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Nonprofit Radio for June 29, 2018: Storytelling II & Test Quest

 

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My Guests:

Miriam Brosseau: Storytelling II
Building on last week, Miriam Brosseau has on-the-ground tips for digital storytelling that break down your internal silos and resolve organizational frustrations. She’s like your storytelling therapist, from See3 Communications. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

(L to R) Garcia & Hilson

Nick Garcia & Jack Hilson: Test Quest
Email, landing page and digital ad testing: What it is; how to do it; and what to do with your results. Nick Garcia and Jack Hilson are with Mal Warwick Donordigital. (Also from the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of our throw piau sis, if we issued a joint statement that you missed today’s show storytelling too, building on last week mirriam brousseau has on the ground tips for digital storytelling that breaks down your internal silos and resolves organizational frustrations. She’s like your storytelling therapist from c three communications that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and test quest email landing page and digital ad testing. What is it how to do it? And what do you do with your results? Nick garcia and jack ilsen are from now warwick donordigital responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by telus durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream, tony dahna em a slash tony tell us here is storytelling, too, with mirriam brousseau. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference in new orleans. We’re wrapping up our coverage of day two with mirriam brousseau welcome mirriam hey, tony, great to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you. Thank you. This interview with mirriam is sponsored by network for good is the use easy to use dahna management and fund-raising self where for non-profits mirriam is chief information officer at sea three communications it’s e three and her workshop topic is going to be talking about you like you’re not here. Your workshop topic is bust those silos exclamation mark how your digital storytelling khun build internal collaboration welcome again hey, uh, what? Uh, what’s, the overarching lesson that we should be learning like what’s the give us the take away the biggest takeaway about digital storytelling and non-profits not collaborating as well as they might internally. Yeah, absolutely so the way that a lot of our non-profit organizations are structured is intended to be convenient for the organization itself. How convenient for you built around efficiencies and and all of these more easy to manage things that don’t necessarily lead to a whole lot of trust or collaboration. And we’re living in an age today where everything is built around the u customer around the user around that individual person and so storytelling is a great mechanism for humanizing our organization’s overall and starting to build that that supporters centris ity and thinking about how we can shift our operations to be more about the people that we serve in the people who might make our impact possible very articulate. I do it again because we’ve been talking about donor-centric city for i don’t know, ten years or something on there still organizations that may feel they’ve mastered it, but i think our our yeah deceiving themselves, they’re still built around themselves and their saddles. How do we know? Okay, how do we know if we are one of the organizations? And i’m talking about the things we’ve mastered mastered it? We think we’ve broken down silos and we’re donor-centric but we’re not out of one of the symptoms we might be experiencing. How do we know? Yeah, well, you definitely feel it internally if there’s hierarchical management that, you know, really a sense of of control slowness of tackling the same kind of issues over and over without really getting at the root problem. It was like the first time we’ve done this thing. And we’ve done it a hundred times. Yes, yes, precisely so that and then you can also see it in your messages, of course. And so something that c three does a lot with our clients is will calculate what what we call a supporter inclusion score where you look at a single piece of messaging and basically tally up the number of times that you have mentioned the organization in some way, the name of the organization, the ceo, the name of a programme, whatever it is on dh, then you tally up the times that you’re using the word you or you’re referencing the word donor or volunteer or using their name, for instance, and you divide one by the other and see how closely you get two one for so, which would represent more of a partnership. Or if you’re if you’re above one, then you’re really demonstrating that that donor, that person you’re reaching out tio is the center of the story represented through that through that language. You and your yeah, very good words. Yeah. Working in your promotion and marketing. Yes. Shifting that book, it’s just a little bit. Okay. And now how is digital storytelling going to help us. So, there’s, we recommend sort of three step process for thinking about this. Ok, s o the first part of it is a three step process is like click candy for radio. Oh, yeah, you were goingto neo-sage okay, i got you click bait, ready and raring to go for you. So the three steps or the following, first of all, be sure that you are telling the whole story because a lot of non-profits focus on telling the story of the direct beneficiary and not a whole lot else. But when you zoom out and you think about who are all of the characters in our story, who are all the people that we really need in order to make our impact possible? It’s the volunteers it’s, thie, it’s, it’s the donor’s themselves who were usually talking to. But we could also tell their own stories. Their engagement with our missions is impacting them as people in a way more holistic storytelling. Yeah, absolutely. I’m putting a different word on it not but the whole story totally zoom. I’ll get a picture of all those characters on dh. Then think about if you were to position one of those characters as the center of the story is the hero. What would need to happen in eternally in order to gather that only one of those characters and the volunteers? Yeah, the programme. The programme officer? Yeah, doing deliveries up. Ok, so yeah. Ok. Andi, what do you got? Elsa? Right. So first of all, it zoom out, put that right. So zoom out until the whole story and think about it. Think about what are the what are the how do you support that story by through whatever internal processes and that’s that’s the really the clincher there? Because when you’re in a silent organisation to get a siloed culture and culture will eat your storytelling strategy for breakfast, lunch and dinner very well nourished someone recorded you saying that. Okay? I don’t know who was. I’ve done a lot of interviews, but someone said, you know, you know i’m not sure she remembered where she hurt you. One of the sessions i was in someone said culture will eat your strategy for lunch. Oh, yes. Cultures the hungry because you recorded you’ve been quoted on not brother radio. You know you made it i wish i wish you could have contributed. Well, now, the way now we have the attribution. Diego came from that’s great. So so the only the the peace of our arsenal that we have against culture, a culture and and shifting towards that that storytelling you centric strategy is process. Really. So how do we build it into our meetings and our interactions with everybody else in the organization? In order to move in that direction and sort of humanize on and then the final steps. So if you’ve named all of your you’ve gotten that holistic view, you’ve named all your characters you’ve centered one as a hero, building into the process internally, how you captured that story and then finally treating your colleagues the way that you would any good donorsearch a thank you, sell them, tell them the impact of what happened acknowledged that their contribution to this particular story had this had this effect on you personally or on the way that the story went out in the world or the impact of that story going further out. So, yeah, humanizing and putting those folks at the centre, it pays dividends altum i love the idea of thinking of your fellow colleague as a donor? I mean, how how would you treat a donor? Yeah, this search they’re making their character in that story. They’re making a meaningful investment in the work that you’re doing and should be acknowledged for that. Okay, all right, time for a break pursuant. Their newest paper is the digital donation revolution, thanks to amazon’s one click to buy and recommendations based on purchases you’re online donors have higher expectations of you when they give online doesn’t matter that you don’t have amazons budget and expertise you know you need to measure up, get the digital donation revolution it’s on the listener landing page tony dahna slash pursuing radio now back to storytelling too. So let’s see how we, uh, let me break this down too. Wait till i tell the whole story way got to get out of this mindset that it’s all just about the person who’s enjoying the outcome with the right. How do we do this in storytelling? We want to do storytelling in like three minutes. I’m think of a video. Yeah, am i being too narrow? First of all, we’ll use a digital. Storytelling? Yeah. Do you mean beyond video? Oh, for sure, for sure. Okay. Well, kind of kind of content. You’re absolutely any kind of content that your parents know that you’re capturing. Tio talk about your your mission in your impact. Okay, so then how do we what advice do you have for starting the starting to be more holistic in the storytelling? Yeah, so i think, first of all, just literally listening out all of the people that are required in order to make your impact possible and and thinking about one of the things that we also recommend organizations do is think about what’s the intersection between your mission and that person’s aspirations for themselves. So our missions are very forward facing. We’re trying to change something. We’re trying to tackle some injustice and make the world better. So it’s all about the future. And so when we think about those different characters, we want to think about what they envisioned for themselves, for their future and how what kind of person do they aspire to be? And if we can speak to that speaks to that intersection of like, how does engaging with our mission helped these? People become the kind of person that they want to be, then we’re going to have a winning formula in our storytelling very esoteric question, yeah, so let me let me bring it down worse than often example, yeah, so it can be so, but i think it actually makes things a lot easier on us because it’s not about developing necessarily a whole user persona and getting it demographics and like, i don’t care if they shop at target or if they listen to spotify, i care about who they want to be. So for instance, we’ve done a lot of work with the make a make a wish foundation, and some of the characters are in their story are not just the wish kid who’s, the beneficiary of their work, but for instance, thie social worker who was referring that child for a wish, what kind of person does he or she wants to be? Well, they they got into this business in order to serve children and make their lives better and be able tio provided it in a way that they that the family’s night might not be able to if the kids going through a tough time and so in what ways does engaging with make a wish, help them reach that aspirational goal? Um and so when you put that social worker at the centre of the story and talk about their lives and what they’re seeing every day and then saying and what they bring to your organization, how we overlook how we overlap exactly, yeah, and so when so then the story becomes, well, i’m a social worker, and this is what i deal with every day, and when i get to tell a child that i’m referring them for a wish and that this is going teo, you know, it’s it’s, it humanizes your mission, it’s it exponentially expand your impact because suddenly you’re not just serving this single beneficiary it’s absolutely everybody who’s touched by that experience has an impact there being affected by that and it’s changing it’s, changing and transforming their lives and in meaningful ways to and so when you tell that story, it not only bus up things inside, where suddenly i have to talk to the medical outreach team in order to capture that story in the first place, but you’re also opening up a brand new door for other social workers for other people who see themselves in that kind of aspirational role, tio walk through and say like and say, oh, well, i want to be that so you’re not you’re telling the story from their perspective from from the perspective of each of the people involved in this handing over the mike being authentic about it service chain, or if you if you will oppcoll tell me more way our next step, yeah, i think so. I’ll give you another. I’ll give you another exercise because the venn diagram overlap thing is kind of esoteric, so s so when you do have that that list of characters and just list as many as you can be as specific as possible, one exercise that we walk through people through is to do a very simple mad lib you space, which this so the first. So the first space is you take this particular action, you do this thing which and then named the impact. So you, for instance, the social worker, you refer children to make a wish, which does you know all these wonderful things for that child and their family, and honing in on the u which language for each of those characters, is a really powerful exercise, because first of all, you don’t get to name your organization and you don’t get to say you, you don’t get to talk about your programs, you have to go straight from that supporter to the impact that they make and your organization is the witch it’s, the it’s, the means it’s, the facilitator it’s the mechanism by which that that person is making their impact in the world. There’s not even name. Yeah, yeah. So that’s that’s part of that that donor-centric city, that kind of shifting that perspective, you language. It always starts with a u and so an exercise of simple is that can be kind of the core of your messaging for that particular persona or audience segments. Okay, very that’s, great it’s, super fun and it’s. Great to kind of get out of the box with thinking about that for different, for different folks and to really, like, hone in on it and on give it some poetry about and there was this the way in which we make them the hero of the story it’s a it’s. A great way to start. This is the starting, you know, we don’t. Yeah. Okay. We’re not quite there. Yeah, okay. Yeah. All right. So let’s, let’s go to that way. So any one of these characters in the chain of service, any one of these important parts in that chain can now be the focus of the story and how they interact with our organization and our service beneficiaries? Yeah. Okay, give me give me another client story would make a wish or another one that this is you’ve seen. You’ve seen impact. Yeah, absolutely. All the love story of so many great stories. Well, i’m going to give you another make-a-wish example, just because that’s, they’ve got some great, powerful stuff and that’s the first thing that came to mind. So in some of this work there’s a minnesota chapter of make-a-wish made this beautiful video in which they positioned one of their volunteers is the hero of the story. And instead of necessarily focusing on the on the wish kid and it was this story in which the child himself had a condition in which he was unable to speak and really move around a whole lot. And his wish was to have a door really to be able to go out into his backyard and and see beyond the four walls of his house, which immediately just like tugs at your heartstrings. So but telling his story in a way, is not terribly relatable. It’s not i can’t. I can’t really empathize with that situation and it’s actually a little uncomfortable to even think about that and so repositioning story, they they put the hero as the contractor, the builder who actually came in and made that possible, and they talked to him. They talked to the people that he worked with, and i think it they showed the emotional and just sort of life affirming impacts of that being involved in this wish had on that person who’s like this, you know, fifty some year old contract huge e-giving door who’s just building a door, breaking a wall on drilling a door. But he’s the hero, you say he’s, the hero of the story and you watch that and it is so it’s, so emotional and powerful and just draws you in in a way that the story of the wish kid never could and part of what i think this this kind of mentality forces us to do is to recognize that everybody’s got a story everybody’s being transformed by these little moments. And what i love about about storytelling about shifting messaging in this way, is that it? It builds a culture of noticing and of paying attention. Yes. Being intentional. Yes. Paying e-giving attention to others. Yes. How did that story gets told? Was it was it through video that was through video? They had a video version of it. They also published it as as a block post. But it’s ah, yeah, they had a couple of different versions, but the video itself was was the most powerful representation. Okay, we, uh, just got a note that the whole point five o’clock and we were misinformed. So listen, i need another. I need another ten minutes. Can i get ten minutes from the security? You could see that we’re on camera. Right? Gonna get can i get them? Really? I mean, i got a fifteen minute, you know, we’re going to do this for another ten minutes, okay? I don’t know what the time of day is, but i know that. Mirriam and i have been talking for almost sixteen minutes, and i need another ten. Is that okay? Wait, don’t go anywhere, and i’m sorry, we we didn’t know that we were told that, yeah, okay, thank you, little side conversation. Just have the security, gentlemen. Thank you, thank you, sir. