This set of Nonprofit Radio videos from the 2015 Nonprofit Technology Conference is focused on NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network’s, primary work: tech for nonprofits.
The second set of Nonprofit Radio video interviews from #15NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network. Including distance collaboration, the cloud, Beth Kanter and Ritu Sharma.
Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio video interviews from the 2015 Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network. These are the first of 25 #15NTC videos, on YouTube at realtonymartignetti.
- NTEN Deserves Your Attention featuring Amy Sample Ward
- Best Video Storytelling with Yasmin Nguyen & Sheri Chaney Jones
- Keep Your Site Current After Launch, guests Farra Trompeter & Kira Marchenese
- When Technology Isn’t Your Real Problem, with Tracy Kronzak, Robert Weiner, Marc Baizman & Dahna Goldstein
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Jared Schwartz: UX Secrets Revealed
User Experience (UX) is all the stuff visitors see on your site and how they navigate through it. What are the secrets to strategy and design so people enjoy engaging with your site and find the content they want? Jared Schwartz is senior consultant at Beaconfire Consulting. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference (NTC) 2014.)
Peter Campbell: Better Tech RFPs
Peter Campbell has strategies to make your software and service requests for proposals smarter, so you build better relationships with vendors and get what you need at the right price. Peter is chief information officer of Legal Services Corporation. (Also recorded at NTC.)
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of relapsing polly con dryness if i learned that you had missed today’s show you ex secrets revealed you ex user experience is all the stuff that visitors see on your site and how they navigate through it. What are the secrets to strategy and design so people enjoy engaging with your sight and find the content they want. Jared schwartz is senior consultant at beaconfire consulting and better r f p’s. Peter campbell has strategies to make your software and service requests for proposals or, if he’s smarter, so you build better relationships with vendors and get what you need at the right price. Peter’s, chief information officer for legal services corporation both of those interviews are from auntie si non-profit technology conference on tony’s take two something to tuck away for twenty fifteen, responsive by generosity, siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks here’s. The first ntcdinosaur view with jared schwartz on user experience. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc fourteen. The non-profit technology conference we’re outside, we’re in washington, d c at the marriott wardman park hotel. And with me is jared schwartz he’s, senior consultant at beaconfire consulting, and his workshop topic with the other some other panelists is top five u x rated secrets revealed. Jerry swartz welcome to the show. Thanks that’s. A pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. Thank you for taking time on a busy conference day. You ex let’s make sure everybody starts at the at the same level. What is you, x or user experience? What? Music’s? So you exes user experience. So that’s all i’m sorry, i already i already revealed you gave the cat. Yeah. That’s, that’s that’s number one of five. You’ve gotta come with four more secrets. Yes. Oh, you exit is the user experience. And a lot of what that is is a lot of the front and pieces of these web applications. It’s the when the user interacts with the computer. Whether it’s with the website, whether they’re the product of an application, it is the experience that they’re having that is guiding them to achieve a certain goal. Um, and so the goals of you, except to make sure that that is optimized for the user so that they can achieve their goals as quickly and efficiently as possible. And then so there is a lot of what falls under the u ex umbrella, such as user testing, focus groups that there’s a lot of like pieces of u ex butler. The heart of it is making sure that when you want someone to do a thing, they get that done as official as they can. So first thing we need to know is, what do we want people to do? And that could change by a week to week, right? Month to month? Yeah, i mean, so a lot of what you ex starts with this sort of one of the goals and the goals for your application for you is the organization of the company. But then also the users goals were they coming here to accomplish, and that also ties into audiences. So a big part of user experience is who are your users? And so we’re talking about demographic data, but also, you know, a lot about what are they trying to accomplish? What other internet habits? So ah lot of our session, one of the other panelists is talking a lot about users and audience and having empathy for who they are and what they want to do. I’m trying to put yourself sort of in their shoes, they are coming here to do a certain thing. It may not be exactly what you want them to accomplish, but you need to think about what they would do and lead them down, that pathway, what they want to do, but it also has to be coordinated with what you want them to do. Absolutely if you’re in the midst of ah campaign for for gathering emails or a campaign for fund-raising or, you know, whatever, yes, i’m so ah lot of what we do it beaconfire and some of our initial work with our clients is to sort of figure out these audiences and then their goals and your goals and how that thai house that matches up to each other, it doesn’t always jive oneto one sometimes it’s close, sometimes related, but you know, if the goal is is email conversion, you don’t just want it’s not just simple, to put an email sign a page. On your on your home page because they may not be there yet, and they’re not coming to your website yet to give you an e mail address. They’re coming for another reason you wantto figure out what they’re trying to accomplish. I think of what is the pathway that would lead them down the road to okay, they’ve gotten what they’ve wanted the next step would be now how do we lead them to where we want them to go? And so it’s zoho trying a lot of what we always start with his understand your audience, and they’re prioritized them and then understand try to match up your goals with their goals and that’s that’s a really key to making sure that you’re gonna have successful application if you just put your goals first there, you’re not going to get there don’t care. Yeah, so start with them and then try to lead them to where you want them to go. And i think the email conversion is a very good example. Putting on a light box on your home page may not be appropriate because your point people haven’t come for that purpose on lex out of the light box, maybe they’ll stay for what they wanted to achieve, or maybe they won’t. But either way, at least one of you is unsatisfied and that’s you because you bombarded them with the email purpose before they were ready. Essentially, absolutely. And i think you have anything you haven’t sold them. Why also you’ve got to make the case for someone to give it their email address. It means you’re going to be invading their personal space potentially several times a day. You need to make the case for why they want that space invaded. And so, you know, a lot of work just by putting a female sign a box and say join our list great isn’t really going to actually convince somebody that i should do that. I should get more email from you, so it’s make the case with content that you have made the case that the organization who you are, that they see themselves and your community, your community is them, and then when they feel that connection there, then say, join our email list to get daily updates during our email list to get job postings that that is a much telling. Them what they’re going to get that is the benefit to them is much better than just opening up with join our list because that’s just that’s just serving your own purposes and not theirs and our audience is small and midsize non-profit so ninety percent of cases we’re going to talk about the organization’s website you had mentioned aps ahs a possibility, but we’re probably talking about their their their website and that’s most of our clients as well, you know, it’s, a u x there’s a it breeds into, you know, the applications you carry around with you, i mean that the cars you drive, i mean there’s there’s user experience toe actual physical products that chairs you sit in this user experience by but really the most most of our clients are also medium to large non-profits and so they’re mostly it’s mostly, you know, web sites as well some web specific applications, so not just like organizational website by the website that does a thing and then occasionally in tow, like abs or things like that. Okay, now you’re part of the panel was the psychology of users correct and what’s going on literally what’s going on physically in their brains as their coursing through your site. Yes. So, i mean that this is sort of, you know, i do a lot of us work, and then my hobby miree of interest is a lot of this pop psychology and okay, you know what is making the web sites are the most successful. So successful. Why are people going there? You know, tens twenties, hundreds of times a day? What are they tapping into the underlying human psychology? You know what? What is firing off the dopamine? And you’re their brain that says, i need to go here. I’m getting a pleasure, but results. I’m gonna go there again and again and again and again. How do you hook them? How do you keep them coming back? What are the triggers that are being fired off on them now? Some of my my pat, my peace talks about there’s. An external internal triggers there’s. Probably a lot at this conference about external triggers. So that’s getting an email, that’s getting a text message, something saying go to my website internal trigger is instinctively on their own. They make a decision to do that. So an example. Would be facebook photo sharing when you take when you see, you know this amazing celebrity walking down the street, you take a picture of it. No one said facebook doesn’t say to you, go share that photo here. They don’t remind you you instinctively know to do that. The goal is to form a habit isto have the minimal amount of neurological activity required to get there and so it’s to try to find, you know organisms are not going to be facebook, but what is what is the thing that when someone wants to do something or find something they instinctively know to go to you and so try to identify what those internal triggers are because that’s mean that that’s what drives massive amounts of traffic? And how did you get get interesting that you said that you said it’s a hobby? I get into the psychology of it. So i mean, i’ve been doing, you know, sort of web application development for the older than i look from the beginning, the beginning of the internet and he looks about for listening. She looks about thirty a lot to be forty and northern. Thirty. Okay, so and i’ve been doing this for about twenty years, and i just, you know, it always sort of fascinated me, you know? Why does someone do what they do? Why are these things so successful? There’s millions and millions of web site, you know, i think i heard that the top thirty websites account falik ninety some ninety five percent of traffic and it’s insane, the food that that dominate the space. And so what are they doing differently? And you could start to see the patterns of the understanding of their words and it’s, not reward wasn’t giving you a t shirt or a sticker it’s the rewards of, like, stroking your ego, making you recognize the community. This, like, the sense of the hunt is when i talk about so, like reddit and countries that you want to keep looking for, what may be that you know, that next great things going to be on the next page, i can’t leave, i got five more things, and so they’re all tapping into this, like, you know, that this hundreds and fifty tens of thousands of years of human psychology and leveraging that, you know, make their website successful interesting. Okay, so you you mentioned dopamine, there are there are physical changes happening in our brain as we’re going through. Ah, website? Yeah, and then this actually was just that south by southwest. And i saw a really fascinating panel on don’t know the name i can’t without my head. Unfortunately, it was fantastic. I love to give him credit, but it was on the neural, the neurological effects that happened on the successful websites on so they were actually, like, scanning people’s brains they were interacting with. And it was really fascinating to see that, like, its firing off the same, like pleasure centers. When you, for example, what would you do? Something good. And you want to share that? And then people like it. And so having someone like that, you did something good. Just fires off the same pleasure center as anna’s. Mother sex? Yeah, i mean, it’s, that sense of you know you. Yes. You want to do good things that you wanna be altruistic? Yes. You want to have an interesting life but it’s even more exciting when somebody you know acknowledges that likes it back to you. And so that’s include that’s. Why, facebook? Tapped into that very early and so that’s why the like button is so ubiquitous tower, what part of what it actually does that that reward is, you know, is this it is a super powerful thing in your brain that you don’t even know is happening, but it’s, you know, it keeps coming back because you want more, but you want more of it. You want more of it? I’ve read research that takes the talk about the first step that about how pleasure centers are activated when you do something positive and what i was reading about was making donation when you, uh, you know, the science was someone who makes it makes it a donation versus someone who doesn’t, and the pleasure centers are activated, but you’re going a step further and research that shows that when someone likes yes and and acknowledges and approves of your having done something beneficial, it is even more activity. And i think that greater pleasure and i think you see, a lot of that was like the peer-to-peer fund-raising stuff it’s spreading now because you can give ten dollars organization, you feel good about it, but once you do that, now you’re invested and it feels even better to get someone else to give arms, it feels even better toe, like have them know you care enough that you’re going to get them roped in. So i think that’s why a lot of peer-to-peer stuff that’s, why they’re trying to know share when you make this donation because they know that, like, you know, that’s, that’s a human ego thing that people want, they want to feel like they’re part of the cause and bigger than just a donor. I feel it, i think, just dahna simpler level when i find an article that i’ve read that i think someone else is going to like that. So i just forwarded to them from the time sight or send them the u r l n e mail and then i get something back says oh, yes, thanks. That was pretty cool, you know? Yeah, i was right. The person did like i liked it and they like to to feel good and is the opposite feeling that that sense when you send it out and nothing happens, you know, like that they think is that sense of like what i thought? For sure, you’d validate my my mind knowledge of who you are, my mother. I least deserve acknowledgment. At least say thank you, even if you didn’t think, well, just something okay? You’re listening to the talking alternative network. This’s. The same way we’re hosting part of my french new york city guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language? Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us, part of my french new york city. Every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping countries. People be better business people. Dahna talking. Hyre dahna okay, so let’s, let’s, look on the flip side, what happens when we’re in a site and we’re not finding what we want. You made the point that we come with with with our own goals in our own purpose, to go to a site, what what do we feel when when that frustration of cars and we’re not getting what we want, what were therefore, i think the first thing you’ll see is you’ll see luke users leave. I mean, you know, the internet loads so fast, there’s so many other options out there, you know, data analytics is a piece of you x as well, and i’m looking at like, the simplest thing is bounce rates, that is an example of you think they care because you’re in that organization, you deal with this every day, but if what they’re saying they don’t care about they’re going to bounce rate is how fast how many users leave the first pay, but about bounce rate is the percentage of people who, like, come to a page and then lead it, they don’t go anywhere else on so that so that, you know, they think that you’re gonna have the answer for them. They go there. You don’t have what they want. Boom! There were only one page deep there, one hand, even after one, too. Yeah, and that that is a really easy way to identify. Are you giving users pathways? Are they seeing themselves in your sight? Are they connecting with your brand at all? If your bouncers every high ah, what’s jai, is it possible to generalize what i hate putting numbers on things that are because it always depends, like in a one organizations bounce cerini complete different than another it’s i would you know, i would say, look at trends. So if you’re seeing that you know you’re going worse, they’re getting better. A lot of us is testing and so it’s to keep trying to you always want to try and try and try and then look at what the data’s telling you. And so if you’re making adjustments and the bouncer is going down, you’re doing good things. If you’ve if you’ve taken something off of your home page, if you redesigned it in a way that’s what you think it works and you see that change, i would look at trends trying. To always say, like, this is good, this is bad, you know, it is i find that sometimes unfairly for example, like open rate supplies. That’s what a good open percentage it depends on, you know, if you’re talking about a list it’s a small list of highly cultivated people or one hundred thousand like random strangers you just bought, you know, so it’s really hard to say what affair basically, okay, trends trends are valuable, too, and and now bounce treyz something that users confined in google analytics. It’s, one of the top analytics applied to your your your page, your sight, your sight and there there’s that’s when, like the first top things you can see, it’s very easy to find google analytics is very rich, very deep. They just come out with universal analytics, which takes it even richer and deeper. I’m very fortunate that i understand that at an emotional level i can kind of interpret with the number someone’s telling me the numbers say, and i work with people who understand this stuff in a very strong, deep technical levels, you know, i’m fortunate that this that i consent, that we have people who look at the data, you know, process that data because their data analysts and then it’s my job. Treyz okay, now that they’ve process that for me, like what’s the driving reasons of these, okay, but even though, you know, people were sort of amateur, google analytics bounced rates, the ones that know google smart, the ones they put upon that first page view that summary page, they know what they’re doing, but we’ll give you good answers. Okay, well, let’s, let’s see if there’s some advice that we can leave non-profits with we have ten minutes to stop, we got plenty time. Um, based on from your perspective, from the cycle of psychological perspective, what would you like to see? Non-profits maybe doing better? Smarter? I think one of the things that they tend to forget is that their users and themselves are different, that it’s very hard, you know, i worked non-profit space for a long, long time, it’s very hard not to step back from that bubble, right? I mean, you’re causes your there, you work for these organizations because you’re insanely passionate for them, that is your job. Everybody you work with is interested in it when you have this great idea for a campaign, of course, everybody would want to do it because you’re in that. And so i think the hardest thing to do is kind of step back and say, not me, but somebody who is a squishy middle, someone who not the converted, not the staff, somebody who we want to make the case for they’re not there yet, and a cz much as possible when you’re designing your sights. When you’re thinking of your imagery and what your imagery is saying, i think i see all the time. So taking advice, i see a lot of organization websites have large, beautiful imagery now, but they will put in that image whatever the latest news is and don’t realize that image is connecting your brand more than anything else. And so did you really think about what your imagery is saying thing with your confidence saying not to the converted, but to that people who you want to get to your so you have to take that that perspective of the person who’s? Not, as you said, not yet converted. Step outside your day today dafs site excitement of your work how do you get somebody as excited as you are because i have been part of lots of campaigns when i’ve been working non-profit space where we’re like this is going to explode, of course, who wouldn’t want to, like, share this on with all their social media friends i personally do, and then it doesn’t really explode, and i think a lot of that is because we just have you just not well, you’re not coming from their perspective, and so you need to think, okay, they’re not here yet. What do they want? How can i lead them to the point when then they’re fourth, fifth, sixth views visit now? They really care. But those first few visits or the is that making break time and they’re they’re not where you are. You need to really remind remember remember that? Okay. Is it important to know what sights are? Ah, referring to your to your own site? Yeah, i mean, where people are coming from there. I mean, i think that’s that’s always important to look at that. The number one thing to remember is google’s. Probably number one, bob. A lot of organizations spend time trying to put everything. Possible onto their home page because they think that’s how people are getting to their content because maybe that’s how they are, but truthfully, most people are coming to your content as an internal visitor. If you go to look up, you know, blue cheese, you’re going go to google type blue cheese, you’re not going to go to the cheese foundation and see if they have a navigation. It takes you to cheese colored block. Yeah, so i’m looking away. Other organizations where people come from is important. I think the most number one to remember is it’s probably google people on your home page come in because they want to know who you are so that’s probably a brand thing, but that most uses air hitting you first at an internal page and so that that email sign up just shouldn’t be on the home page. If there’s, that pathway should be accessible anywhere. People get to your content because they’re not going home page first, they’re not going to your navigation likely they’re doing a google search and coming into an internal piece of content, and so you still need to make that conversion case even three. Four levels down your cs. Okay. Excellent. Yeah, very good point people. Not they’re not doing it the way top down. They’re coming in the middle somewhere. That doesn’t know there’s a lot of what we have. Several u ex folks. There’s always big debates about navigation, the value of navigation. I’m on the stage. So i get to like you say my opinion versus the person i work with who tend to disagree. I think navigation is least second third tier navigation is this is somewhat overvalued. You know, i think taxonomy, i think having smart tags. I think having your content search engine optimize is really the best way to get content. And not just necessarily, like, do you have to think about things and strict categories of first level, second level, third level? Because people just don’t navigate the web that way anymore. That it’s it’s not that hub and spoke structure. Yes, or did they just jump around from from thing to thing? What more? What more can we say about the psychology? Other advice? Mom it’s. The other advice about the psychology. So, you know, understanding the rewards is a huge one. The other is that there’s a person and bj fog who i’ve read a fair amount of honest what’s called bogey bogey has the fog model and the but you can find online type in five model the core of it is that when the trigger goes off another internal external, the reward has to outweigh the effort to get there very right simple idea, but that’s that’s the core of successful websites, and so that rewarded, whether it’s a internal reward, whether it’s a hyre you know, i want to find things wherever that might be the level of effort they have to take to meet that reward. They’re going to make, like internal mental calibration essentially a cost benefit analysis essentially cost benefit analysis, and so that that level of effort has to be usually fairly frictionless because that reward is probably not as high as you think it is. So too, you know, to to keep that you try to make that as frequent as possible try to get people invested a lot of times. Why, you’ll see, you know, the most people don’t leave facebook for google plus was because they were heavily invested, their data was there their friends were there. So if you get people invested, it makes it easier for them to just to re engage because they’ve been through experience. They have already signed up. They have your data. So i think trying to kind of always balance that reward effort is really that’s. That’s that’s the challenge. What if we have to justify spending time and money on on our user experience? If we feel it’s lackluster and, uh, but we have to go to an executive director, maybe even to a board to justify this. We were sort of talking around the benefits, but let’s, i think that would make them explicit. Yeah, man, that that’s a fantastic question. Because one of the things that that comes up a lot, that is my best, you know, you’re great at it. We’re twenty minutes in and it’s the first good question. Okay. Ah, one of things that gets cut from a lot of our clients budgets is testing and user experience and things like that and it’s. Not because they don’t value it. It’s. Because it’s not as tangible, right? You have to have a design. The site has to be developed. It has. To function and so when they’re you know, non-profits have about budget restraint constraints, and so they do tend to say, okay, we’re not gonna have those audience focus groups, we’re not going to bring in users to test our wireframes to valley that we’ve done is right because we can still build it, it’ll still maybe be pretty little still, but we think it’s going to be and i can get by on less money, and so that is always a challenge. I think you will never regret spending money tohave a actual audience, our users actually interacting with your sight structure, interacting with your of the wireframes you set ups interacting with your prototype, giving you information ahead of time, you will never regret that information. I’ve never been a time when someone said that was useless like you always lie learned something when you actually get out of your own space and put in the hands of users back-up so it’s super super important and it often gets cut and it’s a challenge. I think one of the things is to try to make the case for, you know, when you’re inside under an organization that this way. We want this to be successful, that with with our users we need to hear from them. It also sometimes helps sell with the internal politics one why did you