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Nonprofit Radio for October 20, 2017: Disaster Relief & Your Event Pipeline

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My Guests:

Gene Takagi: Disaster Relief

Gene Takagi

We kick off with Gene Takagi explaining how–but first, whether–your nonprofit can help disaster victims. You need a lot more than a big heart and a CrowdRise page. Gene is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

 

 

Pat Clemency: Your Event Pipeline

With Pat Clemency at Fundraising Day 2014

Get committed major donors from your events by making them transformational, not merely transactional. Pat Clemency has before-, during- and after-event ideas. She’s president and CEO of Make-A-Wish Metro New York and Western New York. You’ll learn lessons from Rochester and Buffalo. (Originally aired on October 24, 2014.)

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of arjun. Oh sucks in ic acid urea if you wet me down with the idea that you missed today’s show disaster relief, we kick off with jean takagi explaining how but first weather you’re non-profit can help disaster victims we need you need a lot more than a big heart and a crowd. Rise page genes are legal contributor and the principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group and your event pipeline get committed major donors from your events by making them transformational, not merely transactional pat clemency has before, during and after event ideas she’s, president and ceo of make a wish metro new york and western new york you’ll get lessons from rochester and buffalo that originally aired on october twenty fourth. Twenty fourteen on tony’s take two i learned something from my mom’s death we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dot m a slash pursuant also by wagner, sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers, wagner, sepa is dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apolo see accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and tell us credit and debit card processors you’re passive revenue stream tony dot slash tony, tell us a genuine pleasure to welcome back jean takagi every time he’s on it’s a genuine pleasure. A real pleasure. He’s, the managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, california he edits the wildly popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he’s the american bar association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer he’s at g tak welcome back, jean takagi. Thanks, tony and my mind. Sincere condolences on your loss. Thank you. Thank you very much, jean. Thank you for that. Um, how you doing out there? What? What? So what? We’re in transition transition season whether what’s the weather been oh, actually, the weather’s been all smoky for you hasn’t it been? It has been and going right in line with today’s. Northern california fires weight got a little bit of rain yesterday really light, but it it helped, but we’ve seen you know more than two hundred forty thousand acres. Burns forty two death more than a billion dollars worth of insured losses so it’s really hit it pretty hard up here, and you’re getting impact hours away from from the sort of the where the most devastating fires are. Smoke and ash et cetera, right? Yeah, well, we’re not getting ashot here, although the particulates in the air have been a dangerous levels. So we’re encouraged teo, stay indoors for many of those days, but at least not visible. Ash in san francisco. No smoke, though. Yeah, that’s definitely feel the smoke and those with sensitive breathing issues. I’ve got to really be careful. So as you said, of course, right in line with our discussion, besides the devastation in the california fires, of course, houston, um, florida on dh not only natural disasters, of course. Las vegas shooting there’s ah, there’s. A lot of potential for non-profits teo do good work if they’re suited for it. Yeah, i mean that’s, that’s very true. And we’ve had a very tough year in terms of natural and man made. Don’t forget puerto rico. Yes, thank you very much. I i don’t want to make the mistake of puerto rico is part of our united states? Yes. Thank you for that. Thank you very much, jane. Yeah, and, you know, people want to do good things. And, you know, as he said, a lot of people want to give with their heart on dh people run charities, and those people also want to do something. So the question, you know, is like, well, what can we do and what’s the first question that we should be asking if we are in a non-profit were ceo are chief fund-raising perhaps or a boardmember well meaning boardmember what’s the first analysis we should weigh should we need to look to well, i think the first thing you have to do is you have to look at your mission because, you know, your mission dictates what you’re allowed to do. So if you have a purpose of raising funds to help homeless people in new york, all your donors have entrusted you with their money for that specific purpose. So even though the board and the employees might say, oh, my gosh, we’ve got to get relief out to puerto rico let’s, take the money that we raised in the past that we have. In reserve and dedicated towards puerto rico. While that might be a really admirable and understandable a desire, you’ve got to remember that you owe you own obligation to your donors who had given for homeless people in new york in that case. So checking out what your mission says, and he got a look at your articles of incorporation, our certificate of incorporation and by-laws how you’ve been marketing to your donors to figure that out? What kind of trouble might you get in with, say, the new york attorney general, if you’re a charity that ah, it does have the mission you described and nonetheless sends some relief money, teo puerto rico, or anywhere outside new york, right? I think you know, i think most regulators they’re going to be a little bit easy if you’re raising new money. Tio go outside of your mission that’s not what you’re supposed to do if it’s outside your mission, but i don’t think they’re going to come down hard on you for that, i think where they may come down hard is where one of your donors complain that their money was used for something that wasn’t intended, because that was not within your mission. So if they use existing money and it’s that that hurts what the organization is able to do in terms of furthering its current mission, that becomes the problem i see on dh. Yeah, it only takes one one upset donorsearch tio to write a letter or start an inquiry and you could end up in some trouble. Yeah, or drag it through the media, and then you get a bunch of upset donors, you know, you know, the mission was really something that they were connected with, which, you know, led them to make the donation in the first place. Um, if you let’s say your mission is brought enough that enables you to to send relief of some type teo outside your state way. Have i heard rumors about these things, like charity registration laws and such on other other operating rules that require you to be registered before you start working in another state? Yeah. I mean, that part of your area of expertise, teo. Healthy? Yeah. You’ve got to be careful if you can actually do programmatic work or have boots on the ground in the foreign state you may need to be qualified to operate there, so there may be some additional filings that you need to do again. If you’re you got a limited presence, nobody gets hurt. Nobody complains regulators within that foreign state are probably going to be happy to have your help in the event of a disaster, and probably the risk is going to be low. But what if somebody gets hurt? Yeah, that’s, that’s where you could get in big trouble and when you’re raising funds from a new area, so if you if you got boots on the ground in texas but you’re in new york or california charity and you’re not registered in texas, what if somebody starts to complain about why isn’t my money helping those? You know that i intended to give two? What are you doing with my money? And they start to complain to the attorney general in texas, that might be an issue if you don’t have a good explanation for why you haven’t registered in, perhaps it’ll be a slap on the wrist, and they’ll just tell you, teo, teo, register now and maybe give you a small penalty but if somebody complains loud enough and you you really haven’t been responsible with that money that that could get you into some big trouble. Understand? On dh, why and why take the chance you it’s just it’s. Just not the way to operate. It’s, time for a short break. Jean, please indulge me. We have a slightly different format. Now. Pursuant they’ll help you find your existing donors who are hiding in your file. The ones who are prime for upgrade how do you identify them? And deep in your relationships, they’re free. Webinar is find hidden gems lurking in your file aptly named it’s past eleven, or is over. So why am i talking about? Because it doesn’t matter if it’s over you watch the archive just like non-profit radio it’s the same thing, so it doesn’t matter that it’s past. You will find the archive at the non-profit radio listener landing page tony dot m a slash pursuing also they have a new content paper for you and that is twenty seventeen digital year end fund-raising field guide, which are the channels and advertising strategies that give you the highest return on investment. How can you tweak your year end campaign based on your donor expectations and what are the insider tips on digital fund-raising from some of the biggest non-profits i think you’ve heard me say big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Here you go. The weapons are in the paper or on the non-profit radio listener landing page. Tony dot, m a slash pursuing capital p now i want to get back to jean talking disaster relief. Thank you for that indulgence. Gene. Um, let’s, let’s continue. So i was just saying that you know, it’s, why? Why put yourself at risk? It’s just it’s not what you’re bored should be advocating it’s, not what you should be pursuing if if if you don’t belong there because there are alternatives, i think that’s absolutely treat, ernie, i think you know, not just in terms of the filing, but in terms of whether you have the infrastructure to actually do work over there and whether people donating to you in a foreign state is the best use of charitable money to get relief down into that state is another question you have to think about. So would it be better in certain cases for you say, hey support one of our, you know, charities that we’re friendly, whether we have a relationship with in texas, for example, for hurricane harvey relief, why don’t you give to the community foundation of houston? They’re they’re a great organization. They know you know what they’re doing, and if you have a pre existing relationship with that organization or you vetted them in the past, maybe it’s better to have your donors give directly to them rather than to you and for you to figure out howto fund-raising in texas? Yeah, andi let’s think through what you’re committing, teo again, the motivation is purely altruistic, but what you’re getting yourself into in terms of logistics, you know, if if you’re not on a lot of a lot of drives, i see are not for cash, but therefore things that people need clothing specifically and or maybe housewares and things. Now you’ve got this truckload of stuff, not near where the disaster is, you know, it’s not so easy to get truckloads into a disaster zone. I mean, think about you have to think about what you’re committing yourself to absolutely, and it may cost more to transport those non-cash in that foreign site, then it then the materials are worth, in which case the health is almost useless. You do have to be careful. I don’t want to completely discourage e-giving good like food and clothing. Sometimes that can be helpful. But if that’s really true, when you’re local to the disaster, you’re far away. Cash is so much better. Yeah, because of that logistic concern and all right, so you mentioned, you know, potentially partnering with a charity that that you’re familiar with and directing donations there. What about what about you, fund-raising would you be allowed to fundraise and then give all the cash? Let’s assume it is cash now because you’re distant to the to the charity? If if that’s not within your mission. No, i guess not. Then, right? Yeah. It’s. Not within your mission’s. Kind of the same thing again. The risk is probably low if it’s new money. So you know, if you have a broad enough mission or if you could see that there’s no geographic limitation in your mission. For example, if you’re like a humane society or s p c a. But you don’t say exactly that. We only help people who are for you. Know animal welfare in new york, perhaps then you can you can start a campaign to provide for support of for animal welfare in these disaster stricken regions. Um, and and you can do it through through grants a cz well, tony, so you can raise money from your own donors who are interested. As long as you’re very clear about why you’re raising that money and that it’s going to go to the to the disaster stricken area rather than been locally, you’re clear about that. Then you might find that that partner, charity or potential grantee with which to give that money to rather than try to start a new program, a relief program, it somewhere where you have nobody there. Okay, okay, um and there is ah, resource i’m aware of if you don’t have some kind of partner, really pre existing partner relationship. Charity navigator is very good about being proactive in the face of disasters. I get their emails and they’ll put up a page with charities that they have vetted and redid highly. That there is that our local to the disaster area. So that’s a that’s a method i mean it’s designed for individuals, but certainly a charity that wants to do this work and find a partner, and they don’t have one you could use the charity navigator resource is yeah, i mean, they’re they’re different ways to vet potential grantee charities and the more money you’re going to send, of course, the more vetting that you would be expected to do charity navigator can be a helpful resource is resource for charity’s looking for, for donating, for maximizing their effectiveness and efficiency, and hopefully avoiding any scam charity second about the sad thing is, whenever disaster hits, you get a number of scams that are out there that proclaim themselves to be true charities, and perhaps they even have five, twenty three status, but they may not really be doing the work that they’re doing. So you do really want to be careful, especially as a charity, you know, who should be the great example to its donors that you know howto that e-giving and ensuring that charitable funds are properly spend it. If you’re the bad example than have what donors trust, you know you you want to bet them very carefully. So do you think charity navigator is not? Sufficient for a charity vetting another charity correcting it depends upon, you know, upon all of the circumstances. So if if you’ve got a huge grant to make, then probably want to do a little bit more work than that. But if you’re you know, you’re going to give ten thousand dollars to hurt, you know, for hurricane released in charity navigator recommends community foundation there. I think you’re pretty safe. Okay, okay. Um, and you need to be careful in your in your materials if you are goingto be encouraging these gifts that you are targeting a charitable purpose. Ah, charitable class of people and not a subset or some certainly like a family or something. Yeah, and that gets really tricky because, you know, individually, you know, we may go. Oh, my gosh, i know somebody in puerto rico, and they could really use the help so i’d leave my charity to direct money towards maybe another charity in puerto rico. But maybe i’d actually like to direct my money straight to this family because they just got this really compelling case. Oh, and i put up an ad on my website looking for my donors in california. Uh, to give money to help this one family in puerto rico? Well, if the donors are making the gift and just using the charity as a conduit to get it to individuals specific individuals that are named, then that gift is not tax deductible. It’s not considered a charitable contribution, it’s as if they gave directly to the individuals that they’re trying to get their money. Teo and if the charity, all they do is act as a conduit and that’s that’s going to be problematic, and if the charity then give the donation receipt to the donor thing that your your your money is tax deduct deductible, despite you directing it towards individuals now i can get the charity in trouble so different ways to do that, but a lot a lot of people are getting that wrong where a lot of charities, they’re getting that wrong and have to be here. Yeah, right, so we’re talking about charities. I mean, if you as an individual have family in florida or puerto rico and you want to do something as an individual, then you know we’re not we’re not that’s, not what we’re talking about because you’re not. Claiming that the gift to you will be examined our deductible from federal income tax, right? So by all means you should you should support your family, members of your friends that are there that are hit by disaster and don’t want to discourage that at all, but if you’re trying to give to a charity and get a deduction for it, then then you’ve got to think about making sure that you’re not using the charity just to the condom. And charity has to make sure that it doesn’t allow itself to be used just to the conduit, although i should add that the charity might add examples of individuals that helped. I say we help all of you know, we’re helping all of these families, including be specific ones, make your donation and trust us to put it to bed. Yeah, well, that’s, you know, of course that’s just that’s very good storytelling and good marketing is toe personalize your your broader work t the individual level, right? We’re not talking about that. We’re not talking about your your what? Your marketing, but what you’re claiming we’re their money goes, is not to that family that you just highlighted in a you know, a very touching video. That’s that’s what? That’s. What we need to avoid, right? Okay, so since we’re talking about individuals, what about individuals raising money for a charity? Weii, we see some of that. We see a good amount of that. How does that work? Yeah. So that’s that’s always tricky. So a lot of charities don’t like it when individuals are starting to raise money for them because the individuals may say different things about the charities, some of which may not be true. Um, and the individuals maybe raising money that go to themselves first. And perhaps they’re going to give some or all of it to the charity. Charity has no control of that if the money is going to the individual’s first, uh, also, the donors who gave to that individual won’t get a charitable deduction for giving to just another person and not giving directly to the charity. So it becomes if it’s done informally like that. Like you just all give money to this one person and this person, then you know, who’s promising to give it to charity actually does give it to charity. Well, that person gets a deduction, but all the other people that donate it to that one individual don’t get it right. And that person gets a deduction for all the money that was given to him or her because those were a gift, right? Because those were gifts to an individual and that lets you use may. So i collected ten thousand dollars in gift those were those were just personal gift from person to person on dh if they go over the gift threshold and they may have to pay, then people have to pay a tax, but we’re not going that high, so let’s, say, an aggregate from, you know, fifty friends. I collect ten thousand dollars, i think. Give that to a charity, aiken aiken claim a ten thousand dollar charitable income tax deduction, assuming i meet other limitations and, you know, exempt things like that, but generally, i could claim that deduction for the whole amount. Yeah, you might be able to the charity may not know that you’ve collected it from other individuals. They just hey, we got a ten thousand dollar gift receipt for ten thousand dollars. Thank you very much. Um, on the other hand, you know, the friends that gave the money to you if they hear about this, and especially if he didn’t give all ten thousand dollars right charity? But you said well, and i had three thousand dollars worth of travel costs in my time we had overhead, right? Right, yet that’s going to upset a lot of people that’s the wrong way to do it, but there is a right way to do it. So so if the charity authorizes an individual and you know, the charities will naturally authorize own employees to fundraise on behalf of the that the the organization through, you know, the organizational means, like the website and fund-raising events and all of that, if their sanctions but, you know, they could make unauthorized volunteers to fund-raising a swell and boardmember zehr often fund-raising on behalf of their charities, you know, as individuals who are authorized to do so? Sure, but they’re not collecting the money directly themselves or if they’re taking a check, they’re immediately giving it over to the charity, and the check is going to list the charity’s name on it? Yes, right? Okay, okay. Let’s. See where? What about what about helping businesses can can a charity fund-raising help businesses that air devastated by a disaster? Yeah, it’s a good question, because some people go, can i make a grant to a for profit organization that kind of kind of strange but charity’s can engage in grantmaking or, you know, providing assistance to businesses in different situations, and this plays out a lot in disasters in the event of a disaster. So if the business owners are it’s a small business, a mom and pop store in the mom pop are are needy and distress as a result of the disaster. After that, business might be their lifeline, and providing assistance to the business in that case might be fine. It also might