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Nonprofit Radio for August 3, 2018: How We Got Here, Revisited

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Robert Penna: How We Got Here, Revisited
In June 2016, Dr. Robert Penna shared an early, partial excerpt of the book he was working on. The book is published and he’s back to explain the unpredictable trajectory that led to today’s nonprofit sector. His book is “Braided Threads.”

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I break out into papel idema if i saw that you missed today’s show how we got here revisited in june twenty sixteen dr robert penna shared an early partial excerpt of the book he was working on. The book is published and he’s back to explain the un project unpredictable trajectory that led to today’s non-profit sector. His book is braided threads tony steak, too sunshine and bees we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant capital p wagner sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers whether cps dot com bye, tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine every. Glad welcome dr robert m penna bob back to the studio. He’s, the author of the new book braided threads ah, historical overview of the american non-profit sector he served five years as a consultant to charity navigator, and also as an outcomes consultant to the world scout bureau. Indeed, his last book was the non-profit outcomes toolbox, which we talked about on this very show he’s presented before non-profit organizations and associations across the u s and in canada, poland, kenya, saudi arabia and australia. Bob is a native of the bronx, new york, and he still sounds like it. Even though he lives in wilmington, north carolina. You’ll find him in his book at braided threads. Dot com welcome back, bob penna, thank you very much for a little closer, having thank you very much, ma’am ing my pleasure. Thank you. Get for coming to the studio. This braided threads overview overview let’s see what you know we’re i think i think you make the point, there’s just not enough of an appreciation among those of us in the nonprofit sector. Was it snow where we’re from, where we came from, where he came from? Well, i think a lack of knowledge about the east sector is probably throughout the population, but for those of us that work in it, most people never stop to think about where that’ll come from on dh like so much else around us, we americans are notorious for lack of a historical sense. Generally, we just kind of accept that, you know, okay, that mall was built for my convenience right before i was born, forgetting about what was there before being a former got in when they was wanting the same thing with sector people just accept it for what it is today, and you’d only don’t know the real size of the really dramatic economic impact, and i thought that that story ought to be told it actually started a zit. What i thought was a chapter in another work, and it got a cz bigas a book and it was to me a fascinating, fascinating story what’s the thread that you think is most important resiliently through the history resiliency in other words, it has changed. The reason was called braided threads is because it is not one unbroken series of events that took place in sequential owner and all in one line is a metaphor really, for the history on dh the strength i thought both of the sector that there are all these different things that were happening, that when they were woven together, gave us what we have today s so that’s where the title came from. But if you had to pick one thing, i think it’s a story of resiliency is it’s a story of before it was a formal sectors such as it is today, it still wasn’t movement, it was it was a things that people were doing, and it ricocheted off of reacted too, but also impacted events for over two hundred years. You’re clear to point out that it’s not a history of non-profits no it’s, how the non-profit sector evolved because of discreet events in history. Well, that’s, why it’s called overviewing in other words, i didn’t start out with day one and try to give chronologically month by month, year by year. What i did was i looked at what i thought were the most impactful things that happened during or to the history of the sector, and those are things i wrote about now, um, i’m not sure we’re going to go strictly chronological way made the book isn’t actually strictly chronological. They’re places where i have to double back now. When you were on last time, we talked about elizabeth, importantly elizabeth the first. But i know martin luther piques your interest. I thought more pre-tax pre-tax essex. His shame. By about sixty years i particularly thought it was interesting, because if you look at the sector today is largely secular humanist not that there aren’t religious or religiously affiliated organizations in it, but it is not a religious sector. I mean, generally speaking, not that there aren’t religious organizations and affiliations, but it is a very humanistic secular. In some cases, you might sit liberal. I don’t know of movement. And yet it’s roots were distinctly religious. So how did that break happened? Why did that break happened? Where’d it personally, i trace it. Back to a martin luther in the reformation. So you’re how? Because up until then i mean again, and this is not to be focused on just one, you know, ethnicity or religious tradition. This is certainly not to leave anybody else out, but the truth of the matter is that europe was catholic ever since. You know, constantine made it the catholicism of christianity, the official religion of the empire on three thirty, eighty europe was catholic, and then comes along martin luther and he initiates along with few other people of the reformation. And his biggest point was that unlike where the catholic church that it was faith and good works that got you in heaven, martin luther with sola feed a faith alone, you split them and he said, you could do all the good works you want. They’re not going to get you into heaven faces, and he divided it at that point and that crack that infant dismal hairline crack got wider and wider and wider and wider people began to realise overtime. Maybe they never even articulated it but became a sense that there were certain things you do because they’re right not because it’s an extra two points to get into heaven. This tradition had not existed there. Two four and that’s. Why? I peg one of the first first steps towards what we have today in particularly united states with martin luther and now s o and then queen elizabeth. Queen elizabeth was important. Yes, for now. If listeners want to go back, you could go back. Teo. June twenty, sixteen show we talked for about a half an hour. Not all about queen elizabeth, but we talked to fair amount about her more than we’re going to today. But you could go toe twenty martignetti dot com search bob’s last name penna p e n n a. And that june twenty sixteen showed last time he was on. Well, well, appear to you. Okay. Place very quickly. Queen elizabeth, wait time. Okay. Queen elizabeth in sixty, no one issued something. It was called a statute of charitable uses and what she did, wass andi it’s not say this had never happened before, but she codified with the idea that things that were of civic and civil benefit could be appropriate targets of charitable givings, what’s things. Founding of funding of schools self-funding of scholars, the building of bridges, the building of causeways though ransoming of prisoners. All of these things were in this list. So what was she doing there? She was a further secularizing charity. But be she was putting into the charitable pot things that their two four had not been considered charity charity. But charity was always personal to help poor now, she’s moving far away from help the poor bridges, bridges, bridges, cause whillans and ransoming hostages. Or also putting together a sort of a charitable part for the dowry for port maidens. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There was things that today you might call it the social engineering or what? What not. But the point is, it was no longer the idea that charity always was always had to be about helping the poor. So first, martin luther breaks off the idea of these good deeds to having nothing to do with getting into heaven. And then she comes along sixty years later and says, on top of that charitable activity, things that are good for the community and not necessarily what was the thought of his personal charity putting the coin in the beggar’s hand beyond martin luther religion, the evolution of religion i think it has something important, tremendous, particularly united states. We’re probably going to hit religion a bunch of times, but give us an overview of why, why you say tremendous? Well, i would say two reasons first off, because of the impact of puritans, if you wouldn’t mind me mentioning another author, collinwood guards book american nations, he makes that what’s his name colin would guard okay, american nations in yur forward or your introductions in the introduction. Okay? And he makes the point that they were founding culture’s here in the united states, and one of these founding cultures he calls yankee dm basically the puritan culture. And the thing of it is that that had a tremendous impact because their world view they were the on ly one’s coming here amongst the settlers amongst the french, the spanish, the swedes, everyone else who came here, who came with this idea of creating a better society. We’ve all heard that turn the city on the hill. Yeah, john winthrop, in their mayflower compact, was writing this down and was saying that amongst the things we’re going to do is every person has to be responsible for every other person built into the dna of that colony and what it became eventually, in terms of one of the i was so dominant cultures of the united states, was this concept that we have a responsibility, a civic, civil union, responsibility for helping each other. We’re going come backto winthrop, one of the new england puritans, right? We’re gonna take a break, okay? Pursuant they did a round up for you and included a video they’re paper is pursuing e-giving outlook. We took the latest fund-raising reports and boiled them down to what you need to know a round up the takeaways. Plus they have ah, webinar which is archived. You can get both the content paper and the webinar of naturally you know where they are. They’re on the listener landing page. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p for ah, please. And i guess pursuant also. Now back to how we got here. Revisited revisited. Eso let’s. Jump ahead. We may come back. Like i said, i may not chronological but you mentioned winthrop, new england puritan new england puritans were different than in terms of their there. The concept of charity then the southern it was also okay. The pioneer was also had a lot to do with was the way they set their society of if you think of the south, the first off there was the tidewater southie, maryland, virginia, northern north carolina. That was one society. But then there was what we came to know for better il as the south, eventually the confederacy it’s that will start in south carroll. It was a plantation. Both of these were actually plantation societies, and these plantations were largely self sufficient. So amongst the things they didn’t do, they didn’t worry about having a public school. It was the rich to care of their own children. They had tutors, or perhaps they sent the children away someplace, but they didn’t worry about public schools or didn’t matter, and the poor didn’t matter need education neither white nor black. It didn’t matter. So all the things that we take now as thinking their earmarks of society, their marks of civilization, they didn’t exist down there. Conversely, the first things you did in new england was you where’s, the village green. The church is going to be at one end congregations of course, the school’s going to be the other end. Everybody supported it through their taxes. So right there you have a division. This then later was reflected in terms of things like the pieces of civil society that you and i would consider to be a charitable efforts. They didn’t exist in the south since religion is a thread. That, yes, it’s very important. The congregationalists. In that time, they were the they were the state and the state religion in massachusetts. Just a massachusetts in massachusetts. Rhode island, connecticut. I’ve really askew for went for the south. It became the anglicans. In fact, the anglicans were minority in massachusetts. And what what became a pro? You know what? You don’t see a pilgrim church or a puritan church anymore. They became the congregationalists which were supported by taxes, taxes, taxes, the older. So i mean it’s a complete you know, this is obviously all pre revolution pre cut free constitution, but right in that in that day, we had state religions. Yes, yes. In every every, every colony, some of the northern state, every common. Okay, could not, you know, including eventually. You know, as things got more settled. Down south, the anglicans, the angle of the church of england was the state church. So for example, in virginia had to d institutionalized the anglican church so taxes wouldn’t go to it anymore. But it did have this thread tony of of how religion impacted it. It goes to his whole story, because when the minister is no longer part of the government, so to speak they had to find a new role. You had other sects that came along after the second great awakening amongst them, the baptists, the methodist, they were incredibly influential because they had they would have a little formal theology that others had it was that’s why you would hear a baptist preacher referred to his brother parsons or something, because they weren’t ordained ministers