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Nonprofit Radio for April 20, 2018: Strategic Alignment

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My Guest:

Dennis Miller: Strategic Alignment

Dennis Miller wrote “The Power of Strategic Alignment,” his third book, because he’d seen too many nonprofits expend time, energy and money without achieving the success they hoped for. He wanted to turn that around. (Originally aired April 11, 2014)

 

 

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s for twenty pot smokers unite! Oh, i’m glad you’re with me i’d be thrown into kenna phobia if you try to smoke me out with the idea that you missed today’s show strategic alignment. Dennis miller wrote the power of strategic alignment, which was his third book because he saw too many non-profits expending time, energy and money without achieving the success they hoped he wanted to turn that around. This originally aired april eleventh twenty fourteen i’m tony steak, too thank you, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com bye tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us here is a huffing and puffing dennis miller. I’m very pleased now to welcome dennis miller. Dennis c miller is a consultant and executive director of fairleigh dickinson university’s center for excellence. He spent over twenty five years as a health care executive and achieve the status of fellow in the american college of health executives face-to-face in italy, in italian fundchat is not very not very complimentary, so we’ll skip the italian it’s f a c h e he’s, a regular columnist for the non-profit times he’s at d c, miller associates, dot com. And on twitter he’s at np board therapy he’s breathing heavily because he rushed to get here, which i appreciate very much. Dennis miller, welcome back. Thank you, tony. Nice to be here. The pleasure. And were in the studio this time last time. We were at the westchester afb. That’s, right? Several years ago is probably three. Well, yeah, three years ago or so, roughly less traffic on dh. Yeah. Understand? Yes. That was much easier to just walk from your booth over where i was doing the interviews. All right. But since then, you’ve written another book. Yes. Your third? Yes. On strategic alignment. Yes. What is the problem? Why was her book? So why did you do it? I haven’t worked with so many non-profit clients. I realize that in spite of their commitment to the mission ah, and their overall commitment to the sector that many just struggled to. Engage the board and struggle to succeed and so haven’t done numerous board assessments and organizational assessments. I realized too, that in terms of difficulty of having everybody line that the traditional strategic planning process needed to be shook it up and have a new way forward and that’s my concept of strategic alignment, okay? And what is it that we’re, uh, we’re hoping to align? Well, basically, it says it sounds simple, but it’s it’s very challenging any organization or any individual has tohave a wheel vision for the future. Oftentimes we think of vision is just a vision statement, it hangs on the wall or in some book, and we don’t pay attention to it. It’s absolutely crucial that we have a vision for you want to go to and then have all the stakeholders internally and externally align with that and that’s usually not happening, okay? And and those stakeholders who are we talking about? Well, certainly internally we’re talking about the leadership team on the board of directors, the trustees will care about the volunteers we’re talking about the staff and externally was certainly talking about the donors and any other government or appointed officials or keep people in the community that want to be involved in the organization it’s a very important have everybody aligned and it’s also not just alignment, but also very important to understand today when there’s a whole new set of conferences in nontraditional skillsets that leaders and board members have tohave okay, that’s interesting on, and i think we’ll have time to talk about some of those, uh, competencies and expertise that are required. I’m so it really is possible you’ve seen this, it can happen that all these internal and external stakeholders constituents can can actually focus in and pursue the same direction it does happen. I mean, i’ve been to experience it with all of my clients wrestling to pass certainly a couple years that i’ve been at this for quite a long time ah, whole new concept of actually spending a lot of time up front really doing an assessment of the organization and knowing not just its strengths, but obviously it’s areas for best practice improvement, not a swat analysis, which kind of leaves you with an empty feeling of what two d’oh swat swat is the strength sprint leading opportunity, threat, suasion, threats it was the old traditional way of people doing a strategic plan assessment. But at the end today it was like so now what do i do with this? From my point of view, it’s about now is getting to know what you are but helping them happen. The leader’s helping aboard, helping everybody understand that today’s compasses they’re very different as example. Okay, you know, usually in the past and executive rector was high because of either they’re good program skills, the ability, the right grant, good community relationships and their passion for the mission or dedication to it. Today the compasses for a good leader and the non-profit are very different today. Ceo stands for chief entrepreneurial officer. You have to be the one who helps make things happen. You have to be building relationships. You have to have a visionary view. You have to be able to build relationships and build your brand. You have to be able to communicate your success and talk about your achievements. You have to find opportunities to collaborate with it’s a very different opportunity to be passively waiting for things to happen and hoping they dio for actually making them happen. That’s a different today’s leadership, you know, interesting. Uh, chief, entrepreneurial officer? Yes, i believe that. So even large organizations, i’m used to work out good size hospitals. Yes, they still a tally stick the leadership, but maybe even trickling down. I need to be entrepreneurial. I think at every level, i think that again, i mean, i’ve been in the nonprofit sector or having worked for non-profits sector even as a corporate executive freedom from thirty years here, now that we have to think of ourselves with a different mentality that we have to think of ourselves, not as non-profit, which i think is a negative term was realizing that non-profit is our tax that is not our business plan. And in order to succeed and have a mission, i think you have the balance up mission in margin. But it is very important today to be focused look differently in terms of how you getting your revenues to often we’re so dependent on government and state public funding. It’s not there, and we’re going to a panic is our opportunity to build programs that are impactful tohave people want invested it and that’s kind of what my book describes i’ve had another ceo say the exact same thing about non-profit being our tax status, not our business mentality, not our mindset, right? It tends to create sort of ah hand to mouth. Yeah, and i think it was because i hate to use the word, but there’s almost a sense of, um, self fulfilling prophecy that we go around talking about. Maura non-profit well, then you’re going to end up not making a profit. If you have no profit, you can’t steer it back in the organization moving forward here. I’m fully aware of the challenges that is, but i think you have to think very differently today and leadership must be a really different kind of skill set than they were in the past that looks like you could use a drink of water after this walk, so go ahead, allah, i’ll frame this question long enough to give you a chance to take a sip, okay? We’re sharing the full experience with listeners who wanted it it’s actually a little traffic on route eighty today, coming from jersey, i’m normally not a problem and three lanes going down the one was not it was not that was not. Good, but you got here i got here. I got you feeling all right now i feel great right over here. Okay, i’m glad to be here, but you feel okay. I feel great, actually. But i’m glad to be here. I feel good. All right, good to see you and say i’m thank you. Thank you. All right. We’ve got some obstacles to overcome now, though, if if we’re going to be aligning people to a common mission and vision vision let’s say vision there’s going to be a lot of compromise people people don’t especially on the external means the external constituents that you mentioned sometimes boards, volunteers sometimes they’re not so willing to be ah, compromising well, i think it’s really one of the great things about our country is obviously the tremendous matter of volunteerism, people committing to volunteer, being on boards here, and certainly the great philanthropic effort of people in this country. But i think in terms of so many of us and i say myself included the former, you know, ceo of major companies sometimes do not do a good job of really identifying for bored what we want him to dio we don’t discuss the issue about financial resource commitment at the time of bored recruitment and the role of the board of dramatically changing and oftentimes boards like i didn’t know that i wasn’t sure that was going on what’s my role here and i use the expression of sometimes, you know, people leave their sense of humor and intelligence at the door. When you go into a board meeting in yesterday, they’re all the board was certainly beyond found it was the fiduciary role which was very important overseeing fiscal policy, finances, budget investments, budget personnel, then boards evolved and became one strategic and business like everybody had to have a business plan strategic plan, but the day really mature board has to be a leader in partner with your ceo, it has to have a sense of of ownership and has have a sense of being active kapin actively response for making things happen, not just watching them happen, and so that today the wall with a boredom in alignment is very different. Yeah, how does that board fit into this entrepreneurial latto well, it’s crucial because the board has to think well out tomorrow as well as an example, i have an organization that right now for years struggled to have a new executive director. Who’s done a great job, but the board was kind of passive. The board didn’t expect toe, you know, beyond making a contribution of helping out today’s new board they have is energetic, its leadership as new ideas is making relationships with other people here is bringing people table it’s, telling their story, it’s getting people excited about what they do. The board’s role is very different today. It’s not just passive. Instead, because you liked emission or care about the mission, you have to want a wool api sleeves and kind of bring it to the table. And you mentioned this. This organization shin that excuse me where the board turned over that’s ah that’s. Ah, lengthy process though. It’s. Not easy. I mean, you know, many of us, you know, we get we identify with our organizations and we could become attached to them and it’s. Very difficult. But as i say to people all the time, you know, good organizations evaluate their chief executive, great organizations. They violate their selves and their own border performance. And that’s kind of what? I do a lot of but it’s really important to help them along don’t listen, they’re out, they’re all good people, but we often times it’s just sort of stuck in the rut and you don’t really have to be more helpful to the organization. We’re going to go out for a short break and when we come back, of course, dennis miller is goingto dennis miller and i were going to keep talking about strategic alignment, so hang in there, it’s time for a break pursuant. Do you know what they do? Besides all the valuable free resource is i talk about their a full service fund-raising team they will help you make sense of your data, your existing data, they do creative, they can help you with donor acquisition that could make your digital fund-raising bring in more money, which is talking about email strategy and they do execution, they don’tjust not just lay something out, and then you gotta execute it on your own. It doesn’t work like that, they do it landing pages ceo ecm google adwords, facebook, google twitter ads this they don’t only exist online, though they will also help you thrive off line. Um, they do creative. If you need help with fund-raising, they are a a full service fund-raising team that’s them it’s all in tony dot m a slash pursuant to radio now back to dennis miller and strategic alignment. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, dahna i. Before we go any further, i wantto correct dennis’s earl. He has a new one that that i was not aware of. Dennis, c miller, dot com it’s launching tomorrow and associates are out the door. Absolutely so don’t go to dennis, don’t don’t even think this email social still taking a dynasty, miller, back-up but the tagline, revitalizing non-profit board. Okay, we’ll go directly, go, dennis, similar dot com. Okay, thank you, tony, my pleasure. Okay, our board. You know, we spent a lot of time on this show talking about boards. The board is going to be sort of, you know, they’re they are part of the leadership, and we need leadership to implement this very important vision statement because we’re all going to be strategically aligned to the common vision. We need to have leadership to create this vision. Absolutely. I mean, it’s, i think, you know, in the old days, it was the board that set the vision and they wanted someone to implement it, which was the old title executive record than it has to be done in partnership people to have to own it. So certainly the ceo has to be integral part of setting that vision with the board here. But the difference is today the board has to have a responsibility for making sure that vision it achieved and what would be the measure progress towards what are we going to do? What do i have to do? Is aboard, mate? What can i do? It turns of my own role here. One of them frequent things mentioned to me during a board assessment is many times boardmember. Don’t feel is engaged with the organizations they like on dh that’s a common thing on what’s really falls on onto the shoulders of is the board chair or bored present? Whatever the terms and the ceo have to find a way toe seek thie individual talent that each person has and find the way to engage them in this process. Some people are sort of involved with social medium walking find a way to tap into them other people more involved in community relations, the community find the way to engage you board the board has to be engaged on an emotional level. I too, want to achieve that vision. That’s the excitement, that’s the thing that makes things happen is betting yourself and continuing improve yourself. So you’re there to provide the mission for your organization. You make the point in the book that