Tag Archives: communication

Nonprofit Radio for March 29, 2021: Cure Communications Gaffes & Talking Mental Health In Your Workplace

My Guests:

Julie Ziff Sint, Claire Thomas & Shafali Rao: Cure Communications Gaffes
Our 21NTC coverage begins by explaining what to do after you put the wrong gala date in an email, or send a letter to the wrong segment. Might an intentional mistake improve open your open rate? Our panel is Julie Ziff Sint, Claire Thomas and Shefali Rao, all from Sanky Communications.




Dan Berstein: Talking Mental Health In Your Workplace
Also from 21NTC, Dan Berstein helps you avoid a different gaffe: Saying the wrong things when faced with challenging behaviors or mental health disclosures. He’s got easy-to-follow strategies. Dan is founder of MH Mediate.


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[00:02:22.04] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into zero Estonia if I had to mouth the words you missed this week’s show Cure Communications Gaffes. Our 21 NTC coverage begins by explaining what to do after you put the wrong gala date in your email or send a letter to the wrong segment. Might an intentional mistake improve your open rate? Our panel is Julie’s. If ST Claire Thomas and Shefali Row, all from Sancti Communications and talking Mental Health in your workplace, also from 21 NTC, Dan Burstein helps you avoid a different gaffe, saying the wrong things when faced with challenging behaviors or mental health disclosures, he’s got easy to follow strategies. Dan is founder of M H. Mediate on tony State, too. How are you doing? We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. Here is a cure. Communications gaffes. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC That’s the 2021 nonprofit technology Conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications. Turn hyphen. Two dot c o. My guests at this session are Julie’s. If ST Claire Thomas and Shefali Row. They’re all with Sancti Communications. Julie is vice president of account and Strategic Services. Claire is copy director, and Shefali is senior copywriter. Welcome, Julie.

[00:02:22.57] spk_2:
Thanks for having us.

[00:02:23.81] spk_3:
Welcome to be here.

[00:02:32.24] spk_1:
So, uh, let’s see. So does everybody work for Julie? And then then And then Claire reports The Shefali is It doesn’t work like that. I’m sure it’s a very collegial place. Thank you. Community were totally lateral. Totally flat. Everybody gets the same pay. Everybody is exactly the same

[00:02:54.44] spk_2:
way. We’re really collaborative agency, but I work more on our strategic side of things. And Claire and Shefali are two of our genius copywriters who manage our clients messaging.

[00:03:37.34] spk_1:
Okay, I think it’s important to flush this out. So give folks a feel for swanky communications because they might be working with you someday. Your workshop topic is my bad to all. Good. How to repair a mistake in donor communications. So, like if you dropped an email with a mistake in it, or you sent out an email about the gala, and it has the wrong date or the wrong time. That’s that’s That’s a particularly egregious one. We would think we would catch that in copyrighting. So, um, Shefali, let’s start with you. How does these things happen? First of all, like suppose that example? Wrong time in the gala invitation. How could that How could that possibly happen when we have multiple eyes on projects on communications?

[00:04:14.34] spk_4:
Yeah, you would think that it wouldn’t, but sometimes it just misses all sets of five. I actually gave this example, even in the conference, but I used to be a journalist, and I used to be at the news desk copy editing and one day on the front page in a headline. The word public was missing an L. And that just went out the next day. And, um, the good news is that we have a system we have, like, strategies in place where we kind of make those mistakes work for us. Which is really what our workshop was about.

[00:04:18.19] spk_1:
Yeah. I mean, you could have some fun. I don’t know. Pubic might be tough. to have fun you can have fun

[00:04:22.29] spk_4:

[00:04:36.74] spk_1:
without getting carried away. I mean, I think making light of a mistake, a gaffe. I use that all the time. I mean, you’re suffering with a lackluster host, so don’t be surprised if this comes up three or four times in a half an hour. Um, like the banging? I don’t know. You know, I have you here that banging

[00:04:42.14] spk_3:

[00:05:03.04] spk_1:
little. Okay, it’s It’s a hammer. There’s guys working on my stairs. You might hear vacuuming because they’re very fastidious about cleaning up. You might hear some, uh, sawing drill drill. Uh, circular saw type work. Um, not that that’s a gaffe, but, you know, it’s background noise. We got to call it out. If I can’t hide it, I’m gonna flaunt it, so well. Shit. I gotta ask, What did the paper do with, uh, public to

[00:05:20.94] spk_4:
pubic? And then we printed into the collection the next day. That’s all you can really do. That’s not the fun way. I mean, it’s not a fun where it was pretty upset about it, but we have actually had fun with some of our mistakes in the bus. Right?

[00:05:24.44] spk_1:
Okay. Who wants to share a mistake that, uh, so

[00:05:27.40] spk_3:
one of them One of them was in the footer. You know of an email and, you know, these things go out all the time, and and everybody is real careful about the

[00:05:36.00] spk_4:
content of the email, and And

[00:05:46.34] spk_3:
was the subject line perfect? And you kind of forget to be as careful about the footer and in the footer to the donors. It said eight cents of every dollar goes to programs services.

[00:05:51.34] spk_1:
Okay. Yeah.

[00:05:52.64] spk_3:
Now, most people already wouldn’t even see

[00:05:55.27] spk_1:
that Most people are going to look at the footer,

[00:07:01.34] spk_3:
right? This and this is an animal shelter. So? So when when it was caught, we were like, Okay, so we’re So what we did was we said, Okay, let’s let’s send it up. But let’s stay in character for how the donors know us. And we we have with this with this, um, animal shelter. We have a really fun, friendly voice. And so we sent out a correction email, and we used it to educate donors on what the truth is. And what we said was forgive us if you are, forgive us for our mistake. Um and we try. We’re pause P a w positively horrified. We made this mistake because the truth is it’s 82 cents of your dollar that goes to programs services, and we’re really proud of that. And then we talked about how we care for donor services. But we kept the really used pictures of cute puppies and kittens and, you know, it was all friendly and fun, and it was a good chance to educate the donors on what the actual You know how the organization uses donor resources. And,

[00:07:25.04] spk_2:
of course, the silver lining on that example and everything else is that when you do have an effective apology like that, um, you can have extraordinary engagement with your donors. So for that example that Claire just shared, we had over 50% open rate and almost a 5% click through rate, which is more than three times as high on both metrics as as you might hope to see.

[00:07:39.04] spk_1:
Yeah, Julie, I was going to go to you. Uh, so it sounds like the first thing you should do when you discover one of these gaffes is don’t panic,

[00:07:40.84] spk_2:
never panic. Panicking definitely does not help

[00:07:43.58] spk_1:
you accomplish your compound, right, you’ll send the wrong thing. You won’t think it through. You’ll blow the one chance you have to really fix it well, so keep your head on.

[00:08:35.44] spk_2:
Panicking definitely doesn’t help in any environment, I will say before, you know before you get there. It’s definitely worthwhile to have a comprehensive QA process. Um, and quality assurance process. Make sure that you’re going through steps to try to avoid the mistakes in the first place. But then, yeah, once the mistake happens, because no matter how good your quality assurance process is, mistakes will happen. Um, so when something does happen to be able to, like you said, don’t panic, figure out what was the mistake? What was what type of mistake was it? Is there an opportunity there? There might be a silver lining. There might be an opportunity. And how can you? How can you apologize in the most effective way? Or turn the mistake into make some lemonade from that lemon and really find a good silver lining there?

[00:08:58.34] spk_1:
What if someone is screaming at you? Maybe it’s a board member who just got the email. Maybe it’s the CEO. Whoever someone senior to you is furious about the mistake. Yeah, about them. Yeah, not about Not about what you’re wearing that day. But yeah,

[00:09:03.86] spk_3:
I’m just because the other problem is when the donor picks up the phone and starts to screen with you, right?

[00:09:20.34] spk_1:
Okay. It could be a donor, but I was trying to manage in the office first, but that’s a good one. Clear. We’ll get to. We’ll do that later. The secondary. The secondary market. Yeah, the other constituents. But how about right in your office? Uh, you know, a CEO or board member? Well, we’ll consider board members insiders for purposes of our conversation. What do you do there? Furious.

[00:09:49.54] spk_3:
Yeah. Yeah. And the first thing to do is to say, this is this isn’t all bad. There’s There’s probably an opportunity here. And we had a whole section on opportunities. Every every one of the case studies that we presented and the our speed round where people were talking about all these are the mistakes they made, you know, we talk about Well, there’s an opportunity there, like shuffle. You had some great ideas about opportunities.

[00:10:22.94] spk_4:
Yeah, and I mean, the first question you asked that the step was How does this happen? You know what I mean? Like, how do these mistakes happen? And they happen because there are human people at the other end of that happens like we all make mistakes. And sometimes the donor wants nothing more than to know that a person is at the other end of these communications. And that’s your opportunity right there to say sorry. Build a connection to make, like, some sort of personal, heartfelt apology. Um, and then you have a lasting connection with the donor.

[00:10:51.04] spk_1:
Claire, let me continue with you where we’ve got a furious supervisor here. Doesn’t it help to just also say, I’m sorry? I mean, I know, I know. I know. I made a mistake without trying to deflect or, you know, just even if it’s not 100% your mistake. Like if two other people read the copy also, but but the CEO is in your office in the moment. Oh, yeah. You just say I know, I know. We messed it up or I’m sorry. You know, I mean, just right, well,

[00:10:56.17] spk_3:
and and it is, you’re you’re absolutely right. But then there’s the other. The other mistake that you just alluded to when it was completely out of your control. Julie, talk about what happened with the USPS this year.

[00:11:30.54] spk_2:
Oh, my goodness. And so this is, you know, there are definitely issues that are outside of our control, right? So, you know there was for people who use Blackboard Online Express there was one year that it stopped taking donations on giving Tuesday. There was the black pod data breach last spring and summer. Gmail started hard bouncing in the middle of December this past year. And then, of course, in direct mail, USPS had delays and we had some of our clients were sending out holiday fundraising appeals at the very beginning of December. But then the seeds weren’t even received until the beginning of January. So if you’re mailing that,

[00:11:54.84] spk_3:
you think Yeah, I mean, there’s There’s a pissed off CEO pissed off client pissed off everybody that people didn’t The donors didn’t get the asks.

[00:11:58.54] spk_1:
Yeah, it’s

[00:13:06.94] spk_2:
outside. It’s outside of your control. But there are ways to make that into an opportunity. We had one client. They had sent out a mailing that talked about a December 31st, matching gift deadline, but people didn’t receive the mailings. Um, it bombed. And so we have brainstormed with them. What can we do to figure out a way around this? And we ended up doing an email campaign in early January that effectively said, We understand there were delays with the post service. We know that you may not have received our appeal letter. We would like to tell you that even though it said that the matching gift deadline was on December 31st we talked to the matching gift donor, and we’ve been able to extend it. Please make your contribution now, and so you know it’s not going to necessarily completely counter active. You know that’s not our mistake, but it’s not going to completely counteract that problem. But you can still look for a silver lining. You can still try to connect with the donors, show them that you are a human, show them that you’re all partners together for the mission, um, and then bring them back on board for for the mission.

[00:13:26.44] spk_1:
Claire, you you seem to be the one who raises the good hypotheticals. Alright, let’s let’s go outside now. I suppose it is a donor on the phone, so it’s not. It’s not a supervisor, but now it’s a donor. You know, maybe it’s maybe they’re the ones who maybe they’re the challenge donors who December 31st, you know, in January 3rd, they got the they got the challenging male or whatever it is, you have an upset donor or a very upset volunteer. How do you manage that?

[00:15:20.44] spk_3:
Well, first of all, remember that the fact that someone has picked up the phone and called you you have a dedicated donor on the other end of the line. This is a person who cared enough, cared enough about the work that you’re doing and is invested enough in the mission to pick up the phone and complain. So you’ve got someone on the phone who really cares, and then you kind of follow some basic steps. Remember feelings before solutions? Let them vent. Let them say whatever it is that made them angry and listen to it and be sympathetic and listen for opportunities to connect and then solve the problem. Sometimes it’s that it’s that the donor says, Well, I only wanted to be mailed once a year, and this is the third appeal I’ve gotten this year, and so you know you have a chance to draw them into a conversation and get them talking about why they care about the organization’s work, why this mission matters to them. Once they start talking about why they care, they usually talk themselves into wanting to give. I’ve been in the situation where I’ve been the person talking to the donor that was angry and letting them talk and then finding a way to, like, say, Well, that’s a really good point and I think we can We can address that mistake and then upgrading the donor getting them. That’s actually how I started in fundraising. I was. I was asked to call donors who were angry, find out what the problem was and and then just these were people who had pledged money, and we’re going to pay it off. I raised all the money they had pledged just by listening to them just by solving little problems that they had really small. Um and then they ended up being very dedicated, the organization, because again it’s what you’ve always said is that human human, you know, these are people on both sides of the equation. Philanthropy is, of course, the most human of acts.

[00:15:40.74] spk_1:
You all know the service recovery paradox.

[00:15:44.84] spk_3:

[00:15:46.44] spk_1:
really, I haven’t. We

[00:15:49.33] spk_3:
do that. Pardon me? My suspicion that we actually do that.

[00:16:07.54] spk_1:
Well, yeah, you’re you. You could very well be a part of it, but, um, it’s bona fide. There’s research. The service recovery paradox is that someone for whom a mistake occurs and and has that mistake satisfactorily corrected will be more connected to the brand. I think I’ve seen it more on the commercial side will be more connected to the brand than someone for whom a mistake never occurred.

[00:16:20.14] spk_3:

[00:16:21.62] spk_1:
actually, you’re describing Claire like your clarity talking about upgrading people who were upset.

[00:16:28.24] spk_2:
There are a lot of psyche communications. We were founded by sinking pursuant. Um, back in the late seventies. And there are a lot of myths around Spanky Pearlington. Um, and many of them are not verified.

[00:16:42.65] spk_1:
Uh, thank you, man or a woman or

[00:16:44.76] spk_3:
she is a woman.

[00:16:49.84] spk_2:
Um, I think he was a nickname for Selma. Um, apparently, maybe that’s the new thing that we can learn for today. Um,

[00:16:54.61] spk_1:
I think

[00:16:55.60] spk_3:

[00:17:24.44] spk_2:
know so So There are a lot of a lot of myths around her in the industry, but one, and I have no idea if this is true. But I have been told that she used to plant mistakes and direct mail letters because there was an increased increased responses or an increased response rate or an increased giving. If there was a mistake in the letter, people would actually right back, correct it and send in their check while they were at it.

[00:17:26.56] spk_1:
That’s brilliant.

[00:17:27.84] spk_3:
It’s brilliant,

[00:17:43.84] spk_1:
right? They love you enough to point out like Claire was saying, they love you enough to point out your mistake. But then they might feel bad about not including a check. So you’re you’re you’re helping them get over the hurdle of, uh, whether to reply, you’re giving them a giving them an even better reason to reply. And by the way, they feel bad. If they if they only complain so they’ll give you money too well.

[00:18:05.94] spk_3:
And we writers like to believe that once somebody has noticed some kind of little mistake, they start reading for other mistakes, and then they actually get hooked into the message. Those of us who spend all our time crafting those messages. It’s our chance to hook them.

[00:18:13.44] spk_1:
Shefali, do you do you deliberately? Have you ever deliberately honest Now have you any deliberate mistake in?

[00:18:18.61] spk_4:
I have to say I’m having this conversation. I’m already thinking of, like subject lines that maybe you have a mistake, but not super obvious. But it would get people to just open the email.

[00:18:30.64] spk_1:
Wait, wait, I want to flush this out. We’re getting good advice. This is the stuff I love. A nonprofit radio. Actionable, actionable advice. What way?

[00:18:53.54] spk_4:
What’s an example? For example, I’m just thinking, What if the subject line just had somebody else’s name and you click on it? Because you think OK, this person made a mistake? That’s not my name. And then you open it and says, Just getting Of course we know you’re tell me because you are one of our most dedicated supporters,

[00:19:06.84] spk_1:
Okay, but they think they’re being voyeuristic by opening it up. It’s made for somebody else. I definitely want to check that out more so than I would read my own. The problem with

[00:19:09.64] spk_2:
tony that that that will be great with the donors. It may not be so great with that CEO that comes into your office yelling.

[00:19:24.34] spk_1:
Well, I should get approval in advance and say, Look, I want to want to test it. I want to test it exactly like we’re going to send 1000 that are that are misnamed than 1000 that are correctly named And, uh, let’s see. Let’s see which one pulls better. Which one clicks through better. You want to

[00:19:34.69] spk_3:
share one more?

[00:19:36.33] spk_1:
I have these copywriter minds think it’s amazing. Anything else occur to you while we’re talking?

[00:19:42.54] spk_4:
No, that’s it. I mean, new campaign idea in two minutes. I’m pretty happy with

[00:20:13.64] spk_1:
that. Yeah, right. Okay, well, we’re 17 minutes in, so try to try to up your game a little bit. Were already. You’re only one idea in 17 minutes. We’ve got to do a little better than that. Um all right, what else should we talk about? The crisis communications management is this This is this is no, I mean, that’s a crisis, but we’re now we’re moving to organizational crisis. Where the where the local paper headline and it’s not good. Who? Julie, you got You got a first bit of advice for that.

[00:22:10.54] spk_2:
Um so I think we we go back to where you started with before, which is always start with. Don’t panic. Um, for many of the organizations that we that we work with, one of the first things that we do is we talk to them about what is the rapid response plan? Um, it applies to if there’s a hurricane that impacts your services or if there’s a political situation that impacts your services or if there’s something in terms of internal politics where there’s something that is going to impact your reputation and you have that that rapid response plan. And it’s a question of, you know, we’ve given whole other talks about this and that it’s a whole other topic of conversation, but it is. It is really important, right? If you have the plan going in that you can deal with whatever the issues are, so you say Okay, who are the decision makers at the organization? What is the chain of command? Who are the people who we need to gather at the organization to figure out whether or not we respond? If we respond, what channels do we respond in what is the messaging of that response, right? And so you know that that really does have to depend on what is the situation. And in some some issues you don’t some problems, whether it’s a mistake internally, a mistaken communication or a one of these kind of rapid response publicity, something some situations will not require a response, and others do. And so it’s a question of what is the message? Is it something where, you know, if you actually do something really offensive, who is the right person to say something? Is it the executive director? Is it the chair of the board? Um, so so is it somebody who is a trusted individual who is the right signer for it? What is the right message? You know, we do. We do often. I will say, use humor when we are crafting an apology. Claire Claire talked about that example of Please forgive us from an animal shelter. You’re not going to do that if it’s something really offensive, you

[00:22:22.60] spk_1:
don’t want to. Yeah,

[00:22:24.30] spk_4:

[00:22:30.54] spk_2:
mean, you never know, but you want to be very human. Talk about it. Ideally, you want to be real explain. Here’s the situation and and have a very real genuine apology. What?

[00:22:56.84] spk_1:
Okay, what if at the outset, you don’t You don’t have enough facts. I mean, can you Can you come out and say we can’t comment right now? You know, we’re still looking into whatever the situation is, and we don’t want to say anything inappropriate. So give us 24 hours or something like that. Well,

[00:23:34.54] spk_3:
and committing to transparency in that process, I think is going to go a long way to saying we’re still figuring this out. We want you to know we’re on it. Were These are the steps we’ve already taken. Here’s a step. There is the next step we’re taking, and we’re going to tell you what’s going on. You know, you’re going to hear about this. Um, and just just to reassure them anytime you’re you’re dealing with somebody you’re dealing with donor group, they’ve given you their money. This is this is an act of trust. You have to you have to work to keep that trust, um, to make sure it’s, you know, earned. So you don’t want to lose that,

[00:23:49.04] spk_2:
and transparency is important. But you’re also then messaging them and saying to them as a donor. You are. You are our partner in executing our mission. You are part of the organization. We owe you an explanation. And we need you to help us get through this. We need you to continue to support, um, you know, shelter, animals, homeless youth, whatever the population is that you are providing services to you, our our partner in supporting this mission. And we need you to stand with us.

