Tag Archives: management

IRS Filing Prompts Charity Registration Compliance

Last week I used Mary J. Blige’s foundation as an example of a noncompliant charity and opened an explanation of why it’s important to register your charity in each state where it solicits donations.

Here’s a motivation I didn’t mention last week: IRS Form 990.

If you’re required to file Form 990 annually, rather than one of the shorter annual forms like 990-EZ or 990-N (the postcard), then you’re answering questions about whether your charity is complying with state registration laws.

The alternate forms for smaller charities (based on gross receipts and/or total assets) don’t inquire about that.

For 990 filers, take a look at Part VI, question 17. (Use the link above to view the form.) It asks you to, “List the states with which a copy of this Form 990 is required to be filed.” Submitting the form is a basic request in every state registration regimen.

If you’re required to register in a state, you are required to submit the 990. (I speculated last week that not having its 990 ready may be why Ms. Blige’s charity hadn’t kept up with its New York registration.)

Charities required to file Schedule G of the 990 (who’s required?) will have their interest piqued by Part I, question 3: “List all states in which the organization is registered or licensed to solicit contributions or has been notified it is exempt from registration or licensing.”

That’s straightforward reporting of your compliance with state laws.

To blatantly nitpick, there is another possibility beyond registration and notification of exemption. Many states allow you to decide for yourself that you’re exempt. You won’t get notified by those states.

This is all quite interesting. A federal agency’s form asking about your compliance with state laws. Might that information be shared with states? I don’t see evidence that it is now, but I have heard rumblings about greater cooperation between IRS and state charities bureaus.

To round out your 990 thrills, the form is signed under penalty of perjury by an officer. It best be filled out honestly.

Nonprofit Radio, May 4, 2012: Survey Savvy & Content Marketing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Paul Gearan
Paul Gearan: Survey Savvy

Paul Gearan, a partner at Professional Survey Group, explains how surveys are cultivation tools for your donors. You can increase awareness of your work; gauge willingness to support; heighten sensitivity to challenges; and get feedback on how you’re doing. But you have to do it right if you want reliable results.

Please take a moment to take the survey for this week’s discussion with Paul. You’ll find it here at the end of the guest and segment descriptions. Thank you! If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it.

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Content Marketing

Scott Koegler is our long-standing technology contributor and the editor of Nonprofit Technology News. This month he encourages you to give away high quality, interesting content through your blog. You are blogging, right?

 
 
 
 


Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey, the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CXHJPHR