leadership is how you make people feel. Well, i i do say this year i mean, ah it’s a long time ago working different people here. I say all the time that you know people as a leader, people will often forget what you said. I’ll forget what you did but to always remember how you made him feel. And i think one of the mistakes that many people make it the top of leaders at the top is they think they could do it by themselves. They don’t realize they need a team to do it. So it’s, very crucial in my first book, a guy to achieve new heights of four pillars let’s accept non-profit leadership. I describe obviously the characteristics of a good leader which really four basic things. A phenomenal ability to build relationships inside the outside organization, but to be built trust respect amongst all the employees is they have to have my field. You care to make sure there’s a person in charge number chill. You have to be able today not only to be passionate emissions, you have to be able to communicate your achievements and your success. You have to tell your story and some case you have tto pound your chest a bit more than the normal, very different part of leadership. How would you like to see this? The assessment process and the and the strategic planning process? I should say be different. Yeah, well, what i recommend is this year and, i mean i certainly do a lot of them, but i mean, anybody who’s sort of who’s, talented and sort of organizational development, organization of psychology or things like that. First, what you want to take a look at the organization sends information as a physician would take a look at history and physical x rays of blood work before they did any thing you want to take a look at, you know, just get familiarize yourself. What are the financial statements or what do the annual report select what’s the market communication what the information is going on here, number two, you want to be able to schedule face-to-face confidential meetings with preferably all members of the board and key leadership team and ask open ended questions and they range from not just on how long you been on the board, but on a scale of one to ten how effective do you feel the board is today? Ah, if it celestine of certain, i’m asking why we’re getting to some of that board self assessment that you mentioned earlier, not just valuing the ceo, but valuing themselves. Yeah, and evaluating their perspective on the organization too. How do they feel? About the committee structure, are they involved in the committee? Is our committee structure is your vision well, it’s amazing when you ask questions, tony, a board members about tell me what your mission is, and they describe it pretty quickly and they’ll be asking what your vision is. They say they repeat the mission and oftentimes organizations because we’re all caught up in the alligators, all caught up in fighting the day. Did they battles? Battles? We often don’t have a vision and it’s the one thing that will propel you forward more than anything else toe having a vision for your organization that everybody believes in. And then every activity, every activity of the ceo, every activity, the board, every activity of the program, every activity banning stretch everything is geared towards achieving that vision and constantly moving forward. That’s a big step for boards. We have to be very conscious of measuring our success toward the vision. Yes, we have. We have vision. And then we have mission and then goals steps to achieve that mission. These all need to be measured. Duvette, this is part of the self assessment. Absolutely. I remember back in my early days or, you know, being a president of a large hospital and new jersey and the vision when i got there was to be the best comedian hospital jersey and was like, what does that mean? How would you know the the best camin hasta mary-jo xero and so often times peoples in the non-profits activision statements are you had to be the premier behavior health care system to be the premier human service. Argast but how do you measure that so poor? The idea is, how are you measuring your progress? Are you achieving? If you cannot demonstrate you making progress toward division, then you really haven’t done a good job. So it’s really crucial is part of the assessment asked those questions, and he has a question that i think everybody should be asking their borders. How does i ask this altum as a boardmember how do you measure organizational success? Well, how do you measure the board success? And it’s it’s, a stimulating conversation is a little bit provocative, but that is so crucial to get him think a little bit differently than the challenges they face every every day here and that’s just kind of what? We talk, what do people typically say? They don’t say they say, well, we measure the bottom line, you know? We’re still we’re still open was still wanting, you know, the door’s not closed, that kind of thing, but it’s kind of a sad commentary when you measure your success, just affect whether you’re still open in business and, yeah, that threshold it’s a very low bar doubled, and i think, honestly, it’s it’s, not a question that we often ask you and i think it’s one one of my books, maybe the second book to non-profit bought their books, i’ll get confused there’s so many about that just i can’t remember what i said in my first book of my third buy-in but well, i described this year i said, can you imagine this scenario at a board meeting? I want to call the meeting to order. Okay, tony motion approved a minute, sam. Seconds it ok, let’s, go on their first item agenda. Let’s talk about why we exist. What’s our real purpose. Why do we exist? What’s. And it sounds like come on, we got more thought. That’s. A really good question asked. I also did it. I did it. Work shot once really was funny. In hindsight, it was not funny. Ah, the organization wanted to raise a million dollars. Now i didn’t want fund-raising in my early days than i do now. But i have a lot of relation with people here. And i told you because anything we’re not ready to raise any significant money. But they asked me if i would do we treat on fund-raising. And when i got to retreat, my first questions it wass, could you tell me what your top two achievements were last year? And it was just dead silence in the room. It was dead. Silence. Follow-up waded our budget. There was no one cares. Following a woman. The back room says we do this program called pals p a l s a stands for peace. An alternative learning system. So what does that says? We teach young children who have been subjected to either sexual assault with domestic violence. Howto build trust relations with people again. That’s. Phenomenal. How do you communicate that? You stay cold. Us? They said we don’t do a good job. But that’s. Why having trouble raising money? Only one person in the retreat there’s, a border treat only one person identified pals as a as a success from the previous year, so they’re not even communicating it within themselves. Exactly. And i don’t think where it’s not part of the the dna so many non-profits not to be focused on achievement it’s focusing on the mission by itself. Here, don’t get me wrong. I’m a merry mission focus guy thinks it’s crucially important it’s why i have dedicated my life to helping non-profit organization very passionate about it, but you have to be nowadays achievement driven results driven. Why is that important? Well, because i want it because it’s a good process to have but two funders investors today, donors alone, institutional and person, but they want to make a difference, and i mean just similar to someone wanting to invest in the stock down on wall street and see the return philanthropic people of very range from small donors so large they want to know what you’re doing with it. They want to know, are you making a difference? And you have to some way be able to communicate them to different you’re making plus when you talk about your achievements when you talk about your success, it changes the mindset, i believe, for board members to think to go away from fund-raising i described a tin cup theory where you feel like you begging for your needs, and he began to have a conversation about talking about your achievements and your success. Now the concept becomes, are we do we think we need to have investors in our success? The answer is yes, so it changed the mindset from talking about what we need is an organization just to keep going to what we are achieving and wanted to continue those successes, no steps, it’s very different. This all means that we’ve got to ask very hard questions because we’re going to have to identify metrics, yes, they’re goingto that we’re goingto review and and report on at at the board to our stakeholders. As you’re saying, they demand it, you know? And we might not always like what those numbers have to say first asking the hard questions and then getting the answers that may not always reflect what we what we’d like them to month after month, quarter after quarter, and not only that, i remember doing a sort of a focus group, part with employees group that i was doing strategic plan within, i asked, was a behavior health care organization, which is a lot of work, and i asked this group, you know, how many counseling sessions do you do in a year and the one of the top executives and well, they don’t know that because we don’t give that information? Well, the whole point of the strategic alignment is that every employee, every level has to be a line with your organization goals, their individual goals have to be in line with your goals, and and people need information. So not to have this information is sort of making a disconnect between your organization goldenburg individuals is very important that everybody get involved. I would hope that’s a number that everybody can be proud of, and if it’s not, then we all need to work together to make it a number were perhaps aly and when people focus and on, you know, progress and success and measurement, it’s not about holding people the punish people, but and is more than just accountability, it’s having something to strive for in life we always feel better when we’re striving for something and it’s important as an organization to think differently, that about poor me, you know, we don’t have any money from the government. What are we going to do but today’s, you kind of make it happen and there’s a responsibility that it can’t happen, organizations at every level and every type can succeed with a news conference. E of leadership would a new skill set of the board would a with a passion to achieve your vision with measurable records of success or a point of success, and everybody being held accountable and and measuring you performs accordingly. It’s fun! A different challenge. We’re going to fund all this. So it’s, sort of a perfect leading to what you were just driving. We need to have ah plan for for bringing in the money to create all this. Well, you know, but i think you have to start with something different. I mean, waffen times. We start with a fund-raising playing which involves something like this year and it’s. A little it’s. A little funny, but i go like this are a typical development committee is like, okay, let’s call the meeting to. Order. All right, ho. We’re going onto this year at a gala. Ah, we honored him last year. Two years ago where you want her so we can honor who’s got a chair or golf committee? Who kind of a wine tasting is, you know, how much is going to cost? How much money can we bring in? And then we talk about well, anybody go over the major prospects that we were signed at last week’s meeting or less much meaning to talk about anybody approaching any large givers and the silence in the room. And then the development chair says, well, you know, let’s ah, let’s put that let’s table that till more people come to the meeting next week. Let’s not talk about the table settings for the gala. We have a different mindset that people just not engaged. They’re terrified of fund-raising they’re afraid of rejection. We have to think differently. You got to start with a case was support. Why? Why? With someone investing you? Why should be worthy of a gift? You gotta start with that process and then then the true. What is the difference? Your gift will make what’s the difference. And then number three, obviously the various ways to people can give, but you have to have a more comprehensive fund-raising plan today. Yes, special events important, i call them friendraising besides just fundraisers, oftentimes the fundraiser is an end to itself. It needs to be beginning. We need the cult of any people besides your annual pill, but people are the ones that give the overwhelming eighty percent of of money in this country and people there’s money out there. People will invest in you if you tell him about who you are. If you show them your excitement, if you show them your energy was showing what you’re doing, there will be people in your community at every level. Did they want to support you? But if you come across with a tin cup theory begging for money because if you don’t go on a business, it’s a very unappealing process and you’re going to be stuck in the mud. But your first question that you’re suggesting asking of donors you know why? Why should you give you asking it internally so that you can answer it extremely washing to give to the organization that goes back to these? Hard questions that we’re now asking and we have presumably we have metrics that say here’s, the reason to give because because we’re impacting, we’re changing, we’re impacting lives were not just not just having therapy sessions, but here’s here we prevented six suicides last year, actual and hundreds of cases of depression were were treated, and people got jobs that were largely unemployable because of their depression and right, i mean, this is the why, how many people that have been homeless, but not because we’ve developed a collaboration with behavioral unit are now ending the cycle of homeless was ending the cycle of depression, ending the cycle of mental health issues that’s so they can sustain employment or sustained family integrity. These are things we need told that’s what people want to hear. So again, it’s a very different mindset and part again of my process, strategic alignment is putting is assessing where you’re at looking at the piece of you put together and giving a plan of action to it and it’s all again really, tony about execution, okay? We’re gonna get the execution. I mean, we’ve got all this in line, and we’ve talked a little. About our our funding plan. Anything well, is anything more you want to say about the funding part of it before we get teo execution, i just think it’s really important to ah, um, make sure that everybody’s on board with that and what i, um here’s what i here’s what i want from my boards, okay? I would very few exceptions and i’m not talking about, you know, billion dollar boards metre palm zem award. Ok, very high level princessa university and stuff like that. What you really kind of want is i don’t want my boardmember is really asking for money, honestly, because they’re going to ask