[00:24:11.94] spk_4:
Yeah, and the more authentic and personal it is, it’s also it’s more of its transparency. But it’s also assurance that not just like it’s not just we have your best interest isn’t just that hot, but it’s also you’re in the know about what’s happening in the organization. Like Julie said, you’re a partner

[00:25:33.54] spk_1:
building on that trust that Claire was talking about. Yeah. Yeah, right. You have that trust in the bank you don’t wanna you don’t wanna exploit it, uh, and squander it, which, you know, conflicting messaging will do. I think too much delay. Depending on the situation, you know, too much delay. Then the story gets ahead of you, and I’m envisioning something really bad, you know, and then somebody else controls the narrative, and you’ve You’ve lost your opportunity. You know, those those things are bad. And that’s that’s a squandering of good faith, squandering of trust. All right, well, that’s that. That’s the trust to that Claire you talked about when we were talking about the gaffes. You know, people love you so much that they’re going to let you know that you made a mistake. Those are those are the most concerned, Like most invested people, the ones who don’t care, we’re gonna write off like, uh, another. Another problem with these people, you know, something like that. But the ones who really care, we’re gonna say, How could they let this happen? Do they know? You know? So, yeah, they’re invested their invested. All right. Um, what else are we talking about? We got a couple more minutes. We don’t have to wrap up whatever we covered yet.

[00:25:38.94] spk_3:
Well, one of the fun things we talked about not fun at all. It was how to apologize appropriately.

[00:25:45.24] spk_1:
Okay, well, you gave a good example of the animal shelter. Were,

[00:26:02.84] spk_3:
But if it’s offensive, what we’ve all noticed in, you know, in our media consumption in the last couple of years. Is all of these people, uh, providing apologies? You know, apologies.

[00:26:25.34] spk_1:
Backhanded apologies, if backhanded apology. If anyone was offended. Exactly, I didn’t intend it. And I regret that they’re offended. So it’s like it’s like their fault. It’s your fault for being offended, right? I regret that you’re offended, you know? All right, talking about her one. Horrible. Yeah,

[00:26:36.14] spk_3:
it’s horrible. And we actually said, Be sure if someone if someone said something offensive, be sure they say I offended. And I apologize.

[00:26:37.31] spk_1:
We should follow, you know, making human. There’s a human behind this apology. Not it wasn’t written by a

[00:26:43.58] spk_4:
robot. You know, it’s not like a template apology. Yeah, 100. An apology

[00:26:50.44] spk_1:
if anyone was offended. I’m sorry that they are regret that they are people who won’t even say step. Probably won’t even say sorry. I regret that. It’s unfortunate that you are

[00:27:01.19] spk_3:

[00:27:16.04] spk_1:
right. All right. What else you want to, um Let’s see. Anybody who wants to take us out with, uh, parting parting advice for the Let’s stick with the Gaff. I like that. That was the most animated part. The somebody take us out with good gaffe advice.

[00:27:19.24] spk_3:
Well, I’ll tell you one of the things we had fun coming up with Shefali and I, um, included. We gave a little bit of conference swag in some some checklists and things that people

[00:27:31.03] spk_1:
can take.

[00:28:21.14] spk_3:
And we also provided a little freebie five subject lines to try if you made a mistake. So this is how this is how to get somebody to open your email apology. And so we came up with we came up with. Well, this is awkward. Um, let’s see if we can get our apology right. You deserve our best. You didn’t get it. Can you forgive us? Name of donor and then my favorite. I think this is shit follies. Um, the email you were actually supposed to get name. Okay, So just kind of helping people out. We have. We have unfortunate reasons. Were knowing that all of those emails are successful. Um, so a

[00:28:35.84] spk_1:
lot of communications is gonna be a lot of mistakes. I mean, it’s going to happen. It’s humans. You don’t you don’t strive for them. Obviously you strive not to like Julie was saying, but but with QA. But it’s going to happen now. What about this? I don’t like I don’t like teasing nonprofit radio listeners, and then they don’t get anything. What about this checklist you mentioned? So

[00:29:03.24] spk_2:
those five subject lines along with a variety of other things, including some of the most common QA mistakes to watch for, um, at sinking dot com slash ntc 21 you can download a pdf that has whole bunch of good checklist for both avoiding mistakes. And then what to do if you made a mistake.

[00:29:07.44] spk_1:

[00:29:13.54] spk_2:
so that was Thank you. Slash And so sink e ink dot com slash ntc 21.

[00:29:20.54] spk_1:
Got it and sank is s a N k y. Thank you dot com slash ntc 21. All

[00:29:24.33] spk_3:

[00:29:43.34] spk_1:
Thank you. Think as opposed to what I said, which was Thank you. Thank you, Link. All right, Nobody talked. Now nobody talked. Thank e ink dot com slash ntc 21 You betcha. Thank you. All right. I don’t like cold, madam. Non profit your listeners. Alright, Good. So they can get the resource there. We’re gonna leave it there. Julie’s if sent Vice President of Accounts and Strategic Services. Claire Thomas, Copy Director Shefali Rao, senior copywriter all at Sancti Communications. Thank you very much. Wonderful.

[00:30:01.56] spk_3:
Thank you so much Fun.

[00:32:49.14] spk_1:
Real pleasure. I enjoyed it. And thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC 2021 Nonprofit Technology Conference where we are sponsored by We should be sponsored by sank Communication with all these shout outs I’m giving, but we’re not. We’re sponsored by turn to communications sank e ink dot No, not spanking dot com Turn to communication. Turn hyphen two dot c o responsible. I turn to communications Turn hyphen two dot c o thanks to each of you. Thank you very much. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications relationships turn to has the relationships with media outlets, journalists, even bloggers podcasters like me they have the outlets to get you placed When there’s a reason for you to be in the news. There’s some news hook that they can grab and they can talk to the Chronicle of Philanthropy, CBS Market Watch, et cetera. They’ve got the existing relationships and they’ll leverage them to your advantage because you’re their client. You get in the media, turn to communications. Turn hyphen two dot c o It’s time for Tony. Take two. How are you? How are you doing? Have you had a vaccine? How’s your family doing? Your family been vaccinated? I’m interested. I’m interested in how listeners are doing. I sent this out asking folks who get the insider alert our weekly insider alert. And I got a bunch of responses back. People. People told me how they’re doing. Tell me what’s going on, How they’ve been what? What It’s like, uh, planning to go back to work, etcetera. So I turned it to listeners. That’s you. How are you doing? How’s your family? Let me know. You can use my email. Here it is. It’s not gonna be able to use it and give it to you tony at tony-martignetti dot com. Tony at tony-martignetti dot com Let me know how you are That is Tony’s Take two. We’ve got boo koo, but loads more time for nonprofit radio. Here is talking mental health in your workplace. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC, The 2021 nonprofit Technology Conference. We’re sponsored at 21 NTC by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o. My guest now is Dan Burstein. He is founder at M H. Mediate. Dan. Welcome to our coverage of 21 NTC.

[00:32:59.94] spk_0:
Thank you very much for having me.

[00:33:15.94] spk_1:
Pleasure. Absolute pleasure. We’re talking about something that’s important. That’s not talked about enough. Your session is talking mental health in a virtual workplace. There’s there’s stigma around mental health. Is it? Is it Is it worse now in a

[00:35:38.34] spk_0:
virtual world? Um, I would say that, and I’ll just say, I’ll just say that, you know, my background is I’m a mediator and I do work to help people talk about mental health. But I also personally live openly with bipolar disorder. And I would say that stigma is a funny thing, because when we think about stigma, we think about well, do people have a negative attitude towards someone having a mental illness? And as time has gone on the general climate of negative attitudes to someone having a mental illness, I believe is shifted so people are more accepting of the idea that someone might have a mental health problem and we need to work with the fact that everybody in the workplace has mental health needs of some kind and people might need take a personal day or something. The interesting thing is, what kinds of ideas do people have about what do you do when you see that somebody may or may not have a mental health problem? And that’s where so much talk has happened during the pandemic, where, UM, people are saying, Well, what do we do? How do we pay attention to our co workers? How do we notice if there’s a mental health problem and help them? Their statistics out that about half of people have some kind of mental health symptoms now during the pandemic. And so there’s a lot of people have these good intentions that they want to find a way to support someone who has a mental health problem. But the way that they offer that support might actually be stigmatizing. And, um, one way of doing that is if you assume someone needs help. So if someone hears I have bipolar disorder, or even if someone notices, I’m having personal issues at work, if they approach me with the assumption that I need their help, that that’s paternalism and that’s one kind of stigma, another type of stigma and I’ll end it right there is, um, another type of stigma is, if you believe, for instance, Oh, well, Dan has bipolar disorder, but if he goes to the doctor and he takes his medicine, Dan will be fine. Where you that’s That’s an accepting idea. But that’s not how it works for everyone, because I have a choice about how to take care of my mental health. And plenty of people don’t get better even when they take medicine, because they have side effects or treatment resistance. And it’s a difficult journey for them. And so sometimes there’s an oversimplification of we have all the answers for someone’s mental health. Now you just need to come tell HR tell somebody, and we’ll be able to get you the help you need. Use the employee assistance plan. You’ll get your help, and we have it all figured out. And that creates a lot of stigma as well, because it puts that pressure on people to have their mental problems figured out or solved.

[00:35:59.64] spk_1:
Okay, so we want to. We want to be able to say the right things and avoid these Gaffs around dealing with folks who may need help and you said during the pandemic, What’s the statistic? Like as many as 50% of people have have some mental health needs. Intervention needs. Doing what

[00:36:56.43] spk_0:
I would say is 100% of people have mental health needs. So that means, you know, everybody has stressful days. They get to have worried, overwhelming, take care of ourselves like we’re all in a spectrum. In a normal year, one in five people will have a diagnosable mental health problem. So that’s what a normal year looks like. It’s about 20% of people will have a diagnosable problem now with the pandemic, it’s been. About half of people have been reporting mental health symptoms of some kind, and that’s for a number of reasons. That’s partly because of the social isolation, the fear of the illness, getting sick from the pandemic. Um, you know, losing your job. I mean, so many things are happening that are possible stressors that can trigger someone to have a mental health problem. So putting it all together, the data has shown that about half of people are having some kind of mental health symptoms that they’re reporting.

[00:37:09.23] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So yeah, 2.5 times as much as a as a as a normal year.

[00:37:10.53] spk_0:
All right? Exactly. So it’s more relevant now than ever. Accept that we all always have mental health stuff going on in some degrees. So I like to say it’s always relevant all the time for us to do.

[00:38:08.32] spk_1:
Yeah, fair point that. Everybody. You’re right. 100% of people have mental health needs. That could be as easy as I need. I need an hour away. Uh, I need I need quiet. I I gotta be with people. I’m too. I feel like I’m twice later, I got to get outdoors. I mean, those are all us, uh, responding to what we’re feeling in the moment and trying to take care of ourselves. Exactly. You’re right. Of course. 100. You’re right. Not that I thought you would be wrong, but yeah, you give voice to it. 100% of us have mental health needs. Absolutely. All right. Um right. So can we Can we flush these two things out? You know, assuming that people need help or that is assuming that the answers are simple. Is there Is there more like is there. Are there more ways we can help people avoid saying the wrong

[00:41:26.41] spk_0:
thing? Yeah, So what I usually do and what I taught in the workshop at the conference is, um, I try to focus on people remembering that when we’re in the workplace, we have to know what our role is. So are are you this person’s, um, you know, support system. Are you this person mental health treatment professional? Or are you there co worker or boss? If your co worker or boss you should start thinking what’s appropriate for me as a vantage point to engage in the topic of mental health and what what really is appropriate is talking about the behaviors in the workplace and how they affect the workplace. So you may see somebody who let’s say their absence a lot, and that’s not like them. And it’s not really appropriate work, even if it were like them. And so you’re thinking, Gee, from the way they look, they remind me of my friend from college who suffered from depression, and I might go over to them. And I might say, You know, Dan, uh, you’re absent a lot. I’d like to refer you to the employee Assistance Plan, which offers free counseling benefits. Or I’d like to suggest a way to help you with your mental health. I’m concerned that might be an issue that is wrong, because done now is you’ve added the backstory of your idea of what their mental health might be from your personal experiences instead of just focusing on what you’ve seen in the workplace, which is the absence is. So the better conversation is to sit down and say, Um, you know, Dan, I’ve noticed that you’ve been absent and I’d like to talk to you about how that affects the workplace and what we can do to manage that going forward and follow that conversation forward about the behavior. And then there’s ways that you can integrate mental health, you know into that conversation. And the typical way is to say, you know, whenever anybody is absent three times or whenever anybody misses this many deadlines or whenever anybody turns in lower quality work, we always let them know that there’s resources here to help them. And here’s a handout that includes all the resources we have that includes the employee assistance plan, etcetera. But what we’ve done here is we’ve taken the behavior indicator and we said, Okay, my role is really about the behavior I’d like to offer mental health support. You don’t have to. I’d like to offer mental health support. So what I do is I find a way to do it without singling anybody out. And I regularly promote these resources, um, and link it to clear behavior based criteria when I do it, as opposed to my hunch that I’ve seen something and I’m guessing, if you may are made out of a mental hunch about you, right, So that’s 11 way to look at it and that covers most situations. The the other thing that happens, Um, so that covers if you if you if you see you know performance problems at work or if you see inappropriate conduct, you can do the approach, I just said, But the other thing that can happen is someone can come and disclose to you, and they can disclose to you either just in passing like I did on this program and say, I have bipolar disorder and that’s it. Or they can disclose to you by saying, you know, I have bipolar disorder, I have depression and I’d like to change something here in the workplace. And at that point, most workplaces of a certain size have a responsibility legally to consider what’s called a reasonable accommodation for disability. And so there is a process for talking about that, and the American

[00:41:29.53] spk_1:
is that’s under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

[00:42:56.00] spk_0:
Yes, this is under the Americans with Disabilities Act, reasonable accommodation. Most Most organizations do not talk about this very well in the sense that they have a policy. If somebody asked for a reasonable accommodation, but they don’t educate the managers and the staff of when someone says something that could be a request for an accommodation. Um and so the example that I give is You know, a lot of people hear me say, I have bipolar disorder and they go, Whoa, that’s serious. Do you need help, Dan, Um, you know, But if I said, Oh, I’m feeling depressed right now and I need some time off I might not realize that that person is suffering from major depression and they’re actually asking for a disability accommodation. So it’s very dangerous to use your own judgment of whether or not a situation is serious enough to refer to H R or to refer to the disability accommodation on policy. And so what you really need to do is, um, when someone shares anything that includes two elements, which is possible health condition and that requests for a change in the workplace you should have, you should offer to process it like a disability accommodation. Um, and you should not, as a manager, informally offer the health, because even though you think you’re doing that person a favor, you’re making that person feel insecure that there’s not a real system to take care of them and instead that they’re relying on the goodwill of their manager. And that’s not a comfortable thing. In addition to the fact that if you’re letting the manager do these ad hoc favors, um, you’re opening up the possibility that there might be discrimination where whoever the manager notices, some people get, some people don’t etcetera, and and that becomes a problem. So that’s basically the whole gamut of interactions. You can have that work related mental health.

[00:43:21.80] spk_1:
So what is so what is the best way? By the way, I don’t know if you can hear There’s vacuuming because I have a contractor preparing my stairs, and

[00:43:22.84] spk_0:
I can’t hear the vacuuming, but I I feel for you.

[00:43:44.10] spk_1:
Okay. Thank you. I was feeling for you because I thought it might be distracting. Uh, well, if you hear vacuuming or pounding, it’s on my end. Okay? There’s no one trying to break into your home. What? So what is the appropriate thing to say? Then tell us, You know, like, if you can script it, what should What should the supervisors say when the person presents with these two? You know, these

[00:46:51.98] spk_0:
two criteria? I think they should just ask, you know. Oh, I I hear you’re saying that, um I hear you saying this and that. Would you? You know, would you like us to, um, Steve, there’s a way to adjust the workplace as part of an accommodation. This is what we say to anybody who presents with a possible health issue and, um, request for help. And most people will say No, I don’t I don’t want to do it as an accommodation. Um, and I’m saying this also with the caveat that you should go to your own HR department and find out how they want you to do this, but because they have their own practices and they have their own attorneys that have decided how to do it at your organization. But the key thing is, a lot of people at the organization don’t understand that regularly. People are saying things that could be a request for accommodation. And the fact that you would take it more seriously if I say I have bipolar disorder than depression is on its face. Discriminatory because you know you don’t realize it because you’re just thinking you’re being nice. You’re being supportive. Um, you know, But, um, but it’s just it’s just it’s better to have a uniform approach where anytime anybody shares any kind of health need while asking for for some kind of change at work, you refer someone, and if somebody just shares it like I said, I have bipolar disorder. Um, don’t assume they need help. So that’s the other piece. You need both elements before you offer the accommodation for all. Otherwise, there’s some lessons about generally how to talk about mental health. Um, and people can get resources that I promoted on the conference. I guess we could add a link to go with this podcast. But I could say that you are l, um, Dispute resolution and Mental Health Initiative is where you can get the free resources. So it’s D r M h initiative dot org. There’s a lot of resources there to help you figure out ways to talk about mental health and empowering ways. Um, one example is person first language. So you wouldn’t say Dan is bipolar because that’s defining me by my condition. You would say Dan has bipolar disorder, or Dan, um, you know, has a diagnosis of bipolar, you know, or whatever it may be, Um, the other thing is, you should really never make any assumptions. So when someone says something to you, the easiest thing to say is, Oh, what What do you want me to know from that? What do you want me to know from that? Instead of jumping in and saying, Oh, I have a friend who also has, um, you know, depression, right? Or I’m depression myself. I’m anxiety. You know, someone says to you, Hey, I’m mentioning, um that I have, uh, I’ll use me again as an example. Bipolar disorder, you can say. Oh, Dan, I hear you. You know what? What do you want me to know from that? And I said, Oh, you know what? I’m fine. I don’t need anything. I’m just open with everyone so that, you know, I just was saying it because it’s just what I do to feel more comfortable or it’s just part of what I do for my work. Um, but but But most people, when they hear something like that, they go into their hole on their whole inner wheel in their head. Um oh, what do I do to help this person?

[00:46:53.73] spk_1:
What I read about that. Yeah, I

[00:47:03.18] spk_0:
read about that. And it’s the actual advice to take care of. This is it’s actually quite simple. Don’t listen to yourself. Listen to the person who’s talking and make sure you hear what their ideas are and what their desires are. Um, to guide the conversations and there’s a lot more to it than that. You can get those resources again at D. R. M. H initiative dot org.

[00:47:19.48] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, since we’re talking so much about bipolar, why don’t you acquaint folks with what it means to have a diagnosis of bipolar.