be finding a broader sense if the community was deteriorated as a result of a disaster. So investing in economic development and combating community deterioration and blight, that’s all charitable purpose. So as long as again it’s within your mission to be able to give such support, you could do that also lessening the burdens of governments of the government says this is something that you know is public works we need toe, give back and develop our small business community here. That got terribly hit by the disaster. If the government is doing it, probably used tenants. Okay. Would that include infrastructure repair, too? Yeah, it would. Okay, so all sorts of things that you could do, you can you can help building costs, rebuilding cost. The one thing is, you know when to stop when that bible that’s probably the time with charitable. Okay, right. We don’t need to be buying partnership shares in the private in the privately held company. Okay, we’re buying in. We’re going to go. We’re going to become general managers of the llc. Alright. That’s beyond the pale. Okay, hyre now, there was something pretty high profile talk about individuals. I know you. I think you know, i don’t know much about sports but this there’s a guy named j j watts and he plays one of the sports balls. Hey, does something in in sports hey raised thirty seven million dollars for orm. Or maybe you think it’s still being counted for harvey relief in houston through his foundation. But there’s a lesson there that you want to talk about? Yes. What is? Football player with a very, very popular what? I called him what’s i’m sorry. Does your watts restaurant? I don’t even know whatever he plays baseball with j j watt. Pardon me, mister. What? Okay. Pit so and very compelling figure. And he made an appeal after hurricane harvey to collect money raised money for relief in houston. And, you know, at first, you know, his ambitions were very small. I think it was even less than a million dollars that he was hoping to collect to give back, and he has a foundation. So a fiver onesie three foundation that he runs, and they i think they’re really focused in on sports programs for children. But he heard about that, you know? Well, didn’t hear hear, just hear about it, but he, you know, he was in houston, so he was just well aware of the hurricane in the immense damage that it has done, so he wanted to make a difference. So he went on to a crowd funding site called you caring. Uh, and he wanted to raise money. So my wilson here is he did, you know, top thirty seven million dollars, and i think he stopped the campaign right now, but this is a foundation that was very small, it and i applied his efforts and believe me, you know, he probably raised by that otherwise might not have been raised. So for that that’s fantastic. On the other hand, i don’t know that his foundation really had the infrastructure and was prepared to do relief work in all of the sudden they have thirty seven million dollars, they don’t know how much staff they had don’t know how much expertise they had in this area. So there you know, there’s, some criticism, and i think disaster relief. Oh, and charities are likely to face criticism right away because getting aid to the individuals is very difficult to do and having a plan to do it. It is tough, it’s hard just to give to anybody who puts their hand out and although you want to that’s not the responsible way to do it, so they’ve got to come up with a plan if they’ve never done it before it’s going to take more time for the plan. So i think the lesson there is just in terms of figuring out again, as we said. Before, if you’re a foreign charity coming in, if this isn’t the work that you do you want to think about, you know what the best way to make use of that money is? Perhaps, if you, you know, i had been the figurehead for a campaign by the community foundation, or he decided to give, you know, the money he raised to the community foundation that’s actively involved with multiple non-profits on the ground, working with smaller communities in that area that could get the money to the people who needed it the most, or or you know, the the need to address the needs right away might have been more efficient. So i think that’s the one without wanting teo, criticize the foundation itself, and j j watt, you know, participation in doing tremendous work, it would be great to see the money just really effectively and efficiently used and not for building brand new infrastructures in a brand new area of charity that an organization has never done before. And i want to credit eugene with something that you alerted me to in las vegas. The clark county commission chair was raising money, and he was not. Clear where the money was going until you jean takagi i asked about it and then and then he became transparent, so unfortunately have to leave it there. But credit, credit hat’s off to you, jean, for in increasing transparency and fund-raising we’ve talked about it so many, many times. Congratulations for that. Okay, what? I’m not sure packing climb full credit, but i’m glad that that they responded alright. Small victories jean takagi he’s, our legal contributor managing attorney of neo check him out at non-profit law blogged dot com and at g tak thank you for so much, gene. Thanks, tony. My best. Thank you, pat. Clemency and your event pipeline coming up first, wagner, cps there’s so much more than just cps way beyond lots of added value, they do go way beyond the numbers. They’re true to their tagline, major gift, best practices and common mistakes. It’s, one of their archived webinars, covers five best practices and five common stakes equally balanced. See how they do that it’s like a balance it’s like thea it’s, like the assets have to equal liability snusz owners equity it, see how balances five and five but then they add the single most important thing you can do to have a more successful major gift program, so if you’re thinking you’d like to beef up your major e-giving program or benchmark against others, get some outside perspective, perhaps on your fund-raising never hurts to have ah, fresh set of eyes and and ideas lofting over what you’re already doing. No need to sign up. No need to register it’s archived. Watch it right now, it’s the major gifts webinar and it is that wagner cps dot com click resource is than webinars to browse everything, everything else that they have ah quick resource is and then you see the full collection there blawg other webinars and those guides that you’ve heard me talk about world. The templates and sample policies are that’s all under guides, so check out wagner cps dot com resource is and then go to town apolo software you’re non-profit but what kind of accounting software using using software made for business and i never gave this a moments thought never inside my ken i liketo work that word, kenan whenever i can into ah, until conversations it was never within my cannon just like that word. Can um, but when apple is became a sponsor, it seems to make some sense you need accounting software that is made for non-profits that’s what you are and his age of niche software, and help us a knish knish and i’m not comfort with can i like a lot niche it’s a little affected? Try to stay away from that in this age of niche software, you deserve it. So whether using quickbooks or terrible cash or one of microsoft products or sapi whatever super duper whiz bang books, whatever you’re using, those are for business except the well. The super duper whiz bang books is not for business, but if it did, if there was such a thing as a super whiz bang books, super duper was bank books than merely about duper. Then that would be for business. But you’re non-profit so take a look at apple owes accounting it’s accounting software designed for non-profits and to find them you go to non-profit wizard dot com now time for tony’s take two i did a video on something that i learned so far from my mom’s death earlier this month. The importance of end of life planning my family is so good, and i am all of us or so grateful that she died quietly in a hospice very soothing pastoral place. I’ll shout it out, vilma re claire in saddle brook, new jersey, where they do comfort care and they understand managing management of pain. It’s on twenty five acres and there’s trees and the rooms are beautiful and not sterile like a hospital, which is not to put down hospitals but totally different missions on dh no alarms, chai ming and beeping and people scurrying in the hallway. Not like that at all. So ah, hospice hospice planning. I’m encouraging you to give thought to your own or your family members end of life planning it’s just it’s it’s got new importance for me, and i could see the value of it for my mom, for our family to mean hospices for the support of the family, just a cz much as the patient, so end of life planning. Take a look at the video it’s at tony martignetti dot com i’m sure there’s a lot more than i have to learn about my mom’s death that this is what i’ve got so far that was tony take two let’s, take a look at the live listener love where’s it going out is going out to ann arbor, michigan, woodbridge, new jersey and woodbridge. I gotta compliment you, woodbridge. You’ve been very loyal. Uras loyal is seoul, south korea, so woodbridge special listener love live listen, i’m about to you. Tampa, florida, staten island, new york, delmar, new york. Oakland, california. Los angeles, california, california. Of course our thoughts while los angeles in the south, but oakland near the devastation, as gene and i were talking about live love to all those locations and live listeners. Let’s, go abroad to germany, we can’t see your city, but gooden dog nonetheless federal, argentina, hanoi, vietnam vietnam has been occasional, but not too much glad you’re with us. Hanoi thank you, live love to you, seoul, south korea, on your haserot comes a ham nida and san pedro, san pedro, costa rica i might know some people in some pedro i know some people in costa rica. I wonder if that could be sheri and ah, shari and gary. Live love to san pedro, costa rica affiliate affections. I feel like going out of sequence. So what? You gonna beat me up for it so grateful. Lots of affections to our affiliate am and fm listeners. I’m so glad you’re with us and the podcast pleasantries to the over twelve thousand so glad that you are with us the bulk of our listening audience. Thank you, podcast listeners pleasantries to you. Here is pet clemency with your event pipeline welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen we are in times square, new york city at the marriott marquis hotel. With me now is pat clemency. Her seminar topic is the event pipeline turning event guests into major donors. Pat is president and ceo of make a wish metro new york and western new york kayman c welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. Pleasure to have you you have a pretty desperate territory new york city and western new york it’s an interesting territory, but i think it really is empowering in the sense you get a chance to say all sorts of markets in which you can raise money and it’s really the opportunity to understand how donors react in their markets. And and you know what? The universe was they? Won’t want to make a difference and how far west does western new york go in your we cover the major cities of buffalo and rochester seventeen counties it’s just go over to buffalo. It does. Okay, so we don’t have the middle of the state, but we have a new york city in nassau county and then seventeen states counties upstate. What do you see that non-profits are not quite getting right around events and transitioning donors from events. Well, i think, you know, we all start with special events. I mean, there’s, no question about it, i think it is the recognition that there is a discipline that can make those events were quarter and smarter and are part of a major gifts strategy if we see it as an event that we efficiently come into and go out of without seeing its capacity to build a pipeline of donors for other kinds of fund-raising particularly major gifts, i don’t think we make it a lot of candy, so today we really talk to have great dialogue around the issue about some of the things that we can do to make a special event three distinct parts it matters deeply what we do before going into the event, we’ll talk a lot about planet, but planning in a different way, that really makes us understand who is coming, who are the prospects the day of the event? How do we really connect the donor’s? Not just with the event, but with the mission and how they can make a specific difference and how we then engaged him in the journey, not with the event, but with the organization over time. It’s really the third ingredient in and so it really is very helpful to think about it as more than simply even itself. I’m gonna ask you to talk even closer to the mike because we have now we have the background noise because lunch lunch is over, so stay nice and close. We don’t pick up too much outside background noise. Well, let’s start with the natural place of planning. What? What should be redoing as we’re planning the event to be planning transitioning hyre attendees to teo to our donor ranked i think wolber too often we start berkeley just a rather than the strategy. What are we trying to do? And who are we trying? To attract and we also need to cast a wider net if you think of the donor pyramid. I mean, we’re looking at our past event guests and hoping people who will be new to the event will also come, but we’re not looking for the clues that people give us. And so we found there was great opportunity looking at direct male donors give one hundred dollars more, and when we did some wealth screening, we found out they gave us one hundred dollars, not because that was their capacity, but we had a box and they checked it and they gave us one hundred dollars, but we understood it. When we looked at it, they had so much more capacity, but we never got around to asking them. So looking a little bit more broadly and thinking about the strategy of engagement, we basically said, if you look at an event just as a single time, we’re going to invite him again next year. But if we look at the event and over late, a lot of the major gift strategies we have the ability to change the whole dynamic, your royalty won’t be that the event it could be that the institution and would be a longer term engagement if we get that right in the planning stage. That’s what we want, right? We don’t want just coming up year after year, and does this include people who come? They may only come one time because there connected with the honoree or just a friend of the organization brought them way convert those kinds of people. Well, you know, it’s very interesting we learn a lot from our buffalo rochester offices because they have a very different evergreen strategy. Honorees are looked at differently than we look at them in new york city, and they are on it for body of work. So as a result, most of their strategy is thinking about how do you get the same donors to renew at higher levels each and every year? So now we’re beginning to implement that, saying, regardless of the honoree, how do we get more of our sponsors to renew? And then for those one time donors who come because of a gala honoring, we need to do some more screening and think about who else in our boards within the make-a-wish family knows them, so that the relationship can transition to the organization, not simply around the honoree. What else can we learn from rochester and buffalo? Well, you know what i think it is? The universal is people want to make a difference, and we just have to make sure that we’re not leading with what we need. But we understand that the first conversation is the donor’s needs, and the donor wants to be able to make a difference how our job is to take them on the journey by showing them how treating them like an investor. And that is a really key difference. Very often we ask for what we need, and we never think from the donor perspective, what about the organization will really resonate with them for the long haul? Do you really feel that upstate or western new york is better than downstate new york at this? No, no, i mean, they they’re scale is very different than ours. I mean, it’s, a smaller scale. But we i think the best thing about fund-raising is if we are open to understand the best practices exist everywhere they learnt from us. We learn from them and i think it’s. Fine, but i think the interesting thing is in every market, if you begin to institute this practice of looking at a bent donors not just as jonas sporting event on an annual basis but really, truly look at it as a pipeline wei have seen donors seventeen hundred dollars to ten million dollars or from our five thousand dollars to five hundred thousand dollars. It isn’t a journey overnight, but the fact of the matter is some of our very largest major gift owners. Their entry point was at an event it was how we dealt with that that made all the difference as to whether or not that became a continued transaction. We sell a ticket, you come to our event or if it really became a transformational relationship with the mission of the organization, are there other specific things that we should be doing in our planning? Aside from the concept of the lifetime donor, the longer term relationship? Are there things specific to a no to the invitations? Who invites them? How they’re invited before the event? What else should we be doing specifically? Well, we began talking about if we were to really make this part of our major gifts strategy, what are the shifts that we need to make? And when you think about it, our invitation is to an event we needed teo even change the messaging we’re not just inviting you to invent. We’re inviting you to share and join in this extraordinary mission and that’s very subtle, but it’s a very big difference. And so we even change the fact that when you come to a gala is a perfect example. Think about how we spend the first hour at cocktails just kind of wandering around. Instead, registration is outside, so the minute you enter the doors, you are coming in and part of a community of like minded people who believe that this is some of the most important work we can do for kids. And you are meeting wish families and volunteers on board members course searching you out as a guest that evening, in that first hour becomes a really important message about we welcome your involvement in this remarkable work. How do we convey that message in our cocktail hour? Well, it’s really about storytelling and changing? Who tells the story? So if you think about it very often at a gallop, whether it is during the cocktail hour, it’s during the main speeches of the night, putting up the ceo, they’re putting up the board chair. We’re talking about the past. We’re actually talking about statistics and how much money we raised in our case, somebody wishes granted when we change the dynamic of who the storyteller wrists really should be the people who experienced the mission first hand and as we tell the story through their eyes, it says to a donor here’s exactly what your donation would do here’s exactly how it makes a difference in that moment for a lifetime that’s a very different relationship from the beginning of the point where that donor enters the gala, if we’re going to focus on storytelling at our events and it might be a very big one memory big gala or might just be a smaller could be anything smaller, gathering, maybe even a meeting. Absolutely we need thio sounds like have a very consistent message that the leadership is conveying that trickles down to all the employees and then also the board is conveying right when we need to have consistency and messaging well. You don’t have consistency in a couple of things. I think you have to have consistency and messaging for sure, but you also have to build a culture where the board and the staff are engaged in thinking about who’s there, you know, there’s, not a throwaway seat in any event, and when you think that it matters most, there is a greater level of engaging on the part of the board in the staff pretty work that gets done who’s at those tables who should we know how we welcome them? What would be important to them? And it allows boards to be successful? You know, something tells me you’re from boardmember i’ve given you every contact i have there’s, nobody else i can approach hold this empowers boards to reach out to other people that the organization knows and be champions at night for the cost. So there are signs that we’re assigning people, too, to meet specific people during the evening during the event absolutely and beyond that, you’re the eyes and ears. Every single person has a role, kind of just surveying the room and learning what what they’re hearing that night and reporting it back. So, justus, we schedule an event on a day before that event takes place. We also have the debrief date by which boardmember volunteer staff get together. What did you hear? What did we learn? In very often? One piece of information about somebody was in the room is magnified. Then buy another piece of information and out of that then becomes thought. Okay, the event is over, but it’s only really big beginning in terms of engaging that donor long term now in the life of the organization and so part of the debrief is what’s next. What are some of the opportunities? And you’re right, we have to be on the same page. If someone were to say to us post event, i’d love to be involved how you have to be able to convey what the options are many and there’s not going to be one that works for everybody. But everybody needs to know here some of the ways that you could be involved in an ongoing basis. So we’ve transitioned from beginning the planning stage two day off now, or we’re at our event. What else? A little bit there. Sorry, that was allowed. What? Else should we be thinking about oh are executed the day of to create this transition? Well, i think the other thing that you could do very, very well is start with the strategy what’s the message that you’re trying to convey that should be the threat of connection to everything