Tag Archives: revenue

Nonprofit Radio for October 11, 2021: Next Year’s Plan For Your Year-End Donors

My Guest:

Poonam Prasad: Next Year’s Plan For Your Year-End Donors

We’re in the 4th quarter and you’re expecting a lot of fundraising revenue. You want those donors with you next year and beyond. Poonam Prasad has the strategies to make that happen. She’s president of Prasad Consulting & Research.

 

 

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[00:00:10.84] spk_4:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio

[00:01:41.44] spk_1:
Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast and oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of Ruba malaria if you made me hot with the idea that you missed this week’s show next year’s plan for your year end donors. We’re in the fourth quarter and you’re expecting a lot of fundraising revenue. You want those donors with you next year and beyond. non Prasad has the strategies to make that happen. She’s president of Prasad consulting and research on tony state too planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. It’s a pleasure to welcome to the show for the first time Hunan Prasad. She is founder and president of Prasad consulting and research, providing board and staff training, audit, major gift capital campaign and publication services to non profits. She’s on the executive committee of the Giving institute, leading consultants to nonprofits before nonprofit work. She was an investigative reporter and worked in journalism, advertising and pr in India south Korea Hong kong the West Indies and the U. S. Her company is at Prasad consulting dot com and she’s at prasad c Welcome to the show. Prasad opponent. Prasad. Welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:01:53.44] spk_0:
Thank you Tony. It’s a pleasure to be with you.

[00:02:02.54] spk_1:
My pleasure to have you. Thank you. There’s so many so many facades. I guys called um facade instead of being um so you’re in you’re in new york city, right? You’re coming

[00:02:05.65] spk_0:
to us from new york? Yes. Coming to you from downtown Manhattan

[00:02:09.30] spk_1:
downtown. What neighborhood?

[00:02:11.54] spk_0:
Oh, east mid down. Sorry.

[00:02:13.84] spk_1:
Oh, now you moved in downtown anymore.

[00:02:16.17] spk_0:
Yes. Now we moved, we moved recently near Grand Central Station.

[00:02:20.74] spk_1:
Okay. And your Grand Central. And how about your home? Where where, where is your home?

[00:02:24.55] spk_0:
Also in midtown,

[00:02:26.08] spk_1:
midtown, midtown east. Also,

[00:02:28.39] spk_0:
midtown east. Also. Okay,

[00:03:06.04] spk_1:
East side of new york city. For your business and your home. Wonderful. So we’re talking about this year’s fourth quarter donors and how we want to treat them and work with them So that we hold on to them into 2022 and beyond. So just, you know, because we know the donor attrition is a big problem. It’s a appalling somewhere around 75% annual donor attrition rate. What do you see? You know, generally that, uh, nonprofits could do better about holding on to their year end donors

[00:06:17.64] spk_0:
actually, tony uh, the attrition rate or the leaky bucket is almost, uh, from three donors, you get down to 1.5 or from two donors, you could be down to one next year. So for all the efforts that you’re putting in to bringing these donors in. If you think about, you know, we were a research firm. So we often get people asking us, can you find me new donors? Can you find me new donors? I’m sure we can find them new donors. But the point is, once they’ve got them in, they have spent so much effort and time and money on getting them in. And then if you don’t steward them, if you don’t get to know them and you don’t work with them, then you’re going to lose them by next year. Um, and that’s the tragedy of uh, fundraising. You know, that is really very inefficient. So I suggest only just two little tips, the donors that you get in at the end of the year. There are only two things you need to do with them. one is get to know them. And then the 2nd 1 help them to get to know you. So show them that you are doing the right thing with their money. You know, the impact report reporting, telling them what you did with their money and how you could not have done it without their money. And the second thing learn about them. You know, if you were trying to become friends with someone, you went to a party and you met somebody and you said, you know, this was a really interesting person. Uh, they came to my birthday party, they gave me a present. I would like to be more friends with them. Would you not write them or thank you not? Would you not invite them to a body afterwards. Would you not say it? Let me have coffee with you. These are simple things that we do in everyday life. But then when you’re the executive director of a of a charity, a little social service charity, you said, I don’t like to do fundraising? Well, it’s not it’s human relations. These are people who gave you something they didn’t have to give you. They could have bought a boat, they could have bought a car, they could have bought a dress, they could have bought a rug for their living room. No, they gave that money to you. Shouldn’t you be grateful? Don’t we tell our Children you get a thank you gift for Aunt Mabel. You never met Aunt Mabel writer. Thank you. Not sit down here and right, right, and a thank you note, she sent you this gift. It’s simple. It’s it’s it’s not it’s not it doesn’t even have to be about fundraising. Yes. A lot of small agencies don’t have fundraisers, don’t have dedicated development people, but this is not even about development, This is about standard manners, you know, standard courtesies, things that we grew up with. But when it becomes, oh my goodness, it’s my donors. I don’t like doing this. I’m afraid to ask them for more. You know, just thank them first before you think about asking them for more, you know, and don’t wait too long to figure it out. You know, have the plan now, you’re getting the money in 40% of the money is going to come between October and November and December, that means it’s coming in now, October. You know, and in December you’re gonna get 20% of your money. So what is your plan for January? What is it that you’re gonna do?

[00:07:17.04] spk_1:
Okay, well, we’re gonna we’re gonna get there, we’re gonna get there. Hold on. Um So you made a couple of things, points that I want to amplify about it. Just being a matter of common courtesy in in a lot of respects, and it being about relationship building. All right. So, you’ve got, you know, in in in corporate marketing, there’s the idea of get a finger grab a hand. You know, someone walked into a Starbucks, they bought a coffee. Well, Starbucks doesn’t only sell coffee. They sell music, they sell food, they sell coffee accessories, they sell a tire, right? But not to mention they sell an environment. Uh, so I think there’s a lot we can learn from that. You know, get a finger grab a hand. So someone, let’s let’s take the donor that’s made their first gift, Right? Because that’s the tougher one. That’s the that’s the easiest one to lose

[00:07:20.79] spk_0:
that 1st 1st. That’s the that’s the most fragile relationship,

[00:07:56.14] spk_1:
right? So, we’re gonna start with that. I’m giving you the toughest hypothetical, right? So, all right. So we’ve got a bunch of first time donors, we had a very successful fourth quarter in donor acquisition. We brought in a good number. What however good number is defined by My listeners. That could be 12. It could be 1200. It could be 12,000. We’ve got a bunch of new first time donors. You started to allude to, you know, what’s your plan? What’s your plan for january? What’s your first recommendation for? What we’re gonna do with this, this nice rich cadre of first time donors?

[00:07:59.40] spk_0:
Well, my first recommendation is of course they didn’t within 48 hours to get a tax

[00:08:03.07] spk_1:
receipt. If it’s

[00:08:04.11] spk_0:
Over a certain amount that you need to give them a tax two

[00:08:06.41] spk_1:
$100, requires a receipt. How about your about just a simple acknowledgment letter

[00:08:20.04] spk_0:
Also, you start then you start with the next. So then depending on how much money they got They sent you, you need to figure out who they are. If it’s over $1,000, you need to send it to somebody to research somebody in your office or somebody you outsource it to. You need to figure out who this donor is and why they gave to you.

[00:08:34.84] spk_1:
Well, all right. But for some non profits that could be, if it’s over $100,.

[00:09:16.54] spk_0:
Yes. If it’s over $100, you might wait till January and take the whole batch and screen them. So we are now screening a batch for a social service agency in Connecticut and we’re screening uh $690 that gave From $20 up in the last two years now. It’s late that we’re doing it now. But you know, it’s better than nothing. So ISIS suggests that, you know, we have another client that we’re doing over the pandemic. They said they had 274 new donors who gave over $500. And we’re looking for people within that Group within that cohort who would give maybe $10,000. They actually have people, we just finished that project and they actually have people who would give them, not just $10,000, but $100,000.

[00:09:46.04] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. All right. Let’s take a step at a time. So We’re sending our acknowledgment within within 48 hours. And if the tax receipt is required, then you might incorporate that into your acknowledgement or you might send something separate. Alright. We’re saying thank you fast. Now, is there is there nothing else between, you know, suppose that’s in october or november, donor. Nothing else between that and screening them in january. Don’t we want to we want to be involved with

[00:10:41.94] spk_0:
them. Yes. Yes. So then you start then you start with the seven. Thank you. Then you start with the seven. Thank you because this person has given you a a donation and depending on their level of giving and the effort you have to put in. You start with sending them your annual report, your newsletter. Welcome email. Some some agencies have a three series of welcome emails. And so you do that. Maybe you send them a donor survey which they respond to and tell you what aspect of their uh of your program they are interested in. That will help you a lot uh to know you know, we have a social service agency. They do senior care, they do middle school education, they do uh other kinds of adoption. So now which program is that person interested in? They can tell you or you can find out given are based on when you do the screening and when you do the research, you will see what else they’re giving to. And that will give you a clue as to which part of your program they care about.