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’m not cutting us off. Fundez live, live, live, recorded in every story, have to have that challenge that has to be overcome, so this is us on the other side. All right, so that was a video story that contract. I love that it’s. Just the guy. We just came to break the door. All right, build a door. Yeah. Let’s, keep going, let’s. Keep going, people. This idea of treating your colleagues the way you would treat a donor you said mohr. But that part resonated with me and we flush it out a lot more. Sure, we just lost the light. Okay, garrett, we’re losing the light. The hole is closing. Okay, it’ll come back. Garrett says it’ll come back on. Okay, there we go. All right. Non-profit radio perseveres. I don’t care what happens. Yeah. So we’re going nowhere going nowhere. Nobody’s going to take us that? Yeah. I mean, i think that heart of especially when you’re working in a silo toe organization. It’s very easy to get caught up in what’s wrong and focus on the tough stuff and want to fix all the problems and anybody who gets involved in non-profit work is a fixer, right? That’s, our that’s, our inclination. We want to make things better. And i think sometimes that we end up losing sight of what actually working. And it’s been shown in all kinds of organizational studies and with with regards to our the way that we change ourselves. The whole positive psychology movement, for instance, is built on this. Premise that if you start with what’s working, you can actually demonstrate more progress more quickly and, you know, put together these sort of lasting change efforts. And part of starting with what’s. Working is is acknowledging the good stuff and saying thank you and being appreciative. And it just changes. It uplifts the whole culture. Is there a client story that you can share that where you saw you saw this make a difference in our organization? Yeah, i mean, i think so it goes hand in hand a little bit with building that storytelling piece into the process as well, these three elements of kind of knowing all your characters, building in the process to gather those stories and then reporting back on the impact and saying, thank you s o we had ah, ah, a little while back, we did a strategy engagement with hillel international, they have a they offer one of many versions of ah, trip for young jews to go visit israel and and build that a nation with it with the country and the people, and they were having a hard time differentiating themselves from the other providers and sort of saw it as a marketing challenge. And what we’ve learned in what we’ve learned that c three is that most marketing challenges are actually internal alignment challenges that can be that, like, with a few little internal tweaks, you can actually do a lot better. And so part of what we built into that strategy into their process. Was first of all regular story gathering moments between them in the united states and the trip providers in the inn in israel s o that they were getting those stories of these transformative moments that were happening for both the kid’s on the trips themselves, and for the and for the trip leaders on all of these different perspectives, right of all these different characters in the story, and as part of that it’s also there’s also an element of just reporting back on this is how we use that story. And this is the reach that that it had and like, thank you, keep it up. And so what happened after we worked with hillel international on that is made a few internal alignment shifts got them to kind of rejigger their messaging. So it felt a little less stock photo and a little less advertising on more story oriented. And they increased their recruitment for the trip by forty percent in a year. Outstanding. Alright, what what? What are some of the questions you got in? Uh, in this in this work in the workshop? Yeah, a lot about pushback from leadership. I’m interested in what was amazing in the feedback you got from non-profits oh, yeah, yeah, there’s in the audience yeah, i mean, we got we got some great little anecdotes of just like those tiny little shifts that people can start making in in order to start building this this more aligned human centric with the culture and some of them some of them are technological fixes, their great organizations out there that are using slack channels capture stories and to share back the impact of the work that they’re doing and the importance of everybody kind of being on the same page around storytelling and digital communications and all of that, which is wuebben so deeply through all aspects of our organization that it actually becomes this really great vehicle for tying everybody together. You said there were some leadership leadership pushback, yeah, so one of the, uh, some of the big questions were just like, well, what if leadership doesn’t? Buy-in, um, what do we do if i if i asked to sit in if i’m the marketing person and i asked to sit in on the development meeting and i’m ruffling somebody’s feathers because i’m on their turf? Then what do? I do about that. And our advice was really well, first of all, don’t make it about busting silos, that’s, that’s not an end in itself. There’s there’s, some other bigger mission and story to be told here on dh. Secondly, start from that point of strength. Start by asking their advice. No. And going there and and, you know, kind of making their idea if you can. But but going in with a with a sort of ah listening, learning, pasture, a supposed toe. I’m going to do this thing and knock down these walls and so it’s a little bit more of that appreciative stance. And starting again from the assumption that everybody has something to offer, everybody has a story to tell. Start with what you have exactly. Okay, start from strength and build from there. We still have another couple minutes left. It got very quiet. You notice there’s? No. Yeah, but in the din of the exhibit, flora’s has been eliminated. Not just gone. Not just quiet. Are quiet. Indeed. What else can we say about this? Er there’s. A couple more minutes. What more did you share in your your session? Yeah, i mean we shared a so there was the buses silas session. We also did michael hoffmann, founder of three, say, three communications and stroll before yeah, exactly s o he and i also let a session that we entitled digital minimalism, which is a which is a related kind of emerging idea that we have open that we’ve been playing with, which is really about this idea that s o thie middle melisa movement has sort of taken hold it’s gotten a foothold in the culture. People are excited about the idea of cleaning their closets and, you know, focusing in on the stuff that really matters and what does it look like? Applied to digital specifically for non-profits? And so what we talked about there was that you may associate minimalism with this idea of less stuff and that’s that’s important that’s definitely part of it, but really, the focus of the minimalist philosophy is that the stuff that you do have should be meaningful and should should be a connection to something t joy into purpose and all of this kind of stuff rather than getting in the way. Mission exactly, exactly commission for sure so is so four. Non-profits in the digital space thie equivalents, the digital minimalism is essentially this idea that, you know, the digital that we use should should thin the line between our supporters and the potential for them to make impact through our organization. There’s a lot of digital detritus out there where there’s a lot of sort of shouting about the stuff that we do and there’s a lot of things that we create just because that’s what? We’ve always weighed it, we need it. Yeah, and all this stuff. Yeah, okay, so did you get pushed back at that session to neo-sage from leaders or people questioning whether my leadership is goingto really be willing to shed? I mean, it could be you could be talking about zoho you’re shitting me, big parts of our communication, it’s challenging panels. Oh, for sure for sure it’s not serving, serving our greater need are serving our our mission. Yeah, it forces you to check a lot of assumptions and i think there’s there’s plenty. I mean, absolutely that there’s there’s plenty of organizations that are, for instance, you know, creating a dozen pdf reports that then go online because it’s written into the grants that they have to create a report and put it online. And so what do you do about that? Like theirs? That’s, that’s. A place where you have to kind of reevaluate whether this this philosophy is going to work in every area, or whether it’s just going to be something that focuses you in the places where it’s most plausible. Okay, uh, give us another two minutes of of the brousseau download. No man. Little community session. Maybe other questions that were asked. Yeah, well, i think a lot of the i would i would almost summarize both sessions. You’re going to get the total download and like a sentence hold right. I would almost summarized both sons both sessions as being about this idea of it’s. Not what you do, it’s. What? What you do does. Okay, it’s, not it’s. Not about what? What it’s impacted exactly. It’s it. And they end that. That idea that you know, non-profits do amazing things. We deliver great programs. There are there’s, there’s, webinars and services and meals being serves, an animal’s being saved and all of that. But really, the and we want to talk about all that. Great. Stuff, right? And put it out in the world and say, like, look, please pay attention to you know, we’re living this attention economy, but when we, when we take a step back and talk about not what we do but what we make possible and what’s through our actions were allowing to happen that transformation, then first of all, like it’s got that more sort of visionary feel to it, it’s, more it’s, more welcoming and approachable. I can relate to it because it’s not like this thing that may or may not have something to do with me, it’s not sort of it doesn’t become a barrier at all, and it keeps us sort of keeps us mission focused like that’s what we’re that’s what we’re here for, and it keeps us kind of owning that those outcomes and realizing that, like with all of this stuff that we’re doing it’s not about the thing it’s, about what we make possible through that thing. And if that’s the message that we can keep coming back to you through the stories that we tell and the content that we creates and the people that we can actually, then there’s hope there is. We’ll leave it there and that’s a perfect place to leave it. Thank you very much. Mirriam. Awesome pleasure durney persevering through the we’re closing. She mirriam brousseau and she’s chief information officer chief innovation officer. I’m sorry, mate. No, you’re right, it’s. Just a innovation. What i say information. I’m a fan of that too. She’s mirriam brousseau and she’s, the chief innovation officer at sea three communications this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits and you are with twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur, thanks so much. Let’s. Take a break. Wagner cpas check them out at weinger cps dot com if you’re on a fiscal year, it may be coming to a close on the thirtieth of this month. You need an audit or just your nine ninety regular is it? Take a look at their sight, then use the contact form or pick up the phone and talk to partner eat each tomb i’m urging you go in real life after you check him out online. Wagner, cps dot com now let’s, go to test quest welcome to tony martignetti non-profit. Radio coverage of eighteen ntc that’s the non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen in new orleans this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guest now are nick garcia and jack ilsen nick is senior account executive at mall warwick donordigital and jack ilsen is exactly the same senior account executive male warwick donordigital times two on dh nick and jack’s topic is the test quest optimizing your donor’s journey. Gentlemen, welcome to non-profit radio. Thank you. Thanks. Good. Have you, uh, okay, the donor journey let’s start with you, jack. What are what are donors not getting? I mean, i’m sorry. What are non-profits not getting quite right about this donordigital the experience. Yeah, well, you know, oftentimes when you’re in the poor poppet for-profit space ah, you’re thinking a lot about user experience, right? And where someone’s going to go, what they’re going to click on what they’re going to see, you know, and a lot of non-profits don’t have the time or think that they don’t have the time to capacity to really think through every little piece, so they’ll be not taking precautions or doing tests. And just rolling out what feels right to them. And so we kind of talk about how easy it can be and how simple it khun b to perform a p tests and rolled them out in your program in different ways. So we try to make it as easy as possible for as many different types of non-profits it’s possible. Okay, okay, so this s o jack, this does not have to say i’m sorry, nick. This does not have to be a complicated process, right? Exactly. Be testing is pretty simple thing. Exactly. Yeah, it is. And there are a number of ways that you can start, you know, very low level that doesn’t require a complex data management or anything like that. So i think we’re going to kind of run the full gamut of, you know, examples and things like that testing for for organizations that are just starting out, but also cem advanced testing concepts we really tried teo dig deep and and figure out some unique ideas of things that folks may not be thinking to test that we’ve seen in our work with our clients have some big impacts. Okay, well, we’re gonna do that here too. I don’t want you holding back on like we’re gonna describe what you’re gonna do talk about in your seminar. Sure you’re gonna do it here. I’ll do it. So you’re going. You were talking about the email landing page and digital ad testing. Yeah, let’s. Start with e mail. Is it one of you mohr expert in email than the other or equally fluent? I would say equally fluid. Okay, well, let’s, stick with you, nicholas. We’re there for now. Uh, what? What? Wait, what should we be testing? Yeah. What? I think when we think about email testing, we generally split that out into the email envelope the content of the e mail, which includes the copy, the design and then what’s the email envelope. So the email envelope is the centre name s oh, it’s, basically, what you see about the email before you open and a preview exactly when you’re so there’s the preview? Yes. So that includes the sender name. So you know, one example of ah really simple entry level test is whether you include the organization name in the from line of your email. You know, conventional wisdom tells you that, you know, you may want to include the organization names so that people know immediately who they’re hearing from. However, for a lot of our clients, we’ve tested out of that, and we are rolling out with just the ceo name because we show that that has had a significant lift in open rates, for whatever reason. So that’s that’s a really simple test. Another thing related to the way we exhaust everything that’s in the envelope. What’s on the envelope. Yes. So they’re sure we hit every. Yeah. Yeah. So what detail here? Yeah, absolutely. Do not hold out on us. So there’s the center name there’s the subject line, which is another important one bonem constantly testing that one another one. Is that that preview to pre header? Yes. Head of pre header. Yes. Oh, one of one of our recommended tests there is that we’ve been seeing a big lift with folks who are actually including a blank preh header. So if you notice when you’re when you’re scrolling through your inbox, you know, almost every e mail you received has pre header text. Those that do not now are standing out more. So so. We’re seeing, you know, just little that white space may exactly right. So and things like emojis and the subject line just, you know, things that really make the email envelope pop out. Nine box. Jack, do we assume that people are scrolling through this inbox on their phones? Now is most female is read by phone? Absolutely. You know, i think it’s been depending on the organization, you could estimate anywhere from thirty toe. Fifty percent of your donations could come in through mobile. So it’s, really important to not only be looked thinking about maybe your email envelope and how that appears on mobile, especially as you’re scrolling through very quickly, but also making sure that everything is mobile optimized and works well for for those folks who are looking at their phones. Ok? Eso we exhausted the envelope. Yeah, let’s. Stick with you, jack. Go inside the envelope now to the message itself. What should we be testing in that? What can we test in? Oh, so many things. Well, and we talk a little bit about a few different things, so we will go from maybe email format. Tio general design tests. Template tests that sort. Of thing copy tests weighs a email format. What what? Different formats? I’m sure i know, but i can’t think of them sure and sing them, but i was sure, yeah, and it may be going from plain text message tio ah, regular template that you might use every day kind of thing to see, and maybe the results of your tests between those two things is that you don’t get a significant lift for one over the other grand, and that may tell you that you don’t want to use plain text or it may tell you that you want to use it interchangeably at different times when it seems effective. So ok, i