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Nonprofit Radio for May 1, 2020: Real Estate & Racial-Equity DEI

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My Guests:

Jane Brody: Real Estate

How have markets been impacted by the pandemic? What do you need to think about before your next move and when should you start your thinking? Jane Brody is executive director at Vicus Partners.




Tristan Penn: Racial-Equity DEI
Tristan Penn shares how Coronavirus has disproportionately hurt Black and Indigenous people. We also talk about dismantling white power structures that you may not realize exist inside your nonprofit. Tristan is NTEN‘s community engagement and equity manager. (This is part of our 20NTC coverage.)



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[00:00:12.24] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio

[00:02:23.24] spk_1:
big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. This is our first ever show in 487 that is not produced in studio. I put it together using a dizzy audacity and zoom. Let’s see how I did. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I throw is Anthill asthma. If I saw that you missed today’s show Real estate, how have markets being impacted by the pandemic? What do you need to think about before your next move and when should you start your thinking? Jane Brody is executive director at Vikas Partners and Rachel Equity D I. Justin Pen shares how Corona virus has disproportionately hurt black and indigenous people. We also talk about dismantling white power structures that you may not realize exist inside your non profit trust. In his end, tens community engagement and equity manager, this is part of our 20 and TC coverage. Tony Steak, too. Take a breath, were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen. Two dot ceo Here is real estate. It’s a real pleasure to welcome to the show. Jane Brody She is executive director at Vikas Partners in New York City. Before Vikas, she helped launch a mentoring program serving over 10,000 Children and a foster care program to help over 8000 teenagers in the system make the transition to independence. She’s been a consultant to Ben and Jerry’s UNICEF, the American Red Cross, Coca Cola and the Special Olympics. She’s done stand up comedy company is at Vikas partners dot com. Jane Brody Welcome to non profit radio.

[00:02:29.84] spk_2:
Thanks, tony. Great to be here.

[00:02:31.52] spk_1:
Real pleasure to have you tell me about your stand up comedy. I’ve done some of that. What’s what were your gigs? Where did you do?

[00:02:38.54] spk_2:
Well, I took a little class, and I always like to do stuff that kind of scares me a little bit and challenges may. So then, after I did the class and we did kind of Gotham startup, I did a couple open mic nights and I was invited back, and I liked it a lot. But apparently the owner of the club who booked me said, You have to bring 10 friends next time and next time. So I didn’t wanna have to, like, burden people with asking them to continue to watch me and follow May. And I realized very quickly that my humor was very regional, like I understood, you know, New York comedy specific. But it’s much started to be able to be funny and all the markets and how good the major comics are about sort of national humor, right? I enjoy it. I recently just improv class because I like doing those kinds of things. I think it makes you fresh and it challenges you.

[00:04:14.57] spk_1:
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Um, I’ve done stand up comedy and improv. I took a bunch of improv classes that the Upright Citizens Brigade and I took some stand up comedy classes with this Manhattan comedy school. Um, I’ve played Gotham, but only, you know, like you. It sounds like I do the new talent shows where Oh, you got a visitor there. Okay. Um, do talent shows? Yeah. We bring hers. Brings you gotta bring 10 people or 12 people or 15 people or something in orderto in orderto Get your stage time. Yeah, but I agree improv especially. You know, it’s very good for speaking confidence. I loved it. I think it helps me a lot. I like those. Did you did you try regional comedy outside New York? Is that how you?

[00:04:19.04] spk_2:
No. But we discovered that afford median income. Who’s been doing it for 15 years? And he’s told us to the story how he lived in his pinto, basically and traveled from city to city, Pittsburgh, all the small markets and when market his his bits than his time and then he’d go to the next city in the next city. I was like, I’m not gonna do that.

[00:05:19.94] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s hard to. It’s hard to make money at stand up comedy very few people to, and it’s true. You know, I’ve never even thought of it, cause I the only place I’ve ever done stand up is in New York City. I’ve never wanted to be regional or national, but absolutely true. I don’t I’m not sure people would get me outside outside the clothes. Maybe Westchester that would be about as far. Um, right. So So let’s talk about real estate. And, you know, our listeners are small and mid sized nonprofits. Um, now you you know, the New York City New your New York City market Are you able to generalize like to the t broader than that when we talk about

[00:05:22.42] spk_2:
course. Definitely. I think the same. Planning things and considerations Air true for nonprofits nationally. And I on the international board with other tenant rep brokers internationally. So I always used to having conversations.

[00:05:38.41] spk_1:
Okay, Okay, um and so what are we seeing? Real estate wise around the pandemic. What’s the impact

[00:05:47.80] spk_2:
of certainly some things that you would think there are a lot more sub lets that are hitting the market transactions air down. In New York City of, for instance, it’s been down 40% in the first quarter. I think that it’s gonna be a very rich landlord reaching for us market more than you know, a tighter market where Layla is gonna be a little more difficult. So they’ll be more flexibility

[00:06:16.90] spk_1:
when we come out of this. And people are looking again for real estate. That’s encouraging. On the 10 inside that there’s gonna be that kind of flexibility. Like you said, you know, landlords reaching out, you think.

[00:06:23.87] spk_2:
And also I would say the other great. A huge amount of space that will be available will be retail. It’s gonna be a lot longer for retail to come back because of restaurants and all the other stores. That just a change of pattern of how people can access those spaces is gonna be very different.

[00:06:44.24] spk_1:
Um, when we you know, if any organization is thinking about changing real estate or just use, I guess maybe even just using their existing real estate when when we end up going back to offices. What other considerations there? How do you think things have changed in terms of office space usage?

[00:07:03.50] spk_2:
I think some of the considerations of the large brand tech companies, household names, air changing the amount of physical space per employee so typically was 175 square feet per employee. Now it’s going up to 300 square feet. Does that mean that they’ll be taking more space? I don’t think necessarily. I think people will be varying worked times and changing how many people can use space to a different time. They’ll also be technological impacts. For instance, people will be relying more on their handheld devices than that, necessarily having centralized computer systems, touch lists, entry to spaces, booking of conference rooms, anything where there’s high touch experiences. I think also just the way that people interact. There won’t be as many large group meetings, and the way that we work together will be very different. For a while, you

[00:08:06.40] spk_1:
mentioned booking conference rooms. What you mean? Like, if there’s a, uh, there’s booking a reservation system outside the room and lots of people touch it, is that

[00:08:16.84] spk_2:
it actually, or, you know, touchless check in. Sometimes people hand you and I have had to check in when you go into a space for security. So I think some of those things will be rethought and they’ll be more innovations along the way that we work together in a virtual way. And I think people’s ability to work at home and the office will be expanded. We’ve all adjusted, and we might have several waves of what’s gonna come ahead. We don’t really know.

[00:08:44.04] spk_1:
You know

[00:08:44.26] spk_2:
what I think we’re all anxious to get back to work and be together.

[00:08:47.85] spk_1:
You said, um, typical was 175 square feet per per employee. I don’t that’s that. That sounds like a lot, but is that the average is the average cubicle 175 square feet of space?

[00:09:26.94] spk_2:
Uh, roughly. I mean, there’s lots of different ways they call it bench seating. If you’ve seen lots of staff in small desks in front of them, that could be a slow is 100 per person or 75 square feet per person. I think it’s gonna be more generous than it was before, and we’d have large bullpen seating with lots of people in rows. I think that’s gonna look different. And also, I think they’ll be more spacing between desks and the physical nous of space changed.

[00:09:33.85] spk_1:
Yeah, I e. You know, you said, you think it’ll it could go as high as like 300 square feet per person, which is almost almost double the 1 75

[00:09:43.10] spk_3:

[00:09:50.74] spk_2:
not sure are non profit clients conduce that as as generously, Yeah, but that’s what I’m getting at right. I think it depends on what are non province use the space for. So that’s part of determining what the next steps for the non profits are. You do you have to have a large H Q like mothership. Do you need small offices? And in the various communities you’re serving, what will be the physical footprint of the space that you need to have some fulfill? Your mission, I think, is kind of part of the new sort of long term strategic planning into Cove it and in general, for non profits.

[00:12:18.54] spk_1:
It’s time for a break wegner-C.P.As so that your 9 90 gets filed on time so that your audit is finished on time so that you get the advice oven experienced partner You, JJ, Doom and Affirm that has a nationwide non profit practice with thousands of audits under its belt. Wegner-C.P.As dot com. Now back to real estate with Jane Brody, and I see I fix that mistake with Jane Brody’s name. This audacity is so you can get so compulsive with it. It’s so alluring to take out every, um and on then. But if I if I take all those out, you’re gonna wonder. Who the hell am I listening to? Where’s tony? Sums and ours and his mistakes. So I’m not taking out everything. That is a slight imperfection. Some some things. You know what? Some things have got to stay the same. Every damn thing cannot change that. We’re accustomed to its It’s doing settling. I mean, there’s enough changes already to non profit radio. I’m keeping in the arms in the eyes and the okays. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I’m keeping those in, um, there. I’m keeping that in. Some things have just gotta remain the same. I am not perfect in the way I talk. And by now, after 487 shows, you don’t expect me to be so the hell with audacity, ease, intricacies and perfect ability. I’m not taking advantage of it all anyway. It’s time for a break. No. Anyway, here’s more back to real estate with Jane Brody. When should we start talking to our existing landlord about whether we’re going to stay or about renewing? How early should that conversation start?

[00:12:34.84] spk_2:
It’s really two pronged approach. A lot of people think Oh, I haven’t talked to my landlord and they go towards very close to the end of the least. That’s not really the best model because it leaves you kind of trapped, dealing directly with your Lambert. What the best approach is a year, two years, a year and 1/2 before your lease is expiring, kind of figuring out what you really need the space or and what the purpose and function of your space. You have the right spaces. It’s the right size, or you’re in the right market in the right community and then engaging a broker which has no cost to you. The commission’s air baked into the deal, and what you do is you have your broker find you at least two or three options that you like. So you go on on tours, understand the market, see what your space would cost across the street, in the same area you like to be in, you get a negotiated, non binding letter of intent that your broker can work with you on. And then once you have a deal in place, then you can go to your existing landlord. We call it kind of a stocking horse in the trade, which is here’s something that I could get if I have to move, can you beat it? can you match it? What can you do with this existing opportunity against what? Staying in place? Most people want to renew and stay in place. And your broker can also negotiate that with your landlord. So you wanna have sort of two tracks. The best is at least a year and 1/2 a year into place because it takes probably a month to find the right space. You negotiate the letters of intent, take you at least a month to do the lease, and then if you have a build out, that’s four or five months. So that’s a good amount of time. Plus, everybody has Stakeholders may have you the board involvement the various teams in your organization. Does this fit the needs of the organization, and then you have to kind of engage everyone in the process.

[00:14:56.64] spk_1:
So where you call a stalking horse, I will just call leverage, right? You want to have. You won’t have another deal in hand that you can present to your current landlord and say, Look, you know, I could move, but everybody knows you don’t really want to move right. I mean, it’s a big hassle moving, sure, but you want to have some leverage over the over the person? Absolutely. So I can see why you got to start, like a year and 1/2 in advance,

[00:15:19.11] spk_2:
or I just want to make one other point. Tony. Some people are afraid to challenge their landlord because my landlord’s so great. He’s been a donor to my organization, and I think, uh, I think sometimes nonprofits are intimidated by that, But I people very much treated as separation of church in ST and ST you make a donation to something you believe in and on the other part of the isle you can certainly negotiate a least one has nothing to do with the other.

[00:15:31.87] spk_1:
And you made the point that a broker is free to the tenant, right?

[00:16:13.13] spk_2:
Yes. Okay, that Brooklyn tony that that works from a from a Do you else to end point is commission is baked into the transaction, and it’s a very old schtum. So in every transaction, there’s a landlord broker, an attendant rap broker. If you don’t have a tenant rep broker, and basically you’re just handing the condition completely over to the landlord broker, and I like to kind of talk about in terms of the wars. Wouldn’t wanna have one lawyer kind of representing both sides of the equation. You can. So you look for somebody who understands your work in your mission and can act on your behalf and, well, looking at the same data. So that’s another thing people think. Well, let me hire Let me get three or four people running around for me, but it doesn’t really work that well because we all look a co star, which is a proprietary database that we all subscribed. Teoh.

[00:16:31.94] spk_1:
Okay, so everybody’s got access to the same listings. What? You said that in any community, that’s nation

[00:16:37.28] spk_2:
yet it’s national, its international. Okay,

[00:16:39.91] spk_1:
okay. All right, So now all right. So we know we should start, like, maybe two years, a year and 1/2 in advance of the expiration of our least. So now what do we need to be thinking about in terms of our new space Or, you know, our existing space?

[00:16:55.26] spk_2:
Well, one thing that I think is really important is a good match with right land board. So I have just a couple of examples that really kind of illustrate this one is this organization I worked with? They they, uh, took in donations for babies. 03 year olds. They would get strollers and books and clothing, toys, and people would come with you could imagine garbage bags full of treasures. And then they would come to the building full of all their stuff in their hands, cribs everything and come into the lobby and go up in the elevators and make the donation on. And then the clients would come with not themselves or just their baby. They would bring five or six people because, you know, day care is a huge challenge for low income families. So a particular Landler didn’t like all that additional foot traffic,

[00:17:47.69] spk_1:
right? Probably bags of stuff being hold onto the elevator to Right?

[00:19:07.24] spk_2:
Right. So you’re crowding my other tenants. You’re crowding my elevator, you’re holding things up. So I was able to find them a landlord that adores what they do. They actually make donations, they help them with all kinds of support. And I recently ran into the landlord at an event, and they’re like Jane finding more tenants like this. We love what they dio and I have another case where I worked with this organization called Chess in the Schools. Wonderful organization had been in the building 17 years, and they had this, like, huge 12,000 foot space that was shaped like a pizza pot. I mean, how somebody designed this thing with slices as the various zones, but it was really expensive rent for them. They had downsized, but they had this, like, really strange requirement that once a week, 80 young people high school kids came to play chest, so they needed a certain kind of space. The landlord worked so hard to keep them in the building. He he helped me find the space within the building that was 4500 feet, renovated the space for them. And then there was no lag way leaving their old space and moving out of two years earlier their existing lease and gave them a brand new lease going 10 years, four. Very unusual. So if you get lucky with those kind of connections, so I always try to find landlords that are the right match for clients, I think it makes a big difference,

[00:19:28.74] spk_1:
and you have to be upfront about what your work is so if there are gonna be families coming through, You know, with kids, you know, the class A space landlord, you know, may not want that because they don’t want Children in the lobbies or if it’s gonna be folks with disabilities. And you know, some landlords may not be at all sensitive to that, and others may be completely embracing of that. So yes, true, we’ll be upfront about what kind of traffic you’re gonna create if it’s not strictly an office environment.

[00:20:13.39] spk_2:
And that’s really educating your broker to really understand your organization. And I kind of think of it as kind of putting that mission on my back and trying to, like, think about what that executive director or board member needs. I’m working with an adoption agency right now and one of the things that was really important to them. And I really thought a lot about this when I when I speak about this particular client, is they have birth mothers who are, you know, young women. Sometimes there are, you know, compromise situations. They’re kind of a lot of anxiety around giving your baby up for adoption and going to like a mainstream building where you’ve got turnstiles. Intense security screenings would be could be intimidating. So finding them a sort of quieter block building where they could walk in themselves, created in the best way. And also there’s confidentiality issues. There’s programming. So how can it be very front facing an appropriate for that particular client and meets the needs of the organization?

[00:21:14.64] spk_1:
Okay, yeah, I see. Just maybe just even giving their name at a security desk is, I don’t know, intimidating or off putting to a clientele like that

[00:22:20.64] spk_2:
or shelling a driver’s license or so really kind of matching what you’re trying to accomplish in this space. And I also think understanding what you’re using the space for Israeli import, you know? Are you doing classrooms or you’re doing training? Are you doing touchdowns? Space for your feet fieldworkers? I had one particular client who ah, was an arts organization. After School Arts Organization. It was created in the seventies when all the arts organizations were taken. All the art teachers were taken out of the school systems, so these two former teachers started organization and they hire freelance artists to come into schools, you know, lovely idea. Filling a need and then the schools would contract for these part time workers. This and they kind of grew the organization unwto through little tiny apartments that they were renting in the community in the city. So this executive director said, let me create one central place for the organization, a place where the artist can come, receive their materials, have training, have collaboration. And it’s really changed the environment of the organization and the way that the employees and the artist kind of bond on having a ton, equal footing and a connection in a place to be together.

[00:22:44.04] spk_1:
All right, Jane, um, so let’s talk about some common mistakes that you see that non profits, you know, can hopefully avoid,

[00:23:27.94] spk_2:
I would say typically timing, not having enough period of time to think about your space. So we talked about a year and 1/2 or two years. I’ve had people call May I’ve got a month left to my least. What should I dio? Okay, that’s certainly not doesn’t put you in the driver’s seat, right? Making sure that you have all the stakeholders involved in the process. The development people, your board, your your staff, understanding what you’re trying to accomplish in your space search being isolated and just working through the operations people. That’s really important. Another important part is that you could afford the space and that it fits with your budget. I mean, certainly Cove. It has been a real lesson and understanding the financial impact of things like rent to those air key mistakes.

[00:23:44.91] spk_1:
These mistakes, we’re gonna be reduced because we’re raising people’s consciousness about about them. All right, Um, all right, so I mean, I love it. You hit this a couple times, but you said that you can’t stress enough the importance of starting early. So you you have time. It’s not a crisis. You’re not trying to find space and negotiate a deal in three or four months, which may not even be doable,

[00:25:35.69] spk_2:
I think also, I want to mention just another example. I worked with a food pantry early on, and it was really interesting this particular organization, great organization, New York Common Pantry. And they had received a grant to help senior citizens receive food distribution through senior citizen centers. So it was a new program. They were gonna have vans leaving the central location going out to these new communities and providing food. So when we started looking for space and understanding what they could do, you started learning a lot about crazy things. Like if you get all this food and then your new distributed the weight of the food and the canned goods and all the foods that will be distributed could be really important on the weight of a building, so being in a second floor wouldn’t work. So we ended up being in a ground floor small warehouse, and then they had some other programs. Programmatic needs counseling. Nutrition program really split how they ended up solving the real estate. We had office in one location and food distribution in the vans and a different area. So sometimes the way that you solve the program programmatic needs can look different because of the the whole state weight breaks out. So it’s all pen of a learning experience some time

[00:25:42.44] spk_1:
and creative creative experience. All right. Jane Brody, she’s executive director and Vikas Partners. They’re at Vikas partners dot com. Jane. Thanks so much for being guest. Thanks for sharing.

[00:25:51.79] spk_2:
Thanks, tony. Be safe.

[00:27:57.30] spk_1:
We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software their accounting product. Denali is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. You have a free 60 day trial on offer. It’s on the listening landing page. That’s the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now time for Tony’s Take two. Take a breath, take a breath. Relax. You need to take care of yourself, not just once. Try to do each day, sit with yourself and clear your head. Focus on your breath. Meditate, nap. Whatever is good for you. Be good to yourself in a healthy, soothing, calming, loving way. There’s so much shit going down, and so much is being asked of you That is strange and difficult. Take care of yourself. Do it each day. You deserve it. You need it. Please take care of yourself, and that is Tony’s. Take two. Now it’s time for racial equity. D I welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020 non profit technology conference. You know the conference had to be canceled, but you also know we are persevering virtually. We’re sponsored at 20 NTC by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Martin for a free 60 day trial. My guess now is just in pen. He is a community engagement and equity manager at n 10. The host of 20 NTC. Justin, welcome.

[00:27:58.74] spk_4:
Hi. Thanks for having me.

[00:28:00.60] spk_1:
It’s great to have you. It’s a pleasure. I’m glad we’re able to work this out. Virtually thanks so much. Yes. No, you’re You’re well and safe ing in Portland, Oregon.

[00:28:25.54] spk_4:
You know, I am. It’s some, you know, we’re all living a very new reality, So it’s definitely something that, uh, was kind of new to me. I worked 2 to 3 days a week, um, from home. But now I’m doing it all day. Every day

[00:28:33.04] spk_1:
of misery. Were maybe six years. Hopefully not seven, but maybe five for six days. Um, so you had really interesting topic? Ah, critical. Critical announces you what worked for us. A critical reflection of intends racial equity rooted. D I work? Yeah, I think this is obviously your responsibility at and then as

[00:28:50.28] spk_4:
that is, Okay,

[00:29:28.14] spk_1:
um and I’m still, you know, this D I is I’m 58 years old, so I didn’t grow up with this. Yeah, I’ve been thinking about it, talking about it, struggling with it for and, you know, maybe not long enough, but three for 3 to 5 years, I’d say some ran. Um, so I have a pretty basic question, but I want to get it off my chest. What off, Mike? I wanted I want to get it out. Why? Why do you have to say racial equity rooted D I work, right? I would think that that’s just subsumed in D I

[00:31:10.70] spk_4:
Yeah. You know, I think there’s a lot of things, you know, I wanna give space because we only have 25 minutes. I could definitely talk for 25 minutes just specifically about this. However, I do think because we center all of our, um, racial our excuse me, our d I work with rooted in racial equity. It’s important to us because I think at the end of the day, there are a lot of systemic and oppressive things that have happened not only in this country, but also, um, within the nonprofit sector that really do effect people of color first. So, for example, there’s this idea of intersectionality, which does happen and is a thing. But also, like, you know, you can be a, um, a white woman who is just and still get a lot more privilege than a black woman who was disabled. So, um, so that’s just a just a bit of it all, too. And that’s why we center it with racial equity to explicit. Absolutely, Absolutely. And that’s not to say that it’s a binary where we are saying that racial equity above everything else and we’re not we’re gonna brush everything else off the table. There are other identities that, um, people identify with that air just is important. And, um, they they have their own, you know, marginalization within their own communities to, and those need to be honored as well to and considered. And, um, really makes in and made sure that they’re being prioritized during certain circumstances.

[00:31:47.94] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, well, you know, we we may end up going more than 25 minutes, because I Something’s according to meet it. What about this? This pandemic. How do you feel? Like this is highlighting. We’re gonna get there are. Actually two things I wanna ask you is exacerbating. Yeah, I want to start with almost over the highlight. How do you feel? Like this pandemic and the country and I’m focused on Let’s focus on the U. S. Yeah, uh, that has the reaction to it. They’re working from home. The we could talk about the s. My gosh, I could see how we usually go. 2125 minutes.

[00:31:52.27] spk_4:

[00:32:03.44] spk_1:
about the loan programs? Absolutely. Wherever you wanna go, How do you feel? Like the pandemic and the response to it have highlighted. Yeah, inequities.

[00:34:11.38] spk_4:
What a great question. Wow. So I can only speak from personal experience or just the identities that I bring to the table. So, um, I am I’m half black and I’m half Navajo. So my dad is black, and my mom is Navajo. And so, um, being that bi racial professional in the non non profit sector world, um, you know, as a black man and as a Navajo man as well, you know, you see these things and you have these very direct ties to the communities with which you navigate in and reside in the one thing that comes to mind is, um you know, all of my Navajo relatives. So I have a lot of member who relatives that are still on the rez on the New Mexico side. Um And so, um, one thing that’s really striking to me is that, you know, the last I mean, the numbers change every day, right? With these covert 19 cases. Um however, the last time I read it, um, it was, um per capita, the amount of cases after New York and after New Jersey, the next, um, the next amount of cases was the Navajo Nation under. Really? Yeah. And so that’s I mean, there’s their cases per capita, and I want to make sure that that portion Exactly. And so that’s really concerning because I have family on the rez. And also, um, it’s, um It kind of it speaks to the, um the years of historic, um, oppression And, um, you know, genocide that has happened with it within indigenous communities. Um, and how there has been, um, baked into, um, you know, communication and treaties and promises broken promises by the federal government. Why? This has kind of made, you know, this situation that we have now on the Navajo reservation. And I’m sure, um uh, among other tribes, something that is really, really pressing right now, there’s probably accounts everywhere. And so I just

[00:34:27.37] spk_1:
health care. Health care has been a serious negative problem. Serious problem on the indigenous peoples for generations, right? The health care on the reservations.

[00:36:01.23] spk_4:
And so it just ends up being something that, like, I hold near and dear to my heart because I think of all my family members that are on the rez and live on the Navajo Nation. Um and also just, you know, um, the the way in which, um, you know, the the federal government supports or doesn’t support the Navajo Nation, never being its own sovereign nation. And so I think there’s, um um this is really kind of, like, pushed everything to the forefront of what is wrong with the systems. And I think it also, you know, on the other side of things, you know, you see now as that this data is coming out, those who have passed away and died to come, Teoh, you know this illness, um, the majority of them are black people. And so that’s also concerning for me, Um, that, you know, I think that there is, um, something to be said for that. And I think, you know, that kind of also lends Teoh. There are people who aren’t able to, you know, work from home. They have to be out there to. And so I think it’s very interesting in a data point that, um as hopefully when all of this subsides will be able to look at and really sit through and figure out and find I mean, I would be willing to put money on, you know that. You know, people of color indigenous communities, black people and indigenous communities probably were disproportionately affected by this. This pandemic

[00:36:09.24] spk_1:
in terms of health care, unemployment, yes. Businesses closed, I

[00:36:35.13] spk_4:
write. And also systemic and systemic. You know, an institutionalized racism that has policies, practices that our priority not prioritizing them, or are looking over these communities to as well. If it goes past the health care and Maurin two systems as well, it’s not built for them. Um, because it wasn’t with them in mind. It was with white folks in line,

[00:38:25.22] spk_1:
right? Right. Okay. Yeah, we could We could certainly go hours on that. Yeah. Um, all right. I’m yeah, and I don’t And so I mentioned, you know, highlighting and exacerbating. I Yeah, I think when When the dust settles and we look at disparities in outcomes, we’re gonna find immigrants and indigenous folks disproportionately impacted in terms of, uh, well, yeah, the institutional racism that you’re you’re bringing out and just in terms of the more surface store things that that, you know, like health care and help get unemployment lost jobs. And I mean from I have a small business. And so I see the way those that loan program is, at least in these opening weeks of it or whether I should say we’re recording on according on Tuesday, April 21st and so far, the opening program the opening, uh, indications around the S B A. Programs are that, you know, big businesses air getting it, yes, and most likely predominantly wiped. Run. Yeah, and and small businesses that I think Congress intended it to help or are falling short. At least that’s yeah, that’s what’s happening in this first tranche of 250 billion. We’ll see what happens when there’s the absolutely next the next level, but I’m sure you’re right. You know, the because the system is rigged against and built in favor of Yeah,

[00:38:26.63] spk_4:
Yeah, yeah,

[00:38:28.16] spk_5:
yeah, yeah. All right.

