The second set of Nonprofit Radio video interviews from #15NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network. Including distance collaboration, the cloud, Beth Kanter and Ritu Sharma.
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Lisa Jervis & Jeanine Shimatsu: People Far Away
Distance collaboration—whether a single co-worker telecommutes two days a week or you’ve got offices across multiple time zones—isn’t as easy as vendors would have you think. Let’s talk tools, work habits and organizational practices. Lisa Jervis is principal consultant at Information Ecology and Jeanine Shimatsu is IT specialist for Forward Together. We talked at NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN).
Tom Moberg: Files Far Away
Moving your files to the cloud presents options, obstacles and obligations (don’t make your staff cry!). Tom Moberg, independent strategic technology consultant, talks us through. This is also from NTC.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host. Oh my goodness! What a terrific fun show last week! I hope you’ve heard it by now. If you weren’t with me live, i hope you were there. It was great fun loved it two hundred fiftieth last week and i’m glad you’re with me this week, i’d be stricken with familial advomatic polly pope says if i had to digest the fact that you missed today’s, show people far away distance collaboration, whether a single coworker telecommutes two days a week or you’ve got offices across multiple time zones, this isn’t as easy as vendors would have you think let’s talk tools, work habits and organizational practices. Lisa jervis is principal consultant at information ecology and janine shimatsu is it specialist for forward? Together, we talked at ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference, hosted by non-profit technology network and ten and files far away. Moving your files to the cloud presents options, obstacles and obligations like don’t make your staff cry. Tom oberg is independent strategic technology consultant, and he talks us through files far away. This is also from auntie si on tony’s take to charity registration, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising you need more prospects there, smart technology will find them pursuant. Dot com here are lisa jervis and janine shimatsu from ntcdinosaur welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen we’re at the austin, texas, convention center my guests are lisa jervis and janine shimatsu their workshop topic is effective distance collaboration hint it’s more complicated than vendors like to admit. Lisa jervis sitting closest to me is principal consultant for information ecology and janine shimatsu is specialist at forward together. Ladies welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having us should have you both. Thank you, lisa, why don’t you get us started? What? What? What are non-profits not really thinking strategically about when they need to collaborate in a virtual office? Sure. Well, let me tell you a little story that i think is representative of a lot of people’s experience. Love story. I got interested in distance collaboration back in two thousand nine, i was working as the operations director for an organisation in oakland, california called the center for media justice. We had seven staff and one location. We just all worked in our office, and that was that. And then we hired someone who lived in chicago, and my edie said to me, so next week amalia needs to be on staff meeting, so figure out how to make that happen. And i was like, oh, oh, i have to think about how to make this happen. We now have this whole employee who lives elsewhere and, you know, so i was like, well, this is easy. We’ll just have her call in to the conference phone. And so every week we start having these staff meetings where the seven of us would sit around the table and look at the conference bone call amalia, talk to us and we, you know, and we kind of stopped talking to each other and started all talking to the phone. And, you know, i just i started noticing all of these ways in which our work was going to have to change in order to accommodate this one new staff person we kept growing. We eventually grew to two offices and ten staff, and that staff included two people who work remotely in neither of the offices so way. Started to want to see each other in our staff meetings. We had people who could not get files because the vpn wasn’t very effective and they couldn’t access the file server. You know, there was just this full constellation of needs that duitz we ii as the operations person had not had an opportunity to philly. Think through because, you know, the was like we heard this person let’s just, you know, go and include her in things now and was like, oh, well, there’s a whole set of issues to think about janine, why don’t you help us out? What are what are some of the things we should be thinking about? Oh, and we have plenty of time together, so we’ll be able to talk about them. But just as an overview. What? Where where should we be thinking? In terms of in general. Yeah, well, there are a lot of components of effective distance collaboration. There is not only the conference in peace that we started talking about. There’s also file sharing. There is also chadband calendars. How we manage email. There are a whole there’s a whole gambit of stuff where things can go right. But also where they could go wrong and it’s really, really important for organisations to know what their needs are and to be able to meet those needs. Ok? And i’m it sounds like the organization should be thinking more than a week in advance uh, from lisa’s story well, at least to talk about her stories, but but more than a week is probably a good idea. It is a good idea, although that’s not always the way it happens, because as lisa was sharing that story, i was just laughing because very recently, i just found out that one of our staff, people who work from home just moved and i didn’t find out until after they moved that they’re no longer located in new york, they’re located in los angeles, and that has a whole other has a lot of implications, such as internet connection and all this i don’t know if they’re living with you, alan, if they are renting or what’s, the situation with their landler is, like or any of these things that would really affect how they’re going to be working with the rest of staff. How it’s going toe play into the system that we already have developed on dso yeah, more than a week or a day would be great. Okay. Okay. Lisa let’s, come back. What? Where? How do we break this down? What should we be thinking about? Sure. We’re planning either bring someone in or yeah, i mean, o r we’re a virtual organization now, and we don’t feel like we’re doing it very smartly. Sure. Well, there’s one main overarching consideration that i think that people often don’t realize. And it has to do with the way that the business press and a lot of collaboration tool vendors talk about remote work there, like, just get a good internet connection and our software, and nothing will change and you’ll be able to do everything. And, you know, the reality is that things will have to change and things there’s overhead involved in remote work. And if you don’t plan for it in your organizational plans in your meaning agendas and in your individual work plans, then you won’t actually have enough time to accomplish the work that you had planned to dio. And so i think the most important thing is just to remember to build in that overhead into all of your plans as faras specific areas of work, there’s, kind of three main aspects, there’s meetings, then there’s file sharing. And then they’re well, yeah, i mean, janine took a whole bunch of stuff. Calendar, chat, email, file sharing conferencing, yeah, yeah, and then there’s, the process of kind of and a separate piece ofwork. Just choosing your tools and making agreements together as an organization about how they’re going to be used. Okay, now, jean let’s, go back to your i thought email was an interesting one. Why, i mean, email. Seems to me to be a fine distance tool without needing any planning. What am i missing? Well, the email is a great tool, and it doesn’t always work the same in all organizations. And i think, culturally are. My organization in particular, uses e mail a lot, especially because we do have a lot of people who don’t work in the same office. You can’t do the same. Drop by, and you can respond whenever you want and that’s. Great. Um, email. I think protocols need to be set for email in terms of setting expectations with other people internally with what is appropriate and how your staff is going to work best, just as with any other form of communication. What are some ideas you have around what these protocols should be? Um well. That’s great. I’m gonna think about that. Okay, back, teo. I mean, i have i have an answer a little bit. I mean, it does depend on the organization. It really is just about making agreements about what’s reasonable and what works for for the staff. I mean, in one organization that i worked in, we had a twenty four hour turnaround time agreement for internal emails. But if you needed something faster than that, you had to use another method. It was an agreement that we made as a staff that for emergencies, you will text or chat or call, you know, because those air, more immediate things, like people were not expected to be on their email, you know, within five minutes. And so you just couldn’t email about goings, and then i’m thinking, two security is that that’s an issue for people who are remote email preservation? I mean, these things well, it’s, just as we thought about security, yes, i mean, absolute security is an issue, whether your remote or not, but it certainly plays into very much what tools you select, who you’re willing tohave host your files. How you’re going to protect those files. What kind of configuration tresses you need, and so in-kind of determining what i like to call on organizations, collaboration, profile. Um, security security needs a really important part of that. Okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna what’s this collaboration profile. What is that? Well, basically involves assessing your organization to help you choose and configure your tools and make these kinds of communication agreements. And so, you know, because not every organization is going to have the same needs and so questions to consider our you know, how many staff do you have? How many time zones are you working across? How many different roles are functions? Are people fulfilling? Is it just staff that your systems are going to be set up for? Or is it do you also need to include program participants are volunteers in your information systems, you know? And then there are some organizational culture. Things like janine was getting at about, you know, is email going to be the best way i would like to be on the phone or, you know, those kinds of work style questions. And then, as you noted, their security security questions, like, what kinds of information are we storing in transferring? Does it contain any personally identifiable information that may need to be protected and, you know, subject to regulate regulations like hippa or others, you know, is your organization or are your partners? And participants potentially targets of information breach attempts by political enemies. I mean, it sounds a little weird, and i don’t think that but it’s really, depending on the kind of work you’re doing exactly very real. Exactly. So that’s all all of those factors go into choosing. What are the most appropriate