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Nonprofit Radio for August 22, 2022: Accounting For Nonprofit Leaders

 

Tosha Anderson & Zanni Miranda: Accounting For Nonprofit Leaders

In our penultimate #22NTC show, Tosha Anderson and Zanni Miranda introduce key accounting concepts to help nonprofit leadership avoid the common pitfalls they see. Tosha is CEO of The Charity CFO and Zanni is with Nonprofit Solutions.

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[00:01:51.40] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of pseudo papillae Dema if I saw that you missed this week’s show Accounting for nonprofit leaders in our penultimate 22. NTC show Tasha Anderson and Zanny Miranda introduce key accounting concepts to help nonprofit leadership avoid the common pitfalls. They see Tasha is ceo of the charity CFO and Zanny is with nonprofit solutions on tony take to the endowment excitement webinar, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c. O. And by fourth dimension technologies I. Tion for in a box. The affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant D just like three d but they go on to mention deeper here is accounting for nonprofit leaders. Welcome to nonprofit radio coverage of 22 N. T. C. The 2022 nonprofit technology conference. My guests now are Tasha Anderson and Zanny Miranda. Tasha is founder and ceo of the charity cf. Oh Zanny Miranda is operations Manager at nonprofit solutions. Tasha Zani. Welcome to nonprofit radio Thank

[00:02:05.94] spk_1:
you for having us. Yeah,

[00:02:07.50] spk_2:
thank you so much for having us on

[00:02:11.89] spk_0:
pleasure. I’m glad we’re gonna talk about this. But 10 things every nonprofit leader should know about their accounting

[00:02:17.66] spk_1:
Alright.

[00:02:23.44] spk_0:
I I suspect this is an often ignored um ignored area by by nonprofit leaders until there’s some kind of a problem I guess or until the the 9 90 has to be filed, you know, so maybe once a year they become, or maybe there’s board reports, but in between all that, um I suspect it’s ignored. Uh Tasha, do I have that? You’re nodding? Is that

[00:03:12.03] spk_1:
yeah, I think, yeah, I think it’s ignored because it’s for a lot of small organizations. It’s not their primary role. It’s not what they’re experienced in. It’s not their skill set and it becomes one of those things, it’s not an immediate issue. It’s not something I’m particularly good at, it’s something I’m gonna have to teach myself and I’m gonna have to um very kind of the procrastination that I put into it. And then it’s when things kind of abrupt Show up like our 9 90 return or we realized we have an audit or our books have gotten further and further behind and now we have to hurry up and scramble for that, you know, board meeting or something to that effect. Um that’s kind of best case scenario. Um worst case scenarios are other more significant things that might come up with our accounting. Um that that all of a sudden becomes more of a priority.

[00:03:34.21] spk_0:
Like, alright, we’re focused on motivation. What are what are one or two of those worst case scenarios?

[00:04:46.20] spk_1:
Well, some of those worst case scenarios, I think more abruptly we get a lot of clients that work with us that have a lot of government funding and government funding usually includes um some pop up surprise what they call site visits. So if you anticipate uh your site visit or kind of your audit, I use the word loosely with audit. But if you expect your funder to show up on, you know, this period and then they end up coming in sooner or more regularly, either normal or whatever. They just changed their protocol and you’re not prepared for that. That then calls into question your ability to manage the program, your ability to manage the finances of that particular program. And we’ve seen organizations be at risk for losing their funding. And we’ve seen that more often than not, which we’ve kind of talked about and the original presentation that Danny and I did some of the challenges around um not just, you know, keeping caught up with the accounting, but the succession planning um in the transition. I mean, we’re in the midst of what they call the great recession. And so what organizations do that put all of their eggs in one basket with respect to this kind of swiss be nice if you will position that holds also financial management. And when those positions turn over, we’ve seen organizations find themselves really vulnerable situations and it becomes very apparent when it’s time to start sending those periodic reports to your funders or when they start to come out, when you look at your records, it’s a problem.

[00:05:06.79] spk_0:
You’re referring to the great resignation. You mean succession planning. Okay.

[00:05:16.60] spk_1:
I’m

[00:05:35.54] spk_0:
listening. I’m listening channel. I’m channeling listeners. They’re gonna say, wait, great recession. That was many years. Alright. We know we know what you meant. Alright. So Zanny, why don’t you why don’t you kick us off? We got 10 things people are supposed to know nonprofit leaders are supposed to know. So let me ask you before we kick off with our our list. Is this specifically the C the C. E. O. Are we, are we at that level? You know, listeners here are small and midsize nonprofits. So that could be like one or two people up to. I mean 100 or 250 employees could be a midsize nonprofit. Are we in the meat with this? We’re talking about nonprofit leaders. I assume we are.

[00:05:57.71] spk_1:
I

[00:05:57.89] spk_2:
actually think that this information can be for any leader that is self designated or you know, does hold one of those executive positions. I think what we share in this presentation is really about making sure everyone is on the same page across the entire organization. So it’s really for anyone,

[00:06:28.03] spk_0:
uh, with, uh, okay. But we don’t want our Ceo and other other C suite executives ignoring these things. Certainly.

[00:06:30.92] spk_2:
No. Okay.

[00:06:32.33] spk_0:
Okay. All right. So why don’t you kick us off? What’s uh, what’s your

[00:06:37.25] spk_2:
first one is definitely benchmarks and metrics and making sure that you have defined expectations about what those are and how they fit with your organization and I’ll actually pass this one over to Tasha because this is definitely her area of expertise as the C. P. A expert.

[00:07:54.23] spk_1:
Yeah, sure. Uh, so really what we mean by defining benchmarks? Oftentimes, what we see is that not just the tactical work of bookkeeping and accounting is delegated to one individual, but almost the full financial management and responsibility. Understanding how much money is in the bank account. Are we receiving the funding that we thought we were, Are we utilizing the contracts that we’ve committed to our to our funders? Really high level, even where we are with our fundraising goals. And I’ve personally been someone that kind of delegated that responsibility and financial oversight. And I just think it’s imperative whether you’re a for profit business and non profit business at the end of the day, it’s a tax designation. It’s not just because you’re a nonprofit, you should not be delegating full financial ownership and responsibility of your organization to one single person. This is really where that leadership at the ceo level or executive director level, there needs to be some understanding of what your benchmarks are. What are you trying to measure in the holding people accountable to it? And I’ve seen so often where the accountant or the bookkeeper is delegated the responsibility of the budget and they might be doing the bookkeeping in the reconciliations and all that. But is anybody really looking at that budget and holding anybody accountable to it? So what we’re really encouraging is that the leader, you need to understand where things are and what expectations do you have? What processes do you have in place to make sure that you’re moving in the right direction? So

[00:08:19.70] spk_0:
following the budget doesn’t belong with the bookkeeper.

[00:08:23.50] spk_1:
The

[00:08:23.97] spk_0:
bookkeeper does the work.

[00:08:49.29] spk_1:
Yes, the bookkeeper prepares the reports, diving into Why is this off from what we expected? That is joint ownership, frankly, in my opinion, from from the individuals that are charged with that. So your program team, maybe your fundraising team. And I recognize we’re talking with small to middle size at a minimum. The Ceo is looking at this or the executive director and so often times I see uh leadership teams that are just delegating that responsibility and they’re not really immersing themselves in the financial management, the way that I think they should

[00:09:00.00] spk_0:
be alright. You didn’t have to, you know, you two don’t have to go in sequence. You could have picked one that you’re, that you’re an expert on. You know, you don’t have to do it the same sequence. You did it in your in your in your seminar. Alright.

[00:09:13.07] spk_2:
Well, I definitely wanted to make sure Tasha kind of came from the C P a standpoint,

[00:09:18.39] spk_0:
you know, make

[00:09:21.36] spk_2:
sure they all knew, Yeah,

[00:09:22.75] spk_0:
she’s the charity. CFO so

[00:09:24.30] spk_2:
she knows what she’s talking

[00:09:26.01] spk_0:
about

[00:10:08.64] spk_2:
and I have to say I come from the small nonprofit side. So we have a mighty team of three full time and one part time person. So we are, you know, definitely representative of some of the groups that are probably listening. So and these are all things, these are all things that we have learned through working with Tasha that um are very important and we went through a transition and planning and uh had a transition in leadership which then created a transition into changing our bookkeeper um to the charity CFO. So we went through a lot of what we’re talking about in terms of the the sort of scarier situations of how did we get ourselves in this situation? What does this all mean? Where all the, you know, how do we get everybody on the same page? So we definitely learned our lessons.

[00:10:21.81] spk_0:
Let pick one that you are familiar with that you can talk about what’s next.

[00:11:23.37] spk_2:
Yeah, let me take a look. So I know that so kind of speaking about like getting into a sticky situation or number four is I would have understand my compliance needs. And I think that when you do like Tasha was saying, when you have those government funders or even really complicated funding grants from foundations, sometimes they require progress reports, they require year end um reports that can be really calm complicated to do at the last minute and they can be really complicated if you have not set yourself up for success at the very beginning. And so one of the things that we sort of have said is that you really need to take a look at what the grant is requesting from you when they’re, when you’re in that grant search process. And before you apply or maybe right after you apply, making sure that you’ve got things set up with your accountant and things set up in your chart of accounts to make sure that when you’re going through and processing and actually spending money related to these grants, you’ve got everything in place, you know, from the onset, so that it makes it a lot easier to pull those reports and to get that information instead of scrambling and going through, you know, a year’s worth of credit card receipts.

[00:11:50.57] spk_0:
Yeah.

[00:11:53.20] spk_2:
Mentioned

[00:12:17.33] spk_0:
compliance. And there’s, there’s state state laws also depending on what state you’re in. You know, there are, there are the laws that you have to be registered in each state where you solicit donations, that whole charity registration morass that I used to have as part of my practice. Um, you know, keeping keeping track of that. Um, there, there could be, uh, other, I mean, there are federal, there are federal rules that have to stay in compliance with, so there’s, there’s a lot, there’s a lot in that word, compliance.

[00:12:35.20] spk_2:
Yeah, exactly. It’s not just the funding that you get, it’s making sure that, you know, the things that you’re doing are following the law all year, not just when someone comes knocking

[00:12:43.02] spk_0:
and and Tasha, these often come up in audits right? They’ll be they’ll be uh I forget with the technical terms, but they’ll be like memo items in uh report items in an audit that you know, you’re not in compliance with something here. Things like

[00:14:10.94] spk_1:
that. Yeah, findings. And what’s really interesting. I have a funny story when so I used to be a CFO of a non profit organization and we had 14 different government contracts that were a little larger probably than maybe an average listener. We’re about, you know, 6 to 8 million a year. And uh that’s that’s that’s to me that seems large because so many organizations are much smaller than that. But really that’s not huge and what’s really, we went through every single one of our program contracts and wrote down all of the things we’re responsible reporting out to them. So not just on the financial compliance side but also like program outcomes and those sort of things. Anyway, we had five pages front and back on an Excel spreadsheet when we printed it out was five pages, front and back of all of the things that we were responsible for reporting out to someone. And so the more more complex your funding gets, whether it’s multiple foundations or government funding sources. When we hear the word audit. I think we think at the end of the year we have a C. P. A firm that comes in and does an audit. But oftentimes what people don’t realize that you may have multiple audits or inspections or reviews or whatever word you want to use for the same funding, right? You might get um, you know, kind of beat up at a local level through some pass through fun. Then you might have that sourced through the feds and then the feds might come in and do an audit, right? And then your auditors that come in at the end of the year that you hire will also do an audit. So I think that sometimes I’ve seen our clients not necessarily read the fine print of those grant agreements to know what they’re going to be responsible for doing and what frequency. So they find themselves kind of working reactively and scrambling to get that stuff.

[00:15:57.46] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications media relationships and thought leadership. You need one to get the other. You got to have the media relationships. So you get exposure and become the thought leader. Turn to will help you build those relationships. They’re former journalists themselves. And by the way, as you’re getting that exposure, they’ll help you craft your messaging. You get the increased exposure. You’re seen as a thought leader in your field. The thought Leader, the thought leader in your field, they can make it happen. Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to accounting for nonprofit leaders. You wanna know as any said, you want to know ahead of time what the requirements are. First to make sure that you can comply with them. You have the infrastructure either internally or or through a provider to do it, you know, and if it’s if it’s beyond you, then that that’s not a grant that you should be applying for because you can’t keep up with the I mean the money may look nice, but you can’t keep up with the back end requirements and you’re gonna end up in a bad situation. Okay.

[00:15:58.93] spk_1:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:16:00.26] spk_2:
Absolutely. No.

[00:16:01.56] spk_0:
In advance. I’m sure this especially applies to a government, a government agency. Yeah.

[00:16:07.28] spk_1:
And that’s funny. We we talked about that a little bit in our session just because there’s money available may not be a good deal. Just what you’re doing, not just the infrastructure. Um, there’s a lot of considerations where it might make sense for an organization to not accept funding. Um, it just doesn’t make sense. And asking ourselves those hard questions before we just

[00:16:25.90] spk_0:
before, Yeah. Look, look closely at what your obligations, your responsibilities are gonna be. All right. All right, well, let’s stay with you, Tasha. Why don’t you give us another another thing. Leadership should know about.

[00:17:33.03] spk_1:
Alright. I think another thing that leaders don’t always realize again, because most leaders of nonprofit organizations, they don’t come from the financial business management side of the biz right? Oftentimes you’ll see leaders that maybe come from the programmatic side of things. Um, and that’s fantastic for a lot of reasons. But what I think some people default to hearing, well this just can’t be done or this financial report can’t be created in the way that you want. And I really encourage leaders of organizations again, to define those expectations of what they’re looking for and ask their account to develop tools that help them measure if we’re on track or not. And this is usually by way of financial reports. And I hear this all the time. Tasha, you know, I get the standard set of financial reports from my accountants. It doesn’t make sense to me. It doesn’t make sense to my board. We don’t know where we’re at, we don’t know which direction we’re heading and what I tell people all the time that financial reports, Yes, your auditors will require to look in this perfect box and it has to look exactly like that. But that’s for the outside world. Think about what your organization needs internally and create those measurements, those tools, those financial reports. That makes sense for you internally. So that you can make business decisions based upon that and what a lot of people don’t realize.

[00:17:52.75] spk_2:
We

[00:18:53.12] spk_1:
Have over 150 clients. Probably many, if not all of them have some level of customization to their reports. So they need to get reports that make sense to them, not already nonprofits have to have the same internal financial statements. In fact, you shouldn’t have the same internal financial statements and start asking yourself what do you need to see? So I’ll give you an example. I have one organization that was really, really cash strapped. They had all the revenue sources in place. They could not understand why are we cash poor, Why do we not have any money? And the reality. After a quick look at some of the financial reports, I realized they were building their funders but they were never collecting them. There were some issues with the quality of their invoicing and some problems they weren’t troubleshooting and poor training and just some other issues that are actually pretty easily fixed. But going forward once we were able to get caught up on that building, the ceo want to make sure that never happened again. So she wanted to make sure she got a detailed listing of what invoices were still outstanding because she started understanding the, the, the timing of when payments were expected to come in and once things started to go off track

[00:18:59.15] spk_0:
basically

[00:18:59.70] spk_1:
immediately, basically

[00:19:01.09] spk_0:
talking about tracking your accounts payable.

[00:19:02.88] spk_1:
Yeah, accounts receivable in this case or payable

[00:19:14.25] spk_0:
receivable? Your receivables? Yeah. I took, I took accounting for poets in college. So I do remember that, um, assets equal liabilities plus owner equity. Is that still true?

[00:19:19.74] spk_1:
That is true.

[00:19:20.97] spk_0:
Axiom still still valid. Like a law of physics doesn’t change. Okay.

[00:19:25.52] spk_1:
In the nonprofit world, we say we don’t have equity because there’s no ownership. But the concept is still the same. We called net assets in the nonprofit world, but the concept is still the same

[00:19:34.74] spk_0:
assets equals net assets. Oh no, we

[00:19:37.60] spk_1:
called the net assets. Yeah.

[00:19:39.61] spk_0:
But the other side is assets, assets equals net assets.

[00:19:43.54] spk_1:
You could do assets minus liabilities equal net assets or assets, you know, equal, you know, however you want to do the algebra of the formula, you could say in multiple different ways. But um, yeah, we say assets minus liabilities equals net assets, but

[00:19:58.75] spk_0:
assets, my stuff, that makes sense to me, assets. Everything you have minus what you owe your liabilities, which I know, I know I’m grossly oversimplifying by when I said what? You know, but again, I took accounting for poets. So you’ll have to excuse that. I’m trainable. I guess I wasn’t, uh, yeah, equals your net assets. Right. Everything you have minus what you owe is is the net

[00:20:21.20] spk_1:
okay.

[00:20:22.47] spk_0:
We don’t have to go any deeper than that. We shouldn’t.

[00:20:24.85] spk_1:
No one wants to hear that. But

[00:20:26.63] spk_0:
Not profit leaders should not profit leaders should, I’m not a nonprofit leader. So I’m not, I’m not on the hook for this. Alright. Um, name another one. Somebody. Somebody throw out another another top 10.

[00:21:32.17] spk_2:
Well, I think, um, following up to sort of, what Tasha was already saying is that you can have all those in place, but if you don’t have anyone, um, doing checks and balances or even around to take over key processes. If someone goes or if someone’s out on vacation, that’s a really major risk. You know, we were in the training or the workshop last week and a lot of people really resonated with this, you know, don’t burn out the one person you have on your team who knows how to do payroll? Who knows how to do vendor payments? Who knows how to do the bank deposits. There can’t be just one person on your team who knows how to do all these things. There needs to be some, you know, some thought to succession planning. Some thought too. Um,

[00:21:32.59] spk_0:
or not even not even succession planning, just like you said vacation.

[00:21:36.04] spk_2:
Yeah, just process documentation.

[00:21:38.00] spk_0:
You know, we got somebody goes out on maternity leave. We still have to process, we still have to process vendor purchase orders.

[00:21:52.11] spk_2:
Yeah, we had someone chat in the comments saying I’m going out on maternity leave, but I still have to process payroll, which is not

[00:21:53.91] spk_0:
great.

[00:22:14.59] spk_2:
That’s not great for your staff’s morale. So definitely just making sure you’ve got some of those basic processes written down, trained, um, cross trained with different people and having backups in place so that people can take a break and people can, you know, not have that looming over their head when they’re supposed to be on maternity leave

[00:22:20.03] spk_0:
or, or

[00:22:21.18] spk_2:
family leave, you know, it’s not sustainable.

[00:22:37.49] spk_0:
Um, I have seen that too, in, in uh, clients that I’ve worked with. I do plan giving fundraising. Um, and you know, we have, we need vendor, we have vendors, there might be, there’s, uh, you know, there’s a company that that manages the soft that provides the software for playing giving calculations. Well that purchase order has to be paid. You know, my purchase order has to be

[00:22:49.87] spk_2:
paid. It

[00:22:51.37] spk_0:
seems sometimes to be one person who can do it and we’re all, we’re all screwed if that person is busy or away or whatever. Alright, let’s stick with you. Give us another one.

[00:23:26.25] spk_2:
Sure. Another thing that you brought up was having the right software to use. So, um, you know, we found when we were in our sort of leadership transition in our, uh, you know, transition between bookkeepers. We just had someone who was, you know, taking our information and then,

[00:23:27.07] spk_0:
you know,

[00:23:27.81] spk_2:
kind of piecemeal putting it together, like looking at the paper receipts, looking at this and really it’s just not sustainable long term to do that. And there are so many options with technology

[00:23:38.44] spk_0:
now to

[00:23:39.84] spk_2:
really make the transition easier. And a lot of nonprofits do qualify for

[00:23:46.85] spk_0:
discounts

[00:24:08.43] spk_2:
for some of these larger tech companies, they have a lot of for profit people using their services. So they, most of the time will have a nonprofit discount or even offer their their software for free. And really it just becomes a matter of making sure that the people in your organization are up to speed. And um, I think Tasha had an incredible case study that she shared about what, how she saw this kind of go sideways um, in her own practice. Okay,

[00:24:35.66] spk_0:
Natasha before you tell that story, aren’t there? There’s also scores of smaller companies that are devoted to nonprofit financial management we through the years. And non profit radio I’ve had one or maybe two of them as sponsors. You know, there they’ll say that, you know, quickbooks is basically they’re they’re, they’re thinking is Quickbooks is not made for non profits. You have to be able to do fund accounting and things and you know, so we’ve got, we’ve got the software solution that’s an accounting financial management devoted to non profits. You don’t have to modify Quickbooks or Intuit or something. Or maybe intuit’s Quickbooks, I don’t even know.

[00:24:58.47] spk_2:
But

[00:25:03.05] spk_0:
counting for poets, but you know, um, so you don’t have to use these major companies that there’s smaller, smaller apps devoted to nonprofit financial management. Right?

[00:26:34.72] spk_1:
That’s right. That’s right. And it’s funny, I was gonna talk a little bit about that because I think that there are a lot of organization accountants that will say nonprofit accounting is super special and we have to have everything special. Um, and I, I don’t disagree with that completely. But the challenge is it creates a, it creates barriers for nonprofit organizations to be able to um work with some of these providers, especially if the proprietor like proprietary software or things of this nature, What I try to do with our clients is create software solutions that can work with nonprofits have a really low cost point price point on those things. And more importantly, the software is very user friendly. There’s a lot of free training resources. So we actually use Quickbooks. I’m not being paid to say that I have no formal partnership with Quickbooks, but I like the software because if they needed to bring their accounting back in house when working with us, they could find bookkeepers or accountants that have experience with with Quickbooks. And so sometimes I think it’s a matter of preference. I say as an account that has my own preferences for how I like to do things. I think it’s, I can say that, but what I think is um important for nonprofits to understand what technology is available out there to Sandy’s point and how can they use that to alleviate some of the manual um time consuming task going back to not burning out your one person that does everything. If you can find ways to autumn streamline that they can maybe focus on bigger value added work or just simply take a breather or focus on work that feeds their soul a little bit more than just doing data entry into the accounting. So

[00:26:50.44] spk_0:
Okay, Zanny said you have a story well

[00:26:51.15] spk_1:
in this particular case. Sure. Yeah, sure. So

[00:26:54.90] spk_0:
speaking

[00:26:55.97] spk_1:
of tedious work that burns people out and it’s very time consuming. So I started working with an organization way way back many, many years ago and

[00:27:04.76] spk_0:
they, this is not, this is not a story about.

[00:27:07.30] spk_2:
No not

[00:27:12.05] spk_0:
but it’s not okay.

[00:27:14.12] spk_1:
No I have a friend. No it’s

[00:27:15.73] spk_0:
not. Yeah

[00:29:06.76] spk_1:
exactly. No it’s about software and how software can change how we do things. So I started working with an organization which actually is now a client of ours um in a very contract away a few years ago and we realized that they were heavy credit card users, credit cards are debating the existence of all accountants out there for every nonprofit. I promised you can quote me on that. I’m sure. Uh And the problem is that there’s not a good system for collecting the receipts, it’s very manual. Um You have got a copy, you gotta scan, you got a code, you got to get into all the people. Anyway, they have about 20 credit cards that have hundreds if not thousands of transactions a month. The accountant, the finance director um is they hired that person for that high level skill analysis, Financial thought leadership. That person was spending a good week of her month. So 25% of her working days, reconciling and tracking down all of these hundreds of receipt if not thousands depending on the time of the year. And one of the things that we immediately realized this person actually left the organization and the organization was left scrambling trying to replace it. And one of the things we realized immediately, we could save a lot of time. If we just have software, your team is already making copies of the recedes, forwarding it to the account, the account has to use all these Softwares to stamp it with electronic approvals and all that. We could replace that whole manual back and forth email flurry of system with the software, like many of nonprofits out there now use things like expensive fi or dext or or something like this where the user of the credit card actually just takes an image identifies what type of expense it is if it’s designated to a specific funder, um, if it’s restricted or not and then submits it off to the accountant and the accountant just matches them up with what’s actually ending the bank account. So this whole flurry of hundreds and hundreds of unnecessary emails, all of this monotonous detailed work that you’re bogging your accountant down with. Um, now has freed up their time to be able to do other things. In this case, it actually saved them cost because we don’t have to do that much work and it’s not as labor intensive, but if you did have somebody in house that you wanted them to focus on higher value work that that’s more valuable to the organization. You can use technology to do that sort of thing. So I’ll echo what Danny had said.