[00:38:30.62] spk_3:

[00:38:32.02] spk_1:
so we’ve been 20 minutes already, and we haven’t even gotten to only about it away. About the time you gotta you gotta host that. I wanted to talk about the pandemic in these terms

[00:38:42.27] spk_4:
or yeah,

[00:39:16.89] spk_1:
I haven’t done anything, but also so thank you. Yeah, but don’t worry about the time that you got a lackluster host to deal with. It’s my my shortcoming. Um all right, let’s talk some. Let’s talk about in 10. Yeah. Um What? Ah, well, all right. Before we get into the details of in 10 how do you how? Open someone start this conversation in their own organization? Yeah, I feel like it’s systemically institutionally. Wait, Run. Well, that would be out. They wouldn’t feel it. That would be obvious. But wait, wait, wait. Policies. Yeah. Um, how did they kick off this conversation?

[00:39:23.82] spk_4:
You know, tony, that’s a really great question, too. And there’s a variety of ways to bring it up. Teoh, I just got done reading a really good book. Actually, that Amy shared with me. Um, about how Teoh Stopgap

[00:39:38.86] spk_1:
award and simple words are social media and technology contributor here on non profit radio. Okay, just for the for the 45 people out of the 13,000 who may not know who any simple

[00:42:00.09] spk_4:
Yes, She gave me a book about institutionalized racism and institutionalized bias on how that manifests itself in the workplace and more importantly, what you can do about it. So it’s one thing toe like, recognize it and be like, This is wrong. And this is happening. Another thing to start, um, to start bringing it up within your organization is at the root of your question is you know, what can you do? And there’s a variety of things that you do. I think the first thing that comes to mind, um, that I read in this book was the book. It’s called Recognizing Institutional bias. Um, I may have to, like, follow back up with you. I know it’s something like that, but I breathe through it, um, so I’ll I’ll give you the title of it later. Um, but she um But this book talks about, you know, it’s one thing. Excuse me to go about it as an individual, but it is. I mean, it’s kind of like one of those things where safety in numbers and so being able tohave an ally or someone within the organization that you can also push this work or were, too. So it means asking some hard questions, and it means asking some hard questions of yourself as well to. And I think that’s the key point. Um, as well is realizing that, you know, we all have implicit, um, biases that we have in our head. Um, you know, when we think of cats, we think of cats, as you know, very. You know, Castile. They kind of take care of themselves. Some cats aren’t like that, though, you know, And so I think going into it, we have to really check those ideas about certain people, people from communities that have been informed, those implicit biases. We have to make sure that we’re good with ourselves or not even that we’re good with them and that we’ve reconciled them but that were aware of. So I think that was a really big take away point for me. Um, you know I’m 1/2 black man. I’m a Navajo man. Um, I have implicit bias, you know, everyone does. And so I think being able to understand that before pushing this work is really key to this. You have to really kind of strip yourself bare and understand that, um in order to push this work forward, you’re going to have to do some self work as well.

[00:42:17.87] spk_1:
Implicit biases. Is that not the same as stereotypes?

[00:42:20.30] spk_4:
Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Some people call stereotypes. Yeah,

[00:42:24.77] spk_1:
you gotta You gotta be conscious of your own stereotypes.

[00:42:58.50] spk_4:
Exactly. We don’t politicize. Yeah. And sometimes those stereotypes are very obvious to you. You you think about them. But also, there are some that are very deep within your subconscious that come out without knowing, too. And so then it’s one of those things where you start. You have to be reflective and think, Gosh, where is this coming from? Where is the stock coming from? And where is this belief coming from? And really dig down deep into it. Um, I think another thing to that, um, when you push this type of work forward or are start to prioritize this work you have to think about you and I were talking about this earlier is, you know, the climate of the organization. Um And where in what? In the environment of the organization, some organizations have their heels in the ground, and I have experienced organizations like that where their heels air in the ground and they’re like, we have a D I committee that meets once a month and that’s it. Check box checked. We’re done with it. We don’t have to do anymore work. We don’t have Teoh, you know, examine the policies and practices in the environment that we put forward with an organization. So that’s a non starter for a lot of people. And in those

[00:43:37.63] spk_1:
organisms, on top of that r R D I committee, it has black black people in it. Yeah, so we’ve We were an equitable organization. Exactly to blacks on our equity committee.

[00:46:01.08] spk_4:
Exactly. And so I think those are things that I have experienced those there is half organizations where, you know, that’s the thing we call tokenism within. Let I wouldn’t even say within the d I world. That’s just tokenism, period with in whatever world you want to live in. And so that’s That’s a tokenism thing. And sadly, I’ve fallen victim to that in my earlier years of, you know, when I was a young professional of, you know, really being eager and wanting to please white leadership, Um, and realizing that I wasn’t pushing forward d I work. I was not contributing to it, but I was a victim of it. Um, and it was a system much larger than the the actual work that I was putting forward, and it was really sad, and I had to remove myself from those situations and those token izing situations. There was once a month d I meetings where I was that the token eyes per person of color that was having to bear my soul about some very, very deep and emotional topics. And so I think a lot of times, you know, you have to as a person who’s pushing this forward specifically, and I’m you know, I say this directly to people of color and organizations and non profit organizations who are the one to, you know, third person of color in the organization. I mean that that’s a big, big hill to climb to, and it’s not insurmountable. But what I will say is, you know, you have to be able to check in with yourself as a person of color and as a, um, as a professional of color, Um, be a black being Beit, indigenous, being Asian, um, agent. And so I just think that you have to check in with that because and be very hyper vigilant and aware that, um, some folks may want to token eyes you in a way and being ableto have, um, practices and things in your back pocket, too. Disrupt knows those policies and procedures and practices and then either move forward or remove yourself from the situation.

[00:46:09.88] spk_1:
Checking in with yourself means, like the official question. Is this even worth doing at this organization?

[00:46:11.41] spk_4:
Right. And maybe

[00:46:12.44] spk_1:
Do I have any ally or there are other potential allies? Okay, go to potential allies, and they turned out not to be allies. Is it even worth doing in this organization like you say, you remove yourself, Go elsewhere?

[00:47:29.58] spk_4:
Yeah, and it because. And that’s really sad, too, because I think a lot of us in the nonprofit world are, um, you know, we are so passionate about the work that we dio We wanna, you know, we kind of pride ourselves. And I did this for a very long time when I worked in use development. You pride yourself on the number of hours that you work. You pride yourself on working overtime. You pride yourself on for the bare minimum, you do that. And then you have larger organizations that are typically white Run. That’s hold you hostage to that belief. And that’s really and that was I mean, I heard that maybe two or three years ago, someone said it much more beautifully than I just did. But on I wish I get credit them, but I forget who it was, but it really is those, I mean, and that’s a very big systemic, um, problem within the nonprofit world is that, you know, a lot of times white leadership will hold those those middle level, middle level, direct service middle management folks. Um, be it you know, people of color or not to their own jobs. To that to that own passion. I

[00:48:03.03] spk_1:
thought you loved our work. Exactly. We asked you when you came here three years ago. What moved without the work and, you know, using that work against them in some fashion time for our last break turn to communications. They’re former journalists so that you get help getting your message through. It is possible to be heard even through the Corona virus cacophony. They know exactly what to do to make it happen. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got but loads more time for racial equity, D I? In fact, this runs long because it’s a good conversation with Tristan that I did not want to stop. The total show is roughly 75 minutes,

[00:48:15.97] spk_4:
and it’s like the byline of you know, non profit works. Sometimes, sadly, is like we’re not in this for the paycheck, you know,

[00:48:23.25] spk_1:
Passion, passion, shaming.

[00:50:25.86] spk_4:
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s so I mean, and so when you put you take that in and of itself, within the nonprofit world, and then you layer on a racial inequity that’s like also, you know, people are stuck folks of color. Black folks are stuck with it between a rock and a hard place within their job. They want to make money toe like live to pay their bills. They want to have a job to do those things. Yet they’re stuck in an organization that is holding them hostage to the work that they’re doing, and so that that’s something that I think is I went off on a tangent. But I also think that you have to be very aware is this Is this organization ready for this? Is this organization really about this work? Because it’s gonna strip a lot of things bare for the organization that they may not like, you know, And that made that push against that culture dominate that white culture, dominant belief and systems that have built the organization toe what it is today. So, for example, it means, you know, how are we working? Are we working every single meeting toe have some sort of end results? Um, you know where we come to a conclusion at the end of every meeting? That’s white, dominant culture in and of itself. Sometimes we have meetings that don’t have a big or clear and result, and we need to be okay with that. Um and so I think about that. And I think about my past, you know, roles that I have held in use development and how many times I’ve been in a meeting where it’s like we have to get X and Y and Z done by the time. But in two hours we have to pound out a budget in two hours on DSO. I think being able to work, and I’m not saying that like and 10 is one of those, you know, shining places on the hill. But I love it here because Amy gives us the space and latitude to sometimes not have toe have meetings that maybe we didn’t come to a clear conclusion or that there’s not an expectation that we have a solid, you know, um, a solid solution that we come out of

[00:50:31.72] spk_1:
their outcome by end of me and meetings or just a microcosm of the total work, that because the work is constantly a journey absolutist repeatedly, you know, it’s not done at the end of a year or 18 months. And, you know, like you were saying different example though, you know, check, we’ve done our We’ve done our diversity work

[00:50:50.11] spk_4:
right right

[00:51:06.97] spk_1:
now. Now, we just banned the committee or the committee Lance to be six months every six months or something like that. Yes, the meeting is just a microcosm of the of the overall structure and progress and journey you say in the description of the program, then 10 journey. It’s never It’s not really never completed.

[00:51:15.12] spk_4:
Yeah, it’s never done. And it definitely doesn’t live solely with me. And I think this is the one thing that I particularly like, Um, in this this role that I’m in within 10 and working so closely with Amy with D I work is the idea that she and I are a team, um, working towards this, I think a lot of times and organizations, they token eyes, a person of color, and they’re like, Oh, you’re the equity person. You’re the equity director. You’re the X, y and Z, which is fine. It’s great. I’m all for that. But a lot of times there are situations where or organizations that put it all on that person. And they’re like

[00:51:52.79] spk_1:
the person has no with no authority, exact lots of accountability, but no authority,

[00:53:04.39] spk_4:
right? And so what I really like and appreciate is that Amy pushes me, and I pushed back on things that we’re working towards and, um You know, I say I pushed back, but also she and Ira will learn personality anyway, So a lot of times, um, she’ll peek around the corner from our office when we when we worked in offices. Um, you know, and be like I was thinking something like, Oh, my gosh, I was just thinking that. So I think it also helps be specifically with her. And I really are, um our relationship is that she and I are just very similar. Um, and, um, I think that does help. But I also appreciate her as a leader being able Teoh ask questions and prioritized racial equity not only when she’s thinking about D I stuff, but when she’s thinking about the budget. When she’s thinking about NTC when she’s thinking about, um, you know, all of our I t endeavours, all of our community pieces. Um, I appreciate that because that says to me as a person of color and more importantly, a someone who’s, um, you know, a ah person who’s working for is that Oh, this person’s in it for riel. Yeah, Amy talks. The talk walks the walk, and again, it’s not toe like, you know, game points with a Me, too. Because for that you

[00:53:18.07] spk_2:
were you making

[00:53:18.66] spk_1:
the point of the importance of leadership that has to be leadership support by in, you know, whatever it’s called or else you are, Well, not the person committee or the entire endeavor is just gonna be, you know, without without teeth,

[00:54:48.24] spk_4:
right? Yeah. And so that’s what I appreciate her as a leader, even though I’m the person that has the role that pushes it forward and stewards that she’s right there with me helping me and asking those questions on an executive level and on a board level two and prioritizing those questions. And so that’s something that I really appreciate as an employee, but also separately from that, like as a person of color, as an indigenous man, as a black man. I appreciate those things, Um, and so it’s it’s kind of 11 of those situations where, you know, talk is cheap, you know? And, um, you know, she walks the walk, and I really appreciate that. I’ve, you know, worked with a lot of white leadership in past organizations that I worked in, where they talked to talk. They love a good. You know, feel good session about D I stroking their own egos and all the things. But when it comes, it comes down to it when there are policies that they’re pushing forward and meetings that are directly, you know, working against racial equity, that’s not it, you know? And so those are examples that I think of where I’m like. Gosh, I wish I would have spoken up. Um, but but, you know, within 10 I don’t feel that. And that’s something that I I’m gonna hold on to it and hold onto it tight, because I know that this is a good thing. And I’m really, um, you know, glad and blessed to work on a place that prioritizes those things.

[00:55:13.17] spk_1:
Can you tell a story of an example of something that on its surface is not inequitable by? Maybe you pointed it out, Or if not, use something. It became obvious that it is inequitable. Yeah, you brought it to the organization and a chain jumping

[00:57:48.23] spk_4:
right. So I’ll give an example, and it doesn’t really point out a specific person, but it points out, Is Berries easy thing that no one had really found it within the organization within our organization. I know a lot of people think, Oh, wow. It’s like this multi tiered, you know, organization with lots of people. There’s only 15 of us, so, I mean, the way we work is very collaborative anyway. And so, um, once we have a job, sport where folks immunity are able to post open positions on the community s so a lot of times it’s organizations that will want to post a open position that they have on for the longest time, we didn’t, um we as an organization didn’t have, um, a requirement for salary. So when people when there was a salary field for organizations to put in, um, you know what? How much this person was going toe radio? Absolutely. They leave a blank, right? D o e dependent upon experience. Um, and if you look at that, too, seems pretty like, oh, standard. We see it all the time with, like, you know, you know, we go on linked and we go on any sort of jobs board site. Yeah, They probably don’t, you know, put the salary, and a lot of times it’s dio we and, um I I myself was like I don’t see like why, you know, there’s like an issue with that, too. Until it was pointed out that, like, you know, this was This is a practice that is steeped in, um, whiteness and its steeped in patriarchal, the patriarchy. And so why do Why do organisations not do that? I don’t know. I can’t say that for each and every other word Is that what I can say is that when organizations don’t put a salary for a job or put d o e um, that disproportionately effects women and people of color. Um, because it contributes Teoh. And there have been studies that show that when it’s when there’s no salary, it discourages people of color. Don’t feel like they are, um, you know, I don’t want to speak for for all people of color, but there have been studies that have shown that, you know, it contributes to that pay gap. That gender pay gap

[00:57:59.03] spk_1:
okay, enables that’s what I thought. It enables disparities in pay

[00:58:00.60] spk_4:
exactly and so

[00:58:02.32] spk_1:
committed because you don’t have to commit in writing exact ranges 1 25 to

[00:58:57.62] spk_4:
one solidity on their maybe organizations out there that are like, Oh, this is a black woman that’s applying for this job. I’m going toe put my I’m gonna offer this job to this person on the lower end of that range, and that’s not fair, Um or, you know, because I didn’t put post my salary. I’m gonna lowball this this this job offer and that’s not fair as well to we want organizations that are going to put or post positions or job roles on our website to be up front with everything, too. We want to make sure that our community members have all the information that they have to make an informed decision about their future job. Future A future benefits so they can make the most educated decision on whether they want to join this organization or not. Do you

[00:59:02.44] spk_1:
know what’s what’s required for

[00:59:12.82] spk_4:
that salary? Yes, so right now it is required. That’s the only thing it so you can’t post a job of job opening without having a salary.

[00:59:15.53] spk_1:
OK, so array is arranged, Arranges acceptable,

[00:59:18.46] spk_4:
I believe, arranges acceptable. I

[00:59:42.21] spk_1:
think that’s okay that someone is coming being offered at the lower end of that range, and they feel their experience marriage something higher? Um, then they can brother on conclusion that this may very well be racial or gender based or some other some other classifications based beyond their experience. You could draw that. You can draw that conclusion for yourself. If you’re being offered the low end of that salary. Radio

[00:59:50.07] spk_4:
have some very badly for that with the rains that that was going, going it, Teoh.

[00:59:53.03] spk_1:
Otherwise, your you’ve got no information whatsoever.

[00:59:55.44] spk_4:
Absolutely. And so you’re like I don’t know what. And so a lot of times there’s just weird tactic that people do. It’s like, What do you think you should be paid? And it’s like, you know, don’t turn that on its head. You know exactly what this job is worth. Please put it out there so everyone is aware.

[01:00:12.08] spk_1:
Okay, My own conclusion,

[01:00:57.91] spk_4:
though, anyway, so we require that now, and that’s something that we all came together and talked about. I mean, I can’t say who I can’t remember who, like specifically brought it up as something a za point. But it was such an easy fix. Such an easy fix. And, you know, I’ve been you know, I keep on talking about past organizations I’ve been with, but, um, I’ve been in organizations where it’s like an easy fix, but it took three months to implement. It took a meeting une email thread, you know, Ah, heart to heart meeting about how this was. You know, sometimes if it’s easy just implemented, and this was one of those things that you know, start to finish, maybe took ah, week a week and 1/2 to get it all running a

[01:01:01.53] spk_1:
programming is all of a sudden it’s a required field when it wasn’t required before.

[01:01:05.85] spk_4:
I think things are red

[01:01:06.96] spk_1:
asterisk and has to be programmed in the back end that you can’t submit your form without that field being

[01:01:23.71] spk_4:
feel that there’s a there’s low hanging fruit that sometimes exists in an organization that no one’s really sat and looked at and been like, Why are we doing this? How can we do this differently? That’s in a more equitable way in an equitable, equitable, more former fashion. And I think you know, I also say that, you know, I bring up these this anecdotes just because, you know, I mean, there are a lot of other things that we’ve done that. Have? Really?

[01:01:39.11] spk_1:
Yeah. That’s a That’s a great one.

[01:01:40.66] spk_4:
Because lately that

[01:02:19.54] spk_1:
innocuous on its face, it’s completely innocuous. Leave it blank if you want. Your Blanco are based on experience. It sounds perfectly. We’re doing that that way for generations. Based on your experience, you’ll get big. But now it’s locked in. You know what? We’re being offered a salary at the low end, and you can draw your own conclusion that why that might be exactly okay and no longer enabling. All right, Um, that’s a great story. Yeah, Um I mean, yeah, there’s so much we can talk about. Yeah. You mentioned in the description how racism manifests differently. A different levels of an organization.

[01:02:23.60] spk_7:

[01:02:24.50] spk_1:
First, a little bit.

[01:03:03.42] spk_4:
Yeah. So great question. I have, um, the ah, you know, opportunity and the privilege to serve on a, um A It’s an advisory. It’s the Committee on Racial on Racial Equity for, um, the it’s called Organ Metro. So it’s Thea Thea area local regional government that it’s, I believe, spans three, if not four counties in the Portland Metro area. So it’s a governing govern form of government that overlooks all four of us

[01:03:06.10] spk_1:
have to show off that I know Portland is in Multnomah County.

[01:03:09.04] spk_4:
Yes, I have to show. I

[01:03:10.54] spk_1:
just have to marry. Let’s have to show that off. That completely

[01:07:16.58] spk_4:
how I, um seven. It’s very much like a, uh it’s very much like a, um you know, council, where there’s council members that represent each district. And there’s also a c 00 that runs the entire organisation and government. Um, So, um, I sit on a, um on a committee that is tasked with making sure that racial equity is something that that governing body prioritizes and also is taking into consideration when it’s pushing or advocating for anything. So all that to say is that we had an opportunity Teoh to touch base with some leaders, potential leaders within this, this governing body. And, um, I think one of the questions that came to the top and that I asked you because it kind of goes back to your question of like, um, racial inequity manifests itself in very different ways on. And so if you’re a you know, a CEO of an organization, um and you’re like, yes, I’m about d I work. I live in. I breathe it yada yada. I do all of it on and I’m really passionate about it. Yet you’re a white person, and then you have to, you know, foreign partnerships with other area organizations, and they’re all white as well to what happens when you get into a room or you’re having to have big, you know, decision making conversations and everyone and there is white. Um, and, um and people in there are saying things that aren’t racially equitable. Um, and you’re sitting there in your belief that I believe I believe d I work. I know that it’s there, but the gravity of all these other people agreeing with this false, you know, or agreeing with this, you know, racially an equitable belief. You’re gonna have to push against that in that scary right to go against the grain of like, the larger group on. And so I I ask that because you know, our I just I bring that up because I think the phrase that comes most to mind to me is someone said it to me and I forget why read Reddit? Orde said it. But it’s always stuck with me as you move up within an organization, racial inequity on racism becomes more sophisticated, so it’s much, much easier to detect. Unlike a direct service, rubber hits the road level as you get to that C suite level. You know of an organization, it becomes more nuanced. It becomes mawr about tokenism. It becomes more about how you’re playing folks of color against each other or not even talking about it at all. Um, so I think that’s something that I’ve, you know, experienced in scene, you know, on a direct service level. When I first started right out of college, you know, when I was working for direct service, the the direct service staff of Color, the black folks, we’re always the ones who got, you know, assigned to jobs or assigned the locations that were less than favorable. And so, um, you know, it’s pretty straightforward. And then, you know, as we moved up within the organization, we realized that there was a token izing thing going on at the middle middle management level. And so, you know, I think that’s just one thing that it manifest in in very different ways, you know, in different organizations, but also across different levels To one level of, you know, racism may look, you know, one middle level of racism may look completely different at one organization that it doesn’t the other two. And so that’s why it’s, like a very sinister thing. Um, Teoh to be able to, you know, figure out for an organization.

[01:07:39.98] spk_1:
Um, let’s see, where can we go and sort of wrap up? Um, What you tell me you want? Oh, let’s bring it back down toe back to in 10. Because they were supposed to have been, but I let I wandered. Um um, deliberately So what do you want? What you want to share about? Sort of in closing in about intense journey, The work, the work that remains

[01:09:03.37] spk_4:
Yeah. Go. Absolutely. I love that. You said the work that remains cause there’s always work that remains. I don’t want anyone. I certainly don’t want to put on any, um, you know, false pretenses that we are. We’re there as an organization. We have arrived. We’re not. We have There’s always work that needs to. That has remained. That is remaining. And so I think that’s where I would start is that we have we’re on our own journey. We are, um, you know, moving forward intentionally and with respect to make sure that we are covering all of our departments and making sure that, you know, everyone is a steward of this d I work and making sure that it permeates every corner of our our organization. So that’s where I would start. I think you know, if folks are out there that are wanting to or your I mean, I specifically I speak Teoh, um, you know, CEOs, executive directors of organizations that are white. Um, this is the best time to push this forward. And it’s going Teoh not be easy. That’s

[01:09:10.83] spk_1:
what he said is the best time.

[01:12:27.75] spk_4:
It’s the best time because, you know, this is a time where people are, you know, there are country is and I don’t want to get you know too far into the political part of things. But like, you know, there’s a lot going on in our country to and, um, non profits are, you know, specifically smaller grassroots roots nonprofits are, um, you know, suffering A lot of times, a smaller grassroots non profits were run by people of color, so you know, I think in the spirit of non profit, it’s incumbent upon, you know, leadership to make sure that they’re helping. Not only there constituents, their employees, but also other nonprofits. So what does that mean for those CEOs or executive directors? This is the time, you know. And again I say that not in like, ooh, the stars have aligned these air that this is the time every time is a good time, You know what I mean? There’s no bad time to do this. This had this work has to be done. Um and so I would say that, you know, it’s it’s something that will pay off for years to come to. You’re going tohave employees when you start to prioritize, you know, d I work and not only within, like the D I department, but also just d. I work across your organization across departments and start to look critically how you can change and morph and transform into. I’m an anti racist organisation. You’re going to realize that a Not only are you a happier person be your employees are happy to be there and happy to do work, because inherently, when you a drew racial inequity. You’re addressing a lot of other inequities as well. You’re addressing, you know, gender inequity. You’re addressing LGBT Q. I A plus in equity as well. Those things will come in that makes employees happier. And what does that do that starts informing how you interact with your employees? Not only its not only informs it, but it starts to shape the things that you hold near and dear, both individually and as an organization, and your employees and staff will see that they will see that and they will want to stay. And that Matt effects. You know, if for those data folks out there, you know, staff retention, you have folks that are going to stay for the long haul because they believe in the work that you dio and what happens, you know. I mean, a lot of people think, you know, in in organizations or in business, you know, the customer is always right. Customer’s always right customer first, you know, or your that your communities that you’re serving our first and yes, that’s right. And there’s a grain of truth in that. However, you can’t serve your customers or your um, your the communities in which you’re serving or living in. If your employees aren’t served first and aren’t being prioritized, it’s kind of like, ah, flip of mindset that you have to dio So that would be my encouragement. And that would be my, um my you know, last piece that I would end on Is that like, you know, this is the time to do it, you know, because you know it. At the end of the day, it helps serve your organization to make sure organization stronger, and it makes your employees stronger. And it makes the relationships that you have with your employees stronger. Likewise that didn’t that, then goes into your, you know, direct service groups. You know, your communities that you’re living within. It makes your connection in your relationships more sincere and more bonded.

