Tag Archives: CRM

Nonprofit Radio for August 16, 2019: Manage Your Programs With A CRM & Co-Learning For Your Programs

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My Guests:

Jake Grinsted, Leah Kopperman, Kai Williams & Medha Nanal: Manage Your Programs With A CRM
The right CRM can help you run day-to-day program operations: track client relationships and outcomes; host trainings; manage certifications; organize transportation; and more. Our panel was recorded at 19NTC and they’re Jake Grinsted from Simply 360; Leah Kopperman with Keshet; Kai Williams at The International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council; and Medha Nanal from Top Cloud Consulting.





Debra Askanase, LaCheka Phillips, & Kevin Martone: Co-Learning For Your Programs
This 19NTC panel encourages you to look at a more collaborative training culture, which pushes the bounds of who is the educator. They’re Debra Askanase at Oracle NetSuite Social Impact; LaCheka Phillips with TechSoup/NGOsource and Kevin Martone from JCamp180.





Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Nonprofit Radio for July 12, 2019: Your Crowdfunding Campaign & CRM + Email + Website

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WegnerCPAs. Guiding you. Beyond the numbers.

Cougar Mountain Software: Denali Fund is their complete accounting solution, made for nonprofits. Claim your free 60-day trial.

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Moshe Hecht: Your Crowdfunding Campaign
Most crowdfunding campaigns don’t make goal. What are the common denominators for failure and success? Moshe Hecht answers all, and shares his organizational readiness checklist to get you prepared for success. He’s chief innovation officer at Charidy. (Recorded at 19NTC)





Isaac Shalev: CRM + Email + Website
You’ll learn more about the people engaging with you when your CRM, email and website are integrated and talking to each other. We’ll leave you with a plan for getting these technologies together. My guest, also from 19NTC, is Isaac Shalev, president of Sage70.





Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Nonprofit Radio for March 30, 2018: Financial Management Software

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Karen Graham & Andy Wolber: The Donor Journey

Nonprofit Radio is never boring. Even talking about financial management software. Listen as Idealware publicly releases their guide to selecting the right software for your nonprofit. It’s important! Trust me, Karen Graham and Andy Wolber will convince you.

 

 

 

 

 


Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

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Transcript for 383_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20180330.mp3

