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Nonprofit Radio for March 15, 2021: Relationships With Funders

My Guest:

Shavonn Richardson: Relationships With Funders
There’s too much transactionalism and not enough relationship building between nonprofits and their institutional funders. Are you a transactionalist? Do you want to walk toward the light of relationship fundraising with foundations and corporations? Shavonn Richardson can show you the path. She’s CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting.


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[00:00:13.94] spk_3:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big

[00:01:56.24] spk_1:
non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of African trypanosomiasis if you bit me with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Relationships with Funders. There’s too Much Transactional is, um, and not enough relationship building between nonprofits and their institutional funders. Are you a transactional ist? Do you want to walk toward the light of relationship fundraising with foundations and corporations? She, even Richardson, can help you. She’s CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting, tony State, too. Podcast pleasantries, reduction. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. I’m very pleased to welcome shaven Richardson to the show. She is founder and CEO of Think and Ink Grant Consulting. She worked as a program manager for a corporate funder, deploying over a million dollars in grants and sponsorships to Atlanta nonprofits. Now she gets grants for her clients and has successfully leveraged over $25 million in funding. She’s a Forbes thought leader and serves on the board of directors for the Grant Professionals Association. She’s at Shavon Richardson and her company is at Think and Inc grants dot com. Welcome to nonprofit radio Shabaan.

[00:01:57.78] spk_0:
Thank you, Tony. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:02.04] spk_1:
Absolutely. It’s a pleasure. Do you know the shaven Richardson who stole your name from Twitter before you before? I

[00:02:08.81] spk_0:
wish I could hunt her down and get her her Twitter tag. Yeah, that would be more convenient for sure. You

[00:02:17.04] spk_1:
haven’t. You have not threatened

[00:02:18.09] spk_0:
her? Not yet. Not yet. But if you find her, let me know.

[00:02:21.14] spk_1:
Okay, well, we know how to find her on Twitter. She’s Ron Rich. Uh, we don’t like her Shiban Richeson

[00:02:28.70] spk_0:

[00:02:36.64] spk_1:
Twitter. So you have the, uh, background of being a program manager. You are concerned that and I obviously you saw this as a program manager that folks are are to transactional, right? They submit these blind applications they don’t have relationships with with program managers like you. You wanna like you used to be. You want to turn that around?

[00:03:20.44] spk_0:
Yes. Yes, yes. I was a program manager at Bank of America Foundation. Oversaw a lot of the, um, grants that came in and sponsorships that would come in. Reviewed applications, build relationships with non profits. And I think my biggest pet peeve was, um, someone committee what we call a cold application without any outreach to our office or any connection or we knew anything about.

[00:03:25.44] spk_1:
So even with Bank of America, we can we can have we can. We can establish a relationship with a person at Bank of America

[00:03:32.19] spk_0:
Foundation that it is doable.

[00:03:36.64] spk_1:
Okay, all right. And I presume the folks with the relationships have a better shot of getting funded, right?

[00:04:11.94] spk_0:
Why are they overall, just in general? We’re talking about any funder, right, whether it’s a corporate funder or a family foundation or any sort of private foundation, the more they know about you and more about your nonprofit organization and more about the really valuable work that you’re doing. Um, they’re more. They’re in a position to make a determination whether they want to invest in support, that the work you do. So it’s all a part of getting to know you. You’re getting to know them and making sure that there’s an appropriate match,

[00:04:40.84] spk_1:
because the program manager is basically an advocate for your grant application, right? If they believe in it, then they have to bring it up. Obviously, it’s certainly a Bank of America, you know, to bring things up to folks, folks above to to get approved funding. So, like, aren’t you? Isn’t the program manager basically the advocate for the grants that that, uh, he or she believes in?

[00:05:25.34] spk_0:
Yeah, well, you know, they can be an advocate, right? It just really depends, because every fund is different, right? So, you know, some funders will have the program managers make the decision as a group as to who gets funding. Sometimes the program managers are in a position to kind of gather all the applicants, maybe writing a summary, uh, what the program is, and then maybe boarding it to a board of directors or a committee or a group of non profit leaders that are responsible for actually making the decision. But either way, a program manager is involved in the process. Um, and the more they know about you, the more that you know, there might be some opportunities for them to be an advocate if it’s appropriate.

[00:05:41.74] spk_1:
Okay, So if we’re thinking about, uh, let’s start with the corporate since you were on the corporate side and then we’ll talk. We’ll talk about foundations to, um, But let’s start with the corporate side. How do you? Well, I guess it starts with research. You’ve got to make sure you’re talking to a corporation that funds the type of work that you do in the area where you are, right. So it starts with good research,

[00:06:58.04] spk_0:
especially research, you know, especially large funders, large corporate funders to get a lot of emails and calls from everyone right about different things. But if you just start with going to their website and learning more about, they’re giving priorities. Every corporate funder has given priorities or their focus areas on their website. You want to make sure that the work that you’re doing is in line with one of those focus areas so that you’re not reaching out to a funny to say, Hey, do you support this really cool thing that I’m doing when it’s already very clear on their website that they do or they don’t all the times they’ll have, like a little survey of yes or no questions to see if you’ll be eligible to apply, so that’s that’s the first step. The next step would be kind of, um, the outreach, right? Some will say, Hey, we don’t have the capacity entertained phone calls. If you want to engage with us, please send in a l O I, which in our industry is considered a letter of intent or a lot of interest. So that’s just a quick summary of your program for them to get to know you. Others have just a general inbox, um, email that you’ll find on their website. If you have questions, you know, here is a way to contact us. So those are kind of like the first ways to start connecting with a potential corporate funder and build a relationship.

[00:07:11.57] spk_1:
If there one that’s willing to take calls, you, uh, you pick up the phone and what do you say?

[00:07:18.84] spk_0:
Well, I say they were at least I can say, at least for our clients that it’s a very strategic conversation we actually plan. Yeah, just don’t pick up the phone calls. They take calls school. I mean,

[00:07:33.94] spk_1:
let me chat them up about my work. Okay, So what do you think What are you planning before you before you do pick up the phone?

[00:09:00.44] spk_0:
Yeah. So if everybody gets on the phone, it’s always good to have at least one or two people that you’ve connected with, um, as far as their contact information. Right? Because folks leave, folks come and go all the time. So the one person that you’ve connected with, if they leave, then you’re you’re kind of out of luck. So it’s good to have, you know, to contact, right? Um, if you reach out via telephone to arrange some time on someone’s calendar or via email, I would always say limited to 15 minutes, right? They’re busy people. And in that 15 minutes, you have a clear understanding of what you’re talking about. Oftentimes with our clients, these unscripted conversations that we plan, we’re not scripted word for word. But we do have a strategy as far as what we want our clients to share during those conversations and really stick to it. Um, in the end, leave a few minutes for any questions. Um, always end with a like a follow up like, Hey, you know, how can we stay connected? Is it okay if I, you know, seeing you a letter from a person we just recently helped, or how can we stay connected and and And that’s a start, right? And to keep it a warm connection, right? Figure out ways to keep them engaged, to always keep my breast of the work that you’re doing. And I think the key point is to do this regardless. If there is a pending grant deadline, do this when there’s no grant deadline, right?

[00:09:28.64] spk_1:
I was gonna ask about that. Okay, So there’s no, there’s no even grant deadline yet. You’re just opening the channel before so that you’ve you’ve made the point in a couple of your blog posts or videos that, you know, don’t wait until two weeks before a deadline. You try to open a conversation, you’ve you set yourself up like maybe not definitely for failure, but you’ve You’ve made it a lot harder on everybody. So So this is before there isn’t even a day before There’s even a deadline posted.

[00:09:48.24] spk_0:
Exactly. And you know, sometimes if you do this work without a deadline, sometimes when a grant does come down the pipeline, don’t reach out to you and they’ll say, Hey, you know, we’ve been talking for the last six months. I think this is a good opportunity for you. Check it out and they’ll just forge you an opportunity. And that’s that’s even better, right? Because that means that your top of mind for them,

[00:11:03.44] spk_1:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications. You know, the relationships that turn to has. These are examples. Examples. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CBS Market Watch, The Chronicle of Philanthropy. Those are the biggest. They have others, and they’ll make others others where you belong, where they can help place you so that when there’s a news hook that you belong in, they know who to call. They’ve got the relationships relationships. That’s how you get yourself positioned in the media that you want when you want it there at turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to relationships with funders. You see the symmetry here you see, you see how it’s all connected with the relationship theme transcending. It’s resplendent with relationships. Unbelievable. So in that phone call or in these series of calls, as you’re keeping in touch with them, you’re trying to show them how your work aligns with their funding priorities. I mean, especially in that first. Like you said, a 15 minute phone call. You’re trying to hook them into what you do and how it overlaps with what they fund, right?

[00:11:19.94] spk_0:
Exactly. And I think when people go wrong is that they just they’re just so excited just to share all the work that they’re doing and they make it about them. But you know, these social, corporate friends, this is not altruistic. Giving is like it’s a reason why they’re investing in you is because you’re aligning with what they need to do. So always to keep the funder in mind and making sure that you are aligning to what they are looking for.

[00:11:46.94] spk_1:
And then over time, as you’re keeping in touch, is it okay to email them when you maybe have a big success? Or I don’t know, uh, email them announcements. Maybe about a couple of new board members. I mean, is that kind of stuff appropriate? Is that is that a good way to be keeping in touch with them?

[00:12:00.54] spk_0:
Exactly. Right. Exactly right. Press releases, uh, update new things that are happening. That’s always good to kind of keep them in loop. I discourage people from including them on your mass newsletter distribution list. Um, that’s a big no, no, definitely any personalized communication. If you want to extract information from your newsletter, that’s fine. But let it be personal. Let it be from the executive director. Uh, I know I personally have small when I’ve received stuff in the mail. Like I’ve received pictures of those that we’ve helped with a little handwritten letter in crayon. Hi. Thank you so much for the grant. That’s a tear jerker. And a lot of times I would put them up in my office. I was just going to say

[00:12:43.05] spk_1:
that. I bet you put them up

[00:12:44.01] spk_0:
in your office. I put my office

[00:12:45.78] spk_1:
crayon letters from, like, a seven or eight year old.

[00:12:50.24] spk_0:
Yeah, put them up in my office and, you know, there you go There on my mind. 3 65. So, um, getting something in the mail, you know who gets stuff in the mail anymore, right? So it would stand out. I’d say, Wow, it’s a package on my desk. What is that? And it really made a difference. So anyway, that you can engage them, whether mailing something or be email not too often, but when you really feel like there’s something significant that you’d like to share,

[00:13:50.94] spk_1:
so it’s not really that uncommon. I mean, it’s not really that different than keeping in touch with individual donors, you know? All right, So you’re saying you know, you wouldn’t include them on your in your e newsletter mail list? Okay, that’s that’s an exception. But you know, your major donors, like you’re inside individual donors, you keep in touch with them. You build relationships with them for when the time comes that you are going to be asking them. I mean, these are all strategic relationships. They’re not like you said. They’re not altruistic. Uh, you know, there’s a purpose behind these, but it sounds parallel to individual relationship building.

[00:13:54.74] spk_0:
It is okay. It is very parallel, and it’s so odd. I know I know a lot of fun reasons that are like, really good at engaging with individual donors, and I tell them like that that’s just not my jam. And then I think about it like, but there’s really a lot of like you could really apply to say, strategy. So that doesn’t mean that, uh, you know, it’s it’s necessarily a difficult thing. It’s just you just have to do it right? Like how it with a strategy and apply it

[00:15:11.54] spk_1:
because even Bank of America is made of people. Yeah, right. I mean, you’re you’re a person. You have feelings you like to be kept in touch with. You know, you like to get warm, soft, fuzzy, You know, things in the mail, like you’re saying so. You know, even Bank of America is made of people, so connect, connect on a personal level. All right. All right. So then let’s just follow that that relationship through a little bit. So now let’s suppose there is a grant application deadline Now it’s I don’t know how. How far in advance do we find out about these things? Like, three months or six months? Random varies. Okay. All right. So you find out now there’s an application. Three months, three months. You’ve got three months, but you’ve got a relationship with the with the company. Um, what do you do? You pick up the phone and say, Well, you know, can I apply or do you You just apply or you can leverage. How do you leverage your relationship?

[00:15:14.20] spk_0:
You pick up the phone, you send an email. Hi, Sally. We just saw that you guys have in our p available or a great opportunity available. And it’s due in June. Whatever. Whatever. We’re definitely interested in applying. This is the program that we’re looking for funding for. What do you think? Do you think this would be a good fit? Thank you so much for your time. I know your time is super, super precious, and you’re super busy. But thank you for your time. And any insight that you can provide will be very helpful.

[00:16:06.54] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um and then you go ahead. I mean, you got to follow. You gotta follow all the details. You make the point somewhere that if it says font size 12 and you do font size 11.5, you’re putting yourself at risk. Exactly. Okay. And then your work, of course, is preparing. You know, you gotta get budgets and referrals, and you gotta You gotta follow the follow all the guidelines.

[00:16:28.04] spk_0:
Yeah, well, a lot of our work, we’re unique at thinking and great consulting because we cover all aspects of great seeking from beginning to end. Uh, we do the nonprofit consulting to strengthen your organization, so you submit a strong proposal. We do, the research will go and find a good opportunities Will do the actual writing what you’re referring to. And we actually do the evaluation support. So we’ll evaluate the program. Um, at the end of the program, a lot of nonprofit leaders have to form four different relationships just to get all of that done. Um, but our team actually has people on staff to do all of those things, So we make it really easy for nonprofit leaders.

[00:16:52.04] spk_1:
We were talking about grants, grant application, But how do how does it vary if it’s if it’s sponsorship,

[00:18:04.34] spk_0:
uh, sponsorships? It’s And it’s weird because it’s changing with sponsorships. Before, It used to be just a marketing spin, right? It was awareness, and I’m talking about corporate funders. It was just bringing awareness to a brand, right, Um and it was tied to kind of like, you know how many people are going to see us and you know, the quality of the target market that we’re engaging and all that and I find that, like, sponsorships are getting more like grants now, like they want impact. They want, um, outcomes and objectives and all of that. So they’re kind of like a hybrid, so to say. But grants are definitely just, um, very structured. Just the classic K. You know, what is your mission? What is your program? What is your budget? What you’re hoping to achieve? How are you going to measure success? The application for a sponsorship, I would say, would most likely and again these lines are blurring, not be as intensive, although they do vary by thunder. Um, but, um, yeah, so I would say that they, for the most part not as intensive. But I find them getting a little more intense as far as asking very similar related questions.

[00:18:17.34] spk_1:
Are you seeing a lot of companies that want employee engagement as a part of sponsorship agreements?

[00:19:12.94] spk_0:
Absolutely. So the employee engagement pieces key and what that looks like is having employees opportunities for employees to come out and volunteer with a non profit organization. Or sometimes it’s the exact opposite. There’s some corporate funders that won’t even give to your nonprofit if it isn’t recommended by an employee or former employee is not, you know, um, active on the board or volunteering, or that they will see kind of employee recommendations before they give or give a preference. Or sometimes they’ll even be a question. They’re like, Do you have some of our employees that are engaging with your nonprofit like, What is their role? And a lot of those questions are optional, but some, um, won’t even give unless it’s like referred to employees. So employing instrument is key. And I think a lot of nonprofits overlooked at because that is something that corporate funders value. But sometimes nonprofits don’t always have the capacity to engage

[00:19:46.34] spk_1:
right, You know, if it’s a sizable company, I mean, they want maybe hundreds of employees engaging in a volunteer capacity or like I’ve heard of, you know, maybe stuffing backpacks or, uh, if it’s, uh, it’s a soup kitchen or something, you know, then then there’s ability for cooking and serving and an administrative work as well. But it could be like you’re saying. I mean, it could be a capacity thing like you just you may not have the capacity to manage the number of employees that they want to have volunteering.

[00:19:56.84] spk_0:
Exactly, because, I mean, you need a volunteer manager. You need to you know, it has to be a good experience for the corporate sponsor.

[00:20:28.84] spk_1:
All right, So you you got to manage capacity to think about what’s appropriate. But on the other hand, you know, it could be a small It might be a small local company where, you know, maybe they just have, like, 20 employees, and they want to send half of them, you know, once a month to spend five hours or something. So maybe you can Maybe you can accommodate 10 employees for five hours twice a month. Okay. Think about. All right. Um, what do you What do you say you mentioned the l. A y. The letter of inquiry or interest? What do you What are you saying in an l O I

[00:21:37.64] spk_0:
so L o I, um some some funders will give specific instructions on how to respond. It’s almost like a mini grant, right? Um, others are just kind of open ended. Like, hey, just send us an l o I. And so for the open ended alloys, usually it’s just a brief summary of your organization when I say brief, I mean brief. It is not. A whole historical layout of your organization is very brief just to give them some contacts for you to start talking about your actual program. So once you give a brief overview of your organization, give a brief overview of the project very succinctly and talk about how your project can potentially in line with a lot of the great work that, um, the funder is doing. Depending on who the front er is. You know, you may want to end it with, you know something to to make you stand out or really aligned with what the fund is looking for. But in essence, that is what l. Y looks like.

[00:23:39.04] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s Take two podcast pleasantries. I’m enjoying sending the podcast pleasantries, which at times have been podcast pleasantries. But they’re not today. These are the ones that have survived the pleasantries because, you know, it makes me nostalgic for the studio days when there were live listener love, affiliate affections and podcast pleasantries. Yes, the Studio days with Sam the podcast pleasantries are the only ones that survived. Uh, the other audiences, uh, Well, I cast off. It’s not that they not that they departed. I cast them off the podcast pleasantries. And I mean the affiliate affections and the live listener love in that order. So I’m I took the initiative. And what remains is our biggest audience. The podcast audience. You? Yes. You listening right this minute. I’m sending pleasantries to you. I’m grateful you’re a listener. How much plainer can I make it? And I don’t know. Yeah, I’m enjoying sending these podcasts pleasantries. They may end. I’m not sure. I’m not sure when the podcast pleasantries will end. Let’s just Let’s just go with it. See how it feels. Weak, Too weak. I think that’s the the best strategy not to make any commitments, long term or otherwise. Pleasantries to you, our podcast, listeners. Thanks for being with me. That is. Tony, take two. We’ve got Boo Koo, but loads more time for relationships with funders with shaven Richardson. Let’s go back to where you You are submitted your grant application. Now you’re waiting. Mhm. Mm. Can you leverage your relationship that you that you have with the with the funders to ask? How was it received? How does it. Look, What am I? What are our chances Look like, What can you do after you’ve submitted the application? Hopefully by the deadline. If you didn’t make it by the deadline, you’re

[00:24:31.74] spk_0:
out, right? Yeah, exactly. They hold fast to the deadline. I would say. I mean, this is very a really difficult question to answer, because while an application is being reviewed, you don’t want the appearance that you’re trying to sway a prog program. Managers mind or influence it while it’s pending. So oftentimes, um, if you check in, they won’t respond because they’ll say we’ll get back to you after X y z deadline. And that’s it. So for some, it’s it’s sitting. Wait, Um, if you’re fortunate to have some type of in and get some insight, then that that that’s just pure fortune because you definitely want to have the appearance that you’re trying to influence or get a ahead while they’re in the process of reviewing applications.