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No. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for may fourth twenty twelve big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host i do hope you were with me last week, i couldn’t stand knowing that you had missed, get monthly givers and strategic organizations, raised more money, get monthly givers was bob wesolowski the president of caring habits, and he helped us get habitual monthly donors through electronic funds transfer. A lot of people know that as ft that was pre recorded, a tte philanthropy day two thousand eleven and strategic organizations raised more money. My guest was starita ansari, president and chief change officer at msb philanthropy advisors. She encouraged you to organize thoughtfully around your mission, looking strategically at your inputs, outputs and outcomes to boost your fund-raising revenue that was also pre recorded at philanthropy day last year. This week, survey savvy paul gear in a partner at professional survey group explains how surveys are cultivation tools for your donors. You can increase awareness of your work gage, willingness to support it, heightened sensitivity to challenges and get feedback on how you’re doing. But you have to do it right if you want. Reliable results and content marketing. Scott koegler is our long standing technology contributor, he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, and this month he encourages you to give away high quality, interesting content through your blogged you are blogging, aren’t you between the guests, tony’s take to philanthropy jargon, do you speak and write in terms that people can understand? You can use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter were also on linked in i’ll say more about that later on, tony’s metoo right now we take a break, and when we return, i’ll be joined by paul gearan for survey savvy. Stay with me. Yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. No. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s a lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna durney welcome back with me now is paul gearan. He is a partner in the professional survey group. He has extensive experience in survey design, online surveying market research and social science research. His career has been focused around research and data analysis for the past twenty years, and i’m very pleased that his practice brings him to the show. Paul garin, welcome. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s. A pleasure to have you how useful are surveys for small and midsize charities? You know, i think for a lot of organizations, they really provide some core informations that oftentimes people within organizations kind of our internal debates about and there’s not always great clarity with what some of assumptions are being made. And i think research with particularly donors and stakeholders, but also uses of charitable charitable services give you a lot more specific. Clary on whether your fulfilling the elements cia mission that are most critical to you and most critical tier donors. So i think in that regard, you know, this becomes critical information not only to kind of get a sense of an evaluation on how you doing now, but also if you’re involved in long. Range planning and trying to look toward the future of how you should evolve on dh. Part of what you said is you could resolve some internal differences about the way things might be going or the way things should go. So maybe some of those internal arguments can be resolved this way. Yeah. I mean, i think that’s one thing that, you know, it’s funny, because when you work with people who say what we know all this we know we know we know exactly, you know how people feel about us or you know how we’re doing, and we know what our strengths and weaknesses are, and then you start to talk to different people in the organization. You find out very different assumptions with many people. So part of part of the problem might be unwillingness toe do the survey because then you have reliable information and your opinion might end up being the wrong one. Yeah, and that becomes a challenge for us is outside consultants and how to be able to do the research that they get away that’s not biasing any particular perspective and be able to present it in a way that people understand and take, you know, internalize that taking an understanding and continue to to think about things because we were we don’t have an agenda, we want to get to what what reality is and i think that’s one benefit of sometimes of having another group that’s outside your own organization do the research because you don’t have a kind of bias voice, right? That objectivity just you have to be willing to recognize that your side of the argument might be the loser exactly and, you know, like with everything we try, destruction is not, you know, presented that there’s winners and losers, but there are certainly times when you come down on a certain side and things are unambiguous when you, when you survey people and, you know, eighty percent say they don’t they don’t think you’re doing a very good job of this particular element of of your portfolio of services that you know, that that’s meaningful, that that’s pretty undebatable and one of the survey questions that we ask and i want to thank you for designing our first professional survey. Thank you very much. It’s usually it’s usually the hack job that i do, thank you thank you for for lending your services to the to the survey before the show, and one of the questions we asked is how satisfied are your key donors and stakeholders with the performance of your organization? Currently and three, two thirds said either very satisfied or somewhat satisfied. But then roughly one third, about twenty nine percent said i’m not sure, so they’re not there there’s some uncertainty there about what their donors and stakeholders think about how they’re doing. Yeah, and i think that’s, you know, that’s where we you know, where we come down in terms of how important this is, if, you know, a third of people really don’t have a good sense of that, you know, how do you move forward and know that the measures you’re taking the programs you’re supporting, the way you’re administering it all the way you’re going out and trying to get external support for our right and are going to be solid going forward? It’s certainly difficult to know if you don’t have some kind of reed and even the kind of very, very southside, somewhat satisfied, you know, that kind of comparison, although i think when you just research you find most people are somewhat or very satisfied, but, you know, is the bigger bucket very satisfied? Because those are the passionate people, supporters, those of the people that, you know, i really going to stand by you in the long term, somewhat somewhat satisfied, you know, they’re going to be the kind of people that i got more loosely affiliated affiliate in terms of long term, long term support. So you know, those those ki kind of things we bring to the table and be able to kind of say, you know, hey, yeah, eighty percent of your people your donors or somewhat are very satisfied, but, you know, only thirty percent of very satisfied and that you want to see flip, you want more people that kind of passionate what’s called top box, okay, right, i got you so yeah, so so don’t be so satisfied with somewhat satisfied, exactly what’s outside it is you’re doing fine, but in a world where, you know, people have a variety of different ways where they could distribute this support and all, i’m sure deserving causes, you know, being in a somewhat satisfied bucket doesn’t really distinguish you. Got, you’re ok, and in our survey was about forty three percent were eyes felt that their donorsearch stakeholders were very satisfied, there’s about twenty nine percent somewhat satisfied we have just about a minute before break, you can also be surveying people outside your donors and stakeholders, right? Amore amore, broader audience, maybe just your community? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, i think, whether it be local community, if you can, a local organization or we’ve done work for international organizations that we’ve done national studies forward to get kind of general population awareness. So for example, if you’re, you know, organizations say your aa group focused to its animal protection there’s a lot of those kind of groups out there, you know, where do you fall in terms of visibility compared to those other organizations? And what could you do to perhaps increase that? Where do you need to? Kind of kind of do your messaging? You know, what were the vehicles for communication and also one of the important messages that you need to get out there you can connect with? Ah, wider population. That may be more supportive of your group when there’s other competition. Come on. I hate to say competition, but not-for-profits. But obviously there’s people in the same space, all doing great work and believing in the organizations you know, that want support. We’ll take a break. Paul. Paul here is going to stay with us. We’re going to continue talking about surveys and survey savviness, so stay with us. Co-branding think dick tooting getting depicting you’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. Nothing. Good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that come mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rotter with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. The ladies said it for me, so i don’t have to say big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Paul, we were just talking about maybe surveying beyond your immediate donors and other stakeholders. But when you, when you do survey dahna people who are committed to you, it sounds like i mean, there could be some value around helping you to focus your mission in your core. Yeah. No, i think when you, when you talk about people that are closest to you, there’d be a core donors or donors in general or other stakeholders like, you know, people in the legislator that might legislative that might be supportive of you. You know, other advocates in the area that the different kinds of stakeholders beyond just a donor base, too. Yeah, but i think that’s where, you know, you really get a sense of people that know you well that care about the cause that are a little bit more discerning. And even the research you might be able to split those people out to where your core people, who were the people that know you best and who are kind of people providing regular donations cubine may not be tracking his services in consul here’s the core people were, and i’ve done that kind of research before. We’ve is it? Okay, here’s, the stakeholders that really know you well, what do they think of you? What does the kind of broader base of support think ofyou and kind of look at that? But i think that’s where you really get are we on our mission? Are we feeling the promises that we were making to the community that we’re serving into the people that supported think that if if they don’t, then you’re in real trouble? So if you find out that you they think you’re kind of falling short on a couple critical pieces of your mission, well, it’s, time to reflect and see is that a statement of messaging in information? Or is it truly a deficit in the services you’re providing? This could also be valuable in doing strategic planning. I mean that’s basically everything you’re saying could could contribute to a strategic planning process. Absolutely, because i mean that that’s the element we’re dahna only checking on how you’ve been doing, but what are the existing are you keeping up taste with the existing needs of the community, the population just serving so you may have done a very good job continue to do the job in your basic mission, but are there new challenges in us space that air coming up that maybe you’re not keeping apace with fast enough that, you know, for five years down the road, you that’s going to be the critical area that they would like you to see serving? So, you know, it’s a matter of how we doing now, but, you know, looking forward, one of the critical issues moving forward that maybe, you know, obviously you just think about the last he isn’t changing economic landscape suddenly the needs of people and in the nation at large, in the world at large have changed quite a bit, so you can imagine tryingto strategic plan five years ago when everybody the economy was hail and going full steam and and how that changed so dramatically and how you might need to change your kind of perspective and outlook long term as an organization, if you’re gonna serve people that now might be having additional challenges that didn’t. Exist a few years ago. What about just surveying aboard? I mean, could you use this as a way to anonymously gather opinions of just your board members? Absolutely, you know, always tricky because, ah, few key comments on they reveal their name, but that’s kind of one thing that again sometimes using outside organizations helpful because we can kind of get that and not only kind of, you know, clean the data such that, you know, we present things back to people so we can be sure indemnity, but also kind of educate, like, how do you use this information? But absolutely, we’ve done that kind ofthing, not boards employee research is are the people in your organization believing that you are on on on the beam with what your mission is with what your services? And sometimes we done both rose, since we’ll survey kind of outside populations donor, and then inside populations are those consistent, you know, people seeing problems that the outside world is seeing that are a sign of future issues are going to struggle with or vice versa, you know, you guys think, you know, internally, we think we’re doing great, but externally there’s a gap there, and perception and let’s talk a little more fund-raising too, you could use this tio test some different fund-raising messages, couldn’t you? What resonates best with donors protection? Actually, you know, one of the key kind of components in determining your messaging and fund-raising whether you’d be even if you think kind of educational institutions, colleges, secondary school, things like that. Um, do you kind of lead in your messaging with what makes you distinctive and unique, or do plead with the messaging that will have a broader appeal to a wider audience in the example sometimes uses, imagine that you’re either an all women’s college or a college with a long a particular religious tradition. And are you trying to kind of narrowly focus on people who value those things above all else, or you trying to kind of go out to a broader population and get a bigger, more diverse set of people in your in your school with which those lead messages might not be the most buy-in including and appalled, but how can a survey be used specifically in that example, then? Well, you can do is you can put out a variety. Of different messages and test the desire ability so say we describe a certain organization in certain with certain keywords and messages. He’s, how desirable would be that organization terms of you supporting in donating money for that organization? Then you have on the group of messages which both of which may be true about this organization again if it’s done anonymously and people don’t know the organization’s even more helpful than that. So i’m thinking, okay, so if you don’t know, the organization has done kind of blind like that, you know, to what degree and that’s kind of more talk more general population study, uh, how desirable these other set of descriptors? And then you get an idea about for my example for you, you’ll find out, is that the quality of faculty and staff and teachers and ability to develop your own individual kind of curriculum and and, you know, looking at the social and personal development that person will be the things that test out best and things about a particular religious affiliation although may not test our poorly aren’t going to be the core values of the wide group of people you can use those secondary messages to say because we have this tradition, we are unique position, so so then you can even use surveying toe helpyou sequence is your messages exactly, and so that’s what we’ve done, that exact thing with the you know, imagine the front page of your website or the front page of your of of of your kind of guide book, or whatever written materials you produce being those upfront primary messes, and then you think about what the secondary and we’re the tertiary ones because you don’t want to run from your uniqueness, either. I think it’s important to feel like you have unique ways to contribute, but you need to tie them into the core values of the population just serving, or the people that made support you in order to truly make a connection with a wide audience if you want to get to a very narrow base, well, that’s a different story, but for the most part, people are trying to exit chadband their scope and expand their flexibility in terms of either who they serve or who supports them just going back. Teo mission focus. One of the questions you asked in the survey was, how confident are you that your donors or other stakeholders are clear about your mission on dh? Everybody said either completely confident or moderately confident, but teo related to the point that you made earlier. How does brooke break out the first and second, only about a third were completely confident in two thirds were just moderately confident that people who know the organization are clear about what the organization does, right, and that’s and that’s, you know, going a key difference. We’ve done the research study for, you know, a local organization in new england that was doing prodding a variety of different services to local community, including, um, shelter and providing food services, heating and utility helped and things like that and, you know, they were kind of known for two key things, and they had a suite of fourteen of fifteen services that they were really proud of and and felt like that gave them a unique kind of very wide based impact on the community, but when you surveyed their donors, they were known for a couple key things and, you know, i think they want to feel like they had a much broader on. Understanding among the people that are supporting them and their stakeholders of what they really do. All right, paul guerin is a partner at professional survey group. You’ll find their sight at professional survey group dot com and we’re talking about survey savvy let’s talk a little about some of the nuts and bolts. What? What are the variables that go into determining how to do your survey? Well, you know, i think this, you know, there’s three major kind of modalities actually collected information that’s phone based research, online research and paper surveys come in person interviewing as well, but paper serving as kind of died out a little bit, but phone and online being the biggest and online, certainly in the last decade, really taking course. So one of the kind of determines is, well, how can we get to our population? Do, for example, do we have pretty good e mail, pop penetration or accessibility so that we could do something online? Do we not? Then we’re going to have to do a phone based survey will i’m sure phone his phone is quite a bit more expensive exactly that, you know, we do a lot of online, because, again, we’re trying to build on south getting, you know, a broad base of information for people with costs issues, and one thing i do kind of tell in organizations is there’s there’s a difference between sophie was well, if we go out to online that’ll bias up sample because the only people that are online a lot, our people check their email. Well, that may be true, but what are we trying to achieve here? You know, we can actually do this study for, you know, a fifth of the cost if we go online and are you really going to get that different information? Are you trying to pinpoint whether a certain question is seventy percent of seventy five percent or you’re really just trying to understand that here, the things people think we’re doing well, what is the kind of top bucket of things here’s? The things we’re not doing so well on the actual specificity of the data is not particularly critical in terms of well, yeah, maybe it’s a little bit biased in one way or another, but you can actually pull off the research financially by using your online they upleaf except with were also in that example. Isn’t it relevant whether the email using the active email using population is going tio have some some bias toward the objectives of the survey? I mean, does it really matter that a lot of people check the email? Eso they’re going to be the ones who will have a greater propensity to answers that really matter to the purposes of your survey and your charitable work and that’s kind of one of the first things we talk about with you, let’s, let’s talk through the ratification. So if i find out, for example, a group says, you know, we have about fifty percent emails, i said, well, who do you have e mails? Well, it’s, mostly people, you know, younger, ok? So then age could be a legitimate buy-in factor. And so then i said, well, you know, given that, you know, if we look at your donor and then the actual kind of looked at the percentage of monetary support you’re getting, you find out that eighty percent of the forty and over well, we’re not going to want to exclude them from the study in that particular case, it’s worth saying okay, maybe we do a mixed methodology of phone and online. Or maybe we do phone it’s worth that. So there’s certainly a circumstances where i would say, you know, in this particular circumstance is biased and there i was i would say, you know what? For what you want to know, it’s. Fine to get read elearning online population that’s that’s. Okay, what’s the i gotta move on a little bit. Paul what’s the reliability across you mentioned phone, email and and paper surveys are they do they vary in terms of reliability. They vary in terms of kind of, i think what i found actually study on several years ago in a previous lifetime, but that phone research people tend to be, well, one thing briefer because you in-kind getting getting them stirring the phone researches it’s more active and you’re actually pursuing people to prove spade in the research. The downside that is that sometime you’re catching people that’s a very narrow window, which is kind of catch them on the phone and do this as on online or paper, they could do it at their own leisure. So sometimes you get very truncated responses, particularly if you asking kind of open ended items about that require commentary? We’ve also found that people tend to be nicer on the phone, so if they’re rating you on a scale of one to five it’s harder to say something bad, it’s harder to be a negative on the phone. Yeah, so not that it doesn’t happen, but you tend to see the scores being slightly higher on the phone, an online or paper where you don’t have that what’s called a demand characteristic, you know, social expectation of being nice, okay, so that that’s a big difference i’ve seen between phone versus the other two methodologies is this is this something? And we have just, like three minutes or so before before we have to end all this talk about serving, but is it is it something that charity khun i could do on their own? If we’re going to a short survey, can they can they do this and be successful? You know, you know i at they can, you know, i think there’s always caveats about making sure that you have, you know you’re asking questions in the right way you’re