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Nonprofit Radio for May 29, 2020: Fundraising 401

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Laurence Pagnoni: Fundraising 401
That’s Laurence Pagnoni’s latest book. It’s a series of masterclasses for all levels and a collection of revelations he’s gained over 35 years in nonprofit management and fundraising. That’s Laurence Pagnoni’s latest book. It’s a series of masterclasses for all levels and a collection of revelations he’s gained over 35 years in nonprofit management and fundraising.

 

 

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[00:01:53.32] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d go into Borba Rig mus if you upset my stomach with the idea that you missed today’s show. Fundraising for 01 That’s Lawrence Paige non EA’s latest book. It’s a series of master classes for all levels and a collection of revelations he’s gained over 35 years in non profit management and fundraising. Tony Stick, You planning for reopening were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by Cougar Math and Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant er mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. It’s a real pleasure to welcome back Lawrence Pack tony Teoh non profit radio. He is chairman of Lap A fundraising serving non profits throughout the world, roughly 25 clients at a time. He’s got 35 years in the sector as executive director and fundraising council, his latest book published this year is fundraising for, 01 master classes in non profit fundraising That would make Peter Drucker proud. The company is at lap of fundraising dot com and at lap of fundraising. Welcome lap. If the firm was lapper your lab, right,

[00:02:00.79] spk_0:
we tripped upon the acronym years and years ago. We always use the full Lawrence Ape Agnone Associates. And

[00:02:07.26] spk_1:
as I remember,

[00:02:08.24] spk_0:
one day, we just had written lap on this and that had good alliteration. We should use that.

[00:02:18.28] spk_1:
Okay, you went the way of ah, of, um, Triple A and ah, and AARP. You know, they don’t You’re not, You know, Lawrence, tape Agnone Associates anymore. Your lap. That’s right. Okay, it’s the It’s the 21st century now. Alright.

[00:02:38.44] spk_0:
But there’s also a mini lesson there for non profits about, uh, branding. Um, trying to get it right at the beginning is important, but good. The difference between good branding and great branding is the width of the Grand Canyon. Um and so I didn’t ever want to venture into rebranding it without great council, which I’ve never been able to afford.

[00:03:29.74] spk_1:
So you stumbled on lap and we evolved, you know, you? Yes, it’s proof that the greatness doesn’t come out in the beginning. You can’t plan all the greatness in the beginning. It has to as to organically come about. So it’s been like 6.5 years. You were on the, uh, your for your first book, the non profit fundraising solution. You are on non profit radio on November 8th, 2013. Wow, when that book was new, seven years ago on dhe. Now, your second, um so let’s let’s get into it. Uh, why does, uh, what is management consultant Peter Drucker belong in the title?

[00:05:16.64] spk_0:
Ah, Homage to Peter Drucker taught me how to think. Ah, well, I guess the Jesuits would take the first bow for that. But Peter Drucker, Um, I was a Peter Drucker fellow in the 19 nineties here in New York City. And it was Peter who taught me how to integrate fundraising into organizational development. Besides just being a great part human being, he was a brilliant strategist and thinker. He of course, wrote the original bulk on reengineering General Motors, and but he spent the last years of his life focused on the what he called the higher profit sector what we call the nonprofit sector. But he, uh he thought that if there wasn’t a coalescing off the non profit sectors values with the business sector, that society would be deficient for for that not happening. So, um, actually, when I started writing this book, um, I didn’t realize the degree to which drug Harry and thinking had Dominy eat it. My own thinking. And it was about a dozen chapters in that my editor said you use Drucker an awful lot. I said, tell me how many times? And then I was, like, astounded. And, um and then I I added that little no. Oh, my him

[00:05:23.14] spk_1:
And And Drucker had the book managing the non profit organization. Yeah. He was committed to the to the sector. To what he got what he called the higher profit. Is that what he called it? The higher profit

[00:05:31.64] spk_0:
profit Peter Drucker?

[00:05:33.28] spk_1:
There it is. And all right,

[00:05:48.29] spk_0:
I’m Crawford organization. It’s been on my desk since 19 91. I think, um, and I read and re read it as I hope you will do my book fund raising for a one coming forward.

[00:05:49.64] spk_1:
Yes. Ive replayed your show on the first book three times since 2013. So I have you, tony. It’s a go to for still is for people who asked me, How do I get the next level? I get that question every maybe a couple times a month. Maybe not that often sometimes, but I recommend the book for how to get to the next level. It’s a It’s a very systematic and sensible approach.

[00:06:27.36] spk_0:
The, uh, the fundraising, The nonprofit fundraising solution was the pros of fundraising. But fundraising for a one is really the poetry. It’s more the art of fundraising, whereas the other one was the science.

[00:06:31.39] spk_1:
Yeah, you say that and you talk about the art and science and one of your chapters. But you talk about growing into answers and moving to a better set of problems with both of which sound artistic talk about that growing into answers and better set of problems.

[00:08:00.24] spk_0:
Well, oftentimes, nonprofits What? There, there. Uh, there’s not enough room in scopes of service, you know, you hire a fundraiser to fundraise and you define a scope of service but a really advanced fundraising system. Once it gets going, it has to look carefully at what the owners are saying. What the institutional funders are saying, Ah, what is working in social media and what’s not for one of our large clients connected with Johns Hopkins University? They weren’t able to raise any money online. And he, um, change the way they approached social Media. And within the first year, they had an extra $100,000 from their social media program. Um, so figuring out as you go long, um, more efficient ways and building that creativity in is very important. And, um, um, and defining it too rigidly. Uh uh, shuts that down.

[00:09:16.36] spk_1:
I did like a better set of problems. No, you tell an anecdote. You, for some reason aboard, was getting involved in whether to buy a fax machine. Let’s not get into whether board should even be deciding whether by fax you. But, you know, you just went out and bought the damn thing yourself. Now the fax machines, not communicating with our donors back when facts that this was many years ago, not communicating with donors and our funders is not a problem, but so that that was for me, that was okay. Better set of problems Let’s not deal with the damn fax machine. I’ll buy it. And now let’s deal with communications. It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As. We received RP PP funding. Now what? That’s their latest recorded webinar. What about loan forgiveness? How do you get the max forgiven from your Pee Pee Pee loan? You need to apply for that. It’s not automatic forgiveness. Get the details from the C P, a firm we trust. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Click Resource is and recorded events. Now back to fundraising for 01

[00:10:33.97] spk_0:
But here’s a Here’s a more sophisticated, better set of problems. Let’s say right now you don’t know who you’re monthly donors are or your plan donors are, and you do research to figure out. Maybe a lot of nonprofits don’t know the date of birth of their donors. So let’s say you do research and you integrate just the date of birth into your donor database and you’re able to segment. Um, you know, suddenly you discover, as is the case with one of our clients on, I remember your rule about the difference between active and a passive plan giving program that they discovered they had 750 people over age 65. They were. They were not aware of that until they had their date of birth. And so now they have a better set of problems. They’re able to think about planned giving because they know they have a donor segment. That is ah, that matches that. So that is my definition of organizational growth, too. But a lot of of of us that we have the same problem over and over again, and that is being stuck. And I wrote this book to tease out ways to get unstuck, Um, and to try some new things within your thinking. First and foremost, this is a book about how to think about fundraising,

[00:10:45.37] spk_1:
a series of revelations, Syria’s revolution. So So we’ll talk about a bunch of them. You you talk about, uh, fundraising as, ah analogized Teoh. Dating, dating relationships. No, se little about that.

[00:13:19.24] spk_0:
Sure. So when two people meet, they have to learn what the other person’s up for. They have to learn their values, their mutual sexual attraction, their ability to work on and solve problems together. Now, absent the mutual sexual attraction, the same applies to getting to know your donors putting your donors first, uh, listening funders. Pushing back a little bit with your funders about what you’re really needs are having conversations that are thoughtful. And, um so, uh, getting to know the the revenue streams that you’re working through is just similar to dating, but without the sexual romantic energy listening, listening is critical and mentioned listening. And if you’re not sympathetic, simpatico if you’re not simpatico, um, like, uh, one donor who Who? I was trying to get a six figure gift from four teenage pregnancy prevention program. I’ve been telling this story for years. So pardoned, if you’ve heard it. But it was such a rich experience for me, you know, right early in the conversation, he said, You know, um, I don’t believe teen age should be having sex, and I just let the silence sit there. Of course, inside myself, I’m thinking, you know, e, I just lost the gift, but I just listened Ah, in a posture of tell me more. And then he said, I think honest peak, tony must two minutes must have passed. I really was starting to sweat a little bit, and then he said, but I that not chewy. And, uh, and the clients you serve need the kind of program that your agency is recommending. So let’s talk about how that would work. And so he was up for it, But he was starting from a place of his own, you know, position, but showing flexibility about thinking. So he was up for the dating relationship?

[00:13:26.44] spk_1:
Well, well, what may be the one night stand, but that you have that you have that story in the book. And he gay ended up giving $25,000 right? Because you were a good listener. So maybe that was a one time gift. So now,

[00:13:39.73] spk_0:
no, no, he gave for three years.

[00:13:53.54] spk_1:
I did. All right, All right. So it was a short term relationship. All right. All right. Um, our product, our product is impact. What’s that about?

[00:15:07.06] spk_0:
Well, too many people confuse that they’re giving to your non profit. You know, the bread for the world or partners and Hells or whatever the name of the non profit is, donors don’t give to your non profit. They give for the mission and the impact. And you have to be clear about, you know, with your gift will be ableto have more of an impact. Here’s the impact we’ve had. Here’s the aspirational impact that we’re looking for. Um, Bill, Sure, from share Our strength has been a real role model in the nonprofit sector. Ah, for talking about the rial overhead costs that we should be advocating before to really get the job done, He asked the provocative question, Um, if would you be satisfied if my overhead were 5%? But I didn’t feed All the hungry people came to me. Nurses. If it was 35% and I did feed them all, which would you prefer? And, ah, that that is a good question. And you could each agency could have their version of that, um, to talk about aspirational goals and, um, and and if because if you don’t define them, no one in no one else’s

[00:15:33.44] spk_1:
and you talk about the importance of measuring impact. Yeah, knowing what your return on investment is your r a y ah nde communicating, sharing that it’s it’s critical.

[00:17:02.98] spk_0:
Yes. So having not just an evaluation program that complies with the funders requirements as so many government contracts do, but having a new evaluation program that helps the staff make management decisions about what programs are working and what are not. When I was the non profit CEO of Harlem United for six years, our data showed us that are substance abuse case management program did okay, but what really kept people in sobriety was our pastoral counseling and pastoral care program. Because the clients it was it was nondenominational. It was a healing experience. And it had twice the amount of ah, of sobriety retention as our substance abuse counseling program did. If we hadn’t been looking at the data, we wouldn’t have known that. And so we took that news to religious oriented funders and hired three more pastoral counsellors and built a partnership with Hospital Chaplaincy Inc. Who trains pastoral counsellors. And, um, we have had, uh, we had a strong spike in sobriety amongst our clients. It was really quite beautiful. And it’s lasted for years,

[00:17:36.69] spk_1:
all from understanding what your data is revealing what your true impact is. Yeah. All right. You you mentioned staff were jumping around a little bit, but you you highlight that Ah used to think that clients should come first. But now you feel its staff should come first. Retention strategies, professional development. I don’t know if you mentioned mentoring, but that always comes up, you know, talk about investments and investments that are that need to be made in staff. And why you think staff is number one now,

[00:20:24.54] spk_0:
boy, if I come a long way as a as an advocate for the poor from being a teenager, Um, when I worked in a volunteer in a soup kitchen myself, thanks to my good old Teamster union dad, um, I never wavered from clients first, and, uh, but, um, it’s not that I’m saying clients take a back seat. I’m saying that if we make staff, primary clients will be better served ma staff retention that nonprofits is alarming. And worse yet, Ah, younger generations, um, leave the sector faster than our generation. Those of us in our fifties, they leave the sector faster. Um, because they have a bad experience with a board or the the poor. Compensation is not livable for their family. So but it’s not just about the conditions of employment. It’s also about is the non profit a learning environment A learning organization here at lap of fundraising we have just 1/2 a dozen shared values within our firm and professional development and advancement is, um is one of them, and we pay every year, every staff person has a professional development plan, right, and we pay for it. And, um, we’re happy to do it. Um, because people are staff will tell you. You know, we aspire whether we succeed at it completely, I don’t have to ask them, but we aspire to be a learning organization, not just learning on our accounts, but learning from best practices in the field and colleagues we bring colleagues in, um, we’re big into what’s called the any a gram in our workplace. It’s a it’s ah, it’s an emotional intelligence system for the workplace that that helps people understand how there are clients are viewing the world how they’re built. The India graham dot Any a gram institute dot or ge. I believe, um, would introduce you to it has some videos there,

[00:21:00.94] spk_1:
so we need to overcome Leave behind this idea that professional development technology to support staff. You know that these air luxuries, you know, we’re way cut. Being a couple of operating systems behind is okay, because it’s more important that we spend our money on the people or the programs. You know, that’s that’s that’s outdated, thinking you and what we’re seeing in terms of younger folks leaving the sector is bearing out that bearing out out. That’s evidence that we’re not providing what they’re looking for. So they try one or two jobs and then they leave. That’s that’s not talk about not sustainable.

[00:21:26.64] spk_0:
I could just hear some of your audience members saying asked Lawrence to tell me where to find money for technology improvements or, UM, or professional development.

[00:21:28.69] spk_1:
All right, well, good. You’re channeling the audience like Ideo. Ask the other. Answer them.

[00:23:19.64] spk_0:
It’s hard. Um, I know what what we do is we build it into our overhead rate and where we can we try to get so many nonprofits have such a low overhead rate, and that’s again back with Bill Shore was talking about, um, some government contracts actually curb you at 10% and most nonprofits haven’t overhead rate at least a 23 24% and arguably it should be probably close to the 35. I think all the major universities are somewhere north of 50% overhead. So trying to get it into your overhead and then, of course, looking form or general operating support by identifying donor advised funds, which, by definition, as you know tony, are hidden. There are profiles you could use to assume that somebody probably has a donor advised fund. We do that nor prospect research. And then, of course, we asked directly when we’re talking to them or serving them. So people who have donor advised funds are very friendly to, you know, odd costs or what? You know what the As contrast that to institutional funders where you get a grant for your program. Sometimes in those grants you can add a computer. You can say we need, you know, 40 hours of professional development. So integrating it into all your fund raising on into your overhead rate has worked with many of our clients. Um And then, of course, there’s rare occasions when on our f p is issued where you can ask for things like that.

[00:23:31.02] spk_1:
Uh huh. You doesn’t work with sterile needle exchange. Just talk about that a little bit. That sounds like a good story.

[00:24:36.14] spk_0:
Yeah, Harm reduction. Um, again, a better set of problems. Um, it’s better toe. Have needle. Ah, needle users use clean needles, then toe Have them keep using dirty needles because it reduces the spread off HIV and STDs. Ah, and blood born infections. Um, so that’s a better harm. Reduction is a better set of problems with science behind it. And, um, this is true not just in the United States, but in, uh, all throughout the world and European countries who have harm reduction policies. Harm reduction is still needed. It it’s kind of fallen out of fashion. There’s just a handful, maybe two or three funders who are interested in it. The drug policy alliance is still interested in it. And the Komer Foundation, if if they’re still around,

[00:24:40.50] spk_1:
what was What was your work in harm reduction?

[00:25:29.42] spk_0:
Uh, well, I had, uh, helped, um, the New York harm reduction Educators in the Bronx form a hotline so that people could reach them, and, uh, we went to check cashing stores. Um, where the poor, The poor in the Bronx generally don’t use a bank. They pay to have their check cashed, which is a scandal unto itself, but its exorbitant if we would expand the United States Postal Service is toe what it was in the 19 fifties. They they wouldn’t have have that. There’s a direct link between the reduction of the role of the U. S Postal Service in its role with money orders and check cashing and the the upswing of these four profit sleazy check cashing.

[00:25:38.50] spk_1:
Interesting. All right, we’re

[00:26:04.35] spk_0:
but any way went to the check cashing places. And yes, we paid them. We had to pay them when they cashed the cheque to put our business card for the the New York Harm Reduction Educators with 1 800 number on And we saw, on average, 800 new enrollees into the non profit to get access to HIV prevention and treatment service is

[00:27:17.24] spk_1:
I did. I did work in Philadelphia when I was in law school with an organization called Prevention Point, Philadelphia. It was it was a grassroots, sterile needle exchange. Excuse me. They were going toe parks in areas where they knew drug activity was high on weekends and literally distributing marked sterile needles marked so that they knew when they got their own back so they could had some. They had a measure of effectiveness. How many sterile needles were coming back and how maney unmarked needles So dirty needles they were getting off the streets, and that was incredibly rewarding. It was an internship, but just to see the the father’s walk up or drive up with a young child in tow and, you know, taking 1/2 a dozen needles and giving us 1/2 a dozen. Uh, but I know the statistics are there that it reduces on. This was 1989 1990. Uh, no. HIV was much more dangerous than it is now.