tools? Okay. Your communications protocol? Yes. Okay, janine, you want to take us to one of the other one of the topics you mentioned, like conferencing or file sharing or calendars? Uh, let’s talk about calendar going ok, please do i love calendars? My organization works in three different time zones right now, and, uh, we are currently using google calendars, and but i think the same principles that i’m about to talk about what applied teo, if you’re using outlook or many of the other calendar ring systems that are available. But i really can’t imagine being ableto work with other people, especially across geography, without being able tio very quickly and very effectively see when people are available and, you know, not have to like talk about negotiate meeting time. And you can also get us not only when people are available, but you can. Also, get a glance of what people are doing, and you get so much information from being able to view someone’s calendar um, sametz it’s okay, anything you want to add on a calendar, i mean, just that it’s sometimes it can be a struggle to actually get people to use an electoral elektronik counter that’s, not your organization or culture. And so that’s one of the changes that you’re really gonna have too many murders, there was a heavy side were story around that are well, yeah, i do have a story around that, actually, because when we moved over to using teo for when we moved over to having our entire organization using the calendar, it was a bit of ah, push because people are really attached to their paper calendars. There’s something about having the tactile feel, a planner that people really didn’t want to let go of and even still, you know, r executive director, she doesn’t manage her own calendar and that’s, this is kind of a system where everyone has to participate. Otherwise it doesn’t work, and we only have one exception and it’s because that staff person has an entirely other staff person. To manage a calendar for her s o it really does. That is this is somewhere it’s great. And also you need everyone’s cooperation with it for it to work. Okay, let’s, look at, uh, what about file sharing? That sounds like a pretty big, pretty big topic. I want to start off. File sharing doesn’t matter. I mean, you’ve just gone through this big file sharing change, okay, so my organization was using an internally managed file server and we’ve grown a lot over the past few years. So before really similar to what lisa had described earlier, we were one location with one person working out of their home office, and they would connect into the server via a vpn and it was okay. But as we’ve grown over the past few years, we’ve expanded into a satellite office, three different time zones, and now a third of our staff are working outside of that main office and the connection people were just not able to access their files, and it was just really, really awful sze really difficult for people. And so we we made the decision to move teo cloud file sharing it’s been a really good decision for us, especially because hyre, you know, it’s, our remote staffer, just so thrilled. It is a transition that required a lot of communication with staff and training and ongoing support. So even though our migration is done, the work is certainly not over with it. And it’s definitely that situation where it was not as easy as the vendor head or originally express there’s a lot more that went into it way have to think a lot about the learning curve. Yes, on dh training time, etcetera. Good. Well, that these the learning curve in the training are very important, but it’s also really changing people’s habits about where they keep their files. I mean, if you have a situation like that janine’s organization where you can’t access the vpn reliably so you just start storing all of your working documents on your hard drive. Then when you fixed the situation and get a centralized file repository that works, people are still in the habit of keeping things locally and getting them to remember to file documents centrally when they’re finished getting them, too. Be familiar with e centralized file structure so they can find the things they need, getting them out of the habit. I mean, i don’t know if this was happening to eugene, but when i was the operations director in this kind of situation i would get requests for from people for me to go on the server and email them. A file if they were outside the office and as you can imagine, that’s a it’s, a it’s challenging from a time management perspective for everyone to have to do that. But once people are in the habit of it, it could be hard to get them to stop. Okay. That’s. Excellent. That’s encouraging. How do we how do we get the the universal buy-in that we need? Janine? You mentioned it for the calendar ring. Essential, but obviously essential for file sharing, too. I’m thinking mostly of the structure. Like somebody some. Maybe you do this collaboratively. You come up with the literal file structure or does one person impose it and say this way? Believe this. I believe this makes the most sense. And so please comply. Oh, man. I mean that’s a really hard one. What did your tio thoughts? Well, when i initially started this conversation with people on the organization, i asked them what, in an ideal situation, what would they get out? What would they be able to do? What would be a great situation for them? And i think by starting the conversation that way, people felt like they had some say and then whatever the new solution, wass and not only that it really helped that i had buy-in fromthe leadership at my organization, there was a very clear signal to staff that this is the direction that we were going in, and people have to get on the bus, so yeah, okay, so some collaboration and some some input gathering, but in the end, somebody’s gotta decide and everybody’s gotta gotta agree pretty much. I mean, participate, even if you don’t agree. Yeah, yeah, disagree and commit is okay, but i think that i mean, what i have, what i often recommend two clients is that one person, the kind of the point person on the file migration project, whoever that is, should be someone who is really familiar with all of the organizational files, and they kind of come up with the top level structure that makes sense and is aligned with the way the organization works. But then, as you drill down deeper, you know, everyone people have tohave dominion and control over their most direct area of work files, because if you try to impose a taxonomy on people and it doesn’t work for them, it’s chaos and they will rebel, so autonomy is important, okay, at least at the the more granular level. Yes, ok, yeah, i mean, the important thing is really that there are some principles that are clear and communicate a ble to everyone. You’re never everywhere. Clients always come to me and say, we want an intuitive file directory and it’s like, well, you can’t have that, because what’s intuitive for one person is not into it for somebody else to, as long as you’re working off some clear principles that everyone can agree on. That’s what you want, four. Okay, gene, anything you want to add to the file sharing conversation. All right, now think. Well, we have child jack, one of the issues around chatting some people don’t like to log in to chat, you know? And i think that for me and the organizations that i’ve worked in the most effective uses of chat or when people are just in the habit of logging in in the morning so they have theirs, the presence, visibility indicator, you know, i’m here, i’m not here yet, i’m in a meeting, you know, and that is a really, really easy way to communicate your co workers where you are and if you’re available. But again, it’s a big habit shift for some people. I mean, i was doing in-kind part time gig at a very, very large organization with two offices and like, i mean, twenty thousand people in the whole organization and a hundred people in my kind of immediate department, and there were a few people who just never logged and it’s, like i saw this person i know she’s here, but her chad says that she is, you know, presence unknown, and so, you know, you can’t make people, unfortunately, what do you end up doing? And this could have lied beyond chat. Any of the any of the areas. We’re talking about. What you do with the people who are recalcitrant. Anybody who has a suggestion, what do you do? I mean, there’s a whole methodology of change management. I mean, it’s a whole field of study. And so i think that, like, any technology project, but particularly justin collaboration, really delving into change management and having a plan for it, which involves communication training, reinforcement oppcoll, you know, it’s it’s complicated. Okay, well, that’s, that’s an important thing to know anything more gin, anyone i’ll just echo that nothing people to change their habits is really it can be really difficult. Or, you know, a lot of times people at my organisation will log in, but they won’t update statuses, so oh, i’ll just wonder, wow, is that person unavailable all day? All day there and available? I’m not going to be interrupting them and something really important if i i am not, um but it’s, i think i will say that for the people that use it, it is great. Okay, so ah, good outcome is definitely achievable again. Yeah. I mean, i have one. I think my kind of most successful change management story is very, very small. But at an old employer, one of the things that i had to do was get people to fill. Out their online time sheets and no one wanted to do it because that’s a slog and it is, you know, they perceive it as a waste of time, and it kind of is except that i was in charge of the bookkeeping and i couldn’t allocate our totals for the month properly and closed the books until everyone in the organization and filled out their time sheets. And so reminders didn’t work. Nothing worked until, you know, and this i think this’s particular indicative of small organizations where people really have each other’s backs is i just such everyone i was like, look, you guys, you’re making my life a lot harder, there’s this crucial task that i can’t do and prevents us from getting accurate financial reports, and you’re making my life frustrating because you’re not doing this, and that was the thing that got people to do it all right, some guilt. I like to think of it more as a personal connection way a accountability to your co workers, and he was getting them to really understand why they had to do this piece of bureaucratic work that it actually had meaning in the organization it wasn’t just a piece of bureaucratic work. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very much, ladies. Thank you. Thank you. My guests have been lisa jervis, principal consultant for information ecology and janine shimatsu specialist at forward together. Non-profit radio coverage of and tc non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen. Thanks so much for being with us attorney. State to and files faraway coming up. Sorry, i can’t do live listener love were pre recorded this week, but of course the love goes out. I just can’t identify exactly where it’s headed to by city and state or country. But the live listen i love, of course, does go out. Podcast pleasantries are over ten thousand wherever you are, whatever device. Thank you so much for being with us in the time shift and affiliate affections. Always sending affiliate affections to our stations and listeners on affiliate stations throughout the country. Very glad you’re with us little about pursuant, you know they do full service fund-raising from web only for small and very small and midsize shops up to on site campaign counsel for those other five percent who might need that fund-raising obviously constant challenge essential to you to get your work done. I routinely here on get questions about how can we bring our fundraising for the next level? 