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Nonprofit Radio for May 15, 2020: Leadership & Donor Advised Funds

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My Guests:

Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward: Leadership
In two recent shows, guests agreed that Amy Sample Ward represents a shining example of vulnerable leadership. So who better to speak to about leadership—whether in a crisis or not? She’s CEO of NTEN and our technology and social media contributor.

 

Maria Semple

Maria Semple: Donor Advised Funds
Let’s relieve the misery of DAFs. There may be a lot you cannot find, but you’re not helpless. Maria Semple has advice and resources for finding and reaching the funds. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder.

 

 

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[00:00:11.14] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit

[00:00:16.08] spk_2:
ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly

[00:02:03.74] spk_1:
named host. I’m continuing with a dizzy production, audacity and zoom. No studio. I don’t know if you can hear that ocean. I hear the ocean. It’s not digital. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of ridiculous senioritis if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show leadership. In two recent shows, my guests agreed that Amy Sample Ward represents a shining example of vulnerable leadership. So who better to speak to about leadership, whether in a crisis or not? Then Amy Sample Ward. She’s CEO of N 10 and our technology and social media contributor and donor advised funds. Let’s relieve the misery of donor advised funds. There may be a lot you cannot find, but you’re not helpless. Maria Simple has advice, and resource is for finding and reaching the funds. She’s our prospect research contributor and the Prospect Finder. Last week I did say we’d have a 20 TC panel with Maria. Leadership just felt more timely on tony steak, too. Take 1/3 breath were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant mountain for a free 60 day trial. And by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo Here is leadership with Amy Sample

[00:02:13.94] spk_2:
Ward. It’s always a pleasure to welcome you, Amy Sample Ward. And there you are. This is not like you have to wait until I say, you know, there you are. You’re already here. You’re here,

[00:02:15.53] spk_4:
you know? And I get to see you, you know, normally shows or like, over the phone or whatever, So yeah, I can see you. Um, thank you for such a kind intro.

[00:02:33.34] spk_2:
Love it, actually, yes. That, uh, uh let me also remind people that, uh, you your you’re you blogged at, uh you still blogging any sample ward dot or

[00:02:44.50] spk_4:
ge? I mean, I do have the website, but normally, if I’m writing something that’s either for in 10 or yeah,

[00:02:48.53] spk_2:
I’ll scratch that no more. Aimee Semple ward dot org’s is still at a me R s board. Always very good. Okay,

[00:02:52.40] spk_4:
Yes. Happy to tony.

[00:03:04.54] spk_2:
So? So Yes. Two different panels, at least one of which is a special episode. So people have already heard it. Maybe both of them. But, um, you, Ah, I brought you up, actually, as an example of vulnerable leadership. And the panels agreed immediately. So it wasn’t just wasn’t only me saying it.

[00:03:13.90] spk_1:
And then

[00:03:14.30] spk_4:
we’ll have to go find those people. Send them in. Thank you. Guessed

[00:03:32.64] spk_2:
it was about one is about leadership. And the other one was about team care. I think I’m pretty sure those were the two. So that was the leadership. One was leadership number one for our special episodes. But here we are, the ship to so vulnerable leadership. What does that does that mean to you?

[00:04:00.34] spk_4:
Um, you know, it’s not necessarily a phrase that I would use because I guess maybe the phrase I would use and what that term means to me is just authentic leadership. You know, I think you can’t be authentic if you aren’t being all sides of your emotions. You know, if there’s only like, 11 version of how you are, then I don’t think it creates a lot of space for the folks that work with you, whether inside the organization or outside to feel like they’re allowed to have multiple emotions or thoughts. You know, if you’re kind of setting the precedent, that that’s the way you expect others to be When when you hold yourself to that,

[00:04:22.44] spk_2:
Okay. Authentic, I think.

[00:04:24.15] spk_4:
Yeah. I mean, we can see we can use vulnerable. That’s just, you know, maybe not the language that I think of myself.

[00:04:32.94] spk_2:
Okay, Um, authentic ce Fine. Yeah, but it z it suggests Ah, on honesty on open. Right. Ah, collaboration.

[00:04:52.04] spk_4:
Totally. And I don’t think, you know, I love that you use the word collaboration because that’s what I think about. A lot is like, if you really collaborating with other folks, you’re all kind of joining unequal space, right? To share ideas or talker. Come up with whatever the work is your your collaborating on and the same would be true in leadership and tough times, right? Like you have to really meet and create a space where everyone can have all those emotions and work through it together. Otherwise, you aren’t really in partnership with each other. Right? You are. You’re somehow separate from everyone.

[00:05:36.94] spk_2:
Yeah, right now there are There are leaders who are not of this ilk. They would say that, you know, emotions, emotions in the workplace. Um, they don’t that they really don’t belong. You obviously

[00:06:57.64] spk_4:
don’t agree with that. You you know, I think if you don’t have, if you don’t have the kind of emotional intelligence Teoh experience those emotions identify those emotions, understand where they’re coming from and where they’re trying Teoh lead you or what they’re telling you about how you’re taking an information, then you’re not really using all the tools that nature has given you, right? I mean, a big part of being a leader is developing a really strong gut, right? Being able to like, go do your research but also have, like, you know, in the moment where things should go right, like that’s I always think a great sign of someone that, um has strong leadership, regardless of the job title, is that they’ve developed a really strong gut. And the way you do that is 100% pure emotion. By understanding like how your body is reacting in the moment, Teoh an idea or two. A conflict and understanding. Not just best. Oh, I’m having this emotion. But I know why I’m having this emotion. I know where it’s leading me. I know what my gut is telling me to do right now, you know? So if you feel like emotions aren’t welcome or not professional or shouldn’t be in your workplace, I really worry that that has hampered the ability for both you and your staff toe like truly use all their skills

[00:07:03.74] spk_2:
and then but in the same but same talking, you have to be empathic right t to recognize the emotions in others through, um, official expressions, body language, tone. Right there. I start watering, were smiling. Let’s not keep it all negative. You right there smiling there. Um, so you have to see the emotion. I

[00:07:26.04] spk_4:
think that’s the piece that takes,

[00:07:27.76] spk_2:
you know, a

[00:08:35.74] spk_4:
lot of takes a lot out of people you know is is being able to not just read and understand how others are feeling, but kind of react to that. I don’t see manager because it’s not your job to, like, manage their feelings, but be able to react to it and and both of you have a strong interaction. You know, um, I also think there’s something I see a lot in the nonprofit sector that leads to burnout us folks truly being so empathetic that they’re taking on that emotional burden of either their staff for their community that they serve. You know, it’s something to be able to read and understand and operate within emotions. And it’s another to feel like you are carrying those emotions for your staff, you know, And it’s a lot to carry our own emotions alone, like 20 more people’s emotions, you know, And you ultimately can’t do that at least not very long without burning out. You know, so understanding how you can except and address and engage those emotions that your staff maybe having whether again, whether they’re positive or negative, and and then move forward so that you aren’t just feeling then responsible for every feeling that that person has, you know.

[00:08:51.78] spk_2:
So when you’re feeling emotional about something, getting feeling an emotional reaction or you’re sensing it in the person you’re talking to, you make it explicit. Do you? Yeah, comfortable enough space that you start talking about. You know, you raised the fact let’s put aside what we’re talking about. I’m getting a reaction from you or I’m feeling this reaction to what? Your Let’s talk about how we’re feeling.

[00:10:27.84] spk_4:
I mean, I think it’s hard to put anything aside. So in the moment, you know, just saying I’m really feeling this or how are you feeling about this conversation? You know, I think, and that as adults we have, especially in this sector, we have very complicated feelings. Sometimes often the feelings are like personally feeling challenged by something and at the same time knowing how much we might have to do it, you know? And it creates like an emotional conflict within ourselves. Teoh, hold two things that are maybe opposite at the same time. You know, um and just letting folks have the space to say how they’re feeling. Not just Do you know what your next steps are? Please go do them, you know, like, how do you feel about them? Because I feel like if folks don’t have space to maim and share and address how they’re feeling about things when they go to to move forward with those next steps, they’re either not going to go as maybe effectively or efficiently as they could because they’re still like, caught up in processing how they feel about them, you know? So just spending that probably shorter amount of time undressing how folks are feeling together essentially like speeds up them being able to go do the work. You know,

[00:11:10.80] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As We received our P PP funding. Now what? That’s their latest recorded webinar. What about loan forgiveness? How do you get the max forgiven? It sounds like this is sounding abs, religion, absolution. I absolve you. You are absolved. Um, but it is just forgiveness, not absolution. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Click Resource is and recorded events to find out more about these p p p loans and forgiveness. Now back to leadership with Amy Sample Ward.

[00:12:17.54] spk_2:
I identified you as AH vulnerable leader because of the video that you posted on the Internet website that was announcing the decision to cancel the to cancel the 2020 NTC, the non profit at the conference. And there were I think there were two times in that video that we saw you wiped tears from your eyes. And not only that, but you opened up to the fact that the conference represents 62% of and tens revenue for the year. So you’re not only gonna be without that revenue, then you also had penalties that have to be paid on. So new and additional expenses penalties paid for contracts that had medical. Um, so the I guess the parts where you were teary, tearful, you didn’t. Or did you think about taking those out of the video or or doing a take to where you will be showing less emotion to the public?

[00:12:25.74] spk_4:
Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, at that point in the day, I didn’t know that there were tears left. I’d already cried in in every in every phone call I had for that day, you know? So I kind of thought I was dehydrated enough. Do not have that you bore

[00:12:42.07] spk_2:
about just just last month. I mean, yes, maybe our recording on April 28th it was Yeah. It was just last month that this will happen.

[00:12:53.50] spk_4:
I have goose bumps with you, just describing the day and having to make the video

[00:12:56.85] spk_2:
by our watering a little bit thinking about you.

[00:16:58.34] spk_4:
Yeah. I mean, I think the I mean, you know me, like I’m usually a one take person like, Well, however, that went is how it went, you know, But I guess that’s back to the authentic piece. But, you know, I also I mean, I got to the end of the video. I felt pretty good for, like, being able to continue talking. I never had to stop and cry. That felt that was kind of my bar, you know, like, I continue to talk the whole time, so that wasn’t success. And then, you know, I do it Thomas, our communications director, and said like, I cannot watch myself say those things again. So you watch the video. If you think I’m not holding it together enough, you know, I can try and do it again. And he was like, no thistles sign. You don’t have to try and do this again, you know, um but I think I have had a lot of seen back. I mean, I’m someone who cries. There are lots of people that cry, you know? Oh, and crying is great and healthy. And to me, feels like a clear sign that I I opened up the channels so that my my heart and my body can tell me when I’m feeling certain things, you know? And, um, I always cried the NTC, you know, because there’s such incredible, passionate folks. They’re sharing their stories. There are really wonderful people. Well, that we’re highlighting our awards. You know, I just get sad. That’s the last day, and everyone’s gonna leave. So, um e I have gotten feedback in the past, especially from women or non binary folks in the community that getting to see said someone willing to cry has made them feel like bay themselves. As someone who has those emotions is not unprofessional, you know, and is not doing something wrong, and she wouldn’t be who they are. So I appreciate those folks giving that kind of generous feedback. Like I you know, we don’t necessarily have a relationship. You have to tell me that, you know, So that’s a huge gift. But I also thought about that in the video after, you know, after Thomas said he was gonna use that and he said, like, it looks like you’re crying. Are you OK with us putting that out there and it was just like, this is really effin hard. Yeah, like I held it together. So I’m buying with with that. And like, maybe people won’t notice that don’t know me are paying this close attention to the video, you know? So I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, but it is really hard to say those things especially, you know, of course, we all the world is different now, and all these weeks later, we know a different truth. But at that time, these things were not known, you know? So, um, there’s there’s no reason that saying something hard has to be, like, straight faced and going No emotionless. Yeah. Um I mean, it was just just like a few, like the following sunday. Maybe after we canceled staff a staff person posted in our slack account that the Baltimore Convention Center, where we were meant to hold the conference was gonna be in Baltimore, was being transition to be a field hospital for Kobe patients. And it was like it was just a ah, huge emotional release for so many of us. Not necessarily sad, but just all those emotions, you know, that like we had put so much work into planning what we would do in that at space. And now, instead of us being there, there’s patients, you know. And what is that? How does that reflect on everything that we must have just gone through? So I don’t think there’s any way to have made that video or to have talked about that decision or those times without with without a lot of emotions, you know?

[00:17:33.84] spk_2:
Well, I admire the the willingness to share emotion and also to accept it in others. I I can’t only see how that would create a more collaborative, cohesive team, closer relationships with each individual team member on then and then as a result of a more cohesive team Overall, Uh, I can’t see. You know, I don’t I don’t understand people who, um, think that vulnerability is a sign of weakness, right? No, that makes you somehow makes you weak, and you have to be stoic. All

[00:19:41.06] spk_4:
right, very. It’s a very like white, dominant capitalist, patriarchal, even mode of thinking, right, because emotion and those paradigms is feminine and feminine is bad. Where we all have all of those traders, you know, and that emotion is uncontrolled, and that’s not good right, Those air, those air bodies of thought that want control. Um And I guess I also just would love a world where those air, not the bodies of thought, were operating with them. Right? That like we’re not We’re not here. T get the last dollar out of everything that I believe as a community, we have all the resources we need for the rural we want. It’s about working and really station ship with each other so that we can use those resources in the right ways, you know? And I think that piece about being in relationship with each other is the piece I think about. You know, when you’re talking about vulnerable leadership like if you’re in a relationship, you expect to be vulnerable with that person and have that person be vulnerable with you, right? That’s but so much of of kind of the U. S. Culture is like relationships are Onley romantic relationships like there are partner or spouse. Relationships are every person that we interact with, right? And if you’re really entering those conversations, those friendships in relationship with each other, you should be vulnerable with each other. You should be comfortable being vulnerable with each other. You know, like you and I have had off camera off camera, off audio, very vulnerable conversations, right about, like, personal growth and things that we want to work on. And that means that other craft conversations we have that maybe oranges emotional or art is vulnerable are better because we’ve also been able to have those other types of conversations, you know? So I think seeing leadership as maybe the person who stewards those relationships within the organization changes again the role in the dynamic of emotion there that you’re almost the one that has to be even more vulnerable because you’re the one saying we are in relationship here, you know? And we really should have have these connections with each other.

[00:20:39.84] spk_2:
See, this is why you’re the person who writes the books because you see, you take this from the microcosm that that we were talking about. And then you extrapolated to the broader community that has sufficient resources to achieve the missions and the goals that we want. If we could just channel those and work together. Yeah, you have ah, way of seeing the big picture. Thank you. I admire which I’d mind. Yeah, that’s a Europe. Yeah. You’re the book writing people. You know, things. If you have the books in you and those of us who have the more I don’t know, maybe more.

[00:20:42.74] spk_4:
The area is

[00:20:51.54] spk_2:
where the grounded worth the grounded level. But you take it to the next level. Um, well, so

[00:20:52.32] spk_4:
what? So can I, like, reverse the interview and s

[00:20:57.27] spk_2:
so I don’t like when, uh, you know,

[00:20:59.06] spk_4:
you don’t. That’s why I e

[00:21:02.05] spk_1:
ever turned you down. Maybe I did in the beginning.

[00:21:19.64] spk_4:
So? So just as like, a thought experiment. Not that you have toe, you know, share something that you don’t want to share on the air. But you know it. There are there examples when, like, what’s your anti? See a video? What’s what? You had to share something. It is not to being broadcast with the world like our video, but you know it. Is there something that wasn’t wasn’t bound within a romantic relationship, but was an example where you were having to share information or news or ask a question that required your vulnerability in relationship with someone professional?

[00:22:13.04] spk_2:
Yeah. The ones that come to mind are a couple of a couple of shows. A ah show on diversity equity and inclusion with Jean Takagi. Where we, you know, we talked explicitly about white male power. Yeah. Ah, and history. Um, and then another one that you and I did I don’t remember Was that it was at a d I conversation? No, it was when you and I talked about poverty. Porn?