[01:12:51.55] spk_1:
Tristin pen, community engagement and Equity manager at N 10 s Justin, Thanks so much.

[01:12:58.14] spk_4:
Thank you so much. I hope I made sense. Thank

[01:13:51.35] spk_1:
you very much. You made a lot of sense Last sense and thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 ntc remember, were sponsored at the conference by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Martin for a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us next week. Privacy. Best practices. I told you it was coming. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As Guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission turned hyphen. Two dot ceo.

[01:14:41.79] spk_0:
A creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff. I did the post production. How did I do? Let me know. Sam Liebowitz managed to stream show Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scots non next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for February 15, 2019: DEI & Governance

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Gene Takagi

Gene Takagi: DEI & Governance
Diversity, equity and inclusion run deeper than having folks of color on your board. Are you managing treatment, access and opportunity for non-white males? Gene Takagi and I talk through the issues, goals and methods. He’s our legal contributor and principal at NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with like Oper diagnosis if you made me breathe in the idea that you missed today’s show. D I and governance, diversity, equity and inclusion run deeper than having folks of color on your board. Are you managing treatment, access and opportunity for non white males? Jean Takagi and I talk through the issues, goals and methods. He’s our legal contributor and principal at Neo Non-profit and Exempt Organizations Law Group on Tony Steak, too planned giving one piece at a time. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant but Wagner CPS guiding you Beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com Bye. Tell US Attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mole donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Always a genuine pleasure to welcome Jean Takagi back to the show. He’s managing attorney of Neo, the Non-profit and exempt Organizations Law group in San Francisco. He edits the wildly popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he’s the American Bar Association’s twenty sixteen, outstanding non-profit lawyer. He’s at G Tak. You know, it means Gene. Gene, the law machine. Welcome back, Jean Takagi. Thanks, Tony. How are you? It’s a pleasure to have you. I’m well, thank you. Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you as well. Thank you. I think maybe this is just the first shot misses. And you’ve been on before? Yeah. You have been on to the new year. No, I haven’t. I think this might be the first one was the first buyer, and this is February fifteen thousand. Alright, well, so we wish you a happy New year anyway, on DH and I I hear you wishing it back. So thank you very much. It’s never too late. Never too late to say pleasant things to each other. Um all right. So diversity, diversity, equity and include vision. I feel like we should first identify our terms. That is that is that everybody knows that diversity, equity and inclusion are not the same thing. This is not like, what’s the law, you know, aiding and abetting. You know the law, he says. The synonyms mean the exact same thing. Break and enter or, you know, a dahna bet this’s not this is not that this is not that. So what? What? How would you define diversity? Arika? Well, I think you know, it’s a great point that that it’s not a belt and suspenders approach these three different terms, meaning three different things. So diversity, I think, is the range in way people different people differ, and it’s used often in reference to race, ethnicity, gender, age, national origin is big, and the news now religion, disability, sexual identity and orientation, socioeconomic status, marital status, language, physical appearance and just a number of other characteristics. So it’s just reflects the way that we’re all different from one another. Equity is the quality of being there, I think, with respect her rights and treatment, and access and opportunity and advancement for all people. It’s kind of the constitutional principles that we think of equal protections of the law and all of us having the right toe. Life, liberty and justice and persons and organizations that work towards a more equitable society focus on understanding the root causes of the inequities, and they’re looking to identify and eliminate barriers and, of course, increase justice and fairness, both on a micro level on on a macro level and that final term Tony inclusion is really the state of creating or maintaining environments in which any individual or group Khun B and feel welcomed, respected, supported and valley to fully participate, embracing differences among different people. So diversity gets us one part of the way. But without inclusion, diversity may mean very little. Yeah, on organization could be diverse. But that doesn’t mean that it’s inclusive because divers is just a photograph of ah, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi gender aboard. But that doesn’t mean that that that that board is inclusive on DH, creating the right kinds of environments like you’re talking about. Yeah, absolutely right. So if we you know, we might approach that that topic and in a bit. But if we just bring in people of marginalized communities like certain minority groups or certain gender groups or all of the other categories we talked about and they’re just tokens but not given any authority, and they just make for the good picture that you were talking about. Well, that’s not inclusive. Or and that’s not equitable at all. That’s just having diversity for diversity. Stake? Yeah. Yeah, for a good photograph and a like a check box or something. All right. So is this. Ah, well, this is an area that non-profits are, uh, working on. I mean, it’s an area that our whole countries working on. It’s it’s in our culture with black lives, matter and metoo and, uh, marriage, marital equality. So it’s this is not certainly certainly not unique to non-profits, but but our our national consciousness has been raised. Um, how do you feel? Or how are non-profits faring? I mean, and what do you see among the groups that you work with? Two? Sure. I mean, it’s a great point, Tony, that this is in our national conscience. And, uh, there are a lot of tension and controversies where these what I will think our our moral issues are at play, and we’re looking at legal solutions on sometimes opposites sides of what some people will consider moral and Justin, others might say, are not a matter of morality but my position. And I think the position of most of the organizations we’ve worked within. And I’ll note that we do work in San Francisco, and we work with them non-profits in New York as well. And those air, certainly, um, uh, centers that that might be seen as more liberal than other areas. But, uh, there are, I think, these basic beliefs that, you know, some people are born with certain advantages or disadvantages, no choice of their own. Some people are born with certain characteristics or abilities, and some are not have no choice of their own. And many of us believe that we should work TTO help assure that all people have equal rights, equal protection, equal opportunities. And that’s sort of the moral case for saying, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion in our non-profits really matters because if we’re not leading in these areas is a nonprofit sector there’s there’s a question about that’s not a core value, really, is what the work we’re doing just focused on benefiting certain groups and maintaining status quo and improving the status quote for certain people with power and privilege. So that’s that’s kind of where I stand on that. Yeah, um, we may as well just call this right out. I mean, I feel an obligation to do that, You know, when we say certain people, some people no fault of their own, whenever you know, born with privilege and power and status. I think talking well, We’re talking about white males. There’s a There’s a white male supremacy culture in the country. And, um, that’s what creates structures that are oppressive, you know, day to day to people who don’t enjoy that power and have that that perceived status and and you know it. It creates a lack of opportunity and oppression and, ah, difficulty and just like day to day struggle, that it’s hard. It’s hard to. It’s hard for others for me to appreciate. I try, but it’s hard to understand the full the full impact of it. And I appreciate that, Tony. It’s I mean, it’s a different I mean obviously a complex and difficult to discuss subject. It makes us all uncomfortable, which is part of the reason we need to have these discussions on the board level and on a broader organizational level. Let me sort of make one sort of caveat to all of this. In America, with white male culture can be seen is, you know, the dominant color alter with the power and privilege very fairly in various duitz. Observe that, and that’s obviously a very informed opinion that you have with others and I’ll even say it’s not an opinion. It really is a fact. But marginalization goes beyond race to, you know, and and gender. It goes to sexual identity and orientation. Religion, nationality, wealth. Wealth is a big one. I think age now disabilities, um and I don’t necessarily, you know, have the capacity to understand all of those aspects, and nobody really has the capacity to ask, Understand the aspects of marginalization for all the different groups that we may have. And we do categorize people on a number of different levels and have to recognize that these are off often overlapping and interdependent zsystems um, that that involved discrimination and disadvantage, and some people refer to this is intersectionality. But it is something that we’re all dealing with this country and the one that you raise. Maybe it’s the one that’s primarily on her, uh, our attention right now. And that’s kind of the white male dominated, uh, power and privileged class of individuals and how our institutions have developed over our history with that perspective on informed by that group on how difficult it is to change on recognize the problems that we have if we just continue to go down that path and try to make little incremental changes to the system to make it a little bit fair rather than to think about rethinking some of these and re imagining how how more equitable systems could take their place. But the white male power structure, though I that’s the that’s the root of all of it. It it seems, you know, the more I read and think that’s that’s the foundation of it. Of all the all the inequities, I myself apologize. We’ve got to take a break, but we’re coming right back to this gene. Stay right there. But I have to take care of our sponsors, too, Pursuing their newest free book, The Art of First Impressions. It’s all acquisition. To attract, acquire new donors, you have to make a smashing first impression. They re book has the six guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy. How to identify your unique value, plus creative tips. You’ll find it on the listener landing page at Tony dahna slash Pursuant Capital P for please. Now let’s go back, Tio, My conversation with Gene and D. I and governance. All right, So Jean, you know, and so I think that’s the route is the white male supremacy, Um, and you know, And so you and I have to have a safe, you know, safe space for conversation. And it so happens there thirteen thousand people who are going to listen to this. But, you know, you and I, we know each other. So we I for the first time in, like, eight and a half years, I’m feeling a little awkward, but, um, I think if I say that, then that helps me. Teo, we’ll give it voice and just recognize it and say that’s that’s how I’m feeling. But we have to, you know, we’re two people who have known each other for for those eight and a half years, we’ve had lots of conversations where? Thirteen thousand people? Well, years ago, it was only fifteen hundred. But now it’s thirteen thousand. Have listened, and we’ve always been fine. So you know, you’re in a safe space. I’m in a safe space way. Have we have good heads when we have good judgment and, you know, just we have to just, ah, acknowledge there’s a little There was a little attention. At least I was feeling it you know, and just have toe. Okay. You know, these are just the’s air manageable topics. Fair enough. That sounds okay. Absolutely. Tony. And I’m appreciate you having you know, this conversation. It’s obviously one again that’s super sensitive, and I’m sort of, um, the beneficiary of certain powers and privileges myself, so I can appreciate. While I’m of Asian American descent and I have dealt with certain inequities because of that, I can certainly appreciate the many powers and privileges of I’ve had because of my background, including being a male and including living in AA community, where Asian American males are not that uncommon. So it’s a difficult discussion tohave, and everybody’s gonna have a different perspective on this, but I think again, making sure that people do have this discussion at every table. So at the board table, at the dinner table with your family, I think these are important discussions and, um way only benefit by talking about this. Even if there are disagreements. And even if there are attentions and a certain level of uncomfortable feeling that I get generated by them on get’s, you know, we challenge ourselves. I mean, you know, you have your own business. You’ve you’ve broken out. You’ve you’ve challenged yourself in lots of ways. I have my own business. I have a show that, you know, half years ago didn’t exist, you know, So we’re open to challenge, and so we shouldn’t fear another challenge. We’re just taking on another challenge. I gets a sensitive topic, but that doesn’t mean it’s insurmountable by any by any stretch we’re both accustomed to challenge. So we’re challenging ourselves. I mean, you spent twenty minutes on Twitter, hominy, hominy, uh, you know, postings the seasons, challenge yourself and break outside. And those who don’t think differently think, think like everybody else. And where would we be if we all were of that sort? You know, I mean, you see that stuff on Twitter and Facebook all the time, And so now we’re, you know, I mean, you and I live it, Ah, lot, because we have our own businesses. But now we’re doing it in a a different way. A different arena, but still the same thing. It’s the same concept. It’s a it’s a challenge. And it’s ah, it’s overcome oppcoll I agree? Absolutely. Absolutely. If you don’t have the difficult discussions, then you’re probably not advancing a zoo, group or organization. Very well, right? And if you don’t challenge yourself, you’re not. You’re not advancing and growing as a person. That’s because that’s what I was getting to absolutely agree. So All right, so what if you’re on a board and you feel you’ve, you feel like, uh, the board does not reflect or the leadership of the organization. Let’s even bring in the CEO of senior leadership. But you’re a boardmember because we’re talking about defying governance. Um, and you don’t feel like the that that leadership, as I defined it, represents the the people that you’re serving doesn’t represent the communities that you’re serving. What do you think you should do? Hyre It’s a fantastic question, and I think that’s the one that everybody is asking right now, Tony. And partly because we keep getting these results, uh, that show that the nonprofit sector has really not been leading by example in terms of diversity on its board of directors or diversity in its leadership. I think the first thing we need to do is acknowledge that is that we’ve been doing pretty much a terrible job is a nonprofit sector in terms of getting diversity on our boards and diversity in an inclusive way, of course, so I wanted to raise. There was a survey by board source in two thousand seventeen called Leading with intent, and it found that ninety percent of CEOs and board chairs were white. Eighty four percent of board members were white, and twenty seven percent of non-profit boards were entirely wait. And these are bear improvements over a similar survey that they conducted more than twenty years ago. So, yeah, ah ah, highly disproportionate group and we were talking about power and privilege. Um, a really disproportionate number of Non-profit non-profit leaders in governance and CEO rolls are white. And when we talk about this in terms of larger organizations on and sort of the hyre paying CEO position, the gender differences come out as well, where a lot of white males again are dominating on those boards. And in those CEO position, Um, somewhat reflective of, you know, for-profit Fortune five hundred company CEOs and boards where there’s been actual movement, Teo increase att least on a gender basis. Some diversity on their boards. But Non-profits so far have been just doing the terrible drops, I think. Acknowledging that and saying whatever we’ve been doing so far, his not been very good. I think that’s the first place to start. Okay, So you could say, you know, our board is not unique. Our leadership. Sorry of the way. Our seven. Our leadership is not unique. You know, here’s the statistics. The trend is awful. The numbers compared to the twenty years ago, it’s either flat or just our bare improvement there or it’s a walk back. So we’re not unique, but we But we can be leaders on DH. It doesn’t make me comfortable, Teo to be on a to be a part of this organization, that it doesn’t reflect the people we’re serving. Um, first thing I suppose you are a boardmember. Er I don’t Should you? What would you What would you suggest in terms of bringing it up? Would you bring it up in a board meeting now? Probably not mean, you should. You want to have ah, a couple of back channel discussions first, right before you before you make this a, uh ah, ah, anew. What’s it called on agendas? You do boardmember is all the time A new Your business new business before you bring it up is there are lots of hard work that hard work for me to find. If you have a five minute discussion at the end of the board meeting about this topic, it’s not really gonna go. Yeah, you’re very far not introduce it as an issue and put it really on the back burner, if that’s how you’re going to raise it. So I agree some back channel discussions among some of the board leadership and bringing in the CEO to say, You know, this has been a problem in the sector. Let’s take a look at our own board and lets see, do we have this issue as well? And there’s a little bit of, you know, something that’s been called in the racial context. White fragility about being very defensive about about this and think, you know, Yeah, the sector is awful at diversity and equity on board. But you know what? Our boards really different. Even though you know, our composition might exactly make up our community. We’ve got a few people you know who are persons of color, or we’ve got a few people who were women or however you wantto look a diverse. But do they have to testify that you’re being very defensive? Very defenses? I think, having open discussions about, well, what would this organization’s board look like? Ideally, in an ideal world, what would this board be composed of? What different perspectives can we bring in? And why would we want diversity on our board, Our specific board? We know it’s a problem across the sector. We know that maybe on an organizational level, we haven’t always done the best job. But we feel like we have our hearts in the right place. Well, what would this ideally look like? And I think maybe that’s the starting point of discussion to say, Why do we want diversity? What tack of diversity do we want? And ideally, what would that bring out our organization? Why would that make us on it further our mission in a more effective and efficient way. Why would that make our organization be more sustainable over the long run? And maybe after that sort of sort of going for the positive first, maybe after that going? Well, what happens if we don’t do anything about it? Are we going to still be relevant? Are we still going to be around in ten or twenty years? Are we going to still be able to serve our populations as well? If we don’t do anything about these things. So I think those are the questions you ask. Maybe start with the positive and then go to the alternatives. What if we don’t do anything? I’m feeling like Tio. If the board is goingto have, uh, focus on this and have meetings around this and that a professional facilitator could be really valuable because, you know, because of the things that that I talked about and you you seem to feel too, you know, ten minutes ago, and that’s just two of us who know each other very well. You know, but I can imagine a board of eight or ten people, and the defensiveness starts coming up. I could see where a professional facilitator could be really valuable. Absolutely, Tony. And one who has experience dealing with DEA issues. Right, Because they they are particularly sensitive. Just a strategic management consultant who doesn’t deal with this and who might be a member of a powered and privileged class might not have the same perspectives and sensitivities to be ableto bring in the discussion than the understandings of the board members. Teo, be able to move this discussion forward in a way that will actually promote inclusiveness and equity in the organization. Just when would you just said d? I was just thinking this is a really It’s a good thing they don’t call it, uh, equity inclusion and diversity. That would be I’d improvised explosive device. And this this stuff can be really explosive. So if you’re not so I think I just if you’re not careful, you could you could you? If you’re not careful, you could die from the i e d of D I Yeah, that’s absolutely all sorts of possible acronyms. And I hear E. D. I is a frequent acronym on this issue as well. But, yeah, put the put the letters together in the wrong order, and those are the bad things that can happen. You could die from the from the explosiveness of deeds of I of d I. So All right, So what are some of the positives? And, you know, we were going to take inventory. The positives. Then we’re going to take inventory of the negatives to the fear the change. Some people gonna lose their board slot over years. This is obviously not gonna happen in six months. It’s not even happening. One board cycle. But if it’s going to if the organization will be committed to it, you know, there’s going to be costs and benefits. But so what? What? What? Can we identify some of the benefits of having a board that does represent Ah, leadership? Sorry, I keep saying board, but leadership that does reflect the community that we’re serving. What We know someone we know, some advantages. I mean, I because I could spitball a couple, but what do you What do you think? Well, I I think maybe the common sense advantage that we can all probably think about say, that makes sense is that when you got diverse perspectives and diverse backgrounds, it’s going to result in. Mohr informed better decision making because it’s not a bunch of people with the same experiences on the same backgrounds in the same kind of understandings of certain things. You’ve got more, more different thoughts, a different thought. Leadership in there and diverse leadership attracts broader community support. It also leads to greater equities because you’re now thinking about well how to our programs or how our services effect not only just sort of people in general, but segments of our communities. How are we doing with our African American communities or with our Latin next communities or with our Asian American communities with our LGBT communities? And you know those air things that we can all sort of bring in more diverse boards in an inclusive, diversity. Inclusive manner, of course, brings more different perspectives. Beings Mohr leadership that’s informed by different ideas and different backgrounds on DH that really helps out on, you know, also different networks. You’re opening up the opportunities for for for networking and who could be brought to the organization by having a more representative, diverse and inclusive board just absolutely latto napor networks and I think thunders now are starting to become very interested in this area’s well. So in terms of attracting the funders, if you rely, at least in part, on having grants coming from foundations, um, there’s trying to become more and more interested in this space. And part of the reason why is because there has been a lot of backlash against Thunder’s not taking into account DEA in the past, on their being called out and there have been different books. I’m not sure if you’ve been sort of talking with people about these areas, but on and had your argast has been, he wrote Winners Take all, which was on The New York Times top one hundred books list and that talks about sort of power and privilege and philanthropy and how, it seems, you know, serves to perpetuate inequities. Well, foundations are sensitive to that, and I know there are some foundations like the Ford Foundation, that are actually really moving, um, to address some of the inequities that have been caused by by foundations. There’s rob racial Stanford, who just wrote just e-giving who talks about tax policy and how wealth and philanthropic giving like that by maybe like somebody like Jeff Bezos who pledged two billion dollars to charity is really something that deserves not our gratitude but our scrutiny