Tag Archives: Yigit Uctum

Nonprofit Radio for February 21, 2020: Hiring Your Audit Firm & Equitable Compensation

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My Guests:

Yigit Uctum: Hiring Your Audit Firm
When it’s time to change your auditors, what do you look for? And how best to work together? I talk through the relationship with Yigit Uctum, a partner at Wegner CPAs.



Gene Takagi: Equitable Compensation
Gene TakagiIs your compensation schedule fair? What does that mean and why should you care? Gene Takagi returns for a full discussion. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.




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[00:00:14.24] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week. It’s Debra Elizabeth Finn in Boston, Massachusetts. She shared non profit

[00:00:28.99] spk_2:
radio with her group, Mission based Massachusetts. I’m always grateful to those of you who share the show. If you do, let me know. I will shout you out as

[00:00:38.00] spk_1:
well. Many thanks, Deborah. Thank you so much. Congratulations

[00:00:45.00] spk_2:
on being our listener of the week. I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with Roman. Is, um if you poison to me with the idea that you missed today’s

[00:00:49.97] spk_1:
show hiring your audit firm when it’s time to change your auditors, What do you look for? And how do

[00:00:55.96] spk_2:
you best work together? I talked through the relationship with you. Eat each tomb, a partner at wegner-C.P.As

[00:01:09.51] spk_1:
and equitable compensation. Is your compensation schedule fair? What does that mean? And why should you care? Jean Takagi returns for a full discussion.

[00:01:11.77] spk_2:
He’s our legal contributor and principle of neo the non profit and Exempt Organizations Law

[00:01:47.61] spk_1:
group. And he’s in the studio. Authorities take two planned giving relationship stories were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com But Cougar Mountain Software, Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Martin for a free 60 day trial. And by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. I’m very pleased to welcome back to the show and to the studio you coach Doom. He’s a partner at wegner-C.P.As

[00:02:06.41] spk_2:
with over 13 years of experience. He works exclusively with tax exempt organizations. He oversees Wagner’s Form 9 90 nationwide preparation practice and leads their New York City operations. The firm is that wegner-C.P.As dot

[00:02:07.94] spk_1:
com. You know that And at wegner-C.P.As. Welcome back.

[00:02:12.68] spk_3:
Thank you for having your back.

[00:02:13.94] spk_1:
That’s a pleasure. Stand a little closer to the

[00:02:15.72] spk_2:
mike so we can hear you. Yes. There. Thank you.

[00:02:18.34] spk_1:
Um, getting from Madison, Wisconsin.

[00:02:21.16] spk_2:
Thank you. How cold is it? There now is pretty called people.

[00:02:26.03] spk_3:
When I left, it was like like 10 degrees. I don’t know. I don’t pay attention after I leave. Okay.

[00:02:32.36] spk_2:
When it gets below 20 does it matter? And it

[00:02:35.14] spk_3:
doesn’t matter. What

[00:02:35.93] spk_1:
Can you tell that between 10 and zero.

[00:02:38.90] spk_3:
I can You can’t. The marginal difference it is called. It’s

[00:02:42.71] spk_2:
just all called anything

[00:02:45.12] spk_3:
below one of the state f

[00:02:47.84] spk_1:
in cold. Okay, um, so we’re talking about the audit relationship. So first of

[00:02:50.63] spk_2:
all, what? What goes into What are we asking an order for him to do before we get into how to hire them. What is it we’re expecting from an audit?

[00:03:20.94] spk_3:
So, basically from an audit by the professional standards, you expect someone independent to go over your and simple terms like, I’m gonna get technical, go over your accounting records and internal controls, overcome over financial reporting and basic issue. Their opinion based on their all its procedures bedroom, not your financial statements are fairly stated in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles.

[00:03:30.63] spk_1:
Yeah, I know. And

[00:03:31.50] spk_3:

[00:03:31.62] spk_2:
don’t have my college accounting class.

[00:03:58.16] spk_3:
Yeah, absolutely. And based on the audit, he also expect some recommendations like they don’t have to give one, but ah, that the relationship is auditors have the expertise working with similar organizations and know the best practices. And if they identify any weaknesses in your systems, they’re also required to report that. But in addition, they also make recommendations as evaluated service.

[00:04:01.79] spk_2:
So it’s much more than just a numerical analysis. Absolutely. You’re talking about going into processes, trains, accountability, etcetera,

[00:04:10.88] spk_3:
right? Absolutely. Yeah. We going to accounting systems, looking at the system’s looking, get who’s involved in certain procedures and what controls are in place and everything. So

[00:04:24.65] spk_2:
meaning board members, senior employees going into those depends

[00:04:27.80] spk_3:
on who were working it, like really small organizations that may be one person organization. Then he would want board the moment as part of the internal controls. If the non profit is large enough, they can have the internal control environment between the organization but typically organizations. Most nonprofits. They’re off a certain small size, and you you want some board government’s involvement in Internal Control says Okay,

[00:05:01.30] spk_2:
and then and then these recommendations. You’re saying that’s based on having done hundreds of audits of similar type organizations. You could make some recommendations, give advice about I could be doing some things better. Absolutely there. I guess they’re okay, but you could be doing things will smarter,

[00:05:14.40] spk_3:
like doing it more efficiently or doing it a little differently and again like that can be some best practice recommendations as well as some recommendations to address certain weaknesses in the internal control system. So that can be two different things.

[00:05:30.04] spk_2:
Okay, so it’s so It’s like including business practices is we’re

[00:06:16.49] spk_3:
losing business practices as well, so we’re not required to his auditors to look at certain things. But people expects us to look at things, even if it’s not part of thought. It se RV makeover some insurance invoices gonna required to make sure that they have enough coverage for certain things. But that’s something that, based on looking at it, such as like external fraud coverage, like looking at the today’s environment. Barry People’s a concert, getting hacked and everything. You may have an insurance policy for cyber security. Let’s say it may cover up to $10,000 with a $5000 deductible. Well, that’s not really very much money, exactly. So if someone, then the may look at that and maybe recommend that you know you may want topped us a little bit by paying just a little in premium. Say another 100,000 premium, you increase that coverage from 110,000 or something like that.

[00:06:29.20] spk_2:
Okay, Okay. So I mean there’s so there’s lots of different areas you can just

[00:06:32.48] spk_3:
a little bit.

[00:06:33.64] spk_1:
Okay. Um, so we have a couple

[00:06:39.89] spk_2:
of minutes before our before our first break? Uhm, why don’t we get into the, uh

[00:06:42.11] spk_1:
oh. I do want to ask

[00:06:43.00] spk_2:
you how long is an audit process that’s based on the size of the farm? Really?

[00:07:00.19] spk_3:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. On the duration depends on how responsive each part iss basically so and so it can very quickly

[00:07:02.05] spk_1:
doesn’t have to be done on site or

[00:07:48.06] spk_3:
it does not have this day and age like out of organizations keep records electronically and it can be them through video conferencing, teleconferences and looking everything online and just document sharing. Yeah, and and absolutely and out off times, man. Dorrit is done on site daughter. They’re sitting in a conference room. Email the client email E Glendale back. So it’s like, you know so. But it’s face to face is good summits depends on preference. A cz Well, so are some people prefer it that pay and there’s advantages and dissidents just off face to face, like onside auditing versus virtual Auditing one is flexibility, but the danger is the order can direct longer if it’s totally virtual. And if both parties will not commit to the timeline. So,

[00:07:53.24] spk_2:
yeah, the timeline and document sharing like responsiveness,

[00:07:57.83] spk_3:
but it does not have to be done on site.

[00:08:08.83] spk_2:
Okay. Okay. Cool. Um, all right. So we got another minute or so before before break. And so I So let’s start to get into what we’d be looking for in a firm, and then we’ll go more detail after our parents just want to be looking for

[00:08:16.64] spk_1:
I think

[00:08:48.37] spk_3:
the number one thing, that’s the most important thing. The expertise and experience. You want a firm that is capable off doing the audit. They have experience working with organizations that ah, have your the same needs. You may be operating under a separate federal grant. Let’s stay and on everything is different. Like just because an organization is a non profit, it doesn’t mean they’re doing the same things. They don’t have the same requirements. I think number one thing is to have the expertise toe do the audit. Okay,

[00:09:03.48] spk_2:
so that’s interesting. Like if your revenue stream is different than a similarly sized organization than the order is going to be very different. You’re saying if it’s your old federally funded versus revenue for service is

[00:09:05.10] spk_3:
or purely foundation

[00:09:10.11] spk_2:
foundation. Okay, so the different character of revenue not just don’t base it on they do audits of organizations that have 20 employees. And that’s about what we have, so that

[00:09:20.17] spk_3:
I know it’s all different. Okay,

[00:09:22.83] spk_1:
okay. All right. So let’s take this first break, which you’re a part of because it’s wegner-C.P.As, which I’m grateful for. So wegner-C.P.As, of course. Thank you. I’m saying all time

[00:09:43.53] spk_2:
forgot. Take their CPS way. No, we’re getting a dick. We’re getting detail about what the audit is, but basically, it’s kind of like a dentist. You get an idea of what? An order what wegner-C.P.As firm does for you. I’m typically saying, start your due diligence at wegner-C.P.As dot com and then pick up the phone because that’s how I like to communicate. But it is going to

[00:09:49.38] spk_1:
talk to you because you know, a partner in the firm, cause serious. So what’s that? If I’m picking up the phone

[00:10:08.10] spk_2:
and calling you and saying I looked at your was on the website, you might help us. We need some help with our, uh 9 90 Wait. I feel like we can’t. It’s beyond our capability doing in house anymore. What would that What would that look like? That call look like

[00:10:34.01] spk_3:
that Cole would look like. Basically, I would be asking some questions. Will identify your needs better on Do we have, like, Haman states? Are you registered then? And kind of try to understand what you have kind of try to understand your organization. And I would liketo look at your previous 9 90 kind of to someone else’s and such. And basically that you know what we can do for you. And if it works out, you will start working together. So

[00:10:41.70] spk_1:
Okay, Thank you. Start your

[00:10:42.09] spk_2:
due diligence at wegner-C.P.As dot com and then pick up the phone.

[00:10:45.04] spk_1:
Talk to you. It’s friendly, guy. I mean, he wouldn’t be on the show. I wouldn’t have it back

[00:10:51.13] spk_2:
if it wasn’t that way. So wegner-C.P.As dot com. Okay, let’s go back. Thio.

[00:10:56.35] spk_1:
So now this is a This is gonna

[00:11:01.03] spk_2:
be our audit. Hiring already firm is an

[00:11:01.34] spk_1:
r f p. Typical in this

[00:11:11.66] spk_3:
kind of peace. Typical. Like I would say 80% 90% off the time we receive an R F P and on. Then the process starts after that.

[00:11:15.16] spk_2:
Okay, how do we, as an organ, decide who to send the R. P too?

[00:11:55.88] spk_3:
Basically, um, ask for references, referrals from from somebody that you trust. So usually ah, it can be the board that may be deciding that. And they may be serving in other other organizations, which they may be familiar with. Their audit firms. Like that might be one thing. The other thing is a lot off firms are now using our source accounting firm that dough there today. Today, accounting. And they may. They work with a lot of water firms as well, and they may give you some recommendations based on your size and such. And or you can go Google firms. Yeah, Lam profits in the year, for example, and see who come up and then send our fees that day. So it’s got multiple ways off.

[00:12:13.56] spk_1:
It doesn’t have to

[00:12:16.45] spk_2:
be local, though. I mean, the point was you could do this. Could be done virtually. It

[00:12:19.26] spk_3:
doesn’t have to be a local. No,

[00:12:20.79] spk_1:
but use your networks

[00:12:21.94] spk_2:
absolutely aboard other CEOs, you know, rather CFO’s. You know, if that’s your situation, you know, use your networks. Okay. Um

[00:12:31.08] spk_1:
are there other sample R f p C

[00:12:41.24] spk_2:
o r. I mean, is this stuff on the web like, all crappy are thes. I mean, how do you develop this R p? Basically,

[00:12:52.84] spk_3:
you can start with a template and there’s a lot off them on stone line. You can point some, but I highly encourage people organizations toe really like first determine why you are looking for a change. Like, what is that you did not like with your current relationship and make sure that how you want that relationship change, make sure that you put those criterion the ft so that you’re looking like you kind of identify your needs and what you’re looking for. What’s important to you.

[00:13:13.84] spk_2:
OK, so, like, of turnover bothered you or fee or timetable?

[00:13:20.44] spk_3:
Absolutely. I think timetable is one of the many reasons by organizations Look for a new firm because the day prior firm are the firm that they use are not meeting their timelines.

[00:13:44.48] spk_2:
Okay? Meaning what? Like the organization should How does how does the timeline get get determined that that the firm may not be, er yeah, complying with

[00:14:26.74] spk_3:
to say, um and you’re an organization and you want to present your audit in June, tow the board of directors. Okay, The audit firm somehow cannot meet that deadline or a lot of times thes here. Some complaints from prospects, they say, Okay, our audit is done. Mother 9 90 doesn’t get done for another six months. So that maybe like a I was look at the tax and the audit as one engagement. Okay, it’s part of one relationship and that maybe time spared the audit is done on time, but then maybe the audit firm are the accounting firm has a separate department that does the tax work your 9 90 maybe that gets late. Guess it. Still, it is also, I think, is the point is like, I know what you want and have kind of like try to think about how you want that relationship to look like and put all those as your criteria in therapy. And as questions about have the firm would address those.

[00:14:50.09] spk_2:
What’s another reason besides the number one timing failures? What’s another reason you see people wanting toe change firms,

[00:15:25.64] spk_3:
increasing fees, and the other reason is if you’re a startup organization or some changes are happening, they say your small organizations. But you have growth plans, and the firm we are working with doesn’t have the expertise that you need as you grow so certain times like the small. When you’re small, you start with one firm. As you get bigger, your niece change and your current form is not able to meet them. And the other part might be responsiveness like you may not. You may be contacting your audit firm, and they don’t get back to you for weeks or, like the relationship kind off way,

[00:15:57.14] spk_2:
will feel that crappy customer service. Right? You are a vendor, you’re providing service. I don’t expect an email back in five minutes, but I think within 24 hours somebody should get back. Even if it’s this is a really busy day, you know? Can we talk later in the week or something? Give me something you’re inviting service something for

[00:16:07.53] spk_3:
the other reason is errors like sometimes errors are made and they don’t get found out until later. And once that’s why not. You know they may wanna change firms because then your expertise is being questioned.

[00:16:16.15] spk_2:
Yeah, How do? How do audit errors get found? I mean, it’s the audit. That’s just be finding errors. How do you find errors in your audit?

[00:16:32.34] spk_3:
Basically, maybe the audits firm missed procedure or Mr An Error that was present in the financial statements, Baby, they didn’t do enough. That’s thing. Maybe something may happen. I mean, that can’t be errors. How

[00:16:35.34] spk_2:
do you just how does the organization discovered the error

[00:16:38.18] spk_1:
It’s got me

[00:16:48.38] spk_3:
discovers in to waste. One is internally. Someone looks at it in a different from a different perspective, or something else comes up, they need to go back. And something doesn’t make sense. For example, today and then you go back and look at previous documents and find out that all this should have been treated differently, for example, and the audit firm did not catch it. Okay,

[00:17:05.89] spk_1:
okay. I’m guessing it’s probably

[00:17:07.13] spk_2:
not a board that often, you know, in in its review of the audit, I don’t see your average board member finding the mistakes in the audit.

[00:17:15.28] spk_4:
Typically not. They

[00:17:17.80] spk_1:

[00:17:37.69] spk_3:
find errors in maybe some narrative descriptions and such, but sometimes they do like some some board members are financial is everyday, be sits on the boards. They look at all the financials and they may be finding errors. But those errors are found before the artist gets issued, but still an error. So that kind of like whenever there’s an area that auditor didn’t catch, kindof like damages the credibility.

[00:17:46.96] spk_2:
Right? You’ve submitted it to the board as final. Okay.

[00:17:51.11] spk_1:
All right. So yeah, I mean, some

[00:17:52.95] spk_2:
organizations even have an order committee. Those are bigger non profit maps. Probably the universities, hospitals or whatever. Just a bigger. So they have no other committees, or presumably, yes. Then there’s expertise in that committee to scrutinize

[00:18:11.52] spk_3:
supposedly, hopefully rebuttable presumption in the year. For example, if you are required to have an audit your also required in order to comedy.

[00:18:18.78] spk_1:
Is that right? New York, you have to have an order

[00:18:20.31] spk_3:
committee will have toe.

[00:18:21.25] spk_2:
Okay. And what’s the threshold for an audit in New York? Current

[00:18:28.73] spk_3:
$750,000 in total revenue, assuming you have more than $25,000 in donations from New York.

[00:18:34.88] spk_2:
Okay, 25,000 in donations from New York and and 750,000 in total revenue

[00:18:40.80] spk_3:
or more yet

[00:18:42.15] spk_2:
born What? Right then That’s the trigger for in order to New York State. Yes, And I’m sure it varies widely across the States.

[00:18:48.65] spk_3:
It does. It does not. Every not every state has an audit committee requirement. For example, California has it, but their trash Holt is two million depends. And it’s also all its committed Rules are different in every state. Ho can be on the committee what they have to do. Everything is different. So

[00:19:06.82] spk_2:
you’ll be gratified to know that that Gene Takagi is in background nodding when you said the $2 million.

[00:19:15.74] spk_3:
That’s good to hear. I was right. You’ve indicated? Yeah,

[00:19:19.33] spk_2:
because I certainly don’t have the expertise. Not this question. Um

[00:19:21.34] spk_1:
okay, s so anything else you want to say

[00:19:23.71] spk_2:
about the therapy process before we get to evaluating the proposals that come in?

[00:19:30.86] spk_1:
Um, I think

[00:19:32.96] spk_3:
I think that’s pretty much it again. Like that said yes, you’re a portrait. It toe make

[00:19:37.24] spk_1:

[00:19:37.38] spk_3:
like a visual ist like, what do you wish tohave in your audit relationship and kind of go with that?

[00:19:44.16] spk_2:
Okay. All right. So now you get these, Uh, I guess you get what’s a reasonable. Number 44 proposals back or

[00:19:51.03] spk_1:
usually I

[00:20:13.75] spk_3:
see an average off three threes. The most common sometimes Thio. Sometimes more than that. I’ve seen up as much as 10. Yeah. Yeah. So they kind of issue for will not respond And something like that sometimes. Like something like when you center FB you asked, like, Are you going to respond or not? You know, So that’s the wrong questions that gets asked something. So

[00:20:20.75] spk_2:
and then if the firm doesn’t even respond to that

[00:20:23.01] spk_3:
than their low life Yeah, yeah.

[00:20:37.52] spk_2:
Don’t never refer them again. Exact. They don’t respond to your Are you going to respond to our f B question? Okay. All right. So you got you got your 3 to 4 proposals back. What are we doing now? I was looking for I would

[00:21:32.03] spk_3:
actually look for the, um, the overall response process like, are they? How did they respond to your initial when you sent direct appeals? Say, usually, now they come in e mails like, how are they responding to their art? A timely. And when you make appointments, are they late? Are they not late? Like in this stage, like a proposal stage if they’re not giving you the attention. Yeah, on. Very That’s a very bad sign off the overall relationship. I think the first impression, maybe last impression tow the time. So it’s really important to see how they handle things and always look for writing. What’s important relationship is not never make errors. But once you make an error, how do you recover from that? And I think it’s really important as well. And during the process, I think initially they take the time toe, ask us questions and today, or are you just sending like a blanket proposal without even

[00:21:47.09] spk_1:
That’s like asking a couple questions

[00:22:00.68] spk_2:
about what the perp, the R F P, says. That’s a good That’s a good sign. I mean, the firm is actually scrutinizing it. Paying close attention wants to be responsive to exactly what you’re asking. But they’re not sure exactly what you’re looking for, but also, but

[00:22:39.03] spk_3:
also basically see if they’re trying to identify your knees. I mean, you can put so much in writing in the Riviera. Peas are usually standards, and there’s so much else goes on at the firm. Are they trying to like understand? You’re really needs and how they can add value. Are they asking questions? So usually photography. You sent your most recent order to report and your 9 90 and ah, nde sometimes, like, put some description off what organization looks like now. But I think, um, the audit firm should be interested in the organization enough to ask some more questions on Try to learn more, as opposed to just

[00:22:48.29] spk_2:
just giving back the RP. But yeah, by the deadline,

[00:22:50.92] spk_3:
you have just told me in the other budgets for to me in the other speech church this much this is your fetus is the proposal versus taking the time to talk to them and asking questions and see

[00:23:04.96] spk_1:
OK, some engagement, like applying standard a common sense. You

[00:23:33.10] spk_2:
know, if you’re trying to hire a contractor for your home on dhe here, she’s not getting back to you, you know, at the at getting the business stage. That’s a bad sign, you know, or if they don’t seem to be listening to you about what it is you want to do. You know, you’re asking for their ideas and they don’t come back with ideas. They just come back with a fee you know the same. Same as same as hiring a vendor for your your audits facility. No, I haven’t sense, for God’s sake.