[00:22:19.29] spk_4:
Oh, yeah,

[00:22:25.44] spk_2:
that was, uh, that was a moving one for, um, So those are those are a couple of those mind. Yeah.

[00:22:31.06] spk_4:
Thanks for sharing. What is Iris? Yeah, I know. You want to turn it back around?

[00:23:51.94] spk_2:
No, no, because I there there are There are people who have, you know, have this format, But going back decades, um, who I admire like Dick Cavett. Cavite is ah, seems to be a very vulnerable and authentic host of his show. And there’s hundreds of clips on YouTube of him. Yeah, and he opens up, and I you know, um, there are other folks as well. Ah, maybe lesser known, you know, but that I take cues from yeah, producing the show. But in being a host, like the host guest interaction, Dick Cavett is is my number one because he because he is so authentic. Yeah, so it doesn’t, you know, Yeah, I think those were sort of breakthrough moments. I would count those. I don’t know if you count your in 10. You know, the NTC cancellation video is a as a highlight of your career, but when those conversations happen, it’s completely organic. You know? I know D eyes a sensitive topic, but I didn’t know that I was going to get emotional with g discussing it. Right. But

[00:24:41.44] spk_4:
I think part of that reflection that you’re having is also the acknowledgement that whether the topic is sensitive or not, it’s that you feel personally responsible for your actions within that topic, right? Like I think about, um, I have some friends who have had a history with cancer, and, you know, when they share stories of Dr that was like and here’s like the news, blah, blah, blah, it’s so hard. And somehow it is easier when the doctor is also sad, you know, and feeling like this is really hard. We’re gonna talk about this. We’re also gonna talk about treatment and and whatever, but you don’t have to not share the news, But you also don’t have to share it in a cold way. You can be. You can you can share in that kind of personal space of that topic with someone, and I kind of hear that in your reflection. You know that? Yeah. Is it? It’s a hard topic, but you were willing to be kind of responsible for yourself in that topic, you know?

[00:26:02.35] spk_2:
Um, all right, So how does it let’s bring it back this back to the leadership, then? Yes, Um, where we’re talking about being open emotionally, being authentic, Um, empathic, I think subsumed in all this is listening, active listening as well as feeling emotion, hearing words as well as as well as taking in the full person. Not just not only what they’re saying, but listening to their words. Um, curious minded, sometimes in leadership, uh, one of the at least one of these, uh, previous special episodes. The idea being curious minded, you know? Yeah. Asking questions, not just taking what said. And I guess, you know, ignoring your own questions about it, being willing to admit that you don’t understand something that someone has just explained you know, maybe you’re hearing it for the first time. It doesn’t have to be a technical subject. You know, it could be a to be a very emotional subject, but you just don’t You don’t quite you don’t grasp. But you’re curious enough and authentic enough to ask, you know, could you flesh it out more?

[00:26:21.08] spk_4:
Yeah. Being curiosity is

[00:26:25.60] spk_2:
I just don’t understand what you’re all

[00:28:31.24] spk_4:
right. I think curiosity is something that folks could use so much more. I feel like I don’t hear folks talk about curiosity very much. And I feel like it could be a pass for all of the times When you’re like, I don’t get what you’re saying instead of having to say or fight and some nice way to say, like, can you please repeat that? Because I don’t understand. You could say I’m really curious, you know, like, can you keep talking about it because I’m just very curious. And using curiosity as Urine road both for understanding and kind of letting folks further explain themselves is such a kind of positive neutral entry point instead of you’re not making sense, right? Or you did not explain that to May right. It’s like I’m curious. Please just keep keep explaining. You know, um and I think the other part of what you’re saying there is acknowledging that as a leader. And again, I don’t think a leader is only someone who has, like, CEOs, their job title. Anyone in any moment is maybe the leader right of their project on their team or whatever, but acknowledging that you don’t already know everything in my experience, that looks like not knowing how to do any certain thing that pops up as an organization. It’s so much more freeing for me as an individual t just openly say, Well, it’s certainly never canceled the NTC before. So, like, I don’t have answers to your questions about what we’re about to do. But I know that we’re gonna stay in relationship. We’re going to stay in this room. We’re gonna stay in this together, and collectively we will figure out the answers to those questions. We will figure out what it is we need to do, and then we will do it, you know. But, um releases myself of having to, like, anticipate every single question to know the answer. When, of course, I don’t know those answers. I’ve never done this before. A lot of people, you know? I mean, we’re on our, uh, you event planners association list. And everyone in March was like, I’ve literally never canceled an event What we stole student yet saying, because that’s not the world that we’ve ever lived in. So getting to let go of that expectation for yourself, Let’s your staff again. Let’s hold it for themselves. You know? And I think more deeply creates unauthentic relationship where staff could say, wow, Amy openly admitted that she had no idea what she was doing. Now, I don’t feel as much pressure to say I don’t know what I’m doing. Can you help? You know, and

[00:28:52.24] spk_2:
coming from that creates, I think, builds confidence in the team that can. None of us knows now, but collective 20

[00:28:59.63] spk_4:
four hours later, collectively, we figured out

[00:29:02.08] spk_2:
we’re gonna figure it out. Yeah,

[00:29:03.39] spk_4:
Yeah, totally. I think it builds a lot of the like resilience muscles, you know, because people have experienced Whoa, I’m up against the wall. I don’t know what to dio. We set out loud that we don’t know what to do. We came up with a plan together, we implemented the plan. Look, now we’re moving forward, Okay? Next time I’m up against that wall of I don’t know, I can say, Oh, I’ve been here before Like I have the muscle memory to say, Hey, like, even faster this time I’m gonna raise the flag that I don’t know what to do. And I need help, you know? And it cuts down on all that shirt, You know, Um and it makes it less emotionally trying, I think because you’ve already done it Waas, you know, And now you could say, Oh, it wasn’t like this. It wasn’t Is that as I thought? So it’s not gonna sting when I say, hey, I don’t really know what

[00:29:47.89] spk_3:
to do. Yeah, through

[00:29:49.37] spk_2:
that NTC cancellation in 21. Wait,

[00:30:00.54] spk_4:
do anything now? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:30:01.74] spk_6:
Um let’s talk a

[00:30:28.89] spk_2:
little about self care, as as a leader Teoh to be authentic and vulnerable. Um, I think there are things you have to do for yourself when you’re when you’re not. You’re not the CEO. Um, how do you know if you think about it explicitly is I’m gonna take care of myself. you probably don’t. That sounds that sounds too. I e take care of myself so I can take care of intent and the technology in the non profit space now. But

[00:31:38.30] spk_4:
I think about it. More regeneration. You know, whether I need to have energy again for tomorrow. Or sometimes I’m looking at my calendar for the day, and I think, like, what do I need to have the energy I need for for those other meetings I see coming up, Like, I might see that there’s a meeting that I know is gonna take a lot, you know, And there I’m sure many people listening to this understand, like sometimes you wake up and you look at your calendar you like, how do I have literally eight hours straight of back to back meetings like this is not a human’s schedule. So I will bump some of those meetings and give myself okay. I think I need this pacing. I think I’m gonna need a break before this other, you know, discussion or whatever. Um, and move those meetings, but so there’s like the tactical calendar management. I really do think it’s self care if you are setting yourself up to have days that aren’t sustainable. You’re not gonna make it through, you know? And yes, we all have demands on our time, But we’re also in charge of our time and we can say actually, have two minute insisted I’m gonna be present with you. So why should we even bother talking? You know, let’s move to me.

[00:31:42.81] spk_2:
You are in control of your own calendar.

[00:33:24.54] spk_4:
Yeah, and the other thing that I have found, at least for me, is having a really strong meditation. Practice helps on a daily or multiple times a day place because for me and you know, this is just what works for me and my personality and my mind, this doesn’t like prescriptive. And of course, if you don’t do this, something’s wrong. But for me being able to sit with how I’m feeling with how I’m reflecting on actions or conversations, being able to like, kind of come home and be accountable to myself is the hardest judge. It’s a lot easier, I think, people, I think it’s easier for folks that I work with our relationships with Teoh Teoh, give me a pass out of things that I know. I’m gonna be harder on myself than someone else. What? I think that’s true for many of us, right? We’re always our harshest critic, so accepting that in creating space where I’m really just sitting with myself and having to accept and let go or process or or make a plan for something has helped me tremendously because I can then let go of something instead of, you know, kind of keeping it in the doctor, my mind haunting May as I move forward, I could say, actually, like, clearly that didn’t go the way I wanted it to go. I wasn’t the version of myself I wanted to be. And, you know, there’s been whatever restoration I’ve apologized or I’ve talked to that person. But that piece is done, and the peace with myself is still there. And using meditation as a process for kind of accepting myself on letting those things go has has really created a lot of space, I think, for growth in my in myself and in my job,

[00:33:36.34] spk_2:
its authenticity with yourself. Yeah, comfort with yourself.

[00:34:06.24] spk_4:
Yeah. Yeah, And I think the biggest lesson honestly is, except like I’m someone who loves to learn. I think that if you already know everything about what you’re doing, you’re probably quite bored. You know, I’m glad that I show up to work and like what I do, What I have to do today. Let’s get this out. You know, that feels great. It’s like I get to stretch every day. Um, but it also means that I have to learn things the hard way, you know, because I didn’t already know them. And so having that meditation practice, just sit with myself and say like, it’s OK that I didn’t know that it’s okay that I learned it in a real rough way, you know, and and really think about what? Out of that experience I did learn and back to what we were saying earlier. Like all of those pieces of acceptance and acknowledgement and and reflection kind of get filtered in to building a stronger and stronger gut, you know, so that the next time I’m in that situation, I can hear and listen and say, Oh, I know what’s happening here. Like I’ve got all those little puzzle pieces telling me this is the same as that one time, you know and know how to move forward in the moment,

[00:34:57.24] spk_2:
I feel like leaving it there. Is there anything? Is there anything you wanna you want to leave our listeners with?

[00:35:36.84] spk_4:
I guess I would say, Of course, everything I’ve shared is my own experience in reflection, and we’re all different people. But if there’s part of you that’s wishing that you had done something differently or could be more vulnerable with your staff, or just operate Maurin relationship with the people that you collaborate with, you can just start doing that. There doesn’t have to be like announcement that’s rolled out that today you will start, you know, operating differently or communicating differently. You don’t You don’t need to save it because you’ve operated a certain way. You have to stay in that way like we’re humans, and we’re meant to change and evolve and grow. So if you want to be more open, just start being more open. Even if it feels awkward at first. You’ll get better at it cause your practice, you know, and then you can can have that be your default,

[00:36:08.08] spk_2:
every sample ward. Love it. Thank you CEO and our social media, social media and technology contributor and you’ll find her at a me R s Ward. Thank you very much.

[00:36:11.93] spk_4:
Thank you, tony.

[00:36:17.33] spk_2:
So good to talk to you. Yeah, like here. Keep

[00:36:17.65] spk_1:
taking care. Yeah. Keep taking care of yourself.

[00:36:19.83] spk_4:
Yes. Stay well.

[00:36:22.12] spk_2:
You too.

[00:39:28.11] spk_1:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software. Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that you can count on and that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two. Take 1/3 breath. I’m tripling down on my relax ation advice. It is not merely okay for you to put yourself first at some time each day. It’s essential you have to do it. Make time for yourself each day. Make it the same time each day. If that helps you remember to do it. Hopefully you don’t have to forget you don’t forget that you come first sometime. But I understand working through your in a you’re gonna flow. I understand that. So maybe making it a definite set time. Each day helps you to put aside that time for yourself. But you’re being asked to do stuff that you hadn’t done before in ways and in a place, your home. But with, you know, circumstances around that you haven’t been asked before. And if you have Children, then you’re being asked to do all this while your kids are home. It takes toll on you, so you need to take time for yourself to rejuvenate its not just relaxing. It’s rejuvenating its recovering time recovery time. So please take that time for yourself. For me, I go outside. Um, like I said earlier, I don’t know if you can hear the ocean in the background, but it’s there. Um, I got this ocean across the street every day. I wake up it ZX still there, so I go outside 2030 minutes. Maybe it’s Ah, lunch, uh, or just sitting. If it’s not nice enough outside, then I sit inside and have lunch inside, looking out of the ocean or just watching sitting on the sofa watching. So whatever it is for you, you may not have a notion. Ah, what can you do for yourself. A walk, a trip to a park? Uh, it may be It may be listening to music. Um, if that’s if that’s good for you, whatever it is that can help you to rejuvenate Recover, do it. Take the time for yourself each day, please. That is tony. Stick to now. It’s time for donor advised funds with Maria. Simple.

[00:39:45.22] spk_6:
My pleasure to welcome back Maria. Simple. You know who she is? She’s the Prospect Finder and our Prospect research contributor. She’s at the prospect finder dot com and at the Prospect Finder. Reassemble. Welcome back.

[00:39:47.12] spk_3:
Thanks, tony. Good to be here.

[00:40:22.91] spk_6:
Yes. Well, I’m sorry you can’t be with me at the beach. I don’t know if the video is gonna turn out okay, but I just decided that any schmoe could record on zoom and put an ocean background, uh, behind them. But, uh, any Schmo can’t just walk to the beach and get unauthentic ocean background. So I’ve got one good using card. I’m tired of being in just any Schmo. No, I’m breaking out now. No, no, no. Most smiles. You know, most smoke for may. You’re doing a okay, right?

[00:40:24.71] spk_3:
We’re doing just fine. Thank you. Yeah. Like you were blessed to live near near the water and can get out for a beautiful walk. Clear your head and get some fresh air.

[00:41:05.01] spk_6:
Yeah, I’m looking East, Uh, in your direction. Right now, you’re several miles up or over, actually, not up, but, uh, looking east. I’m looking in your direction. Nice point. Puffy clouds you got there. So we’re talking about donor advised funds. What? Yeah, you know, they’ve been around for years or nothing new? Uh, no, that it could be a source of headache for non profits. Why do you feel like now is a good time to talk about it? Well, you know, I’ve been hearing a

[00:41:38.77] spk_3:
lot of discussion about them recently, and I think that, um, about sure if that’s because in this period of cove, it a lot of people are using their donor advised funds to make some contributions to organizations to help them out. But I started doing a little bit of digging to see really just how large feet I’m going to say the industry because the come and what I found was this report that’s put out annually by something called the National Philanthropic Trust. And they dio a donor advised fund report every year. And I couldn’t believe when I saw that the, um the rapid growth that they’ve had, that they had an 86% increase in contributions in the last five years to donor advised funds.

[00:42:02.40] spk_6:
Okay, that’s money. That’s money into donor advised funds. How about money coming out of them getting into charities hands

[00:42:50.68] spk_3:
so that that number was 23.42 billion with a B. No, I feel very significant number. And so, anyway, it’s just something that I thought we hadn’t covered really in the show and something that we probably shouldn’t ignore. Um, it’s really vexing for fundraisers for prospect researchers because, um, donors will often set these up as a way to perhaps give Anonymous anonymously in some cases, although, according to Fidelity, about 90% of donors go ahead and say, you know, release my name and contact information to the non profit when I make this gift. So I thought it was something we could at least explore talking about.

[00:43:34.80] spk_6:
Yeah, I think vexing is ah, good way to describe it, because I’ve been hearing this for years, that charities get frustrated when ah, get these gifts and they they have to then follow up with the company of the administrator for the for the of the fund and and plead for donor information, sometimes to get it. Sometimes they don’t wait. You just said about ability. Um, I don’t know that older people I know all the times don’t do that because we’re hearing these frustrations for years. So, uh, all right, so you got some ideas about what we can we can do to overcome these vexations?

