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Nonprofit Radio for November 15, 2021: Bitcoin & The Future Of Fundraising

My Guests:

Anne Connelly & Jason Shim: Bitcoin & The Future Of Fundraising


That’s the new book by Anne Connelly and Jason Shim. They share the potential in cryptocurrency donations and explain simply, how to get started. Private keys; public keys; wallets; and exchanges. It’s time to learn what’s inevitably in your nonprofit’s future.






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Transcript for 567_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20211115.mp3

[00:00:02.84] spk_1:

[00:00:10.84] spk_2:
and welcome to

[00:03:09.04] spk_1:
tony-martignetti non profit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of hydrogen itis security Eva if you rubbed me the wrong way with the idea that you missed this week’s show, Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. That’s the new book by ANn Connolly and Jason shim They share the potential in Cryptocurrency donations and explain simply how to get started private keys, public keys, wallets and exchanges. It’s time to learn what’s inevitably in your nonprofit’s future. I’m tony state too, Veterans Day, We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o here is Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. It’s my pleasure to welcome co authors to nonprofit radio and Connolly is faculty at singularity University. She’s worked at Doctors without Borders and been a member of their board. As director of fundraising at Dignitas International. She set up one of the world’s first Bitcoin donation programs and is certified in strategic disruption from Harvard business school, Which sounds like a degree in anarchy. We’ll talk a little about what that what that’s about. She was named one of Canadian broadcasting corporations. 12 young leaders in changing. Canada and one of the 50 most inspirational women in technology in Canada. She’s at an underscore Connolly and welcoming back Jason shim he’s director of digital strategy and transformation at pathways to education. Canada his experience spans the nonprofit and academic sectors helping organizations stay ahead of the technology curve In 2013, he led pathways to become the first charity to issue tax receipts for Bitcoin donations. He’s an editor at ledger, a peer reviewed scholarly journal at the University of Pittsburgh Pit, publishing original research on Cryptocurrency and Blockchain technology. Jason is on the board of intend where amY sample ward, our listeners know her is Ceo and Jason is at Jason shim together they wrote the book Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. A beginner’s guide to crypto, crypto currency donations and welcome to non private radio Jason. Welcome back.

[00:03:12.14] spk_0:
Thank you so much.

[00:03:13.50] spk_2:
Thanks for having us.

[00:03:52.24] spk_1:
It’s a pleasure pleasure to have both of you. Uh and let’s start with you, the the Cryptocurrency is like a new technology like at one time the telephone and talking movies, right? Talkies and the T. V. And internet and cell phones. Uh these technologies all had their their naysayers and those who thought it was just a fad, you know, talking movies, those will never last. So what do we what do we say to folks who are naysayers. Uh thinking that Cryptocurrency maybe it’s just a fad or it’s too dangerous. How do we allay those concerns about this new technology,

[00:04:43.64] spk_0:
It’s very reasonable for people to be nervous about new technology. I mean I can remember my parents talking about the Internet back in, you know the early to late 90s and saying, you know anyone will be able to look up the recipe for a bomb like we need to stop this, this is dangerous. And you know, that’s true in today’s world, anyone probably could look up the recipe for a bomb, but no one would ever consider saying we should stop the Internet. It’s a bad thing for society. Um And I think that’s where we’re at with cryptocurrencies as people are still in that phase where they’re learning about maybe some of the scarier elements. Uh and they haven’t quite gotten to realizing just how powerful and incredible this technology is, both for themselves, but also for society and people around the world who might not have access to the same financial services that some of us do.

[00:04:53.64] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s a very interesting point. Uh let’s say a little more about how this can be liberalizing for a lot of folks, a lot of parts of the world where banking infrastructure is not something they take for common or, or financial infrastructure broader than just banking is not, is not something that they take for granted the way those of us in the, in the west do.

[00:05:43.04] spk_0:
Yeah, I think there’s two sides that really is for many of us in North America, we have easy access to banking services and um but even in the states, more than 25% of people are unbanked, they don’t have access to that. And when you look around the world, those rates are even worse and so many people just operate in a cash economy, it means they’re locked out of any sort of loan systems or being able to better themselves through more formal financial services and then there’s a whole set of countries where people can’t even trust their national currencies. So if you look at places like Argentina, Iraq Venezuela, sorry Iran where inflation is astronomical Even right now in Canada, inflation is more than 4.5%. But if you look at Venezuela in 2018, their inflation rate was hundreds of millions of

[00:06:08.39] spk_1:
was not more hundreds of millions or billions of percent. Yeah,

[00:06:53.04] spk_0:
it was wild. And so you know if you can imagine your life savings disappearing overnight simply because the government is printing too much money or isn’t a good custodian of the national financial system. That’s the reality for a lot of people. And so I think when I think about Bitcoin more than anything, it’s not. Its goal is not to replace national currencies. Its goal is to provide people with choice so that you know, if they’re really happy with the currency their government is providing, they can certainly use that. But if they don’t have access to it, they don’t have access to banks or they don’t trust their government to do a good job of managing their money. They have another option. And that’s what for me is so exciting is it’s this global permission list system where anybody can take part um and use it to fundamentally change their lives.

[00:07:10.44] spk_1:
So Jason is it is it as simple as just needing an internet connection for anyone in the world to to participate in in cryptocurrencies?

[00:07:12.44] spk_2:
Yeah, I mean that’s pretty much the foundational building block that you know, if you have access to an internet connection and you can download, you know, the uh you know, there’s a few different approaches of accepting Cryptocurrency. But yeah, it starts with an internet connection in terms of getting getting access to that that wider network for sure.

[00:08:05.44] spk_1:
Okay. Um uh the uh I did a quick search of just comparing the us and Canada and adoption rates are much higher in uh in Canada than than in the us. I found like 13% of Americans Have bought or traded Cryptocurrency but it’s it’s like 30% of Canadians. So much much wider adoption for our well for your country, for our neighbors here, for me, for our neighbors in the north, for for your country, for the two of you, any any explanation as to why it might be 30% in Canada vs just 13 in the us.

[00:08:09.94] spk_0:
I think what might be Oh sorry, go ahead.

[00:08:12.24] spk_2:
Go ahead. And

[00:08:12.63] spk_1:

[00:08:48.84] spk_0:
think what’s even more exciting really than comparing the United States and Canada is looking where it’s growing globally. You know, some of the greatest adoption rates are in places like Nigeria or South east Asia. Um and that’s really demonstrative of, you know, when you have locations that maybe aren’t providing the financial services that we have in north America, the rates are exploding um from a Canadian perspective, I know people are really keen to explore new technologies and we also have a massive immigrant population that wants to send money back home. Um so trying to find mechanisms that enabled them to do that without paying fees of 8-12% through Western Union. The coin is a really great option for a lot of those people.

[00:09:28.14] spk_1:
Mm hmm. Alright. Uh now and I was, I chose you but you didn’t answer. You didn’t answer the question. So I’m gonna try Jason although it was anarchist. Uh that is that the degree in anarchy. I knew it. Um what is what we call it? A strategic disruption. Alright. The anarchy degree or certification. So uh, Jason any, any, do you have any insight into why so much more widely adopted in Canada than the U. S. Not that what I said was not valuable. I, I appreciate what’s happening in *** et cetera. But I just wanted to bring it, I don’t want to try to bring back to to the north America here.

[00:12:01.94] spk_2:
Yeah. In terms of adoption rates like what I found over the years is that, you know, when, when tech companies in the past have been looking for like pilot areas that I, I know that Canada has stood out as being, you know, the place where, you know, um, initial kind of rollouts or pilots that have happened. So, you know, when I know that when, you know, folks are testing out like new apps, you know, for their organizations, it’s a multinational organization, it’ll tend like what I’ve observed is that it has tended to be uh tested in Canada first and I, I imagine, you know, that may reflect, you know, that it’s a fairly, you know, uh text avenue connected, you know, uh population, but also uh there were some hotspots for Cryptocurrency, you know, in its early days, I mean, ethereum was born out of Toronto battalion, peter in is, you know, Canadian the founder of ethereum and uh there there are several clusters in Canada that, you know, a lot of the initial developments encoding around, you know, Bitcoin and ethereum and subsequent projects uh I think really grew out of that. So I think what we’re seeing in terms of the increased adoption rates is an extension of that where uh you know, not unlike, you know, early silicon Valley where, you know, a lot of, you know, tech development happened there that, you know, for, I think the early 20 tens, um uh Toronto really served as kind of, that, that initial hub in those communities that really got engaged, so no surprise that, you know, subsequent, you know, companies emerged and uh, you know, adoption uh may have been a bit quicker here. Um, but you know, I think that we are seeing that definite dispersion where there are multiple uh you know, crypto hubs that have emerged in the last 10 years for sure. But yeah, I mean Canada is also a wide place of you know being able to send uh send payments um easily and by a practical example and this isn’t particular to Canada, you know specifically, but you know when when working in international context, you know, hearing from, you know developer contacts in the local community that when you’re considering paying developers overseas and all the options that available like Bitcoin is emerging as you know uh when uh when when speaking to folks about you know how they’re managing payments, you know, Bitcoin is often an easier way to pay um developers in other parts of the world than it is going through traditional payment mechanisms um because of that the lesson administration and at times even just the availability where you know trying to pay someone, we’re banking systems are limited, you know, as I mentioned earlier. Uh so I think all these things combined have contributed to higher um you know, Canadian adoption as you pointed out.

[00:12:39.04] spk_1:
Yeah, interesting. All right, thank you. Um so you mentioned ethereum or ether being the the second most popular Cryptocurrency behind Bitcoin, Jason was was Bitcoin originated in in the States or was that was that also in Canada? That’s uh interesting somewhere else. Well no, I’m sorry, it was another country, wasn’t it? Uh, Bitcoin,

[00:12:47.04] spk_2:
I location wise, I think it’d be best described as um kind of Bitcoin emerged online that, you know, to this day, the, the, the founder, founder or founders of Bitcoin. Um, you know, uh, so in terms of like a specific location, videos created, uh, you know, Bitcoin would have been online and then, you know, Ethiopia, many of the major players who are known were based out of Toronto.

[00:13:34.64] spk_1:
Right, okay, okay, that’s right. You say in the book that the founders of Bitcoin are still unknown to us. Right, okay. All right. Um, and with some trepidation go back to you. Uh, so since I made fun of this, tell me about what a certificate and strategic disruption is. What is that? I

[00:14:48.64] spk_0:
think the key element about it is it helps you develop a mindset about how to think about moving forward with your organization or your company, where you try to essentially disrupt yourself. And that’s why companies like Apple were so successful is, you know, they had a product and a product that worked, they could have just, you know, kept producing that same product for many years until some other company came by and beat them out and the company would go under, but instead of waiting for someone else to come out with a better product, like she said, hey, we’re going to actually cannibalize our own offering. We’re going to make a better product. So you know, we’re not going to just make the ipod, We’re now gonna make the iphone, Um, and our customers are gonna buy that instead. And so they were constantly creating new and imaginative things and changing the lives of their customers and so strategic destruction is really that. And you can apply the same type of mentality in the nonprofit sector and say, listen, you know, we’ve got a pretty good fundraising program. We’ve got major gifts that come in. We’ve got direct mail that goes out and um, we can sit here for 20 more years and raise money this way. But the nonprofits that are going to do the best in the long run are the ones that really look at their program and say, hey, let’s, let’s actually shake up the way that we’re doing things. Let’s try some really new and innovative stuff. Some of it will fail. Some of it will succeed spectacularly. And that’s actually gonna help us future proof the organization, um, and help us be, you know, essentially a stronger longer lasting organization moving forward.

[00:17:06.64] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. Communications. It’s in their name. So they don’t only do the public relations and the media work that I’ve talked a lot about communications is so much more vast than that. So think about documents, documents you used to communicate case studies, your annual report, white papers turn to, can create these documents for you. They’ve got a journalism background, a writing background. They know how to understand your, your tone, your core messages and how to bring those out in your written documents. So you got this content that needs to be created and it’s not getting done. You need help think about turn to because your story is their mission there at turn hyphen two dot C. O. Now back to Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. Let’s uh, let’s, let’s bring it back to Cryptocurrency and north America. Give us give folks some motivation uh, in terms of raw numbers and potential growth. Uh, so we can help allay fears because you know, aside from it being a new technology, you know, lots of folks get the, uh, pay me $2500 in the US in Bitcoin or else I’ll release these bad things about you on the internet, you know, and I’ll share your contacts with their, you know, etcetera. So there’s some that contributes to some of the fears, these, uh, these um, uh, you know, email scams. So help help allay some fear with some hard numbers about where crypto is and where Bitcoin is maybe specifically and about the future.

[00:19:00.64] spk_0:
Yeah, I think the best numbers I can help relay are really numbers around donations that have already happened. And so you know, last year, the talent veteran who is the founder of ethereum, He gave a billion dollars to Covid relief, a billion with a b. So tell me about any other billion dollar donations that you heard about last year, you know, in any country around the world. And so, and that’s just, that’s, you know, it’s not the only one we had. The Pineapple Fund gave away $55 million borders Australia just got a $35 million dollar gift last week. Um, so the numbers that I really want to convey our, that, you know, there’s a community of crypto donors that are waiting to make these gifts that have just enormous amounts of money and a real passion for changing the world. That’s why they got into crypto because they want to make a difference. And so now they’ve got all this money and they’re trying to find organizations that they can actually give this money to. And right now that’s, that’s a challenge. Like right now there’s some incredible organizations accepting. But in order to find charities that are accepting crypto, most donors will google, they say which charities accept Cryptocurrency and then they pick one off the list. And so there’s this amazing opportunity for charities that are out there are nonprofits to actually uh, connect with this donor group that’s really being ignored by most of the community and really make deep relationships with them because they’re very different from traditional donor groups, how they like to give, what interests them, that type of thing. But the potential for their giving is just astronomical and the potential to create change together. Um, is what really gets me excited

[00:19:02.91] spk_1:
about cryptocurrencies

[00:19:04.01] spk_0:
in the space.

[00:19:30.44] spk_1:
Yeah. At the end of every chapter, you have a little call out box about a donation, a big number donation that was made in Cryptocurrency. Um, but yet the penetration rate, I think in the States, there’s only three or 4% of charities only are accepting, uh, Cryptocurrency donations. Uh, and some of them big ones that you name our United Way Red Cross. Do you want to, do you want to shout out a couple in, uh, in Canada that are accepting.

[00:20:58.14] spk_0:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean pathways to education of course, which is Jason’s organization was one of the first war child has been accepting for a long time. We have organizations like the Mississauga Food Bank, which is a, you know, a major site pita United Way up north as well as accepting. So it’s not the case that there aren’t, you know, well recognized organizations with good brands and, and that are well trusted. There are many names. Um, I think what sort of holding some organizations back is just, is education, You know, we’re at the stage where Bitcoin can be a little bit scary. Um, people don’t necessarily feel comfortable, They’re not sure whether it’s gonna be worth it. Um, and, and that’s really just a small hump to get over, you know, you can watch a lot of great videos online to learn about it. You can, you know, get the book that Jace and I put together, which is specifically written for fundraisers who don’t know anything about crypto and want to get started. Um, but more than anything, the best way to kind of get excited and start learning about cryptocurrencies and is just to buy some And you don’t have to go out and buy, you know, a $10,000 worth or anything just by a dollar’s worth of Bitcoin. Um, think of it as, you know, investing in evening of your time and learning something new and fun. Um, and that will really help you understand, you know, how it works, what it’s like, what you could do with it. Um, and uh, it’s a great way to get your foot in the door.