in many cases, and because of that lack of formality number one they could they didn’t church necessarily they get preach under a tree. But secondly, they also had a much more accessible kind of idea the way they approached it. And a lot of what we see today came from specifically the baptist evangelicals and the method like art. What about some of these traditions? That well, for example. The first first nationwide survived it. The first nationwide charities you want call were bible in tract associations, and they were all run by, funded by and pushed by these southern of evangelicals, methodists and baptists. And that became, like the first nationwide charities, the precursors of all the big ones. You know, today they were the first ones who are, like coast to coast. What else is there another tradition that you can? I think i think another tradition i would connect is ah, the activism of many, many groups. So for example, going back to the abolition of slavery, which, of course, started of all places in boston. Boston was the home of the abolitionist movement, and a lot of the people of there were religiously affiliated. But it is also true that during reconstruction and wanting a lot of the quote, charitable work that was done down there amongst the freedman, that much the freed slaves, etcetera, was done by northern methodist and northern baptists. So this this threat duitz involvement. But they weren’t doing it necessarily for the same reasons that going back to, you know, the fourteen hundreds the catholic slash christians were giving money to the poor that was trying to buy their way in heaven, it slowly, completely different. This was this was a our contribution to society. Exactly it was, it was like a second in the nation beyond was a secular act being done by people who for who belong to, ah, a particular denomination, in this case, it’s. Interesting to see the degree of do get things back, you know, go back to the anti war movement during the sixties, how many of those people marching there were protestant ministers? Many of the many of them were methodists, and they’re baptised. This strain never went away. What was, i’m jumping way ahead. Now we’ll come back to the constitution and separation churches, they but ancient greek, greece, rome, egypt what was what was the conception of charity that well, egypt is a vary by empire. Generally speaking, i mean, even in egypt there are their hyre hyre koegler fix have been found and has been translated that roughly say that you know your place in the afterlife, but depending on how you treated people people in this life, so you might say there was that kind of charity in greece in rome, charity was much more what queen elizabeth did. In other words, the idea was particularly in rome, if you want to get ahead and you want to be noticed. So let’s say you’re in the army and you want to move into politics. You were high up in the army, you would spend stuff, you would spend money on things that the public could enjoy, like you would build a public bath. Or perhaps you i would pay for a temple to athena or some small thing of this nature. But the idea was the charity in those days did the poor didn’t count to the poor didn’t exist on anybody’s radar screen. You had totally different perspective of human nature, human. Value. And it was for your own. It was very good for your own good. Everyone over here, right. Career. So writer’s career development. But the whole idea was to just i could spend four hundred bucks. Goto unconference then i would have had to build a temple to athena. Or you could today you could make a big donation to a hospital and put a plaque on the wall with your name. This is twenty martignetti wink. Yeah, i’d rather build a temple, but okay. That’s. Interesting. All right. Thank you. So so let’s go. All right. So now we have our constitution, our bill of rights, things first amendment geever obviously religion. No, no state religion and and separation of church and state. And so how did these factor into these factored in three different ways on the one part of those? The first amendment is the right of assembly, which the british kept an eye on when they were when they were in charge. Well, now you could formally have. You could have the group meetings you could organize again to worry about. Perhaps the king’s soldiers would come and say, break this up while you six. People was gathering here. One of the things that people did was they formed organisations do toqueville. I wrote back in eighteen thirty something when he wrote his famous his famous review of a matter of america based upon his tour that americans were already organizing for virtually everything you name the thought, music, culture of politics, something that they thought of americans were organizing. He hasn’t has a comment that says where in england you will find a a ah a personal great wealth for prominence heading up an effort will where in france you will find the government doing that in america you virtually always find it being done by a citizen’s organization interested. So this could be a total was here, and with the early twenties, you know, first twenty years or so of american independence. I mean, i believe he wrote democracy in america somewhere around eighteen thirty four and these were already his reflections by eighteen twenty the new england area already had over two thousand of these citizen voluntary organisations they were the precursors of today’s non-cash lorts yeah. And how were they structured? What do we know about their organ? It was structured. Like they were structured, sort of, as you know, an association they had by-laws they had officers what they didn’t have was either illegal corporate identity, nor did they have any sort of physical power because the laws that created what we call today a corporation, yeah didn’t exist back then. All right, so we’re doing, like, early to mid eighteen hundreds, are they? Are they doing their own independent fund-raising yes, they were well, they were doing the way calling us, and there were no bodies description that would call it a subscription to put out a subscription players subscription request. Andi, it was today’s. Fund-raising but they called it a subscription, but the key things in those days were threefold number one, they weren’t incorporated, so they didn’t have a legal standing identity, such as people don’t like about citizens united that whole idea that it didn’t exist. Secondly, they did not have any separate fiscal ability to buy to sell to they didn’t. And the third thing was that the officers or whoever was there, the officers were the identity. So if mrs smith or jones quit and or died very often, the operation would fall apart. Because there’s, no way to keep it going, it was very, very crucial for them to eventually get this right to teo. Incorporate. And one of the most key points about this was that they eventually incorporated under the state laws the laws of their home states. Now, who then control them did the state legislature because it charted them or allow them to incorporate control them? Or were they independent? And there was a crucial of a crucial of court case involving dartmouth university, where by the courts found that even if public money went to these entities and even if in fact he’s public entities these entities were incorporated under state law, legislature couldn’t touch. The legislature could not give the money, but the legislature could not tell them in this case, specifically dartmouth university. What to do that independence was crucial because it allowed these organizations to in many, many, many cases, proceed government in various efforts, whether it was schools for the children of freed former slaves, whether it was schools for today, you’ve called a handicap, the death, the blind they would very often create certainly would call them asylums. Today, in my column, orphanages. For children. And there was one in new york city that was specifically for the, shall we say. Children of prostitutes who might’ve been cold bastards back then or what we call illegitimate nobody. Where did these kids go? What did you do with them? And there were there was a privately funded asylum was created just for those people. Those children for the poor as well, but very old housing as well. Arms houses. They yes, very vory, largely funded by these private entities, but very often, particularly in their city near city under mayor de witt clinton high school androids clinton in the bronx. Yeah, right. Lincoln high. He became he was governor at one point. He was not only when he was mayor. He was also head of one of the largest charitable efforts in the city and was even back then. We’re talking early immigrants. They’re on guessing here, trying to remember eighteen twenty something like that. I don’t remember the exact years of his term of office, but the city was already paying what today would call non-profit to run that run the schools for the poor. So in new york state, particularly this tradition of public money going to a not what we today would call a non-profit to provide a legislatively desirable and socially desirable. And think about it. Tony, this is two thousand eighteen year almost two hundred years later, we’re still doing the same thing. Yeah, yeah, i love that around this period, let’s. Take the mid eighteen hundreds of what’s happening in the rest of the country way riese laid our charitable act. Well, slavery and civil war are percolating. And a tremendous number of of effort’s private government effort, a rather private citizen efforts. We’re trying to have a slave trade stopped because constitution originally said that the government could not do anything even in the slave trade, not slavery, but the trade for twenty years. So this effort was going on for a long time and was all be done by citizens in ninety nine percent of up north. Ah, a lot of them either spurred by or inspired by the culture of yankee dome, which was spreading across the country at that point. I mean, think about through from the mohawk valley to the ohio valley way spread from east west. And this culture came with us and the number of people who felt that this was a, uh, scar on our national character increased. And i mean, you’ve heard, you know, the missouri compromise bleeding kansas. We all know what? Well, the things that led up to the civil war, but what was while that was going on, there was this tremendous effort to, among other things, abolish slavery, but at the same time, penal reform. Ah, reform of t end was biggest show in new york. Hamilton, right? Hamilton and burr dueling outlaw dooling also thes air efforts by the various office or he’s working it by these writings organizations. Now, the term non-profit didn’t come along until nineteen. Fifty. Okay, yeah, we’re gonna get well the right to tax exemption. Ok, but by these are a penal reform. What can you think of other examples? What they were doing around this time? Well, was very, very interesting amongst the subscription today we have you know, this there’s everybody’s familiar with the term five a one c three. Well, the three denotes one level of five o one. See, they’re actually twenty nine of them. Well, one of them one of the earliest was what was called mutual society. Sort of mutual aid or mutual. Today there are mutual insurance companies which are non-profit they started back then the ideas you would again have a subscription and if a fire hit your house, this would pay money to you to get you back on your feet. This was another month non-profit effort that didn’t exist, benjamin, for every year where i guess i remember benjamin franklin, but every year i get my subscribers check from yusa, right? A mutual mutual benefit insurance conference company and now and bank, right, ben franklin. Ben franklin is credited with founding amongst the first off non-profit things in united states that volunteer fire court in philadelphia, one of the first libraries, the junior society, these were all today you’d call them non-profit ever efforts that he founded in philadelphia before the revolution. So again, this was but, interestingly enough, not down south, yeah, not down self. Once you started to get to his around the north carolina border, you didn’t see them because of the plantation economy because of the culture, but didn’t have a specific there wasn’t a civic civic sense. We have a community center. It was this my plantation, right? We take care of everything here. This is why two of the most revolution of things that happened down there was thomas jefferson’s, founding of the university of virginia north carolina’s found in one of the first state universities in the country because that was unheard of down there. It was just unheard of. So all of these efforts, as they say, we’re primarily northern. We have about a minute before the break the tax exemption. I feel like this is a good time. When did that? When did that attacks its first tax exemption started way, way, way back. Because you have to ask about which taxes so it’s probably gonna be more than wasn’t religion okay? Wasn’t religion, the religion first exemption religion and then also schools and things, things, things of that nature. So go back to them. Yeah, right. It broadened. But i started with okay, so we tease it together and always do. Thank you very much. Always a tease and i need to take a break. Weinger cps. He coached to you heard him on last. Week’s show the four hundredth very good guy. Check out the firm, then talk to him. Why? I g eat. Of course. No pressure. Tell him what you need that he’ll tell. You, whether weinger cps, can help you, of course. And if they can, then you know that help will extend beyond the numbers. Do the research talk tio get started at wagner cpas dot com. Now time for tony steak, too, who brings a sunshine to your mission? I’m urging you dive deep and think hard about who