for to load you don’t know how to do it. I want my board to help me identify two or three prospects every six months. People today can help me have an introduction to breakfast mean, they can come on a tour of our facility. I want boardmember is help me build relationships. I will do the asking or will work as a team and building a strategy for that, but i really want my board to take on a different role on that and and that’s, just a border had how to be asking for money? It’s much deeper than that. We need to take a break for wagner cpas. They’ve got the wagon. Are i exhort you to check this out? Prepare your nine. Ninety for success. If you’re one of the fortunate organizations that has enchanted year after year to complete the full nine ninety not that sap lis easy or the end postcard. Then listen to the wagon. Are it includes common mistakes and most damaging mistakes. I wish i had heard this inviting the high school. I made so many mistakes. Yeah. Oh, i have a terrible crush on her. So my strategy is going to be ignore her that way. She’ll never come around and she’ll never know. You want to avoid those damaging mistakes. Also, how to use your nine. Ninety is a marketing tool. That was you. Eat. Who was on the show? August fifth, august seventh twenty fifteen. All this is that wagner cpas. Dot com go there. Quick resource is than wagon ours. Now time for tony steak too. Thank you for indulging several p recorded and archive shows in a row. I do. Thank you, it’s. Not the way that i prefer to deliver. Non-profit. Radio to you to produce it that way, but there are times when i don’t have any choice, i want you to know that i am conscious of it. I don’t just do it, um, you know, because i have not, you know, because i don’t feel like producing a live show, it’s, not like that at all. The archives in the pre recordings. I know you know, where they’re very good, but live has that special energy, and i know it. I feel it. I prefer live it’s, always my first choice. I’m always trying to do that, but i do live in two different places now, and we had non-profit technology conference and i was away other weeks, so i couldn’t do it. But next week, next week will be live and again, i thank you for this stretch that has not been live. Thank you very much for your indulgence. I thank you so much that i want to go to the love the live listener love, thank you, not just thanks love love goes out to the live listeners, the perennial live listeners, or if you’re a first time live listener or for an occasional drop in live listener like ohio, michigan don’t know well zoho together rust belt now that’s, that’s pretty much that i can think of. We get occasional pennsylvania, but it’s it’s more like philadelphia. So wherever we went with your first time or perennial, the live love goes out to you and the podcast pleasantries on the time shift on the different devices where ever you are. Where you painting a house, washing dishes, driving subway bus? Are you binge listening? Ah today’s for twenty you maybe binge listening to the four twenty show, perhaps under the influence? I don’t know whatever, whatever you’re doing, whatever your methodology is pleasantries to you, our podcast audience and the affiliate affections, so grateful that our show is on your am or fm station and so grateful that you are listening as part of it affections to ur am and fm listeners now we return to strategic alignment you were you were nodding and and well, it’ll but what time? Well, we did take time and not too long ago i go to a ruber annually on and that was out in california southern california masson got married. So it’s eighty five degrees out there. Well, as you all know, we went through a horrible winter this year. Thank god it’s springtime thank god it’s april, i don’t see any snow on the ground. I hope there’s no more coming in, but it was very tough. Went for people. But i agree with you also that it is crucial for every one of us to take some time for ourselves and both either with family and friends or just heimans wafer, you need to try either we recharge well, everybody’s working so hard it’s, so difficult for so many people. So many organizations has just struggle who are really good people. So you need some time away to kind of refreshing recharge your batteries school. Thank you for that endorsement. It’s. Good time. That retreat sometimes good time for a retreat. Well, that’s work though. Ah, a board retreat, but could be it could be energizing should be energizing. Ok. Should be energizing should be like. Okay, well, that’s, the way we should be having fun way, right it’s still work, but we can have fun but it should be fun. I mean, if it’s not fun, it should be fun. That means hard work. But it should be fun. Absolutely. I’m making a difference in the life of someone else. It should be fun. You’re absolutely right. It’s. Healthy there’s. No distinction between work and fund. I know i enjoy the work that i do. Write to me busy but it’s it’s fun doing it and i feel like work. I i like, you know, my consulting practice. I love being part of the program at the university for senator jackson’s onto leadership development and our certificate programs and writing my books and articles. But i love just working with people in long as it is, i love it. And that the university is fairly dickinson family taking the university it’s, a centre for excellence. Leadership governs atlanta p and the earl is fdu died four slash c f a cft cf fact under forex next month on may fourteenth we have our second annual conference. Of women and non-profit leadership at the marriott clan pointed tina class it was sold out. So we’re looking for a great break program issue let’s turn to our execution plan that we all need thing is all we got do a lot of planning we got execute. Yeah, well, you know, it’s it’s what i tell you, we all owe everybody who’s been listening. Everybody knows it’s exciting to go to a strategic plan its most times. Then what happens is sort of the so, like a sugar high and it’s a lot of exciting beginning and then a time to implement it. And then all of a sudden, you know, kind of wears often data they challenges. So what if some of recent difficulty movement, first of all we get into way don’t always have people trained to take strategies and operational realities. That’s one thing number two sort of asylum mentality that you know, it’s, not my job. It’s someone else’s job and protecting your own, you know, back end and turf is a problem here and so often times, and i just found it to be completely true in my experience where clients is that where? Most people think the reason for failure is because of external environment conditions. I actually think it’s the internal issues that prevent people from success while blaming the outside of the external that you have no control over easy it’s very convenient. Yeah, i know. So i was i had lunch today with a great great friend of mine. I’ve done a lot of work with and he’s a fantastic guy. He’s got a good organization, but he is not always comfortable, obviously addressing performance issues. And so they get scared under the rug and then everybody also against the moral life. So execution is crucial. I mean, what we find too often, tony is strategic plans sitting on a shelf collecting dust. That’s very common and again. So the board is happy. The beginning thie idea of ah always dresses issue. But then this measuring results and one of things that i recommend is actually having an assessment of usual plan one year after implantation to see how far you’ve come, what you’ve achieved and what maybe need to be achieving what the obstacles here. So the board’s role and ceos rolls execution and it’s rarely because there’s no. Plan of action there. No detail responsibilities. There’s no there’s, no time tables, there’s, no accountability. And so, wait, just calm. You know, we have team meetings and then we go away because we don’t get along with our team and really it’s a ceo’s job to make sure that he or she is building a team is giving people feedback and holding people accountable. I mean, you know and timetables. So we’re signing and time assigning responsibility on time from right. And if there’s an obstacle, go as a team address it. You know, i worked for the organization. What i won’t say whose name you know, not too long ago. And, you know, they point to things. It so it’s. Not my problem. Well, actually, it’s a collective problem. So sometimes issues can be solved by just one person. It needs a team approach. We should be working as a team approach here. I just think that it’s crucial in terms of education, the whole people was the sailors before and often times, you know, in the corporate world which i was just, you know, for seven years a cz an executive running a health care practice in the northeast for non-profit clients ah, people will give a lot of responsibility, but they’re held accountable and unfortunately, a stereotype in the nonprofit world there’s people will forgive a lot responsibility and very little accountability. We sort of have, you know, we don’t want anybody go o r where, you know, we don’t wantto upset the cart, and yet what happens is that when performances and driven and impacts everybody else here, so execution is altum responsible responsibility of the ceo and and that’s when i talked about, you know, the entrepreneur or roll today the leadership conference is a very different execution is crucial. Sitting on a shelf is is an investment. You put all that investment situation, it’s important to see what happened, maybe did something change? Why isn’t example, one of the clients that i’m just finishing work? What wanted to build a from a behavior health care program that was more of an outpatient baseball grant funding? They wanted to build a more of a fee for service program to address the increasing number of people insured to the affordable care act pompel yet it’s in seem to be happening why? Well, they will want organized it didn’t have the right management team in place. I was able to come on and make some suggestions to promote this person to move person along here. So it’s really crucial final why hasn’t something that you said is a goal? Why isn’t it been achieved? It’s it’s really important? Take a look at that. You made too much investment. It’s too important teo cannot keep going. Let’s, talk a little about this breaking down the silos. Yeah, because now we’ve now we’re invoking courage, which i mentioned before that courage from above we’ve got ego. We’ve got personality got turf. Things are not so easy to get. Everybody get broken down and get everybody collaborating. It’s not easy. I mean, we’re human beings. We have attendance to protect ourselves and protect little turf era in our own little eagles. But again, it comes down to leadership accountability, one of things that i did back in my in my hospital days. Remember when i became president of ah, the hospital. You know, the boys recruited me and told me this hospital’s doing so well for actually which turns out it wasn’t but they told me it was doing. Well on patient satisfaction when i got there front and actually that were in the bottom quarter on the country, a little alarming, right? And it was actually embarrassing, but one of things that i did was providing educational training program and the focus of that to remind everybody that everybody who comes that everybody who works here is actually on stage. You know, if you go to report away show and i’m not a big board way guy, but my wife likes to go if you go to see cats, whatever they’re putting out for ten thousand times, but looks like the only time they were put on for you here, i tell people, you know, people come into our organization whether it’s, the hospital organization may be the first time they’ve seen in a hospital could be the best day of the year. Two delivery of a newborn baby. It could be the worst day that grandma has passed away in the ice. You know, it could be a tragedy happen you but day everybody comes in is somebody’s mother, father, brother, sister, we have accountability, tow how we’re going to be treating those people, how we’re going. To be saying hello, how we’re going to be voting, people lost directions, it confound the leadership again. Leadership has to be able to know their person, their personnel, they have to know their leadership team if the leadership team is not working effectively, it transgressions all way down the entire organization. I did this organizational envision setting process for someone and weak appearing when i did employ focus groups was how you know all those people in administration, because why? Because the people in administration talk about each other in a negative way and so it’s important to address it, and i think you can develop team goals, collaboration, eso people don’t feel a strength but it’s absolutely crucial toe let people know what they’re doing well, but as a leader it’s crucial to be ableto communicate the people that need to be able to work specifically that other people and when they’re not address it and give me some improvement. Most people want to do it. Nobody misbehaves intentionally, but it’s really crucial in today’s non-profit setting to be strategic aligned to achieve division chief you goes, you must be internally light and that requires leadership to address. It as well as human resource fortunes because we’re talking so much about health care reminded that i was walking through a hospital once and the guy who was carrying a ladder, you know, clearly facilities maintenance guy, he said hello with a bright smile, you know, and it’s just it’s a struck me i mean, the guy’s got a ladder on his shoulder, he’s still he’s, still greeting me and saying hello. Well, actually, i’ve seen i’ve seen non-profit executives who may have different locations and their employees don’t even know they are, they don’t even visit him. Yeah, so comment right, multiple locations, everybody comes to them. Nobody comes the ceo for a meeting on door, the university president with the multiple college of something nobody comes to them telefund are they getting out? I had a i had a profound with grad school columbia school of public health and administration back a long, long time ago and my professor, i said to all of us one day, so listen, someday you guys going to work in hospitals, put your books away, put your contracts way but we walked down the emerge from remind yourself why you there? And it was a lesson i’ve always learned, and i think the same thing is true here as a leader to step away from your desk, ming with the people that are doing the programs have a conversation with them, go to duncan, don’t start bringing some coffee by some donuts, take a tour, he would they got to say, i mean, the first time they’re probably thinks something critical happen. That’s why there’s, something bad happened, but it’s um, it’s crucial to hear what people have to say, people, i need to be heard when you, when you listen to your employees, they feel cared for it’s all part of the alignment process it’s crucial? You can’t afford not to have everybody’s energy aligned and that’s just that doesn’t always happen the way it should because