[00:24:09.96] spk_3:
The other thing I would look at as have they addressed all your points in the F B. Have they read the appear? Are you getting like a blanket proposal? I think that’s really important to you. And the hurting I would look at would be like, How is the presentation off the proposal like Is that looking sloppy? Are their errors like the spacing looks, beard or just aesthetics off the off? The proposal and errors in it like spelling errors, grammar errors like this? It’s free off errors. I think it’s important. Yeah, spokes. That looks like it’s somebody reviewing them before you send it to you.

[00:24:19.00] spk_1:
Um, what about a presentation? Is that is that typical

[00:24:21.84] spk_2:
toe have? Ah, maybe you narrow it down from 4 to 2 and you want them both to make a presentation to the board. Is that is that an unreasonable? That’s not

[00:25:16.25] spk_3:
unreasonable, And but that does not happen too often than the smaller organizations. Probably your listener base probably doesn’t happen. The presentations doesn’t happen that way. what does happen, though They, uh, there’s like a conference call the Save it with the treasure or the audit committee chair at the accountant or someone just follows up. Let’s say they I don’t. You get three and you eliminate Bond. Now you have the two, and you just have a called them or a meeting with them, but it doesn’t typically become like a formal presentation. But that does happen, though that’s not unusual to ask. Or definitely, I would encourage. That depends on how much time you want to spend, too.

[00:25:21.49] spk_2:
Okay, and then whether you want to get your board involved,

[00:25:24.17] spk_3:
I mean, it’s really hard to get people together. And Monroe

[00:25:28.00] spk_2:
suffered rumors to that effect about how difficult that can be. Um,

[00:25:33.64] spk_1:
you refer to something

[00:25:34.59] spk_2:
called AA Peer Review report on non ordered firms. What is that?

[00:26:23.45] spk_3:
Basically ah, every C p. A firm that does attestation engagements like audits reveals they need to go through a peer review every three years. Peer review is another C p. A firm basically comes in, doesn’t audit off your order to brag or like attestation practice, so it’s not only artistic look at reviews, they look at complications. They look at audits and just to see your following to professional standards and look at the quality off the work. And if you’re not doing good for Earth than you get findings just like you give findings. Oh, non profit organization in your artists. Yeah, the peer review C p a. Firm does the same thing for you. There’s, like levels or findings and such. But typically, I would look for I would definitely request that period the report. Even if there’s findings, you need to know what they are and have the firm responded to them.

[00:26:37.17] spk_2:
Okay, so it’s not something that’s public, but you can ask for it from the firm’s you’re considering.

[00:26:41.85] spk_3:
I I believe it’s public, too. You can go to the I. C. P s website and look for it. I’m pretty sure the American Institute of Certified Public Contents Yep. And find

[00:26:52.87] spk_2:
all the peer review reports for all

[00:26:54.24] spk_3:
the servi. They should be all day. Okay, Okay. But I would just ask for it in the part off the f B and they should put in the proposal.

[00:27:05.99] spk_2:
Okay, We have just about a minute left. Okay, So how about getting started. What? You’re like a number one or two. Top advice for for getting this new relationship off the ground,

[00:27:49.51] spk_3:
I would say, Set the expectations specialty timelines and make sure everyone is on the same page. So I think the dissatisfactions happens when there’s an expectation gap this one person is thinking it’s gonna have on this bay and the other one just don’t assume, just confirm and just have a meeting with thought it firm and come up. It agreed upon timeline. I think it’s really important, and it will work sport they like. If the organization still not provide the information, the auditors cannot do the work. So what we do in every audit, the established time lines, we start with men, they need order to be done by. And then we sent them the list and they can tell us when they can be ready. And then we’ll find time between when they can hear them and they need it done. I kind of like established dead pay,

[00:28:04.93] spk_2:
working backwards from when they

[00:28:06.08] spk_3:
need exact Exactly. So it just always keep the end in mind. Okay,

[00:28:15.78] spk_2:
let’s wrap it up there. Thank you. Very much you do. Partner wegner-C.P.As. The firm is wegner-C.P.As dot

[00:28:17.12] spk_1:
com and at wegner-C.P.As Thanks for coming back to the show and studio. Pleasure.

[00:28:23.62] spk_2:
Having a big thank you You okay? Cracking like a 14 year old, uh,

[00:28:29.10] spk_1:
need to take a break. Wegner. No cook about software. So

[00:28:30.99] spk_2:
what’s all the kinds of Whitney wegner wegner on the head?

[00:28:33.47] spk_1:
Cook a Mountain software is this one quote. We’ve been very happy

[00:28:36.64] spk_2:
with Cougar Mountain. It’s rare to encounter a problem with the software, but they’re always there to help. Walk me through it and

[00:28:42.74] spk_1:
quote that Sally Hancock in Altuna, Pennsylvania. Cougar Mountain

[00:28:46.63] spk_2:
has a free 60 day trial, which you’ll find on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant.

[00:29:17.39] spk_1:
Martin. Let’s do our live love. Ah, and it goes out. Thio Tip of Florida Washington D. C oh, cool Washington Not too often to Washington. Tucson, Arizona, Brooklyn, New York, New York, New York, Ontario, Calif. Ontario, Canada. Um, Seattle, Washington. Awesome. Upper West Norcross, Georgia South east of it Going abroad Moscow, Russia Thank you for being with us. Live love out to Moscow, Seoul, South Korea On your jasio consomme. Nita Live love out there. Tehran, Iran Also, Tehran’s been with us a couple times getting turning it, Theo loyal,

[00:29:41.74] spk_2:
live listeners. So the live love goes out and the pleasantries go out to the podcast audience. That’s our over 13,000 listeners on your

[00:29:45.55] spk_1:
own device, your own timetable, whatever fits into your life. I’m

[00:29:45.79] spk_2:
glad that it does. Thank you very much. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners.

[00:29:53.49] spk_1:
Time for tony Steak, too. Planned giving relationship stories

[00:29:55.60] spk_2:
is the current video that you will find a tony-martignetti dot com because when I did

[00:30:14.64] spk_1:
plan giving relationships, I left. The story’s out. Relationships are with people, and I left the people out of the first video. I talked about how the relationship gets started, the value of long term relationships to your organization and to you personally. And then I left out all the examples, so that’s that’s not I mean, it’s good as far as it goes, but it’s like half the story. If you can talk about relationships, how about some examples? So

[00:30:56.15] spk_2:
in plan giving relationships to the stories I give you some stories of, um, Eleanor and, uh, Evelyn and Barbara and James the before I tell stories about and, uh, you know I’m sure there have been hundreds. Well, there’s definitely 100. But, you know, some people are more memorable, memorable than others. And those are the four that came to mind first. So some touching stories in that video, which you’ll find at tony-martignetti dot com

[00:31:07.05] spk_1:
Now what a pleasure to welcome to the studio. Jean Takagi. He’s here in the studio in New York City. He’s the managing attorney of Neo, the non profit and Exempt Organizations Law group in San Francisco. He edits

[00:31:15.33] spk_2:
the wildly popular non profit law blogged dot

[00:31:24.34] spk_1:
com. He’s the American Bar Association’s 2016 outstanding non profit lawyer. He’s at G Tack. He’s Jean Jean, the law machine. Welcome to the studio, Gene. Too cocky. This is awesome. Done. It absolutely is. It’s 10 years since your first appearance on the show,

[00:31:35.23] spk_2:
and you’ve been a contributor for, like, nine and

[00:31:41.43] spk_1:
1/2 years or something. And here you are in the studio. I love it. Absolutely love it. Thanks so much. I’m so glad it worked out.

[00:31:43.37] spk_4:
I’m so happy to be here. It’s actually my first time in any studios, so it’s Ah, it’s a pleasure,

[00:31:49.80] spk_1:
Your life to your life up to this moment has brought you here. It’s all culminated here. This is the pinnacle. It’s all downhill from here.

[00:31:56.06] spk_4:
Mom can be proud.

[00:31:58.08] spk_1:
Sorry. Going down from here. Now, Um, this is

[00:32:00.83] spk_2:
wonderful. Really Is very, very good to see you. Um,

[00:32:04.67] spk_1:
So, um, this is a This is a little tough, touchy topic. We, uh you and I had a touchy topic

[00:32:10.01] spk_2:
when we talked about diversity equity and inclusion. Um,

[00:32:19.21] spk_1:
this one is, Ah, equitable compensation. Uh, you know, you you frame it for us. You please do. I think we

[00:32:39.13] spk_4:
could look at it in so many different dimensions. Tony mean one is is Do we pay? Everybody is Lois. Salary is absolutely possible, so we can try to serve as many people as possible. And that’s one level one level is we have this huge pay gap between men and women. What are we doing about that? There’s also gaps based on race on and other protected class issues as well. And sometimes it’s not just the legal problem.

[00:32:49.42] spk_2:
It’s not just the protected classes,

[00:32:57.34] spk_4:
right? It legally protected. Yeah, it’s just why are we paying this person differently from this person and is that institutionalized. Is that just personal discretion? Who are the decision makers there? Is there so many levels to this? But I agree can be a very controversial area,

[00:33:30.36] spk_2:
controversial and insightful. These are hard questions, you know? What should the gap be between the highest paid person in the organization and the lowest paid person organization? What should that ratio look like? And how do we justify it? Um and yeah, I I just I think I mentioned it, but I want to make drive home the point that we’re not just talking about classes that are legally protected.

[00:33:32.58] spk_4:
Yeah, I think we go go beyond that. And I think what you said about the highest paid to the lowest paid gap is really interesting. I think for CEOs it’s close to 285 to 1.

[00:33:44.60] spk_1:
Is that average non profits

[00:33:48.15] spk_4:
for for profit companies, non profit? It’s probably better. I don’t know if there’s been a study done on that, Um, but California is considering, Ah bill. Now that says, if your gap is more than 300 to 1, highest paid the lowest paid, typically the CEO versus sort of the average line worker We’re gonna increase your tax anywhere from like 2 to 6% on that. So it’s interesting to see now that the lock take over and say, We don’t like these pay imbalances and this is what we’re going to do about it,

[00:34:23.72] spk_1:
Yeah. How did Attorney practicing in California, How do you feel

[00:34:24.23] spk_2:
about the level of regulation in California? Do

[00:34:30.80] spk_1:
you feel it? You feel it’s burdensome? Or do you? I’m sure it’s. I’m sure you feel it’s right headed, but do you feel it’s excessive sometimes, or or not?

[00:34:37.30] spk_2:
Just like it’s the role of state government Thio make things fair and equitable for everybody.

[00:34:44.29] spk_4:
It’s a tricky question. I

[00:34:45.56] spk_1:
think some of

[00:35:30.68] spk_4:
the intent is is right. So the intent of the A G on the attorney general, typically the charity regulator in California, is to protect donors protect charitable dollars to ensure that they’re not being misused. But the problem can be is when some decisions are made about how regulations should be shaped or what type of bills the E A. G should sponsor or find a sponsor for, um, are they taking a few isolated, high profile problems in creating a solution for that and then that is, in effect creating a huge burden for everybody else who’s never done anything wrong. And what are the pros and cons when you look at its sector wide? And I think they don’t have the expertise or the people power to be able to make those decisions on their own Now, to their credit, they’ve been good about reaching out. We’ve actually sort of consulted with the A G from time to time in working discussion groups about how laws might impact the broader sector. But oftentimes, big corporations are in there here more often than the small Guy

[00:36:07.66] spk_2:
G is reaching out to you right now. They have lobbyists and professionals. Alright, alright, just I’ve wondered about that because it’s an activist state and a lot of states follow the California leader. At least look to see what California’s doing in lots of different lots of different areas. Environment, non profits of its wide

[00:36:10.71] spk_4:
Yeah, well should should add, though, that the non profit activists have actually been very good about this as well. In part, it partly why, when you eat was talking about the audit threshold in New York being 750,000. I think in California’s two million, because the non profit said That’s too low. It’s gonna be too expensive to have audits at that level. So we actually we’re more lenient on that front on the audit.

[00:36:36.18] spk_1:
Okay? All right. So, yeah, it’s not always stringent.

[00:36:46.03] spk_2:
CE stringency greater stringency. But it’s, you know, sort of recognized as, ah, highly legislated ST Ah, highly regulated state.

[00:36:49.07] spk_4:
I think that’s fair to say, and it makes it all the more important for nonprofits to actually speak up. Make sure that their legislators on dear regulatory bodies know what they want. Really important.

[00:37:03.12] spk_1:
So we’re talking about the

[00:37:29.82] spk_2:
compensation way, said it briefly, But again, it merits a little more attention. We’re talking about going beyond what the laws call for me. We have the Americans with disability act. We have the Civil Rights Act of 1964. We have other law bodies of law that govern compensation. But we’re looking as this more at is ah, as a just an equitable ethical moral issue.

[00:37:30.52] spk_1:
Yeah, and even if

[00:37:31.31] spk_4:
it doesn’t violate the law because I’m a lawyer, I always have to say

[00:37:34.44] spk_1:
Well, the law plays

[00:37:35.38] spk_4:
a part because even if you win a lawsuit when there’s an employee claim, just a have a lawsuit against you is incredibly demoralizing. It looks bad to your stakeholders, internal and external. So even if you’re lawfully doing everything right, if you’re ethically having some challenges or your stakeholders stopped believing in, you don’t believe that you’re you’re living into your values. You’ve got much, much bigger problems and just legal ones.

[00:38:03.01] spk_1:
Yeah, you’re trying to do social change,

[00:38:04.55] spk_2:
work social good. But your own organization is unfairly compensated that the salaries are out of whack in your own organization. But you’re trying to improve conditions for the porters or

[00:38:17.14] spk_1:
even if not, if it saves the environment. You’re trying

[00:38:19.23] spk_2:
to do social change, work and improve the state of the world. But your own organization is not a model for that.

[00:38:40.26] spk_4:
That and you can imagine. This gets really controversial when we talk about minimum wage and say, Well, we’re a social service organization that serves low income communities. We’ve got to pay minimum wage for workers. But in a city like New York City or San Francisco, that means they can’t even afford to live in the city right Now I’ve got to commute from the suburbs. And is that really equitable to your staff? Is that what you want to display to everybody else supporting you?

[00:38:50.72] spk_1:
You have this poverty myth, right? There are a lot of

[00:39:16.52] spk_2:
assumptions underlying what we get, where what we’re talking about the inequity on and one of them and then they get deeper. But one of them is this poverty myth that we’re doing social change, work and improving the world. And so, you know, that should be gratifying enough to you. So you get a 40% lower salary than someone doing comparable work. I don’t know another organization or because we feel we feel way can’t afford to pay you more or you get you get a discount from the for profit sector because you’re doing social good work. And that should be gratifying to you. And that has value. So we pay you less.

[00:39:31.73] spk_4:
And it’s really sad to say that actually, some employers, some non profit employers, see that as a legitimate screen that we are going to pay lower than we even can in order to find the most altruistic people possible. I don’t like that kind of idea, but you’ve heard

[00:39:47.22] spk_1:
that articulated.

[00:39:55.47] spk_2:
Yes. Okay, So to find the most altruistic people we’re gonna we’re gonna pay the least. So we’re gonna

[00:40:03.71] spk_1:
get what you pay for, you know? And And what kind of what kind of commitment or you’re getting out of workers who know that there being paid a bottom feeder salary?

[00:40:06.41] spk_4:
Yeah, again, something I strongly disagree with. But that thinking is still still out there.

[00:40:20.07] spk_2:
Okay, I wouldn’t have thought that it would be articulated, but you’ve heard it. A CZ. A theory of recruitment.

[00:40:21.88] spk_4:
Yeah, you’ll hear it in research studies done where they do surveys of organizations, and they explain their compensation systems and you’ll see what some of the rational czar and it pops up.

[00:40:35.01] spk_2:
Okay. All right. We got a couple minutes before break.

[00:40:36.25] spk_1:
Let’s talk about some

[00:40:36.82] spk_2:
of these other cultural assumptions that are underlying cause

[00:40:39.40] spk_1:
this is

[00:41:11.45] spk_2:
where it gets, you know, kind of ah gets unfair. Um, the professional degrees, um, immediately convey or no are automatically convey a value to the organization. So somebody who’s an MBA or an attorney or a c p a. No. Irrespective of whether the professional designation enhances the value. Literally, really. But just way value that over way immediately imply a value to that, even if the job doesn’t require that kind of skill or that kind of professional education.

[00:41:19.15] spk_4:
Yeah, and not to knock professional education.

[00:41:22.54] spk_1:
I got one. You’ve got one? Yeah,

[00:41:24.66] spk_4:
it’s great. But, um, life experience can sometimes be much more valuable or experienced in the job sort of characteristics and duties itself could be more more valuable than professional response are some sorry professional experience in an unrelated field. But so many organizations use education is kind of a factor of where they’re going to set their pay, and they set educational standards that they want when it doesn’t seem applicable to what the job requires. And we see organizations in the four profit world actually leave that thinking, especially in the tech industry, right? They don’t care if you have a graduate degree from Stanford, if you’ve got a bunch of coding experience that’s directly relevant to what they’re creating at the moment. So I think more non profit have got to get away from that thinking that somehow an educational degree in whatever is necessarily going to be something that makes the person more valuable to them,

[00:42:54.49] spk_2:
then the network life experience. Correct. Okay. Okay, um, the, uh the belief that, um, productivity or output is more important than, um the relationship building and how you’re making people feel in the organization and and outside the organization to know, producing paper reports and Versace the ah, the feelings toward the organization that you’re you’re engendering through your work.

[00:43:06.08] spk_4:
Yeah, I think that’s also another danger. Where there’s in the thinking of professionalizing the sector, we’re all about metrics, right? We need to get metrics that we have to get back to our funders to show that we’re creating value. So all of a sudden the employees are incentivized to create better metrics on that may be at the expense of developing longer term relationships. I will actually move the mission forward Maur in the long run than it will in the short run. So we get caught up in the whole same problem that Fortune five hundred’s get caught up in satisfying shareholder spirit. Immediate short term returns, not thinking aboutthe long game. So I think that that is an issue

[00:43:40.56] spk_2:
being too short term thinking for the next board meeting what what our numbers look like for this quarter versus long term value.

[00:43:46.95] spk_4:
Right? Long term value. Also, employee retention being part of that long term value and the value that that having employees stay with you and doing their work, feeling that that sense of pride in what they’re doing, an accomplishment could be so much more valuable than serving an extra 5% meals. In Week three,

[00:44:24.77] spk_2:
we just replayed Adrian, sergeant on relationship fundraising for just last week for a valve on the Valentine’s Day show February 14th and he talked a lot. Now this is just devote to fundraising and where you and I are talking broader. But as it relates to fund raising too many organizations ignoring the lifetime value of a donor, how do you make your donors feel over the long term versus did you get? Did you get a 20% increase in their annual gift this year?

[00:44:36.39] spk_4:
Yeah, and so what do you mean organizational level? And what are you telling your employees? If you say no, you should try to get as much as he can. Now, don’t worry about the long term value of the donor relationships that don’t spend extra time with them. You can hit more people. That’s the wrong message.