[00:49:52.37] spk_0:
Sure, well, but well, every mental health diagnosis because of the nature of what a mental health problem is, where it affects your thoughts and feelings and behaviors is unique to each individual. So I don’t want anyone to generalize from my story to other people. But I have bipolar disorder. It’s a mood disorder, which means I have trouble regulating my moods to some degree. And because it’s bipolar, there’s two different types of ends of the spectrum. On the one hand, there’s the low mood, which is depression. Um, what differentiates me from someone who has a diagnosis of depression is there’s also periods of high moods, which can be mania or hypomania. Traditionally, people think of that as you get very euphoric. Um, but you can also, which means very happy. But you can also have a very upsetting or dysphoric mania. And there’s a lot. There’s a lot of complexity, so I don’t want people to walk away thinking they know what it means that someone has bipolar for me. I was 19, um, in college, and I didn’t sleep for four straight days until I was then hospitalized and they checked my brain and, um, saw that I didn’t have drugs in my system. I didn’t have a brain abnormality physically on the scan and diagnosed me with bipolar disorder. Because if you have one of these big up episodes where you don’t sleep and you talk faster than I’m talking right now and you engage in erratic behaviors, um, that is definitive for a diagnosis of bipolar. Basically. So, um, if you just have depression, you don’t know if someone’s going to have depression or not, because you need to see that up episode to know that somebody has bipolar disorder. So for me, I was 19. I had that episode in college. I missed a semester of school, you know, got hospitalized and I’ll stop the story there. But it’s obviously a long story of life with a mental illness. Um, and it’s complicated, and it’s just one of many people’s different stories. Some people go to the hospital. Some people don’t. Some people take medications some people don’t, and that’s why what’s important is to let people tell their story and tell you what they want you to know. Instead of asking your own questions and pro and probing. Um, what? Your question was totally appropriate, Um, for this podcast. But in general, if you’re at work, you know, you keep your head down, and when someone brings it up to you, you listen to them and you ask them what they want to talk about. And you follow some of the other skills that you can learn to be empowering and talking about mental health.

[00:49:54.57] spk_1:
So a better way to ask. What would you like me to know

[00:49:57.77] spk_0:
about? What Would you like me to know and or just Yeah, or just I mean, you can say diagnosed. You can say anything, but yeah. I mean,

[00:50:05.84] spk_1:
what would you like me to know

[00:51:19.56] spk_0:
about what you’re saying, what you know or what are you? What are you trying to convey to me? You know, the idea is less about specifically what you say and more about showing the person a few things. So number one is I’m listening to you. I want to hear your ideas and your story. You’re you’re empowered in this conversation. So that’s one thing you’re trying to do. The other thing that I mentioned earlier, it’s really important is I’m not judging you and singling you out to treat you differently than other people. So those are the themes that you want to show with. Everything you’re trying to do is to say we we we check in on everybody who is absent, we check in and everybody who misses deadlines, you know, we have the same conversation. It’s better to give a written handout because with the written handout, um, people can see Oh, yeah, You didn’t just make this up just because you’re freaked out by me. You you give this out to everybody. So those are the key principles that are the most important. And if you say the wrong thing along the way, um, you know that’s not always pleasant for someone. But if they can see that you’re really trying to be fair and treat them like somebody else and if they can see that you’re really trying to listen to them, then you’re going to have a good outcome. And and that’s not just when there’s a mental health problem involved, that’s actually all communication. Um, you know, in all interactions, it’s good to do those

[00:51:22.44] spk_1:
things listening,

[00:51:23.50] spk_0:
listening, listening

[00:51:24.73] spk_1:
just as I just cut you off as you’re talking. But I’m saying, but I’m emphasizing, Yeah, listening appropriately. Careful

[00:52:24.25] spk_0:
listening. Um, and what happens with mental health is a lot of times people see mental health niche and they start panicking about what do I do? What do I do? And it’s like, actually, you should really just focus on treating everyone great all the time, and then you won’t have any problems. And and And that’s where I come in as a trainer or, um, you know, to help different organizations is, you know, basically what happens is they have They have some missteps and how they’re dealing with mental health. And so we address those. But it’s actually addressing the culture for everyone because as we started, um, this podcast 100% of people are having mental health needs 100% people, um, you know, might need to communicate about feeling sad or worried or overwhelmed or having a rough day and and and these skills will benefit in all those situations. Um, you know, as long as you get to that mindset of the empowerment and treating everybody the same, all

[00:52:50.55] spk_1:
right, that’s excellent. And I’d like to leave it there if you make you make your points very, very clear. Very succinct. I do want to leave folks with DRM H initiative dot org for Dispute resolution and Mental Health Initiative. DRM h initiative dot org For all the valuable resources you were talking about, Dan Dan Burstein, founder M. H. Mediate Dan, Thank you very much.

[00:52:51.89] spk_0:
Thank you for having me.

[00:53:56.85] spk_1:
Awesome. Valuable Thank you and thank you for being with tony-martignetti. Non profit radio coverage of 21 NTC were sponsored at the conference by turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o Next week. More 21 NTC panels If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty, be with me next week for nonprofit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for January 25, 2019: Courageous Communication