[00:28:41.54] spk_0:
And he’s here. You see in art in the conversation right now between tony and I, how a fund raiser discovers his or her product to sell. This is what fundraisers do at the highest level. We listen to the caseworkers to the clients, to the statistics to the the best practice studies, for example, with a affordable housing program that I’m starting to work within Orlando, Florida The executive director was blown away because the first thing we were starting to do is we’ve read 10 years worth of completely boring but totally relevant thinking from the Orlando Housing Authority about their needs assessments. They do them, they’re required to do them every 10 years. And those documents are chock full with with really good data. Um, I mean, that’s something to be a proud of in our country is we still have some semblance of these local civic governments that are doing their due diligence about community need. Um, but this is how fundraisers then get a very powerful case for support develop. Um, and uh huh. That’s why there’s a chapter about impact and the the the product is your program, and it’s a

[00:30:33.04] spk_1:
we need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software. Their accounting product, Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two reopening from Corona virus. That’s the special episode with Lisa Brauner. I just want to make sure that you heard it. It’s very good, very relevant, and I don’t want you to miss it if, uh, if you’re just sampling the show. Perhaps those were listening to every show, of course. All three of you, Cheryl, Rick and my dad. I’m just kidding about that. My dad doesn’t even know what a podcast is. So for Cheryl and Rick, I know that you are covered, but everybody else, Lisa is very smart. It’s a valuable show. We talk about dozens of issues for you to consider. As you plan to reopen your office reopening from Corona virus, you’ll find it at tony-martignetti dot com. Oh, and please, please keep taking care of yourself. Do it each day. You need it. You deserve it. Please do it. That is tony. Stick to now back to Lawrence Paige. Tony Panyu. Tony. He’s chairman of lap of fundraising. We’re talking about his book fundraising for 01 You talk about the donor as hero? What, uh, what are you thinking there?

[00:30:36.04] spk_0:
Well, uh,

[00:30:37.68] spk_1:
all right. Share your thinking. I know what you’re thinking cause I read your I read your book. So listen, you just got to get the book. If you want to flush out the full thunk thinking Sure. The launch will introduce you to his thinking as donors as heroes,

[00:32:16.34] spk_0:
so many appeal letters or annual reports or newsletter. They make the client the hero. There’s there’s wisdom to that. They make the organization itself the hero. But in fund raising, the donor is the hero. And I grew up in a non profit sector that ignored that the ascent ignored the donor. The essential message to the donor for most of my life has been give and shut up. Um, but today’s donor wants to be heard. They want to be acknowledged. They will give MME. Or they will become more involved. It was Terry Axelrod, the founder of the Bena von model of fundraising that started to give me a hint that donors wanted to be engaged, and then the data bore that out. Um, I’ve started to take on clients who would tell me, Oh, we could never ask. Are our volunteers for money? I haven’t heard that question in the past five years or so. Ah, better set of problems, I think. I think people are more convinced that they realize their donors want to give and hello out there. If you think your dough. If you still think your donors, your volunteers going to No. Well, please evaluate that. Read my book and evaluate that because your volunteers want to give

[00:33:07.07] spk_1:
you, uh, one little quote, you say as your writing. You know, as you’re writing to your donors, um, tell the story as if the donor were sitting before you over a cup of coffee. Uh, you suggest you see their smile, speak their name? Um, you make it up, make it a conversation. You know, this idea of stilted language? Uh, you have to fill in 8.5 by 11 page sheet of paper. Maybe. Sometimes you do. But if you don’t need to, then don’t. Um, handwriting, handwriting and written solicitations could be probably more sincere than something you produce on word and feel constrained, compelled to Philip age around. So no, get close and talk to people like like you would like to be talked to.

[00:33:25.56] spk_0:
I learned from Tom Ahern about some of the nuances about making the donor the hero, and it actually influenced my book cover. You could see you know,

[00:33:26.88] spk_1:
Darcis holding listening marches, holding up his book cover. Okay,

[00:34:17.64] spk_0:
going below, there’s a hook with a dollar sign going below the surface of the water Because the point is to rid to raise the big money you have, Teoh, think more deeply about fundraising and what’s motivating the donor. Um, but we start making the case right on the cover of a newsletter or a case for support. We recently did a case for support for an animal welfare agency where we put a picture of the Cubist cat on one case and the cute his dog on the other with their owners who had just adopted them holding them. But right underneath that we put the question, How can we ever say no? So we’re we’re saying to the donor,

[00:34:20.74] spk_1:
it wasn’t How can you How can you say no if you

[00:34:23.95] spk_0:
ever say no?

[00:34:24.74] spk_1:
Yeah, right. How can you say you ever seen get the you? You gotta get you with yours in there.

[00:34:28.90] spk_0:
That you in there?

[00:34:43.14] spk_1:
Okay, so I read the book you missed. You blew the Holt. Whole Point is, you gotta have the u in there. Not how can we get You are sorry. Um um

[00:34:44.44] spk_0:
you your it’s all about you.

[00:35:24.47] spk_1:
Yes, using yours. I know. Tom Ahern stresses that he even has a calculator on the Web somewhere. It might be a hearn dot com or something where you can put your text in and it’ll evaluate how many years you have versus how many wees or something like that, right? But I’m constantly I’m constantly rewriting, you know, the can we change the to you, the donor, Your you, your donors? I mean, as I am writing to clients instead of the donors, your donors, you’re talking now to the second person instead of the abstract third person, the donor that could be anybody’s donors. No, we’re talking about your donors, your donor. That’s just not not in the abstract. I think it bring. It makes it more concrete than using the site. That second person.

[00:35:51.64] spk_0:
Yeah, and it also it’s It’s not just a linguistic shift. There’s research science behind it. Psychology, science, psychological sciences behind it that the donors feel like Oh, he really is talking about me and and so we raise more money with that approach.

[00:35:54.39] spk_1:
By the way, did I did I mispronounce your name when I introduced you?

[00:35:59.14] spk_0:
I know. You

[00:36:00.34] spk_1:
know I didn’t I had hoped that I had met mispronounced your name because I had hoped that by now 6.5 years later you had changed the pronunciation of Panyu. Tony, why are you still defacing your beautiful Italian names with

[00:36:14.79] spk_0:
parents? It’s worse than that. The whole name on the bastard bastard birth certificate is Lorenzo Antonio Paige non. Tony?

[00:36:22.66] spk_1:
Yes, Panyu tony, why are you started

[00:36:25.28] spk_0:
the opera? You know

[00:36:26.63] spk_1:
I know you. You are in 2013. You mentioned your

[00:36:33.25] spk_0:
grandmother. Grandmothers? Uh uh. She loved the operating that she tell me that old time your name’s a little opera.

[00:37:18.63] spk_1:
I would rather you take the g out to make it pan, tony, or it switches to panini or something. Please. But you’re you’re killing the beautiful pronunciation. Panya non. I’ll try, tony. I promise to try. All right, it’s worth It’s worth the investment. It’s worth the investment in changing the pronunciation, not dispelling just a pronunciation. People will still be able to find you on the web. All right, um, you said you say all donors are major donors and following from that all gifts of major gifts. What? What? What is that to me? We know we’re stratify ing. We have our modest donors because we’re too afraid to call them small donors that we say their modest And then we have our mid level and major and then, you know, may be ultra. But you say all old owners are major donors.

[00:39:54.42] spk_0:
Yes, because nobody has to give a dime to you. Nobody has to give their hard earned money to you. Nobody has to on because of that, they all should be treated in a major way. Now, of course, in the systems of fundraising, we might have automation in place. Hope thoughtful automation for donors who are, you know, from $1 to say, $5000 for major donors or transformational donors at the higher levels. You know, we have a more personal touch. It’s expensive. Major gift officers who know what they’re doing are have come at a higher salary because their skills are honed over years and they know how to deeply listen and use the data to ask for transformational gifts, multiyear gifts, legacy gifts. Um, but, um but but I’m trying to convey that we shouldn’t take any dollar, no matter the size amount for granted that that they don’t have to give and people are giving, you know Jesus pointed out in Scripture. The widow’s mite was greater than the Faris ease giving because she gave from her heart and she gave from her want. And, um so I had to learn again. Just like with professional development. I had a learned this the hard way. My development I belly eight about donor giving less than I thought he he could have My development director quietly closed the door, sat down with that white flustered look on his face like Lawrence. Jesus, Mother God, you know, what am I gonna do with you? You’re supposed to be our leader. And he said to me lardons every gift is a major one and he didn’t have to give that gift. And that’s a real story. And I went silent and I thought about it. And I thought, You know, that’s That’s damn true. Yeah, eventually, that donor, because of the way my development director treated him so kingly. He did give at much higher levels later on. But nobody has to give us a dime.

[00:40:19.62] spk_1:
Generous would be proud of you. Still still quoting, still quoting scripture that influence that’s with you forever, I’m sure. Yeah. Uh, something else you. You, ah, seems provocative. That you devote a chapter to is, uh, revenue diversification. You you tell us it’s overrated. Flush that out. Would you?

[00:41:37.61] spk_0:
For smaller organizations, divert revenue diversification is really essential. I’m not naive about that, but it’s expensive to do well. Um, most smaller organizations barely have. Well, the profile most organizations is that they don’t even have a development office state. They have the program director and the executive director rights to grants or, um, manages the gala. They might bring in a gala event consultant, but, um, when when Stanford University did a study of think it was 130 major nonprofits who had gotten over $50 million annual revenues, they discovered that diversification of revenue went down. And that study was a seminal piece of research that changed our thinking about diversification. So as a non profit grows to a better set of problems, um, its revenue should stream should become deeper, not wider, and a

[00:41:38.56] spk_1:
few 1,000,000,000. What’s deeper in what’s most successful,

[00:43:00.34] spk_0:
that’s right and most lucrative. For example, Habitat for Humanity. They started with, um in kind donations as there biggest source of revenue that the stuff that they needed for the houses that they were building good stuff, not just, you know, poor quality stuff. But then they realized that the people who donated that stuff were willing to donate. And so they started an individual donor program that eventually grew as they did. Don’t a research to major major gift program, and they went deeper and deeper into that source of revenue individual giving they before monthly giving. They formed eventually on line giving. They formed legacy societies. So within each revenue stream, you can create enormous depth. And, ah, instead of expanding outside, could habitat taken government money is probably some of them eventually did in localities that where the local government said, Hey, we wanna help because this is part of our community development, a program. And so they got some

[00:43:46.04] spk_1:
time for our last break turned to communications. They’re former journalists, so you get help getting your message through. It is possible to be heard through the Corona virus cacophony. Plus, you want toe prepare, you got a plan to build media relationships. When all this noise subsides, there is a future after this. They know exactly what to do for you. They’re a turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got, but loads more time for fundraising for 01 This is also an example of where you need to invest in staff. You know, if you want. If you want to go deeper in the in the channel, the fundraising method that’s that’s most lucrative for you. You’re gonna have to do it with a professional who’s got an experience, got experience in that in that channel and maybe others as well. But it can’t continually be the executive director trying to deep in fundraising in the most look from the most lucrative source and manage the organization. Oversee the programs in short compliance. I mean, this is where you have to invest. If you want to be among those few charities that gets to the whatever 50 or $55 million level. You know it’s doable, but you need to invest in growth.

[00:44:58.44] spk_0:
When I last talked to you in 2013 our firm talked a good game about Prospect Research Service is, and we did. We did deliver some service is, but we got honest with ourselves that we had to invest. Seven years later, we have you know, a six person T and we do Don’t a research. Now we find I mean, we found 108,000 new donors. Value aligned donors for Lutheran Social Service is we found 8000 new donors for the food bank in New Jersey. Um, we found ah, 42 new board member candidates for ST Christopher’s Inn and Garrison, New York.

[00:45:15.86] spk_1:
I mean, our donor from in investing in Prospect Research.

[00:45:24.09] spk_0:
Yeah, and and also the field itself has matured and developed. And it’s not just about the data. It’s about using how to use the data off when you marry the data of vendors with a trained fundraiser. That’s where you have the alchemy

[00:45:37.49] spk_1:
and you have a whole. You have a chapter devoted to not underfunding advancement, development. It’s called development for a reason. You make the point. It needs to grow, and if you’re gonna grow it, you got to invest in it. So don’t under fund your development. Ah,

[00:46:02.77] spk_0:
and by the way, I just gave you the tip for my the book. The next book, How to Find New Donors, which will be out sometime in 2021.

[00:46:04.50] spk_1:
You’re doing a prospect research book.

[00:46:29.78] spk_0:
Yeah. Uh, interesting. You call it that? I’m not sure. It’s funny. Um, I I’m professionally, I’m a fundraiser. I’m not a prospect researcher. Yeah, I use the tools. I know it in good prospect researchers. Obviously, we have them here at the firm E. And I know I’m not one of them, but I’m a fund raiser who uses the data So that put the books about. It’s a nuance, maybe a distinction without a difference. But But there are very wonky. Very good prospect research books out there that I couldn’t possibly Right.

[00:46:54.18] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. But, um, I still have some other things I want to cover with you. We got, like, another 10 minutes or so left, but, uh, let me throw to you. What do you want to talk about from the book?

[00:47:08.48] spk_0:
Well, right off, I’d like Teoh, uh, invite the reader to to actually read it. I talked to a lot of fund raisers, and I’m not

[00:47:16.38] spk_1:
convinced. Sounds like that. I think that’s sound advice for a book. Ah, Book author? Yeah. Assumed my book, for God’s sake.

[00:47:26.48] spk_0:
Well, I actually learned this from a terrific fundraiser. Who headed up the Heyman Institute, Um, at New York University. Ah, Naomi Levine.

[00:47:32.24] spk_1:
Had I had her on the show years ago? Yes, I

[00:48:20.87] spk_0:
remember. Naomi, you know, kicked my butt around. Lawrence, you know, you have to read not just in our field, extensively. But you have to read in the field of economics in the field of sociology in the field of of, ah, science because the donors are expert in those fields. I remember going into a meeting with an engineer on a plan gift. And, um, he mentioned something that I had read because of Naomi suggestion about the field of of environmental engineering. And I said to him, You know, I know enough to be dangerous, but are you talking about, you know, corrosive engineering protection and his I split up? How the hell did you know that?

[00:48:24.77] spk_1:
You learned those words and friends. Corrosive engineering protection. And

[00:49:05.17] spk_0:
there’s affinity on this is our job. Is fundraising whites or amazing field? You? Never, if you’re bored, is a fundraiser. Holy cow. Your read my book and find out. You know, a way to become a non board. But my point, tony, is that so many fundraisers. Our stayed there. Kind of. They know what they know. Um, I could tell you at this time in my life more about what I don’t know about fund raising that then what I know about it and why I surround myself with good thinkers myself. And I’ve been told that this book and this is my second point is both helpful for somebody advanced in fundraising like yourself. And it’s also helpful for people who are new or mid career that it’s a very approachable book. Primarily because I tell stories that are based in reality. And I then give the more advanced theory behind it.

[00:49:32.27] spk_1:
Yeah, So I grab it. Is it is it You

[00:49:34.44] spk_0:
found that to be the case?

[00:49:46.87] spk_1:
It is approachable. Yeah. Um, it’s my turn again now. So you you have advice for ah CEO? Um, decision making and also CEO as fundraiser. So I want to put those two together and and explore what? What? Decisions about fundraising are appropriate at the CEO level.

[00:51:16.76] spk_0:
So, uh, knowing the plan and understanding the plan of how to move to a better set of problems, do you have the same fund raising dilemma year in and year out. That’s the CEO’s job to kick the boards, but and the the development teams. But ah ah, because so many fundraising programmes have the same problem year in and year out. That means it’s stuck and, um, and that’s primarily on the shoulders of the CEO. Uh, the underfunding of the development team that’s on the shoulders of the CEO. The CEO has to find the revenue to fund the capacity to pay for developed. Um, and I offer many on my blawg at lap of fundraising dot com. I offer you know, thousands of suggestions about how toe pay for fundraising, and, um so there’s two examples Ah, third example I’d give of the CEOs job and fundraising. Is it? They have to, um, boxed the ears or guide the boards in

[00:51:18.74] spk_1:
the stage box. Just 60 years, Yeah, box that years of war guide, okay

[00:51:24.20] spk_0:
or guide? That’s they would guide

[00:51:26.18] spk_1:
whose chooser is somewhere in that spectrum.

