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Nonprofit Radio for February 3, 2017: Grow Your Sustainer Revenue & Protect Your Donors’ Data

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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My Guests:

Allison Weston, Chrissy Hyre: Grow Your Sustainer Revenue

(L to R) Hyre & West  at 16NTC

You want more sustainers? We’ve got the formula: Multichannel. Upsell. Benchmark. Avoid attrition. The panel is Allison Weston & Chrissy Hyre, from Chapman Cubine Adams + Hussey, and Sabra Lugthart with The Trust for Public Land. This was recorded at the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference.

 

 

Tracey Lorts & Joshua Allen: Protect Your Donors’ Data
(L to R) Lorts & Allen at 16NTC

You don’t want to be the next headline. You don’t want a fight with a donor over whether you compromised their credit card number. We’ll keep you safe and in compliance. Also from 16NTC are Tracey Lorts and Joshua Allen, both with Greater Giving.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into vou care. Arai assis, if you wormed in with the idea that you missed today’s show, grow your sustainers revenue you want more sustainers we’ve got the formula multi-channel up, sell benchmark avoid attrition. The panel is alison weston and chrissy hyre from chapman, cubine adams and husi and sabra lugthart with the trust for public land, this was recorded at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and protect your donor’s data. You don’t want to be the next headline. You don’t want to fight with a donor over whether you compromised their credit card number. We’ll keep you safe and in compliance. Also from sixteen ntc are tracy lorts and joshua alan, both with greater e-giving tony, take two seventeen and tc responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. Wee bey e spelling dot com here’s, our first panel on growing your sustainers revenue from the sixteen ntc, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference with the convention center in san jose, california. My guests now our chrissy hyre alison weston and several lugthart chrissy is see you’re strategist at chapman, kyu buy-in, adams and pronounce all those hyre directly did even cubine you did? Yeah, i should have asked you before, but we’re rolling now. Alison weston is, uh, also with chapman, cubine adams and yep. Okay, what do you do there, though? Does have a title for you. I’m a digital account executive. Okay. Excellent. And say piela oneaccord is associate director of annual giving at the trust for public land. It was a very simple one. Thank you. We love everything documented here correctly. Thank you. Before we start with shot out swag arse crack item for this interview is from cornershop, cornershop, creative it’s ah it’s vegetables. We’ve got sure that’s an eggplant got tomato stress balls no pair stress ball also. But all the vegetables items are not stress balls. We have a banana pen. We had a chili pepper osili all from cornershop creative. So thank you very much. This goes into our swag. Pile ilsen would you help me budged? And those items put him up front. There we go. Oh, the implant. Okay, but all this way, swag pile. Thank you very much. Okay, ladies. Let’s, get serious about sustainers now, sabre, you have to depart a little early. So when sabelo leaves it’s not because my questions suck or anything like that because you have to go because we’re running a little behind. So let’s, start with you. Make sure you get. Yeah e-giving for some time. What is the problem that non-profits are not getting things quite right with sustaining don’t? Well, first, i’ll preface that i’m a client of cch that’s, right? I think we’ll give my organization has an example before i started working at the trust republic land way just didn’t have a sustainers program in place there nobody we didn’t have a dedicated staff member. Um, well, you know, sustainers air worth so much in revenue. So, you know, we did all of these things we work towards that teo grow our program and really recruit sustainers so i think, really the bottom line is is over time when you build your sustainers program, it just generates so much revenue for your organization so it’s worth focusing on okay, we’re we’re for some reason we’re not what we what we alison, what do we not quite getting right about building our sustainers base? I think a lot of regulations do get some things right. I wouldn’t marry you. What herself not getting quite right, i think you know, a big factor for continued, most like sustainers growth online is continue testing so there’s a lot of things to do with donation forms and, you know, i think once you find something that works, that doesn’t mean it’s going to continue to work. So i think one thing we talked about in our sessions, they was keep testing online and keep holding it on things in your donation form and making sure that, you know, you’re continuing to grow and try new things, okay, chrissy, if you want to add to our overviewing this point, i think, you know, maybe two things that i would add to what these ladies have said that, you know, having organizations make sure that they’re taking a multi channel approach to sustain a recruitment that they’re using all the same channels. That there, soliciting one time, gibson for sustainers recruitment and then really evaluating on the back end. Making sure that once they go to all of the trouble of making sure that folks have become monthly donors, that they’re staying monthly donors. And they’re staying engaged in the organization. Why do you think some organizations aren’t taking st multi-channel approach for sustainers that they are for other types of dahna with what’s happening disconnect? Well, i think that, you know, i think that people get a little bit overwhelmed sometimes by, you know, the number of thing are the kind of logistical set up that it takes to start a sustainers program, and so it seems, i think sometimes like, oh, the easy way to do this would be just to do it online let’s, just sell this through email let’s just do a light box, let’s just do it digital ads, you know? And that seems like kind of an easier kind of entry point into sustainers e-giving whereas you know something like telemarketing, for example, which is what i really focus on with my clients can feel a little bit scarier, a little bit more, a little bit bigger, maybe a little bit tougher to bite off, okay, yeah, i think also for a lot of non-profits data is just a challenge, even just getting everything set up in the back, and i know sabra, you had a lot of leg work to do before you got started so i would say, yeah, just getting your house in order before you can even get started and keeping it in order and keeping your data clean. It’s a big challenge, especially with this scene. E-giving okay, all right, so let’s, start with our multi-channel approach to sustain. E-giving now, of course, we’re talking about monthly monthly. Sustainers is that right? Is that we’re all so everyone’s on the same page, okay, monthly sustainers huh? Our multi-channel approach are we trying to convert existing donors to sustaining or we try to require new donors? Sustainers or both, you can do it all, you can have it all. So, you know, i think that’s sort of the lowest hanging fruit is converting the people who are already connected to your organisation as donors and two monthly givers. I think that a lot of organizations also find tremendous success with kind of warm prospects, online activists and that kind of audience and then certainly alison and sabelo could speak to this, but one of the things we find works really well, digitally is using sustainers e-giving is an acquisition tool. Yeah, so i mean, i think there’s, the biggest factor we’ve seen in converting to see here, has been doing a recent cso like christie said, making sure that you’re getting people that sustaining ask after they’ve made a one time gift anything there’s a lot of ways to do that online, trust me publicly, and they do, you know, a few different things. One of them is a rolling email out to you one time donors, ten days post donations so that’s a good way of you know, reaching out to people when they’re current. In recent donors, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna oppcoll okay, let’s, let’s, drill down. But what does that email saying? Thanks them for their gift? Sabelo what does it say? Yes, so the again the emails sent out ten days after the after donor-centric thank you, basically, thank you very much for your recent gift that builds a case for support of why sustaining gifts are so important and it’s all wrapped around the mission of our organization at the end, it says, would you please consider becoming a monthly donor and that’s about what’s in the mail and a link to click to, of course, yes, all of the links to other clip now, when they get there, do they also get a written acknowledgement for their one time give if in our organization, if they give online, they get an automated and they get an automated email and sustainers get a different kind of automated email. So okay, we’re not going out there, and i’m still the one time donor. If they make an online gift to get a in ordinated email on our ana made it basically, thank you eat tax receipt online and then if they don’t, it makes a gift off line they get, you know, they get mail ok in that in that offline, direct mail are they also invited to become sustainers in direct mail? Yeah, so we do dio way doo doo like a b r e slip and direct mail asking has a sustainers ask, and we do do some segmentation and email like we recently sent out a tax receipt that asked people to become, you know, if they had recently given a one time gift, asked them to become a sustainers consider becoming a sustainers and i think that that’s actually really speaks to kind of some of the multi-channel approach that we’re talking about, which yet, you know, it’s, not even just which channels you’re inviting people to become a sustainers through, but branding the program across everything that you send a donor so thinking them with that, you know, and making that sustainers asking, just kind of keeping that in the forefront of their mind as they go through. Sort of their donor life cycle. Okay. Uh r r one time donors asked again before their other once on gift if they hyre turn down the first sustainers nasco they then asked, like i said before there before their other annual gift. Yeah, good question we solicit our month. Well, we are monthly donors on a limited mail solicitation track, so we only send the mailings three times a year. Um and yeah, so we will when it that time is appropriate. The year and campaign. We will ask them to make a one time contribution or we’ll ask them to upgrade their gifts. So we do. Sorry, i’m kate reverting back to monthly donor is not one time your gifts. Sorry, my question was, how often do you ask one time donors to become sustainers you ask them the first time after ten days after their first there one time gift, how often after that? Before their next one time. We don’t have a player friend. Yeah, we don’t have a plan for that right now. Okay? Alison and christine, do you think that is advisable? Or should you just continue to wait until they made their other? Their next one time? Well, one of the things that we find to be really successful is again, kind of, you know, you’re asking the multiple times, but maybe you’re not asking them in the same way, so you’re, you know, you’re thanking them for their gift and there’s this kind of soft asked for them to become a sustainers then you send them an email and explain the program to them and ask them to become a sustainers that way, then you call them and ask them to become a sustainers and then you follow up from that and say, thanks so much for listening. Is this something you would consider so it’s? Not it’s, kind of a cohesive strategy that asked them multiple times, but it’s not necessarily like these kind of random, you know, isolated asks it’s, sort of an overarching okay, okay, that make sense. Yeah, it sure does. And allison, to your point about the importance of data earlier now, obviously way. Have to have good data for all these channels. Christy just described we need a phone number. I need their e mail. We need accurate mailing address, right? The importance of good data. Before we could do anything. Yeah, no, that’s that’s. Definitely right. Okay, way also need to know piggybacking on that how they want to be communicated with. So suppose somebody doesn’t want to receive phone calls. Yeah, i mean that that definitely has to be taken into account. You don’t make the donor injury. You want to communicate with them in the channel that they prefer to be communicated with thin. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that someone who donates online is only ever going to donate online that’s. Why i keep talking about the multi-channel approach. So in fact, forty five percent of the stayner’s that we see recruited into programs are actually recruited as a sustainers by a different channel in the first channel, they gave a gift to the organization, and so we brought them in through mail. But then they became a sustainers through the phone or online, or they came in on line. And then we made the ms sustainers half convert. They’re giving channel. Exactly. Okay, use the right language that you did. It was very krauz. All right, so we still have a good amount of time together. Sabelo before you have to. Go now. Yeah. Okay. She was taken by your sorry have really thank you. Nothing duitz conversation. Okay, thank you for saying that. Even if not sabelo breaks down. So it was like that. All right, thank you. Say thanks for joining us. Okay, now we’re now we’re just left with the consultant. So now we’re in a big, big loss. I did play e-giving fund-raising. Well, it was not it was not serious. Where should we take this next? Right. We talked about how i’m gonna convert at a game. What else have we, uh, not talk about that? We should in this hole multi-channel topic. Campaign ideas. You have some campaign ideas? Yeah. I mean, i could talk a little bit out some different things that we’ve seen we’re calling, why don’t you? Okay, i hold out on non-profit radio. Sure. So i think one of the things we’ve seen work really well with a lot of clients in a lot of different areas has been sustainers up so light box. So that means basically, on your one time get form, somebody makes the onetime gift and before their gift actually process is a light box pops up. And says, hey, things for your let’s define like box everybody doesn’t know whether it’s opaque shoretz i’m not okay. You know, when you go on a site and kind of the site gray’s out and then something pops up to the forefront that’s basically what? George in jail on non-profit radio yeah, try to help you out of it. Sorry, so you can still see through? You can still see through it. So pictures yeah, so picture this you’ve made, you’ve made a gift, then you know you’re you hit process, and then the screen kind of gray’s out in a box pops up and it says, you know, has a nice image and it says, you know, thanks for your gifts before we process your one time gift, would you like to turn this into a monthly gift and you can click no or you can click x and x out of it, and you’re one time gift will still process. But if you could yes, then it will convert to you become a sustainers so you’re catching people right at the moment when they’re making a gift and you just get people to convert and we’ve seen that works really well for bringing a new sustainers, but also doesn’t depress one time. Revenue does not. Okay, okay, what do we know about what? What amounts to ask them to? Would you like to make this gift to sustaining you? Well know, the mountains is different. So in the back end of the light box itself, there’s kind of an ask string tree, so basically gives a range. So if you make a gift between, say, five and fifteen dollars, and you ask for a five dollars monthly gift or, you know, if you kind of move up and you make a thirty two fifty dollars, gift your ass for a little bit hyre maybe, you know, fifteen or twelve dollars monthly gift so it’s kind of tiered. So you’re making sure that you’re asking for the right amount from people what we call that strategy. That’s the sustainer, upsell, lightbox okay, sustainers yeah, i terminology, yeah, as long as you define it joining way don’t like talking about it. Criminology sustainers upset like box, of course, who doesn’t know what that is like? Everybody who listens to cop radio does now that you know, you just treyz down. So i don’t think so. Sustainers upsell white-collar christine woman a woman who sat in your seat before this interview was so that was misty magog a chrissy hyre christy, what other campaign strategy can you share? Well, campaign strategies? Um, you know, i think that as alison alluded to one of the most important things that we see for organizations to remember, no matter what channel they’re trying to recruit, sustainers through is really the recency of the gift. So i think that a lot of times organizations have a little bit of a fear that if they asked too close lead to this is to the person’s original gift that it’s going to seem ungrateful to be like. Well, now, could you do ten dollars a month? Like ten days? Seems to be okay. Ten days a spine. In fact, the most successful phone programs we do call people within thirty days, which that’s really close? I mean, they just gave a gift. But you really want their commitment and their passion for the organization to be top of mind. And any time in the thirty days, not the next day. Not the next day. No, typically. The window starts kind of two weeks after their gift for two weeks to thirty days, you’re safe in asking for sustainers gift after someone made a one time yep, absolutely and of course, you know you want you want to thank them, you want to appreciate them for the amazing donorsearch es are but that’s, you know, that’s totally acceptable. And i think the other thing that we talked a lot about today and that we could go into a little bit more now is sort of what to do with sustainers once you bring them on, and so i think that you know, sustainers support is great because it’s the stable monthly revenue, but it’s not a set it and forget it kind of strategy and so there’s a lot of work that has to be done once you actually bring these folks to the table to become monthly donors, to make sure that they stay engaged and passionate and interested and that they continue to give and you don’t lose them because their credit card expired or they just sort of became disa passion with your organization. Okay, very important too. Yes, yes, we don’t, we don’t. Want to lose? You don’t want to lose our donors. What do we know about out? After someone becomes a sustainers do they then keep up their their annual giving, too? So this is something that a lot of organizations kind of go back and forth with. Do you continue to ask sustainers for one time gifts? Do you try to just upgrade their sustainers gift, like what is the perfect mix of howto results in them? And so one of the things that we found is that, you know, thes air your most committed, passionate donors, and so it is completely acceptable to ask them for a one time gift. A lot of folks use a strategy called the thirteenth gift, where in december they’ll ask sustainers to give sort of the thirteenth gift of the year. If you have, like, a key matching gift campaign or something really urgent happening within the organization sustainers air great group of people to reach out to on dh, then organizations have seen success upgrading sustainers is close to their original sustaining gift is three months after they give it. So you know, there’s there’s really no hard and fast rule it’s kind of about testing and finding what works best for the organization. Okay, even okay, things. That that sound unusual to me, even just within three months of their first sustainers gift it’s okay, in some cases to ask the upgrade that absolutely so we worked with a really large non-profit that has an extraordinarily large sustainers program and what they they tested six months versus three months in terms of a sustainers upgrade and found no difference. At three months that is many people upgraded the donor’s weren’t displeased to be getting called again so quickly that folks felt really engaged and excited. They kind of under you just always have to explain what their support is doing. Why is that additional three dollars, a month so important? Allison, could you help us with went to be thanking our sustaining donors? I think is pretty well recognized don’t think them every month, but do we thank them every year? What’s appropriate? Yeah, i think i think they definitely need to think them, but not overthink them, but i think something else that you can do more often is kind of keep those engagement touches going, so send engaging emails that aren’t just asking people for money, sending them something that’s going to keep them tied. To the mission of the organization and kind of keep the organization top of mind without asking them for money every single time they’re opening an e mail from you. Eso whether that’s a quiz about your organization reading article, you know something, something fun like that to keep them engaged, it informed, i think, is really important and sustainers going, of course, be lumpkins that along with everyone else on your email list on your contact list, but i think you know it’s nice at the end of the year at the beginning of the year to send out a nice impact email or an impact, you know, whatever you’re doing to show, um, you know how much their support meant to you over the year and all the stuff that you were able to do because of all the, you know, consistent support that sustainers gave you okay? So generally recognized that end of the year is is the best time or if there’s, another key bowman in your organization? I don’t think it’s a problem to thank donors, but i think you can do really consistent engagement emails, teo, to keep folks, you know, tied to your organization okay, way too little a budgeting conversation. Okay. Dahna what? What are expense items that we need to factor into creating a sustaining sustainers? Provoc well, i think that in some regards and allison definitely jump in. I think that when you think about sustainers recruitment, you almost have to think about it in the same way you think about acquisition, and so, you know, you’re going to invest in acquisition, but it’s a long term kind of long game strategy and sustainers recruitment is the same way, so you know that obviously one of the biggest cost is making sure you have the back and systems to process the spokes monthly, that you’re not gonna lose track of that. And, you know, all of that is part of the organizational budget i would assume and then additionally, you know, making sure that you are kind of realizing that if you’re starting a program from scratch, this is like the long game, this isn’t something that’s going to pay off in three months. This is something that you’re looking at in some cases, if you really want to build a large program, the big net is going to happen. After a year, maybe two years, maybe three years, depending on how big you want to go. Okay, so you gotta be in it for a longer term, right? Any other budget type factors? Allison, you want to jump in? No, i think you pretty much well covered it, but i think, you know, if you’re sending out e mails, you obviously have to have a sierra. So i think a lot of the stuff you know, most organizations already have but it’s a matter of using it for recruiting sustainers but definitely i think the biggest hurdle for a latto organizations is getting that peanut processing set up. Okay, got a meat processing that you trust? Are there payment processors that you like? You want to give a shout out to particularly well. Okay, what about strength? Yeah. So, you know, i think that this isn’t so much about the actual monthly processing, but, you know, there’s there are a lot of great tools out there right now, like stripe or a man tive that help recapture credit card information before it lapses, which really helps organizations that are trying to build sustainers program stem. That sustainers attrition on. Dit could be a really huge factor and turning around sustainers avenue. Okay, now, what was the second advantage vantive used to be? Lytle now, it’s canton. Okay, so we know that when credit cards laps, we’re likely to lose sustainers donors so just kind of some quick stats i can share with you, so i work with pretty large sized political action committee, and they’re very committed growing their sustainers program, they spend a lot of money investing in this new sustainers growth and so this year or in twenty fifteen, rather we saw this pattern where we were exceeding our budget projections for new sustainers revenue every single month and our sustainers number was decreasing every single month, so just, like, made no sense, right defied logic, so we dug in to see, you know, what’s going on? Why are all these people falling off the file? Because the problems really attrition and of those folks who are falling off, eighty percent of them were falling off because of bad credit card numbers. So this was sort of during that time where we all got this new chip cards or their expiration dates were expiring, theyjust were getting new cards and we weren’t able to contact them quickly enough to get that new credit card back on file. So with this process all of a sudden, you know, we implement this in december, and we go from losing thousands of dollars every month to seeing, like, twenty three percent growth since december through february. Okay, so what are we doing in advance of the credit card lapse? So a little bit technical and that’s? Not really my bailiwick, i will tell you, but so basically, what thes companies do is they contract with banks so that they have a relationship with the bank to update your credit card before it ever even expires. So, for example, if you have a netflix account, you probably notice that your credit card never actually expires. No matter what. You know how many cards your bank is sending you in the mail and that’s because they’re contracting with them directly to get that information so that you, the consumer, don’t have to go in and update all of that. Oh, i see. Ok, so it’s all happening transparent to you. It happens automatically, right? You never have to decide. I’ve given enough. To this organization, exactly it’s a customer service convenience that actually saves organizations a lot of money. Yes, it’s also non-profit exactly. All right. All right. We still have a couple of minutes left. Zoho some benchmark benchmark’s is for sustainers growth. Allison, help us with that. Yeah. I mean, i think it depends where different organizations are in their sustaining journey about growing their program. So i think, you know, when folks are thinking about starting or growing at sustainers program, you have to kind of set your own benchmarks that i can throw it a couple stats. I think you know, some things to consider. You know, overall good, healthy benchmark would be about having ten percent of your revenue comes from sustaining, giving. So, you know, that varies from organization organization, but i think that’s kind of ah, national benchmark it like a good back of the napkin calculation on that. I also think some other things to consider are just, you know, benchmarking and kind of setting some goals for how much revenue goals you want to have come from a scene e-giving and also thinking through, you know, looking at how much you want to spend to acquire these donors and then what’s the return on investment. How long are these sustainers staying on the file? Are they lapsing off? Is there a certain channel that’s? Not really working very well. Maybe honing in on, you know, tweaking your strategy a little bit. So i think there’s different things and it’s it’s going to be different for every organization you know, not everyone is the same place in there seeing e-giving program. But those air something’s toe consider. Okay. Okay, christy, i want to leave us with i think that ultimately what i would say is that while building a sustainers program is an investment, it ultimately is so worth it. It is probably the number one thing that organizations khun due to help grow their files. Folks who become a credit card sustainers will stay on your vile for thirty seven months or longer. They’re your best prospects for plan giving. They’re your best prospects for mid level upgrading. And they are ultimately kind of the core of your fund-raising once you develop that audience is ideal, concise, beautiful. Thank you, ladies. Thank you. Ok, they are christy hyre and she’s, a senior strategist. At chapman cubine adams and she was right. Okay on. Alison is also there doing marcus ellis, a digital account exec. You can’t exactly fucking watch, ladies. Thank you. Martignetti. Non-profit radio coverage of sixteen non-profit technology conference san jose, california. Thank you so much for being with us. Protect your donor’s data is coming up first. Pursuant. Have you checked out their white paper overcoming the major donor dilemma? It’ll help you. The research is free. It’s valuable it is. I can make it any simpler. This stuff is helpful. This one, the overcoming the major dahna dilemma covers identification, engagement and cultivation of new major donors. So you’re finding them, you’re getting them active and then you’re cultivating for the solicitation. Overcoming the major donor dilemma it’s at pursuing dot com you click resource is and then content papers. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising have you checked out their latest video, it’s from a night that raised money for help for children raised over one hundred ten thousand dollars, the organisation needed help. It turned to re be spelling. You can see it all documented. They’re documentarians it’s all there on the video at we b e spelling dot com now for tony’s take two, the twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference so we got two interviews today from twenty sixteen. I urge you, i can’t be seat you because that belongs elsewhere, but i urge you, i implore you to check out the twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference it’s march twenty third, twenty fourth, twenty fifth in washington d c there’s always there’s like one hundred or more there’s more than one hundred smart speakers, smart seminar leaders they’re all talking about how to use technology smarter, more efficiently, brighter all just better to help you do your work and is not only for technically oriented people mean, i go and i interviewed people and i can hold my own in the conversation so you can too on you don’t even have to converse with them. I mean, if you don’t talk to somebody and then just don’t talk, just listen but it’s not on ly for geeks, which is no longer a pejorative now than it was when i was growing up. But now it’s ah, people boast about being geeks but it’s not only for them, so if you’re using technology and ah, you’re odds are you’re listening on a smartphone, so guess what xero embedded in your life using it to do your work accomplish your mission. Then i would check out twenty seventeen and tc get latto all the info at and ten and tn dot or ge and that is tony steak too. Here’s, our second panel on protecting your donor’s data. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc this is also part of ntc conversations. We are at the san jose convention center kicking off our day to coverage. My guests are tracy lorts and joshua. Alan tracy is community marketing manager for greater e-giving on dh joshua is not listed in the program. How come? Last minute addition in addition, okay, joshua, tell us your title and your organization. So students engineer with greater e-giving what kind of engineer? Solutions solutions engineer with greater e-giving okay, they’re seminar topic is super boring. Crazy important p c i and protecting protecting your donor’s data. What? Thank you, joshua. Welcome. Thank you. All right, we have to acquaint listeners with what? P c i is i’m going to assume that a lot of people don’t know a post. We have jargon jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio, so we want to start off with you in prison in george in jail. That was tracy, since you’re most concerned about prison justin, maybe you’ve done time, so i don’t know, but you’re not not it’s. Not about jargon. Jail. All right, tracy, what is p c i? So p c i is an acronym that stands for the payment card industry. So it’s, a set of standards that’s put forth by all major card brains around the world to ensure a set of security standards are implemented by everyone involved in the card processing services. Okay, security standards, if you’re involving card processing, is it also dependent on what kind of data you save and whether you save data? Yeah, s o p c i has a set of data security standards called tell them the twelve pc ideas s going to get more darken. And thats the data security standard. Okay, so it’s a set of twelve requirements that are kind of a minimum standard for anyone involved in card processing that you have to meet those standards in order to be compliant with pcs. Okay, joshua, you’re doing this session so safe to assume that a lot of non-profits i don’t know what pc is my assumption, correct? They may not know what it is or they know what it is, and i’m not sure how to start so that that’s what our purpose far session is to is to get people acquainted with with what they what they should start learning to know and then and protect themselves and their donors. Data. Okay, okay, what is it? What is the best way to get started with learning pc? I mean, is it just a matter of twelve gss is or is there a better way to make entry into this for people aren’t familiar? Yeah, you need to know more if they are a little familiar. Yeah. There’s a four different levels of pc i compliance and it’s, based off of the number of transactions that you’re doing on a yearly basis. S oh, that would be the number of people that would be impacted if your organization were to have a breach so larger businesses processing, you know, billions of transactions annually have more stringent requirements than someone on ly processing in the thousand thousand transactions per year range. I’m so most, you know, most large large companies air having to do really, really strict requirements for p s p c i but if you’re a smaller processor, you really just have to complete what’s called the self assessment questionnaire that’s put forth by the p c i council and you have to do it on an annual basis and it’s basically as self verification that you are complying with all the requirements of pcs. Okay, let’s, just take one step back. Joshua if people maybe you’re in a smaller organization on, they don’t really want to take this on which we’re going to be talking about for the next twenty minutes. They could just accept gifts by check. Yeah, that’s always a possibility. Absolutely they could. But as we’re as we’re going into the digital age it’s very important that organizations open themselves up to the other fund-raising streams, including credit card payments and okay, i just want to put it out there. Yeah, just briefly, you could. This really scares you. And it was really small shop. You could just not accept credit card donation, right? But you’re missing out on the town. Of donations. Okay, this is it. It’s. Really? Not a big scary idea. You know that twelve requirements are really simple. Concepts like having a firewall in place. That’s one of the twelve. So they’re things that should be a part of your security process and your security policies is a non-profit to begin with. So they’re things that you should already be doing. It’s really? Just about ensuring that all of the checks and balances are in place. Ok. Ok. What are what are the four different categories? There’s twelve? No, twelve other. There are four categories based on the tear, your revenue, your number of processes for per year. Yes. Okay. You just lay out what? Those forty years. You could just tears called him. Tier one tier don’t know the terminology. I gotta be on the terminology. Okay? Right here. One through four. There’s. Some specific data. So i think she’s. Yeah. So okay, a tier one eye merchants going to be processing over six million transactions annually. That’s, that’s. A lot of, um a tier two. Going to be processing one million to six million. Tier three is twenty thousand to a million and then tear. Forest. Twenty thousand or less. Okay, so we would expect most to be three or four correct, vast majority for yes, okay, but we’re looking in the three and forty years, yes, level for most for most. Non-profits. Okay, all right, we’re just going to go through the, uh, that twelve. Yeah, we can ok. Have all these twelve applied to the tiers three and four, they d’oh okay, no matter what, okay, okay. It’s, just that simple. Should we just took him off? We can. Twelve. Yeah, okay, is there anything else we need to any other ground work we need to set for people who don’t know this stuff like me and anything else i should know before we go through the twelve? Well, i think it may be important that even though you do these twelve steps, it does not automatically prevent you from being breeched or unable to continue with these steps, right? But this is the industry standard is the industry standard. So even if you are breached, you can at least say we’re meeting the industry standards. But we still got, you know, we still got our data stolen or reached, right? It’s it’s not the it’s, not the end. All prevention from right, there’s. Almost nothing. I mean, if you have a bad guy in your or bad woman in your office nothing’s going to prevent that or right out of your office or out of it, so okay, all right, well, we can’t prevent one hundred per cent. We could be industry compliant, and we’ll get into some trouble. If we’re not industry complaint, maybe we should just have a little a little more motivation. What happens if you decide? You don’t want to do the pc adhere to the pc high standards? Are there civil or criminal? Sametz people there can be yes, definitely if you if you have a breach and you’re not complain with p c i or even if you are and you still have a breech, there are some potential ramifications. There’s actually quite a if you um most notably there’s some fees associate it that that your non-profit can receive on and there could be legal action taken against you. Obviously, if there was something that came up, that was ah, a major issue for your organization. So you’re better off. Obviously, if you’re our complaint can’t find them, tracy can’t okay. Joshua said, fees it’s a lot of information. All right, give us an idea of a penalty regularly. Regulatory notification requirements that just be like letting people know that you had a data breach, which is not good. You’re bad organization. Weren’t you weren’t complaining? Definitely. Loss of reputation, loss of donors, potential financial liabilities like fees and fines. And in some situations, litigation could be taken against you. Okay. Okay. And and all those situations, you’re in a much better position if your pc i compliant. Definitely. Okay, alright. Still more motivation. All right, let’s, start with our, uh we got the twelve. These are the twelve gss requirements. Yes, right. And what is the ss again? Data security standard. That a security standard requirements? Yes. Okay, s the number one isn’t install and maintain a fire wall pretty commonly done across most organizations. But obviously important to keep in mind that it’s up to date and that you’re continually checking on its security and making sure that it’s working accurately. Um yes, but you don’t have a three year old firewall. No, no. That’s. Not gonna do you any good. Okay. Ah, number twos do not use vendor supply defaults for system passwords. Okay, let’s, dive into this a little more now. Passwords. Don’t you? What you want to amplify what we should be doing with our passwords. Don’t use password. Wei had panel yesterday. Password? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, six and p word or so there was another one. Password with a zero for the o that’s. Really common. We actually cover the top twenty five most commonly used passwords in the last year in our presentation. Right? We’ll roll a few off these. They’re all bad people do not use the first one to say this is a list of what not to do with your password. Not what to do? Yes, exactly. Please don’t use these this’s good information for your daily life as well. S o so some of the top passwords are one, two, three. Four five six password one two three four five six seven eight corti more number strings football baseball welcome let me in, master monkey princess, my two favorite that made the list this year were as solo and star wars solo and star wars. Yes, alright, so they’re related. All right, bad passwords don’t use these, don’t you? You’re opening yourself up means the top twenty five passwords in the country. You’ve got to have something a lot more secure than one of the top twenty five, and you have to bet that that hackers that are out there no thes passwords are commonly is and all the other, you know, simple variations like using numbers to substitute for letters in the top things, you know, just don’t do it for god’s sake, how much plainer can we make it? And if you have passwords protecting your donor’s data, don’t use it across all of your your different systems that use that your your organization that is very important as well you’re saying have different passwords for the different software system? Absolutely all right, so don’t use the user default. I mean, don’t use a default password. What else was buried in that one, tracy there’s, little more. I thought, um, that was it. Don’t use vendor supplies, defaults, orb system, password. Now you’re decent password. Joshua wanted to read the next one protect card stored cardholder data. So this’s big now, yeah, that starts going into your files and being sure that the information that you do collect is relevant and important, too, maintaining accurate files, handup, but keeping them in a locked, stored area where they tried to help me out here. What was the research on this one? You want to cut back your risk of someone getting access to cardholder dahna? Obviously on dso, you wanna make sure that if you were using digital systems that use encryption, truncation are masking of card numbers, which means masking would be if you are, if you have a set of credit card numbers that your entire string except for, say, the last four digits, which is the most commonly used, wait up tio mask a card number, all of those air exes except for the last four Numbers so that would be 1 way to protect to the data that you’re storing. Let me ask a threshold question similar to my, you know, accepting check questions. What have you do? Credit card processing? What? You’re not storing credit card numbers, you’re still going to be able to benefit from no credit card transactions, right? But just don’t they have to store the numbers with the advantage there you don’t. So i would say that most on profits or using some sort of external service to actually process card data they, of course, as the merchant in that situation are having they do have access to card numbers for a short period of time when they’re transitioning it from there, their hands into their processors hands isn’t microseconds it’s, it’s seconds, but you never know what could happen, and you also never know, especially if it’s in a digital situation who could be watching what you’re doing that also includes the last four digits of a number or the expiration date as well. That all pertains that cardholder data. So even if you’re only storing