in your organ is critical to your mission. The worker bees, the hero worker bees often not seen tell their stories. Let’s. Start telling the behind the scenes stories, usual your digital storytelling capacity, and share this critical work with people who don’t see it. Because these air, not too forward facing people in your organization, your donors, you’re bored, you’re volunteers, even maybe even you know, if you’re big enough, maybe even employees. It’s, you know, this is the inside baseball, which is ironic, but that’s, as far as i could go with a sports metaphor. But i’ve heard of this thing it’s it’s called baseball and has touchdowns so people love this stuff. People who are outside it may be typical an ordinary to you but it’s not to people who don’t live it like you do every day. There’s more on my video at tony martignetti dot com we got to do the live love and were exploding west covina, california nan, you at new york pen sock in new jersey, rehoboth beach, delaware. Oh, i was in. I was in. Bethany had a very nice week. Very close to rehoboth. Live love, live love, delaware, new jersey. We got more in new york, but manual and california, tampa, florida west, long beach, new jersey looking new jersey exploding. Nan you at new york. Salt lake city, utah, new york, new york, multiple brooklyn, new york is here. New bern, north carolina is here. Live love to each of you, each of you on going abroad. Look, there’s! A whole page of going abroad. My god, it’s! Unbelievable! Manchester a sincere own paraguay ottawa. Tashkent, uzbekistan. Munich, germany. Iran, mexico city, mexico, santa catarina two new in guatemala, sudan we have a listener in sudan. We’ll show for the center in pakistan, so you know asia, oh, my goodness, live love, teo each of our live listeners love goes out thank you so much, and the podcast pleasantries to our over thirteen thousand. Now i’m pretty comfortable saying thirteen thousand, you know, sometimes some shows don’t quite reach that threshold, but enough have that i’m declaring it so podcast pleasantry store over thirteen thousand listeners you may be you may you may be listening six hours in a row. I don’t know, however you bunch them up pleasantries to you, thanks for being with us and the affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country, like claire meyerhoff said last week, and as you’ve heard me say, terrestrial radio is going nowhere. It may not be blowing up like digital, but it will always be with us, so the affections go out to our am and fm listeners and stations across the country. Bob pen is with me. His new book is braided threads a historical overview of the american non-profit sector just get the book because, you know, we can’t do it justice. Of course, you’re interested in how our sector, our community evolved to what it is. Now get the book, you know, we’re hitting some threads, some braided threads, if you will, but you want the full story, you know, even, you know, bob mentioned something like oh, yeah, the dartmouth case, you know, i can’t remember it all just by the thing for pizza. All right, where were we see now i’ve ranted about bees and sunshine and all this live love, where were we? Well, and be me. Now tell me what you also screwed up the whole thing about how about your baseball? But that’s, another thing? Well, you have baseball doesn’t have touchdowns anyway, this donorsearch we’re talking about sex, we’re talking about taxes and tax exemption on that’s what you would ask about that. Thank you. So it started. Religion was the first one. Well, what period are we talking about now? We’re going going back to probably the sixteen hundreds of knows the point of matter-ness what taxes? Alright, what tax? Federal government levied very, very few texas before. That the state’s levy not that many taxes most taxes were on property and very early on churches were exempted from paying those taxes. Now it wasn’t just the church building. It also became the the parsonage where the minister lived. Then if there was a section of the building library, perhaps, then schools obviously we’re not text be they private or be the public clearly in public government is going to tax itself so public institutions like public school would never you were never text, but the idea was that it is the exemption list grew bigger and bigger new york state was obviously this was going on in all states, i happen to have a quite an extensive county in the book of how the new york state list just kept getting broader and broader and broader and broader. At one point, it was interesting because the law was changed to allow organisations that included in their charter or their mission. The enhancement of the minds of young people are something that’s. How the why, god and because the y had tried to get a tax exemption had gone to court, they’ve been turned down, they had to pay the tax bill, but everybody thought, you know why should be enough in this. So why is very interesting to er in the world wars? Well, that’s right in the book, right? That they were also involved. Yeah, this is the book. I don’t know, but what i’m saying is that the y was not really was not mentioned or organizations like yeah, why now you mention new york state? Yes, i love this one thing i want to read for this from seventeen, ninety nine new york state. You you cite new york state as sort of representative represent what was happening around them, what they’re worth, barry issues, but there’s very representative, this is an act for the assessment and collection of taxes new york state seventeen ninety nine excerpt. I won’t be the whole thing, of course, no house or land belonging to any church or place of public worship or any personal property belonging to any ordained minister of the gospel, nor any college or incorporated academy, nor any schoolhouse, courthouse, jail, arms house or property belonging to any incorporated library shall be taxed by virtue of this act, right? And that that was just kept going, as i said at one point, they amend it to include i figure the specific wording was something about the betterment of the minds of young men and women, because there was the y m c a, and the y w, c young, you know, young man’s and young ones christian association. So the law was changed. And basically what the courts said was that the’s operations were doing good. There were doing good things, and with beneficial to society and therefore society it was in society’s interest, but also as just the smart thing to do. We are going to do our bit by supporting them through the extent that we do so bye, alleviating them from the tax burden they were still not call non-profits because that concept him way later, but these organizations thes voluntary or for a long time was called the voluntary sector. The’s oh, yes, that was the name of these organizations increasingly became tax free. What we know today as thie people call them non-profits i’ll do this relatively quickly. One of the last revenue acts of the eighteen hundreds included this idea that these kinds of organizations could be should be exempted from federal taxes that particular revenue actors found unconstitutional. However, when things started to fall into place and you remember it was thie sixteenth amendment that made the income tax legal in the united states when that happened, the recognition that these organizations should be exempt was codified, and it had to be three things. Number one, it had to be incorporated as a non-profit what does that mean? It doesn’t mean they can’t make a profit that can make money know what it means. Is that what any excess extra it has to go back in? Well, it has to go back. And they can. This were contemporaneous with the sixteenth amendment. It was well shortly following them. But what is it? Non-profit means that rather mean doesn’t mean it can’t make money. No, that doesn’t that’s not what i mean what it means. They can’t take that profit and distributed to partners distributed to stockholders. Distribute it has to go back into the pot. That’s number one. The second thing is that no one of its activities can make money for any of the officers. Right? And the third, the third idea. Oh, is that the well, roll sunday, the ideas non-profit none distribute torrey and doing some sort of civic good and so very often was charitable and there was a charitable, educational and the list got, you know, bigger now fairly dilemmas in erry i like that word helium really, really lousy grayce let me share that’s what the reason? Every believe believe that it’s, but maybe you’re right a check, maybe. Alright, remember, i come from the bronx, so i’m different pronunciation. Um, well, you were wrong about you around baseball to sew our from president tax abilities. Alt-right president taxco comes from nineteen fifty four that was the first place where they laid out what we have today, this five oh, one c category and where the general exemption from originally, the idea was that if these organizations made money, they didn’t have to pay a corporate income tax on it. Then it became not legally, but in terms of practice that they are basically free from almost all taxes other than things like excise taxes or taxes on gasoline or something that you pay is part of a bill, which is why the local men’s association will go to a restaurant. And then have the banquet, and they give the the the owner hears my tax free by tax free number, and they won’t have to pay sales tax on the restaurant. Yeah. Okay. So that’s where all that came from, but it was in terms of its codification. Although the roots go back to the sixteen hundreds, codification goes back to nineteen. Fifty four. Okay. Is that the sixteenth amendment was at the sixteenth amendment? Was nineteen. Thirteen that’s? What? Allowed the ink allowed, permitted in income to federal income tax. Right. Okay. Okay. Let’s, uh, were world war i? We saw an expansion. Uh, yes, yes. What? Why? Why? Because because we really well, but because there was no functional way for the government to step in. One of the more fascinating things about it was that the human we’ve been told by the why? The why was the first organization two do what you think in terms like the red cross? You know, pow pow camps. You’re checking on status bringing, you know, president’s part. Nobody did that government sure affected neither the union or the confederate government. It was the why the y m c a that first started this. Bring this service to both sides to the confederates and northern. So they were they were in buy-in confederate pow camps ministering, so to speak, to union prisoners and vice versa. You say that the white was the first large scale service corps. Really? You could say that you you you can’t say that the other s o comes along world will once there was a knee for this but nobody else to do it. Okay, we gotta take a break. Take a break. Tell us you say you need more revenue. Have i heard rumors to that effect? Start your campaign. Talk to the businesses near you and those that are supporting you. Ask if those business people will consider switching their credit card processing to tell us. Explain to them that you will earn fifty percent of the fees that tell us gets you get half that’s the long stream of passive recurring revenue for your non-profit you’re voluntary organisation, check out the video at tony dahna slash tony tello’s now back to bob penna the way the y y m c a initially or was and why it was there right now while there’s two there’s one. I am cia, young men’s, christian association and the young women’s which came first. William. Okay, i think so. First, large scale service corps and well, what happened was this. You know, there was when world war one started and there was a need when the americans got involved, when there was a need to again bring services to this army that was being raised, whether it was, you know, outside of fort dix or whether it was, you know, eventually when the ghetto got, of course, the the other side across the pond. Allied expeditionary forces, right? American expeditionary. The whole idea was somebody had to do the same sort of thing. And why was the first one to step in a red cross, eventually join the salvation army, eventually joined. But all of this was being done privately. Meantime, both prior to america’s entry into the war and after it was a tremendous amount of refugee. If you will victims victims, relief. I mean, you know, war is terrible. Whatever ward is and there’s always collateral damage, the people who were displaced, the homes of the destroyed well during war governments don’t stop to worry. About taking care of that, they move on, they want it, they have a war to try to win. So who took care of those people? The refugee problem was tremendous. Belgium became one of the worst sites of it because when the germans invaded belgium, the allies said, well, you have to feed the belgians because most of the belgians of food came from outside. German said, no, we’re not going to be bother doing that were, you know, feeding our trip. You want to give them food, you give them food? Well, it was a relief effort that began in the united states that started working to bring food to belgium. But it was not government. It was all private. It was all voluntary was a what you today with called non-profit before our eyes. Actual pictures, one of the few pictures that are in the book before the war, before the u s got involved in the war when we’re supposed to be officially neutral. Yes, there were organizations raising money for the poor and the suffering and the widows in belgium and france. And but there were also organizations doing the same thing directing money to the german empire, the austria hungarian empire on turkey because we were officially neutral. So there are actually a couple of pictures in the book. I wouldn’t have shaved more pictures, by the way. Well, i like, well, i’m sorry next-gen