[00:51:59.21] spk_0:
Somewhere that spectrum. They have to guide the board’s way to think about fund raising because boards who know nothing about fundraising are sitting there in judgment of professional fund raisers who have you know, 25 years of experience. There’s, They wouldn’t do that to the program director. Some of them do. But that’s another set of problems. They wouldn’t. They generally don’t do it to their attorneys. They wouldn’t. They certainly don’t do it to their auditors. They feel free to do it to their fundraisers,

[00:52:07.34] spk_1:
things they would never do in their own business. They do, uh, routinely some boards, you know, to the CEO and the program staff of the board. Who’s the non profit, whose boards they said on. And you talk about a heavy lifting board gotta have a heavy lifting board.

[00:53:18.95] spk_0:
Yes, governance is a thing. Governance is not for every volunteer. Its governance is not just for, um, the person who likes your mission or whose son or daughter benefited from from your mission. Governance is a business proposition that the nonprofit sector has designed, Um, and it has roles and responsibilities for not just fugitive fiduciary roles, but for long range planning. It’s the job of the executive team to think about the next three years, but it’s the job of the board to think about the next 5 to 10 years. Yeah, and most boards never really think about the long term plan now, you know, planning in this day and age is is it is it anachronistic? I don’t think it is but a little bit old fashioned, but I think plans should be nimble and changed. But you should still have, Ah, a long range plan about what you want to look like in 5 to 10 years.

[00:54:01.14] spk_1:
Yeah, that heavy lifting board and in terms of fundraising as well. And you make the point that campaigns could be a very good I very good vehicle for, ah recycling board or replacing board members that aren’t that aren’t heavy lifting. Maybe there’s an advisory council they can go on or some kind of America’s status so that they’re not embarrassed but still age. But But they’re not. But they’re not a fiduciary any longer. With those obligations and eso right, we have just like a minute or so left. Uh, leave us. Leave us with something, but do it concisely, please.

[00:55:46.67] spk_0:
Oh, we’re in the middle of as you and I record this were in the middle of the cove in 19 Pandemic. The nonprofits that are raising more money through this pandemic are the ones with a deep culture of philanthropy and that culture philanthropy is defined by resiliency. Resilience. Um, if you’re serious about the next pandemic or about your own viability in the future, the 23 chapters of this book well, deep in your culture of philanthropy so that you’re more prepared for the future. If you’re assessing yourself right now as that you were not ready for this pandemic, do not beat yourself up. But take it as a wake up call to start getting ready for the economic crisis that we’re going to be living through for the next couple of years, and for the very much needed reform of our health care system, so that the poor and uh, communities of color are better served than what we’re seeing in Cove in 19. And so that’s a real reason to read this right now. Tony, You and I have lived through many crisis is, and Cove in 19 certainly has its own characteristics that are unique. But, um, there are always crisis is that we face, and we have to be more resilient with a deeper culture of philanthropy, and fundraising for a one will help you get there.

[00:55:59.84] spk_1:
That’s the book fundraising for a one master classes in non profit fundraising that would make Peter Drucker proud. He’s Lawrence Ape Agnone lap.

[00:56:02.63] spk_0:
The

[00:56:02.74] spk_1:
company is labra lap of fundraising dot com and at lap of fundraising. Lawrence. Thank you very, very much. My pleasure.

[00:56:10.00] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Thank you

[00:57:29.30] spk_1:
for sharing. Okay. Next week, more 20 and TC panel interview Greatness. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com My Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission turned hyphen. Two dot ceo creative producer is Clear My wrath. Sam Liebowitz Managed stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our guy. This music is by Scott’s time with me next week for not profit radio, big non profit ideas. 14 of their 95% go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for October 6, 2017: Getting To The Next Level

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Laurence Pagnoni: Getting To The Next Level

Laurence Pagnoni is author of the book, “The Nonprofit Fundraising Solution.” Based on his work as an executive director and fundraising consultant, he has proven strategies to get you to the next level of fundraising revenue. (Originally aired November 8, 2013)

