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Nonprofit Radio for July 3, 2020: Thought Leadership & Content Strategy

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My Guests:

Peter Panepento & Antionette Kerr: Thought Leadership
Peter Panapento and Antionette Kerr co-authored the book, “Modern Media Relations for Nonprofits.” They share their insights on how to build relationships with journalists so you get heard as the thought leader you are. Plus other media strategies, like crisis communications. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)






Valerie Johnson & Katie Green: Content Strategy
Now that you’re an established thought leader, you need to produce multichannel content that’s relevant, engaging, actionable, user friendly and SEO friendly. Our 20NTC coverage continues as Valerie Johnson from Pathways to Housing PA and Katie Green with The Trevor Project show you how.





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[00:02:40.94] spk_0:
welcome to tony-martignetti non proper radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with epidermal Asus below PSA if you gave me the blistering news that you missed Today’s show Thought leadership. Peter Pan, A Pento and Antoinette Car co authored the book Modern Media Relations for Non Profits. They share their insights on how to build relationships with journalists. So you get heard as the Thought Leader you are, plus other media strategies like crisis Communications. This is part of our 20 NTC coverage. Also content strategy. Now that you’re an established thought leader, you need to produce multi channel content that’s relevant. Also engaging actionable, user friendly and S e o friendly. Our 20 NTC coverage continues as Valerie Johnson from Pathways to Housing P A and Katie Green with the Trevor Project show you how on Tony’s Take two Dismantling racism were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and, by turn to communications PR and content for non profits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Here is a thought leadership. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020 non profit technology conference. We were supposed to be in Baltimore. The conference was canceled, but non profit radio is persevering, virtually getting lots and lots of the very smart speakers. We’re, ah, gonna be part of the conference. We’re sponsored at NTC by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in for a free 60 day trial with me now our Peter Pan a Pento and Antoinette car. Peter is philanthropic practice leader at Turn two Communications Internet is part of leadership team of women, Advance and CEO of Bold and bright Media. They are the co authors of the book Modern Media Relations for non Profits. Peter, Internet. Welcome.

[00:02:59.99] spk_1:
Great to be here. Virtually.

[00:03:11.74] spk_0:
Yes. I’m glad we could work this out among the three of us. Thank you. And, uh, it’s good to know that you reach well and safe in your respective locations. Okay.

[00:03:12.63] spk_1:
Thank you. Social distancing and full effect. Yes.

[00:03:42.02] spk_0:
Okay. Yes, I see no one within six feet of you. That’s good. Even though you are home. Um, we’re talking about thought leadership and media. Um let’s ah, let’s start with you. Internet. Um weaken weaken usar leverages to thought leadership and sort of ah, used the media to ah, to influence our ah influence are those who are engaged with us, our constituents, and even influence policy.

[00:04:27.40] spk_2:
So the media needs Experts and nonprofits are on the ground there doing the work. And they are the perfect votes to be experts in this conversation in particular and emergency Peter non talks about earlier about crisis communications in a lot of situations, the media scrambling looking for experts if you have establish yourself as a thought leader, which is what you should aspire to do, I know that turn to does the work and helping people to kind of establish themselves the thought leader in this conversation. But right now we need people with good information and who can provide great stories, for example. And nonprofits can do that and they can do that work. And that’s why that that leadership conversations important most non profit don’t see themselves needing to do that. It’s not the first thing we think about. We think about fundraising, right? Um, but not necessarily Media friend raising. And so now the time that you want to have those relationships and be considered as a leader,

[00:05:10.94] spk_0:
because when there’s news that relates to your mission, um, your call is more likely to be taken. Your email is more likely be answered if there’s that preexisting relationship you mentioned. But if if everybody in the sector is calling a LH the over media blindly, then it’s just sort of, ah, crapshoot whether they answer you or not.

[00:06:44.14] spk_2:
Or if you think about the media needing like, you know, going Teoh crisis example like the media needing a source or an expert and they don’t want to quote the same person, that’s, you know something that I’ve learned from my media background and training. I’ve been working as a journalist since 1995 and you know one thing that my editors say, you know, don’t quote the same person, don’t quote the same organization. So in a crisis people will call Big Box. It’s not profit sometimes, um, and they’ll just see them as being the experts for a conversation. And that’s why establishing yourself as a thought leader is so important. So someone can say, You know, I’m a unique voice about this. We have an example in our book Modern Media Relations, where someone who on organization that worked with Children and families involved in domestic violence, became very important in the conversation when a professional athlete in Georgia was convicted of family violence and all of a sudden that person was called upon to be on radio shows and talk shows and they became a thought leader. But they say done the work to position themselves is an expert. And so I know. Peter, you I know you have some examples as well, but we just got a dived in there and didn’t talk about the whole broad concept of about leadership. Well,

[00:06:44.59] spk_0:
all right. What? Um, Peter, I was gonna ask you how do we start to build these relationships? Um, you want toe? I don’t want to back up. What thought leadership is

[00:08:29.44] spk_1:
sure I’ll start with thought. Leadership defined. And that and that’s really the process of establishing ones expertise. And it’s been a specific area and and doing it in a way where they are recognized beyond their own organization in their own kind of immediate networks. As our as an expert, as a thought leader, somebody who is driving the conversation and really, really helping people better understand Ah, key issue or a topic eso for a non profit or a foundation. A thought leader might be your CEO, Um, who are executive directors, somebody who is at the front lines on dhe kind of is in a in a position where they, um not only have expertise, but they have some authority and being able to talk with some gravitas about a topic. Um, but in order to kind of establish your credentials there on get recognized, you have to do some legwork beyond just having that expertise you have to be. You have to be comfortable talking about that topic you have. Teoh. You have to spend some time kind of building the relationships and the and the and the the larger credibility that you are, somebody who has something interesting to say and the expertise to back it up. Um, and the more you do that and you can do that, not just through the media but through your own channels and through speaking at conferences and all kinds of other things. Um, the more you do that, the more you kind of become, ah, somebody who is recognized and is called upon to weigh in on important topics, or or when news events call for it or in a situation like what? Where we are now with with the Cove in 19 response. Somebody who can kind of come in and bring ah, voice of reason and perspective. Toe What’s going on around us?

[00:09:36.34] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As Changes to Paycheck Protection Program Loan Forgiveness There have been many wegner had and up to date free wedding. Are you missed it? Fret not. Go to wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource is and recorded events. Now back to thought Leadership with Peter Pan, a Pento and Antoinette car, you have to lay the groundwork. There has to be some fundamentals, and you have to have your gravitas, and you need to appear bonified and be bonified, not just appear. You have to be bona fide on the topic that you’re that you’re an expert in the mission of your your non profit. How do you. Then start to when you have that groundwork. How do you then start to build relationships when there isn’t really a need for you to be talking about the subject?

[00:10:39.09] spk_1:
Sure. Um, there are a lot of ways to do that. One, is that you? You start to build some personal relationships with media who are covering these topics, and you can do that either Through You know, somebody on your communications team that helps you or you can kind of do it yourself. But you can. You can start to show up in in their coverage of stories by, um, by positioning yourself and building relationships with individual reporters, maybe even when they don’t need you by having an informational coffee or call so that they can get to know you and know what you stand for. You could do it by your through your own writing and public speaking and making those things available and accessible to the media. Um, and you can you can do it through your own channels to a lot of nonprofits have logs. They have. They have their own podcast. They have different ways where they’re positioning their internal experts externally. So that they were kind of talking about in establishing their credentials around around a subject. And

[00:10:51.39] spk_0:
that’s your That’s your owned media, right? You’re your own media reverses earned media.

[00:10:56.80] spk_1:
Yes, yes. And the value of that is that the more you’re you’re kind of demonstrating through your own to media channels, your expertise. You’re not only building some greater relationships and credibility with your donors and the folks who are already kind of in your network, but you start to show up when people are doing searches, or when people are on social media and seeing stories and articles that air getting passed around. If they may see something you’ve written or talked about, shared in another network, and it sparks a light for them that you’re somebody worth going back to when they need, um, when they need some, you know somebody like you to weigh in on something

[00:12:00.68] spk_0:
good. Peter, I know you and Internet are both former journalists. Uh, I’m gonna jump over the Internet for what? Internet What? What do these outreach, I guess calls and emails to journalists to try to build the relationship. Uh, what do they what they looked like? What would you suggest people are saying to to try to get the attention, um, to build the relationship, Not not when I’m looking to be quoted because there’s a breaking news, but to build the

[00:13:43.62] spk_2:
relationship before him. So full disclosure. I’m a current journalist. Um, so current? Yes, eso I still work for publications right now, okay. And so people contact me on Twitter and social media, which is a new thing. We talk about press releases. I’m a big fan of press releases. Yes, just full disclosure about that. But I still like for people to pitch me on social media direct messages through Twitter. If I’m using my company profile, it’s safe for Don profits to contact me and say, Hey, I have a story. I noticed that you’re interested in this concept. It’s always great when people know what I’m interested in. Like when they’re like I noticed that you publish a lot of stories. Like, right now I’m working on a story, a series of stories about missing and murdered indigenous women. And so when people see Owen notice you’re publishing stories about this and they pitch me on a direct message or um, through Facebook, message or even and say, Hey, would you consider this story? And here’s the angle, um, or have you thought about you know, I’ve had other people reach out and say, I noticed your publishing these types of stories about, you know, missing and murdered indigenous women. Have you considered other stories about violence against women? And it’s always a really great connection for me. So I think just kind of knowing what the journalist is interested in is really important kind of understanding their angle. Are you, um, understanding their angle and just flowing from there and saying, you know, here’s how we fit into this conversation is always a

[00:13:53.83] spk_0:
wonder. And so, um, so outreach by any of the social channels is is fine to you. Talk about Twitter and direct message Facebook. Those are all