the leadership is so important. The board, in addition to assessing itself point you made earlier, does need to be doing ceo assessment also and moving out someone who is not providing this the entrepreneurial spirit, that spirit, that leadership that you’re you’re advising and no one’s looking that beat, you know, firing people if you have that sort of the end product. Of the but there’s so many accusations that they have not evaluate their ceo and it’s. So many ceos i’ve asked have never evaluate their own direct reports on dh so it’s crucial performing it may be a requirement. There is requirement accreditation a lot of things that have performance if i was everybody dreads. Um, but that’s the paperwork but it’s really crucial if you weren’t effective leader managed to be able to address on every day basis. The things that people do well, pat him on the back. I just had someone tell me the problem with our supervisor it’s all critical it’s not a pat on the back and so performance the violations should be a re energizer it should be able to say, dennis, this is what you’ve done well, as focused on the good things first tennis, these two things i’d like you to work on. I want to work on this. I want to work on that that’s important and is the impact that’s having it’s crucial to do that? And so you have to evaluate people you have to evaluate your ceo if you’re ceo can’t always do it one of things that is is necessary or investment have a performance coach have a life coach, i’m a performance, i do a lot of performance coaching for ceos and boardmember it helped me get on track, it helps and have an independent, neutral person that they can talk to about their issues they’re having in and support them. So you want to always find the upside you want to help people get better on lee when all else fails the end up coming down determined people, but sometimes it’s, you have to do it empowering to mean the board the board empowers the ceo and maybe it is through some, some coaching, but then the empowerment of course, has to trickle down the ceo. I need to be doing the same for their report. You and he can’t, you know there’s too many ceos or ceos that do everything themselves and don’t delegate and stuff and that’s not why you’re hiring people and so that’s not effective use of your time to be having, you know, twelve direct reports and going overcome reports that that’s not affect do-it-yourself you know it’s it’s, you have to start with yourself though it’s very difficult to empower someone else when you don’t feel empowered yourself here and in alison, i mean, in the hospital, so you have to allow people make mistakes now you don’t want to obviously, you know, you can’t give the wrong blood. I do things like that, but, you know, sometimes people have to make him sex and grow when they learned from and i think you’ve got to encourage innovation. You’ve gotto coverage your employees to take a chance. You got encourage employees, take a risk. Let him know that you support him. You know, take a take a crack at a new program, take a crack at a new angle to it. Do something differently. Give him thie. Given the authority to take risk. It’s crucial. What about what about board recruiting? Yeah, the board is so critical, right? What’s, your advice around getting the right people on the board well is crucial. And he has a couple things here. First of all, i advise my clients to move away from sort of the board the board nominating process. Two aboard recruitment process and let me explain. You know, toni and tamar listens. What? I mean by that? First of all what i recommend to my clients is they should they should have and develop an ideal boardmember tricks. What does that mean? Well, if you were building you bored today, what would be the ideal attributes, talents or expertise that you’d want on your board? What are the geographical areas of diversity? May you want? If you’re involved in westerns? Accounted the one everybody from white plains will you want other ports of you’re involved in a city? The one everybody from manhattan? You want people from the bronx? How about, you know, other firms of diversity on it? What of the skillsets you need? What corporations or philanthropic entities may you want someone on? So you have to develop that set. Number two. You take the same thing for what you currently have and the difference between the two should be aboard with cubine strategies. It’s okay to nominate people to recruit people, you know, but more importantly, today it’s about recruiting people that you don’t know but finding a way to get to them. That is really the talent of board development that it’s not just nominee people, but if you have an example, if you say we really could use someone that is really expert expert in social media, marketing, internet communication you may not know somebody who talked to people who might they know who might you know, in another another corporation find someone they don’t know and then talk about the process zaptitude we often don’t do a good enough job talking about why we should have people on our board. I mean, if you’re bored, does not energized if the board is not excited about if you if you’re not an excitement or condition, we’re not striving to be a winner. You’re not gonna recruit, but you have to be able to ah, pound your chest labbate gonna be talking about that organization, it’s crucial people want to be part of a winner, and obviously, you know, the latter’s voice sometimes get the right person. You gotta go away for a couple moments when we come back. Of course, dennis and i’m going to keep talking. Got to take a break for tello’s, the credit card payment processing this long tale of passive revenue. You’ve got to check this out. Tony dahna slash tony. Tell us this could be revenue for you indefinitely. Ad infinitum that that infinity sign that never ends because you get companies to switch their payment processing to tell us, and then you get fifty percent of everything forever. Tony dahna may slash tony, tell us now, back to dennis miller. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. I got live listener love that i wish i could send, but were pre recorded today. Uh, you know, i think i can pretty well wing it. We know we’ve got listeners from, uh, in japan and south korea and maybe even iran. Certainly china on dh coming domestically. California, maybe agoura hills is listening. That would be mark, i think. Ah, but other listeners from california, new york, new york is always checking in texas. Ah, washington and oregon sometimes. Hopefully santa monica. My kids live in santa monica if you told them to it and then then they’re here. So live listener loved everyone who is listening live and, of course, pod class pleasantries. I just said plod classed pod class pod crit podcast that’s awful said it five times by bob broadcast pleasantries. I say it all the time, but i’m sending podcast pleasantries to everybody who’s listening in the time shift wherever you might be very grateful for all of you, the vast majority of our of our nine thousand listeners. If i could just add something what i said when we talked about a lot of things, you know, leadership board development board recruitment program stuff i think it’s not easy to be successful. It’s not easy to move the organisation for it to do so has takes courage, it takes a commitment, it takes the the the ability to not always make everybody comfortable. I think organizations tony, that need to change is sometimes you have to become uncomfortable in order to grow and far too often. You know, i’m not talking about going out in the elearning any people but that’s part of the entrepreneurial spirit is being uncomfortable, but there’s time in every organization to make changes. I mean, there’s some organizations i work for an organization once that was had a hundred or history. Ah, and it’s certainly gone through, you know, multiple little changes here, but i’ve done a lot of work with many walkers. There isn’t many make-a-wish chapters that you know into their fortieth year and the leadership that was necessary twenty years ago, ten years ago is not that kind of boardmember the people needed not there. It’s change is crucial on what i hope from people, whether they all listen to the show today or they read my books that they confined on, you know, dennis. Similar dot com to amazon or bonds amglobal online. I hope that they find the courage. I hope they’re they’re energized. I hope they’re feel inspired because i do believe that there is a way to succeed. I do believe there’s a way to a better life for these organizations. I have tried toe layout, road maps for them, whether it’s leadership board organization there is a way and there’s many people out there every day their remains and people, of course, this country we’ll get up every day to try to make a difference in life of other people. And i admire that. I’m glad before that. But it’s not easy, but it’s crucial. That changes record. What’s an ideal board meeting. Yeah. Going on, idealware. Finally, i got one guy. Got one good one in the whole hour. Very good. I want decent. I feel bored. Meaning is focusing more about tomorrow, then? Yes, we’ll lay out an agenda for an ideal annoy ideal boardmember people. May i said i would take a little bit of time. Just kind of give, i think. First of all, an ideal board meeting has ideal committee meetings. Okay. Ah, good bored. Has committee structure and you don’t want to do all the work there. I would say a good janet would be to have a relatively brief update on key issues about the financial picture updates on the strategic plan or updates on board governments. I think it’s more important for a good board meaning to be focused in on tomorrow’s activities have the board engaged and about tomorrow i tell people, it’s sort of a thermometer if your board meetings were spending more than fifty percent of the time talking about yesterday, you not having affected board? I mean boardmember should know more ninety minutes, one hundred two hours, maximum if your board meetings to go on more than that, they’re ineffective. So an idea, boyd means when people leave energized, feel refreshed and they don’t have what i call the rubber band theory. Boardmember is rubber band theory boardmember everybody has one. You know you said that your packets a week ahead of time. The person picks up the packet on the wife home from work stops at the board meeting parks the car and takes the rubber band off. The packet is leading the pack. Is that going? To the board meeting goes at a board meeting, doesn’t even have the ability that initially an emotion called home and i second the motion i’m happy put the rubber band back on a really good boardmember of border generals, when the board chair is engaging people for discussion, it’s when boardmember zehr bringing ideas for when boardmember zehr asking questions boardmember should be asking questions. Is that about micromanage? But the board should be challenging leadership interesting, you said relatively short amount of time on things like the budget fiduciary oversight, i mean now, okay, you know, you may have an annual budget planning me, ok, but this is not this is not that this is your average board meeting, but, you know, you don’t need to spend most of the time on the fiduciary, like you’re saying looking back where was money spends etcetera, more time looking forward visionary boy was now and that’s how it should be now, obviously, you know, unfortunately, and today’s climate, most board the spending time, you know, howto bring in money to keep ourselves open here, but i think honestly, they’re going about it the wrong way i think that, you know what i believe in very much in my heart and soul is about there not going about talking about their achievements or not talk about their success. They’re not talking about the difference in the lives of making if you begin the process about that, you will find the money you will worked for in finding the resource is here. So again, the ideal board meeting was when people we had a great boardmember at the university, they are our center for actually what really did on and it was just well, we’re focused, not truthfully, it’s not believing it was energised cause why cause we’re talking about have build our own committee structure about social media and marking communications in the whole university how to be looking forward to a development of online programs, there’s just people in the classroom how to be looking at our own board, which is now two years into existence, how to be, you know, we doing that’s it was it was an energized because we’re talking about tomorrow, people work excited about that, and i think that’s, what we need to focus in on tell me what you love about the work that you do? I loved the i loved the people i work with, you know? I’m a guy that came up from from nothing. No, sir. It was put in my mouth. You know, greta had a lot of issues, as most kids do with family. I went to college, graduated late at the age of twenty eight, graduated grad school twenty nine and became a ceo. Thirty seven. I just love the people i work. What? I love what they do. I loved what they’re trying to do for the people in the community. Ah, that is what i enjoy helping him. I know i’ve helped a lot of organizations. I get a lot of feedback. There’s a lot of wonderful client testimonies on the website. I just have a passion for what i do, tony. I like it. I like people. I like life and well, here to make it better for everybody else. That’s. What? I like dennis miller. You’ll find him at d c miller dot com on darcy miller. Dot com dennis c miller dot com sorry, dennis c miller dot com on twitter he’s at np board therapy and you also find him at the fairleigh dickinson university center for excellence, which we know is fdu forward slash c f, ft you dot ideal forward slash cf. Even my mother called me the n e for many years. I had to tell my mom, my mom is dead and you know, i appreciate that. Thank you very much, dennis. Next week i just don’t know, but i know it will be live if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Twenty dahna slash pursuant radio regular cps guarding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us our creative producer, in-kind meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scots time be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Yeah. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving! Cubine duitz are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor ing. Sometimes the potentiality tune in every tuesday line to ten eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c. Osili are you feeling unhappy with your body, shape or size? Ever feel out of control with food? I’m elizabeth from nourish the soul, and on this show, you will uncover the route to these imbalances and discover a permanent solution toe having a healthy relationship to food and your body. Join us every thursday morning at eleven a, m eastern time on talk radio dot. 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Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio dunaj n y c. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Buy-in

