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Nonprofit Radio for September 20, 2019: Wounded Charity

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Doug White: Wounded Charity
Author and consultant Doug White returns with his latest book, “Wounded Charity,” positing that the 2016 allegations against Wounded Warrior Project were mostly untrue and that the organization’s board failed. Join us for a provocative and thoughtful analysis.

 

 

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Transcript for 458_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190920.mp3.mp3 Processed on: 2019-09-20T19:10:34.517Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…09…458_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190920.mp3.mp3.868378293.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/09/458_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190920mp3.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I turn drama Tropic if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show. Wounded Charity author and consultant Doug White returns with his latest book, Wounded Charity, positing that the 2016 allegations against Wounded Warrior Project were mostly untrue and that the organization’s board failed. And the media. Oi Doug brings a provocative and thoughtful analysis on Tony’s take to take caution in your plan. E-giving relationships Responsive by witness E. P. A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Witnessed gps dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. What a pleasure to welcome back to the studio. It’s good to be Don’t wait. Yes, he’s the author, teacher and advisor, two nonprofit organizations and philanthropists. He’s said he’s the soul. That’s the only part they want occupying those three those three categories. He’s co chair of the full proof foundations Walter Cronkite Project Committee and a governing boardmember of the Secular Coalition of America. He’s the former director of Columbia University’s master of science in fund-raising management program. Before that, he was academic director at New York University’s heimans Center for Philanthropy and fund-raising. That’s where we first met. His latest book is Wounded Charity. Lessons Learned From the Wounded Warrior Project Crisis will be published early October, and that’s what brings him back to non-profit radio. Welcome back as I say, It’s good to see you again. A pleasure. You’re our first live guest in our new studio. I can smell the paint. I can t o and the elevators better intoxicating. The elevator is bigger. There’s more than one, and it’s you. It sounds different to me. Uh, we got it. We got to get some things up on the wall, but it feels good. Just welcome to the new space. Well, thank you. It’s good to be a part of it. Um, yeah. Wounded warrior project. Very interesting. You’re You uncover some things that a lot of people do not know. Um, and you say that you’re actually you’re offended, Earl. I think early in the book you say that you’re offended by what happened to Wounded Warrior Project. The reaction that the board had you took offense at this. I did. But not at first. Because when you hear something on CBS or read something in The New York Times, you tend to think it’s true. And before I go too far, I want to make sure that people know that I like CBS News. I like most of the networks and I think the world of The New York Times. But this is a story that they got wrong and it was egregiously wrong and upon having learned what did happen, I am offended. I’m offended by the lack of journalistic standards. I’m offended by the way the board behaved. And every time I ask somebody about this story, did you hear about what happened to a wounded warrior project? I’ll have reactions to Oh, that’s that fake charity. That’s the charity spent all the money wrong, and I say, Where did you hear that? And of course, he’ll tell me where they didn’t. Of course, that’s where thatwas the times and CBS. But then I say there is more to that story and most of what you know is wrong. More to it. You. Ah, Now, at the end, you call it a long, long, nurturing hit job. A long, marinating hit job That would be the freezer. Long magnetic it job is the phrase you Yes, way Have a full hour together. So we have plenty time. Thio flush this out. But say little about long marinating the two people who were fired the CEO and CEO Steve Nord Easy and Al Giordano were fired in March will probably do a CZ. We go forward with the story of this, but they were fired in March of 2016 after scathing reports out by CBS and The New York Times. And it would be easy to think then, logical to think that as a result of those reports, the board looked at their leadership and said, we’re going in the wrong direction. It is my opinion that that decision was made well before those reports came out. Now. Yeah. Okay. We’re gonna get to that. All right. Wonderful. Um So the claims in the media were were scathing money wasted on travel and entertainment costs were too high. Morale was low. Programs failing. Um, some watchdogs, charity navigator and charitywatch, specifically low grades. Um, yes, this was This was all January 2016 a CZ you’ve said New York Times and CBS, but not in that order. Give us Give that what happened at CBS and then The New York Times And what was said I was home about nine o’clock on Tuesday night the 26th of January and enjoying my, I think, second bourbon when I got a text from a good friend of mine and someone you may know to Laura Fredericks. Oh, sure texted me and said, Did you see what CBS said about Wounded Warrior Project? And she’s also on the board off another veteran’s organization. So she’s tuned into these kinds of things, and I said, No, I hadn’t. So I looked it up and watched it, and I thought, Wow, this is Ah, pretty scathing report because it said that they were spending money badly, that morale was bad and everything you’ve just mentioned. And I thought this sounds like something I would be interested in because, as you know, with other books, another work that I’ve done. I’ve been very critical of charities because I don’t think charity should be badly run. I think they should be well run by people who care about the work they do and having a charitable ethos. And so I’m my intent are up when it comes to bad behavior charities. And so I thought, Well, this is just another example of that because I had no contact with Wounded Warrior Project Before this time, however, I had contact with a reporter of The New York Times about six or maybe four weeks prior. I had been called by day Phillips, who ended up doing this report about Wounded Warrior project, and at that point I knew nothing more than what was publicly available. You know, the information that was publicly available on nine nineties and other reports, and basically his take with our conversation, which, by the way, lasted about an hour or an hour and 15 minutes. What is the ethos behind an organization that is, that is growing so quickly? Is there a problem with that? Inherently. What about their programs? And all I could speak to was with what I knew publicly, and it was all very positive. I said, I get it That that there are criticisms. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying they’re perfect, but I can’t see anything wrong with them. We ended that I think on a fairly good note. And I had no clue that he was working on this kind of a story. And I’ll tell you this much at that point, I don’t think he waas right. You think he changed his slant of the story when CVS came out with what you saw, I well, they knew CBS was coming. I mean, what happened was that Tuesday night, I knew it was gonna be a three part series on CBS. I wanted I did, right? Dave Phillips. And I said, Are you aware that CBS now has this big story scooping you? Yeah. And so I thought, this is not good. My answer came the next boarding When I read the New York Times when that story was in the New York Times above the front page above the fold. That’s correct. Now what? So I was curious about this. Why would the times if if you’re right, why would they slant the story because of what? Because of the direction CBS took. Why couldn’t they take their own tack if they were Maur? If you felt that Dave Phillips was Maur neutral about about wounded warrior, Yeah, and I think in the long haul of things I want to be gentle with Dave Phillips because I don’t think he’s the bad guy here. And I think I know he’s a very good reporter. I think what he had was what I call an evergreen story. It was not something that had a deadline to it nearly did, by the way, the CBS take have a deadline to it. But it was much more salaciousness. And so I think he tried to catch up to that salaciousness. That’s what I think happened. But he wasn’t finding that. And you don’t You don’t pursue this in the book. But it was a question I had. He wasn’t finding that in his You don’t think in his in his own in his own research, not originally. But then he got talking to people who are on a Facebook page. We’re all malcontents, former employee employees. And so he got inside the second chamber and listen to it after a while. And when he went down to wounded warrior project in Jacksonville, he had many interviews. Many of them were very positive in all of them. Got put on to the cutting room floor. So he at that point had shifted because CBS came into the picture late, like in December s so late, 2015. And so I think he had timeto switch gears. Okay, we have Thio take a first break, and that is for Wagner. CPS. They have a wagon or on September 25th Exempt or non exempt. You need to classify and pay everyone correctly under the Fair Labor Standards Act. And you need to document what you’re doing. Wepner will explain it so you can understand it. Weather cps dot com Click Resource is and upcoming events. If you missed it, live so many of our podcast listeners. I can understand that. Then go to re sources and recorded events. All right, let’s go back to ah, wounded charity. Um, so he so he caught up with the salacious side of it. All right, I’m still alright. This Yeah, There was the malcontent employees Echo chamber. All right, so Wonder Warrior Christ Wounded Warrior Project now has a crisis. There was a three part series on CBS over what, Over two nights a night the next morning of the following night. Oh, that’s right there and one in the morning and then the following night. And they’ve got this New York Times with peace. Which came the guest, the 27th of January. What is the board do? The board hires Simpson Thatcher law firm here and a group called FT I, which is accounting firm to do an audit of the organization’s finances. They did that almost immediately, probably within a few hours of the reports coming out because they wanted to find out what was going on with regard to the accusations that money was being misspent. They also at the same time silenced the CEO. Stephen aren’t easy stating our Daisy is a pretty savvy guy. Probably one of the better CEOs. What was his age at this point? Him and al what were their ages? They’re not really young, but they’re not old. I would say they’re probably in their fifties. Okay? Yeah, something normal helps me on. I think they’re about the same age they came through the world with the veterans world. Kind of the same time. At any rate, um, they were told they couldn’t talk to anybody. And Steve actually was very media savvy and good person in many ways said to the board, This is not the right strategy, because we’re gonna be out there hanging without any story. And we’re not even responding. He wants to get ahead of it. He wants to get ahead of grab it. Yes, like you would advise your own clients to do in an emergency. Silence is bad because the story takes story goes on without you. The stood out without your part of it. Well said, Well, that didn’t happen. And so he was muzzled. Reinardy xero Steve. Not easy as a CEO. Yes, Al Al Giordano CEO. Yes, two Italians. But what you didn’t pursue the Italian American discrimination pathway into this thing? These two, these two screaming Italians nor D. C. And Giordano railroaded by the board. You didn’t pursue that? You know, you’re the Italian American sentiment on the warrior project. Most of the lack of intellectual curiosity. Okay, I’ll help you. Thank you. Bring me in. Silences them now I had another something curious CBS offers. Did he say? Nor Deasy or not? D. C Easy, easy. Okay, The proper princessa Ditzy what? You wouldn’t zizi like brothers pizza? You don’t say Pisa pizza. Nor did Marty Martin, yet martignetti CBS offers, nor D z Rebuttal time. They offer him substantial time on a morning some on one of their morning shows with Formerly With Charlie Rose. Why did they do? And they say And they say in the email Ah, lot of time like we usually give guests three minutes, we’ll give you twice that or something like that and we’ll be willing to talk about other opportunities for you to be on CBS on other shows. Why did they offer that? Did they sense that that they had something wrong? Oh, I know they sensed they had something wrong. I mean, there’s nothing that says it on paper to my knowledge, but there could not be any other conclusion after watching this. And also there were people who talk to Gil. There were some internal e mails from internal emails that I was able to put my hands on that showed that there was something really wrong here. Why would CBS offer them or offer Steve This? This could have been an effort on their part to kind of come clean. But Steve knew that this this was baked in already. I don’t feel like there was any any anything to gain by coming back and fighting that. Oh, I thought he would have taken the opportunity if the board had allowed him to. Oh, well, yeah, but the board didn’t allow him to write, so, you know, I don’t. And he’s been criticized. He’s been criticized for that, Uh, but he wasn’t allowed. You’re right. Now there’s a question. Uh, we could talk about this now. Sure should. Should he have or, you know, where do you, uh, ready to draw the line between obedience to the board and loyalty to the organization and say, Screw the board? I’m going ahead. That’s the last profound question that I asked in the book toward the end. And I think it’s an open ended question. I don’t know the answer to that. Boardmember has, ah duty of loyalty to the organization. Staff member has duties to both the organization and to the board. When you see that the board is going in a different direction. From where you see the organization going, you have a profound dilemma on your hands. One person was extremely critical of Steve for not bucking the board. I won’t use the language he gave me, but that language is in the book. But he said that Steve should have and Al should have buck them and gone public with everything they could at that time. And which person which questions that you know, that was quote okay. Yes, You have a lot, by the way. Lots of footnotes couldn’t you couldn’t have cut the footnotes down 370 foot notes. It’s really got to go to the back of the book all the time to see this. It means a substantial because I was taught in law school. You always read the footnotes. You know that the footnotes used to be in academia couldn’t put them at the bottom. It’s so much easier when they’re the bottom of the page. But that looks bad. People won’t read books like it looks like it. Then it looks like an academic journal. That’s yeah, and it’s important to may toe have these facts correct. And this is not true about a lot of things that are written in general. And so I want to be sure that especially in a situation like this and I was this way with the book on Princeton, too, wanted to make sure that everything that I said was backed up in people new words being backed up. In fact, just to go down that line for a minute. I do worry and always do worry about what I have an anonymous quote. I don’t want people to think I made it up. And so I’ve asked people, attorneys and other people in the world of ethics and non-profits. How do I make sure that people don’t think I did that? And there’s really no way. Just, you know, the authority is otherwise there, so they’re gonna have to take your word for it. It’s like the times when they come out with an anonymous source, got to take their word for it. But that means that eyes the author have to take a lot of responsibility and have a lot of integrity, or try to have integrity anyway in the process. That’s why you have the footnotes Okay. Okay. It’s a yes, I imagine you have. You have a spreadsheet somewhere that says anonymous quote. Footnote number 2 14 Is this person? Yes. Something like that. So, Yeah, I do. We do have to trust you, and your lawyers will never see it. I can tell you that no matter what you do. Okay? You’ve assured everyone a lien on it. All right? So now nor D. C. And reinardy, xero, Dizzy and Giordano, highly rated by the board before this before this occurred. Yes. Talk about that talk about and how wounded Warrior Project was doing. Let’s give them their due now. Wounded. Well, they don’t need their do now. They’re just They’ve always been a great organ. I meant now in the show. Oh, in the show. Just at this point in our time together. Let’s do it. Great organization. It grew from a fairly small organization in the early two thousands. John Milius started it with backpacks out of his basement to take up. He noticed that when he got out of being wounded, Hey, didn’t have any essentials like a toothbrush or a water bottle or things like that. He said I’m gonna put together backpacks and take him up to Walter Reed. He was in Virginia and give them a way. That was really the way it got started. And at the same time, because there was a fellow out in Long Island. Peter Hoener Camp was also concerned about veterans coming back. He started something called Soldier Ride on DDE that raised money for Wounded Warrior Project. So they began to make money a few years after John Milius started it for real. And when Steve and Al came into the scene to really become the leaders of the organization from a staff perspective, they started. They said What? I think all charities need to do more off. They said, What is our task here? And when they defined their task of taking care of veterans when they’re coming back from 9 11 posted an 11 conflict, the money that it would take would be X. And they said, Okay, we’re gonna go out and raise X. It wasn’t like, Okay, we’re gonna raise $1000 see what we can do. What they say. They had an entirely different mindset and a good one, but as you can imagine, Tony. It was somewhat in conflict with the way the mindset works at many charities. So the pursuit of the money became itself something controversial at anyway. They grew and grew, and by the time they left they were earning almost $400 million which is pretty big. They went from 10 to $400 million in a decade, basically, and they had 20 programs. All of them were working. They were quantifying their results and from a an impact respect of the big word today and non-profits his impact. They were already doing it. They were already doing it from a quantitative and qualitative perspective for for many years prior to this point, they were doing a good job, and I think they still are. The vision, I think is reduced, and it’s a smaller organization right now, but it’s still a good organization. I don’t want to say anything bad about the organization today, but it’s a different organization. And nor did see not Dizzy and Giordano, as I said, highly rated by the board. Okay, let me get back to that because you did ask that a few months before they left their ratings and by the way, there prior ratings were all consistent with this. We’re fabulous. They were great. And Steve said, Well, look now I think we ought to slow down and start to become a different kind of order. We are becoming a different kind of organization, so we need to look at it in a more sophisticated way. We’re going to slow down a little bit. We won’t be pushing the gas pedal is hard, and what we want to do is make sure that we’re really serving everyone to the fullest that we can on DDE. That always reflected in those in those reports that the that the board had done on the board hired a firm to do this. And so they all concluded that they were doing a great job. This is just a few months earlier, and so it was really start when when this happened, the crisis came along. The reports just a few months after the glowing review by the board, and then a month later, the board says, we need to change very cryptic and very unsatisfying. In fact, after the two were fired in March, I think was the 16th of March in 2016 Tony Odierno went on the Bill O’Reilly show, and Bill O’Reilly was always a very big supporter of the wounded warrior project. Odierno. It’s board, chair and audio was the board chair, Thank you. And at that point he stepped in. His theory of an amputee also. Yeah, and basically his father was a war hero. He was the head of the military command over there. And so he’s a Tony. Odierno is, I’m sure, a very fine, upstanding, good person. He wouldn’t return any of my phone calls, but that’s another issue. I think that he’s probably a very good person, no reason to doubt that. But he so he came in. He had a full time job here in New York. Kayman is an acting CEO, and he was interviewed by Bill O’Reilly, and O’Reilly said, Why did you fire me? So we needed a change of culture? No, Riley, to his credit, said, Well, what does that mean culture? What it was this culture thing that’s going on here? Well, we really needed a change of culture. I’m making you have the transcript and you have the transcripts segment in the book. Yeah, but basically said that we needed a repeated himself. We need a change of culture, know, really, if you remember him on the show, is kind of a pugnacious fellow, and he said, and this is a friend, you know, This is a friendly interview He said, Well, what does that mean? Again and again, Tony said the same thing. And Cody Bill O’Reilly was just flummoxed. Why don’t you answer this? You’re not answering my question. And he said, Basically, since you’re not answering it, I guess we just don’t have anything more to talk about. Very frustrating and what it really? In addition to your alley’s frustration, the problem was that Tony did not have a good answer because there was no good answer. They were essentially saying the organization in their responses to the reports. The organization is fine, but we need to make a change of leadership. Yes, that was the 22 contradictory statements. Exactly. So you have a report that comes out in March, this report that was done by Simpson Thatcher saying basically everything that the media said was wrong. Still, we need a change in culture. We need a change and so and I got a hold of a letter that Simpson This report, by the way, was not written. Okay? There was no right. It was orelon. But there was a letter written Thio Grassley, Senator Grassley who was looking into this. That’s the letter I looked at. And Simpson Thatcher said, Well, clearly, Odierno, Excuse me is clearly reinardy Z and xero dahna have to go. I’m thinking clearly. What? What’s so clear about that? Everything you’ve said so far is supporting the work that they’ve done. And so where is this coming from? The report vindicated them. The report vindicated. There s so we’re getting to the long marinating hit job theory. Well, the report vindicated them. And as part of that report, they said, Well, there are some some tweaks we should make here. You know, there are some things that as a growing organization, you should do a little bit better. Well, by golly, what organization does not have that is it? It was like policy. Some of the policies and procedures need to be right. Revised, but they’re experiencing explosive growth. I mean, it’s not uncommon for policies the lag behind growth as you’re trying to raise more money and do more programs, and both Steve and Al were seasoned at growing. They knew what they were doing. And so if you take that, you say that doesn’t make sense. What also doesn’t make sense is that a few years earlier, Simpson Thatcher also did a report on the Clinton Foundation, and they were scaling. This is a conflict of interest here. There are no policies. Everything’s wrong. There’s just like it’s crazy now, one scintilla of a recommendation to replace anyone at the Clinton Foundation here. Everything’s going well. We have a few things that we think we should, you know, upgrade. But you know, those two guys that have authored this entire success for the last decade, they need to go clearly. Let’s bring in Richard Jones. That’s a good time for him. He’s on the board of Wounded Warrior project. Uh, still is. I meant at the time. But he still is. Yeah. You say he remained. I didn’t know if he still is today. Okay, I think he’s going off the board at the end of this, Okay? But I think you still think it’s the last line of your book. Richard Jones remained. Yes. Um, but he’s on a couple of other boards and he’s got a He’s got a duty of loyalty to CBS as well. Talk about him. Well, I can only remember offhand right now. One of those two other boards and one was Dixon House. The other was the Veterans Family Institute for Vets and Military Families. E M F. Thank you. And there were a lot of organizations that I implied earlier who didn’t feel comfortable with wounded warrior projects. Growing success. And these were two of them and he was on those boards. And so he comes in. I believe in 2014 or 2015 I get the years a little bit off. It was after the Super Bowl. CBS dedicated the Super Bowl add to the Wounded Warrior Project, and I think he had something to do with it all. Good. So after that, he wants to be on the board of Wounded Warrior Project, and I asked Steve about this and I asked him other board members. Richard Jones didn’t talk to you know, I didn’t see any interview note for them. Well, the interview note that I do have in there is that he didn’t talk to me. Okay, um, when I show what I asked him, I asked all of the boardmember is the same thing, and nobody talked to me. But he was on the boards of these two other organizations that itself wouldn’t so much. It would raise a little bit of a red flag, but it would be disqualifying. I don’t believe, even though they might have known that these other two organizations were in opposition or really didn’t like W W. P. But there’s a lot of that going on. So it’s not the issue. The issue of the day. What really got my attention was that he was also a senior executive at CBS at the very time this was going on. And the criticism that CBS had of Wounded Warrior project was the very area that Richard really Jones was overseeing. I thought there was a conflict there and and a story I still do. You know, I feel it was very wrong, and I I’m I’m really interested in knowing why Richard Jones was allowed to be so much a part of not just wounded warrior project of the investigation that followed. Yeah, you question the board vetting of him when they when they invited him to come on, The fact that he’s a boardmember of two other competing organizations. Well, yeah, I do question esos veteran service organizations. Well, I don’t know that the other two are vey CVS. Oh, that’s a very specific designation. Okay, that’s okay. That same same world. And I wouldn’t call them. I would call him competing in the sense that they didn’t like Wounded Warrior project. They weren’t in the same league. And what I say that I’m not criticizing their size or anything there A lot of small organizations that are doing your job. It’s not that. But he came on and he he wanted a state and al to be fired. I did talk to board members who told me this that they he wanted them to be fired. And he insisted on the unanimous vote that they be fired. He insisted the vote be, you know, he was gonna He threatened to resign. That’s that’s strange. He threatened to resign if it wasn’t a unanimous vote to fire. Nor dizzy. And, uh um, Joe dahna. Yes. And this is, by the way, as a decide one person. It makes it sound so personal. Yes, it does, doesn’t it? Yeah. And then you have