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Nonprofit Radio for June 7, 2021: Nonprofit Partnerships & Partnerships With African American Churches

My Guests:

Taylor Leake & Jack Valor: Nonprofit Partnerships

Our 21NTC panel reminds you: You don’t have to do your work alone. You can increase your exposure by promoting the work of other orgs, and even fundraise in partnership with other nonprofits. They’re Taylor Leake with Corporate Accountability and Jack Valor at Mal Warwick Donordigital.





Aneta Lee & Oliver Richmond: Partnerships With African American Churches

Now that you’re motivated to partner up, look to Black churches. Aneta Lee and Oliver Richmond help you understand the idiosyncrasies of church culture and how to cultivate a relationship. Aneta is from Aneta Uplifts and Oliver is with Kingdom Partners. This is also from 21NTC.





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[00:02:46.34] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. We’re back to regular energy low. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Dyskinesia if you moved me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Non profit partnerships. Our 21 NTC panel reminds you you don’t have to do your work alone. You can increase your exposure by promoting the work of other org’s and even fundraise in partnership with other nonprofits. They’re taylor leak with corporate accountability and Jack Valor at Mall Warwick, donor digital and partnerships with African american churches now that you’re motivated to partner up Look to black churches, Anita lee and Oliver. Richmond help you understand the idiosyncrasies of church culture and how to cultivate a relationship. Anita is from Anita uplifts and Oliver is with Kingdom Partners. This is also from 21 NTC. You see how the show is put together here. It doesn’t just happen. You see this pervasive partnership theme running through which is what makes it pervasive, it’s all, it’s all coordinated. It’s all thought out On Tony’s take two planned giving accelerator. We’re sponsored by turn to communications Pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome a new sponsor, send in blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue kicking off our partnership theme show here is non profit partnerships. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC the 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C. O. My guests now are tailor leak and Jack Valor Taylor is Digital director at corporate accountability and Jack is senior account executive at Mall Warwick donor. Digital Tell her Jack, welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:02:57.24] spk_1:
Thanks very nice to you. Pleasure

[00:02:58.44] spk_3:
and Taylor, I should say welcome back. Welcome back. Have you a previous uh, previous ntc coverage.

[00:03:05.11] spk_1:

[00:03:26.44] spk_3:
Your session is what we accomplished together, building new and inclusive non profit partnerships. So who wants to start by just reminding us that we do not have to do our work alone. We can have, we can have help, who would like to start. Okay, fine. I’m gonna pick Jack, you start

[00:04:42.94] spk_4:
or um, so I think that really we came up with this concept because corporate accountability does a lot of great work partnering with a lot of wonderful organizations that have missions that are similar to theirs. Um, and we found that they were able to accomplish not only what they wanted to accomplish in ways that they didn’t have the capacity or resources to do otherwise, but also reach out to organizations that didn’t, you know, have the resources themselves to really boost their own missions and help in ways that they wanted to be able to help facilitate and grow organizations that they really believed in. So we wanted to kind of spread that message and talk through ways that organizations could partner and do things that would really change the world for the better, um, in reach out to each other and in, um, in ways that they might not expect.

[00:04:49.74] spk_3:
And, and taylor you can even, uh, increase your own exposure. The organizations don’t exposure by promoting the work of others.

[00:05:32.44] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the things that really stood out as we were developing this. And one of the reasons we came to this idea was, you know, in our experience, we found that these partnerships aren’t just beneficial for both organizations, sort of as a, as a one plus one, but actually it was, it was adding even more to our work when we partnered with other groups. So for instance, we did a giving Tuesday campaign with, partnered with a group in flint called flint rising. And we found that even though we were basically fundraising and giving half of the gifts that we brought in to flint rising, we were raising more, even giving away half than we had in previous years without a partnership like

[00:05:43.03] spk_3:
that. You for giving away half than you had when you when you were on your own.

[00:05:53.74] spk_1:
Yeah, exactly. So I think it’s sort of a net positive and you know, I think we are doing all we can to reject this idea that there’s sort of a zero sum, right? It’s more of a mindset of spreading the wealth and everybody being able to lift each other

[00:06:19.24] spk_3:
up rising tide, raises all boats or whatever metaphors we want to use. Well, whatever storms can this take that? That’s that’s outstanding example giving Tuesday. What other forms can this take, where you can improve your own outcomes by working with and promoting the work of others?

[00:07:27.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, one other example that we talked about, um, and I think Jack, you had a couple of really good examples from other organizations as well. Um, but we, uh, we also do a lot of work with coalition actions. So that’s sort of more on the on the advocacy and list building side. But this is essentially a tactic where you can start a petition and then invite a whole bunch of other groups to participate with you. Um, and not only is that a way for you and your partners who are working together to drive folks to this petition to grow their email lists, but for us, you know, it’s been, you know, are the organization, I work for corporate accountability. We have some pretty sort of niche, complicated issues. Um, and so this is a way for us not just to sort of like gather a bunch more petition signatures, but also sort of get our analysis and our campaigns and our ideas out there to a bunch more folks by getting other groups to promote petitions that we have developed to their membership as well.

[00:07:43.44] spk_3:
Okay, Cool petition drives Jack. You have, you have examples. I love these. I want, I want folks to realize that there’s a lot of possibilities around partnering and improving your own outcomes.

[00:08:09.94] spk_4:
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, one example that I think worked out really, really well is that, um, an organization that I work with simple virus fund there, a small local organization in the, they work help helping save and protect and restore uh, redwood lands in the santa Cruz Mountains

[00:08:13.76] spk_3:
and say the name of the organization again, just a little slower.

[00:08:17.37] spk_4:
Yeah. Semper environs Fund some

[00:08:20.95] spk_3:
semper environs.

[00:08:32.74] spk_4:
Mhm. Yeah, it’s a latin word that is for redwood trees. Um, it’s very, um, very, very specific. Yeah, exactly. Um,

[00:08:35.71] spk_0:

[00:09:20.94] spk_4:
so they, um, they partnered at, at the time, in august, there was a big fire in one of their parks, um, wildfire that happened during a time when there were wild fires all over California. And um, it was the very first part that they developed. Um, they partnered with California state parks as well as save the Redwoods League to um, bring together a bunch of donors who were very passionate about that park and wanted to save it and restore it back to its former glory. Um, They were able to raise throughout the entirety of the year, um, A ton more money because of that partnership. Um, they were able to increase their revenue by 152% and their gifts by 98% just through having that partnership with those organizations and spreading the word altogether.

[00:09:43.34] spk_3:
Jack, what do those campaigns look like? Give us the insight is every piece co branded? Does every piece talk about the work of the other and, or, and how the work overlaps? And what does that, what does that look like?

[00:11:01.34] spk_4:
I think, you know, it can be different. And that’s something that, you know, we definitely wanted to talk about when we put this together is that it really depends on how the organizations want to make this work, you have to come together and say, you know, what are we looking for? What do we want to accomplish here and um what do we want to, how do we want to come to the table? You know, do we want everything to be co branded? Like you’re saying, do we want um to just mention one another um in messages or do we want to um just kind of one time mention and then go about, you know, the rest of the campaign as usual. Um So you have to definitely agree upon all of your terms before the partnership even starts. Um So that you know, um you know what your expectations are and then that way no one gets hurt uh in the end so that you’re not not meeting those expectations?

[00:11:04.24] spk_3:
Okay, cool. Is there another example you have?

[00:12:21.34] spk_4:
Uh Yeah, so I think that um Mhm, pull up my notes um with World Animal Protection, which is another organization that I’ve been lucky enough to work with. Um They usually work with sanctuaries in lots of countries around the globe to save abused animals that can no longer live in the wild because they’ve been you know, in captivity um doing lots of terrible jobs or um you know, having lots of um difficult things put upon them. Uh We were able to create a giving Tuesday campaign around specifically raising money for sanctuaries um and the sanctuary campaign, because it um focused on those sanctuaries and on providing animals um direct money for them and for their needs, Brought in 161% increase in gifts and a 230% increase in revenue. Um

[00:12:24.84] spk_3:
And that’s of course that’s after sharing, Right? These numbers are incredible because it’s like over well over 100% increases.

[00:12:51.44] spk_4:
Mhm. Yeah, it’s really, really helpful too. You know, know that know what your audience cares about, know that they are looking for something different or something um that where they can really make a bigger difference and sometimes they are interested in um you know, they’re like, oh if if I can give here then I’m giving to two different organizations that are really, really wonderful and they’re meeting the um the needs of multiple different types of people or causes at the same time. So why wouldn’t I

[00:13:19.54] spk_3:
tell her somebody who was in one of these organizations? What like what detailed advice can you give for folks who are thinking about? It’s kind of a collaboration like maybe even just start with who might you collaborate with?