design it this way? Why did you put it here? If you have users informing that it gives you a little bit of protection, you can say we put it there because users are finding told us that’s where it goes were designed in this way because users test said that when we did the blue button, it didn’t perform as well as the red button. So back-up it’s not only hugely successful tow the product being a success. It’s hugely important that provoc buy-in success. It’s also can help with when it comes time to defend the decisions that you’ve made. It’s not because it’s just the three of you in a room who’s on the core team deciding this it’s because this is what our users have told us. So i it’s it’s a it’s. A big challenge because you see it, it does all it’s. One of the first things to go. Well, you know, we could probably get away without this user tests. We probably don’t have to bring in user focus groups. We know the answers ourselves and it’s, always surprising, there’s, a really interesting study where they asked people to sort of guess how many jelly beans are in a jar and, like a hundred people guessed, and no one got any closer than the average of everybody’s guesses. All right, nobody got any closer than the average ok, even though there was wildly low gas isn’t some wildly high guesses. The hearing from the larger community actually gave the smartest answer than even the expert jellybean kapin guests, so nobody did better than the average. So as much as you try to think like that, we could just get this exactly right on our own idea. It’s, you’re always going to do better to hear from a larger perspective, to hear from thoughts outside of your own it’s super valuable, okay, dahna. I want to ah admonish you live it on the show. We have jargon jail okay now, just for people who may not know what a wireframe is. Yeah, it was a few minutes ago, but i didn’t want interrupt you. Although used a lot of times i do it threw up, but you were i didn’t feel like interrupting you, but what’s a wireframe just eso a wireframe is in a nutshell, a website design without a design it’s the functional captures the general layout. It captures the functional specifications of what that piece of the website will do and how people do wireframe is very, quite a bit. But i guess you could think of it as if you were going to design a home page you would have at the top that there is a big maybe hero space, and there’ll be a couple sentences that would annotate, saying it is going to do this, it will rotate this way. It’s not designed it’s not actually drawn. It just sort of implies what it’s going to do. And so then then those wireframes go to designers who then design around that aunt? I don’t know we often. Tell our designers that design is not a coloring book, they’re meant to kind of interpret this, but it’s just sort of say, this is what the thing is supposed to do in generally how it’s supposed to look, and then it also feeds over to the developers. You, seo when i see this email sign up thing here that the wireframe tells them well, it means that when they sign up it’s going to put them into this also database, for example, so it’s the wireframe is these step before you start designing and before you developing is just a way to capture those requirements. Okay, put me in jail. That’s okay? You’re out to make prohibition comes easily. That’s okay, um, or parole should say welcomes you were in jail on parole comes after, um, let’s say, all right, so one, one final thing we can leave people with just throw to you, uh, about about user experience, you know? So i guess i’m one final thing about user experience. I would say, you know, we’re doing an exercise at the end of our session and it’s an audience exercise and the reason i want to do that. Is with a hammer home that think about who you’re trying to do this for. So the exercise that we’re going to do, i think it is a good example where we’re taking a really bad donation page so that, you know, we have one of our folks in our teams like this on the worst possible nation page, and then we’re going to tell the team, break up in small groups and say one of you is the audience the rest of you take five minutes interview that audience member about when they’ve had a good donation experience and who they are and what they’re trying to accomplish and then take notes on that, and then they’re going to be asked to then redesigned this with that audience member in mind takes five, ten minutes to do you know, i think it’s a really good, easy exercise, so when you’re saying, like, wow, this we want to do this thing, do it, and then think of an audience person have somebody played that role for five minutes and then redo it for that person you’ll make, you know, some nice improvement. So it’s a really low hanging way to kind of like just keep tweaking things for for different your audience and a way to see that adopt that outside perspective that we talked about earlier on we do that’s no, we’re consulting firm, we do that. We helped lead clients through that, but you can certainly do-it-yourself think any any organization can say, you know what? We were built this thing. Now we’re going to think of who’s going to visit there. John, you can play the role that person tell us about this from your perspective, and now we’ll tweak it and it’ll get a little bit better. Excellent. Thanks very much. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having my pleasure. Jarod schwartz is a senior consultant with beaconfire consultant. And thank you for being with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference generosity. Siri’s you know them? They host five k runs and walks. You probably. I’m guessing can’t generate enough runners to host your own event. And then, if you did, you’d have to deal with the permitting and the medals and the sound system and the starting finish line and the porta potties. That’s what generosity siri’s does they do? Porta potties? And all the other things that are involved in multi charity runs and walks where there are hundreds of people because each charity brings the participants that they can, and together they have hundreds talk to dave lind he’s the ceo, about becoming one of their charity partners. They have events in new jersey, miami, new york city and philadelphia coming up. Tell dave you’re from non-profit radio, please let him know that he’s a seven one, eight, five o six, nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com can you start planned e-giving in twenty fifteen? I know you’re in fourth quarter fund-raising right now, it’s not any more detailed then just something to tuck away in the back of your mind for next year. Planned giving is not complicated. You do not need special expertise. I’ll have more to say about it later, but that’s all for now. Just tuck it away for next year and that is tony’s. Take two for friday, seventeenth of october forty first show of this year here’s my interview with peter campbell from non-profit technology conference on better requests for proposals. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology. Conference ntc two thousand fourteen the hashtag is fourteen and tc we’re at the marriott hotel and wardman park washington d c my guest now is peter campbell. He is chief information officer for legal services corporation. Peter welcome, good to be here. It’s a pleasure. Thank you on your ah workshop topic is requests for proposals making our of piecework for non-profits and vendors. Peter campbell, what is the problem with our f p’s that non-profits do no, my take is so rps request proposals um, commonly used by organizations to gouge whether a vendor is going to be able to do their projects for them or whether the software they’re buying is going to meet their needs. But i don’t think it’s something that’s well understood non-profits i don’t think there are a lot of resource is for understanding how to write our appease, how to do that well, and as a result of that, a lot of the vendors in the sector really hate them to the point where i’ve sent our if he’s out to vendors who have refused to even open them, much less response. So part of the problem is non-profits i’m not going. To be getting the the quality and volume of of replies that they could be getting to their art piece because they’re writing them in a bad way. Well, he let me see how i see the issue say you need a new website, your non-profit you need your website um, how much that cost you so it cost fifteen thousand should it cost seventy five thousand? It cost one hundred fifty and if you spend one hundred fifty, are you getting a much better website than you would for fifteen or seventy five? And i think today the answer is you have no idea you could pay one hundred fifty and get a much worse website than me when you could get from somebody who’s very smart and doesn’t charge a lot. Um, so the non-profits goal is to gouge who should i hired to do this job for me, who will give me the most value for my money? And if you’re buying, say, a software system something that’s really well defined before you buy it, you can ask very tactical questions, get them answered that’s fine you khun do a request proposal has a list of i need this feature? I need this functionality i need to integrate with this. Get a good answer, but if you’re doing a website or you’re doing a sales force implementation or you’re doing a project that is much more open ended, um, using the form of our a p that you would use to buy a product doesn’t work very well. And i think what happens often this people use that form and send it to a consultant say beaconfire you were talking to earlier? Yeah, and the chances going into a web project that you know exactly how many hours it’s going to take to do that project and what type of effort’s going to be needed are very, very slim, right? So my argument is that our of peas are unimportant thing because when you go into a relationship with a vendor to do an expensive project, we’re talking one hundred thousand for an organ, it maybe makes three million, you know, bilich revenue. Um, you want to make a good investment in that relationship, you know, you don’t as someone to marry you on the first date, you get to know them first, you got to know. What? You’re compatible. You get to know if your needs are going to be mutually met, that type of thing. So we need to be more creative about how we do our fees in order to ensure that, and i think one of the problems is the non-profit i want the rp to tell them exactly how much they’re going to have to pay that’s what they’re focused on. Yeah, cause we need a new website, we need fifteen thousand pages. We need this color scheme. How much will you charge us to do that? And i think that that’s a question you really can’t ask and shouldn’t be asking. So when i do an r p for something like that, i recently won recently did one for a sales force ghisolf the r p est a few basic things i want to know if the vendors i was sending it to had the expertise i needed for my project, i had some particular aspects of my project that one vendor might do better than another say, integrating with databases in my organization, so i ask questions about that and asked him to give examples case studies when they done before, if they can send me pictures, website links and then i also have section, what are your standard rates for each role of consultant that would work? What i didn’t ask is how much will this project cost? I didn’t it’s a multi year project, i have no idea, and i just didn’t think that was fair question what i i was looking for and what i think i got was a vendor that had the expertise needed do my project that i felt my staff and i had a good report with that we’d be able to work well with, um and a good relationship and through the reference checks, assurances that they were very sensitive to non-profit budget needs that they could stretch the project out longer if the money wasn’t coming in to pay the bills, that type of thing. Do i know what the project’s gonna cost when it’s all done? I don’t do i know that this vendor is going to work with me? I’m not going to get in financial trouble on this project. I’m pretty reassured, you’re confident so my pushes the ar fi sessions say r f peace can be good. But we’re kind of being cruel to the vendors and frustrating the life out of andrews by sending them questions that can’t be answered. Ok, all right, so do we need to spend more time in planning on r f p? I think a lot of non-profits that’s sort of the mind set is, well, we need a vendor, and this is going to be a sizable project for us. Let’s, do an r f p, right and then and okay, it’s going to fall within your department. So you put together the questions we need to do more than we need better planning around the rof pieces that were part of the problem. So the r p is a piece of the process of evaluating purchasing a system. If you’re talking about software that needs to be in consultants and that type of project, the web sales for us, who are the, you know, fund-raising database of things that highly customized. Project that you’re going to need that help on there are few is a piece of it. Any organization going into a project like that should understand their business needs. Our sales were surprising. For example, before we’re doing the sales worse project, we’ve hired business process consultant’s help us fully understand what we’re doing today before we start trying to do it better. So so it is a piece of that process, and again, the rp we think about the rv is being the session a bunch of questions that we weren’t asked avenger, but just as important as part of the therapy that explains to the vendor what we’re trying to accomplish so that we’re helping the vendor understand the depth of the project and the scope of the project. You’re going to get better answers back. Yeah, it’s zoho learning process both ways. It’s a two way into yeah, okay, i think, yeah, i think that perspective is not really seen. Basically we ask questions, you come back and answer, and and the questions