the last four digits, yeah, you have to do this. We’re going to make sure it’s secure, okay, so in storing all sixteen and storing all only for no difference, you have to do all these things. All right, it’s. All right, so all right, so back to my simple minded question, maybe. Do you do you need to start, right? So i’m asking, do you need to store it? You’re saying you do have it in your possession for a short time, the microseconds or whatever that it goes to the processor that’s still considered you storing it right? And how did you get that data? To begin with that’s? The other questions to come encrypted. It has to come in in some fashion. So i mean, could it be a donation envelope that had that information written down on it? What do you do with it after you’ve processed it donation envelope? Can you shred it? What if you just shred it? That would be a great way to get rid of it, okay? Or burn it burning well, about having that’s always dramatic, but it actually works. We’ve talked about having burned piles in the office. You have a pc. I burn party. You could end of every week. Yeah, yeah, but you just want to make sure that it is completely, you know, it’s completely out of your hands, you’re no longer have access to it anymore, especially when it includes all of that. Really important cardholder data. Okay? And we’re talking about address name? Just a number. Correct. Not just the card number, but they’re mailing address their zip code. That’s the kind of stuff you do need to save because you wanted to mailings. Correct? Yeah. And and most of the time, you know, that kind of information is stored on under management system and those those systems are secure, so you obviously have to have access to them using a log in and password on dh. That information generally is going to be going to be secure as long as you’re using a really good password. Obviously, yes, way covered, that one. Don’t go back now way, have twelve to cover. I’m sure we’re gonna get it, but they all were with each other. That’s, your sister, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll Joshua read another 1 please. The next one encrypt transmission of cardholder data across your open public networks. So if you are a larger non-profit working, you know, with the main central office, you want to make sure that any of the cardholder data that you are sending is encrypted, you know, meaning you’re using. No, sorry. What of encryption protocols are in place? Couldn’t find the words are okay. All right, so you need to know. You need yes. You need some kind of expertise to know that you’re encryption. Protocol is correct. Yep. Okay. And that includes obviously working with your particular vendor that’s processing your cards for you that the system that they’re using is goingto also encrypt the data for you. Okay, that was a two way street that they’re encrypting also. All right, what else we got? Joshua let’s. Go ahead. You would protect all systems and gets malware and regularly update antivirus software program. So that mcafee system that it’s always bugging you in your in your bottom, right hand corner to update. You want to make sure that you’re continually keeping up to date with those. Oh, and updating to the latest software, especially with your your your donor management system software as well. So any bugs could be worked out routinely and kept up to date on this. Okay, okay, that was that was malware was an anti virus that is now wearing it tomorrow. You want to make sure they’re europe today and that that that system wide, teo. Obviously, a lot of you know, large organizations have hundreds of computers that are using that network. So you have to make sure that every single device that’s accessing your network is secure and updated on a regular basis. Okay. Okay, tracy want teo, don’t you give us a couple all right, number six, develop and maintain secure systems and applications. S o that’s just basically saying, you know, there are tons of vulnerabilities out there to your security system, and the landscape is constantly changing, so you need to make sure they hear up to date with, you know, vendor provided security patch is kind of like what josh was mentioning with your dahna management system that you’re keeping it up today if there’s any updates that come out with that on dh, that all systems have software patches and are just, you know, you’re managing and maintaining them on an annual basis. Okay, this sounds like another one. That is a pretty common sense. You should be doing this anyway. Yeah, irrespective of your this storage or not, of your credit of credit card data. In-kind yeah, big cognizant of who has access to that. Data in your in your office as well. Okay. Okay. Area right. And what machines it’s on? Yes. All right. All right. S o the number seven is restrict access to cardinal data by business. Need to know s o that just basically means that the people within your organization that have access to cardholder data is limited. And then it’s on ly the people that really need to know what that data is. Eso you just, you know, you want to have someone who’s, the authorized person to take care of of those transactions and that it isn’t open to just anyone, you know, accessing that information. And you really should just generally have a deny all setting for things like processing cards, denial, setting. What does that mean? It just means that that for the baseline, no one has access to it. But that there is, you know, one or there are one or two people that do so the default thie developed is no one touches him. And then we work up from there. Correct? Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this should be in the hands of you’re donor-centric gift processing department. Wherever that is, someone on the development team, right? But, you know, like the director of development and the vice president for institutional advancement, do they need to know credit card numbers? Not necessarily not know. Yeah, probono depending on the size of your organization. That’s true, that could be the gift processors. Yeah, director development could be the gift processor. It’s alright, but yet fair. Okay, let’s. Give joshua shot hyre let’s. See, i identify and authenticate access to system components. So it’s really important. Tio this hyre goes back in and ties in some of the other, the last two. You wantto uniquely hold everybody accountable for their actions. So the people who do have access, who are processing the cards, you have a system set in place where they have the checks and balances needed to hyre go through the crucial data and systems that can be traced back to them. So a lot of the love, the systems that that are in place, you can you contract who actually process that credit card to access that person’s record because just record in their dinner, we should be able to track treyz back all all transactions and viewings and things like that all right? Yeah. Okay. Is that standard in in aa cms zsystems? Absolutely. Yes. You just have to make sure, obviously, that when you set it up for your organization that you make sure that each person has their own unique logging. So, like, for example, some limes, it’s like admin doc development that’s not really going to be effective and tracking before people could be twelve people. Exactly. Disaster. If it’s more than one. The chicken finger point yet. So all right. You right. You have to have unique log. Yeah. E-giving each person their own unique identification. Okay, report. All right, go ahead. Who’s. Next restrict physical access to cardholder data, which is ah, tracy is a really good example of this. When she used to work for a nonprofit, she is really embarrassing. Way won’t name the non-profit, but she probably could tell the story better, but i attended this organization’s fund-raising ah, year before i started working for them. And they tried to kind of daisy chain a system together to be able teo capture credit card information. A check in it failed them on of that night and their internet dropped and they couldn’t collect card holder information to process card payments for purchases. Made it the event. So they walked around with donation cards and just had people hand right in all of their credit card information on these donations. Pompel pretty common practice, you know, non usual, however, start working for the organization years down the road. I’m going through some old files and what i find all of the donation forms with everyone’s. Credit card information from that event, which was three years previous was laying in an old just laying in an old file disaster. God, numbers, addresses everything. Expiration date, everything. Security codes. Exactly what you don’t want to have happen. So i you know her. I can attest that. You know, this kind of information needs to be out there in the nonprofit world. And organizations really should be considering following the pc. I guidelines. You should be just doing it. Yes. Okay. What a fine. Oh, my god. I got a chill. I don’t think it’s the air conditioning today afternoon, the air conditioning came on. I would say maybe was the air conditioning. But today is it’s not blasting? Yeah, that’s. That’s really is chilling it. Is what did you do? I immediately started all of it. Yes, absolutely. I think they had a burn party, fire bond fire departments to be on call. And what about now? Did you bring it to the attention of of management? They’re absolutely yes, yes, that changed their yes behavior. Yes, definitely. You know, a lot of things. A lot of things have changed since then. It was just, you know, it was an oversight on someone’s part along the way, and it just kind of got for gotten and in the shuffle. And, you know, it was just one of those things that happened, and you just have to it does have to, you know, really you don’t you want to minimize the risks of exposure to that kind of problem within your organization. Let’s, move on. Go ahead, joshua. You want to track and monitor all access to network resource is and that called cardholder data. So if it is, if you if you are storing the physical copies of the last four digits of the number with everything else blacked out or anything you want, teo have that restricted access in a locked filing cabinet with one person having the key and you want to know who has it as well? Okay, excellent locked access, one person, one person. Qi is pretty common sense. Pretty simple, but, uh, they’re easy to spell out and miss one of these. Yeah. Okay. Now what if that person ah, is sick for a day? You know, should narrow. Shouldn’t be some redundancy. Like we have multiple people who consign checks should there be a second key holder so that if a person is out for a day, we need to access that? Yeah. You know, we definitely encourage that you don’t want to give all of the keys to the kingdom toe one person. There shouldn’t be one individual person that’s accountable for all of that. That data and access to that data so definitely should be more than one person that that’s that’s managing. But they’re still has to be controlled, like, maybe have to sign in cracked, you know which, which is an honor system. Okay? Or or maybe now, don’t we use this to, um where this where this data is stored in this physical location, maybe there should be a camera focused on that spot. Just like we have cameras that focused on the desk where the cash gets counted. Right? Ok, so that would be a method of determining who’s been in there. Okay, go ahead. Um, did you just do ten? Ok, alright, eleven regularly test security systems and processes test. Okay, how do we do this? So, obviously you know what? You know when you wanna have a security policy in place, but if you don’t test it to make sure it’s goingto work it’s not going to work s so there could be a potential gap somewhere along the way that you missed on dh the only way they’re going to find out that it was mrs by testing. All right. So what are we testing? We’re pretending there was a brief if you have that camera set up, are you actually actively looking at the camera? Occasionally. Are you testing? Were you testing your checks and balances? Right? Orders the video get get re recorded over every twelve hours. Exactly north. Maybe. You know, maybe seventy two hours is okay. I don’t know how long it may be. Should be a week. I don’t know, but yeah, if it’s too. Short, the video is worthless. What else? What else? I mean, how do you how do you run these tests? What do you what? You’re testing s o i mean, you want to test all of your, you know, excuse me, all of your software components, those need to be tested on a regular basis on dh that i’m that your network is continuing to be secure, that you’re updating and changing passwords to be able to access your network on you know, this is a this is ah, one of the areas of the pc i that’s kind of it it’s definitely the most important because lots of people don’t conduct those scans. I’m but it’s frequently overlook. Okay, how many do we have left on? I was eleven or twelve. Alright, maintain a policy that addresses information security for all personnel. Gotta have a policy, right? Absolutely information. Security name just took off a couple of things and then we got to wrap up. That should be in your policy. Yeah. So you want to make sure that you have ah, usage policy for technology. So if you’re giving access to computers to your users, you want to make sure that, you know, you have things in place to ensure password security. So you want to have restrictions on what passwords can be? How many characters it has to be on let’s. Joshua would give the last word another tickle. Fight him on this number twelve. And this needs to be policy. Yeah. This needs to be incurred grunts with your privacy policy that that that you display with your donors as well like that, they know that you’re being good stewards of their data. Okay? Data as well as biographical and all the other demographic info that you have on them. Absolutely. Okay, we gotta wrap it up there. That’s ah, tracy lords, community marketing manager for greater giving. And joshua alan is an engineer. Solutions lucien’s engineer that’s also a greater e-giving. Okay, tracy. Joshua. Thank you very much. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us next week. A new accounting rule that you need to know. Do not roll your eyes. We will make it interesting. I will. I guarantee it. This is going to be with the huge tomb who’s been on. The show before. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enable pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows. Social media is by the excellent susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five.