not biasing your questions in a way they’re going to get you information. That is what you want to hear and not necessary. What these actuality but there are tools out there like surveymonkey and bloomerang that are going online. Survey tools that are relatively easy to use if you just have a short survey it’s not that complicated you want to get a bunch of yes, no questions or some commentary you khun go use those those were relatively inexpensive. Certainly this free virgins of them. But even the kind of pay versions they are very, very inexpensive her month way you surveymonkey for the for the show’s a sze yu know exactly. You know that, you know? And for a lot of needs, they can solve them. You know, if you want to get a quick read on you can pop out a survey monkey auras bloomerang survey tia population. You could certainly do that yourself. They’re fairly easy tools, tio. Okay, but then if you’re going deeper like this is part of a strategic planning process or you’re not sure about the mission focus that you should be you should be engaged in for the next over the next five years. I mean that is more detailed, and you want to probably have someone professional helping, so you’re eliminating biasi? Yeah, i think if you’re going to get into that depth and really talking about shaping the way your organization is currently are going to operate in the future, then you need to really we’ll get somebody to kind of look atyou survey and like what we do with lot of they will say, hey, what what role do you want us to play here and what you know? And we could do that with what, what? But you have? And at minimum, let’s, look over your survey and say, well, you know, that question isn’t going to get what you want, it’s going toe it’s going toe secure the issue more than going to clarify all i have to stop because we have just a minute and i want i want to talk about getting feedback, is it? Is it wise to share survey results or to tell people that you’ll share the your your findings with them like everything it’s, context dependent, i bias towards sharing? Yes on i think thinking on how you’re going to do that because i think especially when you’re you’re serving people close to you, either your own employees or donors. They’re gonna have an extra day. Shinhwa what happened with this information? What did you do with it? What did you find? And what is he going to be? Action. So i’m very biased whenever is appropriate. Find a way to share the information. The main information, the survey, maybe you don’t need to share everything. Maybe something’s a kind of nuance that you wantto kind of work on internally. But i think some of the main things not only what you found, but what you’re going to do with it. I think that is a great power. It makes people feel like, well, there’s a reason i did this research and i contributed because now the organization i care about is utilizing an unproductive went. Paul garin is a partner in professional survey group. You’ll find them at professional survey group dot com. Paul, thank you so much for being a guest. No problem, tony. Have a nice day. Has been a pleasure. Thank you. Take your right. Now we take a break when we returned. Tony’s take two on philanthropy jargon. Stay with me? You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Geever are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed on montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt. Y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back before scott koegler joins me it’s time for tony’s take to my block this week is philanthropy jargon. If you google philanthropy jargon generator, you’ll see what got me thinking about jargon in the non-profit community it’s a random collection of now nhs verbs announce adjectives and verbs, but not in that order, though thinkit’s, verbs, adjectives and now nes andi it’s a little disconcerting. I think that somebody, somebody thought there’s so much jargon in philanthropy that they should create a generator to help you create, create your own if create something, if you if you’re at a road, block your mental block and you just can’t think of the right phrase, put in a random jargon phrase and and you don’t have to define it because people don’t define jargon so that’s little disconcerting. Um, got a lot of comments on this on this post over a dozen some people use it. Teo, i think some people use jargon to sound smart, which is unfortunate, but there was one comment or someone uses jargon to screen for expertise because hill, he’ll ask people what they’re lie. Bunt and sideburns rates are and leibrandt is someone who donated last year, but not this year and a side bunt is someone who didn’t donate it in some year, but not this year, keeping myself out of jargon jail, of course, so he uses it to sort of screen that’s interesting, but generally i think you want to communicate so that people understand what you’re talking about. The jargon generator, i think, is fun, but you wouldn’t want to use it as your dictionary as your when you’re writing to donors or ah, potential funders. So post is called jargon. The post is called philanthropy jargon it’s on my block also on my block is a connection is a link to our linked in page we’re now on linked in. You can communicate with us there. Tell us what you like about the show don’t like about the show, maybe some show ideas or some guest ideas, please share that with us on our linked in page, and you’ll find all of that on my block at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, may fourth, twenty twelve, the eighteenth show of the year, and i hear the phone buzzing. There is scott koegler scotty. How you doing? I am here, tony, how you i know you are doing well, scott koegler, of course, is our long standing tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news. We’re talking this week about content marketing. Scott, what is content? Marketing? Uh, content marketing. You know, i actually don’t like that particular title gave it to me. Okay. I know. I gave you the guy stabs me in the back in the first sentence. What can i say? All right, well, i’m calling you out. It was your type. He changes. Mind you’re entitled change minds. Go ahead. What do you what is this thing that we don’t have a name for? Well, we have we actually have many names for it. I prefer using something like authority marketing because the point of this kind of thing is that you write stuff and you you send out articles that our authoritative in your particular space authority marketing says has such gravitas to it. It does. It does. Actually. Sounds like it should be jargon. No, but the point is that what you want to do is you want to give people something to read that that’s not anything new that’s, you know, newspapers and everything else that’s been published forever. I want to do that, right? So we’re encouraging people to block is that? Is that where we’re headed? That’s part of it? Yeah, that’s, uh, we’re encouraging people to put out information that the people that they want to talk to are interested in knowing about that’s, that’s it, or whether it’s blogging, uh, whether it’s, uh, you know, paidcontent, uh, whether it’s, maybe even aggregated content, which we can talk about also, which is actually pulling information from other locations, and then writing about it. Okay, thank you for defining that keeps self out of jargon, general. So we’re very jargon sensitive this week. You can tel i i hear that. All right, i get the get the keys. I’m i’m on the trigger. I’ve got a hair trigger. So, content marketing authority marketing. Um, let me just talk a little bit about what i think content marketing is okay. It’s actually been a bad name for me because it’s, uh, it’s really it’s being used by what’s called content farms, which are sites that, like examiner dot com maybe to a smaller degree, but they they pay very little to their their authors. And the and the point of little writing is to get keyword rich maybe keyword overblown articles, because then then they sell advertising space, right? They shall advertising space against those. And until recently, google, you know, could be fooled into paying a lot of attention to a site that had a whole lot of appropriate word. All right, but not great content and cheating the writers. And that sounds terrible. Alright, that’s not a terrible, especially since i’m late i’m against. All right, um, good. So the other side of content marketing, which i call authority marketing, is creating articles. However you do it, whether it’s yourself, blogging or whether you actually pay somebody to write for you what co-branding information and putting it out there for people that you know, something, they’re interested. In actually reading, not just the google will find it and bring it up in search results because it’s much better people actually go to your site because they want to go to your sight because he has a reputation on dh that is not stuff that’s necessarily touting your good work. Oh, i mean, it could be stuff that’s valuable in because it’s related to what you do write an interesting that way? Yeah, think of it as a cz yourself, if you’re mean, you know, we know what you do, and we know well, i know some of the things you do, and so what are the things that people would write about and publish that would bring tony martignetti to a website, you know, on it may it may be about non-profit but it may also be about creating, uh, creating audio’s shows that draw audiences and maybe that’s related to non-profit or not. So you really need to know your audience that’s really big key, okay? And i want to say that generally i’m an example of what not to do so i appreciate you using man’s example of what should be done or who could. Be done could be let’s, not goes for us should, but generally people would be wiser to take the course opposite mine and self deprecation is one of those things that comedians really like to get into. I do that’s true, but we know that most charities don’t blogged, right, isn’t you have an article sixty nine percent don’t block and yes and that’s true. And you know what? I think what happened is that over time and i’m talking about the last now ten, twelve years blogging got to be, you know, everybody blogged, um and so, you know, it was your block and your mom read it and that kind of stuff, and it turned out to be pretty useless for most people because they may have written something, but nobody cared. Yeah, and so i think that the blogging that name blogging got a bad lap for a while. And so whether let’s just talk about content creation rather than block. Yeah, because there are other ways to do it to youtube and other ways that you mentioned before, lots of ways and content, as you just kind of alluded to is not necessarily their word it could be what you’re doing right now. The audio shows it could be video, it could be animation, even it could be a whole bunch of things, but the point is to get something that’s that is interesting to to the people you want to talk to so that they then say, g i and, you know, wonder what tony’s got going on today. I think i’ll go over and check in sight, right? Right? And then they’re rewarded at least at least fifty percent of the time that they find something that they like. You don’t have to hit one hundred percent not going to hit on percent, all right, all right, okay. And a way of just tow bring the show. That sort of full circle may be a way of finding out what your stakeholders may be interested in is to survey them and also to find out where they are, whether they’re whether they’re active in social media or more active. Just an email. Yeah, exactly, right, exactly. Because the way you’re going to deliver it goes to your point of knowing your audience, right? And just because you have an audience that you talked to primarily by let’s say email doesn’t mean that you can or should ignore the social media. I’ve got a couple of websites that i managed and i do content creation for them, you know? So so i’m kind of in the business and every time that we publish an article, we also sent out a tweet and a facebook update and they linked in update and those go automatically so anybody who’s looking at us from any of those locations in addition to the weekly email that we send out, has the opportunity to see what we’ve done and you know their choice. They come read more about it or not, but at least they’re getting notified, right? And the interconnectedness between all these social media properties, the one you need, the ones you’re named and you might put flicker in there also can be very much automated, right? Right with a with one exception of google plus which is not yet still released their their a p i that allows automated system’s supposed to for them? Yes, jack, you are shows social media manager regina walton doesn’t outstanding job of knowing how to do all those interconnected ah messages. But it’s it’s really not very hard now and then, but that’s the key is sometimes you can’t automate everything. Sometimes you just have to have, you know, somebody put in the time in order to do what’s, right? Absolutely. I just i don’t want to discourage people thinking you have to have a social media manager in order to make these interconnections it’s valuable because i’m producing so much, but you can’t do it on your own, too, right? Absolutely. Let’s. Talk a little about aggregated content you mentioned. What? What? What does that mean? It sounds like way. Don’t have tio write everything on our own. Yeah, they were produced everything or whatever aggregating content and stealing stuff. Okay on dh aggregated, aggregated content. Basically what? Here’s the here’s. What happens? You get a google news feed on our ss feed, you monitor somebody’s block that you know, has good stuff that you like and let’s say that tony wrote a block that i really, really like. It makes a lot of sense for us. My my leadership would probably like to read that. So i got a choice. I could just copy and paste it into my sight, which tony probably wouldn’t appreciate, right? That’s very bad. And not only that google. Well, actually, uh, take us down for that now it won’t take us down, but they’ll they’ll decrease our popularity because they say, hey, this is already than publish whyyou republica interested? Okay, they know they don’t really care about the fact that you plagiarized um, but they do care about the fact that it’s not original. Okay, so what i would do with that is i would write, you know, maybe a couple street who’s that tony martignetti wrote this really interesting post about jargon this week on his block. If you want to read it, click here. So what that does is it gives me something to comment on, and it lets my readers say, cheese. Not only does scott put out this stuff that’s interesting to me, but he’s also bringing me things that i may not have known about from other sources. So this is really a good way snusz to be to find out things that i want to know and what it does for tony, of course, is it brings another reader to tony site it’s really a good wayto work, aggregated content understand very, very organic way of bringing people to your site on give it back by by giving them value. Right? Excellent. Scott taylor, of course. The editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find at n p tech news. Dot com in which at which point we actually do all of those things that i just described. Okay, you conceive an example of it there. Thank you. For ah, what had been a segment called content marketing but became authority marketing. Thank you very much, scottie. Thanks very much. My thanks. Also to paul garin for being a guest this week. Next week. Five bullets to a better oh, we, uh oh, my. Cutting him off a little. Scott, you still there? I’m still here. Okay, uh, i’m i’m wrapping up the show five minutes early, so you and i still have time to talk. I’m still grateful to paul garron, but it’s, i’m looking at the wrong segment, so we’re going to take a break and hope everybody stays with us and scott you especially, i’m here. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading. Learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Talking. Welcome back to the show, and as i’ve made the point earlier, we i definitely an intern on this show, so i have somebody to blame from steaks like the one i made right before our break. S o if you know someone who wants to be blamed constantly for my mistakes, please have them send me their resume, and that sounds like a really great appeal. I’m sure i’ll get a ton. Um okay, scotty let’s see, i’m here. Yeah, different the different platforms that we might use different properties that we might use for our authority marketing have different personalities, right? I mean, you might not necessarily do the same thing on twitter that you would on facebook on dh versus linked in certainly, although the social media platforms have a whole lot of commonality to them, but right, twitter is only going to take, you know, a sentence and maybe a picture where is facebook could take more than that lengthen could take more than that. Google plus could take significantly more on that. Actually, you can publish directly on google. Plus, i don’t particularly mentor recommend that, but it’s people have done it on the menu. That’s interesting. I’m sorry. I just ask, why? Why do you say that about google? Plus what? Why not putting fresh content directly on google? Plus, um, google plus is like a hyper blogged in that the content rules by very quickly and so it’s very difficult to them find something of interest down there if it’s kind of rolled off of your screen. So okay, so not like, uh, it’s like a regular blonde or an online publication where you’ve got a nice kind of a content management system, brings things to the front, keeps him there for some starita time and then actually could be found easily in the published right. And and i think the length of articles is a big differentiating factor. If you have anything longer than a few sentences, you really don’t want a post directly on social media. Okay, you want your own, you want your own space, you want your own space, and then you wanna leverage the social media that has the first paragraph, maybe or on a link back to your your own content site. Okay? And sort of wrapped up in everything we’re talking about. Is that the same? Content can be used in different ways. I mean, on dh lynette singleton, who is on twitter often retweeting the show on dh lynette, thank you for doing it today she is at s c g the number four non-profits on lincoln on twitter if you wanna follow her, um, makes the point that, you know, one one piece of content can be used across lots of different platforms in different forms. Absolutely. I’ve even multipurpose, um, that has gone, taken an audio podcast like yours and has transcribed it into text. Oh, interesting on and then what? And then they just post that really? Okay. That’s interesting. Yeah, i can either be edited, so that was more of on article or serious of articles or can be just posted as it as it goes. I think they successful way to do that would be split it up in the articles, post them as content and maybe even link back to the recording of the show. So there’s, somebody prefers to here, they can still hear it, and i could see a value. And that would be you’d get some search engine value from the transcript because search engines can’t. Search audio. But all those words that are in the transcript would be searched if that’s exactly right. And there there are many ofthe offshore overseas services that will transcribe at an unbelievable rate. So, you know, i may not be perfect, but it’s it’s enough to get to get online and get it, maybe useful enough for someone to say. Yeah, i see what he’s saying, but i prefer to hear it so they click onto the the audio stream. Got it right. Okay, but again the point, multi multi purpose ing your your content coming and going back to the earlier guest ball. Gearan a survey could be something that is used as authority marketing. Absolutely. Because what you doing in that place is getting your readership to become the authority. And people like, you know, they have there. They’re their word and their opinion. I would caution we do surveys for some of my properties as well. And there is there’s a survey burnout where you just continue asking people for their opinion and well, you know, at the first couple of times they really like it. Especially if you give them feedback and write an article. About what? What they said. But if it’s too long or more continuous or too frequent, you’ll notice, uh, extreme drop off your respondents. Yes. Okay. Okay. We’re going to leave it there for for for real this time. Scott koegler as you heard multiple properties he’s, a land baron on the web and again the editor of non-profit technology news, which is that n p tech news. Dot com that’s one of his property. Scott. Thank you very much. Thanks, tony. Talk to you later. It’s been a pleasure. Let’s. Try again next week. Five bullets to a better budget. Paul connick stein. Principle of mission first finance knows how to create a budget that is aligned with your work and is a useful planning tool and he’s going to share what he knows that’s, that’s important doesn’t really matter much what he knows he’s gotta share it and he’s going to do that next week. You can check us out on facebook. You can check us out on linkedin. We’re on youtube also the youtube channel name israel. Tony martignetti because some young guy from boston stole the the tony martignetti so i’m real tony martignetti and you’ll find a lot of interviews on that youtube channel. Khun, listen, live our archive for the archive, you goto itunes, which is non-profit radio dot net. You can listen there, and you can subscribe so that you can listen any time on the device of your choice. On twitter. You can follow me, i’m at tony martignetti and the show’s hashtag is non-profit radio. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules on our first remote will be starting in june next month. I hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday one to two p, m eastern, at talking alternative broadcasting, which is always at talking alternative dot com. Co-branding think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, get him. Duitz good how’s your game. Want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop. Second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level. Bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it aspire, athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. 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Looking to meet mr and mrs wright but still haven’t found the one want to make your current relationship as filling as possible, then tuning on thursdays at one pm for love in the afternoon with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all with distinguished authors, industry coolers and experts on everything from wine to fashion. Join us as we discuss dating, relationships and more on talking alternative dot com. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow no more it’s time. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. 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Nonprofit Radio for October 14, 2011: Giving Beyond The Check: Non-Cash Giving & Proactive Prospect Research

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

Tony’s Guests:

Michael King
Michael King: Giving Beyond The Check: Non-Cash Giving

Recorded at the National Conference on Philanthropic Planning last week in San Antonio, Michael King of the National Christian Foundation shares the processes for closing gifts of unusual assets like collectibles, real estate and intellectual property.