[00:45:42.01] spk_3:
Yes. So I thought we talked about some prospecting. Resource is, you know, to do some proactive prospecting. Obviously, if you have the name of the donor advised fund, you would do some additional research on it. But you can also, um, just try and do some proactive prospecting. Your resource is you can use for free. Um, and fee based resource is as well. So let’s start with free, right? You can certainly try and Google, right? You can google the ah donor advised fund and maybe your state and see how maney come up in maybe articles or listing somewhere in a state listing. But I thought guidestar had some some pretty good information for for the nonprofits to start doing some proactive prospecting and list building of donor advised funds that might be in their in their area. Um, so one example that I that I pulled waas um, I just went ahead and searched just on the term donor. Advised I left off the word fund. I just you know, sometimes less is more when you’re doing these these types of searches. Okay, So I typed in the word donor advised in guidestar. Um, and this is under a free account, and I, uh, down nationwide, it came back with 527 search results. Um, I was able to sort by gross receipts. That was interesting to me. Just to kind of see, you know, largest to smallest type. Um, and top top number one, As you might expect, we’ve already mentioned it with fidelity. Um, so number one came up its fidelity number two Jewish Communal Fund number three, Goldman Sachs, Philip Philanthropy Fund number four, Silicon Valley Community Foundation and number five. You guess number your

[00:45:42.97] spk_6:
your community trust.

[00:45:48.99] spk_3:
Actually, no, it’s Ah, vanguard. Okay. I want to be able

[00:45:52.72] spk_6:
to guess that New York community profound spotless that for? Well, I just want to stay. Keep the guests. That newest community trust

[00:45:57.81] spk_3:
actually didn’t even make top 10.

[00:46:19.23] spk_6:
Alright, Alright, alright. So if we have these, all right, we have we have We know that we know all the players now. 520 some, uh, but there still is. The individuals control the money in the funds. What? What do we do now that we know the names of the funds? So one of the things

[00:47:11.38] spk_3:
that you could consider doing is seeing if the fund is somewhere nearby or whatever. Try and, um, you try and develop a relationship with some of the personnel at at the fund itself, right? So these would be employees don’t eyes front and not necessarily the family. Ultimately, if you see the family’s name attached so it might say something like, um, the Maria Simple Fund at Fidelity. Right? That might be the formal name that ends up coming through. So then you would research on that person’s name as much of a hand and using a lot of the research talked about here on the show minimum Coble, especially first time you’ve ever received a gift from EPA. Wow. That’s why.

[00:47:31.06] spk_6:
Wait. All right, So So you’re saying you first you search the fund in searching the funds and guidestar individual names come up. Is that what you’re saying? Well, I’m gonna be o

[00:47:54.88] spk_3:
of the big funds, but the smaller don’t recognised may have the person’s name as well, right? So you want to make sure that you’re just doing some in depth research, So even on the big ones you’re able, Teoh, you’re able to see a list of gifts, and they give how they paid out. Even look at every gift. Fidelity’s the Fidelity investment charitable gift, but is make, um and say you’ll have

[00:48:37.87] spk_6:
Okay. Okay, So you going todo and that. Okay, you look at the 9 90 of that funding. You can see the gifts that came from there. Right. Okay, right away. That’s down for Ah, a couple minutes before that. Was the Beach patrol going by one. Make sure everybody everybody knows this is an authentic background. I don’t want to be any any, uh, questioning of my integrity on background. That was the beach patrol girl by Okay, um, all right, So? Well, yeah, you could. You could start a cross match The larger fund names that you find with your with your own. Crn You could do that too,

[00:49:17.21] spk_3:
right? Right. Absolutely, Absolutely. Okay. Um, and and so, you know, like I said, for freight, somewhat limited as to what you can search for. One of the fee based resource is if I might just mention that people can take a look at and also get a free trial to, um is I wave, so you could definitely try it. Try that one out. Um, I had done a search nationwide to see just on the terminology advised fund and yielded over 16,000 results. Now, some were duplicates, right? So some were mentioned with months. Um, I just

[00:49:28.74] spk_6:
What? What is I wave? What is that? What does that have to do?

[00:49:33.17] spk_3:
So it is, um, It’s similar to, you know, we’ve talked about some of these other fee based resource is before, like, wealth and so forth. So it’s a tool that prospect researchers will use. That is a fee based resource. Um, and so you’re gonna get your yield a lot more surgeries, adults, and you can manipulate the data and export spread meats and so forth.

[00:50:03.61] spk_6:
So you could also use waiting for individual prospect research. Well, yes, absolutely. Get get out what people would get for their see if you have a struck tie with any idea what the seas are. Do you remember?

[00:50:13.60] spk_3:
Um, I don’t know right now, You know, I usually don’t like to try and get into that on your show because it lives forever. Right on your

[00:50:21.56] spk_6:
Well, yeah, I was, I would say it was from 2020 or something. Okay.

[00:50:25.74] spk_3:
Yeah. Yeah. So I would recommend because normally what will happen is you’re gonna Also it’s a screening tool. So you could also do it on entire screening of your database. So usually they’ll bundle it in, Um, you get a screening done, and then access to the to the search tools for, like, a year or something like that. So very often the fees are gonna be based on your dad.

[00:51:13.70] spk_1:
Time for our last break. Turn to communications. They’re former journalists so that you get help getting your message through. It is possible to be heard through this Corona virus cacophony. And you want to be heard other times beyond this. Of course, they know exactly what to do to make that happen. They’re at turn hyphen two dot CEO, you’ve got but loads more time for donor advised funds.

[00:51:23.90] spk_6:
Okay, so you’re you’re against your cross referencing your search results with your own C r m.

[00:52:04.04] spk_3:
Right? Right. So, you know, I like the fact that you can exported into the spreadsheet again. You cross check it with your own C R M. Maybe circulated with Lauren Development Committee are other staff members And have a discussion. I started getting curious, you know, out of all those house. Well, how many of those funds donor advised funds are in North Carolina, right where we’re both residing and actually tries to order 177. Results from Dr Guys funds. It came up just in the last five years or so. Um, so

[00:52:08.25] spk_6:
that is it. Right? That doesn’t sound like very many. 177 donor advised fund gif ts the whole state of North Carolina for five years.

[00:52:16.56] spk_3:
No, those were a donor Advised funds.

[00:52:25.44] spk_6:
All those in the funds, not the gift from the OK, Those aren’t the individual accounts in the funds. Okay, There are almost 600 funds in North Carolina. OK, got you

[00:52:29.83] spk_3:
170 7

[00:52:34.65] spk_6:
177 OK? Yes. Yeah.

[00:53:13.42] spk_3:
Anyway, there certainly something Teoh look for. Especially if you’re trying to reach out to more regionalize families. And, you know, that might be concentrating there. They’re getting in your particular state because then you can see exactly where the gifts on. You know, the types of organizations that A that the owner of my sons have been looking for example. So you can see, you know, there that the gift that here was here, the gift was made. Ah, you can see the where the gift was made, the type of non profit that it is. It’s you. No, you can’t. Yes, You get a lot of data.

[00:53:39.99] spk_6:
Okay. So you could see the charities that they gave Teoh for those similar to your your work. Okay. Exactly. So maybe so. Maybe I waves worth the extra extra money. Whatever it iss. All right, just, uh I wave dot com or yeah, yeah. Oh, um, so couple other things

[00:54:44.24] spk_3:
I wanted to let everybody know about, um I learned that there’s a site e a f not award. Okay, DF direct and what they what you can do there is. It’s a great tool for non process use, and it facilitates giving, um, through donor advised funds. There’s a widget that you can add as a non profit chili gordo so that, as people are, you know, maybe research on their own and, you know, for non profits to donate to in their community, if they stumbled on your organization in their own search, right, maybe they’re using GuideStar or another similar tool to research nonprofits. If you come up and they get to your website, why not make it is easiest possible to connect directly from your website to their donor advised funds. So it’s a widget that connects don’t raise funds and to the donors.

[00:54:52.74] spk_6:
All right, so people are browsing your site. They can click on this and give

[00:54:53.29] spk_3:
him a

[00:55:01.74] spk_6:
group, right? But they have to have a donor advised fund at one of the one of the entities that coordinates or that’s affiliate with this ridge. It right?

[00:55:17.96] spk_3:
Yes, but so many of them are right now, so it’s definitely something that that actually was. I was doing my research for this show that came up multiple. Bless you.

[00:55:19.24] spk_6:
Told you I said I was gonna sneeze, but you’re that’s you’re talking.

[00:55:23.93] spk_3:
So it definitely is worth looking at that site and seeing if that’s a widget. You may want to add to your own website because it’s gonna cost anything.

[00:55:45.67] spk_6:
Okay, Okay. And they’re affiliated with some of the top ones. Okay. All right. Um, you could also be talking to your You know, you could always reach out to your donors. Um, through Europe, you’re here. Whatever your channels are to remind them that they can make their own donor advised fund distribution. You know, technically, it’s a recommendation. But 99.9% of the recommendations get accepted. Approved. But, you know, you could just be directly reminding donors that they can give to you through their donor advised fund.

[00:56:09.13] spk_3:
That’s right. That’s right. So make sure that Burbage is on your website and any other marketing materials and communications that you have.

[00:56:24.73] spk_6:
Yeah. Yeah. Just remind you people. Um okay. I mean, that that was an easy one. Just what else? Ah, you’ve been thinking about this longer than I have what else will?

[00:56:28.98] spk_3:
So the other thing, too that I think some people forget to ask for is to set up recurring gif ts to your organization. So if you’re already getting some money from a donor advised fund, why not approach those that family and see if they’d be interested in setting up recurring donations to your organization? Supposed to a one once a year gift. So very often it’s very easy for the fund administrator to set that up for you. Um, so that would be a great way to bring in some additional, more consistent cash flow here, or there you

[00:57:02.20] spk_6:
go. Yeah, right. Sustaining sustainer gifts from donor advised funds. Okay.

[00:57:07.97] spk_3:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. Um, and then, you know, finally, you want to think about success successor gifts, So you can have, um the organization can be named as his successor after the donor dies. So you you know, as you know, tony and plan giving and so forth the language has to be set up properly and so forth, so that might be a discussion to have with people a swell to breathe. The organization to be named as the successor to the fund

[00:57:43.01] spk_6:
Okay. Very good. Just wait. Same way donors can name your organization to there as a beneficiary of their life insurance policy or pension IRA. Any any. Any financial asset with, ah, people on death or a transfer on death closets called. But you don’t have to know that. Just you have to know this is a death beneficiary possible and that can apply to your donors. Donor advised funds as well.

[00:58:08.29] spk_3:
That’s right. That’s right. Yeah.

[00:58:13.62] spk_6:
All right. Very simple. Cool. Um, anything else I don’t want to cut. You don’t cut you off? No,

[00:58:16.80] spk_3:
I I’m looking at my last Avenger. I’m looking at my notes, and I think that I think we covered all the bases that I want to touch upon And, you know, just making sure that people understand that even though they can be vexing, there are some things that you can do to research them and to build relationships and definitely thanking and stewarding those that are already donating to you through a through a donor advice fund.

[00:59:53.37] spk_6:
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Don’t don’t be put off by these things And there’s enormous amounts of money in them. Is enormous amounts of money coming from them to charities. Um, everything you said? I agree. Just like yeah, they’re not going to Calgary. Oh, yeah, you can’t be. You can’t be put off by the vexations. You may not find out whoever who every gift came from, but you can make efforts best efforts and you’ll find out a good number of them. And you will be able to thank your donors. I remember, you know, and some don’t just want to be anonymous. No, they just don’t want to be. No. So that’s your donor’s choice. It’s not the administrator deliberately frustrating your purpose. Your donors. Some of the donors may just want to be anonymous, and that’s their prerogative. So except that move on to the donors that you can find and thanking and well, solicit for the future. So definitely look into donor advised funds. Don’t be put off by them. There’s enormous wealth in them. There’s enormous wealth coming from them. Okay, Thank you. Very simple. Alright, Maria Sample. She’s the Prospect Finder. The prospect finder dot com our prospect research contributor our doi end of their cheap and free. Uh, you’ll find her at the Prospect Finder. Thanks very much. Foria. Thanks.

[01:00:09.12] spk_3:
Have any good to see you

[01:00:48.58] spk_1:
next week? 20 NTC panels. Most likely if you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our

[01:01:28.50] spk_0:
creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff. I did the postproduction Sam Liebowitz managed The Stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy. In this music is by Scots. He was the next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for October 19, 2018: Your Tech RFPs & Donor Advised Funds

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Drew McManus & Ceci Dadisman: Your Tech RFPs
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Gene Takagi: Donor Advised Funds
Gene TakagiGene Takagi returns to discuss the pros and cons of this increasingly popular donation method that gets lots of press. It’s gifts for nonprofits, why all the fuss? We’ll find out. Gene is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law firm.