CBS doing this hit job, and it’s zee kind of a thicket of crazy questions coming around. All right, we gotta take, uh, take another break. We’re gonna bring in the charity evaluators, charity navigator and charity watch, too. Um, where are we now? We are with, um, Cougar Mountain Software, koegler Mountain. Simple to use. And the support is phenomenal. With a program like quick books, you don’t have support. If you don’t have support, it’s worth nothing. That’s quote Christine Christenson, the owner of Broomfield Cheap metal who uses obviously uses ku Commander. You can’t learn from a small business owner who loves the support at koegler Mountain. Of course you can. They have a free 60 day trial. You’ll find that on the listener landing page, which is at tony dot m a slash Cougar mountain. Now, time for Tony’s Take two your planned giving relationships. Um, when you, uh, inaugurate your plan giving program, you’re gonna be talking to people, mostly in their hundreds. I’ve never spoken to anyone over 100 but I’ve had probably hundreds of conversations with or thousands in all those decades but many, many with folks in their nineties. And, um, some of them are. It could be a little lonely and look for a little, you know, one a little more of your time on the personal side. And that could be a little risky for your plan giving program. And I flush that all out in, ah, my video. What to avoid in your plan giving relationships. And you will find that you know where to find that pizza that tony martignetti dot com and that is Tony. Stick to. Now let’s go back to, uh, Wounded Charity with Doug White, the author, teacher, the author, teacher consultant v. The author, teacher consultant to non-profits and philanthropist. Let’s bring in, um, charting. Navigator and charitywatch don’t have too many kind words. You have some, but not too much for these to charity rating organizations. No, I don’t. I think they should just stop doing what they’re doing. They’re doing more harm than good on that. It’s interesting you bring that up. I mean, they were a large part of the story, but there are a large part of the story in a couple of different ways. It’s because I wrote an article about Charity Navigator that came out in the Chronicle of Philanthropy that week in January 26. That was pure coincidence, right? It was pretty much a coincidence. I had put it in. But then the Wounded warrior project came in and I was able to add a sentence or two. I called Stacey and that the Chronicle. Stacy Palmer, editor dropping names, look atyou, dropping names. I call him Mr Palmer, but you know where Stacy? So we got a line in there. But it came out that week and it was Peter Hoener Camp who had been given that article by a friend of Hiss. And that’s why he called me. And that’s how I got in touch with wounded were how they got in touch with me Now going back to what charity navigator. Is it Zen evaluator way? OK, I don’t like them because they do a bad job. They they do not evaluate charities. They take numbers and they’re competent at dividing and adding and multiplying. But the relationship between those things, that is to say, what is spent on program or how much of CEO is paid or how much is spent on fund-raising or how many assets they have in the bank or whatever that is, is not direct indicator of how charity is doing in terms of its in terms of its work. And so they’ve been struggling with this for a very long time and trying to find this right mix the right algorithm. Well, there is no algorithm. That’s well, well, they have this former formulas and altum they wait certain things. They include certain things. They discount certain things, which is all very subjective. S o they It’s sort of it’s ah, it’s an objective product from a subjective process. You’re So you’re so right about that? I don’t know if you know this, Baxter. You know, I started I had forgotten that. But you, uh you have told me that in the past. Yeah, on dso Ken Berger. Very well. Who was Who was then the chair? I was CEO. Yeah, and I like him. I like him a lot. And I like Pat Dugan who funded charity navigator Pat Dugan had just sold out of his company, and I guess 2000 and that’s when I came out to be a consultant for him for a while, and he said, I want to know more about charities and he’s a good guy and he’s a kind of hardscrabble smart guy and wanted to do more in philanthropy in his life. And he said, If I can get the information, I can get this information out and help people understand how good charities are. And I said, The only thing we have that we can use is information from the 9 90 and there are lots of problems with that. The first problem is that it’s about a year and 1/2 to 2 years old, so you don’t really He wanted a morning star kind of a thing for charities, and it’s not gonna be the same in any way. The information on it is subjective because many people have. But there’s a lot of gray area in interpreting the 9 90 Yes, and finally I said you wouldn’t get married to someone if the only thing you knew about that person was her 10 40. It’s a relationship thes people have with the charity. It’s not just a matter of saying OK, you’re fund-raising efficiency is 20% whereas somebody else’s is better. And therefore, I’m gonna support that charity. I wanna go to a charity that I feel personally invested in in terms of the mission in terms of my own values. And so from that perspective, I said, We’re not gonna get very far in evaluating charity says That’s okay, I get it. I don’t really want anything more at this point. This is what we’re gonna do and besides the only information we have. So we did that. So all of that waiting and all of that has been revised many times. But it was very beginning. That’s what we did. But I always knew that it wasn’t the full story and it would never be the full story. It could never be the full story. Now that isn’t to say there can’t be a full story from other data or other information, but the charity world hasn’t yet gotten there, but that certainly doesn’t do it. But because there’s a vacuum, it fills that vacuum, and so people go to it. And Ken Burgers, predecessor Trump’s Trent Stamp, another super guy in a lot of ways, put charity navigator on the map. And so he became the go to for a lot of media in terms of questions about charities. And I just knew again I like Trent to a great deal. But they would be. He was being asked questions that had nothing to do with his work. A charity navigator like what kind of issues a charity would have with regard to its programs or something like that. And that’s not what Charity Navigator does. Yet it’s become this name of a new organization that knows everything about charities. And that’s not true. Let’s go, Thio. The reports come out, CBS News, New York Times, Charity Navigator and Charitywatch react. Well, What happened first was the charity navigator. Numbers were in the report and shared an advocator. Said that only 60% of the money was going toward programs. And wasn’t this a scandal and everything like that and s. So what happened was I talked to Ken Berger, and that’s in the book to I interviewed him and the reason that number was what it was. And I’m not thinking there’s anything generically wrong with 60%. Let’s get that straight right now. But put that aside for a moment, but it was higher than that because they were not charity. Navigator was not taking into account allocated costs that were being allocated to different Double Double Kid. You gotta read the book for that level of detail. Just get the damn book. But it’s not that complicated. I’ll say xero for readers. But the point being that charity Navigator disregarded both with G A P, the General Accounting Principles General, the accepted A Carroll accepted and the I. R s guidelines for doing this and charted every said. And Ken is very blond about this. We just didn’t take that into account. We just cut it off. So well, that’s not very fair, he said. Well, but the charity head of the opportunity to call us and correct it. So why is it up to them to call you to correct your mistake? Because they were up by almost 50%. It was like 85 instead of 60 was 85. Yes, yeah, yeah, and we don’t want to dwell on that number anyway, you know, there’s the whole overhead myth and, well, there is the biggest hypocrisy because, uh, charity navigator was the signature one of those I know. I had all three of them on the show when the letter when the overhead myth letter came out. Yes. I had Jacob, Harold and Ken Berger and Art Taylor on. Well, the other two were okay, but what did Ken Berger say to defend himself in that he’s the one who created the myth. So now he’s saying, OK, now we’re against that, right? I don’t get that. Yeah, I’m sorry. I’m getting a little bit. But I did have him on the show. That was, uh, October, October 2013. That letter came out. Um, that’s, um, other folks on the show to you. You opened with Dan piela and Brian mittendorf. Yes. Say both of them. They’ve both been on the go. Um, I don’t know what tooting my own horn, but this well, Danza show, do whatever the hell I want. Uh, they’re both good thinkers in this world. So damn very provocative. And he had a lot to say about one warrior project, Of course. Oh, you gotta read the book. You gotta be the book to find out. Exactly. I mean, everybody knows him from the Ted talk about the way we think about charities is what dead wrong. Okay, so we were Oh, it’s a charity navigator. In reaction to the reaction to the bad media charity Navigator puts them on what watch list or something or downgrades them. Right? The watch list thing. This is like This is so bizarre, Tony. I just can’t get my head around it still, and I’ve been swimming in this stuff for about 45 years now. So they put him on a watch list, and the watch list is nothing more than if unorganised ation is in the media in a negative way. They’re automatically put on the watch list because now we have some concerns about it. But now we have some concerns about it. So the funny thing is that a week or two later, right after that’s put on the watch list, CBS does another story saying Charity Navigator’s on the watch list. I Wonder Warrior Project. What? I’m sorry. Yeah, they put on the watch is by charitynavigator. Yeah, and the thing is bad. It was self perpetuating. But the other thing is that the story had nothing about being on the watch list. The story was just a rehash of other stuff they’d already right. So CBS wanted to grab this headline and then did nothing with it because there’s nothing to do with smaller organization Charity Raider Charitywatch. They did something similar. Yeah, they did in reaction to the media. Yeah, and they’re in the same ballpark I feel is charity Navigator when it comes to looking only at the numbers. Dan More shop. I don’t know if you’ve ever had him on. He’s out of Chicago. It’s a much smaller organization right on and again coming up with these ludicrous comments about the way charity should be run and no offence. Well, I guess I do mean to give offense. Let me be frank about my own intentions here. I don’t feel that Daniel Borisov is adding very much to the conversation about the charity world right now, and so I do criticize that, and if he’s going to sit there and criticize expenses, you should look in the mirror because his expenses with regard to his own salary a lot higher than anybody’s with regard to you. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, in relationship to the entire, but it’s like 1/2 $1,000,000. Your organization isn’t a tiny place. Okay, Um, all right. We still have another couple minutes before, uh, before before a break. Uhm All right, so they get this financial audit, it’s Simpson, Thatcher and f t. I. Very clean, with minor policy and procedure to minor things on you point out in a lot of detail the differences between the wounded warrior, project evaluation and the Clinton Foundation, but by the same firm Simpson Thatcher from, um, I guess we should start to, uh, hone in on the board a little bit. Now. You feel like it was left. Everything. Anything major out. I wanted to bring in the Richard Jones character. We left anything out. I mean, they were Well, yeah, jealousy. Okay, let’s take a look it for we analyze the boarding. Let’s look well, hard to analyze the board without Richard Jones being a part of it, and vice versa. But in terms of Jones role here he was the head of the audit committee, right? He’s the head of the Dam Art Committee that oversees the production of the 9 90 Yes, and he’s He’s flabbergasted by by these thieves. Media reports about overspending and lavish conferences. I’m sorry. Come back to take a break. Yeah. Let me get a break in. Because I know you’re on a roll for our last break. Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories and get media attention to those stories on and build support for your mission and your work. They do media relations, content marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. Doug and I were talking about the Chronicle of philanthropy, and the assistant editor of Chronicle of Philanthropy is former assistant editor Peter panepento is a principle of turn to communications there. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. We gotta get the live listener loving Doug White. You brought, uh, you said you were out soliciting listeners. We got a lot of lot of live love going out. Thio Duncan, South Carolina, New York, New York Glenside, Pennsylvania, Jacksonville, Florida, Charlotte, North Carolina. Close. Thank you. Close to Emerald Isle. Tip of Florida Tampa floor. Like I’m 14 my voice breaks Atlanta, Georgia in New Bern, North Carolina Even closer. My goodness. Live love to there. Um, before we go abroad, Wallingford, Connecticut, and field Connecticut, Oakland, California, Arlington, Virginia. Franconia, Virginia. I know. Franconia. I think I might know that is, uh, somebody might actually be listening to me instead of you, Doug. 11 person. Uh, maybe this too. Uh, live love out to all of you. Philadelphia P A as well. Huntington Park, California And thats everybody, you know, and, uh, Br What is this? California. Where That br What you’re writing there. Braila. Braila, California Live love to all our domestic live listeners. Thanks so much for being with us. Let’s go abroad. Thio El Salvador. Guatemala. Lord is Guatemala multiple Guatemala. Welcome. Welcome. Live love to you Guatemala. Um Brasilia, Brazil. So Juan Korea, Inchon, Korea and, uh, Machado’s Brazil as well. Wonderful. Multiple Brazil, multiple Guatemala. And, of course, our friends in South Korea. Always checking in live love to each of our live listeners. Thanks so much for being with us and the podcast pleasantries. That’s where you know. Not that we’re focused strictly on the numbers, but the vast majority does listen by the podcast live listeners. You’re welcome to join the podcast as well for times when you can’t catch us. Friday 1 to 2 eastern time join the over 30 13,000 people listening live listening on the podcast. So the pledges trees the pleasantries and the AMA said pageantry is but the passing key pattern trees and the pleasantries go out to the podcast. Listeners, thank you for being with us. Got butt loads more time for, Ah, Doug White and, uh, wounded charity. Okay, um, I got so effusive, but I forgot. Over what? What was I? Oh, that’s right. This guy, Richard Jones, is the chair of the audit committee, for Pete’s sake. Yes, go ahead, Tyr, the audit committee and you have to go back and look at that broadcast that CBS did that first night, but also all three. But in that first night, and it was like, Shaq, you’ve got this terrible 9 90 out, and I’m shocked, shocked to learn that there are in proprieties financial proprieties at the wounded warrior project. But the fact is, there weren’t any minute they weren’t that. In fact, they did a evaluation of all of the budgeting for the prior seven or eight years. An audit. They didn’t find anything out of place, Not a dime. That’s right. I gave a bad remark. That was a bad film reference because the French lieutenant’s exactly what’s going on. It is bad and yeah, that was That was a bad reference. That’s okay, because of what? It really wasn’t any gambling going on in this in this there was not. But but Richard Jones was a boardmember and was also a senior executive at CBS and also very involved with the veterans community is a highly regarded guy. I mean, you know, when it comes to anything personal or anything, nothing there. I wanna be clear that I have found nothing in these people’s lives. That or anything but stellar. But in terms of evaluating what happened here, we have to be clear. Yeah, it was It was a crisis and people reacted badly and the board, collectively failed, failed the organization. Right? And I would also be clear about that with regard to, as I mentioned before, Dave Phillips and also Chip Reid. Stellar reporters Chip Reid was the CBS Carson, this guy. So getting back to Richard Jones, the report comes back orally. Remember that it’s not been anything delivered in written format, and there’s a news conference that the wounded warrior project has on March. I believe it was 9 March nine and says this is what the results were. And on top of that, we’re getting rid of our two top guys that same night that came through. But during that month, when that that audit was taking place, Richard Jones was involved in the interviewing process. So here he is being involved in the interviewing process, along with Simpson Thatcher on matters that he was very much overseeing very much a part of overseeing at Wounded Warrior project, about how CBS had had written and reported its stories. So there’s, you know, I’m not stretching for this one. There was a conflict of interest there. He had a duty of loyalty to both his employer and because of his board relationship with Wounded Warrior Project duty of loyalty there. Yes, he did, as well as Karen Obedience. That’s correct. So the question that I have never been able to ask, even though I did accept the answer even though I did ask it, is why he was permitted to do that, why he wanted to do that. I suspect a couple of things. One is he could do whatever you want to do because he’s boardmember and you know that’s what they do. Sometimes he was also very influential. I think that and I wasn’t able to really put thes two dots together. But I think that his having been somewhat instrumental in getting the Super Bowl ad brought him into the full W W p. And nobody really thought anything about it at the time and even asked Steve, how did he come into the board? And I asked him, boardmember is how they how he came into the board and they really couldn’t remember any kind of moment. But one boardmember said that he was very upset that Jones did not disclose his relationships with the other two organizations. So here he is, and I’m thinking something is going on here. But that was on the relationships worrying his LinkedIn profile. Those relationships wearing Richard Jones is linked in profile. That is correct. The board would not have had to dive deep too far. You don’t need a private investigator to find those you’re making good pose board relationships. Yes, you are making good point for a moment there, after I had badgered him with thes e mails. I think his LinkedIn profile became not public. But then I went back. About a year later. It was there. So maybe it was my fault, I don’t know. But at any rate, he was in a curious place in this whole drama here. And so I began to wonder, Did this this ousting process begin? Well before this crisis and was the crisis basically invented? So I’m thinking that it waas on. It was fairly easy to get some disgruntled employees, but I don’t know why. Eric Millette, the face of the of the CBS reports, came out to be so negative against Wounded Warrior Project after he himself had been so effusively positive about Wounded Warrior Project had been rated best charity to work. That’s that’s all comes from employees ratings. Yes, I’m not making any of this stuff as I am, he’s saying, Oh, I have great thoughts about W. W. P. This is all external stuff, right? It was a couple of years in a row or something. It was it was number one or number two number one charity to work at for a couple of years in a row in there, like the top five for others. But there was this Facebook page of disgruntled employees who felt that there there was. There were firings for trivial reasons. And they felt if you didn’t fit in, you got fired, right? Is that the basis of basically what their complaints were? That is what their complaints were. But it’s funny because the firings were for cause and there is some fairly big deal firings. One guy was caught stealing from the from the till fundraiser, and two people following that were fired because they allowed it to happen. They knew it. And so it was the opposite of what you’d find in a scandal. They were doing everything you should just to stay clean. Al was really on top of that. He would. And the other thing I want to be clear about here is that these people loved Alan. Steve, Steve, Steve was in a very public place and and Alice always been in the operation side of it. But in my interviews, I don’t think I had one person that I interviewed who wouldn’t didn’t go out of his way to say, you know, if it weren’t for Al here, he is the CEO of this multi $1,000,000 organization. Hundreds of millions of dollars of or he’s the second guy CEO Seo. And he’s he’s taking time to get me through this crisis or that crisis or worked with the V A. They used to make calls. They would make the calls to some of the recipients of the services. Yes, because at its core, W, W, P, and all of the V esos and others exist because VH has some cracks in it. That’s yeah, that’s that’s flushed out of the booth. Got a by the book to get you to get that detail. There would be cracks no matter what. But there’s severe crisis. So Alice going through in trying to help them navigate this Byzantine system and they love for Al. It was overwhelming, all right, we need to switch to the board. Doesn’t wanna spend time positivity and bored, and what the board should have done it so clearly the board should not have silenced do not have been silent itself on. Dhe should not have silenced. It’s to it’s to talk to duck guys. Steve went to Tony, Tony oh, tea or no and said we have to have a strategy here. And he had already created some outlines for a strategy with Live Strong. And I think Coleman and another group who had gone through crises and what the fund-raising resulted in from that and they were not interested in pursuing that. Now they have the crisis coming up there. They’re winging it and doing a bad job of it, right? He had encouraged crisis management training long before this all happened. Yes, and they didn’t invite eso. No crisis management training could be very valuable for you, For you, for you and your board. That’s right. And I will speculate, and I have to label. This is speculation or opinion or whatever. I believe that the crisis was somewhat manufactured, right? Well, that’s the long marinating his job. So the board Okay, so you want to get to the board and I taught board governance for 20 years at N Y. U and Columbia. I still do this Southern University, so I think, and I think board governance is where it’s at when it comes to really understanding. Non-profits and non-profits don’t really advertiser. Their boards are. It’s always the CEO. It’s out there in the face of the public. And so we really don’t know what boards do or who they are, which is, I guess, OK, But they are your listeners to know they’re the guys who are really running the show from a strategic and long range perspective. And so they really are the decision makers when important issues come up on. And in this particular case, they, I think, made a lot of bad decisions. And, uh, toward the end, I think they let Steve and Al do what they needed to do. But Allen Steve always made sure that the board was on board and that the board’s suggestions and opinions were always taken into account. And there are examples in the book where that is proven to be true. So, boardmember, who says Stephen Al just flew off? We had no idea what was going on is demonstrably false. Yeah, that all these right? All the lavish conferences the board had approved the conference expenses. You point that out? Yes, and they were sighted at $3 million they were under $1 million in one example Almost almost 30. Yeah, Exactly. Okay. What else? What else can. Non-profit takeaway. Well, board wise, it’s not. Everybody’s going to be in the cross hairs like Wounded Warrior Project. So it’s It’s a specific organisation there, but any organization can be caught and to be in trouble. So what should be? What should aboard do? The board should have a tremendous relationship with its senior staff. If there’s a bad relationship with the senior staff that has to be taken care of before anything else is done, that might mean getting rid of a few board members that might be get mean, getting rid of the senior staff. Make sure that’s there. The thing is, the thing about this is that was the case. There was a good relationship between Steven now and the board. But the problem is, and I think this is where Richard Jones played an oversized role in the whole process. They were allowed Thio fire these guys a Ziff. They deserved it and they didn’t deserve it. And so the board, the board has to be on top of this from a public relations perspective as well as an operational one, in my view, and the public relations perspective is not unimportant, it’s not just the dressing on the whole thing. It’s what’s really ruined. Or, I should say hurt. Not ruined. Hurt. Wounded Warrior project. Since that day, they have lost over 1/2 a $1,000,000,000 in revenue. The half 600 I think $50 million in revenue from that day in the last three years take caution. Get the book because there’s there’s a lot more detail that we were not able to cover. It is wounded Charity lessons learned from the Wounded Warrior Project Crisis, published early October, But you can advance by it on on Amazon. I know for a fact again, he’s Doug White, author, teacher and advisor to non-profit organizations and philanthropists. Thank you so much, Doug. It’s been a pleasure to see you again minded get mine as well. Next week, I’m working on it. I have I ever let you down? There was that one time with the fermentation show, but that was so long ago. I was I was only 52 then. Youthful indiscretion on that show. Um, if you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers record. Cps dot com by koegler Mountain Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn to communications, PR and content for non-profits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. A creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is By Scott Steiner, Brooklyn. They’re with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking Alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential Live Life, Your Way on talk radio dot N Y C. I’m the aptly named host of Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% fund-raising board relations, social media. My guests and I cover everything that small and midsize shops struggle with. If you have big dreams and a small budget, you have a home at Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Friday’s 1 to 2 Eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant and on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant. Our Awakening Humanity. Thursday’s 12 noon on talk radio dot You’re listening to Talking Alternative Network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting 24 hours a day. You know, do you love or are you intrigued about New York City and its neighborhoods? I’m Jeff Goodman, host of Rediscovering New York Weekly showed that showcases New York’s history, and it’s extraordinary neighborhoods. Every Tuesday live at 7 p.m. We focus on a particular neighborhood and explore its history. It’s vibe. It’s field and its energy tune and live every Tuesday at 7 p.m. On talk radio dahna, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network.