[00:24:45.92] spk_1:
Okay, so the decision is supposed to be made based strictly on the application

[00:25:14.14] spk_0:
at that point. Yeah, because, you know, it’s it’s a competitive thing, right? So, you know, you can ask all the questions you want prior to submitting, right? Build all the relationships you want. Um, once that deadline hits, they have all the applications in, um, they’re in the process of reviewing the applications, so you almost have to allow that to go. But if you do find someone that says, Hey, I was in the room and it gave great feedback or with the face to it, like that’s just that’s just a blessing, because that that definitely doesn’t happen.

[00:25:45.74] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. So don’t don’t don’t overreach like then you’re then you’re taking advantage of the relationship, and that’s obviously a negative. Okay, um but it sounds like you would encourage folks to to definitely be in touch during the application process while you’re if you’re not sure about what, How to answer a question or, you know, as you’re preparing the application, it’s it’s fine to be in touch,

[00:26:20.74] spk_0:
of course, and I would even take it a step further. I would even say, Don’t submit an application if you have not had some type of outreach or connection with someone in the office. I mean, really like like we call it submitting a cold app, just submitting it blind you’ve never had a conversation with anyone in the office, there’s no connection. The most likely look at you and they say, Well, who is this person? All right, Well, maybe we want to prove it now because we need to get to know them better. Maybe they will reapply, and we’ll consider it then. So I would definitely say before you even think about submitting an application to have some type of connection, some type of outreach with the thunder. First,

[00:26:38.04] spk_1:
let’s switch to the the private foundation side. Is it very different relationship

[00:27:59.94] spk_0:
wise? I think it’s the same relationship wise. I think access and capacity is different. Uh, there’s some foundations that have, um, our all volunteer led. They don’t have paid staff, right, So you may not be able to get someone on the phone to talk to. They may have board meetings once a quarter, Um, and you just have to submit and wait till they meet, right? And so the capacity is limited, But then you have other foundations that are very, very friendly and very open to talking to people and encourage the outreach and have the time and the resources available so It depends on capacity. I know that covid and working from home change things a little bit as far as capacity. Uh, you know, before we might have been able to get, um, folks on the phone when they were in the office. But now that their home, it’s like, um, they have a bigger workload now because of shifts in, you know, staffing and different things that have changed. So getting someone on the phone might be harder, because now they have so many applications to manage, right? Because every nonprofit needs money, especially now in the middle of a pandemic. So, you know, maybe when they were in the office, people endemic, they might have had some time to have a conversation with you. But now that they’re working from home, they might be down a staff member. They have more applications. Their capacity may not be the same.

[00:28:20.04] spk_1:
All right, so yeah, I guess you would start with the website to try to figure out whether they accept calls, right? And inquiries by phone, like you were saying on the corporate side. But after that, just I mean, if if the website doesn’t really say, just reach out and try and see what see what happens.

[00:29:23.14] spk_0:
Yeah, and I will also say not to to make it more complicated. There’s some foundations out there that don’t have websites. No way to connect with them. Um, you might get a phone number, right? Like there’s foundations that don’t have websites. And so that’s why sometimes beyond just your normal a Google search. Um, sometimes I will say, you know, go to a great writing firm or nonprofit consulting firm. And if they’re willing to do some research for you, um, go that route because I know we have, you know, just relationships with funders and people who worked with that don’t have websites. But we have, you know, the connection there and were able to kind of, like, you know, make an introduction or do something, and we have our ways of finding out who sits on the board and you know how to make those connections. And so, you know, try to do as much as you can on your own. But I would always say, like if you need help, like, don’t be afraid to kind of reach out for help, especially if it’s one time support, right to get of insight on opportunities are available out there and the relationships that you need to build.

[00:29:54.74] spk_1:
Okay, Yeah. A foundation that doesn’t have a website. Sounds pretty closed. I mean, they’re not even They’re not even telling publicly what their funding priorities are. So you have to drill down and do research. What about the, um Well, it used to be the foundation center. Now, is it candid the the, uh, the service that they have, which is a subscription service for grants for foundation research? Yeah, F c. I forget what it used to be called FC Something

[00:29:58.78] spk_0:
etcetera online

[00:30:08.24] spk_1:
foundation center online is that? I mean, I know, I know listeners have to subscribe to it, but is that a valuable, um, research tool?

[00:30:15.94] spk_0:
Absolutely. A lot of those those foundations. Um, some are have websites, some don’t. Right. Um and so using as a resource, you can always pull up the funders they linked to nine nineties. So you’ll see an address and a phone number and a list of board directors. And there’s a lot of insightful information, so that’s definitely a good resource.

[00:30:42.34] spk_1:
What about on the federal funder side talking about a federal agency. What’s the relationship building like potential there?

[00:30:48.34] spk_0:
Yes, that’s a good question. So it’s kind of different, right? It’s not as, um personal as far as sending emails. Hey, this is what we’re doing. It’s more informational. And so every foe. And that’s the opportunity announcements for federal grants, mainly. Yeah, we

[00:31:08.73] spk_1:
have. Sorry. What the heck is a PFOA

[00:32:25.64] spk_0:
federal opportunity announcement? You’ll hear it reference that you’ll also hear RFP but this RFP saying for I don’t know. Sorry, guys. Yes. Okay, so, um, so with that, you will always see a list of everything you need for the grant. What to include? How to submit. Um, and usually will have multiple documents sometimes. Um, if you go to their website, you’ll see frequently asked questions. Always attend. The webinar always have the opportunity to ask questions during the webinar if you didn’t attend a lot of times to have replaced. So it’s good to attend that first. And I say this because they always have a contact of a person to reach out to. If you have questions, you want to be able to reach out to that person. If you have questions but asking questions in a way that you’re kind of sharing more information about what you all are doing and building a relationship that way, like having a person that you can go to to ask questions. The reason why I heavily recommend reading the RFE in its entirety and listening to the Webinar because you do not want to ask questions that have already been answered. I don’t like that they don’t like that. You’re not demonstrating that you’re listening or paying attention or doing anything right. So having that person that you can ask questions is away. I mean, I don’t want to use the relationship, but it’s a way that so that they know that you’re serious, right?

[00:32:45.14] spk_1:
It’s a more professional. It’s more. I mean, these are all professional relationship, but this one’s a little more arms length.

[00:32:46.94] spk_0:
Yeah, more arms lane.

[00:32:48.64] spk_1:

[00:32:49.23] spk_0:
Yeah, no sending. You know, emails of the latest updates. Like, you know, none of that. Nothing in the mail like it’s a professional relationship for sure.

[00:33:26.14] spk_1:
Okay. Okay. Um let’s see what happens when, uh, when you get turned down? Suppose you have the Suppose you have the relationship. I don’t care whether it’s corporate or private or federal, well, federal. You have some kind of relationship, but whatever you get turned down, But you do know somebody at the at the thunder you’re you call sobbing, you’re not sobbing, but you’re disappointed. You know what? What do you What do you recommend when you get the rejection?

[00:34:15.04] spk_0:
Yeah, well, you know being rejected is never easy. It’s often disappointing. I say that that that’s an opportunity to position yourself for your next wind, right? Um, I always ask for feedback on the application and some things that we could do better to strengthen application next time. I think that’s very invaluable to get that sort of insight and be able to resubmit. But taking consideration, the insight that was shared and also just, um, keep on applying for other grants. And I’m going to speak to the emotional piece because I think sometimes it discourages nonprofit leaders to a point where they lose their steam right, and they don’t want to keep applying. But I will say rejections do happen. Um, keep applying to the next great opportunity, see it as a learning lesson and see it’s an opportunity for the funding to get to know you better, and for you to get to know the funder better and just be more aligned with what they’re looking for.

[00:34:39.34] spk_1:
Okay, so it’s it’s good to reach out and get the feedback.

[00:35:52.54] spk_0:
I’m not. And with federal grants, I’m just going to add this. Um oftentimes, reviewer, um, well, provide comments on the proposal and know that you can always ask for those comments. Okay. And that’s feedback as well. So that’s how you get feedback for a federal grant for foundation grant. It’s Hello. We received the decline letter. Would love to get any feedback that you can provide to improve our chances for applying in the future or to be better line now. You may not always get a response because, especially with corporate funders, um, you know, they don’t ever want to put it out there like they’re giving one non profit and advantage over another. So sometimes they may just say if they do reply, they’ll say, Um, yeah, you know, you didn’t make it. You know, here’s the link if you want to apply it in the future, and so if you don’t get a response, don’t be surprised, but definitely try to get some insight. Okay?

[00:35:53.54] spk_1:
And you might have that relationship. Is it okay to pick up the phone to the person that you have the relationship with and ask them? That’s not overreaching it?

[00:36:05.03] spk_0:
Not at that point. It’s already been decisioned. Okay, Okay.

[00:36:08.33] spk_1:
What do you want to spend a little time talking about? I’ve been asking all the questions. What? What do you think? Relationship building wise. Haven’t we talked about that? You want listeners to know?

[00:37:10.43] spk_0:
I just want to emphasize the importance of doing. And I know that nonprofit leaders, executive directors, those that sits on sit on boards your time is stretched and we understand that, and we know it and there’s so many competing priorities. But I do recommend for nonprofit organizations to have a relationship building strategy. The top 20% of the folks on your list that you want to reach out to this year and focus on that 20% have a strategy in place. And it’s not only just calling and emailing, but also engaging in person when we’re able to write in the community right? That’s another way to build relationships and have those authentic connection. So I know it’s definitely sometimes not easy because there’s so many responsibilities. But it is definitely, definitely important. And it will take you much further than what you think.

[00:37:17.83] spk_1:
You practice yoga, right? Do does your Does your yoga practice inform your work? Is that impact your your work?

[00:37:48.73] spk_0:
I will say it keeps me ballots, right? Like I think everyone and I encourage nonprofit leaders and business owners alike to find something that keeps you balance. Because writing France, uh, is sometimes can be really stressful, right? It’s It’s a high pressure, deadline driven industry. Very cerebral. I’m fortunate I’m an introvert. So this this works very well for me, right? I am. I’m in the right profession for sure. Sound

[00:37:57.66] spk_1:
like an introvert?

[00:38:03.42] spk_0:
I don’t. I am. I am an extroverted introvert. That

[00:38:15.82] spk_1:
sounds a little a little oxymoronic. What is an extroverted introvert? You are one. But how do you It depends on the setting. Is that like you? If there’s a microphone in front of you, then you’re an extrovert. But if you’re at a party, you’re an introvert. What? How does that work?

[00:39:06.82] spk_0:
Well, what it is if you’re an introverted person you refuel yourself by doing introverted activities. So if it’s being by yourself or reading and writing, that’s what you reveal yourself. And then when you do extroverted activities, it drains you right. You feel like you have to kind of come back to your reading and writing to refill yourself. Extroverts are the exact opposite. They reveal themselves by interacting with people and talking and began doing things. And then if they’re doing something that’s like, quiet and reading a book, it drains them. So you really have to identify what drains you and what feels you and I know being introvert fuels me, and I do like doing extroverted things. But when I do them, I am completely a exhausted. If I’m speaking somewhere, I have to plan, uh, the next morning to just decompress and do some yoga and some introverted activities to kind of re fuel myself. Before I kind of get back in the mix of things

[00:39:20.82] spk_1:
you ride horses to.

[00:39:22.75] spk_0:
I do

[00:39:24.72] spk_1:
so that’s another. I guess that’s an introverted active right. That’s a solo. I mean, you could be just one of the person or something, but that’s pretty much a solo activity is,

[00:39:43.22] spk_0:
you know, and I look at the things that I do like to do, and they tend to be so activities. It’s just This is very strange, although I I like people. I have a great team, were really well connected. But I do know that I enjoy horseback riding and yoga and doing things like that.

[00:39:47.22] spk_1:
All right, the extroverted introvert. I understand now. It’s what you get, which you derive their energy from exactly. Okay, so now you’re exhausted talking

[00:40:06.41] spk_0:
to me for a No, I’m good. I think this was This was good. This is a nice balance for me. I think. You know, if I was doing a keynote somewhere, I’d be totally exhausted. That’s different. Yeah,

[00:40:09.13] spk_1:
non profit radio is not exhausting. No,

[00:40:11.36] spk_0:
no, it’s good.

[00:41:05.21] spk_1:
Thank you, Stephen. Thanks very much for having us. Sheldon Richardson. She’s at Shavon Richardson, and the company is at Think and Inc grants dot com Next week, Jeanne Takagi returns with Build Your best Better board, Bud. Maybe we’ll leave out the bud. That’s sexist. Keep that. Keep the butt out. It’ll just be build your best Better Board and Jeanne Takagi, always a pleasure to have him look forward to that. That’s your next week’s show. All right, if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows Social Media

[00:41:08.33] spk_3:
is by Susan Chavez

[00:41:09.70] spk_0:
Mark Silverman

[00:41:17.31] spk_3:
is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty, be with me next week for nonprofit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go

[00:41:38.31] spk_1:
out and be great. Mm, yeah.

Nonprofit Radio for June 5, 2020: Don’t Get Played By The Product Demo & Facebook Fundraising Data

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Rubin Singh: Don’t Get Played By The Product Demo
We’ve all watched in awe as the cursor flies across the screens of a demonstration. Nine months later we’re scratching our heads. “They made it look so easy back then.” Get insider tips from Rubin Singh, who’s led hundreds of sales demos. He’s CEO of OneTenth Consulting. (Part of our 20NTC coverage)



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[00:00:11.54] spk_0:
Okay. Hello. Welcome to tony-martignetti non

[00:02:30.78] spk_1:
profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. I’ll have something to say about George Floyd and racial equity in Tony’s Take Two. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of Ballon O prostatitis if you pissed me off with the idea that you missed today’s show. Don’t get played by the product demo. We’ve all watched in awe as the cursor flies across the screens of a demonstration. Nine months later, we’re scratching our heads. They made it look so easy back then. Get insider tips from Ruben Sing, who’s led hundreds of sales demos. He’s CEO of 1/10 Consulting. This is part of our 20 and TC coverage and Facebook fundraising data. This 20 and D C panel feels your frustration over Facebook not sharing donor data, but they also admonish that you can’t ignore the value of Facebook fundraising. They bust myths, help you overcome the challenges, reveal had a thank and engage your fundraisers and steer clear of pitfalls. There. Nick Byrne from Give Panel and consultants Julia Campbell and Maureen will be off tony Stick to be The change were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As. Guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Here is don’t get played by the product Demo. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. That’s the 2020 non profit Technology Conference sponsored A 20 D. C by a Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. My guest now is Ruben Singh. He is CEO of 1/10 Consulting Ruben. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Thanks

[00:02:38.40] spk_2:
so much, tony. Glad to be here.

[00:02:48.54] spk_1:
Pleasure on pleasure. I’m glad that we could work this out virtually. And I know that you are well and safe outside Baltimore in Maryland goods, your topic is don’t get played by the product. Demo, Exclamation mark! If you’re shouting this from a mountaintop, don’t get played by the product. Demo. You’re an insider you’ve done How many? Hundreds of product demos?

[00:03:02.44] spk_2:
Yeah, definitely in in the hundred’s. But the thing is, I’ve been on all sides of it. I have, ah, delivered demos. I have been on the the the customer side or the prospects of receiving demos, and I’ve also coordinated them on behalf of my customers. So I felt like I had a lot of good experience and perhaps some insider tips and tricks toe offer.

[00:03:22.57] spk_1:
Okay, there is There is some deception in these in these demonstrations.

[00:03:40.46] spk_2:
Well, you know, I wouldn’t quite say deception. It’s a spectrum, Really, Uh, some things I have some practices I’ve seen over the years have ranged from you, maybe a little questionable to mislead it, and then some of it has been deceptive. But, you know, honestly, tony Yeah, it’s a little tongue in cheek. I I don’t want to imply, especially the non profit sector, that these that these sales reps are being dishonest in any way. I think most of them have great intentions. But what I really think that there’s a handful of tips and tricks and practices that folks can use to really make sure they’re getting the most out of their demos.

[00:05:07.37] spk_1:
Okay, My my recollection of these as a consult. So I do plan giving consulting. And I’ve gotten some demonstrations for profit from products as a as a as an observer for on the client behalf. Um, and then together we make a decision, but my memory of them is that the cursor is flying around the screen. It started non stop. And then at the very end of a 30 minute demonstration, Do you have any questions? Well, I probably had questions from screen number two about 90 seconds into the thing, but I’m flummoxed now. I’m overwhelmed by the by the movement by by the screens flying around. I can’t remember my question. I I think I had one, but I’m not positive of that. I need to I need a I need a drink. I need to calm down, because the thing just went so damn fast, you know? Um, all right, so that’s that’s probably on the negative end of the spectrum again. Not suggesting deception, but it just goes so fast, you know? Shoot. All right, So where should we start? I mean, you have tips for preparing before the demonstration starts. Yeah,

[00:05:12.64] spk_2:
Well, what you just described is a very common situation. And I would say where the biggest gap is I’ve seen where customers have come back to me and said, You know what? Everything looks so seamless and looks so, uh, you know, so nice and shiny and so quick and easy in the demo. But that’s not the product we ended up with. The biggest reason for that is, in my opinion at least, is how you come into that demo. How prepared you are. If you simply just walk in, let the sales rep do their thing and just, you know, as you and just wait to be wowed and impressed. You’re very likely going to end up disappointed so that one of the first points that I really bring up in, uh, my talk was to present some use cases to really think to yourself, what are the four or five things that we must have on Day one when our new system is live, as well as one of those four or five things that are working terrible right now in our current system, those are the areas we want to focus on, Let’s draft up our use cases. Let’s get very specific examples, not yes or no questions and provide that to the sales rep account executive ahead of time. That way, you’re not really focusing on the fluff. You’re not focusing on the bells and whistles. You can watch that stuff on YouTube. You’re really focusing on those areas that are going to be critical for you to be successful.

[00:06:24.34] spk_1:
Okay, Anything else we should be thinking about as a team before we before we view this extravaganza?

[00:06:30.66] spk_2:
Yeah, definitely the prep that you do up front. You know, I kind of alluded to this that you doing your homework? A lot of these products that you see out there, especially in a non profit technology side. There’s demos available. There’s demos available on their websites. You know, maybe you need to download a white paper. There’s demos available on YouTube. Eso, you know, watch those demos do your homework. Don’t just wait to the demo. You know the facilitated demo before you see it for the first time. That way, you can really understand what the potential pain points are again. Also, there’s many different organizations out there that do independent studies on the various donor management C r M systems eso. So that might be a place as well as other other applications. So do your homework. Understand where the weaknesses are already a prom. That way you can focus on their those areas in the demo. So the team or the pattern I really focus on here is move away from the demo just being a presentation and really try to make it a working session with your sales rep. Eso you’re really working through this scenarios and not just sitting back and watching can presentation.

[00:07:29.58] spk_1:
Okay, Yeah, you’re focusing them on on where your pain points are, what your must haves are and not just getting a generic description of, you know, a lot of times, you know, if you if you end up meeting this, then we have this component and and we have this feature to you might not end up needing it, but I just want to acquaint you with it. You know, that that’s really irrelevant.