[00:11:03.94] spk_1:
All right, well, you also have a clue based on what they gave to. Yes.

[00:11:04.45] spk_0:
Yes. If if

[00:11:05.88] spk_1:
if you know a lot of people don’t designate a gift. I agree. I agree with you. But if they designate their gift to a particular program, then you know where their affinity is.

[00:11:14.69] spk_0:
Yes. And you know that in the database right away. Of course.

[00:11:33.44] spk_1:
Absolutely. Yes. It’s important to preserve what people give to. Just like. It’s important to preserve the donors survey results that you suggest? Absolutely. Okay. What what might be. What what might we be soliciting uh information about in that in that follow up donor survey? You want to get to know folks better

[00:12:47.54] spk_0:
which aspect of the program they care about how they heard of your agency. You know uh Would they ever would they attend a webinar? If if you had one would they be willing to travel and come and see your facility? Uh You know is there a particular staff person that you know they have met with or or they know about you know each each agency is different. So you would ask different questions based on what you want to know about them. Uh what would help you? So those would be for instance with this where there are three different uh we have an irish theater company. Well they would want to know which which playwright you know with their favorite if you’re a music or something you might want to know which music they care about. If you’re a medical agency might we used to send out service and say which disease do you want to know more about? So we can send you newsletters about that disease. So you know based on your interest based on your work. You ask the right questions.

[00:12:49.08] spk_1:
Okay. And you also mentioned the seven. Thank you.

[00:12:52.23] spk_0:
Yes

[00:12:53.93] spk_1:
I say a little more about your seven. Thank

[00:15:37.44] spk_0:
you. This is this is my mantra that I have been teaching. You know I’ve been teaching at N. Y. U. And also at Columbia and I teach workshops all the time. And this is one of my mantra that I teach. And now my students have started deciding it back to me. So and it seems like oh my God you’re going to say thank you thank you thank you. It’s not that you have to be creative. So you might send them the tax receipt which is the first thank you. And then depending on after that you might have uh the executive director writer. Thank you. You might have the development director writer. Thank you. You might have the program director. We have a little archaeological excavation. You know there are two main archaeologists, archaeologists involved with it. and depending on which one uh is uh you know closest to that person who send the gift. We’ll have them right appears on the on the thank you note which we draw for them for some people. I might call them and say you know because I’m in new york city I might call them to say thank you. I have received your gift. It’ll take a while for us to process it. But in the meantime I want you to know that your check was received and we’re so grateful and the excavation will start on such and such a date and we’ll send you pictures and this is our facebook page and you know communicate with them. Uh one of my friends uh sent her son to a boarding school and she sent a little gift where she’d been sending it to the local school all the time. But now because it was a boarding school, the parents suddenly she got a call from my parents really wanted, why is the parent calling me when she said, you know, I know you sent a gift and I wanted to tell you thanks from the school. But also I want to tell you that I was yesterday at the tennis match in which your son played and my son is captain of the team and he played so well and we were so proud of my goodness, do you think that lady is not going to give another gift after that? I mean it’s just brilliant and it wasn’t even a staff member. It was a volunteer. I have I have another agency this year. There was a crisis and people ask me and I happened to have insight into that particular problem. They said what should we give to? I said, oh, this is a great agency. I’ve been, you know involved with them as a volunteer for a long time. You know, they use the money very well. They’re doing really great work. They sent the money. I sent the money. None of us have ever gotten a thank you note. Now they’re doing the work. They have social media, they have facebook, they have Lincoln they have a blast. They’re sending us the, all the information about what they’re doing and we are so happy. They’re doing it. But they didn’t do God one Thank You. And one of the donors sent it from a donor advised fund. He’s got no thank you, let alone seven.

[00:15:43.44] spk_1:
It’s time for a break.

[00:16:43.64] spk_2:
Turn to communications. I’m on their email list and they said something this week. That’s very interesting. They talk about seeing good news stories on social media, uh, specifically linked in, in this case and the uh, frequent lament that people will, will comment that you’ll never find stories like this in the mainstream media. In fact turned two points out that many, many of these good news stories originated in mainstream media. Um, you know, some are, we’re in newspapers, others might have gotten exposure from national outlets like the new york times or CNN, or one of the major networks. But the point is a lot of these stories originate and in some mainstream media and then make their way to social media. So what’s that mean for you? It means there are a

[00:16:44.64] spk_3:
lot of journalists

[00:16:58.94] spk_2:
that are interested in good news stories that maybe just generate a laugh or a smile or it’s, it’s um, it’s more of a story about work that a nonprofit has done.

[00:17:02.04] spk_3:
So the journalists

[00:17:03.33] spk_1:
are out there.

[00:17:04.28] spk_2:
They are hungry for these good news stories. If

[00:17:06.79] spk_3:
you’ve got something

[00:17:07.85] spk_2:
like that.

[00:17:09.74] spk_1:
Look internally,

[00:17:10.74] spk_3:
if you’ve got some good news

[00:17:27.94] spk_2:
turn to, can help you get it noticed right, help you craft that good news story and then get it exposed in all the outlets you’ve heard me talk about. So they finish up this on this. I’m choking up. That’s, that’s how that’s how, uh, much this touches me,

[00:17:33.04] spk_3:
they finish up there

[00:17:58.64] spk_2:
their email by saying there are lots of journalists out there that are ready to give good news stories a look despite what you may read on linkedin. So, you know, they’ve got their eyes on the media market. Turn to communications. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. Now back to next year’s plan for your year end donors.

[00:19:01.14] spk_1:
Yeah. I mean, that’s that is a very bad practice To have gone. Well, you know, some folks say 24 hours, you’re, you’re being more generous 48 hours, that’s still fine. But If it goes much longer than that and you’re, you’re saying it’s been months or whatever, you know, that, uh, to not acknowledge every single gift, I don’t care if these are $3 gifts. I don’t care if the dollar and a half. It still deserves an acknowledgement. You just never know. Someone might be testing you with a small dollar amount and really who gives a dollar and a half anyway, so that, that’s, you know, that’s a hyperbolic on the low end, right? Uh, but if someone gives you $5, they might be testing you, they might have capacity to give 5000 or 50,000. They may have capacity. They may feel whether they can’t or or they know they can, but they’re they’re trying you out every gift deserves acknowledgement. So when you were just describing that’s very poor practice.

[00:19:08.04] spk_0:
Well, unfortunately, the excuse is that they are because they’re doing such good work. They are understaffed and their non profit. So they don’t have capacity.

[00:19:34.24] spk_1:
That doesn’t, that doesn’t sell. That’s a that’s a nonstarter. You need to invest in your organizations to the extent that you can thank people. Thanking people is not overhead, It’s not worthless. It’s it’s an administrative investment. It’s not an expensive, it’s it’s an investment in the relationships that you’re talking about. You mentioned earlier, you know, absolutely relationship building, if that’s an investment thanking

[00:21:02.24] spk_0:
people. Absolutely, and and that’s how one needs to think about it. And and you know, the board members, the staff, the executive director, everybody needs to be aware that how important this is. Now, another thing that people ask us a lot is we got a gift from a donor advised fund and we don’t have any access to the donor. So we don’t know how to thank them and we want to know who they are, what they are and you know, they’re freaking every sort of possible way of trying to google it to trying to get us to do it. This is so simple. This these these two donors who gave to this charity that gave through the donor advised fund that I know about, they are friends of the board members if they put a list in front of the board members and said, you know, we got a gift from. So and so family fund and unfortunately we don’t know how to thank them. They said that maybe they sent a thank you note to the to the donor advised fund agency. Somebody would speak up or you look in your database and say, oh, they came to the gala. This is the same person who came to the gala and sat at, you know, board member access table. So he’s gonna know this person. So let’s tell him that your friend gave us a gift even though there was no gala, even though there was just a virtual gala and he still gave us a gift. He didn’t even sit at your table.

[00:21:24.64] spk_1:
All right. So those, right. Those are, those are good ideas. But there is frustration among, among nonprofits getting donor advised fund gifts when you know, okay, so you’re right, try try your board query your database. But there are gifts that come that sometimes that folks can’t identify and that I know that is a frustration among nonprofits.

[00:21:56.24] spk_0:
Yes. But you know, more and more people have who have set up donor advised funds want people to know who is giving. It’s, it’s less and less about being anonymous. Now, people are going back to setting up foundations or entities from which they can give, uh, and be known and they want that because they want to add their credibility to the gift. They want people to know that a person whom they know give to this charity because it helps the charity.

[00:22:28.74] spk_1:
It does. Right. But there are, there are donors who would not agree with you. But I do, I agree. But there are always some donors that are going to remain anonymous. And I mean, I’ve always thought, you know, focus on the donors who you can identify. I understand the frustration for those. You cannot, they may come to you through a facebook fundraising event and facebook doesn’t share the information. They might come to you from a donor advised fund. That is not a name that you can track, uh, focus on the folks that you can thank and for the donor advised fund. Of course we should be sending a letter to the fund. Right, thanking asking them to forward the letter onto the anonymous donors.