[00:16:50.84] spk_1:
Sure. Yeah. I think, you know, sometimes there are some pretty some pretty obvious uh places to start, right? So groups that you you know frequently partner with or that you would work with, you know, that either share sort of the kind of work that you do or share a mission and similar with you. But I think for us, one of the biggest things that we’ve actually had success with is finding groups that share our mission and share our work but have very different, different tactics are different strengths. So, you know, corporate accountability, we do a lot of sort of national and international policy based work. Um and we have had some of our best partnerships with really small state or local groups that are really focused on um grassroots or community organizing. Um and I think the reason it works is, you know, we’re able to sort of bring the bigger sort of systemic analysis and the policies and the sort of like the heavy big stuff, and then we’re able to point to these groups to say, you know, this is literally this is what how this impacts individual people’s lives, and this is how they’re going about working on fixing this, this isn’t just like a sort of zoomed out policy discussion, this is like a thing that is about real people. Um so we’ve had some really good success sort of partnering with groups that have, have different, have different approaches and different strengths to us. Um and I think those those can make really, really fruitful partnerships, um just because, you know, you’re you’re sort of complementing one another, I think, you know, you can I’ve we’ve had some really good partnerships with other sort of national policy oriented groups as well, but I do think that’s one place that I think it has been a little bit surprising to me is like actually like finding those groups that have a really different Thing that they do 2.2 is important. And then for us, you know, when we, when we started doing some of this work, one of the biggest pieces that was really important to us was um really being mindful of racial equity and equity overall. So we’re really approaching this as a way to sort of resource the movement. We’ve, you know, we started corporate accountability started Over 40 years ago with the nestle boycott in the late 70s. Um, and so that was a campaign where we were working primarily with organizations in uh, in South America. Um, and working to stop nestle from marketing infant formula in communities that it was really harmful for infant formula to be used and infants were getting sick and dying. Um, so we’ve always had this dynamic where we are a group that’s based in the Global North, in in the US, but we’re primarily, or often working with groups in the Global South and communities of color. So there’s there’s a built in power dynamic there that were always sort of aware of. And I think one of the, one of the things we really strive to do with these partnerships is to seek out, you know, black and uh of colour led organisations and Global South led organizations that we can work with and we can resource because oftentimes we have a much higher access to those resources than these other groups that are doing incredible work that you deserve this as much more more than we do. So that’s another another thing that we’ve really focused on. You know, that’s not centered everybody but

[00:17:12.24] spk_3:
corporate accountability has centered equity. It sounds like in probably across all your work. But and so it just becomes part of your D. N. A. And absolutely you have it in mind as you or it’s an objective as you as you look for these partnerships

[00:17:25.24] spk_1:

[00:17:57.14] spk_3:
How about some advice around you know like sticky points? Uh some problem issues, you know you trust your partners of course but things are gonna come up, you know no no agreement can anticipate everything or you know whether it’s a verbal agreement or a written agreement. And how do you how do you navigate some of the tricky parts like maybe somebody put something out that doesn’t quite describe your work correctly or you know things like that or whatever it might be. Oh that was it could be either one I was thinking of taylor because he’s been involved in these, but it could be either one of you, I don’t care if somebody step up this time.

[00:19:41.54] spk_1:
Yeah, I’m curious if Jack has other examples, but you know, I think, I think for us, um, really the biggest, the biggest thing is like, as Jack mentioned earlier, having agreements and having conversations in sort of, in the beginning, you know, really laying out what’s expected, what roles are going to be for each organization, uh, sort of how you expect things to look, how money is going to get dispersed if you’re doing joint fundraising, you know, sort of, all of those nitty gritty details. Um, and then, you know, it’s really, it’s really just communication, you know, checking in a ton. Um, you know, we frequently will do a whole slew of emails to try and promote some of these fundraising campaigns that are joined. And, you know, we build in a step where we literally just send the copy of the emails over to the partners and have them review them, um, just to make sure we’re being super upfront and saying like, does this sound good to you? Are we describing your work appropriately? Like, you know, is there a better way you would want to say this? Um, and so, you know, that, that I think is key for for us is just, is just that constant communication is really the most important thing. And I think, you know, even before that, just sort of building building deep relationships, um, and and sort of like cementing that trust before you are trying to jump in on something that’s big, like joint fundraising campaign where tens of thousands of dollars could be at stake. Great. Um, so it’s definitely not like a starting point in your relationship. It’s something that you want to, you want to build towards. Okay

[00:19:45.04] spk_3:
Jack, anything you want to, you want to add there about sticking points or you feel like taylor covered?

[00:21:17.34] spk_4:
Yeah, he mostly covered it. I would say, you know, to your point, tony um, about, you know, if you put something, someone put something out there and it doesn’t really meet, um, anything about your organization or what have you. I think, you know, talking about your brand, that’s something we kind of speak our touch on in our session. Um, uh, making sure that they have all of that information, your logos, um, all of that so that everything is laid out so that they’re following that information as well. That’s part of the initial communication that should happen. Um, so that they’re not, you know, using words that you would never use in your communications, things like that. Um, and I think another piece here is that you make sure that not that you’re treading lately, but that you’re working really entirely in partnership, in your in your, uh, coming to it with equity and, um, and real conversation in mind. Um, and knowing that there’s likely no harm meant from your partner because you you you want to not only build that partnership for now, but build it for the future. Um, who knows how beneficial it could be in, um, you know, the future campaigns, um, things that could come up where you could work together on something that could really, um, open yourselves up for some really, really amazing opportunities. So it makes sense to not do something that could cause some of that rift

[00:21:39.74] spk_3:
you all had. Right expanding lists by exchanging swapping is one of you more accustomed more acquainted with that than the other?

[00:21:44.64] spk_1:
Yeah, Probably me,

[00:21:49.64] spk_3:
Jack. Okay. Yeah.

[00:23:20.24] spk_1:
So we do this a ton. Um, and it’s a really, it’s a really great tactic. Um, it is something that we use Action Network, so it’s something that’s built into Action Network as a sort of email tool set and advocacy tools that not to not to bust market them, but they are the ones that have built this tool. Um, and essentially what it allows is when you set up a petition, um, you can invite other groups to also promote that petition. Um, and once you send them sort of a unique link for them to promote the petition with, um, it automatically tracks sort of where activists are coming from, and then automatically shares a proportion of the folks who signed that petition with your partners. Um, so the expectation is, you know, if if I am partnering with another group and they join and they send an email out to their list and get 100 new folks to join to sign that petition, That they would get out of the total pot of folks who take action 100 new folks to add to their list. Um So it’s sort of it’s a great way both to get more signatures than you would stand alone, right? You know, if your group can get x number of petition signatures inviting a couple other groups will get you a whole bunch more. Um but it also it also is a way to sort of for everybody to sort of grow their email lists and speak to folks who like actually care about your topics because they’re signing a petition that is based on your mission and your issues.

[00:23:46.74] spk_3:
Yeah. Cool. And of course it’s disclosed to people who sign right that they’ll they’ll they’ll receive materials from or however you were at this other, you know, the other group or groups. Okay. Any other ways any other ways of doing this besides petition drives?

[00:23:51.44] spk_1:
I mean that’s the sort of the main one I’m curious, Jack if if there

[00:23:55.60] spk_3:
you, have you seen this in other settings

[00:25:22.14] spk_4:
um in terms of um yeah, it’s mostly petitions or pledges, things like that, just mainly because it’s the easiest way to get another um organizations permission. The other way that I’ve seen it. Er Sorry, another um person’s permission to join a list. Another way that I’ve seen it done is when uh organizations will sponsor each other’s emails across um email. So one organization corporate accountability would say sponsor flint risings, email and they would just send flint risings email to their list. Um And have um flint rising whatever content that is um Those folks um people, corporate accountabilities folks just do whatever that action is for flint rising. I’ve also seen some organizations come together on things like quizzes, games, things like that. Um I put together a whole like mhm uh bracket for an organization before that was like these items like which one is the best? And then it ended up you know with a winner and it was like a couple of weeks long. Um And it ended up being really really successful where a bunch of different organizations were like fighting for which thing was the best on like social media and stuff. So

[00:29:18.84] spk_3:
okay collaborations partnerships, ventures, you don’t have to do your work alone. Right? All right, we’ll leave it there. All right. They are taylor leak. Digital director of corporate accountability and Jack Valor, senior account executive at Mall Warwick donor. Digital telephone jack. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. And thanks to all of you for being with 20 martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 ntc The 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 ntc by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Where would you like to be heard? Use outlets, conferences, podcasts, blogs, editorials. That’s all earned media and turn to can help you get it because they’ve got the relationships with the media outlets. What about your own media though? Owned media turn to can help you improve that because your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. It’s time for Tony to take two planned giving accelerator. The next class Kicks off on July one. People in the first class that started in january, they already started getting gifts in month three and by month four there were multiple gifts at multiple members of that very first class. So within only three and in some cases four months of a 12 month program, the gift commitments already coming in. If you join me in the July one class, you could have gifts by Halloween, This could happen for you too. Planned giving accelerator. It’s the online membership community that I’ve created. I teach you step by step, how to get your planned giving program started. We have monthly live teachings and ask me anything sessions and a podcast. Just for members. There’s resources like templates and checklists. All the stuff I was about to say all the ship, let’s keep it. It’s the stuff well, you know, I just said it. So all this, all the things you need To get your plan giving program launched in 2021 and like I said, join, join in, July joined the July class. You could have gifts by Halloween. It happened for members of the first class. So Where you get the info for the July one class, it’s all at planned giving accelerator.com. Check it out if you’re not in planned giving, I will get you started and if that applies to you, if you’re not in planned giving, I hope to join me for the July one class. That is tony steak too. Here is partnerships with African American churches. Welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC, the 2021 nonprofit technology conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot C. O. With me now is Oliver Richmond is president at Kingdom Putnam

[00:29:25.84] spk_0:
Oliver. Welcome. Thank you for having me on tony I appreciate

[00:30:07.14] spk_3:
it, my pleasure. It’s a very interesting topic. Uh we’re hopefully going to be joined by others who I will introduce as they come in. Now, Oliver joined on time and I don’t want to cut this segment short so we’re gonna get started. You’re topic, There’s someone right now there’s Aneta. Okay, we’re bringing in Anita lee Aneta welcome. We’re already recording live. So please join the conversation with me now is in Italy also she’s chief digital specialist at anoeta uplifts LLC and I had already introduced Oliver Richmond and your topic is Black Church a different kind of non profit

[00:30:09.54] spk_2:
Yes. So let me clarify just a little bit. It is Anita, it’s pronounced Anita,

[00:30:28.94] spk_3:
Thank you very much Anita. Okay, thank you. Okay, let’s stick with you Anita. Well not right. You know what let’s give it to Oliver because he came he was right on time. So I mean okay. Okay thank you Anita. Oliver. What you know black churches. Um I don’t go to one. What do you want folks like me to know about black churches?