that’s being done that night and for us was really talking about the ripple effect of wishes in the ripple effect of wishes is a moment in time, yes, but it also has a lifelong impact. So one of our speakers was a thirty five year old executive with a wall street firm. He was a wish child seventeen years ago, and so the impact or him wass it had a ripple effect through his life. The life of his brother, who they really had a hard time when he was diagnosed with cancer. As the family would tell you, everybody’s diagnosed cancer, you know, said everybody has cancer feels like and so the threat of connection of his wish was in that mama with his brother. But it was also over his life he became a wish raining volunteer helping others but imagine his role now explaining to people in his way that this investment that you will make tonight in support of this event, hasn’t it has an impact come on the future generation of kids who are just like me, that’s a that’s amazing way to tell the story. So the first part is what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to show the ripple effect over time, cross families in communities, and so all of those voices were part of the program that once that strategy is that you can always worry about the logistics next, but you’ve got to get that piece of it and too often in event planning for the night of we think about the logistics, but we haven’t really thought about the strategy and that that’s, what we lead with and that story telling is is just a one part of it. Next is if you’ve told the story, then you’ve gotta provide a tangible way for people to make a difference, and so we don’t. We do a lot of fund-raising at night, but its not around an auction for things. We had one great item this year, and the rest is all about an auction to allow people. To sponsor wishes and that’s the meaning of it. You go from the programme which told the story from the perspective of families who have experienced it and then give people the opportunity to share in joining the mission by sponsoring future wish it was incredible to watch the little store ones, and some don’t respond to the wish. A season for wishes any or twenty five thousand dollars donation in the room, about an individual wish, right down to a thousand dollars and watching the room right up every time somebody was part of the community that was making a difference was really an extraordinary thing. It allowed people to know that this was a really special thing, that in this time in place, we’re all making a difference. We got to take a break, tell us credit card and payment processing. How about a passive residual revenue stream that pays you each month? You can check out, tell us payment processing, because that’s, what this is going to mean for you as one of their partner non-profits, you will get fifty percent of every dollar telling skits, half of what they earn from the businesses that you refer. Goes to you and they have this incredible offer that is only for non-profit radio listeners you refer business, they’re going to look at tell us, is going to look over their processing fees and determine whether they can save the business money if they can. Then of course, that business hopefully we’ll sign up with tell us, because that’ll mean a revenue stream for you. But of course, you know that’s up to the business. If tellers can’t save them money, you get two hundred fifty dollars, tell us cannot help them by saving them fees they’re going to tell us is going to give you two hundred fifty dollars. So who is this apply to think about businesses that you’re boardmember zone local merchants that maybe the local dry cleaner or maybe a car dealership or it could be a target store? Whoever it is, local merchants supporting your work? Um, restaurants, dealerships, maybe i mentioned car dealerships of storefronts any kind? Independent artists, your family members, anybody that takes credit card payments. If tell us can’t save them money, you’ll get two hundred fifty dollars, and again, if they sign up with tell us, you get half the revenue each month that’s the continuing residual revenue stream. Check out tony dot, m a slash tony tell us that’s the only place where you going to find this two hundred fifty dollars offer now, let’s, go back to pat clemency. I’m going to ask a little just sort of a digression just about the logistics of that that auction for wishes. Did you have people predetermined that would that would be bidding on on any of the any of those auctions and those wish auctions way we thought about was, how could we make it? And i don’t mean to suggest the whole thing’s really know. Not only did you have one or two people who you knew would get the ball rolling, they were all legitimate that’s we wouldn’t do that, but but there’s a couple things that we were able to do before tony. So three board members came forward and said for new donors who never made a donation before to make a wish, the ability to come and make a difference for a child that’s a pretty important thing. But how much more would they feel the impact of that initial donation if we came up with a challenge match, so three of our board members got together and one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars was put up in advance. They pledge this and they would match donations of two hundred seventy five thousand, so that was a huge thing. We also knew from a couple of donors at the wish auction for somebody who couldn’t be at the gala, they were out of town was still a way to participate, so for people who weren’t there and want to participate that’s part of our culture now you always have this opportunity give even if you can’t be there. So we knew a handful of dahna they do it’s what you do for the ones who couldn’t be there, so they have already pledged it, and they made that commitment right before, and so we let people know that we were able to do that. Those two things are done in advance. We know that if if people know that the donation they make is going to be doubled there’s a likelihood that they’re going to give a little bit more on dh, then the other one to find a way to let donors who just can’t not be there that night. How else could we participate when it’s about wishes anybody can participate? And i think that helped a cz well, so that’s kind of the two things we know going into the night come and way announced to the audience and then the third part of our trilogy stories after the event, what do we need to be now? Follow-up should be planned during planning, right way we should be thinking about what our follow-up is gonna be while we’re doing the advance planning it is, but we’re hearing a lot that night, and you’re understanding what the individual journey might be for donorsearch we can talk about own overall strategy were also listening to the donors needs as well, and that we hear that that night so that’s that’s an important thing. But, you know, i i think there’s a couple of great examples, our ten million dollars donor started out as a seventeen hundred dollars, went on. He bought tickets to a mets game where they were doing a benefit for make a wish and to see the journey after some of the events, it was where he got to the traditional stage was when he was able to make a difference for the individual wish kids. So he began to grant wishes and then began to think, well, if i could grant a wish, i wonder if i could do more. Then he began to grant a wish a month for five years. Sixty kids, when you think about that and that his attitude wass but i could inspire others by this, and i have to lead by example. So in his office building, he took down some of his paintings and put up something that we have designed, which was simply a tree, acknowledging those wishes that have been granted so simple. First name of a child and a wish. And when you came up into his lobby, you immediately saw that this was somebody who was champion the cost. So he then, as he got closer after after having been an event donor now he’s making a difference for children. And so when it became time to start thinking about the next generation wish children, you know, in two thousand thirteen, we were thirty years old and we had grand on ten thousand wish and we had a big bowl dream for the future. We want to grant the next ten thousand wishes because we understood now importance and impact. I want to grant those ten thousand wishes in a decade. Well, how do you sell somebody on a big, bold dream? Will you go to your best investors in the cause? And he said, well, i like to give you a down payment on the future. And that became the largest individual gift in the history of make-a-wish worldwide from an individual. And think about that for the for the future of this organization. You know, here was somebody who went from seventeen hundred dollars, two. Ten million. But it was never about ten million dollars for hemos about the ability to change ten thousand lives. So you think we moved from transaction? You know, i give you tickets to this event because you gave me a donation moved to the transitional stage where we could say thank you for making a difference for that child to the transformational stage would thank you for making a difference for the future of the mission that’s where the journey goes if we take our special event and understand that each of those stages the preplanning the night of and what happens after are all distinct but equally important segments that can help that donor journey. Okay, we still have a couple of minutes left. Anything you want, teo. Hopefully you do have something you want to share that we haven’t said yet. Well, i think, you know, one of the things that i was really struck by wei had our gala on june twelfth this year, and there was a couple who had come forward and they were security. They secure the honore, and they were great in helping support the fund-raising around ten. And as they thought about sending a letter out two people to solicit funds from business colleagues and family and friends, i learn a lot when you see the letters say, right? And this one just simply said we got involved with make a wish because we learned about Micah 6 year old who want to be a ballerina. We stayed involved because over the years, we’ve seen hundreds and thousands of kids whose lives have been forever changed, and what i realized was here was a couple who came to an event. Was a cultivation event just to learn about make-a-wish and they heard that story and that stayed with them, and now we have an event for which they were such an incredible catalyst as a couple raised one point, six million dollars the fund-raising they did was extraordinary, they’ve been doubted wishing for security, and yet they never lost sight of the fact that it was at an event that was learning about that one child that touch them and made them want to do more. I don’t think i really understood that power of their motivation until that moment, but what i did but, you know, that’s, the discipline that we need to put in place, that’s the story telling you a story telling all the way in which we don’t look at this as a transaction it’s so much more an event can be so much more and could be such a powerful part about how we welcome donors into the extraordinary missions that we all support gonna leave it there. Ok, tony, thank you. My pleasure, pat clemency. She is president and ceo of make a wish metro new york and western new york and thank you. For bringing lessons from rochester and buffalo. Thank you, my pleasure or listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen. Thank you so much for being with us next week. I may do sexual harassment in non-profits may check that out. Spend some time with that. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com wagener cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, sepa is dot com appaloosa counting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and tell us credit and debit card processors you’re passive revenue stream tony dahna may slash tony tell us our creative producers claire meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez, and our music is by scott stein you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s, the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for September 15, 2017: Run Like A Biz & Program Your Board

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I need a pancreas. Ole affected me for last week’s pancreas volodya, sis, if you hard into me with the idea that you missed today’s show, run like a biz hillary shaefer brought her twelve years on wall street to the jefferson awards foundation, where she is executive director. She shares her ideas from building core infrastructure to employee policies that originally aired september eighteenth, twenty fifteen and programmed your board. Your board probably recognizes its fiduciary responsibilities, but does it know it’s rolling overseeing programs? Jean takagi is our legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo that also aired september eighteenth twenty fifteen tony’s take two five minute planned e-giving marketing responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by wagner cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apple of accounting software designed for non-profits they’re at non-profit wizard dot com and we’d be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com here’s hillary schaefer run like a biz. I’m glad to welcome to the studio hillary schaefer. Prior to joining the jefferson awards foundation as executive director, she worked as the head of us institutional equity sales in new york. For citigroup, she was one of the highest ranking women in the equity business in the late nineties, she was the executive director of economic security two thousand fighting to save and remodel social security. The foundation is at jefferson awards dot org’s and she’s at beard hillary on twitter welcome hillary schaeffer. Thank you very much. Glad you’re in the studio. Thanks to be here. Eight and a half months pregnant. Eight and a half months pregnant. We got you at the right time. What what’s behind this twitter id beard? Hillary it’s. My maiden name is beard. Okay, until re beard was taken, i presume and hillary beard is probably taking swiped by some. I had that done on youtube. Some joker i hope he was named tony martignetti stole the channel name tony martignetti and i have you riel tony martignetti but he doesn’t use it. So it’s ah, people don’t have trouble finding me? Not that anyone’s looking, but if they were looking, they wouldn’t have trouble finding me on youtube. Um, tell me about wall street what’s it what’s it like making a living equity say institutional equity sales what’s it like, what does that mean, that’s that place, like, actually, frankly, loved it. I did it for twelve years. I went into wall street thinking i would do it for two. Yeah, we’re really, really fell in love for long enough to stay for twelve instruction equity sales is basically where you manage the relationships for the largest institutional investors who invest in stocks. Okay, so on behalf of citigroup, so on you’re like, on account, uh, liaison to big companies buying stocks. Sort of. Yes, i minimize their eyes like so egregiously. Okay, clearly egregiously. So, what do you how do you how do you keep big institutional buyers happy? What you have to do, too, with more of their blackness is making money, right? So investing in stocks that go up and shorting stocks that go down. And so ah, lot of the business of the equity business of citigroup is to provide really good insights and ideas and research into the companies that they care about and delivering that content into your clients in a way which is consumable. Smart fits with their investment style. It helps them make money is really the core of what you do. Okay, but then there are all of these other services that citigroup offers and help clients run their money from financing stocks. Teo, all of the things that go around the core of running that business, okay, banking and credit relationships, things like that, things like that. Okay? And so core of that business is sort of managing that entire relationship to make sure they get the resource is that they need in orderto successfully run the business and a transition to non-profit work. What? What occasioned that, frankly, hurricane sandy, i had left wall street. I have two little kids already at home. And i decided that i wanted teo figure out what i wanted to do next. I had no idea what that was. Actually, frankly thought it would be in the finance world. Yeah, and hurricane sandy hit new york. And i was sitting in my living room working on a business plan for a finance business okay, and i just got really passionate about the idea that there were children who had gone to bed safe and sound the night before that woke up with no signs of food or shelter or warmth, their security. And so i went to work from my living room to create programs that generated millions of more meals, hundreds of thousands of blankets and warm winter coats for families all over the tri state area and my husband on dh, the executive director of robin hood both basically sat me down and said, please don’t go back to finance the passion that you feel around helping people is so significant. Do something else. Stay in the non-profit so you gave away your entrepreneurial dream, the plan you’re working on, you’re going to start your own business. I did put that aside, although running a non-profit is inherently credibly entrepreneur. Okay, if it’s done right, i think that’s done right. All right, all right, tell us a little about the jefferson awards and the and the foundation. Sure. So we we basically power public service. We’ve been around since nineteen seventy two started by jackie kennedy. Senator robert taft. Junior and my father, sam beard and the original idea was create a nobel prize for public service in america. Celebrate the very best of the country. You celebration to not only say thank you to people do amazing things, but also as a force multiplier to inspire others to do something good. We then translated into programs that accelerate and amplify service for people of every age. So, starting about ten years ago, we became one of the largest creators of public service in the country through training mechanisms and programs that engage individuals again of all ages to do service ranging from the donation of a single book from a child to a child all the way up. Tio young people in adult toe like who are impacting millions of lives and it’s ah, jefferson awards so what’s the awards side of this. So when the awards is the celebration peace. So we are effectively the gold seal of service in america. We give out a we give out jefferson awards the national level, you would know basically every name. Okay. Who’s, one of jefferson word over the last forty three years. And then we have a media. Partner program, where we partner with ah, local affiliates, newspapers, etcetera but primary news outlets in communities all over the country. But today, reaching to seventy eight million households on dh, they are empowered to take the jefferson award and celebrate local grassroots unsung heroes. All right, a nobel prize for ah, for outstanding program work and and saving lives for impact impact. How about the foundation itself? Just number employees, just a quaint little bit number of employees annual budget. So it’s about twenty seven, employees, we have a, uh, about a ten and a half million dollar annual budget, of which much of that is in-kind it’s about a three and a half million dollar operating revenue budget. Okay, and we’re going to go out for a break in roughly a minute or so. So just, uh, give us a little overviewing of what? What some of the lessons are that you brought from equity sales on dh wall street. Teo, your charitable work. And i think the biggest thing is just that any organization, whether it’s for-profit or non-profit, needs to be world class in order to be successful and that starts with everything from how you manage and set your employees up for success to your back end systems that govern how you pay your rent, you know, pay your expenses and collect your revenues to don’t hurt management. Teo everything that you do needs to look and feel like you set for-profit world, but it’s really for impact. So i’m guessing you believe non-profit is your tax status? Not your mindset? Correct? Yeah, cool. Okay, of course. Hillary stays with us. We go after this break. I hope you do too. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hillary schaefer let’s ah, let’s, dive into some of these lessons that you’ve brought with you this world class let’s start in the back end investment in infrastructure like c r, m databases, data management so that’s a that’s a terrific place to start because really every non-profit is powered by who they reach and how they reached them and how they communicate with, um and management of relationships, whether that’s a whether that’s, a donor, whether that’s, somebody, who’s won an award from our perspective, whether that somebody who has just invested in you are in your programs and how you understand that relationship, how you manage that relationship is all driven by the back end. Traditionally, people would use spreadsheets or just use, you know, sort of word and lists in their own brains, and fundamentally, it doesn’t get you as far as you need to get, and technology today is so sophisticated and there’s so many great great data pay systems that can integrate seamlessly with your website and with donor management tools and with, um, all mechanisms that you need to communicate effectively and really segment that communication into something that makes sense for that individual. It’s. Almost a shame not to you not to use it. Yeah, segmentation, and we’ll get to the benefit of that. I’ve had other guests. My voice just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old. I’ve had have a congratulations e. Everything else operates at, uh, the requisite age at fifty three. But my voice occasionally. Yeah, so we’ll get to the value of segmentation because people want to talk to personally, not not and mass and like everybody else, but so but this can be hard to invest in me, we’re talking about this is not serving program directly. This is not helping people directly. How do we overcome that mindset that we can get by with, you know, the lackadaisical, the the database that we’ve got her the internal processes we figured out our work arounds, you know we’re okay. It’s it’s finding you say that, right? Because they actually when you invest in a really good database management system and and client relationship manager, which is what c r m stands for, um, what you get out of it, that multiplier effect that you can get from having true, powerful relationships and understanding of all of your constituents, all consolidated is worth every dollar you know, and frankly there’s so many great systems which are out there, and they’re not that expensive. The most expensive part is the time of your staff, an external consultants, which you often need teo, take what is all of the stuff that you’ve cobbled together and to make it work for your organization. So an organization as an example we had brought in sales force. We use sales force. Um, we frankly had the wrong system installed with sales force. It took us a long time to figure out how to get the right system installed in all of those things. But it’s also taking us the better part of eighteen months to clean our data. Teo optimize our data to segment it appropriately so that we can communicate effectively with everybody in the way they want to be communicated with and a fair amount of staff time. And it’s that investment of taking somebody away from something that looks like perhaps it’s more important to their day to day life and put them into what’s really tedious work in order to be a better organization. But for us, if i think about it, if we have a database that reaches sixty thousand people, our ability to grow from an organization that reaches sixty this sixty thousand two, two, six hundred thousand to six million all contingent on us having optimized rc era this is key. So if you want to scale, you have to have the infrastructure to support that every organization wants to be at the next level i get so many questions about, you know, how do i get to next level? Can you refer me to somebody help us get to the next level? But i think often they don’t they’re not set up to get to the next level. They don’t they don’t have the support that they need, even if they were able to teo, multiply by ten there, you know the size of their their outreach. Without data, you have no chance. I’ll give you a great example in the nonprofit world statistic terrifies me, but something like sixty percent of donors don’t repeat on average across the non-profit space every year. Yeah, don’t come back, right? Well, don’t patrician right that’s because we’re not loving the people who are there. Everybody is focused on the next level. No, you’re focused on the next person you forget about the person who’s already said to you with their dollars. I care about what you d’oh at the heart of that is your database management system. I had a guest, peter shankman, um social media expert and marketing guy and his book is called zombie loyalists and basically had a last december. I think i had eternal you’re all your clients and customers into zombie loyalists that love you so much that they’re zombies for your work, and they’ll do your marketing, your pr, your communications for you, but ah, some of what he says boils down to the way to get the client you want is to be awesome to the client. You have that’s exactly right? I mean, i think about it from a from a fund-raising perspective. What the great fundraisers tell you is you should have four contacts with a donor for every time you ask them for something. No in orderto have those four contacts but matter to them, you need to know what they care about that needs to be in your database. You need to understand them that meets not only being your head. It needs to be institutionalized in your database. Ah, and then you need to have systems which set up, which push you to reach out to that person to make sure that you’re not forgetting to touch them four times before you go back to them and say, here’s, your invoice your sales force is a really cool example that you mentioned because for small shops it’s ideal, they’re the first ten licenses from sales force are free to non-profits and then they have a very deeply reduced ah fee for going beyond ten licenses. But i think for a lot of listeners ten licenses is enough for more than enough. So, you know, on i’ve had guests on from the non-profit technology conference and t c talking about the benefits of salesforce, you know, i think that’s right and sales force khun b a terrific tool it’s also it could be not that expensive or if you have the budget, the amount of tools that they have that you khun scale in two really optimizing take you to the next level are huge, so we don’t have we personally don’t have the budget we would love to have to spend with sales force, but we have a big, long wish list of things we would like to spend on specifically with sales force, with the tools that they have something bothering me to my head. Now, i didn’t mean to say lackadaisical databases, i meant to say lackluster, lackluster debate. Lackadaisical database doesn’t make any sense, it’s lazy, lazy self, you know, so that people could be lackadaisical. But the databases lackluster let’s talk a little about the segmentation of the benefit of communicating with people and showing that you know what their interests are when their birthdays are what they, how they like to be communicated with let’s, explore this know people are people, and everybody wants to feel touched individually. Nobody wants to feel like they’re part of a marketing campaign or that they’re part of a sort of a blast. People want to be touched individually. It’s why things like instagram work because they feel touched by a photograph ah, it’s the same thing with with donor or constituent segmentation everybody wants to feel like especially in the nonprofit world where you’re talking about emotion, you are effectively touching people where where they want to improve the world, but you’ve gotta understand which part of it inspires them. Yes, ah, and and also people like being cared for around the things that matter in their daily lives that have nothing to do with you. Ah, their children, their children’s ages what they d’oh? Ah, what their hobbies. Are where they like to travel all of those things. It just matters it’s all about having one on one of relationships. And the better your relationship is, the more likely you are to be able to maximize. And everything you’ve mentioned is data worth preserving its all data. You have to have people love it when you send them a note that says, happy birthday, no, super simple. It is very simple now. So what kinds of reminders do you get? Based on what kinds of things aside from birthday? What? Yeah. What others? Ah, it tends to relate to things that people have told you. Okay? And so for us, it would relate specifically to our program. So we have five different programs that have very, very different calendars. So that could relate. Teo, i i just need to get us a of the date because i know you desperately want to come to our national ceremony in new york city in march. Ah, but it could also be i know you really want to be. Ah, judge at our students in action conference in minneapolis. Ana and so getting that date to you in plenty of advance. Notice it really gets down to that level. All right? So the the value of segmentation and investment in infrastructure what about investment in consultants? You mentioned consulting? Nobody knows everything they need to know, but this could be tough to bring, bring other people in and have a fresh set of eyes evaluating you. It’s interesting on the consulting sight because i i personally have two two minds about consultants. Often i feel like you get charged too much for a percentage of somebody’s brain no on dh that’s the greatest risk with consulting. Ah, but also often they’re just expertise. You don’t want to bring in house. You can’t afford to bring in house, but you need somebody who has fresh eyes who knows something really specific that you don’t know ah, and with without which you can’t can’t go to the next level, you can’t execute effectively. So sales forces a terrific example. Um, there are so many tools inside sales force that enable you to do things like optimize your data and get rid of redundancy and all of those things, um and to, uh, to make it spoke for your organization for think the ways. In which you want to connect with people, i couldn’t do that myself, and i don’t have anybody in house who could do that for me. Could you just send your data data manager, database administrator to a sales force conference or course, yes, we do that too, okay, but it’s not enough, and for the cost of bringing you know you’ve got you’ve got away out the cost. So the question is, can you find somebody who is affordable to you in your organization that helps bring in those that kind of expertise in? I’m their things like building out an effective communication strategy where if you don’t have a big, robust communications team who can think about everything from database management, teo email to social media to all the things that go into digital infrastructure ah, and communications calendars and all of those things. At some point, it becomes really smart to bring in somebody from the outside to say, i’m building you a structure i’m helping you think about inside your organization, for you what a structure would look like, that you can afford let’s turn to our people i think my voice is my voice was crack again, it’s. A big bag, maybe. Yeah, you know. Uh, so you’re important asset, probably your most valuable asset. Most important, most expensive it’s expensive. I would guess inside most non-profits that that people are seventy eight percent of cost big, big, big percentage, um, and making impact in the world all relates to the people who you were in power to make that impact on your behalf as as either a full time employee or an independent contractor and losing employees is as expensive as losing the donors we were talking about, if not more so, you know woobox the amount of time you then need to spend teo find the person, bring them in house, and on average, it takes six to eighteen months to really optimize an employee. That’s a long time to invest in somebody new if you have somebody who’s good who’s sitting there right in front of you. The most important thing with people always is that they feel like they’re being set up to succeed. And they’re being given the tools that they need. Ah, to succeed. All right, how do we do this? Ah, well, that everything from the really basic and can feel very cumbersome to a management manager piece. But ah, gold setting and reviews, letting people know where they stand, being really straightforward with them about what they’re doing that’s terrific, and where they need to develop development goals is a big, big, big piece, and i don’t mean development is in fund-raising i mean, personal development, professional development around how can you be a much more effective employees? For the most part? Certainly in my experience, whether it’s on wall street or in the nonprofit world, when you sit in a review with somebody, they barely hear the good stuff ninety nine percent of what you tell them could be good. Everybody waits for the butt, the but needs to be real, meaning it needs to be i understand you here’s, where i see helping to take you as a human being and as a professional to the next level, and being able to deliver that in a way which is non threatening but having systems and structures around delivering reviews around goal, setting around, holding people accountable to those goals and around understanding them and wanting to be on their side are all the the most important things you can do, and it doesn’t matter what. Kind of an organization you’re out to do that my guest last week, we’re from the university of pittsburgh, and they were talking about incentive pay something that pitt has set up. They’ve defined what an exemplary fundraiser is. It’s basically achieving two hundred percent of your goal. But that’s a big organization, university of pittsburgh, might there be other ways of implementing incentive pay around? Aside from strictly money, money comp, you know, incentives are interesting in non-profits because, um, a, for the most part, non-profits don’t use sort of base bonus type structures, but there are tons of other ways that you can make somebody feel really good about what they do and whether that’s simply celebrating their accomplishments to the other employees into your board. People really thrive on that, but it can also be other things, like giving them an extra days vacation. Um, you know, sending them home on purpose when their kid’s sick and you tell them that family comes first, you know, all those things that’s really more around culture, but there are there are smart things you can do where you say, you know what? I don’t have the dollar to give. You. But i do have a day to give you or two or whatever it is. Whatever it is, that you’ve earned benefits structures are very important. Um, covering people and their families, and how you do that and how you communicate it. Incredibly important and totally under sort of undervalued in the mindset in the nonprofit world about what that means to an individual. And you say, i care about you and your health, and i care about your family in there. We have just about a minute left or so we have a couple more than more than a couple minutes. How much time do we have left? Sam? Okay, dahna then let’s. Ah, my mistake. Let’s. Keep talking about some some policies around employment. Maybe around training. You’ve got a new employee. You’ve spent the requisite amount of time recruiting you believe you’ve got the best person, the orientation, the training process, the onboarding process oven employees that one of the single most important things that you d’oh. So with us, justus a simple example. First, everybody gets a very long, very detailed employee manual that they have to read where they really understand what the operating premises are of the organ you’re holding your hands, like four inches apart for inches. It’s not four inches thick. Okay, okay. They’re recording, so that would be way too much street. All right, but i use my hands a lot. I think i’m going to italy and one hundred in italian, so i didn’t think you were using them enough. That must be the eight and half months. Pregnant part. Yes, i understand. Ok, the but having that set of expectations in somebody’s mind where they read it? They have to affirm it. They have to tell you that they’ve read it. That tells them everything from how many vacation days they do have, how they can accrue more vacation, what the benefits are to them, how they can get in trouble, how they can stay out of trouble. What a whistle blower policy might look like. All of those things very, very important, but then bringing people into the culture of the organization into your programs where they really feel armed. Tio ah, to be an effective employees. Ah, it’s. So fundamental. So we we set up a schedule time with all of our program managers. We have our end of its staff. When they come in they go. They shadow individuals who do either their job or even other jobs inside the organization. Because you’ve got to understand the entire organization. I think in order to be effective in your silo. Um ah, and then we do profession. We were very open to paying from people doing professional development and encourage it. Ah, and then we do regular staff retreats where everybody comes together and we work on pieces that feel like they might be holes in the skill set to the entire organization again. Investment where its infrastructure or people? You just you can’t shortchange these things and expect to scale on grow the organization. I mean, for the amount it costs me, tio run a staff retreat every year, eyes about one percent of what it costs me to pay my staff. Yeah, that is a very worthwhile investment to make that staff be a leverage oppcoll army. We’re gonna leave it there. Hillary shafer she’s uh, executive director of jefferson awards foundation there at jefferson awards dot or ge and again on twitter. She’s at beard, hillary. Thank you so much, hillary. Thank you. Real pleasure and gun muzzle tough. Congratulations on your pregnancy. Thank you very much. Jean takagi and program your board coming up first. Pursuant acquisition campaigns. They had a free webinar to help you acquire new donors. That was back on august thirty first. But it’s not too late. This is not a date news. No, no one current news. You can watch the archive. Go to tony dot m a slash pursuant capital p please. And the info was there to watch. The archive video tony dahna em a slash pursuant for the archive on acquisition campaigns. Rechner, cps. They do go way beyond the numbers. They have lots of policy statements for you. Ah, more than from last week. Ethical conduct for board members, disaster recovery, investment policy, independent contractor versus employee checklist i know non-profit struggle with that. We’ve covered it and there’s a lot more resources at wagner cpas dot com quick resource is then guides that’s where you get all this good info stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books you aren’t a business you’re non-profit appaloosa counting is designed for non-profits built from the ground up to make your non-profit financial management simple and affordable. Please check this out. Our new sponsor, apple, owes its fund accounting, advanced reporting, donation tracking and there’s mohr included in annapolis. Accounting it’s all in one, easy to use. Go to non-profit wizard dot com now for tony’s take two. I still got this five minute marketing for planned e-giving i condensed down to the to the, uh most essential information twenty five minutes. Hard to believe that i could talk for twenty five minutes and it not all be critical. I had difficulty with that, but the whole concept of distilling it down. But i did. And i got it down to about three minutes. Roughly and that’s the best of the five minute marketing tips that i’ve got for you for planned giving. I want you to get started with your plan giving marketing. Watch the tips. Check out the video. Three minutes worth it’s at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two. And here is jean takagi with program you’re bored jean takagi he’s, a principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Gene has been gene has been a regular contributor to show it’s got to be going on three years. Gina i if it’s not three it’s very close. He had it’s, the non popular of the non popular beautiful he had it’s the popular non-profit law blawg dot com non-profit law blogged dot com it’s very popular. And on twitter he’s at jack g t k happy new year jean takagi. Welcome back. Happy new year. Tony it’s. Great to be on. Thank you. I love having you. How long have you been? A contributor every month, i think it’s been a little over three years. A zit? Is it over three? Love it. It could be i think we met three years ago at a bar in san francisco, if i remember, right? Oh, for sure. It’s not like we pick. I picked you up there where i knew you before. I’m not that easy with contributors. I mean, yes, we we knew each other. And then we certainly did meet that’s, right? With along with emily chan? Yes. That’s. Right. Um, let’s see, our board has our board has some responsibilities and around program you’re concerned that they’re not they’re not fulfilling those responsibilities. Yeah, i just feel like there’s there’s, maybe some lack of attention paid on the boards roll on program oversight? I think so often went especially when you talk with lawyers or accountants were talking about financial oversight and we’re saying we’ll make sure you’re solvent. Make sure you have enough money to pay off your debts. They become do we don’t really talk very much about programs, but certainly the management folks and the thunder’s air talking about programs and whether they’re effective and efficient that furthering the mission. So, you know, i thought we should explore a little bit about what the board duties are in in that event as well. Can you just remind us first, we’ve talked about this a while ago. There are three duties that board members have. I was faith, hope and chastity, or on the greatest of those is but yeah, the three duties are the duty of care and that’s act with reasonable care in providing direction and oversight over the organization, the duty of loyalty, and a lot of that has to do with avoiding conflicts of interests that are not in the best interest of the organizations, but are more for the best interest of an insider and the duty of obedience which lawyers air very interested in, and that’s a bang with both the outside laws of you know, that apply to the organization and the internal laws like the by-laws and other policies that the documents may have those air the three to be to be concerned with. Okay and and around program program is essential. Man. That’s what charity’s exist for his programs? Oh, my voice just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old exist that’s. Exciting stuff. Now that it is, it is that’s. Right? Well, you make it interesting. That’s. Why? I love having you back. You make the what could very well be a dry topic. I think you make it interesting. And listeners do too. Yeah. That’s. What? Charity’s air here is for a program. Yeah, exactly. I mean, who cares? The indie at the end of the day, if we’ve got great financials, it’s none of our programs are effective, and we don’t do a service to the community. Precisely. So what? What do we need to be doing? What to boards need to be doing around around program. Well, i think in meeting those three duties, the critical aspect for boards to make sure they’re reasonably informed. Ah, and just get a program report every month or every two months. You know, a ten minute program report from the executive director or program director is fine and good. But