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Nonprofit Radio for August 16, 2019: Manage Your Programs With A CRM & Co-Learning For Your Programs

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Jake Grinsted, Leah Kopperman, Kai Williams & Medha Nanal: Manage Your Programs With A CRM
The right CRM can help you run day-to-day program operations: track client relationships and outcomes; host trainings; manage certifications; organize transportation; and more. Our panel was recorded at 19NTC and they’re Jake Grinsted from Simply 360; Leah Kopperman with Keshet; Kai Williams at The International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council; and Medha Nanal from Top Cloud Consulting.





Debra Askanase, LaCheka Phillips, & Kevin Martone: Co-Learning For Your Programs
This 19NTC panel encourages you to look at a more collaborative training culture, which pushes the bounds of who is the educator. They’re Debra Askanase at Oracle NetSuite Social Impact; LaCheka Phillips with TechSoup/NGOsource and Kevin Martone from JCamp180.





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Transcript for 453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.mp3 Processed on: 2019-08-17T15:38:37.521Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…08…453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.mp3.32272577.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/08/453_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190816.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. I’m firing a listener. Steph Marie p. Left this iTunes review on March 11th 2018. Quote content is great. Okay, but universal. No. Gator cancels everything preceding it. Tony often chastises his guests or asks a question and then bulldozes them When they reply, it can get awkward and off putting. For example, a guest started off a response with good question, Tony. And he admonished the guest for saying that rude and weird. End quote. Steph, Marie P. Get off my show off. I want you to stop listening. I do not want you to be listening to my words. You don’t get me. I am in no way going to try to explain me to you because it would be over your head. You don’t have a sense of Well, maybe you do have a sense of humor. I’m not gonna go at home now. I’m not gonna go there. Maybe you have a lovely sense of humor. But you don’t share mine or you don’t even get mine. Let you don’t have to share it. You just have to understand it and you don’t. So I want you off the show. So here’s what I would implore you. I beseech you to do first. Unsubscribes Don’t stop yet. Don’t pause and stop yet. I want you to go. Whatever platform you’re listening is probably iTunes. That’s where your review was. Unsubscribes unsubscribes. Okay, now then you have to do that. Come back. Hit. Stop Not pause because we’re stopping. Stop and go away. Do not listen to this show again. Next thing I know, you’ll be chastising me because I’m lewd and weird to imaginary interns. You don’t get me and you never will. Please stop listening, Steph. Marie P. Get off my show. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. Now that Steph miree P is gone. I can say that with enormous confidence I’d be hit with favoritism if you beaned me with the idea that you missed today’s show Its program day manager program with a c. R m. The Rite CR M can help you run day to day program operations, track client relationships and outcomes. Host training’s manage certifications, organized transportation and Maur. Our panel was recorded at 19 NTC and there, Jake Grinstead from simply 3 60 Leah kopperman with Cash, Chi Williams at the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council and Meta Channel from Top Cloud Consulting and Co. Learning for Your Programs. This 19 ntcdinosaur encourages you to look at a more collaborative training culture, which pushes the bounds of Who is the educator. They’re Deborah askanase at Oracle Met Sweet the Sheik, A. Phillips with Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martin from J. Camp 1 80 on Tony’s Take two Living Trusts Responsive by Wagner, C. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission turned hyphen to DOT CEO. I feel so much better. Burden off my shoulders here is manage your programs with a C. R M. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 and T. C. You know that it’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. You know that we’re coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. What you don’t know is that I am now with Jake Grinstead, Leah kopperman, Chi Williams and Meta Channel, and their seminar topic is not just for fund-raising anymore. Managing programs With C R M zsystems You also know that all of our 19 NTC interviews are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Let’s meet the panel. They are again Jake Grinstead. He’s founder of simply 3 60 Leah kopperman, director of data and C. R. M at Kesha Chi Williams is the executive director at the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council, and methanol is seated furthest from me. And she’s the principal at Top Cloud Consulting. Welcome. Happy to be here. Have all four of you. It’s a big panel, but way can accommodate Absolutely. Thank you. So I’m not sure is this is this, uh, let’s start down at the end with the metal. Is this is emerging, or is Am I just not aware that your C R M database can be used to manage programs? You’re welcome to say that I’m just not aware. Yeah. So it has been around for a while, but definitely in the nonprofit world, it is an emerging awareness that it can be used for a program metoo management. Okay. And what, Metta, Let’s stay with you. What do we need to have in place so that we can do this way? Just need us, C r m databases that it, or are there other things we need to have? No. So you have to have the right kind of serum because not all CR ends in the market right now are capable of supporting program data. So you need to have right tools and write features in the Sierra system to support this. Okay, Right kind of cr M. Okay. Uh, so we’ll come back to that because we have 1/2 an hour together. Um uh, let’s see. Hey, why don’t you sort of give us Ah, a headline and a lead? Uh, that anything more? You could say that to introduce us to this. Yeah, I think that while using serums for program management and it’s itself not new, it’s much more broadly recognized. My organization, I felt like even just four years ago, Coming on working on ours for five years ago, people were like, That’s Syrians are for fund-raising. And I’m like, No, this makes sense. This is how it’s gonna work for us. And I had this vision and I was able to find the people that work with, but it wasn’t a conversation anyone else was having. And now I go into a session and everybody’s like, Let’s talk about program management. So are you a pioneer or early adopter? Early A doctor. I think the pioneers were way before me. All right, All right. Leo, what’s the advantage of doing this? Well, I wanted to also remarked that the organization that I’m with Kesha we’ve been using C r. M to manage our program since 2012. So we were really early adopter Warren earlier. You weren’t. You sure you want a pioneer? Why can’t I personally wasn’t I was not with Kesha and 2012 with the organization. I would I would say so. Yeah, I think so. Okay. That’s not a scientific survey statement. It’s just got gut instinct. Think so? Okay. Yeah. Um, Lee also credits herself with being That makes it sound like nobody else believes it. I believe I do believe it. Teaching me how to sign a sign up for a Twitter. He had a start. My account on Twitter. Now we have Susan Chavez is my mind that the show and my company’s works from works as our social manager. But she was not the social manager in 20. We’re not sure where this 2014 or 15. We’ll have to look at what it will say. Joined. Right? Right. My name’s has joined it, I’m sure was maybe Susan can tell us. Okay, maybe she’ll look, I know it was not 16. I know. I’ve been on longer than 16. Okay. Uh, okay. And, uh, Jake, what’s the advantage to doing this? What? Why? Why? Why not just do it Separate different management for our programs? Sure. I think there are a few advantages of having a serum for non-profits programs, and one of them is allowing for more time for your program staff to really focus on what they do best. Focus on their passion, focus on why they were hired, and that’s to actually manage the programs that they have. So having a non-profit serum allows you to cut some of the administrative overhead that doing doing this type of work with multiple different systems, maybe on paper, maybe an excel, maybe in different databases. By bringing that together, you make it a lot simpler and cut down on that time. But what if the comparison is with ANAP location? That’s that’s designed for program management versus managing your program through the C. R. M? So I would argue that if it program is designed to manage your sorry if application is designed to manage the programs, it quite well might be a program crn that’s probably see around. We should probably back-up is giving you Siara here, Jake Constituent Relationship management. So it’s any application that helps manage the relationship that your organization has with your constituents and your constituents might be the people you serve in the fund-raising world. Obviously, it’s the donors and the people who help support you. But in the programme world, it’s those the people that are involved in your mission might be volunteers. It might be the people use serve. It might be others involved with whatever your mission is. All right. All right. So So since I got I gotta go, Leo. Because with grand grand, I’m sorry. I gotta go to Chi because of the grand theatrics that you gave Jake, I have to go back to you. So what are we? Wait, What are we talking about? Are we not talking about, Like, salesforce and razors edge yet for program management, right? We are we talking about Exactly. I would say that Razor’s edge doesn’t really support program blackbaud other blackbaud tools. D’oh! We’re talking about service. We are talking about a fund-raising C r m being used for a, uh, just just a c r M serum that theorems air, not natively just for fund-raising. Those xero ends there for any constituent management, although some are designed very much for fund-raising like Razor’s edge. But sales force. And that’s the reason my order, when we were doing all of our evaluations of many serums, they were out there in 2013. We ended up choosing that one because it was more of a platform that we could use for program management, Um, versus something that was just set up for fund-raising. But CR rims are for everything. I would argue that if you did not have a program cr em, you’re probably using sheets of paper or spreadsheets. That’s really the alternative. Okay. Okay. Well, that’s exactly what medicine to you have to have the right kind of cr m. Yes. Yeah, it’s time for a break, but, uh, Sam didn’t tell me. Now he did. Wagner CPS. They’ve got a free webinar on August 21st Fair labor standards act nuts, bolts and updates. Now, today is August 16th. So the odds of anyone listening live or archive, which means anybody, because that’s only two ways you can listen, if you could just say theon of anybody listening doesn’t matter. Live our archive. You’re wasting syllables here, Thea. Odds of anybody listening on August 21st are slim to xero. So watch the archive. Um uh, it’s a wagon or yeah, we call these waiting to call these things. These wagoner webinars webinars. So this wagon R is the Fair Labor Standards Act. Calculating regular rate of pay and overtime pay for employees or for yourself that counts. You count to understanding, paid versus unpaid time and a lot more. You’ll find this wagon are the archive thereof. At wagner cps dot com, you click resource is and then recorded events. Let’s do the live list or love. I feel like doing it early today. Um, starting native, starting domestic, I should say not. Maybe not native but domestic. Ah, Sacramento, California on Hollister, California and Tampa, Florida. And those were abroad will get their Hammond, Indiana, special Live listener love after Hammond, Indiana. Franconia, Virginia. Franconia, Alcohol Franconia. Know whether it is, um uh, no, that’s Peru. That’s abroad. I wish she would organize his better. Sam. Really? You could do a better job for me. What kind of support is this? It’s unbelievable. I don’t have interns or don’t even get producer support. So also all jumbled up between domestic and abroad. I gotta figure it out. Salt Lake City. All right, That’s, um I guess he would consider that domestic. Yeah. Salt Lake City, Utah Live. Listen, love. After you do New Bern, North Carolina Live love to the new burns. Ah, Hell’s Kitchen, New York. I love I love that Hell’s Kitchen shows up as a separate entity. It’s not New York, New York, it’s Hell’s Kitchen, and that’s the only neighborhood in New York where that happens. We don’t get we don’t see, um, Nomad or Dumbo or Upper East, but Hell’s kitchen specific. I love that. I admire that. How do you How do you do that helps get you probably even know what I’m ranting. I don’t even know what I’m talking about. Um Raleigh, North Carolina. Live love out to you as well. Cool. That’s a Carolina today. Um, Now let’s go abroad With which had a better organized list from Shanghai. Doesn’t do by continent during Times Hemisphere released. You could do atmosphere. That’s only four of those. For Christ sake, you could do atmosphere. It’s only four of them. Shanghai, Shanghai, China Showing how you with us often. Thank you so much for that For that loyalty. NI hao Ni Hao and Seoul SEOUL, South Korea Also so such loyal, loyal, live listener love the soul Annual haserot comes a ham Nida Mexico CITY, Mexico Witnessed our days when a star dies. Mexico City and Tehran, Iran. You’ve been checking in occasionally. Now, Tehran. Thank you for coming back. Um, our keep. Ah, Peru. That would be Ah, put yours up. Portuguese now? No, the only spanish. So I ve been a star days When a star days for arctic quip Peru Thank you for being with us. Um, that’s everybody abroad. And, uh so live lister, love. Thank you so much for being with us and the podcast pleasantries. Because we have over 13,000 people listening in the time shift and the pleasantries go out to you wherever we fit into your schedule. I’m grateful pleasantries to you, and we know that we are minus one. Where ah, 13. Like 13,500 minus one from now. Going forward. Not just this week. I’m not going to say her name anymore. Uhm And so why did I wait till you may be wondering why that we tell today this review from, uh, that person was march 11th 2018. I don’t check that often. I don’t I don’t look at the reviews like every month even, uh, but I have seen it. I have. I’ve seen it long before today. I just was ignoring it in the past. And then the last time I saw it, I don’t know. Whatever it was a month or so ago, it annoyed me. So So that’s why that’s why uh, no, I haven’t been annoyed for for these 18 months since March or something of last year. But I’ve been annoyed for the past week, a month or so, and now I’m over it. Therefore, we’re moving on to Ah, what we’re doing. We’re continuing, of course, with Jake Grinstead, Leah kopperman, Chi Williams and methanol talking about managing your programs with Sierra. One of the fundamental differences is that in fund-raising CR M in fund-raising world, right, The kind of fund-raising data that every organization maintains is fairly typical. So whereas for programs, that is a huge where I d And so your CNN system needs to be able to store and manage all those different kinds of data, that’s a prerequisite to be used as programs. Okay, Okay. Uh, so you were just backing up a little asking about, like, different kinds of Syrians. I’ve certainly worked in social service agencies where in the past they’ve had what’s called a case management system and that really is what the social service frontline staff would use to manage the clients that they work with. So that’s really very parallel Thio, the kind of idea that we’re talking about a program management system and the advantage of not having a separate program management system and a separate fund-raising system is often there’s overlap between who your constituents are, and somebody who participated in one of your programs may very well end up becoming a donor or somebody who participate. Somebody who’s a donor may become a volunteer, and if you’re managing your volunteer program and you’re managing your client base through the same system, then you have up to date information and email addresses. Postal address is interests, etcetera, and so you can use it both for the client and and for the fund-raising. All right, so I think I’m trainable here. But let’s make sure so you can have a generic C R M that will manage fund-raising and Andi program operations trainable. I would take this a step further and say, In addition to what Leo just said, your program crn might often be very helpful to your development. Your fund-raising department. There are so many times where your fund-raising team are going to need to ask the program team for certain statistics and reports and data about the programs that they run because they’re gonna need that for their grants and etcetera to do their fund-raising. And so if the data is in the same place. If everyone’s using the same tool, the same crn the development staff would be able to have access directly to the reports and the information about the programs that are being run without having to tie up program staff. Time to actually pull those that information separately. That’s another advantage of bringing those things together and what xero. OK, OK, in your program description. Have you done your program already? You have your on the downside. It’s great. Okay, um, nobody came with a glass of wine in the bar is open, even my drink. Okay, Jake, that is not water. I guess that’s vodka. Leah has a metal bottles. We don’t know what’s in that. Two women down the oak. That is already finished. I think I That’s Jim, not water. Alright, So good. I’m glad I’m not hindering the fun and excitement part of social part of 19 nineties E for any of you. Okay, so in your program, in your session description, you take off a whole bunch of things that can be run through a c. R. M. Tracking client relationships and outcomes run training’s manage certifications, organized transportation. Is it worth taking through. Is there enough to say about each of these about how the C R M should can be used to do each of those things? Or is that too much in the weeds? The way that we handled the panel was each of the four of us did like a case study, where we talkto sort of soup to nuts how we use our serum to manage one particular thing. I don’t think there’s enough time here to run through, but that that is how we handled it in case studies. My brief. I don’t know if you’ve got a little example of how shit uses when it might be helpful for sure so way. But we can. We could do brief examples. So you each have a different CR M doing something different. Yeah, because because all the organizations that we are working with or at our do different mission and Jake you’re the consultant here. No, I actually 36 from the founders simply for 60 were actually creating a C. R. M that is designed for programs. That’s why we started something for 60. I work from non-profit where we found it frustrating that we couldn’t find a good program. Cr m. And so with that organization I actually started and founded simply 3 60 to do that to fill that need. Okay, so in the session, I actually talks about one of our founding clients s O, That I use that as a case study and represented them talking about how having a program crn for them has been so helpful thing. American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey. Okay, Okay, I’m willing I’m willing to hear the case is from each of you, But you realize that we don’t have 75 minutes. So So I know on dhe. I appreciate that you aren’t all nodding, is it? But what happens when you start talking? You get into your stage hit, and all of a sudden you’re three minutes. Story becomes 12 minutes, and then we’re out of luck. So I have to cut off everybody else, and everybody will be pissed off at you. And they’ll wonder why they didn’t go to the drinks instead of coming here. Should have drinks. Why? I waste my time here because they didn’t get to tell the story. So everybody gets, uh, okay, so we’re 13 minutes. We’ll make this the longer sessions as 27 figure. We spent a minute bantering, so we’ll go to 28 which is about 15 divided by four. I’m impressed with math, but I haven’t finished it yet. 15 divided by four is less than four. It’s like three minutes and 1/2. So everybody gets about three and 1/2 minutes. I’m gonna I’m gonna try my best. All right? So everybody gets three minutes and 30 seconds on Duh. At the three minute mark, I’m gonna let you know that you only have 30 seconds left and we’re gonna hold you to this s o I since I feel bad. That meta is sitting at the end doesn’t have a devoted Mike. And I feel second bad for, um, for Kai, who also is has to share my So let’s start at the end. With Metta, you have three and 1/2 minutes to tell the story at, um top cloudgood. The top cloud consulting shared in the Okay. Get closer to the study of one of the clients I work with. The organization worked in the areas of health and wellness. They programs such as individual and group therapy for physical humans on wellness programs. So before I started working with them, they were managing their data. Alden spreadsheets. It was spread all throughout the organization with all the program teams. Every time that the team’s wanted to pull any kind of report, they were pulling that out of individual spreadsheets and manually formatting into the desert former and that was taking them days. Thio create a report. So number one it was a giant waste of organizations. Resource is on number two. Everybody knew that pulling the report was like pulling teeth, so they were not even using reports as much as they should. So after we moved there, they tied to the Syrian system. The reports were quick, instant, instantly available up to date, not for five days old on the organization started using reports as a feature much more frequently because it was available so much more easily. That’s so concisely I didn’t get to give you a warning. Uh, you’re here a little more You want to say Okay, tell our stories, and maybe, maybe maybe maybe the host will develop some questions. You black lackluster. Who’s No? No, you still get your three minutes? You still get your three? What? I say three and 1/2 actually. Three minute warning. He’s cutting it down, so I don’t know, You know, meta exceed XL, but you could be You’re welcome to be lackluster. Please. OK, eso I work with the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council. We provide training and resource is on wildlife rehabilitation. We have membership. We have classes, we have certification. We have a practicum. We use our serum to manage all that often. It’s the same people doing all of that. And then maybe they have an extra $5 they’re helping us out with the $5. Or maybe they’re volunteering for us. So we get to see all of that before we have C R. M. We had an old system and we actually lose data. Wait, hold on. I’m sorry, Amy. Sabat Ward, Stop distracting the guest on top of radio. You had your chance. You had your shot. Just distracted CEO of intent is distracting, distracting Leah and J everybody making this wave on camera. All right, I’ll spot you an extra 15 2nd All right? Yeah. So before we had our modern serum. We were losing data like we have a registration that would get lost because the system in between one server and the computer, it would just disappear. So we have people showing up for classes and we have no record of them. Really. A lot of issues with trust, all sorts of problems. So with the modern serum were able Thio one have everything in one place. I know to trust our data. We haven’t come directly from our website into our system. We’re able to track our measure, tracked measurements, assessment of how the students are doing, how they’re engaging with us. It’s It’s quite an interesting set up, Andi, I guess I want to mention one interesting thing we found as we talk about our case studies because they’re all very different. You know, I’m contracting with hosts and doing sending certificates to students and all the stuff that happens in between there. But we found this similar framework. We are all even though our products are very different. The steps we need to go to are very similar and so we’re hoping to kind of create some data models for other non-profits to dues to be ableto have program management CR ems. And how are you? How are you collecting that? Well, I’m working with a couple of different groups on that, but user user studies just people. It’s really just people like the four of us getting together and walking through these scenarios and saying, Oh, okay. This flows into this, which is this, and this is always an assessment piece. Even if you might not call it assessment. This is your registration, your enrollment, something that sort. This is your program piece. Oh, this might be an add on. If you have a case management your assessment might be Did they find a resolution? But there’s these really core similarities, and so I’m excited to see where that goes. Okay, I appreciate that. You actually did accept my admonition. Thio keep things concise. Haven’t given a three minute warning yet. Okay, now, Leo, don’t blow it, okay? I’ll do my best. Really? Okay, so So it kiss it. We air the LGBT Q Jewish organization in the US, where national and focus on our mission Shin is too have full inclusion of LGBT Q Jews in Jewish life and one of our programs that we do is where we train the leaders of Jewish organizations to have more inclusive environments for sorry for Jews who are participating. And it’s not the water over the vodka. So we that we do in sort of regional programs and we do a year long program, say, in Chicago, where the Jewish Community Center and the bunch of synagogues and the, uh, I don’t know if there’s a Jewish community foundation. Whatever the Jewish organizations are in the area, they all commit to this year long program and we offer them training and help them set goals to make their organizations more inclusive. And we provide them with coaching services over the course of the year and the way that our Sierra Miss and then at the end of the year, they you know, sort of report back to us through a survey about, uh, how they felt about being participants. And so the way that we manage that program with our serum and we happened to use sales force is that we way use existing data in the sales force. Instance toe understand what communities might be the next ones to offer a program in right Well, look, we’ll see. OK, we have enough people, maybe in Cincinnati, that maybe that’s the next community. Well, where will offer a program? And then we can do marketing using that C R M to the all the Jewish professionals working in Cincinnati and and advertise the program and reach out and say, We’re going to be running this and will you enroll? Then we have a sign up process where organizations will sign up and add the that information about their organizations baseline measures of where their organization is at in terms of Do they have gender neutral bathrooms? Do they have a new LGBT clue of LGBT affirmative group in their community? Do they have a bullying policy? You know, all these different kinds of measures. We asked them up front when they fill out the form and they tell us where they are, is a baseline. And then they, during the program, set a bunch of goals. Those all their goals go into our serum and then our coach has access to all those goals and works with them over the course of the year. Two. Help them reach those goals. All those girls also populate a dashboard that we have in the serum, that our executive leadership can look at any time and see 80% of the current leadership project. Participants are you know, they have started on 40% of their goals. They are still waiting to start on 10 and they so we can see they can see the progress without having to ask anybody. That’s just there in the dashboard. And our fund-raising team can also use that to make a case to a donor because it’s just right there in front of them. They can log in any time and do that so and then at the end they do a survey and we and we find out one of the things we want to do is change mind set, openness, three minute warning, okay. And we want to change the mindset of the participating organizations. So we asked them at the end did they see new opportunities for LGBT inclusion in their communities. And one of our measures is what percentage of organizations reported that and we have about 80% of our participants reporting that they did see new opportunities for inclusion. So it’s been very successful all right, Jake. So yes. So one of my founding clients, the American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey. They are an affiliation of summer camps in the United States, and their mission is to help in rich lives through the camp experience. So they help train camp staff. They help parents figure out which camps to send their children to and just generally promote the can’t summer camp experience in United States. Um and so I want to touch on another potential benefit of a program serum that we haven’t been touched on already. But we haven’t properly articulated yet, which is the benefit that it can give to constituents themselves. So the people who are actually benefiting from the program can really benefit from their organization having a program xero. And I’m gonna give you an example of how at the American Camp Association of New York and New Jersey, they have this amazing program. This wonderful lady there named Rene, who is in charge of helping parents find the right summer camp for their children. And she works oftentimes one on one with parents to help them find the camp. It would be good for them and so what we were able to do once we had all of the camp, all the member camps that are affiliated with this organization into a program. Crn we were able to start exposing that information on their website directly and gave parents a chance to go to the website, fill out a form as to what their children might be interested in. You know how long the camp should be, How much it should cost nb be able to actually search for summer camps right there on because they had now this one see Iran, where all of their camps were together. They could trust that the information that was e-giving that was being given out on the website would be accurate to these parents. So then parents could actually indicate that they were interested in the camp camps, then had a member’s portal through the sea Iran that they could log into on dhe. Then camps could see which parents had indicated their interest. They could also now register for training events. They could basically take advantage of all the benefits that the was giving them. So by using simply 3 60 in this case, they were actually able to give both their member camps and the parents that they served better access to their own information to the information is in the system and better serve them with the programs that they have. Can anybody else site benefits to the those they’re serving constitutent people themselves? Well, maybe not people, but the environment. The what? I like Jakes. He didn’t say it, but he has one aboutthe texting. Oh, sure. So another organization I’ve worked with has they run programs for kids, toe, get kids out into the countryside for the summertime incredible organization on. And they they have bus loads of children that get on the buses at the Port Authority. But you work for me, work for any schools, or is this all play time for this is this is a thing. So what happened is I was in college in London and I found, became a counselor to summer camp, and that was it. Camp was like the rest of my life. I was obsessed with this. So this organization runs five summer camps, and the kid’s got on buses. They went out to the countryside, but then, when the buses came home There was often this situation where parents might be late to pick up their children or they didn’t know exactly when the buses would arrive. Maybe the buses would come early. And so, by using a program, Sierra and we suddenly had this ability to send out mass text messages. Two parents, as the buses were sort of a narrow waves. Often, arroway whatever and say, Hey, just so you know, your child’s on their way home, Can’t wait to see you. Please make sure your at this place at this time and that we hadn’t even anticipated that this could be something we could do with a program. Xero. So what we actually talked about in our in our session was this idea that there are sometimes these unexpected benefits as well on dhe. This was a great one for us. Yeah, you’ve been You’ve been listening for a while. You have a question, But you have a question you like to ask. Oh, okay. You know what? I’m gonna shut you out. What’s your name? Joanne. Joint. Crabtree joined Crabtree from Washington from Washington non-profits in Vancouver, Washington State of Washington. So Joanne missed a session not just for fund-raising anymore managing programs with the arm zsystems and came here to listen to this. 30 minutes, 30 minutes. Short version. Thank you, Joanne. Thank you very much. Check out non-profit radio. We have way. Have lots of good panels. Not This isn’t the only one we do lots of good stuff. Thank you, Joanne. Okay, Um, we just have Yeah, okay. Anybody else want to shout out? Ah, a constituent benefit. Because I think that we’re here for the people or the environment or the animals. We’re, you know, we’re serving anybody else Want to shout out a constituent benefit, but has to be in, like, 30 seconds? Okay, Get much closer in one of the organizations that I worked with the program data and fund-raising data was separated on the program. Later was once we combined the two systems and brought the program later into the CIA room along with the fund-raising data, it’s suddenly help. The organization will stop, get along with each other much better, because previously, there was a lot of this manual data exchange between the two teams and the teens were frustrated, like concentrated, questing and not receiving the data that they want benefit not only to the recipients, but to the provider’s as well. All right, we got to leave it there. Thank you so much. Thanks, Tony. Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you’re welcome. They are Jake Grinstead, founder of simply 3 60 Leah kopperman, director of data. And see our Emmett Cash Guy Williams, executive director of the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council. And Mitya Nadal, principal at Top Cloud Consulting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. Thank you, Joanne. Joanne Crawford. Thank you. Are our audience member for the panel. And of course, all our panels are brought to you by our partners. That act blew in while we’re here in 1990 Sea ActBlue free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Need to take a break. See how Sam gave me the proper proper See when I get good support, the show runs. If I could just get decent support from everyone, we need to take a break. Oh, I said that host sucks. Cougar Mountain software, Cougar Mountain software quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund fairly simple to use, and the training to be helped the training to be very helpful. I need an intern so bad, so I have somebody to blame for this ship. Copy. It’s unbelievable, and the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring. End quote. That’s Laurie D. Oh, God, Lord, he’s from a church. I’m sorry. I don’t know if Laurie Listen, Um, another quote. All the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost. End. Quote. That’s Kim T. From Lawrence Township Cookie Mountain software. That’s what this is all about. They have a free 60 day trial. You’ll find that on the list in our landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now time for Tony’s Take two living trusts. You start your plan giving program with charitable bequests. That’s definitely the place to start. You’ve heard that mantra many times from my lips. If you want to go further and you don’t have to, you could just stop with requests and have a very respectable, planned giving program. But if you want to go further living trusts or revocable living trust. That’s an excellent next step. It’s easy for everybody to understand, for you and for your donors. My Living Trust video is at tony martignetti dot com, and that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s do a live listener love update since we did it early Now more people have checked in Ann Arbor, Michigan is with us. New York, New York, New York. See, I’m sorry you can’t be in Hell’s Kitchen in New York, New York If you were in Hell’s Kitchen, you would have got you. We got shouted out as Hell’s Kitchen, but you’re elsewhere. Just New York, New York. But glad you’re with us. Live, love to you. And also Osaka, Japan, Japan. Checking in. Thank you, Konnichi wa and young son, South Korea. On your haserot comes a ham Nida. Thank you for joining us Live love to all of our live listeners. And now it’s time for Cole earning for your programs. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 1990. See, that’s 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We are in the Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me Now our Deborah askanase, Latika Phillips and Kevin Martin. Seated next to me is Debra. She’s the social impact manager for capacity building programs at Oracle. That Sweet Shikha is a program manager at NGO Source and grantmaker. Success four. NGO Source and grantmaker maker Success at Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martone is technology program manager at Jay Camp 1 80 a program of the Harold Grinspoon Foundation that was the longest I’m out of breath already with dellaccio sources into Kevin is a program, but he’s not the foundation, but he’s a program Oracle Met Suites. Two words. I’m exhausted already. Introductions. OK, your program topic was Reinvigorate your programs through multi directional learning. Let’s start with down the end. Kevin Martin, Please let’s define our terms. What are we talking about? This multi directional learning? Great. So Avery jargon e-giving drug in jail on non-profit radio. It will get the three of you out of jail in our session. We definitely We started pretty early explaining what that actually meant. So Okay, so I’m not the only one I know So So, um, really, the the session in this topic is really about his, you know, Traditionally, sessions are one way there’s someone on stage, whether it’s a lecture or in a webinar or some other training’s environment, who all the knowledge is going from that person who’s the expert to the audience. The learner, right? So multi directional is. I’m not assuming that that person has all the knowledge in the room that instead you’re embracing the fact that everyone in a training program has knowledge and expertise. And so you have learning from learning toe Lerner, Lerner, the teacher and teachers. So it’s all different direction, really, So So can I expect to pay less for conferences in the future. And I’m part of the training staff. I should be Compton right Free hotel E. Get free airfare. Compton. That would be good. I’m teaching. I’m in the audience, so it’s still hard work. It’s hard work. Thio create facilitated session that does multi directional, But I’m in the audience. I gotta work hard too. I should be to learning more my voice just alright, theoretical. I’m learning more. All right. Um, Jessica, why don’t you help us? Uh, bring us into the topic little bit. Give it like a headline in the lead. So why we needed this session? Well, we definitely needed the session. I think that it’s time to begin the show organizations how how to turn traditional events into something that is Maur engaging something on opportunity for everyone to contribute to these different solutions. And I was needed for organizations non-profit or for-profit. But I was as to be a part of it because I attended two different multidirectional events through next week. Oracle build a thon events of four NGO sores and in that in those opportunities for me because they were multidirectional and because it wasn’t just someone just giving me information. Given my team information for us to download and and to turn around and apply, I was actually with a team of people I was learning at the same time they were learning, and my goal throughout this whole process was to basically eliminate the time or decrease the time living in time. But decrease the time that I was spending on a billing for NGO source. And when I started this process, it took me over 30 hours a month. So process building for our team. And because of the multi directional opportunities with nets with Oracle, I’ve been able to get down my building process to less than 10 hours. Now, had I been in just a one on one session with another person, it probably would have taken me a lot longer to get to where I am now. But we had we working in teams, and so we’re all learning we were all contributing to this process. So that’s how that’s how I see it working. And I think that if we begin to we non-profits begins to look at what we’re considering. Traditional events, for instance, Webinars and think of ways that how we can actually turn those upside down to have Maur engagement to have more involvement from everyone. One. Okay, Debra, um, this sounds to me like anarchy. Why not? Why not gonna be a free for all? Well, trouble, trouble. It always sounds like gold, but it isn’t. The session was designed with the belief that everybody in the room has the answers. Right. So you walk into whatever you’re designing, whatever programmer event you’re designing with this theory that at the end of it, everyone’s experience is so much more enriched because his answers aren’t coming from the quote unquote experts. They’re coming from the people who are also doing the work out in the field or living the experience. And they have just as much validity with what they have to share as others. So a good facilitator. You have more of a facility, Kevin. Kevin was getting to this. You have more of a facilitator than a presenter. There can be some presentation elements. Like a good facilitator has figured out how to make the experience a shared facilitated latto next-gen facilitate these. I have facilitated you. Have you facilitated or just attend? Have Kevin Martin still three facilitators here? Well, as well as attendees in Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I’m focused on. Yeah, one step at a time. I know. I just stands multiple. We all can learn from each other and you multi directional. All right, is co learning the Is that just a synonym for multi directional or is co learning something different? Anybody? I would say it’s elearning. It’s similar. Um, so yeah. All right, so we’re expanding the idea of who’s the present? We’re gonna learn from elearning elearning for everybody. Um, the advantages. I made them clear. We all have something to contribute. Not only the person on the lectern, but we all Okay, so should we talk about how to organize your next staff training? That’s so so that so that it can be co directional slash multi directional slash red, amber green. Kind of learning. I don’t know what traffic lights. No way. Like our next staff training. So I remember our wedding too small and midsize non-profits. That could be just two people. They’re called learning all the time, but let’s say it’s university. Some Let’s colleges, universities, hospitals call mid size. They’re doing lots of staff trainings. They have faculty meetings. They have dr meetings. They have, uh, other provider meetings. Learnings. Training’s right in service. We can We can use this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. At our session, we actually have people to read is I’m just nothing. All right. Even though I suppose the, uh but all right, I’m stuck in the old model like I’m a dinosaur. I mean, an anachronism. Um, the person at the I’m gonna put in health care setting. But the person on stage has her master’s degree in nursing degree. She has a master’s degree in nursing. She’s got an MBA, and staff is all you know. They’re the B s ends and the R ends. No masters degrees. We still should not all be learning from the person with the MBA and the Russian downstage. And we should also be we not all should be learning from the person with the MBA and the master degree in nursing. Doesn’t she have the most into a part in the room where we’re just all a bunch of B s ends and our ends? I would say that well, number one, there is still a place for the traditional, right? There’s gonna be times where somebody is the expert who’s coming in, and the goal of that session is to get their knowledge to other people. But in the example that you just gave, those are ends who were in the crowd they have experienced in the field. And so some of that experience might be helpful to add to what the expert is saying may potentially in more theory, where’s they have more on the ground experience so they can share that with each other and with the presenter. And like never says that enriches everyone’s now the thing that was a bad example. Also that ahead of the training right, there’s this belief. The expert often has the belief of what the people in the audience want to learn. And so there’s work ahead of the training, with Cole earning as well where you can ask people. Well, what would you like to be happening in the training? And what would you like to get out of the training? And I believe that’s a piece of it, too. That’s multidirectional where that their their direction is coming from their audience. Okay, okay, let’s start with Jessica because it’s been a while since you got a chance, Doc. So we’re going to set up this staff in service training? Um, let’s keep it in the health care vicinity. What we wear. Deborah’s just saying lead. There’s lead time preparation time. How do we get started setting up our next staff training this way? Um, great question. And we did talk about this in our session I raised for I feel like for great points. Okay, They were they were not ego problem. It’s good thing we stuck you in the middle. So s so to get started. My recommendation was the number one. It’s the first of all. Think of the roadblocks. What roadblocks do you think? Well, actually, let me if I can rewind just a bit, I’d say that the number one step would be to discuss what is the goal? What is the overall world coming together? What is what do we want to get out of this? Okay. And then from from that, then start to think about what are some of the roadblocks that would actually hinder us from turning this traditional event into a multi directional. What are some potential role blocks? And then I said that we need to think about the time, the time. That is gonna the time that is going to take for this to happen. What are the time restrictions for this? What time needs to be invested in the beginning? Because I know. And for me, when I participated in the opportunities with Oracle Net suite, there was so much time invested into our team beforehand. I mean, at least 10 hours, and so that’s something to think about. You know? Are you willing to invest that time and then distributing that, distributing those responsibilities? And then I say that we need to think about what are some of the disadvantages actually of flipping and event, because there could be, You know, as Kevin said, there is definitely still a place for those traditional events. So we have to think about that. And then, of course, what are some of the advantages? So I think once you map out those four things in addition to the goal, I think that’s definitely a great a great start. So in the instance where we are having a you said, that’s a staff meeting and we’re gonna have something. So then again identify what is the goal? What are we trying to learn? And then, I think, identify people within the community who have some experience in that they may not be an expert, so to speak, but they have a lot of experience, and so I think that that’s also helpful. And then there. I think that it’s also helpful to have people who may not necessarily have hands on experience, but they do have some knowledge of what we’re talking about, because then they also have, uh, some, you know, they’re able to make some type of contribution. Okay. Okay. Uh, Debra, what are what are some of the potential roadblocks that mentioned might exist? Thio Converting your training thio, multi directional, multi directional multidirectional. Debating what the training is, of course, will be different road blocks ahead of time. There’s the time that you put into it by redesigning, rethinking, getting out of your space that you’re used to thinking about. I think that’s hard. It’s also it can be challenging to get buy-in from your organization for this new kind of not only just programming event, think about like a fundraiser that you’re having. How would you incorporate it multidirectional in that If there’s a near some training element of that, it can be challenging to get some buy-in. The other roadblocks that ah, that could happen is so you have the multi directional training and it turns out the other directions are not so interested in contributing right. What happens then? I think that that’s very real. That has never actually been my experience Does That has never actually happened. But you do have sometimes less participation than you would desire. For example, time for our last break turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories, as well as build support for your work for your mission. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. There a turn hyphen to dot CEO. Finally, a sponsor message that was uneventful. Chase got butt loads more time for Cole earning for your programs. I want it. Well, I’m gonna go to Kevin and I want to talk about some of the crew’s some of the advantages of doing this aside from what we’ve already identified a few times, everybody learning from everybody else. And there’s so many different perspectives in the audience, and we bring all those perspectives in What are there other psycho social advantages that we haven’t talked about? Whatever. I mean, I would say things you just talked about are the main advantages. But I know those are off the table. Yeah, so for in terms of our attentions fan, I think I know leaving a lot of sessions and helping with managing conference conferences. Phones come out pretty early in a lecture. And so, by having these multi directional options where you stop speaking from the stage and you give everybody option the top talk and share it gets them back engaged in the energy level gets up often in the session. That seems to be the other big. Yeah, I could see different voices. I mean, I know when I speak, I have not done go learning, of course. Not sure that I ever will. But big ego ego problems, you know, But, um, irrespective. So what I’ve done so far, You know, I noticed attention perks up when I start asking questions. I started asking, and I don’t I don’t like to leave questions till the end. I take questions. So I guess I should say, When I start accepting questions, people start raising their hands. There’s different voice, you know? Said, Let’s start popping up the other. The other half of the audience wakes up, you know, I’ve got results to speak of it. That was funny. Labbate would have to sleep off the street. Nobody, nobody, nobody Just take it seriously. I probably I could see I think that is true. I could see that. At least they weren’t using their phones way. You know, I just point I do see voices or, you know, people broke up with other voices are heard throughout the room in questions. Yes. We’re gonna mention think about the traditional weapon off. Right. And you were right. And you can see your analytics. Where, like, Oh, look at all these people. They’re not Actually. Live your weapon on what you can’t say. You can see. So if you can think of turning the webinar upside down dafs multidirectional learning, I suspect the engagement will go away. Okay. Okay. Um, time limits time. Need other Latika. Talk about that. Okay, let’s let’s go to That’s our preparation. So where do we go now? It’s a day off. Are we in day of way. You know what? There was one thing some, uh mentioned pulling. You talk about pulling in advance, finding not only what you want to learn, but whether whether people will participate, can you? Let’s talk about how do you find out whether people will actually participate? So you don’t end up one U unit directional when it’s you intended go. Directional defendant Multi direct depends on what it is for the build with on events that we run, for example, we make it really clear. First of all, we assign a team captain on the net sweet side. And then we assign a point of contact on the non-profit side. And we say at the end of this event, you will have to present not the employees but the actual non-profit customers so that they present their learnings to the other customers and we sort of designed the day. So there are no surprises. It’s really clear this is what’s going to happen if you’re participating in it. And so I think you complain. I mean it that way, where everybody walks in with a showed expectation of what’s gonna happen. Okay, Okay. I was envisioning an event that’s different where it’s not all everybody presents at the end. But we’re the role learning from each other during Kevin run by an event like that can happen. Okay, How do you make sure that audience members are gonna participate in the way I just described? I think I mean, it’s well liked. Ever said it’s definitely part of its preparation. So like there’s actually a book called The Art of Gathering by Preah Parker. And she talks about the meeting or the training or whatever the gathering is. Starts as soon as you invite someone and yours should be spending time preparing them to let them know So, for example, there’s a there’s a communications training that I do. And in one of the first communications I have with any of those participants, I asked them to send a photo of themselves. And I’m very clear. I’m saying, when we do webinars when that photo shows up, that means you have to speak. And so it’s like you’re gonna get called on. And so it’s sort of prepping them to say It’s not just me talking. You have to be ready. T share your experience. And so there’s little steps like that you could do in advance to just prime them for when they get there that they’re gonna be speaking and not just listening. Okay, Okay, what do you do? Anything. Anything different in terms of preparing the audience? E. I think that it’s also good to identify everyone’s role. So if we are looking at the model that we’ve talked about teacher, teacher, the Lerner, Lerner, the teacher and learn it’s a learner. But even within that, I think that rolls should be defined for day of plain that a little bit. So when we participated in the build a thon, it was very important for us. Well, for me, toe have a note taker. There was so much information being exchanged, and it was just impossible to gather information to retain it and also apply it all at the same time. So there was one person that we designated to be one that was actually documentation. So that way, when we leave, we have steps. We have everything documented for the future and to move forward. And I also think that it’s important to identify who is actually going to be. If it’s if it’s an event set up where you can actually begin to apply and move forward with action steps at that time, that I think it’s important to have who is going to be that person? Luckily, we were able during the building down to actually go live with a lot of the different things that we were building, you know, we didn’t have to wait for testing. We were able to go live with that. But it was important to identify who was gonna be that person. Also, to identify who’s going to be in charge of accountability and follow-up. Because once we leave here, then then what happened? So it’s important to know what the next steps are. And did this actually work? Was this really beneficial? And it’s hard to really? Well, I was going to say it’s hard to tell day of for me. I I knew at that that day of the building time that this was very beneficial for my team. I just knew it. But you actually really see the results weeks and months after the fact. So the follow-up is very important. So just identifying rolls and who’s doing what, even though we’re all learning and we all have the answers. But then how else are we contributing here? All right, all right. So we go to a day off now. Okay. Let you go. Stay with you. What? What is this? What does it look like? Day off is It’s like this is the room, like, start with the room. Is it set up the same way with a traditional seminars. Yes, it set up the same way it could actually be set up in and broken off into groups that I don’t really think that there is a right or wrong way to set up something like that. I think that if it is set up in a traditional, for instance, classroom style or meeting south, I think that you can also even incorporated a workshop section where people actually kind of break off. So I think that that’s fine. I don’t think that the way that this set up is that Okay, that was a question. Well, it was interesting to me. I’m a newcomer. Yeah. In our session, they were in the traditional meeting style set up. And when we asked them to do some of the breakout work, right, the co learning, we thought we said, Turn to the person next to you. We said sorry. Away from the like, turn to the person next to you. And instead they all said, Well, can we just get up in form groups based on what we want to talk about? And they did. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, anarchy way. Well, let’s just go with it. Well, yeah. Community wants it. We’re supposed to hold it. It’s supposed to be supposed to be learner, too. What did you say? Audience to learn a teacher. I was wondering if you’d said no. You lose all your bona, fide, all your credibility Credibility. Yeah. No, it was so much fun, to be honest, I don’t know. I’m lecturing. We’re doing it my way. Um, okay. What else? What else do you want to go, Debra Day of? Tell me about what they have. Looks like we still got a few more minutes. Why don’t you want to give me a model? Work with her? You wouldn’t listen. General Health care. Mom, Your healthcare mind your model. Our nurses, nurses training day on on infection prevention, post surgery. So a couple of key pieces start with sending expectations. Make sure you have different voices the day off, and then make sure that there’s time built in for the teacher. Loner, loner, loner, loner, teacher. Right. So if you start with setting the expectations that setting up the room at the beginning, what’s gonna happen is structured time now, as Lucia was describing. But is it always where there’s structured time for the cold learning or you can’t just raise your hand and say, I have a point that I had used my downstage hand again. I have a point that, uh, that I want to make to the group. It doesn’t work like that. I think that’s informal elearning if you want to set it up for sort of formalized elearning that I do think we need some structure. Okay, Yeah. And so once you set up the day and then perhaps you’ve set the stage for what is actually gonna happen. So maybe there is a little bit of a training for 15 minutes. In the beginning, that’s like, this is the information you have to know. And then and then the important pieces. Well, how are you going to take that and add to it by the goodness of the intelligence of the people in the audience? And you have to build. You have to bake that in in some way, whether it’s an activity and there’s lots of great books on, like how to plan these kinds of activities where people learn from each other, um, or whether it’s an ideation exercise right and people spitball ideas. And then they turn to each other and talk about them. And then they iterated again, whatever it is. So that’s their learning from each other. And then at the end of the day, there has to be some way in which the learning is consolidated. So there’s the learning, Frito, that happens, happen stance in different groups. But then they have to learn from each other. Like, how did the groups each develop? And how did they exchange of information with each other? So you have to You just have to organize it. Facilitated is there Is there a resource that you gave out or that we can refer people to their white paper? Awesome, Reese. Okay, what is it? Tell us. Where can we find I? Actually, the first name that I can’t That was the multi multi directional bingo card. Okay, I know. It’s just basically a It’s a chart. And we, um we list 88 different traditional events, and then we have every every dynamic teacher to learn a learn a teacher Lerner, Lerner and so in the chart, the goal was to have the participants took him. Plead how feels different exchanges are happening for each one of these different traditional events. And so, yeah, we do wear working. Listeners find that it’s on. It’s in the collaborative, knows that it is in the collaborative notes. So you go to end 10 dot or GE go to the euro in the 19 multi-channel half, and then you know you’re well, we’re in 1980 CEO, and then your your session hash tag is multi path. Okay? And that’s where this resource is. That bingo card called a bingo card anymore. It doesn’t look like you find only because we were using that as our as our game as I workshop piece help the because depends to begin to start rebuilding their events. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. We’ve identified the resource. We’ve defined what the anarchy looks like. So I encourage you do not have the ego that I have and actually attempt this. Try this because we can all learn from each other. You couldn’t learn from each other. There wouldn’t be podcasts. That’s what much Give your altro out your outro. Deborah askanase, seated next to me is social impact Manager for capacity building programs. at Oracle Net. Sweet Machiko Phillips, his program manager for NGO source and grantmaker success at Tech Soup, NGO Source and Kevin Martin is the technology program manager for Jay Camp 1 80 which is a program of the Harold Grinspoon Foundation. Thank you so much, Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks to you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. All are 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact Thanks for being with us next week. Another good one. No firings. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com Responsive by Wagner c. P A is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software The Knowledge E fundez They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profit tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Beyond potential. Live Life, Your Way on Talk radio dahna N Y C. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com are you a conscious co creator? 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Nonprofit Radio for July 12, 2019: Your Crowdfunding Campaign & CRM + Email + Website

