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Nonprofit Radio for July 3, 2020: Thought Leadership & Content Strategy

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My Guests:

Peter Panepento & Antionette Kerr: Thought Leadership
Peter Panapento and Antionette Kerr co-authored the book, “Modern Media Relations for Nonprofits.” They share their insights on how to build relationships with journalists so you get heard as the thought leader you are. Plus other media strategies, like crisis communications. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)






Valerie Johnson & Katie Green: Content Strategy
Now that you’re an established thought leader, you need to produce multichannel content that’s relevant, engaging, actionable, user friendly and SEO friendly. Our 20NTC coverage continues as Valerie Johnson from Pathways to Housing PA and Katie Green with The Trevor Project show you how.





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[00:02:40.94] spk_0:
welcome to tony-martignetti non proper radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with epidermal Asus below PSA if you gave me the blistering news that you missed Today’s show Thought leadership. Peter Pan, A Pento and Antoinette Car co authored the book Modern Media Relations for Non Profits. They share their insights on how to build relationships with journalists. So you get heard as the Thought Leader you are, plus other media strategies like crisis Communications. This is part of our 20 NTC coverage. Also content strategy. Now that you’re an established thought leader, you need to produce multi channel content that’s relevant. Also engaging actionable, user friendly and S e o friendly. Our 20 NTC coverage continues as Valerie Johnson from Pathways to Housing P A and Katie Green with the Trevor Project show you how on Tony’s Take two Dismantling racism were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and, by turn to communications PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is a thought leadership. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020 non profit technology conference. We were supposed to be in Baltimore. The conference was canceled, but non profit radio is persevering, virtually getting lots and lots of the very smart speakers. We’re, ah, gonna be part of the conference. We’re sponsored at NTC by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in for a free 60 day trial with me now our Peter Pan a Pento and Antoinette car. Peter is philanthropic practice leader at Turn two Communications Internet is part of leadership team of women, Advance and CEO of Bold and bright Media. They are the co authors of the book Modern Media Relations for non Profits. Peter, Internet. Welcome.

[00:02:59.99] spk_1:
Great to be here. Virtually.

[00:03:11.74] spk_0:
Yes. I’m glad we could work this out among the three of us. Thank you. And, uh, it’s good to know that you reach well and safe in your respective locations. Okay.

[00:03:12.63] spk_1:
Thank you. Social distancing and full effect. Yes.

[00:03:42.02] spk_0:
Okay. Yes, I see no one within six feet of you. That’s good. Even though you are home. Um, we’re talking about thought leadership and media. Um let’s ah, let’s start with you. Internet. Um weaken weaken usar leverages to thought leadership and sort of ah, used the media to ah, to influence our ah influence are those who are engaged with us, our constituents, and even influence policy.

[00:04:27.40] spk_2:
So the media needs Experts and nonprofits are on the ground there doing the work. And they are the perfect votes to be experts in this conversation in particular and emergency Peter non talks about earlier about crisis communications in a lot of situations, the media scrambling looking for experts if you have establish yourself as a thought leader, which is what you should aspire to do, I know that turn to does the work and helping people to kind of establish themselves the thought leader in this conversation. But right now we need people with good information and who can provide great stories, for example. And nonprofits can do that and they can do that work. And that’s why that that leadership conversations important most non profit don’t see themselves needing to do that. It’s not the first thing we think about. We think about fundraising, right? Um, but not necessarily Media friend raising. And so now the time that you want to have those relationships and be considered as a leader,

[00:05:10.94] spk_0:
because when there’s news that relates to your mission, um, your call is more likely to be taken. Your email is more likely be answered if there’s that preexisting relationship you mentioned. But if if everybody in the sector is calling a LH the over media blindly, then it’s just sort of, ah, crapshoot whether they answer you or not.

[00:06:44.14] spk_2:
Or if you think about the media needing like, you know, going Teoh crisis example like the media needing a source or an expert and they don’t want to quote the same person, that’s, you know something that I’ve learned from my media background and training. I’ve been working as a journalist since 1995 and you know one thing that my editors say, you know, don’t quote the same person, don’t quote the same organization. So in a crisis people will call Big Box. It’s not profit sometimes, um, and they’ll just see them as being the experts for a conversation. And that’s why establishing yourself as a thought leader is so important. So someone can say, You know, I’m a unique voice about this. We have an example in our book Modern Media Relations, where someone who on organization that worked with Children and families involved in domestic violence, became very important in the conversation when a professional athlete in Georgia was convicted of family violence and all of a sudden that person was called upon to be on radio shows and talk shows and they became a thought leader. But they say done the work to position themselves is an expert. And so I know. Peter, you I know you have some examples as well, but we just got a dived in there and didn’t talk about the whole broad concept of about leadership. Well,

[00:06:44.59] spk_0:
all right. What? Um, Peter, I was gonna ask you how do we start to build these relationships? Um, you want toe? I don’t want to back up. What thought leadership is

[00:08:29.44] spk_1:
sure I’ll start with thought. Leadership defined. And that and that’s really the process of establishing ones expertise. And it’s been a specific area and and doing it in a way where they are recognized beyond their own organization in their own kind of immediate networks. As our as an expert, as a thought leader, somebody who is driving the conversation and really, really helping people better understand Ah, key issue or a topic eso for a non profit or a foundation. A thought leader might be your CEO, Um, who are executive directors, somebody who is at the front lines on dhe kind of is in a in a position where they, um not only have expertise, but they have some authority and being able to talk with some gravitas about a topic. Um, but in order to kind of establish your credentials there on get recognized, you have to do some legwork beyond just having that expertise you have to be. You have to be comfortable talking about that topic you have. Teoh. You have to spend some time kind of building the relationships and the and the and the the larger credibility that you are, somebody who has something interesting to say and the expertise to back it up. Um, and the more you do that and you can do that, not just through the media but through your own channels and through speaking at conferences and all kinds of other things. Um, the more you do that, the more you kind of become, ah, somebody who is recognized and is called upon to weigh in on important topics, or or when news events call for it or in a situation like what? Where we are now with with the Cove in 19 response. Somebody who can kind of come in and bring ah, voice of reason and perspective. Toe What’s going on around us?

[00:09:36.34] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As Changes to Paycheck Protection Program Loan Forgiveness There have been many wegner had and up to date free wedding. Are you missed it? Fret not. Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource is and recorded events. Now back to thought Leadership with Peter Pan, a Pento and Antoinette car, you have to lay the groundwork. There has to be some fundamentals, and you have to have your gravitas, and you need to appear bonified and be bonified, not just appear. You have to be bona fide on the topic that you’re that you’re an expert in the mission of your your non profit. How do you. Then start to when you have that groundwork. How do you then start to build relationships when there isn’t really a need for you to be talking about the subject?

[00:10:39.09] spk_1:
Sure. Um, there are a lot of ways to do that. One, is that you? You start to build some personal relationships with media who are covering these topics, and you can do that either Through You know, somebody on your communications team that helps you or you can kind of do it yourself. But you can. You can start to show up in in their coverage of stories by, um, by positioning yourself and building relationships with individual reporters, maybe even when they don’t need you by having an informational coffee or call so that they can get to know you and know what you stand for. You could do it by your through your own writing and public speaking and making those things available and accessible to the media. Um, and you can you can do it through your own channels to a lot of nonprofits have logs. They have. They have their own podcast. They have different ways where they’re positioning their internal experts externally. So that they were kind of talking about in establishing their credentials around around a subject. And

[00:10:51.39] spk_0:
that’s your That’s your owned media, right? You’re your own media reverses earned media.

[00:10:56.80] spk_1:
Yes, yes. And the value of that is that the more you’re you’re kind of demonstrating through your own to media channels, your expertise. You’re not only building some greater relationships and credibility with your donors and the folks who are already kind of in your network, but you start to show up when people are doing searches, or when people are on social media and seeing stories and articles that air getting passed around. If they may see something you’ve written or talked about, shared in another network, and it sparks a light for them that you’re somebody worth going back to when they need, um, when they need some, you know somebody like you to weigh in on something

[00:12:00.68] spk_0:
good. Peter, I know you and Internet are both former journalists. Uh, I’m gonna jump over the Internet for what? Internet What? What do these outreach, I guess calls and emails to journalists to try to build the relationship. Uh, what do they what they looked like? What would you suggest people are saying to to try to get the attention, um, to build the relationship, Not not when I’m looking to be quoted because there’s a breaking news, but to build the

[00:13:43.62] spk_2:
relationship before him. So full disclosure. I’m a current journalist. Um, so current? Yes, eso I still work for publications right now, okay. And so people contact me on Twitter and social media, which is a new thing. We talk about press releases. I’m a big fan of press releases. Yes, just full disclosure about that. But I still like for people to pitch me on social media direct messages through Twitter. If I’m using my company profile, it’s safe for Don profits to contact me and say, Hey, I have a story. I noticed that you’re interested in this concept. It’s always great when people know what I’m interested in. Like when they’re like I noticed that you publish a lot of stories. Like, right now I’m working on a story, a series of stories about missing and murdered indigenous women. And so when people see Owen notice you’re publishing stories about this and they pitch me on a direct message or um, through Facebook, message or even and say, Hey, would you consider this story? And here’s the angle, um, or have you thought about you know, I’ve had other people reach out and say, I noticed your publishing these types of stories about, you know, missing and murdered indigenous women. Have you considered other stories about violence against women? And it’s always a really great connection for me. So I think just kind of knowing what the journalist is interested in is really important kind of understanding their angle. Are you, um, understanding their angle and just flowing from there and saying, you know, here’s how we fit into this conversation is always a

[00:13:53.83] spk_0:
wonder. And so, um, so outreach by any of the social channels is is fine to you. Talk about Twitter and direct message Facebook. Those are all

[00:14:06.95] spk_2:
yes. And people tagging me like I feel like if a journalist is using their profile in a way that is professional, then you’re safe to contact them and okay, bam And that

[00:14:21.24] spk_0:
Okay? Yeah, yeah, Peter, Anything you want to add to? Yeah,

[00:15:39.87] spk_1:
I think that I think Japan that is done on about making sure, though, that when you do that you are, You are you’re you’re not coming with something that’s off the reporters beat or off of what’s up? What you know is what they cover or the type of story they cover within. That be, um you could spend a lot of effort reaching out to every journalist you see on Twitter about your specific cause. But if they don’t cover your cause, it doesn’t relate to what they what they dio. Then they’re probably they’re going to ignore you or or start to block you because you’re you’re kind of almost spamming them. So, um, it’s it’s important to be targeted with who you reach out to as well, and make sure that you understand that journalists and their work before you before you do your outreach and come at them with a pitch that they don’t necessarily want. So, yes, I think it’s really important to to do a bit of that homework upfront, um, and respect that journalist time. And if you do that and if you come at them with something that is actually on on their beat and is of interest to them, um, then I think you have a much greater chance of getting their attention and getting them to want to follow up with you and help further the relationship. Beyond that initial pitch

[00:16:58.35] spk_2:
talking can, I would share a pet peeve like to pet peeves, actually. And, um, if I write about a non profit and they don’t share the story on their own social, it’s just it’s heartbreaking for me. A lot of times I have to fight for these stories to appear and after fight with an editor to say, This is why this is newsworthy. This needs to be here. And then the non profit really doesn’t share the story. And I think, Well, you know, I don’t write for my own, you know, just deport not to be shared. Um, And then the other thing is, I love when nonprofits support stories that aren’t related to their particular story. So I’ll start noticing, like one thing, um, Kentucky non profit network, for example. Before they ever shared or were involved in anything that I was involved in, they started sharing things or liking things that I would publish as a reporter, and I didn’t know anything about them, but I thought that was interesting. So that when they pitched something. Then you’re more likely to notice it. Because as a reporter, you’re more likely to notice because you feel like they’re really genuinely interested in a conversation, even if it doesn’t apply to them. You’re so interested.

[00:17:01.63] spk_0:
Internet. Where are you writing now?

[00:17:19.41] spk_2:
I am writing working on a piece for guardian. I am from the Guardian am writing for women Advance which we have our own network. And then I write for Halifax Media Group Publications. So I’m on the regional circuit doing all the fun things.

[00:17:25.84] spk_0:
Okay? Halifax is Nova Scotia.

[00:17:39.14] spk_2:
No, Halifax is, ah, media group in the United States. Okay, Okay. They own a series of their own regional newspapers across the country. So, um, let’s talk a little

[00:17:47.28] spk_0:
about crisis management. You wonder, can you get us started with, uh, how you might, um, approach crisis communications? Internet?

[00:18:13.03] spk_2:
I thought that was Peter’s question. No, I’m just getting a crisis communications, I think, actually, Peter is a really great person to talk about this. My crisis communications conversation really has shifted with what we’re going through. So I don’t want to make it so unique to our current situation. So I let Peter start and then Peter, I could back you up on it.

[00:20:06.39] spk_1:
I’m happy. Eso crisis communications. It’s really important to not wait until the actual you’re actually in a crisis to put your plan together. It’s really important to have a protocol that you’ve set up when you’re not in the middle of a crisis of possible to really kind of put together some protocols for not only what you’re going to say, but who’s going to say it and how you’re going to communicate during that situation. So what does that protocol look like? One. Is that you up front? You designate who you are spokesperson or spokespeople are going to be ahead of time. Um, and you spend some time ahead of that coaching them up in terms of what some of the key messages for your organization are, regardless of what the crisis might be. Some things that you would broadly want to try to reinforce and kind of a mood and ah, tone that you’re gonna want to take with what you’re talking about. Um, do that 1st 2nd is that you would really want to have a system in place for how you activate that for how you activate your crisis plan and your crisis communications. So that essentially means that you want to, um, you want Teoh. Make sure that, you know, kind of who? Who needs to sign off on what you’re going to talk about, who you’re gonna be involving in your decisions on whether you need to put out a statement who, ah, how you’re going to communicate in what different channels, the more you can make those decisions ahead of time and have your structure in place, the better equipped. You aren’t actually respond during a crisis situation and be able to get up quick and accurate. And, ah, positive message out in in a situation and often crises or not, they’re crises because they’re not expected. But you could be planning ahead so that you you are able to react quickly and a full authoritatively during that situation.

[00:20:34.02] spk_0:
You’re calm pounding the crisis if you’re not prepared. Absolutely. I’m scrambling to figure out who’s in charge, who has to approve messages. Where should messages go? All which are peripheral to the to the substance of the problem?

[00:21:38.12] spk_1:
Absolutely. And in today’s world, where crises can really mushroom, not only in the media, but on social media. The longer year allowing time to pass before you’re getting out there with with your statement and bonds to it the worst, uh, the worse the situation gets for you. So you really need to position yourselves to be able to respond quickly to respond clearly and to respond accurately. Um, and it’s important to know that you know that planning ahead of time is really critical. But what you say in this situation is also critical to you Do want to make sure that you communicate truthfully. That doesn’t necessarily mean that um uh, you, uh you, um, reveal everything. Reveal everything exactly. But they do. That you do reveal is accurate. It’s not going back to bite you later. Sleep. People

[00:21:45.19] spk_0:
talk about complicating the complicating the crisis. If you’re lying or misleading, it comes back. I mean, people investigate things get found out. You

[00:21:49.55] spk_1:
absolutely. And I was

[00:21:51.94] spk_0:
rhythmically expanded. Your problem?

[00:23:09.21] spk_1:
Absolutely. And you’d be surprised how, How many times when I was a journalist that people, if they had just come clean and kind of got the truth out there right away, they may have taken a short term hit, but their lives would have cut on fine after that. But the more you try to often office Kate or or lie about the situation or or try to spin it in a way where you’re you’re kind of hiding the truth, that the worst your situation is going to get eso Bubi in a position to be as transparent and clear and accurate as possible. Um, with that first statement, uh, knowing that in some cases you might have to say, You know, we don’t know, But we’ll follow up when we do know, because sometimes ah, crisis situation is one in which, speaking of one we’re in now, we don’t know all of the all of the different twists and turns. The cove in 19 situation is going to take So but but rather than trying to speculate, or or or in some cases as we’ve seen, some some public figures do try Teoh, spend this one way or another rather than just saying, Here’s the situation. Here are concerns. Here’s what we know. Here’s what we don’t know. It compounds the situation and in some cases that it could be dangerous to people.

[00:23:15.16] spk_0:
Internet. You wanna do you want to back up a little bit?

[00:23:52.09] spk_2:
I did it so that I think the statement, um I love how people are putting forward Thes Cove in 19 states, and I think we need to have more statements like that. I mean, these statements are demanding and people feel like that, but I’m like we could do more of that. We could have statements as non profit on issues on public issues, public concerns, things that are emerging, an urgent for people I think about in the eastern part of North Carolina. Because, tony, I know you’re in Home State.

[00:23:53.44] spk_0:
I’m in eastern North Carolina,

[00:24:47.98] spk_2:
happy to have you here. And when we have hurricanes, when we have issues like that, if non profits would put out statements like they have with come in 19 if they felt like they needed to say, Here’s where we are, here’s what we do here here’s Here’s what we have to offer before during after and just update them. You know, I feel like this crisis has brought forward a level of communication and help people to see the necessary level of communication that we need the hat, but we don’t have that. All the time is non profits, and people are looking for that. So I feel like in the eastern part of North Carolina, where we had, um, you know, 100 year hurricanes within three months of each other that didn’t think what happened. You know, it is people what people made covet statements like that. I mean, what if people And so I’m just gonna start comin covitz statements, Peter, that I don’t have a better to report. But what if we felt like we needed to make these types of statements when there’s an emergency and interesting.

[00:25:05.24] spk_0:
Thank you. Um, Internet. I’m gonna ask you to wrap up with something that you said, which is contrary to a lot of what I hear. Uh, you said that you’re a big fan of press releases.

[00:25:15.48] spk_2:
I am.

[00:25:16.25] spk_0:
Could you take us out with your rationale for why you’re a big fan of them? I’ve heard that they’re pretty much obsolete

[00:25:23.54] spk_2:
from a journalist

[00:25:29.81] spk_0:
from a country. No right guest of that. I

[00:25:31.14] spk_2:
believe that. I believe that s Oh, yes, because I’ve been reading press releases for a long time and I feel like the who, What, when, Where and how gets me past that part of it. Then I can ask you all the interesting questions. So if you can give me that in a way that I can cut and paste and I will not. But you’re someone’s name like this Bill tony.

