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Nonprofit Radio for June 5, 2020: Don’t Get Played By The Product Demo & Facebook Fundraising Data

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My Guests:

Rubin Singh: Don’t Get Played By The Product Demo
We’ve all watched in awe as the cursor flies across the screens of a demonstration. Nine months later we’re scratching our heads. “They made it look so easy back then.” Get insider tips from Rubin Singh, who’s led hundreds of sales demos. He’s CEO of OneTenth Consulting. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)

 

 

Nick Burne, Julia Campbell & Maureen Wallbeoff: Facebook Fundraising Data
This 20NTC panel feels your frustration over Facebook not sharing donor data. But they also admonish that you can’t ignore the value of Facebook fundraising. They bust myths, help you overcome the challenges, reveal how to thank and engage your fundraisers and steer you clear of pitfalls. They’re Nick Burne from GivePanel and consultants Julia Campbell and Maureen Wallbeoff.

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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Nonprofit Radio for May 15, 2020: Leadership & Donor Advised Funds

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Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward: Leadership
In two recent shows, guests agreed that Amy Sample Ward represents a shining example of vulnerable leadership. So who better to speak to about leadership—whether in a crisis or not? She’s CEO of NTEN and our technology and social media contributor.

 

Maria Semple

Maria Semple: Donor Advised Funds
Let’s relieve the misery of DAFs. There may be a lot you cannot find, but you’re not helpless. Maria Semple has advice and resources for finding and reaching the funds. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder.

 

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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[00:00:11.14] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit

[00:00:16.08] spk_2:
ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly

[00:02:03.74] spk_1:
named host. I’m continuing with a dizzy production, audacity and zoom. No studio. I don’t know if you can hear that ocean. I hear the ocean. It’s not digital. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of ridiculous senioritis if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show leadership. In two recent shows, my guests agreed that Amy Sample Ward represents a shining example of vulnerable leadership. So who better to speak to about leadership, whether in a crisis or not? Then Amy Sample Ward. She’s CEO of N 10 and our technology and social media contributor and donor advised funds. Let’s relieve the misery of donor advised funds. There may be a lot you cannot find, but you’re not helpless. Maria Simple has advice, and resource is for finding and reaching the funds. She’s our prospect research contributor and the Prospect Finder. Last week I did say we’d have a 20 TC panel with Maria. Leadership just felt more timely on tony steak, too. Take 1/3 breath were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant mountain for a free 60 day trial. And by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo Here is leadership with Amy Sample

[00:02:13.94] spk_2:
Ward. It’s always a pleasure to welcome you, Amy Sample Ward. And there you are. This is not like you have to wait until I say, you know, there you are. You’re already here. You’re here,

[00:02:15.53] spk_4:
you know? And I get to see you, you know, normally shows or like, over the phone or whatever, So yeah, I can see you. Um, thank you for such a kind intro.

[00:02:33.34] spk_2:
Love it, actually, yes. That, uh, uh let me also remind people that, uh, you your you’re you blogged at, uh you still blogging any sample ward dot or

[00:02:44.50] spk_4:
ge? I mean, I do have the website, but normally, if I’m writing something that’s either for in 10 or yeah,

[00:02:48.53] spk_2:
I’ll scratch that no more. Aimee Semple ward dot org’s is still at a me R s board. Always very good. Okay,

[00:02:52.40] spk_4:
Yes. Happy to tony.

[00:03:04.54] spk_2:
So? So Yes. Two different panels, at least one of which is a special episode. So people have already heard it. Maybe both of them. But, um, you, Ah, I brought you up, actually, as an example of vulnerable leadership. And the panels agreed immediately. So it wasn’t just wasn’t only me saying it.

[00:03:13.90] spk_1:
And then

[00:03:14.30] spk_4:
we’ll have to go find those people. Send them in. Thank you. Guessed

[00:03:32.64] spk_2:
it was about one is about leadership. And the other one was about team care. I think I’m pretty sure those were the two. So that was the leadership. One was leadership number one for our special episodes. But here we are, the ship to so vulnerable leadership. What does that does that mean to you?

[00:04:00.34] spk_4:
Um, you know, it’s not necessarily a phrase that I would use because I guess maybe the phrase I would use and what that term means to me is just authentic leadership. You know, I think you can’t be authentic if you aren’t being all sides of your emotions. You know, if there’s only like, 11 version of how you are, then I don’t think it creates a lot of space for the folks that work with you, whether inside the organization or outside to feel like they’re allowed to have multiple emotions or thoughts. You know, if you’re kind of setting the precedent, that that’s the way you expect others to be When when you hold yourself to that,

[00:04:22.44] spk_2:
Okay. Authentic, I think.

[00:04:24.15] spk_4:
Yeah. I mean, we can see we can use vulnerable. That’s just, you know, maybe not the language that I think of myself.

[00:04:32.94] spk_2:
Okay, Um, authentic ce Fine. Yeah, but it z it suggests Ah, on honesty on open. Right. Ah, collaboration.

[00:04:52.04] spk_4:
Totally. And I don’t think, you know, I love that you use the word collaboration because that’s what I think about. A lot is like, if you really collaborating with other folks, you’re all kind of joining unequal space, right? To share ideas or talker. Come up with whatever the work is your your collaborating on and the same would be true in leadership and tough times, right? Like you have to really meet and create a space where everyone can have all those emotions and work through it together. Otherwise, you aren’t really in partnership with each other. Right? You are. You’re somehow separate from everyone.

[00:05:36.94] spk_2:
Yeah, right now there are There are leaders who are not of this ilk. They would say that, you know, emotions, emotions in the workplace. Um, they don’t that they really don’t belong. You obviously

[00:06:57.64] spk_4:
don’t agree with that. You you know, I think if you don’t have, if you don’t have the kind of emotional intelligence Teoh experience those emotions identify those emotions, understand where they’re coming from and where they’re trying Teoh lead you or what they’re telling you about how you’re taking an information, then you’re not really using all the tools that nature has given you, right? I mean, a big part of being a leader is developing a really strong gut, right? Being able to like, go do your research but also have, like, you know, in the moment where things should go right, like that’s I always think a great sign of someone that, um has strong leadership, regardless of the job title, is that they’ve developed a really strong gut. And the way you do that is 100% pure emotion. By understanding like how your body is reacting in the moment, Teoh an idea or two. A conflict and understanding. Not just best. Oh, I’m having this emotion. But I know why I’m having this emotion. I know where it’s leading me. I know what my gut is telling me to do right now, you know? So if you feel like emotions aren’t welcome or not professional or shouldn’t be in your workplace, I really worry that that has hampered the ability for both you and your staff toe like truly use all their skills

[00:07:03.74] spk_2:
and then but in the same but same talking, you have to be empathic right t to recognize the emotions in others through, um, official expressions, body language, tone. Right there. I start watering, were smiling. Let’s not keep it all negative. You right there smiling there. Um, so you have to see the emotion. I

[00:07:26.04] spk_4:
think that’s the piece that takes,

[00:07:27.76] spk_2:
you know, a

[00:08:35.74] spk_4:
lot of takes a lot out of people you know is is being able to not just read and understand how others are feeling, but kind of react to that. I don’t see manager because it’s not your job to, like, manage their feelings, but be able to react to it and and both of you have a strong interaction. You know, um, I also think there’s something I see a lot in the nonprofit sector that leads to burnout us folks truly being so empathetic that they’re taking on that emotional burden of either their staff for their community that they serve. You know, it’s something to be able to read and understand and operate within emotions. And it’s another to feel like you are carrying those emotions for your staff, you know, And it’s a lot to carry our own emotions alone, like 20 more people’s emotions, you know, And you ultimately can’t do that at least not very long without burning out. You know, so understanding how you can except and address and engage those emotions that your staff maybe having whether again, whether they’re positive or negative, and and then move forward so that you aren’t just feeling then responsible for every feeling that that person has, you know.

[00:08:51.78] spk_2:
So when you’re feeling emotional about something, getting feeling an emotional reaction or you’re sensing it in the person you’re talking to, you make it explicit. Do you? Yeah, comfortable enough space that you start talking about. You know, you raised the fact let’s put aside what we’re talking about. I’m getting a reaction from you or I’m feeling this reaction to what? Your Let’s talk about how we’re feeling.

[00:10:27.84] spk_4:
I mean, I think it’s hard to put anything aside. So in the moment, you know, just saying I’m really feeling this or how are you feeling about this conversation? You know, I think, and that as adults we have, especially in this sector, we have very complicated feelings. Sometimes often the feelings are like personally feeling challenged by something and at the same time knowing how much we might have to do it, you know? And it creates like an emotional conflict within ourselves. Teoh, hold two things that are maybe opposite at the same time. You know, um and just letting folks have the space to say how they’re feeling. Not just Do you know what your next steps are? Please go do them, you know, like, how do you feel about them? Because I feel like if folks don’t have space to maim and share and address how they’re feeling about things when they go to to move forward with those next steps, they’re either not going to go as maybe effectively or efficiently as they could because they’re still like, caught up in processing how they feel about them, you know? So just spending that probably shorter amount of time undressing how folks are feeling together essentially like speeds up them being able to go do the work. You know,

[00:11:10.80] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As We received our P PP funding. Now what? That’s their latest recorded webinar. What about loan forgiveness? How do you get the max forgiven? It sounds like this is sounding abs, religion, absolution. I absolve you. You are absolved. Um, but it is just forgiveness, not absolution. Wegner-C.P.As dot com Click Resource is and recorded events to find out more about these p p p loans and forgiveness. Now back to leadership with Amy Sample Ward.

[00:12:17.54] spk_2:
I identified you as AH vulnerable leader because of the video that you posted on the Internet website that was announcing the decision to cancel the to cancel the 2020 NTC, the non profit at the conference. And there were I think there were two times in that video that we saw you wiped tears from your eyes. And not only that, but you opened up to the fact that the conference represents 62% of and tens revenue for the year. So you’re not only gonna be without that revenue, then you also had penalties that have to be paid on. So new and additional expenses penalties paid for contracts that had medical. Um, so the I guess the parts where you were teary, tearful, you didn’t. Or did you think about taking those out of the video or or doing a take to where you will be showing less emotion to the public?

[00:12:25.74] spk_4:
Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, at that point in the day, I didn’t know that there were tears left. I’d already cried in in every in every phone call I had for that day, you know? So I kind of thought I was dehydrated enough. Do not have that you bore

[00:12:42.07] spk_2:
about just just last month. I mean, yes, maybe our recording on April 28th it was Yeah. It was just last month that this will happen.

[00:12:53.50] spk_4:
I have goose bumps with you, just describing the day and having to make the video

[00:12:56.85] spk_2:
by our watering a little bit thinking about you.

[00:16:58.34] spk_4:
Yeah. I mean, I think the I mean, you know me, like I’m usually a one take person like, Well, however, that went is how it went, you know, But I guess that’s back to the authentic piece. But, you know, I also I mean, I got to the end of the video. I felt pretty good for, like, being able to continue talking. I never had to stop and cry. That felt that was kind of my bar, you know, like, I continue to talk the whole time, so that wasn’t success. And then, you know, I do it Thomas, our communications director, and said like, I cannot watch myself say those things again. So you watch the video. If you think I’m not holding it together enough, you know, I can try and do it again. And he was like, no thistles sign. You don’t have to try and do this again, you know, um but I think I have had a lot of seen back. I mean, I’m someone who cries. There are lots of people that cry, you know? Oh, and crying is great and healthy. And to me, feels like a clear sign that I I opened up the channels so that my my heart and my body can tell me when I’m feeling certain things, you know? And, um, I always cried the NTC, you know, because there’s such incredible, passionate folks. They’re sharing their stories. There are really wonderful people. Well, that we’re highlighting our awards. You know, I just get sad. That’s the last day, and everyone’s gonna leave. So, um e I have gotten feedback in the past, especially from women or non binary folks in the community that getting to see said someone willing to cry has made them feel like bay themselves. As someone who has those emotions is not unprofessional, you know, and is not doing something wrong, and she wouldn’t be who they are. So I appreciate those folks giving that kind of generous feedback. Like I you know, we don’t necessarily have a relationship. You have to tell me that, you know, So that’s a huge gift. But I also thought about that in the video after, you know, after Thomas said he was gonna use that and he said, like, it looks like you’re crying. Are you OK with us putting that out there and it was just like, this is really effin hard. Yeah, like I held it together. So I’m buying with with that. And like, maybe people won’t notice that don’t know me are paying this close attention to the video, you know? So I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, but it is really hard to say those things especially, you know, of course, we all the world is different now, and all these weeks later, we know a different truth. But at that time, these things were not known, you know? So, um, there’s there’s no reason that saying something hard has to be, like, straight faced and going No emotionless. Yeah. Um I mean, it was just just like a few, like the following sunday. Maybe after we canceled staff a staff person posted in our slack account that the Baltimore Convention Center, where we were meant to hold the conference was gonna be in Baltimore, was being transition to be a field hospital for Kobe patients. And it was like it was just a ah, huge emotional release for so many of us. Not necessarily sad, but just all those emotions, you know, that like we had put so much work into planning what we would do in that at space. And now, instead of us being there, there’s patients, you know. And what is that? How does that reflect on everything that we must have just gone through? So I don’t think there’s any way to have made that video or to have talked about that decision or those times without with without a lot of emotions, you know?

[00:17:33.84] spk_2:
Well, I admire the the willingness to share emotion and also to accept it in others. I I can’t only see how that would create a more collaborative, cohesive team, closer relationships with each individual team member on then and then as a result of a more cohesive team Overall, Uh, I can’t see. You know, I don’t I don’t understand people who, um, think that vulnerability is a sign of weakness, right? No, that makes you somehow makes you weak, and you have to be stoic. All

[00:19:41.06] spk_4:
right, very. It’s a very like white, dominant capitalist, patriarchal, even mode of thinking, right, because emotion and those paradigms is feminine and feminine is bad. Where we all have all of those traders, you know, and that emotion is uncontrolled, and that’s not good right, Those air, those air bodies of thought that want control. Um And I guess I also just would love a world where those air, not the bodies of thought, were operating with them. Right? That like we’re not We’re not here. T get the last dollar out of everything that I believe as a community, we have all the resources we need for the rural we want. It’s about working and really station ship with each other so that we can use those resources in the right ways, you know? And I think that piece about being in relationship with each other is the piece I think about. You know, when you’re talking about vulnerable leadership like if you’re in a relationship, you expect to be vulnerable with that person and have that person be vulnerable with you, right? That’s but so much of of kind of the U. S. Culture is like relationships are Onley romantic relationships like there are partner or spouse. Relationships are every person that we interact with, right? And if you’re really entering those conversations, those friendships in relationship with each other, you should be vulnerable with each other. You should be comfortable being vulnerable with each other. You know, like you and I have had off camera off camera, off audio, very vulnerable conversations, right about, like, personal growth and things that we want to work on. And that means that other craft conversations we have that maybe oranges emotional or art is vulnerable are better because we’ve also been able to have those other types of conversations, you know? So I think seeing leadership as maybe the person who stewards those relationships within the organization changes again the role in the dynamic of emotion there that you’re almost the one that has to be even more vulnerable because you’re the one saying we are in relationship here, you know? And we really should have have these connections with each other.