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti Non-profit Radio Big Non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. My friend the Scarecrow just got a promotion. She’s outstanding in her field. I just heard that today I got I stole that from a bank. A za bank joke. Um, I’m glad you’re with me because I’d be thrown into trauma nap. Tia, if I had to breathe while you told me you missed today’s show Courageous communication Mary and er sh says you’re non-profit maybe co dependent and it’s stifling your communications. Are you afraid to stand out? Do you prefer middle of the road content to driving on the sidewalk? Occasionally she may be right. She’s the author of the book Courageous Communication on Tony’s Take two Insider yet responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com Bye. Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four, four nine nine nine What a pleasure to welcome Mary Anderson to the studio from St Louis. XI is founder of Courageous Communication. She works with Non-profits to move from operating out of fear and scarcity to confidence and abundance. So they attract like minded donors and raise more money. She’s author of the book Courageous Communication. How Co dependence Is Making your Non-profit brand Boring and what to do about it. Marianne has a shoe fetish, a diet Coke fetish. And she sings karaoke E, which I call Carrie. Hokey. Ah, you’ll find her, her company, her book and her fetishes at marianne. Derschau dot com. And she’s at Marianne Derschau. Welcome to the studio. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. We’re gonna talk about coke and shoes and all kinds of thank you for coming in from St Louis. Thank you. I’m glad I made it. Yes. Your seven hours delayed yesterday. Yes. You got a lot of purple going on? Yes. Kruckel, hair, lips, nails. Yes. Okay. I just I just goingto embody my brand. That’s right. Live the brand for sure. Yes. You’ve got to be courageous. So Okay, um, co dependence you feel that organizations, maybe a little co dependent and you wanted to move away from that, Teo Courage. Yes. And I actually the thought of this concept in the therapist office when we were talking about co dependence, which the simple definition is when you subvert your needs for the needs of others. Right. So you’re not doing what’s right for you because you’re too busy doing what’s right for others. And so it’s that weight that we can’t be kind giving people. It’s just when that when we are subverting our needs, which builds resentment right in our personal lives. So I was looking at that as an organizational issue. I’m thinking, Wow, a lot of my clients are subverting their needs for the needs of their donors, right? So they are not doing and saying what would be right? Because they’re afraid of someone might what someone might think, right. So it’s all way they’re focusing on the loss, not the wind. So that’s when you talked about moving from fear and scarcity. So that is a lot of that Ideas like, if we say or do something wrong, something bad is gonna happen. We have to like Speaker act a certain way because we want to appeal to, you know, this group of people and that’s usually around around money. Okay. Okay. All right. And, uh, your therapist? No background? No, no. I was in therapy. I have a team of mental health professionals. You guide me through my, my, my actual therapist, actually just told me I should cut back to wait. Go back to five days a week now. So? So I’m getting I’m not After eighteen years, right? Things were getting better. Yeah. Um, All right, So what is this courageous communication? You know, of course we have the hour, right? So don’t go into Don’t go in there. Right detail, But just give us overviewing. What is this Courageous communication? So courageous communication is about not worrying about the people who don’t like you, but focusing on the like minded folks who share your heart in your mission and attracting them to you. So that is the simplest explanation. Don’t worry about the critics. Focus on the folks who have an affinity for what you d’oh. Okay, okay. You also encourage needing less praise. Please don’t be so needy. So the idea is level the purple in-kind together talking her hands are flailing hyre lips, and that’s amazing Hope. The Olan song. Yes, so right, so praise and criticism. So so again. One day I’m in my therapist’s office and and I was talking about how someone had criticized made a criticism and because I’m oh mirriam, you’re always in the spotlight or something and and then where other people would praise me for that same like skill are, you know and tendency. And she said, Well, Mary, and that’s just other people’s opinions of you and and it shouldn’t and they’re both the same thing. Praise and criticism are the same. They’re just other people’s opinions of you. And I’m like, Okay, well, that’s ridiculous, because Treyz feels really good and criticism feels really bad. And she said, A whole person really can manage praising criticism, right? So you don’t need praise to feel good, and criticism doesn’t derail you. Although one feels good and one hurts, you’re still going to be a whole person, like moving your way like through your life. And at that moment, I thought, Oh, my gosh, my clients are overly dependent on praise and terrified of criticism. And even if you meet people like that in person who are, like, very needy for praise their kind of exhaust sing right, and then it forms this sense of inauthenticity. So relationships reform with people and organizations are made of people, and we want to have an authentic relationship. And so when we’re when we need a lot of praise and are terrified of criticism, of course we send these messages that seem inauthentic, right and were afraid to like Show the true, the true truth of like who we are and what our organization is. And and so we think that that that’s super shiny, perfect image is what attracts people. But that doesn’t attract people. What attracts people is the real n’est, like they want to know who you really are and how they can help you with your struggles and the wins and the losses. And and all of that, just like we want to know from each other, you say You say have a point of view, right? And don’t be ashamed of that, right? Right. And people who have a similar point of view will be attracted to you. Yes, and those who do not will criticize or depart. And that’s not bad. Yes, because you want more of the people who share your point of view and fewer of the people who don’t exactly like the like the You don’t call yourself this, but like I’m doing it for you, you know non-profit therapist? Yes. Right. Yes. You’re you’re You’re encouraging this cognitive behavioral dahna scheme for non-profits right to use an organizational level. Okay, um, be strong. You say, You know, this is another thing. You saying the book be strong, be strong in your message and easy to find, right? So because the ideas create a brand of attraction to attract like minded people. And so if those people see that you’re standing up for the causes and the issues that they have an affinity for, that’s going to attract them to you. And then when you’re easy to find that helps you attract, attract those people. So if I have, you know, a desire to help a certain calls or issue and I’m looking for that, I can find someone who does that and then build build a relationship with that organization. Okay, we’re gonna take our first break, okay? And I want to say that when we come back, We’ll talk about how this is all very personal to you and not only the therapy, but you got some other things going on that that are interesting and and a little provocative. I will bear myself. Yeah, you in the book. So you read the book for detail, or you can hang out here and get get the Cliff notes version. Well, not really Cliff notes. I mean, we’re on for an hour. That’s not right. Get the get the audio version. That’s what I mean to say that this is the audio version of her book pursuing. They have a new free E book, which is the art of First Impressions. You need more donors. The Art of First Impressions. The book is about donor. It has the six guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy. It has how to identify your unique value and use it to attract people like Mary and I were talking about plus creative tips. You’ll get it at tony dot m a slash pursuant capital p for Please remember that. All right, let’s go back to creative communications. So you’re relaxed. You’re a burlesque dancer. You were You’re unashamed unashamed about the shoes, the platform shoes. That you? Yes. So you are. You know, you make those other things, You’re out there and you’re attracting people. How are similarly minded? Yes. And you’re not upset when people are, I guess put off. I don’t know if people are put off. Everybody in the world I don’t know. I guess I just don’t get carried away. All right, But you’re you’re out there for your own, for you’re in your own brand. You’re practicing. What, you Yes, yes. And my company to it is built on the same principles of a brand of attraction, right? And really connecting with with like minded organisations. And so it’s It’s less about worrying about trying to convince people you know it. It’s hard to change what’s in people’s hearts, right? We all we all have our philanthropic heart. We all have what’s in our hearts. So what’s in my heart and who I am? And so it’s hard to convince people of the worth of your organization. It’s hard to convince people that I look for like minded people, right? And your work. You probably do, too, and I publish a podcast. Right producer podcast and people who enjoy it will come to it. Yes. And so it’s this idea of of working less to convince people of your worth and that just attracting the like minded people. Teo, tell me about the burlesque. Well, that’s so I mean, I mean, what I call a midlife adventure, so I know why. Wouldn’t know. There’s nothing to be going crazy. Whoever heard of a good life eventually? Well, that’s what I call it on. DA. You know, I’m fifty three. It just turned fifty three, so And I just decided that you know her, so out about their age, you know? I love that. Well, why Why would I? Because I don’t know why, but lots of women are coy about Yeah. So fifty three three very. And that’s when you’re supposed to say, Oh, my God, you look great in here. You look amazing. That’s what you’re supposed to say, right? OK, thanks. So I just decided that I was feeling really confident. Like, I think women in their fifties. It’s a really great time. And you you feel like, really confident. Like I don’t care what anybody thinks. I’m doing what I want. It’s Sometimes I call it like your second act like after the kids are a little older and whatever you can go do. And I just decided, you know, this idea of feeling really confident about your body and and your sexuality and who you are. And in burlesque, the beautiful thing about it is the key. Everybody is welcome and everybody is beautiful, right? So big bodies, little bodies. We celebrate our curves and giggles. There’s trans bodies, you know, there’s one of the guys in my class is Ah ah did burlesque in drag. So, like any, you know any who any person you are is worthy of celebration. And so in a lot of times women, we get the message to, like, you know, like, whatever you are is not good enough, right? You have to like, Thanks. Put yourself in here and wrap yourself up. You know what I mean? There’s something about you that is unappealing. So in burlesque, it’s sort of like this idea of owning yourself. But also I did it for sort of command of myself and the stage. So as a speaker and trainer, you know, having command of your of your brain and your body, like in front of people, right? So learning I chose improv in stand up comedy, it But it’s a lot of the same skills, right? And understanding, like being in the moment, like being really in the moment and really selling something right. And so and it’s this idea of even though I was, like, terrified in my head, you know, I went out and what you just let go and just have fun and that that feeling of that intersection of fear and exhilaration that that’s that’s something that is that it is such a great feeling and and you know that, right? This stand up on the stage doing stand up there. The applause is over. It’s your audience. Are you going to make them laugh, right? Or are you Are you going to be embarrassed? Exactly. You got eight minutes go and and you just dive in. And And it is really about just being so present in that moment. And so that was the fun for me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for sure. Fifty three millions fifty three. How bad you’re about? Uh, okay, so, uh, s so let’s talk about some communications? Uh, more brand promises you want. You want tohave? You want us to have a Is it just one? We have a brand in order to have a brand promise or one brand problem. Grimm Press What’s a brand program promises the highest level of thinking that the highest level of experience. So ah, brand promises something A promise that you make to everyone your organization interacts with on And it’s not always stated, but it’s felt so. I used the example of, like, a target because everyone’s been to target. Right? And you know what? It feels like it and they you know, they’re brown brand promise, even though they don’t say it is like, you’re going to have a good experience here. You know, like for some women like targets or recreational activity, Right? We, like, walk around with our carts, bring kids. Yeah, Yeah, you push the kids around. When my my oldest child, when we adopted my oldest child, like and I was a nervous mom to a three year old, you know, I would just go through target because I like target, you know? So ah, and s o. So it’s this idea of that promise that we make Teo to everyone we interact with. And then once we figure what out what that is, then we can then that can distill into all our messaging and our talking points and how our organization looks and feels well or it’s a grand process could see. I was going to say, How is that different than a vision? But but vision is what you’re trying to achieve. Yes. Yes. This is your brain is about This is about what you’re going to get when you interact with us. So so I’ll give you an example. So there is a national organization called Oasis that works with older adults. And they do recreation activities, volunteer educational. So as people are, you know, nearing retirement, you know, finding the free time in their life. Okay, Now I’m going to really pursue my own interests or do what I want. You know, you would turn to Oasis for for further education, for volunteer opportunities of exercise. Right? And so when we looked at them and we said what? What are we really promising people? And it was this idea of ah young at heart. Right? So being young and violent and feeling like life is full of promises, like no matter what age you are. And so when we created that young at heart brand promise U S. O, then it’s like, Okay, now we’re going to look at okay. They remain message, which then became Oasis. Lifelong adventure. There’s no one. So here’s the thing no one wants to help label. Nobody likes labels like Millennials Don’t want to be called Millennials, right? Seniors don’t want to be called scene like people don’t like labels, right? And so we couldn’t say for seniors or, you know, so it was this idea of implying lifelong, which is throughout life and adventure. But the brand promise was really this idea of staying vital. And so when you looked at the color, the photography, you know how how the organization looked and felt how people interacted with that organization in person and in print online did that? Did that make that? Did that? Keep that promise right? So once you have that, that’s sort of this feeling that just works its way through everything you dio. And sometimes it’s like so known. It’s just it’s a thing that people don’t really talk about it Just obvious and evident. And some. But it’s always good to define what it is. Because then you could really look and say, Are we communicating? That, you know, is are we keeping that promise with every with every interaction that we that we have? That was life, life, long adventure? Yeah. This is Oasis that well, they’re brand promise. Was was this ideas being young at heart? Which lettuce to the tagline like lifelong adventure. Like your midlife adventure? Exactly. Like you recommend adventures to clients to have no life, e Yes. So Okay, I hadn’t drawn that parallel till you just said that. Yes. Oh, well, this is why some property for thirteen thousand? Yes, it’s unlike you could be a part of my mental health team. Time organic xero fee. I can’t afford me. I know I can’t afford my therapy five days a week now, but so hyre. Okay, I don’t know where I’m going with that, but so are so You have the brand promise, and then you have belief statements. Okay. Yes. They seem to Segway from Okay. So yeah, so from the brand promise. So this came about because a lot of heat would say to me. So I I want to appeal to this group. So butt And yet I what appealing to this group may mean like hurting the feelings of this group. And and we’re not sure what to say, you know, and how to keep all these, you know, different groups, you know, from not offending anyone. And so I was at a workshop, and this woman said to me, You know, I work with women’s health and some of the women in the group are that that that this organization serves are pro life, and some of them are pro choice, and there’s always, ah, you know, and and I’m all work. It’s this constant battle. Okay, so so in their head, there’s a battle, right? So it’s like, so these beliefs statements then allow us to say, Here’s what our organization believes. Here’s what we stand for and these are five to seven principles that we just don’t move off of, right. And so one of those beliefs statements could be we we work to include all you know, points of view around, you know, this issue, I said, you just state that you’re trying to do that, right? So that’s a belief that you have a belief that she had was We’re doing our best to accommodate the most diverse, you know, points of view possible around this issue. But isn’t that contrary? Teo. Courageous communication. What we said earlier about not being fearful of offending some people. So so you’re not. It’s not that you’re offending. You’re trying to make space for both these groups that were a part of this this organization. So it’s it’s this idea of, like, Yeah, and we might We might we might We might fall down on that everyone so out. But we’re doing our best to accommodate everyone. So this is not an organization that has to take a stand on on abortion, right? Whether with the organization, right? Right, right. This is organization that was working in maternal health. White like maternal health. So it’s like, So there’s route that and saying, There’s room for and we’re doing our best. So one of the organizations I worked with in St Louis is called Episcopal City Mission, and they serve kids in juvenile court custody. And so the idea of why your kids in court custody. What have they done? What? How? And then they’ve minister to them, it’s called a minute. They call it a ministry of presents. So they minister to the kids, their mentors and ministers to them. And so this idea of creating these beliefs, statements for them allowed them to say, Here’s what we believe about the children that we serve and about And it also allowed them to talk about their religious, the religious foundation around that. Because then these air this is what we believe we believe that no child is should be defined by the worst thing they’ve ever done, you know. And so when you hear things like that, like, okay, and no one argues, no one can argue with what you believe. This is just what we believe. And if it’s not for you, that’s OK. So And it’s It’s a very freeing way because this is what we believe in. And if something it like if something comes to in conflict with that, then you know well, that that’s that’s that’s This is something we just don’t move off. Yeah. How do you develop belief? That? What are you telling you? Talk with your hands. I I’m pulawski demolition. We say we can’t You can’t talk with your hands strapped down. Yeah, yeah, that’s what I like to have zoo meetings when I explain concepts. A lot of times I used my hands, you know, to describe things, so okay. All right. So my developing within your organization, how do you develop? So most of them are known, but not said so get them in writing, right? Exactly. Yeo. Yeah. Yeah. So more. Yes. So So it just really depends on the organization s o. We asked people. So when we asked people, like, what do you believe? You know what? What? What? What? What? People on the organisms staff and bored. And then from there, we distilled it down. So we got a lot of input and then distilled it down into, like, five or seven things. So But when I’m working with an organization, I’m hearing them as I go. So I’m sort of like already taking a mental inventory, you know, and and and and and listening to what they are because a lot of times they’re just they’re just known and they’re not written. And this one of my clients that it’s called there. They call it the values, their value statement. It’s police stated value statement. I mean, you can call it different words is still the same thing. Here’s the unassailable things that we believe in. Right. And then there were working on putting them, like in the in a very prominent, Like when you walk in, like, here’s what we believe, which I think is wonderful, right? Because it just grounds everybody into that. Okay, Okay, way. Don’t stray from these, so if we’re going to embark on courageous communication. Courageous. Well, courageously. Yes. We’re going to change some culture. Some thinking within the organization, right? Because most organizations are middle of the road. You know, there’s safer. We’re not goingto for the reasons that we talked about, you know, they don’t want to. Ah, I don’t want to be provocative in their communication. Yes, maybe not. Take a stand or take a week or stand. So how are we going to get changed? You have some ideas in the book about changing culture. Tto make this shift correct. So non-profit culture is fundamentally risk averse. I think the board structure is the board structure. Like they’re in their mission to be like, Let’s not ruin this, right. No problem. I’ve been on the boards before. It’s like, Please don’t let let this organization die under my watch. Right? Right, right. All right. Like that was shot that Do you know those hos do no harm? Right? So So the idea is to switch from this idea of fear and scarcity. So I’m constantly scanning and thinking about what could go wrong to thinking about what could go. Right. So an idea of living in confidence in abundance and so how that happens is really from I work with organizations on on all levels, so I can’t just create cultural change through one person. So what I was doing before was like I could teach you how to write better Web content, or I can teach you howto have a more engaging brand. But if you don’t have the culture that supports that, that’s not that’s not gonna work. So typically it’s working with, you know, board and executive director at that level to embrace this idea of that, you’re going to go a lot farther. Ah, latto faster and achieved more success when we adopt the principles of of abundance, right and so and it’s and that’s calling Teo to the front. So here’s like, Here’s when we did take a risk and it paid off, right? So so because I think organizations, they’re doing this already there, just not giving themselves credit for it. So a lot of times it’s just like helping them understand. You’re kind of already doing this. We’re just going to do this in a way that’s really deliver it and the idea of and showing them the numbers of of, you know, how it. It takes a lot of time and a lot of money, Teo, to convince people of something rather than create, like fighting those likeminded people and attracted them to you. And it’s about relieving yourself of not at casting that really wide net of having to appeal to everyone. You know, Because what if What if we miss this dollar? What if we miss this? Don’t you know what? But I know I understand that. Yeah, but I want to get to that house too. Okay, So one of the things our first remind listeners we had a show called buy-in bitches. There were two women. Yeah, we’re who talked about who talked about getting buy-in that there was around it and technology project, But But you could listen back to that show because they had a lot of good ideas that are that go beyond just tech projects. Cool. Forgetting buy-in from from your boss from your CEO. Buy-in bitches. Okay, I’m sure if you go to twenty martignetti dot com and you start the word bitches, that’s that show, that’s so we’ll make itself apparent like those ladies. Alright, i e I love them too. We did that on the show just is organic. We You know, we don’t come up with the name we need to come up with a name of one of them Said we could be buy-in. I said we needed a liberation, was close and she I think and then I said, which is really did that just thinks. Oh, really? Oh, well, I forget whether she said it hesitantly. Or I said it boldly. I don’t know. But yes, love, Anna, But you also you mentioned you touched on something You say the book share the successes, share small successes when when you’re when you’re new form your new brand of communication does well get get Retweeted or yeah. Get special attention on Instagram or something. Great. Share it, share it and and share it with especially the board. Like, show them how this is work and give them the data to support this because they had their typically data driven Okay. Okay. So I want getting this getting this buy-in You’re also encouraging us to understand what the board’s motivations are correct. We’ll say little about. So you’re you know, you’re like I said the boards. Motivation is typically tio not mess up, but they also really they I mean, the board members really care deeply about what’s happening. And so when you can understand, like what they want to contribute what they’re what’s, then they’re what’s in their specific like, ah, mind how and and then pull that out of them. Then once they can increase their buy-in increase there, um, they’re emotional impact into the organization. Then we can. Then we can really work with them on taking those risks and coming with us. You know, for me, I’m, you know, I’m come from a communications background. I was on a board, and it was a lot of lawyers and accountants, and I was wondering, like, you know, how do I fit in here? You know, what is my gifts? And the organization is foster, adoptive cure coalition, that they’re my client now. I said, musicians what Foster and Adoptive Care Coalition. And I stepped down so that they could be my client. One of the things that we did is like these monthly our yearly meetings where we met one on one, the staff and board to talk about what our goals were, and then how they could contribute to those, And I think that’s really helpful. Another thing you suggest is be patient. Take small steps. Yeah. You know, you had over, like, a minute or so. Yeah. No, I mean, I think you just said it just you’re transforming a culture takes time, and it takes till it takes deliberate action every day. And so that’s why those successes, they’re so important, so people can start to see the transformation. And that’s a Olds. It’s been a month. And then, you know, let’s let’s move off this. This takes some time to really become part of your culture and just how people act and and think every day. Okay, we’re gonna take that break. Wittner, CPS. They’re kicking off a remote non-profit roundtable. Siri’s Each quarter, a Wagner’s sepia sepia will cover a topic that they know intimately detailed. And you need a basic understanding. That’s all you’re going to get in an hour. This is not a sepia, you know. Cielito SEPA credit course. You need a basic understanding of it. Their latest is revenue recognition for grants and contracts. You watch the archive video at wagner cpas dot com. Quick resource is than Webinars. Now, time for Tony’s. Take two. Are you insider