because of his ability to shape policy. You hung that money, influence things going forward and again in a way that a white male sees importance but not addressing it with a broader community. So I think the philanthropic sector is more interested in funding in these areas now, as they’ve been called out on it. Uh, and so if you’re a charity just dependent upon it, it’s gonna really be important out to your funders, many of them and increasingly, mohr that you’ve got a diverse board that has taken into account different populations that it may serve. Are we gonna take a break? Someone we did have on this show just just a few weeks of December. Edgar Villanueva, Uh, the author of the book de Colonizing Wealth and his thesis that use money as as healing For all the past inequities over centuries, Edgar is excellent. Also. Jean, When we come back, let’s let’s talk some about some of the downsides, the fears that we’re going to have to categorise and and list and deal with also among the leadership for this change. Andi, let’s talk some about token ization, too. Weinger CPAs anew Archive Webinar foryou. Accounting update. What has changed that Wagner knows intimately. If you can get intimate with accounting, you shouldn’t get into it with accountants. But but that’s hard. We’re talking about the topics that they know intimately, and you just need to know them a little bit so you don’t need to be intimate with them like the accounting update. New requirements for financial statements. You find this at regular cps dot com. Click Resource is then Webinars. Now time for Tony Steak, too. Take your plan. Giving one piece at a time. I was watching a tree get cut down in my father’s yard like Abraham like, uh, and I was thinking about planned giving. I did not think about honesty. I was thinking about No, wait, That was, Who was the tree? That was George Washington, not Abraham Lincoln, right? Cutting this tree down. That was George Washington. Um, but I wasn’t thinking about either of those Anyway, I was thinking about plans e-giving there’s a guy up in in the bucket and he throws a rope around a branch so that it doesn’t fall uncontrolled after he cuts it. And that’s just like you need to have a couple things in place. Simple things. Just simple rope, that’s all. Nothing elaborate but simple rope thrown over another branch. You need to have a couple things in place before you start your plan giving like, you want to know who your prospects are going to be. We’re gonna be promoting this, too. You wanna have some? Ah, simple plan for going ahead. And then you can go ahead and start your promotion. The cutting. And that would be, of course. You start with bequest. Just take it one piece at a time. Just the way I watched this guy cut this tree down One branch of the time it took ah, full eight hour day and including all the clean up. So you take it one step at a time. And, of course, I’ve got clips of ah, thiss tree surgery, all as part of my video at tony martignetti dot com. Now let’s go back, Teo. Gene on DH talk about D I. Diversity, equity and inclusion and governance. So, Jean, some of the some of the negatives that we’re going to have to deal with, um what what do you fear of change? I mean, I’ll throw a fear of change. Like I said earlier, some boardmember is going to lose their seats. I don’t know that hands are going to be going up and saying, OK, I’ll surrender my seat, even though I’ve got I’ve got two terms left because our by-laws called for three times. But I’ll give up my last two terms for there to be a person of color in my seat. I don’t think that’s gonna happen. So what are what are some of the negatives were going to deal with? Sure. So, you know, in addition to the one that you mentioned about, well, you know, does that mean I have to go was a boardmember because I’m a white male and be replaced by somebody else? That’s not necessarily the case, but that is certainly one of the fears that comes up more. General fear is maybe that Hey, we’ve got some great board members here, but they happen to be white. Does that mean we have to let them go? So that’s one of this year’s They’re stuck on a government structure that says, okay, maybe we were goingto have at nine boardmember Zohra ratio of four to ten, and you have ten board members and nine happened to be white. And you think they’re all great people? You don’t want to lose any of them, so the side as well, we can’t make our board more diverse without losing good people. And that’s a difficult discussion. Tohave One solution maybe increased the size of your board. You go. It’s not It’s not an either or, you know, good, bad. Kind of No, that’s a center in institutional structure. Way. Have to sacrifice some loose, um, good white people so we can get people of color on know just what you suggested. How about we just expand the size of the board? Yeah, but in some cases, it might be good for some people to step aside. And I say that with respect to age as well, because, well, we haven’t talked about it very much. Ah, Non-profit boards tend to be kind of older to Tony as you may know, uh, and young people, particularly millennials. Andi, even some Jen acts are just not getting onto boards. And they’re losing interest because nobody’s recruiting them. So people stepping aside to let in younger generations new thoughts, new ideas, new backgrounds and bring them onto the board, I think is just incredibly important as well. Yeah. You know something? I’m I’m thinking, um, you know, any of these solutions or methods? I really I don’t want to call a solution a method of process that we’re talking about. Jean, you know, may or may not work for aboard, but I guess what my goal for this show is just to encourage the conversations. You need to figure out what’s gonna work best for your organization. Um, you you know? So yeah, you need to You need to tailor these ideas of just But but think about it, you know, be introspective. And if there’s if there’s some If there’s angst, you know, talk about it and give it voice and think about a way a way forward of making the situation better. I could not agree any more with you, Tonia. Absolutely right. I did want to address some of the other challenges, a swell that you raised about having these discussions. Because while it’s great to say, you should have these difficult discussions, there are these barriers to them. And so I think it’s okay to acknowledge that there barriers, including this fear of losing good board members or maybe getting kicked off the board yourself. But, you know, in addition to that, you know, people are thinking about well, in our mission really isn’t about diversity on, and it isn’t about racial equity. Our mission is about something else. It’s to increase, huh? Education in the sciences or it’s tio promote the art or to do something something else doesn’t Apparently, att leased the surface level have, ah, racial lens on it. So people think, Well, it’s working, invest and to do this right, Tony, you talked about bringing it consultant. The board has got to be prepared to invest money and time. You’ve got to do it on the budgeting process and you’ve got to say, diversity, equity inclusion. This is one of our core values, and we are going to invest as if it is a core values, and that is another barrier it’s going to cost money, it’s going to take time. It’s going to take time out of your board meetings because this is a difficult discussion that you’re not goingto have in fifteen minutes. Uh, it’s going to take time, and it’s going to be probably something that goes on forever. So these aren’t short term solutions that solved a particular initiative. These are ongoing discussions that aboard needs tto have to mean make sure that it continues to promote and observe its core values. And I would say that board members, individually you talked about the board of the whole thing, that this is the rule to have these discussions Well, I’m going to argue that a boardmember individually has a fiduciary duty. If D. IE is a core value of the organization to bring it up, Teo, talk with first, you know, private conversations with individual more members. But make sure that that goes to the full board, because if acting in the best interests of the organization is your fiduciary duty, which it is, and G I is a core, value the organization while doing things that further your mission and are consistent with your core values. That is your legal duty. And while you might not get into any legal liability situation for not observing him, it’s still your legal duty to do it. So I would say it’s really imperative upon individual board members who have identified D. I as in core Valley of their organization to make sure that it gets stated that way. And that discussion goes to the board and that investments are made on decisions are made, which will cost something. So to make investment means you’ve got to take money and time out of something else and put it towards this. It’s now time to start doing that for a great many organizations, take money from something else, or find right, raise more money. Correct. There may be sources of money that, uh, that will support this kind of work. Um, I don’t know, but but it’s again it’s not an either or thank you, that’s that’s excellent the way you explained Gene the individual responsibility, because if yeah, because if we all just looked to the if we all just looked to the collective and the collective never raises it, I mean, the collective is just a the collective just a bunch of people. And so if the collective never acts, then that none of the people are. If none of the people are acting, then the collective will never act. That’s why I’m trying to say it sticks me in the circle. Curious way of getting to things. But so, you know, if if every individual’s waiting for every other one, it’s never gonna happen. Um, okay. Uh, all right. When we come back, I got taking a break. When we come back, let’s talk some about organization, Gene. Tell us can use more money. You need a new revenue source. You get a long stream of passive revenue When cos you refer process their credit card transactions through Tello’s. It’s that simple. You give fifty percent of each individual fee and those things add up. That’s the long stream. Month after month after month. Watch the video. Then send your potential companies to watch the video. You’ll find the video at Tony that m a slash Tony Tello’s Let’s do the live listener love. Um it’s ah goes out wherever you might be from Guten Dog which would be Germany to Ni hao, which would be China two Konnichi wa which would be Korea. Um konnichi wa is what konnichi wa is Japan. I’m sorry on genes on Kenichi while Japan, of course. Because Korea is Anya Haserot. That’s right. Yes. Uh, So the live love goes out and that’s for the listeners abroad. But the live love goes to the domestic listeners. Nonetheless, sometimes I do abroad first. Sometimes I do domestic first. So this time I’m doing their broad first But the domestic listeners throughout their fifty states because it’s not only the continental United States we’ll bring in Alaska and Hawaii also, of course, the live love goes out there. So wherever you are listening, live love out to you and the podcast pleasantries, too are vast podcast audience. I’m grateful that you are with us been subscribing the numbers keep rising pleasantries to our pod cast audience. Okay, Jeanne, Um so organization. What? What does that look like? When people of color, uh, or other, uh, other classes are brought in as tokens. What? What does that look like? What that looks like Tony is it’s awful. Well, let’s use the person of color a CZ example. You have, ah, vast majority of the the current board composition being white, and that board decides what we need. Toe add a person of color onto our board. Um, so they bring in one person of color, maybe an African American individual. They bring them on the board, and then they take the picture that we talked about at the beginning of this show. It makes for a better picture than it wass before. Um, but that individual boardmember is really not given any additional power or duties. They’re not asked for their different perspectives that they bring onto the board. There’s no plan to incorporate that person’s background in knowledge to influence what mate be done with the organization’s planning efforts or its future board governance structures. So that person is just brought in there for the good looking photo that shows a more diverse board than it wass on DH by excluding such person from from riel positions of influence and power. Yeah, that’s really just making them a token. And that’s what we’re talking. There’s the key. Yeah, they have. No, they have no power in the organization. There’s no plan for rewarding sharing the power. Um, yeah, the power center isn’t changing. And if it’s one person that that’s probably that to me, that would be a red flag has to be a pretty small board for one person, too, to make a difference and to be incorporated into power structures adequately, Um, and you know the kind of something you know, sometimes you’ll see the diversity committee, right? And so the so the people of color, the lgbtq, you folks, whatever three older folks they’re put on the diversity committee, and that’s it. She really just be called the Divers committee. We have a committee that’s diverse, That’s it. That’s what they do. That’s their structure. That’s their charge to be diverse. Okay, we have a diverse committee, you know, Um, you know, it’s it’s it’s insulting on its It’s also counterproductive because people know when they’re tokens when when they’re not given the levers of power or access to them. People know that, you know, they feel it, and it’s just going toe. It’s gonna create resentment and animosity. It’s It’s counterproductive to have ah, a diverse committee. I agree. Chun hee. So in there, lots of stories where persons of color who get invited onto boards find themselves being the only, UH, person of color on that board and being appointed to a diversity committee. Um, and that gets to be a routine. They join other boards with similar sort of bored compositions, and again, they’re asked to be part of a diversity committee. And, well, if that diversity committees actually given enough power and influence to effect change so that diversity, in an inclusive way is really strengthened in the organization and its governance. Well, that’s one thing. But if that diversity committee, year after year, is just for the photo op, uh, and just for the Grant proposal that says we have one, well, that’s really classic token ization. And and that’s something that is counterproductive in the incredibly you’d be better off not having that individual joined the board. That will be a terrible board experience for that person as well. Let’s talk about how this is a e-giving deviating from what I was thinking, but it is important. How do you share the levers of power? A. CZ. So if the leadership is, is all white what? What do they do? What do they need to do? Latto give real power, too. The their newly new people of color, etcetera. They’re newly diverse board members. What does that look like? Sharing the levers of power. What? You know, I need you to talk a little bit so I can think about it cause I just thought of it myself. How do you do that? How do you start to share power? Great question. And that would be kind of one of those generative questions that board should have. Ah, long discussion about once identified D. E A. Is something they want to prioritise and adopted the core values, and I think they’re a few ways to do it. The first way is to decide well, the first thing to do is recognize every boardmember actually has no interference. Individual power. Every boardmember individually has no power unless it’s delegated to them individually. While they have no power. Collectively, as the board, they’re the ultimate power of the board of the organization. So collectively they have power individually, they have no power. So bringing on one person, colored just to be an individual boardmember not delegating any authority to that individual is classic. Token is but you have officers. So you have a chairman of the board. You may have a vice chair, you may have a CEO. You may have a development director, some of these air staff positions in all volunteer organizations that may all be volunteer positions. And there may be mixes, obviously, but their officers who do have individual authority and that where you have to think about is, is our diversity in an inclusive manner being affected through our officer positions there. Maybe committee positions that have power as well. Where they’re delegated with the authority to do things on behalf of the board and executive committee would be, you know, a typical committee that’s often asked to sort of take over Mohr of the day to day oversight. Then the full board would be and is a person of color, or whatever marginalized group that you’re trying to increase. The first report is that person, or are those people representative on those committees that have important power? And then, beyond that, maybe the other way to think about it is influence. So while I said each individual boardmember has no power different board members have considerable influence. And if you have a board meeting that’s, you know two hours long if you’ve got a board of, like, fifteen people, there’s only so much that each person Khun say and allow everybody to participate right, And that’s often controlled by the chair of the board, sometimes by the executives who run the board meetings, which isn’t always a great way to do it. But somebody is facilitating and latto presiding over the board and the board meetings. And to do that in a way that recognizes that persons from marginalized groups the person that you asked to be on the board, to represent some of those ideas and perspectives and thoughts, well, that might be unfair to say, you know, you’re brought on to represent every person who’s you know in that group. Yeah, that’s on. So just yeah, just to bring those people just to get at least their individual perspectives coming from that background or characterization, that can be important. But if the board members just don’t acknowledge that, you know, and just give them five minutes to speak at a you know to our board meeting because everybody else needs there five minutes. That’s not going to do much to effect change, either, You know, So so. But promotion, um, get mentoring access to the leadership Onda leadership that that hears them. I’d also welcoming challenges to the leadership, you know, not mutiny. But there’s a lot between silence and mutiny. There’s a broad spectrum there, and so welcoming challenges to the authority and even even in public. If you know if something comes up in public and it seems wrong that the challenge to that shouldn’t be defensiveness, marginalization and rebuking, it should be acknowledgment. I’m trying to listen and learn. You know? What is that? What’s the What’s the What’s the source of the conflict that’s been pointed out? Mean those air? Those are things that that I was thinking of. Two as a cz ways of sharing power and e-giving e-giving voice. I got to take our last break. Gene Hoexter give. Can you use more money? Need a new revenue source? Here’s a second way mobile giving. You can learn about it with text to gives five part email mini course. Fiv e mails won the day and you will know no more about text e-giving mobile giving than you did six days earlier. I did it, and I learned it’s easy to get started. It’s cheaper. It’s easy for your donors. It’s cheap for you to get started. There’s just a couple of lessons that come out of this many course to get the email many course Text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine nine. And thankfully, we’ve got several more minutes, but probably not enough, uh, for D I and governance. Anything else you want to add? Jean, too. I threw something out that I took a break, because that was that was that unfair exercise of power? I’m sorry, E. I got it. I got to take care of the sponsors. I didn’t mean to do it that way. So anything you want, toe, respond to what I just said. I’m going to echo actually what you said because avoiding conflict going for consensus based decision making on boards, I think is really, um, enhances the white supremacy culture or a majority or power privileged supremacy culture. So I think embracing some sort of conflict is important. Having a long term focus and not just a short return focus is really important not to looking to just better perfect the status quo when you recognize that the status quo was largely designed by one group for their own benefit is also another important factor. Now I’ll just leave you with a few. Resource is so bored. Source has got some excellent subject matters, particularly those written by Veneta Walker, who used to be their vice president and now engaged in consulting. And I’m going to have a chance to talk with Brunetta about four diversity on a webinar coming up in March. So just plug that a little bit and say, look for her readings because she’s a really leader in this space and you can learn a lot. Okay? And now you’re going to be on this Webinar in March, which I’m sure you’re going to promote at the non-profit. Law blogged dot com, right? Absolutely. Okay, so people need to be subscribing to that. You’ve heard my admonition hundreds of times, subscribed to non-profit law blob dot com and you’ll you’ll find out info about Jean and on the Web in our with Veneta, we still have some time left. Jean What? What do you want to talk about? Well, I’m going to say a few more things than what one is that I was going to mention Edgar Villanueva’s Well, because his book, It’s remarkable de colonizing wealth, and I really appreciated your show with that girl. That was such an interesting show. He’s excellent. He’s excellent. Yeah, the next thing is, maybe once you figured out what you want to do in terms of Why are you bringing diversity on? And how is it going to help your organization pursue or an advance its mission in a better way. That’s the time to start to now, reach out to communities of color on DH. You’re gonna have to go through different ways because the traditional way of bringing in boards for most non-profits that have self perpetuating board, we just ask our friends or we asked our contacts and very much, you know, and I think there’s an evolutionary biology principle of affiliating with, you know, people who are of our similar characteristics, all to do with the selfish gene and and all of that and so that that’s our comfort zone. That’s what we may be predisposed to because it had sametz solutionary advantage in the past just sort of congregate with one another that we’re very much alike. But we’ve got a break out of that. And if you want diversity, you got to reach out and go beyond that. Acknowledge that you may have those those predispositions, but you’ve got to reach out. Consider Boardmember Ching Services, identity based professional affinity groups, colleges, community leaders reach out and be uncomfortable. As you said, Tony, be uncomfortable, get to know new people and get your organization to know new people and new groups and figure out how to do it right. If you’re really open and honest about it, these people are going to want to help us. Well, yeah. Go into the communities that you are under represented by that you’re under representing, uh, set up some meetings. Um, you know, maybe it’s Maybe it’s among your benefit community, The people you’re helping talk to them or uh, but as you said, Gene, you know, goingto community’s going to networks that you haven’t been in. People take a meeting, they’ll take a meeting. And if your genuine and sincere they’re going to hear that, they’re going to hear that and they’re going, They’re going to want to help you. All right, Gene hears. I don’t know if we covered this adequately again. My goal was just to get people consciousness raised and get them thinking about and talking about these things. But I want I want each of us to listen back to this, and you and I’ll decide together whether we should say some more on this or we feel like we’ve we’ve done enough. Not that now that we’ve covered the whole topic. But have we, uh, Have we met the goal? Okay, but then you know what? I set the goal. So I’m open to a different goal to see, see that white powers creeping in and set the goal. And then I’m saying that we’re going to judge it by the goal that I said, So it’s bad. So you and I will collaborate together, and we’ll decide if we’re going together. If we’re going to do this topic some more sound good. I love to do with you and love to actually talk about how you can implement some of these ideas in by-laws and governing documents from illegal angle. There’s your record to it. Okay, It’s up to you if it’s upto us together, if we want to do some more. All right. So he’s Jean Takagi non-profit law block dot com. You got to subscribe to that and follow him. He’s at G tak Gene. Thank you so much for real. Genuine and could have been even tougher. But but it wasn’t as tough as it could have been. So I thank you for that conversation. Thanks so much. Really Appreciate it. Tony. Have a great day. Thanks, Gene, next week. I don’t know if you missed any part of today’s show. I beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash Pursuing Capital P by Wagner. CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers regular cps dot com by tell us credit card payment processing your passive revenue stream, Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine are creative producers Claire Meyerhoff. Family Blitzes. 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Nonprofit Radio for November 18, 2016: 8 Areas of Nonprofit Excellence