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Moshe Hecht: Your Crowdfunding Campaign
Most crowdfunding campaigns don’t make goal. What are the common denominators for failure and success? Moshe Hecht answers all, and shares his organizational readiness checklist to get you prepared for success. He’s chief innovation officer at Charidy. (Recorded at 19NTC)





Isaac Shalev: CRM + Email + Website
You’ll learn more about the people engaging with you when your CRM, email and website are integrated and talking to each other. We’ll leave you with a plan for getting these technologies together. My guest, also from 19NTC, is Isaac Shalev, president of Sage70.





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Transcript for 448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.mp3 Processed on: 2019-07-15T12:28:32.797Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…07…448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.mp3.945783280.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/07/448_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190712.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d turn pseudo referees if you made me sweat with the idea that you missed today’s show Your crowdfunding campaign. Most crowdfunding campaigns don’t make goal. What are the common denominators for failure and success? We she Hecht answers all and shares his organizational readiness checklist to get you prepared for success. He’s chief innovation officer at charity that’s recorded at 19 NTC and C R M plus email plus website. You’ll learn more about the people engaging with you when you’re C R M E mail and Web site are integrated and talking to each other. We’ll leave you with a plan for getting these technologies together. My guest also ferment 19. NTC is Isaac Shalev, president of Sage 70 Attorneys Take two. Show number 450 were sponsored by Wagner. C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution specifically for non-profits tourney dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications. Full service, strategic communications and PR turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here is your crowdfunding campaign. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. That’s the 1920 19 non-profit technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. All of our 1990 seasoned reviews are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools for helping non-profits to make an impact. I’m joined down by mushy Hecht. He is the chief innovation officer at charity. That’s with a D. On his topic is why your crowdfunding campaign might fail and how to avoid it. Welcome, mushy. Thank you. Thank you, Tony, for having me on the show. It’s a pleasure. Pleasure. Um, what’s the work at the charity? So we are a crowdfunding platform and consulting service. So we help non-profits run their e-giving days crowdfunding campaigns, and we do the entire back office service for them. So we’ll give them the platform, and then we will give them a a team of marketing specialists and fund-raising consultants to help them succeed in their crowdfunding campaigns. Okay, so your first step in making sure your crowdfunding campaign doesn’t fail might be to engage charity. That’s right. Oh, man. What a free from I just give you 30,000 listeners, and I’m not gonna charge you. You didn’t ask for it, so I’m not going. Um, okay, it should be pretty simple. You got a lot of ideas around. Reasons why these things might I’m over modulating. Why these things might fail. Um, give us some some stats. Most do. Bye fail. You mean not make goal, I presume. Let’s define our terms. So that xero Yeah, that’s a great That’s a great way to start. So yeah. Okay, so the industry would would, you know, measures it by, you know, you set a campaign goal, and then you don’t reach your campaign goal. And that has about a 2/3 of campaigns. Don’t succeed across crowdster have very broad metric. If you go a little deeper into it’s a personal cause. Crowdfunding campaigns success rate is actually much lower than that. We go into non-profits or a little bit hyre. You’re going to creative creative campaigns for businesses and products. They’ll be somewhere depending What platform? Some Some state, 44% success rate, somewhere lower. Um, it’s not great. The success rate is not great and mostly judged by reaching the goal. Now, in our talk, I spoke about a different metric, which is probably more accurate and more helpful metric to of what failure means. Okay, so if you think about and you try to zone in and what did the essential difference between let’s go modern crowdfunding and, you know, just a classic fund-raising. Okay, so before modern crowdfund e-giving at some really great ways to fund-raising direct direct No, you know, you know, face-to-face solicitations, events, andan, even email marketing as of late and social Media Marketing has a laser all great tools to fund-raising to get in front of people into engage and solicit donations. I would, um, I in my view and in my experience, essential core difference of why you would okay, do a crowdfunding. I mean, if you got all those other options, is that when you when you set out to do a crowdfunding campaign, Essentially, what you’re trying to accomplish is to hit a tipping point that the campaign the crowd from the campaign will be so effective that it reaches a threshold. And over that threshold, it reaches a certain Momenta Mme that you don’t need a push it anymore. And it has a life of its own, right? So think about some of the most popular crowdfunding campaigns that we don’t know about what we call us when we, uh, you reach a you reach, um, you have your pioneers, you’re early adopters, and then you reach early majority. That’s right. Tipping point. I’m glad. Yes, Malcolm. So it’s it’s funny mentioned that my entire talk was actually is based on sort of the narrative that we’ve created through for the presentation to make it a little bit, you know, easier to understand is I based it on the Mountain Gladwell book. Oh, on the on the fundamentals. And that book came out in 2000 19 years later. The fundamentals of that book are still very true and can be used as an analogy for what it takes to reach a tipping point. And that’s really what you’re setting out to do, because otherwise just go to classic other ways. Just why put in the work in the effort to try to do a craft in-kind every single Exactly. You gotta start using direct mail to get people to donate to your crowdfunding campaign. Just write a letter, a solicitation letter, eggs. Every single dollar is a struggle, right? So the possibilities is really what you know of this, you know, uber connected world, this World wide web of goodness and kindness that we live in the possibilities of hitting, attempting a tipping point of having the campaign go well beyond your own abilities to take on a life of its own is really what we’re trying to accomplish. So I would say that there’s actually if you use that metric as as as failure, it’s actually a lot more than 2/3. It’s just that that’s hard to measure. Weight have to be really do granular analysis of what can I get? Lots of campaigns and how they trended and over over what beer time. Okay, but yeah, if you apply that measure, I’m sure it’s. But it’s not much worse, less less than 1/3 succeeding Okay. Ah, so what are what’s the best way to? We just dive in and say, What’s the number one? Well, I I thought of something. After all, what’s the number one reason campaigns failed, So there isn’t one reason. And number one number one, what’s the top reason? It’s gotta be a top reason. So mote many of you. Well, what I would say. Probably a top if I had to choose. The top reason is a lack preparation. I’m asking you, like a lack of preparation and the infrastructure set up right in for up front. Okay. What we do, What do you need to do up front? Very good. So you’re getting me through the top? Didn’t you see the questions I gave you before? So, Tony, tell me, um, it’s time for a break. Weather, cps, their accountants. You know what they do. For goodness sake. You’ve heard me say this. You know what CPS do? C p a. Certified public accountants. Do you need one? Do you need a firm? You need a couple, whatever you need. You know what they do? Check them out first at wagner cps dot com. And then you know what to do after that. Pick up the phone, talk to you. Eat duitz. Doom the partner. He’ll tell you whether Wagner CPS can help you. Regular cps dot com Now back to bushy Hecht and your crowdfunding campaign. So that’s actually a good question. Once the number one reason, Yeah. Lack of preparation, I think, um, people they see so we see a lot of graph looks easy, right? It looks like a kn accident. Do it. Do a do a 32nd selfie video. I go on to kickstarter or go fund me. What? According to you, what? What? My intentions are what my goal is what I’m raising money for. And, uh, and then and then people just come like we thought about web sites in 1990 to build it, and everybody will come to it. Not gonna happen. Yeah, doesn’t happen. So there are, um, a few core ingredients that need to go. It’s a new set of we’re talking about upfront, prepped on infrastructure. And these are I would say, these are fresh tools that non-profits need to learn. Okay, um and maybe individually, some of them are, you know, classic tools. But combining them together is really where the magic happens. The glue that brings them all together, that creates that, you know, sort of velocity That helps a campaign take off those two and these air. And I say they’re fresh tools, because there, you know, they’re the these are part of this is possible. I believe that. You know, we hear a lot of saying, like, you know, don’t try to do a, you know, ice bucket challenge for your organization, right? It’s just not realistic. And that’s actually, you know, if if consultant would tell you that I would say the streets looking out for you, he’s not trying to set you up for you. No unrealistic expectations. But I have a bit of a different view in the way my experience on what might what? What I do for a living is we actually work to reverse engineer a an ice bucket challenge and say, What were the ingredients that went into the ice bucket challenge even though it happened by accident again? Okay, organically. It’s not like someone came together. All right, we’re gonna raise under $50,000,000. We’re gonna get the entire world plus the president down. Bill Gates, everything. Here’s the plan. Follow blueprint. Do it. But l s had some things in place. Well, they’re so there. So not with not with this intention. I would say it doesn’t like that so I would say we’ll study. It doesn’t matter. Meaning whether the things happened by accident or they happened with intention. Doesn’t matter. Just tell me, what were those that they were in place? No, no, I understand that. Yeah, I agree. Yes. So they’re making it clear that they didn’t set him up with the intention of exactly Because that’s country what you’re talking about. Yeah. So? So what we’ve done is what was already so number one, Let’s go through a mountain labbate. Okay, Number one is the power of the few. Okay, so we know about you know, the power few 80 20 rule When it comes to fund-raising grayce absentee money is coming from 20% to you people. 20% of ah, you know, 20% of your people should be giving 80% your money, right? And we use this says as a methodology for fund-raising. Rarely do we use it as a methodology for involuntary engagement and for soliciting people to become ambassadors and influencers for your organization. Where we say Okay, well, if we’re trying to get to the message, we should just engage with the mass masses. But the reality is is that it works the same way with volunteer engagement. Getting people to advocate for organization is first, find the power of the few. Find the power of those. The column, the the influencers, your power. Your have power on social media. Exactly. So so glad. Will breaks it down into into into three different types of people. Connectors, mavens and sales people. Right. So today we call them influencers, right? And they but influencers have varying degrees of these attributes, you know? So Ah, connectors like you going to a party. And you’re like, you know, how’d you get here, Laura? You know, she, uh, Lauren bradunas. She invited me to You walked through the room. Heroes at Laura basically was, like, had something to do with everyone invited to the party. Right. You’re going to a conference in Portland, you know? Oh, you have to meet Laura. She’s gonna be there. You gotta meet Tony. You gotta get on the show. You know, everyone’s on his show like these air connectors. That’s not a hypothetical. No, no, that’s that’s really you’re connected. And you’re also maybe even be a maven. Maybe even a sale of herself. Disgusting. You’re made in first. Everything I don’t want to say I’m a whore. Everything. Oh, my God. There’s a lot of Yeah, So there’s a lot of obviously that there’s crossover at some people. Could be like a professional something, And they’re also a bit of a connector. But essentially, it’s influencers. Right? But influencers, you know, today we know the Miss Influences, and they’re like, OK, instagram influencers, they sort of They become formalized and formulated into an actual career. Right? But it’s not just the professional way. Gotta move this long. You have a lot of tips were only on the 1st 1 so number. So you know what? No, I do wanna go deeper on this before before we leave it, but I’m directing you that we got, uh I wanted to get specific. What do you do with these influences first? First you gotta identify them. There are companies that I can help you sort through your all your social contact if you give them your email. Maybe charity does that. I don’t know, but you get enough of a free promotion. I’m not gonna let you say whether you do it or not. Maybe you do maybe you don’t go to charity dot com. She could find out beyond that. So you’ve identified your influencers? What do you do it before your campaign? You You Well, you empower them to be a springboard and a messaging board for your organization. So say you’re a school, okay? And you identify, um, an educator in the community, right? That who’s a maven in the community, which happens to be a parent, right? And you, you you engage with that person and say, Listen, we’re doing the campaign, and we’re raising money for this in this new program. And you happen to be a professional in this program and love for you to get onto a video and talk about like, Yes, this program really deserves the funding that is being asked for. And among all the noise that’s happening through all the solicitations and asking this is going to rise to the tide because you’re getting that trust and that gravitas from this professional who’s going to bring your message to the forefront. So you want to identify them? You want to empower them, engage with them and ask them to become advocates for your campaign. Now, if and their first. So they’re really carrying the message forward, right? The connectors are like just by just by posting it on Twitter today or posting on instagram or putting it on a whatsapp group, they’re naturally connecting or they’re going to an event, right? The mavens air giving you no weights and trust to the conversation. Salespeople are creating persuasive reasons why you should give and should give Maura and give even more. You line these people of strategically, you could have a much greater chance of success. All right, How much? How far in advance? Great question. So it happens in in-kind. Took 14 minutes for questions. Wait. Another 10 maybe 12 5 Feel generous it How far? So we do it, so we do it in stages. So what’s really important with crowdster radcampaign is keeping the momentum going. So you don’t want to, you know, start preparing a campaign several months before, and then you lose interest in you lose momentum, right? Because you want to complain. It’s like a plane taking off, right? So they’re usually the first people that you would reach out to you before you go public before you go public, right? so you’d reach out to a couple weeks before a couple of weeks before you know if I’m dealing with a squid newsome with university. So it would be like, let’s say, two months before the campaign and you want to. You want to give them preparation? Won’t have them prepare their message. You want to have them, you know they’re gonna go out and they’re going to speak on behalf of the school. They have questions. They’re gonna I want to, you know, you know, curate and really define their message. Probably university. That’s a bigger bureaucracy to so some of their messaging may have to be approved, but sizes smaller midsize shop. Well, College University could be a mid size small shop. You don’t need to be two months out in advance. We’ll give you an example. Influencer. Yeah, so I’ll give you an example. We did a campaign we ran a campaign for Why you in New York University and this was three years ago. We’ve done one recently also, but the 1st 1 that we did of slogan was I m y you and Lin Manuel Miranda was actually a honorary graduate of Achieve University. So We engaged with him for a video several weeks before, But then the video only launched the day before. So it’s about lining up that strategy. Decided that would be a nice shot. Exactly. I shot started every every campaign’s not gonna have a Lin Manuel Miranda. But that’s, you know, kind of an example of someone finding people who have that broad appeal and that broad network to be able to, you know, take your message further. All right. Um, what else do we have to have in place? Yeah, in advance. So them the were only on the in advanced stage. We’re not even into the way. Have 10 minutes left. So the second thing is really, really second thing is really taking messaging. Very serious. So we’re still in the preparation we’re so ever. So I’ll tell you, Tony. Oh, everything. Everything happens in preparation. Okay. If you know what I always say that once your campaign starts, it’s already over. There’s nothing you can do about it once it starts. You know, once it starts, you just if you’re waiting to it for to start for to be successful, you’re gonna lose all your friends. Okay? Yeah, because you’re just gonna be harassing people, like throughout that radcampaign beating down the door for wait. We don’t want that. That’s not that’s not the outcome that we’re trying t. Okay, It all happens before I really wanted thio off. Okay? Yeah. So the second thing is just taking your messaging very seriously. Um, and Gladwell talks about it compares it to, like, you know, the stickiness factor. You can have good messaging. Are you gonna have missing that actually sticks, right. So taking, going to the depth of your cause and your appeal and really defining the truth in the essence of what you’re trying to say. But then churning that into a bite size, you know, congest oppcoll message that has that has legs, okay. And a message that is going to be memorable easily. Big headlines will be able to, you know, the think different, open happiness. You know, those type of messaging, it works wonders in crowdfunding. And it’s so important because you know, the distance between your message and your conversion is actually really, really close. You know, you’re going on on social media and you’re saying, you know, getting to the core of an organization, Really? So getting to the heart of organization and making a real beautiful, you know? Well, well, well positioned. Ask right. You can see it conversion instantly. Be just moments instantly. And that’s what’s important, right? So 20 years ago, when you had a great man, you’re doing a billboard. You couldn’t really measure the results in the conversion of the building. Well X amount of eyes walking down next month. Today, messaging is so much more critical. You can’t mess with that because it’s like there’s so much you can gain with a better message. People are going to see some that’s really gonna be compelling. They’re gonna take action. You’re gonna have feedback immediately, instantly. And that’s also good with testing. So you can text messages. You contest the messages, you can tweak messages. Okay. Messaging? Yes. 30. Glad we’ll talk about the power of context. Okay, so context is that the timing is the right environment. The right moves, you know, it’s social. Are people prepared for it? Right. So on a practical level, you know, the do’s and don’ts of timing. And so you know, you know, for for ce que no for typical organization you want to think about. Okay? December’s a great month. You know, you’re on fund-raising. I want time up and lead my fund-raising My my crowd from the campaign to happen You’re in Line it up with your and fundez latto content. It should be leveraged year and fund-raising thing. Right? Um, if you are a religious organization, it should be before the holidays tied into tight to the holidays where people are in the mood of e-giving worth tied around Christmas for people in the, you know, in the in the giving season. So timing is really, really important. And then in the don’ts, you know, timing around Passover? Exactly. Yes. The Passover is coming up soon. It’s a great time. We have a lot of campaigns happening. Be Christmas. Just a Catholic name. Yeah, I was trying pandering. You’re pandering. Necessary called you out here. Listen. Martignetti sounds Catholic. Culwell call at Christmas. Go ahead from New York, Jewish or Christian? Celebrated Christmas. You know, it’s everywhere. You can’t get away from it. You know, I heard that, um my kids are still wondering why they don’t have a Christmas tree. That they’re not getting it um, it’s just everywhere, you know. Um, you know, it’s interesting on it. Before this company I work for my brother started a virtual currency company. This was 2012 Virtual what? Virtual currency. Currency 1012. No. One way ahead, Right. Guys got back. It was where he was just too much of a vision or way ahead. Right? So you’re talking about and there’s actually I’ve been in the last six months I’ve actually seen already three businesses that have almost the exact identical business model. Tow what we what he what he created and what we were trying to create that genius. Brilliant. Nothing bad timing right through these other three of taking off other’s movements. There’s a whole ecosystem today. Virtual currencies go today, so timing is really, really important, you know? Are you coming out with your message? Where than even the environment is ready for it? Look at that. Remember the immigration campaign that you don’t let your brother listen to this? Yeah, sure. Does he know I really wrote that rodeo? How I wrote about this kind of threw him under a bus. You know, zoho thing for him, you know, it’s it’s, it’s he’s a genius, you know? He’s, you know, he’s too smart. It’s got no time, no time, no good. You can’t invent the car now. Exactly. You remember the image of the campaign that Facebook krauz from campaign that raised like $35,000,000 for, you know, for for the immigration organization in D. C. Was a 35,000,000 crowdster. It was a $35,000,000 crowdster. That organization, before that campaign struggled to reach $1,000,000 a year fund-raising. They didn’t even have a budget of more of $1,000,000. Here they are, the timing with the entire immigration fiasco that’s that’s going on. Someone launches a campaign on their behalf, or they launch shevawn exactly sure who launched it within weeks. $35,000,000 from tens of townspeople. And and you should. You know it’s not about being an ambulance chaser. You don’t want to take advantage of situations but should be looking out for you. That’s that’s grabbing a hook Exactly. If there’s immigration news and you’re in the immigration space, I think if you don’t grab a hook, your risk being irrelevant, and I’ve had guests who have said that, and I believe it myself. I just I just repeat everything. Guess yeah. Bring smart. Don’t have any knowledge of your own. I have a good memory. All right, let’s move on. Really? Have a couple minutes left, like three or four. So more things. More things. Preparation. Mushy, please. So I’ll tell you. Great. So So you have your So let’s say you lined up all these ingredients, right? And you you line up your power of the few. You get your influences lined up to really help you can. You got amazing messaging, right? And then you have the timing’s perfect. You get even a little setup, right? Roger. And for what you’re missing right now is it’s not enough. No, no, not sufficiently. You’re missing. You’re missing. What you’re missing here is velocity. Okay, so think take up. Sorry about that. Take a plane. Take off. Right, Guys, watch one off. Yeah, take a plane. That’s mine. I put mine on airport road airplane mode for you. Uh, if I could get the same courtesy put in his pocket, but he still didn’t put it. Still did not know. You only gave me 30 minutes and going in airplane mode, yet just took in his pockets. It’s still gonna vibrate. All right, So take a plane, right? It has to reach a certain speed within a certain amount of space. Was a certain amount of time actually living velocity velocity on and lift and lift in the upper wings and believe that teacher above pressure below. So all that scientific stuff, But the point is that you need thes things to happen within within a specific amount of time for us to be able to create that combustion for it actually take off right field to hit the tipping point. Yeah. Okay, So, um, I’ll give an example of what things? People we see that people are usually doing wrong they can improve on. Is that, you know, yesterday had to come from at my talk. I asked someone like you who’s been involved in a crowd from the campaign dahna peer-to-peer of campaign, for example. And one person Me. Okay. And I said, Well, tell me how it went in these and she said, Well, they called me out, they sent me an email and then there was an event, anything, and they said you know, would you take on a campaign a page to raise $3600 for the organization. Right? And she said yes. Okay. And then when was the end? When was the organ it? When was the campaign culminating? Four months. So is the worst words four months of her life. Okay, so you need a much less time than you think you do, right? You think more time equals more money? No, no, no, it doesn’t. Less time equals more money because, you know, people are just inundated with so much information. And if you if you have the right ingredients to motivate the person to say yes, I’ll give right with by telling them, you know, whether you let’s say you put a matching component on the campaign right where you said in this and limited amount of time, your money will be matched, right? Right. Or you put it. You have a certain goal that you have to reach within a certain amount of time, that urgency, their impact recognition with everybody’s gonna be recognized. The campaign. You have all those ingredients and you have the right man. You have the right people pushing it and the context is right. You need very, very little time to actually take off. The majority of our campaigns happen in 24 36 hours. Millions are being raised in 24 3rd toe with weeks of preparation. So if you want to hit a tipping point, you can’t have, you know, miles of runway. You’ll never take off. You just drive right off the runway, and that’s it. So shorten the runway and and and prepare the ingredients that you need, as we just mentioned. But that should be all be done in the maintenance hangar. Exactly playing now, in case that wasn’t obvious. Yeah, you’re feeding off, Tony. We feel about each other is done in manufacturing. I mean, you go way back, but it’s done in maintenance, maintenance and cleaning. Yes. Okay. All right. All right. Uh, give me another minute. You got, uh, Can I? Yeah. You got one more thing. I want to wrap it up. Dahna without mentioning charity dot com. Can you Can you summarize or you want to give another tip? You know, listen, I’m here today, and I don’t do a lot of the conferences, but it’s it’s It’s fantastic to be to be here. I think the Auntie unconference is really nice, you know, some of their like way big. And there’s not a lot of you know, too big to have conversations and too small. I think this is a really, really nice sized dent. Unconference. I’ve met a lot of wonderful people here, a lot of people doing a lot of innovative stuff in this space. It’s it’s encouraging to be here to see a lot of people, you know, working towards the same goal. Yeah, all right, we’ll leave it there. Thank you for having actually. Don’t don’t walk away yet. Your your phone is Your watch is buzzing. He’s monisha Hecht. He’s the chief innovation officer at charity. C H a R D y. That’s enough shout outs for that, and you’re with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 ntcdinosaur 2019 non-profit Technology Conference, Portland, Oregon All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our Partners Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software maintaining separate accounts for each fund-raising daily expenses and reporting to the board are all challenging. That’s why Cougar Mountain created Denali fund-raising osili Fund, a complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profits. You know, like the Park Denali. They have a free 60 day trial at tony dot m. A slash Cougar Mountain Denali, of course, is also a mountain, but it’s Ah park in a mountain Denali fund that m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now, time for Tony’s take to the 450th non-profit radio is July 26th. Yes, we’ve been at this nine years times 50 shows. There you go. Who’s gonna be with us? Scott Stein, of course. Live music. You gotta have Scott and his 88 singing. Ah, our theme song. Cheap red wine Live in the studio. Um, of course, our creative producer, Claire Meyerhoff, live in the studio. Call ins from all our contributors. Giveaways? Yes, giveaways. I’m sure we’ll have cure a coffee. The coffee owned by the dentist that provides dental care for coffee growers and coffee workers. As you buy their bags of coffee, they’ll be there. A sponsor of the 450th will be giving away some bags