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with sheer adoni sis, if i saw that you missed today’s, show your tech r f p s to tech providers from eighteen ntc reveal what they wish you knew about crafting your proposal solicitations plus a few secrets their colleagues wish they wouldn’t reveal. They’re drew mcmanus principle of venture industries online and sissy dad baizman from form and donor advised funds jean takagi returns to discuss the pros and cons of this increasingly popular donation method that gets lots of press it’s gets for non-profits where all the fuss we’ll find out. Gina’s, our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm tony take two a driving rant responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p wender cps guarding you beyond the numbers gregor cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four four, nine, nine, nine here are drew mcmanus and cc data zeman from the non-profit technology conference welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur twenty eighteen non-profit technology conference we are in the convention center in new orleans, nola, louisiana, and we’re kicking off our coverage with this interview. This interview, like all, is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profit i’m very pleased to welcome for our kickoff interview. Drew mcmanus and cc dahna sametz drew is principal of venture industries online and cc is digital marketing manager four for money and your seminar topic is everything tech providers wish you knew about reading an r f p plus the stuff you want they want, plus the stuff they want to keep secret. All right, let’s hope that the conversation is shorter than the title. Welcome well thinking. Well, you’re very welcome, let’s start off cc i love you. I don’t know, i don’t know if viewers of the video are not gonna be able to see your pendant, so show that off. No, all that off. Put that on the mission in camp. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Very striking. Thank you. Why do we need this topic ? What’s what ? What’s not going right with peace ? Well, i think it a very basic level as non-profits we all need to do our peas at one point or another. Right ? And sometimes they can be a source of a little bit of trepidation for, to write and to sort of put out there to vendors. And we felt that this was a very timely topic to talk about to help ease people’s minds a little bit about that. And really give them some deeper information into the r f p process. Yeah, okay. Drew there’s, there’s trepidation people people are fearing this this process, right as a web developer, we get extremes there’s either trepidation where people don’t know how to approach it because they don’t feel comfortable with how to evaluate proposals. They don’t know what to ask for. They just don’t know how to kick the process off or on the other side of that. They have this extensive laundry list of things they think they want without really knowing even what they can can’t ask for or what i knew. Platforms and options are available. The r f p process really should be more involved with learning what you have and what can be. Okay, so that’s, what we’re gonna be talking about what you have and what can be so both of you are on the receiving end of a piece. Is that right ? From from non-profits currently, although i’ve spent most of my career working full time at non-profit organizations and as a consultant working on behalf of the non-profit for these kind of things. So that’s sort of how we’re approaching this drew is definitely on the vendor side, but my experiences is farm or on the non-profit side. Okay. Okay. So, let’s, stay with u c c your description promised tio pull back the curtain. What ? Pull back the curtain of how tech providers are crafting their proposals. Okay, with you right now, he’s. The current can you ? Uh, yeah, yeah. I mean, i could talk a little about what’s behind this curtain. Yeah, i can talk about it a little bit from the from the non-profit side in creating the r f p you know, our peace can be a really big project, right ? They could be something has looked at that is that is very involved because you want to make sure that what you’re putting out there is is true to the project that you’re looking toa have completed, and you want to make sure all the right information is in there so that you get the right vendors because ultimately you want a good vendor experience. You had a good working experience and we want attracting the right exactly you want you want the right vendors toe look at that project and won a bid on it, and ultimately you want to find the best vendor for your particular organization on dso in this session, you know, we’ll talk a lot about, you know, really what needs to go in that r f p from the non-profit standpoint, it only in the session we’re going to sharing here, too, right here yet. Zoho back on non-profit radio listeners, i don’t know we’re going to be doing out here too, right ? Right now we are ok, we are right. So one of the big things that we’ll talk about from the non-profit standpoint is at a very basic level just being honest about what you need from this project to put into the r f p, you know, bring all of your assets together, bring your team together before you even start writing the r f p to, you know, figure out what you really want let’s say it is, you know, a website project. You know what ? You really want this website to do what you want, tohave it, what you want to have contained in it. You know what your delivery bals are, what type of conversions you’re looking at so that you can start the process out where everything is sort of laid out on the table before you’re even starting to write the r f p and then as you go through the r f p process, making sure that all of those things are in there so that you know it’s full disclosure for the vendors, okay, what i what should we have in place before we start typing words into r r r f what does stick with you ? Ok, the big things to have in place are number one, the team that is going to be working on this project and have a point person assigned. For the project and that’s a really big thing, making sure that there is somebody responsible for communicating with the vendors about the project, who, you know is going to make the time and the energy commitment to do that, and also gathering together all of the information that needs to go in the website, whether that’s text or photos, multimedia files, whatever that might be bringing all of getting all of that together because ultimately your vendor will need that you’ll have to give it to them eventually, so might as well do it right off the bat, and then you need to gather together all of your other sort of software providers. You know, any other piece of tech that might touch that website ? So if you have, you know, a fund-raising cr m ifyou’re in arts and culture organization, and you’re selling tickets to shows, you know that that software is well, you know, your email marketing software, whatever those things are that need to interact with that website in some way getting all of those things together. Okay ? It’s, time for a break pursuant they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take the secrets from the fastest growing startups and apply those methods and good practices to your non-profit it’s free as all the pursuant resource is our it’s on the listener landing page. You know where to find that it’s tony dot m a slash pursuing the capital p for please now back to your tech or f p’s drew let’s, go to you. Who should be the point person ? Who’s the right person were now our listeners small and midsize non-profits so i’m gonna assume there is no director. Ok, correct. We should be in charge of this process. Dede was sisi was describing. I knew that was gonna happen that way. Have a dd coming later. I’ll answer to it. It’s not here. Now, it’s actually, cee cee cee is with us who should be in charge for most organizations is going to be the marketing director or the vp of marketing that’s typically the person who ends up becoming the point person because they’re going to be the gatekeeper for most of the content architecture that sisi was talking about. And so that’s usually a decent person to be able to be the point to contact oh, and process the art piece that are going to come in, you know, i’m one year earlier questions you had toss to see see about, you know, the things that we’re looking, i didn’t metoo i’m not gonna look at me, i’m gonna beat it up. Now i gotta beat it up now, so i focus on myself, okay ? On my my mistakes. I know it’s just but being able to actually educate non-profits into the things that they need to realize before they even start soliciting our peace and won the big ones is that that tech provider world, especially web development, is in a massive state of flux. Right now, there are really two large competing schools of how to go about being a service provider, which there’s the traditional old school model of you. Give us the specs, we build this for you, and then it’s yours. Hand it over, enjoy it. Yeah, and then there’s mohr of the annual license fee model. There are one ofthese for things like design and development programming, that kind of stuff. But then there’s an ongoing relationship that provides training support. I like to call it attrition insurance because you’re going in insurance, attrition, insurance, you’re going to have people who are going to turn over, and you need whoever comes in to be able to talk to someone who has some kind of institutional knowledge about that online presence, at least and that’s really not even just a non-profit but in the tech sector, especially that’s been around for years now, it’s almost expected oh, and it’s still a new concept to non-profits and so even understanding when they start soliciting are of peace, they could get some very radically different ideas coming in, and if they’re not prepared for it, you might out of hand, just toss something else that could actually be your better solution. Do latto on doing a lot of nodding ? Yeah, yeah, i mean exactly what drew just said about non-profits are used to this in terms of websites, the subscription model type of thought where, you know, you might pay a maintenance fee, monthly or yearly two, your web developer but really, i think for this particular industry, that is the way to go because there is so much turnover in terms of staff and knowing that you have someone there at all times to, you know, sort of help out, you know, god forbid something breaks or, you know, maybe you just have a question that there is somebody there at all times that can really take care of that. This industry, maybe more than others, should be using that sort of dahna i’m surprised to hear that non-profits air not acquainted with this attrition problem, i mean, they have it in having a crime, i mean, certainly in fund-raising where i mostly you’re saying that they’re not factoring that into this process, exactly, exactly there not really thinking about how that relates to their web presence and also having, you know, a monthly maintenance contract or yearly can be very helpful, even just when you need a little thing fixed or changed usually non-profits will go out and you don’t try to find, you know, a one off kind of developer project or, you know, hyre a freelancer to do something and and once you have, you know, all of these different people that are going in there and touching your website at any one time, ultimately that’s sort of going to dilute the integrity of the website so it’s best to just be able to keep with one person who really knows it in it. Out now, i highlighted. Beautiful necklace pendant. I want to highlight drew’s vest, very dapper vest and pocket square. Now, i am not to be outdone. Pocket squares, but yeah, exactly. Undo that. Drew is the king of the waistcoat. He has a warrior he’s, a waistcoat warrior hashtag waistcoat warrior he’s got a waistcoat for every occasion, and he looks damn good in them. Thank you very much for your marriage. You know each other. You know, it’s outside, outside the professional realm way. Do we’ve been friends for a very long time. And actually, one of the first ways that we met was doing a session. You contacted me to a website session. But when c z was a marketing director at the palm beach opera, they became client of mine, and they’re still clients. Oh, and we worked together on a number of sessions and mostly in performing arts based conferences. But yeah, way. Have a good report. Okay, show’s. Awesome. I love that this is a great energy. Great five kickoff kick off our coverage of auntie. Easy. Okay, drew let’s, stay with you. Something else that sisi mentioned next in the sequence. Gathering the right information that belongs as a part of this or ft flush out out more that’s the perfect question to ask yeah, number question number eight is it took me a while, we’ll slow out of the gate. Oh, it’s, just a number eight it’s one the best ones, because that’s also one of most difficult, because when organizations look at their content, i mean, they look at the stuff that they’re familiar with and what they know. So the actual copy, the media co-branding elements and that’s something that they tend to do fine with but where we encounter groups, having the most trouble is when they have to actually get all that information from point a to point b, meaning that let’s say they have a system built on julia or even wordpress, which is what we use in its open source. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easy to extract the data depending on how that web site was originally built previously. And if in order to say what kind of data we’re talking about trying to get out, it could be anything from more complex information like customer data or event information there an event driven organization if they sell tickets. There’s all kinds of event. Meta, which are little bits of data, like the starting time, the location to find these terms. Because we have jargon. Jail on non-profit mirriam would hate to see you behind bars, but you live served time. You have. Not on this show. I don’t allow it. So you described it. You defined it quickly. Okay, so, yeah, little bits of data that right ? And so that they don’t know that that getting that from point a to point b isn’t a simple as doing, like a simple export. There’s no standardized format for something like a vent data. Even though google and apple have their own standards, it only covers a few bits of metal, so being able to move that might actually require a substantial amount of time and effort that they had no idea it was needed. But worse didn’t budget for, and that could sometimes be the most expensive element dahna project outside of something like developing an ap i connection to something like sales force or cr m or any kind of outside donor-centric connection between your data and some other outside latto yep, it’s the language that allows to different platforms to be able to talk to each other in the same language as opposed to having, you know, something in german trying to talk to someone in russian. Okay, now, how does it now ? I made you tigress thought your fault. How ? Does this all relate back to what belongs in our f and that’s ? Just it ? Those are the things that providers in my position usually don’t tell clients in advance because they well, do they even know i mean at the art of the stage ? Well, that’s just it most non-profits don’t they didn’t ask for that. But the provider doing replying to the r f p at that stage probably doesn’t even know that level of detail, do they ? They should, and they should be asking, and not every provider does that this goes into the heart of this stuff they don’t want you to know about the process is going to be iterated we’re not not just foisting an art of pee on a bunch of vendors, and then they return it within within this by the specified deadline. But there’s a there’s a back and forth there’s a community there. This conversation there should be questioning that’s a beautiful way to put it and that’s one of things that were going to be talking about is the r f in the traditional sense that we’re talking about way are is that the old school ? Throw out the laundry list of things that you want and get it back is not probably going to be in your best interest. We’re going to be talking about some alternative methods, which will be including project evaluations. We are talking about project evaluation, and a project evaluation is different than our pee. In that you will usually pay someone a small fee, a developer, aura potential provider to look at all of this stuff for you, and then be able to give you a legitimate fair estimate of what it cost will be. Okay, so that that’s sort of. Leading into your r f or is it in place of it could go in both one of the options is a migration where i’m sorry, ah, hybrid model where that can then let them build a detailed, accurate r f or they can use that as just the basis of being able to move forward after they’ve looked at a couple of groups to narrow down to a shortlist based on reputation and previous work. Ok, and this can only be good, really, for the non-profits because in this process, you get to know the developers who are responding to this r f p and, you know, that can help you choose what the right relationship might be, you know, rather than just saying, oh, well, these people look great, and there are f p submission looks great, but you don’t really know them. Yeah, all right, so we’re holding hands before we sleep together. Exactly. Get way. Get going. We’re going on a few dates before we sleep together. Okay, look on dating apps. A great wayto use that analogy. That’s. One of the things we have in the session that we’re talking about here now. Thank you. Is that if you wanted to go online and find someone to date and you just have a laundry list that’s called tinder ? If you actually want to find someone that you want to have a relationship with that’s that’s an entirely different story and shoot it might be in harmony, i would like to know the harmony, harmony, scientific that’s, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Profiles are more detailed, nothing no yeah, that i know from experience. I’ve heard. I’m happily married on dh, not on any any dating site. In fact, i’m happily married has nothing to do with other dating sites. That’s. True, i don’t know. I don’t see a ring, you know, you’re right, i don’t know. My wife has what she’s here, but we don’t wear rings right on. But, yes, i see your true oh, she’s on she’s, yes, okay, showing you just take that truth, okay ? So what was that ? Aggression ? Okay, all right, so so we’re dating, all right ? So how do we find the people who the potential vendors who could be valuable to us either for this project evaluation or for our f p how do we know where to send this thing ? We’re jumping around a bit, but listeners are accustomed to that that’s a good question, how do how do we know that’s actually really good question, and i know that, and i know that drew will have some thoughts, too, but if your friend on for non-profit that doesn’t really have a lot of experience in doing this kind of thing. I think the first thing to do is to reach out to colleagues for other organisms from other organizations who have recently been through a website, redesign or development project, or maybe you don’t even know them, but maybe it’s a non-profit or another organization that has a website that you like, reach out to them and see who did it see with their experience with and then also utilizing any sort of membership organizations or associations that you might be involved in convene helpful like a f p or a or p r s a and ten more any of those only, like number three any of those. And only after i prompted you. All right, let me sample warning would have been on my list. Trust me. Hyre where ? Seven it’s not there’s, no value. Nobody’s listening that yes, people listen. So all right, so i think that would be the first laurel referral to someone who did something you like or from among your or from among your professional network, including professional associations. Yeah. Putting. And i think putting it out there that you are looking for someone is really good as well. Even just on your social media on your linked in that hay, whether it’s personal or professional or both. Hey, we are looking to redo our website. Does anybody have any ? You know, recommendations, people you love people you worked with that you don’t love you no stairway from this kind of thing. Okay ? Do you have more ? That that’s a great way to go about it. I would say when you go the social media route or a public rout beep prepared for the onslaught. Yes, because there will be plenty of people who are in business development, we’re going to look for those sort of things reach out to you. The only thing i’ve really add to that is looking at other sites that you like as a starting point. You look at that that face is it pretty ? Do i like it ? Do i enjoy how it worked as faras the interaction and the user interface ? And if there’s, ah, website credit at the bottom, which not all sites do, but if there is, then start to reach out to those organizations. But most importantly, when you go to their websites, you want to try to find someone that has as much information about process as in the results because it’s the process that what we’ve been talking about here that really develops that relationship, that build a successful lives, you’re because you’re successful outcome ? Yeah, absolutely. Ok. Yes. You don’t want to just focus well said you want to focus on how great the site looks. It works. But was was it held to get here ? May not be worth it. It may not have been worth it. Is it a mistake to send out a dozen or of peas. I mean, is there an optimal like there ? Max, i don’t need. I don’t want to hear from fifteen vendors. I can’t r or just can’t process that much. Cc what’s. Your advice around how many descent ? I think that i don’t think that it’s a bad thing to get a lot back, i think in this kind of situation, because there aren’t there aren’t a ton, ton ton of developers that work with non-profits to start out with, you know, with some other types of businesses where you might get an onslaught of r f piece from web developers non-profits air a little bit lucky in that, you know, it’s going to be a relatively smaller number just to start out with, but i do think that it’s better to sort of see what your options are and that’s an important part of this process because what i find is a lot of non-profits when they’re doing a website project, they may be stuck, quote unquote stuck with a certain solution because they didn’t know what their other options were, and they were they were working with a developer aura developer was recommended to them that is saying, you know, this is the way that you need to do x, y and z and not that that’s a bad way, inherently, but maybe not the best way for that particular organization, but they just went with it because they didn’t know what there are other options were. So i’m more of the mind that the more sort of information that you have and it is it is a pretty good thing. Okay, so you don’t want to put our backs on it. Andi it’s likely to be a small number anywhere you’re saying, because right, and you’re going to sort of tear those things down. So once you get the first group of them, then you’re immediately going to be able to see, okay, yeah, these were not interested in so here’s, my smaller core group that we’re really going to look at, you know, and then from there, okay. We still have a few minutes left together, drew let’s talk about something that’s related to this development versus legacy costs. How does that relate to this sort of process and what listeners need to know about development versus legacy cost everything they don’t know, which is everything, and it is the biggest issue moving forward for non-profits is if you’re a non-profit like a performing arts organization, they already have a really good idea of what legacy cost is with labour expenses because their labor intensive organizations there’s no way to avoid that. Websites and technology platforms in general are starting to become mohr like that there’s, a minimum legacy threshold, cost wise from an expensive perspective that is increasingly going up because of how much organizations are relying on those platforms, but they don’t traditionally look att them from that perspective because of that one off here’s your website. Now i’m gone. We’re talking about the ongoing costs of maintaining the site exactly, but it’s not just maintaining the site, is maintaining that the ap i connective ity all the software in the scripts that make things do what they do change at haste, that is far more. Rapid than it used to be that’s a great example. Sites are goingto break connections, yes, and what other things are legacy costs that the last thing, the biggest one the next one is going to be with regard to how responsive design functions and responsive design is when you see a website on a desktop, as opposed to on a smartphone and everything shifts around so it looks better on a smartphone that works better. The underlying technology that makes all that work is also in a hyper state of developed and that’s, constantly changing. So it’s and it’s constantly changing to keep up with changes and things like iphones, they come out with new specs and new dimensions, and thing’s called media query thresholds change. So all the rules that go into how stuff shifts around has to change. And if your website or your online platform is a couple of years old, it may already be behind the times and not working well on those devices, even though you thought it originally was designed to do that. Now, listener’s, you’re gonna want to know that i did hear drew say the media query threshold we don’t have enough time to flush that out. So i’m gonna get you gonna get passed, it’s one of fury’s, everything but i’m letting this one go, but i did notice do not do not think that i didn’t catch it, okay ? And then sisi, why don’t you explain the different mean, what ? Drew was just describing those legacy costs and development costs, which i think is pretty commonly understood, but that’s just right, right ? So your development costs that’s really going to be, you know, the money that you’re putting out to make the site right in that first project to actually create what you’re trying to dio and it’s, i love that we’re talking about this because from an organizational perspective, it’s really important to keep a line item in there somewhere and some money in it for those legacy costs, you know, because a lot of times we’re just looking at it and say, okay, well, you know, it’s going to cost x amount of dollars to build the site and then that’s it or, you know, we’re given, you know, we get a grant for it or were given money from a donor to build the site or something like that and it’s looked at as just sort of a one off. You’ve got to think about keeping money in a line item for these ongoing kinds of things and also the developer that you’re working with. Khun give you a good sense of how much money that might end up being, depending on the functionality of your sight, because that’s really going to vary from site to site and from organization to organization. Okay, i should got they should another should from drew. All right, we gotta leave it there. This is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. I’ve been talking to drew mcmanus principle of venture industries online and cc dat baizman digital marketing manager at form. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc and this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with accounting or your nine ninety thinking about a change of accountants ? Time to get a fresh opinion. Check out witness. Cps dot com start there. Then talk, you know. The partner to talk to you, eat each tomb. He’s been on the show, he’s a good guy. I trust him. He’ll be honest about whether they can help you. Regular cpas. Dot com. Now time for tony’s, take two. I do a lot of ah long distance driving about twelve hundred miles every month, or or every six weeks on dh. I’ve got a couple things. Ah, couple things on my mind about that, that i’ve, that i’ve seen that ah, bother me. So the video talks about three of them. I was for here. I feel like the one i wanna talk about is getting gas. The gas lanes in ah, in a gas station are for getting gas and for cleaning your windshields on when you’re cleaning your windshield, that doesn’t mean wash your car with the squeegee that means clean the winter came the glass certainly get your glass nice and clean. Fill up the gas. Take your time doing all those things don’t trip don’t spill any gas, you know, dribbles over anything, nothing like that, but when you’re done, get out of the gas lane and park that car. Don’t be the person sitting still in the gas lane while you’re going to get iced tea. There’s a couple more rants along with that one on the video at tony martignetti dot com now time for gene gene the law machine you know who i’m talking about ? Of course. Well, who else would it be ? Jean takagi, the managing partner of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits the wildly popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he’s, the american bar association’s. Twenty sixteen outstanding. Non-profit lawyer he’s jean takagi he’s at g tak. Welcome back, jean. Thanks, tony. How are you ? I’m doing very well. How are you this afternoon ? I’m doing very well, feelingood out there. Good. Good. I’m glad. Um, i’m overdue for a visit. I need to i need to come see you on the west coast. The ads actually the perfect time that we’ve got some nice weather. It’s a little cooler earlier this summer. But we’re headed out towards cem. Cem a nice weather at the end of september and october. September, october. There are good months. You’re right. I know, i know. I’ve heard that from others. I’ll get there because it was, like twenty. I think twenty fourteen may have been the last time was that when we met, i think it was twenty fourteen the time we met, i think quite awhile. Yeah. Yeah. Uh oh. But then i had another trip, and then you were. I think you weren’t available. Yeah. You blew me off my last trip. I think that was two years ago. Twenty. Um, okay, so we’re talking about donorsearch vice funds. You have some interesting stats about how popular they are that they’ve grown oh, since twenty twelve, give us give us just some basic numbers so we know why we should be paying attention to these things. Sure. And i think some of your listeners may know that that we have to start paying attention to donorsearch buy-in funds and and i’ll i’ll use the lingo dafs if that don’t get me into jargon, no that’s that’s approved. Yeah, okay, so dafs sir, like the fastest growing recipients of charitable giving now in the in the u s so donations of increased from just under fourteen billion in two thousand twelve two. Twenty three billion in two thousand sixteen. And meanwhile, sort of in two thousand sixteen, we’ve seen the top. I think six, uh, charities or six recipients of charitable giving in the country were dafs so, you know, the biggest one being fidelity charitable out doing united way and and american red cross and everyone else. So six out of the top ten recipients of charitable giving were dashed. Something to pay attention, tio sure on also the interesting that the growth rate so you cited uh, fourteen billion in twenty twelve to twenty three. Billion. Twenty, sixteen that’s. Two thirds growth, sixty six percent over five years, and individual giving over that was five years grew by only fifteen percent. Yeah, and you’ll see a lot of reports now saying, suggesting that they’re fewer and fewer donors e-giving teo to public charity, that air doing direct service work. Now, the big donors are still contributing, but fewer numbers of smaller donors, and part of that because of the tax incentive that are changing. But, you know, that’s, huge growth in the donor by fun, you know, in light of those numbers of lessening donors, the growth of donor advice on sixty six percent over five years. Any investment manager would love that. Yeah, no kidding. Shoretz naturally. My my portfolio would certainly love that. My portfolio buy-in buy high sell low. That seems to be my mantra if you look at my portfolio over the lifetime of my portfolio, um, so you and there are a couple of reasons why these air so attractive to individuals ? You know, you get that immediate tax deduction first ? Yeah. I mean, it works great. From the donor’s perspective from, you know, from the donor, you make a contribution. You khun taken immediate charitable contribution deduction, but you get to practically kind of control that gift on and decide who you want to ultimately give it out to in future years, even if it’s going to be two years later, five years later, ten years later, twenty years later, you can sort of hold it in that fund. Now, legally speaking, you make that gift immediately, and you get the deduction. Because your gift is complete. You have given it to a charity in the in the year you made that gift. But practically speaking, that charity that’s, the dafs sponsoring organization, that donor by sun sponsoring organization, which typically is associate it either with a financial services company like fidelity. Charitable that’s the biggest, you know, charity that that receives gibson in the world or hyre you can give it to a community foundation that’s, the other big sponsoring organization of bath and so legally they have control of the money. But practically speaking, they’re probably going to listen to where you want to make the donations to so long that it’s illegal distribution later, so long as you’re going to make the grant toe another public charity, even if it’s you know your intention to give it twenty years later, that’s okay ? Yeah, the donor’s make what’s called a recommendation to the to the charity fundez holding their donor advised funds and ninety nine times out of one hundred. The recommendation is approved. I think basically, they’re just looking to make sure it is a bona fide five o one c three charity that’s being recommended. And then the fund hyre approves that recommendation and makes a gift from from its fund to do that to that five. Twenty three ? Yeah, i think that’s right, tony. So, you know from from the sponsoring organizations by then they might have a little bit more in terms of little legal obstacle. Teo to live up to but from from the perspective of the donor, a lot of them feel like it’s still their money, they still get to control where they’re going to make a grant to even after they’ve taken the charitable contribution deduction, right ? And it’s, you know, apart from sort of getting an immediate charitable contribution deduction, it also allows him to do other things like it allows them to give annually i’m sorry it allows them to bundle up their donation, so maybe they give to a charity to the dafs sponsoring organization like once every five years, and they do that because the incentives for getting a charitable tax deduction have drop because, you know, i don’t want to get too technical, but the rise of the standard deduction that took effect earlier this year and we talked about that that already means only five to ten percent of taxpayers actually get a charitable contribution deduction anymore for making a gift, because the standard deduction is higher than their itemize, but by bundling there donations and say, bundling them up. So instead of making a five thousand dollar gift every year and not being able to use that to get a deduction, they can decide to make a twenty five thousand dollar gift over five years, and then that twenty five thousand dollars now, combined with their other itemized deductions, is big enough to get the value that deduction so they can use the dafs to give every five years. But the charity that they want to be the beneficiary of the fund could receive money from the dafs on an annual basis after they do that, so to the charities that looks like the donor is giving to them every year once that funded the death. So another another useful way that that an individual can use the donor advised funds that’s created by the new tax laws understand, right ? You gross it up to get the get the hyre deduction compared to the standard, and then you can give it out, uh, slowly over time, all right, but make it make it the gift huge big enough to take advantage of the larger deduction at one time or maybe a couple times over several years, exactly in the charity might like that, too, if they’re like saying, you know, we actually don’t need your annual contribution because we’re actually saving up to buy a building or to create this brand new project. So if a year five you give us the larger gift, we would really appreciate that, so it can work for everyone involved as well. Okay, we’re going to take our first break, but when we come back, we’re going to talk about this feature of being able to latto it’s, make your gifts directly to the to the charities over over lots of time and the constant nation that that causes tell us for pete’s sake. Oh my goodness! Think of the companies you can refer and start asking them. You’ve heard the charity testimonials. You’ve heard the company testimonials, it’s time to claim your own long stream of passive revenue from tell us fifty percent of the card processing fees that tell us gets from the companies you refer. Go to you fifty percent month after month after month. That’s your long stream of passive revenue. Start with the video at tony dot m a slash tony tell us now, let’s, go back to jean takagi. Okay, uh, sometimes i don’t remember where i am. But this time i do. So i made because i said it, okay, so this feature that you can give over time over many, many, many years causes consternation in the non-profit community. Do i have that right ? Yeah, you’re right. So what ? You know what ? If the donor is e-giving annually to their donors buy-in spun and saying to the charity, you know, well, i’ll give to you at the end of five years at the end of ten years from my donor advised funds, but, you know, in five or ten years that donor, right have other priorities, and so that charity that used to get the annual gifts from that donor might not be on that list anymore, and so they can’t really think about that in their budget, so it does create some concern by charity. Yeah. Now, in that case, i mean, if i were advising them, i would get that pledge in a written document and the legal enforceability of that, you know, we can we can write us that it’s got some enforceability weaken. We’re relying on your promise, we’re going to take some administrative actions. Buy-in reliance, you know, maybe there’s a small consideration, maybe there’s a small dahna yeah, so, you know, we can we can we could make that legally enforceable in a lot of states, if not all the states, yeah, i think that’s true, tony, but then you have to think about whether even if you win the battle with the one donor-centric it in court, what that does in terms of the long term and your relationship with every other donors who now knows you sue donors when i don’t clean get yeah, yeah, i mean, you got a definitely are you ? Yeah, i know you’re right. This is an interesting conversation because planned e-giving i’ve dealt with this and way we deal with it as gifts come, and i’ve dealt with the aftermath of it after afterwards, i’ve never had a client that that maybe i shouldn’t reveal this. I don’t know clients non-profits are very reluctant to sue their donors. They you rather work something out. Andi it’s true, i haven’t had a client that well, first of all, i haven’t had that many clients we have to enforce we had where we had to force agreements against, uh, right against the donors and that’s, very rare that you have. To hold this document up that they signed years earlier and remind them of the enforceability of it on ben, you know, charities are reluctant to do it and have to be, i don’t have to be a scenario where there’s a lot of money at stake and it’s a pretty clear case because you’re right, the pr is very bad, and, you know, it may never even make the popular press, but just in donorsearch coll’s within that individual organization, you know, things get around, especially if it is a large gift from a prominent donor. Back-up yeah, and especially that donors still alive tony versus in a plan gift where you might be contesting it against airs or for other recipients of that. But when the donor is still alive and saying, i don’t like your charity as much as i used to, i still like you a little bit, but i don’t want to give you my full gift that i thought i wanted to give to you that’s a tough i got a raise, so there is a practical aspect too the enforceability of these agreements that i’m saying can be made legally enforceable, but but the enforceability and itself sometimes is enough of a persuasive factor to a donor that, you know, i think they keep up their commitment when, when they think they might not have otherwise might never go to court. Yeah, but the donor might see the seriousness of the donation and know that he would hurt the charity he or she would hurt the charity if they didn’t go through with that pledge because maybe relied on it to partially constructed building, and you need the full funds to finish construction. Otherwise you can’t do it, and you’ve wasted a lot of money and may be created some lawsuits against you for not being able to do it. So the donors, you know, relying on that donor’s money to your detriment or twenty to your detriment is is the basis for a lawsuit, and that would hopefully be convincing to a donor, even without the lawsuit part that you relied on on their promised teo, meet their place. I like heidtke idea. Yeah. Okay. Um but the bigger issue so let’s take it away from an individual charity. The bigger issue is that there’s. A lot of money parked in dahna. Advice, funds and we really don’t know how much and the what bothers congress and a lot of people in the charity community is that this money is parked there and it’s not getting to the five oh one see threes that it’s that it was that the donor earned a charitable deduction for giving to you it could sit indefinitely literally, right ? Yeah, so under tax laws, it could sit there indefinitely. So the donor advice fun sponsoring organization is not legally compelled to make any distributions at all. If the donor says nothing about it for ten years, twenty years than the sponsoring organization doesn’t have to do it. Although some of started to say, you know what ? We’ll have an internal policy that says, if you don’t, if you’re completely inactive your fund, we will start to make distributions based on what information we have of where you want it to go, so they’re trying to do some self regulation there, but there are no external laws right now that required donorsearch funds, teo, make any distributions at all. Yeah, well, i suspect they see a lot of a lot of the the the concerns, especially from the isat, the senate finance committee, charles grassley, chuck grassley is chair of is that senate finance ? Yeah, right, well, the senate finance committee might be concerned with that asshole, but they’re really the argument is going on with academics and professionals and big organizations, including community foundations and these big financial institutions all over the place. And you’re seeing a lot of books on the non-profits sector now sort of criticizing no philantech be including through donorsearch buy-in funds and the controls that these donors have over large amounts of money even after they’ve taken the deduction. Interesting, interesting discussions out there now now it za parallel to me, you know it’s, it’s, it’s similar to a lot of the planned gift’s a similar principle or policy around a lot of the planned gif ts so take i’m thinking like the charitable remainder trusts or charitable gift annuities where basically ah, person let’s use the trust because that’s not that’s, not charity specific. So let’s use that example. Someone creates a charitable ranger trust. They leave the option. Teo name some charitable beneficiaries a cz remainder beneficiaries which means at the death of the donor what’s left, goes to these charities and in the during the life of the donor or donors, sometimes a lot of times, it’s a couple there getting income for their getting income. So getting income for life when they die, what remains goes to charities, and they reserve the right to change your those charities might be now they get an immediate income tax deduction for that. When they create that in the year that they create that charitable remainder trust. So i see a similar policy. No it’s it’s. An immediate deduction for a long term gift to charity. Although there is some guarantee because the difference is that the donors are going to die and when they die, the people getting that people died getting the income die, there will definitely be a gift to charity. So there’s there’s that right there is that limiting factor. But you could see the policy similarity, right ? Yeah. That’s. Definitely some similarities. But i think that the donor advised funds are more concerning, particularly because when you do a charitable remainder trust, for example, your deduction is going to be the value of the gift that ultimately is left over for the charity using you. Know, like actuarial tables. Yeah, that present value there going ? Yeah. So what is it going to be worth ? The likely could based on average, like bands and stuff. What will the charity likely get ? That’s what you can deduct the donor advised funds, especially if you give gifts of like real estate or privately, closely held stock, you get to not pay any capital gains on it. If you’re a donor on, then you get a deduction of the fair market value, which is big because if you gave it to a private foundation, if you formed a private foundation, you don’t get that gift a fair market value, that deduction of fair market value essentially get the deduction of cost. So being able to sell something that, you know, wildly appreciated in value and getting the fair market value deduction and not having to pay any capital gains on it and then still having the practical control of where to ultimately spend that money. Um, you can see how that might be even more attractive. A donation vehicle tow an individual donor, but why ? At the same time they’re concerned some from from congress and from from others. Who think that they are, you know, advocates for the nonprofit sector of saying is really going to be put to good use for charitable use, or is it going to sit in these funds, particularly in funds that are run by some of the financial institutions where their continued to get, you know, investment season stuff that that air being generated because they’re continually being invested ? You know what charitable good are those funds doing ? You know, professionally, you know, if they’re if they’re held by fidelity and being managed and no promise of went to distribute. All right, hold that let’s, take our last break hoexter give, you’ll get more revenue because they make e-giving simple if your donor’s consent a text that can make a donation not only simple, affordable and secure ceo chadband oid very smart guy, he set up a smart company. You want to get the info, which you should, you should want to get the info text, npr. Two, four, four, four nine nine nine and you will ah, not only get info, but also be able to claim a special listener offer. We’ve got several more minutes left for fund-raising no, not fund-raising dahna advice funds where’s, my where’s, my lousy intern. I wish i had one. We’re not talking about fund-raising that was a big mistake. Sorry, jean. We’re talking about dahna advice funds. I need an intern. Esso, i have someone to blame for this poor copy. All right ? Yeah. Yeah. The fair market value. Yes. The donor donor advised funds gives a fair market value. You made several points, but the one that hit me the most because i do plan giving is dahna advice fund to get a fair market value charitable deduction immediately plan give to get a present value deduction based on your life expectancy. So it’s going to be less. And if you hold the money in your donor’s vice fund for twenty years, it’s, in fact worth less, then it was in the year you put it in. But you’ve got a face value fair market value deduction, didn’t you ? Well, actually, you know what ? What you holding to donorsearch buy-in fundez might appreciate wildly. So if you put a, you know, a million dollars investment or even a ten thousand dollar investment into a donor advice fund of apple stock, you know when it was nothing, and you held it for ten years, and all of a sudden you’re sitting on, you know, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars and nobody take capital gains tax for that, right ? But you are, you know, the donor advisor or the donor of one hundred billion dollars fund, you know, that’s held by financial institutions, affiliated charity sponsoring dafs sponsoring organizations. And, you know, you get all sorts of benefits for, you know, being, you know, the donor to donorsearch by son. You know, you get to go to the fancy cocktail parties and gala charity gallas and people swooning all over you because, you know, you can make huge distribution to the to the folks if it was your own money, but not your own money anymore. Yeah, well, it’s, not yours, right ? It’s yours to decide what to do with, but it doesn’t belong to you. The recommendation of where it should go belongs to you. Now, of course, on the other side of that, you could have invested in. Annoy ll start. I’m trying something the stock that crashed terribly, but you might have invested in something that depreciated on dh there’s going to be a lot less left for charity because you didn’t invest well, yet you got you got a deduction for what you put into the fund initially. So in that case, the charities really do lose the public loses out because a lot less money is going to go to charity. Then we gave you a deduction for sure that’s true as well, and i don’t mean teo be sort of a nay sayer of the donor advised funds because there’s a lot of good things that they do and, you know, they’ve been around for, like over eighty years, really, with community foundations and, you know, the original intent was sort of to collaborate. Have donors collaborate with the advice of the community foundation about how they could sort of use their money’s on dh use their donations together to fund some of the most important things to benefit that community. And, you know, that aspect of donor advised funds is, i think, a wonderful thing and the, you know, a lot of critics. Who are arguing against the critics of the donor advised funds so the ones who are the pro donorsearch buys fundez woobox are saying, you know, a lot of this money that is going into donordigital fun would otherwise not go into charitable goods anyway, they might they might never make the charitable sector. S so it’s not like saying that, you know, people are e-giving too don’t advise funds, and it never gets charity that way that, you know, the counter argument is some of those funds would never get to charity unless they went through donorsearch buy-in funds. And by the way, our distribution rate is much higher than private foundation grade, so even if the donor gave it to, you know, created their own private foundation, then they’re just required to invest or grant out essentially five percent of their investment assets per year and don’t advice funds are granting out, on average, somewhere about twenty percent of their assets for years, so we don’t even have a problem here. Why do you want to create rules to limit what we’re doing but there’s a counter to that as well ? That says well, that twenty percent includes donorsearch vice funds e-giving toe, other donor advised funds and that’s like when you want to shift your donors fund from fidelity to vanguard xero or to the silicon valley community foundation or did it new york community foundation ? You’re just moving money around from one financial talkto another one charity to another, but nobody’s actually putting it to use teo, do good for the community that the other arguments and counter arguments the other problem with that look atyou doing both sides. The other problem with those measures of distribution are they could be skewed by very large gif ts that come from one or two funds while lots of small funds aren’t making any any distributions jean, we have to leave here. Maybe we should have planned this for a whole hour. But we hyre is this your lackluster host ? He’s ? Jean takagi, managing attorney of neo non-profit exempt organizations law group he’s, our legal contributor just following for god’s sake non-profit latto blood dot com and at g tak thank you very much, gene. Great talking to you next week it’s website day https and getting more gift from your sight if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p weinger cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com, by tell us. Credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Creative producer is claire meyer, huh ? Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez. Marc stein is our web guy. How much mark silverman is our web guy, and the music is by scott stein. She we will be next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great better than me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Nothing. You could. Hi, are you interested in blockchain technologies and crypto currencies ? Then tune in here on talk radio. Got n y c with me, david every friday, eleven a, m twelve p, m eastern time. As we answer your questions and interview, great guests live on internet radio on building the blockchain where you can catch the blockchain revolution. Oppcoll you’re listening to the talking alternative net, are you stuck in a rut ? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down ? Hi, i’m nor in sumpter, potentially ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 14, 2018: Getting to Know Community Foundations