The NTC Videos: Work Smarter

The second set of Nonprofit Radio video interviews from #15NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network. Including distance collaboration, the cloud, Beth Kanter and Ritu Sharma.

Nonprofit Radio for June 19, 2015: Smart Donor Engagement & The Right Database

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Rich DietzSmart Donor Engagement

Compare what you’re doing with takeaways from Abila‘s study of how donors want to be engaged and how nonprofits engage them. Some methods are on target; others miss. Rich Dietz is Abila’s director of fundraising strategy.

 

 

Michelle ChaplinThe Right Database

What are the steps to select the right database for your organization? Michelle Chaplin is senior manager of online fundraising at PBS. We talked at NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference hosted by NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, we have a grand to affiliate. Welcome katie artie ninety five point seven fm davis, california while non-profit radio was on the road past two and a half weeks, i stopped by davis. I’m a program director. Jeff executive director autumn i toured the studio and i thank you very much for hosting me. Jeff in autumn and this is the california announcement that i’ve been teasing you about, and there will be another california affiliate coming but for today. Welcome, katie. Artie davis so very glad you’re with us, our newest affiliate. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of encephalomyelitis ridiculous if i had to think about the mere idea of you missing today’s show smart donorsearch gauge mint compare what you’re doing with takeaways from a bill, a study of how donors want to be engaged and how non-profits actually engaged them. Some methods are on target. Others miss rich dietz isabella’s, director of fund-raising strategy also the right database. What are the steps to select the right database for your organization michelle chaplain is senior manager of online fund-raising at pbs, we talked at ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference, hosted by intend the non-profit technology network on tony’s take two, a tribute to rochelle shoretz responsive by opportunity collaboration, that working meeting that unconference on poverty reduction that will ruin you for every other conference. I’m very glad to welcome rich dietz he’s, director of fund-raising strategy at abila he began his non-profit career as director of a youth mentoring program in college. For twenty years, he’s been working in and with a wide variety of non-profit political and government organizations, as well as tech companies, focused on the nonprofit sector. The company is at abila dot com, and he is at rich deets on twitter. Rich, welcome to the show. Thanks a lot, tony. Glad to hear you’re. I’m very glad that you are. Where you calling from college? You’re in austin. All right. Austin is awesome. We just had and to see their non-profit technology conference where you were you there? I was definitely there. It was right in our backyard and actually found it harder to go to the conference when it was in my own backyard than when traveling, decide to drive in every day in austin traffic with us a month. I’m so yeah, i’m sorry. We didn’t meet there, though, but i met a bilich there, but i didn’t see you personally, but next year, you’re going to be there. You think in twenty sixteen? Most definitely okay. That’s san jose, i believe, isn’t it? Yes. I’m very excited because california from california originally lived in the bay area for quite a few years. I’m very excited that i just spent ah, weekend half moon bay. Beautiful. Yes. Very nice round the coast. Very, very nice community. Okay, rich, this donor engagement study. Why? Why do we need such a study? Well, we we did the study for a couple reasons. One we were looking at the industry and we seen way saw a bunch of other studies out there that talk to donors or maybe talked organizations and was trying to get this whole idea of why donors give you know what? What motivates them to give what makes them feel engaged? And we found that there was a lot of studies that looked at one or the other. But there weren’t studies that looked at both groups as a whole and then compared them to see if there was any differences, overlap, commonalities or actually holes in that and some of our concerns around that was, you know, fifty seven percent of donors each year are leaving organizations, you know, donor attrition, you know, we also see seventy four percent of non-profits admits that they don’t use donordigital to make program decisions on dh, that sort of, you know, concerns us a little bit, so we wanted to dig a little bit deeper into that. So we created the study, the donor engagement study, it was a survey of both donors, a cz well, as non-profit organizations we ask them a number of questions to find out preferences on engagement, so we asked the non-profit how do you think not, you know, donors want to be engaged with, and then we asked the donor’s, how do you actually want to be engaged with and then compared those and found some really interesting commonalities and some very, very interesting differences that attrition rate that you mentioned that we’ve had the other guest mentioned that seventy four, seventy five percent of donors leave an organization. Each year that’s, that’s startling it is startling in striking and and the way i usually tell people how startling it is. Let’s say you had one hundred, donors donate today in five years on ly one of those donors is still donating the organization that should scare you. And that should keep you up at night. Ninety nine percent over five years. Well, no, no, i’m saying it is the year over year, seventy four percent every year you’re leaving? Yes, yes. So after five years on ly one of those hundred still still don’t. Okay, so we could call that ninety nine percent attrition over five years over, but yeah, my gosh, yeah, alright, neverthought about it longer than okay on dh. How did you select the non-profits and donors to survey? We actually went to a research firm called ed research stuff just to make sure that we weren’t biased and how we we don’t want to just select our clients or just not our client. So we went to aa research company called research on and they did it all using, you know, the highest statistical standards. Ninety five percent plus confidence all of that fancy. Stuff that i don’t understand everything about. But, you know, i i leave that for smarter people, okay? Confidence intervals. I remember those confident from college statistics, like if you had ninety six percent confidence that’s, actually not very good, as i recall from i don’t know what i’m saying if no, no, i didn’t mean if this study had ninety six percent. I mean, in general, if one has ninety six percent confidence, as i recall from college statistics that’s not even very high, you want to be like ninety eight or ninety nine percent? I’m not imputing the abila study way haven’t gotten into yet there’s nothing to impute. All right, so you have some excellent takeaways, which we want to leave listeners with remember our our audience is small and midsize non-profits and they are certainly struggling with that kind of attrition, and we’re interested in the the commonalities, but also the misalignments in the disconnects between what donors are saying they would like or believe they’ve got and what non-profits believe they are doing or believe they ought to do so that that’s where we want to, we want to focus on these your your your first takeaway is that basics and fundamentals are very, very important most definitely in this is this was one of just one of the findings i was very excited about because i’ve been preaching the fundamentals and getting back to the basics for many, many years, as i’ve been consulting and teaching and training across the way, in fact, i have a master’s in social work, so i’m a social worker by trade and something we learnt about social work school is mathos hierarchy of needs, which which i’m sure most people on the caller are very familiar with and massive marchenese says, you know, you have to have your basic needs met before you can move up into higher level things, you have to have food and water before you even care about friendship or, you know, confidence or or anything like that. And when i found working with non-profits is it was very similar in that they need to focus on the basics first and then move up the ladder there and see what i mean by that is you need to focus on your website, email marketing your donor process. You know how you move a donor? From an email all the way through the donation process, actually becoming a donor, and you need to focus on that first before you get into things like peer-to-peer fund-raising and social media and and all of that stuff on so we found in the study is going back and really focusing on those fundamentals and what do we mean by those fundamentals? The number one thing is thinking through that donor flow, thinking through what it is like to be a donor to go through your entire process of a fundraising campaign, and that is from that email they receive to the length they click on to the page, they land on to the donation form and and all the way through the thank you. And then, of course, the follow-up follow-up is so is so important. And so the way we’ve been trying to talking about now, instead of thinking of a holistic donorsearch experience where we’re calling it a holistic donorsearch donor experience because you not only need to think about the entire process, but also the actual individual that is going through that process, i’m going to get much deeper into this when we get into the segmentation, but thinking about who’s doing it is it a major donor is in a major donor who likes polar bears, and that gives you a very different process that you may want to do than a fifty dollar donor-centric frogs it, and we’ll get much more into that as well as a cz we go through another really important thing on the on the fundamentals is showing impact you’ve probably heard other people talk about how important it is to show impact and that the work that you’re doing is meaningful and making a difference will in our survey, we found that the number one thing donors wanted to know about was is the money being used wisely? They also wanted to know if their support is making a difference was another top three concern of theirs on dso. By showing the impact you can do that, the best way to show that impact, of course, is stories story is going to be the best way to show that impact on and that’s again going back to the basics, really crafting some beautiful stories and if you can bring in that visual storytelling on dh, what we mean? By that is, using video using pictures to really tell a great story. Okay, which study done by cloudgood yes, i wanted to point out that the going back a little bit you your premise was that people started that pipeline through an email, but they’re actually maybe multiple ways. They may have found you first on one of the social networks, or they may have found you first through hearing about you from a friend. So even just that entry into the pipeline is going to vary across people. Definitely definitely andi and channel preference is something that would be talking about some of the later findings as well. But that’s that’s, a great point is actually tailoring how they found you in that messaging and in those stories and how you communicate with them is also very important. Yes, okay, thanks, rich. We need to take a break on when we come back. Of course, you and i’ll keep talking about a billa’s donorsearch exgagement study. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. What are the latest travel trains? How khun travel. Be a part of your overall health and wellness plans. This’s william paris, lifestyle travel consultant and your host foreign travel and wellness today. Join me on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. For travel chat, travel tips and travel news. Update that’s on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time on talk radio dot n y c. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future. You dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight. Three backs to one to seven to one eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Talking dot com. Hyre welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I can’t send live listener love, spy city and state today because we’re pre recorded by a day it’s a it’s a day before the live show. But of course, live listener love to each person who is, in fact listening live podcast pleasantries so there’s over ten thousand listening and the time shift, wherever it is, whatever device, whatever you’re doing, maybe washing dishes. That was the latest i’ve heard podcast pleasantries to everybody in the park in the podcast and listening that way and our affiliate affections love our affiliates, those am and fm and online stations throughout the country, whatever day, whatever time they they play it and their schedule affections to all our affiliate listeners. And, of course, katy art being our newest affiliate in davis. Richard you from davis or davis area, by any chance you said you said i am not out from from her down the beach, california, down south. But i lived in san francisco for about seven years, okay? Yeah, you did mention bay area. Okay. All right. So moving on, we have we have some disconnect, but between donors and non-profits around frequency of communication. Yeah, and this was one of more controversial aspects of the study. We had a couple people come up to this on this, we actually had somebody accused of malpractice, quote unquote, talking about communication frequency and think they read it slightly wrong, so what we found is non-profit professionals were ten times more likely than donors to feel that they were not communicating enough, so the organization’s felt they should be communicating more donors were saying, you’re doing it just about right? So there’s a disconnect there so some folks thought were saying, don’t communicate as much. Don’t email as much don’t do as many facebook post and that’s, not really what we’re saying, what we’re saying is actually bringing in the next key finding with this one is critical content is more important than frequency or channel, so what we’re saying is it’s not how much you communicate it, how you’re communicating, one is communicating with really good content, so that is giving them the stories the thank you’s showing the impact, the accomplishments that you’ve made that’s, the content that they want, that’s, the content that they don’t mind if. You email mohr of it. The other thing is to customize your content, you’re now non-profits are now being compared to amazon and zappos and these for-profit who are really customizing and tailoring their content and donors air at home going well, if amazon knows that i like books about weaving, why can’t my non-profit know what i’m interested in about the organization wanted? They know that i’m interested in the girls after school program, how come they can’t taylor that content? So we’re saying better content and a little more taylor to the organs to the individual donor, you have some findings on different channels that donors would like to see frequency manage differently on? Yes, definitely, and that was some of the interesting fundez while there was some surprises in there and some things that we have come to expect as any particular ones you’re interested in tony yeah, well, let’s start with email. What, what, what, what? What donors feel about the email channel? What i found about email, what i was actually very happy to see and something i’ve been preaching for a while is that email is actually pretty solid across all groups, andi also way also had at abila we also slice the, uh, the the data by generation, so we slice it out by millennials, gen xers, boomers and matures on, and we found something like email was actually solid across all of those generations, in fact, that matures, which air, you know, sixty five over sixty nine percent of them said that email was a fine way to communicate with them. So when people say that the older folks aren’t on e mail or they don’t like getting their email, we’re definitely seeing a shift change there. Yeah, i don’t agree with that matures or olders how boomers boomers matures don’t like email. I think in a lot of cases you would have the individual would have given their email address to the to the organization. So you’re you’re expressing your preference for that channel that way. Ok. What about direct mail? Us paper mail? What? Your findings on that? Yeah. There’s. Actually. Interesting finding on that. And i definitely want to dig deeper. But we found that, of course. You know, you would expect boomers and matures. About eighty percent of them are saying direct mail’s fine. Ah, funny. That was a little surprising as millennials, eighty four percent of them said direct mail’s fine and my my running theory right now, i don’t have any evidence to back this up yet, but that millennials aren’t getting a lot of mail, so getting something in the mail is kind of a cool thing to them, you know, maybe direct mail might work with millennials. Okay, it’s gonna be something that we looked at a little deeper. I see why you were chuckling when when i ask you about that. All right? They’re not getting enough. Those j crew catalogues on the american apparel catalogs. Just not sufficient. Exactly. Okay, um, all right? Interesting. And then all right, so then, sort of related to that is that people do want content that they believe that that is relevant to them most definitely most definitely, and it really gets into the segmentation. Yes. Okay. And we’re going, we’re going to get teo. We’re gonna get the segmentation. Well, i guess we could, you know, means it doesn’t have to be in the sequence that you and i have been thinking about since we’ve teased it a couple times. Now what? What do we know about segmentation well, other than it’s not really being done quite as well as it ought to be. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And i think if if if you talk to non-profits their pride pretty honest about this in fact, fifty two percent of non-profits felt like they really weren’t using, you know, segmentation as well as they could, and we found surprising. Well, not surprisingly, fifty two percent of donors felt like organizations weren’t taking their preferences into account. And so when i talk about segmentation, that’s what i’m really talking about his donor preferences, how can you build an experience that the donor feels that you have taken their preferences in account that you have taken their interests into account? Remember, like i said earlier, you are being non-profit are being compared to amazon and zappos and all of that now, so they’re getting highly segmented in some of their emails and some of their communications that they’re getting on, and they’re not being segmented and talked to in a very specific way from the non-profits so we really need to do a better job at that that when we found his most non-profits felt that they were using donation amounts as a source of segmentation, but it really dropped off drastically when we started looking at other ways to teo segment. And so what i’d like to suggest to my non-profits is to start with donation amount because, you know, you’re already doing that and then try to add in one or two more other data point, andi, you know, a really easy one to do would be interested. Um, what are they interested in? What have they shown any sort of interest in and a lot of non-profits have this data already on hand, and they might not even know about it. You can go to your email marketing software and look at what links did they click on that they click on a link for the girls after school program? Then they’re probably interested in women’s issues, girls issues, or maybe they even have girls, you know, did they click on red eyed tree frog? And they did click on polar bears so you can actually pull out some of that interest data. So they’re telling you in many ways, on dh, then you can segment further down from there, okay, so we we’ve talked. About age and interest communications channels. What else? Ah well, we mentioned giving him out that’s that’s very standards. That seems very, very standard method of segmenting what else? What else can you recommend? Another interesting one to think about his location on? And i think this one is particularly good for national organisations, organisations that are that are fund-raising or doing things across the country. And the best example that i’ve seen of this in recent years has been the obama campaign. During the last obama campaign, there was a window. There was a new york times reporter. I believe they did it interesting study where he went, and he signed up for all the candidates emails, but he signed up from different parts of the country. And so for the obama campaign, when he signed up in portland, oregon, he got very different emails than when he signed up in south carolina. Portland, oregon. He got emails about forestry, about labor issues down in south carolina. He got very different communications, so just buy the location that somebody’s ass that they signed up for. You can actually start segmenting based on that and making educated guesses on what? Their interest might be, and then you look to your email statistics that they continue to click on those things that you think they’re interested in. Then yes, they are. If not, then you, then you can try something else. Signing up from portland, i would add, thai food should be added to that interest because i had i had the most delicious thing in cycles are really big in portland. Oh, are they? I didn’t see that, but i didn’t see i didn’t see any use cyclists miss that, but i had the most delicious us thai food that i’ve had since i’ve been to thailand and i live in new york city and supposedly we have good restaurants here. But, uh, i have to shout since you mentioned portland pock pocket pook, pook, best thai food i’ve had. It was in portland best us tie i’ve ever had, so i would add thai food to the forestry to the forestry interests in portland. Okay, yeah. What? What about agent? Which, if we don’t have a gin our database wait, how do we get out that that that that is an interest one and that one’s going to be a little bit of a challenge? But i have some ideas that i think might might help broke down, so it is an important one, and we really do want to highlight the age since we did look at this data and we did, you know, at abila we slice it up into the different age groups, you know, millennials gen xers matures, baby what’s up, we found that only three percent of non-profits said that they’re really looking at age on a frequent basis in order to segment, and we saw, as you saw in the channel preference and all that there are some big differences in there. So when you’re looking at age, i think there’s some ways you can get this data, some of this data non-profits may already have if a non-profit has done a walk or a ride or a run or any sort of event like that, they probably asked for a gin order to put them into their age brackets and so that can help get that data right there. Look at any of your past registration on and see if you have that that age data on do you know it could already be there? The other thing is to do a donorsearch on and there’s a lot of good reasons to do. It donorsearch not just for ages, but to actually get into your preferences. I say all the time that you know, when we talk about best practices, a best practice is really just a starting point. You still need to test it and try it out within the organization because you might have very different donorsearch mints than what we’re talking about here. And so by doing a donorsearch way, you can dig deeper into what their bread, you can ask them their channels reference, you can have them. You know how they want to be communicated with how frequently they want to be, commute whatever you want to do in there now. The big problem is surveys of getting people to turn them in. You’ve got to come up with some incentives for them to turn in those surveys, you know you can obviously, give away some chock keys, a t shirt or a bumper sticker or, you know, a discount to your gala, something like that. But in a new idea that i’m seeing a few started to experiment with now is doing some sort of matching grants or matching gift with service. So get of one of your major donors to say anyone who turns in the donorsearch ve i’m going to donate one dollars, two to the organization and letting the donor’s know why you’re asking for this data. The reason you’re asking for the data is so you can communicate with them in the way that they want to be communicated with, you know, letting them know that you know, that they’re overwhelmed with emails and overwhelmed with with direct mail and all that stuff, and you only want to be sending him the communications that they actually wanted, that would be their incentive for filling it out as well. I love that donor dahna contribution match for ah, for each survey we have a donor who will donate a certain dollar amount. That’s outstanding that’s it that’s it gets a cool idea. Haven’t heard that. Excellent. Excellent. Um all right, well, any other, any other suggestion about getting at age for an organization that doesn’t have it? It’s not well, we can. We can move on anything else you got? Yeah, you know that. I mean that i think something is going to develop over over the next six to ten months if any listeners out there come up with some good ideas, please send him in, send amar away because i’m looking for new things to test and try on defy could find new ones. I will let you know as well. Okay. And i’ll remind listeners ah, that you are at rich dietz d i e t z at ridge detail on twitter um, okay, let’s, let’s, move, move on then some other takeaways people love giving right makes them feel very good. It actually makes them feel very good on. And this is one of the interesting ones is the number one way that they felt engaged and connected to an organization was through the act of giving. Volunteering came in a fairly close second on attending events, and doing things like that really had started fell off dramatically. From there people people felt like attending an event wasn’t as engaging as, you know, volunteering or actually donate and on the surface you’re like, okay, that is totally obvious, right? But there’s a couple of key points, you’re one, i try to use this to help non-profits feel more comfortable and asking for money people want to donate, and when they do, they feel really, really good, so you’re actually helping people to feel good, so you’re