of cure coffee. Always great fun. Um, we’ll have some some comedic thing. It’s too early to tell you. Don’t You don’t need to know at this point if I told you you’d forget anyway, So just be tuned in for the 4/50 and you’ll see what we’re doing. We’re giving away and, uh, what we put together. All right, that’s it. That’s Tony’s. Take two Now here is C. R M plus email plus website. Tough. Welcome to Tony Martin. Non-profit radio coverage of 1990. See, that’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me now is Isaac Shalev. He is president at Sage 70 and his topic is solving the C r M plus email plus website equation. Isaac. Welcome. Thanks very much for having me, Tony. A real pleasure. You have a real radio voice. Good podcast voice. I should start one you have right now. You have one already, right? I’m cheating. I do. I’ve been podcasting for a few years on a totally different top shot out your podcast. What is it? My podcast is called on board games, and it’s about board games. Eso head overto on board games dot net to check it out. Okay, Wonderful. That that’s obviously a part time passion of yours again. Yeah, I I design board games on the side. You designed them. I was gonna ask you, Do you talk more about classic or contemporary games? We mostly talk about contemporary games. We talk about the games industry, which is exploding these days, and we feature interviews with industry guests and talk about what’s happening at conventions and things like that. That’s what’s fabulous about podcasting. The niche niche, a board games podcast. Yeah, you could go all the way down the rabbit hole in a podcast. And there’s somebody down there listening, doing it. Yes, whatever it is. Yeah, all right, Uh, let’s do our equation. So what? What’s the problem here? Well, I think it’s an opportunity, really. More than a problem of the opportunity is to be able to know more about the people who are engaged in your mission. Whether that’s donors who are coming to your website to learn more about you or who are reading your emails because they want to know more about the work that you’re doing, um, or whether it’s program participants who you want to track as they go through your programs. You want to be able to wherever somebody touches you, no and track and engaged, which means you need a database that can store all that engagement information. But you also need connections between where the engagement happens. Right when you send an email, you need to know who opened the email in order to track that they opened it and cared about it. Same thing with the Web. When somebody visits your website, you want to know that they came and what they clicked on that’s gonna help you communicate with them about the parts of your work that they care most about. So that’s the promise of C. R M. When it’s integrated with email and with the website. The technical challenges enormous, though, because these are different systems by different vendors and different underlying technology, and making them connect is not trivial. So we’ve spent the last 15 years working on this and we’re getting there. We’re getting closer and closer each year. Are the vendors cooperating with each other? I think that over time we’ve seen a few cycles of how this kind of works. So initially we had a lot of unbundled services. You had your website on your website was I mean, even think about the pre WordPress days, right? When when people were spinning up websites on bear code. Um, and you had databases that didn’t even talk to the Web. I mean, if you were working with earlier versions of razors at your donor perfect, they didn’t have any connection to the Web. But all that’s changed a lot. Now they’re all in one systems. You know, Neon is a vendor that’s pretty popular in that space that provide content management systems as well as email marketing platforms as part of the core CR M database offering. But you can still do it. Lots of other ways and enterprise solutions are often more of a Let me pick of the best in breed for each service I want and then integrate through AP eyes, Um, and that can be very powerful, but it’s challenging, not on just the technical level, but on the training you need to train staff to be able to use multiple different systems. And you need governance. You need somebody to oversee how different systems connect and make sure that the right pieces of data move to the right place is a lot to this. All right, well, that’s what we called it. An equation, you know, were straightforward. There’s some math ap eyes. Let’s just make make that clear. We have jargon jail on non-profit radio. You’ve trapped me in. So I didn’t drop you. I was your for your You’re free falling every rolling. I walked right in and slammed the door. Okay, I know that in a p I was like, It’s a call from one to another, but you you don’t know what it stands for. You can define it better than I can. So, uh, a p I is a way in which one system defines how it wants to be spoken to buy another system. So when you use an A p I, what you’re doing is you’re sort of saying I want to move information like your name and your email address from my website, where I captured it in a form to my C R m so that I can see if maybe you’ve been a donor and I can add engagement record, I can add a touchpoint to your record. So my cr m will say, Oh, that’s great. If you want to pass me information, send it to me in a file that looks like this, right? So send it to me within column one Put the name in column to put the email and package that into a you know, an extra accept ostomel far, whatever it is. And send that to me. That’s basically what an A p I is. It’s how to structure data so that you can move from one system to another stand for something. Yeah, it stands for automatic program interface. I believe I’m not sure about the A Okay. Program interface makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Um, is there an advantage? Thio open source versus proprietary in terms of the three working together. If if you’re all open source, are you more likely to have compatibility? Oh, um or not. I don’t think that, uh, you necessarily will have more compatibility. What’s true is that open source products worm or committed to an open standard s o. They were more committed to offering AP eyes that allows data to move in and out of systems. And there were a lot of and there remained a lot of vendors who don’t yet have fully open AP eyes. In some cases, like blackbaud has been spending quite a bit of time developing their sky a p I that promises to allow open access. But the reality is that if you’re sitting in Razor’s Edge seven, it’s hard to move data in and out because there aren’t really open AP eyes. So yes, if you were in an open source system, you probably had access to open a P eyes on at least one side of things. I think generally that modular architecture, that idea that the product that I’m building should allow data to move in and out has become more broadly embraced no matter what, and open source products have faded, I think, in their relevance to the non-profit space over the last few years, So C v. C R M is no longer ah leading C R M product in the market without sails. For Salesforce’s open source business sales forces of proprietary proprietary yes, sales force is owned by the Sales Force company. I know, and I heard somebody say that it was open. Source. Sales Force has open AP eyes So let’s let’s define the difference here. Open source means that the coda that the product was written in is available to anyone like Firefox. Right? Mozilla makes Firefox. Mozilla’s an open source, right? So you can take that code. You can do whatever you want to it. You don’t have to pay anyone for it on. That’s what open source means. Sales force, on the other hand, has open ap eyes. Which means how could that I could? No. Course not. You have to report sales for separation. Yeah, All right, So So, yes, but you do want to look for that, but you do want a little lackluster. Sorry, I’m the only one. It’s Tony martignetti now, probably. Unfortunately, not somebody else’s not greater. You’re stuck here. Okay, so, yes, maybe was open a p I Maybe that’s what I misunderstood. Well, the trick is also that you have to be really concerned about the word ap I because there are, um a lot of folks out there saying we have a p eyes and they’re not wrong. They do have a P eyes, but they may not be opening all of the different tables in the database to you. So you may wanna track information in your c r M that you can’t pull from another system. Because, for example, um, you might have an email system where you can pull whether a person opened a specific email on whether they clicked on a specific email. But maybe you can’t pull which email they unsubscribes from. That’s just not an available thing to pull from there a p I So you’ve got some functionality. But when you made the decision oh, they have an A p I. Let’s use them. You might not have been aware of the limitations. S o a. P. I doesn’t mean all the data can move easily, and you really need to explore and make sure by examining the AP I documentation to dive down. Yeah, to know that it’s going to share with you the with your other system, the information that you’re expecting to carry over, right? I mean, you can imagine a donor system saying they have open ap eyes. So you could pull everybody’s name and email address, but not how much they donated. That’s not super helpful, But you could still describe it as an open A P. I Okay. Okay, good. Thank you. Straighten me out, Trainable. Stick with me. But I’m training. Um uh, learning about. See, the databases of records, FBI’s integration methods, Um, a plan for getting these technologies to talk to one another. So we have. Have you done your session yet? I’ll be doing my session tomorrow. Okay. But it’s a repeat. I did it last year. You did? No, I didn’t capture you last year. No. No. Yeah, yeah. I was doing a session at the time that you offered to me. Okay. You really gotta schedule. Maybe I invited you and you turned me down. That’s possible, too. Way invite. More than we can refill. It’s possible. It’s possible. I’m glad to be here this year. Yeah, I’m glad you are to thank you for coming this year. Well, I’ve been listening for a long time, so I think I’m excited. Thio have a chance to be on the other end of the mike. Thank you. Glad. Um, Okay. So Well, what only one with just a little bit about the fact that you’re you’re you’ve been listening for so long and gratified to be a gift. A guest. What? Well, I was I was gonna suggest that we talk a little bit about how, um today the need for integration is even greater because our stakeholders expect us to know everything right. When you come to an organization, you expect them to know whether you’ve been to an event or whether you were engaged in a particular cause. There’s just no separation from from the perspective of the donor of, ah, stakeholder between the different departments within an organization, you know, you call it, and a lot of that expectation is driven by what we are experiencing e commerce for sure. Very smart companies like Zappos, Amazon on and maybe even buy some smart charities that have raised the bar. So now we’re expecting I mean, why don’t you have the same? You have access to the same technology they do if you’re willing to invest in it. So the bar is hyre, you know, step up your game absolutely and fairly right in that we came preaching the importance of working with each individual and segmenting our communication so that everyone feels a personal connection. And if you’re gonna talk that game when the donor calls, you better know who they are. And that means that you need someone at that phone in front of a terminal where they can type in a name and see the full view of what this person has done with your organization. So the stakes are rising in terms of being able to do this and the means by which we do it keep multiplying, right. We have Maur and more channels. So it used to be that we were just doing direct mountain. We did email. Then we did text to give. And now we have ah peer-to-peer platforms. We have so many more ways in which we’re engaging. And usually it’s another vendor. It’s another system. It’s another database through which we add this functionality and a couple of years go by and some CR M pulls that functionality in and you get increased functionality within your core system. How are we gonna make this happen though you have? You obviously have to have expertise to do this. Thio, have these cross platform communications. So 11 tip, one big tip. Here’s if you listen to nothing else in this interview. I want everyone to walk away with this one big idea. Have a network map. A network map is a map that shows all the different systems that you have and arrows pointing to which system pushes data into which place. And this doesn’t sound that complicated. And the reality is, it’s not hard to do. You list all your systems and then you draw your arrows. And when you’re drawing your arrows, just indicate whether it’s an automatic move of data or whether it’s manual. Are you downloading the spreadsheet and uploading it to a new system? That’s manual. Is there an A P I. Is there an integration that does it without you having to do anything automatic? Just make that map, and now you have an opportunity, right, because now you can see where your manual processes. Maybe there’s something you can do about that where your automated ones and also you know, you you don’t want to trip over yourself. You can create loops right where one system updates the next one, the next one and the next one, and then they circle back and making a map avoids that trouble. So that’s the first step in thinking through a problem like this is make the map and figure out what’s in the middle. What’s your database of record? Where you gonna collect all that data? And if you don’t have one, that’s your first mission. Oh, if there’s nothing at your core if you don’t have a database of record, if you don’t have the place where you keep all the data, you really don’t have a way to centralize time for our last break. Turn to communications. Full service Strategic communications and PR for non-profits Turn to helps you tell compelling stories. Advocate for your cause and make a difference through media relations, content, marketing, communications and branding strategy. They’re at turn hyphen to dot CEO not dot com that CEO now here’s back to, but loads more time. Of course, for CR M plus email plus website, there’s there’s some new methods for dealing with kind of cross platform stuff. You’ve got all these tools and you’re trying Thio to be able to see he threw it through and across all of them, so you may have heard folks talking about data, warehousing, data, warehousing is it? Sounds kind of, I don’t know, futuristic in some ways, but futuristic in the most boring way, right? We don’t get flying cars. We got data warehouses, but a data warehouse is basically pouring every other database that you have into one big database. But you don’t have that database do anything, right? So in other words, just doesn’t delivery males. It doesn’t do any transaction. You can query from it right on. And so then you can query across all your different systems. And so you say, Find me the person who received these three e mails who donated at least $100 over the last year. And who cares about owls and they live in New Jersey. Perfect. Right. And I can, even though that data lives in multiple data. Very right. But if you can make that query right, then you can send that email that says who gives a hoot. And that person in New Jersey is gonna open that email right now. You’ve sold me on the value of a data warehouse. How do you create such a thing? Well, data warehouses are created mostly with open source tools. Actually s o. A lot of times you take a my sequel database and you use a P I’s to pull in data from all your different systems. Sometimes you have to download stuff and upload stuff. There’s data extraction transformation and loading process is E. T ells that go along with that? But the key is that you need and I say key because it really is about what’s called a primary key in a database. Every line every row in that database is represented by a unique identify. Something has to be unique, right? And the trouble is that everything that has the nation’s my information systems degree from Carnegie Mellon it’s paying off. Also antiquated. But you know, as antiquated as it is, that was true in 8429 week. Identify where each row right and when there is such a unique identifier than you can really make the magic happen. The trouble is, when you push three different databases into one, each database had its own unique identifier. So you Tony martignetti are 1 28 in this database and your 3 96 in that database in your 4 25 donordigital base. I’m in the employee database, right. So we need to create 1/4 unique identify in the warehouse that identifies you across those three systems. So there’s some work to do. And that’s why we recommend that non-profits do work with experts around this because data warehousing can be complex to get off the ground. But it has incredible returns in terms of transparency, invisibility of your most valuable data across multiple systems. So this means that you don’t have to take everyone’s favorite system away from them or the system that you just spent a whole bunch of money implementing. You don’t have to get rid of it because it doesn’t integrate with that system. You can keep everyone working with the tools they love while still creating transparent information and reporting for decision makers. OK, I’m gonna guess that sage 70 will, uh, will help you with this. So what’s age 70 will do is help you assess your digital infrastructure. What are all the tools that you’re using? Are they well integrated? Do you have the right staff and skills to leverage them? A lot of times you know, the trouble that you have is not your tool doesn’t work. The trouble that you have is that strategy. You’re not sure what you’re trying to achieve or how to measure it, or it’s that skills. You know what you’re trying to achieve. You just don’t have the people who can do it or they’re structured poorly. You’ve got them scattered across different departments and they’re not effective and you need to centralize them, whatever it might be, The tool itself is usually relatively far down the list, and that’s because we’re in 2019 and we’re lucky. A lot of the tools have gotten a lot better. There’s been a lot of feature convergence, so any tulani CR m you pick is gonna have a lot of the same features. And it’s less about nailing the tool and much more about understanding what you wanted to achieve, making sure your staffed for it, making sure that the data is traveling through each system the right way. So that’s what saved 70 helps with when you actually want to build the thing. They’re specialists to build that thing. This folks here, um, right here it ntcdinosaur recommend everyone talked to a fracture is a great partner in this O Matic. If you’re on razor’s edge is another great partner for this s o there folks out there who specialize in setting up your data warehouse. And it’s a process I really, really recommend that you get expertise for Ah, but ah, start with strategy, though. Figure out what’s trying to do. Right? Right. What? Why? Yeah. What’s our goal? Yeah, what’s our purpose? And which information do we need to raise the visibility of? Because one of those, one of the worst things that you can do is build a warehouse that lets you see everything and then try and look at everything. No. You gotta look at the five things that matter most. What else you gonna talk about tomorrow? Well, I think we’re gonna talk on the agenda. Well, we’re gonna talk a little bit about the, uh the different ways that vendors offer this kind of integration. So there are all in one vendors that offer you a lot of different tools under one roof. And that’s great because it’s easy to train staff in that you see familiar screens over and over again. The data on the back end is integrated, so they’re really effective. However you trade Cem flexibility, you may prefer a different email tool, but the vendor doesn’t have that. They haven’t all in one, so you have to stick with them. You might go with, you know, totally the opposite. On end of the spectrum, you might go with a platform, whether that sales force or dynamics where you ca NBA build whatever you want on this kind of core foundation, and that gives you tremendous flexibility, you can build whatever you want. It also gives you a lot of costs and challenges your skills because you can build anything if you have the money for it in the know how. Um, should you build anything that’s usually ended? Question. And there’s the maintenance of the of the custom. Build right, and you have to budget not just for the maintenance, but here’s the real l tricky one. When you build a custom system, nobody can train you in it, but you, so you have to now build a training capacity to continue supporting your system. This isn’t you know. I’ll say this over and over again. We spend too much time thinking about what it’s gonna cost us to buy our tech tools to build our tech tools to maintain our tech tools. We should be spending twice that much time thinking about how to acquire the right staff, howto retain them and how to train them to use our tools. That’s the hard part. I mean, so many people non-profits have tremendous passion and tremendous skillsets, but not often great technical skillsets. That’s part of what a successful non-profit needs to learn how to do is in bed strong skillsets in technology in their staff and be willing to invest. You have to be invested in it either either through staff or or outside help, right? I mean, you know the old joke, right? What happens if I You spend all my money training my staff and then they leave? Well, what happens if you don’t spend the money training your staff and they stay? I haven’t heard that joke. I don’t know that one. I haven’t heard that. All right, E. I wish we had a laugh track. Have an awful on trains. I’m not sure it would have been too loud. You have a good, hearty laugh yourself. That’s all right. Um, okay. We still have another couple minutes together. Uh, what else are you gonna? I don’t know. You know, based on your session description, I feel like we’ve covered everything, but we can’t have covered it all because we haven’t spent 75 minutes together. Well, we certainly haven’t. I think that, uh, one of the tricks that you have to really, uh, ask yourself is Do I pursue a C r M driven strategy? And this is something that I want every small non-profit listening to think hard about because, you know, I sat with the client ones and they were talking about how they wanted to put everything in a c r M. And what should we do? And I asked, How many donors do you have that you communicate with? And they said 500. And I said, That’s a wonderful number. You don’t need to C R M. You need a telephone. 500 donors call two a day, right? There’s your not at a point where you need the scale. And therefore you shouldn’t hamper yourself with the You know what a system is gonna tie you to, uh, there’s another small non-profit Smallish. I mean, talk about 30 employees. So not tiny. Um, but, uh, 30 employees couple $1,000,000 in revenue And they you’re using sales force, which is, by the way, fair, very challenging for small organizations to use effectively. But they had really the cleanest salesforce implementation I’ve ever seen. Data was hygienic. It was kept well, they had a sale sports admin on staff. They had another part time sales force person who really did a great job of pushing all of their donordigital and all of their program stuff into sales force. They were running every program out of sales force. And I kind of wanted to actually have a panel tomorrow about managing your managing using a c R M. To manage program. Yeah, yeah, it’s It’s certainly part of the promise of sales forces you can cross from donor to constituent tow program participants, and they made it work. However, however, there there’s a but there’s a big but lurking at the end of this one, which is that even though they were doing such a great job of that whenever they wanted to spin up a new program and they’re young enough that they’re still spinning up new programs and thinking of new ways to solve their problems. Whenever they wanted to spend up a new program, they got stuck. They got stuck in a six month sales force development cycle. We have a new program. How are we gonna administer it through sales force? We need to create new forms we need to create new business logic. We need to test it right. We need to go through the process of implementing this program into sales force. That’s really slow. You can’t sew a small organization. One of its advantages is agility and flexibility. When you take on a bigger than your class system, you may sacrifice some of that agility. Eso, you know, in our advice to them, was not to get rid of Salesforce, right? Our advice to them was, and this is crazy. But our advice to them was spend the first year of every programme in Excel and I know right, I’m a tech consultant telling you Excel is good for things, but iterated rapidly be able to be flexible. Don’t tie your data into hard relationships. Admittedly, you lose some of the benefits of structure data. It’s true. But what you gain is the ability to figure out how it’s gonna work for real. And once you figure that out, once you have some process maturity, right and you figured out what the right way to do it is, then go to Salesforce, right? Then put it into your sales force. So that’s something that I really want folks thinking about lean startup principle. That’s right. Start, start lean. You’ll learn your pivot if you need to. And then when you’ve got something that’s a year old and and proven mean, the program may not even take off right. You could spend more time in sales force development than the life of the program. Conceivably right. So when you’ve got something that you know you’re gonna stick with and you know what data capture, um, then spend your time and money on your sales force. Implementation? Yeah. Don’t overbuild your infrastructure. I mean, it’s the same idea is certainly out of the outside. It’s that same idea that you know, uh, if you’re gonna build a public space and you want to know where to put the walkways, what do you do? You wait. You wait and see where the path. Yes, yes. So it’s the same ideas and favorite. Figure out where you’re going to get a lot of bang from your infrastructure investment. Where is it going to really pay off for you on? And it’s a little bit, I think, counter to how we sometimes think about this, where it’s become so de facto that Oh, you’re gonna need to C R M and you need to see our strategy. It’s not clear to me that you need to C. R M strategy. It’s clear to me that if you want to keep track of your most important stakeholders, you’re gonna need a method for doing so. And if you have enough of them, a C R M is probably the method. Okay, okay. Give us a wrap up than solving the C r M plus email plus website equation. Well, the first thing I should say is, don’t forget, carry the one is there. Is there a solution to this equation? Yeah, I think there is a solution to the equation on, and it starts with understanding what your goals are. If you really do communicate to people. If you’re an advocacy, Oregon. You really do a ton of e mailing in a ton of segmentation. A ton of personalization, then? Yeah, you need your C r m and your email and your website to talk to one another and just not. Not just that. You need your social integrated and you need your pita pema integrated and you need your text messaging. So, yeah, that’s your core business is communicating effective segmented messaging in order to inspire actions. So it makes sense that you use that infrastructure. But that’s not gonna be the case for every non-profit. So understand. Visualize what advantage, what benefit you want out of this, and that’ll help shape your investment. What you want into this? That’s one. The second thing is, you solve this problem with the right people more than you solve it with the right tools. Invest in the right people. Whether that’s advice from consultants or whether that staff and their expertise and skills, that’s where you’re going to get the biggest force multiplier the right people. All right, Isaac shall live. He is president at Sage 70 helped us solve the C R M plus email plus website equation. I thank you very much. Thanks, Isaac. Thank you, Tony. Great to be here. Pleasure. Thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 and T. C. All of our interviews at 19 ntcdinosaur brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much Being with us next week, it’s the week before the 450th show. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner. C p A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers weather cps dot com But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution specifically for non-profits 20 dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, full service, strategic communications and PR. Turn hyphen to dot C o ah creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Leibowitz is the line producer producer. The show’s show schnoll Media is buy shoes in Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scott Stein be with me next week for non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be Greek. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show Beyond potential. Live Life, Your Way on talk radio dot N Y c aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Fridays 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Theo Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David here. Gardner, interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern Time. As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design. That’s all around us. Right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. 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Nonprofit Radio for March 30, 2018: Financial Management Software