guess use of use of graphics embedded video do we? What do we know about how embedded video does in a female vs there’s a link to click through? Wei have research on that? Well, it depends on what you’re trying to get. If you want someone to donate video doesn’t help all that much. Of course it may influence click through, but it it probably won’t up your response rate very much it may actually, you may see a decline as faras response rate. Because people are just trying to go to your donation page to view that video and then immediately going okay, okay. It’s. Great for cultivation, though. Great. Very getting folks too. Bedded video abetted video. We’re talking about video eyes great for cultivation. I’m sorry. Yes. Yeah. Video is great. Okay. Okay. I was just trying to draw a distinction between embedded where you do. We have to do what you can watch video in an e mail. Can you? Yeah. You have it. Yes. It’s possible. Although there’s specific types of coding more more complex five and that’s. What made it? So i made him work. So if you get into technology issues with right versus just providing a link and it doesn’t work across all browser’s. Okay. Okay. That’s. Hesitation. All right. So you gotta be very circumspect about that. You’re not okay. All right. Uh, what else? What else in the message hyre in the inside the message itself. Jacket should be so, so designed. Tests generally, it may be, you know, like we had talked about overall template. But it may be something as simple as maybe black and white photos. More stark kind of imagery. Sad versus happy, that sort of thing that, you know, many children let’s, say your international relief organization. And and you have lots of folks of single children alone or lots of children. Together. I’m trying to see what’s more effective. If focusing in on one individual is going toe, actually pull at the heartstrings of your owners. Anything else in the e mail cell for we we met our way to the landing page? Um, i think a couple other things that we’ve seen valuable in-kind email testing is just the length of the copy itself. I think this is this is an area where a lot of organizations hesitates sometimes because they have been messaging with a similar length for a long time, and they meet they may feel hesitant to move away from that, but i think it’s important, especially were scared. Exactly. Yeah, on and it’s not an easy thing to test necessarily, you know, taking the same messaging and boiling it down from, you know, six long paragraphs to a really, you know, small bite-sized email is not an easy task. However, you know, i think it’s an important one, because especially in today’s environment and just the way people are used to processing information now is in much smaller chunks, right? So we’ve been seen, you know, a good degree of lifts with just, you know, testing short message versus long message, you know, just things like that about the time of day. Yeah, exactly. Right. Eso there’s yeah. Time of day. Day of week. You know, some some of our clients, are you there even segmenting out, you know, certain folks that are more responsive to messages at different dates and times, things like that. So, you know, they’re they’re so many, you know, complex options for testing and segmentation. Ok, ok. Are we on the landing page now, cheryl? Goodwill that okay? Okay. We’ll stick with you for a minute. Okay? What should we start there? Yeah. So, i mean, we talked about video for a moment. You know, that was one test that we ran on a landing page where, you know, one of our clients felt like they had a really captivating video that had a donation ascot the end, and they thought it would be much more compelling. And this this was at a time when, you know, video was really hot and a lot of non-profits were using that to dr engagement, so they thought, okay? Let’s test video versus a static image on a donation page and it actually suppressed response video did significantly on the donation page, you know? So i guess what the lesson there was that you know, you don’t want to necessarily distract the destruction was in my mind exactly. I mean, the weather is so video rich now visual in rich video, especially, but, you know, people go there for a single purpose. You don’t want them distracted. Exactly. And i think i think that that guy has a lot of our thinking around. Landing page optimization to is that you know you’re you’re breaking up the information on the page into a very concise headline. A very concise subhead. You have to keep in mind that most people are not going to absorb all of the content all the copy on any given page. So you want to, you know, really think about how to structure the page so that all the information is there for folks who want to absorb it all. But also that at a glance, they’re getting what they want so that they can, you know, move on and convert. Okay, okay. Um, jack, anything else about the landing page we should talk about? Yeah, i mean, more toe next point. And you brought up a good point as well. Tony, that, uh, and perfect host shot out. People are on their phones often doing these sorts of things. So making something inaccessible in that way, not just design wise. I i say this all the time and maybe it’s just being in the industry. But if i go on a web page and it is not mobile optimized, i will just leave. And so you you absolutely have to make sure that sort of frustrating. Now twenty eighteen, you have to scroll the sea, though, to see so much and it and it jumps and bounces and windows are not windows, but pictures disappear. Yeah, yeah. Don’t do it, please. Yeah, well, in in one test that that i’ve done with a few clients is adding tap oppcoll buttons to donation pages or action pages. So let’s say you go and there’s a tiny radio button and you have to zoom into the page to try to click it. And you’re clicking the wrong thing and it brings you to another page. So we tested somewhere else. Yeah, exactly. We call them fat finger buttons at some points to make sure that, you know it’s. Easier for folks to decide. I want to give you twenty five dollars instead of ten dollars, you know? Okay. All right. So that’s the landing page? Yeah. You were going to talk about digital ads, okay, testing digital ads. We’re nick. Where were all these digital ads? What kinds of retesting we’re talking social media ads. So facebook ads? Definitely. I would say that’s, where we start with most of our clients and definitely the google network is probably the thie biggest platform that we use for digital advertising. Okay, got to take a break. Tell us you’ve heard the talis moughniyah lll from lee elementary school, where they’re getting a monthly donation from tello’s for credit card processing of a parent owned company. You know you need more revenue. It can be recurring revenue every single month. Ask the people close to your organization who owned businesses to switch to tell us for their credit card processing. It started at tony dahna slash tony, tell us for the video now back to test quest with nick garcia and jack ilsen how do we tell testing with digital ads? They’re really two components, right? So you have the creative and you have the copy associated with an ad, so in most cases, we’re testing multiple versions of both. The image and the copy at a given time on and then essentially combining the two once you have a winner in each category to roll out the absolute best image and the absolute best copy you can to the widest audience, i think that’s the simplified version of okay, well, we can we can go into more detail, but what, you don’t hold out? What what percentage of your audience would you would you test with? I mean, you gotta have against tens of thousands of fans on your page to make this worthwhile. Yeah, well, i mean, we’re no, not fans know, but you’re mean, depending on the dollar amount, right in-kind so yeah. So when we talk about percentages for testing, we usually start with the budget number composed to the audience. Yeah. So for instance, you know, if it’s the first foray into testing and we’re looking at a budget of ten thousand dollars, then i would say, you know, dedicating at least three thousand of that to the initial testing before the final roll out would be, you know, a decent amount, you know? So you wantto probably dedicate in the neighborhood of twenty five. To thirty five percent of your budget to that initial testing. Otherwise, everybody only a thousand duvette appropriate, right? Exactly. So you want you want you want it to be scaleable, right? Okay, how about let’s? Go back to my erroneous question, but i’ll find somewhere it fits and let’s, go back to email a percentage of your email lists would you test with before you roll out the ultimate to the white fulwider story in when we actually have a tool for this on dh. This will work with ads as well. But we have a fruit free tour online on a website. The bell warwick it’s m double d agency. Dot com slash lab w d agency dot com slash lab. Okay, crack receding. Yeah, and there’s there’s a bunch of different tools on there, but one of them is a sample size calculator. So you can and put the numbers of folks that you have to test from it. And i’ll let you know if if it’s how difficult it might be to get a statistically significant result from that kind of test. Okay. Okay. Can we generalize? Tow? How big an audience. How big a list? You need teo be ableto do successful test. I mean, is a thousand enough? Or is a thousand to small? Well, it depends on what you’re testing. And we thought you could just go to the tool. All right, i put you on the spot. I thought maybe they were generalization, but just if it were not a drastic test, then it may take a long time t get that kind of a result. Also latto the toll just use. Yeah. Don’t pay attention of the host question. Okay, so now we’ve got all this data from our email. You know, the envelope, the message itself landing page our ads. What do we do with all this? All this data in each segment, it’s, not just a simple has male the best one or you know what we do with it. All right? Yeah. That’s a that’s. A great question. And you know, we give a few examples that aren’t as simple as okay. Here’s the winner. So we roll out with that all the time, right? For example, we ran a test. That was an email designed test. So we had a very pared down text on ly no. Images designed template for an email versus the kind of standard template where you have the call to action, photo, etcetera and the results there were actually inconclusive, which in most cases is a worthless test. However, to take away their for us is that we can use both of these templates interchangeably, right? So, you know, since one of them is not impacting negatively or positively the performance that gives us two options to choose from s o that depending on the message, if we have a very compelling image, then we use that template if it is more of a text heavy message or, you know, just something where we want to mix up design versus no design that gives us options so it’s important, teo, you know, be able to assess your your test results to and figure out, you know, how to use that effectively, okay, i think i think, yeah, they’re different circumstances for every organization, which is something that we kind of tried toe andi and people say that a lot, but we try to use a lot of different examples in our presentation toe to showcase the different ways that these things and go and really, what what we’re trying to teach is the thought process, right? Like, how can i use this to my advantage? What can i do with these results? Do we need to test again? Where can i go from here kind of thing. So maybe you test using the colors black and red against using blue and white, and you’re finding that black and red is is a statistically significant lift for you for click through rates. For instance, maybe you just want to rule that out during your end when you really care about getting those dollars in and hitting your goals because if you’re using black and red constantly, people are going to get tired of it. It’s not going to be effective, you lose, you lose that lift. Okay, okay. Your description. Talk about unconventional unconventional but practical testing idea. These the ones we’re talking about this is these don’t sound unconventional today. My wrong are they may be they are unconventional. Yeah, no, i think you know, we try to provide ah list like a take take home list essentially at the end of our presentation of of things that we’ve come up with that we didn’t necessarily that aren’t considered conventional in the world of test. Yeah, start talking about okay, pick us off. All right, so in terms of ah, email, copy testing, one thing that we found have a significant lift is highlighting the call to action in an email with, like the simple yellow formatting, like what you’re used to in microsoft word, right? Because it automatically draws the attention people are, you know, programs for lack of a better term to to automatically go to that, right? So we’ve seen big lifts there similar similar thing is ah, increasing the font size of your call to action in an email things like that really simple, something simple like that? Yeah, just really, really simple things. Another one where we saw, you know, like over a thirty percent lift in our email response rate is changing the color of the button, you know, just things like that button formatting, another one that we’ve been doing a lot, ok, last one because i want to see some projected yeah, okay, one more is ah, making a dynamic button so you’re on the donation page, you select to donate twenty five dollars. Monthly, the button automatically updates at the bottom of the page to say, give twenty five dollars monthly or process my twenty five dollars monthly gift. We’re seeing much hyre response rates with with dynamic button testing like that is that when you mouse over, it actually changes automatically when you selected on the page. So the button goes from saying donate or something generic to to the customized amount so it’s kind of confirmation for the donor within the process that they are giving exactly at the level that they want teo and what’s, the difference you’re seeing with that we’re seeing we’re seeing significant lift on that. I think the last time we ran over one of my clients, it was ah, fifteen percent hyre completion rate. Oh, so some people, after they click the donate button some people don’t complete. Exactly. Okay. That’s what? I was missing? Yep. I thought some people back out after clicking. Well, it wouldn’t be. It would be after they select the gift amount. Right. So you come to the page and when you start filling out the field information, there is a gradual drop off in there in the completion people. Having second thoughts as they’re filling in their credit card number and their address, and write some people back out at that point, yeah, so whatever it is, it, it helps. It helps the process along. Okay, write that that changing of the button. Yeah, after it’s, click exactly it’s and confirms the donation amount. Yep, okay, jack, you got some. Yeah. Ah, similar kind of dynamic aspect is bringing in. Ask amounts from an email tio the donation page so let’s, say, or maybe even heis previous contribution, right, you have that information on file, maybe it’s listen, you’re sierra, you have it dynamically pull in from that person’s record onto the donation page, so that may be it selects immediately their highest previous contribution say that’s twenty five dollars, and then uses an algorithm tio go from there and calculate other likely of amounts that they would get if the ask string is the track. Ok, ok, alright, so thats awesome, okay, you got another one? Sure. So, like clicking kapin offgrid click candy for radio when we’ve done that similar on donation and advocacy pages is and and also also an email actually testing the call to action on language on buttons. So if you could use a more generic donate now or match my gift or something that you might use across your program generally, or we’ve tested that against more mission based colston actions. So, you know, help animals right away or, you know, stop trump or something like that that that actually has increased not on ly conversions on pages, but also click through is on e mails. Okay, okay, we just have about a minute or so left. So, nick, i’m going to give you the wrap up. Just remind us of the motivation. I mean, there’s so much we contest what remind us of the value of doing all this, i think the value for the donor for the dogs, the donor journey don’t write mirriam yeah, i think, you know, it provides it, provides them with a personalized path. Right? So it makes them feel like what they’ve done in the past eyes being acknowledged and that things are as easy as possible for them. And ultimately, you know, they’re here to support the cause is and we want teo enable them to do that in whichever channel they choose. Andi, we want to be able to show them their impact as quickly as possible and in his many ways as we can. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you. Alright. Thank you. There are nick garcia, jack ilsen. And they are both senior account executives at mall warwick donordigital, thanks very much. All right. Thank you. My pleasure. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen. Ntc on this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with us. Next week, trust me. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Weather cps dot com and tell us. Credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dot, m a slash tony tell us our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is vices and chavez on our music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Nothing. You could. Hello, this is bruce chamlong, host of the web design and technology coach. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 8, 2017: Video Storytelling & Deep Pockets