[00:30:27.33] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Fourth dimension technologies. The free offer. It’s still out there exclusively for nonprofit radio listeners, complimentary 24 7 monitoring of your I. T. Assets for three months. They’ll monitor your servers, network and cloud performance, they’ll monitor your backup performance all 24 7. If there are any issues, they’ll let you know ASAP and you will get a comprehensive report on how you’re doing at the end of the three month monitoring. And they’re gonna throw in a few surprise offers as well. It’s complimentary, it’s on the listener landing page, tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant mention deeper. Let’s return to accounting for nonprofit leaders. Tasha, name those couple of resources that folks could look at again.

[00:31:03.46] spk_1:
So again, I like kind of uh out of the box like package is really easy to use expensive. Fi is a really popular one. Um dext formerly known as receipt bank is one. So those are two that work really well with Quickbooks are very user friendly. Um, you can have your people that use credit cards a lot of times they’ll have like apps on their smartphones and so they just take a picture of it while they’re out spending, you know, the money rather than worrying about lost receipts and things like that. So those are two really common ones that are again, really low price point and easy to implement. Easy to use

[00:31:09.49] spk_0:
is dexter D. E. X.

[00:31:11.25] spk_1:
T. That’s right, yep.

[00:31:12.88] spk_0:
Okay. And expense if I. Okay. Yeah. Alright let’s stay with you. Tasha give us another, we’re halfway through our list by the way I’ve been keeping track,

[00:31:22.99] spk_1:
we’re not combining any of these.

[00:31:24.99] spk_0:
Alright if we end up as long as

[00:31:26.49] spk_1:
well we’ll tell you when we run out,

[00:31:29.94] spk_0:
as long as we cover the content. You know it doesn’t we end up doing them uh 10 things but we ate you know ate under eight topics as long as as long as you’re not holding back on non profit radio listeners that

[00:31:39.14] spk_1:
we’re not holding.

[00:31:40.16] spk_0:
That’s my concern. That’s my audit. That is my benchmark. Is that the content is there doesn’t have to be under 10 distinct rubrics. But we have done five anyway. Alright.

[00:34:04.12] spk_1:
Okay so the next one I would say uh that uh nonprofits don’t necessarily realize that there’s not a one size fits all with accountants. And I think I realized this when I started hiring my own accountants and staffing um the work as the charity CFO for on behalf of our other clients. And what do I mean by this like any profession accountants and their experiences, skills and expertise vary. So I kind of divide up in this 80 20. Roll the infamous 80 20 rule 80% of accounting is very transactional input output. You need somebody that’s very good at attention to detail, very consistent, very reliable thrives and routine. They like doing the same things over and over again. There are a lot of accountants out there like that. Um They do a great job Then there’s like the 20% of accounting, that’s the creative accounting but not you know, go to jail creative accounting. I’m talking moving the needle with the organization, building better budgets, building financial models, really thinking how we can implement best practices or re imagining what our accounting function can look like implementing software. For example these are the visionaries. If you will, you can probably guess which one of those I am. I find that most organizations, all organizations need both of those skill sets, the challenge is oftentimes, although the label on the title on the resume or the job is accountant or CFO or controller or whatever, but the reality is there’s two different types of accountants. Now, some people could try to do both but that’s not where their skill set is. So if you took someone like me a 20% and you put me in a job where 80% of my time is doing, you know, detailed work on routine tasks. I’m not gonna stick around for a long time, I want to do things that feed my soul and on the flip side if you take a more transactional tactical accountant, that’s really good and you expect them to solve all of your financial world problems, you’re probably not going to get as far as you would hope. And I think that many organizations think that they could hire an accountant to do all of those things and and I think that that’s not realistic and that’s why we see some turnover in these roles um or organizations struggle with, I just need somebody that does both of these things. And I don’t think people really realize that accountants are not all the same. And so many organizations, money is not such an abundance that we can just both of those accountants.

[00:34:13.35] spk_0:
So

[00:35:27.46] spk_1:
a lot of nonprofits have to decide what’s most important. How can I get both of those um Accounting needs met tactical detail because that’s 80% of the work, you know keep the wheels turning and the bills paid. Um and but how can I also get that financial thought leadership that I’m looking for. So what I’ve seen in some cases that organizations will maybe higher and operate person, I just did a podcast the other day saying like nonprofits are quitting their accountant and what I meant by that is non profits are moving um similar to Danny actually probably speak better to this than I organizations are moving to more of an operations person that’s kind of the hub and spoke and they’re outsourcing outsourcing some of that technical work right? Maybe it’s hr maybe it’s accounting, maybe it’s I. T. But you still have somebody that can maybe do some of the tactical work because they’re on the front lines. They’re interacting with the staff in a more significant way. Or maybe they’re outsourcing that financial thought leadership. Or maybe they have a financial thought leadership in house but they’re using some other staff people to help do some of the bookkeeping. So that again you keep people doing what they do best um and creating work that’s meaningful for them. So not all accounts are created the same.

[00:35:31.32] spk_0:
Not all made the same

[00:35:32.19] spk_1:
as the biggest takeaway.

[00:35:33.35] spk_0:
Alright. Um I have to ask though, are there any accountants who would say I’m in the 80%?

[00:35:39.97] spk_1:
Absolutely.

[00:35:41.15] spk_0:
I’ve got a whole team.

[00:35:42.20] spk_1:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny because I have 32 employees and I would say probably 70% of my staff falls into that and we need to make sure that people see a path that they can take on additional responsibilities but not so much that they’re gonna be overwhelmed. Um

[00:35:59.67] spk_0:
I thought maybe all accountants think they’re in the creative,

[00:36:03.16] spk_1:
definitely not.

[00:36:06.28] spk_0:
Not that they actually are but that they think they are. It’s it’s a self image question.

[00:36:10.31] spk_1:
Well that’s a great point. I sometimes think as accountants are known to have maybe inflated egos of herself. If I dare to

[00:36:20.20] spk_0:
say. All right. That’s that’s where it was coming. That’s where I was coming

[00:36:22.06] spk_1:
from not

[00:36:23.07] spk_0:
where they are but where they think they are. All right, well, we’ll uh we’ll concede that you’re definitely in the 20% because you you can’t run a company called the charity CFO if if you’re if you’re not be the otherwise you’d be the charity bookkeeper,

[00:36:37.98] spk_2:
you’re

[00:36:39.11] spk_0:
not the charity bookkeeper. Alright. Um Danny, you want to contribute something.

[00:38:53.16] spk_2:
Yeah. So, you know, as Tasha was talking and and sort of talking about how, you know, technology needs. Like everyone can just use decks to take a picture and know what account to send it to and have everything all easy peasy kind of ready to go and like technology takes care of it, blah blah blah. Well, you can really get yourself into trouble if you don’t actually know what the structure of your accounting system is. So let’s say you have a program person who is using dext or even just you know, trying to code something on their receipt to share with their accountant. But they put the wrong chart of accounts. Well, the accountants just gonna do what the person told them to do. Say, okay, it’s in this one you told me to put it in there. Um And you don’t want them to be creative with that. You want the budget to match the chart of accounts. You want the chart of accounts and all of the expenses to go to the right place. But you don’t really know if that’s going to happen correctly. If you don’t train the people on the ground making the expenses sending in receipts if they don’t have the right information and you’re not kind of sharing that widely and having everyone understand with the chart of just the very basic things are and what, how to code things for your accountant. You’re really gonna get way off by the end of the year, you’re gonna, it doesn’t matter what fancy technology you have or if you have a 20% or 80% accountant, they’re doing what you’ve asked them to do. And so making sure that you’ve kind of got everybody buttoned up and, and learning what the basics are for your chart of accounts. And there’s not gonna be uh, one size fits all, like list of chart of account for every organization. That’s definitely something that comes out of programming comes out of requirements from your funders, It’s all related to your specific business. So we definitely went through some growing pains as we transitioned and had to essentially redo a lot of our chart of accounts because we realized our accountant that we had previously was sort of getting a little creative about which we didn’t provide any direction. And so they got creative on each month where these different same expense was going in a different chart. And so you have to sort of figure out how to unravel that. And then if it gets too far down the line, it’s really hard to do, it takes

[00:39:22.55] spk_0:
a lot, I don’t I don’t quite understand this one that you have to, you have to, so so you can educate me the way we were all supposed to educate the people who are spending the money when you say the chart of accounts, what why? I don’t understand why this is to everybody who’s out spending money, like you said, share the structure of your accounting system with widely, I don’t I don’t see what why that’s important.

[00:40:27.22] spk_2:
So let’s say, I mean I do this on a regular basis, so this is sort of my job is to make sure everyone in our organization knows what’s going on and how things code correctly. So, you know, let’s say at the beginning of the year, we’ve coded our organization provides professional development training, leadership training and um does some consulting work related to that as well. So we take a lot of our programming and we’ll bring it in house to people. So those are two different things. We have workshops that are open to the public and we have specialized consulting work that we do. So let’s say we have a consultant or a facilitator that we’ve hired to do a workshop. Well we’ve got a different chart of accounts essentially for saying how to split that consultants time. So we have one bucket that says, oh this is our consulting expense. But if you just put it in there and say, oh that’s a consulting expense or you know, this is a hired outside facilitator that we’ve brought in. But we don’t say whether it was for our workshops or for the, you know, the on site consulting specialized work that we’ve been contractually obligated to do with an organization.

[00:40:47.28] spk_0:
How

[00:40:48.49] spk_2:
are you going to know how much you spent

[00:40:50.86] spk_0:
for

[00:41:12.37] spk_2:
each of those different program types? So you really can have, and we have the same facilitators and they do different types of work for us at at all times, but we want to know at the end of the year what was our expense for our consulting work? What was our expense for our workshops and things like that? So we have to be very deliberate and understand when someone’s sending in an invoice or sending in a receipt that they’ve sort of coded that correctly.

[00:41:50.67] spk_0:
Okay, so it’s all a matter of like allocation to the right allocation to the right uh budget line or or general program area. The way you’re describing, you know, you have to you have two distinct areas, You are Alright, so allocating expenses and revenue, obviously two to the right, you know, not just that, it’s it’s just not generic revenue, but, you know, because at the end of the year we want to know what our expenses and our revenues are like in across. Well, in your example, you know, on both sides of the work that you’re doing, right? The public workshops and also the private consulting,

[00:41:58.74] spk_2:
right? Yeah. And so that can be really complicated if you let it sort of go down the wrong path. But you’ve got one of those really complicated federal funding grants and you’re not supposed to allocated a certain amount to this program. It’s really supposed to go to this program. Um,

[00:42:16.88] spk_0:
and

[00:42:17.10] spk_2:
you can kind of, you know, can be a lot of a bigger process to undo later on.

[00:42:22.88] spk_0:
Right, do it right the first time instead of trying to do forensic accounting to try to figure

[00:42:27.65] spk_1:
out. So

[00:42:28.76] spk_2:
it’s important for people who are, who are sending in those, you know, those pictures of their receipts on decks or expense. If I too have coded it correctly, before they send it to the accountant to make sure that they understand what account it’s supposed to go into or come out of.

[00:45:01.97] spk_0:
Okay, very helpful. Thank you. It’s time for Tony Take two. I’ll be on a panel endowment excitement, fundraising and management end quote. So where are you with your endowment? Do you have an endowment? You might be at zero or maybe you have a mid size middling endowment or you’ve got a vast endowment. The other three folks will be able to help you with endowment management principles. You probably don’t have a vast endowment. I bet there aren’t too many listeners who have vast endowments, but for the outliers, there’s something for you in this panel as well, for the vast majority of folks, no endowment or teensy weensy, itsy bitsy endowment or something in the middle. I’ll be doing the planned giving fundraising part of endowment excitement, fundraising and management. I’ll be the fundraising part. Talk about how planned giving is enormously valuable for endowment starting or endowment building. The other three folks there, the smart folks in endowment management. So we got the fundraising, we got the management doesn’t matter where you are in your endowment status capacity robustness, if you like. There’s something for you. It’s August 25 at noon eastern time. Oh and I should say we are sponsored graciously by an ex unite. Thank you and next unite. So to make your reservation, you go to N X unite dot com and you click webinars and panels and if you can’t join us on august 25th at noon, sign up and you’ll get the video. Of course it’s 2022 naturally. So I hope you’ll be with us either live or archive. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for accounting for nonprofit leaders with Tasha Anderson and Zanny Miranda. Tasha. Your turn. You wanna, you wanna contribute.

[00:45:49.01] spk_1:
Yeah, yeah, I’ll contribute a little bit more to that one. But to kind of sum it up for me what I tell people. There’s usually a lot of frustration. I don’t understand my accounting and I usually tell people, it’s not that you’re using quickbooks and quickbooks is not sophisticated enough. It’s that it’s not set up the right way and then the user that’s using it is limited. And what I tell people kind of garbage and not that the work is entirely wrong. Right? It’s accurate. The dollar amounts accurate, the vendor is accurate, but if it’s not in put a certain way, then you’re not gonna be able to get reports out a certain way. So you kind of have to think more globally. Uh, you know, how do you want this to come out and then you have to understand the intricacies of the system in order to get the end result. So what Danny is referring to is just understanding high level, what is it that you want to see? How is that information can be put out and then making sure that the inputs are going in the right way so that you don’t have that forensic accounting that you mentioned trying to go back and figure that out. And so many organizations go through that forensic accounting exercise every time they have a simple report. Um, a simple report.

[00:46:17.39] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve seen some of that. I know it’s it’s expensive. It’s, it’s time consuming. Didn’t have didn’t have to have been done badly to start with. All right. Let’s move on. Let’s move on,

[00:48:42.83] spk_1:
moving on. So the next one I would say, um, that nonprofit leader should share more about their financial information in their financial position with other people within the organization. And what do I mean by that? I kind of alluded to it earlier that I have been in situations where it’s just the Ceo and I carry the weight of the financial management, the financial, he’s right. And I’m not just talking like, oh my gosh, we have enough money to make payroll. I’m talking about being the person, the point person to explain to the board why we didn’t hit our fundraising goals, why our program contracts not fully utilized, why we were over underspending and salary expenses because we have vacancies in the various departments or what have you. Um, and that’s kind of what we’re talking about. It all kind of feeds together. So if we understand what those KPI S, those benchmarks, those metrics for measuring, we have an accounting structure in place to properly categorize and track these things, not just by thunder, but by department we customize our reporting in a way that’s meaningful. Maybe that that translates to creating a income statement or a financial report, a budget actual by department and then sharing with those that run those divisions of the business, their area of responsibility. That’s where I like to get to that the fundraising, you know, professional within the organization actually gets a periodic report. So they know what they spent in order to raise the money and where we’re at and what we expected them to do the same with the program team, same with anyone else that has that area of significant responsibility. And so often I see that again, the financial person and the ceo bear that responsibility and they end up being the money. Police, can I spend money for training? No, can I do that? It’s kind of crushing for morale a little bit that you have to police every dollar spent. And in a perfect world we would include all of these individuals in the budgeting process. Okay, fundraising department, what what do you need to spend this year? And how much honey are you bringing it? Same with the program team. You know, all of the different people involved. I like to get input from them. They give me their budgets on what they believe they need to spend to meet the outcomes and the objectives that they’ve laid out to do. So if that means we need to add another staff person, if that means we need to pay for more programs, supplies or go to a couple conferences, whatever it is. Um, let me know. So that when whenever you come and say, hey, can I, you know, attend this conference this year, I can then in return say was that in your budget and assuming the cash is available, people start owning their own things and there and we hold them accountable right,

[00:49:19.57] spk_0:
Right? Like delegating responsibility for the budget that you’re responsible for rather than rather than as you said, you know, having to ask, I mean you’re, you’re empowering folks, you’re educating them and empowering them to spend their budget responsibly. And obviously, you know, that’s part of performance review and, and, and through the benchmarks and the metrics that we talked about first, we’ll know whether you’re, whether you’re doing it accurately or

[00:49:26.46] spk_1:
not

[00:49:27.23] spk_0:
wisely or not. I guess it’s probably better than accurately, but Okay, Alright. So like delegating, delegating budget responsibility and accountability as well, of course.

[00:49:39.06] spk_1:
Alright, where’s

[00:49:43.20] spk_0:
the role of the board here, Tasha in should it just be a quarterly review of of the overall financial picture? Should it be every board meeting? Let’s take a board that meets, take a worst case scenario, a board that meets monthly. Do they need to see a monthly financial picture? Can it just be quarterly, semi annual? What, what do you think?

[00:52:09.36] spk_1:
Yeah, So that’s a great question. I think it kind of depends on the organization, uh, small struggling organization, I think probably needs more oversight than one. That’s pretty well figured it out and they’re pretty mature. I would say kind of best practices that you always provide financial reports at every board meeting. Um, maybe you don’t pour over it in a huge level of detail, but the reality of the fiduciary responsibility is up there with one of the top board responsibilities. So I personally would never recommend having a board meeting for which finances were not considered solely for that reason. Um, I will say a lot of the nuts and bolts of the oversight, the financial oversight. Oftentimes happens at the finance committee level. So oftentimes the finance committees will be reviewing more detailed reports on a monthly basis, asking whatever questions they need to ask, then, you know, usually a summarized version of that information is given to the overall board. I mean, we don’t definitely don’t want to spend board time discussing why we’re overspending and office supplies. Right? When we’re ignoring the, you know, the big elephant in the room on why we’re off of our fundraising projections by 50%. I think you had those conversations before. So we want to keep it really high level. Um, but the, the details get done at the finance committee level and the, um, the, the high level discussions happen at the board level. And I’ve seen the spectrum of some boards that are really involved in the financial management so much to say that it probably crosses the, uh, you know, some boundaries in terms of your role is oversight and not actually managing the organization. Um, and then I’ve seen some words that are probably too passive, uh, and will come back around once financially the organization starts struggling. And what I’ve seen that consistent, um, a consistent presence and a consistent accountability from the board. That’s what keeps organizations in a good place. I mean, if you just keep coming in and out once things start to get a little rocky may be having some consistency and some accountability will keep the pendulum swinging from one way to the other. So to answer your direct question, every board meeting I think should have a financial review. Um even if it’s only five minutes to just update everybody on, are we on track or we off track is usually what I like to tell people

[00:52:31.79] spk_0:
and it helps to have a finance committee that’s paying closer attention. If you’re, you know, if your board is has that expertise and and frankly is big enough, you know, a five person board may not, may not be big enough to have a finance committee and you don’t want to have just one person looking at it because that that’s a mistake. I think

[00:54:00.86] spk_1:
I want to say something to before we go into the last one, I don’t want to run out of time. But what I think is the most important thing cause I wanna, I wanna validate what you’re saying that not every board is big enough to have a finance committee. Um and not every board has an abundance of accountants lined up trying to join their board. I recognize that fact, what I think is really important, what I think what I like to do for our clients is to create the financial information um presented in such a way that they can have the board can ask questions and have fruitful conversation. What do I mean by that? Oftentimes they get all these really long reports with all these numbers. They don’t actually know what any of it means. And there’s this intimidation level where many board members just don’t feel comfortable asking questions out of fear of looking silly or uneducated. Right. And so what we do, we put together an executive summary. And so I would encourage anybody listening to have their account and create some sort of executive summary to give a narrative that explains the context or what’s really going on and more of a written format. Because if you just simply give financial reports, you’re gonna keep butting up against the same problem. So what I try to do is create a process that will drive conversations at the board level. So if we write, hey, we are off from our fundraising goals. This is a red flag or you know, maybe not in those exact alarming words, but they may not necessarily interpret that just by looking at the report. So, but if somebody read that, they could say, well, what are we going to do about fundraising?

[00:54:11.56] spk_0:
Right, context.

[00:54:14.57] spk_1:
Yes. Yes. And I think that that engages boards more to have some of those financial conversations. Um, so if that’s not being done, I would really recommend

[00:54:24.64] spk_0:
that. All right. Sandy, you have, we should be wrapping up with another one or two unless we combined or something. But as long as the content is there, you have, Do

[00:54:31.81] spk_2:
you think we combined a couple, particularly around succession planning and making sure you’ve got your processes in place? Because they’re sort of,

[00:54:39.89] spk_0:
we didn’t leave anything out there. Well,

[00:56:31.28] spk_2:
there’s one thing that I think Tasha was almost alluding to and if you if you’re answering yes to any of these questions, does my organization feel siloed? Are we not getting the right reports from my accountant as my program staff and development team, not communicating any of those details about what requirements are or when reports are due. If your board is sort of questioning things and they can’t figure out what’s happening if any of those things are happening, it’s really not your accounting, it’s your culture and so making sure that across the board accounting doesn’t just stop with the accounting team. It doesn’t just stop at the Ceo or the chief or executive level, I should say. You know, it’s really a team effort. Everyone in the organization, from the receptionist to the program staff to the board president, they all need to know maybe not every single detail of course, but they need to have a general picture and an idea of what is happening in the organization. And some people need to have more information than others. Like I would say, a program staff person needs to know very detailed information about their accounting as much or as the same amount. So they can have a great conversation with the accountant to make sure that they’re on track that they’ve got their budgets aligned and sort of creating a culture where you’re unsure what the other program team is making and how much money they have to work with versus how much you have. You know, why does my executive director keeps saying no to me spending money on these things that I think will boost morale or will actually get better outcomes for our program. What’s happening is that if those are questions that you’re having, it’s really time to examine what’s happening in your culture and maybe try to change some of that, um, sort of fear or change some of that mindset around sharing information about money,

[00:56:56.55] spk_0:
accounting may not be your problem. Maybe something deeper. Sometimes technology is blamed to the technology may not be the problem that maybe the culture in the organization Zanny where is nonprofit solutions and where are you? You may not be in the same place as

[00:57:46.31] spk_2:
I know. Now, now everyone can be everywhere. Of course we are based in SAn Diego. Uh, that is not our geographic limit though for nonprofit solutions. I also live in SAN Diego. Um, but we are online, so we do a lot of virtual workshops and trainings and we can also do our contractual work. Um, so if anyone wanted to hire us for leadership training and um, we do have a lot of management training for new managers. So that is all can be done virtually and we’re now that things are starting to get a little bit easier to to come together. We used to do everything in person and so now we’re slowly getting back to in person but I would say the majority of our work is virtual so we can really be anywhere in any time zone. What’s

[00:58:04.96] spk_0:
the website for nonprofit solutions?

[00:58:06.91] spk_2:
It’s N. P. Solutions dot org.

[00:58:11.39] spk_0:
Okay, Tasha, where where’s the charity CFO, wherever you are, That’s where the charity CFO is.

[00:58:27.72] spk_1:
That’s right. Well, our office, our headquarters and all of our team are based here in ST louis Missouri. So although we work remotely with our clients, our team is centered here in ST louis. We do have not Office, we collaborate here, however, um only about 30% of our clients are here in ST Louis, the rest are all over the country from coast to coast. So we work with clients all over the place in the United States

[00:58:38.12] spk_0:
and what’s what’s the website for charity? CFO,

[00:58:40.91] spk_1:
yep, it’s the charity CFO dot com.

[00:58:44.29] spk_0:
Okay, I love I love Missouri because I lived for five years in Warrensburg. Warrensburg where where Whiteman Air Force Base is,

[00:58:53.37] spk_1:
I

[00:59:03.01] spk_0:
was in the Air Force for five years. So I lived in Warrensburg, we used to spend more time in Kansas city because it was closer but we went to some ball games in ST louis. Okay. All right. Uh Tasha Anderson, founder and Ceo of the charity CFO and Zani Miranda Operations Manager at nonprofit solutions. Thank you very much. Thanks for each of you sharing. Thank you.

[00:59:19.83] spk_1:
Got

[00:59:22.92] spk_0:
a great balance between professional C P A. And the the practicing learning client who’s who’s got some significant accounting responsibility but not a C P A. I love the balance. Thank you

[00:59:32.47] spk_1:
very much. Thank

[00:59:33.73] spk_2:
you. Thanks

[01:00:48.65] spk_0:
to our listeners for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 22 N. T. C. Thanks so much for being with us Next week. Our final 22. NTC show your tech problem is actually a people’s problem. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c. O. And by fourth dimension technologies. Their product is I. T. Infra in a box, the affordable tech solution for nonprofits, but they’ve got the free offer going on. So that is at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant D just like three D. But they do want to mention deeper. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein, Thank you for that. Affirmation Scotty B with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95 go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for March 14, 2022: Nonprofit Emeriti With JoAnn Goldberger

JoAnn Goldberger: Nonprofit Emeriti With JoAnn Goldberger

We’re kicking off a new feature, highlighting long-career retirees from the nonprofit community who have ideas, wisdom and experience to share. JoAnn Goldberger is our inaugural Nonprofit Emeriti guest. She shares strategies for getting your org to the next level. You’ll find her on LinkedIn.