Nonprofit Radio for December 22, 2017: Recruiting Your Next CEO

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Dennis Miller: Recruiting Your Next CEO

“As a board member of a nonprofit organization, the most important responsibility you are likely to assume will be to hire your chief executive officer.” So starts the book, “A Guide To Recruiting Your Next CEO.” Whether you’re on a board or work with one, you need to know what’s what for this critical duty. Author Dennis Miller walks us through.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of cattle lep c if you tried to hypnotize me into the idea that you missed today’s show recruiting your next ceo as a board member of a nonprofit organization, the most important responsibility you are likely to assume will be the hyre your chief executive officer. So starts the book a guide to recruiting your next ceo, whether you’re on a board or work with one, you need to know what’s what for this critical board duty author dennis miller returns to walk us through on twenty state too next month’s non-profit radio we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant and by wagner. Sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers wittner, cpas, dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit appaloosa accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com tell us turning payment processing into your passive revenue stream tony dot m a slash tony tell us i’m glad that i can welcome dennis miller back then a c miller he’s, a strategic leadership coach and executive search consultant with more than thirty five years experience working with non-profit board leadership and chief executives across the country. He’s, managing director of the non-profit search group, an executive recruiting firm. His latest book, his fifth, is a guide to recruiting your next ceo. The executive search handbook for non-profit boards you’ll find dennis and his book at dennis c miller dot com he’s at dennis c miller and i’m very glad that his book brings him back to non-profit radio. Welcome back, dennis c miller happy to be back, tony way happy well happened years coming up. Yes, stopping here. That’s appropriate. I’m sorry. Thank you. And to you what does the sea foreign dennis, c miller, dot com and charles that’s my father’s name. So, so many dennis mellows and grammar school in high school, we put my seeing and i’m very proud to be a similar dennis charles. All right, you don’t mind if i don’t call you tennessee miller the whole hour, though, i just call me yet that it’s anything you’re like. Okay, now. Dennis overviewing i just have to be it has to be anymore denigrating the dentist, then it’s fine, now you’re by phone, you’re in, you’re in los angeles, is that right? Yeah, i’m actually in the los angeles area of isn’t that it’s a business appear this week and now we’re spending time. My wife and i went our two sons on their families and grandson out here and los angeles and heading up to santa monica santa monica pier, right after the show. So good. All right, well, we won’t hold you up. In fact, if you want take off now, we can just back the whole thing. Did you do you need to go public transportation is going to leave in five minutes or something or you’re okay. You’re okay for the hour. Okay. Now remember the last time you were here? You almost had a heart attack. You were running down the street. You were late. Your your, um your cheeks were rosy. Your heavy breathing. You needed a few minutes to take deep breaths. So now you’ve after to go to los angeles. And this way you can call him by phone. Well, okay, you don’t. Worry about running running to the studio. Okay, okay. You didn’t have a heart attack. You know what i was saying? I really have no salmon. Naralo were had a regular. You may have. No, you did. You had a high. You’re definitely out of my heart because your face was red. All right, why do we need this book? Why are you causing trouble with this tome? Well, think about it that there’s probably over a million more more than a million non-profits around the country and with the number of people that are just paid to retire over the next five plus years on any research, uh, just staggering sometimes close a seventy five percent. The ah the vast majority of people went into the non public sector and leadership positions where baby boomers from the sixties and seventies went to sort of the cultural change and wanted to commit themselves to having a big impact in the communion. So there’s, a lot of retirement going on, and the the biggest responsibility that a member of the board can have is selecting the next ceo. And then on top of that, when you think about the challenges of the environment in the non public sector, the leadership conferences have been dramatically changing, so it’s an important time for board members to understand what is needed to recruit the next ceo that’s why i wrote the book ok, seventy five percent turnover in the next ten years we’re going to have i’m probably less i mean, it’s, it’s quite a bit, if you think about people that grew up in the sixties and seventies, where you know it’s now two thousand, you know, seventeen and people in their sixties and thinking about stepping down another part of life and a lot of recruitment gonna be needed get latto leadership so it’s going to be required for this sector. Now, one of the opening questions is whether we should go this recruitment alone or hyre a such consultant now you’re you’re biased. You say that in the book you’re biased, but, you know, can you weigh the pros and cons for us? You know, so i’m biased certainly wasn’t if someone if someone wants to go about it a lot, i think the book will help them with that for sure you want to go in alone is this year. You have people on the board or staff with the expertise and recruiting. Do you have the time commitment that’s going to be needed for the board members, too? Not only identify the profile of the next candidate, but spending the time and now is reaching out and screening candidates. So there’s a lot of work involved that lay out those except in the search committee. Klaus is here. I think that what a lot of people doing today is realizing that, you know, whatever the figures that they’re going to be paying and most trees probably in area someplace between twenty to thirty five percent are cases. Twenty five that the advertiser over five years and sometimes really not that high. And yet. So you want to have an expertise this like anything else? If he needed a lawyer of financial account, you’d be hiring someone. It’s a challenging thing to go about on your own and the other aspect, tony, uh, for people who want to go about on their own is by just posting sort of adds a social media. Whatever you going toe on ly get the people that are looking for a job. And you know no either how good they are. However performing they are. Well, if they’re happy, a search from is going to recruit people that are not looking for that job. And that’s part of what you want. What i have that those percentages thatyou quoted that’s of the first year cash compensation. Is that yes. So someone makes ah a position whether the ceo our c f o r development amglobal to say the position i was one hundred thousand dollars. You know, the average three is going to be, you know, twenty five thousand dollars. But if this day five years it’s five thousand dollars a year which comes out to be about a hundred dollars a week or twenty hours of any and, you know the thing about it’s, probably the smartest investments that aboard would want to make. Okay, noah particularly because the right person and they stay for a period of time. It it’s okay. And i guess the main advantage of going on your own is your saving that fee. Well, you saving the fee, but you also, you know, better be prepared for the time that your board is gonna have that so that you poisoned cons here, but most most really good organizations will use the search from for certain keys positions. Okay, okay. Um, let’s say we just have about a minute before ah, first break, dennis so let’s, just identify that this ceo change is not something necessarily to be feared. I mean, just in a minute or so, this could be an opportunity, a great opportunity. Well, that’s, how you look at him and i were doing a search right now when we’ve got the finalists been seen by the search committee and in beginning this is that this is the first time this organization has used a search firm. And, you know, they admitted they made some mistakes in the past. But you’ve got to go from, you know, not a crisis, too. This is a phenomenal opportunity, too. I just take it, get a new leader. But i have an assessment of your organization and have some advice and give me and people get on the board. And we’ve been here for quite a while. Or fairly new it’s a exciting time to take a first look atyou organization. So it if the glass is half full it’s i look at it is very exciting times one organization, most clients feel the same way, all right? And we’re gonna talk about that. That assessment right after this right now. Time to take a break pursuant. Proven strategies for stewardship. 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You’ll find that webinar at tony dahna em, a slash pursuant capital p now, back to dennis miller and his book, recruiting, ah, guide to recruiting your next ceo and dennis similar so let’s, talk about that. That possibility for assessment. You, uh, you say that you might. I considered doing strategic planning. I guess if you have time before getting into the recruiting process for the next ceo. Yeah, well, the you know, the question always is, you know what comes first, right? Chicken or the egg? Tony, do your hyre our ceo or d’you hyre our chief development officer before you have a plan and and kind of it’s up it’s up to the client, the organization, but give you a couple examples, whites sort of better toe at least an idea of where you want to go and what you want to achieve. So let’s say, uh, you want it, you go out and hyre ceo hoping that day will build your plan and let some party of plan is to be more involved in philanthropy maur involved in cultivating. So seeing donors? What if that seo hee just hyre doesn’t have that experience will now you’re stuck. So what if your needs is to grow? You’re bored and you, seo yi sa doesn’t have that so one of the things that i recommend the clients is that’s not necessarily happen to have a full blown strategic plan, but certainly it’s a good idea to have a real sense of your strategic vision where you had it, where you want to head, what some of the big strategic goals you have, um, what things that you need to get done, and then obviously it’s much easier to in to identify that the characteristics on the qualities and experience of the ceo. So you bring someone on board who is the right cultural fit for your organization. So that’s, why it’s important to take a look at kind of way you want to go before you just went on board? You say that if you’re not going to do a full, full blown strategic plan planning process, you want to at least identify what your organizational goals are? Yeah, i mean, i think there are some people that, you know don’t do oppcoll bonem metoo plan, i think that you could do that, but i think more importantly, uh, what you want to do and a good search from what we do is we do sort of an assessment of where you’re at in your life, uh, cycle as an organization and as a board um, and then we interview members of your board and you’re seeing your team to get a sense of where you’re at that helped us for magically beginning the onboarding plus is what your next ceo? So we know kind of what their challenges are versus going about it blind, so i do think that you wanna have, and i point this out in the book, you want to have a sense of your strategic vision, we’re heading and pick up some of the key goals you’re having here. So when you’re interviewing kayman thatyou want, make sure they’re lined with those gold here and it makes a much smoother transition, some of the goals you you lay out besides mission envision our fund-raising and development, you know what you want do around that you’re bored ceo relationship, your programs and services and of course, you know, the book explains what goes into detail on each of those, but, um, yeah, i would have a couple of it, certainly. You know, your organizational capacity. What do you have in terms of leadership development? Do you have ah plan to develop the people you have there? What’s going on with you border. You’re building the right board. Are you branding the organization and communicating with the impact you’re having is important things today. So there’s a lot of ah, strategic goals, that one. Should be having with this process and you want to get a sort of buy-in from your board and have the new ceo committed help temple with this upleaf and okay, so this new ceo is gonna have need to have some skills on dh you make the point that you don’t want to be constrained by what the what the skills and talents of the existing ceo are. We want to be thinking beyond that, i mean, that’s that’s part of what this organizational either planning or identifying the goals is going to do is help you look forward, not current, you know, you just don’t want you don’t want to just replicate the current ceo’s talents, but you want to build on those for the future and you identify a whole bunch of, you know, potential skills that you might be looking for a visionary thinker, entrepreneurial spirit, relationship builder, etcetera. But you want to be going beyond the current? Yeah, i mean, it’s easy question when you have someone, you know, you know what kind of kind of see what you’re looking for? And then the