[00:20:39.84] spk_2:
See, this is why you’re the person who writes the books because you see, you take this from the microcosm that that we were talking about. And then you extrapolated to the broader community that has sufficient resources to achieve the missions and the goals that we want. If we could just channel those and work together. Yeah, you have ah, way of seeing the big picture. Thank you. I admire which I’d mind. Yeah, that’s a Europe. Yeah. You’re the book writing people. You know, things. If you have the books in you and those of us who have the more I don’t know, maybe more.

[00:20:42.74] spk_4:
The area is

[00:20:51.54] spk_2:
where the grounded worth the grounded level. But you take it to the next level. Um, well, so

[00:20:52.32] spk_4:
what? So can I, like, reverse the interview and s

[00:20:57.27] spk_2:
so I don’t like when, uh, you know,

[00:20:59.06] spk_4:
you don’t. That’s why I e

[00:21:02.05] spk_1:
ever turned you down. Maybe I did in the beginning.

[00:21:19.64] spk_4:
So? So just as like, a thought experiment. Not that you have toe, you know, share something that you don’t want to share on the air. But you know it. There are there examples when, like, what’s your anti? See a video? What’s what? You had to share something. It is not to being broadcast with the world like our video, but you know it. Is there something that wasn’t wasn’t bound within a romantic relationship, but was an example where you were having to share information or news or ask a question that required your vulnerability in relationship with someone professional?

[00:22:13.04] spk_2:
Yeah. The ones that come to mind are a couple of a couple of shows. A ah show on diversity equity and inclusion with Jean Takagi. Where we, you know, we talked explicitly about white male power. Yeah. Ah, and history. Um, and then another one that you and I did I don’t remember Was that it was at a d I conversation? No, it was when you and I talked about poverty. Porn?

[00:22:19.29] spk_4:
Oh, yeah,

[00:22:25.44] spk_2:
that was, uh, that was a moving one for, um, So those are those are a couple of those mind. Yeah.

[00:22:31.06] spk_4:
Thanks for sharing. What is Iris? Yeah, I know. You want to turn it back around?

[00:23:51.94] spk_2:
No, no, because I there there are There are people who have, you know, have this format, But going back decades, um, who I admire like Dick Cavett. Cavite is ah, seems to be a very vulnerable and authentic host of his show. And there’s hundreds of clips on YouTube of him. Yeah, and he opens up, and I you know, um, there are other folks as well. Ah, maybe lesser known, you know, but that I take cues from yeah, producing the show. But in being a host, like the host guest interaction, Dick Cavett is is my number one because he because he is so authentic. Yeah, so it doesn’t, you know, Yeah, I think those were sort of breakthrough moments. I would count those. I don’t know if you count your in 10. You know, the NTC cancellation video is a as a highlight of your career, but when those conversations happen, it’s completely organic. You know? I know D eyes a sensitive topic, but I didn’t know that I was going to get emotional with g discussing it. Right. But

[00:24:41.44] spk_4:
I think part of that reflection that you’re having is also the acknowledgement that whether the topic is sensitive or not, it’s that you feel personally responsible for your actions within that topic, right? Like I think about, um, I have some friends who have had a history with cancer, and, you know, when they share stories of Dr that was like and here’s like the news, blah, blah, blah, it’s so hard. And somehow it is easier when the doctor is also sad, you know, and feeling like this is really hard. We’re gonna talk about this. We’re also gonna talk about treatment and and whatever, but you don’t have to not share the news, But you also don’t have to share it in a cold way. You can be. You can you can share in that kind of personal space of that topic with someone, and I kind of hear that in your reflection. You know that? Yeah. Is it? It’s a hard topic, but you were willing to be kind of responsible for yourself in that topic, you know?

[00:26:02.35] spk_2:
Um, all right, So how does it let’s bring it back this back to the leadership, then? Yes, Um, where we’re talking about being open emotionally, being authentic, Um, empathic, I think subsumed in all this is listening, active listening as well as feeling emotion, hearing words as well as as well as taking in the full person. Not just not only what they’re saying, but listening to their words. Um, curious minded, sometimes in leadership, uh, one of the at least one of these, uh, previous special episodes. The idea being curious minded, you know? Yeah. Asking questions, not just taking what said. And I guess, you know, ignoring your own questions about it, being willing to admit that you don’t understand something that someone has just explained you know, maybe you’re hearing it for the first time. It doesn’t have to be a technical subject. You know, it could be a to be a very emotional subject, but you just don’t You don’t quite you don’t grasp. But you’re curious enough and authentic enough to ask, you know, could you flesh it out more?

[00:26:21.08] spk_4:
Yeah. Being curiosity is

[00:26:25.60] spk_2:
I just don’t understand what you’re all

[00:28:31.24] spk_4:
right. I think curiosity is something that folks could use so much more. I feel like I don’t hear folks talk about curiosity very much. And I feel like it could be a pass for all of the times When you’re like, I don’t get what you’re saying instead of having to say or fight and some nice way to say, like, can you please repeat that? Because I don’t understand. You could say I’m really curious, you know, like, can you keep talking about it because I’m just very curious. And using curiosity as Urine road both for understanding and kind of letting folks further explain themselves is such a kind of positive neutral entry point instead of you’re not making sense, right? Or you did not explain that to May right. It’s like I’m curious. Please just keep keep explaining. You know, um and I think the other part of what you’re saying there is acknowledging that as a leader. And again, I don’t think a leader is only someone who has, like, CEOs, their job title. Anyone in any moment is maybe the leader right of their project on their team or whatever, but acknowledging that you don’t already know everything in my experience, that looks like not knowing how to do any certain thing that pops up as an organization. It’s so much more freeing for me as an individual t just openly say, Well, it’s certainly never canceled the NTC before. So, like, I don’t have answers to your questions about what we’re about to do. But I know that we’re gonna stay in relationship. We’re going to stay in this room. We’re gonna stay in this together, and collectively we will figure out the answers to those questions. We will figure out what it is we need to do, and then we will do it, you know. But, um releases myself of having to, like, anticipate every single question to know the answer. When, of course, I don’t know those answers. I’ve never done this before. A lot of people, you know? I mean, we’re on our, uh, you event planners association list. And everyone in March was like, I’ve literally never canceled an event What we stole student yet saying, because that’s not the world that we’ve ever lived in. So getting to let go of that expectation for yourself, Let’s your staff again. Let’s hold it for themselves. You know? And I think more deeply creates unauthentic relationship where staff could say, wow, Amy openly admitted that she had no idea what she was doing. Now, I don’t feel as much pressure to say I don’t know what I’m doing. Can you help? You know, and

[00:28:52.24] spk_2:
coming from that creates, I think, builds confidence in the team that can. None of us knows now, but collective 20

[00:28:59.63] spk_4:
four hours later, collectively, we figured out

[00:29:02.08] spk_2:
we’re gonna figure it out. Yeah,

[00:29:03.39] spk_4:
Yeah, totally. I think it builds a lot of the like resilience muscles, you know, because people have experienced Whoa, I’m up against the wall. I don’t know what to dio. We set out loud that we don’t know what to do. We came up with a plan together, we implemented the plan. Look, now we’re moving forward, Okay? Next time I’m up against that wall of I don’t know, I can say, Oh, I’ve been here before Like I have the muscle memory to say, Hey, like, even faster this time I’m gonna raise the flag that I don’t know what to do. And I need help, you know? And it cuts down on all that shirt, You know, Um and it makes it less emotionally trying, I think because you’ve already done it Waas, you know, And now you could say, Oh, it wasn’t like this. It wasn’t Is that as I thought? So it’s not gonna sting when I say, hey, I don’t really know what

[00:29:47.89] spk_3:
to do. Yeah, through

[00:29:49.37] spk_2:
that NTC cancellation in 21. Wait,

[00:30:00.54] spk_4:
do anything now? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:30:01.74] spk_6:
Um let’s talk a

[00:30:28.89] spk_2:
little about self care, as as a leader Teoh to be authentic and vulnerable. Um, I think there are things you have to do for yourself when you’re when you’re not. You’re not the CEO. Um, how do you know if you think about it explicitly is I’m gonna take care of myself. you probably don’t. That sounds that sounds too. I e take care of myself so I can take care of intent and the technology in the non profit space now. But

[00:31:38.30] spk_4:
I think about it. More regeneration. You know, whether I need to have energy again for tomorrow. Or sometimes I’m looking at my calendar for the day, and I think, like, what do I need to have the energy I need for for those other meetings I see coming up, Like, I might see that there’s a meeting that I know is gonna take a lot, you know, And there I’m sure many people listening to this understand, like sometimes you wake up and you look at your calendar you like, how do I have literally eight hours straight of back to back meetings like this is not a human’s schedule. So I will bump some of those meetings and give myself okay. I think I need this pacing. I think I’m gonna need a break before this other, you know, discussion or whatever. Um, and move those meetings, but so there’s like the tactical calendar management. I really do think it’s self care if you are setting yourself up to have days that aren’t sustainable. You’re not gonna make it through, you know? And yes, we all have demands on our time, But we’re also in charge of our time and we can say actually, have two minute insisted I’m gonna be present with you. So why should we even bother talking? You know, let’s move to me.

[00:31:42.81] spk_2:
You are in control of your own calendar.

[00:33:24.54] spk_4:
Yeah, and the other thing that I have found, at least for me, is having a really strong meditation. Practice helps on a daily or multiple times a day place because for me and you know, this is just what works for me and my personality and my mind, this doesn’t like prescriptive. And of course, if you don’t do this, something’s wrong. But for me being able to sit with how I’m feeling with how I’m reflecting on actions or conversations, being able to like, kind of come home and be accountable to myself is the hardest judge. It’s a lot easier, I think, people, I think it’s easier for folks that I work with our relationships with Teoh Teoh, give me a pass out of things that I know. I’m gonna be harder on myself than someone else. What? I think that’s true for many of us, right? We’re always our harshest critic, so accepting that in creating space where I’m really just sitting with myself and having to accept and let go or process or or make a plan for something has helped me tremendously because I can then let go of something instead of, you know, kind of keeping it in the doctor, my mind haunting May as I move forward, I could say, actually, like, clearly that didn’t go the way I wanted it to go. I wasn’t the version of myself I wanted to be. And, you know, there’s been whatever restoration I’ve apologized or I’ve talked to that person. But that piece is done, and the peace with myself is still there. And using meditation as a process for kind of accepting myself on letting those things go has has really created a lot of space, I think, for growth in my in myself and in my job,

[00:33:36.34] spk_2:
its authenticity with yourself. Yeah, comfort with yourself.

[00:34:06.24] spk_4:
Yeah. Yeah, And I think the biggest lesson honestly is, except like I’m someone who loves to learn. I think that if you already know everything about what you’re doing, you’re probably quite bored. You know, I’m glad that I show up to work and like what I do, What I have to do today. Let’s get this out. You know, that feels great. It’s like I get to stretch every day. Um, but it also means that I have to learn things the hard way, you know, because I didn’t already know them. And so having that meditation practice, just sit with myself and say like, it’s OK that I didn’t know that it’s okay that I learned it in a real rough way, you know, and and really think about what? Out of that experience I did learn and back to what we were saying earlier. Like all of those pieces of acceptance and acknowledgement and and reflection kind of get filtered in to building a stronger and stronger gut, you know, so that the next time I’m in that situation, I can hear and listen and say, Oh, I know what’s happening here. Like I’ve got all those little puzzle pieces telling me this is the same as that one time, you know and know how to move forward in the moment,

[00:34:57.24] spk_2:
I feel like leaving it there. Is there anything? Is there anything you wanna you want to leave our listeners with?

[00:35:36.84] spk_4:
I guess I would say, Of course, everything I’ve shared is my own experience in reflection, and we’re all different people. But if there’s part of you that’s wishing that you had done something differently or could be more vulnerable with your staff, or just operate Maurin relationship with the people that you collaborate with, you can just start doing that. There doesn’t have to be like announcement that’s rolled out that today you will start, you know, operating differently or communicating differently. You don’t You don’t need to save it because you’ve operated a certain way. You have to stay in that way like we’re humans, and we’re meant to change and evolve and grow. So if you want to be more open, just start being more open. Even if it feels awkward at first. You’ll get better at it cause your practice, you know, and then you can can have that be your default,

[00:36:08.08] spk_2:
every sample ward. Love it. Thank you CEO and our social media, social media and technology contributor and you’ll find her at a me R s Ward. Thank you very much.

[00:36:11.93] spk_4:
Thank you, tony.

[00:36:17.33] spk_2:
So good to talk to you. Yeah, like here. Keep

[00:36:17.65] spk_1:
taking care. Yeah. Keep taking care of yourself.

[00:36:19.83] spk_4:
Yes. Stay well.

[00:36:22.12] spk_2:
You too.

[00:39:28.11] spk_1:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software. Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that you can count on and that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now it’s time for Tony’s Take two. Take 1/3 breath. I’m tripling down on my relax ation advice. It is not merely okay for you to put yourself first at some time each day. It’s essential you have to do it. Make time for yourself each day. Make it the same time each day. If that helps you remember to do it. Hopefully you don’t have to forget you don’t forget that you come first sometime. But I understand working through your in a you’re gonna flow. I understand that. So maybe making it a definite set time. Each day helps you to put aside that time for yourself. But you’re being asked to do stuff that you hadn’t done before in ways and in a place, your home. But with, you know, circumstances around that you haven’t been asked before. And if you have Children, then you’re being asked to do all this while your kids are home. It takes toll on you, so you need to take time for yourself to rejuvenate its not just relaxing. It’s rejuvenating its recovering time recovery time. So please take that time for yourself. For me, I go outside. Um, like I said earlier, I don’t know if you can hear the ocean in the background, but it’s there. Um, I got this ocean across the street every day. I wake up it ZX still there, so I go outside 2030 minutes. Maybe it’s Ah, lunch, uh, or just sitting. If it’s not nice enough outside, then I sit inside and have lunch inside, looking out of the ocean or just watching sitting on the sofa watching. So whatever it is for you, you may not have a notion. Ah, what can you do for yourself. A walk, a trip to a park? Uh, it may be It may be listening to music. Um, if that’s if that’s good for you, whatever it is that can help you to rejuvenate Recover, do it. Take the time for yourself each day, please. That is tony. Stick to now. It’s time for donor advised funds with Maria. Simple.