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Sharon Stapel & Melkis Alvarez-Baez: 8 Areas of Nonprofit Excellence

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The NY Community Trust Excellence Awards are based on tough criteria that reveal the right way to run your organization in areas like fundraising; management; board; financial; and diversity. From the Nonprofit Coordinating Committee, Sharon Stapel, president & executive director, and Melkis Alvarez-Baez, deputy director, explain the standards. They’ve been upgraded since we covered this on March 6, 2015.

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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of yours if you rubbed me the wrong way with the idea that you missed today’s show eight areas of non-profit excellence the non-profit coordinating committee excellence awards are based on tough criteria that revealed the right way to run your organization in areas like fund-raising management, board, financial and diversity. Sharon staple, president and executive director, and melkis alvarez-baez deputy director explain the recommended standards. They’ve been upgraded since we covered this on march six twenty fifteen on tony’s steak too, maur ntcdinosaur goes, we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com for glad to welcome back to the show. Nakis alvarez-baez she’s been with the non-profit coordinating committee since two thousand eleven and overseas their programs and member services melkis is at and pcc and why underscore d d i r deputy director and and pcc is at and pcc and why dot or ge? Marcus, welcome back. Thanks so much for having me back. Did tohave you? Pleasure? Sharon staple she’s the president and executive director non-profit coordinating committee. She was named a white house champion of change. As executive director of the new york city gay and lesbian anti violence project, she joined the non-profit coordinating committee in october of fifteen and she’s at n pcc. And why underscore prez pea are easy. Welcome, sharon. Thanks for having us. It’s. A pleasure pushing up both ofyou. Melkis. Uh, you got a promotion since you were here last time you were you were you were deputy. Then you were deputy director of programmes. I was director, director of programmes. Now your deputy director. I share your whole thing. Cool. Congratulations. Thank you. Um, we’re talking about these eight key areas of non-profit excellence the know that these are a criterion for a competition. Sharon, don’t you start off what you acquaint us with the competition and how these areas fit in? Well, i think it’s important. Understand what? Who and what and pcc is on and why we care about non-profit excellence and and pc sees a membership organization of fourteen hundred non-profits in new york city in the new york area, and we are really the voice and information source for non-profits and one of the ways that we think non-profits need to get information or the things we think they need to know about is non-profit excellence and management excellence because we think that for non-profits to be able to really get to their mission and be able to focus on the thing that they were created to two, they want to be managed and manage themselves as efficiently and effectively as possible. So the non-profit excellence awards is really a formal way for us to teach people about non-profit excellence and two go thank you. So it’s really informal way for us to teach people about non-profit excellence and two really recognized and celebrate that excellence in the sector and melkis having been a part of not just n p c c for five years, but also the non-profit excellence awards is probably our best guide through the history of the probe. Grandma and it’s already anarchy, so i asked you, but you’re going to defer to melkis way just want to make sure you have the best person talking your subject thought so. The key areas are really the driver of our near community trust non-profit excellence awards program on dh, the awards air program that and pcc created on dh manages and so we created the program in two thousand six, so this is our milestone tenth anniversary and it’s an exciting year for us and the awards are really an opportunity for non-profits tto learn from other non-profits and so we really go beyond honoring excellence, and the awards program are truly an educational experience for the organizations that go through it, but also for the other non-profits in the sector that are able to benefit from the best practices that we highlight throughout the process. Okay, thie awards ceremony is coming up it’s friday, december second, right? Okay, that’s the same day of non-profit radio airs every every week, so you may have t pretend you make pretend it’s trouble in new york city area. Okay, let’s see, i am goingto i’m goingto take through the eight areas so that everybody knows what we’re going to be talking about for the next hour. Uh, and then we’ll cover a little more about why. These are bona fide before we actually get into them. But so number one is overall management focus on results and impact and then governance structure moves the organization forward. Financial management is strong, transparent and accountable. Organization is diverse and inclusive. Number five is human. Resource is our valued and developed. Number six use of information technology systems improves efficiency and advances. Mission communications are strategic effective and build brand latto and the final area fund-raising and resource development. Our strategic donor-centric and effective. Okay, melkis let’s, stay with you. How do we know that these recommendations these criteria are are bona fide? I mean is this is not just something. And pcc decided and foisted on the community that’s, right? What’s the process through the get to these eight areas. So when we were creating the awards program ten years ago, we looked at what other state associations of non-profits were doing, and we looked at the other state associations in particular that had standards of excellence programs. There’s about twenty three, of them now on day in total represent about twenty thousand non-profits across the country. And so we looked at what they thought matters for non-profit success and so we picked the areas where there was consensus, but also balance that out with areas that we know are important in the new york city area. So for example, diversity and inclusion is an area that appears throughout the country as part of their standards for us. It’s a discreet section in our guiding eight areas, as we feel that it’s an important topic and management area that organisations in our area need teo be focused on and managed towards. Ok, so ten years ago you crowdsourced the genesis of this yes, through all your sister organizations call a colleague organizations throughout the country, right? Okay, cool. And in the end, they’re updated every year. I’m just gonna get yes, sharon, the awards i’m sorry. The key areas have changed just since last year. Yeah, well, the key, the key areas actually remained the same. We what we did really was to try and make more clear for the non-profits that we’re applying and make more accessible for everyone who is interested in the key areas. What we meant by them. What are the standards for those areas? Where do we think organization should be aspirational and how can they be aspirational and gave sort of slightly more specific examples about what we meant in those eight key areas? So so the overarching eight areas are not change, right? The sort of description and hopefully accessibility of them are ok, you were finding there was some misunderstandings about what some of the areas are meant. You know this, tony, because you do this work, but, you know, a lot of management khun feel amorphous sometimes right, and what it means to be a good manager of religion, good organization or what it means to be effective or efficient, sometimes that’s really hard to grasp. And i think i know as as someone who has applied for the non-profit excellence awards of my former organization that sometimes the standards it’s helpful to have a little bit more clarity when you’re not doing this every single day and when you’re sort of looking into the award greater specificity, yeah, okay, cool. We’re going back for our first break. We come back, the three of us will dive into these eight key areas and get acquainted with them. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. All right, let’s, dive in, ladies! Sharon let’s, let’s stay with you the first area overall management focus on results and impact. You want to see a clear mission statement and articulated values what’s this a little more about the values? Well, i think it’s important that organizations no, not well what i think isn’t actually that important. But what we know from the eight years of non-profit excellence is ah, clearly articulating a mission is critical. Of course we need to know why we exist in what we’re doing and and why the non-profit is is in the world, but understanding the values that go along with that what does the organization stand for? What does the organization wants to be? What does the organization i want to do around the way it treats its employees the way it approaches the issue the way it intersects or interacts with other organisations? Is justus critical as knowing that we want to end hunger? We want to end homelessness. We want to work with survivors of violence whatever the mission is now you have for each sub area within. The eight areas there’s their standards. And then there’s aspirational. There was you standard aspiration. Does does an organization not do well in the judging? If everything is standard and not very much is aspiration, i’ve achieved aspiration? Well, you know, i think it’s there’s sort of two purposes for this program, right? And so one is it’s an educational opportunity. And so any organization whose meeting all of the standards is doing great work, right? Those air what we think they are, the foundations of how folks should be using the eight years non-profit excellence, then there’s the actual competition of the awards, right? And there we have a selection committee of experts who know these eight key areas, and they are looking for aspirational, replicable, innovative and exciting practices when we’re looking at sort of overall non-profit excellence in terms of the competition, the award, okay, let’s, go into some or the area that we’re going to get the education component i know there’s a program for everyone these eight i mean, this is not is not just judging, but there’s a lot of training and help that goes along boosting lots of non-profit whoever wants to participate in let’s see, we’ll do you might can i just say another thing about overall? Management focus on results already anarchy. Yes, but i appreciate your asking. Thank you, it’s, you know, so it’s important to have a clear mission? Absolutely, but it’s also in court, important that we see organisations being able to measure review and most importantly, use data that points to organizational programmatic results, right? And we also want to see that organizations or strategic planning and thinking in a forward way. So when we’re looking at sort of the i talk with my hands too much or got tio here, somebody bumped a micro follow-up s so when we’re looking at the sort of overall area we’re looking for mission, we’re looking for vision, but we also want to know, how do you know you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing? And how do you use the information? How do you think about your strategy, given that information and how it relates to your mission? And how do you plan in a way that allows for learning environment and understanding that not all programs air perfect all the time? And so you’re going to learn the lessons, but also that you’re able to see that you’re moving toward the ultimate. Goal of your organization. Okay, so they really were to things wrapped up in what you were just saying impact reporting, basically, i mean, i’m i’m not we have to focus a little, you know, i have to make a lot more concise because we have, like, fourteen pages, so so i’m going, to paraphrase the impact reporting and also you want to see a vibrant strategic planning process, yes, and the learning environment, learning, learning from the results that you’re reporting and and then hopefully, i mean, you’re also you want dissemination of the results, right? Is that not a part of this or that? But i mean that somewhere else, but you don’t want to keep the results internal you want you want stakeholders to be seeing these, right? And i think that here we’re focused on the way that you monitor or use the results, but certainly in the governance of the organization for transparency. What you want to see, those results disseminated in communication strategies you want to see, you know, so you’ll see results because, you know, non-profits air created for the social good and to meet their missions, we want to see results used. In multiple different ways, but when we talk about sort of overall management with a focus on results we’re looking at, how are you using the data that you do? You have a data available, and if so, how are you using that data? I gotta be honest, as i was reading through these key areas is okay if i call make standards, is that is that is that is that word bother you if i call him standards or recommendations or what? What besides areas give me another word that you’re comfortable with, so i don’t offend the program. So i would say that the the eight areas and we call them that on purpose is because they go beyond standards, right? So one of the things to know what you’re right, they become aspirational. Yeah, give me a word. Besides harish, i just keep using areas. Yes. Okay, you’re right. So as i was reading through the areas, i was thinking, i mean, this is sort of a test for non-profit radio. Like how much of how much of this stuff have we talked about? Because the mission of non-profit radio is two help small and midsize non-profits with all the areas that they are struggling with a face challenged every day. So i’m sorry, you know? I mean, like, testing the show against now. S so i’ve got some shows to recommend. I haven’t got it. I haven’t got a recommendation for every single area, although we were, but we’ve hit every area, but i can’t i can’t impact report that, but so if anyone wants teo, get learn more about impact reporting. Look for the guest doctor robert penna, whose book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox and he’s been on a couple of times. More recently, he was on talking about the history of non-profits going back to the sixteen hundreds in in england. But before that he’s been on it was on talking about his book non-profit outcomes. Toolbox. Ok, ladies, let’s move on. Melkis you ready for? You want to take area to governing structure? Move the organization forward. You dealt me out with this defined. Ah, boardmember has a strong fiduciary. What does that mean? Sure. So what we mean by that is that board members are engaged in the oversight of the organization, not just in the finances and making sure that they’re engaged in the budgeting process and making sure that the finances are in order, but really that they’re holding the organisation accountable, promoting and ensuring transparency and accountability on that they’re also partnering effectively with the staff to really drive the organization forward and to support the mission of the organization. How do you tell that all these things were happening through examples right that the thie organizations are highlighting throughout their applications, right? So they give examples that really show not just that the practices exist, but that show riel impact on the organization, right? So it’s not just enoughto have a stellar boardmember show us what that stellar, what meat? What having that cellar boardmember on your board has meant for your organization has have they’ve been able to connect you to, you know, particular donors? Or have they been able to help advocate for certain policy and change that that impacts and influences the organization? Okay? And then now for semi finalists, there’s an interview is that right? Or there’s there’s onsite visits? I want to get to the semifinals, so we’re at eleven semifinalist now we’ll narrow those down to six finalists, and they’ll have in person meetings with our selection committee, okay, is there an onsite component to it? You visit officers? We’ve reformatted that part of the process and so would you used to, but you don’t anymore. We don’t anymore on dh, so they all come and meet with this election company at a neutral space and it’s great to see what different organizations do with the same space, okay? And don’t no shame in that i’m not like him shaming your in that we’re not ashamed chaillou think decision, but i think i think durney since we’re talking about the application process, one of the things that we’ve done this year in an effort to make the awards and the educational opportunity more accessible to people is we created at the very beginning of the process of readiness assessment, which is basically a yes, no check, you know, sort of list and it’s an online application it’s, an online assessment, you go online, you answer the questions and we have sort of ah scale of scoring on the higher end it’s like this is you guys are doing great, you should definitely consider applying for the excellence are on the lower end it’s like, you know, you may have some work to do before you want to actually think about applying, and we then linked to resource is in specific air specific eight excellent the areas and then if it’s in the middle, we say to people like, give us a call and we can talk to you about where you’re at because we know it’s a big lift for organizations to apply for the excellence awards it’s a multi month process for them. The first round is four open ended questions about how the areas affected their meaning or how their management is is viewed through those areas. And then the second round is an incredibly intense application that examines each of the eight areas carefully, and then you have to do as you’re saying this in person visit and it’s it’s very rigorous, and we don’t want organizations wasting their resource is applying if they’re not going to be there. But we do want to give everyone the opportunity to assess their management practices through the eight areas because we think it’s an excellent tool to get people to move in the direction of making management changes. The sticking with the governance structure, the board has a giver get policy, one hundred percent board giving melkis you wantto you wantto emphasize the importance of that? Sure so that i would say that that’s something that the selection committee is looking for across the board of all organizations of all sizes and missions, is that there’s one hundred percent board e-giving on dh the idea behind that is that if your board members don’t give, how can you convince other donors other funders to give right? And so i think, and sharon, you might be able to speak more of this as a leader of a non-profit but foundations are increasingly asking for that metric that that board members are giving it doesn’t matter what the amount is per se, but that they’re giving something to again show their commitment to the organization on to the mission. Okay, and later on, when we get teo fund-raising you ask for a personally significant, i think that’s the phrase personally significant, okay, we’ve had lots of people are talking about boards. The ones that come to mind are michael davidson. You could search his name he’s twenty martignetti dot com michael davidson’s on your selection committee. Army veteran one has served since the beginning of the program, standing all ten years, years, he’s been a guest on the show, like three, four times i let happen. Um, we both are i could, and also for board fund-raising specifically, when get to the board fund-raising part. Gail perry, whose book is fired-up fund-raising she talks a lot about board fund-raising she’s been a guest. All so you could look for her on the history of the show. Um, okay. Oversight informed board provides oversight you haven’t, you haven’t. Interesting aspiration here. The succession plan. So it’s aspirational though it’s not standard. Why? You know, that doesn’t seem like it should be a standard thing. A succession plan. I think that many organizations think about succession planning as something that stops at the leadership of the organization. And so the aspiration here is that there should be a thoughtful succession plan in place for board leadership as well. Okay, okay. That’s, the operational partner. Right? The board evaluating its own performance? Yes. Say something about that s o we’ve seen a range in terms of how what this practice looks like. So we’ve seen that some organizations will do individual assessments of board performance in terms of meeting attendance fund-raising participation at events, site visits and involvement in programs. But we’ve also seen organizations do a performance assessment of the entire board, right? So instead of individual assessments doing a group evaluation but now your standard says that is boardmember performances individually assessed him. Reported back to the individual yes. So you really want to see that as a standard, the individual performance we dio and bored performance also board as a whole performance also we do, and the ideas that were striving towards engaged board service and having an evaluation process allows board members to know where they need to up their game and where they’re doing great in terms of supporting the organization like that, you specifically say, and is reported back to the boardmember there’s no there’s, not a lot of value for the boardmember if his or her performance is evaluated and it’s only discussed among the executive committee that’s absolutely what am i learning as a boardmember if i don’t know where my shortcomings are so like, okay, we evaluate what we’re going to share it with you, okay? I don’t know, like i don’t mean really do ping pong, but it’s turning out this way, sharon, you wantto area three years comfortable with the financial management is strong, transparent and accountable. Absolutely okay, and so i think what we’re looking for here and this goes back to the idea that non-profits are built for the public trust that there’s an obligation to be transparent and to build that trust with their donors and a part of that for a lot of donors is understanding. And frankly, a lot of a lot of constituents of the organisation is to understand where the financials air at, so we want to make sure that as a team, minimum organizations or transparent about their financials, posting things like their nine nineties and their audit on their websites and making sure that those air easily accessible documents, but we also want to make sure that internally, they’re really regularly reviewing what what is their performance versus their goals, not necessarily their performance versus what life looks like right now, which is, i think, what a lot of profits non-profits end up doing, um, did you want to say something? No, i’m agreeing with you and yeah, and and i think i think this is really hard, especially when you don’t talk, i’ll just interrupt, uh, i think this is especially hard during times of economic uncertainty, and we’ve sort of we may have in parts of our non-profit sectors climbed out of the sort of two thousand eight uncertainty, although there’s still a lot of non-profits as we’ve seen in recent reports that are teetering on the edge and we want to make sure that folks are being as intentional as they possibly can in times of crisis or near crisis, right? And and so that means having a plan that goes beyond the sort of reactionary and his various you’re proactive talk about budgeting, budgeting for surplus. Exactly. Exactly, actually, that’s an aspiration? Yeah, just included. Surplus, right? And then also, we want to make sure that people are looking at their day to day sustainability because a lot of times financial, financial analysis is can often be done at a board level on a quarterly level on an annual, you know basis. And we want to make sure that the leaders of the non-profit are looking at what does this mean for your day to day? What your cash flows look like? How profitable or your programs are you investing money in the right places? Are there places that as painful as it might be? You have to say, this isn’t either profitable and profitable in the sense that the program can pay for itself. Um, or it’s? Not as related to our mission as it should be. And we need to think about the finances there. You you have something? A statement under standard, the organization’s chart of accounts is aligned with the organization and program budgets what’s a chart of account is that just an excel spreadsheet? So hopefully, i mean, i suppose you don’t know in some very small, so basically it’s, the way that your accounting system categorizes the way that you spend money, right? And some for some organizations, they could be incredibly detailed for other organizations that could be less detailed, but basically what the standard is, you need to know where every dollar is going, and you need to know whether that dollar is going to the right area, right? So if it’s restricted program funding, it should be in your chart of accounts as restricted program funding if it’s unrestricted and you’re using it for fund-raising then you should be able to tell how many dollars you’re using for fund-raising versus if you’re using for management or other purposes. Or maybe you’re using your unrestricted dollars to cover the costs of your programs because you’re funding sources don’t cover the full costs, but you should know where each of those dollars is going, and you should be able to tell people about where each of those dollars is going. Okay, we have about a minute before we take another break. Heimans and i want to get back to something if we could do this in a minute. Sharon what you were just talking about earlier, you know, the assessment for on dh, not wasting non-profits time. But it sounds like the assessment is something valuable. Is that available now? Knowing that the awards are in process or not wear? Where where can we find find it on and pcc. And why dot or ge? Do you know the the actual part of the website it’s on it’s under the non-profit excellence awards are and it’s called the assessment a readiness is matter-ness assessment? Okay? Because it sounded excellent. It’s i think it’s such a huge resource for non-profits. And they should take advantage of it all year round irrespective of whether you’re in new york and you can fly these awards or not. Okay, exactly. Okay, ladies, if you’ll indulge me for a couple of moments, we have more on these areas coming up first. Pursuant, they help you raise more money. Their tools are ideal for small and midsize shops. That’s. Why? They’re a perfect sponsor for the show because they have online proto tools that you use for yourself velocity it was developed for their consultants to use internally to manage big client campaigns, and they found that was so valuable they rolled it out for you to use in managing your own campaign. You don’t need the pursuing consultant, you can use the pro tool on your own and that tools again velocity you’ll find it at pursuant dot com we’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising they make spelling bees incredibly fun. It’s fund-raising but there’s also live music and dancing and stand up comedy. If you are looking for a millennial event for your organization, i think you should talk to we be spelling there at we b e spelling dot com and there’s a very cool video there that demonstrates all those things that stand up comedy that dancing, etcetera. Now, tony’s, take two i was at the non-profit technology conference back in march on in fact, i’m going to talk about and ten more. We got to the section of the eight areas, so, you know, i was there because you’ve heard the interviews now i’ve got the video’s up, i’ve got mohr of the thirty video interviews that i got in this two and a half day conference was incredible rush thirty interviews in two and a half days all the smart guests you’ll see my introductory video with links to this batch of interview videos at twenty martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two. Okay, thank you very much, sharon. Thank you, marcus. Short indulgence. Thank you very much. Hey, well, it was important to talk about our sponsors graciously let’s move on. We’re in the next area four and melkis you want to take the organization is diverse and inclusive. I noticed that it it’s not only policies, but also practice, right? So as i said before, diversity and inclusion is one of the areas that we feel is a true value to highlight in our area. As i said, diversity is part of other standards across the country. But for us we thought we needed to have diversity and inclusion as a standalone area so that we can continue to focus on it as a riel area for management performance for non-profits and what we mean by that is that the organization’s practices and policies need to reflect a commitment to diversity and inclusion at all levels of the organization. So not just making sure that the staff is reflective of the communities that they’re serving, but also that the board and the volunteers are as well on. Do you include training’s? Yes, yes. I want to see training’s regularly with all these different constituent areas that you mentioned, right, exactly. So that everyone can effectively support and promote the mission on deliver on the performed the activities effectively that move the organization and towards achieving its policy wise. You have ah, you’re looking for. And this is a standard looking for a written diversity policy and a policy for reporting discrimination, right? So at this point organization, the selection committee is looking for for organizations to have a written diversity policy which is different from an affirmative action statement. But is where a lot of organizations just stop there on the election committee. Can you differentiate between those for us? Sure. So, sharon, you might have a better thought of these, but my for diversity and inclusion. My understanding is that the organization is stating those two areas and cultural competency as well as values for the organization and they’re informing hiring practices, promotions as well in terms of also the training of professional development that’s offering that are offered to the staff. Sharon, you might be able to distinguishing that with affirmative action. Yeah, i mean, i think affirmative action is a legal obligation, right? You’re not you’re legally prohibited from discriminate against people based on certain classes of identities. Well, we’re talking about diversity, inclusion, cultural competency and to some extent, equity, which we don’t really get into in the key areas but is an important part of the conversation. What we’re talking about is affirmatively embracing and understanding the value that diversity, inclusion, cultural competency bring to being able to achieve your mission, right? So it’s, not a sort of prescription it’s really a value and a business decision that the organization makes that we will be a better organization if we have a diversity of people. If we have a diversity of ideas, if we have a diversity of approaches to the work that we’re doing and making sure that that at a minimum that is encompassed in their policies and procedures, you know, and also assessed you have one. Of the standards assessing staff inboard diversity, yes, i mean and goals measured time against measurement against goal. Absolutely. I mean, i think that there is ah lot of people i think when they’re thinking about diversity inclusion, they often think about it as identity characteristics and that’s really important right race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, all citizenship, immigration status, all of those things are really important, and we want people to be aware of and tracking where they are at, especially as it relates to the consistencies that they’re serving. But we also want people to understand diversity as bigger than just identity care characteristics. It’s also do you encouraged disagreement that is healthy and constructive? Do you have diversity of opinions and ideas that can result in innovation and moving people forward? And we know that from the literature and from the research that that makes it that that makes business better, that makes the meeting the mission better. And we also know that people who come from diverse backgrounds are going to be more likely to have diverse opinions, right? So it all sort of works together two with the aim being that it’s our job to the best work that we can do to meet our mission, and if that means that we need diverse people, which we think it absolutely does mean, then that has to be one of the key things were looking at when we’re managing the organisation, it can’t be an afterthought or as the affirmative action plan might be sort of a legal, you know, legal disclaimer in our problem exactly, exactly. Okay, let’s stay with you, sharon. Talking about human resource is the human resource is air valued and developed now in small, small shops there’s very likely not even in h r for a person devoted to this topic, i mean, it could fall to i don’t know, theo, or maybe the executive director even this this could be a tough one other thing, i think it can be tough. I’m going to take a moment to say that part of the reason n pcc exists is to provide for our members thes trainings in this information so that they don’t have to have someone on site to still know what they’re doing, so there is a resource for smaller organizations, but i think it is tough. And i think that we do our very best to keep non-profits particularly are smaller members apprised of compliance issues and legal issues so that they’re running the best hr department that they or their running the best organization is in terms of hr as they can. But this is also about and and i was actually listening to your most recent podcast where you had against talking about happiness and well being, and this really is also about what, how we treat our our human resource is, like, literally after anna lisa sherman just exactly like the happy, healthy non-profit exactly, and, you know, really, i think we say hr without understanding, we actually mean, the human beings that are in a sit in are non-profit and we need teo and study after study shows your guest last week talked about this that healthy work-life balanced work environments which are incredibly difficult to achieve and non-profit sometimes because of the under resource ing and thie over demand, but really focusing on are your employees happy and are they are? Are they finding a work-life balance that’s going to make your business more effective, more efficient? You’re going to be reaching your mission. One of things you you’re looking for a standard. His job descriptions, including for well, it’s, aspirational. I think for volunteers, you have definitely job descriptions for employees on board members. And then is it aspirational when it’s job description for volunteers or is that part of the standard? I mean now volunteers when you realise they’re considered the end of the meeting, the mission. So now you’d be looking for job descriptions for volunteers, i think. Yeah, i wantto listeners. We have. Ah, just recently replayed heather carpenter. Her book is the talent resource platform, and she was just on a couple weeks ago talking about job descript. Specifically, the the segment was called your job descriptions could search that and also going backwards. One just occurred to me. Um, fields jackson has been on the show talking about diversity and the value of diversity in your non-profit his name again. Fields. Jackson. Okay, see everything else on, uh, a charm. And you covered quite well. Oh, succession planning is important. Charon. Right for ah, in succession. In hr. We talked a little about that with melkis. Anything more you wanna say about importance of succession? Planning? No, i think i think melkis when she was talking about it, with the board that’s really important and not a lot of non-profits do it, i will say the one thing that i hear most often about succession planning is the fear to start it because it might seem to signal a departure out of the organization on and really, i think one of the things that we’d like to see is tohave succession planning be so routinized that it begins on day one of the Job that on day 1 you’re starting to think what would happen if i wasn’t here, who would be doing this and who would be doing that? Because it also helps you figure out your chord structure and are due to the right people in the right places, and it helps you figure out your strategy and who’s going to put that strategy forward, and i think we have to get over this sort of, i don’t know and it’s almost like this embarrassed like shyness about doing succession. Look, if there’s if there’s trust between the bored and the video, then i think the board chair can reassure the ceo that this is not about your departure exacts about the long term viability of the organization and a potential crisis exact a cz well, as you know, you, you might decide that you found a job that dropped in your lap, and you want to take it five years from now or ten years from now, we need to be prepared exactly it’s all those things. So hopefully there is that trust between the board and their ceo. I could have one more thing, i think that what we’re talking about, a succession planning beyond the ceo that were also thinking about succession planning as an opportunity to really invest in the staff and going back to your first point about developing the talent in the organization and just building up the bench in the organization. S o succession planning is not just about the ceo potentially leaving, but also being really smart about who you have on your staff and developing them to take on more responsibility in the case of an emergency or in the case of just more opportunity, teo, grow and and promote your staff and that feels good for the staff to they see you, they see a career path within the organization or they see that when they get to a certain level, there’s a discussion of career path within that organization. So you know that i mean that’s promotes honesty and comfort within within the organization. You working for let’s? Go to aa number six. Let’s. Go. Sharon, if we stay with you for information technology, i feel like playing this ping pong game. I don’t like it. So information technology improves efficiency and advances the mission. You got some very basic standards. I hope these are not hard to meet. Offsite, elektronik back-up surge protectors, virus scans, firewalls. Are their organizations still struggling with just the standard stuff? I think so. And i think you know melkis khun speak much better than i can t the applicants that we’ve seen with the excellence words, but i think one of the things about it is that it is hard to find funding for specifically for idea. So you may have folks who know what to do and who want to do it and are desperate to get themselves up to the standards and really want to aspire to the aspirations. But there just isn’t. Any sort of funding that is earmarked for upgrading it tea or connecting your networks, or doing any of that if you’re including this in, if you’re if you’re a grants partially grantspace porter or condition partially, of course, because you want to be very diverse and your fund-raising including that in grant application, is that realistically no, no, i think if you’re right, it is important to running your programs and someone sponsoring your someone supporting your programs. It’s a direct and sometimes indirect, but often a direct cross for your programs. And obviously each organization has to analyze what it is for them when they’re making the application on. And i also think that we should be we should be thinking there are lots of really wonderful tech organisations that work on non-profit tech and i know you’re about to talk about why i’m probably they’ll do it not now. Thank you very much. Not intend. Non-profit technology network uh and and tien and ten dot or ge, of course. Amy sample ward, the ceo is a regular contributor on this wonderful, you know, maybe sample, you know and who she’s wonderful on the show every month welchlin cubine i’m returning, it gotta get it back now. She’s back off maternity leave, but yes, and ten, of course, or amy’s on every month, i go to the int’l unconference every year, i’m just saying i captured thirty interviews in the last twenty sixteen conference. I’ll be back, i’m sure twenty, seventeen lots of and ten videos at ah, my youtube channel, real tony martignetti and also lots of n ten interviews, lots of technology interviews here on the show. Okay, just let’s. Stick with area six, the six area, just for another minute or so before i go to a break. Sharon, basically, i mean, you want to see investment in technology resource? Is that technology’s actually supporting mission? Someone’s responsible somebody’s responsible for it. And again, this is a hard position teo create as a full time employee at an organization, right? And so we don’t think that responsible employment means that you have to have an afternoon for you, you know, on on on your payroll. But we do think that you have to be working with a night provider who is reputable, who knows what they’re doing, who is responsible. And, you know, it can often create many crises in the ways that you know firewalls, air down or whatever that are in critical to the organization. So they have to be someone you can rely on is well and making sure that you’re thinking about this is an interval business structure, strategy procedure, potter, not an ad on exactly equal to your to your business to your mission. Exactly. Okay, we’re gonna go out for this break. When we come back. We’ve got two more areas communications and fund-raising stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have for her. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Did you think that i had forgotten the live listener? Love perish, perish the thought live listeners, wherever you happen to be, were pre recorded it’s ah it’s the end of september, right now, september twentieth, and were pre recorded but the live lister loved it goes out the live love is out, so wherever you, whether you are domestic or foreign, here or abroad live listener love goes to you, and ah, but send this in the yeah let’s handle ah, linguistic live love konnichi wa r ni hao on your haserot come sodom, ham, nida. And if you happen to be listening in mexico, which often is the case point a start is if you’re in the czech republic. Dobre din german gooden dog us live love to you accompanying the live listener love has to be the podcast pleasantries because we have over ten thousand listeners from itunes, stitcher and then smaller platforms like player in pod bay and the one in germany couldn’t talk two to all those podcast listeners that’s, the vast majority, the audience, all the audiences i’m grateful for, but the vast majority happens to be in the podcast audience pleasantries to all. Those listeners, all of you, each of you and our am and fm affiliate affections have to go out. You’re going to do the live. Listen, loving the podcast pleasantries. You have to do your filling affections or am and fm stations throughout the country. Let your station know that you hear non-profit radio on their station on your station. They would appreciate that. Feedback. I would appreciate that. Affections to our affiliate listeners throughout un tree melkis alvarez let’s turn to you for ah, our seventh area communications. They should be strategic, effective and build brand what you want, let’s? Open it up broadly. What’s this about. So what is this about? So this is about effective communications and planning. We think that communication should be strategic and integrated again. As we’ve said before, communication should not be an ad on or something that is just done every once in a while, communication should engage thie organization in terms of programs and other key areas of operations. It should be a organization wide conversation, and we’re proud to do that at and pc. See if we can put ourselves on the back. Andrea lee, i think that one other thing to know about communications is that it’s it’s two ways, right? So it’s, not just about what the organization is putting out there, but also how are we responding to what our key stakeholders and audiences are telling us? Are we listening right? And so it sze that feedback loop the loop and being mindful of the feedback that we’re getting and being responsive to that as well annual annual report, you want to see a robust annual report, right? So that is, i think, one of a key marketing to elena and a fund-raising tool that many organizations use and it’s it’s meant to highlight thie organizations, accomplishments from the prior year and so that’s one key way that they can communicate impact of the work that they’re doing, i would say that that’s external facing for the most part, this area also considers internal communications and the power of effective communications, too inform and motivate staff on dh so just making sure that that communications doesn’t stop with social media or e blast, but really thinking about how staff are communicated with as well. Um, you’re looking for hyre understanding among lots of stakeholders that they can act as representatives, outward facing representatives of the organization and that their empowered to do that right. So boardmember is there’s a good example? Right? So how can they be strong ambassadors for the organization? Bond? We we’ve seen organizations do this successfully when they prepare they’re boardmember sze to be effective champions, making sure that they can communicate the mission and the values of the organization and to be able to really speak to the impact of the programs and the effectiveness of the work. Other volunteers to rather volunteers. You want them, you want them to be empowered? Exact. We want people talking about the organization that they love, that they’re spending time or money with or, you know, i mean, these are critical. Resource is people e-giving you want you want them in power, right? You all right? See one of these? Oh, you have a nice ah, organization has this a standard organizations confidentiality and opened this policies and procedures sabelo about the openness policies. Is that is that basically we were were talking about yes, that is that. Okay, cover that. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And then confidentiality what’s that related to well, that you have the proper safeguards in place to protect confidential information both of the staff, but also of donors. A. Cz. Well, you wanna make sure that you have the systems and policies in place to make sure that that information doesn’t go beyond the organization and that only the folks that need to know it have it. I love the one two that’s ah sites website content updated regularly. Having this static website is not going to encourage people to visit on dh, melkis says. You said the communication is to go beyond social media, and that includes your website, it’s basic. But for for guess that we’ve had on this. Well, kibby larue miller was on recently because i interviewed her as part of a panel, of course. She’s, the non-profit that marketing guide guru, guru. But give you a room, miller’s been on, and you could search a tony martignetti dot com for branding or marketing communications. We’ve had lots of other guests on talking about that. Let’s, move on. Two fund-raising general, you don’t need us for this, tony. You could do this one way. Natural not fund-raising plan e-giving fund-raising and the child administration work i do. And that’s ah, minor minor part of what you’re looking for here, that resource development is strategic donor-centric and effective, the chief executive and development staff, together with the board, set the fund-raising strategy. Why? Why is that important sharing so inclusive? I think you can. And this goes back to actually what i think melkis was just talking about in terms of of who could be your ambassador for the organisation. What you were saying about multiple people should be able to talk about the organization, and then also something you said earlier about, which is also ah focus of this area that you’re fund-raising has to be diverse in order for it to be sustainable, right? And so you can’t really rely on one type of funds and be sustainable on along over a long period of time. So hear what we’re saying is the strategy to raising money can’t just come from the development director who says, okay, that’s, why i think our options are can’t just come from the d a who says okay, this so i know or can’t just come from the board saying, like, okay, this is what we need to do, it has to be a group activity and a group strategy because everyone is going to be deployed in that strategy, and you need to be able to have people understand what it not just what the strategy is, but where they’re headed in the long term. So we think that that work has to be done holistically in the organization, ok, wait can’t spend as much time on fund-raising as we did the other areas as critical fund-raising is so what i would like to do, sharon, is where can people find these areas and all the bullet point of this, some tub sub areas and the bullet points that we’ve been talking through? Where who knows best where to find that going to be on our website? Www dot n pcc and why dot orc and you can visit our non-profit excellence awards tab all of our resource is and compilation of prior years best practices are available there, okay? And this is an incredibly valuable fourteen. Page document really, really valuable melkis we have just a little under a minute, but i want to cover the education part of this. You have a webinar for each of these a day, a key areas, right? Yes. So we have a subsequent pathways to excellence workshops where we bring back past winners to really detail they’re winning practices in each of these areas, and again, they’re meant to promote ongoing learning. But i would say that the the biggest way that organizations learned through this process is by applying and putting together their team and going through the application process and getting the tailored, comprehensive feedback from our experts selection committee. Excellent wrap up, you’re going to find that it np all of this at n pcc. And why dot org’s and i apologize that we kind of ran out of time and we didn’t cover fund-raising to the extent that it deserves that really is that’s that’s my fault? I didn’t quite manage the way i like to, so i did not meet the aspiration today for me next week. There’s no show it’s. Happy thanksgiving next week except for our am and fm affiliates, of course. I will find a very good archive show for you. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com pursuant is pursuant dot com. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. This music is by scott steiner. Brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is pa public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for April 15, 2016: 8 Areas of Nonprofit Excellence

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Michael Clark & Melkis Alvarez-Baez: 8 Areas of Nonprofit Excellence