[00:21:29.44] spk_1:
Yeah, and Jason you in the book, you to recommend that as also establishing credibility with the crypto donor community is buying some, buying some on your own even before your organization has a, has a mechanism has set it up so that you’re not, you’re not just testing your, your own organizations, uh, infrastructure for accepting these gifts, we’ll get to that, but just buying and buying some on your own sounds like gives credibility to you, gives you credibility among the donor community

[00:23:52.64] spk_2:
for sure, and I think that many who are involved in the Cryptocurrency community, You know, I think it goes to really, how do you build that deeper relationship and have a conversation with folks that it’s it’s not just, you know, solely talking about, you know, the, you know, yes, there’s a donation part, but it’s also, you know, I think, you know, being able to speak knowledgeably about it, um, and, you know, as as people are involved in it and interested, you know, it, um, showing up in the communities as well. And I mean, that that that’s another kind of tactic that, you know, we do mentioned, you know, in the book and, you know, have seen used to to get the fact that, you know, if if you’re going to engage, you know, communities of donors that are very interested in, you know, something that they have self identified that, you know, before folks get into it. You know, folks typically, you know, do a lot of research and um, and you know, form, you know, uh, in person communities are online communities around it and just showing up in those spaces and being like, yeah, you know, I’m often, what I found over the years is that, you know, when participating in, you know, those Cryptocurrency spaces and everyone’s doing introductions, it was a few years before I was, you know, for a long time, you know, was the only charity in the space of reasons like, hi, you know, I work for a charity. So what brings you here and immediately there’s a way to connect over that and focus get really interesting. It was a few years before a second charity arrived. And you know, that was an indication to me that, you know that this was growing in awareness and such. But you know, I think that having that background of even having purchased a small amount, you know, gives that it gives that experience and credibility around, you know, it’s not just you know, saying, hey, you know, uh can you make a donation? Okay thanks, bye. It’s you know, how do you cultivate that longer term relationship where we’re part of something bigger here? Like there there’s um Cryptocurrency, you know, emerging as uh as a new asset class as a way to facilitate transactions that, you know, uh bigger, bigger possibilities. And in terms of, you know what we’re seeing with um uh with the ways that people are transacting, interacting, you know, uh, N. F. T. S around the corner. We haven’t touched on that yet, but it’s uh it gives more surface area for to connect with people on and you know, I think that, you know that one building a relationship, you know, having having more of those commonalities is also important.

[00:24:41.14] spk_1:
So, and mentioned the the fact that a lot of lot of crypto donors now are just Googling, you know, where can I make a crypto donation, but we wouldn’t expect that to continue as the penetration rate becomes higher among charities. Mean, so it is going to be building relationships and, and eventually it’ll become just another way of making a gift from folks that know, you, you know, like, like writing a check or transferring stock, eventually they’ll be the world will be just, you know, it won’t be, where do I make a donation by, through crypto?

[00:25:03.94] spk_0:
It’s no different really than, you know, when charity started adopting online donation platforms and, you know, website donation forms in the early days, there weren’t that many that had them and people wanted to use their credit card to donate online would have to figure out which charities made that possibility. But today, no charity would ever think of not having an online form. And so really it’s just, it’s just a timing thing, we’re just still in the early days and very exciting days. And because of that, there’s an incredible opportunity for the organizations that do get on on board early

[00:26:20.14] spk_2:
and, and, and to that point, like, I I think that, you know, when, when we think about, you know, early days when there were opportunities to donate online that, you know, I think there was a period in which organizations would have, you know, um competed on, you know, features that even just having the ability to accept credit cards online would have set you apart and, you know, as more people, you know, adopt online credit card payments, then you have to, um, you know, compete on a different kind of, uh, on like service provision. So, you know, the, the ease for which someone can make it right. And you know, I think we’re seeing that similar transition where, you know, right now, it’s still that, that phase where it’s like, okay, you know, does someone accept it? Yes or no? And that, you know, as that, um, as that number increases, then it’s going to be a different proposition where it’s like, alright, who, who does it with the most ease or who provides that additional added experience? That is, you know, absolutely fantastic. Um, and you know, as we look into, you know, how, um, how folks are engaging. Like, you know, it is there a future in which, you know, folks, you know, have some sort of representation on, you know, the Blockchain that’s like, you know, this certifies that, you know, you have donated to this organization or you know, you, you can unlock, you know, uh, different online, you know, possibilities, you know, through your donation that’s embedded on the Blockchain or opportunities like that. So, you know, I think that that’s kind of a possible feature that, you know, things can move in that direction as well.

[00:27:27.44] spk_1:
Jason, let’s make sure everybody understands the Blockchain. Uh, it took me a good amount of reading and many guests before you or well give myself a break a few guests before you. Maybe not many, uh, you understand what Blockchain is but it’s really it’s really something very simple once I once I once I understood it was simple but it took a little I’m trainable I guess I’m trainable. That that that’s the good news but uh you know so every every Cryptocurrency is on a Blockchain and you the book is a very good primer about all the, about the whole world of Cryptocurrency not just about Blockchain but I found your book to be a good primer use good analogies, I mean simple analogies that are easy to understand. So well let’s make sure everybody understands what a Blockchain is and and why each Cryptocurrency has its own Blockchain. Can you explain that Jason since you just mentioned Blockchain?

[00:29:06.64] spk_2:
Yeah yeah so so when we’re making a transaction you know there there is a record that has kept it and traditionally you know there may be like you know 11 record that is kept but what’s different about a Blockchain is that as a transaction happens on the network uh everyone who is participating in the network keeps a record of um of all the transactions that are happening. So you know the three of us right now that um you know uh tony Jason and that you know if I were to transfer Uh you know $5 you know worth of Bitcoin over to end That the record that has kept. You know imagine all three of us scribbling that because we we witnessed that happening. And so, you know, it’s between, you know, uh someone could claim it’s like, oh you didn’t actually give and you know $5 you gave her three and be like, no, no, wait a minute. Like you had seen that transaction, you had written it down. And so that is kind of a really basic explanation of, you know, what, how the Blockchain operates except instead of three people, imagine that with 30,000 people or more like, you know, just every single person who’s participating, the network keeps their own, you know, extremely detailed ledger of everything that is happening within the network and that that’s, you know, in part what keeps it secure that instead of trusting, you know, one single party that, you know, could, you know, alter, you know, those those records. It’s like you you have the collective that, you know, everyone sees everything that’s happening simultaneously in electronic format.

[00:29:45.94] spk_1:
And you to explain in the book why that’s enormously secure, secure from, from hacking from financial fraud and theft, uh, secure from mistakes. So, you know, listeners, you gotta get the book to get to go into the depth of the security of of the Blockchain. Um All right, so let’s let’s let’s start getting into the nitty gritty of of how to and can you start us off with, I think it’s important to explain what the keys are, the private key and a public key and then we’re going to get into how folks get their own are going to buy and maybe sell their own Cryptocurrency but you started off with the keys and.

[00:31:25.64] spk_0:
Yeah no problem. So if you think about your wallet um that you have in your purse or your back pocket and you store your cash in their Bitcoin uses something called the wallet as well. Um And it’s where you store your Bitcoin but it’s digital. Now if you think about your house, every house has a public address so 123 any street and you can give that address to anybody in the world they can send you a letter. They can you know show up and look in the windows but they can’t actually open the door to your house and take any of your stuff. And so your Bitcoin wallet also has a public address. And what you can do with that public address is give it to anyone that you know wants to send you money and they can send you money and it gets deposited into your wallet. But your wallet also has something called a private key and it’s kind of like the key to the front door of your house. And so if you give that key to anybody um they can open the front door of your house. They can come in and take all your furniture and all your electronics and whether they’re legally allowed to or not they can do it And the same sort of thing applies to your wallet’s private key if you give them that private key, anybody can then open up your wallet, take your Bitcoin and there’s really no recourse. And so, um, essentially what that means is you want to always keep your private key safe, always keep your private key backed up in a number of secure locations. Um, and what’s really nice about that is if you ever have any issues with your wallet, like let’s say you lose your phone or you know, something happens where the company making the wall, it goes under and you’re suddenly like, where’s my money? As long as you have your private key, you will always have access to your money. And so that’s what’s really amazing about it versus say if your bank went under, you might not have access to your money ever again. If Paypal froze your account, you wouldn’t be able to access your money with Bitcoin. As long as you have your private key, you always have access to your money.

[00:33:39.24] spk_1:
Okay. And again, as I said, the book, such simple analogies that the public key is like your address and the private key is like your house key very very, very comprehensible. It’s time for Tony’s take two veterans Day was last week and I was remiss in my show planning for last week’s show. So I don’t want to let it go. Unmentioned. I’m grateful. I’m thankful. I thank the many millions of people who have served our country in the military and also my gratitude to families who have lost folks because of their military service families that made that sacrifice and the military members themselves, that made those sacrifices. I’m thankful to those people as well. And if there’s someone in your family who died in the military, died supporting and defending our nation, I thank you. I had my own service. I was in the Air Force uh Military services is a calling and I I admire those who continue to answer that call. That call to to service duty to our country. Thank you. Thank you. Mhm. That is tony stick to Veterans Day. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for Bitcoin and the future of fundraising and you know, you want to continue. It seems to me like the next step is, or the way you lay it out is the next step is getting a wallet.

[00:34:00.54] spk_0:
Yeah, so there’s lots of different ways to get a wallet. Um There’s most, the most easiest ways just get download a mobile wallet on your phone. Um There’s ones on the web as well and there’s a number of different companies out there now. Um

[00:34:01.66] spk_1:
and just explain what the wallet is for.

[00:35:27.24] spk_0:
Oh yeah, the wall is just restoring your Cryptocurrency, that’s it. So it’s kind of like the wallet you’ve got in your purse or in your back pocket. Um it’s just where you keep your crypto and it enables you to send it to other people. So if you have like Venmo or something like that, it feels a bit like Venmo um you just open it up and you can send your Bitcoin to someone else. The difference is there’s just no centralized company behind it, the way there is with Venmo or Paypal, um so you know, there’s a number of different wallet companies out there, some of them will enable you to hold on to your private key. Like Blockchain dot com is one example of a wallet that I use, that enables you to hold on to your private key. Many of you probably heard of coin base coin base is a little bit different because they actually hold on to your private keys. So it’s probably less secure from that perspective because it’s always good to have your key, but if you’re afraid of losing your key, coin base is probably a good option for you. Um So once you pick the wallet, you download it onto your phone um and then you can use an exchange to actually buy Cryptocurrency. So typically you would either connect your bank account or use a credit card um and just trade some of your usd or eur Canadian dollars for us northern folks and they’ll give you something corny return kind of the same way, like if you were going on vacation to Mexico, you would take your usd to an exchange booth at the airport and they would just trade you some usd for mexican pesos here. You’re going to get usd and get some Bitcoin back.

[00:35:34.14] spk_1:
So and if it’s a, if it’s a wallet like coin base, you said they hold your private key, you can also hold your private key. I mean like they can’t have it and you have it.

[00:36:17.53] spk_0:
No, because at the end of the day it’s like your house key. You know, if two people have a copy of the house key and all of a sudden the contents of the house are gone. Who stole them? You don’t know, you fundamentally need to have, you know, one person that, that’s responsible for the contents of the wallet and that’s either gonna be you as an individual or the company will take on that responsibility for you. Which has its pros and cons. Um, and so yeah, for a lot of people that’s, that’s a huge plus having someone else manage that responsibility for um, others in the crypto space. It’s really important for them to manage and own their own money.

[00:36:22.73] spk_1:
Can you name any other of the more popular wallets you mentioned Bitcoin dot com coin base

[00:36:29.96] spk_0:
coin bays bread wallet. Um, there’s electra. Um, there’s Jason. What other ones can you throw in there?

[00:36:37.93] spk_2:
I think that that, that covered off all the big ones, the

[00:36:47.23] spk_0:
metal pay exodus. Yeah, there’s, there’s a number a number of different options out there for folks to choose from these days, which is great.

[00:36:52.57] spk_1:
Okay. And it’s just a matter of googling right. What what are the top 10 wallets or what what’s a wallet for my, is it is it country specific? Do you need a wallet that works in your country, Jason?

[00:37:21.43] spk_2:
No, it’s uh it’s pretty cross border. So you know the song is that you can download it from uh you know, your respective app store and it works, you know, just uh you know, making sure that you’re finding a reputable wallet that you know has solid reviews and but you know, there’s uh no country specificity aside from, you know, uh if it is attached to a certain provider, a company that accepts a certain currency. So I know that there are some wallets um on the international side that are particular for um deposits, that you know, if uh if you want to deposit in a certain currency, then that may be the only kind of particular about it. But otherwise, you know, it’s pretty uh pretty universal.

[00:38:08.22] spk_1:
Okay? You make the security point in the book about not keeping your private key on your phone. But you both have mentioned the phone and using a phone app, but you’re supposed to just write your private key down and keep it somewhere secure. Like uh I get like a safe deposit box or something.

[00:38:44.82] spk_0:
Yeah, safe deposit box is a great spot safe in your house somewhere where you’re keeping really important documents. The way to think about it is you know that key will fundamentally open access to all the money in your wallet. So if you had $500 in cash where would you store that? Would you store it in your desk drawer? Would you store it in your bedside table? Probably not. You probably store it somewhere a little more secure. So based on how much money you have in your wallet, that’s sort of where you want to think about storing your private key if it’s 20 bucks, yeah, maybe put it in your desk if it’s $100,000 you definitely don’t want to leave that lying around.

[00:38:48.12] spk_1:
Um And Jason can you say a little more about exchanges?

[00:40:30.41] spk_2:
Yeah. So in terms of exchanges um you know we talked earlier about, you know while it’s exchanges are where the many of the transactions are around the world, you know take place. And really that it functions you know similar to regular kind of currency exchange or a stock market exchange where you know there’s it establishes a market where there you know those buyers and sellers and so you know um uh as I mentioned earlier, you know if you’re looking to exchange something like us dollars for you know. Bitcoin that um you know you’re you’re usually gonna be working with an exchange in order to uh to do that and on exchanges, you know, depending on on the exchange. You know, they may list a whole bunch of um different currencies, cryptocurrencies, you know, uh So you know, they may list in U. S. Dollars, you know, Canadian dollars, you know, Bitcoin ethereum, you know, if folks are looking at things like, you know, dodge coin um uh and it’s going quite quite extensive. I mean, you know, some of the larger ones are definitely, you know, listing uh many many different cryptocurrencies. Um but you know, if those who are looking for like, you know, the major ones that you don’t have emerged, you know, primarily, you know, Bitcoin in theory. I mean those are pretty standard almost across all exchanges these days. And uh they they the exchanges are really the mechanisms for which um you know, as a release back to two nonprofits that uh you know, after someone does make a donation of of Cryptocurrency um you know, having that exchange, you know, connection or um and some providers, you know, have that baked into their uh their services. That’s how you convert the Cryptocurrency back into, you know, a currency that the uh charity can use, you know, so if you s you know, how do you get that big pointed us dollars, you know, you’ll you’ll be working through an exchange in order to convert that so you can deposit into your bank account as well,

[00:41:05.61] spk_1:
Jason, let’s make something explicit because you know, when we’re recording Bitcoin a single Bitcoin is around $55,000 roughly a single ether is around $3500. Let’s make explicit that you don’t have to spend $55,000 if you want to participate in the in in buying some Bitcoin.