yet? I’m pushing this because what do you get as an insider? Exclusive content. So today, with Maryann, we’re goingto produce her shoes, her platform boots that she’s about. You’ll see the purple thes. So there was shooting extra content videos short, like five minutes videos with each guest. And insiders get that on a private playlist. Now, some podcasters might charge you for that. You got five bucks a month or something? Whatever. Maybe seven. Eight bucks a month? Something? No, not non-profit radio? No, no charge. I just want you to be an insider. So you go to tony martignetti dot com and you click the insider alerts button that’s it. Prominent and you’ll be an inside its name and email, That’s it. It’s all I ask. You’ll be an insider, and then you’ll get the access to these exclusive videos that I’m doing with guests and, uh, including your going to see Mary Ann’s boots. All right, uh, let’s go back to Mary Anders and courageous communication, All right? Okay. All right. Yes, of course. My favorite thing. Tents. Are you okay? Stand up straight. Okay, okay. All right, so that the cops way talked about the culture, change, all change. Listening. Listening? Uh, you like, uh, discovery sessions and focus groups. So what’s the part first before we get to discovery sessions of folks, why do we have is listening How does a listening exercise fit into courageous communication? Okay, so when we, when we listen, Teo, so courageous communication is not too saying or doing whatever you want, right for the purpose of doing it. So when we listen, This is when we find consensus points in thinking that help is building develop our messaging and our brand so that everyone who’s part of it feels excited to share it. And s O You know, when I just want to make that clear, is when we talk about being a courageous communicator, that that that means that you’re speaking your organization’s authentic truth, right? And how we get to that is by listening. So, you know, what do we value as an organization? And then how can we present that in a way that feels authentic? Tow us and that but then is also exciting and engaging for those like minded people that we want to attract. And that’s where the discovery sessions and the focus groups come in. SoHo are we listening to? So for so So I I’ve used this cool tool call Discovery sessions for many, many years and S O. N. And it’s different. So typically a focus group, you would say, Here’s a couple of ideas we’re thinking about Can you give us some feedback around these specific ideas, right? A discovery session is more of an open ended conversation where you’re asking people how they think and feel about an organization. What attracted? Who are you asking? Well, I’m going to get to that. What’s so so about Non-profit? I would never platform boots and altum. Yes, so So So what we would do is create way create a cross section of people so bored staff, volunteers, clients creating a cross section in the room. Now, sometimes I would do it where, um, an organization would want different discovery sessions based on audience. And then it was up tio us to kind of synthesized the information, but most the times like that was a longer process and, um, or involved in an expensive process. And they wanted so we would take maybe twelve to fifteen people, put him in a room, board staff Like I said, you, Khun Dio, volunteers, clients, those people that are really close to your organization, they don’t even have to know a lot about it. Just have an affinity for it. And so sometimes people come in the room and they would say, Well, I just joined the board. I don’t know very much. It’s not about what you know. It’s like, What’s what? You’ve what you feel, What you feel right? Right? Yeah, right. You come. Why’d you join? So we and in the book I really lay this out step by step on how to do this, But we’re going to ask questions like, so, you know, tell me how to get the book. Just get the book right. What? Three words come to mind. You know, when you think about us. Like, what do you think that we do? That’s different or better? Because that’s what we’re looking for. Like our positioning. Right? And you know what attracted you? What? What would you tell people, Teo? You know who you think might be attracted to you? Would you tell people about right? So so that’s for two reasons. Because we’re planting something in their mind. That, you know, Hey, you should tell people about this. And if you did, what what would What would you say and what we’re looking for us. I said our consensus points and thinking. So when we do these, I have people write first and then speak and they write first. So that, like, if you and I were at opposite ends of the room and I heard, you know, everyone had the same thing to say by the time we got down Teo, you strain your Yeah, right, everybody. So I’m just going to not say that, because then I don’t think so. So we look at consensus points and running first, and then you got to read what you wrote. Exactly. And it’s a very strength space conversation. So a strength space, right? So you’re looking for what? What assets you have that you can present, And then how can you use those assets to connect with like minded people? So I just did this recently for a group that was starting their first sort of, like, big plan giving effort. And so we had a Yeah, right. Your your your wheelhouse. Yeah, And so it was the idea of, you know, These were people who had been long time donors and volunteers. So they were really the top prospects for this. But in But before we wantedto ask them formally, we’re asking them. Hey, how did you become involved? Like, what is your affinity? You know, what do you want your legacy to be, you know. And so most philanthropy is born of pain, right? Like so, There is a pain that I had in my life that I want to prevent other other people from happening. Right. So, right. So the pain of you know, you know, my parents, you know, we’re unemployed for a long stretch of time and write something like that. Right? And so when you asking people what you want their legacy to be, you know what? What? What? What? What changed? You want to see in the world, you know? Then you could really understand, like what their goals are. And so when we you know, when we did this, we got when we did these discovery sessions. We got so much information and not just around the plan giving, but just around who they were as people and and what and what their goals were in life. And how How can I How could an organization support that person? In many ways? Right, So so. And it’s It’s always we always get great stuff out of them, and people leave. People leave feeling really good. Like, Wow, that was a great use of my time. There was a very good donorsearch gauge mint. Yeah, Even bored engagement. Exercise? Yes, yes. So then what do you do with the with the synthesis of all this, Right? So just go. Yes, sure. So before you start, we usually have what we want out of it on the back end anyway. So if we’re looking for a messaging co-branding something like that, So we’re going to know what the front and what we want out of the back end. Sometimes people say like, this has happened so many times, people would say stuff in the room, and that would become their tagline, you know, and oh, gosh, yeah, but I can’t say that in the room. Right? Great sport. You catch it. Yeah, because I’m listening. I’m listening. And I’m scanning for you have the trained ear. Yes. And know what the purpose of the meeting is Yeah, and and and And there there were just creating a space for them. Tio Tio really express their thoughts around the organization and around their goals for their own with their own knife. Very informative, I think. Two CEOs, Teo full boards. Yeah. No, this synthesis, even beyond the product. Whatever it is, you’re looking for messages, right? Or or your promises or whatever, very informative, I think for it is. And it’s also, when you listen first and then and then develop later than we say to them. Hey, you know, because of what you said because of the guidance you gave here’s what we created, or here’s the direction we went. They see the impact. So if we don’t make decisions in the room and we make very clear up front like this is not decisionmaking, we’re not making a focusedbuyer. Yeah, you make want a pole or make a decision or, you know, get at least some priorities out of that. But this is about just this idea of Hey, let’s let’s talk. Let’s create this very specific space to talk about your thoughts around our organization, and then we can use that then to to help our decision making, You know, as a staff, a said struck me as outstanding engagement. Yes, for whatever. Whatever constituent. Cuz you’re bringing in volunteers. Clients? Yes. All the board donors plan giving donors get shot up. E-giving dahna. Yeah. Yes, that’s right there often for gotten. You know that they are. I’m the I’m the Evangelist without the religious overtones for planned e-giving at my client’s. Because it’s often the forgotten group. You know, there’s no recognition society for playing, giving you have a thousand dollars. Five thousand, fifty thousand dollar recognition, nothing for planned e-giving people who put you alongside their grandchildren. Right? And children in there will their life legacy. Teo, you can’t throw them. Ah, Recognition group. Come on. What do you mean? I’m not here yet, but, uh, I make the point. Dahna let’s take a break, and then we’re on our way. Okay, Well, when we come back, then we’ll talk about the authentic personality cause I feel like the info that you would gain from the discovery session of the focus groups leads to your unique personality and authentic personality partner. And and that’s important to know to learn. Tell us, can you use more money? You need a new revenue source. You want diversify revenue. Get a long stream of passive revenue. When cos you refer process their credit card transactions through, tell us infact you get fifty percent of the fee that Tello’s earns. It goes on for months and years with the credit card transactions. You watch the video, then send potential companies to watch it. Where do you get it? It’s on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s For the video, we got to do a live listener Love the live love It’s going out. It’s going out to Ottawa, Canada. Say, I don’t like the way New York of the Ottawa No Ottawa, Ottawa, Canada Welcome. Xiang Xiang, Hyogo Costume, Shanghai China NI HAU Shanghai, not Shanghai I don’t like that Shanghai Shanghai NI Hao, Brooklyn, New York I don’t like that. It’s Brooklyn, New York. That’s the way they would say. Shanghai in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, New York, New York, New York Multiple live, love, All of you, all of you. I’m just going down the list. We’re not. Sometimes I go domestic and then abroad. We’re doing it all on her. And the way Sam wrote it down real court to Argentina. Would that be, uh, put a star days when a star dies? Argentina Riel, Quarto Live Love to you Garza Garcia, Mexico Buena Star Days, Moscow, Russia. Good dog. No, that’s German. Um, Moscow, Russia. Live live out to you Middle village, New York. That’s Long Island. Middle Village. Cool. Charlotte, North Carolina. Live love, special love going on North Carolina, of course. Tampa, Florida Adelanto, adelanto, California Live love to each of you are live listeners And there’s more out there But summer summer mask guarded. I don’t know why, but there’s more live love going out to those masked, guarded people if I didn’t shut you out and the podcast pleasantries the over thirteen thousand listening in the time shift pleasantries to you. Whatever you’re doing, you’re painting your house. You’re washing your car. You’re doing the dishes. Is that your podcast binge day on a Sunday evening or something? No Sunday evenings of fir e mails. I have to be Sunday afternoon. Podcast binging wherever. Whenever you’re listening pleasantries to the that huge podcast audience, I’m grateful that you’re with us. Thank you. Let’s go back to Mary Anders. How does that sound? Great. Okay, cool. So what do I say we’re going to do? Oh, your authentic self authentic personality. One may all right, flushes out what we got here. Oh, you have a quote. I want Tonto. Okay. Okay. Frame this little bit. Page eighty for when you get the book, you’ll see it’s paid for the more honest and authentic you are in your communications, the more you’ll attract like minded people. So we’ve been talking around that, right? That’s like, to me. I was sort of like a thesis. Yeah, a theme running through the whole book, But Okay, but so now we’ll talk about your authentic personality. Okay, What’s this about? So as an organization. So we’ve talked about your personality on the center of the universe. If you can’t say that, you only have one cent. That’s so let’s move it. Dang it, dang it. Shifting away. Right. Light is moving now to your clients and nonprofit organizations who are listening. Yes. So So it’s this idea of, of of your organization just really being who they are. So if your grassroots e that’s okay if you’re older and more established, that’s OK. When you try to present yourself as something, you’re not just like people. People are going to get that through. Yeah. So I was meeting with Ah, a woman that I’ve known for a long time, and she now manages donorsearch vise funds. And she said, Marianne, it’s my job to get below the gloss. The brochure gloss into what’s really going on an organization. And I said, Melinda, it’s my job, not tohave the gloss that you can really see right into an organization that they’re excited, too, to present that to you and that they feel confident, you know and who they are. And and so one of the ways that you do that is, you know, celebrating successes, but then also being really honest about your struggles. We want to and and and if it’s a failure, right? And I In the book, I cite the Engineers Without Borders in Canada. They always do this failure there. Their annual report is their failure report the top ten ways we failed, and I’m like, Okay, boy, that’s a confident but they’re talking about Here is the lessons we learned. And in non-profit, I think we’re not allowed to fail like we think you know and get that become part of part of that risk averse culture if you’re going to take a risk if you can’t be bold and courageous you’re going to fail some. Great. And here’s what we learned from that. And here’s how that helped us grow. And so that’s idea of the good, the bad and and that that’s what people want to know when they want to connect to, you know, in in St Louis, I’m, you know, I’m ah, fostered dogs, right? So that’s one might. That’s one of the things that we do before dogs and you adopt children, adopt just Yes, I am a rescuer by nature, so And so I and there’s, like with you. Yeah. Yes. So there’s several organizations that sort of do a lot of the same this kind of the same thing, right? So they’re all working an animal welfare, right? I’ll show you who’s sorry, where were there are working in an animal welfare, but each of them has a distinct personality, right? And so so what? The organization that I that I worked for it there a little bit gritty and rebellious. The other one is a lot more folksy, community based other one is like older, established. They work on higher level like advocacy and overarching like statewide doing there in the streets. You’re doing the work. You’re rescuing the dog, right? And so so. But each has their own personality. Jefferson City? Yes. Jefferson City, Missouri. Yes. Capital of Missouri. Well, hardly hardly known. Right. City lived in Warrensburg for five years. I was in here for firstborns. Were really Okay. All right, so so. But each one has their own distinct personality, and that’s OK. And so when When you are looking so if I have an affinity towards animals, I can I can look and I can understand, like the landscape and one which one I’m attracted to, right? And and And And so it’s just sort of like owning that like, you know, Hey, you know, this is this is who we are, and this is what we’re about. And and And if you like that, that’s great. And if you don’t, that’s okay too. You know, we’re happy to know us and a hard place to be lorts well to a future with Sorry. I wanna keep it on the chairs now. We’re on a shoestring budget here. Okay, So leading to this is you’ve alluded to this a bunch of times. You wantto take stock inventory? What it is that’s that’s holding you back. What your fears are? Yes. Okay. We haven’t talked about this yet. Yeah, let’s let’s flush this out. Because because if you’re going to be courageous in your communications, there are going to be worries. Fears. We’re going live donors, We’re gonna lose volunteers. The mayor isn’t gonna like us anymore. Etcetera, etcetera, You know, you gotta take stock, right, And then go ahead. You flush it out. Yeah, eso. And so it’s important to inventory your fierce because the concern isn’t going to go away. So when the benefit outweighs the concern, then you’ll move forward. So what I mean by that is when you’re going to have concerns and fears through this whole process. But But we’re working towards something greater. So we just need to learn what our concerns are and then make a plan to address them. Because boardmember Zehr going to say, Oh, my God. What if this happened? Okay, Okay, so what if that does happen? So let’s make a plan to address that. So people like plans because it helps them, you know, feel feel safe and like, Okay, so if we’re going to do this thing, and so what if somebody doesn’t criticize us? What do we dio? And then once we have, like, so a lot of times, you know, Remember when Non-profits were hesitant to get on social media? Because they we’re afraid of of negative comments, right? What if somebody says something? Okay. What if somebody does say something? How do we manage that? And and so because crisis PR to me is just something that happens not every days. Ah, huge crisis. But it’s just you’re going toe. It’s the price of doing business. If you’re doing and saying something interesting, somebody’s not going to like it, and that’s okay. But the people who do like it are the ones we’re concerned about. And so it’s this idea of Okay, What if somebody doesn’t like it? Then how can we address that? And there are, you know, times when I worked with groups where we really just said, Okay, what are all our concerns? And we put them on the whiteboard and we addressed each one with some with some strategies. To address each thing. What if this happened? Okay, this is what we would d’oh. Okay. Right. Okay. On benefits as well. You wantto take stock of the benefits, right? And so that so the idea is to attach Teo and and the thing is, like, you could have one hundred fears. But if you have one benefit right, you’re goingto work past those those fears. And so the idea is okay, as a group understanding, what do we really want for organization? How? No. What is it that it’s really want going to move us forward? And then once we agree to that right, and then so now we know how to get to that. Okay, now, this is this concerns, and we’re just going to manage these as we go with a plan for each one of your plan for each one. Because what happens right now is we’re making decisions based in fear, right? And so let’s make decisions based on rational thought. Right here is what’s best for organization here’s here’s the most efficient way to get what we need or whatever. Whatever it is instead of Oh, no, we can’t do that. That’s that’s that’s too. That’s too something right. So when And so the ideas. Yeah, I get that. That’s scary. But let’s make decisions based based in the rational thought, and then and then just just be mindful that there’s going to be concerns popping up you say in the book fears don’t predict the future. Yeah, right. I’m not a mind reader. I wish I could be. I tell my kids that, too, just because you think it’s all going to go wrong, it’s not. That doesn’t mean it isthe right. So and the ideas like this idea of being an abundance of scanning the scene for but what good could happen instead of constantly scanning the scene for what could go wrong? And that’s why I’m working toward the good right. And that’s a mindset that that, you know, I work for every day, as you know as a person and that that, you know, I work with organizations to Yeah, right. So we’re going to look at the world is a place of abundance and opportunity Instead of fear and scarcity. You got a car last break text to give. Can you use more money? I need a new revenue source. Diversify revenue. Here’s the second way. Mobile giving. You could learn about it with text to gives five part email. Many course you’re You’ll get five emails over five days. Just like my therapy. I could do, mate. I did my therapy in this way be a lot cheaper. So I’m sure five e mails way, Yes. So what do you do to get the five female Many course from text to give you text. NPR for non-profit radio and November Papa Romeo. Air Force days, Whiteman Air Force Base, Warrensburg, Missouri. Jefferson said he’s the capital. Text NPR to four, four, four nine nine nine. All right, we’ve got several more minutes left for courageous communications. Um, so staff expertise you have. You have a chapter on developing right on creating developing staff expertise. Yes. Yes. So just take a picture of me. Yes, you did. You know how to shoot a video, So I know it’s exciting beyond Zoom. You love Zoom I d’Oh d’Oh d’oh. Okay. Okay. So, staff. Okay, so I learned a phrase a couple weeks ago, and it’s It’s not my genius. It’s not my job. And I think that plays really well here. That’s about a about why’s that bad? Because then you have to be. You have to be excellent at everything. But you’re not a possum. That’s right. You’re a genius and everything, right? So, Souto, from your therapist E I learned that for I know. I was on Ah, CEO workshop. Okay. To be average it something. Yeah. Was your therapist? Yes. Yes. It’s okay to be just OK, which is still, like, completely unacceptable to me. But I’m working on it. I know more about your therapy than you do. So know. So. So staff. So so. So a lot of times organizations will, um, get bogged down in what I call a like. They think they’re fund-raising or they think their relationship building because they’re, you know, putting together a newsletter or, you know, an annual report. When I work with folks on that, that there’s only one you there’s only one Tony and Mary. And like some of my kinds, Larry, there’s only right there’s only one Larry or Galen are are the folks that I work with and and so you only you could build those relationships. There’s a lot of people who could do other things in your office, like, you know, the newsletters, this the social media that could update the contents of your website or something like that. And but there’s on ly one you. So when you are bogged down in this, either either two things one is you’re kind of bogged down in it because you’re expected to dio all the relationship building of fund-raising. And then you’re expected to dio all of the you know, the design and development of marketing materials and social media, or you’re doing those things because you’re a little hesitant to do the relationship thing, right? So sometimes people get into fund-raising positions, and they really that relationship building isn’t their forte. And, you know, they fall into these position and they confined administrative things, Teo time. And then they wonder why they didn’t make their money creating goals on DH there moves goals by the end of the year because they’ve because they’re not comfortable doing it s o They found distraction. Yeah, eso and non-profits tend to value money and not time. So they said we were gonna watch every dollar, but we have plenty of time, right, so we can weaken we can have all the time. So we’re gonna work people really long hours. And then because we’re going to keep all that in house, well, we could do that here. We could do that in house and what that does, is it, You know, Yeah, You’re saving money by not sending that out. But the money that you’re losing because of the because those folks, those that they’re geniuses relationship building, let them build relationships, because then they’re going to be generating the income, you know, and then offloading some of those, those duties, that anyone you look at this and say it, and I’m not saying like all too because, like, you know, at my old company five one Creative, I worked with a very awesome team of designers and developers, so nothing anyone could do anything. I’m just saying, what is what is your genius right? What is your gift and are? And is that your primary focus of your job is practicing those gifts because in the end, that is going to move your organization farther. You also make a point of saying, if you don’t have expertise in house, you’re gonna have to spend the money, tio by it. Freelance consulting. Any of the sites that match a big potential volunteers. Yes, but you’ve got to get the expertise you don’t have that you need. Yeah, and, you know, you could learn how to build a website, but then you’re never going to replicate that point. Don’t spend your time don’t spend. And so so yeah, So bring those people in, have them help you in boost you. And I realized when I started my company, I looked around. I said, what makes a successful business? And those people were spending a lot of time and a lot of money and a lot of investment into the professional development of their company and themselves. And I look and I see the same thing. And non-profits they’re bringing people in right there, ringing the highest level, thinking that they confined into really push them forward in a way that they couldn’t have gotten gotten themselves. And then they’re seeing a lot of benefit from that investment. Yes, You have to. You you can’t. Another guest on a couple weeks ago, it was December. You can’t be expert and everything. And there’s no point in learning things right. You don’t need to do what your genius at. Yeah, you’re wasting your time. You’re taking time away from your genius, right? You think you’re saving, but in the end, it’s costing you a lot more. We got about thirty seconds. Encourage us wrap it up and encourage. Yes. So you know, right now, it’s kind of a crazy time. You know, politically. Onda lot of non-profits are really kind of flipping into fear, right? And so, my I’m gonna encourage them to start scanning the world for the possibilities and the abundance around them and creating this brand of attraction so that they can keep that positive energy coming towards them. So that because all these types of our world is uncertain everyday. So when we’re certain of the direction we’re going, we can cope with that a lot. A lot, a lot more easily. Outstanding. You’ll find her at Marianne dash dot com. There’s an e at the end of Marianne, and she’s at Mary and, er sh thank you very much. Thank you for having me. This pleasure. Wonderful. And for insiders, Marianne has time effectiveness tips that we’re gonna talk about. Plus, you’re going to see the shoes next week, walks and runs with Emily Parks. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be seat you Find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing by what you see piela is guiding you. Beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By Tello’s Credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A great of producer was Clam Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by Scott Stein With me next week for Non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent Go out and be great buy-in. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. You could. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in center of attention. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned Potential live life Your way on talk radio dot N Y c. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. You like comic books and movie howbout TV and pop culture. Then you’ve come to the right place. Hi, I’m Michael Gulch, a host of Secrets of the Sire, joined every week by my co host, Hassan, Lord of the Radio Godwin. 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Nonprofit Radio for February 26, 2016: Communicate With Your Communicators & Your Event Pipeline