are not really that informative about what we’re trying to do. Yeah, this is really very timely, actually, for may i do play. Into giving fund-raising consulting. And just last night, when i got back to my room at the hotel, i had an email from someone who had been referred to me, and she asked me to give her a price quote for creating a plant giving program for our organization and i and i don’t really know about your organization. She said that, you know, a small number should get to give a number of donors, but i have no idea how they break down in terms of age. I don’t know whether they’ve ever attempted plans giving in the past and maybe it’s been unsuccessful or this is the first venture. What are their goals were planned e-giving of how deep do they want to go? Is this gonna have the most sophisticated programs? And or is it just gonna be maybe charitable bequests? Is that all we’re going to start? Stop there. So what i sent back was, can we plan a call before i give you a range and that’s actually what you said i need i need a range of costs. Teo, give to my board. I said, well, it’s kind of premature. I don’t don’t know. Enough about the organization, and so i need to learn more as the vendor and that’s what you’re suggesting? Yes. So i will say as the client and, you know, i work for a quasi government organization, and we have very appropriately bureaucratic process follow-up just explained legal services corporation plays what? Rolling? Oh, yes, i have a legal service corporation. We are the federally created five a onesie three non-profit that allocates federal funding to legal aid programs across the country. Ok, our tagline is america’s partner fecal justice, and i think people know legal aid, you know, legal aid in their community and in their cities. People know exactly what people get confused about is because we have so many cop shows telling us that everybody has the right to an attorney. They forget that that’s only in criminal cases. So if the bank is foreclosing on your home or you’re in a domestic abuse situation or children or being threatened, take it away and you can’t afford an attorney we’re trying to address that. Those are all civil. Yes is criminal and illegal. That’s what legal aid provides? Yes, legal aid gives the attorney to the people. Who are too poor to afford one? Our funding program has requirements on coffeecake income. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Alright. So legal services corporation is the primary funder of legal aid services throughout the country. Yes. Okay. Absolutely. Okay, please. Okay, so on our way to talk about, oh, learning and how i was giving you my example of how i need to learn more about the organization before i could. Yeah, there was a change of prices, but i want to add to that from my if i’m doing an rp process, i want to be very fair process. I don’t want to give one vendor advances another one might not have so i might agree to have a five minute phone call just outlying a little more of our situation, and i’ll have that same conversation with every vendor that i’m including in the process of but i generally don’t want to do the full pledged interview with the vendor until after the r p e r a p is determined which of these people who have responded to the therapy are the ones who really look like they might be a match? Narrow it down and then from there, go to the interviews. Usually, when i’m doing our fee for a large project, all in, you know, include a deadline to ask questions, preferably send those questions by email, and then i’ll send out the questions and answers to every participant in the r p so, again, everybody’s getting the same answer is getting old questions. Asked even nothing worth questions, they particularly asked. Okay, e-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. E-giving cubine have you ever decided to reinvent yourself? Are you navigating a new life’s journey? Are you an aspiring artist that’s looking for direction? This is kevin, barbara, ll and my new show, coffee talk three point, always your new best friend. Tune in live to hear successful professional artists and their inspiring real life adventures. Mondays at two p m eastern, right here at talking alternative dot com stand. Wait, no this’s, the same way we’re hosting part of my french dinner city guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us, a part of my french new york city. Every monday from one to two p, m. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hey, hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Oppcoll what? What? What specifics can we leave? Give the non-profits around our f p planning. So creation so very important. Assess whether the rv is necessary or not. My take their two things that in general there’s a dollar amount relative to your total revenue that’s going to justify doing the rpg? Determine what? That is really another thing that’s kind of abusive to the vendors is you have a twenty thousand dollar project and the vendor is used to doing fifty one hundred hundred fifty thousand dollar project it’s not worth their time to answer the our feet that’s work they’re doing without getting paid for it. So you want to make sure that there is some value to vendor in taking the risk of the answers are api. They’ll put the hours putting the time means yes. Okay. Okay, so, so being part of this is be respectful to the vendors. And you know, if this is a simply project and not that high dollar, then just go straight to the vendor interviews. Don’t do the rp process. Don’t make him look that hard. Okay, value to it. Okay. Other other advice? What else? What else could we be doing better the when you do have the valid or if he makes sure that you’ve got the right questions and they’re not the ones there, you know, and just the right ones. I think there is if you go look for examples of our apiece on the web, you get one’s written by very large companies that are sixty pages long. I think in a lot of our cases with the work that we’re doing this non-profits we don’t have to write sixty page long are appease, we can keep the questionnaire is shortened just what they need to be. I’ve done our peace for large dollar projects, but they’ve really only been one or two page question because because that told me what i needed to know to move forward well, let’s, explore this a little more what other advice to have around questions that don’t really belong that you think, are there often that you see often? Well, again, i think comes too. You wantto ask what you know, not ask what you don’t know so again in that kind of web, our fee, you know? All right? Or let me even back off again with myself feeling example, i didn’t ask every vendor if their sails for certified i didn’t ask if they, you know, do you know how to do this? That or the other detailed thing in sales for us? I asked broader questions for hyre level skills and ask for examples again because, you know, i didn’t want just putting questions for the sake of having questions if the vendor is on the sale, i found all these vendors through sales force af exchange, they’re certified yeah, okay, yeah, anything that i didn’t need to ask. I didn’t ask so again, focus the questions generally you could assume if you’re picking the vendors were going to send the rp two, is supposed to just posting rp publicly and both are valid ways to go. But, you know, you really could make some assumptions that they’re going to have this that or the other thing and not necessarily make them answer questions on necessary. I do like to ask questions like particularly if i’m going for some kind of there’s a sport contract following its avenger than to rely on past the initial install what? The rate of turnover is the questions like that. So you, khun gouge the stability of the company. There are different types of r f peace. Yes. Okay, let’s, talk about some of different types. What are they, um how do you categorize? Ok, so i work in technology, and i see two general types. One is for product ones for services to a very different and, you know, again with the products i think you want to ask. Actually ask a lot of questions on day one of the reasons you want to do that. You’re looking for a new phone system. It’s very important to you. They’d have certain types of conference calling functionality. Or maybe it does calls center. You know, there are things that your particular looking for for your organization. So you ask every one of those questions. Do it in a way that simple. The answer that they can check a box or, you know, just say yes. No, um, you know, again that’s the way you be nice with a lot of questions, everything they demolish, everything doesn’t have to be a narrow exactly. And then once you decide on the vendor include the r f p response as an amendment to the contract so they’re accountable for what they said their system could do in the ar fi. O interesting. Okay, that sounds like that’s very good advice. Other other something else and different tight around different types is just product versus services bilich anything else that you want to leave people with around labbate i’m kind of okay, okay, um, what if? Well, i guess let’s get to what the ultimate benefit of all of this is if you have smarter or f p’s, we’re going toe is going to be hiring the better the better providers. Well, i mean that, you know, the goal is for the non-profit to get the return on investment on, you know, we’re spending a lot of money on this project that’s why we’re doing the therapy in the first place. We want to make sure that when it’s all said and done, we haven’t wasted that money, the two risks icy or one that you make a big investment in my case in technology, and then that technology is rolled out in such a way that it’s not useful to people it’s not used you’ve made the big investment. You haven’t gotten the functionary that you were seeking that’s one problem the other night where we see is that we haven’t really picked the right vendor. The project has become a money pit that we’re now thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds thousands over what we wanted to pay software evaluation for major systems for your new fund-raising system for, you know, your new website something that is a big investment for the organization in a very important project provoc can’t can’t be decided on by one or two people in a room somewhere e i mean project’s go much better if more people are involved at the start of them in the evaluation in determining the needs and entering what’s important product demos are great opportunities to educate staff about what the software could do for them because most people go into a software project thinking, i know what i like in my current product. Does the new product do the same things? But the question really should be, how could this new product give me more capabilities? Mohr strategic possibilities and my existing software did and going to the demos and seeing you know what the president is going to show, you can spark the imagination. Okay, having this many people in that room as possible. Okay, now your program is an hour and a half, so i know we haven’t exhausted this. What more can we? I mean, your your workshop is going to be so what more can you can you share? I’m leaving it open to you. What more can you tell us that we haven’t talked about my pushed any anti seizure shin is to do about food four, five minutes worth of presentation, so you’re right. I have more than this, okay? And then open up for a good discussion and in this case, because we’ve got vendors versus staff and it’s a controversial topic, i’m hoping for some violence. You are? Yeah, we’ll see. Last year i did one on project planning. I’m agile versus waterfall, too. Computing project management philosophy’s i was hoping that we’d have some, you know, excitement in the room. But no, everybody agreed with me that there’s time for one in time for a male. We’ll see. It wasn’t it wasn’t. It didn’t turn out to be his. Provocative as he would have liked. So maybe, well, maybe start out by moving all the consultants to one side of the room in the staff to the other. Okay. And then looking throw things or something. Okay, well, let’s, leave it there then. Peter campbell is chief information officer for legal services corporation on dh. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc the non-profit technology conference. Thanks so much for being with us, thanks to everybody at the non-profit technology conference and there hosts the non-profit technology network and ten next week, an interview or two from fund-raising day that’s the one day conference in new york city in june, where i got a whole bunch of speaker interviews, i have one or two of those. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com generosity. Siri’s they sponsor non-profit radio generosity siri’s dot com or seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven our creative producer is clear miree off. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell, social marketing and the road producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music. This music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping countries. People be better business people. Buy-in have you ever decided to reinvent yourself? Are you navigating a new life’s journey? Are you an aspiring artist that’s looking for direction? This is kevin, barbara, ll and my new show, coffee talk three point oh, is your new best friend. Tune in live to hear successful professional artist and their inspiring real life adventures. Mondays at two p m eastern, right here at talking alternative dot com stand wait. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. 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Amy Sample Ward
Amy Sample Ward is CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network and our contributor on social media. On the opening day of the Nonprofit Technology Conference, we talked about the value of NTEN and NTC for small- and mid-size nonprofits. Everybody uses technology!