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Karen Graham & Andy Wolber: The Donor Journey

Nonprofit Radio is never boring. Even talking about financial management software. Listen as Idealware publicly releases their guide to selecting the right software for your nonprofit. It’s important! Trust me, Karen Graham and Andy Wolber will convince you.

 

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me, i’d be thrown into assaf ago dahna if you made me speak the words you missed today’s show financial management software don’t leave you do need this non-profit radio is never boring even talking about financial management software. Listen as idealware publicly releases their guide to selecting the right software for your non-profit it’s important, trust me, karen graham and andy wolber will convince you i’m tony steak, too. You will join this club we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tell us i’m excited because we got an announcement here with public announcement, but s so i’m gonna introduce the people we’re going to be making. The announcement first is karen graham. She is a sought after speaker, trainer, writer and consultant with expertise in technology, leadership and innovation non-profit software and digital strategy. As ideal wears executive director she leads a team of researchers, presenters and writers who create technology. Information. Resource is that helped non-profits put their visions into action. She’s at karin t graham idealware is at idealware and idealware dot or ge. Andy wolber he’s, a technology consultant to non-profits. He teaches a course on non-profit and government technology for grand valley state university, and writes about google in the enterprise for tech republic. He’s at a wolber and wolber works. Dotcom welcome count graham and andy wolber. Thanks, tony. Somebody talk, please. Okay, okay, you’re welcome. My pleasure. I’m glad to have you thankyou for, ah, reserving your public announcement. Karen graham of this report for non-profit radio. What is the report? You don’t need to be back on the show and have a chance to talk about something brand new. Awesome, yes, i can hear the excitement in your voice. You might try to kick it up a little level a little notch, but i hear it, i hear it. What is the report, what we publicly announcing? This one is a guide to financial management software for nonprofit organizations, and i would say this is particularly suited for small and medium sized organizations, and i know that your audience, too so that’s great, absolutely and and for anybody who is thinking that maybe their current accounting software or financial management system is not meeting all of their needs, and they want to explore other options. Okay, we’re going to talk about cem ways you might you might know that some symptoms of that and, uh, we’ll go through the report and all let’s see let’s ah, quaint people remind, i love idealware i love the mission of idealware, but you will articulate it better than i i don’t know if you’ll be as enthusiastic as i am. I hope you will be remind people what does idealware all about? Well, i am the executive director, so you would hope that i would have enthusiasm. I am hopeful my fingers across. Yes. You know, tony, i thought it was it was kind of funny to me that you said the show was never boring even when we’re talking about financial management software. Because when you invited me, i was thinking like, i’m excited to be on the show, but you probably picked me to be on the most boring show of the whole year, so let’s, try not to make it that way. I’m excited about all of the work that idealware does even when we’re talking about a topic like this, which is maybe not the most sexy topic, i guess hyre i’m excited about all of our work because it helps people solve real problems and helps them operate there non-profit organization better and make good decisions without as much stress and uncertainty. We exist to help those people who work in non-profits who are responsible for technology decisions, but they don’t necessarily have a technology background, and so they need resource is they’re smart people, they need knowledge resource is to help them think through their decisions and help them understand trends and best practices. And so we do impartial research on technology topics, and then we publish guides and workbooks software reviews, and we also do a lot of online training and in person workshop to help people to make those kinds of decisions with confidence. Now i have ah first became aware of idealware years ago, before i knew there was a karen t graham affiliated with it because people used to recommend what the the the fund-raising data but was fund-raising database report was it was the c r m or was it? Fund-raising nancy now, with so many years ago, i can’t remember, but but it had to be good. Do you remember the official title of the one i think you’re talking about? The official title is the consumer’s guide to low cost donor-centric sustainers okay. And it’s now in a fourth edition, i believe, and that’s been one of our most downloaded publications ever. We used to yeah, people would refer it to refer me to it. Oh, and andy wolber don’t worry, we’re gonna get to you. I don’t want you not forgotten, andy, you’re there. I just want to get through some important info about idealware yeah, people used to just mention it to me. Like i said before, i even knew what idealware was, and so i went and looked at this report, and this is an analogy i make sometimes sometimes you don’t seem thrilled with this analogy that i make to consumers union, but to me, you’re the consumers union, their consumer reports that consumers union is the non-profit that creates consume reports of non-profit technology, you did these unbiased reports, we’re going to talk about how you make sure they’re unbiased and you now in that one, you had the that’s colorful side by side chart with features and, you know, dots for which features existed in different ones, and to me it was the consumer reports of non-profit software, i loved it, and we were i’ve been talking about idealware on non-profit radio on and off, and even before i like i said before, i knew there was a guarantee. Graham so, um, i don’t know how do you feel about that? Consumer reports analogy, i some people have compared us to consumers union, others have compared idealware to gartner or forest are sabat that doesn’t really bother me on a good okay. What? Okay, yeah, i think that all of those organisations are well respected and trusted. No resource is. And in a way, i’m proud that idealware would be in that same category. Yeah. Okay. Excellent. I that’s why i put you there an objective objective research. Okay, we have just like a minute and a half before break. Oh, andy, we’re going to bring you in after this first break. Karen, how do you assure us in a minute and a half that this report is unbiased? Objective, not sponsor driven, etcetera. I’m glad you asked about that. We have a very strict firewall between our editorial process and our funding process. And so on this report, i actually worked on securing funding through sponsorships. And the student reader might notice that the sponsors have products that are covered in this guide. But let me ask andy. Andy, did you know who the sponsors were? While you were working on the research? I had no clue. Better say no. Good. Okay, now, karen did karen, did he have an important thing? Did he ever ask? Did he ask? No. Okay, i want make sure he’s honestly could have one of our partners on the report. And important partner was fm a, and they contributed a lot of expertise to this report. And at one point there executive director asked me who the sponsors were and i said, you know ill that i can’t tell you who they are because i don’t want to buy us the research. So that’s something that we take very seriously. We we don’t let any of the people involved in the research team know who the sponsors were until the report is ready to publish. And it’s it’s, not a pay to play situation. Our sponsors are all very dedicated, teo. Advance. Acknowledge in the sector to helping people make better software choices, whether they choose their software or somebody else’s, they want to get fit. And so they committed teo funding this and letting us publish something that they got no approval over. All right. And he got to say two words before this break. He said no and know so thank you for that big contribution, andy. You’re done now know that’s not true, but we do have to take the next. Okay. Yes, we got to take a break. Pursuant. The current paper is demystifying the donor journey. You heard me last week talking to taylor shanklin about this. You heard it. So why do you need this thinking paper? You don’t. But for someone who did not hear the show, their life is incomplete. I might i would go. So far as to say, even inadequate without it, send them to the paper, then send them to last week’s show for more detail. Their life will be complete. You will be a hero. It’s demystifying the donor journey it’s at tony dot m a slash pursuant radio. Now back to financial management software guide. Okay, andy wolber let’s bring you in your research around this thing. What what was the research process? How’d you go about creating this guide for us? Well, we looked at the start of the existing i’ve worked with la non-profits so i brought a lot of personal expertise to talk to some folks, various organizations that i’ve worked with over the years that deal with various financial packages and also spoke a little with some of the effort make insulting who are working with of wide variety non-profits and systems as well. So we looked at the landscape. What is this fm a karen mentioned it also does that stand for something anymore? Or are they like aarp? That doesn’t want to be the association american, retired persons or nail that doesn’t no longer wants to be the national abortion rights action league, are they? Just an fm a or do they stand for something? Yeah, karen, i’ll defer the u n if that’s an acronym or not, do they stand for anything? I mean, i know the stand for things, but what do their letters stand for anything or now? Yeah, i think it started as a financial management, so see it? I don’t want to say the wrong big radio, though, but they just go buy fm now and it’s an organization, a nonprofit organization that provides consulting and outsource services for accounting and financial management for other non-profit okay. And what was their role in this guide? Andy, do you want to talk about that? Sure. Well, what was interesting is so they don’t have had initial ideas and an initial list. Sorry. Hey, hear the systems we see and use a lot. I looked at that and said, well, you know, what about these? And so we widen that search and scope a little bit. Andi also did some tweaking updating of some of the so our features and focus. So we brought into the look a little, uh, based on just serve other packages that are also used in the field there’s a wide variety of solutions, there’s several things that vendors have moved systems from, you know, being client server only to cloud. And so that there’s been a lot of movement in this in this sector in this industry, so we started with some of their their ideas and their list way expanded added to it, andy i well, since, since karen says she doesn’t exactly mind my analogy to consumers, union consumers report which not exactly overwhelming endorsement, but i’ll take it from her. I analogize this to their toe a buyer’s guide. It looks like a buyer’s reads like a buyer’s guide to me. Um, now, um, let’s, let’s define a little deeper. What what it is we’re buying. What? What characterizes a financial management system? What, what? What pieces doesn’t have that that we’re thinking about possibly changing if we’re reading this buyer’s guide? Sure. Well, at the core of this is a system that helps you, you know, understand helps a non-profit major, typically an executive director and other leadership, both staff in volunteer understand where the organization is financially and so in a small organization, that sort of thing typically sits at a no it’s core it’s the, you know, accounting system. So you’re just you’re really trying to understand what you’re where your financial position is, okay in the twenty, thirty years ago term aarp enterprise resource planning no, sir. Came in tow scope. Um, and those sorts of systems started to heimans allow an organisation to track financial for on the financial implications ations of both products and people activities throughout the organization. So as you get bigger, your financial system starts saying compass mohr system and i saw a sort of a spectrum of you may even mention this in the report. Maybe that’s that’s where i got the idea from spectrum. So there was simple. And then there was a little more sophisticated in the middle. And then there was the aarp. These enterprise resource planning systems eyes that affair. Is that a fair assessment of what the spectrum looks like? Yeah. And and what that is and what’s interesting about it is that unlike in some organizations where you start and delineate by the size of an organization, you know, a small organization has a small system in the financial management world. It’s a little different. It’s more. Related to how complex or how many things you need to track. So a small organisation with a large number of funders and a large number of programs actually has a pretty complex accounting and financial management, so they may actually need amore complex system than a organization has a very large budget but really has only two or three programs and two or three funders, okay, makes a lot of sense. All right. Um, uh, charity graham let’s bring you back. We were going to say this several times throughout the show, but where can people get this report? Oh, great question if you if you’re listening to the show live, if you go teo idealware dot or ge it’s right on our home page, it won’t stay there forever. So if you’re somebody listening to the podcast later in time, you could just go on idealware dot or ge and there’s a search box on the home page. If you just type in the word financial, you’ll get right to it. And then you can enter your name and email it just to register and then it’s a free download. You’ll get a pdf document. Okay, thank you. For not asking. Name, address, organization, title budget size, annual revenue, zip code. You know, etcetera. Thank you, it’s. Very. You know, i bristle at those things. So it’s. Well, we personally asked a few of those things, but they’re optional. And that just helps us to make sure that what we’re sending two people is relevant in the future. If they option to receive our e mails. But that’s also optional. Okay, i guess when i saw the form, i realized they were optional. Okay, very good. Thank you for that. Um okay, let’s. Stay with you. Karen, how might we know? What is some symptoms now? The report goes through, like six or six things or something. That’s not just touch on what some symptoms might be for needing a new financial system like, you know, just two or three. And these people are gonna get the reporter. I mean, it’s free for god’s sake. So they’re going to get it so that’s, just touch on a couple, right? I’ll try not to overwhelm me with too much detail here. One thing that stood out to me here is when people are manually entering data into two different systems that could be a sign that maybe their current accounting system is not really meeting their needs, or maybe maybe it actually could meet their needs if they invested in some kind of integration. Now what’s an example of that together, like what kind of what kind of data would you be putting in two different systems? Give me a concrete example, the thing that i see most often, and maybe andy wants to chime in on this, too, but i think i see most often is donordigital so it used to be that before there were good donor-centric was tracked in the organization’s accounting system, and so they would enter individual donors and the date that they gave and the amount that they gave, and it was any kind of restricted gift, you know, they’d have information about that, and so that have it has stuck with a lot of organizations, and now they’re entering it both in their donor-centric and there financial management system. Now you could argue that that’s not actually necessary at all tohave the data in both places, at least that level of detail but but if you do want to still have that data in both places. Now, there are ways, depending on what system you choose and what kind of integration you have to automate that a little bit more, so that you’re not manually king in all those details in two different places. Ok, ok, give us another common symptom. You see, um, and if you want to chime in on that sure. Well, i mean just it. And answer a little of what you said. The payrolls, another area that you people manually receiving data. But another symptom is things like a lot of spreadsheets. It’s, an organization is using a spreadsheet to track the status of all their different grant. That is often a sign that they could benefit potentially from a different financial management system is actually designed toe help them, uh, track their spending. And for all of those distinct grant that’s one of things that the organizations really struggle with when they work with a system that can only handle a couple of coding fields that really can’t scale teo do sort of comprehensive fund accounting to track the the grand program number of grant programs that they actually have. So that’s another for the another sign that the symptom is, you see lots of spread sheets on the side being used to say, ok, and program a we’ve spent this much program would be sametz spent this much in that has it can be hard to tease out from actual financial statement s oh, man that’s good indicator. So you mean so for each different program? Or fund? They have a different spreadsheet. Is that what you’re describing? Yep. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We used to hear about that from from one of our sponsors. Um, which is mentioned in aa? It’s just mentioned you mentioned apple o’s in aa a sidebar. They used to make that point about that being not so that they’re not being efficient. Okay, the guide also talks about access from from certain devices. Like if you have to go to a dedicated computer thio dua certain task right? To say a little more about that, andy sure, that that’s really the root of a lot of organizations that used to see they’re still working with insults or a client server or single system software? Um, yeah, that that’s still out there still widely used, but that can be difficult for folks to actually get access to information. They have to be on site on the local network to get information. Or they have to do the shenanigans of a remote log in or remote desktop and looking at a screen through ah, some sort of ritual display system or in their face so that many systems have transitions from needing to. Be on site thai there being hosted or being in the clouds. Some of the newer systems are sort of cloud natives and work really well and some older systems to our club native. But work really well, either within in a browser and also some of them support apse on mobile devices. So that’s, another sign is if you really do need more multiple people to access data easily from different locations. You start toe look in a new system, karen. A few years ago, it ntcdinosaur i captured an excellent panel interview. That was, in fact, it had someone who i think is an advisor to robert winer. Is he c an advisor for you on some? Yes, he has. He has been a subject matter expert for some of our research in this. Okay. And he’s also been a speaker on some of our webinars. Okay, excellent. Yeah. I thought i remembered an affiliation, so he was one of three or four on the panel and the this is what i love about ntc. I mean, the panel was devoted to this niche topic of maybe you’re blaming technology when people and or processes are the problem. So with that leading, you know, there might be a problem other than your financial management system in your non-profit can you can you talk about that? Yeah, absolutely. But i might rephrase that to say almost certainly you’re blaming technology when people in processes are at least part of the problem. So yeah, let’s not overlook that. One thing that i know we found in the research was that option. Somebody will think that she needs a new financial management after a package when really, what she needs is to revise her chart of account. And so what? The chart of accounts is for people who thank you for keeping him. Thank you for keeping yourself out of jargon. Jail. Yeah, yeah. That’s, that’s just the kind of the master list of categories of revenue and expenses. So you use that in financial reporting, you use that to connect every transaction that you enter in your accounting system, teo, to the overall categories. And so is you. Find yourself explaining coding to your board of directors when you’re presenting the financial reports to them. If you find dafs miscoding things when they’re you know, writing down what something should be charged, too on their expense report or their recedes, then that’s probably a sign that you need to review your chart of accounts and think about revising that first before you start looking dafs software change, okay, can you give us another example? I know that could be hundreds of things, but another there’s another example, come to mind of where the person or the processes that there were people there, the processes are the are the trouble anything else? Well, another example that i see all the time, which is not limited financial management software, there are all sorts of technology is user adoption issues, and, you know, sometimes people aren’t really getting the full value out of the software because they haven’t done the training, they haven’t customised the settings to fit their needs, things like that so that’s important, too. Okay, and you work with a lot of non-profits and karen didn’t ask you to chime in this time. By the way, karen, if you say the word chime again, i’m cutting off your mic. So you got to find another word. You said it twice, china’s twice. Now that’s enough! So if you you have to find another word, you have to find another word to invite andy, i’ll goto with the saurus or something while i’m talking. Andy, another word to invite andi, teo contribute, but you can’t use that either, because i just did to something that you may have said or add on, you can’t use that either a andy, you work with a lot of non-profits do you see? What were some symptoms? You see where people, about your you’re in a difficult position of having to say it’s, not really technology it’s you. But you know what are some other symptoms? You see where people are blaming technology erroneously? Well, i think i found the sea. It was people were repeating a process that air doing a process in a way that is no longer optimal it’s sort of a habit that folks have gotten into that can be done more efficiently. So i think of things way report we mentioned something like expensive fi, which helps people track expenses, and so the you were tools. Now, it’s an app on your phone to take a photo of an expense report you can start to capture data that way the older way, you know, taking the stuffing the receipt into a folder or into your bag, and then digging it out once a month and going through the grueling process of no king in the details is a process that doesn’t have to happen. So for my perspective, i see people missing that chance to take advantage of some of the newer tools that left the more differently. And since many folks they’re carrying around, you know a phone that has a camera on it. Let’s, let’s, use that camera in a useful way to save the taiping time. Yeah, people just don’t know. So that’s. Why this buyer’s guide, my phrase, is it’s my show so that’s it that’s, the explanation that’s. Why this buyer’s guide is so valuable because it opens you up to things, you know, you see things that you’re doing manually, that you don’t need to anymore, you can be questioned, your processes that that’s important, right? Yeah, i did, and i think that’s actually hoping way. Think, yeah, has folks get a new system and explore what system will work for them? That’s a prime time to look, look at your processes, do some process mapping, which i find a fun exercise of, you know, working on a a dry erase board with lots of markers and post it notes and things to sort of figure out who’s doing what win in this process. How can we redesign this so that we’re doing less work, and we’re getting the information we need quicker. Okay, that’s, an excellent leading to what i actually want to talk about next, which was how to get into selecting a new system. Um, who’s, uh, because because workflows, you know, mapping your workflows is a part of that. Who wants to speak to that? Most eloquently, i’ll let you decide amongst yourself. Okay. That’s. That’s. Good. So i’m gonna point. Parenti graham okay. Congratulations. With democracy of two eyes is frozen. Frances. No wonder we have trouble united states. Fifty million. Okay, that gets it in the report that there may be drilled down on one or two that i think are important way. Ok? Yeah, we’ll stay. We’re not goingto yeah, we’re not gonna talk about all the way can’t do that. I tell you what, i’ll let you let you think about thea the couple i’ll walk through the first one or two and then you can mention one or two that are important to you. And you can give some thought to that while we take this break bradunas cps, they’ve got an