[00:07:52.71] spk_2:
That’s right. And so those were some things that you could ahead of time, you know, even during the demonstration itself, there’s certain things that you want to look out for, You know, again, the yes, no questions. Do you have all into your management? Do you have events management? Do you have playing? Giving the answer is always gonna be yes to a Yes. No question. We had a If you can always repurpose, you know, certain functionality to make it fit A particular scenario. So I try to encourage your my profit, remind my customers that’s gonna move away from that and really give a specific example. Hey, you know, I do a lot of events and I sit at the desk during our gala and I need to register people when they come in the door and also have the ability with the check and check out process to enter a new attendee. Show me how I can do that and that that could be one of the use cases that you present ahead of time. So again it gives it gives very specific things. Another thing that I suggest is is be careful about those words of integration and compatibility. Um, because everyone is integrated, you know, especially I deal a lot with Salesforce and everyone claims to be integrated with Salesforce but that integration it could mean anything. It could be a plug and play out that takes 10 minutes. Or it could be, Ah, it could be a separate third party solution that you need with 1/3 party consultant to integrate it. So all that falls within the category of integration. So you want to be very clear when someone says, Oh, yeah, we’re compatible with such and such or were integrated with such and such. What exactly does that mean? And how does it look?

[00:09:57.04] spk_1:
Okay, that’s interesting. Yeah, I don’t think most people know that. They just they say, Oh, it’s integrated. Okay, that’s awesome. It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As Things are moving fast. The Senate passed a bill on paycheck protection program loans that extends the covered period from eight weeks to 24 weeks. You need a place to keep up with everything that we’re being hit with. Financially wegner-C.P.As dot com Quick resource is and blawg now back to don’t get played by the product demo. I should have given you a chance to shout out what? What’s the work at 1/10 Consulting.

[00:10:27.99] spk_2:
Oh, well, we, uh we do everything from strategy we work exclusively with nonprofits. We do strategy, work. We do implementation of C R M. Systems all the way through change management and user adoption. So we take a slightly different approach in the sense that we, uh it’s not really just the technology that we focus on. We really try to make sure that the people, the process, the strategy, the data, everything is aligned. Because if one of those pieces were missing, you’re not you’re not gonna be happy. So as a consulting practice, we try to make sure all those are aligned to help help move missions

[00:10:35.81] spk_1:
forward. What’s the significance of the name 1/10 Consulting. What is that? Does that mean?

[00:10:55.56] spk_2:
Yeah. You know, in the six faith, there’s a, ah principle or a concept of thus fund we call it, which is giving 10% of your your income, your time to the community into the greater good. Um, and in my early years of starting this practice, I worked with a lot of faith based communities. Um, and as I was implementing donor management systems for churches and synagogues and masa, I started noticing that this concept of 10% or 1/10 of your income. Er, and giving back was was such a central component of every one of these faiths and every one of these faith traditions. Eso to me, it was it was nice. It was this unifying principle. And and so that’s kind of where 1/10 comes from that the 1/10 really represents this this treasure. And, you know, I’m hoping 1/10 consulting helps helps that 10% really realize its full

[00:11:36.74] spk_1:
potential. So before you recognize this commonality, what were you, Reuben sing Consulting? What were you before you were 1/10

[00:11:43.75] spk_2:
before 1/10 I have worked for, um I worked at a non profit sector, but also in CR ems for over 20 years. So prior to 1/10 I was with an organization called Round Corner. In their non profit technology sector. I was vice president of digital transformation, and, um, and they actually have been acquired by Salesforce. But that was the time I realized that I don’t want to be tied into one particular product and really want to be able to look at things more holistically that way. Started.

[00:12:14.94] spk_1:
Um, let’s go back to ah to advice you um, you know, part of what you ah talk about is tough questions to ask way at that stage, or is there more you want to say leading up to it? But you you, uh you take it where where we need to go,

[00:13:44.97] spk_2:
right? Right. Yeah, I think you know, as far as the tough questions that we covered, some of them the integration, the interoperability. Okay, I think another thing we talked about with terms, not just the yes, no questions. Also, when it comes to things like, Do you handle soft credits? Do you handle plan giving? Do you handle solicitors again? The questions the answers will always be Yes. And although, you know, matching gifts, workplace gifts, these these air something that all non profits due in some way, shape or form. But you want to make sure that your impression and your understanding of it is the same as the sales reps because I’ve noticed a lot of gaps in that area as well. Another couple tougher questions that I always like to get into is asking this question of what exactly is has been upgraded in this demo. So I’ve just seen it Time and time again, tony. Where, uh, you know, again, you’ve seen this great demo. And then when you come back and say, Well, these air, like, archaic looking Web forms can’t show these to my donors, and then they come back and say, Oh, yeah, you just need to upgrade to the next forms package or, oh, if you’re going to send more than three emails, you have to say you have to upgrade to the next email package. So the demo has been filled with all these add ons and upgrades, but you’re kind of getting something different, you know?

[00:13:47.33] spk_1:
And so you bought that you bought the base model, but you test drove the, uh, the SLX expanded, uh, 16 cylinder version.

[00:14:01.74] spk_2:
Exactly. And I often, for example, a few years back I was, uh, family. We were purchasing home, and we wanted a new home, and we were looking all these model houses, and I know some people really like to see these beautifully furnished homes with great interior decorating. And I was just like, Can I just see an empty house? You know, I want to know what I’m getting. I get thrown off, I get distracted by all this. You know, Do you have some sort of, you know, house that’s being built, That that’s the same model that I could look at. And so I kind of looked at demos the same way. Do as little as possible, you know, and And don’t customise too much. Don’t add on anything. I want to see how close my use cases worked with your out of the box product that way. Ah, comparing apples down.

[00:14:39.06] spk_1:
Okay, Okay. So you can actually ask them to demo a specific version that you’d be most likely to be buying without whatever add ons, plug ins, upgrades, et cetera.

[00:14:51.31] spk_2:
Yeah, and it really should be easier for the sales rep to to prepare for that on and really have them. You’re focusing less on customizing and focus more on the use cases that you provided them. Okay. And I will tell you, you know, this not all sales reps or account executives will be receptive to this. And some of them might say, Oh, this is too much work. Or where they might look at your use cases and say we’re clearly not a fit, which is not a bad thing either. At least you know upfront. Yeah. The sales reps that I think are really good. And some of the ones I’ve worked with they would love something like this. They would love the client toe, give them a list of use cases. Give him some very specifics That way, they’re not guessing either. Ah, and the session is going to be a lot more fruitful when both sides

[00:15:34.44] spk_1:
are prepared. OK, OK, Reuben Weaken, spend some more time together. If you have more suggestions,

[00:16:04.52] spk_2:
you know, I’d say that there’s there’s probably one other suggestion that I would, uh I alluded to this at the very beginning on I think it kind of sums up. The whole point is when I talked Teoh sales reps and want to prepare them for a demo, I even tell them up front. You know, we’re not really interested in the demo. We’d like to have a working session and just even using that term, it changes the paradigm, and it really changes the relationship. They’re between yourself and the vendor. Eso even just something as simple as recommending that we’re calling it something different. The sales right will come in a little bit more prepared to work with you and really try to work through those use cases. Eso the more you can move away from the canned, you know, bells and whistles, presentation and Maurin toe a meaningful conversation on your use cases, the more happier you’re going to be with the end product,

[00:16:38.54] spk_1:
okay? And I guess if you get any if you get any pushback or objection from the from the sales rep about converting this from a demo to a work session, that’s a red flag about whether whether you want to purchase their ah, against purchasing their their product and continuing with the conversation with them.

[00:16:47.75] spk_2:
Absolutely. I mean, you know, we’re talking about on profits here, and, you know, obviously funds are always limited, and you want to make sure that you’re making smart decisions on where that money goes. So, like I said, a nonprofit sector, that’s the sales reps I’ve worked with their usually very much in line with this thinking. Um, so so but yeah, if there was any objection, that’s definitely red flag. In my opinion,

[00:17:10.04] spk_1:
you have ah, you have a resource at the on the 1/10 consulting site

[00:17:17.24] spk_2:
Yeah, yeah, you know, and we’re really bummed about that. The conference, the NTC conference being canceled. So what we did is we went ahead and I recorded the session that I had planned to deliver at the NTC conference, Um and ah ah. And have uploaded that recording to our website www 0.1 temp that consulting. Um, it’s there in the blog’s section. And you know, I would also suggest that that blawg section does have a lot of other resource is, you know, if you’re interested in grant management and what products are out there or if you’re trying to figure out what might be the CIA RAM solution for you, we have several articles free webinars on other insights that folks are welcome to take a look at

[00:17:56.84] spk_1:
Okay. And the full the full conference. Ah, this presentation is there. That’s correct. Okay, is 1/10 dot consulting. That’s correct. Oh, I didn’t know. I didn’t know dot Consulting is a, uh Is it available for those called extension?

[00:18:17.13] spk_2:
Yeah, it’s available. Signed, signed up for a couple years ago and definitely opens things up. T create the name that you want, so yeah, www 0.1 temps that consulting, and we’ll take you right

[00:18:29.14] spk_1:
there. Okay, It’s in the block block section. That’s right. All right. Ruben saying he’s CEO. 1/10 Consulting, Um, in Maryland, outside Baltimore. Rubin. Thank you very much. Thanks very much for sharing.

[00:18:35.14] spk_2:
Thank you, Tony. I appreciate your time.

[00:21:12.05] spk_1:
My pleasure. Thanks. And thank you for being with non profit radio coverage of 20 and TC. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain software, Their accounting product Denali is built for non profits from the ground up. So you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands how you work. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now time for tony Stick to George Floyd. It’s a recorded murder. I am skeptically optimistic that the United States will deal this time with its institutional racism. If we’re gonna have a chance that that we each need to be the change we want to see, there’s no waiting for political leadership. They’ll get dragged along after we the people, start the conversation at our level. That needs to happen and I would like to help. Next week, non profit radio will have a special episode devoted to how to start the racism and white privilege conversation in your office. It’s a long journey. It begins with a single step. We each need to be the change we want to see. Start with me next week. That is tony Steak, too. Now, time for Facebook fundraising data. Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 20 NTC 2020. Non profit technology conference with me now, our Nick Byrne, Julia Campbell and Maureen will be off. Nick is founder and CEO at Give Panel. Julia Campbell is author, speaker and teacher at J. Campbell Social Marketing And Maureen will be off is digital strategist and technology coach with practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Welcome, everybody. Nick. Julie. Morning. Welcome. Welcome, city pleasure. I’m glad we’re able to work this out. I know you’re each well and safe on. I’m glad to hear that. Everybody’s okay. Um, we’re talking about Facebook. Fundraising your 2020 topic, uh, for NTC is best kept secrets the getting and using Facebook fundraiser data. Julia, you’ve been talking about Facebook fundraising for so long we had you on?

[00:21:16.09] spk_3:
Yeah, last two years ago

[00:21:18.57] spk_1:
Was the the last year or two years ago. Um, you’re gonna have toe. You have to find a new gig.

[00:21:23.62] spk_3:
I know. Well keeps changing

[00:21:26.41] spk_1:
this this one trick things.

[00:21:27.84] spk_3:
And now I found neck. You’re like my Facebook fundraising soulmate, so

[00:21:32.14] spk_1:
that’s right. So I’m going to start with you, Since I know for a fact you’ve been doing this thinking about Facebook fundraising a long time. Um, what the problem is, Facebook doesn’t share. Right? We lamented the last year or two years ago, you and I.

[00:22:42.13] spk_3:
Yes. So I Yeah, it was in New Orleans, Um, 18 ntc with and I did the first session on Facebook fundraising tools, and it was when they had just come out and I had mental health, America and the Polaris Project with me because they were kind of just slaying it with Facebook funders and raising thousands of dollars. Like Nick likes to talk about that magic money that comes down when you turn on the tools. But the number one this was two years, the number one quandary and problem, an issue that nonprofits had and still have is this issue that you don’t get the information of the contact information for everyone that makes a donation, even if it’s not to you? Necessarily. It’s to someone else’s birthday fundraiser. So our entire philosophy and the three of us are all on the same page, and we talked about it. We have talked about this a lot is that you’re missing the point. If you focus on the data that Facebook gives you, there are ways to get the data and the content information for your fund raisers. The people that are raising money for you that are stepping up and saying I want to donate my birthday. This is a cause that I really care about right now. Everyone come together, raise money. Those are the people you need to focus on. And I think Nick made an amazing amazing point earlier this morning when we were talking. I love that point where you don’t want to clog up your Sierra Room in your database with the data of all these donors who don’t even want to hear from you anyway because they haven’t elected to hear from you. They didn’t really box

[00:23:27.81] spk_1:
their connection here, person they’re connected. The person who is running the fundraiser?

[00:23:32.51] spk_3:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So get around this. We need to get over this hump. And Nick can also talk a lot more about that. And Maureen can

[00:23:40.82] spk_1:
too. All right, So you don’t want to focus on what we don’t have.

[00:23:44.34] spk_3:
Yes, there is a

[00:23:44.95] spk_1:
possibility that they might be, uh, uh, interested in engaging with you and your cause.

[00:23:51.81] spk_3:

[00:23:52.45] spk_1:
But you don’t want you don’t focus on that possibility. Want focus on what we do have is that

[00:24:31.94] spk_3:
Well, yeah, there’s kind of two ways to look at it. One is Do you want un discretionary? Do you want to, um, totally on un discretionary funds? Do you want free funds that you could do with whatever you want to do with coming in? No one telling you what to do? What? They’re not earmarked. Do you want that kind of money? Do you want exposure to a brand new audience? Or do you want to focus on the fact that I gave $5 to Maureen’s birthday fundraiser But I only gave because of Maureen? I’m not really interested in animal rescue yourself. Hung up on getting my email, but we got to stop with that.

[00:24:33.41] spk_1:
OK? All right. Well, Nick, Julie obviously teed you off. So why don’t you give us your overview?

[00:24:39.94] spk_5:
Yeah, I mean, I think, like like Facebook. Call it social fund raising. And I think that’s the key, right? It’s social. It’s it’s enabling people who love your cause who want, like, support your mission to go out and raise money from their family and friends. And if if organizations and nonprofits just treat it like direct mail or something, right, it’s not social, and so you have to you have to go with it. And so there’s this myth that, you know you can’t get the data. Yeah, Facebook don’t share the data. That is true. But actually, we’ve pion eight near two ways that you can get a lot of fundraiser data. You’re not going to get the data of every single donor that gives to every every single fundraiser on Or do you want to clog your sierra em up with that information, right? Because they’re not gonna convert on email or direct mail like less than 2% of them opt in. When Facebook asked them to hear from you. And that’s a good sign that they gave to your t their friend or their family or their loved one. Not Teoh your cause. So go with the flow. Don’t fight Facebook. Use it for a CE, much as we can possibly use it for. It’s a fantastic fundraising

[00:25:50.14] spk_1:
tour. Okay, Nick, what’s out in your background? You have You have a projector on your ceiling projecting that onto the wall.

[00:25:56.43] spk_5:
So that’s Michael. Jordan told me to read the quote. It’s a bit it needs to be bigger, right? But Michael Jordan quite. It’s a Michael Jordan quote. So is Michael Jordan

[00:26:05.70] spk_1:
Reed. It go ahead.

[00:26:20.05] spk_5:
It says, Uh, I’ve missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I’ve lost almost 300 games 26 times. I’ve been trusted to take the winning shot and missed. I failed over and over again in my life, and that is why I succeed.

[00:26:25.02] spk_3:
I love that

[00:26:26.76] spk_1:
additional. Okay. Is that that’s not a projection from your ceiling onto the wall, is it?

[00:26:31.26] spk_5:
That is one of those decals things.

[00:26:34.15] spk_1:
Okay? You’re very, very high tech. If you’ve got one

[00:26:38.12] spk_5:
E say it’s like a hologram,

[00:26:41.29] spk_1:
right? Exactly like It’s a

[00:26:42.77] spk_5:
commercial reality. It’s argument is not really there.

[00:26:50.94] spk_1:
It’s one of those lights that shines in front of a restaurant on the sidewalk. Where is it coming from?

[00:26:52.25] spk_5:
A car, guys, it’s,

[00:26:53.94] spk_1:
uh uh OK, Marine. You want toe? Er, why don’t you add to the overview and get helping us get started?

[00:28:30.69] spk_4:
Sure. I think that, you know, part of what Julia and Nick are alluding to has been around for a long time when you think about peer to peer fundraising generally. So I’ve helped a lot of people over the years with either live physical events, that’s a five K or a bike or walk or D i y peer to peer fundraising events and organizations, generally speaking, do not do anything with the donors who give to those team captains or those participants. The data does go into their C. R M because somebody’s made an online gift and is part of that text stuff. The date is getting sucked over, but they’re not trying to convert those people. But for some reason, people feel very frustrated about the inability to get the $5 donor into their database and is Nick and Julie have both said. You’re paying attention to the glass half empty. You need to shift your mind, pay attention to the information you can get and cultivate those relationships. Um, we and fundraising think a lot about the lifetime value of a donor, right? It’s just like it’s ingrained. And whether you were formally trained in the stuff or not is all around us about who’s valuable, Who do I spend time on and who I don’t. And Facebook turns that like a 45 degree angle. And it can be awful hard to get your leadership on board with ignoring donors just really what we’re telling people to dio. Those aren’t the folks that you should be paying attention to When it comes to Facebook fundraising, it’s the fund raisers themselves, not the people who were actually giving. And that could take some conversation at your board level or your your executive or sea level Um, inside your award that it is. It is not the way it’s always been, and you have to be cool with that and give

[00:29:00.80] spk_1:
it a try.

[00:29:01.75] spk_5:
Can I just jump in, jump in and just come off the back of the no Yeah, yeah. On anarchism. So polite, right?

[00:29:21.14] spk_1:
No. Yes. You’re not sure what I was? What I was going to say, Maureen, before I was interrupted was e. I could see how clearly. Yes. Take a drink, Nick, please. I can see why your company’s practical wisdom.

[00:29:23.34] spk_4:
Yeah, like

[00:29:30.74] spk_1:
your wisdom for non profit accidental techies. All right. And I saw you checkered with Donald Techie. Okay, so So we’ve gotta persuade our vice president, CEO and board, Maybe. I mean, the board may not be involved in what we do. Ah, fundraising campaign on Facebook or not. But at

[00:29:43.83] spk_4:
least these leaders, you

[00:30:05.28] spk_1:
persuade some people in the chain that we should be focusing on the five people a year who hosted us hosted a fundraiser for us on Facebook. Or it might be more than five, But but not not the 500 who gave at the rate of 100 each to to those to those five fundraisers. Ones who created the campaign’s not the wardens who donated to the campaigns.

[00:30:32.38] spk_4:
Okay, wait a few rooms about Facebook. You know, sometimes people have negative feelings about Facebook and that can you know, dr their business practices and where they’re choosing to invest their time. And what we’re what we’re here to say is Evaluate, evaluate, test it. Is it gonna work for your organization or not? And

[00:30:32.57] spk_1:

[00:30:32.68] spk_4:
probably is. So, you know, get ready. Get ready for that

[00:31:05.04] spk_1:
time for our last break. Turn to communications. They’re former journalists. So you get help getting your message through it is possible to be heard through the headlines. They know exactly what to do to build relationships with the journalists that matter to you. They are themselves former journalists. Those great relationships will lead to great coverage. They’re a turn hyphen to not CEO. We’ve got but loads more time for Facebook fundraising data. Nick you not because you interrupted, but Julia said earlier that you had some tools that we can applying here. You want to acquaint us with something?