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David Rosado & Kaberi Banerjee Murthy: Getting to Know Community Foundations
They’re closer to your work than private foundations. What else distinguishes CFs and what are they talking about? How can you build a relationship with yours and tap into donor advised funds? On the second show in Foundation Center Month on Nonprofit Radio, our guests are David Rosado from Foundation Center and Kaberi Banerjee Murthy with Brooklyn Community Foundation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I am your aptly named host and we are back again live from the foundation center in new york city or second show foundation center month on non-profit radio. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into cairo chemist, asia if you handed me the idea that you missed today’s show getting to know community foundation, they’re closer to the work in the community than private foundations are what else distinguishes community foundations and what are they talking about ? What’s trending ? How can you build a relationship with yours and tap into donorsearch vise funds on the second show in foundation center month on non-profit radio, our guests are david rose otto from the foundation center and cadbury banerjee murthy with brooklyn community foundation. We’ll take questions from our audience is we have our studio audience, thanks very much for all being here, and we have lifestream audience on youtube as well. Glad you’re with us. You two were gonna get your questions all so you could put them in the comments. I’ve got giveaways later, so keep your phones handy. And that includes our youtube, our livestream audience. You’re included in the giveaways. Tony’s tech, too, its foundation center month. I’ll say more about that. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna may slash pursuing when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Witness piela dot com bye, tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna em, a slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr. Two, four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Excited to welcome our second panel, tio not probably a month at the foundation centre. Welcome, good to be here, be here, barry, seated next to me, could bury banerjee murthy is vice president of programs at the brooklyn community foundation leads there for million dollars grantmaking programs and advocacy work around racial justice. The focus of our work is youth of color, immigrant rights and criminal justice. She has more than fifteen years of philanthropic leadership at local, regional and national foundations, including crown family found philanthropies in chicago, pick our foundation in new york and james trust and cox trust in boston. The foundation is at b, c f and why dot or ge on dh kayal wyatt foundation david rose otto is the member services manager for cf insight that’s, a service of foundation center focused on community foundation research and benchmarking. He oversees operations, including its data architecture, and responds to requests for support and knowledge from member and nonmember visitors to see if insights at the foundation center he’s worked on all aspects of data acquisition and grants. Indexing for community foundation york is that cf insights dot org’s and at cf insight he’s at david rosano, eighty four. Very david again. Provoc. Uh, david let’s, start with you. I know it is. Am i overstating it ? If i see you, the nation’s expert on foundations, you have a ton of data on immunity foundations. Yeah, you could say i’m among them, if you want. Sure. Uh, small in selecting. Yeah, right. It’s ah, yeah. Resting finally group yet i’m sure you know, we if i could talk a little bit about cf insights in general, so see, if incites the cf ncf inside stands for community found asian, as you might imagine. And we do maintain a database, primarily financial and operational data. Uh, that self reported by the field. Tow us. And you know, one question that we ask and it’s kind of, you know, it’s a tag line, but it’s also a question that we ask when that is, you know what ? If each community foundation could know what all community foundations collectively now and so that’s what ? The databases, therefore it serves a dual purpose. You could say that it is that so one of the main purpose is that it provides. It helps us provide a snapshot of what’s happening. In the community foundation field. How it’s growing. You know what ? Some of the key differences between community foundations of different sizes and how they operate and how they’re at how they’re built space, how many community foundations are you collect eso annually ? We collect data on around a third of the fields about two hundred seventy five community foundations do the survey that we do. And we we do capture the activity of all the, you know, all the largest in the country, but we do have a mix of a lot of smaller ones, and they want it once that kind of well, what you doing with all this ? Yeah. So the snapshot is available at, uh, website called. Uh, columbus survey results dashboard. It could talk a little bit more about the survey that we do, but it’s columbus survey that cf inside start organ and that’s not shot. You’re sharing this with databases. So this is where the raw data this is, where they can access some of the raw data. But this is where they get a snapshot. There’s analysis. There. There are a lot of graphs and visual ization narrative about states lower, so columbus. Survey that see if insides dahna columbus survey. Cf. Insights. Dot org’s. Cats, right ? Yeah. And the reason it’s called the columbus survey is because there was actually started by the columbus foundation thirty years ago. Yeah, so we do provide that snapshot. But it also is a way for our member community foundations, of which we have about one hundred thirty, of them, who consign onto the database and perform benchmarking against each other in a variety of different ways. So they can query that data. Look for other community foundations that are roughly their assets size or up their age. Or have a similar staffing makeup. Teo. Kind of compare their performance against us. But, you know, see if insights is not just that database. We do also do a lot of research on trends happening in the field. So where, uh, you know, i’m constantly going to conferences around the country that our community foundation focus. And, you know, i got to hear a lot of conversations that are happening. And they usually are the seeds. For some of the research that we do around, you get the frequent traveler points. When you’re fine, you get some of those things that it’s part of the report. So so members so communication members can ask questions about funding trends ? What do you think ? Maybe underfunded ? What they’re what they’re piers air doing ? Yeah, yes. So they can ask questions about what their peers they’re doing it’s really more based on the operating model of the community foundation, less so than specific issue areas that their funding. So, you know, if there’s a, uh, you know, they might want to compare themselves to other community foundations that are similarly focused on dahna advice funds as they are, i’m just kind of get at, you know, you know, what is their growth rate over time to see whether or not they might be keeping pace or something like that ? But it does go beyond that ? Because there we do collect data on, you know, the revenue streams that are collected by community foundations as well to get at some of the operational difference. What are some of the ministry ? So a lot of it is going to be administrative fees that are assessed on funds. So, you know, if i find holder, uh, you know, contributes to a fine. They do get assessed a fee on that. And so the community foundation collects that. Some of them are transaction based. Some of them are, you know, it could be investment income. So some of these funds are permanent funds that are set up and invested in various ways. Yeah, source of revenue. It gets interesting. Common sources of revenue. Yeah, i mean there’s, a really great there’s, really the main ones. Yeah, dahna piece is gonna be the main driver, it’s, usually book of what the we’ll come back. Wait trends check. Yeah. You know what you’re saying ? Acquaint us, not you, not the long version of brooklyn community foundation, your endowment fund, your donor advised funds program. Absolutely so at brooklyn community foundation, where the burroughs foundation, the burroughs foundation in brooklyn. Um, we started about nine years ago, so in two thousand nine, we were a conversion foundation from a bank, so we do have an endowment. So we’re a little unusual from the trends that i think are being talked about in terms of how many assets help what are assets are and how they’re divided amongst the different ways of giving the big piece of it for us. As the community foundation is about five years ago, when we wanted to be able to really think about how we engaged with our community, what we did is we instead of having the board sort of closed doors and decide for themselves what they wanted to be doing, we actually went with a thousand conversations with people in brooklyn toe ask our community what they wanted from their community foundation. And so is i think we think here about like, how community foundations are different. I think one of the things that we’ve been really trying to do is make sure that we’re accountable to the community that we serve, and that is the community of brooklyn. So both in terms of the donations being given to the foundation, as well as the grants that were giving to the community and being able to really change the hierarchies and the ways in which believed to be usually shows up. So we do about half of our staff, a community fund grantmaking via staff lead grantmaking and half via constituent lead grantmaking so that’s being ableto bring communities into the decision making process and have them actually make the recommendations to the board on how the foundation’s allocations get shared with the community divers is broken. Super diver, yeah. Ee yeah, i mean, i okay, so now my communications person is going to kill me because i don’t know these facts at my fingertips, but it is seventy percent immigrant and of color, and so if we think about, like, the overall diversity of brooklyn, very diverse and because we think about the size of brooklyn, brooklyn was a city unto itself, it would. Be the fourth largest city in the united states. So even though it is a no one of five boroughs of new york and it sort of gets bed into the new york numbers, brooklyn unto itself is a very diverse and be very large. Um, and so as we think about the work, and despite that, only four percent of philanthropic dollars from the new york philanthropic scene actually get into brooklyn serving brooklyn non-profits four percent. And so as a community foundation, one of the other pieces that were really committed, teo is shining a light on all of the amazing work that’s happening in brooklyn because we have two, three thousand non-profits that are doing an exceptional work in brooklyn, and we’re also wanting to make sure that we’re able to support the organizations that maybe smaller we have. We have an accelerator project, a program for the non-profits that includes capacity building, technical assistance, we cede incubators, we actually have them within our foundation space, and we built our space to be able to hold them. Um, and we have a newsletter that goes out not just to our grantees, but to non-profits that air doing. Any type of well, they could go out to anyone, but most likely most important, for those who are doing any type of working in the burrow to be able to know of opportunities that they can take advantage of. So all of those things are the ways in which we want to be ableto being de partnership with the non-profits that we served with in brooklyn and also make sure that other people are learning about that. So both other foundations, individual donors, you know, be able to connect a partner organizations with one another, ensuring that were really tryingto think around the grantmaking as one tool in our tool kit, but knowing that there are a whole host of tools that were able to use you want to talk about connect attention grantees with donors ? Yes, how how are non-profit audience started in-kind start that relationship, we’ll get to that great e-giving what ? How how common is is all this work computer in terms of commitee traditions role in its community, like as an incubator connecting grantees toe donors, etcetera ? We’re seeing it. General roll kayman yeah, you know, it’s it’s funny, uh, you ask that because one of the kind of basic tenets that you might hear in the fields when you speak to folks that are working in a community foundation is that if you’ve seen one community foundation, you’ve seen one community foundation, which is just not true, and that’s, where a lot of our work comes from is that we’re able to go and actually compare some of the work of some community foundations across the country and makes a generalization. So we waken try our best. Yeah, but, yeah, you know, in terms of some of the work that brooklyn community foundations of brooklyn community foundation is doing, you are seeing a bit of a shift across the field from a lot of community foundations that are interested in moving from, you know, kind of a financial asset manager to more of an active player within their community, so they do that in very different ways, you know, it could be, you know, self operated initiatives that they run t either try to affect impact and, you know, graduation rates are work first development, some issues on their own initiatives on the right has two fund-raising self-funding yet or eggs that are doing the work doing some of the work on their own. Yeah, brooklyn. Yeah, so we have a couple different things that we’re doing. We have the restore its restorative justice project where we’re partnering with four organizations that are working buy-in for brooklyn schools to be able to move from punitive practice to restorative practice. And then we also have an evaluator who’s being able to take a look at what we’re learning and be able to share that with the field so that’s very different than sort of like the request for proposals. Hello, i process so responsive. I got to believe that there are non-profit it’s a book on that could have done that work themselves with your with your funny why ? Why not ? Why take the initiative on yourself to do it ? So this is one of the things that we learned from our brooklyn insights process, right ? Is that people were worried about young people and around over criminalization and around schools. And so that was sort of a way for us to think around how being ableto look a restorative justice within the school’s, be able to reduce suspensions, reduce disciplinary rates, keeps students in the schools be able to break the school to prison pipeline and be able to actually experiment right like that’s, one of the things that philanthropy is able to dio we don’t necessarily public dollars where you have to prove that everything will work, and i think there needs to be a little bit of risk and philantech be to ensure that we’re utilizing our dollars to their highest end goal on dso what we wanted to do was be able to experiment to see what restorative practices would work and what you know and have sort of like for many experiments running side by side, they’re absolutely not in competition with one another, but we have a cohort that comes together, they ableto support one another, strategize with one another and then and support one another. You could be more nimble. You’re doing the work yourself exactly, she’s going through four or more organs issue and i think the yes, they feel like they’re competing, right, right ? Right. And i think the other piece of it for us is, you know, i talk about our our cycle of engagement or a theory of change, which is that our grantmaking allows us to learn from the community and with that feeds into is advocacy. So part of the work that we’re doing within the restorative justice project is also being able to advocate on behalf of policy change. So we were able to have city council folks come do a circle with our young people have an intergenerational circle in one of our schools, we had a number of folks from different boroughs come with some of their team staff members from their teams learn about the restorative justice project and the impact that it’s happening within the schools and then on actually, we were able to to have that site visit the week before the city council was meeting to think about what, what the repercussions were of a stabbing incident that happened in the bronx, and one of the one of the outcomes of that was that when the city council allocated resource is, they made eight million dollars allocation, all too restorative practice and not into more like metal detectors for the school’s, right ? So we’re thinking not just about the schools and the youth and the teachers and the administrators that will be that will benefit. From the program in their school, but also what’s the hyre and goal of being able to think around the evaluation of the learnings that could impact the field and how that can move to systems level change and being able to get re sources from the public sector, which will always dwarf philanthropic dollars, to be able to move those dollars into things that we can learn there. How common is this ? The community advocacy ? Yeah, it’s growing a bit, um, you know, it depends on the community foundation, of course, and it depends on what the needs of the community are, and i, you know, i think this is actually a pretty powerful example of what the frenchie it’s, a community foundation from others is that they’re able to, you know, to learn from the communities in which they’re embedded, you know, they’re they’ve been there for a while, they, you know, they have board members that are representatives of the community, and so, you know, with their donors that they’re learning about what the needs are actually being bullet. But where is it that private foundations aren’t as connected ? I mean, private foundations could have boardmember zoho are among the community i’m trying to understand the i guess, just how they’ve evolved different why is it that private foundations aren’t as close to there ? Askanase foundation that’s a good question and i’m you know, i i maybe khun present a theory i don’t know if i give you a really good answer to that down with two or three of you, so well, i mean, yeah, i would just say that maybe a private foundation would be a little bit more single issue maybe, you know, it depends on the foundation, of course, but, you know, there might be specific issues that they’re that they’re set up to respond to somewhere as a community foundation is more broad based in terms of their there of their focus and all social community is community now focus, ok, yeah, so it’s, not like they’re focused necessarily on one or two things, but they’re focused on every need of the community which also evolves as the community of walls, and i think that that’s one of the main advantage is that of a community foundation is that they’re they’re embedded there, and they get so learned over and reacted what’s. More that get rolling, yes, a role in the community. So i mentioned the initiatives, but, you know, there there you’re seeing a little bit more activity in the advocacy space. Uh, but there also are a lot of community foundations that may play a more passive role as well, so they’re not necessarily going out and advocating for specific policy change, but they might bring together local leaders who are experts in a specific issue and host a round table or something like that. So i think that that’s, one of the ways in which a community foundation is making their presence known among, you know, not just the constituents in the community but also potential donors as well, who see that these are experts that these are the ones you know, these are the guys who might know who the main players are on a specific issue, and so some dollars might be hyre it might be better, you know, uh, better directed it if it went in that direction, and then they could work with the community foundation donor can to determine who the best you know, who the most equipped organizations are to solve a specific issue. I’d love to hear from our one hundred plus audience members. If you want to contribute, what is what is your community foundation doing, or what do you wish your community foundation would could be would be doing ? Um, you know, then you know, we’ll we’ll throw it to our to our panel to see if if those suggestions make sense or, you know, if you’re if you’re bringing something new that we haven’t talked about yet, what what’s happening in your community in your, uh, should be happening, or what is what is your community foundation doing, but let’s, bring it in. Anybody in the audience live warnings here. Anybody here representing the community foundation now everybody is in non-profit they’re all five, one, two, three yes, grantee granted type organization live in the studio, okay, but on youtube, our life stream bring it, bring it in. If you want, you want to join the conversation, please do. What ? Anything else trending that you’re seeing ? Uh, yeah, yeah. You know, you got more every time i say there’s always there’s. Always more. Yeah, i guess, in terms of the work being done, there’s a little bit of a growing interest in, um, something called impact investing on dso folks may be familiar with that, but essentially what they are are, you know, look, low cost loans that are given teo either a nonprofit organization or perhaps even a for-profit organization with social purpose and these will cost loans, you know, they’re given with the expectation of the return of that of that loan, of course. And so what it might create is a little bit of a cycle. So those, you know, those funds might come back and they might be recycled for, uh, alone to another organization that’s that’s affecting some sort of change in the community. Those impact investments tend to be focused on, you know, economic development, workforce development, but not necessarily so. It just seems to be, you know, the most common example that i’ve seen two very visible examples that are pretty easy to look up and learn more about our, um go go atlanta going tol, which is from the community foundation for greater atlanta, and benefit chicago. Uh, from the community from the chicago community trust with calvert impact capital on i think, the mcarthur mcarthur foundation. And um, yeah, so they, you know, they give these low cost loans, teo organizations that are either looking to become sustainable or to attain a specific impact, so, you know, create three hundred jobs. Back-up oppcoll mary-jo in brooklyn, we’re having conversations around impact investing, i think a lot of organization, a lot of foundations, air thinking around the other ninety five percent, right ? So, like low payout of a foundation is five percent and trying to think about the ninety five percent for us what we’ve actually looked at his divesting on dh so making sure that none of our none of our money is invested in issues that are antithetical to the issues that we’re working on, right ? So we divested from predatory lending, private prisons, guns, those are all things that are challenges that we are trying to address of the of the grantmaking and we don’t want to be making money off of something that we’re trying to address. On the on the other side, and so, i think, is we think about our racial justice lens. We’re royally wanting to ensure that were using that lens toe and analyze and make decisions that every part of the foundation. So, whether it’s, the investing, whether it’s, the grantmaking, whether it’s, our operations, making sure that we’re as solid as possible and thinking about how we show up to do the work does the investing for your endowment fund. You do have an outside. We have an outside investor that does that, and we have a fight. Yeah, way have ah, the uh, fundez finance committee is the one that overseas that, on a quarterly based probably the aspirin policy statement. Yes, advisor has to follow his lead. Yeah, advisor model. Yeah, yeah, yeah, i’m a chance, probably coming. Next-gen what else ? What else is, uh, what else is happening in brooklyn that you think others others should know about ? I mean, i think one of the things that’s important to raise up about the community foundation, i’m sure we’ll get into this more on the way we get to the death side, but within our community fund, so we’re a little bit different in terms of two thirds of our grantmaking is done via community fund, and only a third of it is done via our dafs but even within our community fund, we have about eight different programs. One of our programs is called the spark program and that’s an opportunity like i said to be ableto share our decision making with the community. And so this is a space where every year, thirty five, folks from all over brooklyn come together, they read through all of the applications of organism organizations that are approaching the foundation. Last year we had one hundred fifty. This year, we have about similar they approach the foundation looking for telling us about what future plans they have, and we’re really looking, teo, be able to select organizations that are showcasing some of the most exciting work happening in brooklyn, and one of the things that’s really nice about that is that it not only allows us to be able to have an open process to have folks come in and help advise and make decisions as to where these dollars are going, but it also allows folks to be able to understand the breath of work that’s happening within the foundation and within the sector here, use this as a transition go for approaching approaching community foundation for fundez okay, because everybody here in the audience and the audience is interested in that in that situation, and i’m guessing a lot of the lifestream audiences to so ah non-profit of a potential grantee. I know i have a community foundation local, but i’ve never really developed a relationship. How do i start ? I mean, there are a lot of different ways to do it. I think one of the best things to do is to be able to get on to the ea blast. I’m sure most community foundations have this. We have one that goes out. It shares all of the work that’s happening at the foundation, including connecting you. To all sorts of other opportunities that are open toe non-profits within the sector s o that sort of a passive way to get a sense of the opportunities that are coming. I think the other piece of it is teo, be ableto look on the web site, see what the foundation is funding. I know we talked a little bit about many foundations tend to many community foundations tend to be broad like broad tent. Everything under the sun. Brooklyn community foundation is a little bit different and so far as we know have a number of different opportunities that are focused on what the community told us that they were most investors interested in. So we have our invest in youth portfolio, which is our largest portfolio. We have a neighborhood strength program that’s investing very specifically in crown heights. We have our accelerator program that’s looking into lake undergird and strengthen the entire non-profit sector and so being able to take a look and just do your research about, like, do you fit into any of those spaces and how to approach the foundation in the normal way ? Researchers research is super key i’ve heard i know. This it’s unfortunately r coming that foundations with community or otherwise get a lot of enquiries around interest areas that they don’t work it. Yeah, but the foundation is it wasn’t fun buy-in the organization would have save itself a lot of time and anxiety if it had just done some basic research is beginning, and i am not approaching the foundation. You’re not goingto you’re gonna make the foundation drift for turn direction from its mission, you got it. Basic research is is essential, i think that’s key. I do think the other piece of it, though, and i think this is also true of community foundations, of being responsive, especially to crisis, one of the things that we set up right at the day after the presidential elections, as we created a four year commitment to safeguard brooklyn’s immigrant communities, and so we created a four year currently two million dollar immigrant rights fund, and so that is something that we weren’t necessarily funding deeply before we had an immigrant youth and family strand within our invest in youth portfolio, so we had familiarity with it. We knew about that space of work, but as that as we made the commitment as we’ve deepened our commitment over time, we’ve gotten to know that area a lot better than we did when we necessarily entered into the work. And and i think one of the important pieces of being a community foundation is we still need to know all of the work that’s happening within the non-profit sector, and so we’re constantly having calls with folks that may not necessarily be in the wheelhouse of one of our given programs, but it’s our responsibility to be ableto understand the work that’s happening both to be ableto, like, respond in crisis, and be aware, but also to be able to advise our donors, right, and to be able to say we may not necessarily specifically fund help. But if we have a donor that’s interested in health, we need to know enough to be able tio advise appropriately and that’s one of the places where spark is really helpful to us. Is that it’s a place where, despite the fact that we have, you know, commitments in these given funding areas, we are creating a portal where everyone is able to approach the foundation to be ableto go before the spark committee to talk about the work that we’re doing your open so we’re open in that way i have to stop yes, go for it. We’re gonna continue this excellent. This is what i think people are most interested in is how do i approach way are going to talk about when you were dafs donor advised funds that’s coming up ? How do we how do you connect with those buy-in if you don’t advice fundez donors and donors teo to encourage them to give to your organization, i got a little business hyre pursue it. There are nu e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups, they take secrets from the fastest growing come on corporate startups and apply those methods and best practices to your non-profit the resource is free as all the resources are pursuing you. Find this book on the listener landing page that’s at tony dot m a slash pursuing capital p tony that i may slash pursuing capital p you’ll get there e book when you see piela they have something new on their block. It’s cold new revenue recognition standard really impact me. Okay, that sounds like a real sleep sleeper. Not even something. I mean, i would even necessarily read that at night, but the point is, that’s, where you want your superiors heads to be right in the tax code. There is this new thing, this new revenue recognition standard, and it it does impact you. It could very well. In fact, you it’s all around. How you categorize your donations, you’re all getting gift. That’s what this is all about. This is where you want your superiors to be in the tax code buried, mired in the new revenue recognition stand. Check out you get the, uh you could get it on. You can check out regular cps a cz well, wagner, cps, dot com. You want to go deeper ? Quick resource is that block. Tell us for credit card processing if you’re taking if you take credit cards, you know businesses that take credit cards that are already supporting you through the months of the show, the show for years, but they’ve been a sponsor for like six months or so. I’ve been reading testimonials from non-profits that referred businesses from businesses that are using tello’s for their credit card processing. Everybody is satisfied what happens is you non-profit in a long tale of passive revenue, could you get fifty percent of the revenue that tello’s earns from all the credit card process ? Is that it that it complete for the businesses you refer you refer businesses use ? Tell us for the credit card processing you get fifty percent of the fees tell us earns that’s the point long tail of passive revenue the landing page for listeners is that tony dot m a slash tony tell us and text e-giving you’ll get more revenue because they make e-giving very simple. If your daughter’s consent, a text message that could give you been thinking about, uh, changing providers of you thinking about doing, uh, text to give campaign check out text e-giving very simple. You text npr for now. Proper mating npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine and i’ll get you a special listener offer and info on text e-giving some for tony stick to and i want to spend more time talking about the foundation center and foundations that month on non-profit radio, this is our second episode. We’re here all month. You could see this backdrop is here in the library all month, that foundation there’s still devoted to non-profit radio thank you to the foundation center on dh non-profit radio is devoted to bringing conditions center info there’s there’s a to our listeners to our thirteen thousand listeners each week. There’s, a foundation center staff member on every panel. Well, four shows this month. Hyre and there’s someone from a foundation related to the topic we’re talking about is, well, next week we’re going to talk about private foundation, and soon shulman is going to be the foundation center panelist on on that panel, so we’re spending the month of the foundation center join us if you go to, uh, if you go to tony dot and slash fc mud, you got to use the capitol effort capital c and capital m tony dahna mary slash fc months, then you could see what the other your shows are coming up next to fridays very grateful to the foundation tender for hosting us a whole month of september. Let’s, go back to our panel it’s david rose otto he’s, the vice president of programs at the brooklyn community foundation, know that xero mary-jo thermos present programs of the brooklyn community foundation. David rosario was the member services manager at cf insight. All right, dahna sometimes it gets way we’re talking about talking about spark and allowing portals that allow all organizations to approach a community foundation. Is that is that common ? I’m gonna ask you our most community foundations open tio conversations about what’s happening in the community, even if it’s not an area that they’re currently funding or you think that you’re unusual in that, i think i mean, i would hope that all community foundations are open to that conversation because it’s important, i know i’m of course i’m going on tv, but i wanna ask you i mean, i would say i think yes, and i think partly because many communicate community foundations are big tent and so they may be trying to support a little bit of everything and so buy-in being able to know a little bit about everything is important. If we’re going to support a little bit about everything, very has a hope. Thank you. Could tell me if it’s true cash or is it fulfilled ? I would say it’s probably fulfilled for most of the field. So they have. Yeah, i would say if they have the capacity to do so. There are a lot of community foundations that are either, uh, perhaps either unstaffed or have a very small staff of one two folks. And so you know that so they yeah, they might not be able to take inquiry so they might be focused on, you know, there’s their specific issue areas. And frankly, you know, and becoming sustainable energies as well. But the ones that are larger that, you know, they have teams, you know, that that are in charge of, you know, learning about community needs and being in touch with folks. Those i would say that, you know, once you get to a certain size, then it’s a pretty safe bet. There. There, there, there, there, there. And yeah, i want to give it another two nufer questions. So i want to see anybody. Anybody in the studio warnings have questions. So you’re handup we got any something, anything on ? Yes. Ok. Ok. But the studio audience you still you still open will bring you a mike and you can ask questions. Is there one ? Okay, let’s, go to the top of the live stream, then. Uh, susan, okay, monitoring our luxury. So way first want to say thank you to chance say tv for helping us. They’re listening. And they’re helping us with the quality of the lifestream. And we have catherine barlow on youtube, so i think kathryn was listening to us last week. She has a comment for you. Tony. I got the book guy one last week. Really interesting. Catherine has a comment question. J holds a brooklyn community foundation work. The book was really interesting. So catherine wishes to say brooklyn used to be its own city, and katherine also wishes to ask our panelists. I wish our community foundation made larger grants that made a bigger impact on our communities and programs and our needs. So much a question, comment so larger grants, fewer organizations or smaller targeted grants to more organizations. Uh, i’m gonna ask you first, david, you know, you know, the operations. Yeah, i mean, that’s tricky. So it it it’s i don’t want to dodge the question or anything, but it does depend on the community foundation. So they have, you know, if they have a really robust grantmaking program in there, and they’re making tons of transactions, um, you know, depending on the ability of that community foundation, tio have the funds, frankly, to move, uh, those those grants are going to be, you know, depending on the size of the fund that is coming up from, um, or you know what the focus of the donor might be, some of these grants would be larger. But, you know, some of these grants are also gonna be smaller as well, especially if they’re from a small fallen that’s. That’s a challenge ? Um, i think, well, so we have a wide range, so our largest grant is one hundred thousand dollars or smallish grant is literally a thousand dollars. We our smallest grants are given by our youth fellows, and so they are part of our constituent. Lead grantmaking process where they are making grants to other young people in the community, and they are able to do grant the level that we would struggle with this you should be making lorts uh, fewer large grants or more smaller grant’s teo teo, you struggle with i think it is a struggle. I mean, we’ve ended up in a place where we’re able to do a little bit of each, so we’ve got tiny grants, we’ve got large grants, i would say our average grant is like, twenty five to thirty thousand, so, like, meaningful enough to have impact, i think the other piece i’m just gonna say one other thing, um, which is why i rarely listen to the rules, but i was going to say we also do multi year in general operating support as standard operating practice, and so i think sometimes it’s not only about the size of your grant, but it’s, the way that you’re showing up. So what we’ve heard from our grantees time and time again, is that it’s important for them to have visibility into the future so that they can plan for two or three years about staffing and organizational health, which is what we want them to be ableto have and general operating that they can use the money for whatever comes up. And i think, especially looking at the groups that are responding in them. I mean, i’m thinking specifically of our immigrant rights portfolio, but the fact that those grants are able tto go towards what is most needed in this moment, there are a lot