 

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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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[00:00:10.04] spk_0:
Hello and

[00:02:07.34] spk_1:
Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. You’re aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh I’m glad you’re with me, I’d be forced to endure the pain of pancreatitis analysis if you secreted the idea that you missed this week’s show, non profit temerity with Joanne Goldberger, we’re kicking off a new feature highlighting long career retirees from the nonprofit community who have ideas, wisdom and experience to share Joanne Goldberger is my inaugural non profit temerity guest on tony steak too. The jargon jail rules, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s a big pleasure to welcome my inaugural non profit temerity guest, Joanne Goldberger, She had a successful 45 year career as an idea confetti bomb in nonprofit management and fundraising. She’s looking forward to retirement at the end of this month. Her only for profit job was many years ago with the largest Mcdonald’s franchisee on Long Island in new york. Since then it was Mount Sinai Medical Center of greater Miami alexander muss high school in Israel headquartered in Miami carol Child care center in Baltimore junior achievement of central Maryland and finally retirement out of barks Baltimore animal rescue and care shelter Where she grew their $750,000 budget to over $5 million dollars you can find Joanne on facebook she’s retired and linkedin why bother Joanne Goldberger, welcome to nonprofit radio and nonprofit emeritus.

[00:02:12.04] spk_2:
Thank you so much tony and hello to all of our guests today.

[00:02:16.84] spk_1:
Yes, well you’re the guest there. The listeners,

[00:02:19.49] spk_2:
you bring

[00:02:23.94] spk_1:
Them in as guests. Yes, we have 13,000 guests. Absolutes. Congratulations. Congratulations on your retirement.

[00:02:26.58] spk_2:
Thank you. Thank you so much.

[00:02:29.14] spk_1:
What a career.

[00:02:30.24] spk_2:
It’s hard to believe 40

[00:02:32.21] spk_1:
five years.

[00:02:36.54] spk_2:
Who? Thanks now I feel old. Oh, come on. No, you got you have wisdom. It’s not, it’s not longer than most of your listeners lives. That

[00:03:18.84] spk_1:
Could be, I don’t know. Yeah, there’s a lot of listeners who are under 45. That’s probably, that’s, that’s true. But you have wisdom, its wisdom, not age. It’s wisdom, wisdom and experience. Um, no, it’s terrific. Congratulations. And uh, so you have, you have advice around and you’ve done this at many organizations getting to the next level like getting off a treadmill. What does, what does it look like? What, what does, what does the problem look like before we get into your, your ideas about get growing beyond it.

[00:04:03.34] spk_2:
Well, first of all, I’ve been with some grassroots organization and that’s exactly what it is. It’s a grassroots movement to conceive about the organization and what it can be and it’s, it’s a lengthy journey. It’s, it’s not an overnight process. So especially for those newer nonprofits and even the middle nonprofits, you need to give yourself about five years and I was very fortunate when I joined barks because I was there at the time, their first director of development. And they were wise enough to know that they wouldn’t see major results until about five years and that’s an important thought for executive directors and their boards to know when you’re embarking upon a process that it does take time and it really did take every bit of five years.

[00:04:38.74] spk_1:
Yeah. All right. So you need a long term view. But, but what is the problem look like? What what what is the, what is a nonprofit that needs to get to the next level? You know what like small, there’s lots of small donors pursuing small gifts. Talk about, talk about what the symptoms are. You know what it looks like.

[00:05:06.54] spk_2:
Um, I like to call it the moneygram because that’s what we were doing. We, um, our goal was to raise $8 million 750,000 And most of the gifts are small gifts like 50 or $65. So we were burning ourselves out trying to grab all these small gifts and you can’t do that.

[00:05:08.50] spk_1:
And your your goal was $8 million. And you were coming nowhere near

[00:05:11.82] spk_2:
It, nowhere near, not even near $1 million. Yeah. Because that’s an awful lot of small gifts to grab.

[00:05:20.23] spk_1:
It. Can’t be done. It can’t be done 50

[00:05:32.94] spk_2:
dollars at a time. No, it can’t not. And with a small staff no less to um, very few people juggling so many plates and you also need a strong board with a fiduciary responsibility. The board also has to help lead the process.

[00:05:53.14] spk_1:
Okay. And we’re gonna, we’re gonna get to, we’re gonna get to them. Absolutely. Um and events right. It’s like hosting small events That bring in $1000

[00:06:34.24] spk_2:
or $1900 like two or $300 or 300 at the time. There were only 3.5 of us in the development department and we were doing literally dozens of these tiny events every week. So we were killing ourselves and not really raising it any money but we were working around the clock, go to this event on monday and this one on Tuesday and free on Wednesday and you really need to keep the big picture in mind and really grab towards the larger dollar events and also major donors as well because it’s wonderful to have those small gifts but you really need some serious cash infusions.

[00:07:08.64] spk_1:
Yeah. Alright. So It starts with you and you just mentioned it, you know, thinking bigger, realizing what you could be. I mean so barks had an $8 million dollars goal. They were coming nowhere near raising any, not even close to that. But so they had a conception of themselves as a much bigger agency but they didn’t have a plan for getting there. They just kept doing the same thing like you can’t keep doing the same thing and expecting different results year after year after year.

[00:08:59.84] spk_2:
And that’s exactly right. And we, we felt the need to break away from the norm and that took the buy in of our executive director, who was also the founder of Bar barks to take a leap of faith and say, okay, we’re gonna stop this, tell me a minute, see the bigger picture and envision how barks could be raising millions of dollars. And one of the things we started to do right off the bat is we had an annual signature event. We still do, it’s called barks Tober fest and it’s our largest fundraiser of the year. And we struggled, struggled to raise $165,000 each year without one event. And that was through sponsorships and other smaller donations. And it it was a struggle. And then we said, okay, we’re gonna try something new. We’re gonna try instead of it being a community celebration of pets, it was going to be a celebration and reward for peer to peer fundraising for people who raised the funds for pets. And then they’re gonna party hardy at park Stober fist. And we went from the first year of raising 165,000 to over $300,000 just in the first year because we had people who are our supporters were actually raising the funds for us instead of the department, struggling to raise those funds, which of course we did too in terms of sponsorships, but it was awesome to have hundreds of people raising the funds for us and also building awareness remarks at the same time.

[00:11:10.84] spk_1:
All right. So you need to, you need to be willing to experiment right to pivot away from what you’ve been doing for year after year and it’s not getting you even to 1/8 of your goal. Uh, you need to be, you need to be willing to try something different. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They have a free webinar coming up. It’s on March 24 crisis communications, they’re gonna walk you step by step through a crisis communications protocol because you ought to have a plan for a crisis or at least the outline of a plan for how you’re going to manage internally and to the outside some kind of major problem crisis that that befalls you. Um, you know, we don’t even, we don’t even want to get into what the possible crises are. You can imagine them. So I have a plan. If you don’t have a plan or at least the outline You can join turn to its on March 24. If you can’t join live, then you sign up and they’ll send you a link to the recording. That’s the key is the recording. So you go to turn hyphen two dot c o slash webinars now back to nonprofit temerity with Joanne Goldberger, let’s talk about getting this, the executive buy in on, you know, not only the october fest, but you know, on, on, on the, the bigger conception. I mean the Ceo had it in mind though because, because there was an $8 million goal. But how did you get the buy in for pivoting the plan or just like scrapping what you had been doing and moving to something very different? How did you get the Ceo to buy into

[00:11:51.14] spk_2:
that? You know, that concept? Well, it was a process. She was already almost there because she knew we had to raise millions of dollars or the organization was going to falter. So in order to do that, just like what you said, we can’t keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting bigger results. You already proved like this is what you can raise, but this is what we need to raise. Um, and by hiring a director of development because I was the first one that they ever had. Um, they were already half on board with the idea. They knew they had to do it. And so she was trusting and we, we’ve had failures, but we’ve had more successes than failures.

[00:12:59.54] spk_1:
Alright. We’re gonna get to the, the need, you know, talking to donors about the need, We’re gonna, we’re gonna come to that, but we gotta get the, we gotta get the internal first. Um, and you know, of course, you’re sharing your experience from barks, but this was experience gained over 45 Well before barks, I guess it was 35 year career. You know, you knew what needed to be done. It’s not just, you know, this is just come to you and barks. It takes time to develop the confidence in, in a different strategy and then being able to persuade the C. Suite or the one person, the Ceo and then the, and then we’re going to get to the board, you know, about what the potential is and how best to go about this. You know, this, you know, Barcs was the culmination of a 45 year career. So you know, you gain this wisdom over a career and then Barks became the, The lucky recipient of all your 35 years of

[00:14:38.04] spk_2:
experience. And as a matter of fact, um, I had a background in marketing and public relations in nonprofit management. So it all came together at bark. So I didn’t know what to do. I was a little mortified that it was just me and 2.5 other people that had this lofty goal because I knew how much work it would take, but I was very motivated to do it. I wanted us to succeed. Um, and so I started to put a plan in place and you’ve probably heard this other times that those people that can achieve the most get the most handed to them. So in addition to having to raise at that point, several million dollars, I also had to do all the marketing, all the pr all the social media and raise the money and so everything I would come in, I looked like a deer in the headlights, like how could this be? And back in the day. I love how you’re laughing about it now. But oh dear. It wasn’t funny at the time. I know. Um but at the time if I could make one post to facebook and then two months later make another post, that would be an accomplishment instead of engaging others like you’re supposed to. But there was like no way I could get it all done. So I always kept my eye on the prize of how are we gonna raise more money because we need all hands on deck.

[00:14:44.94] spk_1:
All right, the board. How did you get the volunteer leadership to accept this? Radical change in in fundraising strategy.

[00:15:15.44] spk_2:
That too was a process because I was used to working with very high powered boards. Certainly a junior achievement. It’s all suite c suite executives from the Fortune 500 companies. And even when I worked at the alexander must high School in Israel, our benefactor with Stephen must The son who owned the fountain blue for 50 years. The fountain blue

[00:15:19.94] spk_1:
in the fountain blue in

[00:17:37.64] spk_2:
Miami in Miami. Absolute. So he wrote, I had to go pick up a check, he wrote us a check for $1 million dollars just like that, just like without the checkbook and wrote it. So when I came to barks who’s on the board, of course nobody I recognized, but it was all crazy cat ladies and I’m one of them, so I could say that and you know, pet loving people, but they had absolutely no sphere of influence. Um they weren’t able to give on their own give or get for that matter. So that was one of the hardest and longest term processes process um, to turn the board over into a fundraising board. And that took pretty much almost my entire time at barks, which got to start somewhere um because without a board with a fiduciary responsibility, you’re never going to get into the, to the bigger fundraising dollars so slowly but surely we were able to have those board members roll off and they were very dear kind people. We found other places for them at, but not on the board. And one of the first things we did was we increased the giver get which they didn’t have one. You didn’t have to even make a financial donation to be on the board at that time, but we increased it to only $3000 and that got rid of the vast majority because none of them were able to give it or raise it or get it. Um and so slowly but surely we started to bring in more notable people because as many people know if you want C suite executives on your board, they’re only going to be on a board with other C Suite executives. They need other people. And so that was a long process in identifying um members of the board that we wanted and to go after them to attract them. How do you

[00:17:42.34] spk_1:
entice the first couple of of transformational board members? The first one or two or three? How do you? And then I could see, you know, okay, now I could be affiliated with somebody else who is prominent in the area, but but that first one or two, how do you get? How do you

[00:18:36.74] spk_2:
get them? That’s a great question. tony The first thing we did was mine our database to see who’s I mean we had thousands of people in there, but who are they? And lo and behold we had a few Baltimore Orioles and at the time, but it was right across the street from Ravens Stadium, M and T Bank Stadium and Camden yards, we were right, a stone’s baseball throw away. And so we saw that one of our not donors, but one of our adopters was matt Wieters at the time. And so we reached out to him.

[00:18:40.74] spk_1:
I don’t know anything about, I don’t know anything about

[00:18:42.59] spk_2:
sports. It’s OK, he’s not an Orioles anymore, but his wife is still on our board.

[00:18:48.02] spk_1:
The Orioles. The Orioles is a football

[00:18:49.91] spk_2:
team. And now it’s it’s Baltimore oil Maryland’s baseball team.

[00:18:54.14] spk_1:
They played baseball.

[00:19:41.64] spk_2:
Okay, okay. And they used to be quite famous. Not so much now that they’re reconfiguring, but back in the day, that was a big deal to have a sports figure tied to Bart’s. So we reached out and they love their pets where they adopted from us and they agreed to be on the board. Oh, that’s fabulous. Amongst our volunteers. Of which parts has 400 active volunteers. We had somebody that was very engaged and he was um higher up in the Teamsters Union and he was very interested in joining the board and he had he knew everybody in Maryland. He really did. And so he brought with him several other board members and that’s how it started to

[00:19:52.29] spk_1:
get started. Alright, brilliant. So you, by the way, I knew that the Orioles is a baseball team. I was I was I was messing with you. Um

[00:19:59.74] spk_2:
They don’t know now though,

[00:20:02.04] spk_1:
that’s what

[00:20:03.00] spk_2:
most people don’t know who the Orioles are now. All right. What happened to them? Well, they had a changeover in players and they’re they’re they’re they’re struggling but they’re they’re on their way back.

[00:20:16.04] spk_1:
Okay, but they’re still there. They’re

[00:20:17.54] spk_2:
still in Baltimore. Okay.

[00:20:34.44] spk_1:
Go Yes of course I say that all every day I wake up saying goes um All right, so that’s alright, brilliant. You mind your own database, you found a prominent person who has a multiple adopter? All right, so it was in it was there all that time?

[00:20:37.84] spk_2:
It was

[00:20:39.14] spk_1:
right. And someone who could be a very uh major donor to you also.

[00:20:44.64] spk_2:
It

[00:20:45.95] spk_1:
is there you go. Alright, I see. And then then you got your guy from the teamsters union and then it snowballed from there

[00:20:53.54] spk_2:
and, and that’s okay.

[00:21:20.44] spk_1:
And these are folks who are going to want to be on a high powered board. Uh, so they’re gonna start to recruit their own folks as the, as the union guy did, uh, their own friends as as as donors as well as fellow board members. And the organization starts to gain prestige and not these, you know, $350 events on a Wednesday afternoon. They’re gonna think these are folks who are going to think bigger.

[00:22:34.84] spk_2:
And I have to add in that all along the process. We were building the bark story because it started off as a very sad story. We took over the animal shelter from the city who was euthanizing 98 Of 12,000 animals that came to us annually. And by raising more money we put in, we put into place more life saving programs. So gradually over time our live release rate has been at 90% since 2018. So it became the gem of Baltimore city that has so many sad stories coming out of it. But this was really a wonderful story to tell of how we were saving animals lives. And it was due to the entire city. I mean the donors, the supporters, the government, everything. Um, truly took a village. So by creating that story for barks more donors came and larger donors came and more board members came because they all wanted to be part.

[00:22:55.44] spk_1:
Okay. telling the story telling the story of how you turned it around from the, from what a city agency was doing. You almost turned it upside down from 98% kill to 90% live live and survival. Alright. Um, how does grants, How did grants? Manship grants writing play a role in this transition.

[00:24:33.14] spk_2:
So that was a very, very important role because in the beginning we had no $1000 donors, very few $100 donors for that matter. And here I came from a background with people, you know, writing a check for $10,000 or a million dollars and we don’t even have our 1st $1000 donor. So I knew from my past history in grant writing but to get a large cash infusion in the door so that we could start building programs for bars. We needed to write grants. And of course that fell on my shoulders also. Um, But I started investigating grants writing and I got our first grant and probably the first four months that we were there, um, for over $25,000 and then grew it from that point on. But that too is a process because while grants is a huge portion still of the barks budget, it brings in now almost three quarters of $1 million, you have to have okay support from your staff or your volunteers to maintain that grant, you have to implement the program, but you also have to be good stewards of that funding and do all the grant reporting that’s necessary. That comes along with it. But you can always look for volunteers. You can always look for freelance grants, writers. But it was one way I knew to get large amounts of money in the door somewhat quickly

[00:25:16.34] spk_1:
and look if you need to go outside, you know, if you do need to hire someone to do grants as you said, either on a freelance basis or maybe a part time basis, you know, maybe maybe one of your transformational donors can fund that fund that for you. So, you know, you’re, you’re trying to do you share with them the vision for where you’re trying to get to, you need some bridge money. You need grants manship, you know, could it could a donor or to help you across that bridge with by funding some professional help. If you don’t have it in in, in the form of a volunteer or in their inbox case, you know, you were there. Um, but if you have to pay for it, maybe you can get a donor to help

[00:25:30.94] spk_2:
you. That was another thing that barks always does. We always try to get everything. We can donated first before we would ever lay out any money. Um, there’s a wealth of places you can turn to for anything,

[00:29:21.14] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s take two just recently on linkedin, someone that I follow posted about jargon. So I of course had to mention that I have drug in jail on nonprofit radio and she said, oh, you know, sounds like a good idea she had posted against jargon. I’m not sure if there is a pro jargon lobby, but she was anti jargon. So she loved the idea and then she asked, how does somebody get out of jargon jail? So that was the impetus for me to uh codify jargon jail enforcement. So we now have a jargon jail enforcement protocol, which I am going to read from because you know, I don’t want to misquote the statute because the slightest comma or word, you know, can make a difference in statutory interpretation. So here’s our drug and jail statute. If a guest defines the jargon on their own, they’re sentenced to only probation, no jail time. Then if I have to call them out as offenders and they show contrition and then define their jargon, they’re granted parole. So if I have to identify it and then um, they do show contrition and then they define their jargon. Okay, they get parole. But if there’s no contrition and or no definition of their jargon, they remain in drug in jail and I shut off their mic end quote. Now that draconian punishment has never been meted out on nonprofit radio but it remains on the books, it’s on the books show host. Oh well I guess there is a little bit more show host is judge and jury and there are no appeals available. Okay, end quote. So there’s our jargon jail enforcement regimen statute for jargon jail. I have to give credit to Claire Meyerhoff, our creative producer. She came up with this idea At the beginning of the show 12 years ago. She thought of Jargon jail of course when when someone transgresses the drug in jail statutory enforcement mechanism is triggered against that scofflaw. It has to be, we have to have a, we live in a society based on law and order, right? We know this. So there has to be guardrails boundaries around bad behavior That is Tony’s take two, we’ve got boo koo, but loads more time for nonprofit temerity with Joanne Goldberger and I hope that you are enjoying this new nonprofit radio feature, non profit temerity, let’s turn outside now you start, you’ve got a, you’ve got a much stronger board, a giving board. You’re telling a very different story about barks. Um, the Ceo has been on board for years now you’re starting to go out to external folks. You know, attracting major donors. Let’s talk about how you get those uh, you know or whatever stage it came at, you get those first several $1000 donors and then you’re looking for investment level donors, 10,015 25 $50,000 donors. How do you start attracting these folks?

[00:31:36.84] spk_2:
Well, one thing that we did when we started to get some funding in the door, it was a necessity, a necessity to grow the development staff, Joanne couldn’t do it all anymore. It was, it was too hard. So we started to grow the development staff, which today from 3.5 people when I started is now 10 people. So it’s huge. But we were very fortunate that the leadership and the executive director saw the need like, oh, who wants to add development staff? Nobody wants to do that. They want to add everything else, but they realized in order to make money, you have to invest in the staff. And so we started to grow people internally who could cultivate these major donors and take the time again to look in the database. Because what good was amassing a database if you’re not doing anything with it. Um, and looking to see who those people are. And as you probably know, people love to give to success, not rats off a sinking ship. They want to get, you know, gone are the days of um, terrified fundraising, where it’s like, oh my God, we’re gonna close our doors if you don’t give us money, well, nobody’s gonna give you money because you’re closing your doors. So why should they? But if you could build a story of success and get that out there, um, the donors come to you and that’s exactly what was happening. As soon as we started to get a few $1000 donors, we got more and more and then we started to get monthly donors, which we never had. Um, so we started to build up that base of monthly donors as well. And the board was doing and is doing a tremendous job of attracting others to also donate to Barks.

[00:32:07.14] spk_1:
So the organization has to invest in growth and then the, and in which includes investing in fundraising. You know, you hire professional fundraisers and then you can get those donors to invest in the organization, but you have to invest in growth first in your own growth and then you can attract those investment level gifts

[00:32:36.94] spk_2:
and you’ll also have to paint your organization’s picture as once as, as one of success, no matter what’s happening internally, you still have to paint a positive picture because if you don’t, unfortunately you’ll be dead in the water. Um, because for many years, Barks was euthanizing for space every day Every day. But we didn’t paint that picture. We painted a much brighter picture and a better day where we would be able to reach a 90% live release rate and that’s what people wanted to hear. And that’s what we were able to achieve with their help

[00:32:54.64] spk_1:
right now, we’re getting into the, uh, Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos territory. Remember you know the woman with the pin prick, you know what I’m talking about? She just just had her

[00:33:04.75] spk_2:
trial the

[00:33:06.50] spk_1:
Pin the pin prick technology that was going to diagnose 30 or three

[00:33:09.89] spk_2:
100 different

[00:33:15.14] spk_1:
additions. Yeah. Alright. Right. But you you achieved, You got to where you were telling people you wanted to be, you got to that 90% live release rate

[00:33:46.14] spk_2:
and that was always um the apple or the carrot that we were reaching for um That that was always the mission of barks to turn around that 2% live release rate and change it to 90%. So we knew what we had to do internally. Forget fundraising. We knew what we had to do internally and add all those life saving programs to do it. So that’s why I said in addition to fundraising, you have to be building your organization story and that’s what we were doing behind the scenes and that’s what we were doing with every penny that we raised.

[00:34:09.84] spk_1:
Okay, excellent. Thank you. What did you do with some of those crazy cat lady, former board members. How did they

[00:35:24.84] spk_2:
were really crazy tony It’s a, it’s a term of endearment in animal welfare to call somebody a crazy cat and they’re crazy about cats. But we had like I said a huge volunteer program, we needed cats socialize ear’s and dog walkers. So they clearly loved cats, so we trained them and it’s like come in every day and work with the 110 cats that we have every day, they need socialization so that they could get adopted. So they were happy to do that. And I kid you not somewhere quite piste off that we all of a sudden said, Okay the give or get is $3,000 and they just like stormed off and you know, there was nothing really we could do about that because in essence while we would love to have them back as a volunteer, we wouldn’t love to have them back as a board member. So we had to let those people walk. But um some of them stayed on as volunteers and either door walking of cats socializing. So we’re happy to have them. And I think they were much happier doing that than being on the board.

[00:35:29.54] spk_1:
Okay. Alright. What else? What else haven’t I asked you about now that to make this transformational change.

[00:38:36.52] spk_2:
What other advice do you have? One other thing that barks is really known for is out of the box thinking for how to raise money. Um and I’m gonna give you a few examples in a moment. But if you know who your constituents are and what they love, You play to that audience. So let me explain still to this day are average gifts is only $65, but we get thousands of them and when Joanne was doing social media, that was a joke because I really wasn’t. Right. Right and never looked back. But when we had enough funding, the first person that we hired with, somebody that lived with social media and did social media for bart. And she’ll tell you um, that she was working 24 7 because 23 in the morning, she was checking her phone for anything that she posted, she was engaging donors, um, or engaging followers. And so we used to have a following of 7500 followers and today it’s almost 200,000 and having that many also attracts many corporate sponsors and other people interested in you being an influencer. So that was one of the things we did and she was super creative. So we know that our funding bases primary primarily millennials. And so what do we do? We and this is all attributed to her who is now. She’s taking my role as I twilight away. She’s the director of community engagement we had. And some of you, some of your listeners may have seen it or may have seen it around the country Because everybody knocked us off once we did it bad pet portraits for $10 And our staff and our volunteers draw the most hideous pet portraits you’d ever want. Um, you would pay $10 and send us a photo of your pet and somebody would draw it. Now some of them were beautiful but some look like the pointed teeth. They look like vampires. It was great, but it was so funny and so unusual That it raised us $10,000 with just $10 donations. We had a dog wedding a few years ago because we knew our audience would eat it up and they did the tickets sold out like crazy. And we raised $30,000 from it and we got every single thing donated including The hotel Banquet Hall, all the food, all the liquor, all the music, everything was donated. I don’t think we laid out $300 for the whole thing.

[00:38:49.92] spk_1:
And you married

[00:39:38.52] spk_2:
a dog couple because that was blasted across social media. Everybody couldn’t wait for the big day. We had flour kittens, not flower girls with flour kittens. I mean that was the whole shebang. And one thing I always wanted to do was have a bark mitzvah and I never got to do it, but will one day, but I always had a tiny one. It was many years ago, but I really wanted to do a big one based on the success of the dog wedding and the bride I had was handicapped and had a wheelchair attached to our hind quarters and a very handsome groom. That’s that’s just a well I love you know, yeah,

[00:39:44.55] spk_1:
I love the bark mitzvah too.