[00:32:40.83] spk_5:
Yes. So my background as a digital fundraiser, we got into this early when client we saw the problems of the clients were having with data on. We started doing everything like, manually with spreadsheets and reaching out to fund raisers one of their time on Facebook, that kind of thing. And we just decided Look, this is crazy. We’ve got to build a tool to help that fast forward 18 months later, and we’ve got over 100 nonprofits in seven countries using give panel on What we do is we basically help organizations take the power back from Facebook? That’s kind of what we do. Like Facebook are getting a lot out of this, and that’s great. They’ve given us free tools. It’s free to use no platform cost, no technology costs, nor even any credit card fees, Right? So Facebook have given us something great. We know that they benefit, but our job is to leverage that tool as much as we can get a gun and leverage it for their advertising model on to keep them employees happy and like it’s a great thing that they’ve given the world. But it’s upto organizations toe to take the power back. And so we do that by helping how organizations Steward Steward their fundraisers get the data from their fundraisers on do you know, see graphs and dashboards and all that kind of thing. So it’s kind of the missing tool that Facebook haven’t given Facebook’s base books. No interested, necessarily in kind of building the best tool for charities, their customers, the end user on. So they’ll always be a gap where people like me will want to service the non profit. Right? OK, that’s what we

[00:32:43.61] spk_1:
do. Okay. Thank you. Julia party. Your description says how to identify who launches Facebook fundraisers. Is that Is that something that’s difficult to dio Julia?

[00:32:54.64] spk_3:
Yes. So Facebook is not going Teoh tell you when someone launches fundraiser and they’re not going to tell you who has necessarily launched a fundraiser. So you do have If you’re small organization and you’re not using a tech tool like give panel to help you, then you are going to have to figure that out. You’re gonna have to constantly be looking at your fundraisers and constantly trying to figure out and identify where the campaigns are. But that is absolutely crucial even for a small organization to dio to thank people especially, and give them the tools to sort of have already in your maybe on your website toe have a little bit of a tool kit. Maybe it’s a one page document with tips for fundraisers to really elevate their campaigns because we know nobody was born a fundraiser. No one’s born knowing how to fundraise. And if someone’s trying to raise $200 for their birthday, it’s a win win. If they can succeed because they’re gonna feel great and it’s going to be an amazing legacy for them and they’re gonna be really excited, and then you’re gonna build that relationship with them because you helped them. So, yeah,

[00:34:06.96] spk_1:
so how do we identify if we don’t have a tool? How right? Go to Facebook O. R. And find who’s doing this for us.

[00:34:14.09] spk_3:
I’ll turn that over to net cause there’s a couple ways.

[00:34:25.07] spk_5:
Okay? Yes. So Facebook. When you signed up to Facebook giving tools, you get a tab on your fate on your non profit Facebook page that says fundraisers. So you can see fund raisers that have raised more than $50 in that list. The problem is that you over about 70 60 to 70% of your fund raisers don’t reach $50. There’s a lot. There’s a lot of big fundraisers, but there’s also a lot, a lot of small fundraisers.

[00:34:41.89] spk_1:
All right, so you’re not going to capture the smallest ones. You won’t be able to say thank you to them. Maureen, what do we do? Once we have identified the people who have have launched these fundraisers for US

[00:35:35.06] spk_4:
micro appreciation, I’ll use next term. You have to find small ways to recognize and appreciate the effort that these fundraisers air making, no matter how much or how little they’re raising for you. Facebook is the great equalizer in that everybody sort of knows what everybody is doing, and your fundraisers expect it. They expect you to be paying attention. They expect you to thank them and acknowledge them all within the tool, you know? Yeah, you certainly want to try to get enough information and their permission to move them over onto your email list so that they can learn more about your organization. They can be more empowered to fundraise more for your get otherwise involved, but, you know, sending a message. Knicks got a great program where people send a tiny little gift like a like a pin, a piece of swag that in your non profit they have sitting around It’s pennies. Teoh access it a diner to to mail it out, and then that person has a tangible thing that is reinforcing that relationship. They knew that I did it. They took a minute to say thank you. They actually gave me a thank you gift. And so every time an opportunity comes up in my personal life for me to start a fundraiser, I’m gonna go back to that organization and show my loyalty.

[00:36:20.11] spk_1:
And what can we do to encourage these fundraisers, whether it’s birthday or or whatever, How can we? How can we be promoting that idea to To our constituents?

[00:36:34.41] spk_4:
You do have to promote it. Radio promoting Julia, which I

[00:37:28.28] spk_3:
guess you have to be proactive rather than reactive. So sure, setting up the tools and registering for Facebook payments. Make sure you’re you know I’s are dotted and your T’s are crossed and your registered and you have all the tools set up. But it’s just like with the Donate button on websites 5 10 years ago. If you just put it on your website and don’t tell anybody, then you can’t just expect the donations to rolling as much as they could. You really have to be proactive. So advertising it, telling people this is an exciting new way. It’s effective. It’s safe Facebook doesn’t take any fees, kind of dispelling the myths and misconceptions out there around Facebook fundraising showing people examples of other fundraisers that have occurred, giving them the tools like, um, giving them photos, giving them videos, giving them text, explaining to them here the top five things to do when you start a Facebook fundraiser. Here’s what to do when you hit your halfway point but actively encouraging people. I’ve seen it in a welcome email sequence. Actually. Ah, lot of nonprofits. When you sign up for the email issue, make a donation. I’ve seen them encourage you in their little sequence. Say, to make a bigger impact. Would you be interested in setting up a Facebook funders or force? Put something on your website? Put something in your email signature. Do a Facebook live. You know, you really have to look at it as all hands on deck promoting this.

[00:38:06.00] spk_1:
What do we know about the characteristics of people who are most likely to do this? Are they necessarily the under 30?

[00:38:13.12] spk_3:
I don’t know, Nick. You might know that we

[00:38:15.41] spk_5:
we don’t have any demographic information. What we do have is that its acquisition, actually, this isn’t for something for your existing supporters donors as much as it is people who are getting noted, verified a week before on Facebook, a week before their birthday. Hey, do you want to set up a birthday fundraiser? And then they’re searching for breast cancer? They’re searching for arthritis. They’re searching for dunk cap, you know, whatever they want, their passion about what they want to give to. So 90% of our client data From what the studies we’ve done our new to the organization. They’re not people that were already on the database. So this is acquisition and its huge. We have clients that have 30,000 fundraisers a month. I mean, when you get it right, it’s by big.

[00:39:05.70] spk_1:
I’m surprised to hear I’m surprised to hear its acquisition. I didn’t expect that at all. We’re committed donors who thought of you on their birthday. You’re saying they’re thinking that their birthday is coming up and they’re looking for a cause?

[00:39:39.52] spk_5:
Yeah, that’s like So my my wife lost unfortunate, lost her mom to breast cancer two years ago. She wasn’t she just fighting breast cancer and shows the 1st 1 that came up on what we’re seeing is as more nonprofits get on Facebook, the slice of the pie is getting thinner and thinner, so you need to get in early is growing, but so is the adoption. And so organizations that go on it two years ago did very well. It’s not the birthday. Fundraising is slowing down is the fact that actually more organizations are jumping on because they’re seeing how successful it is.

[00:39:46.57] spk_1:
Okay, we’re gonna start to wrap up, Julia. I’m gonna give you ah, a shot and then never go to Maureen for the final. What do you want to leave people with? Maybe how to get started. Whatever final thoughts.

[00:39:59.52] spk_3:
Well, if you’ve not started yet, go to social good dot FB dot com and see if you’re eligible to register. It’s not open in every single country yet. And some tools air open in some countries and some are not. But the very the second thing I would dio is understand that this can Onley augment and enhance what you’re doing. What we’re saying is not to completely replace everything that’s working. I’m not saying Onley to face with fundraising and throw out your direct mail, which is what people are hearing. I think sometimes when I talk, I’m not saying that. I’m saying this is gonna enhance. And like Nick just said, it’s a way to acquire new people that are passionate. That could be even more passionate about your cause. Because everyone’s already on Facebook all day already. You know, there’s millions. Billions of people on Facebook is the leverage, the tools and do the best you can with what you have.

[00:40:55.84] spk_1:
Okay, Marine, would you wrap us up, please?

[00:41:31.71] spk_4:
Sure. Um I would say, Don’t let the perfect get in the way of the good, you know we can. We’re very terrible about snow. Sometimes in non profit culture. We take a really long time to think about things. A really long time to change gears. This is a time for action. Even if the world wasn’t dealing with the pandemic, it is a time for action for nonprofits. Try something having experimental frame. Get buying from your leadership, but try it. Try it. You really have nothing to lose. How’s that?

[00:41:38.24] spk_1:
Would an impassioned plea Yes, that Z from from Kit God, that’s Marine will be off digital strategist and technology coach with practical wisdom for non profit accidental techies. Also, Julia Campbell, The

[00:41:47.02] spk_3:
Penis of your voice over Any time you talk

[00:41:49.93] spk_1:
work what it is. The company right?

[00:41:52.11] spk_4:
It absolutely is

[00:42:10.80] spk_1:
way. Non profit. Accidental techies. Julia Campbell, author, speaker, trainer, author, speaker, teacher and trainer. Well, teachers Train right, Jay Campbell, social marketing and Nick Byrne with Any at the end. Founder and CEO Give Panel Marine and Julia and Nick. Thank you so much for sharing with us.

[00:42:15.43] spk_3:
Thanks, tony. Thank you.

[00:43:41.52] spk_1:
Stay Well, I’m glad we were able to work this out and thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of the virtual 20 NTC workshops sponsored by Cougar Mountain Software. The Knowledge Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial. Thanks so much for being with us next week. The special episode on the racism conversation and more from 20 NTC on the regularly scheduled show. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be sent. You find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers wegner-C.P.As dot com. But Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and my turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Ah, creative producer is clear. Meyer off Sam Liebowitz Managed stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our rep guy. This music is by Scots You with me next week for not profit radio Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great

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Nonprofit Radio for June 28, 2019: From Opera Singer To Fundraiser