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me, i’d be thrown into assaf ago dahna if you made me speak the words you missed today’s show financial management software don’t leave you do need this non-profit radio is never boring even talking about financial management software. Listen as idealware publicly releases their guide to selecting the right software for your non-profit it’s important, trust me, karen graham and andy wolber will convince you i’m tony steak, too. You will join this club we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tell us i’m excited because we got an announcement here with public announcement, but s so i’m gonna introduce the people we’re going to be making. The announcement first is karen graham. She is a sought after speaker, trainer, writer and consultant with expertise in technology, leadership and innovation non-profit software and digital strategy. As ideal wears executive director she leads a team of researchers, presenters and writers who create technology. Information. Resource is that helped non-profits put their visions into action. She’s at karin t graham idealware is at idealware and idealware dot or ge. Andy wolber he’s, a technology consultant to non-profits. He teaches a course on non-profit and government technology for grand valley state university, and writes about google in the enterprise for tech republic. He’s at a wolber and wolber works. Dotcom welcome count graham and andy wolber. Thanks, tony. Somebody talk, please. Okay, okay, you’re welcome. My pleasure. I’m glad to have you thankyou for, ah, reserving your public announcement. Karen graham of this report for non-profit radio. What is the report? You don’t need to be back on the show and have a chance to talk about something brand new. Awesome, yes, i can hear the excitement in your voice. You might try to kick it up a little level a little notch, but i hear it, i hear it. What is the report, what we publicly announcing? This one is a guide to financial management software for nonprofit organizations, and i would say this is particularly suited for small and medium sized organizations, and i know that your audience, too so that’s great, absolutely and and for anybody who is thinking that maybe their current accounting software or financial management system is not meeting all of their needs, and they want to explore other options. Okay, we’re going to talk about cem ways you might you might know that some symptoms of that and, uh, we’ll go through the report and all let’s see let’s ah, quaint people remind, i love idealware i love the mission of idealware, but you will articulate it better than i i don’t know if you’ll be as enthusiastic as i am. I hope you will be remind people what does idealware all about? Well, i am the executive director, so you would hope that i would have enthusiasm. I am hopeful my fingers across. Yes. You know, tony, i thought it was it was kind of funny to me that you said the show was never boring even when we’re talking about financial management software. Because when you invited me, i was thinking like, i’m excited to be on the show, but you probably picked me to be on the most boring show of the whole year, so let’s, try not to make it that way. I’m excited about all of the work that idealware does even when we’re talking about a topic like this, which is maybe not the most sexy topic, i guess hyre i’m excited about all of our work because it helps people solve real problems and helps them operate there non-profit organization better and make good decisions without as much stress and uncertainty. We exist to help those people who work in non-profits who are responsible for technology decisions, but they don’t necessarily have a technology background, and so they need resource is they’re smart people, they need knowledge resource is to help them think through their decisions and help them understand trends and best practices. And so we do impartial research on technology topics, and then we publish guides and workbooks software reviews, and we also do a lot of online training and in person workshop to help people to make those kinds of decisions with confidence. Now i have ah first became aware of idealware years ago, before i knew there was a karen t graham affiliated with it because people used to recommend what the the the fund-raising data but was fund-raising database report was it was the c r m or was it? Fund-raising nancy now, with so many years ago, i can’t remember, but but it had to be good. Do you remember the official title of the one i think you’re talking about? The official title is the consumer’s guide to low cost donor-centric sustainers okay. And it’s now in a fourth edition, i believe, and that’s been one of our most downloaded publications ever. We used to yeah, people would refer it to refer me to it. Oh, and andy wolber don’t worry, we’re gonna get to you. I don’t want you not forgotten, andy, you’re there. I just want to get through some important info about idealware yeah, people used to just mention it to me. Like i said before, i even knew what idealware was, and so i went and looked at this report, and this is an analogy i make sometimes sometimes you don’t seem thrilled with this analogy that i make to consumers union, but to me, you’re the consumers union, their consumer reports that consumers union is the non-profit that creates consume reports of non-profit technology, you did these unbiased reports, we’re going to talk about how you make sure they’re unbiased and you now in that one, you had the that’s colorful side by side chart with features and, you know, dots for which features existed in different ones, and to me it was the consumer reports of non-profit software, i loved it, and we were i’ve been talking about idealware on non-profit radio on and off, and even before i like i said before, i knew there was a guarantee. Graham so, um, i don’t know how do you feel about that? Consumer reports analogy, i some people have compared us to consumers union, others have compared idealware to gartner or forest are sabat that doesn’t really bother me on a good okay. What? Okay, yeah, i think that all of those organisations are well respected and trusted. No resource is. And in a way, i’m proud that idealware would be in that same category. Yeah. Okay. Excellent. I that’s why i put you there an objective objective research. Okay, we have just like a minute and a half before break. Oh, andy, we’re going to bring you in after this first break. Karen, how do you assure us in a minute and a half that this report is unbiased? Objective, not sponsor driven, etcetera. I’m glad you asked about that. We have a very strict firewall between our editorial process and our funding process. And so on this report, i actually worked on securing funding through sponsorships. And the student reader might notice that the sponsors have products that are covered in this guide. But let me ask andy. Andy, did you know who the sponsors were? While you were working on the research? I had no clue. Better say no. Good. Okay, now, karen did karen, did he have an important thing? Did he ever ask? Did he ask? No. Okay, i want make sure he’s honestly could have one of our partners on the report. And important partner was fm a, and they contributed a lot of expertise to this report. And at one point there executive director asked me who the sponsors were and i said, you know ill that i can’t tell you who they are because i don’t want to buy us the research. So that’s something that we take very seriously. We we don’t let any of the people involved in the research team know who the sponsors were until the report is ready to publish. And it’s it’s, not a pay to play situation. Our sponsors are all very dedicated, teo. Advance. Acknowledge in the sector to helping people make better software choices, whether they choose their software or somebody else’s, they want to get fit. And so they committed teo funding this and letting us publish something that they got no approval over. All right. And he got to say two words before this break. He said no and know so thank you for that big contribution, andy. You’re done now know that’s not true, but we do have to take the next. Okay. Yes, we got to take a break. Pursuant. The current paper is demystifying the donor journey. You heard me last week talking to taylor shanklin about this. You heard it. So why do you need this thinking paper? You don’t. But for someone who did not hear the show, their life is incomplete. I might i would go. So far as to say, even inadequate without it, send them to the paper, then send them to last week’s show for more detail. Their life will be complete. You will be a hero. It’s demystifying the donor journey it’s at tony dot m a slash pursuant radio. Now back to financial management software guide. Okay, andy wolber let’s bring you in your research around this thing. What what was the research process? How’d you go about creating this guide for us? Well, we looked at the start of the existing i’ve worked with la non-profits so i brought a lot of personal expertise to talk to some folks, various organizations that i’ve worked with over the years that deal with various financial packages and also spoke a little with some of the effort make insulting who are working with of wide variety non-profits and systems as well. So we looked at the landscape. What is this fm a karen mentioned it also does that stand for something anymore? Or are they like aarp? That doesn’t want to be the association american, retired persons or nail that doesn’t no longer wants to be the national abortion rights action league, are they? Just an fm a or do they stand for something? Yeah, karen, i’ll defer the u n if that’s an acronym or not, do they stand for anything? I mean, i know the stand for things, but what do their letters stand for anything or now? Yeah, i think it started as a financial management, so see it? I don’t want to say the wrong big radio, though, but they just go buy fm now and it’s an organization, a nonprofit organization that provides consulting and outsource services for accounting and financial management for other non-profit okay. And what was their role in this guide? Andy, do you want to talk about that? Sure. Well, what was interesting is so they don’t have had initial ideas and an initial list. Sorry. Hey, hear the systems we see and use a lot. I looked at that and said, well, you know, what about these? And so we widen that search and scope a little bit. Andi also did some tweaking updating of some of the so our features and focus. So we brought into the look a little, uh, based on just serve other packages that are also used in the field there’s a wide variety of solutions, there’s several things that vendors have moved systems from, you know, being client server only to cloud. And so that there’s been a lot of movement in this in this sector in this industry, so we started with some of their their ideas and their list way expanded added to it, andy i well, since, since karen says she doesn’t exactly mind my analogy to consumers, union consumers report which not exactly overwhelming endorsement, but i’ll take it from her. I analogize this to their toe a buyer’s guide. It looks like a buyer’s reads like a buyer’s guide to me. Um, now, um, let’s, let’s define a little deeper. What what it is we’re buying. What? What characterizes a financial management system? What, what? What pieces doesn’t have that that we’re thinking about possibly changing if we’re reading this buyer’s guide? Sure. Well, at the core of this is a system that helps you, you know, understand helps a non-profit major, typically an executive director and other leadership, both staff in volunteer understand where the organization is financially and so in a small organization, that sort of thing typically sits at a no it’s core it’s the, you know, accounting system. So you’re just you’re really trying to understand what you’re where your financial position is, okay in the twenty, thirty years ago term aarp enterprise resource planning no, sir. Came in tow scope. Um, and those sorts of systems started to heimans allow an organisation to track financial for on the financial implications ations of both products and people activities throughout the organization. So as you get bigger, your financial system starts saying compass mohr system and i saw a sort of a spectrum of you may even mention this in the report. Maybe that’s that’s where i got the idea from spectrum. So there was simple. And then there was a little more sophisticated in the middle. And then there was the aarp. These enterprise resource planning systems eyes that affair. Is that a fair assessment of what the spectrum looks like? Yeah. And and what that is and what’s interesting about it is that unlike in some organizations where you start and delineate by the size of an organization, you know, a small organization has a small system in the financial management world. It’s a little different. It’s more. Related to how complex or how many things you need to track. So a small organisation with a large number of funders and a large number of programs actually has a pretty complex accounting and financial management, so they may actually need amore complex system than a organization has a very large budget but really has only two or three programs and two or three funders, okay, makes a lot of sense. All right. Um, uh, charity graham let’s bring you back. We were going to say this several times throughout the show, but where can people get this report? Oh, great question if you if you’re listening to the show live, if you go teo idealware dot or ge it’s right on our home page, it won’t stay there forever. So if you’re somebody listening to the podcast later in time, you could just go on idealware dot or ge and there’s a search box on the home page. If you just type in the word financial, you’ll get right to it. And then you can enter your name and email it just to register and then it’s a free download. You’ll get a pdf document. Okay, thank you. For not asking. Name, address, organization, title budget size, annual revenue, zip code. You know, etcetera. Thank you, it’s. Very. You know, i bristle at those things. So it’s. Well, we personally asked a few of those things, but they’re optional. And that just helps us to make sure that what we’re sending two people is relevant in the future. If they option to receive our e mails. But that’s also optional. Okay, i guess when i saw the form, i realized they were optional. Okay, very good. Thank you for that. Um okay, let’s. Stay with you. Karen, how might we know? What is some symptoms now? The report goes through, like six or six things or something. That’s not just touch on what some symptoms might be for needing a new financial system like, you know, just two or three. And these people are gonna get the reporter. I mean, it’s free for god’s sake. So they’re going to get it so that’s, just touch on a couple, right? I’ll try not to overwhelm me with too much detail here. One thing that stood out to me here is when people are manually entering data into two different systems that could be a sign that maybe their current accounting system is not really meeting their needs, or maybe maybe it actually could meet their needs if they invested in some kind of integration. Now what’s an example of that together, like what kind of what kind of data would you be putting in two different systems? Give me a concrete example, the thing that i see most often, and maybe andy wants to chime in on this, too, but i think i see most often is donordigital so it used to be that before there were good donor-centric was tracked in the organization’s accounting system, and so they would enter individual donors and the date that they gave and the amount that they gave, and it was any kind of restricted gift, you know, they’d have information about that, and so that have it has stuck with a lot of organizations, and now they’re entering it both in their donor-centric and there financial management system. Now you could argue that that’s not actually necessary at all tohave the data in both places, at least that level of detail but but if you do want to still have that data in both places. Now, there are ways, depending on what system you choose and what kind of integration you have to automate that a little bit more, so that you’re not manually king in all those details in two different places. Ok, ok, give us another common symptom. You see, um, and if you want to chime in on that sure. Well, i mean just it. And answer a little of what you said. The payrolls, another area that you people manually receiving data. But another symptom is things like a lot of spreadsheets. It’s, an organization is using a spreadsheet to track the status of all their different grant. That is often a sign that they could benefit potentially from a different financial management system is actually designed toe help them, uh, track their spending. And for all of those distinct grant that’s one of things that the organizations really struggle with when they work with a system that can only handle a couple of coding fields that really can’t scale teo do sort of comprehensive fund accounting to track the the grand program number of grant programs that they actually have. So that’s another for the another sign that the symptom is, you see lots of spread sheets on the side being used to say, ok, and program a we’ve spent this much program would be sametz spent this much in that has it can be hard to tease out from actual financial statement s oh, man that’s good indicator. So you mean so for each different program? Or fund? They have a different spreadsheet. Is that what you’re describing? Yep. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We used to hear about that from from one of our sponsors. Um, which is mentioned in aa? It’s just mentioned you mentioned apple o’s in aa a sidebar. They used to make that point about that being not so that they’re not being efficient. Okay, the guide also talks about access from from certain devices. Like if you have to go to a dedicated computer thio dua certain task right? To say a little more about that, andy sure, that that’s really the root of a lot of organizations that used to see they’re still working with insults or a client server or single system software? Um, yeah, that that’s still out there still widely used, but that can be difficult for folks to actually get access to information. They have to be on site on the local network to get information. Or they have to do the shenanigans of a remote log in or remote desktop and looking at a screen through ah, some sort of ritual display system or in their face so that many systems have transitions from needing to. Be on site thai there being hosted or being in the clouds. Some of the newer systems are sort of cloud natives and work really well and some older systems to our club native. But work really well, either within in a browser and also some of them support apse on mobile devices. So that’s, another sign is if you really do need more multiple people to access data easily from different locations. You start toe look in a new system, karen. A few years ago, it ntcdinosaur i captured an excellent panel interview. That was, in fact, it had someone who i think is an advisor to robert winer. Is he c an advisor for you on some? Yes, he has. He has been a subject matter expert for some of our research in this. Okay. And he’s also been a speaker on some of our webinars. Okay, excellent. Yeah. I thought i remembered an affiliation, so he was one of three or four on the panel and the this is what i love about ntc. I mean, the panel was devoted to this niche topic of maybe you’re blaming technology when people and or processes are the problem. So with that leading, you know, there might be a problem other than your financial management system in your non-profit can you can you talk about that? Yeah, absolutely. But i might rephrase that to say almost certainly you’re blaming technology when people in processes are at least part of the problem. So yeah, let’s not overlook that. One thing that i know we found in the research was that option. Somebody will think that she needs a new financial management after a package when really, what she needs is to revise her chart of account. And so what? The chart of accounts is for people who thank you for keeping him. Thank you for keeping yourself out of jargon. Jail. Yeah, yeah. That’s, that’s just the kind of the master list of categories of revenue and expenses. So you use that in financial reporting, you use that to connect every transaction that you enter in your accounting system, teo, to the overall categories. And so is you. Find yourself explaining coding to your board of directors when you’re presenting the financial reports to them. If you find dafs miscoding things when they’re you know, writing down what something should be charged, too on their expense report or their recedes, then that’s probably a sign that you need to review your chart of accounts and think about revising that first before you start looking dafs software change, okay, can you give us another example? I know that could be hundreds of things, but another there’s another example, come to mind of where the person or the processes that there were people there, the processes are the are the trouble anything else? Well, another example that i see all the time, which is not limited financial management software, there are all sorts of technology is user adoption issues, and, you know, sometimes people aren’t really getting the full value out of the software because they haven’t done the training, they haven’t customised the settings to fit their needs, things like that so that’s important, too. Okay, and you work with a lot of non-profits and karen didn’t ask you to chime in this time. By the way, karen, if you say the word chime again, i’m cutting off your mic. So you got to find another word. You said it twice, china’s twice. Now that’s enough! So if you you have to find another word, you have to find another word to invite andy, i’ll goto with the saurus or something while i’m talking. Andy, another word to invite andi, teo contribute, but you can’t use that either, because i just did to something that you may have said or add on, you can’t use that either a andy, you work with a lot of non-profits do you see? What were some symptoms? You see where people, about your you’re in a difficult position of having to say it’s, not really technology it’s you. But you know what are some other symptoms? You see where people are blaming technology erroneously? Well, i think i found the sea. It was people were repeating a process that air doing a process in a way that is no longer optimal it’s sort of a habit that folks have gotten into that can be done more efficiently. So i think of things way report we mentioned something like expensive fi, which helps people track expenses, and so the you were tools. Now, it’s an app on your phone to take a photo of an expense report you can start to capture data that way the older way, you know, taking the stuffing the receipt into a folder or into your bag, and then digging it out once a month and going through the grueling process of no king in the details is a process that doesn’t have to happen. So for my perspective, i see people missing that chance to take advantage of some of the newer tools that left the more differently. And since many folks they’re carrying around, you know a phone that has a camera on it. Let’s, let’s, use that camera in a useful way to save the taiping time. Yeah, people just don’t know. So that’s. Why this buyer’s guide, my phrase, is it’s my show so that’s it that’s, the explanation that’s. Why this buyer’s guide is so valuable because it opens you up to things, you know, you see things that you’re doing manually, that you don’t need to anymore, you can be questioned, your processes that that’s important, right? Yeah, i did, and i think that’s actually hoping way. Think, yeah, has folks get a new system and explore what system will work for them? That’s a prime time to look, look at your processes, do some process mapping, which i find a fun exercise of, you know, working on a a dry erase board with lots of markers and post it notes and things to sort of figure out who’s doing what win in this process. How can we redesign this so that we’re doing less work, and we’re getting the information we need quicker. Okay, that’s, an excellent leading to what i actually want to talk about next, which was how to get into selecting a new system. Um, who’s, uh, because because workflows, you know, mapping your workflows is a part of that. Who wants to speak to that? Most eloquently, i’ll let you decide amongst yourself. Okay. That’s. That’s. Good. So i’m gonna point. Parenti graham okay. Congratulations. With democracy of two eyes is frozen. Frances. No wonder we have trouble united states. Fifty million. Okay, that gets it in the report that there may be drilled down on one or two that i think are important way. Ok? Yeah, we’ll stay. We’re not goingto yeah, we’re not gonna talk about all the way can’t do that. I tell you what, i’ll let you let you think about thea the couple i’ll walk through the first one or two and then you can mention one or two that are important to you. And you can give some thought to that while we take this break bradunas cps, they’ve got an archive webinar that may pique your interest. Prepare your nine ninety for success. If you are one of the fortunate organizations that delights in completing the full nine ninety. Not that sissy easy or the end postcard, but the full then you want to listen to wagner’s advice? The webinar includes common mistakes and most damaging mistakes. Obviously the ones you mostly want to avoid. It’s all at wagner cpas dot com click resource is than webinars now time for tony’s. Take two. You will join this club. I joined about six months ago. It’s the, uh, it’s the dead parents club. And i have found that people who have lost parents, i know it. This is there’s a bond there’s an empathy and an understanding that i did not have before i lost my mom last october. And now when i talk to people who are in the club, um, i feel it, you know, and i realized that i just never really understood the magnitude of it. Of course, you know, you heal over time and you learn to accommodate and accept over time. But i just it’s become apparent to me over these five months. So november, december, jerry fremery much, five, six months that the people who have lost a parent, they just get it at a level that all the rest don’t. And yeah, i just became very clear to me while i was having a chat with a friend who had lost a father three years ago. So you’ll join the club and i hope it’s many years before you do my video on this. Is that tony martignetti dot? Com now let us return teo karen graham and andy wolber for idealware is release of when i called buyer’s guide selecting financial management software for your for your non-profit karin t graham is executive director of idealware and andy wolber is a technology consultant to non-profits ok, karen, you did your homework for ah, for that time. Okay, cool. Thank you. So talk about all this. We’re not doing all that now. I told you, we’re not doing what we’re not doing, all these people going to get the report and it’s important to put this in context. So we have thirty steps that happened before you even start looking at potential solutions. Okay, that is step for the first three are about getting the right people at the table and making sure that you understand your current situation you needs and requirements before you start looking at software options. Okay? And then there was the work of a mistake that i think a lot of people make they jump right into looking at the products, and then they become very oriented toward which product has the coolest bells and whistles. And they’re not thinking about which product is. The best fit for our needs? Yes, they’re not aligning, right, right. That is critical. So you’ve got to do your research up front before you start looking at packages and getting demos and, you know, being wooed by sales people. Um, andy, that was a very good overview. Thank you, karen. Okay, and you’re gonna get people are gonna get the report for god’s sake. They’re gonna goto idealware dot or ge it’s either gonna be on the home page or they’re going to go to go the search box and search the word financial it’s free for pizza. Just get it, andy let’s, go back to the workflows how does how does mapping workflows relate to your your search for a new financial management system? Well, i think it really is about that time both the folks who need operational data and the folks needs or decision making data and looking at how information’s getting into your system and then coming out on a recording size. So on the input side, things like you’re tracking expenses, you know, if we can simplify that process that’s fantastic if we can simplify payroll so we’re not recoding that each time. I go in and be properly allocated. That’s. Fantastic. If we can pull donordigital into the system in appropriate ways appropriate permission that’s useful. And then on the reporting side can the program majors the staff get the information they need? The board have the ability to look at information. How rapidly does that cycle time occurred? You are bored still dealing with princessa reports air they logging in and looking how our systems, howard decisions about financial matters being tracked and recorded or discuss um that’s where process mapping comes into play and that’s why it’s so important to get all the people who touched the different aspects of that process involved in the selection. And then? And then, as you’re mapping what happens, you see gaps where technology can fill in or what? How does it contribute to the the well with the report identifies as the next step which is starting to look at software solutions. How does mapping relate to the software you identify? Pain point. Okay. Okay. So process mapping is is what are we spending a ton of time on that? Yeah. It’s really painful. So things like we’re spending x amount of time. You know, every month, every year, doing program allocations were spending way too much time trying to understand or put together a report for a donor, our thunder, in order to appropriately say, here’s, how we spent your dollars sort, that sort of fiduciary responsibility grant recipient has so it’s it’s that piece where you’re saying, you know, we’re burning a lot of staff time and effort on this. How do we start to fix that? And looking at then what? You know, what does that make? What if we were to alleviate that peace? If we automate payroll, if we automate expense tracking, if we automate or streamline different processes? Um what? What benefit have what does that free up that let’s? Just start to think about other things. Aunt checker, tackle other challenges. You okay? So i i understand now. Thank you. You see, this workflows on the on the board and you nine people are involved in it, and it takes weeks to produce. And you know that that kind of a pain point. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Cool. Alright, now. Something interesting? No, no. Shutter mike off. No, you cannot. I said you cannot use that word. Again, i don’t want to hear it. Yes, you can. You can you can mention something related. Please, please do i will another way. That process mapping can be helpful is to prevent you from replicating a bad process in a new system. So as an example, let’s say you map out this process and you get to a step where mary makes a photocopy of the expense report and filed it in a certain place in the basement, right? And when you’re doing the process mapping, you can ask the question, why did she do that? Why is that necessary? And you might find out that there’s really no reason to do that anymore. Maybe there was five years ago, but now it’s not anymore necessary. So then you won’t look for software package that makes that process easier. You’re just goingto eliminate that. Ok, ok, i’m giving you a time out because you use the word chime when i admonished you. Not too. So i’m going to andy. I was going to ask you this question i was going to, but now i’m not you’re in time out. Um okay, andy a cz you’re considering these systems and something new and how it relates to what you were existing systems are. The report makes clear that they don’t always all play well together. And yeah, and you’re not going to talk to me because i put karen in time out, so you’re not going to speak to me. Is that what is that? What i’m hearing? You know, you can hear me. All right? I hear you. Fine. Yeah. Ok. You’re not punishing me because i will just shut the show down. It’s, over it’s over. Okay, i’ll just start reading. I’ll just read. I’ll just read the guy that people don’t have to download. I’ll just start reading. We’ll put people to sleep. Okay, theo audiobook that’s, right? Ah, produced your notebook. Yeah. Then i’ll have. Then i’ve licensing troubles with either way. I don’t get involved with those people on illegal and in a legal battle anyway. All right, so you need to think about compatibility, right? Yeah. You need to look at what? What other system needs to speak to? So there’s a couple things that when you’re looking for a new system that may naturally walk you down a particular path, and sometimes it is simplest to stick with with with a vendor that makes him the adjacent product. So something that already is designed to track your donor? Management, maybe they also make a financial package, right? Like blackbaud damn well blackbaud sounds force is one of the classics are examples of this with things like razor’s edge, which is the donor management system covered in the other guide you mentioned, and then financial edge next-gen which is designed to work well with its other tools. So if you’re in a circumstance where you have ah, don’t particular donorsearch system it naturally lends itself to work well with another that’s that’s a particular case, thie other is