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Yasmin Nguyen & Sheri Chaney Jones: Video Storytelling

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In a crowded video internet, how do you tell that compelling story so your message moves others to take action? Sharing their smart strategies are Yasmin Nguyen from VibranceGlobal, and Sheri Chaney Jones, with Measurement Resources. (Originally aired September 4, 2015.)

 

 

Maria Semple: Deep Pockets

Maria SempleHow do you find pockets of wealth in the communities you serve? Maria Semple reveals her secrets. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder. (Originally aired March 28, 2014.)

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of pancreas ola thigh assis if you hardened me with the idea that you missed today’s show video storytelling in a crowded video internet, how do you tell that compelling story? So your message moves others to take action. Sharing their smart strategies are yasmin win from vibranceglobal and sherry cheney jones with measurement resource is that originally aired september fourth, twenty fifteen and deep pockets. How do you find pockets of wealth in the communities you serve? Maria simple reveals her secrets. She’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder that originally aired march twenty eighth, twenty fourteen on tony’s take two five minute planned giving marketing. We’re sponsored by wagner, cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apple owes accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com is them. We be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com here are yasmin win and sherry cheney jones with video storytelling welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fifteen the non-profit technology conference we’re at the austin convention center austin, texas we’re kicking off our coverage with this interview. Are my guests now? Are jasmine win and sherry cheney jones welcome. Thank you. Thank you, it’s. Good to be here. They’re seminar topic is stop shooting videos. Start unlocking stories. Jasmine win is founder and ceo of vibranceglobal and sherry cheney jones is president of measurement resource is let’s start sherry, what are non-profits not doing quite a cz? Well as they could with video interviews, storytelling? What? From my perspective, because we help non-profits measure and communicate their impact in value, they often are focusing on their impact. So how are they changing lives and changing circumstances there, too focused on the activities. So, really understanding what your true impact is and telling your stories from there. And you’re trying to elicit really heartfelt story telling stories. You know, emotional. We want emotional impact. Okay, what would you have you have? You know, i think that a lot of times we focus so much on the technology, the process of doing video and also the questions. That we ask people, and so we don’t focus enough on the connection and really, when you are able to provide a space for someone too open up to feel that they can speak about their passion, be grateful. They then create that connection that we can then capture and witness through videos and so it’s that focus on that connection rather than just the information or that exchange. Now, as we are today, you’re asking people to get in front of lights and cameras or and mike’s andi, open up. Yes, men. How are we gonna start this process first? Let’s, start with how do we find the right people? And then we’ll get into coaching them and and getting their best performance and storytelling out of them. But how do we find the right one? Yeah, absolute. Tony that the key thing is selecting the right people. And that starts with being mindful of who your audience is. You know, we found that the most impactful, ah, relevant person to interview talk with are a representation of our audience. So, for example, for appealing to a donor’s, then it be great to have a financial supporter donors to be able to speak in their language in the same mindset for them to connect and relate. So think about the group’s. We want this interview to be meaningful for and select people from that constituency. Right? Volunteers, donors, board members. Yeah. Ok. And someone who’s were well respected. Who’s. Our ticket who’s also a very passionate and a champion of of our particular cause to be able to speak for us but also, at the same time, carry the torch for our audience so that they can connect with them. Sure, anything you want to add to finding the right person is sure. I always say, think about your wise. Why do you do it? You do, but not just why does your organization do what it does? But why does your funders fund you and whitey? You’re participants participate. And when you’re finding people to tell your story, you want to make sure that you are covering those three perspectives. Okay, three wives. The three wise. Yep. Three wise men know e wise? Yes, different wise. Okay, sure. Let’s, say with you now. So we found the right people. How do we start the process of making them? Comfortable evoking the really heartfelt emotion that we’re tryingto chief? Sure. Well, i will actually default to us because he’s really good at that, you know, i’m i’m the one that helps you create the content think about what you should be eliciting and he’s when it does the great interviews, maybe you’re more on the on the production side. I’m more on the defining what what questions? You should be asking what impact you should be drawing down of them stuff like, okay, we’ll come to you very shortly. Okay, okay. We got plenty of time together. Twenty five. Just great. Yeah. You know, for someone to be at ease. You really it’s it’s? Really? About how you think about the interview or how you think about it being on video? A lot of times, people focus on the act of, you know, being on camera so they feel like they’re being evaluated. They’re being judged or in an interview, maybe you think of, like, a job interview or or some others where they have to perform, and they have to be perfect. And what that does is it raises this level of anxiety where you have tio feel. Like you have to know not necessarily be your best to be your most authentic. Authentic. Yeah, you’re you’re going to be your best if you’re most if you you’re most attentive, you just you write, which is hard to get and even on even in still right videos, pictures it really is okay, yeah, how are we gonna do so down? So so part of that is in the initial invitation is instead of hey, can you do a testimonial keen? And you come on camera and do a video it’s about framing it in a way that helps them give instead of being put in a position to perform. And so what i mean by giving is, you know, i’d like to invite you to come and share your story so that we can help inspire others like you. You know, we we want to put you in a place where you can be of service to others, and when you’re in that mindset of being of service, to be able to share your experience and insight so that it can help others, it takes that pressure off because now it’s about your own story, your own experience. And there’s no right or wrong. And so that that’s the first step is the mind set piece. Okay, so let’s try to avoid characterizing it as testimonial. Do you know, do something that way? Put a label on right or even an interview? It should be more of a conversation, and i find that mom i doing so far, you’re doing great. My failing is a failing grade know you’re at least a b plus or something. You’re doing great. You’ve done this a few times. I have a lot of securities right already. Absolutely cool. Yeah, s so tell me more. So so so that’s the first step is setting up the frame for for what? That experience is like giving them information so that they feel prepared, you know, even some questions not necessarily for them to prepare a script, but for them to at least be a tease to know what to expect, that there’s not going to be this sort of curveball, or they’re gonna be blindsided because people have a lot of anxiety around, you know the uncertainty. And so that that’s another element. And then once you actually get into the session, then then it’s really about creating that space? I go through a specific routine if i find that someone’s either really nervous or they’re very tense, where we do an exercise called a ci gong, slap on what that is is where you basically take your hand and one hand and you slap thea part of your front part of your arm all the way back to up to your chest, and then you do on the other side and then down to your legs and then back up through your back and then on your head as well. You do that a couple times having how hard you’re slapping, just just so just like just like this. So you’re going back like this and and and then down to your chest and then back-up and what you’re doing is you’re activating the various different meridian parties and your body, your head too as well, too. And then once you do that a couple times, you’ll notice this sort of tingle. It just activates the energy and yourself and so that’s physically gets you ready. Another gong xi gong slap? Yeah, yeah, you can google that nok will be on youtube. The other parties is also getting you into what we call the vortex or the zone or, you know, the peak performance state and so, you know, i listen to some music, so whatever music kind of gets you going here, the whole goal is to are we asking the person i interrupt all the time, you know, that’s bad that’s, bad technique, a weapon? You don’t have a conversation, really? So we’re asking the person in advance what’s your kind of music or bring bring some of your favorite music, you can bring some of that, but even before the actual interview, i will take time to have a phone conversation, just tow learn about that, okay, build that report so it’s not. We’re not meeting for the first time on camera and, uh, and that way, we feel like we’re friends and i can ask them about different things, so the whole goal is to get them out of their head and into their hearts, because when they start speaking from the heart when they start opening up that’s when the magic happens outstanding. All right, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna surely now let’s, come to you with questions. Um, well, jasmine alluded to a little bit, but the types of questions where you’re aware your expertise comes in. It’s sure, in terms of thinking about what? Why are you doing this video? I’m sorry i called you jasmine jasmine? Pardon me? Sorry about that. Yes, you have been eluded. So what’s the purpose of the video you’re shooting. Who is your audience? What do they care about? And what we know about is although fund-raising is up from where it was pretty great recession levels, people want to know that there their money is actually making a difference. So no longer can we just say, oh, here’s a cute kid, i’m going to tell you my story about, you know, my family people really want to know that there’s a collective impact going on that there’s, you know, in the measurement world, the outcomes that you’re achieving. So you want to think about what are those outcomes that you know that people want you two to be showing and then making sure your interview questions air addressing those so people are telling their stories around how they experience the outcomes that you are saying that you’re achieving how they’re experiencing a perfect and we’re going to get really kind of personal, right? Like how i saved your life improved your life, help your child, etcetera. Yeah. So, you know, we have a list of twelve outcomes that typically non-profits air achieving like increased knowledge increased, gilles, you know, maintenance of new behavior, reduction of undesirable behavior. So no, those going in before you start asking your questions and let your interview we know that you’re going to want to know about, you know, how did this program increase your knowledge or help you get a job or, you know, decrease your, you know, risk for heart disease or whatever it is that you’re non-profits doing, make sure the questions are aligned with those important outcomes. Should we stay away from giving exact questions? You will be asked one, two, three, four, because i find in doing my show that that then leads to scripted questions, lead to scripted answers and and that’s not from the heart, that’s from appearing, like memorized so so sherry but we want to give them topics, right, but not exact questions. Is that? Is that the best practice or what? Either, either, yeah. I found that i could give them some questions and with a disclaimer that, you know, these are some of the similar types of questions that will be asking and then also explain to them how to prepare. So just think about some bullet points or just some stories that may be relevant but not necessarily prepare a script per se as well to so that that it alleviates the anxiety, but you’re also making sure that they don’t have a prepared answer. Percent yeah, yeah, like i said, then that’s not that’s, not the impact you’re gonna want, all right, anything else, before we get to the actual either of you need anything else before we get to the actual session with mike’s and lights and cameras that we should be thinking about? We didn’t talk about yet, you know, i think that’s that’s pretty much covers it for now we’re going to go and dive a little bit deeper into our session, then during that time. Yeah. Oh, well, i mean, there’s stuff you’re going to say in this session, you you won’t say here is that well, actually, you know, know what? We’ve got someone holding back. Of course not. Your size is okay. Okay. All right. I want shortchange non-profit ready. You know, of course, that all right. All right. So now we’re in the session, so presumably we’re in some kind of studio. These got a microphone because it might just we could just be doing audio, right? Possible? Absolutely. But might be lights and camera also who’s best toe ask, what do we do when we’re in the studio? Now? I could i could do that. Okay, yeah, you know, it’s again, it’s first getting them into that state it’s a two part process getting them into that place where they’re not thinking from their minus their speaking for the heart, then the next step, then it’s it’s like a dance. Then you’re the lead. And so through your mindful questions that you’ve designed, you’ve created both to communicate impact illicit to bring it out from them, per se. You’re also thinking about what is the overarching storyline that you’re trying to create. So one of the things that well, that we’re going to discuss in our session is the frame where for an appeals type of video, you know these air the videos that ah, non-profits play at their events to appeal to, you know, fundraisers and donors. And so there’s a seven start, seven step formula that i generally recommend to my clients as a guide for creating questions to elicit out those components. So the first part is, is that emotional hook or that connection? Something, whether it be a piece of data, something that’s compelling, or a story that just gets people that initially engaged. So they want to continue to watch the next step, then is ah gratitude appreciating the people that are there the people that have already supported you recognizing them so then they personally feel connected. Engaged. The third part then is impact showing the difference that that their support up until this point has made to show that you have traction, and that your stewards of their support this far. Then the next step is really diving into the importance of the purpose of the mission. Why are we all here? Why is it important to support us then? The next step is to is to paint a picture of what the future can be. So this is where we are. But this is how much we can this is how many more people we can serve. This is the greater impact that we can do. And then then goes the call to action, which is this is how you can help. This is how you can be a part of us achieving this bigger future. And the final part is that emotional clothes wrapping it up, tying it back to either the mission or or completing the circle of this story that leaves them with this emotional connection. But now they’ve see why why we’re doing this. They also know how they can be a part of it and that’s the framework in which we start to create questions that we start to elicit out in each of the different interviews. Sherry, this is a real art because that’s a lot to pack into what’s probably gonna be, you know, like a ford