does that mean the board really understands the programs and whether the advance the mission on do they understand how the program’s advance emission? And did they ever ask you more difficult questions about are the programs effective? At advancing the mission. Or do we have alternatives? Or should we think of alternatives that might be able to advance that mission mohr effectively or more efficiently, given the limited resources that we all have? First up in this is and we have talked about this, your mission needs to be very clear. Yeah, and one of the things you have to do is make sure you go back. And this is the lawyer speaking, make sure you go back to your articles of incorporation and by-laws and make sure that the mission statement that years, thinking that you’re furthering is consistent with what the law says your mission is, and that’s that’s how it’s displayed on the governing documents and figuring out whether we are effective at meeting our mission. Now we’ve gotto identify cem numbers, right? I mean, it’s, not just gonna be a ten minute report from the program director, we’ve got to be looking at some numbers to figure out whether our we’re having the outcomes that we want, right and it’s such a such a difficult question and that’s, why it’s it’s all about keeping informed? Because you know the whole area of program. Evaluation and that cantor and and a lot of institutions like the stanford center on philanthropy in civil society and mckinsey and, you know, the non-profit cordially foundations under the all have been raiding all sorts of things on program evaluation and how we need more metrics and, you know, but all of that is great, but this is really hard stuff for a lot of non-profits to do so, yes, trying to figure out what what measurements are are important for us to figure out. Are we advancing our mission effectively? And then are we advancing it efficiently is really hard stuff, i think tip typically non-profits will, you know, measure how much money we’ve raised, how many visitors we’ve had or people with served, how many members we have? What is our overhead ratio on? We’ve had discussions on that topic as well, and, you know, those are interesting figures in all important, and i don’t want to downplay that, but what about, you know, then, you know, the number of clients served, for example, does that really tell us what impact that’s done? No before the clients and you know, the program staff may know that, but how does the board know that if we have? If we served two thousand clients last month, did we did we serve them by giving them one meal? Did that change their lives? Did we do more than that? Did we provide services? What? What and impact are we trying to aim for? And what results are we getting those air really difficult things to try to figure out. But i think the board needs to push the organization in that direction. Of trying to figure out are the programs that write programs? Are we effectively implementing it? And if you want to, you know, evaluate your executive and evaluate your programs. You’ve gotta have a good understanding of that. I feel your passion around this, jean. I really do. It comes it’s it’s palpable. Now, in managing these programs, it’s not the board’s roll. Teo to be day to day there’s clearly there’s a delegation that has to be happening. Yeah, absolutely. And and the board certainly has the ability to and should be delegating if they have staff in an executive director. Particularly, um, delegating those duties on those people. And especially, you know, holding the executive accountable. And tasking executive and making sure the executive has resources to be able to do this, to try to figure out what measurements should we take? Teo, evaluate our programs. What what’s important? What do we have the capacity to do now? And what? What do we aspire to do? What are outside stakeholders wanting? What are the foundations saying we must have? And what are the donor’s expecting from us and how to our competitors provide that type of information back? I think we just need to push our executives. We’re lucky enough to have them to figure some of those things out. And none of this has done overnight. Of course, tony. But you know, you you’ve gotto work at this, and sometimes you’re going to move forward, and sometimes you gotta move backwards. But you’ve got to keep pushing, pushing ahead. You just asked five or six really difficult but critical questions. Um, it’s a good thing. This is a podcast cause now people can listen. Go, go back to the past one minute and listen to those five or six questions. Jean just just named, you know, difficulty, but but but critical. And and yet the board’s oversight responsibility remains, and that can’t be delegated. That’s, right? So you know, the board, khun delegate management, but the board can’t delegate its ultimate oversight of the organization and it’s, you know, it’s responsibility to plan the direction of the organization. So status quo, if you know if that’s all you’re satisfied with and you don’t aim to do anything else with that, you know, that may not that may indicate that you don’t have the best board in place, and i was a little shocked. Teo learned, i think two days ago guidestar held a web cast, and there was a survey done of executive directors, and seventy five percent said they were unhappy with their boards and there’s a big disconnect there seventy five percent approved. Okay, what else? What else, uh, is part of the boards oversight of program? Gene? Well, you know, one thing i kind of want to emphasize as well is that i don’t want to put all of this on the board of directors, and i realized that the vast majority of board members are volunteers and have busy lives otherwise and are doing an amazing job. Trying to contribute to their organizations, the disconnect with the exec director is usually because of communications and a lack of understanding of their respective roles. So i just want to put a little bit of a burden on the executive director as well, to make sure that they are emphasizing board development and helping the board understand its responsibilities and sometimes bringing in experts, even though they may cost a little at the outset. Khun b really valuable to an organisation to try to figure out what these roles are, and again put in a little investment up front, and you can get payoff down the road even if you have some failures along the way. But it’s just that continuing to push forward to trying to understand what you’re doing who’s responsible for what? On figuring that stuff out the metrics themselves again. Our khun b, you know, exceedingly difficult if if i asked you give us metrics on changing laws when we were fighting for civil rights, well, that might take years or decades to get any measurable results per se that might make a thunder happy. And you know what would have happened in the early sixties you know, civil rights organizations just had their program shut down because boards didn’t get the right metrics. That would have been ridiculous, right? So we have to understand the limitation of these measurements as well, but continue to try to figure out what important steps or benchmarks we’re shooting for and what’s important to do, even if we don’t get the metrics. Ah, and make sure our funders and donors and stakeholders understand those limitations. Well, just a minute or so before before breaking what? What kind of expert would help us with this? What would we search for? Well, there there are some consultants out there who specialize in program evaluation, and there there are definitely resource is out there. I have named a few organizations already, but let me give you a few more the foundation centre and they’re grantspace website has got some excellent resource is on program evaluation, the national council of non-profits also has some excellent resources. They’re they’re definitely resource is out there. And if you look for non-profit consultants who got program evaluation exper thirties, i think that can be a starting place. This is also a ripe area for collaboration. Amongst organizations that are serving similar populations, or half similar missions, to try to meet together and talked about how they’re measuring, you know, their program, results and what would work for maybe, you know, across the sub sector that that they’re serving, all of those things are really important. I think again, executive leadership is really important to get the board in motion, but the board also has to hold the executive responsible for making sure that happens as well. Let’s, take a break. Gene and i, of course, will keep talking about the board’s responsibility around program and the executive director’s, too. Lynette singleton and at lays, right. Thank you for thank you very much. For those very, very kind thoughts on twitter. Hang in there. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist market of eco enterprises charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. More live listener love junction china ni hao, the netherlands gary indiana the home of christmas story, right? I’m pretty sure a christmas story that movie took place in gary, indiana live listen, i’d love to gary, indiana, and we’ve got a couple checking in from japan, hiroshima and kobe konnichi wa, farmington, michigan live listener love out to you. We have a question from twitter jean very loyal listener lynette singleton asks, do we know why there’s this lack of love between executive directors with and their boards, any ideas what’s contributing to that? I think i’m sorry, tony, that i think there are a number of factors that make be contributing to that, but i think the first is lack of understanding of the rules at each place and then it’s it’s a matter of communication between the two parties there are greater vacations that that board’s place on executives and reliance on the executives tio tio make do with limited resources to produce amazing results, and that can sometimes be a very heavy burden on the executive without a lot of support from the board and exactly what the board’s role is in supporting the executive director’s. Also, i think they’re many areas where there’s a lack of agreement or understanding between those roles and, you know, fund-raising is actually one of the areas of ax. Actually, some controversy, i think, you know, is the board involved. Is the board’s role no to raise funds for the organisation. From a legal perspective, i might answer no to some extent, from a more operational perspective, i would say, of course it is, so they’re they’re different considerations, and that was a charity navigator study, right? I’m not sure. I thought you said i’d start with, i’m sorry, the organization that did the webinar. Okay, okay, god start. Pardon me. Ok wave talking, talking about program meeting the mission, but there’s also legal requirements around program as well. Sure, and then the board should make sure that the executive is ensuring that the program is in compliance with whatever applicable laws might be there, whether it have to do with the facility of the organization or the employees and volunteers working for it, their basic risk management steps that they may want to take a swell, including ensuring that there’s proper insurance that, for whatever activities are are involved. Obviously, if you’re doing a summer day camp involving rope climbing and like that that’s going to be a little bit more significant in terms of risk management than if you’re just doing administrative work, but lots of legal compliance things, licensing, permitting and in all of those think, well, can board members be personally liable if laws are being broken and that’s why we have directors and officers insurance, isn’t it? Yeah, part partly why we have that it’s usually, you know, if there’s some sort of negligence involved when the board members acting not as a boardmember but is a volunteer for a program, then you’re probably looking at commercial general liability insurance to protect against, you know, somebody slip and fall and blaming the volunteer who was right supposed to set it up on the board members, directors and officers. Insurance will really protect against decisions that the board made that ultimately, you know, in hindsight, we’re negligent or grossly negligent, and, you know, if they decided to hold a program in involved involving bungee jumping with six year olds and without adequate supervision that, you know, that would be the type of negligence that could get boardmember personally liable for something like that. But volunteermatch boardmember czar really, really, really rarely held personally liable absent some sort of malfeasance or self dealing really benefit themselves. Okay, i’ve seen some six year olds on the subway that i wouldn’t mind having participate in that that bungee jumping off a cliff i could i could give them a little shove to get them started, but not not kids. I know nobody related to me only only what’s people i’ve seen in some pipe it that it go well, now they’re real. I’ve seen him in the subway, i just don’t know who they are. I can’t name them, but i could point them out easily. Probably on my way home. I’ll encounter a few. Um, what else should we be thinking about? You know, your get before i asked before we do that, you’re an anarchist. Also, you’re making us. I got two troublemakers on the show today. You are making us ask questions that are very difficult, but but critical? Yeah. You know, i think of lawyers and consultants more broadly, that’s what what we do, we can implement the changes that we talked about, what we want to raise the questions because we want boards and executives to really be thinking about these things and discussing them. And that’ll help break down the barriers and the misunderstandings and hopefully make more executive directors feel that their boards air great, make more executive, make more boards feel that their executive directors are doing a great job as well. As i said, i feel your passion around this. We have just about two minutes. What? You have another thought around this? Yeah. You know, just tio, make sure that again and i’ve talked a little bit about this is that there are limitations to what metrics can provide to an organization and some things just take a really long time to figure out research i mentioned lobbying on civil rights issues is one example, but research as well, you know, for going to engage in research of a new program and how it’s going to work or developing a new medical device or drug that’s going to be beneficial to developing nations and that the people there who might not have the resources to be able to afford these things, we’ve got to be a little bit experimental. And i know you know, there’s been preaching to the choir about embracing failure and sharing it so we can learn in advance, but that really is something that all echo as well, that, you know, we’re going to get metrics and sometimes the metrics they’re going to show we failed, but if we never fail, that means we’ve never really pushed the envelope of making a more substantial change, and we’re just sort of, you know, relying on making little incremental changes, and we have to think about our organizations and say, are we detective organization that just wants to stay status quo? Do we want to make little tiny? Incremental changes year by year or do we actually want to look at solving or advancing our mission in a really big way and actually take some risk and find some programs out there that might be more risky and that might fail and help educate our funders and our donors and our supporters that this is what we’re doing and not everything is going to work, but this is the way to advance, you know, our cause lawyer with a heart, jean jean takagi, really so grateful that you’re contributing to the show? Jean, thank you so much. Thank you, johnny. And thanks for basing this serious subject today. That’s all right, uh, we have a little fun with it. You’re an anarchist is no question cubine you’ll find jean at non-profit law blogged dot com that’s the block that he edits and he’s at g tack on twitter. Thank you again, jean, thanks so much. Next week it’ll be a good one. You have my word. I don’t know anything about fermentation. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 1, 2017: Fiscal What?

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Gene Takagi & Andrew Schulman : Fiscal What?

Fiscal sponsorship. You’ve probably seen it and don’t know what it’s called. We’ll fix that as we cover what it is; who does it; how it can help your work; getting started; and what can go wrong. Gene Takagi is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group. Andrew Schulman is with Schulman Consulting.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We got two new sponsors to welcome today. Wittner, cpas and apolo software welcome, wagner. Welcome apple, o’s. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I get slapped with a diagnosis of collect a zia if you tried to milk me with the idea that you missed today’s show physical what fiscal sponsorship you’ve probably seen it and don’t know what it’s called will fix that as we cover what it is who does it, how it can help your work getting started and what could go wrong? Jean takagi is our legal contributor and principle of neo non-profit and exempt organizations more group and andrew shulman is with shulman consulting. They’re both with me for the hour. Tony take two sponsor love responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled pursuing dot com and by wagner sepa is welcome wagner guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit apolo see accounting software designed for non-profits welcome abalos, they’re at non-profit wizard dot com and by we be spelling. Supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be the spelling dot com. What a terrific pleasure to welcome back jean takagi. You know him? You know, i’m for pizza, but he deserves a proper introduction. Of course. He’s, a managing editor, managing attorney of neo, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. And he edits the popular, wildly popular. You should be usually following this blood non-profit law block dot com highly recommended by non-profit radio and he’s, the american bar association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer he’s at g tack on twitter welcome back, jean. Hi, tony it’s. Great to be back. Ah, pleasure and were joined. Bye, andrew showman. He runs the only consulting practice in america focused on fiscal sponsorship, showman consulting, assisting both sponsor organizations and fiscally sponsored projects. He’s, an active member of the national network of fiscal sponsors and a probono consultant for the taproot foundation. His companies that showman consulting, dot com and he’s at am shulman. Welcome, andrew. Thanks for having me, tony. Good to be here. Pleasure. I’m glad you both with me. Thank you for the hour we got we got a big topic this fiscal. What? This fiscal? Sponsorship. Gene let’s, let’s. Start with you. What? What? What are we talking about? Fiscal sponsorship. But it is a little bit of a complicated topic. We have an hour together, which is great. The pickles sponsorship can mean a lot of things. And so when people use the term pickle sponsorship, many of them are thinking of it as a kind of using another organization to raise money so that they could get a charitable project off the ground without forming a new non-profit. But it also refers to other types of relationships as well. But it generally refers to the ability of the charitable project to get the benefit of a five a one c three and raising money through five twenty three through the relationship of the project leaders with the five o one c three o’clock you are approached by a lot of, well, intention, zealous people who want to start non-profits and you just mentioned this can be an alternative to that. Do you have you guided people in this direction? Oh, and it has been successful. Yeah, absolutely. Tony so it works is a great incubator for charitable ideas that organizer’s may not be. Sure of you know, we’ll get off the ground or not, but they’d like to give it a try where might be for a limited scope, it might be for you no one event a year or we’re going to just do it for one year and see what happens. It’s great to have a another charity out stairs and things, you know will sponsor even we’ll, you know, we’ll sort of recognise this is an internal project of ours, and you can work with us to do it. And if it works, maybe spend off later and you form your own non-profit so it works of the great incubator, and i often advise smaller organizations that don’t have a lot of administrative expertise. Teo, think about pickles and jean have you also worked in your practice with the sponsor organizations? Yeah, with several sponsors throughout the country, tony and on their way to do it right into ways to do it wrong. So hopefully we get a chance to look into those things a little bit more. Okay? Sounds good. Andrew let’s bring you in. I know your practices both on the sponsoring side and also the the sponsoring a project side. Anything you want to add at the at the outset, the way tryto break this down for people. I would just just echo what you said about, you know, its sponsors have bean a lot of different things, and you know, it the most interesting thing that i’ve run into is that everyone has a, you know, a little bit of personal experience, i say they were looking at physical processes through a keyhole, and if you sort of pull back there’s actually a whole landscape of different things that it means and different ways that could work. So that’s, what it’s really about? Okay? And i got i got, i guess, validation for the two of you being expert in this area, someone e mailed me someone who works in non buy-in the fiscal sponsorship and said that both jean and andrew are experts on then, of course, now we’re on facebook live live listeners if you want to follow us. Ah, watch the video facebook live! Go to the tourney martignetti non-profit radio page, facebook and document hello, reed reed says gina’s, an awesome expert. Thanks for the topic. Absolutely, reed. You’re