[00:41:08.31] spk_2:
No, absolutely not. So you know the uh it goes up to eight decimal places and I think that that’s something that is uh that’s helpful to to be aware of. So you know it is possible to buy like you know 0.00000 won worth of Bitcoin or ethereum. So um you know they’re uh definitely do not have to participate entire Bitcoin or entire. Either in order to participate in the in the ecosystem.

[00:42:15.20] spk_1:
Okay. And so you have in the title of your book you you you you you say Bitcoin but non profits could be accepting any of the any of the coins that you mentioned. But does it become so when you when you stray from Bitcoin and ether which are the two most popular, are you are you taking a greater risk if you get into like stellar and you mentioned dodge coin and by finance does it become riskier for for you personally if you’re doing your your experimental purchase and your credibility building purchases or or for your non profit if you’re accepting those other less popular like all the old coins.

[00:44:43.99] spk_2:
Mm it’s similar to I would say like you know in kind donations or stock donations that charities would ordinarily receive. And so you know, I think that when considering Cryptocurrency donations, like the vast majority of them are being transacted in Bitcoin followed by either in that order. However, when looking at all the coins, you know, what’s worth kind of thinking about is you know, imagine a prospective donor who you know may have, you know, picked up Dodge coin when it was valued at 0.0001, you know, sense and held onto it. And you know, now I think the last I checked it was like 26/27. And so you know what with regards to risk, I think it’s more helpful to assess like, you know what what’s the conversation that’s being had. You know, is someone approaching your organization with, you know, uh a donation was like, hey I like to contribute, you know, 100 $100,000 worth of dodge coin. You know, generally speaking, I would hope that, you know, a charity that is approached with that kind of um offer. You know, it’s okay, let’s, you know, let’s find an exchange that that will, you know, help us convert, you know that that amount of dodge coin, you know, into uh into U. S. Dollars to allow us to to accept it. And and so um, you know, I think it really depends on the audience. Um and so you know I think that’s what drove some of the early adoption where, you know, as Bitcoin started, you know, rising in price, you know, more offers of donations were emerging and you know, I think that you will see, um, you know, similarly with the old coins that are out there that, you know, definitely for folks who have gotten in early on some of the old coins and you know, um, it, I think it still remains to be seen which ones will, will take off. You know, we’ve already seen, you know, the emergency, you know, Bitcoin and ether. But you know, five years from now. You know, who, who knows, you know what, maybe up there. And so, um, what I have observed is that many of the exchanges are responding accordingly as well. So as as a, uh, all coins or other cryptocurrencies are taking off. You know, they get added to exchanges, which does make it easier and simpler for, um, for organizations to uh, to exchange and transact in that. So, um, you know, there, there have, there have been instances actually of folks donating, uh, you know, all queens, I think dodge coin, you know, definitely has a lot of fun stories about how, uh, how supporters have, uh, have donated their, um, their, their rapidly rising uh, currency.

[00:45:49.99] spk_1:
Yeah. Because you know, like you’re saying dodge coin, someone could have bought it for uh, tens of thousands of a penny. And at one point, I think it went up to like 60 cents or 65 cents in value. So if someone had spent like $100 or even a foul, all the more of 200 or 500 or $1000 buying millions of shares and then the price went up to 60 cents. You know, they’ve got, they’ve got a lot of money in dodge coin all of a sudden and if they then converted it to dollars Canadian or us, uh, they’ve got a lot of money potentially to give. And, and the, the book points out a lot of folks who are very, very generous with their, with their Cryptocurrency windfalls,

[00:46:34.98] spk_0:
Jason correct me if I’m getting the numbers wrong, but if something approximately where if you had, you know, invested $100 in ether at its launch, you’d have over a million dollars today for $2 million dollars today. Like it didn’t take a lot at the beginning. If you were really passionate about this project, you put a little bit of money in um, to suddenly have this astronomical wealth that would be almost impossible to generate in any other way in our society. And so it’s, it’s really what you end up getting is fairly ordinary people, you know, that came from ordinary means that that now have this wealth that, you know, they’re not interested in buying gold plated sneakers, you know, they want to create change and that’s where the nonprofit sector can really help them do that.

[00:47:23.18] spk_1:
And let’s stay with you and move to the organizational level Now. Let’s talk something about getting, getting buy in uh, in the book. You make the point that you’re not even sure the board should be approving this, they shouldn’t be involved. It’s more like, should we start accepting credit cards? You know? Uh, so it’s more um, asking for support rather than permission. But let’s talk about, you know, Ceo by in or maybe vice president of development by in uh, what are some of the reasons you might you as a crypto advocate in your organization? Might might start putting forward for why your organization should get into this. So

[00:49:16.07] spk_0:
the reason that I used when I was convincing my Ceo back in 2014 was I said, look, you know, it’s really what we can do is accept it, we can sell it immediately. There’s no fluctuation, there’s no currency risk, anything like that. And fundamentally that’s no different than accepting a stock. Like we already accept stocks and other securities. So if we do exactly the same treatment as we do with stocks, there’s really no risk to the organization and I think this day and age, there’s no brand risk, there’s, there’s no another stigma that used to exist around Bitcoin is really not there anymore. We’re seeing it adopted by not only charities, but major organizations and companies Microsoft, IBM, all kinds of different companies are heavily involved in cryptocurrencies. So I think that’s, that’s the key one is saying, okay, we already do this with another volatile asset on the stock market. Here’s another opportunity where we can essentially bring in A whole new set of young donors. And I think that’s probably my favorite argument for Cryptocurrency is most of the donors and most of that community are between the ages of 24 and 40. Um, and so if you’re really looking to bring on a whole new set of the younger generation of donors, this is a great way to do it. And you won’t be cannibalizing any of your other activities. You’ll have this whole new set of donors with no risk. Um, and for any organization that fundamentally says, hey, we want to be innovative. We want to be new here is a great way that you can do that. That is not only exciting and innovative, but it’s also a revenue driver. And so it’s pretty hard to say no to something where you say, okay, you know, we’re gonna, we’re gonna give this a try. It’s going to cost us essentially nothing to set up. We can set it up over the course of the week. There’s no risk and it might make us some money and bring in new donors to me. That’s an absolute hell, yes.

[00:49:56.87] spk_1:
Okay. There was like four or 5 very good reasons why, you know innovate, prepare for the future, expose yourself to do constituents. Uh, it’s becoming mainstream. There’s no stigma. Um, and and help you raise more money just in a different format. Um, let’s just make explicit. And is it is it your your recommendation that non profits would sell their their Cryptocurrency right away as you would with stock or what, what is your recommendation for? What to do with a crypto currency gift once you have received it,

[00:51:17.86] spk_0:
I wouldn’t recommend it. But that’s my risk tolerance. And so what’s really most important is to look at, like, what is the risk tolerance of your organization? You know, And I think, um, every organization should really sit down and say, okay, how much cash do we have on the balance sheet? You know, how much money do we have every year to play with? And what percentage of that Are we willing to put in a high risk investment? So maybe we decide that as an organization, we want 99% of our money that we raised to be there at the end of the year, and that’s totally fine. Um, but take that 1% and hold it in a Cryptocurrency and see what happens. Um, and say, look, this is a microscopic risk that we’re going to take for the potential upside of making a lot of money. Um, or maybe your organization might be a little more risk friendly. You say, look, we’re gonna we’re gonna have safe, secure investments or just keep our money in cash for 75% of what we bring in 10% we’re going to put in, you know, uh index funds with the stock market and the rest, we’re going to put in Cryptocurrency something a little bit higher risk, like I think really at the end of the day it’s not so much, you know, should you sell it or not, it’s how much of your portfolio are you putting in high risk versus low risk assets? And I think the thing to keep in mind this day and age is with inflation, where it is putting your money in cash is not safe, You’re losing money every year by holding that money in cash. So if you’re trying to maintain the amount of money that you have by the end of the year, you need to be doing something with it. So is that something high risk, low risk, what percentage is it? Um That’s up to the organization to decide. But I would really recommend that every organization actually take a critical look at what they’re doing with their money um and reserve at least a tiny portion of that to take a look at holding cryptocurrencies for the longer term.

[00:51:49.66] spk_1:
And the reason you say you’re losing money if you’re holding cash is because of inflation.

[00:51:53.89] spk_0:
Absolutely, yeah,

[00:51:55.76] spk_1:
Jason anything you want to add to the organizational policy.

[00:52:00.85] spk_2:
Yeah, I think from just looking over a trend lines, you know to the point that that and made about risk, it’s you know really aligning overall organizational strategy with what organizations looking to achieve and how you know their asset holdings maybe um may reflect that and that their risk tolerance and I think when looking at trends like it was as early as I believe it was 2014 at the time that Canada was looking at digital currency programs and you know, although that program at the time that it was called the mentorship program, you know didn’t proceed, you know uh

[00:52:32.83] spk_1:
I’m sorry Jason who would you say was looking

[00:53:11.45] spk_2:
at? I’m sorry the Canadian government or the Bank of Canada was looking at a program called the uh the mint chip program and that was really a Canadian digital currency that was being explored. But now there’s been a resurgence I think just in the past week, you know the G seven group of nations you know agreed upon, you know a set of standards to examine, you know digital currency. So I think when looking at, you know overall trends, you know digital currencies and cryptocurrencies are not if but it’s a when and you know for organizations are preparing for the future, strategically it’s it’s really you know do are by by participating in the ecosystems. Now you’re especially future proofing organization for that future which is going to come of, you know as governments are seriously looking at digital currencies that the same principles that govern you know, how do you treat you know, cryptocurrencies that this is all going in the digital direction and you know that much is evident. And so, um, it’s more of a timing consideration now. It’s, you know, would you like to do it now or later? It’s

[00:54:24.84] spk_1:
coming right. It’s it’s not, it’s not if, but when I think that’s a terrific place to wrap up. You know, there’s, there’s a lot more in the book. There are checklists for how you set this up at your organization. But I wanted to focus on the basics a person venturing into this because with the statistics that that I mentioned, so there’s still 87% of Americans are not involved in crypto and still 70% of Canadians are not involved in crypto. So I want to, I want to overcome that and then move to the organization level. And as I said, the book is a very good primer, lots of easy to understand analogies. The book is Bitcoin and the future of fundraising. A beginner’s guide to Cryptocurrency donations. The co authors are an Connolly at an underscore Connolly and Jason shim at Jason Shim and Jason, thank you very, very much.

[00:54:32.94] spk_0:
Thank you so much, appreciate it.

[00:54:34.68] spk_2:
Thanks tony

[00:55:08.54] spk_1:
pleasure thank you for sharing and and doing it in a simple way next week. Mission uncomfortable. That’s a working title with stew Swinford, that’s not a working name. He’ll he’ll stick if you missed any part of this week’s show, I Beseech You find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff

[00:55:10.73] spk_2:
shows. Social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman

[00:55:14.50] spk_1:
is our web guy

[00:55:15.65] spk_2:
and this music is by scott. Stein.

[00:55:30.94] spk_1:
Thank you for that. Affirmation. Scotty You with me next week for nonprofit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for May 18, 2018: Blockchain and Bitcoin 101 & Be Data Driven

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Sheila Warren: Blockchain and Bitcoin 101

You’ve certainly heard of them. You’re probably confused by them. Let’s straighten it all out. What are these technologies and what do they mean for your nonprofit? Sheila Warren is a knowledgable instructor and makes it easy to understand. She’s with World Economic Forum. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)




Eli Hertz:
 Be Data Driven
What are the reasons to create a data-driven culture in your organization and what challenges will you face? Which tools can help you? Eli Hertz is from United Service Organizations (USO). (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)