Glen McKnight, Andrew Mack, Evan Leibovitch
Introducing the new top level domain–and its affiliated community–for nonprofits throughout the world. Plus, a primer on how domains are managed by ICANN. I learned a lot! My guests from the Nonprofit Technology Conference are Glen McKnight, secretariat of NARALO (it represents you!); Andrew Mack, principal of AMGlobal Consulting; and Evan Leibovitch, global vice chair of the At Large Advisory Committee of ICANN.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m very glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure black hairy tongue if i came to learn that you had missed today’s show and ten on dh and tc why you should pay attention amy sample ward is ceo of non-profit technology network and our contributor on social media. Of course you know her. On the opening day of the non-profit technology conference, we talked about the value of n ten and anti seafirst small and midsize non-profits everybody uses technology and dot ngo, introducing the new top level domain and its affiliated community for non-profits throughout the world, plus a primer on how domains are managed by icann. I learned a ton, and you will too. My guests from the non-profit technology conference are glenn mcknight, secretariat of naralo, which represents you will learn what that is. Andrew mac principle of am global consulting and evan leibovich, global vice chair of the at large advisory committee of i can between the guests on tony’s take two inauguration of the non-profit radio knowledge base, both these interviews came from ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference. And here is my discussion with amy sample ward about the conference and ten welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fourteen the hashtag is fourteen and t c and my guest now is amy sample war. She is very well known to non-profit radio listeners, of course, a monthly social media contributor, but here and and and outside non-profit radio. She does have a role. And that is ceo of non-profit technology conference of and abandon the non-profit technology network partner. Exactly nowhere. Welcome back. Good to see you. Thank you, it’s. Nice to actually be in person. Yes, i know you were usually bicoastal, right? The power of radio is that we’re not actually in the same room. I know. Um, your ceo of this gig. How did your did your welcome? Plenary go. I hope everybody was standing ovations. And was it exciting? I was here setting up. Yeah, it was it was really great, but actually, i think i was surprised. I think everyone else was surprised by how many emotions we went through because there were stories and videos. From the jupiter video awards and ah, ignite presentations that put everyone in tears inspired them, but then also things where we were laughing hysterically, so it was it was a great emotional roller coaster, which i don’t know what that says about the attendees or the community, but that’s how we’ve started the conference, a lot of open hearts, exactly excellent, excellent, and i’d like to spend some time talking about something that we don’t when you’re on each month, which is let’s, talk about what the non-profit technology network is, and then we’ll talk some about ntcdinosaur well, for future future future conferences, but, um, tell me what’s the why should somebody pay? Why should someone in a non-profit pay attention to non-profit technology network? Well, so many reasons way have a decent number of minutes together as usual, i would say first of all, it it’s totally okay if you don’t want to be on in ten member, but there is definitely no way that in your organization you khun b ignoring the valuable and critical piece that technology is bringing to you being able to work efficiently, effectively, i know what you’re doing know who you’re reaching know how much money you’ve raised track what you’ve done proved that you’ve done it tell people then, how much you’ve done, you know, technology is just crucial for any organization, regardless of who they are, where they’re based, what they’re trying to do, who they want to talk, teo, and to not focus on that across your staff, you know, it isn’t just the director that should know about those things. Every staff person is making decisions that impact technology either for their team, for themselves or just is it taking you five minutes to do something that could take you one minute? You know that that means more time devoted tio doing more of your work instead of, you know, doing more work to do the work, okay? And and how does intend help people who are let’s focus on the people? We’re not in it and because, you know, our audience is nine thousand small and midsize shops, they may very well not have a night manager directly. So what does intend for those people? Well, we’re really focused on strategic use of technology, meaning we don’t focus on the specific tools were we’re never going to tell people on a webinar that they should all be using a certain tool or a certain app or a certain platform, because it may not be right for you. Those those tools, i mean, there’s a million choices for everything, right? There’s like over two thousand crowdfunding platforms? I mean, there’s, there’s just so much choice out there that it’s important, that we provide some some practice, give people a chance to practice, talk through and really understand how to make those strategic decisions. How do you evaluate what you need so that when you go look at those tools, when you walk through the science fair and talk to different providers, you’re able to say, this is what we’re looking for. Can you get us there instead of allow shiny? I want your shiny thing, so helping people understand how to evaluate their own needs, but then how to budget for the technology that you’re able to bring in figuring out what your budget is, and then how to push that against all of your programs. You know, it shouldn’t just be a bucket of office supplies and general technology, not a great budgeting plan on then. Also that you’re able to evaluate then what you invested in to know if it’s still meeting your needs if it’s helping you reach that impact if it’s helping you measure that impact, etcetera and we’re talking about technology runs the gamut. Randi probably could be cr emmett, maybe social exactly might be crowdfunding could be your web site. It could be anything. Um and how does how does intend go about this? How do we empower non-technical agis ts too do all the things that you you’re you just said with that with their technology and and evaluate yeah, we i mean, we’re always open to more ideas for how to do this. Because it’s a it’s. A lot of work, right? It’s. A pretty big mission. Pretty large goals and what what we do, at least right now is we have offline events. We have the conference. We have auntie si. But we also have smaller local events sum that happened every month as volunteer lead meetups in about thirty cities in north america, plus poland. And you know poland is charging ahead for europe. And then we have some that are led by antennas workshop. So all day workshops usually in a pretty deep dive into a specific topic training, etcetera and those air live workshops in in cities. Yeah, we’re in a density, i guess, yep, exactly on then we have year round online programs, all kinds, you know, same as you were saying, every kind of technology, every kind of technology is covered in our webinars we have way have webinars for fund-raising folks for communications folks for leadership level staff who don’t want to know howto install a module in their droop a website, they just want to know why they have decided to use that website and and for those folks, we also have webinars that are for people just getting started trying to figure out the tools that they need, and people have been doing it for twenty years, you know, and are really looking for the latest and greatest kind of tips on to be able to share with each other and the merge of those offline events and community programs and our online webinars our communities of practice, so those are usually topic focusedbuyer oops, so there’s one four directors, for example, there’s one for folks who manage content for their non-profit, etcetera, and they’re online discussions, but they can have monthly calls her webinars together on their totally free to participate in communities of practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eso it’s it’s kind of the merger of being able to talk to other people that know what you’re talking about, learn something with each other, but then also have kind of asynchronous just online connection. Tell us a little about inten itself. How? Because the staff well there, i think they’re throughout the country. Right? Right. We have way have eleven staff and eight of them are in portland, oregon. Okay. And three of them work from home in the cities they live in in california, washington and illinois. Um, and how long have you been within ten? I this i just realized this yesterday. The, uh, ntc in d c in twenty eleven was my second week as the membership director when i started twenty eleven yet. It’s, my, my three year anniversary. Okay. Congratulations. And thank you. You started as membership. I started as a membership director. You remember of intend for a long time. Where, you know, for many years in new york city, you were going to the meet ups there? Yeah, i actually have been a member, and i started the tech club that’s in portland back in two thousand seven and then left and started a tech club in london and then moved to new york and was a co organizer in new york, and i’m back in portland, so i had to rejoin is a co organizer because the group is still going seven years later, which is very strange to show up and not have to tell people why it’s there, you know, when you’re just starting a community kind of volunteer led group, every meeting that started with okay, this is why we’re here. Please tell your friends, please bring people to this group so that we can survive. And now it’s. Just a thriving community. It’s it’s really surreal. Outstanding. But now what happened in london? You didn’t mention london as a city that has. Yeah, they still do. They still have their eye. I am not sure if they still do mention poland yet. Poland, right? But london, you know well, london was formed under tech soups, community program, net squared and so they may still work with tech. Soup there’s a a country partner, their charity technology trust so they may still work with them, but they aren’t at least ten and ten affiliated group. And, of course, if you want to find where the intent affiliate groups are the intern work. Thean ten website. Exactly, yeah, under the community tab. We have a tech club link and i love that the novel called and ten new york city and in portland, and i don’t think any of them have and ten in the name. Many of them are called tech for good summer called tech clubs. Some of them are just called like community technology, something we’re pretty open. Our point is that people are having these conversations and sharing these resource is, regardless of what they’re calling themselves. Okay? And how much of what we’ve talked about can someone participate in if they’re not on intend member, you can participate in anything we do without being a member, but as a member you can get big discount on registering for the conference. You always get a discount on webinars or training’s things like that. Okay, everything is accessible, very giving group we’d like to give you. Alright, that’s, wonderful art. So you don’t have to be a member. They didn’t even think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz hyre but what is membership like if if i am a member, yes, but i don’t remember if there’s only one rate that that members pay. Sure. So there’s you conjoined as an individual or you, khun joins an organization when you join is an organization. It covers unlimited staff, because we don’t necessarily know how many staff you have so it’s so you don’t know whoever your staff are. They khun b, a member, three organizational membership and it’s based on your operating budget. So if you’re ah non-profit, whose annual operating budget is five hundred thousand dollars or less, which is the vast majority of the profits than your annual membership for unlimited staff is sixty dollars, you’re kidding. I am not sixty dollars, for an organization under under half a million dollars. Yes, that’s outstanding, or i think so, too, and that’s the vast majority of non-profit radio listeners like small and midsize. If you happen to be an organization that has an annual budget over half a million dollars how much? Then it goes up. It goes from five hundred, too. Two million. Two million to five million and then above five million. So even if it leave it at the top, it’s still only three. Thirty five. Oh, my goodness. And for unlimited members within your organization? Yeah. Are you getting a little help from somebody in the audience? No, i i just saw i just saw julie. Who is our conference manager. Look up when i as soon as i was starting to say specific numbers because i haven’t had a lot of sleep. So saying specific numbers on a microphone, you know, okay. And i’ll give a shout to julie to thank you very much, julie, for all the help that you gave non-profit radio and me leading up to today. Thank you very much. Really? Julie conroy is that excellent eyes also julia smith. Yes, she was. Julia smith is not currently here, but i’ll shut her out too. She was also very, very helpful. Yes. And we have a james and a jessica. We are no longer hiring j names wear at capacity for j names. All right, let’s. Move. Teo ntc why is the non-profit technology unconference a great benefit for oh, wait. No, no, i have to go back individual membership. So, yes, we didn’t cover that. What was there? The same? They’re the same benefits, but they only cover one person. Okay. Andi, how much did i pay for eighty five dollars? Starbucks stand. Oh, so individuals pay more than small organizations? Yes. Because primarily individuals in the membership in the community are independent consultants. So it’s it’s kind of the hybrid between it being the for-profit organisational range. But put it in his individual. Okay, um, so now let’s talk about the non-profit technology conference and she why is this terrific? For for non-technical agis ts and then well, and then we’ll talk about