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Yolanda F. Johnson: From Opera Singer To Fundraiser
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Transcript for 445_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190628.mp3 Processed on: 2019-07-01T21:38:46.887Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…06…445_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190628.mp3.503741039.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/06/445_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190628.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with Hemi Diocese Eah, if you blindsided me with the idea that you missed. Today’s show from upper Singer to fundraiser Yolanda F. Johnson’s classical opera training, informs her fund-raising practice. She’s the founder and president of Y F J Consulting and the first African American president of Women in Development, New York. She’s with us for the hour. Tony. Stick to Hello from Boise were sponsored by PURSUANT full service, fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dot m a slash Pursuant by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy text. NPR to 444999 I’m very glad to welcome Yolanda F. Johnson to the studio. She has nearly two decades of experience as a fund-raising expert and professional musician. She is founder and president of Y F J Consulting and the first African American president elect in the 40 year history of women in Development, New York. Her company is Why? F j consulting dot com Women in development is at wid And why dot or GE? And she’s at Yolanda F. Johnson. Welcome to latto Johnson. Thank you. My pleasure. Come a little closer to the mic. Okay. Classically trained opera singer. I’m surprised your your voice. I’m singing. You’ll hear everything. I’m speaking way. Make it to that. No, I wouldn’t put you. Okay. Um So Congratulations, President. Elective women in development with New York. You begin your term on July 1st run day. Yes, that’s awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. So timely. See, everything in your career has led you to this day on non-profit radio. Indeed. Everything that we’re gonna talk about and coming up culminates here. You’re at the pinnacle. It’s all downhill from here. It means it’s all downhill from here. I’m sorry. Uh, okay. So, uh, your Nebraska girl I am. How did you find your way from Nebraska? Thio Professional upper singing. That’s Ah, that’s not a typical trip for Ah, Nebraskan. Well, not necessarily so, but, Ah, we all have our own paths. I began with music probably four years old and that was piano first. And then I started to sing in church, Actually, Ah went to get a music degree of performance degree and undergrad in Oklahoma. Went to get a graduate degree of that, how to focus and fund-raising Arts Administration and fund-raising and then sold all my worldly goods and moved to New York. Because this is where you can do everything for singing for singing principally originally or fund-raising or something else. Interestingly, I never did. Fund-raising. Some people always have day jobs or you see performers and they have other jobs or surgeries or something like that. Hospitality. I’ve always loved both. I’ve always loved music and have always loved fund-raising. And I’ve always had them in my life simultaneously. Okay. What does it mean to be a classically trained opera singer? What? What is that what it means? I worked really hard with lots of teachers. Toe learn proper technique to sing opera and classical music. Uh, opera and recitals, Art song specializing spirituals as well with the underground railroad. Um, well, say a little more about that. What about spirituals in the underground realm? It I mean, you’re performing those now? Yeah. You have an album called Feel the Spirit. If you’ll feel the spirit. Yeah, and I have a concert lecture called a spirituals. Experience like that. Spirituals experience, spirituals experience, a concert lecture. So that’s talking. Singing? Yes. I teach people about the hidden messages behind some of the music, the spirituals, some of the things they meant with the underground railroad. Okay, Okay. I haven’t seen a lot of opera. Um, my, the pinnacle of my opera attendance was probably I saw Aida in Italy at the battle out at the Baths of Caracalla. Okay, which is an outdoor. It used to be a bathhouse in ancient days. Now it’s ah, it’s a performance space. And I was traveling in Italy. I just stumbled on these tickets from a booth on the street. You stumbled on this, too? Yeah, they were. Well, I had to pay for them, but I stumbled on the booth That was selling the tickets. Just said I eat a counter. Colin, Let’s go. I know what kind of call is. Um, so I mean, this was a lavish mean I eat It takes place in Egypt. I know you know that, but for the neophytes out there, uh, you know, thanks, marchenese. And there were there were all kinds of animals. There were camels. I think there were tigers on stage, like 100 and 50 people. I mean, this was a lavish. There were live animals and lots of people. It was amazing. It was amazing. It was a beautiful night. Um, anyway, so, um, have you performed in our you know, I have not performed. It’s the only one I know. Okay. I remember this was years ago. I don’t know, but I know it involves a queen and love and a mistress, and each of the plot of a lot of just like 90% of opera. Okay, Um, now you’re still currently you’re still performing? Yes. Yeah, you have some. You have a show coming up? I do. I have a show in August of Gian Carlo Menotti’s The Consul, and we actually put it in contemporary times. So it sparks dialogue about the immigration debate. Okay, um and we’ll say it now and then. We’ll remind listeners at the end, Where can they see the council? They can see the consul. I’ll be Magda, Magda, Cyril in that production at the amphitheater at the Hudson River Museum in Yonkers. It is not upstate. It’s just the suburb Yonkers. Yeah, well, right. For New Yorkers, that’s upstate. Yeah, but it’s not upstate eerie and buffalo Where? Upstate. Okay, but for geo centric New Yorkers who think this is the center of the universe, that’s you need a passport to get to Yonkers. OK, so if I don’t If I forget, you remind me that little pitching for that at the end to um So now you’re, um before we get to win. So opera and singing informs your consulting It does Y f J consulting very much. What’s the, uh, what’s the influence their of singing over fund-raising? Well, since you know, as I mentioned, I’ve always had a love for both. I found this intersection that makes me so excited. And it’s using performance practice in Philanthropy in and fund-raising. I realized I was at somewhat of an advantage, right, because, uh, I knew how to get into character. I knew how to breathe. I knew how to get through things that make may make other people nervous. Um, by using the things I had learned as a performer and all the world is a stage, I have a workshop that I just launched a month or so ago called All the World’s a Stage and it deals with that. It helps people. It coaches them through, um, being on that fund-raising stage and using performance, practice, toe succeed and excel. So we’re talking about overcoming the anxiety of face to face meetings, uh, training sessions, taking in-kind of public speaking, making me ask, making the pitch, knowing howto pivot if I’m talking to you and it’s not going quite right knowing what to say next, that’s improv improv. Yeah, uh, interesting. Because I was trained. I was. I was coached. I guess years ago when I was getting started, Public speaking, I don’t feel like I was very strong and my coach was a jazz singer and she brought in some elements of jazz, which is largely improv on. And then we thought this was incredible. She and I worked together for a couple of years, on and off, and then she felt like she had done everything she could to help me, and she recommended I take improv classes, and I loved improv so much instead, taking one class, I took four classes, like in a year. There were three month classes. I think I could come back to back improv at UCB, the Upright Citizens Brigade here in New York City, and that really she She did take me to another level. But then improv. Just the confidence of walking on stage with a scene partner with knowing only one word like knowing your first word of your first sentence and relying on your scene partner or team. And even if you’re not confident faking it until you make it getting into character, taking that breath, walking out there and just doing it, giving that performance done whatever it is that the stage is the board room, if it’s on the stage, you’re always on stage, right? Pretty much in life. You want to live an authentic life, but you also want to be prepared and be able to navigate. All right. So let’s, um, let’s take our first break and then we’re gonna talk a little more detail about, uh, some of the things you just ticked off some of the some of the, uh, singing lesson performance lessons that specifically that inform your informed fund-raising and speaking etcetera. OK, little detail pursuing you could check out their new podcast go beyond It’s hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin. You know heart because she’s a friend of non-profit radio. They’ve been sponsors for a long time and, uh, tell has been a guest on the show. Ah, a couple of recent episodes of Go beyond our Optimize your fund-raising events. That’s where uh, you want to start in events and you used to do events and I still do a lot of even okay on also self care for leaders. You’ll find that at pursuant dot com slash resource is And, uh, let’s go back to upper singer to fundraiser. OK, OK, so it’s a little more detail about I mean s o I riffed on improv. But what are some of the specific, uh, skills that you can bring from performance toe help fundraisers? While one thing in particular, I think, whoever your audience is, if it’s 205 100 people in an auditorium, if it’s your board of directors, if it’s some major donor prospects, um, you know, always being prepared, nothing will save the day like being prepared proposed. So you have two from the version. You nothing’s gonna get you by if you don’t prepare. Um, but once you have that, there’s a certain peace of mind that comes. And then so you understand your audience and you want to make sure that there’s a level of comfort between you and them with, especially with American audiences. Um, we don’t breathe a lot as native speakers of English. You ever notice? Well, have you ever noticed that you’re talking and you’re just having this conversation with somebody? Maybe not you, because you’ve done improv, but a lot of us other people were just talking and then suddenly take a really deep breath. Yeah, sometimes on the show, I think everybody’s here is my breath of, like, some kind of Godzilla something? Yeah. You take a huge breath because you haven’t been breathing. Okay, you don’t want to walk around breathing too much, But you want to relax, right? Because your audience, actually on the subconscious level, consents when you’re not breathing, and it makes them very uncomfortable singing or speaking. If you’re going to long, they’re like, Oh my God, she hasn’t burghdoff. I’ve also done stand up comedy along with improv, and the audience can definitely sense fear. Maybe it comes from breath. I don’t know, but they can tell when you’re nervous, and that makes them nervous. And your material could be fabulous. But they’re scared for you. So they’re not laughing the way you want them to. Yes, it’s like nervous. They can smell your right. I mean, audiences consent. So you got okay. So be prepared. Gives you confidence. You’re not fearful. People don’t sense your fear. Right? And then you just know what you’re doing, right? I’m having a conversation with you. Have done the research. You do. You’re prospecting as a fundraiser. You read your lines, you learn your music as a performer. Be prepared, whatever it is that you’re doing. And then that gives you that peace of mind. So I’m having a conversation with you where I don’t necessarily just have bullet points in my mind that I want to cover. I have them. There’s back-up. But I can have a real authentic conversation with you. Right? And and from that comes hopefully dollars and cultivation of relationships and augmenting of audiences. Um, anything else we can touch on Besides, Okay. So preparation, preparation without breathing are there breathing out. Do you go through breathing exercises with clients. Yes. What’s a breathing exercise? We do one. Sure. I’m trainable. Do I need to stand up for it Way? Pretend I’m standing cause then we gotta just a mic and everything. Okay, But I’m standing. So whenever you take a breath, the proper breath is not a shallow one that just goes straight out front. Right? It’s a breath that’s barrel shaped. We have these muscles between our ribs. Wireframe. Everybody talks about the dye from, but think of your not necessarily untrue. But think about your intercostal muscles, right? That’s the one that connect the ribs to the spine. So your breath should be barrel shaped, not shallow. There you go. And into the shoulders, like up, up, up. It doesn’t have to be effective just because deep and then you control it out. Whether or not I’m sitting there and I’m about to perform or if I’m about to ask you for $10,000,000 Tony, you take that breath. Then I can look you in the eye and we can have an authentic conversation. Okay. Did that help? Did you notice the difference between the shallow and the also the pacing of your the way you were talking to? Yeah. Together. Yes. Okay. Like you change, you can change the mood in a conversation through pace. Exactly. So And pace is very closely related to breath. You can get people’s attention with silence, like you built in a little silence. Not awkward, but there’s some pauses. You could get people’s attention that way. Yeah, I did that. I stand up trying to get do that some time to stand up, take a pause like every second. Doesn’t have to be filled with syllables, Right, Because in the audience starts getting stressed out. Okay. Okay. What? Thank you. You’re welcome. Um, this is very good. All right, So this is the intersection of performance and on dhe fund-raising, and of course, you’re right. We are sort of constantly performing and fundraisers, all the mauler, whether you’re in a board meeting, whether in a 1 to 1 meeting, and I may not even necessarily be a solicitation. Just trying to get to know someone, make them comfortable so that a couple of meetings from now you’re gonna ask them to be a step up for the campaign or for the dinner or to be a major volunteer or be a boardmember. You know, whatever it is not only about dollars. Whatever ask it is we’re going to because you can’t just ask people unnecessarily immediately for money. You want to cultivate that relationship, and you want to be asked again, or you want to have your invitation accepted the next time so you can continue that process. And if it’s awkward, uncomfortable, you’re lowering the chances of going to get any mail. Yeah. You get an email after a call, right? You get a voice, you leave a voicemail, get an email. That’s about that usually bad sign. Um, okay. Um, let’s all right, let’s talk some about weed. 40th anniversary of the first black feet up. Well, they’re all females. First black president of weed. Congratulations on that mountain. Um, what’s ah, what’s coming up for? Weird? This is a big anniversary year for we do. It’s a huge anniversary year. I happen toe. Just love this organization. I don’t just say that, um it’s been ah, really big factor in my fund-raising career and in my life. And it has some amazing women that are really running this town as faras fund-raising is concerned in the tri state area. Really? And for our 40th anniversary, we have lots of wonderful things planned new programming. We have a really robust programming schedule. We’re gonna delve deeper into some issues that we haven’t necessarily touched upon before about the experience of being a woman in the field. Like what? What are some of those issues? Uh, well, we’re actually gonna have a conversation about the role of men. Okay. You know, uh, and we’re gonna look holistically at the Wood woman. And who women are in the development field and embrace the role of men. I mean, like, I could snap size that I can summarize it in a sentence. White men have all the power. Well, we’re gonna talk about that. Okay? Maybe you should come to that session. That’s very interesting that you say that I wasn’t gonna bring this up. Um, but I will. Eso Years ago, I tried to be a speaker at Wood, and they had some kind of policy. I know it was written. You are just Ah, er de facto. But they weren’t. They weren’t bring in mail speakers. Well, I’ll put it this way. Would is open. Wit is really smart. Okay, I will. I will say that not just because I’m a better organization, but we’re dealing with some really highly intelligent people who make on really good decisions for the organization where it’s at whatever period. But what is it with this one when they wouldn’t? Well, I don’t know that they blew it. They just made a decision that was best for the patient. But that being said, um, we our mission is to empower women in the field, whatever that means in whatever way, um, is appropriate at that time. And so, in this particular season, we’ve been around for four decades and, ah, we find the value in having that conversation about empowering women. And what does that mean? You know, how can this whole village of people in philanthropy and power women in the development field And so, um, at that particular session, it would make a lot of sense, possibly for you to join us. Us. My committee’s list way have witnesses. Okay, I would love to. We’re gonna send out live Mr In Love with your money or in Manhattan right now. But I also want to make clear that they don’t know they’re not to be men in the room to talk about dealing with male power. No, not not. Not at all. But we, as women, have talked about it for a long time. And now we need we want to look at it from a different perspective. And not only that, but again empowering women. So we have programs around professional development skills based, um, wellness. You know, we’re gonna be introducing that this year. We’re going through a rebranding, so we’re gonna launch that. Ah, remember meeting in September? Eso just lots of really wonderful, exciting things. We also talk about leadership, of course. You know, in the trajectory of a women and development members career, uh, how to assess that. And then we have this amazing network of women that are so supportive. There’s a sense of camaraderie with wood that’s just unique is with national. And this is the New York chapter we’re talking about. Or is with New York unique with geever imminent development. There are other chapters, but there’s not a national body that oversees us. Okay, but there’s a chapter and others would Greater Boston. Um, there’s one in New Jersey. There’s one upstate and actual upstate. Not unless you think there’s running around Westchester to, um and, you know, we’re actually doing some research to really discover. So if, um, your audience is brought right over the country all over the country, So if there are wood chapters that we may not know of, we want to talk to you, actually, because we like toe toe, have a conversation with you about getting together and working together. Um does would you mentioned the network does does with encourage mentor ship. You must we do we have an organic mentor ship that happens? I’ve had several really, really pivotal mentors that have come through with that have taught me so much. Um, and I think that we all find those relationships. It’s why going to our networking events going to our programs. You end up developing this circle of colleagues and really friends, Um, that it lasts for years. Yeah, it’s crucial. I’ve had lots of guests talk about it, and I’ve experienced it myself. Um, mentor ship. It’s very important, and that’s one of the beautiful things about many in leadership with with our board of directors phenomenal women. Uh, and I don’t say that I don’t give free compliments. Um, I mean it when I say that, and they are so open too, you know, spending time with young professionals with other people if they have questions really championing. And again, we all go back to empowerment of women in the fund-raising field. Is there a coronation on Monday? Monday, July 1st is our coronation event that we should be attending at the Cipriani or Oh, uh, you know, But we just had our woman of achieve that lunch. Johnny, did you okay a week or so ago. Um, you know there isn’t it? It’s a quiet transition, but, uh, but nonetheless enthusiastic. What is your first official act as president? My first official act. I already have a task list for Monday of some things that just need to get done. I’ve been working for a while, actually. Our outgoing president. I’ll give her a shout out here. Brooke Bryant, um, wonderful person and leader and, uh, Brian of the Kaufman music. She’s a doctor development there. And so I’ll just be looking forward to a lot of the things that I’ve started implementing. Really as early as January. She was very supportive. We started a system that hopefully I’ll be able to continue of allowing the person coming next to begin the planning process so that they can be ahead of the game before that January July 1st period. Sounds like you had that advantage. I did. And how long is your term? Two years. Two years? Okay. And 2020 is the 40th year of which is that right? Through this is our 40th anniversary year. But we’re gonna have ah ah, birthday anniversary bash in January to celebrate that we’re entering that no one will sit at the Pierre Hotel. Cipriani, would you like to sponsor about sponsoring? But I might come. Where is it? What were you doing it? Those details will be available later. We have a lot that we’re launching at the meeting in September. Okay, so January General January. Miguel in general. Not big gala, but big celebration celebration. Okay, um, as an events person, I’m very careful about that word. That g word piela means that it means a certain certain expectations. 1000 human-centered anabolic at the world over story, Right? Right. So, events, um, do you Do you still enjoy events I love even still. Do you still like putting them together? I mean, I know it’s not your practice, but you still like being the organizer of events On a personal level, I think I planned my first even when I was six years old. Okay, two years after you started music so late bloomerang events. All right, Um, and I personally, I love to love people through that they’re being bringing them together through, ah, common bond. A mission Just, you know, an affinity for something with delicious food and for what was right for you mentioned food? Yes. Food enjoin. I think our great lubricate er’s for a room. Yeah, you know, just it’s that sensory thing. Yeah, it’s a sensor thinking a sharing Its A shares were coming together with a table not necessarily sitting around it but the buffet table. Or if we are sitting down together, it’s sharing a space. That’s why exactly, And for a non-profit, it should have that same sentiment. I think you know, we’re all what makes it special. Is that your coming together to celebrate? It’s a culmination of them, you know, belief in the organization’s mission. Um, it’s not just the party, but it is a celebration. You know, Um, yeah, events. I have a hard time doing it. I just the details. Like, Does the bunting match the flowers? You know, things like that, Um, I don’t have a lot of patients for So I’m grateful that there are people who enjoy doing it. And I love campaigns. You know, Those are my focus areas with my practices, events and campaigns. And I happen to specialize in anniversary campaigns that culminate in an event. So, you know that marries those two things at the anniversary of the anniversary, as you’re doing with wood should be celebrated over a long over over a long period, right? Plan these things in advance? Yes, I mean, one night, like a one night thing. 40th 40th anniversary night. And then it should be multiple activities right through a year. Exactly. Ah, And so it is the 40th anniversary year. That’s why we’re starting in 2019. It’s the year and then it’ll culminate next year, and there are lots of things planned. So we have. We’ll have our woman of achievement luncheon again next May and ah, then we’ll have the celebration in January. But everything this year, You know, we have thematic concepts across a year. A lot of the time this past year was women in philanthropy, and this coming year is gonna be focused upon being around for four decades and what would has meant to the fund-raising field. And, Ah, and where it goes from here, what has meant a lot to women in the field. We have some real pioneers, um, many of whom are still around and still supportive of the organization, and we’re really appreciative of them. Got shot. A couple of them. Oh, see? And I’m like, I know I will, but, you know, I’m not really somebody out. Right? And then you’ll feel better me do that disclaimer. But I am that type of person that loves to give people individual attention. And then I’m like, Oh, wait. Next week on your show, you mention these names. You’re about the best in-kind. I put her on the spot. So she did not come prepared, but name some pioneers who were members of wood. Uh, Linda Hartley. Okay. I know her. She’s been on the show. Yeah. When she came out with her book When this amazing, Um, Shirley Jenks, who you also know surely very well done. Some work with our Shirley Jenks in J e n ks dahna in here in the city? Yes, argast. Holman has a past president. More group. She says she has a relationship with Nebraska to OK, she’s on the board of the university and rescue. Um, we have a current boardmember who just co chaired, uh, the woman of achievement luncheon this past year. Jane. Carlinhos, A beautiful person. Uh, and then Oh, my God. See, now, I don’t know Susan Yulin. You know Susan Ulan Koshi. I know my favorite people on the planet. I think I know her name. They recognized? Yes. Um, but just generally for non-profits, too. Planning in advance of your upcoming anniversary. You know, if it’s your 50th year or some organizations you know, 125th year, you want to start planning that a couple of years in advance, whether there’s gonna be what’s it gonna be is gonna be a fundraising campaign or it doesn’t have to be, But it’s a good hook. Well, for whatever it’s gonna be, you should start planning out of major anniversaries, I think two years in advance or so That’s a good time line. Yeah. Gives you timeto think ahead and be creative. Maximum advantage of eggs out of a big news hook. I’m a piecemeal er by nature. You won’t really see me dive into something and complete it all at once. I like to be ableto work on it and take a step back. Go back to it. Have the daily experience of your life in form some of the decisions that you make. You know, you keep living life and things happening. You’re like, you know, I’ll go back to this and maybe I’ll try it this way. So, um, so what is definitely We’ve been planning ahead and we’re excited. It’s a life practice. It is piecemeal. You say piecemeal. I would say life, it’s a life practice. Come back to things. Um okay, Um let’s, uh let’s take our break. And when we come back, I want to talk a little about your experience as a black woman and fund-raising and ah, survey that we have, um so hang on there. Okay, great. All right. Thank you. Don’t walk out. Um Where are we now? It’s Tony’s steak. You know we need to take a break. Were Wagner CPS because they’ve got a webinar coming up, it’s on July 11th. Engaged and effective, not for-profit governance. All right, so this firm is auditors, so they know all about governance. How is yours? Doesn’t measure up. Are you getting the most out of the expertise and the creativity of your board members? You sign up at wagner cps dot com. Click Resource is That’s on July 11th. Now time for Tony’s Take Two Hello from Boise, Idaho. I was just there for a long weekend, visiting dear friends. Um, and I recommend Boise on. By the way, it’s Boise, Boise. I mean, you don’t know this boy, See, but it’s not Boise for you East Coasters. It’s Boise, Boise, Idaho. I learned just like it’s Oregon. Not Oregon. No ive the Oregon at the end of Oregon. Um, that little bit of a digression. So, Boise. What about it? It’s got mountains, beautiful mountain range, snowcapped mountains in the winter and the spring, even when the temperature is is more modest. Down below that beautiful, snow capped mountains, they take their beers very seriously. 