doing a service for them, you’re not taking their money, you’re giving them good feelings is the way i like to tell us, why not? Provoc dahna very good, very good love that. Okay on you have now there’s a difference among millennials? The number one and two are swapped. Yes, it is, and that was really interesting for us. So millennials number one is volunteering and number two is donating and what’s interesting is this aligns really well with some other research and other discussions i’ve had with folks that air that air looking at millennials is millennials have a very different process, one on how they evaluate an organization and how they engaged with an organization. What they’ll do is they’ll go teo and organizations social. Media profiles to learn a little bit more about them they want to see that you’re really people, they want to see that you’re human. If you have the same sort of corporate speak that you have on your website, they’re they’re they’re probably gone. They’re not even going to engage with me any longer, but if they like what you’re saying on social media, then they’re going to come in and volunteer. If the volunteering goes well, then they will make that donation decision, so it is a very different way on dh really, organizations should be looking at getting millennials volunteering well before they even asked them for for a money which which makes sense if you think about it, our wonder of millennials are telling us that they have they have more money than the rest of us, and their time is scarcer, which would well, i don’t mind their time being scarcer, but if they have more money than the rest of us that’s annoying the hell out of me, that’s what they’re saying way have just like a minute and a half before we have teo to wrap up so let’s uh, let’s just flush. Out a little bit more. We’ve already very touched on this a fair amount, but the differences in engagement around age and generation. Yeah, so that you know what i would recommend for folks to a download the study. And they could do that at abila dot com a b o l a dot com forward slash donorsearch gauge mint study on dh there they conceal the charts and dig deeper into the data. But we did find those very interesting differences and, you know, like i said, you know, you’ve got to take everything like this, aziz, a starting point on, and then you need to test it and try it within your own organisation. Weii brought up a lot of the ones earlier about direct mail and all that. But another one i found really interesting on the differences was on, uh, gifts where’s that i’m looking at my date right here. Rich, we have two that’s. Okay, we have to wrap it up. But you’ve told people where the where the study is and if they want more through, they could get you on twitter at rich dietz which, thank you very, very much. Thank you so much. All right, thanks. My pleasure. Thank you for joining us. Tony steak to and the right database air coming up. First opportunity collaboration. It was a terrific experience. It really kicked us up to the next level. We built out a fund on site, and we have raised two and a half million dollars toward a target first close of five million dollars from delegates at the twenty thirteen collaboration that’s from russ baird, executive director of village capital yusa. There are funders at opportunity, collaboration and the rolls and impact investors, as well as lots of smart people from non-profits opportunity collaboration, a weeklong unconference in x top of mexico for everyone who is working in or around poverty alleviation, lots of people who can help you get your work done. And there’s plenty of free time built in to meet those people, make friends and figure out how you’re able to help each other. I was there last year. I’m going this year. Every session is in a circle. It’s very collaborative. No power points, no plenary speakers. Three hundred fifty people from around the world collaborating. If your work is related to poverty, check it out. Opportunity collaboration, dot net. We had a death in the non-profit radio family. Rochelle shoretz the first guest on non-profit radio to die deshele founded sharks share it, a support network for breast cancer survivors and very sadly, she’s no longer a survivor. It was june first when she died. She was on the august thirty first, two thousand twelve show, and we talked about storytelling and deshele very generously shared her story and story of lots of people that share share. It has helped and worked with my thoughts go out to her family and shark share it and those tens of thousands of women and men that her work has touched. Oh, and i have a tribute video with a link to the show on also the new york times obituaries at tony martignetti dot com and that’s tony’s take two for friday, nineteenth of june twenty fifth show of twenty fifteen here is the next segment, which is also from well from ntcdinosaur as many have been lately. Excellent stuff from the non-profit technology conference here is the right database. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen were hosted by intend the non-profit technology network in austin, texas, at the convention center. My guest is michelle chaplain, she is senior manager for online fund-raising at pbs and her workshop topic is how to choose the right database for your organization. Deshele welcome to the show. Thank you. Great to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you thank you for taking time on a busy conference day. Let’s uh, let’s, start with a threshold question how do we know if our existing database needs to be changed? Yeah, absolutely that’s a great question, and i think the first thing is you have to sort of go through the process as if you’re looking to change your database. So first you wantto look att all your current users and what their needs are, what they’re trying to get out of the database and what it is doesn’t do that they wanted to dio, and then you need to bring all of those questions to your current vendor and asked them like, is this something that database really can’t do? Or is this an add on feature that we can pay for? Or is this you know, a custom ization that we can get or do we actually have access to this all along? And we just didn’t realize it. And then you went away like the costs of adding those features to your current database to the cost of switching and implementing a brand new database, which is substantial when you taken implementation, cost training cause and just the time it’s going to take for your staff to learn a new system. How do we filter out when we’re asking these questions in our organization between people just complaining about the database and really having a genuine need that isn’t being fulfilled because lots of people have complaints absolutely way filter out the yeah, the mere complaints on dh sort them out from the woods. Isa really write well and i think it’s really helpful to build requirements document, which is just a family non-technical word for need tohave list and a nice hot list. So you take all of the various rants and complaints and things they want, the database tohave and you divided into things that are real deal breakers like your database is not gonna work. Your users are not going to get what they want without these. Things. And then the nice to have things which, you know, might help you increase adoption. It might make a few people happier, but it’s not going to make or break your database and that’s going to help you kind of narrow down your options. Okay, so people will become more rational if we asked them to categorize between needs and needs and desires. Exactly. Okay, we’re trying to insert some rationality into this whole process, right? Be a lot more strategic and sophisticated. Okay. So then, if we have our we have our requirements document, uh, most vendors are going to be willing to review this with us. Yeah. And generally, when you ask a vendor to present there their database or their system to you, they probably have, like, a put together power point presentation. And i would say, just send them your requirements. Ask them point blank, like, does your system me all of these requirements? If not, then they don’t need to waste their time presenting or your time, you know, giving you this presentation. And when they present to you, ask them tio just do open up a kn example of their database and go through the steps that you, your users, will go through. So you can see what your user experience is. Rather than just getting kind of their standard sales pitch. That’ll save you both a lot of time. Let’s. Take a step backward when you’re talking to your existing provider. How do you sort of position it so that they don’t feel like they’re being threatened, not threatened, but so that they don’t just become defensive and you know, but you, you know, you didn’t identify that is a need years ago, we didn’t understand that that was a requirement of yours, you know, he’s trying to cut through that stuff and just can we get our can we get our needs met, right? Yeah, and i think it’s it’s a matter of, you know, acknowledging the fact that this process you’re going through is a process that you’ve just started and you’re looking at a database and you’re looking what people didn’t need to get out of it, and you’re asking them, like, is this something i could do with the database? You know, because this is a new, like me that has come up or this is a new requirement that we’ve identified that’s goingto be necessary in the future and, you know, most vendors will work very hard and if it’s at all possible to keep your business going your way, you’re asking exactly and understand, and, you know, if they can’t do it, then it’s sort of, you know, it’s self explanatory, why? Why you need to move on? And i think they understand that, like most vendors aren’t going to throw a fit over, you know, you making a reasonable, logical choice that this isn’t the right fit free. Okay, okay, um, so let’s, let’s jump back to dark metoo new potential vendors, are you ah, fan of r f piece for this process or some people are, and some people think they’re overblown and don’t really accomplish very much. I’m i’m a fan of a super simple r f k and what i do is my request for proposal are here my requirements? This is my requirements document the list of need tohave nice toe have stuff. And if your database could do all of my need to have in some of my nice to have that i want to hear from you, okay before exactly pretty simple or yes, compared to many that we’ve all seen exactly. Yeah, because most vendors, they already have their standard product. They’re not going to take the timeto, you know, answer. Accustom are for every single line. Okay, that’s, the that’s, the other side of one of one of the other disadvantages is you’re going not here from a lot of potential vendors who just won’t spend the time answering a lengthy are exactly okay. All right, so what’s, our next step? Well, how do we proceed in this in this process? Yes. So once you kind of have your short list of vendors and you’ve seen their presentation, then you really want to dig in and evaluate those, you know, top three or four vendors. Teo really ascertain whether or not they meet your needs and if if they all meet your needs. Like what nice tohave requirements do they also meat that will help you further narrow your list down. Andi, i for this part, i recommend, like, actually doing trials of everything. And if a vendor won’t let you try out their product and go in and mess around, i would be a little bit wary of that, because then you’re like buying. You know, you’re buying a car without giving it a test drive. So what do you migrate? Just a part of your database into the into each platform that you want to test. Yeah, you can just create some sample data. Are a lot of databases ifyou’re doing their trial portion? They even would come with sample data so you can just play around with the way it exists and just go through a few of your processes, you know, there doesn’t have to be, you know, huge reports generated or anything useful, it’s just you need to be able to see if your users were going to be able to get what they need to get out of it. All right? Dahna no, please, no more. Oh, so then after that, you can just sort of rate the different the different options based on your criteria. So your needs to have obviously, if they don’t meet any of the needs to have that’s a deal breaker, you can stop right there, throw him out and take him off your list. They wasted your time because you’re you asked him that originally exactly hyre they more points they lose right for squandering time? Alright, who’s involved in this process from the organization now that we’re out to the outside potential vendors. So i mean, i think there needs to be like a point person or a project manager who’s doing the implementation. And really, that depends, like, if it’s a small organisation, it could be just somebody with the title of project manager or executive assistant or you, you know, it might be the ceo doing all of this by themselves and then buy-in bigger organizations, they probably have, like, a database implementation manager or an administrator who’s in charge of all the databases who can kind of oversee. So it depends on the size of the organization, but really, one person should take ownership of it, and then they can lease and manage all the relationships with the key decision makers like the cfo, the ceo