technologies do because you have a lot of there’s, a lot of technical there’s, good technical work. And they’re all kinds of nerds here. Yeah. All right. Well, all right. Let’s, talk. Let’s. Start with the technologist. We’ll double it. Technologist. Find here. Ah, you will find many people who feel just like you that you are probably the only person in your organization that knows what you’re talking about or knows what those things mean or knows how to set up a database, but you’ll also probably find a lot of people who legitimately want to get past the conversation of, you know, complaining about oh my gosh, you know, my program staff hate when i tell them this or no one ever does their updates, if you are a really, you know, director, technology person in the organization, you’re going to find people, regardless of their job title, who want to talk to you about the things you’re doing, the things they are doing, you know, and and really talk shop, get share ideas, figure out if there’s something you’re doing that they haven’t heard of, you know, tell you about their favorite tools. It’s a pretty good it’s, a pretty good kind of swapping community. So let’s, let’s break down silos where where is off on the side? Yeah, often not in leadership or decision making rolls, right? An organization writes and that’s collaborate. Right. And that’s. Why we got rich? We no longer have when you look at the program schedule for the conference, we no longer list tracks we don’t say, you know, these are all of the sessions for communications people and these air the sessions for leadership level staff because there may be leadership level staff who managed the communications as well, because there are a small organization or they may be communication staff that want to be in a leadership position, and they want to go to those sessions. So we tried to break down even our structure that promoted those silos to encourage people to go to the sessions based on the content of the sessions. So we still listed if it was a tactical or restaurants, you know, gave some parameters, so people knew what they were getting into. But hopefully it really encourages that cross pollination. You go in a room and the speaker could ask, you know, who works in these departments? And you’re going to have people representing every part of oven organization and what i do see these air, not tracks, but i see. Learn, learn, connect and change a cz topics that the workshops fit into, right? Yeah. Those are the three pillars of intends villages. I call them topics, but yeah, yeah, they they sound very important when you say pillar. There, the three buckets of our work there, the pieces of our strategic plan and their how really, everything we do, helps fit across the spectrum of the community. There are people that want to come just to make connections, and that is okay. You know, they’re people that come. They don’t want to talk to anybody that i want to be anybody’s friend. They just need to learn this stuff so they can go to work, you know? But there are also people that come here because they want to do all of it. You know, they want to meet a couple people, they want to be inspired, but they also wanted go to that one session and write everything down that the person says, because they know they need to hear it. Let’s, let’s, talk about ntcdinosaur the for the non technologist. Sure. What? What? What? What are we gonna find? Sure. I mean, some of the some of the most rapidly growing segments of the membership are into traditionally non-technical teams, the program staff on the leadership staff because as i was saying at the beginning, you know, everyone has recognized that you have you have to be smart about the technology you’re using cause it’s underpinning everything you dio it is your success or your failure. So staff in program rolls are now being told, you know what? Can you demonstrate that? Can you prove that we don’t want to know if you serve that many meals? We want to know how those meals change those people’s lives and we’re used to being able to tick up pretty easy to get, you know, transactional box and now it’s program staffer being challenged by funders even by their own staff and their boards to really be able to tell the whole story of their impact and not just the transaction data. They’re coming to the entire community to figure out. Not just how do we think about measurement? You know, they know how to think about measurement, but they need to know howto i actually store this data. How do i collect the data? How do i know if the data is valuable and it’s the right data? And then how do i tell stories about this? You know, i’ve collected all this data, all these numbers. What do they even mean? Can we create context can recreate really compelling evidence? Okay, program staff, what about fundraisers there? I mean, ever it’s a non-profit conference, everybody is a fundraiser. Everybody would gladly talk to you about how you should invest in their organization. So there are true fund-raising sessions, you know, plenty of sessions that air explicitly about friendraising but so many sessions now kind of blur the lines between program communication and fund-raising because they’re about storytelling. Well, it could be a story you want to tell that’s an advocacy campaign or it could be a story you wanna tell, two raise money for your mission, whatever it is, there are so many of the sessions that i think touch on all of those best practices, all the principles you need to follow and many sessions, even if they’re considered a fund-raising session or communication session use examples from all those different kinds of campaigns. How about ceos? Executive director’s? Why? Why did they belong here? Oh my gosh, i mean, i really think that if you are leading an organization and you, you don’t need to know how to get into the back end of your website and change things, but if you don’t know why you have that website, how it is meeting your goals, how you’re going to decide if you need to do a redesign or you need to go get a new website or or anything, then you’re not going to be able to make those decisions in a leadership position. You’re going to be relying on your staff, which is great, they should help you help inform that decision, but if you’re not able to directly engage the way that you are for many, you know organizational leaders and maybe a fundraising campaign decision or a pr topic, i just don’t think that you’ll be able to successfully implement any project that then relies on that website or then relies on that database, as you said earlier, i mean technology’s just so critical toe operating any organization right, leadership needs to know exactly what it can do, how it can be a value and the leaderships sessions that air at the conference, you know aren’t trying to tell executive directors how to build a website, you know, they’re not trying to convert you to become a technologist, the sessions here for leadership level staffer really toe have those conversations about how do you staff for technology? If every single staff person is responsible for managing and budgeting for the tools they need to get their work done, are you providing them with training? How are you evaluating, you know, their use in there, you know, quarterly or annual reviews, all of those pieces that fall under, you know, a traditional non-profit leader’s role with staffing and accounting and all of that still has to either rely on technology or consider technology to be successful. Do you know, are there many board members who come many board members because many people who are on non-profit boards also work at a non-profit, you know, so they’re coming with with two roles, both how do we, you know, think about this as a board where we’re really looking at that evaluation piece, we’re really looking at that larger story of our mission, but then also how i think about this for my day job, where i work and maybe in a more specific role, okay, leave me with something inspirational as ceo because we’re about we’re about to wrap up about ten or, um, something inspirational it’s like, if you tell someone to say something funny, nothing left to say, well, something that i was inspired by, at least for this morning’s plenary was that, you know, i said at the very beginning, there were a couple that made everybody cry. There are a couple that made everybody laugh, and there were a couple that were just the true here is what you need to know to go be successful in your work, and i think it was that, at least to me, what what i reflection on that is that it was the perfect balance of how i feel like almost every session goes every day of the conference goes, and really the whole year with this community of people, it isn’t what did you say? Open hearts, you know, it’s it’s, one of the on ly communities have ever been in in my life where a zsu nas you show up, you know, and you have that kind of hesitation do i introduce myself? What do i do? Everyone just has high where have you been? You are supposed to be here no matter who you are, no matter what organization you represent and and i think the fact that we could start a conference in an unprompted way with tears and laughter and people sharing incredibly personal stories from a stage in front of two thousand people, i think there’s just evidence that it’s a community made for that sharing, you know, it’s, check your insecurities at the door because this isn’t a place for that kayman sample words the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten there in ten dot or ge her idea on twitter is at amy rs ward herb log is amy sample ward dot or ge? And i want to thank you very much and she’s also, as i said, ah, regular monthly contributor to non-profit radio, which i’m very glad about, thanks so much. Thank you for having me and thank you for being at the anti see. It’s a real pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for setting us up. Here durney martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference and t c fourteen ntcdinosaur hashtag thanks very much for being with us. I love having amy is a guest and it was a pleasure to be with her face to face at ntc we have a new sponsor. It is generation siri’s. You may recall that just a couple of weeks ago i am seed their event in brooklyn. It was a five k run walk and it raised money for ten charities. That’s what generation siri’s does? They put together runs and walks for the benefit of a bunch of charities and they do all the back end work of getting the permits and the licenses and they rent the equipment, all the audio and all the tents and all the stuff that you need it to finish line and they take care of all of that for the benefit of the charities that want to participate. They had that one in brooklyn there’s one coming up in miami, new jersey, toronto. They’ll be back in new york city in november and i hope to emcee that one in aa in new york city and maybe a couple of others, you will find a generation siri’s at gen events dot com jen events. Dot com. Very nice people. David lin is the ceo there. I am taking interviews fromthe show and grouping them into topics to create the non-profit radio knowledge base i’m inaugurating the knowledge base with branding branding is so muchmore than most people think of it as so much more than your visual identity logo, website tagline and on the my block this week, there are links two interviews about branding so you can see just how deep it is. If you missed those interviews through the years, i’ve got close to two hundred hours of non-profit radio july is going to be the two hundredth show doing this for four years, and the knowledge base will organize all those interviews by topic so that you can pull the best of non-profit radio, video and audio on the subjects that you want and listen, watch on any device. The introductory video is on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, eighteenth of april, the sixteenth show of the year. And here is my interview now with three gentlemen who are delivering and representing the new top level domain dot ngo. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen with that hashtag it’s fourteen and tc, we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c and joining me now are glenn mcknight, andrew mac and evan leibovich and we’re going to talk about i can naralo so there’s acronyms we’re goingto flesh all that out and the new dot ngo top level domain all about domains and how these air all managed today. Glenn mcknight is secretariat of naralo, which is the north america regional at large organisation. Andrew mac is principal of am global consulting and is helping with the launch of the dot ngo top level domain. And evan leibovich is global vice chair of the at large advisory committee of i can. Gentlemen welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, evan, i can i see a n n the tell us what it is and why it’s important came. I can is the internet corporation for assigned names and numbers. It manages i p addresses, which is the machine numbers addresses of how machines find each other on the internet and the names of whatever dot com dot or ge dot us dot uk of the names you used to actually translate. To those numbers on how you get from your computer to wherever you’re looking for things every device connected to the internet, every single device in the world has to have a unique i pee or internet protocol address, right? If i overstated it, isn’t that? Is that right? Well, the problem is, is there’s a shortage of these numbers and everything, but i just didn’t need a number. Yeah, just agree with me that each single device that’s, right so one person could have three or four easily i p address is right. You have your phone, you might have your ipad, you might have your desktop right and maybe have a fourth device that i can’t think about, maybe have two phones, so each individual device has to have its own unique i p address, right? You’re absolutely right. I can. The internet corporation for assigned names and numbers manages that that process is that right? The numbering scheme, as well as the naming scheme numbers and not right. Because in your address bar, i’m tryingto make this this’s relevant to every single person. Absolutely who’s connected to the internet. So i’m not gonna make sure the relevance is clear when you go to your address bar you either type in a name most likely or a number. And that all is an idea. Dress