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Kivi Leroux Miller: Communicate with Your Communicators

Kivi Leroux Miller

Kivi Leroux Miller has tips from her 2016 Nonprofit Communications Trends Report, on how to work effectively with your communications team. She’s the founder of NonprofitMarketingGuide.com and an award-winning author.


Pat Clemency: Your Event Pipeline

With Pat Clemency at Fundraising Day 2014

Get committed major donors from your events by making them transformational, not merely transactional. Pat Clemency has before-, during- and after-event ideas. She’s president and CEO of Make-A-Wish Metro New York and Western New York. Learn lessons from Rochester and Buffalo. (Originally broadcast on October 24, 2014.)

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me, i’d suffer aniko maiko, sis, if you touched me with the idea that you missed today’s show, communicate with your communicators. Kivi larue miller has tips from her twenty sixteen non-profit communications trends report on how to work effectively with your communications team. She’s, the founder of non-profit marketing guide, dot com and an award winning author, and the event pipeline get committed major donors from your events by making them transformational, not merely transactional. Pat clemency has before, during and after event ideas. She’s, president and ceo of make a wish metro new york and western new york khun learn lessons from rochester and buffalo and that’s from non-profit radio on october twenty fourth. Twenty fourteen on tony’s take two thank you. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com also by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay mobile donation feature crowdster dot com i’m very glad, very pleased, very thrilled to welcome kivi. Larue miller to the show she’s the founder of non-profit marketing guy dot com and author of the books the non-profit marketing guide high impact, low cost ways to build support for your good cause and content marketing for non-profits she’s also a certified executive coach. You’ll find her on twitter at kitty l m welcome to the lm hi, tony. How are you today? Terrific. Welcome. Welcome to non-profit radio. Thank you. Tell me about this report that i believe is in its sixth year. Your non-profit communications trends report. How did this come about? Well, you know, there’s a lot that data out there about non-profit management in general and a fair number of reports about development staff. But no one was really looking at communications directors, and those are our primary interest. So we started it. So communications director’s kind of ah, like, like, step children. I mean, there had been a get for gotten sometimes. Well, you know, i think in some of our darker moment, maybe we define it that way. But what i really think is happening is that it’s, a relatively new profession and, you know, ten years ago, communications director, pretty much. Handled pr and maybe some print work. And that was pretty much it now. Of course, things have changed a lot. And so the job is much more complicated, and people are recognizing they need to actually staff it with professionals who are dedicated communications skills in developing their skills. Okay, so young professional. Okay. All right. That’s. Interesting. Because we’ve been communicating for well, as long as we’ve been been been walking, where did radio communications used to fall before we had communications and marketing directors? You know, i think that our people handled it, uh, or you might have had someone who did event marketing and pr. It was often times the executive director’s job or within the fund-raising department, but i think the job has become so big now primarily because of that that really didn’t demand its own staff. Yeah, of course. I’m good. Yeah. I’m just wondering where it used to be. Because, uh, before we had a communications director. Okay, um, what’s the, uh, what’s the background of the report. How do you how do you gather the data from how many people and stuff? Hey! Sametz this year, it was about six hundred. I’d say about forty percent of those people identify themselves with communications staff. Another twenty percent is development staff on another twenty percent as executive directors with a few others. Okay, um, you’re cutting out a little bit heavy. We’ll keep trying it, but we might have to have you call back. We’ll see. Okay, yeah, it’s not, i don’t think. Is anything you’re doing? I think it may just be the nature of digital communications will just just say okay, well, i could try a different line if you need me to. Okay? We’ll see. We’ll see how we do now. You have this broken down very nicely. You have your your four d’s for effectively working with the communications team for the executive director to work nice and effective with the communications team. Um, we will dedicate and define and delegate and discuss. This is all very ysl communicated. Very well. I hope your hope, you know that. Thank you. Yeah. It’s all very it’s laid out very nicely. That’s the report is just very pretty, too. Um, it seems like this is all just, like, falling into just being the executive director being committed to the communications work, i think that’s, right? And, you know, the other thing i would say is that somebody has to make some choices because there are so many different ways to communicate. Now somebody has to get this about what’s going to be the most effective way to communicate with the community based on your gold you’re trying to achieve and unfortunately, in a lot of non-profits people are not really making the decisions, they really are trying to do it all and so that produces a lot of frustration on the part of communications staff, and a lot of our guidance is tio executive directors to either say, hey, you need to make a decision or you need to delegate, then let your communications have to make a decision, but you can’t do everything. Yeah, ok, let’s, let’s, dive into some of your ideas that i mean, there are many more than then we can cover, but we’ll make sure we know well, why don’t we do it now? How can people get get this report very easy? You can go to non-profit marketing died. Dot com slash twenty sixteen and download them with report there. Okay, excellent, if i remember or if you remind me will say that again at the end too, but also because in a lot more to it than the section we’re going to cover. But i’d like to cover this working effectively between executive directors and the communications team. You like to see the communications director on the senior management team? Yes. So many decisions are made early in the program development. Say you’re starting a new program and then all the sudden the communications director it us to market that program. All right, i’ll tell you what, give e um okay. Giv e way lost you there. So would you would you try back on? I don’t know if there’s a different line you can call back on. We’re going to go out early for our break. And, um, when we come back, you’ll be back. And, uh, the number that we need you to call is, uh oh. We want you to call. Uh, you gotta hope you could take this down to one two, seven to one eight. One, eight, zero, two, one, two, seven to one eight. One eight zero we’ll go. Out for a break, we’ll have kitty right back. Stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti, dot com that’s t i g e n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent e-giving sounds clearer now give you they’re right, i am okay, that that’s okay, i don’t think it’s your fault at all. Let’s, go let’s, go back to this idea that the communications director should be on the senior management team. Why is that right? They should be on the scene or senior management team because they need to be involved earlier in strategic conversations about fund-raising decisions and programming decisions lots of times, their routes to market something at the very end and little changes that could have happened earlier in the program would make a big difference in the result, but because they’re just sort of handed this finished product it’s often hard sometimes for them to do is get a job everyone would like, okay, and even just even just simple preparation, right? So they can prepare the team? Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, most people don’t realize how long things take it’s like, oh, put up a new website for, you know, get a bunch of brochures printed. These things take time, especially when you have to work with other professionals buy-in graphic designers. Or editors. And so, you know, people that have never done that kind of work before don’t have an appreciation for just how long it really takes to get it done, right? Yeah, what what what do you feel about when you see a communications marketing directors reporting to the director of development or the or the vice prime? It doesn’t have to be just director, but the vice president development or, you know, the chief fundraiser, i guess that’s not what you want to see well, and we actually don’t see that all that often the most common organisational formats we see are either and integrated communications and development team where they’re already reporting to one senior manager, which i think is the best approach for you sometimes also see the more traditional kind of siloed teams where you have the communications people over here on the development people over there, and they have different bosses but there, more or less at the same level within the organization. Ah, either way, you want people to have access to the decision makers, to be able to move very quickly on decisions because so much of good communications needs to be nimble. And so you don’t want to just bury your communications director away and never talked to her. Which, unfortunately, is what happens a lot. Okay, well, that’s, why that’s? Why? I like this section of the report. Because it ah, hopefully will spark conversations between the executive director and the communications director or communications team. You know, maybe, you know, get some things. Start getting talked about that. It just kind of simmering and nobody’s really having a discussion about these issues school. Um, you like the executive director to understand the basics of communications, right? So we talk about a quick and dirty marketing strategy. Where the first question you wanna answer it? Who were you talking to? Your target audience. The second one is what’s your message to those people. The third one is one of the right channels or ways to deliver that message to the people super easy, right? If you just answer those three questions. Ah, lot of times what happened is people focus on that third question. They just focused on getting the message out without focusing on the target audience. Or if the message is really appropriate and oftentimes executive directors will. Say they don’t like something i don’t like this neither. I don’t like that colors on the website and our responses. Well, you’re not the target audience. Those materials need to be created for the intended community. And but if you don’t have any kind of concept of target audience and trying to reach people with a message that resonates with them, it’s difficult for you to be a good decision maker about communications, so you don’t you don’t want the executive director to be saying you put this out on twitter. This goes on facebook, we need a print brochure for this. Put this on the website. I mean there’s there’s more to it than that. It’s got to be much more strategic thought even just from the executive director at a basic level. Absolutely. Absolutely. Are the people you’re trying to reach in to motivate to do something using those communications channels. You got to answer that question first. Yes. Where are they? Right versus where would you like them to be or what? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um putting some limits on the scope of the work for the communications team. You see them getting dumped on? Absolutely. And without a doubt, we hear the too many competing priorities or urgent tasks overtaking important ones as really big challenges for communications directors and, you know, not only that not only are there too many good communications choices, but lots of times that communications staff end up being the ones who are really good with computers, and so we often see them saddled with responsibilities or because they type well, now they’re doing boardmember way, see, all kinds of things get thrown into communications director there really limit their capacity to be good communications directors don’t dump on me. You see that on you see that on community on director’s desks as you’re mentoring them don’t dump on me. Well, i try to encourage them to stand up for themselves and to say, look, if you want me to be really good at managing our social media channels, creating great newsletters and guess what? Don’t expect me to go fix joe’s computer every time he blows the thing up. Yeah, yeah, that’s. Interesting because you do mentoring is a good part of your work. Um, how do you encourage these conversations that hopefully the report will stimulate but where? It doesn’t. How do you get the executive director and the communications director having this conversation? Well, you know, a lot of it is very interpersonal, right? So lots of times i tried to figure out okay, what is that really relationships that these two people have? But oftentimes we found that executive directors do respond to that outside expert that’s the classic thing where the staff says something, they’re not listen to you. Hyre the consultant consultant says the same thing and suddenly it’s the word of god. Right? So i end up playing that role a lot and really sort of backing up what staff are trying to tell their communications directors and if they can hold me up as an expert, sometimes that’s all they need other times, i give them different ways. Teo open conversations, we’d like to let people have really good examples of what other organizations were doing so they can demonstrate that they’re really not the first non-profit to try this new tactic that often works pretty well, too. Okay, um, have you seen things change over the six years i’ve been doing this report? What are what are some things that you’ve seen either either for the good or bad, you know, i think there really is a nice growing level of sophistication in the field. Like i said earlier, this is a relatively new profession, and people are asking harder questions of themselves, i think, and asking harder questions of people like me and, you know, really trying to be more strategic and not just do do do all the time, i think people do realize that they are overwhelmed with choices and they’re starting to get more savvy about realizing they need to make choices. So i guess, ah, marketing communications plan in being more strategic on dh that helps you make choices? Absolutely and saying, you know what? These three things are the most important things were going to do this year or these three communications channels or where we’re going to be our best, and we’re not going to do some of these other things, even if they’re the popular thing that’s in the news right now, we don’t need to be there. You have to make choices. You just have tio okay, yeah. On dh, prioritize the three most important things. So if something else intervenes, you know that these top three, if it’s competing with one of these, you know, these things take priority, and you know what, tony? People have a really hard time even putting things in one, two, three order you would not believe how difficulty that is for people when they’re talking about their communications, they want ten priorities, and they don’t want to put them in order. So that’s another challenge? I really pushed on communications staff in their executive director’s ok, i promise we won’t publish this. We won’t tell anybody, but i want the two of you to sit down and say what’s number one what’s number two and what’s number three and that’s really hard conversation for a lot of organizations, and what do they usually putting in those ways talking about events that they’re publicizing or programs or channels? What? What are those like? What categories? Of those one, two, three or one through ten for organizations that have a lot of different programs? For example, social service agencies tend to run scores of different programs that could be a really tough decision, you know, they can’t talk about all twenty things they dio in their newsletter. Or a social media the which of those twenty are going to get priority? That’s a really tough management call in other organisations, it tends to be, you know, are we going to speak more to our donors or we’re going to speak more to the people that were trying to serve and given the limited number of hours first on staff who’s most important at any given time again, people don’t want to have to decide, but if you don’t make a decision, you just sort of do it by default and that’s not really any better. Yeah, that’s not strategic, right? But i could see how these air difficult conversations toe have decisions to make, because do we put our volunteers ahead of our donors? Do we put our service beneficiaries ahead of our volunteers? Um so does it help when you say nobody knows except us? Well, it definitely helps them have the conversation with each other, and i think from there duitz they can decide who else has brought into that conversation and whether it really becomes public or not. You know, most people don’t actually publish their marketing and fund-raising strategies, so it does end. Up being an internal conversation, but even just bringing in some of those other program staff who’s, maybe their programs don’t make the top of the list or bringing in board members who have different opinions about fund-raising strategy, you know, they could be sensitive conversations. Okay, so that’s interesting. So do you often bring boardmember cz into to these conversations that you’re having between executive director and communications director? I think it really depends on the board and how active they are and again, whether they have marketing expertise, if you have someone on the board who has those skills and experience, that can be a great asset to the organization. But again, you don’t need someone just spouting off about things that they personally think they really don’t understand how to do communications at a professional level. Yeah, i really like that newsletter we did three years ago when we go back to that format, right? Or, you know, then there’s the one boardmember had to deal with one time who insisted that facebook was really just for perverts, so that was helpful, you know that she insisted the organization shouldn’t be on facebook because of a pervert. So you know, those kind of situations you just latto sort of move them along and get back to creating a real social media strategy. I think she was a friend of mine. Actually think that i got okay. Uh, that’s. Interesting. Cool. Okay, um, um, professional development you want to see? Oh, i think my voice just cracked like i’m fourteen professional development you want to see invested in? Correct, right? This is perfect. This is professionally. Yes. And it’s. We’re so blessed, really. And the communications field and i guess it’s no surprise, because we’re communicators, right? But there are so many good communications bloggers and people who are doing free webinars and free e books. Orsino certainly paid opportunities as well, but you could start with just the free blog’s and learned an incredible amount and both fund-raising and communications. So i really recommend that all communications staff take atleast an hour a week, if not more. But at least an hour a week to disclose the door, turn off the email in the social media and just read. Just read for an hour. That alone can really advance their own skills. How about conferences? Is there? A conference that you recommend? Sure. There are a couple, you know, there’s. Not one conference. Really? That is specifically for non-profit communications directors. However, there are a few events that i think you’re doing a decent job at meeting their needs. So my favorite national conference is intends. National technology conference. I try to make that every year there are a couple of regional events. There’s, a relatively new conference in north carolina called create good that is focused on non-profit communications and marketing. That’s another great a regional event. Ah, you know, some of the other events, we have a piece of it. Okay, just ah, well, let’s not highlight those because we want the ones where it’s you know, it’s it’s a premiere. Now you’ll be it. You’ll be a ntcdinosaur in san jose, this six coming march in march. I well, okay, looking for it. And i’ll be working with on two different sessions. Oh, cool. Oh, you’re presenting. All right, i’ll be hosting the live stream, the live audio stream and tc live. So we’ll shake hands. They’re absolutely all right. Um another thing that you like to see done is allowing your communicators to say no to the executive director. What do you mean by that? Well, lots of times executive directors get very excited about things, you know, lots lots of executive directors were really visionary people, and so they all come up with big ideas like we need a nap, you know, that’s when we hear a lot, yes, and odds are you probably don’t need a nap and may, even if you maybe do you probably can’t afford it. And, you know, we deal with a lot of small and medium sized organizations, and ap is something that really requires some pretty strategic thought is not something that you could just turn around and have online in today. So, you know, those are the kinds of things that we want communications staff to feel okay? Saying, you know what? I hear you? I know you’re excited about that. I’m gonna i’m gonna put that in my good ideas file for now and and not end up getting distracted and working on an app for the next two days when they need to be doing other things. Oh, app development could be there six months. Well, an expensive said and expensive too. You know, but lots of times what we see is an executive director saying, oh, you know, go find out the app thing, and then the communications director has to spend that day researching what it takes to create an app. Okay, well, knowing that they’re never going t to do an app and so that time hasbeen wasted. Okay? Aps yeah, i hear that occasionally. Do we need a nap, right? Um, you wantto see regular editorial meetings? What what? What’s an editorial meeting an editorial meeting is where you sit down and talk about what you’re going to talk about, and we’re going to talk about it. So what’s going in the new hey, brother what’s going on facebook? What event? Marketing you need to dio what presentations different staff are doing and how you can capitalize that already and reuse that content. So it’s really about focusing on, you know, what are the most important messages this week in this month? And how are we going to get them out the door? And again? This is where a lot of the triage has to take place. You’ve got fifteen different things you should probably be talking about. That because you have been planning that well, you can talk about all of them. You gotta prioritize. And so that’s the editorial meetings allow that to happen on a regular basis. It’s sort of forces the decision to be made and helps the communications team better plan their work. Going forward is a lot of that covered in our annual marketing and communications plan. You know, you can plan for sure, but so much of good communication is being about being responsive and really tying your work into what people are hearing about in the news today. So you can’t predict any of that, right? So you always need to be able to say, ok, this is what we want to talk about today. This is what’s actually in the headlines. This is what we’re hearing from our clients. This is what our donors air saying, what really does make sense to talk about, you have to adjust, and you have to tweak things. Okay? For sure. So i got you. All right. Um, internal communications you like, you know, you can’t really have good external without good internal. Absolutely. And, you know, i think the editorial meeting is a nice way to start those conversations. But what we talked about earlier about how teams were structured and making sure that the communications staff are not segregated from the development staff and they’re not segregated from the program’s staff. You know where people sit within a building or how often they talk to each other just throughout the course of their work can have a big impact on how well they work together. And then how well they communicate is a team outside the organization? Yes. Okay, you’re very good at explaining these very concisely to school. Thank you. Good. You’re a professional communicator. Um, how did you get into communications? This, uh, former step child profession. How did you how did you find your way here? Well, when i graduated from high school, i wasn’t sure if i wanted to be a journalist or environmentalist, and i ended up going to uc berkeley and they had a better environmental program than underground journalism program. And so i went the environmental route, and we’re in the environmental community for about ten years, but always kept writing. And so when i have the opportunity to move to the east coast and start my own business. I decided i was going to be a freelance writer for environmental groups, and it just sort of blew up from there, okay? Ah, i’ve been picking all the topics we have just about a minute or so left what what’s one that you’d like to cover, that we haven’t talked about. Well, let’s see, we’ve hit a lot of you know, i think one of the most important things that we can really do to help communications directors get the work done right is, too give them a boost of confidence. A lot of what i feel like i’m doing when i’m entering people is encouraging them to start these hard conversations with their executive directors to leave their offices and go hang out with their program’s staff to find the stories and really get the good information from people you know, like because this is such a new profession, people aren’t sure how to do it all the time, and they need a little extra shove in the right direction. And so, you know, i just want to encourage people to take it upon themselves to try to make something happen. Hilary miller you’ll find her at non-profit marketing guide dot com. And if you put forward slash twenty sixteen after that, you’ll find the report. Did i have that? I get that right for the report. E-giving that’s, right, ok, and on twitter, you’ll find her at k v l m. Thank you so much, kitty. Thank you, tony. A real pleasure. The event pipeline with pat clemency is coming up first. Pursuant, you have a problem? Uh, the problem solution statement. You have a problem. You need to raise more money. One of the solutions pursuing pursuing dot com. They’ve got these tools velocity for managing your fund-raising and helping your fundraisers manage themselves in their activities. And there their deadlines, their solicitations, etcetera, and then also helps you manage the fund-raising function. Um, prospector, which helps you find the upgrade ready donors that five hundred dollar donor-centric giving fifteen hundred or five thousand it’s using your data to find the people that you should be spending more time with and trying to get them upgrade. That’s the prospector tool these air, you know, made for small and midsize non-profits because you don’t have big fund-raising staff, um, you need help and pursuing ties, the technology that that does it. And you pick the tools that you need. That’s. Why, i think it’s ideal for small and midsize. You take what you need, leave the rest and all those tools are at pursuant dot com also crowdster with their new one of a kind apple pay mobile donation feature. It’s going to increase your mobile donations, which again pain, pain solution or problems solution statement you got to raise more money. I have a solution crowdster they obviously do crowdfunding site easy interface for your donors. They’re elegant looking sites. They look cool. You can check this all out at crowdster dot com and also the back end. Very helpful for you administering your crowd funding campaign now, tony’s, take two. Thank you for supporting non-profit radio. I don’t know. I hope i don’t say thank you too often, maybe that’s not possible, but i am grateful that you listened to the show and whether it’s live listeners or affiliates to get our affection or podcast listeners that get my pleasantries. I’m grateful for your support of the show if you getting the weekly alerts about who the guest star each week into your inbox. Thank you for that. If you’re with me on twitter, facebook, thank you. However it is, we’re connected. You’re supporting non-profit radio and i’m grateful. Thank you so much for being there. That’s tony’s, take two here is pat clemency from october twenty four ah twenty fourteen show on the event pipeline welcome to tony martignetti. Non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen we are in times square, new york city at the marriott marquis hotel with me now is pat clemency. Her seminar topic is the event pipeline turning event guests into major donors. Pat is president and ceo of make a wish metro, new york and western new york that clemency. Welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. Pleasure to have you. You have ah, pretty desperate territory, new york city and western new york it’s an interesting territory, but i think it really is empowering in the sense you get a chance to say all sorts of markets in which you can raise money and it’s really the opportunity to understand how donors react in their markets and and you know what the universal is? They won’t want to make a difference. And how far west does western new york go in your for we cover the major cities of buffalo and rochester, seven ending counties. It’s just go over to buffalo. It does. Okay, so we don’t have the middle of the state. But we have a new york city in nassau county and then seventeen states counties upstate. What do? You see that non-profits are not quite getting right around events and transitioning donors from events. Oh, you think, you know, we all start with special events? I mean, there’s, no question about it, but i think it is the recognition that there is a discipline that can make those events were quarter and smarter and are part of a major gifts strategy if we see it as an event that we efficiently come into and go out of without seeing its capacity to build a pipeline of donors for other kinds of fund-raising particularly major gifts, i don’t think we make it a ll that it can be. So today we really talked had a great dialogue around the issue about some of the things that we can do to make a special event. Three distinct parts. It matters deeply what we do before going into the event. We’ll talk a lot about planet absolute, but planning in a different way, that really makes us understand who is coming, who are the prospects, but the day of the event. How do we really connect the donor’s? Not just with the event, but with the mission and how they can. Make a specific difference and how we then engaged him in the journey, not with the event but with the organization over time. He’s really the third ingredient in and so it really is very helpful to think about it as more than simply even itself. I’m gonna ask you to talk even closer to the mike because we have now we have the background noise because lunch is lunch is over, so stay nice and close. We don’t pick up too much outside background noise. Well, let’s start with the natural place of planning. What? What should be redoing as we’re planning the event? Planning for transitioning attendees to teo to our donor, right? I think we’re all too often we start with logistic rather than the strategy. What are we trying to do and who are we trying to attract? We also need to cast a wider net if you think of the donor pyramid. I mean, we’re looking at our past event guests and hoping people who will be new to the event will also come but we’re not looking for the clues that people give us on dso we found there was great opportunity looking at direct male donors give one hundred dollars more, and when we did some wealth screening, we found out they gave us one hundred dollars, not because that was their capacity. We had a box and they checked it and they gave us one hundred dollars. But we understood it. When we looked at it, they had so much more capacity, but we never got around to asking them. So looking a little bit more broadly and thinking about the strategy of engagement, we basically said, if you look at an event just as a single time, we’re going to invite him again next year. But if we look at the event and over late, a lot of the major gift strategies we have the ability to change the whole dynamic your oil to feet of the event. It could be that the institution and would be a longer term engagement. We get that right in the planning stage. That’s what we want, right? We don’t want this coming up year after year. And does this include people who come? They may only come one time because there connected with the honoree or just a friend of the organization brought them. Wait, convert those kinds of people. Well, you know, it’s very interesting. We learn a lot from our buffalo rochester offices because they have a very different evergreen strategy. Honorees are looked at differently than we look at them in new york city, and they are on it for body of work. So as a result, most of their strategy is thinking about how do you get the same donors to renew at higher levels each and every year? So now we’re beginning to implement that, saying, regardless of the honoree, how do we get more of our sponsors to renew? And then for those one time donors who come because of a gala honoree, we need to do some more screening and think about who else in our boards within the make-a-wish family knows them so that the relationship can transition to the organization, not simply around the honoree. What else can we learn from rochester and buffalo? Well, you know what? I think it is universal, so what? People want to make a difference? And we just have to make sure that we’re not leading with what we need, but we understand that the first conversation is the donor’s needs and the donor wants to be able to make a difference how our job is to take them on the journey by showing them how treating them like an investor, and that is a really key difference. Very often we ask for what we need, and we never think from the donor perspective, what about the organization will really resonate with them for the long haul? Do you really feel that upstate or western new york is better than downstate new york at this? No, no, i mean, they they’re scale is very different than ours. I mean, it’s a smaller scale the week that i think the best thing about fund-raising is if we are open to understand the best practices exist everywhere they learnt from us, we learn from them and i think it’s one. But i think the interesting thing is in every market, if you begin to institute this practice of looking at a bent donors not just as dahna sporting event on an annual basis, but really, truly look at it as a pipeline, we have seen donors go from seventeen hundred dollars to ten million dollars, or from our five thousand dollars. To five hundred thousand dollars. It isn’t a journey overnight, but the fact of the matter is some of our very gorgeous major gift donors entry point was at an event was how we dealt with that that made all the difference as to whether or not that became a continued transaction. We sell a ticket, you come to our event or if it really became a transformational relationship, the mission of the organization, are there other specific things that we should be doing in our planning? Aside from the concept of the lifetime donor, the longer term relationship, are there things specific to go to the invitation? Who invites them how they’re invited before the event? What else should we be doing specifically? Well, we began talking about if we were to really make this part of our major gifts strategy, what are the ships that we need to make? And when you think about it, our invitation is to an event we needed t even change the messaging were not just inviting you to invent we’re inviting you to share and join in this extraordinary mission and that’s very subtle, but it’s a very big difference, and so we even change the fact that when you come to a gala is a perfect example think about how we spend the first hour at cocktails just kind of wandering around. Instead, registration is outside, so the minute you enter the doors, you are coming in and part of a community of like minded people who believe that this is some of the most important work we could do for kids, and you are meeting wish families and volunteers on board members course searching you out as the guest that evening in that first hour becomes a really important message about we welcome your involvement in this remarkable work. How do we convey that message in our cocktail hour? Well, it’s really about storytelling and changing who tells the story? So if you think about it very often at a gala, whether it is during the cocktail hour, it’s during the main speeches of the night, putting up the ceo, they’re putting up the board chair. We’re talking about the past. We’re actually talking about statistics and how much money we raised in our case, somebody wishes granted when we changed the dynamic of who the storyteller wrists really should. Be the people who experienced the mission first hand and as we tell the story through their eyes, it says to a donor here’s exactly what your donation would do here’s exactly how it makes a difference in that moment for a lifetime that’s a very different relationship from the beginning of the point where that donor enters the gala. If we’re going to focus on storytelling at our events and it might be a very big one memory big gala or it might just be a smaller could be anything smaller, gathering, maybe even a meeting. Absolutely, we need thio sounds like have a very consistent message that the leadership is conveying that trickles down to all the employees and then also the board is conveying right when we need to have consistency and messaging. Well, you have to be have consistency in a couple of things. I think you have to have consistency and messaging for sure, but you also have to build a culture where the board and the staff are engaged in thinking about who’s there, you know, there’s, not a throwaway seated any event, and when you think that it matters most, there is a greater level of engagement on the part of the board and the staff and pretty work that gets done who’s at those tables. Who should we know how we welcome them? What would be important to them? And it allows boards to be successful. You know? Somebody tells you hear from boardmember i’ve given you every contact i have there’s, nobody else i can approach this empowers boards to reach out to other people that the organization knows and be champions that night for the cost. So they’re assigned we’re assigning people too, to meet specific people during the evening during the event. Absolutely and beyond that, you’re the eyes and ears. Every single person has a role kind of just surveying the room and learning what what they’re hearing that night and reporting, in fact so justus, we schedule an event on a day before that event takes place. We also have the debrief date by which boardmember volunteer staff get together. What did you hear? What did we learn? In very often? One piece of information about somebody was in the room is magnified then by another piece of information. And out of that then becomes thought. Okay. The event is over, but it’s on ly really big beginning in terms of engaging that dahna long term now on the way for the organization, and so part of the debrief is what’s next, what are some of the opportunities? And you’re right, we have to be on the same page. If someone were to say to us post event, i’d love to be involved how we ought to be able to convey what the options are many and there’s not going to be one that works for everybody. But everybody needs to know here some of the ways that you could be involved on an ongoing basis. So we’ve transitioned from beginning in the planning stage two day of now. We’re at our events. What else? A little bit there. Sorry, that was allowed. What else should we be thinking about? Oh, are executed the day of create this transition? Well, i think the other thing that you could do very, very well is start with strategy what’s the message that you’re trying to convey that should be the threat of connection to everything that’s being done that night and for us was really talking about the ripple. Effect of wishes in the ripple effect of wishes is a moment in time, yes, but it also has a lifelong impact. So one of our speakers was a thirty five year old executive with a wall street firm. He was a wish child seventeen years ago, and so the impact for him wass it had a ripple effect through his life, the life of his brother, who they really had a hard time when he was diagnosed with cancer. As the family would tell you, everybody’s diagnosed cancer, you know, said everybody has cancer feels like and so the threat of connection of his wish was in that mama with his brother. But it was also over his life he became a wish raining volunteer, helping others but imagine his role now explaining to people in his way that this investment that you will make tonight in support of this event, hasn’t it has an impact. Come on, the future generation of kids were just like me, that’s a that’s amazing way to tell the story, so the first part is what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to show the ripple effect over time across families in communities. And so all of those voices were part of the program that once that strategy is that you can always worry about the logistics next, but you’ve got to get that piece of it too often in event planning for the night of we think about the logistics, but we haven’t really thought about the strategy and that that’s, what we lead with and that story telling is is just a one part of it. Next is if you’ve told the story, then you’ve got a provided tangible way for people to make a difference, and so we don’t we do a lot of fund-raising at night, but its not around and for things we had one great item this year, and the rest is all about an auction to allow people to sponsor wishes and that’s the meaning of it. You go from the programme, which told the story from the perspective of families who have experienced it and then give people the opportunity to share in joining the mission by sponsoring future wish it was incredible to watch the little store ones, and some don’t respond to the wish. A season for wishes any or twenty five thousand. Dollars. Donation. In the room. An individual wish, right down to a thousand dollars and watching the room right up. Every time somebody was part of the community that was making a difference was really an extraordinary thing. It allowed people to know that this was a really special thing, that in this time and place, we’re all making a difference. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige, no knee author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. Dahna oppcoll i’m going to ask a little just sort of a digression just about the logistics of that that auction for wishes did you have people predetermined that would that would be bidding on on any of the any of those auctions and those wish auctions way we thought about wass how could we make it? And i don’t mean to suggest the whole thing’s written? No, no, what did you have one or two people who you knew would get the ball rolling? They were all legitimate bits. We wouldn’t do that, but but there’s a couple of things that we were able to do before tony. So three board members came forward and said for new donors who never made a donation before to make a wish, the ability to come and make a difference for a child that’s a pretty important thing, but how much more would they feel? The impact of that initial donation if we came up with a challenge match, so three of our board members got together and one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars was put up in advance. They pledge this and they would donations of two hundred seventy five thousand, so that was a huge thing. We also knew from a couple of donors at the wish auction for somebody who couldn’t be at the gala, they were out of town was still a way to participate, so for people who weren’t there and want to participate that’s part of our culture now you always have this opportunity give even if you can’t be there. So we knew a handful of dahna they do it? What’d you do for the ones who couldn’t be there, so they have already pledged it, and they’ve made that commitment right before, and so we let people know that we were able to do that. Those two things are done in advance. We know that if if people know that thie donation they make is going to be doubled, there’s a likelihood that they’re going to give a little bit more on dh, then the other one to find a way to let donors who just can’t not be there that night. How else could we participate when it’s about wishes anybody can participate? And i think that helped a cz well, so that’s kind of the two things we know going into the night. Come and then way announced to the audience and then the third part of our trilogy stories after the event, what do we need to be now? Follow-up should be planned during planning, right way we should be thinking about what our follow-up is gonna be while we’re doing the advance planning it is, but we’re hearing a lot that night, and you’re understanding what the individual journey might be for donorsearch we can talk about on overall strategy were also listening to the donors needs as well, and that we hear that that night so that’s that’s an important thing. But, you know, i i think there’s a couple of great examples, our ten million dollars donor started out as a seventeen hundred dollars, went on. He bought tickets to a mets game where they were doing a benefit for make a wish and to see the journey after some of the events it was where he got to the transitional stage was when he was able to make a difference for the individual wish, so he began to grant wishes and then began to think, well, if i could grant a wish, i wonder if i could do more then he began to grant a wish a month for five years. Sixty kids, when you think about that, and that his attitude wass. But i couldn’t hyre others by this, and i have to lead by example. So in his office building, he took down some of his paintings and put up something that we have designed, which was simply a tree, acknowledging those wishes that have been granted so simple. First name of a child and a wish. When you came up into his hobby, you immediately saw that. This was somebody who was champion the cost. So he then, as he got closer after, after having been an event donor. And so when it became time to start thinking about the next generation wish children, you know, in two thousand thirteen, we were thirty years old, and we had grand on ten thousand wish, and we had a big bowl dream for the future. We wonder, grant the next ten thousand wishes because we understood now importance and impact want to grant those ten thousand wishes in a decade? Well, how do you sell somebody on a big, bold dream? Will you go to your best investors in the cause? And he said, well, i’d like to give you a down payment on the future, and that became the largest individual gift in the history of make-a-wish worldwide from an individual and think about that for the for the future of this organization, you know, here was somebody who went from seventeen hundred dollars, two, ten million, but it was never about ten million dollars for him. It was about the ability of change ten thousand lives. And so you think we moved from transaction, you know, i give you tickets to this event because you gave me a donation moved to the transitional stage where we could say thank you for making a difference for that child to the transformational stage would thank you for making a difference for the future of the mission that’s where the journey goes. If we take our special event and understand that each of those stages the preplanning the night of and what happens after are all distinct but equally important segments that can help that donor journey. Okay, we still have a couple of minutes left. Anything you want, teo. Hopefully you do have something you want to share that we haven’t said yet. Well, i think you know, one of the things that i was really struck by wei had our gala on june twelfth this year. And there was a couple who had come forward and they were security. They secure the honore, and they were great in helping support the fund-raising around him. And as they thought about sending a letter out two people to solicit funds from business colleagues and family and friends, i learn a lot when you see the letters, say, right, and this one just simply said we got involved with make a wish because we learned about Micah 6 year old who want to be a ballerina. We stayed involved because over the years we’ve seen hundreds and thousands of kids whose lives have been forever changed, and what i realized was here was a couple who came to an event was a cultivation event, just learn about make-a-wish and they heard that story and that stayed with them, and now we have an event for which they were such an incredible catalyst as a couple raised one point, six million dollars the fund-raising they did was extraordinary, they’ve been doubt a wish in perpetuity, and yet they never lost sight of the fact that it was at an event that was learning about that one child that touch them and made them want to do more. I don’t think i really understood the power of their motivation until that moment, but what i did no that’s, the discipline that we need to put in place and that’s the story telling you a story telling all the way in which we don’t look at this as a transaction it’s so much more and event can be so much more and could be such a powerful part about how we welcome donors into the extraordinary missions that we all support don’t leave it there. Ok, tony. Thank you. My pleasure, pat clemency. She is president and ceo of make a wish, a true new york and western new york and thank you for bringing lessons from rochester and buffalo. Thank you, my pleasure or listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen. Thank you so much for being with us next week. I just don’t know what’s going to happen next week. We’re pre recorded today, but have i ever let you down? If you missed any part of today’s show, i urge you find it on tony martignetti dot com. I’m just not sure about the singing. For twenty sixteen, we’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuing two dot com and by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now, with that apple pay mobile donation feature crowdster dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by dina russell, and our music is by scott stein be with me next. Week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Hey! What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones, me doris, the founder of idealised, took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email. Address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Tony and Maria Cuomo Cole a meeting of Executive Women in Nonprofits