Nonprofit Radio for July 28, 2017: 350th Nonprofit Radio

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s our three hundred fifty and show you heard that live music scott stein is with us and lots of other people. Thank you, scotty, you’re welcome. We’ve got two listeners of the week first. Dan kimble he’s, a product specialist at apple, owes software he’s always tweeting and retweeting aboutthe show very grateful. This week, he posted congrats to tony martignetti and his upcoming anniversary show, grateful for you’re and mr show, grateful for your promotion of non-profit work. Dan, i’m grateful to you for your support of non-profit radio. Thank you so much. Congratulations on being a listener the week on show number three hundred fifty also fund-raising fox they’re on the road right now between buffalo grove, illinois and downtown chicago. They tweeted that this will be great road trip listening to which i retorted, this is like an hour trip from buffalo grove to chicago that’s like that’s a commute? Not a not a, not a that’s, not a road trip, but okay, if you insist, maybe in chicago that’s a road trip congratulations. Fund-raising fox drive carefully even though you’re only going across the street, thanks for being with us on three fifty oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with copper. Oh, poor foreign yuria! If you wet me down with the idea that you missed today’s show, it is the three hundred fifty of show seventh anniversary of non-profit radio coast clear meyerhoff is with us with me live in the studio. We’ve got that live music and more to come give aways from pursuing and cure a coffee all our contributors jane takagi, maria semple and amy sample ward, our sponsor ceos are going to be with us. I’ve got new am and fm affiliate stations to introduce we got non-profit medio math quiz and i’m already exhausted. We’re on facebook live! Check us out right now from the tony martignetti non-profit radio page facebook live! We’re also live tweeting, join us! Use the hashtag non-profit radio on tony’s take two thank you. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com tomorrow half welcome back to the studio, tony. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Wonderful to be here for the three hundred and fiftieth show. Thank you. Yes, i love it. You’re the creative producer of the show. Of course. Thank you. I helped you start the show from one back when it was the tony martignetti show for two weeks back in the day two thousand ten also? Yes, of course. There’s a seventh anniversary seventeen minus ten seventh anniversary president of plant giving agency that’s me, you’ll find claire at pg agency, dot com and at claire says z what’s going on climber half what’s up in your what’s up in the pg agency. Well, we’re working on a lot of different projects. I’ve got a lot of wonderful clients and working with parkland hospital foundation in dallas. Cool, a couple of other clients in texas and a couple clients in florida and ah, united way and lots of different people. And i’m staying here in new york for a couple days of my friend bette’s house in westchester county, and i drove into the city this morning with the convertible top down and here i am, cool it’s a beautiful day for a top you drive to scott stein. Welcome back to studio. Thank you for having me. Great seeing my pleasure. Of course. Scott’s dying. The composer of our theme song. My voice is cracked theme song like i’m fourteen cheap red wine of course you’re gonna be playing cheap red wine on dh another wine related song as well you’ll find him at scott stein music dot com don’t go to scott’s stein dot com i did that that somebody it’s an australian motivations motivational speaker don’t go to stop sign dot com go to scott’s in-kind music dot com and he’s at scott’s time music also so glad you’re with us. Great beer. Cool. Cool. Uh, we got, uh we got track record on the phone. He is the ceo of pursuant to years, sponsor of non-profit radio. The renewing way with us to the end of the year. So grateful for that. So so grateful for pursuance, sponsorship and love of non-profit radio trade ryker, welcome to the show. Tony. How you doing today? It’s? Great it’s. A beautiful day for three. Fifty how are you doing in where you from? In texas. Where? You calling from? I’m in the dallas area. The big d. Okay, cool. I want to thank you. I want to thank you so much. Not only for being here today, but for pursuing sponsorship of non-profit radio. Well, tell me, first of all, congratulations. Three hundred fifty episodes. What a milestone. Unbelievable. We appreciate so much. See great work that you and the other sponsors provide the opportunity for you to do for the non-profit states your gift way. Love what you do, and they’re just proud to be a sponsor. Thanks, tony. Thank you so much, trent. Um, you you are so generous at pursuing there’s there’s. This constant resource is available. I mean, i’m talking about them every single week. It’s webinars info. Grams. Content papers? Uh, it’s it’s. Amazing how generous you are. What? What? Acquaintance with what’s coming up for pursuing the rest of this year. Well, a lot going on. Thank you for that. We really believe in giving back the non-profit states in any way. We can. We learn a lot by working with our clients were in partnership with them always. We’re always thirsty. Learn mohr and then share what we learn. Through a variety of webinars and white papers and other things that we do, no matter how large or how small you are, we’re hopeful ableto help some folks out, you know, for the second half of the year, we’ve been working hard on something that over the years we’ve learned things. One of the things that i think most important is that the smaller non-cash profits that don’t have the resources to hyre firms to help him out of that at a deep level, we’re trying to make some of those tools more accessible youand your listeners have known that we’ve been working on that for a while, wade got some exciting things on the horizon to make better sense of all that data out there that that folks have and be able to make that more actionable and getting better results without having that we’re not having to spend a lot of money, so we’re driven by by creating tools, you know, i think that that’s an opportunity out there right now, there’s more competition than ever out there for the same dollars and stay on top of mind for your constituents and being able to keep up. In that to a conversation is really important, and while there are a lot of great point tools out there would like to call them, and we encourage everybody to use things like that that are free or very inexpensive with non-profit states being able to pull that data together being ableto you have the appropriate relevant conversations to your here’s donors and your prospects and volunteers on your advocate, you are really important so that some of the stuff we’re working on cool and, you know, small and midsize non-profits that’s the audience, you know, where we’re big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, and i’m always saying every week, actually, a couple times a week pursuant data driven technology enable ana, i know and that’s that’s a big no that is a challenge area for small and midsize shops. Yeah, not always accessible, i think you know the big non-profits have a lot more resources, and while we appreciate the opportunity to work with them and learn from them, i’m really driven for the drive system for the quote unquote little guy, the small, the medium sized non-profit that’s passionate about what they’re doing and that most of the time spent, you know, driving for the mission of the organization and fund-raising is an important aspect of that, but how do we make that more simple? How do we make it more accessible? How do we make it more affordable? And so i think that the market will be really excited about some of the stuff that we’ll be bringing out twenty eighteen by way of tools to apply all of that. We’re taking the concepts that you hear out there about business intelligence and artificial intelligence, predictive modeling, and we’re going to simplify that to make it as easy as the way you might use google maps and make it easy for the smaller, medium sized non-profit put it to use and to raise more money and more connected to their constituents. That’s what’s really important, excellent trench. Well, i look forward to sharing the word of all that stuff as it comes out with our with our audience with our over twelve thousand growing on die again. I know you’ve got to go and i thank you very much again for your support of non-profit radio. Thanks so much for being with us, trent. Congratulations, tony. And everybody out there keep supporting tony and the great work that he does. Keep up the good work for your non-profit have a great show, tony, and keep up. Keep it going. All right. Cool. Thank you very much, trent. So long. All right. We’re gonna go out for a first break. We got tons more coming up. Oh, my god. We’re just scratching the surface for god’s sake. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent reminded we’re on facebook live got some folks with us shout out tio maria simple is there dave lynn, thank you so much. Uh, who else we got? Gary astro cool welcome shoutouts to facebook live! You can join us at the tony martignetti non-profit radio page were also live tweeting used the hashtag non-profit radio. Join the conversation on twitter um, we got a we got to give away let’s do a giveaway we’ve got got coffee gif ts from cura coffee and we’re giving our first pound of coffee too silver mark he’s at this is ah, his twitter idea at silver mark make-a-wish did three hundred fifty is awfully nifty returns of the day for those great things you say i mean, you know that’s, you got to give you got to give some kudos for creativity not great! Those are not great lyrics, but that’s just our okay cheats memorable! I think he may have used it may be recycled. He may have used that for another contest. I don’t know, but that silver mark, thank you so much you’re going to get a pound of coffee from cura coffee and claire, won’t you tell us about your coffee? Cure a coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. With every cup of courage, you’re joined your effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. We are direct trade, a direct trade coffee company with direct impact brought directly to you, creating organic smiles beyond the cup. Cure coffee, dotcom. Thank you, claire. In that beautiful radio voice, she’s got that. She talked pretty talk pretty good. My abc radio cbs radio serious. You left off serial. I work too serious. Serious. Next time. Don’t be modest. I was then except when they launched on september twelfth, two thousand won cool. Oh, that xero auspicious. That you know that and i get it. You know, again shadow to cure a coffee. Coffee. The ceo is a dentist. He’s practicing dentist that’s. Why? When you get a pound of cure a coffee that’s, why they when you get a compound of your coffee, the gift goes, goes to silver. Mark will include a toothbrush and i think luke’s dental floss. But there’s aural. Care? Yes, because that’s. Why, he says. He says expanding sustainable dental care to remote communities they’re they’re giving back to the communities where the coffee beans are raised. Dental care, they’re giving money for dental care in those communities, communities and in central and south america. On he is a he’s a practicing dentist. He couldn’t be with us. I beg him to couldn’t make it he’s between patients, you know, he’s doing a root canals. You know, it’s got saliva around everything all right? Um, scotty, you cannot i want you to play first song for us. Sure. Um again, scott scott stein, now a pianist, songwriter, vocalist, composer, arranger tell us what you’re gonna play first. I’m gonna play a tune from the record that i just put out just a little bit ago the records called travelling companion and the song is called wine soaked tart we’re keeping ah, wine theme here we do. We got cheap red wine, wine soaked tart. People are going to get the wrong impression of me here, you know, but it’s ah it’s a little tune that way have this idea that as songwriters in his artist we have to be, you know, really down in the dumps to really, like, create great music, you know, you have to really be eo, suffer for your art and it’s not true. It helps it’s, not total teacher. But this is something that is not what kind of zooming out and kind of, you know, being grateful for for what you have i was i was on honeymoon with my wife when i woke up in the middle of the night with the idea for the song, okay? And scott stein, wine soaked heart off his newest album, traveling companion. Dahna i love what you give me. You lying so tired, let me ramble through the square like this september breeze is used to know, nor would you give me your line so tar, let me pull it all together. Then they pull my fuse, paul. Sametz it’s six in the morning and i can’t sleep. It was lying about a strange hotel bed. Buy-in sounds of my lover. Do not keep me waiting. Just the ryland to the rumblings bouncing around inside my head. I what would you give me your wine? So tar, let me revel, sing in the shadow of the spanish hill. You know what, give you wine so let me pull it all together. Limit my fuse part. It’s been a long time coming, but we made it here going to step out on the block, and the noise is going to get off the grid. Tune out everybody but the one i love. Let the world revolve around us like a couple of barefoot kid. Oh, yeah. Love to give me a wine. So tar buy-in let me ram on the land of the authors in the poet it’s on the scene. Lorts give you wine. So tar. Let me pull it all together to limit my bar for my future. Call it predictable. I don’t care. U b roll footage. Cue the montage here. The movie strings. You only get so many years. Be so self aware before the exterior starts to fade in. On this left are the important thing. Duitz because you want forever with a wild, wild heart. What would you give me your line? So tar? So down, breathing him. Don’t try to think so much law to give me a line. So tar, let me pull it all together. My fuse, par. Put my fears apart. Buy-in got stein one so tart thie album is traveling companion. Get the album at scott stein music dot com scottie, thank you so much. Thank you, absolutely love it, love it and there’s more to come. We got we got course, cheap red wine coming up, indulge me while i announce a couple of new affiliate stations. Would you please? All right. W p h w in harpswell, maine live listener love to you. Ah, philly. In effect, i should say affiliate affections to w p h w so glad you’re with us. They’re in the freeport brunswick area of maine, just northeast of portland. Welcome. Welcome to the affiliate community. W p h w also cabe og ki bong ninety seven point nine fm in bandon, oregon. And that is oregon, not oregon. There’s no. E at the end of oregon, oregon offgrid admonished it’s, oregon. Brandon, oregon. There are pacifica station that’s. Very cool on. They happen to be all along the pacific coast in county, oregon. Now, why’re they k bog. I found out k bog glamarys come off cranberries. Very organ is a very big cranberry producing state. Really? And this region of of oregon is bandon is the cranberry capital of oregon. Really cool. Have you been to argue? Okay, bob, i’ve been to oregon. I’ve been to portland. I’m joined a portland for the organ for the first time this october. And then i will only have two states in the us. I have not visited well, that’s very and north when you’re so young through so i need to oh, thank you. I need to get a speaking engagement in alaska and in alaska, north dakota. Okay, that should be well. North dakota is easy, one for you. North dakota sametz least visited st in united states. Listen, alaska people threat well, the glaciers that while there, while we have them, okay, that that’s very cool, you’re going tohave portland. You’re really a great food scene. Great fruiting, love, ah, really quirky place. So our new affiliate stations w p h w and k b o g. Welcome to the affiliate community affiliate affections to those listeners. I’ve got more stations coming up. We got jean takagi on the line. I know we do. Jean takagi is the principle of neo, the non-profit exempt organizations. More group he’s at g tak e ta ke yet it’s. The wildly popular non-profit lob log dot com. Hello, jean takagi. Happy anniversary, tony. Congratulations on three. Fifty. Thank you, man. That’s so cool. Thank you very much. I’m so glad you’ve been with us so so many years from the very early days you were you were one of the very first shows, like you were in, like the first, fourth or fifth show or so and, uh, contributor sense. Really geever it’s been awesome, but you have to come back and visit me here in san francisco. I know. Well, you should come. You know, you could come to new york. I did visit you once in san francisco years ago. But you could come to new york, too. That invitation is open. You could come to the beach in north carolina if you like peaches. That’s tony’s having a big, fat oregon. Maybe we can all meet there in oregon. That’s. Not too far. Yeah, but i’m thinking about a fall trip, actually out west. So i will. I will let you know. Just you know, jeanne, i i emailed this to you a lot, but i want to say it to you. You know, i’m so grateful for the time that you put in for the listeners. Of small from small and non-profit med small and midsize shops it’s a non-profit radio so grateful for the time contribution you make, you know, month after month, you red block posts about the show. When you’re gonna be on, you’re a terrific i just i’m so grateful to have you as our legal contributor. Thank you so much, james. Thank you, tony. Thank you for making all of this information from all of your great contributors available. Teo non-profit sector it’s it’s. Invaluable. Thank you. Uh, what do you got going on, gene? But you got a little little takeaway. Will tip you wanna leave? Leave us with? Sure. You know, i thought i’d talk really briefly about having a politician appear in your charity event. We recently had way did have someone forced chamber. Yeah, it got a lot of attention, so i didn’t talk about that specifically wanted to make sure everybody knew that political leaders can be invited to speak on issues of public policy and issues of importance that charity events. But you’ve got to be careful about it, so make sure you know five oh one see threes aren’t allowed to engage in election. Nearing, so provide instructions to the politicians or their staff, people about not campaign campaigning or speaking on political campaign issues. Uh, you know, at the charity event, and if they start campaigning, you might choose to interrupt politely and strategically, if possible. You know, sometimes that may not be possible if it’s the president of the united states, that might be very, very politically challenging to do that. But afterwards, don’t wait long at the end of the speech of possible make a statement about the charity being a partisans uh, organization don’t wait several days and have the statement come from the top of your leadership. So jean, what is the worst case scenario that could happen to a five a one? C three non-profit if, for instance, a candidate came and super campaigned and broke all those rules and you didn’t do anything about it, what’s what could happen? What’s the outcome right now, the rules say the remedy is taking away its five a onesie three tax exempt status so that’s the rule you know, right now in the political climate, president trump and the republican party platform say that they want to get rid of that rule, but they haven’t gotten rid of that ruled yet, so they would actually like to open up election hearing toe all five, twenty three public charities. But that hasn’t happened yet, and it may never happen. We hope that it doesn’t happen, but the rule right now don’t let it happen because you could lose your tax. Exempt that claire’s got another question for another question. Have you heard about a cherry that has lost its tax exempt status? Because of that? Yeah, it happens pretty rarely and particularly much more rarely. I haven’t heard of any since the new administration. But you would see a handful every year lose their tax exempt status for just that reason. Okay. Interesting. Cool. Very timely topic as always. Jean jean takagi, always on top of things s oh, so grateful, gene. Thank you so much. Thanks. What a pleasure. Thanks, tony. Thanks, clarence. Got have a great thank you. Thanks for your good wishes. So long, gene. We got we got alex career alt-right not not yet. Okay, we’ll get to him. Um, let’s. Um, let’s. Take our little break. Then we got we got we got a little business. Actually, but we have tons of stuff coming up. You still got the math quiz? We got more giveaways. I got morning am and fm stations. We got live listener love coming up. I gotta do the live listening. But look at this for those of us, those on facebook like this list of live listeners amazing it’s a scrolling off the printer, the live listeners we’ve got. And, of course, on the heels of that comes the affiliate affections on the podcast pleasantries, cheap red wine coming up all that first you got to give a shout to pursuant we know them. We just met the ceo but i got eggs. I got to do my promotional thing because i do want you to check them out for the free resource. Is that that trade? And i were talking about infographics, content, papers, webinars. And even even if it’s paid trainings and we have a great prize coming up great grand prize that’s all i am permitted to say at this moment about the grand prize but it’s related to this? Just check them out for resource is tons of stuff for free. They are data driven. It’s it’s. Not just a tagline for them. They help you work with data sorted out, figured out, use it, so you’re not overwhelmed. Check him out. Pursuing dot com quick resource is all the stuff is right there, and we’ll be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. They make millennial money, these air, these air really cool. Claire, they it’s a night for your charity, it’s, live music, dancing, stand up comedy, and they work in fund-raising through spelling bee that’s fun, because millennials are really spelling peer-to-peer. The resident millennial. I feel like i have to confirm this, okay, when you write your lyrics, they’re spelled correctly, yes, what, nobody sigh, and nobody sees them, right. Okay, check out they have a video, they’re really cool. Video show you what a night is like for your charity, it’s, that we b e spelling dot com and then just talked to alexx career, and hopefully we’re gonna be talking to him shortly. And i gotta do tony steak to now, which is my thank you too the way it goes from the people who are just with us today live on facebook hello, thank you for that. But the listeners the over twelve thousand listeners i’m just so grateful that the audience has grown so much in seven years. Thank you, thank you for being part of non-profit radio the trend is always upwards. I’m grateful for that if you let me in your inbox every thursday through the insider alerts, which if you’re not getting them, you can get them at tony martignetti dot com. Thank you for letting me in your inbox every single week. If it’s youtube our fans, their subscribers, they’re on youtube there’s a new video every week twitter, thanks so much for following me reach meeting this show tweeting about the show just enormous, enormously grateful i just got us you know this is an anniversary time to time to say thank you, thanks so much. And speaking of the latest video aside from the three fiftieth which you don’t need now because you got to show you don’t need the previous video, you might check. Out the one that i did most recently before that it was feels good in sixty nine and that’s all i can say about that video, you just have to watch to see what the sixty nine is all about. And, of course, that’s at tony martignetti dot com feels good in sixty nine, and that is tony stick to we got maria simple online. I’ll bet we don’t have a reassembly yet. Wow. Okay, i’ll tell you what, let’s do a little math quiz clay morrow, because i’m really good at math. So exactly, um, and i’m a lawyer. So we picked a non-profit radio math quiz. So you know, we’re gonna sing a song writer writer on dh lawyer, former engineering student i story story for you to bring your slide rule uh, i can not write. Or your engineer, you may need your engineering calculator for those. Ok. Ok. So here’s here’s the math quiz? Because tony’s been doing this show for a long time now, since since twenty ten, it’s a lot of shows that he’s very prolific. We have three hundred fifty shows, so i’d like to kind of figure out some things that some numbers that we’ve accomplished over the years. So would you say how many guests average per show phone and live in studio? Yeah. Live in studio and then plus you gotta bring in the conference guests. I mean, sometimes there’s like three and four panellists. I’d say average. Okay, average, uh, one point seven three let’s. Say two. Okay, let’s round it. So three hundred eighty shows. Two guest per show we have. Who gets it first? How many is that? I hope that i hope that some hope that seven hundred, seven hundred okay, so how many steps are there to climb up the stairs from seventy second west? Seventy second street to the studio here. Oh, you could take the staircase around here. I do it all the time. How many steps? Which is saying? Oh, sam, sam sametz again. Twenty. So twenty steps, times two hundred fifty shows is that’s. Got to be that’s. Gotta be the same. Seven thousand fifty seven thousand. Scott so you did bring a slide rule? I yes. Yes. It’s right in here. All right, all right, all right. So, tony and scott, how many times during each show would you say scott’s music is played during each show. Oh, that’s a cool oh, that’s like how many times is the number one appear on a dollar bill? One, two, three for i’d say it’s probably five. I’m thinking five so what’s time to a two hundred fifty. I don’t know the seven, seventeen, fourteen hundred plus three. Fifteen degree was kottler against that’s got with all right. All right, i swear i’m not i’m not just like peeking over the over the engineering because a ringer is i didn’t know that, it’s. All right? I don’t know. Who’s going to bring her. Okay. How many times have you taken the show on the road? Oh, my gosh! Conferences. Oh, that’s. Probably like, i’m afraid that’s an easy one. Well, ten. So let’s say eleven. So what percentage i can’t even do? The percentage of eleven of the three hundred fifty shows are were shows on the road but you cut me off the delays. I get more than one interview per unconference less now last non-profit technology cover. That was twenty, thirty two interviews in one conference. So there’s thirty two right there, right in three, two and half days. I got thirty two interviews, i’d say probably come away with twenty times eleven conferences. That will be two hundred twenty interviews out of no, that can’t be right. Two hundred twenty. That sounds too high. No that’s. Not right. What am i doing wrong? It’s probably not that high it’s probably it’s. Probably been like one hundred. Oh, those air segments that you’re messing me up. Segments two segments per show. So seven hundred segments. Two hundred let’s. Say, two hundred something two hundred twenty five of those maybe have been conferences or so two hundred out of seven hundred segments. Okay, so the last questions for may out of seven years of shows, i probably come and do it live. Maybe, like, three times a year. So i’ve been here maybe twenty one times. Uh, yeah. In the early days. Yeah. You’re blowing me off in the early days? No, i invited you all time. You never came up? No, i yeah, don’t twenty more. That sounds like a lot. And you know, the last time i was here in the studio, i left tony and i saw another man who works in broadcasting. I met someone. Really? Really. Cool. Right after i left tony show. Oh, you met lester. Lester holt? Yeah, i went down to nbc and lester home. You’ve treated me a picture. You facebook me a picture of you and lester. So today stepped down, you know, the talking alternative studios where we are live on nbc, and then i guess you could go down, continue going down on the show to last. So what are you doing in new york? I said i have clients here and stuff like this came from this non-profit radio show. Oh, and cause i realized later that lester worked in radio. So radio people like even if they end up working in tv or whatever, they still really love stick todo zoho he’s. His eyes lit up when i said, ready brady was cool. Absolutely, absolutely. All right. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for the non-profit. Your math quiz created, produced. This is what she’s, the creative producer. Well, what a surprise. No surprise. Came up with this last night. Like eleven. Thirty my maria semple, decide your simple cold. And i was actually calling on her a little early because she was not at fault when i said maria symbols online, but she is now anyway. Fremery a sample. Hello there, how are you our social media contributor? Immense. I’m sorry prospect restarts contributor. I’m doing great, our prospect research contributors. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and she’s at maria semple on, and she has been a long standing oh gosh, but going back also many years hyre contributor to non-profit radio. Thank you, maria, thank you so much for the time you put in a month after month for our listeners. Thanks so much for my pleasure and congratulations on three hundred fifty and looking forward to three hundred fifty more. Oh oh, my god, they’ll be seven hundred. Okay, i don’t know what i’ll be another seventy years. Oh, my god will be forty. What is that? Twenty, twenty four? Um now cool. Where you now? Where you calling from? Maria semple? I am in new jersey. You’re home in jersey, okay, cool. Very simple loves the new song you facebook live. Do you love scott’s new song? Thank you. Yes, i did. I really liked it a lot. I’m gonna have to go see where i can find it. I think he said it was scott stein music dot com. So i jot that down that’s exactly right. And get the album. Traveling companion. Yeah, she lives out facebook live. All right. Um, summary of you. You got a little tidbit for us today in respect, research land. What do you see? It’s one on there? Yeah, well, you know, i thought it was just kind of focused on teamwork a little bit because, uh, sort of staying in the spirit of, you know, your three hundred fifty shows wouldn’t have happened with without a lot of teamwork there in the studio and from your regular contributors and so forth and all the conferences you’ve attended and really focusing on how important prospect researches to the development process. But that really it’s only one component of the development process on and really try to encourage folks if if you’re wearing that, that prospect research had either as a your sole function within the organization, or maybe one of the functions that you do and your everyday job to try not to work in a vacuum and to try and get a seat at the table. If you can try and see if you will be allowed to attend those development committee meetings and so forth to really play a role in the overall development cycle so that information that you’re able to glean from important conversations can be incorporated into the work that you d’oh alright, it takes a village. It takes a village, is what you’re saying. I think it takes a community text community to raise money and number, and, well, of course, non-profit radio is a part of that, but so is prospect research. All right, the team approach i love thank you for shouting out the team. We do have a great team. We do have an excellent, cool team. I shot them out of the end of every show. Claire scott, sam. Oh, our social media, social media, of course. Social media, susan chavez, all part of the team. Yes, thank you for that. Thank you so much. Cool. Maria, i want to thank you so much again for being part of the show. Thank you very much. And again, wishing you many, many more. Thank you, maria. I gotta give shut out to people who are with us on facebook live. We got we got tons more still. Aunt mary. I know her on david insta with us. Gary astro jimbo xero welcome, jim dahna gillespie rivera ray meyer mary-jo chamberlain michelle libonati oh, my god. Old good friends. Thank you. Thanks for being with us. You could join us on facebook live at tony martignetti non-profit radio page and we’re also live tweeting and use the hashtag non-profit radio. Is that true? That’s true, isn’t it? Um, let’s. See, we got a make on line. Scott. Sam. Any buy-in the line? Okay, then, uh, let’s. Go to i got some new ah, so new affiliate stations and i’d like to welcome. We’ll continue bilich community absolutely am fm stations throughout the country. We got a new one. Que tiene que eighty eight point one fm carbondale, colorado and w c s q one o five point nine fm radio coble skill in upstate new york. I know. That you know, couples skill. Well, i went to plattsburgh state, so i know you would know. Yeah, i know. Yes. Did you know is it’s uh, you know, that’s coble skill, not kabul skill. It’s it was called didn’t know. I didn’t know that i do now, but it’s spelled like kabul, but it’s coble told only one day only one b all right, thank you very much. Like right would be no e at the end of oregon. Okay, you’re right. Couple would be all right. My gobble kabul it’s coble it’s called bilich latto global scale koegler and i’m so glad they’re with us that’s w c s q one o five point nine fm andi i know couple skills. I got a ticket there once. Yeah, it doesn’t. Eighty eight, i think route eighty eight. I don’t know. Interesting fremery take out there, but i’ve got to take a lot of other places in upstate. You got you got a tear, right? Hearing even all the good places. Saratoga, you got a parking ticket right here on seventy second street after one show. That’s a parking ticket that was parking moving violations, or you’re in the big time. Yeah, i did get one. You’re you’re coping skill. I’m pretty sure it was on eighty eight. You gotta hire a lawyer when you get a speeding ticket. That’s the best thing to do. I had to do that once, actually in virginia? Yep. Virginia. You know what? Because anything over eighty, of course, that was not me. I saw it on a sign. But if you happen to be one who was pulled over for dui strike more than eighty is reckless driving. I’ve been there. You get you get a misdemeanor. You know, mr metoo convey. Imagine if you sign the back of that ticket. Mr metoo conviction in virginia for doing over more than twenty miles per hour over the speed limit or over eighty miles per hour. But you could. So i’ve heard you can hire an attorney. You know, they send you letters and for a very reasonable about they’ll take care of it. And the lawyer that took care of mine, i chose his letter out of about twenty letters because his name was will robinson. Oh, cool. Thank will robinson. I didn’t get that was virginia. That was virginia. Virginia. I didn’t get here because i would have picked him through. Thank you. Will robinson? Yes. Be careful in virginia on ninety five. I’ve heard it could be bad. So, yes, eso brand new stations now in main oregon, colorado in new york. So lots of new affiliate affections going out when? When we get to that. So so many affiliates do we have a terrestrial radio? Couple dozen. I really don’t know the exact number. Look where they ended up partying more than twenty. Woman. Twenty. So a score score was more than a score. We gotta score. Plus more than stone. Just don’t get that matthew’s teo what’s that teo give our leaders. Tio penn was that old word for a for a ten cent piece. Whatever a dime in the tie. I can’t remember to bits. We got to bet your two bits worth of that isn’t isn’t cubine oh, is it that those dying what’s two bits i don’t want it was a dime. Now two bits a quarter. We’re almost a two bit we could were around to putting wimpy say, it’s worth burglar hamburger um okay, let’s. See, uh, i want to i want to. Do some more music. Yeah, i’m ready for more music. Scotty stein. Oh, it’s, time for the time, for the theme of non-profit latto now, this is this is legit. I never stole this music from scott start. We have, we have no way of really license, license and he’s been with the show ever since. It’s a couple of years now, you know, i didn’t go back and look at when the licensing agreement started, but if you have been a few years, yeah, cheap red wine, this is scott’s dying cheaper what what’s the album, the cheaper ones snusz from a two thousand nine record, i did called jukebox and get their jukebox. I’ve seen him live ilsen him in and bars clubs. I’ve seen him do cheap red wine a few times. Scott stein, the theme song for non-profit radio, cheap red wine, all right. To be, they just keep on talking sooner. Later, i figure around just so what you mean. You see, in romantic advice from a village, i’m looking for answers upon a tv screen. Buy-in wait can agree on nothing. We can’t tell our ups from our downs. We’re disappointed in each other. Nothing baby. And i love that we have found. You know, you used to find me charming, but i can’t figure out how. And you said you thought it was handsome. But doesn’t matter now. So keep falling. Five foot sounds as long as your time. Well, because i haven’t got any promises about a cheap one and down. You know, some girls live in diamonds. And they won’t talk to the cut of clothing that i wear. Well, i’m reporting for the good stuff, and you’re too easily distracted to care, relying got too many options, and so i’m gonna do the best that i can, but you have some competition one day when i’m a wealthy man said, you know, you used to find a job, but i can’t figure out how you see your toes, and it doesn’t matter now. So came falling from my post as loans. Your time will allow, because i’ve got a runny promises by achi, brenna wine and wait let’s, raise the glasses. You drink the better days. The other people’s kids are. They don’t like the things we say, and i’m thinking, because of everything that i want flash nothing. Three signs his work permit for each other, as long as with you, nobody else in my nobody’s way. What? You know, you used to find the jumping, but i can’t figure out how and you see, your father was handsome. Never mind it. Don’t matter now, so get for from a punch on monday, tom. Allow about her any promises, a cheaper one. Teo. Yeah, man, that song is under my skin. I can’t help it. I just love i just love cheap red wine from the first moment i heard i knew it had to be the thing that theme song thank you so much. Thank you for your, you know, for communion to have me on and getting congratulations every fifty and, uh, you know, supporting local independent music. Absolutely. Absolutely love it. Thank you. I’m glad you’re part of the show chanpreet out every time. Every time we got we got alex career alex were called and he’s the ceo of we’d be spelling you hear me? Talk about it every single every single week. Super cool spelling bee fundraisers we be spelling dot com. Hey, alex. Career. Hey, what’s up. Tony, how you doing? I’m doing great. How are you? I’m doing fantastic. Thanks so much for having me on for the three hundred and fifty of the exciting stuff. Absolutely. I just wanted to hear you tell people. You know, in your own words what we be spelling is all about, and i’m grateful that you’re part of the show week after week after week. So, you know, give us give us the short version. What? What? What tell me about we’d be spelling absolutely. So we’d be selling the lifetime of game show. We have a live band with comedian judges. What we do is we take this wacky event repair with non-profit and we use it a za fundraiser. So we start peer-to-peer campaigns with all of the spellers. They raised a bunch of money like marathon runners in the lead up to the event. And we come together. We have ah, party of an event that it’s spelling bee only in name, but feels a lot more like comedy. Game show. Yes, cool! I love that it’s all it’s, all entertainment i’m you know i’m always saying, is that it’s not your seventh grade fundez not your seventh grade spelling bee, not you. It is not your grandmother’s, not your grandmother spelling that. What do you got coming up? Anything exciting? Going share? Yeah, so we’ve been really busy this year. We’ve been doing about two to three events a month from the top of the year axel next big event is august twenty third in brooklyn were going to be part of the brooklyn comedy. Festival so that’s a really fun event we’re partnering with. They tell you to raise the money at a big event with a whole bunch of comedians participating in fellers that august twenty third at union pool in williamsburg, brooklyn. Excellent. Excellent. Yes, and it’s a night for your charity, it’s ah, it’s fund-raising for your charity individually. S o you know, check out the video. We be e spelling dot com and then just talked to alexx. I mean, you could see what a what a what a cool guy is, right? I mean, it’s, no trouble. No trouble. All right. Appreciate it, alex. My pleasure. Thank you for calling in. Thanks so much for being part of the show. For your sponsorship. Of course. In two to three hundred fifty and three hundred fifty more shows. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Let’s. Go teeny sample war. Who? Thank you. Thank you. Alex let’s, go to any sample ward. I know she’s on. Hello, amy. Sample ward. How are you? Hello. I’m doing well. Congrats on three. Fifty. Thank you. Aimee semple ward, our social media contributor. Ceo of intend the non-profit technology network. She’s at amy rs. Ward the ours for rene. Um and thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, i can’t believe that. I mean, i remember five years ago getting to be on the show. Can you believe that it’s been five years? I know you were on your guest on the one hundredth. You’re a guest on the one hundred, and then i just fell in love with the whole idea of prospect of sorry mixing him up social media and being on the show every single month. And, uh, yeah, two hundred fifty shows ago. It’s. Amazing. I know. Five years. Absolutely. So. So, you know, there are there were tools that didn’t exist five years ago that now we get to talk about on the show. Indeed, there were indeed there were so glad so. And let me say to you, i am grateful for the time that you put in every month to educate non-profit radio listeners in small and midsize non-profits thank you so much. Amy really means a lot to me. Thank oh, my god. It’s. My pleasure to get to share. Cool. Thanks. You give us. We just got a minute or so. Give us something you’d like to share. Well, one thing that i was thinking about that i will not put any any political commentary around, but i was reflecting earlier this morning about being on the show, talking about social media five years ago. And would we have ever thought five years ago that we would have politicians using the same tools that organizations are using right, like, five years ago, it was such a difference reality when it came to that, and now it’s normal, that articles would be quoting a tweet or a facebook post or facebook live stream, you know, from from d c i think it’s really interesting what that will mean going forward? Yeah, i think five years ago, politicians were just kind of figuring out whether twitter is something they should put their name on, is it? Is it safe for me to be associated with this platform now? It’s zits fundamental and you’re way behind if you’re not, you know? Yeah, i mean, we have, you know, elected officials using facebook live stream when there, you know, doing presentations on the floor, how does that change their relationship to their constituents? I think i think it would mean a lot. Get shifted pretty quickly. Okay, cool. Wait, what did you have something you want to know? We got it. Okay, we gotta let me go and we’re happy. Three. Thank you, thank you so much. Thanks for being part of the show. Amy. Of course. Thanks, amy, and we got to go to a break. When we come back, we’ve got got more giveaways. We got live. Listen, love podcast, pleasant she’s, an affiliate, affections. You gotta hang around, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trans sounded life that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i am his niece, carmela. And i am his nephew, gino. Ah! My niece’s name is carmela. Come on, that was carmela and gino metal, niece and nephew there. Now they’re not yet there. Now thirteen and eleven, they’re italian. Let’s, give something right there. A little talent, let’s. Give something away. I got some more cure a coffee. Um and this time it’s going to seth perlman. Ah he’s at s j perlman p r l m a n and he tweeted better, brighter, bolder broadcasts for those who give back yeah, you know that’s an attorney that’s, that’s that’s about what you’re gonna get. You know, i know it’s great just writing for a living. No such problem not very good and i’m grateful for him tweeting out and using the hashtag non-profit radio three fifty for today’s show. So we’re sending him a pound of bolder kira coffee for seth perlman. Claire cura coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee dean’s. With every cup of cure, you join our effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. We are a direct trade coffee company with direct impact brought directly to you, creating organics miles beyond the cup. Cura coffee dot com your coffee dot com love them. Thank you so much, cura, for sponsoring those two giveaways and we got a grand prize to give. Away the grand prize is going to cheapen cole she’s at non-profit chapin and she tweeted for today’s show congrats to tony martignetti on celebrating non-profit radio three fifty seven years of enriching inspiring content on an amazing podcast exclamation mark thank you! Thank you so much. We got the grand prize for you and that is a seven part webinar training siri’s sponsored by pursuant are our sponsor. I hope they’re not at their sponsoring. Too many eyes not distribute the sponsorship dollars too broadly. I mean, don’t forget non-profit radio for god’s sake. Claire, what about that? What about that seven port? Serious? Well pursue it is proud to sponsor a seven part webinar siri’s with some of the world’s top fund-raising experts, including gael perry from fired-up fund-raising the donor relations guru lynn wes for simon scribe er from change fund-raising leah eustis s f r ee and founder of blue canoe see change strategies founder mark rovner and a rachel muir c f r ee what’s that stand for cfr certified fund-raising executive and then there is also a c f r ee what’s that advanced certified fund-raising and then there’s and then there’s double advance. D a c f r double advanced, which and then it has an asterisk at the end too. And then you drop a footnote at the bottom of the page and it says that you’re super sort of fundchat yes, so go for the cfr, which i just made up. In fact, it looks like dale perry. Looks like cal perry just joined us on now. Hey, just join us on facebook. Hello, gail pantry. So joined lisa martin game and joined hello, lisa. Jeff lane joined wow, let’s vote for lots of friends from and vot nor the value altum pan high school. Thank you so much, jeff. Lisa um, panda reso mary-jo chamberlain didn’t realize this show had so much math. Now, this is a special because it’s got a three, five zero in the title. So not to worry come back and not a lot. Nothing so much math every time greg rajic am i going to saying no, no, i was left thinking you did mind you don’t mind my lip sync when you were singing it all now and listen if you want to sing harmony like you know what does that mean? I have jack in jail, jack in jail, not proper radio jock in jail, i don’t know. Not sure harmony is normally the lyrics is that what the lyrics is now it’s like when you sing, when people sing together, one sings like the team, the melody and the harmonies, like another part, like the background, or sometimes what’s the lyrics what’s that what’s that i hear the words that’s, the word zoho fancy way to say it works the melodies, the tune this is why i have drug in jail. Um, i like to write the words first and then i do the lyrics after let’s do live listen alone using one minute. So what? The end of the show home? My god, no, no, alright, live! Listen love, i can’t do i can’t doing languages look at this live love! I’ve got to get out besides everybody on facebook, shalem, malaysia, seoul, south korea padano dune yano, italy thanks for being with us. Italy, brazil, austria, germany non-cash yang, china let’s bring it into the u s new york, new york multiple in new york city, potomac. Marilyn brooklyn, new york. Stuart scott stein, who hails from oakland. California. Madison, wisconsin south orange, new jersey. Swan’s bar in north carolina, whoa! Swan’s morrow, mendham north, new jersey, woodbridge, new jersey. New winds or new york. Tampa, florida st louis, missouri hyre hobson, houston, texas live listener love i got into the ophelia affection before you cut me off. Sam, i am and fm stations throughout the country. So glad you’re with us. It’s the affiliate affections. Thank you for being part of the show and the podcast pleasantries. I’ve got to go out to the over twelve thousand podcast listeners. I am grateful you are with us. Sam is cutting me off. I wish i could be more effusive. We got to go. Duitz snusz stein. Claire meyerhoff. Thank you so much for being with you. Thank you. Thank you. Being with me for three. Fifty next week. Personalized philanthropy. Steve myers wants your fund-raising to be seriously, really donor-centric he’s with me for the hour. If you missed any part of today’s show where i beseech you, as i do every week find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling. The fundraisers we b e spelling dotcom are creative producers. Claire meyerhoff sam league rules is the line producer shows social media’s by susan chavez. Our music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook, facebook but andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane. Toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell you put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for July 21, 2017: Look Good To Creditors & What Boards Get Wrong

