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Kirk Schmidt & Wes Moon: Inconceivable: That Metric Does Not Mean What You Think It Means Take a fresh look at fundraising metrics with Kirk Schmidt and Wes Moon. Kirk is with STARS and Wes is from Wisely. (Recorded at 19NTC)
Colleen Campbell & Jeanne McCabe: Google Analytics & Google Optimize Learn terminology and best practices for these applications. Should you trust your data? Which reports do you need? What about testing and optimizing? We cover it all with another 19NTC panel: Colleen Campbell from Firefly Partners and Jeanne McCabe at the Center for Reproductive Rights.
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Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, what an incredible 450th show last week. I hope you were with us. I’ll say more in Tony’s Take Two, and I’m glad you’re with me today. I’d be thrown into up pal Mona Riotous if I saw that you missed today’s show. Inconceivable that metric does not mean what you think it means. Take a fresh look at fund-raising Metrics with Kirk Smith and West Moon. Kirk is with stars, and West is from wisely that’s recorded at 19 and T C. And Google Analytics and Google optimize learned terminology and best practices for these applications. Should you trust your data? Which reports do you need? What about testing and optimizing? We cover it all with another 19 ntcdinosaur Colleen Campbell from Firefly Partners and Jeannie McCabe at the Center for Reproductive Rights. Attorney Steak, too. 450th recap were sponsored by Wagner, C. P A’s guiding you beyond the numbers. Wepner cps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Finale Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m, a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to DOT CEO. Here are Kirk Schmidt and West Moon Inconceivable Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 si. You know what that is? That’s a 2019 non-profit technology conference where at the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and this is ntcdinosaur Bridge is non-profit radio coverage and all of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools help non-profits Macon Impact. My guests now are Kirk Schmidt, director of Foundation Analytics Systems and operations at Stars. And he’s seated next to me and West Moon co founder and C e o c 00 of wisely welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Kurt West. Welcome years. Some session topic is inconceivable. That metric does not mean what you think it means. Of course, with the first thing we need to find out is who is the Princess Bride Fan? Who is that? Both of us. Both of you. All right. Top five movie for both of us. Top five. Okay. Okay. Um Of course, inconceivable is Now. What? What’s the name of the Wallace Shawn character? Who says Inconceivable all the time? What? Zini, Vizzini, Vizzini. He’s the bad guy. And Mandy Patinkin is Inigo Montoya. And he says, I don’t I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Is that Do I have that right? Is it? Yes. Okay. In concert. I mean, I know that’s where it’s from. Did I say the line correctly? Yes, but the But the line he’s most most famous for is my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die. That’s right. He’s looking for the man with six fingers on his right hand. Who’s, you know, Christopher Guest? What’s that character’s name? What’s that? Was Christopher Guest character’s name? Yeah, the six fingered swordsman. Yeah. No name in my mind here. God. Five. You can’t remember. I can name all the top I can have. The six fingered man. Yeah. No, he’s got a name. I think it does. Because the prince the prince calls and doesn’t call him six fingered man. Prince called him. All right. Could be I am Devi that Thank you. Wait. Okay. We can have that by the end. All right. Inconceivable that metric doesn’t mean when you think it means. Um, Wes, I like to start furthest away. Why do we need this topic? Why do we need this session? Um, metrics which drive a lot of decision making in charities across the country are used improperly. Metrics are used improperly. OK, Quite often. So you have. You have a metric, uh, that tells you something. And if you don’t understand how that’s being used, it is going to be used incorrectly. Context matters. Okay, West. Anything? I’m sorry you want I’m sorry, Kirk. Anything you want to add to that? No, I think really, The what we’re trying to do is advance the sector past metrics that have been used for decades. Two things that are more robust and Maur accurately reflect what we’re trying to do with it, which is decision making to better fundrasing. Okay, so tradition is often a mistake made more than once. Right? Okay. What is your shorts? A T shirt related to this topic. My shirts wearing a T shirt for those who don’t have the benefit of the video wearing a T shirt. What’s the context of the shirt. So So it’s Ah, it’s a little data joke. And it says there’s two types of people in this world. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. OK, that’s clever. All right, way have an answer to the president. Because the characters Ruben Ruben Wright Ruegen. Okay, I’m top five for both of you. Neither one knew. Count. I don’t think I knew that wasn’t an all right. All right, All right. Um okay, so we need to take a fresh look at fund-raising metrics. There’s a lot of mistakes being made. We need to correct things. Can we go into detail about what some of these mistakes are? I’m sure we can. Sure. So So when we get started, when we did this talk, I mean, I mean, part of it was really to find out what individuals in the audience tend to measure and really talk about those measurements and whether the worthwhile. But of course, we had our own examples. Top one being average gift. Average gift is one of those metrics that is used everywhere. And it is quite often an incorrect measure For most of the things that we try to use it for okay. Is that deeper than because averages skewed by out liars that I mean, that’s the main reason, right? So So because of the out liars, we’re using that. But But then you know where you would go to medium gift? That’s right, Median. Or you know that we talked about other ones, like trimming the average or using a winterized average way. Got jog in jail in radio for sure. You got to find this so so winterized average effectively. What you’re doing is you’re taking an outlier value. Um, and you’re you’re winterizing it. Basically, what you’re doing is you’re saying so. So take $500 for example, anything over $500 you now count as $500. So you’re taking the average and you’re basically acknowledging that, Yes, there are major gifts, but I don’t know what those major gifts they’re gonna be year to year. So you’re including them because they’re important account. But you’re not including the size of that. Yeah, the magnet, right. Counting them as a data point. Correct. And how do you Is it too technical to explain how you decide at what point you cut off and start wins arising. There are a lot of different ways, some, some arm or robust statistical means. Some could be just intuition going. You know, we’re just get cut this off in 1000. But either way, you feel that’s more accurate than average. Absolutely gift. Absolutely. Okay. It’s certainly more predictive on when you think about average gift. Uh, one of the reasons why we really care about it is, let’s say you, as a fundraiser, are being asked to raise average, get by 10%. There’s a couple ways you can go. You get one astronomically large gift and be done so that way. And we like, we like to call it the Brute Force method, which is under the Giant with a a big rock. He’s gonna he’s gonna course one person to make one large gift. Okay, Another way to do it would be to get your entire cohort to increase the size of their gift by just 10% and we call it the masterful way on, and we’re you know, that’s that sword play. The last way isn’t good for a charity. And if you took all your small donors and just eliminated them from your program. You’re giving up a lot of money. Your average would rise substantially. Hit those low wallet that low wallet. Quadrant him out. Eliminate the Miss donorsearch way. Call that the inconceivable method Inconceivable met the inconceivable method. But you know where we see this and fund-raising is stuff. Did you raise the average gift? Yes, I also saved money and direct mail. That’s right, well, and we see it quite often with retention rate, right, like there will be organizations that try to raise retention rate. And the inconceivable method of doing that is to cut off acquisition. It’s time for a break. Wagner C. P A’s. They’ve got another free webinar. On August 6th. It’s developing high impact grants. Improved your grants, we search and writing. You’ll find it at Wagner cps dot com. Click Resource Is and upcoming events. Now that’s only a couple of days away. I know that you’ll probably miss it live, so watch the archive. Wagner cps dot com Quick resource is and recorded events Now back to inconceivable. That metric does not mean what you think it means. Okay, I’m sorry. I’m hearing this for the first time. Say that again. I know it’s simple, but you got to say it again. So if you want to raise your retention rate, we know the first time ever. Really low retention. So cut off the equity. We know it’s only 25%. Yeah. Stop inquiry. Right? And so is that the right thing to be measuring fundraisers on? Okay. And fundraisers are literally measured on that. Yeah. Yeah, attention. Okay, what’s better than what we identified? What is better than retention rate? It’s not necessarily what’s better, but it’s It’s more about segmentation or or developing cohorts. Right? So we do want to measure first year donors separately from the rest of your database, and you might even want to separate further in terms of multi use your donors, those who are lapsed so on so forth. Okay, okay. This is fun. This is fun. Let’s identify some or another one that’s miserable. Been around too long. Well, not not valuable. Well, part of the problem, too, with some of these is Sometimes they were put in in other formulas for other metrics. So we talked about lifetime valuers estimated lifetime value S o f p fund-raising effective in this project defines estimated lifetime value a very particular way, and it uses average gift in the numerator. And it uses the attrition rate, which is based on your attention rate in the denominator. So and so So, basically, you’re finishing This one is bad. So So you’re overestimating your average gift, right? Because because of what we talked about before and you’re underestimating your attrition because you’re not counting your first your donors and so your lifetime value looks really big. And the problem is, when you’re using that to decide whether you want to acquire Donor comparing it to the donor acquisition cost, you’re going to believe you’re going to make more money than you will. In fact, you could believe that you’re making money and you are, in fact, losing money. Yeah, Yeah, it’s inconceivable, right? Exactly. All right. All right. This is very good. Um, let’s not. Yeah, um, we got others. Another exam is just what the session was. Examples between you brought some and the audience contributed. Was that the whole session? Effectively? I mean, we started talking about metrics in general, on dhe some good, some Something’s no like the importance of knowing the difference between the leading metric and a lagging metric. All right, we have to go there yet. Can we Can we do another dinosaur Metric? One more dinosaur matter and we do one more before we go to leading versus lagging. Mmm. When maybe you got one from the audience that you remember. I didn’t think. Now there weren’t a lot of dinosaur metrics on there. I think when we went through them, it was Maur is more talking about. What are they used for? And are they the right metric for what you want? Okay, way covered that. I think we way hit the main ones, like overall retention rate, lifetime value, an average gift, all of which are used to make business decisions. Uh, there are other metrics, I think, as you start to dig deeper, that may or may not have good effect on decision making, but they’re not used ubiquitously. All right, All right. So we hit the big three, we hit the big three. Okay, let’s go to leading versus lagging. So, what’s what’s the, uh we need to understand what the difference is. So go ahead. Explain it, Kirk. Sure. So so a lagging metric is effectively something that you learn at the end of a period of time. Where is the leading metric? It’s something that is changeable over time, and you can use it to you when you look at what it is. You can then make adjustments to it to get to, ah, better value, and then they will help inform that legging metric. So a really good example would be the number of donors you have at the end of the year. That is a lagging metric, right. Uh, so how do you find out how many donors you’re gonna have at the end of the year? Well, if you know your acquisition rate, you know how many people you’re you’re tryingto you attempt to acquire. And if you know what your retention rate is, knowing how many donors you had at the end of last year, then you can predict what the number of donors are going to get than the end of this year. So then you can adjust things. Do you do make changes to your acquisition rate or how many people you’re acquiring? Do you? Do you embark on stewardship ventures, money retention to retain donors so you could actually make adjustments that way. Okay. Okay. Um, why do we need to know? How does this fit into the bigger picture in any different way? Or this is just leading versus lagging this. How does this help us? Overall? West? Yeah. You always want to be able to walk back your goal. So let’s say, are the fictitious charity that we’re using today. It was a fire. The fire swamp trust. Okay. And the fire swamp trust is saving. Rodents of unusual size is also far a argast want from also from Princess Bride. Okay, so they needed to raise $100,000. So to get to $100,000 on they wanted to do this using mid level giving. So gifts of 1000 to maybe $10,000 in order to secure those we know. We know some things. We know that you have to talk to donors and you have to move, take them through moves, management or a pipeline. So what’s a good leading indicator and figuring out are we going to be able to reach $100,000? Well, we know that we need to have people to actually talk to donors, and we need donors to talk to, Uh and we have a lot of metrics in our history that say getting someone to qualify if they’re in my portfolio is about 25%. So we have some conversion rates between our stages on. We know that it takes about five actions or five interactions with that donor to move people through each of the different stages. So a leading indicator in getting to that $100,000 would be having 20 donors to talk to and taking 100 attempts to talk to those donors will produce one gift. So that means that if if you walk that back, this is where we we like thio abuse. Leading indicators. If you walk that back, you know that if the gift team isn’t taking enough action, that that needs to be adjusted because you will not hit your target. And that’s how we like to look at leading and lagging Lagging would be how much money came through the door today. In this particular case, context is really important. Could do it like week by week, and absolutely you should in fact you have to, because that’s how you’re gonna know whether how you doing time versus goal? Sure. And whether you need to, in fact, walk back and change one of those variables that once you have control over. Exactly. Okay, Okay. Leading versus lagging. What else we got? Well, I mean, we did talk a little bit about the future, right? And in terms of, you know, we’re at this point where we can do a lot of this manual work in terms of figuring out what are lagging. Indicators are figuring out what our leading indicators are. But what what’s coming in terms of technology in terms of how processes air computed and and what will that look like? And kind of How do we get there? All right, we’ll talk about it. Well, um, I’m in the business of machine learning for charities. Um, we’re doing a lot of leading indicator work on making using those leading indicators to predict what a donor will do next. That is one good example of what the future may look like around a prediction. So when you think of what are the variables that you’re measuring thio, maybe it’s proprietary. A couple happy to share. We have about 75 variables way we don’t have time. Didn’t they fit into three transactions? Eso previous donation is obviously one of the biggest predictors of what will happen on, and that’s not new. That’s that’s old news. I would say your best customers. Your most recent customer. I learned that in the eighties you have information about a donor, which would be, you know, Tony D’oh! Do you care about this organization to attend events? These types of things where you live economic status on then the last piece would be Theo interactions between you and the church. So those three pieces together allow us to be pretty predictive on what’s the value of your next gift? What your likelihood to make that gift on. That’s one example of what the future may look like of in the charitable sector. There’s some very interesting things happening around. Kids help phone in Canada. They are doing sentiment analysis the organization kids help phone. Okay, great organization. They help at you at youth risk krauz at risk Youth. Thank you. In crisis I am listening. You’re testing me? Yes, I waas you passed So the sentiment analysis that will predict if a call needs to be escalated. For instance, is this a very serious call? And they can do that in real time because computers can absorb more variables. Any human on bacon do that at scale. It sort of automate sort of that intuition around using metrics. So we use metrics to inform our decision in inform for good decision making an intuition. Computers could do that at scale now. Okay. Okay. Um, you had something in your description that said, uh, recognizing data. That may be problematic for some metrics. Did we talk about that data? Well, Rita points that might be that comes around, saythe out liars with average. All right, so that’s gonna throw it off. Okay, way learned that yet? All right. The lights have gone off in, uh, in the exhibit hall. Uh, and he’s 19 ntcdinosaur non-profit Radio perseveres never actually have our own lights. You shall survive long. They don’t turn the power off. We could still record, and we could still see each other, So non-profit radio perseveres. I’m not sacrificing a 30 minute segment in 18 minutes because the ambient light out okay. Um okay. Integrating better analytics into your organization’s reporting. Better analytics for your accusations, reporting move. Kind of that subsumed it, Really? And everything we’ve said, Absolutely. That’s pretty general one. But you’re holding out on us because we got more time together and you do the 75. We’ve only done, like, 17 minutes and you get 75 minutes with the view up for the for the NTC audience. So what do you not giving up? Well, I’ve got a German name, so I’m efficient. I’m going cheating, cheating of radio listeners. I’m not gonna have it. So what else did you talk about? Or maybe talk about in more detail that you haven’t yet revealed here? So what we did is we, uh the audience gave us a number of metrics very early on that they used to measure. And the nice thing is, we got metrics from all sorts of all sorts of business units that aren’t necessarily fund-raising. So, you know, we talked a little bit about, you know, impressions and click through rates and things like that. From a marketing standpoint, there were a few few that were very much program delivery, So people were talking about you know, the number of