Tag Archives: feedback

Nonprofit Radio for April 25, 2022: Asking For, Receiving & Giving Feedback


Amy Drader: Asking For, Receiving & Giving Feedback

The mere thought of getting or giving feedback makes many people anxious. Yet normalizing feedback as a safe, productive, routine exercise will improve your team’s performance. Amy Drader from Growth Partners Consulting, reveals how to get to that higher state. (This is part of Nonprofit Radio’s coverage of 22NTC, the 2022 Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN.)

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[00:01:46.34] spk_0:
mm hmm. Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into Ankara rex sis if you broke me with the idea that you missed this week’s show asking for receiving and giving feedback, the mere thought of getting or giving feedback makes many people anxious yet normalizing feedback as a safe, productive routine exercise will improve your team’s performance. Amy grader from growth partners consulting reveals how to get to that higher state. This is part of nonprofit radio’s coverage of 22 NTC. The 2022 nonprofit technology conference hosted by N 10 On Tony’s take two ever sued a donor. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o From 22 NTC here is asking for receiving and giving feedback. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 22 Ntc. Our coverage continues. Of the 2022 nonprofit technology conference hosted by N 10 with me now is Amy draeger. Welcome Amy.

[00:01:49.84] spk_1:
Thank you. Thank you for having me

[00:02:16.34] spk_0:
Pleasure. A pleasure to have you on nonprofit radio Amy is consultant and leadership coach at growth partners consulting. Amy you’re session topic is asking for receiving and giving feedback. It’s very interesting. It caught my eye. Why do we have such a difficult and awkward relationship with feedback.

[00:02:34.94] spk_1:
Absolutely. I you know, it’s funny you brought that up because that’s one of the first questions I posed to the group at the session was and you tell me actually. So if somebody were to come up to you and say, hey, can I give you some feedback? What comes to mind? What’s that connotation for you?

[00:03:05.34] spk_0:
Well I try to say thank you. Yeah. You know what, what are you, what are you thinking? What what can I do, what can I help you with? Maybe what can I do better, what can I help you with? Uh you know, but it’s hard to not to personalize it, especially, you know, I’m the host of a podcast, although the podcast of course only gets positive feedback, it’s all, it’s 100% unanimous. I’ve been doing this for 12, 12 july will be 12 years. I’ve never gotten a negative comment. Natural. So so that’s feedback is easy to take. No, but you know, it’s easy to personalize it of

[00:03:07.30] spk_1:
course, you

[00:03:21.84] spk_0:
know, instead of you thinking about it being your performance, you know, you think about it being you? Me alright. Oh I did something, you know, especially I have my own business podcast, et cetera. Um, so but I try to be opening open to it and I like to think I am.

[00:04:48.64] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the majority of folks do try to do that. What’s interesting is I posed this question to the group and the reaction over 70% of the people in the session, associate feedback as either something bad, there’s going to be a problem or a correction of some sort or avoided the word entirely. So the organization didn’t even want to use the word feedback instead use advice, suggestions, recommendations. So there’s this connotation, that feedback is something back and you know, it’s, it’s kind of one of my missions in working with leaders and teams is to normalize it into information that’s intended to advance performance or intended to improve or help us grow. It’s just information. Now, naturally we are human. And so when we hear something about ourselves, we naturally go into threat mode, there must be something wrong. So exactly what you brought up. We try not to personalize it, but then we sometimes do and then we have to figure out ways how to navigate that. What we do know is talking about how the team works together, how a leader performs, how the team works with the leader. When we have open feedback on teams, we get better results, Teams perform better. And so that’s, that’s really what the goal of of having open discussions without feedback is really about.

[00:05:15.24] spk_0:
Let’s start with not banning the word back. Okay, The word is feedback. You know, like I work in plant giving fundraising. The word is death. We don’t have to say. People passed on, moved along, left us went to a better place they died. It’s okay, they died. It’s someone’s death has happened, death. So here the word is feedback. It doesn’t have to be advice or mentoring or, you know, whatever other euphemisms feedback don’t be afraid of the word feedback.

[00:05:28.04] spk_1:
Exactly, Exactly. And that’s that’s the whole goal. Let’s normalize it. And when we normalize it, then we can talk about it, keep relationships intact and then continue to improve in advance and achieve whatever those goals are that we want to achieve.

[00:05:41.74] spk_0:
Your description says normalizing feedback begins with asking, not giving Yeah, What do you mean? How do we start this?

[00:05:44.50] spk_1:
Yeah. So, so the so often people will come to me and say amy, how do you get feedback? And we’re very quick to want to give it to others and let others know what we think

[00:05:53.84] spk_0:

[00:05:55.33] spk_1:
right? Right. And and

[00:06:06.44] spk_0:
like my my modeling that is Larry David, you know, on curb your enthusiasm. I’m not this is not criticism. It’s help. I’m helping. I’m helping.

[00:06:08.12] spk_1:
Exactly. Exactly.

[00:06:09.62] spk_0:
But he’s he has the vindictive school of feedback. We don’t want to don’t want to go to Larry David model. All right.

[00:07:49.44] spk_1:
Exactly, Exactly. But really it begins with us asking for it and modeling how to receive it in a safe and productive way. So we demonstrate that we’re open to feedback. We embrace it as valuable information that’s helping us improve. People are going to be more likely to receive feedback from us. So it begins by asking for and receiving feedback and doing that in in, you know, I really say, there’s two high quality ways to do that um and the first one is to ask for feedback about something specific. So most people are not very good at giving feedback spontaneously. So the way to not ask for feedback is to just spring it on somebody, you’re like, hey, how do you think I’m doing? The person isn’t gonna know what to say about what? Right. So the first way to really ask the feedback is to do it about a specific activity. Maybe there’s a particular skill you want to improve upon. Um You know, a simple example is maybe you want some feedback in the organization on how you run a meeting. You might go to a trusted colleague or your boss and say, hey, listen, can you observe me in this meeting and watch how watch to see if I engage everyone in the meeting to speak up. I want to be sure that my the way I’m facilitating and engaging people, I’m doing it in a very equal and consistent way. So that’s very something very specific for someone to observe of you and then give you some feedback on it. So ask for specific feedback about something. It was interesting, we had folks in the session get excited about that um and and to be able to narrow in on something about their effectiveness and be able to get specific about it and get some specific feedback.

[00:08:02.34] spk_0:
Does that include asking a supervisor, you know, to be sure be that specific? Alright.

[00:08:24.34] spk_1:
Yeah. In fact, it’s funny you brought that up because a woman in the session said she often goes to her boss and says, hey, can you give me some feedback? I really want to be sure I’m doing my best. And she said her boss never has anything good to say. Her boss just says you’re doing a great job. Just keep it up. And that’s a good example of even leaders in positions may not be prepared to give specific high quality feedback. So giving them something to look for is going to help you get something of higher quality.

[00:08:44.74] spk_0:
Okay, okay. How does this all play into the annual or semi annual performance review? You know, you don’t have, you don’t have to ask for that. It’s coming whether you want it or not, it’s it’s coming.

[00:08:50.34] spk_1:

[00:08:50.94] spk_0:
what’s your advice? Maybe I’m jumping ahead. Maybe I’m jumping, you

[00:08:53.82] spk_1:
know, you’re

[00:08:57.94] spk_0:
stuck with a lackluster host. I’m sorry about that. So how do we how do we incorporate normalizing?

[00:09:02.72] spk_1:
Well, I guess we don’t

[00:09:11.04] spk_0:
have a normal, I mean that’s just part of the procedure, you know, it’s coming, it’s coming in a month or it’s coming in a year? Whatever. What’s your advice around that performance review?

[00:09:12.06] spk_1:
No, that’s a great question

[00:09:13.43] spk_0:
formal stuff.

[00:09:23.54] spk_1:
The the the the bottom line message with feedback is to have it uh frequently occurring throughout the year. And so, you know, one of the things we got into in the session was the right ratio, positive two critical feedback. And and what we know really well is that positive feedback motivates positive performance and that’s well established in, in psychology literature.

[00:09:42.13] spk_0:

[00:10:04.74] spk_1:
when it comes to your question about the performance management system or the performance reviews, by the time an individual gets to a performance review, there should be no surprises because the leader has been having conversations about performance the entire year and and none of that should be stockpiled for the six month review or the the annual review. Honestly, performance review should be no big deal because we’ve been having routine and consistent conversations throughout the entire year.

[00:12:17.74] spk_0:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They can help you with content creation. Content management and content promotion. The creation. Do you have documents that need to be written like an annual report or do you have research that you want to have produced? Maybe a case study, maybe an interview series, any big content project you want to get off your staff shoulders turn to can take care of it for you, the content management, that’s the organization. Do you want to create a blog? Do you want to need to organize your blog? All content management and and organizing so that you can find things that your team can find things. Everything is put together orderly, whether it’s on your website or some external site, that’s the content management and the content promotion. They have the relationships and they can help you build relationships with journalists, podcasters, other industry folks, industry, maybe related nonprofits that you’d like to partner with all to get your messaging your content promoted in all those different channels. Right? So the content creation management and promotion, do you need help with content with written words, video, audio speeches. Even though those are, those are spoken words, spoken words turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to asking for receiving and giving feedback. So should we go back to the, the normalizing process? So you know, All right, number one, So ask for feedback. So ask your boss, ask your, I mean, I think a good boss will be asking for for feedback from people who work for him or her.

[00:13:17.64] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s the second way of asking for feedback is to do it in a routine exchange. So, so I always share an example that it actually comes from a boss I used to work with, we had quarterly feedback sessions with each other and we would ask each other the same three questions and it was like, you know, what am I doing well and what contributes to our effectiveness together? What’s something I could stop doing and then what’s something new that I could try that might really help me out. And it was three questions that we ask the same every single quarter. And he would ask me those questions and I would ask him those questions and it would foster this routine discussion about how we work together and how our work affects the team. And the beauty of it is that it was expected. So it didn’t create this like a ton of nerves or concerned because we knew it was going to happen. So routine exchange and you bet happens with bosses too.

[00:13:47.74] spk_0:
And that also helps you prepare, you know it’s coming. So we’re doing this quarterly, it’s on our calendar, we have plenty of time to think through what what am I doing? Well, what what should I change? I noticed you didn’t say what am I doing? Well, what am I doing poorly? He said what am I doing? Well what should I

[00:14:21.24] spk_1:
change? It kind of depends, you know, I I would like to think if something needs to be corrected, it’s corrected in the moment. So if somebody full on makes a mistake and it compromises client relationships, safety depending on what type of work it is. The correction is done in that moment, we’re not waiting for a feedback session for that. So if something needs to be corrected because it’s a mistake that happens immediately. But when we’re doing performance exchange debriefs, this is really about advancing performance, taking it from this point today and take us into the future versus talking about the past to correct it.

[00:14:59.84] spk_0:
Okay, Okay, so so you have three questions, what am I doing? Well, what can I do better? Is that the way you, can I improve on, what can I improve on? Alright, and what’s new, what can I try? That’s new. You’d like to have me try all right now, this sounds like an ideal boss though, taking feedback from, from below, from those who work for him or her, I’m not sure that’s a typical scenario, is it really?

[00:15:33.84] spk_1:
Well, I would say if you have a leader who is embracing leadership best practices and a leader who was likely trained in leadership, it’s quite common and and it’s really, you know, being able to have conversations about how the team works together or performance is a part of leadership responsibility, so leadership is getting results through others. That’s really what being a boss is, is getting results through others. Now that said, there are plenty of people who are promoted into management jobs who don’t have the leadership skill set and so to your point, that may not be a part of the routine expectation experience,

[00:15:47.84] spk_0:
part of what? Say that again,

[00:16:01.14] spk_1:
I said, it may not be a part of the routine experience if you know, and and you know, folks took the session at intent because they wanted to beef up that skill set. So you bet it’s not one that that is always this common

[00:16:10.64] spk_0:
Alright, boss’s boss is listening be good to the folks working for you, uh you know, ask for their feedback about your

[00:16:13.18] spk_1:
performance. It’s

[00:16:14.37] spk_0:
it’s good for the whole team

[00:16:15.58] spk_1:

[00:16:28.54] spk_0:
Alright. Um Alright, we still have to talk about the personalizing but but since we’re talking about these feedback, the routine feedback that we’re now gonna have quarterly, right? Um this is done individually, I assume one on one, right. Not in a not in a group, not four or five people who work for one, you know, one vice president or something doing this uh as a team. No.