next book, more pictures, but the whole idea was this entire effort was being done privately after the war massive relief effort run by herbert hoover, most of it not all of it. At that point, the u s government was committing money, but a great deal of it, you know? I don’t know proportion sixty percent maybe was well private today’s uso was formed by a collection of a bunch of the collaboration of a bunch of the organization’s yesterday the y m y w c a regular yeah, that’s, today’s, united service organised, right? Right. And that’s where that it was a coalition that was found was one with first ever like that on the first ever efforts. I mean, there are all sorts of things that happened back then that we we today, for example, you’ve heard of united way everybody knows united way, you know, we’re united what came from i don’t community chest community. Chest and you know it today. Most people know community chess is a sort of a space in the car on the reporter community chest wass local fund-raising specifically for disaster, personal tragedy, private relief. So if you lost your job or the factory burned down and five people lost, the job community chest was was was the entity in each individual community that would they would go to for relief? I mean, maybe if they belong to a particular denomination in the church might help him out as well, you know, temple or, you know, there’s a lot of that. I mean both and there’s a whole section in there on both jewish and catholic specific ah, contributions to what we know today as the american non-profit sector and that that’s interesting reading on on its own. But this isn’t to say the churches were involved, but every community there was no public relief. There was no public welfare. And so if dad died or fell off the roof and broke his leg and couldn’t work, there was no unemployment insurance. It was the worker’s comp people. Very often they went to community chest. What wound up happening was one of the transformative events was, we’ll make coal cooperative fund-raising if everybody fund-raising for fund-raising fund-raising whatever the look, the past tense of that is by themselves, you want with competing appeals and the banging into each other. Well, it actually started to believe it was a cleveland was one of the first ones i know there was one in denver, there was one in detroit, it was one i believe was cleveland. Was this around the is this also the hoover administration non-profits complain where we’re basically testified before congress were basically running over each stepping over each other, trying to trying to help? Oh, yeah, we’ll also show it was at the great depression or no, yes, yes, i know now that was baby. What you’re talking about was world war two upleaf stepping on each other in front of me. All right, that was world war to know what happened was when the when the depression hit sort of the thought was that this community chest step up in community chest tried they would have instead of one annual drive, they’re having to annual drives, they try three, but the problem is we all know was much bigger than anybody could have completed for scene and their efforts were just not up to the fact that the entire economy crashed, which is why government had to get in that well, it was obviously fdr, fdr important appointed harry hopkins to run the relief effort. Harry hopkins thought that it really should be local government that was doing this local governments setting off for the side. They’re very happy not to be involved. So when harry hopkins did was he said, ok, we’re gonna do this and it’s gonna be federal money, but none of the money can go to what today would call non-profits they got completely cut out. That was not right. That was not to punish that i’m no, that was to encourage that was the force, the state’s unwilling states and that had not taken on public welfare right to do it or we do it give the money to the state, but we federal money won’t go to thes community chest exactly, right? They’re trying to force the hand and unwilling recalcitrant states and localities and localities. But but, yes, that’s and that was hopkins idea. Of course. Now what did the non-profits do i mean, this kind of left them out in the cold? Now, you also have to realize that at this point we were talking about community chest, but this was one. This is not to say that the arts efforts weren’t going on, and people were founding zoos and botanical gardens, and a lot of this was originally founded by private garden clubs or a zoological society, but the nation was in crisis and relief. I was always from the charitable sector, which is why i was cold, and now they couldn’t do what anymore krauz was too big a job and be the federal money couldn’t go to them, have you? You have no soul, we invent themselves. I mean, i said us made early on what was the theme? I keep seeing resiliency and one of the things that they’re one of the earliest tests of this resiliency was after the depression because basically the feds said you can’t have anyone for you no more money for you, yeah, yeah, so say little about the jewish contribution. Tio what we know, i think this is all really fascinating. There’s a book believe guys named wrote it. Was cahill cal in-kind how taylor count it’s called the gifts of the jews the gift of the jews book is probably twenty years old, this point, but he makes the point that one of the biggest contributions that the jewish culture the jewish religion made to us here in the united states was, in fact cultural, cultural. It had to do with how human beings reviewed when the jewish immigration here started and watch. Think about where these people come from. They were either, you know, they were persecuted in czarist russia. They were persecuted in poland, which was part of czarist russia. They were kicked out of spain. I mean, you know, a thousand years of this, they had an outsider perspective nobody else had, and they brought that here with them. And when they got involved in charity and they were the ones they were the biggest analyze of the black civil rights movement, because their idea that nobody should be an outsider was central to them. And they brought that, too, that you think about today’s non-profit space. We are concerned about the handicapped. We’re concerned about all sorts of groups that you might call marginalizes. Semi marginalized and thiss was antithetical to the jewish world view. So to me, whereas a lot of these other charities were taken care of their own. So, for example, there was the irish working in such and such, but you had to be irish. The jew said, no, inclusive, inclusive. We’re gonna take our last break. Okay, text to give. Welcome them to non-profit radio by checking them out, please. Mobile donations made easy, it’s, simple, affordable, secure. If your donor’s consent a text that can make a donation, you get more revenue because it’s giving made easy text. Npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine and that will get you info on text to give and that’s also the way to claim your special listener offer npr, too, for for foreign. Nine, nine nine. We’ve got about six more minutes for how we got here. We visited. Excellent. Thank you. The jewish tradition. I just i cannot emphasize that enough, because i mean, truly today if you look at the whole core of the non-profit mission, it is inclusivity. And i personally feel that without the incredible jewish influence that particularly here in new york and new york became kind of like one of those centers of the non-profit war with still is i cannot emphasize enough how strongly i believe that that that this world view yeah, that thread truly, truly helped imprint of what we have today. You got to get the book because there’s some things were not going to be a lot of the great depression. Kennedy’s, new frontier. And then johnson, johnson as and jesus or against four war on poverty way have what? Three, four minutes? Five. Okay, well, i want to talk about the future too. Okay? Then i’ll do. So just do johnson. Johnson set us on the road that we’re on the war on poverty, right? Warren? Right? The great society war on poverty. We are today farther down that road and that road is been fancied up. There are, you know, they’re curbs where maybe it didn’t. Used to be curbs there’s, a newer pavement, nicer pavement and original, but it is the exact same road. What johnson did was, he said, we’re going to take federal money and we’re going to change poverty. We’re gonna eradicate whatever his goal was, but it wound up that it wasn’t the government that was doing it. It was government money going to community action agencies and two non-profits now we don’t time now to go to talk about what happened to non-profits during the fifties between world war two and way, just get the book and, well, i have the book. Oh, you mean elation gets into the thirteen thirteen thousand we’re joining this mission, i hope to god you have a copy, then that’s a different story, but the whole point was that it was hard to get for me to get one lbj lbj set us on the road that we’re on, we’re on now and my feet feeling, and maybe there are people in this sector would argue, you know, this is my theory is that basically things have not really changed in direction, they’ve changed in degree. Now the nonprofit sector is not just the partner of government there’s, it’s it’s dependent upon the government. I mean, look what happened to the sector during the depression. It wasn’t the individual stop giving individuals even during the worst of the great recession we’re giving. Corporal was down the corporate snot that big. It was government money. The sector today is very, very reliant on. So again, johnson set us on the road that run now, and we are just farther down it and very much deeper into it. I want to look, look, look forward. You cite generational change too, and technology change as our biggest lorts opportunity, opportunities and challenges. I think i think two of the two of the three biggest things because we end the book on what’s happening in the future. That’s the last of the west. Thirty. Twenty five percent of the book, i think that’s the three biggest things that are impacting the sector and sectors largely unaware of it is number one the growth we’re adding fifty thousand a year in nineteen, ninety, there were a couple of hundred thousand non-profits in united states today there was a startling chart in the book of the pictures that was the charge. You know i have a dream that my son dramatic rise now there’s over one point seven. Six million, actually, nobody as is less to solomon who’s, one of the sages of the of the of the sector says, but nobody really knows how many there are. And it’s because there’s no registration, there’s reporting different story so the growth thiss can’t just go on fifty thousand new ones a year, even given three to four percent you know, dwindling and going away talk about technology and second missions technology you talked before about making online donations easy that is changing the paradigm between donors and organizations such as we’ve never seen before. You and i are oven oven age when we still remember ah, march of dimes going door to door. All right, that is all the canisters canisters, but think about it now we’re making so easy for online or text, but we’re also making very easy to give uninformed donations because it’s impulse it’s on the second and right there in your finger, the third thing is the generational change we’re already seeing the statisticians and the demographic demographer has already seen a great great great change in terms of values and behavior, almost the millennials and us, but not just us also the generation right behind us. So these three things churning bart have the power to totally change the non-profit sector as we know it over the course of the next fifteen years and all i’m saying is we as a sector should be aware of these things and be prepared for what could happen and maybe try to steer the ship instead of just being a cork bobbing along where the tides and the winds take us where they want. Just get the book for god’s sake, bob pender braided threads a historical overview of the american non-profit sector you’ll find bob and his book at braided threads dot com thank you very much, bob. Thank you. Valuable book. Just it’s. Well, it’s it’s it’s, amazon is bond’s amglobal dot com that’s where i would send everybody there in-kind braided threads dot com all right, wrap it up. Well, you’re done. I’m done next week. Peter panepento returns with his co author for your media relations strategy. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony. Martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools, small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p wagner. See piela is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com bye, tell us credit card payment processing, your passive revenue stream, tony that m a slash tony tell us on by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr. To four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Bob and i were just talking about that. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz, is a line producer. Shows social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent now that you know your history, go out and be going. You’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving nothing. Cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative now, are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down? Hi, i’m nor in center of attention. Tune in every tuesday at line to ten p m eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Beyond potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c buy-in. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? 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Nonprofit Radio for June 24, 2016: How We Got Here & New Overtime Rules