[00:39:45.22] spk_6:
My pleasure to welcome back Maria. Simple. You know who she is? She’s the Prospect Finder and our Prospect research contributor. She’s at the prospect finder dot com and at the Prospect Finder. Reassemble. Welcome back.

[00:39:47.12] spk_3:
Thanks, tony. Good to be here.

[00:40:22.91] spk_6:
Yes. Well, I’m sorry you can’t be with me at the beach. I don’t know if the video is gonna turn out okay, but I just decided that any schmoe could record on zoom and put an ocean background, uh, behind them. But, uh, any Schmo can’t just walk to the beach and get unauthentic ocean background. So I’ve got one good using card. I’m tired of being in just any Schmo. No, I’m breaking out now. No, no, no. Most smiles. You know, most smoke for may. You’re doing a okay, right?

[00:40:24.71] spk_3:
We’re doing just fine. Thank you. Yeah. Like you were blessed to live near near the water and can get out for a beautiful walk. Clear your head and get some fresh air.

[00:41:05.01] spk_6:
Yeah, I’m looking East, Uh, in your direction. Right now, you’re several miles up or over, actually, not up, but, uh, looking east. I’m looking in your direction. Nice point. Puffy clouds you got there. So we’re talking about donor advised funds. What? Yeah, you know, they’ve been around for years or nothing new? Uh, no, that it could be a source of headache for non profits. Why do you feel like now is a good time to talk about it? Well, you know, I’ve been hearing a

[00:41:38.77] spk_3:
lot of discussion about them recently, and I think that, um, about sure if that’s because in this period of cove, it a lot of people are using their donor advised funds to make some contributions to organizations to help them out. But I started doing a little bit of digging to see really just how large feet I’m going to say the industry because the come and what I found was this report that’s put out annually by something called the National Philanthropic Trust. And they dio a donor advised fund report every year. And I couldn’t believe when I saw that the, um the rapid growth that they’ve had, that they had an 86% increase in contributions in the last five years to donor advised funds.

[00:42:02.40] spk_6:
Okay, that’s money. That’s money into donor advised funds. How about money coming out of them getting into charities hands

[00:42:50.68] spk_3:
so that that number was 23.42 billion with a B. No, I feel very significant number. And so, anyway, it’s just something that I thought we hadn’t covered really in the show and something that we probably shouldn’t ignore. Um, it’s really vexing for fundraisers for prospect researchers because, um, donors will often set these up as a way to perhaps give Anonymous anonymously in some cases, although, according to Fidelity, about 90% of donors go ahead and say, you know, release my name and contact information to the non profit when I make this gift. So I thought it was something we could at least explore talking about.

[00:43:34.80] spk_6:
Yeah, I think vexing is ah, good way to describe it, because I’ve been hearing this for years, that charities get frustrated when ah, get these gifts and they they have to then follow up with the company of the administrator for the for the of the fund and and plead for donor information, sometimes to get it. Sometimes they don’t wait. You just said about ability. Um, I don’t know that older people I know all the times don’t do that because we’re hearing these frustrations for years. So, uh, all right, so you got some ideas about what we can we can do to overcome these vexations?

[00:45:42.01] spk_3:
Yes. So I thought we talked about some prospecting. Resource is, you know, to do some proactive prospecting. Obviously, if you have the name of the donor advised fund, you would do some additional research on it. But you can also, um, just try and do some proactive prospecting. Your resource is you can use for free. Um, and fee based resource is as well. So let’s start with free, right? You can certainly try and Google, right? You can google the ah donor advised fund and maybe your state and see how maney come up in maybe articles or listing somewhere in a state listing. But I thought guidestar had some some pretty good information for for the nonprofits to start doing some proactive prospecting and list building of donor advised funds that might be in their in their area. Um, so one example that I that I pulled waas um, I just went ahead and searched just on the term donor. Advised I left off the word fund. I just you know, sometimes less is more when you’re doing these these types of searches. Okay, So I typed in the word donor advised in guidestar. Um, and this is under a free account, and I, uh, down nationwide, it came back with 527 search results. Um, I was able to sort by gross receipts. That was interesting to me. Just to kind of see, you know, largest to smallest type. Um, and top top number one, As you might expect, we’ve already mentioned it with fidelity. Um, so number one came up its fidelity number two Jewish Communal Fund number three, Goldman Sachs, Philip Philanthropy Fund number four, Silicon Valley Community Foundation and number five. You guess number your

[00:45:42.97] spk_6:
your community trust.

[00:45:48.99] spk_3:
Actually, no, it’s Ah, vanguard. Okay. I want to be able

[00:45:52.72] spk_6:
to guess that New York community profound spotless that for? Well, I just want to stay. Keep the guests. That newest community trust

[00:45:57.81] spk_3:
actually didn’t even make top 10.

[00:46:19.23] spk_6:
Alright, Alright, alright. So if we have these, all right, we have we have We know that we know all the players now. 520 some, uh, but there still is. The individuals control the money in the funds. What? What do we do now that we know the names of the funds? So one of the things

[00:47:11.38] spk_3:
that you could consider doing is seeing if the fund is somewhere nearby or whatever. Try and, um, you try and develop a relationship with some of the personnel at at the fund itself, right? So these would be employees don’t eyes front and not necessarily the family. Ultimately, if you see the family’s name attached so it might say something like, um, the Maria Simple Fund at Fidelity. Right? That might be the formal name that ends up coming through. So then you would research on that person’s name as much of a hand and using a lot of the research talked about here on the show minimum Coble, especially first time you’ve ever received a gift from EPA. Wow. That’s why.

[00:47:31.06] spk_6:
Wait. All right, So So you’re saying you first you search the fund in searching the funds and guidestar individual names come up. Is that what you’re saying? Well, I’m gonna be o

[00:47:54.88] spk_3:
of the big funds, but the smaller don’t recognised may have the person’s name as well, right? So you want to make sure that you’re just doing some in depth research, So even on the big ones you’re able, Teoh, you’re able to see a list of gifts, and they give how they paid out. Even look at every gift. Fidelity’s the Fidelity investment charitable gift, but is make, um and say you’ll have

[00:48:37.87] spk_6:
Okay. Okay, So you going todo and that. Okay, you look at the 9 90 of that funding. You can see the gifts that came from there. Right. Okay, right away. That’s down for Ah, a couple minutes before that. Was the Beach patrol going by one. Make sure everybody everybody knows this is an authentic background. I don’t want to be any any, uh, questioning of my integrity on background. That was the beach patrol girl by Okay, um, all right, So? Well, yeah, you could. You could start a cross match The larger fund names that you find with your with your own. Crn You could do that too,

[00:49:17.21] spk_3:
right? Right. Absolutely, Absolutely. Okay. Um, and and so, you know, like I said, for freight, somewhat limited as to what you can search for. One of the fee based resource is if I might just mention that people can take a look at and also get a free trial to, um is I wave, so you could definitely try it. Try that one out. Um, I had done a search nationwide to see just on the terminology advised fund and yielded over 16,000 results. Now, some were duplicates, right? So some were mentioned with months. Um, I just

[00:49:28.74] spk_6:
What? What is I wave? What is that? What does that have to do?

[00:49:33.17] spk_3:
So it is, um, It’s similar to, you know, we’ve talked about some of these other fee based resource is before, like, wealth and so forth. So it’s a tool that prospect researchers will use. That is a fee based resource. Um, and so you’re gonna get your yield a lot more surgeries, adults, and you can manipulate the data and export spread meats and so forth.

[00:50:03.61] spk_6:
So you could also use waiting for individual prospect research. Well, yes, absolutely. Get get out what people would get for their see if you have a struck tie with any idea what the seas are. Do you remember?

[00:50:13.60] spk_3:
Um, I don’t know right now, You know, I usually don’t like to try and get into that on your show because it lives forever. Right on your

[00:50:21.56] spk_6:
Well, yeah, I was, I would say it was from 2020 or something. Okay.

[00:50:25.74] spk_3:
Yeah. Yeah. So I would recommend because normally what will happen is you’re gonna Also it’s a screening tool. So you could also do it on entire screening of your database. So usually they’ll bundle it in, Um, you get a screening done, and then access to the to the search tools for, like, a year or something like that. So very often the fees are gonna be based on your dad.

[00:51:13.70] spk_1:
Time for our last break. Turn to communications. They’re former journalists so that you get help getting your message through. It is possible to be heard through this Corona virus cacophony. And you want to be heard other times beyond this. Of course, they know exactly what to do to make that happen. They’re at turn hyphen two dot CEO, you’ve got but loads more time for donor advised funds.

[00:51:23.90] spk_6:
Okay, so you’re you’re against your cross referencing your search results with your own C r m.

[00:52:04.04] spk_3:
Right? Right. So, you know, I like the fact that you can exported into the spreadsheet again. You cross check it with your own C R M. Maybe circulated with Lauren Development Committee are other staff members And have a discussion. I started getting curious, you know, out of all those house. Well, how many of those funds donor advised funds are in North Carolina, right where we’re both residing and actually tries to order 177. Results from Dr Guys funds. It came up just in the last five years or so. Um, so

[00:52:08.25] spk_6:
that is it. Right? That doesn’t sound like very many. 177 donor advised fund gif ts the whole state of North Carolina for five years.

[00:52:16.56] spk_3:
No, those were a donor Advised funds.

[00:52:25.44] spk_6:
All those in the funds, not the gift from the OK, Those aren’t the individual accounts in the funds. Okay, There are almost 600 funds in North Carolina. OK, got you

[00:52:29.83] spk_3:
170 7

[00:52:34.65] spk_6:
177 OK? Yes. Yeah.

[00:53:13.42] spk_3:
Anyway, there certainly something Teoh look for. Especially if you’re trying to reach out to more regionalize families. And, you know, that might be concentrating there. They’re getting in your particular state because then you can see exactly where the gifts on. You know, the types of organizations that A that the owner of my sons have been looking for example. So you can see, you know, there that the gift that here was here, the gift was made. Ah, you can see the where the gift was made, the type of non profit that it is. It’s you. No, you can’t. Yes, You get a lot of data.

[00:53:39.99] spk_6:
Okay. So you could see the charities that they gave Teoh for those similar to your your work. Okay. Exactly. So maybe so. Maybe I waves worth the extra extra money. Whatever it iss. All right, just, uh I wave dot com or yeah, yeah. Oh, um, so couple other things

[00:54:44.24] spk_3:
I wanted to let everybody know about, um I learned that there’s a site e a f not award. Okay, DF direct and what they what you can do there is. It’s a great tool for non process use, and it facilitates giving, um, through donor advised funds. There’s a widget that you can add as a non profit chili gordo so that, as people are, you know, maybe research on their own and, you know, for non profits to donate to in their community, if they stumbled on your organization in their own search, right, maybe they’re using GuideStar or another similar tool to research nonprofits. If you come up and they get to your website, why not make it is easiest possible to connect directly from your website to their donor advised funds. So it’s a widget that connects don’t raise funds and to the donors.

[00:54:52.74] spk_6:
All right, so people are browsing your site. They can click on this and give

[00:54:53.29] spk_3:
him a

[00:55:01.74] spk_6:
group, right? But they have to have a donor advised fund at one of the one of the entities that coordinates or that’s affiliate with this ridge. It right?

[00:55:17.96] spk_3:
Yes, but so many of them are right now, so it’s definitely something that that actually was. I was doing my research for this show that came up multiple. Bless you.

[00:55:19.24] spk_6:
Told you I said I was gonna sneeze, but you’re that’s you’re talking.

[00:55:23.93] spk_3:
So it definitely is worth looking at that site and seeing if that’s a widget. You may want to add to your own website because it’s gonna cost anything.

[00:55:45.67] spk_6:
Okay, Okay. And they’re affiliated with some of the top ones. Okay. All right. Um, you could also be talking to your You know, you could always reach out to your donors. Um, through Europe, you’re here. Whatever your channels are to remind them that they can make their own donor advised fund distribution. You know, technically, it’s a recommendation. But 99.9% of the recommendations get accepted. Approved. But, you know, you could just be directly reminding donors that they can give to you through their donor advised fund.

[00:56:09.13] spk_3:
That’s right. That’s right. So make sure that Burbage is on your website and any other marketing materials and communications that you have.

[00:56:24.73] spk_6:
Yeah. Yeah. Just remind you people. Um okay. I mean, that that was an easy one. Just what else? Ah, you’ve been thinking about this longer than I have what else will?

[00:56:28.98] spk_3:
So the other thing, too that I think some people forget to ask for is to set up recurring gif ts to your organization. So if you’re already getting some money from a donor advised fund, why not approach those that family and see if they’d be interested in setting up recurring donations to your organization? Supposed to a one once a year gift. So very often it’s very easy for the fund administrator to set that up for you. Um, so that would be a great way to bring in some additional, more consistent cash flow here, or there you

[00:57:02.20] spk_6:
go. Yeah, right. Sustaining sustainer gifts from donor advised funds. Okay.

[00:57:07.97] spk_3:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. Um, and then, you know, finally, you want to think about success successor gifts, So you can have, um the organization can be named as his successor after the donor dies. So you you know, as you know, tony and plan giving and so forth the language has to be set up properly and so forth, so that might be a discussion to have with people a swell to breathe. The organization to be named as the successor to the fund

[00:57:43.01] spk_6:
Okay. Very good. Just wait. Same way donors can name your organization to there as a beneficiary of their life insurance policy or pension IRA. Any any. Any financial asset with, ah, people on death or a transfer on death closets called. But you don’t have to know that. Just you have to know this is a death beneficiary possible and that can apply to your donors. Donor advised funds as well.

[00:58:08.29] spk_3:
That’s right. That’s right. Yeah.

[00:58:13.62] spk_6:
All right. Very simple. Cool. Um, anything else I don’t want to cut. You don’t cut you off? No,

[00:58:16.80] spk_3:
I I’m looking at my last Avenger. I’m looking at my notes, and I think that I think we covered all the bases that I want to touch upon And, you know, just making sure that people understand that even though they can be vexing, there are some things that you can do to research them and to build relationships and definitely thanking and stewarding those that are already donating to you through a through a donor advice fund.