at all relates to an i p address and that’s how you get to a site or a device if you knew the number itself like one o six thought this thought this thought this you could type that directly into your browser, but most people don’t know that. Okay? Yes, but there is a number behind every name. So i have tony martignetti dot com there’s an i p address the number that that’s an address in itself. There’s a number behind that. That common name. Exactly. Okay. Excellent. And if you think about it, if i can yeah, i can look at the andrew. It looks at the international policies around that. So it’s not just a question of the technical side, but also where is the internet going? What will the future of the internet look like? And it’s in a really interesting kind of public private partnership? Because it brings in people from many different sectors from the private world, from the government world from the non-profit world and they all come together to help design the policies that guide the internet as it goes forward. I can. I can is people. There are the internet corporation there. There are fuller. This is a robot. You know, it’s important to understand that distinction you wanted well, but the other thing to understand is that yes, there’s policies. But this is not about censorship. This is not about that neutrality. About that little sliver of regulations about names and numbers. Help me. Are there people are thie internet corporation comprised of people? Yes. Or there is. There is an office in in california and there’s offices in brussels. There’s offices in singapore where they have warm bodies that manage this. But there’s a massive community of volunteers that are. We’ll talk about it. It’s. Very bottom up. That’s what i think most people do not understand. I think most people think it’s dominated down top down. But it’s not and that’s where? The that’s where the regional at large organizations come in because there throughout the world. Right? Ok, now we’re going. We’re not tuna, rallo yet. Who appointed? I can to this role. How did they get that responsibility? Technically, it’s a contract with the department of commerce. So where did they come from? And let me explain, created icann the internet, as you, as you may know, was born out of a u s series of u s government contracts, right? He got big bird was originally a military was it was from the start, but, yeah, profanity. So it was it was set up and the advanced rate i liketo like i don’t like to leave listeners with acronym, the defense advanced research project administration illustration. That’s, right, darpa and so darpa. And the idea was that we wanted to have systems that would that would be able to share data when bad things happen. Right then it migrated to you guys and probably know a little bit more about the academic side than i do, but been migrated to being a way of for academics to share data. And then as time went on, people realized that this was a really big thing, and it could have a lot more. It could have a lot more potential uses that wade initially thought it was a very exciting time, very exciting time and so that clinton was during the clinton administration, and they decided this is too big to just be held in the united states and that there’s a real value and having it be a global thing. And so there was a movement to try to create this. What is effectively a public private partnership that involves people from around the world, and then then then i can was born, and it has been moving in different directions to become more and more internationalist as time has gone on since the early nineties. Ok, ok. And, of course, where where i’m deliberately not mentioning the old al gore cliche. I’m so tired. Okay, all right now, let’s. Okay, so that is very interesting. Very, very i can. So now it is bottom up. So we have these offgrid these regional at large, um, at large organizations throughout the world. Of which naralo the north america regional right regional advisory organs committee is one or the organization naralo well, i can has chopped the world into five region, so no naralo is one of them. There’s, also one for latin american and caribbean, one for europe went for asia and one for asia pacific and one. For africa. Okay, all these at large organizations throughout the world and they are helping to represent the people that are the people that are people, the individual internet users day in and day out, right? You’re not buying it. Domain. You’re not selling domain. You use them in your browser that’s, right? What does that mean? Well, so they thought the thought is that how does that relate to what i wait, wait. Give it a chance. Okay? How does that relate to what i just said? Okay, if ford wants to have a website that you look at their cars, so ford goes out, they buy four dot com. And in germany, though, by four dot d e and so on and so forth. Okay, yeah. Then, it’s, they market to you here’s how to find us. All right, four dot com you type that into your browser, you’re not the one buying the domain. They’re paying money to somebody toe have four dot com. They’re buying an annual subscription to somebody toe have that? Yes, they’re paying to somebody else that have four dot d and so on and so forth each of these top level domains dot com dot or ge every country has won so in canada’s dot see a uk, right? A you and so on. So there’s right now, there’s about twenty two dozen odd generic ones that aren’t associated with the country. Every country has designated their own and there’s about to be a very, very large expansion. Okay, we’re gonna get to that. We’re going to get there. Don’t worry. We have twenty five minutes together. Don’t worry. We’re not going to lose that. I know. It’s important. I happen to know, for instance, that morocco, the country, morocco is dahna emma. Because i have bought through bentley the custom earl. Tony. My name tony martignetti. Tony dot. M a. So i know morocco is emma and you know, and in bit lee itself. Where is billy going through? I don’t know why. Libya? Libya. Oh, dot fulwider libya. Yes. Okay. Excellent. Who thought right? You do that. All right. You got the right people. Hear you, do you? Do you guys do well, that’s a rhetorical question for the three of you know what? I was anywhere else than any other audience. That would be. That would not be rhetorical. If you see something dot tv that money is going to the island of to look tuvalu to value in the south pacific. Follow-up xero tuvalu otavalo alright to tuvalu. Okay, um, so well, all right. So i pay my money for the dot tony dot emma. Andi, i paid it to whatever hover or domain director, you know where you bought it from a registrar. Okay. That’s a recess, the registrar. And then they in turn, have bought it from a registry. The guys who run the dahna registry makes sense within that within the country of morocco. So more cases in the case of morocco it’s run it’s, run by the whoever’s, the moroccan internet authority. Okay, in some case, it’s much advantaged by a third party because they may have the technical skill. I don’t doubt that the two blue government, in fact, i know that the two blue government uses uses that uses a third party that help them run. That which is fine, you know it’s good for them. And how is all this? And how do do those relate to? I can’t okay, so i know there isn’t a direct relation. I mean, i know they’re not direct, but well, i can through contracts essentially has relationships with the people that do dot com dot or dot net and the new ones that air coming around the ones that are the country codes. There’s a little bit of a hands off relationship because that’s a national sovereignty thing. So i can doesn’t get involved in the national codes, but they coordinate them. So they do show up at the i can meetings. There is a relationship going, and they work on things like best practices. Okay, without i can we we would probably have duplicates all over the world. We wouldn’t be able to reach anybody. We’d have duplicates and triplets and quadrillion million connections. Think this is one of the things that tony that i think it’s really been important about. The way that the internet has developed is is that the real strength of the web is that it is a unitary web that there’s one place, that all of us can go where we can all meet online. So there’s not a moroccan web and a saudi web. Yeah, and and and and and a senegalese web. And because of that, we can do so much more together. And so one of the great things that i can has contributed, i think is, is that it’s managed to keep the international community together, given them a voice so that all of these different groups, like the user groups, like the commercial groups like the government groups, can advise the board in such a way that we can keep the web together so that we can really leverage it to the maximum impact. So you’re you know, now you now you you have, ah user base that maybe mostly in north america say, but there’s no reason why this couldn’t expand out into different languages and all over the world non-profit radio. Yeah, and that’s, partly because of the web being unitary. Unitary that’s one of the goals i think of i can is to keep it that way to try and get the most out of our way out of our ability to in-kind. But that also means satisfying the needs of people around the world. So you are now starting to see domain names that are in cyrillic that are in chinese script. There are in arabic or hebrew or hindi and so they’re not in latin characters. Now you may not be able to read them. You may not be able to use them, but the people in china or saudi arabia that are using them, i don’t care if you do or not, because they’re targeting their own language audience. Okay? And of course, i could always get to the number that’s behind those, right? So if i don’t know, i don’t know how i would do that. But i could. Well, your key bird could do arabic. Then you could type in arabic driving up there when you get it right. But short of that, there is a number behind everything. All those irrespective of the language that the address is in, right? Okay. In fact, you may have the arabic in the english pointing to the same number that conserve you in both languages. I don’t have the arabic and the english pointing to the same number. Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. Still a unique number. That’s. Right, number’s gotta be unique. Okay. All right. Now, let’s. Let’s. Bring glenn into the conversation because he’s, the one who brought this topic to me yesterday. And there is something very exciting happening for non-profits there’s a new top level domain like a dot com dot or ge glenn, why don’t you get real close tonight? Yes on dh tell us, what’s going on? Yeah, so actually the expert on this that is actually part of the p i r implementation of dot ngos is avenged and you’ve crossed it well, but i felt back you haven’t contributed yet and you brought this very interesting topic to me because actually the nancy spoke at the podium yesterday and and we’re at the inten conference and actually addressed the twenty, two hundred delegates saying, hey, we have this new ngo as not-for-profits you should be involved and i thought it was important. That’s why we did a birds of a feather yesterday that’s why were going around with our brochures on naralo informing the not-for-profits sector hey, the internet, internet governance, all the issues that are pertinent important to you actually there’s organisations particularly naralo that can assist you in this. Israel says we’re here particularly to promote not-for-profits to join as a lexus with i can okay, andrew will turn to you because you are helping with the launch. Of a new ngo, top level domain, and in fact, i was just because you mentioned it the other day. I was three weeks ago in morocco doing really doing, doing radio in morocco, actually, as part of it, right and all that brought you here. So that means you’re tony dot mm, exactly, right? So i mean, i just thinkit’s the world coming together and so perfect, right? So the idea behind a cz you know that and that’s, we’ve discussed that the internet has these amazing possibilities right for an especially corporate for non-profits if you think about it all around the world, non-profits many non-profits find themselves confronted by the same challenges they find themselves in need of partners. They find themselves in need of visibility. They find themselves in need of additional resource is and things like that. And thie as the internet. Azaz evan was describing there’s a tremendous interest in in in expansion of the internet so that so that more people can get on board can more people could take it, take use of it. There were historically twenty, some or first there were thirteen and they were twenty some different, but they called generics and those generics working like calm and like net on, like organ and the people public interest registry that brought as and have been managing dot or ge looked at this expansion of the internet that was proposed a few years ago and said, hey, there’s, a real opportunity or, like, calm like that is an open space, okay, you do not need to be a non-profit to have a dot orgel, though most many, many orders are very interesting, right? Most are, but you don’t have to be don’t have dahna same way that you don’t have to be a company to be a dot com, you don’t have to be a network to be a dot net, but that was the original taxonomy of it, right? So they said, hey, this may make real good sense if we’re expanding the internet out this make make real good sense for us to get to have a specific, targeted, safe space for ngos to congregate on the web, right? We’ll give them additional tools that will allow them to meet up that will allow them to do things and for people to find them right and have a high level of this’s the’s are in fact real ngos, and that stems out of for a whole host of reasons i mean one is the desire for ngos toe work together much more closely, which there, which is a huge issue around the world. Second one is there’s much, much more cross pollination and much, much more cross work between ngos from the global north and the global south. Donors are asking for it. The ngos themselves are asking for it. And yet, if you’re if you’re an ngo doing really great work on hiv aids in mali, it may be very difficult to get visible outside of bamako, right? And if you’re doing it from, you