Maria Semple
Maria Semple: Proactive Prospect Research

Regular contributor, Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, follows-up on her last spot by going into greater detail on making your small shop prospect research proactive.

 

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

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Here is a link to the podcast: 063: Non-Cash Giving
View Full Transcript

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Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for october fourteenth, two thousand eleven your aptly named host. This show is all about and always will be about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I hope you were with me last week when it was excel in email execution. My first guest was dave pulis, ceo and chief consultant at granite partners, and he shared five elements of effective email marketing and had tips for list hygiene. I hope your list is practicing safely and then claire meyerhoff, editorial director at the plan giving company and principal of the plant e-giving agency, revealed how to write for email fund-raising so that your message gets opened, read and respond to do this week e-giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning last week in san antonio, michael king of the national christian foundation shares the process for closing gift of unusual assets like collectibles, real estate and intellectual property. Then i’ll be joined by maria semple are regular prospect research contributor she’s, the prospect finder and she’s going to follow up on her last time on the show last month by going into greater detail on making your small shop prospect research proactive, and that segment is proactive. Prospect research between the segments. Tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. The national conference on philanthropic planning, where i was in san antonio last week, i’ll say a little about that, and this week’s block post separate the juice from the pits. A juicer at a restaurant got me thinking about fund-raising i’ll talk about that. We’re live tweeting this show as we always do. The hashtag is non-profit radio all one word to join the conversation with us on twitter. Right now, we take a break, and when we return, it’ll be e-giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com pompel welcome back, it’s, time now for my pre recorded interview with michael king, taken from the national conference on philanthropic planning, where i was just last week, talking about giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving and here’s. That interview. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio, texas, were on the river walk in san antonio. And my guest right now is michael king, with the national christian foundation in alphabet of georgia. His seminar topic is giving beyond the check launching generosity with non-cash e-giving michael. Welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Good to be here. A pleasure to have you. You you point out something interesting in your seminar description that most gif ts are cash but that’s not most of the assets that people hold. Why don’t you describe those numbers? Stores? Yeah. It’s. Very interesting. If you look at all of the charitable giving that is done in our country each year about three hundred billion over eighty percent of that giving is simply done in the form of cash. And of the remaining twenty percent. A lot of that is given in the form of maybe marketable securities war, household goods that are dropped off at the salvation army, your goodwill. And yet if you look at the composition of wealth in the nation, cash represents less than ten percent of what people own go. And so there’s this small pond that everyone is kind of fishing out of when there’s this ocean of additional opportunity that oftentimes just doesn’t come on to the radar screen of most charity he’s or donors or advisors. Now can non-cash gif ts be appropriate for small and midsize charities? It can be absolute, even in some of the, you know, the smallest charities that exist in local communities. It’s not unusual for them, tow have at least some, you know, wealthy, influential folks that might serve on their board or support their organization. A lot of ah gifting in this area that is that that could be a great opportunity is closely held business interests. And so even for some organizations that hold annual events, you know, oftentimes they’ll have businesses that will sponsor those events. And so right, there is a source of potential opportunity or folks that maybe interested for receptive e-giving interest in their business and probably have never even contemplated. And what about those again for the small midsize shop, the complexity? How would we’ll deal with some of the exact, you know, different types of assets, but sure, just generally these do require some expertise. How it’s too small a midsize shop to do about that? Yeah, that’s a good point, and i would even say there’s, no question there’s significant complexity to gifts of these these assets there can be no technical complexities, rial challenges in terms of liability that an organization might be subject to, so not only with small and midsize organizations, but even a lot of large organizations simply lack the manpower, expertise, knowledge to really facilitate these gifts in a meaningful way from my experience, there’s really only a handful of organizations that have a deep expertise in this realm, but a number of them are organized in such a way, often times they use a donor advised funds platform because some of the greatest benefits are able to be secured by that type of a structure. And so they do a lot of work with small, medium sized large organizations basically serving as a middleman so that those organizations don’t have to secure the full breath of that knowledge and expertise. Ok, but if they see opportunities, they can partner with some of these other organisations that will do much of that work while still directing those ultimate proceeds to that particular charity, how does the donor advised funds? Work? Well, the donor advised fundez in the context of charitable entities generally is probably the newest concept. Even though it’s been around since the nineteen twenties, it really wasn’t until the nineties, when the donor advised fund really kind of took off. People became very familiar with it. Much of that was facilitated by fidelity mutual fund company and so as more and more people have experienced this it’s really become one on opportunity for individuals with more modest means tohave, a charitable entity somewhat similar, very similar to a private foundation, without all the headaches and and hassles of dealing with a lot of the rules that apply there. But then, even for wealthy families, we have more and more families that are using the donor advised funds has an enhanced alternatives to a private foundation, michael white. Why is the donor advised funds more suitable for these types of non-cash gifts that we’re talking about yet, particularly when we’re dealing with non-cash assets? The nature of the charitable entity is of critical importance, and the reason for that is the deduction limitations that apply to a private foundation versus a public charity status like a donor advised funds sponsor. And so if you were to give appreciated assets other than marketable securities to a private foundation, the givers deduction would be limited to the lesser of the fair market value or basis. And so, therefore, if you have a business interest or a realist, a piece of real estate that was highly appreciated or depreciated for time. Jack purposes, you would only get a deduction for whatever basis you had on that basis is generally the caught your tax cost. It could be different if you earned it. If you got the asset through. Ah, requesting a will, but it’s, generally your tax cost in the in the asset, right, that’s correct. So you could end up. Your point is you can end up with a deduction that would be much lower then the fair market value. I mean, you’re much, much lower. Exactly. So take the take the situation, tony of a privately owned business. No, probably the common scenario is if a business is successful, it probably started in somebody’s garage or with moderate means and has little to no basis at all. So in those context, a private foundation is wholly ineffective in making gifts of that nature. But a donor advised funds or other public charity status entity will receive a full, fair market value deduction. And i think this distinction between this these these two entities is why so many opportunities in this realm are missed is because typically when somebody’s working charity or in advisors working with a wealthy family on they have a generous heart almost by default. We all think, oh, they need a private foundation. And if we’re working in the context of a private foundation, generally, these types of assets just aren’t appropriate. They won’t really leverage the tax benefits that they can if we’re using a donor advised funds or another five public charity status organization. So then a savvy gift planner at at a charity would recommend the donor advised funds over the private foundation for the reasons you describe it e-giving ending, ending the ending, the ending, you’re listening to the talking, alternate network, things getting thinking. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities. Dahna you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Durney are there other vehicles methods of of giving that are not directly to the charity that are that are more suitable for these types of assets? I would say. Generally, the structure of the donor advised funds provides the greatest flexibility. But even in the context of business interest in real estate, they can certainly be combined with split interest arrangements like charitable remainder trust, charitable gift annuities, charitable lead trusts, the complexity in that context mounts. But there could be some real advantages to incorporating those split interest arrangements in conjunction with non-cash assets as well. Okay, is a is a small or mid size shop likely tto find maybe expertise that could help with this on their board? Oh, and or let me put it differently, cause that’s obviously gonna vary by board aboard that’s, not that’s. Not well put what types of expertise might be required if if that that the charity would need if if the donor wasn’t interested in a donor, advised funds or for whatever reason, it wasn’t going to pursue that route. What types of expertise are needed? Yeah, the, you know, certainly a competent charitable in a state planning attorney and a very competent now. Is that for the representing the charity or you mean represented donor or one on each side? Yeah, i mean, theoretically, you could have one on each side, but to have somebody with just that the general knowledge to teo be ableto lay out a road map of hay here, the different issues we need to think through here the different structure and planning opportunities. It’s generally going tto be helpful toe have somebody with some fairly deep knowledge. From a technical standpoint, you did mention the board, and certainly the board can be ineffective. Resource, probably more so from the standpoint of identifying opportunities. Ok, ok, other expertise besides the person well steeped in the internal revenue code, who understands the implications of charitable giving? Yeah, not really. I mean on, especially if you if if you’re partnering with one of these organizations that does work in this area donorsearch vise fun platter, they typically have a pretty pretty significant breath of expertise. They’ll have accountants. Attorneys, though, of course, have the administrative folks that manage and maintain the donor advised funds platform. Yeah, i was thinking more of the charity that has a donor that doesn’t want to go, the donor advised funds away can’t go because you can’t afford or is not just doesn’t want to do the private foundation. What sort of what infrastructure does the charity need to have in place in terms of expertise before they can start talking to donors about these non-cash gift? Well, yeah, that’s a good question. Yeah, they certainly would benefit from having on the charity side on attorney your accountant well versed in these issues because the reality is those organizations, if they’re a standard five oh one c three public charity can take these assets in his well, so they don’t have the negative tax implications that the private foundation does, so they could certainly take these assets in themselves. They have the benefits that they be ableto provide to the families that they work with, and then it really would just be a matter of them being educated enough to be able to articulate the opportunities to the families that they’re working with. And then clearly those families are going to need to be represented also correct, these are very complex a cz you’ve mentioned transactions that khun involve the internal revenue code. Very d deeply, the person’s a state plan, et cetera. All right, yeah. So particularly in these in this type of planning, we always highly, highly encourage families to really involve their advisor team because of the complexity of those issues. And, you know, even if you have, ah charity that knows the family very well because of the technical issues that arise here, you know, there may be aspects of their business minute details that you know, they’re just not going to know that their attorney accountant might know, but it could be very important to the overall planning. What’s your advice about bringing in family members, let’s assume it’s, a husband and wife couple, they’re in their seventies. What about bringing in the children in that example, but could be other family members in a different example? Yeah, i think. It’s it’s, it’s i think it’s always great to involve children, grandchildren in charitable planning and endeavours to the greatest extent possible now, interestingly, when particularly when we’re dealing with family owned businesses. There’s a lot of planning that takes place in this charitable context that also involves succession planning within the family, so we will create structures. Where somebody might give interest in their business. Oh, and then ultimately, at some point, those interests are purchased from the children or a trust for their benefit and really serve as a mechanism or a component of the families ofthe overall succession plan, and by doing that, we can leverage not only family wealth transfer but charitable benefits as well. Aren’t we also minimizing the likelihood of any kind of a challenge to the gift if we if we inform and bring in other family members, so this is not a surprise to them, it can be depending on, you know, the the owner’s involved with a particular asset or business, even if they’re not family members. You know, if a charity all of a sudden becomes a shareholder in a business that can have impact and and raise issues for other shareholders, typically they’re not significant issues. I mean, generally speaking, the charity just simply becomes an additional shareholder to the organization. A lot of times, the family business is that we’re working with maybe owned holy in the family, just mom or dad or maybe some of the kids, but particularly when you get outside of that. And you might have nonreligious shareholders. They need to be aware of those implications and don’t always have the same objectives. So sometimes planning that might work well in a family contacts might not be applicable for somebody that has a business and they own it with non family. Were non related members let’s shift focus a little bit to the my voice is cracked sixteen years old to the er with a lot of gray hair to the different types of assets. What? Aside from cash and then appreciated securities or stock? What? What do we see as the the next or the most popular type of gift outside those arenas? Yeah, well, i think if you look at the three largest asset types in terms of the wealth composition in our country, they would be marketable securities, privately owned businesses in real estate, so that’s going to comprise the vast majority of wealth in the country. But there’s also lots of other types of assets. Intellectual property, collectibles, life insurance, oil and gas interests. Individual retirement accounts, there’s a lot of different assets that can provide leverage tax benefits as opposed to giving simply in the form of cash. In fact, a lot of times tony will say that there’s a lot of families that if they give chaired, give charitably in their generous, we suggest to them that it’s possible they should never make another cash gift in their life because these other asset type gifts non-cash asset yes, generally provide leverage, benefits. And so, as opposed to just simply capturing a charitable deduction, we might be able to get not only a charitable deduction, but we might be able to avoid capital gains tax. We might be able to secure income from that asset that will be exempt from tax so there’s typically kind of double or even triple benefits that can be captured with these other non-cash assets. So the families have a lot of those assets we say hey, yousa donor advised funds and use that as a storehouse so that you’re able to use these other assets when they’re converted to cash. Then give the cash out of the donor advised funds because you’re always able to leverage typically the tax benefits in that context. Let’s, look at the intellectual property gift. What are what are concerns there, let’s? Just say hypothetically, a donor comes in. She has authored some textbooks. Let’s say she has some physical books. Maybe she has let’s say a thousand books. She wants to give the books about that. Make it a school. So there’s some use for that and then. But then also she wants to give the intellectual property rights or copyright and whatever flows from that. What? What? What? What is the charity? Start asking? Where does it begin with that? To get that conversation started? Yeah, it’s. Interesting. Because there are numerous types of intellectual property patents, copyrights, trademarks, even things that we might not typically think of as an asset, like a process or a nohow that would fall into this category. So you specifically mentioned copyrights? Copyrights are kind of an interesting thing because there’s a unique rule that says, if you actually created the copyright, you are the author. You’re not going to be able to secure a charitable deduction for that just part of the rules. Now, if i had a copyright that i purchased from somebody else and all of a sudden it’s worth a lot of money, i purr argast you know the song writes of the beatles and then it appreciated in value, and i gave that away. I could secure a full, fair market value deduction so typically in a copyright situation, whether with an author or perhaps a musician, the primary objective or benefit there is once that asset is gifted, the royalty income that is produced from that asset escapes taxation with respect to the charity completely. So think about, you know, a major author, somebody that sold a book and is literally made multiple millions of dollars from that book if they’re in a position where they say, gee, i really don’t need all this income, they could give all or a portion of the copyright to that book, and then the royalty income that is then collected would go pro radha to the charity, and all of that income would escape taxation completely. Okay. And there’s still no deduction for the author who is the creator of the work? Correct for the continuing royalties? Yes. That’s correct. There’s there’s. No additional deduction now, let’s, let’s. Shift to a patent situation. Let’s say there’s something that somebody was able to patton the rules that apply there are that upon initial gift of that. Asset, the deduction that the giver will receive will be the lesser of fair market value or basis. Okay, we hear that again said that before you now there’s a special rule, though, that says for the next ten years you may be able to secure additional charitable deductions based on the royalty income that the charity actually receives. Oh, so different fromthe copyright example, we just had exactly. Yeah, and the reason they did this, tony, was they had i guess there were some people that were giving intellectual property rights that at least theoretically had some value, so they were getting a charitable deduction, but they weren’t really generating any income or usable cash that the charity could use. So they changed the rules and said, we’re not going to give you a big deduction up front. But if it is an asset that does, in fact, produce cash and benefits, charity will allow you charitable deductions for future years based on that, that income stream that the charity receives and the structure is kind of a sliding scale. So for the first two years, whatever the royalty income was that was collected, the giver would get one. Hundred percent deduction for that. Okay, and then it go ninety percent nineteen, seventy until it fades away. Okay. Okay. And the charity? Of course, khun still continue to get the royalty income for decades. It’s just that there won’t be a deduction for the donor. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, and i think in some context, you know, you think about some of the top authors out there. I’m not sure a lot of people completely understand or know how much revenue is generated from some of these books, but like the second best selling book of all time after the bible is rick warren’s a purpose driven life or the purpose driven life that book generated over fifty million dollars in royalty income and, you know, some of the political books barack obama, sarah palin oftentimes those books generated as much as ten million dollars or more in revenue, so you could see that if somebody has somebody someone that says g i don’t i don’t need all of that. I don’t need all that tend this kind of a windfall. I never dreamed that i’d write a book in it have this windfall there’s some phenomenal opportunities to really benefit charitable organizations in an incredible way. I think you said earlier that donor could give a portion of the royalties. Correct. Is that right? Okay. Yeah. There’s an issue there that you have to be very careful about. Because there’s a roller concept referred to as the partial interest rules, which basically says, if you give just a part of an asset that you own, you’re not going to get a charitable deduction, you have to give the entire interest and that can come into play here if somebody were to say, hey, i have this patent i want to retain the patent, but i want to give to charity a royalty stream. You can’t do that and secure charitable deduction. You would have to give a portion of both the patent itself, along with the royalty income that attach is to that. But even that portion is sufficient. Yes. Yeah. Sounds to me like the portion would be partial. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s. A bit confusing. Really? Get into some technicalities here, but you’re able to give an undivided interest of the hole. So if you give a twenty percent interest in both the patent and the associate id royalty string that doesn’t run afoul of these partial interest rules, although typically we would think justin regular definitions that, well, that’s a partial interests. But for purposes of the tax code, partial interest is not defined in a way that would include that type of construction. We’re seeing a very good example of what we talked about earlier in terms of the charity being properly advised with someone who has this knowledge and expertise because to the layperson, twenty percent is partial, right? It’s. Exactly. Right. Okay, but it’s not in the internal revenue code. And so when you have that need for expertise, we have just about a minute left. Or so we got into a lot of detail about intellectual property. Uh, if someone is approached about closely held business interest, really, as i said, just about a minute. What? What do they need to do? Tow? Just continue that conversation. What are they thinking about? The threshold? Yeah. There’s. Really? Two context. Big picture context. Where opportunities air created with a closely held business interest one is, if they’re expecting a sail on the near term horizon, they would simply give a portion of that. Business before the sale occurs, and therefore, in addition to getting the charitable deduction, they would also be able to avoid or at least reduced dramatically, the capital gains tax that would otherwise apply upon sale. So that’s one context the other contacts is when there isn’t a sail on the horizon, they want to give a business interest, and it may be held for years. There are opportunities there to give relatively small interests in the business on an annual basis to maximize the annual charitable deductions. So in other words, they capture significant tax benefits but are only e-giving small interest in their business. A lot of families will do this every year. The deduction thresholds under our tax code, our extraordinarily generous all of us could give up the fifty percent of our income in the form of cash and get a deduction. And if we’re dealing with a non-cash asset, we could deduct up to thirty percent of our income, but most people come not even close to capturing those full benefits, so lots of opportunities in that context, we have to leave it there. Michael king is with the national christian foundation in alphabet a georgia michael’s. A pleasure having you as a guest. Thanks, tony. Good to be here, my privilege. We’ve been talking about giving beyond the czech launching generosity with non-cash e-giving, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio two thousand eleven. That was my pre recorded interview with michael king, my thanks to him and the folks at the national conference on philanthropic planning. Right now, we’re going to take a break, then tony’s, take two and after that proactive prospect research with maria simple, so stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com oh! Dahna hi there. Welcome back. Time for tony’s. Take two. Always at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. So, as you heard in the first segment, i was in san antonio last week for the national conference on philanthropic planning. Recorded eighteen interviews in the two days that we were on the exhibit hall floor. There was a lot of buzz got a lot of buzz around the show and people would stop and watch the interviews. I was doing them, but i got a lot of great content for the show, and i’ll be playing those over the next coming months. Those eighteen interviews. My thanks to the conference organizers that worked out very well for for us and for the show. I think for them, i mean, and for the show and my block post this week is separate the juice from the pits. I was looking at a juicer in a restaurant here in the city a while ago, and it just got me thinking about, um, separating valuable work and necessary things that we have to do from the distractions that we can either take on ourselves or have foisted on us. And it got me. Thinking about fundraisers doing that so fundraisers, if you are engaged in things that you think are a distraction from your principal job and the things you hopefully enjoyed doing the most, which is meeting people, then take a look at those things that distracting you critically and try to get out from underneath a mme i’m thinking it might be administrative responsibilities that a boy a boss gives you that aren’t directly related to fund-raising could also be professional association, that committee work that you take on. Um, look at these things critically and see if there really supporting you in your primary job and if they’re not. If you feel like they’re keeping you away from that or distraction, try teo extricate yourself from them so that you can spend more time doing the things that you really love and that are your primary responsibility. And that is my block post this week again, the post is separate the juice from the pits, my blog’s that m p g a d v dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, october fourteenth. Very pleased now tohave back-up maria semple maria is the prospect finder you’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and she’s, the author of panning for gold hae networth prospects. Now, maria, welcome. Good to have you back. Thanks, county. Thanks for having me, it’s. A pleasure as always. S so we’re talking about proactive prospect research following up on what we talked about last month for small shops. Why is it just remind people why is it better to be proactive than just reactive? Well, if you could set aside some time in your development cycle, maybe some laws or even if you could get a disciplined is putting some time on the calendar at least once a month to do some proactive prospecting. It will continually generate a new pool of people. I guess in a sales world they would call it, you know, filling your funnel with prospects. And so if you could kind of have that mindset is always being in a mode of trying to connect with new people. It was going to help your your non-profit organization tremendously. As with any initiative, that’s knew we look to the board initial t get started. Is that right? I think that would be a good idea if you can harness your boardmember to bring to the table perhaps three new names to start on. We’re talking about people who could be potentially major gift prospects for the organisation, right and that’s, however, they define major e-giving right, exactly, and that does very greatly non-profits provoc some places that maybe a thousand dollars in other places that maybe twenty five thousand, right, exactly. Okay, so we’re asking each boardmember for two to three people is that if they can bring those names to the table and then you can research them a little bit further and then devised some sort of perhaps the cultivation event to start engaging some of these additional people for your non-profit so this is a way to involve board members in the development cycle, even if they’re not directly involved in the ask if they can at least get involved in the identification phase of the development cycle, that would be really helpful for you. Okay, wait delegating this to a specific committee on the board, or we’re asking the board at large well, again here, it depends on the size of the non-profit if you have a separate development committee, that would be great to delegate that taft to them, but if you don’t have the committee, i would involve the entire board having them understand that. You know, the goal here is to increase the major gift pool of prospect, okay? And you suggested that then there then be some kind of a follow-up event to invite new people, i presume we could ask a boardmember tau host that event or we could do something different? Yes, you could definitely have it at a boardmember home, or you could have it at your non-profit organization again here, depending on the type of non-profit you have, if you have something going on at your organization that you really want to showcase, maybe you have a stellar charter school or daycare center, so we might make sense to have more of a breakfast type event prior to the opening of the location. And then once the location is spilling over into the time slot, perhaps when the location is open so that you can then give people some guided tours through the facility and they can get a real sense of what this places like when it’s buzzing with kids, you know, so it really depends on the non-profit but it works really well to have a small, intimate gathering in a boardmember homos well and remember it’s a cultivation event, it’s not an ask event. So the ask does not happen at the event you’re there to inform latto really, you know, come across with the passion for the organization on keep it to the time slot that you have indicated to people that the event will take place when you talk to boards about this, what do you asking them to look for him? And i understand it’s ah, major give prospect. But how did they how did the board members individually try toe identify the right people. Teo, get there there two or three each? Okay, well, if they don’t personally know some people who fall into that category, they maybe only several degrees separated away from some of those people. One way would be for them to kind of be your ambassadors in helping you to continually can the newspapers, for example, of the who’s who in your community who’s getting involved in other large non-profits who is committed to perhaps some similar types of non-profits and whether they’re subscribing to the hard copy of the newspapers, or they’re assisting you by doing some targeted searches, your local libraries will have access to your local papers and a search functionality of art to search the archives and and toe look at daily copies of the newspapers online, so if they’re willing to at least get involved in that, or perhaps be willing to help you by setting up some google alert regarding where your community might be coming up named on specific pages of google websites and so forth, that might be really helpful to you in terms of trying to bring new names a light yes, so you can delegate some of what you might think you have to do you as the executive director or the development director might feel that you have to take on some of this could be delegated teo to some board members? Absolutely, especially if you have a boardmember who is really internet savvy? This would be a great task to delegate to them. This is going to be something that they’re going to be seeing feeling very comfortable about doing it’s going to be something very simple, they’ll understand what it is. You’re looking for and they will, people altum just really simply set up these types of searches for themselves and it’s going to help you in killing your prospect pipeline let’s talk a little about actually approaching the people, so now let’s, take a step back, let’s go to the board members, the people that they know personally, so not yet looking at newspapers or other publications, but the people they know personally, what do you train board members to say to the people that they want to invite to the types of events for talking about? First of all, i think that the passion and commitment for their organization must really come through, so they are ambassadors for the non-profit so their enthusiasm, their reasons for joining your organization and being committed to it and hopefully by the way committed is not only in time that money as well, so they shouldn’t be asking somebody to come to the table and learn more about the organization if they haven’t financially commited at whatever level they’re able to do for that organization so they may approach them by saying, you know what? I have this organization i’m involved with you. May have heard me talk about it. X, y. Z non-profit i’m really committed to this organization. You and i have talked in the past about how important it is to solve this specific problem in our communities. I’d love for you to come out and learn a little bit more about what we’re doing to solve this problem and see if it resonates with you, there won’t be an ass. We will not ask you for money that evening, but we’d like for you to just take some time out of your scheduled to come out and learn more, and you have to recognize to that this is often an exchange, some people we’ll invite their friends to the organizations that there supporting and then the expectation is that those friends air probably going to do the same. So as an executive director of darryl development director, you understand, understand that you’re not asking somebody to do something that isn’t that isn’t all that common, right? It’s probably already being asked of the boardmember, you know, on the other side as you just presented, so yeah, absolutely there these people are probably very accustomed to attending events that their friends have invited them to, um what about so now? Going beyond what you were starting refer to local newspapers, you might look at who other charities are cultivating and working with in those in those newspapers. Yeah, so you might if you are a a local organization. Let’s say, your your mission is health care related, but you see, or perhaps a small local community health center, it might be interesting to take a look at who some of the major donors are supporting the larger regional hospitals in the area and other health, larger health initiatives. If you have any major presence of cancer societies or association heart association, american heart association, so something like that might be useful for you as well. You can do that by prospecting the websites of those organizations or calling them for their annual report. Um, there are some sea bass resource is that do compile thiss type of information. All name two of them off the top of my head nose and see a we’ve talked about that one before knows, and then also i wave dot com has a list of donors that air captain. All this information, though, is really pulled from annual report, so if you are very localized in your mission and your geographic scope, that might be overkill, but if you’re you know, you could just contact the local non-profits directly to try and compiled some of those nameless and in just a minute or so that we have left before a break, how would the organization contact these types of people who we don’t have a relationship with what we found the ways you’re describing, best thing would be to bring those names to the light of the board members again here the ambassador is your organization. So before any direct outreach is made, see if there’s any way to get a warm introduction to any of these individuals, um and lengthen might even be a tool to help you in that regard. To find out how many degrees you may be separated from someone or see, the board is willing to run some of these names through their own lincoln accounts to see how many degrees they may be separated. So that’s a terrific tool for you to use and it’s a free tool. Your suggestion about asking boardmember xyz that’s sounds like literally you give them a list of names of potential prospects that that the organization has found and asking, what do you know them? Do you know anybody who knows them, that kind of thing, right? You’re proactively bringing names to the table that they should be littering as away. You know, how can we gain entree to these individuals? These are people who care about this particular cause in our community. Is there any way we can? What is the path to this individual? Is there any way you can help lead us there? We have to take a break. I’m talking to maria simple, the prospect finder, and after this break, we’ll continue. So stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. They get non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing effort. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile market. Their motto is we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com talking. If you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr robert panna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Welcome back and we’re talking to the prospect finder maria simple, our regular prospect research contributor samaria we’ve identified these people what’s the what’s the best way to start tio reach out to them should it be the people who we don’t have close relationships with by letter or by phone call or yeah, you might want to make sure that you at least add them into your database, so they start getting invitations to upcoming events that you might be hosting. Um, if you have, uh, if you have some way reaching out to them individually again here, you know, if you’re short staffed that’s going to be very difficult to be able to do, but at the very minimum, if you can at least get maybe even an intern to help start, get gathering information and even looking up their addresses on something like a four one one dot com or switchboard dot com free directory. Also, there are directories that you can look up information related to property assessments. So of course, there you’ll be able to get the name and address of individuals who live in your specific towns. So there are some free sites to go to to get that information as well. If you’re having trouble getting address, what are what are a couple of those free from one of the areas and this is probably available in most states here in new jersey, where i’m based use website called my central jersey dot com, which is actually a compilation of several newspapers in the state, and they have a link on their website called data universe and within data universities brought together a bunch of different public records. Database is one of them have to do with property records, so that is a really neat way to get into the property. Record databases it’s really easy to search you. You start with the county and then focus it down by town. And then you can either input the name of the street or in put the name of an individual auntie where their addresses in that specific town so that’s a free resource for you to be able to use it sounds like this prospect review work is something that’s ongoing. We don’t just do it once a year or something, right? I would recommend that they that they do it on going. As well on dh, you know, want one area that i did want to focus on today as well. Tony is not to overlook the successful business owners in the community, and here there are some very easy ways to be able to track what’s going on with successful businesses. And unfortunately, the press these days seems to really focus so much on the negative. How much is not going well in in thie economy to business markets, etcetera. But there are some companies that are doing okay, so if you are able to track and get subscriptions to or at least access daily online, the business publication that covers your state here in new jersey, it’s uh, nj biz new york city has crane’s new york. So whatever that business publication is that covers your state subscribed to it, and i even get daily alert from nj dot com that pushes information out to me on a daily basis of what’s going on. You need to get into a mindset of keeping up with what’s going on in the community. I don’t know how many of your listeners have read the millionaire next store, but a lot of the people that are profiled in that book are successful, self made business owners. So for those of you who have non-profit boards that really want to focus on let’s, just reach out to the big local corporations in the area. I’m not saying don’t do that, but it might be just as easy or easier to focus on where are the overlooked, successful business owners that are in businesses that are not getting a lot of press but yet are very successful. So the millionaire next store is really great for helping you identify what some of those businesses might look like. Um, also, publications such as nj biz will compile annually what they call their book of list and again all the business major business publications do this. This book of lists will profile for you, say, the top fifty accounting firms engineering firms. You know all these different sectors and gives you contact information. Full contact info who’s. Running the company, etcetera. There is very little distinction between who’s running the company. You know, the business owner on these private businesses and the business themselves. So your approach might either be to the business or to the individual. But either way, you’re really getting to the same person you mentioned the alerts that nj biz offers and you’ve mentioned earlier today and another times to the google alerts. I mean, these are all great free resource is that used to be what we would call clipping services, right? Absolutely, absolutely, i have free alert set up through google, so that information is pushed to me on a daily basis. So for example, i’m really interested in keeping up with what is going on in the prospect, a research arena. I’m also very interested in knowing what’s going on in the high network arena, so i actually have google alerts set up on the phrase prospect research on the phrase hi network, google goes out daily minds the internet for where those phrases are mentioned on websites or blog’s or news articles, etcetera magazines pushes the links to me, and then i can peruse them very quickly and determine which ones of those are very interesting for me to take a look at more and more in depth, so again, it it enables you to put something on autopilot whenever you have that chance to do that, please do. It just in the minute or so that we have left before we have to wrap up. There are ways of looking for family foundations that may be local to the community also, right? Right? Absolutely. So there are free resources and fi based resources to be able to do this. You can do it through your local foundation center. Cooperating collection. You’ll have the database available there. Ah, foundation search dot com is a sea bass to resource for you to be able to do this as well. And guide star guidestar dot org’s. So if you have your own non-profit listed with guide star, you could have access to their premium level of searching for free. Actually, if you help to maintain your own non-profits dahna status and presence on guide star so it has a double benefit there. So there are definitely some ways for you to start prospecting for family foundations, the’s air people taking philanthropy to another level on i highly recommend that you consider looking at this pool of individuals. Well, maria semple is our regular prospect research contributor. You will find her at the prospect finder dot com she’s also the author of panning for gold find high net worth prospects now she’ll be with us again next month. Maria, thank you very much. Thank you again for having me, tony. Always upleaf. Thank you. You always a pleasure. Bye. Now. I want to thank maria semple. And also thank michael king and the folks at national conference on philanthropic planning for all their accommodations when we were on the exhibit floor at their conference in san antonio last week. Next week. So you want to be a consultant guest, hank goldstein and i talked about the ins and outs the ups and downs of making a career move to non-profit consultant. And we’ll have jonah helper and ari team in in the studio with me to talk about next year’s or this year’s. Sorry. This year’s next-gen charity conference it’s next month in november. There the conference co founders and this show is a media sponsor for the conference. Keep up with what’s coming up for pete’s sake. Please sign a province. Cider email alerts go to the facebook page. You know where to find facebook, then just searched the name of this show. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 30, 2011: Engaging Employees & PR2: Prospect Research, Proactive or Reactive

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

Tony’s Guests:

DeShele Dorsey
DeShele Dorsey: Engaging Employees

Corporate employees can make gifts to your nonprofit, but they can do a lot more for you. DeShele Dorsey, senior managing director for corporate social engagement at Changing Our World, shares smart ideas on soliciting and closing companies for mentoring, pro bono service, board membership, service sabbaticals, loaned executives and more.
 