[00:39:45.92] spk_2:
That’s yeah, I always wanted to do

[00:39:48.70] spk_1:
that’s better bark mitzvah is better than barks to Beerfest Octoberfest. Alright. But bark mitzvah

[00:39:54.96] spk_2:
works better. Alright.

[00:40:10.91] spk_1:
They’ll get there. All right. But the but the lessons are again, investing in the organization. They they they hired a social manager, somebody or somebody who was deeply invested, obviously deeply loved animals and

[00:41:19.61] spk_2:
All those stories. And that’s another thing. You know, when I was doing my one post every other month, barks gets in 30 to 35 animals every day of the year. There’s so many stories were never lacking for stories and that’s prime for social media, but I couldn’t do it. I definitely needed a person and now we have almost three people at barks doing it because there’s so many followers and there’s so much engagement. A lot of it comes from it and I have to add one other thing. We raised $350,000 a year. Just on Facebook, just from those followers, be it their birthday celebration and they have a fundraiser or just asking outright for donations for very specific animals. Um we raise a lot of money just on facebook, so it was well well worth the investment because the board and the executive director would say, well, you know, we’ve got to pay 40 or $50,000 at the time to hire somebody plus the benefit package. How do we know we’re gonna make that back, We’ll just in facebook we’re raising $350,000 a year. So I think we made it back? Excellent investment,

[00:41:49.81] spk_1:
right? Multiple times. Alright. But that’s an interesting point. What do you say to that? Well, how do we know, how do we know we’re going to get a return on this person? We got to pay $50,000 plus 20 or 30% for benefits. What, how do we know this is gonna be fruitful for us?

[00:42:22.60] spk_2:
And again, it’s just a matter of trust and knowing what could be. And it was a gamble. We had to see and everybody at barks a super motivated, they truly loved animals and will do anything to succeed. And she certainly did. And the money started rolling in. But it could have gone the other way. It could have. But we did our research and we were pretty confident that we would be able to raise a vast amount of money just with social media.

[00:42:37.20] spk_1:
Okay, Again, the willingness to try, you can’t keep doing things the same way as we said, willingness to try something different. Make make the investment

[00:42:38.44] spk_2:
All right. And I should add one other thing if it was to fail. We had plenty of roles in fundraising for her to take over instead. So even though she was doing social media, believe me, there was plenty of place for her if it didn’t pay off.

[00:42:58.90] spk_1:
Yeah. All right. So what does barks look like now after the transformation, you said you said 10 people is that 10 people doing fundraising

[00:43:55.60] spk_2:
all, all different aspects of it, including marketing, public relations and social media. Um it’s all lumped together as um community engagement. So we have somebody just working with corporate donors. Two people working with social media. I was doing grants writing. Um, and then we had other people working with donors under $250 and over $250. So everybody has a little piece of the puzzle so that it’s manageable because in the beginning it wasn’t manageable. Um, we just had to try everything. But you know, this high burnout when you, when you’re juggling that many plates, um, without extra help. So we’re very fortunate now that everybody is doing a certain aspect of development.

[00:44:05.69] spk_1:
So what does barks overall look like now is a $5 million dollar a year agency.

[00:44:10.37] spk_2:
So the goal is still $8 million. Alright, well you’re a lot

[00:44:14.92] spk_1:
held a lot closer than you

[00:45:12.99] spk_2:
were. That that would be the tipping point for barks where we would be able to do everything that we really wanted to do. So we were already raising close to 5,000,002 years ago before Covid, then Covid struck. So of course we had to pivot along with the rest of the world and it was truly grants and the payroll protection plan that helped keep barks afloat during Covid because everybody feared their fundraising tanking and we were very fortunate for the past two years To maintain our fundraising level at $5 million. So we sustained it? But we didn’t grow, but at least we didn’t shrink either. So now we’re starting to bring back in person events, dog weddings coming back again this year. Um, And so we’re poised to start increasing and heading again to that $8 million dollars goal, which is achievable. It’s just, we had a two year slowdown along with everybody else.

[00:45:45.39] spk_1:
All right. Uh, it’s a, it’s a terrific story of transformation, but it’s built on your, On your 35 years before that and now a 45 year career, you know, that that’s the, that’s the value of experience. You know, what to do

[00:45:50.08] spk_2:
have survived

[00:46:31.08] spk_1:
And, and or how to get it done. You know, it’s fine to have an $8 million dollars goal, but you have to have a plan for getting there. So, you know, all the things we talked about about conceiving your organization differently. Getting executive buy in dealing with the board, getting thereby in talking to and transforming the board. Talking to donors about the need, expanding the donor base, grants manship as a transitional tool. That was key. Um, telling the right story, transforming the organization. You know, it’s, these are great lessons, Joanne, your, your, your perfect. Thank you. Congratulations.

[00:46:33.27] spk_2:
Congratulations.

[00:46:41.08] spk_1:
What you did at barks, Congratulations on your retirement, Joanne Goldberger, you’ll find her on facebook, which makes a lot of sense, linkedin. How long is that linkedin? You’re gonna, you’re gonna stay on

[00:46:44.99] spk_2:
linkedin. Why why bother it’s gonna say retired job. Okay, right, yeah,

[00:46:56.88] spk_1:
put some confetti bomb around that. Exactly right, all right, Joanne, thank you very much.

[00:46:58.33] spk_2:
Thanks for sharing your most welcome. Thank you tony

[00:48:16.88] spk_1:
If you know someone appropriate for nonprofit radio temerity, non profit temerity on nonprofit radio please nominate them. You can use tony-martignetti dot com. You can email me tony at tony-martignetti dot com. They should have retired From a long career in nonprofits at least 30 years and please they should have good ideas. Please don’t nominate a mediocre lackluster retiree that’s the status is reserved for me, although I’m not retired yet but I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna have to tell somebody that their ideas are mediocre or middling so please don’t put me in that position. Smart retirees, those are the ones we want smart retirees with a long non profit career, let me know about those folks that is non profit temerity next week fail forward if you missed any part of this week’s show I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c. O our creative producer is claire Meyerhoff

[00:48:34.48] spk_0:
shows social media is by Susan Chavez marc Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein? Thank you for that affirmation scotty be with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the The other 95