some systems that you may be dealing with, where you’re dealing with a system installed on server many vendors that used to offer those now offer a posted or cloudy alternative, so it may be that you can stick with the system from the same the same similar software you’re familiar with, but a different package or solution from that vendor that gives you a little more flexibility and ability to access data. But you i think that the report says you just want this to be one factor, right? You don’t want to go, okay? We have sales force for constituent relationship management, so we’re going to do sales force. For financial management, and we’re not going to look at anything else. You don’t want that to you. I want to go that way either, right, right. It should be a just simply be a factor that as a system for consideration to your list, okay, you really have to consider a much broader range of things, okay, i understand. All right, i just, you know, you don’t just automatically go now. What about help with financial enough, with the transition once we’ve selected, ah, vendor, can we reasonably ask for help with the data migration? Is that a fair game? That will depend to some extent on the coolest the system you’re moving toward most of the as you basically is. You get larger in scale and the price point the ladder. Um, you do have the ability to get vendors. They are familiar and can help you move data from one system to another. In other cases that you know what you’re you’re a very small sort of grassroots agency, and you’re just using your going from track and stuff and excel or just your bank account statements to something, you’re less likely to be able to get that help. But often you can turn to a you know, turning your accountant turn to a professional firm that can help you with that transition is you get a little larger. Okay. Okay, karen, you’re you’re aah! All right, you’re out. Um, let’s, talk about the so the this transition, the when is the good time to make the transition? What this this whole transition process is going to look like from from our existing to our new financial management system. Most of the people that we talk to as experts for this report suggested that it’s best to do it at the beginning of a new fiscal year. And but that also might mean that you will be running the new system in the old system and parallel for a little while as a way of testing to make sure that everything’s working correctly. And they also suggested that an organization should plan maybe three to six months lead time before they’re cut over date for the transition time period. So it’s going to take awhile to train the users, make sure that everything is configured correctly and test everything running parallel. That that sounds like that’s. A pretty time intensive deal is running two systems parallel. Well, it is, but your financial data is pretty important that it’s accurate. So many organizations will decide that it’s worthwhile to do the extra effort of double entry to have the confidence that it’s absolutely accurate. Okay, okay, i see, and how long would you do that? I think that varies. You’d have to evaluate, you know, how important is it to do a really thorough test? How much work is it for me? You know, if i was to do this, that idealware i would probably do it for a couple of days. Honestly, they’re pretty simple. And the stakes are fairly low for us. But if i were, say, the humane society of the united states, i might plan a little more than a few days. Okay. Yeah, you were alright. So all right, just gonna value on complexity. Which andy is a point that andy made earlier too. Okay, we have ah, fair amount of time left. I feel like we should get to the gate to the landscape of of systems, can you? Karen, can you? Ah found now i’m feeling bad that i put in time out. I never i don’t think i’ve done that before. I get to first, but so i’m now i’m feeling bad about it. So i’m sorry i made i made do it may do it again. I’m not sorry enough to not never do it again but so don’t transgress. But are you can you talk? About sort of an overview of the of the marketplace before we get to a couple of specifics. Sure, there are a number of systems that we covered that have all of the core functionality that you would expect in a financial management system, including the general ledger like, which is just tracking all the transactions in and out expenses, and, um, and income and things like that. It will also generate the three most important standard report that people use for financial management, the balance sheets, the income statements and the cash flow statement of cash flow or cash flow projection. And so you know, those all those systems that are in the first section of system listings in the guide i’ll have that basic functionality. Some of them also have some additional features that are a little more advanced, like payroll management, yeah, budget planning, more advanced reporting and coding and allocations. And and then there also is a group of tools that we thought was worth covering, even though they’re not specifically for nonprofit organizations and those are either low cost or even free services that are fairly simple, and they’re designed more for like freelancers entrepreneurs. Small businesses, but some non-profits have actually found them to be a good fit for their needs, too. We’re going, we’re going to move to a break, andy, while while we take this short break, i’m going to ask you, teo, reflect upon what karen just said and see if there’s anything additional you’d like to add. Gotta take a break, tell us credit card payment processing this’s, a long tale of passive revenue for you, you encourage local businesses that are already supporting you. Most likely they take credit cards. Will they move their payment processing over? To tell those tell us, of course, will look at their existing payment structure and give them a proposal with most likely lower fees. When they make the change to tell us you the non-profit earned fifty percent of telesis revenue for every single transaction indefinitely. Check out the video it’s at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us for this long tale of passive revenue. Now let’s, go back to financial management software, the financial management software show with cannon andy, andy, anything that your reflection leads you to want teo add into what karen said. Sure, the thing that most notable for me in that first category of of system is that there’s a whole set of things that have moved from being client server to now hosted or or clouds those very clear distinctions answer how their systems are being offered. The he think in all of the systems to also keep an eye out for is the cloud. They are more advanced, incapable of supporting any sort of eyes, eyes. Something to look for. An fbi application programming interface for flandez programme and solution exchange information with programs and applications from other vendors. Okay, so a key thing to look for it, you know, what is this the vendor list that the system’s integrate with? Some of them have taken the step of having things like a sore. Where you concerned? Browsing looked for all the integration. So i’m looking for a payroll system. Hey, guess what? It works with the payroll vendor we used so that’s that so that sort of thing is, this is a first big step in that in that larger service system solution category. Ok. Thank you. Um, so let’s in our in our closing several minutes or so, let’s, let’s, talk about some of the individual ones. Now, karen, i do want to ask you how come in this report, uh, buyer’s guide. There isn’t. There isn’t one of those colorful charts like i was describing for the c r m that first brought me to idealware four, five years ago. How come, how come not not in this report? This is the first time that idealware has really covered this topic in death, and so we wanted to start by just looking at the landscape and helping people understand what their choices are and what the major points of differentiation might be that’s not to say that we won’t do something more in depth at some point. If there turns out to be a demand for that, then we well could. But this actually does use a little different methodology than a consumer report where we’re doing demonstrations of all the tools were working with the vendors to verify that all the information we write about them is factually accurate. That sort of thing is a little more involved process that we didn’t undertake at this first past looking at financial management system. So so the argast so this is the inaugural financial management system report, and you chose to publicly release it on non-profit radio. This is this is a double a double big deal. It’s your first one. No. Yeah. Listen to that enthusiasm, boy. Oh, knocking me over. Oh, my god. All right. Um ok. I get enough enthusiasm for all three of us. So that’s all right? I’m amusing myself. Um, okay. Eso are we comfortable naming a couple of these? You got you got abila financial edge. And you mentioned that one financial force fundez easy. How should we what’s the best way? I mean, i didn’t. I guess i didn’t really want to go. I item by item one of the features of this feature that you know, but how should we, uh, andy, i’ll defer to you, you’re you deal with a lot of zsystems what’s the best way to get people acquainted with the, uh, the landscape across these that we haven’t already done. Yeah, well, you know, actually using approach it took when it first started trying to sort some of this out. Okay, i think there’s some logical appearing now say that they can’t be used with other systems. Um, i think the system i’m most likely to see organizations use is some variant of quickbooks, right, that’s, that’s widely used. So i think you set that aside, start to look at them. You zsystems probably naturally lend themselves working well with partner systems. So things like financial force, which would pair very well with sales force because built on the same core platform, microsoft dynamics, which would be very strong if you’re working in that saying microsoft, cr, m, world and zsystems and then in financial edge obviously pairs well with blackbaud so those those sorts of solutions, you know, and then you start to move more towards a range of other things, you know, things like sage intact, which is many people will be familiar with because of it. That’s one of the solutions that epa dot com has endorsed on dh support so things like like that’s, our cloud solution would be familiar to many accountants across the country that would be likely helping organization. And then you move to the smaller set of all the smaller, more start up sorry they’re beyond start up in a blanket, but they’re still in there not not as wide market traction necessarily as those others and what gets interesting. They’re sort of the small business models pricing model, very significantly pricing it’s, less expensive. Well, it’s, just it gets interesting. So you look at things like freshbooks which is structured in charging by the number of clients you were tracking in the system. Kiss you, which is adding bundling for a fee of software plus access to a bookkeeper on a monthly basis. Uh, wave which is free, but charges based on a percentage of your financial transaction xero which is cloud native and really focused on building out a lot of connection. Tow hundred, the different system. So those types of zoho books which is more of a part of a bundle there, wanting to sell your old bundle of things that make your needs what’s interesting to meet is how the larger, more established, typical systems are embracing cloud and starting trying to evolve to add connections. And the smaller one are tryingto rapidly iterated in order to serve, to provide more robust services and more built out systems. So that’s for me that’s. What makes this landscape interesting? Yeah. Okay, so the bigger ones are trying to collaborate more. And the smaller ones are trying to get be more robust in and more comprehensive. Exactly. And the rate at which each does does those things is really fascinating. There’s a there’s. A sidebar. I think it is on on pricing. Some. Some are very upfront. And the prices are clear on the on their site. And you can get started immediately with a credit card and then others. They’re not transparent about pricing. Yeah, this is something i find very interesting, i think. It’s symptomatic of a little bit of serve. What? I reference just just now, the traditional vendors have been able to do the survey, you know, call us, you know, sort of the please inquire if you’re interested. If you have to ask about price, you’re not really, you know, it’s, you know, you need to be large enough to be able to have that conversation. Um, the more forward thinking cloud native systems and some are evolving rapidly are more transparent about providing price. There is a bit of irony and some of this i find that some of these vendors will you look at their sight and you say, oh, you know, buy-in pricing financial information is very important, and then you look for pricing and you can’t find it, which seems to be a very critical piece of priceless information to me. Yeah, all right. So some just they want to have a conference. They want to have a conversation with a sales person, in some cases in others it’s also about making sure the system system and really meet your needs so it can be for useful and constructive purposes. Not completely unreasonable, but but absolutely but it’s, very interesting, metoo to the vendors. They’re cheating the public pricing and that’s that, well, they still need to have that conversation right. We just have about two minutes left. Karen, how do you feel about systems that are specifically designed for non-profits versus systems that are not like a quick books? You have an opinion on those on that one versus the other. If i were just to be randomly assigned it non-profit and i had to advise them on which three products they should take a look at, um, i might say without knowing anything about them, i made say, let’s, look at three that are built for nonprofit organizations, but but that’s not to say that the ones that are built for kind of general purpose can’t be a good fit. So in some cases, especially where they need, they’re pretty simple. Those can actually be a very affordable and practical option. Okay, okay. Um, let’s see, we just have, like, a minute or so left. Andy, you want to you want to give me a closing thought, andy in ah, in about thirty seconds. We’re lucky to have a lot of options. Understand your need. Oh, and, uh, be open, tio, rethinking how you work and making sure that your financial system is working for you and that you’re not just putting data into the system to create reports. Yes, thank you. I love especially be be willing to rethink that’s. Andy wolber, technology consultant to non-profits he’s at a wolber and wolber works dotcom guarantee. Graham, would you like tio wrap up in about twenty seconds since andy covered that i want to go in a little different direction and say that, you know, every non-profit leader is expected to understand the basics of financial management, like they need to know how to interpret a balance sheet. Um, but there’s not as much of an expectation that they know how to select software and how to get the most out of their software investment, i think that’s something that needs to change, and i hope that by reading this guide that non-profit leaders will be able to acquire some of those skills. All right, get the report for god’s sake idealware dot or ge on the home page or search for the word financial and those closing words from karin t graham, executive director of idealware she’s at guarantee graham idealware is at idealware dot or ge, thanks to you both. Thank you, my pleasure. Next week, a conversation with adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna, slash pursuant to radio weinger cpas, guiding you beyond the numbers when you’re cps, dot com and tell those credit card payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is here is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein of brooklyn. With me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get into thinking. Dahna good duitz are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi. I’m nor ing. Sometimes the potentially ater tune in every tuesday line to ten eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c. Are you feeling unhappy with your body, shape or size? Ever feel out of control with food? I’m elizabeth from nourish the soul, and on the show, you’ll uncover the route to these imbalances and discover a permanent solution. Latto having a healthy relationship to food and your body. Join us every thursday morning at eleven a, m eastern time on talk radio dot. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? 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Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio dunaj n y c. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oh, hyre!