[00:17:09.14] spk_1:
Right, right. You can do team debriefs as well. In fact, teams that debrief together on their work Perform. I think that the last article I read was 25% better than teams that don’t do debriefs of performance. So you can do a group debrief and it’s for example, what are we doing really well as a team, what are our strength? Where can we improve? So yes, you can do a team debrief. What we were just talking about is exchanged between boston employee. Yeah, do that in in an office or private.

[00:17:29.94] spk_0:
Ok. Now, a team debrief, you need to you need to monitor that to make sure it doesn’t turn into finger pointing. You know, she doesn’t do this. Well, you know, she, I rely on her and she’s often late. You know, then the boss has to step in and say, well, you know, we’re off the we’re talking about a team, we’re looking macro level here, right?

[00:17:31.92] spk_1:

[00:17:33.01] spk_0:
If the monitor, make sure the thing doesn’t collapse.

[00:18:19.94] spk_1:
Yeah, absolutely. The content of feedback matters. So we’re talking about the activity right now. We’re talking about content of feedback and what what we advocate for. And you know, many folks who are having expertise and leadership development are well versed in positive productive feedback is what advances performance. Um Not only is it helpful to know what we’re really good at so we can replicate it, but when we’re recognized for positive performance, it makes us feel good, it makes us feel valued and as obvious as this may seem, when people feel valued, they perform better and that is well established as well. Um You know, there’s there’s lots of research that shows that when bosses show very simple demonstrations of gratitude, people perform their work more accurately, they perform their work better

[00:18:33.34] spk_0:

[00:18:45.84] spk_1:
when teams recognize each other’s strengths and when teams appreciate each other, they then perform their work tasks more effectively because they know their peers respect and value them. All right,

[00:18:47.14] spk_0:
Alright, positive, positive positive feedback causes positive performance.

[00:18:52.42] spk_1:

[00:18:52.54] spk_0:
mean, it’s it’s clear you said earlier, it’s clear in the research.

[00:18:55.79] spk_1:

[00:19:08.94] spk_0:
Positive. Okay. Some of it’s not going to be positive though. Some some feedback of necessity, you know, it’s gonna be negative if we’re let’s go to the personalization again, we touched on it. I’m receiving some negative

[00:19:10.82] spk_1:

[00:19:32.44] spk_0:
How do I how do I accept it best. How do I think through it best for really to self preservation. Let’s start with the self preservation before I before I start thinking about how I how it’s gonna help my team if I receive this. Well, how can I help myself to receive this? Well,

[00:19:43.64] spk_1:
yeah, absolutely. So if it sounds like um was it? Well, it can be you get feedback two ways. Either you asked for it or it’s sprung on you? Right. It’s a surprise. Either way, let’s say if you’re asking for it because that’s what I’m trying to normalize it.

[00:19:47.20] spk_0:
Right? Let’s do the ideal. You’ve you’ve asked for it and you you asked for it. You got it.

[00:19:51.21] spk_1:
Exactly. In fact, this just

[00:19:53.80] spk_0:
careful what you ask for it goes be careful what you ask for. All right?

[00:20:25.54] spk_1:
And and that is a worthy thought process, thought process to go through before you ask for feedback is take a step back and think about, okay, what might you hear? And just to prepare yourself and you know, some people get a little bit more extreme than others. Some people go to worst case scenario, whatever works for you because you are putting yourself out there even though asking for and receiving feedback is the way we get the great performance. It’s still can sting. It’s uncomfortable, right?

[00:20:26.78] spk_0:
You’re making yourself vulnerable.

[00:20:28.35] spk_1:

[00:20:29.73] spk_0:
absolutely discomfort. You know, you might consider it attack,

[00:20:33.50] spk_1:

[00:20:34.09] spk_0:
Alright, so, Alright, so you’re it sounds like your first advice is just prepare

[00:21:34.74] spk_1:
Yeah, just prepare for it. A second piece of advice is to consider it a single so you’ve received it. Okay, so you asked for it? You’re prepared. You received it and you’re like 00uch we’re quite prepared to take a step back, maybe take a deep breath and know that in the moment you don’t have to agree, this could be feedback that you received that you consider is wrong. Maybe you consider it unfair or you consider it hurtful and in that moment there is no need to agree to this feedback to explain this feedback to justify your actions. Take a step back and just thank that individual for their candor and that they had given you something to think about and process even asked for time. May I have some time to process this? Mhm. So take a moment to just thank that person because you did ask them for it. They delivered on what you asked of them. The last thing you want to do is punish them for doing something you asked them to do

[00:21:40.45] spk_0:

[00:22:54.34] spk_1:
Thank you. Don’t have to agree with it. Then give yourself some time and think it through. And and the first piece to remember is this is a single data point. So everyone has an opinion and a perception and ultimately a bias. And so when you receive feedback, you are also receiving feedback from a single data point from one source that likely is not a full representation of who you are. So go out and seek additional data points. This is where you might go and ask a trusted colleague or a trusted friend. Hey, listen, I received this feedback. I want to check it out with you and get more information. Now the key here is not to discredit the person who just gave you this feedback. That’s our experience and that’s our experience with you. There is truth in that. So you also don’t want to discredit it. Get additional data points and then take some consideration on how you might start to adapt your style. Maybe you might adapt the way you communicate with just this one person or maybe you, you might get more feedback that validates the original feedback and you realize, okay, now I I need to adjust my behavior or I need to adjust my work.

[00:26:05.64] spk_0:
It’s time for Tony’s take two. Have you ever sued a donor to enforce a gift or maybe an estate to enforce a gift? This came to me because there’s a recent piece, it’s from March in propublica about ST jude. Children’s hospitals practices around litigation uh, at ST jude in Memphis Tennessee, I can’t really comment on whether ST jude is appropriately suing estates or not. You know, I need a lot more facts than the article reveals and you can’t always trust media to get details like that. You know, 100% correct. But it gives rise to a really interesting question. You know, what factors go into deciding whether to sue a donor or again, you know, maybe a donor’s estate. Like how much is the gift worth? That’s important. What about the possible public relations fallout? Some people are gonna think you’re champions for your mission, other gonna other people are gonna think you’re scoundrels picking on widows, widowers and, and bereaved people or elderly people or an innocent family. So the pr fallout, you have to consider that how well known is the person that you’re considering suing. That’s gonna give rise to more press than, than less if the person is not very high profile, um, what are, what are your board impressions or board opinions? Your board is your fiduciary, uh, your, your, your, those are your fiduciaries. Um, you know, their opinions are going to be important. Can they come to a consensus? Lots of factors to consider. So just wondering if that’s ever happened to you, if there’s a story you’d like to share. You can let me know because I am interested, I used to be an attorney a long time ago, but you know, I still am interested in the legal side of fundraising and certainly planned giving, you know, if we’re talking about potentially suing estates. So you can get me at tony at tony-martignetti dot com if you have a share a story that you want to share all around suing a donor. Maybe in a state to enforce a gift That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got about a butt load more time for asking for receiving and giving feedback with Amy draeger a little shorter show this week. What if you’re asked to sign something? Uh This is a more perform, this is a more formal now performance review, semiannual or annual. Um There’s let’s say it’s a mixed bag you know but there are some things that you don’t agree

[00:26:15.92] spk_1:
with, some

[00:26:17.81] spk_0:
of it’s quite positive but some uh some is

[00:26:21.11] spk_1:

[00:26:26.44] spk_0:
unfair or wrong but you were then asked to sign the performance evaluation form.

[00:26:28.45] spk_1:

[00:26:48.74] spk_0:
usually the boss was I mean in my experience I haven’t been an employee for a long long time. I would be I would be a lousy employee. I could go I could go much stronger than the word lousy but let’s just leave it lousy I’d be a really lousy employee. Um When I used to do you know that I would say you know it doesn’t mean that you agree with it. It’s just that you have received it or something like that. You know you have to sign the form really don’t

[00:28:15.74] spk_1:
you? Huh? I think it depends on your organization and your HR policies so I don’t really know um I have some you know past experience in some organizations and HR was fine if you didn’t sign it, you didn’t have to you know. Um So I think it would depend on what the HR policy is but this is such a good example of not leaving feedback to these like specific events that occur. Um and where I see leaders really compromise candidly, their own credibility is where they’re not recognizing their team for their positive contributions and and and stick with me here because what I find and in fact we we talked about this at the intense session is that there was a lot of leaders in the room who said that they only said thank you or recognize positive behavior if someone went above and beyond or only if they thought about it. And so when we don’t recognize the good things that our teams are performing and doing then when it comes to having a difficult conversation. The context that’s even worse because we haven’t acknowledged all the positive contributions that the person has brought to the table and so that person will feel even more attacked. Undermined by getting this zinger of a negative piece of feedback out of the blue.

[00:28:23.54] spk_0:
So do you

[00:28:23.87] spk_1:

[00:28:25.64] spk_0:
what do you mean? Are are are positive feedback should be even around routine things that the team is doing well. Don’t ignore the d don’t ignore the day to day. In other words

[00:30:09.54] spk_1:
don’t ignore the day to day. And and that’s and the reason for this is that critical feedback negative feedback inhibits our learning in our brains. It triggers fight or flight and when we go into fight or flight, uh, we become very defensive, it’s that taking it personal component that we talked about this whole time. And what we know well is that when we get critical feedback, we then have these negative emotions that emerge, whether it’s shame, embarrassment, uncertainty, these are all very natural emotions that come up when we’ve made a mistake or we haven’t performed in the way our bosses wanted. Now this is why having routine positive feedback flowing on a team is because it creates this foundation of support. And so when I’m on your team and I’m working with you and we recognize each other’s contributions and then I drop wall. You gotta come and talk to me about that. You talk to me. But because we have this relationship where we’re recognizing each other and appreciating each other’s contributions. I know you’re not coming to embarrass me. You got my back because we already have this routine exchange of appreciating, appreciating each other. And so that’s what is critical for teams, especially teams that perform at the highest levels is that they routinely appreciate and demonstrate respect for each other. So that when they have to address the tough stuff, they’ve already got a positive foundation set.

[00:30:13.24] spk_0:
It’s like a relationship building, right? You want to, you want a strong relationship, whether it’s with your co workers, those who work with you for you, uh, above you.

[00:30:24.25] spk_1:

[00:30:34.34] spk_0:
donors, volunteers. You want to have a strong relationship. So that when there is some difficulty, maybe it even escalates, rises to the level of conflict you have, like you just said, I mean, you have this strong foundation and and it’s all kept in context.

[00:30:41.39] spk_1:

[00:30:41.97] spk_0:
not an isolated negative feedback because there’s never any routine positive feedback.

[00:30:47.84] spk_1:
That’s right. That’s right. And so, you know,

[00:30:50.66] spk_0:

[00:30:52.03] spk_1:
is, it is and that’s really what we are at work. We are humans in a relationship with each other. And so acknowledging our contributions and the value each person brings to the table ultimately helps everyone achieve the goal.

[00:31:28.74] spk_0:
And you, you said it so many times you used the word routine routine routine. Don’t wait till the giving Tuesday campaign that everybody, you know, killed themselves on for 4.5, 5 weeks or something, you know, don’t wait for the big gala. The fourth quarter fundraising routine routine positive feedback. So that then routine negative feedback is in the context

[00:31:32.04] spk_1:
of the

[00:31:32.34] spk_0:
more positive and the positive is most likely to outweigh the negative. Otherwise you have a you have an employment problem.

[00:32:18.24] spk_1:
That’s right. That’s right. And and there is a difference between positive routine feedback with occasional critical feedback to advance our performance, right? And performance management. When you have a habitual poor performer who’s lacking the skills to perform in the job there. Those are separate where we want leaders to create a habit around is appreciating the team demonstrating valuing someone’s opinion. Thanking people for speaking up. Um and and doing that, that level of routine feedback performance management is almost a separate topic.