[00:31:03.94] spk_0:
Black churches are the heart and soul of the black community. If you go back and look at history, that was the only institution that blacks own coming out of slavery. And the black church has been the one delivered services, tutoring, mentoring, food, spiritual help over the years. They have just been a pillar and helping keep those communities safe and all the good things came out of the black church in the black community.

[00:32:02.84] spk_3:
All the good things came out of the black church. All right. Yeah. I’ve had lots of guests on through the years. I’ve been doing this podcast over 10 years. And mostly they would they would bring up black churches when when it was uh you know, like a program they were trying to carry out like a couple of cases. It was something medical and uh I don’t remember. It wasn’t research, but it was some nonprofit work. And they had emphasized the importance of working through the churches to get community buy in for the for the program that they were trying to they were trying to carry out in the in the community. Um So I’ve heard about this through the years that the black churches are critical and and the and the pastors can be sort of conduits to the to the community. Am I standing there? Okay.

[00:32:05.94] spk_2:

[00:32:07.20] spk_4:
Over the

[00:32:56.14] spk_0:
years, the black pastors and leaders, if you look through civil rights, all different things, they’ve been the ones who have stood up for the community because they don’t have to worry about losing their jobs. Um, so so they stood up for the community and they’re respected as leaders, no matter what size their churches and the black community expects the black pastors to be involved in the community where some churches, the pastor just preached, uh, over the bible, priests teach and then they’re done. But the black church, they’re expected to be involved in the causes if it’s gangs, if it’s feeding health, whatever it might be, they’re the ones that look to, to bring that information deliberate to the people into the community.

[00:32:58.94] spk_3:
And you did, You sounded a little, a little skeptical about the way I said it. You said, well, you said it. Okay. But what, tell me more, what, what, what, what do you want to say to me?

[00:35:54.44] spk_2:
Uh, yeah. Um, I think that you’re absolutely right. Um and when you’ve spoken to many people over the years, yeah, it’s critical um, that black churches are involved, but I think it’s it’s only a small piece, I think that the general world nonprofit community um only see black churches within the lens of whatever program that they’re deciding to do instead of recognizing black church as the literal pinnacle of the black experience. So when you think about, um, our celebrities, our stars, our um, our millionaires and billionaires that that that that made the country looks up to, many of those people have started in the black church. Like if you think about any major musical star in any genre, from, you know, gospel and soul to R and B, even into rap and hip hop, you will find that all of those artists, most of those artists, how to start in the black Church, even if they’re talking about guns and drugs and shooting and sex, they all have uh start in the black church. And I think that that was the reason why I, you know, I intend to allow me to do this because um, from politics and, and from, from health, from business, our major ivy League, historically black colleges and universities are hBc use. Many of them started in the basement of a black church. The obvious one of the more famous ones, Morehouse, um, where dr martin Luther King got his degree and Spelman, which was the female counterpart to Morehouse, was started in the basement of friendship baptist church in Atlanta Georgia. So, and I’m sure you’ll probably have, you know, you can probably hear stories in other cities as well. So I think that that’s what I wanted the nonprofits to see and to understand that were just that, that the black church and the experience of black church is not a place where you can go get your program started and you can hit your demographic. It really is a place where the, the intensity of the culture and the whole meaning the essence of African american experience is based. Mhm.

[00:36:15.33] spk_3:
Thank you. And Anita, you want us to think about partnering with African american churches? That’s the the, I mean, yeah, that’s the whole purpose of the your session. By the way, I have some work going on. You might hear a song in the background. I hope it’s not hope. It’s not too annoying. No

[00:36:15.64] spk_2:

[00:36:17.13] spk_3:
Can you hear me? You hear me over it? Can you I hear you over it? Okay, good. Okay. Um, yeah, so you want to encourage us to uh non profits to be partnering with the churches.

[00:37:41.63] spk_2:
Right? And not only do we want the nonprofits to partner with churches, We want you, we wanted nonprofits to understand the uniqueness and the idiosyncrasies that that comes with partnering with Black Church, which is reason it was called Black Church a different kind of nonprofit. Yes. It is a non profit in the essence that it’s five oh one C three and you know, things of that nature or it might not even be five oh one C three. Um, it’s structured around providing those social services, um, but it does not necessarily operate as, you know, your typical nonprofit with a board and you know, and in programs and things of that nature. And so, um, in order to have an effective partnership, um, I wanted nonprofits to understand this is the essence of what Black Church is and these are the ways that she provide or create uh, successful institute, sustainable partnerships. While you’re trying to fulfill your mission for your non profit Oliver

[00:37:47.53] spk_3:
can we, can we go to you to acquaint us with some of the, the idiosyncrasies that Anita is referring to.

[00:39:17.82] spk_0:
Yes. One of the things we work with a ton of black churches and white churches, but one of the things that you want to do is visit the church, see what kind of things they’re doing. I mean, you can look at the announcement, say if they got kids doing announcements, they’re talking a lot about you. You know that church probably want to do things with youth. That’s their where their heart is at. So as you, as you meet people try to meet people in their leadership and if you can get a meeting with the pastor, go there, Get a meeting with the pastor. You talk 10%, let him talk 90 and asked him to share his vision in his heart for the community and that out of that conversation, you’re going to see the things that he’s excited about it that he want to do. And your role is when your partner with them engaging them. If you’re doing youth and maybe they’re passionate about prison ministry, you try to connect this to somebody that can help you with prison ministry and you bring a lot of credibility to them. And guess what if you work with you, he’ll connect you to a pastor that has a big, nice youth program. I want to work with you from the community. So you got to hear their heart and listen to them and you might have the greatest thing that you want to do, but it might not be a fit because just like people, churches have capacity for a few things that they can do well. And you got to seek those out when you engage them. Uh, and you have a lot more success when you do that.

[00:40:41.71] spk_3:
It’s time for a break. Send in blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with tools to build end to end digital campaigns that look professional, They’re affordable and keep you organized. So we’re talking about digital campaign marketing. Most marketing software is designed for large companies and comes with the enterprise level pricing. Send in Blue is priced for nonprofits. It’s an easy to use marketing platform that walks you through the steps of building a campaign like step by step, like playing, giving accelerators step by step, try out, sending blue and get a free month. Hit the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. It’s aptly named now you thought the baku but loads got obliterated when I didn’t invoke them after Tony’s take too, didn’t you? You were wondering, I’ve got your back, we’ve got boo koo but loads more time for partnerships with african american churches Anita, you want to elaborate on more of the idiosyncrasies folks should be aware of. I

[00:42:13.20] spk_2:
think, uh, no, I think Oliver is very, you know, and the reason why I had him on our panel is because he is the embodiment of the cross sectional of not only with black church and white church and also with black church and, and non profits. And so, um, I have to say like during our session, we did have someone that posed the question of the fact that they are not christian, uh, they’re not black and so they were concerned as to whether or not they would be able to, you know, attend church service. And uh, and I want to bring this out, Oliver because it just makes sense. Um, he said, you don’t have to be a christian to attend church, you can attend church, you don’t have to be a christian to attend church. And so you, you know, and so it’s just important that, um, just like a nonprofit has a mission. Churches have a mission, right? And so even though most of them, the main mission is saving souls and um, and, and, and provide, you know, providing the, spreading the gospel of jesus, that’s the main mission. But to Oliver’s point, you know, different churches have different sort of passion projects, just like the nonprofit has a passion project. So you’re not going to see the environmental non profit doing stuff with prison, right? Because that’s not their mission, There’s is saving the environment, Right? And so, um, it’s that research and that intentional research by visiting that church is where you will learn what’s a good fit for your organization. And then also partnering up

[00:42:54.70] spk_3:
Oliver, it sounds like the pastor is really the key, like sort of the ceo of the church. You have any other advice about getting his or her attention, You know, you said listen, listen 90% and talk 10% before we have twice as many years and only one or two layers in one mouth. But what other advice is, you know, like as you’re just trying to introduce yourself before you, before you, you know, before you, before you try to visit the church, just trying to get that,

[00:43:05.70] spk_0:

[00:43:07.05] spk_3:

[00:44:07.29] spk_0:
find out who, who some of the key leaders are. You can go to their website, uh, even look at the brochure and find out who some of the key leaders are and talk with them and see if they can give you a warm introduction to the pastor. Another one the key points is, And I made this mistake years ago, I’ve been working with churches 27 years, particularly black churches wherever the pastor points you too go follow up in that direction. Uh, because sometimes you want to just get to the past. Or maybe he might give you a phone conversation and say go talk to tony and you might not tony Know that Tony is his right hand man. He’s going to rely on tony or whether we should engage in his partnership and do this program. So sometimes people try to get to the pastor, but he might have someone else that he wants you to work with and then they’ll share the big idea. He’ll rely on them. So whatever the rescue send you going, that direction followed them.

[00:44:11.49] spk_3:
Anything else Anita you want to add about trying to make that, get that first introduction that, that break that ice.