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What is a solicitation? The examples i gave, like email and u s mail those air solicitations in just about everywhere u s mail is a solicitation guaranteed every state. Ah, no state is goingto make exception for u s mail. Email is so ubiquitous and it’s ah, solicitation in so many states that you might as well just consider email a solicitation everywhere there are some states that haven’t caught up with technology, not like email is anything i can’t even i was anything new, but there are states that who’s legislatures, you know, haven’t codified whether email is a solicitation, but it isn’t so many states. I think you should just consider it also, if you’re hosting events in different states, if you are buying ad space in publications, in other states, these air, all solicitations and you need to be registered with the state authorities everywhere is that you are soliciting. Um sometimes i’m asked why this is important and you know why i bother? It is true that there aren’t that many enforcement actions enforcement is rare, but your irs form nine ninety hopefully you’re filing that each year that is signed under penalty of perjury by an officer, and it enquires about your compliance with thes state laws. So that’s, the irs enquiring about state law compliance on also your board is potentially liable. Jean takagi and i have talked about this. They are fiduciaries to your organization and if you’re not in compliance with laws, your board could board members individually could potentially be liable. So please pay attention to charity registration. It’s on my web site, you go to tony martignetti dot com. You see a tad for charity registration cause i do this work. You could do it on your own too. I have a book about it. You could check it out at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony. Take to tony’s. Take two it’s it’s ah it’s a it’s. A possessive latto plural. But it’s not tony. Take two that’s tony’s. Take two for friday thirty first of july thirtieth. Show of twenty fifteen here’s tom oberg recorded at ntcdinosaur moving into the cloud. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen it’s hosted by and ten the non-profit technology network. We’re in austin, texas, at the convention center. My guest is tom wolber he’s, an independent strategic technology consultant. And his workshop topic is moving your files to the cloud. Options. Obstacles and obligations. Sounds a la menace on the obligation side. Tom oberg. Welcome. Thank you. We’ll get to talk about all three. We got plenty of time together, so maybe it’s. Not so ominous, but there’s, obviously, things that you thinking about. Lots of things are in the clouds. Why might files make sense for a non-profit, you know, for a while emails sort of in the big thing to move the cloud and that’s dahna that there’s been a lot of good options for doing that? And as people have been more comfortable with moving to the cloud and using tools that both from in their personal lives and in their work lives, um, it’s it’s started to make sense to have their files available, maur remotely in various places and to be able to get access to things beyond the walls of their their office and the tools available do that have been involving and getting better as well. So the other piece that’s made this start to happen is it for a lot of smaller organizations who may have had big file servers, those take a lot of effort to keep moving, and as your file server needs to be upgraded, our updated one option is to say, you know, we’re just not going to do that anymore and pay those costs. We’re going to move our files to the cloud and be able to access things i’m a little bit a little bit easier could also be a distributed environment. You might be have employees who are off site virtual organization and that made that maybe a stimulus. Also, it isthe yeah, in our session this morning, we had a lot of that was one of the things we talked about, why why do this? Why are people doing it? And it ran, you know, there are a lot of different reasons, but, you know, some people said, well, we have sixty locations where we’re trying to have people work and tryingto have sixty servers or one server that everybody tries to get into remotely it’s just it’s very hard. So if they khun you something like office three, sixty five or google drive or drop box or box, that could be really good option. Okay? And when we talk about some of the tools you later on, ok? Yeah, all right, because i don’t want to ask you anything that you didn’t prepare for your your workshop, but if we could talk about some of tools that will be helpful. Yeah, how do we start to make this plan? Well, is there anything more you can say? About how we shouldn’t what we should be thinking about to decide whether this makes sense for us as an organization. Yeah, we’re questions we should be asking, yeah, maybe yeah, there’s, there’s lots of questions on dh lots of that was sort of in my presentation, the whole obligations, things like how do you how do you not make your staff cry? That was that was what we were talking about because you don’t want to make him cry. That’s, that’s sort of a rule at number it’s and and doing this kind of project moving files from where people are used to getting them to someplace else can freak people out a little bit. Eso, you know, how do you do that in a good way? And so the organization first, like you’re saying, needs to figure out why why do we want to do this? What? Why does this make? Is this a good idea for our organization? And again, it could be a lot of different things, but but often it’s about doing it in a way where we can get access to the things we need to be able to do our work and meet. Our mission do it in a way where people can get at things from wherever they are and that they can have some assurance that the files they’re working with are the ones they should be working that it’s not, you know, there’s one on my my documents folder and there’s. Another one heard another one there. So what’s ah what’s our next step we are we ready to think about what tools they are be appropriate to do this after we’ve made. We’ve now made our decision that we’re it’s going to be beneficial to us. Yeah, yeah, i think if you know if the organization said okay, this is this the direction we’re going to go part of what i was talking about was, you know, it’s it’s more than just a thing to do, it’s a project and so having a plan a project plan is is is really important, and part of that is the is the tool selection, and we can we can talk about that. Some of the other things that that really need to be thought through are things like what’s, the timeline that that you’re going to use to do this kind of project. Who are the people who are going to be involved in it? Are we going to try and do it in house? Are we goingto use consultants to help out? And we’re going to have, you know, certain teams that are going to be kind of internal champions. They’re going to help help do this, which is something i recommend people doing. So you get some early buy-in from some key people and maybe keep teams or something, if, you know, if the accounting department has an accountant who thinks this is a good idea, it’s going to go a whole lot smoother than if you don’t have somebody there doing okay, so yeah. So some key key allies? Yes, indeed, indeed. Makes this kind of thing much, much easier. Okay, yeah, go ahead. So, yeah. So then we can talk about tools if you want to move to that. Some of the options. Yeah, go ahead. Let zoho you mentioned office three sixty five. Google docks. Obviously. Dr google drive drop box box box is his box of variation of drop box. It’s not. And we have to be a little careful because we’re here in austin. And what i didn’t know before i came here is that this is the home of box. So box is is a company that that has a tool that is sort of like dropbox, the differentiation i’ve heard before is that drop box kind of started as a consumer tool and box started as more of a corporate organisational in-kind of tulle and they’ve they’ve kind of met in the middle a little bit. The box offers more consumer stuff drop box now has drop box for business, but bso boxes here, there now is box one x or two or three they’re not triple x are they are not as far as i know, just one ex, okay? Just once we’re in the booth next to flux and their two exes. Well, but boxes only one act, but box is only one issue so people can find it. And yet and they’re here at the conference. And yeah, and so their their tool is something that you can you can download ah, little application that could be on your on your desk top so you can synchronise things to your desktop. But they’re also is the web interface for it. That’s very, very useful. You, khun, look at the files that air there. You, khun have some viewers where you khun view some files online and you can even beyond the web durney a portion of it. And if you have the correct application on your desk top, it’ll open up the file from the web in your desktop. And then when you do a save, it saves. It back-up down into the web. Big differences you see between dropbox and box, aside from their their culture, where they where they began and how they migrated to the center. Yeah. I think that’s one of the biggest things, one of the things i’ve seen, and we saw this in the in the session this morning is that because non-profits are who they are drop box has been free, just the plane drop box has been free and so people have gotten comfortable using it and, um, use it in organisations, whether the organization knows about it or not. And so what do you mean, how could you be using it if if you don’t know about it? Well, what i mean is that you as an individual employees may have found something like dropbox useful in getting your work done, but the the i t department, if you have one, may not know that you have it on one of the quotes that i put into the session today was that what i’ve found is that people will get their work done one way or another, and that means whether they use the tools you give them with you, with you or against you with you or against you or without you or whatever happens. And so the you know, some problems that non-profits ran into using dropbox is that it’s a personal kind of thing and staff can leave or maybe it’s a volunteer, and then maybe those files disappeared too. And so drop box now has drop box for business, where the organization can have some control. People can still use both their personal drop box and the the business files that are being shared with them. But if they leave the organization, the organization can stop access to those files, so they have some control and box has a similar thing. They just no it’s it’s been a pay service, and so i think fewer non-profits have used it in in the past, but many of them are learning they need some of this control, and that makes both of those both those products useful, and they both have non-profit discounts to i should mention that let’s move to office. Three sixty five yeah, it’s a big one and and partly it’s really big for non-profits right now because it used to be if you’re non-profit you want to kind of move to the cloud, especially with female, the player was google because that was free. You could get google apse for non-profits for free, but last year, microsoft made