[00:59:53.37] spk_6:
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Don’t don’t be put off by these things And there’s enormous amounts of money in them. Is enormous amounts of money coming from them to charities. Um, everything you said? I agree. Just like yeah, they’re not going to Calgary. Oh, yeah, you can’t be. You can’t be put off by the vexations. You may not find out whoever who every gift came from, but you can make efforts best efforts and you’ll find out a good number of them. And you will be able to thank your donors. I remember, you know, and some don’t just want to be anonymous. No, they just don’t want to be. No. So that’s your donor’s choice. It’s not the administrator deliberately frustrating your purpose. Your donors. Some of the donors may just want to be anonymous, and that’s their prerogative. So except that move on to the donors that you can find and thanking and well, solicit for the future. So definitely look into donor advised funds. Don’t be put off by them. There’s enormous wealth in them. There’s enormous wealth coming from them. Okay, Thank you. Very simple. Alright, Maria Sample. She’s the Prospect Finder. The prospect finder dot com our prospect research contributor our doi end of their cheap and free. Uh, you’ll find her at the Prospect Finder. Thanks very much. Foria. Thanks.

[01:00:09.12] spk_3:
Have any good to see you

[01:00:48.58] spk_1:
next week? 20 NTC panels. Most likely if you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our

[01:01:28.50] spk_0:
creative producer is clear, Meyerhoff. I did the postproduction Sam Liebowitz managed The Stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy. In this music is by Scots. He was the next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

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[00:00:16.14] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%.

[00:02:25.94] spk_0:
I’m your aptly named host. This is a special short episode of non profit radio Corona virus and non profit fundraising. Corona virus needs no introduction We’re recording on Monday, March 23rd on profits are scrambling and struggling, scrambling to adapt to workflow, and personal upheavals will subside. The struggle will get worse. The need among those you help has increased and will become greater expenses of all sorts from helping those in need to disinfecting offices to increased reliance on technology are rising. At the same time, there’s financial pressure on your donors in the face of firings, layoffs, work reductions as the individual donors is also financial pressure on your institutional funders. Is it wise for you to spend? Can you count on your donors when this is over, whether individual or institutional, can you fund raise in the midst of the crisis? My guest is Paul Schervish, retired director of the Center on Wealth and Philanthropy at Boston College, were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. My Cougar Mountain software Denali Fund is there Complete accounting solution made for nonprofits. Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. It’s a great pleasure to welcome back to the show. Paul Schervish. He’s professor emeritus at Boston College and retired director of their Center on Wealth and Philanthropy. He’s the author of seven books on Giving and wealth. He’s been studying philanthropy for over 35 years. He’s at Paul Schervish. Great pleasure to welcome you back, Paul. How are you,

[00:02:32.87] spk_6:
tony? It’s a pleasure to be back. I’m just doing fine. Laying low, being an elder statesman, or at least another.

[00:02:38.77] spk_2:
No, you’re You’re here to provide context. Historical context. Which eyes going to reassure all of us. So the elder statesman is appropriate on. Where are you? Ah, where you staying? In place.

[00:03:04.57] spk_6:
We’re in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, where we moved from Boston. Ah, for 1/2 year. We live in Boston the other half of the year where our two boys live. But down here, um, is where our first grandchild arrived. And so we spend half the year down here.

[00:03:12.10] spk_2:
All the reason to move only only half the year. I’m surprised your wife, your wife would like to stay longer. I’m wondering.

[00:03:15.98] spk_6:
No, not at all. Because they’re two boys live in Boston. Grandchildren there, too. So, uh, there we go.

[00:03:22.82] spk_3:
Okay. Well, I’m, uh I’m several hours east

[00:03:36.84] spk_2:
of you. I’m on the coast in Emerald Isle, North Carolina, also also in place. And the governor today just ah, closed. Um, what

[00:03:37.22] spk_3:
did you do

[00:03:40.54] spk_0:
today? Today was just Ah, we already had. Oh, that was a local. Yeah, the governor today. Locally, they

[00:03:59.24] spk_2:
had they had done some things. But the governor of North Carolina today, Governor Cooper just closed. Um, beauty salons, massage therapists, barbershops, movie theaters, Jim’s, um right Cooper, Governor. Right, Cooper. Um all right,

[00:04:09.48] spk_3:
So what, uh, what’s your star general know? What’s your what’s your sense

[00:04:10.18] spk_2:
of what non profits are facing and should look forward to?

[00:07:06.64] spk_6:
Well, I hate to quote Rumsfeld, but what we’re facing is those I’ve known unknowns that he talked about, remember? He said they were known unknowns, and there were unknown unknowns, remember? And this is a biological event of an unprecedented nature. Not in the extent that we haven’t had major plagues in history, and we can certainly trace back to the 2018. Clue 2019 flu. I’m in 1919 1918. Um, but this is unprecedented in that this is taking place in an age of dramatic globalization and interaction, coupled with the dramatic situation of biological and scientific progress and and potential insight. So right now, what we do know is that this spreads quickly. It has a death rate that we’re starting to learn may not be as great as we had once feared. But what we don’t know is its termination date and how it will exhaust itself. And so anything we’re going to talk about for charity’s contributing to their, um ah, receiving money from their sponsors or charities contributing to those that they support Our, uh, philanthropy is contributing. We don’t have a time frame for this, like we might have had for recessions and so on. And even for 2011 29 11 when we, um, actually had, uh, on increase of giving within a year. So, uh, sound like Zach and, uh, the great recession of 2007 2008 29. Um, we had about a five year decline and terrible giving. It went up in some of those years, but the trajectory of charitable giving was down for about five years. If you looked at it as going up from a year 2000 2 2007 and if that had continued to grow, um, we would have had 350 billion more dollars given to charity from 2008 to 2013. So we lost a year. Charitable giving if, um, the, um, trajectory from 27 had continued unabated. So that was a longer hiatus and terrible giving. We lost about it. Ah, whole year’s worth. Over those five years,

[00:07:13.64] spk_2:
the trajectory of charitable giving is always positive that the long term trajectory

[00:07:18.80] spk_6:
that’s correct,

[00:07:20.44] spk_2:
okay, that that in itself is grounding and and reassuring. We always it always does come back.

[00:07:37.31] spk_6:
And I also think it’s important to note that something that Patrick Rooney and I Patrick from the Center on Philanthropy in Indiana and I have talked about is that even giving us A is a low ball estimate. We think there’s a lot more giving then what we can measure Ah, in a meaningful and in a sober manner. And this giving, of course, does not include all the informal giving that accelerates at this time that people don’t realize she could be recorded his formal giving or that people are giving and shouldn’t be recorded as formal giving. And it isn’t so. There’s a lot of intra family help at times like this that actually does make up for quote unquote the decline and formal giving. Oh,

[00:08:24.54] spk_2:
interesting. Yeah. So you’re you’re yes. You’re bringing now family family support. It’s just private support. Me. Could be family. Could be friends.

[00:08:33.22] spk_6:
That’s right.

[00:08:33.89] spk_2:
That’s not recorded as a CZ. You and I talk about non profit fundraising.

[00:08:39.43] spk_6:
That’s right.

[00:08:40.30] spk_2:
Yeah. Yeah. All right,

[00:08:42.54] spk_3:
All right. So then, you know, the non profit community

[00:09:00.24] spk_2:
has greater expenses. Like I was saying in the intro, whether it’s technology or disinfecting offices or, you know, uh, you are, of course, greater need to, uh to the to those who were serving and

[00:09:13.35] spk_3:
that just that doesn’t apply only to, uh, institutions, organizations that serve individuals. But, you know, culture is important. Yeah, Theater’s air closed now, but cultural institutions need to keep themselves going, whether It’s a museum or a theater group. Okay, These these air both closed now, um, but they’re gonna come back. And so the theater group theatre company needs to have ah ah. Pipeline of directors and shows planned. Um, the museum needs to think about, you know, curating for the future on being opened again. Will they will open again. So I’m not only

[00:09:44.31] spk_2:
thinking of individuals and, you know, bring in arts groups and environment of course. Mean so

[00:09:53.94] spk_3:
the work has to continue. And, um, in some cases,

[00:10:05.77] spk_2:
there’s a special, special, greater need, but the upset cause is greater expenses, too. Like I said, possibly reliance on technology irrespective of what kind of mission. So

[00:10:11.24] spk_3:
in the face of these greater needs, whatever form they take, um, are we safe to be spending

[00:10:14.24] spk_2:
beyond what we anticipated? Beyond what we what we budgeted?

[00:14:11.09] spk_6:
Well, the answer that I told my students over all the years that is the first answer of wisdom is that it depends. It depends on what kind of organization we’re talking about. Depends on whether a hospital depends on whether we’re receiving as a nonprofit organization or as a public organization. State funds to keep going. Let’s think of it as what we’re hearing from the federal government. What we’re hearing from state governments. There’s two arenas. One is the, um the people, the employees. And there’s a certain amount of expenditure that charities are going to need to support their employees. They way they want to support people in the community. It’s hard to treat your employees more harshly. Then you want a treat. You’re, um uh, the people in the community, Uh, these are your family members, so to speak. And so Charity’s first of all have an obligation, too. And we’ll find, I think, happy response among thunders for keeping employees uh, engaged and hired. Now we’re gonna have to work out the way there is the government non profit partnership here because of people are quote laid off that has some of their salary played paid for by unemployment benefits. And so maybe there’s unemployment benefits that the state the government will provide, and then the non profit makes up for that difference. To keep people from quitting or joining another, uh, employment opportunity. You see how this can get complex In a second area is the institution itself the survival of the institution. And just as the government is providing money for businesses to continue to exist so that there’s places for employees after the troubles are over, um, the nonprofit sector has to keep going in a way that there’s a place for the employees to be working and their jobs to be contributing to the community when the crisis is over, if there is a need for layoffs and we can talk about what donors may think about, but let’s just take one place to start. Let’s start with organizations that have no endowment versus for those with the small endowment versus for those with a grand endowment and what they can do. I think most universities they’re not laying people off, especially those with it was a great endowment. Um, they have the tuition for the year, even if their tuition driven. They have there the most of their revenue already in the coffers. They’re going to continue to grant credits, and they’re going to be able to keep their income stream alive at least until the beginning of the next semester. So that’s just one example. Often organization that may not need a dramatic infusion of charitable dollars at this point, and that takes us to the donor. The donor is goingto have to be picking and choosing maybe one that has contributed ah, large amount over years to uneducated l Institution might for the next six months shift that giving away from an organization that doesn’t need the money it much immediately to an organization that is proceed to be much more in need immediately

[00:14:15.78] spk_3:
now. So, historically, have we seen a shift like that? Have we measured that?

[00:14:56.45] spk_6:
Yes, wenn er the great recession took place 2008 2009 We found, as I said, a decrease in charitable giving overall. But giving too social service is was sustained much better. And after after 9 11 1 of the reasons why charitable giving didn’t go down. It was before we had this kind of crisis Fatigue, charity, fatigue.

[00:14:59.44] spk_7:
Um uh,

[00:15:27.84] spk_6:
9 11 produced a lot of charitable giving, and if it did it for the people that were, uh, immediate loss for their, um, family life and way of making a living, and it did it for communities and for businesses that were caught in that trap. And so the money shifted in 20 in the great recession. And it also shifted for crisis relief in on 9 11

[00:15:47.24] spk_2:
Okay, Yeah. 9 11 is a bit of a different case, because the funders, whether institutional or individual, we’re not enormously impacted the way we are are all now impacted.

[00:16:02.64] spk_6:
One time shock. Yes, rather than an indefinite period of time that effects that the wealth of the donors, um, directly run in. And you’re very correct about that.

[00:16:07.33] spk_2:
Yeah. Um, so that I don’t want to discount 9 11 lessons. I’m not. No,

[00:16:12.26] spk_6:
no, no, you’re not. You’re not, But it’s a very good point

[00:16:23.24] spk_2:
context. The great recession seems Maur. Ah, more of an apt analogy. Um, for that reason, if

[00:17:18.68] spk_6:
you ever want to know what’s going to happen, the philanthropy look at the income and wealth. Gross or declines that fire outstrips any tax effects that are written about all the time in the nonprofit sector. Worries about all the time. Um, we had a natural experiment after the great recession. Um, there was no change in the tax laws that took place for those five or six years. No, except the tiny bit in the marginal tax rate for capital gains. But that was not that important. Okay, so without any tax change, we saw a dramatic decrease and terrible giving due to the decrease in wealth and an income. And the income effect and the wealth effect far outstrip any of these tax effects that the charity’s air always be moaning. Whenever they hear that there might be a decrease in taxes. They feel that the discount rate for donors is going down, and they’re going to give less. Well, in the past, that may have been the case. But today, wealth is growing normally so greatly that far outstrips any effect that the tax rates have.

[00:17:45.94] spk_2:
All right, now, people don’t feel so wealthy right now.

[00:17:49.09] spk_6:
That’s right. And that’s why that’s very important.

[00:17:51.42] spk_2:
They don’t write and they don’t know for how long. They’re not gonna feel so wealthy.

[00:17:58.24] spk_6:
Are these so wealthy? Yeah,

[00:17:58.95] spk_2:
I was. Yeah,

[00:18:03.40] spk_6:
I was returning. Dollars have been lost in the stock market, right over 1/3

[00:18:04.35] spk_2:
of value in the

[00:18:05.30] spk_6:
market has been lost.

[00:18:37.04] spk_2:
Yeah, you’re right. I’m I’m thinking of the perception you’re grounding in the reality, but e I mean, they’re both The reality creates the perception, your question of how long after the reality subs theat reality improves, Does the perception linger? But right now we’re in the midst of the reality, the reality of the perception of equal. Now we’ve lost a lot of wealth. Couple trillion dollars. Um, people are concerned about their jobs. Whether the jobs will continue or or just be reduced. Working hours be reduced. So incomes reduced so over people are not feeling wealthy.

[00:19:29.04] spk_6:
Well, I’m gonna command Is that that for that insight about the sensibility of it did not in addition to the objective reality, because our own research has shown that over a period of time, very wealthy, um have an objective view of their financial security, but also a subject of one. And the lower the subjective you, no matter what their objective circumstances, the less they give to charity. And it is also true for people who are not wealthy, for whom income studies have been done. And when people feel that their incomes were going to rise over the next few years, um, they will give more to charity than those who feel that they’re not going to be rising. So it is even without the objective circumstance. Your note about the sensitivity is very important. And that does linger just as you suggested.