know, a secondary or tertiary city, its most impossible to do it. How will this new top level domain so the so the idea behind it is the way we create a a safe space, you get a dot ngo, a dot org and access to a portal and actually the ability to put up a little basic portal. Paige, if you’re if you like so that you could be found, you could be searched and found easily so that you can be you confined partners. You can share data with them and you can import your own donate button. You know you’re on your own. You’re on your own don’t donate app when every whatever you would use i would like to use so that you could receive funds directly when i was in morocco is a perfect example, right i was in was in three cities in four and a half days was in robot casablanca in marrakech. We had a long conversation with the people in marrakesh and he said, how many tourists come to america shevawn year and it’s hundreds of thousands. Right. So you think to yourself wow, we met with remember the incredible woman she’s, a pharmacist who set up a she set up an ngo to help deal with street children who were abandoned, children who were abandoned, the street, the babies or abandon in the street. And she said, you know, i said, well, how many? How many of these tourists that come know that you exist? You can afford to fly all the way to america’s ah, fifty, dollar contribution is a nothing, right it’s a dinner and yet no one could find her and she couldn’t find them. This is the kind of thing that will allow her to connect in with other ngos doing similar kind ofwork and conceivably with tourists with hotels with other people who are of, you know, who would love to give her money and love to support her work, and would never know that she existed. Okay, but tony there’s one there’s one important thing about this is that what andrew’s talking about? What dahna ngo is doing is more than we’re just going to sell you what don’t mean? Yeah now immortal it’s a community where is the other ones that are doing like dot dogs? Or died? N y c or a lot of these other let’s? Not let’s not know what what i’m saying from its not put dahna twice in the same category dot dogs, it shouldn’t even be in the same sentence. You’re from new york? Yes, and i’m wishing out there right now or dot bicycle or whatever the point is with most of these you by name, you get a name it’s like dot com that’s it and you’re on your own, right? This is not what this is. Deeper than that exactly. The goal. The goal is to create a real community and are carried a real international community with a lot of input. I mean, this is not a it’s p i r is helping to do the back end announcing the i r is right. The public interest registered the people who are doing the people who are running dot, dot launching dot ngo is the public interest register people who do dahna arkwright. Okay, they their goal, you know, there’s a there’s, a great sensitivity and it’s a valid sensitivity in the ngo communities and says who died and left you in charge? Right? And they’re very humble. And one of the things that we like about this approach is they’re very humble about it. They recognised that this has got to be a community organiser, you know, it’s got it’s got it’s got to be computer he organized pr can help the dot ngo people can help with the back end. But in the end there’s going to be it’s about and for the ngo community itself, okay with ngo governance and is part of it, yeah! You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems block a little? 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If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio, i d’oh. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. Oppcoll all right, all right. So, what way? Need some takeaways? We still have a good amount of time. We play time’s. Not that we’re not wrapping up yet. But what are some takeaways now for non-profits that have ninety nine percent there? There dot org’s people were talking to we’re listening. What? What should they? How did they take advantage of doubt, ngo, what do they what do they do? The first go to my office on monday. What do i do? Tow. Explore this more and see if i can. It makes sense for me. The first thing is to put an expression of interest and why. And what you do is you guys are laden with your acronyms. Oh, my god! Any? Oh, i an expression of introduction of interest on. And what that does is that puts you down. Puts you down is having expressed interest. There are a number of people who, for obvious reasons, have i have names that might overlap, especially if you go by your acronyms. So, it’s, good to get your name down as early as possible. It gets you on the list. It gets you gets you information. About what? When? Things are going to roll out because it’s still, you know, with anything technical, where do you go? Where do you do where you do the eoe eye? Who do i send the notice? You goto the one that i remember is g o t l d dot org’s. But there are others, and i’ll get you that in from okay, raymond. All right. So ngo t l d dahna latto or but if you could also go to the p i r dot ord website as well, p i r dot org’s also. Right. So, you know, i’m good listeners to be ableto take some actionable steps. Well, it hasn’t your well it hasn’t launched. It is a matter of getting getting on a waiting list. Effective bourelly at theo, i stage its course hasn’t launched, right? Yo, i but so what? You know so but the ideas it’s first come first served if you want to name that some other non-profit also wants to use the same name. So that kind of religion is that we don’t makes a lot of sense to get your eoe eoe eye your expression of interest in, you know, even if you may not have end up doing it. That’s what right? But claimed absolute claims in their advantage in claiming a space, of course, and then you get the choice later to actually use it or or let it let it let someone else that’s, right? It’s, not it’s, not a guarantee that you’ll get it, but and remember that space is only open to real ngos, right? So? So if a company cames in, if abc company wanted to come in, they wouldn’t qualify, so they won’t. They you know, they wouldn’t get a dot nt right, or an individual or on anything, even if i was doing that, even if you were an artist and even if you’re doing work for the public good, but still, you’re still not gonna qualify for dahna ngos, correct, okay, zsystems sorry, what andrew’s getting out it’s, a vetting system. This is a real improvement over the previous system, okay, we’re improving. Dahna what’s, the what’s, the what’s. The next step then after the expression of interest what’s gonna happen. So where we are, we in the hole i can process just generally is is that is that as as these new names have been approved right, then they have to get they have to go through their technical checkups and this kind of stuff. And then eventually they get what they put into the root. Right. Then they become available. And so what? What will happen is over the course of the rest of the year, all of this stuff will be rolled out. There are new ones being rolled out every every few weeks. If i remember correctly that’s, right? And the one the ones for for dot ngo are going to be available late in the year. It looks like and when they’re available, everybody who’s on the list will get advance warning of everything that’s happening. Your people to follow it on on our on the web sites and things like that and then when and then and then when it when it when it, when it happens when it comes live for sale and seven says it’s ah it’s a first come, first serve kind of thing there are, as you can imagine, a number of ngos that have the same name in different places around the world, of course. So if that’s one of the reasons why we’re encouraging people, especially people who are, you know, bigger networks that want to get in early, get torrio in now, as time goes on, they will be doing a whole host of launch events around this to try to sensitize people around the world and an important thing about this is it’s not just to do it for your own side, but share it with your network. This is a one of the great things about the dot ngo the community is that it will have a real network effect. The mohr ngos around the world that get into this community, the more people will be able to know, the more it’ll be easy for foundations and donors and individuals to say, i’m going to go there, i’m going to look for good, good people. I’m going to contribute. You may have heard of the of the work that people like eva are doing when you have a small micro lenders, you know, an individual can go on, give twenty five dollars to a to attu an entrepreneur in uganda imagine that on a huge scale for ngos around the world. And you got the idea that what what have done ngok very important to recognize that this is much deeper than just a top level domain, absolutely community it really worldwide commune and hopefully a real game changing technology for the ngo sector. There’s going to be hundreds of these? I mean, a lot of them are just going to go to you and say, well, if you couldn’t get what you wanted and dot com come to us, this is something much bigger than that. Okay, what else we got a couple minutes that was it sounds like a great wrap up, but i still want to spend a couple more minutes can tell you about what we’ve been doing around the world because i think it’s pretty interesting stuff. Uh, okay, keep it keep it relevant to our to our audio. Absolutely, absolutely it’s it’s just to give you a sense of what this is like, we’ve been actually talking with with ngo audiences around. The world i think we’ve done them in, i don’t know, maybe twenty different countries, at least, you know, morocco, senegal, cameroon, all over south america, india, singapore, dahna comes in different places. What’s so exciting about it is is that the feed back to the community has been that this is this is this is a really this is really good gig that they’re sure that they’re having a hard time, you know, they’re having a hard time getting the visibility and coming together because there’s not a common space. And so one of the things that we’ve we’ve made a big effort to do is to try to design all of the criteria for joining what it means to be an ngo real big challenge. What does it mean to be an ad to find across the world? So to be fair to everyone, you got it? And so what we’ve made a big effort to do is to get impact input from the different communities around the world to say, well, you know, you know, you you know, the west african community better than us give us advice on what would constitute an ngo and so that’s been great learning experience and and we’re continuing to we built this really great network of advisers and people who can give us input on, you know, does this work and and i’m guessing that this will be an ongoing process where, you know, as time goes on, well, will continue to refine and make this more and more and more appropriate to the local conditions as well as just a broad, broad international conditions i’m feeling i’m feeling very glad that non-profit radio is part of helping spread the word we’ll get, we’ll get nine thousand organizations. Well, tony it’s going to be very, very important, teo know about this kind of thing because you’re going to have this rollout of all these top level domains within the work i’m doing within at large, and i can’t there’s a really trust issue here that some of the domains, they’re just going to be a free for all, and anyone could be in there and there’s, no vetting their religion and so it’s important to know that there’s going to be some of them that are in this that are sort of a cut above from the rest. Okay, glenn yeah, i’d like to. And two that is that i suggest connecting with i can the main staff, the vp, chris mondini would be a perfect person to be a host guest issue. Okay, we’ll talk about it. We’ll talk about that after. Can people get information at n g o t l d dot org’s their information they can and there’s a booth. The dot ngo. People have a booth right as you walk into this room. Well, but what are nine thousand aren’t here? So you get you a lot and there and i think there’s another one global tl d no global ngo dot dot or guy think also is it global ngo dot or believe that that’s, right? But but goth definitely okay, of course, that stands for non governmental organization. Top level domain you gotta learn about all right, glenn mcknight. I’m sorry. Yeah. Koegler mcknight, secretariat, secretariat of naralo you spoke the least, but i want to thank you very much for bringing this up, but i’m glad i’m glad i met you yesterday. And then you brought in andrew mac. Principle of am g global. Ok, am amglobal amglobal consulting is makes sense. On day, of course, he’s also hoping with the launch of the dahna ngo new top level domain on glen, also brought in evan leibovich, global vice chair of the at large advisory of what am i messing up, vice chair global vice chair of the large advisory committee of of i can, which we all now understand is the internet corporation of assigned names and numbers i want thank you very much for revealing this this part of the back end of our magnificent internet and then also explaining the new top level domains. Gentlemen, thank you so, so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure, really joy. I learned a lot. I’ve never i’ve never heard this done in thirty minutes before. Okay, well, either we didn’t recover it superficially or we did a good job and kept a concise tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of and t c the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen. Thanks so much for being with us, i think those gentlemen very much glenn and andrew and evan and everybody at ntcdinosaur who made me feel so welcome while i was there for two days getting terrific interviews and there’ll be many more. Of those interviews to come in the weeks and months ahead next week, adam weinger on your matching gift program, and cindy gibson, our new contributor on grants, fund-raising she’ll be with me once a month. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam lever, which is our line producer, shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. This music you hear it’s by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Co-branding think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine. 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