Nonprofit Radio for August 22, 2014: Integrate Social And CRM & Technology And Organizing

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Bryan Giese & Jenn Smith: Integrate Social And CRM 

With Bryan Giese and Jenn Smith at NTC
With Bryan Giese and Jenn Smith at NTC

How do you integrate social media data into your CRM database? What social media data should you preserve? I talked to Bryan Giese, Heller Consulting’s director of marketing, and Jenn Smith, Heller’s vice president of digital agency, at the Nonprofit Technology Conference (NTC).

 

 

 

 Austen Levihn-Coon & Rachel Butler: Technology And Organizing

With Austen Levihn-Coon and Rachel Butler at NTC
With Austen Levihn-Coon and Rachel Butler at NTC

Technology has created opportunities for organizing, but also challenges. Austen Levihn-Coon and Rachel Butler identify the challenges and how to overcome them. They share strategies to deepen engagement beyond petition signing and identify leaders in your community. Austen is chief innovation officer at Fission Strategy and Rachel is campaign representative for the Beyond Oil campaign at Sierra Club. We talked at NTC.

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure pseudo member nous stomach titus if it came within my ken that you missed today’s show integrates social and c r m how do you integrate social media data into your cr m database? What social media data should you preserve? I talked to brian gz heller consulting’s director of marketing, and jen smith heller’s, vice president of digital agency at the non-profit technology conference and t c and technology and organizing technology has created opportunities for organizing but also challenges. Austin levine kun and rachel butler identified the challenges and how to overcome them. The share strategies to deepen engagement beyond petition signing and identify leaders in your community. Austin is chief innovation officer at vision strategy, and rachel is campaign representative for beyond oil at sierra club. We talked at and t c on tony’s take to a new non-profit radio knowledge base sponsored by generosity siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks here’s the first of the two ntcdinosaur views today with brian gz and jen smith welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen we’re at the marriott hotel wardman park in washington, d c and with me are brian gc and jen smith. Brian is director of marketing at heller consulting. Jenn smith is vice president digital agency at heller consulting. Brian jen, welcome, thanks so much. Thank you very much for having i’m glad. Thank you for taking time on a busy conference. You’re workshop topic is bridging the gap between social media and cr m let’s. Make sure everybody’s on the same platform on the c r m of course, constituent relationship management which would be your date abate your software for fund-raising and all things engagement with with your constituents don’t have that right. Yes, that is correct. We’ll have no, i know the acronym, right. Is that how you would? What would define cr m as? Yes, definitely. Serum is, you know, your your underlying systems that keep track of everything that your constituents might do. So you know the best case. Everything is connected with the central point being your actual constituent so you can find out. Everything they do across all of your efforts, whether it’s volunteering or fund-raising or communications, if you can have that all center around that one single constituent it’s a great thing, instead of trying to merge databases and merge content. Okay, and thank you and jen what’s the what is the gap between social and cr? Um, well, you know, i think that socialist still a relatively new it’s, a new endeavor for a lot of organizations not necessarily knew in terms of the content they’re creating, but in terms of how they’re thinking about data, so, you know, you can get a lot of information, you can get a lot of social data out there, but how you tie that back into your serum and what you actually do with that data and how it can change things that your organization, i think it’s still a little bit of a mystery for a lot of organizations, so i think, you know, when you’re thinking about social media, you’re really trying to say here’s, a place where we’re engaging with donors and constituents, um, and we want to make sure that we’re capturing the right data from those engagements in order to really make use of that in your overall marketing and communications strategy with with a donor and constituent does this start with mission? Is that the place to evaluate start with our evaluation of how we’re going to integrate these two doesn’t begin with mission. Yeah, i think it always needs to begin with mission, right? And i think it begins really with with your goals and what you need to do strategically as an organization. So, you know, you need to be thinking about what we want to do with fund-raising what do we want to do with advocacy? How do we want to mobilize people? And those things need to still remain in the core of what you’re thinking about even when you’re talking about social media. Okay on dh how do we start this? The integration between social and r c r m you want to field that one? It’s it’s? It depends upon your organization. I think jen said it just a moment ago is starting off with your goals and what you want to achieve what you want to what type of communication you want tohave with your constituents and another argument. Why? Are we in social? Right where we drink, right? Why are you doing it? Where do you want to reach out to them? Where does your audience live? Are they on twitter on facebook on linked in? Are they just gonna read blog’s? How do you connect in with them? And what do you want them to do? What messages do you want to send them? Once you figure out what messages you want, then you can figure out where’s the best place to put them. And then how do you want them to react to those messages? What actions do you want them to take? And and how do you want them to react back to you? Are you trying to just get more followers? Um, that’s a great thing. But you really want to be able to do something with them once they’re following you. Do you have a conversation? Do they feed information back to you? Do they let you know what’s going on in their world on the front lines of whatever your mission might be. And are you encouraging them to do so? Hopefully, yeah. Back. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully that’s where you really want to? Do you want to create this interactive engagement to make people feel mohr integrated and important in your cause and not just give us money? Give us money? You know, you want them to really feel involved in what you dio and an important part of your mission because they really are, you know, obviously we all know that, but people don’t always feel that way. They give their money, they volunteer, they walk away from it, and then they see something in their e mail or something that comes into their mailbox. And they’re like, oh, i did do this feeling kind of transactional. Yes, not relationship, right? You mentioned. Where are your people? Where are the people? You’re going to be engaging through social. How do we find out where they are? Wei have just sorry you were about poor guy. Took a breath ready to talk and i have more questions. But i’m trying to start a hypothetical spot. Supposed to just have them. Ah, us mail. We just have us mail addresses and an email. I suppose we have those. How do we know what social channels we should be in to be talking? T this? This constituency, i think i think a good way to start off with is but there’s a couple approaches, one of them is to do smaller tests and, you know, if you set up in twitter, you set up in facebook and start reaching out in telling your audience that you’re there. So if you have their email address, you have their direct mail address put those presence is up and say, yes, we do have a twitter account, we do have a facebook account, follow them if you like us and then you’ll start to see one gets a little more traffic than the other, you know, ifyou’re on linked in you’ll see, oh, mohr and more people have us on linked in, so we’ll put more effort there, there’s others there’s tools that are available that let you take your e mail address and it’ll search all the channels and say, yes, this person is on twitter is on facebook is on linked in, and i’ll show you all the accounts that they’re on so you could bring that data back into your cr m and connect that together and that’s a huge help, any tools that you can share that sites you can share that that would enables users non-profits to do that there’s one that directly does that it’s called small act their social profile. They do it. Casey golden, ceo of small act, has been on the show from bb khan. Yes, blackbaud unconference last year, casey well, mabe in two years ago, but i was there two years, but one of those past two years of e become casey casey golden was from small act was on. Yes, they have ah there sweet of tools is great for taking your existing set of data and constituents and connecting that to whatever their social networks might be. Okay, so that’s a great way to come back and say, these people are involved in these networks and they’re active there influencers or they just have an accountant don’t do anything so it’s figuring out where they are and if they participate, if they have a facebook account, it might not really matter if they never really use it. And i believe when casey was on, he was on with someone from blackbaud and i apologized to that someone i don’t remember his name hyre they they had done their homework before coming on the show and actually labelled me a key influence, sir, i think i was just so they get me to air the interview, i think it was heavily overstated. I’m barely a user, and but they were they were very generous, jen. Now, once we know where our constituents are, how do we start? Teo engage and then we’ll talk about putting that together with rcr. Um, yeah, i mean, you know, one thing i want to say just in relation to where people are is i think, you know, a lot of organizations end up feeling like they have to be every place when it comes to social media. So as soon as you know, instagram got big, oh, god, we have to have an instagram account or so we have to have a pinterest account or we have to start to get on snapchat there’s a lot of pressure within social media to kind of be on the next new thing, and i think for non-profits, you know, you’ve got limited resource is limited time it’s difficult to prove for a lot of organizations that the investment is worth it when it comes to social media, and i think there were getting better all the time at ways to do that, but i think, you know, as brian said, i think if you start small and and starting with the big too, starting with facebook and twitter is probably going to be a pretty safe bet for a lot of organizations, and once you do that, you will start to see patterns of, you know what? Like, we really have a lot more engagement on twitter and so maybe that’s really where we want to focus more of our investment on and then, you know, and then i think it’s another really difficult thing for organizations to do is to not just treat it like it’s, another channel to push out information and organizations tend to get really wrapped up in like, this is our agenda, these air our goals, these, you know, this is the program i want to tell everybody about without necessarily really listening to their constituents about really what they want to hear or how they want to engage with you or what kind of lifestyle are they leading, you know? So i think, you know, being able to take some risks about not always having, you know, tweets or facebook post that are, you know, specifically on mission, you know, about the organization about a program, but are really relating to people, you know, it was like, you know, if you love animals, this is probably something else you think would, you know, is great, you know, you should totally watch his video, and it may not be directly related to mission at all, but it helps really build loyalty and social media channels when you when your authentic on dh, when you’re not so focused on this is just a channel for us to push something out. But that it’s a way to start to develop, to weigh engagement, but isn’t that what we do in our offline in our real life? How you interact on facebook or twitter yourself, right? Found i’m walking past a restaurant, i think a friend of mine might like it, you know, you snap a picture and said, right, i read an article thought this might interest you forward it to a friend right now, just talking about essentially right, bringing what are thoughtfulness, right online and into the social network, right it is, and it’s it’s the same conversations you might have in person with someone. So, you know, if you’re sitting there talking to your friend and you only talked about your work and your mission and that’s, all you talked about, they’d stopped listening. They would walk away and they’re tired of hearing of it. But then if you say, hey, i saw these other things and you expand the conversation into the richness of us as humans and have that conversation. Then you have friends that stick around, and they like to talk to you because they get a great wealth of information from you and that you should do the same thing with your social networks and be able to have those engaging conversations and listen back to what they say and be interested in what’s going on in their life right? E-giving anything duitz e-giving, e-giving, ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get a drink. E-giving this’s. The way we’re hosting part of my french new york city guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them, shed their story, join us, pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Dahna listening key, right? Absolutely not. When we have a conversation. It’s two ways and right. So don’t treat our social platforms is just bulletin boards where where we post and you eat and we we’ve had the broadcast model for a very long time what our media has always been and it’s sometimes difficult to transition into an engagement model, but you really do need to do a lot more listening and finding out what what is interesting to them now, how do we start to integrate this with our cr m that’s? Your that’s, your larger your larger topic? What? What? We need to he’s thinking about teo accomplish that. So i think there’s a few things. I mean, we keep talking about listening. You know, i do think it’s worth mentioning that there are social listening tools out there. And the way that you were identified, for example, is a key influencer was probably through one of those tools, right? Maybe through small act, you know of saying, hey, you’re a cute influencer, and it might be because they said let’s look at how many people follow tony and that’s. What made you a key influence or not? Necessarily, that you tweeted all the time, right? So i think on and let’s take a step further and how engaged those heimans retweets, right? Replies so it’s not just the right number of followers, but how engaged are they with your content, right? Right, so, you know, so you really can get a wealth of data from from those types of tools and when you’re doing social listening and i think what is really important is actually to just go back to some fundamentals and say, ok, if i were looking at everybody talks about a three hundred and sixty degree view of a constituent, right? So if that were really possible and what we were looking at, what would be the data that would be really important to see in a donor record when you’re talking about social media and it might be, you know, you might think about your major donors and you might say, you know, what would be really helpful for a major donor staff would be to know how much that major donor is engaging with us on facebook or twitter, right or or if we’re solving kind of a customer service issue, right? So we had somebody complained on our facebook page, and we responded within twenty four hours and here’s how it got resolved. And so that when that major donor stuart, goes ahead and calls that person a week later, they can say we, you know, we heard you had a little problem, but i think it got resolved, how’s everything going right? So i think part of it is really being able to step back and think, ok, what’s the data that’s going to be most useful to bring back into our serum, and that is going to be different for each organization. And i think it really should be driven by your overall organizational goals and strategy on and then you, because the data could just get completely overwhelming. You know, social listening sometimes, like, you know, you can get a lot of noise, so you have to be really strategic in terms of how you set it up and then what you do with that data. Once you get it on dh talking to the different constituents in your organization about what their needs might be, right, what would the major gift officer liketo have? Right as she picks up the phone and great calls calls her boss because the thing that’s probably least useful but is really what is often how we measure success and social is, you know, number of fans or followers, right? And and it is a measure i’m not saying it’s not important, i mean, i think when you’re reporting back to your executive leadership and you’re saying, hey, we grew our facebook page by ten thousand, you know, fans or whatever i mean, that is a way to measure, but i think it’s really going beyond that and saying, ok, so what? What do we do with those ten thousand people like, how can we serve them better? You know how when we make the experience with us a better experience so that they stick with us forever? You know? And and that’s i think those follow-up questions and thinking about your data in terms of those follow-up questions is really, really key, okay? And it’s important to to consider you’re gonna have different segments of your social media audience? You might have a donor who donates lots of money to your organisation never tweets never gets on facebook or anything like that you might have someone who only donates ten dollars, a year to your organization. Who’s a huge advocate for your organization. And you have to deal with each of those differently. You know, they’re they’re both definitely vitally important to your organization, but you have to include them in different ways. You want to make sure that the person who’s an advocate has the information. They need to talk about your organization effectively and then the donor. They want to see a return on what they’ve given you. So they want to see something that’s important about? Yes, i donated this money. What is it doing for the actual recipients? Is it delivering the mission? They want to find out about that and and see that result. So you have to be very conscious of what you’re different. Social media audiences in general are interested in and provide that information to them. And with such a direct channel you khun definitely look through it and find it. Do you have advice on where to preserve this information within a person’s record? I mean, if we start with razor’s edge, are we able to drill into that level of detail? Like, where would you preserve this information that a program officer or a major gift officer might liketo have? Where we where we actually put it in the c r m? Yeah, years ago, i think that’s a little tricky question because it really depends on the serum that the the organization is using, you might end up needing to do some custom fields you might not depending on what you’re using. So so i think part of that is part of figuring out your strategy for how this comes back into your sierra is saying, where is this actually going to live? And how are we going to access it? And how are we going to run reports, you know, or what can we pull? You know, from a tool set that we’re using, you know, that allows us to get kind of a big picture of you, you know, outside of the serum in different tools will let you do different things like, you know, with sales force if you use radiance six and marketing cloud, they’re already set up to connect together and tio integrate all that data, so that process is pretty much established with small ax tools you could do a data upend, and it brings it back in and connects it for you. But then you have to work with your database administrators to figure out okay, what specific fields are going where? What new tables do we need develop? So you kind of have to work that out in very specific cases. There’s not just a, you know, a big old plug in that’s the social media plug in that everybody uses. I’ll also say just not to plug our session too much tomorrow, but we’ll be joined by daniel birgitta from the national wildlife federation, and she actually they went through and did a small act depends on dh, so she’ll be talking a little bit about that experience and what data they were looking at and how that got presented back to the rest of the staff, and i think it would be a really interesting, you know, organization that’s actually executed some of these things and how that’s look, can you can you talk a little about either that example or another client example, where, uh, i’m sort of interested in in the in the what we need to capture? On dh what? The benefit of that was any you share a client story around something, you know i could share. And i could share an example from something that i actually heard it. Dreamforce. So i went to a social listening session at dream force. And and there were some folks there from the gates foundation talking about their social listening program. What is dreamforce, dream forces? Salesforce conference that’s just todo norvig that’s their eyes. Their ntcdinosaur yes. Thank you. So i interrupted, but i like, you know, i don’t know how to be behind, okay, but, you know, but they were talking about how, you know, when they were when the u n general assembly was meeting, that they had specific you no interest in listening for certain terms in order to engage with people around certain issues. And it was it was a really interesting, practical use of social listening. In terms of, you know, one of their goals was to talk a lot about malaria, right? So so they did some social listening around malaria and the u n general assembly. And when those conversations really started a trend and that was, you know, something. People were talking about, you know, the foundation was able to capitalize on that and really focus some of their communications out into the world around what people were already talking about, and tio insert them in a really smart way into the conversation. So i, you know, i think there’s a lot of different examples, but but you do need to be pretty strategic and how you decide, teo, you know, deal with your data, do social listening on dh, what you decide to bring back into your systems and the ultimate benefit of all this is deeper relationships. Is that is that what we’re striving? Well and ultimately conversion, you know, i mean, i think like, it can be difficult to measure conversion sometimes, but i think, you know, in the end, organizations need to raise more money, right? And so how dio how do these better relationships are more engaged or two way engagement? Really, with your donors and constituents help fuel conversion and whether that’s conversion too? You know, we need more activists on the ground, you know, taking action or changing a law, or we need more fund-raising in order that, you know, help establish. Or run a program you know, that is ultimately what organizations need to do is is convert people. So i think, you know, there is a way where you can have a better customer or constituent service type relationship through social media, a better, better engagement, really, in terms of content that you have out there that can result in better conversion down the road, we still have a couple of minutes left. What else? What else do you want to say about this? I haven’t asked you about anything we talked about. You want to go deeper on anything your i know you’re feeling in our workshop. So what do you want to say? One of the big challenges? Whenever we have the discussion with people about this is, you know, exactly like you were asking, what specific data do i add in and it’s, we can’t emphasize enough how important it is to think about what you want to achieve. I know we’ve said that a couple times, but, you know, we keep hammering it in because everybody forgets about it, and they’re like, oh, no, no, no, we just we just want to get followers and tweet. Counts and and how much they tweet and how many people listen to him and it’s it’s so much more than that. And it’s really that strategy part and what are you trying to do? Why do you want those people? Why do you want more people following on twitter? What do you want them to do? What’s the purpose of having them follow that we were right trying to get up and what’s the purpose of following what kind of communication do you wanna have? And to me, it’s not any different from what we went through with email marketing. It started off the same way where everybody thought email was the next great thing, and we’re just going to send out a billion e mails and everybody’s going to come running after a couple of years you figured out you needed a better strategy for it, and social media is going through that same process of of what works, what doesn’t work? How do you communicate with people through this broadcast? Television went through it, radio went through it. Every new media channel that opens up goes through that same process of figuring out what you can do. What works? How do you make it effective? And how do you really track it and prove its worth gen