unique clients that they served or things like that. So what we did is we We spent some time going through some of those metrics and really talking about, you know, what is this measuring? Is it a leading indicator? Is it a lagging indicator? Is it both on dhe then? Going through that? Okay. So unless your host comes up with a 20 minute well, 10 minutes worth of variables that metrics that I’m that I’m preserving and committed to and then you analyze them rattle look well, well, we I mean, we we were, Unless that happens, if we one good example. Actually, I was I knew something. Would you dug enough? You’re holding out. But I’m not giving up. There’s nothing more to talk about. It talk about. Go ahead. There is S O. The audience is a little more varied than we expected. We thought it would be Omar fun fundez rating focused audience. But there’s a lot of operational folks in there. Uh, and that was intriguing to me. And we heard a number of cases where they were tracking like, number of days we have of operational funds in the bank was a metric that they looked okay. So let me give me, give the uninitiated a shot at that number of days. Number of days, days of money we have in the bank. Never heard that metric before. That sounds pretty granular like hopefully, it’s hundreds. No hope, the numbers hundreds of days. I was getting the impression it was not 100 today. Oh, maybe this is an important one. I mean, it’s like six. Well, first of all, that person needs to be networking for a job. A tte, the career center. Aaron NTC. If it’s six or below number of days, I don’t know, something just sounds weird about it. But But if you’re a tiny organization, maybe maybe this is keeping the lights on. It’s hard. I mean, from a business standpoint, it’s really about your cash flow, right? Like if we were in the for-profit business world, what we would be talking about is, is what is our cash flow? And and can we maintain it right, So so absolutely. It’s a really interesting stat from from a a charity Stemple, and she’s got such a scarcity mind to it. But if you’re in that. But if that’s you, yeah, all right, I can’t really get into controller. That’s looking. Oh, OK, yeah, yeah. As opposed to the fundraiser, right? Yeah, that’s the person who should be getting it right. Looking for a new job. If it’s the fund raiser knows that it’s 6 30 you get you’re in deep trouble. If anything, it’s a good good thing for somebody to be looking at. It’s just a matter of who. Hopefully that same organizations looking at receivables. Sure, we got We got this number of gifts in the pipeline, and typically these. This number will come through from our prospect list. So as far as you, as as we dug in a little bit on this indicator, which the number of days left is, in my opinion, still a lagging indicator, it is not a leading indicator. It is just a yard marker to say. How much time have we got left to make that a leading indicator? We then need to know how is that changing over time, for instance, so week over week, month over month, year over year, how how’s your cash flow or your days left in the bank changing over time. So if every day you look at the stat and it is still six days, then you can expect that this is actually reasonable case and that you have regular money coming in and you need to then keep walking back to get to the point where if you miss a day of doing something important that you know about it because six days from now you don’t wanna have to turn out the lights, right? So that is the exercise that that we preach about getting to those leading indicators that are your business drivers. I think one of the other important things I mean, I mean days left to somebody to some degrees is a bit of a leading because because you kind of have some some semblance of you know is the time to panic. Yes, it is. Um, and we talked about how context really matters in terms of leading indicators and lagging indicators, right? So for a stewardship person whose job it is to retain donors, retention rate might be a lagging indicator, right? They’re going to do a number of stewardship measures like, how long does it take to receipt and thank a donor on there. They’re going to try to adjust those as they go through to try to reach a good retention rate. Whereas a development officer might use retention rate to determine how many donors that there will be at the end of the year s O. So, depending on the context, depending on your job, what might be a leading indicator for one person? Maybe a lagging indicator for the other. Okay, I got your Yeah. I can’t really, uh, do a follow up question. But I understand that context matters absolutely the exact same number. Yeah. The last the last topic that we covered off was around cohort. And we haven’t talked about cooperating with you yet. Okay, s So I think I think it’s a good topic. Okay, courting is that we just have, like, two minutes left. Oh, no. Oppcoll super important cohort, please. The most important thing. All right, go ahead. Uh, you need to group people together. You know, birds of a feather segmenting segment here, Eddie would ntcdinosaur birds of a feather, right? Whether it’s knitting or stamp collecting and and that that becomes the basis of all your metrics and you only want a cohort to the point where, uh, you can still use it. So you can You can create too many segments on and have an unusable amount of data s o. You can’t consume it. You can’t produce on it like specific marketing appeals. Andi, we talked about using gift type. How someone was acquired. Eso a monthly donor has very should not be in the same cohort as a one time gift donor and a lot of these very basic things. Uh, but setting up your cohorts the right way so that their operational and usable and predictive eyes key. And that’s what I’d summarize in one minute. Okay, Okay. That was an excellent summary. I was thinking of, You know what would be a worthless cohort since we’re talking about bad, bad, like dinosaur data? Bad data. Um, age. Uh, I had some valid thoughts, as you were as you were talking. Explaining it, um, age could be, Could be a valuable cohort, or it might not. Right. It might not mean anything to average gift, but it might mean a lot to, um, potential donors to the plan giving program. Well, it might not mean something in particular cases as well. Like you might have a case where let’s say you’re an international charity and you find that certain American donors react a certain way to two things that you do. And donors in a different country who seem to have the exact same profile work completely different, Right? So So sometimes you’ll find that cohorts work in some places and don’t in others. So really, it’s about repeated testing and really, really looking to see what works in what cases? Okay, okay, West. I’m gonna give you the wrap up to this. Inconceivable the metric that does not mean that metric does not mean what you think it means. What do you want to leave people with, Oh, care about your metrics and always walk them back to their source. How, like, why’s that metric important? Take every step, break every step down and go right to the source for that leading indicator looks with leaving. Look for that leading into court indicator. Okay, that was West Moon, co founder and CEO of Wisely and sitting next to him is Cook Schmidt, director of Foundation Analytics Systems and operations at stores. Thank you very much, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure and thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC As the lights are dim, the hall is quiet, but non-profit radio perseveres. All of our ntcdinosaur 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact, we need to take a break koegler mountains software maintaining separate accounts for each fund-raising daily expenses and reporting to the board are all a challenge. That’s why Cougar Mountain created Denali Fund. It’s your complete accounting solution specifically designed for non-profits. They have a free 60 day trial. You can get that at the listener landing page. Tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now time for Tony’s take to the 450th show last week. It was amazing. And when I say it was, what I mean is, I feel it will have been amazing. Awesome. I’m looking 10 days ahead and I’m telling you what happened a week ago, which is not hard for me to say, you see, because I know who will be on the show, and I know how good they’ve each been in the past, individually and collectively. Of course, no point critiquing them as individuals when they will have been and in fact were part of our whole troupe, but not quite, in fact, actually infection, which is close to fact in the existential sense. They’re the same. So when I say they were, I mean that they will have been. And in 10 days they were in fact have been. You can watch the recap video of Our Foreign, your 50th show at tony martignetti dot com, which will have been done after the 450th show. And that is Tony’s Take two. Now it’s time for Google analytics and Google Optimize. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 and T. C. We’re kicking off our day three coverage is the final day of the convention, the conference and we’re coming to you from the conference from or Portland, Oregon at the convention center. So it’s a conference in the convention center. Make that three beginning of the beginning of the ending day. All of our 1990 CIA interviews are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help Ma non-profits make an impact. My guests are Colleen Campbell and Jimmy McCabe. Colleen is seated. Closest to me. She’s a senior digital strategist at Firefly Partners. Jimmy McCabe is senior digital producer at the Center for Reproductive Rights. Colleen, Jeannie. Welcome. Thanks for taking time on Day three unconference. How’s your conference going Going? Well, uh, Day three is always a little hard ones. A little tired, but hanging in a little bit. Have you done your session, then? Oh, yeah, it was yesterday. Thank goodness. Okay, that’s why we picked today to talk to you. Okay. I think that’s why um so your your topic is let your day to do the driving Google analytics and optimize for non-profits. Um, Jeannie. What? What was the reason? Why do we need this session? What are non-profits need to know? Big picture. We got playing time to go into the details. Well, how many do you want to answer the big picture? Because you’re the architect of our presentation. But I will. I will tell you what the center uses, um, data to how we use data to make decisions. Um, I can’t speak for other non-profits. That’s what that’s all. Okay, you are overviewing the headline. Yeah. So you know, our session was really focused on as the title says, Let your data do the driving. So we told a story about you know, first, how do you get good reliable data in Because, you know, that’s really the fundamental steps Way walked folks through some of the things about how to set up your Google analytics to get really actionable data and get to a point where you can trust your date up. Then we focus our middle section of our presentation talking about how do you interpret and understand what are some of the right reports toe look at, you know, not just sort of looking at numbers and pages, but really understanding what’s going on in your digital ecosystem. And what can that what story can that data tell you? And then ultimately, what do you do with it? So not just getting the data and looking at it, but then devising a plan for testing and optimizing. Okay, um and these are this is using Google analytics and Google optimize. Yeah, it was really fascinating that I would everybody in the room at our session yesterday. Use Google Analytics. All the hands went up and maybe a handful raging for 45 folks we’re using optimized, Which is that the final piece of that puzzle of getting the data, understanding it and then using it? Okay, so we’ll spend a decent amount of time on optimized since that sounds like that’s what people are at least familiar with. Are you Are you familiar with Google optimizer? Should we should be back up and explain it a little bit? I am not. You want to do an overview of optimized? We’re gonna let Let’s not go into detail. Now we’ll get to it, but tell us what it does. But what optimizes the tool that Google rolled out not that long ago that allows you to use a visual editor to basically run a be creative tests on your front end. So in other words, if I have, if I want to know if this picture that picture performs better, I pull that page into Google optimize. I send 50% of my traffic to the page with this image and 50% to the page with the other image and Google optimized reports back on your conversion Thio, you know, let you know which one is performing better. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, and it’s a new tool. Or roll that out. I can’t remember. It’s recently free. Used to actually be a painful. And Google within about the last year have really open it up as part of a free sweet. So, um, you know, especially for non-profits Google Analytics 100% free. Yeah, you know, optimize that natively integrates with 100% free. And then even when you roll in, you know the Google ad grant in that part of that ecosystem. It’s a really powerful sweet of free tools. So the son of reproductive rights uses all of those Google tools. We have analytics, and we run AdWords advertising or they call it Google Ads. Now, I think with our Google Google grant, and then we recently started using optimized to try to up optimize literally, are our donation pages. Specifically, we’re not seeing the conversion we want, all right, and we’ve had a couple of panels on Google ad grants or Google ads. I thought it was called that grand, so I’m not sure, anyway. Michelle Hurtado, the head of whatever it’s called. Google was here. But I just learned through the content of the conference, I learned that they had changed the name from AdWords to Google ads, which so, Iet’s Google ads with grants. So if you’re a non-profit, you can have a grant. Right? So that’s $10,000. Okay, We didn’t do a session on that. Okay, we’re done with that now. We have yet, And like I said, we have the head of Google and grantspace Google ads. Way still don’t know the head of a co-branding problem is that they do. Yeah, well, I introduced her as something, and she didn’t object. So whatever the hell it was, it was right at the time. If it’s changed since then, 24 hours. All right, let’s get focused on what works. Great. Okay, you have some Now. I was just drawing from your session description. You have some best practices for for analytics and optimize Okay on. Do you have some Google Analytics terminology? Sure, if needed. Okay. You know, But then Colleen, you kicked us off with trust your data. What reports to look at and then testing and optimizing. So we got plenty to talk about in the next 20 minutes, right? Okay, Okay. Not a problem. So let’s start with some of the best practices for for analytics at Lena’s. We’ll weave them together since they they natively integrated analytics and optimized. Jeannie, why did you have a good idea for a best practice for either analytic list? Like a list of about 10 way? Don’t have our notes in front of you, but I can remember most of the top to the top three or four. What do you like? Well, I feel like it’s a little hard to explain without looking at it, but, um uh, you want one best practice we talked about. It’s setting up multiple views in Google Analytics. So, um, you have the ability to set up basically a test view, um, and then a mass review for your data. So it’s kind of like having a staging site on productions. I, um and we use views at the centre Thio create separate analytic views for our different language sites. So we have, um of you. We have our main website is reflective right side and Google Analytics. We set up a view for our Spanish pages are Spanish site, which is the same you are all about to Spanish language. Um, and then our English pages that we have a master view, which which combines all of them. What is Analects do for you on those two different pages? Well, with a view you’re able to then see, you don’t just isolate the audience for those pages and see where they’re coming from and what they’re doing, as opposed to, you know, having them all mixed up right away. The numbers being aggregated specific slice. Yeah. Okay, Colleen, a practice past may be the one optimized aural analytics. Yeah, as you mentioned, you know, I kind of went through our top 10 checklist, but I think the most important fundamental piece is having your goals and your conversion tracking set up. You’re not really going to be able to get valuable data and look at those reports and understand your r a y or, you know, run meaningful experiments without having that measurement in place. So, you know, our advice to folks was Look at what are the most important calls to action on your site and make sure that you’ve got goals that are actually configured in your analytics to track line to those those calls. Action s O for the center for Reproductive Rights. For example. You guys, um, you know, focus on email acquisition, tracking your donations within your analytics and getting that actual transaction data. Um, I think those are pretty common to toe lots of folks and lots of non-profits. Also the action alerts on your site, you know, Did someone actually complete that action? Right. Right. And then, Jeannie, I know one that’s a little bit more unique to you is actually tracking pdf downloads as well. Yeah, we have a narc way. Have extensive archive of publications, but also case documents and, uh, legal cases. Yes. So this interview, we’ve really introduce our Yeah. Since then, everybody writes, we we do a lot of litigation in the states, and we have for 25 years. So, um, we have ah long history of case documents that you can access through our website, and we don’t really know who’s engaging with them without setting pdf way. We set a goal and Google Analytics for pdf downloads, which is applied to those dahna. Pdf documents are for all of our casework. It’s hard to explain, but it was understandable. I think there’s there’s lots of you know, of those conversion goals that are common to any organization. I think the other you know, Big One from that Top 10 checklist is making sure that cross domain tracking configured in your Google analytics, which is a little bit of, ah, you know, obscure concept. But basically most sites you’ve got your primary domain, you know, reproductive rights dot or GE. But your online forms, like your donation form of your action alert, probably live in a different domain that’s hosted by your tool provider. So when someone comes to your website, you know that’s registered as a page, you and your Google analytics. But then that user clicks that donate button. They’re going to that domain where that form is hosted. And if you don’t set up that cross domain tracking analytics is gonna count, that is two different sessions. Oh, okay, so it’s a big thing. We’re, you know, Yeah, getting that fundamental data, make sure it’s right and make sure you can trust it. That’s really, you know, get your goals in place, make sure that you’re tracking configuration is tracking her whole ecosystem. Okay, I got one practice, but wait, I would like to do one for optimized. Got anything for Google? Optimize. I mean, that’s what I was gonna mention. I pee filtering, though, for Google analytics for us. Just one more quick note. You can, um can filter out from your mess review and Google Analytics filter out traffic that’s coming from specific. I p s like, like your own office. Perhaps eso are all of our legal assistance use our website extensively to do legal research on our cases. And so all of that traffic would be, you know, would show up on Google analytics if we didn’t filter out our own I p address. So that’s an important one. Google optimized. No, that’s it is there Are there really best practices? I’m just getting used to using it. And it’s really actually quite simple. Like the Google Analytics is super complicated compared to duvette optimize Google optimizes like a tool like I don’t know, it just feels really easy. And I almost feel like how are the best practice? Well, how would you answer that? That’s encouragement to use it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a best practice way could move on. We’re not gonna believe this thing. Yeah, I just think. I mean, I think it’s interesting because they do work as a suite of tools. So once you’ve got those fundamentalism place for optimized army for analytics, you can really layer on top, starting to use optimizing really smart ways. Okay, so, optimizers much simpler, right? I think aside from the use of it, the one thing that you know before you before you make an experiment and optimize the one best practice would be like, have a thesis have a plan. Um, you identify an issue that you wanna fix or you know, you want to improve conversion on your one time donorsearch. What do you think? You have to, you know, kind of have a thesis of like, Well, what do you think the issue is that it’s causing conversion to be low on what might make it better and make a hypothesis. And then, um, you know, do your A B tests and see how it goes. But I have a plan to just kind of willy nilly test this or that. You know, have a strategy. Good advice Okay, time for our last break turned to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention on those stories to help you build support. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to DOT CEO, and we’ve got butt loads. More time for Google Analytics and Google Optimize. Let’s let’s go to reports. You mentioned that Colleen is one of the one of the triumvirate of your urine. 1/3 of the triumvirate of your your presentation. Which reports Do you like it? And another reports that you find in your clients paying attention to that aren’t really ones they ought to be looking at. Welcome to say, Don’t do this as well. So when it comes, understanding the reporting inside Google analytics to figure out what I should be testing, I always, you know, kind of tell the story about inlets. Could do a great job of telling you who’s my audience, right? There’s a whole slew of of reports in there that will give you a breakdown. A demographic information show you geographically where they’re coming from My other favorite report is really spending some time on your mobile report and understanding how much of your traffic is coming from desktop vs mobile devices and tablet things like that. So you know, there’s that whole suite of report that can tell you who is my audience, right? Jeannie? Were some things that you guys have learned. Maybe even from looking a little bit at those reports. First, we are looking at audience reports while I look at the audience reports and g et to see, um, what countries people are coming from, where a global organization And so um, we have We have regional offices through Latin America, India, Africa, Europe and I looked to see what countries in those regions are visiting our sight. See what’s interesting to them. Also, what languages people speak to visit our site. So that’s all an audience demographics. Okay, if you’re if you’re national or regional non-profit, can you get the same breakdown by state? Yeah, you can really drill down there. You can see a global map. You can see a country specific map. You could see a metro specific and even drill into like a zip code goes down does. It s so if you’re a local or regional and you want to understand what counties a lot of my traffic is coming from, you know, it’ll drill down to that. You This is a fundamental question. But do you You can figure that in Google analytics, or is that part of the authoritatively part of the reporting in analytics? So you configure your analytics, and then all of those reports are available to you, and they got some really great data visualizations and really easy to understand. Okay? And this specific report is called, What? These are all in the audience section, and that’s specifically the geographic report. Okay, another one. Really? Well, I was really the real time reporting. It’s fascinating to me. So Google who wanna would accept the option Thio you’ll see on the side real time reporting. And you can see you can actually see visually who is on your website at this moment and, like, drill down into, you know, New York state, like where you pull them up, get your email a little stock ary, I think. But I love it so you can see visually where you know visually, where where people are accessing your sight from right now. And then you can watch where they go on. You’re saying that’s called real time. Real time reporting? Yeah. What section is that? Real time. Let’s go. Okay. Yeah, I think the other the other part of you know what before. What do you do with that? What do you do with that? No, I don’t do anything. I didn’t like it. I don’t do a lot with it. You know, what we were talking about yesterday is real time reporting is actually a good way to test that. All of your pages Air firing the tracking tag. So, in other words, like you can use or you could do-it-yourself. Why? So you can hone in on your own person, right on real time reporting. And, you know, on this, you know, on this browser over here, you clicking around to different pages and then you can see that those pages air firing and smart I still get goose bumps when I see that the web just works that fast. E I still doing? I still do. When? What’s one? I like the check. Just Oh, I mean something so simple. But it just amazes me still, because I didn’t grow up with this. I mean, I know I know it exists, but it’s so basic. It’s embarrassing. But I’ll say it. I’ve embarrassed myself. Falik times on this show. Nobody listens to it anyway, so it doesn’t. Nobody listens to this show, so it’s just gonna be the two of you. Um, my dad, my dad even stoploss you make a calendar entry. I could do a count on my desktop on Did I go to my phone? And there it is. I mean, I think it’s amazing that the damn thing works that fast. I mean, I know it’s just incredible or you make a mistake in your credit card, and it’s like it’s instant. You’re trying to buy something instant invalid. Invalid credit card number. Check. Your expiration date is invalid. And how does it How does it cross check their facts like watching me real time and put the wrong digit, and it just gives me a chance to say it’s a hit. Enter and then it’s like it just knows instantly. Indication before, right? No. Okay, so say I still I still get amazed that planes flying. So that ability. That’s like suspension ideology. They don’t understand my things. I don’t understand. I don’t really know how the calendar entry goes from my laptop to my phone instantly. I know it. I can count on it. I don’t know how it works. The access database, don’t you? You ruin the charm of the web for me. You’re ruining it. You’re killing it. Don’t want to know about databases. Table more reports. One of the report’s due. Like Colleen, I interrupted you was interrupted for a worthless digression. Listeners are customs are our list. Well, if we had listeners, they’d be accustomed to my would be familiar with them right now what we’re gonna say, You know, you could spend all day kind of nerd and out or being big brother, figure your audiences starting a neighbor. Then there’s the whole section of reporting of understanding where they’re coming from, which kind of really gets into that our lives. That’s critical. That’s really where the referral sources Yeah, acquisition is the section and Google Analytics. You want to look a little acquisition, huh? Tells you what you are elves they’re coming from or it’ll give you a breakdown of like all the channels, so you can see right next to each other. Who’s coming from social media? Who’s coming from email? Who’s coming from organic search versus paid search. But you can drill in then and see what Web sites are coming from. You know, if they’re coming from a direct link, where did that directly come from? And then you use what’s called UT ut m familiar with the way eso we talked a lot about way we talked a lot about you. Tm codes in our presentations. People want access that information online. We have to play with the art I will trying to very succinctly. But, you know, I’m kind of I kind of ramble. So maybe you have a T l d armors. You know, when it comes to you, T m’s, I say, You know, uh, analytics is gonna give you that break down of channels, and it knows and does a good job of understanding that it’s coming from social or it’s coming from direct traffic. But Google doesn’t know on its own that it’s actually coming from email. So there’s a little bit of extra work you got to do if you want to track your email traffic effectively, and that’s those UT M codes that genies talking about, which are sametz tre parameters that you add on the end of your morals in your email that you send out What is your team stand for? Do we know? Is it from Universal tag Manager? But the codes And you know, actually, Google has it. This is this is in the system For years that I’ve been using you. Could you go search whatever you are, you are all generator you TMU Earl generator or something. Right now it’ll come right up and you can plug in like your campaign name, your source, your medium and the girl that you’re gonna be placing in your email or whatever and Google’s But all the upend, all of the parameters are variables to the ends that you can get your tracking you, Earl, you could drop in your email. It makes it really easy. Okay, so I think the other important thing about it, it’s really great to understand where your tactics coming from, but it becomes even more powerful when you combine that with those goals and conversions. We talked about because then you can see not only how much come traffic is coming from social media versus email, but how much of my raising from those channels how many people are actually taking action on my site? Maybe Social Media does a better job of getting people to take action alerts and respond online actions. But email does a better job actually getting people to donate. So having your conversion data next to that channel data is really sort of where the power is that I think the opportunity to find out what maybe not working or what’s unexpected. Where do I want to run? Some experiments and some Tyson optimized. So it’s about mining that data to really figure out what you want. A test. Okay, Okay. I used the report that I use the most. It’s just simply now we find out the one used the most Well, wait kind of working our way through the sidebar here. So we got audience acquisition. I was gonna start talking about content. Just another used most. Well, we’re going. We’re getting there we go. Which way, Jeannie? Now we know where they came from. Who they are now. We have to know what geological thought problem. Now we got to know what they’re doing on the site, right? Yeah, there’s these buckets. And as you can understand now, so they are You know, where they came from and what are they doing? That’s the site content. So I spend most of my time in St content reporting, which is seeing what landing pages people are coming in on. What’s the next page? They’re going to look at how much time they spend on certain pages. I look at, you know, it’s a page is getting a ton of use. Where did that traffic come from To get to that page? Um, so I know what the path Waas, um and I and I use it really Jin form or content strategy team. What content is of most interest? I look at fight search reports within there. I see what our top landing pages are every week. So we know if it’s something way, have some really specific, literally like a 12 year old, uh, reports, reports and documents that that get tons of traffic through Google search. And it’s interesting to see what people are interested in that we haven’t even we don’t even have updated content on the way. Can I talk to editorial team and say, Like, way need to revise that cerini to publish some new information on this subject. I’m gonna I’m gonna move us along testing, testing and optimizing because we just have three or four minutes left. So what’s, uh, what we need to know? Way just slide in our presentation that said, Optimize all the things right? No, but I think there’s there’s tons of opportunity out there, and hopefully you are mining that data to figure out what that is. But I’d say your donation form is prime real estate for testing, looking at and understanding what your top landing pages are on your site and what you can maybe test there to drive more action. What’s the right headline on that page? What’s the right imagery? What’s the right layout for that page? So, understanding from your analytics, what are those top landing pages and then identifying the elements on the page to actually run some 80 times, testing all different elements whether you have a photo or video with Dexter’s button color, all this? Yeah, everything. And then, in addition, to the elements on the page. Optimize allows you to do what’s called a redirect test. So if you have a CT A on a page, right, whatever, let’s call it a total. Okay, sorry about that. So you’re called action is donate right? But you wanna test, you know, one very different donate page from another day against another donate page. It’s not like a simple element changed. So you you can say through optimized like send 50% of the people who click on this button to this experience and sent 50% of this experience. And let’s see which experience performs better. So it’s a different type of test. It’s not just an element. It’s it’s literally using two different different experiences. Yeah, great example. Anyone who works in fund-raising has probably had the debate about what works better. Ah, form. That’s one step with all the fields on the page or a multi step donation form. And my answer is you gotta test it for your audience. There’s no there’s no one answer for everybody. Okay? Okay. Uh, was there another minute and 1/2 minute? Got about a minute left? What? Uh, you’re loving this No, it’s not among my worst injuries. Bottom third. You know, it’s valuable information. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. No. Good answer. Um, what, uh, what would you like to leave people with a guy like our son? And we got 32nd. Now that I just wondered. 30 seconds messing around. What? I’ll give it to you, Colleen, because you’re the You’re the consultant. Steven, you see the global picture of this? What would you like to leave our audience with? Yeah, I mean, I hope we did an all right job kind of painting the picture of how you get that data in how you understand it and then what to do with it. But I think when it comes to testing an optimization, you know people immediately everyone knows. And there’s doing that peace around a B testing in my email. And people understand the importance of testing their social media ads. But I think people all often overlook the importance of testing pages on your website. So I think, you know, with the suite of tools from Google that are all free again and really accessible and easy, you have, you know, the power inability to do. And even without help from consultants like, yes, we’ll be starting a Web site redesigned soon without your help, actually, and optimizing all the things you’re hearing the inside track on the client relations right? Brandraise shit right now. All right, So they are calling Campbell, senior digital strategist at Firefly Partners and J. McCabe, senior digital producer at the Center for Reproductive Rights. Thanks to each of you, thanks so much for having us. And thanks to you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks for being with us next week. Getting buy-in and moving forward tech committees that work in two weeks. On August 16th I wanna let you know I’m firing a listener at the top of the show. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. 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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, the child care resource center in palmdale, california, at the non-profit technology conference, three people from there signed up to be non-profit radio insiders to have unsubscribed now that’s not true these three very special thanks jamie smith, lucy capurro and evelyn juarez thanks for being non-profit radio insiders. Thanks for loving non-profit radio shout out to our listener, the weak child care resource center in palmdale, california. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get a barton ella insula infection if you cattle e told me that you missed today’s show secrets of google analytics do you want to use google analytics smarter? Kevin smith is co founder of measure creative, and julia robinson is manager of communications at business for social responsibility b s are. We talked at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and what’s permissible advocacy. How much can your non-profit participate in our presidential election season? Can you educate endorse lobby? Jean takagi walks us through what’s allowed disallowed and questionable he’s, our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations, law group on tony’s take two don’t let plan giving questions go unanswered. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. You’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, also by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay for mobile donations. Crowdster dot com here are devon smith and julia robinson from the non-profit technology conference on google analytics. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc it’s, a non-profit technology conference. Of course, this is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose at the convention center, and my guests are devon smith and julia robinson. They’re session topic is hidden secrets of google analytics. We’re going to get into that very shortly, right after we cover today’s, thiss interviews, swag item rich is these small stickers from benevolent dot net they read, be fierce bowl. Be inspired. Benevolent dot net and these join the swag pile for the conference. All right, let’s. Get into hidden secrets of google analytics with devon smith, who was co founder of measure creative and she’s, sitting closest to me, and julia robinson, manager of communications at b s our business for social responsibility. Welcome, julia devon, welcome. Thank you. I have his backwards, devon, you’re sitting closest to me, i am, yes, i did, i just say this backward don’t know, i said, devon, sitting close to me, yeah, julia, you’re over there. That’s correct, you are doubt you are julia, okay, you’re devon’s all right, very good. Google analytics. Now, this is sort of an advanced session that you ran. But i am not an advanced person, a knowledgeable person of google analytics. So you’re going to help me along. And, okay, we’ll do the best we can. Using let’s. See what you talked about here. Oh, labyrinth in corners. So let’s, start with this. Devon, what is it that non-profits sometimes have trouble with around google analytics? What are we not getting quite right? Yeah, good question. So i think a lot of non-profit organizations get really intimidated by google analytics because there’s so many buttons to push and reports to look at so many options of what you might want to look at. And so people just open up google analytics, get kind of nervous, click around and then shut it down and are like, no it’s too much, i can’t handle it. S o this session was trying to show them if you only looked at four reports in all of google analytics and what should those four reports, speed? And then with a couple of other topics as well? Ok, but so we could break it down to four report that on dh still be an advanced user. Exactly. Oh, so did you so hard. Your move, people from from my voice cracked again front, like i’m sixteen fourteen. Did you put people from basic teo advanced? Or they were already advanced that now they’re super users. Good question. I mean, i think it was a mix of people in the audience? I mean, there were definitely people there who, you know, we said, if you’ve opened up google analytics, got nervous and tried it down like that’s, okay, we’ll hope that or if you are pretty advanced user, but you want to kind of take it to the next level. We can also help you do that with new front in code, a new kind of administrative setting, so it actually help you take it even further than you’ve been able to before. Okay? All right. So, julia, why don’t we start with he’s four report you what? You concur with devon, i presume four reports and ok, make sure there’s no dissension thiss pamela too. Okay. All right, so why don’t we start with four report these reports that give us an overview of the four reports? What? How way what would we gain from these four reports that we’re gonna talk about shortly? I would say first off it, as devin says, that it does kind of help you narrow down what you’re looking at. It could be a little bit scary at first to start in google analytics. And i would also say that it having that narrow focus means that you can actually go much deeper toe understand what you know, google analytics is an extremely powerful tool, and i think a lot of non-profits don’t realize that that you can go down to even understanding who specific users, maybe not a person’s name, but a certain institution or a founder fun foundation or something like that. You can really that information what they’re doing on your site exactly. So that’s, the first report that we looked at is whose browsing your website. What are you doing? What a transition. Okay, devon, what is this first report called it’s called the service provider reports service provider reports, which is not a very descriptive name, but it’s basically the internet service provider. The name of the organization who is using internet browser website. Oh, so we get s p i guess, exactly. And to and from that, we could gain glean what julia just said exactly. Yeah. So google knows the name of the organization who owns that s p and so they will tell you what the name of that organization is. We’ll give you the organization. Yeah, sure, exactly. Oh, i mean, not just the not just the number, but that number called myself, but yeah, you’re you’re you’re here. I’d be addressed. Thank you. They will not give you not just i p address actually name of exactly so it’s. An incredibly powerful report and probably the most underused report and all of google analytics is actually saying who is looking at your website? Alright, this service provider report. How do we selected? Set it up. What do we do? Yes, it’s it’s. Just a selection. It’s called in the audience section and then technology and then service provider. So there’s kind of a couple of layers of tio pulled down or something. Okay, i don’t do the analytics for my sake. We have analytics. Yeah, tony martignetti dot com. But i don’t set them up, but we do talk about them every month. Run and we react to them. And so i think i feel like you should ask your analyst to provide you. But which of the organization’s looking service provided report. Okay, so lead us through the path again. I was amazed by what it goes from audience to technology to service. Provider okay, and then what do we do? Just select this report? Yeah, just like that report. And what we actually talked about in the session is when you first see the report, it actually doesn’t look very useful because a lot of the top results are things like verizon t comcast there, although like generic internet service providers that, you know, serve internet to you at your home or on a mobile device on dso what we looked at and the session was actually screening out those not useful results just to look at the organization’s you actually care about, like the government, like funders like other non-profits appears depends who you wanna look. So so, julia, how do we screen out the ones that are not interesting to us? So you actually do have to go in and look at what the what list is coming up? And it will usually give you i mean, even thousands of results, and you have to go in and see who are the top users, and then are those people that you want to hear from? So sometimes i’ll go into a segment for government, maybe, and a communications agency will pop up on that list, and then we’ll just make sure to exclude them. How do you exclude? I am not sure. Devon. Yes, it’s. In an advanced segment, you have to build a segment of those organizations that you care most about. So in the, you know, government segment, you might say, i want the name of any organization that includes city of state of department of agency of, and i’ll just bring you back a list of all those organizations who include that particular siri’s of names and the same works with an exclusion. So if a name appears on that list because there, you know, the city of new york library, but library isn’t really. A government institution issue might exclude the word library from argast you, khun khun, select or exclude exactly in the same way, exactly. Okay. All right, so we need to get down let’s assume that big ones like horizon comcast, etcetera, not of interest us need to get down to where we really want to be out. Otherwise, i mean, they’re in the report, right? But we have to continually sift through all these top level ones that were not interested in yeah, so once you apply the right so once you apply that advance segment, then those ones you don’t care about go away and you just see the ones you actually care about, okay? An advanced segment. What does that mean? We have george in jail on twenty martignetti number on radio. I’m concerned that this session is going to be free. It’s gonna go? Yeah, google analytics jargon it. Yeah, it is. What is an advanced session on advanced segment is thin named by google analytics, so unfortunately, i can’t change the name it all but in advance segment as a way to temporarily exclude information from the report you’re looking at. So if you say i’m looking for support, but i only want to see, you know, couple of the organizations in this long list of a thousand you would apply in advance segment to that report, and then you only see the organizations you care about, ok, every time, every time you, every time you get this report, exactly, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Oppcoll how do we receive these reports? We get to my e mail, you have to goto analytics dot google dot com what good questions? So we covered automated email reports in the session, actually, so once you’ve gone through all those clicks to get to this really kind of sophisticated report, you don’t want to have to recreate that process every time so you can actually set an automated email on that email can get sent out with a pdf of that report on any time siri’s you like to the list of stakeholders that would actually care about that information. Dahna okay, like yourself with the website if you didn’t want to wait for the monthly reporting, but you wanted, you know, every week a list of the top organizations browsing her website, you’d actually get that sent it to you straight from google and what they were looking at. Ok, very good for the social manager could. Exactly all right, what else? Julia, should we know about the service provider report anything more noise? I would say that the thing that’s that could be tough going from getting that information is two then knowing what to do with it. So you have the information. You have this great data. What do you then do? How do you change your strategy so that you know, you can take advantage of it. So, for example, we use it to look at dahna potential partners on then we can understand. Okay, this partner is visiting our web site a lot. Maybe it’s time to give them a call. Do we know what pages different partners or potential partners of organizations on the list have have visited? Absolutely along. They’ve stayed on each page. You know that all that information is available. Yes. Service provider. Report. Yes. It’s. Incredible. So by organization, i can see that they looked at my contact page and they looked at this particular podcast pay whatever this show post and that they’ve downloaded a podcast that they, you know, spent twenty minutes on the site listening to the broadcast. You know any of those things? That’s, pretty scary service provider report. Okay, let’s, go to our next for what’s. The other one, it’s the next one was, i think a channel source reports. Oh, kind of how people arrive to your website from someone else’s website whether that was twitter or some other organization who linked to your website it’s an acquisition report. Okay, this’s, referring, referring the referring domains, domains. Exactly, don’t we know that our that’s not very commonly known? So what we did in this particular instance is google just gives you a long list of thousands of different websites who sent traffic to your site it’s helpful when you khun group those names together that are similar. So in bazaars case, you know, they have a bunch of kind of job listing sites that some traffic to their site for job seekers. They have other media partners, like new york times or fast company, when you can see all those sources that are similar together, and then actually start to see the trends of traffic from media or says partners were says, you know, other types of organizations, so just being able tio kind of put mohr finer detail on this poster close closer that type. Exactly. Julia, can you explain how how we do this in the channel? Sources report source. Singular gentle source report source reports that report in and kick that back over to devon actually cause she’s our she’s. More technical than me, okay, we’ll give you a chance, you’ll introduce the next yeah, so just give a little bit of background. So julie is a client of our agency, so more often, the ones kind of building reports are or talking to julie about what she wants to see in a report, and then we’ll build a financial built actually used the information with her stakeholders. So when you’re building, when you’re clustering, these organizations together it’s really applying that same advance segment technique. So you’re building an advance segment but defines who you consider a media source. And so you might say, here the top twenty media sources for organization and now when i want to see just what those twenty media organizations are doing buy-in advance segment and any report and google analytics, i can actually see projects from this because you choose the names of the different groupings clusters exactly, yes so it’s all it’s, all defined by you the organization or buy you the client, then s o that you’re using keywords in the organizational name exactly define what you want. How are you using the channel source report? Same same way or yeah, we’re we’re using it, you know, similarly, to understand where people are coming from, i actually use it quite frequently as as a gut check, so because i work on our social media side, i you know, seo, this tweet got really good engagement that must have driven traffic to the website, and if you go and look back, you can say, oh, maybe it didn’t actually do so well or yes, this did perform it did send people back to the website. One thing that was interesting is that we have a much bigger twitter following than a facebook following, but we actually get more traffic from facebook than we do from twitter, which means that maybe we wantto change our strategy so that on twitter, we’re using that to share announcements and things that we want people to make viral or spread more broadly and then on facebook, maybe where using that for more called actions or getting people to the website. Okay, would you conclude from that that you’re facebook users arm or engaged though fewer in number than your twitter users follow-up home? It’s a good question, i think it’s just that the platforms serve different purposes. I think that twitter’s more about staying on the platform. And maybe facebook isn’t. In our case, i don’t think that’s necessarily true for everyone. Okay, okay. Now, anything else we should say about the channel source report a little something. So i mean, the key to it is really using it to adjust her marketing strategy. So once you see how people are getting to your site, making sure their adjusting your approach to marketing based on the kind of return that you’re getting from that investment in those different channels. All right, julia, you wantto introduce the next next report report. Let’s say we did audiences. What are they looking for? The search reports, right? Yeah. So search reports on you can do this in a couple different ways. So one is to go into your ceo and look at the search terms that people are using on google to get to your website. And then you can also do an internal search report. So if you have a search function on your website, you can go in and see all the key words. That people used to when they got on your web site, what they were looking for once they got on your website. Okay, this one, this is it’s, also something to set up. Back-up yeah, yeah, sort of your google analytics uses google analytics. Yeah, not not when you’re searching on your own, obviously on your own side within your own site. Exactly. But okay, so you set up another so in the report in the search engine optimization report is basically what it’s called seo queries. You have to kind of connect it with this web master tools account that kruckel gives you, which is totally separate from google analytics, and then it’ll give you more information about not only what words people are using in google when they got to your site, but even just that your organization appeared in a search result, whether or not someone actually clicked it from google in tears whether or not someone actually okay, okay, i don’t feel like i have a grasp on this one as well as i did the first two. Yeah? Why is that? Yeah. So think about it. Anybody not one report. This is searching. This is not a report that schnoll analytics produces it. It does? Yeah, the report what it looks like is a bunch of search queries, so that could be everything from, you know, what is non-profit radio to how do i get help with google analytics? And if this podcast was was, you know, posted on the website on git yeah, you know, it’s really tagged exactly was properly tagged in-kind had all the right key words. You could actually see what words people are using in a google search to find that piece of content, and so the kind of point of our conversation er during the session and wass look att the content needs of your users and make sure your website is delivering on those needs. So we went through an example of searching just for the word other words, who, what, where, when, why and how? And all of your google search results and see what are those questions people have about your content that they want answered and make sure that you’re actually answering those questions on your website? Okay, that’s all thank you. Bringing me alone. Thank you, both of you. Thank you, julia. Your experience. With the with the search report, i would say there’s two things the first is that helped us understand when we had a report that an actual, you know, research report that was well titled it would get a lot more downloads or hits directly from google because people were searching, you know, how do you do this thing? And the report would be, how do you know how to do this thing? And so those would come up a lot more. So it’s learning better titles is one thing or sort of better, better tagging better content in that way on and then the other one is learning the gaps. So what are people searching for both on your website or on google? And you’re not providing it to them? How would you know that in the report? S o for the internal, if its internal search so on your own site, maybe they’re searching for a term and you know that that term isn’t on the website. Maybe you start creating some content related to that, or maybe you more closely match the words that people air using from google s o that you appear hyre in search. Or so it looks so that you are look like a better resource for them to click on, okay? And you could do that within tags to right. You could do that, you know, that meta tags you could do that in the title. You could do that in the earl and also in the body of whatever the pages. So sometimes it’s just about using the language that your audience is using instead of your own kind of internal jorgen so we went through a recent project with b s are around women’s in a quality women kind of women’s impact on the economy, and there were lots different opportunities, so you could think about gender inequality, a female inequality, just women, girls you could think about using lots of different terms in your content, but actually look to see what what words your users are actually using in their own language, and then try to adapt more of your content of their language patterns for sure doesn’t matter what you’re talking about in the office, exactly like the ones who who we’re trying to bring to the cause and to our content, right? All right, so this report helps me figure out what? What? That language is that they’re using, right? All right, very good. Fourth what’s, our last report. What did they do on your site? So did they download something that they give money to you? What other kind of events that happened on your website what’s? This one called so it’s in the behavior section and then events is that the nemo record events co-branding this’s events? What? They they they consider people traveling through your sight to be an event? Yes, the skiffle thiss gets technical any non earl based change is an event. So if you think about someone browsing your site, they go from one page to another page, not an event. If they take some action on a page that doesn’t result in a new girl. That’s an event so that could be scrolling down. The page is an event clicking on a button could be an event clicking on on anchor link that, like, drops you down the page suddenly is an event. Anything that happens on the page that doesn’t result in you moving to a new page, isn’t it so? I always thought this was totally on trackable. It’s uncrackable by scrolling down on a page is track that is one of the topics we cover in the session that’s called scroll depth tracking and we actually provide the front and code that you need to install on your website so that you can see how far down every page on your website people scrolled for a particular piece of constant incredible. I always thought that only clicks which which i guess what result in a new page we’re trackable, but i was very vastly wrong. Yeah, so about a week so about a third of the session ended up covering event tracking and how to implement new code on your website that you actually can’t track all these events. Okay, is that anywhere that listeners confined? It isthe slideshare dot net slash devin v smith slideshare dot net slash devon de vo and the smith? Yep. That’s correct. You can download all the slides from the session and it has all the code there. Korea. Whoa! That’s. Incredible. All right, so what do you do with it? You know, on whatever page people scroll. Only twenty five percent of the way. Another page they scroll thirty three. Percent away and that’s when the scrolling what else? Tell me, what else was trackable on? Don’t generally any non non earl? Yeah, changing event. But so are our item, which is an event because if you don’t change girls, it’s an event? Yeah. Okay, what are the events besides scrolling us? You could look at clicking a button on the site on dh that might, like give you, like a pop up form where you might submit an email address and then go into something else. You can even use event tracking if you’re like having event registration system that’s a third party platform. If you want to see what other sites people go to from europe site to some third party platform, that would be event tracking kapin yeah, anything that’s not just going to a new page on your site could be an event. This is vast. Julia, what do you do with this? S so we actually use probably the biggest one for us is report downloads because we have a lot of research reports, and so that helps us track how many reports they’re getting downloaded versus people just going to the page looking at the page and then going somewhere else. So there’s the you know, the page that has the report on it, and then you click on it to download. Not everybody downloads. So it’s, good to know who’s doing that. Um, i think scroll dept is great because it means that it can help understand if we should change with the designer layout of the page so that the most important information is up top or understanding how far people get down the page. Maybe we adjust what the page looks like or what information we put where, depending on what we think is the most important thing. Thanks. Okay. Anything else? There’s a ton of stuff in this? Yeah. It’s a pretty big one. There’s also con contact. So when people contact us it’s good to know which we have a bunch of different contacts for. You know, if you want to do research report, if you’re from a specific industry, we have a lot of different people. You can talk, teo. So the ones that were the most popular maybe we’ll put that button somewhere that’s, more prominent, or will ensure that the person is on the other end. Of that is properly responding to all of those e mails. Okay, ladies, we’re gonna wrap it up there because it was slightly technical and, you know, without official pretty one. Yeah, yeah. All right. It’s about as technical as they get, but perfect place to end it with joy and again slideshare dot net slash devon v smith. Okay, said it three times. And devon v smith is co founder at measure creative and julia robinson manager communications. P s our business. Is it business or business is business business for social responsibility, ladies. Thank you very, very much. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference. Thank you so much for being with us. Jean takagi and what’s. Permissible advocacy coming up first pursuant and crowdster pursuant has a free webinar coming up. They’re inviting you donorsearch relation’s the disney way. If walt disney was your ceo, how would you treat your donors? How would you inspire your staff? What would you do differently? Webinars on may third. Registration and info are at tony dot m a slash pursuant disney. Have you checked out crowdster for your next peer-to-peer? Event, maybe that’s a run walk? Um, i just referred someone to crowdster for a lacrosse tournament, they’re micro sites and dashboards are they’re simple. They’re elegant, easy, flexible for your donors and for their friends. Who, of course, they’re broad drawing in rights all purposes. They’re drawing your networks in easy for everybody to use. The back end is easy and that’s important for your oversight of the campaign, they added apple pay for mobile donations. You can talk to the ceo jo jo the ceo joe dot ferraro at crowdster dot com tell him you’re from non-profit radio and when did you get the ceo of kickstarter? Never gonna happen now time for tony’s take two. My video this week is another story from my client baruch college and alum asked about including the college in his will. We answered his questions. We gave him what he needed. And indeed he put a bequest in his will for the college. Then he e mailed us and told us about the three colleges that didn’t answer his questions. Ah, what happened to them? The video is that tony martignetti dot com if you want to be a non-profit radio insider if you want to get advance notice of the guests and an advanced link to my weekly videos, also go to tony martignetti dot com and in the operate click the email icon that’s tony’s take two time for live lister love podcast, pleasantries and affiliate affections. I know you didn’t think that i forgot them. Perish the thought i know you didn’t, lovelace their love is going out tio. My goodness. Whole new list. Sam, give me a double. But woe. San francisco, california, san jose. Portland, oregon. Bensalem, pennsylvania. Orza, bensel. Um, it sounds like bensonmum. That’s from was that movie from a murder by death. Bensonmum. Anyway. Ben salome, pennsylvania, then for colorado. Wilmington, north carolina. I’m going to be there very shortly, not-for-profits, but buy a new home in emerald isle. They got new yorkers. We got new york, new york, brooklyn, new york and staten island, new york. That’s. Three of the five boroughs. Where where are queens and brooke? Queens and the bronx? Don’t know. Not with us, but staten island, manhattan and brooklyn are focus on the positive. Albany, new york, upstate and st louis, missouri. Thank you so much. Lots of domestic live listener love today love it! We got we got brazil has checked in brazil. We don’t hear from brazil all that often. So i’m going to say ah, is buenos tardes is would that be correct? No. That’s that’s, that’s, that’s spanish that’s, right? Brazil? Of course you speak portuguese, so i’ll just shut out the city salaries daemon treyz, brazil! Thank you so much for being with us. What is the portuguese opening? Gado? Gado gado. Thank you. Are ah ho! Jon are our intern. Thank you. We’re going. We’re going to asia. Seoul. Of course. Always always counting on seoul, south korea. So generous. Annual haserot and also in china beijing and tai yun ni hao. Naturally, tokyo is with us always counting on tokyo too. Konnichi wa lots of live listen. Love today lovett affiliate affections that comes next in the same breath i mean it’s all this it’s all the same. You know it’s just there’s. No distinction, really. Between the love and the affection of the pleasantries, it’s all the same. I just get carried away with a liberations. That’s all affiliate affections are am and fm listeners throughout the country love you. Thank you so much for being with us whatever time your station is playing us whatever day so glad you’re with us on am and fm, those terrestrial listeners and the podcast pleasantries are over ten thousand whatever event, whatever device, whatever day, whenever you’re listening binge listening, i was talking to some ah, a binge listener on twitter last week she was catching up with like the last six episodes or so six hours of non-profit radio love it podcast pleasantries to those listeners. Jean takagi is with us. I know he’s there you know him he’s, the managing editor, managing attorney of neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco and he edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com, which is a very popular block, by the way non-profit law blob dot com gets a lot of traffic because it’s xero smart info there, done by jean and, uh and his firm and on twitter you want to check him on twitter he’s at g tak gt a k welcome back, jane takagi. Thanks, tony. Hi. Hey, how you doing out there? San francisco doing great and nice to hear all the love affection in pleasantries out there. Yes, thank you. Are you look ng segmented them. Thank you. See that gracious you are. Thank you. Yeah. That’s. What? I love it. I love it. Um, so we’re talking ah, jean because we’re in the presidential election cycle very, very timely about advocacy what you can do, what grayce area what you definitely better stay away from but, you know non-profits you know, they have interest in the outcomes here. I mean, they can’t just be totally on the sidelines. Yeah, absolutely. Tony. And, you know, i think non-profits everyone of us, if i include myself in the group, is being a boardmember way all supporting promote some cause right now, i think that’s just natural with non-profit organizations were furthering our mission. We’ve gotta support to promote our cause, and i think particularly with some of your audience tony fundraisers know that more than anybody, i’m sure they do absolutely but it’s critical, you know, supporting and promoting our cause goes beyond just talking to prospective donors. It goes to talking to the general public and making sure that they’re aware and we really can’t forget about the policy makers like the legislators. Andi even the administrative agencies out there because they set all of the rules for our playing field and there’s non-profits we want to make sure that the rules take into account our organizations and communities needs a swell because the laws can sometimes be on our side, and sometimes they can be very much against what we want to do. You know what non-profits have done in the past? I mean, really responsible of the community for really the most important public policies that that we hold most dear to us, and that really shape our country like civil rights, women’s rights, disability, right. Some education, health, religion, environmental protection, animal welfare. You know, no matter what are our causes are, um, a lot of that has been shaped by the non-profit sectors it’s just groups of individuals coming together in an organized manner and telling the lawmakers out there, be aware of our needs and our causes. We reflect ten percent of the employee population in america. We are a strong block out there on our views are important to us, and the public thinks our views are important as well. So holding potential elected officials accountable for promoting the issues that we have is important, and we can do a lot in an election year. I know a lot of organizations are afraid because five of twenty three is all about, like you can’t engage in substantial robbing, you can endorse political candidates, but there’s still a lot you could do you know what, jean? What an articulate, oh, and heartfelt endorsement of what are non-profit community sector is is all about really? That was that was very touching. That was that was wonderful. You’re absolutely right. I mean, ah, the only thing you didn’t mention is ah, what? Fifteen? I think between ten and fifteen percent of our gross domestic product is held in assets or flows through the non-profit community every year, which is around one and a half trillion dollars or so. So that was really i could. I could i could feel the emotion in that gene. I know why i know why you do the work. You do? I mean, i’ve known for years, but i felt it wonderful. Um, yes, and absolutely. Ah, there are things that we can do. Um now the things that that are some potential places where you can you might be participating in some areas? They’re basically ones that either have, i think, a direct impact on you as an organization or your mission or those who you’re serving. So i sort of capsule ate that. Yeah, i think that’s that spot on, and i’ll just give you an example of a bored i used to serve on, and they turned us off. It was a fantastic organization that worked with children and youth in san francisco, and there is a local budget cut two services to children and youth. Oh, and, uh, the leadership of the non-profit quickly organized parents and told them to bring all of their kids along to city hall. The next day, about two hundred showed up with their kids, and they also invited the news crews to come out there as well. Well, within a week, budget cuts restored back to the back two children. Snusz alright, zoho really that advocacy and action and advocacy totally makes a difference whether you’re talking about a small non-profit or or a large non-profit and you’d likely have a lot of friends out there so really important things you can do out there, yeah. Thank you for saying that you got turned off off the board. You weren’t. You weren’t thrown out my back, which would be a huge mistake. I mean, i wouldn’t even let you turn off aboard. I would amend the bylaws to keep jean guy, which explicitly say, jean takagi, lifetime or as long as desired, but, um, but i don’t run and that’s why i’m not an executive director or ceo. So all right, so budget cuts are good if there’s a law to write, if if there’s ah, law that’s going to affect you as an organization or the people you’re serving, you know those those could be advocated. Tuas well, write as well as budget. Yeah. I mean, i think think of all the non-profit listeners out there right now. And and what does minimum wage? Wass what? How did that theo used equality, equal access, you know, environmental stuff, the federal government government funding just a couple years ago. And it just got put into regs last year about recognizing the need for federal grants to start to pay for your overhead as well. I mean, before it could escape, you know, government wanted to pay. For your programs, they don’t want to pay for any of your overhead, and now there was kind of recognition and thanks tow advocacy by non-profits saying, recognize that we can only run programs with some overhead? This isn’t an all volunteer arika so all of those things are laws that affect mission, the people you served, and i’ll just give you another example because it’s just a little bit outrageous and this one is from california, but it it could spread into multiple states and there’s a bill right now that originally proposed that every non-profit raising funds in california, no matter whether they were located in california or not, if they raised funds in california, they had to put their overhead figures on their website. Now that bill has changed because that was probably unconstitutional. But now that bill has changed and it’s still being being running through committees right now, effectively putting requiring that every non-profit who’s raising funds in california again, regardless of where you’re located in the nation of these funds here on every single fund-raising document you send out every letter, every mailing, every postcard, anything, every email you’ve got to put a consumer. Protection warning label latto oh, my goodness gracious, you guys a ridiculous law that is hoexter organization that creates costs and, again, probably unlawful anyway, but without non-profit standing up and saying, hey, you’re really hurting the communities that we serve, not just us, you know, and these air based on a few, you know, bad examples of some non-profit scandals that hit the newspapers, some legislators want to jump on that you’ve got to push back yeah, california’s remarkable, i mean, it’s, it’s, it’s so progressive in some respects, and then so i guess the progressivism becomes so ah, so extreme that it becomes burdensome, i mean, and burdensome and and della tiberius yeah, you know, just some people are on our extreme progressive for mo are just don’t have enough information, and they make laws that they are going to make them champions of consumers, and they’re just not looking at the big picture and and non-profits have gotta educate lawmakers. Yeah, you and i talked months ago about the charity registration requirement that that all well, if you were fund-raising in california, you had teo you had teo comply or be subject to your your your your activities being ceased and then transferred to other other other agencies. If it was an extreme case, where does that where’s that one stand gene that that went actually passed? That’s the administrative regulation? Um, not enough, non-profit, you know, probably knew about it and spoke up against that and that actually passed through the attorney general’s office. We don’t know how it’s going to be enforced, but yeah, boardmember personal liability if you if you continue to spend money and you’re suspended or you’re not properly registered and that could affect, you know, literally a couple hundred thousand organization. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I don’t want to revisit that one because it has impact as import outside california, does it not? Yeah. You know, whenever one state makes a law and if it’s not really seen as an out liar in california because you notice you noted that it’s known as a progressive organizations are progressive state. So, you know, other states going well, we should be able to pass laws like that as well. Which sounds quite conservative and hot. So progressive right on. So, yes, you have a big state like california passing fairly draconian laws and that khun spread throughout the states. A zoo, other charities, regulators. Alright, everyone. I displayed a body’s. Think about that. They want to talk about that next time. Um, okay, um, it’s interesting with the political spectrum. It bends so far that the left meets the right. I think i think we’re seeing that in some of the presidential media coverage to but in case um, okay. Let’s, let’s continue with the advocacy let’s talk about some things that are that are permissible actual activities, not just things that you could be advocating about, but, like bills and balls, etcetera. But just we just have about two minutes before a break. So let’s, just start to get to the subject of some of the activities that you can actually do. Yeah. So? So let’s talk about first stating the organization’s position on a public policy issues. So we listed a bunch of them earlier. So let’s say it’s, equal rights like you, khun state that position and in an election year may get more visibility. Thanet might in another years. So you know, whether it be gun control or better schools are, you know, women in minority in positions of power. Whatever it is, state your organization’s positions on public policy issues and continue doing so during an election year. That’s. Absolutely. Okay, okay, so stating on your on your website on your facebook page, etcetera, that’s permissible, yeah, absolutely not. Just teo, you know, tio in your fund-raising documents, but just, you know, to get your mission out there and make sure everybody’s educated about it. Okay, okay, i’ll tell you what, let’s, let’s, take our break now and will come back. We got a lot more, ah, permissible, advocate, and you talk about with with jean. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craig’s listen marquis of eco enterprises charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that or neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz i’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Thank you very much. Dahna ostomel, um okay, gene. Uh, so yes, talking you can. You can put your position out there. That’s totally fine. Even if it’s something controversial, right? That’s, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um, what else but let’s talk a little about lobbying? Kendry? Sure. Yeah. So certainly we can attempt to influence legislation, including ballot measures, and they’re certain limitations involved. But charities actually have pretty broad, generous limits would respect to their lobbying the code again? Five twenty three says no substantial lobbying, really? And that scares a lot of organizations so that most charities don’t engage in any lobbying at all but lobbying released influencing legislation, so influencing the creation of laws, or i’m getting rid of laws or proposing new laws. The attempt to influence that is generally called lobbying and certainly non-profits when, when laws are going to directly impact them in the many ways we talked about should attempt to influence legislation and they can. And if they make something called the five a one h elections, um, that’s a way of measuring lobbying where lobbying is just measured on expenditures, it doesn’t look a volunteer activities or what portion of your website or your you know your staff is devoted to lopping. It just looks at how much you spend on lobbying and that’s how much the limit is it’s very, very clear. It’s very easy to elect. And we recommend that for any charity, that’s really got less than a twenty million dollars annual budget. Pretty much all public charities. Except they’re really, really big ones. Five o n h election it’s formed fifty seven, sixty eight from the irs. Sorry, but the technical dahna but it’s like a half page form the easiest form that the irs has. And it’s just my my strongest recommendation for any groups. So you can engage in lobbying and feel really safe about it. Okay, cool. A fiver. One h election. So what’s the number, the number of the form again. One more time. I arrest form fifty seven, sixty eight. Just google it and it’ll be right there. Outstanding. All right, cool. Love that of that. All right. So lobbying. Why dope now? Lobbying could be laws. We could also be regulations. Right? Like that. Attorney general regulation california. That regrettably passed, but it could be either one. Yeah. Great point. So the limitation, the lobbying latto limitations that they can’t engage in substantial lobbying on ly refers to legislative laws. So not the administrative laws which come from an executive branch of the government for executive actions and administrative regulations. You can advocate changes in those without limit as long as it’s in furtherance of your mission, you can go ahead and do it to your heart’s content. No limitations on that. Oh, wow. Okay, that is not considered lobbying. Alright, so any any agency regulation? Right? I arrest environmental protection agency, federal trade commission, all of that stuff in state, state and local as well. Yeah, state. Okay, as long as it’s not coming out of your state capital or your city legislature. But like you said, non executive branch, right or executive branch? Right. It’s coming from the executive branch, not the legislative. Sorry. Sorry. Right. My fourth grade civics class? Yes. It’s coming from the executive branch of local, state or federal. Okay, so that’s, really? I mean, regulations are enormous. I mean, the irs operates on the internal revenue code. That’s that’s a vast regulation body there’s there’s. Lots to advocate. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So regulations are wide open and then for the laws of cars we’ve got our five oh, one h. Okay, let me not miss state that educational activities probably the main way you engage in advocacy. So not just stating your position, but educating the public, educating lawmakers, educating candidates, even that’s. Okay, you can provide a briefing to them on the organization’s issues and priorities. Absolutely fine, as long as you do it in a nonpartisan manners to just give it out all your candidates. So that there where k, maybe those non-profits constituencies are really looking at this issue when you’re not telling them how to vote, you’re not asking them for, you know, for them to take a position, you’re just giving them information, but about the organization’s issues and priorities, and you’re just educating them. Okay, so educational activities we could host events, teo teo, promote our opinion of of ah homelessness or something like that. Yeah, absolutely. You can. You can hold events. And if you want, you can invite all the candidates. Now. If you have have them speak, they’re going to be certain. Things that you’re gonna have to require, but as long as it’s done in a non partisan manner, you can be super big advocates on your issues, okay? Or you don’t even have to have candidates, but you could have you going issue nights to educate the public. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And they don’t have to be directly related to your mission. Work. Yeah. I mean, they should advance your mission in some way. Okay? And all of the activity should advance your mission in some way. But yeah, they don’t have to necessarily be pinpoint. Yeah. Okay. Like you said earlier, minimum wage, for instance. Right? Ok, we could take a stand on minimum wage. You know, maybe we don’t work with people in poverty, but we have employees. And we we believe they should be paid a living wage. And we believe all organisations and companies in the state should pay a living wage. So we’re advocating for ah, for increase in the minimum wage in our state is that? Is that okay here? Because your organization, it sort of has a broad admission of working for a mission of out of community values and families and things. Like that? Yeah, absolutely. Minimum wage impacts all of that stuff. Okay, okay, so we get so lobbying and then ah, the administrative changes, which is not considered lobbying, so i don’t want to watch my terms here because i’m talking to an attorney. So, so advocating for the regulations that’s not lobbying, but its vast. And then you got your lobbying for laws, and you got your education activities all permissible, right? Right. Okay. Should we switch gears? Tio what you can’t do? Oh, wait, no that’s a good idea. Okay, but before we do that let’s talk about what individuals who are employees of your organization can do so excellent. So, yeah, what? What we talked about impermissible for non-profits doesn’t mean it’s impermissible for their employees or boardmember zzzz individuals. So, yeah, everybody has first amendment rights. Of course, individuals could endorse candidates and support candidates all they want. And they just have to be careful if their organizations are put next to their name. In terms of, like supporting a political, a particular political candidate that there’s some sort of footnotes. Listeners probably have seen this before. Some sort of footnotes that says that the name of the organization is there for identification purposes on lee and is not an endorsement by the organization of that candidate. Okay, yeah, don’t use the organization named okay, we just have about a minute and a half left. We’ve got to run through what’s impermissible. I know. Endorsing a candidate. You can’t do it right. So easy ones. No endorsements, no contribute contributions to a candidate and not just money, but using other organizational resources. And that gets subtle sometimes. So don’t let your employees use their organizational email address to engage in their first amendment rights election year. They got to use their private email for stuff like that. Okay, give us give us amore impermissible sure, be careful of working on a wedge issue that you haven’t been working on all year. So it’s an issue that that the candidates in a particular election are have a different opinion upon and that may pivot the way the election results come out and you’ve not campaigned on that issue are done. Any advocacy all year and all of a sudden, two weeks before the election, you start doing it. Looks like that’s really election nearing. Okay, getting candidates. To find pledges on an issue or endorse the organization’s agenda, coordinating activities with candidates evaluating or grading candidate positions, those air all impermissible. Okay, we’ve got to leave it there. Gene takagi. Thank you so much. We squeezed it in, but but we covered a lot. Thank you very much, gene. Great, thanks my pleasure. Always you’ll find him at the non-profit law block dot com. And on twitter at g tak next week, your emotional intelligence and peer-to-peer fund-raising tips if you missed any part of today’s show, i entreat you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? Hyre please show me the path i need to know the way with this. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay for mobile donations. Crowdster dot com. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez and this outstanding music is by scott stein. Thank you for that information. Scotty, be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.
Sophia Latto & Mike Snusz:Increase And Engage Web Traffic
From bbcon 2013, Sophia Latto, principal consultant at Blackbaud, and Mike Snusz, senior internet marketing consultant at Blackbaud, uncover strategies to use metrics—beyond Google Analytics—to help you increase web traffic and engage visitors.
Scott Koegler: Moving To The Cloud
Scott Koegler returns to talk you through moving your critical functions—think donor management and payroll—to cloud computing. Scott is our technology contributor and editor of Nonprofit Technology News.
Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.
You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.
If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio you know what you’ll find here? Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent? Of course i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i am glad that you’re with me. I’d suffer the unsightly nous of eruptive xanthou mma if it came to my attention that you missed today’s show increase and engage web traffic from b become twenty thirteen sofia latto, principal consultant, that blackbaud and mike’s news senior internet marketing consultant that blackbaud uncover strategies to use metrics beyond google analytics to help you increase web traffic and engage visitors and moving to the cloud. Scott kegel returns to talk you through moving your critical functions think dahna management and payroll, for instance, to cloud computing. Scott is our technology contributor and editor of non-profit technology news, so i covered that up on today’s. Tony’s take two between the guests non-profit radio news. We’re sponsored by rally bound peer-to-peer fund-raising and by t b r c saving you money on credit card processing fees. Let’s go right now to the interview from bb khan twenty thirteen about increasing and engaging web traffic. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan twenty thirteen we’re at the gaylord convention center outside washington, d c and maryland with me are sofia latto and mike’s news. Sofia is a principal consultant for blackbaud on mike is senior internet marketing consultant also a blackbaud sofia, mike, welcome. Thank you. Thanks, tony it’s a pleasure to have you both you’re workshop of topic is tactics twenty tactics pardon me, teo. Increase in engage web traffic. I don’t want to don’t want to undermine already. You have twenty ideas. I’m i’m guessing that this starts with analytics. Mike, you wantto where do we begin? Yeah, yeah. So we had four different kind of topics or or categories for the different sessions, but a lot of it was based on ah, analytics and how non-profits are kind of under utilizing some ways to increase traffic things like search engine traffic and what tools are out there. What house search has changed in the past couple of years and even in the last week and and basically how they can take advantage of these to do some of the things that the corporate marketing world relies on heavily to increase it engaged traffic so we shouldn’t be fearing what we can learn from the for-profit sector? No, no, not at all, and i know it’s a little scary sometimes for non-profits they have limited staff, they have people who have different backgrounds that may not be an area they have expertise in, but there’s a lot that they can actually do to kind of stand out from other non-profits, for example, search engine results have changed quite a bit in the last year or two there’s a lot more local results coming up. When you search for, say, high schools, you’ll see high school’s around where you’re searching so google’s pretty smart google knows that you’re probably looking for something around your area, and so this is an opportunity for non-profits to have a better chance to drive traffic for mohr kind of general words like volunteers and events and things that previously they may not have come up that high, but now if they if they localised search engine optimization, they could drive more traffic that they weren’t getting before. Okay, so you want to say more about this localization of of search results? Well, in terms of localization way actually have ways that people actually use terms in a regional area. So one of the things that we recommended, one of the tools that we talked about was using google trends. And so if you are let’s, say, an organization that’s based in a ocular state and you’re looking for the best phrase phrasing for call the action or maybe a very prominent link on your website, you can actually use google trends to find out if the kind of words that you might be considering are going to be high search words of those popular searches. And you can actually dig down a little bit deeper and get into certain metropolitan area. So places like around florida or metropolitan new york or even in l a and you confined that you’ll you’ll notice regionally, people use different language teo to search information than they do across the u s o in terms of localization, you can actually drill down a little bit closer and get words and phrases for your links and your calls to action that’s going to resonate with your area with your reason region excellent how do we start? With google trends, where do we find that you find it in google analytics and you can go in and what’s nice about google trends is it allows you, teo compare terms with each other to see, so for example, you could take the words like donate, make a gift and give now and run those through google trends, and you confined what people, what words people normally used for searching and if you do that today, you’ll find that the word donate is actually a more popular trending term that people are using in searches. So maybe if you’re if you’re an organization that relies on donations from people let’s, say, you know, hurricane sandy, you’re actually going to help those people and you know that people are searching. Teo give teo a natural disaster. The likelihood of people finding you easier is if you use terms that people search with more often on your calls to acting so donate hurricane sandy relief would actually be a better a better bet for you in terms of driving traffic than saying, you know, give to relieve victims so that it’s just one of the tools that you can use, ok? Outstanding let’s, stay with us. How do you activate google trends in google analytics? It’s actually, nothing that you activate its a simple tool and a lot of search engine optimization professionals might use it for research and so it’s just very simple. You you khun, you know google google trends and get on to that tool and you can pop in terms that you want to compare and then, you know, clicked quick go and it’ll actually show you a nice graph, and then you can start to drill down in certain areas in region. So if you’re an international organization, you can look globally at what trends are, what words are trending, or you can actually dig down a little bit more locally and go to more metropolitan areas. So it’s it’s a handy tool it’s very easy to use like you mentioned search results changing even just within the past week. Yeah, we’re recording on monday, september thirtieth, twenty thirteen what’s happened in the past week. No eso google had a big announcement last week that kind of upset or i guess, i guess less a lot of search engine professionals little bit dismayed that usually in google analytics you can see the phrases people search by to find your organization and a lot of non-profits used this to see, okay, they’re searching for mission names or the name of our organization, and this is data that you can see about who comes to your website. Google announced it to be a little bit more private and to make sure that they’re there respecting people’s privacy is this is not going to be available to non-profits or anybody moving forward that this information about what terms people search by to find your website are no longer going to be available in google analytics, but they will with the word is initial word that they’re still gonna have this and something called google web master tools that a lot of non-profits don’t use and there’s a lot of great information in there. It actually shows a lot of information about people who see you in search results, but they don’t necessarily click through to your website. So now i think the challenge for non-profits is to utilize this a little bit more. It was kind of under the radar tool that organizations weren’t used a web master tools. Let master tools yeah, and this is where it this is where the word is that you’re still gonna be able to see this information. You could go back three months now, and i think they’re going to change it to a year. You can go back and see that data shows a lot of valuable information, so i think that’s going to be one shift for for online marketers and non-profits okay, let’s, help them, then our audience is small and midsize non-profits about nine thousand of them. How do they? Well, first do they need to be a web master with that level of skill to use google web master tools? Yeah, not really, so they can use the same log in that they use for google analytics, right? And it’s just it’s activating google web master tools, there’s a little piece of code you can add onto your website and it starts tracking the information so it’s not a very complex process that they would have to do. Okay, is it more than we can talk through? I mean, where would you find this code if you don’t? You don’t know where the code is, so so. Go to google what master tools just just google it it’ll come up as the first result. Log in with your google log in that you use for analytics for your organization and it’s going to give you very clear instructions a couple of things you can do it different ways you could take a little snippet of code and then you add it to your website. Google makes it pretty easy to do if they can’t find, you know how to do it, then you know somebody, somebody, maybe within the team can do it, do it very easily. So don’t be put off by the name web master tools right now, i have that you don’t need to have that level of skill toe, right? Take advantage of you. Go ahead. So i mean with google there’s there’s such a vast array of things that you can look at and you, khun d’oh, and they cover all skillsets so if you’re not, you know, web master, there are things that you can get from those tools and still use that data, you don’t have to be a genius, but in some cases, you know, some web masters are going to be using those tools for some very high, high level code analysis, so it runs the gamut. Ok, don’t be scared. Yeah, there are things in there for you that you can use. Yes, absolutely. They didn’t think that shooting, good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, you waiting to get in. Cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss. Our culture and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe right groat for your business, call us at nine one seven eight three three four eight six zero foreign, no obligation free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. All right, now i know in your in your seminar you went beyond google analytics. Sofia, where did you start? Well, one of the things that we were talking about is, you know, google’s great, because it’s giving you data, it’s giving you numbers and so numbers tell you a story, but they don’t tell you the full story. So, you know, let’s talk about driving traffic to your website and so, you know, getting traffic to your website that’s, something that google is really helpful doing, you know, search engine optimization, you get traffic there, but once you get traffic there, the whole issue is, are you going to engage those people? So, you know, you literally have seconds for somebody to make a decision about your organization. Do they want to engage with you? Do they find you credible? I mean, we’ve all done those searches where you know, you’re clicking on something after a google search, and you get to this hideously design website, it looks like a ransom note and you immediately say that’s, not a credible organization, i don’t want to engage with them and you and you move away, make that decision and within. Like within