of five minute video or so bad. It’s doable, of course. Yeah, yeah. And i mean, in the session, we’re going toe share case study where one organization was ableto talk about their recreational programme with kids, but at the end of the day, they were able to demonstrate how they had a fifty seven thousand seven hundred seventy percent return on investment in those chilled children in terms of really transforming their earning potential over their lives. Just buy this, you know, recreational after school program and talk about and your fund-raising appeal if you’re able teo to share those stories, talk about those kids experience and at the end of the day, say, oh, by the way, give us five hundred dollars, and we’ll turn that into two hundred eighty nine thousand dollars for these children over the course of, you know, their lifetime that’s, very powerful and, you know, checkbooks are flying nah bins what if we’re in our studio session and it’s not going so well? Our interview is not really loosening up very tense you’re not getting the kind of emotion you’re hoping for. What what can we do to you? Break that besides achy gong slap anything else we can do? Like in them in that moment? Loosen him or her up? Yeah, yeah, you know, first of all, i always try with something with physiology. So some physical movement, whether it be breathing or others just to kind of, you know, shake out some of the stiffness there. If that doesn’t work, then i should start to shift into what are they passionate about? We totally go off or off camera off mike now, mike, or even even if the camera’s still on, but i shift their focus on hey, you know what? What do you know? What are you most passionate about? Tell me about your favorite, you know, and start getting really personal, and when they start to then connect with what really means, you know something to them, then it slowly they slowly start to kind of open up in that way. So i found that to be really effective, it might actually be a good idea to keep the camera rolling or the mike rolling because you might capture something really good whether they know it’s being captured or not. They’re there more of these because you’ve broken that i see you looking the tension about okay, let’s, create anything you want, but i was just saying, you know, a lot of it is the magic and editing, so if you know that framework that yasmin laid out and you know, that’s, what you’re going for, your looking for those nuggets that you’re going to put into that framework when you go to create your video and edit it together. And that that’s a really good point. Sherry, is that you know, when you’re looking at the post production editing process, you wanna have someone on your team that understands the story framework here? Not just someone that’s really a great good, you know, an editor or your your brother in law who knows howto video. But someone who understands the purpose understands the story’s understands elements of marketing as well so that they can put those pieces together in a meaningful way. Alright, we have plenty of time together. So you took some now about postproduction. We moved into that suddenly, that was well done. Thank you, baizman. What? What more about postproduction? Aside from let’s not have an amateur doing it. What else? What else can we say? You know, post production actually starts with preproduction. Always found that it’s very, very important to know the roadmap rather than shooting a bunch of content audio or visual and then just dumping it on to someone and saying here, figure it out so it’s it’s it’s essential to be involved throughout the process s so that’s, really, the key part here and then the other part is, is to understand buy-in to have someone who really understands the dynamics of human conversation per se, you know, there’s certain ways in which people speak that are more flattering than others. And so it’s it’s a very subtle nuance of how to cut the foot the pieces and then start assembled them together and then tie in either music or other elements that enhance that experience, whether it be visuals or other things as well to it sounds like you’re strongly suggesting that this be done by a professional. Yes, absolutely on dh they be involved from the beginning? Not just that you’ve given them a raw video file, and now they have to try, too. Kraft, what you’re describing? Great. Yeah, yeah, i think specially for your your fund-raising appeal videos and maybe the things on your website you’re going to ask people to donate to your cause. But i think for and you can correct me if you disagree, but for your maybe website testimonials or other things, you know, in our session, yasmin’s going to actually do one. On his iphone so just depends on what the purpose again understanding what is the purpose of the video? Your beauty that’s an excellent point. Yeah, i mean, we were we were talking last several minutes about the least, i think the the video that shone at the gala that ideally is evoking tears and and moving a room of seven hundred people or, you know, whatever, but on the other end of the spectrum share your point is really well taken. This could be very low production value with somebody with an iphone on dh can still be very, very moving. Yeah, absolutely doesn’t the production values don’t have to be high to be compelling? Yes. Depends what your purpose is. Yeah, and and and again, it’s, just starting with understanding, understanding your purpose, understanding your audience, understanding your call to action on and then finding the right medium for that. Um, i’m still going. Yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s really about having a storytelling mindset, it’s about having a mindset of thinking about what? What are we doing right now? And is who is this meaningful for? And then let’s just capture that moment, especially with technology these days. With, you know, our smartphones or iphones or android phones, you know, the cameras and the equipment is so advanced and it’s, i mean, you could capture a great experience bar trying to do it in the dark, but, i mean, if you think about wow, if i’m constantly thinking about how can i share this moment with someone else and who would benefit and why they would benefit, then then you’re you’re ready to go and as far as, like professional editing, you know, quite honestly, people can edit themselves, but really, i find that, like ninety plus percent of the clients and people i work with it’s a tedious process and that’s something that if they can learn how to improve the quality of capturing the experience that they can handed off to someone else, even if it’s simple edits it’s accessible and affordable for just even the average person who’s just doing a video for their they’re easing or something like that by phone has been picked up his phone as he was talking for those who are not watching the video as a visual. So i mean, it’s just it could be just that simple. Sure. You look like you want to add something. No, i’m just a green. Okay, oppcoll we still have another couple of minutes left together. What if i not ask you that? What have we not talked about? It doesn’t matter what stage of it is, what more would you like to say? It’s a great topic, i think. Just a kind of reiterate it’s about thinking about this experience, the interview or the video really as an opportunity for for you to help someone else give and and the way that they give is through their insights and experience. So we appreciate the opportunity to be here with you, tony, to be able to share and so it’s a it’s, a conversation and it’s an opportunity to give, and i think that really, when you start thinking of it this way, it alleviates a lot of stress and anxiety around the experience. Yeah, i’d love to leave loved leave it there, but we still have a couple minutes left, so i’m gonna press it’ll further on something i was thinking about when you’re recording. Do we do we need tohave an interviewer? Or should we just let the person kind? Of go free form and on dh hit on the topic questions hoping that they’ll do that or we need to have an interviewer. I i think yes, i think so. And unless the person is experience and very skilled with being able to create a connection themselves with either the camera, they’ve they’ve had either training or they could do it naturally. But i would say that the majority of the people are looking to have an interview because the goal is to experience a moment of connection. And how can you experience a connection without having some other person person? Lester trained to connect? Yeah, yes, directly to account. And so to answer your question, yes. Ah, it’s important to have at least someone there to connect with. Okay, yeah, sure, because i think it’s not it can be very scripted, and we’re trying to avoid that scripted feel so an interviewer helps reduce that that scripted feel better, more connection, okay? And, ah, there is one story i’d like to share and it’s about giving as well, too, and sherry’s heard this story a number of times because we actually start third i’m speaking together here, but last year, we were at the non-profit technology conference, and both of us were there to writing. So you guys last year, samaritan picked you up last year we missed each other in d c. Yeah, so sure. And i were both staying with our good friends neil and heather. Now new one. Heather had this amazing ten year old daughter named kendall. And every morning when we sit down for breakfast, kendall would just light up the room and she’d ask questions, and she will have about a minute left. Okay. Okay, so, so so anyway, you’re trained, so i know what you know. I’m gonna tell party there’s just to the store here, and i will re kapin the session here. Don’t worry about the way we wanna hear your story. Okay. All right. So so then ah, went the last morning that were there. She just barely looked up from her bowl and i said, hey, what’s going on, you seem different and she said, yeah, i’ve got to go sell girl scout cookies today i said, well, what’s wrong with that. People love cookies she said, yeah, but every time i get out there i get rejected and so i said, yeah, gosh, you know, i totally understand, so i asked her i said, hey, candle, how much of your cookies she said they’re four dollars a box? So i said here, here’s, twenty dollars, once you give me five boxes, she said really has like, yeah, it’s like, but here’s the thing i don’t eat cookies myself and so she but i want you to do what what i want to do is i want you to give these cookies to five people that you’ve never met before. All of a sudden her eyes lit up, she ran to her mom and said, mom, guess what? We get to give cookies away then? And i said, now here, kendall here’s, the reason why i want you to give those cookies away cause i want you to know what it’s like to make someone’s day. I want you to see, hear and feel their appreciation, and then when you’re out there and you’re asking someone to ask by a box of cookies, try this instead. Ask them hey, is there someone in your life that you really care about? I’d like to help you make their bay by giving them a box of cookies. So what we’re doing is we’re creating an opportunity for someone to give and so similar to this interview experience when you create an opportunity to give you shift that dynamic, so outstanding, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very, very much. You your favorite cookies with thin mints, by the way about us so good on this. Emotions are number two yasmin win he’s, founder and ceo of vibranceglobal and sherry cheney jones’s, president of measurement resource is non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fifteen the non-profit technology conference, thanks so much for being with us deep pockets with maria semple is coming up first, wagner cpas they do go way beyond the numbers for you. They have got dozens of policy statements for you to download a wireless device policy like no talking or texting while you’re driving for business purposes. Segregation of duties for financial oversight this chart will designate for you who should sign the checks? Who should write the checks? Who posts the accounts receivable? Who approves the payroll? It tells you who to assign each of these task too, and a bunch of other tasks. There’s a whistleblower policy, a conflict of interest policy, a travel policy, dozens of policies too many for me to name them all, go to wagner cps dot com creek resource is then guides stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books you aren’t a business you’re non-profit appaloosa counting is designed for non-profits built from the ground up to make your financial management simple and affordable. It’s fun to counting, advanced reporting, donation tracking and more it’s all in one easy to use software they’re at non-profit wizard dot com check that out now. Time for tony take two i cut down my five minute plan giving marketing tips to a video that’s about three minutes long took it all down twenty five to three did the phone segment on the august eighteenth show? If you want a quick refresher video, you can have the takeaways in a three minute video. Plus, of course, there’s a link to the full facebook live video it’s at tony martignetti dot com for those five minutes plan giving marketing tips that is tony’s take two and here is marie a simple with deep pockets. Maria semple is with us. She is the prospect finder, the trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com, and her book is panning for gold. Find your best dahna prospects now she’s our doi end of dirt cheap and free ideas. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back from vacation, maria. Thanks, tilly. Great to be back here with you. I’m glad you are. Where were you on vacation? We took the kids who are both in college. We took them on spring break and went down to riviera. Maya in mexico. Was this a selling vacation? I know you’re an avid sailor. No, it was land based. But it was wonderful. We did get out on a little catamaran to play that they had available at the resort, you know, to take out on your own. Just, you know, a smaller one. There was fun. There were times where your college kids thrilled about going on spring break with their mom and dad and sitting on the beach instead of being with their friends and drinking beers. Actually, they were. They were just fine with it. And, yeah, we won’t address the other. Part of that, i’m sure if they’re below twenty one that i’m certainly don’t drink beers or anything, are they? They’re they’re of age. They put it that way. Okay, okay, um, well, i’m glad you’re back. Uh, we’re talking about finding pockets of of affluence in communities. This this comes up in your practice, it does. It comes up a lot in, especially when i’m doing seminars or workshops in front of live groups, you’ve inevitably always have somebody raised their hand and say, g, we we really like to know a little bit more about our communities in terms of affluence. What what are the more affluent, zip zip codes on dh then, you know, what is philanthropy looking like in general amongst high net worth individuals? So i thought it might be kind of interesting for us to take some time and talk about what some of the resources are that are available online to kind of examine. You know, both of those areas. Okay, before we go online, is there any chance of starting with your immediate internal resources, like you’re bored? You could could you start there, perhaps? Oh, yeah, absolutely. You could definitely start. With your board what what i think is usually helpful, though, is if you very often, if if you goto your board and try and have a conversation at a board meeting or a development committee meeting and just kind of say, well, who do you know, give us the names of everyone, you know, you know, sometimes it’s better to kind of have maybe sort of almost vetted list first to se gi these air, some people we’ve identified or these air some affluent zip codes we’ve identified in our region? Does anybody know any of these people, or does anybody know anybody in the in the zip code? Because then now you’re getting them to really focus in on some specific people or some specific communities, and then, you know, versus them just trying to figure out who they know in their entire world or roll adex, okay, so we’re going to go online to try to generate these resource is start t these resources to try to generate lists and give people names and communities and things like that, too, jog their memories. Yeah, i