[00:44:50.56] spk_2:
Get the car last break. Ever wonder why some nonprofits are always mentioned in the news? It’s because they work to build

[00:45:02.52] spk_1:
relationship. We’re talking about relationships again. I mean, it’s it’s pervasive relationships, Just like last week again, they worked to build relationships with journalists who mattered

[00:45:21.29] spk_2:
to them so that when you pick up when you make a call or you send an email, the journalist replies, That’s because of a relationship. A preexisting relationship. Turn two can help you do that. Their former journalists, including at the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They will help you build meaningful media relationships that can lead to great coverage there. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. We’ve got

[00:45:29.38] spk_1:
butt loads more

[00:45:29.86] spk_2:
time for equitable compensation with Jean Takagi in the

[00:45:36.93] spk_1:
studio. Um, where do you want

[00:45:37.58] spk_2:
to go from here? Uh,

[00:45:44.76] spk_1:
any any other cultural assumptions that annoy the hell out of you? Well,

[00:47:18.32] spk_4:
I I think generally speaking, we think we may be as employers giving people benefits when we say, Hey, we’re gonna give you a plus, you know, added match matching contribution to your +401 K plan, for example. But we may not take into account. A lot of our employees have their own financial issues and may not be able to contribute to +41 K plans, so they don’t get that benefit of all of the match, right? So again, equitable considerations would say, Well, maybe we should open up this benefit so that everybody can access to it has access to it. So maybe it gets put into a flexible spending accounts so they can take care of their elder parents, and not just to their 401 K. Or maybe we give them the cash so they couldn’t pay off a student loan. So things like benefits have a place in this. The other cultural assumptions. To make it, we have to figure out more. And I think maybe the biggest issue for the pay gap on the gender basis, maybe letting people figure out where and when they can work and don’t live on to the assumptions that you have to provide face time. It has to be in the office always because so many people who are the primary child givers who are in the workforce that’s where the pay gap gets hit really, really hard. And that’s where women, who once they once they have child Children and decide that they’re going to be the primary caregiver, which is most of the time relative to the man. You know, that’s That’s where they never recover

[00:47:28.33] spk_2:
their career. Yeah, it’s a downward trajectory for their career. For what, 18 years or something? Conceivably. Okay,

[00:47:28.90] spk_1:
another thes. They’re all

[00:47:30.66] spk_2:
good issues for a conversation in the

[00:47:32.72] spk_1:
office conversation with board. Another one is

[00:47:37.57] spk_2:
the the how percentage increases in in salary perpetuate the gap because you’re giving everybody a percentage of the high or low that they’ve

[00:47:48.78] spk_1:
already got. You’re not. You’re not. You’re not, uh, quill a breaking that a word equalizing, not equalizing. You’re just continuing

[00:47:56.74] spk_2:
the the disparity through percentage, you know, annual percentage increases.

[00:48:30.73] spk_4:
Yeah, and I think a payout. It is probably something that every organization should do and actually just ask themselves. How did we determine what the pay rates are for each of these positions? Ah, and is it equitable? Not just top to bottom, but across, you know. Are we paying one person for the same position so much more than another position, another person, even though the other person might actually be doing better work just because they had more of an educational background. So all of those things need to be looked at? Questioned, I think, tracked. So you’re if you’re gonna make these decisions in the future that are more equitable, you have to be able to explain what factors you’re looking at in order to change somebody’s compensation. And why that and how that’s applied is it applied evenly and doesn’t explain why there’s a disparity now in pay between two different people or three different people who occupy the same position.

[00:48:56.37] spk_2:
Um, you can create in your organization a pay equity team.

[00:49:04.22] spk_4:
Yeah, that’s yeah, I’m on the board of an organization called Compass Point in San Francisco.

[00:49:07.61] spk_2:
In a point to that article shortly

[00:49:54.01] spk_4:
Terrific and, yeah, having an removing the decision making from just one executive director, but who might set the caps just to make sure that there’s no overcompensation involved in that the budget is being complied with. But having an equity panel within the organization made up of peers, um, looking at self evaluations and trying to determine what the compensation rates should be within again. A permitted range. Think that’s a really great form of distributed leadership where you’re giving more power to your team, um, and letting them decide what the compensation rates can be now. There were definitely some cons to that issue as well. With more responsibility, there’s gonna be more criticism. But we found out that that it can work really, really well. And people sometimes are actually more conservative about what they want to give than the executive director. And then just having a conversation about that, um, can can be very helpful. But it’s ah, it’s a really interesting a strategy to employ for some nonprofits who have reached that level of, ah, evolution, if you will, in inequity considerations.

[00:50:24.40] spk_2:
Compass point, um, walks through. I think it’s the interim executive director wrote The Post’s Walks through there. I guess it was a three year process. Was it a three year process there of evaluating and adjusting pay throughout the organization, I think, was a two or three year process. It’s

[00:51:15.93] spk_4:
actually been ongoing since 2016 which is really when it started, and it’s still it’s still an ongoing and sometimes a painful process of making things more equitable as you raised the issues and surface them there. You know there’s some pains. You find out some inequities of the past and you try to correct them. And some people are happy about that. Some people aren’t on and you know, the intersectionality of different ah issues if you well, it’s not just gender. It’s not just ages, not just race. There’s so many issues to think about in determining whether compensation is unfair or fair. Andi can be interpreted in different ways, so it is a challenge. But having a team there to help decide this instead of one person makes

[00:52:26.44] spk_2:
a huge difference, also empowering as well. And you know it defeats this myth that we can’t talk about pay at work because everybody’s pay is now known to the to the, uh, to the Pay Equity committee, the team that you’ve just created. So we are talking about it. I want to point people to the this article. It’s it’s actually two different block posts at Compass Point dot or GE on their blogged. It’s called reimagining compensation. It’s time to stop building inequities in the past from the past port. Wanting to Andre is very open about the difficulties that they went through and some people got very large increases. And she alludes to even there, being some decreases over time in salary like stage decreases, Thio make things fair and equitable. It’s quite a process we talked about. Yeah, and I

[00:52:49.76] spk_4:
think you know that’s a team decision. People have to look at this from a state law perspective as well. And so you have to be careful. Not Thio, through mandatory action, decreased one person’s salary to raise another. You have to be careful about that. So we had the luxury of having some change capital because the foundation was really supportive of what we did. And so here’s a big shout out to foundations for for unrestricted support, it really can do great things for for creating equity within an organization.

[00:53:03.75] spk_1:
Um, let’s talk some

[00:53:04.64] spk_2:
about, uh, well, the board. The board has a role here, too.

[00:53:22.97] spk_4:
Yeah, I think I’m still even when we talk about distributed leadership, which I mentioned before, the board still sets the tone at the top. Um, and I think it’s really incumbent upon the board to actually set the values of the organization. So it makes sense that not only are organizations acting to further the mission, but they’ve got to do it in a way that furthers their values as well.

[00:53:38.25] spk_2:
A cz part of their oversight on

[00:53:43.34] spk_1:
and really they’re there. Yeah, their responsibility to

[00:53:44.69] spk_2:
the organization. I’m taking it out of the fiduciary capacity and just making it, Ah, moral obligation that they have to the organization.

[00:54:09.96] spk_4:
Yeah. It’s not just about looking at the financials and saying, Can we survive another year? It’s It’s about creating the relationships, as you said, to make this the sustainable organization that lives its values and furthers its mission for a number of years so it can really actually drive through what they’re trying to do.

[00:54:11.29] spk_2:
Okay, we have about another minute or so before we gotta wrap. So, what would you like to whatever not talked about that? You want to say what?

[00:54:20.07] spk_4:
Um well, they’re a couple things, so I’m gonna leave the parking tax issue aside, then.

[00:54:26.26] spk_1:
Oh, I forgot. The host is so lackluster. This show it’s unbelievable. I don’t know why people listen. The hostess so crummy. Um, yeah, the all right next time we’ll get that next time. This is just about him. Report. God the hostess

[00:55:26.85] spk_4:
So crummy. Um, so I guess along the lines here some tips, maybe of creating more of an equity based compensation system within an organization. And I think, first audit, audit the organization. Try to figure out why you’re paying a tw what level? I have a board level awareness of what’s going on. I’m create a pay equity panel numb within your staff levels. Um, and take a look at where the disparities happen. Most often are the book benefits that I told you about, like the 401 K, but also in bonuses on dhe. We find that our studies have found that that bonus is often goto white men at the much different level than persons of color, especially women who are persons of color.

[00:55:34.29] spk_2:
All right, Thank you, Jean. Thank you very much. Opening up this topics. He’s managing attorney of neo, the non profit exempt organizations Law group. You’ll find him at G Tack and today you’ll find him in the studio in New York City. So glad to have your gene. What a pleasure.

[00:55:44.66] spk_4:
Thanks so much tony and great

[00:55:50.82] spk_1:
to see you, Sam. Yes. Next week. Get to the next

[00:55:52.47] spk_2:
level with Sherry Kwame Taylor. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com

[00:57:01.32] spk_1:
were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Coca Math and Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Ah, creative producers Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein Do with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