[00:46:38.58] spk_2:
Well, just to keep in mind, um, uh, that depending on the denomination, which is brings in the intricacies of the fact of, you know, now and, and that’s just protestant, the whole protestant religion totally right. You got all these different denominations and sections and districts or whatever. Um, but that’s on the onus of the nonprofit professional to do their particular research and to understand that um, one to Oliver’s point when they pointed to that person to go ahead and and, and engage, but also know in different situations. The pastor may not necessarily be the like the decision maker, right? They maybe they might not be the one that is the one that may, he may be a part of it, right? But it might be the trustee board. Um, it might be the deacon’s board, it might be, you know, some other institution. It might be the superintendent. That is the one that really has the quote unquote power to engage the church in, in, in partnerships. And so, um, that’s just, you know, an additional thing to kind of consider. And then, of course, you know, and in that vein, as I’m thinking about it, that kind of, you know, put that, that might make the nonprofit professional a little bit more comfortable because it’s almost like talking to a board, right? It’s, it’s, you know, as the other nonprofits, like here’s the board and they’re the one that makes the decisions and some denominations are set up like that. Some are totally not the ending the beginning and the end Alpha and omega comes from the past. So it’s just just an additional step. Um, you know, once you’ve, you know, visit the church and maybe, you know, like I did a little research, checking out the website, maybe attending a service or maybe not attend the service, attend an event. The church is having a volunteer. Um, no one’s gonna turn around and turn away a volunteer, no matter what. Right. That’s, that’s not probably one or one. So, you know, volunteering for something and you, you kind of get a sense of who’s, you know, who’s the kind of the one that’s kind of running the programs and, and, and making the decisions. So yeah,

[00:46:46.68] spk_3:
I needed your work at uplift. Uh, it sounded to me like it was the intersection of black churches and technology.

[00:46:54.58] spk_2:
It is, it is um, it was it’s basically, uh, my new social entrepreneurship one out of the, um, my, my own sort of personal mission around digital inclusion and um, in digital inclusion efforts and the fact that I truly believe that churches um, can be a place of opportunity when we’re talking about closing the digital divide. Now, I’ll be honest with you Tony. I’m not only am I trying to get tech folks and nonprofits to see churches as places of opportunity. I’m trying to work on the churches as well to try to get them to understand that this is a different or new evolution of ministry for them. So that’s kind of kind of my personal mission and cause and ministry, if you will.

[00:48:14.87] spk_3:
So I trying to expand everybody’s circles where they find the intersection between them and and end up doing good work for for all the communities. Yes. All right. We still got some good time together. A good amount of time together. What, what, what else would either of you like? Talk about other questions you got from your session or something else you covered in your session that we haven’t talked about yet, throw it open to

[00:49:41.37] spk_0:
you. I think one of the things tony really helped get engaged is support them. I’ll give you a prime example of a couple of quick examples when, when the virus hit and shut down everything. We partner with a technology group to bring hotspots online, uh, notebooks with urban black churches And got them online so they can get giving online. They didn’t have the technology, they didn’t know what to do, but we’ll never helped 40 of them. So guess what? I can pick up the phone anytime and call those pastors directly and say, hey, let’s look at doing this. I didn’t ask him for anything, didn’t want anything, but if you can help serve them another example, uh, it was a water shortage in Mississippi pastor said Oliver can you help get some water? I said, well let me send you a check and said no, no don’t send me a check because I got to go get the water. I need you to bring over the cases of water. So guess what? I went to Sam’s couldn’t get as much water because only so much in the car and I can push it. But guess what? Now our relationship is deeper because I was able to help a need that he was trying to fulfill to take a truckload of water down. Uh, and then, so now when I call them up with something that we want to do with his church or in the neighborhood, he’ll take that call and listen and more be more aptitude to work with us because we support them in the time of meat.

[00:50:29.36] spk_3:
Hey build trust. Yes, he had, he had a problem and you had a solution that you know, that that builds trust, I’m sure needed your degree. You know, this if you’re going to approach any of this or any other, any relationship, you know, transactional e I, you know, we want to get this out of it. We’re here for six months and then we’re moving on with some other project, then you shouldn’t even bother. I mean, but if you want to, but if you want to build a relationship, not that you have to be working together forever either. But if you’re gonna look at it as a transaction versus opening the door to a relationship, you’re, you’re short changing yourself the church, you’re trying to partner with the program. You’re trying to expand or build. You know, it’s it’s

[00:50:30.31] spk_2:
and the people you’re trying

[00:51:02.96] spk_3:
to serve and the people you hope to help. It’s not a it’s not a one and done. You know, it’s a we’re trying to build a relationship here. We don’t we don’t know the ways we might be able to work together in the future. You know, we got an idea how we could do what we can do now in this next six months or a year. But who knows what the ensuing years could bring. You know, it’s just basic relationship building. The same thing you do with your volunteers, your your donors. You know, you don’t look at them as transactions as a T. M. S. You get something out and then walk away. So, same thing here with any relationship, whether it’s with an individual or uh, an institution, like a black church. All right, that’s right.

[00:54:01.34] spk_2:
So yeah, I agree with you Tony, I agree with you so much tony I think I said that was more into the essence of why I wanted to do this. Um I think um so another reason as to why I presented this to anti china had to do with um an actual project that I did as a digital inclusion fellow um and in connection with the Rainbow push Coalition, and we were trying to establish some digital inclusion um programming at churches here in Atlanta. And it was because um the organization just did not understand each other well that the program itself for the initiative itself really didn’t experience the level of success that it could have. Um because on the church side, uh they weren’t fully educated as to what he was trying to be done. And then on the nonprofit side, they really, um, honestly did not understand the fully understand the idiosyncrasies of black church. Um, and I’ll give you a small example. Um, one of the, one of the criteria for the churches that was in the program, um, was that they needed to fundraise, um, a specific amount of dollars, and then the nonprofit was going to match that fundraisers, and then that was supposed to be, um, not quote unquote given, but sort of giving access to the fellow so that the fellow can use that those funds to build out the program. Well, as I was sitting there as one of the fellows listening to, you know, listening to how this work, I said, there’s a whole time kind of shaking my head. I said, you can’t do that with black shirts, you can’t just tell them to just fundraise for a specific a specific event and not run it through the sort of proper channels where everyone, including the leadership of the church is on board, um in order to in order to make it happen. And so what happened was, is that it kind of fell by the wayside because the church is was like, uh huh, what are you, what are you talking about? Fun. What do you mean? Like in addition to my ties and offerings or something different, something, whatever. And so unfortunately, go

[00:54:03.37] spk_3:
ahead. I need you to wrap up with with your takeaway from that. Okay. We just have a minute left. What’s your takeaway?

[00:54:09.44] spk_2:
So the takeaway is, is it’s just still important to to get that, do that research and and begin to understand one another. And it doesn’t just say, oh, you have my demographic. So let’s just do it and it takes time like you said, to build that relationship troubles.

[00:54:28.84] spk_3:
All right, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you. Need to leave Chief digital specialist at Anita uplifts LLC and Oliver Richmond, President Kingdom Partners, Anita. Oliver, thank you very much.

[00:54:38.71] spk_2:
Thank you.

[00:54:40.64] spk_0:
Take care now.

[00:56:07.84] spk_3:
Thank you very much. And thank you for being with Tony-Martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 ntc 2021 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o next week. CRM selection and new websites as our 21 NTC coverage continues. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. And by sending Blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in Blue, our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Yeah, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty You with me next week for nonprofit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for June 29, 2018: Storytelling II & Test Quest


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Miriam Brosseau: Storytelling II
Building on last week, Miriam Brosseau has on-the-ground tips for digital storytelling that break down your internal silos and resolve organizational frustrations. She’s like your storytelling therapist, from See3 Communications. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)



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Nick Garcia & Jack Hilson: Test Quest
Email, landing page and digital ad testing: What it is; how to do it; and what to do with your results. Nick Garcia and Jack Hilson are with Mal Warwick Donordigital. (Also from the Nonprofit Technology Conference)