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Welcome to our newest sponsor, tello’s credit card and payment processor. They’re out of norman, oklahoma, but they serve the world welcome. Tell us so glad you’re with us. Thank you for supporting non-profit radio. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of lymph node itis if you inflamed me with the idea that you missed today’s show, get to the next level. Lawrence paige nani is author of the book the front non-profit fund-raising solution based on his work as an executive director and fund-raising consultant, he has proven strategies to get you to the next level of fund-raising revenue this originally aired on november eighth twenty thirteen and i did have to make a switch from what i announced last week, we will get oracle net sweet on later this year. I’m working on that on tony’s take two e-giving tuesday, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by wagner, sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers witness oppa is dot com, you’re not a business you’re non-profit kaplow’s accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and tell us they’re turning payment processing into passive revenue streams for non-profits tell us processing dot com here is lawrence paige nani will get to the next level. I’m very pleased that lawrence paige no knees book and his work bring him to the studio. He has spent twenty five years in the nonprofit sector and was an executive director of three non-profit fitz he’s been a faculty member at the gnu heimans center for philanthropy and fund-raising we’ve had guests from there, and the coach is a group of executive directors with the rutgers business schools institute for ethical leadership. His book is the non-profit fund-raising solution. Powerful revenue strategies to take you to the next level lorts back. Tony, welcome to the studio. Thank you so much. I’m glad to be here. It’s. A real pleasure to have you know, i love having live in studio guest. It just makes it that much more special. Congratulations on the book, it’s. Just it’s out this month, right? Yes. Just a few weeks ago and and delighted. It has a robust sales so far. Excellent, very good for you. Thank you. I have to ask you this. I’ve wondered about this since i first saw your name, which is years. Why isn’t it panjwani wipe agnone? How did you i’m not martignetti why did you? Somewhere along the lineage you went to patin? Tony had that happened? It’s my grand. My grandmother would like your question. It’s, lorenzo, antonio peggy oni that’s your your it’s, like a little birdie operate you’re you’re ah, expression of it is accurate, and but, you know, in american vernacular gets paige no knee. I hate that. I hate that your grandmother would love the pan uni i was a beautiful name. It is operatic. Um, the non-profit fund-raising solution. What is the problem? Well, under capitalization of the sector plagues more than seventy seven percent of non-profits they i have a vision, but they don’t have the money to implement it. And many organizations spend years on a plateau under two hundred fifty thousand dollars trying to execute their vision for some small non-profits ah, humble budget is more than adequate, and they’re doing good services and they are meeting their vision. So don’t mean to imply that. You need money too, do your work and they’re amazing volunteer organizations. But for those organizations that that need money, i wrote the book in that spirit of trying to help them, tio, to go to the next level, which is such a ubiquitous question. I mean, i get that a lot on dh. I work only really in the planned e-giving and the charity registration niches. But even i am asked a lot. You know, how do we get to the next level? Can you help us get to the next level? So there are a lot of organizations that do want to go to increased fund-raising revenue. It’s the number one question i get when i give seminars or public trainings, and somebody inevitably will wander up to that micah’s i say in the introduction and and ask me, how do you get to the next level? And on the one hand, it’s a poetic question, but on the other hand, it’s for my sensibilities, it’s a business question with mathematical methods behind it. And the book tries to explain that if you get your leadership, understanding the vision for what the next level looks like if the board supports that vision if you think about hyre level strategies and you work on changing the culture of your organization so that the organisational development matches that vision that’s the foundation, there’s four aspects are the foundation for going to the next level, and then the rest is tactical most fund-raising is tactical. The strategy comes from the organization, and we’re gonna have time to talk about the organisational development as well as the strategies and tactics, because i love that we have the full hour together. So the symptoms of this problem are mean ah, event to event fund-raising or maybe sole source revenue streams? Yeah, most foundation grants have ah, three year limit. There are some exceptions to that, of course, places like the robin hood foundation, which see themselves as long term partners, um, but event to event without any cash reserves and some organizations just go year two year like that and and and make do and with a little bit of luck and and providence, they they squeak by, but it’s hard to plan having an impact on your mission and on the sector. The field of service, if you will, that you’ve chosen if you really want to help at risk kids, i have a better chance at getting into college or getting the right on the right employment that’s a great example because it’s, exactly it’s for you, you do have to plan for years that’s a life cycle of a child and if you’re you know, as you say, just getting by year to year, how can you plan for that child’s future? You can’t you can’t plan for your own that’s, right? Do you think that since we see such a reliance on events, i have a theory? I don’t, but you khun you’re free to disagree that the reliance on events is so that people can avoid what they fear, which is having to sit across the table from someone and looked him in the eye and ask them for a gift. Well, it’s, funny as best as i understand it, and i’m always learning events were yeah, the history of them goes back to having an opportunity to thank your individual donors. They weren’t actually fundraisers unto themselves, and then they course morphed into that when in fund-raising when the event ah, is linked to individual giving and get in to get the individual giving program. They always raise more money because the point is that the twenty percent of your individual donor base who gives eighty percent generally on your revenue since the recession. We see it’s maybe seventy. Thirty. Um, they need to be talked to individually and thoughtfully, and having tough conversations with donors is part of that territory. And i think a lot of people are, um, are shy about that. Money, of course, is one of the great taboos of life and so it’s fraught with ah, emotional issues. Um, you allude to cem cem research done by stanford about the dominant revenue source. We’ll flush that after us. Sure. Well, you often hear people say that they need a diversified revenue base. Yes, and i’ve heard that for years as a fundraiser. And as in the former executive director, i used to worry about how much time and energy that talkto have more than one or two revenue streams. So a few years ago, stanford university ah did research on one hundred and forty hundred forty one non-profits that that had gotten over the fifty million dollar marks annual budget. What they discovered was a surprise that those organizations generally had a dominant source of revenue and possibly a secondary source of revenue and wasn’t as diversified as smaller non-profits. But they also said that smaller non-profits still needed to diversify until they got to that plateau. Ah, when or they got to that level, when they could break through for a dominant source of revenue. And the reason this is interesting is that those non-profits that got over fifty million. They knew everything. There was to know about that dominant source of revenue. If it was individual giving, say, for example, habitat for humanity. Their dominant source of revenue is individual giving, followed by in-kind donations, followed by foundations. Um, they knew everything there was from about individual giving. From ah there, first acquisition, to plan giving and the whole continuum within those two ends. Yes. We are going to ah, take a break, and we’ll of course continue with lawrence, and we’ll talk a little more about the the inflexibility that we’re talking about now and that sort of tradition of of dominant source giving, but then we’re gonna move on and we’re going to talk about what it takes for the organization, too develop within before he can get to the next level, so hang in there. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Lawrence paige nani is with me. He is the author of the non-profit fund-raising solution. So before the break, we were talking a little about thiss dominant source so they knew their dominant source and maybe a secondary source very well. So it’s so it’s not so bad. Teo teo, be focused that way. No. Ah, it turns out that that that there are different levels in every revenue source of from an average level two quite skilled level. What they had a have, of course, in their dominant source of revenue was they had to have deep and abiding expertise. Ah lo, staff turnover amongst the fund-raising staff was very important for those organizations because the institutional memory of with their donors had to be preserved. It’s called development for a reason it’s a developmental process. So if you’re walking the walk with a donor through their lifetime of giving, if they get comfortable with a fundraiser, the chances of that fundraiser being able to raise more money are much higher now. Of course, that’s that’s ah juxtaposed to the chronicle philanthropies article this past year, which showed that the turn of the dissatisfaction amongst fundraisers with their organizations was extremely high. Yes, and i we talked about that on the show. Did you? Yeah, i was distraught to hear that. And because fund-raising is a noble profession, and when it’s not respected, the process is not respected than people expect returns too fast, or they expect the fundraiser toe come in with donor’s ready to g o without having to cultivate them for your mission. And these are very irrational ideas dominate the conversations around fund-raising but it’s called development for a reason, and those non-profits that god above fifty million that had a dominant source were they had a patients to their culture, and they respected the cultivation process and they closed, you know, on on major gifts much more frequently than those that didn’t have that culture. What was the first organization that you were executive director of? Oh my, it was a soup kitchen for the homeless in richmond, virginia, and i’m guessing there are a lot of lessons you learned there. Oh, my goodness, i i on the and in the book i tell the story of how i forgot about the board no, i didn’t. I didn’t technically forget about board. I attended board meetings. I prepared my reports. I i had the board book ready and met with the committee’s when they needed me, but in my soul they were superfluous, and what was really important was getting the programme metrics right and getting the fundraising going. But i came to see how the board ah, in my second executive directorship, here in new york, at harlem united, i came to see how the board i could give the organization a gift that the ceo cannot, which is the gift of longevity and survivability, and that great word that we use in the sector sustainability. So in your ah experience in was in west virginia, richmond in virginia, at the soup kitchen. Were you sort of dragging the board along as you as you worked on the metrics that were important to you or you would just take kicking them was more my style. Okay, so clicking from behind? Well, there was the italian way, the italian right? More like a bull bull in a china shop. But ah, the urgency was, of course, that homelessness was extremely bad. The single room occupancy hotels in richmond, virginia, were closing at a rapid rate, and the homeless shelters were were increasing. So we had a a profound sense of urgency, and then right in the middle that the aids epidemic was becoming clearer to us. And so there was this sense of urgency, and we in fact founded three different organizations. Ah, as spin offs to to our non-profit but i came to see the value of board leadership and bored endorsement and and to recruit people that did add value. Not everybody is meant to be a boardmember and i had made the mistake of just recruiting volunteers that had a passion for the board. Without necessarily having the business, talents and skills that i needed to fulfill the mission that we were, we were aimed at over ten to twenty years, and we’re going to talk later on about one of the opportunities that you’ve identified leadership counsels for maybe the type of people that you’re talking about not suitable for the board but have interest and passion. And so there may be another role for them. Yes, so let’s talk about the board now the board has to metoo it’s essential at the board be developed before the organization is going to get to the next level? Oh, yes, ah, a lot of ceos inherited inherit aboard when they take a job that isn’t necessarily up for the task, and they wait on the sidelines for something magical to happen with that board, and they don’t necessarily see themselves as an intervening variable to bring the board to the next level themselves. But i recommend in my book that they do see themselves as part of the change process for the board by meeting personally with board members by recruiting people who have the skills and talents that they’d be delighted to have. In leaders and that’s not all they’re not always easy processes. They take time, but you’re trying to develop a shared vision on the board. Exact between the executive leadership and the the ceo executive director and the and the volunteer leadership that’s. Right. This could take a long time to align a vision. It can, but there are plenty of examples where it happens rather fast. I mean, the board share one. The board in richmond, virginia. The board of harlem united here in new york. They were united around the being thought leaders in the field of of ah, innovative health care for people who fell outside the health care system, the homeless and indigents. And they they i saw their revenue streams from the government, both federal and state, as needing to be reformed so that they could get the funds that were needed. For example, in nineteen ninety one there were no article. Twenty eight healthcare, primary care, organised clinics. For people living with aids, they were only the peruse of mental health. So what the board did with the executive staff leadership is they formed a statewide organization called the adult they health care coalition. And they changed the way the revenue stream were structured so that article twenty eights could include primary care for people living with aids. Article twenty eight is a federal state of new york state state health. S o that you could receive third party medicare reimburse. Okay. Okay. It’s. An amazing revenue stream. Extremely stable. And it helped people keep people out of hospital emergency rooms so you can provide care at a much lower rate. So sometimes revenue streams have that level of complexity to them. And you need a board that could understand the thinking behind them. And sometimes revenue streams are easier to understand. I mean, i think that’s why people often gravitate to foundation grants. They can look at a foundation’s website. They could understand the application process, and they throw there their hat in the ring to see if there are going to be, you know, lucky. Let zoho focus on again the achieving this shared vision across the board. So it certainly takes place in inboard recruitment board meetings and a month after month. I mean what’s the what’s, the executive director’s role in trying tow align the board with this with a common vision. Well, one of my great teachers, carl matthiasson, who was expert in board development hey used to say that a board will talk about anything and then he’d pause and he’d say, if you let them sound the point, the point was that the executive director ah, in in private dialogue with the board chair or the executive committee had to understand how to create an agenda that was consistent with where they were headed, so that the organization didn’t waste a lot of time. Often times, you know, can you imagine tony in an average year, how many board meetings i sit in and listen? And so much of what boards talk about is not is inconsequential to their their deepest desires and goals, paperclips and on dh office supplies a cz one example, you know, thinking ok, go and no on the worst, and the executive director doesn’t want to be micromanaged, you know you hear that language a lot. Of course. On the other hand, the executive director is under macro managing and the opposite, of course, of micro management is macro management and macro management is about the strategic alliance of the vision and here’s, where you see a lot of executive director’s, check out the and it leaves them vulnerable to being micromanaged. So i encourage in the book for the culture of a board to be robust and that the ceo see him or herself as part of a shaper or leader in that now lot of non-profit see, youse will read that and they would go well dahna you know, i’ve been doing of course i’ve been doing that for years, but when you look across the sector that’s not necessarily the habit off many ceos, they they often see themselves as just employees of the board and they and they abdicate that board leadership responsibility, yes, even though they’re not the named chair of the board, but you’re advocating that they still have a strong role in board leadership that’s, right? And some ceos who were former program directors and then that he became the ceo, they’re not by their character change agents. So what i’m describing is a character of a ceo that’s really a change agent because i’m interested in high performing non-profits that that solve the social problem that they set out to solve, whether it be reducing teen pregnancies or having more kids get through the school system successfully or or adult employment, for example. Um, so those ceos of those kinds of organizations generally are changing agents and it’s not to say there’s something bad about the ceos are not it’s, just that i think that they have to think about a different place in the sector that might be better suited for their skills and talents. Okay, let’s, talk briefly about the gift of significance that you recommend from from board members and you in the book, you have a calculation for what that ought to be boardmember boardmember and we don’t really have a chance to go through that calculation. But what? What? Why not a significant gift? Why? Why is it a gift of significance? Well, that’s a significant point. Most boards think about board trust e-giving as giver. Get, um dahna and then there’s. A third part of that is unsaid, which is give, get or get off. Get off! So i never liked that. And i taught at the united way here in new york city for many years i taught their board seminar and and did the given get policies and there’s wisdom to that and i’m not opposed to give and get policies, but i think there’s a ah much more thoughtful way to engage the process, which is to have a conversation about a gift of significance. What for you when you look at your philanthropic giving in the past few years, given your current income, what is a significant gift that stands out amongst all your, um, you’re you’re giving and the reason that this is a particularly good approach for trustee is that a trustee is stepping up in a leadership capacity toe inspire other donors to give by their giving, and they have to see the connection between how they think about they’re giving and what they want the donors of the organization to do. Because the development director or the vice president, institutional advancement or the ceo needs to say, my trustees have stepped up, they’ve made leadership gifts one hundred percent a hundred percent they khun cumulatively give, um, you know, twenty six thousand seven hundred fifty three dollars, i’m that precise when i calculate the cumulative giving of aboard and reported back to two donors and the donor’s often laugh, but i’d rather give them the real numbers to know that this is a real process if you’re if their boat donors, if you’re trustees on your board, that can’t give a gift of significance, but it’s not sure everybody can give the gift of significance. I mean, i’ve had its what’s significant to that exactly. I’ve had consumers of services that that social work, term consumers or program members on the boards that i’ve worked at and and i’ve used the same principle with them, it could be five dollars could be fifty dollars, but for them, it’s a significant gift and it’s in phrasing it that way is a gift of significance. It captures the energy that we’re looking for around thinking about being ah fund-raising leader and, of course, ideally, too, from time to time, you want to ask the board to stretch beyond their normal giving, which is when you’re in a campaign or ah, special drive or there’s an anniversary, things like that. So continuing with some of the strategies that you recommend, um, you like like parlor gatherings over what’s, a parlor gathering could be in an office conference room could be in your living. Room ah, parties with a purpose is that is the general frays. And the purpose is the benevolence that the party it’s not a party for a party sake it’s a party for purpose. And the purpose is to sponsor and endorse and give money to the charity that is is the primary focus. They’re ninety minute gatherings. I describe the actual methods and roll out and is very user friendly chapter but, ah lot of organizations keep waiting for that moment when they’re going to go to the next level and fund-raising, of course, is a practitioners art. So here in the parties where the purpose you see avery practical method that you could roll out in two to three months, sixty to ninety days in fact, one of the smaller non-profits that listens to your radio program read the book their whole development committee. They’re all volunteers. Well, i love them because they’re listening. Yes, i don’t care what they do fund-raising wise. Frankly, lawrence, i don’t care if they bought your book or not. They’re there listening to the show that you could stop there. I love them, whoever you are, we love you. You know who? You are we love you. I’m sorry, i know it’s true and they they are going to do a party that when they called, i said, i’ll give you a free as i do anybody, i give anybody of free ah forty minute phone conversation about questions they have about the book, or i also come into organizations to meet with the development team or aboard team anyway, so i gave them a free consultation and they wanted to do a party with a purpose in the future, and i said, oh, no, we’re going to have it before the year and we’re doing it now and they’re going to be doing it right after between christmas and new year’s. Excellent more with lawrence paige nani is coming up first pursuing they’ll help you find your existing donors who are hiding in your file the ones who are prime for upgrade how do you identify them? And deep in your relationships with them? It’s the next free webinar that’s the way to find out is find hidden gems lurking in your file looking you have these gems, they’re looking it’s november seventeenth at one o’clock eastern, but that doesn’t matter. You sign up to watch live or watch the archive, and when the archives available, you get an email, so register at the non-profit radio listener landing page, which is tony dot slash pursuant remember capital p wagner cpas. They do go way beyond the numbers some articles do you do you do missions, trips? If you have missions, trips, they have an article on missions, trips, contributions if you’re not doing mission strips, what about promises to give versus intentions to give? When do you record a receivable? You don’t know? You know you need to know this, but you do lots of valuable resource is way beyond the numbers. Wagner cpas dot com click resource is then blawg stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books using quickbooks or sage, but you aren’t a business you’re non-profit you’ve heard those rumors, you are non-profit apples accounting is designed for non-profits built from the ground up for you, working in non-profits to make your accounting easy and affordable, they’re at non-profit wizard dot com, tell us credit card and payment processing. Welcome again to them. Does your organization need a passive residual revenue stream that pays? Like clockwork every month that is tello’s payment processing their partner non-profits get fifty percent of every dollar that tell oh skits and the merchants love them so easy to work with. Tell us processing dot com now time for tony’s take two. My latest video is giving tuesday are you on board? We did a whole show on this last week. My video includes lots of links. It’s e-giving tuesday roundup plenty of info for you plus remember there’s the possum shooting video and one of the links is how to cook your possum. I like to do mine the way the guy in the video does with sweet potatoes and bacon after i’ve captured one humanely my possum meals so start all that with the video at tony martignetti dot com and then go from there for the roundup in all the links that is tony’s take two let’s do the live lesser love it’s got to go out even though i’m prerecorded this week the love goes out. The love is emanating out from here on west seventy second street in new york city to the people who are currently listening live currently then now when it airs on the sixth. So live love to you you know who you are you don’t you don’t! You don’t really need me to define it. That’s true live love out to the live listeners and then the podcast pleasantry to our many, many multitudes, many scores like hundreds of scores of podcast listeners, the pleasantries go out to you so grateful that you are with us. You are the biggest chunk of our listeners. Thank you so much for being with us pleasantries to the podcasters and the affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. So glad that you’re station hosts the show so glad that you are listening you might give them some feedback. Let them know that you are in fact listening so that they no, that non-profit radio has an audience on their station am fm stations throughout the country, affections to listeners there, here’s more with lawrence paige, no knee and get to the next level let’s talk more about parlor gatherings. Lawrence you do is avery vory askew, said user friendly chapter, you have a lot of very robust advice, and i’ve always liked the idea of a small, intimate gathering so we’re goingto focus on my prejudice for these types of events, not to the exclusion well here on the show, and we don’t have a chance to talk about everything all the strategies that you have in the book, but the book is full of lots of fund-raising strategies i happen to like the i never heard them called parlor gatherings, but i like, i like that idea. Um, who should host these thes parlor gatherings? Generally? There’s one one host who has a good network of friends, were colleagues, family members and khun turnout twenty five to thirty people. Um, i’ve been it parties where the purpose parlor gatherings that have as much money as seventy five that’s a big parlour. Yeah, but they have, you know, they’re people with big names, and they have big networks and s o mostly, the host is responsible for inviting the guests, mostly the host. Now, in some organizations where our host doesn’t feel that they could deliver twenty five to thirty, people, maybe they have a co host or i’ve done three hosts and each of them commit delivering, you know, ten people and and that’s worked very well. Especially because they’ve had the support in partnership of two other people that they like and they’re going to do it together and they see it as a ah fun thing to do. I love the fact that most of the the expense budgets on parlor gatherings are a couple hundred dollars. We don’t put out a lot of fancy food. We use cheap wine or no wine at all, depending on the organization that always has to be thought through. Um, and we don’t spend money on trinkets or literature. Um, um if the if the host once, um ah, paper invitations as opposed to just using ah elektronik invitation service like ping ah, the host then has to pay for the cost of that, not the organization. And um and as i said, they are usually planned in sixty to ninety days. Okay? And you want you want nobody to talk for more than five minutes. That’s, right? Who? You should talk. Well, it has to be somebody that that people can emotionally connect with generally a client or consumer who is prepared to deliver and it’s comfortable talking to a group of those could be very tender. Intimate moments when it’s when it’s someone who’s benefiting from the services of the organization. That’s right, it’s seen i’ve seen tears in in colleges, scholarship recipients, but the cause is something causes you mentioned run much more deeply even than education. Yeah, i people who have healed from years of recovery, people who have been supported in their process of coming out of jails and prisons, people who i have ah been through adoption processes. I mean, their stories are extremely powerful, and telling a story is what you need to help them work on and prepare for, so that they have some flare on some theatrics to it where the the audience makes eye contact with them, and that that they have good hand gestures and that they’re articulate and everybody, of course, has their own style. I’ve been where some climb i’ve been to some parties with a purpose where the clients are are very stove oj and they have a quiet manner, but nonetheless, your grandmother would appreciate it slipping little italian, italian and there you are, italian listeners. Ah, they’re they’re quieter in their presentation, but nonetheless still powerful because they prepared still very moving. Very moving video is often good at larger events, but in smaller events ah, the intimacy of the smaller room gives gives good stage two to two personal witness who else should be talking? Well? The the some official from the organization of boardmember or volunteer or staff member ceo doesn’t have to be to see you. No, no, the ceo is more than happy more than welcome to think of him or herself, but again in a high functioning fund-raising culture, everybody should be empowered to talk about the money and teo, talk about the money in a way that that other people get it and doesn’t have to be the ceo there. There’s a one of the stories i tell in the book is a first party with a purpose for a small agency in brooklyn substance abuse recovery agency. They never did any private fund-raising they’d always relied on government grants and their first time out, they raised twenty six, twenty seven thousand dollars. They had two clients tell their story and ah boardmember, who never saw herself as a fundraiser, stood up and was crying after listening to the two consumers tell their story and she burst out with a five thousand dollar pledge and somebody else in the room matched it, and none of that was prepared. But it was prepared conceptually, because we do have a bias in who we invite, that we try to invite people that we know something about, that they have some means now we’re not. We’re not strict about that, but we do ask the question on do seek people who have that some level of affluence now, a lot of smaller non-profits say right off the bat, i don’t know anybody, you know, with the that level of affluence, and i say, okay, well, let’s work with what we have, and but amazingly, they always find somebody who writes that eighty percent of the rooms check on dh rehearsing you like tio, you’d like to rehearse. These rehearsing is very important, you know, the penultimate example of steve jobs that before he passed away at at apple, his his launches of new products were legendary, right? That he practiced those for weeks six, seven weeks every single day, running the whole team through rehearsals and himself, and anything worth go doing is worth practising foreign preparing well for so don’t think you could just, like, call the client up the night before and say, would you speak tomorrow at our, you know, party with a purpose? That’s not the way to do it? And what about the important follow-up to your parlor gathering well? Ah ah ah part of the second speaker or the third speakers role is to ask for funds and and a pledge form has handed out, and some people fill it out right there and it’s collected as people leave and for those that don’t hand the pledge, forman follow-up is necessary first of all, follow-up is necessary for everybody to say thank you, wei have a rule of sending out our thank you notes and forty eight hours business hours, which a lot of non-profits find, you know, really? Ah, hi rule to meet, but we think it’s important that people get both paper and email, thank you’s, and they get a cumulative understanding of what happened at the party because a lot of donors are going to leave and they’re not going to know the cumulative results that they participated in that twenty six or twenty seven thousand or five thousand or twenty, five hundred was raised whenever share that impact. You want to share that impact, and you want to be let people feel the good vibes of that they participated in, that they made it happen. And so the thank you notes need to go out the the results need to be go out by both female and paper. And then, of course, the e-giving history needs to be recorded in your database and there’s. No excuse for a non-profit whether they’re volunteer with no budget, not having a database, as i say in the book, you can go to e base dot or go get a free database that was developed by the rockefeller family foundation at my website. For the book the non-profit fund-raising solution dot com there’s links to free databases, or you could just use a good excel spreadsheet and stay organized or an access that a base that’s comes with your you know your computer there’s no excuse these days for you don’t have toe spend, you know, ten thousand a month with razors, edge or something, thank you for sharing those resources to leadership councils we alluded to these earlier what’s the role of a leadership council. Well, a non-profit has a board that that worries about its governance. Generally we say that the executive staff is supposed to be worried about one, two, three years of management, and the board should be thinking about five to ten years. The pentagon, of course, has a seventy five year strategic plan, so they know where they’re going to be. I would like our sector to know a lot more about where it’s going to be, but no pat, no matter how powerful your board is, you still need mork community endorsement for your organization and the leadership council gives you that it’s a non governance structure. Some people call it honorary councils or advisory councils. I like the term leadership council because it’s, what we’re looking for, we’re looking for them to be leaders and sometimes those leaders khun step up and say things that your board can’t say, or your executive staff can’t say about your cause. And as we saw this pit last year or two years ago with planned parenthood, there were many people on its leadership council who spoke up. In their defense, where they’re bored, needed to keep, ah, quieter, acquired or voice. So leadership councils are very important. And sometimes you put people on leadership councils who don’t want to do the heavy lifting of governance. And sometimes you put them on because you have good feelings about how they love your organization, and you want to maintain that relationship, but they’re not appropriate for the board. So it’s a it’s, a mix of characters. We’ll take a break for a couple minutes. Keep talking about leadership councils. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz i’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. What is our leadership council going to do? I lied endorse for legitimacy, credibility, they’re there to say we like these guys what they’re doing, we endorse and it there’s power by that association with their name, and they don’t even have to do anything just to have that happen. We do want people to do things on the leadership council. They’re generally a couple things. We want them to come to an annual gathering of the leadership council so that they could get their own personal update about the organization. Secondly, we want them to to meet with us individually, us being the development ofthis war, the executive office. We want to meet with them individually to talk about their own gift to the organization, plus their network of possibly doing guess what? Ah, party with a purpose for their network. So there’s a lot of in few inches integration of the tactics in part two of the ball, while part one is all about the way you think about fund-raising part two is all about the the intermarriage of various tactics. For example, in a leadership council, i think i mentioned this in the plan giving chapter you could have a leadership council just for the people who are part of it playing e-giving that there is a chapter devoted to plan giving. There is the only reason lawrence’s here. We’re not talking about that chapter it’s. The only thing that drew me to the book. I read it from backward. I read it, i read that chapter first. The plan giving is, ah, well, many times non-profits overlook having a plan giving society for their donors that that give through their bequests or their wills or insurance policies or whatever the mechanism and having a leadership council of your plan giving group is very important. Ah, there was a small client i worked with here in east haven, connecticut, the shoreline trolley museum. They’re in the in the midst of closing on a two million dollar campaign so that they could have proper buildings for their antique trolleys. They have one hundred antique trolleys, which tell the story of the trolleys from the eighteen hundreds. Amazing place. My kids love it and the ah, they never had paid attention to their legacy. Their their plan giving. Ah, donors and we started to talk to them or and organized that group. And they have a leadership council now off their plan giving donor and twenty, twenty one people joined the first year. And i think four five have joined the second year, and they were unsung people who had thought about e-giving for the future where i think you would know better than i, but something like a low seven percent of people think about a plan gift. Whereas in there course of their life, like eighty five or ninety percent of people think about giving but upon their death, they generally just leave their money to their to their family. Yeah, there’s. Some small percentage of people that have, ah, charitable bequest in there will yes, when the leadership council is advocating and endorsing, who were they advocating in endorsing, too? Ah, to the press to other thought leaders conferences during the height of the aids epidemic, the leadership council that i put together at harlem united many of those leaders would would mention in their addresses about aids and howto compassionately. Respond. They would mention that they were on the honoree council of harlem united. It meant it meant legitimacy for them and for us that they would mention that it worked both ways you had ah, leadership council, you said in the book that had fifty five members? Oh, yes, what that sounds huge. Yes. And i had the same response to the ceo, and he turned around and said, but look at my mission. I’m i have to represent, you know, thiss whole county and there were, i don’t know twenty four or five smaller towns in this county, and he represented three sectors, not just the nonprofit sector, but government and business and real estate was a big factor of that. So he needed a large counsel, and he saw the wisdom of that and he i actually had a staff member hired to manage that leadership council, and it brought him it was a wise move. It brought him a lot of impact because he he didn’t neglect his leadership council. A lot of times leadership, council’s air started. I see i go in and, um, auditing an organization and i look at their letterhead and i see, i say, oh, you have an advisory council says here? Well, yeah, but not really learns i said, what do you mean? Well, we really don’t you know, that was a couple years ago, and it was so and so’s idea and and it’s just fallen by the wayside. You see there’s an example where the culture of the organization didn’t embrace the tactic tactics don’t raise money. Yeah, excellent on their own, they need a culture to nest in and if they’re if they’re if the tactic is in an organization where the where it’s loved and cared for it then produces results, so then they get the crazy idea that, oh, well, the leadership council never really did raise much money for us, totally disassociating themselves from lack of developing it and creating a plan for it. At harlem united, our leadership council was reviewed every year, and the plan was updated and revised and evaluated, and that was brought to the boardmember that the board? I’m sorry at a board meeting, we we always had cochairs for the leadership council, male and female, pretty consistent about that for capital campaigns, male and female leaders of the campaign cabinet and those two leaders i would invite to come in and give a state of the union of the our leadership council to the board, and it was and the board members would go to the annual gathering of the leadership council. The board members were asked to do that, and so there was nice synergy and harmony there no competition, we have just about a minute and a half before to wrap up, and so i want to spend that time asking what it is that you love about the work that you do well fund-raising is a noble profession and it’s a bridge builder between the idea that you have that will make the world a better place and the money you need to actualize the program. And so the methods of fund-raising are build that bridge, and and you love building bridges, and absolutely one of my old teachers used to say, if you build bridges, don’t don’t be surprised when people walk on them or walk over you, but nonetheless fund-raising is that bridge between the non-profits idea and the reality of making it happen? There are lots of very good ideas in the book it is the non-profit fund-raising solution. Powerful revenue strategy is to take you to the next level. Lawrence paige nani lawrence’s l a u r e n c e panjwani perfect. Thank you so much for being guests. Been a pleasure. I’ve been delighted to be here, and i wanna shout out just quickly to all by blogged readers. About forty, five hundred of them raise your block non-profit fund-raising solution dot com and you can sign up there to be on the block. Outstanding. Thank you again. Thank you. Next week development assessments with glenn kaufhold if you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com regular cpas guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com stoploss accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and tell us credit card and payment processors welcome again, tell us passive revenue streams for non-profits tell us processing dot com a creative producer is claire my off family boats in the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez and this cool music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit video. Big non-profit ideas for the out there, ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is, we’re here now that’s. Why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for October 2, 2015: Get To The Next Level