The Nonprofit Coordinating Committee Excellence Awards are based on tough criteria that reveal the right way to run your organization in areas like fundraising; management; board; financial; and diversity. This is from the show on March 6, 2015, when Michael Clark was NPCC’s president, and Melkis Alvarez-Baez was their director of programs. They explain all the standards.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host it’s tax day. I hope that doesn’t make you cringe just think about next year when you’ll have until april seventeenth, two extra days next year see how generous the irs is to you. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into thrombosis, ida pina, if you dealt me the low blow that you missed today’s show eight areas of non-profit excellence the non-profit coordinating committee excellence awards are based on tough criteria that revealed the right way to run your organization in areas like fund-raising management board, financial and diversity. This is the show from march six twenty fifteen, when michael clark was and pcc’s president and melkis alvarez-baez was their director of programmes. That explains all the standards on tony’s tech too our contributors, we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuing dot com also by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay for mobile donations. Crowdster dot com here are michael clarke and melkis alvarez-baez with eight areas of non-profit excellence, i’m very glad teo welcome it’s, a pleasure to welcome michael clarke and melkis alvarez-baez to the show, michael is president of the non-profit coordinating committee of new york. He has thirty five years of training and experience in urban issues, public health and non-profit management, and they are at n pcc. And why on twitter melkis alvarez-baez, director of programmes at non-profit coordinating committee of new york, one of the programs she directs is the new york community trust non-profit excellence awards that we’re talking about today and she’s at melkis alvarez-baez michael melkis welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. Pleasure. Pleasure. Tio be able to spend the hour talking about some, i think extraordinary guidelines. Eight specific areas. That non-profits good. Very much benefit from michael, our president and pcc, new york. Where were these eight areas of excellence come from that? The awards are based on well, it’s. Funny. You should ask tony. We we actually little karin answer for that. I didn’t prepare nasco and not only prepared but it’s the truth. Ten years ago we looked around the country and we realised there are thirty six regional associate state and regional associations of non-profits like ours, representing a total of about twenty five thousand non-profit organizations and nineteen of them have developed their own standards for what are the key areas of management that you have to do really well, so that your organization performs at a high level and as a ceo so you don’t get fired. So the point is we took a look at those we identified even though they don’t quite agree with each other. We said we’re gonna fight eight areas that that they all had in common. Okay? And we decided to use those eight areas to build a slightly different kind of programme. Most of those are certification programs. You take a workshop, you passed the test, they say, okay, you’re certified in financial management. You certified in this, we thought we would create an aspirational program, one that really talks about what did the excellent practices and financial management look like? What did the excellent practices and communication look like? Because i think these days, most people are trying to figure out how to make the organization’s perform better. So these air guides to how to make your organization perform better in those areas and quite well detailed. We’re gonna have time since we have the full hour. Get into some of the detail of it. Um, now, only nineteen of the thirty eight organizations had had standards of sometime. That’s only that’s, only half. Yeah, that’s all within the last five or ten years. It’s a trend that they’re gradually developing these program or more. Yeah. No kisses, nothing. Yeah, i think last time i checked, it was actually twenty one of them that had some sort of standards program. It’s growing. I just came from our national conference, and we talked a lot there about standards of excellence programs and also about the excellence awards program and where they were one of only two organizations that has an excellence award. Strauss cool. All right, the other one is washington d c right now melkis this is a lot more than an awards ceremony, right? Maybe there’s let’s talk about the workshops that aaron get involved all year. You’re raising really the level of lots and lots of non-profits whether there in the awards competition or not. Yeah, we actually like to say that the awards is uneducated schnoll program disguised. As an awards program on and it’s quite lengthy process from march to november, culminating in that final award ceremony where we sort of announced three winners but really the entire process, even the application is meant to be educational for applicants, so that there’s something for all of the organizations that go through the process, even those that don’t win, right? And the idea is that by going through this application process, they’re learning about their management practices and how to improve them. At the end of each awards program, we also put on a siri’s of workshops that are actually going on. Now they’re called the pathways toe excellence workshops in the idea with those is to really disseminate the best management practices in each of these eight key areas that we’re going to talk about from past winners of the awards. And it was that award ceremony last november that motivated me tohave the two of you on the show because i was i just was so taken by how no, how the organizations had risen to the to the challenge of the eight areas that there were three organizations on stage, but i know there’s lots. Of lots of organizations a z i said, i mean, even even beyond the ones that are in the competition, there’s lots of organizations learning a lot about very, very good practices. Andi was just i hadn’t i hadn’t heard of the awards. Sorry to say i hadn’t heard of them before i was invited. Okay? All right, well, i’m too i’m helping you. We’re getting it out to ten thousand more people. Yeah, i was invited to go boyfriend hey. And i went and i really was was taken by the descriptions of the organizations out there with the three that were on the stage, the finalists and just the overall explanation of the eight areas. So welcome. I’m glad i’m glad i was there going. You’re the practices. The good thing about the program when you come to those awards and when you sit through the best practices workshop is you’re listening to people that have actually had to implement these things. Yes. So this is not somebody’s theory about how to do this stuff. This is this is just a lesson straight from the field, right? How they think it has a has a i think non-profit managers recognize that right away it has an authenticity that you wouldn’t necessarily see if you read a lot of books. There are something over seven million entries and google for non-profit excellence. Okay, it’s, a confusing world let’s start to get it let’s start to get into our eight because because there are eight, and i want it just as an overviewing i’m going to take them off, okay, if you’ll allow me great. So people know what’s what’s coming up, the first we’re going to talk about is effective and ethical fund-raising and resource development overall management focus on results, governance structure that moves the organization forward strong, transparent and accountable financial management, diversity and culturally competent organizational practices. Enlightened use of human resource is that’s interesting, enlightened use appropriate and reliable information technology it systems and regular ineffective communications and use of communications technology. That’s where we’re headed let’s start with thea the fund-raising and ethical effective unethical fund-raising and resource development let’s start with you, michael, the one of the things that there’s lots of bullets under all of them. And we obviously do not have time for all that for each bullet. That’s impossible, but let’s ah, let’s talk let’s. Look at a couple like fund-raising revenue streams are as diverse as possible. What are we looking for there? Why is it important? You’re looking for something that looks like a pyramid and a lot of non-profits finances looked like an inverted pyramid are the words you’re looking for some money coming from private donors, some money coming from foundations, some money coming from the government, some money coming from corporations and that there’s a very simple reason for that. If you have only one source revenue, then you’re extremely vulnerable to changes in politics or changes in foundation trends or changes in whatever that one sources so better toe have you that that’s very risky? Yes. So you you know, just to keep it to be a sustainable is posits a big word in the nonprofit sector. Sustainability to be a sustainable is possible. You want tohave as diverse range of sources of money as you can get the the board. So i’ll tell you what we’ll may well go back and forth. So you know michael will cover. Well, michael will cover the talk about the fund-raising and then melkis will do the next area. Okay, we’ll be all right. But then chime in two, you know, i mean, let’s have a conversation. I don’t mean to shut you off milk if you want to add something about effective ethical fund-raising please do. Okay, um, the board overall responsibility for raising funds to meet the organization’s needs the responsibility fund-raising resides with the board, michael, it actually does. You know, there are three basic principles built into non-profit law about what boardmember we’re supposed to do, and one of them is called the duty of care, and that involves making sure the organization is sustainable and has revenue. A lot of board members walk onto boards and never realized that we do a lot of training with board members and coaching on they say, really, i’m supposed to help them raise money? Absolutely it’s part of its part of the job of being a boardmember so, you know, boardmember is frequently represent very different kinds of backgrounds than the managers, but they bring a lot to the table, and we’re looking for one hundred percent annual giving on the board. A good standard is tohave one hundred percent above board giving something personally. Some board set up a number something just say, give something that’s meaningful to you, but somehow you one hundred percent giving you what that is that if your board members aren’t giving, then it’s hard to convince others to give to your organization. Sure, they’re your key, your key volunteers right there. You’re a prime stakeholders if they’re not doing it, why should others? Yeah, cool. Um, let’s say i’ll tell you what, let’s let’s go out on a break and when we come back, we’re going toe we’ll get through our next area, which is going to be overall management focused on results, and we’ve got six other areas after that, so hang there with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s do live listener love let’s do it early because we got a lot manami wisconsin love it, my nominee. I love that st louis missouri would bury new jersey, new bern, north carolina will be there in a couple weeks in north carolina. Anyway, new york, new york live listener love to each of you will go abroad a little later on got to send out the podcast pleasantries, people listening in the time shift on any device, anytime podcast pleasantries to you and our affiliate affections love our affiliates throughout the country, lots of affection going out to them melkis let’s, look at this overall management focus on results and why a well defined mission statement is important. Yeah, i mean, i think mission statements contend to be kind of cloudy sometimes they’re up there, right? And this area really has to do with organizations defining the difference that they want to make people’s lives in the communities that they’re serving, and then setting sort of milestones and benchmarks to assess and track their own progress towards that difference right towards the impact that they ultimately. Want to it? See? And there’s a point made that it’s ah it’s. A well defined mission statement so narrowly focused. Ah, what else? Well defined geographical focus also, you know, in terms of when it comes to what the selection committee is looking for, a strong response in this in this question, they’re looking to get a sense from the mission statement. What an organization does, right. And ultimately, if an organization has to take a paragraph toe, explain what they do, then perhaps it’s worth revisiting the mission statement. Okay. You mentioned the selection committee. Who is the selection committee for the awards? Yeah. The selection committee is a group of about thirty two consultants non-profit leaders. That’s a big committee. Yeah, many of thirty two. Yep. And the idea is that we have about four people strong in each of these eight areas. Okay. Oh, i see. All right. So there’s target over their teams. Some committee’s subcommittee. Oh, excellent. Okay. Um, expert consultants and technical assistance air used when they’re needed. Yeah. What’s what’s a focus their you know, this is an area that can get really expensive, you know, to do long term evaluations for example, and so consultants provide a service that allows organizations toe improve upon this practice, especially if they can’t do it. I’m themselves. Last year, rome, new york, during their site visit, spoke about their use of consultants and row in new york was one of the three finalists. Yes, that i saw on the stage. Three winners for one of three winners, right on dh. They spoke during their site visit, which is the final stage of the selection process about how they had used um ah, consultants teo improve their own performance in this area to assess thie impact of their work. Remember what kinds of consultants they were using? Let’s. See? So in one area they were working to improve their boards performance and making sure that they were setting expectations on dh, that the responsibilities were clear. So, you know, this area about tracking results is not just about program results, but also about organizational results as well. Yeah, okay. The organization uses reflective learning. What is that? It’s an organization. You know, it’s a practice that organizations are being mindful of what they’re seeing, and then reflecting back on that. So saying, well, why did that work a certain way, or why didn’t that work a certain way? As we expected, perhaps, and then coming back and trying to take steps to sort of address whatever you know, they did see what the result wass, you know, so they’re not just resting and great results, for example, but they’re trying to see how can they be even greater? And if something doesn’t work, then how can we improve upon it going forward? All right, how about we go to aa governance structure, michael governance structure that moves the organ move the organization forward, that’s what we do, yeah, we do more that i functional agreement, our experience high performing non-profits and i say this without exception all think of the relationship between their board of directors and their top manager, usually the executive director of the president as a partnership. I say that because when i came into the sector thirty five years ago, there was a tendency to see the board as the governance body, and they made the decisions, and they made the policy. It never really worked like that. But it sounded nice on paper. But the truth is, if they’ve got to work together because both of them play essential roles in making sure that the organization is is working at its optimum. And there are a lot of details to that, as you know, but the point is, you know, it’s it’s just to make sure that everybody’s on the same page and we’re all moving in the same direction, and that we have some markers for determining whether we’re getting there. One of the standards is that the individual board members and the board overall is regularly evaluated key huge print, huge thing people think, well, the board should be evaluating the executive director of the year it’s true that’s true, right? The government governance committee or some other body should be evaluating the performance of the board as a whole and the performance of every boardmember because it really is a job. And you want to make sure that everybody’s playing on the team think of think about rowing about like rome. New york does every day and you get imagine if eleven people are growing really well on one person’s decided that this is lunch time. You’re not gonna have a high performing rowing team? Yeah, teamwork. Is what non-profits take toe work effectively. Um, new board candidates get a recruitment prospectus and site visits. It’s a big deal. What should be in that recruitment prospectus? We look well, a lot of things that expectations. Ideally, you’d have a job description for board members. You have some sort of description of the kinds of functions of the different committees on the board. How will you be evaluated a year from now? So people know what they’re working against. You know what with what will this test cover, as they say in school and, you know, it’s it’s way give people in our organization we give people the last six meeting’s minutes so they can sort of get a flavor for how the board talks about things. We have ah, charge to every one of our committees that says not only what its duties are, but sort of what its goals are. Our contribution should be, i presume. Non-profit coordinating committee of new york is adhering to these eight standards we try, we were working in its very aspirant. They’re very aspirational really mean. They are it’s and it’s. A constant, innovative process. I can’t. Exactly. And the exciting thing. Tow us is about fifty percent of the people that apply now have applied before that’s exactly way we structured. The weight is fifty percent of the organization’s. Oh, oh have r repeat people keeping one of they want they want to do more. They want it. They want to come back to the inn are most positive. Feedback comes from people that don’t win. They say this is the best thing we ever. It was an enormous amount of lorts cream it’s the best thing we ever went through it’s better than strategic planning, you know it’s it’s ah it’s better than anything else. We’ve tried and we and we didn’t win this year, but we want to go through again next year. We have part of a big part of the reason too. That is melkis gives everybody on our toe now on behalf of detailed feedback in a conference call after the committee of the committee of our two hour and a half, you here’s here’s what the committee said about your communications here’s what the committee said about your financial management hears so mary’s where you need to improve that’s what would cost most? Non-profits a lot of money and, you know, and paid consultant and how many organizations do you do that for? Its offered to everyone that applies. So, for example, in twenty fourteen, we had seventy seven applicants. I’ve done feedback calls with fifty three of them so that’s, about seventy percent of them. Okay, that’s, a big commitment on our part, you know, toe invest that time. But as she said, it’s, really from our point perspective, a training and consulting and coaching program mohr than a competition in the competition is it’s like the voice, you know, see the voice on television. You know, the big payoff in the voice is not whether you win that particular cycle, it’s, that you get to be part of some, you know, master, musical persons team, and you’re going to learn a mountain from that. Well, we hope you learned a mountain from our whole application process. All right, excellent. Um okay. Another one just under the governance structure. That expectations are understood by board members, i guess. That’s part of that probably reflects on the prospect. The recruitment prospectus. Yeah, it does. But it’s it’s also something that needs a constant refresh because board members, i think a lot of them have sort of fallen into ah, dreamlike stand trance where they believe, you know, my job is to come and make sure that the staff’s doing a good job and pat him on the back well, that is part of their job. But there are a lot of other parts to their job, and they they need to do it. And sometimes i need coaching and coaxing and and help and all sorts of stuff, all of which is part of the picture. But staff does a lot of the driving of that process. But boardmember sze have very definite responsibilities just ah, quick. When do you think that these this the recruitment prospectus would that be something that signed by the boardmember i acknowledge that i’ve received a copy and i understand it. Is that that important? It some organizations do that. Some organizations have an annual commitment. Statement where every boardmember signs a commitment that this year i will help raise this amount of money this year with individualized goals. Yeah, this year i will attend at least seventy five percent of all the board meetings, committee meetings and so on. It’s not a light thing. You know, i had a governess, board chair, governance committee chair at a previous organization who used to say it’s the reverse of the old army slogan which used to say it’s, not a job. It’s a journey. He said, this is not a journey at the job. Yeah, it really today running a nonprofit corporation has never been more demanding, but it’s also, you know, one of those things where it’s really closely related toe having board assessments and having a report card, you know, of the entire board or individual boardmember because that’s another way to die, checkin on whether they know what is expected of them on and to remind them when they are not performing, and to acknowledge them when they are, you know, performing you know, i love the annual commitment document or something like that. And and of course, the individual boardmember zehr all being reviewed? Yeah, cool melkis let’s stay with you for ah, accountable financial management. What? Why don’t you? Why don’t you point out what you think is important there? Yeah, i think in this area what? And michael said, one of the buzzwords earlier sustainability, right? So the selection committee is really looking for organizations that are financially healthy and that are that are making smart choices in their finances so that they’re around five years from now, ten years from now, long long term write the other thing that they’re looking for here is how their mission is informing their financial practices. And sometimes we tend to think that those two things are separate, but are the finances informed by what is important to the organization? Right? So, for example, with leek and watts, who was our gold prize winner last year, they were really focused on making sure that their programs were being maximized because beds that weren’t full meant dollars were being thrown. What you tell us what we can watch those? Yeah, sure. So lincoln watts has a school up in yonkers. They also provide tons of programs and services for juvenile justice, youth or kids that are involved in the juvenile justice and students with disabilities. They have programming for them as well. So it’s a pretty multi service organization. All right, so you want to see that alignment between financial priorities and mission and that correct mission statement? Yeah, exactly. Okay, um, adequate cash reserves. Yeah, the protect the organization against contingencies about that. Yeah. I mean, it’s sort of ties back to what michael was talking about earlier about having a diverse revenue stream. It’s all about making sure that you’re protecting yourself and having that cash available is critically important. This election committee looks for a minimum of three months of cash reserves, but ideally at least six months. And of course, you keep saying the selection committee, but we know that this is for all non-profits whether you and to the end of the competition or we’re just or not, it has been an area of serious advancement in the nonprofit world of management of governance. In the last twenty five, thirty years, there was a time when people thought, well, they should operate in a break even, you know, they should just barely make it out because we don’t want a pile of money in the closet. And the truth is, you do that and you’re putting your entire mission at risk. It’s a very silly way to do business. In fact, there’s a standard here for ah working, striving toward a budget surplus each year. Yes, you should. You should want one of the simplest ways. And people don’t think about it is one of the simplest ways to build a surplus is to put it in the budget every year. Contribution of the surplus. Fifty thousand dollars on contribution of the surplus one hundred thousand dollars and treated as an annual recurring expense. And next thing you know, you look up in five years. So it’s not just an afterthought, right? Exactly. Well, not just what’s left over what’s left at the end because non-profit people tend to always could think of more needs and more things they can do and more activity. But you got to think about preserving your organization. I don’t like your own personal finances. Budget for savings? Yes, not just save what’s left of the exactly. Exactly. All right, all right. I’ll stay with you, michael. For ah, diversity and culturally competent practices. Well, this is a very rich area. The truth is diversity. I think most people understand what that means, but diversity’s important, we believe, for all kinds of companies, not just non-profit companies, but in the nonprofit sector where were frequently dealing with such a diverse communities it’s especially critical that we have boards that represent that staffs that represent that, and those are some of the questions that we and the practices that we focus on, representing the communities, that they’re serving exactly the populations, but there’s another issue in here, which is cultural competency, which is a little newer, but i think in many ways is more on point, and that is, if you’re working with populations that are that are each have their own cultural and language and other kinds of barriers to perhaps to dealing with you, you know, it’s part of your job to make sure that you can communicate with him in ways that are understood and that you understand enough about the culture and the language to make sure that not only are you getting the word out, but also you’re getting communications back. Yes, there is, and i think we’re going you have it in one of those standards, regular feedback from the communities that you’re serving. Yeah, there’s a great example. There’s, an organism wonderful organization, bronx works that that about five years ago applied and when asked about diversity said, well, you know, they’re in the bronx and they said, well, you know, we have several people on staff to speak spanish, and i think at the time, they thought that was a good answer, but the selection committee actually dinged him on that because the bronx today represents a very diverse number of ethnic communities, and it goes way beyond the sort of historic image of the puerto rican south bronx. So we came back this past year, and i asked them that same question, and they explained that they had the capacity now to trance simultaneously translated thirty four languages, that they had people on staff speaking nine of the most frequently spoken languages in the bronx. And they want outstanding that’s. That what that’s a what a great story. That’s. Terrific. Um, you have about a minute left before we, uh, we take a little break. Um, the organization regularly assesses in response to emerging needs. So that’s. That’s a big part of that feedback you’ve gotto do you know what your community’s needs are? Yeah, because the truth is not a static, especially in new york city, no place like new york city, where neighborhoods turnover constantly in terms of ethnic and demographic, another composition just look at brooklyn or queens in the last ten or fifteen years, so what you want to do is keep making sure that the geographic area is serving on the issues that you’re working on, connect with those realities outstanding. All right, mohr with michael and melkis coming up first, pursuant and crowdster i’ve talked to their ceos, both of these guys, you are focused on small and midsize shops just like this show, and just like i am, trent recur at pursuant, he has thirteen years working in small and midsize non-profits he gets your fund-raising challenges he’s lived them day in and day out and that’s. Why pursuing tools are made to overcome those challenges so you will raise more money pursuing dot com over crowdster the ceo there, joe ferraro, he and his wife, hanna run a small charity, and he used to be a marketing executive at t he knows your challenges also living them now each day and he’s at crowdster applying corporate marketing to overcome these challenges. That’s why, they added apple pay for mobile donations they’re peer-to-peer micro sites, they’re simple to set up elegant crowdster has terrific support. You are not going to be doing this alone just ah, talk to joe yourself. Joe ferraro, joe dot ferraro at crowdster. Dot com talk to the guy now. Time for tony’s. Take two. I am so grateful to our three regular contributors, amy sample ward, maria semple and jean takagi. They are by no means regular, like ordinary. They’re exemplary. The time they put in to prepping were even before prepping. But just thinking about topics, you know they’re always out thinking about topics emailing me here. This could be good. How about this? And nine times out of ten, whatever they come up with is outstanding. And i say, yes, let’s, go with it. And then the time that they spend preparing and then actually doing the show, you know they have to arrange their schedules around that. Obviously so, you know, very very grateful. Ah, i’m thanks. Latto have amy and maria. And jean on the show, month after month, it’s been for years, all of them jean has been the longest, like he was on one of the very first shows. So that’s, almost latto what we’re coming up on five years, six years come upon six years in july, and maria and amy, like four years or something, you know, it’s just enormous gratitude to the three of them. Thank you so, so much that’s. Tony’s take two now here’s michael and melkis continuing with eight areas of non-profit excellence melkis i think i think it’s your turn all right, let’s sound right for the enlightened use of human resource is what’s enlightened use? Um, so enlightened use means that that organizations are sort of maximizing the talent that is available of them, that they are taking care of their staff. And what else? That they’re sort of using their staffs experienced, tio benefit the organization. Okay, uh, another area in that and there is making sure that your risk level for your staff and three organization is as low as possible so that you don’t allow your organization be blown off course because of something didn’t expect and for that matter, you don’t subject your staff too. Such stressful conditions that it’s bad for them. So it’s it’s, really? The karen nature nurturing of your staff, as well as optimizing with one of the standards, is professional development opportunities, internal and external melkis yeah, so that’s something that the selection committee members really look for in strong organizations is that they’re investing in their staff, right? And so that khun b you know that can take the shape of online universities almost that are created for larger napor imitations and their staff, or something as simple as belonging to end pcc and sending your staff to the workshops that we put on that’s that’s you know something else that a lot of organizations tower in their own applications? Um, that there that there is a whistleblower and conflict of interest policies. Now i noticed those those specific policies appearing to two different standards. What? Why are those specifically mentioned whistleblower in conflict of interest? Well, one one big thing is we just wait. Just finished passing the first revision of the new york state, not for-profit corporation long forty five years and i served on the attorney general’s task. Force that created much of the draft for that and the truth is so so i’m only i’m only two levels. I’m only two degrees of separation from new york state attorney general, two degrees of separation. Well for mr snusz wish i had known you als, but the upshot is it requires now used to be recommended and now requires that every non-profit have a conflict of interest policy and a whistleblower policy, and not everyone was civil or you have to be above a certain budget level. But the point is that there’s much more law undergirding those doing policies. What conflicts of interest are we talking about this between morgan over primarily material conflicts of interest between your sister is the treasurer, right or or the money, you know says we’re paying we’re paying an insurance company. This is an actual example. We’re paying insurance company to ensure all of our operations, but it turns out you’re paying the insurance company more than they really charge, and they’re taking the extra and kicking it back to us. Executive director is just a couple of examples of flagrant abuse that’s about somebody just went what prison last year? For okay, for eleven years of that kind of behavior. And the truth is ah, it turns out this is far more important even than the audit. We actually raised the threshold for audits in the state from two hundred fifty thousand up to a million starting over the next few days. Give a break to the smaller organization exactly on it for what it is not because an audit is not it. You know, every one of the organizations that you’ve read headlines about people stealing money in the last fifteen years, they had a clean audit here before. So the point i’m making us it’s. Not that the auditors weren’t doing their job. They were. And on it is a very limited tools to assess the finances. Okay, and the conflict of interest part are we also thinking about conflicts between boards? Boardmember is doing business with the organization? Yeah. That’s part of what’s covered. Okay. Has a whole list of things. If your mother, brother, sister, grandfather, any people like the any relatives, children, you know, life partners or people are also being paid by the organization. Then you have to. You have to do a declaration. You have to fill out a form. Okay? Succession planning is a part of this too. That that’s part of risk is it is you don’t want an organization that has suddenly hit from sideways because executive director dies. Gets run over by a truck is the favorite example. Yeah, or just, you know, gracefully retired, whatever it is you want to know about that, you want to plan for it in advance. You want to have process established for how it’s going to work on big organizations. You might even have somebody in waiting in smaller organization to at least know what the plan is, you know? And it could even be a you mentioned could be retirement. Retirement could be corixa. Resignation could be sudden. And ideally, the person would stay until the replacement is in place. But maybe there next-gen job doesn’t allow that. Thinks that i mean, that could that could shake things up pretty seriously when the ceo walks in and says, you know, i’m only gonna be here another three months yet big deal. Okay, okay. I’m going back to melkis because you took over work-life. Um melkis information technology. This is this is big reliable we have reliable. So if we’re using windows x p still that’s ah, we probably do not have, which is totally unsupportive and has been un supported by window by microsoft. For i think a year now or something that’s, not a reliable system. Ok, yeah. So this area actually focuses more on like it. T infrastructure has a hole, right? But also i’m shallow, shallow examples of so here we’re looking at, you know, making sure that you have the technology that you need to make sure that the organization is efficient. That it’s, you know, sort of making everyone’s job a little bit easier. But also, you know, what roles does technology play in advancing your mission related goals? A cz. Well, so we often hear about how organizations are trying to use technology. Teo sort of helped deliver the programs and services that they offer. So eh? So i guess this this area is twofold. It’s about building that infrastructure to support your staff, but also the infrastructures to support your programs as well. Yeah. Ok. I see that disaster preparedness and disaster recovery planning is a part of that. One of the interviews i did we’re gonna have? Ahh we’re gonna have ahh half a show devoted to that because it’s one of the end and tcs reviews i got was exactly that. Why? Why so important? Well, we saw it with sandy firsthand, right? Organizations that didn’t have that solid infrastructure were unable to return toe work on dh basically were not able to provide services on dh programming organizations that had a more solid infrastructure we’re able to, even though they might not have been able to return to their offices physically were able to continue their work with pretty minimal interruption because they were ableto work remotely from home on. And we saw that, you know, with our own organization where a lot of us were able to work from home even though it was difficult toe commute into the into the office. Okay, andi, even if you can’t maintain fool full operations, at least you khun, you’re functioning, you’re in communication with each other, you can you can communicate outward to the people that you’re serving mean, at a minimum, you know, i think those things are important communications. What was your michael? What was the ceo there? President there? What was the post sandy like for ah non-profit coordinating committee? Well, it was quite hectic because a lot of organizations were, you know, trying to scramble to come up with solutions to problems that varied all over the map from literally being underwater toe having some of their system’s knocked out toe, having clients that were stranded in communities that were heavily impact about the hurricane and one of our winner is actually in the excellence awards program redhook initiative had had had the foresight four years earlier to build a wireless network in the largest public housing project in brooklyn, and it was it was done for the right programmatic reasons, the very reasons melkis just mentioned so they get communicate easily and cheaply out toe people that lived there, that’s the low income population so that those people could talk directly back to bradrick initiative and say, we need a program that does this, and we need some economic work on this and so on it’s very rambunctious programmed as a lot of stuff, and they didn’t plan it. I don’t think that’s a disaster response mechanism, but when the when the flood hit and then i think fourteen thousand people stranded in all these buildings with no elevators and very difficult problems with medications and food and stuff. They were all they were able nonetheless, in most cases to communicate, at least with every floor, and they were able to talk to people going to get people out, bring stuff in. So, you know, you forget sometimes you think of it and wireless services, you know, that stuff that you have to have a certain level of influence for, but, you know, when used public broadband and things like that, you can actually make it quite cheap, so non-profits air finding very innovative ways to use it, i think, okay, augment their mission, all right, and it’s part of the standards melkis thea, there should be a technology plan shouldn’t just all be happening haphazardly. We should actually should be planning our use of tech. Yeah, i mean, this is something that i feel like a lot of organizations don’t do but it’s a worthwhile investment, it helps you sort of monitor the systems that you haven’t place and thinking about where you’re going in the future and what sort of investment’s in you’re right, you’re going to need to make right. And that also sort of gets the different parts of the organization involved in talking about it. T as it relates to them as well. So, you know, it should not just be the Job or responsibility of 1 person, but really, it should be integrated until the entire, you know, organisation and its functioning. Yeah. Including the people who are doing the program work, everybody’s feeding in at least to the to the person who has the responsibility. Um, there was something that oh, yeah, the confidentiality standards, privacy standards. That’s a little about the importance of thinking about this. Yeah. And and this becomes a bigger issue with the following area as well. Communications. But, you know, there are organizations that do health related work that need to really be mindful of the hip standards on dh, the responsibilities that they owe to their clients to make sure that their information is protected and kept confidential. Okay, michael, anything you want to add on the on the side? No, just obviously, with all social media that are exploding. And with all the various ways in which people network these days non-profits have to be at least keeping up with that and making sure that they’ve got the ability to reach people and at least a lot of those ways, and this would this would flow back to the financial management. I think that should be budgeting for it for the support, the play and that we need to have in this area exactly it it is a growing budget item in a lot of non-profits lives, sure, and it cuts across communications and just basic infrastructure of technology. But it’s it’s pretty much an indispensable assumption today that you need that you think we’ll do with live listen, love, we got more new york, new york joined us welcome, welcome additional new york city people and madison, wisconsin joined us live listener love going out there to medicine let’s go abroad! We’ve got we’re in china! We’ve got wenzhao and tajol china ni hao, seoul, korea and young son korea love went south, south korea so loyal, always, always south korean listeners, please, on your haserot and going to japan, konnichiwa to honda and masato kenichi while we got hungary with us, we can’t see your city, hungary, but we know that. You’re with us live. Listen, love going out to hungary and bringing it back to you to the states. Middleton, middletown, middletown, delaware, joined us live, listener love, of course, those podcast pleasantries always and the affiliate affections so, so important. Okay, um, we’re moving on can hear me turning pages, uh, where we now with michael, right, michael, tends tio take over a bit, but really, sam, we got a minute for a break, ok, it’s melkis astern. Okay, melkis, we’re going tow. I’ll tell you what, let’s, go out for a break. Now. I think it makes sense to have our break now, when we come back, effective communications that melkis was just alluding to stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent and since we did the live listen love wigan uk joined us welcome, wigan live listen love out to you, marcus, you’re up communications and and use of communications technology why is this important? Yeah, so with this area were really focused on not just how organizations are broadcasting their own work and the services that they provide, but also, you know, going back to that piece of feedback, how are they asking their different stakeholders? Not just their clients, but they’re funders there? Other donors, they’re boardmember zeev anon volunteers? How are they asking them for feedback? And then what our organization’s doing with that feedback? So our communications out, and then we’re also listening in writing to be listening to our stakeholders, right? So there’s that focus on the two way communications bond with the stakeholders it’s not just about communicating with all of them and the exact same way there should be the communications practices should really be tailored towards the stakeholders and you would know, you know what works with them by sort of tracking the effectiveness of your communication strategies and also just by listening to them, right? So what is what is it that they like to hear about? How do they like to be communicated with all right? Critical? I mean, you know, you’ve got to go to where people are not not the channel that you want them to be on, whether it’s email or social media or your sight or you’re a blogger or live events, you’ve got to do where you gotta go, where they are, right, and with social media it’s not even just about, you know, being on everything that’s available, right? It’s about being really mindful about about how you use each forum. So, for example, the washington heights corner project was a finalist last year, and they talked about how they use social media for the purposes of of connecting with city officials, right? So if they attend events and didn’t get to shake a hand, they will tweet at the city official and say, sorry i missed you hope we can reconnect at some point, all right? So that’s a very smart use on very targeted use of one particular media and your point about not being in all of them just because they’re exist when i was it. Ah, again non-profit technology conference this week few people mentioned, you know, avoiding shiny object syndrome just because there’s something new and shiny, a new network, a new social channel doesn’t mean that you need to be on it. Are your people there? Do they want? Do they want to hear from you? There doesn’t make sense for the age, the geography, the other demographics of the people you’re talking to it might not make sense for for your audience. I noticed that there’s something mentioned about formal and informal communication strategies. This could be just meeting people in the building where they live all right, right? Right? Or even, you know, mapping out sort of ah, touch strategy. Right? For particular people, for donors. Maybe where you’re going to map out, how many times a year going to speak to them and whether you know you want to make sure that, especially with funders this is true. You don’t want to make you want to make sure that each touches not an ask, right? So one of them might be, you know, how’s your daughter doing is she liking college? Write something very simple like that that’s that’s an informal check in but something that could go a long way right and says also a lot about how you communicate with with your you’re different audiences making the form nine ninety available is mentioned in this standard thiss area. And in a couple of others to teo to one or two others. Well, what you looking for? That nine? Ninety? It speaks the transparency of the organization. Is the organisation willing to put its finances out there for the public to review? Andi, think, michael, you can jump in here, but i am seeing that more and more of them are available online because it’s a testament to how the organisation sort of holds its self accountable by putting out there it’s, you know, it’s finances or others to see michael anything when we actually did a national guide to how to read the nine ninety and figure out what it means. Because it’s a complicated form, the iris requires it it’s not just a financial form and asked you to talk about are you still pursuing the mission that you were created for? Are you getting results? What is your board looked? Like it’s, it’s, a pretty exhaustive look at your organization from different angles, and they are all indeed online. But the truth is, you know, not every organization puts it on its own website was that my question would be where, where they’re accessible at the national level from an organization called guides guide star, of course, is that but for the for the committee, like now, i am going to focus on what the committee is looking for. Is that sufficient? If it’s if it’s killing one guy, they want ideally, they want to see your nine ninety on certainly they want to see it referenced on guide it’s our maybe a link or from your site? Yes to it on god, because the guy it’s different than a financial form because it gives the organization a chance to talk about its mission. It’s progress, it’s it’s ways of tracking progress and that sort of stuff. So you know non-profits have a cz jim collins once said, i really have to bottom lines. We have a financial bottom line and we have what they call a return on social investment and that’s the way in which you are are not fulfilling your mission. Are you changing anything in the world? And you should be able to track both of those things every year. Ideally, you’re nine, ninety and a certain sections of it that will help people figure that out. Are they making progress? So they helping more kids? Are they getting the kids not only into high school, but into college or they you know that sort of stuff? I had a guest. Ah, a couple of months ago. Now c p a huge tomb and the the conversation was about using the nine. Ninety as a marketing tool. The narrative sections instead of just copying and pasting from your mission statement, you use the narrative two to beam or if you save about what? About what your what your work is because because it is so widely available, use it as a marketing tool. Right? Um, all right, we just have a couple minutes left, and i want to talk some more about these workshops that are that that you conduct or are they strictly in person events or they on the web that others can take advantage of melkis pathway, sexson’s workshops are in person events. But what we do is we post the materials that are distributed at each of the sessions on our awards website, so folks can still i have access to all of the tools and templates that we share in person. Okay, cool it’s called pathways to excellent pathways. And, of course, the site organs of the sorry the organization site is n pcc. And why dot org’s? And where would people go to find the resource is you’re talking about melkis yeah, so actually, they would be on the awards microsite, which is np excellence dot f d n y dot or ge and there’s a a section for that on pathways to excellent say that. Say that you’re ill one more time, it’ll slower for the for the awards. Microsite yep. It’s n p excellence dot fc. And why dot or ge? Okay, i think there’s a link to it and the pcc. And why dot org’s? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You’re raising the level of ah, lots and lots of non-profits minutes. It’s important for people to recognize. This is not just ah, a competition. All right. And and those have start the workshops have started. You said march to november. So there started, right? We yeah, so we’ve conducted three of them to date. So the one on fund-raising one on results in one on human resource is going to more coming up. And for those folks who are in new york when what’s the date of the ceremony, i very much hope to be there. We might be talking about that, michael. Yep. So for the twenty fifteen awards, the date is november nineteenth. A location to be determined. Okay, excellent that’s. Michael clarke is president of the non-profit coordinating committee of new york and melkis alvarez-baez director of programmes also at n p c c and they are at n pcc. And why on twitter? Michael melkis thank you so, so much. Thank you, toni. This has been great conversation appreciate. Thank you. My pleasure. Next week, i’ll be back live, probably with mohr from the non-profit technology conference. Got over thirty interviews from there. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? Hyre? I don’t know. Responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay for mobile donations. Crowdster dot com. Our creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by dina russell, and our music is by scott stein. That’s right, scotty, be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for October 23, 2015: Diversity In Your Office & .ngo