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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of our throw piau sis, if we issued a joint statement that you missed today’s show storytelling too, building on last week mirriam brousseau has on the ground tips for digital storytelling that breaks down your internal silos and resolves organizational frustrations. She’s like your storytelling therapist from c three communications that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and test quest email landing page and digital ad testing. What is it how to do it? And what do you do with your results? Nick garcia and jack ilsen are from now warwick donordigital responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by telus durney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream, tony dahna em a slash tony tell us here is storytelling, too, with mirriam brousseau. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference in new orleans. We’re wrapping up our coverage of day two with mirriam brousseau welcome mirriam hey, tony, great to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you. Thank you. This interview with mirriam is sponsored by network for good is the use easy to use dahna management and fund-raising self where for non-profits mirriam is chief information officer at sea three communications it’s e three and her workshop topic is going to be talking about you like you’re not here. Your workshop topic is bust those silos exclamation mark how your digital storytelling khun build internal collaboration welcome again hey, uh, what? Uh, what’s, the overarching lesson that we should be learning like what’s the give us the take away the biggest takeaway about digital storytelling and non-profits not collaborating as well as they might internally. Yeah, absolutely so the way that a lot of our non-profit organizations are structured is intended to be convenient for the organization itself. How convenient for you built around efficiencies and and all of these more easy to manage things that don’t necessarily lead to a whole lot of trust or collaboration. And we’re living in an age today where everything is built around the u customer around the user around that individual person and so storytelling is a great mechanism for humanizing our organization’s overall and starting to build that that supporters centris ity and thinking about how we can shift our operations to be more about the people that we serve in the people who might make our impact possible very articulate. I do it again because we’ve been talking about donor-centric city for i don’t know, ten years or something on there still organizations that may feel they’ve mastered it, but i think our our yeah deceiving themselves, they’re still built around themselves and their saddles. How do we know? Okay, how do we know if we are one of the organizations? And i’m talking about the things we’ve mastered mastered it? We think we’ve broken down silos and we’re donor-centric but we’re not out of one of the symptoms we might be experiencing. How do we know? Yeah, well, you definitely feel it internally if there’s hierarchical management that, you know, really a sense of of control slowness of tackling the same kind of issues over and over without really getting at the root problem. It was like the first time we’ve done this thing. And we’ve done it a hundred times. Yes, yes, precisely so that and then you can also see it in your messages, of course. And so something that c three does a lot with our clients is will calculate what what we call a supporter inclusion score where you look at a single piece of messaging and basically tally up the number of times that you have mentioned the organization in some way, the name of the organization, the ceo, the name of a programme, whatever it is on dh, then you tally up the times that you’re using the word you or you’re referencing the word donor or volunteer or using their name, for instance, and you divide one by the other and see how closely you get two one for so, which would represent more of a partnership. Or if you’re if you’re above one, then you’re really demonstrating that that donor, that person you’re reaching out tio is the center of the story represented through that through that language. You and your yeah, very good words. Yeah. Working in your promotion and marketing. Yes. Shifting that book, it’s just a little bit. Okay. And now how is digital storytelling going to help us. So, there’s, we recommend sort of three step process for thinking about this. Ok, s o the first part of it is a three step process is like click candy for radio. Oh, yeah, you were goingto neo-sage okay, i got you click bait, ready and raring to go for you. So the three steps or the following, first of all, be sure that you are telling the whole story because a lot of non-profits focus on telling the story of the direct beneficiary and not a whole lot else. But when you zoom out and you think about who are all of the characters in our story, who are all the people that we really need in order to make our impact possible? It’s the volunteers it’s, thie, it’s, it’s the donor’s themselves who were usually talking to. But we could also tell their own stories. Their engagement with our missions is impacting them as people in a way more holistic storytelling. Yeah, absolutely. I’m putting a different word on it not but the whole story totally zoom. I’ll get a picture of all those characters on dh. Then think about if you were to position one of those characters as the center of the story is the hero. What would need to happen in eternally in order to gather that only one of those characters and the volunteers? Yeah, the programme. The programme officer? Yeah, doing deliveries up. Ok, so yeah. Ok. Andi, what do you got? Elsa? Right. So first of all, it zoom out, put that right. So zoom out until the whole story and think about it. Think about what are the what are the how do you support that story by through whatever internal processes and that’s that’s the really the clincher there? Because when you’re in a silent organisation to get a siloed culture and culture will eat your storytelling strategy for breakfast, lunch and dinner very well nourished someone recorded you saying that. Okay? I don’t know who was. I’ve done a lot of interviews, but someone said, you know, you know i’m not sure she remembered where she hurt you. One of the sessions i was in someone said culture will eat your strategy for lunch. Oh, yes. Cultures the hungry because you recorded you’ve been quoted on not brother radio. You know you made it i wish i wish you could have contributed. Well, now, the way now we have the attribution. Diego came from that’s great. So so the only the the peace of our arsenal that we have against culture, a culture and and shifting towards that that storytelling you centric strategy is process. Really. So how do we build it into our meetings and our interactions with everybody else in the organization? In order to move in that direction and sort of humanize on and then the final steps. So if you’ve named all of your you’ve gotten that holistic view, you’ve named all your characters you’ve centered one as a hero, building into the process internally, how you captured that story and then finally treating your colleagues the way that you would any good donorsearch a thank you, sell them, tell them the impact of what happened acknowledged that their contribution to this particular story had this had this effect on you personally or on the way that the story went out in the world or the impact of that story going further out. So, yeah, humanizing and putting those folks at the centre, it pays dividends altum i love the idea of thinking of your fellow colleague as a donor? I mean, how how would you treat a donor? Yeah, this search they’re making their character in that story. They’re making a meaningful investment in the work that you’re doing and should be acknowledged for that. Okay, all right, time for a break pursuant. Their newest paper is the digital donation revolution, thanks to amazon’s one click to buy and recommendations based on purchases you’re online donors have higher expectations of you when they give online doesn’t matter that you don’t have amazons budget and expertise you know you need to measure up, get the digital donation revolution it’s on the listener landing page tony dahna slash pursuing radio now back to storytelling too. So let’s see how we, uh, let me break this down too. Wait till i tell the whole story way got to get out of this mindset that it’s all just about the person who’s enjoying the outcome with the right. How do we do this in storytelling? We want to do storytelling in like three minutes. I’m think of a video. Yeah, am i being too narrow? First of all, we’ll use a digital. Storytelling? Yeah. Do you mean beyond video? Oh, for sure, for sure. Okay. Well, kind of kind of content. You’re absolutely any kind of content that your parents know that you’re capturing. Tio talk about your your mission in your impact. Okay, so then how do we what advice do you have for starting the starting to be more holistic in the storytelling? Yeah, so i think, first of all, just literally listening out all of the people that are required in order to make your impact possible and and thinking about one of the things that we also recommend organizations do is think about what’s the intersection between your mission and that person’s aspirations for themselves. So our missions are very forward facing. We’re trying to change something. We’re trying to tackle some injustice and make the world better. So it’s all about the future. And so when we think about those different characters, we want to think about what they envisioned for themselves, for their future and how what kind of person do they aspire to be? And if we can speak to that speaks to that intersection of like, how does engaging with our mission helped these? People become the kind of person that they want to be, then we’re going to have a winning formula in our storytelling very esoteric question, yeah, so let me let me bring it down worse than often example, yeah, so it can be so, but i think it actually makes things a lot easier on us because it’s not about developing necessarily a whole user persona and getting it demographics and like, i don’t care if they shop at target or if they listen to spotify, i care about who they want to be. So for instance, we’ve done a lot of work with the make a make a wish foundation, and some of the characters are in their story are not just the wish kid who’s, the beneficiary of their work, but for instance, thie social worker who was referring that child for a wish, what kind of person does he or she wants to be? Well, they they got into this business in order to serve children and make their lives better and be able tio provided it in a way that they that the family’s night might not be able to if the kids going through a tough time and so in what ways does engaging with make a wish, help them reach that aspirational goal? Um and so when you put that social worker at the centre of the story and talk about their lives and what they’re seeing every day and then saying and what they bring to your organization, how we overlook how we overlap exactly, yeah, and so when so then the story becomes, well, i’m a social worker, and this is what i deal with every day, and when i get to tell a child that i’m referring them for a wish and that this is going teo, you know, it’s it’s, it humanizes your mission, it’s it exponentially expand your impact because suddenly you’re not just serving this single beneficiary it’s absolutely everybody who’s touched by that experience has an impact there being affected by that and it’s changing it’s, changing and transforming their lives and in meaningful ways to and so when you tell that story, it not only bus up things inside, where suddenly i have to talk to the medical outreach team in order to capture that story in the first place, but you’re also opening up a brand new door for other social workers for other people who see themselves in that kind of aspirational role, tio walk through and say like and say, oh, well, i want to be that so you’re not you’re telling the story from their perspective from from the perspective of each of the people involved in this handing over the mike being authentic about it service chain, or if you if you will oppcoll tell me more way our next step, yeah, i think so. I’ll give you another. I’ll give you another exercise because the venn diagram overlap thing is kind of esoteric, so s so when you do have that that list of characters and just list as many as you can be as specific as possible, one exercise that we walk through people through is to do a very simple mad lib you space, which this so the first. So the first space is you take this particular action, you do this thing which and then named the impact. So you, for instance, the social worker, you refer children to make a wish, which does you know all these wonderful things for that child and their family, and honing in on the u which language for each of those characters, is a really powerful exercise, because first of all, you don’t get to name your organization and you don’t get to say you, you don’t get to talk about your programs, you