[00:32:22.44] spk_0:

[00:32:23.03] spk_1:
okay. What

[00:32:30.14] spk_0:
else should we talk about around this, that that we haven’t or maybe anything that came up with the intense session, what what more do you want to

[00:32:31.78] spk_1:
Know? Well, I think, you know, um my first management job, I was 23, I had absolutely no training and um I had a team of 30 people. It was looking back on it three

[00:32:44.68] spk_0:
years ago, three years ago, you were leading 30

[00:32:46.65] spk_1:
People uh when I was 23.

[00:32:49.39] spk_0:
Yeah, three years ago.

[00:32:52.44] spk_1:
Oh Yeah, yes, three years

[00:32:54.30] spk_0:
ago. Okay,

[00:32:56.01] spk_1:
that was good. Anyway, very early in my career, I was taught the sandwich feedback model, have you heard of the sandwich

[00:33:02.73] spk_0:
sandwich feedback model? No, I don’t. Not acquainted with this.

[00:33:21.34] spk_1:
Okay, this is positive, negative positive. So you need to give someone some sort of critical feedback and you go in and you say something positive to them like, oh, tony you’re, you know, you’re such a valuable member of the team. I just think you’ve been doing a really good job these past couple of months. But you know, when you talk to that customer last week, you could have done this better, but hey, you’re really important member of the team and I

[00:33:28.92] spk_0:
just think you’re doing very, very, very the reality between, well, maybe it’s not between fantasies, but you know, very the reality in the middle very the hard part in the middle.

[00:36:45.93] spk_1:
Yes, exactly. And so the sandwich feedback model, positive, negative positive has since been studied and it’s wildly ineffective and it’s ineffective for all of the obvious reasons. The the employee feels that there’s a grenade in the middle of the positive feedback which undermines positive feedback. So the employee either doesn’t believe the positive feedback or just only listens to the positive feedback because there’s more of it than the negative. So the the key that when you do get to the place of needing to give feedback that you’re very direct and clear on the specific situation and not too muddy it with positive things beforehand. And this was something that was interesting in the session is we we talked through a framework for giving feedback that is um standard for positive or for critical feedback and it allows the person. So let’s talk about critical feedback because that’s really what people want help doing. That’s what makes people mixed managers the most uncomfortable. And so the framework for giving critical feedback begins with allowing the other person to self evaluate. Okay so let’s say I have dropped the ball in a couple of meetings and my first meeting started 20 minutes late and the second meeting, I forgot all the materials for it. Okay you’re my boss, you need to talk to me about it. The first step is to let me evaluate myself because if I already know I screwed up, there’s no need for you to pile on. So the first step is allowed self evaluation and tony you might say to me, hey me, how do you think those last two meetings with marketing went and you’ll just bring up the conversation and maybe I own it and say, you know what, I really dropped the ball on those two meetings or maybe the opposite happens and then I think I nailed them and I just think I was fantastic at this. You now need to share, share with me some candid feedback about these two meetings. So then described the situation from a fact based situation And described first meeting started 20 minutes late. Second meeting didn’t have materials, what do you think about that? So you’re asking me for my perspective then describe what that impact was? My reaction. Is that we started that this my reaction is that um this looks like we’re unprepared. Okay, it’s your reaction then state your expectation moving forward. I want to be sure we’re prepared for all of our meetings. How does that sound and support the person. So this is the framework for getting feedback where I’m going with this story, is that there was someone else who asked the question he said, but do you have a different way of starting it? Like is there a different way other than saying, can we talk about that meeting and what was coming forward is the person was just uncomfortable giving feedback. There was a need to have like the perfect phrase and giving feedback isn’t comfortable. That’s not the goal, that’s not the expectation. And in fact, if you’re someone who has to give feedback and you’re uncomfortable with it, I’d say that’s good because you’ve got some compassion there. You know, it’s an uncomfortable situation. Okay, So my point

[00:37:07.13] spk_0:
that you played sort of a therapist role in that evaluating what was what the core of her question was. It wasn’t opening the conversation. It was discomfort with giving feedback.

[00:37:27.93] spk_1:
Yeah, it was it was one of those things that I think because we’ve all been there, we’ve all had to give feedback and there’s this, you know, for some people it’s dread. And for others it’s just sheer avoidance. And it’s because we’re we we have this belief that giving feedback should be easy. It’s not. And so eliminating that from the expectation is important because if you feel discomfort, it’s okay. That’s pretty typical.

[00:37:39.63] spk_0:
I I appreciate that you say that’s compassion.

[00:37:42.33] spk_1:
Mhm. It is, it’s compassion.

[00:37:45.03] spk_0:
How did you get a leadership job over a person with a team of 30 people at 23? Is that right? That was that right out of college?

[00:38:03.62] spk_1:
Uh nearly I had one year under the book. Uh I had one year at the the organization, I think I was recognized at the time for potential. Like I had no past

[00:38:04.67] spk_0:

[00:38:21.42] spk_1:
And um, and I also worked for at that time the most influential boss I’ve ever had. And he taught me he was the kind of boss who grew leaders And he would invest 20 minutes with me every day, Those first like 90 days. And he’d quiz me, he’d asked me, Okay, what’s important to your team? What are your goals, who’s doing? I mean he would in

[00:38:35.52] spk_0:
20 minutes a day, 20 minutes a day For your first time for your 1st 90 days that is a real investment in a new employee.

[00:38:54.52] spk_1:
He did and I learned the most about leadership from him in that very short time frame. And so, you know, I also find that everyone benefits from having a great mentor and he ended up being a great leadership mentor for me. And so, you know, that could be a turning point in people’s careers, is to

[00:39:02.97] spk_0:
have somebody, somebody you want to shout out,

[00:39:13.02] spk_1:
oh sure I could. His name’s wade upland and he was my uh, this was 22 years ago,

[00:39:16.42] spk_0:
where, what was the organization?

[00:39:33.62] spk_1:
It was retail, it was a department store, retail, which, which lends to leading a team of 30 people. It’s probably one of the toughest leadership jobs out there because it’s shift work like people work in these shifts. And um, and it was for a department store that of course is now defunct, no longer in business,

[00:39:39.13] spk_0:
which one

[00:39:39.90] spk_1:
marshall field’s

[00:39:44.31] spk_0:
that was a huge brand, huge

[00:39:46.33] spk_1:
brand in the midwest. Yes, yeah, yeah,

[00:39:49.82] spk_0:
I know it because

[00:39:50.97] spk_1:

[00:39:51.72] spk_0:
I lived in Missouri for five years when I was in the Air force.

[00:39:55.12] spk_1:

[00:39:55.71] spk_0:
I may remember it from, this was

[00:39:57.37] spk_1:

[00:39:58.54] spk_0:
Mid Mid to late 80s,

[00:40:00.34] spk_1:
84 to

[00:40:14.91] spk_0:
89. So maybe I remember it from Kansas City here. I lived about an hour from Kansas City, I may remember Marshall fields, but that was a huge yeah, that was big. Alright, well not not not not because of your leadership experience and you’re not because of your skill. Had nothing to do with the downfall of marshall field.

[00:40:19.03] spk_1:
No, no, there’s there’s more external forces at play

[00:40:24.11] spk_0:
hard to imagine more powerful forces than than your leadership though. Right? Alright.

[00:40:29.81] spk_1:

[00:40:40.91] spk_0:
know, I don’t know what, well, I felt bad about the three year comment. I don’t know, it’s commenting on your age. That was probably a misstep. Alright, I feel bad about that. Um let’s see, Oh, anything else that came out of the intent. Any, it sounds like there are a lot of good questions, anything, anything else you want to share with uh with nonprofit radio listeners about?

[00:41:09.91] spk_1:
You know, I think, I think the biggest aha for me is, you know, consultants, we immerse ourselves in the content and and we start to believe that everybody thinks the same way we do and that’s kind of classic and I think one of the things that was so compelling for me was the candor with the group in questioning how frequently they should recognize someone for just doing what’s expected of

[00:41:17.31] spk_0:
them. And

[00:41:46.51] spk_1:
there was almost a resistance to do that and I found that very candid but also unfortunate because if there’s one thing we need more of right now is recognizing and appreciating each other. And so if there’s one thing that anybody takes away from listening to this or you know, reading articles on appreciation or on feedback is to go out and practice giving good feedback, recognize people for their contribution for the time they spend um because appreciating and valuing others is really what we need right now.

[00:42:00.90] spk_0:
Amy trader consultant and leadership coach at growth partners consulting. Where can we find growth partners consulting. Amy

[00:42:07.11] spk_1:
you can go to try GPC dot com.

[00:42:10.90] spk_0:
Try GPC dot com for growth partners consulting of course, this is terrific. Thank you very much. Terrific I think provocative, certainly timely. Well, timeless, really timeless and uh and and provocative too, you know, but but significant important topic. Thank you very much Amy,

[00:42:32.20] spk_1:
thank you. I really enjoyed it. Mhm.

[00:43:41.90] spk_0:
And thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of the 2022 nonprofit technology conference Next week. A break from 22 NTC coverage. The other tony-martignetti if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com, I own that he, the other guy does not own that were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our Web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Thank you for that. Affirmation scotty B with me next week for nonprofit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great. Mm hmm.

Nonprofit Radio for August 9, 2021: Performance Improvement

My Guest:

Heather Burright: Performance Improvement

Do you want to get the best out of your teams? That means getting the best from each player. Heather Burright recommends 360 Degree Feedback and she takes you full circle. She’s CEO of Skill Masters Market.



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[00:00:02.84] spk_0:

[00:01:52.54] spk_1:
And welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of inguinal hernia if I had to stomach the idea that you missed this week’s show performance improvement, do you want to get the best out of your teams? That means getting the best from each player. Heather Burr right, recommends 360 degree feedback and she takes you full circle She’s Ceo of skill Masters Market On Tony’s take two sharing, still is caring. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C o. And by sending blue the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue, what do you say? We get started. I want you to know we have a shorter show this week, it’s gonna be about 35 minutes. Okay, here is performance improvement. It’s my pleasure to welcome heather Barr. Right. She is founder and Ceo of skill Masters Market Creating dynamic people centric solutions that drive business goals. She has 15 years of experience identifying core competencies that are needed to see real results and creating the learning strategies needed to develop them. The company is at skill masters market dot com and heather is at heather burr. Right heather, welcome to nonprofit radio

[00:02:01.64] spk_0:
Hey Tony. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:03.54] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure, absolute pleasure.

[00:02:05.31] spk_0:
We’re talking about,

[00:02:12.94] spk_1:
we’re talking about performance improvement and you use this tool called 360 Degree Feedback.

[00:02:16.34] spk_0:
So let’s start

[00:02:17.37] spk_1:
With the Basics. What’s an overview of 360° feedback?

[00:02:59.24] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. Um so 360° feedback at 360 assessment is a great way to get feedback. It’s exactly what it sounds like to get feedback with that 360° view. So you can invite people like your supervisor, your peers, your direct reports, um other colleagues or partners. And you can get anonymous feedback all in one place and then you have some good comparison data. So you can see how you’re being perceived. There’s also a self survey as part of that. So you can compare how you’re being perceived to how you’re perceiving yourself. And it just gives you really rich information so that as you start to think about what do I want to work on, where do I want to invest? My time, my energy, my resources. You have some really good data to work with it to help inform. That’s you can prioritize your professional development a little better.

[00:03:18.44] spk_1:
That sounds very interesting to uh compare what you think of yourself to what others think of you. Do. You have you actually been doing this many years? You see a lot of um disparities a lot of in congruence between self assessment and the assessment that others have provided.

[00:03:33.54] spk_0:
There there can be for sure. I actually with 360 assessment, I feel like

[00:03:38.25] spk_1:
living in deep denial. Maybe

[00:04:30.84] spk_0:
It happens with 360 assessment. I feel like how you show up to different groups of people can intentionally be different. So what your supervisor sees may be different from what your direct reports see or what your pure C. And that might be okay. So it’s about taking that information, finding those discrepancies, finding that alignment and then interpreting it for your own your own work, your own lifestyle and and how you want to be. You know, showing up to all of those different groups. I actually do something and it’s not for for today’s conversation, but I actually do something called an intercultural development inventory, the I. D. I. A qualified administrator for them. And that assesses intercultural confidence. And there’s actually I’ve seen a greater disparity in that assessment than in 3 60 assessment assessments which typically assess more general or more common leadership competencies.