[00:19:51.74] spk_2:
I’m talked to a lot of experts. I’m trainable. I’ve heard this a few times, so I Hi, I’m trainable. Um

[00:19:54.36] spk_3:
all right. So what does that mean

[00:19:59.74] spk_2:
for fundraising? Look, I don’t mean this week or this month, even still March,

[00:20:08.64] spk_3:
but what does it mean for fundraising? Thio help counter

[00:20:13.31] spk_2:
some of these increased expenses in Let’s say, you know, April, May June, do we

[00:20:17.05] spk_3:
have to just wait and see? Ah, how people feel or or can we go out and test our our constituents for for fundraising messages?

[00:24:48.84] spk_6:
I think that what we have to do is have a fundraising message that’s functional. Are we disappearing? And are my workers disappearing? Or are we going to be able to survive? Now there’s two sides of this when we talk about a arts organization, a museum or theater, they have funding from fundraise from by fundraising, but they also have revenue from attendance. And so those that are losing revenue by attendance from lack of attendance are going to be suffering more than those that are just able to keep their revenue alive. Um, for instance, hospitals will be able to keep their revenue alive over this period of time. While arts groups may not be able to, universities may be able to keep the revenue stream alive Attn least until the fall, until we find out more of what’s happening. While some social service organizations may not be able to a large community foundations with endowments, um, we’ll be able to do better than those without endowments. Um uh, organizations that have AH connection to people with donor advised funds will do better because donor advised funds are are terrible savings accounts that people will be able to contribute from even if they can’t add to them at this point. So there’s all these dimensions. But what I would advise charities to do is to be very honest about two things. Their employees and there beneficiaries are their beneficiaries being taken care of without them at this point, and they can cut back on those service is or are those service is remaining the same? Are they increasing their employees? Are their employees going to be able to because of the revenue stream, mainly continue to be employed. Supermarkets, food banks, perhaps, and so on because they’re being supported by the community, Um, or by government, um, places where school systems air, providing our continue to provide the breakfast and lunch programs. They’re different from communities that are dropping those programs and need private funding for them. You follow all of this and I hope our listeners are So what I would do if I were a donor, as I would look to a charity and how honest it is to be about its two major instrumental needs. Its beneficiaries And those programs on the one hand and the second instrumental need its employees, and I would see what needs to be done about that. And you know what’s happening out there? Is that some donors air actually contacting charities and saying, What do you need? I know one family that contributes to an inner city school in Detroit, and we were talking with them, and what they did is they found out that that inner city grade school is using the chromebooks that that family has contributed two grades five through eight, and they asked, Do you need more chromebooks for your youngsters? that the parents can use with the kids. The answer came back. Not yet, but we may. But that was something that the donor asked about a specific thing that was specifically needed for continuing education for the lowers, the lowest grades in school, the way they’re continuing education for the middle school. And uh huh. So those things are happening.

[00:24:57.01] spk_2:
Yeah. So that’s right. That’s the individual that the donor reaching out to the charity. Maybe. Can we say, you know, I don’t know. Six. Well,

[00:25:02.35] spk_3:
there’s value in keeping in touch

[00:25:03.96] spk_2:
with your your major donors. You’re

[00:25:21.78] spk_3:
even if this is not the time to be asking them to give, but explaining what the needs are. You know, like that that example. You know, we don’t need Chromebooks now, but maybe in the future, you know, we’re stable now, but six weeks from now, we the needs, maybe X y z

[00:25:26.64] spk_6:
So, yes, that’s really

[00:25:28.31] spk_3:
being not asking, but communicating the needs, sort of like you would do with a friend or a family member, you know? No, I’m okay right now, but six weeks from now, I might need some help,

[00:26:06.14] spk_6:
you know, be in touch. Done kind of messages. Yeah, we call you. Yes, and I think that’s a great week. See, sometimes donors feel, um, neglected by not being asked. Isn’t that a strange thing? You know, you know, that’s one of the major things I call the new physics of philanthropy that instead of donors having to be approached and squeezed, donors are looking for a good opportunity to give. And especially if you’re already giving to an organization. You know, they value you and approach you just mentioned is a very good one to pursue.

[00:26:20.04] spk_2:
Same same as the board members who we find unsatisfied because they’re not sufficiently asked to contribute their their time and time and talent to the accusation that not asked to do enough. It’s the It’s a paradox that I’m asked. I’m not asked to do enough, so I’m losing interest in being a board member on the charity side. They’re afraid to ask the board members to doom or because they feel they’re over taxing them. Same. But

[00:26:50.19] spk_6:
I ran into a paradox one of the Kennedys at an event, and, uh, we’re

[00:26:52.04] spk_2:
dropping names now. Look, a dropping names, Kennedy family.

[00:27:25.44] spk_6:
Oh, no, no. There are in the Boston area, and it was one of the one of the younger kids and and we were he said, What do you do? And I’m going on He said, You know, one of things that happened the other day, I was really anxious to give to such and such, and they never asked me, and I was really kind of upset about that. You know, it’s just what we’re saying, and it’s a strange thing you may think, but you want to be valued for what you can do. And if you could do something, you want to be asked about it,

[00:27:28.74] spk_2:
right? And if now is not the time to be asking, now is a good time to be

[00:27:33.76] spk_3:
communicating about what’s happening at the organization, you know, telling your stories

[00:27:57.84] spk_2:
about employee dislocation. Um, parent employees who are now have kids at home that used to be in school, um, and telling the needs of the stories of your beneficiaries the stories of your building that you can’t access, but you’re still to pay rent on, um, you know,

[00:28:13.64] spk_3:
telling these stories the needs are just gonna be be evident and you’re not asking now, but you’re sort of laying the groundwork for asking when it’s, you know, six weeks of past or so 4 to 6 weeks of past. You’re starting to lay the groundwork. Not conniving Lee, but just being honest with laying, laying out the stories of what’s happening now, so that when the need is there, um, it’s not a surprise to your funders.

[00:30:07.20] spk_6:
Well, take you picking up on exactly what you’re saying. If I were to make one recommendation to charities and I have received from charities and from newsletters and from financial advisors, I’m on all these lists because I like to read and I’m reluctant to miss anything. And and most of them are telling us about the covert virus and what’s gonna happen and wash your hands and and we don’t know exactly what’s gonna happen. But you know, it’s time for the charities to start sending letters to their donors about themselves and their beneficiaries, where we may not be in need right now, but here’s what’s happening to us. I would be interested to learn from some charities what’s happening to us. Um, if Boston College were to send out a, um ah, a letter saying financially, we do an annual report, and, uh, but this is what’s happening at Boston College these days could be partly financial. It could be party, uh, in Roman issues. It could be partly added expenses, and it may not be a request for donations at this time. But to hear about what’s happening to the groups and the beneficiaries for whom you care is, I think, a new kind of communication that can be part of this Corona virus communications network and content

[00:30:26.09] spk_2:
and then in the in the medium to long term. Um, and we don’t know what that term is. Um, the history shows us that giving will recover.

[00:31:15.48] spk_6:
That is correct. Let’s think of churches right now. Um, it is kind of a paradigm they’re not holding. Service is, um, now a lot of churches get their revenue by the collection basket each Sunday. Others get the major portion of theirs Bye pledges in November, December, and so on. Those that get their revenue by pledges and have regular communication and maybe are doing service is on the Web, or so one are gonna be more in connection with their donors and those that are supporting it. But church is an interesting thing. See churches, an organization that the donor uses, the donor and the recipient to a church

[00:31:17.83] spk_9:
is the same person, the same

[00:31:43.58] spk_6:
family. Yeah, and so there’s a close identification there. But there’s also the fact that if you’re not using the service is at the present time, does that distance you more then from the organizations whom you contribute to but you don’t use? The service is from so we’re gonna have to see right or will people say their church can continue? I don’t mind it if we have to cut back a little bit as long as our pastor is paid or our pastors air paid.

[00:31:55.27] spk_7:
Um mmm. But

[00:33:37.24] spk_6:
maybe other things are a priority, But we’ll see. And this is the uncertainty that’s plaguing the stock market. It’s played in charity. It’s plaguing donors. It’s plaguing charities. It’s plaguing foundations. Everywhere you look, it’s playing in the medical world, this uncertainty and it would just be maybe a miracle. Maybe a great lesson, maybe just the way things play out. Or maybe all of those that if this were to have a shorter six week duration in the United States or across the world. Um, it’s section of the world having a six week duration of this in which it peaks and then true tales. Or there’s some biological discovery or scientific breakthrough. Um, this could change this whole crisis. And I think behind everybody’s anxiousness is also this maybe even on reasonable hope. That is also at play. And so there is some of this. We’re in crisis now, but maybe there won’t be a crisis in two months or six weeks. I will begin to see this curtail. Um, the stock market does not seem to be saying this is short life or this is turning the corner.

[00:33:51.34] spk_2:
Yeah, they didn’t seem to be. There’s not commentary suggesting that, but that’s that is reasonable. I know you’re you’re capturing it. You’re calling an unreasonable, unreasonable hope. It’s all the All the medical commentary is that we haven’t seen the worst. It’s gonna get much worse before it gets any better.

[00:34:47.99] spk_6:
Yeah, and, ah, But if there is a biological breakthrough with some of the medications that they talk about low key at the present time, even today again, they say there’s close to more than 1/2 a dozen that they’re starting to experiment with and mixtures and so on. There just might be something there, but we’re not. We’re not a piece. By finding out the young people are perhaps more vulnerable than we thought. Our at least. Ah, the carriers more more being carriers and them congregating and not stopping to congregate could be a factor. That’s just gonna leave this to continue longer. We don’t know people after 14 days are still contagious the way they were previously. All these things you’re gonna make all the difference in the world. But I’m not a medal.

[00:35:48.74] spk_2:
Right? So bring it, bring it back to nonprofits, you know? Yeah, there’s enormous uncertainty. Um, but we don’t want you to lose your head heads. And it’s not what individual one collective head. We don’t want you to lose your heads. We don’t want you to lose your humanity. Um, share the share. What’s happening with your funders, including institutional. Um, and, um, and, you know, be grounded in the confidence that your major donors will be there for you when they can, and that giving overall will recover in the in the mid to long term And I understand. You know, we don’t know what that what those terms are, but it will. So, you know, I think you go about your work in Ah, you know, in a in a thoughtful, uh, in a thoughtful way. Even even with, uh, you know, even with uncertainty

[00:36:36.53] spk_6:
now, there’s, uh, four areas that, while hindered and lessened by the drops in the stock market, remain good potential. Um, sources of giving. Let’s start with donor advised funds. Most people in their donor advised funds have, ah, their investments invested in various kinds of stock funds, mutual funds. But that doesn’t mean that they’ve been emptied out and you can give from them a second source that charities ought to be asking and reminding people about is the required minimum distributions

[00:36:48.47] spk_2:
All right, the IRA?

[00:37:31.36] spk_6:
Yeah, that’s right. And that money has to be taken out this year. No matter what’s happening in the stock market, you’ve got to take out what they designated from last January 1st right is the amount. And if you are above a certain amount of wealth, that $100,000 that you can contribute that limit from your r. M. D is not much to you and can really be activated for large numbers of people that are pretty wealthy or higher, affluent. And the charities can educate about that. They can also put on their websites a buttons that are now being developed to contribute from RMDS and to contribute from donor advised funds

[00:37:41.81] spk_2:
before we go 23 and four. Where can you name any place where you’re seeing these

[00:37:52.43] spk_6:
buttons? I can’t. All I know is that I’ve seen in the past, um, discussions about them and advertisements for them. I don’t think it would be hard for any charity to say. Um how do I,

[00:38:03.58] spk_7:
um uh,

[00:38:05.52] spk_6:
website button for a donor advice fund for gifts from donor advice when they’re gonna be advertising to make sure you know about it so they won’t be hard to find.

[00:38:15.72] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. What’s what’s number three?

[00:38:41.72] spk_6:
Number number three would be foundations that despite a decrease in their assets right now, I still have large pools of money. They can, since they can average over a period of years, their quote 5% requirement of donation they can, without worrying about keeping us up forever, contribute 7% this year and give less next year. If the crisis doesn’t continue, Our that becomes a possibility because of the ability to average out over three years. That 5% column me on that. Okay.

[00:39:24.22] spk_2:
Again? Yes. So keep in touch with your institutional funders again. This may not be that this is not the week or maybe even the month or the couple of several weeks to be asking, but keep in touch. You know, institutions are made of people. Institutional funders are made up of people, project officers, program officers. Um, let them hear from you. Okay, what’s your number? Four?

[00:40:12.21] spk_6:
Number four is something that is really connected in a way to all the others. Um, and that’s your endowment spending from your endowment. What else is it for? I mean, it can be, ah, security blanket, but it’s time for people. Two makes some may be emotional sacrifice not just a financial one, but an emotional one that says that I don’t have to keep accumulating in my endowment. I can spend some of it for a crisis, and that’s what it’s for. In part, it’s not just to provide long term security, but don’t forget without spending from your endowment. Your long term security maybe undercut by this short term crisis.

[00:40:41.41] spk_2:
That’s a very good point. Yeah, because I’m of course, that requires board action and thoughtful planning, but yeah, that’s a very good point. You’re You may undercut your long term by being, ah, to, um, too cautious in the immediate term.

[00:40:45.01] spk_6:
That’s right. We may

[00:40:55.01] spk_2:
not be the may not be a middle long term for you if you’re not cautious in the short term. And if you have the endowment wherewithal Ah, that maybe that’s that’s worth looking at through.

[00:41:06.31] spk_6:
And And, of course, you know that’s not a bad message to your donors that you’re willing to put quote your money on the line as well. Yeah,

[00:41:10.31] spk_2:
we’re not just asking for you, right, But we’re we’re dipping into our own long term savings

[00:41:13.12] spk_6:
yet instead of grown on, have made us a good institution. And we’re going to come out of this a great institution, you know,

[00:41:58.05] spk_2:
and, ah, A footnote for organizations that don’t have an endowment when we’re through this, uh, endowment growth or endowment creation is something for you to go to make a priority again. When we’re through this planned giving can be very good at that. However, you’re gonna do it if you don’t have that endowment. That forthe problem that you just mentioned. Paul, Um, it’s it’s something to make a priority for the next the next crisis.