[00:23:12.94] spk_0:
Exactly. And they would, I’m sure the same donor, the same donor, the friend of mine that gave because I said, oh, this is a good charity could give to them. It’s also sent to another charity in the same space. And he got his seven. Thank you. He actually told me I got seven. Thank you. So, he said, you know, the development director wrote, the executive director wrote the board member wrote, they sent him an annual report. You know, they invited him to an event. They sent him different things. You know, I mean reports, personalized. Yeah. All right. I mean, you could take a little video and send it to the person, you know, that you can do

[00:24:18.44] spk_1:
personalized video is a terrific idea. Um, I’ll give a shout out to a company that’s not expensive. Bond euro bongiorno dot com, bong boro easy personalized videos. You shoot a one minute video and you say thank you. And you can, you can be walking, you can have any background you want to know the production value is not the concern, sincerity, The genuineness. That’s the concern. And you do it in a 45 seconds or one minute video. You sent it right back to the right to the person. You can do it immediately. You could do it the next day. So, and Bongiorno is by no means the only personalized video platform out there. But Um, yeah, you’re right. Personalized video is a good one. all right. So you mentioned these screenings. So now we’re now we’re a little longer on now. We’re into January. Right? We’ve done our activities for the fourth quarter. Now we’re conveying into January. What kind of information uh, you’re looking for in a, in a screening. Does it have to be a commercial screening? You know, what are we,

[00:25:09.24] spk_0:
what are we looking at? You could, you could do research or you could just go for a screening depending on the number of donors. If you have seven donors, you know, you just give them to somebody to research who has tools like screening tools and research tools and ask them to do it for you and that’s all you need, You don’t need a sophisticated screening. But if you have 670 donors or something that I knew and they were given maybe over $20 or $50, then you certainly should have a screening down. But don’t try to do it yourself because then when you get it back, you have this information and you have no idea what to do with it because there are mismatches in the screening. It’s an automated process. There are mismatches in the screening. You know, there’ll be a lot of tony-martignetti is and Putin presides in there and you have to make

[00:25:30.54] spk_1:
sure that I don’t know if there are such good examples who not pursued and tony-martignetti are not very common names, but there’ll be a lot of there’ll be a lot of smith’s and uh smiths and joneses et cetera. Okay.

[00:25:32.68] spk_0:
Yes. And and you know you being me is how many food and presents? All

[00:25:39.12] spk_1:
right. There aren’t too many tony-martignetti is I would be surprised.

[00:25:50.84] spk_0:
Okay. In fact it’s more confusing when there are only two or three because then you really begin to think this is your person and then it turns out it’s not your person.

[00:25:53.14] spk_1:
Right? Okay. So you’re you’re you’re caution against doing it on your own or I mean if you’re going to do it on your own. You said if you had just seven or so. You know, you’re not gonna hire an agency for that. But you just, the point is you need to be careful that you’ve got the right person

[00:26:08.50] spk_0:
right? Like checking,

[00:26:10.24] spk_1:
check middle initials, check addresses, check whatever you do know against what you found to make sure you’re, you’re dealing with the right person.

[00:27:04.64] spk_0:
Well, you can, you can outsource, you know, a little bit of work every month with somebody with some research firm. We do that all the time. Uh, you know, it’s not that we do it all, you know, in one go and finish. You know, we have like an arrangement where if somebody new comes in, gives more than $1000 get more than $500. Whatever matters to them, they send it over to us and we screen them, research them, give them back information on that person. Okay. Okay. But it’s geared to small agencies. It’s geared to small agencies so that, you know, because otherwise what happens is the Harvard University’s and the big, big who have seven researchers get all the big donors because they have the tools and they have the staff. So you, you do need to implement some of the techniques that the top fundraising organizations you

[00:27:13.64] spk_1:
mentioned, you mentioned before screening and research tools there, are there some out there that you can suggest that folks can use

[00:28:02.94] spk_0:
on their own. Yes. You could, you could make a substitution with with something like ivy or donor search and try to do some work on your own. You could look at the, you could look at the linkedin profile of the person. If you know, you know, I mean small simple things. You could google them of course. Uh small things that you know, you could look at if you know where they work. You could look at the bio most law firms have the lawyers while on on the website many firms have the, you know, employees, bio senior employees bio doctors. There are free sites for looking at doctors to see what kind of specialty does the doctor have. Is it something that’s relevant to my cause?

[00:28:05.45] spk_1:
Yeah. Good. Alright, right. If you can find the person’s company firm that they work for or practice. Okay. And you mentioned I wave and donor search.

[00:28:31.94] spk_0:
Yes. These are subscription services. So you have to pay a little bit uh, you know, usually it’s in your subscription and you can check out your donors through that. And the aggregate information of other gifts that the organization has received. Other organizations have received from the same donor. Okay. Right. Right.

[00:28:37.14] spk_1:
Other charities that the person is given to us. So then you start to get a little profile of person. All right. So you can have

[00:29:03.54] spk_0:
to be careful because of the person your donor is in new york and the person, a person with the same name is giving in texas, you have to be careful to see why would my donor given texas? Maybe it’s another person or maybe he went to school in texas and he is giving in texas. Or he’s giving to a senior center in texas because my daughter has a mother there who’s in that home. So you know you need to be a bit intelligent about.

[00:29:30.84] spk_1:
Yeah right with that. With that caution you gotta you gotta that caveat. You gotta be uh certain that you’re dealing with the right person. Otherwise you’re going down you’re gonna start talking to the person about their gifts to texas. And they’re going to say I don’t know what you’re talking about and then then you’re gonna be embarrassed. So all right. All right. Um Okay so screening is a possibility. Good. You can engage your company. You can do some on your own. What what what what are we gonna do from what we learned from our screening now? What?

[00:31:54.44] spk_0:
So there’s the thing I mean you know we do research where research for and we send research to our clients. The question is how do you read this research? What does it mean to you? What what is the interpretation you get out of a research report on? Suppose we write a little bio on this person. So what what what what is the strategy that comes out of this research. So the first thing that indicates higher giving is age. So anyone over the age of 60 or 65 has more disposable income. They paid their mortgage, they probably paid their children’s college education. They’re beginning to think about their own, you know, legacy and they’re beginning to give more generously. So 60, you have a better chance of getting a higher upgrading their gifts before that. People are still on that little hamster wheel, you know, increasing their mortgage, buying a little bigger house, sending their Children to a better school. You know, getting them into college, they just often do not have time unless they are very community minded and they might give to their local community or their college or things like that. But but they become more Uh philanthropic, more generous generally after the age of 16. Now, there are always exceptions. The other thing there are a lot of people look for as you know, being in plan giving is people without Children, because people without Children do not have that usual legacy is, oh, I’m leaving good Children into the world. Yeah, that’s great. But when you don’t have Children, you have to really think, what is it that I am leaving? What footprint am I living in this world that I lived and who benefited because I lived And those people take a little more care and thought and and usually we’ll try to make an impact in a different way and you can help them do that and make them happy. And you know, there there’s a lot of studies that say people who give are happier people who give actually benefit more from their gifts than the person receiving. So it’s at that age, particularly when you have that reflective time for reflection that we see better gifts.

[00:32:02.64] spk_1:
It’s time for tony steak too

[00:32:59.84] spk_2:
planned giving accelerator. I’m starting the promotion again this time for the January 2022 class, I have accelerated the accelerator. It’s no longer a 12-month course. It is now a six-month course. I will teach you step by step, Everything that was in the 12 month course, but we’re gonna, we’re gonna step it up six month course. I’ll teach you everything you need to know about starting your planned giving program and you’re not only learning from me, you’re learning from your peers, folks who are similarly situated, they’ve got the same frustrations, they’ve got the same tensions bandwidth constraints as you do. You learn from them, They’re your, they become your friends, your allies, your safety net in planned giving accelerator. So if you want to get your plan giving program started,

[00:33:03.14] spk_3:
You want to start in 2022,

[00:33:05.64] spk_1:
you can start

[00:33:06.28] spk_3:
with plan Giving accelerator. I

[00:33:19.34] spk_2:
hope you’ll join me. All the info you need is that planned Giving accelerator dot com. That is tony stick to, we’ve got boo koo