16 brew houses in Boise. Now, I did not get to sample all the monument to a couple. I can shout out Powder powerhouse, a jus powerhouse. Very nice place. Um, 10 barrel, which happens to be downtown. Those air to that we went to there was 1/3 1 I can’t remember. They also take their food very seriously. If you go downtown around where Around where? 10 barrel is 8th 8th Street and Main Street. Lots of restaurants and other brewpubs and and, um, breweries not serving food. Right along eighth and main. Lots of serious restaurants there. And now I don’t mean serious, upscale. Just very good food. Reminds me of Portland a lot. In that respect, they take this food very seriously. Um, what else about Boise? Oh, just drive 10 minutes. 15 minutes. You’re out. You’re way out of the city. We visited a winery. So, um, I’m recommending Boise has ah travel destination, and there’s more in my video. Um, and you will find that at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony. Take two. Now, let’s Ah, let’s continue a little more with Yolanda F. Johnson and, uh, opera singer the fundraiser. Whoa! Look at the bursting. Oh, man. When we get the live lister love, we’re bursting. But we’re not doing that now, okay? Bursting. That means there’s a lot of bursting with life listeners. And we’re on Facebook live too. Oh, I guess I should do is I’ll shout out All right. Aunt Mary and Mary Bob Largent. Hello, Rose mary-jo video. Love to see you. Thank you for being with us on Facebook. Give us give us a little give us a little love on Facebook and I’ll be happy to shut you out. All right, So, um, s O The power in non-profits is maintained by white men. They’re they’re overwhelmingly the board chairs, the board leadership, the CEOs, the C suite, uh, senior fundraisers. What’s been your your experience as a black woman doing fund-raising in that culture? Well, coming from Nebraska, how’s it going? And, uh, it’s interesting that it is a national issue, is it not? You know, no matter where you are, even in a place as diverse as New York City, that’s still our reality. And, uh, it’s obvious that, uh, philanthropy would do well from continuing diversity in my experience as an African American woman in the field. You know, You know, this year we did a diversity. Brooke and I did a diversity and inclusion task force for wood because we were looking at the room and amazing women. Um, but the room could be a bit more diverse, you know? And so we wanted to You think about that. And one of the first questions was, you know, is the field already diverse? Does it exist that way? It’s just that people may not, um, come out and aren’t. It is necessarily feeling is welcome for whatever reason, or, um, are they just not there? And so, because of some of these studies that have come out recently, I was I spoke a case conference on diverse diversity and fund-raising in Indianapolis in April. And that was one of the things we talked about Is diversifying that pipeline for fundraisers because you don’t necessarily see yourself. Did you have you come to any conclusions whether it’s there, there are there is greater representation in fund-raising, But people are not coming out or there just isn’t the representation that we’d like to see. Both. Okay. Yeah. I think there was more the ladder that just not just not reply. It’s about your It’s both because we have to make those efforts toward diversifying the pipeline. We have to look to the future. We have to look to see what’s happening now. We have to stay self aware and just aware in the profession. Um, and that’s the thing. You know, inclusion is the exact opposite of tokenism. So sure inclusion means that you’re naturally, organically there. You’re appreciated for what you’re bringing to the table, and when you don’t see diversity, sometimes that doesn’t come to mind. So one of the things wit is gonna dio is really focus on that this coming year. And, ah, just make sure it’s on our mind, You know, if you have an opportunity to invite a speaker or toe work with different people in partners, Um, is there someone who’s just disqualified who may be a little more diverse? Um, thinking fairly, you know, they’re just disqualified again. Like I say, it’s not tokenism, but just making sure that’s on your mind, because when something’s not on your mind, it’s, um it doesn’t exist. Okay, right. So, consciousness awareness consciousness, Yes, Critical first step, but necessary, but not sufficient. You know, they need to be action. They need to be conscious. Action? Yes, not just policies, not just tokenism. Yes, I’m outcome oriented person. So I believe in the process. But I’m not interested in staying stuck there. So we have some definite recommendations that our task force is made to the board of directors that we’re gonna be implementing in the in the coming year. And so just tow elaborate a bit on my answer to your question. So, yes, there are fundraisers of color in the field, but as the cause effective study shows, you know, Yeah, um, mentor ship professional development, because you know that we’re still underrepresented. There’s more work to be done to get those, you know, professionals of color, all of the support that they need to survive into thrive and at the same time, work to be done to develop that pipeline so that we continue that into the future with great consciousness and in being intentional about it. I know that I personally have been paying more attention to this just within the past two years or so, so but I don’t know if that’s s Oh, I see. So I see more conversations about this, but I don’t know if that’s because I’m participating. Maura. Maura, I’m thinking about it more. All right. Walk. I won’t, um, Or if the conversations really are happening more frequently and there is greater awareness than there was three years ago. Do you? What’s your sense of you? Do you think? Do you think there’s, uh, not not saying sufficient awareness or or action? But you feel like there’s more activity around diversity equity and inclusion now than there was just like three years ago? I do, yes, and strategically. So you know, I’m a strategic thinker. Meaning what? Uh, there’s been a lot that’s been going on for the past few years, but now people are really buckling down their understanding, those exact facts and figures and metrics that they want to capture. And then we’re talking to each other more about how to move that forward. There was a great event, um, a week or so ago on June 18th and was held at the end of the CP and we there’s a committee, a host committee. Ah, I was on it, um, one of the lead researchers for the study was on it, Um, the A f p person who’s involved with their idea programming, Um, people from case. It was a pretty good host committee of us. And I’m sorry if I’m forgetting anyone and then on a barber barber as well who’s ah, noted phenomenal fundraiser. We all got together to get the fundraisers of color together in New York City. And, you know, it was interesting because honest it to me. We’ve been doing this in D. C forever. I can’t believe, you know, like, it’s interesting that New York hadn’t done it yet. And so we did. We got it done. We got together, um, divided. We fall united, we stand, and so we’re aware of each other more aware of each other. Now, instead of being siloed and in a vacuum of ourselves, for whatever reason, we can come together and work together and push everything forward, move the needle. Yeah, well, that moves that leads to empowerment, thinks that we’re working together. Okay, Um so now your your personal experience as ah, as a fundraiser, you feel like that’s ah anomalous for an African American woman? Um, somewhat I you know, I’ll give the greatest shot out of all to a woman named Lori Cronan from would be remiss if I didn’t mention her name. Ah jokingly call her my would mom. Sometimes she really brought me in to the organization and and introduced me to so many different things and people that have to do with fund-raising. But it takes a village, no matter what the color that transcends color lines. It takes a village of people sometimes to pull you up to support you, to help you get that professional development and to help you move forward and to encourage you. Um, it’s something that’s on my mind for young women of color, of course, in the field, something that personally is important to me because I think it does make a difference when you see someone who looks like you, just like, um, not on Lee within the field. But even within your organizations, you know, um, that kind of had gone over my head at first, and then I had a boardmember. Mentioned that to me where I used to work and they said, You know, a lot of these kids are seeing you and it makes a difference because they think that the executive offices are like the big bosses in the office is up there in the executive director and all that and the fund raisers and philanthropy. That’s a whole other issue within it, you know? Do they really understand that this is a viable profession for them? You know, first, the profession had to get the respected deserved. Yeah, And then because, you know, we work hard and we’re educated in this, and a lot of us have degrees that air focused upon this. We’ve studied the science of fund-raising, and it should be fully respected. It used to be thinking that this is the first event planners, right? They’re just out. There have been so many slapping backs holding her hand out, and it just comes It’s like, No, no, no, no. We work very hard. Um, and so you have to have that first. And now we have to diversify. And we have to really consider all of the different issues within the field. Um, the woman who you, uh, said you’d be remiss Lauria, who gave you a guidance coach mentor? Is that a white woman? It is okay. Happens to be yes, but I had, um, some really wonderful African American women obviously, uh, who have been integral to my life. I had, you know, a good balance, but, um, it’s sharing the power sharing the power of Orden. It’s important to have role models and mentors of whatever ethnicity, nationality? Yeah, we all have to work together because if you’re there and if things are imbalanced in the first place than if white males are really, you know, at the pinnacle of power, then you know. And what role do white females have? Our females of whatever color. But you have to reach back, and you have to help people. Yeah, That’s why I say I share the power. Yeah. Um okay. Um, so you’ve had a, uh you’ve been fortunate, and you’re and you’re very blasting. Obviously grateful. And I want to do everything I can for all of the president of Wood. Now you can lift up others. Yeah, um, and they’ll see ah, black woman in power at will. Yeah, that’s me. And I think that makes yeah, it makes a difference. Let’s talk a little about the this cause effective study Okay. This is, uh, money, power and race. The lived experience of fundraisers of color. Um, are you familiar with what they did? I mean, there’s speak to what they did, what the process was. Just interviews, et cetera. They did, Ah, lot of indepth work. Judy and Cynthia, if you’re listening, this is the shout out to you that the executive director of cause Effective and Cynthia bradrick, who did a lot of work on that, and she actually engaged me. I was interviewed for this. They worked very hard at getting a diverse array of professionals of color to answer and to participate in the survey. I was, ah, reader at the end as well. Um, another wonderful person soon. Ill omen. Um, I know he was a swell with They have p and, ah, I’m very happy for them. I’m very proud of them. Of the work that they’ve done. This is a very important study, and I think it’s gonna be helpful. Helpful tool if we don’t set it away, You know, you have to keep these things out and keep remembering. Like the strategic plan that goes on cause effective is a terrific organization. We’ve had guests on. Um, Greg Cohen comes to mind. He’s been on a couple times. And then someone who, Uh oh, now I feel bad. Someone who retired out of cause effective. She’s Greg Coin’s neighbor in Brooklyn because I was out there. I was at their summer party line last year, and they shared. There was a back shared backyard thing. Um, it’s not. It wasn’t Judy, though. I feel terrible now. She’s retired, so she probably doesn’t listen. Well, nobody listens to this show. E thought you 30,000 with Yeah, well, you just told me we’re interesting. We’ll fake it to make it figured to make it that way. Um, okay, let’s take our let’s take our very last break, okay? And then we’ll talk more about the more about the survey. Okay, study text to give. They’re five part email. Many course dispels myths around mobile giving. These do not have to be small. Gif ts. They can easily be gift in the hundreds. The donations do not have to go through the donor’s phone company. That’s a that’s a common practice that need not be because the phone companies typically put a cap on the gifts. You don’t have to go through phone companies. You want to get the email? Many course over five days. You text NPR November Papa Romeo. I didn’t say that. Quite right. My Air Force days November Papa Romeo, not Papa Thio Text NPR to 444994499 All right, now we got to do the live listener love Steve Cook give you a shout out on Facebook Steve Cook joined us on Facebook And, um, let’s start abroad. There’s just so many I’m not even gonna use. The language is like annual haserot Comes comes a ham, Nida, etcetera. We’re just gonna go through where everybody is. Seoul, South Korea, Denmark, Jakarta, Indonesia. Tashkent, Uzbekistan Who you’ve been with us before? His Pakistan is not the first time. Not every week. Try to make it a little more regular. There was Becker. Stan, would you please try to be? You should be with us every single week, but no live. Listen. Love to Tashkent. Hoochie Minh City in Vietnam. Um, Porto Alegre, Brazil Whoa! Tehran, Iran. Tehran has been with us before. Yes, not the first time. Glad to have you back Live love to Tehran. on to Toronto, Canada. And now we made it to North America. So let it’s bring in, uh, New York, New York. Three people. We got multiple listeners. Looks like three while ago. Right here in the city of New York. Gillette, New Jersey. We’ve got Brooklyn, New York, in We’ve got Clifton New Jersey Wallkill New York. Woodhaven, New York. Bellmore, New York. All right, Staten Island. Staten Island is in Yes. Welcome Staten Island. Live love to Staten Island. So who’s not with us? Bronx and Queens Chicken. Maybe they’re maybe they’re masked. You know what? They could be masked. I’m sure that I’m sure Bronx and Queens are with us. So live listener, love, live love to you. Thank you so much for being with us. And for those of us on fate those of us those of you with us on Facebook live love to you as well. And the podcast pleasantries to the to the over 13,000 that I keep saying it’s nowhere near that, but, uh, no, we have 13th out over that thing. 1000 podcast listeners. Um, listening in the time shift. Wherever you squeeze us in on the weekends, you binge Listen, you spend Sunday listening to hours of podcasts on end Thank you. Pleasantries to you. I’m glad that we’re in your podcast library. Pleasantries to the podcast listeners. That’s one of my It’s almost like a therapy. Oh, it’s almost like the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, the pleasant pleasantries to the podcast Listeners podcast pleasantries and lively sabelo I’m a big fan of ah, big fan of Ah, liberation Liberation, What did you what was the little phrase you just said? But but But the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue Yes. Is that a little exercise right before you go on stage, isn’t just tow annunciated like a said native speakers of English. Sometimes when you’re, uh, enunciating on stage, it could be difficult to decipher what they’re saying. And so, ah, lot of dip bungs going on and what we think is overdoing it. But that’s what it takes for the audience to actually hear what we’re saying. It does the lips, the teeth, the tip of dung. Okay, what do you do right before you go on performance? Right the minute before your first appearance on stage. What do you doing As a singer? As a singer, I meant as a as a Well, I guess there’s any kind of performer. What are you doing in that last minute? Um, I’m saying a little prayer, okay? And I’m getting excited because I’m ready to share this with the audience. Your blood pressure’s a little high, right? Sometimes, but not really. Yeah, I’m pretty Chill. I’m I’m ready to go do it If I’m prepared that I said I will never be that person backstage like, Oh, my gosh. I know I didn’t read any of this stuff, but I sure hope it goes okay, that’s bad. Terrible. Um, and so I just It is what it is at that moment, right? And so I just get excited and go out and share it. All right. Well, thank you for sure. Well, prayer to yes. Definitely prayer before. Um, Okay, So the cost effective study was was it was interviews. They were surveys. Lots of personal interviews. Yes. Yeah. People of color. Remember to stay close to Yeah, there we go. Okay. We won’t hear everything that you say. Um, so they learned some things. Um, why d I is important. This is interesting that you’ve mentioned earlier. We’d said we’d had a diversity and inclusion task force Didn’t include, uh um quit equity. Uh, it’s the i d. I Doesn’t matter. I mean, we’re shortchanging people cause you didn’t include the e’s. No, not at all. I guess it could have been a debt if, but it’s a d t i f. Um, the equity is inferred in that. It’s just that it’s not called a d. I think, and people have different thoughts and opinions on what each word means. You know, some people don’t like diversity as much anymore, and they rather focus on equity. Yeah, I’ve heard. Yeah. Alright. It’s like LGBT Q plus. Now we put the plus until right? It’s all inclusive. Yeah, If you’re not LGBT or cute, you’ll have to just be in the plus. Okay. What did you say before? D t d t f d I t f diversity and inclusion Task force. Okay, we have jargon jail on non-profit radio. I hate to sound imprisoned even for a short in for a short term. Um, so we know, I think we know why it matters. Um, you know, interesting Make making explicit that money is power. And for fundraisers of color, you know, they’re they’re seeking money from the people who have it, which are largely white and male. So that’s a that creates a dynamic for fundraisers of color that, um, white fundraisers don’t have toe. Sort of we’ll deal with overcome, depending on the opinions of the people trying to get the money from well, and I want to add to that whole diversity discussion Donors of color, you know, they’re out there donorsearch and tapping into them, you know, just like we have toe ah, work on the pipeline. We have to support people who are already in the field, and we have to think outside of the box. And remember everyone who’s been blessed with, um, the ability to be a philanthropist. And what does that even mean? Now, you know, when you I think that it’s so pie in the sky, but it’s not. It’s right in front of you to be a philanthropist in many ways. You know, the Indiana University Women’s Philanthropy Institute. We had a partnership event with them in May, where they revealed Some of the women give study and, you know, adult into, you know, how do you define being a philanthropist? So we have philanthropists of color that need to be tapped into as well that are, um, Kim be called ignored. Sometimes I think you find that you feel like we’re not reach The community is not reaching out donors of color wealth, wealthy folks of color. I think it’s a complex issue, but I think I could say yes to that in some ways. Um, but remember that a donor of color, um, we’ll also have probably had advert in life experiences as well. So, you know, it’s We’ll all have. Yes. Okay. I feel like we’re not We’re not We’re not getting it. So I’m surprised that that you find that, uh, because if we’re if we’re trying to get support for our organization, I mean it auto come from anybody who has the means. Exactly the means to support us. Yes. Money is color blind. Amen to that. Um, okay, that’s an interesting insight. I never I have to think more about that. Pay more attention that I’ve never I’ve never thought about that. All right, um you’re full of good ideas. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Ah. Okay. Um, So I think we understand why the d ay matters like we’ve flush that out. So? So some of what they they say something interesting. Fund-raising reflects and magnifies the racial hierarchies of our culture. That’s sort of what was scratching out, right? You know, um, it’s a you know, fund-raising is there’s just inherent, irrespective of people’s color. Uh, there’s It’s a fundamental power subservient relationship. You have money, and I’m asking for it, right? I mean, I do fund-raising, I do plan e-giving fund-raising. People of wealth have money and number. I’m pursuing it. So there’s your definitely pursuing people that have a certain amount of Yeah. Yeah. Well, now, modest people of modest means could do plan. Gift to That’s true. Let’s not forget, Okay? Actually, west, like anybody could put will request for 1000 or $5000 in there, will probably And that goes to the same point of What does it mean to be a philanthropist? You know, if you’re giving $500 whatever you have to give, you’re still helping a cause. It matters a lot of people don’t think of themselves as philanthropists, but they’ve indeed they are. It doesn’t really matter. I mean, they’re supporting organizations. But people who write $20 checks, $50 checks, they don’t they don’t think of themselves as philanthropists. And I think that’s what I used trying to get people to think differently, especially with women. Donors toe value yourself and to understand that contribution that you’re making to society through whatever the size well, they understand they’re contributing. What what’s the importance of? You could educate me again. So I’m trainable. Just any ideas? What? What? What’s the importance then of them recognizing themselves as philanthropists? Because it empowers you in a different way. When I see myself a certain way, um, it allows me toe think differently. And when I’m making those decisions, ah, it might allow me toe to get involved with an organization on a deeper level. Ah, and bring in my network. You know, we could talk about give and get so it can. It can open lots of different doors and just change the way that people think about themselves and about the ways that they give, so we should be encouraging our donors to think of themselves as philanthropists. Yeah, including the 20 and $50 donors. Yes, you’re a philanthropist. And we appreciate your gift and that. Well, there’s always that. Yeah, I’m just trying to distinguish the philantech. Think of yourself as a philanthropy. Yes. And then, you know, it’s that strategic thinking. So And, you know, it’s that same story of the whoever it is the janitor or somebody who passes away and leaves $5,000,000. A very modest life. There’s a 40 year old car they were driving or whatever, and then they have millions of dollars to leave him. You never know you can you never. You can’t judge a book by its cover. And so you never know what’s going on. You treat everybody with dignity and respect and appreciate their gift. And you never know what network they might bring in our, um, people they can introduce you to. Yeah, that’s all true. Yeah, it’s just a philanthropist thing. Getting getting your modest donors small dollar donors to think of themselves as philanthropists. Interesting. Ok, um all right, so this is the, uh, kruckel about the magnifying, the racial hierarchies, and we just have a couple minutes left. All right, so let’s leave the survey. That’s enough of that survey. It was a great service. So again, it’s money, power and race. The lived it experience of fundraisers of color. It’s published by cause effective, which is, I believe it’s called effective dot or GE. And now that you have the name of the survey study, you should have no trouble. Obviously finding it on dhe. Check it out. Okay, Um, a couple minutes left as, ah, professional woman in fund-raising your own practice. What would you like to, uh, would you like to leave our listeners with? Well, um, I just like to reiterate how honored I am to be leading within this 40th anniversary year. I’m excited about continuing the work of my practice. We already talked a bit about events, and I also specialize in campaigns and in going in and assessing what’s happening with small and medium sized development departments and helping them to get to the next level. So I look forward to continuing all of that work. Um, and I also look forward to continuing singing have a vocal workshop coming up in a couple of weeks And then, of course, the consul again. Yes, I mentioned right argast. 10. Where is that? In Yonkers, at the amphitheater at the Hudson River Museum. And it’s gonna be It’s deep, you know, using music, using art as that medium to spark the dialogue, the conversation, the thought about these current issues you cannot make the You can’t make this up, though The libretto has not been changed its 70 years old, and it could have been on the news last week. Really, it’s fascinating. Where when does it wins the opening? It’s a one night only thing. It’s August 10th 8 p.m. August 10 2019. Yes, if you’re in the New York City area, check yolanda johnson dot com. All right, that’s who she is. She’s Yolanda Johnson. Her company is Y F J Eyes Cos. At Y f. J hyphen consulting dot com. Women in development you’ll find at W I d n Y dot or GE. And she is at Yolanda F. Johnson and thank you so much. Thank you. This is a pleasure. My privilege. Next week, there’s no show. I hope you enjoy your holiday time off whichever day or days it is somewhat, officers seem to be having trouble like, do we give them the Thursday off and then make them come in Friday and then Saturday, Sunday off. Do we give them Thursday and then make them coming Saturday? Whatever Hope you have some time off, you certainly have the Thursday off anyway. Enjoy will catch up with you on Uh oh, that was a good breath. We’ll catch up with you again on July 12th. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dot m a slash pursuant Capital P by Wagner c. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to 444999 Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Steiner, Brooklyn, New York, With me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show beyond potential Live life You your way on talk radio dot N Y C. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and the small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. If Theo best designs for your life, start at home. I’m David there. Gartner, interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern time as we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us. 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Nonprofit Radio for November 16, 2018: Asking Styles