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Laurence Pagnoni: Get To The Next Level

Laurence-Pagnoni-large-300x239Laurence Pagnoni is author of “The Nonprofit Fundraising Solution.” Based on his work as an executive director and fundraising consultant, he has proven strategies to get you to the next level of fundraising revenue. (Originally aired November 8, 2013)

 


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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with neff roma golly, if i had to pass the idea that you missed today’s show it’s actually never throw megally get to the next level. Lawrence paige nani is author of the next the non-profit fund-raising solution. Based on his work as an executive director and fund-raising consultant, he has proven strategies to get you to the next level of fund-raising revenue this originally aired on november eighth twenty thirteen i wish he would pronounce his name panjwani lorenzo panjwani on tony’s take two video from venice. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com let’s go with our first segment here is lawrence paige nani. I’m very pleased that lawrence paige no knees book and his work bring him to the studio. He has spent twenty five years in the nonprofit sector and was an executive director of three non-profits he’s been a faculty member at the gnu heimans center for philanthropy and fund-raising we’ve had guests from there. And the coach is a group of executive directors with the rutgers business schools institute for ethical leadership. His book is the non-profit fund-raising solution. Powerful revenue strategies to take you to the next level. Lorts back. Tony, welcome to the studio. Thank you so much. I’m glad to be here. It’s. A real pleasure to have, you know, i love having live in studio guest. It just makes it that much more special. Congratulations on the book, it’s. Just it’s out this month, right? Yes, just a few weeks ago. And and delighted it has a robust sales so far. Excellent. Very good for you. I think i have to ask you this. I’ve wondered about this since i first saw your name, which is years. Why isn’t it pan yanni wipe agnone. How did you i’m not martignetti why did you? Somewhere along the lineage, you went to pack no knee. Well, had that happened? It’s, my grand, my grandmother would like your question. It’s, lorenzo, antonio peggy oni that’s your your it’s like a little birdie operate you’re you’re ah, expression of it is accurate. And but, you know, in american vernacular gets paige. No knee. I hate that. I hate that your grandmother would love the pan uni i was a beautiful name. It is so operatic. Um, the non-profit fund-raising solution. What is the problem? Well, under capitalization of the sector plagues more than seventy seven percent of non-profits they have a vision, but they don’t have the money to implement it. And many organizations spend years on a plateau under two hundred fifty thousand dollars trying to execute their vision for some small non-profits ah, humble budget is more than adequate, and they’re doing good services and they are meeting their vision. So don’t mean to imply that you need money too. Do your work. There are amazing volunteer organizations, but for those organizations that that need money, i wrote the book in that spirit of trying to help them tio, to go to the next level which is such a ubiquitous question. I mean, i get that a lot on dh. I work only really in the plant giving and the charity registration niches. But even i am asked a lot, you know? How do we get to the next level? Can you help us get to the next level? So there are a lot of organizations that do want to go to increased fund-raising revenue it’s the number one question i get when i give seminars or public trainings, and somebody inevitably will wander up to that micah’s i say in the introduction, and and ask me, how do you get to the next level? And on the one hand, it’s a poetic question, but on the other hand, it’s for my sensibilities, it’s a business question with mathematical methods behind it, and the book tries to explain that if you get your leadership understanding the vision for what the next level looks like if the board supports that vision, if you think about hyre level strategies and you work on changing the culture of your organization so that the organisational development matches that vision that’s the foundation there’s four aspects are the foundation for going to the next level, and then the rest is tactical most fund-raising is tactical. The strategy comes from the organization, and we’re gonna have time to talk about the organisational development as well as the strategies and tactics were because i love that we have the full hour together, so the symptoms of this problem are mean, ah, event to event fund-raising or maybe sole source revenue streams? Yeah, most foundation grants have ah, three year limit. There are some exceptions to that, of course, places like the robin hood foundation, which see themselves as long term partners. Um, but event to event without any cash reserves and some organizations just go year two year like that and and and make do and with a little bit of luck and and providence, they they squeak by, but it’s hard to plan having an impact on your mission and on the sector, the field of service, if you will, that you’ve chosen. If you really want to help at risk kids, i have a better chance getting into college or getting the right on the right employment that’s a great example because it’s exactly it’s for you you do have to plan for years that’s a life cycle of a child and if you’re you know, as you say, just getting by year to year, how can you plan for that child’s future? You can’t. You can’t plan for your own that’s, right? Um, do you think that since we see such a reliance on events, i have a theory, i don’t, but you khun you’re free to disagree that the reliance on events is so that people can avoid what they fear, which is having to sit across the table from someone and looked him in the eye and ask them for a gift. Well, it’s, funny as best as i understand it and i’m always learning events were the history of them goes back to having an opportunity to thank your individual donors. They weren’t actually fundraisers unto themselves, and then they course morphed into that when in fund-raising when the event ah, is linked to individual giving and get in to get the individual giving program, they always raise more money, because the point is that the twenty percent of your individual donor base who gives eighty percent generally on your revenue since the recession, we see it’s maybe seventy, thirty um they need to be talked to individually and thoughtfully, and having tough conversations with donors is part of that territory, and i think a lot of people are, um, are shy about that. Money, of course, is one of the great taboos of life and so it’s fraught with emotional issues um, you allude to cem cem research done by stanford about the dominant revenue source? We’ll flush that after us. Sure. Well, you often hear people say that they need a diversified revenue base. Yes, and i’ve heard that for years as a fundraiser, and as in the former executive director, i used to worry about how much time and energy that talkto have more than one or two revenue streams. So a few years ago, stanford university ah did research on one hundred and forty hundred forty one non-profits that that had gotten over the fifty million dollar mark annual budget, what they discovered was a surprise that those organizations generally had a dominant source of revenue and possibly a secondary source of revenue and wasn’t as diversified as smaller non-profits but they also said that smaller non-profits still needed to diversify until they got to that plateau ah, when or they got to that level, when they could break through for a dominant source of revenue. And the reason this is interesting is that those non-profits that got over fifty million, they knew everything there was to know about that dominant source of revenue, if it was individual giving say, for example, habitat for humanity? Their dominant source of revenue is individual giving, followed by in-kind donations followed by foundations. They knew everything there was from about individual giving from ah, there first acquisition to plan giving and the whole continuum within those two ends. Yes, um, we are going, tio take a break and we’ll of course continue with lawrence, and we’ll talk a little more about the the inflexibility that we’re talking about now and that sort of tradition of of dominant source giving. But then we’re gonna move on, and we’re going to talk about what it takes for the organization, too develop within before he can get to the next level. So hang in there. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Duitz welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Lawrence paige nani is with me. He is the author of the non-profit fund-raising solution. So before the break, we were talking a little about thiss dominant source so they knew their dominant source and maybe a secondary source very well. So it’s so it’s not so bad. Teo teo, be focused that way. No. Ah, it turns out that that that there are different levels in every revenue source of from an average level two quite skilled level. What they had a have, of course, in their dominant source of revenue was they had to have deep and abiding expertise. Ah lo, staff turnover amongst the fund-raising staff was very important for those organizations because the institutional memory of with their donors had to be preserved. It’s called development for a reason it’s a developmental process. So if you’re walking the walk with a donor through their lifetime of giving, if they get comfortable with a fundraiser, the chances of that fundraiser being able to raise more money are much higher now. Of course, that’s that’s ah juxtaposed to the chronicle philanthropies article this past year, which showed that the turn of the dissatisfaction amongst fundraisers with their organizations was extremely high. Yes, and i we talked about that on the show. Did you? Yeah, i was distraught to hear that. And because fund-raising is a noble profession, and when it’s not respected, the process is not respected than people expect returns too fast, or they expect the fundraiser toe come in with donors ready to g o without having to cultivate them for your mission. And these are very irrational ideas dominate the conversations around fund-raising but it’s called development for a reason, and those non-profits that god above fifty million that had a dominant source were they had a patients to their culture, and they respected the cultivation process and they closed, you know, on on major gifts much more frequently than those that didn’t have that culture. What was the first organization that you were executive director of? Oh my, it was a soup kitchen for the homeless in richmond, virginia, and i’m guessing there are a lot of lessons you learned there. Oh, my goodness, i on the and in the book i tell the story of how i forgot about the board. No, i didn’t. I didn’t technically forget about board. I attended board meetings. I prepared my reports. I i i had the board book ready and met with the committee’s when they needed me. But in my soul they were superfluous. And what was really important was getting the programme metrics right, and getting the fundraising going. But i came to see how the board in my second executive directorship here in new york at harlem united i came to see how the board it could give the organization a gift that the ceo cannot, which is the gift of longevity and survivability. And that great word that we use in this sector. Sustainability, um, so in your ah experience in was in west virginia, richmond in virginia, at the soup kitchen. Were you sort of dragging the board along as you as you worked on the metrics that were important to you? Or you would just take kicking them? Was mohr lifestyle okay? So clicking from behind? Well, there was the italian radio, the italian right, more likable bull in a china shop. But ah, the urgency was, of course, that homelessness was extremely bad. The single room occupancy. Hotels in richmond, virginia, were closing, ah, at a rapid rate, and the homeless shelters were were increasing. So we had a a profound sense of urgency, and then right in the middle that the aids epidemic was becoming clearer to us. And so there was this sense of urgency, and we in fact founded three different organizations. Ah, as spin offs to to our non-profit but i came to see the value of board leadership and bored endorsement and and to recruit people that did add value, not everybody is meant to be a boardmember and i had made the mistake of just recruiting volunteers that had a passion for the board without necessarily having the business, talents and skills that i needed to fulfill the mission that we were, we were aimed at over ten to twenty years, and we’re going to talk later on about one of the opportunities that you’ve identified leadership counsels for maybe the type of people that you’re talking about, not suitable for the board, but have interest and passion. And so there may be another role for them. Yes, so let’s talk about the board now the board has to buy-in it’s essential at the board be developed before the organization is going to get to the next level? Oh, yes, ah, a lot of ceos inherited inherit aboard when they take a job that isn’t necessarily up for the task, and they wait on the sidelines for something magical to happen with that board, and they don’t necessarily see themselves as an intervening variable to bring the board to the next level themselves. But i recommend in my book that they do see themselves as part of the change process for the board by meeting personally with board members by recruiting people who have the skills and talents that they be delighted to have in leaders and that’s. Not all. They’re not always easy processes. They take time, but you’re trying to develop a shared vision on the board, exact between the executive leadership and the the ceo executive director and the and the volunteer leadership that’s, right? This could take a long time to align a vision it can, but there are plenty of examples where it happens rather fast. I mean the board no share one the board in richmond, virginia. The board of harlem united here in new york. They were united around the being thought leaders in the field of of ah, innovative health care for people who fell outside the health care system, the homeless and indigents. And they they i saw their revenue streams from the government, both federal and state, as needing to be reformed so that they could get the funds that were needed. For example, in nineteen ninety one there were no article, twenty eight healthcare, primary care, organised clinics for people living with aids. They were only the peruse of mental health. So what the board did with the executive staff leadership is they formed a statewide organization called the adult they healthcare coalition, and they changed the way the revenue stream were structured so that article twenty eights could include primary care for people living with aids. Article twenty eight is a federal state of new york state state health. S o that you could receive third party medicare. Reimburse oka okay, it’s, an amazing revenue stream, extremely stable. And it helped people keep people out of hospital emergency rooms so you can provide care at a much lower rate. So sometimes revenue streams have that level of complexity to them and you need a board that could understand the thinking behind them, and sometimes revenue streams are easier to understand. I mean, i think that’s why people often gravitate to foundation grants, they can look at a foundation’s website, they could understand the application process, and they throw there their hat in the ring to see if there are going to be, you know, lucky. Let zoho focus on again the achieving this shared vision across the board, so it certainly takes place in inboard recruitment board meetings and month after month, i mean what’s the what’s, the executive director’s role in trying tow, align the board with this with a common vision. Well, one of my great teachers, carl matthiasson, who was expert in board development hey used to say that a board will talk about anything and then he’d pause and he’d say, if you let them sound the point, the point was that the executive director, um, in in private dialogue with the board chair or the executive committee had to understand how to i’ll create an agenda that was consistent with where they were headed so that the organization didn’t waste a lot of times. Often times, you know, can you imagine tony in an average year, how many board meetings i sit in and listen? And so much of what boards talk about is not is inconsequential to their their deepest desires and goals, paperclips and on dh office supplies a cz one example, you know, thinking ok and no on the worst, and the executive director doesn’t want to be micromanaged, you know, you hear that language a lot. Of course. On the other hand, the executive director is under macro managing and thie opposite, of course, of micro management is macro management and macro management is about the strategic alliance of the vision and here’s, where you see a lot of executive director’s check out the and it leaves them vulnerable to being micromanaged. So i encourage in the book for the culture of a board to be robust and that the ceo see him or herself as part of a shaper or leader in that now lot of non-profit see, youse will read that and they would go well dahna you know, i’ve been doing of course i’ve been doing that for years, but when you look across the sector that’s not necessarily the habit off many ceos. They they often see themselves as just employees of the board and they and they abdicate that board leadership responsibility. Yes, even though they’re not the named chair of the board. But you’re advocating that they still have a strong role in board leadership that’s, right? And some ceos who were former program directors and then that he became the ceo. Ah, they’re not by their character change agents. So what i’m describing is a character of a ceo that’s really a change agent because i’m interested in high performing non-profits that that solve the social problem that they set out to solve, whether it be reducing teen pregnancies or having more kids get through the school system successfully or or adult employment, for example? Um, so those ceos of those kinds of organizations generally are changing agents and it’s not to say there’s something bad about the ceos are not it’s just that i think that they have to think about, ah, different place in the sector that might be better suited for their skills and talents. Okay, let’s, talk briefly about the gift of significance that you recommend from, um, from board members and you in the book, you have a calculation for what that ought to be boardmember boardmember and we don’t really have a chance to go through that calculation, but what? What? Why not a significant gift? Why? Why is it a gift of significance? Well, that’s a significant point, most boards think about board trust e-giving as giver get, um dahna and then there’s a third part of that is unsaid, which is give, get or get off, get off! So i never liked that, and i taught at the united way here in new york city for many years, i taught their board seminar and and did the given get policies and there’s wisdom to that, and i’m not opposed to give and get policies, but i think there’s a ah much more thoughtful way to engage the process, which is to have a conversation about a gift of significance. What for you when you look at your philanthropic giving in the past few years, given your current income, what is a significant gift that stands out amongst all your, um, you’re you’re you’re giving and the reason that this is a particularly good approach for trustee is that a trustee is stepping up in a leadership capacity toe inspire other donors to give by their giving, and they have to see the connection between how they think about they’re giving and what they want the donors of the organization to do. Because the development director or the vice president, institutional advancement or the ceo needs to say my trustees have stepped up, they’ve made leadership gifts one hundred percent a hundred percent they khun cumulatively give um, you know, twenty six thousand seven hundred fifty three dollars, i’m that precise when i calculate the cumulative giving of aboard and reported back to donors and the donor’s often laugh, but i’d rather give them the real numbers to know that this is a real process if you’re if their boat donors of your trustees on your board, that can’t give a gift of significance, that’s not sure everybody can give a gift or significance. I mean, i’ve had its what’s significant to them. Exactly. I’ve had consumers of services that that social work, term consumers or program members on the boards that i’ve worked at, and and i’ve used the same principle with them it could. Be five dollars could be fifty dollars, but for them, it’s a significant gift and it’s in phrasing it that way is a gift of significance. It captures the energy that we’re looking for around thinking about being a fund-raising leader and of course, ideally too from time to time, you want to ask the board to stretch beyond their normal giving, which is when you’re in a campaign or ah, special drive or there’s an anniversary, things like that. So continuing with some of the strategies that you recommend you like, like parlor gatherings over what’s, a parlor gathering could be in an office conference room could be in your living room. Ah, parties with a purpose is that is the general frays, and the purpose is the benevolence that the party ah it’s, not a party for a party sake it’s a party for a purpose and the purpose is to sponsor and endorse and give money to the charity that is is the primary focus. They’re ninety minute gatherings. I describe the actual methods and rollout and is very user friendly chapter but ah lot of organizations keep waiting for that moment when they’re going to go. To the next level and fund-raising courses of practitioners art so here in the parties where the purpose you see avery practical method that you could roll out in two to three months, sixty to ninety days. In fact, one of the smaller non-profits that listens to your radio program read the book their whole development committee. They’re all volunteers. Well, i love them because they’re listening. Yes, i don’t care what they do fund-raising wise. Frankly, lawrence, i