[00:33:20.86] spk_1:
but loads more

[00:33:21.61] spk_2:
time for next

[00:33:23.10] spk_3:
year’s plan for your

[00:33:24.59] spk_1:
year end donors,

[00:35:46.14] spk_0:
then there are other things like education for one thing, if you know the education you can no other people who went to that school. So maybe you can have them go on. Maybe have a board member went there so you can build a relationship more strongly. But also of course education indicates more disposable income. So you begin to see when you build a profile of the person you say, oh well they went to the school from that area, They studied social work or they studied history or that tells you something about what they are interested in. Right? And then there’s the question of, Although I said that people who don’t have Children, you know, are very sought after by plan giving professionals, on the other hand, people in their lifetime are more generous who have Children over the age of six Because they’re trying to inculcate good values in their Children. They start to see the value of a community. So there are studies that show that people who have Children over the age of six, there could be 6-18, they could be 18-24. But a family unit, a couple usually has more disposable income. It could be a same sex couple or a heterogeneous couple. But the heterosexual couple. But the point is because there are two incomes in that family, they usually have more disposable income. So so that that’s important when you see that. So those are little things that you’re looking at. And then of course there’s the interest, what else they give to, You know, how old are they? Was it their parents that also gave to this charity or this type of charity? I have a I have a friend and he gave to a university music program. And I said to him, why do you give, you didn’t even go to that university? Why are you giving to that music program? He said, well, I became friends with the dean. They invited me to an event. I went on a trip with them to Austria to listen to classical music. And he said in the end, you know, my father died when I was very young. And the one thing I remember is sitting on his lap when he played the piano. So the piano music to him was, and he doesn’t have any Children. So, you know, that’s what makes him happy giving to students who play the piano

[00:36:20.23] spk_1:
reminds us of course reminds him of his dad. And he hopes that that uh those young students will have Children of their own and their those Children will sit on their laps the way he sat on his dad’s lap. All right. Those are good. Those are, those are valuable insights that we can, we can get from uh, that we that we can get from the screening. So now going back to what you had suggested earlier when you said get them to know you and let them get to know, uh, sorry, get to know them and let them get to know you. So how do we do the second part of that now that we have this information, valuable insights? How do we let these new donors get to know us?

[00:37:37.13] spk_0:
Well, we talked about the series of three emails that welcome them. We have invitations. Uh, and of course in this environment, maybe you can’t invite them so easily, but you could still send them a video. Now. We had a homeless, uh, organized agency for homeless people last year that we were working with. And they sent out a video of their new building and somebody sent them $25,000 just from that video because it was the Executive director going through the building and saying, you know, we had such hopes for this building. We finally got it built. We’ve got all these people were going to bring into this building and the person was so touched. He was also a senior citizen. He had money. He felt like, oh, let me help. There are other people out there my age who do not have housing. And here is somebody who’s an agency that’s providing it. And that video, you know, a small video that they didn’t even actually seriously ask for money in it. They just said, and if you’d like to, you know, there was a little bit and

[00:37:44.23] spk_1:
well, it it touched it touched somebody. Well, video can do that. It’s powerful that way.

[00:39:16.22] spk_0:
All right. And of course a tour with the executive director. So you’re really getting to know the person, you know, face to face. So as best you can in this environment. You know, it’s a trusting relationship. So by video you’re seeing them as best you can. The other thing is of course you could set up coffee with them and people are much more accessible now because they’re not going out. So people are taking calls even if they are not. Yeah. In where at home, they’re still taking calls from wherever they are. They’re doing zoom with you. They want to be conducted. All of us are starved for human contact. We took these things for granted. And now suddenly we realized how valuable our community is. You know, I walk out, I’m an anonymous new york city right where nobody really knows anybody and you walk on the street and nobody should recognize. You know, it’s not like that anymore. The moment I walk out on the street, my neighbors are standing out there, they’re also walking. There’s no nowhere to go and nothing to do except to go for a while. So they’re all out there walking and they all suddenly know each other. So you realize how important your community is. So do you think that the area neighborhood association and things that are being done in our neighborhood are getting more attention. Sure, more people are planting, helping to plant in the parks, more people are helping to give to the local community association. Suddenly that’s becoming more important. So something that’s good for the small agencies.

[00:39:18.39] spk_1:
So engagement, Yeah. Uh, engagement at whatever level it might be something communal and community and in, in face to face,

[00:40:10.61] spk_0:
yes, might be something come and paint a mural on your wall of your, you know, of your agency. We have a, a friend of mine runs a clear art center community, you know, they make pottery, they got the local artists together to come and paint the wall even urine Corbett, they could still do that. You wear your mask, You come and paint the world their artistic. So you could plant flowers in your garden, invite them to do that, invite them to do outdoor things in the local park. You could have a gathering of rooftops. People have been doing gatherings or some of our clients have been doing gatherings or rooftops whatever you can do outdoors, especially in the summer. And then also we were talking, well, we were

[00:40:14.43] spk_1:
talking about january, but that’s okay. Well into spring

[00:40:55.71] spk_0:
now january, you could do a lunch and learn, which is a good time to do a lunch and learn. And that also gives you an information back because the people who attend, you do the lunch and learn on different programs and people sign up based on the interest. So then, you know, well this donor signed up for this lunch and learn on this program. So obviously that’s what they care about or they might write to you and say I didn’t, I really wanted to attend this, but I couldn’t. So you send them the recording of that lunch. That’s another, uh, value of having something which is recorded, which you’re doing on zoom. You can record it like, just like your radio programs, tony

[00:41:15.11] spk_1:
I’m a, I’m a big fan of big fan of audio. I think it’s very intimate medium, yep. All right. So we’ve, we’ve, we’ve thought through our engagement, it might be something in real life. It might be something virtual. I love. I mean, you gave a lot of good ideas. Um, now we need to plan for the next solicitation.

[00:41:21.53] spk_0:
Now

[00:41:49.61] spk_1:
we’re in, we’re in like the third quarter of 3rd quarter of next year and it’s coming time to solicit the person again. They made a year into gift this year. So we’re going to presume, but they’re, they’re going to do the same. Let’s exclude the folks who maybe became major donors and they’ve got a relationship now with a gift officer. We’re not, we’re not at that level. Uh, we’re dealing with the larger group. We’re planning our fourth quarter. What should we be thinking about in terms of possibly upgrading or should we not try to upgrade in the second year. What’s your advice around planning that, that second year solicitation?

[00:45:27.39] spk_0:
Well, another thing that we never spoke about and some of my clients and colleagues will be very upset if I don’t mention it is creating a giving circle. So you could have, if you have enough donors at certain levels, you could try to upgrade them by creating a council, uh, you know, giving society, you know, so, so somebody who gave 500 you could give them an incentive to upgrade to 1000 because when they’re at 1000 they’ll get such and such benefits. You know, they’ll meet somebody that they care about or they’ll get a painting or they’ll hear a concert or you’ll have some event just for them. So, so you’re constantly upgrading those who gave 500 to 1000, those who gave 1000 to 5000, those who gave 5002, 10,000. So, so a little theater client is probably going to say, oh, you know, uh, famous irish actor is going to speak with 10 of you and you only get invited to that if, if you give, you know, a little bit more than what they were already given and that and that creates a cohort of people. So they have a little sense of community because that giving society is going to meet, um, we have the example of a museum that was up. It’s a very famous glass museum called the corning Museum of Glass and it was very well supported by the corning company. But the corning company went through some very tough times and so they needed private support during that period. So they started with a giving society where people came up, they went through the museum, they were passing by on their way to Niagara Falls or they were interested in glass or whatever and they were told that if you give this much that’s great, we are very grateful. But if you give this much you’ll be invited to an event the opening of our show and guess what? We’ll fly you up in our private plane because corning had the private plan and you won’t have to drive all the way you know from new york city well and and that was something the company could no longer support the museum financially. But they had this plane which flew up with their executives and I was such a such a cashier to to fly up in the blind drain, arrive at this museum, attend this beautiful event on roman glass with food from roman times and then have the director of the museum walk you through the show. I said one of the most beautiful things that you know, I was a stuff remember trying to attend this and I thought I was wowed and and so you know you can be creative with almost anything you could if you’re a social service agency will say well I can’t do that well you know you have people in your community who will come out and provide their celebrity help to you. So you could still have somebody do a little concert or somebody, somebody from your community who’s a wonderful singer musician or something. And and it may be not relevant, but maybe their daughter was helped by your uh, you know, educational charity or their mother was served by your senior citizen center. They will do things for you. There was a person who used to come and play the piano at a senior citizen center in uptown all the way up, you know, above the Columbia University is in Morningside

[00:45:30.03] spk_1:
Heights or something, riverside

[00:46:01.08] spk_0:
riverside riverside. Yeah. You know, they’re above Colombia where the cloisters, the museum is there and nobody knew who this person was. But when we looked him up, he was a very famous pianist who used to play at the Carlyle and his mother was in the center. And so he would come up and perform. And so we asked him if he would perform and he did a concert and Steinway hall for us because he was a famous man and there are little treasures in your community. You just have to find out about them. There are little gems floating around.

[00:46:14.68] spk_1:
All right. So you like the idea of incentivizing folks to give a little give more, Even even in the 2nd year. So they were they were our, it was first year was last year. Now we’re planning for the next year incentivize them to increase even in that just in that second year. Yes,

[00:46:46.98] spk_0:
yes. And they will because you’ve been talking to them, you’ve been engaging with them in different ways and, and maybe some of them will become, you know, much higher level donors because for small agencies, a small amount can make a big difference. There is if they gave that small amount of a much larger organization, they can’t give them that personalized attention and it’s not going to make, its going to be a drop in the bucket.