in the right place. You should be here every every friday one to two eastern. This should be your your staple friday at one. O’clock! But i’m glad you’re with us today read on also vanessa jones is on facebook live hello? Vanessa. Hello. Um okay, so yes, you both said lots of ways to do this, and in fact, there are models a through f so we’ve got six models, but the two of them are the most popular a and c i don’t know why it’s not a and b maybe we can bring that up with the national, the the national national network. Thank you. Thank you, andrew. National network of fiscal sponsors, but anyway and see the most popular. So we’re going to spend time there, but let’s see andrew let’s stick with you. What? Just let i don’t want to tick off six different models because we’re not going to spend a lot of time on four of them. But just what? What are the distinction? Like what? What characteristics distinguish generally between the six models? What kind of different things that we see in the six different models and then we’ll have time to focus on amc. Okay, okay. Yeah. I will go through all of them individually. But, you know, the key differentiator is elearning and this is something jean will hopefully timing as well. Is the legal relationship between the bumper and the project? Ok? And so do you. Think of it. Spectrum, you know is at one and where the project is essentially the eyes of the law of the ira. Just the program pasta. Looks like they decided to start up a new program. It was much the same way to the regulators, you know, down to, uh, c is one where the project is actually a separate legal entity has its own. We got standing, but just does not have usually does not have a five. One two three on those using the answer for that. So there’s all between there there’s all different relationships on different setups, but basically dependent on what that relationship looks like. Sort of what level the project is at in terms of their i don’t know their situation of you know, either. Incorporated. You have any standing? Okay. Okay. So, it’s a different relationships between the two. Andrew, when we come back to you, i need to speak up a little louder. Okay, try toe latto. Right. A little post it note on your by your phone. And speak a little louder. Okay, so you remember through the hour you’re coming in to buy it for everybody. Okay, now i did find, you know, contrary to popular belief. Actually research these conversations before i have them. And at fiscal sponsorship dot com there’s an article by someone who i think is pretty well known in this area. Greg gregory colvin on my right, gentlemen, he’s he’s written a book. Yeah, i don’t have that right. Yes. Okay on dh he’s got a chart. So if you go to fiscal sponsorship, dot com in this paper by him which is called presentation on fiscal sponsorship also aptly named good for him there’s a chart. And it has the a through f and lays out different basic characteristics. And whether it’s a separate legal entity and we’re the charitable of nations belong and things like that. So if you want to, you want to get more detail on the six. Certainly khun consultant jean takagi or andrew goldman. But if you want to see a simple chart, then you could go to fiscal sponsorship. Dot com. Okay, gene let’s. Um, let’s, let’s. Start toe. Break these down. Model a. Way let’s say we just have, like, a minute or so before break. So why do you just given overviewing of of what? A model, eh? Looks like jean sure. So it’s actually exactly what andrew? It said it. It really is an internal program or unit of the fiscal sponsor. And what happens is the project leaders, the people who come up with the idea that they want this project sponsored, go up to the physical sponsor and say, hey, can you develop a internal program within your entity within your charity, but delegate management of it up on the one thing that separates it from just being a plain vanilla internal program? Is that there’s a fiscal sponsorship agreement that allows the program organizer’s or the project organizer to spin it off at any time? They decide that the fiscal sponsorship relationship isn’t right? Or they decided that there finished with the incubation and they want to set up their own non-profit bible, twenty three entity and then move the programme over into that new energy so that basically modeling in that shop? Okay, cool, well done on. We’re going to dive in further on that and talk. About the pitfalls contracts. Bond, gentlemen, what i do want to do is i want to approach this from the perspective of a potential sponsors, because we’ve got, you know, over twelve thousand people working in and around small midsize non-profit. So they’re all potential sponsors, so that i want to look at it from that perspective more than the perspective of the potential projects. Okay, so everybody stay with us. Fiscal sponsorships continue. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the, uh, they’re ninety five percent got a bunch of people who joined us on facebook live. I love it, rob meger, dahna lechner character chicky and i think we’re headed to the beach. Gary astro, welcome, welcome. Uh, is that kurt? Kurt hildebrand? Okay, welcome, facebook, live. Glad you’re with us. Um, okay, so. Uh, your name is jean, not sam. Sorry. Nobody’s name here starts with an s so that was that was a big faux pas. Okay, gene let’s, let’s. Go a little further with model a. Why? Let’s again? From the sponsoring organizations perspective. Why would non-profit want teo taking an internal project from some bunch of ruffian startups? Start up people with a lot of passion, but not any business sense. What’s the advantage to the that sponsor organization. Well, hopefully they have a little bit of business. Otherwise you wouldn’t take them. Yeah, all right. That’s, the main reasons why a physical sponsor and existing charity would say, hey, i’m willing to sponsor your project and actually make it an internal program of our entity. The main reason they should do that, it’s because it furthers their own charitable mission. So that should be the number one reason what ends happening sometime by maybe less informed leaders of some organizations that might be willing to physically sponsor a project is that they think that it might be a way to make some additional money on. And they might say, hey, we can raise funds for this program. But you know, bring in a little of that for our own general admin purposes, and maybe that that’ll that’ll effectively give us more resource is to do everything else. Okay, well, right, because andrew there’s a fee associated with this, right that the sponsoring organization charges the project. Yes, i think that’s correct, usually it’s space, either on the revenue that’s raised percentage or face on the expenses of that project. Okay, and what, what, what, what? What’s. A typical range what’s fair. Well, it depends on the model depends on a lot of things, but i would say anywhere between five and fifteen percent. Okay. Okay. Uh, in the rain. All right. We’re just right now. We’re just talking about model a sow is that? Does that apply for model a five to fifteen percent? Yeah. Model a. We’re probably looking at four of us st nine. Ten. Fifteen. Okay, a little bit hyre right, because the organization that sponsors is taking on a lot of responsibility, right? Let’s, start flushing that out. Yeah, exactly. There. They’re taking on all of the legal responsibility all of the risk in terms of liability for the project. A cz well, as taking on the financial management of the donations that are coming in and how they’re being piela being spent all that money being spent, the employees rest if there’s paid employees so there’s a lot of a lot of pieces for the for the for the pompel okay. And what what’s the board’s obligation here before we before we take this on it. It sounds like something we shouldn’t do just for the revenue. Wait, let me just let me just start with that question. We should not do it. And i think gene was alluding to this. We shouldn’t do it just for the money. Do i have that right? Yes, i would say nobody should get into any part of non-profits to make a lot of money. Okay? And, of course, you know, even e guess, even if it furthers your mission. But you know, if you’re not really into the whole idea, but you just feel like you could let’s say it does meet the criteria that gene mentioned definitely furthers your charitable mission. Ok, got that. But then wait. We could make some money at it. You know where we’re like, lukewarm on the relationship idea. But, you know, we could make nine or ten percent that’s. This is not the way to go about it, right? Right. Right. Yeah. It really also requires the sponsors have there processes of infrastructure in place to do what? Well, i know there’s. We’ve talked about the book that six ways to do it right, andi, i know jean government have flogged their six ways to do it long from a legal standpoint in my world. From the operation standpoint, there’s, probably about a hundred ways to do it wrong on one of them is trying to take on a project as a sponsor when you don’t have your own infrastructures, set up well, and your financial processes and on all of that work is not sort of ready for prime time than if you take on someone else’s. On top of that, you’re just setting yourself up for bad situation. You alludes in the book? I didn’t. I didn’t make the connection explicitly. The book is by gary coleman. Is that right, greg? Greg coleman, thank you. Six. What is what is the exact title of his book? Jean correct me if i’m wrong, but i think it’s a fiscal sponsorship six ways to do it right? Yeah. That’s absolutely right. And and greg corbin is the guru oh, on this topic, tony he’s he’s really led the whole movement on dh written really? The seminal book and probably only full sized book on the matter. And it’s any non-profit actually wants to start a physical sponsorship program or hasn’t, you know, has started doing it kind of informally, but not really gotten their ducks in order. They should buy this book and read it very carefully. Okay. Greg colvin, fiscal sponsorship. Six ways to do it right. Is that right? That’s? Right. Okay, jean let’s flush out some of these legal responsibilities that ah, sponsoring organization is taking on under model a what does the board need to consider and be aware of? So apart from from the mission of the project, they want to make sure that they got the right sort of project leadership in place. They obviously, as andrew was saying, you’re taking on not only all of the responsibility, the legal responsibility, the project and the financial management responsibilities project, but everything to do with the project is to do with your organization as well. So it’s there any risks involved in that project? The liabilities are going to be the physical sponsors you’re not isolated from that. So you’re taking on all that responsibilities the board has got to think about on dh sometimes he delegates this off to management that the project is well to find enough to be able to do it, but i like it when boards actually approved the projects and take a look at the application, which might include bios of the project leaders, um, and any special rigs that might be involved with their activities. So if there are working with children no, if they’re going on outdoor expeditions or if they got a camping program, is going to be dealing with research for on any see more than just sort of playing administration in an office they’ve gotten think about the risks and whether they have the right insurance in place and all of the infrastructure things that andrew said they’ve got to get in order before the accept the project, those are all the things that the board has to say. Yes, we’re prepared. To take on this particular project because we’ve got all our ducks in order to be able t o i handle the management and oversee all of the management of this particular project, its employees and volunteers and everything else. All right? I’m i’m getting i’m getting tired now of talking in the abstract i want i want toe implore you to tell me a story. So, gene, can you have you have a client story you could tell about a model, eh, fiscal sponsorship that that went well? Sure so ah, a typical model a project make may come in that say says we’ve got this great idea. We’re going teo run an after school program for children’s education in this area of a city that doesn’t get much of those services. We’re not sure you know if it’s gonna work or not, we project that we’re goingto bring in about one hundred thousand dollars a year, and we’re not sure of funding outside of the first year we’ve got some donors and foundations, perhaps that if we have a five a one c three, they will commit. So we’ve got this first year commitment of one hundred thousand dollars we’re not sure after that, if it’s gonna work, so we’re looking for a physical sponsorship relationship to start out with, and that might be kind of the first cases of saying from the physical sponsors point we’ll have you done anything like this before? Have you raised funds before or, you know, how did you get this initial one hundred thousand dollars worth of commitment on dh? What risk is there going to be involved in your after school program? What exactly? When are you going to do who’s going to manage it? Do you need employees? You know, are you going to be all volunteer, right? Those are the types of questions that need to be asked of this particular project that we’re talking about and sometimes stop, you know, in that particular project that i’m thinking of, you know, ended up becoming a great project for that sponsor, the people that brought in the project, we’re really focused on program and fund-raising they didn’t want to worry about all the admits, what filings to make? They didn’t wantto worry about payroll tax withholdings or insurance developed beings called the government’s policies, or even putting together a real board of directors, andi get all of that through the physical sponsors that works really well for the project and the programme leaders. The fiscal sponsor gets this project because they’re also interested in in-kind of children and youth programs in their area, they get this great project that gets a lot of attention, does very well, not only for the first year, but for subsequent years after that, and a great long term relationship arises, and the project actually ends up staying with the physical sponsor, not just through an incubation period that they never want to leave the fiscal sponsors. If you imagine tony one hundred thousand dollars, if we’re talking about even ten percent in administrative fees that’s only ten thousand dollars that’s the project would be paying to the physical sponsor in order to get all of those things. All of the insurance policies of filing no set up that a great relationship that can happen. Okay? And it’s continued, gene has been successful staying with that sponsor organization for many years. All right, andrew, i’ll give you a chance when we get the model. See, i’ll give you a chance to tell a story. Ok, not to worry, okay, um, but still i model a andi want remind listeners i’m talking. Teo jean takagi, principle of neo non-profit exempt organizations, law group and our our legal contributor. And andrew shulman, principal at shulman consulting shuman consulting dot com and we’re talking about fiscal sponsorships right now. Model a. We’ll get to the model, see, and we’ll find out why be got skipped over andrew, what do you what do you like to see you mentioned? There is a lot of things that can go wrong. Tick off some things that you like to see in a written agreement, and i’m presuming that there should be a written agreement. Everything i read said there ought to be a written agreement, but sometimes there isn’t, or a lot of times there isn’t so let’s, just assume that non-profit radio listeners are going to do it right. There is going to be a written agreement between the two entities. What do you like to see in that agreement? Well, i like to see i like to see a lot of things, i mean, okay, i mentioned before, nothing, one of the most important one is how you know a clauses in sections that that will tell how this relationship might end it already if and when it’s ready to be ended by either party. So if the project isn’t doing well and the practically there’s aside, okay, we’re you know, we’re going to close up shop. There should be part of the contract that say, ok, when that happens, here’s, how we’re going to do it wording and andrew, including the possibility of spending off to a different supporting organization, right? Right. So that’s the other side, if it does well and they decide either way, we need to move to a different sponsor that maybe has mohr provoc rise more services or more services. Tailors are specific needs or we want to go out. We’re at the point where we’re big enough people enough, we get our own. Five. One, two, three. You know what? How? What are the rules? And one of the for the processes dictates that so that that should all be in the contract, i’m i also like tio put in again, i’m not a durney venus, but i like to also put in the expectations of both the sponsor that the project should have for the sponsor and that the sponsor has for the project, so that gets into a little bit of process. And, you know, when, how long should we expect as a project that’s gonna take us a sponsor too? Latto check when we need to, you know, make a payment to a vendor or to review a contract before we before we do it, how, you know, if we’re if we’re applying for institutional grants from foundations, what’s the role of the project of the sponsor in that those kinds of things as well so that that’s the kind of stuff that usually gets skipped over in a lot of cases, but i found that to be successful as a sponsor, you really have to set the expectations up front of both how you’re going to operate with the project and what you expect from them. Jean would you want to add on the contract side so just clarity about that, that the project and all of the funds raised for the project are really funds raised for the physical sponsors, the party that signed the contract with the physical sponsors so the project leader they’re not registered to engage in fund-raising themselves and they don’t have five a onesie three status out neither the physical sponsors, so they have to realize that when they’re fund-raising there fund-raising as agents of the five a onesie threespot co sponsor, and they’re raising funds for an internal project of that sponsors so it could be restricted funds that they’re raising but it’s not funds for their separate entity or anything like that. So when they spend off, they might form a separate entity. But ultimately all of the funds belong to the sponsors, so there should be that legal understanding and the contract has got to recognize that. Because if you run into an issue with the irs for an attorney general or other regulators, that documentation has got to be perfect, even though ultimately the sponsor should be willing to transfer out the assets that you’ve got a suitable successor that’s willing to take on the project, including if the project leader’s create their own five a onesie three entities, now they’re going to be little caveat to be careful about. So here we go. One of the reason why the termination is because the project leaders have failed miserably and even embezzled money from the organization. Well, then you don’t wanna transfer assets out to something that they created that you know, would be imprudent for for the physical sponsors board. So little caveats like that you gotta be careful about, and then when they draft an agreement, you want to make sure that the sponsor is protected and doing it in the right way. Okay, we’re going tow. We’re going toe. All right, hold on. There just latto close that model a conversation. When we come back, we’ll do the model c will move to that. See what the differences are. See. See what it means legally, andi, i have to do in the meantime, do a little business first, beginning with pursuant, they’ve got a new free content paper for you. And that is the intelligent fund-raising health check. Health care is in the news. This is a fund-raising health check evaluates state of your fund-raising it includes nine key performance indicators. I think those air kp eyes if you want to be jargon e, but we’re not, we’re not here. Ninety performance indicators and ten characteristics of organizations that thrive. Where do you go? You go to tony dot m a slash pursuant twenty dollars starts pursuing check out free resource is from our sponsors pursuant weinger cps welcome again. Welcome, wagner. Welcome to non-profit radio. They are a cpa firm based in madison, wisconsin, and true to their tagline, they do go way beyond the numbers. They are also very generous with tons of free resource is they’ve got a page and has dozens of policy statements for you, including all the policies you need to make your form nine ninety complete like committee meetings, disclosures on fraud, document retention, lots of others and you’ll be hearing me talk about thes from week to week got to check these resource is out too, you know? Different but valuable absolutely from wagner cpas there at wagner c p a’s don’t forget, the less at the end dot com weinger cps dot com you’re quick resource is then guides stop wasting your time using business accounting software for your books you are in a business, you are a non-profit you’ve heard rumors to that effect welcome apolo software, our second new sponsor, this this week. Apple juice, apple of accounting is the product, and it is designed for non-profits. Don’t use the business software for non-profit your non-profit europe near you are born, used one that was built from the ground up for non-profits financial management. Simple, affordable it’s called apple, owes accounting. It includes fund accounting, advanced reporting, donation, tracking everything you need in one simple software, and you want check out apple of software. You want to see what what apple’s accounting is about. You go to non-profit wizard dot com that is our sponsors, those are our sponsors, welcome new