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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer due to wrap a thie if you said primarily that you missed today’s show blockchain and bitcoin one oh one you’ve certainly heard of them. You’re probably confused by them let’s, straighten it all out. What are these technologies? And what do they mean for your non-profit sheila warren is a knowledgeable instructor and makes it easy to understand she’s with world economic forum that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and be data driven. What are the reasons to create a data driven culture in your organization? And what challenges will you face? Which tools can help you? Eli hurts is from united service organizations uso that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference. I’m tony steak too it’s. Time to make time. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant to radio bye weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cpas, dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s here is sheila warren and block, jane and bitcoin welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. We’re coming to you from new orleans, the convention center there. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits my guest is sheila warren. Welcome, sheila. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure. Sheila is head of blockchain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum on dh her workshop topic is started. I’m talking about you like you’re not here. You’re workshop topic is blockchain for non-profits fact versus fiction. Yes. Okay, um i’m gonna tell you this one has been intimidating me a little bit because i and i even did research on this research. My voice is cracking over, not nervous, but it isn’t intimidating because i’ve tried to crack the bitcoin, not blockchain, but the bitcoin topic two years ago at ntc it was not a dedicated topic. It was became a a digression that i created on i regretted it while i was mired in it and i couldn’t get away out gracefully and and we never really talked about you in what? What the heck bitcoin is okay, so since then i’ve done some technology. I’ve done some reading if i describe bitcoin as there’s, no there’s a greater fool. Does that make sense that you mean it doesn’t really have a value other than the hope that someone will buy it after me and therefore increased my value? I mean, is that i think you’re jumping right into the controversy right into the thick of it. I read the wrong article, i think that’s great, i think let’s back out of that. Okay, okay. Go in. Any direction you like? I did some research, but i don’t want to get mired in it. Okay? Bitcoin. Blockchain. All right, why don’t we start since bitcoin was popular before blockchain? Although i know that they are related in one relies on the other. I have that much down. So i think you’re ahead of many knowing that there’s a distinction between the two? Yes. Ok, i do. All right. I’ll just ask you simply, which i tried two years ago. What is bitcoin and how does it relate? Toe non-profit? Yeah, sure. Okay. So i’ll start by saying you know the number one thing i want people to take away anytime i do any kind of speaking is bitcoin and blockchain are not the same thing now they’re equated because bitcoin is built on something that’s called the bitcoin blockchain, so the terminology is quite confusing but the best analogy i can think of is that bitcoin is to block chain as email is to the inter so blockchain is a foundational technology when it is finally really baked into our systems, people will stop talking about it the way we don’t really talk about the internet anymore except we’re being a bit ironic. We talked about applications, right and bitcoin is an application on blockchain. It is the most famous application on blockchain. It was the first application on blockchain. Bitcoin blockchain was built for bitcoin. So be like if the internet was built for email, you could do other things. But it would be this equations were trying to do is teo that of course let’s tease it apart. These are a lot of other things you could do with a block to that have nothing to do with bitcoin. And even if bitcoin were to completely fail and go away. There would still be exactly the way it will be an internet without email. Okay, let’s, just before we get to the blockchain value on its transparency, etcetera, let’s just flush out the big going a little more so i think non-profit think of it because it’s impossible fund-raising right? I mean, it’s, possible revenue source. Yeah, donors could give gives to you and there have been enormously large gift in the press. Yeah, of bitcoin two non-profits so, yeah, i agree. Okay, so let’s dive into a little green deeper into bitcoin. Yeah, so i was wrong. So i was that was something controversial. I said that it doesn’t have intrinsic value. Well, i mean, i think it has doesn’t have intrinsic value. I mean, bitcoin itself that’s a big debate. I mean, people, some people argue absolutely has intrinsic value because it’s filling a gap in a way that nothing else can really fill the gaps. Some people argue it has absolutely no intrinsic value. It’s all just like, basically hyped value in market value. Like whatever the pr around and i think that’s, right? But that that’s arguably no different than many. Early stage, you know, cos right, like, when you think about equity in an early stage company doesn’t have value of tv, you know, so it’s not that different. So i think to me what i find interesting or kind of mildly amusing at times is like the idea. This is like this brand new distinction, right? We kind of have this model already. It’s called early stage equity grantwriting mean, like those might be paper and worth nothing. They might be worth a ton of money you don’t really know. And to be honest, like your kind of gambling when you buy a digital currency, you know, you should have written the article that i read well, of course you know, you should get them. I not that i should have found your articles. I didn’t know you when i was doing this. Well, i wasn’t in this case two years ago. I just entered the space two years ago, but my research is more recent durney written articles way have something coming out actually, next week on april nineteenth, we’re doing a launch of what we’re calling a blocked a decision making, took it about blockchain and really trying to make it very accessible to the layperson, not in terms of what is it? But is it valuable to you? Is that we’re gonna find that in the world economic forum. Sightly ok, ok, good. Look for that if you want to know more about this, okay. Back-up so let the bitcoin all right? Backing out of the controversy part of it people could give you get absolutely, yeah, just the way they used to get. Yes, you make some very good analogies up early stage equity interests. That would be a challenge for non-profits to deal with. Exactly. Okay, and now we’ve overcome that at some point, real property was hard to deal with, like getting real estate starts thinking the new newest iteration of that. But it’s really no different. Don’t be scared. Don’t be scared. You want to know how to receive it? Receiving bitcoin is actually not that hard. You got a coin bait. I mean, this is one example, but what the easiest example probably is you go to coin base, you get a receipt on lee wallet base. Coin base is a company that has what’s called bitcoin wallets. You get a rece ive on ly bitcoin wallet that lives in the ability to receive bitcoin, converted into fiat currency and move on with your day. You can’t buy bitcoin with that wallet, but it’s a pretty easy mechanism. We’re getting you and their other competitors as well. There’s a kind of ah a cottage industry, if you will, in this kind of thing, okay, you receive only while it will be sufficient. And then how will you convert that to its done that’s? All worker magically on the back end, right? You kind of pick your currency usually it’s usd. And then you just they do the conversion for you at the current rate and then you move it out. Now you’re still accepting whatever the current rate is, you might decide you want to hold it longer and want to play the market. It exactly. But it’s like it’s no different for foreign currency. But the cashing out of it is just another it’s. Just a different call. The defense called a wallet, which isn’t you know, i think a very accurate term actually ways we have one of those wallets that enables you to receive this particular kind of currency and then you just decide when you want to cash it out. You move on with your job. These doesn’t want to do he’s well known icons, wallets, you know, it helps. It helps those of us who were trying to get our way in. Well, well, i put my money in my wallet, right? So i’ll just get my bitcoin in my virtual wall. Exactly. Okay, what’s, the what’s, the one you you name, that we could go to base one base dot com and there are others are ok, but you can start there. And it’s. Very simple. Okay. That’s, how to receive bitcoin gift for your non-profit thank you, strickler. You’ve been doing this a while. You’ve been talking to a lot of deal fights. Clearly it’s my my fair parts of my job. Okay, excellent it’s. Time for a break. Pursuing the art and science of acquisition is one of their content papers acquiring new donors. Is it part of your summer planning, perhaps, or keeping your prospect pipeline full is on your mind so you keep revenue robust? How is revenue? If you’re thinking about acquisition? Get the paper. The art and science of acquisition it’s on the listener landing page. Tony dot m a slash pursuant radio now back to block chain and bitcoin one oh, one now let’s, go to blockchain technology. Okay, now that we understand that bitcoin is but one one channel it’s built on built on a blockchain technology. Okay, how would you describe blockchain technology? Yeah. So i like to use the example. Elect yousa thank you. Tell me, but it seems to worry working for so if you and i were teo, i would buy something from you. Whatever it was, then we might decide. Okay? There are two options when we could just we don’t trust each other. Let’s say we contains other cash, marie and i just can’t do it. Whatever dollar bill ten dollar bill you give me the whatever it is and i walk away and we both walk away very happy our transaction is completed. Another way that people do. This is we get our mobile devices and we decided we’re using paypal or venmo are square cash or whatever it is. And we engaged in a transaction and we both again walk away. Satisfied? That transaction is complete. There are five. Parties in the mobile example there’s you, me, your bank, my bank and intermediary, whether that’s, paypal or whatever it is and the reason that you and i are confident enough to walk away from the transaction feeling it’s completed is because we trust those three intervening parties. We trust that they’re goingto all suspect effectively and sufficiently debit my account and credit your account the right amount of money, and we don’t have to really pay attention to that, right? But you can imagine, and this is hypothetical in our case and sort of the western united states largely, but not everywhere. You can imagine a world in which i don’t have access to a bank account or you don’t or both of us don’t. There is no intermediary that’s going to be trusted any matter is easily hacked whatever is for whatever reason we have no trust in this system and we want to exchange something that’s analogous to cash bitcoin additional currency. Is that anil? It is basically the internet analog of my handing you cash there is no meaningful intermediate is no centralized intermediary that’s mediating that transaction for us we’re able to peer-to-peer exchange that value so that is the beauty, if you will, of digital currency, right? And what it provides the marketplace that doesn’t currently otherwise exist except for in paper. Ok, how does blockchain is what enables that happen? So what’s happening this magical middle? I’m not actually hand i’m not like brain sending you something, right? There’s something happening in here what’s happening in here is blockchain is being deployed essentially i mean it’s not technically accurate, but let’s for our sake. What is actually happening? Okay? Rather than me sending something to a central authority and kind of like a chain of central authorities were sending it to a distributed network. So we’re saying what our ways of creating trust? Well, one way creating trust is to trust an intermediary if you don’t have one other way, cretin trust is to make take it totally distributed. So imagine if between us there was a network of a thousand computers not connected to each other independent pseudonymous so no one knows how anyone else is right at the exact same time they’re creating simultaneous this is again not totally accurate, but likely to be a simultaneous record of our exchange, they’re indicating i opened up my digital wallet i released, you know, one bitcoin, which is money. And you gave you something very valuable in exchange and you receive it. Okay? And in orderto hack that transaction, you would have to convince thousand computers to change their record. That’s why they’re i was going to ask you, why are there a thousand computers? That’s? Why security? Security? So it means you can see it’s far more secure than a central database that could be easily hacked. Right? Like one source of truth can be hacked very easily. A thousand simon, identical sources of truth are very hard to have. So each of these computers houses the same information. We call it a ledger about our transaction. And this is why we call it distributed ledger technology. And we can do this because my voice keeps cracking like i’m fourteen because because the cost of storage is so dim minimus on the margin that we don’t worry about all this redundancy. I mean, we got a thousand computers with the same in-kind large network with the same data, the same ledger, but but that’s because storage is so cheap. It’s not so. Much storage is so cheap because it’s a method of achieving trust. Right? So if you if you either either you you trust something? Are you trust nothing. And if you trust nothing, then a thousand synonomous computers is about is going to get right. Exactly right. Nobody has an incentive to screw up our transaction record incorrectly. And if they do, if one computer in that thousand computers records a different version it’s competition we spotted almost immediately and there’s a check that happens. What happened? What’s going on there, you know, so it’s very, very hard to hack. It makes it quite secure. How about how about hacking it so that the one becomes the accurate transaction and the other nine hundred ninety nine convert to that that’s computational e-giving possible? Yeah, demographically impossible to do that. Okay, okay. Yeah. So that’s the way it works now latto brand not going to get a ring about it has given it was going to kill it. Ok, i don’t want to know what’s interesting about this, right? So this is the premise of the bitcoin blockchain and of what are called public blockchain but interestingly enough, which are getting are the human impulse, i think, is to say what i want to control something, if i want, if i want, if i don’t trust something, i want to control it, right? So you’re getting a lot of explosion of these permission block chains, which means that you control you know who all the computers are. Basically, are you on, lee? Allow computers that you have kind of vetted into the system. When you do that, it becomes more securely it’s gotta be it’s, kind of like counter involvement words, they don’t know. We don’t know which each other dahna that’s very good that’s, right? Okay, so what’s the oh, what i’ll ask it instead of trying to figure it out, what’s the value of this two non-profits yeah, i think there’s a lot of value to this. So one, i think, in the sort of remittance space in terms of programmatic work, there are a lot of places where, you know, charitable work is done it using remittances using kind of the last mile payments, like problems that have existed for a long time, that we’ve been unable to really have a great solution for there’s a huge problem osili is realized recently through a world bank project there’s a huge problem with charities, certainly in certain kinds of region syria, the kinds of places being unbanked like having no access to bank accounts. And in many of these regions, people are literally taking paper cash into these environments and using it to provide services right, hugely problematic, very unsafe, very risking dangerous activity. If you have a digital wallet it’s that much more secure, right? Like it’s, actually that much harder. Teo, steal that hack it. You can prove ownership using encryption, there’s a lot of other things about it that are better. In these situations and that’s sort of the extreme example is the example we’re seeing a lot of different application level there’s, other completely non currency related applications of blockchain, so one that i think is really critical is digital identity. So this is this comes up a lot in the refugee asylum situations you could imagine a family has to flee in the middle of the night. They can’t bring any of their papers with them there’s no proof of who they are, their citizenship, their credentials, whether medical license, whatever it is that medical records, nothing like that. If all of that we’re on a distributed ledger, it would be security’s, not a paper based system. So so when you think about the application layer where you’re moving away from paper and you’re storing something in a secure manner, but not in some sort of like a database of government, where the government could be corrupt and come in and kind of change things up and disavow it, but in a way that really is truly secure that you own the only entrance key too, like that is very powerful to think about, you know there are we. Know that in homeless encampment, united states leaving aside like this war tor in-kind of regions, even in united states, there’s no accurate record of the homeless population because people who are born homeless often don’t have records, right? And then if you die homeless, there’s no account about this son accurately, in a sense, is acknowledges it’s completely off with that population. Imagine if there were a digital ledger that you could create around that now policy on how you do that is very challenging because it’s not an easy problem to solve, but at least there isn’t a different option. Now for three zsystems exactly exactly for preserving it current once you once you are creating and has overcome the challenge of gathering data, there’s a place to preserve it and the