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Paula Park: Look Good To Creditors

Loan? Credit line? Bond issue? Paula Park reveals how to impress creditors when you’re knocking on their door for money. She’s senior vice president at BankUnited.

 

 

 

Gene Takagi: What Boards Get Wrong

Gene Takagi

You may have heard rumors that your board isn’t perfect. We’ll run through the most glaring offenses you need to look out for. Gene Takagi is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent get excited for next week it’s our three hundred fiftieth show seventh anniversary i’ll say more in a few minutes and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into psych ataxia if i tried to focusing on the idea that you missed today’s show look good to creditors loan credit line bond issue pull a park reveals how to impress creditors lenders when you’re knocking on their door for money, she’s senior vice president at bank united and what boards get wrong? You may have heard rumors that you’re bored isn’t perfect. We’ll run through the most glaring offenses you need to look for. Jean takagi is our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group i’m tony take two, sixty nine and three fifty, but not four hundred nineteen. Responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com my pleasure to welcome first time guests to the show pullup park she’s. Senior vice president responsible for new business development in the non-profit hyre ed and healthcare sectors at bank united’s commercial banking she’s, a banking industry probono over twenty five years of experience focusing most of her career on the banking needs of tax exempt organizations before bank united, she was with wells fargo bank. You can email paula she’s offering her email. People are at bank united that dot com welcome polish pork high thank you. I’m very excited to be on the three hundred and forty nine forty nine that’s. Amazing, thank you very much. It’s almost set seven years called seven wow, seven years what’s one week between friends, right, seven years. Thank you very much. Um, yeah, i don’t know if i’ve had, uh i don’t know if we’ve had a bank around before. I think you might be our first banker. We’ve talked about financial things, but we’ve had, uh, more investment advisors you’ve had, you know, invite investors. We certainly had accountants on you. Might be the first banker zoho that’s. Exciting. Three forty nine. Right? Right. That’s like a low percentage. I feel i’m in the one percent you’re in the europe urine the point o o one. Yes. Okay, so we want to look good for creditors. White let’s. Just make something explicit. Just in case there are maybe or eggs that i haven’t thought about this. Why is it advantageous for them to borrow money? Well, you know, there’s. A lot of reasons for borrowing money. And first, i’d like to say that these air my opinions and up the opinions of my bank. Okay. Okay. Disclaimer. Thank you. So, you know, it helps you expand the reach of your own money. So not every organization can afford to do everything they need to do today. But, you know, do you have a long term risk repayment show source for a short term needs that’s a great reason to borrow. So you want an asset that will last you for the rest of your life. But you don’t have all the money today, okay? Like real estate. Like real estate. But you have the cash flow to support that. Maybe you want to think about borrowing, maybe it’s a great alternative to renting. Ah, and also non-profits use it to help them with their seasonality of their cash flows. Okay, that would be a credit line. Yes, and cried. Um, one of the purposes. Do you see clients coming to you for borrowing? Yeah. I mean, it’s, mostly capital and cash flow. Sometimes we bridge capitol campaigns. So again, back to this that, you know, you have pledges, but they’re going to come in over ten years. But you could buy that asset today if somebody will finance those pledges. Okay, so if there’s the right kind of documentation against those pledges, right? Like, if they’re biting their legally binding, right? I guess that would be part of your due diligence, and they allow lending. You have to let them, you know, they have to say in them that you could borrow against. Okay. All right. We’ll get to the details. All right. Cool. So so you have this future basically receivables? Yes. And you could borrow against them. And under the right terms? Yes. Okay. All right. All right. So it’s, mostly for assets and credit lines. Cash flow is mostly assets and cash flow. Okay, cool. Well, sam, just hand me the list of live listeners were bursting with live listeners who want to hear about looking good to creditors. Okay, we’ll get to the live. Listen, love that comes later. Okay. Okay. So, what should we think about before we approach a creditor lender and start an application or even to start inquiry? What do we need to have in line first? Yeah. I mean, i think you want to get your story together. You want to understand yourself and why you’re approaching them what you’re asking them for, you know, is there collateral? Can you offer collateral? You want to understand your own finances, and you have to be able to explain them to a bank in a way that they can understand wth? Um, okay, so we can’t just voice the whole bunch of documents on you and let you sort through it. Yeah, i know that’s an awful approach that does happen. And that tends to be the last thing you pick up. Don’t do this. Don’t do this. Don’t you throw a whole bunch of random things, really? Organize it. Think about your approach. Think about what you want to tell folks about yourself. Um, if you have a compelling story about yourself, tell it. And you have to be able to tell the story. Behind your numbers, because if you can’t tell it, nobody else can understand, okay, so you’re going to ask is this is this now is this? We’re like an initial phone call just like inquiry call i call up and say, you know, we’re thinking we have a cash flow issues, you know, we’re thinking of fifty thousand dollars credit line would be valuable for us, right? I could that would help us make payroll when you know things like that make our rent payments, et cetera, eyes this in an initial call, or do i need to have these things in line before i even call you and say, i’m thinking about doing this? Are you able to help? Yeah, i mean, i love asking questions, so don’t expect that the person on the other end of the line isn’t gonna have a ton of questions there are even in the usual cold, even in the initial call try to feel it out and see if it’s something you’re interested in or not, um and get an idea of what they’re looking for. Why, you know how they’re going to pay you back? That would be part of the initial conversation, because if it’s something you know you can’t help somebody with you don’t want to spend too much time on your trying to feel it our right. You’re beginning contrary, maybe the popular opinion. You’re not just throwing money at every organization that comes because you because it helps you make money, right know now you know. Okay. There’s due diligence. There’s a lot. I do know. How are you going to repay? All right. So how are we going to repay? I mean, if we need to borrow, how do we repay? Well, so, you know, there’s there’s. A couple of different ah, ways to do that. One is, obviously you have excess cash flow every year. So on a long term repayment, you know that extra hundred thousand dollars you have every year goes to pay the term long town. Okay. Okay. With, you know, with the capital campaign, you play it down, you pay it down, it’s the pledges come in and for lines it’s around your seasonality. So you know your your contract started. You perform the service now, it’s. Three months later. And you’re starting to get paid lines when i was in. College lines meant something different. I am not referring to the white lines now. No white lies a credit line. He’s a credit local. Just making sure. Yes, so would credit lines it’s based on your seasonality. So wants your money starts coming in from your government sources. You should be able to pay those back down, okay? Or maybe your donors, donors or your biggest and, you know, whatever that is. It’s it’s lines are meant to be drawn down and repaid and drawn down and repaid over the course of the year, and most of them have a thirty day cleanup. So you’re not supposed to use them for thirty consecutive days. Oh, meaning thirty days you’re supposed to be paid off within thirty days within it. Within thirty days of every year consecutively you have to pay a line of credit town. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, keep about my organization. Can’t keep a balance. No, the idea is to show us that we’re not your permanent working capital, that we’re just a temporary solution. Otherwise, that usually shows evidence of a larger problem. Yeah, because i say all right, right. If there’s always a balance, then the credit line isn’t the right vehicle for you, right? There’s always a balance because, yeah, you have a systemic issue usually. Ok, which is you’re you’re going to try to get at before issuing the line, right? I try to figure that out. First poker. Sometimes things aren’t as visible. Okay, we’re gonna talk about that. We’ll get more detail. Right? So we got we got to go away for our first break for a couple minutes, and then we come back. Of course, paul and i’m gonna keep talking about looking good to creditors. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy. Dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Uh, paula okay, um, so now we’ve progressed past. We’ve gotten past our initial inquiry call, okay? And we’re still viable. Yes, we haven’t. Slobbered we understand our financials. Oh, how would you want to see you? So when you say understand your financials on what you’re looking for, what kind of explanation? I mean, you know, numbers tell a story and what we want to hear the story behind the story. So we want to understand, you know, what you’re doing out there, you know, how you’re helping people, but also how your funding helping people, what your cash flow cycles like, you know, why you’re goingto borrow you know, you’re you’re building a new homeless shelter? Why do you need it for how many people are going to stay in there? How do you how are you going to pay it back? You know, um, you know, how do you budget? How do you work towards your budget? I the one of the my pet peeves is when somebody tells me they don’t track their budget, that scares me. Oh, that’s, terrible ally, i admit that. To a potential lender. Yeah, i’ve had that several time. We don’t track our budget. We don’t track to our budget and money. And yeah, we don’t do internal financial statements. We don’t track to our budget, right? That’s about that’s a bad sign? Yeah. That’s a that’s, a big red flag right there. It’s like, how do you know what you’re doing if you don’t keep track, right? Yeah. How do you know? How do we know we’re going to get paid back-up wi calendar if if you’re not if you’re operating from a budget. So at the end of the year, you figure out if you made it or not. Yeah, december thirty first. Yeah. Scary. Scary. It’s bad. We shouldn’t be operating that way, but that’s systemic. I mean, that there’s a there’s. A problem with board oversight there? Yes. What is not executing its fiduciary duty? Okay, i don’t know if jean takagi is listening, but he and i are gonna talk about some of the things boards get wrong. That’s one of them? Yeah. Okay, now. All right. So next step durney. What is the next? How would you define the next? So so what? I usually do is i gather financial data. So i asked for three years of audited financial state man’s your current year today how you’re tracking to your budget, you know, some sort of a numeric picture of how you’re going to pay me back. You know, what’s the funds flow if it’s aline what? Your cash flow cycle looks like that’s. Another red flag when somebody says, i don’t know what my cash flow cycle looks like. Um, you know, what’s your plan to pay me back to cash flow cycle well, that’s, your receivable cycle. So most organizations, especially government funded, have a very typical we know. Yes. Okay. All right. So we know, on the end of the quarter, we were very rich, and then we draw it down from the end of the quarter. Because our government pays us, the state sends me. It sends us to check every quarter, and that sustains us for the three months and right. And then we have other revenue sources, like events. And then we have individual donors account for right. Thirty percent of our revenue like that. I mean, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s it and you. Show me your cycle s i collectibe bunch of financial dad and then what i like to do is come visit, meet in person, see what you look like, see where you work here, what you sound like in person and, you know, asking a lot of questions and again have you tell me your story? How can we impress you now now you’re we’ve given the documents now coming on site, right? Right? How can we impress you so that you will give us the loan? Whatever it is that we’re that we’re looking for? Yeah, i mean, first of all, i always bring somebody with me and they’re usually the credit person, one of the credit people, so if you don’t impress them, does that mean they’re the ones who make the decision date? They either make the decision or influence the decision, okay? And you know, if they’re not impressed, that’s it but the end of the line and how to impress them. So you know again, you tell us your financial story. You tell us how you’re going to pay us back. You tell us about what you dio and how you do it. If you have a great program that you can show us that that’s going to really impress us. That always helps a lot. Ok, so show off our facility. Oh, yeah. Even if it’s not directly related to our loan. Yes, absolutely. Okay, you know, bring important people. Bring the cfo. Bring the executive director. Boardmember bring aboard matter-ness boardmember i love when they bring boardmember bring a boardmember show how committed everybody is, you know, talk about why they’re there and how much they love it. And, you know, it’s and the personal impression means a lot. You know, if you leave a meeting and you don’t trust the people you spoke with, they don’t sound articulate. They were confusing. You know, the chances of getting the loan get lower and lower. What about its summertime? Okay, if i show up at this meeting shorts and flip flops. Yeah, shorts and flip flops are a very bad idea. I’ve had it happen. Birkenstocks, you name it. Cut off jean shorts. You know the bank for god’s? Yeah. Think about your audience. You know, even if you have casual fridays, you should probably hold off on showing me your casual fridays until i know you better invite you for monday through thursday. Yeah. Invite me monday through thursday if you don’t want unless we’re doing a barbecue sacrifice your casual friday. Yeah, yeah, but don’t turn up in your casual friday close. I want to bring my credit people it doesn’t mean they’re in suits and dresses. Yeah, we just sweat it out and suits and you’re in your flip flops. They feel insulted. Okay, what else? Anything else? Tip of ways we can impress you. Tips inside of these the pro tips. I mean, you know, the pro tips. I guess one of the things we talked about was pricing hot off the show. But pricing bad banks, you know, come up with a score card on you. They basically take all your data and important into a financial model. And we come up with a risk rating for you and it’s. A number, man. Every bank has a different range, but the idea is the same. And and the number we come up with for you goes into usually some sort of a pricing model. And based on the number your price changes like there’s no, your interest rate. You interest rate, right. So the mohr um risk-alternatives and some of that’s quantitative. So you can’t really change that, it’s. Just a number driven there’s a portion that’s, qualitative and that’s. Where impression and how you sounded in how your story sounded. That all goes into the quantitative piece. Quality. Yes, qualitative piela that that moves your number around. What would you say that proportion is quantitative qualitative in deciding this risk rating? I mean, quantitative hyre okay, but sixty, forty years? Seventy, thirty, thirty percent. I can influence about a third that’s. A lot of my rate by putting on a good show having good present that making a good presentation, right? Right. I mean, there’s, nothing you khun dio, if your numbers are never going to work, there’s nothing you can do to change that. Okay, but if your numbers do work there’s a lot you could do to move, move it around and and put yourself in a different place. Okay, so, you know, i think that’s an important thing to consider is is what impression you’re leaving people with, you know, think about before you have before you call before you meet. What impression am i? Trying to give you what are some of the numbers that go into the these these? Yeah, that go into the risk lady. Yeah, s so what we do is we take your you typically it’s three years. We take your last three years of audits, and we lined them up against each other so we can look at trends. And we re like ratio analysis. We like, first of all, we do a percentage for everything. So revenues is, you know, made up of seventy percent this and ten percent bad expenses. We break every line item into a number and a percent. And then we blind him up so we can say things like, why did your program express spence? Increase relative to your revenue? Why was it twelve percent last year and this year, it’s? Thirty ah, wei take numbers and we pour them into a whole bunch of ratio analysis. Leverage is an important one. It’s basically debt to net assets. All right, we’re getting into jargon jail territory now? Yeah, you just defined leverage. That’s. Good it’s. A ratio of debt to net asset that to net assets. We look at liquidity numbers, which can be all different. It could be a gross numbers. Something like cash and i’m restricted investment. You can be a ratio like sabat current assets minus current liabilities. That could be current assets divided by current liabilities. So there’s a whole bunch of different numbers to look at. And then they think the most important one is debt service coverage ratio here in jargon. Jill. Yeah. Yeah, i know, but i can tell you thie d s c r the common. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s, your operating access plus interest appreciation operating access that we have to find that. Alright. Wait. All right. So let’s, just leave it with dug a hole here. Alright, jargon, but you get me out. Get me out of this hole. I mean, this dark hole, all right, basically shows us how you can pay us back that we have the capacity to pay you back. Yeah, it has to be better than one. If you want more detail in that email. Female polar at people back tonight at dot com. Okay, i got out of that slow. Okay. So, what’s all right, so you’re going toe. You’re doing deep evaluation. This is your your due diligence, right? God, quantitative and qualitative. What are some red flags? That that, yeah, what is a red flag? Yeah. I mean, you know, you’re looking for big, big red flags are ah, negative net assets. So negative equity negative equity means you you own less than you owe you. Owe more than you. Everything, including our copier are if we owned property, whatever all our assets yet or less than our liability. Yeah. That’s, that’s a big no, no, but, you know, this debt service number we’re talking about is below weinger okay, skip over that. Okay? You’re okay, you’re below one the one that’s bad that’s bad. You’re operating continually at a loss like year after year after year after year here on it’s getting worse, okay, you know, so the trends are getting worse. You know that? The number that you’re looking at two pay your backs getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Right? So your risk the risk of this money that you’re going to be lending is rising and rising, right? What? It may just be so high that when that we can’t even help you. Right? Right. All right, red flags. Any other red flags? Birkenstocks, you’ve got a deal. Killer it’s not a deal killer. I’ve done, i’ve done deals for cookie people and strange outfits, but but there, but they paid more. They might have paid for that race probably were hyre yes, stocks, birkenstocks will cost you, you know? I mean, they’re they’re lovely, but not not, not when you’re meeting the credit people, right? And if you go out to meet with people and for burke, they don’t understand what they’re talking about and they can’t tell you why they’re expenses. Air hyre this year, and they don’t manage to a budget and you walk in and the ceiling’s falling down, you’re like, i don’t know if i want to do that. What if we’re lending for renovations because our ceiling is falling down? Well, that would be we’re borrowing. That would be a different story. But if this is like your not that, you know, your i’m in for working capital and you know, the book just fell on my head. I’m a little worried, okay? Yeah, but you have deeper issues beyond. Yeah, there’s more keeping your program’s going in. Your staff paid yes within which these programs and staff are residing is not stable, right? Your buildings falling apart. Yeah, this is fun. And you? Oh, well, let’s, get back to some of the fiduciary duties that the board should be overseeing. What if there’s excessive compensation, right? I mean, you know, there’s not a hard and fast rule for executive compensation. But i do think that if you see stuff that’s really out of the norm, it does raise a big red flag. And one time, for example, i was looking at the nine. Ninety of social service that their financial statement there ought. It looked a little odd, so i went to the nine. Ninety to see if i could dig a little deeper because there’s. A lot of information in there. And i found out thea president, ceo and cfo. Were husband, wife and son. Oh, no. The social service was it’s operating at a loss, but the three of them together made over two million dollars a year. And the headquarter hyre? Yeah, hop on. The headquarters was being rented from the president. Man, i didn’t do that loan, right? Yeah. That’s. Egregious. Yeah. That’s. Great. Where’s, the board i don’t know. And it’s it’s, you know, it’s, a founder run entity. So, yeah, that has to sell that story. Yeah, and i won’t tell you who but it’s when you know very marriage. One wife and son. Yeah, and the three of them are making two million dollars over that’s a lot for a social service. Especially one that’s operating at a deficit. Right? Him? Yeah. So, you know, i look for things like that. Google, sir. Oh, you mentioned. Oh, okay. You mention financial statements, flandez these come with a lot of footnotes? Yes. When i was in law school, i had a professor who he was so keen on the footnote being so important that the answer to an exam turned on whether you read the footnote or not. Yes, absolutely right or wrong in big way. Whether you if you didn’t read the footnotes. Footnotes i read, i actually i read the footnotes first before i even look at the financial numbers because their stories in there because that’s, the football i love the footnotes. Yeah, there’s. A lot of stuff in there. It’s. Very interesting. Um, all the good stuff’s in the footnotes if we’ve got stuff buried in the footnotes that we would rather you didn’t see? Should we just let you read it on your own? Or should we come out clean and say, you’re going to see cem, some improprieties or some, you’re going to see some red flags? Let me talk about these shoes. In other words, should we reveal it, or shall we leave it to you two? Maybe you won’t find it. Yeah, it’s always better off to come up front with things make cerini find it, maybe we find it and and you know what it is and and and if it’s on google, if i can google it, you have to tell me, because if it’s out there, i google search everybody everything yeah, bad press um and if it’s out there on google, everybody knows so china hide it it’s better to just tell you story a pride. It always sounds worse when you dig it up on your own. Absolutely well, that’s. Like being ten years old, it’s. Much better to go to mom and say you did something bad. Then have her discover that you fed the broccoli to your dog. Right? Right, it’s. A deal killer. When you find something on google and it’s egregious for me, it was liver, but i have cut it into little bits at a smother it with ketchup. I always say, if you covered cutting little bits and spread it around the plate, it looks like a lot less right, right. At least hide it under the mashed potatoes. Yeah, hide it or just diffuse it when it’s dense on the plate. That’s when? It’s scary, right? Just just last night, this came up, somebody cooked me liver, even smothered with onions. I just i’m not a liver fan myself, but you got to come clean. He gotta come tell up front. You know, we don’t like liver here in this organization, right? That’s, right? And we want you to know and here’s why? And here’s but here’s what we do instead we have other sources of iron right supplement. Wei have other sources of good protein. That’s right? We’ve finished. They were in vegan. They were even begin here. Yeah, there are good. So alright. Come clean. That’s. What you’re saying? Come clean. Dafs piela all right. Um anything else? All right, so now we’re getting to this, the evaluation, the number’s sounds like we’re just reduced to a bunch of spreadsheets cells, right. While we tell you story too, we tell you story and writing. Oh, so you tell us your story. We tell you, we tell our credit people your story. Okay. Okay. So are you? Basically