[00:14:06.95] spk_2:
yes. And people tagging me like I feel like if a journalist is using their profile in a way that is professional, then you’re safe to contact them and okay, bam And that

[00:14:21.24] spk_0:
Okay? Yeah, yeah, Peter, Anything you want to add to? Yeah,

[00:15:39.87] spk_1:
I think that I think Japan that is done on about making sure, though, that when you do that you are, You are you’re you’re not coming with something that’s off the reporters beat or off of what’s up? What you know is what they cover or the type of story they cover within. That be, um you could spend a lot of effort reaching out to every journalist you see on Twitter about your specific cause. But if they don’t cover your cause, it doesn’t relate to what they what they dio. Then they’re probably they’re going to ignore you or or start to block you because you’re you’re kind of almost spamming them. So, um, it’s it’s important to be targeted with who you reach out to as well, and make sure that you understand that journalists and their work before you before you do your outreach and come at them with a pitch that they don’t necessarily want. So, yes, I think it’s really important to to do a bit of that homework upfront, um, and respect that journalist time. And if you do that and if you come at them with something that is actually on on their beat and is of interest to them, um, then I think you have a much greater chance of getting their attention and getting them to want to follow up with you and help further the relationship. Beyond that initial pitch

[00:16:58.35] spk_2:
talking can, I would share a pet peeve like to pet peeves, actually. And, um, if I write about a non profit and they don’t share the story on their own social, it’s just it’s heartbreaking for me. A lot of times I have to fight for these stories to appear and after fight with an editor to say, This is why this is newsworthy. This needs to be here. And then the non profit really doesn’t share the story. And I think, Well, you know, I don’t write for my own, you know, just deport not to be shared. Um, And then the other thing is, I love when nonprofits support stories that aren’t related to their particular story. So I’ll start noticing, like one thing, um, Kentucky non profit network, for example. Before they ever shared or were involved in anything that I was involved in, they started sharing things or liking things that I would publish as a reporter, and I didn’t know anything about them, but I thought that was interesting. So that when they pitched something. Then you’re more likely to notice it. Because as a reporter, you’re more likely to notice because you feel like they’re really genuinely interested in a conversation, even if it doesn’t apply to them. You’re so interested.

[00:17:01.63] spk_0:
Internet. Where are you writing now?

[00:17:19.41] spk_2:
I am writing working on a piece for guardian. I am from the Guardian am writing for women Advance which we have our own network. And then I write for Halifax Media Group Publications. So I’m on the regional circuit doing all the fun things.

[00:17:25.84] spk_0:
Okay? Halifax is Nova Scotia.

[00:17:39.14] spk_2:
No, Halifax is, ah, media group in the United States. Okay, Okay. They own a series of their own regional newspapers across the country. So, um, let’s talk a little

[00:17:47.28] spk_0:
about crisis management. You wonder, can you get us started with, uh, how you might, um, approach crisis communications? Internet?

[00:18:13.03] spk_2:
I thought that was Peter’s question. No, I’m just getting a crisis communications, I think, actually, Peter is a really great person to talk about this. My crisis communications conversation really has shifted with what we’re going through. So I don’t want to make it so unique to our current situation. So I let Peter start and then Peter, I could back you up on it.

[00:20:06.39] spk_1:
I’m happy. Eso crisis communications. It’s really important to not wait until the actual you’re actually in a crisis to put your plan together. It’s really important to have a protocol that you’ve set up when you’re not in the middle of a crisis of possible to really kind of put together some protocols for not only what you’re going to say, but who’s going to say it and how you’re going to communicate during that situation. So what does that protocol look like? One. Is that you up front? You designate who you are spokesperson or spokespeople are going to be ahead of time. Um, and you spend some time ahead of that coaching them up in terms of what some of the key messages for your organization are, regardless of what the crisis might be. Some things that you would broadly want to try to reinforce and kind of a mood and ah, tone that you’re gonna want to take with what you’re talking about. Um, do that 1st 2nd is that you would really want to have a system in place for how you activate that for how you activate your crisis plan and your crisis communications. So that essentially means that you want to, um, you want Teoh. Make sure that, you know, kind of who? Who needs to sign off on what you’re going to talk about, who you’re gonna be involving in your decisions on whether you need to put out a statement who, ah, how you’re going to communicate in what different channels, the more you can make those decisions ahead of time and have your structure in place, the better equipped. You aren’t actually respond during a crisis situation and be able to get up quick and accurate. And, ah, positive message out in in a situation and often crises or not, they’re crises because they’re not expected. But you could be planning ahead so that you you are able to react quickly and a full authoritatively during that situation.

[00:20:34.02] spk_0:
You’re calm pounding the crisis if you’re not prepared. Absolutely. I’m scrambling to figure out who’s in charge, who has to approve messages. Where should messages go? All which are peripheral to the to the substance of the problem?

[00:21:38.12] spk_1:
Absolutely. And in today’s world, where crises can really mushroom, not only in the media, but on social media. The longer year allowing time to pass before you’re getting out there with with your statement and bonds to it the worst, uh, the worse the situation gets for you. So you really need to position yourselves to be able to respond quickly to respond clearly and to respond accurately. Um, and it’s important to know that you know that planning ahead of time is really critical. But what you say in this situation is also critical to you Do want to make sure that you communicate truthfully. That doesn’t necessarily mean that um uh, you, uh you, um, reveal everything. Reveal everything exactly. But they do. That you do reveal is accurate. It’s not going back to bite you later. Sleep. People

[00:21:45.19] spk_0:
talk about complicating the complicating the crisis. If you’re lying or misleading, it comes back. I mean, people investigate things get found out. You

[00:21:49.55] spk_1:
absolutely. And I was

[00:21:51.94] spk_0:
rhythmically expanded. Your problem?

[00:23:09.21] spk_1:
Absolutely. And you’d be surprised how, How many times when I was a journalist that people, if they had just come clean and kind of got the truth out there right away, they may have taken a short term hit, but their lives would have cut on fine after that. But the more you try to often office Kate or or lie about the situation or or try to spin it in a way where you’re you’re kind of hiding the truth, that the worst your situation is going to get eso Bubi in a position to be as transparent and clear and accurate as possible. Um, with that first statement, uh, knowing that in some cases you might have to say, You know, we don’t know, But we’ll follow up when we do know, because sometimes ah, crisis situation is one in which, speaking of one we’re in now, we don’t know all of the all of the different twists and turns. The cove in 19 situation is going to take So but but rather than trying to speculate, or or or in some cases as we’ve seen, some some public figures do try Teoh, spend this one way or another rather than just saying, Here’s the situation. Here are concerns. Here’s what we know. Here’s what we don’t know. It compounds the situation and in some cases that it could be dangerous to people.

[00:23:15.16] spk_0:
Internet. You wanna do you want to back up a little bit?

[00:23:52.09] spk_2:
I did it so that I think the statement, um I love how people are putting forward Thes Cove in 19 states, and I think we need to have more statements like that. I mean, these statements are demanding and people feel like that, but I’m like we could do more of that. We could have statements as non profit on issues on public issues, public concerns, things that are emerging, an urgent for people I think about in the eastern part of North Carolina. Because, tony, I know you’re in Home State.

[00:23:53.44] spk_0:
I’m in eastern North Carolina,

[00:24:47.98] spk_2:
happy to have you here. And when we have hurricanes, when we have issues like that, if non profits would put out statements like they have with come in 19 if they felt like they needed to say, Here’s where we are, here’s what we do here here’s Here’s what we have to offer before during after and just update them. You know, I feel like this crisis has brought forward a level of communication and help people to see the necessary level of communication that we need the hat, but we don’t have that. All the time is non profits, and people are looking for that. So I feel like in the eastern part of North Carolina, where we had, um, you know, 100 year hurricanes within three months of each other that didn’t think what happened. You know, it is people what people made covet statements like that. I mean, what if people And so I’m just gonna start comin covitz statements, Peter, that I don’t have a better to report. But what if we felt like we needed to make these types of statements when there’s an emergency and interesting.

[00:25:05.24] spk_0:
Thank you. Um, Internet. I’m gonna ask you to wrap up with something that you said, which is contrary to a lot of what I hear. Uh, you said that you’re a big fan of press releases.

[00:25:15.48] spk_2:
I am.

[00:25:16.25] spk_0:
Could you take us out with your rationale for why you’re a big fan of them? I’ve heard that they’re pretty much obsolete

[00:25:23.54] spk_2:
from a journalist

[00:25:29.81] spk_0:
from a country. No right guest of that. I

[00:25:31.14] spk_2:
believe that. I believe that s Oh, yes, because I’ve been reading press releases for a long time and I feel like the who, What, when, Where and how gets me past that part of it. Then I can ask you all the interesting questions. So if you can give me that in a way that I can cut and paste and I will not. But you’re someone’s name like this Bill tony.

[00:25:54.71] spk_0:
More than more at risk

[00:26:15.51] spk_2:
it might be. It might be a challenge so I could weaken. Get all of that out of the way. But a good press release gets me excited. As a journalist. It brings me into the conversation, and if you aren’t excited about your press release, I can probably tell on the other end. So I had a good press release.

[00:26:17.24] spk_0:
All right, thank you. We’ll leave it there. That’s Ah, contrary advice, which which I love hearing. All right, that’s Ah, that’s Antoinette Car, part of the leadership team of Women Advance and CEO of Bold and Bright Media. And also Peter Pan, a Pento philanthropic practice leader at Turn two Communications. And they are co authors of the book Modern Media Relations for Non Profits Internet. Peter, thank you very much for sharing. Thanks so much. Thanks for

[00:26:41.86] spk_1:
having us, tony.