[00:25:54.71] spk_0:
More than more at risk

[00:26:15.51] spk_2:
it might be. It might be a challenge so I could weaken. Get all of that out of the way. But a good press release gets me excited. As a journalist. It brings me into the conversation, and if you aren’t excited about your press release, I can probably tell on the other end. So I had a good press release.

[00:26:17.24] spk_0:
All right, thank you. We’ll leave it there. That’s Ah, contrary advice, which which I love hearing. All right, that’s Ah, that’s Antoinette Car, part of the leadership team of Women Advance and CEO of Bold and Bright Media. And also Peter Pan, a Pento philanthropic practice leader at Turn two Communications. And they are co authors of the book Modern Media Relations for Non Profits Internet. Peter, thank you very much for sharing. Thanks so much. Thanks for

[00:26:41.86] spk_1:
having us, tony.

[00:28:23.84] spk_0:
Pleasure stay safe and thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC responsive by Cougar Mountain Software at 20 NTC. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software. Their accounting product Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now time for Tony’s Take Two. You’re dismantling racism journey. That’s our newest special episode. You will have a long journey, so start with this single step. This show will be out the week of July 6th. My guest is pretty itchy Shah. She’s president and CEO of Flourish Talent Management Solutions. She shares her wisdom and solid advice on working through the journey, starting with your people, your culture and your leadership. That is tony Steak, too. Now it’s time for content strategy with Valerie Johnson and Katie Green. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC. That’s the 2020 non profit Technology conference. We’re sponsored a 20 ntc by Cougar mouth and software. My guests now are Katie Green and Valerie Johnson. Katie is digital giving manager for the Trevor Project. And Valerie Johnson is director of institutional Advancement at Pathways to Housing, P A, K T. And Valerie. Welcome.

[00:28:32.74] spk_3:
I deliver having us.

[00:28:59.74] spk_0:
It’s a pleasure. Good to good to talk to both of you. And glad to know that you’re each safe and well, um, in in Brooklyn and Ah, suburban Philadelphia. Glad you’re with us. Um, you’re NTC. Ah. What shop was content? Strategy for donor engagement. From tactics to testing. Um, let’s start with you. Ah, Katie. What? What did you feel was the need for the session Where non profits not getting doing so well, it could be doing a lot better.

[00:29:42.74] spk_3:
Yeah. So we have a session this morning at same time as the originally a plan, which is great. You were able to give it virtually. And I think what a lot of donor content strategy is missing is simply structure. I think a lot of people don’t know where to start, and they’re intimidated by it. And we, Valerie and I provided some real life examples on how you can achieve a donor content strategy that does get you closer to your revenue bulls. However, the tone of the presentation changed a little bit, given how the world has come to be our new reality. So we did talk a little bit about the crisis and what it means for fundraising and what it means for content strategy under a tight timeline, knowing that things are changing at a really rapid pace. So really just structure and story telling or the things that we talked about in this morning presentation, which will be available or, uh, viewing later, we’re gonna have a recording available for those who weren’t able to make it. But yeah, that’s what we focus on.

[00:30:29.30] spk_0:
Okay, um, remind me at the end. If I forget, let me know where that recording let us know where that recording is gonna be. Um, were you part of the plug in? That was That was that was today. Is that what that where you did your session or are plugged in now it was made with something else. Where did you do?

[00:30:32.82] spk_3:
Yeah, I don’t Gallery actually knows more about that. Um

[00:30:36.16] spk_0:
where did you did you do this session, Valerie

[00:30:40.14] spk_3:
Valerie was so kind to plan it all for us, so I don’t wanna speak over

[00:30:48.60] spk_4:
Valerie. Sorry. Looking it up. I wanted to make sure I was getting the correct name of the organization that helped us to put this together. Um, So Nyah at Bowery analytics contacted us. Um, and she actually contacted a large number of people who were planning to stick at N 10 because in 10 wasn’t able to do a virtual conference. The what she and Bowery analytics pulled together a bunch of us to help get the zoom set up and get the weapon are set up and get everything scheduled and get some registration links together. Um, all of the webinars for free. And a lot of us had already developed a content, So why not?

[00:31:28.22] spk_0:
Yeah, And for non profit radio as well. I’m glad we could do it here, too. So you want to tell us now where, where condone listeners find the full session? Do you know

[00:31:44.56] spk_4:
the full sessions are going to be available through Bowery analytics? It’s B o w e r y analytics dot com, and we’ll make sure we get a link to our specific such number.

[00:31:58.54] spk_0:
Okay, Okay. Thank you. Um, let’s start with, uh, part of the good strategy is using personas user personas. Can you kick us off with that? Valerie? How do you How do you start to identify what persona looks like? And what’s their value?

[00:32:53.84] spk_4:
Absolutely. So persona is really like a profile or a character sketch of someone that you need to connect with, um, and understanding their motivations and goals. So it’s a way of segmenting your audience. And rather than sending all of your messaging out into the ether trying to tailor that messaging to a specific demographic or a specific group of people, So for pathways to housing p a were actually still developing. What are person does look like? We have an idea of what it looks like, but we want to dig support into the research and analytics side of things to see who exactly is supporting us right now. And what, um, ties they have in common to help us build those profiles. I think Katie might be a little bit further ahead of us in developing this personas. I’m gonna toss it over to her. Yeah.

[00:32:55.44] spk_3:
Yeah. So, uh, user personas are something I’ve been doing throughout my career. I worked in an agency before I came to the Trevor Project, so I was able to get a lot of industry knowledge on how we create user personas and user journeys. But what we did when we started looking at our end of your campaign for last year Trevor Project, we made sure we carved out some time Teoh conduct a little bit of an audit of what our donors were looking like. Where were they coming from, what could be tracked, what could be tracked? We found out we had a lot more questions that needed answers. So in order to get user personas, something that’s really important is tracking and understanding where people are coming from and where their first and Lex last clicks are. So because of our ability to do so. Google Analytics and Source code Tracking Protocol. We did get a lot of tracking during end of year that will improve. What are user pursuant is like going into future campaigns, but now we’re gonna be able to better tell what is actually inspiring. People give what is the moment where they’re actually clicking that donate button. What is the first thing they’re seeing that’s starting a relationship with the trouble project. So

[00:34:06.99] spk_2:
what are

[00:34:13.06] spk_0:
the pieces of a persona? How granular do you get is where they live, to what they read or what? Yeah, give us, um, a depth of this thing.

[00:36:05.73] spk_3:
Absolutely so the main important piece of a persona is to know what their needs are so you can have a persona that says, General, as this is a donor, they need to know how to give. That’s a persona, but what you’d like to do is get a little bit deeper in being able to tell what the values of that persona are. What’s what’s the name? What’s the age? What’s The character is sticks. What are the opportunities, Really. You know, I like to create fake names and really go into a new stock in Madrid so that you can try to connect with who this person might be. You’re really giving ah face to a name and a value to a person, and you want to look at what donors are looking like. So, for example, for the Trevor Project, we have a lot of one time first time donors, and we have a lot of people who come in. They give their first gift, and I’m trying to find where they’re dropping off, right? What is causing that? So I baby create a persona that is, Ah, one time user that’s not really convinced they want to give again one time donor. They may be young. They may be, um, like within our demographic, which is under 25 youth that we serve with our Christ. The service is in suicide prevention. Service is, um so you can get as granular is making a name and an aged in the demographic and the location and what devices they’re using. I think that’s a big one. Is this person usually on their mobile? Are they usually on test top? What channels do they typically like to look at Twitter? You can get as granular email. Are they just looking at your website? So you know it should get a detailed as you can, but I would encourage people to get really creative with it. If the more detailed you’re able to get, it’s just a just a more clear picture of a donor that you’re looking to target just make sure it’s someone you actually want to target and not someone you’re gonna be. Uh, that wouldn’t actually be coming to you like maybe Bill Gates isn’t gonna be coming. Teoh. A non profit website to donate. But you can look at what those specific I don’t as I would like that are more realist. Extra Your

[00:36:27.10] spk_0:
okay, right? You’re basically non. What’s realistic? Not what you aspiration is.

[00:36:36.82] spk_3:
Yeah, two degree. I mean, I think you could be aspirational, aspirational in some facets of what you’re doing. It has to be somewhat grounded in, you know, a realistic approach. We do get asked. I get aspirational myself when I’m creating donor personas. When you know I am looking for major gifts. I am looking for people who are willing to process a $15,000 credit card charge. And there are people out there that that do that. So when I do my donor personas, they may not be the number one target of my campaign. But I do want to consider what those people are interested in, as well so that I can personalized content for them to the best of my ability.

[00:37:10.53] spk_0:

[00:37:24.13] spk_4:
Yeah, the other thing to keep in mind is diversifying your donor base. So in looking at who’s giving two pathways to housing right now, they’re mostly middle aged, college educated white women who prefer Facebook and giving on a desktop. Um, which is fine. And that’s definitely one category of people that you would want to be supporting you. But Philadelphia is an incredibly diverse city. So if those are the only people that we’re getting to with our messaging, that we really need to think about diversifying our strategies to build new donor profiles for people who don’t all look the same.

[00:38:14.55] spk_0:
And then once you have a bunch of personas and profile that I mean it sounds like you could have 10 or 12 really different ones different. Um, yeah, different characteristics of people, different types of people that come to you. And like you, said Kate, even people who leave no, you want to capture them back. So once you have these Valerie, then you’re trying to communicate to them. But how do you How do you turn your communications into targets to these personas?

[00:38:27.62] spk_4:
So you really want to think about building content specifically for that persona, so you might be doing a campaign that you want to hit a couple of different personas with. But you’re gonna taylor that campaign specifically to each persona and deliver the message Teoh a specific segment of that campaign. So if you’re gonna do a mail campaign, um, you want to think about how you’re putting together that letter and what you’re writing into the letter and how you’re addressing the donors for each of the different segments of each of the different personas that you put together to really help craft a message and inspire them specifically to donate?

[00:38:59.82] spk_0:
Okay, right. Like it. You, like you were saying, you know, yet know what’s important to them. Um, but

[00:39:00.80] spk_1:
that stuff is this is

[00:39:03.82] spk_0:
very, uh, amorphous to try to, you know, it’s not just what they give and how much do they give And what time of year do they give? You know what’s important to them? What do they value this

[00:39:13.75] spk_4:
is This is

[00:39:14.29] spk_0:
difficult stuff to suss out.

[00:39:29.53] spk_4:
Yeah. One thing our co presenters that this morning, Marcus, was that donors were smart and they’re savvy. And with the advent of the Internet and all of the various channels that you can communicate with people now. But what they want and they know what they want to hear from you. And if they’re not hearing from you what they want, they’re gonna go find someone else who’s gonna provide that information and communicate to them the way they want to be communicated with. So fundraising and marketing for non profits right now looks very different than it did maybe 10 15 20 years ago. Um, and And donors know what they want now.

[00:40:01.31] spk_0:
Okay, so it’s worth you’re trying. Teoh suss out all this amorphous information. A ZX best you can. Okay, Katie, Is there anything more you want to say about personas before we move on to being multi channel?

[00:40:07.52] spk_3:
Let’s go on a multi channel. I could talk. Is the personas all day?

[00:40:11.59] spk_0:
All right? All right. Anything. I don’t want anything important out, though, from

[00:40:16.15] spk_3:
OK, I think we’ve covered the main points.

[00:40:18.25] spk_0:
Okay, what’s what’s what’s important about? Well, I think we all know why to be multi channel, But how to coordinate those messages? What’s your What’s your thinking there?

[00:41:37.71] spk_3:
Yeah, I can jump in here. So I think what people often don’t Dio is they don’t coordinate messages Cross channel at the right time. That’s what I’ve been seeing a lot with, just my industry research. I mean, I’m always looking at what everybody is doing in the space because I want to be part of the best. Uh, but they say they being What I’ve heard on multiple conferences is that there’s a rule of seven, right? So as a non donor, let’s am school after Facebook, I need to see and ask seven times before I’m actually likely to give. So if you’re seeing that asked seven times on Facebook, that means it’s seven posts. That’s kind of a lot, and that’s gonna have to be spaced out through a certain amount of days, weeks, months. Even so, if you’re just increasing all the channels that you’re presenting that message on, so let’s say I’m seeing it on Facebook I’m seeing in my email. I’m seeing it on my instagram. I’m getting a paid ad for it because I liked it on Facebook. That’s gonna shorten the window of which I see seven points of that call to action. So I’m gonna be more likely to give if I’m seeing it in a wider spectrum on the digital space. Then I am in just one channel. So making sure that you’re saying similar things but that our custom to what the channel is providing, like social media has, like paid ads, have a certain amount of characters you can use. So bacon shorts optimized for what channel you’re using but still with the common thread, is really important for increasing your numbers. Right.

[00:42:31.14] spk_0:
Okay, Now it’s a little clear to me why I see so many ads for the, uh, pickpocket proof slacks. I see them across all kinds of different channels. I’m not I’m hardly on Facebook anymore. But, um, I I see them when I goto websites and I’m reading articles and because one time I don’t know why, I swear it was like, three years ago I was browsing through these CIA a approved slacks with 14 pockets, and it’s all supposed to be a pickpocket. Proof for something is, you know, the $200 slacks or whatever they’re you know. But I get

[00:42:39.22] spk_3:
your seven times

[00:43:26.30] spk_0:
I has ever since. Yeah, and, uh, I know I’m not even sure that if I bought them the ads would stop. Maybe the West is sophisticated enough. No, it’s not right. That is now your brother needs pair. Whatever time for our last break turn to communications relationships, the world runs on them. We all know that turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard. So people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo, we’ve got but loads more time for content strategy from 20 and TC. Valerie, anything you want, you want to explain about multi channel and how important it is to reinforce and be consistent.

[00:44:25.22] spk_4:
I think the biggest thing for me is if you’re starting from scratch and you’re really trying to develop content and put it in the right places, um, you really want to be thinking about who? Your audiences, all those channels. So for lengthen the messaging that you’re putting out is gonna look a lot different than what you’re putting out on Facebook. Most people use Facebook recreational E, and they use lengthen for professional relationships So the type of information that someone is seeking on Linkin or more likely to respond to go on Lincoln is a lot different than what they’re more likely to look for or respond to on Facebook. So for us, we make sure all of our job listings go up on LinkedIn. And all of our that’s specific for me was humbled Lincoln just to kind of show our expertise in the area. But one were posted to Facebook. We’re talking more likely to people that we know are supporters of us and want to do tangible things to support us. So the messaging is different, even though the information is really the same.

[00:45:00.29] spk_0:
Okay, Okay. Again, you’re consistent, but consistent, but different. Maybe different format even. Um OK, yeah. Um I mean, there’s there’s other format, you know, content paper. Were white papers, Um, again, depending for the right for the right channel research. Um, do

[00:45:01.51] spk_2:
either of

[00:45:12.58] spk_0:
you use, um, media working in working through thought leadership in developing thought leadership in media media relationships A

[00:45:14.19] spk_4:
little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So there is a local media outlet here in Philadelphia called Generosity, and they are focused on nonprofits and social enterprises and people who are making positive impact in Philadelphia. So they’re super open to having folks guest post or write op EDS for them. So we’ve utilized that outlet a couple of times. Um, actually, just last week, uhm our CEO wrote an article about the opportunity for kindness in the era of Corona virus. So it’s something that she actually wrote to communicate to our staff members and let them know what our stance on, you know, moving forward was going to be. And we thought it was think that would be beneficial. Not just our staff, but the at large. So we pass it along to they posted it as an op ed and that gave us, um, a little bit more bang for our buck for that we had already written.

[00:46:07.22] spk_0:
Yeah. Good, good. Um, Katie, you’re doing much with earned media.

[00:46:11.38] spk_3:
I am not. The Trevor Project is. But Katie Green is not that our constant handle that.

[00:46:20.12] spk_0:
OK, um, let’s talk about some some analytics. How do we know whether we’re being successful on where we need to? We need to tweak or pivot. Can you get us started?

[00:46:42.48] spk_3:
Absolutely. So analytics is very hard for a lot of nonprofits because it’s such a scientific based, skilled touch. And, you know, that’s something that when I first came onto the Trevor Project, is the first thing I implemented was our source coding protocol. It’s so important to know where people are coming from, but you can actually optimize, but we a be tested and continue to be test absolutely everything. We do it through. Ah, our website radio through email, We do it through our paid social and to see how things work. I think really we just test absolutely everything. Things you think you know you don’t. And that’s what I keep learning through. Testing is what you think works today, work tomorrow and we retest everything. A time of day test, for example, isn’t gonna throw send for email isn’t gonna be the same after daylight savings. It’s not gonna be the same as the seasons change, and particularly not the same now that everybody is stuck at home. So you know, they’re testing and optimizing Really, what you know is working. It just requires retesting, re optimizing and testing.

[00:47:43.41] spk_0:
Could you could you give some more examples Besides time of day. What examples of things you test.

[00:49:01.17] spk_3:
Oh, absolutely. So on our website we tested, we have a little call out box with questions on our donate form. We tested the placement of that. Is it better to have it right up next to the form underneath, directly on tops of dispersing people see to be tested. Placement there. We test what photos we use. A lot does a photo of somebody looking sad versus somebody looking more celebratory and happy. We test a lot of pride imagery because the serv LGBT Q youth We want to see if pride imagery actually helps get our word out there. We test our colors a lot because our brand colors orange, which is can be very cautionary. But we see you think that it’s your brand color. Of course, everybody’s gonna always just on toe, But that’s not really the case like sometimes they like our blues and R purples and greens when it comes to see ta buttons. Um, gosh, I mean, I could tell you every test I’ve ever run thunder test, some using graphics versus photos on the website. You know, the size with the height of our life boxes with mark donation forms. The amount of buttons we have it just the list goes on and on. I

[00:49:21.77] spk_0:
heard one that just made me think of one small example of what? Riffing off What you just said was testing the text inside a button. Yeah, instead of just donate or ah, reviewed or something, you know, beam or more splits explicit about what? The what? The action is you asking for just a single word. A little more descriptive.