is your role basically too be an advocate for the would you put it that way and advocate for the non-profit is that too strong of a navigator? As long as that they’re worth advocating for. Okay. Okay. Until they’re not your advocate until they’re not worth advocating for. Yes, absolutely. So you’re the liaison. I’m really a front face of the credit organization. Credit institution, bank united on dh. You’re working between the organization of the credit right in the middle person? Absolutely. I kind of represent both to each other. Anything else we can do to get the best rate possible? We just have, like, a minute and a half left. What could you d’oh? Besides, have great numbers tell you. Good story. Where the right clothes? Show me your show, mia programs. Okay, alright. Stuff recovered. Yeah, i can’t think of anything else in that case tell me why you love. You’ve been in banking and lending twenty for over twenty five years. Why do you love this work? Yeah, i mean, i’m here for the not-for-profits so i’ve always been a not for profit. I started lending to not-for-profits in nineteen, ninety and i’ve been hooked ever since. I love to be involved in the projects i love to be involved in the missions i love to meet the people i’ve set on board. I’ve done volunteer work. I’ve worked. It not-for-profits too and i just i just want to help the the not-for-profits helped the universe. Our cold is to go to that to go to the ribbon cutting oh, i love going to the river cutting that’s like your shining moment of glory when all the all that work you did paid off for everybody. Yeah, so that’s fun. We loved the ribbon cutting and we try to bring some of our bosses to the ribbon cuttings too, and let them see how great we are, where their money did something good for a change. Outstanding cool part. Thank you. Thank you. Ballpark. Senior vice president at bank united park at thank united dot com. Thank you again. Thank you so much. Jean takagi and what boards get wrong is coming up first pursuant they have ah, well, they have something, but you have seen a lot of midyear fund-raising reports now we’ve we’ve crossed june thirtieth and benchmarks being discussed everywhere, you know, whether you’re living up to what the community is doing or not, but one of the most important trends and how do you make the most of the best sense out of them for your organization? What if you’re not hitting the benchmarks that other people have created on dh? How do you keep rising above if you’re if you’re ahead? That’s what the next webinar comes in for from pursuant it’s, the state of fund-raising midyear checkpoint with ceo trent riker he’s going to be on the show next week for the three fifty and senior vice president jennifer abila they’re gonna help you push through your third and fourth quarters if you can’t make it live on july twenty fifth, watch archive either live or archive go to pursuing dot com click resource is then webinars. We’ll be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers make millennial money that’s my own that’s my own alliteration that’s not there so don’t don’t blame alex queer. We’d be spelling for that, but listeners have been talking to alex. I know he’s the ceo there he’s also going to town next week and you could be next. You could be a b you could be you could be next. Look at this. What is brilliant mind since that what? You’re witnessing it at work right now. Um, b next, check out the video at we b e spelling dot com and then pick up the phone for pizza. Talk to alex and look, look what his number is. Nine to nine to two four bees. Okay, see, i’m not the only one now the time for tony’s. Take two. Sixty nine and three. Fifty. I’ve got a new video. Feels good in sixty nine. Get the filth out of your mind. Get it out! This is a family show. Although i don’t know anyone under twenty one. Why anyone under twenty would listen. But in fact, if you are under twenty one and you can prove it to me, i’ll make you listen for the week. Get me at tony martignetti sixty nine is a new position for me, it’s. Hard it’s a hard position. Watch the video and it will all become very clear. Next week is the three hundred fiftieth non-profit radio we’ve got all the regulars that iran, including jeanne kaguya, was coming on very shortly hyre meyerhoff she’s gonna be with me the ceo’s from pursuing and we’d be spelling live music with scott stein he’s going to play our theme song, of course, cheap red wine and another and we’ve got giveaways from pursuant and your coffee. How do you enter the wind post your most creative? Congrats on the three fiftieth use the hashtag non-profit radio three fifty post will pick the best ones those will be the winners here’s that hash tag non-profit radio three fifty you’ll find my sixty nine and three fifty videos at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two jean takagi. He, uh you know, he’s been listening to tony take two he’s been on for a couple minutes. You know who he is? He’s, the managing attorney of neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the wildly popular non-profit law block dot com and he is the american bar association’s. Twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer you’ll find him at gee tak gt a k jean takagi. So great to have you back. Welcome back. Thanks, tony. Great to be back. My pleasure. We’re talking about some, um, some mistakes that boards make. What, uh, what brings this to your attention? Well, it’s been in the news a lot on dh governance on every level in every sphere of ah, our country has been coming to a lot of attention and whether things were done properly up on the top or not, um, has become a big issue, and i think there’s a common saying the tone is set at the top and the tone of proper governance on non-profit boards really sets the whole tone for the organization and when you don’t have boardmember that air prepared to set that right tone, there are there are problems that follows, and those are the things that get into the news, okay? And we were just touching on just a couple of those with with paula park a few minutes ago, some talking about some of the fiduciary issues fiduciary duties that board members might be ignoring if they’re if they’re not. Properly prepared for, you know ah, credit application sabat okay, but aside from that let’s, see, what would you like, tio? What would you like to start with you? Pick you pick somewhere. We got to get a bunch to go through. But you pick something to start. I feel like i always dictate to you. You choose. Okay. Let’s do allowing. No, i’m sorry. Go ahead. What would you like to do? Well, i could actually let’s start with sort of conflict of interest transactions and that’s where boardmember sze decide that they want to sell services to the non-profits on whose board they sit and, you know, some some sort of say, all of that should not be allowed. And with private foundations there’s ah, much stricter rule that prohibits most of those transactions. But with public charities, it’s usually not sort of absolutely prohibited in some cases, a conflict of interest times action is actually to the organization’s benefit. Like kinda boardmember says, you know, i’ll give you rent at half of the market rate on you. And you can use my my offices to run the organization. That might be a very good deal for a public charity, but where board get in trouble is where one member of the board says, well, you know, i’ll sell you these advertising services for the organization, and my usual rate is five hundred dollars an hour, but i’ll charge you four hundred dollars an hour, and maybe that is what you know that person’s rate is when they’re selling him tto fortune five hundred companies. But for this little one hundred thousand dollars a year non-profit a four hundred dollar an hour rate for advertising is probably excessive. And if the rest of the board just blindly goes along that’s as well he’s giving us a twenty percent discount let’s go with it that gets boards in trouble. Yeah, okay. Would that fall under that eyes that a conflict, conflict of interests? Yes. I mean, there may be several laws where it could be a problem, but on sort of the federal level on the federal tax level, along with being a five a one c three organization and the public charity, you’re not allowed to engage in on access, benefit transaction where somebody like a boardmember gets an excessive payment. And if that happens, what? The irs could do would say, hey, you know, that was excessive, really, nobody should be paying a charity this side should not be paying more than let’s say, two hundred dollars an hour for those services, so you were overcharging two hundred dollars per hour and what we’re going to make you do, as the irs says, we’re going to say you have to return that excessive portion back to the charity, and then on top of that, we’re going to charge you a tax for violating that rule, and that will be twenty five percent of the excessive amount that you charged. And if you don’t fix that within the tax year, we’re going to charge you a two hundred percent penalty under the mountain, all right away, if any boardmember approved that transaction and they knew or he really should have known it to be excessive, we’re going to hit them with a penalty as well. Oh, my goodness. Okay. And i think you and i have talked about this not recently, but xs benefit transactions. I think we’ve covered this. This yeah, and then very i love that you point out the possibility of individual fiduciary penalties and my saying individual money, penalties for the board members, personal penalties. Yeah, really, really rare. But, you know, if if boards look like they colluded, teo benefit one of their fellow board members and weren’t really looking after the best interests of the organization, they can be imposed. Okay, okay, let’s go to aa, not preventing misappropriation, our misuse of the of the ah, the money’s that come in or the other other assets of the organization. Yeah, i mean, that’s a great segue way because one misuses overpaying a boardmember really is overpaying anybody. So maybe you’ve got a friend. And, you know, that friend is offering this great deal to the organization according to your friend, but maybe it isn’t such a great deal. Or maybe it’s for services that the organization really doesn’t even need. So he’s saying, you know, i’ve got this great storage facility. You guys should rent it, and you know, i’ll give you this this great deal on it, and so the organization goes ahead on, rents it but actually never uses it because they never needed that storage facility. Well, that would be kind of a waste of assets and potentially, a diversion of those charitable assets to benefit somebody’s friend. And again that back and get people in a lot of trouble about cyber security risks what’s the board’s responsibility there? Yeah, cybersecurity czar really hot button issue right now and then we’re seeing it everywhere from, uh, people getting their social security numbers stolen or credit card number stolen and identity theft associated with that. So when non-profits are collecting what they call personally identifiable information information that can be associating with a specific individual, they’ve got certain rules that apply, and these are specific to the states. So there’s certain rules that apply that say, you’ve got to really maintain and protect this information, and if it gets out, if your sites that contain this information are breached and those things that released a lot of states say you’ve gotta notify the individual who’s data has been breached and taken so that they can take steps to protect themselves. So really big deal now you you will have already breached the law if you didn’t create secure systems preventing certain breeches and hackers from getting at that data. And if you fail to notify possibly donor’s information, for example, or some buyers of your services or goods? If you don’t notify them of that reaches well, you could be violating another law. So a lot going on there in cyber security. Actually, another really interesting one was recently there was some ransom where that that was came out and hit not only for-profit organizations but some non-profits is well and ransom. Where is basically where somebody hijacks your site and some of some of your site, maybe for processing donations or for selling goods and services. And so you really rely on having them up every day while the hacker takes over your site says unless you pay me let’s, say, you know, ten thousand dollars by tomorrow, i’m going to keep your site hacked and it may take you, you know, even with your experts a week, two weeks to recover it, and maybe you’re gonna lose a lot more money if you do that now, what do you do? Yeah, we just had that nationwide within about the past, not not not just nationwide internationally with in the past, what, six weeks or so? See, i think the wannacry ransomware i don’t know if it’s called a virus or something else. But yeah, it was widely prevalent in a lot of organizations, and organizations have to figure out how to deal with that and it’s best to figure those things out before it actually happens, rather than after the fact we just had a guest with in the past. I’d say that in the past two months, mark last night was shine mark shine. I think, talking about cyber security on how to ensure against it, the different policies that are available. Teo, to protect your organization in the event of a breach s so you could listen to you could look back at that it’s just with i’m sure it was mark shine just in the past couple months, okay, let’s. See, um, let’s. I do want to get teo another, another popular blawg, not not as popular as non-profit law block dot com, but we’ll we’ll give ellis card or a shout in a couple minutes. How about yeah, investments what’s the what? I don’t think you and i have talked about this one, the board’s responsibility around the investment policy statements of the organization? Sure. So, you know, even some smaller charities, you know, they got reserves and order some of them anyway. If they’re lucky, enoughto have not have to live sort of day by day, have some reserves on dh. They may want invest those reserves rather than just keep it in in a checking account, for example. And if you do have assets for investment was a charity. There are state laws that are associated with prudently investing those foreign investor axe. Yeah, on dh those are really important to pay attention to so some charities and some have come to us for service. You know, when when the market is it is it’s hot on the market has been pretty good lately, you know, they’re also served deals out there, and some are like going no, you know, we would like to invest all of our our money in this hedge, but, uh, and they may not even know what a hedge fund is. And i don’t know that anybody actually knows what a hedge fund is, because that covers so many different broad groups of investments, but they tend to be wildly speculative, meaning you could make a ton of money on them in a short period of time, and you can lose a lot of money in a very short period of time and that type of speculative investment making unless it’s part of like a prudent portfolio where maybe, like ten percent of your assets are devoted to those that are, you know, much more speculative, but ninety percent are in much more conservative investments can be a real breach if you put all your money’s in one basket, which it’s never good ideas, we’ve learned from our our parents or our kindergarten teachers. Um, you know, you’ve got to make sure that the portfolio of different investments you have is prudent, and so you’ve diversified your risks and not put it all in some wildly speculative investment, and that could be not only a breach of your fiduciary duty but reach a prudent investor rules and there’s a rule we don’t wantto get into jargon jail, you’re always about the impression that the acronym uniforms prudent management. Of institutional funds act, and it says that you have to look at different concerns when you’re investing on dh. It really talks about conservative investing in a portfolio with an eye on what your mission is as well. Gene, just give that acronym and what it stands for again, please, i talked over you sure upmifa upm i f a, the uniform, prudent management of institutional funds act. If you google upmifa and your state, you’ll find what the law is, and i think that’s in forty nine states, i think maybe pennsylvania’s the outline, hold on. All right, all right, thank you. I’ll try teo, keep my tongue civil from here on, but all right, let’s, go out for our break. When we come back, i’ve got live. Listen, love a ton, and we’ll give a shout out to another law block that you might be interested in state with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Krauz hyre hopes could be with us next week for the three hundred fiftieth show as well. Jean takagi, listen, let’s, do the live listener love because we’re bursting here. Tampa, florida bronx, new york and if we got all five boroughs, we got multiple manhattan. We got bronx. We got staten island. Um, we have brooklyn where’s, queens, queens. Let us down. All right. We got four out of five and multiple said, multiple manhattan, woodbridge, new jersey. That’s not far. Laura, laura, laura, belinda, california live listen and love to all of you, but also to torrington, connecticut. I’ve been to torrington, that’s, a nice little town. I did some consulting there. Uh, social service agency. Torrington. And you have that that renovated theater right in downtown. I love that’s, very pretty. Minneapolis minnesota lives their love to you also new bern, north carolina and midlothian, virginia. Midlothian, midlothian live listen love. However you pronounce it let’s, go abroad. Not too many people abroad, nobody, nobody in asia, nobody at all in asia. This, i think, is the first show where there’s, nobody from asia. Wow. Okay, uh, they’ll be back. Uk? We can’t we can’t we see uk, united kingdom so we don’t know whether it’s whales or ireland or scotland or england we don’t know well, you’re in the uk so we always give always give you know you got to do the you got to recognize that there’s more than one country in the united kingdom, please and germany, good talk, live listen love all our livelong sinners on dh so of course, on the heels of that has got to be the podcast pleasantries because we’ve got over twelve thousand podcast listeners in the time shift. Thank you. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners, never forgetting them. And then, of course, the affiliate affections to our am and fm stations throughout the country. And by the way, i have four new stations to introduce next week on the three, fiftieth four brand new stations joining us throughout the country from new york, colorado to washington. I think porter stations but for the current stations listening today affections to our am and fm listeners. Thanks so much for being with us, everyone. Thank you, jean. Thank you for that indulgence. You know the thanks that you know the gratitude has got to go out, right? You know that? Absolutely. Thank you. Um okay. So let’s give a little shout out to ah, another. Another non-profit attorney ellis carter. She she she curates the charity lawyer blawg, cherry lawyer block. And you know, ellis carter. I did turn and she’s a wonderful person and a great attorney. Alice and i have had a chance to speak together and work together on the few occasions you’ve worked together too. Cool. All right. So on her block post going back, i think it’s two thousand nine there was one of her earlier poster, if not her very first post. She links to you while she mentions a bunch of your problem ideas. And i want to give a shout out to your block. Of course. Non-profit non-profit law block dot com where listeners can check out all your list of all ten because you did a post for this show, which actually you do that every week, which i always appreciate every time you’re on, you do opposed. So if you want to see the full list of jeans, go to non-profit loblaw dot com. But ellis carter has charity lawyer blawg and she’s got a couple on there. That i want to talk about, like micro managing staff are you are you comfortable talking about ellis carter’s board governance mistakes? Yeah, absolutely actually give credit to her. She came up with a list of ten, and then i just added a few more to to her list, and so she recaptured all fifteen together on her block, but she was the one who came up with micro managing staff and it’s a really important one because i think he probably seen it as well. Tony, where board members start to get involved and then go around the executive director and start to give directions to the staff. Yes, i have and creates all kinds of political trouble and reporting line trouble and yeah, yeah, but, you know, part of that can be the responsibility of the ceo to and blurring lines and, you know, having boardmember do things that maybe you’re not appropriate, like, you know, day to day tasks and things. Yeah, and so, you know, oftentimes when you, this is a kind of a growing pain for some non-profits as well, because when you’re on all volunteer non-profit organization, it is where the board members involved. With everything as well and and managing volunteers in that case. But once you start to grow up a little and have staff and haven’t executive director, the board members have to know to pull back and, you know, for one thing, boardmember should know that individually they have no inherent authority to do anything. They don’t have the authority to manage staff it’s only collectively as a board where they have authority officers like your executive director or your ceo perhaps might have the authority to give limited direction to the staff to ceo would obviously have have the ultimate authority there with respect to the staff, but just knowing where your boundaries are, it’s really important and from a liability standpoint, board members, if they start to mismanage, that could get hit with unemployment claim, which really makes up, i believe more than ninety percent of all directors and officers insurance claims our employment related and if they’re directed against boardmember themselves, and if you don’t have dino insurance boy, that that could be a huge problem for individual boardmember so they really have to be careful of that. Another one on ellis’s list is airing disagreements outside the board room and that reminds me of the very timely, like complaining about your attorney general to the new york times as an example, it just happened today airing disagreements outside the boardroom what’s the trouble there? Yeah, and obviously as a non-profit when you’re taking positions, you wantto have one position that you’re setting out to the public you don’t wantto have ah, divided ah statement that you’re giving to a public where some persons involved with the organization are on one side of an issue when other persons are other side of an issue and it looks to the public that the organization is poorly governed, poorly managed, and can’t even make up its mind on what its messages and therefore could jeopardize support. So aaron aaron, you know your disagreements outside of the boardroom, a really big problem for the organization in terms of its, you know, public relations, but also a huge, huge problem for the boards themselves because, you know, tony, if you and i were on the board together and we had a disagreement over a key issue on dh, we got a chance to discuss it, of course, when we go out you know, even if i may have disagreed with you and, you know, your side won, i’m going to be supportive of that. I might not say very much about it, but i’m definitely not going to say, well, i, you know, in in public that i disagreed with it because what happens if i start doing that is i’m a chill further board discussions, you know, if you don’t kick me out of the board for doing that, the board might find itself very, very leery of, you know, raising controversial points because you got this one person who’s going to be a blabber mouth and start teo, reframe everything and criticize you personally outside of the organization, a really big problem. The place for the robust discussion and disagreements is within the confines of the board meeting and maybe discussions that take place in committee or or even know our board members having back channel communications right privately on the phone or email, but publicly wait, where were we? Face-to-face we present one face yeah, and this along with your duty of loyalty to the organization as well, you’re supposed to act as a board member in the best interest of the organization. Not in your personal best interests. All right? Yeah. You don’t want to hurt the organization by by airing your grievances outside. Thank you very much. Looking forward to talking to you next week on the three. Fifty of jean? Yeah, i’m really looking forward to three. Fifty congratulations. Thank you so much, jane takagi you’ll find him at non-profit law block dot com and at g tak gt a k next week three fifty three five oh, how many times i have to say it, make sure you enter to win our giveaways post your most creative congrats with the hashtag non-profit medio three fifty can’t wait for that great fun! If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com we’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com our creative producers climb hyre half sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez and this fantastic cool music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and degree. Sametz buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts, tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for July 14, 2017: Social Change Anytime Everywhere, Part Deux