think i think that works at a little bit better for a lot of boards, because a lot of people are a little bit more perhaps reserved, or they say, well, you know, who is it that you want me to bring to the table here, give me a little bit more parameter around that. Okay? Well, you’re our diet of dirt cheap and free, so where should we get started with this? So, you know, the census pulls together a lot of great data about communities, and that really is the basis for a lot of these statistics that you can get regarding not only where income levels are and wealth, but how what the makeup is of the population, right? So this could have implications not only for the fund-raising side of your non-profit but also thinking about programs and services that you offer. And, you know, maybe you have certain services that are more geared toward females are more geared towards certain types of populations, maybe immigrants, so you would want to know how you know, what is our population, makeup and how well, with this programme are service you’ve made have a sense that this might be something that you want to offer at your non-profit but not knowing the exact make of of the community you you would probably be, you know, better off. Just kind of doing a little bit of research to see. Well, just what are the numbers of the people in that community that make up that population? Ok, how do we access the census data? So one source is directly from the census itself. It’s it’s called american fact finder. And the website is a fact finder to roman that’s, the numeral two three arabic. We know that’s the arabic numerals, right. The arabic numerals, right back finder to dot census dot gov. So that is a pretty good place to start, because what you can actually dio is you can put in your specific zip code that you would like to do a little bit of research on. And you can get information, for example, like the average adjusted gross income for that community versus the entire state. What charitable contribution deductions are in that zip code. So that could because tito that’s very interesting. Yeah, it’ll. So i had gone in in prep preparation for this particular show today. I went in and put my own zip code in and saw that the average charitable contributions were three thousand sixty two dollars, right? So if you’re trying to think about where tio really start mining specific communities, it could be an interesting way to see if that how about community compares to other nearby communities, and you can also look at income income statistics there you can look at income, you can look at average adjusted gross income. You, khun look att estimated median household income. Andi khun, look att house values as well. So i thought that was kind of interesting because a lot of people will say, well, g, you know it it seems to be that the communities where there might be hyre hyre home values could potentially then translate to higher income bracket and potentially hyre giving as well, yes, interesting so you can you can play with these different variables of income and assets and charitable deductions average terrible reductions in the right zip code, for example, in my zip code. One thing that i found to be kind of interesting when i looked at the estimated median house value in in two thousand eleven as it was broken down by race, um, the asian community came out highest at just over five hundred seventy five thousand. The next highest level was the white population at four, sixty nine and change. So it was interesting to see how, how even they can break it down by race, based on the information found and census data. Okay, and that’s all that fact finder to dot census dot gov, right and another site as well. Which is it? City dash data dot com mom, where you can look at a lot of this broken down but focusing first on the census site that i mentioned the fact finder site, you can download their data into excel spreadsheet. So i thought that was interesting, because then you can you know, if you if you needed to do any type of reporting at your in you can take those spreadsheets and share them with other people within your organization, be that, you know, staff, or or bored, you can also sort you can also sort by different variables, right? Absolutely. And then they also had poverty, statistics and statistics around veterans. So if you were looking to try and figure out where the poverty stats, where, you know, maybe you’re trying to develop programming for lower income children in your community or something like that. You can try and take a look at where those stats are also some non-profits are addressing the needs of veterans, and so you could try and determine what the numbers of veterans in our communities and trying to come up with programming for that specific population. Okay, that’s a very good one. I love that one. Ah, yeah. All right, you mentioned city hyphen data. Dot com city data city data dot com there’s a hyphen in there? Absolutely. And i can put these on your facebook page, if you like after the show. Well, yeah, i’m going to do the takeaways and i’ll have a bunch of them. But you, khun, you can then add some or two you’ll be able to add beyond what i what i put in the takeaways. Okay, okay, terrific. So there again, you can search by zip code and again, you can look at the those adjusted gross income figures, charity contributions, home values again broken down by race and so forth. And, you know, you can a lot of the data you’ll you’ll note it’s laid out a little bit differently. So i think what i would say to your listeners is checked both of them out. See what type of information it is that you want to pull out of this. Andi, see if if if the data is going to be useful for you, it’s presented a little bit differently on the two websites. But i have a feeling that the actual core of where all the data is coming from. It’s really? All from the census. Oh, interesting. Ok, same data differently presented. So youse both lookit lookit? Both. Okay, absolutely. This is an example. You know, i love this example of ah, value that the government provides us through the through the census. Yeah. It’s all it’s all there, it’s free. And so why not take advantage of you know, all of this? All this work legwork somebody else has done for you. What else you got for us? So then i was beginning to think about, well, let’s, look, a philanthropy in general and the mindset, perhaps, of high net worth individuals and two interesting studies that are out there. One is by bank of america. They do a high net worth study on the last one was done at the end of two thousand twelve and another a source that i do want to give some time to talk about is the chronicle of philanthropy because they did something in two thousand twelve called hyre how america gives you remember that and the make of america’s study it is quite lengthy. They do have an executive summaries well, and that girl is a bit longer. So but of course, if you if you just google the bank of america hi network study, you’ll get right to it as well. But what i thought was kind of interesting is that, you know, that they profile how the high net worth individuals are giving now. So where the state of giving wass and at that point in time when they did this study and also how they might be projected to give so i would really encourage the non-profits to take a look at that, especially if they’re looking to, you know, really increase their individual giving program. Ah, most high net worth individuals just to kind of understand where the mind set is for these individuals. Okay, so this is sort of after you’ve identified people that this isn’t really to identify pockets of affluence in your community, but how to deal with those affluent populations, right? Why they why they give what motivates their giving? What motivates their giving? Right? So trying to trying to figure out where they’re giving, where, where might it be going? What is their mindset? So it’s one thing to be able to identify those pockets, but then how do you interact with them? How do you take that data and make it useful for you? Right? So one thing that i found interesting on on one of the pages of the report was that of that particular report was that the high net worth donors are increasing, they’re increasingly directing their gifts towards operating support. Ah, and this is something i get all the time. When i hear at my seminars, people will say, well, you know, the foundations and corporations they really want seem to really want ty, they’re giving to very specific program, nobody wants to fund operating support, but here in this report, they’re saying that they are open to the high net worth individuals are open to ah e-giving you contributions toward operating support. So i think that this is a huge opportunity for non-profits to focus up, because obviously these donors do understand about overhead. They understand that there has to be money for the lights and the heat, et cetera, and i think that you can easily direct some of your conversations to that. That sector. All right, we have to. We have to take a break for a couple minutes. Maria, when we come back, we’ll keep talking about these deep pockets, how to find them. We’ll talk about that chronicle of philanthropy survey, and i know that you have some others, so everybody stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively clamber station top trends, sound advice, that’s tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. Oh, and i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. More live listener love going abroad, sweden, iran and carefully uk but it’s not spelled carefully like the word of course, i could be bringing mispronouncing it, but it looks like carefully to me. C e r p h i l l y welcome live listen, love also tampa, florida, atlanta, georgia, moorestown, new jersey and two unidentified in the u s so if i didn’t say your city, your state, you could be you could be masking, which which which i can’t say i blame you for, but we know you’re out there. We see you very vaguely somewhere in the fifty states. Maria simple. I want to thank you for including a picture of me on your the prospect finder, micro fiber cleaning cloth. Thank you like that. I don’t know how i feel about my face being smeared across people’s monitors and smartphones, but but i think there’s a little picture of you and me in the studio, on the arm, on your cleaning cloth. Thank you very much. You’re very welcome, very welcome. So i decided that sometimes that some of my speaking engagements i might be able to hand that out and be a nice little thing that people could keep and think about our faces for years to come. And i noticed, too. If i if i stretch it vertically, it makes me look hydrocephalus. Oh, my goodness, i haven’t tried them, and if you stretch it horizontally, then looks like i’ve gained about one hundred twenty five pounds. Can i send out some listener lovas? Well, three times? Well, because of your show, i was asked to go and speak to women in philanthropy of western massachusetts back in february, and they’re huge fans of your show. And so i just wanted to give a shout out to them and say hi, thank you very much. Women and women in philanthropy western mass and they’ve invited me to come, but they’re booked until, like, next mayor april or something like that. Twenty fifteen not talking about this year. They’re booked until spring of next year sometime. So tired. Organized group. Yeah. I have time to make my reservations. Um okay. Let’s. Go back to our deep pockets. Was there anything more you want to say about the bank of america study of high net worth philanthropy, or we finished with that? No, you know it’s very in depth, really good projections i found on pages sixty three to sixty five of the study of how they’re giving now and how they’re projected to give so people are feeling a little overwhelmed with study, and they want to at least try and figure out what wears what this all means for me. And where should i go with it? I would say they should focus on pages sixty three to sixty five study that’s incredibly valuable, because and so is the fact that you said earlier there’s an executive summary, because if i was listening and i heard sixty five pages in a survey, i think i’d move on to your next suggestion. But that’s, just me, but it is called the bank of america study of high net worth philanthropy, and as marie said, you can search for that and get it for free. What do we got over the chronicle of philanthropy? This how america gives thing. So what they did back in two thousand twelve, they, uh, they decided to make an entire map of the united states you can put in your zip code and get a lot of data. On where philanthropy is for those specific zip code. So i thought that was kind of interesting because, as you know, the chronicle is one of those resource is that a lot of people really rely on. Um so when i gone in, i put my zip code in, i took a look at they give a breakdown by total contributions what the median contribution is. And then they also give you the median discretionary income. Um, and then they give it as a percentage, they give you the percentage of income given. So i thought that was it was pretty good. They give a breakdown as well by demographic. So you just have an idea. You can look at a breakdown by age, race as well as education level of the population. Uh, just in case that was of interest to you. And they give a breakdown by income level of giving. So if you wanted to see, like they break it down between the people who make between fifty, the study basically starts at assuming on income level of at least fifty thousand. So fifty thousand to one hundred, and then one hundred, two hundred, two hundred. And up and then all income levels help me understand how you would use all these sites. And i know there’s another one one of two we’re going to get to but some claim gives you ah, project a task a need. How would you use all these different sites? You go to all of them? Or do you? You find some from some sites and other info from other sites. How do you approach this? Well, it really depends on what specific piece of information they want. Most of the time they’re giving me the name of an individual. Teo actually profile for them, and other times they might come to me and say, well, you know, we’re interested in it banding and doing some proactive prospecting, you know, where are some of the more affluent neighborhoods that we should be looking to perhaps hold cultivation events? Um, sent mailers out, too, so they’re just trying to identify what are those pockets near them that they should be potentially targeting if they want to get into some proactive prospect and get some new names of people associated with their organization? Right? And if that’s your that’s, your charge, the ladder to find those pockets. How would you how would you approach that? So i would probably go. Teo, both chronicle of philanthropy study, as well as the census data to try and identify where those hyre income levels are and those those locations where people are giving more. So they be more of, i guess, the more likelihood of success if they’re both approaching people with higher incomes and also are accustomed to giving hyre levels of money. Okay, okay, on. And then, of course, you have to devise. You know, what is going to be our plan if we want to go to that entire zip code? What? You know what? What are we going to do? Are we going to divide the mailer to go to all the households there’s in every door direct program, for example, that the post office runs where you can target specific zip codes? Um, every every door direct, no shoot. Right? We’re out of time. Let’s. Hold that every door. Direct, let’s, let’s. Talk about that next time. And ah, unfortunately have to leave it there. So there are some other resource is that you have? Which we will include? You can add to the to the takeaway is that i do on the facebook page, okay, sure, absolutely. Thank you very much, maria simple, the prospect finder at the prospect finder dot com, and on twitter at marie. A simple thank you, maria thank you next week, run like a business and program you’re bored. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. These are our sponsors weinger sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apolo see accounting. It is software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com, and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be green what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