archive webinar that may pique your interest. Prepare your nine ninety for success. If you are one of the fortunate organizations that delights in completing the full nine ninety. Not that sissy easy or the end postcard, but the full then you want to listen to wagner’s advice? The webinar includes common mistakes and most damaging mistakes. Obviously the ones you mostly want to avoid. It’s all at wagner cpas dot com click resource is than webinars now time for tony’s. Take two. You will join this club. I joined about six months ago. It’s the, uh, it’s the dead parents club. And i have found that people who have lost parents, i know it. This is there’s a bond there’s an empathy and an understanding that i did not have before i lost my mom last october. And now when i talk to people who are in the club, um, i feel it, you know, and i realized that i just never really understood the magnitude of it. Of course, you know, you heal over time and you learn to accommodate and accept over time. But i just it’s become apparent to me over these five months. So november, december, jerry fremery much, five, six months that the people who have lost a parent, they just get it at a level that all the rest don’t. And yeah, i just became very clear to me while i was having a chat with a friend who had lost a father three years ago. So you’ll join the club and i hope it’s many years before you do my video on this. Is that tony martignetti dot? Com now let us return teo karen graham and andy wolber for idealware is release of when i called buyer’s guide selecting financial management software for your for your non-profit karin t graham is executive director of idealware and andy wolber is a technology consultant to non-profits ok, karen, you did your homework for ah, for that time. Okay, cool. Thank you. So talk about all this. We’re not doing all that now. I told you, we’re not doing what we’re not doing, all these people going to get the report and it’s important to put this in context. So we have thirty steps that happened before you even start looking at potential solutions. Okay, that is step for the first three are about getting the right people at the table and making sure that you understand your current situation you needs and requirements before you start looking at software options. Okay? And then there was the work of a mistake that i think a lot of people make they jump right into looking at the products, and then they become very oriented toward which product has the coolest bells and whistles. And they’re not thinking about which product is. The best fit for our needs? Yes, they’re not aligning, right, right. That is critical. So you’ve got to do your research up front before you start looking at packages and getting demos and, you know, being wooed by sales people. Um, andy, that was a very good overview. Thank you, karen. Okay, and you’re gonna get people are gonna get the report for god’s sake. They’re gonna goto idealware dot or ge it’s either gonna be on the home page or they’re going to go to go the search box and search the word financial it’s free for pizza. Just get it, andy let’s, go back to the workflows how does how does mapping workflows relate to your your search for a new financial management system? Well, i think it really is about that time both the folks who need operational data and the folks needs or decision making data and looking at how information’s getting into your system and then coming out on a recording size. So on the input side, things like you’re tracking expenses, you know, if we can simplify that process that’s fantastic if we can simplify payroll so we’re not recoding that each time. I go in and be properly allocated. That’s. Fantastic. If we can pull donordigital into the system in appropriate ways appropriate permission that’s useful. And then on the reporting side can the program majors the staff get the information they need? The board have the ability to look at information. How rapidly does that cycle time occurred? You are bored still dealing with princessa reports air they logging in and looking how our systems, howard decisions about financial matters being tracked and recorded or discuss um that’s where process mapping comes into play and that’s why it’s so important to get all the people who touched the different aspects of that process involved in the selection. And then? And then, as you’re mapping what happens, you see gaps where technology can fill in or what? How does it contribute to the the well with the report identifies as the next step which is starting to look at software solutions. How does mapping relate to the software you identify? Pain point. Okay. Okay. So process mapping is is what are we spending a ton of time on that? Yeah. It’s really painful. So things like we’re spending x amount of time. You know, every month, every year, doing program allocations were spending way too much time trying to understand or put together a report for a donor, our thunder, in order to appropriately say, here’s, how we spent your dollars sort, that sort of fiduciary responsibility grant recipient has so it’s it’s that piece where you’re saying, you know, we’re burning a lot of staff time and effort on this. How do we start to fix that? And looking at then what? You know, what does that make? What if we were to alleviate that peace? If we automate payroll, if we automate expense tracking, if we automate or streamline different processes? Um what? What benefit have what does that free up that let’s? Just start to think about other things. Aunt checker, tackle other challenges. You okay? So i i understand now. Thank you. You see, this workflows on the on the board and you nine people are involved in it, and it takes weeks to produce. And you know that that kind of a pain point. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Cool. Alright, now. Something interesting? No, no. Shutter mike off. No, you cannot. I said you cannot use that word. Again, i don’t want to hear it. Yes, you can. You can you can mention something related. Please, please do i will another way. That process mapping can be helpful is to prevent you from replicating a bad process in a new system. So as an example, let’s say you map out this process and you get to a step where mary makes a photocopy of the expense report and filed it in a certain place in the basement, right? And when you’re doing the process mapping, you can ask the question, why did she do that? Why is that necessary? And you might find out that there’s really no reason to do that anymore. Maybe there was five years ago, but now it’s not anymore necessary. So then you won’t look for software package that makes that process easier. You’re just goingto eliminate that. Ok, ok, i’m giving you a time out because you use the word chime when i admonished you. Not too. So i’m going to andy. I was going to ask you this question i was going to, but now i’m not you’re in time out. Um okay, andy a cz you’re considering these systems and something new and how it relates to what you were existing systems are. The report makes clear that they don’t always all play well together. And yeah, and you’re not going to talk to me because i put karen in time out, so you’re not going to speak to me. Is that what is that? What i’m hearing? You know, you can hear me. All right? I hear you. Fine. Yeah. Ok. You’re not punishing me because i will just shut the show down. It’s, over it’s over. Okay, i’ll just start reading. I’ll just read. I’ll just read the guy that people don’t have to download. I’ll just start reading. We’ll put people to sleep. Okay, theo audiobook that’s, right? Ah, produced your notebook. Yeah. Then i’ll have. Then i’ve licensing troubles with either way. I don’t get involved with those people on illegal and in a legal battle anyway. All right, so you need to think about compatibility, right? Yeah. You need to look at what? What other system needs to speak to? So there’s a couple things that when you’re looking for a new system that may naturally walk you down a particular path, and sometimes it is simplest to stick with with with a vendor that makes him the adjacent product. So something that already is designed to track your donor? Management, maybe they also make a financial package, right? Like blackbaud damn well blackbaud sounds force is one of the classics are examples of this with things like razor’s edge, which is the donor management system covered in the other guide you mentioned, and then financial edge next-gen which is designed to work well with its other tools. So if you’re in a circumstance where you have ah, don’t particular donorsearch system it naturally lends itself to work well with another that’s that’s a particular case, thie other is some systems that you may be dealing with, where you’re dealing with a system installed on server many vendors that used to offer those now offer a posted or cloudy alternative, so it may be that you can stick with the system from the same the same similar software you’re familiar with, but a different package or solution from that vendor that gives you a little more flexibility and ability to access data. But you i think that the report says you just want this to be one factor, right? You don’t want to go, okay? We have sales force for constituent relationship management, so we’re going to do sales force. For financial management, and we’re not going to look at anything else. You don’t want that to you. I want to go that way either, right, right. It should be a just simply be a factor that as a system for consideration to your list, okay, you really have to consider a much broader range of things, okay, i understand. All right, i just, you know, you don’t just automatically go now. What about help with financial enough, with the transition once we’ve selected, ah, vendor, can we reasonably ask for help with the data migration? Is that a fair game? That will depend to some extent on the coolest the system you’re moving toward most of the as you basically is. You get larger in scale and the price point the ladder. Um, you do have the ability to get vendors. They are familiar and can help you move data from one system to another. In other cases that you know what you’re you’re a very small sort of grassroots agency, and you’re just using your going from track and stuff and excel or just your bank account statements to something, you’re less likely to be able to get that help. But often you can turn to a you know, turning your accountant turn to a professional firm that can help you with that transition is you get a little larger. Okay. Okay, karen, you’re you’re aah! All right, you’re out. Um, let’s, talk about the so the this transition, the when is the good time to make the transition? What this this whole transition process is going to look like from from our existing to our new financial management system. Most of the people that we talk to as experts for this report suggested that it’s best to do it at the beginning of a new fiscal year. And but that also might mean that you will be running the new system in the old system and parallel for a little while as a way of testing to make sure that everything’s working correctly. And they also suggested that an organization should plan maybe three to six months lead time before they’re cut over date for the transition time period. So it’s going to take awhile to train the users, make sure that everything is configured correctly and test everything running parallel. That that sounds like that’s. A pretty time intensive deal is running two systems parallel. Well, it is, but your financial data is pretty important that it’s accurate. So many organizations will decide that it’s worthwhile to do the extra effort of double entry to have the confidence that it’s absolutely accurate. Okay, okay, i see, and how long would you do that? I think that varies. You’d have to evaluate, you know, how important is it to do a really thorough test? How much work is it for me? You know, if i was to do this, that idealware i would probably do it for a couple of days. Honestly, they’re pretty simple. And the stakes are fairly low for us. But if i were, say, the humane society of the united states, i might plan a little more than a few days. Okay. Yeah, you were alright. So all right, just gonna value on complexity. Which andy is a point that andy made earlier too. Okay, we have ah, fair amount of time left. I feel like we should get to the gate to the landscape of of systems, can you? Karen, can you? Ah found now i’m feeling bad that i put in time out. I never i don’t think i’ve done that before. I get to first, but so i’m now i’m feeling bad about it. So i’m sorry i made i made do it may do it again. I’m not sorry enough to not never do it again but so don’t transgress. But are you can you talk? About sort of an overview of the of the marketplace before we get to a couple of specifics. Sure, there are a number of systems that we covered that have all of the core functionality that you would expect in a financial management system, including the general ledger like, which is just tracking all the transactions in and out expenses, and, um, and income and things like that. It will also generate the three most important standard report that people use for financial management, the balance sheets, the income statements and the cash flow statement of cash flow or cash flow projection. And so you know, those all those systems that are in the first section of system listings in the guide i’ll have that basic functionality. Some of them also have some additional features that are a little more advanced, like payroll management, yeah, budget planning, more advanced reporting and coding and allocations. And and then there also is a group of tools that we thought was worth covering, even though they’re not specifically for nonprofit organizations and those are either low cost or even free services that are fairly simple, and they’re designed more for like freelancers entrepreneurs. Small businesses, but some non-profits have actually found them to be a good fit for their needs, too. We’re going, we’re going to move to a break, andy, while while we take this short break, i’m going to ask you, teo, reflect upon what karen just said and see if there’s anything additional you’d like to add. Gotta take a break, tell us credit card payment processing this’s, a long tale of passive revenue for you, you encourage local businesses that are already supporting you. Most likely they take credit cards. Will they move their payment processing over? To tell those tell us, of course, will look at their existing payment structure and give them a proposal with most likely lower fees. When they make the change to tell us you the non-profit earned fifty percent of telesis revenue for every single transaction indefinitely. Check out the video it’s at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us for this long tale of passive revenue. Now let’s, go back to financial management software, the financial management software show with cannon andy, andy, anything that your reflection leads you to want teo add into what karen said. Sure, the thing that most notable for me in that first category of of system is that there’s a whole set of things that have moved from being client server to now hosted or or clouds those very clear distinctions answer how their systems are being offered. The he think in all of the systems to also keep an eye out for is the cloud. They are more advanced, incapable of supporting any sort of eyes, eyes. Something to look for. An fbi application programming interface for flandez programme and solution exchange information with programs and applications from other vendors. Okay, so a key thing to look for it, you know, what is this the vendor list that the system’s integrate with? Some of them have taken the step of having things like a sore. Where you concerned? Browsing looked for all the integration. So i’m looking for a payroll system. Hey, guess what? It works with the payroll vendor we used so that’s that so that sort of thing is, this is a first big step in that in that larger service system solution category. Ok. Thank you. Um, so let’s in our in our closing several minutes or so, let’s, let’s, talk about some of the individual ones. Now, karen, i do want to ask you how come in this report, uh, buyer’s guide. There isn’t. There isn’t one of those colorful charts like i was describing for the c r m that first brought me to idealware four, five years ago. How come, how come not not in this report? This is the first time that idealware has really covered this topic in death, and so we wanted to start by just looking at the landscape and helping people understand what their choices are and what the major points of differentiation might be that’s not to say that we won’t do something more in depth at some point. If there turns out to be a demand for that, then we well could. But this actually does use a little different methodology than a consumer report where we’re doing demonstrations of all the tools were working with the vendors to verify that all the information we write about them is factually accurate. That sort of thing is a little more involved process that we didn’t undertake at this first past looking at financial management system. So so the argast so this is the inaugural financial management system report, and you chose to publicly release it on non-profit radio. This is this is a double a double big deal. It’s your first one. No. Yeah. Listen to that enthusiasm, boy. Oh, knocking me over. Oh, my god. All right. Um ok. I get enough enthusiasm for all three of us. So that’s all right? I’m amusing myself. Um, okay. Eso are we comfortable naming a couple of these? You got you got abila financial edge. And you mentioned that one financial force fundez easy. How should we what’s the best way? I mean, i didn’t. I guess i didn’t really want to go. I item by item one of the features of this feature that you know, but how should we, uh, andy, i’ll defer to you, you’re you deal with a lot of zsystems what’s the best way to get people acquainted with the, uh, the landscape across these that we haven’t already done. Yeah, well, you know, actually using approach it took when it first started trying to sort some of this out. Okay, i think there’s some logical appearing now say that they can’t be used with other systems. Um, i think the system i’m most likely to see organizations use is some variant of quickbooks, right, that’s, that’s widely used. So i think you set that aside, start to look at them. You zsystems probably naturally lend themselves working well with partner systems. So things like financial force, which would pair very well with sales force because built on the same core platform, microsoft dynamics, which would be very strong if you’re working in that saying microsoft, cr, m, world and zsystems and then in financial edge obviously pairs well with blackbaud so those those sorts of solutions, you know, and then you start to move more towards a range of other things, you know, things like sage intact, which is many people will be familiar with because of it. That’s one of the solutions that epa dot com has endorsed on dh support so things like like that’s, our cloud solution would be familiar to many accountants across the country that would be likely helping organization. And then you move to the smaller set of all the smaller, more start up sorry they’re beyond start up in a blanket, but they’re still in there not not as wide market traction necessarily as those others and what gets interesting. They’re sort of the small business models pricing model, very significantly pricing it’s, less expensive. Well, it’s, just it gets interesting. So you look at things like freshbooks which is structured in charging by the number of clients you were tracking in the system. Kiss you, which is adding bundling for a fee of software plus access to a bookkeeper on a monthly basis. Uh, wave which is free, but charges based on a percentage of your financial transaction xero which is cloud native and really focused on building out a lot of connection. Tow hundred, the different system. So those types of zoho books which is more of a part of a bundle there, wanting to sell your old bundle of things that make your needs what’s interesting to meet is how the larger, more established, typical systems are embracing cloud and starting trying to evolve to add connections. And the smaller one are tryingto rapidly iterated in order to serve, to provide more robust services and more built out systems. So that’s for me that’s. What makes this landscape interesting? Yeah. Okay, so the bigger ones are trying to collaborate more. And the smaller ones are trying to get be more robust in and more comprehensive. Exactly. And the rate at which each does does those things is really fascinating. There’s a there’s. A sidebar. I think it is on on pricing. Some. Some are very upfront. And the prices are clear on the on their site. And you can get started immediately with a credit card and then others. They’re not transparent about pricing. Yeah, this is something i find very interesting, i think. It’s symptomatic of a little bit of serve. What? I reference just just now, the traditional vendors have been able to do the survey, you know, call us, you know, sort of the please inquire if you’re interested. If you have to ask about price, you’re not really, you know, it’s, you know, you need to be large enough to be able to have that conversation. Um, the more forward thinking cloud native systems and some are evolving rapidly are more transparent about providing price. There is a bit of irony and some of this i find that some of these vendors will you look at their sight and you say, oh, you know, buy-in pricing financial information is very important, and then you look for pricing and you can’t find it, which seems to be a very critical piece of priceless information to me. Yeah, all right. So some just they want to have a conference. They want to have a conversation with a sales person, in some cases in others it’s also about making sure the system system and really meet your needs so it can be for useful and constructive purposes. Not completely unreasonable, but but absolutely but it’s, very interesting, metoo to the vendors. They’re cheating the public pricing and that’s that, well, they still need to have that conversation right. We just have about two minutes left. Karen, how do you feel about systems that are specifically designed for non-profits versus systems that are not like a quick books? You have an opinion on those on that one versus the other. If i were just to be randomly assigned it non-profit and i had to advise them on which three products they should take a look at, um, i might say without knowing anything about them, i made say, let’s, look at three that are built for nonprofit organizations, but but that’s not to say that the ones that are built for kind of general purpose can’t be a good fit. So in some cases, especially where they need, they’re pretty simple. Those can actually be a very affordable and practical option. Okay, okay. Um, let’s see, we just have, like, a minute or so left. Andy, you want to you want to give me a closing thought, andy in ah, in about thirty seconds. We’re lucky to have a lot of options. Understand your need. Oh, and, uh, be open, tio, rethinking how you work and making sure that your financial system is working for you and that you’re not just putting data into the system to create reports. Yes, thank you. I love especially be be willing to rethink that’s. Andy wolber, technology consultant to non-profits he’s at a wolber and wolber works dotcom guarantee. Graham, would you like tio wrap up in about twenty seconds since andy covered that i want to go in a little different direction and say that, you know, every non-profit leader is expected to understand the basics of financial management, like they need to know how to interpret a balance sheet. Um, but there’s not as much of an expectation that they know how to select software and how to get the most out of their software investment, i think that’s something that needs to change, and i hope that by reading this guide that non-profit leaders will be able to acquire some of those skills. All right, get the report for god’s sake idealware dot or ge on the home page or search for the word financial and those closing words from karin t graham, executive director of idealware she’s at guarantee graham idealware is at idealware dot or ge, thanks to you both. Thank you, my pleasure. Next week, a conversation with adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna, slash pursuant to radio weinger cpas, guiding you beyond the numbers when you’re cps, dot com and tell those credit card payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is here is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein of brooklyn. With me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get into thinking. Dahna good duitz are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi. I’m nor ing. Sometimes the potentially ater tune in every tuesday line to ten eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c. Are you feeling unhappy with your body, shape or size? Ever feel out of control with food? I’m elizabeth from nourish the soul, and on the show, you’ll uncover the route to these imbalances and discover a permanent solution. Latto having a healthy relationship to food and your body. Join us every thursday morning at eleven a, m eastern time on talk radio dot. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? 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Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio dunaj n y c. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oh, hyre!