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Duitz ah, hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s our four hundred show. You recognize it from that live music it’s our quarter centenary show. Eighth anniversary we have to listeners of the week charlie mcelveen he e mailed me. I’m a longtime listener and enough for-profit consultant i refer folks to your podcast frequently and quote oh, charlie, i like that very much. Thank you and daniel maori she tweeted, check out twenty martignetti for the roll up your sleeves work of keeping non-profits going. His four hundredth podcast is tomorrow. Danielle, thank you very much. I read that i got goose bumps. Charlie and danielle, thank you so much for supporting non-profit radio. Congratulations on being our four hundredth show. Listeners of the week. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of octa phobia if you told me you missed today’s show our eighth anniversary, we’ve got claire meyerhoff, our creative director and president of the plan giving agency the pg agency she’s here to co host. And we got scott stein, composer of our theme song he’s, back with his mobile eighty eight and live music. We’ve got giveaways for anna from our anniversary show sponsor that’s cura coffee, year after year. Very loyal cura and lots of calls coming got listener stories of how you got into non-profit work thank you so much for all the stories you’ll be. I’ll be reading them. They’ll all be part of our eighth anniversary show. It’s tons of fun fur non-profit medios four hundred show, eighth anniversary tony stayed too. It’ll be live listen love podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant by regular cps, guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tellers let me welcome claire meyerhoff. Hi, great to see you. Great to see you two. So nice to be in our new studio owner in new york city, it’s only the second show, second window in the new studio, lovett high ceilings, more light, nice and bright. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having making trip. Let’s. Say a little scotty stein. Scott stein. Hey, hey. Hello. Hey, dahna composer of our theme song, uh, chief red wine, but she’ll be performing as well as another song for us. Yes, i well, something off the most recent album, yes is well, alright. Cool. Yeah. Hyre having me it’s always a pleasure, scott. Absolutely. Absolutely. You’re part of the show. Um, clamor half what say you what’s going on with you in the pg agency? Well, all kinds of things helping non-profits big and small with their planned e-giving marketing efforts. Aren’t you an altruistic person? Yes. And i’m going to be an ignite a speaker at the charitable plane. Give unconference in october in vegas and thie ignite speakers are are some select speakers who get five minutes and twenty slides and it’s a really strict format. So you can’t go over five minutes and you take over twenty slides. So you’re putting the place on fire. I’m gonna put on fire and there’s this one where the slides go in a rapid like everything. I think so. Yes, exactly. You when you’re ready or not. The slide right answer, right. So i’m doing in five minutes and twenty slides. I’m doing twenty do’s and don’ts for creating donor-centric marketing efforts don’t profiles for your play e-giving marking do’s and don’ts so, like i do start way ahead of time don’t leave it to the last minute to get the donor that you want to feature because some people think, oh, i have this donor, they’ll do it and i can do it in a week. No, you should start six months ahead of time, okay, tow line up your daughter so and if you want to get the other nineteen or the other nineteen didn’t know he was claire in las vegas and you think it’s too terrible give planning conference. No, i’m not, but i know it’s cg ap terrible gift you know that’s that’s tell gift annuities the transfer conference for still dropping planning weight. I took a picture of it. I haven’t. Um i have my keep talking about to tell you what it is in a second. All right? Because i took a screenshot earlier so that i know exactly what it is. And it is the c g p conference. National association of charitable gift planners, which is the awesome, fabulous organisation. And together we’ll get school. October seventeen to nineteen. Let’s. See, we got anybody on the phone? No. Okay. Well, then, uh, scottie, you don’t know what’s going on with scott stein? Uh, well, i’m staying busy and just, you know, living the life of a professional musician here in new york. It’s my eleventh year here in new york. Right now, i’m doing. I’ve got a couple projects going. I just took over as the music director for a show that is running off broadway called wicked frozen it’s it’s kind of what it sounds like it is a mash up of the two blockbusters, and it makes fun of them. It’s very, very funny. It runs sunday nights through labor day at st lukes theater on west forty sixth street. And i have a monthly songwriter siri’s now in brooklyn, which is happening this thursday at bar chord out. Did ms park s o this thursday at nine p? M okay, i should be a lot of funds. Grayce, right? Yeah, we’ll chat again. We got we got telethon klain on the phone. Tell us shake on you with us. Hey, hey, hey, i’m here. I know you are, tony. Hello, she’s. The vice president of marketing. At pursuing on dh pursuing has little sponsorship announcement don’t you? For us, we dio we have got our latest pursuing e-giving outlook ready for your eyes and your ears? No. Even before that, i meant that you were going to renew your sponsorship of non-profit radio. Yes, you are. You’re welcome. Hey, thank you. We won’t partnering with you and we are really honored to to do so. We are all working for the good of small and midsize non-profits big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re all working on it. Ok, so tell me about the thiss pursuing e-giving outlook. Yeah, yeah, i jumped the gun. I gave away the goodies. Uh, front e-giving outlook is a report that we deal with. This is our third year in a row did to do this where we really take a bunch of the major industry trends in our sector. We look at the giving us a report. We look at target analytics donor-centric index. We look at the end, men are online sexual support, and we kind of digest those into one white paper that we put together with our insight from various fundraisers and marketers. Here on the scene. Cool. So it’s a it’s a roundup that’s around up there, claire. So, yeah. So, taylor, what would you say is the most surprising thing that you that you learned is you put together the white paper? I mean, it’s interesting to see, just like the magnitude of giving, you know, and it’s a four hundred ten billion dollar industry. I think that that’s just astounding. Um, one thing i think is an interesting thing to call out izz the growth in individual e-giving continues sort of surpassed growth and other areas when looking at e-giving by foundations, corporations uh, requesting like that all of it is growing, but individual were only makes up seventy percent of the land of the living landscape. And, um, i think that’s interesting to know that that’s the one that still continues to grow with the fastest pace. I also would say that the trends and online and mobile e-giving we’re starting to see that you know, traffic here once fifty percent of coming from mobile and hard about what you need to be thinking about global should have been yeah, you should have been for years now, so in addition to the paper, there’s, also a webinar that people could watch right, even though webinars passed, they can get the archive on the landing page, right? Yeah, okay, and that is that page for you to get the pursuing e-giving outlook, the paper, and also to watch the webinar is tony dahna slash pursuing capital, p capital p, for pursuing and please. Okay, taylor, i want to thank you very much. Hey, thank you, thank you. Having me on. Thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you again for your support of non-profit radio. Love you. Yeah, of course. All right, speculator. Okay, um, i brought a little history along. Claire. Come my love for you. Yes, history i love brought the you helped me devise these show sheets, which i’ve, you know, tweets a little bit over the years. But you gave me the basic format years ago, eight years ago, to be exact labbate started twenty ten started this gig and that’s a lot of things. And your first show, it was july twenty third, two thousand ten, and that was that was shown over two. You were only a second. Showed you on the second show you believe? That’s great. I’m not upset that you weren’t on showed over one. Well, i i think i helped you sort of get show number one together, and so i feel definitely a part of show number one, and i’m honored to be i think we are number two. You are. You wouldn’t come on number one because that because show number one was called tony martignetti show. Yeah, we never called it that thing i made you change told me that name sucks. Yeah, well, i need you need to have non-profit people are googling like non-profits. Yeah. Tony martignetti non-profit radio show that’s it twenty martignetti probably reinardy morphed eight years later. So you were willing to come on with the title improved show number two s. So what do we talked? We talked about oh, storytelling in jargon zoho jargon. And we came up with a guard in jail. So i have to admit george in jail is claire miree dafs construct? Yes, jargon. Jail sametz somewhere to seo non-profit order, right? Like we need to raise money to build capacity. So we conserve more you? Yes, i was passing building in way. Want to help more young people? Yes, young people not use right. Alright. So jargon jail was your oh yeah. And so so since july twenty third, two thousand ten it’s amazing is your first show sheet right there. That’s eight years ago it was donald trump was not president, right? No wass obama obama was two thousand ten force obama. Alright, way. Don’t do politics. I’m not properly. Please, uh, unless i say so. All right. So, um, one of the xero we have a bunch of listener stories. Why don’t you? Don’t you read our first story on dh then that’s who? It’s by okay, there you go and, you know, we’re joyce is from i don’t know, okay, so so tony and i, when we were trying to think of what a good topic would be for this four hundred show, we came up with the idea that let’s find out why people started working and non-profits people don’t go to college and major non-profit so don’t lend up in non-profits way collected stories from our listeners and others about why people working non-profits so here is a story by joyce heavy, and she says the seed was planted in the nineteen seventies when i was in my twenties. I’m sixty nine now. I was in mogadishu, somalia, living on the upper floor of a hotel. It was evening almost dark, and i looked down into a dusty alley. I saw a young man walking and carrying a large caught almost a twin size bed on his head later in the lobby, i mentioned it to a friend, and she said, don’t you know, he was looking for a place to put his bed down for the night that planted a seed in my heart to seek opportunities to work, to help others. Have a better lives? I did my first americorps year with volunteer maryland in two thousand five at the age of fifty plus at partners and care of maryland, and they hired me as a grant writer. Now i have moved on till langton green and annapolis. I’m in annapolis all the time. They provide homes and support two adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities. It is truly a privileged to write grand proposals every day for support for this wonderful organization. And then joyce goes on to say thank you you for the good work you trust well, thank you, joy you, joyce. Thank you. Coffee sometime in annapolis? Yeah, i love annapolis. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing your story, joyce. Two of our stories today, we’re going to win prizes from cure coffee. Teachers are show are always our anniversary show sponsored, always grateful toe cure a coffee. And you know, when i introduced you, i neglected to say the pg agency dot com and claire says claire says seeley i r e z fancy cc you find around a pg agency, dot com or the land giving agency llc but pg agency dot com is our website no, the just pg agency websites just peachy jutze okay, thank you. We got a little more time. According to my little schedule here. So why don’t we read another story? I was that’s what i was going to say. How about i do want you read one, please. This is, uh, kate cover line. She put it on the website. It was the employee culture that first got me involved with non-profit work non-profit office atmosphere is typically one of collaboration, creativity and scrappiness. Read adaptability here, a junior achievement of greater washington. We’re a close knit bunch, often working on many large projects across multiple departments development, education and operations as a young professional wanting to learn as much as i possibly could. The non-profit environment was a perfect match for me. I find myself wearing multiple hats on a daily basis, and i wouldn’t have it any other way. Awesome. Thank you. Keep cover line. And she’s in d c she was in dc. We got dc. We got annapolis. Thanks, kate. Great story. Thank you. Starting to see a theme of help, you know, helping others. Not surprising. Right? All right. And doing. Something for the common good, not just two. You know, the world is bigger than making profits for a big corporation than all of us. Yeah. Scott. Scott stein, yes, i should like a little music. All right, so your your music directing this show, first of all, i am not you okay. Any any recording coming up is that? Is that a bad? Is that a tough question? Asked a nen dependent position. No, it’s, a totally fair question. I’m just a little bit of a lull in terms of recording right now, so i’m just spending my time. I’m working on all right development timed other projects, including this, this off broadway show, i conduct four different chorus is here in new york city on de so those air that’s taken a lot of my effort right now, but i’m still playing, and i’m still writing, and hopefully, soon hopefully getting back in the studio. Ilsen okay, okay, awesome. Cheap red wine. That is our theme song. So i brought along the timeline. This claire’s clothes timelines are ubiquitous for this show. Chief red wine first debuted on non-profit radio on september sixth. Twenty thirteen. It was we were into scott and i were introduced by a mutual friend. A lawyer friend? Yeah, yeah. My friend josh becker. Yeah, she was my roommate. Okay, where was he? Where? Here. On the upper west side. Okay. Josh becker introduced us. I loved cheap red wine. I told scottie what i was looking for. He suggested this song. I listened to it and it was magic. And so, september six. Twenty thirteen i was the first time he was on that. That cheap red wine was played. And it’s been our theme song. Everything. So what did you have for music? Before that we stole something from beauty and the neo-sage treyz. I tried to find josh becker. The crack attorney tried to find who license who owns it. The light from its very hard. A lot of songs are like nobody will know it’s not us, it’s, not us. It was an old song free fried green tomatoes way could not find i did, we did. Dilgence i hired attorney, try to find the right find who that license it from. We could not, so we just kept stealing, and then the first time scott was on the show was our two hundredth show, which was july eighteenth, twenty fourteen. First time you were on with two hundred remember. Well, it’s got a plea. Would you please play this song that i love? I love this. I love this, thank you damn song. Alright, red wine is not going well with that kind introduction. Baby, just keep him talking. Sooner or later, i think around. Just so watch me. You see romantic advice from a bill. But i’m looking for answers on a tv screen. Wait till our ups from my down, just a bit game. And this love that we found. You know, you used to find charming, but it can be here on how you see. It was handsome, but doesn’t matter now. So give for land for my eyes along your time, allow because i’ve got her any promises, but i’ll let you read on. And now, no way living diamonds, and they won’t come back. In-kind clothe good stuff, and you’re too easily distracted to care. Wait, i got to minute options, so i’m gonna do the best that i can. You have some competition day when i’m wealthy, man. You know, you used to find it charming that i can’t figure out how you see your photos, hands, but it doesn’t now, so get for a long time, because i’ve got a big promises, but she brit who i am now wearing glasses, take your dream labbate days, the people can kiss my little black things. We see way, because the heavens no fast, all victory signs, is perfect for you. No! Nobody is way. Hyre hyre yeah, you know, used to famine, charming, but i can’t figure out how you’re saying your boat was handsome. Never mind it. Don’t matter now, it’s. Okay for a long time, allow gotta remmy krauz osili buy-in hyre. What? Neo-sage hyre cheap red wine. Scott stein. Thanks. Very absolutely. He’s you’ll find him in scott’s, time music, dot com and also at scott stein music and he’s gonna play the song they don’t show me another. Another one coming from scotty. What? We got something on the phone again. You don’t do you there. How are you? Hello, you. How are you? Good. Good. Very good. I’m calling today’s a thank you for your dedication to educating non-profit i think it’s really impressive to keep this going for eight years. I’m not keeping any burial show doesn’t show that face a little dedication. I know you were really hired. Thank you. Happy. Thank you. Thank you. I thank you very much. Really. Uh, for genuine. Thank you. I thank you because you’re a partner at weather cps. And when you see piela is one of our sponsors. So i’m grateful to you and wagner that you’re helping us keep this show going for the benefit of small and midsize non-profit so thank you very much. You guys are really happy to support your wonderful show. I think like our passion ofthe non-profits matches your passion so he really feel that they’re really good. And geever with connor’s off non-profits that are equal in the other ninety five percent dilgence in twenty different states. So and they really all that hate, all the education they get. So thank you. All right. And you’ve been a guest, and we’ll have you back when there are accounting topics to discuss in the meantime. Okay? Absolutely. Yes, but again. So thank you. And thanks for calling me and thanks. Really? Thanks for your kind words. Thank you so much. Thank you. You duitz tune there at wagner cpas. Dot com. We got time for some stories. We got jean online alert that’s so let’s. Jump to jean jump. Jean jean takagi latto keep this going. Jean takagi, how are you? Hey, and in great tony. Congratulations on four hundred. Oh, my god. Thank you, jean. Thank you for being our such a regular contributor. Legal are legal contributor. This is jean takagi principle of non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco and it’s. The wildly popular non-profit law blogged dot com which you need to subscribe to he’s at g tak and jean i brought along your very first your very first appearance. I brought the show sheet for your very first appearance on non-profit radio. That was show number seven. That was august twenty seventh, two thousand ten that’s. Awesome. And we talked about governance. I think right board security or something? Yes, techniques to keep your board on, i might might voice just crackling on a fourteen year old techniques technics to keep your board on board and out of trouble. That was our first topic together. Yeah. That’s. Awesome. Eight, eight years kind. Alright, i recall that you met emily and i done here. We had a drink. That’s, right? That was when emily chan was with you, but so that you know, you’re our longest running contributor, jean. I’m so grateful to you. Thank you so much. Every month you’re thinking of topics developing them coming on the show and and sharing your expertise. Your wisdom. Thank you so much for that. Well, thank you, tiny. Now let go ye and say thank you for for helping that the other ninety five percent of non-profits that oftentimes get overlooked on educational shows. Another thing so thank you. Absolutely that’s our that’s, our core, the other ninety five percent of smaller. Midsize. So all right, jean, i want to thank you so much for calling. Thanks for being a part of our four hundred show and the show on the show month after month. Thank you. Congrats, honey. Thank you, jean. Um, so, let’s read some stories again now. Okay? Let’s. See what you got? Maybe a little background music for like, that was a short one from from daniela’s maori. Danielle mauer. Now, she was one of our listeners that we have a week this week. Yes, i think i know her. Hi, daniel. So danielle says i’ve always enjoyed working with non-profits from as a penn state student government to helping start new york cares day to working for international dyslexia association to amazing brooklyn book festival. You always feel better when supporting a non-profit volunteer staff donorsearch just do it. Just do it. Thanks, danielle. Just do it. Just work with non-profits help people. I’ve heard that somewhere before. Just gets to do something for me and tell me that that’s daniel’s? Yes. Okay, it’s. Not even a nike stolen from daniel. I know that. Some of what little i know about sports. I have t shirts and gave me it’s, a guy swinging a baseball bat, says touchdown, that’s, hard that’s, my sports, that’s, my sports repertoire. So i’m not even gonna ask you, mr yankees nick’s, because you’re in new york, this like may, when the knicks and the bucks on the hawk see you’re from new jersey, so you’re probably like a yankees fan. Your parents rocks the hawks, the jets, they all get together for the next hour past of those for the super series. What year? Tony what’s. Here we have a super siri’s, super serious. All right, i got one, i got one. This ah, karen graham she’s, the executive director of idealware she’s, been a guest. Idealware is a very good, very good non-profit helps organization’s used technology and mates, rates all kinds of different software. That’s, great before non-profits they should be on the show. Yes, it really is. Karen graham summer before i graduated college, i worked at a summer camp run by united cerebral palsy that was my first non-profit job camp sandy wheels, everyone helped out with the chores according to their abilities. One of the campers was a preteen boy who had limited control over his arm muscles, resulting in some erotic spastic movements. So maybe you can imagine what happened when it was his turn to help wash the dishes after dinner. I don’t think he’d ever washed dishes before he was having the time of his life, splashing soap and water all over the room and grinning from ear to year, delighted to be doing his part. That was heartwarming, but that’s not why i got into non-profit work what inspired me to a career in non-profits was his parents a t end of the week, they told me how grateful they were that he got to have this experience while they enjoyed a week of respite, hearing that help me to understand how our work at the camp was making a difference for families all year round. She’s no longer on the front in the front lines of helping people but she’s still got to be a part of the profession that is itself enriching people’s lives. Big, big support idealware can ground that’s great. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. All right, i’ve got a story it’s from diana in virginia. So diana says that after working a variety of jobs from commercial fishing worked up in alaska and like a salmon place to investment banking and private jet sails, she worked in a private jet sails. She said she wanted to be part of something that contributed to more than simply enriching already wealthy members of society, so she wanted to do something better. So she took the first non-profit job that caught her eye answering phones at an in house member call center for national wildlife group. Once she got her foot in the door, her previous experience and skills helped her naturally progress to development work by chatting with donors and fielding tough questions from their diverse constituency. She really learned what motivates different types of donors to give and participate or not, and why? So? She says, though her job responsibilities ended up including large direct mail campaigns in mass marketing, everything she learned from working with donors on that front line, answering those phone calls confirmed what she already knew. No amount of aggregated data can substitute for personal interaction with the donor. A quick, friendly thank you call can establish your strength of a relationship is easily as a crappy postcard can end one. So picking up the phone, chatting with a donor, you’ll learn so much more about why they give and why other donors like that give them just like senate. Crappy direct mail was buy-in dahna thank you, doctor. Thank you. All right, we need to take a break. Weinger cps, it’s personal now huge to you just heard him talk. That was him. You could talk to him yourself. Find out how the firm can help you with your accountant. He’s a partner. He knows all the stuff. He knows. All this accounting stuff non-profits in and out. You heard him say twenty, twenty states. They’re representing hundreds of non-profits twenty states. Check out the firm at regular cps dot com. Then you pick up the phone and talk to him. It’s easy. No pressure. You know the guy now? Pregnancy piela dot com now, time for take two. It’s alive listen right piela l l p p a i got to do the live listen love well p p a l i double r empty, eh? It’s going out live listen loves going out. Tio rockford, illinois. Portland, oregon. I love portland, new york, new york. Multiple, always multiple new york, new york lovett. A story in new york that my parents are from a story. Yeah, they grew up in a story. My love’s down to ah story as well as manhattan, tampa, florida edison, new jersey. Lovett, um open california adah latto california. Welcome, atalanta sounds like rapido latto latto ilsen loved all those. We got to go abroad. How about, uh oh, eight million nixon missouri. Sam spelled missouri. Mos es that’s what i thought was mexico. No. Nixon, nixon, nixon, missouri. Like live love out to you, germany. We can’t see your town, but i know to say guten tag germany’s with us and one john ville john ville, brazil open it! God! Oh, my god! Oh, to brazil, large of portuguese. Thank you. On the heels of the live listen, world has become the podcast pleasantries because we got a tank that’s the bulk of the audience that’s the thirteen thousand people listening podcast pleasantry so pleasantries out to you. Thank you so much for being a part of our four hundred show for sending stories. Thank you for supporting the show. What can i say? Pleasant trees to the podcast listeners and the affiliate affections go out to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. It’s got to have a little background just for the am and fm affiliate as i send affiliate affections. Here’s a little music because i don’t want over them to get lost because i had them. I thank them last. I don’t want them to feel it’s, you know losers last or something like that. Actually, they’re they’re like radio. That was first terrestrial regular. Exactly radio this is the video from the twenties, twenties teamviewer. That means my own age. Nineteen teens i work in radio in the stone age you were a technology that long island g b b the pulse of long island. And you were in a washington station too. I was the wto’s news radio fifteen hundred. So the am and fm was going nowhere on what happened with digital media. Minister. Mazarene next-gen radio. So the right kayman perfections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Thank you to your stations for so much for hosting non-profit radio. I’m gonna read you more stories. Yes. Your ship back-up music, scott. I’m really grateful. Thank you. It’s. Got in a frame. It’s got there? Yes, there. His head. Okay, we’re on facebook live. I ended with non-profits very organically because the needs of our special needs son were so great. I didn’t rejoin the workforce after his birth. Yet being a little gregarious, i found opportunities to volunteer and sat on two boards of directors as well as volunteering with girl scouts. One of the board president said to us, we’ve had a shortfall, so we’re asking everyone to raise one hundred dollars. That was twenty years ago. So one hundred dollars. Twenty years ago, i decided to email ten friends latto asked for ten dollars each. I had four responses totaling two hundred forty dollars. I knew then that this could be fun. The rest of this say, is history that’s? Interesting? I love they. So they emailed ten friends and asked ten french for how much apiece white-collar so that’s a hundred which really was looking for donors gave and two forty? Yes, exactly. On average of sixty bucks each write some for. Yeah. So i’m gonna know that’s that’s from tricia magic baker treyz imagine baker, i’m nominated for prize. You’re pounding your plastic that’s pretty good. Would you care? Uh, claire, would you mind reading for for patricia? Exactly. Whatthe cura mission is mission is in blue there for us. We have such a pretty voice. Thank you, tony. Cure a coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee dance with every cup of cure, you join our effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. Way ara direct trade coffee company with direct impact brought directly to you creating organic smiles beyond the cup. Cura coffee dot com cura coffee dot com don’t you talk? Pretty that’s. Beautiful coffee, dot com that’s beautiful. And you know the ceo of your coffee is a dentist. That’s? Why? They do throw in dental care dental care for their for their independent being farmers yeah, i love that cause that’s near and dear to his heart and that’s a you know, authentic. You know charity for him to set up that’s. That’s that’s him he’s, the coffee guy. All right, so just, um, matty magic baker. You’re gonna get a prize. You’re going to get a pound of cure. It will be sent to you. Just get your address later on. Let’s. See where? Uh, where we are now. Amy, we got any simple ward on the phone. Yes, it is an amy and amy. Amy, several ward. How are you? I’m doing great. Other than spending a couple seconds reflecting on the fact that it’s the four hundred show and i was on on the one hundred show and calculating how many years that went by other than that, i’m doing great. Okay, well, you are doing great. You’ve been great for six years. That’s out. That’s the calculation you came up with, of course. There’s. Any sample ward? Our social media contributor. Ceo of entender non-profit technology network at inten dot organ. Of course, amy, is that amy r s ward? The artist for rene? Any simple word. So? So i have your first show sheet here. You were on? Yeah, you were on the first time you were on. Was indeed the one hundred show. Exactly. That was july thirteenth. Twenty twelve. And where had you on for the full hour? It was an all social man show that show. Yes. One hundred show jamie sample. And i’m so grateful. Amy, you know, we have such good conversations. You spend so much time, you know, curating topics for the show, we talk about it in advance, and then you come on and, you know, like, wherever you are, you’re so giving, you know you’ve called from hallways you’ve called from home when little lauren lewis was sick. You’ve called from home, you know, of course, the inten office. And i’m very, very grateful to you for all these six years of being r social media contributor. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you. It’s. Certainly been fun. I do, though, miss. Uh, you know, when i first started about one hundredth episode but the episodes after that when i was living in new york and we got to do the show in the studio together. That was fun. I i enjoy getting to call in from anywhere and make the same kind of show happen, but it was definitely fun getting to call in from the studio together. Yeah. Yeah, that was there was one. You you were running. You were out of breath. Remember that one? Yes, because i would it’s live. I don’t usually late, but if new york and you don’t get to control the subway. So i was feeling very, very late. That was okay. Yeah, we know you were on your way. We of course you could. You couldn’t call because you were in the subway. Actually, i knew you were on your way. And, you know, i kept everybody occupied. Oh, well, you stalled out there. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course. But so grateful. I mean, back then that when you started back then you were just you were the membership director of that. I i shouldn’t say just because there’s a membership director now, then ten. Of course, you were the membership director of inten and then, uh, quickly promoted to ceo. And thanks for being on non-profit radio high was fired-up ceo it’s a credential? It’s a credential? No question about it. Absolutely. So thank you for all these years, you know, thank you for having me on and six year i’m raising my pen. What i happen to have in my hand, here’s to many more years. Thank you. Okay. And we’ll see you with, uh, we’ll see you in portland. A toe non-profit technology conference. Twenty nineteen? Yes. Wait. All right. Thank you again. And simple. Ward. Thank you, everybody. Bye. Scott. Yes, but you do a second song for us, ok, tell us about it. Sure, i’m going to do a song from my most recent album, the records called traveling companion, and this song is called the goodbye road to baltimore, and if you check out the recording studio recording of it, you’ll actually hear my wife sing ing on it as well. She sings the back-up for so little fun. Fact. Okay, andi, the name again, it’s called the goodbye road to baltimore. He was supposed to be good bye to the road of baltimore, but i was really tired of the time, and i wrote it down wrong. And then i decided that was better than what i had in mind. So it stuck. So here we go. Wait, sunrise on ninety five, four thousand seven times on each day, wass the day that you’d come out on time, but the gas lads on and you got a stone on the good bye, rhoda ball. More driving south through the move. A lot of use turn shore. If the winds at back in law always be perfect in awhile and care sand free, no way riza come to blows me on signs. Making friends with white daughter lives takes a laura hero to make it this far. Sometimes you’re not sure which one you want on the good bye road ball, more driving south through them, a lot of the eastern shore, and if the winds at you back, it will always be perfect in a wild and careless and free. How do you know? Oh, your new with five is in more than the distance to the mirror. Life, you’ve been offgrid soul. Is it just tio hyre get back, all right, dahna son runs on ninety five, or whatever makes you feel alive, maybe tomorrow’s the day break through and, if not someone’s, waiting for you on the good bye road ball. More driving south through them, a lot of the eastern shore. But if the winds at you back a long way, wild and careless, perfect, wild and careless, perfect in a wild care, less and free way. Dahna absolutely perfect and wild and careless and perfect and wild and careless, careless and free at some point in that song i close my eyes and i thought, who does he sound like? Enough? James taylor that’s me altum they will happily take that. Thank you. Agree? Yeah. He’s. Amazing. He’s. Amazing. Schnoll yeah. That’s says my wife amy’s here. She also says billy joel oh, and there’s. Someone in the background, there’s a there’s, an intern there’s, a studio in turn up to the mike nobody, nobody is an anonymous on non-profit radio. Just tell us who you are. Studio in turn reminded. Remind me, please. Hi, my name’s, darryl. Hi, my name’s. Darryl beaker, can you see me up? There we go. Yes, your intern. Right. You have the studio. Thanks for being here. All right, no problem. Thanks for having me. Pleasure. You’re in the background there on facebook and we can’t have that, you know, just like who’s. That guy back there. Okay. I think we got some time for more stories. Okay, reasonscall little hasn’t touched fixing the facebook frame there. Okay, um, yeah, we got first. We’ll take a break, though. Actually. Tellers. I have a new company. Tell us moughniyah lll quote tell us, provided us with great customer service throughout the initial process and that same top notch service has been provided through our working relationship. Additionally, tell us was able to offer us the best pricing and to top it all donates fifty percent of the processing fees to the charity of our choice. There is no doubt that teller is one of the best companies to partner with the credit card processing and quote you, khun b that charity of choice that’s the whole point. Watch the video at tony dahna slash tony tell us now clear my ralph, we got time for some more stories. I’m going to read one. Okay, can i think i think they could jump. Okay. This is from let singleton she’s been she’s been a fan of the show for a long time. Then she she was on hiatus for a while. But national back then that singleton thanks to the Job training partnership act of 19 eighty two summer after i turned sixteen, my very first job was administrative clerk at a crisis center as a disadvantage you, it was eye opening, life altering experience. Since then, i’ve spent my entire adult life protecting and supporting people’s dreams, volunteering and working to improve the lives of others. I’ve been fortunate to leverage that passion to build a well rounded career in non-profit and small business operations, and i now serve as the vice president of operations to support the partnership for southern equities mission to promote racial and economic equity in atlanta and the american south. And then she says, tony, congratulations on your eighth anniversary of four hundred show, thanks for all you do to strengthen the other ninety five percent. Well, thank you and thank you for sharing your story. Thanks for being so loyal to non-profit radio i’m glad you’re back got your back. Would you, uh would you be kind enough to read one clear my love to read one. Okay, there you go. This is from joanne telser. Freyre literacy chicago. I have lived and worked in france, egypt, pakistan and guitar where i learned many of the skills i need today, i started out simply teaching english and ended up becoming academic director in a french language school training sl teachers. I also spent nine years as a journalist on q b, s radio q tv television and for the newspaper, the peninsula and guitar, where i learned about how to communicate clearly and effectively so very important. Everything i’ve done in my professional life has led me to what i do today. Reading has always been a passion, and i’m thrilled to help other people enjoy the written word and that’s joanne from literacy chicago. Thank you so much for your lovely story. Thank you, joined she’s, a program manager, i believe literacy chicago. Yes, thanks, joanne, she emailed me. She mailed me that two days ago. Wei had, of course, we just add any sample ward on on ten ceo here’s, somebody who works for and ten she’s there, i think, finance, so she says it. Okay, patty carlin carlin from n ten. After working in mental health research, hearing the experiences of the participants compelled me to do something to help them. I became director of a peer support organization and it’s been non-profit ever since as the finance director for in ten, i’m living the non-profit dream, patty carlin, nice story, there’s. Uh, like if she was on, i would like to probe a little more hearing the experiences of the participants. You know what? What what was it about? What were they doing? What was she seeing that that compelled her would go a little. I’d like to probe battle it more, you know? I mean, this is a real story. This is fun, cholera there on here. I’m gonna nominate this one for a prize, would you? Would you read? You read this one from mildred devo, devo, founding director of pen parenthesis i have always been an artist first a singer than an actor than fiction writer, i started a reading siri’s to disprove the stereotype that people give up creative careers when they have kids. It was a smash we were booking authors a year in advance who wanted to read read for us to shatter the stereotype, people told us it changed their lives. A lawyer in new york city started attending the salons she heard of these writer lee stories and was moved. She offered to sponsor us to her firm to give us counsel probono to become a non-profit accepting her generosity was the first step to creating pen parenthesis. Five oh one c three devoted to helping writer stay on creative track after starting a family. We’re going on ten years that you know, that’s, a very specific mission, but really cool, she goes on to say, i’d say starting a non-profit was a win all around my work, encouraging other parents to maintain focus on their creative careers inspires me. To keep on creative track. That’s, mildew, devo. Founding director at penn parental. All right, mildred. You’re gonna get a pound of cure coffee sent to you. And she started her own non-profit i mean, that’s, that’s, that’s! Not that easy and regular non-profit yeah, yeah, and around writing. You admire that? Totally like communication arts short. Would you be good enough, teo? Read for us again? What? What? What? The mission of kira coffee is to remind mildred milled a building that she’s going to get well. Mildew. You want some coffee and it’s provided by kira coffee directly connecting coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. With every cup of cura, you join our effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. We are a direct trade company with direct impact brought directly to you, creating organic smiles beyond the cup. Cura coffee, dot com that’s cura coffee, dotcom. Thank you. Thank you. I love that cure. Coffee mission that’s. Awesome. That is also, um we, uh, hold that. One more story we got. We got maria simple on the phone. She’s? Uh, yes, maria simple. That she’s. Here. Yes. Hello, maria. Simple. How are you? I’m doing well. How are you, she’s? Our prospect research contributor, of course. Are the rounds out? Rounds out our our triumvirate of of contributors. She’s, the prospect finder. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and at the prospekt finder and maria, you, uh, write your show. She’d along first time you were on our twelfth show. Twelfth show. Here he goes. Our first one was your first one was october first, two thousand ten way had just started in july of two thousand ten. Thank you, maria non-technical. I’m thrilled that you asked me for for participation in that first show and and all the subsequent shows as well. Yes, i am too. I’m grateful to you. You know, you spend so much time thinking about topics emailing, you know, we go back and forth. Then you come on the show, you share your experience and wisdom in prospect research, you know, for the benefit of our listeners and small and midsize shops. And i’m very grateful to you. Very grateful all these years. Thank you so much. Oh, you’re very welcome. And congratulations to you and the entire team that, uh, has really, as one of your other listeners said, really participated. And every week, coming up with a terrific content for the other ninety five percent that’s what we’re about. Thank you. Now we just read milton devos. Story and milled is goingto win the coffee from cura coffee. She e mailed me something. Quote, any show with maria? Simple is a show worth listening to forever. How about that? How about that? That’s, a testimonial? Who put that on your web site, maria. Thank you. You know that building devo that’s? Amazing. Congratulations for that man. Awesome. She’s using to you. Well, all right, all right. So i know you’re gonna be on. You’re gonna be out in a couple weeks. Going pre recording next week, maria simple. But, you know, until then and after then one. Thank you so much for all your contributions to non-profit radio over. You know, eight years. Really remarkable. Thank you so much. Thank you. And a shout out to all of you in the studio today. Great show. Thanks, brandon. Thank you. Thanks, maria. We’ll talk soon. Okay. Um, here’s sam will let me know if anybody else. Way chat. Good job, chad, chad. Okay, i was chadband is on, and we have a major announcement to make a major announcement for the four hundred show. Like we have a new sponsor, and it is chadband boyd’s company. Chadband welcome to non-profit radio. Hey, thanks, tony. Glad to be here and, like everybody else, congrats on the four hundred show that a huge milestone provoc a podcast before and to do four hundred shows. We’ve got to leave that. Thank you, man. Thank you, and welcome to the non-profit radio family. You’re you’re ceo of text to give dot ceo and a new new sponsor going to starting next week. Sponsorship that’s, right, that’s, right, we’re started, yeah, glad. Glad to be a sponsor, because you’re you’re doing mobile, giving for small and midsize non-profits and, uh, that’s, our core that’s that’s, who we produce the show for week after week. So listeners going to hearing from you and from for me, you know, promoting onboarding text to give that ceo and for now, and this is going to be continuing if if you text npr that’s november, papa romeo in alphabet, in military talk, you talk hoexter npr tio four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Then you’re gonna get more info on text to give and there’s a special offer for listeners. Is that right, exactly right, you gotta correct, okay, all right, we’re doing so good, we’re doing good so far, okay, i got the got the first yet the first announcement done. The first announcement, correct, all right, chad. Oppcoll you want to say a little bit about text to give that ceo? Yeah, yeah. So, um, we are a mobile first donation platform, the text enabled. So, you know, you text them to make your donation, and our thing we’re trying to do is break down the barriers e-giving to make you know it really easy for donor to give to small and non-profits out there. So perfect for your target audience. Okay? And as i said, listeners will be hearing about it. Week after week will be, we’ll be shutting you out. And, uh, and again, chad, i thank you so much for sponsoring non-profit. Is there some, like triumphant music? Kottler is good. Yes, something triumphant for a brand new sponsor wave. That’s the fanfare. Thank you, scott. Now now, yeah, eleven. Thank you again. So much. Thanks for being thank you and welcome. Welcome to the show as glad to be here. Thanks, tony. All right, chance along. Wei have one more story i got get time for. Okay. It’s from jeff. Jody, lighthouse counsel. My parents set the example of being involved in the community. So this is the parents e-giving volunteering and leading in college, i was part of my first campaign raising funds to restore the historic home of a debate society. I began to volunteer at the colleges advancement office. I moved up while working in a major medical center. My boss volunteermatch volunteered me to be chair of ah, march of dimes chapter. So i went from being a very young board chair to becoming a very young ceo for most of georgia, either working in the arena on loving it ever since. Jeff jody from white house counsel neo-sage podcasting with beacon podcast. We gotta wrap it up. Okay. I want to thank. I want to thank scott stein. That scottie. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you for having me and getting congratulations on four hundred. My pleasure. Thank you. And you you fill the room with an energy playing. Really? They love it. Glad to do it. Claire miree off our creative producer. Thank you so much for tony was great to be here on the four hundred show. I can’t wait to be on the fourteen hundred forty. Thank you so much. Thank you. Twenty ninety eight. Oh, my god! What? And also thanks tio teles shanklin huge tomb chadband void jeanne takagi, amy sample ward marie a simple thank you all for being with us were supported by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven end technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing by legacy piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Weinger cps dot com bye tellers credit card payment processing to pass of revenue stream tony dahna slash tony tello’s on by text to give text npr for for for nine, nine, nine for info. If you missed any part of today’s show it’s your life, i watched it clear myer off sam lee woods is the line producer show social media’s by susan chavez thiss music is by scott stein on mark silverman is our web wiz a special shout out to mark silverman he’s working for me for ten years on, i’ve never shattered him out on the show with the closing credits. I don’t know why it’s terrible, i know alistair, you federally never i’m doing it now i’m doing it now! He’s our web is mark silverman, so remark dahna mom, you with me next week for non-profit medio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out on be great. Great. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving nothing. Good, you are listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor in center of attention. Tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c buy-in. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Fired-up comics, movies and pop culture at large. What about music and tv? Then you’re in for a treat. This is michael dulled, your host on talking alternative dot com. I’ve been professionally writing comic books, screenplays and music articles from fifteen years. Catch my show secrets of the sire at its new prime time slot. Wednesdays, eight p m eastern time, and get the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. For more info, go to secrets of the sire dot com. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s, the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity, thursday’s twelve, noon on talk radio. Dot latto. You’re listening to the talking alternative network.