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Brian Saber: Asking Styles
In fundraising solicitations, one size does not fit all. There are different styles and personalities. Brian Saber sorts them out to make you a comfortable, confident and effective fundraiser, based on what you bring to the process. He’s the author of the book, “Asking Styles.”





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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, feels so good to be back in the studio after six seven weeks away and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure buba analgesia if you paint me with the idea that you missed today’s show asking styles in fund-raising solicitations, one size does not fit all. There were different styles and personalities. Brian sabers sorts them out to make you a comfortable, confident and effective fundraiser based on what you bring to the process. He’s the author of the book asking styles i’m tony. Take to my farewell. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant by wagner. Sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us on by text to give mobile donations made easy text. Npr to four four four nine nine nine what a pleasure to welcome brian sabre to the studio he has personally solicited thousands of donors as a director of development executive director and consultant over thirty years. Working with non-profits, he needs training programs and speaks nationally about asking styles to help people understand and embrace their unique strengths. As fundraisers. You’ll find him at asking matters dot com and he’s at brian saber. He’s a kindred spirit. We’re going to find out what that’s all about. His book is asking styles revolutionize your fund-raising. And i’m so glad to welcome him. Brian. Welcome to the show. Well, thank you, tony, for having onto the studio my pleasure. A little closer to the mike, the internet. Intimate with that thing. Okay. All right. Now, back in two thousand eleven, almost almost to the day was the november of two thousand eleven. Seven years ago, i had andrea kill stayed on. We talked about asking stiles. Um what? What? What’s happened? What’s evolved since then? Seven. In these seven years. Seven years? A lot. When andrea was on in twenty eleven, we had been quote live for about a year and meaning the asking matters site had been up and we had been promoting the asking styles. And so now we’ve had another seven years to delve into all of this material and what the first thing that changed probably about twenty thirteen, i think, is we change the results a little bit. So you might recall from twenty eleven tony that there were something like thirteen results, you could be one style. You could be two styles. You could be three adjacent styles, or you could be all four. And one of the things we found was that it wasn’t giving the staff and volunteers enough direction in terms of what to do, we found that too scattered, too scattered to say you’re all four or guo your these three didn’t give people a framework or a roadmap forward. And so we we actually tinkered with the assessment, and we narrowed it down to eight results. So everyone has a primary style and a secondary style. Okay, so the primary style is really what you lied from in the secondary gives you a sense of which of these two characteristics on the asking style graph is your dominant characteristic, whether it’s your introversion or extra version or your analytic or your intuitive side. And so having that as a guide gives people more to go on, right? So they’re still not locked into a narrow. Did you narrow your focus is that you focus it without saying you’re in this box or you’re in that box. We wanted people to have a little leeway there, because sometimes when you tell people this is exactly what you are, they say, no, that’s not what i am. And we didn’t want that right now. Andrea is no longer with asking styles and asking matters. Well, yes and no. We are no longer partners. I bought her out in twenty thirteen, but she is now. You bought her out. This was not a force. Was this jeff sessions? A kind of buyout? Are you trump out of session? In fact, andrea, i’m your request. I give my resignation and by and let you buy me out cause i get her on the phone. Yeah, i get it. I’ll get to that available. Did she say she’d be waiting by the phone today? Now she’s actually booked, but but all i did inquire are i know no, it’s graphic. She killing to me and said, i know what i think you should take it over. Andrea is one of the foremost creators of incredibly creative, sorry to use that twice ideas and products. She has brought so much terror field and she loves developing new stuff and constantly is doing so. She has endless undertaken to do it. But she said, you know what brian and andrea not go get? She’s a go getter, right? Talk about all the things we’re gonna talk about. All these right? Kindred spirit. Go get it and show you she’s gone. She’s gone and she is no getting rid of years older than me not to say anything to you what a chunk of your mother she is. And she said, you know what, brian? You can run with this for a long time. I’m not going to want to run this business for a long time. I like creating the ideas. I’ve got places to go. Exactly. And she has. She’s created more new things. It’s incredible. So and it actually inmate sent. So yes. So i took it over. And and but andrea is one of the four experts at asking matters. So she is actually still providing content, doing webinars on dh and such. I have a couple of people who have particular expertise is entree is one of them. So we’re still involved ethan and dear friends, ok, yes, i know. I do know, you never ask a question. You don’t know the answer. But now i do that all the time. Lots of questions, i don’t know answers to, um all right, so we’re going to get to all these, uh, all these different personalities, all these different asking styles, all the different styles, but we got a lead into it. So what a premise of the book is that there is no ideal way toe ass. And we’re talking about fund-raising solicitations. They asked the solicitation, that’s what prism. Everybody knows that. But make it explicit. But there’s no one way to do it. There’s no ideal way everybody brings something different we’re going to capitalize on. There’s no set way. That’s the best. There are best practices in the field. Yeah, but so much of it is about personality and relationships, and that means every one of those is going to be different, and you need to bring your true self and you. And that’s another theme throughout the book, all right. Authenticity and want us to be authentic. In our ask absolutely every step of the way. Because otherwise you can’t form a true relationship of the donor. And if you don’t do that, then the gifts they’re just transactional what we want his donors who really care and believe and want to be involved for the long haul. And that’s only gonna happen if they believe they’re having an authentic relationship with with the fundraiser in the organization. And can’t they tell us they tell him? Absolutely, mister, um is corporate, and it’s not your true self right talking to them, i say all the time. If you if you give your board an elevator pitch and expect them all to go out and give that same exact pitch, unless some of them are amazing actors, almost all of them will sound phony, right? You want everyone to talk from his zoho nick’s own experience in his or her own words. And why is this better done in person than any other method? When we’re in person, a level of empathy develops between us that just doesn’t develop some other way. When we’re sitting across from each other and looking in each other’s eyes, we care more about each other. We’re more vested. We want to come through for the other person. So there’s this bond that you just don’t get when you get a letter in the mail or an email or even a phone call. Because that voice khun b disembodied the reason i prefer to have guests in studio that, you know, body language is another one inflexion, you know, so special, you know, like i’m giving you the finger right now. So you know that, you know that it’s not going well. Okay, so we wait. We take a first break. Very good. That’s the figure i’m giving you. This is the one i didn’t say that. Did i say middle fingers that i say hold it. Maybe i’ll forget it. All right. I’m going up. The index finger pursuing they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take the secrets from the fastest growing startups and applied those startup growth strategies to your non-profit. It’s free as all their resources are. You’re accustomed to that? It’s on the listener landing page. You know where the listener landing pages? You’ve heard me say it repeatedly. Repeatedly. It’s tony dot m a slash pursuant. Remember the capital p for please. Now back to asking styles. All right. S o much better done in person. All the reasons that i prefer to have guests in studio. I mean, i’m happy to have call, but i’m very glad that you were able to make it in from moline, illinois. Att for am or so what demanded it for am work airport? Because we have this huge storm. Yesterday, it was crazy. And i was lucky to get in because when i landed at newark, there were thousands of people sleeping on the floor i couldn’t believe it was doing here. And people still trying to get onto planes at three. Fifteen. And then when we came through chicago, i did, which was its own madness. Yeah. Ok, that’s not a good way. Okay, so, midway, i mean oh, here must have been a madhouse. Also, it wass everything was a madhouse. Yes, everything fell apart. Transportation was yesterday not surprising. I’m glad you made it. Thank you. Checked in to do it by phone, but i considered renting a car. If i couldn’t get out and driving from davenport, iowa, it was it was fourteen hours, and it turns out i would have gotten home about the same time. Really, you could’ve made it a job if you could have got if you couldn’t write. So asking in person is better. But it’s hard. Yes, it is. It is. It is hard. Just feel better about why it’s worth the difficulty that we’re putting in. No one makes their biggest gift by direct mail by phone accufund by special events. If you want someone’s biggest gift, you have to develop a relationship with them. Over time, no one gives their biggest gift right off the bat. It usually comes over time as they get closer to the organization, as they understand the organization better. And and especially in this day and age where i think we’re starved for in person, right, so much is happening electronically. It makes the in person even more special. But it’s virtually none of those names you see at the top of the donor roster or on a building or a room. None of those gifts came from a phone, a thon or direct mail appeal. They came from building these relationships, so and eighty seven percent of all charitable gifts come from individuals, so almost told to give a compliment of it. You include family foundation’s yes, family foundations in there, as well as the individual gifts and the bequests there. And those total up the eighty seven percent. Wow, you did your homework. I read this book, i think. Very good. I’m disappointed that you’re impressed. That here is shocked. I’m disappointed that you’re surprised that she always put together, for god’s sake, i’ve been at the studio for six weeks. Of course, lycan youth rallied for one show. Excellent. It’s all downhill from here for next two months so well and and your subscription on itunes going going down after this week? Yes. So eighty seven percent of all the gifts come from individuals, and the biggest gifts come from asking in person. So if you want to fulfill the vision of your organization, if you want to have the biggest impact your organization can have, you have to go out. But ask individuals in person. But there’s a risk of you might take personal when there’s a rejection. You know how important it is to the organization or you over you over perceive how important it is. It’s life or death. You know, there’s a lot of personal risk in doing it. Face-to-face there certainly is, and depending on our style, more risk than not. Yeah, and i know we’re going to get into that in in a bit. I will share. And i i share with everyone. People think because i have been in thousands of meetings and i’ve raised tons of money and all my organizations have been very successful with the results that i am this stereotype of a fund raiser that i’m something most people can’t be, that i’m slick and confident, and i get in those meetings and i ask for big gifts. And if people push back, i push back. And i i don’t take rejection personally in all of this stuff and and there are might be a few people like that in the field. But i’m not like that. I’ve had all my own issues to grapple with all these years, and i like most people fund-raising not because we think fund-raising is the most exciting, wonderful thing we could ever do in our lives. But because it makes a difference, none of us grow up saying i want to be a fundraiser. I i asked this question every time i train, virtually no one raises their hand. We we we get the bug for doing something good in the world. We care about the arts, education, religion, a medical cause, whatever it is. And then we’re not a doctor or a musician or whatever, but we realize there’s a way that we can help. And that’s by fund-raising, too, so that our organizations have the resource and help musicians and doctors exactly. And social services, social workers. So we most of us come to it in a circuitous fashion. Not because we have some stereotypical skill set that people think of fundraiser has tohave. What we really need to have is the ability to form a relationship which almost all of us do have right. There are some people who’d rather antisocial let’s go about it at different in different ways. Exactly. Think pacers ways different levels of anxiety, etcetera. All right, let’s get i want just one more point. That is that after thousands of solicitations, i still confined it daunting. I can still be anxious. I can still fun for in a meeting and i still take rejection personally, even though i know i’m not supposed to thank you for opening up. I admire that. Thank you. Alright, let’s get into the styles. Now there are two acts. Do you know the plural of access? Because you worked at a c actually. Exactly right. Axes. Now axes. X s has the distinction of being the on ly word in the english language. That is a plural. For three words is the plural for acts a x axe axe e and it’s also the plural for access. Ex maxis, according to read its bona fide. I read it online. So it has to be true. It must be true. Must be true. All right, so let’s get to the axes. All right, listeners, i’m encouraging you, teo. I mean, you could you can go to asking matters dot com and isn’t there? Isn’t the chart there you’ll see? Right? You’ll see the chart. Okay. Don’t go asking matters dot com. You’d go there. But if you if your podcast listening with the vast majority do, uh, just you need a pencil on paper? It helps. It helps. I mean, you can try to visualize it if you insist, but it helps to have a piss peple a piece paper and pencil draw. Draw a vertical drop vertical axis and what we put on the vertical axis we put you. Look, don’t you guys to look? He’s looking at my teaching e. I wrote the book is look at my sheet people less. Well, where you bonem five. Well, where’s andrea? Didn’t you get her in? Get her bath started here. I think you made it. I think you made a blood thing is a big opportunity to buy you out. It’s funny. I was listening to her podcast and she was so articulate about how you lay this out when i need her to come here today and say that i was safe. She is our first date, so you have to drop both axes. Okay. Did you need the x and a y? Ay, right. One’s vertical once horizontal when they intersect. And they do the middle in the middle. Middle. Not like i wouldn’t make a bar chart from the origin that’s called the origins and mental virgin, so above ha sergeant must sign ok on on that y axis is in is extra version and blow the x axis. Is the introvert okay? That’s the vertical estonian. Why access and accept. Right? But, yes, the vertical line has introvert on top and no extra vert extra proton from atop an introvert. You right on the bottom, karaca. And they have the look you’re not okay. And on the horizontal, i’m a visual learner. I think it’s a link in my own material. Looking my own book. Damegreene goodcompany i didn’t bring your book. My copy. Your book. I guess that was a mistake for you. I have one. Okay. If i have to take it out and then on the x axis landing to the left and right of the vertical line, you have thie, analytic and the intuitive. So analytical is on the left. Correct and intuitive goes on the run. Right. Okay. Can i have your two lines and your four words? Right? You do? Okay. S so we know that you were in a couple of spectrum’s now. So which is which? Is this the style that you like that you seem to always start with? Go get her. You seem to know a mission control’s sorry. No, no, no. I’m sorry, rainmaker. I go from top left and i go claim make right, you stop. Rain, right. Go get our kindred spirit control. So in the tommy off here, tony top lefty, i wish you we gotta get gets to know their material. I’m in diamond barrister. You never know. I live in breach of it every single day. No, we wouldn’t. We wouldn’t. Quite right about that. Thank you. Ah, andrea was articulate. E missed that sometime we’ll have parents, so in the upper left, you right, rainmaker, correct on then in the upper right, you write go gets the go getter, correct. And then in the lower right, you write kindred spirit. Yes, you do. That’s you. That is me and you. We think we’ll come back to that. We’ll come back to that. I have an announcement about that. Okay. And in the lower left, your writing mission controller. Correct. Mission controller. Ok, um what is it? Just give us the overview of these. These four, like sure. How do they relate to each other before we get into the individuals? And how do they relate? How are they different? How are they different? Yeah, well, the key difference. The easiest way to think of the difference is through the core question. Each of these styles asks very good when trying to figure out what’s important to me. What’s going to drive me? The rainmaker top left, the analytic extroverted says. What’s the goal? It’s very quantitative. It’s something you can calculate. You know, when you’ve reached it, i’m going to raise a million dollars. I’m going to close ten gifts. I’m going to do glorious golden lorien. Did the ring make goal oriented? Top right? Go get her, go get her asks. What’s the opportunity? Like the rainmaker, the go getter is looking in the future. But the the go getter is looking more globally, less specifically. What is the vision? What is possible? Reduce poverty in right moline, illinois. This khun b so excellently provoc eliminate poverty, eliminate hunger, save the whales. It’s that type of looking vision for the future picture opportunity wise, right? The kindred spirit bottom, right? The intuitive introvert is saying, what moves my heart? What am i feeling? Because the kindred spirits decisions are all personal, they come from the heart and what they’re feeling inside and the mission controller says, and that’s the bottom left. The analytic introvert says, well, what’s the plan, guys? Because it’s okay to have goals and opportunities and a vision and to feel something. But if we don’t have a plan, we’re not going to get there. It needs to make sense. You need to see how you’re going to get from a to b. This is your detail person. Mission controller. What’s our plan for getting as you just said. Okay. Okay. I love that. All right, um, so let’s talk about then. Let’s let’s make it a little personal before we get into the more abstract, you know, planning your your asks, etcetera, etcetera. Dahna. So you’re you’re you’re an avowed kindred spirit. Yes, i now what’s your secondary mission controller? Mission controller. Ok, you went the other way for me. Okay. Okay. Ah, so so it’s a little more, in essence, that’s you since your kindred spirit. And we would you share that dahna say a little more about the kindred spirit. What? Sure. What do you love about it? And what? What? What makes it a challenge for you? Well, i what i love about it well, i’m embracing myself for who i am. Hard right? We all should embrace ourselves for who we are. I think developed developing this stiles has allowed me to embrace myself and be comfortable with who i am is a fundraiser and a person, and to say, you know what? I am feelings oriented. I take things very personally. I have a big heart. I want to help everyone. I want everyone to feel good. I want to be heard. I want to be seen. All of that is very important to me, those relationships and those feelings and on, and that’s what i lead with. And when i developed relationships with donors, they’re very much based on that there, very personal, and they’re very warm. And that’s that has been my avenue to success over the years as much as anything. Building those relationships very personally. Having a mission controller secondary, however, even helpful talking about the one what you have to overcome as way. We have to need to overcome his kindred spirit. What are our challenges? Well, no one loves rejection, and we do face a fair amount of it in fund-raising, or at least the there’s that fear that it will happen. And for kindred spirits, it’s personal, right for others. Okay, i got rejected, but it was about the donor or it was about the system or they didn’t believe in the vision or whatever. When we put ourselves out there and someone and we really believe we do it because we believe our heart is in it and then someone doesn’t want to support it doesn’t agree. It’s very hard for us. Did we do something wrong? That’s so upsetting? They don’t they don’t want to support what i believe in, and i believe in it so much. How can they not believe in it? It’s it. And i was telling this, ah, this room of fundraisers yesterday in davenport, iowa, that no, that yeah, i’m never going to get that past that you’re never going to get past that feeling, right, and you just have to you just have to embrace it. And no matter how hard i try not to make things personal, they are personal. So i have to just say their personal. What can you do that they’re going to be personal? Said earlier. Even though you know that’s not the way to feel about it, right? It still happens, right? And hopefully, just by knowing it. And some would say under overstaffed ing it being ableto look outside myself and say, okay, i can see you’re that way except it and we’ll figure out howto work with that, that it’s much better tham thinking i’m lesser because i take yeah, don’t write not lesser, just it’s fact based. We were not making judgment value judgments here. But you know, there are value judgments in society about that, and i do think kindred spirits are often judged. Introverts are judged to be inferior to extroverts, though there’s so much talk about this recently, and susan kane has this amazing book on it on the power of the introvert rights called quiets. A fantastic book. Quiet, quiet! Yes, the power of the introvert. I think it’s in a world that can’t stop, can’t stop talking something like that. But in fact, introverts or not is highly regarded, right. And i don’t think intuitive czar as highly regarded as is analytics, which is why everyone keeps thinking of the rainmaker, the analytic, extroverted, as something special and better. I think there is a bias in some ways towards and away from various people of different personalities. But we don’t have to take that bias to ourselves. We’re the person we don’t have to well, judge ourselves. Correct. Based on what society probably is judging, we have to block out the noise and believe in ourselves. Let’s move over to the left and you’re the your secondary style is the mission controller. That’s ah s o. That’s the plan that you’re the planner? Yes. How do we get there? So it’s funny. I details. I make lots of lists, and i always think they need to be better organized. And i’m always taking pieces of paper and trying to put them together and make cleaner lists. But i do have lists, and a lot of people don’t have those lists you have. Do you keep a list of all the lists that you have? More or less your deep into? You sure. You sure? Mission control. Your secondary secondary is definitely secondary. It is myself. Yes, but when people need someone to plan something, they often asked me to do it. I end up in charge. I don’t really want to be in charge. The kindred spirit doesn’t want to be in charge, but i know i can do what i have those skills and people need me to do it, and i want to come through for them. So i do it. But i’d be very happy if someone else would do it. What do you need to overcome as the mission controller? One of the challenges for for that? Well, the big challenge is giving up control, being able to go with the flow and not being thrown off when things veer off course, which can often happen in a meeting with a donor, you go in your you’ve got everything planned out. You’ve done your research, you’re going to hit these topics. You’re going to ask the turn to these questions and five minutes in, they take the conversation in a different direction. There could be a curveball or they ask a question you weren’t considering or you find out they have less time than you thought they had or whatever it is. And for the mission controller who’s planned everything out so carefully and meticulously, it’s difficult to tack in another direction. A lot of what you said about, uh, the relationship building and and the personal solicitation comes through in the work i do in planned e-giving. I mean, if those relationships aren’t so, if the donor relationships aren’t solid through the years, then there isn’t going to be a gift in their estate plan. Or there were times that land if you’re if you’re purely transactional in all in all respects, as people are giving to you through the years, and i don’t care whether it’s fifteen dollars a month or five thousand dollars a month or so are five hundred five hundred thousand dollar gift. If you’re treating it as a transaction through the years, then the likelihood of a plan to give being successful plan give scylla station big. Successful is much, much lower. Absolutely plan gifts do sometimes come by non personal asks. I’ve closed lots of charitable gift annuities all through email, so stations and mail and phone calls. But that’s where the relationship was rock solid, exact and the person was never treated transactional, e or if they were, it was rectified and they felt like they had a relationship. It was relational with with the charity. So that’s the big spectrum of, you know, from your monthly sustainers through toe plan gift. The ultimate, the ultimate gift hyre. So i was seven years ago. I was, ah, kindred spirit and a mission. A mission controller. Yes, seven years. November two thousand seven. I took the assessment on, but you gotta go to just take the assessment, asking matters dot com. It was thirty thirty. Questions. Yes, thirty very simple questions like eight eight eight ten words per question. Mean brief questions. Yes, no boom. It only takes a few minutes asking matters dot com not asking styles dot coms don’t go asking style dot com. That’s a point site. No, i don’t know what’s there, but actually that will do. Redirected our site to oh, good. So you do own asking sound. I thought, all right, all right, but just go directly. Sure we do. So you don’t have to go through pornhub goto asking matters dot com. Take the assessment. Thirty questions. It’s really fun, even if you’re not a fundraiser if you’re not a fundraiser. But but i have said in that interview with andrea that i aspired to be a kindred spirit and go get her so i was disappointed in my outcome. Come on. I want to be now taking it very recently this morning i wanted i wanted to be. I wanted the results to be fresh. Um, i’m still a kindred spirit primary, but now i’m a secondary go getter. You are. I evolved or i just answered the questions to the desired outcome. No, but i didn’t do that way. No, i did it honestly. So i have evolved. So we just have, like, thirty seconds before a break. But you can evolve, right? You know, i didn’t know you knew. Didn’t you answer the question differently because she just thought about it a bit differently today than you did seven years. We don’t evolve. No. We learn how to live in the world. On we learn we learn how to embrace our strengths