persons data is not vulnerable. Exactly loss or hacking. Okay, okay. Um now one of the articles i read talked about the transparency on dh. The example was a donor giving to a program and tracking progress of that program and then tying her funding two milestones that disease through the blockchain technology through some user interface. I guess the fucking can you help people understand? Better than i just did. What i’m talking about is absolutely so i think that we call the supply chain integration and i get a flow is an example of a supply chain supply chain of cash, but their supply chains of all kinds of things, i think it’s easier to understand that if we think about a supply chain and we’ll take mining as an example, because this i think people really understand this, ok, so and one hundred percent with your analogies. Thank you. I’ll make sure we bring it back to the non-profit but you go ahead. Yeah, so when you think about mining and you think about sustainable practices, right, so people don’t want blood diamonds. For example, there is a international process established called kimberley process that evaluates whether or not i don’t recall the kimberley process so it evaluates whether or not a diamond is mind using fair labor, you know, no child labor and all the things that you actually would care about is a consumer of this diamond and using blockchain technology, those diamonds are actually etched. Can you confirm follow using a combination r f i d e a lot of things and block chain a diamond throughout the entire supply chain from the moment its mind and you can you can certify that the mine itself was done with correct worker conditions, and etcetera are fundamental. Whatever it is, you contract that all the way to the refinery, to the manufacturer, to the retailer to thee. Kayman right, so there is certainty that that specific mineral or metal was taken all the way through, and this applies to other kinds of minerals and metals as well. You could imagine something similar that would apply, teo, you know, cotton or coffee or whatever it is, right? Like you could actually certify that a particular bag of coffee beans was crude was was harvested on a plantation that would that met their labor practices and was organic. And, you know, whatever the things are you care about fair trade certified, you could track that of a supply chain, and you could therefore ensure and give meaning to some of these labels that we don’t actually have any proxy for ascertaining are actually true. Great. So this provides more accountability and transparency because you can track the same good throughout an entire system. Now the same thing is true of aid flows. So a dollar originates somewhere. It’s basically just a supply chain all the way through. So any diversion of that money can actually be tracked. It’s a really interesting question. If you do this in digital currency every time digital currencies exchange there is a record created by definition. It’s not like cass. We’re just kind of khun vanished. There’s no ability for to vanish. It’s. Impossible. Great. So if i give it to you and you give it tio some other intermediary and they suddenly diverted to some corrupt whatever it is that that currency can be tracked so you can create accountability system, you can show that it went to pay your staffer that it went teo, you know, a contract to build the well or whatever it is. You can actually show that. And you can report all that ledger back too. The donor exactly. How does the organization interact with block james with the right to say the blockchain? No, there was no. It depends on a blockchain blockchain. And normally just sabelo depends on how dramatically interesting. You okay, what’s the user interface. That thing with donor and really question sametz finally twenty minutes and i got one good question is, is it okay for the donor and the non-profit? How we interact with? Yeah, this’s one of the challenges right now and it’s one of the reasons there isn’t at this gigantic explosion in use cases, even though they’re theoretical use cases everyone agrees on. People are now in the wake up in the state got started on the stage where this is being developed. When you think about the early internet and everybody was kind of risky, prompted was typing things and whatever that was not accessible. Teo fingering people call this business was not it was not accessible to a lot of people, right? But once you had a graphical user interface that came into play, people could pipe in plain english. And you kind of had with me what you had. What you see is what you get. You have these interfaces that were just more intuitive. You know what? You were wearing a realist. I have george in jail, but i wouldn’t wait. I mean that’s that’s. Well, that’s, not jargon. Ok. Fantastic, i presume. Thanks. I don’t agree with you. I’m fearful that you have low expectations of my understanding. Now go. Okay, okay. All right, well, listen, non-profit lady radio listeners or at least at my level, most of all, most people going with us so that those were all huge innovations enabled the explosion and things like email in google and search engines than whatever, until you had that was very hard to imagine being there, steve jobs is times a thousand, right? Exactly, right? So give it a little time and we’re going to get there and before you know it, we’re not going to talk about blocked it anymore. It’s going to be kind of this thing of the past, right? No, one’s talking about consensus mechanisms are proof of work or bubble it not going to care about any of that we’re going to be like, oh, did you check out your whatever the company is it’s the new facebook, but now built on block chain that we all now can’t live without you. So we’re getting there. We’re getting there. Awesome. All right. You really think you have very good analogy is a very good way of explaining this. Thank you. And thank you. We still have a couple minutes left together. So what more do you want to say? Is there another level we can go to? Ise there a story you want to tell about a non-profit using this technology? What? You know, i got love, yeah, i will say a couple of things, i think that, you know, i would really encourage listeners and anyone, you know, to really think beyond the digital currency example, and so we gave some examples of identity and supply chain and others, you know, there’s, interesting work happening around impact and how charity’s khun demonstrate impact using blockchain and kind of tag metrics. Tio tio not necessary to cash, but to sort of the street planning that goes all kinds of different implications for this technology and really the kind of, like joke in the blockchain nerd of which i am one system is to say, like, when you really start thinking about what this can do, you have these, like, three a m wake ups where you think like, oh, my god, like, you could do that, i could do that, i could do that, and you have to kind of dialling back down and we’re not there yet, you know? So one example, i’m really what got me my three a m moment that got me really hyped about this technology was in criminal justice, something i’m very passionate about and thinking about chain of custody of evidence. So thinking about thie way that evidence gets lost things like rape kits or dna evidence or whatever it might be a chain of custody people exam, and i’m thinking more of in other countries were tortured or vanished, get disappeared, kidnapping or not, it is our most of our institutions are exactly so we’re doing a big project anticorruption work in south america, where we’re thinking about government accountability and transparency and how you can actually work around and mitigate corruption, which is i’m the president in many parts of the world, using this technology because of the ability to track and trace, which is really key. So i think that is where the big innovation is gonna happen. It’s already happening and will continue to happen in this space and the implications, i think, for non-profits are quite quite profound the ability to track and trace something or someone is very, very so. Any objects like you had said the diamond is physically etched. Yeah, i mean, it’s gotta be obviously a pretty small, actually. Dankmyer dahna it is. Okay, so but any physical things, physical evidence in a criminal in a criminal case. Oh, it’s, great kids. A bloody glove, as a random example. Okay, very good. Okay. Uh, out. Forever. Forever. Forever. We will never have treyz we won’t have lost evidence. You’ll know if if it is disappeared, we’ll know exactly at what stage is exactly at what stage disappear. There won’t be a guests there’s no ability to hide, right? And you can mark that that security with like, with a geo look, even geo tag it, you know exactly, literally. Exactly where that thing was that the last recorded exchange of it. Okay. So which is really profound when you think about that, we have about a minute left. What do you love about this work? Not not so much. Not so much of the technology. But what do you love about explaining it to people? I think you know, i think it really is. Ah, i don’t think it’s surprising. How intimidating it it it’s a very intimidating technology, in part because there’s so much media attention about it, the volatility, the currency and then bitcoin millionaires and all this kind of billionaires and all this stuff and and you know it, it’s a community that’s really fascinating. Someone just used bitcoin. I asked you to talk about someone just used going to fund every single every single request that was donorsearch shoes dot org’s every single one got funded overnight, a lot of money, and charles rich asked for it. He couldn’t believe that he got it. Well, it’s also crazy because this is like there’s so much money in this that there are people who are they want to press, like the people that really, really have the money security to hired security. Us. What has this like thug element to it in this history of, like illicit actors in nefarious activity, you know kind of things people mean arms were sold using bitcoin, that the fact people were traffic using bitcoin? That is a fact, all right. And the idea that we’ve moved away from that not saying that is it still happening? Because let’s be candid, it is still happening, right? But that’s not the case for which it was really designed, and most people in this space are not interested in that kind of activity when you think about the shift away in the movement opportunity it’s really exciting to get ordinary people call them, like, lay people aware of this at least at a base level, and to not be afraid of it that i find very rewarding, okay? And like, we no longer fear the internet and automobiles exactly where you wanna go both okay? All right. We got every motive. Transportation? All right, sheila warren. Thank you very much. Thank you for the pleasure. You helped enormously. I’m so glad. She’s, the head of blockchain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum once the article it’s coming up that we should look for, it’ll be april nineteenth and it’s called the decision making till can’t it’ll be on our website? Awesome on our twitter my interview with sheila is sponsored my pleasure by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit medio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty eighteen we need to take a break, wittner. Cps. You need your nine. Ninety done. Right. You need an audit. Start at wagner. Cps dot com. Look at their services for non-profits. Read a few testimonials. Then pick up the phone and talk to partner. Eat huge tomb. I know him. He’s. Been on the show. He’s. A good guy. You explain what you need. He’ll tell you if they can help you. No pressure, he’s. Not that way at all. Talk to him. Wagner. Cpas dot com is the place to start now. Time for tony’s. Take two. Summer is close, it’s. Time to make time for your time away, including offgrid time. I hope you can do this. You need it. We all need offgrid time. No phone, no email. You know offgrid my encouragement video. Is that tony martignetti dot com good link. Dot com. Listen, i’m a safe too. Looked our founder of good link at goodland. Dot com non-profits connect with businesses that advanced their missions. When i want the best connections i listen to non-profit radio like you are safe. Good link it’s a new marketplace where non-profits meat vendors providing products or services? No cost to you as non-profit it’s, your bridge, your connection to the products and services that you need i’m helping them get started see what you think. Check out good link dot com it’s l i n c now time for a lie hurts and be data driven. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc it’s a non-profit technology conference hosted by the non-profit technology network. We’re coming to you from new orleans convention center there. This interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donor-centric software for non-profits. And my guest is you. I hurt he’s, the vice president of information technology at united service organizations. Us. So you lie hurts. Welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you. Thanks for having me welcome. My your your subject is becoming a data driven organization. Why should we? Why should read to make better decisions to do our mission better, more efficiently. B a and teo, to be able to have more impact, you’re confident that this changing culture going to bring about all these good outcome? Yes, yes. If you are you okay? It will there be challenges to get there? Yes, there will be. Challenges to get there isn’t a transition necessary, absolutely, but i’m confident that if and when we navigate those those challenges, the getting there enables better decisions, so we’re able to do our mission more effectively and that’s really what it’s all about, okay, and this does not just apply in the information technology department knows is you know what? This is organization wide. Oh, absolutely matter of fact, i’m glad you asked that tony, because if it only applied to information technology department, we would never get there that’s not how it’s accomplished the my department is about enabling the tools and technology that air the underpinnings, but really getting there and ineffectiveness is on ly when the business used the lines of business, that of performing the mission are asking the questions that are doing the analysis, they have the context they know the right questions to ask on the story that needs to be told it is absolutely not by-laws malefactor tools just one other piece, that the tools are evolving to enable that the so that it doesn’t take a technical person like it did in the past. The tools are being designed so that anyone khun, step up, use um and ask the right questions to get the answers they need. Okay, are we able to talk about some of those fools later on? Sure. Ifyou’d like tio conversing with them. Okay, you know them. Okay, good. Well, i’m guessing if this is going to be a cultural change, the change is gonna come from the top. So ideally so, the way we’re approaching a tony is both a top down and bottoms up approach both simultaneously kind of come out it from two angles, and we think both are necessary. Neither one by itself would would get us all the way there. We are fortunate have a ceo is very technically driven that understands the has the vision of what it can and should do for the organization to be able to make data driven decisions. However, just mandating it isn’t isn’t going to get us all the way there because the ones that are going to make it work are the ones that are going to be working. The tools are maur bottoms up because they’re they’re day today they have the context, they they have the context for the fund-raising with a marketing or the program delivery there of our constituents, and they have a better sense of the business processes and what all the data means so they can ask those questions if they don’t buy-in and have the right inquisitive mind set dahna we won’t get the answers that we want, they want to know more about what they’re doing and what the outcomes are on. And, you know, what successful was not now, of course, you’re coming at it from the uso perspective, but hard now they’re our listeners air over twelve thousand people in small and midsize non-profits sure, so the lessons apply equally, right? You know, nowhere and what i’ve said so far. Did i talk about the mission of us? Owe every single non-profit has a mission to deliver some service or product, mostly a service, for the benefit of of their their benefactors, so really it’s about understanding what their mission is and and they can all equally equally gain from increasing their impact, it’s about increasing the impact based on the insights that you have on the data that you’ve collected or can aggregate nowhere and what i just said that i talk about. The uso mission every single non-profit and benefit from it. Okay, i want to make that explicit. I i know it’s true. Otherwise you wouldn’t be here. But i want metoo explicit for our for our listeners. All right, so ah, a lot of this is around empowerment also. Right? So we’re empowering staff to be asking the challenging questions that data can provide answers to. Yeah. Ok right. Are we empowering? Well, empowering is part of it. Yes. That’s a necessary but not sufficient. Okay, so we have to start. You know it has tohave empowerment. They also have to have access so access to the right data stores. And this means breaking down stone by breaking down stovepipes for silos breaking down paradigms of no, this is this is my thing. And then also learning the skill set and the mindset, skill set and mindset. So the skill set to to manipulate tools which, again are being designed to be always there friendly using some of this technology yourself and then and then the mindset is critical as well. Tony is having that inquisitive mind set to what’s what’s really happening here in my fund-raising in my marketing campaign in a program delivery what’s the underlying what’s the activity that’s happened. Who are the players that are impacting it? And what can i or do? I want to learn to make it better. So it’s that inquisitive mind set this is not we won’t get there by what some folks air more accustomed to is generate some report that says, what happened? That’s just reporting that’s the same, you know, something that you can construct and say point to this was thing that happened, this is about in court inquisitor enquiring mind set and interacting with it. So if i’m listening to this and i’m i’m motivated by what you’re saying, but i don’t yet have the top down or the bottom up, or i guess i’m in the bottom or maybe not right in the middle somewhere sure, or might be at the top. We have ceos who listen also