15NTC Videos: Your Content Strategy & Storytelling

Nonprofit Radio video interviews for your content strategy and storytelling. More smart guests from the 2015 Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network.

Multichannel Storytelling (audio only) with Jereme Bivins & Megan Anhalt
How To Get Found with Elizabeth Beachy & Arika Sanchez
Your Content Strategy with Katie Carrus & Brett Meyer

Nonprofit Radio for September 11, 2015: The 9/11 Giving Effect

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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My Guests:

David Campbell & Cristine Cronin: The 9/11 Giving Effect

David Campbell is associate professor of public administration and department chair at Binghamton University. He has first-hand 9/11 experience from his work as vice president at Community Service Society (NYC) on September 11, 2001.

We talk about his opinion piece from 2011 in The Chronicle of Philanthropy, “The Lessons of 9/11 Philanthropy.”

Then Cristine Cronin, president of NYCharities.org is with me to discuss the first online giving responses to the attacks; what’s changed as a result; lessons learned about responsiveness and collaboration; and the future of the “Donate Now” button.

Both interviews are from Nonprofit Radio on September 9, 2011.

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s september eleventh that’s always a touchy day for me, which makes it me especially glad that you’re with me, i’d bear the pain of otitis media if i had to hear that you missed today’s show the nine eleven giving effect. Christine cronin, president of n y charities dot org’s is with me to discuss the first online giving responses to the attacks what’s changed as a result, lessons learned about responsiveness and collaboration and the future of the donate now button. And david campbell, associate professor of public administration and department chair at binghamton university, he has first hand experience from his work as vice president at community service society and why, see, on september eleven, two thousand one, we talked about his opinion piece from two thousand eleven in the chronicle of philanthropy. The lessons of nine eleven philanthropy those two interviews air from non-profit radio on september ninth, two thousand eleven. Then christine cronin joins me live to share her reaction to what she said four years ago, and consider whether nine eleven still impacts giving on tony’s take two. Where were you on september eleventh? We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuing dot com let’s get started with the nine eleven giving effect here’s christine cronin with me in the studio now is christine cronin. She led the creation and launch of charity wave dot com, which was one of the internet’s first e-giving sites started in nineteen ninety nine and as a result, she was on the front line of e-giving on september eleventh, two thousand one, she has worked in washington d c including as national president of women’s equity action league, which led the successful passage of title nine originating sports equity for women. Christine is now president of n y charities dot or ge. And i’m very glad that her work from september eleventh and today brings it to the studio. Christine conan, welcome. Hi, tony. How are you, it’s? A pleasure to have you. What was the state of e-giving in two thousand won? Well, right from the start, which i got involved in nineteen, ninety nine people were very cautious about using their credit cards online and so the ones who were who had even been there yet were what i would call the early adapters. So people who are always the first to do everything and and i also noticed that a lot of credit cards were being used because of awards and points. And so people love switching from check writing to credit card use for philanthropy because it allowed them to collect more points that charitable pursuits the thousand dollar gift gets me a thousand miles. So that was actually a help to getting app getting use of cards online. Absolutely. And i still see that today with our clients, people who want to do gif ts in the five and six figures by credit card for all those valuable points you were at charity wave tell us about charity wave. This was on september eleventh, two thousand one tells about charity wave. Well, justice charitable giving is often a small project within any company. Charity wave was built at the instigation of the chairman of a computer encryption firm called wave systems and the chairman who his name, peter sprague and he’s, the former chairman of national semiconductor. For thirty years, i wanted to use his fledgling e commerce infrastructure for charitable giving, but nobody in his company, which was scientists computer geeks, you know, really understood what he was talking about. And so he was helicopter skiing with a mutual friend one day, and he said, i want to use my e commerce infrastructure, charitable giving nobody understands what i want to do, and my mutual friends said, i think i know someone who would understand and of course, a lot of my background was non-profit so they called me from the mountain, and they said, would you meet? And i said yes and that’s how it all began, okay? And then, well, let me remind listeners that we’re live tweeting and the hashtag to follow is non-profit radio hashtag non-profit radio and just to sort of set the scene for moving us to september eleventh, i was monitoring a chat small non-profit chat, which is hashtag sm and pee chat, and i was not just monitoring, but i was on that this morning run by pamela grow and you can follow pamela on twitter, using that name at pamela grow and one of the quotes that i was really poignant to. Me was from someone who said he was in the tenth grade. And on september eleventh, casey deal away. He’s at k c, j, d and he said, you know, a tenth grade, just trying to figure out what it all meant september eleventh what? What was the charity wave response was immediate? You were up that afternoon, right? Tell us that. I know, and it actually wasn’t me who was the original instigator. We were a cz much in shock as everybody else in new york city, and we actually were at fifty seventh and sixth avenue, and i look down, you could see everybody walking because public transportation had stopped and everybody was silent and we were glued in front of a television, and suddenly a young staff person turned to me, and he said we should set up an emergency relief site, and i just stared at him for several seconds because never in my wildest imagination had i thought i would ever set up an emergency relief site for new york city, and we were already working very closely with united way international. So we were handling charitable giving two disasters all over the world for united way international. And yet this was still just such a stunning concept to me. But then i realized he was right, and i called our engineers, who were based in massachusetts and where our servers were, which were completely safe, and everybody just jumped on the idea, and we had a sight up that afternoon with united way international. So you pulled yourselves away from what everybody else was watching toe actually dig into work, right? It was up that afternoon, you know? And what was the what was the first response i know in the first few days or a week? Well, it was interesting that evening, i was still at the office, and i just wrote an email and i said at this time of, you know, profound tragedy, you know, i just want you to know that we’ve set up an emergency relief site for washington, new york and pennsylvania, and one hundred percent of your gifts will go two victims of these tragedies and what really surprised me because i think many of us did not know that the phones were down and we were so swept up in watching television and in the in the moment that we didn’t realize the phones were ringing and people all over the world because i wrote to everyone in my address book, people all over the world wrote back, and their first words were, thank god you’re alive because no one could reach any of us, and we didn’t even know that i mean, it had just went past us, but then immediately the gifts started coming in, people were desperate to do something, and the gifts came in from all over the world all over the world, and we are going to talk a little about the international response you got. But so even that afternoon and that evening, gifts were coming in. Yes, you have to take a break with christine cronin. We’re talking about the nine eleven effect she’s, the president of my charity’s dot or ge take a break and stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy. Dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, you can join us on twitter the the hashtag to follow is non-profit radio if you’d like tio call and talk to christine kronen were at eight seven seven for eight o for one two oh eight, seven, seven, four ito for one two oh, from the small non-profit chat that i joined earlier this afternoon earlier this morning, this came from amy cept. She said, my stomach still drops thinking of nine eleven. Amy cept is at nim beust. And i am b y christine cronan is with me and she’s, the president of n y charities dot organ had direct firsthand experience on september eleventh. Christine, um, we talked just briefly, but what? I want to get into this a little about the international response that you got from from charity wave what was happening? It was amazing because we were affiliated by the next day with the new york times nine eleven fund and united way international. I mean, we were seen as a very serious player in the e philanthropy space. And so people wrote to us from all over. The world and we were in the new york times every single day as part of their giving campaign, because i just want to clear united way as well as new york times media’s giving right was need e-giving cases was where the charities you had started with, right? Right? Well, i called jack rosenthal, the president of the new york times company foundation, who we were already working with on neediest cases, and he said, you know, give me a few hours, and so by the next day, the new york times nine eleven fund had been initiated, and so we we went with those two major charities, so as a result, we were getting emails from people all over the world and and very, very touching emails. I mean, even today when i read them and i re read them, i realized how important it is for people to be able to reach out and express their feelings during a disaster and people all over europe and japan and other parts of the world, we’re writing to say something about their feelings about new york and in the depth of how they felt strongly about new york city. Whether they had been there or there, they had grown up there and that they wanted to do something and so many people throughout ideas like we can create these t shirts and we’ll sell them here and then we’ll send the money and every email it seemed at the time ended with what do you think? And i and i felt absolutely compelled to stay every single night, you know, until eleven and midnight responding to all of those. What do you think? Even though i didn’t necessarily know the answers, people were looking for an outlet, a place to do something and you charity wave and other outlets that eventually a rose. I gave them that opportunity. A little boy wrote from switzerland, and he said, i want to do something, but don’t ask me to raise any money, tell me what i can do. I mean, it was just some of them were just heartbreaking, so it was so it was very time consuming, but i did it on. And how about financially? Just in terms of the response to the site that way? Yes. Now remember, people were still hesitant about credit cards online at the point in time, but there’s something about a disaster which helps people, you know, jump over the fence and start using them and to quit writing checks. And so there was quite a surge in online giving, i think you know, overall within about six months, thes site raised just under two million dollars, which at that time was a lot for online giving for those who will be listening to the show on the archive. Trending right now on twitter is the hashtag biggest lesson learned from nine eleven so if if you’re listening live, you can look at that hashtag but for those who are in the archive you khun listening to the archive you khun, listen, look back to the hashtag biggest lesson learned from nine eleven and so let’s christine let’s turn to some of the lessons first, how how do you see online giving compared to other other methods of giving? Well, i was very used as everybody was in the non-profit space to direct mail and the average gift through direct mail for years had been around thirty five dollars, when i began working at wave systems than charity wave in nineteen ninety nine. One of the first things i noticed was the size of the gifts, and i thought to myself, wired there’s so many hundred dollars gifts, you know, it didn’t make sense to me, and i finally began to realise, as did others who were involved in philanthropy around the world, that people will give more with their credit cards than they will win the writing checks, and i sort of explained it to myself if i’m in macy’s and i only have a check in some cash, i’m going to spend less then if i’m in macy’s and have a few credit cards on me and so that’s sort of how i explained it, okay, but then the challenge, of course, becomes acquiring the donors online versus doing more traditional direct mail. Any advice around around that? Well, often they find you. I mean, i’ve actually found it easier to be online and to be in search engines, and two people find us more than we’re not spending at all this much time looking for donors, as we did before and let’s explain what is and why charities dot or ge? Well, after the internet bust, the wave systems had to shut down various parts of the company, and we were we were never something they made money on, in fact, you know, they were funding their funding it and and they were absorbing credit card fees, so we were oh, so truly one hundred percent of the gifts in the credit card processing fees went directly to the charities that that wave charities was they never anticipated nine eleven when they set up that procedure, and so we were, you know, immediately targeted as something they had to shut down. And so the chairman, at that point peter’s break said to me, well, what do you want to do next? You know, i’d be happy to help you, and i said, we know so much i said we should do this as a non-profit and he looked at me, he wasn’t sure you were okay, he was going to be part of that, and i said, oh, you’re going to be chairman started recruiting your board instantly in the first conversation, brilliant, and i said, but i would like, i don’t want our efforts to be so dispersed. I mean, we were really national and any charity in the country could have started using us his charity way, but it was very difficult to do. Unlimited resource is and so i said, let’s, just target a space and do it really well. And after nine eleven, you know, it was so obvious to me that i wanted to target new york because of the emotionalism of that entire time period. Okay, so and why charities dot organism is a portal that leads people to e-giving and also information and even volunteering right for new york chadband tax returns on every charity in new york state. And i figured there were about twenty five thousand, but there were really closer to sixty. And now there’s closer to over one hundred hundred thousand, right? So a little less than ten percent of all the charities in the country with all the public five o one c three charities, which is, like one point three million. Roughly one point, four are in new york state are their sites like and white charities dot or ge in other states? Well, just about everything has been tried. And there was certainly one called touch dc, which has now been sort of absorbed into network. For good, and then there was one out of louisiana, which was started by the louisiana givers, but it didn’t last. It was sort of what the internet boom was all about, just hundreds and hundreds of efforts to try to make something go. But i would say probably eighty to ninety percent of these things died because there weren’t the resource is to keep it going. And later on, we’re going to be joined by professor david campbell from binghamton university, who has an op ed piece in this week’s chronicle of philanthropy about lessons from nine eleven and the three of us will be talking a little about some of the charities that were created right around nine eleven and how few of those have actually exactly of those have actually survived? So let’s let’s move a little to the future of of online giving. What? What do you see as important? Or maybe some things that charities generally are not doing online, that they should or trends? Well, everybody pretty much knows they’ve gotta have a vibrant website, and they’ve got tio got to make sure the meditate eggs air, working with the search engine, but the problem really is is that often the staff at small non-profits aren’t trained in these areas and as you know, like ninety percent of the non-profits air subsisting on five hundred thousand dollars or less that’s why we’re big non-profit just for the other ninety five percent exactly, and so, but but the internet really has made many, many things easier, and i intentionally hyre young people because they know so much more about technology. Well, and even that idea on september eleventh, you said, came from a young staff person person absolutely so hyre the young certainly we’ve had lots of shows devoted to social media presence for non-profits how important that is and how even just get started. So listeners, you can look back to the archive for how to get started in social media, even if you’re a small shop and why charities dot org’s, there are facebook presence. Oh, yes, but that is his vibrant as it should be. So we we do run unlimited resource is and and we’ve had over fifty million dollars go through when, you know, we started on a shoestring in late two thousand four and so that’s a lot of work it so it’s a lot of effort on the part of staff to make sure everything goes well. Yes, and every charity, nearly every charity starts on a shoestring. There may be the the well endowed family that supports a charity in the outset because a family member because of a family member’s passion but that’s the unusual case nearly everybody starts out with a very small budget, very small board and a lot of passion. And how do you turn that into move that toward, you know, more of a business model, and there are ways for small non-profits do that as you’re you’re describing, but it also, you know, sort of explains, as you said, so many of them then go out of business because they are all start with passion, and if they’re lucky, they start with money. But, you know, you can’t it’s this it’s a heavily regulated area, and so there is a lot to do to keep a non-profit going and there’s a lot of paperwork that needs to be filled out by people who didn’t realize that that’s what they were getting into that’s, right? We had a show, just a couple. Weeks ago with jean takagi and emily chan are regular legal legal contributors talking about alternatives to starting a non-profit and some of them one of the ones that they like to quote the first when they’re talking to someone who wants to start non-profit is collaborating with an existing organisation, and we’re gonna talk about that with professor campbell when he joins us, we have just about a minute before the break, what do you see is the future in online giving? Well, it’s very exciting because i mean, the young people coming up, i feel like they almost have ah, charitable jean, you know, that we didn’t necessarily have, you know, and they i really can’t even envision a life without charity being a portion of it. Plus they been handling and dealing with technology since they were, you know, two and three and four, and so they have a level of comfort with technology that many of us never had. And so i think we’re going to be seen so many exciting effort’s online and on the internet as a result of this generation coming and rushed on dh younger than generation y with christine cronin she’s the president of n y charities dot or ge? She has first hand experience from september eleventh in online giving. We’re going to take a break right now after the break, we’ll be tony’s take two and then i’ll be joined by professor david campbell. We’ll be talking about his op ed piece in this week’s chronicle of philanthropy, which is based on lessons learned from his firsthand experience in september eleventh giving so i hope you’ll stay with us all that coming up first, pursuing you need more money pursuant helps you raise more money. They’re perfect for small and midsize shops because they have online tools and that means you pick what you need. You don’t have to be all in for some big program package that’s more than what your organization really requires prospector platform. I’ve talked about this before finds your upgrade ready donors who are lurking in your database, you know they’re in there, but which ones are they find them and engage with them through prospector platform. Pursuant dot com, you’ll raise more money. Where were you on september eleventh? I was on the campus of st john’s university in queens, new york, that school is up on a hill, and i was able to see the world trade center in lower manhattan, and i remember switching between watching close ups on tv and looking out my own view out my window at my office window, the office next to me had a tv in it, and i remember going back and forth between the tv and the window like the tv didn’t seem riel because it was removing me from something so close just a few miles away, but obviously looking out the window made it ah made it quite riel and there’s, no mistaking or forgetting about what you see with your own two eyes and asked on facebook and twitter where people were patrice morgan, she was home in greenwich, connecticut, watching on tv and knowing that her husband, rick, was on a train to grand central terminal in new york city no smartphones than two thousand won, so she knew that he didn’t know what was going on our own. Claire meyerhoff was in her radio days. She was anchoring the news for yusa today channel on x m radio and from their washington dc from their washington, d c studio teo, she was doing breaking news for them on on that day, michael graciano he was walking into seven world trade center and remembers seeing the first crash and debris falling around like rain. He says september eleventh. Like i said, always a little touchy for may. Still, fourteen years later, that’s tony’s take two for friday, eleventh of september thirty sixth show of the year, affiliate affections affections out to all the listeners and our many affiliate stations throughout the country. Affections? I mean, i’d love to say affiliate love, but i don’t get the liberation there, so you know it’s love, but we call it affiliate affections. Likewise, i’d like to say podcast love to all the podcast listeners, but, uh, it’s, this doesn’t work for me, so sending pleasantries toe all our podcast listeners over ten thousand of you, you know, it’s really love but podcast pleasantries and live listener love where’s that going let’s, start let’s start here in the u, s st louis, missouri, new bern, north carolina and do cane, pennsylvania live listener love to those listeners in those cities and going abroad. Xiao yang, china, ni hao seoul, south korea always checking in seoul. So grateful to you, i know i saved all time, but that’s, because because i am so grateful. Anya haserot and tokyo, japan konnichiwa also joining us tashkent, uzbekistan welcome, uzbekistan, lovett live with their love to you let’s continue with the nine eleven e-giving effect. David campbell joins the conversation i’m joined. Now i’m going to bring in professor david campbell. He is a professor at binghamton university and chair of the public administration department there. On september eleventh, two thousand one, he was vice president for programs at the community service society in new york city, and they were affiliated with the new york times need his cases, which christine cronin was just talking about will bring all that together. We’re talking about david campbell’s op ed piece in the chronicle of philanthropy this week titled the lessons of nine eleven philanthropy a decade later, i’m very pleased to welcome to the show from binghamton, new york. David campbell. Thank you, tony david, i well, i know you’re actually not in becomes and right now you’re