[00:28:23.84] spk_0:
Pleasure stay safe and thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC responsive by Cougar Mountain Software at 20 NTC. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software. Their accounting product Denali, is built for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and exemplary support that understands you. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now time for Tony’s Take Two. You’re dismantling racism journey. That’s our newest special episode. You will have a long journey, so start with this single step. This show will be out the week of July 6th. My guest is pretty itchy Shah. She’s president and CEO of Flourish Talent Management Solutions. She shares her wisdom and solid advice on working through the journey, starting with your people, your culture and your leadership. That is tony Steak, too. Now it’s time for content strategy with Valerie Johnson and Katie Green. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC. That’s the 2020 non profit Technology conference. We’re sponsored a 20 ntc by Cougar mouth and software. My guests now are Katie Green and Valerie Johnson. Katie is digital giving manager for the Trevor Project. And Valerie Johnson is director of institutional Advancement at Pathways to Housing, P A, K T. And Valerie. Welcome.

[00:28:32.74] spk_3:
I deliver having us.

[00:28:59.74] spk_0:
It’s a pleasure. Good to good to talk to both of you. And glad to know that you’re each safe and well, um, in in Brooklyn and Ah, suburban Philadelphia. Glad you’re with us. Um, you’re NTC. Ah. What shop was content? Strategy for donor engagement. From tactics to testing. Um, let’s start with you. Ah, Katie. What? What did you feel was the need for the session Where non profits not getting doing so well, it could be doing a lot better.

[00:29:42.74] spk_3:
Yeah. So we have a session this morning at same time as the originally a plan, which is great. You were able to give it virtually. And I think what a lot of donor content strategy is missing is simply structure. I think a lot of people don’t know where to start, and they’re intimidated by it. And we, Valerie and I provided some real life examples on how you can achieve a donor content strategy that does get you closer to your revenue bulls. However, the tone of the presentation changed a little bit, given how the world has come to be our new reality. So we did talk a little bit about the crisis and what it means for fundraising and what it means for content strategy under a tight timeline, knowing that things are changing at a really rapid pace. So really just structure and story telling or the things that we talked about in this morning presentation, which will be available or, uh, viewing later, we’re gonna have a recording available for those who weren’t able to make it. But yeah, that’s what we focus on.

[00:30:29.30] spk_0:
Okay, um, remind me at the end. If I forget, let me know where that recording let us know where that recording is gonna be. Um, were you part of the plug in? That was That was that was today. Is that what that where you did your session or are plugged in now it was made with something else. Where did you do?

[00:30:32.82] spk_3:
Yeah, I don’t Gallery actually knows more about that. Um

[00:30:36.16] spk_0:
where did you did you do this session, Valerie

[00:30:40.14] spk_3:
Valerie was so kind to plan it all for us, so I don’t wanna speak over

[00:30:48.60] spk_4:
Valerie. Sorry. Looking it up. I wanted to make sure I was getting the correct name of the organization that helped us to put this together. Um, So Nyah at Bowery analytics contacted us. Um, and she actually contacted a large number of people who were planning to stick at N 10 because in 10 wasn’t able to do a virtual conference. The what she and Bowery analytics pulled together a bunch of us to help get the zoom set up and get the weapon are set up and get everything scheduled and get some registration links together. Um, all of the webinars for free. And a lot of us had already developed a content, So why not?

[00:31:28.22] spk_0:
Yeah, And for non profit radio as well. I’m glad we could do it here, too. So you want to tell us now where, where condone listeners find the full session? Do you know

[00:31:44.56] spk_4:
the full sessions are going to be available through Bowery analytics? It’s B o w e r y analytics dot com, and we’ll make sure we get a link to our specific such number.

[00:31:58.54] spk_0:
Okay, Okay. Thank you. Um, let’s start with, uh, part of the good strategy is using personas user personas. Can you kick us off with that? Valerie? How do you How do you start to identify what persona looks like? And what’s their value?

[00:32:53.84] spk_4:
Absolutely. So persona is really like a profile or a character sketch of someone that you need to connect with, um, and understanding their motivations and goals. So it’s a way of segmenting your audience. And rather than sending all of your messaging out into the ether trying to tailor that messaging to a specific demographic or a specific group of people, So for pathways to housing p a were actually still developing. What are person does look like? We have an idea of what it looks like, but we want to dig support into the research and analytics side of things to see who exactly is supporting us right now. And what, um, ties they have in common to help us build those profiles. I think Katie might be a little bit further ahead of us in developing this personas. I’m gonna toss it over to her. Yeah.

[00:32:55.44] spk_3:
Yeah. So, uh, user personas are something I’ve been doing throughout my career. I worked in an agency before I came to the Trevor Project, so I was able to get a lot of industry knowledge on how we create user personas and user journeys. But what we did when we started looking at our end of your campaign for last year Trevor Project, we made sure we carved out some time Teoh conduct a little bit of an audit of what our donors were looking like. Where were they coming from, what could be tracked, what could be tracked? We found out we had a lot more questions that needed answers. So in order to get user personas, something that’s really important is tracking and understanding where people are coming from and where their first and Lex last clicks are. So because of our ability to do so. Google Analytics and Source code Tracking Protocol. We did get a lot of tracking during end of year that will improve. What are user pursuant is like going into future campaigns, but now we’re gonna be able to better tell what is actually inspiring. People give what is the moment where they’re actually clicking that donate button. What is the first thing they’re seeing that’s starting a relationship with the trouble project. So

[00:34:06.99] spk_2:
what are

[00:34:13.06] spk_0:
the pieces of a persona? How granular do you get is where they live, to what they read or what? Yeah, give us, um, a depth of this thing.

[00:36:05.73] spk_3:
Absolutely so the main important piece of a persona is to know what their needs are so you can have a persona that says, General, as this is a donor, they need to know how to give. That’s a persona, but what you’d like to do is get a little bit deeper in being able to tell what the values of that persona are. What’s what’s the name? What’s the age? What’s The character is sticks. What are the opportunities, Really. You know, I like to create fake names and really go into a new stock in Madrid so that you can try to connect with who this person might be. You’re really giving ah face to a name and a value to a person, and you want to look at what donors are looking like. So, for example, for the Trevor Project, we have a lot of one time first time donors, and we have a lot of people who come in. They give their first gift, and I’m trying to find where they’re dropping off, right? What is causing that? So I baby create a persona that is, Ah, one time user that’s not really convinced they want to give again one time donor. They may be young. They may be, um, like within our demographic, which is under 25 youth that we serve with our Christ. The service is in suicide prevention. Service is, um so you can get as granular is making a name and an aged in the demographic and the location and what devices they’re using. I think that’s a big one. Is this person usually on their mobile? Are they usually on test top? What channels do they typically like to look at Twitter? You can get as granular email. Are they just looking at your website? So you know it should get a detailed as you can, but I would encourage people to get really creative with it. If the more detailed you’re able to get, it’s just a just a more clear picture of a donor that you’re looking to target just make sure it’s someone you actually want to target and not someone you’re gonna be. Uh, that wouldn’t actually be coming to you like maybe Bill Gates isn’t gonna be coming. Teoh. A non profit website to donate. But you can look at what those specific I don’t as I would like that are more realist. Extra Your

[00:36:27.10] spk_0:
okay, right? You’re basically non. What’s realistic? Not what you aspiration is.

[00:36:36.82] spk_3:
Yeah, two degree. I mean, I think you could be aspirational, aspirational in some facets of what you’re doing. It has to be somewhat grounded in, you know, a realistic approach. We do get asked. I get aspirational myself when I’m creating donor personas. When you know I am looking for major gifts. I am looking for people who are willing to process a $15,000 credit card charge. And there are people out there that that do that. So when I do my donor personas, they may not be the number one target of my campaign. But I do want to consider what those people are interested in, as well so that I can personalized content for them to the best of my ability.

[00:37:10.53] spk_0:

[00:37:24.13] spk_4:
Yeah, the other thing to keep in mind is diversifying your donor base. So in looking at who’s giving two pathways to housing right now, they’re mostly middle aged, college educated white women who prefer Facebook and giving on a desktop. Um, which is fine. And that’s definitely one category of people that you would want to be supporting you. But Philadelphia is an incredibly diverse city. So if those are the only people that we’re getting to with our messaging, that we really need to think about diversifying our strategies to build new donor profiles for people who don’t all look the same.

[00:38:14.55] spk_0:
And then once you have a bunch of personas and profile that I mean it sounds like you could have 10 or 12 really different ones different. Um, yeah, different characteristics of people, different types of people that come to you. And like you, said Kate, even people who leave no, you want to capture them back. So once you have these Valerie, then you’re trying to communicate to them. But how do you How do you turn your communications into targets to these personas?

[00:38:27.62] spk_4:
So you really want to think about building content specifically for that persona, so you might be doing a campaign that you want to hit a couple of different personas with. But you’re gonna taylor that campaign specifically to each persona and deliver the message Teoh a specific segment of that campaign. So if you’re gonna do a mail campaign, um, you want to think about how you’re putting together that letter and what you’re writing into the letter and how you’re addressing the donors for each of the different segments of each of the different personas that you put together to really help craft a message and inspire them specifically to donate?

[00:38:59.82] spk_0:
Okay, right. Like it. You, like you were saying, you know, yet know what’s important to them. Um, but

[00:39:00.80] spk_1:
that stuff is this is

[00:39:03.82] spk_0:
very, uh, amorphous to try to, you know, it’s not just what they give and how much do they give And what time of year do they give? You know what’s important to them? What do they value this

[00:39:13.75] spk_4:
is This is

[00:39:14.29] spk_0:
difficult stuff to suss out.