Women’s Touching Relationship Stories

Tony and Maria Cuomo Cole a meeting of Executive Women in Nonprofits
Maria Cuomo Cole and me at a meeting of Executive Women in Nonprofits
Last month I was privileged to hear professional women share touching stories about relationships that meant the world to them, from moms to mentors.

I was a guest at a meeting of Executive Women in Nonprofits, part of the New York Society of Association Executives. I interviewed Maria Cuomo Cole, chair of HELP USA, talking about relationships that have helped her professionally.

Then we broadened to a group discussion.

Brave executive women opened themselves to the 30 in attendance revealing how all kinds of relationships helped them get where they are. The stories moved me to tears.

At that moment, I felt I was invisibly witnessing women talking when there isn’t a man in the room. In fact, there were two of us. The other was silent and, as facilitator, I was not.

Of course, I can never be a live witness to women talking when there isn’t a man in the room. But that was how I felt.

Thankfully, it was captured in HD video which you can play below.

Members of Executive Women in Nonprofits, I thank you for inviting me. My special thanks to leader Holly Koenig.

It was a unique, exhilarating morning.

Picture of Maria Cuomo Cole

Nonprofit Radio for July 19, 2013: Relationships & Tumblr Tactics

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Picture of Maria Cuomo Cole
Maria Cuomo Cole
Maria Cuomo Cole: Relationships

Maria Cuomo Cole, philanthropist and board chair of HELP USA, shares the professional value of all her relationships (including her mom!) and how they’ve helped her and HELP USA succeed. We talked at the June meeting of Executive Women in Nonprofits, part of the NY Society of Association Executives (NYSAE).



Picture of Amy Sample Ward
Amy Sample Ward
Amy Sample Ward: Tumblr Tactics

Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor, co-author of “Social Change Anytime Everywhere” and CEO of NTEN explains the value of micro-blog site Tumblr, how to decide whether you should be in, and how to get started.