were actually, you know, signing the checks and then all of the different types of users, the power users who are going in and, you know, stretching the database to its limits every day, the people who maybe, like volunteers using it every so often and then all of the managers and and other people of the organizations who may not ever use the database but need information from it. So, like, your finance officers might need financial reports out of your database, but they don’t actually go in and generate the reports, so we need to talk to them. Tio, do you think the board has a role here or not? Really, i think it really depends on the board and the scope of the project that you’re working on. So if it’s a large like, if it’s your like a financial management database and the board, you know, is looking at the finances of recorder, hopefully and is generating the reports that i think including them in, you know what they want to see in terms of those reports and make making sure that the database meets their needs in that respect on dh then on the other hand, if they’re key decision makers in terms of this, this could be a very large purchase, and they’re, you know, key decision makers in terms of purchase decisions, then you need to be able to show them like this is the best option for organization and why and having that, having that documentation of like this so these air need tohave nice to have criteria and how every single option rates and you’ll get sort of like a clear picture of this is the winner and it’s something that’s easy for them to. Digest and easy for you to sell that yes on dh in large part because you’re showing that you’ve done your due diligence when you can document the process that you’ve been through. Exactly. Okay, thank you for that aggression we were at the stage where we’re testing, we’ve got we’ve got sample data yet, and we’re testing a few alternatives exactly, and then it’s just about going down your requirements document and checking off like every every process you go through everything that it khun dio, you know, all the little nice to have stuff that you’re users may want, but it’s not necessary and, you know, grading those and using those two just rate, you’re different options and again, that’s going to give you a clear winner in fact, there’s a really cool excel spreadsheet, which allows you to do like waiting of your different options, and you’re different criteria, and it gives you a new miracle score for each of the vendors. So you can say whoever has the highest score wins and has the advantage of waiting, so everything is not equal. Exactly because in reality, it’s not all right, what’s our next step now we’ve we’ve selected one, i presume we have a stage where we’ve we’ve chosen one, the chosen one, you’ve hopefully chosen wisely and everyone’s on board because you can straight that you did your own work and and then it’s time to make a plan like this isn’t the end really it’s the beginning of what goes in our plan? S o i like transition plan exactly the implementation plan on dh. I like to start with kind of the end date. So when we want all the users to be able teo, log onto the database and use it that’s the kind of what i start with, and then i work backwards from that until they get to today. So maybe, you know, three to four weeks before the end will be, like the soft launch where our power your users can go in and play with stuff and look at it and maybe, like a month or two before we’ll do that data migration on dh, you know, you just map it out and going backwards until you have today. We’re it’s like that. Everything you have to do right now. Okay. Okay. Let’s. Spend a little time on migration, because that could be very, very messy. We should expect a lot of support from the new vendor in migrating data. So that’s going to be something that you have to consider in your requirements document is how much support do you need to migrate your data? Do you have a lot of in house expertise or you’re going to need full support? And is this new database something that you know your i t team are your in house database experts can figure out and migrate your data into. Or is it a proprietary software that the vendor has to do themselves so that’s definitely something you want to consider while you’re looking at different vendors, what your need is in that respect, another option would be hiring a third party or an external consultant to come and look at your current data, clean up your database and migrated over for you. Yeah, this could be an opportunity to clean up your data. Exactly. Okay, up. Maybe you can include cleanup in the migration support that you get from the from the new vendor. Absolutely. Build that in. Yeah. I mean, just like every time you move your house. You kind of clean out your closet. Every time you migrate your data, you want to think about cleaning it up. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll we need to be very specific. I would think about what’s going to be included in the in the implementation plan that it be in the contract with the new vendor. Yes, absolutely. And most vendors will build that in usually it’s in like a number of hours that they’ll offer in certain packages to work on dahna migration on training, on support on dh, they’re all you know, most vendors will negotiate that with you depending on your organization’s needs. Okay, what’s, our next step now we we’re past the time line. Where are we now? We’ll hopefully you do everything on time, right? If your implementation over schedule, of course it doesn’t. But it’s a it’s an aspiration exactly off the goal. We’re talking in hypotheticals waken weakened dream. But even if not, you know and plan for that in your timeline to, like plan for what happens if everything falls apart and we don’t launch, you know the database on october first if we do it november first. Like how much of a catastrophe is that? What about december first? You know if it’s a cr m and you’re doing your in giving do you really want? Your database to launch on december first so, you know, planning for contingencies like that. But once you’ve gone through the timeline, once you’ve migrated your data over, you’ve gotten your staff trained on it, you know, your users air doing it, you’re getting good user adoption and really including them in the entire process, asking them what they want is going to be a big help to you and getting user adoption. Then you know it’s about just maintaining your database and keeping the support going and keeping your users engaged in using it and making sure it’s still doing what you’re doing is there much of a difference? And you’re free to tell me that it’s obviously the way whether the new vendor train’s just the power users like train the trainers, or whether they should be training all the users does that matter? I think, and and then the trainers would train the lower level users, right? Your internal trainer, i think there’s something to be said with training the trainers. You just want to make sure that you have enough to support your kind of lower level users so they can all get training quickly and also, one of one of your trainers leaves. Do you have another trainer? Do you have a program for keeping that knowledge and house, or will the vendor continue to train people on an ad hoc basis afterwards? So, you know, it’s, just the benefits and risks of having some stuff done in house versus everything done by the vendor, okay? And then, of course, ongoing support critical. Well, it really depends on again your in house expertise and how complicated the databases that i always think of smaller and mid size non-profit because that’s, what our audience is right, they they’re they’re less likely, and certainly they could, but less likely that they’ll have a lot of in house expertise around. Yeah, third base administration and day to day issues. So support is important. Yes, definitely. We still have a couple minutes left. What do you want to share that i haven’t asked you about? Goodness? Or more detail on something immediately, even if we talked about it. But any more detail? Yeah, i mean, i think one thing that we didn’t really have a chance to go into in depth is the idea of hiring a consultant to do all this with you, especially if you are a small organization or even a medium sized organization. You might not have a staff person with the time to do all of this research and, you know, talked all the vendors and go through all the trial periods, and you know, the advantages if you do it with the consultant, you have them come in, they assess all your needs one time, you know, they talked to all your respective users bundle that they already have a really good knowledge of all the different you know, database is out there and how they would fit so they’ll know which vendors to go to, which are the best options, probably in the first in the first place, and be able to pull it in and it’s assess it so you can kind of skip over the decision making their research part and go right into your short list. Where? You know you work with a consultant, teo, analyze the, you know, the top three best fits and they can make, like, a spreadsheet and analyze it and make it so you can, you know, defend it to your board and show that, like there’s, you know, research and due diligence was done on that, you know, it’s more expensive, but it’s off your plate and it’s off your staff’s plate. You could also be value in the consultant evaluating the state of your data. Someone objective who’s not likely to say. Oh, well, you know, there’s this problem in the data, but yeah, we figured out how to work around that. So it’s not a big deal when really, it is a big deal because you have faulty data. You’ve just developed a workaround. Exactly. Yeah, and then they can also come up with strategies for cleaning the data or people you may cos you may want to engage to help you clean your dad up. So it works for you the way you needed tio what’s been the pbs experience. Have have you done database change? We actually went through thiss process about a year ago. We were looking at changing our email marketing system and way kind of went through the first update our needs assessment talked to all the users, went back to our vendor, and they actually made a lot of changes in custom is asians to our existing system so it would meet our needs and, you know, and now there are just a really strong partner, and they’re consistently checking in with us to make sure that databases still meeting their needs. So it it is it really, you know, we didn’t end up changing databases, which saved me a lot of headache personally, and it gave us, like a really strong relationship with our current vendor. Have you had your session yet? No it’s tomorrow at three, ok? Because i was going to ask if you heard of any disaster stories that do you know of any migrations that went badly? Conversions went badly. We know of so many so many. I mean it’s. One of the reasons that i proposed this session is because migrations often happen too fast without enough thought and they end up just blowing up in people’s faces nobody’s happy with the end result and they end up, you know, a year later, after hobbling along with their new database, either switching back-up watching something different into a completely s o i am looking forward to hearing a lot of horse stories tomorrow you expect you expect to hear a good bit, but we could do this all much more strategically and smartly if we have this plan and process that we just talked about? Absolutely. And avoid the heart. Avoid being the next horror story of ntc twenty sixteen. Exactly. All right. Thank you very much. Michelle. Thank you. Michelle chapman, chaplain. Pardon me. Michelle chaplain is senior manager for online fund-raising at pbs. And this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference. Twenty fifteen. Thanks so much for being with us. Thanks to everybody at antenna non-profit technology network loved being at ntc this year. Next week get your emails delivered and did you know that there’s a job called emailed deliver ability specialist also the open movement. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com opportunity collaboration. The world convenes for poverty alleviation. That outstanding unconference that’ll ruin you for every other. Conference opportunity collaboration. Dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Janice taylor is today’s line producer shows. Social media is by susan chavez, susan chavez, dot com and our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for November 30, 2012: The Bequesting Brain & Donor Database Dungeon

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Russell James
Russell James: The Bequesting Brain

Professor Russell James at Texas Tech University does neuro imaging research to see subjects’ brains light up when they elect to put a charitable gift in their will. This former Planned Giving fundraiser and director of the Graduate Certificate in Charitable Financial Planning has research-based advice for your cultivation and recognition of bequest gifts.

 

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Donor Database Dungeon

Scott Koegler, the editor of Nonprofit Technology News and our tech contributor, wants you to keep your donor database secure, so nothing can escape. We’ll talk about inappropriate use, SQL, inference and overloads.

 
 

 


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