[00:39:29.53] spk_4:
Yeah. One thing our co presenters that this morning, Marcus, was that donors were smart and they’re savvy. And with the advent of the Internet and all of the various channels that you can communicate with people now. But what they want and they know what they want to hear from you. And if they’re not hearing from you what they want, they’re gonna go find someone else who’s gonna provide that information and communicate to them the way they want to be communicated with. So fundraising and marketing for non profits right now looks very different than it did maybe 10 15 20 years ago. Um, and And donors know what they want now.

[00:40:01.31] spk_0:
Okay, so it’s worth you’re trying. Teoh suss out all this amorphous information. A ZX best you can. Okay, Katie, Is there anything more you want to say about personas before we move on to being multi channel?

[00:40:07.52] spk_3:
Let’s go on a multi channel. I could talk. Is the personas all day?

[00:40:11.59] spk_0:
All right? All right. Anything. I don’t want anything important out, though, from

[00:40:16.15] spk_3:
OK, I think we’ve covered the main points.

[00:40:18.25] spk_0:
Okay, what’s what’s what’s important about? Well, I think we all know why to be multi channel, But how to coordinate those messages? What’s your What’s your thinking there?

[00:41:37.71] spk_3:
Yeah, I can jump in here. So I think what people often don’t Dio is they don’t coordinate messages Cross channel at the right time. That’s what I’ve been seeing a lot with, just my industry research. I mean, I’m always looking at what everybody is doing in the space because I want to be part of the best. Uh, but they say they being What I’ve heard on multiple conferences is that there’s a rule of seven, right? So as a non donor, let’s am school after Facebook, I need to see and ask seven times before I’m actually likely to give. So if you’re seeing that asked seven times on Facebook, that means it’s seven posts. That’s kind of a lot, and that’s gonna have to be spaced out through a certain amount of days, weeks, months. Even so, if you’re just increasing all the channels that you’re presenting that message on, so let’s say I’m seeing it on Facebook I’m seeing in my email. I’m seeing it on my instagram. I’m getting a paid ad for it because I liked it on Facebook. That’s gonna shorten the window of which I see seven points of that call to action. So I’m gonna be more likely to give if I’m seeing it in a wider spectrum on the digital space. Then I am in just one channel. So making sure that you’re saying similar things but that our custom to what the channel is providing, like social media has, like paid ads, have a certain amount of characters you can use. So bacon shorts optimized for what channel you’re using but still with the common thread, is really important for increasing your numbers. Right.

[00:42:31.14] spk_0:
Okay, Now it’s a little clear to me why I see so many ads for the, uh, pickpocket proof slacks. I see them across all kinds of different channels. I’m not I’m hardly on Facebook anymore. But, um, I I see them when I goto websites and I’m reading articles and because one time I don’t know why, I swear it was like, three years ago I was browsing through these CIA a approved slacks with 14 pockets, and it’s all supposed to be a pickpocket. Proof for something is, you know, the $200 slacks or whatever they’re you know. But I get

[00:42:39.22] spk_3:
your seven times

[00:43:26.30] spk_0:
I has ever since. Yeah, and, uh, I know I’m not even sure that if I bought them the ads would stop. Maybe the West is sophisticated enough. No, it’s not right. That is now your brother needs pair. Whatever time for our last break turn to communications relationships, the world runs on them. We all know that turn to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard. So people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re at turn hyphen two dot ceo, we’ve got but loads more time for content strategy from 20 and TC. Valerie, anything you want, you want to explain about multi channel and how important it is to reinforce and be consistent.

[00:44:25.22] spk_4:
I think the biggest thing for me is if you’re starting from scratch and you’re really trying to develop content and put it in the right places, um, you really want to be thinking about who? Your audiences, all those channels. So for lengthen the messaging that you’re putting out is gonna look a lot different than what you’re putting out on Facebook. Most people use Facebook recreational E, and they use lengthen for professional relationships So the type of information that someone is seeking on Linkin or more likely to respond to go on Lincoln is a lot different than what they’re more likely to look for or respond to on Facebook. So for us, we make sure all of our job listings go up on LinkedIn. And all of our that’s specific for me was humbled Lincoln just to kind of show our expertise in the area. But one were posted to Facebook. We’re talking more likely to people that we know are supporters of us and want to do tangible things to support us. So the messaging is different, even though the information is really the same.

[00:45:00.29] spk_0:
Okay, Okay. Again, you’re consistent, but consistent, but different. Maybe different format even. Um OK, yeah. Um I mean, there’s there’s other format, you know, content paper. Were white papers, Um, again, depending for the right for the right channel research. Um, do

[00:45:01.51] spk_2:
either of

[00:45:12.58] spk_0:
you use, um, media working in working through thought leadership in developing thought leadership in media media relationships A

[00:45:14.19] spk_4:
little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So there is a local media outlet here in Philadelphia called Generosity, and they are focused on nonprofits and social enterprises and people who are making positive impact in Philadelphia. So they’re super open to having folks guest post or write op EDS for them. So we’ve utilized that outlet a couple of times. Um, actually, just last week, uhm our CEO wrote an article about the opportunity for kindness in the era of Corona virus. So it’s something that she actually wrote to communicate to our staff members and let them know what our stance on, you know, moving forward was going to be. And we thought it was think that would be beneficial. Not just our staff, but the at large. So we pass it along to they posted it as an op ed and that gave us, um, a little bit more bang for our buck for that we had already written.

[00:46:07.22] spk_0:
Yeah. Good, good. Um, Katie, you’re doing much with earned media.

[00:46:11.38] spk_3:
I am not. The Trevor Project is. But Katie Green is not that our constant handle that.

[00:46:20.12] spk_0:
OK, um, let’s talk about some some analytics. How do we know whether we’re being successful on where we need to? We need to tweak or pivot. Can you get us started?

[00:46:42.48] spk_3:
Absolutely. So analytics is very hard for a lot of nonprofits because it’s such a scientific based, skilled touch. And, you know, that’s something that when I first came onto the Trevor Project, is the first thing I implemented was our source coding protocol. It’s so important to know where people are coming from, but you can actually optimize, but we a be tested and continue to be test absolutely everything. We do it through. Ah, our website radio through email, We do it through our paid social and to see how things work. I think really we just test absolutely everything. Things you think you know you don’t. And that’s what I keep learning through. Testing is what you think works today, work tomorrow and we retest everything. A time of day test, for example, isn’t gonna throw send for email isn’t gonna be the same after daylight savings. It’s not gonna be the same as the seasons change, and particularly not the same now that everybody is stuck at home. So you know, they’re testing and optimizing Really, what you know is working. It just requires retesting, re optimizing and testing.

[00:47:43.41] spk_0:
Could you could you give some more examples Besides time of day. What examples of things you test.

[00:49:01.17] spk_3:
Oh, absolutely. So on our website we tested, we have a little call out box with questions on our donate form. We tested the placement of that. Is it better to have it right up next to the form underneath, directly on tops of dispersing people see to be tested. Placement there. We test what photos we use. A lot does a photo of somebody looking sad versus somebody looking more celebratory and happy. We test a lot of pride imagery because the serv LGBT Q youth We want to see if pride imagery actually helps get our word out there. We test our colors a lot because our brand colors orange, which is can be very cautionary. But we see you think that it’s your brand color. Of course, everybody’s gonna always just on toe, But that’s not really the case like sometimes they like our blues and R purples and greens when it comes to see ta buttons. Um, gosh, I mean, I could tell you every test I’ve ever run thunder test, some using graphics versus photos on the website. You know, the size with the height of our life boxes with mark donation forms. The amount of buttons we have it just the list goes on and on. I

[00:49:21.77] spk_0:
heard one that just made me think of one small example of what? Riffing off What you just said was testing the text inside a button. Yeah, instead of just donate or ah, reviewed or something, you know, beam or more splits explicit about what? The what? The action is you asking for just a single word. A little more descriptive.

[00:49:56.13] spk_3:
Yeah, Testing. See, Ta Izz is something that we dio a lot just to get people some ideas. I think one that can be really helpful when it comes to fundraising is seeing how your donors reacts to the word give and the word support and the word donate. So all the same thing we’re after you to support our mission to give to us and to donate. But those three words have very different feelings when you’re reading them on your screen. So that’s one of the biggest test we ran. But I would recommend always test taking see ta when you have a new one, especially

[00:50:05.61] spk_0:
Was it was it act blue that, uh, change dot or GE, I think maybe change that or GE started calling it chip in, could you? Chimp man,

[00:50:12.99] spk_3:
I think that that flail sounds like a classic act Blue.

[00:50:18.26] spk_0:
Yeah. Okay. Um eso Valerie, can you talk us through some metrics? You’re the director of institutional advancement. What? What numbers do you look for? Decide how you’re doing.

[00:51:11.98] spk_4:
Ah, we look at a lot of things. So we’re looking at the click through rates on our emails and honor Post, actually reading to the bottom and clicking the links that we’re providing. Um, we’re looking at how many people are interacting with things that were posting on social media and whether they are, um, injuring it. We’re not. Hey, son, how many people are interacting with it? Um, we took a lot of surveys to do. So talking to our donors directly and asking them what kind of things they won’t see. What kind of thanks. Um I know Katie’s doing ah lot more with metrics than we are. So this is my friendly reminder to smaller nonprofits where there’s just one person trying to do all of this. You don’t have to recreate the feel eso you could look at an organization like the Trevor Project that does have the staff who can look at all of these things. And you, all of these tests chicken, all of the match person, See, But for the past at a imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So you can look at what they’re doing and then borrow It s o for an organization like me that has a fuller staff were doing a little bit on our own. But we’re also looking a lot of what other nonprofits were doing and a scooping that they’re taking the time to test things. And we’re kind of, you know, copying what they’re doing, obviously successful for them.

[00:51:44.45] spk_0:
How do you learn from them? Do you just created build a relationship and then asked, What? What kind of metrics do you look at?