[00:48:43.68] spk_1:
Go out and be great, mm hmm.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of fei bro dysplasia, pacific cans progressive. If you exhibited the tendency to miss today’s show i t c suite cross talk how do we improve the relationship between it and management? Our panel from the non-profit technology conference is joshua peskay, eh? At round table technology and robin jenkins with the hope program and capacity call out capacity means nothing until we unlock what kind technical managerial fund-raising board steve, hi with nets sweet encourages introspection and shares assessment tools and models that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference on tony steak, too. A big lump of thanks, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s here are joshua peskay, eh and robin jenkins. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ninety sea it’s a non-profit. Technology conference in new orleans were at the convention center, and this kicks off day three of our coverage coverage, cracking like a fourteen year old. This interview is sponsored by network for good, not by the penguins. It’s actually sponsored by network for good, easy to use dorner management and fund-raising software for non-profits i’m joined by penguin one joshua peskay eh? And robin jenkins and robin also robin’s show your penguin for those who are not do not have the privilege of the video. Robin and joshua both have blow up penguins, probably three feet tall. Blackfeet black beak andi joshua, who were these courtesy is a courtesy of soap box engaged. They have a booth entirely filled with these giant inflatable penguins and have been doing that for the last ten years started when there was a lennox day preceding the conference that they brought the penguins for. Okay, so the penguins are not gonna be able to join us. We do have enough head sametz easy, joshua put it, had you on his? Yeah, we’re goingto neo-sage you’re putting the heck out of my head, said it’s, all stretched out now i think i have a fat head amy could take that for you. Thank you, amy. I don’t know. Wait. I would just leave this here. Okay. Uh, penguin madness on the third day of the and thank you to woobox who’s it’s a fox and gabe woobox neo-sage thank you very much for that. Nice folks. Joshua peskay a is vice president of round table technology. And robin jenkins is chief financial and operating officer at the hope program. And your seminar topic is unmet. Expectations and intervention between tea and non-profit leadership. Is that correct? That’s, correct way. Yesterday waited another session yesterday. All right, strategic tech planning. Yeah. Now you’re complicating my problems are today. We’re talking about bringing penguins i t and management together. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Can d’oh? Well, we did mostly multi task. You can’t wait to be single. Single focus. All right. Like direct mail. The best direct mail, you know, single single purpose. Yes. That’s. What non-profit radio? Okay, so, let’s, start with you, robin. What what’s the problem between management and why? Why? Why do we need this session? Well, sometimes they can’t talk past each other with different languages on dso, making sure that we can converse and a common language helps us to get to our end goals? Yeah, and joshua what’s the implication if we’re talking across each other well, i think that technology people in particular are guilty of not thinking of communications as a really critical part of their job and one main component sessions to be here. It is, yeah, it is an absolutely critical part of their job. And when they fail to communicate effectively, two executives about technology than the organization’s needs are ultimately unmet. That’s the unmet expectation in the title. Okay, so, robin, i understand. So, robin, you’re the you’re the leader in the leadership, a strata of this organisation, correct. And joshua was the vice president of technology. And what technology and technology strategy. Okay, tech guy robbins, the leadership. So he’s, actually, our vendor. So we actually a chance to practice in real time. Okay? Workflows kayman okay. You work together? Yeah. Let’s. See, you mentioned something. Well, now we’ll get to that about offers of children and skills. We’ll get to that. How do we how do we start? All right. Everybody needs to come to the center, you know, in a common language, right? I mean, he’s got their technical language. They tend to be very graphical. Maybe leadership, maybe not so much interested in the graphics. Is that? Is that a part of it? Okay, well, i was gonna say in the session were actually encouraging people there’s, there’s something in marketing that’s called a buyer persona where a market are actually develops an overall picture of the person that they’re attempting to sell. Tio what are they looking, what they read, what they listen exactly, you’re familiar with that, so we’re persona donorsearch dona we’re we’re giving them a template to develop an executive persona and encouraging people to actually create one. And then look at that when they’re thinking about communicating with executives around important strategic technology initiatives right now. But is it only the tech people who have toe come to leadership? Shouldn’t leadership be coming coming now? I was coming down. That’s not right, but coming, yeah. Reaching across the aisle wuebben their circle toward the circle that common space is that a common elliptical between the two circles? Yes, it’s. Not all on it. So, that’s, how i take my role is being able to straddle. Both groups and making sure that leadership is held accountable for how they communicate and what they need. Okay, so they are accountable as well. So should we start with our leadership persona? Is that is that a good place to can we develop together? Way could yeah. E-giving visual on someone you get included in the thing. Okay. Could be a link to it or were shooting video. We can. You don’t have. We don’t have a visual with you. I have it on my phone. But abila small. Okay? Yeah. If you had something penguin size, i do not have anything coincides and for just a small persona, but it’s a big personality. Okay, so how do we start now? The persona is different for every organization i write. I mean, for every person in every way. But we’re trying to reach to the c suite. Exactly. Or for the people who spend the money, you could okay. Who could be sponsors? Could be champions. Okay. Yeah. In a small organ might only be the executive director. Correct. We’re talking a lot of mean were there are twelve thousand listeners are small and midsize. Shop some of the marrow, you know, two or three people, right? So it may be a fundraiser. Executive director on dh, you know, maybe a marketing person. Morning communications. All right. I think these skills, though, in this workshop are are incredibly useful for anyone’s who’s communicating with someone who has a different perspective from themselves, which is essentially everybody all right. Because that’s really not more complicated, the fact that their executives is just part of the session title ultimately it’s about how do i who has one perspective communicate effectively with someone else who has a different perspective about a common need that we have but don’t think we have. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. So, it’s not only i t and management let’s. See? Amy, you have those, okay? The penguins are local. We’re going to call on them. Right? I told you this is this’s improvised penguins, by the way. Incredibly effective communicators. I mean, it zoho their way. They have to find each other right in a sea of penguins. Where are they? All look the same. What? Find each other? Oh, yeah. Find individual penguin you’ve never seen like march of the penguins. That thing with the guy? You know that the female penguin comes back with the fish he’s gotta find like her killed turner in, like, a million penguins. That all look the same. Like, how do you do that? We’re gonna call doing through communication. They have a unique calls that are very, you know, very effective. Why don’t we just create a penguin persona? Oh, yeah. It’s got the alliteration like a really big fan of fish cold weather extremes lighting on belly bilich magazine reader subscriber like water parks love the slides in water polo yeah, okay, all right. Let’s, let’s stick with our likes, polar bears. You know, you know, sharks are just starting with joshua peskay non-profit radio, so watch it or i’m shutting our eyes. They put the penguin in your seat and you’re out. Penguin talks a lot less than you do on robin and i will continue all right. It’s time for a break pursuant. Their newest paper is the digital donation revolution. You’re online donors have high expectations of you because of the swift transactions that they could do it amazon, zappos and other fine retailers that have easy user experiences the digital giving bar has been raised how do you get over it? Get the digital donation revolution the latest it’s on the listener landing page. Tony dahna em a slash pursuing to radio now back to it. See sweet cross talk. Okay, let’s, build our see sweet persona. How do we how do we start with this? So if i think of actual examples in my own organization, so i have a staff member who was very open and eager for change change but doesn’t always understand how that can impact their lives. So i have to make the tool that we’re thinking about implementing real to this person. How will it change? So i asked them questions. What do you do? And what would this have with this tool? Improve your work efficiency, your understanding, communicating with others, getting things done quickly worked quickly. So that’s how i begin to approach it. Okay on dh who is it? That’s asking these questions? Eso i’m asking the questions of the staff person of the person no more of this just not even someone who has either. Is aversa rights he or someone who doesn’t have much experience with it? Ok, ok, so we’re going a little broader than just okay. Okay, good. By the way, the penguin is also better dressed in you. The color blue is not becoming skin like pencil radio. Howard stern was nicer way sometime. Okay? And then what do we do with the answers to these questions? Right? So then i translate them to round table or two. Joshua i say this is the thieves or the people that i have. Then how can we make sure that we can communicate our pitch the proposal properly in the way that they can understand it and approve it? I mean, in the end goal, my goal is to get it approved. So how do i get to that place? Okay, joshua. And then what are you doing with this information that robin’s giving you? I’m really helping to make sure that we’re understanding not on ly what problems the organization has, but what challenges the executives have that we need to understand and communicate about how we’re going to overcome a lot of executives may be pressed by either they are intimidated by the technology that that might be changing, and they might not want to talk about that with other staff, but that could be a block for them or they have other pressing priorities that aren’t technology related and don’t think this is really worth their time, so if if we need their time and we need their buy-in what? Usually we d’oh understanding their challenger, okay, is critical something? I heard it in an interview i did yesterday duitz seems related come to me with a solution, not a problem. So you’re you’re suggesting not not just coming to the leadership in the decision makers with what the issue is, but with technology solution, but that also includes recognizing their needs and what their challenges are not just the challenge that you’ve identified, i’ll put it really succinctly, i shouldn’t come, teo, if you’re the executive, tony, i shouldn’t go, and i’m the me and robin like that like that i should like asking you for the problem. You’re the one who tells me the problems we say, oh, great here’s a way that we think we can solve that, then you say here’s some challenges that i have with that, like, oh, if i have to learn a new piece of software, i’m not sure that i’m ready to do that? We say, oh, here’s, that we can help you overcome that challenge so that we can solve this problem for you. Okay, if i don’t know those things and i don’t ask, you’re not you’re not querying the leadership. You don’t know what the troubles are, so i can build on that a little bit with a specific example. So my executive director, she has a really special quality of asking a lot of questions. That’s what i’ve learned is, if i can think through what she’s going to ask and what she’s going to need it, i can get it down to two questions based on our conversations, and i know i have i’ve solved a lot of her problems if i come out she’s still asking questions, and i haven’t predicted and i don’t know very well what her what her issues. Okay, so you’re you’re you’re you’re putting a thought into your that’s, right? You’re whatever weekly meetings are your proposal, executive directors were proposal. Okay? Yeah. Okay. How do we move this persona along? I feel like i feel like we haven’t developed this person yet. Yeah, well, i could get you. More specifics of the persona when you’re breaking it out, your whoever your person is right, you’re kind of saying here’s a little bit about them. So this is the one we have in this in that session is erin the is the first one, right? Just air in the diner, erin e r i n her and and she’s she’s got an avatar of a unicorn, right? Our unicorn executive director and, you know, she’s, super smart, but super busy. She probably has personal demands on her life as well as professional demands. And she really wants her organization to thrive and be successful and her staff to be, you know, well equipped with all the things they need. We should hope so. But she also she also has a lot of pressures around budget around the board asking to do things so so that’s kind of like a snapshot of her right. Then you have in the middle section, like here’s, the things that are most important to her that she’s working on right now, like these air, the air forms are top priority rights fund-raising i’m trying to fundraise for, you know, two thousand nineteen, you know? The next one is i’m dealing with hr issues right in the next one like these air, so from my perspective, like the it guy, like i need to understand that, like, it is not in her top four things, this is just not, you know, so unless i can appeal to these problems and say that the work that robin and i are doing is going to help with these things or help you focus on them even more, i’m fighting a losing battle, right? Okay, yeah, okay. Okay. And then was there another component to the they’re going to the three point is yes, so the third probono hand is then is so if you think of these, like, three columns, right? So we’ve got like, this is about erin. These are the problems and challenges she faces than the last one is here. In order to successfully communicate with aaron, here are the things i’m going to dio, right? I’m going to ask her about the problems that she’s facing in the organization. Okay? And this is what robin, this is what you try to anticipate, and i’m going to communicate the why, what and how if everything were doing very clearly. I’m going to prepare fully from conversations with her, so i don’t not ever waste her time, right? I’m going to anticipate questions she’s goingto ask about things we want to do. This is where robbins. Incredible, right? So, robin, when we had a big meeting with her executive director, she reached out to me and said, we need teo spend probably four hours making a slide deck and here’s all the questions i think she’s gonna have, right? So you you take the time to do that and it’s, in my opinion, it’s stuff we all i think i know, but i think doing it, we’re not regularly. We’re not being fundez being intentional about it. Yeah. Okay, so and so that’s and so it’s. Like a little one sheet thing, you can stick on your office. And and now it’s a reminder to you like, okay, these are all the things i need to do before i go talk to aaron or send her an email or ask her for something, right? I need to understand these is her problems. And these are the things i need to do to communicate successfully, okay? Okay? And is that what about in terms of actual words like, i mean, your your your session to talk about language? Does it get down to that granular level or words? Natural words? How does that how do we find the commonality in the words like avoiding jar? I mean, avoiding technical jargon. All right, you help me? Yeah shouldn’t be trying, you know, i guess if you tell me no, i think you’re you’re right, it’s that sometimes even the number of words someone may not have enough time, do you have to really keep its distinct? In short, i’d say there’s a even bigger gap between fund-raising and where we need to translate it into fund-raising funders will understand too healthy development team to communicate their proposals. So a couple of times we’ve had to go back multiple times to understand how to phrase something, even to the point where we have a specific budget of twenty five thousand that means i may only be ableto order for laptops and not five, because i really am above twenty five thousand with five so it really there are, you know, boundaries that we have to follow on dh. Communicate. Get down, tio. Okay, okay. Joshua language. Anything you want to add about this is a language really specific example that we give in the session. We’ll give it here, too. And hold out on video. Listen, i’m not going. Teo, cut your mike again. We’ll get the penguin’s. I have offstage talent breeding. I would never i would never claim to be more effective than the penguin at a change management executive communication. One of the questions is if you’re, you know, expressing like, hey, i think we should go to sales forthis is another problem that comes up the executive, maybe read something in the times or maybe here’s something from a boardmember and says, you know, we should use slack everybody else using slacks, we should you slack and a lot of people or folks like robin, your operations are kind of like, is that really what we need to be doing right now? And the pushback on that with an executive? Give me challenging. So a question, a specific phrases. What? Help me understand what problems we have at this organization that slack is going to solve for it. Right? And then then follow-up question. Is how does solving that problem help our organization and it’s a softer way of kind of, you know, walking them back from an idea that might be a bit something came from a boardmember has a wild hair, right? Exactly right? And so that that question i always push people to come back to the question of please tell me what problem we’re trying to solve here, that’s what i have to understand and then on lee then cannot communicate. You know, whether slack is the right resource, right tool to do that exact or, you know, maybe there isn’t really a problem or maybe there’s a better way to solve it. Okay, yeah. That’s related. Teo. Something you mentioned in your description, which is, uh, the boardmember child and nephew. Uh, i have a nephew took a coding course. Yep. And, uh, i think he could help the organization with his computer science skill. Right? Rare. You’re found course certificate, right way do with joshua. Well, i mean, i’m not going to sound really redundant, but it’s the same. So help me understand what problem we have in this organization that a recently graduated she’s going programmer could could be effectively applied to solving right if we can identify that, that, in fact, there may be an opportunity for that person to help us, but if we’re hammer looking for a nail and we’re not a nail it’s going to hurt? Yeah, you know? And so okay, andi, rock god, robert doesn’t add to that we actually had an example where we wanted to show a boardmember how much something costs and what we folded into that was the cost of me spending time with that person who was volunteering, so they sold them, they see true cost. So there’s a real life example, this is a real life example, and we show them the true class, and they were shocked, so i would say, don’t be afraid to show them under the hood so they truly understand the impact of what they’re asking for you in your your role as cfo. You get a lot of that, you know, coming down from boardmember zor, maybe your executive director sort of these ad hoc, you know, i read this article type or i heard about slack type, you know, we should be looking at this there’s a lot. Of that that come to you. So i want to get compliments through our board before i sit, go any fire there until they’re an amazing forward. I really mean that, so no, we don’t get too much. But when we do that’s where this example came in, where we really showed the true cost of personnel time training, if this person doesn’t stay, you know, this person doesn’t last long enough to actually get the work done. What does that cost? So so we have a good bounce with our board, but we do want them to understand sometimes what their suggestions metoo institutional costs and including time, right, right, and what that’s resulted? That is, of course, because they fundez us. Then they understand they’re going to raise that much more. But this other person, the way they responded was actually very helpful. They said, look, you know what, let’s, let me join the committee with you so i can dig in and understand how this works. And so now he’s working with us, you threw an opportunity. That’s, right? Yes. Excellent. And pick you up on that? Yes, you may be okay, but i appreciate you asking. For you, teo, turn around to the other side of that close to your mind. Sorry, so i’m picking up on what robin said i’m go and going back to his redundant any of the problems, if if executive director came to me with that and said the boardmember want that if i’m i have a good, strong relationship, i’m okay having candid conversations, we actually have some in our workshop on howto, like develop resilience toe having difficult conversations, i might ask the exact director is the real problem here that we need to find something for this person to do, to engage with the organization to satisfy this boardmember if that’s actually the problem we have to solve, then i will solve it right? But that’s not the problem, then maybe this isn’t the right opportunity, right? But let’s, be honest about what the problem is exactly i can find something if that’s if that’s what you’re asking me to dio, you know, and we’re guard listen, whether benefits organization, because it may be on a macro level benefits because this this boardmember or yours and you will be happy donor, exactly important insider to the organization and and that’s, the perfect example of, like, i may not be able to see that as a mighty person, so i’m not open to seeing it and don’t know how to ask the questions. I’m hopeless. Okay, okay, now you teach something maybe that’s because it was in your other session which i which i forbid you from bringing you said, push back and difficult conversations no that’s in this session that’s it it’s going to be a way we don’t have a hard time keeping my boundary. I’m enforcing that and let’s let’s talk about that, some having having that difficult conversation, who wants to start? So actually, the topic is now pushing back. When when you’re getting resistance, is that it? Yes, doing it appropriately and right. Eso joshua could speak really well to this because we talked about this thing other evening, but in my case, i think i’m very clear on where we need to end up, but open to changes in the path and because i’m very clear on where we need to end up it’s not problematic when people push back. Okay, so you know, if you’re not confident, what? Where you think you need to go, then you question in yourself if people you know push back on you but a cz long as i’m clear on where i think we need to go, then it’s much easier to have those cards. Conversation you’re advocating for something that you really believe in. That’s. Good for the organization. That’s. Right. Ok. All right. So how do we do it? Well, essentially, there’s there’s. I think people think there are other good or not good at having difficult conversations with people and it’s a skill that you can build like any other skill. And were we give a couple examples. This will sound kind of out there, but the example, the first example, we give us something called the ten percent challenge. Where for a week you go. And this was not something i came up with this they got him. Noah kegan who came up with this and you go. Any retail transaction you have? I go to starbucks to buy coffee. I asked for ten percent off. And if the city of a coupon, you have a discount code, i said no, i’ve just i would like you to give me a ten. Percent discount because i just, um, asking and i’m hoping that you’ll give it to me and you’re not pushy about it or anything you just you just and you do that every time you bison, you force yourself to do that every time for a week, and what you’re doing is essentially, like the equivalent of a push up for having difficult conversations. You’re building the muscle? Yeah, you’re building the muscle for, you know, dealing with that discomfort around having may be a difficult conversation, what that there’s other things you can do, and it allows you to maybe talk to your executive about something that you think they’re not going to be very happy about and say, you know what? This thing that we set up isn’t going very well, here’s, why it’s not going well, here’s what i think we need to do to fix it and have that, you know, very candidly because our tendency is due over promise and under deliver constantly because it’s easier on an interpersonal level for me to promise you the world and then once i’m not in the room with you and doing stuff, just get it good enough. And then hope that you don’t notice that. It’s. Not really what i promised. And you want to do exactly the opposite. When i’m with you. I want to really calibrate expectations conservatively, even though you’re you may not like it, right? And if i, if i can get over that difficulty, that discomfort and get really used to it, and i’m going to be much more effective with that, okay? And where do you go? Out? Ten percent. Ten percent challenge? No kegan k a g a n you did it, it’s it’s. Kind of it’ll seem kind of cheesy because it’s kind of been like what i refer to is the opto bro community, you know, like all that, you know, like the, uh, you know, the tim. I mean, with all due respect to this group who i’m a huge fan of. And i suppose i should be dead, but you know what? They’re like the kind of young dot com guys who are, like here’s, how you optimize everything in your life. So it’s, like the young white venture capitalist crowd, got almost exclusively male who were like yours, that you optimize your fitness, your diet, your productivity or everything to be like a super you know, dotcom entrepreneur. So i refer to them. I shorthand them is opto bro’s? Isn’t that what we all aspire? Yes. Okay, let’s. See, we’re going to aa. We’re gonna bring the penguins back. Amy! Hey, could we get the penguins? Oh, and i was so dull. What did i say? Penguin wanted penguin. You know, this is aaron here’s, the arrows! Aaron the yeah, this is air in the air in the back, headset back honor because they’re stretching out, but, well, they’re in the on dh er wait, you need robbins to caress way brought in the frame garrett to bring robin another one. Okay, we need teo or we got everybody now. I guess that’ll do it right. Okay, now that you’re showing that penguin, don’t do that. Okay, there we go again. But it’s, aaron and yu want t this is the other one said, oh, that’s our other next hour, both very dapper in both eyes. All right, all right. This is the panel, aaron and cedric. Oh, and also joshua peskay a vice president, roundtable technology and also robin jenkins, cfo, chief financial on operating officer at the hope of program. Thank you so much. Thank you. Last thiss interview sponsored exclusively by network for good, easy to use donordigital and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc we need to take a break. Wagner, cps. We recently had segments on storytelling, but you don’t want your excellent storytelling to be so excellent, so compelling. That it leads to too many restricted gif ts based on the stories that’s where wagner comes in their block post is avoiding restrictions from donations inspired by storytelling. Regular cps dot com quick resource is then belong in a moment its capacity call out right now. Time for tony’s take two. A big lump of listener. Thank you. No discrimination, no hierarchical. Thank you’s. If you are supporting listening to this show, supporting this show, gaining knowledge and help from this show for your organization, for your work. I’m glad. Thank you. Thank you for being with us. You’re getting something out of it. But we are on this end too. And i certainly am so glad that the show helps you. It helps you do the good work that you need to do. Thank you for being with us, it’s that simple. My video of gratitude if you wanna get a little more complex at tony martignetti dot com now time for steve. Hi and capacity. Call out. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference in new orleans. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising. Self aware for non-profits and my guest is steve. Hi, he’s. Solution consultant at net sweet. Welcome, steve. I thank you. Welcome pleasure. You want to welcome you to my own show? Well, i feel welcome. You are. You are genuinely welcome. Your seminar topic is capacity is more than a buzzword. Yep. Alright, that’s short. But i feel like there’s a lot in there. Iss what are we talking about? When we say capacity? What do you mean? And that was the whole point in the session. The whole point of the session was varies depending on where you’re sitting and yet there’s so many definitions of capacity. Everybody talks about it differently. So the idea of this session was too, really walk through all the different ways that people talk about capacity, how you can measure it, how you act on it when you know what it is. And so one of the key things was providing context to the word capacity. So the only way you can really talk about capacities by putting something in front of it. Like if you think about a car, it has seating capacity. Where if you think about, you know, a truck. It has towing capacity. All right, so that was a lot of our framework. So what are some things that might go? A friend of, uh, acquisition capacity fund-raising capacity. So fund-raising bassett is a good example. Organizational capacity program capacity, you know, financial capacity, technical. So we did it’s been quite a bit of time on technology, cassidy. So we’re around, you know, duvette right systems, right operations, the right technology, the right tech staff skills also. So there’s, you know, layers to how you can talk about capacity within an organization to meet their mission. All right, what with it being the non-profit technology conference? I feel like we should start with technology capacity. Absolute, which is a phrase i’ve never heard. Yes, i’ve heard those two words never put together. Yeah, what now, make sure you know that our listeners are large over twelve thousand there in small and midsize non-profits so they may very well not have any devoted technology staff correct. They probably sure they still have some some technology capacity right on, and we’re gonna help them try to measure it right? And we’ll flush it out more because i can’t even think about other things, too, say about it right now, but i’ll know more in about twenty minutes. Exactly. Um okay, but so, you know, a very good chance they don’t have dedicated technology staff, right? They’re outsourcing everything that they need or they’re piecing it together through. Ah, they’re executive director. And maybe you don’t an office manager or something. Okay? Technology capacity. Okay. What is that? So one thing to think about is the technical capacity. So what do you have enough? Do you have someone on staff that knows enough to able to talk to the vendors you work with and to be able to do the right sort of planning so that you at least understand the systems you have and the need you have so it’s a simple term of technical questioning. Meaning you know the right questions to ask. You know, you have a person driving the strategy. You have somebody making the decisions around your technique technology. And so one of the things that we do at my work is we donate software. Yes. Through social impact. Yes. And so what? My role is before we donate to software what we want to do. Is ask a simple set of questions to see if they have enough technical capacity to be able to implement the software. Oh, i know how you fit into this. Because i had peggy duvette on the show. Yes, just maybe two months ago. Or so you could. You could. If you miss that one, you go to twenty martignetti dot com and you could search her last name. Do you, e t and you can listen to how oracle net sweet social impact has all kinds of free not only product, but also consulting to go along with that to help you build your capacity for use the product that you will get from social impact from from oracle, that sweet social done. You could go back and listen to that. Okay. So now, steve, hi. You fit in determining whether an organisation has the capacity in a technical side. Correct. Tio tio, use what? Your company don’t generously donate. Correct. Okay, so how do you measure it? So we e so one of the challenges we had way had all kinds of grand ideas of how to measure. So he had all these thoughts around, you know, really? Deep interviews and but all of those things take time. So what we ended up doing as we came up with a very simple set of, like, twelve questions, and they’re all kind of very high level questions, but give us a set of information. For example, we asked, do you have a tech plan? These are these questions answered online? Yes. It’s a form that they fill out a hell of a lie you’re building your capacity for for intake to the donation program through social impact. Correct. You are. Congratulations. We had our own constraints and your talk. You’re walking your walk? Yes, it was one questions in your do you have a tech plan? One is. Do you have an i t staff and most people say no, but the second the answer is no, we don’t. But we have a volunteer that has a lot of tech skills that helps all of us allow it a lot. Another question was around. How much time are you willing to commit to a project? How much do you have? A financial understanding accounting in those kind of questions. Right? So the software is khun khun take on financial financial management, right. And i just use this is the one example of measuring technical capacity. And so then the idea is ok. Now we understand our capacity. Where do we where do we have gaps? And then what are some creative ways to fill that so for our non-profit to think about their technique capacity, that’s simple to just sit down and look at it. And then if you decide good. Okay, i got to stop for a minute. Yeah. What if what if an organization is not planning to apply? Tio oracle, that sweet social impact for donation? Can they still use these question? I mean, how would they manage our measure, their technical capacity? So our questions are pretty specific to our program. If they have an organization i think is looking to measure their own, i would look at the end ten and ten just lost the new launched a new technical capacity survey as well. That one is much more broad and open. Okay, so i would look to somebody, something like that for a more generic won. The example i use is just a little straight. Why? You would measure it in what you would do with a one way of measuring the inten a technical capacity survey. You could find it. And ten and tn dot org’s. Yes, kruckel second capacity and that’s a new one that they’ve just launched. And it kind of helps you give, get a clear picture of the technical capacity of your full organization as a whole and then gives you when you take the survey, it will spit out results afterwards of oh, you were a little short here. Go read this book here. Oh, you’re short here. Here’s a website. You should go visit. So it gives us set of recommendations as well. So that once you understand you capacity now you have a set of actions to follow-up right as well. So there is that much more public. Ours is for a very specific purpose. Yeah. So that was a key part of our whole presentation. My presentation of capacity was the there before you even talk about capacity. The key is to understand what? What? What capacity? Trying to understand what gold you have once you understand your capacity. And that would help you determine what type of assessment to do so, for example. Yeah, help. If your goal was to increase your outcomes, your program outcomes so you want to be more effective in the work you do to meet your mission. That would probably mean you would need to do like two different assessments. One is organizational effectiveness. How well do your staff work and how clear our their goals and isn’t tied to the outcomes versus a resource falik assessment to figure out ofyour right funding? Do you have the right revenue streams to support the right staff and then to do a staff have the right skills? So tying those two things together then allows you determine what needs to change in order to have more outcomes from your organization? Ok, boy, that’s a mouthful. It’s a lot. A lot. I’m gonna take a little aggression. So what is your work now, if you’re you strictly devoted to measuring the capacity of potential grantees for the social impact program, so no, i do two things. One is i designed this. The assessments that we use to figure out their capacity design that survey. Okay? And then i designed the interventions that go with it. So once we have their assessment, then we figure out what path they need to go down and what they need to get ready to be able to implement the software. And then once they’re implemented, i figure out, well, there there’s this capacity, we create interventions along the way to help them grow in their capacity so that they’re more successful in what they’re trying to do. Okay, like, but i know a standard part of a program is there’s a monthly monthly webinar for grantees drive that right? So there’s quarterly probono and then there’s regular opportunities to get help and assistance? Yes, we don’t know that there was something webinar maybe i’m wrong, okay? Yeah, i know i’m not sure, but i do a lot of interviews. Yeah, you’re being kind because it doesn’t exist. Not only you’re not sure about it does exist. I just realized you’re you’re good. He has branded oh yeah, you’re branded with nets sweet it’s, the old it’s our old logo on the old alright doesn’t say work along. All right? Yeah. Okay. All right. We got a good amount of time together. Yeah. How do we know what i’d love to talk about it? Unless you were going to take it out. Please go ahead. Thistle. Abstruse for me? Yes, absolutely. Zoho that was the whole purpose of the session was because when people talk about capacity, they it’s such a buzz word that it means nothing like this whole session, if we’re not careful, belongs in george in jail. It’s. And it is the whole thing was jargon joe and that’s. What? Really? So so what? The way i’ve structured the session was i first talked about. There are standard models of doing organizational capacity assessment. Mckinsey has one there’s, an organization called lisk that has one that’s called cap map. And then there’s an organization called the unit. I think it’s a unity foundation. And they have a model so it’s, a very purposeful, driven model. And they measure it in different ways. So you can do a capacity assessment as a self assessment where you just every staff person kind of takes a survey. You look at avery quantitative way to figure out what your what your capacity looks like that way, then you khun benchmark yourself against others that have taken the same survey or what they do is usually give you a report that says here’s your capacity here’s the actions need take here’s your strengths, here’s your weaknesses that’s quite an algorithm. How did they figure all that out? Yeah, and that’s that? Yeah. Then that’s. Why? You should leave something like that to the professionals? Because i don’t know. Okay, you are a professional. You designed a twelve question survey. Yeah, yeah. It’s a week really scaled ours. Now you’re touching at the perimeters of this, but gosh, i mean all right. What? What are the factors that go into it? Depends what kind of capacity you’re measuring me. We gotta break it down so i can break it down. So we had a list of six things. So is it really hold your list? Hold you. Listen, it sounds like something interesting, but is it really worthless to say the phrase organizational capacity? It is useless. It doesn’t mean anything. Yes, it factors in all these different capacities, right? That that is so it’s a broad. It really is unhelpful. Right? And organizational capacity. For what? For what? That’s? My follow up question. Capacity for what? Okay, okay. So that was one of my biggest struggles was as i walk around, you know, the vendor booths, and i will go to sessions and i could hear people and, you know, all of these vendors and several of, like, capacity building initiative. So what? What does that what does that mean? And what does that? How does their non-profit actually act on that? It just becomes, you know, like other words that people throw around there, just buzzwords, and it doesn’t have enough of a meeting. So that was my goal. Was that really actually give it a meaningful contact? Okay, now i see how worthless that is. Georgia. Organizational capacity really is all right. You had your your your clickbait and i’m clicking six list of six. Yeah. So though, so when the when the those three surveys, when they would do their type of assessment, they can’t keyed in a on key areas. One was leadership in governance. So that’s the top level? Do you have the right leadership? You have the right board structure because that really drives a lot of things. The second level then was around do have the right strategy and plan. And then the third was like program delivery. The fourth was around the right staff and structure to do that part. And then the last was resource is in the last was the final, final one with zsystems. Okay, so the penultimate was resource is, yes, the ultimate was back-up saying last night wasn’t the last one that was my sixth and ultimate. Yes, uh, okay, s so all right, so we have these six areas that okay, so these are the two categories that the tools that you mentioned, like the mackenzie said, this is what they’re surveying, yet they’re breaking down into differently. Yeah, okay, different layers of capacity, okay. And then that that broad. All right, go ahead. Yeah. So when you take those six, then it becomes much more meaningful to talk about capacity. Because if you break those down, you take the first two for example, leadership in governance and strategy and planning. If you if you do an assessment on that to see how effective you are, the gore, the and creating a strategy driving towards your mission and then does the board actually have the right governance structure and the leadership have the right tools in place to actually make changes that build your ability to meet those things. So that becomes more meaningful, rather entire organization capacity, which is such a fluffy where that means nothing. When you get into the details of does your leadership do the right things to move you closer to meeting your mission? Okay. So now you’re talking about tying capacity goals yet to the to your plan. Yeah, well, see your organization? Yes, exactly. Organization as it exists. And then you need a plan for filling the gap between what you need and what you have yet to reach the capacity that you’re striving for. Right? Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Those sentences makes sense. What i just said they make sense. Okay, all right. Got to take a break. Tell us this new tellis moughniyah liz from a company tell us, has been has allowed my business to support my favorite charity without even feeling the pinch of writing a check. I am donating money every month that i would have spent on credit card processing anyway. Also, their customer service is far better than we’ve ever had. End quote, one hundred percent business satisfaction with tell us the businesses you refer are going to love it. You will get the money. Watch the video at tony dahna slash tony. Tell us now. Back to capacity. Call out with steve. Hi. All right. So if you don’t have the means, you need one of these tools. You need some kind of professional. You said that earlier? Yeah. That’s. Where? Bringing bringing the professional. You really need some help measuring your capacity in whatever it was through. Whatever chadband whatever channel you want to talk about correct way that you’re concerned about you. And if you’re concerned about your whole organization, then it’s the six sound like the place to start, but you need help, right? And so on, but i think it’s, in a large organization, you really, really help if you’re small and you only have six staff, right? There’s really boils down to is simple questions, because then you don’t need the complex question because you don’t have eight departments to interview, you don’t have one hundred staff, you don’t have this big, unknown kind of presents from my wife’s organization that is no full time staff, you know, they just have a couple, you know, like, eat part time staff, they’re never going to need an organizational capacity assessment. They know they know what they can and can’t do, but so at that level, what they need to acknowledge, though, is do they have a strategic plan? Do they have a mission statement? Do they have a vision statement? Is their board engage, you know, and asking some simple questions like that and then doing it on a quarterly basis and then actually investing in that and finding someone that could maybe come in on a pro bono basis and just provide an outside opinion of whether things were going well or not on that organizational top level leadership? Because i think with small organizations what tends to happen is obviously they don’t need this, you know, one hundred question assessment, but what they do need is to have somebody tell them if they’re spending enough time strategically thinking versus just meeting today’s needs. So that’s, where we really spent the rest, that second half of our session was we were focused in on well, i gave an analogy, so the analogy i used was beer. So my whole session was your themed. My slides had beer on it. I gave away beer during my session was wonderful. It was a nice ice breaker. So the idea was, i gave somebody a beer. I said here, hold this beer. And then i threw a ball to them and told him to catch the ball. They were able to catch the ball, and then i did it again, and then somebody in the audience says, well, why don’t they set down their beer so they can catch the ball use here? And so i was like, oh, that’s, a great question. I was hoping somebody would ask that that was the whole idea for the exercise and i said, the reason you don’t want to sit down your beer is what we want to do is pretend to beers your mission and what often happens at a small non-profit is we put all of our capacity into catching the everyday balls we set down our beer, which is our mission, and nobody ever takes enough time to really think about how do we meet the one year goal, the three year goal in the five year goal? What changes do we need to make today? So for example, was going go back back to my wife’s small non-profit they wanted in five years from now, they wanted to be able to have my wife retire as the founder, but as an unpaid executive director, you can’t hire another executive director and tell him that it’s a freak job. Yeah, so she’s like, well, if i could want to retire, i need to be able to pay an executive tractor, so but in order to do that, i need to have more students in our program and in order to have more students in our program, i need to have a second studio, but in order have a second studio, i need to have a better staff set of of skills so that i can handle capacity, so i don’t have enough people in my organization to handle more students, so she worked backwards from there and figure out which capacity she needed to start with fixing, and what she needed to start with was management. So she took her executive director roll started breaking into an admin role, a program role and an executive director role, which usually doesn’t happen it tiny non-profits usually it has one leader, and they control all the power and it’s that founder syndrome of a lyman charge, and then what happens over time those that when that founder leaves, you have that? Oh, my gosh, is that huge hole? So she saw the capacity need of ok at the leadership level on strategy level can’t be me. We’re going to spread the beer around everybody’s, going to have a cup full of beer, and we’re all going to hold the mission and hold onto it together, and we’re going to share a part of it. So i think that’s the difference between what’s needed at a tiny organization versus a large one if you’re complicated, if you’ve a lot of politics, a lot of messiness, you need someone from the outside to come in with a very rigid tested nice framework. Toby, evaluate your capacity at the leadership level at a small one. It’s usually it’s just having coffee with a friend that understands is coming to a conference like this and having somebody just sit down. You share what you d’oh give you a beer and throw balls at yes, exactly. So what? The way my wife did it was she went to a dance studio owner conference she’s a non-profit dance studio. She had other studio owners tell her and do an evaluation of how she was working. So she benchmarked against them. She told him how she was doing and they’re like all you’re doing this wrong. You’re doing this wrong and the leadership level. So it was a peer evaluation rather than a formal evaluation. All right, first of all, shout out the name of the organization. Oh, my wife’s organisations called leap of faith arts ministries. So it’s a very small non-profit in the chicago land area. Okay, okay. All right, so this is very helpful because we’re breaking it down now for smaller organizations. Yeah, there’s also there’s a good degree of self assessment. I mean, inspection going, yes, there are a lot of founders who would not be willing to divide their job. Yeah, the way your wife did in tow three parts and that’s a that’s, a real struggle because you’re putting all the burden on one person, which is great because that that one person is there for a reason they’re really good at their job and they do it well, so it makes sense tow have them keep all of that stuff. But at the same time, you’re not building a long term capacity for that organization cause when the founder leaves, then the whole order dies. And it’s also not healthy for all these different functions to be in right, ready in one place, because even if the founder doesn’t leave or doesn’t die, eventually they go on vacation. Yeah, they do on dh if if if if getting to the next level which i hear a lot right, you know, how do i do? It is important to you? Yes. Then having a founder. Or maybe two people, maybe not literally just one. But write one or two people holding all the keys and the power that’s all the potential for the organization is is unhealthy. Limited instrument, of course. So yeah. So that was a start assessing start looking in for introspection. Yeah. Figuring out where the you know where the consolidation of power is, so that you can spread it out so that more people are involved. So then we then we continue the conversation to a much more tactical level. So we ended with all right. So if we want to be able to spend more time thinking, capacity, thinking, strategy, thinking, leadership, the on ly way we can do that is to stop doing other things. So you you need to be able to sit down and okay, where am i spending my time? That isn’t helping the mission. What tasks am i doing? What tax my staff doing mohr introspection. Right? So then you look down and you go, okay, well, wow. We’re spending a lot of time on our finances were spending a lot of time tracking our donors that we’re spending a lot of time. Tracking manual pieces of paper for our students doing registration, doing so you talked to start to take those things that there are systems in ways to automate those things. So it’s almost taking a laundry list of, you know, work for three weeks, right down where you spend your hour every hour to write down. Oh, i spent this on adam and i spent this some finance. I spent this and just doing like, a catalogue of your time and then looking back and going so well, i spent a lot of time doing stuff that really doesn’t change our outcomes. It makes us run, and it has to be done. But i could probably give that decided piela won doing it. Yeah. So so then that’s where you start to break down and build capacity because it allows you to focus on the mission in the vision and strategy, and you start to offload those things. And almost everybody went to get a capacity. Says that the first two things they think it’s all i need to raise more money. I need to hire more staff. That’s the only way that we’re going to build capacity and really to me, it’s not that you, khun. If you get your staff trained, they may be able to work better if you get the right systems. It may take away some of the work that you spent all your time doing. If you start to bring in probono staff to do some of this look for a probono accountant look for probono lawyer look for, you know, ways to supplement your staff because of you, in my experience every non-profit that i’ve been at when we ask for more money, or we ask for more staff, the answer is always no. So when i talk about capacity, i say let’s, just stop talking about the illusion that there’s more money and more staff so let’s take and go in two directions. The only way you can do it is supplement your staff, increase the skills of your staff, or look for ways to automate things that your staff shouldn’t be doing that a system can do for you that’s where we ended and that was a really fun cover, that that was the fun part of the conversation to me once we get past the gobbledygook of the word capacity. And the words organizational capacity because really what all what it’s all about is what do you choose to spend your time on? What tasks do you choose as your priorities and what? Where do you invest? The resource is thatyou’re non-profit has been given to meet your mission. What kind of questions did you get? The questions i got from the audience were really about one a lot about the tools. Which tools should i use? Of course, that’s where we started the other one, though, was what do you do? One leadership stands in the way and doesn’t want to change. Or what do you do when thie organization is so small that you know, these tools get away don’t know. Sorry latto clothe first one leadership leadership is resistant. Yeah, so i think when leadership is resistant to this, i think the best way to do it is to celebrate small winds, so arguing with the leadership and trying to prove your point usually doesn’t work. So i think what the way i’ve approached this in the past was do small experiments with just the other staff around you find ways to involve a volunteer or automata. Task and then celebrate it and show hey, you know, we did this little thing over here, and it saved me three hours a week, and now i’m able to do this other work. So i think a way to convince leadership is to prove success when you change capacity on your own, and then eventually you can show them dahna that it is worthwhile for them to spend time, maybe bite it off in small bit and do a test and show show the improvement. Yeah, exactly. Small level. Okay, we got time for one more question that you were asked and but because you can provide the answer. So the last one that since this is a technology conference is doesn’t make sense to do a technology specific assessment and i think that’s another way to answer the first question. So one of the ways that you can get around if somebody doesn’t want to do a full organization assessment, there are some great ways to have somebody just come in. Look at your technology set up, you know, hyre of endor or ask money report members. If they have a solid person, have them come into an inventory of your look at your tax strategy, i think that’s a simple way to start to prove the worth wildness of spending time looking at capacity is just to start with a technology capacity assessment and just have a vendor committed. Do it for you. That it’s. Not all that expensive. If you can find it probono it it’s. Very effective, too. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Yeah, steve. Hi. Thank you very much. Thank you. I hope i didn’t confuse you too much of a good overview. I mean, it’s a it’s, a dense topic. But it is a really done you broke it down. Well, for the small order. Good. Steve. Hi, he’s. The solution consultant at net sweet. Thank you again. Thank you. Appreciate it. My pleasure. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. And you are with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc wrapping up our coverage right now. This interview. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Next week. Attentive and productive with steve rio at bright webb. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing toe online tools for small and midsize non-profit it’s, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps, dot com and by telus, credit card and payment processing. Your passive revenue stream, tony dahna slash tony tell us, are pretty creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez, and our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in sometime, potentially, ater tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential. Live life your way on talk radio dot n y c hey, hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? 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Nonprofit Radio for January 12, 2018: Free Coaching In 2018 & Maria’s 2018 Plan

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Curtis Springstead: Free Coaching In 2018

SCORE coaches small nonprofits nationwide through its network of volunteer specialists in marketing, HR, technology, management, finance and more. Curtis Springstead is from the northeast New Jersey region and he reveals how to get free, ongoing support for your organization.