[00:41:59.27] spk_6:
And you will say that’s why we’re raising, you know, And then people will understand it at this point,

[00:42:05.84] spk_2:
especially after this, right? All right, again, a footnote. I footnoted. I think that’s where it belongs. Uh, footnote not an end note. I prefer footnotes. Then I want to flip to the back of the book all the time. I don’t know. I have more footnotes over in there.

[00:44:10.99] spk_6:
One more footnote would be something you hinted at earlier. So we’ll move in from the back of the book to the page. And that is, um, treating your donors in the way that you want to treat your beneficiaries. Um, I always say this to universities. When I give talks, you have the students in front of you yet Boston College and Holy Cross at Harvard wherever and Emerson College. I just think a few of University of Detroit where I will and you want to treat this student, not only to information you want to treat them to personal formation. And when they graduate, you sometimes forget that you still want to be part of their personal happiness in formation, and all you want is their money. And so this is a time to remember what you ought to be doing all the time. And you were suggesting being in contact with your donors, you’re being in contact with your donors and maybe asking him how you do it. You’re part of us. I’m not just asking you this because you’ve given us money and we hope that you will continue to honor us with your gifts in the future. We’re sincerely interested in you, and we know that those that donate tow us are as anxious and worried about their families as we are about our own. And we are about the people we serve. How about a letter like that that is sincere to the very bottom of your heart? Because these are your constituents to your donors are part of your constituents.

[00:44:46.49] spk_2:
I love it, Paul. I’m thinking about a video on that exact subject around planned giving, which is what I do. Plan to giving consulting and, uh, using this as a time to do send exactly those kinds of messages with people you’re close enough to It could be a phone call. It could be a short hand written note. Um, you know, it doesn’t have to be. Ah, Doesn’t have to be an elaborate letter. Then that’d be a long letter. It never takes length. Month never trumps sincerity. And, uh, and genuine genuineness.

[00:44:52.59] spk_6:
Your donorsnames. Right? I get letters. That’s a deer. A p

[00:44:54.69] spk_2:
Okay. Yeah, Well, that’s that’s your database. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, that’s all. Another subject.

[00:44:59.85] spk_6:
But no, don’t screw that up when you’re writing a good letter.

[00:45:06.69] spk_2:
Yeah, that’s true. You’re right. Um, yes. Keeping in touch and heartfelt ways we’re thinking about you. We hope you’re well and safe. We we wish the same for your family. We just want you to know you’re important to

[00:45:16.75] spk_6:
us. Yeah, really are about

[00:45:19.62] spk_2:
sincerely. You know, that’s it. And that comes from Ah, gift officer doesn’t have to be a CEO board member letter and president.

[00:45:27.47] spk_6:
Consign it. I mean, maybe maybe the dean signs. Um no clothes in a picture of the dean right there. So you know, you make it personal and you don’t act it. I mean, in this day and age is easy. Send an email I’m and write it well, and you know,

[00:45:44.19] spk_3:
well, it can also it also come

[00:46:08.38] spk_2:
from a gift officer. That’s right. If you know if there’s a relationship that’s right. Relationship there. That’s right. Gift officers. Good. All right, Paul, we’re gonna wrap it up. Um, so any any parting thought? I mean, we had lots of good advice, sir. I’m not We’re not looking, toe, uh, take off all the advice that you provided. But what

[00:46:08.51] spk_3:
do you want? Do you

[00:46:09.09] spk_0:
want to

[00:46:09.28] spk_2:
leave people with Final

[00:46:57.49] spk_6:
Five? Don’t do too much mission drift. Um, uh, if you were doing arts funding, um, you might want to stick with that at this time. You know, um, both as a donor and as a foundation. Um uh, mission drift can take place at this time because there’s always, well, politically correct or exigencies that seem to be so important. You can’t who ate them, And I will just say, um uh, take care of your workers and avoid mission drift. So take care of your donors. Take care of your beneficiaries. Take care of yourselves. You know,

[00:47:03.62] spk_2:
and your employees as well.

[00:47:04.93] spk_6:
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Yeah, that’s real

[00:47:14.58] spk_2:
Pool service. Sh Professor emeritus at Boston College. Retired director there. Center on wealth and Philanthropy. You’ll find him at Paul Schervish s C h E R v I s H Paul. Thank you very much for sharing elder statesman. Thank you very much.

[00:47:23.70] spk_6:
My pleasure. Good job.