[00:04:51.74] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So in the intercultural intercultural assessment, people perceive themselves as more aware, sensitive conscious than they are perceived by others, correct? Yeah. Alright. Not surprised

[00:04:55.72] spk_0:
we do that a lot. Right. We do it for me. That’s why, you know, we all think we’re

[00:05:01.97] spk_1:
well, we all think we’re great people.

[00:05:11.24] spk_0:
We do and we are right there. We all have great skill sets and things that we can offer the world. But I think if you think about your to do list, right. A lot of us will tend to put too many things on our plate and then we wonder why we can’t accomplish at all. It’s because our perception is not always matched to our reality.

[00:05:26.44] spk_1:
Yeah, perception and reality diverge greatly. Okay, that could be this could be fodder for therapy to

[00:05:29.44] spk_0:

[00:05:47.24] spk_1:
but but when we’re gonna talk about coaching, because coaching, you know, you need I gather you need somebody to help you assess all this input that’s coming in and especially if you’re deeply divergent between what you think and what others think. You know, I can see how coaching would be critical so that you don’t jump off a cliff with these results.

[00:07:12.64] spk_0:
Yes, Absolutely. With 3 60 assessment, I recommend going through the assessment process which just helps to increase your own self awareness where you are, where you want to be and then working with a coach to help prompt you to action. So in the awareness face and you know, you’re taking this assessment process, it’s anonymous feedback. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going to get anywhere else. Most people aren’t going to just walk up to you and say your communication skills are not as good as you think they are. So it’s feedback that you’re not necessarily going to get anywhere else. And it can show that those discrepancies in that alignment which is really, really helpful. It brings a lot of self awareness to the table. But then during that coaching session you can start to identify action, focus on the action that you want to take. So you’re able to identify, you know, which skills are most essential to your current role and how did you do on those skills or which skills are most essential to a future role if you want to look at it from a future perspective, I know I want to move into this other position and his other role. And so what skills are going to be most important there? What do I need to work on to get there? And so you can start to consider what you might need to leverage, what are your strongest skills are, but also what you might need to enhance as you move forward. And then those skills which are identifying with that coach can become part of a custom action plan that you have. So again, you’re able to prioritize your professional development a little more. Okay.

[00:07:35.84] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So let’s take a step back where we get a little ahead, but that’s okay. Um Where what’s the, Alright. So you’ve already said this is confidential. It’s anonymous. All right. So it’s it’s really the best information we’re gonna get. Um it’s from all different, all different networks, so it’s people that are lateral to you, uh, working for you. Who you work for could be others. I mean, I don’t know in non profits. Might you go to you go to board members If there’s a relationship there, if there’s some liaison work there or something,

[00:07:44.94] spk_0:
would you go

[00:07:48.24] spk_1:
to maybe donors? Would you donors, volunteers that the person is working with or is that really not appropriate to ask them to participate in?

[00:07:55.58] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve not seen anybody go to donors, but definitely volunteers. If you’re if you’re working with them in a capacity where they’re going to see those skills at play. If you’re not working with them in that way, they wouldn’t make a good feedback provider. Right.

[00:08:09.69] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So volunteers, donors that seems like a little much to ask

[00:08:13.38] spk_0:
for to

[00:08:22.14] spk_1:
rate the person that you rate the fundraiser that you work with or something. Okay, so let’s identify the benefits for the organization That would do a 360 assessment.

[00:08:56.14] spk_0:
Sure. Yeah. So what I love about assessments is that they are strategic but also compassionate human center. Right? So when it comes to leadership development, professional development is especially important. You want your leaders to be better. You want them to be stronger for your organization and you want them to perform well. So assessing on those common leadership competencies gives a baseline that is both relevant to their work into your organization and practical. Um, but you also, if you think about the human center and piece of it, um, your leaders also have dreams. They also have goals beyond just your, their role at your organization. And so by having the 3 60 assessment, you’re able to assess those things, those competencies that are important for your organization, but you’re also giving them some ownership and what they do with that information. And so they’re able to tailor the action plan that they’re going to get out of this. They’re able to tailor that based on what their goals are within the organization as well. So whatever they decide to do will benefit the organization, but it will also be tailored to them and so they will benefit themselves, you know, their own development as well.

[00:10:00.04] spk_1:
So, I’m gonna ask about some outliers, have you seen cases where the assessment was just so bad that the organization decided, you know, we gotta just let this person go, like we just we can’t, there’s no performance plan, there’s no action, there’s no action worksheet. That’s gonna that’s gonna that’s going to bring this person along. It’s it’s just hopeless.

[00:10:49.44] spk_0:
Yeah. So I have not. My recommendation is not to use it to use a 360 assessment in a punitive way. Um and so you would only use 360 assessment if there’s someone that you want them to develop, you want to see them develop and grow within your organization. Um and in fact I recommend that the results are kept confidential between the participant and the coach and that no one else actually gets a copy of those results. I actually get that request a lot at the board level. If it’s the ceo that’s going through um the assessment process. The board chair will will want those results. My recommendation is not to do it that way. Um I also get a lot of requests for the 3 60 assessment to be the performance review. And that’s also not a great use of a 3 60 assessment. You want to do the performance review separately and then one of their goals through that performance review process might be to complete a 3 60 assessment. But again, only if you’re really invested in them growing and developing as a leader, not as a way to sort of move them out of the organization.

[00:11:11.54] spk_1:
Uh, it’s counterintuitive not using the assessment as a performance uh, evaluation tool. What what why is that? Say? Say a little more about why that’s not recommended.

[00:11:23.74] spk_0:
Yeah, I think so. For me, I think giving the 3 60 assessment to someone that you believe in and you are valuing their contributions, you’re going to have a lot better outcome. They’re going to be more honest in the assessment process. Their feedback providers are probably going to be more honest as well. And then they’re able to have a good honest conversation with their coach and they’re able to kind of lean into that vulnerability without constantly thinking. I’m going to get fired. Right. It’s actually really good useful information to grow. Um, and I would recommend 3 60 assessments for star performers, um, you know, just as much as I would for those that you are looking to develop a particular reason.

[00:12:09.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, so how do we get started with this uh, in the in the organization? I mean, if we’re gonna suppose we’re gonna do this enterprise wide and that could mean, you know, 456 employees for some listeners, it may mean hundreds of employees.

[00:12:24.33] spk_0:

[00:12:25.66] spk_1:
do we start this? Yeah. Where do we start?

[00:13:34.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So every organization is different. They’re going to approach it in a slightly different way. Um, The I work with a vendor that hosts 3 60 assessments. So those assessments are already created, their standard, They exist for different types of leadership, so whether it’s the Ceo executive director or um whether it’s more of an individual contributor, individual contributor or something in between, they have assessments um that are tailored to each of those different um types of roles within an organization. So I would, you know, first look at how do you want to roll this out? A lot of organizations will start with maybe a senior leadership team um to show that there, you know, modeling what they what they would ask of their other staff and so they might start with a leadership team, have a small group, go through this process and then look at adding some additional staff to that. Um The only thing that you would want to consider really is um radio fatigue. So if in an organization you are going to be asking the same people to provide feedback to multiple people at the same time that can get a little bit fatiguing and then they might not be as honest or they might not take as much time as they go through the assessment because they’re just trying to get through all of them. So you want the Raiders, the people who are providing the feedback to feel like they have the time and um, you know, the energy to get through those assessments as well.

[00:14:15.84] spk_1:
Yeah. Because if there’s a lot of people at the same level and you’re evaluating your peers, right? I mean you could have to be doing a lot of these. All right. So how do you overcome that spread spread out the time to give them more time to do. I mean, I suppose you have to do six or eight of these things. It

[00:14:24.57] spk_0:
sounds pretty company. I would start with a smaller group and then as that group finishes, you could look at bringing in another group to complete the assessment.

[00:14:51.14] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um, and then, so this is not something that sounds like it can be easily done in house. You’re saying you worked with a vendor that already has these these assessment tools published. It sounds like something that would be kind of hard to recreate in house and and do and do well.

[00:15:18.64] spk_0:
I think it depends on just the resources of the organization. There are really good off the shelf assessments where you don’t have to spend the money to create something that’s accustomed to your organization. You can a lot of um, a lot of the vendors who offer off the shelf assessments can also do custom assessments for your organization. But it’s it’s a fairly resource heavy project because you want to make sure that whatever gets created is statistically relevant. It’s a valid assessment and all of that. And so, um, to do that a lot of times, it does take more time and more resources to make it happen.

[00:15:32.84] spk_1:
What happens if there’s an outlier in the, in the Raiders, like one person rates somebody so high or so low compared to the other six or eight people that that rate, what happens to those outlier ratings?

[00:16:44.24] spk_0:
That does happen from time to time? You’ll have somebody who, um, you know, every question just about is really high or really low. Um, you know, I as a coach, I might ask the participant, um, if they have any thoughts about why that might be the case and we might have some conversation around, you know, why someone might be rating really high or really low. It is anonymous. So unless it’s the supervisor, they’re probably not going to know who said, you know who it is that’s writing them. It sounds like, um, but you can have some good conversation that way. Sometimes it there’s not, you know, anything that comes to mind that would make someone um be completely different than the other Raiders. And so, um, you know, you’re going to kind of go with the, with the theme across. And so if most people are reading you at a four and then one person out of one, um, perhaps that one person had one particular experience that they’re calling to mind as they’re completing the assessment. And so that’s causing those scores, that’s the person you

[00:16:54.48] spk_1:
keep their car when they took your parking space,

[00:16:56.81] spk_0:
right? You never know, you never know. Uh, So it’s information, but it’s not necessarily the focus because the theme is that most people are reading you in that for