[00:46:52.58] spk_1:
Yeah. There are those folks who will be more will be more generous

[00:46:56.35] spk_3:
to smaller agencies

[00:46:57.35] spk_1:
because they get a lot better treatment. They have more fulfilling relationships with a smaller organization than they would at an organization where their gift was

[00:47:07.88] spk_0:
not in their communities. They, you know, they feel closer to it.

[00:47:14.38] spk_1:
Okay. Alright then. Um, why don’t you leave us with some final thoughts please?

[00:47:54.88] spk_0:
Well, just remember about the leaky bucket. You know, it’s a, we all grew up with that song. There’s a hole in the bucket, realize a dear Liza. So just remember you are not going to let your bucket leak. You’re gonna make every effort you can to get those the donor who’s gonna fall through the cracks, Give him as much attention as I say lavish movie cultivation, whatever tactics you can think of. Whatever relationship building and getting to know you uh, thoughts and strategies that you can come up with, have a plan, learn about them and let them learn about you.

[00:48:16.47] spk_1:
Excellent. I’m gonna look, I’m going to remind myself uh refresh my memory about there’s a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza what do we do something like? What do we do? All right, thank you. Hernan Prasad founder and president Prasad consulting and research. The company is at prasad consulting dot com and she is at Prasad C Thank you very much. Program.

[00:48:24.37] spk_0:
Thank you Tory pleasure to talk to you.

[00:48:27.07] spk_1:
My pleasure as well.

[00:48:30.77] spk_2:
Next week engaged

[00:48:31.62] spk_3:
boards will

[00:48:32.58] spk_2:
fundraise with Michael Davidson and brian

[00:48:55.77] spk_1:
Saber from asking matters if you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Mhm. Our creative producer

[00:49:26.17] spk_4:
is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty you with me next week for nonprofit radio Big Donald. profit ideas for the over 95% go out and be great. Mhm

Nonprofit Radio for Nov. 19, 2010: Bountiful Bequests & Thrift Shops Ops

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Compliance. Board relations. Fundraising. Technology. Volunteer management. Accounting. Finance. Marketing. Social media. Investments.

Every nonprofit faces these issues and big nonprofits have experts in each. Small and medium size nonprofits have Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts throughout the country join Tony to take on the tough issues facing your organization.

Episode 17 of Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio for November 19, 2010

Tony’s Guests:

Susan DameGreene, President of BIPS. BIPS is an easy-to-use program that proactively manages the entire process of planned giving from stewarding and projecting future Planned Gifts to collecting realized Planned Gifts.

Topic: Bountiful Bequests: Why you should start a Planned Giving program with bequests–and how to do it.

Shevawn Weber, Manager, of Aspire.

Topic: Thrift Shops Ops: Should your nonprofit have a thrift shop as a source of revenue? How do you get started?
 

Here is the link to the podcast: 019: Bountiful Bequests & Thrift Shop Ops

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Friday, 1-2pm Eastern.

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choosing.

Sign-up for show alerts!