Nonprofit Radio for April 27, 2018: Big Impact

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host uh feels so good to be back in the studio and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with pro doth ecosystem if you tried to infect me with the idea that you missed today’s show big impact let’s learn the best ideas from the brightest leaders in social change vivian hoexter is co author of the book big impact, and she shares lessons and reflections from interviews for her book. Attorneys take two my number one eighteen ntcdinosaur away we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna may slash pursuant radio bye weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna em a slash tony tell us, oh, it feels so good to be back in the studio and to have a guest in the studio, she’s vivian hoexter she said, in your life, it’s unbelievable she’s right here during extra she’s, co author with linda hartley of the book big impact insights. And strategies from america’s non-profit leaders she’s a principal also with linda hartley of h two growth strategies. I’m gonna ask her if she does anything without linda hartley on if they’re married or they’re married to each other’s brothers or something, i don’t know. I’m also talking about this company name. I think you blew it, but we’ll get to that. So what do vivian and linda do in h to growth strategies? They advise non-profits and foundations in strategies, effective marketing and increasing revenues both earned and contributed. She also coaches executives. She was ceo of gilda’s club worldwide. No, them the red doors. Everybody knows them. They are at h two growth strategies. Dot com. And she is at the hoexter. Welcome, vivian hoexter. Thank you, tony it’s. Great to be here to pleasure. Pleasure to have you in the studio. Um, this book you you interviewed lots of people. We did hominy hominy non-profit leaders. Did you seek out near it? Turned out to be nearly fifty. Fifty. Okay, but the cover only has twenty one pictures. This is at the top twenty one of the fifty. Those air. The twenty one who are featured those eyes that how it works. Okay. Those are the ones i read about that air featured. Okay through. But then you had quotes from another thirty nine that’s that’s. Right. Ok, over how many years you you talk to these people. So the process from start to finish took us about two years. Yeah, the hole in the process of interviewing and then writing and editing and publishing the book. Now, how do we know that you’ve got the best fifty non-profit minds? How did you select out of the thousands that are available? Really? Well, i have to say it’s a highly was a highly subjective list. Your friends. Well, the ones that would meet you on your timetable. In some cases, we knew the leaders before we approach them. But that was a really not very many of them did we know. So we really wanted to get a kind of a sampling of folks from the different, if you will, the verticals in the nonprofit sector. Because if you look for books on leadership, you find hundreds of corporate books, but not very many non-profit books. And when we looked for non-profit books on leadership, we found one for christian leaders, one for jewish leaders, one for museum directors but not one for leaders who who work in any number of health, the environment, education. So we really trying to get a broad sample of missions on dh and segments? Okay, so you thought through this project we did, you know, this is not just slapdash. No. Okay, throwing together. All right, so the book is worthwhile. All right? Make sure we got the brightest minds were going to talking for an hour. I don’t want to be talking about advice from lackluster, you know, lackluster leaders. We we wouldn’t really wouldn’t dream. I don’t have any poor performers. No, no, no, no. Okay. Okay. Um, now you you mentioned before we went on air. You’re back in your neighbourhood. This is the west seventies. Very comfortable to you. Yes. Yes. I love for fifteen years. A life experiences, right? Yes. Within a few blocks. Yes. Yes. Like a trip down memory lane. All right. You said you said married, you say born know you weren’t born here? No. Married? No, no. Married. Oh, signore e i was single. And then i was married for the first. Time. And then i was divorced all within a few blocks of oil within a few blocks from here with studio in west seventy second street. Alright, cool. Any places? Look familiar. The bank on the corner chase bank that’s where you had to divide your accounts, it’s. Right. You gotta go in there and get them to separate your mind’s. A nice that’s, a that’s. A lovely memory. Okay. Any other? Any good places? Oh, there’s. Some wonderful shops on columbus avenue. Top shoes still here? Oh, yes. Here’s to shop. I used to shop it. Tip top there. Good. Good place to share. Next-gen shoe store. What are they? Are, by the way? Yes, i have a couple of shoes on the shoes of the boots i’m wearing today. The rain boots i’m wearing today. Tiptop shoes shoutout to them. All right. So that’s free free media for them. All right, let’s, go back to your book. So you break it down into like you have. You have a lot of interviews and you break it down into subjects. And then you and you and linda comment on, you know, like leadership and getting your house in order. And being persistent. It’s okay, so, uh, i was certainly going to give you a chance to talk about what what’s tops for you. Like what stands out for you, but i come first. Absolutely. Eyes your show. Thank you. Usually i have to say that, you know, i have to remind guests i appreciate you’re acknowledging that without prompting leadership. I like talking about that ship leadership section. Um, you get some advice from ah, a few people have been on the show. Actually, henry tim’s has has been on the show. I’m working on getting him back as he has a new book. You know it as new power. Yes. Because if i’m going to figure out what new power is, yes. And here how you can embrace it, own it. So we’re working on getting henry times, of course. He’s the i don’t know if it’s ceo whatever. Executive director of ninety second street y. So he says he wants you to build your your your your emotional intelligence as a part of leadership. Talk a little about being that humanists. Yeah. So? So you asked me what was what stood out for us or you said you were going to let me know about it. Comes if you if you can blend them together. That’s very talented. Right? So, in fact, the thing i don’t bother asking you later, the emotional intelligence of the leaders we spoke to was really, really striking tow us really striking. So and henry tim’s, i mean, almost to a person. And even if they admitted to not having been so emotionally intelligent when they were younger, they really, really focused on becoming that. And they clearly were they admitted when they were wrong, they were able to turn tragedy into something greater. They they were working on diversity, equity and inclusion, even if it was uncomfortable if they were white males, for example. Eso so they really they really exhibit kind of the into a great degree. The characteristics that you would want in a person you worked for. Yeah. Admitting you’re wrong. Yes. A bunch of people have touched on that. Yes, being having uncomfortable conversations. Ah, sharing with staff when you’re not confident in something. Yes. You know, thing you want to flush out about. Why that makes you a good leader. Well, i think it’s it makes you a good leader in the twenty first entry? I don’t think it probably did in the past when leadership was about command and control and right, so but but in the twenty first century where we’re now yeah, thiss current yeah, where information is so readily available to everyone. Ah, it’s really important to be honest and vulnerable with your staff because they’re they’re probably going to find out anyway, if you yeah, no, i’m sorry. I raised my she’s. So, like, i wanted to say the s o r scared her by raising my hand. Yeah. People think that vulnerability is a sign of weakness. I think it’s actually sign of strength. Yeah. It’s a sign of confidence that you are willing to be vulnerable in front of staff and audience. Whatever, right, but that’s because you’re a modern man. Thank you. All right. And that we got to go for a break. You believe that? All right, hold that thought were gonna come back to that. That immediate thought we’d take a break. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst. Of fund-raising insights. Tony’s guests are expert, really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com. Now, let’s, go back to vivian hoexter. All right, so what was the last thing you said? It was a very poignant sentence. You said that? I said you’re that’s because you’re a modern man. That was it. Yes. That’s. Right. That’s, right. Thank you for refreshing my recollection. Yes. Okay. We’ll come back to that point a few times. Um, yeah, no, but i think vulnerability is a very good sign of confidence and strong leadership. I mean, in front of an audience or your staff or whatever, you know, it’s. A sign of strength and confidence, i think. Right? Right. And i think so too. And so do i. The leaders in the book, i would say not everybody believes that, right? And in an hour analysis, this is one of the things that really is a sign of emotional intelligence and of being a great leader for the modern, for the modern non-profit and i would argue corporate era. Okay. Excellent. And self awareness, too, i guess. That’s all rats wrapped up. Really in every yes, right? Yes, i do. I do. Okay. Um, so we’ll see if it’s, uh, exploring there’s some, uh, there’s. Some thoughts. About exploring life and work you you make some points about be an explorer there there’s some advice in the book about not following the path that others follow right out of college, you know, follow your own path, but but you and linda also have some commentary on being an explorer in life and work. Yes, so i think a lot of a number of our leaders said you should really make sure that when you’re in your twenties, you get out of the environment in which you grew up and go somewhere else. So if you are not able to go overseas, go to another state. If you live in the north, go to the south if you live in the south, go to the north because the experience of living with and working in another culture really is a huge benefit to developing that self awareness, the cultural awareness that is so important to being a leader in the global economy. How does this help you? I’m not. I’m not opposed to the idea, although i’d rather see more people from the south coming north than me from the north going south, but i know how is this how this help me, um, expand my my leadership capacity. So when one of the traits of leadership is to be able to put yourself in the other shoes, at least i think so. And if you take it, if you take yourself out of the environment that you’re most comfortable in that you grew up in and put yourself elsewhere physically, right, you’re going to be with people, even in the u s if you move from the south to the north, who are different from you, who think differently dressed differently, have different pastimes, and certainly if you go abroad, you’re going to be in a completely other culture. So i worked for eight years for f s intercultural program, american field service school, yes, so so i have a really bias on this one. I’ll admit that i that i think that the people who are best able to deal with others and persuade them inspire them, lead them lead change with them are those who have really gotten out of their comfort zones when they were early in their careers and go on elsewhere to live in work so they know how that feels to be uncomfortable. So so that encouraging others to do it in your work let’s test something that we haven’t done. Let’s try something different. I wanted we’re gonna explore a program that we have done, etcetera. You know what? That vulnerable vulnerability. You know what that feels like? Yes, yes, because you’ve lived it correct. You live that incredible discomfort of being a stranger in a foreign land. Someone else who’s been a guest on this show that you, uh you profile on dh interview is are you finger? We love our yes, i do too. Ceo of do something dot or ge i’ll take over from nancy lublin. And then now now also, of course, they’ve spun off t m i and she’s isn’t she the ceo of tm? No, no she’s only do something you know. She’s ceo seo of cm ilsen ceo and chief old person. Old person. Okay. Okay of both. Yeah, so she she admonishes may be too strong. I don’t know. She encourages mentor ship finding a mentor. Yes, finding a mentor when you’re getting started and being a mentor when you’re in the ceo ranks or as you’re working your way up oppcoll what’s what’s the value to the leader let go because we’re looking at from leadership perspective what’s the value to mentoring the value is number one you’re reminded where you came from and if you’re supervising younger employees, which you almost certainly are that it helps you to be helping someone who’s trying to get a job somewhere, it helps you to remember what it was like mom or empathy on dh on it also, honestly, to be a mentor feels good. It’s it’s ah it’s a way of passing the torch not passing the torch. Exactly it’s a way of paying it forward, if you will. On really making sure that the next generation of leaders has the same has has the benefit of your wisdom while you’re still alive. Yeah, yeah. All right. How about for people who are younger, what’s the value of having a mentor. So it really? You know, parents often tell their kids what not to do because they did it, and we’re sorry to do it. So you have to be a little careful. I think because you want to help young people avoid some of the mistakes that you made when you were early in your career, recognizing that they’re going to have to make some themselves. You can’t prevent them from making some, but if you can point the way and if you can help them build their networks, which we all know mean, networks are just critic critical for growing up. So if you want, if you want to continue in your career, you need tohave ah, robust professional network. Yes, yes, and a strong and powerful mentor who has lots of relationships from having been in the field for a long time. And if that person is generous and willing to share some of those relationships with you and introduce you to people that’s, one of the greatest value used in mentor ship should you pursue a mentor? So now i’m looking at it from the person younger in there non-profit career who’s in your organization or no, you should really go outside it’s kind of hard to open up to somebody because they’d be senior to you, right? That’s? That seems a little counterproductive. Yeah, i think it. You really have. Tio. If you want an authentic mentor relationship, you have to look outside organization. Um, any what? Would you like to say now that now’s your chance now, it’s all you saw your chance, spotlight is on you. But leadership, anything you want to you want to add about leadership that i didn’t didn’t strike me? No, i think what i want to do is talk a little bit about what happened after we did the interviews, right? Because we had all of this material, right? And from having talked to nearly fifty people and there’s a fifty or nearly fifty, now you’re hitting on your head now is forty seven, but nearly fifty sounds, you know, more rounder, right? Yeah, i know, but originally we sent fifty no it’s, not fifty it’s forty six, forty seven, forty seven near severely restructure precision. Provoc absolutely, you read twenty one profiles in the book, which is which are excellent, and then you’ll get you’ll get quotes from an additional um however many eighteen, twenty, twenty, twenty eight people. Oh, that would be forty, maybe forty nine, twenty six people. All right, let’s. Keep it straight on non-profit radio. Yeah, absolutely. Don’t let the clothes confuse you. No. Nor the guest either. Okay, so the so we had all this material, this wonderful material, and we and we knew the book was about leadership because that’s what we set out, that the questions that we asked really were about leadership, but we thought, oh, go boy, the book has to be about something mohr than just leadership. And so what we discovered is that the book is really about the good news social change, it’s about the how to make lasting positive social change because many of the leaders we spoke with are actually doing that every day, making positive social change, often without a lot of fanfare, because it’s the non-profit sector and no one has the money, the advertising budget that a coca cola or pepsi has on dso. So we wanted to do a couple things. We wanted people to recognize that in a time when there’s lots of not so good stuff happening, that there actually is a lot of a lot of good stuff happening. We wanted more people to know about that good stuff. Ah, and we wanted people to be able tto learn from the steps that these leaders outlined for us that became the principles the seven principles that bracket the book. We wanted people to be able to learn from that to make change in their own communities, let you know. I mean, if if they’re working in their own communities, it could be their states, their countries. But the idea is that there’s practical knowledge to be gained here as well as sort of principals. And what have you? Yeah, no. And, you know, i like to details. I mean, that’s. Why? You know, like, you know, like, find a mentor. Yes. You mentor? Yes. No. Up your game in. Ah, in emotional intelligence, etcetera. Yeah. All right. Um, could we, uh i’d like to ah, talk about getting your house in order in your own organization, upto up to where it should be, right? Principle number two yeah, why don’t you? Why don’t you overviewing that on dh? Why it’s important to walk the walk? And and then, you know, i’ll ask you, i ask you something that stuck out for me chur so what? What our leaders told us and we really pretty much knew this already. So it was great to have all these leaders saying it is that if your organization is really functional and and a good place to work in all the dimensions of what that means, then it’s going to be much easier for you, for your organization to be innovative and to have employees who stay in the organization rather than move on so quickly. Eso you’ll get good, organise a, you’ll get good institutional memory and it’ll just be easier to make the change that that you wish to make. That to achieve your mission, it’ll be easier and more effective. Ah, so and again, you know, getting your own house in order, it means a lot of things, right? So we have a sort of a selective list. You could list many, many, many things that a leader should do to make sure that his or her house is in order. But some of them include, and this is this is kind of dahna a stereotype recruit talented, passionate employees. Ah, and then retain them. Ah, make sure you have a number two. Even if that person is not the obvious successor to you. Ah, those kinds of things, right. So in the kind of the human resource is sphere, right? We thought these were really, really important. Make sure that that you’re working on diversity, equity and inclusion. This is a ah something that all of our leaders are focused on on as a routine part of there. There there work it’s, not sam paine, no campaign for divers. So it’s just ongoing, always evolving it’s always part of their hiring and retaining. Yes, this is another thing that really struck us about about what the leaders were saying is that they had you had to start somewhere when if you’re working on diversity, equity and inclusion, and usually you had to start at the top, you know the ceo to be the one to be the catalyst for it. But then you you could never stop. Ah, you and you had to keep addressing it from different angles and different levels of the organization, and that was something of a surprise to us. One of the people suggest hiring people that are smarter than you and including for your board, and he says, i don’t remember who it is but he says everybody around him is smarter than him and again, including board again, you know, that’s that goes back to vulnerability. I mean, obviously these things overlap, but, you know, getting talented people who fill gaps, that of knowledge that you and the institution don’t have. Yes, it takes a lot of humility t be able to really do that, you know, everybody says, i have to say it, but it is much harder to do in practice. You really have to be vulnerable and humble to be able to admit that you don’t have all the skills and you certainly don’t have a lock on the intelligence. Ah, and that seems to be it seemed to us to us to be a theme you mentioned the hiring and terror this one i do know came from tara berry, ceo of national costume. Kartik latto court appointed special advocates, and it was interesting, very poignant that she herself was a foster child. I did some training for a casa in aa in albuquerque, new mexico, someplace many years ago. It’s, um, plan giving training. She likes the idea of having a siri’s of interviews to demonstrate a candidate’s commitment. We thought that was brilliant. You’re dragging them through? Yeah, yeah. You know, you keep showing up. If you have the patience for this you can tolerate. Our work? Yes, yes. I thought that was really, really interesting. It’s, part of the hyre slowly fire quickly, right? But it takes hyre slowly to a whole new level right where that you should you keep creating excuses for the person to come back? Of course, it’s of course you planned it out, right? But they come and they talk to one person and then they come back and they get a tour, and then they come back and they talked to another person. Then they come back and talk to a volunteer. Or or and and the idea is that if they and particularly the young person, that if they have the patients to stay with you through a process that takes a couple of months, right? Oh, interesting. Yeah, there are a few weeks a few months that that this that this could really weed out some of the young people who just need a job and don’t have any interest in your mission and really have no interest in the nonprofit sector. They’ll just they’ll just drop it that i can’t tolerate that right’s takes too long. Okay, um, somebody talks about it. May have been you and linda autonomy in decision making, giving employees autonomy authority to make decisions. So so that’s another s o u you know, now you’ve got the talented, passionate employees right? And you want to keep them on. One of the best ways to keep them is to give them autonomy and shale. Pollack how sarrantonio who runs the bank street college of education was most articulate. I thought about this idea he talks about having been a a noces stint principal in a high school in queens doesn’t really matter on dh his boss was really, really clear with him about where they were meeting point a, where they want, where he wanted him to get to meeting point b, but giving him great latitude and how to get from point a to point b with point b again being very clearly defined with measurable, with metrics and and so on. And i think if you think about bright people, they tend not all of them, but they tend to want to try things they don’t want to be told what to do all the time. They really want to have the space to make decisions themselves and this. Is what this is, what it is is meant by having having autonomy in this in this sense and it’s a really again it’s really, really great thing to aspire to it’s harder to do. Yeah, well, you have to have a lot of faith in the people you have input you have hired, you have to be willing to delegate and give degrees of freedom, not micromanage, right and and accept failure because everybody’s not going to make it to point b, you know, they’re gonna get derailed sometimes all those things, i mean, those right, those air all difficult, but but you tell me essential for growth rate for the organisation, growth on individuals? Absolutely, and the idea being that you’re not it’s, not like you’re not going to check in with them between points and be right, you know, so that if things were really going awry, you’re going to know it pretty early on. But, yes, that’s the idea is that autonomy is a critical part of growing up azaz, an employee and executive it’s it’s, tom tom dent, a ceo of hugh mentum who says, take work seriously, not yourself, right? More humility, more vulnerability. Well, yes. And allowing laughter. Oh, hi. Laughter not around workplace. Yeah, laughter in the workplace on dh maybe not just laughter around you, but sometimes laughter at you. You know, you make a a silly statement or, you know, think about it really takes a lot of emotional intelligence to be able to allow people to laugh with you slash at you. It’s. Hard to imagine that in an office. Well, i i’ve actually been in on the rail. Where? It’s, why, it’s? Why i’m not an employee anymore? Maybe i put the wrong places. I would be a terrible employee now i’m so autonomous i would shoot myself in the interview just now. Neo-sage but, yeah, no, i i’m thinking of the two ceos. Yeah, there was no yeah, now they would not have tolerated that, but those were the nineties to, um yeah, i mean, just yeah, don’t just just just be personable. I mean, just be a person nobody expects in this culture. We don’t we don’t expect perfection from our from our leaders know well, maybe some people do, but what we’re arguing that you that you don’t need to and that you shouldn’t okay? Okay, let’s, take a let’s. Take another break. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit. Radio. Twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti. Now time for tony take, too, but we’re going to do this. We don’t work this awkward drop in right now. I’m a safe too. Looked our founder of good link, goodling dot com non-profits connect with businesses that advanced their missions. When i want the best connections i listen to non-profit radio. Thank you. Receive on. I want to give a shout out tio good link it’s with with a c good link dot com it’s a new marketplace where non-profits meet vendor’s no cost to you as the non-profit it’s. Like a bridge to the products and services you need it’s new and i’m trying to help them get started. So see what you think about that good link dot com. Check them out on my tony. Stay too is my number one takeaway from non-profit technology conference, which was two weeks ago in new orleans. Because if i tell you what the number one takeaway is on you not watch the video, which, as all videos are, is that tony martignetti dahna at least all the worthwhile ones. At twenty martignetti dot com, we captured thirty interviews over the two and a half days sixty guests on dh there’s one top thing that hit me. Vivian actually touched on it. But that is all i am permitted to say at this time. Otherwise you’re not gonna go to tony martignetti dot com and watch the video for my number one takeaway from these thirty interviews that i did, it involves a ceo and that’s as far as i’m willing to go. All right, check out the video. Tony martignetti dot com. We got to live with their love. This is the time. Well, it comes whenever i want it’s. Like springstead says she acknowledged without without prompting it’s. My show let’s. See where we going? Staten island, new york starting local staten island, new york shoutout, new york, new york. Multiple new york. But i live in new york city. Manhattan, new york, new york. Multiple staten island. Shut out to you, rosedale, new york. Rosedale is queens, right? And fresh matter was new york. Also queens. Awesome. And beverly beverly. My guest. Beverly. Um, i guess vivian mentioned queens. You you mentioned queens. You have any of you have any friends or family in rosedale? Fresh meadows? I’d you know? Okay, well, they’re listening. Shut out. Live listen, love teo cleans and going a little further west a little bit. We’ve got salt lake city so, like city, utah, slc and going up north from here we got somerville, mass. Um and then going abroad, we’ve got let’s cross the border further north woodbridge, ontario live listener love to you and going further east would be looks like munich. Germany is next. Guten ta ge to germany and then continuing our voyage east. We have tuck out suki, japan could each awhile talk itsuki live ilsen love to you, couldn’t you and ah, and then well, maybe i went too far east cause then we got to come back middle east. We got tehran, iran and then we go up north moscow, russia. I’m not sure moscow’s been with us live listener love to you moscow um and those are our live listeners so far. Oh, no. I missed tampa, florida. We should’ve gone south. Tampa live. Listen, i’d love to you. And then, of course, we got to the podcast pleasantries. Because that’s, where the over twelve thousand people are listening on, whatever device, whatever time pleasantries to you, i’m very, very grateful that you are podcast listeners are vast? Majority catch us on itunes and then it goes way down like that’s like eighty nine percent of something let’s on itunes and then number two is stitcher, like eight percent or something vast difference between one and two, and then lots of smaller podcast platforms were on pod bay player pod player. Okay, however, you’re getting us pleasantries to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country, grateful that your station has us on their roster wherever, whatever day our part we’re in, i’m grateful to them and i’m grateful to you listening on terrestrial am fm radio never let am fm die it’s so personal i love am fm. I use that as a model for the show. There’s a couple of favorite shows that i used to listen to that i aspire to sound like hyre. Yes, i love am fm radio. Affections to the affiliate listeners. Thank you, vivian hoexter for obliging me while i do that. Thank everybody. Vivian. Of course. Co author of the book with linda hartley. Big impact there are consultancy is h two growth strategies. Dot com. Yeah. So i have someone i want to ask you about. I think you blew it the company name age to grow. It should be a tsh to grow. You should stop hte and then you get the water. You don’t get the h two girl, i get the h two hoexter and hartley, i get that it’s to grow, we should be h to grow and then we should feed your roots. We water your leaves. I don’t you know you could teach to grow. Oh, wow. Well, we’ll have to left looking taken should be h to grow. Yeah, you’d be surprised by how difficult it is. Or maybe you wouldn’t be to get earl that’s not taken twenty martignetti dot com was not teo wasn’t is not very popular. Now i got to compete with the martignetti liquor dynasty up in the boston massachusetts era. You said you that you told me earlier you vacation in cape cod. God, do you know the martignetti liquor dynasty? A liquor stores, maybe? All right, there, there, up there, you know, they’re they’re they’re supermarkets of liquor, maybe. Or maybe our listeners. A lot of the settlers in somerville, mass they know them, but these air supermarkets, not just little corner stores, and but i got tony martignetti dot com. I don’t know. Maybe they don’t have any tony’s. I don’t know. I couldn’t get martignetti dot com. They have that liquor barons. Okay, um, it was also like going, oh, gilda’s club. Yeah, the red doors? Yes. You were ceo of guilt for years. I wass and it’s a wonderful organization. It’s, now part of the wellness community, emerged with the wellness community after i left at the time, we had maybe drive it into the ground, did it, and then that’s where they murdered. No, no, no, no. Don’t do that. Okay. There there were a million inference. You made the inference available. I want to say i wanted to feel. Yeah, okay, go for it. Okay, so there were about thirty guilders clubs throughout north america, and i have to visit everyone on dh. We inherited an organization where thie founder and principal funder was was beginning to not want to be the sole supporter of the organisation any longer. Okay? And so we had to build the board, and i have a board that would really contribute and fundraisers. Significant amount. And we weigh doubled the revenue. In the time i was there, we developed. Yeah, it was. It was a good it’s. A wonderful organization, you know? It provides emotional and social support for people with cancer, their families and friends. Yes, families and friends, too. I thought it was just for the cancer patient survivor now not true, okay. Let’s. See, what would you like to talk about? I have other topics are good. But what strikes you about all these forty seven interviews? What? What moves you the most? It was inspiring to talk to these leaders. Inspiration, that’s. One of things i want to talk about. All right. It’s. Really, really inspiring. I mean, teo, be able, you know, we asked some fairly intimate questions like what’s the what’s, the worst and best thing that’s ever happened to you in your life. And what did you mean, what’s your definition of happiness? Yes. You know all these interviews? Face-to-face many of them were face-to-face virality of them were my phone. They tried to do for way tried to face-to-face, yes, but even even on the phone, right, these and and in many in most instances, in some instances, thie leaders had asked to see the questions beforehand, but in some instances they had not seen them, so they were really kind of we got there sort of their raw, fresh first response to some of these questions. And it really the way that many of them have turned tragedy into achievement into empathy into mission. It’s really? You mentioned tara peri at the national casa on dh. You know leon botstein at bard college, whose daughter was killed when she was seven years old, crossing the street to get to the bus. Aunt, he you know, that was early on in his time a bard. And he said, you know, his first impulse was to throw himself out the window. But what he did was he built, barred into really a force to be reckoned with, and and highly the innovative place, you know, they were the first to teach in. Prisons are among the first they were they haven’t this early college which they now have not just in the us, but around the world where kids can earn associate degrees in there four years of high school. Ah, and so is highly innovative place on dh he so i one has to believe right that he took that tragedy and sort of turned that took that anger, energy, whatever, and put it into building barred into the institution that is for children, i mean, well, not for chilled, but for for follow-up kottler college students. But you know that his child never got to be. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So so it’s really was really inspiring to to hear this tio here, that wisdom and to hear how willing these the leaders were to share with us. So that was another thing that surprised us. We knew a few of them before, but most of them we didn’t know and and we only had i would say, of all the people we asked, we only had one or two turn downs, and that was a very, you know, like high level incredibly busy ceo let’s not focus on the one or two. No, no, no, no. But my point is that they’re going to share, willing to share. And i think partially again because people don’t ask non-profit leaders a lot about their strategies and their insights. They ask corporate leaders right? Not non-profit leaders, so to be able to talk about what was important to them and how they’d gotten to where they are and what they see for the future was really, really felt good to them. Ah, and and we’re hopeful that the people who read the book will want to learn more about some of these organizations and possibly support them. At least let it certainly learned and get inspired by the book. Get the book for pete’s sake. It sze called big impact. Um, just get the thing, you know, we can’t we can’t cover it all in an hour. Um, now no, she she endorses. No, certainly not persistence. Another. Another topic you got you to talk about? Um, somebody says somebody says, oh, this is evan wolfson, president of freedom to marry. You cannot win every battle but lose forward. What you talking about? What he’s saying for? So for example, so freedom to marry was one of the key organizations in winning legalization of gay marriage equality. And evan worked on this for thirty two years from the time he wrote his law school thesis about it. And i have to say, he evan is brilliant on dh. He described to us some of the strategies that freedom to marry and its coalition used to win gay marriage. And when he talks about losing forward, want an example of that is going to the south and having and having activity campaigns in the south, even though he knew they knew it would be much more difficulty to get people in the south to really before gay marriage. But they knew they had to engage with the people in the south. They had to engage all over the country. Ah. And the same is true. You know, in certain cultures, arm or conservative, like the latino culture on they engage. They had they had campaigns with latinos. They had campaigns with african americans on dh. They just kept pushing forward, even though again, they knew that they weren’t going to win. Everybody’s. They were going to win all hearts and minds. Right on lee only enough to make it happen. So there’s the inspiration when he’s, he worked on this for over thirty years with his law school thesis. Yes. Excuse me. And, you know, there’s a there’s a someone who’s been on the show. Paul low, big wrote a book called the impossible will take a little while. You know, you have to stay with you. Somebody, someone of one of the people you you interview says that a profound change takes time. Yeah, that might have been you and linda said that a profound change takes time. But, you know, that’s part of the inspiration mean that to me, that which feeding that is the the vision that the leader brings to the organization and and the incremental steps toward that vision, whether it’s eliminating poverty, you know, in in metropolitan boston, you know, whatever it is that commitment to vision and then and bringing people together, who so loved, who support that vision and are willing to work at it for thirty years on dh, celebrate the small victories, right? And then really be good at doing that celebrate the small victories and making sure that your people are taking care of themselves so that they don’t get burnt out life balance. Yeah, one of your i think it’s, i have a bill. Bill uhlfelder yes, talks about life balance and says, if you’re if you’re waiting to get it kind of connected your family over vacations and sabbaticals, you know you’re you’re losing your family. Yes, balance, right? Yes. Is essential for persistence. Well, it is. It is. So this is one where our leaders were sort of all over the map. Okay? Most of them were striving for work. Life balance, right? Most of them. And then a few were unapologetically workaholic. And one said there’s. No such thing as work-life balance there’s. Just life and work is a part of it. That was larry kramer at the william and flora hewlett foundation. Life is a part of it. All right. That’s fair. That’s? Yes. That’s. A decent balance, right? I objective. Yes. Yeah. I think i think larry works pretty hard. Okay. Well, yeah. Um, it’s something it’s a life practice? Absolutely. I’m i’m sort of joking. Yes, way. We believe that work life balance is essential, particularly when you’re working on seemingly intractable problems that will take a while to solve. Impossible will take a little while. All right, we got a car last break. Okay. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests. Check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark. Yeah, insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff. They need something which is simple and fast. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. All right, now, let’s, go back to vivian hoexter. Yeah, i get it animated and then bring it back down. What a talent on what a talent unfortunate that one took prompting. Um, okay, so yes, we’re striving for balance. It’s a life’s practice. Don’t give it up. I mean, don’tjust. Don’t just surrender and say my family’s got a week. No, i loved ones have to wait. My friends, even friends go to your go to college reunion now and then high school reunion now and then connect. Yes. Okay. Anything what you want say that? Yes, like you’re exhausted. It it’s just essential, right? It’s, it’s essential. But both linda and i believe strongly in it. I was just at a college reunion last weekend. Pittsburgh, carnegie mellon ah, opportunity. Bunch of guys got together so it’s almost like it’s on my mind and plus, i’m always admonishing, i probably am. I’m not just encouraging. I probably i’m admonishing that’s. I think that’s the right word listeners through the show and videos like help sometimes and wag my finger in a video. Take time for yourself. You know, if you want to give your in e-giving profession if you want to give effectively, i think you have to take yes. And that taking is being selfish and taking time yourself and your family and sometimes even just for yourself, like quiet solitude kind of time if you want to give, i believe you have to take yes, yes. And all too often i think in non-profits the feeling there’s a grateful even feeling of intensity about having to accomplish the mission so it’s hard to do that to take the time that is essential you got and you got to make the time, right? Yeah. Zach’s going to find it? I can never find the time. Yeah, well, time is not going to tap you on the shoulder and say, here i am you found me. You gotta affirmatively make the time. Yes, yes. Don’t keep trying to find it it’s not going it’s not going to make itself apparent to, you know, and it will be uncomfortable at first to take the time. You know things right the first time. You may be the first half dozen time abandoning ship. Yeah. How we’re gonna get along without? Yeah, well, you need to have the humility to recognize that they can write. All right, see how this all fits together. Just get the book for god’s sake. It so it all fits together. Um, okay. You mentioned larry kramer, hewlett foundation. Did you yet has it? He says relationships matter in this in this persistence and drive toward mission, you know, relationships talk about relationships. So what larry is saying, it actually is that for him life is all about relationships, it’s more than just the mission, right? You know, it is the mission, but to him it’s, it’s, that’s what that’s, what it’s about? And i think it’s particularly important in the nonprofit world because so many of the missions of the organizations that we work in our have social missions right there, they’re about either caring for people are teaching people to care for themselves or and so it’s really, really important to be able to relate well to people because there’s also the fact that in the nonprofit sector you can’t play p pent can’t pay people top dollar. Ah, and so there have to be there have to be other benefits toe working inside a non-profit and one of those is having caring relationships with the people you work with and also organizational relationships. Yes, partnering type of yes, flush out that level because these days, right? So number one funders like partnerships, increasingly and, you know, we have lots and lots of non-profits in this country, over a million of them, and maybe a few too many on the a lot of the missions of those organizations are complimentary on dh, so i think it’s really incumbent on organizations to make strategic partnerships a priority. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s critical. Not on ly because funding is limited because funders like partnerships, but because you get more done, yeah, for less money. Yeah. There’s a synergy. Yes, we’ve had guests on talking about how to find the right partners. Get your board buy-in the board, the board process of formal partnerships and things. Yes. All right, so explore those, you know, think about those. So i’m going to turn back to you let’s talk about something that interests you in the book that we haven’t talked about yet. Great, you know, and it gets all your book, she’s she’s, i feel i feel bad for the guests who bring notes or what? She’s in that vivian doesn’t know what she’s been clutching her book, but they never get a chance to read the notes they bring them. They feel security. I tell them they won’t have time. They hold the notes anyway, and then they never get a chance to look at them. Because, you know, because we’re having a conversation, so would you. Would you find you? You peruse your table of contents? Yes, i did. I did. So i i want to go back to evan wolfson because i i really think that if you read the interview with levon welchlin mary-jo yes, that that interview is kind of a lesson in how to make social change. Evan is the on ly one of the forty seven leaders who has accomplished his mission completely and disbanded his organization. That’s that’s telling that never happens. That’s what he’s done usually organizations expand to find a new mission. So evan now is a high level advisor to other countries around the world that where people are trying to get gay marriage legalized. And he also consults to some. I think now he’s consulting to immigration organizations in this country to try to help them. But he no longer has an organisation himself. And i think his the the understanding how freedom to marry and its coalitions achieved the mission is it’s really instructive it’s really a it’s like a primer in how to make positive social change? Because he did, he did all of it. They got he got really clear about the goal. That’s one of the principles and learned howto articulated persuasively and specifically at a certain point, learned that if you made it about the legal aspect of of gay marriage in the public eye, it was not going to be as effective as if you talked about giving people make having people be ableto love who they wanted to love. At a certain point in the campaign, they really switched the way they talked about gay marriage, and that was really critical to it becoming possible. And then another principle is build. So you have to campaign on many fronts you haven’t. Then you have to build broad based coalition let’s. Talk about the many fronts. That’s a section of the book, so the the idea is that you and really this is sort of the partnership idea is part of part of this that you can’t do it alone and that if you’re not striving to influence the private sector and government, which are the two dominant sectors in our economy, then you’re really not going to make lasting social change, and so you have to work with those sectors. You have to learn how to talk to those sectors on dh, on dh you have to be working on lots of different levels all at once, because otherwise it’s not going to happen on and that includes working with faith based organizations, which some people, some organizations know how to do, and others don’t. But and again, leon botstein at bard makes a really, really interesting point about this. He says that somehow a lot of us, particularly on the coast, i guess, have sort of decided that faith based organizations are not important any more that, you know, because of the increasing secularization of our society, that we don’t need to worry about them. But the truth is that they’re very particularly in the middle of the country, so that maybe in some parts of a very powerful, in vast parts of right, very, very powerful on dh. We. And if you really want to make social change in your community, you’re going to have to work with those organizations because they’re often the ones that are already working on it, right? Yeah. They have, they have the soup kitchen, they have the homeless shelter, you know, they’re they’re already actively engaged in making change or taking care of the people in their communities. And so you really have to reach out to them. And they’re in the community there. Yes, there the communities. They know the local leaders, whether they’re the official leaders of the unofficial leaders, if you want to work in yeah, you want make real change and work in the grassroots. You need to know who the unofficial leaders are direct in the community. Yes. And your faith based the metoo the organization’s know that stuff? Yes, there, there they’ve been. They’ve been there for decades and generations. Yes. Okay, um yeah. So you ah here’s, sort of where we just have a couple minutes left together. What what struck you about some of the questions? You got answers. You got to the question. Ah, you asked everybody. How do you define happiness? So, you know, it’s, a that’s, a highly personal question, right in the sense, in the sense that it’s different for for everyone and some of our leaders, because their lives are so frenetic, all they want is peace and quiet to them. That’s happiness, but that’s rygel yeah, yeah on dh then, for some it’s being with their families and, you know, spending time with the people they love. Ah, and, you know, interestingly, when we had not a lot of them said, you know, happiness is sitting at my desk for twelve hours a day for a lot of money or a lot of no, no, that not this group, not this, you know, and again that’s part of the emotional intelligence, right isn’t understanding what really makes life worth living, which is relationships and meaningful work and all of those things. Six okay, um, let’s see, what do you love about the work you’re doing? Well, i’ve always been mission driven, tonia, you know, i got an mba and i tried to work in the corporate world, but i wasn’t happy and lord and taylor, i was with the fire and the fire lord, and i was that i was at best foods is a problem manager didn’t work no, no. And so what really makes me happy is is helping to make positive change in the world. I mean, that’s and helping the underdog. I’ve always wanted to help the underdog leave it there. All right, you she’s vivian hoexter get the book for god’s sake. It’s called big impact insights and strategies from america’s big impact inside insights and stories who wrote strategies? I needed an intern to blame for this insights and stories from america’s non-profit leaders. If i had an intern, they’d be fired, if any more to recommend anybody. Let me know next week the first release of the ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference interviews thirty of them coming and next week is may already. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio weather cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com until those credit card payment processing, you’re passive long term revenue stream tony dot mm slash tony tell us. Our creative producer, is claire meyerhoff. Family roots is a line producer. Thie shows social media is by susan chavez. Our music is by scott stein of brooklyn. With me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving nothing. Cubine hi, i am dr tranquility of dr tranquility pr, successfully meeting the media needs of the wellness community as an expert myself for major mainstream media, radio, tv and french magazines. I now have. 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