[00:23:57.14] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications, you’ve heard me repeat the list of recent coverage outlets. People are getting coverage and you can too, the Chronicle of philanthropy, the new york Times, The Wall Street Journal. There’s more, there’s more, you know, it includes Usa Today and stanford Social Innovation Review and the Washington post in the Hill. You’ve heard it, you’ve heard the recitation, you want coverage like that. You want to be in outlets like these nonprofit quarterly Forbes Market Watch. You can turn to has the relationships to get you noticed to get you coverage to place you when it’s your turn, they got the relationships, they can make it happen. Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C O. It’s time for Tony’s take two sharing is still caring, who can you share? non profit radio with I was thinking it could be a lackluster colleague or maybe somebody who’s in another nonprofit or you know, a friend works elsewhere who you just happen to know is not at the speed mediocre lackluster because we’re talking this week about performance improvement. So whose performance do you want to improve? That’s the person you refer to? Nonprofit? radio They need to be listening. They got to up their game. They don’t want to be mediocre and lackluster any longer and you don’t want them to be, especially if they work in your shop, they’re dragging you down. It’s like when you used to, did you ever wait tables? Those who waited tables if if you did and sharing tips? Oh, that’s the worst. It was just last week, I wrapped it up just just late july uh years ago waiting tables. And we shared tips. The mediocre people bring you down and you know who they are. You know, you can hear them at the adjacent tables, the adjacent station. I was always mediocre. At one thing I was terrible, worse than mediocre. I was always terrible at cappuccinos when somebody ordered a cappuccino and I had to face that daunting high, highly polished copper machine with the nozzle for the milk and the foam and the knobs and the gotta press the espresso in right and just the right pressure. And milk has to be the right temperature. And this this machine just scared the hell out of me. Just to look at the thing, I didn’t even like walking by it. Like I would, I would get we get we get sweats. Just walking past it, let alone I had to face off with the thing when somebody ordered a cappuccino or God forbid a table table of four or six. Yeah, well all around our cappuccinos. Oh my God. Every other table in my station is going to be half an hour late now while I fight with this machine to get the milk to the right temperature in the foam and the right consistency and the ooh, cappuccinos. My death. I really, somebody who wrote a cappuccino. You sure you don’t want a limoncello? Have a limoncello said on the house. Give the table around limoncello shows if you will, you alone will just not get a cappuccino. All right, That was my bane as a waiter. But so, so, but that didn’t bring the tips down because everybody got free drinks because I hardly reported once. I got smart. Of course the house didn’t like it, but they never knew. Um, so, you know, so the tips are actually, we’re better because I was given free drinks for everybody to bribe them away from a single cappuccino. So that aside the, uh, the sharing of tips, I hated it. The poor performers were always dragging us down. We’re killing us every night and I could hear them. You know, they’re low energy. They forget what the specials are. They read the specials off their little, their parchment paper, little little note pad because they couldn’t afford to buy a new one because their tips are so low because they’re so poor and they were going to drag me down with them. Well, first of all, I didn’t use the little, I used to memorize the specials. I never liked looking at that because the thing gets red wine spilled on it and you know, it’s, it wouldn’t get cappuccino on because I didn’t know how to make them, but it might get milk on it as I was trying. So the poor performers, the poor performers in your nonprofit, I’m bringing it back. I’m bringing it back. Don’t worry. Uh huh. You know, they’re dragging you down. So you got to refer them to nonprofit radio That’s it. You want to raise the level of all the boats? Wait, you want to raise the level of the whole sea, right? You want to raise, you want to, you want to raise all the boats. You’ve got to raise the sea. That’s what it is. Or the yacht basin. So your organization, you’re not profit That’s the yacht basin. You gotta, you want to raise all the boats. You’ve got to raise the sea, refer these poor performers to nonprofit radio That’s the point. That’s where I’m headed. All right, cappuccinos and limoncello. So who can you refer? non profit radio too. I’d be grateful. Remember board members to if you got any friends, their board members, board members are great listeners. They use it to stimulate conversation to stimulate thinking. Very valuable. Plus anybody who works for a nonprofit, naturally, thank you. Thanks for thinking about it. Who you can refer. non profit radio to that is Tony is take two. Send in Blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with the tools to help you build end to end digital campaigns that look professional, they’re affordable and they keep you organized digital campaign marketing, Most marketing software, huge price tag. Right? With that enterprise level. No, no. Send in. Blue is priced for nonprofits. You heard the ceo say it on the 5/100 show, there was only three shows ago. It’s an easy to use marketing platform to walk you through the steps of building a campaign. You want to try out sending blue and get the free month, go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for performance improvement and what form do people who are rated, get this information in? Is it something quantitative or is it narrative or both or what are they seeing? What’s each person who gets rated, seeing?

[00:24:44.04] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. So um the vendor that I work with particularly um and I think this is true of other vendors that I’ve seen as well. Um there is data that’s involved. So you will be able to see for each question how you were rated, you’ll be able to compare those scores by the different radio groups. Um a lot of times there is um an opportunity to roll that data up as well so you can start to see overall what are my strengths and my development opportunities. Um And then there’s typically something a little more qualitative included as well where people can kind of open comments provide feedback and you can spend some time looking at that as well.

[00:24:59.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um and let’s talk more about the coaching and the and maybe the work plan that goes along with improving areas that aren’t so strong um How long does that last or what does that look like?

[00:25:57.64] spk_0:
Yeah. So um the assessment process itself can take a few weeks just to get that feedback. You know, you can do yourself assessment, you’re gonna invite your Raiders, they’re going to go in, provide their feedback, is going to generate the data, the report for you. Um And then the coaching session you want at least one that I would say is the absolute minimum want right to go through that data. Um If you’re really looking to see that person um that participant make progress on their action plan, so we’re making progress toward their goals. Then I definitely recommend looking at a longer term relationship with that coach because they can start to become an accountability partner. They can continue to prompt them to action, they can continue to help them think through how they’re going to apply what they’re learning on the job. And so there’s just a lot of value there. Um I would say that about that um does vary by organization as well. Um But if you want to see you know those results um and see the action being taken. Um I would say at least three months um Probably longer to to watch that behavior start to change.

[00:26:29.24] spk_1:
Uh Tell us a story about an organization or it could be a person. Um I kind of like the organization level if you have a story like that, like what you saw, you know, you saw them go through this process and you saw improvement among keep people in the organization and they don’t have to be senior leaders. But you saw you saw improvement, you know, you saw a benefit come out of this whatever, eight months later, a year later, a year and a half later, you know share a little story.

[00:28:33.14] spk_0:
Yeah. So um For I guess for anonymity sake I can share my own story because I have been through the 360 assessment process myself. So I when I went through through 60 assessment process, um some of the feedback that I received was that I needed to use my voice more that I had you know, good ideas when I spoke up and that I needed to, you know, speak up more and make sure that people heard and valued what, you know, whatever it was that I had to say. And it was something that it was a piece of feedback that I found very interesting because I felt like in some environments I was pretty quick to speak up to, you know, take a lead in something, um to have my voice heard, and then in other environments I might be a little less likely to do that and just kind of depended on the situation, what I was in a lot of cross functional project teams at the time, so, you know, what was my role on that project, who was leading that project? That kind of thing? To me, it all felt very strategic about when I was using my voice and when I wasn’t, but with that feedback, right, that’s information. So with that feedback I was able to um start to think about how do I want to use my voice? And um when do I want to use my voice? And what would it look like or what would it feel like to be heard in in different settings. And through that process, I was able to um more intentionally start speaking up not just in meetings, but also um, you know, one on one with my supervisor and say, you know, hey, I’m interested in this or I want to know more about this or I think we should do this or whatever the case is. And I was able to start using my voice a little more intentionally and within the organization. Um, and saw from a, from a career perspective, saw my own, my own career start to open up and and grow quite a bit from that.

[00:28:51.94] spk_1:
And so the feedback you got wasn’t as nuanced as you would have, you would have thought it would be, like you said, certain situations you would deliberately reticent to speak up and others you were more vocal. But the feedback wasn’t that nuanced,

[00:29:31.24] spk_0:
correct, correct. Because if my if you think about like my peers, they’re seeing me in different environments or my partners, I was working on a lot of cross functional teams. So I had partners from all over the organization that we’re providing feedback. And so depending on which projects I was working on, I might have been leading the project or I might have been just a contributor on the project. And so depending on what my role was, I was showing up differently in those settings.

[00:29:46.54] spk_1:
Right? Each people, each person, so you differently. They didn’t they didn’t see the full breath. Right, all right. But overall you took it as I should speak up more, I should be more assertive I

[00:29:49.74] spk_0:
guess. Okay, Absolutely, and just think about how I’m being perceived as well, right? Within a within a meeting or a team,

[00:30:01.74] spk_1:
and then how about developing an action plan? Uh what what do you do that in conjunction with the coach, or how does that, how does that look? And how long is an action plan last?

[00:31:11.44] spk_0:
Yeah, so I recommend doing that in conjunction with a coach, at least on that first coaching call to have um something in mind that you’re going to be working towards. So I typically go through kind of the who what when where why, how questions. So you know, what is it that you want to do? What you want to focus on, which confidence e is standing out to you? Which area are you believing that you want to develop in some way? Again, it could be enhancing um are leveraging a strength that could be enhancing something that’s a little bit weaker, but what is it that you want to work on and then how are you going to do that? Are you going to go to a trading? Are you going to participate in a leadership program? Are you going to start listening to podcasts like this one about, you know, whatever topic you’re trying to work on, what is it that you are going to commit to to develop that particular skill? Could be taking on a different project at work, right? That, you know, is going to challenge that skill set. So um thinking through your options and deciding how you want to develop that skill and then also without putting a timeline to it. So when when are you going to start, um what are the, you know, milestones that are going to be along the way? How long will it take you to complete whatever it is that you’re deciding you want to do? Um and then from there, who who’s gonna help you, who’s going to help hold you accountable, we know that most people don’t just change automatically. So you think about the number of people who don’t follow through on their New Year’s resolutions, right? It takes more than just knowing that you need to change or even sometimes having a desire to change. And so who can help you, Who can be that accountability partner for you to make sure that you’re working on this goal? And again, it could be the coach, but it could be someone else as well. Could be a supervisor, it could be appear um a partner even and someone just in your life that’s going to help help you, you know, work towards your goals. And so going through some of those questions, you’re able to put together an action plan that includes things like that timeline, how long you’re gonna be working on it?

[00:32:27.04] spk_1:
What do we do for the folks who really just don’t take this feedback? Well, maybe there are strengths, but they’re not, they’re not acknowledging those, or maybe maybe they don’t have strengths identified. Uh let’s just say it’s objectively, it’s well, forget subjectively it’s taken as very bad. Forget how it looks objectively. The person has taken it very badly, very hard.

[00:33:18.14] spk_0:
It happens. What do we do, what we do? So, a skilled coach will probably do one of two things. They killed your coach, I believe I’m a school coach, but it still coach will likely do one of two things. Um, one try to on that call get to at the bottom of that feeling, basically what’s causing it. Why am I getting such a reaction from this information? Um, just trying to understand perhaps there is something that is triggering the reaction beyond just what’s on the paper, so to speak. And so having that conversation can actually sometimes move people into a new place, a better place to have the conversation that you actually want to have another option. And another thing that is still coach might do is just asked to reschedule the call because sometimes

[00:33:32.16] spk_1:

[00:33:32.76] spk_0:
reschedule the call the

[00:33:34.82] spk_1:
call. Okay,

[00:34:02.34] spk_0:
Right. Because sometimes there’s just something whatever it is, whether it’s a data point or a comment that has been included in the feedback, something just hijacks you and you can’t move past it in that moment. But that doesn’t mean that two weeks from now, one week from now you wouldn’t be able to move past that. And so sometimes having some space can can be really beneficial. And so just saying you know what sounds like this is not gonna be a good time for us to have this conversation. Why don’t we reconnect on Tuesday and then you’re giving them some space to kind of think through in process what they’re what they’re learning in the assessment.

[00:34:17.04] spk_1:
Okay. I can see how some people can take it hard.

[00:34:19.24] spk_0:
Absolutely, absolutely right. There’s that one comment in the comment just really

[00:34:24.61] spk_1:
maybe you’re even thinking I know who said

[00:34:27.10] spk_0:
that. I know who that was. He killed me. Yes. People spend time trying to figure out who said what and it’s not that’s not the point right of the assessment. And so helping them move past that can can be part of the you

[00:34:43.84] spk_1:
had people plead with you to tell you, oh come on. Who said that?

[00:34:49.94] spk_0:
Well as a coach, I don’t know who said it. So

[00:34:50.55] spk_1:
it’s anonymous to you.

[00:35:04.34] spk_0:
It is I might know for the for the data points I know which group it came out of and they do too, but not necessarily for the open field comments. Um And so it’s you know, you can think about this all day but it doesn’t mean you’re going to get it right. And then what if you do what then what you know what’s going to change for you? How are you going to use that information? So now I’m now I’m blowing

[00:35:14.18] spk_1:
this up. Like have there been cases of retaliation where somebody confronted somebody? I know you I know you’re the one who wrote this.

[00:35:20.72] spk_0:
I would guess somewhere in the world that perhaps that is the case, but I have not experienced. Haven’t

[00:35:29.32] spk_1:
seen that. Alright. No workplace blowups

[00:35:31.92] spk_0:
or confrontations

[00:35:37.94] spk_1:
Over 3 60 assessments. All right. All right. Um All right. What else, what else would you like us to know? We’ve still got we got some time left. What? Like what? I haven’t I asked you that you think folks should know about 360° feedback.

[00:37:37.83] spk_0:
Yeah, I would just add that. So I work with with nonprofit leaders to help them create scalable learning strategies and um, you know, oftentimes when there is some sort of learning needs some sort of professional development need we go to training and I create training. So I’m biased. I I like it. I think it’s a great solution, but it’s a solution. And I think pairing any other sort of professional development program, um like a training with a 3 60 assessment is actually even more valuable because if you’re able to assess your skills first and then say here’s where I need to improve, here’s where I need to focus. And then you send them through say a leadership training, they have that skill set in mind as they’re going through that training, they’re focused on that particular skill set, whether it’s you know, communication or relationship building or whatever, they’re focused on that, they’re going to get that out of it and then you’re going to see some really intentional transformation because they had the assessment process first. So when I think about creating scalable learning strategies for organizations, it is thinking through that whole process, How can we make sure that we’re being strategic that the organization is getting what they need, but then also thinking about the individual within the audience. So things like 360 assessments combined with formal training combined with coaching um can actually be a really effective way to see people grow and develop. I think, you know, for me I think people are worthy of investment and then I think investing in your people make them feel valued and gives them a new new skills and a new passion for their work. Um and as leaders in our organizations, we get to create that environment, we get to create those opportunities so that our people can thrive. And so an assessment is one great tool that you can use in conjunction with many other tools to help your leaders grow and develop.