a version of office three sixty five free for non-profits as well, and so especially for non-profits that are using our windows based oppcoll it isn’t very attractive, offering and it’s basically a big server in the sky that you can interact with so there’s the email piece outlook works very well with it. And then there kind of two parts of the file storage piece. One is called one dr up and one drive for business, and then there’s sharepoint are sharepoint online. It’s the piece that’s, that’s, part of office three sixty five so if you have office three sixty five, you can use both of those tools, at least at this point. What microsoft says is that one drive, which has pretty much unlimited storage, is it’s kind of your new my documents area it’s for you to have your own personal files, and if you want to share them out with someone, you can do that, but by the individual file and then share point is mohr for creating an organizational structure for your documents. So you have document libraries within a sharepoint site and you, khun, you can upload files and have them available to people. In both cases. You, khun synchronize back to your desktop. Also sharepoint been around forever as a server based tool. And in the sharepoint online is the cloud version of it. And it it’s, very powerful. It can take a little bit more set up bonem to be able tio structure everything the way you want it. Do you need to be expert user too? Just to set up a share point? Um, i think office three sixty five in general has fairly easy administrative controls. But the mohr knowledge, you have the mohr functional, you can make it. So having some kind of it t advising on it, i think is good. Whether it’s, an internal person where you’ve maybe sent them to get some training, an external person, whatever, whatever it is it’s, it’s. Pretty straightforward. But there they are things here and there. And with this file piece, we talked about this a lot, and we had a lot of stories come up this morning in the session. There are some limitations of how you need to get your file. If you’re gonna move files into sharepoint, especially there’s. Some limitations you have. To watch for the migration that the whole migration piece there’s. How long are the file names and the directory structures? What kind of files? Khun move? How many can be synchronized back to your desktop? There’s someone, some, some limitations in there that you need to be aware of. Or else you can have some surprises as you move into the process. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m peter shankman, author of zombie loyalists. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hyre what about the document tools in in ofthis three, sixty five word, power point, etcetera? You’re getting sort of, ah, light version of those compared to what you see on your desktop. Yes, you are. But for all of this and especially office three, sixty five, it has been evolving, and they’re putting a great deal of effort into augmenting those tools and making things a cz useful is possible. So dahna, word online, powerpoint online, excel online are very useful, and you can get basic editing done in any of those. If you want to do more things, you know, create a table contents or some of the more detailed document kinds of things. It’s. Easier to use the applications themselves, okay. What about google drive? Yeah, you know, it’s been around a long time, we also when i had people raised their hands about what tools are you using in the organization? The same hands came up for multiple things what’s happening is that all of this has been evolving a lot, and i think people are still trying to get some kind of getting a handle on how to manage files as they go to the cloud so that they’re adopting everything and seeing what works best for them. I think so. And i think it’s ah, it’s this push pull of staff again trying to get their work done and using tools that, you know, maybe they find someone who has shared something with them from another organization and drop box than they put drop box on their desktop so they can do that now they’re using that buy-in but and and so and google drive has been around for a while google docks, and so people are comfortable with it. So it’s one of those ones that that a lot of folks are using it. The quote i had from google and my slide wass for google drive. Was designed to work with google and to me that’s the if there’s a caveat. That’s, that’s the caveat is that it’s best if you want to kind of go all in with google docks and google spreadsheets and, you know, google slides and things like that? Dahna it’s, it’s a little bit easier. Two use other tools if you’re going to use straight microsoft word documents and things like that, you can still store those things in there, but, you know, it’s it’s a little easier to kind of go all in with the google stuff and then and then use those do you see us going to getting to a place where there’s there’s, google doc and there’s and there’s microsoft onda office docks, which would be in which which would be counterintuitive to the way most of computing is going? Yeah, you know, i think they’ll they’ll keep, um, trying to support each other and still trying to keep you know, their own thing so that i mean, there is some way to bring in where documents in into google thing it’s impossible to do it right, but you get the maximum benefit maximum management tools if you’re if you’re using the native? Yeah, native google doc with google drive? Yep. And and so microsoft trying to kind of push you into office three sixty five by doing things like building in access from the word application that you run on your desktop building in dahna a way to grab things from office three. Sixty five directly in there so that that that communication is as easy as possible so that we’ll try and kind of have you worked with all of those all of their tools. What about some obstacles to avoid that za part of your your your topic to yeah. Yeah. This is the ominous part. Wasn’t through with the obligations were no. I said obligations are ominous, but we just start with obstacles. Yeah, yeah, we want to keep it. And really, when i said obstacles, some of what i meant wass things to think through it’s, it’s the issues to kind of think through before you start doing a project, like talking about it. And and so we talked about, you know, sort of the file preparation and migration piece, but there’s other things to think about, too training for your staff. Is going to be, um, a big thing what’s the schedule going to be for people went, when is the change actually gonna happen? People are gonna want to know where their files are. Are they here today and over here tomorrow? And then it didn’t work, and then we’re back over here again. Or how is this? How is this all gonna work and bandwidth? There’s another one that we talked about is we’re talking about the cloud. We’re talking about the internet now where moving files back and forth from, you know, not just on our own network, but through the internet, which we have a little bit less control over, but we can try and have a cz much control as as we can get. So, um, thinking about how good is our internet connection, not just the download speed, but also the upload speed? Because now we’re pushing our changes up. Yeah, so that’s important to think through and the other thing that we end up talking to people about is so you’re moving to a cloud, maybe you’re using sales force and office three, sixty five so all of your important data is on the internet what if your dea cell line goes down? Is everybody just done for the day you sent everybody home? Or do you need to think about getting both the d s l line and a cable line and maybe a box that can kind of coordinate the two things? If one goes down, you go to the other and things like that. So trying to think about how we make sure we are online all the time starts to be a kind of ah bigger issue for folks. We haven’t talked about security buy-in thiss was a huge issue when the clouds start to become popular. I don’t see it getting as much attention now, but it’s still important mean, especially we’re talking about c r m our database? Yeah, that could be credit card numbers, dates of birth, lots of personal information. Yeah, i mean it’s, it’s, huge and it’s potentially depending on what you put there. Right? Right. And so there’s. Sort of. Ah, due diligence that needs to be done on whatever vendor you’re going to go with. Microsoft has a whole website about how it treats security in office. Three sixty five we had somebody. Bring up in the session this morning that they had gone with, i think box because it specifically talked about hippa compliance, and that was important to them. Um, you know, we kind of have to agree that the nsa is just going to look at all of it. So i guess we take that out of the picture, but it sort of depends on both your organizational culture and the kinds of data that you’re dealing with to see how important that stuff is. And i will say at the same time, it it’s we need to be thinking about it. And it’s, not a new issue. I still run into places where there’s the file server with a notebook with the password to get into the file server sitting right next to it. So, you know, it’s, it’s, new and it’s old, we’re going to get there. All right? It’s your soul. That sounds like a good place. Stop. Okay. Tom oberg is an independent strategic technology consultant. And you are with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference two thousand fifteen in austin, texas. Thanks very much for being with us. As always, my thanks to everybody and ten, the non-profit technology network, i’m already looking forward to being back there in twenty sixteen, which i believe is san jose, california. You should check out ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference next week, it’s going to be an archive show. That means i am taking the week off. I hope you’ve been enjoying your summer. I have been, and i’m going to again next week. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it at tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go pursuant full service? Fund-raising they’ll hope you find more prospects pursuant. Dot com. Our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. Susan chavez. Dot com on our music is by scott stein. Duitz be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. 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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i am very glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of mass toid itis if i had to hear you say tony, i missed today’s show reach the rural and marginalized osvaldo gomez reveals lessons learned as he used online mobile and cloud technology to improve healthcare outcomes in hard to reach communities. He’s, technology director at upleaf we talked at ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference hosted by the non-profit technology network and ten and discovery visits thes one on one meetings are critical to your prospect research maria simple, our prospect, research contributor and the prospect finder make sure you’re getting the most out of them. She also shares her recommendations for summer conferences throughout the us that will help your prospect research on tony’s take two important legal stuff responsive by opportunity collaboration that working meeting that unconference on poverty reduction that will ruin you for every other conference. Here is osvaldo gomez from auntie si. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference it’s day two were hosted by intend the non-profit technology network and we’re in austin at the convention center. My guest is as valdo gomez he’s, technology director for upleaf. Welcome, osvaldo, thank you for having me, it’s. A pleasure. Your topic is using technology and online communication to reach rural or marginalized populations. Excellent that’s, a riel niche topic before we before we get into it, and we have plenty of time to do that let’s, define the rural and marginalized. How do you consider those? So i think that the most important thing is to understand that. There are lots of populations that could be considered rule. Remember, analyzed the most. The most obvious one is hispanics. There’s, obviously a language barrier. There’s ah, you know, on documentary me grant. So are other circumstances that by default, you assume that it’s a somewhat marginalized population, then when you add up hispanics that live in rural areas, then they kind of have the double warming. Okay? We’re very hard people who are very, very hard to reach exactly online. Kind of off the grid. You all right? Do they have? And this is really dangerous. Got nowhere generalizing about lots of different populations. Exactly. But we’re talking about the hispanic population because the work was with the hispanic access foundation. Yes, correct. Okay. All right. So how can we with with recognizing that were generalizing? Yes. They didn’t have mobile devices largely. So that was very interesting for us to learn. When we started working with the project, we realised that the the word three things that could help us first is online communication. Because because you are it’s, a nationwide effort, it’s really hard to get to everyone in person. And there was a grassroots component to it also yes, there were. I don’t want to take you off your way have plenty of time don’t want and so they it was hard to get to everyone in person and they was also expensive to get to everyone through attritional media. If you do tv it’s very expensive. So the obvious choice was to go online. Okay, online number one. Exactly. Then the next one is mobile devices and mobile devices helped us. No, no, not just in the front and just, you know, because people like you are saying there’s a high incidence of smartphone use there is there’s there’s good penetration? Yes, even among the marginalized in rural. There is this ok and then but it didn’t also didn’t on ly helped us there. But it also helped us in the back in for us to actually run the operation. So when we were doing aggress receive into then it made sense to have the staff that was running the event using in their case it was ipods and using a mobile device because it allowed them to do data entry on this part. Okay, so for the back end also there was that there. Was online. And then is there a third of that is yes. Oh no eso so we said online communication and we say mobile devices, the third big part of this was clouds services, okay? And that is kind of the perfect pair for mobile devices, because then you have this holy infrastructure of this whole team on a national level connected and connected are low cost, which was really important because obviously it’s a non-profit it’s, not unlimited funds. And so those three things were the ones who allowed us to really reach this population. And what we proved with this project was that using online communication, mobile devices and cloud services, you can effectively reach rural or marginalized populations at a national level with a very small core team on a low budget. Alright, very exciting. I love i really i love the niche so let’s dive into it. What were the first steps? So what we did was essentially use a whole host ofthe tools to get to do to do this. We didn’t discard mass media. Well, let me ask you first, what about assessment? Determining where the people are, what they’re levels of connectedness are well, that was easy. There’s there’s a lot of information about distribution of hispanics and in our presentation, there’s a very cool map that shows you the share of the population for county that is hispanic. Ok, so there’s this’s and this is all in the us exactly, and and that the census is of the first go to place, and then it’s very easy to flag where to go, but in their case what they did, because obviously this has to be funded, so they had to prove the concept. And so they started in houston with one community, and when it went really well there, then they expanded to five communities and then more and more, and then four years later, they’re reaching eighteen states in the united states. Obviously, the goal is to get toe all state offgrid taken incremental with a community and then a bunch of states which is that’s a big leap on praveen eighteen states exactly and it’s very important to prove to the donors that the money’s will spend that you’re doing a good job, and so they’ve been doing that very effectively, and i think that the those eighteen states have bean chosen based on you know where you’re going to have the biggest impact. Of course states like texas, california winning first, how were they able to measure? And we can go? We can come back to this later on just you’re just sort of overview. How were they able to measure outcomes or definitely had an impact? The biggest tool that they used was a sales force system on this system was what the field team used. We’re on their ipods on the field, and it was what the people in washington had also available in this system runs the entire operation. And so everything that happened if you attended an event that data was entered, if there was ah, say that ran on your show that was logged, and ultimately once you put once you do all that data entry and in a decentralized way so that every user does their part, then because you have an integrated system, it all comes together, and then you can report on it more effective. Okay, so so the outcomes were points of contact. That was one part of it. The other thing was, first of all, we would do we still do post event surveys, so we collect data from people, and we collect data from the speaker about how the event went, how what you learned, and we kind of tried to gauge whether they actually learn the talking points of the okay. All right, so it was more than just a contact. But what was learned exit from the contact of the event, exactly. The other thing that we did make love sense they’ll think what it was a huge population study to evaluate whether not only they learned because there’s through three stages for for behavior to change, you have to have knowledge about, you have to know that there’s a problem, you have to be motivated to change, and then you have to have access to the resources you need to change. And we’ve been addressing all three but to be able to prove that the last one, the access and the action took place and we need it to we needed to do a study. So we did, and we proved that when you were able to educate people through a grassroots event with a community leader that they trust and kind of build that knowledge and create the position of risk. For example, we did a one big part of what we did was cancer, breast cancer and colon cancer prevention. Yeah, i was going to ask you about what some of the messages were, but go ahead, we’ll get to that. Yeah. And so for that you have to actually make sure people got tested screened exactly. Eso this study allowed us to prove what the success rate wass and, you know, out of all the people that attended this event that received the information, the motivation and was made available resource is for them to go get tested. How many actually did get this all right? And the results were very good on dso we’ve bean just building on that and improving over the years to make sure that that we reach us many hispanics as we can. Okay, really cool. And of course, you mentioned sales force. You’re doing this on a low budget sales force, of course, donated except for non-profits i think it’s up to ten licenses, i believe. Yes, that right salesforce’s free for non-profits. Well, the first and licenses are donated, and then you get a huge discount for the one after that, okay, it’s huge on for these organization in particular. So far, they’ve received three hundred three, six thousand dollars worth of donations part of that or most of it from sales force. But a lot of that also from google through the google non-profit program they run google ats donated by ghoul okay, one hundred percent you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way so let’s, talk about some of the tools that were used, so we’re we’ve we’ve touched on sales force. Yes, dribble used ripple. Yes. That’s that’s a quaint listeners, maybe more, probably more familiar with word preston droop a lso. Explain what dribble is drew police, a condom management system platform and it’s being used very widely. The white house website is built on drew people really and so it’s, very popular and very robust and it’s amazing the nuggets you can learn on non-profit radio. The white house platform is not is not word press or even customized. It’s ah, droop a little bass. Yeah, all right. And so there was non-profit radio. I’ve been telling you for years. Listen to me. Listen to osvaldo. And so the main thing is, whenever we chose the technology was is it open source? Or is it donated or discounted? Because no, the savings are remarkable and so do people was what we used for the front end sales force for the back end. But then they also because this is a distributed team throughout the country. They needed to be able to claret. And so again with a google for non-profit. Program, they were able to get google maps for free and so their e mail their calendar, they can do hangouts and collaborate and and also have a share, dr using google drive and so using all of these tools, they’re able to stay in touch, to stay connected on to coordinate. And this goes not just to do the core team in washington, but they also gave ipods to the field team to the community and faith based leaders in the community so that they could stay connected with this network. So they expanded their teams through volunteers essentially very, very effectively, through the use off the mobile of isis on the clock services and, of course, online communication to distribute the information. All right was was was more of the communication mobile based than than online because because there’s a greater penetration of mobile devices than there is desktop and laptop computers. So what we try to do is i mean, i guess i mean mobile native or was it was a more online and then mobile mobile optimized exactly that’s the that’s the the key because of cost it’s very for non-profits it tends to be prohibited. To have a nap for every platform. Especially when you have to. Do you know it’s andre for so many different devices. And so web apps or web solution’s make more sense. Okay, okay. Let’s, turn to the grassroots component of this. Because that was important. A huge yeah. Very important was not just online with, i guess local community organizations that are trusted in the low in the local place. Exactly. And trust that he’s a key word. Because, you know, an undocumented immigrant is probably not going to trust on outsider to come and tell them. Let’s. Let’s, gather you all in this room right now and talk to you. And so being able to reach them through the church that they attend, or through the community center in their community that they already trust. And the people eating there that they already trust andi, instead of having an outside and talk to them, have the leaders that they already know talk to them about the specific topic was very, very, very important. So the organization try