Nonprofit Radio for August 22, 2014: Integrate Social And CRM & Technology And Organizing

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Bryan Giese & Jenn Smith: Integrate Social And CRM 

With Bryan Giese and Jenn Smith at NTC
With Bryan Giese and Jenn Smith at NTC

How do you integrate social media data into your CRM database? What social media data should you preserve? I talked to Bryan Giese, Heller Consulting’s director of marketing, and Jenn Smith, Heller’s vice president of digital agency, at the Nonprofit Technology Conference (NTC).

 

 

 

 Austen Levihn-Coon & Rachel Butler: Technology And Organizing

With Austen Levihn-Coon and Rachel Butler at NTC
With Austen Levihn-Coon and Rachel Butler at NTC

Technology has created opportunities for organizing, but also challenges. Austen Levihn-Coon and Rachel Butler identify the challenges and how to overcome them. They share strategies to deepen engagement beyond petition signing and identify leaders in your community. Austen is chief innovation officer at Fission Strategy and Rachel is campaign representative for the Beyond Oil campaign at Sierra Club. We talked at NTC.

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure pseudo member nous stomach titus if it came within my ken that you missed today’s show integrates social and c r m how do you integrate social media data into your cr m database? What social media data should you preserve? I talked to brian gz heller consulting’s director of marketing, and jen smith heller’s, vice president of digital agency at the non-profit technology conference and t c and technology and organizing technology has created opportunities for organizing but also challenges. Austin levine kun and rachel butler identified the challenges and how to overcome them. The share strategies to deepen engagement beyond petition signing and identify leaders in your community. Austin is chief innovation officer at vision strategy, and rachel is campaign representative for beyond oil at sierra club. We talked at and t c on tony’s take to a new non-profit radio knowledge base sponsored by generosity siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks here’s the first of the two ntcdinosaur views today with brian gz and jen smith welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen we’re at the marriott hotel wardman park in washington, d c and with me are brian gc and jen smith. Brian is director of marketing at heller consulting. Jenn smith is vice president digital agency at heller consulting. Brian jen, welcome, thanks so much. Thank you very much for having i’m glad. Thank you for taking time on a busy conference. You’re workshop topic is bridging the gap between social media and cr m let’s. Make sure everybody’s on the same platform on the c r m of course, constituent relationship management which would be your date abate your software for fund-raising and all things engagement with with your constituents don’t have that right. Yes, that is correct. We’ll have no, i know the acronym, right. Is that how you would? What would define cr m as? Yes, definitely. Serum is, you know, your your underlying systems that keep track of everything that your constituents might do. So you know the best case. Everything is connected with the central point being your actual constituent so you can find out. Everything they do across all of your efforts, whether it’s volunteering or fund-raising or communications, if you can have that all center around that one single constituent it’s a great thing, instead of trying to merge databases and merge content. Okay, and thank you and jen what’s the what is the gap between social and cr? Um, well, you know, i think that socialist still a relatively new it’s, a new endeavor for a lot of organizations not necessarily knew in terms of the content they’re creating, but in terms of how they’re thinking about data, so, you know, you can get a lot of information, you can get a lot of social data out there, but how you tie that back into your serum and what you actually do with that data and how it can change things that your organization, i think it’s still a little bit of a mystery for a lot of organizations, so i think, you know, when you’re thinking about social media, you’re really trying to say here’s, a place where we’re engaging with donors and constituents, um, and we want to make sure that we’re capturing the right data from those engagements in order to really make use of that in your overall marketing and communications strategy with with a donor and constituent does this start with mission? Is that the place to evaluate start with our evaluation of how we’re going to integrate these two doesn’t begin with mission. Yeah, i think it always needs to begin with mission, right? And i think it begins really with with your goals and what you need to do strategically as an organization. So, you know, you need to be thinking about what we want to do with fund-raising what do we want to do with advocacy? How do we want to mobilize people? And those things need to still remain in the core of what you’re thinking about even when you’re talking about social media. Okay on dh how do we start this? The integration between social and r c r m you want to field that one? It’s it’s? It depends upon your organization. I think jen said it just a moment ago is starting off with your goals and what you want to achieve what you want to what type of communication you want tohave with your constituents and another argument. Why? Are we in social? Right where we drink, right? Why are you doing it? Where do you want to reach out to them? Where does your audience live? Are they on twitter on facebook on linked in? Are they just gonna read blog’s? How do you connect in with them? And what do you want them to do? What messages do you want to send them? Once you figure out what messages you want, then you can figure out where’s the best place to put them. And then how do you want them to react to those messages? What actions do you want them to take? And and how do you want them to react back to you? Are you trying to just get more followers? Um, that’s a great thing. But you really want to be able to do something with them once they’re following you. Do you have a conversation? Do they feed information back to you? Do they let you know what’s going on in their world on the front lines of whatever your mission might be. And are you encouraging them to do so? Hopefully, yeah. Back. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully that’s where you really want to? Do you want to create this interactive engagement to make people feel mohr integrated and important in your cause and not just give us money? Give us money? You know, you want them to really feel involved in what you dio and an important part of your mission because they really are, you know, obviously we all know that, but people don’t always feel that way. They give their money, they volunteer, they walk away from it, and then they see something in their e mail or something that comes into their mailbox. And they’re like, oh, i did do this feeling kind of transactional. Yes, not relationship, right? You mentioned. Where are your people? Where are the people? You’re going to be engaging through social. How do we find out where they are? Wei have just sorry you were about poor guy. Took a breath ready to talk and i have more questions. But i’m trying to start a hypothetical spot. Supposed to just have them. Ah, us mail. We just have us mail addresses and an email. I suppose we have those. How do we know what social channels we should be in to be talking? T this? This constituency, i think i think a good way to start off with is but there’s a couple approaches, one of them is to do smaller tests and, you know, if you set up in twitter, you set up in facebook and start reaching out in telling your audience that you’re there. So if you have their email address, you have their direct mail address put those presence is up and say, yes, we do have a twitter account, we do have a facebook account, follow them if you like us and then you’ll start to see one gets a little more traffic than the other, you know, ifyou’re on linked in you’ll see, oh, mohr and more people have us on linked in, so we’ll put more effort there, there’s others there’s tools that are available that let you take your e mail address and it’ll search all the channels and say, yes, this person is on twitter is on facebook is on linked in, and i’ll show you all the accounts that they’re on so you could bring that data back into your cr m and connect that together and that’s a huge help, any tools that you can share that sites you can share that that would enables users non-profits to do that there’s one that directly does that it’s called small act their social profile. They do it. Casey golden, ceo of small act, has been on the show from bb khan. Yes, blackbaud unconference last year, casey well, mabe in two years ago, but i was there two years, but one of those past two years of e become casey casey golden was from small act was on. Yes, they have ah there sweet of tools is great for taking your existing set of data and constituents and connecting that to whatever their social networks might be. Okay, so that’s a great way to come back and say, these people are involved in these networks and they’re active there influencers or they just have an accountant don’t do anything so it’s figuring out where they are and if they participate, if they have a facebook account, it might not really matter if they never really use it. And i believe when casey was on, he was on with someone from blackbaud and i apologized to that someone i don’t remember his name hyre they they had done their homework before coming on the show and actually labelled me a key influence, sir, i think i was just so they get me to air the interview, i think it was heavily overstated. I’m barely a user, and but they were they were very generous, jen. Now, once we know where our constituents are, how do we start? Teo engage and then we’ll talk about putting that together with rcr. Um, yeah, i mean, you know, one thing i want to say just in relation to where people are is i think, you know, a lot of organizations end up feeling like they have to be every place when it comes to social media. So as soon as you know, instagram got big, oh, god, we have to have an instagram account or so we have to have a pinterest account or we have to start to get on snapchat there’s a lot of pressure within social media to kind of be on the next new thing, and i think for non-profits, you know, you’ve got limited resource is limited time it’s difficult to prove for a lot of organizations that the investment is worth it when it comes to social media, and i think there were getting better all the time at ways to do that, but i think, you know, as brian said, i think if you start small and and starting with the big too, starting with facebook and twitter is probably going to be a pretty safe bet for a lot of organizations, and once you do that, you will start to see patterns of, you know what? Like, we really have a lot more engagement on twitter and so maybe that’s really where we want to focus more of our investment on and then, you know, and then i think it’s another really difficult thing for organizations to do is to not just treat it like it’s, another channel to push out information and organizations tend to get really wrapped up in like, this is our agenda, these air our goals, these, you know, this is the program i want to tell everybody about without necessarily really listening to their constituents about really what they want to hear or how they want to engage with you or what kind of lifestyle are they leading, you know? So i think, you know, being able to take some risks about not always having, you know, tweets or facebook post that are, you know, specifically on mission, you know, about the organization about a program, but are really relating to people, you know, it was like, you know, if you love animals, this is probably something else you think would, you know, is great, you know, you should totally watch his video, and it may not be directly related to mission at all, but it helps really build loyalty and social media channels when you when your authentic on dh, when you’re not so focused on this is just a channel for us to push something out. But that it’s a way to start to develop, to weigh engagement, but isn’t that what we do in our offline in our real life? How you interact on facebook or twitter yourself, right? Found i’m walking past a restaurant, i think a friend of mine might like it, you know, you snap a picture and said, right, i read an article thought this might interest you forward it to a friend right now, just talking about essentially right, bringing what are thoughtfulness, right online and into the social network, right it is, and it’s it’s the same conversations you might have in person with someone. So, you know, if you’re sitting there talking to your friend and you only talked about your work and your mission and that’s, all you talked about, they’d stopped listening. They would walk away and they’re tired of hearing of it. But then if you say, hey, i saw these other things and you expand the conversation into the richness of us as humans and have that conversation. Then you have friends that stick around, and they like to talk to you because they get a great wealth of information from you and that you should do the same thing with your social networks and be able to have those engaging conversations and listen back to what they say and be interested in what’s going on in their life right? E-giving anything duitz e-giving, e-giving, ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get a drink. E-giving this’s. The way we’re hosting part of my french new york city guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them, shed their story, join us, pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Dahna listening key, right? Absolutely not. When we have a conversation. It’s two ways and right. So don’t treat our social platforms is just bulletin boards where where we post and you eat and we we’ve had the broadcast model for a very long time what our media has always been and it’s sometimes difficult to transition into an engagement model, but you really do need to do a lot more listening and finding out what what is interesting to them now, how do we start to integrate this with our cr m that’s? Your that’s, your larger your larger topic? What? What? We need to he’s thinking about teo accomplish that. So i think there’s a few things. I mean, we keep talking about listening. You know, i do think it’s worth mentioning that there are social listening tools out there. And the way that you were identified, for example, is a key influencer was probably through one of those tools, right? Maybe through small act, you know of saying, hey, you’re a cute influencer, and it might be because they said let’s look at how many people follow tony and that’s. What made you a key influence or not? Necessarily, that you tweeted all the time, right? So i think on and let’s take a step further and how engaged those heimans retweets, right? Replies so it’s not just the right number of followers, but how engaged are they with your content, right? Right, so, you know, so you really can get a wealth of data from from those types of tools and when you’re doing social listening and i think what is really important is actually to just go back to some fundamentals and say, ok, if i were looking at everybody talks about a three hundred and sixty degree view of a constituent, right? So if that were really possible and what we were looking at, what would be the data that would be really important to see in a donor record when you’re talking about social media and it might be, you know, you might think about your major donors and you might say, you know, what would be really helpful for a major donor staff would be to know how much that major donor is engaging with us on facebook or twitter, right or or if we’re solving kind of a customer service issue, right? So we had somebody complained on our facebook page, and we responded within twenty four hours and here’s how it got resolved. And so that when that major donor stuart, goes ahead and calls that person a week later, they can say we, you know, we heard you had a little problem, but i think it got resolved, how’s everything going right? So i think part of it is really being able to step back and think, ok, what’s the data that’s going to be most useful to bring back into our serum, and that is going to be different for each organization. And i think it really should be driven by your overall organizational goals and strategy on and then you, because the data could just get completely overwhelming. You know, social listening sometimes, like, you know, you can get a lot of noise, so you have to be really strategic in terms of how you set it up and then what you do with that data. Once you get it on dh talking to the different constituents in your organization about what their needs might be, right, what would the major gift officer liketo have? Right as she picks up the phone and great calls calls her boss because the thing that’s probably least useful but is really what is often how we measure success and social is, you know, number of fans or followers, right? And and it is a measure i’m not saying it’s not important, i mean, i think when you’re reporting back to your executive leadership and you’re saying, hey, we grew our facebook page by ten thousand, you know, fans or whatever i mean, that is a way to measure, but i think it’s really going beyond that and saying, ok, so what? What do we do with those ten thousand people like, how can we serve them better? You know how when we make the experience with us a better experience so that they stick with us forever? You know? And and that’s i think those follow-up questions and thinking about your data in terms of those follow-up questions is really, really key, okay? And it’s important to to consider you’re gonna have different segments of your social media audience? You might have a donor who donates lots of money to your organisation never tweets never gets on facebook or anything like that you might have someone who only donates ten dollars, a year to your organization. Who’s a huge advocate for your organization. And you have to deal with each of those differently. You know, they’re they’re both definitely vitally important to your organization, but you have to include them in different ways. You want to make sure that the person who’s an advocate has the information. They need to talk about your organization effectively and then the donor. They want to see a return on what they’ve given you. So they want to see something that’s important about? Yes, i donated this money. What is it doing for the actual recipients? Is it delivering the mission? They want to find out about that and and see that result. So you have to be very conscious of what you’re different. Social media audiences in general are interested in and provide that information to them. And with such a direct channel you khun definitely look through it and find it. Do you have advice on where to preserve this information within a person’s record? I mean, if we start with razor’s edge, are we able to drill into that level of detail? Like, where would you preserve this information that a program officer or a major gift officer might liketo have? Where we where we actually put it in the c r m? Yeah, years ago, i think that’s a little tricky question because it really depends on the serum that the the organization is using, you might end up needing to do some custom fields you might not depending on what you’re using. So so i think part of that is part of figuring out your strategy for how this comes back into your sierra is saying, where is this actually going to live? And how are we going to access it? And how are we going to run reports, you know, or what can we pull? You know, from a tool set that we’re using, you know, that allows us to get kind of a big picture of you, you know, outside of the serum in different tools will let you do different things like, you know, with sales force if you use radiance six and marketing cloud, they’re already set up to connect together and tio integrate all that data, so that process is pretty much established with small ax tools you could do a data upend, and it brings it back in and connects it for you. But then you have to work with your database administrators to figure out okay, what specific fields are going where? What new tables do we need develop? So you kind of have to work that out in very specific cases. There’s not just a, you know, a big old plug in that’s the social media plug in that everybody uses. I’ll also say just not to plug our session too much tomorrow, but we’ll be joined by daniel birgitta from the national wildlife federation, and she actually they went through and did a small act depends on dh, so she’ll be talking a little bit about that experience and what data they were looking at and how that got presented back to the rest of the staff, and i think it would be a really interesting, you know, organization that’s actually executed some of these things and how that’s look, can you can you talk a little about either that example or another client example, where, uh, i’m sort of interested in in the in the what we need to capture? On dh what? The benefit of that was any you share a client story around something, you know i could share. And i could share an example from something that i actually heard it. Dreamforce. So i went to a social listening session at dream force. And and there were some folks there from the gates foundation talking about their social listening program. What is dreamforce, dream forces? Salesforce conference that’s just todo norvig that’s their eyes. Their ntcdinosaur yes. Thank you. So i interrupted, but i like, you know, i don’t know how to be behind, okay, but, you know, but they were talking about how, you know, when they were when the u n general assembly was meeting, that they had specific you no interest in listening for certain terms in order to engage with people around certain issues. And it was it was a really interesting, practical use of social listening. In terms of, you know, one of their goals was to talk a lot about malaria, right? So so they did some social listening around malaria and the u n general assembly. And when those conversations really started a trend and that was, you know, something. People were talking about, you know, the foundation was able to capitalize on that and really focus some of their communications out into the world around what people were already talking about, and tio insert them in a really smart way into the conversation. So i, you know, i think there’s a lot of different examples, but but you do need to be pretty strategic and how you decide, teo, you know, deal with your data, do social listening on dh, what you decide to bring back into your systems and the ultimate benefit of all this is deeper relationships. Is that is that what we’re striving? Well and ultimately conversion, you know, i mean, i think like, it can be difficult to measure conversion sometimes, but i think, you know, in the end, organizations need to raise more money, right? And so how dio how do these better relationships are more engaged or two way engagement? Really, with your donors and constituents help fuel conversion and whether that’s conversion too? You know, we need more activists on the ground, you know, taking action or changing a law, or we need more fund-raising in order that, you know, help establish. Or run a program you know, that is ultimately what organizations need to do is is convert people. So i think, you know, there is a way where you can have a better customer or constituent service type relationship through social media, a better, better engagement, really, in terms of content that you have out there that can result in better conversion down the road, we still have a couple of minutes left. What else? What else do you want to say about this? I haven’t asked you about anything we talked about. You want to go deeper on anything your i know you’re feeling in our workshop. So what do you want to say? One of the big challenges? Whenever we have the discussion with people about this is, you know, exactly like you were asking, what specific data do i add in and it’s, we can’t emphasize enough how important it is to think about what you want to achieve. I know we’ve said that a couple times, but, you know, we keep hammering it in because everybody forgets about it, and they’re like, oh, no, no, no, we just we just want to get followers and tweet. Counts and and how much they tweet and how many people listen to him and it’s it’s so much more than that. And it’s really that strategy part and what are you trying to do? Why do you want those people? Why do you want more people following on twitter? What do you want them to do? What’s the purpose of having them follow that we were right trying to get up and what’s the purpose of following what kind of communication do you wanna have? And to me, it’s not any different from what we went through with email marketing. It started off the same way where everybody thought email was the next great thing, and we’re just going to send out a billion e mails and everybody’s going to come running after a couple of years you figured out you needed a better strategy for it, and social media is going through that same process of of what works, what doesn’t work? How do you communicate with people through this broadcast? Television went through it, radio went through it. Every new media channel that opens up goes through that same process of figuring out what you can do. What works? How do you make it effective? And how do you really track it and prove its worth gen