how do i get the other end? Or if i’m in neither end, how do we get both ends to buy into this? Yeah, great question. Well, first, we think is start small and show a little benefit and you can do it relatively relatively easily, relatively. Affordably and, you know, for every non-profit every dollar we don’t spend is a dollar that goes to our our mission, and some of the tools are very affordable and show the way do a little pilot hyre we did a proof of concept, the uso first to say, hey, for very few dollars, this is a kind of insights we can generate and here’s iraq without. What do you think? Wow, this is really given tell the story of your your test because i think i think the example will help, okay, listeners understand, you know what? How do you bite off a little bit of this, like, a little a little bit of what? Where do we start? Yeah, absolutely. So we we had, uh we took data from two of our important or two of our sources that support somewhere big, most impactful business processes. One is financial, so that shows a roll up of our fund-raising how we’re doing on revenue, you know, fund-raising and the other is relatively new data set that that we just deployed a system last year for part of our digital transformation, which was collecting usage metrics of our customers, they check into our centers and way made a digital platform that collects the check in and some of that there some of their demographic snoopy ii, obviously and and we have now about six months of here’s how they and when and how they interact with us and what they think of us and what they like. And these are two data sorts one was just talking about the tools, but one was in the great plains data set which many organisations used, which we exported from report into a csp export, relatively simple stuff. And the other was in a sales force back and data set. And what we did is we used a pretty affordable tool for non-profits microsoft power b i it’s okay to talk about product. Certainly. Yes, i want you to. Yeah. Okay. Super yeah. Which is very affordable for a non-profit handup power b i microsoft power b i business business insight. Because this intelligence argast it’s ah it’s in the gardner magic water and for the last two years is one of the top in the b i space non-profit the cost is very affordable there’s a free version as well. And you can experiment the free version. So what we do is we got a little bit of help because if this does require some different mindset, you know, then then folks have been doing one thing for a long time, so we got a partner for a little bit of help to say, okay, help us bill, do some analysis and build some visualizations in a dashboard that shows what what’s happening in these areas, both from financial progress. Oh, and also for our customer usage, we did it in a month or two, just a few dollars, not much product dollars, and we built visualizations and showed it say, hairs here’s, how we’re being used right now, and it was very, very well received. The insights were kind of ah ha moments. So so what i recommend is start with some existing data stores and and sort of identify first what it is you think will be impactful and then showcasing take it around, say, hey, this is some insights. What do you think? And and if it doesn’t get enthusiasm either learned a lesson from it to say what’s more interesting or perk it, move on to something else. Okay. Okay. Test for value early. Yeah. All right. And in a small bit. Yeah. Small piece. Okay, awesome. Ah. All right. So then what? What? What’s, the next step in this you don’t change this culture. So let’s say we get some approval. Okay? This this is pretty stark and i can see some value. Um, otherwise the interview’s over. So we better remove this phone way. We’re not taking the park and move on to something else. Option forget move on. Yeah, what? Where do we go from here now? We with our test results. So where we’re going is an operational pilot and recalled an operation pilot, so because we’re adding a little more funding and setting the setting the goals of a little bit hyre but we’re also not in the same breath, not institutionalizing it yet. So we’re going to expand the number of data stories that we bring in on then here’s the other key, tony, is what we’re also going to do since the product and microsoft power b i again is the one we’re using. It is b is designed so for someone that’s in the line of business, the development department of marketing department, the program delivery, not the geeky tech person it’s not designed for that person is designed so that those that a former that i mentioned can learn how to use it. So we’re rolling out training at the same time, we’re going to take him through here’s how to use the tool and here’s the art of the possible, and let them loose and let them loose on the data, and also let them see, you know, some of the additional products, visualizations and, more importantly, the insight that comes out. We’ll let that run for a while. Say, you know, show us how it’s changed your ability to perform your mission. Okay? Yeah. And where are you in this process? So we finished the proof of concept on we go and let’s see january, late january or february on we look at it for a little bit and were actually just going to start up our operational pilot, which will be a six week effort with some some assistance. We’re gonna start that up in several weeks. So by this summer for april thirtieth. So okay, here a couple weeks away from taking the next step. Will spend about six weeks building it up, and then we’ll look at it for a bit. How do you figure out what what the data is? That is most important for the organization? Well, we’re starting with, you know, the the kp eyes that are most dahna most impactful and most important for insight and that’s a, uh, you know, that’s a that’s, quite frankly, a lift and shift of current reporting. Two more digitised on dh that’s sort of a stepping stone, because these with kp eyes that dahna that air that leadership needs teo, understand where we’re going and where we are, but again that’s ah that’s a stepping stone. So it’s also going to relieve some pain? Because, quite frankly, you know, the other way of doing the reporting takes a lot of time, and a lot of resource is, which is time and resource is to be better well spent by those down the chain of command that have to do all that every organization has that, but instead of we’re goingto automate that enhance it, enhance it, and let me touch another key point because what we can do that can’t be done as effectively as connect the dots across data silos for combined visualizations that tell amore comprehensive story, the whole organization, right, especially the sea level, is interested in that sea level. And we think every yes, but not just to sea level and again that’s a stepping stone, because what comes next and the rial golden ring is ah, and well, we will have accomplished a lot by that intermediate step, which is much more efficient, comprehensive reporting and visualization. But the real golden ring and the next step it is doing predictive analytics and being able, teo asked questions of the data by interacting with him. So there’s a k p i reporting this is the important stuff we need no for how the business is going that’s again, the next step and once it’s all in place and folks get comfortable with it, say, well, i could really ask some questions. You know what i haven’t thought about? Fill in the blank. You know how our current trend is from a predictive analytics perspective, our fund-raising is happening over time or what is the impact if we change these variables? You khun, you could do all of that once. You’re in the platform and uncomfortable. Okay? Got to take a break. Tell us i have a new tell us. Moughniyah lll. Lead quote. Lee elementary school foundation is receiving a monthly donation from tello’s for the credit card processing of a company one of our parents owns is likely the easiest donation source we have ever secured. End quote. A parent’s company. That’s. Brilliant local companies taking credit cards. Do you need more revenue? Get started at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us now back to be data driven with eli hurts. Let’s talk about the challenges of doing this. You brought him up earlier. I want to come back to it. Sure. Uh, what what? What should we expect? Yeah, well, there can be some and actually just came from aa good session, where we had this same discussion and with a group full of non-profits and it was it was really it was it was a really wonderful conversation. It became a conversation and of the same topic. And one of the challenges is that one of the non-profits brought up is hey, what if you know your shot in the light on something? That’s? That is kind of a hard story that, you know, has projects bad news where you have been visualized way have start asking questions. We may not always like the answer. You might not like the answer, and what we would suggest is that we shift the focus away from the who, which is can be a tendency if you see something responsible who’s responsible who hasn’t been doing their job who’s been falling short and and shift it more towards the what and what’s the impact on the on the mission than everybody circles around. You know, the conversation about how do we improve the mission based on what we learned, not who’s not been doing their job effective. So it’s changing the conversation based on the insights? Okay, so that that’s one is that the kind of fear three other has changed management? You know, i’ve been doing it this way for a long time, and this is what i was hired to do. So, like many classic change management problems or channel opportunities, it’s about education that can be circumvented with education and finding a few folks that were shown successes with him by doing it a different way with a different tool, shining the light on them and say, hey, this is an early adopter. Look what they were able to dio you could do something similar in your position will help you do that. You mean drawing on the early testing that you did well early? Six it continuing success is its a continual process. Let me give you a specific example. We did the proof of concept way showed the platform the possible everybody, not their head sea level, sweet like that. Others looked at it. Xero but can i do this to answer a question i need to do? And we identified one of those one of those this i really need to tell this toe understand this and tell this story better one just as i’m sure you know, when i tell say, tell the story, it’s obviously not about creating fiction, but it’s about painting the picture what’s going on, and so we identified that person who’s, not technologically savvy didn’t need to be we didn’t create it, so he needed to be that’s the point, and we’re helping him build something so that he can answer that question and expose. That so we could make better decisions. So we built on that success. This is, before we build out the operational pilot way found somebody else who has came to us because they heard about the success, the operational pilot or sort of proof of concept said, hey, i need another answer here. So, you know, we incrementally show successes, leverage some of these early adopters and their successes in trying to bring some skeptics along. Exactly okay, yeah, now the rial on dh so the following we haven’t accomplished yet, tony, i’ll just say that for what i’m about to say, but a study of change management and you’ve probably heard many of the folks you interview talk about it from and one of the best yeah, disciplines. I’ve been through his pro side change management certification encourage it for any non-profit listener is the best three days i’ve ever spent. Tell me again what it is a pro side p r o s c i change management three day certification class and it covers the breath of technology is what one piece of it it’s really about change management? Okay, but if you really but to go get to the next level. So some of things i’ve talked about or some sort of the classic change management techniques what’s, really a strong accelerator is to find a skeptic allowed skeptic on someone who’s yeah, so till happen, you know, if you’re not watching the video, you maybe i can tell i’m laughing. All right? So you probably last on somebody there? Well, i work for myself, but i have in the end, everybody got clients that whatever somebody who’s allowed skeptic, we’ll leave it at that. All right? Yeah, yeah. So every organization sufficient? Yeah. On dh who’s sort of maybe established will say yeah, so they have some credibility in the organization and they’re also established with the way they were used to doing things. If you make that person and advocate, they will amplify the successes to the same degree that they amplified their skepticism. Now that’s the breast, that’s, the it’s dueled brass ring. Yeah, back to your mary-jo exactly, but it’s it’s a it’s a huge accelerate an amplifier so it can be done. But instead of avoiding that skeptic, use um, empathic techniques understand why they’re they’re skeptical. Remember? Well, trying to embrace them train, embrace, understand what they need and then help them. And if they flip and you got maybe a fifty fifty chance i’ll be really but if and when they flip and then the rest the organization, by the way, everybody, when i said that they know who the organization skeptic is, right? Everybody knows so when the organisation sees a skeptic that’s a believer katie bar the doors everybody’s in, so okay. Okay, way exhausted the challenges. Well, one other, you know, is just learning the learning a new approach. It’s a different mindset. So, you know, that’s more, much more the emotional side of the psychological side of change in management. Well, you know, those pieces just address, but there’s also some some, you know, functional skills. Oh, the skills. Yes, you get skillsets the mindset skillsets so i spoke to a willingness to take on new skill and the ability. So it’s it’s a different way of operating it’s about, you know, the science behind data science is about exploring and experimenting and asking questions and telling a story. Eso again, a lot of us, you know, and many parts organizations say, hey, bill, be a report that shows nothing fund-raising how much you know how many impressions were on the website or whatever? How many times are programmers using a report? You know, it’s more of a diagnostic or reporting this is what happened? And they say, here’s, what happened? But what this cannon and get to with a different skill set is ask some questions on dh, interact with it, tio, connect the dots, teo answer answer, tell the story of what’s really going on versus saying what? What happened? Okay, eli, i want to talk about some of the tools that way because we just have a couple minutes left, okay? Uh, tools that can help with this with this process, yeah, yeah. So one i wrote, we use and and we’re having very good success with it is microsoft power b i mentioned and that’s the primary one now the other is, you know, the benefit of it is the tool is it can integrate and interact with the data wherever it is, so you don’t have to create something new, leave it in place and integrated. There are a few, you know, competitors in the place in the in the space. That’s the one we’re getting no success, we’ve put a lot of our operational data and a sales force back end, which we built up for several reasons and integrating it in on dh and again, others and data in place. So those those are some of the primary ones the sales force haven’t add on for this kind of data introspection, they do, they do they call it einstein analytics, einstein yeah, and sales force just recently, we’re recording this in april of twenty eighteen they just recently perp made a purchase of another integration product called mulesoft so they’re going to integrate that product so that in their analytics engine they can pull in other data sources, which is really important fan letters because a lot of systems have been built up as here’s, my tool or data set based on what’s happening in this piece of the process and really to tell the comprehensive picture is about connecting the dots so you won’t be able to pull in from several sources. So salesforce’s getting has that capability and einstein analytics with mulesoft added tio okay, we have just about a minute or so left and i want to ask you what is it? You know, vice president of information technology. Yeah, yeah. What is it you love about the work you do? Oh, great question. Thanks for asking. People don’t think about it. It is a lovable, lovable office toe working, let alone lead. Yeah there’s a little maytag repairman have the successive nobody’s angry, right? Yeah, when i really like about is we’re rolling out capabilities that are that are making a everybody’s every employee’s job better, more effective cut across the hall organise a cross organization and we feel that we can make them more efficient by either the systems where the insights they get that gives lifts to the entire organization. We’re also changing the way we’re we’re interact with our constituents or service members were rolled out a mobile app. Recently go the apple or google play and download the usl app it’s really gratifying to know that weekend engage with our customers in away reach him where they are dahna but really it all rolls back to we can make the mission more effective, and if we can save a dollar while we’re doing it and then as a non-profit we’re serving. Our service members are constituents more effectively and that’s. Gratifying. Are you a vet? I am. Yeah, i am too. Well, thank you for your support. Thank you. You thank me. First what service? I was in the navy about you turning air force air force. Okay. We so we should have a little rivalry going on here. Very friendly, though. Of course. Eli hurts. He’s, the vice president of information technology for united service organizations uso this interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you very much. Thank you. To you know pleasure. Thanks. Thanks. And this is twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. Thank you so much for being with us next week. Change agents on your board and more from the non-profit technology conference. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and tell us credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream. Durney dahna slash tony tell us. Ah, creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Show social media is by susan chavez, and this very cool music is by scott stein. We will be next week for non-profit radio. 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Nonprofit Radio for June 13, 2014: Online Canadian Connection & Right To Be Forgotten