Nonprofit Radio’s 400th Show

It’s coming up on July 27th! Live music, giveaways, all our contributors & sponsors—and you! Tell us how you got into nonprofit work & be part of our 400th show forever! The 2 best stories get read on air & win a bag of Cura Coffee. Share your story here or with #NonprofitRadio on Twitter.

Nonprofit Radio for February 10, 2017: News From Accounting & LinkedIn Latest

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to suffer the pain of sal pin jim fractious if i had to listen to you say that you missed today’s show news from accounting. There are revised accounting rules you need to know and you huge tomb walks us through. Don’t worry, we will keep it lively and interesting. Heat is a partner at wagner, cps and linked in latest lincoln got a facelift plus operational changes, especially in search what do all the updates mean for your prospecting? Maria simple knows she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder on tony’s take two end of the hair. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com my pleasure to welcome back, eat huge tomb. He is a partner at the wagner cpas. He works exclusively with tax exempt organizations and oversees the firm’s form nine ninety nationwide preparation practice and manages the new york city office eats niche is tax exempt, financial and compliance. Auditing the firm is that wagner, cpas, dot com and at wagner cps. Welcome back to studio. Thank you. Thank you for your pleasure. Now the firm is in madison, wisconsin. You’re managing the new york city office. So you spend a lot of time here in new york, are you? Ah. Are you trying to evade the law? No, you’re not. You’re not under surveillance or anything, or one step ahead of the law, you know? Yeah, i spent. I spent my time between new york and wisconsin. Okay, clear. But for all good reasons for all good, nothing to various are really okay. Like, okay, so okay, now you have after your name. Three designations, two of which i get sepa an mba. Cf is the third one. What is this? What is the c f d? Just assert fight fraud examiners. So be get into sometimes some fraud examinations. Ok, do some work around, like, litigation support? Are you involved in all withy the allegation of millions of fraudulent voters in our election of your involvement on those, you don’t have a quaint that okay, so c f e. I know cfcs chlorofluorocarbons, but that’s, not you. You know, you know, you’re not a guest. That’s not, you know, full gas. All right. Cf. So we have these changes that have come from faz be the financial accounting standards board. Right? All right. So before we get to changes, what is this fast? B what is this thing? The fast b is the governing body that basically sets the accounting standards. Ah, who are then can we name them where they exist? Who are they? Where are they? Well, there are real people. There are people. Okay? They have committees, and they have task forces, so they’re very involved and very, really so ok. Are they are they? Where do they sit? What we’re like? Is there a fast b office somewhere and washington d c or i think they have? Ah, i’m not exactly sure what main offices i apologized neo-sage years yet they have their members on around the country and sometimes, like their committees, meet off on their own experts. But they also have, like employees and other other okay, they’re not elected. This is not elected organization like the u s accountant and pepe, do you vote for the fast b do you vote for fast be members? People do i don’t you don’t vote, you don’t have a vote, you know, maybe they’re not voted. I don’t know. I’m sure. I figured it was just fast. B i was your fast b thing. It reminds me of his, uh, m p ay the motion picture association america. These people who rate movies like pg or an r seventeen and you are not in our butt pt seventeen. I don’t know who they are, but they have a lot of a lot of sway cause of a movie is our vs pg you know, that has a smaller audience in a big around. So, uh, all these all these organisms shadow like shadow government. Faz be mpa. I’m very suspicious. All right? Don’t be suspicious there. Really trust the people. You trust those people. They’re good people, and they do out off work for our industry. Okay, i know this stuff is important. Yes. What comes down from in terms of accounting standards is important. It affects us more than i think. Most people realize your accounting standards. All right. So we have some changes for non-profit round non-profits i would i gather is this is teo to make information more useful for, like, donors grant towards what do we what do i have there? General purpose behind these changes? Correct? Yeah, basically, the latest update from fast b is on this presentation of financial statements for not-for-profits that’s the one that i would liketo ah, space talk about in this show, financial statements are and, ah, basically they’re looking for ways to make the financial statement mohr user friendly, transparent grantspace and useful tow the reasons off the financial state organs and basically the project started tow, clarify certain misunderstandings and latto make the financial statements more useful in terms ofthe, like assessing tilly, could it be off organizations are you are really specific things about have to present of expenses by function and things like that? Ok, ok, so we’re trying to make these a cent more transparent because we know that people donors are becoming more sophisticated about where they’re going to give, looking for transparency, looking more for outcomes. Now i don’t know that i mean outcomes, they’re not part of the financial statement, but donors or more savvy, basically, i think a lot of this comes from guidestar, charity navigator, better business bureau wise giving alliance, you know, all encouraging donors to be smarter. All right, so so we know that donorsearch paying more attention to numbers on, and they’re also trying to make it more clear for the board members also. Okay, so this is supposed to help boardmember sze also right. Okay. Um, now you mentioned financial statements. What the one i’m going to start with those endowments. Okay, now everybody can understand that this is it’s complex, but we’re not gonna make it dull. And there’s mohr detail here. Me now asterisk, asterisk underlying bold there’s mohr detail to these changes than we can cover yet and i in twenty five minutes or even if he’d stayed for an hour, but i don’t want to do for accounting for an hour, so we’re going to acquaint you with the high level and not all the high level because there’s, just too many changes your c, p a and your auditor, they’re the ones who need to know about these changes. And so we’re going to talk a little about some of the changes the biggest changes, and then we’re going to get into when you need to put these changes into effect, whether you now or you wait until it required. We’re gonna get to that part, right? So we just have, like, a minute and a half or so before first break. All right, so just endowments. Now i’m going to give the non accountant definition of account endowment? Not that i don’t trust you, but i’m going to make it simple. It’s basically, your savings account. You only spend income or a portion of the income each year. And when you invade the principal of this quote savings account, um, you may need to get permission sometimes from a state. Or maybe from the donor. It’s a big deal to invade the principle of endowment. So this is long term, like perpetual funds, and you’re only spending the income or a portion of the income that you earn each year. Would you be willing to accept that peopling definition? That mostly? Yes. Okay. All right. So we have. All right. What? What refined my definition of endowment. Basically, the only thing i would add would be the ah, the use. Is not like legally, ah there’s, some recent changes in the law recently and day, a lot of you to spend fundez even though you go under the main principle so even invading the principal right, you can be the underwater endowment for its eggs, a colored exactly that’s, what we’re gonna get to underwater endowments will define it, and then we’ll talk about it right after this break you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing some live listener love we got so many, i’m going to spread out a bit, so i’m going to start with new york, new york, right where i’m sitting on west seventy second street multiple looked like a half a dozen or so in new york city love it live listen love to you! Tampa, florida, dallas, texas college station, texas woodbridge, new jersey live listener love oh, we got another one. Queens, woodhaven, new york, lovett lots of new yorkers checking in and new jersey to live listener love to you. Um go abroad germany. Guten tag seoul, south korea so so generous. Multiple multiple soul as always annual haserot comes a ham nida and we have a new country checking in mongolia. Looks like ulan bator, mongolia. Welcome live listed her love to you and the podcast pleasantries and the affiliate affections. They’re always coming. Stand by. Okay, eat. What is underwater? Endowment, basically and underwater endowment is a endowment that has lost value. So basically, just to give you an example, if there’s an endowment for a million dollars and it’s getting invested in the market and the market turns out and now the endowment is worth nine hundred, investment is worth nine hundred eighty thousand. Yeah, so the twenty thousand is considered to be underwater. Basically, in this case, usually it’s temporary. Because more market is supposed to go up in the long run, right, but depending on the timing, especially in the beginning, in like younger organization just starting an endowment. It’s it’s not very uncommon. And ah, basically, the new changes is is going to eliminate some off the confusion. Ok, in this, in this case. But before i talk about underwater endowments, i want to mention, like, the biggest change which i really like because it’s more clarified in the standard speeches, the net assets classifications you insist on to your being anarchist. You insist on talking about net assets first before endowment way. We have to go that way. Because it’s kind of like a subset off. This changes a subset in the net. Asset classifications. Ok, would be would be better if we do this. Okay. All right. So what about net assets? You gotta you gotta define this for us, right? The net assets. Are basically the organization’s net bird s o the balance sheet. The assets are about organization. I said equal liability is plus the owners equity. Exactly. Zoho neo-sage okay, so net assets are almost a kitty got in that example. So the net assets currently are classified into three three types. Unrestricted that asset, temporal restricted net assets and permanent restricted net asset. Okay, so the biggest change here is now you will have two types ofthe net assets. One it’s going to be called net assets. We dot dahna restrictions, which is be cool and off the current unrestricted net assets and net assets with dahna restrictions, which will yeah, include temporal restricted and permanently sticking that has its okay, so it’s so we’re now it z i see is more donor-centric it’s with donorsearch restrictions and without dahna restrictions that’s it that’s two classifications stead of three on its based on whether the donor has imposed restrictions on right now, the money’s gonna be spent, right? Basically, the good thing about this is this is pretty clear because it was confusing, like temporal, restricted by definition, it has to come from the donor but it’s confusing to some. People, because they were thinking the borg and restricted funds. Well, by definition, they can’t. But with this new of titles it’s going to be clear that it’s donor-centric shin’s. Okay, i see. And this would, of course, be, uh, usually are backed up. If it’s going to be a donor restrictions there’s typically a writing. I guess it depends on the size of the gift. I mean, i might give up just a fifty dollar gift and say it’s designated for a specific program. I wanted to go to the lunch soup kitchen that you run. Okay, that no writing for that, but that would be both. Restrictions were dahna restriction that acid don’t restrict right on. But if i do a half million dollar gift, they’re certainly going to be ah, writing or a contract, it is going to lay out the restrictions. Right? Okay. Oh, that’s. Easy, that’s. Easy. Why did i fail accounting? And when i was in carnegie mellon, all i learned is assets equals liabilities. Put sonar equity. I lasted like, three days, and i got i even i even got stuck with the textbook. I couldn’t return the book. Ah, all right, but i got that for all right. So that’s that’s easy now. So one off the things that this underwater endowments they counting for that is changing, too. In the past, the underwater portion was included with unrestricted net asset. And that was creating confusion because some organisations were thinking, although do we have to pay back? Or do we have to cover those losses and the law? Say’s, you don’t have to but now it is nufer change the loss will be included in the ah net assets with dahna restrictions peaches connect to be more ah, i think it’s a better street yeah, this is going to be in line with the law again. Donor-centric too, because site someone else creates an endowed fund that your non-profit that is that is wrist restrictions. Nobody gives an endowment for general purposes. So all right, that makes sense. But you’re saying in the past or i guess currently now it’s confusing where that underwater port should have been reported. But now that it has been reported as unrestricted, which was kind ofthe misleading, right there were restrictions. Okay, okay. All right. So anything more about underwater endowments? That is that’s that’s. That’s! That’s! That’s! Good. Cool. I’m not intimidated, but even i fail. You don’t want to get technical, so i don’t i don’t know, because then i will be intimidated. I mean, that was accounting for poets that i took. So you know where i’m standing, but happy to dio i want i want to talk about this because it’s important for non-profits um okay, what else do we have? Ah, what else? Give me another change throughout. Another change that significant, i think the one off the changes which another one that i like, which is going to be making the financial statements more clear. So you approve of the fast be this fast be changes most ofthe time. Yes, i like i like i like i collect them. I think i like most ofthe them. So one off the disclosures again toe avoid aa or eliminate or minimized the confusion. Ah, is ah, the organization’s liquidity. So currently there are no requirements to disclose liquidity, oft organization and ah, it’s kind of confusing because ben, the readers off the financials see unrestricted net assets. They may think that that money, i mean, then that number is ah, basic. The available free cash for cash little not because it can be if there’s a building like say, we’re tapped a million in the books yeah, it’s going to be ifit’s going to be rich effected in the unrestricted net assets, but that building is not readily convert. Okay, so there’s gonna be some something’s in the liquidity is something that people look at when they’re considering investing in stocks. They’ll look at free cash that the corporation has, um, so now we’re going to be able to make the same sort of analysis and analogous now analysis for non-profits yes, because it’s going to be required to non-profits will be required the basically disclose some qualitative information about how they manage its liquidity, and they could in this case will be defined to meet their cash need in the next twelve months, written within the next year. So there’s going to be qualitative information about that? In addition, there’s gonna be some qualitative, informing quantitative information? Ah, basically listing their financial assets, that’s going to be ready for general expenditures in the next year, so basically looking at those disclosures, the readers off the financial spill assess the organizations needs ah, liquidity, much better and liquor that they may be affected by restrictions from donors. You are south. Impose restrictions from the board. Okay. Let’s, let’s, unpack something here. The liquidity for twelve months now. So, i mean, suppose you only have six months of operational expenses that our liquid so you don’t have a year, but that it will still be disclosed. The old somebody can tell that you don’t have enough cash to get you through the year. Well, ah, basically a quiz is this is going to be disclosed as off the organization’s here. And so you gotta keep in mind that the organization hopefully bills keep getting income right here. Small eyes off today this’s once available for next year’s expenditures it’s going to be available as off that date available for for the next year, our shoretz or may or may not be thiss like equal to the one year’s worth of experience. Kayman up, right? I mean, it’s sort of a bad situation. If you don’t have enough liquidity to get you is like a year is that is that sort of a standard. That is a minimum that an organization should have. That’s going to be the standard for which these footnotes or disclosures bilich what do you think? I mean, is it necessary to have a year’s cash to be to be comfortable? Or is that really nice tohave about it? It’s really it’s very hard. So most off the non-profits they do not have that reserve and some off the lock yvonne’s about this wedding. Don’t you see more typically, like horrifically? If i didn’t have a cash reserve, what would i would like to be a minimum that you would advise me, tio tio, achieve basically most organizations, if they have ah, like three months off oken spence is in liquid essence. That’s, that’s, that’s. Pretty good. Okay, again, understanding more cash is going to coming in, but from day to day you’re recommending like a minimum wage at a minimum of all the income. All the case stops today. How long we can live for three months minimum you that that might be that’s what we see typically in, like really mid sized to smaller non-profit that’s our sweet spot, small and midsize. Exactly lots of colleges and hospitals, or mid sized, but some have more some have less. But if you have less than three months, it’s, not like you’re like in big trouble, but i would advise not-for-profits toe, build some reserves, okay, or for rate to get that three month party. Okay, rico, this is valuable. Um, all right, so so i like the fact that people will be able to make a comparison that i know a lot of investors make stocks in cos when they’re when they’re looking, whether a new investor not okay, what else? Throw, throw something else. That’s new everything that neil is. Ah, another disclosure requirement on functional expenses. So current the there’s two different standards, so for no voluntary health and benefit organizations that’s one type of a non-profit basically, they are required to disclose their record includes state, no functional expenses in their financial statements. Speech this basically this what you see on the nineties, the natural category and function so line item, natural expense category would be like wages, ok, in a functional category with bilich program or management general. Okay, so right now, those type of organization required to have that all other organizations, all they have to disclose is the total program expense his management general fund-raising i thought they’re not required toe put, like sailor expenses in their financial statements. So what this changes bringing is ah, basically all organizations either in a statement or a footnote disclosure, they’ll have to be disclosing like a nature and by function all their expenses. So it’s going to be ah more standard throughout when when you, when a reader off the financial looks at two different organisations, they’ll see this information either in the form of a statement or a food, not disclosure, but i’m going to be there. It sounds like a footnote you mentioned footnotes of budget and it sounds like footnotes are important, but most are very there. We should read the footnote. I had a law professor who used to advise you always read the footnotes and a fact on a law exam. One of our exam questions. You didn’t read the footnote. You were going to go astray in your analys sis. So the footnotes important. Take it. Take it from heat and a little for me because i know less about this thing. But not too many people read. No, i said i love the footnotes. Yeah, and i you know what bothers me when i see i read a text and i see a dagger or like a double dagger. I’m the one who’s looking on the and a lot of times i see this on food, food, packaging, where’s the foot i see a double dagger after after your word. Nutritious or something. Or minerals but where’s, the there’s. No explanation. You turn the package upside down and the double daggers aren’t to find anywhere. So i mean that’s different than financial statements. I realize that. But as a footnote meter, you know, that’s annoying. What? Take the double daggers. Off its’s erroneous double daggers. I don’t like that. So you’re doing doesn’t change with the ah, with this new standards ah, back to business now on me. Okay, the requirement will be the description off the methods have the organization allocates expenses, which is important, in my opinion because it’s going to require organizations to think more about how they locate expect they’re there. They’re gonna have to disclose how they do it. So how are we doing it now? What’s the current rule on expenses are important. I mean that’s everything right? Expenses are everything from rent two insurance, two wages to program expenses. These are all okay. What’s what’s the problem with the current method of expense reporting there’s really? I wouldn’t call it a problem. But there’s, some different from it has be disagrees with you. I get fat city or the fast burn don’t agree they’re they’re emphasizing switches, which is a good thing. But ah, i don’t see there’s a problem, but we see different matters used by different organizations and ah, this paid the reader off the financial statements bill know what method they use? Because these are mostly like estimates which we called significant estimates and ah, and they’ll be disclosing the basis is off these estimates, which is going to give more information to the rehearsals, were basically standardizing the method of of expense reporting. Is that basically what we’re doing? In-kind off. But if even if you’re not standardizing, we are basically making organizations disclose off treyz baron, more transparency give more information have have their doing this okay again, more donors friendly, more user friendly. Okay, okay. Um, let’s deviate a little bit in terms of implementation of thes rules. Now they’re they’re required by required to start using these by when basic the ah the requirement is that for counter your organization’s it’s going to be two thousand eighteen so they’ll be required in their december thirty first, two thousand eighteen financial statements and for fiscal years it’s going to be two thousand nineteen. So if the organization is a junior and it’s going to be for the year ending june thirty two thousand nineteen. Okay, that’s what’s required. Spend it’s quiet. But you can do it earlier. Yes way. Only about a minute left. Believe it or not. So in a minute or so what is there? Any advantage to doing it earlier than you then required? Well, the one advantage would be there more accounting standards updates coming, which is one of them is a revenant. Records face-to-face tio let’s not get into that, but it’s coming face to is coming later. But there are latto one like big ones. Fundez the leases on the other one is revenue recognition between pick some off the non-profits. So the advantage off that would be ah durney implementation would be that you don’t have toe implement everything, like very close, so you can government it’s now and implement other ones in two years. But i haven’t seen any organizations that have been building to implement early, yet not embracing the change about your client’s. Yeah, assuming that this scott issued in august off two thousand sixteen, they’re pretty naive standards. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. You thank you. I had, you know what i had ready for you is, uh the keys to jog in jail, but i didn’t need them see so outstanding. Excellent. Excellent. Put those keys away for another time. And another guest you duitz doom partner wagner cpas. You’ll find them at wagner, cps, dot com and at wagner cps. Thank you very much. Thank you for tony. My pleasure. We’ve got more coming up, and that is with maria simple and that is linked in latest first pursuant, do you want to start a sustainers e-giving program or fine tune your existing program monthly giving raises money and builds strong relationships? I think we all know that because they’re giving month after month and lots of opportunities to thank them or you. Although you’re not supposed to say thank you every month. That’s bad, but it builds relationships. Um, they have a stat that a ten percent increase in donorsearch retention can equal a two hundred percent increase in donor. So i think this is it’s worth looking at. And you want to do your sustainers program, right? So that you get the maximum value out of it. This is the free webinar coming up is sustained, e-giving decoded and it is on february fourteenth. Valentine’s day so you can get the love from your donors sustaining, giving, decoded ah, you’ll find it at pursuant dot com to register, click on resource is and then webinars. Oh, in a footnote i gotta put in i get a double dagger footnote for you that this may also be helpful to you if you need to convince your ceo or you’re bored to start or expand your recurring giving program double dagger, see, i defined my double deckers i don’t like i don’t like errant double daggers, we’ll be spelling. Have you seen the video from their spelling bee for help for children? One guy in the video says best spelling bee i’ve been to in a long time somebody else. Ah lot of great spellers, great band. We had a blast there’s a couple that says we would definitely come back to we’d be spelling this is not your seventh grade spelling bee. Check out the video, it’s that we be e spelling dot com now, tony steak too. The deed is done. My long hair has been cut video of the ceremonial cutting. You will find it at tony martignetti dot com it’s gotten a decent number of hits you’ll be pat, my stylist, the artist. And you watch my river of curls flow down by purple gown onto the floor. Tragic but it’s done what’s done is done. We can’t you can’t. You can never go back. But you do have the opportunity to bear witness to this history it’s at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two maria semple. Everybody knows who she is. She she she needs no introduction. She she deserves an introduction. Certainly, but it’s it’s not necessary. You know that she’s the prospect. Find her she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research that her website is the prospect finder dot com that her latest book is magnify your business tips, tools and strategies for growing your business or you’re not non-profit uh, you know, whereas our diet of dirt cheap and free and you’ll find her on twitter at maria simple, real simple. Welcome back. Thank you so much, tony. Great to be here. That’s. A pleasure, it’s. A pleasure. Thank you. Um, let’s see, linked in. Lincoln has some changes for us. What’s going on over there, you know, you know the one thing about social media that you can count on as if there’s always going to be something changing, right? So lincoln is no exception to that, and they have kind of rolled out a whole new look and feel, if you will, and with that, they’ve rolled out a bunch of changes, especially to an area i’ve always loved on linked in, which is the advanced search feature. So if you haven’t had the change yet, if you’ve not linked, log into your lincoln profile in awhile on you go in there today and it looks the same and feels the same as it always did. Then you have not been migrated over to the new platform yet. It’s weird, i mean, i’m still on the old platform, but i’ve had it experience with using it through some of my clients that i consult with on their linked in profile, so i kind of seen both side by side, all right? So everybody is not converted over that, right that’s reassuring to me, it’s, an immigration prophecy, the immigration problems there throughout the country. It’s an immigration migration problem because i went because i went to you know, i’m prepping, prepping for this, but believe it or not, i mean, i do prepare for the show and i don’t see any difference in mind. So i was thinking these are pretty subtle changes, but maria says she wants to talk about them. I don’t see any changes. Okay, so i am a non immigrant. I’m not immigrants that i don’t have a card or anything. I’m non for the new i’m non status, non citizen status for the new lincoln change, okay, right, right, that’s, right? But, you know, soon i think it’s going to happen for all of us. So you know, if you still have that i’m going to say old look and field here platform, i would say some of the tips that we’re going to talk about today in terms of prospecting. Anyway, you would really want to hop on board and take advantage of using the advanced search feature right away because it will soon disappear in terms of really the refinement that you’re going to be able to do with your your searching, they’re going to make that the base and i know you like me talking about free and dirt cheap, but i did. Think it was an important topic for at least to talk about, you know, what can you still do for free? And what will you need to pay for? What will it cost? Charlie ford? So this is an urgent urgent topic if you are on the old platform of you’ve been non immigrated over, forcibly, then do a lot of advanced searches now we’re going to talk about what changing but do them now while you still can for free. Yeah, yeah. Okay, hunker down this weekend. Yeah, right. Okay, so you know it, sze classic with with the social media platforms that they they give you something for nothing and it’s robust, and then they start charging for it once you’re accustomed to it. Same thing with facebook making the organic reach of pages so difficulty, tio have decent numbers on to encourage you, teo, to buy tow to boost your butcher post, which costs money. Yeah, well, you know, these companies do have shareholders to respond to what they have to make some money. Whatever. Okay, uh, i’m doing a lot of grassing today. I know. I know. A suspect of faz b and m piela i’m on edge, on edge. Okay, what’s changed. Go ahead, give us the bad news. What? What? What are we gonna have to pay for, or maybe you already have to pay for. Okay, so the searching that you used to be able to do one of the things i always loved twas being able to really refine a search. So let’s say, i’m looking for a state planning attorneys that are within a, you know, ten to one hundred mile radius of my zip code who are also interest buy-in volunteering or serving is a boardmember at a non-profit that search to that level of refinement in terms of the zip code and the radius around a zip code that is gone, you now need to pay to use length in if you want to use that level of refinement. So now, if i want to search for an estate planning attorney interested in volunteering or boardmember ship, i can limit it to the greater new york city area, for example, or the greater chicago area. You know, those larger you know how when we’re setting up arlington profiles, we get listselect you know that we’re in the greater new york city area for folks like you and i, so you will now only be able to refine it geographically to that degree, and now so many of your listeners really serve a very you know, specific geographic scope. I always thought that that search feature was going to be awesome, you know, now you can’t really refine it is much unless you want to pay to use lengthen. So are you saying wait, hold on. So you’re saying, are you saying greater new york is is you can’t get any narrower than that under the new service? Back-up correct, but you can get, but you can’t get more refined currently, you can get more refined if you’re still under the old form, right? So how much can you refine it by, like, zip code? Or you could go by zip code? I could have searched for a state planning attorney within ten miles of my coat and now greater new york city area. It requires a double dagger. What? How do you define greater new york city? I mean, that could include philadelphia, for god sake or or close to philadelphia. Yeah, man. Yeah. So, unfortunately, you’re going to have to pay to refine it if you want it, you know, and any more refined than that. So i was sorely disappointed that that particular functionality went away, however, they still for free left the functionality in of searching for people who have a non-profit interest of either skilled volunteering or burt board service. So, you know, if he ah all’s not lost is what i’m saying, okay, so i still think the fact that they left that capacity there for a non-profit executive to use linked into search for people who are within, say, the greater new york city area interested in volunteering for, for, you know, their organizations, you know, somebody has, um, i think, taking the step of putting on their own personal lincoln profiles and raise their hand and said, yeah, i’m interested in volunteering or i’m interested in board service, i still think it’s going to be valuable, to be able to proactively go in and identify who some of these people are, right? But you have to sift through so many more because you can no longer define it to within ten miles of my zip code, right? Right. So you know, you may come up with several hundred people in the search results, as opposed to maybe a more manageable list of, you know, say, i don’t know forty or fifty people that might have come up if you were really refining it to a ten mile radius, so, you know, a little bit more sifting, ah, little bit more digging that you’re going to have to do once you get that list, but it’s still could be valuable, you know, might be something that you can have on an intern do. Um, so i know it feels like, you know, summer is forever away, but, you know, you’ve got spring break coming up for college students, and so maybe this is something you can set up for as a nice small project for a college intern, okay? There’s a there’s, a there’s, a dirt cheap or free idea? Thank you always. See, i’m glad you’re on today because you’re you and eat your finding the bright spots when i’m feeling very grassy, i don’t know why. Um okay, uh, what i was gonna ask about the oh, so what? What about people’s industry? If you’re trying to find some a particular industry that someone is in. Is that that’s still that’s still free? Yes. You can still refine buy-in district? Yes. You can do that school. All right. What about ah, company current company. Past company? Yes, you can still refined by current and past company as well. So if you really want to refine it that way, you can do that. Do you know what school they went to? Also in terms of the universe. So if you want to try and find, you know ah, alum who? You know, you went toe to college with the same university or something. And you think that, you know, maybe you’d at least have an affinity, a reason to connect with that person because you went to the same school, you know that. That could be an opportunity there. What? Do you know what the cost is? If somebody wants to take on the pro version is, like fifty bucks a month or so? Yes. So there’s, uh, there’s a version that is called sales navigator and that’s. Probably the version that that the non-profits they’re going to want to use ad so you can either lock in for sixty for ninety. Nine a month if you lock in for a year, or you can go month to month at seventy nine ninety nine a month, um, and that, of course, you can just use it for the months that you want. Now, here’s here’s. The beauty of it, though you can use it for free for thirty days, so they will let you have a trial, if you will, for thirty days. So again, if you have been migrated over and you want to at least give the new platform a try, i highly recommend you at least try it for free for thirty days. Okay? And again, if you haven’t been migrated over yet, get get to it. Do your do your searches. Yeah, okay, what? What else can you tell us? You’re gonna have to start paying for that that’s free now. Well, um, let’s see what else? One of the things that they are giving access to, i will say, which could be pretty valuable for non-profits who want to make sure that their folks, you know, have access to some good training and so forth, but can’t really pay to send them to a lot of conferences and what not with the premium level services you have access to things, something called lincoln learning and lincoln salary, so i think lincoln learning where they boast that they have over nine thousand courses available, i think that could be a pretty interesting value proposition for a lot of non-profits who want to make sure that folks say, you know, trained on various, maybe technical things and so forth, those nine thousand are specifically for non-profits those air non-profit topics? No, no, they’re not i mean, they’re across the board. I mean, i would imagine if you need to learn how to use excel better or, you know, you want to learn more about, you know, how to use facebook marketing or things like that? Those are the types of, you know, online courses, if you will, that you’re going tohave available. Now, i’ve not tested any of them. You know, i i i don’t, you know, i can’t talk about, you know, they’re they’re quality and so forth. But i thought that was kind of interesting that they did, you know, have that as a perk, teo, to premium. Well, of course, they’re not going to be as valuable as the seminars that maria simple does throughout the country. Prospect research. All right, let’s, let’s, go out, take a break, and marie and i’m going to keep talking about these, the linked in latest, which i’m not liking, but we have to keep talking about it. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals too short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Are we gonna do more live? Lister eleven the first person i want to shit out out is something else from wagner, who i met with you eat it wasn’t in the studio today, but chris, chris rowe, you ask for a shoutout, sometimes i don’t give him just cause you asked, but i’ve given it to you live with her love to you, andi let’s, go let’s, continue to go abroad. Um, we got something else from mongolia, so originally we had ulan bator, mongolia, and now we’ve got sue betar, mongolia, so i don’t know if you two are connected by phone and the person in ulan bator contacted his or her friend in su betar, mongolia, and told him you gotta be listening. It’s tony monday non-profit radio, which which i think is a very worthwhile reason to make a phone call, but either way, whether you know each other or not live listen, i’d love to you. Germany is with us more multiple, more germany, guten tag uk is with us. Is it in england? We know is it? Uh we don’t know, we don’t even know which is which of the was therefore countries it. Could be whales or ireland or scotland, or it could be england. But the uk is with us, maybe it’s, someone welch. I don’t know now if it’s someone english and i just called them welch that’s, very bad, so i’m not getting into it live. Listen, love to the person or people listening in the united kingdom. Let’s, leave it there. And the podcast pleasantries have to come over twelve thousand. Now, over twelve thousand listeners on your own schedule. I love it. It’s it’s, twenty seventeen is all about. Listen at your leisure, benj, listen or do it in drops live. Listen to our podcast pleasantries to the over twelve thousand of you and the affiliate affections to r kayman fm listeners throughout the country. So glad that you are with us. Please let your station know that you listen to non-profit radio that will help us a lot and help them affiliate affections to our am and fm affiliate listeners. Very simple. Um, we were goingto yes. Okay, so let’s continue with what’s. Ah, what you got to pay for news now or soon? That that used to be free. Okay. Well, let’s, let’s, talk about what? Some of the good freebies air still there because sound like i think i might have depressed you in that first segment there. I want to make sure i looked into it. Might be my short hair. It might be this hair cut. I don’t know what it is. You know, it’s, i walked in this way. I don’t know why go. Ahead, yeah, we wouldn’t leave you in your listeners on a good note, let’s talk about some of the stuff you can still do for free that i think are pretty awesome, so they and i’m going to give you a website, and i’ll also put it on your facebook page. But it’s non-profit dot length in dot com forward slash development, right? So you know what they were? I want to focus a little bit more on how to elevate their their pages entitled how to elevate your fundraising efforts with lincoln, so they give you some some tips and ideas on that particular page, as you know how non-profits can use this for fund-raising for development, one of the things they provide is a free webinar that you can watch to learn how to use lincoln better for fund-raising so again, that is still free, and i think it would be well worth while at least checking that out and see what additional tips you might be able to get on. How to use lengthened for fund-raising okay, i’ll just put that in my takeaway is okay non-profit derelict in dot com slash development, okay? And i yeah. I did want to point out that that that domain is still available that non-profit doubt linked in dot com there’s still a lot of good stuff there. Yes, there is. Yes, absolutely so there’s, some good stuff there. So it’s a bad still there, that’s still free they what? When i was poking around that area, one of the things that i did find is that they give an email address, that they say that you can the email them to see if you qualify for discounts. Now i don’t know what that means to see if you qualify for discounts of the non-profit um and then on and the e mail address that they give is non-profit solutions at lincoln dot com and i i i don’t know what the qualifications are. I don’t know if it’s by size of budget, i don’t know, i don’t know, i have no idea, i don’t know anybody who approach them with this, but i figured since i was preparing for the show and i came across that e mail address that dear listeners might want to know about that, they also say that they have a lincoln fund-raising specialist who’s. Available and there’s a form that you fill out and hit send, i guess. And then somebody from lincoln reaches out to you. So that might be worth pursuing something. What? You know, maybe they’re going to give you some free ideas about how to use linked in better and so on. And so for non-profit fund-raising specialist. Yeah. That’s what they call it. I know where you found that on non-profit darlington dot com. Yeah, for its development is where you found that non-profit fund-raising specialist form that you submit? Yeah. Yeah, because they have. They have a link at the very bottom that says, talk with our non-profit specialists. And so when i click clicked on that, i noticed that they have ah, form that you can fill out. And then somebody gets back to you that we should try to get somebody on from lincoln. How about that? There you go. That was that the form and say, hey, i’m learning a radio show. Come on and talk to me. Well, that’s, one way to do it so that’s. A rather simple minded way. It certainly will get the job done. I prefer to be a lot. More sophisticated than that, but okay, i’ll take that one under advisement. Do that without specialist or specialists. Was it a plural specialists? They just say that they have a lincoln fund-raising specialist available for just one person serving a well, i don’t know one point. Two million of us. Ok, it’s hard, it’s. Hard to say. I mean, i don’t know how you know how much they still have in terms of staffing available that they have dedicated to the non profit sector. That would be really interesting question to ask now, did you say a non-profit fundez specialist or the non-profit reasonscall esha list? That article is very important a versus the did you catch that chance? Okay, let’s say that speaks to a link in a ok, so that religion fundrasing specialist who could help you find the right fund-raising solution for your non-profit okay is very important a versus d because okay, so the a of course it could mean they only have one and they just making it sound like they have multiple but that’s another conspiracy don’t okay spirit. Very grassy today, very graphic sexual it’s a short hair i don’t know i’m set off today. I don’t know why. Okay, let’s, get you back in here. Tony welchlin articles. A very important article arguing articles are very important. Geever city, i think. But there is one more thing i did want to focus on that you can still do for free on linkedin, even with the new search feature. So when you have that that search box that’s at the top of the page now they do allow you to run bully in searches. Now you’re going to put me in jargon, geo bully. And everybody knows boolean is good, kendo and or and not okay, so a little feedback. All right, so is that something new? Bully in search? Well, it’s it’s taught their you know, their they’ve given you some, you know, instructions on how you can actually run those searches in terms of how to use you know the word not or and you know how to use the parentheses, teo, filter down your searches. So again, you know, it could be a way for you, teo, to take advantage of what still available for free one. One of the things that i found was interesting, though, is that you? Can’t use like like we can you do on google when we’re running searches, you cannot use the plus sign or the minus sign. So you must use the word and instead of the plus sign and you must use the word not in place of the a minus sign. Okay, that’s it. We’re going very grandeur now, boy. Okay, i know that. Yeah, yeah, pretty pretty important. Is this going away in a new in the newer version is the is the is the boolean search going away? No, no. It’s there. It’s still there? Okay. That’s. Why? I want to make sure we covered it because it is there also those those operators not. And or they must be in upper case letters if you’re going to use that. So that that’s important? A cz? Well, ok, ok. And they’re not supporting any type of wild card searches. Sometimes if you only knew, say part of the word you used to be able to put an asterisk at the end. Well, you can normally and boolean searches, but apparently on their platform they are not doing a wild cards search. So let’s say you were looking for the word ah, fundraiser or fund-raising you normally would have been able to put in f u n d e r a f asterisk so that it would complete the word in any way. But now you can’t do that on this particular bullying search. But, you know, i did want to let people know that that is available. You could just do fund-raising capital o capital our fundraiser and that would cover. All right, we got to leave it there. Maria simple. Thank you so much. Thank you for keeping us on our toes and linked in excellent, you’ll find maria. You’ll find maria at the prospect finder dot com and also at maria simple next week don’t burn out in twenty seventeen and personalized video if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer. I’m working on hiring a new am and fm outreach director and i mistakenly had gavin in the credits last week after i said goodbye on january first, but gavin, if you don’t, if you don’t leave, we can start missing, so please i’m a damn idiot intern alright, social so media is by susan chavez on our music is by scott stein he’s going to be singing shortly and i’m going to talk over him, so saying, bring him down if you start to happen your turn you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great you can’t take my own advice what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine am or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles? Best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch. Kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah. You know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow. And savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 7, 2015: Labor Law & IRS Helps Your Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Tom Wassel: Labor Law