don’t care if they bought your book or not. They’re there listening to the show that you could stop there. I love them. Whoever you are, we love you. You know who you are. We love you. I’m sorry. I know it’s true. And they they are going to do a party when they called. I said i’ll give you a free as i do anybody, i give anybody of free forty minute phone conversation about questions they have about the book. Or i also come into organizations to meet with the development team or aboard team anyway. So i gave them a free consultation and they wanted to do a party with a purpose in the future. And i said, oh, no, we’re going to have it before the year. And we’re doing it now. And they’re going to be doing it right after between christmas and new year’s. Excellent. Excellent, indeed. Love lawrence paige, nani this’s uh, thiss was this a very, very good show? He’s, you should get this book if you don’t have it non-profit fund-raising solution. You ought to tony’s take two and more with lawrence coming up first, i’m going to chat about pursuant because they have a tool called billboard, and it helps you manage your communications. Naturally, you are multi-channel email landing pages, micro sites, donation forms, et cetera. The social networks don’t separate those integrate. I thought of that myself. I think i might, you know, it’s been a few weeks business since i’ve been in the studio because i was away, but i believe i said that a couple weeks ago don’t separate into great because billboard is integrated communications management puts all these tools and that all these channels together into one management tool and not only management but also analytics so that you know which of your channels our most effective because after well, depending on how many campaigns you do and and how engaged you are might be after three months, you want to look back, but if not if you’re not that prolific, maybe after a year. Or so you want to look back and see what’s been the most effective? The analytics will answer that then you find tune and you improve and you raise more money or get more volunteers or have more successful events, whatever it is you’re engaging for, you’ll do it better with the unified, integrated management and the analytics that go with billboard. So if you want to improve your engagement, your outreach, check out billboard at pursuant dot com really pursuing is a perfect sponsor for small and midsize non-profits our listeners obviously say it all the time because they have these tools that you can use separately online or, you know you can choose ah, larger suite of tools together or at the highest level, you know, they actually do on site, you know, campaign consulting, live bodies, helping you manage your campaign, so but you don’t have to go that far, so i just think they’re perfect, you know, sort of ala carte and i love the ceo trent chant ryker has a background in non-profits and recognizes the challenges that small and midsize shops are facing around fund-raising and engagement. Pursuant, dot com i’ve got video from venice, the net cia. I was there last week. Oh my goodness! Ah, in fact, exactly this time last week, there are gondolier is in the background, so you got to check that out and i’m talking about how you keep your plans e-giving above water, you do it by cultivating and soliciting the right prospects. The video with the gondolier ears is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, second of october thirty ninth show of the year. Let’s, get back to lorenzo panjwani let’s talk more about parlor gatherings. Lawrence, you do is a very, very askew, said user friendly chapter you have a lot of very robust advice, and i’ve always liked the idea of a small, intimate gathering, so we’re going to focus on my prejudice for these types of events, not to the exclusion well here on the show, and we don’t have a chance to talk about everything all the strategies that you have in the book, but the book is full of lots of fund-raising strategies i happen to like the i never heard them called parlor gatherings, but i like i like that idea. Um, who should host these thes parlor gatherings? Generally? There’s one one host who has a good network of friends, were colleagues, family members and in turn out twenty five to thirty people. Um, i’ve been it parties where the purpose parlor gatherings that have as much money as seventy five that’s a big parlour, yeah, but they have, you know, they’re people with big names, and they have big networks and s o mostly, the host is responsible for inviting the guests, mostly the host. Now, in some organizations where our host doesn’t feel that they could deliver twenty five to thirty, people, maybe they have a co host or i’ve done three hosts and each of them commit delivering, you know, ten people and and that’s worked very well, especially because they’ve had the support and partnership of two other people that they like and they’re going to do it together, and they see it as a ah fun thing to do. I love the fact that most of the the expense budgets on parlor gatherings are a couple hundred dollars. We don’t put out a lot of fancy food we use cheap. Wine or no wine at all, depending on the organization that always has to be thought through. Um, and we don’t spend money on trinkets or literature. Um, um if the if the host once, um ah, paper invitations as opposed to just using ah elektronik invitation service, like ping ah, the host then has to pay for the cost of that, not the organization. And, um and as i said, they are usually planned in sixty to ninety days. Okay? And you want you want nobody to talk for more than five minutes? That’s, right? Who? You should talk. Well, it has to be somebody. Ah, that that people can emotionally connect with generally a client or consumer who is prepared to deliver, um and it’s comfortable talking to a group of those could be very tender, intimate moments when it’s, when it’s someone who’s benefiting from the services of the organization. That’s, right, it’s seen i’ve seen tears in in colleges, scholarship recipients. But the cause is something causes you mentioned run much more deeply even than education. Yeah, i people who have healed from years of recovery. People who have been supported in their process of coming out of jails and prisons, people who i have ah been through adoption processes, i mean, their stories are extremely powerful, and telling a story is what you need to help them work on and prepare for, so that they have some flare on some theatrics to it where the the audience makes eye contact with them, and that that they have good hand gestures and that they’re articulate and everybody, of course, has their own style. I’ve been where some climb i’ve been to some parties with a purpose where the clients are very studio vote j and they have a quiet manner, but nonetheless, your grandmother would appreciate it slipping little italian, italian and there you are, italian listeners. Ah, they’re they’re quieter in their presentation, but nonetheless still powerful because they prepared still very moving, very moving video is often good at larger events, but in smaller events ah, the intimacy of the smaller room gives gives good stage two to two personal witness who else should be talking? Well? The the some official from the organization of boardmember or volunteer or staff member ceo doesn’t have to be to say, you know, no, the ceo is more than happy, more than welcome to think of him or herself, but again in a high functioning fund-raising culture, everybody should be empowered to talk about the money and teo, talk about the money in a way that that other people get it and doesn’t have to be the ceo there. There’s a one of the stories i tell in the book is a first party with a purpose for a small agency in brooklyn substance abuse recovery agency. They never did any private fund-raising they’d always relied on government grants and their first time out, they raised twenty six, twenty seven thousand dollars. They had two clients tell their story and ah, boardmember, who never saw herself as a fundraiser, stood up and was crying after listening to the two consumers tell their story, and she burst out with a five thousand dollar pledge and somebody else in the room matched it, and none of that was prepared. But it was prepared conceptually because we do have a bias in who we invite, that we try to invite people that we know something about, that they have some means now we’re not. We’re not strict about that, but we do ask the question, ahn do seek people who have that some level of affluence now, a lot of smaller non-profits say right off the bat, i don’t know anybody, you know, with the level of affluence, and i say, okay, well, let’s work with what we have, and but amazingly they always find somebody who writes that eighty percent of the rooms check on dh rehearsing you like tio, you’d like to rehearse. These rehearsing is very important, you know, the penultimate example of steve jobs that before he passed away at at apple, his his launches of new products were legendary, right? That he practiced those for weeks six, seven weeks every single day of running the whole team through rehearsals and himself, and anything worth goat doing is worth practising foreign preparing well for so don’t think you could just, like, call the client up the night before and say, would you speak tomorrow at our, you know, party with a purpose? That’s not the way to do it? And what about the important follow-up to your parlor gatherings? Well, ah, part of the second speaker or the third speakers role is to ask for funds. And and ah, pledge form has handed out, and some people fill it out right there and it’s collected as people leave, and for those that don’t hand the pledge, forman follow-up is necessary first of all, follow-up is necessary for everybody to say thank you way we have a rule of sending out our thank you notes and forty eight hours ah, business hours, which a lot of non-profits find, you know, really? Ah, hi rule to meet, but we think it’s important that people get both paper and email, thank you’s, and they get a cumulative understanding of what happened at the party because a lot of donors are going to leave and they’re not going to know the cumulative results that they participated in that twenty six or twenty seven thousand or five thousand or twenty five hundred was raised whenever share that impact you want to share that impact and you want to be let people feel the good vibes of that they participated in, that they made it happen. And so the thank you notes need to go out the the results need to be go out by both female and paper and then of course the e-giving history needs to be recorded in your database and there’s no excuse for a non-profit whether they’re volunteer with no budget, not having a database, as i say in the book, you can go to e base dot or get a free database that was developed by the rockefeller family foundation at my website for the book the non-profit fund-raising solution dot com there’s links to free databases, or you could just use a good excel spreadsheet and stay organized or an access that a base that’s comes with your you know, your computer there’s no excuse thes days for you don’t have toe spend, you know, ten thousand a month with razors, edge or something? Thank you for sharing those resources to leadership councils we alluded to these earlier what’s the role of a leadership council. Well, a non-profit has a board that that worries about its governance. Generally we say that the executive staff is supposed to be worried about one, two, three years of management, and the board should be thinking about five to ten years. The pentagon, of course, has a seventy five year strategic plan, so they know where they’re going to. Be, i would like our sector to know a lot more about where it’s going to be, but no pat, no matter how powerful your board is, you still need mork community endorsement for your organization and the leadership council gives you that it’s a non governance structure. Some people call it honorary councils or advisory councils. I like the term leadership council because it’s, what we’re looking for, we’re looking for them to be leaders and sometimes those leaders khun step up and say things that your board can’t say, or your executive staff can’t say about your cause. And as we saw this pit last year or two years ago with planned parenthood, there were many people on its leadership council who spoke up in their defense where they’re bored, needed to keep ah quieter, acquired or voice so leadership councils are very important, and sometimes you put people on leadership councils who don’t want to do the heavy lifting of governance, and sometimes you put them on because you have good feelings about how they love your organization and you want to maintain that relationship, but they’re not appropriate for the board. So it’s a it’s a mix of characters, we’ll take a break for a couple minutes, keep talking about leadership councils and i’m going to do live listener love i gotta start with where i’m going to be next week. Mexico city, mexico welcome ola kato. I’m going to be there next week for opportunity collaboration, which used to be a sponsor of the show, actually staying over just overnight in mexico city and then flying the next day to x stop, where the opportunity collaboration unconference is going to be new york, new york live listener loved to you also to st louis, missouri, brooklyn, new york and wilmington, north carolina live listener love to each location each person forget the location the love goes to the person not to their office or their building or their block it’s to you heart to heart live listener love beijing beijing is frequent listening. Beijing thank you very much. Niehaus and seoul, south korea also so grateful for the loyalty coming from seoul on your haserot affiliate affections to our many affiliate listeners throughout the country at our am and fm affiliate stations and we’re going to have some new ones to announce. Give me a couple weeks we got some announcements coming up, but in the meantime, everybody who’s listening now from all our am and fm stations affections out to you and, of course, the all important podcast pleasantries for the over ten thousand people we know who listen, whatever device that whatever time, doing whatever activity podcast pleasantries to you, let’s, take a break, and then we go right back into lawrence paige nani like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that or an a a me levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals. Just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week, and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Oppcoll what is our leadership council going to do? I lied endorse for legitimacy, credibility there, there to say, we like these guys what they’re doing, we endorse and it there’s power by that association with their name, and they don’t even have to do anything just to have that happen. We do want people to do things on the leadership council. They’re generally a couple things. We want them to come to an annual gathering of the leadership council so that they could get their own personal update about the organization. Secondly, we want them to to meet with us individually, us being the development ofthis war, the executive office. We want to meet with them individually to talk about their own gift to the organization, plus their network of possibly doing guess what? Ah, party with a purpose for their network. So there’s a lot of in few inches integration of the tactics in part two of the book, while part one is all about the way you think about fund-raising part two is all about the the inter marriage of various tactics. For example, in a leadership council, i think i mentioned this in the plan giving chapter. You could have a leadership council just for the people who are part of the plane. Get me that there is a chapter devoted to plan giving their importance. Only reason. Lawrence’s here. We’re not talking about that chapter three. Only thing that drew me to the book. I read it from backward. I read. I read that chapter first. The plan giving is ah, well, many times non-profits overlook having a plan giving society for there the donors that that give through their bequests or their wills or insurance policies or whatever the mechanism and having a leadership council of your plan giving group is very important. Ah, there was a small client i worked with here in east haven, connecticut. The shoreline trolley museum. They’re in the in the midst of closing on a two million dollar campaign so that they could have proper buildings for their antique trolleys. They have one hundred antique trolleys which tell the story of the trolleys from the eighteen hundreds. Amazing place. My kids love it and the they never had paid attention to their legacy. There they’re playing e-giving ah, donors and we started to talk to them or and organized that group and they have a leadership council now off their plan giving donor and twenty, twenty one people joined the first year. And i think four five have joined the second year, and they were unsung people who had thought about e-giving for the future where i think you would know better than i. But something like a low seven percent of people think about a plan gift. Whereas in there course of their life, like eighty five or ninety percent of people think about giving. But upon their death, they generally just leave their money to their to their family. Yeah, there’s. Some small percentage of people that have, ah, charitable bequest in there will yes, when the leadership council is advocating an endorsing, who were they advocating in endorsing, too? Ah, to the press to other thought leaders conferences during the height of the aids epidemic, the leadership council that i put together at harlem united many of those leaders would would mention in their addresses about aids and howto compassionately respond. They would mention that they were on the honoree council of harlem united. It meant it meant legitimacy for them and for us that they would mention that it worked both ways you had ah, leadership council, you said in the book that had fifty five members? Oh, yes, what that sounds huge. Yes, and i had the same response to the ceo, and he turned around and said, but look at my mission, i’m i have to represent, you know, thiss whole county and there were, i don’t know twenty four, five smaller towns in this county, and he represented three sectors, not just the nonprofit sector, but government and business and real estate was a big factor of that. So he needed a large counsel, and he saw the wisdom of that, and he i actually had a staff member hired to manage that leadership council, and it brought him it was a wise move. Um, it brought him a lot of impact because he he didn’t neglect his leadership council. A lot of times leadership, council’s air started. I see i go in and, um, auditing and organization and i look at their letterhead, and i see i say, oh, you have an advisory council says here? Well, yeah, but not really learns i said, what do you mean? Well, we really don’t you know, that was a couple years ago, and it was so and so’s idea and and it’s just fallen by the wayside. You see there’s an example where the culture of the organization didn’t embrace the tactic tactics don’t raise money? Yeah, excellent on their own, they need a culture to nest in and if they’re if they’re if the tactic is in an organization where the where it’s loved and cared for it then produces results, so then they get the crazy idea that, oh, well, the leadership council never really did raise much money for us, totally disassociating themselves from lack of developing it and creating a plan for it. At harlem united, our leadership council was reviewed every year, and the plan was updated and revised and evaluated, and that was brought to the boardmember that the board? I’m sorry at a board meeting, we we always had cochairs for the leadership council, male and female, pretty consistent about that for capital campaigns, male and female leaders of the campaign cabinet and those two leaders i would invite to come in and give a state of the union of the our leadership council to the board and it was, and the board members would go to the annual gathering of the leadership council. The board members were asked to do that. And so there was nice synergy and harmony there no competition. We have just about a minute and a half before to wrap up, and so i want to spend that time asking what it is that you love about the work that you do well, fund-raising is a noble profession and it’s a bridge builder between the idea that you have that will make the world a better place and the money you need to actualize the program. And so the methods of fund-raising are build that bridge, and and you love building bridges, and absolutely one of my old teachers used to say, if you build bridges don’t don’t be surprised when people walk on them or walk over you, but nonetheless fund-raising is that bridge between the non-profits idea and the reality of making it happen? Lots of very good ideas in the book it is the non-profit fund-raising solution powerful revenue strategy is to take you to the next level. Lawrence paige nani lawrence’s l a u r e n c e panjwani perfect. Thank you so much for being guests. Been a pleasure. I’ve been delighted to be here. And i wanna shout out just quickly to all by blogged readers. About forty, five hundred of them raise your block non-profit fund-raising solution dot com and you can sign up there to be on the block. Outstanding. Thank you again. Thank you. Yes, thank you, lorenzo. So more live. Listen, love while we were doing it the last time a couple of countries checked in india live listen love to you and and tokyo tokyo loyal listeners thank you very, very much konnichi wa. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com where in the world else would you go next? Week’s show claire meyerhoff is with me for our discussion of your plant e-giving legacy society hint. We don’t really like the phrase legacy society pursuant full service fund-raising you’ll raise bags more money i’m not talking about those little court bags that you put your three ounce shampoo in when you fly. I’m talking about duffel bags like the marines carry onto those c one thirties when they’re going overseas. Filled with money pursuant dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez. Susan chavez. Dot com on our music is by scott stein, thank you for that information. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Buy-in you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way.