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My Guest:

Amy Sample Ward: Social Change Anytime Everywhere, Part Deux

Amy Sample Ward

We pick up where we left off last week with Amy Sample Ward, discussing her book, “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.” We’re covering your fundraising plan: scheduling; testing; staffing; budgeting; and tips for your website campaign. Amy is our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN). Her dad Tim joins in to share what it’s like to raise a social media scientist.

 

 


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Oppcoll no. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. The three fiftieth show is coming up july twenty eighth, two more weeks, the three fiftieth and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with dexter okla nation if i saw that you missed today’s show social change anytime, everywhere parte do we pick up where we left off last week with amy? Sample wards book social change anytime everywhere covering your fund-raising plan scheduling, testing, staffing, budgeting and tips for your website. Campaign amy’s dad tim joins in to explain what it was like to raise a social media scientist, and this originally aired on april nineteenth twenty thirteen on tony take two thank you, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here’s amy sample ward with her book social change, anytime everywhere part do i’m always pleased to welcome amy sample ward to the studio she’s membership director at non-profit technology network and ten, as i said her most recent co authored book social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement the forward is by two time guest of this show, craig amar, the founder of craig’s listing craigconnects no, sorry work that in there that he’s been on the show twice her blogged is amy sample, ward dot or ge and she’s at amy r s ward on twitter. Welcome back, kayman sample work. Thank you for having me back. It’s. Always a pleasure. Um, i guess my one of my first my first question is on the cover of this book the word’s, any time and everywhere. I’m showing her the cover now to remind her of the are separated. But they are not hyphenated. Why? Why aren’t they hyphenated the way proper english would be any hyphen time? Because they’re in different lines and every hyphen. Where where is the copy editing on this? On this cover? Yep. I don’t think i’m gonna let you just go by with this job. It’s it’s apparently thie design aesthetic. Okay, which you had no control over, i guess. Okay. Okay. I think this should be hyphen. I mean, i think these things are important in in language. All right. But it helps you enunciate the title very well. Any time, every right. Trying to learn how to spell her. You would think that any time was two different words. And and it’s, not it’s, not everywhere is not two different words. It’s. True. Okay, um let’s. Ah, i like to reflect a little bit. Okay, we talk all the time about online engagement, teo. And with what’s been happening this week, if you are engaged online on your charity, does nothing at all related to anything around violence or maybe victim or family support or politics of guns. Your charity has nothing to do with any of that. How do you respond? What do you do online, too? Let people know that you’re you’re conscious of what happens in the world. That’s outside your own. Sure, i think i mean first i would say i understand the argument of, you know, we don’t work on the politics of gun issues. However, you probably work with people and ultimately in any crisis or disaster, people are involved, you know, and reminding your own staff that it’s not just about bombs or terrorism. This is still about people and treating whatever response, whatever communication you have next in that light that there are people involved in this, i think helps you just take the right tone regardless of where you go next, because you’re then being responsive to what if it was you, you know, you would want someone to treat you or your city or your issue like people were involved. Next it’s a great opportunity to go check any scheduled messages you have any tweets or facebook post that air maybe already scheduled about something else. Also, look at your content calendar. You know where we planning on sending out an email appeal this week? That was, you know, using the story of this great little kid, and now maybe we don’t want to do that story or maybe not that message it all this week, you know, not that you have to completely shut down every organization didn’t stop this week, but trying to be responsive, teo, the fact that, you know, even in your own goals, you’re probably not going to get the analytics or the metrics you wanted, you know, no one’s going to be clicking through that email anyway, if that’s not what’s on their mind so looking at not just scheduled tweets, but what’s on your what’s scheduled to go up on your block what’s scheduled to go out and email looking at all of that immediately so that you can either put things on hold, readjust change, maybe which story was going to be in a newsletter? You know, there’s things like print ads or direct mail that that that’s already out there, you know? But people also don’t look at the newspaper and think, i can’t believe that this ad ran like because in our minds, we know that that’s not like a real time media. We know that that’s program six weeks in it, right? Exactly, but when you see something go up on twitter, you know, when you everyone else is just watching twitter for news updates it it really does feel a little bit more careless because they know that you let it happen. You know, you could have changed that tweet. We talk a lot about engaging with people online not so dissimilar lee from the way we engage with people face to face, you know? And when when i saw you earlier today, we you know i told you that i was feeling raw and sensitive and you know, that was that was really basically after right after hello, yeah, so, you know, i’m doing that in it, and i’m sure i’ll do that with friends. I meet for dinner tonight. It’s not it’s, not unlike online when you can have a conversation about this, or at least share your feelings when it really oppcoll just doesn’t deal with your data your day to day world, right? It’s it’s never going toe i mean, i don’t want to say never as if any statement could ever be, you know, all all encompassing, but for the most part, it’s not going to hurt your organization to say something like our hearts are going out to the victims and here’s a link to resource is or hears, you know, the the google spreadsheet that was created to help, you know, people say i’ve found this person or this person is missing, you know, like that it doesn’t hurt your brand, it doesn’t hurt your cause even though you might work on a totally separate mission to say, hey, we know this is happening and we want to make sure that we’re one more post in your facebook stream. That’s pointing to resource is instead of to something else. Okay, excellent. Well, we’re going to pick up with where you and i left off last month. It was march fifteenth with the fund-raising plan. We have just met and a half or so before we go away for a couple of a couple minutes, why don’t you just tease a little bit? Share? What? What we might be talking about with respect to a fund-raising plan. Sure. I think last time we talked kind about the components of the plan and this time we can get and i think to the nitty gritty, a little bit more like what does a be testing really look like in a campaign? Especially in real time? How do you figure out what’s working and keep kind of iterating as you’re in the middle of the campaign? And then also, what does that look like for your organization? Who’s involved once the campaign is live, is it just that development director or other staff? You know, playing into that campaign on then? Even what does it look like on online? What is what? Is your website need to do to be responsive to the campaign? Okay, maybe testing? Yeah, i don’t i’m not sure that that really qualifies for jargon jail. I’m not really feeling like putting buy-in george in jail today, and it probably doesn’t even really qualified. But well, why don’t you just explain what a be testing is? Sure. So for the most part, you could test everything on your website just by saying, well, it’s, their people are clicking on it, they like it, but it’s a little bit more scientifically valid. If you say have two buttons and people when they came to your website, they’re being presented with one of two buttons, and then you can just leave it up for a few days and say, gosh, anyone that saw the blue button clicked three times more than anyone that saw the red button, for example, so it’s just changing one component at a time with two versions so that you can figure out which works better and then start changing the next thing. And you’re directing people to both of them? Yes, simultaneously. Yep, i guess. Randomly, exactly. Okay. And you? You have an excellent example. In the book about the the clinton bush haiti fund, and we’ll talk a little about that. Ok, we go away for a couple seconds. When we come back, amy and i will continue this conversation about about her book and and your fund-raising plan stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, not too many live listeners today, i’m suspecting that a lot of people are if they’re online, they’re looking at cnn or some other some other news source that they trust. But i will say, live listener love out too. Forest grove, oregon and new bern, north carolina also since you taiwan ni hao and for korea, we have listeners in seoul and young in korea on yo haserot glad that you’re very glad, very glad that you’re with us. Thank you. Um okay, kayman sample word let’s talk about some of these details of of a be testing. What does this look like? Well, you can do it. I mean, even though we used the example before of your website, you can do it on anything. You know, you could do it in an email. Newsletters on little micro sites, it’s. Just a page essentially, whatever. Wherever you’re trying to put content out, you could do a be testing. So it could mean different photos, different buttons that text it could also mean having a photo or no photo, you know? Ah lot of organizations will do. A b testing specifically around fund-raising with on that on that donation page, does it have a photo or does it just have the form? Or, you know, does it show maybe a image of some sort that shows, like how they’re using the funding, for example, or what the project looks like that they’re asking for money for or again, is it just the form, you know? So and that’s it it’s going to change it’s not going to be the same for every single organization? You know, you have to do that testing because if especially if you’re an organization that’s used a lot of images in your campaign in your appeals that’s, you know that it’s driving people to remember what, what this is all about maybe having that photo there again, we’ll just keep that emotional tie to the campaign. But if it’s your raising money for something that you haven’t been using, that kind of graphical support for, well, maybe people would get there and say, why do you have this random photo of a child up here? You know, so so you wanted to be consistent, but you also want a test to see. What’s going to get the most completion on that form. Ok. And so i just said quickly before the break. You are you are you randomly? Your technology is randomly assigning people two different a and b version that’s what they be testing it first to a and b version is that is that what happens? So there are all different levels of sophistication, so you may be using a tool google has? Uh uh, baby testing tool optimize. Lee is another pretty sophisticated tool to use for that, especially around your website. But with email marketing, you could just say we want to send you don’t have the list this message and half the list this message or say you have a thousand people on your email list, send the first one hundred message a the next one hundred message be and then wait two hours, see which one had more opens and then say, great, we’re going to go with that message to the other eight hundred. Okay, so this could be that instantaneous. We’re just a couple of hours. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Now, an email, a popular thing to test is a subject line. Right? You could. Be having different versions of a subject line, right? Everything else would be the same. Exactly. The message inside is the same. But having, you know, a call to action versus you know anyone, regardless of which side you support anyone that’s on a political list. You’ve seen them testing those subject lines. You see messages coming almost every day during campaign season. Sometimes it just has one word. You know, sometimes it has your name in it sometimes it’s a really long call to action and that’s just those campaigns testing out what’s getting the most people to open this on the on the fund-raising landing page side, you have the example of the clinton bush haiti fund. They changed something so subtle, just the words within the button that you click right. The red, they have a red button and i have i’ve read that red is a very powerful color. Red is supposed to be very good button color for donate now for donation buttons or buy buttons. So they changed it from submit that the word in the button was submit to support haiti, and they got a fifteen percent increase in dollars per page view. Just something so subtle is that exactly and part of that, you know, some organizations think, well, we don’t want to write submit because normally, you know what we want them to do is donate or whatever their word choice, maybe, but if you have all throughout your website, if you keep using the word support, support us through your donations, support us by taking this action, and then someone gets to a page where there’s a button that says donate well, it feels really weird because you’ve already been consistently using this other word, so that consistency is important, you know? And again, if if you go look on your website now and you see that on your you’re donate paige it’s the only place you say there were donate but the rest of the time you really are talking about, support us financially. That’s an opportunity to do some testing because maybe donate works for your organization, and you should change those other places where it says sport or the other way around. Okay, excellent example, right of potential testing. Another thing they did there. There’s. This little geo trust verified icon i guess that it’s a trustworthy site right? Forgiving is that what that is, right? And there are all different kinds of those, you know, whether it’s charity navigator, geo trust like all those different things that say, basically, we’re not goingto take your money and do something else with it, i guess again, there’s different levels of what these other certification sites mean to, but some places have found, you know, some organizations found that by putting those kinds of seals of approval, i guess you would say on the donation for more on the button, they saw a big increase, but others have found like they did. You know, when you when you take it away, you actually haven’t they well, they decode, they had to do when they when they took that away, they lost five percent revenue right per page view. Exactly. There’s a trusted icon similar to papal, verified on the commercial side. Exactly. So people have gotten really used to, even if people don’t necessarily know what geo trust is or they don’t know what you know, charity navigator is they don’t know what they are, but the fact that it says it’s verified, you know, someone’s looked into these people give some amount of trust some of the things that you suggest it could be changed on dh tested form fields, how many form fields you have, the donation amounts that air suggested those little radio buttons that you click ten, twenty five, fifty hundred and that’s a really big thing to change, especially, you know, certain campaigns have found easy ways to mix that up because if they had a number involved in the campaign, you know, if if the campaign was around ah, holiday and it was on the thirteenth or it was a military campaign and they wanted to use the six as there number, and so then you just have increments of six, and you, maybe you say sixty is the default, right? Whenever organizations test that out, often they find people that the hyre number really does get donated because they’ve just mixed it up a little, you know, they didn’t defaulted to ten, you know, they put it up there a bit because people will still put it down if they want to have a smaller number, you know, but showing kind of the idea with where that preset radio button selection is. Is basically trying to say this is the average gift. This is the normal donation. So it’s not, you know, we’re expecting you to do this, but, hey, most people are doing this one thats why its preset on sixty. You know, eso it just encourages people. Tio not think oh, this is just a ten dollar or that’s, just the twenty five dollar normal donation, you know, so putting different numbers in there that are, like, thirty three and, you know, throws people a little. We have. We have tim sample on the line, tim samples called, and this is amy’s dad, he called in last month. Tim. Tim sample, how are you doing in oregon? I’m doing good doing good and plays it’s it’s already done, or or a gun? Oregon where there’s no evil or he’ll help you. Oregon. All right, there you go. You go. Oregon. Are it’s not gone? There’s no e at the end. Oh, thank you. Alright, oregon, but i’m a i’m right in the middle of work right now, but i’ve had an opportunity to come down on my desk and lock the doors. Nobody bought it. I’m at your disposal. Thank you, tim. You know, i wanted to ask you. I have here with me. You know, this little kind of sort of shrinking kind of wallflower, you know? Never not very engaged. Not very out there. What? What? What is she always like this when she was growing up? Oh, you’re talking about my daughter? Yeah, i know. I know. It’s. Hard to tell. Yeah. Yeah, alright, now, but without the sarcasm has always been a type a personality. Yeah, and always always engaged. Like, was she in? A lot of i could’ve asked her, but it’s more fun to ask you. Was she out there? Like, in activities in elementary school in high school? I mean, she’s, the online engagement, everything poster poster will be, could everything she could possibly get involved with. She was involved with her mother, and i tried to give her every opportunity to try every sport, every activity you wanted, you know, you know, as parents, we tried to do that for her. Can. My god, you know a good example of amy. I tell this story. He probably doesn’t remember it. But in the second grade, i said anything. You got your homework. Done well, yes. He had two next day’s homework done the whole weeks. Only john had read three chapters ahead. It was the last time we ever ask her if she had her homework done. Never had to worry about amy school or anything. Okay. And always self directed, always always getting right with it. And and i feel like he is right now. I know and engaged also. Always engaged with the public. Yes. Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. How did we know that she’d end up a consultant and someone that people look to for advice about online engagement? Did you see this coming? I thought he’d be president united states by now myself? No, no pressure. Thanks, dad, but i didn’t want to go into politics. I amy always had a sense of what was right and wrong, you know, always interacting with other children. You know, she always knew what was right or wrong. She never made bad decisions that i can see. And if she did so well, i hit way didn’t know about it. All right, well, we’re back, but she has a sphere of alligators. Is that is that you’re doing? Is that is that? You’re doing, she has a fear of alligators, is that you’re doing a fear of alligators. You’re not aware of this? Well, we don’t have many alligators over here where we live in oregon and oregon in oregon, oregon. Now i know i never knew he had any fears at all. Tony all right. It was an example after a trip to florida, and tony will let me live it down if it comes up to you. Okay. Yeah, i have a fear of snakes. Oh, i don’t think i pass that on to her. I don’t know if alligators are reptiles like snakes are alligators may or may not be reptiles. Maybe maybe look together. Alright. Alright. We’re gonna let you go back to work, tim. All right, perfect. Thank you very much for calling the opportunity. We’re going. You don’t have to your daughter by tim sample. Okay. Goodbye. All right. I wanted to have some fun. Do that that’s fair. Okay. This’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. You are in charge of the shop. Future president. I know i the bar’s pretty high now. Yeah, i in fact, when alison find was here last week, i asked her if she thought that a presidential candidate could emerge outside the two major parties from online on, and she felt that it could eventually, but that we would see local local races first. Mayor’s maybe governors or senators, you know, but more local than presidential right away. But i was i had you in mind. I had your president cha operations. I don’t. I want to. You know, there’s. Another election coming up it’s true only only only few years. It’s. Really? Not all that far away. So exactly. Okay, she felt it was possible. Do you think it’s possible for a for their previous president there emerges online. Yeah, especially. I think around someone from a grassroots campaigning background not political, necessarily, but someone that’s that’s already actively working online to bring people together for other social issues or other kinds of campaigns. So so someone who’s in it in that way, i think, could easily cross over to say great. Well, now i want to run for for an elected position versus i’m just going to be the organizer that keeps this. Keeps this movement going. Okay. You have anybody in mind? Apparently i need to put myself in the strike don’t talk about other candidate. Exactly. Were we stupid? All right, i will go on the record shows up today never mentioning another candidate. All right, um, let’s oh, there was one more thing. I want to point out that matching gif ts is another possible, maybe another another possible testing. So oh, exactly the existence of or how big a match might be, right? Especially, you know, something to think about with phrasing of matching gifts is there’s the version of, you know, if we get to this number, we get that same total matched or every ten dollars gets matched. So then people think, well, my ten dollars isn’t going to mean much to this really big pot. We have to get two of twenty thousand, but if instead you say the matches, you know, dollar for dollar, whatever you khun give, how does that affect your community? Because some communities may really get behind the idea of, like, having to get to that really big number together and other communities want to feel like they’re five dollars, was still matched and still meant ten dollars, for the organization. So think about the way you use the match in your campaign, and several weeks ago we had a university professor on from university of chicago john list talked about scientific research around matching gift does does a three to one match necessarily pulled more than a one to one match? Right and where and on dh? Also in the phraseology of the match, the way you’re describing and that will show was on february eighth of this year. If you want to hear discussion about the scientific research specifically around matching gift excellent, we’re going to take more of a break, another break, and when we come back, we’ll talk more about who gets involved in the campaign, some budgeting, maybe some calendar ring and things like that and also tony’s take too, of course, comes before all that. Stay with me more with amy coming up first pursuant, check them out for lots of free resource is week after week, um, urging you to browse the collection, as my library used to say in elementary school, browse the collection that was when we had those card catalogs looking that they weren’t literally index cards or little cards were that brass rod ran through the ran through the middle on the bottom of the cards. It was always shiny and slippery, and you could get their little those little cards. And they used the dewey decimal system. We don’t know. Uh, we still use the dewey decimal, so i don’t even know. Do it. Yeah, but browse the collection and pursuing its much easier than the brass rotted dahna card catalogs of yesteryear. And where do you go? So you click. You go to pursuing dot com and you click resources. And then as you start your browsing the maybe the blogged or webinars or content papers or infographics. It’s all right, there. No card catalog required pursuing dot com. We’ll be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. You need money for your good work? Yes. Throw a spelling bee. You know i hate the word. Let us. I got stuck on lettuce was or greenlee was all it was all iceberg at the time. I hate the word. Let us i love but thea tangible manifestation of the word i enjoy but not the word itself. I digress. Host a spelling bee make millennial money. These are ideal fundraisers for millennials with spelling bee. And live music, et cetera. Stand up. Comedy dancing check out the video at we b e spelling dot com and talkto alex career the ceo now time for tony’s take two. Thank you so glad that you are with us. Whether it is let’s, do it backwards. I hate to break with tradition. It’s it’s so risky, but we start with the affiliate affections. And i am so glad that our am and fm listeners are with us week after week wherever your station fits us into there. Line up. So glad to have you with us podcast pleasantries always going out two the two are precious podcast listeners precious podcast pleasantries. I’m not going to do that every week now. Two’s enough podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand listening in the time shift so glad that you are with us thank you. And alive listener love always goes out you know who you are you know where you are. I can’t shut you out by city and state this very day. Although i will be able to next week and the week after live listener love to you thank you for being with us and also, if you are a non-profit radio insider and i get into your inbox every thursday. Thank you for letting me in there. I’m grateful that is tony, take two. And here is amy sample ward continuing with her book, social change. Anytime everywhere you gotta get this book for god’s sake, just get it. Amy who’s, who should be involved in this work? And how are we going? Estimate the time that’s going to be involved in our online campaign? Sure, i think fund-raising campaigns just like any other campaigns organization, maybe running advocacy list building, you know, community engagement, etcetera can’t be thought of as something that’s completely contained within the fund-raising department, because ultimately there are e mails and there’s this a b testing on the website, and all of those other components require all different staff from different departments. So it’s an opportunity to create, i think, processes we suggest in the book, where you will have regular opportunities for staff across departments, not necessarily like on all staff meeting, but staff across departments that are ultimately all creating the success of that campaign to come together, whether that’s like every week or however your organization wants to do it. To have a meeting where you’re all in the room at the same time, or all on video chat or whatever you want to do so that everyone’s talking about it. So as soon as you break that campaign down into the people that are in charge of the email never talked to the people that were in charge of actually counting how many people are coming through the form, then you’ve already said, well, we’re not even going to have the best conversation we can have with this campaign staff aren’t talking to each other, so creative process first, so that everyone involved is coming together regularly to talk about kosh, we saw that this button language was the best. Well, the e mail better have that same button language. You know, any abie testing that you’re doing anything you’re learning about what’s working with the campaign should then be immediately reflected in all the other components. So how you either evaluate ahead of time, staff time or recognize all those different pieces are maybe serving the rest of the organization. So thinking of of people in communications is not just communications staff that all they do is communicate. But they also served fund-raising and they also serve advocacy, and they also served programs. So what does that mean as far as your staff plan? And what does that mean for your value evaluation of staff? You know, those communications staff in this example couldn’t just say, well, my job is to send e mail and i sent them, but how, you know, how was your function in this organization, reflective of our success in our fundraising campaign were reflective of the success in our advocacy campaign so that it’s showing that that person isn’t just responsible for hitting send on thousands of emails but showing them even in their own evaluation, that they’re part of the whole organization success, which i think is critical for having all of your staff buy-in toe working towards your mission, you know, as soon as you say, well, your job is just the website what their job is the web site, because it’s serving the mission of helping people understand you know what your your cause is all about and so did did they lead the baby testing that help figure out that that button actually could have, you know, in increased by fifteen percent the donations that’s huge that’s, not just the fund-raising team that’s also that person who’s managing the website. What about the smaller shop? Just a two or three person arts group? I mean, how are we going to build even? Ah, modest campaign into what we’re trying to. We’re struggling to keep get getting done day in, day out, right? I think for smaller organizations, but really, the same lesson applies to everyone. Ah lot of of the components of the campaign are actually developed way in advanced. If you’re collecting stories actively as you are working with your community year and you’re keeping those stories not just on a piece of paper in your desk, but, you know, kind of like a story bank you have, you have ah, bank. You could draw from of all these different stories then in that moment when you need to create a campaign, maybe it’s a response of campaign because some horrible event has happened. And you want to make sure people are aware of your services. You know, for example, you have that content. You don’t have to then spend a week developing. Okay, who’s who from our community do we want to talk to you know, where could we get a story about our services in action? You’ve already created that content in advance, so especially when you only have two people, the more you can do to just kind of be librarians, you know, tio, cart, chronicle and archive all that you have all the time so that you can really easily just say that’s, you know, the book i want that’s, the story i want off that shelf and let’s put it into this email and then again, a be testing is so, i think, critical for really small shops, because if you really can just say, we’re going to send this e mail to one hundred people each and then know that the one that got more opens is what we’re going to send even though it took you maybe an extra five minutes to go back and say, okay, now send this list that was a really great five minutes, because it means you’re getting that many more people opening that message. Let’s look, a tte budgeting our campaign may involve some adwords facebook, facebook yeah, how are we going toe? How do? We figure out what what we should be too spending money on is beyond the time that also is an indirect, indirect cost, right? First, obviously, you know, you have to have the caveat of it all depends what’s your campaign about where is your community? Ah lot of people have have realized that you’re not necessarily just going to make all of your money from your fund-raising campaign on facebook, but a lot of those people that are participating as donors, maybe on your facebook page. So thinking about how you budget for promotion of the campaign versus budget, for the call to action, you know, you may want to just invest in having ads showing the efficacy of your work so that when people are then emailed a call to donate, they’re like, oh, yeah, you guys do really great stuff. I do want to donate via email because that’s my, you know, i’ll just click don’t and go to your website, but maybe it’s different for your forget it community, maybe your community doesn’t really know, and they just need to be told, like there was a disaster and donate, you know, it depends a lot in the circumstances, i think it’s also, especially with things like facebook, where they’re changing the algorithm like every five hours you have to do so may be testing, you have to invest in that a be testing. So you know which of these ads are working better? Do we do promoted posts, or do we do ads? So some of it is just having a reserve of that advertising budget to test with, and you don’t have to spend a lot of money now, like facebook ads are not expensive, right? For-profit lee fifty dollars or so you could oh, exactly, you attest? Oh, for sure, yeah, and the problem or the great opportunity that could become a new obstacle for organizations, is that when you get in there to do a facebook at our, you know, promoted post, you’re you’re presented with the opportunity to pick like which gender location, background so many details, but it can either be overwhelming and you just say, well, i just wanted to go to everyone, and then you’re going to run out of that fifty dollars budget instantly, you know, or you get so narrow and who you want this ad to? Go, too, but it never really goes to anyone. So i think there’s a little bit of opportunity, teo play even just with that, that scale of who do you really want to promote this to? Who is your donor? And what do you know about them? Which goes back to what we talked about months ago, about how, you know, investing and knowing who your community is first, so that you can say the right things on the right channels, and i appreciate that your advice always is. What are the goals of the campaign right now, and not only to raise the money that that? Well, actually, the campaign may not be about even about money, but may not only be the explicit purpose of the campaign, but also to grow engagement in the long term, bring some new people to the cause may not even fremery respond to your call to action, but now they’ve joined your community exactly, exactly. And for them this you know, your campaign that maybe their friend donated teo was the first time they had heard aboutyou, but they’re now hearing about you in a really trusted way because they heard that. A friend not only supported your work but gave money to your work, and now they just want to follow along, and eventually you can, you know, encourage them up that ladder of engagement to become a donor as well. And in that respect, not everything in your campaign has to be about the call to action, right? I mean, i know i guess you want the called action to be frequent, but there can be things that are informative beyond the call to action. Exact. I think a lot of organizations will shook about a fundraising campaign, i think. Okay, first and foremost, they’re donating to this campaign. They’re going to donate to this campaign. They really get that out there, and then people donate and then there’s nothing else, you know. So people feel like, well, i did the thing, but there has to be more aiken dio so recognizing that there is always more they khun dio having that thank you, paige, push them to the very next step. What’s the next step for you is that great. Thanks for donating here’s the button to share on facebook that you just donated, you know, or is the email confirmation encouraging them to share their story about why they donated so that now you have one more story and your story bag, you know, so think about what people can do to still feel like they’re contributing to this forward motion because they already donated, which is huge, so don’t take someone who’s willing to take a really big action and then just dropped them off, keep them, you know, sustained that engagement and keep them engaged so that you can ask them to donate again, you know, if they haven’t heard from you, and now you’re asking again for them to donate well, they feel like don’t you remember that i already donated? But if you’ve said, you know, hey, share this on facebook? Hey, give us your story, etcetera, and then you say thank you for donating. Please help some more. They feel like yes, of course we are trying to get there together. What is ah, home page hijack? Uh, it’s called many things, but basically i’m sure most people have experiences when you go to a website and you just, you know, landed on the website haven’t clicked on anything, and then something pops. Up, even the new york times does this you think you’re going to go read an article from the new york times that your friend just tweeted that and there’s a thing that pops up that says, don’t you want to pay for new york times content? Why don’t you subscribe? That’s that’s ah, home page hijacked, for example, it’s basically a light box that pops up and says, whatever you thought you were here to read. This is what we want you to read and it’s great for people that if they really are just hitting your home page because maybe they were, you know, searching online for something and came to your website, they don’t know or you’re directed people back to your website, and it can pop up and say, this is what’s happening here is the called action here’s, that big red button that says support haiti or whatever, and obviously they could close out of the box or lorts like off it, etcetera, but the fact that it makes it super front and center lit literally front and center on the website helps direct that traffic into the call to action where you could maybe. Instead of them seeing your home page that’s, you know, normally fairly generic has lots of navigation, et cetera and drives them to a page that’s just about the campaign, you know, really focus. They can see the donate form they khun see whatever helps funnel people just to the campaign instead of accidentally clicking unlike, oh, what is this organization about? And what do you do and what’s? This other thing? I see a photo of, you know, it just helps funnel people in where you want them to go. You have advice about how frequently someone may see that home page hijack, so maybe it shouldn’t be more than once a week person and the technology will support that our exam twice a week per person or whatever you think exactly, yeah, i mean, it’ll where people out if every time they go to any page of your website, they’re getting this pop up essentially, you know, but if you can say yeah, once a week or the first time someone comes to the website because maybe outside of a fundraising campaign, you could use that for many things you could have it say, join our email list. You know, subscribe to our news, whatever you want that pop up to be. So if you see that every time, well, gosh, i signed up a week ago, and i’m seeing it every day, you know, so just may be the first time that i p address hits the web site, you know? We’re going to take a break in about a minute. We want to have some print possibly to be in support of our campaign. I want to just open that topical bit. We’ll talk more about it shortly. Sure, i think print is actually a great medium, especially for fund-raising still one of the main drivers of fund-raising effort so looking again at that piece as a way to frame all of the content that’s going to come later because you’re going to be ableto change up at the very last minute, what you tweet and what you put in an e mail, etcetera. But if that print piece supports that overall call to action, the overall message and maybe has just won fairly general story that you can then really dig into that story of what that person’s you know, experience was or what those services mean to the community it’s a great way to frame things as a oh, yeah, i remember this. You know, every time they then get an email from you. All right, we’ll talk more about this and the and the fund-raising plan in general, when we return with amy, sample ward, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page. Tony martignetti dot com i’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hi there again and welcome back. Uh, anything more that you want to say about print in support of this, i would i would add that prince should certainly be needs to be in this fund-raising calendar with a campaign calendar that we talked about last month and it’s something that we’ve talked about in the past, i forget what episode number, but we talked about competition and how teo, you know, if if you were doing a phone bank, for example, of donations and you and you mentioned the research shows, at least if you were to mention, you know, the previous collar don’t thisyou know people are more inclined to say, well, i’m going to do that if someone else did print is a really easy way to do that as well, because you clearly know where they live, you are mailing something to them. So say, on average, people in your neighborhood donated this last year to our campaign. Oh, my gosh, now they like now i’m going to look in on my neighbor’s like which ones of you donated one hundred dollars? Now i feel guilty, i’m going to donate a hundred dollars, you know? So so keep those same principles that you use online with making it be a riel story, having it connected to something directly when your mission have a very clear call to action. But then take advantage of that local competition that peer pressure of this is this is really, really in your neighborhood. But also this is how people are actually helping us. So you should too. We can also have competition in telemarketing right in our telephone call once just remind i think this may have been last month, but in the way that callers are greeted, andi encouraged or thanked for their past giving there could be some competitiveness. Exactly. Exactly. So i’m not just saying like, oh, thanks you want to donate, but also, you know oh, you have reviews caller. Exactly. The previous collar donated this. And if you can, if you can hear sometimes, you know it’s it’s hard to just make a judgment. But if you could hear that it was a male calling and you could say, oh, well, the man before you donated this, if you if you have that opportunity to be gender specific, the results or even hyre from studies that say, you know, once i’m told the previous collar was a woman and she don’t even more than me well, man, i want to donate as much as her, so all right, let’s, let’s wrap up our campaign with the thank you’s yes, thank you’s are critical and thank you don’t have to be at the end of the campaign. Thank you should be every time someone’s done something, so when they sign up for that email lists, you know, thank them if they donated, thank them, but also do that thinking in public when you can, you know, you’ll see people in the campaign putting on facebook that they, you know, because they got to the thank you page, the confirmation page, and they tweeted, or they posted to facebook that they just donated, well, that’s a great place if the organization is then liking that post, if you you know, privacy settings are such that you can see their post or on twitter, the organization is retweeting them to them that’s huge validation the organization noticed that i just tweeted out, you know, that i donated and i’m i got retweeted or i got thanked publicly and that certainly doesn’t take, you know, a lot of effort, you’re not creating any new content you’re just saying thank you very much, but it can mean a lot publicly for the community to see those individual voices being thanked. How do you feel about the mailing of small, maybe small tokens? Oh, yeah, of gratitude o i think i think a hand written note, even if all it says is, you know, tony, thanks so much for your donation. Amy. It was a hand written note. It had to go through the mail, you know? It means a lot exactly could be something online, maybe maybe a little gift certificate or a discount to a site or something. Exactly how else can we say the small ways of saying thank you, right? And i there are lots of ways where, you know, and and ten we can say thank you by saying, you know, to thank you for what you’ve done here is a free webinar, for example, you know, web in our past, but for other organizations, it can also be an opportunity to say, because you donated, you’re now invited to this event that’s only for our donors, you know, so you’re also providing access to something that is otherwise exclusive, and you can use that as a way to say, hey, all of our donors are going to be joining us at this, you know, a local place that everyone knows is really fun or, you know, historic or whatever come join us in this, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, because he’ll be a national campaign, but you could say, if you’re a donor, you’ll get the link to the live stream and you get to be there for this interview with our founder or whatever, and even if people don’t want to go it’s still saying, we know tony, you donated, and we want you as part of this conversation, just the act of inviting exact is very, very it is very gracious exactly in heimans larger organizations that i that i work with will often invite people on the other side of the country to a luncheon that we’re hosting in new york city to to say thank you right way don’t expect them to come. We know the observers are tiny that they will, but the act of the invitation what if they were going to be in town for other business where they were going to be in town, meeting with someone? And now they can say, oh, while i’m there, i’m also going to go to this luncheon because i donated and that’s really cool, you know, i’ve never asked you this. You’ve been on many times. What is it that you love about the work that you do, this whole body of work that you that you’re involved with? What is it you love? I i love the people like i love that we are in a position to get to support not just one person that we’ve met, you know, and, like, help them do whatever, but we can help hold communities that’s really exciting, you know, or that you can help all of those people in the community know that they’re in a community i mean, i think that’s the really exciting power of the internet is that people thought i’m the only person that has x y and z here and the only person it’s experienced this, and now they go online like, oh my gosh, i’m not special at all there’s a million. People who’ve had this and so part of it is that that feeling of like, i’m not special, but i’m not special because there are so many of these other special people you know, and getting to find them and create community with each other, even when you can’t all be physically in the same room. Her latest book is social change anytime everywhere you’ll find amy’s blawg at amy, sample ward, dot or ge once again a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Be sure and thank him for calling it. I will. That’s, dad, dad to you? Yes, next week i know it won’t be fermentation if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. Wee bey e spelling dot com a creative, producers clad meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez and this music is by scott stein he with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for July 7, 2017: Social Change Anytime Everywhere, Part I