[00:37:57.53] spk_1:
So then by coalescing all the assessment data for all the individual people, you’re saying you can target training enterprise wide that that helps lift lift skill deficits that that are like common across lots of people in the organization.

[00:38:06.32] spk_0:
You can you can even if you have a general leadership program, if you’re individuals have gone through the 3 60 assessment process, they’re looking to develop particular skills. And so they’re going to be looking to find that you often find what you’re looking for. Right? So they’re going to be looking to find whatever that is in a leadership program. So even if it’s a more general program that you’re offering or you’re sending people to the 3 60 assessment gives that individual information so that they look for that when they’re in that program.

[00:38:39.11] spk_1:
Yeah. Right, Right. As you said, they’re looking they find what they’re looking for.

[00:38:44.29] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely.

[00:38:46.82] spk_1:
Okay. All right. We’ll leave it there heather. What do you think?

[00:38:49.42] spk_0:
That sounds good? tony Thanks for having me.

[00:38:57.52] spk_1:
It’s my pleasure. Absolutely heather. Bright Founder and Ceo of skill. Masters Market. The company is at skill masters market dot com and she is at heather burr. Right, thank you again heather,

[00:39:05.52] spk_0:
thanks tony

[00:40:36.32] spk_1:
next week. The final 21 ntc show. If you missed any part of this week’s show, this my voice just crack like I’m 14 this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. You think I would go back and audacity and take out the, uh, the voice cracking. But no, I’m a human. My voice cracks. You know, that’s, that’s the way it is. We’re, you were not striving for perfection. I mean, I’m striving to be good, but perfection. You got a lackluster host, you know, that were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c O. Yeah, I do strive to make the show is better each week, naturally. I mean I am, I am uh, aiming high but perfection. Mm I don’t think we’re gonna get there together. We’re also sponsored by sending blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. Here we go. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott Stein. Yeah, thank you for that information scotty. He wrote me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. Yeah.

Nonprofit Radio, May 4, 2012: Survey Savvy & Content Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Paul Gearan
Paul Gearan: Survey Savvy

Paul Gearan, a partner at Professional Survey Group, explains how surveys are cultivation tools for your donors. You can increase awareness of your work; gauge willingness to support; heighten sensitivity to challenges; and get feedback on how you’re doing. But you have to do it right if you want reliable results.

Please take a moment to take the survey for this week’s discussion with Paul. You’ll find it here at the end of the guest and segment descriptions. Thank you! If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it.

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Content Marketing

Scott Koegler is our long-standing technology contributor and the editor of Nonprofit Technology News. This month he encourages you to give away high quality, interesting content through your blog. You are blogging, right?


Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey, the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CXHJPHR

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but a small budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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Make sure to tune in at 1pm ET on Friday and you can share your observations on Twitter by using the #NonprofitRadio hashtag on Twitter.