Nonprofit Radio for November 8, 2013: Getting To The Next Level

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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My Guest:

Laurence Pagnoni: Getting To The Next Level

Laurence Pagnoni largeLaurence Pagnoni is author of “The Nonprofit Fundraising Solution.” Based on his work as an executive director and fundraising consultant, he has proven strategies to get you to the next level of fundraising revenue.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, you know, i hope you were with me last week. I’d suffer falik yah leitess. If it came to my attention that you had missed priscilla rosenwald, author of when leaders leave, she talked us through her smart tips to plan and execute smooth leadership transitions this week, getting to the next level. Lawrence paige nani is author of the fund-raising the non-profit fund-raising solution based on his work as an executive director and fund-raising consultant, he has proven strategies to get you to the next level of fund-raising revenue halfway through the show on tony’s take two i have a charity registration reminder for you. I’m wagging my finger. We’re sponsored by rally bound, simple, reliable peer-to-peer fund-raising software rally bound dot com i’m very pleased that lawrence paige no knees book and his work bring him to the studio. He has spent twenty five years in the nonprofit sector and was an executive director of three non-profits he’s been a faculty member at the gnu heimans center for philanthropy and fund-raising we’ve had guests from there. And the coach is a group of executive directors with the rutgers business schools institute for ethical leadership. His book is the non-profit fund-raising solution. Powerful revenue strategies to take you to the next level. Lorts back. Tony, welcome to the studio. Thank you so much. I’m glad to be here. It’s. A real pleasure to have, you know, i love having live in studio guest. It just makes it that much more special. Congratulations on the book, it’s. Just it’s out this month, right? Yes, just a few weeks ago. And and delighted it. Dafs has robust sales so far. Excellent. Very good for you. I have to ask you this. I’ve wondered about this since i first saw your name, which is years. Why isn’t it panjwani wipe agnone? How did you i’m not martignetti why did you? Somewhere along the lineage, you went to pack no knee. Well, had that happened? It’s, my grand. My grandmother would like your question. It’s, lorenzo, antonio peggy oni that’s your your it’s, like a little birdie operate you’re you’re ah, expression of it is accurate. And but, you know, in american vernacular gets paige no knee. I hate that. I hate that your grandmother would love the pan uni i was a beautiful name. It is operatic. Um, the non-profit fund-raising solution. What is the problem? Well, under capitalization of the sector plagues more than seventy seven percent of non-profits they have a vision, but they don’t have the money to implement it. And many organizations spend years on a plateau under two hundred fifty thousand dollars trying to execute their vision for some small non-profits ah, humble budget is more than adequate and they’re doing good services and they are meeting their vision so don’t mean to imply that you need money too do your work and they’re amazing volunteer organizations. But for those organizations that that need money, i wrote the book in that spirit of trying to help them tio, to go to the next level which is such a ubiquitous question. I mean, i get that a lot on dh. I work only really in the planned e-giving and the charity registration niches. But even i am asked a lot, you know? How do we get to the next level? Can you help us get to the next level? So there are a lot of organizations that do want to go to increased fund-raising revenue it’s the number one question i get when i give seminars or oppcoll public trainings, and somebody inevitably will wander up to that micah’s i say in the introduction, and and ask me, how do you get to the next level? And on the one hand it’s a poetic question, but on the other hand, it’s for my sensibilities, it’s a business question with mathematical methods behind it, and the book tries to explain, um, that if you get your leadership understanding the vision for what the next level looks like if the board supports that vision, if you think about hyre level strategies and you work on changing the culture of your organization so that the organisational development matches that vision that’s the foundation there’s four aspects are the foundation for going to the next level, and then the rest is tactical most fund-raising is tactical. The strategy comes from the organization, and we’re gonna have time to talk about the organisational development as well as the strategies and tactics were because i love that we have the full hour together, so the symptoms of this problem are mean. Ah, event to event fund-raising or maybe sole source revenue streams? Yeah, most foundation grants have ah, three year limit. There are some exceptions to that, of course, places like the robin hood foundation, which see themselves as long term partners. Um, but event to event without any cash reserves. Um, and some organizations just go year two year like that and and and make do and with a little bit of luck and and providence, they they squeak by, but it’s hard to plan having an impact on your mission and on the sector, the the field of service, if you will, that you’ve chosen if you really want to help at risk kids, i have a better chance at getting into college or getting the right on the right employment that’s a great example, because it’s exactly it’s for you you do have to plan for years that’s a life cycle of a child. And if you’re you know, as you say, just getting by year to year, how can you plan for that child’s future? You can’t. You can’t plan for your own that’s, right? Um, do you think that since we see such a reliance on events i have a theory i don’t, but you khun you’re free to disagree that the reliance on events is so that people can avoid what they fear, which is having to sit across the table from someone and looked him in the eye and ask them for a gift. Well, it’s, funny as best as i understand it, and i’m always learning events were buy-in the history of them goes back to having an opportunity to thank your individual donors, they weren’t actually fundraisers unto themselves, and then they course morphed into that when in fund-raising when the event ah, is linked to individual giving and get in to get the individual giving program, they always raise more money, because the point is that the twenty percent of your individual donor base who gives eighty percent generally on your revenue since the recession, we see it’s maybe seventy, thirty um they need to be talked to individually and thoughtfully, and having tough conversations with donors is part of that territory, and i think a lot of people are, um, are shy about that. Money, of course, is one of the great taboos of life and so it’s fraught with ah, emotional issues. Um, you allude to cem cem research done by stanford about the dominant revenue source? We’ll flush that after us. Sure. Well, you often hear people say that they need a diversified revenue base. Yes, and i’ve heard that for years as a fundraiser, and as in the former executive director, i used to worry about how much time and energy that talkto have more than one or two revenue streams. So a few years ago, stanford university ah did research on one hundred and forty hundred forty one non-profits that that had gotten over the fifty million dollar, more annual budget, what they discovered was a surprise that those organizations generally had a dominant source of revenue and possibly a secondary source of revenue and wasn’t as diversified as smaller non-profits but they also said that smaller non-profits still needed to diversify until they got to that plateau ah, when or they got to that level, when they could break through for a dominant source of revenue. And the reason this is interesting is that those non-profits that got over fifty million, they knew everything there was to know about that dominant source of revenue if it was individual giving, say, for example, habitat for humanity. Their dominant source of revenue is individual giving, followed by in-kind donations, followed by foundations. They knew everything there was from about individual giving from ah, there, first acquisition, to plan giving and the whole continuum within those two ends. Yes, um, we are going, tio, take a break, and we’ll of course, continue with lawrence, and we’ll talk a little more about the the inflexibility that we’re talking about now and that sort of tradition of of dominant source giving. But then we’re gonna move on, and we’re going to talk about what it takes for the organization, too. Develop within before he can get to the next level. So hang in there. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe. Right groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. Larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower, radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Lawrence paige nani is with me. He is the author of the non-profit fund-raising solution. So before the break, we were talking a little about thiss dominant source so they knew their dominant source and maybe a secondary source very well. So it’s so it’s not so bad. Teo teo, be focused that way. No. Ah, it turns out that that that there are different levels in every revenue source of from an average level two quite skilled level. What they had a have, of course, in their dominant source of revenue was they had to have deep and abiding expertise. Ah lo, staff turnover amongst the fund-raising staff was very important for those organizations because the institutional memory of with their donors had to be preserved. It’s called development for a reason it’s a developmental process. So if you’re walking the walk with a donor through their lifetime of giving, if they get comfortable with a fundraiser, the chances of that fundraiser being able to raise more money are much higher now. Of course, that’s that’s ah juxtaposed to the chronicle philanthropies article this past year, which showed that the turn of the dissatisfaction amongst fundraisers with their organizations was extremely high. Yes, and i we talked about that on the show. Did you? Yeah, i was distraught to hear that. And because fund-raising is a noble profession, and when it’s not respected, the process is not respected than people expect returns too fast. Or they expect the fundraiser toe come in with donor’s ready to g o without having to cultivate them for your mission. And these are very irrational ideas dominate the conversations around fund-raising but it’s called development for a reason, and those non-profits that god above fifty million that had a dominant source were they had a patients to their culture, and they respected the cultivation process and they closed, you know, on on major gifts much more frequently than those that didn’t have that culture. What was the first organization that you were executive director of? Oh my, it was a soup kitchen for the homeless in richmond, virginia. And i’m guessing there are a lot of lessons you learned there. Oh, my goodness. I i on the in the book, i tell the story of how i forgot about the board. No, i didn’t. I didn’t technically forget about board. I attended board meetings. I prepared my reports. I i had the board book ready and met with the committee’s when they needed me, but in my soul they were superfluous, and what was really important was getting the programme metrics right and getting the fundraising going. But i came to see how the board ah, in my second executive directorship, here in new york, at harlem united, i came to see how the board khun give the organization a gift that the ceo cannot, which is the gift of longevity and survivability, and that great word that we use in the sector sustainability. So in your experience in west virginia, richmond in virginia, at the soup kitchen, were you sort of dragging the board along as you as you worked on the metrics that were important to you or you would just take kicking them was more my style. Okay, so clicking from behind? Well, there was the italian radio, the italian, more likable bull in a china shop. But ah, the urgency was, of course, that homelessness was extremely bad. The single room occupancy hotels in richmond, virginia, were closing. Ah, at a rapid rate, and the homeless shelters were were increasing. So we had a profound sense of urgency, and then right in the middle that the aids epidemic was becoming clearer to us. And so there was this sense of urgency, and we in fact founded three different organizations. Ah, as spin offs to to our non-profit but i came to see the value of board leadership and bored endorsement and and to recruit people that did add value. Not everybody is meant to be a boardmember and i had made the mistake of just recruiting volunteers that had a passion for the board without necessarily having the business talents. And skills that i needed to fulfill the mission that we were we were aimed at over ten to twenty years, and we’re going to talk later on about one of the opportunities that you’ve identified leadership counsels for maybe the type of people that you’re talking about not suitable for the board but have interest and passion. And so there may be another role for them. Yes, so let’s talk about the board now the board has to metoo it’s essential at the board be developed before the organization is going to get to the next level? Oh, yes, ah, a lot of ceos inherited inherit aboard when they take a job that isn’t necessarily up for the task, and they wait on the sidelines for something magical to happen with that board, and they don’t necessarily see themselves as an intervening variable to bring the board to the next level themselves. But i recommend in my book that they do see themselves as part of the change process for the board by meeting personally with board members by recruiting people who have the skills and talents that they be delighted to have in leaders and that’s not all. They’re not always easy processes. They take time, but you’re trying to develop a shared vision on the board, exact between the executive leadership and the the ceo executive director and the and the volunteer leadership that’s. Right? This could take a long time to align a vision. It can, but there are plenty of examples where it happens rather fast. I mean, the board share one. The board in richmond, virginia. The board of harlem united here in new york. They were united around the being thought leaders in the field of of ah, innovative health care for people who fell outside the health care system, the homeless and indigents. And they they i saw their revenue streams from the government, both federal and state, as needing to be reformed so that they could get the funds that were needed. For example, in nineteen ninety one there were no article, twenty eight healthcare, primary care, organised clinics. For people living with aids, they were only the peruse of mental health. So what the board did with the executive staff leadership is they formed a statewide organization called the adult they healthcare coalition. And they changed the way the revenue. Stream was structure so that article twenty eights could include primary care for people living with aids. Article twenty eight is a federal state of new york state state health. S o that you could receive third party medicare reimburse oka okay, it’s. An amazing revenue stream, extremely stable. And it helped people keep people out of hospital emergency rooms so you can provide care at a much lower rate. So sometimes revenue streams have that level of complexity to them. And you need a board that could understand the thinking behind them. And sometimes revenue streams are easier to understand. I mean, i think that’s why people often gravitate to foundation grants. They can look at a foundation’s website. They could understand the application process, and they throw there their hat in the ring to see if there are going to be, you know, lucky. Let zoho focus on again the achieving this shared vision across the board. So it certainly takes place in inboard recruitment board meetings and month after month. I mean what’s the what’s, the executive director’s role in trying tow align the board with this with a common vision. Well, one of my great teachers carl matthiasson, who was expert in board development hey used to say that a board will talk about anything and then he’d pause and he’d say, if you let them sound the point, the point was that the executive director, um, in in private dialogue with the board chair or the executive committee had to understand how to create an agenda that was consistent with where they were headed so that the organization didn’t waste a lot of time often times, you know, can you imagine tony in an average year, how many board meetings i sit in and listen? And so much of what boards talk about is not is in concert sequential to their their deepest desires and goals, paperclips and on dh office supplies a cz one example, you know, thinking ok and no on the worst, and the executive director doesn’t want to be micromanaged, you know, you hear that language a lot. Of course. On the other hand, the executive director is under macro managing, you know, and the the opposite, of course, of micro management is macro management and macro management is about the strategic alliance of the vision and here’s where you see a lot of executive director’s check out the and it leaves them vulnerable to being micromanaged, so i encourage in the book for the culture of a board to be robust and that the ceo see him or herself as part of a shaper or leader in that now lot of non-profit see, youse will read that and they would go well dahna you know, i’ve been doing of course i’ve been doing that for years, but when you look across the sector that’s not necessarily the habit off many ceos, they they often see themselves as just employees of the board and they and they abdicate that board leadership responsibility, yes, even though they’re not the named chair of the board, but you’re advocating that they still have a strong role in board leadership that’s, right? And some ceos who were former program directors and then that he became the ceo, they’re not by their character change agents. So what i’m describing is a character of a ceo that’s really a change agent because i’m interested in high performing non-profits that that solve the social problem that they set out to solve, whether it be reducing teen pregnancies or having more kids get through the school system successfully or or adult employment, for example. Um, so those ceos of those kinds of organizations generally are change agents and it’s not to say there’s something bad about the ceos are not it’s, just that i think that they have to think about a different place in the sector that might be better suited for their skills and talents. Okay, let’s, talk briefly about the gift of significance that you recommend from, um, from board members and you in the book, you have a calculation for what that ought to be boardmember boardmember and we don’t really have a chance to go through that calculation. But what? What? Why not a significant gift? Why? Why is it a gift of significance? Well, that’s a significant point. Most boards think about board trustee e-giving as giver. Get, um, and then there’s a third part of that is unsaid, which is give, get or get off. Get off! So i never liked that. And i taught at the united way here in new york city for many years i taught their board seminar and and did the given get policies and there’s wisdom? To that, and i’m not opposed to give and get policies, but i think there’s a ah much more thoughtful way to engage the process, which is to have a conversation about a gift of significance. What for you when you look at your philanthropic giving in the past few years, given your current income, what is a significant gift that stands out amongst all your, um, you’re you’re giving and the reason that this is a particularly good approach for trustee is that a trustee is stepping up in a leadership capacity toe inspire other donors to give by their giving, and they have to see the connection between how they think about their giving and what they want. The donors of the organization i do because the development director or the vice president, institutional advancement or the ceo needs to say my trustees have stepped up, they’ve made leadership gifts one hundred percent a hundred percent they khun cumulatively give um, you know, twenty six thousand seven hundred fifty three dollars, i’m that precise when i calculate the cumulative giving of aboard and reported back to two donors and the donor’s often laugh, but i’d rather give them. The real numbers to know that this is a real process if you’re if their boat donors of your trustees on your board, that can’t give a gift of significance. That’s not true, everybody can give a gift or significance. I mean, i’ve had its what’s significant to that exactly. I’ve had consumers of services that that social work, term consumers or program members on the boards that i’ve worked at, and and i’ve used the same principle with them, it could be five dollars could be fifty dollars, but for them, it’s a significant gift and it’s in phrasing it that way is a gift of significance. It captures the energy that we’re looking for around thinking about being ah fund-raising leader and, of course, ideally, too, from time to time, you want to ask the board to stretch beyond their normal giving, which is when you’re in a campaign or ah, special drive or there’s an anniversary, things like that. So continuing with some of the strategies that you recommend, um, you like like parlor gatherings over what’s a parlor gathering could be in an office conference room could be in your living room. Ah, parties with a purpose is, that is the general frays, and the purpose is the benevolence that the party ah it’s, not a party for a party sake it’s a party for a purpose. And the purpose is to sponsor and endorse and give money to the charity that it is. Ah, is the primary focus? They’re ninety minute gatherings. I describe the actual methods and rollout and is very user friendly chapter but ah lot of organizations keep waiting for that moment when they’re going to go to the next level and fund-raising, of course, is a practitioners art so here in the parties where the purpose you see avery practical method that you could roll out in two to three months, sixty to ninety days in fact, one of the smaller non-profits that listens to your radio program read the book their whole development committee. They’re all volunteers. Well, i love them because they’re listening. Yes, i don’t care what they do fund-raising wise. Frankly, lawrence, i don’t care if they bought your book or not. They’re there listening to the show that you could stop there. I love them, whoever you are, we love you. You know who you are. We love you, i’m sorry, i know it’s true and they they are going to do a party that when they called, i said, i’ll give you a free as i do anybody, i give anybody of free ah forty minute phone conversation about questions they have about the book, or i also come into organizations to meet with the development team or aboard team anyway, so i gave them a free consultation and they wanted to do a party with a purpose in the future, and i said, oh no, we’re going to have it before the year and we’re doing it now, and they’re going to be doing it right after between christmas and new year’s. Excellent. We gotta take a break when we come back tony’s take too. I’m wagging my finger about charity registration, and of course, laurence and i are going to keep talking about party gatherings and leadership. Council’s, hang in there with us. You couldn’t do anything to getting dink dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz e-giving e-giving good. 