and deal with their challenges. But we are who we are. I think we’re wired a certain way, but we weigh, manage our lives. We manage all sorts of relationships with all sorts of people. And and and certain skills are become more important in certain parts. And in our lives, we take leadership roles. And so we we need teo, focus on the differences of skills. And so we’re using different parts of our toolbox. But we are still who we are, right? Maybe i pulled the top. Maybe i pulled the top shelf off the toolbox. It’s dangerous for me to make two references on, because the first time i used a phillips head screwdriver, i had to go to the emergency room like, all right, we got to take another break. Regular cps. Are you not satisfied with your cpa firm? They’re not paying enough attention to you. Are you thinking about a change in twenty nineteen? Look at wagner. Check them out. You know where to go. Wagner cps dot com. You’ve heard that. Then talk to you. Coach tomb. Their partner. He’s been a guest twice. I trust him. He will be honest about whether wagner can help you. You gotta weinger cpas dot com now time to tony’s. Take two. I need to say farewell to our affiliates. This is the last show for our affiliate stations throughout the country. The affiliate family just hasn’t grown. The affiliate stations are not procreating, if you will, at the rate that i need to make the investment of time and money worthwhile. In that program, i’m enormously grateful to the affiliate stations and listeners that we have. Thank you. Thank you for being with us stations and listeners. I thank you. I just wish you had more siblings. I needed you to procreate more. I tried to get more siblings, but it takes a lot of time. And they’re just not it’s not coming through. So for our affiliate listeners, of course not. Proper media is always with you. Always available to you. Um, on itunes on google podcasts on stitcher andi. Lots of smaller wraps that you probably have never heard of. So we’re still with you. We’re still available to you. Stay with us. You don’t have to leave. I don’t want you to. I just need you to listen differently. And i’m going to do the men of the affiliate affections first, because i i do have affection for our affiliate listeners and stations. And i regret that this has to be the last show. But affections to our affiliate station family and to our affiliate listeners. Thank you, live listener love. It’s got to go out. It goes out to jacksonville, florida lake worth, florida russia were going abroad how that happened so fast. Ok, well, we’ll do. We’ll do. We’ll combine it all, um, delhi, delhi, india, russia. We can’t see your city, but live. Listen, love goes out to the coast to the whole country. Why not? Um, it’s leadership that a little concerned about. But to the people the life goes out. The love goes out another tampa, florida we got tampa lakeworth and jacksonville. Wallington, new jersey, new york, new york, new bern, new bern, north carolina live love out to new bern, korea. Can’t see your city gets anything. Cities, korea, netherlands live! Love goes out doesn’t matter. And seattle, washington and connecticut live love to each of our listeners. Thank you for being with us and the podcast pleasantries toe are over thirteen thousand listeners podcast each and every week. I’m telling you, it makes it so much easier to get good guests like andrea kill state. I mean, like brian saber, when i can tell them that there are thirteen thousand listeners. Alright, people put up with this. I wouldn’t i would walk out. I’d walk out. I’m getting my amusement for the day when they know that there are over thirteen thousand listeners each week. It helps with sponsorship too. So i thank you. The pleasantries to our podcast listeners. I thank you for being with us. All right, all right. So i learned a lesson. We’re not evolving. You were pretty much pretty much born into born into our asking styles quadrant and and that’s it. And we just apply different skills as needed, right? We’ll have a least a little bit of all of thes, and we call on it when we need it. We do it right, right. It’s not as if the rainmaker can’t be carrying insensitive and the kindred spirit can’t be strategic and goal oriented. It’s a matter of what we lead with, right? What? What’s court of us that dictates the styles. But there’s a bit of all of this and all of us. Let’s apply this to our donors, because where we know that we now have a style. And if we don’t know what, we’re going to go toe asking matters dot com and find out what it is. And then we’ll get the book to asking stiles. Just get the book. You could find the book asking matters dot com and then, oh, so but our donors have styles absolute. So if, if our donor happens to be in the same of the same style is us or at least on the same end of one of the axes you know next to, because the next twos they tend to work well with each other, don’t they? The next, the next two’s work well, and the well, they can tell you have a certain commonality. Commonality. I think the analytic intuitive pieces is particularly important, their meaning. If you’re an analytic, a rain maker or a mission controller and your donor is a a rainmaker or mission controller, you’re talking more of the same language. And if you’re both intuitive, sze go getters or kindred spirits, you’re talking the same language. Right, or whether it’s facts and figures or it’s a heartfelt story. There’s just there’s a bit of commonality there, and to me, that’s actually the mohr important parallel than the extra version introversion. Ok, right, ok, i think an introvert extrovert can establish a rhythm. Each has to watch out for the other. The extroverts has to slow down a little bit. Thie introvert may have to speed up a little bit in there in his air, thinking and speaking, but they they evolved a rhythm, and we’re used to doing that in society. I think the analytic into it is intuitive is a bit different, though, where i think we tend to associate with people who think like us right, whether where facts and figures, people’s people and we’re looking at outcomes, measurements and things, or where sharing heartfelt stories. So all right, so let’s start. Let’s apply this to our donors now, because if we can figure out where they are, if not if not a style than certainly what end of maybe maybe what end of different the two different axes on ly word in the english language? And as is the plural for three for three cingular’s. Then we can anticipate what they’re questions might be, what their objections might be, how they’re thinking about what we’re talking about. So how can we give us some strategies figuring this out for donors that where you have a relationship with now or someone were thinking we’re going to be soliciting? Well, we would have a relationship. Now, how can we apply? This? Could be suss this out. So there are a number of ways to figure this out. If you don’t know a donor well, and you’re going to set out to meet with this donor. You asking events, would you like me to send you any materials? Is there anything you’d like to know about before we meet and the analytics in particular? The mission controllers are going to be the most like. Please say yes. I’d love some material. Mission controllers will review as much material as you give them. They wanted to know all the facts and figures the rainmakers, the more strategic ones. But the mission controllers, everything you give them go getters are go. Getters of the most likely say, i just come talk to me now. That’s ok. Just come talk to me. We’ll figure it out so somewhat. Based on the material, whether people asked for material or not now much they asked for it. You can figure it out. Okay. God, you can figure it out. By which of your donors go to your special events o r. Or at least have a good time when they go. You hate events. Hate events. Yes. I hate gatherings of more than about six people actually. Which which is very funny, since i spend most of my life now doing workshops. First, i had two hundred people in this room sitting in the studio right now which would give a seventh in here to make you want that i’d have to leave, and then you could bring entree. And because she really likes these big total, not that’s why you’re here. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Ah, close. But it’s but it’s ironic. People would not expect that. But you’re very open about it in the book. Yes, i avoid events at all. Counterintuitive. I should say it is because i have learned to adapt. Right? I regardless of what you may think of the moment, people generally think i’m articulate and and i, i come off with a certain amount of presence and such, and i’ve learned how to do that to operate in the world. But it’s not my comfort zone, right? I mean, i was speaking to this room of people. Yesterday was not my comfort zone. Did i like the fact that i was sharing information that i thought was helpful to them? I like teaching. I like helping people be better. But i had no desire to be in front of that room or even in the room. And as a matter of fact, as soon as all the speeches were done, people hung around in the room to schmooze a network, and i made a beeline for the door. Even though i was the keynote speaker, i actually i must say i went out into the hallway because i had i have had enough. Can you share a start? My voices crack you fourteen, fourteen years old. Can you share a story when dahna thinking about a donors style helped you buy-in ah, solicitation. Anything coming to mine and put in the apse? No, i know immediately. I can think of a very significant donor at hudson guilt, one of the old settlement houses here in new york city, where i worked for many years and everything for her was about the children in the daycare and kindergarten programs, and for her it was about being in the classroom and hearing these stories about the kids. Even though she had a finance background, she never once asked about outcomes measurements. It didn’t matter how many kids exactly were being served what our goals were. She knew these kids were there, that their lives were being impacted. And and so it was all about sharing those stories and getting her into the kindergarten and the head start center clear as day. So that’s that’s an example. Yeah. All right, we gotta take a break. Tell us for pete’s sake, think of the companies. You can refer and ask them. Will they switch their credit card processing to tell us so that you can claim your long stream of passive revenue? Month after month, it’s coming to you. Fifty percent of the processing fees tello’s earns go to you every month. Start with the video at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us, then get asking the companies. Now back to brian saber and asking styles. Uh, our listeners like stories. That’s why i put you on the spot for our first story. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, this has great application that when you’ve done these thousands of sea pulsations when when? In the course of your thousands did you and andrea start start this work? Unfortunately towards the end couple weeks ago? Yeah. No, no, no. It was from two thousand ten, and so right. Well, i had i had been a fundraiser my entire career. So at the point andre and i met, that was more than twenty five years. I’ve gone through a number of campaigns, and i was always the frontline fundraiser. The person who cultivated and solicited major gifts in person who worked with the board. I did the work that had to be done. I never actually wanted to do it per se. I did it because i wanted to make a difference right now. So i did tons of that work forever. Now, since starting asking matters, i have worked on campaigns. There’s a an organization very dear to me in chicago called northwestern settlement house. It’s a it is a settlement, just like hudson guild in new york. I’m a massive fan of that model of cradle to grave service, and i’ve done a number of campaigns with them. Ron, who i talk about in the book and who even talks about his experience in the book. Ron, matt, man anderson and a shine. Yes, amanda shaw. Yeah, he’s a twenty five year buddy of mine. You guys get a lot of asks together partners, we believe i’ve been in a thousand meetings together in all this time. So the good news is the last big chunk of them came after we started this because the settlement finished a campaign now, probably about two years ago, and ron and i again were really the leads to listeners. They’re so we spent a lot of time together asking for gifts, cultivating toners and asking them. And i could see us through this prism of the asking styles, and it was really enlightening. It was enlightening because ron is a go getter. So it became so much clearer as to what he was bringing to the table what i was and the fact that we’re both intuitive and neither one of us was a leading with the analytic peace, even with our analytic donors. And you know what? That was fine. So we didn’t change anything. We did. But we embraced what we did more fully once we had this. This asking styles rupert to deal with were teasing the idea of partnering. And i’m goingto tell listeners that for insiders, brian and i are going to talk about partnering. So if you want to be a non-profit. Radio insider, go to tony martignetti dot com, get the insider alerts, then you’ll have access to the that the insider content. And in this for this interview, it’s going to be about partnering with a ko solicitor, basically, ah, and and using the styles, of course. Um, all right. How about well, s o? I feel like i’m jumping around, but going back to assessing your donors, i mean, certainly if you have a relationship, if you know the person through the years, um, that will obviously in form you’re figuring out what style they are. Absolutely. You learn their rhythm. You see whether they pause before answering questions way often talk about this the moment when you ask for the gift. And then what happens after? Well, a mission controller is most likely to pause for longer after you’ve asked to think about it. Where is the go getter is probably going to jump in very quickly with some gut response. So so as you spend more time with your donors, you you pick up on their traits such as this, right? What? The rhythm in the conversation, the questions they ask you. How many questions they ask you? Yes, right. Kindred spirits are less likely to ask questions right in the room. When i train, you’re the introverts are less likely to speak up, which means you. You have to sort of anticipate you have to try to anticipate their questions because the introverts aren’t going to be asking. And if you’re not fulfilling what they need to be favorable to your solicitation, they’re going to leave the meeting unfulfilled, and you will to write. And i don’t know for jumping ahead or whether you plan to cover this. But this is important for boards of directors as well. Latto understand the interactions of the board members. That’s the dynamic of the board, right? Because in a board meeting, the introverts are less likely to express their opinions. So if you want your entire board expressing its opinion, if you want all the voices at the table, you have to be particularly sensitive to your kindred spirits in your mission controllers, who in that large group are less likely to speak up? Okay, we may. We may come to the boy, us. If we don’t come to the board, then just by the book, for god sakes, goto asking matters dot com. Get the book. You know, we could get these brilliant authors. Well, we get these authors, and, uh, you know, semi are starting the catskill semi articulate on and, uh, and we can’t cover everything. It’s impossible. So everything so just get the book. But i will try to have time for the board because boards are big challenge. Yes, i do want to talk about preparing how preparing for your solicitation. And, of course, you know, solicitation that could be over a solicitation. I mean, there’s a meeting, but the course of the the course of that phase of our relationship could go over months, sometimes in back and forth and not this program or this program, but not that way. Or, you know, etcetera, att least implant e-giving. That’s certainly the case, and it’s got to be the case in major e-giving. Sometimes, too. Yes, well, you know, major giving to me there are two ways to look at major gifts. I think of a major gift as any gift worth the time to cultivate and solicit in some shops. There, they’re going to put a cut off, and it’s going to be those very large gifts for new programs for buildings or for plan gifts. But i to me, a major gift program is made up of all of the donors and hopeful donors prospects who have the ability to make a gift of a certain level that’s worth your time because everything needs to be customized and personalized. And that takes some time. So so major gifts could be twenty five hundred dollars gift to the annual fund, right? Your hundred thousand dollar a year organization. You’re going to go out and solicit a number of these to me. Those are major gifts and some of those gifts. So some of those gifts will happen fairly quickly with one meeting or two meetings. The bigger meet the bigger gifts. Those transformational gifts often take months and multiple proposals and bringing in various programs, staff and such donors. Advisers correct. All right, so so it’s it’s a process, yes, but so in terms of preparing for the meeting or the process, um, how do you ah, how tow us. Ah, how do we kindred spirits? Best prepare. How do we prepare? The best thing we can do is go visit the program and re acquaint ourselves with the program. It’s particularly important for fund-raising professionals because we can get very caught up in our day to day work, and sometimes we’re not near the program. Physically, we might be in a satellite office or something like that, and and and we don’t touch the program for a long time. We don’t see it in action. We don’t meet the participants, and that is critical to us because everything so personal. So the number one thing you can do to prepare is to go visit the program and get revved up again about it, because at the end of the day, all of us have to break. We’re all making our own case for support, telling our own story about why the organization’s important to us. That’s a very important piece of of the preparation for the kindred spirit. It’s it’s all going to be a personal story about a participant or their own journey. And and and so visiting the program enforces that. Okay, let’s go to your secondary. The mission controllers. How do they best prepare? They plant? They do a lot of research, much more research than the intuitive to go getters in the kindred spirits. Much more research on the donor that they will. I’ll plan out the meeting very, very specifically, even planned a meeting planned the meeting out. And how do we think the meeting will unfold? They’re more likely to have, ah, complete list of questions that they’d like to ask. They they’re gut will be to send information in advance because that’s what works for them. One of the exercises that asking matters is we asked people if someone were going to come ask you for a gift, how would you like them to do it? And how does your style impact that? Right? Well, mission controllers will often say, i want you to send me a lot of material in advance, so i can see it. And i can be prepared when we meet. So if your mission controller development officer your gut right, your natural inclination is to send a lot of material because that’s what you’d like. Now, once you get to know your donor, you might know your donordigital appreciate that you’d have to pull back on it, but often we don’t know our donors that well, so the number one thing to do is go with our own gut and our own style. So that’s how the mission controller would come here. We’re going to take our last break, and then we’re gonna come back and talk about how my secondary the go getters should best prepare. Okay, hoexter give. They haven’t email many course. Five myths of text giving debunked they’ll give you info so you can decide if this is a fit for you. The the the idea of text giving and then whether text to give fitz specifically, you hear all the hype about mobile e-giving get through that. Get the five part many course comes to you by email. Learn what you need to know. How do you get that? You text n pr november papa romeo to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Okay, we’ve got several more minutes for asking styles. Gladly. Uh, so the go getters, how would they best prepare for this solicitation meeting or process? Well, it’s funny that you say that because they’re the least likely to prepare. They winging it? Yeah, they’re very comfortable revolution. They’re very sure of themselves. And they are very good at being thrown into a situation and thriving whatever it isthe relating to various people keeping a conversation going, keeping the energy up so they tend to prepare less. What i do say to go getters is okay. I get that you’re going to prepare less than you’re comfortable. That’s fine. But everyone can benefit from from practicing their story their case for support because you don’t want to take a lot of time to tell it you wanted to be concise because of you share a lot with the donor. The donor is not going to hear what you’re saying. They’re not going to remember what you’re saying. And go getters tend to talk a lot too much. They can talk to much as a matter fact. Ron and i joke about how he can go long. He could go long, and it’s my job to rein him in and cutem uncovering the table, right? So go getters. Don’t prepare that personal story, which should only be a couple of minutes. Their tendency will be to go on and the story will lose it. So that’s the number one thing they should do. Ok, and how about finally the mission controllers? Preparation of the rainmaker? The rainmakers range, right? They’re going to want to review the outcomes, measurements and the goals of the organization because they’re going to tell the story their story through those because that’s what drives them right? The that we’re accomplishing x, y and z where sure, we’re making a difference because we reach this point and we made this difference with this many people and so forth. So they’re going to want to review that. They’re the most strategic, so they’re going to want to think a lot about where do we meet? What questions do i ask you? How do i how do i elicit certain information and a certain reaction and so forth so they’ll be rather strategic. Maybe without getting into the details the mission controller gets into. We just have a few minutes left. So i do want to talk about the board because that’s a that’s an important topic. Brian likes to ah, do his asked to the beverage. You will have to get the book to figure out why. Find out why he loves why it’s important to him to have a beverage in his ass just by the book, for god’s sake. All right, the board. So you would you would like us to. We just have a few minutes left. You would like us to have to have the board take the assessment. Absolutely right. It’s so effective. Lots of boards. What comes out of this? Tell us. Tell us due illustrated with a story. Well, i will give you a story from when andre and i were first testing the assessment. Okay? We had a small university in upstate new york. Take the assessment. The vp for advancement had his board take it. And and andrei and i looked at the results and we said, oh, no, it doesn’t work. Something’s wrong with the way the person i designed the test for us calibrated and so forth and so on. So with are did you think something was wrong because everyone on the board was a mission controller and we thought, well, statistically, that’s impossible, right? We may be there were twenty responses. So with our tail between our legs, we went back to the vp and said, we’re really sorry we’re gonna have to do more work. It doesn’t seem as if the assessment is correct. Everyone showed up is a mystery controller, and the v p said, that’s exactly our problem. Everyone is a mission control. You’re right. That is it. The dynamic is all off. We don’t have the go getters with the vision. We don’t have the rainmakers to keep us focused on accomplishing goals. And we don’t have the kindred spirits to remind us that this is about helping people and we have to have heart. So on a board, you want a mix of the styles for a variety of reasons. Committees, leadership. Well, right? I mean, aligning people to work together, deciding who, maybe who the leadership should be absolutely, and who ever every one of these organizations does. Special events, unfortunately, but you want to mission control are organizing them so the details or set right and you also want to go get her at the event. Who’s going to be really wonderful in the moment? So in some cases you might design board members to the work based on their style. But at the very least understand the dynamic of the board based on everyone style, just as you would in any behavioral analysis of staff for people in general. Ok, how about for the c suite? You see value there. We don’t talk about that. I don’t think it’s in the book. That’s interesting. I don’t. And that is interesting because i speak too many development directors who are aware of their executive director’s style and how that impacts them one way or another. And each executive director brings something different to this fund-raising equation based on his or her style. So the rainmaker is going to be rather driven right for their organization on. They’re going to like the big gifts because they want to make big impacts. The go getters will be happy to meet anyone. The development office wants them to meet and we’ll be charming. But it will be up to the development office to be strategic about that behind the scenes. When you have introverted executive directors, that could be a little more challenging to get them out. But, of course, the kindred spirit, you know, cells with the heart, and people usually really admire that. Executive director. But sometimes the kindred spirit executive director doesn’t want to make the hard decisions that need to be made in leadership on mission controllers when their executive directors can need to watch out that they don’t get into the weeds, that they don’t micromanage. So there’s value for the for the people working for the what of the c suite to know what you’re boss’s style is a way, i guess we need to encourage the c suite itself to recognize where it stands and ah, what it’s opportunities are and what it’s what it’s potential. The pitfalls are and to appreciate all its staff for who they are. Yeah, all right. We have about a minute or so left, and i want to enter the same place where we started. But authentic. You know, your authentic self. Remind us why that is so important. Using all these styles fund-raising good fund-raising the fund-raising that that leads to gifts year in and year out and larger gifts over time. And donors who really care about organisation. Though this is all based on relationships. If if you’re not authentic with your donor, your donor will smell it and your donor want to build that relationship. Who wants to have a relationship with someone you think is phony? So if we’re looking for longtime donors, we need to be our authentic cells and not worry about anyone else. Brian saber goto asking matters dot com take the assessment. Get the book which is asking styles. Thank you so much, brian. Thank you so much, tony. We planning to be here next week? There’s no show. Happy thanksgiving. You’ll be with family and friends. I’m sure i urge you make time for yourself. North. I didn’t say fine time for yourself. You never find it. You’ve gotta make time for yourself alone. Time. It’s important, even if you’re not a kindred spirit. Um, so and i have a thanksgiving. Thanks. Video. Which you’ll find forget to promote my own stuff. Go to tony martignetti dot com. I have a video e-giving my thanks to you for your support of non-profit radio. I don’t know if i say thank you too often, but enjoy your thanksgiving. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing by wagner cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com by telus credit card and payment processing you’re passive revenue stream tony dahna slash tony tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. Npr to four four four nine nine nine our creative producers. Claire meyerhoff sama liebowitz is the line producer show social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this great music is by scott stein of brooklyn, new york thank you for that information, scotty. 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