[00:51:51.46] spk_4:
Sometimes And sometimes it’s a simple as going to the Trevor Project websites donate page and seeing where they placed things and what they named their buttons and what giving levels they’re putting up there. Um, because, you know, you’re never gonna be exactly the same as another organization. So you definitely want to take a look at your use thing as an example and use someone who’s doing similar work or in a similar location to you. But at the end of the day, there’s only so much you can learn through testing. And after that you’re just gonna have to dive in and do something. So if you don’t have time for the testing, you could do a quick search of what everybody in your industry is doing and kind of take it from there and said,

[00:52:33.45] spk_0:
Katie, since everybody’s stealing from the Trevor Project, What, uh, what? I assume you knew Valerie was doing this.

[00:52:36.65] spk_3:
I didn’t. But it’s such a compliment

[00:52:39.48] spk_4:
is because you do a great job. That’s why we’re looking at you.

[00:52:43.95] spk_3:
Oh, gosh,

[00:52:44.69] spk_0:
What do you want to add about? Metrics?

[00:52:48.65] spk_3:
Um, I think I just want toe reiterate Valerie’s point that there are so many nonprofits where one person is doing us. Um, I’m the only person on the digital giving team. I’m the first person they were hired to do. Digital living. Um, I’ve been still with the team member of one, but, you know, I do have the support of a very large marketing team that helps me with creating all of the tests that we dio and anyone can tweet me, email me whatever it like any non profit everyone to connect. I Moyes unopened resource. But, uh, metrics are increasingly, uh, important. Just critical role to donors. Content strategy. So

[00:53:29.99] spk_0:
is your offering yourself as a resource. Do you want to share your e mail and or your Twitter? You don’t have to give your email if you don’t want to.

[00:53:37.22] spk_3:
Yeah, maybe Twitter is probably the best way to reach me because I’m trying. I’m trying to learn how to tweet more as a digital person. I feel like radio its act. Katie Sue Green like one word. So it’s k a t i e after you e g r e n Katie Stuart Green green. Just like the color. No, ESPN.

[00:54:05.19] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um, that’s a Valerie. You want to, uh, gonna wrap us up some parting thoughts about content strategy?

[00:54:07.13] spk_4:
Sure. Um, since I am kind of representing the smaller organization here, I just want to remind everybody that you’re doing everything that you can, and it’s everything that you’re doing is important. So don’t try to do everything at once, really. Pick one thing to focus on and get to a point where you’re doing that well and comfortably before you try to add more. Um, listen, podcast like this or going to a presentation like the one that we did this morning is overwhelming in the number of things that you could be. Do you think? And it makes you feel like you’re not doing enough? But you are. And just tackling the small hills one at a time is much, much easier than trying to climb the mountain.

[00:56:13.47] spk_0:
That’s very gracious. Gracious advice. Thank you. Thanks very much. That was Valerie Johnson. That is Valerie Johnson, director of Institutional Advancement at Pathways to Housing P A. And with her is Katie Green. Digital giving manager for Trevor Project. Thank you very much for sharing each of you Thanks so much. And thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC pulling it together. Virtually responsive by Cougar Mouth and Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain will get you a free 60 day trial. Thanks a lot for being with us next week. Accessibility and inclusive design If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits? Tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant er mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff, Sam Liebowitz Managed Stream shows. Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy on this

[00:56:22.08] spk_8:
Music is by Scots with me next week for non

[00:56:29.63] spk_0:
profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

Nonprofit Radio for August 1, 2014: Offline Drives Online & Manage Those Expectations

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Richard Becker: Offline Drives Online

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Multichannel engagement is essential. You know this. Drawing from multiple cases, Richard Becker reveals strategies to stand out from your competition for mindshare and have online engagement impact offline outcomes, like giving and volunteering. Richard is president of Target Analytics. (Recorded at Blackbaud’s bbcon conference).df