Here is the link to the audio podcast: 090: Survey Savvy & Content Marketing.
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No. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for may fourth twenty twelve big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host i do hope you were with me last week, i couldn’t stand knowing that you had missed, get monthly givers and strategic organizations, raised more money, get monthly givers was bob wesolowski the president of caring habits, and he helped us get habitual monthly donors through electronic funds transfer. A lot of people know that as ft that was pre recorded, a tte philanthropy day two thousand eleven and strategic organizations raised more money. My guest was starita ansari, president and chief change officer at msb philanthropy advisors. She encouraged you to organize thoughtfully around your mission, looking strategically at your inputs, outputs and outcomes to boost your fund-raising revenue that was also pre recorded at philanthropy day last year. This week, survey savvy paul gear in a partner at professional survey group explains how surveys are cultivation tools for your donors. You can increase awareness of your work gage, willingness to support it, heightened sensitivity to challenges and get feedback on how you’re doing. But you have to do it right if you want. Reliable results and content marketing. Scott koegler is our long standing technology contributor, he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, and this month he encourages you to give away high quality, interesting content through your blogged you are blogging, aren’t you between the guests, tony’s take to philanthropy jargon, do you speak and write in terms that people can understand? You can use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter were also on linked in i’ll say more about that later on, tony’s metoo right now we take a break, and when we return, i’ll be joined by paul gearan for survey savvy. Stay with me. Yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. No. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s a lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna durney welcome back with me now is paul gearan. He is a partner in the professional survey group. He has extensive experience in survey design, online surveying market research and social science research. His career has been focused around research and data analysis for the past twenty years, and i’m very pleased that his practice brings him to the show. Paul garin, welcome. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s. A pleasure to have you how useful are surveys for small and midsize charities? You know, i think for a lot of organizations, they really provide some core informations that oftentimes people within organizations kind of our internal debates about and there’s not always great clarity with what some of assumptions are being made. And i think research with particularly donors and stakeholders, but also uses of charitable charitable services give you a lot more specific. Clary on whether your fulfilling the elements cia mission that are most critical to you and most critical tier donors. So i think in that regard, you know, this becomes critical information not only to kind of get a sense of an evaluation on how you doing now, but also if you’re involved in long. Range planning and trying to look toward the future of how you should evolve on dh. Part of what you said is you could resolve some internal differences about the way things might be going or the way things should go. So maybe some of those internal arguments can be resolved this way. Yeah. I mean, i think that’s one thing that, you know, it’s funny, because when you work with people who say what we know all this we know we know we know exactly, you know how people feel about us or you know how we’re doing, and we know what our strengths and weaknesses are, and then you start to talk to different people in the organization. You find out very different assumptions with many people. So part of part of the problem might be unwillingness toe do the survey because then you have reliable information and your opinion might end up being the wrong one. Yeah, and that becomes a challenge for us is outside consultants and how to be able to do the research that they get away that’s not biasing any particular perspective and be able to present it in a way that people understand and take, you know, internalize that taking an understanding and continue to to think about things because we were we don’t have an agenda, we want to get to what what reality is and i think that’s one benefit of sometimes of having another group that’s outside your own organization do the research because you don’t have a kind of bias voice, right? That objectivity just you have to be willing to recognize that your side of the argument might be the loser exactly and, you know, like with everything we try, destruction is not, you know, presented that there’s winners and losers, but there are certainly times when you come down on a certain side and things are unambiguous when you, when you survey people and, you know, eighty percent say they don’t they don’t think you’re doing a very good job of this particular element of of your portfolio of services that you know, that that’s meaningful, that that’s pretty undebatable and one of the survey questions that we ask and i want to thank you for designing our first professional survey. Thank you very much. It’s usually it’s usually the hack job that i do, thank you thank you for for lending your services to the to the survey before the show, and one of the questions we asked is how satisfied are your key donors and stakeholders with the performance of your organization? Currently and three, two thirds said either very satisfied or somewhat satisfied. But then roughly one third, about twenty nine percent said i’m not sure, so they’re not there there’s some uncertainty there about what their donors and stakeholders think about how they’re doing. Yeah, and i think that’s, you know, that’s where we you know, where we come down in terms of how important this is, if, you know, a third of people really don’t have a good sense of that, you know, how do you move forward and know that the measures you’re taking the programs you’re supporting, the way you’re administering it all the way you’re going out and trying to get external support for our right and are going to be solid going forward? It’s certainly difficult to know if you don’t have some kind of reed and even the kind of very, very southside, somewhat satisfied, you know, that kind of comparison, although i think when you just research you find most people are somewhat or very satisfied, but, you know, is the bigger bucket very satisfied? Because those are the passionate people, supporters, those of the people that, you know, i really going to stand by you in the long term, somewhat somewhat satisfied, you know, they’re going to be the kind of people that i got more loosely affiliated affiliate in terms of long term, long term support. So you know, those those ki kind of things we bring to the table and be able to kind of say, you know, hey, yeah, eighty percent of your people your donors or somewhat are very satisfied, but, you know, only thirty percent of very satisfied and that you want to see flip, you want more people that kind of passionate what’s called top box, okay, right, i got you so yeah, so so don’t be so satisfied with somewhat satisfied, exactly what’s outside it is you’re doing fine, but in a world where, you know, people have a variety of different ways where they could distribute this support and all, i’m sure deserving causes, you know, being in a somewhat satisfied bucket doesn’t really distinguish you. Got, you’re ok, and in our survey was about forty three percent were eyes felt that their donorsearch stakeholders were very satisfied, there’s about twenty nine percent somewhat satisfied we have just about a minute before break, you can also be surveying people outside your donors and stakeholders, right? Amore amore, broader audience, maybe just your community? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, i think, whether it be local community, if you can, a local organization or we’ve done work for international organizations that we’ve done national studies forward to get kind of general population awareness. So for example, if you’re, you know, organizations say your aa group focused to its animal protection there’s a lot of those kind of groups out there, you know, where do you fall in terms of visibility compared to those other organizations? And what could you do to perhaps increase that? Where do you need to? Kind of kind of do your messaging? You know, what were the vehicles for communication and also one of the important messages that you need to get out there you can connect with? Ah, wider population. That may be more supportive of your group when there’s other competition. Come on. I hate to say competition, but not-for-profits. But obviously there’s people in the same space, all doing great work and believing in the organizations you know, that want support. We’ll take a break. Paul. Paul here is going to stay with us. We’re going to continue talking about surveys and survey savviness, so stay with us. Co-branding think dick tooting getting depicting you’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. Nothing. Good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that come mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rotter with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. The ladies said it for me, so i don’t have to say big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Paul, we were just talking about maybe surveying beyond your immediate donors and other stakeholders. But when you, when you do survey dahna people who are committed to you, it sounds like i mean, there could be some value around helping you to focus your mission in your core. Yeah. No, i think when you, when you talk about people that are closest to you, there’d be a core donors or donors in general or other stakeholders like, you know, people in the legislator that might legislative that might be supportive of you. You know, other advocates in the area that the different kinds of stakeholders beyond just a donor base, too. Yeah, but i think that’s where, you know, you really get a sense of people that know you well that care about the cause that are a little bit more discerning. And even the research you might be able to split those people out to where your core people, who were the people that know you best and who are kind of people providing regular donations cubine may not be tracking his services in consul here’s the core people were, and i’ve done that kind of research before. We’ve is it? Okay, here’s, the stakeholders that really know you well, what do they think of you? What does the kind of broader base of support think ofyou and kind of look at that? But i think that’s where you really get are we on our mission? Are we feeling the promises that we were making to the community that we’re serving into the people that supported think that if if they don’t, then you’re in real trouble? So if you find out that you they think you’re kind of falling short on a couple critical pieces of your mission, well, it’s, time to reflect and see is that a statement of messaging in information? Or is it truly a deficit in the services you’re providing? This could also be valuable in doing strategic planning. I mean that’s basically everything you’re saying could could contribute to a strategic planning process. Absolutely, because i mean that that’s the element we’re dahna only checking on how you’ve been doing, but what are the existing are you keeping up taste with the existing needs of the community, the population just serving so you may have done a very good job continue to do the job in your basic mission, but are there new challenges in us space that air coming up that maybe you’re not keeping apace with fast enough that, you know, for five years down the road, you that’s going to be the critical area that they would like you to see serving? So, you know, it’s a matter of how we doing now, but, you know, looking forward, one of the critical issues moving forward that maybe, you know, obviously you just think about the last he isn’t changing economic landscape suddenly the needs of people and in the nation at large, in the world at large have changed quite a bit, so you can imagine tryingto strategic plan five years ago when everybody the economy was hail and going full steam and and how that changed so dramatically and how you might need to change your kind of perspective and outlook long term as an organization, if you’re gonna serve people that now might be having additional challenges that didn’t. Exist a few years ago. What about just surveying aboard? I mean, could you use this as a way to anonymously gather opinions of just your board members? Absolutely, you know, always tricky because, ah, few key comments on they reveal their name, but that’s kind of one thing that again sometimes using outside organizations helpful because we can kind of get that and not only kind of, you know, clean the data such that, you know, we present things back to people so we can be sure indemnity, but also kind of educate, like, how do you use this information? But absolutely, we’ve done that kind ofthing, not boards employee research is are the people in your organization believing that you are on on on the beam with what your mission is with what your services? And sometimes we done both rose, since we’ll survey kind of outside populations donor, and then inside populations are those consistent, you know, people seeing problems that the outside world is seeing that are a sign of future issues are going to struggle with or vice versa, you know, you guys think, you know, internally, we think we’re doing great, but externally there’s a gap there, and perception and let’s talk a little more fund-raising too, you could use this tio test some different fund-raising messages, couldn’t you? What resonates best with donors protection? Actually, you know, one of the key kind of components in determining your messaging and fund-raising whether you’d be even if you think kind of educational institutions, colleges, secondary school, things like that. Um, do you kind of lead in your messaging with what makes you distinctive and unique, or do plead with the messaging that will have a broader appeal to a wider audience in the example sometimes uses, imagine that you’re either an all women’s college or a college with a long a particular religious tradition. And are you trying to kind of narrowly focus on people who value those things above all else, or you trying to kind of go out to a broader population and get a bigger, more diverse set of people in your in your school with which those lead messages might not be the most buy-in including and appalled, but how can a survey be used specifically in that example, then? Well, you can do is you can put out a variety. Of different messages and test the desire ability so say we describe a certain organization in certain with certain keywords and messages. He’s, how desirable would be that organization terms of you supporting in donating money for that organization? Then you have on the group of messages which both of which may be true about this organization again if it’s done anonymously and people don’t know the organization’s even more helpful than that. So i’m thinking, okay, so if you don’t know, the organization has done kind of blind like that, you know, to what degree and that’s kind of more talk more general population study, uh, how desirable these other set of descriptors? And then you get an idea about for my example for you, you’ll find out, is that the quality of faculty and staff and teachers and ability to develop your own individual kind of curriculum and and, you know, looking at the social and personal development that person will be the things that test out best and things about a particular religious affiliation although may not test our poorly aren’t going to be the core values of the wide group of people you can use those secondary messages to say because we have this tradition, we are unique position, so so then you can even use surveying toe helpyou sequence is your messages exactly, and so that’s what we’ve done, that exact thing with the you know, imagine the front page of your website or the front page of your of of of your kind of guide book, or whatever written materials you produce being those upfront primary messes, and then you think about what the secondary and we’re the tertiary ones because you don’t want to run from your uniqueness, either. I think it’s important to feel like you have unique ways to contribute, but you need to tie them into the core values of the population just serving, or the people that made support you in order to truly make a connection with a wide audience if you want to get to a very narrow base, well, that’s a different story, but for the most part, people are trying to exit chadband their scope and expand their flexibility in terms of either who they serve or who supports them just going back. Teo mission focus. One of the questions you asked in the survey was, how confident are you that your donors or other stakeholders are clear about your mission on dh? Everybody said either completely confident or moderately confident, but teo related to the point that you made earlier. How does brooke break out the first and second, only about a third were completely confident in two thirds were just moderately confident that people who know the organization are clear about what the organization does, right, and that’s and that’s, you know, going a key difference. We’ve done the research study for, you know, a local organization in new england that was doing prodding a variety of different services to local community, including, um, shelter and providing food services, heating and utility helped and things like that and, you know, they were kind of known for two key things, and they had a suite of fourteen of fifteen services that they were really proud of and and felt like that gave them a unique kind of very wide based impact on the community, but when you surveyed their donors, they were known for a couple key things and, you know, i think they want to feel like they had a much broader on. Understanding among the people that are supporting them and their stakeholders of what they really do. All right, paul guerin is a partner at professional survey group. You’ll find their sight at professional survey group dot com and we’re talking about survey savvy let’s talk a little about some of the nuts and bolts. What? What are the variables that go into determining how to do your survey? Well, you know, i think this, you know, there’s three major kind of modalities actually collected information that’s phone based research, online research and paper surveys come in person interviewing as well, but paper serving as kind of died out a little bit, but phone and online being the biggest and online, certainly in the last decade, really taking course. So one of the kind of determines is, well, how can we get to our population? Do, for example, do we have pretty good e mail, pop penetration or accessibility so that we could do something online? Do we not? Then we’re going to have to do a phone based survey will i’m sure phone his phone is quite a bit more expensive exactly that, you know, we do a lot of online, because, again, we’re trying to build on south getting, you know, a broad base of information for people with costs issues, and one thing i do kind of tell in organizations is there’s there’s a difference between sophie was well, if we go out to online that’ll bias up sample because the only people that are online a lot, our people check their email. Well, that may be true, but what are we trying to achieve here? You know, we can actually do this study for, you know, a fifth of the cost if we go online and are you really going to get that different information? Are you trying to pinpoint whether a certain question is seventy percent of seventy five percent or you’re really just trying to understand that here, the things people think we’re doing well, what is the kind of top bucket of things here’s? The things we’re not doing so well on the actual specificity of the data is not particularly critical in terms of well, yeah, maybe it’s a little bit biased in one way or another, but you can actually pull off the research financially by using your online they upleaf except with were also in that example. Isn’t it relevant whether the email using the active email using population is going tio have some some bias toward the objectives of the survey? I mean, does it really matter that a lot of people check the email? Eso they’re going to be the ones who will have a greater propensity to answers that really matter to the purposes of your survey and your charitable work and that’s kind of one of the first things we talk about with you, let’s, let’s talk through the ratification. So if i find out, for example, a group says, you know, we have about fifty percent emails, i said, well, who do you have e mails? Well, it’s, mostly people, you know, younger, ok? So then age could be a legitimate buy-in factor. And so then i said, well, you know, given that, you know, if we look at your donor and then the actual kind of looked at the percentage of monetary support you’re getting, you find out that eighty percent of the forty and over well, we’re not going to want to exclude them from the study in that particular case, it’s worth saying okay, maybe we do a mixed methodology of phone and online. Or maybe we do phone it’s worth that. So there’s certainly a circumstances where i would say, you know, in this particular circumstance is biased and there i was i would say, you know what? For what you want to know, it’s. Fine to get read elearning online population that’s that’s. Okay, what’s the i gotta move on a little bit. Paul what’s the reliability across you mentioned phone, email and and paper surveys are they do they vary in terms of reliability. They vary in terms of kind of, i think what i found actually study on several years ago in a previous lifetime, but that phone research people tend to be, well, one thing briefer because you in-kind getting getting them stirring the phone researches it’s more active and you’re actually pursuing people to prove spade in the research. The downside that is that sometime you’re catching people that’s a very narrow window, which is kind of catch them on the phone and do this as on online or paper, they could do it at their own leisure. So sometimes you get very truncated responses, particularly if you asking kind of open ended items about that require commentary? We’ve also found that people tend to be nicer on the phone, so if they’re rating you on a scale of one to five it’s harder to say something bad, it’s harder to be a negative on the phone. Yeah, so not that it doesn’t happen, but you tend to see the scores being slightly higher on the phone, an online or paper where you don’t have that what’s called a demand