person who has been in the job, you know, for the past ten, fifty years, your name is surely people we’d like someone like charlie. Well, maybe you do. Maybe you don’t. I think that the challenges that you previously eoe had maybe sell it, but they also be very different. And one of things that you just mentioned that i have in the book, in another books, in my work i do, tony is the idea of today’s competencies for ah, executive leadership in on public sector, dramatically different than they were five, ten years ago. There’s nothing wrong with what they were in the past. You know, aboard we’ll look for someone who was a a mission based person who could have built a good relation of in the community, probably someone who could manage people in programs and perhaps someone who could go out get a grant. Though their skills are still important today, they look for more than just skills. But competition traits such as they want a visionary thinker today, when the past the ceo or executive director would implement the board’s vision. Today, boards are looking for ceos to create their own vision cream organization. I want a visionary thinker, which takes coverage of grey. Division number two certainly. People want the idea of relationship will the building relationships outside inside the organization? Uh, someone who’s, a social entrepreneur who can help develop the resource is in partnership that you need not just managed him when you got so is the whole siri’s of conferences that identifying the book, including, you know, today being a collaborate it’s, not about how big of a budget you have in control it’s about collaboration. So, yes, there is a lot of new compass out there for ceos and executive represented, but i use the term song with ceo. Exactly. Director? Yeah. That’s a fair that’s. Fair fares. Similarities. Of course. I did have a guest years ago. Eugene fram. He was a professor that i think he was a university of rochester. Andi made a case that he wanted it to be the ceo. He he felt that chief executive officer conveys a greater gravitas than executive director and ceo. That chief executive makes it less likely. Now it doesn’t make no guarantee, but less likely that board members will get involved in the nitty gritty the day to day management, you know, be be micromanaging ceo versus an executive director? I don’t. Do you have any preference for one over there? I know the book uses anonymously, but you have a preference for one. Over the other day, i d’oh you know, tony it’s a point you’re raises a really good one. And i do highly in the book of my work. But i do think today the more contemporary title is chief executive officer. Um, the more contemporary title is bored shiver support president what you kind the past is, um, it may just be words, but i think they have a lot of connotations. They do hide them so i’d like to see board chair for sport president. I think the top late personal pipe paid for sex should be the president ceo. And i think that was provoc pulawski right there when you’re out there with donorsearch oh, it’s more than just an executive director overseen the apartment. You really keep executive making things happen? I do. I do before the words ceo cubine taking andi also executive director. I mean that’s that’s sort of a uniquely non-profit terms way wanted to think that running like businesses run. This thing like a business happens. To be a nonprofit corporation. But don’t tell this to run like a business on my other interviews with you came up the term, you know, non-profit attacks that business plan, i think it’s important that today’s title be ceo. I just really think that important title they have let’s get into some nitty gritty. I want to start with the the search committee who belongs on this thing. Well, clearly, i think the this you know that in terms of size of dominant members of the search committee should be members of the board. Now, can you have a non board member on such absolute who might that be? Well, if you have someone on your community that you know has experienced with search maybe a human resource background and then on your board, you want to get their advice and gets a good that’s a good conclusion. But generally speaking, if you have a board say of, you know, twelve to fifteen people, you may one of the search committee of maybe five, you know, maybe seven maximum, but i’ve seen larger or smaller. Um, so sizes of the committee is important. Number two, uh, be tremendous amount. Of time commitment so the members of the search committee have to realize it’s going to be in involvement here in some time, and then obviously, the key part of that will be who will be your chair, the search committee, in some cases it’s, a chair of the board, which is completely appropriate. Other times that could be the vice chair of the future chair. Ah, a lot of people ask me all the time. Would it be ok, though? Has the form of a former board chair? A starita search for money and i would say maybe i would say maybe on ly, because if the former board chair eyes focus about what happened yesterday and not involved as much in your strategic planning for the future and not somebody think of something because they won’t know like what they’re looking for, yeah, this’s committee’s got to be a forward approaching organization, afford protect committee so i think that’s kind of that that’s something to think that i would be looking for a nose of membership. What about an employee putting one one employee on the committee? I don’t think that’s a good idea, actually, i think it’s a bad idea to come out writer bae and say not well, give example. Okay, uh, i’ve had people wondering to put, you know, uh, you know, the current ceo on the search committee, and the answer is no, that law office of the current ceo, maybe and help in the search committee and the consultant or either inside or outside of the search committee helped develop aspects of the position provoc what will be the ideal qualifications and experience of the next ceo? But the board hires and fires a ceo um it’s also very uncomfortable before a current ceo to be on the search committee. I had a case where it wasn’t my search client, but it was my client that i helped with succession planning in they had internal candidate for the position. And when the search committee, as this person, what changes would you make she’s very awkward to be talking about the change you want to make with theo? Of course, right. So i have. But now, those times when you get there, some people have their v p of hr on the search committee if they need it lays on. But remember, people it’s not a good idea. Has staff it’s not good to have senior members of the committee on the search committee. It should be his boardmember dahna okay, predominately. And then you said maybe a volunteer. I love you. He needs expertise. I mean, if you know if you’re going to not have a search committee and may sometimes people can hyre a certain person not to do the search, but just give advice. But i think you want someone on the committee that has experienced in recruitment, identifying screening candidates and all that type of thing so you can build it up with the great. Okay. Okay. Um, this search committee has to assure that applicants confidentiality is going to be maintained, right? You want a crucial because on i make it clear to all my such you could be. You could be sued for. Ah, um, you could be potentially have a lot of liability for exposing that. There is a candidate. You tell your friend, by the way. You know, tony is it’s been interviewing for me and and before you know it, tony’s, you know, employer finds out, you know, feels like this oil is the prom. So you have to protect confidentially, it’s something that i have to establish the trust of my chance coming in, derek, they’re they’re adamant, and it’s just goes with the same goes with the business, i have to keep them confidential. There’s no way can let people know they’re seeking a job. Yeah, and this goes part me, tio, some of the time commitment, you know, if if there isn’t a, uh, a search consultant helping some of these conversations that the early stage is going to be after hours, people are going to be comfortable talking between, you know, nine and six p m yeah, after the day i’ve had, you know, i mean, our business is growing tremendously, what’s what’s going on, but, you know, when people say yeah, you know, maybe i’ll do it myself, but listen, if you can, if you know it’s up to you but the time involved for not just the identifying the characteristics and compasses of what the third, if you want up with the outreach to potential candidates is very time consuming if you’re going to delegate that members of the search committee a wall so, you know, professionals are working or even retired it’s a lot of work involved in screening people, scheduling interviews, scheduling meetings, being qualified to interview people, it’s a lot of time of all the narrow and candidates down and doing the reference, checking it’s quite a bit. So there’s a lot of work that’s involved in a process, not just putting it out there and then, you know, interview case it’s quite a bit of work to both sell candidates on why they want to take a look at this opportunity that’s really important, which is when i was just going to point out that you say some things that caught my eye was very, very interesting i hadn’t heard before that the search committee has an obligation. So our role teo, be selling the applicants on the organization not just to be not just to be a neutral a neutral committee, but be advocates for the auriga yeah, i mean, the candies are going to come in, they’re gonna come in prepared and they’re there to sell themselves. And what often happens on some cases where the search committee say, jeez, i thought, you know, how come they don’t think that we’re the best? Thing since sliced bread. Well, you want to convey a sense of optimism, a sense of enthusiasm. So you need candy it’s, goingto, besides what the search consultant is going to be telling them about the organization recruiting for as a search committee, i remember that you want to be portraying avery plaza of image. You want to be sort of extending your hand, you want to be greeting them. You want to make them feel welcome and warm, even if you’re not going to be selected them. And you noted, under process, you want to believe what a very positive feeling for donorsearch that’s, a major altum search committee acid. All right, interesting let’s, move, teo, resume screening. You’ve got you’ve got a ton of tips, you’ve you’ve reviewed thousands of, but you’ve got you’ve got a lot of tips to share, share a couple of resume screen tips. Now we’re at that stage that these things were coming in. Just repeat that, tony. I’m sorry about a lot of people coming in. Resume resumes. A lot of resumes coming out sametz share share a couple of resume screening tips. Oh, couple things one of you want to look for clary right off the bat. Eyes cloudy. Is it clear as to how their name and how to get ahold of you? You don’t always have to have your home accuracy stays, but certainly a phone number and email address. I think i look for one of things that we look for on our team is more of a chronological history. I want to know kind of where where’s your career, ben and a couple of tips. You look for someone’s been, you know, in a job every one or two years, and they leave quite quickly that that’s a signal textile, red flag, red flag and it were bad thing. But it should be there. The other thing that, uh, those there some people for it is the functional resume where you get a sense of what their skills are experiences. But you never get a sense of where they performed that. So two things on a resume. Both. For people that are considering throwing their hat in the ring on applying for position or respond to a search from is clary, is the resume clear of what i’ve accomplished? Is it clear what have achieved as a clear in terms of the timetables have? And i think that’s a couple of tips on the resume that really yeah, that that gap in employment that could be a woman who took time off to raise children absolutely was a caregiver was a caregiver for pareles that was concerned about a gap, and i said, just tell me you have a phd in parenthood. I mean, i’d be proud to be apparent way we don’t have parents, we don’t, you know, keep going, so i think it’s a totally appropriate but be honest with what you don’t want to do, it’s, not the cover things up here, and so then, you know, present yourself in a positive tone, but certainly be honest, if you took a couple of years out or timeout to raise children to be proud of it, and so you did, but these skills and bring back the table and begin the work force, i think it’s implying with that, let me ask you a quick one. Does this turn you off when you see people with email addresses that are hotmail or a o l does that suggest to you that somebody is out of touch with technology? No, i don’t, you know, not any detail. Why? Because most of them have to e mails. They have their business emails and their personal emails, and so they don’t want ah search from or an organization that there may be talking to going into there. Professional at work email like, yeah, no, i get that. I’m okay with the email accounts. It’s, when i see you know, dennis at, you know, big love of dot com i have eyes that see you. I’m gonna try that one. Yeah, okay, but wait. Yeah. And then when the e mails that are unprofessional, like baby cakes, you know, but yeah, i don’t want to be the case. That field. Yeah, that’s unprofessional, but all right, i think it’s okay does to protect your you know, your private from work, i think that’s. All right, but let me ask you, but