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My Guest:

Amy Sample Ward: Social Change Anytime Everywhere, Part I

Amy Sample Ward

Our social media contributor’s book is “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.” When it came out we talked about how your nonprofit can raise money, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our anytime, everywhere world. Four years later, Amy Sample Ward’s book remains relevant and valuable. (Originally aired 3/15/13)

 

 


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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Our three hundred fiftieth show is coming up it’s july twenty eighth, three weeks oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of skill algeria if you kicked me with the idea that you missed today’s show social change anytime everywhere part one our social media contributors book is social change anytime, everywhere when it came out, we talked about how your non-profit can raise money, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our any time everywhere world. Four years later, amy sample wards book remains relevant and valuable absolutely that originally aired on march fifteen twenty thirteen. I’m tony take two hello, nc tech for good. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com here is aimee semple ward and me talking about her book social change any time everywhere amy’s not here yet, so we’re going do a little a little preview of her book, a little browse through her book. The first thing that i want to point out is that i wish it had more pictures when i’m when i’m picking books. I i flipped through looking for pictures, and i probably would not have bought her book. It didn’t have enough pictures for me. I like pictures, like more graphic, so it has graphics and has some screen shots. Ah, it’s, very good that way, but i would like more. I would like more pictures in amy’s book. Aside from that, any simple word has just joined us. Well, i’m sure you did. All right, pick moment. Take a moment. Compose yourself if we figured you were in the subway, i was just saying, i wish your book had more pictures. Oh, yeah. Pictures of what? Just it doesn’t really matter. I don’t know. Cute dogs, landscapes, landscapes yeah, i just looked and i look for pictures as i’m i’m browsing through the book section the books it was meant more for reading than browsing. But ok, take another breath. Your yes. You knew you knew that we were waiting for you, and yeah, i was going to be fine, but welcome. Thank you. Have you for the full hour? Yeah, exactly. I’m happy to be here for as much of the subway would let me to be our best majority. I did tony’s take two in advance. So? So whenever i’ll have that time together, congratulations on your book. Thank you. It’s called, written by alison is keeping kapin kapin much. Tell us about alison she’s, the founder of radcampaign and the tele summit and network women who tech she’s based in d c ah, she’s. Pretty. Cool. Yeah. I met her because i was at your book launch. Oh, that’s right book launch that you did at the at planned parenthood parenthood federation. Yeah, yeah, that was very good to about forty people. If you got to meet your husband, max? Yes, very nice. Often left alone as your traveling throughout the country. Yes. That’s the that’s the first time he’s ever seen me speak in any capacity in public? Yes. He said that i didn’t talk to him. You know, first time i know for certain that lovely. Um okay, we’re in. Why do you let’s make this clear? Where? Ok, i need any time everywhere, what’s, what’s our anytime, everywhere world that you are trying to help people make social change in. Well, the anytime everywhere is really focused on the people, not the organization. So all of your constituents, donors, supporters, whatever you want to call them, they are, you know, living their lives basically around the clock, their life. And they are thinking about okay, if i want to talk to this person, i’m going to do it here or if i want to talk about this topic, i’m going to do it here you just interact with your community, however you do as an individual, it might mean a friend calls you and then after you hang up, maybe you go look at facebook and interact with another friend there and then maybe send your mom and email, you know, but you’re not thinking okay, well, i only talked to sam on the phone on, i only talk to my friend barb in email, you know, you as people, we don’t treat our communications and our networks in that way, so organization shouldn’t be saying, ok, well, we only send you emails or we only let you talk about our campaign on facebook. We need to think about the way we communicate and allow our communities to engage with us as as a way that crosses all those channels as well, okay? We’re not segmenting our lives and write our community our conversations, right? Stilted, like communications are conversations, right? I see somebody on foursquare check in and i’ll make a snarky comment or something. E i have seen one of those geever andi didn’t answer it as i recall, um, in fact, you were recently traveling, you were in south by southwest i wass that’s. Ah, what i think of it is just a big music and party and drink fest. Is that what many people think of it that way as well? I’ve never been there at the beauty of being me is that i can know nothing about something and still be an expert in that. Yes, of course. Oh, i think i’m very well acquainted herself by southwest, even though i’ve never been there. Why don’t you tell us what the rial tell people like me who think that everything that they know nothing about but it’s a very comfortable place to be. Actually i what is south by southwest? Well, it are very originally was a music festival, but now has three components music tech interactive, which is really all kinds of technology, not just social media, including gaming and all kinds of interfaces hardware, software, etcetera and film. So film and interactive take place the same week. Concurrently on then the following week is all music. Were you there in your capacity as membership director of non-profit technology network? I waas so there’s a non-profit lounge there lounges of all different types sponsored by different people so there’s, a blogger lounge meant for bloggers to find each other, etcetera. So the non-profit lounge is sponsored each year by beaconfire ah, long time, you know, and ten member organization sponsor etcetera. And they opened it up for others to get to be in the space with them. So and ten had a presence. We had a couple couches, if you will. And i was also working with them to manage the content each day so that people that were start in the lounge, what kind of cause that we had was that we had a different topic each day. So we had one day was focused on measurement and metrics. One day was focused on engaging millennials. One day was focused on technology, staffing and the capacity around technology. Um, there were a couple more, and we so we highlighted little, you know, not not trivia because they’re real. But, you know, just little tidbits from our research each day based on that topic. So you come in the room and learn different things. And then at lunchtime we had panels on that topic so people that we knew were going to be either at south. By southwest are actually based in austin that we could bring in to talk that day, just with whoever wanted to be there and engage with them. And then night times that was the drink fest in well, for some, i think drinking started as early is, like eleven, because i guess technically it’s noon on the east coast. Yes, yes, all right, anything. Did you learn a couple of one or two little things that that you didn’t know or maybe reinforce something that what was your was your take home from from south by that’s me something? Yeah, i think you know, they’re always different applications or tools that get launched itself myself west. So people, you know, waiting, teo, unveil some new application, and so there was a bit of that as well, but i think this year, the feeling that i got from a lot of the non-profit and social impact crowd at the conference was that people are really starting to get to a place where they feel really proud about some of the things they’ve done in their non-profit and they they wish, you know hey, what? Why don’t we get all the attention? You know, just because that really big organization, you know, that has tons of marketing budget and had tried and tried many things and then succeeded with something, you know, we’re a tiny organization, and we did that to, you know, they want a platform for their voices to but, you know, south by is always kind of mixing up the content and have had different tracks and and things like that over the years. So it’s not to say that there will never be a platform for them. But i think this year, there are a lot of organizations there, you know, looking for a place where they could stand on their soapbox and and get to share with everyone what they’ve worked on. All right and excellent that they got that exactly like to see that small, especially small and midsize shops getting attention. Craig newmark wrote the forward to your book. Craig is the founder of craig craig’s list, of course. And craigconnects he’s been our guest on the show twice. I think that was a trivia question once. How many times you been on the show? Oh, did we do that? Oh, i think we did. I think for a giveaway and weigh just you were my guest for the hundredth show and we’re giving away, yes, but the answer’s two way long ago gave away a lot of intense swag for us to give away. Yes, and he says in the forward that social media and good customer service or big deals you think we were going to you and i talk every month about social media, we know that that’s a big deal, good customer service what? Why? Why is he talking about that with respect to social engagements? Social change? Well, i think it doesn’t matter if you’re for-profit aura non-profit if you do true direct service or not, ah lot of the most basic day to day interactions that you could be having with your community take the form of customer service, even if you know, in a non-profit we normally don’t call them that, but but answering people’s questions or just being able to be present on social media, where you see people asking a question, even if it’s not about you being the organization that can answer the question for them and really playing a service role builds community in such a small kind of passive way, but that israel and you’re creating value with them that it is a matter you know, if you are comcast and you want to use twitter to answer customer service questions or, you know you’re the humane society and you want to use twitter to make sure people know how to get help with their animals and and, you know, i like your just broad definition of what’s customer service. I mean, it may just be interacting on a day to day, right? You may not think of it as a service to the customer just having, you know, we’re just engaged in a conversation there on the engagement ladder and which is that we’re just, you know, talking to them right, exactly and helping helping your supporters take advantage of all that they could do with you is customer service, you know, someone calling and saying, i want to volunteer, but i don’t know how and you pointing them in the direct in the right direction that is still a customer service function in your organization got some live listener love we’re talking about texas austin, texas, where itself by was but we have san antonio on the line, santa or on the web, you know, antonio, texas, live listeners love, welcome, welcome to the show and the conversation. Let’s, talk, talk a fair amount, i think about fund-raising and then how will we even, you know, engagement and advocate could you get, you know, getting talking toa advocates and motivating advocates? And you spent some time talking about the different motivations to give why white people are giving on dh. There certainly have been articles and books on this right by the the traditional, i guess, fund-raising prose that are out there, you you spent a little time with emotions, emotions versus statistics, right? What would you like to say there? Well, obviously, we are humans. We are driven by emotion. Um, and i think that a lot of online tools facilitate that really well, you know, how many times have we seen a tweet or gotten an email where they say, you know, this many million people in this country are dealing with this issue and it’s like, okay, well, i don’t actually know a billion people, so i can’t conceptualize that very well, you know, but having a story that directly connects with you. And is someone that’s already been served by that organization helps you understand the kind of person that is may be dealing with that issue and the way that the organization helps them. Because that’s really what we need thio conceive as the person who’s going to take action. Isn’t that what does it really mean for a billion people to be dealing with this issue? But what does it look like to help a person with dealing with that issue? If i can conceptualize what changing the fate is, then i can understand how i can help it and be a part of it. But if it’s just the raw data, it’s really hard to see what the action is in that, and social media really helps with storytelling because you can have, you know, people interacting people sharing their own story in response to that story, it really facilitates that. But the other part of emotion is our natural competitiveness and, you know, not really wanting to say, oh, yeah, my friend karen gave a lot more to that organization that i did. Who says that? Who says, oh, i gave the least. Of my friends, you know, and and tapping into that natural competitiveness, you know, using your pressure for good is actually very successful. One of the research reports that we sight in the book was in pledges, so so, like a pledge drive over the phone, but still you could do this on social media. But when the caller you know, talking to the donor said that the previous caller had given more than they were about to pledge, they then up to their pledge and they upped it even more when the collar sad? Oh, actually, the woman before you, if it was a woman collar and once they knew it was the same gender is them, they gave even more so just by presenting the opportunity to be outdone by someone else, people wanted to beat them. We’re going to talk that’s, outstanding. We had a guest i had guessed professor jin xiang from the university of indiana, and she had done research with this was telephone based also with public radio in bloomington, indiana. When when? When certain, whether she had five key words and when they were used to thank the person you’re or to describe. The person as as a donor. So you’re very kind of you to give or it’s very compassionate of you to give that it increased the the donations right for that call. And actually i think that we’re doing it. I’m being a little inarticulate, but where they were doing it was i want to thank you for your kind donations in the past, or your compassionate or your thoughtful donations in the past, and we hope that you’ll you’ll help us today. Yeah, those using there were five different adjective she had and they could trigger they would trigger hyre giving than someone who who was just thanked. Thank you for your past giving, right. So this is this is really interesting when it’s gender and when there’s a comparison to the previous calling out how were they, you know, like what the language they were using because you don’t be snarky about it, right? Right. Do you remember i were introducing that it’s now the top of my head. It was something like, you know, similar. Like, thanks so much for your desire to give the woman before you donated fifty. How much would you like to donate? So you’re just kind of using it as a context setting statement and then giving them the chance to say, like, well, darn it, i’m given sixty five, you know? Yeah, yeah, excellent. Okay, um going back to your point about big numbers versus a face, i found a quote, i’m going to quote mother teresa, i found a quote that that’s pertinent to this, i think she said, never worry about numbers, help one person at a time and always start with the person nearest you. Social media can make a story come alive it complete person near you could be pictures on instagram. It could be video youtube video on your blogged you can you can put a face to the the homelessness or the hunger that affects a billion people right, and show people how their gift will will impact that that story right? And i like the part of the quote that says start with the person nearest to because that’s too, what we’ve talked about many times in the show don’t go out there and try and find these new people. You already have a community of people that you work with, that you’ve served. Start with their stories and then other people will come out of the woodwork. You know that identify with that story or that have also been served, but maybe i hadn’t talked to you before, so start with the stories you already have and just show them out to the to the rest of the community. Ok, so some peer pressure, yes, about suffering a little point about about suffering can be a valuable, motivated give yeah, it’s kind of a weird nuance on competition. It’s it’s part of why things like walkathon tze and challenges of you know, if i if someone donates five thousand dollars, i’ll shave my head because we actually really liketo watch each other half to deal with something that we don’t have to deal with. And so it’s it’s part of why we khun sake, great! You know, if you pledge, i’ll have to run this many miles. Terrific! I would like to see my friend have to run that many miles. Yeah, and again, doing that in a place where all those people you know in a like a thon process where all those people are competing for donations gives you both layers. Of the captain’s competing against each other for the most pledges, but then also all of their friends saying, oh, yeah, i want my friend to have tto shave his head back in the dark. Days before before, i knew you as well as i do. Those were the dark days. They were. Well, they were more your doctor, darker for you. If you’re going, there were much darker for you before you knew me then. And then before i knew you. I was used to now, so you’ve even like you, really? You haven’t liked me because i used to pay more attention to vanity metrics, then you and i have talked about vanity tricks, and i’m going to give the quintessential example of it in a second. I pay less attention to those things now more involved in the more thinking about the engagement, and i was paying at that time very close attention to the number of facebook like likes, likes of the show’s facebook page, and this was a couple of years ago, and i wanted to get to three hundred and i don’t remember where we started, right? But i with some high school friends of mine who were willing tto co chair, the campaign, i issued the blue pedicure challenge, and i said that i would get a blue pedicure if friends from anywhere but the two friends from high school with cochair radcampaign if we would get to three hundred likes and of course we did get the three hundred likes within a certain time is like two weeks or so. We’ve got three hundred and and i went across the street from the studio. Here, there’s, just get up on the second floor. There’s a salon and i got a blue pedicure and i had a video it’s sons on the youtube channel. It was great fun. Yeah, and people said, you know, a soon as we got the three hundred are weighted the blue pedicure. Yeah, it’s only gonna make good on the way we want to see the photo so i had video of me making my appointment, which was won. And then i picked my color. Nice different shades of blue, of course. Of course i picked my blue color. And then i went back a week later for my appointment, and i upgraded to the paraphernalia axe also, i got the paraphernalia. I don’t even know what that means, but well, they put your feet in warm wax. Oh, interesting wax. Okay, yeah. I don’t know what i’m supposed to soften. I think too interesting. That was my first and last pedicure left so many questions now, so well, they’re all answered on the video there i’ll go to the video i block i met blogged it too. I know it’s on the but certainly it’s on youtube blue pedicure challenge you took a multi-channel approach to this pedicure experience i did that’s true, because we campaign was in multi-channel on dh then the impact in the outcome were were probably blawg and certainly facebook on dh youtube e did take multi-channel provoc any other and plenty of engagement, lots of engagement it was great fun. Yeah, it was good. So pie in the face you use the pie in the face. Example in the back. There’s. A picture of someone one of the few pictures in the book has someone getting those lots of graphs and good pictures. Has someone getting a pie in the face and there’s a picture of alison’s dog in the book leah leah lida lida lida like peter with a now okay, why is why is there dog picture? Because they adopted her. And so there’s ah, case study in there about an adoption campaign. Okay, so there you go. There’s a picture and it’s a cute. I didn’t say there were no pictures. I said it’s not enough to suit me. Wait, we’re coming out in the fall with color book edition graphic novel way have just about a minute before break let’s talk about the last area of motivation sharing impact you and i talked about this before, but let’s just remind listeners how important that is. Yeah, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, i think a lot of organizations when they think sharing impact, they think, okay, well, you know what? The campaign’s over wilson, an email that says, we got all of the money and now we’re going to do though nothing. There we go, that’s the report, but but there’s versions of sharing impact that are kind of like evergreen content. You know, the putting, putting some of your expenditures or big, successful things in the footer of your email. So anytime someone goes in the photo of your website, anytime someone goes your website, they see this is how much money is being devoted two programs, and this is what those programs have created or whatever. There’s also reached the research that shows on donation forms where you actually show the impact of the money people donate more so again, just just keeping it really clear, clear and present all the time as an opportunity, right? Wait, go away for a couple minutes. And when we come back, of course, amy stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Hyre more with amy sample ward coming up first pursuant their info graphic it is five steps to win at data driven fund-raising i’m always telling you that they are data driven here’s the proof this cool infographic shows you how to define your fund-raising goals what the most important metrics are and how to optimize to get your best fund-raising results be data driven, you should be it’s a good way to live you’ll find the infographic at pursuing dot com you’re quick resource is then infographics! How much simpler could it be? We’d be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. You need money for your good work. I know you do throw a spelling bee and don’t get knocked out if you participate, don’t if don’t get knocked out on the word lettuce like i did in seventh grade that sucked, and to this day i can’t look ahead of iceberg lettuce because that’s all we had when i was in seventh grade iceberg was all we had. Now, of course, we’ve got bib and boston greenleaf red leaf, you could even throw shard in some people. Consider kale, let us so much broader let us spectrum now, but it was iceberg, then i can’t i can’t even eat iceberg plus it’s not very nutritious, i think, but i can’t look ahead ahead of iceberg lettuce without getting a stomach churn, so don’t get knocked out in the world. Let us check out the video at we b e spelling dot com, then talk to the ceo alex greer. Do it now. Time for tony’s take two hello and c tech for good. I was at that conference last month in north carolina and delivered my first workshop on podcasting. I’ve talked about planned e-giving and charity registration through the decades to be precise, but i finally they persuaded me actually to do something on podcasting, and i went outside my comfort zone and now it’s in my comfort zone, so i did it once, so expert on, but i’ve been doing it a long time, so the weapon are that it wasn’t a webinar was a workshop live in face-to-face it was five lessons from seven years of non-profit radio and hello to all the smart nufer philantech folks that i met there, there were few listeners there and insiders getting the insider alerts. Hello, jean lisa, caitlin heather stephanie, tiffani good luck with that podcasting project that you’re tryingto trying to get kicked off there. There were no guy listeners or insiders, there was always all women i don’t know it’s all un enlightened tech men in north carolina for some reason, i don’t know why many thanks for hosting me and see tek for good. Glad to have been with you, and that is tony’s take two here’s more with amy sample ward and me on her book social change. Anytime everywhere. Welcome back big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent there’s a bunch of you on facebook, there’s a bunch of you on twitter and join the conversation with those already there on twitter, use the hashtag non-profit radio thanks for joining us multi-channel let’s see what you bring in-kind caroline, caroline caroline xero eyes are san antonio is that i believe. Shut up, san antonio. Um okay, so we’re all about multi-channel we should have a plan for our multi-channel now. Engagement strategy. Turns out we are too, right? Yeah. You want to have goals? You and i have talked about some of this before, but right, putting it all together now. And you’ve put it together in a book, so it’s ah it’s worth it’s worth revisiting the stop? Yes, because they are important our multi-channel plan goals, but how are we going to figure out where we want to be? Well, especially for fund-raising you know, goals have to be really specific. It’s hard to say we’re going to do this year and campaign because we would like to raise some money and you know where we’re soup kitchen, we do things that are important, although important, not compelling has a goal for your staff to even create a campaign out of, but also for your donors to want to support. But if you can say if we raise this much money, it will actually give us this many meals in this much time, you know, three hundred meals over the course of the month. If we can raise this much money, people then can imagine both you know what their actual like hundred dollar donation means as faras how much is served, but it also sets you up to do more than your asking, you know, if you say we’re we’re shooting for ten thousand dollars and that gives us three hundred meals for the month of january as soon as you get close to the goal. It’s really easy to say terrific. Now, if we get ten thousand more, we can feed everyone for february two instead of those campaigns that you see where they’ve done a really great job, they’ve activated their community, and once it starts, they actually start raising a lot of money and then they get to the end and they think terrific close down shop, you know, the thermometer reached the top instead, you’re setting yourself up to go is much, you know, raise as much as you can in the time that you’re planning to run the campaign, and you also set yourself up. If, in case you don’t reach your number, you’re still able to report back in a successful way of saying, you know, we had high hopes of raising ten thousand and we didn’t get there, but we’re still have enough to do two hundred bills this month, and this is how you could help us, you know, after the holidays to serve those last hundred or whatever. So giving yourself a really clear goal lets you iterated kind. Of as the campaign goes and respond to how how it’s doing important, do you think tio have a time limit to your your fund-raising goal? Definitely ah lot, whether you have one week or a one month or however long that the time is, you’re going to see an initial tick and then a big drop in the valley and then as it gets closer, you know, everyone starts donating again, so it doesn’t really i mean, technically, it matters. You don’t want to say this is a yearlong donation campaign, but whatever the duration, is it’s really clear or it’s, really important to be clear about when the end date is so that people know? Okay? It’s coming oh, my gosh, i better donate now and and they actually respond to that e mail instead of just saying, oh, well, i could do it next time i remember or next time i have my wallet now we’re gonna have to figure out how to message, right? That’s it just campaign so that should be a part of our our plan also, exactly and a lot of organizations, you know when when starting to think about a campaign fund-raising or otherwise get really excited in that staff meeting when you start brainstorming like the catchphrase of the campaign, you know, and that can be fun and enjoyable, but very rarely are the witty catchphrase is actually the things that include the action and the ask so don’t spend too much time thinking of like balloons for ur or whatever like crazy thing that maybe is related to the campaign is because you want to make sure whatever very simple phrasing you use and then build your campaign off of includes the aschen, the action so what, you know, give or do this thing for, you know, this many meals in this time? And then once you have that core messaging, yu khun, start planning out of communications calendar that’s reflective of all those channels you want to use remembering, of course, offline or direct mail and not just e mail, etcetera. The other part about messaging that i see organizations forget about is is they concentrate on how they’re going to launch the campaign, and their communications calendar will say, you know, here’s, the first email that goes out and here’s how we’re going to decorate our facebook page. And rebranded there’s no date in that planet’s launch plan on them. Exactly, exactly for exaggeration plan. Sometimes organizations say, well, you know, we want to be responsive, we want to wait and see how it goes. Well, that’s totally fine, but you could still say our plan is to send a second email day three of the campaign, and we’ll be able to say what you contribute and you need to have planned out when you’re going to message so that you can say, great if day three, we’re going to send it on update email let’s, make sure later that afternoon facebook has an update as well, and not just another, you know, status report or something, so it helps you maintain a good flow across your channel. So it’s not always responsive and you’re you know, twitter isn’t just thanks, thanks, thanks, but also has things to share out. You know, that match your other communications you meant now you mentioned offline also. So this is that we’re not just talking about online social social networks, but the offline strategies should be coordinated, if that’s the way that you’re right, typically engaging with people, right? And some organizations may plan an offline launch event the day that the campaign is launching, so of course, you know there’s a lot to do there. But it’s also a good reminder to to capture content from that launch event that you can use throughout the campaign. If you have a bunch of people in one place, make sure summer your staff have their phones or flip cameras or something to take some videos, and then you have maybe half a dozen videos you can use during the course of the campaign that again, just bring up on individual story give you some divers content, etcetera, you know, whatever kinds of content you could pull from that live event. But it’s also a good reminder that many organizations, even while running a campaign, have other work that you’re doing. And so maybe you have a press event about some of your other work. Use that as an opportunity. Once the press component of that piece is over, you know you’re done talking about that policy change. You have a room full of people, then say great, you know, this is all done. I had now want to talk to you about this campaign we’re running, and we’re on day five and it’s going really well and here’s the story take advantage of all those offline opportunities to engage people kayman sample. Ward is a cz membership director of and ten, which you’ll find it, and ten dot org’s and the book that we’re talking about whether that she co authored is social change anytime everywhere you khun follow amy on twitter she’s at amy r s ward at which we know stands for rene the artist for rene and her block is amy sample ward, dot or ge? Get some more live listener love madison, wisconsin, tustin, california. Salem, oregon welcome, salem. Welcome you’re in. So you were in the salem several months ago. You were in somewhere in oregon. Weren’t portland, portland not very far away. Okay, italy, we don’t know what city in italy we just have a vague reference to italy. Bon giorno, chow. Welcome live listener love also tio sudbury in ontario, canada, and barnaby burnaby. Pardon me, burnaby in british columbia, canada. Two provinces welcome canada he’s offline strategies. Amy um, could also be so for aside from events direct mail if you usually using that. Channel telephone. Yeah, right. This these could all be coordinated in your three day or one week or one month campaign. Yeah, especially if you have stories that you know you’re going to use ahead of time in your campaign. You know things that you’ve collected in the past, because if you khun send a direct mail piece, especially just something simple, like, ah, postcard or, you know, an invitation to participate in the campaign that is from that person or telling that person story has their photo, and then two days later, you can send them an email that says, great now the campaign’s open and it has that same story. People then can say, yes, i know that story. I ready to kim. You know, i’m ready to join or actually remember that they’ve signed up with your organization at all, and that they should be engaging in this campaign. And that direct mail piece wasn’t a like mistake in their mailbox in their apartment building. What do we know about how donors give across multi-channel versus more traditional the off for the strictly off line? Well, that data is changing every year is we actually get more and more data at all have more people that we can ask survey, etcetera and and organizations are also becoming more sophisticated with being able to track there donors with they came from online or not, and then just able to report that data so it’s getting more it’s getting clearer every year, but really, we know that people that are online aren’t just saying because i found you online, i want to give to online or because i found you offline. I want to give to offline there’s actually a lot of back and forth that happens. And for most people, even if they are millennials, where people think for some reason, you know, young people only ever look at facebook even if they found you on social media, they still come to your website tto learn about your work and figure out if they want to donate to you so that relationship, maybe on facebook, that relationship may be off line at events they attend, but they still want to go to your website where they can kind of take control of what they’re looking at on your website and learn about your work. So it’s still really important that you have information on your website, but also that you provide that donation, ask an opportunity button, what have you on your website so that once they go there and learn about you, they could take that action? We also know that activists are seven times more likely to be donors, so we can’t treat people like, well, this is my activist list in this database and over here is my donor list because those activists are totally primed to now give you money, they just put their name on a bunch of work for you, they might as well, you know, give you ten dollars, so it isn’t just about allowing them to come to you wherever you are, but also making sure you’re giving everyone the opportunity to to engage in donation or fund-raising asks, excellent, uh, keeping with our multi-channel a z, i said you could join us on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio there’s some folks on the facebook page and we have a phone call. We have tim. Tim, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you very much. Hi, dad. Uh, that’s adorable. Dad called? Yes. That’s to sweden. Where you where you calling from? Amy sample wards. Dad. Well, i work important oregon, but amy was raised, and we live out in the country outside of portland. Okay. And, uh, of course, her mother knew first and called me and said, oh, my god, going to computer your daughter’s on the radio. I just had to get on here, listen and tell everybody i see how proud i am of this. Oh, thank you, dad. I love you. Now i hope you’re gonna listen. Other shows to tim, you know. Oh, i will now want you to be a regular starters down there. Yeah. Do you have? Do you have a question? You really want to ask amy? Yeah. When’s. He coming home. This’s too sweet. I love this. I’ll see you on saturday. You will at a girl. Alright. Financial proud of you, amy. Thank you, dad. Nice to meet you to let me on it’s. A pleasure to meet you, tim. If you want to, if you want. To ask a question of amy, you can call eight seven seven for eight xero for one, two, zero, eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to zero. Or you can also treat us. We’re monitoring the hashtag and the facebook page. That’s. A very nice way of saying you’re stalking social media in case people ask questions. Here in the studio, i’m busy talking now control. We want to engage people in our messages, whether they’re online offline and you talk about the hooks we have just a little we have a minute before a break, what? Just once you just tease the idea of of the hook a little bit? Sure, i mean, different people have different ideas of messaging hooks and what you can do, but i think for people really thinking about multi-channel campaigns, the important idea of ah huh, look, is that that’s the consistent piece you’re going to throw in so that whether you’re maybe sharing a photo and a story of someone on facebook that day or you’re sharing a big infographic about, you know, all this work that’s going into the campaign or maybe it’s just tweets about simple actions people can take you use a consistent hooked to bring them back into the campaign. So when isn’t just like this photo or share this info graf or, you know, retweet this step, but there’s an additional hook that always connects it backto larger campaign so people don’t think, oh, the campaign must be over, and now they’re just sharing info graphics. But but that there’s always some peace. Hooking it all together, so it, you know, you want to break the campaign and into individual stories, individual images and smaller actions, but they have to be connected. Otherwise, people don’t get why am i doing this today? And i did this other thing yesterday. We’re going to go away for a couple minutes when we come back, amy, and i’ll keep talking about your your multi-channel plan and what should be in it, including the goals and the messages in the hook that we’re talking about. Stay with me. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked, and they are levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising duitz just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio dahna. Welcome back. I’ve got more live listener love asia so well represented inchon, china sold. I’m sorry. Inchon, korea in john career where the airport is, everybody knows that. Inchon, korea, seoul, korea welcome. Manolo haserot food out. China shanghai, china taipei, taiwan ni hao. Amy, did you know all these languages? No, i have been to korea, but i don’t remember much more than hello. Were you at the airport in inchon? No, you don’t know. You went to see flora. Different airport. I i flew into seoul and then hopped over. Teo, you know we’re other places. Okay, um, the these these little hooks you you have some ideas about matches the hook in as part of your your message plan might be that you have a campaign match which could be which could be motivating to people to give. I thought you meant matches like to ignite striking matches. Right, that’s. Why? I could see the look on your face. Keep talking until you come back till it’s. In my reality, we need to show some reality. Um, yes, matches are a great way. As you know, in a fund-raising like retirement today campaign. Especially when you know that money is already guaranteed you don’t necessarily have to just recruit a matching sponsor, you could say, well, the sponsors giving us ten thousand dollars anyway, let’s give this sponsor more visibility, give them more value as a sponsor, but also leverage that to get more individual donations. So saying, you know, this sponsor is goingto give for every one of your dollars, and we want to get up to ten thousand just like, you know, they will match or to say, you know, every time you do this action, they will donate so that way you can, you know, maybe you don’t necessarily have a fundraising campaign that’s pure fund-raising but you want people thio maybe donate, you have this sponsor that’s going to donate the bulk of the funds, but you really want to get some behavior change in your community. So the diabetes hands foundation did a great campaign what’s the actual fall diabetes hands foundation and you know, they’re they’re focused on people with diabetes and really making behavioral change so that they have healthier lives and and are healthier people. So they had a campaign where there was a matching sponsor, so they were going to donate every time people exercise for thirty minutes and then took did their test so that they were being able to see from their own results that when they took a test than exercise for thirty minutes and then took another test, how much better their results were blood a lecture on and then you report that. So so go onto the website or goto instagram and share a photo of view exercising and to prove that exercising for thirty minutes doesn’t mean you drive all the way to the gym. You change your clothes, you know, you do the thing, whatever it could just mean taking your dog for a walk that’s twice as long as normal. So you actually get to thirty minutes instead of maybe, you know, ten or fifteen around the block and realizing you don’t have to go out of your way to be exercising every day and still see those positive results in yourself. So every time you posted that you did the testing and you exercise into the test again, then the sponsor was going to donate. So of course you have all these people that for one month no. Every time i do this thing that i should do anywhere, you know, they’re going to donate money and then because you’ve done it for an entire month, and even if you only did it once a week, that was already for five times that you’ve taken this positive action and seeing how easy it is, and you’re that much more likely to continue that behavior outstanding. I love how it’s so closely tied to exactly what they’re what they’re mission exactly, exactly improvement of health, of people with diabetes. Exactly. So now, if we have these messages now, we need to identify who they’re going to go out, too and where where they’re gonna go out? What? Which way said you and i are always saying, you want to go to people where they are exactly, but it’s also not the same message, every single place i mean, we have all experienced those campaigns where an organization sends you an email and then post on facebook like the exact same two paragraphs that they just sent you in an email, and then you don’t hear from them for the entire month, and they’re just waiting for the response to come in, so recognizing that you’re going to have some consistent messages throughout the campaign, like we talked about with the campaign communications calendar, but also that they’re going to be slightly different and nuance. So you may see on facebook people not really catching the campaign, not really engaging, and yet you see people on twitter going crazy and sharing that information, so you’re going to have to address the facebook community, maybe with less information about the campaign, maybe that community is just saying we’re not really interested, so don’t be posting every single day, but otherwise they’re definitely going to tune out, whereas you could start engaging twitter more because people are really responding there. So it’s it’s also recognizing where to pull back and not just okay? Well, we’re going to send the ask everywhere another channel that you and i haven’t talked about it, we just have about a minute left. So is mobile yet for people who have given you permission, yeah, say little about mobile mobile is great for engaging people, especially in the middle of the campaign where you could send attacks that says, hey reminder, tomorrow is going to be the last day. So today, when you get home, you should donate or even include in the text the link so that they could go from there, you know, text message on their smartphone over to the to the web and donate their so long as you’ve actually optimized your website. So from a phone, the for the forum doesn’t look like this weird gobbledygook. Amy sample ward she’s, co author of social change anytime everywhere i’m very grateful that she’s, our regular social media contributor thank you. I really enjoyed having you on. Do you have so much banter with others? I want to believe that i give you the hardest time. Okay, well, i want then i in that case, i want you to continue believing that the book is social change anytime, everywhere get the book. We just talked about a small part of it. We talked about the fund-raising portion, but it’s all about engagement and increasing advocacy. Moving the needle on engagement get this book it’s ah it’s on you’ll find it on amazon social change anytime everywhere amy’s blogger is amy sample ward, dot or ge? And on twitter she’s at amy rs ward amy thanks so much, thank you, real pleasure every time next week. Social change. Anytime, everywhere, part do you gotta get this book for pizza it’s. Really? Very, very good. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling dot com, a creative producer is claire miree off sam lee boots is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. Show social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein, thank you for that information, scotty with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and degree. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visit physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.