characteristic, you know, social expectation of being nice, okay, so that that’s a big difference i’ve seen between phone versus the other two methodologies is this is this something? And we have just, like three minutes or so before before we have to end all this talk about serving, but is it is it something that charity khun i could do on their own? If we’re going to a short survey, can they can they do this and be successful? You know, you know i at they can, you know, i think there’s always caveats about making sure that you have, you know you’re asking questions in the right way you’re not biasing your questions in a way they’re going to get you information. That is what you want to hear and not necessary. What these actuality but there are tools out there like surveymonkey and bloomerang that are going online. Survey tools that are relatively easy to use if you just have a short survey it’s not that complicated you want to get a bunch of yes, no questions or some commentary you khun go use those those were relatively inexpensive. Certainly this free virgins of them. But even the kind of pay versions they are very, very inexpensive her month way you surveymonkey for the for the show’s a sze yu know exactly. You know that, you know? And for a lot of needs, they can solve them. You know, if you want to get a quick read on you can pop out a survey monkey auras bloomerang survey tia population. You could certainly do that yourself. They’re fairly easy tools, tio. Okay, but then if you’re going deeper like this is part of a strategic planning process or you’re not sure about the mission focus that you should be you should be engaged in for the next over the next five years. I mean that is more detailed, and you want to probably have someone professional helping, so you’re eliminating biasi? Yeah, i think if you’re going to get into that depth and really talking about shaping the way your organization is currently are going to operate in the future, then you need to really we’ll get somebody to kind of look atyou survey and like what we do with lot of they will say, hey, what what role do you want us to play here and what you know? And we could do that with what, what? But you have? And at minimum, let’s, look over your survey and say, well, you know, that question isn’t going to get what you want, it’s going toe it’s going toe secure the issue more than going to clarify all i have to stop because we have just a minute and i want i want to talk about getting feedback, is it? Is it wise to share survey results or to tell people that you’ll share the your your findings with them like everything it’s, context dependent, i bias towards sharing? Yes on i think thinking on how you’re going to do that because i think especially when you’re you’re serving people close to you, either your own employees or donors. They’re gonna have an extra day. Shinhwa what happened with this information? What did you do with it? What did you find? And what is he going to be? Action. So i’m very biased whenever is appropriate. Find a way to share the information. The main information, the survey, maybe you don’t need to share everything. Maybe something’s a kind of nuance that you wantto kind of work on internally. But i think some of the main things not only what you found, but what you’re going to do with it. I think that is a great power. It makes people feel like, well, there’s a reason i did this research and i contributed because now the organization i care about is utilizing an unproductive went. Paul garin is a partner in professional survey group. You’ll find them at professional survey group dot com. Paul, thank you so much for being a guest. No problem, tony. Have a nice day. Has been a pleasure. Thank you. Take your right. Now we take a break when we returned. Tony’s take two on philanthropy jargon. Stay with me? You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Geever are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed on montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt. Y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back before scott koegler joins me it’s time for tony’s take to my block this week is philanthropy jargon. If you google philanthropy jargon generator, you’ll see what got me thinking about jargon in the non-profit community it’s a random collection of now nhs verbs announce adjectives and verbs, but not in that order, though thinkit’s, verbs, adjectives and now nes andi it’s a little disconcerting. I think that somebody, somebody thought there’s so much jargon in philanthropy that they should create a generator to help you create, create your own if create something, if you if you’re at a road, block your mental block and you just can’t think of the right phrase, put in a random jargon phrase and and you don’t have to define it because people don’t define jargon so that’s little disconcerting. Um, got a lot of comments on this on this post over a dozen some people use it. Teo, i think some people use jargon to sound smart, which is unfortunate, but there was one comment or someone uses jargon to screen for expertise because hill, he’ll ask people what they’re lie. Bunt and sideburns rates are and leibrandt is someone who donated last year, but not this year and a side bunt is someone who didn’t donate it in some year, but not this year, keeping myself out of jargon jail, of course, so he uses it to sort of screen that’s interesting, but generally i think you want to communicate so that people understand what you’re talking about. The jargon generator, i think, is fun, but you wouldn’t want to use it as your dictionary as your when you’re writing to donors or ah, potential funders. So post is called jargon. The post is called philanthropy jargon it’s on my block also on my block is a connection is a link to our linked in page we’re now on linked in. You can communicate with us there. Tell us what you like about the show don’t like about the show, maybe some show ideas or some guest ideas, please share that with us on our linked in page, and you’ll find all of that on my block at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, may fourth, twenty twelve, the eighteenth show of the year, and i hear the phone buzzing. There is scott koegler scotty. How you doing? I am here, tony, how you i know you are doing well, scott koegler, of course, is our long standing tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news. We’re talking this week about content marketing. Scott, what is content? Marketing? Uh, content marketing. You know, i actually don’t like that particular title gave it to me. Okay. I know. I gave you the guy stabs me in the back in the first sentence. What can i say? All right, well, i’m calling you out. It was your type. He changes. Mind you’re entitled change minds. Go ahead. What do you what is this thing that we don’t have a name for? Well, we have we actually have many names for it. I prefer using something like authority marketing because the point of this kind of thing is that you write stuff and you you send out articles that our authoritative in your particular space authority marketing says has such gravitas to it. It does. It does. Actually. Sounds like it should be jargon. No, but the point is that what you want to do is you want to give people something to read that that’s not anything new that’s, you know, newspapers and everything else that’s been published forever. I want to do that, right? So we’re encouraging people to block is that? Is that where we’re headed? That’s part of it? Yeah, that’s, uh, we’re encouraging people to put out information that the people that they want to talk to are interested in knowing about that’s, that’s it, or whether it’s blogging, uh, whether it’s, uh, you know, paidcontent, uh, whether it’s, maybe even aggregated content, which we can talk about also, which is actually pulling information from other locations, and then writing about it. Okay, thank you for defining that keeps self out of jargon, general. So we’re very jargon sensitive this week. You can tel i i hear that. All right, i get the get the keys. I’m i’m on the trigger. I’ve got a hair trigger. So, content marketing authority marketing. Um, let me just talk a little bit about what i think content marketing is okay. It’s actually been a bad name for me because it’s, uh, it’s really it’s being used by what’s called content farms, which are sites that, like examiner dot com maybe to a smaller degree, but they they pay very little to their their authors. And the and the point of little writing is to get keyword rich maybe keyword overblown articles, because then then they sell advertising space, right? They shall advertising space against those. And until recently, google, you know, could be fooled into paying a lot of attention to a site that had a whole lot of appropriate word. All right, but not great content and cheating the writers. And that sounds terrible. Alright, that’s not a terrible, especially since i’m late i’m against. All right, um, good. So the other side of content marketing, which i call authority marketing, is creating articles. However you do it, whether it’s yourself, blogging or whether you actually pay somebody to write for you what co-branding information and putting it out there for people that you know, something, they’re interested. In actually reading, not just the google will find it and bring it up in search results because it’s much better people actually go to your site because they want to go to your sight because he has a reputation on dh that is not stuff that’s necessarily touting your good work. Oh, i mean, it could be stuff that’s valuable in because it’s related to what you do write an interesting that way? Yeah, think of it as a cz yourself, if you’re mean, you know, we know what you do, and we know well, i know some of the things you do, and so what are the things that people would write about and publish that would bring tony martignetti to a website, you know, on it may it may be about non-profit but it may also be about creating, uh, creating audio’s shows that draw audiences and maybe that’s related to non-profit or not. So you really need to know your audience that’s really big key, okay? And i want to say that generally i’m an example of what not to do so i appreciate you using man’s example of what should be done or who could. Be done could be let’s, not goes for us should, but generally people would be wiser to take the course opposite mine and self deprecation is one of those things that comedians really like to get into. I do that’s true, but we know that most charities don’t blogged, right, isn’t you have an article sixty nine percent don’t block and yes and that’s true. And you know what? I think what happened is that over time and i’m talking about the last now ten, twelve years blogging got to be, you know, everybody blogged, um and so, you know, it was your block and your mom read it and that kind of stuff, and it turned out to be pretty useless for most people because they may have written something, but nobody cared. Yeah, and so i think that the blogging that name blogging got a bad lap for a while. And so whether let’s just talk about content creation rather than block. Yeah, because there are other ways to do it to youtube and other ways that you mentioned before, lots of ways and content, as you just kind of alluded to is not necessarily their word it could be what you’re doing right now. The audio shows it could be video, it could be animation, even it could be a whole bunch of things, but the point is to get something that’s that is interesting to to the people you want to talk to so that they then say, g i and, you know, wonder what tony’s got going on today. I think i’ll go over and check in sight, right? Right? And then they’re rewarded at least at least fifty percent of the time that they find something that they like. You don’t have to hit one hundred percent not going to hit on percent, all right, all right, okay. And a way of just tow bring the show. That sort of full circle may be a way of finding out what your stakeholders may be interested in is to survey them and also to find out where they are, whether they’re whether they’re active in social media or more active. Just an email. Yeah, exactly, right, exactly. Because the way you’re going to deliver it goes to your point of knowing your audience, right? And just because you have an audience that you talked to primarily by let’s say email doesn’t mean that you can or should ignore the social media. I’ve got a couple of websites that i managed and i do content creation for them, you know? So so i’m kind of in the business and every time that we publish an article, we also sent out a tweet and a facebook update and they linked in update and those go automatically so anybody who’s looking at us from any of those locations in addition to the weekly email that we send out, has the opportunity to see what we’ve done and you know their choice. They come read more about it or not, but at least they’re getting notified, right? And the interconnectedness between all these social media properties, the one you need, the ones you’re named and you might put flicker in there also can be very much automated, right? Right with a with one exception of google plus which is not yet still released their their a p i that allows automated system’s supposed to for them? Yes, jack, you are shows social media manager regina walton doesn’t outstanding job of knowing how to do all those interconnected ah messages. But it’s it’s really not very hard now and then, but that’s the key is sometimes you can’t automate everything. Sometimes you just have to have, you know, somebody put in the time in order to do what’s, right? Absolutely. I just i don’t want to discourage people thinking you have to have a social media manager in order to make these interconnections it’s valuable because i’m producing so much, but you can’t do it on your own, too, right? Absolutely. Let’s. Talk a little about aggregated content you mentioned. What? What? What does that mean? It sounds like way. Don’t have tio write everything on our own. Yeah, they were produced everything or whatever aggregating content and stealing stuff. Okay on dh aggregated, aggregated content. Basically what? Here’s the here’s. What happens? You get a google news feed on our ss feed, you monitor somebody’s block that you know, has good stuff that you like and let’s say that tony wrote a block that i really, really like. It makes a lot of sense for us. My my leadership would probably like to read that. So i got a choice. I could just copy and paste it into my sight, which tony probably wouldn’t appreciate, right? That’s very bad. And not only that google. Well, actually, uh, take us down for that now it won’t take us down, but they’ll they’ll decrease our popularity because they say, hey, this is already than publish whyyou republica interested? Okay, they know they don’t really care about the fact that you plagiarized um, but they do care about the fact that it’s not original. Okay, so what i would do with that is i would write, you know, maybe a couple street who’s that tony martignetti wrote this really interesting post about jargon this week on his block. If you want to read it, click here. So what that does is it gives me something to comment on, and it lets my readers say, cheese. Not only does scott put out this stuff that’s interesting to me, but he’s also bringing me things that i may not have known about from other sources. So this is really a good way snusz to be to find out things that i want to know and what it does for tony, of course, is it brings another reader to tony site it’s really a good wayto work, aggregated content understand very, very organic way of bringing people to your site on give it back by by giving them value. Right? Excellent. Scott taylor, of course. The editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find at n p tech news. Dot com in which at which point we actually do all of those things that i just described. Okay, you conceive an example of it there. Thank you. For ah, what had been a segment called content marketing but became authority marketing. Thank you very much, scottie. Thanks very much. My thanks. Also to paul garin for being a guest this week. Next week. Five bullets to a better oh, we, uh oh, my. Cutting him off a little. Scott, you still there? I’m still here. Okay, uh, i’m i’m wrapping up the show five minutes early, so you and i still have time to talk. I’m still grateful to paul garron, but it’s, i’m looking at the wrong segment, so we’re going to take a break and hope everybody stays with us and scott you especially, i’m here. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading. Learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Talking. Welcome back to the show, and as i’ve made the point earlier, we i definitely an intern on this show, so i have somebody to blame from steaks like the one i made right before our break. S o if you know someone who wants to be blamed constantly for my mistakes, please have them send me their resume, and that sounds like a really great appeal. I’m sure i’ll get a ton. Um okay, scotty let’s see, i’m here. Yeah, different the different platforms that we might use different properties that we might use for our authority marketing have different personalities, right? I mean, you might not necessarily do the same thing on twitter that you would on facebook on dh versus linked in certainly, although the social media platforms have a whole lot of commonality to them, but right, twitter is only going to take, you know, a sentence and maybe a picture where is facebook could take more than that lengthen could take more than that. Google plus could take significantly more on that. Actually, you can publish directly on google. Plus, i don’t particularly mentor recommend that, but it’s people have done it on the menu. That’s interesting. I’m sorry. I just ask, why? Why do you say that about google? Plus what? Why not putting fresh content directly on google? Plus, um, google plus is like a hyper blogged in that the content rules by very quickly and so it’s very difficult to them find something of interest down there if it’s kind of rolled off of your screen. So okay, so not like, uh, it’s like a regular blonde or an online publication where you’ve got a nice kind of a content management system, brings things to the front, keeps him there for some starita time and then actually could be found easily in the published right. And and i think the length of articles is a big differentiating factor. If you have anything longer than a few sentences, you really don’t want a post directly on social media. Okay, you want your own, you want your own space, you want your own space, and then you wanna leverage the social media that has the first paragraph, maybe or on a link back to your your own content site. Okay? And sort of wrapped up in everything we’re talking about. Is that the same? Content can be used in different ways. I mean, on dh lynette singleton, who is on twitter often retweeting the show on dh lynette, thank you for doing it today she is at s c g the number four non-profits on lincoln on twitter if you wanna follow her, um, makes the point that, you know, one one piece of content can be used across lots of different platforms in different forms. Absolutely. I’ve even multipurpose, um, that has gone, taken an audio podcast like yours and has transcribed it into text. Oh, interesting on and then what? And then they just post that really? Okay. That’s interesting. Yeah, i can either be edited, so that was more of on article or serious of articles or can be just posted as it as it goes. I think they successful way to do that would be split it up in the articles, post them as content and maybe even link back to the recording of the show. So there’s, somebody prefers to here, they can still hear it, and i could see a value. And that would be you’d get some search engine value from the transcript because search engines can’t. Search audio. But all those words that are in the transcript would be searched if that’s exactly right. And there there are many ofthe offshore overseas services that will transcribe at an unbelievable rate. So, you know, i may not be perfect, but it’s it’s enough to get to get online and get it, maybe useful enough for someone to say. Yeah, i see what he’s saying, but i prefer to hear it so they click onto the the audio stream. Got it right. Okay, but again the point, multi multi purpose ing your your content coming and going back to the earlier guest ball. Gearan a survey could be something that is used as authority marketing. Absolutely. Because what you doing in that place is getting your readership to become the authority. And people like, you know, they have there. They’re their word and their opinion. I would caution we do surveys for some of my properties as well. And there is there’s a survey burnout where you just continue asking people for their opinion and well, you know, at the first couple of times they really like it. Especially if you give them feedback and write an article. About what? What they said. But if it’s too long or more continuous or too frequent, you’ll notice, uh, extreme drop off your respondents. Yes. Okay. Okay. We’re going to leave it there for for for real this time. Scott koegler as you heard multiple properties he’s, a land baron on the web and again the editor of non-profit technology news, which is that n p tech news. Dot com that’s one of his property. Scott. Thank you very much. Thanks, tony. Talk to you later. It’s been a pleasure. Let’s. Try again next week. Five bullets to a better budget. Paul connick stein. Principle of mission first finance knows how to create a budget that is aligned with your work and is a useful planning tool and he’s going to share what he knows that’s, that’s important doesn’t really matter much what he knows he’s gotta share it and he’s going to do that next week. You can check us out on facebook. You can check us out on linkedin. We’re on youtube also the youtube channel name israel. Tony martignetti because some young guy from boston stole the the tony martignetti so i’m real tony martignetti and you’ll find a lot of interviews on that youtube channel. Khun, listen, live our archive for the archive, you goto itunes, which is non-profit radio dot net. You can listen there, and you can subscribe so that you can listen any time on the device of your choice. On twitter. You can follow me, i’m at tony martignetti and the show’s hashtag is non-profit radio. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules on our first remote will be starting in june next month. I hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday one to two p, m eastern, at talking alternative broadcasting, which is always at talking alternative dot com. Co-branding think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, get him. Duitz good how’s your game. Want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop. Second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level. Bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it aspire, athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. 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