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M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Kayman hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re not live today, so i can’t send literal live listener love, but i bet i can guess who the live listeners are. New york, new york, california, oregon, texas, massachusetts has been checking in lately live listener love to everybody from those states and everyone else who is listening live and of course, going abroad are very regular listeners from japan, china and korea live listener love to you as well. Podcast pleasantries to the nine thousand of you listening through itunes stitcher player fm podcast dot d in germany, we have a lot of listeners in germany podcast pleasantries to everybody listening to the podcast tony’s take two. Are you properly registered in each state where you’re soliciting donations? I asked that question often you should be think of a massachusetts charity that sends email to connecticut and u s mail into new york to solicit donations that charity needs to be registered in massachusetts and connecticut and new york. Do you have a donate now button? Are you accepting gifts online in about half the states? It’s kind of a fuzzy area, but about half the states when that donate now button goes live you’re deemed to be soliciting and it doesn’t matter whether anybody ever clicks on it. It’s it’s the solicitation going out through the live donate now button that is what triggers the charity registration laws in a lot of states. I’m building an online solution that is going to automate the charity registration process. I’m going to be talking about it, maura going to blogging it. Mohr partners and i are in development on the site right now. Technical partners included, we plan to go live in early twenty fourteen and it is going to make the charity registration process easier, much cheaper and quicker and explain the details to you all all online. So it’s going toe really streamlined the process. There is no completely web based solution to this, and we’re building it. If you want to know more about that, you can sign up for some insider alerts. I’ll send occasional emails to insiders who want to know more. You can reach me through the contact page on my blogged let me know that you’d like to be part of that list and my blog’s is tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, the eighth of november forty fourth show of the year let’s talk more about parlor gatherings lawrence, you do is a very, very askew, said user friendly chapter you have a lot of very robust advice, and i’ve always liked the idea of a small, intimate gathering, so we’re goingto focus on my prejudice for these types of events, not to the exclusion well here on the show, and we don’t have a chance to talk about everything all the strategies that you have in the book, but the book is full of lots of fund-raising strategies i happen to like the i never heard them called parlor gatherings, but i like, i like that idea. Um, who should host these thes parlor gatherings? Generally? There’s one one host who has a good network of friends, were colleagues, family members and in turn out twenty five to thirty people. I’ve been it parties where the purpose parlor gatherings that have as much money as seventy five that’s a big parlour. Yeah, but they have, you know, they’re people with big names and they have big networks and s o mostly, the host is responsible for inviting the guests mostly the host now in some organizations where our host doesn’t feel that they could deliver twenty five to thirty, people, maybe they have a co host or i’ve done three hosts and each of them commit delivering, you know, ten people and and that’s worked very well, especially because they’ve had the support in partnership of two other people that they like, and they’re going to do it together, and they see it as a ah fun thing to do. I love the fact that most of the the expense budgets on parlor gatherings are a couple hundred dollars. We don’t put out a lot of fancy food. We use cheap wine or no wine at all, depending on the organization that always has to be thought through. Um, and we don’t spend money on trinkets or literature. Um, if the if the host once, um, paper invitations as opposed to just using ah elektronik invitation service like ping ah, the host then has to pay for the cost of that, not the organization. And um and as i said, they are usually planned in sixty to ninety days, okay? And you want you want nobody to talk for more than five minutes, that’s right, who you should talk. Well, it has to be somebody. Ah, that that people can emotionally connect with generally a client or consumer who is prepared to deliver and it’s comfortable talking to a group of those could be very tender, intimate moments when it’s, when it’s someone who’s benefiting from the services of the organization. That’s right, it’s seen i’ve seen tears in in colleges, scholarship recipients. But the cause is something causes you mentioned run much more deeply even than education. Yeah, i people who have healed from years of recovery, people who have been supported in their process of coming out of jails and prisons, people who i have ah been through adoption processes. I mean, their stories are extremely powerful, and telling a story is what you need to help them work on and prepare for, so that they have some flare on some theatrics to it where the the audience makes eye contact with them, and that that they have good hand gestures and that they’re articulate. And everybody, of course, has their own style. I’ve been where some client i’ve been to some parties with a purpose where the clients are very stove. Oj and they have a quiet manner, but nonetheless your grandmother would appreciate it slipping little italian, italian and there you are, italian listeners. Ah, they’re they’re quieter in their presentation, but nonetheless still powerful because they prepared still very moving, very moving video is often good at larger events, but in smaller events ah, the intimacy of the smaller room gives gives good stage two to two personal witness who else should be talking? Ah, well, the the some official from the organization of boardmember or volunteer or staff member ceo doesn’t have to be to say, you know, no, the ceo is more than happy more than welcome to think of him or herself, but again in a high functioning fund-raising culture, everybody should be empowered to talk about the money, and teo, talk about the money in a way that that other people get it and doesn’t have to be the ceo there. There’s a one of the stories i tell in the book is a first party with a purpose for a small agency in brooklyn substance abuse recovery agency. They never did any private fund-raising they’d always relied on government grants and their first time. Out, they raised twenty six, twenty seven thousand dollars. They had two clients tell their story and ah, boardmember, who never saw herself as a fundraiser, stood up and was crying after listening to the that the two consumers tell their story and she burst out with a five thousand dollar pledge and somebody else in the room matched it, and none of that was prepared. But it was prepared conceptually, because we do have a bias in who we invite, that we try to invite people that we know something about, that they have some means now we’re not. We’re not strict about that, but we do ask the question. Ahn do seek people who have that some level of affluence now, a lot of smaller non-profits say right off the bat. I don’t know anybody, you know, with the that level of affluence, and i say, okay, well, let’s work with what we have and but amazingly, they always find somebody who writes that eighty percent of the rooms check on dh rehearsing you like tio, you’d like to rehearse. These rehearsing is very important, you know, the penultimate example of steve jobs that before he passed away at at apple, his his launches of new products were legendary, right? That he practiced those for weeks six, seven weeks every single day of running the whole team through rehearsals and himself. And anything worth go doing is worth practising foreign preparing well for so don’t think you could just, like, call the client up the night before and say, would you speak tomorrow at our you know, party with a purpose? That’s not the way to do it? And what about the important follow-up to your parlor gatherings? Well, part of the second speaker or the third speakers role is to ask for funds and and, ah, pledge form has handed out, and some people fill it out right there and it’s collected as people leave and for those that don’t hand the pledge, forman follow-up is necessary first of all, follow-up is necessary for everybody to say thank you, wei have a rule of sending out our thank you notes and forty eight hours business hours which a lot of non-profits find, you know really? Ah, hi rule to meet but we think it’s important that people get both paper and email thank you’s and they get a cumulative understanding of what happened at the party because a lot of donors are going to leave and they’re not going to know the cumulative results that they participated in the twenty six or twenty seven thousand or five thousand or twenty five hundred was raised when i share that impact, you want to share that impact, and you want to let people feel the good vibes of that they participated in, that they made it happen. And so the thank you notes need to go out the the results need to be go out by both female and paper. And then, of course, the e-giving history needs to be recorded in your database and there’s no excuse for a non-profit whether they’re volunteer with no budget, not having a database, as i say in the book, you can go to e base dot or get a free database that was developed by the rockefeller family foundation at my website for the book the non-profit fund-raising solution dot com there’s links to free databases, or you could just use a good excel spreadsheet and stay organized or an access that a base that’s comes with your you know, your computer there’s no, excuse thes days for you don’t have toe spend, you know, ten thousand a month with razors, edge or something. Thank you for sharing those resources to. Leadership councils we alluded to these earlier what’s the role of a leadership council. Well, a non-profit has a board that that worries about its governance. Generally we say that the executive staff is supposed to be worried about one, two, three years of management, and the board should be thinking about five to ten years. The pentagon, of course, has a seventy five year strategic plan, so they know where they’re going to be. I would like our sector to know a lot more about where it’s going to be, but no pat, no matter how powerful your board is, you still need mork community endorsement for your organization and the leadership council gives you that it’s a non governance structure. Some people call it honorary councils or advisory councils. I like the term leadership council because it’s, what we’re looking for, we’re looking for them to be leaders and sometimes those leaders khun step up and say things that your board can’t say, or your executive staff can’t say about your cause. And as we saw this pit last year or two years ago with planned parenthood, there were many people on its leadership council who spoke up. In their defense, where they’re bored, needed to keep, ah, quieter, acquired or voice. So leadership councils are very important. And sometimes you put people on leadership councils who don’t want to do the heavy lifting of governance. And sometimes you put them on because you have good feelings about how they love your organization, and you want to maintain that relationship, but they’re not appropriate for the board. So it’s a it’s, a mix of characters. We’ll take a break for a couple minutes. Keep talking about leadership councils. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. What is our leadership council going to do? Lead endorse for legitimacy, credibility? They’re there to say we like these guys what they’re doing, we endorse and it there’s power by that association with their name, and they don’t even have to do anything just to have that happen. We do want people to do things on the leadership council. They’re generally a couple things. We want them to come to an annual gathering of the leadership council so that they could get their own personal update about the organization. Secondly, we want them to to meet with us individually, us being the development ofthis war, the executive office. We want to meet with them individually to talk about their own gift to the organization, plus their network of possibly doing guess what? Ah, party with a purpose for their network. So there’s a lot of in few inches integration of the tactics in part two of the book, while part one is all about the way you think about fund-raising part two is all about the the intermarriage of various tactics. For example, in a leadership council, i think i mentioned this in the plan giving chapter you could have a leadership council just for the people who are part of it playing give me that. There is a chapter devoted to plan giving. There is the only reason lawrence’s here. We’re not talking about that chapter it’s. The only thing that drew me to the book. I read it from backward. I read, i read that chapter first. The plan giving is, ah, well, many times non-profits overlook having a plan giving society for their donors that that give through their bequests or their wills or insurance policies or whatever the mechanism and having a leadership council of your plan giving group is very important. Um ah, there was a small client i worked with here in east haven, connecticut, the shoreline trolley museum. They’re in the in the midst of closing on a two million dollar campaign so that they could have proper buildings for their antique trolleys. They have one hundred antique trolleys, which tell the story of the trolleys from the eighteen hundreds. Amazing place. My kids love it and the ah, they never had paid attention to their legacy there. They’re playing e-giving ah, donors and we started to talk to them or and organized that group. And they have a leadership council now off their plan giving donor and twenty, twenty one people joined the first year. And i think four five have joined the second year, and they were unsung people who had thought about e-giving for the future where i think you would know better than i, but something like a low seven percent of people think about a plan gift. Whereas in there course of their life, like eighty five or ninety percent of people think about giving but upon their death, they generally just leave their money to their to their family. Yeah, there’s. Some small percentage of people that have, ah, charitable bequest in there will yes, when the leadership council is advocating and endorsing, who were they advocating in endorsing, too? Ah, to the press to other thought leaders conferences during the height of the aids epidemic, the leadership council that i put together at harlem united many of those leaders would would mention in their addresses about aids and howto compassionately. Respond. They would mention that they were on the honorary council of harlem united. It meant it meant legitimacy for them and for us that they would mention that it worked both ways you had ah, leadership council you site in the book that had fifty five members. Oh, yes, what that sounds huge. Yes. And i had the same response to the ceo, and he turned around and said, but look at my mission. I’m i have to represent, you know, thiss whole county and there were, i don’t know twenty four five smaller towns in this as county. And he represented three sectors, not just the nonprofit sector, but government and business and real estate was a big factor of that. So he needed a large counsel, and he saw the wisdom of that. And he i actually had a staff member hired to manage that leadership council, and it brought him it was a wise move. Um, it brought him a lot of impact because he he didn’t neglect his leadership council. A lot of times leadership, council’s air started. I see i go in and, um, auditing and organization. And i look at their letterhead and i see. I say, oh, you have an advisory council says here? Well, yeah, but not really learns i said, what do you mean? Well, we really don’t you know, that was a couple years ago, and it was so and so’s idea and and it’s just fallen by the wayside. You see there’s an example where the culture of the organization didn’t embrace the tactic tactics don’t raise money. Yeah, excellent on their own, they need a culture to nest in and if they’re if they’re if the tactic is in an organization where the where it’s loved and cared for it, then produces results, so then they get the crazy idea that oh, well, the leadership council never really did raise much money for us, totally disassociating themselves from ah lack of developing it and creating a plan for it. At harlem united, our leadership council was reviewed every year, and the plan was updated and revised and evaluated, and that was brought to the boardmember that the board? I’m sorry at a board meeting we we always had cochairs for the leadership council, male and female, pretty consistent about that for capital campaigns, male and female leaders of the campaign cabinet and those two leaders i would invite to come in and give a state of of the union of the our leadership council to the board, and it was and the board members would go to the annual gathering of the leadership council. The board members were asked to do that, and so there was nice synergy and harmony there no competition, we have just about a minute and a half before to wrap up, and so i want to spend that time asking what it is that you love about the work that you do well fund-raising is a noble profession and it’s a bridge builder between the idea that you have that will make the world a better place and the money you need to actualize the program. And so the methods of fund-raising are build that bridge, and and you love building bridges, and absolutely one of my old teachers used to say, if you build bridges, don’t don’t be surprised when people walk on them or walk over you, but nonetheless fund-raising is that bridge between the non-profits idea and the reality of making it happen? There are lots of very good. Ideas in the book it is the non-profit fund-raising solution. Powerful revenue strategy is to take you to the next level. Lawrence paige nani lawrence’s l a u r e n c e panjwani perfect. Thank you so much for being guests. Been a pleasure. I’ve been delighted to be here. And i wanna shout out just quickly to all by blogged readers. About forty, five hundred of them raise your block non-profit fund-raising solution dot com and you can sign up there to be on the block. Outstanding. Thank you again. Thank you. Next week, author denny elliot discusses her book the ethics of asking lots of fund-raising situations raise ethical questions and we are going to talk about them. Rally bound is a sponsor. They make simple, reliable peer-to-peer fund-raising software friends asking friends to give to your cause. There is support for you and for all the people who are asking their friends to give to your campaign. You can claim a discount as a non-profit radio listener go to rally bound dot com or just call them up and ask for joe mcgee. This is this is the type of organization there are they want to. Talk to you personally, ask for joe. I’ve talked to joe, i’ve met the ceo, shmuley, very good guys, call them up, talk to joe mcgee. He will help you get your campaign started. They are at triple eight seven six, seven, ninety seventy six. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam lever, which is our line producer, shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point. Oh, the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, and our music is by scott stein. I do hope you’re going to be with me next friday, one o’clock eastern. I’m talking alternative road casting at talking alternative dot com. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting the good ending, depending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get in. Are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sixty body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday, said noon eastern time to learn tips and juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Soul. Every thursday ad, men in new york times on talking alternative dot coms. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. 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