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Robert Penna: How We Got Here

Features of today’s charitable community emerged from clear points in history. How did women come to outnumber men in the sector? Why is the northeast dominant? Dr. Robert Penna returns to reveal the formation of our modern charity complex. His book is “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox.”

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host our listener of the week is aubrey burghdoff, our she’s executive director of the california symphony, she tweeted, i love this episode! I listened a second time and took notes. She was talking about the march twenty fifth show this year on lead and matching gif ts and corporate matching gift she’s at aubrey. Why? Why that’s aubrey with two extra wise on the end thank you very much for loving non-profit radio aubrey, congratulations on being our listener of the week oh, i’m glad you’re with me i grow a gibbous if you backed me into the idea that you missed today’s show how we got here features of today’s charitable community emerged from clear points in history how did women come to outnumber men in the sector? Why is the northeast dominant? Dr robert penna returns to reveal the formation of our modern charity complex. His book is the non-profit outcomes, toolbox and new overtime rules. The u s department of labor has issued new rules for classifying which employees are eligible for overtime they’re effective. December first so you need to know what’s up, who’s got your back. Jean takagi are legal contributor and managing attorney of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo on tony’s take two fund-raising fundamentals round up. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com my pleasure to welcome dr robert penna back to the studio he’s, author of the book the non-profit outcomes toolbox first brought him to the non-profit radio studio in september two thousand eleven he’s been a consultant to charity navigator and has presented in canada, africa, the middle east, europe and australia. Nothing in the antarctic and oh, i see he grew up in the bronx, lives in wilmington, north carolina, and knows more about dc comics characters than an adult should admit you’ll find robert penna at outcomes toolbox. Dot com bob, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Pleasure. Thank you for hustle on your way to the studio today. The train was late. I understand, but you’re you’re not you’re not. You saved it non-profit outcomes. Toolbox. Last time you were here was five. Years ago, how’s the, uh, how’s the book doing it. Just come out when it’s been phenomenal. Yeah, it was that just released two thousand eleven. It was released in two thousand. Okay? Yes, it was sixty days before i was here. It’s it’s got me all over the world. The response has been incredible. Not antarctica, but not an article. I think the the penguins and the puffins and particular interest serious in the performance. But the good news is that word has been spreading that there’s nothing else like it out there for non-profits they want to learn howto tio be performance based on dh really start working on outcomes. And it’s got me all around the world. Places i never, ever thought i’d get to see. Saudi arabia and nairobi australia’s been phenomenal. Outstanding. So international organizations are interested in outcomes measurement as well out the united states actually is the leading non-profit sector in the world. Everybody hopes to see what we’re doing. Eso when non-profits started looking outcomes here non-profits in other parts of the world started looking as well. And so i got invitations and there i was. Excellent. Love it. Okay, i’m glad. He’s doing well, i’m i’m i’m even happier than you are. Not literally. The checks are pouring in. Finally, the first one. All right, the first one takes five years. Depends on how big your euro your advances. Jeff, work off the eye. I see. All right, but i finally did. Okay, i don’t want to get details about your personal finance is all right. Just get a a short subject. You know, we have to film. Remember, you have to be together twenty five minutes to fill twenty. We’re going to because we’re going to talk about the history of the charitable sector, which is a part of a new book, part of a new book that you’re working so and so exposes to what the new book is not out yet. Yeah, what’s that going to be about the new book is basically a donor’s guide. It really is basically what you should know about the sector every year we individual americans give billions of dollars. Last year was two hundred seventy eight billion dollars from us, and most of us know nothing about the sector. And so i am, depending upon the metaphor you choose, i’m either. Lifting the curtain or lifting the fig leaf and we all know what usually has been so all right. Ah, fig leaf, i, for that matter for all right. Okay, so when is that? You have a big fat advance that you’re working on now? Yeah, yeah, i’m working on a big fed events. I really can’t tell you because the book is i’m trying to do very, very thorough job. There’s an awful lot that we’re going to talk about today is just some of it today, when we talk about the history part, right, this is not it’s, not a history. Mode is not understanding. This is one chapter isn’t right, you know, one piece. Okay, so all right. So let’s, uh, still into it. Okay, let’s, go back, tio, old england. Oh thing. Which is where our charitable sector started with with queen elizabeth the first what was going on under her fig leaf? Oh, don’t do that to me! Latto charity, as we think of it, was, was vastly different back then. It was it was virtually all individual. But it was not really designed to help the poor. The old christian idea was that by the act of being charitable, the person who was being charitable got some sort of divine grace e-giving charity had nothing to do with ameliorating poverty or helping the poor. It was i’m doing this so i will get good graces. Most of the poor laws had to do with trying to corral and chase the poor from place to place to place. But they were also the divergence of opinion as to really what was charity. And so what elizabeth did was she did a there was an actor. Royal acted in sixty no one. The the charitable uses act and what she did in one fell swoop was she secularized charity. Because in addition to the usual type things poor, the needy, the infirm, the agent she now included as perfectly valid charitable uses things like building roads, building bridges, building causeways, supporting the troops. If you donated money to to to raising an army that was considered charity, the things that you might consider to be almost social engineering a fund for the marriage of poor maiden’s. Because in those days you needed a dowry. If you had no dari your chance of being married, we’re even lower. So this was a fund for the dowry of a poor maiden so they could get married. There was ah, charity was seen to be also thie encouragement and support of young learning artisans and artists and things of this nature. So what she did at that point was expand the concept of charity beyond the usual idea of helping an individual or helping individuals, and more towards what you and i would consider efforts of public benefit public good. And that strain has never left us. Okay. And also similar mints of social engineering. Yes. Helping see the women get married? Yes. You said you said moving the poor around moving the paralysis is moving the poor round. That is the poor laws we don’t talk about. That was that was not very nice. That was not there was rather know thiss was. This was in terms of helping young artisans helping argast supporting them, supporting young young academics. All of these. Were included in the list had never been thought of his charity before they’re they’re after yes, okay, as part of explains, it can just finish white today you can have the opera, you can have a bird sanctuary and you could have a battered women’s shelter all considered charities because going back to elizabeth, all of these sexual things became part of chuck, and now we have just a minute before break, we brought this concept over with us. Well, the puritans i shared i’m in italian, so i didn’t bring it over. We brought something else over, but, um, puritans brought these concepts with them. Yes, it is, yes, but they also brought some. They also had some very, very important individual ideas of their own. I’m not quite sure if you’re trying to go into it right now, but i could go over just over the top number one. It was every person’s responsibility to take care of his neighbor. That was your duty to god, and that was your duty to the king arika secondly, very, very important thing, the puritans, unlike anyone else who came to north america, had the sense that they could use the law to enforce changes in attitude and behavior so if we’re talking about moral standards and we’re not talking about that shot, not till we’re talking about ideas towards social behavior, their idea of a city on the hill, their idea of the new jerusalem, they were going to create a better society, and if you wanted to live there, you had a full flowing line one hundred percent we always see these pictures of them wearing dark clothes that said, all of this was enforced by law, we can get back to it after the broker. All right, well, we’re going to move on from the puritans, actually, because i want to start talking about some of our features of charity today we only have twenty five minutes and, uh, okay, so we’re going to look a tw. What? What characterizes charity today and how that how we got here? That’s what it’s all about let’s, stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. This is our two hundred ninety fifth show. The three hundredth show is coming up on july twenty ninth. That’s the sixth anniversary of non-profit radio july twenty ninth. Very special show for you with us. Okay, bob. So the so i want to look at some features of charity’s today. Like on this has relationship to the puritans the northeast. So is sort of the first explain. How is it that way characterized the northeast as being dominant in charity philanthropy? It’s, not the northeast is nominated ways going culture is what you have to go again. I hate to do this. You have to go back to pilgrim’s idea of creating a better society. The pilgrim’s. This was their fat. One of the founding ideas you and i chatted briefly before about the split between charity and philanthropy. Weight of these two split well, one of the things that happen is that when philanthropy started developing that that protestant strain of creating a better society informed what they were doing and that has never changed. Most people would think would agree today that in terms of its humanistic goals in terms of the kinds of things that embraces that, more or less, the non-profit sector truly has sort of a liberal caste or a liberal bent by no means to be political. But in terms of things that it embraces. Those all go back to creating that better society that started with the pilgrims and through the eighteen hundreds through the organized benevolence that they spread, this stuff was not down south dahna south at a totally different kind of culture. This all came from the north east. When you look at the non profit sector today you’re looking at the direct descendants of the of the organized beneficence off the northeast going back to the eighteen hundreds. Okay, and today we see that way see just concentrations of charities in the northeast. But you but you always did a cz early as eighteen. Twenty. There were over two thousand of these voluntary associations in doing a little, vastly outstripping the numbers. Any places? Yeah, americans have a have a penchant for tokyo breeding association doesn’t talk to us. You have a quote in the chapter from the total talks about that and he says anyplace. In in europe, will you see a great man at the head of some endeavor, or in france, the government in the united states? You will find an association and that the world that in eighteen thirty? Yeah, and the association’s became associations are non-profit non-profit we’ll talk about how we got there, through laws and recognition and etcetera. Okay, all right, what about women will be very interesting sixty percent of the employees in non-profits air women do i have that rough? If you pray it’s probably more than that, and several women, when they’re friends of mine, would point out that ah, shameful number of directors are actually women, particularly with not latto yeah, with larger number i mean that’s. The staffs are overwhelming when i when i speak in front of groups of very often, there’ll be a hundred people in the room and they’ll be like four males. Honestly, that’s normal where this start this actually was in the early decades of the eighteen, eighteen, twenty just again thinking about this society due to the social mores of the day, women were not allowed to do it in twenty there weren’t even voting well, they weren’t voting they weren’t working. Certainly the middle class and upper class when we’re not working, however, this was a victorian era that had this notion that women were more sensitive, that women had a more perceiving i was also something