sponsors. I’m very grateful for that. And now it’s, time for tony stick, too, and i am imploring you to show love to our sponsors are our listeners, whether you’re alive. Podcast or affiliate? I’m so grateful. That was not a side. That was a sign of gratitude that everybody’s with us. Um, i need you to ah, i need to check out the sponsors. It’s important. We need them to stay with her us so that we can continue to attract great guests. I can continue to take the show on the road to conferences will get outstanding speakers. They’re the conference speakers. I need you to support our sponsors on their new ones coming october first. So you may hear me mention this again. But for now, pursuant regular sea pia’s appaloosa counting on dweeby spelling. I need you to check out all our sponsors if they if you think they can help you, please let them check them out. Thank you very much. That is tony’s take two and i am with jean takagi and andrew shulman. We’re talking about fiscal sponsorship. Gentlemen, i think we’re ready to move. Teo model. See, unless unless somebody has something burning that the lackluster host did not cover in model a. So anybody, anybody have to say something about model, eh? Okay, going, going, gone. Thank you, thank you. Um, let’s. Move to model c and, uh, give it to andrew. What distinguishes model c from model, eh? Church model c is more of an armed blink relationship. Aunt it’s usually just face around a, uh, candy to space around a specific activity or even a specific grant about me from the project that the project is soliciting through the sponsors tax id number. So basically, in this case, the project, it is not a division or unit sponsor, but they have their own legal status. They usually registered within their state as a charitable organization, but they don’t yet have a five twenty three or don’t have a five, twenty three andi so they remain distinguish where here is that instead of handing off all of that administrative were to the sponsor with model, eh? I don’t see a lot more of that falls on the project, but they’re really just utilizing that. Five, twenty three status of the sponsor two taken tax deductible. So so is this just temporary? Until the the project gets its five. A onesie three designation from the irs, it can be can be temporary. Can be longer term candy. You know, there’s. A lot of uses. I know we haven’t gotten the story time. Yes, but there’s a lot of uses. For model b, the art where if you can imagine, a documentary filmmaker is doing a film that has a terrible purpose heimans telling an important story and they want to raise money via donations. I willbe tax deductible from the donors. And so instead of going through the process of getting their own twenty three, they can actually go through a physical sponsor of the model t and do it that way. Okay, uh, and reminder. I should’ve i should’ve mentioned it earlier. Andrew, remember to speak louder. Okay, write yourself a note and then look at the note to you’ve got to look at the note after you write it. Uh, jeanne model see what you want to add. So i’ll just build on what? But andrew, it just said a lot of times this is a project that thought by arts groups, sometimes by by research group, and they may not actually deformed the non-profit they might just be individual. So proprietors in the case of artist oh, are they might be just a for-profit type of al, l, c or business corporation, but beached in some sort of charitable effort. So the general idea here is they want to raise some money, and they’ve got some willing funders either donate or make grant to this specific project, but the funders and the donors the donors want to get a tax deduction for making the grant, but they can’t make a grant to liken individual artists and just take a deduction for that right on the foundation may not be able to make a grand to an individual artist without jumping through more hoops that they have to do under the regulations when they give to non charities, so both of them would rather give to a charity. But the fund what the artist maybe doing and in that case give it to the physical sponsor and the physical sponsor has the ultimate legal control and discretion over what they’re going to do with the money subject to the restrictions that the donors put. The donors are not going to say you have to give it to this individual artists what the donor’s going to say is we want teo produce oh, are we want to fund the production of a documentary on penguins in argentina and there’s only one, you know, so maker that’s actually doing that and they’ve made that, you know, typical sponsorship contract with the physical sponsor and what the models see. Agreement is a pre approved grant relationship. So basically their physical foncier’s saying, yes, we’ve already vetted this project. The artists on, and we know that they’re doing the research and they’re competent, and we trust them to be able to use our grant money properly. So if we raise the money, teo fund this project, we’re going to re grant it to this person, and this person is going to deliver the project for us, and then we’re going to make sure that it gets published. Distribution is simply because that’s, what a person on league it is, people, that’s, the typical marvel. Okay, so there’s that. There’s. More vetting involved. Do i have that right? Yes, going to be quite a bit of betting in in advance, just to make sure that this person isn’t just pay themselves, you know, for their their own living and, you know, housing expenses, but not do anything charitable with the money or build that they sell to a private collector. So it never gets into the public realm. And it’s just a way for that person to make extra income on their parents, donated the money and took a tax deduction for that that was completely improper and unlawful. So the sponsors got to make sure the vet that, if we’re going to enter into this relationship, are our role is a grantmaker, just like a private foundation might, you know, have a role to vet all of their grantees. But when you’re not going to give a grant to another public charity, you know, the responsibilities and the vending has got to be a little bit stronger, because you have to make sure that your money that you’re giving your charitable monies, that you’re giving us a fiscal sponsor, are only going to be used for charitable purposes. And they’re not going to be a fuse for private benefit. Jean do we know why model b got skipped over? Why did we get screwed? Well, pick first shot at a b b is around and this probably as the third most common of the fiscal sponsorship forms and it’s a little bit of model aimed he combined in that the project is owned by the physical sponsors, but rather than as in model a, where all the employees, volunteers and the contractors all are employed or hired or contracted by the physical sponsor. The entire project is going to be contract id out a single independent contractor in the model b, so you own the project because you want to control the project result, but you hired an independent contractor who would probably be the project leaders that brought the project to you in the first place, and they’re not going to be your employees, but they’re going to be independent contractors to it, and they’re going to supply all the services that our program services the cynical sponsor will still do most of the back office stuff. So is it too late there? Insurance would cover it, but they would hyre out an independent contractor. Can we have movable? Can’t we move? See up to be and be down to see since since sees more popular than be or is it xero late for that? So what? Who created this created this? I don’t know what greg’s mom and creature grantmaking. Dr gramm. We’re popular bin b but b if you look at it in terms of control and responsibility of the fiscal sponsor a is the most responsibility for the physical sponsor is the next most and he’s the least i see. All right, so we were working down a xander was saying earlier. It’s the relation what distinguishes these six is the relationship and we’re working. We’re working toward less less responsibility for the sponsor. Is that a through f? Do i have that right? At least eight, just like different variations. All right, all right. We need to get greg on here. Explain his nomenclature. But thes e the one who created this morass. Okay, we have it. We have a bit of a naming problem. Yeah, if you haven’t noticed. Yeah. Model, eh? My late model. Be okay. Uh, andrew, tell us a model. See story. Sure. So remember to talk loudly. I okay, i’m trying to tell me if i’m not because i’m trying to tell me what i need to talk even more loudly. Ok? Ok. You said okay, go ahead. I worked with. Okay, great. So i worked with an organization that association for non-profit news organizations on dh part of what they do is offer physical sponsorship metoo start up non-profit news entities. So i think, like the local ah, websites that have serve lots and all of the country with all the investigative reporters i’ve gotten laid off from newsrooms they’ve all got out started their own websites to cover local governments and things like that, and they offer a fiscal sponsorship in mile see to those entities to help them get started because and sometimes to stay for a very long time, because the gandhi’s are folks who are starting these entities that aren’t looking to you manage, you know, a non-profits they’re not looking to worry about out getting there there five, one, two, three status and and all of that on this organization that’s those folks, obviously they know who they are. They’re watching them very closely and know they’re acting as the five twenty three for all of those organizations. Okay, and that is that relationship continuing? Yeah, they have a have a great program. They have. Ah, i don’t know, probably upwards of twenty or so. And, you know, like i said, sometimes makes sense for that’s, awful, sponsored project and either model to separate out on their own. And sometimes it makes sense for them to stay, because, you know, if you had a certain level of size and fund-raising staff, bond, all that kind of stuff, uh, it’s, just a really good deal for you to be sponsors. And so, you know, especially in this day and age where a lot of funders are concerned about overhead and have lots of questions about overhead. I always tell people you’ll never have lower overheads in which her under physical sponsorship. We’re going to go out for our last break when we come back. Of course, live listeners love that. We’ve got to do that, and we’ll explore a little more than due diligence. Yes, and, you know potential risks. In our last seven minutes or so, stay with us. 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You could join us, facebook live at twenty martignetti non-profit radio page and, of course, on the heels of all that has to come. The podcast pleasantries toe are over twelve thousand podcast listeners thank you whenever you’re listening, vinge listening, maybe four episodes in a row. Thank you so much, so glad you’re with us. So glad you get value from the podcast and our affiliate affections to the many listeners at our am and fm stations throughout the country i’m grateful to you for tuning in on the on your analog device. Of course, maybe you’re streaming your nephew stream your your radio station. So not necessarily. However you’re listening to your station so glad you’re with us and i thank your station for carrying non-profit radio, expanding the network, expanding the family it’s a family, not a network network. Sounds like a health care organization. It’s a family um andrew who’s, that who’s that sick rings that you andrew genes genes used during this so it’s probably it’s probably andrew’s genes used to hearing all this. I was ranting, you see, listen, specially love jean um okay, let’s, talk a little about some due diligence. Jean i gave you a shot earlier. Let’s andrew let’s, talk to you now about let’s. Hear from you sorry up my voice just cracked like i’m a fourteen year old on some or the due diligence that is sponsoring organization needs to do, you know, detail. We like actionable details for our listeners lorts sure, well, i think. You know, especially if you’re either either model, either either model, right, looking, too, to take on a sponsored project. You know it. This is a relationship. This is a marriage, essentially, that you’re getting into. So if you start with that apprentice, you think about, you know, in a business sense, all of the things that you want to make sure you know about the folks that you’re, you know, metaphorically getting into bed with. So you obviously want to know about their experience. You want to know about their support networks, whether two people raise money or, you know, bring on more people to help their project evolved. You want to know, you know, if they’ve had any, obviously, any criminal activity or anything like that, for sure, it also you want to find out about their plan. So, do they have a business plan or aa program plan? Do they have a fund-raising fran? Do they? You know, is there any money committed at this point already, like you guys mentioned before, that’s sort of ready to go if they’re able to get this that status, you know, those are the kinds of things that you really wantto dig into and understand, and that, you know a good official sponsor will have a pretty well defined application process that, you know, may have multiple rounds of interviews with the, you know, the staff of the mon for the board of the sponsor. In some cases, you know, like inside you, you do want ideally the board to make this decision or help you make this decision to take on these projects or even to start a sponsorship program because they are the end of the day, the one who’s, you know, they’re on the line at the end of the day, their fiduciary responsible for for the whole thing. So, you know, it should be you should at least have some input into that. Where do you see the responsibility for this do dilgence residing? Who does it? Treyz who i think who on the organization is doing it. So go ahead, and because usually the staff, you know, whoever it will be involved in working with the project from the path of the sponsor, would take the lead, maybe with some help from from some key boardmember okay, jean, did you have something more about through? Dilgence yeah, i just wanted wanted to add that it really is critical that the physical sponsor understand, particularly in the model see situation that there there one’s fund-raising forth the project, even though the project is housed in a different legal entity and that they’re going to make grants to they’re responsible for all the monies and all the responsibilities associated with the donors or the foundations, including e-giving a grant reports back to the foundations, and if it’s government funded the audit requirements that go along with that and that’s where you get the hefty, like the fifteen percent physical sponsorship administrative fees that andrew was talking about, government audits are incredibly difficult to do and expensive but fickle sponsor has got to be prepared to do all of that. They’ve got to make sure they’ve got adequate strapping to be ableto handle all of these and treat all of these is restricted funds and have all of the infrastructure, all the right policies over the right agreements, all of the right qualifications to do business if they’re in different states and registrations, you know, tony, you’ve got to be prepared to do all of that, and that made depend upon each project that they get, they may be incurring additional responsibilities that they’re going to think about on dh what if they what if they don’t do it right? Jean? What? What are what are some of the potential penalties were the worst thing that that happens is of course, the project gets into huge trouble, and they, you know, they engage in some sort of political activities and all of us and you jeopardize your own five twenty three status or a child has been hurt because of the negligence that they’ve got that have exhibited, and you don’t have enough adequate separation in the model c or it’s, a model a and its internal project of your physical sponsors. So you’re completely responsible for the liability, and you may find that you don’t have enough insurance because he went, anticipating those things and the bad if you weren’t really prepared for it. So those air the two worst case scenario. Ah, andrew. It sounds like you really should have some outside help and expertise. If you’re if you’re going to take this on. Well, i would i would recommend it. I mean, i think you especially if you’re doing it for the first time. So are a lot of people come to me or i’m sure jean when they’ve already got a couple of projects underneath, um, i say a lot of people get into this accidentally or at least unintentionally and, you know, like we said, they’re six weeks to do it right there’s a lot of ways to do it wrong on in the operation side of things and you know it, khun khun very quickly go from a really good thing, tio not so good thing in your whole team is now focusing all their attention on these projects and it sort of eating up all of their bandwidth on dso, you know, having some of those processes procedures in place on getting all those things set up is really important again, going back to the due diligence, the written contracts, i guess both of you have seen cases where it’s just been a handshake mary-jo absolutely, yeah, happened a lot. And then when when there’s a termination that happens, there’s a conflict about what? What should be done into who’s, you know, the funds belong to a lot of complexities when they don’t do it right at the start. Dahna andrew was something wanted ad about the downside of a handshake agreement. It’s well, i would i would just say that whether or not there’s a handshake or even a contract, you know, we’ve talked a lot about model a model see, and they are very specifically laid out, but what do you see out in the wild if there’s really a spectrum of how they operate? And some of them i’m not always done to the letter of the law and monsters don’t realize it, and, you know, some of the very long to get by obviously would recommend doing that if you don’t know what you’re doing, but it was really, you know, there’s a lot of variability out there, so if you are thinking of becoming a sponsor or you are a sponsor and you’re not sure you definitely want to talk to somebody who knows what they’re doing, gene, there is no legal definition to these right? That there’s no one legal, definitely fiscal sponsorship isn’t defined in any code or regulations, so cynical sponsorship. Is just referring to these relationship that are ultimately defined by the contract and that’s why you needed a written contract, because we need to know what relationship you actually have and the biggest, biggest thing, and where everything often goes wrong is misunderstanding that an outside legal entity other than the physical concert could not fund-raising for the project, even those of the individuals associated with it are fund-raising for the project, they are on ly doing so as agents of the physical sponsor. So the physical sponsor ultimately has control over all of the funds it is raising. And if it’s going to re grantham out, it’s going to re grantham out under its own legal discretion and subject to what they call all variant of powers in accounting language, basically saying that ultimately, the physical sponsors board has full control over them of those assets, subject to the purpose restrictions or timing restrictions that might be involved with the donations of the craft. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there because i think it’s ah, i think it’s appropriate to leave it on. Ah, sort of a note of caution. This certainly can do wonders for your charitable. Mission and your work, but i feel like what i’m sensing from from the two of you is you know, you got to do this right? So i’m going to sort of leave it on that cautious still a little bit of a finger wag that admonition tone that you probably need some expertise and you’ve got to make sure you do this correctly. Is that okay, gentlemen, anybody disagree with that? How can you? Okay, not at all. Okay, so i want to thank you very much. Andrew shulman. You’ll find him at shulman consulting dot com and at a m shulman and jean takagi editing the very popular non-profit law block dot com and he’s at g tak gt. Okay, gentlemen, thank you very, very much. Thanks, tony. Thanks, anders. Thank you so much. Have a good one. Pleasure. Thank you. Again. Next week, video storytelling and maria semple returns with deep pockets. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it. I’m tony martignetti dot com. I love our sponsors pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com regular cpas guiding you beyond the numbers. Weinger cps dot com kaplow’s accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez, and this very cool music is by scott stein. You’re with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine am or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address. Card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for July 28, 2017: 350th Nonprofit Radio