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Here is a link to the audio: 151: Maria Cuomo Cole: Relationships & Tumblr Tactics. You can also subscribe on iTunes to get the podcast automatically.
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Durney hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s friday, july nineteen oh, i hope you’re with me last week why i didn’t do it dermatitis if it came to my attention that you had missed measuring the network non-profit with beth cantor she’s, co author of the network non-profit and measuring the network’s non-profit and she talked to me a tte fund-raising day last month about wide engagement and measuring your multi-channel outcomes and goodbye google alerts maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder had free alternatives in case google alerts disappear this week. Mario cuomo, cole on relationships miss cole, a philanthropist and board chair of help yusa shares the professional value of all of her relationships, including her mom and how they’ve helped her and help yusa succeed. We talked at the june meeting of executive women in non-profits, which is a part of the new york society of association executives and tumbler tactics. Amy sample ward, our social media contributor, co author of social change, anytime everywhere and ceo of inten, explains the value of tumbler how to decide whether you should be in tumbler, blogging and how to get started between the guests on tony’s, take two there’s a myth going around planned e-giving that we’ve got planned e-giving covered, and i think a lot of non-profits actually don’t have it covered talk about that. My pleasure. Now, to introduce my interview with maria cuomo cole, i do want you to know that the second half of this interview so after the break, there’s a part of the discussion because we at the meeting, we opened up the conversation to a broad discussion. Part of discussion is kind of quiet, little low. I know about it already. You don’t have to tweet or email everything i know, but a couple of women said some very poignant things about relationships in their lives, and i wanted to include it. It’s, not silent, but if you have had headsets or earbuds, you may wanna use those in the second half of this maria cuomo cool interview. Here you go, everyone welcome. We’re at a meeting of the executive women in non-profits a shared interest group of the new york society of association executives. You will find them at n y. U s a net dahna that was the obligatory video in trim for this will be on youtube in a couple of weeks, and you’ll all get the link from holly and very shortly, it’ll also beyond my pad podcast on a non-profit radio you’re talking about relationships today and first i’m goingto have a chat with maria, and then after that, we’re going to open it up and have you share some stories about relationships that have been important to you personally or professionally and how those have helped you professionally. Lots of different kinds of relationships, whether their peers, people working for you people work. You work for mentor mentee, lots of different possibilities. I’m very pleased to introduce my voice. Just crack. Did you hear that? Pleased to like a sixteen bad alex. Like a sixteen year old, my voice is cracked. Very pleased to introduce maria cuomo. Cole she’s, the chair of the board of help yusa, a leading developer of housing for those suffering homelessness and low income she blocks for the huffington post she’s, a film producer and a philanthropist. We’re gonna learn more about all of her work. Maria cuomo, call. Welcome. Thank you it’s a real pleasure to have you. Why don’t you start telling us a little about maura about help us? We’ll help you say, uh, well, our mission is to create opportunities through housing and services to help stabilize families and crises and individuals and crises who are not living independently. Andare are long term mission is to help those individuals sustain housing stability. And we do that through a very innovative a real estate model of permanent housing with support services on site, child care services, employment, mental health counseling, etcetera. Is there also something transitional before people are bottle? Actually, yes. The model was actually created in the nineteen eighties. Find my brother andrew, um, during the koch administration as a family transitional homeless model and that that model has grown in new york. We have over two hundred colleagues today providing transitional homeless services and thie help model was named a congressional model in nineteen, eighty seven and b has become part of each administrations working with homeless populations across the country. Actually, our permanent housing model is a more sophisticated application, basically another another financial model that has enabled us to provide a long term permanent housing for the same populations um, including a lot of veterans latto very is a no that’s. Homelessness is a yeah fine problem. That’s unfortunately true. One and four homeless men is a veteran that’s been the case? Actually, for many years some say that the number is closer now to one point three one out of three. There are sixty one thousand homeless veterans each night, sleeping on the streets in america, which is just devastating for women as well. And for women, well, for female vets is a growing population that have that are largely underserved. Um and it’s, a population that help yusa has tailored programmes to accommodate there has been improvement. The va has quickly improved and expanded their services for women and for young for young veterans returning the Numbers were as high as 1 hundred twenty one even hyre two hundred thousand homeless veterans just three years ago. So so things are improving, but a great deal of work needs to be done quickly to accommodate our returning veterans. You have some interesting revenue sources, including comfort foods. I saw a chocolate. You, my brandraise sample. Try and focus for the morning. But no way try everything. Yes, we’ve been able to use our help, yusa, artwork and the brand for some social enterprises, we’re very fortunate to be one of the nineteen eighties non-profits in new york that benefited so generously by, uh, keep bearing such a remarkable talent artist philanthropist in his own right said such a generous spirit, the organization can’t achieve this kind of success and prominence on its own so let’s move and talk a little about relationships how have generally relationships been important? To help us is growth and to your, you know, your professional ball so well, i mean, relations abroad, a broad question, but i mean the very model, uh, of help usa, the innovative model is really one of public private sector partnership, and the model on lee only works because we have the interests of serving special needs constituency using private resources and public a public resource opportunity. So local governments, state government, federal government, private banking communities, for-profit uh, businesses and individuals, all i have to really partner work together in order, tio, create a bill, help residents and provide services long term on dh for you personally, relationships, whether they’re let’s. Let’s, start with. Since there were talking about the organization, level your relationships with peers that other organisations, whether for-profit or non-profit, well, our community. I’m partial. I think that the new york city non-profit community as a whole is really, really the most robust, professional, sophisticated and collaborative in the country. Ground experience. Um, and i think we really set a standard here for communities around. Give a shout out for new york city, new york city. Relationships, collaboration. And now in our in our space of developing housing and services for special needs populations, uh, provider community has has been extremely collaborative through the years. In fact, when my my brother andrew was hud secretary, we were required in new york city to work as a consortium application for funding toe hood. So, you know, the mayor’s office communities, state and providers had to work cooperatively at designing assessment and and proposing strategies for support so there’s no greater exercise than to bring two hundred plus organisations into, uh, into one collaborative application process. Andi, i think the community works very well in maximizing core strengths, individual agencies to work with populations that they have the head home to the expertise to serve. Uh, i know our agency and many others try hyre very, very hard not to recreate the wheel. You know ourselves if we are providing services in the bronx for children. And the children’s aid society, for example, is a very prominent agency, of course in new york city for youth services. We’ve turned to them to ask them to help with, you know, with complimentary services for our homeless youth after school. And in many in many such examples, we’ve been able to better serve our populations on dh there could be challenges to in in for exam, for instance, bringing together two hundred organizations or even just partnering oneto one there has to be compromised and saying little about overcoming some of those challenge that’s true that’s true, i mean, i think that our experience has has been that when there is a need that another organization can serve and we’re providing, we’re providing whether it’s, the constituency, the population, the resource of our buildings, for example, we have beautiful community spaces and, you know, retail space that a lot of non-profits need to deliberative services so that’s ah, point of partnership and and, uh, coop cooperative collaboration, um, so we we really haven’t encountered i can’t say that we really encountered problems in that regard, it’s such a rich community in new york of service providers that we have been able to find partnerships to serve our families, our single homeless individuals, veterans, children and really enhance our overall delivery. Right now we take a break for a couple of seconds, and while we do, if you have your ah, you’re buds or headset. You may want to get it, because the second part of the upcoming segment, after the break is a little quiet, but very good, things said by the women who were there. Thanks. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our coaching and consultant services a guaranteed to lead toe. Right, groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight, six zero foreign, no obligation. Free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect no more it’s time for action. Join me. Larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s. Ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com yeah, those watching from outside new york city. I hope your thing close attention because new york is not a unfriendly place should come. You should come. You should visit. You should collaborate. Way all know this here in the room. So i’m speaking to those who are watching from outside new york were not unfriendly here we welcome you. We want to work with you. We want to collaborate. Let’s, move to the personal side, i think dahna all of us benefit from personal mentor mentee relationships, maybe with peers. Other colleagues say little about how that’s helped your professional. Well, this is my twentieth year with help u s a all right, a measurable amount of time. Two decades. And i could say, you know, some of the relationships that we’ve developed through the years with private businesses with other non-profits have really helped our model flourish, you know? I can i can say kapin partnerships with unrelated businesses to specifically what we do with bloomingdale’s the retailer, we’ve had a very close partnership with them for now. Over fifteen years, serving children have been volunteermatch entering youth program. That’s got to mean that you have a good relationship with the ceo there or someone at the high level. And then you and the children from the ceo’s leadership, of course, is always essential and establishing the value of voluntarism within a company, certainly and cooperative spirit it’s gotta trick your spirit has to trickle down, but, you know, they have a fantastic executive team that really cares very much about giving back to the communities and our partnership that started in new york with volunteer mentoring after school mentoring for at risk youth has grown teo all of their forty stores across the country, really expanding our model and our service delivery. You have some specific advice for the relationship between the ceo or chair and the volunteer board of trustees within the organization to help us, you know, here, too, we’ve been blessed with tremendous, tremendous board leadership through the years, um, individuals who bring different sorts of talents and acumen to help us do what we do, which is a fairly sophisticated, complex collection of services. So whether the individuals have business acumen, real estate, finance, thie arts, education, health um it’s, a very mixed group and there’s always that challenge there’s always that challenge. Of finding the right trusty who has the skills that you’re lacking and we know there were plenty of attorneys, there are plenty of sepa is but finding that right, one who works well with the mission believes in the mission and is going to be a value to the board. Yes, that’s true, that is true. Our board members tend to be tend to be long timers, too. I can’t think i can’t think of more than one or two cases where board members have actually had to leave for different reasons moving, you know, changes, work or environment, but it’s a very, very committed team, and we work hard building those relationships and really keeping our board very engaged. We need their service, we need there their contributions. So we tried to make careful matches of program, area and growth area where they can, you know, really make a difference and participate, contribute and and that’s critical to find out what they want to contribute to what programs interest them so that they are used in the best of the best are definitely yes, i’d say that’s true, absolutely. On the sort of on the more personal side of know your mom has been and important mentor for you say, say something about that, my mother, my mother jokes that she works for me, and i joke that i worked for her. I think it goes both ways. Sometimes i see we actually have been running her one two, one youth mentoring program since nineteen ninety four. She had started it in the early eighties, she’s truly a national pioneer and the mentoring movement, and, uh and believes in it passionately and developed an excellent model that is still used today. Um, she started it in the early eighties in new york state schools to lower the dropout rate and focused on foster care aged out. You and we’ve been able to maintain and nurture and grow that model since nineteen ninety four into mentoring yusa, which is delivering services in eleven markets around the country and really thrives on partnership because, of course, it’s, a volunteer mentoring program, we work closely with the corporate community and community organizations. The model is expert in training mentors, so very good at the engagement piece of bringing a volunteer in working. With them improving their skills and then managing and, uh, providing support for that volunteer. Want one it’s very special mentoring partnership. What would you, uh, would you say you’ve learned most important you’ve learned from your mom? Oh my gosh, she is remarkable still today at i won’t sit well, she loves being a tea, so i can say that she absolutely loves being eighty and celebrated it now she’s more than eighty and she is just a dynamo. She contributes to the program significantly, strategically, operationally still, and i’ve learned everything about how to well, i’ve learned everything really about what voluntarism means from her she’s always prized that word that term, we don’t use it much in our non-profits space, i think to an extent it becomes the notion of volunteering just becomes part of what you do, right? And we were working with volunteer constituents. We don’t often value their contribution of giving personal time and making that commitment, which really is a very special special make perhaps the most special sort of contribution, and she values and prize is it reminds me to respect it and honor it all the time. How did you learn? That that ethic growing up, she was always doing it, and she always no matter what you know her period of life. Wass but, you know, as a young age, she had us out you no selling daffodils for american cancer society, and this spring, i mean, i had no idea what even wasit was so young, you know, we sort of just followed her along, like her ducklings and all her various activities, whether it was, you know, school, church, american cancer society, other you no other formidable non-profit efforts always service oriented, and then, of course, in her work with my father, their mission was service, of course, that their lives have been dedicated to public service. And how can we pay this forward to the next generation of non-profit ceos? You know, i think that you i think for every non-profits ceo on dh through the staff line and the board lines, you know, again, i think that people, especially here in our community, i think people really, um, value and respect what they’re doing, they’re making a clear choice, making a clear choice to work in a non-profit environment, everybody knows that most likely you’re going to make more money in the private sector. So you’re you’re making a choice, you’re making a sacrifice and i believe that’s because you’re a person of mission and and, you know that passion it’s what allows you to do the best work? And and how can we be good role models for the for the next-gen coming, the next generation, i think, is to, you know, it’s summertime, we all have this valuable prized interns it’s, you know, include them, include them in the work, really mentor them the mentoring, uh, mentorship we can all provide now at this point in our careers is really very, very important and valuable. Um, and i think we could do that with our co workers with our young leaders is to just, you know, really be their share with them and support them and there’s often a lot that we can learn from those were mentor from the mission, yes, we need to stay sharp, yeah, in things that they’re much better versed in. Yeah, and that doesn’t only mean social media and technology, but we’re going to talk about that in the bigger discussion miree anything you want to leave, leave. Viewers listeners with around the value of of of a relationship on gets its report lies as supposed the relationship with are your viewers, our listeners today, that non-profit initiatives work because of public support, that it’s it’s, not just the small universe that we design and interact with, but it is the greater community, and that we need the support. We need the interest of the greater community. Teo, please follow us. Watch us think about how you can contribute and be apart of the work. Thank you very much. Thank you for sharing your expertise and your experience. Fremery in-kind. I’d like to open up tio to a real group discussion. Who wants to share a story of a mentor? That was that was important to you. Excellent. Yeah, linda. Miree treyz i don’t want to put you on the spot to single someone out, because then that’s. Not fair. But i’m sure women all know who you’re. They all know who you’re talking about. Oh, there you go. Your strategy. No. Yeah. Hyre wells was the share. Ah, a story from someone who was important to your influential to you. Maybe not. A formal may not have been a formal mentor. Mentee, please. Thanks, michelle. Hyre it sounds like randy was always there for you, either formally or informally, right on the record or off the record. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you. Thanks, michelle. How about others? Anybody on the left side of the room? One somebody who was important. Police wonder what about a special project? Four. Introduce yourself, please. I want the special projects report issue i want with outside consultant had been a corporate person for a very long time. This this particular opportunity was really fairly new for me, and he was really great at a kind of coaching me counseling me on a lot of some of the things that we needed to do some of the things you expect because it was very successful, whether there would be what panels or or other things that you would be invited, too, because i was a person who worked on the project and he was just very generous with his thoughts about what was going to happen next, what to expect and something sounding board to kind of know how to respond sometimes wasn’t a formal mentor, like lots of programs with someone somewhere else is mental, but it’s just sort of up a relationship that you kind of developed with somebody because you seem to have some sort of kinship and they’re just going to be generals with heimans thoughts just trying to help you go in the right direction and help successful and that’s really important. So whether it’s an organization like this or whether it’s i’m something should happen to work outside, those people kind of help you shape your life. What do you make a really excellent point about us having to be open to these kinds of relationships? You just never know who the next person is going to be. That khun, you know, help in a small way, helping a really long term, valuable way the way wanda and michelle are talking about. We just have to be open to these. And they’re not as you said, wanted. Not always formal. Not always. This person is assigned to you a lot of times, right? People just come into our lives, and i think we need to be open tio to the possibilities. Uh, you know, holly, please. Good morning, falik connick, vice president, accounting company. Listening to maria talked about her mom and i heard a top about her mom before. It reminds me when i grow up. Grew up in the early sixties. I know it stays. When all my friends mom’s home, you know, and she was having and i was having dinner with my baby sitter, my mom was always working. I wasn’t a very well child. I had a lot of healthy hands. I always thought that when i got older, my life would be a little limited with what i could do with my career. And my mom used to always say to me, holly, when somebody tells you that you can’t do something, you just keep keep going at it and you just keep going at it on my mom today, next week, could you usedto work continues to try heimans you’re so crap, because i’ve been where i have been for twenty five, you’re like the rest of you being in the non-profit morning in-kind mama’s variety has nothing that i haven’t been able to in all my years and so on. My mentor holly. Thank you, it’s. Very touching, thanks very much. Stephen colbert. I don’t know if any of you saw this brooke broke character, which i don’t know if it’s impressive probably is unprecedented broke his his character on is on the show for the first four minutes. I think it was two days ago wednesday to pay tribute to his mom, who just died. I do. That was so touching. You know, he is the guy. I mean, i’ve seen him live and he, you know, it’s very rarely breaks character, but i hear him to see him do that. That was special in itself. And then just the words no r hyre very special tribute. So, thanks a lot. Thanks for sharing my thanks to everybody at that shared interest group of se e the executive women in non-profits there was a very, very lovely and times touching meeting. A lot of the women shared some very poignant stories, and i appreciate that it was it was really lovely to be there. And so my thanks to you, everyone there i gotta live listener love before we take this break. Tons of people in new york, freeport, new york, new york, new york, hicksville, new york’s a long island two out of three long island newport, north carolina. I’m going to be there soon. Reston, virginia and oregon lake oswego. I wonder if it’s amy live listener love to everybody, though. Is that those that’s everybody? In the u s but continuing in north america reinardy mexico. Welcome, live, listen, love to you and going further south. Campiness, brazil. Welcome. Lots of visitors in asia will get to them. Right now. We go away for a couple seconds when we come back. Tony’s, take two, and then amy sample ward on tumbler tactics. Stay with me e-giving thinking, shooting, getting, thinking things, you’re listening to the talking, alternate network waiting to get in. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Latto if you have big ideas and an average budget tune. Tony martin. Any non-profit radio we dio i’m jonah helper, nari team in co founders of next-gen charity dahna welcome back that gentleman whose voice you heard say you’re listening to talking alternative broadcasting he’s from australia and i just met him about a half an hour ago. He was in studio he’s, now a buddhist monk. I don’t know what his name is now, but at the time that he that recording he was his name was giorgio rivetti. I don’t know. I don’t know what he uses now, it’s sam says he still uses george over petty so he’s but he’s but he’s provoc rah george, your petty a buddhist monk um, more live listener love, asia gotta hit asia hard. Lots of listeners in seoul, south korea, thank you very much. And also in sioux on korea live listener love to everyone in korea on your haserot fuck uac of japan in chino, maya, japan and tokyo welcome live listener love, konichiwa, it’s, time for tony’s take two there’s this myth going around non-profits i’ve heard it for many years as someone who does planned e-giving consulting and that is that if you have someone in your organization who has planned giving in their title, then you’ve got planned, giving covered it’s taken care of and what that full short when that title is shared with some other title like i’ve seen director of annual giving and planned e-giving i’ve seen director of major gifts and planned e-giving i’ve seen foundation and planned giving fund-raising, and the problem becomes that any of those things or others that plan giving might be paired with in one person’s job responsibilities job spec is that everything will take priority over planned e-giving because anything that you pair it with will have more immediate deadlines that’s especially true in annual giving any e-giving sometimes has weekly production goals and certainly monthly, but anything you pair it with, it’ll have more immediate deadlines, and it’ll be more immediate cash to the organization because planned e-giving is cash to the charity at the donor’s death, in most cases, a couple of exceptions, but most it’s at the donor’s death. So the other thing that the plan giving his paired with is always going to take precedence and it’s going to get a lot more time than the proportional representation it has in the title. So if it’s half the title, it’ll probably get about five percent of the time if it’s a third of the title, i have seen it paired with two other things once it’ll probably get two percent of the time. So just because you have planned giving in someone’s title, you don’t have plan giving covered for your non-profit that’s not on my block at tony martignetti dot com this week, it will be, but it’s not, i wanted to just raise it irrespective of it not being on the block and that is tony’s take two for friday, nineteenth of july twenty ninth show of the year. I’m having a hard time believing it’s nineteenth of july amy sample ward is with me you know her high i love so having a hard time believing it’s the nineteen no kidding, but you’re not supposed to talk yet. I didn’t give you the proper introduction. Oh my gosh, yeah, i blew it! She’s, the ceo at non-profit technology network and ten her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement, her blog’s that amy sample, ward dot or ge? And on twitter she’s at amy r s ward. Welcome amy sample aboard hello, we’re talking about tumbler today, but you’re out and you’re out in oregon in the portland area. I am. I think that live listener out in oregon was not me. It must be someone else related. Lake, we go. Oh, it is oswego, not a wego. Okay, oswego. Thank you. You’ve corrected me in the past about pronouncing oregon, which i have now. It’s ah, weak a sweet go. Thank you. But you are in portland proper. Is that true? Yes. Panepento office eyes right downtown. Okay. The city of roses i found yes, sophie of roses. Even have a rose festival and a rose garden. Yes, i don’t. You have a research rose garden upon a mountain? I think i read. So you’re the city of roses in in the beaver state. Excellent. Exactly. Okay, we’re talking about tumbler this month. Yeah, you know, way whenever we talk about specific social media channels or how to use the social tools, i feel like you and i always get back, teo, at least a couple of minutes talking about staffing. And i thought that was so appropriate after your take two today. Because whether it’s fund-raising or you know any of the other kind of tools and communications that we’ve talked about on the show before, just because someone has a title does not mean that is the only person that could do that work or that is responsible for that work. So, you know, today talking about tumbler think it gets categorized into ah, blawg, you know, because it kind of functions and that that’s the way the content operates, but that doesn’t mean that just because you have a staff person who normally puts content onto your website that they’re the person that’s now going to be managing if you have a tumbler account, you know, it has to be based on what we need outside the organization is who’s reading that content? Where is the content coming from? On dh, how do you deliver that? Not whose title inside of the organization is tumbler manager, you know? Yeah, i see tumbler often called a microblogging site, and i don’t really think that does it justice it’s it’s so much more than what what people think of is blogging. So i think the first thought when you see that description is not going to be as rich’s tumbler really is. Yeah, that’s a great point, i mean the description of it as a micro blogging is trying to be objective about how the content works because it does like a block have, you know, each post going chronologically, and you can put your content in their etcetera and it’s, you know, a static kind of place, but i’ve finally seen over the last few months, people really recognizing that tumbler is a social platform, not necessarily like a social network in the way that you think of facebook, for example, but the purpose of it is social. When allison and i were doing research on the kinds of user demographics of all different major social platforms, when we were putting the book together, one thing that surprised us too see written down is the number but didn’t surprise us from the qualitative experience side is that the majority of tumblers content is re blogged, meaning i posted something on my tumbler and you liked it and you, you know, re posted it onto your tumblr like a re pending on pinterest, yeah, so if we’re retweet into him, has to be a social platform if all the content is getting shared around and the purpose, you know. Of having your tumbler is kind of like, um, it’s a little bit if you want to think about it, like pinteresque, where you’re there and engaging and checking out other people’s content because you’re kind of curating your space, you know? And and that means you’re going to pull from all different users because you’re creating this one, you know, tumbler account that that’s all on your topic or whatever you do, you want to say so? It’s definitely social and i think that’s why organizations, they’re starting to realize it may have a role in their content plan and their community engagement plan because it isn’t just one more place for their randomly posting content. You know, there are people really engaged there, okay? And it’s also visual there’s a big visual content, which reminds me of pinterest and a little bit of facebook, facebook is pretty visual, too heimans has that beyond you know what? What you’d think of if you hear microblogging has this visual aspect, yeah, exactly. And so there’s there’s so many visual type platforms now that are gaining tons of popularity, we saw that huge spike in adoption for a pinterest but now we’re also seen instagram and vine and then instagrams video because of vine, so these this focus on pictures or really short videos and wanting to engage, you know, around a visual piece of content less so that the traditional kind of a block post where your you’ve written out some tacks on and i think what’s great about tumbler, is that it is such a hybrid, you know, it isn’t like pinterest where it is just going to be photos all over the place, and just by the functionality of the tool, the text is often kind of hidden or rolled up, you know, you have to click on it to see what the caption may have been or what the comments were it’s really trying to be photo first or a blogger where it’s obviously text first, so tumbler kind of merges them together where the photos are really prominent or video or whatever you’ve posted there, but it doesn’t hide whatever text you do include also sort of like twitter it’s it’s pretty quick moving too? Yeah, for sure i mean both from the user sample, you know it’s pretty easy, tio, if you have the app. On your phone or you’re doing it from the web, you know, just post that quick photo. It integrates with lots of platforms so people could be auto posting to tumbler every time they, you know, save content somewhere else. But as faras the digesting of that content inside the followers of your tumbler, i mean, tumbler just has really high numbers as faras people, you know, total engaged users, active users, users, they log in regularly, but also people, you know, using the mobile site, checking at multiple times a day to follow along. So it is fast moving, i think because people keep checking it. And so then people want to keep adding to it all the time. We have just about a minute before we go away for a couple minutes. Let’s talk a little about the engagement around conversations to and what non-profits should be could be looking for around their issues. Yeah, i think it’s tumbler is an interesting channel and we can talk more about this after the break. You? But i think there’s there’s two riel opportunities one is toe kind of, you know, own own account. Creating the count. Make it very clearly, your organization’s account and manage it. The other avenue to go is to support your community members or a superfan or ah, long time volunteer or even donor-centric area, because it’s their personal passion and just supporting them. Managing that account, whether that sending them, you know, content or news, they’re great photos or pointing people their way, you know, using it as a as a spotlight. So and then you’re just kind of sending stuff their way, but you’re not directly managing it. So i think there’s two, two ofthe avenues to go. Okay, we’re gonna take that break, and when we come back, of course, i mean, now keep talking about tumbler tactics and stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. We got more live listener love ryan from washington, d c first time listener. Welcome to the show. Thanks for tweeting. Hangzhou, china, ni hao and hong kong welcome live listener love to everybody listening like, oh, we got more in the u s laguna woods, california and is it lee hae l e h i utah welcome live listener loved when we were all over the country love it, love it. Maybe sample would you bring in you bring lots of listeners. It’s amazing. Yeah. Imagine if you actually promoted the fact that you’re on the show. No, you promote. I’m joking. Okay, so we got lots of alternative zoho before we continue, i have to give credit. Tio actually, the new york city affiliative end ten, which is five o one tech. And why? And i see five point check. N y c. Yes, i was at their meeting last night, and amanda mccormick spoke about tumbler, so i got a i got sort of a last minute education from amanda mccormick was very smart about tumbler, and you’ll find amanda at jelly bean boom dot com jelly bean boom dot com. I want to give her a shout because she helped educate me for today’s segment. Um, okay, so we have this different ways you were suggesting of managing or of joining conversations, but i think isn’t that really the interest that non-profits would have if they’re not in tumbler, is to find conversations that are about their issues? Oh, definitely and i think, you know, some organizations have found that when they tried tio jump into temblor, see who may be out there already talking about their topic or, you know, be a passionate person in that cause area they found again because tumbler is such a sharing re posting culture that there were people where they maybe had a post that was really passionate or had a striking image. But then when you scroll down to their next one it’s on a totally different topic on, so it wasn’t as, you know, it wasn’t like there were tumbler accounts being managed by individuals where the whole focus of it was that cause area, because again, if you’re looking for individuals, well, individuals have more than one interest and it’s the same as if you were to, you know, look through a facebook, but you’re going to see people post him out all different things they care about. So if you do want to go find those conversations that already happening it’s important to remember that you may not be finding a specific tumbler post that is reflective of an entire tumbler account being focused on that issue, you know, and trying to away where tio jump in, or who may be just posted it because it was provocative versus who’s really passionate about that topic. Now, to help with this, the tumbler does have hashtags. Yeah. So if you find hashtags related to your the conversations that impact your issues, you could you could pass those along. You couldn’t pass along the individual posts? Yes, exactly. Okay, but not necessarily the entire person. Although you might, you know, it’s it’s hard to tell. In fact, there was someone at the meeting yesterday who expressed concern about exactly what you’re talking about, that ah lot of the conversation, a lot of people in a conversation around her issue, which was, um e-giving a transportation alternative to prevent gender based attacks at night. You know, those people like you said they’re multidemensional there people, and they weren’t always talking about things. That the organization was comfortable referring its its supporters too. Okay, so just, you know, an example. Of what you’re saying now for charities to get started, there are there are templates like themed templates sort of like wordpress has yeah, exactly i would like to say a little more than you can jump in, you know, i think what a lot of the social platforms have have shown people is that we’ve we continue to get further and further away from the super designed and mohr into the simple. So a lot of tumblr account that you will find whether it’s an actual organization, you know, that has has created that channel or an individual’s simpler is the way to go, you know, having a very clear or maybe funny or provocative or what have you title and sub header on the account, but the design doesn’t need to have this, you know, beautiful kind of gray scale background photo with all of these other, you know, buttons and labels it’s meant to be focused on the content, so just having a very clean, simple design so that the content and those especially if it is photos or videos, they really just pop out and the question just flooded my mind, okay? The so you can you khun brand it, but it doesn’t have to be it doesn’t to be super branded and super elegant is it’s more about the content? If someone if a charity wants to get involved and start a tumbler account and make that for a, how much should they expect to be participating? How maney posts or or re re posts? Should they be doing in a day? Let’s say, orlando, i’m not necessarily today like maybe in a week or something like that? Yeah, i mean, i think that magic number question is the same, you know, with any with setting up a facebook page or sending up a twitter account, you know you’re gonna have to test out and find what that magic number is for your organization and for your community. The important piece isn’t necessarily how frequently but it’s that it is constant, you know, like it is every weekday if you’re going to commit to one today or you know it is every month it’s regular so that people don’t come and see that you posted ten things all on friday, the nineteenth and then you don’t post anything and tell august first, you know it. Isn’t that there’s a look? There’s nineteen great post here, whatever, but that it’s a regular so that your logging in you’re saying what’s going on on dh, just like twitter, it can’t just be you posting when it’s such a social platform, you need to be searching using hashtags or, you know, looking for different users and finding those posts that are great and reese posting them. So just like on twitter, you know those accounts that are always just pushing things out? Well, there’s not a lot of engagement there, but when you start retweeting other people and replying to other people, you know, you create more of a loop for engagement, sharing, participating, engaging all the things we’ve talked about on all the different platforms we’ve talked about, all right? We’re going to get their sample ward, thank you very much. Sure, you’ll find amy at amy, sample ward, dot or ge, and on twitter she’s at amy r s ward next week event leadership honorees, chairs and committees recruiting, motivating and working with event volunteers. It’s another fund-raising day interview from this past june, and jean takagi returns he’s, our legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Have you looked at our youtube channel there? I have over eighty interviews there and a couple of standup comedy clips. The youtube channel is riel tony martignetti insert sponsor message over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities. Listen, each week you can reach me on the block. If you’d like to talk about sponsoring the show. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz, his line producer, shows social media is by regina walton, of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday, one to two eastern at talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com hyre. Dahna you didn’t even think that shooting getting, thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Take it. You could are you a female entrepreneur ready to break through? Join us at sixty body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday, said noon eastern time to learn tips and juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Soul. Every thursday ad, men in new york times on talking alternative dot com. 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