very, very important going on male world. And that was the beginning of what we call today. Contract theory. It changed. Changed working relationships. I created the world we think of in terms of dickens. What means? Contract theory. Contract theory was its. We write it down. I owe you nothing past what’s in the contract. And if i fire you, i don’t owe you anything. It changed working relationships throughout europe and it hit the united states, the northeast, particularly the east coast. Particularly in the very late seventeen hundreds. Early eighteen hundreds it began to change the relationships amongst people amongst neighbors amongst the merchants and the people with whom we do business. Life got very, very sharp, hard angled and different. Almost a cruel is supposed to have had been women. Women started to see in ways that men refused to recognise the downside off of this, you know, hyper capitalism on the crass commercial world every other evan who was close to them. But this was not. They started pushing for a cz earliest seventeen. Ninety five women were behind the idea of pushing for penal reform. I had a list here i think i could have looked at but every they were against war, they were getting against press gangs. They were against dueling there against inebriation. They were against the abandonment of children. One thing that was a big issue throughout the eighteen hundreds was women being, shall we say, would seduced and abandoned. There were numerous groups, but if you look back as early seventeen, ninety five was the first formal women’s association for social betterment. Again, i have the name somewhere. My notes here. Wait, we don’t even know so we don’t need the name. But the point is it goes back to seventeen, ninety five. Yeah. And by the early decades of the eighteen hundred eighteen ten, eighteen twenties, this movement was almost entirely driven by women of the association’s thes associate these associations that were geared toward social betterment. Now yes, there were associations. There were associations of fishermen there with grange, as they were. Those were not female dominated. But those warm or those worm or industry related those one male dominated because they had to do with the trades. Okay, trades right? Because the men were but doing use the work this think about abila first of abolition. Where was the capital of abila? Abolition? It was boston. It certainly wasn’t down south. And yes, there was a gentleman whose name escapes me. Who ran the paper. But most of his field troops. The shock troops were women. Abolition, suffrage, suffrage, temperature tendered. Yes. Take carrie nation. Yeah. Thes wall women driven and there’s. Many, many, many more. Particularly when it gets around the, uh, child welfare and abandoned women. Orphans, widows. Ah, help the prisoners. All right. Reform price. You mentioned a prostitute. Refund forms pressure not only help for prisoners, but penal reform, penal reform. They recognized the cruelty of the institution. Well, actually, you know, they thought the institutions are better than what preceded it, which included the pillory that stock in public whipping and branding. And so they thought the penitentiary is we’re better than that. And so they were pushing initially for jails rather than bilich stop whipping and brand. Okay, that should have his peanut that’s that is penal reform is compared to what had been okay. Yes, all right, i thought so. They didn’t. They didn’t move out of the prison system or no, they were trying to prove that they were trying to get to a person to person comes whipping, etcetera, whipping, branding, and all right, so it’s ours and feathers. So there was so it really emanated from the with women recognizing the softer side of of life actually know. And there were a diversion and performing over contract the capital prize, the emergent males perception that they had a softer side. They were very shrewd. They knew what they were doing. It was this was not they were soft, and they had these these flowery ideas that just happened to work. They knew exactly what they were doing. But the thing was that the male population stepped aside because it deferred to what it saw. Women’s keener insights in other words, they weren’t playing, that they might have been playing the gender card. But they did very, very, very intelligently. They got what they want. They had their male allies when it came to having people write checks deeply. Clinton for mayor of new york. He was the mayor of new york and the head of one of the biggest societies of social improvement societies in the city at the same time. But it was all being run by these with women, sisters and daughters of the ruling male elite and let’s. See, what they did was they used the ruling male lead to get money for the rest of the men had it? Yeah. Okay. See, i think that’s cool. I get hysterical. All right. Anything you want to say about women, how they emerged as dominant. Well as as the century jin is very, very interesting. Because dominant in numbers, i should say, i mean, there are yes. There are a good number of women, ceos, executive actors, but a very small proportion of of the one, point, one million charities. So what are led by women? What is very, very interesting is the way they kept running and having the kipping resurgent. There was a move towards the early twentieth century which would have replaced a lot of them with male managers who was thought to be much more scientific. But when the sector got basically got into trouble and ones saying that trump latto did anything wrong. But it suddenly found it’s ah it’s, ah, its raison de tre questioned not to mention its sources of funding. It was the women who came back and were able to answer the need when the sector moved to the middle class as its salvation. And this was after the war. This was an era when the non-profits hadn’t what we call non-profits today they were called that, then they really know had no idea what they were going to do it, a lot of them there weren’t that many of them, but they were starving. They were drawing upon the vine, and they didn’t know really what to do with themselves. And it was literally women who saved them by virtue of thinking in terms of things like family counseling and marriage campuses around. This is nineteen forty, nineteen late nineteen forties nineteen fifties. Okay? And we’re seeing so so i guess another another area that i want to cover is services to the middle class. Yes, and it it emerged around the new deal when new deal legislation sort of the new deal captured the poor away from the association, the new deal people think in terms of the new deal is a couple of things i think of the w p a they think of the ccc they think of high was being built in things like this, but they they didn’t offer a lot more because they weren’t not just laborers and construction people that were out of work. They were thinkers, they were, they were artists, there were musicians, and so under some of the new deal programs, an awful lot of these people were hired and they provided services they provided thing, for example, there was one course really interested me how to how to teach people to think critically, and so they were offering this ah, for free public expense. But what was very interesting is that when after the war, the the public, particularly the middle class, liked a lot of these services also think about it in the earlier days, you really couldn’t talk about marital problems that was very probably right, but you sure as heck couldn’t talk about sexual problems. You really couldn’t talk about having problems rear your young because in the earlier days it was but it’s supposed to be the male had a strong hand. Spare the rod, not the child, you know. Spare the rod, spoil the child, etcetera. It was only after the war that these things became started become things people could talk about. It was the salvation in many cases of a lot of these these non-profit agencies, because what they started doing was providing specifically these kinds of surfaces to the middle class. Interesting enough. One of the rationales was the middle class could pay for it, at least in part it didn’t have to all be free. You have to understand that a lot of the agencies that you think of now things like community chest, they really and truly number one wanted to get get away from relief. The experience of of the depression and the new deal when they’ve been pushed out of relief and forced to find other ways to survive. You had really gotten them to the point where they did not want to be back in the release in really space, which was really seen as a descendant of charity. They were much more comfortable in the benevolence, the philanthropy, the betterment of society kinds of kinds of efforts. And they said that on the brothers, all right, rather than charity. So we talked about that before the division between charity. We didn’t get into detail we’re going through, but this is where they were much more comfortable, and that led them directly in the path to be ready for when eventually came along. Great society. It’s such like that. Okay, now, is this the beginning of the divergence between charity and philanthropy? Now, at the beginning of the divergence is actually in the eighteen hundreds. Okay, what was the history of that? The history of that was life was we’re looking back, we think we have this picture of this very bucolic america, if you know, from the colonial era, most people don’t even realize all the things that happens. Say, from eighteen hundred eighteen forty we sort of jumped from george washington to the civil war, but an awful lot happening, like you’d be in the wilderness if you went to fill it beyond philadelphia. That was true, but it off. A lot of things was happening, and one of the things that was happening was that cities were growing new york city was growing exponentially. You had a lot of immigrant groups coming in you had but also think about the older areas of new england, massachusetts, et cetera. These have been farmed out that was there have a great soil to begin with. The ohio valley was opening. People were moving the tightness of the you know, we all have this kind of notion of ah, sturbridge village and the cute little yeah that existed at one point. But by the time eighteen hundred rolled around, ah, lot of that was changing. So that whole idea of direct community responsibility for charity was breaking down. Secondly, when you got to the cities, the city’s had anonymity and that alone attracted a lot of people. There was the structures that had created charity before, on allowed upon which charity had been based before. We’re breaking down tremendously. Number one, number two. The numbers were increasing. And the idea was that charity was a waste. It was a waste of time. Charity comes from the latin word careerist, which means tenderness, mercy and love. Philantech becomes from the greek, which means love of mankind as early as seventeen o four. It was recognized as a term meaning somebody who was interested in the public good in public works in public benefit. All right, they started looking not to help tony or bob because we had problems, but rather while the but problems that tony and bob facing exist nowhere when did this thinking this thinking started by eight by eighteen ten by eighteen. Twenty early very, very early. It was also seen as much more organized and much more scientific. All right, where is that? We can help? We can help the masses rather than one person at a time. They were we could get to the cause is exactly what they were looking to do. Was copy that. Go back to securing that center. I want to go back to the puritans, create a better society. Why do we have poverty? All right now their answer in many cases was very still to their answers. Was if only the pool without more like us. All right, that is. But that is true. Very helpful. No, it isn’t very helpful. But it was awful long for roughing long time. That was the answer they had was the whole period. Called the friendly visitors who went into places don’t like fight like five points, and basically the message is, if only you would be more like us. However, even though they were misfiring because they didn’t have the knowledge we have today, they didn’t have the theory today certainly didn’t have computers where they could crunch numbers. Their idea was this benevolence. The idea was they were trying to change society, not necessarily help people. So that was the division between charity, which has always been direct and specifically focused on individual family and philanthropy, which is always had much broader goals and has always been much more abstract. But that that split literally tony goes back to the early decades of the eighteen hundreds. Well, okay, cool. Um, let’s move forward a little bit, tio. Some of the recognition in the in the tax laws. That’s, that’s. Really? Not really about really, like two minutes left. So you’ll have to go through this little quickly charity’s. Well, first. Well, there was first non-profit status was like nineteen. Nineteen o nine. Okay, let’s, let’s, go back. We only have about a minute and a half. Now then let me do. The talking like men and they haven’t finished. Ah, before the before the turn of the last