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Fields Jackson: Diversity In Your Office

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Fields Jackson is editor of “Racing Toward Diversity Magazine.” We’ll talk about the business reasons for having a diverse workplace. (Originally aired on March 28, 2014)




Glen McKnight, Andrew Mack & Evan Leibovitch: .ngo

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We’re explaining the new top level domain–and its affiliated community–for nonprofits throughout  the world. Plus, a primer on how domains are managed by ICANN. I learned a lot! My teachers are Glen McKnight, secretariat of NARALO (it represents you!); Andrew Mack, principal of AMGlobal Consulting; and Evan Leibovitch, global vice chair of the At Large Advisory Committee of ICANN. (Originally aired on April 18, 2014 and recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN.)


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I grow a mesen ca mama if it’s spread that you missed today’s show diversity in your office fields. Jackson is editor of racing toward diversity magazine. We talk about the business reasons for having a diverse workplace that originally aired on march twenty eighth, twenty fourteen and dot ngo, we’re explaining the new top level domain and its affiliated community for non-profits throughout the world. Plus ah primer on how domains are managed by icann. I learned a lot. My teachers are glenn mcknight, andrew mac and evan leibovich on tony’s take two thank you, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com here is field jackson with diversity in your office. I’m very pleased to welcome fields jackson to the show. He is founder and ceo of racing toward diversity magazine buy-in adjunct professor at chicago state university, teaching entrepreneurial sales and marketing. He was recently named by diversity best practices as one of the five diversity thought leaders you should be following on twitter on twitter, he’s at flea jack that’s f l e jack, please. Jack feels jackson. Welcome to the show. Only at the pleasure of the text of the well it’s introduction. I call an introduction on ad, but yeah. I mean, you have good things going on. I want to share them with with everybody. Thank you, tony. My pleasure. As always. You have a little background in nascar that’s. Kind of interesting field. You have to have that’s, actually. How the magazine got started. What do you know? Actually, about about ten. About fifteen years ago, i was a part owner of a nascar team. And yes, that’s the cars that go round and round and stop for gas. And, uh, we were down in north carolina where i live. Uh, we were running for about three years. It was the bush grand national. Now, it’s, i think the nationwide series, but dr pepper was our sponsor. Uh, lost a ton of money, however, uh, it started my diversity durney as we were the first minority team tio breaking the nascar in over twenty five years. Yeah, nascar is not particularly diverse. No, it’s. Not so as you could imagine would lead to very interesting cocktail conversations. Yeah, around around what i was doing and, you know where i was doing it, but like any place, you know, nascar’s got some issues about diversity there, but again, one of things that tell people we always had a great time at the nascar tracks. I met some great people, like, you know, jeff gordon, the late dale earnhardt, so just met him wonderful people, but again, you know, with their diversity and the issues they had, uh, tell people even even in those environments, um, there’s always people doing great stuff. So even in a if that and i didn’t consider it a bad environment or tough environment, but even in tough environments, there are people that are doing the right thing. They’re people that are that are have a passion about making change, so we we tend to focus on the folks that are doing it the right way as opposed to throwing everybody under the bus. Yeah, you’re focusing on the positive, and you’re pretty explicit that if diversity of cultural diversity is not an interest to you, then that’s ok, right, that’s fine, i mean, it’s, not for everybody on dh there, there, folks, that, you know, diversity represents something that they’re totally against and then understand that. But for those folks that believed there’s diversity is not there is another way forward. Those are the folks that we’d like to have a conversation with. Okay, so the diversity doesn’t mean everybody’s got agree or love each other or hug or kiss, but diversity is, you know, respecting ideas and thoughts and seeing things differently, and sometimes when you, when you approach it that way, tony, you actually not that you completely changed what you actually see another way to do things which actually create creativity and expansion. And a lot of we think positive things. Um what? Why is there some discomfort around the diversity discussion? I think it’s it’s a fear of the unknown. You know, it’s uh uh, it’s like my friends, my friends are my friends because they’re my friends that we all like each other. We get along. I probably don’t learn a lot from my friends if that makes it. What do you mean they’re? I think i know what you want. You know what? Their friends, because we think a lot, yeah, like, like, i got to go to the same movies or our families enjoy the same thing, so, you know, i’m usually, you know, people are friends because we share similar interests it’s when you get into places where there is not the shared interest and background, are background or or culture or what we know, whatever that that variable is, yeah, there’s a natural fear that, um, you know, do i share the same thoughts or or culture or or beliefs? So again, it’s natural, you know, i’m not going to talk as much, i’ll be, i’ll be shy, i won’t offer any opinions, but that’s where i think leadership come in because, you know, if you’re building a business and once you get beyond and tony way, i see it once you get beyond yourself, you know, i’m a pretty good listener to me, it was just me, yeah, i’m i’m probably going to agree with everything, right? So the second i get beyond me that you entered the world of diversity, um, you know, so unless you know and the more people you get the mohr, you’re just going to expand the bubble so having that expansion, how do you communicate how to communicate which direction you’re going, how to communicate the idea of how to communicate, how you’re going to reach new new profit centres? How you going to reach new non-profit how do you communicate that that’s where that cultural conversation comes in, where it doesn’t? And this is where i think people get hung up doesn’t have to be comfortable. It’s it’s you’re trying to communicate an idea, and once people understand that you’re not doing it in a hostile manner, you’re genuinely asking questions because you don’t know. And now the explanation becomes okay, this is why i do this that’s why i say this is why i think this a cup of coffee is going to appeal to this group that’s where diversity comes in and that’s what we think the magic happens and the questions being asked in both directions are valuable mean, we should be we should be asking people seeking people were going to challenge our beliefs. Well, if it comes down to tonight and i call it the i think the wizard of oz is like the greatest management movie ever. Yeah, um, you had ah, young woman who had, you know, put together a management team on the run. Right? So she basically, you know, is going to grab a couple of people that, you know, what do you got what’s in it for me and explains on the run, they find out that we got to go see this wizard, so they put together this quick management team there there got some task and objectives and obstacles they’ve got to get to, but they finally get to the wizard and they asked the question and, like, anything, you know, it’s like, how dare you? So it sort when people after questions that that’s, the entry point that’s, the gateway and most people, you know, it’s well, i explained it. How dare you ask that question and that’s where you know the line, start to come up in the you know? Well, you know that’s where the sort of like the barriers and the bridges get burned, but that’s that’s the entry point you’re asking a question and it’s, a lot of people don’t even have the courage to dafs that’s the thing most people, you know, everybody understand and most people won’t, but there is the one you know, i could you go over part two again, and you get your head ripped off. Well, i’m not gonna get out of the question. Um, i didn’t agree with what went on, so, you know, because i don’t agree, you know how how willingly am i goingto take on this task? Because i don’t understand, i don’t know what’s going on and that’s where i think things break them. We have we have a couple minutes before we take our first break. Tell us about the racing toward diversity magazine. Rachel rachel, university magazine is a quarterly publication. We focus on the business case for diversity to your point tell me if, uh, if you don’t believe in diversity, we don’t think you’re a bad person, we don’t think that you know that if you don’t believe in it, you don’t believe in it just like anything else. But if you do believe in diversity, um, and you’re looking for opinions of facts or are different ways of looking at things, we want to have those stories that offer unique ways of people and how they handled different situations and you deal with major, you cover major brands there. The issue you showed me was i saw an article with about coca cola, coca cola, att and t uh, hewlett packard del um sid xo, toyota, we’ve got some major brands uh, and we’ve got major brands that are doing a phenomenal global work around diversity, so we focus on them because not only are they doing work around their corporation, um, but as you can imagine, they’ve got internal issues with women’s affairs, they’ve got supplier diversity efforts, they have just a number of efforts that make up this corporation, and are they doing everything perfectly right? No, but they’re they’re pushing the envelope where they’re actually become an example of how ah, global corporation can navigate and ever changing world, and they see diversity as business case that helps them navigate that world. So we we use them as examples to kind of show others that may be struggling in certain areas. Well, you know, you don’t have to figure it out, but you know what? Here’s here’s a senior v p of finance that’s in toyota that you know you may want to reach out to if you’re struggling with something, so we try to provide those examples of of best practices that people can now sort of model themselves after all, right? We have to go out for a couple minutes, fields jackson, of course i’m going to keep talking about diversity, we’re goingto learn from some of these companies. What is the business case we’ve been talking around it? What is that business case and of course, live listener love hang in there, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way, way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent feels jackson, what is this business case for diversity that we’ve been talking about? Uh, tony, we think it’s pretty simple, uh, business case for diversity, i think, started teo really expand when a small business owner named henry ford started a car company and he told his customers, but, uh, you can have any model t as long as it’s black it is custom, his competitors came up with different color, so i think they made mr ford sort of rethink his business strategy. So we look at anyone that’s in business on how many businesses do you go into, like a steak steak shop, steakhouse, and they’ve got one steak on the menu and just one steak, or you go into an ice cream shop and they’ve got they’ve got one one flavor of ice cream, so typically it’s the it’s, the variety of the flavors of the colors that attracts and keeps us with customers. And you’ve got those flavours because you’re looking to get a wider variety of customers that support your business. So the business case, i think, is all around us just when we start to talk about people. That people tend, teo now see that whole conversation completely differently, and we we don’t know why. Uh, we believe that if you’ve got a product and you’ve got, ah wide variety of people that enjoy that that’s going to be a healthy a support network for your business, as opposed to there’s one, you’ve got one customer that you’re relying on them. We think that’s a dangerous place to be for anyone, for non-profit for a corporation, you know, for for anything that that that that reliance on one. So just like the diversification of your portfolio that the financial people talk about, we believe the same holds true about that diverse business. Ditigal and the nonprofit sector employee’s roughly ten percent of our nation’s nongovernment, employee’s employee workforce, that’s, that’s a pretty large amount of people it’s between between ten and eleven million working in working in r one point two to one point four million non-profits depending on how you depending on how you count, what what is part of a let’s talk through what a diversity strategy looks like for a non-profit so from a from a non-profit standpoint, um, you know, if you’ve got a service, you’re doing something. Would you deny that to someone that or a culture or community that desperately needed? What’d you just say, well, no, we just serve one group i think part of the charters are we’re going, we’re going to serve and we’re going to eradicate or we’re going to we’re going to help this disease or cure or whatever it is. So the fact that you can get tome or more people, we see that as a good thing for everyone. So i’ma non-profit and i’m trying to hyre a more diverse workforce so that it reflects the the community that i’m serving. How do i? But the people who apply for my jobs only looked like me on only talk like me, and they’re all white and and male. How do i change that? How do i change that applicant pool so that i can get more diversity in it? What you would have to change because everybody looked like you. You know what, what’s the chain again? You know, maybe maybe somebody goes out and learn spanish, i don’t, but if every day was like you what’s the chance that that pool’s going to be even aware of what you’re doing so part of that it is now doing that that uncomfortable questions, you know, we’ve looked at our numbers, and it appears that we’ve got no one from this segment of the population here. All right, i got uncomfortable. Why is that now? Everything? Well, we we sent fliers. Okay, i know we did, but you know what? I’m just looking at the numbers. I’m just asking a question, folks, i’ve got nobody. So is there anyone that knows someone in from that community? But yeah, you know, one of the guys go see what your mind, you know, having him a lot of survey force. Would you mind? You know, you know what he would answer a couple questions about. You know what he even thinks you do. And part of that is now that uncomfortable question, you know? You know, mr jones, do you do you know what i do every time when your neighbor do you know what i do every day? No, i have no, um, you know, i do this and either he recoils in horror or he goes, wow, my grandmother has that, um, zoho we’re struggling. Fuck. Somebody to help fix it. Well, i’m telling you, we have a problem because we can’t seem to communicate to your grandmother. Do you volunteer? So again, it’s part of that conversation and nothing happens overnight. Tony, you know that it’s not overnight, but it’s part of that conversation where now you know the outreaches. Now, mr jones shows up at one of your meetings and he says, well, you know what? I could translate that for you because i’m going to bring this to a church where i know fifty, people would desperately need that and that’s that’s part of that, you know, looking at your numbers, who were serving we how can we do better and that’s an internal look that says, okay, are you comfortable with the hundred people in the room? Are you comfortable if you’re not, and you’re trying to expand our there another hundred that looked just like them? Or are there one hundred others that now i would need the service? We just don’t know how to communicate and get back aboard. So to answer your question, it’s part of that, that leadership that’s going a sort of force this uncomfortable conversation around. Getting whatever you do, some or more people that could that could use it or need it and that one okay, let’s move from employment to thinking about the people who supply your vendors, your suppliers, should we be asking about their diversity policies and looking for diversity among them as well? Absolutely. And part of that is when you look at diverse suppliers, they’re actually looking at businesses that are that are providing a good service to there customers. Um, cos that look at it that way, a tremendous amount of industry knowledge come from your supplies. Um, your suppliers, if they’re supplying you, they might be supplying fifty other stores that looked like you. So in conversations with suppliers, if you’ve got that type of relationship, their goal is to supply you more not to supply you left some most. Um, i don’t know you could, you know, sometimes, but if they want to do more than that, then what could we be doing better? That’s that uncomfortable conversation that, you know, if you don’t think you know it all, you come in here every day and you drop off these towels. What could we be doing that? Well, i’m glad you asked mr jackson, you know, the company called street, they do this really? On what what result? Won’t you take a ride with me to go over and then there’s a line wrapped around the building? Wow. Um now the question is, what are we doing that or can we do that? Or is there somebody there that’s providing a skill set or, you know, there’s an employee that we may need there’s there’s something that’s now expanding that network, so suppliers also, you know, usually have tremendous ideas about what makes their business successful and in making their business successful. Part of why they you’re buying from them is that you need that good in service. So if through that channel it could make you better that becomes a tremendous resource on the more diversity requires the mohr ideas that you’re going to get so of all your suppliers look the same. Well, you’re probably not gonna get a lot of creative ideas, but if your suppliers are diverse, they can also provide you customers, because now you’re you’re increasing your increasing supply, your increasing somethings that they’re going to tell their customers so people let us use that supply chain effectively find out that becomes a very good source of not only information, but it comes competitive talent, competitive information, potential employees, potential services and it becomes almost a part of the organization. If manage correctly and your value the divers input that you’re going to get, i want you to tell us a story. We have a couple minutes left tell us, ah doesn’t matter, it’s company or non-profit they struggled with diversity and with having diversity, whether it was among in their marketing and promotion, or in their workforce or in their vendors they struggled, they overcame it on dh how they did on dh just a couple minutes we have i’ll tell you a famous story. Okay, about two years ago facebook, zuckerberg, mark zuckerberg and i don’t know when but i i call them suck so okay, take his company public, right. So, it’s facebook uh, the the wonder kid, you know, come up with this thing in his dorm. Uh, you know, it’s going to change the world and how social media is and he’s going to go public. So zuckerberg posted the the wall street and they look at his company to go fuck there’s this there’s no women. Now, i think somebody remember, like, sixty five percent of users of facebook or women. Yeah, wellit’s probably at least fifty. I mean, but it would imagine i certainly imagine being higher than at least with monisha okay, maybe, but all right, look, look at the camera goes, i can’t i can’t find any. Well, um, you know, cheryl’s, aunt sandberg is there, and his sister, i see her running around offgrid, you know, it’s a lot to say so after he got beat up and he got beat up, one thing that was was refreshing was that zuckerberg didn’t dig in his heels like a lot of companies, and they still continue to say they can’t find women, and i tell him, you know, i can hear you, you know, fifty percent of the planet’s women you can’t seem to find women. Zuckerberg, you know, he took his medicine in about a week later, cheryl sandberg was on the board, um, and i think they’re actually bringing it actually brought another woman onboard. So unlike other companies that they would sort of resistance, you know, we can find women and, you know, you know, he took his lumps and it actually helped other aipo start up companies. I now realize that this idea that you just started in your garage that’s going to go global, you need to have a global footprint, so you need to start if they if they’re going to ask dr berg about this, they’re probably going to ask me, and you know, if i’ve got it, women on my board, um, it was fifty percent of my my my users being women, uh, they could probably help me navigate some things that probably wouldn’t cross my radar just because i’m a man. So that became a global case for for diversity uh, one that’s relevant right now, and i’m proud to say, you know, i’m proud of the work we have to leave it there. The magazine is racing toward diversity feels jackson is founder and ceo, and you’ll find him on twitter at flea jack f l e i j a c k tony’s take two and dot ngo coming up first. Pursuant, they’re just the right sponsor for non-profit radio. I love that they are with us. They’re made for you. Our listeners that aaron small and midsize non-profits you’re the ones who don’t get the headlines and nine figure gif ts or eight figure gifts and seven figure gifts are rare maybe never depending on the size your shop, but those three, four, five and six figure gifts i understand those are your life blood pursuing has the tools that help you get more of those gif ts that you need pursuant dot com thank you, i have to thank you for listening and supporting non-profit radio, whether you listen live or podcast or through one of our affiliates, if you’re letting me into your inbox each week with the weekly alerts about who the guests are. If you’re tweeting about the show retweeting about the show, by the way, twitter is a great way to get me. If you’re a fan of the facebook page, however, it is your loving and supporting non-profit radio. Thank you. I really am grateful for all our support. Thanks and that’s tony’s take two for friday twenty third of october fortieth show of the year here is dot ngo welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference two thousand. Fourteen note that hashtag it’s fourteen and tc we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c and joining me now are glenn mcknight, andrew mac and evan leibovich. And we’re going to talk about i can naralo there’s acronyms. We’re goingto flesh all that out and the new dot ngo top level domain all about domains and how these air all managed today. Glenn mcknight is secretariat of naralo, which is the north america regional at large organization. Andrew mac is principal of am global consulting and is helping with the launch of the dot ngo top level domain. And evan liebovitz is global vice chair of the at large advisory committee of i can gentlemen welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, evan, i can i see a n n the tell us what it is and why it’s important came. I can is the internet corporation for assigned names and numbers. It manages i p addresses, which is the machine numbers addresses of how machines find each other on the internet and the names of whatever dot com dot or ge got us dot uk of the names you used to actually translate to those. Numbers on how you get from your computer to wherever you’re looking for things every device connected to the internet, every single device in the world has to have a unique i pee or internet protocol address, right? If i overstated it, isn’t that? Is that right? Well, the problem is, is there’s a shortage of these numbers and everything, but i just need a number. You just agree with me that each single device that’s, right? So one person could have three or four easily i p address is right. You have your phone, you might have your ipad, you might have your desktop right and maybe have a fourth device that i can’t think about, maybe have two phones, so each individual device has to have its own unique i p address, right? You’re absolutely right. I can. The internet corporation for assigned names and numbers manages that that process is that right? The numbering scheme, as well as the naming scheme numbers and not right. Because in your address bar, i’m tryingto make this this’s relevant to every single person, absolutely who’s connected to the internet. So i’m not gonna make sure the relevance is clear when you go to your address bar, you either type in a name most likely or a number. And that all is an i p address at all. Or relates to an i p address and that’s how you get to a site or a device if you knew the number itself like one o six thought this thought this thought this you could type that directly into your browser. But most people don’t. I know that. Okay? Yes, but there is a number behind every name. So i have tony martignetti dot com there’s an i p address the number that that’s an adjusting itself. There’s a number behind that. That common name. Exactly. Okay. And if you think about it, if i can yeah, i can look at the andrew. It looks at the international policies around that. So it’s not just a question of the technical side, but also where is the internet going? What will the future of the internet look like? And it’s in a really interesting kind of public private partnership? Because it brings in people from many different sectors from the private world from the government world from the non-profit world. And they all come together to help design the policies that guide the internet as it goes forward. I can. I can is people. There are thie internet corporation there. There are fuller. This is a robot it’s important to understand that you think you want well, but the other thing to understand is that yes, there’s policies. But this is not about censorship. This is not about that neutrality. About that little sliver of regulations about names and numbers. Help me. Are there people are thie internet corporation comprised of people? Yes, or there is. There is an office in california and there’s offices in brussels. There’s