unethical, but has binghamton doing there’s? A lot of flooding there and evacuations. Twenty thousand people have been evacuated in in binghamton, still a state of emergency, the building where i work has been flooded, at least the basement and and the first floor things are pretty grim, so i guess i would ask your listeners, too. Check out the local charities in broome county, united way of broome county and others that are looking at ways to provide assistance to the many people in the southern tier who’ve been affected by the flood. David on september eleventh you were vice president at community service society. Why don’t you explain what that organization did? Community service society is on old line social welfare organization that has always focused on the needs of low income new yorkers, and after nine eleven, we were sort of faced with the challenge. How does the organization adapt to this very riel and new set of circumstances facing new yorkers? And and a lot of my offense piece dealt with how we responded and how other established organizations responded to nine eleven as well. If you wanna link teo david campbell’s op ed piece, go to my blog’s m p g a d v dot com and in the post for today’s show there’s a link teo read david’s op ed piece we’re live tweeting the hashtag is non-profit radio were also on the phone, so if you want to call eight, seven, seven four aito for one two oh, for those who may still use the phone and maybe you’re not on twitter, david, you point out. Well, actually, before we go there, community service society was related to the neediest cases in new york, the new york times charity, right? Yes, for the new york times neediest fund, a seven or eight established non-profit organizations, the community service society is one. And after nine eleven, the new york times created a special new york times nine eleven media’s fund and, uh, supported those same seven or eight organisations and one or two more that were so specifically focused on disaster relief. So christine cronin, were you aware of community service society? Very much so we had a we had a donation screen and dropped down with every one of the seven agencies listed. So we were very involved. And david. Then on september eleventh, you well, from september eleventh, you’ve just to point out some some lessons for existing charities. And one of them is that that they’d be willing to step outside their traditional role. Can you can you say a little about that? Yes, i mean, this was the thing that troubled me the most. The story i tell in the op ed is having come back to new york on september thirteenth and talking to david jones, the ceo at community service, a sizing. Well, what should we do? And i thought disaster relief that’s not what community service society does and david’s comment to me was any organization to be relevant has to be responsive to this new big need facing new york city, and we had to figure out and he was right. We really had to figure out how do we adapt the capacities and skills we have as an organization to be responsive to these new needs? Faith thing, new york city residents, and we did it. It wasn’t as big a stretches, i thought, and i think one of the lessons is that organizations can adapt to new circumstances and make a big difference that way. And how quickly would you say you? You adapted and we’re ready to go? Well, we had always provided emergency assistance to families facing housing challenges so we were able almost immediately, to say we’re going to move away from finding providing exclusively eviction assistance to providing emergency financial assistance. We could do that within days, subsequent to that, we had to really learn what is this? What are the new needs that other new yorkers air facing? And how can we change our services, for example, providing information toe local non-profits about new disaster relief benefit? We did that kind of education that took us two, two, three, four weeks, but it was really sort of based on how the, how the system of disaster relief was evolving. So we had to evolve with other new york city charities who were trying to figure out what to do at the same time. The learning and adapting and christine, that was your lesson you you learned and adapted immediately when you’re young staffers suggested that you need to do something that right. Assume it’s a disaster happens it’s no longer business as usual, and you’re sort of like playing it day by day, hour by hour, and suddenly you may be in a room with twelve other charities who you sort of have friendly rivalries with because you’re all pursuing the same pots of gold at various foundations. But all of those rivalries have to end during a disaster, and it becomes simply what can we do? What we do is a group. How can we work together? How can we supplement each other’s efforts? And, you know, it’s not always the easiest thing to do, but you have no choice during a disaster. And david campbell, your your op ed points out in a quote, i think from the your ceo that ah, charity risks irrelevance if it doesn’t react too two to the disaster, in fact, that’s what that was the reality for new yorkers on september twelfth was that we had been attacked and three thousand new yorkers had been killed and many were displaced and struggling. And it was the only way to be relevant was to be responsive. In some ways, that was sort of what the community needed. And and that lesson took me a couple of days to figure out. But as christine point that we had to adapt because that’s what new york needed at that point and i want to bring in something that comes from the small non-profit chat that i was privileged to be with this morning before the show quote is from from shannon do little her her, she said that you must connect services to the tragedy in the aftermath of fund-raising and i think that’s pointing out sort of the same thing. You otherwise you risk irrelevance not only that you have to act, but that your services have to be related to the tragedy at hand. That’s chan and do a little and her twitter ideas at sl do little so christine, you just we’re talking about collaboration and david, you have a terrific story about collaboration around the windows of hope organization in september eleventh. Can you can you tell that story? Yes. So the windows of hope family relief fund is a a new organization that was created by a chef who who wanted to provide some assistance to the families of hospitality industry workers who died on nine eleven. And in that case, it was the families of workers that windows on the world than anyone else who worked in the hospitality industry who was killed, and this group of chefs and other hospitality industry professionals got together. And the month after nine eleven, some of you may remember a special event called dine out on october eleventh, two thousand one, and from that event and others raised six million dollars and subsequent another eleven million dollars within the year. And in october two thousand won the leaders of windows of hope came to community service society and said, we’ve raised this money. We want to help out this group of of the families of hospitality industry professionals who were killed. But where, chef, not social workers, we really need to figure out how to get the expertise to provide assistance quickly and effectively to the families who are affected. Can you help us? And so we, uh we agreed to collaborate with them because we had the expertise and how to how to provide this assistant. And we had knowledge as a social service organisation about how to distribute it effectively. So we leverage they leverage their expertise and their connections with people in the hospitality industry to raise money and focus on the concerns of the specific population, and we were able to provide the technical expertise to distribute. That money, so it was possible to help those families of hospitality industry workers who were killed. I just think that’s a great story about collaboration we have just about a minute before break. Christine, you have a comment on the story? Yes, i saw very much through jack rosenthal’s work, who is president of the new york times company foundation. He really focused in on the immigrant populations and and the people who are really out of the loop of social services, and he gave a lot of thought and and brought his resource is together to get to the people who would never be part of the normal social service structure and that’s that’s difficult to do because they often these people don’t want to be found, but they were desperately in need, you know, they’ve lost their their breadwinner. We’re talking about the nine eleven effect on tony martignetti non-profit radio we’re going to take a break and when we return, of course, so staying with me will be christine cronin, president of charities dot or ge, and david campbell who’s op ed pieces in this week’s chronicle of philanthropy about lessons from nine eleven stay with us like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back. We’re talking about the nine eleven effect with christine cronin and professor david campbell. There are some lessons, david in your piece about small non-profits and how nimble they could be, and i think that windows of hope story is an outstanding one. That was it was a startup organization before we go a little further with that, christine cronin has some ideas about how big existing non-profits khun struggle in the midst of a disaster. Yes, often you find yourself in a pr disaster, even though it was so unintentional and you were really trying to do the right thing. And, for example, one of the major charities of the red cross explained that they often kept part of the money for future disasters, and they always had but that became a point of severe contention and ah, lot of bad press, and it haunted them for quite a while and then the including in congress? Yes, because red crosses congressional charter very, but as well as outside congress and then the salvation army, because so much money was coming in offered to pay basic expenses of people across the country, i mean across the state and city, they were flooded with people sending their bills in, and they couldn’t handle it. And then they found they had a pr disaster on their hands. And so, you know, you try to do the right thing, but often you find yourself in trouble later and david, the lesson you point out eyes that those big existing charities shouldn’t fear the small startups that emerge for disaster relief. Well, there’s always the fear, and you hear so much talk these days about we have too many non-profit organizations in a time of recession, we need to merge. And the takeaway i i took from nine eleven is that the windows of hope family relief fund, as christine was describing earlier, was able to meet the needs of a population that would otherwise be ignored, that those small organizations, really or the startup organizations can can fill a niche or metoo need that others are not meeting. And those immigrant workers those huh? Those families of hospitality industry people who were killed on nine eleven may not have been able to or willing to go to salvation army. They may not have been been nervous because of their, uh, their immigration status or or lack of familiarity with those traditional organizations, they go to a place they trusted, and that in that situation they went to the windows of hope family relief fund because they knew the chefs they knew the restaurant owners who started the fund and they trusted and felt confident with them. Community service society, founded in eighteen forty three, couldn’t offer that same assurance hard lesson for me to learn, but a really important one for leaders and nonprofit organizations to take away. You did some research on the two hundred fifty eight charities that sprung up as a result of september eleventh, and and they were able to spring up because the irs offered on expedited tax exemption approval, but very few of them exist now want to share your research, please? So i i found that there were two hundred fifty eight organizations, as you mentioned, that received expedited tax exempt status from the irs, and of those organizations on lee, thirty eight of them have have filed irs nine, ninety information returns in the past two years, which means more than likely that only those thirty eight continue to exist. I don’t necessarily. Think that that’s a bad thing. What it tells me is that many of those organizations may that have not filed nine nineties have gone out of business may have actually accomplished the goals they would have to accomplish, which was to provide immediate disaster assistance, most of the organization that continue to exist or those that have the strongest connection to nine eleven organisations of victims, families, organizations like windows of hope that our most connected and having most connected to nine eleven and haven’t enduring nine eleven related mission, too, to accomplish her to provide and so a lot of of new organizations with a short term mission but went out of business as soon as that mission was accomplished. I learned from the small non-profit chat earlier today that vermont public radio has created an audio memory quilt, and i thought that was by posted by at brendan kinney, and i just thought that that was an excellent example of tying e-giving today to the disaster and so not not wanted by certainly not trivializing but wanting to remember and tying the today’s giving to disaster ten years ago. And so there’s an example of organization that’s still around and doing that important nine eleven remembrance work. So david two hundred fifty eight seem like a small number two you that arose in direct response to september eleventh. I actually seemed like a relatively large number to me, but because and they raid six hundred seventy nine million dollars, perhaps the number of organizations is less important than the amount of money that they raised those two hundred fifty eight organization through six hundred seventy nine million dollars by the end of two thousand two. Although it was really dominated by a particular types of organizations. People who had really the closest relationship. Two, nine, eleven people from local communities affected by nine eleven people affiliate with firehouses, people in in a trade associations and other organizations of workers that i could identify with people who were affected. I guess my quick take away is that what i saw in these organizations as people who had son? Something about nine eleven resonated with them, and they felt the need to respond. And you see, in those two hundred fifty eight, that sort of connection and identity. Christine, what do you think? Two hundred fifty eight it makes sense to me because americans are just so charitably oriented. And if they are great, if their if they feel emotionally connected to something, it makes sense to them to start a charity. They often get into it, not realizing how much is involved. But it’s not surprising to me at all, because i just see this every day. Yeah, david going, i would have one other thing about this. Remember that starting a new organization is in contrast to giving to an existing one. And so i suppose you can evaluate that two hundred fifty eight as a number on ly, in contrast to all the other existing organizations that people gave teo. And if you think of it in those terms, perhaps the two hundred and and all the opportunities people had to give to existing organizations, the two fifty eight probably looked pretty big. Okay, fair enough. And certainly that staggering number six hundred seventy nine million by the end of two thousand two is quite large. Yeah, so? So, david there’s. Some terrific lessons. I think in your in your piece on again. There’s a link to david’s op ed piece in the chronicle of philanthropy. On my blogged mpg devi dot com about existing non-profits not fearing and, in fact needing to collaborate with new non-profits and and us not discouraging new non-profits anything more you want to say about the lessons learnt because that’s, the that’s, the crux of your piece what i took away from the folks at windows of hope was i told you that they were committed to helping this population that they felt with otherwise be ignored, largely immigrant families, hospitality industry workers they raised this remarkable amount of money six million in a month, seventeen million by the end of two thousand two. What really impressed me, however, today and they felt riel responsibility for that population. What really impressed me was that they were willing to let go of some troll and collaborate with an organ unorganised ation they didn’t know i met the leaders of windows of hope for the first time in a few weeks after they had raised their money, but they were willing to sort of let go and collaborate with us because they saw that is the best way to accomplish their mission. I think that sort of willingness to try something new. And to to open themselves up to another organization is really resonates with me as professor david campbell he’s, a professor at binghamton university, and his op ed pieces in this week’s chronicle of philanthropy titled the lessons of nine eleven philanthropy a decade later. David, thank you so much for being on the show. It’s been a pleasure having you and christine cronin, thank you very much. Christine is president of charities dot organ. We talked about her firsthand experience from september eleventh wave charities. Christine, thank you so much. Thank you, toni also want to thank everybody who’s in small non-profit chat on twitter we today was our first collaboration. They have the the chat every other friday from noon to one so right before this show and i hope to collaborate with them again. The hashtag there is sm np chat and you get more information from at pamela grow because she’s, the moderator of small non-profit chat. So thanks to the folks who are participating in that jet, i also want you to know that david campbell’s op ed piece from two thousand eleven is still up again. Titled the lessons of nine eleven philanthropy, christine kronen is with me, and she is still the president of n y charities. Dot org’s. Hello, christine. Hi, tony. How are you? Well, thanks. Thank you. Thank you very much for being with me on the september eleventh show. I i really appreciate that. Thank you. Well, i appreciate having this conversation again. Any reaction to what? You just heard the conversation the three of us were having? Well, it brings back such sad memories and as i think it does for all new yorkers. But it’s it’s, what i learned during that time period was how difficult it is to function during a disaster which affect people, you know, and friends and and then people down the street who you didn’t know. And i now have so much admiration for people who respond to disasters as the profession and, you know, and who go in volunteer when a disaster happens because you’re facing the consequences every single moment, and you just have to keep pushing yourself. I have a much more appreciation which which you and david did mean in your own ways. You each did respond. You know, you were in question. You were first responders, and on dh, staggering amounts of money raised and in just a short amount of time, i’ll never forget that afternoon. You know, when we were all sitting in shock around a conference table, it was the youngest person on the staff who turned to me and said, we need to set up with this after release site, and i just stared at him for several minutes because even though we were already doing disasters with united way international and we were doing them for disasters all over the world, it never, ever, ever occurred to me that we would do one for new york, and i just it was incomprehensible, and i finally realized he was right. Yeah, do you think september eleven still has a nim packed on e-giving i think that most of us can’t wipe it out of hyre memory bank, it was such a stunning, you know, event and the emotions around it were so overwhelming that yes, i do believe it definitely has an impact. Yeah, i find it hard to imagine that that would go away. I mean, i guess it’s it’s natural that that it will now we’re fourteen years out and you know, i i i always maybe it’s just, you know, i’m imposing my thoughts on everyone else, but i i just i think about it, you know, pretty may be intensely each year, even though, you know, this is like, you know, it’s fourteen it’s fourteen years later, not a not a five year anniversary sort of milestone, i imagine maybe fifteen years will be a bigger a bigger deal, but i don’t know, it’s, just i agree with you, it’s still it’s still impacts me, you know, around the day and, like, you know, certainly the day and maybe the day after two it’s ah, and then also in another disaster comes up like hurricane katrina, for example, and you immediately, or at least we immediately, you know, try to decide what can we do? What charities will we feature? You know, it all just starts coming back and the emotions around the disasters that you’ve experienced, and i don’t think i mean, i certainly hope that there will never be one as bad as nine eleven, but you just never wipe it out of your memory bank something that came from the discussion we had four years ago. That is sort of uplifting, i think. Is that that that small organizations have that nimbleness advantage, that they can quickly adapt and learn? As you and david and i were talking about and respond there’s, no question about that. And, you know, we still see it all the time. I mean, a lot of ideas emerged from neighborhood groups and from parent teacher association. And those were the ones who know each other well and they quickly get together and they, you know, develop. Ah, plan to react to the latest emergency at n y charities dot organ. You work a lot with small, small and mid sized shops, right? Definitely it’s. Interesting. How evil answer she has changed in the left. You know, ten years i started in it in nineteen ninety nine, but it’s like a moving target. Tony, you know it’s like one day a charity’s working with you the next day, they’re trying to do their own merchant account. The next day they come back because having a merchant account is very difficult. So it’s it’s really just keeps changing all the time and you just have to be prepared to say okay, today this is what we’re dealing with and let’s go with it. Yeah, those air, you know, that’s a lesson that i hear from a lot of guests and there’s that small and even midsize shop advantage, but this smaller size, you know, when i was just a few people deep, you can you can be quick and and a lot of, you know, certainly in terms of a disaster, you’re reacting not a hundred percent rationally, but you’re doing the best that you can and that’s all that’s all we really can expect and then the passion that goes with disaster, you know, or the personal connection, i mean, so many people knew someone in the towers, and many of us didn’t know for a series of days, you know, who was alive and who wasn’t and, you know, you just you just keep moving. I mean, i stayed in the office probably for two months till about eleven o’clock at night, answering emails from people all over the world. Yeah, those were the emails that asked, how does that sound, right, exactly, exactly or what do you think of this idea? I’m going to try to you go to my school today and, you know, sell cookies, you know, and send it. Where should i send it? And what do you think? Everything ended with what do you think? You know, i would spend hours and hours just trying to respond because i felt so strongly that people needed to know someone was listening. We need to leave it there. Thank you again for joining me today. My pleasure. Thanks. Cracking. Thanks, christine. Next week run like a biz. Hillary schaefer has a wall street background. Now she runs a non profit and shares her advice on applying wall street to the jefferson awards foundation and program your board, your boards responsibilities for your program side with jean takagi are regular monthly legal contributor. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Thanks for being with me. The singing will return pursuant. Full service fund-raising you’ll raise car loads of money. I’m not talking about mini coopers or smart cars. I’m talking humvee fourteen passenger stretch limousines and don’t those things are ridiculous, but not when they’re filled with money. Pursuant dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer show social media’s, by susan chavez, susan chavez, dot com and our music is by scott stein. Thank you for that information. Scotty. You’re with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great.