have to go straight from that supporter to the impact that they make and your organization is the witch it’s, the it’s, the means it’s, the facilitator it’s the mechanism by which that that person is making their impact in the world. There’s not even name. Yeah, yeah. So that’s that’s part of that that donor-centric city, that kind of shifting that perspective, you language. It always starts with a u and so an exercise of simple is that can be kind of the core of your messaging for that particular persona or audience segments. Okay, very that’s, great it’s, super fun and it’s. Great to kind of get out of the box with thinking about that for different, for different folks and to really, like, hone in on it and on give it some poetry about and there was this the way in which we make them the hero of the story it’s a it’s. A great way to start. This is the starting, you know, we don’t. Yeah. Okay. We’re not quite there. Yeah, okay. Yeah. All right. So let’s, let’s go to that way. So any one of these characters in the chain of service, any one of these important parts in that chain can now be the focus of the story and how they interact with our organization and our service beneficiaries? Yeah. Okay, give me give me another client story would make a wish or another one that this is you’ve seen. You’ve seen impact. Yeah, absolutely. All the love story of so many great stories. Well, i’m going to give you another make-a-wish example, just because that’s, they’ve got some great, powerful stuff and that’s the first thing that came to mind. So in some of this work there’s a minnesota chapter of make-a-wish made this beautiful video in which they positioned one of their volunteers is the hero of the story. And instead of necessarily focusing on the on the wish kid and it was this story in which the child himself had a condition in which he was unable to speak and really move around a whole lot. And his wish was to have a door really to be able to go out into his backyard and and see beyond the four walls of his house, which immediately just like tugs at your heartstrings. So but telling his story in a way, is not terribly relatable. It’s not i can’t. I can’t really empathize with that situation and it’s actually a little uncomfortable to even think about that and so repositioning story, they they put the hero as the contractor, the builder who actually came in and made that possible, and they talked to him. They talked to the people that he worked with, and i think it they showed the emotional and just sort of life affirming impacts of that being involved in this wish had on that person who’s like this, you know, fifty some year old contract huge e-giving door who’s just building a door, breaking a wall on drilling a door. But he’s the hero, you say he’s, the hero of the story and you watch that and it is so it’s, so emotional and powerful and just draws you in in a way that the story of the wish kid never could and part of what i think this this kind of mentality forces us to do is to recognize that everybody’s got a story everybody’s being transformed by these little moments. And what i love about about storytelling about shifting messaging in this way, is that it? It builds a culture of noticing and of paying attention. Yes. Being intentional. Yes. Paying e-giving attention to others. Yes. How did that story gets told? Was it was it through video that was through video? They had a video version of it. They also published it as as a block post. But it’s ah, yeah, they had a couple of different versions, but the video itself was was the most powerful representation. Okay, we, uh, just got a note that the whole point five o’clock and we were misinformed. So listen, i need another. I need another ten minutes. Can i get ten minutes from the security? You could see that we’re on camera. Right? Gonna get can i get them? Really? I mean, i got a fifteen minute, you know, we’re going to do this for another ten minutes, okay? I don’t know what the time of day is, but i know that. Mirriam and i have been talking for almost sixteen minutes, and i need another ten. Is that okay? Wait, don’t go anywhere, and i’m sorry, we we didn’t know that we were told that, yeah, okay, thank you, little side conversation. Just have the security, gentlemen. Thank you, thank you, sir. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’m not cutting us off. Fundez live, live, live, recorded in every story, have to have that challenge that has to be overcome, so this is us on the other side. All right, so that was a video story that contract. I love that it’s. Just the guy. We just came to break the door. All right, build a door. Yeah. Let’s, keep going, let’s. Keep going, people. This idea of treating your colleagues the way you would treat a donor you said mohr. But that part resonated with me and we flush it out a lot more. Sure, we just lost the light. Okay, garrett, we’re losing the light. The hole is closing. Okay, it’ll come back. Garrett says it’ll come back on. Okay, there we go. All right. Non-profit radio perseveres. I don’t care what happens. Yeah. So we’re going nowhere going nowhere. Nobody’s going to take us that? Yeah. I mean, i think that heart of especially when you’re working in a silo toe organization. It’s very easy to get caught up in what’s wrong and focus on the tough stuff and want to fix all the problems and anybody who gets involved in non-profit work is a fixer, right? That’s, our that’s, our inclination. We want to make things better. And i think sometimes that we end up losing sight of what actually working. And it’s been shown in all kinds of organizational studies and with with regards to our the way that we change ourselves. The whole positive psychology movement, for instance, is built on this. Premise that if you start with what’s working, you can actually demonstrate more progress more quickly and, you know, put together these sort of lasting change efforts. And part of starting with what’s. Working is is acknowledging the good stuff and saying thank you and being appreciative. And it just changes. It uplifts the whole culture. Is there a client story that you can share that where you saw you saw this make a difference in our organization? Yeah, i mean, i think so it goes hand in hand a little bit with building that storytelling piece into the process as well, these three elements of kind of knowing all your characters, building in the process to gather those stories and then reporting back on the impact and saying, thank you s o we had ah, ah, a little while back, we did a strategy engagement with hillel international, they have a they offer one of many versions of ah, trip for young jews to go visit israel and and build that a nation with it with the country and the people, and they were having a hard time differentiating themselves from the other providers and sort of saw it as a marketing challenge. And what we’ve learned in what we’ve learned that c three is that most marketing challenges are actually internal alignment challenges that can be that, like, with a few little internal tweaks, you can actually do a lot better. And so part of what we built into that strategy into their process. Was first of all regular story gathering moments between them in the united states and the trip providers in the inn in israel s o that they were getting those stories of these transformative moments that were happening for both the kid’s on the trips themselves, and for the and for the trip leaders on all of these different perspectives, right of all these different characters in the story, and as part of that it’s also there’s also an element of just reporting back on this is how we use that story. And this is the reach that that it had and like, thank you, keep it up. And so what happened after we worked with hillel international on that is made a few internal alignment shifts got them to kind of rejigger their messaging. So it felt a little less stock photo and a little less advertising on more story oriented. And they increased their recruitment for the trip by forty percent in a year. Outstanding. Alright, what what? What are some of the questions you got in? Uh, in this in this work in the workshop? Yeah, a lot about pushback from leadership. I’m interested in what was amazing in the feedback you got from non-profits oh, yeah, yeah, there’s in the audience yeah, i mean, we got we got some great little anecdotes of just like those tiny little shifts that people can start making in in order to start building this this more aligned human centric with the culture and some of them some of them are technological fixes, their great organizations out there that are using slack channels capture stories and to share back the impact of the work that they’re doing and the importance of everybody kind of being on the same page around storytelling and digital communications and all of that, which is wuebben so deeply through all aspects of our organization that it actually becomes this really great vehicle for tying everybody together. You said there were some leadership leadership pushback, yeah, so one of the, uh, some of the big questions were just like, well, what if leadership doesn’t? Buy-in, um, what do we do if i if i asked to sit in if i’m the marketing person and i asked to sit in on the development meeting and i’m ruffling somebody’s feathers because i’m on their turf? Then what do? I do about that. And our advice was really well, first of all, don’t make it about busting silos, that’s, that’s not an end in itself. There’s there’s, some other bigger mission and story to be told here on dh. Secondly, start from that point of strength. Start by asking their advice. No. And going there and and, you know, kind of making their idea if you can. But but going in with a with a sort of ah listening, learning, pasture, a supposed toe. I’m going to do this thing and knock down these walls and so it’s a little bit more of that appreciative stance. And starting again from the assumption that everybody has something to offer, everybody has a story to tell. Start with what you have exactly. Okay, start from strength and build from there. We still have another couple minutes left. It got very quiet. You notice there’s? No. Yeah, but in the din of the exhibit, flora’s has been eliminated. Not just gone. Not just quiet. Are quiet. Indeed. What else can we say about this? Er there’s. A couple more minutes. What more did you share in your your session? Yeah, i mean we shared a so there was the buses silas session. We also did michael hoffmann, founder of three, say, three communications and stroll before yeah, exactly s o he and i also let a session that we entitled digital minimalism, which is a which is a related kind of emerging idea that we have open that we’ve been playing with, which is really about this idea that s o thie middle melisa movement has sort of taken hold it’s gotten a foothold in the culture. People are excited about the idea of cleaning their closets and, you know, focusing in on the stuff that really matters and what does it look like? Applied to digital specifically for non-profits? And so what we talked about there was that you may associate minimalism with this idea of less stuff and that’s that’s important that’s definitely part of it, but really, the focus of the minimalist philosophy is that the stuff that you do have should be meaningful and should should be a connection to something t joy into purpose and all of this kind of stuff rather than getting in the way. Mission exactly, exactly commission for sure so is so four. Non-profits in the digital space thie equivalents, the digital minimalism is essentially this idea that, you know, the digital that we use should should thin the line between our supporters and the potential for them to make impact through our organization. There’s a lot of digital detritus out there where there’s a lot of sort of shouting about the stuff that we do and there’s a lot of things that we create just because that’s what? We’ve always weighed it, we need it. Yeah, and all this stuff. Yeah, okay, so did you get pushed back at that session to neo-sage from leaders or people questioning whether my leadership is goingto really be willing to shed? I mean, it could be you could be talking about zoho you’re shitting me, big parts of our communication, it’s challenging panels. Oh, for sure for sure it’s not serving, serving our greater need are serving our our mission. Yeah, it forces you to check a lot of assumptions and i think there’s there’s plenty. I mean, absolutely that there’s there’s plenty of organizations that are, for instance, you know, creating a dozen pdf reports that then go online because it’s written into the grants that they have to create a report and put it online. And so what do you do about that? Like theirs? That’s, that’s. A place where you have to kind of reevaluate whether this this philosophy is going to work in every area, or whether it’s just going to be something that focuses you in the places where it’s most plausible. Okay, uh, give us another two minutes of of the brousseau download. No man. Little community session. Maybe other questions that were asked. Yeah, well, i think a lot of the i would i would almost summarize both sessions. You’re going to get the total download and like a sentence hold right. I