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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host tony martignetti last week, we fired-up you’re bored fund-raising that was with author and authority gail perry, and she revealed proven techniques to motivate your board to step up to their fund-raising responsibilities. That was for the full hour this week, bountiful bequests why you should start a plan giving program with requests and how to do so my guest will be susan dame green, and then we’ll be talking about thrift shop ops should your non-profit have a thrift shop as a potential source of revenue. And what are the implications of doing that? And how do you get started? My guest for that segment will be shevawn weber between the guests on tony’s, take two at thirty two minutes after the hour. Talk to all of your plans e-giving prospects not only the men sexism, i think it’s hurting some of our planned giving prospecting moron about that on tony’s take two, we’re headed to a break, and after this break, i’ll be joined by susan dame green and we’re going to talk about bountiful bequests stay with me? E-giving didn’t think tooting, getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get a drink. E-giving you could are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with i catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Durney bonem welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio where were always about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i guess now is susan dame green, and we’re going to be talking about bountiful bequests. Why you should start a plan giving program with requests and how to do it. Susan is the president of beeps bee i p s you’ll find them at bib stre dot com and she’s joining us by phone from salem, massachusetts. Susan has worked in plan giving for roughly twenty, set for twenty seven years, having worked at the american red cross st jude’s, children’s hospital and child reach, where she helped the canadian and japanese affiliates start planned giving programs a lot of experience in plan giving, and i’m very glad that her practice brings her to the show. Susan welcome from salem, massachusetts. Oh, thankyou, tony. I’m very glad to be a pleasure that it’s a pleasure to have you on let’s. Start with something that has related to your name. When i first saw your name, i thought she must be english royalty. That’s an english title. Just explain to people it’s i know it’s not in english title. Explained why that is well, years ago, when i got to be single, i decided i was going to go back to my maiden name, which was dame, but that wasn’t such a good name for a professional woman, and so i decided my middle name is antionette i would go to my grandmother’s last name, which was green, but g at age forty two wasn’t any good, so i decided to get rid of the ai into dame green, so i made my name legally named green in nineteen eighty nine. All right, well, your nobility on this show. Oh, thank you. My pleasure. Why should a non-profit start a plan giving program with requests? Well, i’ve been doing playing, giving twenty seven years, so i’ve kind of been around the block a few times in what i’ve seen is that ninety? Well, i’d say eighty to eighty five percent of the gifts come in as simple bequest. Everybody wants you to start with all the complicated things, but the reality is, most of the money comes from request and it’s a simple thing that’s when we’re talking just about planned gift, you mean that eighty to eighty five? Percent of plan r request. Ok, ok. And do we do we have a sense of how many people have been including non-profits in their will with a charitable request over history? Well, according to giving us they it probably about seven billion dollars this year. So a lot of people are beginning to include playing gift requests in their wills and plan giving is getting to be more and more popular. When i started in plan giving, there were very few people doing it. And now it’s everywhere and so it’s a great time for people to hop on board, even small institutions because everybody else has been doing all the advertising, you can take advantage of what they’ve been doing and simply ask your donors for gift. Not that hard and that’s also a motivation to be doing it because your competitors are that’s, right? Everybody else is doing it in the statistics that my boss used to show me at red cross, i used to be the director plan giving at the american national red cross, and we supported in train twenty, eight hundred chapters. He could document his eighteen years that people equals or exceeded their lifetime, given with their death gift, so it’s very important to start asking you donors for that gift because that’s a very good way that you could not only keep them tied to you, but end up with a lot of money from them, and i typically don’t counsel people to do things just because lots of others are because there are lots of mistakes being made in fund-raising but i think i think this case is an exception to that. I do think that the the enormity of of non-profits asking is an indication that other non-profits that aren’t ought to be i agree with that anybody can start a plane giving program, and so how do you know when you’re ready? We’ll it’s that simple? How do you know when you’re non-profits ready? Well, now i have a slightly different approach than other people do. And remember, i based it on the years experience that i have, but i think anybody can start a plane giving program. If you have a group of donors that you can ask, you could send them very simple, ask wetter and i’ve sent you a sample of that, and i think you’re going to be putting it on your website, right? Yes. There’s going to be ah, what that’s the sample ask letter or consideration letter. Is that right, susan? Yes. And listeners will find that file on my block on the same post that has today’s show. There’ll be a linked to susan’s resource material, including including that. Go ahead, susan. How do you know when you’re ready? We’ll do. What you can do is you can start looking at your donor base if you can afford it. And the donor base is small. I send a letter once a year to its many of the donor basis you can afford. Concentrate on the sixty five and over. The reason is this is a business. Like any other business. You’re going to get a result much sooner. I’m sixty two. I’m much more like who could die then you, tony. You’re in your forties, right late. But yes. Still, i’m still in authorities. I got a couple more years. Yes, thank you. So, that’s, what you want to do? You want to concentrate on people who are going to give you a result for the money that you put into it. And it’s a very simple thing to dio i’d also start with slogan, and i put the spoken everywhere a really simple one that many, many people used to leave a lasting legacy remember the sergeant society in your will or a state plan any kind of slogan that you like, but include the correct legal name of your institution? Susan, before we get too far into how how to do this, i wantto, uh, i ask you about something that you said start with people who are roughly sixty five and over. There has been some publicity within the past year about making suggestions that non-profits asked people in their azaleas their thirties, about including a non-profit in there will what’s your what’s your opinion of that? Well, it’s like everything else, i think you’re going to get a better result from the people who are older there at that time in our life, when they’re thinking about a will and there thinking off there in the conservation and distribution years sixty five and honor the conservation and distribution years. There’s four financial stages of life, one when you’re a kid and you have no control over your old money except your wow and then once you graduated from high school or college, and you’re in charge of your money, but the bills come in so that’s your your high earning years but it’s also your high out years and then fifty five to sixty five that’s your accumulation years that’s the year’s most people accumulate money towards the retirement that’s the years the kids are out of college and their house is paid for, and you’re pretty well settled in your career. So sixty five and over is where people are conserving their money and thinking about distributed so if you talk to people when they’re interested in it, that’s where you’re going to get the best results, yes, and also at that age and, you know, we just have about thirty seconds left before our first break. Also, around that age, they’re thinking about using their estate to teo to distribute to charity that’s, right? There’s thinking about ways of making a difference in the world through their money because they’re no longer physically able to do that, and they still care. Most of our donors still care very much about what happens to the world after this break. Susan damegreene will stay with us. Our subject is bountiful bequests. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com i really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w dot mind over matter. Y si dot com. Buy-in is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom at to one to nine six four three five zero two. We make people happy. Xero talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back with my guest, susan dame greene, the president of tipps llc, susan, before the break, we were just talking about the conservation distribution years and and our older citizens using their estate plan as a way of giving back that’s right? That’s, right? Our donors like to give back during their lifetime, and then when they get into the conservation and distribution years they’re thinking about conserving what they have and how they want to distribute. It will be questioned and wait wait for them to go. Also, if you’re encouraging bequests among people who are so much younger in their thirties and even forties, aren’t there philanthropic interests likely to change not only before their death think interests are going to change, but their whole life is going to change dramatically? They don’t think so now, but it’s all good and involved in ways they couldn’t even think of and the chances of you still being in the will later on her fairly small plus do you want to wait forty, fifty, sixty years for the gift to come in? All right, so we know why it’s important to start with requests. And your advice is that any organization can do it as long as they have donors who love their mission right, who are sixty five and over that’s, right? How should non-profits get started with this? If they have the money and they have the the number of donors, they could do a computerized sort of the file and find the people over sixty five if they don’t, they can go through the files. They’re small organization taking go through the file and they know a lot of their donors and send a very simple letters to the donors asking them for bequest. Once a year on dh, that letter will have on my blogged we’ll have ah, template letter that you khun you can use from courtesy of susan. Thank you, it’s. A simple peer-to-peer ask and that’s all they really need to dio once they do that and they get a response. Then they put them into a system like an excel spreadsheet and keep track of them and then stay in touch with them. What about the will get to how to stay in touch and howto say thank you appropriately. And how often? What about the? The organization that has a larger number of donors, but they don’t have a date of birth. They don’t. They don’t know their ages. Maybe they do have thousands of donors, but age is not something that they’re very ever captured. Well, they can hire a vendor who will do an age overlay of their files for them. They may not be able to give the exact date of birth, but they can give them a minimum of a year of date of birth, depending on how many donors air on the file. Or they could do research themselves and find out what the ages of the donors are. When i was a child, reach what i used to do with the major donors that they called each one up and tell them you make the times in our life possible by the gifts you give us. We’d like to celebrate the time of your life with you. Will you tell me your birthday’s going on in your birthday card? That’s? Terrific it’s, very sweet, actually. And it’s a very simple way. And i got turned down one out of five thousand because they all want to have a first date arika and so it was it was easy, and it made them feel included, and it made them feel happy about it. So there’s a lot of ways you could do it that air noninvasive if you have a small list or if you have enough staff in the time, yes, that would probably be a good project for an intern or maybe a volunteer to do absolutely someone who loves the organization. People, i think love to get phone calls that are just thank you and a little more, you know, would you would you share your birthday or something like that versus thank you? And we’re asking again this year. We’re not talking about that, but but i think to get that live call right now, it sounds like it would be endearing. The live college very important. As a matter of fact, we were talking about howto thank them once they’ve named you in the document. It’s really important, i think, to do with three pronged thank at st jude children’s research hospital we used to do, uh, thank you. Call and someone from our office would call and say thank you. And it was usually a violent here and then. We’d have one of the board members call and say thank you, and we send them out a down thomas society’s certificate, either with one of our fifteen reps in the field. Or we’d invite them to a luncheon where we present this certificate. So they really felt thing. How about some other ways, though, that we can be encouraging this? So you suggested a pithy tagline way have the peer-to-peer ask letter. What are some other ways that a smaller midsize non-profit which are the ones that i know you work mostly with, not exclusive and you work with some big organizations to yeah, but how else can can the smaller shops get the word out? Well, they want to let people know that they accept requests. And by putting that tagline everywhere, people will start to know that you are interested in and accept requests. The biggest problem is people are dying to give to you, but they die before you get to ask them. So, yeah, i put it on the back of every piece of every envelope, every piece of stationary on the bottom of every page on the website, on every board report, every single minute every kapin newsletter every single page is the newsletter just so people start getting the idea boardmember it’s, you mentioned that’s interesting. Oh, absolutely, you should be asking your entire board as a matter of fact, you should get the entire board to commit, because that really shows other people that the board is interested and committed