 

 

Maria Semple
Maria Semple: PR2: Prospect Research, Proactive or Reactive

Regular contributor, Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, explains the differences between the two ways to do your research, and how to determine which is right for your shop.

 

Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey, the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the podcast: 061: Engaging Employees & PR2: Prospect Research, Proactive or Reactive


Every Friday from 1 to 2pm ET.

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Fridays, 1-2PM Eastern

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Here is a link to the podcast: 061: Engaging Employees & PR2: Prospect Research, Proactive or Reactive
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Metoo hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio we were always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host last week, our big ideas were prospect research on women donors and learning lobbying limitations for the women donorsearch mint. Samantha cohen of the american civil liberties union was with me and she revealed, had a reveal the giving potential for your female prospects that’s often hidden, and that was the last of my pre recorded interviews from the association of fund-raising professionals, new york city chapter fund-raising day last june and the second segment was learning lobbying limitations, with our legal contributors, jean takagi and emily chan, there with me every month and last week they explained the limitations on lobbying by non-profits what activities are lobbying? How much of it can you do and how do you report it this week? We’re engaging employees. Corporate employees can make gifts to your non-profit, of course, but they can go a lot further as well. Deshele dorsey, senior managing director for corporate social engagement at changing our world, will share her smart ideas on soliciting and closing companies for mentoring probono service boardmember ship service sabbaticals, loaned executives and a lot more and then pr to prospect research. Proactive or reactive. Our regular contributor, maria simple, the prospect finder. We’ll always find it. The prospect finder dot com will explain the differences between the two ways to do your research and how to determine which is right for you, proactive or reactive. Between the segments on tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. Have you ever done a favor for someone and then felt that they let you down in some way? I’m going to talk about my block post this week, which is i’ll pick your brain and drop your list. We’re going to take a break, and when we return, then i’ll be joined by the shell dorsey and we’re going to talk about engaging employees, but i want to let you know we’re live tweeting. This show used the hashtag non-profit radio, and you can join the conversation on twitter and stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two nine six four three five zero two for a free counsel section. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Oppcoll hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Metoo welcome back to the show. I’m joined now by deshele dorsey, and we’re going to talk about engaging employees deshele is senior managing director for corporate social engagement at changing our world of fund-raising consulting company she previously worked for t c c group, where she provided a variety of consulting services to corporate citizenship programs and nonprofit organizations her clients, they’re included prudential, the gap foundation and henry street settlement in new york city. She’s, based in atlanta, georgia, and i’m very pleased to welcome the shell dorsey to the show hyre deshele hi, how are you? I’m doing very well welcome, thank you so much for having me. My pleasure. I want to remind listeners that we are live tweeting the show use the hashtag non-profit radio to join us on twitter deshele we’re talking about employee engagement, but individuals make up the largest portion of total giving, so why should non-profits be looking at companies, corporations? Well, corporations are committed to being good citizens in their community, which essentially means they want to be actively engaged in helping to address issues that not only would directly affect their employees but affect the places where they have operations. So it’s a nice opportunity for corporations to play, play a significant role in making sure where they operate are vibrant and lively. And do you know what what portion of total giving is from corporations? Yeah, it’s generally about ten, twelve percent, i believe a total getting every year and certainly that fluctuates, but his brain pretty consistently at that level. So, tony, you’re absolutely right. The majority of cash contributions in particular, come from individuals. Corporations do make a significant investment as well. Okay, yeah, and ten or twelve percent, i mean, that’s nothing to laugh at, so on it can go beyond ways that a lot of individuals khun give and that’s what we’re here to talk about. So we’re talking about employees in cos i mean, cos there are encouraging or maybe even creating incentives for their employees to be engaged with non-profits yes, absolutely there’s a variety of different ways that boy, you can get involved, and i think what most non-profits are familiar with this, certainly just the general assistance that a non-profit might have some common sort of community based activities such as, you know, going to your local food bank and helping pack pack four words stock shelves or maybe cleaning up a local park, but there are a variety of other ways that companies have looked to incentivize their employees to get out there. You know they have matching gift programs, sometimes employees, they’re just super busy, and maybe they can’t go out in the community. But imagine gift provides an opportunity for employees to give some resource is and double that gift because the company would match that contribution, right? Okay, and that’s on the fund-raising side and we want to go, we want to go beyond fund-raising and in fact, i pulled our listeners before the show and asked, what are your corporate solicitations limited to financial gifts and sponsorships and a hundred people? One hundred percent of people who answered said, no, we go broader than finance just financial gif ts s o we want and we want to talk about the broader stuff. So what are some of the other ways? And then we’ll go into detail on on a bunch of them that that people can employees khun b might be engaged beyond fund-raising and now that’s really great to hear that non-profits are actually exploring all the alternative ways that they can get support from a company, some of the more common ways would be bored service. A lot of companies will look to place their typically their senior managers in some of their hyre level executives on board and serving in leadership roles on those boards, some of the other things that have come to fruition more recently over the past two years, or things like probono service or skills, baseball and hearing. And this is a little bit different than a typical, you know, paint a school cafeteria project, you really looking at opportunities where you can take the employees skills and apply it to a challenge, one issue that a non-profit might have. So for example, you know, if a company sorry non-profit needed help with their human resource is activities and building out, you know, a talent management program, then the company has those skills, and they can apply them to the non-profit so this is sort of the company seeing the its its employees as assets beyond the contribution that making the workplace but but seeing them as assets for charitable giving, using their talents absolutely and there’s more and more of that happening, we see a lot of work being done in the environmental space in that regard. So you know, a company that might have skills on logistics, transportation can help a company, you know, helping non-profit think through how to be more efficient in their processes, for example, or thinking through how they might better use water that’s a part of their mission. When you look at sort of food related organizations so there’s a variety of ways that companies are doing it, the probono pieces, something that’s exploding pretty significantly, but it’s also harder, harder type of product to implement because that there’s more owners on the non-profit to be engaged, and we have just a minute before our first break deshele just how would a non-profit identify the companies that it should be targeting are soliciting? Well, i think there’s a couple of things one of you want to look at what your mission is and how that might online with the company, and then you certainly want to explore companies are much more transparent than they have been in the past about the ways in which they use their volunteers or their their corporate volunteers. And so they can go to their web sites often, and see listings of the variety of ways in which employees can be activated in the community. Okay, and it might also be based on location to write. You wanna look where what’s local to you, because we’re not talking about just big companies doing doing this social engagement, okay, we’re going to talk more about that. After the break. We’ll pick it up there would take this break, and then, of course, deshele dorsey will stay with me. We’ll keep talking about engaging corporate employees. E-giving anything shooting, getting depicting duitz duitz you’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving e-giving you could are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, this’s, psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that calm mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio, where live tweeting used the hashtag non-profit radio if you have a question for deshele door so you could also call eight seven seven for a tow for one two oh, i don’t know the phone seems so nineteen, seventy seven we have we have the hashtag use the hashtag for pete’s sake the phone seems so june okay deshele dorsey, right before the break, we were talking about small companies being involved in this i mean, so they’re also seeing there their employees as as assets for charitable giving, right? This is not only for, you know, ibm and google. Absolutely, and i would even venture to guess in many cases, because the smaller companies may not have the sort of cash resource is that a larger company might have, they would even be more apt to sort of offer their employees so you have law offices, you might have local facilities, you know, small mom and pop, you know, chain stores and things of that nature who would be more than happy to get involved and be a part of what non-profits air doing in the community and leveraging their place. They get engaged and another way i think teo learn about what’s happening with corporate engagement this way is through ah, a volunteer counsel in the area, and i know i’m going to ask you what, what that is, but i just want to pull give you the answers to our pre show poll, which were, you know, i asked, do you have a corporate volunteer counsel in your area? Yes or no? And then the third answer was what everyone chose. I better listen to the show because i don’t know what that is so deshele what is a corporate volunteer council? Well, the council’s really were set up through a lot of the work that companies were doing in partnership with the points of light institute, which i’m sure many of your listeners know emerged a while back with with hands on network and essentially, these are coalitions where companies are paying a membership to be a part of ah, conglomerate of their peers who want to get together and talk about that practices think about ways that they can be more strategic and support, and also champion corporate volunteerism and just support other civic activities and the way in which a non-profit can be used four to a council like that is really to keep those members informed about what’s going on in the community and how they could use volunteers helping maybe even tow, offer inside and suggestions on how they might work better in particular cause areas that are important to that communities. How could a non-profit find out if there is such a council in their community? The best way to find out is to leverage information that would be available on on the hands on network website. And if you go through there, there is actually a link that shows you where the corporate volunteer councils are, okay. And what about a local chambers of commerce? Could they be a good a good way of engaging with the corporate community? Yeah, i think what would be useful in terms of the chambers is that there are many events that are open to the public where corporations are actively involved in are sponsoring those events. So if you know local non-profits are looking for ways to network with company corporate executives than those air really great programs that happen on a regular basis where? You could just get out and network because sometimes it’s really about a matter of having that relationship that will help you to open doors, the opportunities that maybe in companies, whether they’re big or small and that’s a great resource to use as well. Okay, so we have the hands on network, the local chambers of commerce. Are there any other web based resources for matching companies with non-profits yeah, there’s, a lot of great resource is online, and a couple that i would recommend volunteermatch dot or you can go there and see what kind of activities are available idealised artwork is another option, there’s a couple others, i would look at served dot gov, which also has a number of initiatives that they’ve sponsored with companies and the other was all for good. And the thing to keep in mind that non-profit should understand is that the a lot of these websites are populated into management system that the corporations will use to help provide a sort of gateway for their employees to learn about volunteer opportunities so non-profits that are listening to your show should definitely check out the sides and think about posting the opportunities. That they have available, whether that’s for general volunteering or something more significant, like the skills base that we discussed earlier, then after the charity has identified the company’s based on mission match or locality, or where employees air based from that company. Um, how do you then approach? How do you start your solicitation? Yeah, that’s a really good question, and every company is going to be a little bit different. And i would love to say that there’s like, easy, a magic bullet in getting that. But sometimes, if if they’re retail based company, it might be going into that local store and approaching the manager there no that’s applicable for a lot of places, like a target or, you know, our kroger or a walmart for that, for that sake, the other is that a lot of local areas will have what they call internal volunteer committees. And so hopefully there’s information that might be on the website that will help you figure out how teo contact someone on that committee, and then they would then in turn, brings the opportunities in house. The other things that your listeners could consider is that many companies offer what? They called days of service and assuming that there is an opportunity or a match between what the company wants to do and the mission of the non-profit then there may be weighted submit information that would perhaps make them eligible to be considered for a day or a week or a month of service activity that company would host, and if in the first example you gave, you know, just really walking into a local store target or something similar, just maybe something that is like you said earlier, mom and pop, you’re it may be an easier ask solicitation because you’re not asking for money, which probably a lot of non-profits air doing, but you’re asking for sharing of expertise? Absolutely, you know, it’s it’s certainly an equally important ask and what’s relevant for the non-profit is to make sure when they are prepared to go in front of the company, as i mentioned before, that they’ve done their homework, they really understand what the goals and objectives of the companies, but also that they’ve clearly defined what it is they’re looking for and having corporate volunteers activate because that is one of the tension points that a lot of companies experience, but also making sure that the non-profit has given sufficiently time to help develop in shape what the project might be so both entities can be successful in the process. My guest is deshele dorsey and she’s, a senior managing director for corporate social engagement at changing our world of fund-raising consulting company were talking about engaging corporate employees, all right, so deshele we’ve we’ve identified, you know, howto pick the right cos to approach and how to start that approach let’s talk about it in detail some of the ways that we can actually get company employees involved board service is probably one of the easiest ones and most commonly understood, right? Yes, absolutely. And really, what you’re looking for here is your board has responsibility with the non-profit really govern and make sure that the mission is being met and you may have particular needs whether that around finance, whether that’s around organisational development or maybe you just need someone that has a really has a really good network, and you want an opportunity to kind of broad and your donor-centric you don’t want to be abusing your board members in that way, but most most poor members and really sad ones understand that when they come to a non-profit part of their responsibilities to help with fund-raising and so that is a definite opportunity that can be pursued with, and we’ve had plenty of guests on the show that have have talked about what’s appropriate in inboard engagement in terms of fund-raising and friendraising and other things so that’s why i think boards service is probably the first thing that comes to mind when we think about engaging corporate employees, but but for maybe the smaller company, the or the bigger companies doesn’t have people to devote to that kind of time commitment. There are lesser ways, smaller time commitment ways, but still valuable ways that companies can share their their employees expertise, absolutely. And you see this manifesting in a couple of ways, sometimes time’s, a company made offer just time with some of their middle managers in your executive to do mentoring and coaching with with non-profit executives and we’ve seen that great work come to fruition through leadership development program that a company like american express had in other instances you could have your executives loaned out to a non-profit for duration of time and this is called what we what we say is loaned executive and you may say, you know what? We really would like to help have someone on board to help us transition through this change. Our ceo has left the non-profit and now we really want to have someone in either to mentor that person orto help facilitate the organization, moving in another direction alone, executives to come in and be with you for a year, maybe two years and there, you know, and eventually lend out, went out from the company non-profit on dh, then you wait, okay, so let me stop you. Deshele so so for a period of a year or two there cos they’re willing to pay the salary of the executive and have them work in the non-profit day in, day out? Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes they’re shorter durations, obviously that that’s a huge commitment, but this is really designed for individuals who are emerging leaders because the companies could see it as a development opportunity. But also this is a good way for for non-profits think about engaging retirees, people who are leaving the work for us full time. And they’re still looking to be actively engaged, and the company might help to facilitate that person being part of the non-profit okay, excellent, yeah, please go ahead, continue. Um, and i was just going to say the other is obviously the skills based and again, that is really focused on a very specific in country of khan concentrated project for a shorter period of time typically wouldn’t necessarily take a whole year, but in that instance, you might get a whole team of people that are coming in but say you want to revamp your system, for example, about those that those individuals will come in to work with you on a regular basis. It’s almost like having a consultant come in, but what you’ve done is in exchange for having to pay a fee for that you’re actually getting the company lindell’s skills for you. So, like, the so the employees there sort of taking a sabbatical, maybe for a couple of months or something like that to do a discreet project like that? Um, it can be a formal sabbatical as and they’re taking full time often in most cases it’s really that they’re dedicating some portion. Of their work week be with the non-profit and helping them over a duration of time so it could be they’re dedicating a day or two a week to that non-profit and they’re still working there full time job, but they’re sort of set aside this time to do this probono project or maybe they’re just doing in after hours they’re doing it on some of their free time as well and facilitating that. But the the goal is you created a really concrete projects for this team of employees to work on, and they’re going to support you for whatever duration of time is necessary to complete that product. Okay, excellent. And then maybe something a little less formal, but suppose a non-profit just feels they’re a little that could use a little expertise, just like a couple of hours a week in a certain area, maybe it’s communications or marketing or i mean, it could be anything i imagine that kind of lesser commitment is possible too, right? Yeah, and i think a lot of companies would still see that as part of a way that they could lend the skills of their employees there to a non-profit and helping to support their, you know, growth and development. Um and it really will depend just what the company’s willing to do skills base is a new area of growth fur company so many are learning and figuring out how to set these up and howto work appropriately with non-profits and the time frame can sort of be negotiated, depending on the relationship you have with that particular company. No. Ok, so these air excellent evidence that i think a lot of non-profits don’t think of i think they just think of the corporate sponsorship on dh many think stop there s o these air these excellent ideas, thank you. I wantto spend a little time on employee e-giving just in the future, a couple of minutes that we have left and i was monitoring the small or engaged in really in the small non-profit put that on twitter and the hashtag is sm and pee chat it’s run by pamela grow and mark pittman on dh they were talking today about employees e-giving in terms of monthly monthly giving, um, and i wanted to share something that came from there from that chat that small non-profit shot that the the most common gift is roughly ten dollars, per pay period, and that came from someone named at philanthropy inc. Deshele is that? Is that about what you see that’s sort of an average gift? Ten dollars per pay period? Yeah, when you’re when you have companies who are engaged in what we often call federated campaigns, the most common one being united way, you will have employees who make a commitment to pledge some dollar amount and take a small portion of that out of their paychecks over an extended period of time, and that just makes it easier for the donor to be able to make that contribution instead of having to, you know, in some ways, write a big check all at once. Yeah, about ten dollars is probably right, and i would imagine, you know, with the recession, it will probably stay at about that level people are, you know, we’re getting back on their feet, okay? And the thie advice for soliciting that type of a gift from from your prospects there was there was a sort of a consensus on the small non-profit chat, and it was summarized by at pamela grow that it’s best to do a dedicated appeal to the audience, dedicate appeal for monthly sustaining gift’s rather than make it part of a broader appeal? What’s your sense of that? Yeah, no, i think that is absolutely fair and the reason that that’s important for non-profits understand is because individuals really wantto have a better sense in a transparent way of what their individual dollar is going to do. So if you’re offering the donor hyre thie opportunity to say, i’m going to invest, my resource is and i know whatever dollar amount i gave is really going to go to help support this local tutoring program that’s my community that’s a little bit different, andi is a lot more tangible, and they can see the value of their contribution more directly a lot of non-profits has done a really great job of saying if you donate x number of dollars, it translates into, you know, this many hours of tutoring, for example, that makes the donors feel really good and they can they can communicate even and share the passion and enthusiasm they have about working with your organization, they can tie it to something tangible, and they’re also seem to be a sense that the donors often increase their their monthly giving. Yeah, i think, as as thie donor, to know your organization much better has a better appreciation for what you’re trying to accomplish and also that the non-profit has taken the initiative to engage the donor beyond the gift. So whether that’s inviting them to special event that’s applicable or, you know, communicating with them through a newsletter and some of the online platforms that we have now, the donor’s affinity will certainly increase, and as a result of that, they’re likely to consider giving a greater good. My guests have been deshele dorsey, senior managing director for corporate social engagement, a changing our world deshele thank you very much, thank you so much, it’s been a real pleasure, and i also want to thank everybody who was on the small non-profit jet run by at pamela grow and at mark a pittman today, we tried to join those small non-profit chats when we can and when the topics are are consistent across their chat and my show after this break, it’ll be tony’s take two and then i’ll be with maria simple and we’ll talk. About proactive versus reactive prospect research. So stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you feeling overwhelmed and the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to the show, it’s, time for tony’s take two, which is always roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. My block post this week is i’ll pick your brain and drop your list that comes from something that’s happened pretty recently past couple months, i guess, where i helped out to people with fund-raising advice fund-raising advice for one, and then the other was arranging a fund-raising internship with a with a former client for a second person, and and then they subscribed from my email list. Unsubscribes and, you know, i thought it’s not really a huge deal let’s face it, there are much bigger things teo concern ourselves with them whether somebody is getting our weekly emails, but i just thought, you know, that seems kind of ungrateful after i had helped them both with pretty substantial time commitments, like maybe is an hour and a half for each of them if you put it all together and then they unsubscribes so was i was i being unreasonable? I don’t know. I mean, i don’t i certainly don’t help people with a quid pro quo in mind. I’m never looking for you know, i helped you. So now what you gonna do for me in the next six weeks, or wherever? But it just seemed a little weird to me, actually, so i wondered if i’m being unreasonable or hypersensitive, and so that’s. What i asked in the block post, and i got a bunch of comments, and i’d appreciate your opinion of that, or or your or maybe another story. Maybe you’ve got something similar. I’m interested in your take on the whole subject and that’s, my block post this week, which you’ll find at mpg a d v dot com, and that is tony’s. Take two for friday, september thirtieth with me, now, is maria simple, um, ria. Maria symbol. Very simple is the prospect finder durney hyre maria, would you put me on hold now? I had you on mute at my end, so you wouldn’t hear me making noise. Well, that’s all right, i’m glad we didn’t hear those odd noises, but but then ewan muted. Okay, maria simple is the prospect finder. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com. And we’re talking this week with our regular prospect research contributor about proactive versus reactive research. Maria, what is reactive research? Okay, so reactive research is when a nonprofit organization has the name of an individual say that they know they’re going to approach, and then they decide. Well, what i’d like to do is research that individual a little bit more before i make an approach to them. And then, um, i asked him for a gift, so that would be unknown individual. And you’re going to be looking for information on them. Okay, so that would be reactive research. You already have the name of someone, and you want to just find out more information on them. Okay, um, and what is proactive than so proactive research is when a non-profit, perhaps their staff and and or their development committee eyes sitting around saying g, you know, we feel like we’ve exhausted all of our current donors think about looking outside of our current donor is and tryingto identify some more individuals who can donate to us either individuals, foundations, corporations, whatever the category is, but they want to broad in their base of support, so they proactively go out and try and find additional people who might be interested in there cause because they might be donating to other similar interests self, and we’ll find out howto uncover those additional people. In the pre show survey, i asked which best describes your prospect research in your shop? Is it mostly proactive or mostly reactive? And everyone said that they were mostly reactive, just researching the people that they already know so let’s try to encourage people, perhaps to be a little more proactive, but if you’re a small shop, maybe that’s not really possible, right? Well, the thing is this, tony, you have opportunity there are going to be sort of natural low for any staff of a non-profit whatever the size is so you want to take advantage of, perhaps. Those known lo period for you, when you’re not really ramping up for an event, for example, when you have the opportunity to perhaps sit back and take a look at the big picture, you know and say, all right, what can what else can we be doing to look for additional donors for our non-profit so it definitely can be done, but what i would say is they should build it in and put it on the calendar. You mean the calendar, like they would put on a calendar on events, teo, cultivation of aunt or any of the other type of event they might be having make sure that they build in some time to be able to sit back and proactively think about how to expand their donor base. Okay, so actually so callin during time for prospect research that’s what you mean, yeah, to proactively be able to do it? Because the reactive research, whether even if they’re just going to google and no further, they’re probably at least doing that, right? So they have a meeting with somebody or a company, and i would hope that they are, at minimum, looking at google to find out the more information prior to that business meeting. And then if you are limited to the reactive research there are you can certainly go beyond google looking at the names that you already know. Oh, yeah, absolutely. There’s a lot of free web sites as well. A fee based. I actually have a going beyond google for download document. Right on my web site on the resource is page so that’s free for the taking and there and available. So there are definitely resource is that can help you. And if you’re not able to look at your database and trying to determine who to research in the database, then there are companies that will screen it for you so that the names could be elevated. Okay, but those air always fee based services, right? Okay, what might you be looking for within your own data if you’re going to do this on your own to determine who you should be paying more attention to? What i think they can do is take a look at the longevity, how long the donor has been contributing to them, even if it has been a very consistent amount of dollars over. A long period of time and, you know, long period of time varies, you know, for the non-profit but i would say somebody’s been giving to you for a ten year period, and they’re consistent about it. The text seems to come in every year at the same time that somebody who’s made a commitment here. Non-profit and you are somewhere in their fearful answer bait. So longevity of gift size of gift matters. And also if somebody just happens to send you a check for an amount that is way out of the range of their normal e-giving that’s a flag as well for you to think about researching them a little further and cultivate that relationship, okay? And this is all with an eye toward perhaps elevating their giving. Is that right? Yes. That’s. Right. You want to take a look at doing this type of research so that you are taking people that are currently tied into you in some way, shape or form they’ve bought into your mission. They love your non-profit they’re committed to you on dh. You want to think about how to engage them further and elevate their giving? Okay? And you identify. That commitment, a cz you were describing based on their giving history, right? Absolutely. And, you know, let’s not forget people who are longtime volunteers for the organization because there are people who, i guess, unfortunately have the mindset of, well, i give my time to your organization, therefore, i don’t need to give my money on day, maybe give giving their money elsewhere so it might be kind of interest, i think, to take a look at some of those very, very committed volunteers who are giving of their time, but not money and researching. Well, what are they doing in the community in terms of money? And is there some way we could further the conversation so that we can be included in there monetary philanthropy and not just giving of their time? It occurs to me that the research we do when we’re looking for planned e-giving prospects is all reactive because you can’t bring someone new to the organization and then and then expect them to be a plan giving prospect and asking them to include the organization in their will or some other state plan when they’re just brand new to the organization, so we’re always doing, i never i never really i never described in this way, but looking for plan giving prospect for always doing reactive research that’s, right? You’re always reactively taking a look at people committed to the non-profit and you’re probably looking for all those same signs that i would be looking for, you know, that longevity of gift size of gift again, just looking to elevate them to perhaps a larger gift or as you just mentioned, maybe they’re absolutely right before a planned gift at this time or at least to be thinking about that conversation. And the key thing about looking for those plan giving prospects is when you’re looking at the donor’s longevity, as you were describing maria, the consistency of giving you don’t want to ignore the smaller gift, even if someone’s been giving ten dollars, a year, and if they’ve been doing that for a decade or more, you know, seven out of the past ten years or eight, fifteen or eighteen of the past twenty years that makes them a great plan to giving prospect, i think it could make an excellent plan giving provoc fect yes, absolutely, you know? And as i mentioned there are just some very inexpensive free resource is that you can go to to just find out a little bit more about that prospect, just to see if you can elevate that conversation to that point and s so let’s. Then now go beyond the reactive into the into the proactive. So hopefully this is ah, smaller non-profit that finds its slow time and sets time aside for prospect research or it’s a bigger shop. And they have the resources to do more proactive going outside the database research. How would they get started? I think one of the things that they can do is take a look at the other non-profits in the community who might be garnering some of the larger gift. Especially if that non-profit is somewhat similarly related. Admission. Teo, you so, as an example, if you have a women’s health and counseling center and they are interested in expanding their donor base, they might take a look at who’s giving to the local cancer societies, the local harder association, the local hospital. Anything having to do with health related mission. Okay, maria, we have to take a break. We’re going to continue this. Exact topic about ah, carrying on your proactive research with maria semple are regular prospect research contributor. After this break, so stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Dahna oppcoll this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. 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We’re live tweeting use the hash tag non-profit radio i want to thank fundraiser beth and at fund-raising bethan at dominique de jones for joining us on the live twitter chat. I’m with maria simple and she is our regular prospect research contributor. We’re talking about doing proactive versus reactive research, so maria let’s just continue in going proactive, trying to find people outside your database and acquire new donors. Your advice is right before the break was toe look for non-profits that are maybe similar in mission and see who’s giving there. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, during the break i was also thinking about another excellent free tool that we all have available to us is linked in, and they’re for example, you might be able to find people who are interested and easily connected to okay for explaining to them what your organization is about and so on and so forth. You and you and i talked about your interested in urine, anand immel welfare non-profit and you would like to connect with more people in your community who are interested in animals and pets, etcetera, so you can go and do a key word. Search on the advanced search page of lengthen log into your account, go to the advanced search page um and find group right. Would that have on interest in animals and you’ll find quite a number of them. So there’ll be people from all walks of life who are keenly interested in animals. You can also go to the keyword field and look for people in a specific geographic region who might have the word animal somewhere in their profile listed. So you know something like that can be very, very helpful in expo being your daughter donordigital base or your volunteer or board based and again it’s free and i love that little of detail. Thank you very much. That’s i think most helpful toe listeners. Another way of finding out who gives to organizations is just by getting their annual report. Yes, absolutely. And sometimes those annual reports are available right online in a pdf downloadable format so you can take a look at those annual reports and try and determine who’s giving. You’re not going to get an exact dollar level, you know is most daniel reports might list somebody giving it the silver bronze gold level. Platinum, etcetera, but you’ll have at least an idea of the range of where somebody is giving. So definitely, i look att annual reports of non-profits whether i’m doing reactive research or pro active research so absolutely could be useful in both in both cases and if it’s not available on the web, you can always just contact a non-profit and asked him to mail you a printed copy, right? Yes. That’s right old school. Just like the phone. So joon, old mail phone. We don’t need these things dispense with this. I don’t believe that. Just joking. So there are also some online resource. Is that you like? There are. There are several bass resource is that i like you think for a proactive research. Would you like me to mention if you’ll please detail? One century source might be wealth engine. They actually have a prospect generator tool that you can utilize with their particular service. I like i wave dot com i w a v dot com. They also have the capacity to do some pro active research. They have donor-centric sample where you can put in the name of a specific non-profit or type of non-profit. And lists of donors who gives to those non-profits will will be generated for for you. And you know, you would have to parse the data so that it’s suitable to your particular geography. But, you know, it’s it’s definitely doable news resource is and that’s, something you could do for free. You can go to your the library website dahna and log in using your library. Barcode you know, we’ve talked about that before in previous show using the local library. Yes, yeah, absolutely. So you can tap into the local news. There were statewide news resource is for free through your library link, and then be able to do some research on people who are, you know, named is the who’s who in the community people being honored things of that nature on and perhaps find more people who are interested in your theme newspaper like the u s mail in the phone. These things still exists. Yes, and they’re not expensive. Used them for pete’s sake. I mean, they’re so you know, i don’t know they’re so under thought off is what i’m trying to think of. What about that could even be local foundations right in a in a community may be local family foundations or something. Yeah, so what? You might want to consider doing iss every non-profit organization has the capacity to search a source called guide store, and they can search on their advanced search level, actually for free. Tony ok, a thousand dollar level of service that non-profits concert for free, they’ve agreed to maintain their own non-profit data, which is a win win all around, right? You’re getting a better story about out about your own non-profit and then you also have access to their premium level of search. You and i talked about that that what you would hopefully do is go in and identify more family foundations in your geographic community. Okay, you put in a zip code, you can go out, i believe, about a hundred mile radius from your zip code search for those family found foundations. These are people that have decided they’re going to take philanthropy to a new level, and they’re getting serious about it, and they have decided that they’re going to form a family foundation to filter their giving. Those are excellent prospects to go after pro, actively researching what i usually suggest to a non-profit once you have that list let’s say you identify one hundred new family foundations in your community that you serve that you didn’t realize existed. Take a look at the trustees of that foundation. Circulate the names of those trustees with your board wave your key volunteers. See if anybody has a connection to any of those people trying to make it more of a warm introduction as opposed to a cold introductions. Marie, we have just a minute left before we have to stop. What about business? Resource is like business publications or the chambers of commerce. Chambers of commerce. Their excellent. Most of them will have their membership directory searchable online. Also again, through your library link, you confined businesses. Uh, tailoring your search on a resource called reference yusa. You’ll be able to find businesses and business owners through that particular resource. So i think those could be excellent sources. And not every business is doing terribly these days. So try and take a look at what is doing well and focus your efforts there. Great detail. Thank you very much. Maria. Welcome. Maria simple is the prospect finder you’ll find her at. The prospect finder dot com she’s, our regular monthly prospect research contributor she’s, also the author of panning for gold, find your best donorsearch prospects now been a pleasure having maria on i also want to thank deshele dorsey from changing our world for being a guest today next week. I don’t know it’s gonna be a show from the archives? I haven’t chosen it yet, but there’s a way that you can find out you don’t have to wait until next friday at one p m eastern. When the show starts, you can sign up for our show alert duitz and you could do that on our facebook page. You know where facebook is, then just searched the name of this show and there’s a link there. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 2, 2011: The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

Tony’s Guest:

Robert Penna in the studio.
Robert Penna: The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox

This is an important show. Dr. Robert Penna, author of “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox” discusses the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement, and gives concrete steps and tools so that small and mid-size shops can stay ahead of the trend toward outcomes assessment. We also talk about Easy Bake ovens and my Eagle Scout project (as an example of what NOT to do).

Tune in on Friday at 1pm ET or follow along on Twitter with the #NonprofitRadio hashtag. 

Here is a link to the podcast: 057: The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox.