 

 

Maria Semple: Maria’s 2018 Plan

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Welcome to twenty martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas to be either ninety five percent on your actor named oh, i’m glad you’re with me, i’d suffer the effects of organ neo-sage if you got taste saying you missed today’s show free coaching in twenty eighteen, four coaches small non-profits nationwide through its network of volunteer specialist in marketing, hr technology management finance and mohr kurt kurt springstead is from the northeast region, and he revealed how to get free, ongoing support for your organization and maria’s twenty eighteen plans. Maria semple has strategies for your fund-raising digital marketing and trusted research prospect, research contributor and prospect finder. I thought he’d take you twenty eighteen plans all this month responded by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enables, tony got a last person and by wejust piela guiding you beyond the numbers. Western piela dot com hello durney credit card processing into your press of revenue stream. Tony dahna made black teller i’m pleased to welcome kurt springstead to the show. He is a certified mentor and chairman for the score northeast new jersey chapter his near forty year career was in information technology and ranged from programmer trainer and adjunct professor. Tow it, director, consultant and non-profit boardmember score is at score. Mentors and score dot org’s. Kurt springstead. Welcome to the show. Thank you. It’s. A pleasure to have you, um, score. Now, i i grew up with score being the service corps of retired executives, but that’s ah, that’s. Old news, right? Yes. We’ve dropped that. That acronym? Because it turns out that nearly half of us are working to some degree, many full time in some part time. Okay, so so i was like, like, aarp is no longer the american association of retired persons. It’s just aarp like that, right? Like that. Okay, um, and score is nationwide and supported by the small business administration. Technically, we have our own funding from the directly from the government, and we’re a partner of this administration. They just kind of helped me or the money out. Okay, okay. But of course, score is itself a non-profit so people can give to score and support the work. Well, the way we have our own non profit foundation called the score foundation. Okay, in order to to accept funds donated from the public or from corporations that want to sponsor is because as a government agency, which is what we are, we obviously can’t take donations. Oh, you’re still you like you’re a part of small business administration? Not just i thought, supported by the website says, supported by i thought that meant like you get grant, you get a grant from score. I mean, from s b a. But what exactly happened? Wear actually empowered by an act of congress and they give us a small grant that they they ask our big brother, the spd administer. Okay then, when someone tried to donate a large sum of money a few years ago, we had to figure out how to make advantage take advantage of that. So i created the square foundation, which then sponsors various programs that were involved in whether it be training or outreach. They allow us to be more effective than what we get from the government. Okay, so the yes. So the score mentors are acquainted with non-profits not wanting to turn down gift if they don’t have to. Absolutely. Well, we we end up in our particular chapter having to raise nearly half of the money we need to operate. So we understand all the all the issues that not-for-profits okay, excellent. Eso s o score is i think i feel i feel like my voice just crafting a score score score score is mentoring that is on coaching that is available nationwide, including for non-profits let give us a sense of the breath of this. What? What? What non-profits could learn? Sure. So, yeah, one of the key services we do offer is confidential and free mentoring for as long as you’ll have us. And, you know, there’s about thirteen thousand of my friends in three hundred thirty chapters across the country with people who have done everything you can imagine serial entrepreneurs, uh, people with industry specializations, i spent a lot of time as you mentioned it, but we have people who are retard lawyers piela people have come from not-for-profits organizations and so on, and then what we offer you is whatever services you might need it’s really, in terms of a coaching, a relationship. So if you were people come to us with simply a gleam of an idea, i’d like to create an organization or like to create an entity that does the following and i need to know where the steps are. What are my resource is? How do i make it happen? And since most of us and our careers have been down that road already, either in for-profit or not-for-profits we can i tried to tell you where the where the dangers are and what kind of decisions you might have to make. Okay. And that’s, that’s, that’s pre startup. But our listeners are are already in non-profits, you know, vast majority is already in non-profits so i first of all, i just love the idea that this is available to us as us taxpayers and non-profits ah, you know, in part supported by our small business administration. I love that guy like that, right? So actually, you should be really important. Happy the taxpayer because for every dollar the government gives us, we return fifty dollars. I don’t think there’s any other group in the government that actually gives money back. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. So the yes. I mean, well, you know, we tend to see a lot of people who are looking to start a business, but probably nearly half our business. People who already in business. Ok. For a significant period of time, and so the services are the same. The questions they’re sometimes different not trying to find out necessarily where to go, but we have some trying to grow or i’m thinking of adding a new line of service, or i’m struggling with managing the people that i have a client come to me has been a business for twenty five years, and suddenly the numbers went went rid. She had no idea why that happened or what was going on had, uh, any number of people who come to us with, uh, you know, i just we feel we need to grow. We need to serve more of our clients. We’re not getting out to the the community we were designed to serve. How do we make people aware of us? How do we get volunteers? All those kinds of questions that we run into excellent. Okay, so so even though it’s small business administration, you know that there’s a reason that you’re on non-profit radio i want listens to b b certain that they can avail themselves of this inn non-profit so so whether it’s marketing or law or human resource is a righty or accounting? What? I mean, like any any business functionality is available for the is available as coaching and mentoring that i haven’t run into anything yet that i can’t find, you know, the reality is that for, you know, a cz you’ve mentioned, i’ve been on board and, you know, i’m i’m running a fifty person ah, small non-profit myself locally with the team that i have, so i’m struggling to find more money trying to struggling to find volunteers, i’m tryingto struggle to keep them engaged, too. Figure out how i can reach more clients, which is one of the reasons is wrong with you today. What can i do to make sure that everybody knows our service is out there? So we have the same kinds of problems, the same issues. So, you know, sometimes you need legal advice, and i appreciate the nuance that there are some regulations and some decisions that are different for those of us who are in a not for profit status and the have you got a charitable registration you need to set up? How do you? Some of the legalities of when we hyre people on how we treat them are a bit different howto do with the tax situation. I mean, one of the most interesting questions i get it someone has come to us, has had a for-profit business i have working with a woman who’s been teaching art for a number of years, but now she wants to turn it over and offer some of her courses for free on the internet. And she was going to look for grants. Well, unfortunately, she’s a commercial operation and the number of grants for a commercial operation are quite small. So we started to talk about how she might look at establishing an aw for-profit and attract people to make donations to that business. So i, you know, i’ve only been with score about three years, but i’ve been all over the map. So in terms of those kinds of questions, i can’t help but notice the similarities between my four business work in my not-for-profits although, as every business has its own unique nuance, um where where we do our best to help with that? Yeah, we have to take our first break so you just hang out for a moment and it’s time for a break. Data driven fund-raising field guide that is their newest resource on the listener landing page. There was more data generated in twenty, sixteen and twenty, seventeen, and in all of previous history made that is amazing and it’s too much for you to deal with a field guide to help you translate the data. You have the fever got into actionable inside, drive your fund-raising so you can act on your data, not be stuck in its muddled through it. You know that, ah, fancy report that you get out of your fund-raising starita basis is not worth anything. If you can’t act on it and have it helped you in your fund-raising what is taking what they’ve learned in working raise large organisation, and they have boiled down to basic principles for you in data analysis. The data driven fund-raising field guys it’s at tony got a flash for students capital p now, back to springstead and free coaching in twenty eight i’m with kurt springstead on, we’re talking about score, which is consulting, coaching, mentoring, that’s available to you in all these different areas that that kurt has been touching on anywhere in the country. Him he happens to be in the northeast new jersey chapter, but how many three hundred chapters you said throughout the country, country hundred thirty welcomed the beauty of it is we have a significant number of clients that we service, uh, who who are comfortable with an exchange of e mails, and we’ve also started in the last year or two significant amount of mentoring the video conference, so if the particular expertise you need isn’t in the small team, in your neighborhood or in your your area, then with some help your you, khun, search and find a person anywhere in the united states, and you can make the arrangements to work with it. I was working with the young man who originally met with him in kentucky or talk with him while he was in kentucky and one day we were chatting while he happened to be in china working on this project, so we’re no longer bound by the code we working. Okay, excellent. All right. Very good to know. All right, so if someone wants to work with score, we want to take advantage of this vast consultancy basically that that’s free to us way get started with the the website it scored out. Or gore or how oh, that is the most efficient way to do it. Okay, you go to score dot organ, you’re going to find one of several buttons that it’s going to or hidden around the screen or on the screen that will tell you, you know, meet with a mentor. And at that point, you’ll be asked to you know what? How do you want to do that? Face-to-face email whatever you type in very minimal information that your name and address phone number email a little bit about what you want to talk about and hit entering within two business days. Somebody is probably going to be back in touch with you trying to establish the appointment to move ahead and you make a distinction between mentoring and consulting? How do i know which of those is better for me? Okay, well, actually, there you’re going to be with one person. We find that we have to wear a couple of hats were primarily mentors and had been a consultant most my life. I could make a hope, a simple distinction. A mentor, a guide you through the process asks you questions, ask you to probe things, operas you advice and counsel and points it out, but allows you to come to your own conclusions. We make no judgments about what it is you’re proposing to do or how you propose to do it, because ultimately it is your business. But there are times when what you need is information and instructions specifically how to do something and when we can do that, you know, we can’t practice law, and we can’t do the work of people do, but we can we can help you review a business plan, our build, you know, proposal to a bank. We’re going to coach you on that when i was a consultant, i i also would charge you to do that work or i do it for you. We are not. Equipped to fill out your business plan, but to help you go through that. So most of the time were mentors were were advising coaching, encouraging, sometimes supporting when times get tough. But every once in a while you need someone with the main expertise. Oh, and that’s, when we put on our consulting hat for a bit of time. Now, how do you get familiar with the work of the non-profit before this before this initial meeting? So so the initial meeting is for the purpose of, of understanding. What is it you want to accomplish? Where are you? What have you done so far? And then establishing a game plan? And one of the key things is do we need other players in the meat in the mix? That’s the advantage i have i i i’m probably meet with you with someone else anyway, just because more people that are listening, the better hyre information will gather anyway. But then if i know that there’s a particular expertise or challenge at the moment, then i can go out and make sure that i have the right person with me at that time, or i might need to do. Some more research to find out through my other channels, other partners that we work with to make sure that we have the information that you’re going to need or the access so the resources that you want. So that first hour, so it is really sort of like the doctor taking your vital signs, we need to kind of know what we’re dealing with first, before we start begin to do any kind of diagnosis. I mean, many people come to us, i think they have just a quick question. They want to get answered, and and that may be true, but oftentimes during the dialogue, they come to the conclusion that they there’s more than they had asked for the problem’s bigger or the questions are broader than they had thought and that’s that’s why we look at that first meeting is simply this sort of the diagnosis, okay? And you’ll stay with them. You said it’s a cz long as they’ll have you. Right, so the ad varies a bit by by chapter, but in our our chapter, the basic model is if i were to work with you, for example, i would intend to work with you for as long as you have me and as time would go on, i would expect you would need to have many different resource is, and you’d need things well beyond whatever my expertise might be. So i’m going to just make sure that i’m going to be your single point of contact with score throughout that entire relationship and get you the resource is that you need within score and without way our research, your partner, the fda, there might be a time when we need to reach out to there were two other governmental agencies, for example, to help you with something you’re trying to do and that’s the ideas we have that you can you can build that relationship with deaf. You not constantly telling your story to new people who might show up the answer a question, i suppose it’s something general, i’ve had guests on talking about, you know, planning on dh here we are in january talking about planning for the new year, i suppose it’s like, you know, i don’t feel like my will keep it in your in your ballpark, you know, i don’t feel like my eye is is adequate. You know, but i’m not really i mean, i don’t feel like the programs we have or the methods we have, like we’re two spreadsheet dependent, but, you know, i’m not really sure what direction to go or what, and i don’t know how much you know, money i need to spend, i suppose it’s something you know as general is that, uh, you know, sort of nebula nevertheless, is that well, that’s actualy pretty specific. Thank you, really? For that i was trying to give you a hard i was trying to give you a hard hypothetical. Yeah, so the whole idea’s, because i happen to have that the main expense, i’d start asking in little more in depth questions and understand and why you have these feelings with the challenges are what, what your current situation is preventing you from doing what things you think you’d like to be able to do, and we could talk about whether or not your system would do that. And then because i’ve had thirty or forty years, i can start to help you figure out how to shop for a new solution. If that’s the right case i could give you. Some ideas of what the orders of magnitude of expense might be the time to get these accomplished some thoughts about the steps of going forward, you know, recently have been advising a couple of people who are creating app in their particular space, and it’s it’s been a lot about strategy? You know what kind of a platform that we put it on when i have no money to start with? And then what do i do if i open up my app and i suddenly become, you know, huge, i’ve got, you know, one hundred thousand users where am i thought i might have a thousand on the first day, so all those kinds of things, you know, we’re equipped to do it, and, you know, it doesn’t it’s not always going to happen in a one hour session, and we understand that, yeah, of course, yeah, now i assume this is all confidential, absolutely pr every year we’re we’re required to re certify on our code of ethics and the number one tenant is confidentiality we that’s built into the when you actually agreed to be a client, you’re you’re covered by that, and i could just tell you from my own experience, unless we engage of one of my colleagues into a into a particular client, i’m not likely to be speaking about your personal situation with other members of the team. Frankly, just no, no need to do that. So you could be you can be absolutely certain that whatever we talk about it it’s just between us. Can we bring in other people from the organization? If i want, maybe it’d be helpful for you to talk. Tio my c f o r a boardmember can we can we engage multiple people on our on our side? Absolutely. We recently had a team of from my office to meet with the entire board, a new organization to provide some residents living facilities for people with special needs. And they were struggling with there being pressured but costs. And so it was important to get the full perspective from from their, uh, their leadership to what they thought their challenges and issues were. And that was so we had a nice big meeting, so we’re oftentimes it’s scaled up. And that sounds like a good story. Good non-profit story. How were you able to help? Those folks they st louis where they, you know, they gave us a rundown on what they saw, their challenges and what the in terms of the quality of people they needed toe hyre because of the concern for the people that the population they were serving, the challenge is about how they were funding the business. There were some options available to them, given the structure of some of the reimbursement that’s available through healthcare plans and such on dh ahs well as the diversity of their program, and we were able to share with them from our differing expertise. I had someone who had financial background, and there was another one with people back, personnel background, and i looked at some of the systems approaches, we were able to provide them with some frankly, in their case, so a way of sort of prioritizing the many challenges that that they had, and that seemed to be a recurring theme by the way that we run into many of the existing businesses there are there are so many things we could work on that sometimes we can’t make up her mind, which is the one that, uh, it’s going to be the most productive well and that’s, that and that’s a big challenge, of course, in the non-profit community, especially now, as you know, if if if we see government funding reduced to the point, where are our state can no longer offer services, you know, i think a lot is going to fall to non-profits and prioritization is going to be the challenge. I mean, this is gonna be so much more that needs to be done. Can we do it? Should should we be doing it on def? So you know how right? And, you know, i think the other thing is that for many clients of in both the non-profit world as well, the for-profit world, sometimes the best be that outside force or that outside opinion, um, your board is a good team, your volunteers were good team, but you you are not already looking through a filter based on your day to day knowledge of what, what you do and how you’ve done it. We come in with with none of those constraints, we don’t we don’t know everything about the business, so we’re not afraid to ask stupid questions or two proposed the idea from another industry or another space that perhaps could be adapted to your space. One of the interesting things we teach some business start up ideas, and one of the concepts in there for one of the leading thinkers is that there are no new business models. There are simply people who were innovatively applying business models into a world where they have not traditionally been used thinking of things like amazon into the book market, for example. So sometimes it just creates it’s just good to hear somebody who doesn’t already have the corporate think, if you will say, agree with your idea or think that your priorities are correct. What about around social media? If i if i feel i’m struggling, i’m not sure which which channels to be in? Um, i’m not you know, i don’t feel like i’m thoroughly engaged with people you know is help with social media within within the score of expertise to a degree, yes, i would be we find that more often than not just because of this, the fact that it moved so quickly, even with some of the the younger subject matter experts that we have on our team it’s just hard to keep up, so we understand i mean, frankly, is an organization we were struggling every day and constantly checking to make sure that what we’re investing in, what we’re doing is social meat is working, but so we can give that some overviewing could put that in the context of other efforts that you might be doing to get your workout, but we also can help you identify a partner if that turns out to be the right thing, because there are two aspects to it through the strategic aspect, which we can offer probably more help with, and we have we have, you know, hundreds and thousands of resource is on our national website on a variety of topics, several of which are around that we also produce a webinar every week on a different topic and oftentimes social media’s his way one part of that so we can provide that overall information, but sometimes it’s uh, i will just tell you that score we’ve hired a contractor who actually implements a lot of our strategy and making sure that we’re getting post out, helping us figure out howto measure and find out if it’s actually working if we’re if we should be boosting post if we should be buying at how are we using our google place that nature so we can get you two started in that the right direction? Sometimes all we can do is help you be a good customer when you have to go out and buy a resource. Because you what? You really someone who could come and spend time, day after day doing the work for you, which were just not structured, right? Right. That’s, not yours. Ok, but but you can’t help identify the questions we should be talking. We should be asking potential vendors and identify the for us, you know, a process for for hiring, whether it’s frankly, whether it’s, a social media manager or ah or an outsource cfo or right. I mean, you can help with that, you know, acquiring the expertise? Absolutely. And so it will be better than just sort of, you know, hitting up google and looking for the one in neighborhood. Yeah, we’ll give you some some measurements of some things you can ask during the interview. What should you look for in their in their background or in their proposal, if that’s the right thing and some sort of sense of perhaps with the fees and costs on toby, i’m thinking about this, too. In terms of finances, you know, a lot of people, lots of people get into non-profits started non-profit because they have enormous passion for some cause and let’s put aside the question whether forming a non-profit was the right business decision to make or not because they already passed, that they’re already incorporated, but they often are lacking the business savvy that it takes two to scale and sustain. And i think i think financial issues particularly stand out what you know suppose suppose that’s me, i mean, i got a lot of passion and i’ve already incorporated is a non-profit but i’m not sure i’m accounting correctly, you know, people talk to me about ah, accounting software, you know, how do i start? Right? And you have the reality also is this significant potential legal and issues if you don’t do that sort of thing, right? So yeah, that is that’s a very common peace. I would just tell you that very few people who go into business a cz well, who might have a passion for a not for profit uh, area really ever intend to be the business person they wanted. They want to serve the population, they wantto feed the cause they want to, you know, sell the best pizza, whatever it might be. So and then they say, oh, not so now. I’ve got to run this business thing and double these forms, and the government wants something, and i got to write a check to this guy and i just, you know, what’s all this about and that’s where we can provide a couple of layers of support sometimes it’s simply where those of us who are from score who have the financial chops of the management chop could just be that that mentor we meet with you on a fairly regular basis, help you realize, you know, figure out howto watch the pulse in your company and make some of the long term, bigger decisions if you’re comfortable doing the day to day checkbook and that sort of thing, okay, for other people, it’s it and, you know, maybe you’re lucky and you you’ve blossomed you in your really big skill, you know, i was on the board of a couple of not-for-profits that are, you know, had million, multi million dollar budget. So we we had professional accounting firms to do it eso again helping to find the right people. But also, you know, people will tell you, make sure you do the right accounting and so on. But you need to go with them and help them explain to them well, what your strategy, which your long term plan for the organ ization? Where am i going to go next? Because that might affect what they do today. So we can help you crystallize and formulate those plans on growth situations. And then you have someone who could do the day to day blocking and tackling. If you do need sources of funds, where do i find that? You know, if i’m not for-profit i have some opportunities. Perhaps go for grants. How do i write a grant? Where would i find a grant writer? Do i need a grant writer? That kind of thing all come up as we go forward. And then also how do our their limitations on the money that i have? I can tell you that in my organization. There are certain things that i can’t pay for with the money the government gives me to operate, but i can pay for with the money i get through donations off. All right, so these are all factors that we many of us have expertise we have their knowledge of and worst cases again, we will help you become the better informed consumer of services for by a professor. All right, we have to leave it there. I just wantto make sure that people understand, too, that there are a lot of do-it-yourself resource is at score dot org’s articles outlines templates. Kurt mentioned one hour webinar every week, so i’m encouraging you for twenty eighteen to check out, score, score, dot or ge and at score mentors. Kurt springstead thank you so much, my pleasure. We need to take a break. Redner’s here’s a testimonial, i was on my new position when i began working with regular piela my confidence, i can have grown knowing that i can rely on the professionals to answer any questions and make recommendations that will ensure the success of our non-profit you were given sound advice enabling us to increase investment income while at the same time, protecting you. Ask that. I trust and respect our audit team on the forward to their annual visit and vote. That is, from a midsize religious organization in the big graft. Dahna look at this. I mean the people of more than piela e-giving investment income on that’s. Good advice. And the person looked forward to their orders. I don’t think you have no properties are looking forward to order. I think they’re more feared, maybe dreaded, but it’s not a fortune from the midtown religious organization in the mid west and diversity of expertise reminds me of all the guys that they have all the guys, guys, guys, all these forms in ten places and white papers on diver subject oppcoll way beyond accounting. No, lecter goes way beyond the numbers for their clients. You know that you’re supposed to change audit firms every three years to get a fresh perspective on your practices on the first set of eyes looking over your books and your management management processes. You want the advice of a firm that goes broads help you? I think you know beyond the balance. So that is what i’m always saying. They go beyond the numbers talking on one of the people you could talk to. Is you too, who’s? Been a guest on the show martignetti piela dot com that’s not tony. Take two. Well, it’s almost for your twenty eighteen planning there’s. More coming after this one next week. Takagi what is the new tax law metoo for your twenty eighteen? Hundred. And on january twenty sixth, it’s gonna be me and amy, i’m gonna be talking about starting your plan e-giving programs in twenty eighteen, and then amy sample ward is gonna have her twenty, eighteen plants, just like maria has plans coming up very shortly. We’re supposed to have joe garrett. Unfortunately, he had a family emergency, couldn’t make the day that we were gonna be recording, so we’ll get joe garrett back fund-raising plan. But instead of joe playbook, that i get that, but i’m always got, so we have got you covered for the whole year, all month of january, that is all you got to do. My pleasure. Welcome. Maria semple, prospect finder, trainer and speaker on prospect research. Latest book is magnifying your business. Six tools and strategies that growing your business or your non-profits our joy and if they’re free, get the prospects finding dot com and at maria semple welcome back, maria semple. Happy new year. Happy new year county. How are you today? Thank you. Doing great. Thank you very much. It’s. Good to talk to you. And and you’ve been thinking through what i’m calling maria’s twenty eighteen plans. What are you going to start with? So, you know, i thought i would give a little bit of a mixed some tips that i might be, you know, might have offered through my focus. Well, it’s, um, it’s really focused in on prospect research in particular. And just, you know, trying to make sure that non-profits are a cz short up, as they possibly can be for the upcoming year. Okay, so that book might like that magnifies your business school gravity’s growing your business or your non-profit looking talking about? Yep. That’s the one that’s, the books magnifying. Okay, i wanna make sure that was it. All right. So what? Do you want something? Well, you know, i was thinking about thie importance of really solidifying your relationship with individuals. Andi, this is where i think non-profits really have the greatest strengths on dh, their greatest opportunities as well, for growing. So, you know, when you think about, you know, launching a major gift effort or maybe upgrading your major gift effort, this is really the year to do what if you haven’t done so already? So, you know, sort of a first step that you might consider doing is to do a database screening. There are a number of companies out there that will screen your entire donordigital base, um, so that you’re really able to kind of elevate those those prospects that might be hidden in your database and give you an opportunity that you know where to focus your efforts. All right? So you’re encouraging diversifying into an individual e-giving program if you don’t already have one that’s, right? That’s, right? But you need to know where we’re to focus so very often if you’ve got a board that’s been changing out a lot or you’ve got, you know, a lot of staff changes and so forth. And you really don’t have that longevity and people really standing who’s in that donor database, so you’re able to sort of look at it on your own, obviously that’s seen cheapest way to do it right? Because now you’re not, you know, outsourcing anything, they’re not paying anybody to screen the database, but i really find that when when organizations take an opportunity to do that, it gives them the chance elevator to the top, the names of the people they should really be focusing in on. So, you know, you might even do it. Has a lot of the companies will allow you to send in a batch and test your database to see, you know, if it’s going to be worthwhile. Thio do the whole thing. Okay, um, something else you want to have in place before you do a major gift on individual individual giving program, major gifts or welchlin yeah, you’re gonna end up with maybe get program if you take this important step starting individual e-giving program’s going to end up with major donors, some are goingto give more brothers, but either way, you want to have ah, constituent relationship matters in a database. You crn database in place on dh. There are very affordable ways of doing that there’s so many different cloud services and there’s some that you just played by the records. So when you’re starting small, you know, you don’t have to have the major’s your commitment, maybe database, that, uh, that is only going to have a couple dozen names in the beginning, but you want to have a way of capturing all those relationships all those different data points with people because of something that you just mentioned area staff turnover, when when one person leaves, they’ve had all the conversations with, you know, half your donors, uh, you don’t want to lose weight, and i talked about that. You don’t want to lose all that precious information, right is right, and, you know, it’s a problem as as i’m sure you’ve seen in your own consulting that happens time and time again, where you get in there and you talk to an organization and they say, you know, well, you know, i’m new here, i’m only on the job three months i’m really not sure what those relationships were like on dh then you find out that you know, a lot of conversations and so forth, which simply not recorded anywhere. Elearning yeah, i mean, the last thing that you want to do is call the donor and say, hi, you know, my name’s, maria semple, on our new year of the organization, and i’d like to get to know, you know, for your interest, why do you give to us, you know, i mean, you should know that you should know all of that information. Yeah, i just had that conversation with your your predecessor two months ago, so so database screening find find people on, of course don’t only pay attention to the wealthiest in your in your in your database on that also have your e r n, right? Okay, you’re you’re also encouraging, looking into recurring yeah, you know, this is a place that you have an opportunity to garner, and i’m going to say those smaller gifts, those people that will commit ten dollars in most twenty dollars a month, whatever it is that’s hating their credit card, everybody so, you know, many of us are already used to paying whatever netflix, whatever this monthly charges that’s hitting our credit card accounts. On dh so it’s already sort of been absorbed into our monthly budgeting and so forth. And so if you can convince people to start setting up a recurring, uh, payments to your organization that’s going to go a long way to helping booth and of course, you’re not talking to the major gets here. You are talking about getting people in, perhaps at a much lower entry point and keeping them engage. I think it’s pretty standard practice, but i was going to make this explicit no on that donation page that you’ve got. You want to have a button for making monthly or something like that so that the person who is giving at a level that could conceivably be the monthly recurring donation could easily do it, you know, you know, ryan and i have to go in someplace special to make a set of recurring giving, i think that’s pretty standard, but i want to make it quick, make sure hyre no, that could be it could be very valuable. And you know what we get on saying that people just forget about it and fills, usually until their credit card expires, and then they’re reminded oh, yeah, no, i got this thing, and then and then sometimes that’s an opportunity for you asking for upgrades when a person is reevaluating. I mean, yeah, there’s always a chance that they’re goingto stop those donations at a point like that. But there’s also a chance that they’ll they’ll increase it. So you use a of failed transaction as an opportunity to essentially increase. Yeah, yeah, and, you know, it’s an opportunity for you to really start using the language that you would use, maybe with a major gift donor-centric tuo invest on a monthly basis in our organization, you know, you might have a monthly investments that you have set up for, you know, for yourself, for your for one kings or, you know, whatever we’d like you to take just ten dollars and twenty dollars a month and invest with our organization in the future viability of the organization. So, you know, give that compelling story, give that compelling reason why they should be engaging and investing with you on one thing faces, okay? And that’s, uh, you wanted to be telling them stories about about your outcomes, basically, what a big part of the story. Selling that’s, right? That’s right night. I saw that you actually had done them a video recently, you know, kind of on this topic as well. You know, you’ve got to be able to thankfully tell your story and, you know, there’s a lot of information out there on the web, all you need to do is really do a google search for non-profits storytelling, um, there are a lot of experts in that arena i’ve seen some of them speak even at the american marketing association conference on dh you know, the thing that you have to get across to people is, yeah, you’ve got your stats on, you know, those important metrics that you’ve got to be able to communicate, but that’s usually not what’s going to sell somebody right on on wanting to invest with your organization. So you’ve got to be able to humanize it and tell stories about the impact that your organization has on the community and, you know, making sure that you’re kind of a hearing too, really good storytelling, a beginning, a middle and an end and really understand all the different types of stories that there are out there. There’s a reason why we can’t remember, you know stories about whatever little red riding hood and the three little pigs, right? There’s a certain set up to those stories, you can learn tons of information about that on the web, and i really encourage you, teo teo, focus focus in on getting the story straight not only for your major gift donors, but also across the board at all we know right now definitely cross for this matter from e-giving five dollars a month with five dollars, more than they need to know what you’re infected and we’ve had listen, we have a guest here too. You go, teo durney martignetti dot com and search storytelling, the the guests we’ve had on that subject will obviously come up. Yeah, you got to share your impact? Um, you’ve also been thinking about trying to capitalize on sigil ambassadors? Yeah, yeah. So talented people. Yeah. So, you know, i’m sure that this is something that amy sample ward talks a lot about when when she’s on your show, tony as well. But, you know, you want to think about engaging people to be able to help amplify your message. Right? So, you know i think we’re all asses point sort of accustomed to seeing campaigns were online where your friends or maybe joni there their birthday, you know, raising money for an organization on behalf of their birthday, that type of thing. So those types of sort of crowd funding these people are digital ambassadors for an organisation when they do that, all the people that were involved in that bucket challenge, they were digital ambassadors, right? And there were some that were really, really strong, obviously that the first family, the first guy that kicked it off, they must have had a pretty good following to get to get kissed off as well as he did, but you wanted to try and figure out who those digital ambassadors are if you don’t have any really it’s time to start recruiting some on broadening your outreach, even if you have to think about some paid opportunities, you know, on facebook such as, you know, i don’t know ads are boosted post, yeah, big book and also twitter yeah, yeah, you know, as you find the people who are most network most deeply connected and you start a campaign you wantto be working with them. And this is something that any and i have talked about to work them back channels. You get them enthusiastic and you get them talking before you start your public campaign, right? Get there. And you get that they’re connected to help you in the public. And so that i know that people who follow you, uh, people who were with you and you have the most followers fanned. Whatever. You know, those were the most connected are going. Teo, be active participants in your campaign. Maria, we gotta take a break. We’re going toe. We’re gonna come back and talk more about yeah, ambassadors. And i know you have some resources share finding them right now. I gotta take a break. Elearning credit card payment processing brovey check out the video at tony dot m a flash tony, tell us explained the process of businesses joining tell us on having their credit cards, other payments process by tello’s and reminds you that you are going to get fifty percent of the revenue that hello elearning that’s a long revenue stream because they have one hundred percent satisfaction rate. So you can be assured that the business is going to be pleased, and you’re going to be earning revenue from this four, a good long time every single month. Also, the video for their, uh, one hundred percent satisfaction and the price match guarantee. You go beyond that. Tell us, can’t save the money that you started to tell us, and you’re getting two hundred fifty dollars. So it’s worth starting. Think about businesses. That next-gen tio, you know, as the rest of you watch the video. Think about like, a local body shop where, by the way, out there, all wearing masks and your protection jewelry store the area where they make a pie with the crust recognize from a bakery where hope that we don’t have very good. Um, think about that think about the businesses that you’re you’re boardmember zoho family members only any of these potential referrals to tell us for credit card processing, you just have to generate some interest to check out the video. That’s brightstep teo, your long tail of revenue. Tony got a last tony tellers. Now, look, rebecca miree simple and her twenty eighteen plan. You have some resources for finding who the deepest, most networked ambassadors are among your constituents. Yeah. Yeah. I have some resources that you might want to consider looking into. First of all, i came across a great white paper download that blackbaud put together. They put together a nice free guide. And it’s actually called super has the kids program how to create a super advocate program. So there i read through it, and it looked like there were a lot of really good chips in there. So that might kind of give you the first time ideas about how the framework and what it is that you might want to do and, you know, it really is going to be able to create opportunities foreign organizations most committed supporters really did take more action hyre value actions than than a typical supporter. This’s why you’re our joy and of your cubine free, right? So that the guide is free, but the guide three guys? Yeah, another one, right, yet so a couple of other things actually one that you brought to my attention called attentively, which is one of the blackbaud solutions actually wait give you the opportunity to identify whose influential so they say that a mass email files with social data and so that you can better understand the social side of yours supporters. So if you do have an email list, it is an opportunity to see who amongst that list might be really great social ambassadors reorganization, that’s attentive dot leaves they’ve got a y yeah, they they also make the point that home email i just better don’t. Usually the one people used to sign up with social network, so if you have a file of of home addresses, home email addresses attentively that’s not that’s not well, my treat so that’s not a free one, but no that’s correct zsystems blackbaud but value there and finding the most connected people and you got zaptitude what is zaptitude about? Yes. Zaptitude right. Kind of an interesting name. They have one of their service offerings is called good influence. And i learned about this company a few years ago. And i actually met some of the folks behind the company at one point and met people at the american marketing association conference who use this tool. Two years ago, you been holding out on us. You got a couple of years. You’re feeling it now in january twenty eighteen, you know, i’ve got i’ve got to keep some gems for you. I don’t think w hole not on non-profit idealware way. Never talked about you and waited. All right, maybe you alright? I get it out? Yes. So anyway, they have they have a tool called good influence and basically it it’s an opportunity to is your existing customers because this is used side both, you know, businesses and non-profit so in this case, your existing donors to dr support through new donors. So it’s a platform that really again helps to amplify not so much doing the search like thehe tentative job l y product would do, but really, this could be a platform for you. Teo, try and scale off your digital ambassador efforts. And when i was going back and reviewing some information about the current leadership team i’m looking at the bio of the founder and ceo is kind of interesting in marinette, we talk about the good influence product with the bat phone for the social activation engine for the famous i spoke a challenge current, so i’d be interested in having another conversation with him, actually myself. Teo, figure out more about how exactly the good influence taught. It played into that. I stuck a challenge. Okay, cool. And that’s that information about that is that zaptitude yeah. Dot com. Right. Okay. That’s that that to write? Well, you would be our most likely contributors. So let’s, get some prospect. Researcher idea. That is okay. So i was also thinking about a new arena we haven’t talked about before, which is maybe trying to research some of the companies in your community that are set up as the corporations and so i know, you know, you know why i don’t want to get thrown in the jargon jail so let’s, talk a little bit of what? You know well, listeners know that’s okay, well, that’s all right, gene cog and i’ve talked about the corpse on there now, and they’re they’re social, social good missions, not sickly, profit driven, but they certainly can be profit making, so you’re okay. You’re okay, cool. Cool. Ok, good. So there’s, actually a website called b corporation dot net. Uh, where you can go and search by state and see, you know what? All the big corporations are right in your state on dh. Then, you know, you’re kind of using, you know, good old fashioned prospect research looking at that company, trying to figure out who’s behind the company and so on and so forth and trying to learn a little bit more about him. You know, these people already have a social mission built into their companies. Perhaps the work that you’re doing can align some way with a particular social mission. So, you know, i think it’s an opportunity for you two. Maybe developed, um, uh, some relationship with him. Yeah, most of the time. It’s, private companies, so relationship supply. The companies that are set on our course. I love it. It’s, like it’s, like doing the same kind of research assay. Would foundation wear where they would be court they’re aligned with, and whether you might fit in. Yes, in-kind. What do you got for us? You mentioned a family you mentioned foundation so it’s touch upon that for a moment. If you have not made your annual trust to your local cooperating collections of the foundation center in your in your next the woods it’s time that you do that no, we’re going ahead and get a subscriptions directly to the foundation directory online. So if you have the funds to do it and you do a lot of foundation’s research definitely worth while having that tool in house, but it is available fourth grade if you go to the foundation center or one of their cooperating collections in your community. So what i recommend is to try and focus in instead of the really big foundations in your state, which everybody seems to kind of know today everybody goes, everybody goes, yeah, focus more in on the foundations that are the family foundation’s, even if they do not seem to have a lot of assets and some you will even notice some will come up xero and assets and don’t let that turn you off because if they had gone through the effort of setting up the framework for a sound of private foundation, but there may be, you know, a plan in the future that that family is may be planning to sell business and funding the foundation, and you don’t know what the thinking is behind it and it’s going to get to know them a little bit. So don’t discount the ones that you even see with xero asset, okay? And you trying to find connections between your non-profit and foundations not only terms of mission, but you know, if you’re looking in your state, you’re looking for a board connections two are some kind of some kind of relationship, right board connections, mission over laugh, it could be that they are literally in your county or in your town. So these air opportunity three to try and develop relationships with some of these people don’t forget, i mean, if it’s a family foundation, people behind the whole thing on dh there’s, you know, it’s just happens to be the vehicle by which they are, um, you know, putting all of their philantech through so it’s worthwhile, taking an opportunity to research it there if you don’t have any access, any way of accessing the foundation centers products you could do a similar type search on guide star okay, another case, and as you do your research, don’t be afraid to bring lips of foundation board members and foundation names to your board meeting try to have a board members or, if not at your meeting, circulated some other way, but have your boardmember scrutinizing the foundations that you’ve found that align with your work and start getting people you’re boardmember you know where the where the connections might be, but we gotta leave maria, thank you very much. Happy new year, thank you are joining of thirties and free, you’ll find her at the prospects finding dot com and at maria sinful next-gen takagi what’s the new tax balm for your twenty eighteen fund-raising plan if you missed any part of today’s show, i didn’t think you’d find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools to small and mid sized non-profits data driven and technology enables twenty dollars, by pursuing your guiding you beyond the numbers regular piela dot com and tell us credit card payment processing your passive revenue streams. Tony got a last tony killers our creative producers try my family, which is the line producer shoretz social media site. Shadow and its wonderful music. In-kind you give me that? We’re not from the radio. Big non-profit ideas for the odd third, ninety five percent go out and records. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah, insights or no presentation or anything, people don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane. Toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for September 15, 2017: Run Like A Biz & Program Your Board