to engaged these leaders on dh. Right now, the network is two thousand people strong throughout the united states about more. Than two thousand leaders throughout the united states are connected to this organization engaged by this organization and participate and lead these events that are happening as we speak that’s, the hispanic access foundation. Yes, we’re all the messages about rest in colon cancer. Well, that was part of it. The address they have for areas there’s, education, there’s, health, of course, and the kid. The cancer project, is an example of that. There’s also finance on dh. There is the environment, and the reason why these four are important is because in the case of finance, what, what they realized this. You have to help people improve their lives throughout, if, if there’s, no money, there’s, no health, and so being able to. And the main thing for for immigrants is. Being in the numbers being in the statistics and so submitting your taxes, even if you’re undocumented is huge because if at any point in time, in future there’s immigration reform, you have to have that history that you’ve bean reciting innis they file your taxes compliant for years exactly all right, all right, and that’s a huge thing because there is no tradition in america of doing that. So educating people that in the united states you do have to file tarsus taxes regularly is a big deal. What were the outcomes you were measuring in thie environment, part messages. So the thing about the environment is that when you pull hispanics, they’re all very aware of it. They were aware that you have to preserve the environment, that climate change is important, but many times, even though they want to a lot of hispanics living or been city in urban areas, and they don’t really get out much besides a lot of doing a lot of work and so being able to create a world, especially among the youth, that all these national parks are available to you that you have to take care of them if you go to a national park you take care of. It was very important because he created this more well rounded. How did you measure citizen? How did you measure the impact of those national parks announcements? So the idea is beyond announcements we actually organized tours and took people there. And so the post, sir, the post even survey was very important to gauge how how many people numbers attended the tours and what they’re what they learn and how they felt. Definitely excellent. Excellent. And what about on the education side? Were the messages there? There was a lot about making sure that the people can, first of all, with those very interesting price about distributing books two, two hispanics and creating their habit of off reading of learning. So so that was a big part of it. But i think that the most important take away is that it is possible that a non-profit with a low budget, a small team can really use thes three tools online communication, mobile devices and cloud services to reach very hard to reach populations effectively. Yeah, excellent. All right, now we still have a good amount of time left. So tell us were there any other tools besides the a dribble sales force and and the google maps that were that were important? Yes, so they’ve used a whole whole host of things. So one one, because this is all valuable, i mean, even if you’re not trying to reach rural and marginalized pompel definitely in terms of low cost, valuable, you know, really helpful tools for for non-profits we’ll definitely yes, whatever whatever work you’re engaged so well, what else was valuable? So they important thing i think we think sales force the top exchange what the application store that they have is very important because there’s a lot of free it’s, a sales force petition store, the ap exchange, okay, okay, and they having these aps available for free was huge because it allowed us to expand the infrastructure and do more things than what the course ellsworth system can do at a very low cost. The most important one for them was project management, and you can imagine running in national operation with a bunch of volunteers spread throughout the country, how hard it could be if you don’t have the system in place to manage every little to do and organize things and so there’s a free up in the ap exchange called milestones, pm milestones milestones piela all right, there’s, a free program management tool that you can just installing your in yourself was application and having it in one system was huge. There are others that are there’s. A lot of you know is outstanding to me because first of all, sales force is free. First ten first, ten licenses so let’s do. Our audience is small and midsize non-profits excesses him. They probably don’t need more than ten licenses, but anyway, but then there’s a deep discount beyond that. But then the then the everything in the ap exchanges free. Well, not everything but a lot of it, but just wanted this project management, which is again called milestones being ostomel p m free, so free sales force and then free add on and obviously valuable because it’s, managing a project of two thousand volunteers across eighteen states, exactly really outstanding. What what other tools can you share? So the other thing that we did was looking for whatever was donated, open source or discounted and so in terms of email marketing, very good. Response has a at that point, when we started, i think they’ve changed a little bit recently, but they had this donation program that you would get the first ten thousand emails for free and so for them it made sense to start without because it gave them a in an instant saving, even if they had to pay for the extra write emails he gives them gave them just like socials gives you this instant push, and so but the beauty of it is that it integrate two cells were so they could go toe one place and do everything they needed to do so. Vertical response there’s an app in the exchange from vertical response that allows you to integrate it into cells. Whores it’s remarkable that’s outstanding these air this a great great resource is really alright. I’m adding vertical responsible list now that’s that’s um that’s! Excellent! What else could please more? What else should we use? Share don’t don’t hold back with tools are there so i think that they being able to when you, when you combine all the key tool that i think it’s very important to understand that they would didn’t exist. A few years ago is this mobile devices in the case, in their case, the ipod and they they had ei paso were connected to a cell network so they could be moving around and doing that entry. But even if, even though it’s not donated or free having a tool for a relatively low budget that you can distribute two people, you know, remote for them to work remotely is huge and being able to use all of the other tools sales for his google labs and all this stuff through this device really empowers people on what we saw was, you know, a pastor that’s, sixty years old and had never had access to a device like this, getting training and having so much enthusiasm for learning to use this tool and then realizing that it really helped them, even if it was a little scary at the beginning, it really helped him do what he wanted to do, which is help people. All these people, they’re not any for the money, obviously. So they really want to help people. And when you give him a tool that allows them to help more people, they just love it. Love that of the story of the pastor let’s spend a little time our last couple minutes on lessons learned on the the and the grassroots level, so we talked a lot about the digital onda technology side let’s talk about the the personal side, the people side of the grassroots work, some lessons learned there, yes, so the key thing for us was don’t go it alone, partner, and the profits are very good at doing that partnering, but in this particular case, it’s key because you can’t go into a community that is already a little off the grid and pretend to be an outsider and be heard and access people, and so being able to to go to get to these community through people they trust was very, very, very important. Now, these people also need to be able to trust you as an organization. And so a lot of the work that the spending explanation did was reaching out to these pastors, getting them into a room on dh, showing them everything that was in the works. Everything that we’re doing, this is our this is even how we’re handling data. This is how we’re handling privacy if we collect data from an undocumented immigrant, we’re not sharing that with anyone and creating that trust between the organization and the leader was important because if the leader trusts you, then the committee trusts you and i think that’s the biggest takeaway from this there there vouching for the larger organization exactly local leaders are vouching for exactly they’re putting their name on the line. And so they want to know that you are really for real trust critical both between the organization and the leader and the leader and and the people. And then you’ll get the third you get the third leg of the triangle between the people and the organization, exactly, little by little. And then okay, well, then i would say, and then the messages will be trusted except by little. Sounds like there’s something there? Yeah, so? So even so, we’ve been at it for a few years on dh. What we’ve seen is that you go in the first time pastor or the priest, in some cases, partners with youand brings people in and educates people the first time the attendance might not be. You might not feel the room the next time you do, on the following time, then they they asked for, and i think that there’s a real need for information people just don’t really they don’t feel comfortable asking for it. Yeah, all right, but but they they open up? Yes. Okay, we have another like minute and a half or so. What else? On the personal? The grassroots organizing side. Other other lessons there? Well, the other thing is don’t be afraid to use technology. This story about the pastor that was kind of scared of the beginning. It was very easy for everyone at that point to say, well, let’s, just not do that let’s go to back to paper latto pencil on paper, but that has a huge cost over the long term, especially for you to actually measure impact and don’t and so don’t don’t not being afraid off putting people out of their comfort zone and telling them let’s, do this let’s do it together and it’s okay is important. And i think that that was a big lesson for for me, because a technology guy, i thought, everybody, we’re going to say, just say, yeah, sure, that’s it, andi, wasn’t it? Took some convincing but beeper system because ultimately, once they get used to it, then it becomes something that they can’t work without. Oswaldo gomez, technology director for upleaf very inspiring story that’s outstanding. Thank you very much for sharing. Well, thank you for having me at my pleasure. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fifteen. Thank you so much for being with us love the story that he shared lots of valuable information, even if you’re not trying to reach the rural and marginalized, but just about free and very low cost resource is excellent. One let’s do live listener love and let’s start abroad. Seoul, south korea always with us gratefully. I’m very, very grateful. Anya haserot soul guangzhou, china ni hao, we’ve got jakarta, indonesia very glad you’re with us live listener love to jakarta and tokyo, japan also very frequent listeners. Konnichi wa in bangladesh, we’ve got listener in dhaka i’ve been there. I spent a day in old dhaka but spent several days in ah in the capital generally welcome dhaka and also in brazil. Camp in ious live listener love how about domestic ridgefield? New jersey. My dad used to teach in richfield ta ta ta ta ta ta. Instrumental music in the elementary schools in richfield, new york, new york. Thank you very much for being with us. Cranford, new jersey, hubert, north carolina and oxford, maine. And i believe oxford main maybe. Read stockman. He was tweeting that he is listening in maine that maybe read live listener love main north carolina, new jersey, new york. Thank you very much for being with us. Tony stayed too. And the open movement coming up. Uh, pardon me. The discovery visits air coming up. See, i need an intern so i could blame someone when i make a mistake like this. Tony’s take two and discovery visits coming up. Where’s the intern to blame. But first i got to talk about opportunity. Collaboration. It’s ninety three percent sold now. It’s, thea unconference in x top of mexico for non-profits around the world grantmaker zoho social impact investors, venture capitalists, academics and companies. If you’re working to reduce suffering anywhere in the world, you need to be at o c. There are no plenary speakers. There’s no power points. Every session is in a circle. Obviously collaborative three hundred fifty people and there’s lots of time. Deliberately set aside for meeting each other. I was there last year. I’ll be there in october. I did get my reservation in opportunity. Collaboration dot net. The video this week is a new entry in the non-profit radio knowledge base. Important legal stuff. Jean takagi. You know who he is? Our legal contributor and the longest running contributor to non-profit radio uh, four years. He’s been with me four years. He’s, the principal at the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. That’s his, you know, that’s, part time gig. But most of the time he spends with non-profit radio he’s been with the show. As i said four years and i chose the best stuff from his four years. And i added it to our knowledge base. And the video is at tony martignetti dot com that’s tony’s take two for friday tenth of july twenty seventh show of the year. You also know maria simple she’s, the prospect finder, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor. Prospects now, she’s. A diet of dirt, cheap and free. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria. Maria so i give this screen here. How are you? Where you been? What’s going on there? What do you think? That’s? Too much that’s. Too much. I had myself on mute while you were doing on minute announcements there. Sorry about that. Um, i’m glad you’re with me. Welcome back. Absolutely. Thank you. Pleasure. We’re talking about discovery visits today. These, uh, he’s let’s, define the discovery visit. And then once you explain why you think they’re so critical, the prospect research well, you know, as prospect, researchers, unfortunately, we don’t have access to every little piece of information that would be useful for you. As you’re thinking about cultivating or soliciting someone so actually sitting down face to face with a donor is going to yield so much insight about what motivates them, why they love your organization and potentially yield larger gifts for you down the road. I blogged this a while ago, and it may be one of the first times that you and i met online because you commented on it. But i don’t think you were on the show at this point. But i blogged the value of face-to-face meetings and i was not. Diminishing prospect research online and all through all the resource is that you and i have talked about from chambers of commerce and libraries toe online resource is wasn’t diminishing those, but yeah, the value that you get from having lunch with someone i happen to like doing it over meals, but whether it’s over meals or a meeting in their office or a site visit to your place, those could be great buy-in you just pick up so much just by talking to somebody for for an hour? Yeah, yeah, and and definitely even in the body language alone. So you start steering that conversation in a certain direction, and you see people getting uncomfortable or fidgety or ah, in the opposite way, if maybe they start leaning in and leaning forward and looking like they’re really engaged with with what you’re talking about, perhaps a new program that you’re looking toe launch and get funded, all of that can yield so much great information for you. Sometimes it could be a little awkward. You hear things that you, you’re not sure how to document, and we’ll talk about the importance of doing that, like, you know they don’t really like the ceo or your boss? You know, are there glad that you’re at the lunch with them and not this other gift officer? Yeah, and you do have to be careful about that. How you document that? Because, you know, a donor does have the ability to walk into your organisation at any time and say, let me see what donorsearch crowds you have on me. So you think you would want to document it in as a subject in an objective manner i should say objectively think of yourself as a a nen vested gate of reporter, right? When you’re trying to write down what the comments were so you might, you know, just right, you know, they did not seem particularly interested in the new x y z program and period end of story. Now we’re talking about the documentation it’s critical to save this in your hopefully have a cr m database, right? A donor database, cr m someplace this has tio this information you know, it’s what we call, i guess institutional memory, right? And you’re not going to put me in jargon jail for that? Are, you know, that’s a pretty straightforward one. Okay, i don’t join you for a while if you as a development officer or is an executive director, sit down and have a conversation with someone, and then you decide to leave the organization a year later. Ah, and then the new person takes over and goes in and has a visit with this long time donor sort of starts asking that same set of questions that donor’s going to kind of look at him like, don’t you already know this? Because i’ve already talked to your predecessor about what my interests were, etcetera. So you really do need to make sure that you are taking, you know, the time and it’s time well worth, you know, spent just documenting what happened during the conversation. What were the critical point? What were the things that need to be followed up on? You know, maybe it’s a timing issue, maybe they say, well, you know what? This is a really bad time for my family right now, but in two years we feel that our finances will be in a different situation, you’ve got to get that documented and that’s an ideal example of one of the many, many things that you’ll find out from talking to somebody that you’ll never find online or any other resource is it’s talking, you gotta you gotta drop people out and and they love your work, otherwise they wouldn’t be meeting with you, so they’re happy to talk about what it is they love how, how their situation can impact your organization. I mean, positively or negatively, you know, like you’re saying, this is not a good time for us, you know, we just had a downturn in my business or from death in the family or, you know, whatever i mean, stuff you’re not going to find out anywhere else than talking to people, you’re absolutely right. And, you know, one of the interesting things, too, is you sometimes when i’m having conversations with with a non-profit maybe it a networking event or at a conference or something, and i’ll last generally how is your fund-raising going and then steer the conversation towards you know, well, you know, when was the last time you had a chance to meet with who you would consider to be your top ten donors? And they kind of look at you like, uh, am i supposed? To be regularly meeting with donors. Oh, boy. Yeah. That’s ah, that’s yeah, that’s where the person in charge of development needs to be stewarding and managing up the, you know, the sea level people and that maybe that’s only one person may be the ceo is executive director is all there is but that, you know, yeah, yeah, you’ve got to be managing up and making sure that these relationships are nurtured with your your most important donors, your most important volunteers as well. Yeah, and if you don’t have the time to do it as a staff member, get your board involved. This is a perfect role for a board to get involved in. Even your board members who say, i hate to ask for money. I’ll do anything for this organization. Just don’t make me ask for money and it’s so simple for them to just go in and have it it’s really a conversation, you know, you can provide them with, you know, prompt them with a list of questions that they might consider asking this individual. But it really is a conversation all about discovering what is this donor-centric about why are they giving any? Money to you at all when you know when did they start and, you know, where do they see themselves going with your organization? As a consultant? I do hardly. And, you know, i don’t i don’t meet with donors and potential donors alone ever and very few of the visits that i am on our discovery visits, you know, where we don’t know the person all that well, but when i was a director of planned giving at a couple of colleges, i should do these all the time, and i remember my head’s spinning with oh, i don’t remember that, but i’m trying to stay in the conversation, too, but you can’t take notes while you’re having lunch, but i remember my head swimming over my gosh, i can’t remember that and that. Oh, and this news about his sister and that relationship, you know? Oh, you know, but there’s so much too, and you get back to the office and you just have to spill it all out, and i agree with you, i usedto have ah, client who said never write anything about someone with potential donor or donor at anybody boardmember that you wouldn’t want them to read basically the same standard you had when you said someone could come in the office any time and ask what you have on them. That’s fine, you know, today with with technology having advanced right, i’m hoping that people who were in those positions that you were holding at that time in the plan giving departments and so forth are using their smartphones and the recording feature not to record the conversation, but afterward, one the meeting has ended, and you’re getting back into your car or getting to a quiet place, you know, in, you know, a different space or something like that. Just data dump it right in by voice because you can speak a lot faster. Most people can speak much faster than they can write or type, so why not just get it in that way? And then if if you needed to, you know, use a transcription service of some sort to then get it into a print format and then edited from there, i think you know, that could be a particularly great way to use technology. Yeah, great. Cool tip. I like that. You’re right. You can dump into a voice memo excellent. I also like your idea of using board members for this purpose idea we’ve we’ve talked about it, but good many times, but good to mention that also, this is ideal for board members for organizations that have a prospect research person, do you think that these contact i’m going to call them contact report? Because as we used to call him at the colleges, right? Should they flow through the prospect researcher? Or should they go right into the c r, m database and then it’s a prospect researchers job follow-up and read them? How does? Because the prospect researcher is the the focal point of a lot of this, the prospect activity? How