[00:49:56.13] spk_3:
Yeah, Testing. See, Ta Izz is something that we dio a lot just to get people some ideas. I think one that can be really helpful when it comes to fundraising is seeing how your donors reacts to the word give and the word support and the word donate. So all the same thing we’re after you to support our mission to give to us and to donate. But those three words have very different feelings when you’re reading them on your screen. So that’s one of the biggest test we ran. But I would recommend always test taking see ta when you have a new one, especially

[00:50:05.61] spk_0:
Was it was it act blue that, uh, change dot or GE, I think maybe change that or GE started calling it chip in, could you? Chimp man,

[00:50:12.99] spk_3:
I think that that flail sounds like a classic act Blue.

[00:50:18.26] spk_0:
Yeah. Okay. Um eso Valerie, can you talk us through some metrics? You’re the director of institutional advancement. What? What numbers do you look for? Decide how you’re doing.

[00:51:11.98] spk_4:
Ah, we look at a lot of things. So we’re looking at the click through rates on our emails and honor Post, actually reading to the bottom and clicking the links that we’re providing. Um, we’re looking at how many people are interacting with things that were posting on social media and whether they are, um, injuring it. We’re not. Hey, son, how many people are interacting with it? Um, we took a lot of surveys to do. So talking to our donors directly and asking them what kind of things they won’t see. What kind of thanks. Um I know Katie’s doing ah lot more with metrics than we are. So this is my friendly reminder to smaller nonprofits where there’s just one person trying to do all of this. You don’t have to recreate the feel eso you could look at an organization like the Trevor Project that does have the staff who can look at all of these things. And you, all of these tests chicken, all of the match person, See, But for the past at a imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So you can look at what they’re doing and then borrow It s o for an organization like me that has a fuller staff were doing a little bit on our own. But we’re also looking a lot of what other nonprofits were doing and a scooping that they’re taking the time to test things. And we’re kind of, you know, copying what they’re doing, obviously successful for them.

[00:51:44.45] spk_0:
How do you learn from them? Do you just created build a relationship and then asked, What? What kind of metrics do you look at?

[00:51:51.46] spk_4:
Sometimes And sometimes it’s a simple as going to the Trevor Project websites donate page and seeing where they placed things and what they named their buttons and what giving levels they’re putting up there. Um, because, you know, you’re never gonna be exactly the same as another organization. So you definitely want to take a look at your use thing as an example and use someone who’s doing similar work or in a similar location to you. But at the end of the day, there’s only so much you can learn through testing. And after that you’re just gonna have to dive in and do something. So if you don’t have time for the testing, you could do a quick search of what everybody in your industry is doing and kind of take it from there and said,

[00:52:33.45] spk_0:
Katie, since everybody’s stealing from the Trevor Project, What, uh, what? I assume you knew Valerie was doing this.

[00:52:36.65] spk_3:
I didn’t. But it’s such a compliment

[00:52:39.48] spk_4:
is because you do a great job. That’s why we’re looking at you.

[00:52:43.95] spk_3:
Oh, gosh,

[00:52:44.69] spk_0:
What do you want to add about? Metrics?

[00:52:48.65] spk_3:
Um, I think I just want toe reiterate Valerie’s point that there are so many nonprofits where one person is doing us. Um, I’m the only person on the digital giving team. I’m the first person they were hired to do. Digital living. Um, I’ve been still with the team member of one, but, you know, I do have the support of a very large marketing team that helps me with creating all of the tests that we dio and anyone can tweet me, email me whatever it like any non profit everyone to connect. I Moyes unopened resource. But, uh, metrics are increasingly, uh, important. Just critical role to donors. Content strategy. So

[00:53:29.99] spk_0:
is your offering yourself as a resource. Do you want to share your e mail and or your Twitter? You don’t have to give your email if you don’t want to.

[00:53:37.22] spk_3:
Yeah, maybe Twitter is probably the best way to reach me because I’m trying. I’m trying to learn how to tweet more as a digital person. I feel like radio its act. Katie Sue Green like one word. So it’s k a t i e after you e g r e n Katie Stuart Green green. Just like the color. No, ESPN.

[00:54:05.19] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um, that’s a Valerie. You want to, uh, gonna wrap us up some parting thoughts about content strategy?

[00:54:07.13] spk_4:
Sure. Um, since I am kind of representing the smaller organization here, I just want to remind everybody that you’re doing everything that you can, and it’s everything that you’re doing is important. So don’t try to do everything at once, really. Pick one thing to focus on and get to a point where you’re doing that well and comfortably before you try to add more. Um, listen, podcast like this or going to a presentation like the one that we did this morning is overwhelming in the number of things that you could be. Do you think? And it makes you feel like you’re not doing enough? But you are. And just tackling the small hills one at a time is much, much easier than trying to climb the mountain.

[00:56:13.47] spk_0:
That’s very gracious. Gracious advice. Thank you. Thanks very much. That was Valerie Johnson. That is Valerie Johnson, director of Institutional Advancement at Pathways to Housing P A. And with her is Katie Green. Digital giving manager for Trevor Project. Thank you very much for sharing each of you Thanks so much. And thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC pulling it together. Virtually responsive by Cougar Mouth and Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain will get you a free 60 day trial. Thanks a lot for being with us next week. Accessibility and inclusive design If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant er mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff, Sam Liebowitz Managed Stream shows. Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this