century, almost all taxes were levied by states churches had never been. Churches have never been taxed. It started with churches, property belonging, the church’s libraries. But all of this state law it was not until eighteen, ninety five something in that area when the federal government first mentioned not the charitable organizations that in caldnear non-profits charitable organizations, they were exempted. Then later it was codified that they had to be non-profit it was charitable organization first then non-profit what we think of today with the whole tax loss set up with the five o one sees that did not happen until nineteen. Fifty four and they were not in those days twenty nine categories of five a onesie. But just let again your listeners understand what we have today in terms of the tax exemptions. Number one this goes back centuries number two it’s started with the state’s number three. It became the law of the land when the feds put it in around red, around world war on dh that actually the exemption, the personal exemption for giving it inevitably goes back to the world will want here. Okay, so again, everything we see today, tony has roots a long time ago and that’s the overall theme of this particular part of the book. They’re working outstanding. We look forward to the book when it when it comes out, we’ll talk more. I’ll be back. Okay? Sounds like charity navigator between, uh, on the bookshelf. Dr robert pennant. You’ll find him at outcomes. Toolbox. Dotcom thank you again, bob. Thank you for having me. Future of e mail is coming up. No future females not coming. Who writes this copy? New overtime rules with jean takagi is coming up. All right, what i need you’ve heard me say this before. I need an intern. So i have somebody to blame for this crappy copy. So if you have, if you are interested being an intern, i don’t know. Or if you have a son or daughter andi, you don’t mind them being blamed for my mistakes. Sammy. Sammy the resume. Tony at tony martignetti dot com new overtime rules with jean takagi that’s what’s coming up first, pursuing there’s an opportunity for you to join a groundbreaking panel to raise the bar for us fund-raising pursuant is partnered with rogue hair, which is a fund-raising think tank in england. Dr adrian sergeant was a guest. Oh, maybe four, five, six weeks ago, roughly from from rogue hair to bring this. This joint venture is to bring what’s called critical fund-raising to the u s and they are recruiting a panel of pro fundraisers to make sure that new ideas come out of rogue ares research like the relationship fund-raising study that dr sergeant and i talked about was the march there was a march eighteenth show, so it was more than six weeks ago, march eighteenth so they want to put this you know this this thought into practice and that’s why they are recruiting a panel and also help the two companies identify while one’s accompany one’s a think tank let’s be precise. Now identify gaps in fund-raising knowledge so that rogue air can research them and fill them in. And, you know, i keep saying no, gary, i don’t know if it’s rogue array that’s the latin that it comes from, which is to ask, i don’t know if i don’t know if over there they’re pronouncing it. Rogue air or rogue ira, but any case they’re they’re partnered with pursuing. You can join the panel. The deadline to apply to be a panel member is july first. So you still have about a week. Go to tony dot, m a slash pursuant rogue air r o g a r e and you have to put a capital p and you have to put a capital r, because that’s, the way bentley works. So tony dot m a slash pursuant rogue hair and get your application in before july first. Hopefully you will be on the panel and improve fund-raising practice in the us. That’s the whole purpose of this now tony steak too fund-raising fundamentals it’s the podcast that i produce for the chronicle of philanthropy but doing this for three or four years you know that part i put together a round up of shows that are excellent that i think deserve your attention. There’s one on donor empathy called put yourself in your donorsearch news ideas for giving tuesday there’s ideas for boosting your plan e-giving and there’s more now this is a short form fund-raising fundamentals. Only each one was about ten minutes, so i could never squeeze dr penner into fund-raising fundamentals. It wouldn’t work. Um, he’s still here. So he i’m not saying anything behind his back. Um, anyway, i did a round up the video and the links to the to those short episodes of fund-raising fundamentals are at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two. Jean takagi. I know he’s on the phone and you know who he is. He is the managing attorney at neo non-profit and exempt organizations. Law group he’s, our monthly legal contributor times. Many, many years he edits the popular blogger at non-profit law blogged dot com. And on twitter, he is at gi tak gt a k welcome back, jane takagi. Thanks, tony. Happy summer school. Happy somebody. You do? It’s a sweltering one here in in here, in washington. I almost said new york city’s the mid eighties what’s it like in san francisco. It’s actually a pretty comfortable, like, seventy two out here. No big deal. All right, san francisco’s. Always bragging about their weather. You always boasting about that? Not in juno. You have june gloom you had. Did you have fog earlier today, june gloom we’ve had some june gloom way we’re headed towards july and the sweet whether or not yeah, well, we’ll worry about that. All right? Another time, all right, overtime rules, overtime rules have changed, gene, and it take a takes effect december first, so there’s still time to plan, but this has some serious implications for non-profits it does, and i think most of us are sort of generally aware of overtime rule that enough if you’ve had hourly jobs before, like i have tony, but, you know, we sort of get used to that idea of if we work more than forty hours per week is a narrowly employees were entitled to overtime time and a half, so i remember being an hourly workers that was actually sometimes a great thing to have to have that extra income, no, but i think what’s less known is that even if you’re paid a salary and so let’s say you’re paid, you know, thirty thousand dollars per year or something and not on an hourly basis, you might still have the time. The right tio overtime if you work more than forty hours per week that sometimes little known and little understood both. By employees and employers and generally the way people think is that salaried employees if you get a salary and not an hourly wage, you’re kind of in that category of exempt employees, which are those who are exempt from the overtime pay right, but not all right. And so that the most common forms of exemption are referred to as the white-collar exemptions. I mean, those are the executives who are, you know, usually managers managing two or more employees. Um, the professionals who are like, you know, teachers, lawyers and doctors. And usually it requires a degree and some sort of certificate, our license and the administrative imp ploys that are performing office and non manual work that’s directly related to management or business operations. So those are the typical salaried exceptions, the white-collar exemptions from from overtime. Okay, let’s, let’s acquaint listeners were, uh, and me with what what’s what’s changed. What’s the that’s not bury the headline what is new about overtime? So what is new is those white-collar exemptions were subject to a minimum amount. So even if he falls under the definitions of executive, professional or administrative straight of professional if you were making less than twenty three thousand six hundred sixty dollars, which is currently the threshold. You were entitled to get overtime if you work more than forty hours. So that’s what little known if you made less than twenty three thousand six hundred sixty dollars, you were entitled to overtime even if you were a salary. Now the law that’s changing says that minimum threshold is going up by more than double, so the new threshold is going to be forty seven thousand four hundred seventy six. So more than forty seven thousand where the old threshold, which will apply until december first, is only twenty, twenty three, twenty three so many more people now eligible for overtime pay, right? So basically, everybody who was salary between twenty three thousand six, sixty and forty seven thousand four hundred seventy six are entitled. Teo will be entitled to overtime pay time and a half based on their salary starting december first. And how do you calculate? What is the hourly rate? You just you just divide the weekly salary by forty? Yeah, i think you’re just going to do on on a pro rata basis. You, khun divided by the number of hours that you work in a year for for for a worker and then that’s the hourly rate your time and times it by time and a half. Okay, now this applies to all employers, right? This is not just non-profits that are being hit, it applies not all employers, but non-profits don’t have a special knows i’m from there. Okay, no special exclusion for non-profits and it comes from the us department of labor, right, not california law. Now this is not right for once it’s, not california, but people should know that they need to look at the state laws because the state laws sometimes might be even more strict than the federal laws. In some ways, that could be more difficult for employers, and in some ways, this increase will be much, much less for for state law. Under under state law in california, for example, are current minimum for exempt employees is forty one thousand, so that jumped to forty seven thousand isn’t so big. The federal level is jumping from twenty three thousand forty seven thousand much much hyre increase affecting many, many more employers and employees. Are there any states going above the forty? Seven, four. Seventy six and none that i know of. Okay? No. None being more generous. All right. Right. But i understand important. You do need to check your own state law. Yeah, and california will will probably be over that that amount in a few years as they’re targeting a fifteen dollars, minimum salary, hourly rate and the example categories will go up with that over a number of years. All right. You said no special exemption for non-profits, but some non-profits are accepted. No, no, no umbrella exemption for non-profits. But there are some excepted non-profit categories. Yeah, so not non-profits so generally you khun get you can fall under the coverage in three ways, and one way is just by operation of state law. So i’m going to leave that out for now, because the states will all differ on that. But the two other main ways to get covered is one if the non-profit is considered a covered, enter surprise. So a little bit of jargon there, but generally that means one of two things. One is that they’re one of these named enterprises. So if it’s a hospital or an organization that takes care of older adults or people with disabilities who reside on on the organisation’s premises or schools for children who are mentally or physically disabled or gifted preschools, elementary school secondary schools and in colleges and universities all covered so all their employees air covered as well the other type of non-profit but that would be great, but i need to understand something covered means they’re they’re subject to this rule, or they are not right. They’re subject to the new to the new law, right? So, employees, uh, all of those named enterprises are going to be subject to those those new rules in the new threshold for overtime. Okay, so those are categories named enterprises. All right, so you still might be outside the named enterprises? Absolutely. Okay, most non-profit they’re probably not just in the strict categories hospitals and schools. So the other way you get covered is if you have ordinary commercial activities that result in sales or business done of at least five hundred thousand dollars. Bonem so that the church here is its commercial activity, so they’re not talking about donations, and they’re not talking about income that’s directly related to furthering your charitable purpose, they’re talking about commercial activities that they’re more like unrelated business activities. So if you’ve got that type of commercial activity and i should say that commercial activity and unrelated business activity under the tax code with unrelated business income tax, they’re defined slightly differently. So i’ll just say this is more broader. So if it’s a commercial type activity that’s being done for-profit and you’re you’re intending, tio, i run a business to generate income for the non-profit no matter where the profits go, you’re just running a real business, and if it’s you’re making at least five hundred thousand dollars on it, then you may be a covered enterprise, and then all of these the new thresholds for for the overtime are going apply to your organization socially. So still a lot of charitable organizations that are not covered yet, but well, based on what we’re going through because you’re right, you have the named enterprise. Is the covered enterprises the named ones? Yeah, half a million dollars threshold in commercial activity. If you’re over that