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Holly Wagg & Jason Shim: Online Canadian Connection

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Two fundraising Canucks share online strategies from above the 49th parallel for small-and mid-size shops, including an explanation of accepting bitcoin donations. Holly Wagg is philanthropic counsel for Good Works and Jason Shim is digital media manager at Pathways to Education Canada. We talked at the Nonprofit Technology Conference. df




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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I got to give a shout out to our listener of the week lynette singleton she’s our very first listener of the week when that is in atlanta, georgia, on twitter she’s at s c g number four non-profits she’s been a longtime supporter of the show, frequent re tweeter and live tweeter of the show just a very, very good friend and we’re very grateful and that’s why i say thank you very much, lynette, and congratulations being our first listener of the week, i’m glad you’re with me i’d be forced to endure the pain of dermatitis her peta for mus if i had heard that you had missed today’s show online canadian connection two fund-raising canucks share online strategies from above the forty ninth parallel for small and midsize shops, including an explanation of accepting bitcoin donations. Holly wagh is philanthropic counsel for good works, and jason shim is digital media manager at pathways to education canada. We talked at the non-profit technology conference and right to be forgotten. Maria simple is paying attention to a european court of justice opinion that google must remove outdated links from search results what’s the impact on your prospect research maria is our prospect research contributor and the prospect find her on tony’s take to a new non-profit radio knowledge base on your board relationship. We’re sponsored by generosity, siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks very appreciative of there support here’s my interview from the nonstop non-profit technology conference on online e-giving welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen and t c we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c on with me is jason shim, who is digital media manager for pathways to education canada and holly wag philanthropic counsel for good works there. Their workshop topic is the canadian connection. What you can learn about fund-raising from people who wear two cc’s howie! Jason, welcome thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. That’s a pleasure. Thank you. Ah, did you, uh, did you feel that canada doesn’t get the sufficient representative rebel representation that you had toe explicitly create? A workshop called learned from us above the forty ninth parallel i would say so. You get short shrift, or do you think so? Yeah, i would totally say. So. We also thought that americans should know what tuks are and that’s a really important cultural piece of education. Okay, tuks are the word is spelled t o qu es correct. What i’ll gonna jason, why don’t you explain what it is? A two is a canadian winter. A traditional canadian winter hats. What do they look like? They look like all sorts of things. Like so some of them, you know, they just have you pull it down, and some of them may have labs. Someone may have, like, prom phones, but generally it’s the just pull over there, knitted generally. Okay, so right. So they’re in place of a hood. I’m seeing those in new york city. I’m seeing a fair number of two. Cc’s. I saw one adorable one had little ears little for years. Um, so it took so it’s the difference between america, some places that would be for style and arthur definitely for survival. Okay. And where each of you from in canada? I’m from toronto right now. Okay? And i’m from ottawa latto and what? Will toronto is ontario, and ottawa is also ontario. Is it? And what else is otto? What do you know? What else is ottawa? The capital of canada. And see now you know why the caged ian’s air at t c all right? Yeah. I was thinking of auto manufacturing. So is auto and auto manufacturing center. No total government city. Forty percent of our population are government employees were learning. But i took sinew. But the capital. I did not. Okay, what can we learn? So you each work for non-profits pathways to education canada and good works. And you have some lessons you can share for those of us down south here. Who wants to go first? I’ll leave it to you. You want me to go first? Okay, so i’m not holding good works is actually i’m fund-raising consultant now on s oh, no, no that’s. That’s not a problem s o we work with a variety of not-for-profits across the country we work with, like national healthcare, charities, international charities. We also work with local hospital foundations or social services on and when i came away from end ten last year i was really aware of what all these cool things that other americans were doing on day would say it didn’t work and i’m like, but what are you talking about? Like in canada? That’s actually really good. So for example, i heard a lot of people dissing the phone and saying, you know, telemarketing doesn’t work or we’re not getting the good numbers or don’t invest there, and it got me to thinking, you know, some of differences between canadian american fund-raising on there definitely is in the direct mail market how we do our asks and how we structures are letters like canadians or just a little bit more polite and less forthright and asking for money, but it was amazing to me going back to the phone to see that i could acquire online donors, and i’m seeing on the phone, you know, five to ten percent conversion rates, which nobody else was seeing here, so the question is, if the phone about tool or you just hiring a bad vendor, you know, okay, okay, jason yeah, and i worked for pathways education canada and we’re an organization that focuses on lowering the drop of a great among youth who are living. In economic fear, just advantaged areas, and so is the high school dropout rate. Yes, do you have a you have equivalent is a high school and then and then hyre ed same thing in the states goes ninety nine to twelve and then college or university afterwards, okay? And i was finding that, you know, when i was doing presentations focused on youth and talking about the technology, adoption and things that, you know, the numbers that we’re seeing in the u s were lower compared to canada and historically, you know, for adoption, for things like facebook bonem that the adoption rate among youth has been quite a bit higher and, you know, i i don’t know if it’s because, you know, we’re just more spread out and we use more, you know, technology to connect with one another, like just pure speculation on my part, but in terms of numbers wise, like, you know, technology facebook, adoption among youth was, you know, in the upper ninety percent where is at the time of the u s it was closer, you know, but the eighty eight percent among high school students, so that also influences how, you know we do our work in that, you know, it’s way have to be on facebook to interact with her youth, and but it also is much more readily apparent when making policy and trying to convince people. But, you know, facebook is the way to go when dealing with youth and but it’s neat because, you know, we’re able to run these projects that essentially it’s, where the u s may be on some technological respects and, you know, three or four years, and we could just, you know, everyone heads up because, you know, generally what has happened? Dahna technology round, you know, ends up happening in the us a few years later in terms of the adoption related kind of things really? Is that how you see trends go? I think so. I mean, ghoul recently had a program called google partners that was geared towards our advertisers, and they’re they’re pilot audience essentially was in canada, and i mean, it makes sense because it’s a it’s a small like relative to the population of some entire states, i mean, you know, population in canada thirty five million, thirty five million, yeah, yeah, that provided a place where you know, they could test it out and make sure that the communities where, you know well serviced and that people could provide feedback, and they made sure that everything worked for the canadians before they released it to all of the us audience as well. And i mean, from a non-profit perspective, i mean, it’s not like you can necessarily, you know, copilot non-profit projects in canada before deploying them to the u s but i think when looking at broader technology trends and how some canadian non-profits have adapted to things that you know, there’s, some can be some lessons i could be running from the canadian border. Okay, we’re going. We’re going talk in detail about what those lessons are, uh, i’m learning here thirty, thirty five million in in in the entire country, and then it’s about the population of california way actually going to research that tonight. That’s good baby, i was laughing because i’m speaking this afternoon on a different topic about email and one of the panellists i was speaking with those original supposed to be danny boo from the american cancer society, and so he was talking about the size of his list on dh he said it was around fifteen million people, and i started laughing and i was like, you’re half my country that’s actually, probably like the eligible age of everybody you can actually donate over. Teo was like, wow, like, you know, so when were also coming here, you know, you’ve come to this conference, a lot of the people who were presenting are often from really big organizations who are really well resourced, and so i thought it was really interesting that our definition of a small or a medium not-for-profits and for the purposes of our thing, we were kind of saying, like under five hundred thousand dollars annually and fund-raising revenue you’d be small and between five hundred thousand and two, point, five million being medium, but i don’t know if many organizations here if i settle this organization’s raising two point one million through their entire fund-raising program, they would probably be like that’s really small but it’s, not necessarily in canada. Yeah, well, be careful now in in the u s i’m pretty sure it’s just around fifty percent of the of the non-profits i think like fifty one percent have have have annual budgets of under fifty thousand dollars, so yeah, so it’s like that on our audience here non-profit radio is all small and midsize shops, i know that i’m not talking to, and i don’t produce the show for stanford university or hyre a memorial stone kettering hospital or, you know, any of these huge organization’s, although i do think they could benefit but there’s their lives, they’re missing out, i can’t reform them oppcoll but yeah, the vast majority of non-profits are small by your definition, and i’m pretty sure it’s, like fifty one percent have budgets, annual budgets under fifty thousand dollars that’s, that’s, crazy there’s, about eighty five thousand charities in canada and half of those are don’t even have a staff member like they’re all entirely volunteer driven. So even the context that we’re talking about, we’re guaranteeing at least, that these people have one staff member or at least organized enough to have some sort of fund-raising program of some, you’re not really very aware of what’s happening in the u s do you know the u s capitol? I’m in it, thank goodness, but i didn’t know about the mall because everybody kept on talking about the mall. You figured shopping? Yeah, i was like, why? Whatever. You want to come to the mall. And then i realized it was not about a shopping center. Embarrassing, but okay. All right. Um, well, holly let’s. Stay with u and s o your old working your each working either in a small, small, mid sized organization, jason or supporting them as a consultant. Holly okay, so what are some of the technology lessons that we can bring from from above? I think one of my favorite lessons because our agency tends to we have a direct mail history. So one of the reasons why i was hired is toe build the digital size of our business. Digital side of our business on dh what’s amazing to me is nobody that i work with. Has anything that’s integrated or even a comprehends of systems approach to, like, capture their data or even an email program? So i’m really struggling with organizations who know that they need to. Aye. Like, say, for example, i need tohave an email program. I need to be able to get people to sign up on my website. So part of what we do is teaching them on coaching or executing it for them, depending what the scope of work is. But all a lot of it is, is change management and culture management within organizations like a hospital foundation, you know, didn’t didn’t didn’t dick dude e-giving dink, dink, dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz waiting to get you thinking. Dahna good this’s, the cook said about sonya wear hosting, part of my french new york city. Guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes and desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us. Pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. And let’s let’s work within an example of ah client that you know, unattributed, but how not not just what you did, not just how you help them generally, but how you help specifically and what the lessons khun b for small and midsize shows here, one of one of the clients that i’ve worked with and they will see which i think is an awesome case study is that they’ve only had a gn online program, and all that online program really evolves around is email nothing else on dso they for the first time, we’ll see probably this year they’re online revenue surpassed their direct mail revenue and their direct mail revenue was pretty healthy to begin with on and some of the lessons when i came in was being ableto, for example, we have a big bulk list of people, but we had no idea who was actually honor email list. We didn’t know where they came from. We didn’t know if they were donors, if they were supporters, what kind of information? And so one of my first techniques is sort of to go in, you have to find out what information is of value to your supporters have to find out, you know, where they’re coming from, what they want. So we’ll work with our charities to really understand who their donors are on one of the things that were really big on his storytelling works exceptionally well. Let’s talk about that. Yeah, on dh. So we will help our clients find a story that will resonate with donors and then translate that and help them tell that story in an email. Mediums. So how do you how do you pick the right stories? Um, i used the very unscientific i will use a shiver that or the cry test. So if i read a story or zoho shiver a shiver castro, i got okay, but so if i hear of a story that stops and makes me pause and makes you feel like it punches me in the gut, then i know that that is the absolute right story for me. And so, you know, part of you know, sometimes i’m talking to the person to get the story. Sometimes i’m developing it, you know, off paper on dh. So for me, it’s getting teaching not-for-profits how to write a good story in an email andi think storytelling ski, but i also think regular communications is something that small not-for-profits really struggle with their, like all these big organizations, they say they send out, you know, thirty emails or, you know, five emails a month, and i we start planning out a schedule so that they don’t all get bulk dough, but like let’s say, we’re going to do one email a month and it’s just going to be telling about something in your organization that’s really important. So for example, one of the organizations i volunteer with his cold on the ten oaks project to me run summer camps for kids who have clear parent, and so we were never telling any of our donors what we were doing with their money. And so this year we have a plan series of six stories that we captured and sometimes their campers we’re talking about, you know, one girl i just finished writing her story. Her name is bernadette, and she talked about the moment when she was at school, and she found out that her friends had passed around a petition asking her to be kicked out of the girl’s changer during visit. Because her parents were gay and they presume that she was going to be making, you know, sexual passes at her. I mean, how did that story not kick you in the gut? Right? To feel like this kid, who at that time was in grade seven. This is a bunch of kids doing it, a bunch of kids and her finding out. And so really talking about the rule that this organisation has played in transforming and building her self confidence and her self esteem and, you know, helping her to successfully girl been building this community appears so for us in that organization, we’ve decided every other month we tell one of those stories so their camper stories, their family stories, their volunteer and the commonality between all of them is that look, you just got on your face. Tony was getting kicked out by your peers because it really people understand why they’re giving to this they they were there themselves. They can relate to that somewhere. They know that that’s a really important issue on dso. My job with everyone we work is to find that kind of moment until it well, that’s just remarkable kids. Becoming so bigoted at that age, kids becoming bigoted, period? Yeah, it’s horrific. And this is candy, and this is canada and we pride ourselves, you know, on diversity and tolerance. So i can’t even imagine what would happen in places that, you know aren’t as progressive is so finding that compelling story, how do you encourage the story? Teller? Teo, teo, open up. Maybe you hear about the story from program staff, for instance, some some of the way how do you induce the person teo to share personally? Well, actually, surprisingly, the best way to interview someone is over the phone, and you wouldn’t necessarily think that, but because of that little bit of distance between you and the person on, they often just open up and it’s, taking them through a journey through their questions and ask, and you should always, when you’re interviewing, someone asked the kind of leading questions if they’re not giving you what you want. But, you know, you ask him about a situation and you say, tell me how that that make you feel if they’re describing a situation, tell me what it sounded like. Tell me what it smelt likes you. Know, and you really want to get into the sensory processes when you’re interviewing that person, and sometimes a person will just go when they will tell you a story it’s and it’s an hour, and it’ll be your job to cut it back. I mean, sometimes it’s making them really comfortable in making points of identification i’m with them. And the skill i think that you develop as a fundraiser over time is that people actually tell me really everything, like, really candid because i’m a very honest and open person, and i think that relates through and they’re really comfortable being transparent with me. So it’s kind of a gift, you know, you might be a really good fundraiser of you have a natural gift for having people disclose very personal things. Teo the your advice about interviewing people on the phone reminds me of terry gross who’s who’s, the host of ah national public radio show fresh air. Yeah, she insists that her guests not not being the studio with her, they’re always remote and not just in another room, but they’re in other cities she doesn’t want them doesn’t want doesn’t want me looking at them. She feels she gets a better connection, just just having their voice in her in her head and same for them, exactly it’s unusual. But it works for it works perfectly well for her, but it’s not because eighty percent of communication is nonverbal and so all of the body language, all of the facial discomfort. Maybe if somebody’s telling you something that upsets you, none of that translates through. All you have to do is control your voice with absolutely no judgment is there, you know, sharing these really important, transformational woman’s that your cause or your organization has had in your life and there’s really nothing more beautiful or privilege to get to talk to these people who talk about how x organization helped their wife die or to talk about how they were able to get a mastectomy and then an immediate breast reconstruction at a hospital because of a piece of equipment that donors have purchased, how, you know, they were able to be get refugee status and come to canada about how they donated a kidney meat there, brother so he could live it’s a privilege to be able to hear those stories jason on the education side what uh, what can we learn from from above? Well, ah project that i was working on last year with the implementation of bitcoin donations at our non-profit and you know, within the non-profits unit is across north america are are indeed all around the world is quite unique because, you know, it’s, something that i cz perceived to be requires a lot of technical implementation, but it was actually quite straightforward, but it was further supplemented by the fact that the canadian government issued very quickly after bitcoin came out an advisor treyz saying, hey, this is how we deal with the tax implications of, you know, the coin and currency and you know, that provided guidance for people to start implementing it within the organizations and things. So in november, we became the first organization in canada to issue tax receipts for bitcoin donations, and i would like to go as far to say that, you know, the first organization in north america is your tax receipts have yet to find us organization that issues before we go much further, which we do have time for, but we better acquaint listeners with what bitcoin is. All about, i think a lot of people have heard of it. Very few people use it let’s, let’s flush that out for people and how you get it and it translates into real money because i still don’t really know. Yeah, okay, how does it translate to real mentor? So please tell us the story, but what bitcoins about so in a nutshell, bitcoin is on online crypto currency that so i use the analogy of imagine if you had to give someone who lived on the other side of the country off five dollars. Now, the options that may be available to you is you could mail that five dollars, to them. You could maybe send them a bank transfer. You could send it to them via paypal oppcoll, with the exception of emailing on an actual five dollar bill, requires central authority. So, you know, you would with your bank, you would say, you know, minus jason five dollars, plus tony five dollars, and that the bank would be in control of that for you. No papal would do the same thing part of their central ledger, but imagine a system similar to the internet where it’s peer-to-peer and no one actually has direct control as to whether or not the transaction goes through that it is the closest thing to cash that is electronically available, so if i want to send you five dollars there’s, no one in between that could stop that transaction that it’s as good as me giving you the cash there’s no government agency or organization or company that could say that could block the transaction, which is the system that currently exists now. It’s it’s, quite a revolutionary concept similar to the internet in which, you know dahna for the internet, you know, people accessing, like bulletin board zsystems that you’re dialing into a central server and, you know, people close messages, but if someone doesn’t like you being there, they could kick you out, but the magic of the internet being that anyone can communicate with anyone else in the world and, you know, if people you know, i can’t say that, you know, this piece of data is in venturing my country like you know of these what the ideas of ideals of net neutrality, um, so imagine that applied to a financial system on it’s, quite a revolutionary. Concept that, you know you could i’ll be sending, you know, large sums of money what i actually transferring what do what do you get if what do i get when you’re giving me this five dollars? What do i see? You would see just a whole bunch of code s o it bitcoin is transferred to what’s called wallets and these air usually expressed in q r code. So you would you would get a wallet that would essentially be a cure for that people could deposit. And of course, the q r codes those little black and white diagrams that that air scannable and lead to lead to websites. Yeah, okay. And if if you wanted teo hyre generates bitcoin so that this is something that’s created by the network. So every every computer that is part of the bitcoin network is actually helping facilitate these transactions in return for helping facilitate these transactions, and being the network that bitcoin in a program or algorithm itself will give those computers that are transferring everything like small bits of bitcoin. So it’s sort of like an incentive system two to keep the network flowing and everything and it’s it’s designed in such a way that you can’t just, like, manufacture more money like, you know, just you can just print more bitcoin or create more bitcoin. It’s it’s not a preset rate that you know it’s tributes at a set amount and that can only ever be like twenty one million bitcoin in the system. And yeah, okay, wait, i do have a couple questions, but we don’t really have time to go into any more details about bitcoin. We’ll have to have to leave it there. I’m sorry listeners about bitcoin buy-in because we want to get the technology lessons from jason. All right, so now we have some grounding in bitcoin let’s get to the your take away that u s o show in terms of implementation. I mean, this is a technology like we we chose to pursue it because the canadian government itself through the world canadian mint, they’ve been working on a project called the midship. Now this is a government backed project that’s what they are pursuing digital currency. So imagine the way that they’ve structure is, you know, the ideal science fiction ideal of you top two cards together and you can transfer the money straight there. So there’s no such thing anymore is like five dollar bills, a ten dollar bills that you know you could just touch the two tarts cards together and it’s just a currency transfer. No bank in between to to do that. And when we look ahead, i think one of the absolutes will be like currency will change. I think they’re that’s the way that things will be moving, like in terms of wave moving from cash systems to electronic systems. You know, like things like papale, this is the next natural evolution of currency transfer. So whether it was bitcoin or anything else, you know, that was the rational that we used to it to pursue it because the canadian government already exploring digital currency. So bitcoin came out, which seems to be a global kind of currency. So why not pursue it? So we went through the process of implementing it was actually quite straightforward men there’s a there’s, a great fund online actually goldenburg point one hundred and it’s ah, a fund that was developed by early between adopters. And they put a whole bunch of bitcoin into a wallet, and i think they started off something like over a hundred thousand dollars, and they said if a non-profit eyes interested in exploiting bitcoin and implements that further non-profit and puts the q r code on the web site, we’ll just give me a thousand dollars oh, and it’s the simplest thousand dollars that i think the organization has ever received, like you just let him know that hey, we’re accepting bitcoin and no grand proposal, they just sent the thousand dollars and be like, okay, well, have a nice day. I was like, oh, do you want to follow up on that and he’s like, no, just the best thing you could do for me is help me get rid of this fund. The money is going faster than i can spend it, like, serve your ideal philanthropy, right? But this’s only available to canadian no non-profits the gentleman’s actually based out of maryland inside dimitri and he he runs the final target. He’s he’s access a community trustee for this funds that was built around an online forum. So you know, he’s charged with distributing on how can we find him just google bitcoin one hundred and believe the website is bitcoin one hundred dahna allergy? I just let him know that you’re interested in getting the thousand dollars and you know, you should follow-up okay, that’s actually an excellent takeaway, because now we have a site we could go to weaken, learn more about bitcoin and the possibility of accepting it and, of course, bigger takeaway being the transformation. What i was thinking, yeah, there’s a thousand dollars. But i was thinking of the thinking well, brother ali, that there’s a little more profound thought that jason had dahna which was the transformation of currency, and i think that’s, you know, that’s where it will happen. I can’t say what the timeline will be. Five years, ten years, flying cars, digital currency, grandchildren yeah, those are excellent. All right, two very good lessons and think things to think about. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having us. My pleasure. Thanks. You’re welcome. Jason. Jason shim is a digital media manager for pathways to education canada and holly. Wag philanthropic counsel for the consulting firm. Good works. I want thank you very much again. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage. Of the non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fourteen, thanks so much for being with us. Thank you very much and ten and and t c generosity, siri’s, sponsor’s non-profit radio and they helped me make it. They helped make get possible for me to go to conferences like ntc and to get valuable info for you from interviews like that, general city siri’s hosts multi charity peer-to-peer runs and walks you know them? You’ve heard me talk about them if you’re thinking about including a run or a walk in your fund-raising i asked you to check them out as a possible provider. Tell dave lynn that you’re from non-profit radio he’s the c o o you could reach dave lynn at seven one eight five o six nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com many thanks to them for their support of non-profit radio i have a new non-profit radio knowledge base, this one is on your board relationship. I know that lots of charities are struggling with their relationship with boards and board members. Just yesterday i had lunch with a ceo and a boardmember who were sharing their frustrations with there underperforming board, i’ve got links to non-profit radio interviews on getting the best out of your trustees. There’s a panel of three women who work in non-profits talking about that building a more effective board with gail gifford working with your small organization board. That was another panel board, a six with jean takagi and a couple of other links also all about your relationship with your board and getting the most out of your board. The video and the links are at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, thirteenth of june twenty fourth show of twenty fourteen you know maria simple she’s, the prospect finder, she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com, and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now exclamation mark she’s, our doi n of dirt cheap and free you follow-up maria on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria, good to talk to you. Good to talk to you. Thank you very much. You’re not going to say glad to be here or anything. Well, i am glad to be here, actually and it’s in my summer month and i’m always happy in the summer. So this is a good thing, excellent, and even happier on non-profit radio day, right? Absolutely. Now that i ve pimped you twice and you have no choice but to say yes. And i’m happy about everything. We’re talking about the right to be forgotten. This came from a spaniard who brought a case in the european court of justice. Yes. So, you know, i thought it was very interesting and i was wondering, you know, there might not be immediate applications for prospect researchers in the united states, but you know it. It got me to thinking what implications this might have five or ten years down the line in terms of information that might end up getting erased from google searches. Um, and it just got me to wondering, you know how how we have to maybe cross check data in other places, especially going forward? If if we’re going to start seeing data, you know, becoming race could it could even be more imminent than five or ten years? I think. Very well could be. You know, right now, um, one of the one of the steps that i had seen was that over forty one thousand europeans have actually asked through this online form that google has created to be for gotten so they want mention of themselves erased off of google search results. And that huge let’s set the scene in case everyone hasn’t heard of this. This was ah man in spain who brought a case to the european court of justice because there were links in searches of his name is just searching his name. There were links to old events that he thought were no longer relevant, right? It has to do with a realist state auction that was held, teo, settle some of what they call social security debts, whatever that meant. But he was, you know, not happy that that was still out there because he felt that the debts have been settled and so forth. And so he petitioned through this, uh, europe europe’s top court, which is the court of justice of the european union, i guess it’s somewhat similar to our supreme court and petitioned. And it was ruled in his favor that yes, google is going to have to comply. So of course, if google’s going tohave to comply, you have to think that the other major search engines like yahoo and microsoft being will also have to do the same and to comply. Google came up with this online form. I don’t know if you don’t know how you go directly to the form, i guess you can just search it. I think i ended up finding a link in one of the articles led me directly to the form and it’s pretty interesting because you actually have to select from a drop down menu one of the thirty two countries that are listed that you would reside in. You do need to provide some sort of a photo id, uh, so that i guess, you know, if you’re trying to get maybe say, a competitors, you know, information swipes or something like that, they want to make sure that yes, you are you’re the person and it’s information about you, etcetera, and so there are, you know, there’s certain things that you do need to do in order to comply, to get it to get the data removed, but they really think it’s going to be a very long time before google can’t even get through all of these. Requests. And right now it on ly pertains to the european union, as you said, the thirty two countries so this does not apply teo u s residents, but it could there’s potential that someone could bring a similar action on dh similarly succeed in the us i’m not i would not put it past somebody to come up with that idea, having read, you know, all the press that there is available out there about this particular ruling in europe. One thing that i didn’t realize i mean, i just thought that you go to google dot com and that’s just the one place to do research the devil, evidently there’s a google dot ceo dot uk, which is, i guess, the european equivalent of google’s search engine, so i think what they’re from my understanding of what i’ve read is that it’s going toe wife clean the search results that you would find on the european search engine and maybe not necessarily google dot com again, it’s also new and all such a grey area and google themselves trying to figure out how they’re going to end up complying with this whole thing. The implications than for prospect. Research are becoming apparent as we’re talking. You might not find everything that you’d like to find on someone, right? Right? And, you know, i can give you an example. Tony, of a search i was doing a number of years back, i was probably about ten years ago, i was doing some donorsearch research actually, i was just doing research. I wasn’t sure that this person was actually considered a donor prospect or not, because sometimes i’m doing the research because there’s, considering having this person as a high profile boardmember and so i’m doing the research, and i kept coming up with this a person’s name connected to corporate insider trading. So the bad kind of insider trading and at first i dismissed it because i thought, well, maybe it’s just the same name? Um, but then i came across one article that actually did link the person to the insider trading and linked to the person to current employment situation. So then i knew this was indeed the prospect, so i came i had a dilemma because right, if i put this information into a written profile, then, uh, any donor and he don’t prospect really has the right to walk into your organization and say, show me what information you’ve compiled on may i want to see my donor record on. And so i really had this dilemma, and i thought, well, what do i do with this information? So i decided to call the person who had hired me to do the research, and i asked, why are you having me do this research on this individual? Is it for a simple donation, or is there something more to this? And she said, oh, there’s a lot more to it. We are considering bringing him on the board, and our board chair thinks he would make a great treasurer for organization. Oh, my. So that was you know, i thought. Okay, well, red flag. So i decided to verbally give the information that i had found. I mentioned that the person had paid their fine had done their time. It was well in their past. But i did feel that the executive director didn’t need to know that this existed. Now why? This is really interesting dilemma. But why? Just verbally? Why? I mean, if if it’s bonified and you had confirmed it, why not? Put it in the written prospekt reports, well, we discussed that i told her that i would i don’t like to put information into a written profile that would potentially sever our relationship with somebody, and it could, you know, it was a potentially great relationship that could that could have existed. Um, so i did not want to eliminate that possibility for her if if he’d read this and said, well, you know, this was dug up on me and, you know, i’m uncomfortable with this, and i’m walking away from this organization hey, you know, clearly it was in his past, everything had, you know, all fine has been paid, and as i said on time, his concert, i just felt that it could end up, um, severing the relationship ultimately, and i didn’t want to several relationship before it even began, since they’re you know they’re may not have been any issues in the future. I just told her to tread carefully. You always have in the back of your mind what the donor or dahna prospect might think if they were to read this in the organizations report that you had written, yeah, it was absolutely there was the same reason i don’t like to delve into divorce records. Yeah, well, now i can see how that wouldn’t belong, but alright, it’s, just interesting. You always have this in mind that what would happen if the person were to read this about themselves in the organ in the organization’s files are always thinking away. Okay, interesting. And what what happened in that case? Did they end up inviting the person to be on the board? Do you know, or did they not? They did. They ultimately did, but i don’t think they put him in a treasurer position immediately. You know, i’m not sure down the line if that ended up coming to fruition, but it was certainly at least something that the executive director needed to be aware of. Excellent. Okay, excellent story. Thank you. Um, this all, you know sort of brings up also the the potential, the discretion, really, that google is goingto have and other search engines as they have to comply with this. The way i read the description i read, i didn’t read the court’s decision itself, but the description i read was that, you know, there’s some vague description or vague direction about, um, what google should consider inappropriate and what not, but but but nothing’s very, very specific. And so that leaves a lot of discretion for google as to whether something like what you described still belongs. I mean, it still could be very relevant, even though it’s in the past, you know, i mean, history is all in the past, we we were studying history all the time. So just because something is in the past google and detrimental to the person, google could still very well determine that that that belongs under that person’s search results, right? So now people are wondering, you know, it’s a matter of fact, i read an article that was in a may fifteenth edition of yusa today where, you know, they talked about, you know, that the court basically is here is blaming the messenger and, you know, this person had this, you know, situations in their path, google was simply giving you access to the information, and you know it e if if reputations can now be somehow, you know, as they’re calling it in this article, airbrushed on demand, right, you know, you’re going to have to think about, you know, well, it’s people who have done things, you know, maybe doctors who have botched surgeries and you just think about the implications of all the types of people that would be thinking about having this this shady past erased there’s just a scary amount of discretion that google has because the past is still relevant, but maybe some things are irrelevant howto how do you decide what’s relevant to other people and what’s not the other? The other very interesting thing about this is the information isn’t going away it’s not going to be removed from the internet if that’s even possible it’s just going to be removed from a search result with that from of that person’s name. So there really is a matter of fact, the very newspaper articles that this spaniard, you know, was it sat about still exist on the internet, more people have probably read the articles now than otherwise would have ever read them if he hadn’t brought to court. Um and so the articles still exists. It’s just getting to the articles by searching on this individual’s name is something that has been or will be very soon i’m not sure if it was removed or not, but i think it may be it wass at this point, but, you know, is you. Yeah, data is probably still going to exist. But as a prospect researcher, your main starting point is always with a person’s name. That’s. Why? I was wondering how this was really going to affect donorsearch research. I mean, we have a lot of institutions. Buy-in particularly hyre ed, that do their research. Donors who reside in europe, right. So you’ve got people who come to this country for their education on they go back or people who started, you know, as a u s citizen and are now living is expats in another country, so you know the borders being as fluid as they are. You can imagine, i know, maybe a very small social service organisation non-profit might not be in that situation as they’re researching their donors, because for the most part, they’re serving a geographic region and their donors come from that very small, smaller pool of people. But larger organizations that serve that our international and it doesn’t even have to be hyre ed, imagine the wise of the world or united ways we have to go out for a break. When we come back, marie and i are going to keep talking about this, and we’re gonna move teo, subject of the donors right to privacy and the code of ethics around around prospect research. So stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively clamber station top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. And i’m tony martignetti and with me is maria simple, the prospect finder, maria appa ra, the association of prospect researchers for advancement, they have something to say about donorsearch they dio there, they actually on their web site a statement of ethics, and i’d be glad to provide that link to your tear listeners. Tony on your facebook page, okay, we’ll put that after the takeaways. Yes, yeah, sure. And so the main pages apra home dot org’s a pr, a home dot org’s and so there, you know, that is the association that most professional prospect researchers would align with and rely on for their professional development. So there is a statement of ethics that the opera has and, you know, accountability and practice as well. I mean, i’m looking at one specific line that they have in their code of ethics around practice. It says that, you know, they shall on ly record data that is appropriate to the fund-raising process and protect the confidentiality of all personal information at all times dahna so, you know, they take donor-centric mation is safeguarded at their organizations password protect the software, for example, making sure that only people who need access to that information are going to get the access to the information. Well, let’s, go back to this donor. The confidentiality. I mean, how do you protect the person’s confidentiality when your task is to prepare research about the person? I mean, at the top of the page is the person’s name and, um the pages are loaded with stuff about the person. How do you how do they balance what they mean their protect confidentiality? So you want to make sure that on ly the people who need access to this information to advance fund-raising are going to have access to the information. First of all, the information is all derived from publicly available sources, right? So google obviously is one of those publicly available sources that we get information from. We’ve talked about hundreds of those on the show. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so what? You go to a lot of different sources to gather the information and bring it all together? The role of the prospect researcher is, too. Take all of that information, wade through it and come up with a concise profile. Most of the time, the information is is going to be embedded right into the donor record because then you can pull the reports, you know, as you need in the donor software, when i’m preparing the profiles, i just do it in a word document so that they can easily cut and paste the information and if if if, need be into their at their end. Obviously, i don’t have access to donor software that my clients are using, so you want to be sensitive to then who you’re emailing these two i don’t mean you as the prospect. Well, i don’t mean you personally, but the prospect researcher and they may very well in a smaller midsize shop not even be devoted to prospect research, so that let’s say, right, the person doing this research on donors and potential donors, you want to be very conscious of who you’re emailing these reports, too, right? As who has access to the to the next two folders where these prospekt reports are stored? Yes, absolutely mn it, and then you can imagine a situation where you get your development committee together and you’re doing perhaps some sort of peer review sessions so you might have printed profiles or data pieces of data pertaining to these individuals on the table, you know, every every development office really should have a good shredder in the office, and i would really encourage people not to allow boardmember sze some other volunteers involved in the development process tow, walk out with hard copies because you just don’t want this information, you know, floating around out there that’s very good admonition caution? Yeah, that that where the hard copies go and then they end up in the person’s office or home or something. Yeah, right? Yeah. Okay, talking about shredders, you know, i can’t stand seeing those shredders where it’s like quarter inch strips like a four year old could put those back together if if they wanted to there’s quarter inch long strips. I mean, you should get at least cross cut, if not the not the ones that make those little little paper tiny bullets, which you’re supposed to be impossible to put back together, right? And there are companies that you can hyre depending on how much you really have to shred, there are companies that you can you can hire to do shredding. I think that even in local companies like u p s stores. They have shredders located within those facilities, maybe even staples. I’m not sure i know ups does, but, you know, there are places that you can go then and taken have it securely shredded. So that might be something to consider. If you do have an awful lot, maybe maybe your office’s air moving and suddenly you find that. Okay, you’ve got files and files from maybe past years, and now things are going all electronic. What are you going to do with all of this? You don’t want to move it right, because you might not need to bring all of that old data with you, but yet it contains some potentially, you know, sensitive information that people would not want just floating around out there. Yes. And as you mentioned, there are services where they’ll just place a bin in your office. And then when it fills up, you call them and then they come and shred it and they and they give you back the empty bin. Yeah, what else? What else you thinking around? We’ve just about another minute or so. What else around this data? Data? Privacy and confidentiality? Well, again, just making sure that everything is very well password protected on lee allow people have access to the donor, soft to your donordigital base that absolutely needed shred anything that is printed and keep on top of what’s happening with this with this particular law that that occurred in the european union. And just you know what? Maybe you know, i will of course keep on top of it, tony, and weaken maybe revisited as things develop, even if we make it part of, you know, a small piece of the future show, but i think that that non-profits do need to be aware that this is out there and see the potential for its effect in the united states ask and you’ll you’ll be most successful, i think, in searching if you look for right to be forgotten, maria, thank you very much. Thank you, tony. My pleasure, maria simple. The prospect finder on twitter she’s at maria simple. Her sight is the prospect finder dot com next week, cindy gibson, our grants fund-raising contributor on the logic model, and deborah sharp from non-profit technology conference on user personas. If you missed any of today’s show, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam lever, which is our line producer, shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing on the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. The music is by scout stein of brooklyn, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Yeah. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving nothing. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m we’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking. Bonem