 Maria Semple: Manage Those Expectations

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Maria Semple

Maria Semple, our prospect research contributor and The Prospect Finder, shares expectation management tips. How do you help staff and your board understand what prospect research can and can’t do? 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the itching and redness of dermatitis her peta for miss if it came within my ken that you had missed today’s show offline drives on mine multi-channel engagement is essential, you know that drawing from multiple cases, richard becker reveals strategies to stand out from your competition for mind share and have online engagement impact offline outcomes like giving and volunteering. Richard is president of target analytics, and that was recorded at blackbaud sbi become unconference and manage those expectations. Maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder shares expectation management tips. How do you help staff and you’re bored? Understand what prospect research can and can’t do for you on tony’s, take two throwback thursdays, responsive by generosity, siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks here’s my interview from bb con last year. This is from last october with richard becker welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb con twenty thirteen with the gaylord convention center outside washington d c in national harbor, maryland, my guest is richard becker he’s, president of target analytics, part of blackbaud and his session topic today is dr offline response with online advertising. Richard becker, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony appreciate it. That’s a pleasure to have you, um, explain what’s the relationship between target analytics and blackbaud case i i said it wrong. Yeah, target analytics is one of the four business units within blackbaud and we used data and analytic driven insights to create fund-raising solutions for our clients, affecting both their direct marketing dripping fund-raising as well as their major gift ribbon. Fund-raising okay, you probably know george durney then i do know george, director of sales at target analytics, right? He’s fantastic he’s actually looking for a job, you could tell him, i said that he wants to host a washington, d c morning show so he may not be your director of sales very much longer and that that’s, you don’t hear it from me back-up we’re talking about everything. Multi-channel yes, right online and offline. Why is a single channel and let’s take the more traditional offline no longer satisfactory? Well, i think the consumer preferences, they’re changing, particularly around the different generations, the traditional target for fund-raising are going to be your older individuals sixty, sixty five or higher and traditionally postal based direct mail in telemarketing have been great channels to capture those individuals, but as the newer generations come forward, obviously they’re in tune with social media, web based purchasing and web based giving and so there’s a new marketing mix, it needs to come together to achieve the type of response and conversion rates that direct marketers are looking for. What if we think our constituency is mostly sixty and over, or or or if not, mostly for the proportion that is sixty and over, should we still be used relying predominantly on the traditional male it’s a great question and our research and the evidence that we have with the solutions that we bring to bear, show that a significant portion of that older demographic sixty year older are in fact online and are, in fact influenced by email marketing, social media and online advertising. Do you have ah, any any stats on the penetration of of social media among the sixty year on over generation? Yeah, i mean it’s clearly not. Going to be as high as some of these younger democrats, but i do know it’s also growing, if you know the growth rate, maybe it is absolutely growing and it’s growing double digits year over year, okay, the key here, though, is really to understand the impact on some of these online channels, whether it be online advertising, email and the like and social media on those offline channels, because here’s the important thing it’s not that this older demographic is significantly migrating, they’re donorsearch hey, viewer or they’re giving to those online channels they’re not. But what we’re able to prove with some of the newer solutions and the technology that we have is that the brand impact of putting email in front of them, the brand favorability gained by putting online advertising in front of them winds up affecting they’re offline response, whether it be and increase the likelihood to open and convert that postal based direct mail piece or that outbound telemarketing call. So there’s a correlation between these online channels and he’s off line channels and a big mistake that a lot of the direct marketing and easy with the non-profits are prone to make. Is by operating and silos often times, particularly in organizations that are maturing, they’ll have an online group and an offline group. And what we’re showing our clients is that you really need to bring those groups together because the impact of online on offline is really the magic. Okay, well, let’s say a lot more about this, how do we start to integrate the two so that we’re getting the impact that that you’re talking about? Sure, we did have a really interesting use case today in our session, we showcase the university of indiana environmental defense fund care and ah, the example we uses is leveraging online advertising, and i’m going to take a step back and and we’ll talk a little bit first about the evolution of online advertising metoo for most folks, they think of online advertising, as i want to put my ads on a web destination where i think my constituents might be. So, for example, you believe that you want to go over older, wealthier individuals who are likely to give to your organization. So you may think i should advertise on the new york times or a site where that type of demographic might be attracted. The challenges that’s really akin to putting up a billboard on the side of the highway in the hopes that those individuals who who see her ad also have ah, philanthropic component of them let’s face it, not it not everybody sixty years or older with capacity is necessarily philanthropic. So it’s really it’s more of a mass advertising play the legacy way things are done. What most people don’t realize is the technology has really evolved considerably over the last eighteen months. And so, for example, with online advertising, what we’re able to do now is to actually taken input file of individuals based on name and postal address and target them wherever they go online and put online advertising front of them. So let’s think of the use case. In the case of the university of indiana, they wanted teo put together a program, a direct mail program targeting their alumni, and so our value proposition was essentially look, you know, before that mail piece just winds up showing up at their door let’s reinforce your brand and remind people about their affinity with the university of indiana so before they targeted those four hundred roughly four hundred fifty thousand alumni with that direct mail piece, we took those exact individuals, we found them online, and we served online advertising to them in the months leading up to the direct mail piece showing up at the door. And ultimately what the results show is for those individuals that we did put online advertising in front of us. It’s significantly outperformed the group that could have received online advertising and didn’t. So we have concrete evidence via metrics that show that you can receive, you know, response rates that air fifteen, twenty, twenty five percent hyre when you’re reinforcing your brand to the same exact individuals who will ultimately receive that postal base, direct mail piece or telemarketing call, all right, now, what do you need to have in place to take advantage of this? Typically, you know that. So in that example, we run campaigns in two ways. Typically a client wants to market to their existing crn be so they may be it’s a reactivation campaign, maybe they’re converting. Ah, part event participants to donors, whatever, whatever the gist of their campaign is, and we’ll take in input file out of their c. R m that’s one avenue in which we could run the campaign. The other would be the if it’s a acquisition campaign, we can create a list of qualified prospects based on the analytics that we’ve got in target analytics and say these are likely first time donors your organization let’s, target them at this point in time were typically looking for clients with a relatively sizeable file, as that is an input file for us to target. I believe the smallest file that we’ve processed in a single campaign would be about three hundred thousand or so constituents so it’s really oriented towards the mid to large market. Okay, what is the small and midsize shop and and recognizing that all the listeners are not blackbaud customers, what do they need to have in place? What? What kind of conversation do they need to have with their database crn provider to execute what we’re talking about? Yeah, i mean, so typically, you know, we even the smaller clients we say look, let’s, get to a volume that achieves your marketing objectives. So even if it’s a, even if they have a smaller house file, if they’re smaller clients fifty thousand a hundred thousand will say, look, we’ll take that part of your file will augment it with donor of prospects that look like individuals on your file to get to that minimum threshold, and we’ll run her campaign against the broader spectrum. There are alternatives, there are clients obviously, who were going to be on the small side and not be ableto afford to produce a file that size what we want, we might use a different medium, then i’ll give you ah, slightly different example, but keeping in the spirit of of these new emerging channels, we had a client who had a specific cause in the greater new york city area and a specifically wanted to target. Based on that geography, the affinity for their cause was in and around central park. So rather than using online advertising, we actually used a geographic based mobile advertising solution that we have that could pinpoint individuals that we’re using they’re handheld devices within a specific radius around central park, and we were able to target them that way, so there are different alternatives to get these very specific audiences. It could be again the folks in your serum a prospect. Cool folks in an individual of, you know, geographic area. All right, you got the data very, very many different, very finite, yes, okay. E-giving, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine this’s. The way we’re hosting a party in my french nufer city, guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back. French is a common language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them, shed this story. Join us, a part of my french new york city. Every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping countries. People be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Dahna we were talking about advertising specifically, but weaken apply this to other combinations of online and offline. Absolutely, i mean the most predominant channel that’s been traditionally used. His email and that’s been used, i think, with mixed results, the allure of email, particularly around for a smaller midsize non-profit is that there are no limitations to the size of audience you, khun target, and in many ways it’s a free channel there’s not a whole heck of a lot of cost associated with sending him out. Email that’s the good news. The bad news is it’s not an unbelievably, you know, effective channel more often than not, because it is free and there’s so much competition for mindshare and ah, your email may or may not break through all the noise that’s in that e mail box, but similar to the online advertising solution that i mentioned, you have to look at email in the same contacts that it could be supporting other channels. So whether or not you’re getting click through and conversion buy-in email that you’re sending the trick is to understand the impact that email is having when that postal based direct mail piece shows up. For that telemarketing call shows up and i keep dwelling on that because there was an interesting statistic when we opened up bb kahn and i believe kevin mooney stood on the stage and i believe the quote that he used was that online is growing at four times the rate of offline channels or something to that effect true is that maybe the reality is eighty percent e-giving is still on these offline channels, and we cannot ignore them. And so the big mantra that we have is you absolutely have to embrace these online channels and they are viable, and they’re going to continue to evolve and become a greater of greater importance to the marketing mix moving forward. But as we sit here today, the real importance of those online channels isn’t necessarily the money you’re raising directly through them. But the impact those online channels are having on your legacy channels male and telemarket so crucial toe have coordination and just really accurate record keeping. Who got who got what? When so we can look at our at each individual organization, see what the degree of correlation is for our constituents. Absolutely that’s really what’s been missing up until this point is the measurement between these disparate channels. I think where we started, our conversation was too many of our clients will say, well, you know, we looked at the click through and conversion rates for online advertising, and the campaign didn’t pay for itself where we sent an email and it didn’t raise a whole lot of money or we set up a facebook page and we have, you know, five million followers, but we’re not getting a lot of donations. You cannot look at those individual channels and evaluate them stand alone, you have to be able to evaluate them and their impact across all of your channels and it’s really only been within the last twelve to eighteen months that we’ve been able to develop a system and a technology platform that can evaluate these various channels as they work with each other, the actual outcome on the other in the other channels, more traditional channels also takes a mindset change to recognize that the facebook page and the twitter stream or not the outcome? Absolutely, we call it a closed loop report where we’re closing the loop across all these channels where we’re looking at at what has occurred amongst them were looking at the commonality of who is utilizing them, the sequencing of how they’re using and then the ultimate outcome at us at the consumer household level. Did they donate? Did they participate? Did they take the action you wanted? And then we’re able to correlate that across all the channels and produce meaningful reports that really showed the return on your advertising? Spend the return on your marketing investment across all those channels and that’s really the big new thing, you know, over the last twelve to eighteen months, the ability to quantify that give a market or confidence that their marketing mix is either working or not. And it’s funny, you know, the the online advertising solution that i gave you, we have folks in the audience, he said, you know, will this work for me or, you know, richard, you gave him an example, but university and yet already has strong brand recognition or, you know, i’m a cancer related cause, but i know i’m not one of the top three or four i get why it would work for them, but i’m not sure it worked. For me and, you know, i often jokingly say to folks, i’ll tell you one way or the other, i mean, now at least you’re in a position that whether this campaign works or not, you have meaningful metrics at the end of the campaign that either prove you’re right or you’re wrong, that it was going to work, it wasn’t going to work it’s no longer guesswork and, you know, a true direct marketer doesn’t like to guess we like fact based elearning another case that you shared was environmental defense fund. What was the lessons there? What happened? Fantastic client and an example of a client who really gets had to integrate their channels. We spent some time today reviewing the specific campaign that they ran with us, and i’ll first talk a little bit about something that they do so well on that’s their creative it starts with the online banner advertising that they created