Tom Wassel

Attorney Thomas Wassel, partner at Cullen and Dykman, says nonprofits often make mistakes around employee versus independent contractor (it’s not enough to pay them by invoice!) and when bringing in volunteers and interns. We’ll keep you on the right side of the law. (Originally broadcast on June 6, 2014)



Yigit Uctum: IRS Helps Your Marketing

Yigit Uctum

Yigit Uctum is a CPA with Wegner CPAs. He’s got ideas for using your IRS Form 990 in your marketing. See, it does have a purpose. (Originally broadcast on September 12, 2014)




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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow a ganglion cyst if you handed me the thought that you missed today’s show labor law attorney thomas was cell partner at cullen and eichmann says non-profits often make mistakes around employee versus independent contractor it’s not enough to be paying them buy-in voice and when bringing in volunteers and interns, we’ll keep you on the right side of the law. This was originally broadcast on june sixth last year, and iris helps your marketing heat coach. Tomb is a c p a with wagner cpas. He’s got ideas for using your form? Uh nine ninety in your marketing. It does have a purpose that was originally broadcast on september twelfth. Twenty fourteen so today, it’s law and taxes which on non-profit radio are never boring on tony’s take two. Start your plan e-giving here responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising you need more prospects, they’re smart technology will find them pursuing dot com here is tom marcel and labor law. I’m very glad that subject of labor law for non-profit springs tom will sell to the studio. He’s, a partner in the law firm cullen and dyckman in garden city, new york. And in new york city, he’s been advising employers on a wide range of labor and employment law matters since nineteen eighty three. He is president elect of the long island, new york chapter of the labor and employment relations association. Thomas l welcome to the studio. Nice to nice to be in your studio, tony. Good to see you here. I’m glad we could do it face to face. So employees versus independent contractor, it turns out, is not enough to just pay somebody buy-in voice. And then, while love they’re they’re an independent contractor. That’s absolutely enough if you want to get into trouble. But it’s not enough if you want to do it right. Okay, basically, whenever one person is performing services for another person or another company, the presumption is that there are an employee and that with everything that that entails, including federal taxes, state taxes, worker’s compensation benefits, unemployment insurance benefits, employee health benefits, things like that in order for them to be classified properly as an independent contract that there’s a number of tests that they need to meet and if they don’t meet those tests and accompany miss classifies employees big trouble with the department of labor. Okay, we’ll talk about the misclassification ramifications, and so now we’re talking about federal and state, the the where where is this test? This test is from the i r s and then and then well, is that the eleven points is that from the irs? Absolutely the irs the internal revenue service has an eleven point test, which is used for determining whether or not you have to take out taxes from people’s wages, okay, but every state also has its own version of the test. They’re they’re pretty similar, but in terms of whether or not you need to contribute for worker’s compensation benefits or unemployment insurance benefits, and they all apply pretty much the same type of tests to determine the employee status. Okay, so it sounds like you’re in pretty good shape if you’re following the irs test, which we’re going to talk about, but you still need to enquire at the state level or or you’re not, because you’re not a hundred percent safe if you’re doing. Following just the irs that’s, that’s absolutely true in other words, each state can have its own rules and merely complying with the federal law that that’s fine in terms of federal taxation. But certain states have have stricter rules with regard to treating people as independent contractors versus employees. So you need to see counsel in the state in which you practice. I practice in new york, so you know, my comments about any law would be limited to anything in new york state and federal law. Okay, we’ll stick with the federal with the caveat that you should check the state level, but you’re on your you’re well, on your way if you’re if you’re complying with the irs regs, i imagine, absolutely okay, okay, so are we these these eleven items? Eyes is basically around the relationship between the employed, the non-profit and the person doing the work. Absolutely the key elements in the test without without trying to go over check checklist abila talk on some of them were good, some of it’s, a degree of control that thie and i’m going to go. I’m going to use the term employer here, even though we may. Say it’s a contractual relationship, okay, but no, we’ll say or the employer of the company, the relationship between the company and the person performing the service is in an employment relationship. For example, the company tells the employees where to work, what time to show up what their duties are? Ah, and what do they report to who they’re going to supervise if they’re going to supervise anybody? Things like that in a relationship like that that’s that tends towards the employer employee relationship as opposed to an independent contractor for an independent contractor, you basically say here’s the job, here’s here’s, what i want you to accomplish, maybe cem general guidelines do it when you think it’s appropriate, although there may be deadlines set, but i’m not going to tell you how to do it. I’m not going to supervise you on a day to day basis. I’m not going to provide you with the materials to do it. You do it on your own and i’m simply going to pay you a fee, which is another important distinction there the fee basis versus an hourly or salary type basis? Okay, we’ll get to that. You you touched. On something that i want to explore a little bit, the place where the work is done. So you you can’t have the person always coming to your office to perform the work, know that you can’t have the person doing the work in your office. But it really that would depend on the nature of the work. For example, if, if you if you have employees doing the same work, and now you’re going to bring in somebody else from the outside to sit alongside your employees and do the same work, well, that’s an indicator not not it’s, not a single point test but it’s, an indicator of an employer employee relationship. Now, if this person has his or her own business on the outside, has business cards may work from more than one company at the same time, or one after another on it, since you’re simply hiring that outside company to perform services for a limited period of time, well, that it tends to lean more towards the independent contractor relationship. How do we balance these eleven? Which we’ll get into some detail about some of the others too? But is it ah, like majority, if you have, if you have six out of the eleven year okay, andi it’s going to go one way or the other based on a majority? Or how does it work? Well, there is no bright line test. Those lawyers like to say, i think to some extent you apply the duck test if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck it’s very fact specific and a trier of fact, whether it would be through the department of labor or worker’s compensation board or in a court of law would look at all of these factors and say, well, okay, the control factor tends to lean towards employees, but the independent company factor tends to lean towards independent contractor and way all of these factors together, and then come up with an answer. Okay, so these eleven points are are the things that iris is going to consider? This is what they’re going to look at, and they’re going to put it all together. And they’re going to make a decision. Absolutely. Okay. And i guess it would work similarly at the state level. Like when you mention department of labor. We’re talking about the state department of labor could be state of the state or the united states department of labor. There’s both and and they’re very interested because independent contractors aren’t entitled to overtime or minimum wage or anything like that. You you pay them a fee or you pay them. You pay a company a fee to do something and that’s. Fine. But if their employees and they work more than forty hours in a week, they’re entitled to overtime. Yeah, we may have time to get more into that. Right. Okay. Um, i think we will. Actually, um, what are some of the other side? The other factors in these in these eleven points? Well, as i mentioned it’s the ah it’s. How people are paid. Yeah. That’s a good one. Sorry. Let’s. Talk about that one. The fee versus fee versus salary. Right. Well, typically, an employee may get an hourly wage. May get a weekly salary. It’s generally, the relationship is often not always but often sort of. Open ended that is to say, we’re going to hire you, not necessarily for two week barrier or until you finish this job, but we’re going to hire you as an employee and keep you on, but we pay you on a pay check. Ah, as opposed to an independent contractor who would normally be paid through some voucher system or through through ah, obviously issuing a ten, ninety nine, which is the tax form for independent contractors and might be in a lump sum. It might be in regular payments, but it’s not based on number of hours worked or anything like that that again, depending on how you structure the deal, that would tend to lean more towards employees or more towards independent contractor. What about? I think you mentioned giving someone the tools to do the work so you shouldn’t be giving them ah, laptop tto do the work or or other things or certainly office space dedicated in the office? I mean, that’s tending to look like employment, right? When you’re giving them that stuff? Absolutely. If i say, come into my place of business and i’m going to give you everything you need to do. The job and you don’t have toe put anything on the table other than what i give you that’s the hallmark of an employee, as opposed to an independent contractor who brings their own knowledge, skills and tools to the table and does the job that you’re paying them to do. We’ll go out for a short break, and when we come back, tell marcel and i’m going to keep talking about this and then we’ll get into volunteers and interns, and then i believe we will have time to for overtime for employees you’re supposed be paying your employees overtime. Do you maybe want to turn this off? If you’re listening in the office on monday, only the bosses want to hear this. We’ll get into all that stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Let’s, send some live listener love arco, idaho and orlando, florida live listener love to you very glad you with us let’s, go abroad! Seoul, korea manu haserot, islamabad, pakistan i’m sorry. I don’t know how to greet you in, uh in is it pasha pashtun? Passion is that i’m not sure what, but live listener love to you in islamabad, irrespective of how i would say it in your in your tongue, in your language bonem changing china, always welcoming the chinese lots of listeners. Ni hao, nagoya and tokyo, japan sending you konnichi wa and there are others we’ll get to them kuwait also, i wanted to get to kuwait. Um attorney thomas l let’s see if you’re if you’re the person who’s doing the work is getting their income from a bunch of different places. Is that that’s that’s? One of the factors, isn’t it that’s, clearly one of the factors, and and that would certainly militate or tend towards a finding of an independent contractor relationship? If you hire a company, the company may have its own letterhead may have its own invoices may have its own business cards may have an ad in the yellow pages for those of us who still actually use paper yellow pages or maybe a gn internet list thing nowadays. So if you hold yourself out as an independent company and maybe even filed company tax returns on have a company workers compensation policy, things like that that again would lean towards the independent contractor relationship rather than employees. If you are ah found by the irs to have misclassified people doing the work, would you expect that the irs is going to report to your state department of labor that they’ve found a misclassification? That’s, that’s a really good question, and i get asked that those kinds of questions a lot from lots of different employers, i tend to represent employers, and my understanding is no, they don’t necessarily do that. That particularly if you settle the case, the words that come to you and say you messed up, you need to pay x amount, and if you settle it voluntarily, they’re not going to go broadcasting it to the world so that there could be more agencies to come and knock on your door, because that would discourage you from settling in the first place that’s not to say that other agencies won’t find out about it. And certainly if the case were public, if you would have to go to court, which is a public record and other agencies saw that they could be knocking on your door as well, where do you see employers messing up? Well, it’s again, it’s the any of any of these factors will any or any role these factors? I have clients, and obviously i’m not going to mention names. Uh, i brought you for so it’s um, provocative, the name dropping. All right, i thought i’d like to keep practising law for a few more you’re not retired, they yeah, i have i have clients that have they’ll bring people in and they treat them as independent contractors and they say, well, they’re only going to be here for two months. I’m hiring them for a special project and i say yes, hiring see, that was the key word there on it doesn’t matter if you’re hyre it is a temporary employee or a permanent employee that’s one factor, but not not controlling temporary employees, their employees, so you have to treat them as contractors, and i’ve had a number of audits fromthe state workers compensation, border unemployment insurance division that come in and say you’re not paying premiums to these people because you’re not treating them as employees. Pay up. What? What are the penalties let’s talk about the federal level? What would you expect from the irs if ur misclassifying? Well again? In most cases, if if you own up to the to the mistake, you’ll certainly have to pay what’s owed but safe for the i r s not only will you have to pay what the employers share of the taxes wouldn’t really be, and they also have to pay the employees share of the tactics so security taxes that should have been paid exactly pay both the employer and the employee because the employer messes up, the irs isn’t going to go to the employees and say, by the way, some of that money you got, we want you to give some of it back. It’s, the employer’s responsibility to properly pay the employees. Okay, so the back taxes that were owed, what else? What else might be expect? Well, there, there could be civil penalties involved to or if it was done knowingly over a long period of time, with no knowing that you were violating the law usually second or third offenders, there could be some more severe penalties involved as well, you’re always welcome teo disagree with young arrests, right on contest there, their belief that you’re misclassifying absolutely, you know, just just cause the irs says so doesn’t make it so. But the presumption is that these people are employees, right, and it’s up to the employer to prove based on the law that these people are actually independent contractors. So if you if you want to fight them, you better have a pretty good case. Let’s move teo volunteers and interns what? What are what are non-profits often getting wrong around these? Well, the good news for not for not-for-profits we call them not-for-profits in new york, but non-profits same, the good news for non-profits is that you’re allowed tohave volunteers in the in the in the in the for-profit sector, you basically can’t have volunteers. Anybody who does work for you has to be paid, but in the in the nonprofit sector, you can’t have volunteers, but there are some rules about that as well. The work that’s being volunteered for can’t be the same kind of work that’s otherwise being done. In other words, you can’t have a paid clerical person sitting at a desk and then have somebody else come in and say, well, i’m going to volunteer and i’m going to do the same work sitting side by side the paid pearl really? All right, so let’s, let’s taken example of that suppose closed. You have employees that are preparing mailings. You’ve got a five thousand piece mailing going out and you don’t hyre ah, male house, you’re doing it inside and you’ve got people stuffing in printing, stuffing envelopes, putting stamps on, and then you bring some volunteers in to do that same work side by side with employees. That’s that’s, not a volunteer. I’d be very concerned about that. If i was the employer and i if i was their attorney, i would be tell saying we need to take a long, hard look at this because again, people sitting side by side, some people are being paid. Some people are, quote, unquote, volunteering very dangerous situation, even if the volunteers volunteered. I mean, even if they walked in and they love the mission, they’ve said, i want to help you. How can i help? And you said, well, we could use ten hours on, you know, over the weekend to put this mailing together well not-for-profits tend to be generally charitable, religious or religious organizations and the servant public purpose and that’s why they’re allowed tohave volunteers to some extent, but to the extent that you’re basically just doing the same work as other employees and saying, i don’t want to get paid for it, the law doesn’t really sanction such things. Oh, my, okay, i got to take a little tension because you mentioned for-profit companies, and i’m interested in that on the intern side. What about all the unpaid internships that are coming right now? It’s, it’s, summertime, what about those? Well, and you read about them all the time in the paper about the irs or the part you read about them in the new york journal? I don’t not seeing it in the where i’m seeing in popular, more more general press well, you get for-profit ce are allowed to have interns, but not that you can’t just but but i had on somebody and say, hi, you’re an intern, you’re going to work for me and you’re not going to get paid that would be violating the minimum wage laws for, among other things, but somebody can provide an internship if under certain circumstances, if they’re getting some sort of academic credit from an outside institution, if they are getting some sort of actual training from you that’s not specifically tailored to your organisation, but but taylor to their field of study, if they understand from the outset that they’re not going to get paid and that’s an internship also, it has to be a relationship where i understand from the outset otherwise it’s indentured servitude you tell them you’re getting gonna get paid, then they don’t they don’t see a paycheck. That’s ah, there’s got okay. That’s clearly got to be rolled. Believe it or not that’s that’s what? I passed that spelled out there. They have to understand that somebody’s done it. Yeah, all right, on. And also, they’re supposed to actually, because they’re an intern and learning from you, they’re supposed to be, if if anything, and impediments to the business not ah. Bonus to the business. In other words, if the business says we’re going to hyre fifty interns to do all sorts of work for us and make money for us that’s not really a bona fide internship, the purpose of the internship, the primary purpose is to give training to the intern, not to make money for the company. And if it’s really a benefit to the company that’s one of the factors that will be looked at to say these air not truly entrance. Okay, thank you for taking little digression in tow. For-profit i love it, you know, you you have these answers on top, your head man xero no notes, which i admire, i don’t like i don’t like notes, really? I have notes, but it is just off the top percent wonderful. I’ve been doing it for thirty plus years. I know you start to learn it if that helps. Yeah, yeah. So let’s go back to the non-profit side there are so the general rule is that you can’t have unpaid work as volunteers, but then there are these exceptions that we were starting to get into right if it’s a bona fide organization charitable. Organization and people are truly coming and say, i want to lend a hand to do you were having were having a blood drive or we’re having a a special event, and i’m a community member i’m going to come in and volunteer to give some of my time to help you that’s a true volunteer, but again, if if they’re volunteering simply to do work that the company not-for-profits would otherwise be paying for that’s a problem, employees of the not-for-profits basically can’t volunteer to give away free work. That’s interesting. I wonder if that comes up much. I don’t know. Well, if you see it well, i haven’t seen it, but it’s addressed in a number of decisions or regulations where somebody’s tried it. Yeah, obviously what’s in there? Yeah, right. That’s. Interesting. Okay, if you haven’t, i’d say you have an employee working for enough for-profit and and and there’s some child care. You’re going to sit with some child kind of simple. I don’t want to use the term baby sitting because that sounds majority, but some sort of ah monitoring situation, which is not within the normal scope of that employees work. That might be okay for a volunteer for the employees, but certainly the employees can volunteer to do additional work that employees already getting paid for. And where do you see non-profits making mistakes around the volunteer and in turn, well, i get calls from from some of my not non-profits and so, you know, we’ve got we’ve got all these people are in here and, you know, they’re here for, you know, ten or fifteen hours a week doing all this stuff, and i say, really, what’s your first question was where something well, i say, well, what are they doing? Art? Do you have other people that you’re paying to do the same work? And they’re working side by side? Are there are these people already employed by you? Because if they are that’s major red flag on dh again, if they’re duplicating or substituting their substituting for paid employees, that’s, that’s a problem? We’ve got somebody who’s out on a totally leave elearning leave a family medical leave act type of leave, so they’re gonna be out for twelve weeks, so we’re gonna have a volunteer filling for twelve weeks, okay? Do you have a sound of a klaxon in? Here or, you know piela only like that. But that’s just my voice is all we have is scary enough. Thrill enough weak enough as it is. That’s very bad. So paternity leave maternity leave. You can’t have a volunteer filling in. You’re basically saying, i’m going to have somebody do the same work as a paid employee, but i’m not going to pay them. No lost don’t let you do that. All right? I think that’s very interesting. All right, so what do we do, teo? To remedy this. So when your clients are then calling and there, then finding out in this call that they’re they’re running afoul, what do we do next? Well, i tell them aside, i’m obligated to do as an attorney. You should change this and you should start treating people correctly going forward because every day that you’re in violation of the labor laws or the or the tax code is is a new problem. If you change things today or tomorrow and start treating people properly, pay them, then you don’t really have a problem. And by the way, all you have to do to comply with most laws is pay minimum. Wage and you know you don’t you could have people have clerical people making fifteen dollars an hour. I need somebody to fill in, and i’m just going to pay the minimum wage. You can do that, you just can’t pay him nothing. You can’t have them volunteer if they’re not truly bona fide volunteers, can you work out some alternate form of compensation besides, besides money? Like maybe they get some benefits of services from the organization, i guess sort of a barter arrangements, but i’m thing thinking of is that is that possible barter arrangements are legal, but their taxable i don’t represent any barter companies, but i happen to have a close friend who’s involved in a bartering company, and i know that when party a’s trading goods or services with party be, both sides are issued ten, ninety nines and and the company, the bartering company, will report that to the irs. So if you just say instead of paying you seven twenty five an hour, which is the federal minimum wage, it’s hyre in new york state and a lot of other states, but instead of paying you seven twenty five an hour for forty hours, which is with two, two hundred ninety eight dollars a week. I’m going to give you two hundred ninety dollars, worth of free food, that’s that’s a taxable event and frankly, it doesn’t comply with the law. The fair labor standards act, which is the federal law that requires people get paid, requires that you get paid in cash or the equivalent of cash, not in goods and services they’re certain deductions allowed, but not completely excellent. Now we’re talking about federal and state law here, a cz well around the volunteers and interns, absolutely okay, so we’re talking mostly federal, but with the same qualification you need to check about check what the standards are in in your state are you? Are you still pretty well on your way to compliance? If you’re if you’re complying with what the irs requires, like like we said over on the independent contractor side e, i would say, you know, qualified lee, if that’s a word, if you’re complying with the federal rules, you are more than likely quality complying with state rules, but i certainly can’t give that as a guarantee without taking a look at the state rules, understand? Okay, let’s, spend a little a little time. We’re just a couple more minutes on overtime for employees. What is the problem here that you see? Big problem is that certain employees aren’t being paid overtime because employers think they don’t have to. And the biggest fallacy, the biggest myth that i see is and and employers and employees both believed this is that if you paid a salary, you don’t get overtime that’s not true, you need to be paid a salary in order to be considered exempt from overtime, but on ly, certain employees performing certain duties are exempt from overtime the main ones. I don’t talk about those one of those executives, administrators or administrative xero and professionals, so if you’re ah not for-profit ifyou’re ah, counselor, a psychologist, psychiatrist, a professional you’re not in your pay and you’re paid on a salary you’re not entitled to overtime, but you may be a highly highly paid administrative person who works closely with management. You may be exempt from overtime, but if you are a lower levels let’s, say, clerical person lower simply on the orc chart. Not in terms of your worth, but and you’re you don’t. Have it a lot of discretion and control doesn’t matter if you paid on a salary you’re entitled to overtime. If you work more than forty hours in a work week and that’s not waivable, you can’t agree not to take it. You can’t enter into a contract dipped in blood notarized doesn’t matter. You have to get paid for all hours worked at time and a half and not less than time and a half. Pay attention to the labor law. Thomas l, a partner in the law firm of cullen c u l l e n and die kayman d y k m a n in garden city, new york and also in new york city. Thomas l thank you very, very much in my pleasure mine as well. Tony’s take two and irs helps your marketing coming up first. Pursuant, they do full service fund-raising from web based tools for most of our audience small and midsize non-profits two on site campaign counsel for organizations that need that pursuance ah, prospector platform finds donors in your database who are ready for upgrade these are the people who may be giving you twenty dollars a month, and they’re ready to give one hundred a month, or the twenty dollars, a year. You know they’re in there, but they’re not so easy to find. Prospector platform does that it finds thes upgradeable donors so that you’re focused on the people that you should be spending the most time with not people who aren’t willing and able teo upgrade. Therefore you raise more money. You find your upgrade prospects who are hiding in plain sight. Prospector platform is at pursuant dot com my video this week is start your plans giving program here there are lots of reasons why charitable bequests, which our gift in wills are the most popular planned gift. Ah, i tick off a bunch of reasons that make request marketing the way to start your plan giving program and for a small shop that may be where you stop perfectly respectable it’s all in the video and that is at tony martignetti dot com that’s tony’s take two for friday, seventh of august thirty first show of the year here is heat, coach, tomb and irs helps your marketing you touch tomb he’s, a senior manager at wagner cps, he has his mba master of accountancy and is a certified public accountant. He’s also a certified fraud examiner, he works exclusively with tax exempt organizations and oversees the firm’s form nine ninety nationwide preparation practice eat manages wagner’s, new york city office they’re at wagner cps dot com he’s here in the studio to talk about the irs and how it helps your marketing. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. My pleasure, it’s. Cool. Glad you’re in studio um, the form nine ninety this is i thought this was strictly a burden and something to be not avoid it. We can’t avoid it, but there’s something to be done and kind of put in the closet. You don’t think so well, you’re right. A lot ofthe organization leaders thinks that it’s a burden and actually it’s it’s a great opportunity for organizations to show the world that all the good things that they’ve done in the in the year, and then it’s also a good opportunity for them. Um, tell the words how validate their run and in the past this forest scene, justus the farm files it tires and on ly to be shown ah potential donors or anybody coming to your office and basically asking for it. And now it’s vital they available on the web, especially the most common is the guide star. And because it’s out there it it gives an opportunity for organization to the marketing tool ok, and not only guide store, but state attorneys general, a lot of them have them. Can a lot of organizations put the nine ninety on their site themselves? Yes, it’s a sort of transparency, for example, in new york every not-for-profits lee, just with new york that files annual report with the state off new york they’re nine ninety, along with their financial statements, are on their website. So your advice is to think of this as a marketing tool it’s an opportunity? Yes, so if you see it as just a burden, and as most organizations currently do and don’t get enough attention, it can potentially hurt you. So i think about is some organizations for some, organ says is true that the nine nineties seen more than they’ll annual report, but they spent all the time and energy on the annual report make it perfect, but they only spent maybe a fraction off the time to get the nine ninety ready for filing, and we’re gonna have some. Time to talk about this. But you even suggest that people beyond accountant’s contribute to the nine. Ninety their final way. We’ll have a chance to talk about that. That’s. I love that advice. Okay, let’s. Just make sure that everybody understands what we mean. Nine, ninety, there are there are three nine nineties and you’re the expert. So when were you acquainted with the three? Yeah, the. Depending on the size ofthe organization, the organizations can file three different ninety forms. If they are under fifty thousand dollars in revenue. What they can do is they can file a form called nine ninety and which is also known as the postcard return and it’s, just basic information and a statement saying that the revenues were less than fifty thousand dollars. Okay, and with some states like new york, if you are over twenty five, then you have to file the night. Nineties eve, which is the next step. So organizations that are in revenues under two hundred thousand and in assets under five hundred thousand, they can file this form nine ninety easy, which is a shorter form. And the larger organization about the threshold can fire. They have. To file the form nine. Ninety, which is longer so just like we have individual ten forties and ten. Forty easy. Exactly. Nine. Ninety and nine. Ninety easy and then also the nine. Ninety n write really small for the under fifty thousand dollars in revenue. Right? But you raise an interesting point. Sometimes. It’s state regulations that govern which nine. Ninety you have to submit is that is that right? Could you mention new york? Yeah, a certain threshold for the easy. Right. So you have to look to your state and also to the i r s exactly. Okay, exactly. We’re not talking about the nine, ninety filing requirements here. Just i digressed a little bit. We have talked about the nine, ninety in the past. Especially with with jean takagi. So you could find those shows in the past. But we want to focus on the nine, ninety as a marketing tool. And part of your advice is that even if you’re able teo file the shorter form, you might want to do one that’s the next level up. Exactly. It depends on the purpose ofthe how you’re going to use it. For example, if you are a small organization under fifty thousand dollars. You may want to file the nine. Ninety easy to get your nine ninety on guidestar. So or ah, a lot of foundations, for example. They would like you to stop mitt at nine. Ninety easy or a nine. Ninety with grant applications. And, um, that’s. Another reason why you may wanna files piled the longer form in this case. And if you are ah going after donors and even if you are a small organization, if you can show that guarding all these good covenant practices and all these other things is just like, well, run is a large organization. I think it’s also helps it, but it’s getting funds. But if you do not have a purpose, i think it always cost more time and money to file the longer form. So i think it has to be ah, i violated in for individual circumstances. Fair enough, but something to consider. And i just love the different perspective is what i wanted to have you on the show. Different perspective of the nine. Ninety that it’s, you know, as we said, it’s not just no longer just buried anymore, but to look at it as a zoo marketing tool and therefore has to be consistent with all your other the what is the traditional marketing tools, right? Exactly? Yeah, for example, you don’t want to confused the word with sending mixed messages if your annual report is saying one thing and if you’re ninety saying another thing than it confuses people. So that’s one ofthe reasons why certain parts ofthe the nine ninety should not be done prepared by the countenance. It should be prepared by people who is also preparing other other marketing materials. Excellent. Okay, so let’s, get into some of the different place is in the form nine. Ninety, where you see marketing opportunities, what’s the you like thea program service. Accomplishments? Yeah. Where? Where is that? Where will people find that? On the night that could be on the second page off for my love. I love that you’re a nine. Ninety expert. You he doesn’t. He does not have the nine, ninety here in front of him. Which is what, like seventeen pages or something leaves twelve o on the schedule. And then the school was one of my many more starita he does not have a nine. Ninety here in studio with me is so when i asked him, like, what section is it? Andi knows the page, so i okay, you have the expert here, all of that. All right. So, um, you know, your your practices nine nineties. I love it all right. To the program. Service accomplishments. Your program serves accomplished. Mons to page two. Part three. It’s beautiful. Basically, organisations get the chance here. This is like the free marketing or pretended to tell the world the all the great things that you have accomplished in the in the past year and latto off times despite tires. Instructions. This is one place iris helps you market, as you mentioned, is in the instructions i response you to be specific. They want you to use non financial data, but a lot of organizations just they see there’s a burden. So year after year, they repeat the same thing. And the and the nine ninety preparation is buried in their finance department or of the outside consultant who’s doing it right. And they just want to know when it’s done exactly what you can’t fill. You need a number for page four line. Ninety three i don’t know, like, you know, you probably rolling your eyes. Oh, my god, what an amateur question ninety three’s not on page four, for christ sake, but that’s just the thing is just buried until it’s ready for signature basically right? It’s? Not so who? So we can have program officers doing the program service accomplishment section or something like that, right? So basic, the its funding to say this take like a food pantry. It’s one thing to say that you have served meals to low income people in the community and it’s another thing toe give some more specific you can say piela, sir, different fifty thousand different people eighty thousand meals during the years, so it gives more, more basically more impact. And people are seeing this on guide star and on your website. And of course, it needs to be consistent with your other marketing material. Exactly. School what? What else? What other opportunities to see in that section? So i’ll give you another example of that because, like, if you’re a membership organization, try to use it to recruit members and you fear with conferences wanting to say you spent hundred thousand dollars in this conference is another thing to say. Our conference was attended by twelve hundred people. We had sixty different sessions. You can name some off the station, including x y z. And we also had to networking opportunities again like this is anything you can tell tow people join you as a member for a membership organization. And can anything that you see that would attract donors are whoever you are trying to calm me. It’s like. All right, cool. Very good governance. There’s the governance section is this the section on the nine. Ninety relieve the governance? Yeah. There’s a section on ninety nine on the nine. Ninety deaths as out ofthe questions about the governor inspection number part part six off your nine nine beautiful love, the basically in that part, it’s asking out ofthe question some of these questions, such as, um, whistle blower policy and document destruction policy. These can be mandated by others. Other ah um pre-tax sarbanes oxley. Examples on the other set is dahna lorts state law, right? And new york will start mandating certain certain policies there as well. And some off thes policies are very easy to add up. So their templates out there it’s not a huge burden, and i encourage every every organization, if do they do not have a policy out there, just go look for a sample adapted and checked the box yes to show that they’re they’re well, well run and well covered and thiss foot reduced the potential all at risk and it’s also important to use that affection toe basically solicit new board members because one off the users off this maybe perspective what members looking at your nine ninety to see if this is our organs and joe, i want to join this organization, are they so they know what they’re thinking? It might be exposed to any risk by joining terms. All right, we gotta go out for a break. You’re gonna do some more live listener love there’s so much i got to squeeze him in tuscaloosa, alabama welcome live. Listen, i’d love to you. I don’t think you’ve been with us before tuscaloosa welcome and jersey city, new jersey it’s, the birthplace of my my dad. He was born in greenville hospital, jersey city, new jersey, and langley, bilich british columbia. You’re back with us live listener left. All of you. We got some or stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martin. Any non-profit radio ideo. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s, go abroad with live listener love belgium children, we can’t see your city! I thought that was a pretty open society. They’re belgium, but you’re you’re blocked but welcome live listen love to you, let’s, go to china, where i send ni hao to shanghai, chengdu, korea, multiple listeners in korea, as always, including soul, anya, haserot and japan, multiple listeners tokyo, akashi and others konnichiwa and, of course, podcast pleasantries to those of you listening in the time shift wherever you may be, ninety five hundred of you podcast pleasantries to you yeah, let’s, let’s keep talking about the governance section is that this is not a free form narrative section like the program service accomplishments, it it certain parts ofthe it are free form, for example, one off the question there is, like what’s. Your policy is to review the night ninety so in there you can explain, like how what process off leaving tonight ninety like does every boardmember sees the nine ninety who who looks at it, who prepares its who reviews it and how it gets wild, the other free form part. Is the conflict of interest policy. You can have different types. And who’s who’s monitoring. It goes who’s looking at it. And another part is the determination off the executive compensation. So what’s the policy around that looking at comparables like, do you have independent comity? Looking at it and documenting this decision? There are some some freeform parts over then within governments. Governance? Of course. Right. And we have talked about, i think, all those subjects that you just mentioned with with jean takagi when we’ve spent time on the appropriate governance and oversight. So this is a perfect dovetail. Um, how about you have something about the statement of functional expenses? Where will we find that? If we if we want to go into the nine ninety, um, that would be now little people. Nine off the ninety basically and, um, statement functional expenses. I believe you covered overhead. Mitt in in your previous shows, we have the we had the three signers of the overhead myth. That was on september sixteenth. The ceos of charity navigator, guidestar and better business bureau wise giving alliance. Yeah. So basically, i want to refer to that which is a great point they made and ah, out ofthe not-for-profits are too worried about their program service percentage and that, um, that they want to put like, as they reflect, i guess, everything they can in the program, and they should know that if it’s correct, so but sometimes like it gets to a point where they wanna look at things which is more like gray and, you know, they have the natural incentive to put more into program and not in management, general fund-raising and that doesn’t necessarily reflect the truth and ah, that’s area um, it’s sophisticated donor-centric e-giving and i ninety can tell that certain things are not correct there because certain things such as an audit, it has to be a hundred percent management general, accounting and audit is that, um so i think, it’s another point important here is that that schedule is done correctly so that a potential donor funders looking at it shouldn’t question anything accurate, so get on dh that one is the key. That was the whole message of the overhead myth letter is don’t feel you have to devote everything to to program at the expense of overhead, which can be very very important. Tisbury. So you have sophisticated people looking at your nine ninety, and you’re thinking of it as marketing. Keep that. Keep that in mind. We have to. We have just a couple minutes left. There’s a part of the nine. Ninety that you call a playground? Yes, that is that. That would be schedule. Oh, that’s a place where you can put anything that an organization can beat anything they want in there, so ah, i would use it as a, um what is it called? What is schedule? Oh, called, huh? I think it’s just called a schedule a it’s, like a supplementary information thinkit’s supplementary in formation. And basically, i would encourage organizations toe explain anything that might look unusual on the on the on the nine. Nineteen. Okay, for example, let’s say if they are starting a capital campaign and in that initial year they wouldn’t necessarily have to revenue yet, but they have all these fund-raising expenses. So if they’re fund-raising expense ratio is unusually high and this might be a place to explain that they’re going through the skips, the campaign and that they they’re also informing the public that they’re doing this. So it’s another place toe to use that for that. So outstanding, really interesting perspective on form nine ninety thank you very much. Thank you for my pleasure. You duitz doom senior manager at wagner cpas manager of their new york city office there at wagner cpas dot com next week will mccaskill, author of doing good? Well, no, i’m sorry. Doing well better now doing good, better that’s the book doing good better he’ll be on for the hour if you missed any part of today’s show finding on tony martignetti dot com where in the world else would you go? I did not forget live listen love all the live listeners who are out there can’t name you by city and state were pre recorded today, obviously, but you know the love is going out to live listeners podcast pleasantries, everybody listening in the time shift over ten thousand of you so glad you’re with us and it was very important affiliate affections to our affiliate listeners in stations throughout the country affections out to the affiliate listeners pursuant, find your upgrade prospects with prospector platform you’ll raise boatloads more money, and i’m not talking rowboats or kayaks. Or doory skiffs. We’re talking three masted schooners full of money. Pursuant dot com. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez at susan chavez. Dot com on our music is by scott stein. Thank you, scotty. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and degree. 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Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way, way.