seconds, we’re five seconds, absolutely. And so, you know, the whole idea is you can actually do some tests to find out if your home page of your landing page is resonating with your audience and, you know, design is what’s going. Teo, draw somebody into your side and it’s goingto make somebody want to click on your site so there are usability test that you can conduct, and one of those is a five second test and that’s a great test that we do a lot with their clients at blackbaud and we do what we do is like, if we’re embarking on a web design, we usually run a primary conversion path. So, for example, a donation will run their original website through a usability test, and we can identify some problems in that conversion path and what’s nice about usability testing as well. Google gives you numbers, you can actually drill down and look in a usability test result and see where people are clicking from step to step within a conversion path, and that can help you identify some issues. Okay, so when we finish a design, we’ll run the same thing through usability. Test the new design and we can actually measure to see if we’ve actually made improvements. Okay, mike, could we get some detail on how we conductor usability? What? Sophia just called a five second usability test. Yeah, way we start that. Yeah, well, i think the tools that the team uses a lot free tools out there or some that are small feet per month usability hub i know is one that you recommend sophia usability hope dot com o k it’s a great tool for another one, i think there’s also, i don’t know off the top of my head, but there’s there’s other ones out there and there’s also ones where you can actually measure convergence on mobile on mobile applications. Well, ok, now would we just google usability test? Is that going to find us the platform? Absolutely. So, mike, summer free and summer lo fi based. Yeah, i think a small monthly fee, but but definitely when you’re thinking about people coming to your side, i think i think that is well worth that. There’s also some other tools. Well, we can talk about when it comes to email testing and getting more from your email that are definitely worth it as well. Yeah, let’s talk about fine let’s talk about email testing to go ahead. Yeah, so so well, i think that’s really one of the underutilized areas that non-profits look to do with their emails so, so much they want to get emails out and they get him out the door. But one of the things that could really improve the result of your email campaigns are testing things like subject lines or you’re called action links. We did a campaign with a back to school campaign last year with an organization, and they went through six different subject lines bef for they found one that really resonated with their recipients at twice the conversion rate, and they were able to use that for the rest of their campaign, and they raised two to three times more money. So it’s he’s really simple things that if non-profits could focus on them and being efficient that they can really help to improve their their email programs. Sophie, i know you. You have some examples of working within different types of testings to get mobile results to get to get other kind of information without on tools that you could use for your emails as well. Ok, so let’s, stick with the mail. Well, how do we start doing this email testing? What are there again? Platforms? Tools or what? Well, a lot it’s a lot of times, they’re they’re right. Within the system where you can, you can utilize within the system, you know you may split up your list into small little chunks or segments and do a test of a subject liner. You may do a test of a lincoln and flexible age simulating, yeah, do it to ten to twenty percent give it a day or two, see which one does better, and then send the winning message to everybody else, and especially with end of your campaigns coming up fund-raising critical time for non-profits to make sure they get the most of their under your campaigns, and there may be a better version of an email that’s out there that’s going to get you more donations hyre conversion rate, a lot of that’s free, a lot of that’s, right within simple email tools that we offer that’s offered out there on and then there’s some ad on things that if you want to dig a little bit deeper and find out who’s opening up a mobile device who is how long they’re seeing your email really, really interesting things are people taking a couple seconds? Are they taking ten or twenty seconds that you can start to find out which of your your messaging and you’re content actually resonated and people people were engaged enough to read it. Okay, we’re gonna get to the mobile twice now in sofia’s nodding every time we’re gonna get to the mobile let’s stick with you, mike. What? What are some of the variables that we should be testing mentioned? Subject line. Yeah, yeah. What else should we be? A be testing. So marketing sherpa does a huge four hundred page study every everything second again marketing sherpa sherpa, they put out a study. And what they found in the last couple years is the effect of elements to test were targeted, targeted audiences and tailoring content to them. Which organizations really should be doing anyways, if i’m interested in a certain aspect of your organization? If you deliver information about that, say it’s a certain type of cancer lung cancer, breast cancer i may respond more to an email about that or an ask about that tailoring, you know, content by audiences, by interest, but if you’ve never done testing before, subject lines are a great place to start way see results and different types, you know, whether they’re intriguing, whether they’re shorter, whether they’re fun or direct testing, what what’s going to resonate their studies out there, but until non-profits tested with their constituents, they don’t actually know what resonates with their comm in situ in bass called the action links or another great variable to test and, you know, when eating meaning the words that are that are that are linked, yeah, yeah, yeah, like donate now we were, you know, that donates going t vs chip in and move on dot org’s uses chipping a lot. Yeah, so that is that what you mean? The wording of the of the clickable links? Yeah, yeah, and sometimes they just say, click here sometimes it’s just register and when you’re scanning e mails using these tools and you see some people just look at it for a second or two, they’re probably going to look at your leg because that stands out. A little bit more and if they just seek, click here. If they say register it’s not really going to tell them what? Why they should do it when they should do it by so testing out, maybe longer legs testing out when you have images, donate buttons, different placement, different colors. You know, the ultimate goal of a lot of e mails is to get people to the next step to your web page. The more you get there, the greater chance you have of raising money, getting people to register. So if you could increase that, click through rate. It’s it’s a great variable to test as you get into your different emails and campaigns. Okay, excellent. Sofia, we contest mobile. I’ve heard i’ve heard rumors to this effect in the past couple minutes, way contest people’s reactions on mobile to our site. Well, it’s not necessarily the reactions on mobile, but one of the important things i mean obviously email is i call it the lava lamp. Its ever changing and you can never figure it out. It’s always a challenge for everyone. There’s. So many e mail readers out there there’s so many different devices, so many different sizes, and so you have a choice of either sending a scalable e mail or response of email, and they’re both very challenging. And so how do you make sure that you’re delivering a good experience a scalable e mail versus a responsive yes on tony martignetti non-profit radio. We have drug in jail that neither of those words or phrases are particularly difficult, but you’re gonna have to define them once the words get put together. All right, so a scalable e mail, it can also be referred to as a mobile, friendly email and that’s, an email that is usually designed a little bit more basic. So it’s usually one column, the fonts are a little bit larger. You usually have very simple copy the links, their very large because the scalable email and also it’s, usually a little bit narrower and it’s designed so that when it gets delivered into a desktop or a tablet or a mobile, it actually scales to the size to fit in the wit. And so you want larger font so that when it scale small for a mobile device, you can read it and you want links that air. That air open that have space around them. So when you put your thumb on that link, you can actually click it when it’s really small, responsive email actually realize on media queries and so a lot of devices that are out there have media queries. And so what it does is it’s actually based on a grid, and it actually performs calculations, and it delivers a different experience and different devices. So your desktop is one experience and it looks great. And then if you deliver let’s, say, on an iphone it’s going to change the configuration based on some calculations and it may stack all your information so you have one nice long, thin email that’s, easy to read and the pot charge sizes change, but it only works for media for devices that have media query. So the good news is it’s going to look great on all of those devices? And the bad news is that all devices have media queer so it’s hard for me to believe that this is all going on, but it’s all going on behind on email message yeah, and it’s a chance. So so when we’re selecting une male provider whether that’s, i guess, a sophisticated pay service there are, or something like e mail, mail champ or or constant contact, we need to know whether it’s sending responsive versus scalable e mail well that’s in the code of the email so it’s not whether they consent it any any email service provider provider consent either one of those e mails, but it’s, how the emails coded so it’s the back in code, the html, and so and so one of the tools that you can use there’s a couple of tools out there, there’s email on acid, which is actually built into eliminate online tool, and you can use another tool called litmus. These work with any email service providers and it’s usually again a small and on fi, and when it does, does it actually take a little bit of code and you run your email through these through this test and it actually will show you what your email looks like and all the e mail readers and all the devices so you can actually start to see how your email is being rendered in all these things. So not everybody. Not every non-profit has a budget. Tohave ah, big testing lab, where they have twenty devices, they can check everything so what’s a little bit better is to use one of these great tools and actually see how your emails being rendered. And then you can make some changes based on, you know, whether or not you feel like you need a scalable e mail. If you’re content, dick state dick takes for scalable or response. If you have a lot of content, you know, maybe you might be working with the response of email. Now the tools you mentioned that that’s working with blackbaud products working illuminate luminant online has email on acid built in to its email tool. Okay, but email on acid is a great tool that’s out there, that’s available to anybody if you’re using male chimp vertical response in the same thing with litmus, let ms dot com that’s another tool that’s great to use, and that will help you actually take a look at how your emails being rendered in. Another thing about these tools is that especially litmus, they actually have a subject line. They show you what your subject line looks like an email inboxes and it actually helps you look at your pre header techs to see how that works with your subject. What is your pre header text? Well, if you have a mobile device and you take a look at your inbox, you see that there’s a subject line and then there’s about eighty to one hundred falik isn’t usually if you can’t read this message, but that seems like a waste. It is the way it’s doing it wrong. Okay. All right. So this is this is usable landscape, arable land on an e mail that is being wasted. These the way i usually see them is if you can’t view this properly, etcetera. Right. What first, mike, how do we how do we get into this pretender? Text? Where is it? S so it’s it’s usually the opening tex of your email. It can also be coded into an email if you want something different than what? What is the first line? Or the first couple of lines? But what’s interesting is a lot of emails. Usually at the top of the newsletter is something else. Save you this in a browser view this in some other technical language. You know courtney, your show you can throw people in jail for using these people don’t always understand this and having that, when they see that with the subject line there’s a disconnect, they see a subject line on one subject. They see the technical jargon the really good non-profits it are taking advantage of this and doing it the right way, they use their subject line together with the pre header to really engage people. So the subject line may start to engage you with one element of the campaign or what what’s contained in the email and then the pre header gives you more information. I think one example comes to mind best friends, animal society did a really good campaign last year with the subject line talked about e-giving toe animals and then the pre header actually went a little bit further and engaged you enough. So you wanted to open up the email because in your inbox, it’s, very easy for people just to delete your email out out of the inbox on mobile devices, everything else, and so the real challenge is getting them to the next step, and the pre header could really help to engage if it’s. Taken advantage of it. Compliments the subject line. Okay. Excellent. I just assumed that that was uncontrollable. I don’t know so many. So many of them are abysmal. As you said, mike. Okay, uh, we have, like, another three minutes or so left. What else? Sofia let’s. Go back to you think you’re looking at mike. I’m gonna go. I’m gonna shake you up, but i think what’s, uh, what happened? I ask you about what more can we share about this? Well, i can i can actually share one simple thing that i actually mentioned a mike and mike said, wow, i never really thought about that. And so one of the things that i shared with the group this morning, as i said, think mobile first when you’re making social media posts and the reason is that most people are looking at social media on their mobile device. And so i start to think about putting your information at the top of your social media post to make sure that they see the important information. And then the most crucial part of this is any page that you’re linking through social media, it better be responsive and it better be mobile friendly because if you’re driving people to your site and they’re going to your site on a mobile device, you have to make sure that that experience is good for them when they’re coming to your site and they’re getting a desktop site on their mobile device, they’re going to leave. So always think mobile first, when you’re posting for social media, all right? And then how do we go ahead and optimize those pages that we are sending two for mobile? How do you do that? You cannot create a mobile page or a mobile, a micro mobile site that you can use for for special landing pages and actions that you want teo draw people into, or you can create a response of website so that your website actually looks great on all the devices. Okay, can it also be a simple if you have a wordpress site is just turning on the mobile theme? Is that going to do what you’re talking about? I believe so, but i don’t know this for sure, but yes, i think so. Okay. Okay. We got another minute behalf. Mike, what do you want? What you want to? Wrap up with yeah, so i would say a thing to focus on better email sign up process, so email generate online donations greatest source of online donation generator, but non-profits don’t always put a great emphasis on female sign up on their home page on their internal pages. It’s sometimes buried have abetter process where it’s prominent on your home page, he tried to convert people on internal pages when they go to the form, have it engaging, tell them what they’re going to get, overcome their objections of too much email. Repeat that in the confirmation e mail. If non-profits khun grow their email list, they’re going to have a greater chance of raising more money online from email. See, the thing is that i would say if they haven’t checked out youtube’s non-profit program, they should sign up for that because all of these videos that are out there that are compelling that caused people to donate. If you sign up for youtube’s non-profit program, you could put a link at the end of the video or in it, where people can click on it and go to donate right from there rather than seeing videos of kittens or dogs or anything else on youtube that may distract them after they watch it? There’s a call to action that takes them right to your donation form could really look to boost could versions that way by by signing up for that program and utilizing those links. Where do you find that youtube program for-profit good. Sign up. Youtube dot com slash non-profits. Okay. Yeah. Excellent. He’s a terrific ideas. You guys are chock full of ideas. Twenty of them one way only. Really scratched a couple. Really outstanding. Sofia latto is principal consultant with with blackbaud and i shortens our title. But we were doing a be testing. I shortened it in the beginning. Why don’t you give me the full title of the section that you’re with a principal consultant within? I work with the user experience. A design group in blackbaud interactive. Thank you. Andi mike’s news, sr internet. Sorry. Senior internet marketing consultant erect. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Enjoyed it. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of bb khan. Twenty thirteen. Thanks so much for listening. And my thanks to everybody at b become for helping me get all these terrific. Interviews tons of live listener love, it’s, amazing haskell, oklahoma. Beaumont, california. Fort lauderdale, florida. New bern, north carolina. Charleston, south carolina we got another south carolina. Do you know each other? Goose creek, south carolina also worcester, mass atlanta georgia live listener loved to each of you let’s go abroad. Only one listener in china today. Ni hao to jeonju how? Where are all your friends? There’s? Usually multiple chinese listeners? Moscow we’ve got one listener in moscow. Wonderful. Welcome. I don’t think i’ve seen you before. Welcome moscow live listener love to you konnichi wa too. Matsuyama, iga tokyo and tokushima, japan. Konnichiwa live listener loved to everyone there’s, more there’s even more live listeners. I can’t do them all right this moment, of course. Podcast pleasantries. If you’re listening in the time shift, wherever the heck you are listening. I love you too. Podcast pleasantries to everyone listening at their leisure. Our sponsors. They helped me bring you this show this non-profit radio you’re listening to right this moment. Rally bound is one of them. They make simple, reliable peer-to-peer fund-raising campaigns. Pick up the phone and talk to joe mcgee. It’s that simple. I personally i like talking to people rather than doing business over the web, if i have a choice and a lot of times you don’t have a choice, but with rally bound actually, you do. I mean, of course, you could go to their website rally bound dot com naturally, but you could talk to joe magee and get advice in a conversation about what rally ban does for you and how you can set up a campaign. Talk to him. Triple eight, seven, six, seven, nine o seven six or rally bound dot com of course they have fake use that rally bound naturally, but why deal with f excuse when you could talk to somebody? I wouldn’t? If you had that choice, would you rather talk to someone? Talk to joe? We’re also sponsored by t b r c cost recovery. They save you money on credit card fees when donors make a credit card gift, you don’t change companies t brc talks to your existing credit card processor to get them to lower the fee that you pay on each transaction. If they don’t lower your rate, you don’t pay them. This’s yourself, rabinowitz he is the genius behind. T brc i’ve known this guy very close to ten years in about another month, aiken say ten years, but i’m such a literalist i’m still saying very close to ten years. I’m pretty sure it’s next march that we first met i mean, in march, um, i’ve referred him many times over the ten years i’ve known him nearly ten years that i’ve known him. Talk to yourself for benefits, you know, i don’t know what to say. You could go to his website. Sure t brc dot com, but would you rather talk to someone and do business with them in a conversation two one two, six toe before nine triple xero yourself rabinowitz non-profit radio news welcome. If you are new to the show from last week, which was the big show, we have their face off between atlas of giving and giving us a i got lots of very good feedback from that, but if you are new to the show from last week, welcome, i’m very glad that you are with us. I am grateful, in fact, to each of our over nine thousand listeners, and i’m getting very personal here, i’m thanking you, i’m in your ear right now, radio even internet radio very personal medium and i’m getting personal. I’m thanking you. I appreciate you for listening for spending time with me. Thank you there’s. More non-profit radio news on my block at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty eighth of february ninth show of this year scott koegler you know him he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you will find at n p tech news dot com and you’ll find him on twitter at scott koegler. Scott, welcome back. Hi, tony. Good to be here again. It’s. A pleasure. We’re talking about the cloud. You and i first talked about the cloud and software as a service or sas in a segment that i called sassi because that’s, my clever creative wit sassy on that was april fifteenth of two thousand eleven. So even, you know, back almost almost three years ago, you and i were talking about cloudgood puting and software was a service. What has happened in three years? Why are we talking about this again? Well, you know, interestingly, what happened is that people talk about it less. Um and i think that’s a good thing, because when we first talked about it, it was kind of the new oh, wow. This is cool. You know what we’re gonna do with that kind of a thing? Yeah, and anymore, it’s. Just the way things work. And it makes all kinds of sense. Um, just because, well, i’m sure that you have had your you go rounds with stalling software and maintaining updates and, you know, purchasing disks and installing them on computers and having this match is between this computer and all that kind of stuff, right? Yes. I have experienced that from time to time. Yes. And i think it’s common, i mean, it’s one of those things that has been the bane of computer administrators forever until crowds came along. Our sas. Same same thing. Well, it’s moving the program’s off into a vote computer and connecting to them buy-in in that connection so that it doesn’t matter what you have on your desktop or in your hand, right? Right. And, you know, the experience is pretty much the same way you’re looking at a screen. You get a keyboard and allison, you click and type and move. Things around and for most of us, it’s way really can’t tell the difference anymore between something that was installed locally and is running on a crowd service. Um, that’s a good thing. Okay, so we are over the security issues that you and i know talked about close to three years ago. Is that? Is that off the table now? Um, security issues in the cloud are off the table. A cz much of security issues in the office. So yeah, in a way, it’s less of an issue because there’s always a security issue. You know, you can’t get away from the half target about that. Well, yes. Oh, right. So, you know, it’s reality that has to be dealt with, but the clients turned out that called computing is no more or less secure than then locally hosted. Okay, are you aware of any, um, a large? Not well, any any non-profit security breaches that have that have resulted from from cloud computing? Is there anything that i’ve maybe missed through the years? Have you ever heard of anything? I have not heard of them. And hopefully that’s because they haven’t happened. You know the thing with target was just so big that number one legally they can’t avoid announcing it. Secondly, there were so many people affected by it that it was impossible to avoid the kind of publicity. Um, you know, we have way had a similar thing here in south carolina. I think it was a year ago. Now where the in the states i think it was the tax records got hacked, so i know if he called state of non-profit i guess that qualifies okay, okay, but i haven’t heard of any any particular non-profit entities, nor non-profit service is that tak tonight, i think you probably have the same level of legal obligation to announce those kind of things, maybe more so of them. Maldon public companies. Okay, certainly to their constituents anyway, so that that could be why we hadn’t heard. Also, i think about throwing at the listeners if you have been aware of or been a victim yourself or somehow have heard of ah, non-profit that that had a data breach. Let me know that may that may merit a show. Maybe there are lessons there that that can be learned. Or if if the institution would rather not do a show then of course, we don’t have to, but but i’d be interested if if you’ve heard of anything and just so that we know that everybody is thinking our eyes on the same plane. What scott’s referring to with respect to target the the retailer was millions of credit card users. Information was stolen right around christmas time just last year. Yeah, talk about bad timing. Yeah, well, yes, for for all of us who aren’t the hackers, it was brilliant for them. Maybe i shouldn’t call them. They’re all thieves, but but they’re they’re they’re the rare thief. I think most thieves not too brilliant. All right. But anyway, we’re going to be on the social social commentary tangent. Sorry, or i am. I don’t know where i’m going so open. So i’ll stop going there because it’s ridiculous. Okay, what should if we know that we are now pretty secure in the cloud. No worse off than the desktop on. And we have great compatibility problems that don’t exist anymore. What? What kinds of processing and data belong in the cloud for us? Well, you know, in general, i would say everything i’ve gotten personally, to the point where i have very few applications of locally, i used the google, um, you know, google bach’s suite. So all my emails up there, like my documents are there, um and, you know, part of the initial problem or concern with that was that what if my connection goes down? You know, it happens, right mean, cable get cut on all this kind of thing, bad weather that whether can interfere, yeah, definitely, yeah, like we’ve experienced, there may be a storm that puts out an entire region so right, you know, so the question there is is the baby that’s on your local computer that is also backed up to the cloud, which one is the one that you could get to? So the good point is that if you have that kind of facility with duplication of data, duplication of programs, but then one of the other is is probably going to be available to you. Now you may have to go somewhere other than where you currently are because, you know, your your officers or your living soul did maybe under water or electricity may be out, but your data, you know, should be either maybe on a laptop that you’ve got that you can use or is a safe and available by the cloud once you get somewhere else. All right, let’s see options that really could save, you know, you save anybody. Well, let’s, use your example of google docks on google calendar, i presume you use google calendar. Also, i do. Okay, obviously, in the cloud now for local, though, are your are your google documents stored locally? Also, yes, i have what’s called google drive, which is a connector. So when i say the document, it is saved to my local and also saved to google docks on my google drive, i didn’t know that, you know, for instance, i will be traveling next week, so my google ducks that are on my desktop computer will remain mayor, but all i need to do is connect my laptop to the internet, and i’ve access to, you know, all of my email, my calendar and my documents. Okay. Ah, let’s, explore this little bit google drive so google drive is accessible locally on your on your desktop even if you don’t have an internet connection it is. And how do you how do you get to the documents that are stored locally on your on your desktop? Um, well, first i’ll say that i’m using a windows based desktop computer. I assume it works similarly for mac, but i i don’t have that experience. So there’s a little program that i installed from google called google drive, and what it does is it sets up the location on my hard drive on my computer it’s really a folder on the drive, and anything that i put into that folder is automatically synchronized with my of my cloud based google docks. Cool dr so it’s an automatic function, so i when i want to open a file, i can either go to my file folder on my desktop, go to that document, double click it and it opens up whore! I couldn’t go to my google drive, which actually looks just like a local drive, but its timeline click on the document and it opens up so there’s two ways to get to it, then, thanks. I’m not really sure which one of you’s most frequently, but i switched that enforces because you know, they’re both there and and i do. Whatever’s. Convenient at the moment. Ok, so that local and remote capability should be should be very reassuring and that’s that i presume this is something we should look for. If we’re doing any kind of cloud computing it is. And i have to say that not all fast paced programs offer a local the local options. Some of them do. Certainly, if you have a constituent management system, um, that you know where you store all of your constituents data and pretty much everything else for you. Non-profit, um, part of the appeal there is that the information, the data, the programs and the activities are available for use anywhere by anyone who you allow to have access to it. It’s all password protected, that kind of thing. Um and so the fact that it is, um i guess, for lack of other description, that it doesn’t exist anywhere in particular, it means that everyone has access to it. In that case, having it also locally would not really be a good thing because it’s not personal data, right? Share data. Right? Right. All right, we have teo to go away for a couple minutes, but we’re going to comeback scott. Now they’re going to keep talking about moving to the cloud, including, we’ll get teo. Back-up we haven’t talked about back-up we’re talking about operating, and i’ve got more live listener, love, stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m chuck longfield of blackbaud. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Did we just hear that? Ah, let’s, go abroad, live! Listen, love bangkok, thailand, i’ve been there. Welcome to the show. Bangkok, iran this is the second week in a row. Pretty sure iran was on last week. Welcome to you, live listener love to thailand and iran, iran. I’m sorry. We can’t see your city if we could, i would certainly shout out your city, but we know you’re with us. Um, did i shout boston, massachusetts in roswell, georgia live listener love to you if i didn’t, if i did so more love, but you can’t send enough what’s the big deal, uh, on your haserot too many listeners in seoul, south korea, and also an young south korea on your haserot. Scott koegler he’s in south carolina, and i wanted to talk. Scott, i want to ask you about privacy versus versus security. Do you do you worry that google can read everything that you put in your google docks and in your google calendar and possibly serve you up ads or use it for other purposes? I do, i worry about it now. I don’t worry about it, i take it for granted. Yeah, okay, well, it’s wise, to take it for granted, because we know they’re doing it. That’s what they’re i mean, that’s. Their business information is information and and targeting advertising, too, you know, to appropriate audience is doing, and i like it. But you know, the the truth is that most people see those ads and almost nobody clicks on them, you know, it’s it’s a sad thing, but it but it is the case there was a, uh, there was a study down on facebook ads, and i don’t sorry that i don’t recall the specifics about it, but the quick rake on them is just abysmal. So even though they’re there and kind of, um, you know, you see them, they become eyesores. Most people just disregard them completely. For instance, i’m looking at my gmail right now and in my primary list, okay? Just the inbox. There are no abs. It’s just it’s just you know what? Yeah, once i opened one of the e mails, now i begin to get ads across the right hand side. Yeah, they’re pretty innocuous. Okay? I don’t know. Yeah, the targeted ads bother me. Maybe i’m maybe i’m an aberration. Um, i feel like i’ve talked about this before when it’s come up. Other times i feel like i’ve been a little invaded when i get a ad. That’s that’s targeted that i know is because i went to the site but didn’t close a sale or something, you know? I went to a site and browse around or it’s because i read some kind of content and so, you know, you could sort of see the relationship. I know i feel like i still feel a little invaded when i when i get those i haven’t, you know, i have not overcome that yet. Well, it does give me pause because i know that i went looking for boots from my wife one time and everywhere, every page on every website that i went to where these women’s boots coming up. So you gotta wonder, okay, what does that say about me? And god forbid, i go anyplace that i really don’t want to know about anymore. Yeah, right. Well, what also says about you is that you’re a cross dresser. Well, exactly. Well, not exactly, but it’s it’s out now, but don’t nobody listens to the show, so i don’t want nobody knows nobody hears this show. Don’t worry about that. Let’s talk a little bit too. Moved to the subject of of back-up in the cloud. Very well advised, right? Yeah. Back-up is back-up there’s? Definitely something that you want to do. I mean in general, but in the crowded is even better. The issue with that is that if you are backing up local data, there are restrictions about the practical restrictions, not necessarily legal or technical, but just practical restrictions on how much you can actually back-up based on internet bandwidth. Good on we all look at the the download statistics for no the speeds. You know, when you get an internet connection to your cable company, they brag that you get twenty megabits of download. What they don’t talk about is the upload. And if you’re backing up it’s the upload that little matters that’s, the that’s, the speed at which data moves from your computer to their cloud server. Cool. Okay, so typically a twenty megabit god download speed, which is pretty fast. Ok, they fast? Actually, the comparable upload speed is more like one two, two megabits. So when you download a whatever a gigabyte file, you will get that in a minute or two. But when you try to upload a file even now, let’s face it. A digital image photograph is going to be a couple of megabytes. Um, it’s really going to take a long time for that? The upload now, what’s what’s constraining the upload speed is that your own service that’s slower than the server the clouds over giving it back to you? Or what’s what’s constraining us it’s the it’s, the connection that you’re paying for yeah, so you have a if you have a cable connection, right? Cable cable company connection uh, it’s it’s their service, that is slower. Yes. Okay, now it is possible to get hyre speed, but obviously it comes across so major corporations they’re goingto have called by synchronous in other words, it’s the same opposite is down what they’re saying, lots of money for that, you know? All right, so we need a small non-profit probably doesn’t write s so when we’re talking about backing up in the cloud, we need to be aware of our upload speed. And then and then you know how you get it back is important because that’s your retrieving your data? Yeah, exactly. And where you get it back, you know, may not. How you get it back may depend on where you are and what you need to do with it. So if you’re, uh, if you’re local, computer environment is underwater for instance. And you moved to a new location. You need to download essentially your entire data. Your entire set of data. Yeah. So if it’s a lot when they want to order a order it on the hard drive and have it settled tonight rather than try to download it. Okay, a lot of services offer that kind of capability. Scott, we have just a minute left, and, uh, i want everyone to know. This is scott’s swan song he’s he’s going to be leaving after about three and a half years. We’ve had a good long run together. Scott, we have it’s been a lot of fun planning. It’s been my pleasure, you’ve been you’re the longest running contributor, it’s all because, you know, i want to change up topics and more about that another time. I don’t wanna talk about new person coming on to talk about scott and the three and a half years that he has spent. As you know, basically a monthly contributor. Definitely. Regular contributor buy-in technology. Scott, just as it’s really been a pleasure working with you. Thanks, tony. And same to you, it’s been a good run and, uh, you know, i uh, how would we go? Sounds very good. I know we’ll be in touch on twitter. Yes, we will. All right, thank you very much. Scottie scott koegler tulani take care, my pleasure editor of non-profit technology news n p tech news dot com and at scott koegler on twitter next week, another interview from bb con earning that society level gift and jean takagi are legal contributor returns he’s a very smart guy always learned something from gene rally bound and trc they support non-profit radio. I’m asking you to talk to them joe magee and yussef rabinowitz ifyou’re in the market for either peer-to-peer fund-raising or if you accept credit cards, talk to gdpr rally bound or tb rc rally bound is at triple eight seven six seven nine o seven six or rally bound dot com and t brc dot com or to one two, six double four nine triple xero our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer. The show’s social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, we have to say farewell to debra. This is the last show that she’s going to be social media manager of we’re going to be making a change starting march first. Deborah, thank you very much. Farewell and good luck. The remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, this music you hear it’s by scott stein. I met him last night at a gig. He was at symphony space, thie barth, aaliyah and symphony space. What a nice guy took pictures and everything. Check out the facebook page, be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great network duitz get in. Thank you, cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to talking on their network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking. Come on.