but my point was if it’s an added you know, sort of an out of date domain like jool or hotmail or yeah, who you know, does that suggest to you that somebody’s not hip with the current with technology it’s possible? I know nothing about that. If that you know, if you have an out of the email address and then your resume looks out of date and it’s not clear that’s not gonna help you. So if that is your email address on minutes at a oh, well, i mean, i’m fine with that. I’m fine with that. All right. As long as not baby cakes today. Well, all right. Way to take a break. Regular cps. I got a testimonial for you, quote. I was new at my position when i began working with wagner cpas. My confidence has grown knowing that i can rely on the professionals of wagner to answer any questions and make recommendations that will ensure the success of our non-profit. And you see, i always say they go beyond the numbers. This’s the truth. It comes out right here in the testimonials, we were given sound advice enabling us to increase investment income while at the same time protecting assets. Tony. Inserts a question. Does your audit firm do that for you? Recommending investment investment alternatives for you? I trust and respect our audit team and look forward to their annual visit end quote, how many do you look? I’m dying to know. Do you look forward? Your annual audit that’s probably more like dreading your annual audience, but somebody from this midsize religious organization in the midwest looks forward to their annual audit. You can to check out wagner, regular cpas dot com apolo software you’re non-profit but you used accounting software made for business stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books like quickbooks turbo cash asap microsoft they’re not made for you. They don’t do fund accounting for you. They’re built for businesses apple owes accounting is designed for non-profits it’s in the dna for tired for pete’s sake it’s in a dna easy, affordable and you need thio use to check out the pricing. By the way, it is quite reasonable non-profit accounting for you, they’re at non-profit wizard dot com now time for tony steak too. Next month on non-profit radio you’re twenty eighteen planning if you want free business coaching in twenty eighteen we’ll have a guest from score he’ll be telling you all about it. You’re online giving plan for twenty eighteen joe garrick, the fund-raising authority will be with me. Where’s, the new tax law mean for your overall twenty eighteen fund-raising plan. Jean takagi is going to parse it out for us. How about in twenty eighteen? You get free software and consulting from oracle net suite. The vp of their social impact team will be on plus maria and reassemble course. You know her aimee semple board. You know her with their twenty eighteen plans. It’s all in january. Or you need to do is listen. And that lovely is listener is tony steak too? And doesn’t that sound like live listener? Love is coming up. Indeed. You were right would reach new jersey. Woodbridge, i want you to identify yourself. I demand it. Otherwise you have to stop listening. I want to know who this season. Woodbridge, new jersey. So loyal! Identify yourself! Use the hashtag non-profit radio on twitter, email me tonia tonia martignetti dot com i wanna know who you are. Tampa, florida, new york, new york multiple thank you for that live listeners love to all these places port murray in new jersey honolulu, hawaii killing worth connecticut live. Listen, love going out there, the honolulu i don’t think we’ve had certainly not recently, i don’t know if you’ve had a little before live love going out there all those places. How about in china, guangzhou, lee, how and other in china that we cannot see? That’s interesting. Guangzhou we can see other cities we cannot see. But now to everyone in china, united kingdom, of course live lesser love to you tokyo tokyo was with us. Konichiwa, germany is with us. Guten tag germany on germany mast and also castle kassell, germany, putin dog to everyone in germany listening and also in japan toko ri zala, konnichi wa to took a result. How about those podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand of you, the vast majority of our audience that’s where you’re listening and pleasantries go to you. Thank you, podcast listeners for being with us and i am and fm affiliate listeners throughout the stations throughout the station’s well throughout the stations throughout the world yeah, throughout the country anyway. Throughout the stations throughout the country affections, affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners in those stations throughout the states throughout the country, affections to you. Dennis miller’s with us, you know him, we’re talking about his book, a guide to recruiting your next ceo, you know, we can we can cover the whole book, so just get the thing we’re going to say, you know, it’s, a dentist, see miller dot com that’s where you’ll find dennis in this book just get the damn thing, it’s just that i don’t know how to make it any plainer. All right. Anyway, denis let’s, continue our our joint through, um okay, so we’ve got a bunch of resumes and the book goes through lots of lots of resume screening tips. I mean, when they really don’t have time to go through all the tips, but there’s a lot there. Now we’re into interviewing. So you say there are two things we’re looking for? They were looking for the interpersonal and skills ability? Absolutely. I mean, the tv process. Once we screen people in terms of resume on paper, we certainly begin actually with phone interviews and then once leaves, go to the phone into the process and we can get a better sense of with they are as a potential candidate, we may explain a final car. Weather at one of salary package so without wasting people’s time here. But there are a couple two things you’re looking for. Um, do they have a cultural? Do they have interpersonal skills that will build your team on the team builders over there? You know, ah, they collaborators of the communicators and then obviously did they have the ability to deliver positive results? And i think those two things is what kind of, you know, separates the people who get to positions and those that don’t hear i we advised certainly the search committee on, you know, the question should be focused on limited tony to, you know, their person’s behavior, their skills, their experience, what they bring to the table, not things that deal, what things like, you know, age and discrimination and gender and all those kind of things that you want to avoid. But the bottom line is who can communicate their ability to get along with people because it’s a team game antionette glamarys also there too, things that are a crucial now one of things that you may ask me, i’ll just what answer ahead of time we have and your listeners can get their contact and get onto our newsletter. But we at non-profit search dot com. We provide a candidate matrix that has sort of a scoring sheet with certain questions on it. Ah, what a total score fifty. And whether it’s on leadership, communications, street, strategic planning, board, relationships, etcetera. So when people of actually going to the interview process on the search committee and you’ve got forty eight people, suppose, you know, going in the search committee members can evaluate for people. And i have this matrix a kind of sense of where, you know, people come out scores and usually it’s a good tool that have for them. You have a lot of resources at the non-profits search dot com. So you mentioned throughout the book, but that’s scoring matrix is one of them. All right, so let’s, get into some details here. Now is the whole committee meeting with every every candidate. Because if it’s subsets of a committee meeting with different candidates, then i don’t think that doesn’t seem fair to me because different subsets or going to judge people differently. Yeah, well, here’s what we do, um and, um the answer is that the entire search committee needs prepared to interview all the candidates now in a case we just have here. Because it’s got multiple locations. There are actually eight people on, uh, a search committee and four will meet in one location and four met another location. Actually, each candidate each of the five final candidates you met which weiss but they but they are all seeing yet you cannot have one group meets somebody. Candidates and another good meet the only other candy that’s part of the process with a search committee. He’s gonna be on the committee. You have to have the type of zoho so every every candidate should be seen by every person on the search committee. Absolutely. You you advocate. I mean, this is sort of a no brainer, but just make it explicit. You know, you don’t want to be asking. Yes, no questions. You are open ended questions. Yeah. You you don’t want to say, you know, you want to you want to engage him in conversation and they want to get you in a conversation two and so, you know, asking questions. What was the most challenging thing you had a deal with in your current? Position on your most recent position. What was the you know, your biggest achievement? Hey, is an issue for us. How would you deal with it? You stay away from the yes and no questions. And we have, you know, we’ve identified on a website and our resources and our book here, you know, question to be asking, but yeah, not open it. Not not. Yes or no. Open ended questions. Engagement of conversation is the best of them. Okay, let’s say, we’ve everybody has interviewed all the candidates. Uh, now what’s, our next step in the committee. Well, what you want to do is the one i have everybody’s gonna score the candidates and give feedback on the candidates and have the board chair or someone assigned to oversee the accumulation of all the scoring. So you can see how people did. And then what you want to do is and what we do is i have a conversation with this chair of the search committee. And then, uh, i will meet with the search committee. One of my senior member of the team will meet with the search committee depending where the searches on what it’s for and then we they may determine that. Listen, there’s one final candidates is one person they like, and they want to bring him back to meet with people in the organization. Take him on a tour or there’s. Two final plans. They’re not sure. So that there’s a process here. The process here is obviously too, uh, what? The other candidates know that they did well and they thank him before participating. But there’s someone at this point in time that has a skill centre experience. That’s mohr meets the needs of my client. Ah, we hope to see him again the future and then focus in on, you know, having to help them make a final decision on the candidate before we get involved and advise him on making, making a final offered and employment contract employment agreement right now in this scoring, obviously somewhere going to score highest and high esten hyre than others. But suppose there’s just there’s just a sense that, you know, even the highest scoring one or two, they’re just they’re just not right. It was just, you know, like i said, every in a group of five somebody’s going to score the highest but but even that highest one, they just don’t feel right. You know, how do we we feel like we may have to go back to the go back to the recruitment process. Well, have expressed happened. You know, only once in my recent experience, where in most cases, uh, in addition, the scoring members of the search committee and, you know, as you know, the millions and millions of people that serve our non-profit board throughout this country and in other countries and canada, you know, our bright, committed people they gotta see if you get a feel for you know who you think would fit in here. So usually, you know, the scores will help you because it gives us feedback. But usually you get a kind of a feeling you would be the best person for that. If there’s a situation, um, that, you know, the search committee sees the final candidates. And if it happens that you feel like there’s, you know, just not feeling it for those candidates. I absolutely would highly recommend that he go back and do the search again. We have a situation with a very prominent national foundation. Uh, we started with believing out of pool of eighteen candidates, uh, middle down, teo wither down to eleven that was down to five and five people came in, and so with the entire team and that team in there of identified, you know, to people and long behold some discussion and some some time issues and then people not sure what decision to make and there was some inexperience on the team making the decision and they kind of planted and they just, uh, well, i’m not sure i’m ready to pull the trigger, so we were disappointed for the work we did. We will back out into the search again, and usually you don’t get the great candidates again, and we did, and it worked out so it’s for some reason, you don’t feel it. I dont just say, well, because is a high score because you’re going to live with this person quarter what use with this not happen, tony, you, um you know, the search is doing the work, you’ll get the right candidate, but if a some reasons you feel that, you know, this is i just don’t feel it for this person is going to fit in here. Then don’t just pick someone because of scored the scores are one of the many tools will you offer to help you pick your candidate? Is this a stage where we should be calling references now? We’ve we’ve narrowed it down to our top two or so, yeah, so what way? Well, a cz we get the final can’t wait do ask for a reference, but here’s, what we do, we don’t ask them, they could tell us who they’re going