anything you like, tio, you know, i just would say that it is i worked for a little bit with the corporate sector in particular around social media, and i think, you know, there is there is a great pressure to prove the value of social media, i think, you know, across across corporate culture across non-profit culture, but i will say that, you know, corporations tend to think of it a little bit more as this is a way that we build brand loyalty, right? And and in a lot of ways, it’s that’s, incredibly difficult to measure, like, how do you measure loyalty, right? But they’re spending a lot of money and trying to figure it out. And so i think, you know, that’s, something that the non profit sector will benefit from is the closer they get to kind of figuring some of that out in terms of how do we really measure, you know what this really did for us and you know, and that directly impacts their investment. How much are they going to invest? In social media, right? So so i do think that there’s some everybody’s kind of struggling with us a little, but but i agree with brian it’s, you know, it’s, another channel, it’s, another marketing channel, right? It’s not really mysterious like it’s. Another way to talk to people? It’s a slightly different format, you know, it’s, obviously a shorter format, but, you know, but email was a much shorter format than direct mail, right? So i feel like we’re kind of we’re on. We’re on kind of a very similar path, and really, we just want to have the best kind of engagement in foster the most loyalty for organizations and social media is a really great way to do that. Do you find many clients come saying they get the type of questioning that you’re suggesting, general, why? Why are we doing social media from the board? You get bored? Or maybe ceos? Why? Why? Why are we doing this? Yeah, i mean, i certainly in in the for-profit space, you know, social media budgets are minuscule compared to their other budgets around advertising and public relations, right? So the pressure to prove, uh, you know, return on investment, for example, it depends on the company, but some companies say we don’t really care. This is like, you know, less than one percent of our annual expenditure, right? Okay, that could be actually liberated, right? And others say, you need to prove to us that you know, the reason we’re giving you another x amount of dollars is because it’s actually doing something for our bottom line, but i think brands more and more are seen in particular, i think the loyalty that is inspired by the really great customer service, you know, right? And that that in particular for social media for brands becomes, um becomes really important, you know? I mean it, you end up feeling better about, you know, united airlines, for example, if they respond to you when you complain on twitter, you know, you alright somebody’s actually listening to me and i’m not sitting on hold for forty five minutes, you know? So so i think there’s a lot to be learned there just in terms of, you know, responding and engaging and the listening and the things that really in a in a regular relationship, not online, are really important to people. On di think thatyou wantto you want to foster that as well on your social media program? Brian, we have a couple of seconds. You are no it just increasing, increasing that visibility. You know, if it’s a diabetes foundation or something like that, if you see lots of tweets of them providing advice and help too people with diabetes and you visibly see that, then you see the mission is being accomplished. You see that they’re really doing what they set out to do and that it helps your organization overall help you convert. You are seeing it absolutely into as you just, jen. Whatever the forever conversion might mean it’s. Not necessarily all about older fund-raising but what could very well be excellent. Thank you very much. Thanks. Both. Thank you. Taking time in a busy conference. Brian. Brian, g c is i have it. Don’t don’t coach me. Director of marketing heller consulting jen smith, vice president, digital agency heller consulting. Thank you both very much. Thank you. Pleasure. Tony martignetti cover it. Not non-profit radio coverage of and t c twenty fourteen the non-profit technology conference. Thanks very much for being with us. I have another. Auntie si interview very shortly generosity siri’s you know them, they host multi charity peer-to-peer five k runs and walks multi-channel ity means that you can have an event with a small number of runners because together all the charities at an event make up many hundreds of runners, and then you have a great fund event all day around a five k run and walk. They have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia and toronto. If you think a run walk makes sense for your fund-raising talk to dave lynn he’s the ceo tell him you’re from non-profit radio he’s at seven one eight five o six, nine triple seven and on the web generosity siri’s dot com i have a new non-profit radio knowledge base this week, online engagement, real dialogue, real engagement in the social networks is critical. You’ve heard lots of guests talk about this, it takes strategy and planning and staff and their time and patients. I’ve got links to videos and other interviews with beth cantor, amy sample ward, j frost on a bunch of others all around the topic of online engagement. Those air at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty second of august thirty third show of the year here’s my interview from ntcdinosaur on technology and organizing welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen and tc the hashtag is fourteen and tc we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c and with me are austin levine kun and rachel butler. Austin is chief innovation officer for fish in strategy, and rachel butler is campaign representative for beyond oil. Austin rachel, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking time. Busy at a busy conference. Your your workshop topic is real talk on technology and organizing. Rachel technology has created challenges for organizing. I thought technology was improving our lives and making things so much simpler. Yeah, that’s a great question. I think that really it goes both ways. Technology has created a lot of opportunities for organizing, and it’s also created some challenges that are new on that the world that that i work in the world that we work in has has had teo learn how to use these new tools in the most effective way. To create social change, what are what are some of the challenges that you’re seeing? I think there are a lot of challenges around technology and organizing in making sure that the new technology tools that we have at our disposal don’t overtake and overcome a lot of the tried and true grassroots organizing methods when it comes down to it to create social chains and the campaigns that i work on there’s really nothing that replaces relation, organizing one to one conversations with people and that’s really part of the tried and true methods of organizing that technology can provide opportunities, tio, expand the reach that we are looking at with with the kind of outreach and campaigns that we do. But it’s, really the grassroots organizing tools that that’ll help actually makes sense of of the the reach that technology is able to give us and actually translate that into real bored world change. And i would hope that part of what technology could do is bring us two potential people tto have these deeper relationships with way we’ve broadened our reach, sort of at the at the initial stage at the meeting stage. Absolutely okay, austin, more more let’s, talk more about the challenges before we come. Absolutely and i think i think one of the things building off of what rachel was saying that i cz difficult is really making sure that you’re using the tools that we have at our disposal effectively, and i think a lot of organizations all of a sudden, sudden have access toe so much more data about the people that they’re interested in their cause but don’t necessarily know how to use it effectively, or, um, are having the challenge of understanding you have all these thousands of people who sign your petition online, but how do you actually transition from a petition signer to somebody who is willing to show up in an event or to deliver a those petitions that at the end of the day, too their representative in congress and so on with all these advantages and expanding the met of supporters that you’re able tio really attract your cause? Come these challenges with how do you then deal with or use effectively that other tools or that tools that you have available actually help to train and then to mobilize people? Okay, and what are some of these tools that we’re talking about for, for listeners, perhaps warrant themselves organizing. We’re talking about what kind of tools and then also it’s clearly data as well, right, and one of the one of the more common ones that a lot of organizations have started to look to his hand in this on online petition platform, it’s. Whether whether that’s on your own site or change that or gore move on has developed their own petition in-kind user generated petition platform that’s one of the opportunities to engage with new audiences and new supporters in one of the ones where that has also started to cause many challenges within the adivasi community, as people are still our learning over time, what were they used best for? And where are they not going to be effective? Okay, interesting. So you know, those of us who are outside the organizing community are not aware that technology and these tools are are creating some obstacles for you. Can we can we talk specifically? About what? What? Some of the online petition tools. What kinds of problems are created by them? Yeah, absolutely. Were what, like what? And so i think. One is there becomes this expectation that you’re able to win campaigns with petitions on lee, ok, and so what? And then money is starting to g o and pressures on non-profits to use petitions to raise the, um there visibility of the campaign that they’re working on, and that works for that one specific piece. But you’re not going to be able to win long term campaigns just by starting petitions, there’s a whole host of other tactics that and campaign strategies that need to accompany in online petition for it to be successful. Rachel has a good bit of experience with on this type of work with a beyond oil as well in the campaign strategy, peace and sort of this conversion. Yeah, so the way that i like to think about it is that the’s petition tools and a lot of these online tools are exactly that their tools to enable effective campaigning. And so when we have a petition tool, you know, that brings people in the door. The petition is one tactic that’s part of a larger campaign, and one of the challenges that i think austin is speaking to is what’s that arc that we’re building what’s that overall long term strategy that a petition is an important part of it’s, an important tool, but there’s there’s much more to winning a campaign and toe actually creating change, whether it’s through the sierra club’s beyond oil campaign or any campaign that’s out there there’s much more to it than just the petition, and then delivering those petition signatures. It’s an ongoing process, and that’s really where we get back to the basics of grassroots organizing. And once you have supporters are interested in issue, how do you activate them? How do you mobilize them? How do you give them the skills that they need to become organizer’s in their own right rather than just signers on a petition and at the outset, we need to have our strategy developed let’s not just put up a petition exactly. Let’s get twenty five thousand signatures on a petition that’s not a strategy that’s a that’s, a that’s, a tool and part of ah, you said, you know, part of ah process in a spectrum, and it really translates to social media also where there’s an incentive from to have more facebook fans to have more twitter followers, but the challenge that emerges from that is then what? What next? What after that and one advocates for youth, one of the organizations that was on there was represented on our panel this morning. One of the examples of the work that they do is actually when you get people commenting on their facebook page, when all of a sudden you have these thousands of support fans online, you need to actually reach out to them and see what is it like, how how would you like to be involved and really build that two way street, that relation relationship that rachel was speaking about in order to then bring them into the fold and start to build your campaign more effectively for the long term? Okay? And so the metrics for success in the pathway to success isn’t based on just the number of fans on your facebook vanity metric, right? It’s really about the deeper organizing that that enables, before we get to howto overcome these challenges, rachel, is there another one that you can share again with, you know, people who were maybe outside the organizing community, aside from what? What austin gave voice to that petitions seemed tio be the end all and be all t people what other? What other? The obstacles we try to overcome and using these tools? Yeah, i mean, i wouldn’t even necessarily talk about petitions as an obstacle. I would talk about them or as an entry point. And so if using a petition is an entry point is a great way to engage people in a campaign and some of these platforms that have been developed in recent years allow anybody to use the tools that historically have been in the hands of non-profit organizations and really democratized them and provided platform and an avenue for people that teo start their own campaigns. And so i think part of the part of the challenge that that that we’re working out, you know, as a community of advocates right now is, you know, everybody at this point has the ability to start a petition and then there’s that next step of how do we how do we really democratize that training piece so that anybody who’s starting a petition was also has the skills and has the resource is that their fingertips to how to build that into? An actual campaign. Okay, so the field is becoming a lot more crowded because of the empowerment, because anybody can create a campaign. But how? Well, well skilled are they take it to the next step? Yeah. I mean, i don’t even know if i would i would talk about it in in terms of the field being crowded. It’s that these, you know, there are lots and lots and lots of issues in this world that we need to solve, and we need lots and lots and lots of people to get involved to solve them. So i see it as really an opportunity for people who see an issue in their world to be able to have access to tools, to solve that. So to me, it’s it’s a huge opportunity to get training into the hands of people to you know who are interested in making a better world. And i think these online petition platforms are, you know, it’s, a it’s, a great tool and resource to get people involved and one of the next opportunities that were looking tio two faces, you know, howto latto bring it just beyond starting a petition and mohr into the sense of how are we training? Um, how are we training organizer’s? So that, you know, organizing is not just something that organizations do it’s something that people d’oh. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. It’s not always just don’t online, right? It’s not yeah, go ahead, austin, i think two and two that one of the challenges that is presented with this democratization of kind of social change or being able, anybody being able to say start a petition or sign a petition is then kind of that that next step of identifying we’re identifying which of those petition starters, we’re going to be the most effective leaders and able to then carrie, their campaign through to the end and actually win. And it’s not i think we’ll move on, for example, is struggling with this right now in terms of how do you know which which petition starter is going to be the most effective advocate in the long term? And then, are you able to identify that person were based on certain sides of chris characteristics or some other assessment, and then if they are, and then how can you train them and support them as they go through their campaign so that they’re more likely to be successful in the long run? Or more likely to start more petitions in the future and really become leaders in their communities? Let’s talk. About overcoming some of these challenges. Now, it sounds like it’s a lot more than just share this. But thank you for signing. Please share. We need to go a lot deeper than that. But again, those of us not in the community of organizer’s not not familiar, not aware of how you go a lot deeper. And rachel had it. How do we do some of the some of the training, for instance? Sure. That’s a great question on dh training is one of those pieces that personally, from my perspective, you know, i would love to see the development of better technology tools. Teo teo, you know, not only democratize the who can start a petition but democratize the training that it takes teo effect to run effective grassroots campaigns. So my background is is in grassroots organizing. You know, i come at the work that i do from a perspective of, you know, local organizing from state organizing, and since then i’ve moved. I’ve worked with national campaigns, and so training is one of those those pieces that gives people the tools. Tio i not only identify a problem and maybe started, you know, in the just sort of what’s what’s happening sometimes is that, you know, people identify a problem, they start a petition, but when we’re talking about campaigning, there’s there’s a whole other set of steps that goes on before you start a petition, which you can talk about is a tactic. But when you identify a problem there’s a there’s, a set of planning that that goes on in organizing, where you, you know, you identify what solution it is, you’re working for, you make it a smart goal, and then you figure out what’s the best strategy to achieve that goal, and only after that strategic planning has gone on. Do you go forward with implementing tactics like we’re going to use the petition as a tactic to reach out build abroad, supporter base and then from there will mobilize that supporter base by doing tactic non-technical number one tech to come or to attacking number three, you know, whatever it is that it that fits for your strategy, that’s going to achieve your overall goal to solve that problem that you’ve identified austin, anything running at about the training? Yeah, i think one of the i think, as rachel was saying one of the things that is key and many of these instances where there is an issue that your work men, organizations working on and there may be individuals out there that have started petition a petition on change dot org’s to try and change this, but reaching out to those both either the i think a combination of the individual that has already started the petition, but then also to your network in the communities where you’re looking to effect change and find asking them who are your existing like volunteers are leaders that are active on this issue and then asking them to start the petition so that they’re actually much more well versed in the issue and able to have the likelihood of being more successful and before that even happens, doing the media training, doing the, um so so that they’re actually once this petition is promoted, it’s not just a petition it’s a media moment and you have a spokesperson and you’re able actually tow start to mobilize around it. I could use a little more about identifying who the among the many now now in power petition creators how do we identify how among? Who among them are likely to be the the strongest leaders in the issue? Great question and there’s a there’s, a variety of different ways that this can happen and some larger organizations tend tohave metrics, systems of metrics in their databases that they used to assess how act active and individual supporter is, have they? How many different types of actions have they taken? Are they eh facebook fan? Do they have they signed an online petition? Have they attended in person event? And so through kind of those metrics, you’re able to identify some of the more likely candidates that could be those really strong super supporters in for your campaign. In addition to that, yeah, there’s the opportunity to tio have these people then go through essentially what are a series of tests instead of like an application, you asked them to take another action a couple like write a letter to the editor or write a blogger post about this issue that you care about, and in that way, vet them for your organization and then and as a result, are able to really, um, identify passively who who these people are that are most likely. To be good, good leaders for your campaign. So something that appears a call to be a call of action may actually be an organization sort of putting you to a test and seeing if you’re stepping up. Absolutely okay, yeah. Rachel, you’re going. Yeah, i was going to add. I would say, you know, it’s it’s one way vetting them is one way to think about it, but i think another way to think about it is providing opportunities to take further action because it’s, you know, think of if you get sent a petition online when i get a petition in my inbox, it may be an issue that i really care about a lot, but there’s no way for the organizer of that petition to know unless i’m provided another opportunity to take action. So part of what austin is talking about is providing those additional steps, those additional opportunities for somebody to rise to the top if it’s an issue that they are really passionate about. So part of what is what austin is talking about is providing a you know, what’s called a ladder of engagement, quote unquote, that allows people tio take further action. And get further engaged on an issue that they’re interested in in and passionate about going and what’s important to realize at the same time is that the latter is not the same for everybody and that some of your more passionate advocates are going to be turned off when you’re asking them to sign an online petition because they don’t know they know that they want to do more, and you have to give them that opportunity and so understanding that some of your more active supporters are going to be turned off by your request for them to do a any action when what they really want is to organize their friends and their community around the issue. And how are you going to know that? How do you know if you’ve offended someone? Because you’re ask is too small and here’s where the interesting challenge comes in? Is that it’s it’s an ongoing attest and battle tio identified teo figure out within your own community? What are those indicators were one of the easiest ways is really to talk to your supporters to send them an e mail to call them after they take an initial action. And or don’t take one after they’ve our been so active for a long time, okay? And in the world of of traditional grassroots organizing, part of part of one of the tools that’s used to really identify what somebody’s interested in what they are passionate about is is a one to one conversation. So you actually sit down with somebody and talk to them and ask them, you know what it what is it that motivates you? What’s, what are you interested in? And that way you’re able to not only meat your supporters where they’re at, but you’re able to gauge what’s the best way and what’s the way that they’re most interested in being involved. So i think part of part of the, um, one of the challenges that we’re facing is how do you use a lot of these tried and true grassroots organizing techniques and apply them in a digital world where you’ve got the challenges of just, you know, being in front of a screen rather than face-to-face we’ve also got these challenges of scale where you’ve got, you know, potentially, you know, one hundred thousand people signing a petition, so i think that’s part of that’s, part of the challenges that come along with technology and organizing and in in the real world, in grassroots organizing campaigns, there are some tried and true methods and tactics that we use and tools that we use teo build and win on issues and learning how to use those in the digital world is part of what you see happening right now. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you both very much. Thank you. Uh, thank you. My pleasure. Austin levine kun is chief innovation officer for fishing strategy. And rachel butler is campaign representative for beyond oil again, thanks very much. Taking time. Thank you. Pleasure. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference. Thank you very much for being with us. My thanks, as always to everybody at the non-profit technology network and ten. And at and t c was great fun being there. That was last march or april. There was last april. Loved it next week. Dori clark is with me for the hour to talk about your personal brand. Whether you’re an employee or out on your own, you’ve got a brand. What is it? And how do? You manage yours. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Remember generosity siri’s for those five k runs and walks, generosity, siri’s, dot com or seven one eight five o six, nine, triple seven. Our creative producer is clear. My raph sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing on the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Co-branding dick, dick tooting. Getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz waiting to get into thinking. Nothing. Good oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m we’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking. Hyre