in commercial activity, then this these new rules apply to you, but okay, we’re still talking about a lot of charities that are not going to be impacted? Not yet. Okay, what’s your other category. All right, so any non-profit who has employees who are engaged in interstate commerce so that business transactions basically between or amongst different states and including whether you’re on on the phone or whether you’re doing business not on a very, very rare basis, but somewhat regularly interacting with folks or businesses or other organizations across state lines that does that include fund-raising activity? Yeah, that could that could. Well, this is a close one having this’s not not not going to just be donations there so it’s beyond just simple fund-raising it’s beyond okay, now i’m gonna i’m sort of putting you on the spot, so if you can’t say definitively, you know, of course, you know, use your usual loyally skills toe qualify, but this is going to be the biggest one that would potentially potentially that’s why i’m asking the question sweet lots of non-profits in if you’re if i’m a california charity and i’m making calls to nevada for fund-raising or sending e mails or any of these other things that our solicitations that you and i have talked about when you get into that whole charity solicitation registration realm, if you’re doing these things across state lines, is that the kind of activity that you’re talking about? Yeah, if you do it on a fairly regular basis, that could be activity that that we’re talking about. That’s, a book category, if you’re looking for donated items that are going to cross state state state lines, that maybe what we’re talking about, a swell. So any movement of persons or things including donated goods across state lines, that’s going to trigger and just the employees who are engaged in that activity that doesn’t cover all of the non-profits employees it’s just the employees that are engaged in that particular activity. Okay, so most likely this is going to be your fund-raising team, if you’re going across state lines and, you know, depending how big you are, you might have ah, corporate sponsorship team that just just does that sabat crowd funding is going to be implicated, right? Yeah could be we’re not really sure crowdfunding is so so new and not really caught into how the rest of the laws are our thinking about interstate commerce, and i don’t exactly know how that will. Work, especially with different intermediaries that that help out in the crowd funding. Provoc okay, yes, the intern, yes, those platforms as well. All right, gene let’s. So let’s, go out for a break. When we come back. Of course, we’ll keep talking about this, and you know, you have some ideas for what non-profits need to do and also coming up. Live listener, love, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back live listener love as promised! Oh my goodness, we’re gushing! San jose, california, stamford, connecticut, south bound brook, new jersey lovett welcome, south bound brook, morristown, new jersey live listener loved to you, boston, mass talking all about new england today with with with bob penna, rockford, illinois live listener love, i think that’s so that most of the domestic up st louis, missouri it was early early on live listen love, so grateful to have ah, that many live listeners love goes out to you. Of course we got to go abroad. I would be remiss if we don’t i have to do it. Tokyo, japan three three different listeners in japan in tokyo, specifically konnichi wa. We have three, listeners in seoul, south korea, anya haserot lot of times we can’t see had just how many? We just know it’s multiple, but, uh, you see three today and also multiple from tehran, iran welcome live listener loved to tehran three listeners, they’re also love it love it, my voice cracked little bit malaysia, we can’t see your city i’m sorry, but we know you’re with us live listen love to you and we got any other let’s see? Oh, yeah, of course. Hustle be sweden. Welcome live listen, love in noble park, australia live listener loved to you also, i believe that is all the yes. If we didn’t shut you out, then i’m sorry, but live love love to the live listeners. Absolutely. Podcast pleasantries. You know how many you are? Well, over ten thousands of you listening, whatever it is you’re doing. You know, i get tired of me in nouma rating the activities that i’ve heard. So just simple pleasantries to the over ten thousand podcast listeners, the vast majority of our audience and they affiliate affections. Got to send that out to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Our affiliate stations. Let your station know that you listen. You listen to non-profit radio. They would love that feedback. I would be grateful. Thank you very much. Am and fm affiliate listeners. Jean takagi. Thank you for that indulgence. Thank you for being on the phone with me while i, uh well, i think all our listeners it’s important, important it’s. So impressive in an international scope of your listeners. It is it’s cool. Did you know? I don’t know if you were listening earlier today. Did you catch our listener of the week at the top of the show? The executive director of california symphony. I did not. I’m sorry i missed that’s. Okay, aubrey burghdoff hour. Do you don’t know? Do you patronize california symphony? I patronize symphonies in california. Ok, well, hopefully audrey’s. Not listening any longer. Okay, um, let’s. See? So we have ah, you know, we have our standard, like five minutes or so left. What? What are some things that non-profits should be looking at doing to make sure that they are in compliance come december first? Sure. So, first of all, make sure you check to see whether you’re covered or not. And the one broad categories i just refer to very offhandedly was coverage through state law. And note that there’s the national council of nonprofit says that in at least eleven states, including new york and new jersey, the federal rules will apply to virtually all employees and employers, including of non-profits. So watch your state law coverage as well. In addition to the different coverages we talked about, can you a gene? Can you name any of the other states in that eleven has, according to them, it was alaska, dc, illinois, maine, maryland, massachusetts, missouri, new jersey. In new york, they said north carolina and ohio ok, and, uh, the national association non-profits believes most of the non-profits most or all non-profits in those states will be covered by this subject to this bye operation of state law regulation or administrative ruling will automatically apply to virtually all employees and employers. Okay, thank you very much for that in nouma rations. All right, so you got to know if you’re if you’re subject to it, then what if you are? Well, then you’ve got to do a lot of planning, right? So if you’re going to be subject to it, then you gotta start managing and figuring out your budget and what’s so difficult about this is it starts in december, so not too many people are going to have a chance to react to this with their next year’s budget. They’re gonna have to figure out how this is going to impact. They’re this year’s budget um and so so then they’ll have to figure out what do we do? Are we going to do we regularly use over? Time first of all, on our employees covered on are we going tohave teo find different alternatives? Do we need to maybe hyre part time employees or spread out the work in a different manner? So we discourage? Oh, our lesson are need teo give overtime pay? Or do we provide pay raises that increased the worker’s salaries to the new threshold? So so we are sort of been sink overall on we don’t have to pay overtime if we can get them up to that new threshold, and if they’re very close to it, that might be a cost. So one of those is heartless and the other is altruistic, but if we start cutting workers, reducing them to part time that’s ah that’s bad for them. Oh, actually, what i was suggesting and, you know, there’s there’s good and bad to all of this, but when i was first, suggesting is hyre part time employees, new employees so your current employees don’t have toe work the overtime. Oh, hyre new employee. Okay, i was thinking, reducing current employees to part time and bringing on more. Yes, so what? What the critics they’re going to say, though, is that that may not happen, but what may happen is that with the increase costs that are going to result because of the additional overtime taste, some non-profits they’re goingto have to pay starting in december, they may just lay off workers or cut programs instead. That’s a scary thought has that i’m sure somebody has raised that. That doomsday scenario yeah, i mean, it’s interesting. I’m not sure how you feel about it, i’m you know, without having a chance to sort of really study it, but there were over two hundred thousand comments that were sent when the first proposed these regulations to the department of labor. Most of them were pretty negative, and a lot of those negative comments came from non-profits that we’re saying, you know, first of all, we had no chance to really react because the rules come in place so quickly by december, and we didn’t really account for different geographic, you know, cost of living issues. So, you know, making you know that amount forty seven thousand in new york is probably one thing or san francisco and making it in oklahoma city or somewhere else, maybe very, very different. So there’s some really good criticisms about it and some difficulties, some non-profits especially in those rural areas that are going to have to face, on the other hand, they’re people that say, you know, we shouldn’t be taking advantage of workers just because we’re a non profit organization and paying them at a rate that’s below poverty level for a family of four. And that was the reason why the administration had justified that shift has not been changed since two thousand for so where twenty three thousand is below the poverty level. Yeah, family. In fact, i think the twenty three thousand is well below poverty level for a family of four serving one person making the income from that family okay? And where does the new forty six or forty seven and where’s that in respect to the poverty level, do you know what this is? How they defined it’s? I’m not exactly sure how they compare it exactly to where the poverty level is defined, but they say it represents the fortieth percentile of earnings the forty forty out of one hundred forty percent of that’s not very a fulltime salaried workers in the lowest wage census region, which is the south so forty percent out of full time salaried workers, that’s forty seven thousand in a place where the cost of living is lower, right is the lowest and okay in south. Okay. All right, well, you got to take these things, maybe incrementally, but it definitely, you know, it’s yeah. I mean, it has budget impact. And, you know, i’m not surprised that a lot of the comments from non-profits were negative. This this is gonna cost. Yeah, it’s definitely going to cost and it’s going to hurt some people in services, you know, maybe the counter is sometimes you’re gonna have to take some steps back is on on an organizational level. So on a national or or broader level, we’re moving forward. All right, gene, we’re gonna leave it there. I want to thank you very much. Thank you so much, tony. My pleasure. As always, jean takagi, you’ll find him at non-profit law block, dot com and also at g tak next week. Purpose driven branding and the new guide star platinum. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant. Online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com. Remember to check out the three hundredth show. Hope you’re gonna be with us july twenty ninth. You could play the music, sam, go ahead, don’t be shy. July twenty ninth, thirty three hundred show, sixth anniversary. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam lee broots is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for September 27, 2013: The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox & Optimize Your Social Profiles

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Dr. Robert Penna: The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox

Robert Penna 2Dr. Robert Penna, author of “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox” discusses the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement, and gives concrete steps and tools so that small and mid-size shops can stay ahead of the trend toward outcomes assessment. We also talk about Easy Bake ovens and my Eagle Scout project (as an example of what NOT to do). This is part 2 of our interview from a previous show. Part 1 was last week.

 

 

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Optimize Your Social Profiles

Picture of Amy Sample WardAmy Sample Ward, our social media contributor, has tips to fine tune your profiles on the social networks like Twitter and Facebook, while staying true to mission and brand. Also, using your profiles to promote campaigns. She’s CEO of the Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN) and her book is “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.”

 

 

 

 

 


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