anything you like, tio, you know, i just would say that it is i worked for a little bit with the corporate sector in particular around social media, and i think, you know, there is there is a great pressure to prove the value of social media, i think, you know, across across corporate culture across non-profit culture, but i will say that, you know, corporations tend to think of it a little bit more as this is a way that we build brand loyalty, right? And and in a lot of ways, it’s that’s, incredibly difficult to measure, like, how do you measure loyalty, right? But they’re spending a lot of money and trying to figure it out. And so i think, you know, that’s, something that the non profit sector will benefit from is the closer they get to kind of figuring some of that out in terms of how do we really measure, you know what this really did for us and you know, and that directly impacts their investment. How much are they going to invest? In social media, right? So so i do think that there’s some everybody’s kind of struggling with us a little, but but i agree with brian it’s, you know, it’s, another channel, it’s, another marketing channel, right? It’s not really mysterious like it’s. Another way to talk to people? It’s a slightly different format, you know, it’s, obviously a shorter format, but, you know, but email was a much shorter format than direct mail, right? So i feel like we’re kind of we’re on. We’re on kind of a very similar path, and really, we just want to have the best kind of engagement in foster the most loyalty for organizations and social media is a really great way to do that. Do you find many clients come saying they get the type of questioning that you’re suggesting, general, why? Why are we doing social media from the board? You get bored? Or maybe ceos? Why? Why? Why are we doing this? Yeah, i mean, i certainly in in the for-profit space, you know, social media budgets are minuscule compared to their other budgets around advertising and public relations, right? So the pressure to prove, uh, you know, return on investment, for example, it depends on the company, but some companies say we don’t really care. This is like, you know, less than one percent of our annual expenditure, right? Okay, that could be actually liberated, right? And others say, you need to prove to us that you know, the reason we’re giving you another x amount of dollars is because it’s actually doing something for our bottom line, but i think brands more and more are seen in particular, i think the loyalty that is inspired by the really great customer service, you know, right? And that that in particular for social media for brands becomes, um becomes really important, you know? I mean it, you end up feeling better about, you know, united airlines, for example, if they respond to you when you complain on twitter, you know, you alright somebody’s actually listening to me and i’m not sitting on hold for forty five minutes, you know? So so i think there’s a lot to be learned there just in terms of, you know, responding and engaging and the listening and the things that really in a in a regular relationship, not online, are really important to people. On di think thatyou wantto you want to foster that as well on your social media program? Brian, we have a couple of seconds. You are no it just increasing, increasing that visibility. You know, if it’s a diabetes foundation or something like that, if you see lots of tweets of them providing advice and help too people with diabetes and you visibly see that, then you see the mission is being accomplished. You see that they’re really doing what they set out to do and that it helps your organization overall help you convert. You are seeing it absolutely into as you just, jen. Whatever the forever conversion might mean it’s. Not necessarily all about older fund-raising but what could very well be excellent. Thank you very much. Thanks. Both. Thank you. Taking time in a busy conference. Brian. Brian, g c is i have it. Don’t don’t coach me. Director of marketing heller consulting jen smith, vice president, digital agency heller consulting. Thank you both very much. Thank you. Pleasure. Tony martignetti cover it. Not non-profit radio coverage of and t c twenty fourteen the non-profit technology conference. Thanks very much for being with us. I have another. Auntie si interview very shortly generosity siri’s you know them, they host multi charity peer-to-peer five k runs and walks multi-channel ity means that you can have an event with a small number of runners because together all the charities at an event make up many hundreds of runners, and then you have a great fund event all day around a five k run and walk. They have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia and toronto. If you think a run walk makes sense for your fund-raising talk to dave lynn he’s the ceo tell him you’re from non-profit radio he’s at seven one eight five o six, nine triple seven and on the web generosity siri’s dot com i have a new non-profit radio knowledge base this week, online engagement, real dialogue, real engagement in the social networks is critical. You’ve heard lots of guests talk about this, it takes strategy and planning and staff and their time and patients. I’ve got links to videos and other interviews with beth cantor, amy sample ward, j frost on a bunch of others all around the topic of online engagement. Those air at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty second of august thirty third show of the year here’s my interview from ntcdinosaur on technology and organizing welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen and tc the hashtag is fourteen and tc we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c and with me are austin levine kun and rachel butler. Austin is chief innovation officer for fish in strategy, and rachel butler is campaign representative for beyond oil. Austin rachel, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking time. Busy at a busy conference. Your your workshop topic is real talk on technology and organizing. Rachel technology has created challenges for organizing. I thought technology was improving our lives and making things so much simpler. Yeah, that’s a great question. I think that really it goes both ways. Technology has created a lot of opportunities for organizing, and it’s also created some challenges that are new on that the world that that i work in the world that we work in has has had teo learn how to use these new tools in the most effective way. To create social change, what are what are some of the challenges that you’re seeing? I think there are a lot of challenges around technology and organizing in making sure that the new technology tools that we have at our disposal don’t overtake and overcome a lot of the tried and true grassroots organizing methods when it comes down to it to create social chains and the campaigns that i work on there’s really nothing that replaces relation, organizing one to one conversations with people and that’s really part of the tried and true methods of organizing that technology can provide opportunities, tio, expand the reach that we are looking at with with the kind of outreach and campaigns that we do. But it’s, really the grassroots organizing tools that that’ll help actually makes sense of of the the reach that technology is able to give us and actually translate that into real bored world change. And i would hope that part of what technology could do is bring us two potential people tto have these deeper relationships with way we’ve broadened our reach, sort of at the at the initial stage at the meeting stage. Absolutely okay, austin, more more let’s, talk more about the challenges before we come. Absolutely and i think i think one of the things building off of what rachel was saying that i cz difficult is really making sure that you’re using the tools that we have at our disposal effectively, and i think a lot of organizations all of a sudden, sudden have access toe so much more data about the people that they’re interested in their cause but don’t necessarily know how to use it effectively, or, um, are having the challenge of understanding you have all these thousands of people who sign your petition online, but how do you actually transition from a petition signer to somebody who is willing to show up in an event or to deliver a those petitions that at the end of the day, too their representative in congress and so on with all these advantages and expanding the met of supporters that you’re able tio really attract your cause? Come these challenges with how do you then deal with or use effectively that other tools or that tools that you have available actually help to train and then to mobilize people? Okay, and what are some of these tools that we’re talking about for, for listeners, perhaps warrant themselves organizing. We’re talking about what kind of tools and then also it’s clearly data as well, right, and one of the one of the more common ones that a lot of organizations have started to look to his hand in this on online petition platform, it’s. Whether whether that’s on your own site or change that or gore move on has developed their own petition in-kind user generated petition platform that’s one of the opportunities to engage with new audiences and new supporters in one of the ones where that has also started to cause many challenges within the adivasi community, as people are still our learning over time, what were they used best for? And where are they not going to be effective? Okay, interesting. So you know, those of us who are outside the organizing community are not aware that technology and these tools are are creating some obstacles for you. Can we can we talk specifically? About what? What? Some of the online petition tools. What kinds of problems are created by them? Yeah, absolutely. Were what, like what? And so i think. One is there becomes this expectation that you’re able to win campaigns with petitions on lee, ok, and so what? And then money is starting to g o and pressures on non-profits to use petitions to raise the, um there visibility of the campaign that they’re working on, and that works for that one specific piece. But you’re not going to be able to win long term campaigns just by starting petitions, there’s a whole host of other tactics that and campaign strategies that need to accompany in online petition for it to be successful. Rachel has a good bit of experience with on this type of work with a beyond oil as well in the campaign strategy, peace and sort of this conversion. Yeah, so the way that i like to think about it is that the’s petition tools and a lot of these online tools are exactly that their tools to enable effective campaigning. And so when we have a petition tool, you know, that brings people in the door. The petition is one tactic that’s part of a larger campaign, and one of the challenges that i think austin is speaking to is what’s that arc that we’re building what’s that overall long term strategy that a petition is an important part of it’s, an important tool, but there’s there’s much more to winning a campaign and toe actually creating change, whether it’s through the sierra club’s beyond oil campaign or any campaign that’s out there there’s much more to it than just the petition, and then delivering those petition signatures. It’s an ongoing process, and that’s really where we get back to the basics of grassroots organizing. And once you have supporters are interested in issue, how do you activate them? How do you mobilize them? How do you give them the skills that they need to become organizer’s in their own right rather than just signers on a petition and at the outset, we need to have our strategy developed let’s not just put up a petition exactly. Let’s get twenty five thousand signatures on a petition that’s not a strategy that’s a that’s, a that’s, a tool and part of ah, you said, you know, part of ah process in a spectrum, and it really translates to social media also where there’s an incentive from to have more facebook fans to have more twitter followers, but the challenge that emerges from that is then what? What next? What after that and one advocates for youth, one of the organizations that was on there was represented on our panel this morning. One of the examples of the work that they do is actually when you get people commenting on their facebook page, when all of a sudden you have these thousands of support fans online, you need to actually reach out to them and see what is it like, how how would you like to be involved and really build that two way street, that relation relationship that rachel was speaking about in order to then bring them into the fold and start to build your campaign more effectively for the long term? Okay? And so the metrics for success in the pathway to success isn’t based on just the number of fans on your facebook vanity metric, right? It’s really about the deeper organizing that that enables, before we get to howto overcome these challenges, rachel, is there another one that you can share again with, you know, people who were maybe outside the organizing community, aside from what? What austin gave voice to that petitions seemed tio be the end all and be all t people what other? What other? The obstacles we try to overcome and using these tools? Yeah, i mean, i wouldn’t even necessarily talk about petitions as an obstacle. I would talk about them or as an entry point. And so if using a petition is an entry point is a great way to engage people in a campaign and some of these platforms that have been developed in recent years allow anybody to use the tools that historically have been in the hands of non-profit organizations and really democratized them and provided platform and an avenue for people that teo start their own campaigns. And so i think part of the part of the challenge that that that we’re working out, you know, as a community of advocates right now is, you know, everybody at this point has the ability to start a petition and then there’s that next step of how do we how do we really democratize that training piece so that anybody who’s starting a petition was also has the skills and has the resource is that their fingertips to how to build that into? An actual campaign. Okay, so the field is becoming a lot more crowded because of the empowerment, because anybody can create a campaign. But how? Well, well skilled are they take it to the next step? Yeah. I mean, i don’t even know if i would i would talk about it in in terms of the field being crowded. It’s that these, you know, there are lots and lots and lots of issues in this world that we need to solve, and we need lots and lots and lots of people to get involved to solve them. So i see it as really an opportunity for people who see an issue in their world to be able to have access to tools, to solve that. So to me, it’s it’s a huge opportunity to get training into the hands of people to you know who are interested in making a better world. And i think these online petition platforms are, you know, it’s, a it’s, a great tool and resource to get people involved and one of the next opportunities that were looking tio two faces, you know, howto latto bring it just beyond starting a petition and mohr into the sense of how are we training? Um, how are we training organizer’s? So that, you know, organizing is not just something that organizations do it’s something that people d’oh. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. It’s not always just don’t online, right? It’s not yeah, go ahead, austin, i think two and two that one of the challenges that is presented with this democratization of kind of social change or being able, anybody being able to say start a petition or sign a petition is then kind of that that next step of identifying we’re identifying which of those petition starters, we’re going to be the most effective leaders and able to then carrie, their campaign through to the end and actually win. And it’s not i think we’ll move on, for example, is struggling with this right now in terms of how do you know which which petition starter is going to be the most effective advocate in the long term? And then, are you able to identify that person were based on certain sides of chris characteristics or some other assessment, and then if they are, and then how can you train them and support them as they go through their campaign so that they’re more likely to be successful in the long run? Or more likely to start more petitions in the future and really become leaders in their communities? Let’s talk. About overcoming some of these challenges. Now, it sounds like it’s a lot more than just share this. But thank you for signing. Please share. We need to go a lot deeper than that. But again, those of us not in the community of organizer’s not not familiar, not aware of how you go a lot deeper. And rachel had it. How do we do some of the some of the training, for instance? Sure. That’s a great question on dh training is one of those pieces that personally, from my perspective, you know, i would love to see the development of better technology tools. Teo teo, you know, not only democratize the who can start a petition but democratize the training that it takes teo effect to run effective grassroots campaigns. So my background is is in grassroots organizing. You know, i come at the work that i do from a perspective of, you know, local organizing from state organizing, and since then i’ve moved. I’ve worked with national campaigns, and so training is one of those those pieces that gives people the tools. Tio i not only identify a problem and maybe started, you know, in the just sort of what’s what’s happening sometimes is that, you know, people identify a problem, they start a petition, but when we’re talking about campaigning, there’s there’s a whole other set of steps that goes on before you start a petition, which you can talk about is a tactic. But when you identify a problem there’s a there’s, a set of planning that that goes on in organizing, where you, you know, you identify what solution it is, you’re working for, you make it a smart goal, and then you figure out what’s the best strategy to achieve that goal, and only after that strategic planning has gone on. Do you go forward with implementing tactics like we’re going to use the petition as a tactic to reach out build abroad, supporter base and then from there will mobilize that supporter base by doing tactic non-technical number one tech to come or to attacking number three, you know, whatever it is that it that fits for your strategy, that’s going to achieve your overall goal to solve that problem that you’ve identified austin, anything running at about the training? Yeah, i think one of the i think, as rachel was saying one of the things that is key and many of these instances where there is an issue that your work men, organizations working on and there may be individuals out there that have started petition a petition on change dot org’s to try and change this, but reaching out to those both either the i think a combination of the individual that has already started the petition, but then also to your network in the communities where you’re looking to effect change and find asking them who are your existing like volunteers are leaders that are active on this issue and then asking them to start the petition so that they’re actually much more well versed in the issue and able to have the likelihood of being more successful and before that even happens, doing the media training, doing the, um so so that they’re actually once this petition is promoted, it’s not just a petition it’s a media moment and you have a spokesperson and you’re able actually tow start to mobilize around it. I could use a little more about identifying who the among the many now now in power petition creators how do we identify how among? Who among them are likely to be the the strongest leaders in the issue? Great question and there’s a there’s, a variety of different ways that this can happen and some larger organizations tend tohave metrics, systems of metrics in their databases that they used to assess how act active and individual supporter is, have they? How many different types of actions have they taken? Are they eh facebook fan? Do they have they signed an online petition? Have they attended in person event? And so through kind of those metrics, you’re able to identify some of the more likely candidates that could be those really strong super supporters in for your campaign. In addition to that, yeah, there’s the opportunity to tio have these people then go through essentially what are a series of tests instead of like an application, you asked them to take another action a couple like write a letter to the editor or write a blogger post about this issue that you care about, and in that way, vet them for your organization and then and as a result, are able to really, um, identify passively who who these people are that are most likely. To be good, good leaders for your campaign. So something that appears a call to be a call of action may actually be an organization sort of putting you to a test and seeing if you’re stepping up. Absolutely okay, yeah. Rachel, you’re going. Yeah, i was going to add. I would say, you know, it’s it’s one way vetting them is one way to think about it, but i think another way to think about it is providing opportunities to take further action because it’s, you know, think of if you get sent a petition online when i get a petition in my inbox, it may be an issue that i really care about a lot, but there’s no way for the organizer of that petition to know unless i’m provided another opportunity to take action. So part of what austin is talking about is providing those additional steps, those additional opportunities for somebody to rise to the top if it’s an issue that they are really passionate about. So part of what is what austin is talking about is providing a you know, what’s called a ladder of engagement, quote unquote, that allows people tio take further action. And get further engaged on an issue that they’re interested in in and passionate about going and what’s important to realize at the same time is that the latter is not the same for everybody and that some of your more passionate advocates are going to be turned off when you’re asking them to sign an online petition because they don’t know they know that they want to do more, and you have to give them that opportunity and so understanding that some of your more active supporters are going to be turned off by your request for them to do a any action when what they really want is to organize their friends and their community around the issue. And how are you going to know that? How do you know if you’ve offended someone? Because you’re ask is too small and here’s where the interesting challenge comes in? Is that it’s it’s an ongoing attest and battle tio identified teo figure out within your own community? What are those indicators were one of the easiest ways is really to talk to your supporters to send them an e mail to call them after they take an initial action. And or don’t take one after they’ve our been so active for a long time, okay? And in the world of of traditional grassroots organizing, part of part of one of the tools that’s used to really identify what somebody’s interested in what they are passionate about is is a one to one conversation. So you actually sit down with somebody and talk to them and ask them, you know what it what is it that motivates you? What’s, what are you interested in? And that way you’re able to not only meat your supporters where they’re at, but you’re able to gauge what’s the best way and what’s the way that they’re most interested in being involved. So i think part of part of the, um, one of the challenges that we’re facing is how do you use a lot of these tried and true grassroots organizing techniques and apply them in a digital world where you’ve got the challenges of just, you know, being in front of a screen rather than face-to-face we’ve also got these challenges of scale where you’ve got, you know, potentially, you know, one hundred thousand people signing a petition, so i think that’s part of that’s, part of the challenges that come along with technology and organizing and in in the real world, in grassroots organizing campaigns, there are some tried and true methods and tactics that we use and tools that we use teo build and win on issues and learning how to use those in the digital world is part of what you see happening right now. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you both very much. Thank you. Uh, thank you. My pleasure. Austin levine kun is chief innovation officer for fishing strategy. And rachel butler is campaign representative for beyond oil again, thanks very much. Taking time. Thank you. Pleasure. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference. Thank you very much for being with us. My thanks, as always to everybody at the non-profit technology network and ten. And at and t c was great fun being there. That was last march or april. There was last april. Loved it next week. Dori clark is with me for the hour to talk about your personal brand. Whether you’re an employee or out on your own, you’ve got a brand. What is it? And how do? You manage yours. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Remember generosity siri’s for those five k runs and walks, generosity, siri’s, dot com or seven one eight five o six, nine, triple seven. Our creative producer is clear. My raph sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing on the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Co-branding dick, dick tooting. Getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz waiting to get into thinking. Nothing. Good oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m we’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking. Hyre