Nonprofit Radio for May 16, 2014: Choosing And Living With Your CRM & What Makes A Strong Proposal

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Lisa Rau & Tim Sarrantonio: Choosing And Living With Your CRM

Me with Tim Sarrantonio & Lisa Rau at 14NTC
Me with Tim Sarrantonio & Lisa Rau at 14NTC

From the Nonprofit Technology Network’s (NTEN) Nonprofit Technology Conference, Lisa Rau and Tim Sarrantonio advise how to choose the right CRM system. Should you RFP? Who to get involved in the decision and how do you come to consensus? What do you ask for in writing? And a lot more. df

 

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Cindy Gibson: What Makes A Strong Proposal

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Cindy Gibson is our grants fundraising contributor and principal of Cynthesis Consulting. She’s been on the funding side, and tells how to jack-up your odds of getting the grants you’re after. Including, what do program officers hate to see?

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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and i’m very glad you’re with me because i’d suffer the effects of sarcoidosis if i was forced to endure the knowledge that you had missed today’s show choosing and living with your c r m from the non-profit technology networks non-profit technology conference, lisa row and tim sarrantonio advise how to choose the right cr m system should you r f p who to get involved in the decision and how do you come to consensus? What do you ask for in writing and a lot more? Also, what makes a strong proposal? Cindy gibson is our grants fund-raising contributor and principle of synthesis consulting she’s been on the funding side and tells how to jack up your odds of getting the grants your after including what do program officers hate to see in proposals on tony’s take two my thank you. Here is my interview from non-profit technology conference around choosing the right cr m system. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fourteen the my voice just cracked the non-profit technology conference. We’re at the marriott hotel boardman park in washington, d c we’re going to talk about in sickness and in health, choosing and living with your cr m with me. Teo, talk about that. Our lisa row she is ceo of confluence and tim sarrantonio tim is an account consultant with z two systems. Lisa. Tim, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. You’re cr m you’re a constituent relationship management software isan this just choosing a tool? It is. Yeah, but and go a little deeper than that. I thought i thought this was a pretty simple thing. You pick one and you and you pick one and you’ve done the hard part is, how do you think? How do you pick? Okay, there’s there’s a lot of choices out there. There certainly are. And you know what i like about the approach of this? Because my backgrounds ten years of fund-raising so on the side of the the chooser, basically, and what i like is that we’ve all pledged to be agnostic in our approach. This is not a vendor pitch session. You and andi, i think that’s that’s going to make it really, really exciting. Okay, so how ah lisa, you you clean it up for me. How how do you start that? Where the first steps of of making this very important could be very costly but doesn’t have to be a decision? Well, like a lot of things in our technology consulting practice, the answers are fairly straightforward in that it all depends on knowing what you want the system to dio, and you’d be very surprised at how many non-profits go to choose a piece of software without having actually thought about the specifics of what they wanted to do. Okay, well, we have about twenty five minutes together, so i’m not gonna let you off that easy. We’re not wrapping up now two minutes, and we’re coming up on ten seconds. Not that i’m counting, but i don’t have a choice it’s in front of me s o we’re not letting you have that easy. We’re gonna get considerably more detail. So how do we figure out i’ll stay with you? Lisa, how do we start figuring out what we want this system to do? Who should be in that conversation? How do we make that make those choices? Well, sierra constituent relationship management, everyone. In your non-profit really is interacting with constituents and so that’s a fundamental part of the decision making process is getting input from across the organization because the serum is really most effective if it is being used by everybody in the organization it’s an enterprise class piece of software. So you need to include really all of the all of the people in your organization, one form or another, which you agree with that i would definitely agree the most interesting thing that i found is that there is a disconnect between development and finance, sometimes where they don’t speak the same language, and so getting him in that conversation early is vitally important. You know, the correlation between accounts receivable and even something basic, like language fund-raising language like fund campaign? What does that mean when it comes to actual finance, reconciliation, accounting, things like that. So all the stakeholders? Absolutely, though, when it comes the program side volunteers, board members, please get them in there. Boardmember sze wai boardmember why boardmember is because they hold the keys to the castle. Basically, i’m on two boards, actually, yeah, and you’ll be just amazed at how disconnected some board members khun b but isn’t this ah, this something that’s going to be on a day to day basis that the organization’s going to use? Sure. And why should aboard be be spending time on such a thing? Because at the end of the day, at least in my opinion, your c r m is directly tied to your mission. It’s it’s about the people that you’re trying to help and it’s not just a tool, it’s something that’s going to help you reach your goals. And so, because it is something that overall helps dictate the direction you’re going and the success that you’ll have that’s why the board needs to be involved. Okay, lisa, you want to say anything more about the board? On my experience with board involvement? It’s mostly they need to approve the purchase. If it’s going to be over a certain amount that’s really the bulk of their involvement. They are also actually in the serum because their constituents so but that’s just data in the serum. Yeah, they don’t need to attend demos or things like that. It’s it’s. Ah, but they need to know what is going on. Okay. Well, tim, it sounded like you were suggesting that they should be involved a little soon earlier than its okay toe mean youtube from people you have differences of opinions. Fine, but it sounds like you were suggesting they be more involved than lisa was suggesting more. Just, like, sort of approving approving payment and towards the end, i yeah, i do think they should be okay for directly involved. So you’re not offended. Are you? It’s hard? You don’t. And you don’t look offended. Okay, well, now you set up a challenge. Okay? Thank you. Look, ok, but, tim, you’d like to see them involved involved throughout the process. Yeah, but maybe not to the detriment. You know, the whole too many cooks in the kitchen type of thing to you’ve got to balance it. But my approach, maybe it’s, because i’m on the board to where i don’t want to just be a rubber stamp. You know, i live in chicago. We have enough of that. So okay, you’d like to actually have legitimate oversight. Absolutely. And some transparency. Okay. Let’s, grow cloudgood. Um, lisa what’s, our what’s. Our. You host these meetings for clients. When? When these early conversations? Absolutely. Facilitate that. We’ll interact with the vendors and try to make sure that all the right questions are being asked and that they’re getting the information that they need. Now, earlier today, i re interviewed peter campbell, who was doing a session. You know, peter de beer, apartment and tcb ear. It was, is he was a twenty year, i think. He’s, one of the main guys that coordinates really okay. And tcb ear listeners is ah, it was a thursday was thursday night. Friday night? No, when when’s the overflow capacity when he was the one counting how many people they were taking that’s on how many people show up? I didn’t even know that he had that role. I would have asked him all about it. Okay, well, it was a wednesday night reception before the formal opening of of ntc on thursday morning on dh there was at a bar. Okay, so his topic is r f p c s o he said, does this does this requiring our f b i you know, i did talk to peter about that cause i give presentations on our peace and we’ve looked at me. Connecting people is amazing. No, i even tell you the universe. I feel like i i volunteered to come to be part of his talk. We we’re not big fans of our peace nowadays we’re much more fans of doing a lot of upfront research and finding a few really good candidates and then having in depth conversations with them because more and more with the technology it’s made to be customizable and so in the past, you have an rp where you’d check up check off. Yes, yes. No, no. And then the one with the most checks, winds and big requirements matrices and now, it’s, because the systems are made to be customizable it’s. Not a question of if they can do any particular thing. It’s a question of fit. Does it make sense for them to to be customized, to do any given requirement and that’s where you need to engage with the vendor and really have a conversation rather than an over the transom? R f p with a long bunch of requirements? Ok, tim is doing a lot of nodding. Yes. Yeah, our fees are very interesting from the vendor side it’s something that when i first started my job i never thought that i see as many and what’s what’s fascinating is they’re all different, but they all are at the core. The same thing that basically leaves it was just talking about in regards to just ask questions that that’s that’s really, at the end of the day, that’s all you need to do. I don’t have this big check list because when my approach personally is that i’m not just hitting. Yes, i’m actually linking to support guides for features and so that’s my personal approach. I know some vendors that they outright just say we’re not going to do any arm piece if we see in our p we’re not gonna answer it and ours is mawr case by case. Is it a good fit? It’s more consultation in terms of the approach, but every time i see it, i go. I’m going to be hitting wire and a bunch of times and make cell spreadsheet, and they’re all different and it could be easily covered in a half an hour conversation. Okay, you didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink dink you’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. Nothing. Good, do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe right groat. For your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Hyre oppcoll and i like conversations. I prefer conversation’s over over documents since and please describe, you know, in an email or something or or a proposal, i’d rather i’d rather talk myself. That’s metoo how about you, lisa? I’d like to talk sometimes, okay, not so much right now, you little but a mike in front of your eyes that’s why they’re still i’m still back on that. Some of the vendors don’t respond to our fees. I’d never understand that. I mean, if you’re in here to be bill business, you do have to respond to our peace and frankly, there’s important things that you need to ask vendors to write down and document project plans, pricing sometimes technical approach it’s important, you can’t just get rid of the requirement to write things down or respond to very specific things of interest, but i do think the over the transom approach doesn’t work well with serums because you’re really you should be able to really quickly xero in on three, two, six serums that are really good candidates, and you do that by triangulation is what i like to call it, which is a process of asking pierre’s doing your own internet research, accessing guides like idealware air’s kind of consumer lorts for software posting on listservs. So you get a variety of different sources of information and that triangulation will lead you pretty quickly to some really good options that you’re going to then go into more detailed and it’s just a better approach to choosing a cr m then than just sending an r f p that you probably don’t fully understand that you got off the internet somewhere to thirty different companies and wasting twenty seven of their time. It’s not a good process way could be considerate of the vendors. Exactly. I think we can extract. I’d like that. Yeah, person a czar’s metoo system representative you mentioned idealware lisa, which i have heard and i’ve read their survey, and i think i covered it on this show. They don’t, they do, and they do an annual survey of serums. Or maybe it was just a one time, two years every two years, every two years, and it was a very comprehensive short. It wasn’t a chart format of features, and i’m remembering correctly. Yeah, they have felt one of those nice bullet charts with you. Know yes, no kind of stuff, but they do all kinds of other cell for comparisons this well, but that that does have a really good place to start if you’re looking at serums, okay, because it’s free idealware dot com is that where we find that dahna work dot or god? Or ah non-profit i’d forgotten that it’s it’s, i think it’s dot org’s we google idealware idealware yeah it’s a a cz the lisa rolling your eyes, right where’s that for i’m not going to call you out for the working google. Can you form a good folk? Are alright? I actually did the demonstrations for the idealware report for work, okay? And i can attest, it is utterly comprehensive and agnostic it is it is probably the best starting point for someone who wants just a general overview of well, where do i start that go to that? Go to that report? Absolutely. And it’s unranked it’s just it’s just saying this is what it does, this is what it doesn’t d’oh, and and they basically that the process is very interesting. There’s there’s a syriza questions it’s, it’s almost like an rmp innocence that they ask you and then they follow-up with a demonstration a half an hour demonstration to get into the report, and then they follow-up with a full hour demonstration of the system itself to really drill down for each of the systems that every single system oh, i don’t remember everything every single one, the people who get into the top, like ten or something that there the duitz they’re the ones doing the long form demonstration, but every single potential isn’t at least doing a half an hour and that’s split between a relatively small staff way love idea where they’re absolutely fantastic people over there. And, you know, i love maine too, which is where they’re based on outstanding resource latto okay, all right, so what’s, our what’s, our next step on we’re tryingto do this chronologically, i think ueno everybody should be in the in the party and we of our triangulation research that we’re doing what’s our what’s, our next step, you need to get them in there for demonstrations and to kind of assess the fit because it’s not just about the product it’s about the company and there understanding of what you’re trying to do with the implementation and so you really need to engage in a personal level. I think it’s gives the best results block off a half day haven’t come in, do some demonstrations, have some conversations and assess again the fit. Not a half a day for each one the whole day. You know, half a day is about all most people can take before their brains are full. Right? That’s for all of our three to six now for each one i each one having so many hours? Yeah, you know, i think don’t try to talk you out of it. I know it takes that long because he’s serums most of the time they’re they have a lot of features and it’s very important. That staff e-giving come to see in the different areas whether it be development, event, management, project management or grants management so on and so forth. And they all need to see that their needs are being adequately represented in the product. I see. Okay, so there’s different time slots, i guess, for different constituents within the organization in tow. Let’s have the finance team for forty five minutes and let’s have development, et cetera. Okay. Yeah, okay. I’ve been in situations where there’s been. Excuse me. Twelve people on the call. And the one thing i would stress, though, is try to keep internal discussion like philosophical talking to a minimum. You know, we should already been passed that you’d be surprised where people like erupt into arguments about like, well, no, this is how we do membership. And it was like, what? Wait, i’m sorry. Do you need to know about if there’s an end date on this form? Because we have that but it’s so yeah, i would say a minimum an hour, the definite thing that you need to ask for his references arika hoos hoos are you using a current system? Do you have any clients that have converted from that? Can i talk to them? Converted from from your using like cr m a and you’re looking at sea rmb ask? Has anyone come from sierra? Okay. And if not that, you know that’s fine. Don’t concentrate so much on geographic area. A lot of people say, well, i would like something on, you know, in new york on dh that i get that to a certain extent. But i would mork concentrate? Kind of like what lisa was talking about in terms of the fit? Ah, what do i want to use this for? I want to talk to somebody similar size are you volunteer or based like my non-profit where it’s all volunteer? Or do you have staff? How many staff? How many constituents? So that that’s my general recommendation to now we’re starting, teo now the narrow the field. But if we started with three to six that you had suggested, lisa, we’ve had our product demos we’ve checked references actually checked the references right? Don’t actually call, but don’t ask for them. I guess that that’s an important second part of the reference process, is actually speaking to them. You’d be surprised how many non-profits i work with it? Never check references. I am shocked, actually, i i’ve i’ve heard that too. I mean, we’re not around siara, but even employment decisions, right? And they ask where or what you know, they ask for references for whatever purpose and then they don’t get checked. It’s a capacity in your capacity building issue? I agree, i think it’s good dismaying. Ok. Even a quick email, you know. You don’t have to outright call them. Just drop him a line if they don’t get back to you. It’s people are busy, but at least try. Okay? All right, we’re narrowing the process. What’s. So, what’s, our next step is we’re down down to a field of let’s say we’re down to a field of two, all right? From our three to six where we’ve got to, well, i like to go down to one. I mean, hopefully i think that’s our goal you talk teo gonna run two parallel exactly after the three to six you’ve had these sessions would be ideally, you really would have one that you’re feeling is the one that you want to pursue and that’s the one that you’re going to check the references for and do all the other due diligence, which is kind of the last stage of the process. You’re negotiating a contract, you’re finalized, pricing. You’re getting really detailed on schedule, we’ll we’ll get to those, but we’ve glossed over consensus. What if finance and development and program? Oh, and the ceo don’t come to a consensus, you know, i haven’t seen that much, and i i’ve done this. For a lot of organizations, help them tio come to consensus and usually it’s pretty pretty. Clich really that’s been my experience. Everybody seems to coalesce around one. I had one where where they did go back and forth. It was a very, very big ticket purchase. And the choice was between something conservative that was thie. Everyone else is using this system like no one gets fired for buying ibm versus a very, very high tech, relatively obviously more risky, high tech, newer thing where they would be leading the way. And that was really ah, a big decision for them. And they did have to involve a lot of board committee input to see which direction they wanted to go to in which one did they put him on the team? I was wondering the same thing. I was disappointed they actually went for the conservative approach, but the but they ended by saying, you know what? We’re coming from the dark ages, so this is just bringing us up for today. We’re going to implement this and live with it for a few years, and then maybe then we’ll be ready to to go to the high. Tech thing, so that was actually a very good philosophy. They weren’t seeing it as something they were goingto have forever. They were seeing. It is just a step up from where they were starting, which was excel spreadsheets and index cards or something like that. They had spaghetti custom code that had been developed twelve years ago that had just taken on a life of its. And they had long out out ground long ago. Alright, so usually tim, do you usually see a coalescing around around one? I do, um, it’s ah, you know typically it’s going to come down to one or two and a lot of people, and i’d actually don’t discourage this. Go with your gut. What instinct is that i think is important lots of things in life, but that’s a topic it’s just it’s just very interesting to see, because i also think corporate culture is important too. And i know that’s harder to quantify. But if you just get a feeling that like you’re being pitched all the time yeah, uh then that you’re going tohave that almost throughout the entire usage of your systems then support it’s going to go from sails all the way down, teo say support implementation so i think that it’s an important thing tio to kind of take into account, too, but obviously you’ve got to make sure you’ll like it and it’s going to work for your mission on an everyday basis. Okay? You know, from the data entry person all the way to the e d who needs the reports? Okay, we’ve made our choice. Now, lisa, you were said earlier with flesh. Just a little bit about what needs to be documented. Wave made our selection. What do we need to get in writing? Commitment’s, etcetera. What are we thinking about? Their yeah. It’s. Another area that i see non-profits habitually not doing as much as they should in the area of negotiations. I’m always so surprised when i send over our contracts and they come back without any markup. It all they just signed him. And i’m not even sure they read. Hm? Yeah, and this i they don’t necessarily understand that software is negotiable, that the price that is quoted is negotiable and there’s a lot of terms and conditions in those contracts that also should be negotiated. And so that’s something that a consultant actually can really help you with. But you want to make sure that you’re not paying for that your payment is tied to deliver balls, not just will work for ten hours, and you pay us for the hours independent of what we do and that there’s a schedule that there’s remedies if things go wrong, that they’ve really thought through the project plan, you also want to look at the personnel because you don’t want to get the most junior people on the team who they just hired, who doesn’t know the product themselves thatyou wantto, you know, review resumes and approve project interests, so on and so forth, there’s a lot of things that you can do to ensure or at least increase the chances that your project will be a success because these types of projects can go wrong many, many, many ways that’s a whole nother talk the hundred ways that you can screw up your serum implementation and at the contract time is where you really want to try toe put all those things, i think through all those things, and i have a contract that tries to prevent them from happening. You go ahead. I was just going to say the biggest stress, uh, that i’d love to piggyback on because that’s a fantastic point is data conversion. Well, we’re going to get there, ok? So we’re going to get there now. We’re now going to import or we’re gonna convert. We’re going to make our change. What do we need to be? Well, okay, anything more you want to add about being at the contract stage? Absolutely. And conversion. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Figure out what is in the terms specific to data conversion. Is the vendor going to help you have duplicate merging if everything in your spreadsheet is in all caps, are they going to help with that? Are they going, teo assist in any sort of, you know, clean up our, you know, reconciliation and things like that. And you know, how many hours is it going to take for them to do that? What do you specifically paying for? And if you’re opting for kind of a stripped down version like what help are you getting with that as well? Ah! Latto non-profits and i’ve seen vendors and this horrifies me that they just give this like blanket quote, and it doesn’t take into account. Oh, this is seven access databases that we need to convert and combined and just get a specific number that you’ve drilled down and understand off all the things. The absolute details on what data conversion actually includes. Okay, i thought, okay, now we’re into conversion. What kind of support you would be expected? Well, it’s, everything well, it’s, everything you just mentioned. What? What? Uh, i don’t know what else could go wrong and conversion. Mrs issue, this is a huge process tonight you’re going. The main thing is to have people doing the conversion. You have done it hundreds of times before. It’s not actually technically risky. It’s just can be a variable amount of effort on dh that’s. What? What messes up projects? Okay. All right. Let’s, move. Too bad mapping, by the way. Mapping watch. Jorgen joe, i know this show now have drug trail on this show. Youjust transgressed. Okay. Wow, i’ll roll it back. Role may be available. How does how does this field translate into the new systems field? Basically his first name equal to first name, you know? And then it gets progressively. Much work complicated it’s. Okay, that’s all how do we know when we’ve outgrown now? We’ve had our system for several years, and how do we know when its not working? What are signs that well, people are complaining what’s happening? How do we know? I don’t know if you don’t know, then you probably haven’t. It should be obvious, i think i mean, you can always do more and do better. I haven’t been in any non-profit where there weren’t opportunities to do more with their enterprise software that they were not exploiting, but that doesn’t mean they should ditch it and again, with all that non-profits have to focus on if there aren’t clear and obvious issues with their existing systems, i wouldn’t be focused on don’t mess with it. You probably have other things to work out. If it feels like you’re hurting cats with your data, then maybe it’s. Time to look. But if it’s not coming up on a day to day basis, then yeah, probably you’re fine because we could get training. Sure you revisit anything that the vendor might have released, you know, check their release schedule. Check the release notes, see what’s. New all right, maybe it’s covered and you just didn’t know it were going to leave it there. Lisa row is ceo of confluence. And tim sarrantonio is account consultant for z two systems. Thank you very much. Lisa. Tim, thanks for being the guests. Thank you. My pleasure. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of and t c the non-profit technology conference. Thanks so much for being with us. I am grateful to everybody at non-profit technology conference and and ten the non-profit technology network for setting us up at the at the conference. Got lots of great interviews, many more to come generosity, siri’s sponsors non-profit radio. And that makes it possible for me to travel to cool conferences like and to get amazing interviews to share with you generosity. Siri’s hosts multi charity peer-to-peer runs and walks. They do all the behind the scenes stuff that you’ve heard me mention, the licensing, the permits, the portable bathrooms. Ah, the emcees, the announcers, all the tech equipment for the timing. They take care of all that. 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I’m very grateful that you listened to the show week in week out if you’re getting email alerts from me, you welcome me to your inbox every thursday, it’s only once a week, but i’m grateful for that also we’ve been doing this show for very close to four years, the fourth anniversary is coming up in july. The two hundredth show will be in july. That’s that’s really something, um, and i’m grateful that the audience has built up to over nine thousand listeners, and i thank you very much for being part of that. Thank you for listening. Thanks for your support. You know i’m always interested in your feedback. You can get me on twitter through my site. Tony martignetti dot com through the facebook page always interested in your feedback and i’m glad you’re with me. Thank you that is tony’s take two for friday sixteenth of may twentieth show of the year with me now is cindy gibson. She is our practice temic she has a phd and over twenty six years of experience with non-profits, she has had leadership roles for several national foundations and non-profits she was a non-profit times top fifty power and influence, sir she’s principle of synthesis consulting, c y n th e s i s and you’ll find her on twitter as at caen gib si n g i b cindy gibson welcome back. Hi, tony. Sorry you can’t be in the studio all the time. It was nice to have you first, but you live in boston, but we’ll work at another time. Um, so we want to talk about what makes, uh, what makes a strong proposal you have? Ahh. You have some wisdom around this? Yeah, i think i’ve written about a thousand proposals, and i think i read about ten thousand of them. Oh, ok. Yeah. And it’s amazing how much the same issues keep coming up. So should we presume that your last five hundred that you wrote were stronger than your first five hundred ways there? You used to read them. And what? What? What’s what’s, one of the first things that comes up often, um, one of the first things that comes up there’s actually, three things that really stand out everybody knows i think pretty much the basic, you know, components of a proposal. But though there’s a couple things that i think that people don’t always get and the biggest one i think is it’s very, very often people won’t include a strong mark it analysis or sort of where they fit in the larger field or in an issue area. Um it’s sort of what’s your value proposition, if you will. How how? How is this organization? How is your organization unique? What is your value added? What makes you distinctive? In other words, why should we fund you and not some other organization that you work with? On the flip side of that is how do you compliment other organizations in the field that maybe doing similar work? So it’s both sides of that coin and i it’s very rare that you see that explicitly stated, ok, how do we define the market to prepare the our market analysis? Well, that’s a good that’s a good question, i think that it just depends. I mean, i don’t want, you know you don’t want to get to granular about it. I mean, certainly in the private sector, it’s a little bit clear what your market is, but for example, if i’m talking about i’ll talk about an area i know well, you’ve civic engagement. How do you get young people involved in civic life? It’s, a fairly defined field and people in that field? No, the other organizations, they all go to conferences together, they said the same tables and coalitions. It’s that kind of when i say market, i mean, that loosely defined it’s really looking at who are you working with? Who’s working on these issues and the field and indicating even that, you know, who’s working on these issues in the field, sometimes you’ll read proposals and it’s really amazing how people will come in with a proposal like it’s the first time she’s anybody’s ever thought about doing a particular strategy, and it just shows the program officer right off the bat that you’re not knowledgeable about the field in which you’re working or that you’re presuming the program officer doesn’t know and that you’re you’re what you’re purporting to be a unique idea has actually been seen lots of times from other other other organizations. Yeah, and there i have to say there’s nothing that makes program officers matter for more irritated as when grantmaker say, we are the only organization that does fill in the blank very rarely healthfully one organization that does anything those it’s really presumption list and it’s just it’s a red flag right away. Yeah, okay, well, i know you have a bunch of things that funders hate to see we’ll get we’ll get two more of those. So would you in your proposal, would you just caption this as as a market analysis? It depends. I mean, if sometimes you know as we know and as all grantmaker now this’s, what makes grand seekers annoyed is that every foundation many foundations tend to have very different proposal application guidelines. Some as we know, do come by who do come together and do what’s called a common application like particular states. Some foundations world say here you can fill out the same application for all of us but that’s still relatively rare. Unfortunately. So how you fit that value proposition is going to depend on you know what the thunders asking for, but somewhere in there should be some kind of intimation whether it’s, you know, usually there’s a there’s a section called you know, the qualifications of the organization are the capacity of the organization to carry this out. And, you know you might want to include it in there. You might want included in the summary about your project. I don’t think it takes five pages to say what your value at it is a lot of times. Ah! So really, is it really depends. Okay, all right. But you it belongs it because you said a lot of times this is not included. So this is, well advice to make your make you stand out. Yeah. I mean, i think otherwise see again. And this gets to another thing. People forget sometimes when they write proposals that the program officers usually not the only person that looks at this document and the proposed the program oster has to turn around and sell it to the either the board or the senior. You know, administrative staff for the president, who’s never making the final decision about what gets funded, which is often not the problem. Officer, um, that it’s very helpful for that person to be able to go into those meetings and say right off the bat. This is why this organization that’s really different. And this is why it’s really important that we supported on dh not you know again. But a lot of grand seekers will just not understand that it is a selling job for the program. Officer. Yeah, this goes tio what? You and i said, i think the first time you were on you’re you’re helping your job is to help the program officer sell your proposal and your program to the people you mentioned, whether it’s, the board or a senior program officer who makes but you’re helping them become your sort of sales team in the foundation right there, your advocate, and so give them out. But again, it’s important to remember that about where it stops sometimes, and that gets sort of backing into that jargon and proposals it’s always amazing to me because i’ve done a lot of reading of proposals in evaluating them out as a consultant for other organizations. I’m not particularly steeped in an issue sometimes, and i will get completely stymied by some proposals where there’s all kinds of acronyms that are not spelled out there’s it seems so basic, but it is so easy for organizations to get caught up in their own, um, work and their own spaces that they don’t think about somebody else reading this thing. This is something that i tell people all the time, and i i think it’s so important is that organizations give their proposals or their draft to somebody who knows nothing about their field, who does nothing about their work. You know, if you can find somebody your neighbour, i don’t care who it is, somebody to really eyeball. What you send in is really helpful, because that will tell you whether you’re what you’re writing is compelling on its own, and whether it’s going to sell on its own, regardless of who’s reading it. Ok, there is a bigger world out there, aside from your program and your work. Let’s, go back to something that you just you still touchdown was talking about. How you compliment similar organizations doing similar work. Right? Is that? Is that part of the market analysis? Yeah, i think it is. I think it shows that, you know, once you say, you know where this is, how we’re distinctive, this is, you know, why you need this organization to do this work when you say it also compliments a lot of other work going on the field, it actually sends a message that you’re collaborative because in the nonprofit sector, you know, most of the results that we get are going to come out of the collaborative and collective efforts of a number of organizations, not usually just one. And, you know, there is this ethos of collaboration in the sector is opposed to competition in the private sector, so the more you can say that we are collaborating with these other organizations and here’s how we’re complimenting their work. For example, a local non-profit or state non-profit or coalition might say, you know, we are regional or a local, so we’re able to bring the lessons were learning on the ground to the national groups that are working on this issue may be at the federal level on, and that gives them the national group. Some data, you know, about how things are working on the ground and what we’re seeing so it’s sort of conveys that you’re not only providing value to these other groups that ditch you’re actually intentional about it, okay? And you’re informed and you’re doing this collaborative work. Yeah, and you also have your eye on larger impact and it’s not, you know, we’re just going to keep doing this on our bubble in our little town or state, we’re actually doing something that has that’s that’s looking towards longer term impact, whether it’s policy change at the federal level, whether it’s regulations, whatever you’re doing okay, what else do you recommend to set proposals apart? Well, so another thing that i see a lot is that and every proposal guidelines will ask for this, um, they ask you usually for describe the need for the problem that you’re trying to dress on that your opportunity to say, you know what the problem is and to talk about the statistics in the data that support the need for, you know, for what’s going on, for example, you know, if you’re doing high school dropout trying to stave off dropout rates he would talk about you know, what the rates are and why it’s such an important issue. Um, and then they ask you, you know what you’re going to do about it, which is where you described your program or your project, and when i find sometimes is that a lot of times is that groups tend to fall in one of the categories of their either really good at talking about the issue, talking about the problem, why it’s so important? Um, and great analysis of the causes of it, um, but they’re not so great at saying what they’re going to do about it. On the flip of that is that some organizations will will launch sort of more into the what they’re doing and the work and they’re excellent describing all sort of the elements of their program or when they’re doing, but they don’t really say how it’s addressing the need it’s really important to make that connection and it sounds obvious, but this is where, again, having somebody look at your proposal and we’ll assess it and say, wait, i’m not understanding you just described a huge problem, but i’m not seeing how your program actually, is addressing this really important. Okay, we’re gonna take a take a break. And when we come back, cindy and i will continue talking about what makes your proposals strong. And also mohr, that program officers hate to see you stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? 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And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. And welcome back, cindy, have we covered all the suggestions that you had for for making a proposal strong before we get teo that the don’ts? Well, i have a couple just a couple quick things, you know, a lot of this overlaps with don’t but that we’ve talked about, but i would say that a lot of proposal writers and grand seekers know that an inevitable question on any guideline application is how are you going to sustain this work, which is what is your fund-raising plan or your business plan and it’s really surprising how many people will say? Well, we’re going to approach corporations and foundations and individual donors, and then they don’t say it in more detail. What do you have a plan for that what’s your strategy? Are you going to focus on one segment more than others? And why is that that’s really important? Another thing that goes along with that is when i worked at a foundation, we actually had a separate section asking about what’s your communications plan. Um and again, ah lot of grant seekers will say, well, we’re going to do some op ends, we’re going todo, you know, we’re going to go on twitter and social media and say, you know what we did if they’re doing, for example, a research study or report that doesn’t really say anything, it doesn’t say what you and what you’re trying to do with the social media coverage is trying to tell people about it, and what impact is that gonna have is going to make any difference? Neither how will you know whether it’s made a difference? And this is the testament, i think all grantmaker zee hate is, you know, the evaluation. How do you know if you have achieved success and again, the answer to that is not well, we’re going to assess our work through ah survey, you know, or we’re going toe ask grant asked participants in our meetings for feedback, you know, all of that is great, but it’s not really telling the investor ah, what difference it made overall, just because people had a great experience at a meeting you put together about a particular issue doesn’t mean that you’ve really had an impact on the problem. Yeah, neither of the three of those whether it’s fund-raising communications or assessment is a plan the way you described it, it’s just it’s sort of aspirational. This is what we plan to do, but but is not a detailed plan. It’s not none of those were a plan. Really? Yeah, i think that’s a good point. And and i would say a plan and then the and the crowd is although that is plan for what, you know, sort of it’s always before what question or to what end? All right, so a couple of things that you said specifically that hyre people reading and program managers officers don’t want to see a cz jargon. And of course, on tony martignetti non-profit radio, we have jargon jail. So we’re very sympathetic with that, um, and also that you’re the only ones doing it. You’re unique. What else? What else did they do? These people hate to see. Ah, well, not answering the questions separately, but it was not a common. I just made that. You know the answers air vague or their elusive, or they ignore them all together. Um, one of the i just did a eh stepped in for a program director who had left a foundation. And so i did a number of proposal. Reviews on site visits and one of the questions that they have on their proposal guidelines, which they’ve just revamped, is what outcomes do you expect to see? Um and i know and i understand why and how non-profits are reluctant to distill what they do down to numbers, but that’s, what the thunder was asking and what i found was that people either talked around the question by describing vaguely what they were going to do their goals, um, or you know what their strategies were, but they weren’t telling me what’s going to come out of this? And can you be very specific about what you’re going to do? Are you going to serve four hundred people, then say that, um, that’s not particular, but that’s i understand that’s not impact, necessarily, but it is an output that can lead to an outcome which might be something like we start four hundred people and people were healthier, you know, that kind of thing, so but but the thunder asked for that specifically, and i was really surprised how many people were confused by that. On the other hand, i did go back to the thunder and say, you know you might wantto put on your website or in the application guidelines somewhere a clear definition of what you want and what’s that what? What you mean by outcome? So that would help grantspace occurs to give you more of what you want, so it works both ways, i think, is a very common that questions get ignored or talked around with explicit questions in applications. Oh, yeah, yeah on i have to say, i’ve been guilty of this myself when i wrote proposals because, you know, that was your first five hundred in the first five hundred days, you know? Well, you wouldn’t get argue that good marketing is sometimes, you know, the best market and goes a little around the truth, but, um, it is true that people i would say less ignore the questions than they do, um, sort of try to talk around them or compensate if they don’t really have an answer by the reiterating something or again talking about larger goals or strategies rather than impact on influence on results. And why you and really making a case for why you you should be invested in running through a lot of what we’re talking about is making these connections, whether it’s between the need and your work or the your work and the outcomes and the impacts. It’s making this yeah, making covering the full spectrum. Yeah. I mean, it’s strategy. It really comes down to are you being strategic? Um, and i know again people hate generally the whole logic model idea. Andi, i understand that, but it is, and it can be really helpful exercise for non-profits to work through because it really separates all these pieces, um, that we’re talking about that then puts them together in a cohesive model and frame. And so doing that exercise in my experience really helps organizations put together stronger. A more cohesive kate. Okay, we have to. We have to wrap up. But the logic model that that sounds like is that that sounds like something that we might talk about in another show. Teacher. The logic model. Yeah. There’s. Lots of resource. Is that out there about that? Go help. They’re still some of the fear that people have about it. Okay, well, we can use that. We can use that. Maybe for next time. Okay. Thanks very much, cindy. Thank you. My pleasure. You’ll find her on twitter at caen, gibbs si n g i b and her practices synthesis consulting, c y en th e s i s next week an archive show i will, i will pick a winner. I don’t know which one it will be, but i will. I will pick a winner and if you have one that you really want to hear again, let me know. You can email me from my sight. Tony martignetti dot com. You can always get me on facebook and twitter. Also, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff lorts our line producer. The show’s social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein came in a little loud, but that’s because we love scott be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great e-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting thinking thing. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get in. Duitz e-giving cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. 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