would almost summarized both sons both sessions as being about this idea of it’s. Not what you do, it’s. What? What you do does. Okay, it’s, not it’s. Not about what? What it’s impacted exactly. It’s it. And they end that. That idea that you know, non-profits do amazing things. We deliver great programs. There are there’s, there’s, webinars and services and meals being serves, an animal’s being saved and all of that. But really, the and we want to talk about all that. Great. Stuff, right? And put it out in the world and say, like, look, please pay attention to you know, we’re living this attention economy, but when we, when we take a step back and talk about not what we do but what we make possible and what’s through our actions were allowing to happen that transformation, then first of all, like it’s got that more sort of visionary feel to it, it’s, more it’s, more welcoming and approachable. I can relate to it because it’s not like this thing that may or may not have something to do with me, it’s not sort of it doesn’t become a barrier at all, and it keeps us sort of keeps us mission focused like that’s what we’re that’s what we’re here for, and it keeps us kind of owning that those outcomes and realizing that, like with all of this stuff that we’re doing it’s not about the thing it’s, about what we make possible through that thing. And if that’s the message that we can keep coming back to you through the stories that we tell and the content that we creates and the people that we can actually, then there’s hope there is. We’ll leave it there and that’s a perfect place to leave it. Thank you very much. Mirriam. Awesome pleasure durney persevering through the we’re closing. She mirriam brousseau and she’s chief information officer chief innovation officer. I’m sorry, mate. No, you’re right, it’s. Just a innovation. What i say information. I’m a fan of that too. She’s mirriam brousseau and she’s, the chief innovation officer at sea three communications this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits and you are with twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur, thanks so much. Let’s. Take a break. Wagner cpas check them out at weinger cps dot com if you’re on a fiscal year, it may be coming to a close on the thirtieth of this month. You need an audit or just your nine ninety regular is it? Take a look at their sight, then use the contact form or pick up the phone and talk to partner eat each tomb i’m urging you go in real life after you check him out online. Wagner, cps dot com now let’s, go to test quest welcome to tony martignetti non-profit. Radio coverage of eighteen ntc that’s the non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen in new orleans this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits my guest now are nick garcia and jack ilsen nick is senior account executive at mall warwick donordigital and jack ilsen is exactly the same senior account executive male warwick donordigital times two on dh nick and jack’s topic is the test quest optimizing your donor’s journey. Gentlemen, welcome to non-profit radio. Thank you. Thanks. Good. Have you, uh, okay, the donor journey let’s start with you, jack. What are what are donors not getting? I mean, i’m sorry. What are non-profits not getting quite right about this donordigital the experience. Yeah, well, you know, oftentimes when you’re in the poor poppet for-profit space ah, you’re thinking a lot about user experience, right? And where someone’s going to go, what they’re going to click on what they’re going to see, you know, and a lot of non-profits don’t have the time or think that they don’t have the time to capacity to really think through every little piece, so they’ll be not taking precautions or doing tests. And just rolling out what feels right to them. And so we kind of talk about how easy it can be and how simple it khun b to perform a p tests and rolled them out in your program in different ways. So we try to make it as easy as possible for as many different types of non-profits it’s possible. Okay, okay, so this s o jack, this does not have to say i’m sorry, nick. This does not have to be a complicated process, right? Exactly. Be testing is pretty simple thing. Exactly. Yeah, it is. And there are a number of ways that you can start, you know, very low level that doesn’t require a complex data management or anything like that. So i think we’re going to kind of run the full gamut of, you know, examples and things like that testing for for organizations that are just starting out, but also cem advanced testing concepts we really tried teo dig deep and and figure out some unique ideas of things that folks may not be thinking to test that we’ve seen in our work with our clients have some big impacts. Okay, well, we’re gonna do that here too. I don’t want you holding back on like we’re gonna describe what you’re gonna do talk about in your seminar. Sure you’re gonna do it here. I’ll do it. So you’re going. You were talking about the email landing page and digital ad testing. Yeah, let’s. Start with e mail. Is it one of you mohr expert in email than the other or equally fluent? I would say equally fluid. Okay, well, let’s, stick with you, nicholas. We’re there for now. Uh, what? What? Wait, what should we be testing? Yeah. What? I think when we think about email testing, we generally split that out into the email envelope the content of the e mail, which includes the copy, the design and then what’s the email envelope. So the email envelope is the centre name s oh, it’s, basically, what you see about the email before you open and a preview exactly when you’re so there’s the preview? Yes. So that includes the sender name. So you know, one example of ah really simple entry level test is whether you include the organization name in the from line of your email. You know, conventional wisdom tells you that, you know, you may want to include the organization names so that people know immediately who they’re hearing from. However, for a lot of our clients, we’ve tested out of that, and we are rolling out with just the ceo name because we show that that has had a significant lift in open rates, for whatever reason. So that’s that’s a really simple test. Another thing related to the way we exhaust everything that’s in the envelope. What’s on the envelope. Yes. So they’re sure we hit every. Yeah. Yeah. So what detail here? Yeah, absolutely. Do not hold out on us. So there’s the center name there’s the subject line, which is another important one bonem constantly testing that one another one. Is that that preview to pre header? Yes. Head of pre header. Yes. Oh, one of one of our recommended tests there is that we’ve been seeing a big lift with folks who are actually including a blank preh header. So if you notice when you’re when you’re scrolling through your inbox, you know, almost every e mail you received has pre header text. Those that do not now are standing out more. So so. We’re seeing, you know, just little that white space may exactly right. So and things like emojis and the subject line just, you know, things that really make the email envelope pop out. Nine box. Jack, do we assume that people are scrolling through this inbox on their phones? Now is most female is read by phone? Absolutely. You know, i think it’s been depending on the organization, you could estimate anywhere from thirty toe. Fifty percent of your donations could come in through mobile. So it’s, really important to not only be looked thinking about maybe your email envelope and how that appears on mobile, especially as you’re scrolling through very quickly, but also making sure that everything is mobile optimized and works well for for those folks who are looking at their phones. Ok? Eso we exhausted the envelope. Yeah, let’s. Stick with you, jack. Go inside the envelope now to the message itself. What should we be testing in that? What can we test in? Oh, so many things. Well, and we talk a little bit about a few different things, so we will go from maybe email format. Tio general design tests. Template tests that sort. Of thing copy tests weighs a email format. What what? Different formats? I’m sure i know, but i can’t think of them sure and sing them, but i was sure, yeah, and it may be going from plain text message tio ah, regular template that you might use every day kind of thing to see, and maybe the results of your tests between those two things is that you don’t get a significant lift for one over the other grand, and that may tell you that you don’t want to use plain text or it may tell you that you want to use it interchangeably at different times when it seems effective. So ok, i guess use of use of graphics embedded video do we? What do we know about how embedded video does in a female vs there’s a link to click through? Wei have research on that? Well, it depends on what you’re trying to get. If you want someone to donate video doesn’t help all that much. Of course it may influence click through, but it it probably won’t up your response rate very much it may actually, you may see a decline as faras response rate. Because people are just trying to go to your donation page to view that video and then immediately going okay, okay. It’s. Great for cultivation, though. Great. Very getting folks too. Bedded video abetted video. We’re talking about video eyes great for cultivation. I’m sorry. Yes. Yeah. Video is great. Okay. Okay. I was just trying to draw a distinction between embedded where you do. We have to do what you can watch video in an e mail. Can you? Yeah. You have it. Yes. It’s possible. Although there’s specific types of coding more more complex five and that’s. What made it? So i made him work. So if you get into technology issues with right versus just providing a link and it doesn’t work across all browser’s. Okay. Okay. That’s. Hesitation. All right. So you gotta be very circumspect about that. You’re not okay. All right. Uh, what else? What else in the message hyre in the inside the message itself. Jacket should be so, so designed. Tests generally, it may be, you know, like we had talked about overall template. But it may be something as simple as maybe black and white photos. More stark kind of imagery. Sad versus happy, that sort of thing that, you know, many children let’s, say your international relief organization. And and you have lots of folks of single children alone or lots of children. Together. I’m trying to see what’s more effective. If focusing in on one individual is going toe, actually pull at the heartstrings of your owners. Anything else in the e mail cell for we we met our way to the landing page? Um, i think a couple other things that we’ve seen valuable in-kind email testing is just the length of the copy itself. I think this is this is an area where a lot of organizations hesitates sometimes because they have been messaging with a similar length for a long time, and they meet they may feel hesitant to move away from that, but i think it’s important, especially were scared. Exactly. Yeah, on and it’s not an easy thing to test necessarily, you know, taking the same messaging and boiling it down from, you know, six long paragraphs to a really, you know, small bite-sized email is not an easy task. However, you know, i think it’s an important one, because especially in today’s environment and just the way people are used to processing information now is in much smaller chunks, right? So we’ve been seen, you know, a good degree of lifts with just, you know, testing short message versus long message, you know, just things like that about the time of day. Yeah, exactly. Right. Eso there’s yeah. Time of day. Day of week. You know, some some of our clients, are you there even segmenting out, you know, certain folks that are more responsive to messages at different dates and times, things like that. So, you know, they’re they’re so many, you know, complex options for testing and segmentation. Ok, ok. Are we on the landing page now, cheryl? Goodwill that okay? Okay. We’ll stick with you for a minute. Okay? What should we start there? Yeah. So, i mean, we talked about video for a moment. You know, that was one test that we ran on a landing page where, you know, one of our clients felt like they had a really captivating video that had a donation ascot the end, and they thought it would be much more compelling. And this this was at a time when, you know, video was really hot and a lot of non-profits were using that to dr engagement, so they thought, okay? Let’s test video versus a static image on a donation page and it actually suppressed response video did significantly on the donation page, you know? So i guess what the lesson there was that you know, you don’t want to necessarily distract the destruction was in my mind exactly. I mean, the weather is so video rich now visual in rich video, especially, but, you know, people go there for a single purpose. You don’t want them distracted. Exactly. And i think i think that that guy has a lot of our thinking around. Landing page optimization to is that you know you’re you’re breaking up the information on the page into a very concise headline. A very concise subhead. You have to keep in mind that most people are not going to absorb all of the content all the copy on any given page. So you want to, you know, really think about how to structure the page so that all the information is there for folks who want to absorb it all. But also that at a glance, they’re getting what they want so that they can, you know, move on and convert. Okay, okay. Um, jack, anything else about the landing page we should talk about? Yeah, i mean, more toe next point. And you brought up a good point as well. Tony, that, uh, and perfect host shot out. People are on their phones often doing these sorts of things. So making something inaccessible in that way, not just design wise. I i say this all the time and maybe it’s just being in the industry. But if i go on a web page and it is not mobile optimized, i will just leave. And so you you absolutely have to make sure that sort of frustrating. Now twenty eighteen, you have to scroll the sea, though, to see so much and it and it jumps and bounces and windows are not windows, but pictures disappear. Yeah, yeah. Don’t do it, please. Yeah, well, in in one test that that i’ve done with a few clients is adding tap oppcoll buttons to donation pages or action pages. So let’s say you go and there’s a tiny radio button and you have to zoom into the page to try to click it. And you’re clicking the wrong thing and it brings you to another page. So we tested somewhere else. Yeah, exactly. We call them fat finger buttons at some points to make sure that, you know it’s. Easier for folks to decide. I want to give you twenty five dollars instead of ten dollars, you know? Okay. All right. So that’s the landing page? Yeah. You were going to talk about digital ads, okay, testing digital ads. We’re nick. Where were all these digital ads? What kinds of retesting we’re talking social media ads. So facebook ads? Definitely. I would say that’s, where we start with most of our clients and definitely the google network is probably the thie biggest platform that we use for digital advertising. Okay, got to take a break. Tell us you’ve heard the talis moughniyah lll from lee elementary school, where they’re getting a monthly donation from tello’s for credit card processing of a parent owned company. You know you need more revenue. It can be recurring revenue every single month. Ask the people close to your organization who owned businesses to switch to tell us for their credit card processing. It started at tony dahna slash tony, tell us for the video now back to test quest with nick garcia and jack ilsen how do we tell testing with digital ads? They’re really two components, right? So you have the creative and you have the copy associated with an ad, so in most cases, we’re testing multiple versions of both. The image and the copy at a given time on and then essentially combining the two once you have a winner in each category to roll out the absolute best image and the absolute best copy you can to the widest audience, i think that’s the simplified version of okay, well, we can we can go into more detail, but what, you don’t hold out? What what percentage of your audience would you would you test with? I mean, you gotta have against tens of thousands of fans on your page to make this worthwhile. Yeah, well, i mean, we’re no, not fans know, but you’re mean, depending on the dollar amount, right in-kind so yeah. So when we talk about percentages for testing, we usually start with the budget number composed to the audience. Yeah. So for instance, you know, if it’s the first foray into testing and we’re looking at a budget of ten thousand dollars, then i would say, you know, dedicating at least three thousand of that to the initial testing before the final roll out would be, you know, a decent amount, you know? So you wantto probably dedicate in the neighborhood of twenty five. To thirty five percent of your budget to that initial testing. Otherwise, everybody only a thousand duvette appropriate, right? Exactly. So you want you want you want it to be scaleable, right? Okay, how about let’s? Go back to my erroneous question, but i’ll find somewhere it fits and let’s, go back to email a percentage of your email lists would you test with before you roll out the ultimate to the white fulwider story in when we actually have a tool for this on dh. This will work with ads as well. But we have a fruit free tour online on a website. The bell warwick it’s m double d agency. Dot com slash lab w d agency dot com slash lab. Okay, crack receding. Yeah, and there’s there’s a bunch of different tools on there, but one of them is a sample size calculator. So you can and put the numbers of folks that you have to test from it. And i’ll let you know if if it’s how difficult it might be to get a statistically significant result from that kind of test. Okay. Okay. Can we generalize? Tow? How big an audience. How big a list? You need teo be ableto do successful test. I mean, is a thousand enough? Or is a thousand to small? Well, it depends on what you’re testing. And we thought you could just go to the tool. All right, i put you on the spot. I thought maybe they were generalization, but just if it were not a drastic test, then it may take a long time t get that kind of a result. Also latto the toll just use. Yeah. Don’t pay attention of the host question. Okay, so now we’ve got all this data from our email. You know, the envelope, the message itself landing page our ads. What do we do with all this? All this data in each segment, it’s, not just a simple has male the best one or you know what we do with it. All right? Yeah. That’s a that’s. A great question. And you know, we give a few examples that aren’t as simple as okay. Here’s the winner. So we roll out with that all the time, right? For example, we ran a test. That was an email designed test. So we had a very pared down text on ly no. Images designed template for an email versus the kind of standard template where you have the call to action, photo, etcetera and the results there were actually inconclusive, which in most cases is a worthless test. However, to take away their for us is that we can use both of these templates interchangeably, right? So, you know, since one of them is not impacting negatively or positively the performance that gives us two options to choose from s o that depending on the message, if we have a very compelling image, then we use that template if it is more of a text heavy message or, you know, just something where we want to mix up design versus no design that gives us options so it’s important, teo, you know, be able to assess your your test results to and figure out, you know, how to use that effectively, okay, i think i think, yeah, they’re different circumstances for every organization, which is something that we kind of tried toe andi and people say that a lot, but we try to use a lot of different examples in our presentation toe to showcase the different ways that these things and go and really, what what we’re trying to teach is the thought process, right? Like, how can i use this to my advantage? What can i do with these results? Do we need to test again? Where can i go from here kind of thing. So maybe you test using the colors black and red against using blue and white, and you’re finding that black and red is is a statistically significant lift for you for click through rates. For instance, maybe you just want to rule that out during your end when you really care about getting those dollars in and hitting your goals because if you’re using black and red constantly, people are going to get tired of it. It’s not going to be effective, you lose, you lose that lift. Okay, okay. Your description. Talk about unconventional unconventional but practical testing idea. These the ones we’re talking about this is these don’t sound unconventional today. My wrong are they may be they are unconventional. Yeah, no, i think you know, we try to provide ah list like a take take home list essentially at the end of our presentation of of things that we’ve come up with that we didn’t necessarily that aren’t considered conventional in the world of test. Yeah, start talking about okay, pick us off. All right, so in terms of ah, email, copy testing, one thing that we found have a significant lift is highlighting the call to action in an email with, like the simple yellow formatting, like what you’re used to in microsoft word, right? Because it automatically draws the attention people are, you know, programs for lack of a better term to to automatically go to that, right? So we’ve seen big lifts there similar similar thing is ah, increasing the font size of your call to action in an email things like that really simple, something simple like that? Yeah, just really, really simple things. Another one where we saw, you know, like over a thirty percent lift in our email response rate is changing the color of the button, you know, just things like that button formatting, another one that we’ve been doing a lot, ok, last one because i want to see some projected yeah, okay, one more is ah, making a dynamic button so you’re on the donation page, you select to donate twenty five dollars. Monthly, the button automatically updates at the bottom of the page to say, give twenty five dollars monthly or process my twenty five dollars monthly gift. We’re seeing much hyre response rates with with dynamic button testing like that is that when you mouse over, it actually changes automatically when you selected on the page. So the button goes from saying donate or something generic to to the customized amount so it’s kind of confirmation for the donor within the process that they are giving exactly at the level that they want teo and what’s, the difference you’re seeing with that we’re seeing we’re seeing significant lift on that. I think the last time we ran over one of my clients, it was ah, fifteen percent hyre completion rate. Oh, so some people, after they click the donate button some people don’t complete. Exactly. Okay. That’s what? I was missing? Yep. I thought some people back out after clicking. Well, it wouldn’t be. It would be after they select the gift amount. Right. So you come to the page and when you start filling out the field information, there is a gradual drop off in there in the completion people. Having second thoughts as they’re filling in their credit card number and their address, and write some people back out at that point, yeah, so whatever it is, it, it helps. It helps the process along. Okay, write that that changing of the button. Yeah, after it’s, click exactly it’s and confirms the donation amount. Yep, okay, jack, you got some. Yeah. Ah, similar kind of dynamic aspect is bringing in. Ask amounts from an email tio the donation page so let’s, say, or maybe even heis previous contribution, right, you have that information on file, maybe it’s listen, you’re sierra, you have it dynamically pull in from that person’s record onto the donation page, so that may be it selects immediately their highest previous contribution say that’s twenty five dollars, and then uses an algorithm tio go from there and calculate other likely of amounts that they would get if the ask string is the track. Ok, ok, alright, so thats awesome, okay, you got another one? Sure. So, like clicking kapin offgrid click candy for radio when we’ve done that similar on donation and advocacy pages is and and also also an email actually testing the call to action on language on buttons. So if you could use a more generic donate now or match my gift or something that you might use across your program generally, or we’ve tested that against more mission based colston actions. So, you know, help animals right away or, you know, stop trump or something like that that that actually has increased not on ly conversions on pages, but also click through is on e mails. Okay, okay, we just have about a minute or so left. So, nick, i’m going to give you the wrap up. Just remind us of the motivation. I mean, there’s so much we contest what remind us of the value of doing all this, i think the value for the donor for the dogs, the donor journey don’t write mirriam yeah, i think, you know, it provides it, provides them with a personalized path. Right? So it makes them feel like what they’ve done in the past eyes being acknowledged and that things are as easy as possible for them. And ultimately, you know, they’re here to support the cause is and we want teo enable them to do that in whichever channel they choose. Andi, we want to be able to show them their impact as quickly as possible and in his many ways as we can. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you. Alright. Thank you. There are nick garcia, jack ilsen. And they are both senior account executives at mall warwick donordigital, thanks very much. All right. Thank you. My pleasure. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen. Ntc on this interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thanks so much for being with us. Next week, trust me. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. Weather cps dot com and tell us. Credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dot, m a slash tony tell us our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is vices and chavez on our music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Nothing. You could. Hello, this is bruce chamlong, host of the web design and technology coach. 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