[00:56:22.08] spk_8:
Music is by Scots with me next week for non

[00:56:29.63] spk_0:
profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow a foe set if i saw that you missed today’s show you’re supercharged board dolph goldberg reveals his wisdom for keeping engagement civil, revitalizing your board committees and making your board meetings effective. He’s, the author of the book successful non-profits build supercharged boards and you’re content calendar what belongs in it? Who do you need to help create it? How do you get the buy-in and how about resources to help you? Our can do content calendar committee from the non-profit technology conference is laura norvig from e t r james porter at the end fund-raising founder of non-profit marketing guide between those on tony’s take two solitude. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com. I’m glad that dolph goldenburg is with me. He is managing director at the goldenburg group. Before consulting, he was executive director of an aids service organisation. In atlanta and an lgbt community center in philadelphia, he has more than a decade of fund-raising experience dafs company is at goldenburg group dot com dolph welcome. Thank you, tony it’s. Good to be on. And i have to give you a very you know, it’s, i’m not tryingto humble myself and, uh, you know, be in your in your pocket right away. But i have to apologize because, uh, when i first introduced the segment, i called you dolph goldberg, but that is not correct. Your name is dolph goldenburg. No worries at all of the common short shorthand for the name. Well, okay, well, but inappropriate shorthand. You you have it’s, like calling me martignetti. You know, there is that there is that syllable in the middle. So it’s, dolph goldenburg all right. And you were just recently married. Just last month. I wa sai wass after about ten years together, my husband and i decided to make it legal. So we had a very small wedding with just friends and family outstanding. And that was up in new england, right? That actually was indeed deep, deep south georgia. We’re going ok. Thie twin city metropolis twin. City of helena mcrae, georgia. Okay. I don’t know where i got northeast, but new england. But you are exactly opposite. A small town, georgia. Wonderful. Congratulations. Thank you. And congratulations on this book. Um, why, uh why do we need a book on supercharging boards? That’s. A great question. I have been an executive director for about a dozen years. And? And what i found is an executive director. Was that both my my work as a needy, but also the organization’s mission was was always either supported or made more difficulty because of the board. And what i found was that the time that i would invest in board development and the board would invest in its own development always paid strong reward. You have an interesting personal journey. Is tio how you came to write the book? I do. Actually, i i had been at a housing aid service organization gosh, for about almost five years or so and and realized that i was starting to have a midlife crisis. And so, unlike most people have a midlife crisis, i didn’t have an affair. I didn’t get a corvette. What i did do was i gave ten. Months notice that my job as an executive director and i planned an eight month long sabbatical and my my plan really on that sabbatical. Wass to think about what? What i had done well in my career what i had done poorly in my career and then really kind of put all of that down in terms of my lessons learned around board development and so through that door during that sabbatical, i sort of travel the world. I went to vietnam and cambodia for two months. I hiked around in peru for a month. I hide out west for a month. But between each of those trips, i would come back home. And i would work on this book, which, while it is very short, took, you know, about five or six months to write, and it has tend different zoho areas of topics of improvement for boards were only going to have to time to touch on three, maybe four depending how we go. But, you know, so the message is, you know, you gotta buy the book for the foot for the full ten. I love that message. Thank you. Thank you. All right, and and you’re you’re being very gracious there. I messed up your name. I got your wedding location wrong. We’re starting. I i can’t imagine interview it’s starting worse. But you’re being very kind and gracious, so we’ll get to it. It can only get much better now. Hopefully, i have more the facts, correct. You know, i feel like the interview’s going well, thank you. I do two. Absolutely. All right. Let’s get started. Rules of engagement. You want you want to seymour? Civility on boards? Yeah, and, you know, and and not just not just civility, stability is really important. But board have to sit down and say, what rules are we going to live? These are not the governing rules. These air, not the expectations that every boardmember should have, but they’re really you know, how are we going to interact with each other? What behavior is okay? And his not okay. And civility is a big part of that, you know? But you know, as some other examples we have all seen the boardmember who was the naysayers? Whatever comes up, they try to shoot it down and that’s not on ly unproductive for the board, but it’s also really unproductive for that individual boardmember because what ends up happening is if every time they open their mouth, people sort of roll their eyes. And they just tuned the naysayers. Yeah, this is the person loses credibility. But right now, how are we going to deal with this? Ah, this gadflies, this nay sayer. Well, so i believe that the first thing we do is we help the board developed its own rules of engagement. And so as an example, what would come out of that is, you know, being the naysayers is not okay. And once the board has generally come to alignment on that note, i did not say concensus, but actually come to alignment because, you know, if ninety percent of the board feels that way that’s probably what it should be. So, you know, so once the board has come to an alignment on, for example, may saying is not okay or, you know, or what happens in the meeting stays in the meeting, those types of things. Then when people move beyond that and kind of step outside of the rules of engagement, then the board chair or the governor’s chair can have a conversation with that person and really start to bring them back into alignment on the rules of engagement. Okay. And, of course, the naysayers air going toe may say that rule so on your your your point about alignment? Not not one hundred percent consensus, right? Right. We want to be prepared for the naysayers today. Say that they saying rule right? Yeah, i love the way you said. Okay, well, i spit it out fast. All right? I’ll tell you what, let’s, take our guy lily for a break. And dolph, of course, you and i are going to keep talking about the supercharged board, revitalizing committees and making meetings effective. So stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent adult let’s let’s hit a few more of these rules of engagement. Ah, i don’t want you don’t want this to sound like a battlefield plan or something, but but ah, in fact, your first one is the is the civility rule. So this the board meeting’s should not be a battlefield. All right, working through committees, we’re going. We’re going to talk a little about revitalising there shortly, but you gotta work through the structure, right? Right. So so one of the rules of engagement the board’s often come up with is if someone has a great idea the place to bring that is to the appropriate committee, not to the full board. And then you really let the committee deliberate on that idea developer recommending agent if it’s appropriate and bring that the full board because really, the full board just doesn’t have time to deal with all the good ideas that are percolating up. Is that it? Absolutely. The the work of a bored is done in its committees and one of the one of the things that i always kind of saying, this is sort of the committee math, if you will, is that if you have got five committees that meat between every board meeting for just ninety minutes, what that means is that committee dill deliberation is seven hours boardmember can’t be seven hours long, but when you have five committees each meeting for ninety minutes, you get more deliberation and you get better recommendations and decisions coming to the board. There also is an expectation that boardmember sze will prepare for committee and full board meetings. Absolutely, you know, nothing is more demoralizing both to senior staff and bored leadership, then for board members to show up having already received the meeting packet, but not having read the reports on these financials because then, really, what happens is the committee reports are just reading what they’ve already written what’s mohr has part of that expectation not also means there’s an expectation on the staff, and that expectation is that meeting packets go out with enough lead time that board members can actually review them. I swear i’ve been to board meetings where there are members opening their their packets for the first time, and, you know, they’re there cramming ten minutes. Before the board meeting is about to be called to order, right? And you know what those boardmember often don’t realize is that it is painfully obvious in the meeting who read the meeting minutes and the meeting packet and who did not read the meeting packet it is it comes out, you’re you’re gonna be you’re gonna be you’re gonna be exposed, you might not be called out, but it’s going to be obvious, right? All right. Um, confidentiality right way got to keep the organization’s promise is close to us, right? And it’s, not just confidentiality within, like, in terms of inside the organization’s. Obviously, what is said in the board meeting does not go outside of the organization, but it all does not go to other staff. So, you know, so any staff member not present in the board meeting should also not be privy to the deliberation of the board and one more that you have rules of engagement dahna whether you have authority to represent the organization, talk about that one, right? So, you know, so oftentimes they’re our board members, i shouldn’t think oftentimes sometimes there are board members who feel that they have the authority to speak on behalf of the organisation every now and then. In fact, when i started one, jobs and executive director someone to actually find a contract on behalf of the organization, they were not a boardmember they did not have the authority to do so, and we had to find a way to back out of that contract, you know? So they also do not have the authority to individually sign a contract unless the board has voted and given them that authority. Now all these rules should be adopted by the board, right? That’s what you were saying earlier, but right, right, but and i also think that the board should sit down and see and have a discussion and see if there’s other rules of engagement that are appropriate for them as a board and again to meet these air different from expectations, you know, you know, expectations are, you know, attendance personal giving expectations are a little bit higher level than rules of engagement, right? And that’s, another part of your book expectations, i just i feel like a lot of guests have covered those, but i’ve never seen you know, we haven’t talked. About rules of engagement and and some of these that you’re talking about, like the like the civility and the the the naysaying, the naysayers way have covered those before. So i like like, this whole this also area the book, and if i could say the civility is really a very positive way of saying no bomb throwers kind of like naysayers, we’ve all seen bomb throwers and board meetings and it’s it’s not effective for the board, you have any, uh, any and any bad stories you want to tell. Oh gosh, you know, i’ve only been permanent executive director of your organization, so i don’t want to get anybody in trouble by telling that story, but by telling a story, but but i will share with you that that i have seen one board where, at every single meeting, you know, this person was completely and totally negative, not just being in a sayer, but completely and totally negative about everything and, you know, was literally throwing, you know, little mini bombs into the meeting to kind of set up disagreements between other board members and then we just sit back and watch them fight for goodness. And obviously that someone who we had to move off the board, i should say, right, right, totally negative influence. Yeah. Okay. Um, let’s go teo to our committee structure, revitalizing committees. Why don’t you want to open this when our pal you want to start with with this kind of work, you know, one of the things that i said before that, you know, really ineffective board, a supercharged board does the vast majority of its work through committees, committees will always have a larger bandwidth and a deeper bench of expertise to deliberate on strategic issues that are facing an organization is part of that one of the things that i recommend is that every committee have an annual plan, so, you know, so they know what they’re responsible for that year. Ideally, they’ll have to read a four goals for the year, but then they also say, ok, if we’re gonna have, you know, six meetings every other month, meeting one we want to cover x meeting to we want to cover something else meeting three, so so that way they’re always moving the ball forward on these projects, but they’re they’re also making sure that what? They do is in alignment with the strategic plan and the organizational goals. You said it earlier. The work of the board is done through the committees. Right. Okay, so we need our committees to be effective and revitalized. As you say in the book, let’s, talk through some of the essential committees. Just in case people are not familiar with the work of the executive committee is so, you know, so often times. And let me say that some organizations have justin executive committee. Some organizations have just a governance committee, and some have both and there’s. And depending what the structure is, sometimes there’s some overlap between those two committees. But, you know, typically what the executive committee does, is it it sets the agenda for board meetings. It it liberates or makes decisions on behalf of the board between meetings when absolutely necessary, that should not happen on a regular basis. And then if there’s not a governance committee. Oftentimes the executive committee is also responsible for enforcing expectations, you know, ensuring the committee’s air meeting on a timely manner, ensuring that conflicts of interest are disclosed and deliberated and voted on by the full board. But if there is a governance committee that typically goes to the governing committee now, just like the committee’s air setting ah plan for the year is the executive committee setting up a board plan for the year? Absolutely, you know, ideally in its first month of the year, the new executive committee wants to sit down and think about what the strategic plans goals are for the year, determine which committees can help drive those goals forward and then and then work with those committees. They developed their annual plan as well. Now off. And i think also a part of that, and this is going to bleed over a little bit latto making meetings effective. The executive committee also needs to figure out what the organization’s calendar is, including the board calendar, and make sure that that is in the plan as well. The all the committee chairs sit on the executive committee, right? And it depends for some organizations. Every committee chair sits on the executive committee and other organizations. That’s, just the officers and, you know, again, to a great extent, it probably depends whether there’s a separate governance committee or not. Okay. Okay, so it’s so. Meaning, if you have a separate governance committee, then what? You, you don’t need all the committee chairs on the board, on the executive committee. So, you know, so, so if you’ve got a separate governance committee, then you might actually want all of the committee chairs on your executive committee, because because then what they’re doing, they’re setting the agenda, and and they’re doing sort of, like, very high level board work. But if there’s, not a governance committee and the executive committee, is also responsible for enforcing expectations, ensuring disclosure of conflicts of interest, you know, those those legal obligations that every board needs to be taken care of? You probably want a smaller group of people working on that, okay, so strike three for me, it’s a good thing. I’m the host of this show because i misread that one, too, okay, sorry here, all right. Yeah. It’s a good thing. I’m in charge of the show. All right, let’s. See what else? Another committee finance. And i was finance. Is this the same as the investment committee on a lot of boards krauz investment? Yeah. So? So a lot of aa lot of boards called the finance committee, the finance and investment committee. Some board called the finance an audit committee, but, you know, but typically, especially in the smaller organizations, the finance committee ends up being responsible for the audit, for investments and everything that falls underneath it. Okay. And, of course, a lot more detail in the book. You gotta you just gotta get the book. I’m going to say successful non-profits build supercharged boards. Now the committees that we have they are they’re all supposed to be meeting in advance of full board meetings, right? You i think you recommend a couple of weeks before, right? Right. So in the in the ideal world between every board meeting, all of the committee’s need as well, because every committee is in some way responsible for goals in the strategic plan and it’s helping to drive that forward. So if the committee’s air not doing their work between board meetings, the board meetings are just honestly, no, do not do not move the organization forward is not all right, let’s talk about the fund-raising or development committee what’s your advice there. So, you know, in terms of the fundraising committee, i think it is absolutely critical that and again, this is often for small and medium sized organizations that either have did either have limited or or no fund-raising staff, it is absolutely critical that they start their year looking at actual fund-raising strategies from the prior year determining what was effective, what isn’t, or going, what, as a committee and an organization they want to do again in the coming year and, you know, and i also think it’s it is essential that the fundraising committee have a voice and what the board give get is going to be they don’t ultimately have the decision, but they should have a voice in that on that that goes over to one of the expectations of board board e-giving right, okay, right now, each of these committees needs to have a staff liaison. This is this is going to get a little staff intensive, i am i? I am all about every committee should have a staff liaison. And and really, the role of that staff person is not to run the committee, but it is to help keep the committee on track. And so, as an example of the staff liaison, would help the chair buy-in putting together an agenda and sometimes that’s a friendly reminder sometimes it’s being pleasantly persistent, which is a nice way to say kind of nag, but, you know, but to make sure that the chair puts together an agenda and that it goes out to arrange all logistics for the meeting, so is a room reserved. You know, if you normally have iced tea at your meetings is they’re iced tea there to make sure that the agenda is sent to all of the committee members before the meeting, along with any other information that they’re supposed to review. And then finally, in the ideal world, your staff liaison also takes minutes at the meeting and then send those to the chair of the committee to review and approved before they get sent out. What about the executive committee? Is the ceo or executive director? They have a staff liaison to the executive committee. So in really small, non-profits, you know, so organizations that might only have two or three staff members, yeah, than absolute. The executive director end up serving as the staff liaison in a medium sized organization where the where the ceo or executive director has an executive assistant themselves. They might task the executive assistant with that. Okay. All right, that’s, the that’s, the well we should. We should talk on touch on that that there might be a program committees also that based on your you all your programmatic work, right? And the tough thing with program committees, especially when when the organization has staff, is to ensure that the program committees are operating at a strategic level and not an operational level, and to make sure that the committee really understands what their role is in that respect. And so on example, that i that i often give is, you know, whether whether program operates from seven thirty to three, thirty or eight to four is probably a staff decision. You know where as whether or not a program measures its outcomes is a strategic decision. Okay, right. We don’t want our board meddling in the day to day operations hiring, hiring and supplies and mundane things like that that are taking away from the boards much higher and much more strategic purpose. Right? Okay. All right. Let’s. Look att effective meetings now you talked about the agenda is the importance of agendas. Anything more you want to say about about how important those are? Oh. Absolutely so to me, the real point of putting together an agenda is not just to tell everyone that’s going to be in the meeting, what will happen at the meeting, but it also forces the act of putting together an agenda forces the person leading the meeting to really think through what their goals are for that meeting and to make sure that what happened in the meeting supports those gold. I like your suggestion of putting time limits on each agenda item. I do that when i for the few meetings that i that i conduct usually i’m sitting in them, but i’m not leading them, but when i do, i like to put the time limits so everybody sees it in black and white, and i don’t know how you feel about this. I appoint a timekeeper so it’s it’s somebody different than me? I’m paying attention to the substance of the meeting and the flow, but not the exact timing. Absolutely. I always believe there should be a timekeeper in the ideal world, someone different from the person running the meeting, but the other thing on time and this is something that i’m really adamant about. Especially when there’s a call an option or if or if it’s an entire, you know, teleconference meeting is the meeting has to start on time, so, you know, so even if you don’t have a core on well, you go ahead and you get started when we when we delay the start of a meeting, what we’re really doing this, we’re punishing the people that showed up on time, and we’re rewarding the people who did not show up my welcome. What can we do without what could we do without a quorum, though? Well, so so there’s some things you could do, like, obviously you can’t take votes, but you can start to have some of those strategic discussions. So, you know, so anything that is a report out or just a strategic discussion you can still do without a quorum. You can’t take any votes without a quorum, but you can, you know, but you can have those discussions, okay? And, um, i also think that from from day one, your first meeting, you tell people it’s going to start on time and then you actually do start on time and the late comers they’re going to get the message from meetings too and forward, right, and and also share with you, especially again when there’s a call an option or if the meeting is entirely by phone. You know, i am all about the meeting starts on time, but also late comers. You hear the ding. But we don’t stop the meeting to reintroduce you, to tell you who is present, to tell you what we have already done because otherwise will interrupt the meeting three or four times. So the way i tended when i run those meetings, the way i tend to ask people calling into phone conferences late is to wait until they have something to say in a conversation, and then they introduce themselves. And so for example, they would say, this is dalton, and i want to add, and then they would essentially say they’re comment. Okay, okay, we just have a minute before we have to before we have to wrap it up and let’s leave people with the the importance of minutes in our minute. I’m starting the importance of the minutes, the committee, and it went on the board minutes, you know, so the minutes are the official record of what the committee has done, as well as what the board is done. And, you know, in the ideal world, someone from the outside should be able to read those minutes and have a good sense of the official action of the organization, as well as its goals and issues that it is working on resolving outstanding. We’re gonna leave it there. Dolph the book, thank you, my pleasure. The book is successful. Non-profits build supercharged boards, get the book there’s so much more in it than we could cover here on non-profit radio, i thank you very much. Thank you, your content calendar coming up. First, pursuant, you know who these people are? They have developed tools that help small and midsize non-profits raise the money raised the money that you need to raise falik prospector and velocity. You know, i talk about thes time after time because they’re helpful, and they’re perfect for our audience, even the velocity tool, which was developed for their internal consultants pursuing consultants, running campaigns for their clients. Well, you could get the tool without the without the consultant and that when his velocity and prospector, one that helps you manage time against goal full dashboard keeping you on task day after day, week after week toward that campaign goal, check out these tools at pursuant dot com and we be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising this is not the spelling bee you grew up with, probably because they bring in stand up comedy, there’s, dance, there’s, booze, there’s, live music. And somewhere in there, the squeezing a spelling bee and fund-raising and not just fund-raising that night, but fund-raising in advance. So it’s ah, i love this because it’s just unusual fund-raising model i haven’t seen spelling bees for fund-raising i got knocked out of a spelling. Bee once on the word lettuce, can you believe it? Let us because spelling bees i don’t know if they’re this formal, but the ones i was in you couldn’t make a mistake and i went, i said, l u e t you see, but it’s too late. I had made the mistake. You’re out out on the word lettuce killed me and the winner of that spelling bee one on aeronautics hyre like i could’ve had the whole thing, but i choked on lettuce. Ever since then i’ve only eating kale. All right, check him out. We be spelling dot com and b is b e now, time for tony’s. Take two solitude. This is important for you because you work in a giving profession. You’re even if you’re back office, you know that your office is giving. Your organization is giving its saving lives. It’s, it’s changing the world. This is this is draining, exhausting work. And you have to take time for yourself. So i strongly suggest. And i hope you did this summer. Or you will as the summer comes to a close. Get time alone. Unconnected. No phones, no text, no e mail disconnected. No. Instagram no snapchat get away and i urge you ah, a little a little jovially in my video this week, it is way beyond typical weekly videos. This one even has a cast and crew. So we need to check out my solitude video. No, a solitude with a cast at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two leinheiser love. They will do it a little concisely this time live love going out to everybody. Who’s listening. Now, at this moment you know who you are. You know where you are. The live love goes out. It goes out every single week. Whether alive or pre recorded, the live love goes out. What follows that it’s the podcast pleasantries. I am so grateful for all the tens of that tens. Ten thousand over ten thousand not quite tens of thousands, but the over ten thousand listeners listening in that time shift whatever device, whatever time, whatever activity you are engaged in pleasantries to you and likewise affections to our am and fm affiliate listeners throughout the country, from upstate new york and outside philadelphia in lancaster county to washington and oregon and california and points in between. Affections to our affiliate listeners on the am and fm stations here’s, a panel from ntcdinosaur, and we talked about your content calendar. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference were in san jose, california, at the convention center, and this is also part of ntc conversations, my guests, now our laura norvig, james porter and heavy larue miller going to meet them very shortly. First, i have to shout out the inten thie ntc swag item for this interview is popcorn from microsoft, microsoft popcorn, and i have it from our production assistant, anna hannah who’s. Excellent, that this is very good popcorn. Great. We’re gonna add this to the swag pile carefully. Of course, they don’t want it disseminated across the pile and making everything oily, but i will take a couple pieces for myself. Microsoft popcorn okay. See, the closest to me is laura norvig she is a digital media strategist at tr james porter is associate director for external relations at the end. Fund-raising clolery miller is a founder, the founder of non-profit marketing guide, which is that non-profit marketing guy dot com laura james e-giving welcome, thank you. Thank you telling e-giving welcome back. Absolutely good, thank you. Content calendars and you creating communications harmony. That is your seminar topic. Uh, let’s start the star in the middle. James, what do you think? Non-profits they’re not getting quite right could do better about content calendars or maybe even just having one? I don’t know, right? Yeah, well, it starts off with just having one, but i think a lot of the the problems stem from first of all, not knowing what you want or what you need. There are a lot of tools out there and so is something that i wanted to get across. Was that you, khun? Try things and if they don’t work that’s okay, but i think one of the biggest problems is just not not realizing what you need and what what you want. And if you need something from or long term planning. You need something for data. The project management. Do you need a tool? That’s going to be everything? Or do you just need to fill in gaps with some of your existing tools? There’s a whole host of other problems. But i think step one is just really trying to figure out what you want and what your organization needs are. Okay, laura, anything you want to add at this overviewing point? Well, i know sometimes people struggle with as james said, trying to make your calendar maybe do too much and you wantto keep it simple. One of the other things people experience is getting people to actually use the calendar, so keeping it simple can help. Okay. Okay, kivi, anything for us to get us started kick us off. I think people know they need to plan, but then they don’t have time to plan, and so they run around and don’t feel strategic field too busy feel like they’re too many priorities. But then they don’t give themself a chance to stop and think. And the editorial calendar really is a way to stop and think and be more strategic. Okay, on the editorial calendar is the same, but it’s our can’t content calendar, right? Something okay, um all right, so let’s, let’s, uh, let’s get started with what should be in one? I don’t know e-giving you want to kick us off? What some ideas? What? Sharing your content calendar. So in order for it to be an editor of calendar there three pieces one is the communications channels you’re sending out your content in the second piece is the timing behind that when things are going out and the third piece is the messaging what you’re actually talking about so it’s, what you’re talking about when you’re talking about it and in which communication channels, you have to have those three things or in my mind, it’s, not an editorial calendar. Okay, james, you’re doing a lot of nodding. Yeah, i would also add to that that it’s important to also have who is responsible and who is the driver for these things and for for our content calendar anyway, because if you have a lot of people using it, you need to know who to go to jazz questions about that item who’s going to be in charge of posting. It so i think it’s also important to have that, and then i i also would add that making sure somewhere maybe it’s, not in your exact tool, but we’d like to put it in our tool is to also include your audience so that, you know, for each item in your editorial calendar who the audience is going to be, that that’s the right who the messages that particular messages for yeah, but to be very specific about it. And so we you could even do it, split it out by channels so that if you have different audiences on different channels, but the for me that it’s very important to be specific about the audience. Okay, okay, laura, anything you’d like to add about what belongs in our calendar. I think those are pretty much the basics. And then, uh, we sometimes layer on top the pushing out to social and so you could use your calendar as a tool to track so again the channels. But yeah, tracking them twitter and facebook, as well as a block poster newsletter. Okay, okay, very good. What? Yeah. So? So where were you? We’re developing a calendar. That’s got that gun, each message or each campaign? I mean, does it have has our campaigns that also has messages within the campaign? Is it? Is it that granular? I think that’s going to depend on your organization. You know, whether that’s the way you messages through a long campaign and that’s, one of the things we talked about was the long term planning. You can stretch the campaign out over time, but not that’s not gonna fit all or yeah. Okay. Yeah. And i would just add that for us, it does include every message. So for example, we had campaigner on giving tuesday. That was a video campaign, and we had a different video being pushed out every day. And so each one of those messages was individually posted on the editorial calendar. Along with what channel they were being pushed out through every day. For how long? How long before giving tuesday did you start this? There were five. There were five videos, and then the whole campaign we started when you got a tease, it let people know things were coming, so yeah, it was about about a week in total for the campaign. Okay. All right. Anything else you want to say about what belongs? What that covers it. Okay. I like the idea of making sure somebody’s responsible for each each item, right? You gotta know who to talk to without responsibility. This calendar is not goingto not going to get accomplished. Yeah, we actually go to the level of kind of the process planning. So not only who’s maybe writing a block post. Who’s got snusz edited who’s going to copy, edit it. Who’s goingto posted who? You know. So, dan, are you? There were a lot of non-profits that only had one person in their communications department. However, so in that kind of situation, you know, you don’t need to write your name on every single box, right? Well, that could be a message for the ceo. That’s i like that. Look at all this. My name is next on all this and expect me to achieve this. All right? Uh, who was involved in adopting this this calendar? Because we need to have make make sure that the organization is going to accept it. It’s going to buy-in, but they need to be a part of the process. I would think that makes it a lot easier to have them accepted, so give you let’s start with you had around, we start to get this thing well, at what stage we bring others in, right? So i think it is going very from organization to organization and then session. We did talk a lot about getting buy-in from program staff because they’re often the source of the content that’s where the really good stories come from and getting there buy-in as content creators really seeing themselves as communicators is really important, but then it’s also important to get the executive team involved because they’re the ones that really need to set the strategy for the messaging and lots of times there’s a lot of conflicting priorities, too many priorities, too much going on, really a lot of mixed messaging and in those situations it’s really up to the management team to provide some direction. But you know, those air, those air, often times for communications, director’s relationships that have to be built over time. And so i always urge a communications department to just do it, do it themselves. Do it to manage their own workload. And then hopefully over time, you’re really making it a much more organization wide tool. Okay, how does it work within your organizations? Get getting the organizational buy-in yeah, yeah, i would just say that i think you khun get people’s opinions, but it really matters the most of the people who are going to be using it the most on the day to day, those people have to be the most comfortable with it and really be the most okay with it. So, yeah, it is important to get by and from other people, but it it could also be a problem when you have an existing tool that is there already. And you have a new staff coming in and the new staff say, ok, this tool doesn’t actually work for me. So it was something that i mentioned in the session that i thought was important. Wass that to do periodic check ins. And maybe every six months, you kind of a gut check and ask the staff are using the tool. Is this tool still working for us? Do we need to add anything to it? Do we need? To consider changing it because just because you’re using it doesn’t mean it’s working. So i think it is also important to have kind of periodic check ins to make sure that it’s doing what you needed to do, okay, get laura has that work in europe? Well, that yeah, that’s one of the things we talked about in the session was was not being afraid to change your tool if it’s just not working in sometimes that’s a little hard to dio, as i was saying, we work in an orgy where sharepoint is kind of designated bi i ity but it really wasn’t working for us, so i did have a small enough content team that we just kind of went rogue, and and we’re using our own solution with trey lo and yeah, yeah, any other online resource is that you want to share for creation of your of your editorial calendar, a valuable patrol? Oh, fan myself. I’ve also used a base camp before they base camp base camp base camp has been useful and something i mentioned the session to was that i thought it was useful to for me anyway. Tohave in one place. Both a project management software and a content countering which trailer could do as well? It’s a certain degrees, you know, but and it starts getting messy when you have lots of systems and lots of tools, so the more you can integrate things or just have one tool that could do most things. There’s, no one to look and do all but that’s. Why i like to i like to base camp for having the project management and also a more robust calendar. I’ve seen a lot of organizations use google calendars very successfully because you can layer them what you can do with sharepoint too. But it but there could be so you could have separate calendars. But then you can have a view where there rolled up and you can see all of the calendar’s together. So maybe you have, you know, one of your silos if you have a siloed organization development or something and maybe program staff and they’re each working on their own calendar with either ideas or post there actually writing and then the editorial staff could see them both together. Get a bigger picture. Okay, xero the conflict points right cd you. Have too much content, too little. Yeah. Okay. All right. Where else should we go with with our content calendar? You know, we have ah, good. Another ten minutes or so together. What? What else should we be talking about? Well, i definitely think in this session, the buy-in was still a big issue. I don’t know give me waited like audience members were having trouble with having getting buy-in yeah, what? I think that was a big one, as well as the too many priorities and not enough strategy. So, you know, i really encourage people to just do it themselves if they’re not getting direction on what the limited number of messages should be or what the strategy really is. I say go ahead and you decide is the communications director and believe me, you’ll get feedback if you do something, they didn’t like it but it’s better to go ahead and provide some of that internal leadership from sort of managing from the middle, then to keep kind of floundering around. Yeah, and i think it also can be very tempting to say, okay, we have this editorial calendar, um and that’s our strategy, but it’s it’s not having editorial calendar isn’t a strategy and of itself, so we did talk about long term planning and needing that strategy, so the editorial counter needs to be informed by a strategy, but i think you can fall into the trap that you have the editorial counter, you’ve put everything on it, but then you forget about the strategy, okay, it’s, when you go over and you do the strategy and it doesn’t match with your editorial caldnear calendar, i think that was that was a problem that that came up in, that those two things don’t planning and strategy aren’t always hand in hand, and i would also just add that there was a fair amount of angst in the room about people feeling like planning than miree resulted in this rigid system that they couldn’t then produce any timely content within on. So, you know, what i always tell people is, you know, practice the rule of thirds, so a third of the calendar should be original curated content. Another third is you repurpose ing your original and curated content, and then you leave a third of your calendar open because, you know, stuff is going to come up, you may not know what it is, but something’s going to come up, so don’t over plan, but make sure you do have strategy built into that original content in that third in the in the repurpose content in that second, third, ok, yeah, that’s, really important. So i used to work for the international rescue committee, and they deal with man made and nature made disasters. And so you always needed to have that flexibility in your calendar. So even if it was a big women’s themed campaign in the spring that you have been planning for six months, you need to be able to have a little bit of room within that messaging to be flexible. If a tsunami happens or an earthquake happens or, you know, there’s, famine somewhere you need to be able to quickly pivot. Teo needs that. You need to react you right away without jeopardising everything else that you’re trying to get accomplished and a good content calendar. As katie said, we’ll leave room for those things. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profit to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. How do you deal with the case? Where you’ve you’ve got your calendar on dh? The organization is not respecting it. Maybe i don’t know if this is just the buy-in but, you know, other other other teams are saying no, no, no, i need this now, you know, or or some some something comes up from above that comes down from above that is now impinge ing on your ability to keep up with your own calendar, you know? But you respected my calendar when i showed it to you six months ago, and now you’re ignoring it for this other administrative thing or for this program problem or this fund-raising problem. But what you you dissing my calendar? What? What do we do? Stop dissing might stop beating up my calendar. Whatever you do, laura. What? Teo? Well, i think one of the things we talked about was showing people the process of what it really takes to roll out communications to kind of push back on that last minute. Itis because there is a process and it needs to be followed. So unless it’s an emergency coming directly from the ceo, you know, like step off, i can’t make that a priority now waken talk later. I mean it’s a process of education. So gotta make yourself heard. Yeah, i would agree with that. I think the mohr outside players can understand how much times something takes, how much time it takes it posa blogged, or to edit a photo or something that they the constant calendar maybe doesn’t do a great job of articulating that. Like how much lead time you need? Sure, it doesn’t get x product up, so it might be very tempting to say oh, well, you’ve got this big, you know, forge a hole between item one and item to let me put something between those two. And no, i need those four days to get item to done. So i think the education that you have to be able to say no and i need the four days i cannot do that. Otherwise item two will get done. So i think content calendars are not good at that. So that’s where the education piece comes. And james, you also talked about reinforcing it in face to face meeting. So if you have, like, a regular staff meeting where you khun very quickly go over the calendar, then it’s it’s going to start to become more clear. Okay, make it public office. Oh, yeah, we we go over. So we have ah, communications meeting once a week. And as part of that meeting, we review the content calendar with somebody from our program’s staff is balls that they’re aware of what’s going on? Sometimes you do need to check what’s in the plan right now. So i think in those situations, you just need to be very clear and articulating the trade off. So if you’re going to bump something, you’ve been planning for something that’s more timely. You need to actually say hay. We’re bumping this thing way, rescheduling it. Or are we completely throwing the work out? There’s an implication here? All right. And there is no plan for this reason, right? There was a purpose for this. And this is what is not now going to be fulfilled. Right? And sometimes you can use it later. You know, if it’s more sort of evergreen in nature, you just bump it down a month. Other times, you know, it’s lost work. But those were strategic decisions that you have to make and that’s where again, having some executive understanding of the communication strategy is important to help the communications team really make good decisions in those situations because they do come up all the time. All right, when are our boundaries respected? Right? Yes. Like i said, stop dissing my calendar. All right, so you guys spent the you all spent a lot of time, uh, in your session. What more should we be talking about? We’ve got another, like, four minutes for five minutes. What else? Whatever we talked about or what more detail maybe about something we we didn’t cover in sufficient detail. Come on. How’d you do ninety minutes together? What would you do for ninety minutes? Well, we turned it back on the audience quite a bit and had them tell us more about what the challenge is, where they were facing so and then you want share some of those challenges that we haven’t talked about? Yeah, short for detail going. You know what? One of the one of the challenges was also just time straight up. We don’t have enough time. So something that can can happen with a constant calendar, which i mentioned. When i was talking with then you have to schedule into your schedule the time to put things on the content calendars, it becomes another task on your list, you know, there’s another half hour of my time when especially for non-profits i don’t have a huge communications staff, it almost seems like it’s, just another thing that you have to do and there’s only two of you and you need to get everything else done. Anyway, i was thinking even just one yeah, i know we had a lot of people we did a little poland said, how many of you are our team of one? And you’re like a third? Yeah, of people who are just by themselves on, and so i think time was a big thing, but but i think that it content calendar can actually give you back some time, because if you’re it helps you plan longer term, if you’re going to use it that way, and so you, then you don’t have to constantly be thinking, well, what am i turning out next week? What am i posting on facebook on friday? Because of, you know already you’ve already done it, so yeah. It can it can take time to do, but it can also make you use your very precious time better than you would without it. All right, so you think it’s worth doing it for the one person short? I think it’s worth it for the one person shot because it just kind of keeps you accountable for what you’re doing rather than every day saying what my posting today, you know, one of the things i shared was that i originally used to do a lot of winging it, and i had a certain kind of a siri’s of facebook posts that i wanted to do, and every monday i was sitting down and thinking of one, and then when i kind of laid it out in a spreadsheet is like, you know what? I can plan like ten of these and schedule them in advance, and now i don’t have to think about it again, so thinking ahead in a calendar kind of way, actually, it did end up saving me time. Good is it worth if you don’t feel you can put every you know, every facebook post into account encounter having you’re bigger, you’re bigger items. All right, we know there’s gonna be a press release required for this announcement, and we know there’s going to be something coming out of the board of trustees meeting and this month, you know, so maybe just putting the biggest items there, you know, maybe not the day to day at least you got something down, right? You got a framework give me to work from yeah, so like a lot of people will just do their block post in their email, assuming that they’re going to repurpose all that into social and so they don’t talk about every single thing they’re going to talk about on facebook same thing with video that tends to be a little more production heavy, and so you’re doing video. You kinda want to treat that almost like a block post in terms of the production schedule to give yourself the time to do it, but you’re right, there’s bigger chunks of content are usually what goes on the calendar, and then a lot of people just sort of in their daily work process. No, that that’s going to go out on facebook or twitter, what other social channels are using? Okay, all right, laura, why don’t you wrap us up with final motivation? Why this is worth doing well, it’s going to help you see the big picture and it’s going to help you navigate your daily to do list a cz well and i think it’s just going to keep you more confident that you’re staying on task and hitting the themes you want to hit for your communications. Okay, thank you very much. Laura. James givi. Thankyou. Thankyou. Tony there. Lord norvig, digital media strategist that e t r james porter, associate director of external relations at the end fund-raising guide and also author and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc thank you so much for being with us next week. Design on a budget and communications mythbusters. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be spelling dot com. Our creative producer was claire buyer off sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And as music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Duitz what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation i expected to hell you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio, March 26, 2013: Discover Your Brand & Content Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Nadia Christina Tuma
Nadia Tuma
Nadia Tuma: Discover Your Brand