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Hillary Schafer: Run Like A Biz

Hillary Schafer brought her 12 years on Wall Street to the Jefferson Awards Foundation, where she’s executive director. She shares her ideas from building core infrastructure to employee policies. (Originally aired September 18, 2015.)

 

 

 

Gene Takagi: Program Your Board

Gene TakagiYour board probably recognizes its fiduciary responsibilities, but does it know its role in overseeing programs? Gene Takagi is our legal contributor and principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO). (Also aired September 18, 2015.)

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I need a pancreas. Ole affected me for last week’s pancreas volodya, sis, if you hard into me with the idea that you missed today’s show, run like a biz hillary shaefer brought her twelve years on wall street to the jefferson awards foundation, where she is executive director. She shares her ideas from building core infrastructure to employee policies that originally aired september eighteenth, twenty fifteen and programmed your board. Your board probably recognizes its fiduciary responsibilities, but does it know it’s rolling overseeing programs? Jean takagi is our legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo that also aired september eighteenth twenty fifteen tony’s take two five minute planned e-giving marketing responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by wagner cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apple of accounting software designed for non-profits they’re at non-profit wizard dot com and we’d be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com here’s hillary schaefer run like a biz. I’m glad to welcome to the studio hillary schaefer. Prior to joining the jefferson awards foundation as executive director, she worked as the head of us institutional equity sales in new york. For citigroup, she was one of the highest ranking women in the equity business in the late nineties, she was the executive director of economic security two thousand fighting to save and remodel social security. The foundation is at jefferson awards dot org’s and she’s at beard hillary on twitter welcome hillary schaeffer. Thank you very much. Glad you’re in the studio. Thanks to be here. Eight and a half months pregnant. Eight and a half months pregnant. We got you at the right time. What what’s behind this twitter id beard? Hillary it’s. My maiden name is beard. Okay, until re beard was taken, i presume and hillary beard is probably taking swiped by some. I had that done on youtube. Some joker i hope he was named tony martignetti stole the channel name tony martignetti and i have you riel tony martignetti but he doesn’t use it. So it’s ah, people don’t have trouble finding me? Not that anyone’s looking, but if they were looking, they wouldn’t have trouble finding me on youtube. Um, tell me about wall street what’s it what’s it like making a living equity say institutional equity sales what’s it like, what does that mean, that’s that place, like, actually, frankly, loved it. I did it for twelve years. I went into wall street thinking i would do it for two. Yeah, we’re really, really fell in love for long enough to stay for twelve instruction equity sales is basically where you manage the relationships for the largest institutional investors who invest in stocks. Okay, so on behalf of citigroup, so on you’re like, on account, uh, liaison to big companies buying stocks. Sort of. Yes, i minimize their eyes like so egregiously. Okay, clearly egregiously. So, what do you how do you how do you keep big institutional buyers happy? What you have to do, too, with more of their blackness is making money, right? So investing in stocks that go up and shorting stocks that go down. And so ah, lot of the business of the equity business of citigroup is to provide really good insights and ideas and research into the companies that they care about and delivering that content into your clients in a way which is consumable. Smart fits with their investment style. It helps them make money is really the core of what you do. Okay, but then there are all of these other services that citigroup offers and help clients run their money from financing stocks. Teo, all of the things that go around the core of running that business, okay, banking and credit relationships, things like that, things like that. Okay? And so core of that business is sort of managing that entire relationship to make sure they get the resource is that they need in orderto successfully run the business and a transition to non-profit work. What? What occasioned that, frankly, hurricane sandy, i had left wall street. I have two little kids already at home. And i decided that i wanted teo figure out what i wanted to do next. I had no idea what that was. Actually, frankly thought it would be in the finance world. Yeah, and hurricane sandy hit new york. And i was sitting in my living room working on a business plan for a finance business okay, and i just got really passionate about the idea that there were children who had gone to bed safe and sound the night before that woke up with no signs of food or shelter or warmth, their security. And so i went to work from my living room to create programs that generated millions of more meals, hundreds of thousands of blankets and warm winter coats for families all over the tri state area and my husband on dh, the executive director of robin hood both basically sat me down and said, please don’t go back to finance the passion that you feel around helping people is so significant. Do something else. Stay in the non-profit so you gave away your entrepreneurial dream, the plan you’re working on, you’re going to start your own business. I did put that aside, although running a non-profit is inherently credibly entrepreneur. Okay, if it’s done right, i think that’s done right. All right, all right, tell us a little about the jefferson awards and the and the foundation. Sure. So we we basically power public service. We’ve been around since nineteen seventy two started by jackie kennedy. Senator robert taft. Junior and my father, sam beard and the original idea was create a nobel prize for public service in america. Celebrate the very best of the country. You celebration to not only say thank you to people do amazing things, but also as a force multiplier to inspire others to do something good. We then translated into programs that accelerate and amplify service for people of every age. So, starting about ten years ago, we became one of the largest creators of public service in the country through training mechanisms and programs that engage individuals again of all ages to do service ranging from the donation of a single book from a child to a child all the way up. Tio young people in adult toe like who are impacting millions of lives and it’s ah, jefferson awards so what’s the awards side of this. So when the awards is the celebration peace. So we are effectively the gold seal of service in america. We give out a we give out jefferson awards the national level, you would know basically every name. Okay. Who’s, one of jefferson word over the last forty three years. And then we have a media. Partner program, where we partner with ah, local affiliates, newspapers, etcetera but primary news outlets in communities all over the country. But today, reaching to seventy eight million households on dh, they are empowered to take the jefferson award and celebrate local grassroots unsung heroes. All right, a nobel prize for ah, for outstanding program work and and saving lives for impact impact. How about the foundation itself? Just number employees, just a quaint little bit number of employees annual budget. So it’s about twenty seven, employees, we have a, uh, about a ten and a half million dollar annual budget, of which much of that is in-kind it’s about a three and a half million dollar operating revenue budget. Okay, and we’re going to go out for a break in roughly a minute or so. So just, uh, give us a little overviewing of what? What some of the lessons are that you brought from equity sales on dh wall street. Teo, your charitable work. And i think the biggest thing is just that any organization, whether it’s for-profit or non-profit, needs to be world class in order to be successful and that starts with everything from how you manage and set your employees up for success to your back end systems that govern how you pay your rent, you know, pay your expenses and collect your revenues to don’t hurt management. Teo everything that you do needs to look and feel like you set for-profit world, but it’s really for impact. So i’m guessing you believe non-profit is your tax status? Not your mindset? Correct? Yeah, cool. Okay, of course. Hillary stays with us. We go after this break. I hope you do too. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hillary schaefer let’s ah, let’s, dive into some of these lessons that you’ve brought with you this world class let’s start in the back end investment in infrastructure like c r, m databases, data management so that’s a that’s a terrific place to start because really every non-profit is powered by who they reach and how they reached them and how they communicate with, um and management of relationships, whether that’s a whether that’s, a donor, whether that’s, somebody, who’s won an award from our perspective, whether that somebody who has just invested in you are in your programs and how you understand that relationship, how you manage that relationship is all driven by the back end. Traditionally, people would use spreadsheets or just use, you know, sort of word and lists in their own brains, and fundamentally, it doesn’t get you as far as you need to get, and technology today is so sophisticated and there’s so many great great data pay systems that can integrate seamlessly with your website and with donor management tools and with, um, all mechanisms that you need to communicate effectively and really segment that communication into something that makes sense for that individual. It’s. Almost a shame not to you not to use it. Yeah, segmentation, and we’ll get to the benefit of that. I’ve had other guests. My voice just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old. I’ve had have a congratulations e. Everything else operates at, uh, the requisite age at fifty three. But my voice occasionally. Yeah, so we’ll get to the value of segmentation because people want to talk to personally, not not and mass and like everybody else, but so but this can be hard to invest in me, we’re talking about this is not serving program directly. This is not helping people directly. How do we overcome that mindset that we can get by with, you know, the lackadaisical, the the database that we’ve got her the internal processes we figured out our work arounds, you know we’re okay. It’s it’s finding you say that, right? Because they actually when you invest in a really good database management system and and client relationship manager, which is what c r m stands for, um, what you get out of it, that multiplier effect that you can get from having true, powerful relationships and understanding of all of your constituents, all consolidated is worth every dollar you know, and frankly there’s so many great systems which are out there, and they’re not that expensive. The most expensive part is the time of your staff, an external consultants, which you often need teo, take what is all of the stuff that you’ve cobbled together and to make it work for your organization. So an organization as an example we had brought in sales force. We use sales force. Um, we frankly had the wrong system installed with sales force. It took us a long time to figure out how to get the right system installed in all of those things. But it’s also taking us the better part of eighteen months to clean our data. Teo optimize our data to segment it appropriately so that we can communicate effectively with everybody in the way they want to be communicated with and a fair amount of staff time. And it’s that investment of taking somebody away from something that looks like perhaps it’s more important to their day to day life and put them into what’s really tedious work in order to be a better organization. But for us, if i think about it, if we have a database that reaches sixty thousand people, our ability to grow from an organization that reaches sixty this sixty thousand two, two, six hundred thousand to six million all contingent on us having optimized rc era this is key. So if you want to scale, you have to have the infrastructure to support that every organization wants to be at the next level i get so many questions about, you know, how do i get to next level? Can you refer me to somebody help us get to the next level? But i think often they don’t they’re not set up to get to the next level. They don’t they don’t have the support that they need, even if they were able to teo, multiply by ten there, you know the size of their their outreach. Without data, you have no chance. I’ll give you a great example in the nonprofit world statistic terrifies me, but something like sixty percent of donors don’t repeat on average across the non-profit space every year. Yeah, don’t come back, right? Well, don’t patrician right that’s because we’re not loving the people who are there. Everybody is focused on the next level. No, you’re focused on the next person you forget about the person who’s already said to you with their dollars. I care about what you d’oh at the heart of that is your database management system. I had a guest, peter shankman, um social media expert and marketing guy and his book is called zombie loyalists and basically had a last december. I think i had eternal you’re all your clients and customers into zombie loyalists that love you so much that they’re zombies for your work, and they’ll do your marketing, your pr, your communications for you, but ah, some of what he says boils down to the way to get the client you want is to be awesome to the client. You have that’s exactly right? I mean, i think about it from a from a fund-raising perspective. What the great fundraisers tell you is you should have four contacts with a donor for every time you ask them for something. No in orderto have those four contacts but matter to them, you need to know what they care about that needs to be in your database. You need to understand them that meets not only being your head. It needs to be institutionalized in your database. Ah, and then you need to have systems which set up, which push you to reach out to that person to make sure that you’re not forgetting to touch them four times before you go back to them and say, here’s, your invoice your sales force is a really cool example that you mentioned because for small shops it’s ideal, they’re the first ten licenses from sales force are free to non-profits and then they have a very deeply reduced ah fee for going beyond ten licenses. But i think for a lot of listeners ten licenses is enough for more than enough. So, you know, on i’ve had guests on from the non-profit technology conference and t c talking about the benefits of salesforce, you know, i think that’s right and sales force khun b a terrific tool it’s also it could be not that expensive or if you have the budget, the amount of tools that they have that you khun scale in two really optimizing take you to the next level are huge, so we don’t have we personally don’t have the budget we would love to have to spend with sales force, but we have a big, long wish list of things we would like to spend on specifically with sales force, with the tools that they have something bothering me to my head. Now, i didn’t mean to say lackadaisical databases, i meant to say lackluster, lackluster debate. Lackadaisical database doesn’t make any sense, it’s lazy, lazy self, you know, so that people could be lackadaisical. But the databases lackluster let’s talk a little about the segmentation of the benefit of communicating with people and showing that you know what their interests are when their birthdays are what they, how they like to be communicated with let’s, explore this know people are people, and everybody wants to feel touched individually. Nobody wants to feel like they’re part of a marketing campaign or that they’re part of a sort of a blast. People want to be touched individually. It’s why things like instagram work because they feel touched by a photograph ah, it’s the same thing with with donor or constituent segmentation everybody wants to feel like especially in the nonprofit world where you’re talking about emotion, you are effectively touching people where where they want to improve the world, but you’ve gotta understand which part of it inspires them. Yes, ah, and and also people like being cared for around the things that matter in their daily lives that have nothing to do with you. Ah, their children, their children’s ages what they d’oh? Ah, what their hobbies. Are where they like to travel all of those things. It just matters it’s all about having one on one of relationships. And the better your relationship is, the more likely you are to be able to maximize. And everything you’ve mentioned is data worth preserving its all data. You have to have people love it when you send them a note that says, happy birthday, no, super simple. It is very simple now. So what kinds of reminders do you get? Based on what kinds of things aside from birthday? What? Yeah. What others? Ah, it tends to relate to things that people have told you. Okay? And so for us, it would relate specifically to our program. So we have five different programs that have very, very different calendars. So that could relate. Teo, i i just need to get us a of the date because i know you desperately want to come to our national ceremony in new york city in march. Ah, but it could also be i know you really want to be. Ah, judge at our students in action conference in minneapolis. Ana and so getting that date to you in plenty of advance. Notice it really gets down to that level. All right? So the the value of segmentation and investment in infrastructure what about investment in consultants? You mentioned consulting? Nobody knows everything they need to know, but this could be tough to bring, bring other people in and have a fresh set of eyes evaluating you. It’s interesting on the consulting sight because i i personally have two two minds about consultants. Often i feel like you get charged too much for a percentage of somebody’s brain no on dh that’s the greatest risk with consulting. Ah, but also often they’re just expertise. You don’t want to bring in house. You can’t afford to bring in house, but you need somebody who has fresh eyes who knows something really specific that you don’t know ah, and with without which you can’t can’t go to the next level, you can’t execute effectively. So sales forces a terrific example. Um, there are so many tools inside sales force that enable you to do things like optimize your data and get rid of redundancy and all of those things, um and to, uh, to make it spoke for your organization for think the ways. In which you want to connect with people, i couldn’t do that myself, and i don’t have anybody in house who could do that for me. Could you just send your data data manager, database administrator to a sales force conference or course, yes, we do that too, okay, but it’s not enough, and for the cost of bringing you know you’ve got you’ve got away out the cost. So the question is, can you find somebody who is affordable to you in your organization that helps bring in those that kind of expertise in? I’m their things like building out an effective communication strategy where if you don’t have a big, robust communications team who can think about everything from database management, teo email to social media to all the things that go into digital infrastructure ah, and communications calendars and all of those things. At some point, it becomes really smart to bring in somebody from the outside to say, i’m building you a structure i’m helping you think about inside your organization, for you what a structure would look like, that you can afford let’s turn to our people i think my voice is my voice was crack again, it’s. A big bag, maybe. Yeah, you know. Uh, so you’re important asset, probably your most valuable asset. Most important, most expensive it’s expensive. I would guess inside most non-profits that that people are seventy eight percent of cost big, big, big percentage, um, and making impact in the world all relates to the people who you were in power to make that impact on your behalf as as either a full time employee or an independent contractor and losing employees is as expensive as losing the donors we were talking about, if not more so, you know woobox the amount of time you then need to spend teo find the person, bring them in house, and on average, it takes six to eighteen months to really optimize an employee. That’s a long time to invest in somebody new if you have somebody who’s good who’s sitting there right in front of you. The most important thing with people always is that they feel like they’re being set up to succeed. And they’re being given the tools that they need. Ah, to succeed. All right, how do we do this? Ah, well, that everything from the really basic and can feel very cumbersome to a management manager piece. But ah, gold setting and reviews, letting people know where they stand, being really straightforward with them about what they’re doing that’s terrific, and where they need to develop development goals is a big, big, big piece, and i don’t mean development is in fund-raising i mean, personal development, professional development around how can you be a much more effective employees? For the most part? Certainly in my experience, whether it’s on wall street or in the nonprofit world, when you sit in a review with somebody, they barely hear the good stuff ninety nine percent of what you tell them could be good. Everybody waits for the butt, the but needs to be real, meaning it needs to be i understand you here’s, where i see helping to take you as a human being and as a professional to the next level, and being able to deliver that in a way which is non threatening but having systems and structures around delivering reviews around goal, setting around, holding people accountable to those goals and around understanding them and wanting to be on their side are all the the most important things you can do, and it doesn’t matter what. Kind of an organization you’re out to do that my guest last week, we’re from the university of pittsburgh, and they were talking about incentive pay something that pitt has set up. They’ve defined what an exemplary fundraiser is. It’s basically achieving two hundred percent of your goal. But that’s a big organization, university of pittsburgh, might there be other ways of implementing incentive pay around? Aside from strictly money, money comp, you know, incentives are interesting in non-profits because, um, a, for the most part, non-profits don’t use sort of base bonus type structures, but there are tons of other ways that you can make somebody feel really good about what they do and whether that’s simply celebrating their accomplishments to the other employees into your board. People really thrive on that, but it can also be other things, like giving them an extra days vacation. Um, you know, sending them home on purpose when their kid’s sick and you tell them that family comes first, you know, all those things that’s really more around culture, but there are there are smart things you can do where you say, you know what? I don’t have the dollar to give. You. But i do have a day to give you or two or whatever it is. Whatever it is, that you’ve earned benefits structures are very important. Um, covering people and their families, and how you do that and how you communicate it. Incredibly important and totally under sort of undervalued in the mindset in the nonprofit world about what that means to an individual. And you say, i care about you and your health, and i care about your family in there. We have just about a minute left or so we have a couple more than more than a couple minutes. How much time do we have left? Sam? Okay, dahna then let’s. Ah, my mistake. Let’s. Keep talking about some some policies around employment. Maybe around training. You’ve got a new employee. You’ve spent the requisite amount of time recruiting you believe you’ve got the best person, the orientation, the training process, the onboarding process oven employees that one of the single most important things that you d’oh. So with us, justus a simple example. First, everybody gets a very long, very detailed employee manual that they have to read where they really understand what the operating premises are of the organ you’re holding your hands, like four inches apart for inches. It’s not four inches thick. Okay, okay. They’re recording, so that would be way too much street. All right, but i use my hands a lot. I think i’m going to italy and one hundred in italian, so i didn’t think you were using them enough. That must be the eight and half months. Pregnant part. Yes, i understand. Ok, the but having that set of expectations in somebody’s mind where they read it? They have to affirm it. They have to tell you that they’ve read it. That tells them everything from how many vacation days they do have, how they can accrue more vacation, what the benefits are to them, how they can get in trouble, how they can stay out of trouble. What a whistle blower policy might look like. All of those things very, very important, but then bringing people into the culture of the organization into your programs where they really feel armed. Tio ah, to be an effective employees. Ah, it’s. So fundamental. So we we set up a schedule time with all of our program managers. We have our end of its staff. When they come in they go. They shadow individuals who do either their job or even other jobs inside the organization. Because you’ve got to understand the entire organization. I think in order to be effective in your silo. Um ah, and then we do profession. We were very open to paying from people doing professional development and encourage it. Ah, and then we do regular staff retreats where everybody comes together and we work on pieces that feel like they might be holes in the skill set to the entire organization again. Investment where its infrastructure or people? You just you can’t shortchange these things and expect to scale on grow the organization. I mean, for the amount it costs me, tio run a staff retreat every year, eyes about one percent of what it costs me to pay my staff. Yeah, that is a very worthwhile investment to make that staff be a leverage oppcoll army. We’re gonna leave it there. Hillary shafer she’s uh, executive director of jefferson awards foundation there at jefferson awards dot or ge and again on twitter. She’s at beard, hillary. Thank you so much, hillary. Thank you. Real pleasure and gun muzzle tough. Congratulations on your pregnancy. Thank you very much. Jean takagi and program your board coming up first. Pursuant acquisition campaigns. They had a free webinar to help you acquire new donors. That was back on august thirty first. But it’s not too late. This is not a date news. No, no one current news. You can watch the archive. Go to tony dot m a slash pursuant capital p please. And the info was there to watch. The archive video tony dahna em a slash pursuant for the archive on acquisition campaigns. Rechner, cps. They do go way beyond the numbers. They have lots of policy statements for you. Ah, more than from last week. Ethical conduct for board members, disaster recovery, investment policy, independent contractor versus employee checklist i know non-profit struggle with that. We’ve covered it and there’s a lot more resources at wagner cpas dot com quick resource is then guides that’s where you get all this good info stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books you aren’t a business you’re non-profit appaloosa counting is designed for non-profits built from the ground up to make your non-profit financial management simple and affordable. Please check this out. Our new sponsor, apple, owes its fund accounting, advanced reporting, donation tracking and there’s mohr included in annapolis. Accounting it’s all in one, easy to use. Go to non-profit wizard dot com now for tony’s take two. I still got this five minute marketing for planned e-giving i condensed down to the to the, uh most essential information twenty five minutes. Hard to believe that i could talk for twenty five minutes and it not all be critical. I had difficulty with that, but the whole concept of distilling it down. But i did. And i got it down to about three minutes. Roughly and that’s the best of the five minute marketing tips that i’ve got for you for planned giving. I want you to get started with your plan giving marketing. Watch the tips. Check out the video. Three minutes worth it’s at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two. And here is jean takagi with program you’re bored jean takagi he’s, a principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Gene has been gene has been a regular contributor to show it’s got to be going on three years. Gina i if it’s not three it’s very close. He had it’s, the non popular of the non popular beautiful he had it’s the popular non-profit law blawg dot com non-profit law blogged dot com it’s very popular. And on twitter he’s at jack g t k happy new year jean takagi. Welcome back. Happy new year. Tony it’s. Great to be on. Thank you. I love having you. How long have you been? A contributor every month, i think it’s been a little over three years. A zit? Is it over three? Love it. It could be i think we met three years ago at a bar in san francisco, if i remember, right? Oh, for sure. It’s not like we pick. I picked you up there where i knew you before. I’m not that easy with contributors. I mean, yes, we we knew each other. And then we certainly did meet that’s, right? With along with emily chan? Yes. That’s. Right. Um, let’s see, our board has our board has some responsibilities and around program you’re concerned that they’re not they’re not fulfilling those responsibilities. Yeah, i just feel like there’s there’s, maybe some lack of attention paid on the boards roll on program oversight? I think so often went especially when you talk with lawyers or accountants were talking about financial oversight and we’re saying we’ll make sure you’re solvent. Make sure you have enough money to pay off your debts. They become do we don’t really talk very much about programs, but certainly the management folks and the thunder’s air talking about programs and whether they’re effective and efficient that furthering the mission. So, you know, i thought we should explore a little bit about what the board duties are in in that event as well. Can you just remind us first, we’ve talked about this a while ago. There are three duties that board members have. I was faith, hope and chastity, or on the greatest of those is but yeah, the three duties are the duty of care and that’s act with reasonable care in providing direction and oversight over the organization, the duty of loyalty, and a lot of that has to do with avoiding conflicts of interests that are not in the best interest of the organizations, but are more for the best interest of an insider and the duty of obedience which lawyers air very interested in, and that’s a bang with both the outside laws of you know, that apply to the organization and the internal laws like the by-laws and other policies that the documents may have those air the three to be to be concerned with. Okay and and around program program is essential. Man. That’s what charity’s exist for his programs? Oh, my voice just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old exist that’s. Exciting stuff. Now that it is, it is that’s. Right? Well, you make it interesting. That’s. Why? I love having you back. You make the what could very well be a dry topic. I think you make it interesting. And listeners do too. Yeah. That’s. What? Charity’s air here is for a program. Yeah, exactly. I mean, who cares? The indie at the end of the day, if we’ve got great financials, it’s none of our programs are effective, and we don’t do a service to the community. Precisely. So what? What do we need to be doing? What to boards need to be doing around around program. Well, i think in meeting those three duties, the critical aspect for boards to make sure they’re reasonably informed. Ah, and just get a program report every month or every two months. You know, a ten minute program report from the executive director or program director is fine and good. But does that mean the board really understands the programs and whether the advance the mission on do they understand how the program’s advance emission? And did they ever ask you more difficult questions about are the programs effective? At advancing the mission. Or do we have alternatives? Or should we think of alternatives that might be able to advance that mission mohr effectively or more efficiently, given the limited resources that we all have? First up in this is and we have talked about this, your mission needs to be very clear. Yeah, and one of the things you have to do is make sure you go back. And this is the lawyer speaking, make sure you go back to your articles of incorporation and by-laws and make sure that the mission statement that years, thinking that you’re furthering is consistent with what the law says your mission is, and that’s that’s how it’s displayed on the governing documents and figuring out whether we are effective at meeting our mission. Now we’ve gotto identify cem numbers, right? I mean, it’s, not just gonna be a ten minute report from the program director, we’ve got to be looking at some numbers to figure out whether our we’re having the outcomes that we want, right and it’s such a such a difficult question and that’s, why it’s it’s all about keeping informed? Because you know the whole area of program. Evaluation and that cantor and and a lot of institutions like the stanford center on philanthropy in civil society and mckinsey and, you know, the non-profit cordially foundations under the all have been raiding all sorts of things on program evaluation and how we need more metrics and, you know, but all of that is great, but this is really hard stuff for a lot of non-profits to do so, yes, trying to figure out what what measurements are are important for us to figure out. Are we advancing our mission effectively? And then are we advancing it efficiently is really hard stuff, i think tip typically non-profits will, you know, measure how much money we’ve raised, how many visitors we’ve had or people with served, how many members we have? What is our overhead ratio on? We’ve had discussions on that topic as well, and, you know, those are interesting figures in all important, and i don’t want to downplay that, but what about, you know, then, you know, the number of clients served, for example, does that really tell us what impact that’s done? No before the clients and you know, the program staff may know that, but how does the board know that if we have? If we served two thousand clients last month, did we did we serve them by giving them one meal? Did that change their lives? Did we do more than that? Did we provide services? What? What and impact are we trying to aim for? And what results are we getting those air really difficult things to try to figure out. But i think the board needs to push the organization in that direction. Of trying to figure out are the programs that write programs? Are we effectively implementing it? And if you want to, you know, evaluate your executive and evaluate your programs. You’ve gotta have a good understanding of that. I feel your passion around this, jean. I really do. It comes it’s it’s palpable. Now, in managing these programs, it’s not the board’s roll. Teo to be day to day there’s clearly there’s a delegation that has to be happening. Yeah, absolutely. And and the board certainly has the ability to and should be delegating if they have staff in an executive director. Particularly, um, delegating those duties on those people. And especially, you know, holding the executive accountable. And tasking executive and making sure the executive has resources to be able to do this, to try to figure out what measurements should we take? Teo, evaluate our programs. What what’s important? What do we have the capacity to do now? And what? What do we aspire to do? What are outside stakeholders wanting? What are the foundations saying we must have? And what are the donor’s expecting from us and how to our competitors provide that type of information back? I think we just need to push our executives. We’re lucky enough to have them to figure some of those things out. And none of this has done overnight. Of course, tony. But you know, you you’ve gotto work at this, and sometimes you’re going to move forward, and sometimes you gotta move backwards. But you’ve got to keep pushing, pushing ahead. You just asked five or six really difficult but critical questions. Um, it’s a good thing. This is a podcast cause now people can listen. Go, go back to the past one minute and listen to those five or six questions. Jean just just named, you know, difficulty, but but but critical. And and yet the board’s oversight responsibility remains, and that can’t be delegated. That’s, right? So you know, the board, khun delegate management, but the board can’t delegate its ultimate oversight of the organization and it’s, you know, it’s responsibility to plan the direction of the organization. So status quo, if you know if that’s all you’re satisfied with and you don’t aim to do anything else with that, you know, that may not that may indicate that you don’t have the best board in place, and i was a little shocked. Teo learned, i think two days ago guidestar held a web cast, and there was a survey done of executive directors, and seventy five percent said they were unhappy with their boards and there’s a big disconnect there seventy five percent approved. Okay, what else? What else, uh, is part of the boards oversight of program? Gene? Well, you know, one thing i kind of want to emphasize as well is that i don’t want to put all of this on the board of directors, and i realized that the vast majority of board members are volunteers and have busy lives otherwise and are doing an amazing job. Trying to contribute to their organizations, the disconnect with the exec director is usually because of communications and a lack of understanding of their respective roles. So i just want to put a little bit of a burden on the executive director as well, to make sure that they are emphasizing board development and helping the board understand its responsibilities and sometimes bringing in experts, even though they may cost a little at the outset. Khun b really valuable to an organisation to try to figure out what these roles are, and again put in a little investment up front, and you can get payoff down the road even if you have some failures along the way. But it’s just that continuing to push forward to trying to understand what you’re doing who’s responsible for what? On figuring that stuff out the metrics themselves again. Our khun b, you know, exceedingly difficult if if i asked you give us metrics on changing laws when we were fighting for civil rights, well, that might take years or decades to get any measurable results per se that might make a thunder happy. And you know what would have happened in the early sixties you know, civil rights organizations just had their program shut down because boards didn’t get the right metrics. That would have been ridiculous, right? So we have to understand the limitation of these measurements as well, but continue to try to figure out what important steps or benchmarks we’re shooting for and what’s important to do, even if we don’t get the metrics. Ah, and make sure our funders and donors and stakeholders understand those limitations. Well, just a minute or so before before breaking what? What kind of expert would help us with this? What would we search for? Well, there there are some consultants out there who specialize in program evaluation, and there there are definitely resource is out there. I have named a few organizations already, but let me give you a few more the foundation centre and they’re grantspace website has got some excellent resource is on program evaluation, the national council of non-profits also has some excellent resources. They’re they’re definitely resource is out there. And if you look for non-profit consultants who got program evaluation exper thirties, i think that can be a starting place. This is also a ripe area for collaboration. Amongst organizations that are serving similar populations, or half similar missions, to try to meet together and talked about how they’re measuring, you know, their program, results and what would work for maybe, you know, across the sub sector that that they’re serving, all of those things are really important. I think again, executive leadership is really important to get the board in motion, but the board also has to hold the executive responsible for making sure that happens as well. Let’s, take a break. Gene and i, of course, will keep talking about the board’s responsibility around program and the executive director’s, too. Lynette singleton and at lays, right. Thank you for thank you very much. For those very, very kind thoughts on twitter. Hang in there. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist market of eco enterprises charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. More live listener love junction china ni hao, the netherlands gary indiana the home of christmas story, right? I’m pretty sure a christmas story that movie took place in gary, indiana live listen, i’d love to gary, indiana, and we’ve got a couple checking in from japan, hiroshima and kobe konnichi wa, farmington, michigan live listener love out to you. We have a question from twitter jean very loyal listener lynette singleton asks, do we know why there’s this lack of love between executive directors with and their boards, any ideas what’s contributing to that? I think i’m sorry, tony, that i think there are a number of factors that make be contributing to that, but i think the first is lack of understanding of the rules at each place and then it’s it’s a matter of communication between the two parties there are greater vacations that that board’s place on executives and reliance on the executives tio tio make do with limited resources to produce amazing results, and that can sometimes be a very heavy burden on the executive without a lot of support from the board and exactly what the board’s role is in supporting the executive director’s. Also, i think they’re many areas where there’s a lack of agreement or understanding between those roles and, you know, fund-raising is actually one of the areas of ax. Actually, some controversy, i think, you know, is the board involved. Is the board’s role no to raise funds for the organisation. From a legal perspective, i might answer no to some extent, from a more operational perspective, i would say, of course it is, so they’re they’re different considerations, and that was a charity navigator study, right? I’m not sure. I thought you said i’d start with, i’m sorry, the organization that did the webinar. Okay, okay, god start. Pardon me. Ok wave talking, talking about program meeting the mission, but there’s also legal requirements around program as well. Sure, and then the board should make sure that the executive is ensuring that the program is in compliance with whatever applicable laws might be there, whether it have to do with the facility of the organization or the employees and volunteers working for it, their basic risk management steps that they may want to take a swell, including ensuring that there’s proper insurance that, for whatever activities are are involved. Obviously, if you’re doing a summer day camp involving rope climbing and like that that’s going to be a little bit more significant in terms of risk management than if you’re just doing administrative work, but lots of legal compliance things, licensing, permitting and in all of those think, well, can board members be personally liable if laws are being broken and that’s why we have directors and officers insurance, isn’t it? Yeah, part partly why we have that it’s usually, you know, if there’s some sort of negligence involved when the board members acting not as a boardmember but is a volunteer for a program, then you’re probably looking at commercial general liability insurance to protect against, you know, somebody slip and fall and blaming the volunteer who was right supposed to set it up on the board members, directors and officers. Insurance will really protect against decisions that the board made that ultimately, you know, in hindsight, we’re negligent or grossly negligent, and, you know, if they decided to hold a program in involved involving bungee jumping with six year olds and without adequate supervision that, you know, that would be the type of negligence that could get boardmember personally liable for something like that. But volunteermatch boardmember czar really, really, really rarely held personally liable absent some sort of malfeasance or self dealing really benefit themselves. Okay, i’ve seen some six year olds on the subway that i wouldn’t mind having participate in that that bungee jumping off a cliff i could i could give them a little shove to get them started, but not not kids. I know nobody related to me only only what’s people i’ve seen in some pipe it that it go well, now they’re real. I’ve seen him in the subway, i just don’t know who they are. I can’t name them, but i could point them out easily. Probably on my way home. I’ll encounter a few. Um, what else should we be thinking about? You know, your get before i asked before we do that, you’re an anarchist. Also, you’re making us. I got two troublemakers on the show today. You are making us ask questions that are very difficult, but but critical? Yeah. You know, i think of lawyers and consultants more broadly, that’s what what we do, we can implement the changes that we talked about, what we want to raise the questions because we want boards and executives to really be thinking about these things and discussing them. And that’ll help break down the barriers and the misunderstandings and hopefully make more executive directors feel that their boards air great, make more executive, make more boards feel that their executive directors are doing a great job as well. As i said, i feel your passion around this. We have just about two minutes. What? You have another thought around this? Yeah. You know, just tio, make sure that again and i’ve talked a little bit about this is that there are limitations to what metrics can provide to an organization and some things just take a really long time to figure out research i mentioned lobbying on civil rights issues is one example, but research as well, you know, for going to engage in research of a new program and how it’s going to work or developing a new medical device or drug that’s going to be beneficial to developing nations and that the people there who might not have the resources to be able to afford these things, we’ve got to be a little bit experimental. And i know you know, there’s been preaching to the choir about embracing failure and sharing it so we can learn in advance, but that really is something that all echo as well, that, you know, we’re going to get metrics and sometimes the metrics they’re going to show we failed, but if we never fail, that means we’ve never really pushed the envelope of making a more substantial change, and we’re just sort of, you know, relying on making little incremental changes, and we have to think about our organizations and say, are we detective organization that just wants to stay status quo? Do we want to make little tiny? Incremental changes year by year or do we actually want to look at solving or advancing our mission in a really big way and actually take some risk and find some programs out there that might be more risky and that might fail and help educate our funders and our donors and our supporters that this is what we’re doing and not everything is going to work, but this is the way to advance, you know, our cause lawyer with a heart, jean jean takagi, really so grateful that you’re contributing to the show? Jean, thank you so much. Thank you, johnny. And thanks for basing this serious subject today. That’s all right, uh, we have a little fun with it. You’re an anarchist is no question cubine you’ll find jean at non-profit law blogged dot com that’s the block that he edits and he’s at g tack on twitter. Thank you again, jean, thanks so much. Next week it’ll be a good one. You have my word. I don’t know anything about fermentation. 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