to use the reference we are specific and ask him for the type of reference we’re looking for example, and a ceo case we know they can’t talk about the company, we’d like the house, then talk. We’d like to talk to someone who is a boardmember maybe a boardmember another organization would like to talk to someone that appear that they have done a lot of work with. We would like to talk to someone that has worked for them, so, uh, we don’t always talkto the references i had a time, because if you’ve got, you know, four final candidates we spent about our time it’s that wee if you’re not going to be chosen, why go? Through the house full of asking people speaking the reference. But with your various final candidate, we actually do a thorough construct. And i have a little bit of a funny story that that you listen, um, you may enjoy just quickly here, and it goes back a long time ago when i did my first search believing not thirty years ago. And i was recruiting someone to head up a healthcare foundation and came down to two people. And there was a man, a woman. And i remember the, uh the man had sort of mohr experience, but the young woman has seemed like much more potential. Anyway, for some reason, the man had given me a list of ten references. Don’t ask me why, but he gave me ten references, and i call it the first six references. Iss man kind of walked on water. He was, you know, could have been their spiritual guru by the time i got seven. Eight. I really got a sense that people were not that comfortable. Then by the time i got the nine and ten people were asking me, you know, why did you what did this guy even you? Give me a reference, i recommend anything, so the moral stories you want to keep, you know, kind of dig in here and it’s, certainly you have a right as a as an organization, and you have a right as a search committee to, you know, find out what you know about people, which is what we do, um, and same time protecting confidential alley, but certainly, you know, we need to do with our research on them and in addition to references, we obviously do a check on educational credentials, and then we advise our clients baseball what state they’re in about what they can do and not teo regarding they want pursue, uh, feeling criminal background check will and credit credit risk of credit reports. It sounds like that guy on his word document that he gave you with the list of what was thirty years ago. We didn’t have work, but have we have word we’re going? We’re using them word perfect where you had toe right down at the bottom, you have to change the bold face down at the bottom of page. Anyway, it sounds like he conflated his do not use list with his reference list that he did want to use like the last four we’re we’re on a separate list and he somehow put the two of them together. All right, we got to take a break, tell us credit card and payment processing. They have a video. Check out the video at tony dahna slash tony tello’s. It explains what the process of businesses switching to tell us is and how you the non-profit that refers them will get fifty percent of the revenue that tello’s urns that’s passive revenue for you your organization. Each month it talks about their one hundred percent satisfaction rate. They have a price match guarantee, but that’s in the video, but for non-profit radio listeners, you get way beyond a mere price match. If if tell us, can’t help, you’re the first referred business is by saving the money, not just matching but saving. Then you get that two hundred fifty dollars, that you’ve heard me talk about, so worth it for you very likely tell us we’ll be able to save the money, but just in case not you’re protected and so is the business. Really, because it’s still still then is helping you. In the video covers, free switching to tell us they have a ninety day easy out but tell us has a hundred percent satisfaction rate, so they’re not gonna need not gonna need the easy out ninety days. That means there and it’s free, but they’re not going to eat it, but it is there, but they’re not gonna need it. Think about the businesses that make sense for you to refer and check out the video at tony dot m a slash tony tell us now, back to dennis miller and his book, a guide to recruiting next ceo let’s continue our joint ajanta dennis okay, so we’ve checked references, references and this and that we’re bringing some people in were like site tours and what their meeting some of the staff now too, and maybe even some of some of the people who are getting our services no, what we worked a man don’t do that metoo staff until they are having a place where we don’t really know sexuality you don’t. You don’t really want the staff on my opinion on a ceo level. Uh, they have to pick the ceo if it’s another level? Certainly if it’s achieve opening office of chief financial officer it’s totally appropriate to have other members of the executive team meet with them. The finer who’s a better vet culture that’s line. Okay, but on a ceo though you are make it clear that the board is making the decision and i would not have staff involved on interviewing until all right. So who are they meeting that in thiss day when they’re going to visit the visit the site? Well, so many have gone to the search committee. Obviously, there is no one else to meet except the entire board. So if you’re talking about the ceo, which is what? We are way wrong that once a search committee has made decision before on offers made it’s what the search committee wants to do doesn’t really have any authority to itself. You wantto search committee should be making a recommendation to the entire board and in many cases, and i will advise us is have that final ceo or in the case where this too close candidates committed meet the entire board may be on the same day, you know, spend a little time with each one. Um, if if there’s one that’s clearly, uh, the person that everybody wants don’t waste the time of having to feel you have to bring a second one and you give it someone hope when is when they’re not probably going to be selected but i have an interesting story, tony, that you listen. May one here, uh, about a year ago we did a search for a ceo and the search committee had him ranked wanted to have this ah, woman rank one in a guy number two. And i had agreed with that recommendation thought it was the best way of going. And by the time those two candidates came in to meet with the entire board and this is an unusual situation ah, the board ended up going with the number two candidate and not the number one candidate and some things came up in discussions. Then i think at the end of day they made the right decision. So don’t forget the board has a final hiring authority. They delegate that that a search committee to search committee xero recommended candidates, but do not hire a ceo from a search committee on ly they must meet the entire board. Have you ever heard of co ceos? Yeah, i have and i found it never. Well, couple times it rarely works there. It works in a case where today there’s a lot of mergers and acquisitions, so both people take on the role of co ceo won, they have responsibility for maybe certain geography one than another o once focus more on one thing before not tow have it. I think coz ceos is like koh board chairs. It doesn’t make a feeling that anybody’s really in charge. Um, i’m working with an organization right now out in california because we do certainly national searches as well as in canada and, you know, there’s a transition going on and is this it the heart organization? It’s important to know who’s in charge? So if it has to happen and you’re particularly the merger, can you have it? Yes, but ideally it sooner than later. It’s only a transition. You can’t have a co ceo doesn’t work. I’ve seen coach, chief development officer and it doesn’t work either. I mean, i think someone has to be in charge. So that’s my opinion. Okay, way explored co ceos with jean takagi, so if anyone wants teo, get more on that. That was the main nineteenth twenty seventeen show with jean ok, alright, we, uh we it’s time to negotiate an offer we were ah, we’ve selected our top one you like guards, guidestar they have i don’t know if you mentioned i know them. Guide star has a has a good salary guide comes out every year. So it’s it’s current but you have other studies that you like? Yeah, a couple of things we have a good sense of what the marketplaces like different geography, maybe waken use guide star and i i like the organization well, but here’s the palm and it’s not guide, says the bomb is that usually the data that’s in there where you have the five highest, complicated employees? It’s probably two years old, even if it says two thousand sixteen and you’re in seventeen, it may have been, you know well, about a june of two thousand fifteen, so i don’t rely upon that nestle as a guide for making offer. I know what the organization is looking to pay. I know what what the sally is. People that are looking and then we i advise uh, i’m involved in every ceo, so i advise my client is what i think it’s going to take to get the person i’ve seen clients do salary surveys using geiser and other things that committee from other compensations raised there’s nothing wrong with it, but what you don’t get from that, you don’t know, uh, what the performance of the organization has been you don’t know how well they’ve done. You don’t know what, how well they’ve done with fund-raising, you know, you don’t know much about him other than what the total budget is. So on one of the advantages of a search for meditation now based upon the work they’re doing what what the rate is to attract some money and that’s kind of what we do. Okay, let’s, spend our last couple minutes. Ah, you know, you just got it by the book because there’s a lot more about negotiating the offer in the book, but i want to spend last couple minutes, just about two minutes or so on on onboarding this’s a board responsive board responsibility. Well, it’s a big thing. I mean, you know, if you talk to ceos, i mean half of them have never been on border. So what does? What does he mean by sort of onboarding candidate? Well, uh, our onboarding onboarding if you don’t get onboarding you get hired and then you start and then you go geez, i don’t know this is the way itwas, you know, you’re not supported in your new job. So dahna whatyou onboarding were first to the idea of preparing a ceo to adjust to the new social, cultural and professional components of the new role and or to the board here, really very important that i be some type of onboarding process um, so as example here, here’s some things you would want to be thinking about what onboarding here is, um, let’s be clear. So both the board and the ceo and again, you could say the same thing about a ceo or cfo. What she development altum same thing here is what are the expectations of each other? Clearly that’s gonna come up during entry puss, but that needs to be known. How often does the board chair want to communicate to the ceo? Did they want to meet monthly? Did they want have a phone conversation on every other friday did they want emails or not emails that they want to meet for breakfast? Um, what does the board want the ceo to accomplish in the first thirty days or sixty days, or maybe one hundred eighty days? Uh, what the cultural issues or financial is that the organization is facing, um, what senior members of the team may have some performances the watch out for who had the key stakeholders outside the organization like donors of all tears that you want to see how to make sure that building wishes, perhaps maybe with a local congress person or a member of the senate assembly here. Dennis, we’ve got to leave it there. There’s too much. All right, keep a melissa. Thank you, tony, for this. I appreciate you and all your happy holiday season and the great thank you so much, dennis. Same for you. Get the book. It is a guide to recruiting your next ceo. You’ll find it at dennis c miller dot com and you’ll find him at dennis c miller next week. Happy new year. There is no live show affiliate listeners. You are covered. Of course we’re going to replay zombie. Loyalists. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant weinger sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com appaloosa accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna may slash tony tell us our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, slam sam, sam the slam liebowitz is the line producer show social media is by susan chavez, and this very cool music is by scott stein of brooklyn’s. Thank you for that information, scotty with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio Knowledge Base: Board Fundraising

 

It’s critical. And I know it’s a big, big problem for a lot of nonprofits.

Major Gifts 2.0: Straight Talk For Your Board [video]. Get a CEO’s perspective on board fundraising! My guest is Jennifer Herring, CEO of The Maritime Aquarium.

With Deborah Stanley from Blackbaud, A Board That Brings In The Bucks. She wants you to lose the fear of asking!

Your Board Can Fundraise with Dennis Miller, consultant.

From a few weeks ago, Your Board On Grants, with regular contributor Cindy Gibson. Our discussion applies to all fundraising, really.

Here’s the first Knowledge Base article, on Branding.

Nonprofit Radio for April 11, 2014: Strategic Alignment

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guest:

Dennis Miller

Dennis Miller
Dennis Miller

Dennis Miller wrote “The Power of Strategic Alignment,” his third book, because he’s seen too many nonprofits expend time, energy and money without achieving the success they hoped for. He wants to turn that around.

 

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