Nadia Tuma is a brand innovation strategist with clark | mcdowall. Your brand goes much deeper than logo and tagline. What’s the process to discover your brand strategy? Once you’ve found it, how do you manage it? Nadia and I will discuss.


Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Content Marketing

Scott Koegler returns. He’s our tech contributor and the editor of Nonprofit Technology News. What content should you post for consumption and where should you put it? How do you start your content marketing? Scott and I will discuss.

Both segments have survey questions. Please take a moment to answer three quick questions. You’ll find it below. Thank you! If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it.

Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey , the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://tony.ma/Zpjgmr

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Metoo hyre hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. I want to wish you cog, posca, so make i hope i’m saying happy easter in, i’m trying to say happy easter in hebrew and ah and happy passover in italian is born passat born peskay it’s march twenty ninth, two thousand thirteen and i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be disgusted to hear that you had missed irs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller, a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun, explained, the i r s is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Many plans are not up to code, and this is the year to fix the problems we talked about the common mistakes and what to do and compensation clarity are regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the san francisco law group, the non-profit and exempt organizations group answer these questions how do you determine what’s reasonable compensation for executives? What happens if camp is excessive? And what’s that automatic penalty that kicks in if you don’t properly disclose benefits. We did a mock board meeting and i walked out remember i had sound effects and everything. I’m amusing myself if you refuse to be amused. I’m amusing myself last week. I want to make something clear. Last week i had said that gary vaynerchuk, gary v you may know him as had been on last week, which would’ve been two weeks ago. He was scheduled to but he had to reschedule for may. Well, have him in may and i just want to make it clear i was not drinking last week. I had recorded the show many weeks ago, back when gary was still going to keep his promise. But then he broke his promise, but he made up for it. We love we love gary. I’m just getting gary in case any of his entourage is listening. We like gary v and he’s coming this week. Discover your brand nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark i mcdowell that’s not an eye there’s no period it’s clark vertical line mcdonnell that’s very dramatic clark vertical line, vertical mcdonald, your brand i’m glad not he’s laughing. She hopefully realizes that i wrote this copy. So i know it’s, not an eye. Your brand goes much deeper than logo in tagline i hope you recognize that what’s the process to discover your brand strategy. And once you’ve found it, how do you manage it? Nadia and i will discuss all that also content marketing scott koegler returns he’s, our regular tech contributor the editor of non-profit technology news what content should you post for consumption? And where should you be putting it? How do you start your content? Marketing scott and i will discuss that between the guests on tony’s take two planned giving is part of your fund-raising team that’s what’s on my block this week, i’ve got some simple ways that planned giving can support the rest of your fund-raising my pleasure now to welcome and introduce nadia christina touma she’s, a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdonnell i guess you know it’s probably supposed to articulate the vertical line. It was an ampersand you’d say clark end, but it’s not supposed to be clark vertical line mcdonnell just clark macdonald that’s where she’s an a brand strategy innovation ist her work is creating and revitalizing brands in our swiftly changing world. She’s on the faculty of the school of visual arts, s via the masters in branding program, where she teaches brand strategy. She has worked with non-profits such as slow food and why i see in the pittsburgh concert society and in college at carnegie mellon university. She had a minor in piano performance, and we’re going to talk a little about that, too. Nadia touma, welcome to the studio. Thanks for having me, tony it’s. A pleasure. Glad to see you laughing already. Very good. Um, co-branding i think there’s a lot of misconceptions about what a brand is. What? What? What is branding? Well, that is a very good question. First one out of the box. Alright. Alright. Complimentary. You could stay the whole hour. With pleasure. Ah, i often get that question. A lot of people don’t quite know what branding is. I have a lot of confusion even within my family and my closest friends there. Not sure exactly what i d’oh. I think the best way to describe branding is to define it as what? It’s not co-branding is not. Ah, brand strategy is not marketing it’s, not advertising its not a logo it’s, not pr. It is actually the foundation. And the strategy is really the backbone of all of those things that it will then effect. So, you know, a brand strategy consists of things like a mission, a vision, reasons for being the dna of what a company and its products stand for you. And then all of those marketing pr efforts are executions off that strategy. All right? And then you have to maintain your strategy once you’ve once you’ve devised it well, not only maintain that’s very important maintain, but also stay relevant and state different. So it requires connection to the world connection to your consumer. You know, the world is not stagnant, and neither should have brand be stagnant. S o you have a very solid foundation, but you have to move with the times as well. Now, how do world renowned brands like apple? You know, nike, how did they create that that aura around them? And you just say apple and people think of steve jobs, and they think of beautiful design and innovation and slightly expensive products. But how did they how did they had to create that well, that’s, really the magic question and that’s, why people like me exist which is to help companies really create that magic, but at a very fundamental level there are couple characteristics that make a brand very strong, one of which is its first of all, that it’s relevant, that it’s relevant to people’s, lives to companies, lives. Another important characteristic is that its distinctive so it has to be relevant. But it also needs to be somewhat unique um, and somewhat special in a way that the delights people there’s also another really wonderful thing that strong brands do, which is they defined categories, and they almost shift culture in a way. So if you think about really strong brands like apple, for instance, you know they’ve really changed the way we interact with the world, with music, with movies, with people, you know, and those very, very strong brands are able to almost do that and shifting culture, which is really cool. All right, so let’s, let’s, bring this to the to the small and midsize non-profit level. You talked about a lot of things in developing the brand strategy, but so let’s let’s. Try to flush this out. How do you how do you start? Toe create your strategy. What? What you want to be? Yeah, and that’s oftentimes the biggest challenges actually understanding. What is it? What is our reason for being? Why do we exist? And that’s challenging? Because a lot of times there might be differing opinions or different objectives within an organization within a midsize non-profit but but every non-profit has a mission statement almost always go to the home page it’s a simple pull down it’s right there in front. They all have a mission and you in a vision. So, isn’t that. Isn’t that the basis or there might even be some the differences of opinion? Despite that? Yeah, i know a lot of times the mission statement it could have been written by, you know, someone who founded it years ago, and it may not be as relevant or the way in which it’s interpreted might not be consistent across people who are making decisions everyday within that organization. Eso when we think about a mission statement it’s, you know, it’s sort of a first level and that needs to be agreed upon, of course, but from there there other components like understanding who were retargeting what’s our consumer, our audience, you know, what exactly do we offer, even from not just a functional standpoint, but an emotional standpoint, even if you’re just a midsize non-profit that’s all very important. S o sometimes mission statements, vision statements are written without those components in mind. And so that’s what needs to be really fleshed out internally, say, a little more about the emotion? Yeah, so you know every organization, whether you know, whether you’re lady gaga or your you know, proctor and gamble, you’re offering functional things, so you’re offering toilet paper or you’re offering entertainment and music, but you’re also offering, and i don’t think lady gaga uses ivory, so probably not right. I don’t think she uses anything anyone else used, but from an emotional standpoint, you also have to deliver something right brands need to make you feel something on dh. So even if your say, you know a local music organization that promotes local talent, there needs to be something emotional that the audience gets from using you. Otherwise you become just purely functional, and a purely functional offering is not a complete brand and we can articulate all the all this i mean, we can pull all this into ah ah, cohesive statement and understanding among all our different constituents are bored are our staff are sea level people, the people who are benefiting from our services, whether they’re students or or the homeless way? Yeah, absolutely. And what’s actually critical when you’re implementing ah, brand vision or a brand strategy is to get buy in from every level of the organization. So everyone who’s doing the accounting? Teo being a spokesperson, teo, you know, being the ceo all need to believe it’s it’s the difference i often tell my students it’s a difference between interacting with a customer service representative it zappos, who clearly believes in the brand to buying something at duane reade and interacting with the checkout person, okay? Or maybe state government, maybe that’s all right, that’s a good example of the other end of the day. Yeah, okay. We’re gonna take a break. We’re going to dive more into detail about how to develop your strategy, what that process is about. So now he has certainly stays with me. And i hope that you do too talking. Alternative radio. Twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service, sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com buy-in durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent got tons of live listener love china so well represented. Young jang kun ming chung ching, shanghai, shenyang, wuhan. I’ve been to wuhan and i’ve been to shanghai. Shi on is not there. I was in shi on to where she on left fans behind and she on i thought. But china chinese ni hao. Very nice to have you with us and seoul, korea and day. John korea. Very nice to have you with us on your haserot here in the u s new york, new york. Welcome, smithtown, new york. Welcome. Will smith times at long island, i think i think it’s long island welcome live listen, love tto all those live listeners and more to come. Okay, nadia touma. We’re talking about the importance of branding here. By the way, when you become a partner in your firm, i want you to tell them you want an ampersand before your name. Okay? Not the verdict. I don’t care what kind of equity they offer you a share in the corporate jet. You want not the vertical line. You want to be end too much, really? The memo percent um okay, let’s, go let’s, get into this process a little. Now all these all these constituents need to be involved. You mention from accountants to board members at sea level. Bonem what do we what do we start this this process with if we want to develop our brand well, there’s, just like they’re possibly dozens of definitions of what brand strategist do there’s also many ways in which a process khun begin. I’ll tell you my personal perspective. I truly i truly believe that partnering with whoever you’re working with is incredibly important. So getting together say, your ah brand strategy agency or you’re working on your own, getting together with that client and really sitting down and understanding what’s the issue what’s at stake what do your objectives try to understand? What’s our goal and together as a team really outline what a success look like. You know, it’s really define what those girls look like and parameters, you know, what’s what can we change what’s off limits? You know what can we not touch from there? I think it’s really important to get the perspectives of a lot of different stakeholders within that. Organization and try to understand is there are other inconsistencies among them in terms of what the mission is, what the vision is. Do they see the company going in different directions? Do they see in a different place in five years? What are the different strengths and weaknesses that various parties see? Understanding even that is an insight is to understand what’s our current situation. You know where the inconsistencies, where the commonalities and from there, we can start to create a common goal. So there’s a lot of conversation, a lot of interviewing focus groups. Is that is that it was that all part of this? Well, focus groups come a little bit later. So once you do wanna interview internally and understand what’s going on within, because the change will have to happen from within. So getting a good read on that is really the first step. Okay on, i did survey listeners before the show on dass cked in the past five years, have you given considerable thought to your brand strategy? A little more than half said yes. About close to sixty percent said yes. And then about fourteen percent said no and about a third said, i’m not sure what brand strategy means i better listen to the show, so i hope those listen, i hope you’re on. I hope they’re either in china, japan or smith down listening, all right, but no more than half have feel that they have given a lot of thought within the past five years. Well, i think in the past five years, there’s been a sea change in the perspective of brand strategy. I’ve seen it absolutely well, i think that brand i mean it’s still a nebulous term that clearly people aren’t quite sure what it means. I think that there’s been quite a shift recently in going going from financial measures on ly in terms of measuring success to trying to build in metrics that measure the quality of your brand as well. I think cmos and ceos are recognizing the importance of having a strong brand in addition to the bottom line. Now, cmo is a very common term for you, but here on the show we have drug in jail on i would hate wade. You have a female ward for for george in jail offenders cmo so that all the listeners know what you’re talking about, chief marketing officer excellent does a lot of non-profits certainly don’t have cme owes a lot of this falls right on the executive director or maybe a communications and marketing staff but might not be a chief marketing officer. All right, so we’ve gathered all this information from all the different constituents, and i think including importantly, people who are benefiting from the work that we do a zay said earlier, whether they’re students or they’re the hungry who you’re feeding the batter to your sheltering them in there, they’re certainly included, we have all this information. Now what? How do we coalesce this what we’re looking for, right? So i think that once we’ve understood what’s going on internally, we want to then turn r r face toe to the outside world and understand who are we affecting? So is that the hungry? Is that students and decide who was it really that were after? And i don’t mean after in a predatory sense, i mean, in terms of who’s, our audience, who are we trying to read? That’s actually an incredibly important part of it to really define that target audience on and i don’t just mean to finding it in terms of demographics, so you hear a lot of terms thrown around, like males eighteen to thirty four or moms with kids or the baby boomers. The reality of it is that each of those groups has shades and shades of different types of people so it’s more important to understand. Are you looking at moms with kids who are into organic food or, you know, are you looking at males eighteen to thirty four who are married and, you know, working full time or are things like that that that add texture to who you’re looking at and then it’s important to understand? Let me ask you when you’re doing that? Do you ever devise hypothetical people? Absolutely had guests? I’ve had two guests in the past. You have talked about that for in terms of marketing strategy. Yeah, about that oh, that’s. Incredibly important. So we call them creating personas on dh it’s. Really? It’s it’s wonderful to do with clients. Because i think one of the pitfalls of working all the time with inman organization is you start to see your audience as a number or, you know, a cell. In an exception, a stereotype of some complete stereotype and it’s. Amazing to see the way in which top level executives will react. Teo very well fleshed out persona and what i mean by persona is outlining the person as if they truly were a person. What do they like to do in their free time? What brands do they use in other categories? That’s incredibly important. What’s their education level. Where did they go to school? Where do they like to vacation? And you really bring that person toe life and they become someone that is relatable. And in that sense, i think you create better solutions, theun just saying, while we need to increase exp i twenty five percent and why by sixteen percent do you give those personas? Name’s? Vivian? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And a lot of work goes into that is, well, really the name? Yeah, sure. We’re okay. All right, all right. So i made you tigress labbate because that’s interesting cause the other guests i said have made the same point sabat so we’re coalescing this invention that we’re going outside. Are we doing interviews with with these potential personas? Were trying to meet people who fit the description of these different personas absolutely, i think that the most important thing to do is to talk to your consumer, and it’s really brings it to life. You, khun do surveys. My personal preference is to go out into the world and really interact with who you’re going to be speaking with on dh that could be done in a variety of ways. So ethnography zehr quite popular, and that means don’t get into that jail again, jack in jail ethnography xero when you go into the audience is natural habitat really so to speak? So if you’re studying, you know the way in which people consume alcohol, you might be going to bars or their homes before they go out. If you’re, you know, studying perhaps skin care, you might go and observe someone shopping for skin care. So you really want teo me? Clearly, it won’t be a pure experience because you’re their jotting down notes and you know, you’re obviously observing, but you do get to see those those nuances that you might you might not get if you’re in a focus group facility. Not to say that those air not incredibly valuable because they are one of the things you get from focused group that you don’t get in other types of qualitative research is that you get social interaction, so you’re watching people react to things, and then maybe another person says something that sparks another thing, and then someone else builds on that and you start to get these incredibly rich insights from whatever stimulus you’re bringing in. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdole, which you’ll find on the web at clark with no, no, eat the end. Mcdowell, m, c d o w a l l clark macdonald, dot com what types of questions are you asking these people? Well, that all really depends. It depends on the objectives of what you’re trying to find out. So if you’re if you’re doing just straight consumer package good type research such as skin care, alcohol or you nutrition shake or something of that nature you’re trying to understand really the needs behind it. One of the things that is let’s think let’s, bring it to a non-profit sure you’ve worked with a music and arts group in the past. Yes, i suppose it is. A small arts group. What what? What are we trying to find out from their their their constituents? Eso for example, for this small arts organization that i worked with, they sponsored and showcased local classical musicians in a recital setting. And they were having an issue with their audience. There wasn’t enough of coming to these recitals. So really it’s it’s not just saying, why are people not coming to a recital? That’s sort of just scratching at the surface? What you really want to try to understand or what are those unmet needs that is, is prohibiting them from coming, right? So what are those barriers that miss making people do something else rather than come here? And i think that’s really actually across the board what you want to find out and that’s incredibly challenging because people don’t know what they don’t want. So it’s very hard for them to tell you what they’re looking for, why they chose something else, exactly, or its group or a college why they chose it. Okay, so how do you start to get to this s o that’s? Really? Where the art meets the science it’s really that’s when you have to really sit down and create a solid methodology, and what that means is you really need to thaw. I almost think about what you’re trying to get first and work your way backwards. So if i’m trying to understand, you know what is really driving? Ah, consumer, not to go to our side and go to a football game instead really try to break that down in a way that gets sort of a roundabout way to get to them. You would never ask them. Why are you going to the football game rather than the recital? You’re trying to understand it a deeper level? What is that that makes them feel fulfilled? What is it that makes them feel happy with their free time? And then you have to do a lot of the back work to fill in those gaps. This is very esoteric. It’s. We call them leaps there you really have? Tio i almost asked around the question and look at that negative space in a way, and then make those connections to understand what’s missing. Okay, so all right, so now you’ve got your internal constituents, your external constituents. You’ve made some leaps. In judgment, there must be some kind of testing of what of the leaps that you’ve made, and the the early conclusion that you’re starting to draw? Absolutely. And this is when you bring it all together. So as you said, we spoke internally. We understood what was going there. We understand what’s going on in the outside world. And then now you need to bring it together and say, okay, what makes sense here if we have x and y parameters internally and this is what success looks like? And then this is the opportunity that we’re seeing in the outside world. How do we marry the two? How do we make a solution that makes sense given constraints, opportunities, but the organization and then what we see, as you know that that really juicy white space in the outside trying to bridge this gap you are between opportunity and on reality. Exactly. Okay, and so a lot of times, what will happen is you might have you might find these incredibly lofty, wonderful opportunities out in the world. And then what ends up happening is you do have to bring them down to earth based on what’s, actually. Possible on then. So there’s a process of testing on then what? What’s the end result of all this that’s a great question. Another one? Yeah, two out of twenty five. So it can take the shape of any number of things so it might end up being just a brief, you know, a word documentary, power point dahna document or it could be something that’s a little bit more of emmanuel, but essentially, what you’re giving is a set of guidelines. So, you know, you you should recount the journey that you’ve taken with the client so they can see how do we get here? You know, what does that look like? And then once you’ve told that story, you outlined things like, ok, what is our positioning mission vision statement? What does it look like when we apply that to our pr? What does that look like when we apply that to our visual identity? How do we talk about ourselves? All of these sorts of sort of guidelines to help you talk about that strategy that you’ve created? How do we talk about ourselves in terms of actual words and maybe stories that we tell or or things like that? Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s, all those executions i talked about at the beginning of our conversation. You know, what is advertising look like? What is marketing look like? Not from a here is a an ad, but thank you. Here are here’s a type of language you should be using here. The types of colors you should be using. The tone, the personality, all of these things that affect the way someone might interpret your brand. How do you feel that, uh, musical performance overlaps with with the work that you’re doing? How does that inform your work? Well, i would say that generally speaking toe work and brand, you just have to be curious. Keep your eyes open, be interested in a lot of different things because you have to make a lot of esoteric connections all the time. So music is just one of those other things that sort of opens your eyes and ears and fingers and a very different way exactly. And share what? What it is that you love about the work that doings. Clearly, you enjoy it very much. Very passionate about it. What? What is it that moves you? About what you’re doing, you know it, it’s it’s incredibly interesting because you are studying people and you’re studying societies and how people feel about things and make decisions, you know, ultimately, companies really are creating products and services for a changing world, and that means that you have to study the world and study interactions and connection and what you love about all that it’s incredibly interesting to be a part of and does the nature of the business is you’re always working on a different type of industry and a different type of consumer. So you’re always learning, you know, deeply about a lot of different types of things, thanks very much for being a guest, not here. Thank you for having me. Pleasure. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdowell at clark mcdowell dot com right now we take a break, and when we come back tony’s take two about plant e-giving as part of your fund-raising team. And then scott koegler returns and he and i are going to talk about content marketing. Stay with me. You couldn’t do anything to getting dink dink dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get him! Nothing. Good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is planned e-giving is part of your fund-raising team i’ve got there five strategies for using planned giving to help other parts of your fund-raising there’s no reason that plan giving should be silo or blackbox. It should be supporting all your different fund-raising methods on you will fund, for instance, when you’re meeting a planned e-giving prospect, certainly you want to know ahead of time whether they participate in the annual fund and if they have been giving annually, you want to thank them and if it’s appropriate asked them for an increased gift to the annual fund if they’re not participating annually. It’s appropriate to ask why? Maybe there’s objections that you can help to overcome and and find a new annual donor that’s one that’s one way of helping the annual fund corporate support, maybe corporate sponsorship if you know in advance or you learn in the meeting, that person works for a company asking about the possibility of corporate sponsorship. Not that they would be the decision maker, but maybe they’ll make the introduction to who the decision maker is and that entree is always valuable now than being strictly a cold call to that office. So there are lots of ways that plan giving khun support other types of fund-raising i’ve got more ideas on my block. The post is called planned e-giving is part of your fund-raising team and that’s at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty ninth of march, the thirteenth show of the year. Where did march go before we bring scott on? I want to send more live listener love we’ve got guangzhou, china and nokia, finland and porta vallarta, mexico. Now, if i can figure out if we can identify those cities, how come it’s united kingdom? Why is that? We don’t even know the country and uk? Yeah, you well show you irish english, we don’t know what i’m going to say you’re you’re welsh because that’s the least likely so welcome from wales and if you’re not in wales, why is your what is your identity, your location being masked? We don’t want your street address, but certainly country would be nice, scott koegler welcome, i’m doing terrific, scott koegler we know him he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it and p tech news, dot com he’s, our regular tech contributor, and this month we’re talking about content marketing what do we mean? Marketing? Yeah, what do we mean by this? You know, i actually for a different name for that, i call it authority marketing because it’s really, you know, you’re trying to, uh, trying to put for information about things that you know about your so you’re asserting your authority and you’re letting the people that you talk to, hopefully that read, whatever it is you’re doing, i know that you are authoritative on then the short part of that is that you’re not really selling, although, you know, being an authority and something means that hopefully people will come to you when they need answers and when they need services and products, i see that that’s what we’re talking about, okay, authority marking is a little more more descriptive and and what would a, uh, what types of things would non-profit want to be demonstrating authority in? Well, you know, the short answer there is the things that the non-profit is about so the cause the methodologies they’re using again any anything that they that they know about so that’s kind of across the board for non-profits and also for-profit type organizations. But non-profits can talk about just all the things that they do. So it’s, you know, it’s putting forth your message in a non marketing kind of away. Okay, so you and i have talked in the past about surveying people to find out what their interests are. There might be value in doing that to find out what about your work or related to your work interests them? Sure, sure. You know, you always want to get feedback from your constituents. And sometimes you get feedback from from a survey. That’s that’s a very good way to go. You know that your percentage of respondents varies all over the place. You know, i’ve had i’ve had anywhere from one percent. Twenty percent response rate course, twenty percent is great. But it’s it’s tough to achieve. Yeah, has to be something very, very interesting to them. And you might heat, you know, so that maybe a second or third generation of your of your survey, you know, kind of homes in on those issues now, but you know, another way to get feedback on what’s interesting is to get feedback on as comments on articles that you post in a block and those you generally get significantly less percentage, but those are typically more insightful. They’re more direct, you know, you know that they’re interested in that particular topic because, well, they read the article on they’re responding to it. So it’s very good way to get get responses. Now you have an article at n p tech news dot com, which says that only we have a number of articles, of course, a couple you do, but this one specifically says that sixty nine percent of non-profits are not blogging. Yeah isn’t in that stunning in this age of every you know, every schoolkid has a blogger and, you know, uh, it’s tough to imagine that, you know, almost, uh, almost three quarters, certainly two thirds of non-profits are not putting out a block, so, you know, i won’t say shame on them, but shame on well and our listeners are consistent with that. One of the poll questions i ask before the show is is your non-profit blogging at least. Twice a month that’s not even very common, but i made it a low threshold twice a month and seventy one percent said no interest. Only fourteen percent said yes, the other fourteen percent they didn’t know. So this is very consistent, actually with with what your article is just within a couple of points dahna way believe that the block is a good place for all this content. How do you do get started with your block? If you’re in that sixty nine or seventy one percent is not doing it. I will say that it’s not surprising that the number is so high because even though the technology for putting together a blogger is really easy and really available and even free and i’ll talk about the specifics in just seconds, the time to do the blog’s is a very scarce commodity. You no way talk about operations and and events and all the things that have to go into a non-profit and there are a couple of things that are critical to writing a block one is the time to write the second thing is the ability to write, you know, cogent phrases and just, you know makes things that are right, things that are interesting on getting somebody to actually be consistent. So those three things are, you know, probably the killer’s toe actually producing a block on a consistent basis. So that’s one thing that’s this very difficult, overcome and that’s why a lot of organizations or maybe something not as many as we might think, actually hyre out there blogging, and they get professional writers or managers to produce content for them and manage the the website, the block, whatever it’s called and send for them, you could try soliciting content from your constituents could, whether they’re the people benefiting from your work. Or maybe if you’re a bigger organization, maybe some of your employees can contribute. I don’t have to be writing right could be video absolutely there’s all kinds of different blogging tools now one of them and we’ll just kind a segway into this. Yeah, you know what? We talked earlier about pinterest that was a couple months ago on dh pinterest, you know, i mean it’s really a blocking platform, but it is a way to put out dahna typically images or videos of of information that’s of interest to the organization and to the constituents. Another one that you well, let’s, step on pinterest, pinterest is not all that time consuming. Because you can be. You can upload your own content, but you can also be out on the web. You find something that’s interesting, relevant to your work. You you just pin it to a board using the earl. Great it’s it’s. Very quick and easy. The good thing about it is that it it keeps it can keep a consistent exposure. Uh, that if there’s a negative, i would say that it’s it really is not generally original content. It’s something that you you found and shared, right? Right. But it’s it’s bad, but it’s not really blogging, right? No. Right. But it’s jemaine to your work. And could be interesting to your constituents who are interested in the work that you do, right. And what you just said there is, you know, being interesting to constituents. That’s really the key to any of these you’re you’re content curator of of content, and you become an authority, hopefully within your within your sphere, right? I think, you know, tend to touch on that authority issue if you’re if you’re pinning some content that’s not your own, uh, that maybe, you know, kind of the reverse of becoming the authority. Okay, you’re a curator and that’s a good thing. So you’re bringing things of interest, but you haven’t really added to the authorities factor. So somebody who’s actually interested in what you pinned is just going to click on that pin and jump to the site. That weird originated, so i’d be careful of their, you know, but it is a place to get exposure. All right? Let’s, talk about the block you had. You have some suggestions about getting started with blogging? Yeah. One of them you talked about was was tumbler and tumbler is, i guess, it’s a version of interest and that it’s, highly visual. Um, but you actually can post content there. You can also curate it and post. So on it’s a free it’s, a free resource. You could just create a account you can upload pictures of your events. You can upload text about whatever it is that you’re doing. So so that’s. Ah, relatively easy way to get in. It’s, it’s, inexpensive and fur and supposes cheap on dh free i think? Yeah. Okay. And that’s t u m b l r write the word tumbler without the okay. Okay, so, yeah, i would suggest that maybe uneasy. Wait for an organisation to get in where there really isn’t any there’s. No overhead. It’s, quick and easy, todo. Now, wordpress is very popular, but that’s that’s maura, traditional type written blogged, right. Uh, correct. Right. Word press is probably the white, most rightly used blogging platform, although there are plenty of others but that that could be for you can actually do a you can set up your own wordpress block account by going tio it’s. Um, we’re press dot com, actually. And you could get the free option and start with that. And so you can set that up and you can actually just start to write articles. You can write the articles right within wordpress and just click save and it’s published so it’s very, very simple todo right there there are elaborate wordpress blog’s but you don’t have to shoot me not to start. You certainly shouldn’t start there. You start seeing i would say start with just the three one and go from there add content had pictures. If you have videos, you could do, those two do. Although the free site has restrictions on, you know how much you can actually upload and save to the site. Okay, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, we’ll talk a little about maybe creating cem video, that’s, that’s, simple to do, because that could be compelling authority marketing. Now i’ve had to change. The name of the segment accommodates got from content marketing now already marketing that’s. Ok, i’m flexible, you flexible, dammit! All right, we could take a break. You stay with us, scott will, and i hope you do, too. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com that’s, monte t m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Oh! Welcome back. Tokyo, japan, fukuoka and metallica, japan welcome konnichi wa. Very nice to have you with us. New york, new york and memphis, tennessee live listener love and our listener in the united kingdom. We sussed you out. You tried to hide, but we learned that you are in manchester, england. So not welsh after all, which you may be pleased to hear that you’re not welsh. Well, you could be welsh, but listening from manchester but probably not. So we found you despite your efforts. Teo cloak on. Be deceptive. All right, scott koegler let’s, talk a little about video because video, you know, you and i have talked about this before, it doesn’t have to be high production phones that take shoot video are so common you could arm your employees or your other constituents with the phone, maybe at an event or maybe just on their own. This could be good authority, content authority, marketing, absolutely. And it’s uh, sometimes actually, most of the time, it turns out to be very current because the videos, as you just mentioned a lot of time, shot with their with their cellular cell phones with their smartphones, and we’re even just any kind of digital camera now takes video. Uh, of course, the smartphones. You, khun, take the video posted almost live on, you know, the face of people like to see themselves and people that they know so particularly had events. I saw one organization that recently kind of they turned around the old thing about putting the the, you know, the throwaway camera on the table? Yeah. And they put a card on the table that says, use your cell phone, uh, shoot a video and uploaded here, and they got i think they were just overwhelmed. They think they’ve got a couple of hundred up loads. So, you know, that’s good and bad, right? How do you use and select the ones that you wanted? But it did. It proved the point that it was a very popular option and something that people would engage with immediately. So just kind of take that idea further. What do you do with that? Um, you can either download those those videos and create a kind of a montage using your own software, or you don’t have to do that. You can actually use tools within youtube to, uh to mash up your videos on create, you know, kind of an overview doesn’t have to be ah long or complex or even, you know, two super high quality just paste a bunch of pieces together, right? You to diligently, of course, youtube has editing editing tools right now. There’s a sight that we know one listener maria simple likes because we know maria because she’s, a regular contributor and you talked about this site almost a year ago on a moto for video. Exactly an emoto is great. Um and, uh, i mean, what it does is it allows you to use both video and still images and create a you know, we’ll call it a video, and it actually is a video. Even if you have images there, uh, there’s basically photos, and it does very complex transitions. You can overlay text on it. You can overlay background music on becomes very engaging. So, you know, in a matter of probably ten minutes, you can produce one of these things. Yeah. Maria maria has been using it for a non-profit that she volunteers with, but she heard about it from you first. And like i said now, it’s been close to a year she’s using it all right? And we’re just, you know, a free tool that’s simple to use and, you know, sort of quick and dirty video that can be can be moving or informative, right, exactly an authoritative and that, again, just the good kind of go back to that word that’s really, what we’re trying to do here is to increase the believability that you’re just you’re not just somebody out there trying to raise a few bucks for, for who knows what you know, but you are actually an organization. You have a purpose, you know what you’re talking about, and it gives the people that you’re communicating with something teo grab onto teo to associate with and maybe even to, you know, get it personally and personal involvement with well, there you go, that’s that’s what this is all that we were trying to engage, we’re trying to have a connection, a dialogue so that you become affiliated with the work well aware of the work and then hopefully become affiliated with the organization, maybe as a volunteer, maybe as a donor, maybe just as a spokesperson and an advocate on the web right? Absolutely. And you know right back to the blogging section. And you mentioned, you know, get some of your constituents, your volunteers, whatever to to contribute content. If you have a relatively large organisation, you have a much better chance of getting, you know, five or ten individuals who are able to contribute something. If you could get them each to contribute something every two months, even you’d have a you have something to become consistent with. Consistency is one of those things that really counts. Okay, on dh there’s, your there’s, your sort of army of advocates and and volunteers. I mean, you may never make that. You may never meet the people, but if they’re contributing content once in a while, they’re supporting your work. Exactly. Exactly. We did have a correction for you, scott. The forward press sight is its wordpress dot or ge. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, i got sign up. Dot wordpress, dot com uh, so if you want to go directly to the sign up, but you’re right, wordpress dot or ge is where you go first. I am sorry. Okay? That’s okay. Okay. No, no, no. All right, but sign up. Dot wordpress dot com. But if you want to go directly toward press and learn more about it, that would be wordpress dot org’s. Okay, now you what? You’re trying to be an authority buy-in and i really messed up well, but i want to help you. It’s xero there only nine thousand dollars will do good. Only nine thousand people listening. Well, no. Nobody listens to this show. So it’s not gonna matter. It doesn’t matter what you say. Any closing thoughts you want to leave people with in their authority? Marketing? Um, i would say it’s it’s something that really people are hungry for, even though there’s plenty to read on the web. Uh, you know, the old thing, you know, you can’t publish anything. It is untrue. It’s untrue. On the web, right? Yeah, of course. But i would say just along with that, if you if you plan to go into this one of your main goals, should be to be consistent and to do it on an ongoing basis, you know, putting up one post every three months just is not really gonna do anything. It’s. Probably worse than doing nothing. Scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news at n p tech news. Dot com and scott remind us what your twitter ideas it’s xero scott koegler course spelling koegler is not easy. So it’s seo t k o e g l e r all right, scott, thank you very much, but with this, we’ll have you back next month. Thanks doing my pleasure. Thank you. More live listener love, new york, new york, memphis, tennessee and richardson, texas live love to all of you hope you’ll be with me next week when we’ll be talking about talk between the generations. Phyllis weiss haserot is a consultant in cross generational communication. Ines boomer boss in a general i worker gen x boss and a boomer worker how about a general i fundraiser and a boomer or boomer plus donor? 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We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect. No more it’s time. Join me, larry shop a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. 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Nonprofit Radio, May 4, 2012: Survey Savvy & Content Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Paul Gearan
Paul Gearan: Survey Savvy

Paul Gearan, a partner at Professional Survey Group, explains how surveys are cultivation tools for your donors. You can increase awareness of your work; gauge willingness to support; heighten sensitivity to challenges; and get feedback on how you’re doing. But you have to do it right if you want reliable results.

Please take a moment to take the survey for this week’s discussion with Paul. You’ll find it here at the end of the guest and segment descriptions. Thank you! If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it.

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Content Marketing

Scott Koegler is our long-standing technology contributor and the editor of Nonprofit Technology News. This month he encourages you to give away high quality, interesting content through your blog. You are blogging, right?


Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey, the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CXHJPHR

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but a small budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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“Like” the show’s Facebook page, and join us on LinkedIn too.

Make sure to tune in at 1pm ET on Friday and you can share your observations on Twitter by using the #NonprofitRadio hashtag on Twitter.

Here is the link to the audio podcast: 090: Survey Savvy & Content Marketing.
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No. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for may fourth twenty twelve big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host i do hope you were with me last week, i couldn’t stand knowing that you had missed, get monthly givers and strategic organizations, raised more money, get monthly givers was bob wesolowski the president of caring habits, and he helped us get habitual monthly donors through electronic funds transfer. A lot of people know that as ft that was pre recorded, a tte philanthropy day two thousand eleven and strategic organizations raised more money. My guest was starita ansari, president and chief change officer at msb philanthropy advisors. She encouraged you to organize thoughtfully around your mission, looking strategically at your inputs, outputs and outcomes to boost your fund-raising revenue that was also pre recorded at philanthropy day last year. This week, survey savvy paul gear in a partner at professional survey group explains how surveys are cultivation tools for your donors. You can increase awareness of your work gage, willingness to support it, heightened sensitivity to challenges and get feedback on how you’re doing. But you have to do it right if you want. Reliable results and content marketing. Scott koegler is our long standing technology contributor, he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, and this month he encourages you to give away high quality, interesting content through your blogged you are blogging, aren’t you between the guests, tony’s take to philanthropy jargon, do you speak and write in terms that people can understand? You can use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter were also on linked in i’ll say more about that later on, tony’s metoo right now we take a break, and when we return, i’ll be joined by paul gearan for survey savvy. Stay with me. Yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. No. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s a lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna durney welcome back with me now is paul gearan. He is a partner in the professional survey group. He has extensive experience in survey design, online surveying market research and social science research. His career has been focused around research and data analysis for the past twenty years, and i’m very pleased that his practice brings him to the show. Paul garin, welcome. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s. A pleasure to have you how useful are surveys for small and midsize charities? You know, i think for a lot of organizations, they really provide some core informations that oftentimes people within organizations kind of our internal debates about and there’s not always great clarity with what some of assumptions are being made. And i think research with particularly donors and stakeholders, but also uses of charitable charitable services give you a lot more specific. Clary on whether your fulfilling the elements cia mission that are most critical to you and most critical tier donors. So i think in that regard, you know, this becomes critical information not only to kind of get a sense of an evaluation on how you doing now, but also if you’re involved in long. Range planning and trying to look toward the future of how you should evolve on dh. Part of what you said is you could resolve some internal differences about the way things might be going or the way things should go. So maybe some of those internal arguments can be resolved this way. Yeah. I mean, i think that’s one thing that, you know, it’s funny, because when you work with people who say what we know all this we know we know we know exactly, you know how people feel about us or you know how we’re doing, and we know what our strengths and weaknesses are, and then you start to talk to different people in the organization. You find out very different assumptions with many people. So part of part of the problem might be unwillingness toe do the survey because then you have reliable information and your opinion might end up being the wrong one. Yeah, and that becomes a challenge for us is outside consultants and how to be able to do the research that they get away that’s not biasing any particular perspective and be able to present it in a way that people understand and take, you know, internalize that taking an understanding and continue to to think about things because we were we don’t have an agenda, we want to get to what what reality is and i think that’s one benefit of sometimes of having another group that’s outside your own organization do the research because you don’t have a kind of bias voice, right? That objectivity just you have to be willing to recognize that your side of the argument might be the loser exactly and, you know, like with everything we try, destruction is not, you know, presented that there’s winners and losers, but there are certainly times when you come down on a certain side and things are unambiguous when you, when you survey people and, you know, eighty percent say they don’t they don’t think you’re doing a very good job of this particular element of of your portfolio of services that you know, that that’s meaningful, that that’s pretty undebatable and one of the survey questions that we ask and i want to thank you for designing our first professional survey. Thank you very much. It’s usually it’s usually the hack job that i do, thank you thank you for for lending your services to the to the survey before the show, and one of the questions we asked is how satisfied are your key donors and stakeholders with the performance of your organization? Currently and three, two thirds said either very satisfied or somewhat satisfied. But then roughly one third, about twenty nine percent said i’m not sure, so they’re not there there’s some uncertainty there about what their donors and stakeholders think about how they’re doing. Yeah, and i think that’s, you know, that’s where we you know, where we come down in terms of how important this is, if, you know, a third of people really don’t have a good sense of that, you know, how do you move forward and know that the measures you’re taking the programs you’re supporting, the way you’re administering it all the way you’re going out and trying to get external support for our right and are going to be solid going forward? It’s certainly difficult to know if you don’t have some kind of reed and even the kind of very, very southside, somewhat satisfied, you know, that kind of comparison, although i think when you just research you find most people are somewhat or very satisfied, but, you know, is the bigger bucket very satisfied? Because those are the passionate people, supporters, those of the people that, you know, i really going to stand by you in the long term, somewhat somewhat satisfied, you know, they’re going to be the kind of people that i got more loosely affiliated affiliate in terms of long term, long term support. So you know, those those ki kind of things we bring to the table and be able to kind of say, you know, hey, yeah, eighty percent of your people your donors or somewhat are very satisfied, but, you know, only thirty percent of very satisfied and that you want to see flip, you want more people that kind of passionate what’s called top box, okay, right, i got you so yeah, so so don’t be so satisfied with somewhat satisfied, exactly what’s outside it is you’re doing fine, but in a world where, you know, people have a variety of different ways where they could distribute this support and all, i’m sure deserving causes, you know, being in a somewhat satisfied bucket doesn’t really distinguish you. Got, you’re ok, and in our survey was about forty three percent were eyes felt that their donorsearch stakeholders were very satisfied, there’s about twenty nine percent somewhat satisfied we have just about a minute before break, you can also be surveying people outside your donors and stakeholders, right? Amore amore, broader audience, maybe just your community? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, i think, whether it be local community, if you can, a local organization or we’ve done work for international organizations that we’ve done national studies forward to get kind of general population awareness. So for example, if you’re, you know, organizations say your aa group focused to its animal protection there’s a lot of those kind of groups out there, you know, where do you fall in terms of visibility compared to those other organizations? And what could you do to perhaps increase that? Where do you need to? Kind of kind of do your messaging? You know, what were the vehicles for communication and also one of the important messages that you need to get out there you can connect with? Ah, wider population. That may be more supportive of your group when there’s other competition. Come on. I hate to say competition, but not-for-profits. But obviously there’s people in the same space, all doing great work and believing in the organizations you know, that want support. We’ll take a break. Paul. Paul here is going to stay with us. We’re going to continue talking about surveys and survey savviness, so stay with us. Co-branding think dick tooting getting depicting you’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. Nothing. Good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that come mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rotter with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. The ladies said it for me, so i don’t have to say big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Paul, we were just talking about maybe surveying beyond your immediate donors and other stakeholders. But when you, when you do survey dahna people who are committed to you, it sounds like i mean, there could be some value around helping you to focus your mission in your core. Yeah. No, i think when you, when you talk about people that are closest to you, there’d be a core donors or donors in general or other stakeholders like, you know, people in the legislator that might legislative that might be supportive of you. You know, other advocates in the area that the different kinds of stakeholders beyond just a donor base, too. Yeah, but i think that’s where, you know, you really get a sense of people that know you well that care about the cause that are a little bit more discerning. And even the research you might be able to split those people out to where your core people, who were the people that know you best and who are kind of people providing regular donations cubine may not be tracking his services in consul here’s the core people were, and i’ve done that kind of research before. We’ve is it? Okay, here’s, the stakeholders that really know you well, what do they think of you? What does the kind of broader base of support think ofyou and kind of look at that? But i think that’s where you really get are we on our mission? Are we feeling the promises that we were making to the community that we’re serving into the people that supported think that if if they don’t, then you’re in real trouble? So if you find out that you they think you’re kind of falling short on a couple critical pieces of your mission, well, it’s, time to reflect and see is that a statement of messaging in information? Or is it truly a deficit in the services you’re providing? This could also be valuable in doing strategic planning. I mean that’s basically everything you’re saying could could contribute to a strategic planning process. Absolutely, because i mean that that’s the element we’re dahna only checking on how you’ve been doing, but what are the existing are you keeping up taste with the existing needs of the community, the population just serving so you may have done a very good job continue to do the job in your basic mission, but are there new challenges in us space that air coming up that maybe you’re not keeping apace with fast enough that, you know, for five years down the road, you that’s going to be the critical area that they would like you to see serving? So, you know, it’s a matter of how we doing now, but, you know, looking forward, one of the critical issues moving forward that maybe, you know, obviously you just think about the last he isn’t changing economic landscape suddenly the needs of people and in the nation at large, in the world at large have changed quite a bit, so you can imagine tryingto strategic plan five years ago when everybody the economy was hail and going full steam and and how that changed so dramatically and how you might need to change your kind of perspective and outlook long term as an organization, if you’re gonna serve people that now might be having additional challenges that didn’t. Exist a few years ago. What about just surveying aboard? I mean, could you use this as a way to anonymously gather opinions of just your board members? Absolutely, you know, always tricky because, ah, few key comments on they reveal their name, but that’s kind of one thing that again sometimes using outside organizations helpful because we can kind of get that and not only kind of, you know, clean the data such that, you know, we present things back to people so we can be sure indemnity, but also kind of educate, like, how do you use this information? But absolutely, we’ve done that kind ofthing, not boards employee research is are the people in your organization believing that you are on on on the beam with what your mission is with what your services? And sometimes we done both rose, since we’ll survey kind of outside populations donor, and then inside populations are those consistent, you know, people seeing problems that the outside world is seeing that are a sign of future issues are going to struggle with or vice versa, you know, you guys think, you know, internally, we think we’re doing great, but externally there’s a gap there, and perception and let’s talk a little more fund-raising too, you could use this tio test some different fund-raising messages, couldn’t you? What resonates best with donors protection? Actually, you know, one of the key kind of components in determining your messaging and fund-raising whether you’d be even if you think kind of educational institutions, colleges, secondary school, things like that. Um, do you kind of lead in your messaging with what makes you distinctive and unique, or do plead with the messaging that will have a broader appeal to a wider audience in the example sometimes uses, imagine that you’re either an all women’s college or a college with a long a particular religious tradition. And are you trying to kind of narrowly focus on people who value those things above all else, or you trying to kind of go out to a broader population and get a bigger, more diverse set of people in your in your school with which those lead messages might not be the most buy-in including and appalled, but how can a survey be used specifically in that example, then? Well, you can do is you can put out a variety. Of different messages and test the desire ability so say we describe a certain organization in certain with certain keywords and messages. He’s, how desirable would be that organization terms of you supporting in donating money for that organization? Then you have on the group of messages which both of which may be true about this organization again if it’s done anonymously and people don’t know the organization’s even more helpful than that. So i’m thinking, okay, so if you don’t know, the organization has done kind of blind like that, you know, to what degree and that’s kind of more talk more general population study, uh, how desirable these other set of descriptors? And then you get an idea about for my example for you, you’ll find out, is that the quality of faculty and staff and teachers and ability to develop your own individual kind of curriculum and and, you know, looking at the social and personal development that person will be the things that test out best and things about a particular religious affiliation although may not test our poorly aren’t going to be the core values of the wide group of people you can use those secondary messages to say because we have this tradition, we are unique position, so so then you can even use surveying toe helpyou sequence is your messages exactly, and so that’s what we’ve done, that exact thing with the you know, imagine the front page of your website or the front page of your of of of your kind of guide book, or whatever written materials you produce being those upfront primary messes, and then you think about what the secondary and we’re the tertiary ones because you don’t want to run from your uniqueness, either. I think it’s important to feel like you have unique ways to contribute, but you need to tie them into the core values of the population just serving, or the people that made support you in order to truly make a connection with a wide audience if you want to get to a very narrow base, well, that’s a different story, but for the most part, people are trying to exit chadband their scope and expand their flexibility in terms of either who they serve or who supports them just going back. Teo mission focus. One of the questions you asked in the survey was, how confident are you that your donors or other stakeholders are clear about your mission on dh? Everybody said either completely confident or moderately confident, but teo related to the point that you made earlier. How does brooke break out the first and second, only about a third were completely confident in two thirds were just moderately confident that people who know the organization are clear about what the organization does, right, and that’s and that’s, you know, going a key difference. We’ve done the research study for, you know, a local organization in new england that was doing prodding a variety of different services to local community, including, um, shelter and providing food services, heating and utility helped and things like that and, you know, they were kind of known for two key things, and they had a suite of fourteen of fifteen services that they were really proud of and and felt like that gave them a unique kind of very wide based impact on the community, but when you surveyed their donors, they were known for a couple key things and, you know, i think they want to feel like they had a much broader on. Understanding among the people that are supporting them and their stakeholders of what they really do. All right, paul guerin is a partner at professional survey group. You’ll find their sight at professional survey group dot com and we’re talking about survey savvy let’s talk a little about some of the nuts and bolts. What? What are the variables that go into determining how to do your survey? Well, you know, i think this, you know, there’s three major kind of modalities actually collected information that’s phone based research, online research and paper surveys come in person interviewing as well, but paper serving as kind of died out a little bit, but phone and online being the biggest and online, certainly in the last decade, really taking course. So one of the kind of determines is, well, how can we get to our population? Do, for example, do we have pretty good e mail, pop penetration or accessibility so that we could do something online? Do we not? Then we’re going to have to do a phone based survey will i’m sure phone his phone is quite a bit more expensive exactly that, you know, we do a lot of online, because, again, we’re trying to build on south getting, you know, a broad base of information for people with costs issues, and one thing i do kind of tell in organizations is there’s there’s a difference between sophie was well, if we go out to online that’ll bias up sample because the only people that are online a lot, our people check their email. Well, that may be true, but what are we trying to achieve here? You know, we can actually do this study for, you know, a fifth of the cost if we go online and are you really going to get that different information? Are you trying to pinpoint whether a certain question is seventy percent of seventy five percent or you’re really just trying to understand that here, the things people think we’re doing well, what is the kind of top bucket of things here’s? The things we’re not doing so well on the actual specificity of the data is not particularly critical in terms of well, yeah, maybe it’s a little bit biased in one way or another, but you can actually pull off the research financially by using your online they upleaf except with were also in that example. Isn’t it relevant whether the email using the active email using population is going tio have some some bias toward the objectives of the survey? I mean, does it really matter that a lot of people check the email? Eso they’re going to be the ones who will have a greater propensity to answers that really matter to the purposes of your survey and your charitable work and that’s kind of one of the first things we talk about with you, let’s, let’s talk through the ratification. So if i find out, for example, a group says, you know, we have about fifty percent emails, i said, well, who do you have e mails? Well, it’s, mostly people, you know, younger, ok? So then age could be a legitimate buy-in factor. And so then i said, well, you know, given that, you know, if we look at your donor and then the actual kind of looked at the percentage of monetary support you’re getting, you find out that eighty percent of the forty and over well, we’re not going to want to exclude them from the study in that particular case, it’s worth saying okay, maybe we do a mixed methodology of phone and online. Or maybe we do phone it’s worth that. So there’s certainly a circumstances where i would say, you know, in this particular circumstance is biased and there i was i would say, you know what? For what you want to know, it’s. Fine to get read elearning online population that’s that’s. Okay, what’s the i gotta move on a little bit. Paul what’s the reliability across you mentioned phone, email and and paper surveys are they do they vary in terms of reliability. They vary in terms of kind of, i think what i found actually study on several years ago in a previous lifetime, but that phone research people tend to be, well, one thing briefer because you in-kind getting getting them stirring the phone researches it’s more active and you’re actually pursuing people to prove spade in the research. The downside that is that sometime you’re catching people that’s a very narrow window, which is kind of catch them on the phone and do this as on online or paper, they could do it at their own leisure. So sometimes you get very truncated responses, particularly if you asking kind of open ended items about that require commentary? We’ve also found that people tend to be nicer on the phone, so if they’re rating you on a scale of one to five it’s harder to say something bad, it’s harder to be a negative on the phone. Yeah, so not that it doesn’t happen, but you tend to see the scores being slightly higher on the phone, an online or paper where you don’t have that what’s called a demand characteristic, you know, social expectation of being nice, okay, so that that’s a big difference i’ve seen between phone versus the other two methodologies is this is this something? And we have just, like three minutes or so before before we have to end all this talk about serving, but is it is it something that charity khun i could do on their own? If we’re going to a short survey, can they can they do this and be successful? You know, you know i at they can, you know, i think there’s always caveats about making sure that you have, you know you’re asking questions in the right way you’re not biasing your questions in a way they’re going to get you information. That is what you want to hear and not necessary. What these actuality but there are tools out there like surveymonkey and bloomerang that are going online. Survey tools that are relatively easy to use if you just have a short survey it’s not that complicated you want to get a bunch of yes, no questions or some commentary you khun go use those those were relatively inexpensive. Certainly this free virgins of them. But even the kind of pay versions they are very, very inexpensive her month way you surveymonkey for the for the show’s a sze yu know exactly. You know that, you know? And for a lot of needs, they can solve them. You know, if you want to get a quick read on you can pop out a survey monkey auras bloomerang survey tia population. You could certainly do that yourself. They’re fairly easy tools, tio. Okay, but then if you’re going deeper like this is part of a strategic planning process or you’re not sure about the mission focus that you should be you should be engaged in for the next over the next five years. I mean that is more detailed, and you want to probably have someone professional helping, so you’re eliminating biasi? Yeah, i think if you’re going to get into that depth and really talking about shaping the way your organization is currently are going to operate in the future, then you need to really we’ll get somebody to kind of look atyou survey and like what we do with lot of they will say, hey, what what role do you want us to play here and what you know? And we could do that with what, what? But you have? And at minimum, let’s, look over your survey and say, well, you know, that question isn’t going to get what you want, it’s going toe it’s going toe secure the issue more than going to clarify all i have to stop because we have just a minute and i want i want to talk about getting feedback, is it? Is it wise to share survey results or to tell people that you’ll share the your your findings with them like everything it’s, context dependent, i bias towards sharing? Yes on i think thinking on how you’re going to do that because i think especially when you’re you’re serving people close to you, either your own employees or donors. They’re gonna have an extra day. Shinhwa what happened with this information? What did you do with it? What did you find? And what is he going to be? Action. So i’m very biased whenever is appropriate. Find a way to share the information. The main information, the survey, maybe you don’t need to share everything. Maybe something’s a kind of nuance that you wantto kind of work on internally. But i think some of the main things not only what you found, but what you’re going to do with it. I think that is a great power. It makes people feel like, well, there’s a reason i did this research and i contributed because now the organization i care about is utilizing an unproductive went. Paul garin is a partner in professional survey group. You’ll find them at professional survey group dot com. Paul, thank you so much for being a guest. No problem, tony. Have a nice day. Has been a pleasure. Thank you. Take your right. Now we take a break when we returned. Tony’s take two on philanthropy jargon. Stay with me? You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Geever are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed on montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt. Y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back before scott koegler joins me it’s time for tony’s take to my block this week is philanthropy jargon. If you google philanthropy jargon generator, you’ll see what got me thinking about jargon in the non-profit community it’s a random collection of now nhs verbs announce adjectives and verbs, but not in that order, though thinkit’s, verbs, adjectives and now nes andi it’s a little disconcerting. I think that somebody, somebody thought there’s so much jargon in philanthropy that they should create a generator to help you create, create your own if create something, if you if you’re at a road, block your mental block and you just can’t think of the right phrase, put in a random jargon phrase and and you don’t have to define it because people don’t define jargon so that’s little disconcerting. Um, got a lot of comments on this on this post over a dozen some people use it. Teo, i think some people use jargon to sound smart, which is unfortunate, but there was one comment or someone uses jargon to screen for expertise because hill, he’ll ask people what they’re lie. Bunt and sideburns rates are and leibrandt is someone who donated last year, but not this year and a side bunt is someone who didn’t donate it in some year, but not this year, keeping myself out of jargon jail, of course, so he uses it to sort of screen that’s interesting, but generally i think you want to communicate so that people understand what you’re talking about. The jargon generator, i think, is fun, but you wouldn’t want to use it as your dictionary as your when you’re writing to donors or ah, potential funders. So post is called jargon. The post is called philanthropy jargon it’s on my block also on my block is a connection is a link to our linked in page we’re now on linked in. You can communicate with us there. Tell us what you like about the show don’t like about the show, maybe some show ideas or some guest ideas, please share that with us on our linked in page, and you’ll find all of that on my block at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, may fourth, twenty twelve, the eighteenth show of the year, and i hear the phone buzzing. There is scott koegler scotty. How you doing? I am here, tony, how you i know you are doing well, scott koegler, of course, is our long standing tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news. We’re talking this week about content marketing. Scott, what is content? Marketing? Uh, content marketing. You know, i actually don’t like that particular title gave it to me. Okay. I know. I gave you the guy stabs me in the back in the first sentence. What can i say? All right, well, i’m calling you out. It was your type. He changes. Mind you’re entitled change minds. Go ahead. What do you what is this thing that we don’t have a name for? Well, we have we actually have many names for it. I prefer using something like authority marketing because the point of this kind of thing is that you write stuff and you you send out articles that our authoritative in your particular space authority marketing says has such gravitas to it. It does. It does. Actually. Sounds like it should be jargon. No, but the point is that what you want to do is you want to give people something to read that that’s not anything new that’s, you know, newspapers and everything else that’s been published forever. I want to do that, right? So we’re encouraging people to block is that? Is that where we’re headed? That’s part of it? Yeah, that’s, uh, we’re encouraging people to put out information that the people that they want to talk to are interested in knowing about that’s, that’s it, or whether it’s blogging, uh, whether it’s, uh, you know, paidcontent, uh, whether it’s, maybe even aggregated content, which we can talk about also, which is actually pulling information from other locations, and then writing about it. Okay, thank you for defining that keeps self out of jargon, general. So we’re very jargon sensitive this week. You can tel i i hear that. All right, i get the get the keys. I’m i’m on the trigger. I’ve got a hair trigger. So, content marketing authority marketing. Um, let me just talk a little bit about what i think content marketing is okay. It’s actually been a bad name for me because it’s, uh, it’s really it’s being used by what’s called content farms, which are sites that, like examiner dot com maybe to a smaller degree, but they they pay very little to their their authors. And the and the point of little writing is to get keyword rich maybe keyword overblown articles, because then then they sell advertising space, right? They shall advertising space against those. And until recently, google, you know, could be fooled into paying a lot of attention to a site that had a whole lot of appropriate word. All right, but not great content and cheating the writers. And that sounds terrible. Alright, that’s not a terrible, especially since i’m late i’m against. All right, um, good. So the other side of content marketing, which i call authority marketing, is creating articles. However you do it, whether it’s yourself, blogging or whether you actually pay somebody to write for you what co-branding information and putting it out there for people that you know, something, they’re interested. In actually reading, not just the google will find it and bring it up in search results because it’s much better people actually go to your site because they want to go to your sight because he has a reputation on dh that is not stuff that’s necessarily touting your good work. Oh, i mean, it could be stuff that’s valuable in because it’s related to what you do write an interesting that way? Yeah, think of it as a cz yourself, if you’re mean, you know, we know what you do, and we know well, i know some of the things you do, and so what are the things that people would write about and publish that would bring tony martignetti to a website, you know, on it may it may be about non-profit but it may also be about creating, uh, creating audio’s shows that draw audiences and maybe that’s related to non-profit or not. So you really need to know your audience that’s really big key, okay? And i want to say that generally i’m an example of what not to do so i appreciate you using man’s example of what should be done or who could. Be done could be let’s, not goes for us should, but generally people would be wiser to take the course opposite mine and self deprecation is one of those things that comedians really like to get into. I do that’s true, but we know that most charities don’t blogged, right, isn’t you have an article sixty nine percent don’t block and yes and that’s true. And you know what? I think what happened is that over time and i’m talking about the last now ten, twelve years blogging got to be, you know, everybody blogged, um and so, you know, it was your block and your mom read it and that kind of stuff, and it turned out to be pretty useless for most people because they may have written something, but nobody cared. Yeah, and so i think that the blogging that name blogging got a bad lap for a while. And so whether let’s just talk about content creation rather than block. Yeah, because there are other ways to do it to youtube and other ways that you mentioned before, lots of ways and content, as you just kind of alluded to is not necessarily their word it could be what you’re doing right now. The audio shows it could be video, it could be animation, even it could be a whole bunch of things, but the point is to get something that’s that is interesting to to the people you want to talk to so that they then say, g i and, you know, wonder what tony’s got going on today. I think i’ll go over and check in sight, right? Right? And then they’re rewarded at least at least fifty percent of the time that they find something that they like. You don’t have to hit one hundred percent not going to hit on percent, all right, all right, okay. And a way of just tow bring the show. That sort of full circle may be a way of finding out what your stakeholders may be interested in is to survey them and also to find out where they are, whether they’re whether they’re active in social media or more active. Just an email. Yeah, exactly, right, exactly. Because the way you’re going to deliver it goes to your point of knowing your audience, right? And just because you have an audience that you talked to primarily by let’s say email doesn’t mean that you can or should ignore the social media. I’ve got a couple of websites that i managed and i do content creation for them, you know? So so i’m kind of in the business and every time that we publish an article, we also sent out a tweet and a facebook update and they linked in update and those go automatically so anybody who’s looking at us from any of those locations in addition to the weekly email that we send out, has the opportunity to see what we’ve done and you know their choice. They come read more about it or not, but at least they’re getting notified, right? And the interconnectedness between all these social media properties, the one you need, the ones you’re named and you might put flicker in there also can be very much automated, right? Right with a with one exception of google plus which is not yet still released their their a p i that allows automated system’s supposed to for them? Yes, jack, you are shows social media manager regina walton doesn’t outstanding job of knowing how to do all those interconnected ah messages. But it’s it’s really not very hard now and then, but that’s the key is sometimes you can’t automate everything. Sometimes you just have to have, you know, somebody put in the time in order to do what’s, right? Absolutely. I just i don’t want to discourage people thinking you have to have a social media manager in order to make these interconnections it’s valuable because i’m producing so much, but you can’t do it on your own, too, right? Absolutely. Let’s. Talk a little about aggregated content you mentioned. What? What? What does that mean? It sounds like way. Don’t have tio write everything on our own. Yeah, they were produced everything or whatever aggregating content and stealing stuff. Okay on dh aggregated, aggregated content. Basically what? Here’s the here’s. What happens? You get a google news feed on our ss feed, you monitor somebody’s block that you know, has good stuff that you like and let’s say that tony wrote a block that i really, really like. It makes a lot of sense for us. My my leadership would probably like to read that. So i got a choice. I could just copy and paste it into my sight, which tony probably wouldn’t appreciate, right? That’s very bad. And not only that google. Well, actually, uh, take us down for that now it won’t take us down, but they’ll they’ll decrease our popularity because they say, hey, this is already than publish whyyou republica interested? Okay, they know they don’t really care about the fact that you plagiarized um, but they do care about the fact that it’s not original. Okay, so what i would do with that is i would write, you know, maybe a couple street who’s that tony martignetti wrote this really interesting post about jargon this week on his block. If you want to read it, click here. So what that does is it gives me something to comment on, and it lets my readers say, cheese. Not only does scott put out this stuff that’s interesting to me, but he’s also bringing me things that i may not have known about from other sources. So this is really a good way snusz to be to find out things that i want to know and what it does for tony, of course, is it brings another reader to tony site it’s really a good wayto work, aggregated content understand very, very organic way of bringing people to your site on give it back by by giving them value. Right? Excellent. Scott taylor, of course. The editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find at n p tech news. Dot com in which at which point we actually do all of those things that i just described. Okay, you conceive an example of it there. Thank you. For ah, what had been a segment called content marketing but became authority marketing. Thank you very much, scottie. Thanks very much. My thanks. Also to paul garin for being a guest this week. Next week. Five bullets to a better oh, we, uh oh, my. Cutting him off a little. Scott, you still there? I’m still here. Okay, uh, i’m i’m wrapping up the show five minutes early, so you and i still have time to talk. I’m still grateful to paul garron, but it’s, i’m looking at the wrong segment, so we’re going to take a break and hope everybody stays with us and scott you especially, i’m here. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading. Learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Talking. Welcome back to the show, and as i’ve made the point earlier, we i definitely an intern on this show, so i have somebody to blame from steaks like the one i made right before our break. S o if you know someone who wants to be blamed constantly for my mistakes, please have them send me their resume, and that sounds like a really great appeal. I’m sure i’ll get a ton. Um okay, scotty let’s see, i’m here. Yeah, different the different platforms that we might use different properties that we might use for our authority marketing have different personalities, right? I mean, you might not necessarily do the same thing on twitter that you would on facebook on dh versus linked in certainly, although the social media platforms have a whole lot of commonality to them, but right, twitter is only going to take, you know, a sentence and maybe a picture where is facebook could take more than that lengthen could take more than that. Google plus could take significantly more on that. Actually, you can publish directly on google. Plus, i don’t particularly mentor recommend that, but it’s people have done it on the menu. That’s interesting. I’m sorry. I just ask, why? Why do you say that about google? Plus what? Why not putting fresh content directly on google? Plus, um, google plus is like a hyper blogged in that the content rules by very quickly and so it’s very difficult to them find something of interest down there if it’s kind of rolled off of your screen. So okay, so not like, uh, it’s like a regular blonde or an online publication where you’ve got a nice kind of a content management system, brings things to the front, keeps him there for some starita time and then actually could be found easily in the published right. And and i think the length of articles is a big differentiating factor. If you have anything longer than a few sentences, you really don’t want a post directly on social media. Okay, you want your own, you want your own space, you want your own space, and then you wanna leverage the social media that has the first paragraph, maybe or on a link back to your your own content site. Okay? And sort of wrapped up in everything we’re talking about. Is that the same? Content can be used in different ways. I mean, on dh lynette singleton, who is on twitter often retweeting the show on dh lynette, thank you for doing it today she is at s c g the number four non-profits on lincoln on twitter if you wanna follow her, um, makes the point that, you know, one one piece of content can be used across lots of different platforms in different forms. Absolutely. I’ve even multipurpose, um, that has gone, taken an audio podcast like yours and has transcribed it into text. Oh, interesting on and then what? And then they just post that really? Okay. That’s interesting. Yeah, i can either be edited, so that was more of on article or serious of articles or can be just posted as it as it goes. I think they successful way to do that would be split it up in the articles, post them as content and maybe even link back to the recording of the show. So there’s, somebody prefers to here, they can still hear it, and i could see a value. And that would be you’d get some search engine value from the transcript because search engines can’t. Search audio. But all those words that are in the transcript would be searched if that’s exactly right. And there there are many ofthe offshore overseas services that will transcribe at an unbelievable rate. So, you know, i may not be perfect, but it’s it’s enough to get to get online and get it, maybe useful enough for someone to say. Yeah, i see what he’s saying, but i prefer to hear it so they click onto the the audio stream. Got it right. Okay, but again the point, multi multi purpose ing your your content coming and going back to the earlier guest ball. Gearan a survey could be something that is used as authority marketing. Absolutely. Because what you doing in that place is getting your readership to become the authority. And people like, you know, they have there. They’re their word and their opinion. I would caution we do surveys for some of my properties as well. And there is there’s a survey burnout where you just continue asking people for their opinion and well, you know, at the first couple of times they really like it. Especially if you give them feedback and write an article. About what? What they said. But if it’s too long or more continuous or too frequent, you’ll notice, uh, extreme drop off your respondents. Yes. Okay. Okay. We’re going to leave it there for for for real this time. Scott koegler as you heard multiple properties he’s, a land baron on the web and again the editor of non-profit technology news, which is that n p tech news. Dot com that’s one of his property. Scott. Thank you very much. Thanks, tony. Talk to you later. It’s been a pleasure. Let’s. Try again next week. Five bullets to a better budget. Paul connick stein. Principle of mission first finance knows how to create a budget that is aligned with your work and is a useful planning tool and he’s going to share what he knows that’s, that’s important doesn’t really matter much what he knows he’s gotta share it and he’s going to do that next week. You can check us out on facebook. You can check us out on linkedin. We’re on youtube also the youtube channel name israel. Tony martignetti because some young guy from boston stole the the tony martignetti so i’m real tony martignetti and you’ll find a lot of interviews on that youtube channel. Khun, listen, live our archive for the archive, you goto itunes, which is non-profit radio dot net. You can listen there, and you can subscribe so that you can listen any time on the device of your choice. On twitter. You can follow me, i’m at tony martignetti and the show’s hashtag is non-profit radio. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules on our first remote will be starting in june next month. I hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday one to two p, m eastern, at talking alternative broadcasting, which is always at talking alternative dot com. Co-branding think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, get him. Duitz good how’s your game. Want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop. Second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level. Bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it aspire, athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. 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