should this info get to the to that person? Well, you know, it really again depends on the size of the department and the type of cr m that you’re using and who has access to it because some will allow you no board members to have access and others won’t. So then clearly, if it’s your boardmember that needs to be providing the information in many cases, they’re not going to have access two, uh, to that database, so don’t need to get it to that prospect, researcher some other way. If it is ah development officer who does have access to the database. And i do recommend that they inserted directly themselves. If it’s a small organization, if it’s a larger organization with multi level, then, you know, you would want to make sure that there are certain procedures in place for me. No, but certainly the prospect researcher in some way, shape or form should be alerted that there’s been an update to that record in case there’s, you know any additional updated information that they need to provide? Yeah, right. It could be a simple is ah, niu new email address or you are. Whatever a new relationship. Um, i know in the in the colleges where i worked which bigger organizations that the prospect researcher was the like. I said the focal point, and they would pull out something from a prospect research report that would say, oh, you know, i should. This is consistent with this other contact report that i read for this other person done by a different gift officer. And these two need to be talking to each other for whatever reason that was always that was always the done through. The prospect researcher i don’t know is that it makes sense to you. Yeah, yeah. Does absolutely. And i can tell you that, you know, having attended various conferences in the past that are, you know, attended by prospect researchers. They would love to be on every one of these donordigital covering visits, making sure that the right questions get asked and so forth. Okay, so this should be from training there, maybe maybe training the gift officers by the prospect researcher. When again, when it’s an organization that has prospect research. I understand a lot of listeners. Organizations. Problem. May not. But if you do, should there be some training that the prospect researcher was doing for the gift officers? Yeah, absolutely. There should be some sort of training. And in terms of not only what they confined online, if they needed to find some information quickly. What are some of the go to resource is when they’re out on the road, etcetera. But also you know what? Air the typical questions you should be sitting down and asking of every single donor and prospect and, you know ah, good development. Officer, this should really be intuitive and second nature for them. But if there’s somebody fairly new in the role, or if it’s an executive director who is, you know, that that’s, it that’s the only person there is no development officer. Oh, and perhaps they’ve been so very used to running an organization, and on the day to day management of the organization that they really haven’t gone down the road of, of getting trained on, you know, how to ask the right questions to elicit the responses we need to move this prospect forward. We’re gonna go out for a break. Marie and i will keep talking about this a little bit. And then she also has, um, unconference dates coming up this summer. That would be valuable for your prospects, research or stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked, and levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Got more live listeners in san francisco, california live love going out to there now podcast listeners and affiliate listeners. Did you think i forgot? How how could you live? Listener love always is accompanied by podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections very grateful to all the podcast listeners wherever, whatever device, whatever you’re doing love having you with us and all those affiliate listeners in the many stations across the country affections out to r am and fm affiliate listeners perish the thought that i would forget podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections. Maria, any last thoughts you want, leave us with on discovery visits and before we move teo unconference ideas. Well, you know, really, just to figure out what what is a donor’s? Why, right? That that’s, what you’re looking to get to understanding there? Why, um, to the heart of why they’re investing in your organization and, you know, try and use that language when you’re speaking with them, you know, why are you investing in us? What? What motivates you to continue supporting us? What do you like best about our non-profit? And you know what? Can we actually improve? So try and really elicit some good conversation from them and, you know, you’ve probably heard that old adage tony asked them for money and they’ll they’ll offer you advice and asked him for advice, and they’ll offer you some money. So, you know, it’s a great way to get people engaged in your organization, so don’t be afraid to start those conversations, even if somebody proposes something or says something a little bit on the negative side, take it as constructive criticism and look for areas of improvement. Yeah, you’ve got to hear the negative and a lot of what you’re what you’re suggesting comes out organically, you know? I mean, the person knows that you’re there to talk about the organization, you know, they talk about politics or hopefully you keep politics off the table. I always think that’s a bad idea for these kinds of visits, but yeah, they’re talking about the organization that’s, what the two of you have in common, so, you know, a lot of that stuff just gets elicited. I love this program, or i didn’t understand this or i didn’t know you’re doing this thing, but i just read about it in the newsletter and you know that stuff. Uh, i mean, you’re right ask if it’s not coming out, but a lot of times, it just happens organically because right that’s what you have in common. That’s what? You share, right? Right. All right. So, uh, you gots unconference ideas for us? Prospect researchers like to meet during the summer. Yeah, absolutely. So the biggie for prospect researchers is the international conference that happens every summer for apra, which is the association of professional researchers for advancement. And this year, the conference takes place in new orleans. Metoo and it’s going to be july twenty second to the twenty fifth, and they actually also have a new researchers symposium as part of that uh, they have a full day symposium just for new researchers. So this is a great way to get i think, you know, a full day in ah dedicated to a newbie. And, you know, if you’re just getting your feet wet in this whole thing about prospect research, that might be something well worth while attending. Are you going to the international conference? I will not be going this year. I’m actually attending other conferences, but you know, this one is definitely if you’re thinking about prospect researchers this truly is the one to consider. You know there are fall conferences that you know, we just missed a few conferences that are more regional. So, like in new england, there’s, an organization called nedra, the new england development research association, they they had a conference in april was not researchers look okay, let’s not look backwards, let’s go forwards, but but the good thing about it is that some of those organizations will still put the presentation’s in power point on the website so still perhaps worth just checking into even if you book market for next year. If you’re in those regions, certainly something to think about seeing what what have they shared from the past conference cause you might be able to just do a little, you know, your own online learning are these all apra chapters that we’re talking about? Yeah, yeah, they really are there. They’re more regionalized chapters of research association years ago, i spoke a couple of apra chapters, i think in new york and new jersey years ago, back when i know i’m not even sure i was consulting at the time, maybe more than twelve years. Ago, but glad they’re still around. Okay, what else? What else you got besides the international? Also coming up in arizona? There’s going to be a false symposium on the topic of campaigns and that’s going to be held november fifth through the sixth in tempe, arizona, so that might be one to consider and also in california, they have several events going on. The california advancement researchers association has several things on their website, so i’d be glad to share some of these links on your facebook page, if you like and then people can check them out and if they’re in those regions and see if they want to attend. I love it. Why did you do that? As a comment to the takeaways that’ll be posted around four o’clock eastern today? Sure. Okay, that’s outstanding. We still have another minute or so left. What’s ah what’s going on in? Oh, i’m sorry. Are there other conferences or that you got it? That’s covers it. You know, i think because several have already passed. Those were the ones that i really found that i thought, you know, were sprinkled throughout in different places that you might consider going. Tio okay, sounds good. Tell me, uh, yeah, now we just have about a minute or so, right, sam? So what what’s going on in your world, what you’re seeing among your clients in our last minute, you know, well, i’m definitely seeing a tick up in activity, capital campaigns and so forth. So, you know, it’s great to see that that good news came out with e-giving yusa numbers, and i think that that generally just kind of buoys people a little bit and their spirits. So i am seeing more activity and more research request because of these larger campaigns and the need to research some of these high net worth individuals before visiting them. So in general, i think it’s it’s all good news, okay, i’m glad you’re optimistic looks. You’re so upbeat. Andi, you’re going to be back with me in two shows on july twenty fourth for the two hundred fiftieth show. Yes, you’re going to here in the studio. Cool. I will. All right, looking forward to it would be nice to have you institute a sze yu were not made a cz we would say in latin i’m fluent in latin is a worthless skill, but thank you very much. Good to see you. Good to talk to you. Thank you. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter at maria simple. Next week, two interviews from the non-profit technology conference walked to work, walking as part of your work day as an integral part of your work day, not a break from it with beth cantor and re to sharma. Also keep current after launch. Farrah trompeter and kira marchenese help you keep your sight current after a redesign in two weeks as i was just talking about july twenty fourth, two hundred fifty of show five years of non-profit radio, we’ve got giveaways, music with scott stein comedy a new sponsor i’m going to introduce and much more going on two weeks, july twenty fourth, two hundred fiftieth show be with us if you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com opportunity collaboration with world convenes for poverty alleviation, an outstanding unconference that will ruin you for every other conference opportunity collaboration dot net, our creative producer is claire miree off sound. Liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez. Susan chavez dot com on our music is by scott stein yeah, thank you, scotty, for that information with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. 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