and wants this place to continue after they’re gone. And, of course, that’s the kind of doughnut you want. You want the donor that wants a place to continue after you’re gone, and so your your objective would be one hundred percent of the board has the organization in there will one hundred percent, and you don’t have to ask the amount. Tell the board members that up front it depends on the organization, but most organizations don’t ask the amount you can after they’ve been a donor for a while, but just to get them on board, simply say, please include us in your will no leave a lasting legacy. Remember the sergeant society into willard’s state plan all right, and for the fresh air fund or whatever the name of your organization is your advice, then is in all these places that you you mentioned the back of envelopes and board minutes and all your newsletters and correspondents that you’re using. What? Just thie that simple tagline, that simple tagline everywhere with the correct legal name of your non-profit it can be very effective and then start the the regular program of mailing two people as well as you probably wanna have articles. If you have a new sweater, you want to have an article in your newsletter features someone who has given a gift and is interested in excited about the organization and wants to talk about it. So that’s consistent with your peer-to-peer ask letter, right? You want to profile people who have already done this that’s, right? So people that it’s possible and it’s painless. Really? And what? Well, let me ask. I want to open it up. Are there other ways that you should be? People should be communicating this. What about what about their their individual meetings with just having one on one lunches and things? People? Yes. It’s. A very easy thing to do. What happens with plan giving is you’re building a relationship. And now i was on cape cod doing a speech. For the plane giving council of cape cod, and i was talking with dominic. He and his wife have been married for forty years, and i said to him, well, you know, how did how did you start dating her? Oh, well, you know, i asked her out, and we dated for about four years before we got married. I said, if you had proposed on the first date, what would she have said? And he said, oh, my goodness, i don’t know, but by the four years was up, we both know we want to get married. I said it’s the same thing with the donors, you build a relationship, but the best part is with the donors, you can skip the kissing stuff except with some of the little old lady, so want to kiss you on the cheek anyway, but when you’re having these face-to-face conversations, a lot of people are intimidated by the subject because they feel they’re talking about the donor’s death, and so they’re they’re reluctant toe raise it in a face to face conversation. Well, the reality is, quite a few donors will tell you once you start developing a relationship with them. And you can bring it up remember that the reluctance of the plan giving officer it’s not how the donor is feeling donor’s know that they’re old. They know they’re going to die it’s not a secret, their sister or their cousin there uncle there, father, their mother, their husband has died, and so they’re in that planning stage of life. I don’t know if you have kids, tony, but i bet a lot of your listeners dio and when you were potty training, those kids that’s all you talked about and now these donors air in the stage of life where they’re looking at conserving and distributing their assets. They’re all talking about this to one another so it’s only normal for you to talk to them about it so older americans are ready to ready to have that conversation. The reluctance is on the is on the fundraiser side that’s, right? That’s, right? I’ve been before i’ve been playing giving twenty seven years, and before that, i was a trust vice president for eleven years, and i dealt with over four hundred states year personally. And let me tell you, those donors know what’s going on they know. That they’re going to die, they know that they need to make this plant and they are, and they’re very willing to talk about it. I can’t tell you how many of them say to me, my daughter won’t talk to me about the fact that i’m dying. This is the biggest thing that’s happened in my life when you talk to me about it. So those playing, giving officers, we need to get over that we need to get on with the business and you’re not talking about the person’s death, right? What what you’re talking about is how their estate can benefit this organization that we know they all that way. No, they already love that’s, right? And you can talk more in instead of talking about when you died, talk about in you will let put in something or think about putting in something that will continue this work that you’re so interested in. I know you’re interested in helping all these young people learn about graphics and, you know, we can do that kind of program that you’re doing now, and we can do it with a gift in your will if you and down your annual gift of five thousand dollars and let’s, figure out the amount that program can continue in perpetuity. How would you like to see that happen so you could make it a really positive, upbeat experience, because to them it is the positive, upbeat experience they’re very interested in things involving and continuing after they go, they’re interested in making a difference in the world. Yes, the conversation is not about death, it’s, about the continuation of the organization that they love, right? You said it better than i did. I’m sorry, i’m just, i think, it’s, so important, i guess, that’s. Why i’m repeating it. How do you ah, how do you open that conversation? Are there? What? What advice do you have? Just how do you get into the subject? We’re in a face to face meeting. Well, i don’t do it. The first meeting, the first one, i go out there and i thank them. And i talk about the organization a little bit. But then i say to them, tell me how you first got interested in the fresh air fund and there are twenty five minutes later. My goodness, can i get a word in edgewise here? Because they love you because they’re people are already loved the organization. We know that as you said, you’re not you’re not asking on the first date about including the organization there will but you know you, they already love you. So? So your advice is sort of let’s. Bring that passion to the surface, right? Let’s get them thinking about it that’s, right? And once they start thinking about it, ninety percent of the time, i don’t have to ask them. They help me, so it makes it very, very simple because you get them thinking about what they’ve accomplished in their lifetime. And most of our donors are pretty happy people they’ve accomplished what they’ve accomplished, their fairly well settled in their lives, they have the time, they want to talk to you and they love your organization. And i’d say a hundred percent of them know more about our organizations that we do. My guest is susan history that you never even knew was there? Yes, right? Because they know the organization longer than you. That’s, right, that’s, right. My guest is susan damegreene and she’s, the president of dips b i p s that’s bravo, india. Papa sierra, if you were in the military and you’ll find vips at victor dot com on. We’re talking about bountiful bequests. Susan, after someone tells you that they have included you. Well, you alluded to this. What do you recommend asking for documentation? Proof of the bequest? Well, the first thing i do after they tell me if they send them a thank you letter and i invite them to become member of the seaquest society. Now, whatever the name of your organization, you can use that same name. But many people pick something that’s meaningful for the name of the bequest society. So once they remember that the quest society then i started inviting them to luncheons and making sure that i stay in contact with them on a regular basis. When i was at st jude, i did a study of fifteen years worth of planned gift collection records. We found out that people who were who had named us and we thank them appropriately we got double the amount of money from that group that we got from the people who didn’t get thanked for one reason or the other. We also found out right now, i just i’m sorry, but in that research, that was that was outright giving you get planned gift was planned. Gift result. Fifteen years was a planned gift who had died and left us money. We found out because the program had gone on for quite a while before i got there. And so i did a study of fifteen years with the collection records, and we found out people who had named us in a document and were appropriately thanked. And we did that three pronged. Thank i talked about earlier, they doubled their gift. We got twice as much money from the people who would thank that the people who work thing. And then i had fifteen people in the field of st jude. So it was easy for me to send the plan e-giving rap about to talk to them. People who wanted to be part of the st jude family we could document. They gave three to four times as much as the control group. So it really pays to cultivate these people and treat them like family because they are, because without them, we couldn’t do the work that we do. What about that? We just have about two minutes left. But what about that documentation? Do you do you advise that? Non-profits asked for proof. Can i have a copy of the will or copy the bequest paragraph? Well, that’s all over the map. That depends on the area of the country and the way people feel about it. It’s getting to be more common that people will ask and the way we used to do it, to be a little bit more subtle than the give me a copy of the will was we would send out a optional questionnaire and it with a business reply envelope. Everything has to go with a business reply envelope because you remember you’re talking about people’s money and it’s fairly secure, and they wanted to be a secret. They don’t want other people, so don’t so don’t send ah self mailer postcard back that says that has check off that say, i have included you in my will or i would consider including you, it’s got to be in a secure envelope. Yes, in a business report, and we sent a survey out and we’d say optional. We put it in there, how did you get interested in and our non-profit you know, how did you get interested in child reaches that one that i use? And then we asked a bunch of questions, and then the second page would say optional on it and say, tell us about your gift, and then we’d asked a bunch of different questions about the gift, and some people would fill the whole thing in, and some people wouldn’t, but we got about a forty percent response, which was fabulous that we did do call up after we send it out to follow up, make sure they got it and ask if they felt comfortable filling it in and answer any questions they had about it, but we were able to actually document now i know diane thomas, that university of st thomas in texas is a customer of ours, and she uses a different form and several universities in texas actually do. Have you signed a pledge certification that is the legal form that tell exactly what you’re leaving? So my way of doing it is one way, but everybody does it anyway, okay, so it’s really sort of around the map, it’s what you’re comfortable with and what you’re what you’re part of the country will will tolerate. I guess now you’ll notice, i don’t know if you noticed, but the actors fund of new york is one of my clients and wally monroe there uses the edwin forrest society to propagate hiss and ask people what they’re gift is, and that has worked very well for him. Okay, susan, we have to leave it there. That’s, that’s all the time we have you’re quite welcome. Thank you for joining us. My guest has been susan dame greene, the president of dips llc. She joined us by phone from salem, massachusetts. Susan, thank you again think we’re going to take a break, and after this break, i’ll be joined by shevawn weber. We’re going to talk about thrift shops, ops. Stay with me. E-giving didn’t think tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. E-giving cubine are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting, you’re listening to talking on their network at www dot talking alt-right dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Welcome back on the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio and very shortly, i’ll be joined by shevawn weber will be talking about thrift shop operations first aa few minutes to take for tony’s take two sexism has been bothering me it’s on my mind, i posted a blogged posted a block post about that last week, and you’ll find my blogging m p g a d v dot com ii was asking whether sexism still exists for professional women, and the answer i got from a very good number of comments was a resounding yes and that’s distressing. What i’d like to focus on right now, though, is that the impact of that sexism on fund-raising one of the comments related to planned e-giving fund-raising very much what we were just talking about with with susan damegreene this woman was a professional fundraiser, and she and many of her friends also is not just her. I have talked to organizations about planned e-giving have expressed interest in including the organization in their will or their others a state plan in some way, either through explicit conversations are emails or just dropping hints, and the women are ignored just the suggestions are just left lingering and that’s very distressing and frustrating that actively interested prospects for planned gif ts and of course it would apply to any type of gift, but the woman who commented on my block was specifically talking about planned e-giving being left open, conversations not pursued and her sense and i agree, is that it’s? Because she’s, a woman and her friends are women, that if they were men, their enquiries and interest in planned e-giving would be taken more seriously. That has, you know, societal impacts, and it also has ah, direct fund-raising impact. So i hope that you are not among the people men who are marginalizing or ignoring your female planned e-giving prospects because that’s just antithetical to what fund-raising is all about and everything that susan damegreene just talked about. And again, there’s more about this topic on my blogging mpg a devi dot com and that’s tony’s take two for friday, november nineteen my guest now is shevawn weber she’s, the manager of thrift shop, the matter of the thrift shop for a spire on broadway in melrose park, illinois, which is a chicago suburban she’s joining us by phone from melrose park susan has managed small businesses, including non-profit thrift shops over the past thirty years. You can follow shevawn on twitter. Her idea there is thrift ing the number four. Good and i’m very pleased that her work for a