of things that are showing up for organizations that they may not have planned for. And so it’s both the amount and the flexibility. David, what do we know ? The average grantspace eyes ? Um, for the entire field ? Uh, yeah. It’s a number i don’t have on me, but yeah, i was thinking it would be somewhere in the five digit. So it be you know, someone the neighborhood of fifteen to twenty five thousand dollars somewhere in that area ? Yeah. Anything else from from our live stream ? Okay, hyre so let’s continue. Then i want to move to dahna advice. Fundez you have your, uh, broken committee condition has a daughter advice from the program. How do we connect ? If i’ma again ? I’ma non-profit seeking grants. How do i get to know what dahna advice fundez donors are interested in so that i can make my case i mean, i think this is where it’s, good to be able to approach your community foundation and where be able to talk to them in some ways, irregardless of the purported values are, you know, like portfolios that are listed on the website we’re always being we’re always taking these conversations and constantly thinking about what donors we might be able to pull into the grantmaking to be able to bring opportunities that either we’re funding organizations that we may not necessarily be supporting, but we know, would be interest to a donor to them, you know, for us, it’s sort of were small and growing, we were approaching sixty funds, so were modest in size. Um, and we actually dispersed sixty five percent of our dafs assets on an annual basis, so we’re you know, we’re making sure that the money that’s coming into bcs it’s also getting back to the field that’s a common frustration among non-profits among people who study these things that there’s a lot of money sitting in dahna advised funds that isn’t getting out to non-profits that that the donor earned income charitable income tax deduction in the year that they made their gift to the dock to their donor advised funds. But then the money isn’t getting out to charities. It’s sitting in the donor advised, uh, i think the largest is fidelity is fidelity virality latto advice here. Several billion dollars, right ? And many of the top i think many of the top ten, like five or six of the top ten are are affiliated with corporation fidelity, schwab bank a vanguard goldman sachs. You’ll have charged alarms that managed dahna uh how how so, let’s, if we segregate out let’s, go back to the community foundation now saying get out the corporation, how common are dahna advice ? Find a grams in our community foundation. I would say it’s super common there. Yeah, you know, it’s been so everything depends on the size of the community foundations. But, you know, at the minimum, if you’re looking at the smallest community foundations, these are the ones that are under twenty five million dollars in assets. About, on average from our last survey. About fifteen percent of their assets aren’t donor advised funds when you get to the largest community foundations. Those are the ones that are about five hundred silicon valley. Yeah, silicon valley near community trust. You know, chicago, atlanta ? Uh, those guys on average, about forty percent a little under forty percent of their assets are going to be in dahna advice wants and that’s being scared by a couple of the ones that are really heavily, uh, you know, uh, invested in dahna advice funds or have a lot of their assets and donorsearch like silicon valley. But, um, you know, that’s that’s where the average there was a lot of press around steve baller when he made i think of almost two billion dollars contribution to a donor advised funds through the silicon valley community foundation that two billion dollars is gonna ask you right back to the average too. The donation average drink. David, do we know how common it is for community conditions to be a cz proactive ahs ? Brooklyn is in connecting donors, too, to the non-profits in the community with regard to donor advice. But with daughters. Yeah, yeah. So it’s. A little bit tricky. Because there are dahna relation, staff about a lot of these. Community foundation so these are the staff that are tasked with being in touch with the donors and getting them connected with the non-profits that they might might be interested in funding. And so that’s what i would bring up as a potential touchpoint for a non-profits reach out their community foundation if there’s somebody who’s there that might be helpful for them and getting in touch with the donor advised funds, uh, donors, then, uh, you know, somebody in the donor relations department might be really helpful for them. Um, in terms of a proactive approach, i not i couldn’t say it’s super common. I’m not sure how common it is, but my my hinckley is that it’s ? Probably not something that is a proactive approach. Ok. You think it’s too widespread ? I don’t have to. Yeah, let’s, continue. Good burial. What ? We want to break down these barriers. Okay ? Let’s do. It non-profits the potential grantees on dh and the donors who are often totally unknown. Unapproachable. You’re breaking that down if we have. If we were a community where the community foundation is open too, you know, to hearing from us about what we do. What we can encourage grants from the donor advised funds to our work. What else ? What else should we be doing ? I mean, i think being able, teo, even if you can’t necessarily get an audience or a phone call, email, let the foundation know what you’re up to. We’re really good about making sure that our information that’s coming in from organizations gets to r r r dafs side of the dafs side of the house in at brooklyn community foundations, seventy per assent of our dafs distributions go back to brooklyn, so a large percentage of the folks who are choosing toe open dafs at brooklyn community foundation, i think, are doing so both because of our racial justice lens and our commitment tio brooklyn, and the way in which were showing up, and so their dollars aren’t necessarily being distributed in flowing elsewhere. They’re being invested reinvested within the community because policy it’s not because of a policy, but i think if we were i mean, we’ve said this internally, like if all of a sudden it started skewing drastically, one of the questions would be, why not brooklyn ? And then we would need to weigh want them way. Want folks to give where they live, right ? Um, and i think the other piece of it is in terms of the fees that come out of our death one hundred percent of that go into our community fund. So that’s also money that’s reinvested into brooklyn. Eso i think there is ways for non-profits to be able to approach foundations and just build relationships with your cfc the way that you would with any foundation. But then there are other pieces of that of why a community foundation should be more receptive to your doing that unnecessarily and independent foundation that might be like this is so not within our wheelhouse. We don’t have the time or the interest to engage in that way about how audience studio and live stream any frustrations have you have you tried to approach your community foundation on dh ? Were unsuccessful. Any frustrations around dahna advised funds ? Have you had successes with donor advised funds ? Means not all frustration and consternation. He had success with donor advised funds from your community foundation. Has that been working for you ? Uh, happy to hear anybody in the audience. Studio audience ? Nothing still. Okay. Okay. All right. I’m only movement. We’re open for your hands up. All right, what ? What more can we say ? Uh, about committee foundations and don’t and don’t advice fund-raising hope yeah non-profits get. Yeah, well, i was one thing that i could point out is that donor advised funds are super active grantmaking vehicle. So, you know, even though they are growing, you know, popularity, they’re not going anywhere. They’re growing in popularity. Their assets are growing by a lot. So we look at, you know, a comparison between five years ago, if we looked at twenty thirteen versus last year twenty seventeen, um, you know, assets went from, you know, under twenty million, twenty billion dollars to around thirty five billion dollars. That’s a huge jump in five years. Uh, gifts jumped from, uh, somewhere around five billion dollars to somewhere around six billion dollars, but grants from about two and a half billion dollars to over five million dollars. So grants are growing at a rate that’s much higher than it was in what there was between twenty thirteen, twenty, seventeen. So double. So we thought that’s more another. Yeah. Um, and, you know, when you look at the the payout rates, you know, between donor advised funds and other funds that most community foundations that take our survey, you know, we’re looking at, you know, hyre distribution rate that may be hovering around five percent for most of the community foundation when we’re looking at donorsearch vice buy-in specifically, uh, you know, we’re looking at double digits, you know, eleven, twelve, thirteen percent of assets are going back out into the community so on that gap widens the larger community foundation because they have lesson, you know, if you’re in doubt asset, so more of that’s gonna be passed through and go back out yeah, and, you know, at the same time, uh, you know, i mentioned the Numbers a second ago 4:20 seventeen but, you know, about, uh, six million dollars in gifts and five million dollars a grant, so most of those dollars are going right back out the same year, so, you know, just mentioning him is a is a really hyperactive grantmaking all right, because that is a a common argument is that, as i said earlier, that the money is not flowing out of the donor advice, but donors were earning a charitable income tax deduction and the money sitting dahna advice ? Yeah. Yeah, you know. And even with the pale, right, uh, issue there to, uh, we could definitely benefit from having better data because these are numbers that are in the aggregate. So there might be, uh, you know, individual donor advice fund accounts that are that are distributing a majority of their assets or most of their assets in here. Um, where most of what comes in, but there might be other donor advice once accounts that aren’t moving dollars in a specific year, maybe for a couple of years. There are community foundations are out there that are that are protecting against that a little bit with some of their their internal policies. So there’s something called variance power that a community foundation can can exercise and effectively. What that means is that they have final say, jorgen jill, i know. Sorry. I try my best of the final means power with various provisions. Yeah, there’s always closing. But i slept my way back. Um, but so effectively when a donor opens, the donor advised funds are donates funds to a donor. Advised funds. They do forfeit legal ownership over those funds. They belong to the community foundation, so there is a reasonable expectation that that when they make a recommendation for a grant that the community foundation is going to give the grant that they recommend but there’s no there’s, no binding, you know, legal precedent, no agreement that says that they have to do with donor in-kind so the reason i bring that up is because if there’s a donor who doesn’t give a grant for let’s, say, three or four years, depending on the community foundation, that community foundation can then exercise at various power and select non-profits that are as close to the donors original intent as as possible and side distributing this wouldn’t be a first, yeah, encouraged donorsearch media and here’s, our own recommendations will definitely start money out of your own team. Now, this problem booklet, you said money is flowing out. Yeah, i mean, we’re doing site visits for folks to be able to engage with organizations um, we want to, you know, we’re learning about organizations to be able to feed them to donors, so that has not been our not have not been our issue there, which yeah, we’ll take out how common is it that that a committee foundation would exercise that that power ? Yeah. That’s that’s what ? I mean, when i say we could benefit from better data way have individual, uh, you know, fun level transaction data, then we can really get at, you know, how many of the funds are, you know, uh, maybe an active for a year or two, and which are the ones that are super active ones that are bringing that payout right out. So, yeah, you know, i would encourage foundations to share their grantmaking various power, yeah, uh, that seems that seems that seems pretty draconian. That’s we’re taking your money and we’re giving it to you, i think is close to what you say you’re in. Yeah. I mean, they’re trying to align with mission. They join a lot of steps before. Yeah. It’s a pretty for sure. Yeah. It’s a pretty dress. Still no questions about how to approach a donor advised funds about getting money for your non-profit from a donor advised funds. I’m answering all the questions. We’re i’m that good. Like channeling the audience so perfectly if there are no questions, i do have a question that i heard from someone a couple of days ago about if you receive money from a donor advised funds often time it kind of it appears almost anonymously, like ghost money. How do you think a donor who gave that money ? Do you think that donor or do you think the foundation ? Do you think whoever the person is, who made the connection ? So the donor advised fund if there is one, is there any process around that ? Because just to set the stage because the check comes from community foundation, right, right and security condition is at least under no obligation to tell you you the non-profit who the person is, and maybe they’re not even allowed to so that’s the that’s, the issue ? What does that come in here saying word ship ? Yeah, right. How can we say thank you to the donor ? I mean, we have we have ways of being able, and we have a lot of dafs where they’re like e-giving circles and their highly involved, so you would know who they’re coming from. Um, and so in that circumstance, i would say he would just reach out and, you know, say thank you and cultivate that relationship in that way as you would any thing else, the anonymous ones ? I would say it’s still probably a great idea to be able to send a thank you to the foundation, and i would imagine the foundation would forward it on to the death boulder i mean, we’re were in service to being able to support the non-profit sector, right ? We want the money to be able to go to brooklyn. Non-profits and one of the things that we’re constantly trying to do is be able to increase visibility and increase understanding of the work so that more people are compelled to give to these exceptional non-profits they’re doing really important work, so we’re you know, we want to be able to see that relationship flourish and grow, and so i would say that we’re on the same side of wanting to make that happen, even maybe even a little more proactive and specifically say, please pass this on teo to the donor who created the fund and include a little private note for for for our donor, uh, asked the foundation to send that along. We do that implant e-giving all the time when now there’s a question we got one minute. Left. All right, get your quest, tracy made with one question. We’re going to wrap up with this question. You have to be so concise. I pleaded for questions, okay, so this is the first time i’m hearing about donor advised funds, and i’m still unclear. How do you find out about those funds ? Are they listed in the community in the port they listed on the website ? How do you find out what dahna guys funds will find ? Yeah. Yeah, yeah could start at an answer. They’re a couple ways. So, you know, uh, to be so brief. Yeah. So, uh, about ten years ago in two thousand six, there was part of the pension protection act said that, uh, that, uh, foundations needed list out at least a couple of data points about the donor advised funds. So how money they have, how much they’ve given out from them, how much they received to them. So you have an idea of how much of their grantmaking activity is coming from donorsearch vice funds, they might have a listing on their website, but they usually would have an honor roll on their annual report, so they might say they might call out their top donors, and many of those might be donorsearch buy-in might be a good way for you to kind of figure out who among those might have given you that grant ware so i was just gonna say that’s exactly, right ? So, like, i’ve got our brooklyn insights, and so you have an entire page of who well, who the funds are. And then we also have snapshots about each about some spotlighted donors on dh. Talking about what their values are and what they’re looking for. Really. Thank you so much time with giveaways. So, uh, life’s dream on buy-in studio get your phones. We’re gonna be giving away a book. I got the first five people first five people who text are going to get a copy of this book, which is modern media relations for non-profits creating an effective pr strategy for today’s world. This is written by two journalists to former journalists who were on the show. Peter panepento and internet car. They’ve been there on last month. All former journalist. They had a reach. Media. Okay, so, first thing, he’s number, of course. The Numbers 2:5 2 five one five seven nine eight seven two five two five one five seven nine eight seven by the way that area code two five two that’s where i have a home north carolina so you could send good thoughts along with your tax i’ll tell you what detecting a second but you have to keep listening to me two five two yeah that’s morehead city area code where the hurricane is hitting right this second so you’re you’re um but it’s actually being answered by service in california, so you’ll get answers. Don’t you’re not gonna get floodwaters back ? Um, all right, so the number once again to one, two, five, two, five, one, five, seven, nine, eight, seven. The brute. This book is brand new. You’re gonna get media relations. The first five people to text are going to get a copy of it. Er, and here is what you text. You text the tension with a knife in the room, you text the word community community. Okay, that’s, the giveaway and it’s time for me to thank our guests again. Barry camari banerjee murthy, vice president programs of the brooklyn community foundation and david rosana remember services manager for cf incites a service of the foundation center. Thanks so much. Thank you could join welcome and thank you, who next week, as i said, we’re going to be, uh, of course we’re back at the foundation senator, talking about family foundations, i don’t get the attention of family foundation’s when they say they’ll contribute on ly too pre selected organization when you do have to break that down. And what of strategies to keep relationships going after you have, in fact started them talk about all that next week, same time next week. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, fine on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing capital p when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by tell us that credit card payment processing your passive revenue stream tony dahna slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr. To four, four, four, nine, nine, nine a. Creative producers. Claire meyerhoff, sam live, which is the usually the line producer, but not this week, shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy. This music is by scott stein, and many thanks to hear the foundation center. These are the line producers tracy kaufman, susan she aroma and william lee here at the foundation center. Thank you so much. You really next week for non-profit radio, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go and wait.