officers in singapore where they have warm bodies that manage this. But there’s a massive community of volunteers that are. We’ll talk about it. It’s. Very bottom up. That’s what i think most people do not understand. I think most people think it’s dominated down top down. But it’s not and that’s. Where? The that’s where the regional at large organizations come in because there throughout the world. Right? Ok, now we’re going. We’re not tuna, rallo yet. Who appointed? I can to this role. How did they get that responsibility? Technically it’s a contract. With the department of commerce. So where did they come from? And let me explain, created icann the internet, as you, as you may know, was born out of a u s series of u s government contracts, right? He got big bird was originally a military was it was from the start, but yeah, profanity. So it was it was set up as an advanced way. I liketo, like, i don’t like to leave listeners with acronym, the defense advanced research project administration illustration, that’s, right, darpa and so darpa. And the idea was that we wanted to have systems that would that would be able to share data when bad things happen. Right then it migrated to you guys and probably know a little bit more about the academic side than i do, but been migrated to being a way of for academics to share data. And then as time went on, people realized that this was a really big thing, and it could have a lot more. It could have a lot more potential uses that wade initially thought it was a very exciting time, very exciting time and so that clinton was during the clinton administration. And they decided this is too big to just be held in the united states and that there’s a real value and having it be a global thing. And so there was a movement to try to create this. What is effectively a public private partnership that involves people from around the world. And then then then i can was born, and it has been moving in different directions to become more and more internationalist as time has gone on since the early nineties. Ok, ok. And, of course, where where i’m deliberately not mentioning the old al gore cliche. I’m so tired. Okay. All right now, let’s. Okay, so that is very interesting. Very, very i can. So now it is bottom up. So we have these these regional at large at large organizations throughout the world. Of which naralo the north america regional right regional advisory organs committee is one or the organization naralo? Well, i can has chopped the world into five region, so no, naralo is one of them. There’s, also one for latin american and caribbean, one for europe went for asia and one for asia pacific and one for africa. Okay, all these at large organizations throughout the world and they are helping to represent the people that are the people that are people, the individual internet users day in and day out, right? You’re not buying it. Domain. You’re not selling domain. You use them in your browser that’s, right? What does that mean? Well, so they thought the thought is that how does that relate to what i wait? Wait. Give it a chance. Okay? How does that relate to what i just said? Okay, if ford wants to have a website that you look at their cars, so ford goes out, they buy four dot com. And in germany, though, by four dot d e and so on and so forth. Okay, yeah. Then, it’s, they market to you here’s how to find us. All right, four dot com you type that into your browser, you’re not the one buying the domain. They’re paying money to somebody toe have four dot com. They’re buying an annual subscription to somebody toe have that? Yes, they’re paying to somebody else. They have four dot d and so on and so forth. Each of these top level domains dot com dot org’s every country. Has won so in canada’s dot see a uk, right? A you and so on. So there’s right now, there’s about twenty two dozen odd generic ones that aren’t associated with the country. Every country has designated their own and there’s about to be a very, very large expansion. Okay, we’re gonna get to that. We’re going to get there. Don’t worry. We have twenty five minutes together. Don’t worry. We’re not going to lose that. I know. It’s important. I happen to know, for instance, that morocco, the country, morocco is dahna emma. Because i have bought through bentley the custom earl. Tony. My name tony martignetti. Tony dot. So i know morocco is emma and you know, and in bit lee itself. Where is billy going through? I don’t know why. Libya. Libya, o b dot fulwider libya. Yes. Okay. Excellent. Who thought right? You do that. All right. You got the right people. Hear you, do you? Do you guys do well, that’s a rhetorical question for the three of you were when i was anywhere else than any other audience. That would be. That would not be rhetorical. If you see something. Dot tv. That money. Is going to the island of two tuvalu to value in the south pacific? Follow-up xero tuvalu otavalo alright to tuvalu. Okay, um, so well, all right. So i pay my money for the dot. Tony dahna emma. Andi. I paid it to whatever hover or domain director, you know where you bought it from? A registrar. Okay. That’s a recess, the registrar. And then they enter durney bought it from a registry. The guys who run the dahna registry makes sense within that within the country of morocco. So more cases in the case of morocco it’s run it’s, run by the whoever’s, the moroccan internet authority. Okay. In some case, it’s it’s managed by a third party because that you may have the technical skills. No doubt that the two blue government, in fact, i know that the two blue government uses uses it uses a third party that help them run that which is fine, you know? Okay, it’s good for them. But how does all this and how do do those relate to? I can’t. Okay. So i know there isn’t a direct relation. I mean, i know they’re not direct, but well, i hand through contracts essentially has relationships with the people that do dot com dot or dot net and the new ones that air coming around the ones that are the country codes. There’s. A little bit of a hands off relationship because that’s a national sovereignty thing. So i can doesn’t get involved in the national codes, but they coordinate them. So they do show up at the i can meetings. There is a relationship going, and they work on things like best practices. Okay, without i can we we would probably have duplicates all over the world. We wouldn’t be able to reach anybody. We’d have duplicates and triplets and quadrillion million connections thing. This is one of the things that tony that i think it’s really been important about. The way that the internet has developed is is that the real strength of the web is that it is a unitary web that there’s one place, that all of us can go where we can all meet online. So there’s, not a moroccan web and a saudi web. Yeah, and and and and and a senegalese web. And because of that, we can do so much more together and so one of the great things that i can has contributed, i think, is, is that it’s managed to keep the international community together, given them a voice so that all of these different groups, like the user groups, like the commercial groups like the government groups, can advise the board in such a way that we can keep the web together so that we can really leverage it to the maximum impact. So you’re you know, now you now you you have, ah user base that maybe mostly in north america say, but there’s no reason why this couldn’t expand out into different languages and all over the world non-profit radio. Yeah, and that’s, partly because of the web being, you know, tara unitary that’s one of the goals i think of i can is to keep it that way to try and get the most out of our way out of our ability to interconnect. But that also means satisfying the needs of people around the world. So you are now starting to see domain names that are in cyrillic that are in chinese script. There are in arabic or hebrew or hindi, and so they’re not in latin. Characters now you may not be able to read them. You may not be able to use them, but the people in china or saudi arabia that air using them don’t care if you do or not, because they’re targeting their own language audience. Okay? And of course, i could always get to the number that’s behind those, right? So if i i don’t know, i don’t know how i would do that. But i could. Well, if your key bird could do arabic, then you could type in arabic, drugged up there when you get it right. But short of that, there is a number behind everything. All those irrespective of the language that the address is in, right? Okay. In fact, you may have the arabic in the english pointing to the same number that conserve you in both languages have the arabic and the english pointing to the same number. Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. Still a unique number. That’s, right, number’s gotta be unique. Okay. All right. Now, let’s. Let’s. Bring glenn into the conversation because, ah, he’s, the one who brought this topic to me yesterday. And there is something very exciting happening for non-profits there’s. A new top level domain like a dot com dot org’s. Glenn, why don’t you get real close tonight? Yes, and tell us what’s going on? Yeah, so actually the expert on this that is actually part of the p i r implementation of dot ngos is avenged and you crossed it well, but i felt back you haven’t contributed yet and you brought this very interesting topic to me because actually the nancy spoke at the podium yesterday and and we’re at the inten conference and actually addressed the twenty two hundred delegates saying, hey, we have this new ngo as not-for-profits you should be involved and i thought it was important that’s why we did a birds of a feather yesterday that’s why were going around with our brochures on naralo informing the not-for-profits sector hey, the internet, internet governance, all the issues that are pertinent important to you actually there’s organisations particularly naralo that can assist you in this process. We’re here particularly to promote not-for-profits to join as a lexus with i can’t okay, andrew will turn to you because you are helping with the launch of a new ngo, top level domain and in fact i was just because you mentioned it the other day. I was three weeks ago in morocco doing really doing, doing radio in morocco, actually, as part of it, right and all that brought you here. So that means you’re tony dot mm, exactly, right? So i mean, i just thinkit’s the world coming together and so perfect, right? So the idea behind a sze yu know the and that’s we’ve discussed that the internet has these amazing possibilities right for an especially corporate for non-profits if you think about it all around the world, non-profits many non-profits find themselves confronted by the same challenges they find themselves in need of partners, they find themselves in need visibility they find themselves in need of additional resource is and things like that. And thie as the internet. Azaz evan was describing there’s a tremendous interest in in in expansion of the internet so that so that more people can get on board can more people could take it, take use of it. There were historically twenty some or first there were thirteen and they were twenty some different. But they called generics. And this generics working like calm and like net. On like organ and the people public interest registry that brought as and have been managing dot or ge looked at this expansion of the internet that was proposed a few years ago and said, hey, there’s, a real opportunity or, like calm like that is an open space, okay, you do not need to be a non-profit to have a dot or go the most many, many orders are very interesting, right? Most are, but you don’t have to be don’t have dahna same way that you don’t have to be a company to be a dot com, you don’t have to be a network to be a dot net, but that was the original taxonomy of it, right? So they said, hey, this may make real good sense if we’re expanding the internet out this make make real good sense for us, get have a specific, targeted safe space for ngos to congregate on the web, right will give them additional tools that will allow them to meet up that will allow them to do things and for people to find them right and have a high level of confidence that this is the’s are, in fact, real. Ngos and that stems out of for a whole host of reasons i mean, one is the desire for ngos toe work together much more closely, which there, which is a huge issue around the world. Second one is there’s much, much more cross pollination and much, much more cross work between ngos from the global north and the global south. Donors are asking for the ngos themselves are asking for it. And yet, if you’re if you’re an ngo doing really great work on hiv aids in mali, it may be very difficult to get visible outside of bamako, right? And if you’re doing it from, you know, a secondary or tertiary city, its most impossible to do it. How will this new top level domain so the so the idea behind it is that way we create a a safe space, you get a dot ngo, a dahna omg and access to a portal and actually the ability to put up a little basic portal. Paige, if you’re if you like so that you could be found, you could be searched and found easily so that you can be you confined partners. You can share data with them. And you can import your own donate button. You know you’re on your own. You’re on your own don’t donate app when every whatever you would use i would like to use so that you could receive funds directly when i was in morocco is a perfect example, right i was in was in three cities in four and a half days was in robot casablanca in marrakech. We had a long conversation with the people in marrakesh. And he said, how many tourists come to america shevawn year and it’s hundreds of thousands. Right? So you think to yourself, wow, we met with remember that incredible woman she’s, a pharmacist who set up a she said open ngo to help deal with street children who were abandoned children who were abandoned the street. The babies are a bandit in the street and she said, you know i said, well, how many? How many of these tourists that come know that you exist? You can afford to fly all the way to america’s ah, fifty, dollar contribution is a nothing, right it’s a dinner and yet no one could find her and she couldn’t find them. This is the kind. Of thing that will allow her would connect in with other ngos doing similar kind ofwork and conceivably with tourists with hotels with other people who are of, you know, who would love to give her money and love to support her work and would never know that she existed. Okay, but tony there’s one there’s one important thing about this is that what andrew’s talking about? What dot ngo is doing is more than we’re just going to sell you a domain? Yeah. Now clearly wardle it’s a community where is the other ones that are doing like dot dogs there died n y c or a lot of these other let’s not let’s not know where i’m from it’s not put down and i see in the same category dot dogs it shouldn’t even be in the same sentence. You’re from new york. Yes, i’m yes. I’m wishing out there right now or dot bicycle or whatever the point is with most of these you by name you get a name it’s like dot com that’s it and you’re on your own right? This is not what this is deeper than that exactly how the gold? The goal. Is to create a real community and her career, a real international community with a lot of input. I mean, this is not a it’s p i r is helping to do the back and announcing the i r is right. The public interest registered the people who are doing the people who are running dot, dot launching dot ngo is the public interest registers people who do dahna arkwright, okay, they their goal, you know, there’s a there’s, a great sensitivity and it’s a valid sensitivity in the ngo communities and says who died and left you in charge? Right? And they’re very humble, and one of the things that we like about this approach is they’re very humble about it. They recognised that this has got to be a community organizer, you know, it’s got it’s, got it’s, got to be computer he organized pr can help the dot ngo people can help with the back end, but in the end, there’s going to be it’s about and for the ngo community itself, okay, with ngo governance and is part of it, you know. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. All right, all right. So, what way? Need some takeaways? We still have a good amount of time. We play time’s. Not that we’re not wrapping up yet. But what are some takeaways now for non-profits that have ninety nine percent of their there? Dot org’s people were talking to we’re listening. What? What should they? How did they take advantage of doubt, ngo, what do they what do they do? But first go to my office on monday. What do i do? Tow. Explore this more and see if i can. It makes sense for me. The first thing is to put an expression of interest and why. And what you do is you guys are laden with your acronyms. Oh, my god! Any? Oh, i an expression of inter prison of interest on. And what that does that puts you down puts you down is having expressed interest. There are a number of people who, for obvious reasons, have have names that might overlap, especially if you go by your acronyms. So, it’s, good to get your name down as early as possible. It gets you on the list. It gets you gets you information. About what? When? Things are going to roll out because it’s still, you know, with anything technical, where do you go? Where do you do where you do the eoe who’d buy something? Jodie cubine goto the one that i remember is g o t l d dot org’s. But there are others, and i’ll get you that in from okay, raymond. All right. So ngo tl d dahna latto or but if you could even also go to the p i r dot ord website as well, p i r dot org’s also. Right. So you know what i’m doing, listeners to be ableto take some actionable steps. Well, it hasn’t your well it hasn’t launched. It is a matter of getting getting on a waiting list. Effective bourelly theo, i stage its first hasn’t launched, right? Yo, i but so what do you know? So but the ideas it’s first come first served if you want to name that some other non-profit also wants to use the same name. So that kind of religion is that we don’t makes a lot of sense to get your eoe eoe eye your expression of interest in, you know, even if you may not have end up doing it that’s what right? But claim absolute claims in their advantage and claiming a space, of course. And then you get the choice later to actually use it or or let it let it let someone else that’s, right? It’s, not it’s, not a guarantee that you’ll get it, but and remember that space is only open to real ngos, right? So? So if a company cames in, if abc company wanted to come in, they wouldn’t qualify, so they won’t. They you know, they wouldn’t get a dot nt right, or an individual or on anything, even if i was doing that, even if you were an artist and even if you’re doing work for the public good, but still, you’re still not gonna qualify for dot ngos, correct. Okay, help zsystems sorry, what andrew’s getting out it’s, a vetting system. This is a real improvement over the previous system. Okay, we’re improving. No what’s, the what’s, the what’s. The next step then after the expression of interest what’s gonna happen. So where we are, we in the hole i can process just generally is is that is that as as these new names have been approved right then they have to get they have to go through their technical checkups and this kind of stuff. And then eventually that what they put into the root right then they become available. And so what? What will happen is over the course of the rest of the year, all of this stuff will be rolled out. There are new ones being rolled out every every few weeks. If i remember correctly that’s, right, and the one the ones for for dot ngo are going to be available late in the year. It looks like and when they’re available, everybody who’s on the list will get advance warning of everything that’s happening. Your people to follow it on on our on the websites and things like that. And then when and then and then when it when it when it, when it happens, when it comes live for sale and seven says it’s ah it’s a first come, first serve kind of thing there are, as you can imagine, a number of ngos that have the same name in different places around the world, of course. So if that’s one of the reasons why we’re encouraging people, especially people who are, you know, bigger networks that want to get in early, get torrio in now, as time goes on, there will be doing a whole host of launch events around this to try to sensitize people around the world and an important thing about this is it’s not just to do it for your own side, but share it with your network. This is a one of the great things about the dot ngo the community is that it will have a real network effect. The mohr ngos around the world that get into this community, the more people will be able to know, the more it’ll be easy for foundations and donors and individuals to say, i’m going to go there. I’m going to look for good, good people. I’m going to contribute. You may have heard of the of the work that people like eva are doing when you have a small micro lenders, you know, an individual can go on, give twenty five dollars to a to attu an entrepreneur in uganda imagine that on a huge scale for ngos around the world. And you got the idea that what what i’ve done, ngok very important to recognize that this is much deeper than just a top level domain, absolutely community it really worldwide commune and hopefully a real game changing technology for the ngo sector. Yeah, there’s going to be hundreds of these? I mean, a lot of them are just going to go to you and say, well, if you couldn’t get what you wanted and dot com come to us, this is something much bigger than that, okay, what else we got? Well, that was it sounds like a great wrap up, but i still want to spend a couple more minutes can tell you a bit about what we’d been doing around the world because i think it’s it’s pretty interesting stuff, okay, keep it, keep it relevant to our to our audio. Absolutely, absolutely it’s it’s just to give you a sense of what this is like, we’ve been actually talking with with ngo audiences around the world i think we’ve done them in, i don’t know maybe twenty different countries, at least, you know, morocco, senegal, cameroon, all over south america, india, singapore, delicate different places what’s so exciting about it is is that the feed back to the community has been that this is this is this is a really this is really good gig that they rupture, that they’re having a hard time, you know, they’re having a hard time getting the visibility and coming together because there’s not a common space. And so one of the things that we’ve we’ve made a big effort to do is to try to design all of the criteria for joining what it means to be an ngo real big challenge. What does it mean to be an ad to find across the world and be fair to everyone you got it? And so what we’ve made a big effort to do is to get impact input from the different communities around the world to say, well, you know, you know, you you know, the west african community better than us give us advice on what would constitute an ngo and so that’s been a great learning. Experience and and we’re continuing to we built this really great network of advisors and people who can give us input on, you know, does this work and and i’m guessing that this will be an ongoing process where, you know, as time goes on, well, will continue to refine and make this more and more and more appropriate to the local conditions as well as just a broad, broad international conditions i’m feeling i’m feeling very glad that non-profit radio is part of helping spread the word we’ll get, we’ll get nine thousand organizations. Well, tony it’s going to be very, very important, teo know about this kind of thing because you’re going to have this rollout of all these top level domains within the work i’m doing within at large, and i can’t there’s a really trust issue here that some of the domains, they’re just going to be a free for all, and anyone could be in there and there’s, no vetting their religions and so it’s important to know that there’s going to be some of them that are in this that are sort of a kind of above from the rest, okay? Glenn yeah, i like tio and to that is that i suggest connecting with i can the main staff, the vp, chris mondini would be a perfect person to be a host guest issue. Okay, we’ll talk about it. We’ll talk about that after. Can people get information at n g o t l d dot org’s their information they can and there’s a booth. The dot ngo. People have a booth right as you walk into this room. Well, but what are nine thousand aren’t here? So you get you a lot and i think there’s another one global tl d no global ngo dot dot or guy think also is it global ngo dot or believe that that’s, right? But d o t l d definitely okay, of course, that stands for non governmental organization. Top level domain you got learned all about. All right, glenn mcknight. I’m sorry. Yeah. Koegler mcknight, secretariat, secretariat of naralo you spoke the least, but i want to thank you very much for bringing this up, but i’m glad i’m glad i met you yesterday. And then you brought in andrew mac. Principle of am g global. Ok, am amglobal amglobal consulting is makes sense. And, of course, he’s also hoping with the launch of the dot ngo new top level domain on glen, also brought in evan leibovich, global vice chair of the at large advisory of what am i messing up, vice chair, global vice chair of the large advisory committee of of i can, which we all now understand is the internet corporation of assigned names and numbers i want thank you very much for revealing this this part of the back end of our magnificent internet and then also explaining the new top level domains. Gentlemen, thank you so, so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure, really joy. I don’t want a lot. I’ve never i’ve never heard this done in thirty minutes before. Okay, well, either we didn’t recover it superficially or we did a good job and kept a concise tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen. Thanks so much for being with us next week. The halloween show. It won’t suck. I promise that if you missed any part of today’s show finding on tony martignetti dot com, it also did not suck. Where in the world else would you go pursuant? Lots of tools for small and midsize shops. You’ll raise more money, let’s. Just leave it at that this week. Pursuant dot com, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. Susan chavez. Dot com on our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. 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