spire on broadway brings her to the show. Today shevawn welcome. Hi, tony. Thank you for having me. It’s. A pleasure. Tell me. Tell us about a spire on broadway. What’s the work that’s done. Their fire on broadway has been in operation for thirty five years. It was started by a parent dahna shevawn. Can i just ask you, could you speak a little bit louder? Maybe move the phone a lot closer to you, herr to your mouth. Thankyou. Hyre on broadway was started by a small group of parents of children with developmental disabilities. About thirty five years ago. Um, i was hired to manage the store that lacked leadership, and i’ve been with aspire for thirteen years. And what type of donor base does aspire have? We have very large in-kind gift donors. Hoexter tends south to indiana to the east, lake michigan to the west, very far western suburbs and we have done pickups. As far north as lake geneva and that obviously those those in-kind gifts obviously supporting the thrift shop. Yeah, what about the larger donors face to do a spiral? What does their fund-raising look like more broadly beyond the in-kind gif ts to the agency, right? I really can’t speak to those. Okay, your expertise is in the thrift shop. Ok? That’s that’s what we’ll talk about. What does the revenue of the thrift shop look like? We bring in approximately a quarter of a million dollars per year in sales. And do you have a sense of how that ranks among thrift shops? I don’t know. Okay, are there other thrift shops? That air non-profit thrift shops in the community where the spire on broadway thrift shop is? There is one other store in our community. There are several in the neighboring communities, however. And is that an issue for non-profits that are thinking about starting a thrift shop wood with the location of others in the vicinity be important for them to think about. It is important to an extent. Drifters like to venture out and go to many thrift stores. Oh, interesting in one trip. So really? Ah, a congregation of thrift stores in a small area is desirable. Okay, so having a few in one area and you say thrift er’s so tell us a little more about thrift er’s they’re they’re your customers tell us little more about what the customers to the thrift shop look like. Directors our full range of people, we’ve got dealers, antique dealers from the city of chicago who come in and make a large purchase is the furniture to resell in their stores. And then we have families in need who come in and buy everything that they need for their households. So the the antique dealers, that could be another source of revenue that non-profit might not be thinking about initially, but it could be a good source of revenue. Absolutely. What else should ah non-profit have in mind or need let’s put it this way. What they need to have in place before they can really be serious about opening a thrift shop. I think organizations need a solid core volunteers to support the effort of a thrift store. This is the biggest challenge for thrift shop trend and voluntary has moved toward corporate group group with fewer ongoing volunteers. And because training is so time intensive, ongoing volunteers are crucial to the efficient see. So having agood corps of volunteers before you open a threat store, i think is a mandatory. And so is all your labor volunteer and none of it paid except for you. Or is there a mix? No there’s, the mix we do have paid cashier’s and paid movers who go out and pick up furniture for us. But the volunteers are critical to it. Absolutely. We could not be in business without them. Okay, aside from this kadre of committed volunteers, what? What else does the non-profit need to be thinking about? If if they’re considering doing this? Well, they have to think about investment costs, you know? Do they have the administrative and financial resources to support the startup? Can they float the organization during bad sales month? You know, rent utilities are easy to determine, but other costs that they might. You need to consider our building space modifications, women and supplies budget for advertising or marketing consultation. And the volunteers are strong in numbers. Possible paid staff, right insurance. You’re going to have a physical location. So there’s a license to practice. Oh, right. That’s it. Yeah, the state licensing. Or maybe even city licensing, right? So we need volunteers on dh. Some money and including you mentioned something interesting to floating the floating the organization when sales or lean right. Well, what else? Well, we need don’t we need? How about those in-kind donors? I mean, they’re critical right there, critical, and we have found that with a hand written thank you note, teo each donor every time they bring him a donation results and repeat donations. So, you mean you get their address and you mail them handwritten note? Is that what you do? And you’ve shown over time that that that donors who get those versus those who don’t are more likely to come back there? And what about estates? Is that a very big donor population for you? It’s about twenty five percent of our total sales each year we go and pack an entire home and bring it back to the store, and it we have a very large truck and it’s crucial to our revenue. Yeah, well, actually, and and that truck brings up other expense issues insurance we mention sure it’s, but insurance on on vehicles if you’re going to go picking up, which makes it a lot easier is you’re suggesting teo to get those big loads on and then there’s people driving it does you mentioned but there’s maintenance on trucks and gas. And you know all the expenses of that. Also. The how do you market the thrift shop specifically to the states had how do you get known in that state community that is basically word of mouth? Once you have successfully completed a pickup for someone who conducting the state, sales were travels fast? Not too many non-profit thrift stores are providing that service. Oh, really? No on dh. What? What made you decide to get into it? Well, actually have a friend on the north shore who conducts the state sales and she’s been very good to aspire, so i had that initial connection. What about auctioneers? Is that a potential market for you? We haven’t considered that that’s something we may i want to take a look at, okay? Yeah, i was just thinking. If there are auction items that aren’t sold, might they be interested in donating that that’s a very good point. Okay, let’s focus on the donor’s a little more because they’re so critical to the organization that’s thinking about doing this again, that’s our, you know, that’s our perspective, an organization that isn’t doing it but might consider a thrift shop. How do you get the donors to know about ur give to you versus that other thrift shop that you said is not too far away? Well, i think families and friends of aspire, our primary source of donations for the thrift store and through word of mouth that spreads to neighbours and beyond communities. I’m not sure how other thrift stores go about obtaining in-kind for their stores. But for us, it’s spent mostly word of mouth. Do you have money allocated for advertising that very much. Okay, and a little bit you do have. Then what community do you advertise to? Is that for the customers versus the donors? Pretty much we advertise on the brick shepherd dot com and we have a little bit on a spider’s web site. But other than now and twitter, okay, you know, but nothing on an ongoing basis in just a minute or so we have before the break. What about the volunteer training? That’s? That’s going to be important, isn’t it? How do you? How do you train the volunteers? And what do you train them on? Well, you first orient saved them to the building and to the organization. In the mission, and then it’s, just finding out what is a good fit for a volunteer, what would they like to do here? Do they want to interact with customers? Are they creative and are good at merchandising? Or do they want to be behind the scenes and sort through during donations, tag, garments, steam, garments and so on? And is the individual training for each of those tasks, or, or is it more on the job? Initially, i’m training them on the job, and then they are assigned a buddy, and the body kind of makes them comfortable for that first day, and then i’m available for questions, and, you know, i check on their progress on different volunteers need different levels of, uh, motivation. Sure, for motivating. My guest is shevawn weber, manager of the thrift shop for a spire on broadway in melrose park, illinois. We have to take a break. Please stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. 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Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Talking. Dahna welcome back. I’m with shevawn weber, and we’re talking about thrift shops and whether that makes sense for your organization. And if you think it might what factors you should have in mind. Shevawn you do some interesting things with other revenue sources, and we talked about the antiques dealers before we look at the others. Is there anything more you want to say about how you i got into bringing them into your shop? How that worked out thie antiques dealers. No, they really basically found us. Okay, you opened your door on dh. They started coming to you. They pretty much on dh. Why would you divert things to them rather than sell them in your store? Well, they were on the floor. They’ll they were there hyre and items, you know, maybe several hundred dollars piece of furniture that they could then return, return to their shop and resell to an interior decorator for even traitor a mountain. So they really dealers speak out a product through thrift stores. And and it sounds like and it’s a product that the average thrift er is not going to buy. That’s. True. Yeah. So when when these possible pieces that could be right for for the antiques dealers come to you, do you do you offer them for sale for sometime? And you have a policy about making them available on the floor before you give them to the antiques dealer. Or do you just go right to the dealer? No, they’re right up there on the floor, available to the public. And if they happen to be there when the dealers come in, then they make a purchase. Oh, you’re not holding things aside for antiques dealers. And why is that? Is that a firm policy? I guess so. Why is that? I just think, it’s ethical to make it available to everyone rather than diverted just for the dealers. Ok, otherwise you’re back room becomes holding tanks for dealers. And i just don’t think that fair. Yeah. Okay. Um, you also do some selling on ebay. Tell us about that as a potential source that people might not source of revenue that people might not be thinking about. Yeah, we sell any bay. We felt items that would appeal to a niche market. Like high school yearbooks. For example, there are average customer here on the resale shop is not interested in those, but they are, well, fire on ebay. Really? We do. We do about twelve thousand dollars a year in sales on ebay, and it is volunteer driven and it’s. Really fun. We have some fabulous finds on there, and our user name is support spire and high school yearbooks. That’s interesting. So people don’t hate high school yearbooks to you. And then i mean, unless you went to that high school or in that year, they’re of no interest, but on ebay, where there’s a national or into a new international audience, then there’s a market right? Interesting. What else do you divert to ebay that listeners might be interested in? Oh, gosh, way, fashion’s collectible books, original art, a stage jewellery, you know, all kinds of vintage toys and games, everything, well, certain ditches, you said, nitch items. And do you have the same policy about about making things available on the floor? If you think they might be right for ebay or no, just divert them directly to the ebay person who’s. The volunteers handling that right here, sort through donations for things she think well, succeed on ebay, and then if we live that item and it doesn’t sell, then it goes to the sales floor, okay. So there are some other sources of revenue besides people who just who? The sisters who come in true and also we so any fabric requirements that we can’t use here to a rag picture. So there’s no way. Oh, actually not putting clothing in the dumpster and it’s another revenue source. Right. Interesting. Okay, um, susan, just in the thirty seconds or so that we have left, why is the thrift shop important to aspire on broadway? Why do they have one? We have a thrift store to bring in revenue. A fire on broadway provide greater visibility for the agency in our community. You know, it’s connect donors. Sometimes a backdoor donor at the drugstore can’t be an entry point into a bigger relationship with the organization. Excellent. Yes. Okay. Those air, those were all important revenue and prospect generation. Too interested. We have to leave it there. My guest has been shevawn weber one. Thank you very much for joining me, shevawn. Thank you. Tony shevawn is the manager of fifth shop of the thrift shop for a spire on broadway in melrose park, illinois. And of course, also, i want to thank susan dame green for joining me earlier next week no show happy thanksgiving there won’t be a show next friday, the day after thanksgiving, on friday, december third, the second part of how to kill your career in five easy steps that’s the second half of my interview with robert sharp from the national conference on philanthropic planning and another interview from that conference tax policy and the future of philanthropic planning, a washington, d c attorney for non-profits and a lobbyist for non-profits we’ll talk about what’s likely to happen legislatively in washington and how that affects your organization’s bottom line. Those guests are emily lamb and perry wasserman, and again, they were also recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning. Ah, i’ll be out in the next two weeks after thanksgiving in bangladesh, sir lanka and thailand and of course, at the end of the friday december third show, i’ll tell you, what’s coming up on the tenth, you could get our insider alerts and see my live appearances on our facebook page that’s facebook, dot com tony martignetti non-profit radio, the creative producer of the show is claire meyerhoff line producer and owner of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz. And our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. On tony martignetti. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. Join me. Not next friday. But friday, december third, right here, on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Durney i didn’t think that shooting good ending things. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? 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Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking.