Tag Archives: wealthy donors

Nonprofit Radio for May 17, 2021: Your Partnerships With FGWs

My Guest:

Esther Choy: Your Partnerships With FGWs

First Generation Wealth creators have different values and mindsets than those who inherited their wealth. And FGWs far outnumber the inheritors. Esther Choy’s research will help you understand these folks and how to build valuable relationships with them. She’s president of Leadership Story Lab.



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[00:00:10.64] spk_2:
Hello and welcome

[00:01:47.84] spk_1:
To Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast and I’m glad you’re with me, I’d suffer with lateral epic and colitis if you gave me the elbow and told me you missed this week’s show your partnerships with F G W s first generation wealth creators have different values and mindsets than those who inherited their wealth and F GWS far outnumber the inheritors Esther choice research will help you understand these folks and how to build valuable relationships with them. She’s President of Leadership Story lab and tony state too, in praise of donors like my dad, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s a pleasure to welcome to nonprofit radio Esther choi she is President and Chief story facilitator at leadership Story Lab, teaching storytelling to institutional and individual clients or searching for more meaningful ways to connect with their audiences. She’s a contributor for Forbes Leadership Strategy Group and you may have seen her quoted in leading media outlets like the new york Times and entrepreneur dot com. Her practice is at leader Story lab and leadership Story lab dot com. Mr choi welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:01:50.29] spk_0:
Thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:06.24] spk_1:
It’s a real pleasure. Welcome. Um you you have you have some new research out that we need to, we need to talk about transforming partnerships with major donors. What are, let’s let’s just jump right in and why don’t you explain what F. G. W. Folks are? And uh tell us a little about your research that you did with these F. G. W folks

[00:03:57.54] spk_0:
sgw folks? Well, I recently published as a research report um and lucky enough to have a really, really good exposure, such as the one you mentioned in the new york times. And uh, there are a lot of surprises about the folks that we generally in the broader society, just just overly sort of broad and call them the rich people or the wealthy folks or the high net worth individual or the ultra high net worth individuals as if they all belonged in this model is a group that they all think act believe in the same way. And so I got curious about them after I’ve taught uh, in this major gift strategy program at Kellogg for awhile, wondering why are these people so hard to get What, uh, because so many nonprofits is doing amazing and moving and important and urgent work that no one else is doing. So why is it so hard to reach them? So I dug further end. Uh, did a lot of homework and I interviewed 20 very, um there are ultra high network folks and I just ask some questions about how did they get you their wealth? What is it like? Um are there any downsides too well having wealth and so on and so forth, and focusing on philanthropy. Um so this report, I can talk about anyone number of ways. So you tell me, what do you, what do you want to most learn about these first generation wealth creators? Well, let’s

[00:04:01.27] spk_1:
let’s start with how big a proportion they are of the of the wealthy,

[00:05:24.64] spk_0:
wow, I am glad you start. That’s the starting point. Um that’s one of the biggest surprises that I’ve learned because they are At least 68 Of the, this massive group that we call wealthy, ultra high net worth. They are at least 68 of them earn their wealth instead of inherited. That’s a big, big difference between inherited wealth versus earned wealth and that means they’ve traveled a entire social economic class That they did not grow up with. And so some of them, very few of them really make the majority of their wealth in their thirties or even 40s. Most of them are in their 50s and 60s. So we’re talking about full on grown adults with Children and maybe even grandchildren by the time they become um this wealthy. So it’s a very interesting transformation of your life, your community, your social circles, the things that you worry about Or not worry about all happen around starting from the point of 50s and 60s.

[00:05:42.34] spk_1:
All right, So, so they’re at least two thirds, but maybe even a little more than two thirds of all the, all the wealthy folks. The way we would describe as you’re saying, high net worth, Ultra high net worth. These are these are 2/3 of those folks,

[00:05:46.24] spk_0:
correct at least. And it’s actually you

[00:05:49.01] spk_1:
said 68%.

[00:05:51.10] spk_0:
68%. I picked the most conservative number, but I’ve read elsewhere too. And put that to um somewhere 80,

[00:06:14.44] spk_1:
80%. Okay. Alright. 800. And and everybody you interviewed is first generation wealth. That’s that’s where your research was correct on those folks. Okay. So let’s get to know them a little bit. Um, your research has uh, a nice chart. I like, I like pictures of the first thing I look for in books and pictures. Uh, simple, simple. You’re you’re burdened with the host with a simple mind. Um, but you do have these, these pillars of wealth generation. So let’s describe these folks, not, not not all three. I mean, people are just gonna have to get the research, you know, I’m not going to quiz you, I’m not quizzing you on block number four in line three on the no we’re not doing that. I don’t want to go like word by word because people got to get the research. Which which is that? Leadership story lab dot com. Right.

[00:06:47.04] spk_0:
Alright, okay. You can download,

[00:07:07.34] spk_1:
yeah, there’s an executive summary and you can download the full report as well. Right? So leadership Story lab dot com for the full thing, for the full, for the full study. Um But let’s get to know these folks a little bit these these first generation wealth creators. Um you start by saying they’re understated. There may be even humble, are they are they to the point of being humble and modest,

[00:08:01.84] spk_0:
humble and modest and they have a hard time. They have a hard time with the, with the word wealthy, they understand the size of their assets, They understand um what they are capable of affording, which is basically anything, but they have a hard time with the label wealthy and um they oftentimes think of in regard and never really left their middle class roots and that’s the majority of them come from very middle class, you know, they don’t want to be flashy, nor did they enjoy flashy things that attract attention. So um you know, make no mistake, they are part of things that are very um you know, shiny and, and sophisticated and, and high quality, but it’s not who they are inside. So that’s one thing to keep in mind is that they are very understated themselves and they often appreciate other people as well as other things that are understated.

[00:08:31.64] spk_1:
You make the point a couple of times of saying that they don’t they don’t identify themselves as wealthy even though they know that they fit into that category, correct? Okay. Um so you sat down and you you met these folks, you, well maybe not face to face, but you you spoke with these people or couples or how did how did that all work?

[00:09:12.34] spk_0:
Yeah, So I did all the interviews with in partnership with the research firm And it’s all done virtually because it was done in 2020. Um There was one noted exception um where I was invited to her home uh and I met all her kids and her husband’s and you know, it’s just like the whole family in the background and it’s kind of funny to talk about her family while her family was around, but for the most part it was done um through zoom One through calls and then um there are four people, so two couples. Um I interviewed them at the same time together and uh the length just got doubled. Um you know, it’s usually 50, 50 minutes to an hour and with a couple um we talked for over an hour and a half.

[00:09:34.84] spk_1:
All right. All right. How do you, I’m interested in some of the details. How do you reach out to these folks? How do you, how do you get their

[00:10:58.44] spk_0:
attention? It’s really hard. So the first thing we mentioned um in one of the four pillars is their understated right? They don’t identify with the word wealthy. They certainly don’t make big advertisement to the world that they are wealthy. And so to find them and to get them to agree to speak on record, although it’s anonymous. Um and to get them to open up and talk about money and wealth. It’s really hard so I have to rely on a couple of key relationships. Um One is through one of my alma Mata um texas A. And M. University. And my friend and colleague, the ceo of texas A. And M. Foundation help me recruit a few quite a few of these interviewees. Uh My business partner who also happens to be a uh trustee at the University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati foundations and um through a couple of my own resources as well as my research firms. So 20 for qualitative studies is you know, sufficient. It’s definitely not a lot. 20 people doesn’t sound like a lot but 20 of these type of people and get them to talk about very sensitive topic. Um was it took quite a bit just to get them to agree to talk to me.

[00:11:13.64] spk_1:
Go. Aggies.

[00:11:14.34] spk_0:

[00:11:18.54] spk_1:
you. Absolutely. Um And what was the median income for these 20 folks families?

[00:12:25.64] spk_0:
So um at this point I don’t think their income is very meaningful any anymore. So where I am uh by median I would refer to their uh their their networks. So the net worth the median range is 50 to 80 million. Um Although um the low I would put it in the low teens, the highs I would put them in 100 and 50 just give you give you give our listeners a sense as well of what we’re talking about like by Well you know millions is like a lot of Zeros. You know at some point it’s just like my mind can’t keep them all in one place. Um according to the Fed in 2020 the top one of the U. S. Um Folks have 11 million. So these are all um uh you know sort of the top 1%. Er And um

[00:12:35.44] spk_1:
If for the one even right right mid teens to 50 or so was was roughly the median net worth.

[00:13:07.24] spk_0:
Exactly exactly. But then if you think about the one of 300 million people in the us That’s three million 3 million people. And that is about the size. If you put them all in one city all in one location there just below new york city, just below new york, just below Los Angeles but just above the city of Chicago. Mm So three million people. That’s a lot of people.

[00:13:27.04] spk_1:
Okay. And And you estimate conservatively that of those 3,068 our first generation they earn their wealth versus inherited. Okay. All right let’s go back to get to know these folks a little bit um uh their entrepreneurial, no surprise but tell us what, what does that mean for the way they think about themselves and the way they might think about uh, their philanthropy.

[00:15:37.94] spk_0:
Yeah, so in the most literal sense, they are were entrepreneurs. That’s how they created, most of them created their wealth and with a few um less than 20 of them had a very lucrative corporate careers. And entrepreneurs also means that it’s a mindset, it’s the lenses in which they apply all things through. Um So it could be the way um that they would like their Children or grandchildren to approach um you know, if I wanted to study abroad even um and you know, I need additional funding. Well, how much you think about it as what untapped opportunities might there be out there for you in this country that you want to study, but it’s not currently fully leveraged. Um but entrepreneurial could also means to, as they think about non profit, as they really think about how they want to leave their social impact and how they want to fully make sure that their philanthropic dollar is put to good use that also applied and, um, compatible with their middle class values. So, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s up and down side, right? Um, sometimes something just can’t be measured. Sometimes nonprofits are run by people who are philanthropic reminded and socially minded and they don’t necessarily have the same sort of business acumen as, as, as well as, um, fear competitiveness, um, that these donors tend to have an embody. And so the downside of having that entrepreneurial mindset is that sometimes it creates clashes. And if, you know, at the very least disagreements on, is this really the best use of the precious dollars that your organizations have? Um, sometimes there’s no straight black and white answer yes and no. Um So um that’s what I mean by entrepreneurial

[00:15:52.04] spk_1:
And what else what comes next in those four

[00:16:03.84] spk_0:
pillars? So the third is free and I truly it seems like a very simple no nonsense and and and we’re like oh we live in a free society. But I think the truth of the matter is that a lot of people are not free, they are not free to pursue whatever they want, they are under certain professional career obligations or financial pressures

[00:16:22.84] spk_1:
and they are a lot of options.

[00:17:44.94] spk_0:
Yeah, exactly. And that’s why a lot of career counselors ask mid to even late career folks, you know, what would you do if money is not an issue? Right? I’ve heard that questions asked a lot in Korea counseling because a lot of people are under that pressure. But these F. G. W. S. They are not and for them it’s often times for the first time is, wow, now it’s not a theoretical questions anymore, I really don’t have to worry about money. Okay so now what what do we do? And so um a lot of them pursue experiences, a lot of them want the same thing for the Children and grandchildren. Um They uh pursued 3rd 4th 5th careers that they’ve always are interested, intrigued by, know that they’re not very good at and know that they probably may not may or may not be able to make a ton of money with. Um But they pursue it anyway, so it’s that sense of freedom. Um that I think a lot of people as long as they have to still worry about saving for retirement, saving for making sure you can pay your mortgage and things like that. It’s really hard to wrap your mind about. And then these folks are just sort of Mhm fully embracing,

[00:17:56.94] spk_1:
may want their Children to understand that having a wealth of options doesn’t just come, it comes from hard work and and devotion, which is what they devoted their decades too, so they want their Children understand that, that does just doesn’t just happen for everyone.

[00:19:40.94] spk_0:
Yeah, I’m glad you bring up Children across all 20 of them, even though the ages ranges from Late 40s to a few 80s, um they all worry about their kids even though their kids have all grown up or they have worry about their kids or have regrets about uh the way that they raised the ways that they pass on their assets uh to their kids. And the funny thing is that they did not tell me oh I have so and so um I really can confide in or I know these uh professional resources uh that I can go to and um all of them are just kind of like, I hope I’m doing the right thing. In fact, I know I haven’t done the right thing, but then talking to piers surprisingly was not an option across any of them. And so although they’re free, but this taboo topic of money and wealth have prevented them from really searching for the right answers at the time when decisions had to be made. So Children, it’s a constant universal worries, especially for people with wealth. Um, we’ve seen from studies after studies that for example, substance abuse tend to affect um, Children from families with means disproportionately higher than those who are not from a family with means.

[00:20:45.54] spk_1:
I wonder if there’s some tension for them because they’re not comfortable talking to those who inherited their wealth or even just other wealthy people because they don’t they don’t identify that way, but then they’re not comfortable talking to those folks that they knew when they were struggling in their careers and before they’re they’re great success there, great financial success will qualify that because success can take lots of, have lots of different levels to it, but before the great financial success, because they, like, they don’t want to, they don’t want to appear overbearing to their non wealthy friends who they know from high school and college and, you know, maybe professional school or you know, whatever. Uh so there they, like, caught in the middle, like, they don’t have valuable personal relationships to, to leverage and count on in in in times like when they’re questioning what, what to do with Children and, you know, sort of existential questions like that.

[00:22:44.14] spk_0:
Yeah, so this is another downside of being entrepreneur. Um another way to call someone very entrepreneur is what, you know, he’s he has a can do spirit, she has a can do spirit. So if you can do, you can do it yourself, you don’t need to count on other people to help you, you can pull yourself up by the boot strap. So uh that’s one and two is again, the subject of wealth, it tends to be taboo. Um in fact, the broken institute economist Isabel Saw Hill made this really app as observation and she said that people rather talked about sex than money and money than class. So first generational wealth creators have travel across classes and so that makes it really hard for them to say, you know, I don’t know what’s the right way if we do, if we travel, is it wrong for us to buy business class or first class and what are your middle class friends going to say? Poor tony poor Esther you’re struggling with questions like should you travel in business versus first class and it’s not something that a lot of people, first of all empathize with, and second of all have the right context to give sound councils and what about professional um coaches and um counselors and whatnot? I didn’t actually covered in the report, I chose to exclude it and just in the in favor of focusing on nonprofit and fundraising. But their experience with uh wealth management advisors are very mixed because it’s an industry that has a lot of conflict of interest. There are some really, really good

[00:23:04.54] spk_1:
let us in on something that didn’t make the report, this is great not profit radio you gotta let us in on the, on the, on the back story. What? Say a little more about these, the trouble they’ve had the mixed results, mixed results, I’m sure some have been, some results were fine, some relationships are fine, but so a little more about what didn’t make the final report there.

[00:24:40.84] spk_0:
Um I cut a whole section of just because I think it might be detrimental to getting people to read it when it’s beyond a certain length. So this whole section that I cut off was on um, how they view advisors, um, counselors and things like that. And indeed, you know, uh, two words to describe the entire section is that it’s very mixed. Um, some have great experience, some on the other end of the extreme is um, they thought the people they interacted with is just uh, the advice weren’t very good or too obvious or that again, they can do it themselves. Why do I need to pay you so much money to tell me something I know already. And uh, and, and by the way, that is somewhat parallel to their experience with uh, fundraisers. So I don’t want to just put the hammer on uh, wild advisors and and and um, tax advisers and whatnot. Um, because this idea that, oh, we know you’re wealthy, we know what you can do with your money, either for the benefit of yourself as well as for me or my organizations. That really changed the dynamic of the conversations as well as the services, how services rendered and that’s to their relative to their expectations. Um, so that’s why it’s not very helpful I think just to come off and um list a bunch of things that they’re not happy with without being able to say what would be helpful. So I just removed the whole section and also in favorite of keeping it readable length.

[00:32:20.44] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. You remember them, you’ve been hearing about them, the biden tax plan, the infrastructure plan, immigration. Is there anything in there in these continuing conversations that you’d like to be heard on? Anything in their impacting your work? Anything in there that you’re expert on and you need to be heard. You want to be a trusted source on something that’s under constant conversation and it’s in the press turn to has the relationships that can make that happen. They are a trusted source by lots of media outlets. They can get you heard on the subjects that you know best and that your expert on let them use their relationships to help you because your story is their mission. Turn life into dot C. O. It’s time for Tony’s take two In praise of donors like my dad. My dad is 88 years old and he gives to dozens of nonprofits a month. I have seen the checks that he writes now, 88 years old. So you know, he’s not doing online giving, he’s not doing online bill paying. He writes cheques for those of you not acquainted with checks. They come with check registers. That’s a little booklet that you can write all your checks in. So you can reconcile month after month, right? It’s an old process, but For an 88 year old, it’s the way it gets done. He’s outgrown check registers. He writes so many checks to charities each month that he just keeps a running list on sheets of paper. And there are so many check entries on each sheet that the sheets are curling up a little bit. When the sheet is complete, it’s almost like parchment. It’s curled up a little bit because there’s three columns Of checks in on each page. I don’t mean each check takes up three columns. I mean there are three columns of checks on an 8.5 by 11 page. He’s got a he’s got the check number, his own abbreviation of the name of the charity and then the amount and uh, he’s got the date, it’s got the date in there too. And so that’s how he reconciles. Uh, so yeah, dozens of checks to charities per month that, you know, that’s a kind of giving that I only and experience with through him because I do plan to giving, which is on the other end of the spectrum of giving. Um, he certainly doesn’t consider himself a philanthropist, but he’s very, very supportive of charities and and how does he choose the ones? Well, first of all they find him, I don’t know how the list exchanges or sales work, but charities come to him. So they send him U. S. Mail. He’s got no email, he’s got no cell phone. Um We’ll get to vetting in a second. So charities right to him. And he read the materials he scrutinizes, he decides whether he thinks the work is merits, his giving and something that he wants to give to, something he’s interested in. And then he goes to the Better Business Bureau. Why is giving alliance report on charities? And why does he choose that one? Because it’s in print, there’s no going online to charity navigator or any other rating service. Uh, that’s online. He goes to the print the booklet. So Better Business Bureau and if he likes your work and you’re listed in the Better Business Bureau, giving booklet rated well in there. Then he writes a check and you probably, these charities are writing to him again a month later and there’s a good chance he’s writing a check a month later, et cetera. It’s a very iterative process. There’s no real learning that goes on. I can’t say there’s a feedback and improvement part to the iterations. But, uh, the cycle continues. You know, we need people like that. These small donors. That’s a, you know, some people prefer to say modest donors. I’m not commenting on my dad’s or anyone else’s character. When I say small donors, it doesn’t mean that he’s a small person. Just he gives small gifts. So I avoid the euphemism, I just say he’s a small donor. We need small donors like this. You know, they he’s loyal. Once you, once you meet his threshold and it’s not very high what I described, then you’ve got him for a long time. Don’t try to upgrade him though. He’s not going to become a major donor and he’s not gonna put you in his will. I’ll see that that part. So forget the planned gift. That’s not happening. No, but he’s not, he doesn’t think that way. He’s never gone deeper with any charity that he gives to the way I’m describing. We need folks like that. We need the, uh, $10, $15 $20 donors. And in some respects, he’s a recurring donor. I mean, he is a recurring donor. He’s just is not part of your monthly recurring program that’s set up automatic, you know, the automatic debits credits. Um, he’s not, he’s not one of those, but he’s he’s a recurring donor. So in praise of donors, like my dad, it’s very interesting to watch him. We’ve talked about his process. Yeah, We need folks like that. And here we are talking about future, um, or wealthy, wealthy folks. I’m sorry, first generation wealth. Here we are talking about. And my dad, is that the, well, these folks, I would put plan giving at the far end of the spectrum. So these folks are near there, but my dad’s at the, on the left side of the spectrum. We need them all. We need all these donors. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo, but loads more time for your partnership with F. G. W. S. All right. Finally, these folks are lone rangers. What does that

[00:35:39.44] spk_0:
mean? Um, we touch upon it a little bit where we, um, you know, they are part of this new class of wealth. They’re like immigrants in some way. By the way, I really wanted to recommend a few books, uh, not just mine, um, that really helped me round out my understanding. So this whole idea of um, think of first generation wealth creators as immigrants. Um, they have migrated from a different class altogether and enter into this world where the beliefs, um, the values and oftentimes even language, um, or foreign to them and although it’s great, this is paradise. Um, they often find that there are tricky conditions. Some even would say because their native born Children and grandchildren, um, don’t understand the privileged privileges that they were born and then we’ve gotten accustomed to you. Um, and the cliche or the adage or however you wanna wanna wanna call it shirtsleeves, to shirtsleeves, rice paddies to rice patties, wealth does not last past three generations and they know that. And so when you think about this special Land of Paradise again, by the way, this is uh, I learned it through the book called uh strangers in Paradise by James Grubman. Um, their need of born Children and a grandchildren, statistically speaking, will be deported back to harsher land where the first generation have migrated from. And um, and here’s the kick tony I, I just, I just found it fascinating and this is why I can talk about this, you know, forever and ever mismanagement of their wealth, taxes and inflations and bad investments. All of those are more just the natural delusions from, you know, the couple, two Children, two grandchildren, right? All of those reasons are reasons for wealth, not being able to last past three generations, but you will probably, I’ve never found anyone cases for example, or family where the story basically is, well, grandpa and grandma gave it all the way to charity and left nothing to us. That’s why we’re poor again, you know, that just doesn’t happen. And so what my I think what I really want to focus on, I think the opportunities for non profit is that what might there be an um different way to think about the conversations that you have with these donors where you help them solve a problem or maybe many problems and then you also help yourself um solved the problem. By the way, I’m getting like, way, way, wait, this is a problem when you we have no script. I’m getting like way away from the lone ranger questions. I’m going to bring

[00:35:49.36] spk_1:
you back, but I

[00:35:51.31] spk_0:
but I think I’m getting to the whole

[00:35:58.84] spk_1:
profit radio No, no, you’re not. You’re, what you’re saying is still valuable. Don’t don’t 2nd guess yourself. What

[00:36:34.33] spk_0:
I’m, what I’m getting at is that it’s lonely to be first general. It can be lonely to be a first generation immigrant. Mhm. Except that most immigrants have somehow found other immigrants and they talked, they share notes that commiserates, they help each other out. But um, first generation wealth creators are particular type of immigrants where for all the reasons that we’ve talked about, they don’t actively look for help nor was real quality help readily available.

[00:37:15.83] spk_1:
Okay, interesting, really fascinating analogy analogizing them to immigrants. Um, did you, did you put any of them together uh, since you met 20 of them and got to know them? So these folks that are, uh, feeling loan, feeling loan, I don’t know, lonely, I’m just using what I’m not saying, they’re lonely in their lives. Maybe they are, but they’re lone rangers. Did you, did you put any of these folks together? Say look, you know, I met I met so and so like two or three weeks ago. And she was saying the same thing that you’re saying, you know, one of the two of you talk or would you be interested? You know, did you put any folks together to help them? Uh commiserating at least maybe even help. Maybe at best help each other.

[00:37:21.08] spk_0:

[00:37:23.32] spk_1:
think I

[00:37:44.63] spk_0:
Would I would if I were asked, but with these 20, because of the promise of confidentiality, um, I don’t share their names or contact with anyone, but um, I have done webinars since then where I was asked. So how do you find these people? And then if if they asked me then I will help.

[00:37:49.37] spk_1:
Okay. Okay, well I’m like a connector. So I was thinking, you know, if I could get her permission, would you like to talk to her? Because the two of you are saying things that are really identical and maybe together, you could help each other

[00:39:15.72] spk_0:
as well as having very similar questions. And this is where I was getting at the opportunity part because they’ve asked questions like how much and when should I pass my asset to my kids and grandkids, It’s dealt with by, um, with wealth advisors on a very case by case basis. And I think that should be, that’s the way it should be done. But what’s really sorely missing is how do other families handle this right to your questions of? Well, there are other people like me, what do they do? Because they’re in my boat? Um, so as well as questions like how do I get in sync with my spouse? Um, and then they also have questions on like, how do you truly vet? um, a non, a non for profit, you know, and how do you help? Not my, you know, the nonprofits that you support become more efficient and they are aware that not coming off as because I’m a donor, I give money and um, you should do what I tell you to do. Um, things like that, you know, that productive relationship with nonprofits. So there are endless questions like this that they can talk about, not just commiserated, although commiserating is great too.

[00:39:49.42] spk_1:
All right. I don’t know. I think you could be a connector, a major connector. Um, and I notice I’ll leave that there. Uh, but you know, the title of your research is transforming partnerships with major donors. So, so let’s let’s let’s transition to some of those opportunities. You talked about problem solving that could be mutually beneficial. How do I would’ve fundraiser ceo approach someone with that with that kind of opportunity?

[00:39:59.62] spk_0:
Yeah, so I want to break it down to three steps. I want to break one,

[00:40:00.91] spk_1:
2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 3 step process. Okay.

[00:40:03.92] spk_0:
Yeah. Well, yeah, okay, you can call it a three step sauces,

[00:40:07.35] spk_1:
but I didn’t invent it, you made it

[00:42:35.30] spk_0:
up. I think the first thing is you have to really think about the questions you ask them and uh, oftentimes, how curious how respectful for how informed you are are all set out by the kind of questions you asked? Are your questions mostly really at the end of that they self serving. Um or are you only focusing on a very narrow aspects of the donors? Um or are you really broadly interested in problem solving? Now, here’s another thing that entrepreneurs like to do, they like to solve problems and oftentimes they take the same mindset towards non profit Am I really giving to an organizations that are going to solve real major problems in assisting for sustainable way. Um, so that’s the first thing is the questions that you ask And then two is reading once you really find out about uh, you know, what you could learn from the donors, is that really being able to pair what your nonprofits have to offer and that structure in a way as well as well as frame it in a way that, uh, fits the mindset of, well, oftentimes the folks are very busy, they know they need to do something, but they’re very busy. So, um, how is it, uh, how do you make it easy for them? In other words? And then, um, the last thing I would say is, um, it would how do you acknowledge them? Right. Um, it sounds really obvious, right? You know, their stewardship program, there are people will involve in thanking donors. But what I’ve found is that people found, uh, people thought there’s not enough thank you or there’s too much thank you. And they’re not thank through the right medium. And so, Uh, we’re not talking about, you know, $10 $20 where there may be hundreds and thousands of them and you can’t manage them one by one and customized it. But with major donors, it’s absolutely worth it to make sure that is customized to their preferences needs. So questions, the way that you frame as well as the acknowledgment part

[00:43:38.80] spk_1:
and the acknowledgement of the stewardship is interesting. Um, you say somewhere that they, these folks have a hard time understanding, uh, the name on a building. You know, why that why people find that appealing? Why some donors find that appealing? So, so a brick and mortar in fundraising was a brick and mortar recognition would not necessarily be appealing to them. But finding out what is appealing comes from, you know, maybe this, this three steps is sort of iterative, right? And if you’re starting to get near, uh, near something promising, you want to, you want to be finding out to about what they would like in terms of acknowledgement. Yeah. How would you like to be recognized what’s important to you?

[00:43:42.92] spk_0:
So I have a friend of mine who advised nonprofits with operations like this. And um, she helped one of them. She said, you know what, why don’t you just want to just ask?

[00:43:57.37] spk_1:

[00:45:25.09] spk_0:
Uh huh. So he did, he created a survey through surveymonkey and you know, they have more than a handful so they can’t just call them up and ask them individually. So, um, he created a survey and he got over 70 response rate, which is really, really good, right? If you’re for for survey. And um, so the survey basically center around 33 things. Um, how would you like to be think? How often would you like to be think and through which medium do you most prefer to be think? And it’s not only do they have really good a feedback, but it’s such a positive gesture from the non profit to the donors saying, hey, we actually admit we don’t know, but we care and we should, we know what we don’t know and we care and now we really would like to learn more from our donors And that truly is a practical, helpful, informative donor centric step to take. And by the way, her name is Lisa Greer. She also has a incredibly helpful book called philanthropy revolutions. So it’s a mixed of, um, it’s a mix of memoir, it’s a mix of research because she told her story, but she also has interviewed over 100 principal gift level donors and um, and uh, and the last mix of how to. So it’s super helpful.

[00:45:41.44] spk_1:
How does lisa spell her last

[00:45:45.69] spk_0:
name? G R E R lisa Greer.

[00:45:54.79] spk_1:
What else? What else can you tell us Esther that uh, in terms of approaching these folks? Um, how about you get, I have a question for a little more specific question. How about you get their attention?

[00:49:04.47] spk_0:
Yeah, I know, um, getting the first meeting, it’s like 50 or 60 or, I don’t know, 70 of the work just being able to get in the call. Um, I think everything matters in the smallest amount of space, which is if you have no other ways to reach them. What do most people do? Emails and so make sure that your subject lined is the most attention grabbing as well as intriguing possible. Uh, way to, to get people’s attention by the way I have. I don’t know if I can memorize the four persona um, off the top of my head. Oh actually I do, I have it right in front of me. Um, my colleague scott more Dell. Um, he is the longest serving ceo of Waipio global young presidents organizations. So these are a lot of the highly concentrated, um first generation wealth around the world, 30,000 of them are around the world. Um, he actually put the their philanthropic tendencies in four ways. Um the idealist is the first one. Those are the ones that you want to make a true impact, long lasting impact. Soft societal problem. Another one is called the legacy Leader. Those are the one who really loves to leave, make sure they name last generations and generations that they are getting credit for the big impact that they made. The third one is called the model citizens and those are the ones that look around and understand what is the highest and highest of highest level of service and they want to be there and the philanthropic effort reflects that. And then the fourth one is called the busy bigwig. That’s the ones who are busy, extremely busy and yet they know they should do something but they don’t know what and how and so back to your questions of how do you get their attention? I think you should first by starting with having a point of view of Mhm. Of these four possibilities which one is this person most likely going to be. And then once you have a persona in mind, then is a lot easier for you to craft a message with the subject line that is most intriguing and attention grabbing for you. I get, despite what my clients and friends and colleagues know about me, I still get these extremely bland and generic um email messages that are, you know, if you just replace the logo of the nonprofits, I will fit anybody

[00:49:11.38] spk_1:

[00:49:35.07] spk_0:
all. And so, uh that would be the first thing I think about is have a persona in mind. Even if you’re wrong, it’s okay. Even if you’re wrong, at least you have a point of view about that person. But the upside is that Even if you’re not 100 right, just having the personal, that persona is going to help you speak to that person as if you know a lot about them already.

[00:49:49.87] spk_1:
Are you only really only going to get to them through an introduction or like somebody has to give you their email or I mean there’s not a directory of first generation wealth creators, is there? I know yours was obviously yours was anonymous, but because they’re a I don’t know is there a directory or

[00:50:00.81] spk_0:
something that I think that’s a really interesting question.

[00:50:04.75] spk_1:
Basic basic is what I major in

[00:51:01.96] spk_0:
basics. So really, really interesting question. I love the way you think about things. tony Um Not only is isn’t there one um they really know how to how to hide their wealth. You know, they believe in stealth wealth, not only because of the way they live their lives, but they know how to put things in all things in trust and so everything comes through a different name. And um data can help, um, the right kind of data can, uh, data enriching as well as data matching. Um, I don’t know a ton about it, but I know enough because there’s another company that I co founded that like, that’s all we do because in the old ways, how do you get names of donors? Okay. You ask your board, uh,

[00:51:20.56] spk_1:
that’s how you start. A small organization starts. But, um, but then now, I mean, now we have social media and you can have a campaign and see who gives to that. And then you then you do some research on those folks to see who, who might be, uh, have the capacity to do more. And then you expand your relationship even with the others who may not have capacity, but our willingness.

[00:51:22.66] spk_0:
But see, I I think there’s a lot in your current database that is not being fully utilized,

[00:52:05.85] spk_1:
that maybe for some folks. Yeah. And uh well, because we’re talking about stealth wealth. I mean, yeah, that’s that’s certainly possible. I mean, these these folks live modest, live modest means. I mean, Uh at least outward. Um I mean what, 20 years ago, there was the book the millionaire next door. I mean that’s essentially what we’re talking about this is there are more Zeros now and there are more of them. And we’re in a more financially mobile society now than we were 20 years ago. But the concept is the same that there are these hidden families of wealth that that are may very well be in your database. You know, then it was the millionaire next door now the millionaire in your the ultra high net worth in your database.

[00:53:26.15] spk_0:
Yeah. And when you, you know, go back to the questions, the way that you ask questions of when you have an opportunity to talk to a donor directly. As well as the way that you ask questions about your databases. Um That can really help you look for hit millionaires billionaires right in front of you were in front of your eyes. I wouldn’t be surprised that there are already uh but you aren’t you’re you’re not even aware that you’re pretty close when lisa and night um because of our share passion about this topic and she’s really doing it full time. I’m doing this. This is because This is my baby. Uh you know the first time she wanted to make a a principal gift um to her local hospital. Um she uh budget for $2 million dollars for her hospital and it took the hospital seven months to pay attention to her. And $2 million dollars isn’t a small amount for that hospital. It is definitely a major amount.

[00:53:57.95] spk_1:
But the latent, unconscious sexism, I’ve heard this from women. I do plan to giving fundraising, but I’ve heard this many times from women just ignored when they made explicit overtures. Not just subtle hints, but explicit overtures. You know, I want to do this. I want to remember the organization in my estate plan and, you know, ignored, repeatedly ignored. So, unfortunately, what you’re describing, your friend, lisa’s, uh, I don’t think it’s so uncommon.

[00:54:03.23] spk_0:
Yeah, I

[00:54:21.34] spk_1:
think it’s, I think there’s some, I think there’s just unconscious latent sexual, uh, not sexuality, sexism, uh, uh, in fundraising, it’s and money is left on the table as a result, died from the morality of the, uh, of the, of that that misunderstanding.

[00:54:41.64] spk_0:
Yeah. Yeah. So, so it’s haven’t seen quantitative research on just how frequently that happened, but that’s leases from her research, from her personal experience from your experience. So I think there are actually plenty of money within reach of nonprofits that they probably have missed, but they didn’t know they have,

[00:55:25.64] spk_1:
we’re gonna leave it there, it’s perfect. Now you have opportunities and I know that our conversation has stimulated thinking about how to find these folks and how to transform your partnership with them Esther choi the research is transforming partnerships with major donors. I’ll give you the full title aligning the key values of first generation wealth creators and fundraisers in the age of winner takes all. You get the research at Leadership Story Lab dot com. That’s where Esther’s company is. Leadership Story Lab and also at Leader Story Lab, Esther choi I want to thank you very much.

[00:55:27.50] spk_0:
Thank you. This is such an invigorating conversation, thank you for the opportunity.

[00:55:47.64] spk_1:
Thanks for saying you’re glad that I asked you were one of the generous, generous guests. I’m glad you asked that I got, I got chills. Thank you Esther next week, overcome your fear of public speaking. If you missed any part of this week’s show,

[00:55:50.02] spk_0:
I beseech

[00:56:00.84] spk_1:
you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o

[00:56:03.44] spk_2:
Our creative producer is Clear. Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark

[00:56:08.57] spk_0:
Silverman is our web

[00:56:09.49] spk_1:
guy and this music

[00:56:13.74] spk_2:
is by scott Stein, mm hmm. Thank you for that information, Scotty be with me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for September 8, 2017: Video Storytelling & Deep Pockets

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Maria SempleHow do you find pockets of wealth in the communities you serve? Maria Semple reveals her secrets. She’s our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder. (Originally aired March 28, 2014.)




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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of pancreas ola thigh assis if you hardened me with the idea that you missed today’s show video storytelling in a crowded video internet, how do you tell that compelling story? So your message moves others to take action. Sharing their smart strategies are yasmin win from vibranceglobal and sherry cheney jones with measurement resource is that originally aired september fourth, twenty fifteen and deep pockets. How do you find pockets of wealth in the communities you serve? Maria simple reveals her secrets. She’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder that originally aired march twenty eighth, twenty fourteen on tony’s take two five minute planned giving marketing. We’re sponsored by wagner, cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apple owes accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com is them. We be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com here are yasmin win and sherry cheney jones with video storytelling welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fifteen the non-profit technology conference we’re at the austin convention center austin, texas we’re kicking off our coverage with this interview. Are my guests now? Are jasmine win and sherry cheney jones welcome. Thank you. Thank you, it’s. Good to be here. They’re seminar topic is stop shooting videos. Start unlocking stories. Jasmine win is founder and ceo of vibranceglobal and sherry cheney jones is president of measurement resource is let’s start sherry, what are non-profits not doing quite a cz? Well as they could with video interviews, storytelling? What? From my perspective, because we help non-profits measure and communicate their impact in value, they often are focusing on their impact. So how are they changing lives and changing circumstances there, too focused on the activities. So, really understanding what your true impact is and telling your stories from there. And you’re trying to elicit really heartfelt story telling stories. You know, emotional. We want emotional impact. Okay, what would you have you have? You know, i think that a lot of times we focus so much on the technology, the process of doing video and also the questions. That we ask people, and so we don’t focus enough on the connection and really, when you are able to provide a space for someone too open up to feel that they can speak about their passion, be grateful. They then create that connection that we can then capture and witness through videos and so it’s that focus on that connection rather than just the information or that exchange. Now, as we are today, you’re asking people to get in front of lights and cameras or and mike’s andi, open up. Yes, men. How are we gonna start this process first? Let’s, start with how do we find the right people? And then we’ll get into coaching them and and getting their best performance and storytelling out of them. But how do we find the right one? Yeah, absolute. Tony that the key thing is selecting the right people. And that starts with being mindful of who your audience is. You know, we found that the most impactful, ah, relevant person to interview talk with are a representation of our audience. So, for example, for appealing to a donor’s, then it be great to have a financial supporter donors to be able to speak in their language in the same mindset for them to connect and relate. So think about the group’s. We want this interview to be meaningful for and select people from that constituency. Right? Volunteers, donors, board members. Yeah. Ok. And someone who’s were well respected. Who’s. Our ticket who’s also a very passionate and a champion of of our particular cause to be able to speak for us but also, at the same time, carry the torch for our audience so that they can connect with them. Sure, anything you want to add to finding the right person is sure. I always say, think about your wise. Why do you do it? You do, but not just why does your organization do what it does? But why does your funders fund you and whitey? You’re participants participate. And when you’re finding people to tell your story, you want to make sure that you are covering those three perspectives. Okay, three wives. The three wise. Yep. Three wise men know e wise? Yes, different wise. Okay, sure. Let’s, say with you now. So we found the right people. How do we start the process of making them? Comfortable evoking the really heartfelt emotion that we’re tryingto chief? Sure. Well, i will actually default to us because he’s really good at that, you know, i’m i’m the one that helps you create the content think about what you should be eliciting and he’s when it does the great interviews, maybe you’re more on the on the production side. I’m more on the defining what what questions? You should be asking what impact you should be drawing down of them stuff like, okay, we’ll come to you very shortly. Okay, okay. We got plenty of time together. Twenty five. Just great. Yeah. You know, for someone to be at ease. You really it’s it’s? Really? About how you think about the interview or how you think about it being on video? A lot of times, people focus on the act of, you know, being on camera so they feel like they’re being evaluated. They’re being judged or in an interview, maybe you think of, like, a job interview or or some others where they have to perform, and they have to be perfect. And what that does is it raises this level of anxiety where you have tio feel. Like you have to know not necessarily be your best to be your most authentic. Authentic. Yeah, you’re you’re going to be your best if you’re most if you you’re most attentive, you just you write, which is hard to get and even on even in still right videos, pictures it really is okay, yeah, how are we gonna do so down? So so part of that is in the initial invitation is instead of hey, can you do a testimonial keen? And you come on camera and do a video it’s about framing it in a way that helps them give instead of being put in a position to perform. And so what i mean by giving is, you know, i’d like to invite you to come and share your story so that we can help inspire others like you. You know, we we want to put you in a place where you can be of service to others, and when you’re in that mindset of being of service, to be able to share your experience and insight so that it can help others, it takes that pressure off because now it’s about your own story, your own experience. And there’s no right or wrong. And so that that’s the first step is the mind set piece. Okay, so let’s try to avoid characterizing it as testimonial. Do you know, do something that way? Put a label on right or even an interview? It should be more of a conversation, and i find that mom i doing so far, you’re doing great. My failing is a failing grade know you’re at least a b plus or something. You’re doing great. You’ve done this a few times. I have a lot of securities right already. Absolutely cool. Yeah, s so tell me more. So so so that’s the first step is setting up the frame for for what? That experience is like giving them information so that they feel prepared, you know, even some questions not necessarily for them to prepare a script, but for them to at least be a tease to know what to expect, that there’s not going to be this sort of curveball, or they’re gonna be blindsided because people have a lot of anxiety around, you know the uncertainty. And so that that’s another element. And then once you actually get into the session, then then it’s really about creating that space? I go through a specific routine if i find that someone’s either really nervous or they’re very tense, where we do an exercise called a ci gong, slap on what that is is where you basically take your hand and one hand and you slap thea part of your front part of your arm all the way back to up to your chest, and then you do on the other side and then down to your legs and then back up through your back and then on your head as well. You do that a couple times having how hard you’re slapping, just just so just like just like this. So you’re going back like this and and and then down to your chest and then back-up and what you’re doing is you’re activating the various different meridian parties and your body, your head too as well, too. And then once you do that a couple times, you’ll notice this sort of tingle. It just activates the energy and yourself and so that’s physically gets you ready. Another gong xi gong slap? Yeah, yeah, you can google that nok will be on youtube. The other parties is also getting you into what we call the vortex or the zone or, you know, the peak performance state and so, you know, i listen to some music, so whatever music kind of gets you going here, the whole goal is to are we asking the person i interrupt all the time, you know, that’s bad that’s, bad technique, a weapon? You don’t have a conversation, really? So we’re asking the person in advance what’s your kind of music or bring bring some of your favorite music, you can bring some of that, but even before the actual interview, i will take time to have a phone conversation, just tow learn about that, okay, build that report so it’s not. We’re not meeting for the first time on camera and, uh, and that way, we feel like we’re friends and i can ask them about different things, so the whole goal is to get them out of their head and into their hearts, because when they start speaking from the heart when they start opening up that’s when the magic happens outstanding. All right, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna surely now let’s, come to you with questions. Um, well, jasmine alluded to a little bit, but the types of questions where you’re aware your expertise comes in. It’s sure, in terms of thinking about what? Why are you doing this video? I’m sorry i called you jasmine jasmine? Pardon me? Sorry about that. Yes, you have been eluded. So what’s the purpose of the video you’re shooting. Who is your audience? What do they care about? And what we know about is although fund-raising is up from where it was pretty great recession levels, people want to know that there their money is actually making a difference. So no longer can we just say, oh, here’s a cute kid, i’m going to tell you my story about, you know, my family people really want to know that there’s a collective impact going on that there’s, you know, in the measurement world, the outcomes that you’re achieving. So you want to think about what are those outcomes that you know that people want you two to be showing and then making sure your interview questions air addressing those so people are telling their stories around how they experience the outcomes that you are saying that you’re achieving how they’re experiencing a perfect and we’re going to get really kind of personal, right? Like how i saved your life improved your life, help your child, etcetera. Yeah. So, you know, we have a list of twelve outcomes that typically non-profits air achieving like increased knowledge increased, gilles, you know, maintenance of new behavior, reduction of undesirable behavior. So no, those going in before you start asking your questions and let your interview we know that you’re going to want to know about, you know, how did this program increase your knowledge or help you get a job or, you know, decrease your, you know, risk for heart disease or whatever it is that you’re non-profits doing, make sure the questions are aligned with those important outcomes. Should we stay away from giving exact questions? You will be asked one, two, three, four, because i find in doing my show that that then leads to scripted questions, lead to scripted answers and and that’s not from the heart, that’s from appearing, like memorized so so sherry but we want to give them topics, right, but not exact questions. Is that? Is that the best practice or what? Either, either, yeah. I found that i could give them some questions and with a disclaimer that, you know, these are some of the similar types of questions that will be asking and then also explain to them how to prepare. So just think about some bullet points or just some stories that may be relevant but not necessarily prepare a script per se as well to so that that it alleviates the anxiety, but you’re also making sure that they don’t have a prepared answer. Percent yeah, yeah, like i said, then that’s not that’s, not the impact you’re gonna want, all right, anything else, before we get to the actual either of you need anything else before we get to the actual session with mike’s and lights and cameras that we should be thinking about? We didn’t talk about yet, you know, i think that’s that’s pretty much covers it for now we’re going to go and dive a little bit deeper into our session, then during that time. Yeah. Oh, well, i mean, there’s stuff you’re going to say in this session, you you won’t say here is that well, actually, you know, know what? We’ve got someone holding back. Of course not. Your size is okay. Okay. All right. I want shortchange non-profit ready. You know, of course, that all right. All right. So now we’re in the session, so presumably we’re in some kind of studio. These got a microphone because it might just we could just be doing audio, right? Possible? Absolutely. But might be lights and camera also who’s best toe ask, what do we do when we’re in the studio? Now? I could i could do that. Okay, yeah, you know, it’s again, it’s first getting them into that state it’s a two part process getting them into that place where they’re not thinking from their minus their speaking for the heart, then the next step, then it’s it’s like a dance. Then you’re the lead. And so through your mindful questions that you’ve designed, you’ve created both to communicate impact illicit to bring it out from them, per se. You’re also thinking about what is the overarching storyline that you’re trying to create. So one of the things that well, that we’re going to discuss in our session is the frame where for an appeals type of video, you know these air the videos that ah, non-profits play at their events to appeal to, you know, fundraisers and donors. And so there’s a seven start, seven step formula that i generally recommend to my clients as a guide for creating questions to elicit out those components. So the first part is, is that emotional hook or that connection? Something, whether it be a piece of data, something that’s compelling, or a story that just gets people that initially engaged. So they want to continue to watch the next step, then is ah gratitude appreciating the people that are there the people that have already supported you recognizing them so then they personally feel connected. Engaged. The third part then is impact showing the difference that that their support up until this point has made to show that you have traction, and that your stewards of their support this far. Then the next step is really diving into the importance of the purpose of the mission. Why are we all here? Why is it important to support us then? The next step is to is to paint a picture of what the future can be. So this is where we are. But this is how much we can this is how many more people we can serve. This is the greater impact that we can do. And then then goes the call to action, which is this is how you can help. This is how you can be a part of us achieving this bigger future. And the final part is that emotional clothes wrapping it up, tying it back to either the mission or or completing the circle of this story that leaves them with this emotional connection. But now they’ve see why why we’re doing this. They also know how they can be a part of it and that’s the framework in which we start to create questions that we start to elicit out in each of the different interviews. Sherry, this is a real art because that’s a lot to pack into what’s probably gonna be, you know, like a ford of five minute video or so bad. It’s doable, of course. Yeah, yeah. And i mean, in the session, we’re going toe share case study where one organization was ableto talk about their recreational programme with kids, but at the end of the day, they were able to demonstrate how they had a fifty seven thousand seven hundred seventy percent return on investment in those chilled children in terms of really transforming their earning potential over their lives. Just buy this, you know, recreational after school program and talk about and your fund-raising appeal if you’re able teo to share those stories, talk about those kids experience and at the end of the day, say, oh, by the way, give us five hundred dollars, and we’ll turn that into two hundred eighty nine thousand dollars for these children over the course of, you know, their lifetime that’s, very powerful and, you know, checkbooks are flying nah bins what if we’re in our studio session and it’s not going so well? Our interview is not really loosening up very tense you’re not getting the kind of emotion you’re hoping for. What what can we do to you? Break that besides achy gong slap anything else we can do? Like in them in that moment? Loosen him or her up? Yeah, yeah, you know, first of all, i always try with something with physiology. So some physical movement, whether it be breathing or others just to kind of, you know, shake out some of the stiffness there. If that doesn’t work, then i should start to shift into what are they passionate about? We totally go off or off camera off mike now, mike, or even even if the camera’s still on, but i shift their focus on hey, you know what? What do you know? What are you most passionate about? Tell me about your favorite, you know, and start getting really personal, and when they start to then connect with what really means, you know something to them, then it slowly they slowly start to kind of open up in that way. So i found that to be really effective, it might actually be a good idea to keep the camera rolling or the mike rolling because you might capture something really good whether they know it’s being captured or not. They’re there more of these because you’ve broken that i see you looking the tension about okay, let’s, create anything you want, but i was just saying, you know, a lot of it is the magic and editing, so if you know that framework that yasmin laid out and you know, that’s, what you’re going for, your looking for those nuggets that you’re going to put into that framework when you go to create your video and edit it together. And that that’s a really good point. Sherry, is that you know, when you’re looking at the post production editing process, you wanna have someone on your team that understands the story framework here? Not just someone that’s really a great good, you know, an editor or your your brother in law who knows howto video. But someone who understands the purpose understands the story’s understands elements of marketing as well so that they can put those pieces together in a meaningful way. Alright, we have plenty of time together. So you took some now about postproduction. We moved into that suddenly, that was well done. Thank you, baizman. What? What more about postproduction? Aside from let’s not have an amateur doing it. What else? What else can we say? You know, post production actually starts with preproduction. Always found that it’s very, very important to know the roadmap rather than shooting a bunch of content audio or visual and then just dumping it on to someone and saying here, figure it out so it’s it’s it’s essential to be involved throughout the process s so that’s, really, the key part here and then the other part is, is to understand buy-in to have someone who really understands the dynamics of human conversation per se, you know, there’s certain ways in which people speak that are more flattering than others. And so it’s it’s a very subtle nuance of how to cut the foot the pieces and then start assembled them together and then tie in either music or other elements that enhance that experience, whether it be visuals or other things as well to it sounds like you’re strongly suggesting that this be done by a professional. Yes, absolutely on dh they be involved from the beginning? Not just that you’ve given them a raw video file, and now they have to try, too. Kraft, what you’re describing? Great. Yeah, yeah, i think specially for your your fund-raising appeal videos and maybe the things on your website you’re going to ask people to donate to your cause. But i think for and you can correct me if you disagree, but for your maybe website testimonials or other things, you know, in our session, yasmin’s going to actually do one. On his iphone so just depends on what the purpose again understanding what is the purpose of the video? Your beauty that’s an excellent point. Yeah, i mean, we were we were talking last several minutes about the least, i think the the video that shone at the gala that ideally is evoking tears and and moving a room of seven hundred people or, you know, whatever, but on the other end of the spectrum share your point is really well taken. This could be very low production value with somebody with an iphone on dh can still be very, very moving. Yeah, absolutely doesn’t the production values don’t have to be high to be compelling? Yes. Depends what your purpose is. Yeah, and and and again, it’s, just starting with understanding, understanding your purpose, understanding your audience, understanding your call to action on and then finding the right medium for that. Um, i’m still going. Yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s really about having a storytelling mindset, it’s about having a mindset of thinking about what? What are we doing right now? And is who is this meaningful for? And then let’s just capture that moment, especially with technology these days. With, you know, our smartphones or iphones or android phones, you know, the cameras and the equipment is so advanced and it’s, i mean, you could capture a great experience bar trying to do it in the dark, but, i mean, if you think about wow, if i’m constantly thinking about how can i share this moment with someone else and who would benefit and why they would benefit, then then you’re you’re ready to go and as far as, like professional editing, you know, quite honestly, people can edit themselves, but really, i find that, like ninety plus percent of the clients and people i work with it’s a tedious process and that’s something that if they can learn how to improve the quality of capturing the experience that they can handed off to someone else, even if it’s simple edits it’s accessible and affordable for just even the average person who’s just doing a video for their they’re easing or something like that by phone has been picked up his phone as he was talking for those who are not watching the video as a visual. So i mean, it’s just it could be just that simple. Sure. You look like you want to add something. No, i’m just a green. Okay, oppcoll we still have another couple of minutes left together. What if i not ask you that? What have we not talked about? It doesn’t matter what stage of it is, what more would you like to say? It’s a great topic, i think. Just a kind of reiterate it’s about thinking about this experience, the interview or the video really as an opportunity for for you to help someone else give and and the way that they give is through their insights and experience. So we appreciate the opportunity to be here with you, tony, to be able to share and so it’s a it’s, a conversation and it’s an opportunity to give, and i think that really, when you start thinking of it this way, it alleviates a lot of stress and anxiety around the experience. Yeah, i’d love to leave loved leave it there, but we still have a couple minutes left, so i’m gonna press it’ll further on something i was thinking about when you’re recording. Do we do we need tohave an interviewer? Or should we just let the person kind? Of go free form and on dh hit on the topic questions hoping that they’ll do that or we need to have an interviewer. I i think yes, i think so. And unless the person is experience and very skilled with being able to create a connection themselves with either the camera, they’ve they’ve had either training or they could do it naturally. But i would say that the majority of the people are looking to have an interview because the goal is to experience a moment of connection. And how can you experience a connection without having some other person person? Lester trained to connect? Yeah, yes, directly to account. And so to answer your question, yes. Ah, it’s important to have at least someone there to connect with. Okay, yeah, sure, because i think it’s not it can be very scripted, and we’re trying to avoid that scripted feel so an interviewer helps reduce that that scripted feel better, more connection, okay? And, ah, there is one story i’d like to share and it’s about giving as well, too, and sherry’s heard this story a number of times because we actually start third i’m speaking together here, but last year, we were at the non-profit technology conference, and both of us were there to writing. So you guys last year, samaritan picked you up last year we missed each other in d c. Yeah, so sure. And i were both staying with our good friends neil and heather. Now new one. Heather had this amazing ten year old daughter named kendall. And every morning when we sit down for breakfast, kendall would just light up the room and she’d ask questions, and she will have about a minute left. Okay. Okay, so, so so anyway, you’re trained, so i know what you know. I’m gonna tell party there’s just to the store here, and i will re kapin the session here. Don’t worry about the way we wanna hear your story. Okay. All right. So so then ah, went the last morning that were there. She just barely looked up from her bowl and i said, hey, what’s going on, you seem different and she said, yeah, i’ve got to go sell girl scout cookies today i said, well, what’s wrong with that. People love cookies she said, yeah, but every time i get out there i get rejected and so i said, yeah, gosh, you know, i totally understand, so i asked her i said, hey, candle, how much of your cookies she said they’re four dollars a box? So i said here, here’s, twenty dollars, once you give me five boxes, she said really has like, yeah, it’s like, but here’s the thing i don’t eat cookies myself and so she but i want you to do what what i want to do is i want you to give these cookies to five people that you’ve never met before. All of a sudden her eyes lit up, she ran to her mom and said, mom, guess what? We get to give cookies away then? And i said, now here, kendall here’s, the reason why i want you to give those cookies away cause i want you to know what it’s like to make someone’s day. I want you to see, hear and feel their appreciation, and then when you’re out there and you’re asking someone to ask by a box of cookies, try this instead. Ask them hey, is there someone in your life that you really care about? I’d like to help you make their bay by giving them a box of cookies. So what we’re doing is we’re creating an opportunity for someone to give and so similar to this interview experience when you create an opportunity to give you shift that dynamic, so outstanding, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very, very much. You your favorite cookies with thin mints, by the way about us so good on this. Emotions are number two yasmin win he’s, founder and ceo of vibranceglobal and sherry cheney jones’s, president of measurement resource is non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fifteen the non-profit technology conference, thanks so much for being with us deep pockets with maria semple is coming up first, wagner cpas they do go way beyond the numbers for you. They have got dozens of policy statements for you to download a wireless device policy like no talking or texting while you’re driving for business purposes. Segregation of duties for financial oversight this chart will designate for you who should sign the checks? Who should write the checks? Who posts the accounts receivable? Who approves the payroll? It tells you who to assign each of these task too, and a bunch of other tasks. There’s a whistleblower policy, a conflict of interest policy, a travel policy, dozens of policies too many for me to name them all, go to wagner cps dot com creek resource is then guides stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books you aren’t a business you’re non-profit appaloosa counting is designed for non-profits built from the ground up to make your financial management simple and affordable. It’s fun to counting, advanced reporting, donation tracking and more it’s all in one easy to use software they’re at non-profit wizard dot com check that out now. Time for tony take two i cut down my five minute plan giving marketing tips to a video that’s about three minutes long took it all down twenty five to three did the phone segment on the august eighteenth show? If you want a quick refresher video, you can have the takeaways in a three minute video. Plus, of course, there’s a link to the full facebook live video it’s at tony martignetti dot com for those five minutes plan giving marketing tips that is tony’s take two and here is marie a simple with deep pockets. Maria semple is with us. She is the prospect finder, the trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com, and her book is panning for gold. Find your best dahna prospects now she’s our doi end of dirt cheap and free ideas. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back from vacation, maria. Thanks, tilly. Great to be back here with you. I’m glad you are. Where were you on vacation? We took the kids who are both in college. We took them on spring break and went down to riviera. Maya in mexico. Was this a selling vacation? I know you’re an avid sailor. No, it was land based. But it was wonderful. We did get out on a little catamaran to play that they had available at the resort, you know, to take out on your own. Just, you know, a smaller one. There was fun. There were times where your college kids thrilled about going on spring break with their mom and dad and sitting on the beach instead of being with their friends and drinking beers. Actually, they were. They were just fine with it. And, yeah, we won’t address the other. Part of that, i’m sure if they’re below twenty one that i’m certainly don’t drink beers or anything, are they? They’re they’re of age. They put it that way. Okay, okay, um, well, i’m glad you’re back. Uh, we’re talking about finding pockets of of affluence in communities. This this comes up in your practice, it does. It comes up a lot in, especially when i’m doing seminars or workshops in front of live groups, you’ve inevitably always have somebody raised their hand and say, g, we we really like to know a little bit more about our communities in terms of affluence. What what are the more affluent, zip zip codes on dh then, you know, what is philanthropy looking like in general amongst high net worth individuals? So i thought it might be kind of interesting for us to take some time and talk about what some of the resources are that are available online to kind of examine. You know, both of those areas. Okay, before we go online, is there any chance of starting with your immediate internal resources, like you’re bored? You could could you start there, perhaps? Oh, yeah, absolutely. You could definitely start. With your board what what i think is usually helpful, though, is if you very often, if if you goto your board and try and have a conversation at a board meeting or a development committee meeting and just kind of say, well, who do you know, give us the names of everyone, you know, you know, sometimes it’s better to kind of have maybe sort of almost vetted list first to se gi these air, some people we’ve identified or these air some affluent zip codes we’ve identified in our region? Does anybody know any of these people, or does anybody know anybody in the in the zip code? Because then now you’re getting them to really focus in on some specific people or some specific communities, and then, you know, versus them just trying to figure out who they know in their entire world or roll adex, okay, so we’re going to go online to try to generate these resource is start t these resources to try to generate lists and give people names and communities and things like that, too, jog their memories. Yeah, i think i think that works at a little bit better for a lot of boards, because a lot of people are a little bit more perhaps reserved, or they say, well, you know, who is it that you want me to bring to the table here, give me a little bit more parameter around that. Okay? Well, you’re our diet of dirt cheap and free, so where should we get started with this? So, you know, the census pulls together a lot of great data about communities, and that really is the basis for a lot of these statistics that you can get regarding not only where income levels are and wealth, but how what the makeup is of the population, right? So this could have implications not only for the fund-raising side of your non-profit but also thinking about programs and services that you offer. And, you know, maybe you have certain services that are more geared toward females are more geared towards certain types of populations, maybe immigrants, so you would want to know how you know, what is our population, makeup and how well, with this programme are service you’ve made have a sense that this might be something that you want to offer at your non-profit but not knowing the exact make of of the community you you would probably be, you know, better off. Just kind of doing a little bit of research to see. Well, just what are the numbers of the people in that community that make up that population? Ok, how do we access the census data? So one source is directly from the census itself. It’s it’s called american fact finder. And the website is a fact finder to roman that’s, the numeral two three arabic. We know that’s the arabic numerals, right. The arabic numerals, right back finder to dot census dot gov. So that is a pretty good place to start, because what you can actually dio is you can put in your specific zip code that you would like to do a little bit of research on. And you can get information, for example, like the average adjusted gross income for that community versus the entire state. What charitable contribution deductions are in that zip code. So that could because tito that’s very interesting. Yeah, it’ll. So i had gone in in prep preparation for this particular show today. I went in and put my own zip code in and saw that the average charitable contributions were three thousand sixty two dollars, right? So if you’re trying to think about where tio really start mining specific communities, it could be an interesting way to see if that how about community compares to other nearby communities, and you can also look at income income statistics there you can look at income, you can look at average adjusted gross income. You, khun look att estimated median household income. Andi khun, look att house values as well. So i thought that was kind of interesting because a lot of people will say, well, g, you know it it seems to be that the communities where there might be hyre hyre home values could potentially then translate to higher income bracket and potentially hyre giving as well, yes, interesting so you can you can play with these different variables of income and assets and charitable deductions average terrible reductions in the right zip code, for example, in my zip code. One thing that i found to be kind of interesting when i looked at the estimated median house value in in two thousand eleven as it was broken down by race, um, the asian community came out highest at just over five hundred seventy five thousand. The next highest level was the white population at four, sixty nine and change. So it was interesting to see how, how even they can break it down by race, based on the information found and census data. Okay, and that’s all that fact finder to dot census dot gov, right and another site as well. Which is it? City dash data dot com mom, where you can look at a lot of this broken down but focusing first on the census site that i mentioned the fact finder site, you can download their data into excel spreadsheet. So i thought that was interesting, because then you can you know, if you if you needed to do any type of reporting at your in you can take those spreadsheets and share them with other people within your organization, be that, you know, staff, or or bored, you can also sort you can also sort by different variables, right? Absolutely. And then they also had poverty, statistics and statistics around veterans. So if you were looking to try and figure out where the poverty stats, where, you know, maybe you’re trying to develop programming for lower income children in your community or something like that. You can try and take a look at where those stats are also some non-profits are addressing the needs of veterans, and so you could try and determine what the numbers of veterans in our communities and trying to come up with programming for that specific population. Okay, that’s a very good one. I love that one. Ah, yeah. All right, you mentioned city hyphen data. Dot com city data city data dot com there’s a hyphen in there? Absolutely. And i can put these on your facebook page, if you like after the show. Well, yeah, i’m going to do the takeaways and i’ll have a bunch of them. But you, khun, you can then add some or two you’ll be able to add beyond what i what i put in the takeaways. Okay, okay, terrific. So there again, you can search by zip code and again, you can look at the those adjusted gross income figures, charity contributions, home values again broken down by race and so forth. And, you know, you can a lot of the data you’ll you’ll note it’s laid out a little bit differently. So i think what i would say to your listeners is checked both of them out. See what type of information it is that you want to pull out of this. Andi, see if if if the data is going to be useful for you, it’s presented a little bit differently on the two websites. But i have a feeling that the actual core of where all the data is coming from. It’s really? All from the census. Oh, interesting. Ok, same data differently presented. So youse both lookit lookit? Both. Okay, absolutely. This is an example. You know, i love this example of ah, value that the government provides us through the through the census. Yeah. It’s all it’s all there, it’s free. And so why not take advantage of you know, all of this? All this work legwork somebody else has done for you. What else you got for us? So then i was beginning to think about, well, let’s, look, a philanthropy in general and the mindset, perhaps, of high net worth individuals and two interesting studies that are out there. One is by bank of america. They do a high net worth study on the last one was done at the end of two thousand twelve and another a source that i do want to give some time to talk about is the chronicle of philanthropy because they did something in two thousand twelve called hyre how america gives you remember that and the make of america’s study it is quite lengthy. They do have an executive summaries well, and that girl is a bit longer. So but of course, if you if you just google the bank of america hi network study, you’ll get right to it as well. But what i thought was kind of interesting is that, you know, that they profile how the high net worth individuals are giving now. So where the state of giving wass and at that point in time when they did this study and also how they might be projected to give so i would really encourage the non-profits to take a look at that, especially if they’re looking to, you know, really increase their individual giving program. Ah, most high net worth individuals just to kind of understand where the mind set is for these individuals. Okay, so this is sort of after you’ve identified people that this isn’t really to identify pockets of affluence in your community, but how to deal with those affluent populations, right? Why they why they give what motivates their giving? What motivates their giving? Right? So trying to trying to figure out where they’re giving, where, where might it be going? What is their mindset? So it’s one thing to be able to identify those pockets, but then how do you interact with them? How do you take that data and make it useful for you? Right? So one thing that i found interesting on on one of the pages of the report was that of that particular report was that the high net worth donors are increasing, they’re increasingly directing their gifts towards operating support. Ah, and this is something i get all the time. When i hear at my seminars, people will say, well, you know, the foundations and corporations they really want seem to really want ty, they’re giving to very specific program, nobody wants to fund operating support, but here in this report, they’re saying that they are open to the high net worth individuals are open to ah e-giving you contributions toward operating support. So i think that this is a huge opportunity for non-profits to focus up, because obviously these donors do understand about overhead. They understand that there has to be money for the lights and the heat, et cetera, and i think that you can easily direct some of your conversations to that. That sector. All right, we have to. We have to take a break for a couple minutes. Maria, when we come back, we’ll keep talking about these deep pockets, how to find them. We’ll talk about that chronicle of philanthropy survey, and i know that you have some others, so everybody stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively clamber station top trends, sound advice, that’s tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. Oh, and i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. More live listener love going abroad, sweden, iran and carefully uk but it’s not spelled carefully like the word of course, i could be bringing mispronouncing it, but it looks like carefully to me. C e r p h i l l y welcome live listen, love also tampa, florida, atlanta, georgia, moorestown, new jersey and two unidentified in the u s so if i didn’t say your city, your state, you could be you could be masking, which which which i can’t say i blame you for, but we know you’re out there. We see you very vaguely somewhere in the fifty states. Maria simple. I want to thank you for including a picture of me on your the prospect finder, micro fiber cleaning cloth. Thank you like that. I don’t know how i feel about my face being smeared across people’s monitors and smartphones, but but i think there’s a little picture of you and me in the studio, on the arm, on your cleaning cloth. Thank you very much. You’re very welcome, very welcome. So i decided that sometimes that some of my speaking engagements i might be able to hand that out and be a nice little thing that people could keep and think about our faces for years to come. And i noticed, too. If i if i stretch it vertically, it makes me look hydrocephalus. Oh, my goodness, i haven’t tried them, and if you stretch it horizontally, then looks like i’ve gained about one hundred twenty five pounds. Can i send out some listener lovas? Well, three times? Well, because of your show, i was asked to go and speak to women in philanthropy of western massachusetts back in february, and they’re huge fans of your show. And so i just wanted to give a shout out to them and say hi, thank you very much. Women and women in philanthropy western mass and they’ve invited me to come, but they’re booked until, like, next mayor april or something like that. Twenty fifteen not talking about this year. They’re booked until spring of next year sometime. So tired. Organized group. Yeah. I have time to make my reservations. Um okay. Let’s. Go back to our deep pockets. Was there anything more you want to say about the bank of america study of high net worth philanthropy, or we finished with that? No, you know it’s very in depth, really good projections i found on pages sixty three to sixty five of the study of how they’re giving now and how they’re projected to give so people are feeling a little overwhelmed with study, and they want to at least try and figure out what wears what this all means for me. And where should i go with it? I would say they should focus on pages sixty three to sixty five study that’s incredibly valuable, because and so is the fact that you said earlier there’s an executive summary, because if i was listening and i heard sixty five pages in a survey, i think i’d move on to your next suggestion. But that’s, just me, but it is called the bank of america study of high net worth philanthropy, and as marie said, you can search for that and get it for free. What do we got over the chronicle of philanthropy? This how america gives thing. So what they did back in two thousand twelve, they, uh, they decided to make an entire map of the united states you can put in your zip code and get a lot of data. On where philanthropy is for those specific zip code. So i thought that was kind of interesting because, as you know, the chronicle is one of those resource is that a lot of people really rely on. Um so when i gone in, i put my zip code in, i took a look at they give a breakdown by total contributions what the median contribution is. And then they also give you the median discretionary income. Um, and then they give it as a percentage, they give you the percentage of income given. So i thought that was it was pretty good. They give a breakdown as well by demographic. So you just have an idea. You can look at a breakdown by age, race as well as education level of the population. Uh, just in case that was of interest to you. And they give a breakdown by income level of giving. So if you wanted to see, like they break it down between the people who make between fifty, the study basically starts at assuming on income level of at least fifty thousand. So fifty thousand to one hundred, and then one hundred, two hundred, two hundred. And up and then all income levels help me understand how you would use all these sites. And i know there’s another one one of two we’re going to get to but some claim gives you ah, project a task a need. How would you use all these different sites? You go to all of them? Or do you? You find some from some sites and other info from other sites. How do you approach this? Well, it really depends on what specific piece of information they want. Most of the time they’re giving me the name of an individual. Teo actually profile for them, and other times they might come to me and say, well, you know, we’re interested in it banding and doing some proactive prospecting, you know, where are some of the more affluent neighborhoods that we should be looking to perhaps hold cultivation events? Um, sent mailers out, too, so they’re just trying to identify what are those pockets near them that they should be potentially targeting if they want to get into some proactive prospect and get some new names of people associated with their organization? Right? And if that’s your that’s, your charge, the ladder to find those pockets. How would you how would you approach that? So i would probably go. Teo, both chronicle of philanthropy study, as well as the census data to try and identify where those hyre income levels are and those those locations where people are giving more. So they be more of, i guess, the more likelihood of success if they’re both approaching people with higher incomes and also are accustomed to giving hyre levels of money. Okay, okay, on. And then, of course, you have to devise. You know, what is going to be our plan if we want to go to that entire zip code? What? You know what? What are we going to do? Are we going to divide the mailer to go to all the households there’s in every door direct program, for example, that the post office runs where you can target specific zip codes? Um, every every door direct, no shoot. Right? We’re out of time. Let’s. Hold that every door. Direct, let’s, let’s. Talk about that next time. And ah, unfortunately have to leave it there. So there are some other resource is that you have? Which we will include? You can add to the to the takeaway is that i do on the facebook page, okay, sure, absolutely. Thank you very much, maria simple, the prospect finder at the prospect finder dot com, and on twitter at marie. A simple thank you, maria thank you next week, run like a business and program you’re bored. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. These are our sponsors weinger sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apolo see accounting. It is software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com, and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be green what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. 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Nonprofit Radio for June 30, 2017: Persuading The Wealthy To Donate & Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring

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Ashley Whillans: Persuading The Wealthy To Donate

Ashley Whillans’ research reveals the language that stimulates giving from your wealthy potential donors. She’s assistant professor at Harvard Business School.




Gene Takagi: Your Board’s Role In Executive Hiring

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Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO), walks us through this important board responsibility: hiring the executive officer. (Originally aired 7/11/14)



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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the either ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of pem fi gis if you bullied me with the idea that you missed today’s show persuading the wealthy to donate ashley whillans research reveals the language that stimulates giving from your wealthy potential donors and your boards role in executive hiring. Jing takagi are legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group walks us through this important board responsibility hyre ing the executive officer that originally aired on july eleven twenty fourteen on tony’s take two the charleston principles we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com my pleasure. Now to welcome ashley whillans to the show, she just turned her phd from the university of british columbia. She conducts research with non-profits companies and government. She was a twenty fifteen rising star of behavioral science. In twenty sixteen, she helped start the behavioral insights group. In the british columbia provincial government next month, ashley begins her faculty career as an assistant professor at the harvard business school in negotiations organizations and markets she’s at ashley whillans and i’m very glad to welcome her to non-profit radio welcome, ashley. Thank you so much for having me this morning. Pleasure. Now, there’s. A lot going on in your life. You just got your ph d just last month, right? You just graduated? Yeah. That’s. Right. Uh, something like two weeks ago. I just got my my doctorate. Congratulations, that’s. Outstanding. Because because when we started, when we started emailing your your email signature said phd candidate and now it says ashley whillans phd. Yeah. That’s right. That was the most exciting email change i made recently. Yes. Right. You got to go into preferences signatures and change. Delete the word candidate that’s. Outstanding. Yeah, great. Yeah. Now i see you are not using period’s. Most people do. Ph, period d period. You’re opting against the periods. Is there some kind of ah, that a brevity fetish you have or something? What? Why’s that no periods. Yes. Efficiency, laziness, something like that. Okay, even those two keystrokes, those two period keystrokes. It’s. Too much with the right hand. Too much. Okay. Okay, on dh now, big, big changes coming up you. So you’re you’re in british columbia that you went to university of british columbia. But now you gotta move to cambridge, right? You’re moving tomorrow? Yeah. Moving tomorrow. Uh, morning. Cambridge, massachusetts that’s. Incredible. Um, good luck in the move. Are you are you a canadian originally? Your canadian citizen? I am a canadian. Okay. All right. Now, aren’t you at all concerned about our muslim ban? I know ashley willens. So that’s a suspicious sounding name to me. Is that a muslim? Ashley whillans is that a muslim name? Sounds sounds muslim. No, i i don’t have to worry about it, but i know it is an issue for some of my my friends. So this’s america shortly? Okay, you’re you’re friends, right? It’s affects a lot of people’s friends and that you know where the where the democracy, where everyone is under suspicion. So i did see your head shot and i did not see ah, hey, job on your head shot. So may i hope you’ll get through scrutiny. I don’t know what we’re looking at canadian citizens, how scrupulous were being. I hope you have no trouble coming in. Let’s, get to the substance of sort of self concept and and giving, let me ask, let me start. A lot of people think the wealthy are selfish. Is that so? So i would definitely hesitate against that general idea related to the research that i did. I think it’s, so i think that that wealthy individuals have a lot of personal control and so it’s not that wealthier individuals, on average or selfish, but rather that they and are used to and enjoy having autonomy or personal control over decisions in their daily life. Yeah, that autonomy then and an agency we’re going, we’re going to get to. There was a really interesting study in twenty fifteen of preschoolers, which is related to the work that you did and we’re going to talk about, can you? Can you summarize that for us? That twenty fifteen preschoolers research? Um so i think broadly, this wasn’t my research was that the preschool fighting is that kids from wealthier families actually give less tokens during an economic game in the lab than been children from less wealthy background, so they decide to keep more tokens for themselves, even when the tokens they’re going to go to other children who who couldn’t be there to participate in the study because they were at sick in half because they’re sick in the hospital, right? This study is just one example of many that are sort of proliferating in the social sciences, suggesting that, um, people from wealthier backgrounds tends to give less when one provided with the opportunity, right? And your research finds the way teo overcome what? What? Maybe? Well, it’s, your research points out that it’s really not something innate, but it’s the messaging coming from the charities that is a variable factor that can influence the giving of the wealthy and the less affluent, too. Yes, that’s right. So, really, what our research fight is that the and this is this isn’t necessarily surprising so fund-raising professional, they’re like, of course, you should table your message to your audience, but i think what’s, really. So what we find is that he’s more agenda messages, messages that focus on personal achievement and control are more effective it encouraging giving among those with the greatest capacity or messages that focus on what we can all do together to help the cause are more effective for those with the less capacity give but across our studies of more than thousand working adults from both chicago in vancouver, we don’t find any inherent differences in our studies between those with most the most money in our samples in those with please okay, samples so we don’t see a main effect where people who are wealthy orc are giving much less, and people have less money or giving maurine the content of the earth studies. But rather we find that depending on how the message is frame’s related to charitable giving, the wealthy give more or the left latto give more. Okay, now that sound very it sounds like you’ve said that those few paragraphs a bunch of times in the past couple months or so nastad sounded very, very polished and finished. Have you repeated those words a few times? No, not too much, not too much, but i have thought about this research a lot over the last three years. Yeah, okay. All right, well, it’s there’s a lot there. We’re gonna unpack it, but, um, yeah, i like the bottom line is that it’s not only about the wealthy and it the tailoring a lot of times fundraisers or anybody and non-profit they talk about tailoring a message? They mean used the person’s first name or, you know, address them personally or address them by ah, bye program that they’re interested in or certainly maybe e-giving level where, you know, but we’re we’re talking about cutting it. A different way. Which would be bye affluence. Do i have that on my perverting? Your researcher of kapin basically absolutely right. Okay, okay. We’re gonna go out for our first break. Thank you for telling me. I did not pervert your research. I don’t want to do that. We’re gonna go out for a first for our break. And when we come back, you and i will continue talking about persuading the wealthy and others to donate using the right messaging. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the either ninety five percent. Ashley whillans recent phd. We’re talking about her research on messaging and e-giving ah, the different levels of of affluence. Actually, you did this with riel charities. Is that that’s what i gather, right? Yes. That’s, right. So we conducted the research with an organization that focuses on effective plan to be the life you can save on. We’ve also done this with a large private university in the united states. Okay, i guess you’re not at liberty to say the the name of the university is that? Does that part of the agreement? That’s, right? Yeah. Kapin nondisclosure agreement. Okay, now we know that you’re headed to harvard business school, but, you know, that’s just may just be a coincidence. Oh, by the way, what? It wasn’t there, it wasn’t. It wasn’t there. Okay, but where were you going to be? Teaching? I mean, you know, it’s like getting your syllabus together right for your first. Are you going to teaching in the fall? I’m teaching in the second semester, so i’ll be teaching negotiations. I take the class first and then i teach in the second. Semester they make a making a new professor. Sit through the class, see that you understand how the class goes and you get a feel for what the classroom is like. Oh, man, and you get paid for that. You’re on salary while you’re doing that? Yes, falik okay, well, of course you have other responsibilities as well. You’re not just going to one, you know, just taking one class. And they i’ve been sitting on the quad for the they don’t let me off that easy. Okay? Cool. No, it’s. Very good for you. All right. So a charity without a canadian charity, the charity is in the united states. They’re both the both the college and the charity work in the united states. Ok, ok. Was that hard? Is that hard? Teo recruit charities too. Let you mess with their messaging? Yeah, that’s a great question. It definitely took a little bit of collecting initial evidence on the idea first. And i’m also part of the society for philanthropy initiative out of the university of chicago. So it’s run by john list and other economists who are centered at the university of chicago and there’s a conference every year that brings together fund-raising professionals, professionals, leading academics in economics, sociology and psychology. Two begin to think about and talk about using the insights from our fields and put them into practice. So that was a great source of connections for us when we went and tried to find field partners for our research professor john list in chicago, i think he’s been on this show, i’m pretty sure he has i’m i’m gonna go to tony martignetti dot com and search his name, but i’m pretty sure john list has been on. Yeah, that’s great, yeah, he’s a major he’s, one of the leading academic academics in the field of fund-raising so he really started the academic field of philanthropic studies and fund-raising looking at from a behavioral science perspective, his career really took off after he was on non-profit radio. So this is very auspicious for you. I don’t know if you know that this is a watershed, this watershed for you. I don’t know if you’re aware of that. Great, great. Now i have been. But now you are here. Yes, you know, gen shang. Do you know professor gen shang? I don’t know, you know. You’re not well connected, all right? We’ll have to connect you in the university environment. She’s another professor. Now it, uh i think she’s now at cambridge. The other cambridge? Not the not the knockoff. Cambridge. You’re moving to she’s. The original cambridge, i think. Pretty sure. Okay, so all right, so you recruited your charities and then what’s the next step? Yeah. What was next after that? Oh, you got a what we had a discussion about. You know what? Campaigns were upcoming that we might be able to do. Random i control trials. So that’s, where we’ve flip a coin essentially on dh randomly find everyone who’s going to receive a mail out to receive one of the treatments or the other treatment. Andi, that was actually done all by the university alumni office. So they were able to select one set of messages for the group that we randomly assigned in another set of messages for this other group. And then we were able to put these messages into the field and look at donation rates, both participation rates, so likelihood of donating to the campaign. And also the amount that people donated to the campaign. Okay. On dh it took about i think it was in the field for so we were waiting for the results for three or four months on dh. Then we were able to look at whether and how different messages affected different potential donors differently, and the charities had wealth, information or income information about the people who receive these melons right in our field study with the university office we hey, we did a little bit of guessing and well, so we didn’t have individual level wealth data, but we did have a zip code data. We were able to get the average level of well in the neighborhood that individual’s lives. We also knew how much they donated in previous campaigns, which is a pretty good indicator of wealth of someone who gives six, seven, eight thousand dollars to their university alumni office is probably a lot someone who’s wealthier than then another individual who’s giving five, ten, fifty hundred dollars over the last couple of campaigns. So we only that is an index of well, all right. That’s a good that’s. A good proxy. Ah, especially if it’s over over a period. Ah, good period of years or so that’s true. And you used ninety thousand dollars as the cut off between affluent and less affluent, right? So where we got that number is actually so those were from our more tightly controlled experiments in the field where we i went up to adults at different finds museums in vancouver and chicago. And we asked him to participate in a study who provided them with a windfall of money and prevented the opportunity. Donate either in terms of agency or communion is we’ve been kind of talking about and we measure their individual loss. Okay, so that was different. That was different. Fields, scratch that off. Actually, just emerged from our data. So wave randomly assigned everyone in our sample to see either these more achievement focused or these more community focused messages. And then we ran additional analyses looking at you know what? At what point that these messages focused on achievement really seem to be working on. We found that message is focused on achievement. Really seemed to start working at promoting giving around this ninety thousand dollar mark. So that’s, that point actually emerged from the studies that we were conducting. Okay, okay, so that so that was a different set of field research, the the ninety thousand dollar affluent level that was from the university or the or the or the charity mailing? Okay. Okay, well, by the way, what’s, your what’s, your windfall payment to participate in the research at the at the museum’s. What do you what researchers consider a windfall? Yeah. So when paul is money that you didn’t expect to get way, provided all of our participants with a ten dollar when thawed the beginning of the study. But we there’s a couple of things that we do to help people ten dollars that’s a winner money, ten dollars. A windfall. I don’t really like twenty, five hundred or five thousand or something, man. They’re underfunded, you’re badly underfunded payment. You could go for lunch or something or have a coffee. So what we actually do, though, is way. Tell people that’s their payment for participating in our study, and we put it in a foryou envelope on we tell participants to put that payment of money away. So those couple of small, small thing telling them it’s their payment for their effort in our studies and telling them to put it away and just sign for it how people on our studies feel a sense of ownership over the payment because we know that if so, then we can feel a little bit more confident, but the results will generalize to the real world because people are treating that more like their money and left life, you know, something that’s like a payment that belongs to the researchers as opposed to them. You people are pretty tricky like you. You’re really trying to pull the wool over our eyes if we’re if we’re a subject subject, yeah, it helps. It helps us feel more confident in our results if i didn’t and here’s some of our experiments all money, you know, can you make a decision with it? People are going to make a different decision then, if they feel like i’m now asking them tio part with some of the money that they’ve earned in our study, i see very wily ofyou, behavioral scientists. All right. Are you familiar at all with the research of ah, do you know the name’s, sara kiesler and lee sproule? No. Okay, old social scientists from when i went to college. But i thought you might have come across there. They were behavioral social scientists also. But i won’t dwell on there. There, the forefathers, for four founders, foremothers of your of your research, but it’s not important, okay. Okay, so all right, enough of the detail. Now what? Uh, what emerged from the the different messages flush it out for us. So what we found was that messages that focused on achievement encourage generosity among those with the greatest capacity to give so above that ninety thousand threshold that we’re talking about where’s messages focused on community. But we can all do together to help the cause, encourage generosity among those with the least amount of money in our samples. And this was true, as i said before, both when we measured individual level wealth and when participants knew they were in a study. And these findings also emerge when we conducted this research in the field with the university fund-raising office and people didn’t know that they were in a study. So we also thought that these messages focus on achievement promoted e-giving for individuals who were graduates of an elite business school in the united states um, and then that study it increased the amount that that individuals gave in the study. Now what you refer to as the communion message, by the way that’s interesting tries to work communion, huh? Why’d you choose communion instead? Of community. So this is just really a kind of jargon. Ease social. See there’s the trouble right there. Yeah. Jargon. We have jargon jail on a non-profit radio. It was the first problem, right? There’s the problem right there. Okay. Okay. So community is one way you can think about it. That’s totally fine if it’s with a lot of research and our field showing that people from different cultural backgrounds tend to think about their relationship with others in different ways. So in north american cultural context, we tend to be more gentle. We focus on this self as really standing out. Where is in more collectivist culture, such as in east asia? We focus more on fitting in, and our relationships with others are really important. Recently in the social sciences, people have started to draw parallels between these different cultural mindset and the mindset that are so secret with having more or less money. So i used the word agency and communion tow link this broader literature. But really, you can think about this in terms of agency or community that wealthier individuals tend to be more singularly focused and really wanting to stand out. We’re lost wealthy individuals tend, on average to be more focused to their community, so they tend to want to fit in with those around them. You have the gift of of ah, complete explanation and appropriate qualification, which will serve you well as a professor. A ll the professors i’ve interviewed, including john list have those gift detail and qualification were required. I know if you know that, but you’ve. You’ve acquired it through your three year study. Congratulations. All right. So so the message is that you used for the the communion. The message was let’s. Save a life together. That’s one example. Right? And then the for the individual achievement of the agency message he used you equals life saver. Those are those are a couple of examples of messages. Yeah, yes. Okay. And those would have gone out in direct mail is that is that right? There will be mail pieces. So in our initial studies, we had people in our studies read those appeals in the context of an actual experiments. And in the university fund-raising study, those messages went out in direct mail. So those messages were at the very top of what people saw. And at the very bottom, right before they made or messages like that break before they made their donation decision. Okay, okay. So, really, you know, a zeiss ed? The research applies to the affluent as well as the non affluent or less up. However you want to describe it, you want your messaging to be appropriate, and we’re introducing sort of a new variable. I think that or at least one that i have not scene which is messaging by wealth level here. Yes, that’s. Right. So i research really does show that thinking about or knowing something about the socioeconomic status or background of potential donors, i can provide one clue about the types of messages or appeals that might be more effective for for a different different groups. And again, this really fits with what we know in psychology about how well shapes the way we think about ourselves. So we know again, that’s the kind of reiterate we know that lower income individuals on average and we’re always talking about general, is to think about the world in a way that’s, more relational. How can i fit in with my community? How can i make a difference fight by being part of my group where hyre social status hyre hyre more wealthy individuals tend to think about right standing out from the crowd and how they can show their uniqueness or economy in their lives. So i think, knowing just a little bit about how well shapes the way people think about themselves is an important clue as to how we might want to frame charitable giving or messages of round fund-raising to encourage e-giving among both groups, andi, i also think that it’s important, so i think i mean, again, the idea of tailoring messages isn’t new, but i do think that this a gent iq framing this sort of focus on personal achievement or self, you know, control sort of seems teo conflict with the way that we think about charitable giving as something that together we all help an important cause. And so i think it’s important to another kind of important message embedded in this work, but sometimes we need to step beyond encouraging people to do things that have positive outcomes, like give charity or healthy for positive reasons, and instead focus on encouraging people to do positive behavior for reasons. That fit with their pre existing values on goals. I don’t know if it was your new york times op ed with your with your co researchers or was one of the pieces i read, you know, your insight could see you’re concerned about being contrary to the morality of charitable giving and that concept of community, but but i understand your concern, but we can we can help the community by tailoring the message appropriately, the way the way you’re describing, um i wanted to ask where we just have about two minutes left. Ashley so where now is your your research going to be heading? Is there going to be more in the in the fund-raising realm? Lorts yes, so i’m starting a major project now, looking at how we can encourage e-giving early on, so how can we encourage mindsets, associate with generosity and giving for kids? And what and what also our conversations? How did conversations between children and parents shape not on ly the way that kids think about the importance of giving but also shaped parents own behavior, so we want often and still in our children the important values that we care about. And we want to know how conversations about e-giving not only affect the way that children prissy e-giving but also affect care and some behavior, but they’re looking to their kids, they’re trying to instill important values to their families and in that could be reminded about the importance of philanthropy, and this interest really came out of a lot of research we did that didn’t work, trying to change people’s minds about giving or the importance of thinking about contributing back to the community, sort of later on in length that we were serving high net worth donors, individuals with hyre levels of wealth, and we found that some wealthy individuals who are more generous tend to think about their success is being drive from the situation from help from others on dh that that seemed to be powerful component on what afflict e-giving but when we tried to take that insight into the field and leverage it to encourage charitable giving were large and successful, one important question then becomes, how can we encourage this? You know, more communal mind set more community focused way of thinking early on before people become financially successful or go through education. And so have become really interested in my collaborators, and i have become really interested in serious about the rule of conversations, the powerful role of conversations, about e-giving early on, both for kids and for parents. And so those are some of the ideas that i’m going to be blurring of the next several years. Alright, excellent good explained like a true professor on, but i hope you just hope you’re not going to rob our children of their youth. We’re not gonna we’re not gonna do it let’s not go to that extent when as you as you in this children for your research work errantly designing about e-giving game. Okay e fine. And also i’m alright. Parents need not be worried toe have their children participate. All right, we have to leave it there. Actually, whillans congratulations on your new phd. You can. You can follow ashley at ashley whillans. Thank you so much for sharing and being a part of non-profit radio. Actually, thanks so much. And congratulations. Thank you so much for having me. Real pleasure. All right, take care. Your board’s role in executive hiring with jean takagi is coming up first. Pursuant, they’re infographic it is five steps to win at data driven fund-raising this infographic would probably be the on the other end of the spectrum from the type of research that we were just talking about with ashley, because this is going this distill things in, you know, five simple steps, which is not what academic research is, but while still valuable all data driven because, you know, pursuing tell you every week data driven they have, they have this infographic that will help you define your goal and what the most important metrics are and optimizing and tuning fine tuning for best results, learning through infographic, you can learn from academic research you can learn through in infographic because you are a you’re a lifetime lerner, and you’re a flexible learner, so don’t ignore the ends of the spectrum and the infographic and the peer reviewed academic research from the folks at pursuing dot com. You go there and then you click resource is then info graphics. We’ll be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. You need more money for your good work. I know you do throw a spelling bee. Anybody can throw a party generic party well, maybe not. Anybody? I mean, i’ve been to some bad parties, but most anybody could throw a decent party but a spelling bee party that takes it to the next level with live music and dancing that’s a that’s, a true party and fund-raising, of course, for your because your your mission, your good work. Check out the video at we b e spelling dot com, then talk to the ceo it’s that simple. Alex greer now tony steak too. The charleston principles. My video is from charlotte, but the principles are from charleston, and i decided that they share enough common letters. First five teo to do a video inspired by charleston even though i was in charlotte and charlotte, north carolina, nicer town. I’ve been there many overnights and there when i shot the video and i’ve never been to charleston, but i can tell from the pictures charlotte’s nicer, i couldjust north carolina, i can see that i see from the pictures the charleston principles there’s a love that has nothing to do with you should’ve fast forward it best that all right, here’s, what we’re talking about charleston principles right now, it’s all about charity registration the state you know where you got to be properly registered need state where you solicit donations. All that charleston principles have some very good ideas and definitions of solicitation problem is it’s hard to tell which states have adopted them of largely, but i can help you. Check out the video at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two now. It’s. Time for jean takagi on your boards role in executive hiring jean takagi he’s with us. You know him? He’s, the managing editor, attorney at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the very popular non-profit law block dot com on twitter he’s at g tak g ta ke jin takagi welcome back, alt-right onen congratulations on one ninety nine. I’m looking forward to two hundred next week. Cool. Yes. I’m glad you’re gonna be calling in for with us. Thank you very much. Thank you, it’s. Very exciting. Really? One hundred ninety nine shows ago. It’s one hundred ninety nine weeks it’s it’s. Remarkable. We’re talking this week about the board’s role in hiring the executive. And i’ve i understand that there are a lot of executives in transition, i think. So tony and it looks like some surveys have confirmed that it’s certainly been an experience with some of my clients and even on boards i’ve sat on over the last couple years, and there’s, a great group called compass point out in san francisco there, nationally known as one of the most respected non-profit support centers and together with blue avocado, a non-profit online publication, they have a national survey on leadership succession in transition going on just right now. The last time they published the results was in two thousand eleven, and they found that sixty seven percent of current executive anticipated leaving within five years and ten percent. We’re currently actively looking to leave right then, and in two thousand eleven, the economic times weren’t so were so great, so sixty seven percent anticipating leaving within five years that’s a pretty staggering number. So now we’re already three years into that survey into that five year projection. Yeah, and sixty seven percent of two thirds. So if we had held this show off until two thousand sixteen, then it would have been moved. But there’s a new one coming out, you said, yeah, well, they’re they’re just starting the survey online now so you can participate on that. I don’t know the website, but if you, you know google non-profit transition survey executive transition survey, thank you, you’ll get that okay, and its compass point it’s a compass point and blew up a goddamn kottler who you’ve. You’ve mentioned blue vaccaro before i know. All right, so, yeah, two thirds of of ceos were expecting to be in transition within five years and where we’re only three years into it now. So the presumably these people are still looking. What? But boards don’t really spend enough time preparing for this kind of succession, do they? Well, you know, in many cases they don’t, and sometimes, you know, they might stay, they don’t get the chance because their executive director comes up to him and give him two weeks notice. And now, you know, the board may be used to meeting every month or every other month or even every third month, and now all of a sudden they’ve gotta ramp up their efforts and find an executive to come in in two weeks. That’s going to be really tough to do on dh, you know, again, if we say at any given time, two thirds of the non-profit executives are looking to leave their job, you know, it’s very likely that within your board term, you know, you may have an executive transition to manage, and sometimes with very little notice. So that’s that’s? Why? I think succession planning is just really a core duty of non-profit board. Well, how do we let them get away with this two week notice? I mean, the ones i typically see are, you know, the person will stay on until a successor. Is found you that’s, not your experience. Well, you know, you’re really lucky if you if you do get that situation, i think most non-profit executives are hired on at will basis. Meaning that there’s, not a contract to stay there for a given number of years. Either party can conception, rate or terminate the employment relationship at any time. And as the average, you know, employee may give two weeks notice to go on to another job there. Many executives who feel the same way that they, you know, they may feel like they own allegiance to an organization. But another opportunity comes up and it’s not going to be held for them forever. And they may want to move on. Um, and they may feel like what they gave the board really advanced notice that they might be looking for something that they might get terminated. So they may keep that information from the board until the last two weeks. Well, because all right, so that i am way in the dark because i would. I just presumed that executive directors, ceos even if small and midsize shops were not at will. But they were but that they were contract i mean, when i was a lonely back in my days of wage slavery, director of planned e-giving i was in at will employees, which means you can end it like you said, you could end at any time and so can they like, if they don’t like the color of your tie one day they can fire you, you’re at will. But but that that’s typical for for ceos and executive directors. Yeah, i think for smaller non-profits it’s very, very common. Oh, i just always assumed that these were contract positions with termination clause is and no, okay, but, i mean, you know, it’s, your practice, i’m not i’m not disagreeing with you, i’m just saying i’m okay, i’m learning something s o that’s that’s incredibly risky. So it is. It put you in that position of saying, well, i need to replace somebody immediately and i don’t you know, as a board we don’t meet very often can we even convene within the two weeks to start the process going? It’s going to be so much better if you had a plan of what happens in case you know, our executive every doesn’t give two weeks notice, and even if the executive says, you know, in your scenario, maybe a longer notice, maybe, you know, in six months, if they do have a contract at the end of my contract, i don’t plan to renew, you know, i think we should go through the process of looking for for a successor and having a plan or thinking about that plan that have just coming up with something on the fly is going to probably result in a much better choice for selection of a leader in the future and that’s going to be critical and how well the organisation operates and how the beneficiaries of your organization are going to do are they going to get the benefits of a strong organization, or are they going to suffer because the organization can’t do it? You can’t advance to commission as well as it should? No, i mean, you’re you’re calling it on the fly. I would say two weeks notice for an executive director, departing is a crisis, even four weeks notice. Yeah, in many cases, you’re absolutely right. Okay, i’m right about something. Thank you. You’ve got something right today. All right. So, um what do we what do we do, teo, to plan for this? Well, you know, i think the first thing the board has to do is start toe think about the contingencies. So what do we do and and actually want one thought that comes to mind that, uh, that you raised tony is should we get our executive director on an employment contract? If they are and that will employee do we want to walk it in? And they’re sort of pros and cons with that? If you’ve got, like, not the best executive director in the world, terminating somebody on a contract becomes much, much more difficult than if they were at will employees. So, you know, you kind of have to weigh the pros and cons, but, you know, revisiting your current executive director and the employment relationship is maybe step one, and suddenly he was thinking about, well, do you have a really strong job description that really reflects what the board wants of the executive director and the basis on which the board is reviewing the executives performance? And maybe the sort of initial question to ask in that area is do you actually review? The executive director and that the board you absolutely should. You and i have talked about that the board’s is not part of their fiduciary duty to evaluate the performance of the the ceo? Yeah, i think so. I think it’s a core part of meeting their fiduciary duties that really, you know, as a board, if you meet once a month or once every couple of months or whatever. What’s more important, you know, then really selecting the individual who’s going to lead the organization in advancing its mission and its values, and implementing your plans and policies and making sure the organization complies with the law. Taking your leader is probably the most important task that the board has, because the board is delegating management to the to that leader. Yeah, absolutely. And i think it’s often forgot naralo overlooked that individual board members inherently have no power and no authority to do anything so it’s only a group when they meet collectively, can they take aboard action? So for individuals to exercise, you know, powers on behalf of the organization that has to be delegated to them and typically the person responsible for everything is that ceo or the executive director. We’re gonna go out for a break, gene. And when we come back, you now keep talking about the process. The what? What goes into this process, including the job offer. So everybody stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets too. He finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Time. Dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Got to send live listener love let’s. Start in japan with tokyo kiss or a zoo and nagoya. Konnichiwa, seoul, south korea, seoul, some someone south korea, always checking in love that anya haserot. Moscow, russia, mexico city, mexico, ireland. We can’t see your city ireland’s being masked for some reason, but we know you’re there. Welcome, welcome, ireland, and also taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, nobody from china, that’s, funny, nobody from china today, coming back to the u s we got cummings, georgia, in ashburn, virginia. Live listener love to you in georgia and virginia. Okay, gene. So now we’ve let’s say, we’ve learned that our exec is departing and let’s not make it a crisis situation, though let’s say this person is generous enough to give six months notice. So, you know, let’s, not make it a crisis. Where what’s our what’s, our what’s, our first step as the board. Terrific. And i’ll just add, even if you don’t, if you know your executive is not leaving any time soon and i think you should go ahead and start this process anyway. Oh, yeah, clearly we should be. We should have a succession plan in place. Yes, we’ve talked about it, right? Okay, yes, i think the first thing to do is get a committee together so it might include boardmember some outside experts outside with the board. If you don’t have that internal expertise and just getting different perspectives out there, some of your other stakeholders might be really important in what? You know what you want to look for in an executive in the future. So get that committee together first. Get the buy-in of the current executive director bonem so unless it’s going to be, you know, a succession plan for a termination? Yeah, we’re really unhappy with executive director, right? Let’s not get into that. Yeah, let’s get their buy-in and have them help in the process. Especially with your scenario where they’re giving us six months notice and everything is amicable. Let’s, you know, see she who knows better about the organization than the executive director that’s in place right now. So i’m getting there buy-in and help and contribution. I think it is pivotal. Does this committee have to be comprised of hr experts? Why? I think having a least one or two hr experts is going to be really helpful. But i i think it’s more than that. It’s, you need to program people who understand what the executive you know roll is with respect to advancing the program. You need the fund-raising people to know well, what is the going to do with respect to fund-raising perhaps the seeds, the lead fundraiser and some small organizations as well. So we need thio gather a bunch of different people with different perspectives and expertise to figure this out. And i think that’s a very good point to include a t least a programme expert. Now, could this committee include employees, or does it have to be sure you can i absolutely on dh, you know, you might even have have have different subcommittees in there. So eventually this is going to go up to the board. But as the the committee is doing the legwork for determining what you need an executive director and putting together a job description and, you know, perhaps, but the performance evaluation is going to be based on for the future executive director all those things can get, you know, be be aided by the contribution from several areas. Okay, okay, what are your thoughts on hiring a recruiter vs vs? Not well, you know, i think it depends upon what the organization’s resource is our and the organization should understand the marketplaces in a swell hiring two great executive director is the competitive thing, so, you know, if you’ve got a lot of resources and you’re able to you want to allocate an appropriate amount of resource is tio what i think again is making one of your most important decisions of the board? I don’t think you want to do this on the cheap at all. I’m just the same way i didn’t want you to do it on the fly or or or are in a rush matter-ness think you want to invest in this and you don’t have great expertise inside about things, about like, doing job interviews and doing background checks. On the sex thing, you know how to differentiate between one candidate and another when they all look good on paper and when they’re maybe professional interviewees, but they’re not. There may be not great leaders. How do you figure all those things that if you don’t know that on executive search firm could be a great help and it can just open up the marketplace of potential candidates as well? Especially if they, you know, decide to do a regional or even a national search, it really can ramp up hu hu you’re going see in front of you and the quality of the candidates that this election comedian the board eventually will have to choose from. Okay, does the committee now come up with a couple of candidates to bring to the board? Or is it better for the committee to choose one and bring that person to the board? How does this work? You know, i think the committee should be tasked with bringing several candidates up on sometimes it may be a multi tiered process so they might go through two rounds of screening, for example, and and at least let the board see who’s made. The first cut, and then and then, you know, present to the board, the final, perhaps two or three candidates. If you’ve got, you know, ones that are very close and in quality in terms of what the board want in an executive director, i think that’s pivotal. I wanted to add one thing, though. I’ve seen this done before, tony and i don’t really like it and that’s when. If a search committee or search consultant comes up and says, you know, to the board, tell me what you want in a good executive director, everybody you know, spend five minutes, write it down and send it to me, or you take it home and email it to me and tell me what you want. And then the search consultant collates the the the answers and then that’s, you know, the decision about that’s what’s going to be the qualities you’re going to look for. I think this needs a lot of discussion and deliberation and the value of, you know that that thought process and that really difficult thinking and getting all those generative questions out there is going to produce a much better product in terms of what you’re looking for and who you can get and how you’re going to do it. Yeah, you you send this tio use email and, you know, it’s going to get the typical attention that an e mail gets, like a minute or something, you know, it’s it’s going to get short shrift. And your point is that this is critical. It’s it’s, the leader of your organization you want do you want the contributions of the committee to be done in, like, a minute off the top of their head just so they can get the email out there in box? Yeah, definitely. We could talk about board meetings and another show, but put this at the front of the meeting and spend, you know, seventy five percent of your time talking about this. This is really, really important, okay, you have some thoughts about compensation, and we just have a couple minutes left. So let’s let’s say we’ve the board has well, i can’t jump there yet. Who should make the final call among these candidates? Is it the board? Yeah, i think it should be the board that makes the final approval, but they they’re going to put a lot of weight based on what the executive of the search committee, you know, tell them who they’re you know, the recommendation is okay, and i think that toe add one more thing to it is make sure the organization looks good to clean up your paperwork and your programming and even your facilities. Just make sure you’re going to be attractive to the candidate as well, because if you want to attract the best, you better be looking your best as well. Okay, okay. And the with respect to compensation now, we’ve talked about this before. What? What’s excessive. And there should be calms and things like that, right? So it’s really important to make sure that the board or unauthorized board committee one that composed just board members, approved the compensation before it’s offered to the candidate. Even if you don’t know that they’re going accepted or not, once he offers out there that compensation package, total compensation should have been approved by the board. And you want to do it with using the rebuttable presumption of reasonableness procedures unless you know its far below market value. Okay, if you get payed accessibly or if you pay somebody excessively, there could be penalty taxes for everybody. Including the board. Should be careful of that. We have talked about that rebuttable presumption before. Yeah. All right, jean, we have to leave that there. I look forward to talking to you next week on the two hundredth great. Congratulations again. And i look forward to it as well. Thank you, gene. Gene takagi, managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group, his blog’s non-profit law block dot com, and on twitter. He is at g tak next week. Social change. Anytime, everywhere, part one with our social media contributor, amy sample ward. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com creative producer is clear. Myer half family bullets is the line producer durney mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for November 21, 2014: Ask When Not Asking & What Are The Wealthy Thinking?

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Marci Brenholz: Ask When Not Asking

Marcy Brenholz at Fundraising Day 2014
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Glen Macdonald & Stacy Palmer: What Are The Wealthy Thinking?

Glen Macdonald & Stacy Palmer at Fundraising Day 2014
Glen Macdonald & Stacy Palmer at Fundraising Day 2014

Stacy Palmer & Glen Macdonald dish on the changing landscape of philanthropy: what giving habits persist and what new trends are developing. Stacy is editor of The Chronicle of Philanthropy and Glen is president of Wealth & Giving Forum


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure scleroderma if i had the itchy feeling that you missed today’s show ask when not asking strong riel donor-centric programs will save you money because you’ll hold onto existing donors rather than having to find new ones. Marcy brenholz knows how she is director of development at the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention that was recorded at fund-raising day two thousand fourteen this past june. And what are the wealthy thinking stacy palmer and glenn mcdonald dish on the changing landscape of philanthropy? What e-giving habits persist and what new trends are developing? Stacy is editor of the chronicle of philanthropy and glenn is president of wealth and giving forum that’s, also from fund-raising day on tony’s take two thank you, responsive by generosity. Siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks here is my interview with marci marci brenholz on asked when you’re not asking. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen, we’re at the marriott marquis hotel in times square, new york city with me now is marcy brenholz her seminar topic is howto ask when you aren’t asking. Morsi is director of development for the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention. Marcy brenholz welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Good to be here. Thank you. What a pleasure to have you how teo latto asking. You aren’t asking what are what are non-profits not quite getting right about stewardship. Well, i think you know, in this day and age, we have a lot of focus on acquisition and acquisition is really expensive. So there’s direct costs like buying lists. If you’re doing direct mail there’s also staff costs for prospect research and things like that. It’s a lot less expensive toe hold onto the donors you already have. But it’s not the easiest thing to do. So in the seminar, i’m going to kind of break it down into two things that you can do. What is getting your house in order at your organization? So meaning your acknowledgement processes streamlined. You have a great way of recognizing staff might redo your cash reports, some kind of really boring things, like that make an assessment of what kind of stewardship each department is doing. If you’re a bigger organization on dh, then the more fun part of it is to think about what you have to offer to your donor’s that’s really special? Do you have access to celebrities? And that doesn’t necessarily mean, you know, beyonce and jay z. It could be an expert in the field where you work. It could be a great event that you do. You could add on opening session for special donors. There could be travel any number of things that you can do to make donors really feel like they’re part of your work. All right, so why don’t we start with the, uh, the more dry but still important? Yeah, right? You’ve got to get yourself in order before you could go outside. Yeah, we have a good amount of time together. So that’s, where should we start with assessing? I mean, how do we figure out where we’re what do we need to look at? You figure out where we are and then we’ll look at where we gotta go. Yeah, well, i think it depends on the size of your organization. So the case study that i’m going to use is from the u s fund for unicef, where i worked for about three and a half years. It’s a bigger organization, a bigger staff. So what we did is we put together a working group. I mean, people hear the word words working group and just generally roll their eyes, but sometimes they can be effective. We made sure we had representation from all of our departments. And during the first meeting, we just talked about what we thought would be challenging for donors. Attention, soda place. Like the us fund, for instance, we acquired a lot of donors to emergencies the indian ocean tsunami, the haiti earthquake, et cetera. And then we really struggled to have plans about holding on to those donors. Okay, so we talked a lot about whether we were being donor-centric as an organization. So on a two inch of you, you’re my second of you so far from the first one was all about donor-centric zm he was ceo of food for the poor in florida on concerned about donor-centric sametz well, but trying to make it true, not just not just a flash phrase that doesn’t really have a meaning behind it yeah, it’s kind of a buzz word, but you know, the way i think about being donor-centric and if it’s not kind of resonating for you, every fundraiser kind of has low moments, you know? Why did i why did i become a fundraiser? Why am i doing this on dh for me going back to being donor-centric can make you feel better in a way if you think about why donors are given to you and how much of their time and personal resource is there devoting because they believe in your cause, it makes you want to be donor-centric it makes you want to be a good friend in a way, you know, if you have a friend who’s, incredibly supportive and thoughtful, who remembers your birthday always asks you about important things in your life, you know, who shows up at your party with a great hostess gift every time, and then you do nothing in return, you’re not being a good friend, so that’s like being donor-centric if the donor is so generous to you, but you’re not respectful of his or her wishes, you know? You’re just not doing the right thing, there’s such a thing is doing the right thing so well, where should we look specifically to determine whether we are doing the right thing? Well, our marketing communications our, which includes the website print and, you know, let’s, let’s, drill down to some some of the things we should be looking at. Specifically, i think probably where to start is financial accountability that’s also kind of a buzz word these days, i think, but making sure that you’re letting your daughter so and this is the drier stuff again, this is the getting your house in order, making sure that your donor’s know where their money is going and making sure that you’re respecting where they told you they wanted it to go. You know, there’s some great donors who say here’s, some money, i don’t care what you do, it could be operating costs, it can be salaries, and then there are other donors who say no, i really wanted to go to the specific program and we have to make sure that we’re being a countable to the donors on and i liked your work too respectful, yeah, respectful of what their wishes when when they do don’t make a designation right back to the friendship example, you know, it’s just what’s the right thing in the friendship. In the exchange you mentioned website it’s a great point, you know, there are all of these charity rating organizations now, including charney navigator, who look at two things they look at your your finances so they’ll read through your audited financial statements in your nine nineties. They also want to see certain things posted on your website, and that includes your audits and your nine nineties on dure leadership staff. And you have to really be telling donors how you run your organization and not be afraid of letting them, and i think we’re often afraid that donors will find something out about us that they don’t like and that’s what marketing communications has forts it’s for telling the story, but you really do have to be pretty open with your donors. I think in the more sophisticated days where we live, so making sure that that stuff is up on your website is great for ratings on charity navigator, but again, it’s just the right thing to do. Also interesting. Parallel about not not fearing letting donors in. I think of a parallel with social media know what? Everybody’s got a facebook page now, but the early fear was what if donors post comments that we don’t like, right? And there haven’t been many instances of that, and when it does happen, it’s an open communication and if it’s, of course, if it’s blatant and doesn’t belong, that can always be eliminated. Deleted but but that’s that’s the that’s, the that’s, the rare rare exception yeah, no it’s it’s a conversation, right? It’s it’s a dialogue, and so we shouldn’t fear the openness. And now facebook pages are rampant but seven hundred wherever five or seven years ago probono heimans many, seven, five, four, five years ago, the fear was when we can’t let donors post on our our our new facebook page, they might say things we don’t like, right? Yeah, reputational risk is obviously huge and the problem with the google accessible world right? Is that you confined if there was a faux pas non-profits passed it’s just like any person it’s going to be on the internet? So if some risk to your effort, reputation occurs it. Lasts forever, so it makes a lot of sense that we’re apprehensive, but i think you’re making a great point if someone comes out, whether it’s on your facebook page or if they send you a private message and says i’m really worried about some aspect of your business practices, i’m really worried about your program design it’s a great opportunity to be able to say, you know what? This is how we really do it. Let’s, let’s have a conversation. So yeah, i mean, it’s a lot to manage its a lot more to manage than we’ve ever had, but i agree, it’s a good opportunity to be out there on that person who’s saying that to you cares about you? Yeah, if they didn’t care, they were just written you off and said they’re screwing it up, you know? I’m not gonna bother, but they do care enough to to learn and maybe and they’re even trying to help. Yeah, and just to bring it back to donor intention to kind of tar tar topic, if someone cares and they have a concern and you address it, you probably have that person for life, right? I mean, you if you’re honest, if you’re open, if you’re thoughtful about how you’re telling your story, you’re going to be able to hang onto two donors and it’s better in the long run for your business. What else should we be doing? Internal e-giving getting our own house in order? Welchlin look, so i think once you’re kind of clear they are out there that you’re financially accountable than a lot of what i encountered when i was looking at stewardship again, i’m using the us fundez and fundez an example, but there’s this’s applicability. Other places, too, is how motivated staff were to retain donors, so sometimes that way organisations put together their cash report or the way that they recognize fundraisers might recognize acquisition more than it recognizes retention. So just making sure that you’re you’re making sure that it’s really a priority for your staff and they’re being recognized and evaluated on the right, the right kind of metrics, right attention as well as acquisition? Yeah, exactly and internally, a lot of organizations have started to measure their retention, but they don’t necessarily measure upgrades or donorsearch atis faction and i’m just going to name check here because this is not something that i thought of this is actually from karen osborne of the osborne group, and these are her recommendations specifically to measure retention upgrades and donorsearch atis faction as a wayto make sure that you have a healthy stewardship for donor relations program going on, so some organizations are not even measuring retention necessarily. So that’s a great place to start, but measuring how often you’re moving, the donors up the pipeline that’s also really helpful, and then whether or not donors think that your mission is crucial whether they feel that you’re one of their top five organizations, how committed are they to you that reflects on how you’re communicating with them? How do you how do you judge these things? Well, if you have a donor database again, i’m talking about a little bit of a bigger organization. You can actually run reports on these kinds of things. You can set them up in an ornament. Sorry. That’s what i meant. Donors feel that your mission is critical. Are you one of their top five charities? That’s gotta be done by survey conversation. Yeah. So if you want to do, you can do a doner satisfaction survey with smaller donors, you can do it online, but you can also sit down when you’re talking about major donors are board members you, khun do individual interviews with them where you’re really not asking them? So why i called the session howto ask when you’re not asking, i hope everyone doesn’t show up and think, oh good, i don’t have to solicit anymore marcie’s going to tell me how it’s more, what are the moves that you’re doing in between? The asks that are making the donor feel really good and really invested in you? So sitting down and talking to them about what they think about the organization without asking them to write a check is could be a good move, you know that old saying if you want to ask for money, ask for advice, it’s like that? Yeah, so you would do it face to face or you could do, you know, an online survey or something like that and agree maybe to do it every two or three years, you know what i’m talking about really takes a lot of resource is and not every small organization, so now i’m a one. Person shop at my new job on dh. This kind of thing is probably going to be a little bit more challenging than it was when i had more research. Resource is at a bigger place, so there’s that, too. But you’re going, you’re going to find a way. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Now, so one person fund-raising shop, you are talking to donors a lot. Yeah, so? So some of these questions could weave their way into your daily conversations with donors. Maybe not everyone, right? But you can sample, right? Yeah. And one of the things that i’m doing so there was ah, one year gap between development directors at the ralph lauren center. So some of the things that i’m doing there are sort of resurrecting some relationships that we had before. And i’m making sure that there’s no stone unturned if you’ve given money to us before, if you cared about us before, i’m going to try to bring you back. You can’t be successful all the time. You’re gonna lose some donors. People’s circumstances change. It might have nothing to do with your organization. But it’s really important to make sure that you’re being very methodical about renewing let’s let’s, switch to the more fun the donor side of good donorsearch worship. Yeah, so i had a great experience again at the u s fund for unicef. Where i put together are a major donor e-giving society now abel he managed by another colleague at the us fund-raising donors we decided to talk to our board members about what they might like to see. So when you structure a major donor giving society, you’re basically putting together a list of tiered benefits and that’s also an important part of putting your house in order. What are you offering to donors? A different levels is a consistent who are the donors that your leadership and board members need to be involved with? And you have plans for howto steward those donors. So with us one farina’s have is lucky they have a lot of board members, so they have a national board and then seven regional board. So some people may say that’s very unlucky that’s true. Thankfully, it was thankfully was fortunate for the for the us fund. These board members are great. I’m a board relations person, so right, i think that’s great and some people think it’s a nightmare. Now i have an eight person board, so i’ve, you know, i’ve gone on, but they have about probably about one hundred twenty five port members between all those groups, and we did some surveying of them and i’m not saying that these air the answers you would get from every a group of board members, but this is the kind of thing that, like on your terrible worst day, you just think about it and feel good. These board members were like, i don’t care about recognition that’s fine, i just want to be more connected to the mission. I just want to talk, teo, the workers in the field and really understand what you do. They were looking for these really meaningful engagement opportunities. It wasn’t like, oh, yeah, i’d like a tote bag or i’d really like to meet beyonce when i’m named checking her, maybe she’ll call me, uh, you know, they really wanted more programmatic depth, and they also wanted to network and connect with each other, so we tried to build benefits that felt a little bit less transactional and more i’m kind of life affirming. Like what? What? What were a couple of examples? Well, you know, again, this is not something that everyone can offer, but travel to the field is an example at a certain ok, but a small organization, maybe maybe it’s not travel to on exotic country, but maybe welcome to the to our office. Yeah. To the place where we’re serving people that you’ve never seen yu know we internally take it for granted because it’s on the floor below us who’s down the hall, but our donors have never seen it however modest you may think it is. It might mean the world to the donor to be invited. Absolutely, i mean at the ralph lauren center. So i work on site at the cancer center it’s in harlem on one hundred twenty fourth and madison, i’ll be honest, a lot of donors don’t go up to that neighborhood very often because of the involvement of ralph lauren. The center is really beautiful looking, and i love walking in there every day and seeing the patients in the in the waiting room, not it’s, a very unhappy time for the patients, but i feel really connected to them into the mission, and we do a lot of site visits at the ralph lauren center. Before unicef, i worked at a education non-profit called learning leaders, and we did school volunteerism, so we used to do a lot of site visits to schools, and that was great. And whenever i was feeling kind of disconnected. Elearning leaders, i would get up and go to a school and be like, okay, this is why i’m doing this, so yeah, the travel with units of the little sexier right, every charity has got someplace that you can come. Yes, absolutely. Or some meeting that you can come to that you haven’t previously been invited too. Yeah, something is going on at your charity. I just went teo, a special events training session at robin hood. So the ralph lauren center is a robin, but grantee on the special event staff was sharing that their donors love to come to their office and just see where the work is done. So just just the administrative, like, ministerial type officers. Yeah, i mean, the stuff that the people who work there take for granted every day that has no interest. I mean, it has interested them, but it would never think of inviting an outsider. But you got it. We got stop thinking like that. They’re not outsiders, they’re insiders, and we want to welcome them. Welcome to the workplace. Yeah, you do it one day a month, who have a bunch of invite a bunch of people and have a breakfast and maybe you know that that half a day a month becomes mohr donor-centric yeah, then the other nineteen and a half workdays that you have in the book. Yeah, absolutely. And i think that’s why i found the responses from the board members of the u s funds so encouraging, they were saying exactly what you’re saying. We want to know how you do your work. We want to really drill down with you. We’re not necessarily looking for a lots of glitzy stuff we want we want the day to day and it kind of relates financial accountability also fixing your bike so it doesn’t fall off table, right? I’m i’m getting violent with my mike. I’m better that way. Yeah, although we’re close enough, you could. But if you should appreciate, you’re not breaking down that you haven’t done anything. Yeah, it’s been it’s been ok? Not feeling your mind myself across the line either of this relates back to financial accountability again, if we’re afraid to let donors in, then they’re not going to come closer to us and we want them to be closer. That’s not every single donor, but the important. Ones and the ones who care. So yeah. That’s. The interesting part that was so us fund for unicef. It was travel abroad. Make clear that it could be traveling to your administrative office. Yes. What else? What else did you do on the outside? It could be also in individualized reporting. So back to how donors want their money spent. You know, a lot of us do kind of ah, general operating support report, which is okay, but at certain levels, you really want to make sure that you’re doing an individualized report and, you know a lot, i think most of us do this, but that was included because unicef being such a big place, sometimes people were getting a more generalized report and not feeling like we were really drilling down into the program that they wanted to support. Then we did a couple of other things, like at the higher levels dinner hosted by a boardmember dinner hosted by the global unicef executive director. So that thing that i said about celebrities before a lot of people think that tony lake who’s, the executive director of unicef globally, is a celebrity in the world of you. Know, international charitable work people really want to meet mr lake and he’s more of an academic than he is anything else but that’s really interesting to donors. So we did travel to see unicef’s work in the field, and then unicef has some other interesting international properties to visit there’s, a research center in florence there’s a supply division in copenhagen, so travel to those places also, which is again inner workings. Okay, way covered travel. Yeah, but but your phone is ringing. I think it was beyonce. I heard a phone ringing. This is more important. I mean, i’ll get to her after i agree. You’re everything in the world in your life has brought you to this moment. Exactly don’t want to surrender it to be on no side. It might have been someone else’s phone. I heard that you could actually be calling. I always keep mine on site could be calling somebody else. I’m sorry, it’s. All right, you’re next on the list. I’m sure i’m sure i’m sure up. What else? Way put on there. So receptions before big events for having a gallery. You don’t spend a lot of money to add a small reception before you’ve already got the space, the caterer is already coming. Yeah, marginal cost of that before or after reception, especially when you’re putting on a bigger event on that gets to the donors wanting to network with each other and to know each other. They don’t always get to be in the same place either. And, you know, a boardmember meeting or another kind of meeting isn’t always the best place to network. So something like that, which is a lot of my my work is planned e-giving consulting way. Do a lot of those vips receptions before the larger event? Right? Another thing that doesn’t cost much is v i p seating at an event? Yeah, it costs nothing. It cost the couple strips of masking tape. Yeah, mask often area and and have vips seating for an event you’ve already paid for the tickets. For you’ve already got the seats rope off ten or twelve seats for vips. People feel like the world way because the i p c yeah, and, you know, what’s funny about that. We’re already doing it right when you think about it. When you’re doing your gallus eating, you are putting your most important people in the front, but they don’t know that we’re not revealing our methods. So if you make that a little more open and say by the way we’re going to, we’re gonna give you the best seats here this important, i think, you know, we’re continuing on that theme of tell your donors what you’re doing, and it might make them feel good, so yeah, great. Ok. Ok. What else? We still have a couple minutes left. Marcie. What? What else? What else can we talk about? Well, we could talk about volunteer opportunities. Maybe. I think that that is a big saying. That’s emerging volunteers helping with stewardship donors having volunteer opportunities to make you feel more engaged. Because i think it’s emerging as a theme because corporate supporters often are asking while how can my employees come for a day and do something and it’s a little bit difficult for some organizations to figure out how to do that? I had the luck. This is back. Tio. Sometimes stewardship moves are a little easier at one place or another. A little more obvious. When i worked at a volunteer organization, i got a lot of my donors and my board members through a pipeline of one particular volunteer program, which was an art program, and it just attracted the kind of volunteers who were also able to be donors. Not everybody has that. So ralph lauren center does a lot of stuff with our physical plants, having people come in and paint having people come in and plant flowers outside. You know, i just think it’s important to make sure that you have at least a couple just up your sleeve and ready to go a couple of volunteer opportunities in case either of corporate supporter asks or, you know, a group of boardmember xero group of donors say, i don’t really feel like writing another check. What can i do so that’s, you know, i think that’s big and a lot of donors also want to do things that involve their children and family. Family philanthropy is such a big emerging topic, so if you can think of a program or volunteer opportunity where people can bring their children that’s also huge, we have just a couple of minutes left. What about the board’s role in the stewardship? Yeah, that’s a really good question. Okay, we’ll come up with one. Twenty. Only took me about twenty four minutes. Well, i mean, this is like a house in order. It’s, you know, it’s, the more kind of the more boring stuff. So i had mentioned that bored hosted annual dinner could be an interesting big storage it move. Thank you calls. Thank you. Notes all those kinds of things. I hear that from a lot of guests. Just get the board together, do it for an hour before a meeting. Right? And they’re going to get a great feeling from it themselves. And you’re just right. Just calling to say thank you, thank you. Nothing else. Don’t do don’t do anything more, you know, we’re not asking for anything more. Just calling to say thank you. And and a donor has gotten a call from from a pipe and the organization it’s a boardmember it’s really big it’s big you people. A lot of people in the international world love teo support the carter center because the carter center does great work, but also jimmy carter calls you. I’ve had a bunch of donors like president carter called me. Okay? So not everybody. Has jimmy carter, but it’s still important to hear from, you know, a leadership voice if you much you mentioned the executive director? Yeah, who’s not not really thought of as a celebrity in in in way, popular media, but within the organization within that mission. He’s very well known. Yeah, so it could just be somebody in your office. Exactly. And also, i didn’t mention loyalty recognition. I think calling donors and thanking them for gift that they’ve just given is fantastic. Don’t take that off of your roster, but five years in a row, ten years in a row recalling their thing irrespective of the size of the raft. Is that kind of loyalty? Yeah. Recognition for for the history. Yeah, how gracious and thoughtful is that if you just say thank you for giving to us for five consecutive years, we really appreciate it. That’s it and we didn’t care how much it was. Marcie, thank you very much. We have to leave it there. Thank you. My pleasure. Marcie brenholz. She is director of development for the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention. Thank you very much. More. See again. Thank you. You’re listening. To tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen. Live listener love we got fort lee, new jersey, brooklyn, new york, jersey city, new jersey hutchisson in new jersey might that’s when my dad was born and raised in greenville hospital and has to live on mcadoo have in jersey city, but you probably that’s old jersey city, new york, new york, washington, d c live listener love to everyone let’s, go abroad paris, france bourgeois iran is with us live listener love to you. So is toronto, ontario and king city, ontario in canada, of course, tokyo connie chua beijing and she on in china. Ni hao and seoul, korea on your haserot we have a couple of others too, and they’ll be later on generosity siri’s you know them because they host five k runs and walks and i talk about him often two weeks ago. I am seed. They’re new york city event. Last week they were in philadelphia. Nine charities in philadelphia came together, raised seventy five thousand dollars, had a very fun event. The key is none of the nine are big enough to have hosted their own five k run walk. It just wouldn’t have enough people participating, but when the community comes together, great things can happen. Seventy five thousand dollars raised that’s what generosity siri’s does puts charities together in these events, and they have them coming up in new jersey and miami. Devlin is the ceo. Please tell him you’re from non-profit radio you could talk to dave lynn it’s seven one eight five o six nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com i thank you very much for supporting non-profit radio. We’re almost at ten thousand listeners each week very close and i thank you very much for being with us. There isn’t a thanksgiving show next week, so i’m giving my thanks this week to you very much for your support. I have to give a special mention to our outstanding monthly contributors maria semple, jean takagi and amy sample ward. They are so generous with their expertise for the benefit of all of us very, very grateful for them as well. Again, no show next week. This week i thank you very, very much for your support of non-profit radio. And there is a thank you video at tony martignetti dot com that’s tony’s take two for friday twenty first of november forty sixth show of the year here’s my interview with stacy palmer and glenn mcdonald about what the wealthy are thinking. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen we are at the marriott marquis hotel in times square, new york city with me now are stacy palmer and glenn mcdonald. Their workshop topic is whatthe wealthy. What are the wealthy thinking now? It’s a question, not a statement. We’re going to answer that question. Stacy palmer is editor of the chronicle of philanthropy and glenn mcdonald is president of wealth and giving forum stacy glen welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Pleasure to have you, glenn let’s, start with you. What? What? What is this topical? About? What? What? What are the wealthy thinking now? Well, the first thing i want to say as a preface is that we like to categorize the wealthy as a homogenous group, but in fact, that’s really not fair of anybody are very diverse. I’m just like any cohort group that you would mention they spend this political spectrum young and old. You know that wealth can be minute very quickly, especially in silicon valley and and, interestingly enough with on that topic, you know, it is young generation that is spurring new trends. E-giving um, and the number one trend right now is thinking about their philanthropy across everything they do not just in the czechs, they write, meaning how they invest their portfolio and what sort of for-profit cos they invest in ones that they believed that they could be transformation on society. And i think that’s really the number one trend that i see on day are shifting the thinking of their parents and grand parents to be quite frank. And when you say the young, are we thinking of people in their thirties, you know, early, early twenties coming out of college and thinking about the business voices they make the careers, they want to be involved with, the types of companies they want to work for, they want their doing good and doing well and making money to be integrated into one it’s no longer separate, and i think that’s a trend that’s here to stay, and i’m sure we’ve read, you know, in the press in the chronicle philanthropy wall street journal that socially responsible investing and impact and interesting are considered alongside of the donations and grantmaking that foundations are making now. Right now. Stacey, what do you have to add? Early on, i agree that’s one of the big trends, the other thing that some people are starting to talk about is whether there’s a whole third wave of philanthropy coming among the young and whether mark zuckerberg really kick that off and he’s not even thirty yet. Ah, but by giving so much money to the silicon valley community foundation rather than setting up his own foundation, he said a model for the other ways of thinking about giving, not institution building, but really saying i want to do this differently and others may be following his model. So i think we are seeing a pretty big shift. Yeah, glen a third wave. I agree wholeheartedly, i think even before mark zuckerberg duitz warren buffett said, look, rather than build a new private foundation, i’m gonna give my money to bill gates. I respect him. I trust him. I like his work. I like his team he’s built. Why start over? I think, you know, station. I would probably agree that the proliferation of new foundations and new non-profits when a lot of great organizations have already been built, small and large, and everything in between already available to donors and in some respects, by giving to the community foundation what market burghdoff burgers saying, the staff is there, there’s, a lot of programs already in place, and we can be flexible because the community foundation structures allowed for flexibility, not only in the way they given the timing e-giving, but also in the number of programs that are available now. Those watching video will note that the room got darker, durney martignetti non-profit radio, a cz continuing. The overhead lights are flickering, a little bit of that coming on off, but it makes no difference. We persevere here non-profit radio, absolute. Nothing stops us earthquakes, bring them on. We will continue. We are not leaving this set until until we flush this out. Let’s see, let’s, talk a little more stacy about this this third wave, what else? What else characterizes this? You know, i think in addition to things like impact investing, we also see growing interest in merging political giving and philanthropic e-giving and thinking about the various ways that you can use your money to influence change. And of course, as came pain finance limits are basically going away. It’s easier for the wealthy to think about doing that when you think about the scale of their political giving compared to philanthropy, it’s so much smaller anyway, but they’re definitely looking at both ways to do things. I think that’s got good sides and bad sides. The good side is that they’re getting engaged to the bad side is people are starting to worry about whether the plutocrats are setting policy and are starting to hear more about that. I think that could kick back on philanthropy in some pretty serious way, so we have to talk about, you know, sort of are people going to be accused of of trying to sway public policy through their philanthropy and the wealthy, setting the setting, the agenda, setting the research research? Priorities indeed. But the flip side of that, of course, is that we all know that you can’t create change unless you change some systems with everybody influence if he’s been talking about that for so long, so in some ways you would think that they might be applauding the billion years for finally getting more engaged in public policy. But yet we don’t see that going to see you nodding a lot. Yes, absolutely agree, and i think that, you know, in some respects, there is some advocacy and political influence of the wealthy that are looking to take care of themselves by not having more taxes or limiting wreck regulations on businesses, and i think they’re the coke brothers are big example and tom style on the other side of the fence would say, well, yes, but i’m advocating on behalf of those who don’t have but you know that the challenge there is that while i think tom’s tires is well intentioned, that sometimes the billionaire’s advocating on behalf of those that are less fortunate don’t really see the issues at the depth that the underbelly really does and that they should be advocating for themselves and the only way to do that is, you know, frankly, this is getting bleeding out of philanthropy and into a political commentary is through true democracy. And so i think there is an issue and stacy’s spot on and saying, you know, by philanthropy and the ability to raise dot org’s toe, advocate and influence the political process, the challenges that will philanthropy get, you know, a little bit of a black spot when there’s so much goodness like in this room, you go upstairs, there’s a thousand organizations that are doing are wonderful things that nobody hears about it. And you don’t want the non-profit charitable sector and philanthropy world to be viewed as to to link tio, you know, just the wealthy influencing the way the political game happens because the real truth is it’s so much goes on underneath that’s. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Stacy looked like you wanted to add. Well, and i also think part of it too is that there’s so much influenza b that doesn’t have anything to do with politics. And so that is we need to bear keep things in context. Yeah. What else? What else are you planning to your session? Is this afternoon, what else is on your minds for the for the audience? I think one of the things we’ll be talking about is the different ways to appeal to today’s donors and to talk about what kinds of things draw them in it’s not enough just to say that they’re motivated by a particular cause, but what kind of language do you use, teo, get them engaged, you know, do you need to talk about financial metrics when you’re appealing to an investor? Do you need to talk about how you’re fixing things when you’re talking to an entrepreneur? I was talking to a wealth advisor the other day who said she was advising an ophthalmologist, and he looks at everything through what people aren’t seeing because that’s what he does all day, you know, and so trying to think about donors in those ways, um, and what their professional obligations are, that that might shape what it is that they want to hear about how you draw them in and get them engaged. So we’ll talk about tips for doing that so segmenting absolute across your constituencies will want to share and share some of the some. Of those tips, but let’s not hold out on listeners. Well, again, i agree with stacy. You know, you know, the rail challenges that i say that that every individual who is a donor giver investor in for-profit solutions to social issues has his or her own own formula for wanting to give, and it involves the head and the heart and summer, morehead oriented and rational thinking about and they focus on outcomes and measurement more than the emotional joy of that comes sometimes from giving and everything in between. And i think that to stacey’s point and wealth advisers have the same challenge in managing money. They have to figure out what makes the person tick. And i think the most important thing and i think everybody in this room would agree, is what’s most important is the discovery processes, the listening and then the appeal khun b couched in the framework of the individual not in some standard way of of soliciting money asked the listening, listening whether that’s done through social media channels right at our one to one conversation with a survey. Yeah, i think that’s that’s something that i hear on the show often. Is that we’re not active listeners. And you love listeners. I have read of nine thousand of them. I do love them, and i listened to them. But they are sometimes not listening the way they need to be less exactly to their various constituents, whether that’s vendors on one hand or donors on the other. Yeah, someone’s trying to watch that. Okay. Background noise, bleeding in. 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Duitz one further thought i’d be interested in stacy’s perspective on this is i’m just getting to know her. Um, that comes to mind is, is that i’ve seen that the most committed philanthropists that really followed through on a long haul on and staying with heimans developing a strategy and then really staying through with an organization or an innovative not-for-profits leader that’s starting something new or social issues to address is is the ones who really do stay the course and have great impact and have patients for the outcomes. The right outcomes are those that have been introspective and been thought and taking a step back and not do something that’s trendy, but something that really means something to them or their families, but that takes a certain kind of investment and investors who are in for the long term and damp latto had a lot to say about that correct perfect example. Stacey, wait, we all know that one of the things that goes wrong in philanthropy all the time is that people follow the trendy they want to start new organizations and get excited about the next new thing instead of staying for the long haul. And in some ways, what we need to change the culture of philanthropy is to say, there are some of these organizations that are doing great work already if they just had more money and more support from their board members, they could do even more on and that’s not to say that the organization shouldn’t get started, but i think when people come into philanthropy, they just get excited about i’ve got this innovative idea, please back me instead of saying, wait a minute, who’s already doing terrific work and how can i get involved in the board and that’s? One of the things that non-profits really need is committed born members who will get involved and do that kind of thing is, well, it’s not enough just to write a check there’s some sentiment that the, uh, the passion takes over and r r system allows people to start a non-profit as long as they could meet some some not very high threshold requirements from the irs and that we never end up with a proliferation of charities duplicating overlapping rather than the person going through an existing charity and saying if you don’t have an opening for me on the board? Can we can i partner some other way with you exactly about this proliferation of non-profits means that you see that hurting us? Well, i think the stacey’s point at the beginning of this session that, you know, mark zuckerberg and and i added, you know, maura buffet to the mix and there’s more and more that are saying no, that isn’t the right thing, and i think they’re setting that example altum that others are starting to take a step back and ask that question, which is a good trend, and i also think there’s some consulting firms that are starting to encourage non-profits to think about partnerships and merging and consolidating programs into one and gaining scale and leverage across that that’s starting to happen. It’s we need more of it, and some of it was by necessity and some in our great recessional that’s, exactly the wayto nine crisis forced with lower funding and some issues that even someone doubt doubt organizations, you know, that poor performance on their operating budget suffered that that forced the issue. But it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a trend that starting and what we need more of it. You know, no question, yeah, we have an op ed in our current issue that’s actually arguing for that and saying that, you know, really there needs to be more of mergers and acquisitions business in the new non-profit field thie incentives are totally different than in business, but we need to find ways to think about ways for strong organizations to work together, not just because the financial crisis caused it, but for reasons to extend the mission and to think about it that way. And sometimes, you know, we were just talking before about board members it’s often the board that gets in the way of a merger because they don’t want to give up their boardmember ship, we’ve got to find some other incentives for them because there’s plenty of roles for them to get involved. There are precious few consultants i’ve had one on sabrina lamb, i think sabrina lamp consultant’s doing latto advising around merger, acquisition and or even just joint ventures, partnerships and not always for fund-raising purposes, but for a longer time, you know, just mission that mission achievement, there’s that that overlap is, uh, can be hurt can’t be hurting us. Back-up what other? Any other strategies around the the topics of listening? I think one of the things that many fundraisers find challenging is that even if they are the ones who are doing the listening, getting the ceo, getting other people on the staff, teo do that listening is much more of a culture shift home. And so one of the messages i think well osili talk about today is how to engage the chief executive and other people in the organization to see that talking to what it don’t cares about doesn’t mean sacrificing your ethics or, you know, getting in the way of letting the donor dictate the mission it’s just saying, how do you talk to them in a language that they understand and that appeals to them? And maybe they do actually have some good ideas about how you run your organization differently that were worth listening to, but i think you know so often, that’s one of the challenges fundraisers have is they get it, but not everybody in the organization corrected. On the flip side, you might be talking to a donor who is really it’s, a patriarchal matriarch, or maybe even the son. Of daughter of a wealthy family on dh sometimes the whole family’s going to be part of the decision process. So it makes that dynamic and challenge a little bit more complicated, because sometimes family members they seemingly be on the same page till the time comes for the check to be ripping and then there’s some symbol, wait a minute, that’s. Ah, that doesn’t really have it is not in concert with the mission of our private foundation and one orders yes, and the other going there’s no, and so look fundez that that’s why this is a profession i mean fund-raising is a huge challenge. You’ve gotto work the organization on the one hand and step, as stacy pointed out, on the other hand, sometimes the dynamics of the emotional dynamics of one individual donors end or the family dynamics associated with that donor is makes it a interesting challenge. If we’re seriously interested in listening, then we have to be asking questions the answers to which we need to be willing to hear couldn’t and they’re often not, and they’re often not couldn’t have said it better. I mean, you know, that’s why i mentioned the discovery process if that’s not part of the question set, whose else involved in this decision process? I know you have a private foundation to have professionals on the part of the private foundation that are going to influence this. Do you have other family members come teo going to come and weigh in on the decision? And should we be meeting with them and and so forth? There was absolute a lot of times, you know, for smaller and maybe even midsize shops they you need often, i think, an outside adviser to help facilitate this, this this process and a lot of the smaller shops, you know, they don’t just don’t have the wherewithal to bring someone in to facilitate a conversation on the board or conversation among among donors, you know that, and they and they’re so insular in their work that they’re not able to ask these these challenging questions. I think one of the things all non-profits no matter what size they are can seek out is professionals who want to give their time to facilitate something like that. Most people would like to help in organization in various ways, and, you know, we don’t think about the sort of skilled volunteering enough in the ways that people can help out. So i would say, you know, an organization of any size can really reach out to people who can help in that process on dh should be creative and thinking about that rather than just asking for money because you’re right, sometimes you need more that kind of coaching and that sort of thing. Clint, i think one of the things you talked about in our call was thinking about mentors for people who so, you know, thinking about the way people in their profession want to meet other people in their profession and that that’s a good way for non-profits to think about how to find new donors and volunteers, you had a couple of a couple of things on that was, well, we believe the weapon giving form we believe in pierre learning, so wait really exist to encourage greater philanthropy and in that regard now our sweet spot is emerging philanthropists. But we have other philanthropist comments tell their stories about how they developed their own form of forgiving and struggles and challenges. They asked themselves about how much to give and what’s the direction of my giving and howto i involve my family and how do i ensure that when i’m i’m not going to get dahna fatigue and so forth and so on? And it’s really? I think peer-to-peer learning in any field of endeavors is hugely important. That’s why there’s a lot of, you know, organizations like young presidents organization for ceos and so forth and so on, but even for non-profit professionals, i mean there’s a great a couple of organisations, they’re just i don’t if you heard of catch a fire. Oh, sure, back when stacey was talking about going to mention catch afire volunteermatch right, so in order to get, you know, if you need an accounting accounting or you need your having board challenges or you’re having, you know, they will find professionals who could help come in and advise non-profits on those issues and challenging than one new one i just heard about was inspiring capital that i mean, really just organize this year to help non-profits think about intellectual capital and capabilities they developed that might be a source of revenue stream because they developed this expertise, you know, i give you one. Example, a year up national, you know, organization that helped inner city youth find a pathway to self sustaining, you know, income and a great career and, you know, they become very well known, but they’ve really developed over the past fifteen years a great capability to only train young adults in inner cities, but also to stop thing properly and be on dso, you know, they have a model that’s that can compete with robert half, so they’re, you know, thinking about a revenue stream off of that that can help fund the organization, and i think more and more non-profits we’re gonna start doing the same thing, stacy, we have just a minute or so left one leave ah, parting thought something we haven’t we haven’t talked about that you plan to share one of the things that is clear and giving trends overall is that the affluent are the ones that are powering givings growth in america. We just saw e-giving yusa report come out and were it not for the wealthy, i don’t think we would have seen the good numbers that we saw so making sure that every organization of every size reaches out to these individuals is really important rather than focusing on things like special events and other kinds of things, i think almost every organization has the capacity to get what is for them a major gift, and there really should be thinking about that and important for them for then everybody doesn’t need to be going after seven, seven, eight, nine figure give exactly a ten thousand dollar gift might be a big gift for you. Go for it. Excellent. We’re gonna leave right there. Well, but i love that alright. Stacy palmer, editor of the chronicle of philanthropy, and glenn mcdonald, president of wealth and giving forum thank you both very much. Thank you for happiness. Thank you. Turning my pleasure it’s tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen thank you so much for being with us. Thanks to everybody at fund-raising day two thousand fourteen next week happy thanksgiving. I hope you enjoy your time very much with loved ones and friends take the time. Enjoy take a nap over the long weekend. I’m a big fan of naps indulge no show next week if you missed any part of today’s show, find it on. Tony martignetti non-profit radio no finding on tony martignetti dot com non-profit radio just rolls off my tongue, it’s it’s in my sleeping. Then i’m saying it. You’ll find info at tony martignetti dot com generosity siri’s, good things happening when small charities work together. Generosity, siri’s, dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. This week’s line producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. 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When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Hani door is the founder of idealist. I took two or three years for foundation staff sort of dane toe. Add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of offline as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. 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