all consistent, no matter which creative they used out of the portfolio of about fifteen different ads that they have, they used a very nice visual of a polar bear, and sometimes the polar bear was doing different things, but it’s always a polar bear the e d f logo displayed prominently in the call to action crystal clear donate here it was very simple, streamlined, colorful gets your attention that’s the first thing they did right, the second thing they do right where the wheels typically fall off for a non-profit is, they made sure that the direct mail piece correlated one hundred percent toe what folks were seeing online. So if you had those online impressions and we know that getting seven to fifteen online ad impressions per household per month is highly impactful for when that toe to make the action happen when the direct mail piece comes. So imagine you’re getting seven to fifteen of these ad impressions for, you know, thirty, sixty, ninety days before that direct mail piece comes in every time across multiple change, and it could be any site that you go to any site you go to, doesn’t matter whether you’re on facebook, new york times, we’re going to find you, and we’re going to put that out because it’s audience baste, not site based and butt your butt. Cdf is doing such a good job because it’s it’s it’s always the same. Visual and creative that you’re seeing, and then so what they do so well is when that direct mail piece comes. The direct mail piece is one hundred percent aligned with what you’ve been experiencing an online have already seen it. There wasn’t the same visual. I’m just able to hold it the same messaging, the same type of ass and you know, it’s it’s tightly wound up and what’s great is even the landing page another mistake, folks may hey, is if you do click through the ad or maybe you see the ad, you think about it or you get the dural direct mail piece and you go you know what? I don’t write the check. Let me go to the website the landing page exactly the same polar bear messaging. The same color scheme the same. We have statistics that show that just the slightest change. If they were to move from the polar bear to a seal or just any other color schematics, it could blow the success of the program, you know, completely the wrong way. But it was so good about aligning their online and off china line child together and have a true integrated multi-channel marketing strategy. That’s. Why? They see such great success rates and that’s. Why one of their they’re one of the leaders in the d m space? What kind of outcomes did they have? You know, they see what most of our other clients going to, you know, ten to fifteen percent lift in response and conversion rates for those individuals who are part of ah multi-channel strategy as opposed to a mano channel strategy. Okay. And another case you shared was care or what? Lessons there. You know, very similar. They have obviously a very compelling story and visual behind their mission, and they use it quite successfully, much like e t f really strong coordination across the offline and online channels and and their success and their strategy really mirrors in many ways what we see with the df. So another great example. Okay, we still have a couple minutes left. What more can you tell us about working this multi-channel strategies? Yeah. I mean, there’s, a lot of talk about multi-channel strategy. And really, at the end of the day where what we see is clients need help in, you know, bringing it all together and measuring it. I mentioned earlier that you know, the biggest challenge i see is that you have the old guard, the folks that are so adept at using, you know, postal bets, direct mail to dr results. And they continue to see challenges in the response rates that they’re getting in the conversion rates that they’re getting. Some of that is, you know, the headwinds of the economy. Some of that are changing demographics. Some of that, you know, increased competition for, you know, dollars. You know, and then separately, though, you’ll see the these organizations standing up a separate online group, and then they do them such self such a disservice. And even when they hire a third party agencies, you’ll have well, we have an offline agency, and then we have an online agency, and so immediately you see how the creative is not going to be linked together. The story that they’re telling is going to be different, the channel measure is going to be different, and so we’re seeing success with our clients are those who are having that ah ha moment they’re saying, look, this is really one thing, and we need a level of coordination amongst our online and offline marketing. We need measurement across them. We need standardized metrics across them. And i think once they get to that kind of epiphany that’s where it really comes together for them and they get an optimal outcome, okay, very key and consistent messages are consistency across andi now, the ability to measure what? What? I guess what created this revolution just twelve or eighteen months ago? Where? How come we come? We couldn’t do it then. Yeah, you know. I think there’s been some advances in technology, you know, going back to the online advertising, you know, the the ability to track someone’s online activity at a consumer household level and link that back to their offline activity. It didn’t exist eighteen or twenty four months ago, and they’re ah, our data partner. Oh, our our vendor partner for the underlying technology is a firm called data logics, and they’ve developed the secret sauce, if you will, that enables us to link online and offline activity and to be able to target online advertising at a household level they’ve had, you know, it’s it’s interesting if you go back a year year and a half ago, there was a big article right before actually, facebook went public that gm had pulled, like forty million dollars or something like that of online advertising budget away from facebook because they just didn’t think they were getting the type of return that they needed, and the reality was they didn’t know what type of return because there was no technology in place to measure that. And so data logics now aki partner of not only ours, but facebook helping them quantify and measure the type of impact those online impressions and there was this facebook likes and that facebook activity has on purchasing a gm car, purchasing consumer packaged goods off the shelf in a in a target or a food store, and they’re making that linkage and they’re helping us make that linkage for our clients on and the interactions they have with their donors. This is why we’re all seeing ads online for sites where we’ve been, but maybe we didn’t make the purchase decision or even i’m not sure i see them as much when i have made the purchase choice, but i know if i go to a resort or a hotel or something, and i’m just browsing around to see what kind of packages they have and what the rooms look like i’m going, i’m going to see that resort in my online advertising, so we’ve taken this step further. So what you described is re marketing, and i would say that remark, it’s probably been around, you know, two years or so that’s you went to a website, they put a cookie on your device, and now they’re following you around and placing advertising within your online experience attempting you typically to come back and taken action what’s interesting is, you know and that’s phenomenal. But that necessitated you go into the website to begin with and more than likely would have been helpful if you register registered there and offered your name and address so they could profile you and figure out, you know, what’s going toward you back. Okay? The solution i describe is you never had to have gone to the university of indiana website. You never had to visit the environmental defense fund website because we’re starting with name and postal address and using this kind of shared cookie poul that we’ve developed amongst, you know, thousands and thousands of web sites out there were able to identify you whether you were a former website, visitor or not, and will always know who you are and be able to link that back to create a rich profile. There are things there are people who think you’re the devil they might you know it. So let me give you the flipside of that, right. People get concerned about privacy. Everything we talk about is obviously compliant. Aiba, you know, internet advertising bureau compliant. The reality is, if you’re a consumer, and if you’re really thought about it, you’re going to get online advertising. You’re going to get solicitations via the mail, wouldn’t you rather they be relevant, then? Just random? This just, yeah, i would like to think i would, but there’s just something about being followed around the way i described when i had gone to the site and you said they place the cooking yet just when i when that ad pops up on the next site that i’ve been to it’s just something that feels unseemly about it, i feel a little violated. I feel a little compromised. We’re going to get philosophical here from wait a couple minutes, but we’ll keep labbate believe it this way. Ah, there may be a website you enjoy maybe it’s, maybe it’s, the new york times, maybe it’s, the atlanta journal constitution or whatever new site you go to, maybe there is, you know, social websites, you goto they’re free more often than not. You’re enjoying the benefit of content that they’re providing you oh, and not paying for it, but they have to make money and that money is going to come. Through contextual and behaviour based advertising, and so to keep the things that you want free, you’re trading off a little bit of your privacy, perhaps for something like relevant advertising. So i suppose we could move to a model where there’s no advertising or we could move to a model where advertising is totally random. But i think than the internet probably loses some of the no cost, low cost enjoyment that you receive, and you’d move to a model where you’re going to pay for one way or the other. Okay, what you want leave us with? Well, first, let me just say i appreciate the forum i thinkit’s a great richard, you know, this is fantastic and, ah, you know, the direct marketing spaces changing quickly and people could get intimidated by the wide array of options that are out there twitter, facebook linked in online advertising so many avenues to touch clients and i think it’s an exciting time when the technology finally catches up and allows us to embrace these channels in a way that can produce a tangible r a y for our clients so that they’re not just wasting money and we know that that’s more important for our non-profit clients and then any other vertical out there. So i think it’s exciting time. Richard becker is president of target analytics at blackbaud richard, thanks so much for being a guest. Thanks, tony. Been a pleasure. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty thirteen, thanks so much for listening. My thanks, as always to everybody had become the show is so full that it’s taken me this long to get to use that that becker interview on de so, but grateful to everybody at blackboard and b b gone generosity siri’s you know them, they host multi charity peer-to-peer five k runs and walks if you’re using summer to plan for your fall fund-raising if you’re small and midsize shop that can’t generate enough activity to have your own five k event, think about generosity siri’s they have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia and toronto. If you think a run walk might make sense for you, talk to dave lynn he’s the ceo tell him you’re from non-profit radio he’s at seven one eight five o six nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com we’ve got throwback thursdays on the facebook page we’re featuring past interviews that i think deserve your attention again. Each thursday on facebook last week was andrew noise he’s, the facebook director of government relations at least he was at the time, which is essentially lobbying, but he didn’t like to call it that. Um, yes, throwback thursdays on the facebook page every thursday. I remember when i used to have to say facebook dot com slash tony martignetti non-profit radio, but those were those were the old days four years ago. So check out throwback thursday for best guests from our archive and that is tony’s take two for friday, first of august thirtieth show of the year with me now is maria simple? You know maria she’s, a prospect finder, she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now exclamation mark she’s, our doi and of dirt cheap and free. You can follow her on twitter at maria simple maria simple. Welcome back. Hey there, tony. How are you? I’m doing terrific, lee. Well, how are you? Today? Oh, just fine. Thanks. Excellent. Excellent. And thank you again for joining me on the two hundredth show a couple weeks ago. Oh, that was fun. But as i said, i do expect to be brought in in person to enjoy the party in the studio next time. Okay, well, you know, i could have invited you for the two hundred. No, i didn’t. I guess i never think of it because you’re always i know you’re just over in jersey. I could have had you all right. There was there was nothing intentional. It was my was my oversight. I could have you over for sure. I’m just giving you a hard time right now, but i know i feel bad. All right? I’m over it. Um, we want to talk about some expectation setting you. You feel like there’s a disconnect between what prospect researchers do and what the world thinks they do. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, i thought we’d spend a few minutes talking about that today because i came across a very interesting mean on the internet on actually thie apra, indiana, which is the association of professional researchers for advancement on their facebook page and this. It was a name that was going back a long time ago. Back in twenty twelve, i think. And so it kind of had a six pictures, and one was a picture that said what my friends think i do what my mom thinks i do, what fundraisers think i do what my kids think i do, what i think i do and what i really dio and on that final photo, it’s a woman sitting in front of the computer, you know, pulling her hair out. Okay, so this guy this got you thinking right? So it got me thinking about well, you know, what do you know? People have a very big misunderstanding about what prospect researchers do, or even about what the role of prospect researches in the overall development cycle. And, you know, why do we need it? How can we benefit? Some boards are actually afraid of it, right? Because they think, well, we shouldn’t be, you know, snooping into other people’s business. And what if they find out? Yes. And we’ve talked about this before when it was in the popular press. I know it was at the new york times. Or maybe was the times that had an article about prospect research, you know, going back a couple of years. Yeah, i think i think there was and, you know, people continue to have this misconception, and even, you know, as you said, there was there was this article in the times, so even people who are in the business of gathering information, in fact, when i’m gathering information, i try and think of myself as an investigative reporter, right? Try and be as objective as possible about the data that i come across, not really pass any judgment on it or put any subjective spin on any of the information i’m i’m reporting in any of my profile. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I i do remember us talking about it. Uh, and then it came up again. I don’t think you and i talked about it, but came up again. Ah, sometime last year when there was a woman named ah, you jet clark and she had lived at new york presbyterian hospital for i think it was last fifteen or twenty years of her life. For some things, you just became a resident of the hospital, even though she wasn’t ill on dh. There were questions about what types of information the hospital gathered about her and how they gathered it, and whether you know meetings and things with her through these decades that that she was living there, and that that that brought it up again, too. And i blogged that, too, and i, by the way, i i thought new york presbyterian hospital didn’t do anything that a charity shouldn’t be doing with somebody who’s living in their facility for fifteen, twenty years, she was wealthy, and she was good. She was a good potential donor, right? Right? I mean, and then you think about some of the assisted living facilities, you know, extend that a little further, right there they are themselves nonprofit organizations as well. So yeah, i mean, you have to think about sensitivity of information. Yet if somebody is really using your services for that extended period of time and that engaged with your organization, whether they be a consumer or a donor over a fifteen twenty year period of time, certainly there’s a lot of cultivation and conversations that happen on dh. You know, they could have probably written donor profiles on her without ever sitting in front of a computer? Yeah, for sure. And and that type of information gathering not only does happen what should happen, they were i would say that they were negligent if they hadn’t. I mean, she lived there all those years. I mean, yeah, just she’s a wealthy woman on dh she’s lived she’s living there, benefiting from the work that you do you provide. Um, like i said, you’ve been negligent not to be pursuing her a za potential donor, but so what have you ah, you run up against this problem, like as a as a consultant in prospect research, if you run up against this with ceos, boards, you know them not really understanding what it is you do. I think the ceo have a much better grasp of it because they understand how important it is. They’re doing some sort of form of research when they’re looking at at grantspace research. So it’s sort of this natural extension that they would be thinking about their individual donor base, but i think it’s the boards that are a little bit more uncomfortable with it, depending on the sophistication of the board, they don’t really understand public data versus private data what’s accessible, you know, there’s a lot awful lot going on out there right now with ah people’s data being compromised and so forth, so they really don’t want to think that, you know, well, you know, are we compromising somebody’s data if we’re looking at what they’re home values are and what their stock holdings are? If there, you know, publicly reporting this information, so they get a little uncomfortable, how about back on the staff side? And we’re gonna have some time to talk about the board, not not leaving that topic for good, but just back on the staff side, is there a disconnect between what you can do and what, whether it’s a ceo or even fund-raising staff think that you can do sometimes there is again, it really depends on the sophistication of the organization and how much donorsearch research they’ve done in the past. So, you know, it’s it’s, sometimes i’ll get a call for example, from somebody that will say we have the names of five individuals we need for you to research for us, and we just need to know their networks, so just from that statement that tells me a little bit about them and how much they know who’s on that much they haven’t done that much because i can’t find out true network, right? You khun you, khun, provide lots of measures that we’ve talked about through the years from home values, tow boat values, you know, to places they’ve given and things like that and levels they may have given that you can provide lots of ah, data points. But you can’t definitively put put, put a number on net worth, right, right? And then, you know, it’s, an educational process where i let them know about what information i do have access to what i don’t have access to what’s public versus private, and then we have a strong conversation about, well, the number that you come up with the almost doesn’t even matter because you can find lots of articles, for example, on what bill gates networks is for warren buffet. But is he going to give what is going to get him to want to give to your organization? Are you already engaged in conversations with this individual? How? How accessible is this individual to you have they been giving and at what levels over the years, i think that’s a much more important conversation versus a number on a piece of paper. Yeah, and, you know, that makes me think of what i’ve heard a lot from clients, that they want to pursue certain wealthy foundations, and they’ll say, well, let’s, go after, you know, the names you mentioned let’s, go after gates foundation or, you know, others ford foundations because we know they’re so wealthy, but much more important question first does that foundation fund what you do there? All they all have pretty narrow worked that they’ll fund, and second, exactly what you’re saying, do they know who you are? You cultivated them at all. It doesn’t really matter how much they’re worth and how much thinking about every foundations, in my opinion, are the easiest group to research because they must report all their very transparent. They must report everything they file iris nine ninety, pfc, which are all publicly available, most foundations, even smaller ones today. Will it have some sort of a minimal website presence so that even if there has been a shift in focus from what a foundation has? Been giving to versus what they might be shifting and getting into maybe some new areas of focus. It’s, it’s all very public and easy to find versus somebody’s individual donor philanthropy is a lot harder to kind of put your finger on, so yeah, if they’re already having certain expectations of, you know, well, we can just go after that foundation because they’re wealthy. You can see how the the conversation could easily shift to then let’s go after all the wealthy individuals in our community simply because they’re wealthy, which is which is pointless. Well, that’s really a waste of time without without the right cultivation. If none of them are known, if none of them know who you are, you know i mean, you can get started, but you can’t solicit them right away. That’s that’s what i mean, but when i say it’s pointless, you can’t just ask them for money out of the chute. All right? So i guess if you wanted to tell staff, you sort of said it, but making explicit if you wanted to tell staff fund-raising staff new to prospect research. What? What it is you khun do. How would you? How would you sum it up so i would sum it up with what’s publicly available and what’s not so let’s. Focus on what’s not because that’s the least understood, i think bank bank account information, right? I do not have access to what anybody’s bank account data is all about. I have no access to credit reports, right? So i don’t know how much credit card debt they’re carrying. I don’t know how much they’re looking at in terms of car loan dead or even house debt. So the the entire debt side of the equation, i have no access to that information. Um also, if you happen to come across somebody who does own ah property in a trust, okay, well, at least that gives you a trigger that okay? This person has set something up in their state, planning a little bit more sophisticated. They’ve put their property in a trust, therefore, they may have ah, trust accounts somewhere else, but that trust account data is not publicly available, so you wouldn’t know, you know, you can’t go to a trust institution and say, i want to know the value of that trust and what the assets are in it because it’s simply not publicly available what else? Theo house and children information those air the hard pieces for me of the puzzle that are hard to find. And that’s where i think both staff and board who might be closer to that individual, could have some conclusions from information for me. In terms of, uh, how many children ages of the children so that’s very important, right? When you’re talking about the stage of someone’s life. And is this a really good time to solicit them or not? You know, for example, right now i have two kids in college. This is a really bad time. Yes. It’s solicit for a major gift debt equity ratio is very. You would want to know something like that about an individual so that the conversation can then perhaps flow in a different direction. Okay. We have a couple seconds left. Anything else you want to leave us with before we moved to the board? Yes. Stockholdings in salary information. Unless they’re considered insider at a public corporation, then i can indeed access data about salary and stock holdings. Otherwise, it’s not publicly available information. And you and i have talked a lot about insiders. What the definition of that is etcetera. Okay, we’re going to go away for a couple of minutes when we come back. Maria, you now keep talking, but we’ll move it to the board. Conversation around your prospect research. So stay with us. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Durney have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas and an average budget, tune into the way above average. Tony martin. Any non-profit radio ideo. I’m jonah helper from next-gen charity. Welcome back to big guy, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. How could you blow your own tagline like that? It’s. Unbelievable. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We know that, but i want to make sure it’s reinforced the idea. Okay. Maria let’s. Um, let’s. Talk to the board. What would you like to say? Anything different? Tio two aboard. I think for the board, my main goal really is to put the mehdi’s about what we find on and also how we protect the information that we do find. So wherever that information is stored at your organization, whether it be in a donor database, in hard copy files, whatever the case may be, let them know what you’re doing with the information so that they understand how we collected and how we protect it. I think that that’s very important and also what their role khun b in the development cycle, because prospect research is a piece of that. So how they khun specifically help to support identifying new prospects and also revealing current donors that we have in the database that perhaps could be elevated in terms of their giving. And as you have suggested, filling in gaps where information isn’t available or matter it’s very hard to find, for instance, like you mentioned family information that’s, right, that that’s also often very hard to find, but they might know that that person very well, perhaps they played golf with them or they know them through the chamber or something like that, so they’ve had some interaction with, um, whereas you as the prospect researcher or the maybe even part time room searcher on a staff, you’re playing some other role within the number non-profit fund-raising steph, you may not have access to that information because you’re not in in mingling and interacting with them, so yeah, they’re they’re often really great source of information for familial data, and i’ve often said on block this back-up a couple years ago, i remember, in fact, it was around the time when you and i first met first met online that i think some of the best prospect research comes from face to face conversations with people over over lunch or however you do your meetings, i happen to like meeting’s over meals, but face-to-face conversations you can learn so much about. Someone you absolutely can, but then the board needs to be educated about how that information needs to filter back to the non-profit right? So there’s got to be some sort of ah trigger or a mechanism or a processor, a procedure in place said if they are meeting with somebody, or maybe maybe the meeting was happenstance meeting maybe it was just just a meal and all of that in the conversation suede toward thie organization that that you’re serving on a non-profit board for and suddenly the prospect starts asking, you know, lots of trigger questions that would make you believe g, you know, they might have an interest in coming down and learning a little bit more about what the organization does you’ve got to be able to have them, i guess some train them to have a certain awareness, um, to look for this type of information so that it can be filtered back and that that together staff and board can then discuss well, is there somebody that we should be considering, you know, to make sure they’re at a future event or get on our mailing list or whatever the case may be? What? Are a couple of those things that board members could be listening for? Certainly they could be listening for the types of other non-profit that somebody is already engaged with. So if they the conversation turns toward, you know what, where they serve on board let’s say you’re a youth based organization, and you hear that this person is, you know, two counties over but very involved in certain youth based efforts in their neighborhood. That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t know sara lee have an interest in knowing what’s going on in your neck of the woods. So i think that just understanding where somebody’s charitable, general family’s interests lie is very important also, if you hear them talking about corporate boards that they might serve on that’s very important, because now that tells us that if that person serving on a corporate board and if that corporation is public, then we know we can access an awful lot of information about that individual because, again, they’re reporting it to the sea, and we can find out a lot about what somebody stock holdings are, what their compensation is for serving on that corporate board, etcetera, even non non-profit boards. That they might serve on because that that would lead you to believe that they have a propensity for non profit work. Exactly, exactly so, yeah, finding out what their their interests are because of the various boards, both corporate add non-profit that they’re serving on, you know, be kind of interesting, teo, i think spend a few minutes at a board meeting showing them how they can use their own linked in accounts, teo, to proactively mind them to try and find other people who have similar charitable interests to what they have, for example, right? That’s a report activity? Yeah, what other board activity they’re doing, but also, you know, i mean, i mean, for your board that’s ah, that’s a good activity. Ah, lincoln training. I’ll lengthen training. Yeah, okay, wait, i’ve you know, i’ve talked a lot about lengthen that we can’t we don’t have time to go into it, right? But i mean, you could definitely right get on, get on the agenda for a board meeting and in a fifteen minute span of time, if you’re just able to get fifteen minutes in front of the entire board and do sort of live lengthen. Just showing them, if nothing else, showing them that advanced search feature a tow how they can mine it. That would be a very useful time spent on the agenda of the board meeting. Excellent. Yeah. And i was going to ask, uh, your way have this energy. Well, it’s not really synergy. I don’t know. It’s a mind connect. Yes, energy is overused. It’s not that, but i i was going to ask, you know, how would how would we get on the agenda of a board meeting? As as the person responsible for prospect research, whether you’re you’re full time job or just a piece of what you do that’s a great hook, they’re linked in. Um other you got another tip. Maybe in just our last minute for getting on a board agenda. I think if you can proactively identify through sources like guide, star and foundation directories and so forth, who the family foundations are in a community outlined the list of trustees attached to those family foundations and come to a board meeting asked to be put on the board agenda for the sole purpose of china identify who has connections to any of these. Trustees so that we can start approaching foundations in our community in a different way. Where it’s a person to person entree first, as opposed to going in with a blind letter of intent or a proposal, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much, maria. You’re very welcome. She’s, the prospect finder, she’s at the prospect finder dot com and at maria simple on twitter next week. Gene takagi is here. We’ll continue our two hundredth show discussion on partnerships and other joint ventures. Jean takagi, of course, principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. If you’re smaller midsize shop, remember generosity siri’s for multi charity five k runs and walks. Dave lynn theo seven one eight, five o six. Nine, triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is on the board is line producer. The show’s social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules are music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Hey! Co-branding dick, dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Duitz e-giving thank you, cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? 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M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems block a little? Help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking call.