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Zoho welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope that you were with me last week for first segment the goods on google, plus our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, scott koegler shared insights into whether google plus is different than what we’ve already got in the social media space and how to help you to decide the answer to the question should we jump into google? Plus, when organization page has become available and we also did a live google plus hangout second segment last week was breaking down barriers. Megan galbraith, managing director at changing our world, had strategies to get public relations, communications and fund-raising working together for greater efficiency this week, the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox a complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results discusses the wave of reliance on outcomes, measurement and how small and midsize non-profits khun ride it comfortably alongside big shops and learn lessons from the corporate community on tony’s, take two from my block this week if donors are investors, then they need a motley fool. I think we’re going to see the rise of investment advisory services. There were a few, but mostly for the wealthy that recommend giving to some charities and against giving to others, which is very different than what we have in the space today. That’ll be on tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour we’re live tweeting today, use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter. We take a break right now, and when i come back, i’ll be joined by robert penna. We’re going to talk about the non-profit outcomes toolbox, so stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Geever hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. My guest now is robert penna. He is the author of a complete i’m sorry. The non-profit outcomes toolbox. A complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results published by wiley and sons. He’s, a consultant and his work includes the application of corporate sector, outcome based tools and insights to the work of non-profits he’s done work for the n e casey foundation, the national geographic foundation and the ford foundation. He’s, an adviser to charity navigator on outcomes. I’m very glad that his work and his book bring him to the studio. Robert. Welcome. Thank you very much for having pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming all the way down from albany. No problem. Live in the studio. In the studio. We hear an increasing amount of talk about out comes out comes measurement. Why is that? I would save it for basically two reasons. A one’s historical. The fact is that traditionally and this goes back easily to the beginning of the last century. No one ever asked non-profits to be quite fair. No one ever asked non-profits to either show evidence of or to demonstrate that. They were having an actual impact that was sort of a field of dreams and concept. If we make it available, things must get better, and it was taken on faith that train people with good programs with enough money would bring about positive change. Nobody actually quite asked altum that all started to change in the late seventies and then into the eighties, and quite independently of one another in various spaces, this concept of a focus on results in outcomes and evidence of same started a crop up, and it began to coalesce and particularly as we are in an in an era of limited resource is it becomes more important than ever for non-profits to be able to say here’s actual evidence of what we’ve accomplished, as opposed to a story about how big the problem is or how hard we’re trying in his forward ken berger, president, ceo of charity navigator who’s been a guest on the show, says that measurement is a battle for the very soul of the nonprofit sector. It’s taking on that great a prominence? Yes, it is that actually that line comes from a from an article ken and i co co authored it really is because there are those apologised who honestly believe in its ah term use before a fair exchange of differing ideas. You honestly believe that non-profits and their clients should not be held tio this kind of accountability that the concept of just making services available truly is the mission of the non-profit space and that as long as they’re doing that, they’re doing their job. The problem is that for all of the money we’ve spent thes problems haven’t gone away. And so the question is, shouldn’t we be putting our our resource is into those programs into those organizations that have proven that there having the most beneficial impact, as opposed to giving it to other places that are perhaps not being as effective? The problems are too big, and the resource is of too scarce not to do this anymore, but it truly is a battle within the sector because there are those who just don’t believe in it, and we’ll get to a little of what their arguments are, maybe obliquely only, but that some of the ideas are so nebulous that they can’t be measured that like a child feeling a more positive. Ah, feeling about education or about going to school, sort of nebulous ideas like that. But actually, those, um, sort of feel good outcomes can be measured. Well, first off, i would argue that if an organization is focusing primarily or almost or solely on, feel good outcomes, they’re rethinking what they’re doing. Number one. But number two, there are proxies. There are proxies in terms of attitude, in terms of behaviour, in terms of various other kinds of things that can be looked at and can be taken as fairly accurate measures of whether or not if what, you want to changes in attitude, whether or not that attitude has changed. So it can be done. And we’re gonna talk about some of the ways that non-profits get there and the way that we can measure these things. Is the butt is the story is the non-profits story the compelling story is that is that dead? Well, it it shouldn’t be dead, but what it should be, what should happen is that should be put in its place, okay? The idea of telling a story is not a bad one, in fact, that there’s a whole chapter in the book that talks about using narrative as opposed to just factoids, because people remember stories where they have a tendency to forget much more vivid right stories vivid. But the problem is, if the if the story first off focuses on how big the problem is and that’s all it, it focuses on, and there are a number of non-profits i won’t name any, but you could probably think of them. You get through with the things in the mail and they show you the picture of x, y or z and it’s always how big the problem is when we’re telling that kind of story and that’s all we’re telling we are, in a way, avoiding entirely the question of well, what are you doing about it? And what other results that you have that you have achieved? So that’s one one reason why the story has to be put in his proper place? The second is, and i don’t know whether we’ll get into this today, but a lot of non-profits wind up telling the wrong story for the wrong reason and ofttimes to the wrong people so that something has to be carefully handle is okay, we have just another minute before a break, what if not a named example? What do you mean? Telling the wrong story? A lot of non-profits will focus on an emotional story that will highlight, for example, a success story, and it will be about this client of that client, but inadvertently, what they’re doing is they’re focusing the attention on that client. What we don’t know is, is that story cherry picked? How representative actually is it what they’re not talking about is thie the the work that the organization as a whole does it’s it’s? Shall we say it’s it’s macro impact? They focus so specifically on the story of this particular client at that particular point that becomes very easy for their overall message of what they’re doing to be lost, counterproductive in counter falik snusz his book is the non-profit outcomes. Toolbox, it’s, robert penna. You’ll find his blogged outcomes, toolbox, dot com, and he’ll be with me after this break. So stay with us because you didn’t think to getting dink dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. Thank you, cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future. You dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight. Three backs to one to seven to one eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed and the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Metoo welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio talking to robert penna about his book the non-profit outcomes toolbox right before the break, robert, we were talking about for too much focus on problems, but the non-profit sectors exists to solve problems. So shouldn’t they be talking about what the problems are? Well, again, it has to be put into its proper place in its proper perspective. And this is not, you know, women teo, bash the sector. Okay, i mean, we have to be on it eyes and say, this is a historical perspective and very early on this was how attention was brought. Tea to issues were literally going back to the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds pompel people, for example, he’d carry nation she’s well known for wanting teo, bring about prohibition. Well, what she talked about was all of the ancillary downsides of alcoholism, all right, and the folk. But the focus was on drink. The focus was on people drinking too much. And the idea was they didn’t think think it through to say, well, what’s really gonna happen. What other causes here? It was just too focused on the drinks, and we had prohibition and guess what? All of those issues did not go away. The issues of broken families, the issues of domestic violence, the issues of unemployment, the issues of of poverty didn’t go away just because we we got rid of alcohol for those period that period of time. So part of the problem of the focus on just the problem is it tends to lead to simplistic answers, because the concept is that progresses a lack of the problem when, in point of fact, really, the outcomes approach is that what you want to do is bring about some positive change that goes beyond merely an absence of the problem. So that’s one of the problems with focusing on just the problem, the second thing is that it kind of takes you off the hook if you think about it, for having to say, really what you have done to alleviate the problem or what success you’ve had in alleviating the problem. If every time i come back to you, pick an issue, homeless puppies, i come to you and i sent put something in the mail and tony, you know, look at all these starving puppies and i say it was ten thousand starving puppies and you know it, justin in manhattan or someth that’s a problem and you emotionally are expected to resupply with a cheque will. Now, next year i come back and i say, well, now, there’s ten thousand homeless puppies, this still ten thousand homeless puppies will again. What it keeps focusing on is the problem it does not focus on am i having an impact on alleviating such chelation so that’s, a real sort of short way of describing why that tends to be a ah sort of a circle, you know, like the snake eating its own tail. It really doesn’t get you where you need to pay. And you alluded to earlier the fact that we do still have deep seated, entrenched problems that we have been working on for generations like homelessness, entrenched poverty, etcetera, exactly right be a hunger of broken family, you name it, these problems, or of worldwide and so you might even get thes these appeals from any place on the globe. But it tends to in a lot of ways, i think lead to a sense of defeat, because, i mean, think about it if every single year, you get the same appeal from the same organization showing the same picture of the same a person in need. The question starts to it begs the question, well, what’s happening with my money, what we’ve been at it for so long, and we’re still seeing the same one problem. One gentleman i speak there speaking to some months ago, he runs a non-profit e program in ohio, and he said to me, well, do candy said, you know, we’ve been fighting this war on poverty for, you know, forty something years, and i’m not so sure we have anything to show for it. And part of the reason is that from the beginning, what we have to show for it was not the accent the accent was on making money available and making programs available. You’ve heard a thousand times there, the concept, the underserved community, right, which you could argue about whether they’re actually underserved enough that’s a different story. But the question is what it seems to lead to. It leads to the implication that if you make services available, things will be better. Well, that’s not necessarily true. Just making them available, zach. Will will result in the outcome that you want exactly, and for years social investors you know, traditionally called funders, we’re investing in making services available rather than investing in change, and if you’re investing in change, then there ought to be sameer marks of the change. The whole concept of moving your your your your head away from the idea of being a funder. What’s being an investor is one of the first the first steps what’s a fund interested in a funder is interested in the dispersement of funds in terms of the process, the paperwork who’s it going to what’s it being used for what’s an investor interest is an investor in investor wants a return let’s talk about some more of the language differences that you point out not so much differences, but the important language around outcomes measurement that takes up roughly the first third of the book or so gent generally outputs versus outcomes, outputs or what you do outcomes of what happens because of what you did okay? Example of an output and output is training class, and the outcome would be that somebody got a job by virtue of having been trained. And more importantly, kept the job for a reasonable amount of time when and this was this was rampant in the late sixties and seventies. Excuse me, but when thanks to largely the government we got into being counting and compliance, no organisations were measured onto in terms of how many fannies their head in the seats, how many training training class they help? Well, that was great, but then it turned out in some cases people we trained for jobs that no longer existed or the training was insufficient, or there really was no placement attached to it. So we had organizations claiming success because they’ve had x number of fannies in the seats or because they held so many trainings. Well, they gave us so many certificates, but the end of the day was anybody hyre did anybody did anybody’s life improved? Well, don’t ask me that question when i focused on that we’re focused on how many training on the output not come from the outcomes spring from the outputs. Yes, yes, you need the outputs in order to get the outcomes and they have to be the right outputs. But again, if that is only just your focus is there’s a saying that a colleague of mine, a colleague of mine who wrote a book, if well, you fundez activity that’s. Usually all you get? Yes. Okay. All right. Impact, impact flows from outcome. What? Tell us about it and that’s down the road that’s down the road. In other words, for example, let us say that what you were talking about was bringing possible water. And this is something i was engaged in a t united nations potable water, fresh water supplies to certain kinds of villages. I was pronouncing potable. Is that okay? Potable vote on a laudable somebody made a tomato, somebody from and why you were calling correct one of us. I have to. But i was so it’s possible that anyone when you were with the united nations so that’s a hyre i’m just tony martignetti non-profit radio it’s hyre hyre standing. But you had a situation where okay you’re you’re bringing fresh water. And now you could think of a host of reasons early on why you might want to do that. One of the more interesting ones to me was to alleviate the burden on the women and girls. In the village usually whose job it is to do nothing while david hold water one of the reasons why their educational opportunities were so so stunted was because, well, gee, somebody’s got to get the water and that’s the woman and children’s job. Or rather, a woman and girls job. Well, let us say that you bring it in and let us say that some girl does get to go to school. Well, perhaps if twenty years later when she’s an adult, she actually has a business and gets out of the out of the village, that might be an impact. But the problem with the focusing on impacts these long term impacts is very often the causal chain is extremely weak. The causal chain is broken and it’s kind of hard. Teo teo to take credit for some things. I mean, we’ve all heard the stories of the head start program that’s taking credit because thirty five years later, one of their graduates became the head of some, you know, ceo of some company. Well, you know, thanks, snusz because back in nineteen forty seven, he was with us in today’s end of a corporation. I don’t know. About that, but i honestly would say impacts agreed to have these are the kinds of things you see in mission statements and vision statements. The long term impacts, what organizations need to do is figure out how to translate those things into measurable, achievable, significant, meaningful outcomes. Okay? And shortly we’re gonna talk about the outcome statement and contrast it with the mission statement and talk about what the elements are and how to get to ah ah, eh, a proper and and viable outcome statement. So yeah, and just around impacts, you say in the book impacts or what we hoped for, outcomes are what we work for. We’ve talked about that means your outcomes or what you’re working toward the impact of the the longer term we really we talked about funder donorsearch sis investor. Anything else you want to say about the about? Maybe non-profits looking at themselves as invest, ese. Well, that’s, that’s a very good point. I mean, when someone gives you a gift. Christmas gift. Okay, now we’ve all had the relative who gives us something. And then every once a while checks are you using it? You? Have you been? Did you? Like the sweat in most people that give you a gift, they hope you like it, but they really don’t have any kind of control now. My grandmother used to give me cash, she would slip me cash in by hand like a handshake, and she would always say, spend it like you earned it. My grandmother never did that. You didn’t know i’m sorry, no migraine with a borrowed but no that’s, um, we’re not related even starting now, but the idea is when someone gives you a gift, really the in most cases, the string of scott, you know, the the very there, the influence they have over the use of that gift, et cetera. Well, the problem is when you think of yourself, if you’re a non-profit as a grantee of donor of a donation or giving, okay, the implication that the onus is on you to deliver something back to that to that donor to that investor is i like to use use the term is much less clear than if you see them as investors and you see yourself as an invested because right from the start from the basic language, what we’re making clear is that you owe them a return investments give returns exactly. And so the mindset shift is that i mentioned before the first one is moving from the concept of thunder to investor the second is moving from the concept that what we’re investing in is the provision of services opposed to we’re investing in change, and then what are those changes and how do you define them? And the third thing is that we’re going to be satisfied with an account of activity as opposed to actual evidence of results, performance and effectiveness. The’s a three crucial mindset shifts that the space has to eventually and will adopt, and the sooner non-profits get on this, the better off they’ll be. You quote stephen covey saying, it is incredibly easy to be very busy without being very effective. Well, we’ve always have seen those people who can, you know, go to the office in the busy all day, and at the end of the day, what have they actually accomplished? And the answer is, you know, not a heck of a lot and that’s, you know, that’s, the wife, i’m with robert pennant he’s, the author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Let’s, talk a little about the outcome statement versus the how does it contrast with the mission statement? The well, mission statements of very often pie in the sky and aspirational mean they ought to be yes, and an inspirational okay, okay, but the idea is that the idea that we’re going to solve a problem in our time we’re gonna end poverty, will end homeless. Is thies air the kinds of things that you very often see working their way into? Ah, emission statement or vision statement. The problem is that how do you then actually turn around and effectuated if you basically go to an investor and they said, what do you know what we’re gonna do? We’re gonna end and homelessness. Well, you’re probably not. So when you don’t, what do you could do? You come back and say i failed an outcome statement is based upon a couple of key characteristics that good outcomes have among those are all right. It’s. Meaningful it’s. Not a cosmetic change. It’s. Sustainable that’s. A very, very important one. Right? It’s achievable. All right, there’s, an old state. Everyone talks about the weather. No one does anything about it. Why? Because global warming aside, it’s. Tough to do anything about the weather. All right. But if you a couch your your goals in not slam dunks you want, they want them to be doable with a stretch. You? I mean, you clearly want to push yourself all right. But the idea is that you want it to be something that can be achieved in your lifetime on dh something that can be measurable. The sustainable part is particularly crucial. I think of my involvement. I’m a lifelong scout. Around fifty eight years old. I first joined the boy scouts when i was ten. I mean, eagle scout. Well, i never made it that i was in the order. The arrow you want? Ditigal oh, no, no, no it’s a different. But i have a son who was in the order of the arrow and he’s an eagle scout like vicarious thrills. But we i remember ah, project, where are we going to clean up a lot and throw this lot had been used as a dumping ground. The scouts came in and we weed whackers and rakes and tree pruners. And we turned it looks like a park when we’re done all right. And we congratulate ourselves. Up, up, up we all went home in that night’s peace. Somebody dumped a refrigerator. It wasn’t a sustainable achievement because we didn’t have the facility for either blocking it office, stopping people from dumping again. So the concept has to be again in terms of a good outcome, one of the characteristics and aki one is this concept of sustainability. But again, to go back to your question about the difference between a mission statement of vision statement and an outcome statement a lot of organizations have a tough time differentiating in the book i refer to ah, vision approach. You may recall the book in the book, i had a picture of some futuristic city, teo illustrate that my belief is that mission statement envision statements are both great things, a good ideas, they’re visionary, they belong up on the wall, but they don’t belong in terms of you every day action plan, they’re different from an action plan. It’s the difference be between having the long term goal of i want to speak? I want to be trimmed and having an actual diet that you’re that you’re following. All right? Um, you know, there are numerous examples we could have that we could we could point to okay, i’m realizing now, since we’re talking about since i’m talking about being an eagle scout, you know, i didn’t measure the the outcomes of my eagle scout project, which was teo. Make sure that address is street addresses were visible to emergency services in my little town of altum panned newjersey, which had maybe three thousand homes or so so we looked at every home and where there wasn’t a visible address from the street that a policeman or fireman or the ambulance could find could see it easily. We left a note in the in the mailbox and the note was signed by the police chief, the fire chief and the the head of the ambulance corps. But that’s just that’s just activity. I don’t know what the outcome’s were. I don’t know if more lives were saved. Police response times. We’re reduced fire response times are reduced. That would have been right. That would come into the out moment. And what? And if you had done the eagle project as an outcome, you know, an outcome based thing that was specifically the kinds of things that you would have wanted to look at. Now that was response time reduced. Yeah, you know, i don’t know anything is dramatic is where lives saved but certainly were response times reduced. You could even you could even have done it as looking at things like ups, you know? Did ups have fewer lost deliveries because they were brought to the wrong home. All right, i have thiss factual case up in albany way. Have to hold on your case. Feeling bad? About my eagle project from thirty five years ago, this is tony martignetti, tony martignetti non-profit radio. We have to take a break after the break. We’ll be tony’s. Take two for two minutes, and then i’ll return with robert penna. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com metoo dahna welcome back to the show, it’s time for tony’s take two two minutes at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. Roughly my block this week is if donors are investors, then they need a motley fool motley fool is an online investment advisory service actually recommends stocks, too, its members and my thinking is, and this is sort of related to what robert and i are talking about if donors are in fact investors to non-profits then are we going to go beyond just ratings that charity navigator and guidestar offer into recommendations, overt, explicit recommendations, invest in this non-profit this other non-profit is not a good recommendation, not abi, maybe it’s ah, hold or maybe it’s even a cell? Um, there are organisations like this that do services like that they’re a couple do them mostly for the wealthy rockefeller philanthropy advisors is probably the best known, but i think if if if donors are becoming investors than we’re going to see this trickle down, too, the average moderate income, modest income investor in non-profits and then, you know, with the with the comparisons across non-profits b bye sector like and with that sector be charitable mission would it be geographic, so that may be the best healthcare investment, as as an investor is a certain hospital or or ah non-profit clinic in aa county or in a town or in the city? Um what it would have come to the point where it’s, you know, your investment in the indianapolis dance company is most likely to pay off or more likely to pay off, and what does pay off mean than some other investment in some other indianapolis arts group or or dance company? So i think related to what robert and i are talking about and just interesting, you know, um, non-profit investment advisory services, you know, are we headed there? There’s more about that on my block at mpg a dv dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, september second, bringing robert penna welcoming him back now. We were just before the break, talking about the outcome statement hyre should be meaningful, achievable, sustainable on dh the book goes into a little more detail, even oh, and i’d like to because i’d like to help our listeners achieve an outcome statement. Ah, you say that should be bound in time and number. The outcome stable? What does that mean? Well, what it basically means is rather than saying, we’re going to change the world, it’s, that we’re going to specifically a change ah, certain measurable of facet of characteristic of someone for a certain number of people within a certain given period of time. So the idea said, we’re going to achieve x for why number of people within two months, three months, one year, whatever it may be so that the idea is that first off it’s it’s tethered to ah, a certain number of people that you’re going teo achieve this for, and also a certain specific times. So that, for example, the investor knows when the payoff comes, let me give you another reason why this is crucial if you were if you read the book as they know you know you did, you probably came across the work capacity ten thousand times capacity. You don’t have to read the book to hear about capacity over the building in no, no, no, but over here, this is a very, very specific use. If you haven’t outcomes approach, it automatically begs the capacity question, because if you are clear about what it is you want to achieve from that flows what it is. You need to get there, which then challenges you to say, do i have that capacity most non-profits and i hate to use generalizations. But i think in this case, it’s true. Most on traffic. It’s a most people who are aware of the non-profit space when you talk about capacity building the first thing they will think about his dollar signs. All right, we’re having a capacity capacity raising effort. What? It’s? A fund raiser. True capacity, however, has three levels. All right. The first one is structural capacity. How is the organization run? How is it managed? What’s the relationship between the board and the executive leadership what’s the quality of the training of the staff, et cetera. The second is what i call functional capacity. Basically, what that means is if you go, you do have the tools to do what you say you’re going to do. If you were an education organization, then you need educators. You need a curriculum. If you’re counseling organization unique counselors and you need some sort of models, they’re all your inputs. Yes, exactly. The third one and perhaps the most important one is the implementation capacity the’s are the thousand and one little things that not just non-profits but anybody trips up, trips over when it comes to actually doing a job, it could be, for example, twenty you or i are going to put a curtain rod, and it turns out we don’t have a level well, if we don’t have a level, how we’re gonna make sure the curtain rod is level that’s an implementation capacity issue when you talk about a non-profit it could be everything from the from the requirement to provide transportation so the clients could actually get there to something like intake if you want. If you’re goingto have seventy five people, let us say graduate from your program will do you have the capacity for a new intake to actually process those seventy five people? So they’re not standing on line three hours and losing interest and wandering away. Who’s gonna answer the phones let’s say you have a a an outreach effort going on, and you have a training program and you put the word out on the street, but then it turns out that your non-profit is really run all by part timers and most of the time, if anybody calls to get information, they’re either going to get just a phone that rings or they’re going to get an answering machine that’s a capacity questions. So if you’re doing this correctly, it really forces you to look at a number of things, including the capacity that you have to actually achieve the goals. If you don’t have it, then you have to upgrade the capacity or perhaps scale back the goals and flowing from this quantification of of what you want outcomes to be is measurable because they become measurable when you’ve quantified and bound in-kind time number so we can, in fact, measure things that are i have previously been so just vague sort of objectives. Let me give you a classic example on this may sound like a bit of a stretch to euro to your readers, but you and i being roughly the same age, i think you have. You have readers we have listen that’s, right, our reader listeners, because they’re all gonna buy your book, my readers just the non-profit outcomes toolbox published by wile e you recall when when when we were kids, we had things like, you know, lincoln logs and directors were there and they were even wood and the logs we’re made for, right? Okay, this is going to sound like a bit of a weird one, but compare think back, compare when you’re building one of those things, too. When your mother built a big cake, your mother baked the cakes you took all the ingredients she pour them in a bowl should put him in a pan, she put in the oven and she lost at that point total control of what was going on. No one’s going to know whether cake was good or bad until after it was done. It came out. It was cool when you tasted it, and if something were on, there was nothing you could do thinking back, however, to the example, the lincoln logs with the tinker toys, the directors that we had a guide. The guide showed a step by step where we should be at every point in time, if at any point in time, what we’re building didn’t look like the picture we could stop, we could go back and we could fix it. That’s one of the differences of working with outcomes as opposed to not when you don’t work without comes we have to be the only position you’re in is to hope for a good end result, but you can’t control it because you have no idea really what’s going on with the variables. If you’re tracking using an outcome system all right, and it is bound in time and is bound in number, and you do know that by a certain date x number of people should be at stage four if they’re not there, then you still have time to fix it if you have no clue where they’re supposed to be, or what we could do was hope for good results of the end, and if you don’t get it, well, then we did, you say, sorry, better looking altum you don’t know that as a child actually had an easy bake oven, i didn’t have the lincoln logs. My brother had the lincoln logs, i had the easy bake oven dahna they should also be your outcome statement verifiable, and this is all really, i’m i’m breaking it down the way you do in the book, but just flows naturally from the way you’re describing it. We have to be able to verify where we are time versus goal on dh and reassess, say more about verifiability. Verifiability basically means that some third party can look at it without spending a ton of money, because again, and maybe this is that not to take anything away from professional evaluators, but evaluation cost money and professional evaluators in professional valuation services. I mean, these people are very good at what they do, but the point is that hopefully what you’re doing is verifiable in the easier way i mean, is there’s an old saying, you know, chicken soup is good for the soul? Well, it could be, but it’s, hard to tell. You know, what you want to do is you want to stick to things that have some fairly easily discernible evidence that can be seen and that’s what it means, my verifiable it means staying away from outcomes to talkabout, as you said before, well, somebody feels better about themselves. In their place in the universe, well, that’s a little bit nebulous. And so i would recommend that if you’re looking to create a good outcome statement, a good outcome for you program that you stay away from the cosmic, the psychic, the overly emotional and definitely the extraterrestrial. Okay, so first step to create a proper outcome statement is what decide what you want to be different at the end of this program. So you’re definitely looking forward toward gin with the end in mind begins, and you say that the book begin with the engine dart with what do you want to be different about a certain situation or a certain set of conditions as a result of your program, start there. If you can’t define, then maybe should rethink what you’re doing and in determining that you need to be bound in number and time and those miserable those of the descriptions as you working back, which is yes, but the idea is what you want to start with is a change you want to start with being able to define a change. We’ve kind of alluded to this, but the basic basic idea with the changes what’s called the backs measures change in the behavior, attitude, condition, knowledge or status of those you seek to serve. So you start with the change in their behavior, their attitude, that condition and knowledge or the status and it doesn’t have to be a person. It could be a forest that could be it could could be a watershed. The status goes from being threatened to not tear being safe to being protected. But the idea is you start with the change and defining if you can’t define it, then my suggestion is you start to rethink a lot of organizations. Start with the problem. And then the next question is, what do we do? Well, what do we do? That’s that’s. The wrong place to start the place to start is first off. What changes do we want to bring about? Secondly, what resource is will it take to do that? Thirdly, you know what actions or programs will it take to effectuate that it’s? A total reverse of the usual way of approaching most of these issues. That’s. Ah, sort of a summary of of developing your own outcome statement. And there’s, obviously a lot more detail. In the book again, the book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox, we have just about a minute before the break, how do we start to apply and outcomes analysis? You have a lot of tools in the book, but how do we get there? Well, first off an easy thing by the book, but beyond that, there are any number of very, very thoughtful people who have created some of these tools that are out there. The problem is that most non-profits i don’t know about them. Everybody, for example, is heard of the logic model. Well, what they don’t understand what the logic model was originally intended to do was to intended to be a supposed to the way a lot of people are suggesting it be used. Today there are alternatives to this, and the book is one way of finding out about them and it reinventing the wheel is not necessary. These wheels have already being been invented. The question is knowing which ones work for you. And that was the whole concept behind the toolbox approach to the book that perhaps we can talk about after the break. Okay, way are going to take a break. If you’ve not heard of the logic model, then you’re with me. So i’m going to ask robert after the break to just briefly talk about that. And then we’re going to talk about some of tools and lessons you can learn from the for-profit from the corporate sector in outcomes measurement. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in oppcoll this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing effort. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile market. Their motto is we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com told you. If you have big ideas and an average budget to tony martignetti non-profit radio, we dio. I’m jonah helper, nari team in co founders of next-gen charity metoo welcome back to the show. Our last segment. Let’s define the logic model because maybe i know it by a different name, robert. But you may know that what is that? That is actually the name of it. If the logic model is a away that non-profits have had for some years now ah planned it’s one of the tools that they’ve used for planning how to get to the outcomes from the starting point. But the logic model became very well known when kellogg adopted at the kellogg foundation. Same is the cereal people, the telephone, isha and united way of america adopted. And in both of those cases they kind of put the word out amongst their there either case of kellogg, that grantees, and in the case of the united way of america, the local affiliates, that this was one of the earliest outcomes frameworks that you could potentially use not doing under do plug. But in my previous book, outcome frameworks, that was one of the things we talked about, because the idea was there were these various models, and how do they compare one to the other? And what were the pluses and minuses of all of them that had never been done? Before, which is why i wrote that previous book, but the logic model truly was meant as a is a graphic illustration of cause and effect within a program that this input will lead to that which will lead to the third, which will lead to the fourth and hopefully get you two the the the the end point that you that you desire, the problem is it was never actually designed to be a management or tracking tool. And when organizations and there are a lot of people, very thoughtful people who do use it for this personally, i think it’s cumbersome and what you wind up with since the whole design was a flow chart, very often you wind up with all of these various lines at the doubling back on each other. So some of someone i know, okay, so we’re past that now that we’re in the outcomes toolbox, right? And why did you choose the toolbox metaphor? Kinds of the toolbox was very simple. Let’s go back to that curtain, rod, you and i, we’re going to put a human. You don’t go back to my eagle scout. No, no, i’m still sinjin, i’m going to go back to the curtain rod, you’re not going to put up a few minutes ago without the level. Let’s say you’re putting up the the curtain, ron and all the tools you had. We were craftsman. And at one point you needed that level that i mentioned and you say, bob, give me a level. Well, if the level i gave you was a stanley, would you refuse to use it? Because it was a question like all the other tools? Probably not. You would. You would use the tools at hand. Okay. In the non-profit space, most of these frameworks, our proprietary, this one belongs to ran. That one belongs to the rental of ill institute, the third one’s associated with this with this person or this institution. As a result, what traditionally happened was, let us say, a representative of that organization or the consultant came in and they would wind up basically saying to non-profits my model b a, b, c or d it’s the bass o matic of outcome frameworks. It slices it, dices it chops, it walks the dog. It does everything. The problem is none of them do everything. All of them. Do something, all of them do several somethings some of them do some things very well, but none of them do everything well. And so what we want of doing was inadvertently offering them the space eighty pence, eighty percent solutions to one hundred percent problems. It’s telling people, for example, that the logic model was the be all and end all was one such example. My concept is, and the reason is called the toolbox in the book, i do not care about the authorship, the ownership, the providence or anything else about any of these tools. If it works, i want you to use it, and i’m not going to tell you not to use it because you’re not using the other pieces of the same sex that’s the concept truly a toolbox reaching grab what works for you, and if you’re not oriented to its tools, think about it as a kitchen, you know, again, you know, if you have a, you know, one brand of, you know, say, blender and another brand of you’re not going to not use them to the same meal because the different brands you’re going to use, what you need now. You’re in my space because now i mean that’s for my easy bake oven days. Okay, right. The kitchenware. That’s. What if that’s why i went there? I can see that you is resonating with much more comfortable with spatulas than i am. Phillips head screwdriver. First time i used when i had to go to the emergency room that’s because you were trying to scrape a pan with so the book has ah, lot of model of of these tools talks about dahna maybe a dozen or so. Some of the simplest ones are you get what you measure results based accountability, even one from mckinsey and company capacity assessment tool. But maybe not those necessary. But a lot of the tools in the toolbox do emanate from corporate outcomes. Measurements. Some of the some of the latter ones. A lot of, you know, there’s. A lot of what are what? Why is it translatable? I mean, from for-profit tuna for-profit, you know, a lot of times not-for-profits community is worried about things that come from corporations. Yeah. Peter drucker. Except for money. Not a cz investigators, investors, but but now there is that fear. What were some of the less peter drucker made the comment that non-profit should be run more like business, and everyone thought that, you know, he was he was the prostate, and he was ah, heretical and my god, you know, corporations a big, nasty things, and after all we care, you know, we have a non-profit sector. The truth of the matter is that no one is more interested in outcomes in the corporate world. Now they tend to call the court that their outcomes profitability, market share, etcetera. But the idea is they’ve been leading the way literally since, you know henry ford was putting model tease out of on assembly line, there are tools, for example, like six sigma. There are tools that i said heaven saying, sabat against there are tools like six, six, six sigma six sigma. The question is what? The hell’s, a sigma and where the six of them that’s explained in the book it’s basically a measure of quality. All right, six sigma focuses on how many failure rates are there per million opportunities to fail. I mean, you don’t really have to get into that, but the concept is it has some key insight something for example, like t q m t q jargon jail. Oh, ok, you know, take your total quality, man. You know, i didn’t know what i mean, that’s what it cost him, and i’m not going to lock myself in jargon jail. What it means is critical to quality most non-profits when they’re designing a programme, do not ask this question, as the corporate world does with corporal world is launching and launching an effort, one of the first things under six sigma they would do is say, what is the most critical part of this that we need to have? If a non-profit were to adopt that kind of that kind of concept and that kind of analysis, it could go very, very far towards helping them focus on the most important parts of a program, the key things that they absolutely must have. But this is a perspective that is very often for into the non-profit space, but very, very built into the corporate space, particularly using something like six sigma, i see a future masters degree in non-profit outcomes engineering yet it’s perfect, exactly there’ll be exactly well, but when we have maybe a moment so we can talk about something called serve qual, which they’re using pizza hut, if you imagine, think a tool from pizza being used in the non-profit space now that’s that’s the suggestion that we talked about, regrettably, we’re out of moments right of moments. Well, the lesson is don’t be fearful of what comes from the non-profit from from the for-profit sector because these are all important, easily quantified things that corporations are focusing on, like earnings per share in a quarter, right? Exactly. And how do you get there? What do you need to do to get there? The book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox, a complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results published by wally wiley and sons, you’ll find robert penn is blogged at outcomes, outcomes toolbox, dot com robert, thank you very much for being on the show. A pleasure. Thank you very much for having it was a pleasure and enjoyed immensely. Thank you. Next week, september eleven giving what of the trends been? What can we expect going forward around that? My guest will be christine cronin, president of n y charities dot or ge? You can always keep up with what’s coming. Up on the show, sign up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page there’s a link to sign up and get those weekly alerts while you’re there, click like become a fan of the show, you can listen live or archive you’ve been listening live. You can listen archive on itunes subscribe and listen anytime, of course. 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