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s our three hundred fifty and show you heard that live music scott stein is with us and lots of other people. Thank you, scotty, you’re welcome. We’ve got two listeners of the week first. Dan kimble he’s, a product specialist at apple, owes software he’s always tweeting and retweeting aboutthe show very grateful. This week, he posted congrats to tony martignetti and his upcoming anniversary show, grateful for you’re and mr show, grateful for your promotion of non-profit work. Dan, i’m grateful to you for your support of non-profit radio. Thank you so much. Congratulations on being a listener the week on show number three hundred fifty also fund-raising fox they’re on the road right now between buffalo grove, illinois and downtown chicago. They tweeted that this will be great road trip listening to which i retorted, this is like an hour trip from buffalo grove to chicago that’s like that’s a commute? Not a not a, not a that’s, not a road trip, but okay, if you insist, maybe in chicago that’s a road trip congratulations. Fund-raising fox drive carefully even though you’re only going across the street, thanks for being with us on three fifty oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with copper. Oh, poor foreign yuria! If you wet me down with the idea that you missed today’s show, it is the three hundred fifty of show seventh anniversary of non-profit radio coast clear meyerhoff is with us with me live in the studio. We’ve got that live music and more to come give aways from pursuing and cure a coffee all our contributors jane takagi, maria semple and amy sample ward, our sponsor ceos are going to be with us. I’ve got new am and fm affiliate stations to introduce we got non-profit medio math quiz and i’m already exhausted. We’re on facebook live! Check us out right now from the tony martignetti non-profit radio page facebook live! We’re also live tweeting, join us! Use the hashtag non-profit radio on tony’s take two thank you. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com tomorrow half welcome back to the studio, tony. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Wonderful to be here for the three hundred and fiftieth show. Thank you. Yes, i love it. You’re the creative producer of the show. Of course. Thank you. I helped you start the show from one back when it was the tony martignetti show for two weeks back in the day two thousand ten also? Yes, of course. There’s a seventh anniversary seventeen minus ten seventh anniversary president of plant giving agency that’s me, you’ll find claire at pg agency, dot com and at claire says z what’s going on climber half what’s up in your what’s up in the pg agency. Well, we’re working on a lot of different projects. I’ve got a lot of wonderful clients and working with parkland hospital foundation in dallas. Cool, a couple of other clients in texas and a couple clients in florida and ah, united way and lots of different people. And i’m staying here in new york for a couple days of my friend bette’s house in westchester county, and i drove into the city this morning with the convertible top down and here i am, cool it’s a beautiful day for a top you drive to scott stein. Welcome back to studio. Thank you for having me. Great seeing my pleasure. Of course. Scott’s dying. The composer of our theme song. My voice is cracked theme song like i’m fourteen cheap red wine of course you’re gonna be playing cheap red wine on dh another wine related song as well you’ll find him at scott stein music dot com don’t go to scott’s stein dot com i did that that somebody it’s an australian motivations motivational speaker don’t go to stop sign dot com go to scott’s in-kind music dot com and he’s at scott’s time music also so glad you’re with us. Great beer. Cool. Cool. Uh, we got, uh we got track record on the phone. He is the ceo of pursuant to years, sponsor of non-profit radio. The renewing way with us to the end of the year. So grateful for that. So so grateful for pursuance, sponsorship and love of non-profit radio trade ryker, welcome to the show. Tony. How you doing today? It’s? Great it’s. A beautiful day for three. Fifty how are you doing in where you from? In texas. Where? You calling from? I’m in the dallas area. The big d. Okay, cool. I want to thank you. I want to thank you so much. Not only for being here today, but for pursuing sponsorship of non-profit radio. Well, tell me, first of all, congratulations. Three hundred fifty episodes. What a milestone. Unbelievable. We appreciate so much. See great work that you and the other sponsors provide the opportunity for you to do for the non-profit states your gift way. Love what you do, and they’re just proud to be a sponsor. Thanks, tony. Thank you so much, trent. Um, you you are so generous at pursuing there’s there’s. This constant resource is available. I mean, i’m talking about them every single week. It’s webinars info. Grams. Content papers? Uh, it’s it’s. Amazing how generous you are. What? What? Acquaintance with what’s coming up for pursuing the rest of this year. Well, a lot going on. Thank you for that. We really believe in giving back the non-profit states in any way. We can. We learn a lot by working with our clients were in partnership with them always. We’re always thirsty. Learn mohr and then share what we learn. Through a variety of webinars and white papers and other things that we do, no matter how large or how small you are, we’re hopeful ableto help some folks out, you know, for the second half of the year, we’ve been working hard on something that over the years we’ve learned things. One of the things that i think most important is that the smaller non-cash profits that don’t have the resources to hyre firms to help him out of that at a deep level, we’re trying to make some of those tools more accessible youand your listeners have known that we’ve been working on that for a while, wade got some exciting things on the horizon to make better sense of all that data out there that that folks have and be able to make that more actionable and getting better results without having that we’re not having to spend a lot of money, so we’re driven by by creating tools, you know, i think that that’s an opportunity out there right now, there’s more competition than ever out there for the same dollars and stay on top of mind for your constituents and being able to keep up. In that to a conversation is really important, and while there are a lot of great point tools out there would like to call them, and we encourage everybody to use things like that that are free or very inexpensive with non-profit states being able to pull that data together being ableto you have the appropriate relevant conversations to your here’s donors and your prospects and volunteers on your advocate, you are really important so that some of the stuff we’re working on cool and, you know, small and midsize non-profits that’s the audience, you know, where we’re big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, and i’m always saying every week, actually, a couple times a week pursuant data driven technology enable ana, i know and that’s that’s a big no that is a challenge area for small and midsize shops. Yeah, not always accessible, i think you know the big non-profits have a lot more resources, and while we appreciate the opportunity to work with them and learn from them, i’m really driven for the drive system for the quote unquote little guy, the small, the medium sized non-profit that’s passionate about what they’re doing and that most of the time spent, you know, driving for the mission of the organization and fund-raising is an important aspect of that, but how do we make that more simple? How do we make it more accessible? How do we make it more affordable? And so i think that the market will be really excited about some of the stuff that we’ll be bringing out twenty eighteen by way of tools to apply all of that. We’re taking the concepts that you hear out there about business intelligence and artificial intelligence, predictive modeling, and we’re going to simplify that to make it as easy as the way you might use google maps and make it easy for the smaller, medium sized non-profit put it to use and to raise more money and more connected to their constituents. That’s what’s really important, excellent trench. Well, i look forward to sharing the word of all that stuff as it comes out with our with our audience with our over twelve thousand growing on die again. I know you’ve got to go and i thank you very much again for your support of non-profit radio. Thanks so much for being with us, trent. Congratulations, tony. And everybody out there keep supporting tony and the great work that he does. Keep up the good work for your non-profit have a great show, tony, and keep up. Keep it going. All right. Cool. Thank you very much, trent. So long. All right. We’re gonna go out for a first break. We got tons more coming up. Oh, my god. We’re just scratching the surface for god’s sake. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent reminded we’re on facebook live got some folks with us shout out tio maria simple is there dave lynn, thank you so much. Uh, who else we got? Gary astro cool welcome shoutouts to facebook live! You can join us at the tony martignetti non-profit radio page were also live tweeting used the hashtag non-profit radio. Join the conversation on twitter um, we got a we got to give away let’s do a giveaway we’ve got got coffee gif ts from cura coffee and we’re giving our first pound of coffee too silver mark he’s at this is ah, his twitter idea at silver mark make-a-wish did three hundred fifty is awfully nifty returns of the day for those great things you say i mean, you know that’s, you got to give you got to give some kudos for creativity not great! Those are not great lyrics, but that’s just our okay cheats memorable! I think he may have used it may be recycled. He may have used that for another contest. I don’t know, but that silver mark, thank you so much you’re going to get a pound of coffee from cura coffee and claire, won’t you tell us about your coffee? Cure a coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. With every cup of courage, you’re joined your effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. We are direct trade, a direct trade coffee company with direct impact brought directly to you, creating organic smiles beyond the cup. Cure coffee, dotcom. Thank you, claire. In that beautiful radio voice, she’s got that. She talked pretty talk pretty good. My abc radio cbs radio serious. You left off serial. I work too serious. Serious. Next time. Don’t be modest. I was then except when they launched on september twelfth, two thousand won cool. Oh, that xero auspicious. That you know that and i get it. You know, again shadow to cure a coffee. Coffee. The ceo is a dentist. He’s practicing dentist that’s. Why? When you get a pound of cure a coffee that’s, why they when you get a compound of your coffee, the gift goes, goes to silver. Mark will include a toothbrush and i think luke’s dental floss. But there’s aural. Care? Yes, because that’s. Why, he says. He says expanding sustainable dental care to remote communities they’re they’re giving back to the communities where the coffee beans are raised. Dental care, they’re giving money for dental care in those communities, communities and in central and south america. On he is a he’s a practicing dentist. He couldn’t be with us. I beg him to couldn’t make it he’s between patients, you know, he’s doing a root canals. You know, it’s got saliva around everything all right? Um, scotty, you cannot i want you to play first song for us. Sure. Um again, scott scott stein, now a pianist, songwriter, vocalist, composer, arranger tell us what you’re gonna play first. I’m gonna play a tune from the record that i just put out just a little bit ago the records called travelling companion and the song is called wine soaked tart we’re keeping ah, wine theme here we do. We got cheap red wine, wine soaked tart. People are going to get the wrong impression of me here, you know, but it’s ah it’s a little tune that way have this idea that as songwriters in his artist we have to be, you know, really down in the dumps to really, like, create great music, you know, you have to really be eo, suffer for your art and it’s not true. It helps it’s, not total teacher. But this is something that is not what kind of zooming out and kind of, you know, being grateful for for what you have i was i was on honeymoon with my wife when i woke up in the middle of the night with the idea for the song, okay? And scott stein, wine soaked heart off his newest album, traveling companion. Dahna i love what you give me. You lying so tired, let me ramble through the square like this september breeze is used to know, nor would you give me your line so tar, let me pull it all together. Then they pull my fuse, paul. Sametz it’s six in the morning and i can’t sleep. It was lying about a strange hotel bed. Buy-in sounds of my lover. Do not keep me waiting. Just the ryland to the rumblings bouncing around inside my head. I what would you give me your wine? So tar, let me revel, sing in the shadow of the spanish hill. You know what, give you wine so let me pull it all together. Limit my fuse part. It’s been a long time coming, but we made it here going to step out on the block, and the noise is going to get off the grid. Tune out everybody but the one i love. Let the world revolve around us like a couple of barefoot kid. Oh, yeah. Love to give me a wine. So tar buy-in let me ram on the land of the authors in the poet it’s on the scene. Lorts give you wine. So tar. Let me pull it all together to limit my bar for my future. Call it predictable. I don’t care. U b roll footage. Cue the montage here. The movie strings. You only get so many years. Be so self aware before the exterior starts to fade in. On this left are the important thing. Duitz because you want forever with a wild, wild heart. What would you give me your line? So tar? So down, breathing him. Don’t try to think so much law to give me a line. So tar, let me pull it all together. My fuse, par. Put my fears apart. Buy-in got stein one so tart thie album is traveling companion. Get the album at scott stein music dot com scottie, thank you so much. Thank you, absolutely love it, love it and there’s more to come. We got we got course, cheap red wine coming up, indulge me while i announce a couple of new affiliate stations. Would you please? All right. W p h w in harpswell, maine live listener love to you. Ah, philly. In effect, i should say affiliate affections to w p h w so glad you’re with us. They’re in the freeport brunswick area of maine, just northeast of portland. Welcome. Welcome to the affiliate community. W p h w also cabe og ki bong ninety seven point nine fm in bandon, oregon. And that is oregon, not oregon. There’s no. E at the end of oregon, oregon offgrid admonished it’s, oregon. Brandon, oregon. There are pacifica station that’s. Very cool on. They happen to be all along the pacific coast in county, oregon. Now, why’re they k bog. I found out k bog glamarys come off cranberries. Very organ is a very big cranberry producing state. Really? And this region of of oregon is bandon is the cranberry capital of oregon. Really cool. Have you been to argue? Okay, bob, i’ve been to oregon. I’ve been to portland. I’m joined a portland for the organ for the first time this october. And then i will only have two states in the us. I have not visited well, that’s very and north when you’re so young through so i need to oh, thank you. I need to get a speaking engagement in alaska and in alaska, north dakota. Okay, that should be well. North dakota is easy, one for you. North dakota sametz least visited st in united states. Listen, alaska people threat well, the glaciers that while there, while we have them, okay, that that’s very cool, you’re going tohave portland. You’re really a great food scene. Great fruiting, love, ah, really quirky place. So our new affiliate stations w p h w and k b o g. Welcome to the affiliate community affiliate affections to those listeners. I’ve got more stations coming up. We got jean takagi on the line. I know we do. Jean takagi is the principle of neo, the non-profit exempt organizations. More group he’s at g tak e ta ke yet it’s. The wildly popular non-profit lob log dot com. Hello, jean takagi. Happy anniversary, tony. Congratulations on three. Fifty. Thank you, man. That’s so cool. Thank you very much. I’m so glad you’ve been with us so so many years from the very early days you were you were one of the very first shows, like you were in, like the first, fourth or fifth show or so and, uh, contributor sense. Really geever it’s been awesome, but you have to come back and visit me here in san francisco. I know. Well, you should come. You know, you could come to new york. I did visit you once in san francisco years ago. But you could come to new york, too. That invitation is open. You could come to the beach in north carolina if you like peaches. That’s tony’s having a big, fat oregon. Maybe we can all meet there in oregon. That’s. Not too far. Yeah, but i’m thinking about a fall trip, actually out west. So i will. I will let you know. Just you know, jeanne, i i emailed this to you a lot, but i want to say it to you. You know, i’m so grateful for the time that you put in for the listeners. Of small from small and non-profit med small and midsize shops it’s a non-profit radio so grateful for the time contribution you make, you know, month after month, you red block posts about the show. When you’re gonna be on, you’re a terrific i just i’m so grateful to have you as our legal contributor. Thank you so much, james. Thank you, tony. Thank you for making all of this information from all of your great contributors available. Teo non-profit sector it’s it’s. Invaluable. Thank you. Uh, what do you got going on, gene? But you got a little little takeaway. Will tip you wanna leave? Leave us with? Sure. You know, i thought i’d talk really briefly about having a politician appear in your charity event. We recently had way did have someone forced chamber. Yeah, it got a lot of attention, so i didn’t talk about that specifically wanted to make sure everybody knew that political leaders can be invited to speak on issues of public policy and issues of importance that charity events. But you’ve got to be careful about it, so make sure you know five oh one see threes aren’t allowed to engage in election. Nearing, so provide instructions to the politicians or their staff, people about not campaign campaigning or speaking on political campaign issues. Uh, you know, at the charity event, and if they start campaigning, you might choose to interrupt politely and strategically, if possible. You know, sometimes that may not be possible if it’s the president of the united states, that might be very, very politically challenging to do that. But afterwards, don’t wait long at the end of the speech of possible make a statement about the charity being a partisans uh, organization don’t wait several days and have the statement come from the top of your leadership. So jean, what is the worst case scenario that could happen to a five a one? C three non-profit if, for instance, a candidate came and super campaigned and broke all those rules and you didn’t do anything about it, what’s what could happen? What’s the outcome right now, the rules say the remedy is taking away its five a onesie three tax exempt status so that’s the rule you know, right now in the political climate, president trump and the republican party platform say that they want to get rid of that rule, but they haven’t gotten rid of that ruled yet, so they would actually like to open up election hearing toe all five, twenty three public charities. But that hasn’t happened yet, and it may never happen. We hope that it doesn’t happen, but the rule right now don’t let it happen because you could lose your tax. Exempt that claire’s got another question for another question. Have you heard about a cherry that has lost its tax exempt status? Because of that? Yeah, it happens pretty rarely and particularly much more rarely. I haven’t heard of any since the new administration. But you would see a handful every year lose their tax exempt status for just that reason. Okay. Interesting. Cool. Very timely topic as always. Jean jean takagi, always on top of things s oh, so grateful, gene. Thank you so much. Thanks. What a pleasure. Thanks, tony. Thanks, clarence. Got have a great thank you. Thanks for your good wishes. So long, gene. We got we got alex career alt-right not not yet. Okay, we’ll get to him. Um, let’s. Um, let’s. Take our little break. Then we got we got we got a little business. Actually, but we have tons of stuff coming up. You still got the math quiz? We got more giveaways. I got morning am and fm stations. We got live listener love coming up. I gotta do the live listening. But look at this for those of us, those on facebook like this list of live listeners amazing it’s a scrolling off the printer, the live listeners we’ve got. And, of course, on the heels of that comes the affiliate affections on the podcast pleasantries, cheap red wine coming up all that first you got to give a shout to pursuant we know them. We just met the ceo but i got eggs. I got to do my promotional thing because i do want you to check them out for the free resource. Is that that trade? And i were talking about infographics, content, papers, webinars. And even even if it’s paid trainings and we have a great prize coming up great grand prize that’s all i am permitted to say at this moment about the grand prize but it’s related to this? Just check them out for resource is tons of stuff for free. They are data driven. It’s it’s. Not just a tagline for them. They help you work with data sorted out, figured out, use it, so you’re not overwhelmed. Check him out. Pursuing dot com quick resource is all the stuff is right there, and we’ll be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. They make millennial money, these air, these air really cool. Claire, they it’s a night for your charity, it’s, live music, dancing, stand up comedy, and they work in fund-raising through spelling bee that’s fun, because millennials are really spelling peer-to-peer. The resident millennial. I feel like i have to confirm this, okay, when you write your lyrics, they’re spelled correctly, yes, what, nobody sigh, and nobody sees them, right. Okay, check out they have a video, they’re really cool. Video show you what a night is like for your charity, it’s, that we b e spelling dot com and then just talked to alexx career, and hopefully we’re gonna be talking to him shortly. And i gotta do tony steak to now, which is my thank you too the way it goes from the people who are just with us today live on facebook hello, thank you for that. But the listeners the over twelve thousand listeners i’m just so grateful that the audience has grown so much in seven years. Thank you, thank you for being part of non-profit radio the trend is always upwards. I’m grateful for that if you let me in your inbox every thursday through the insider alerts, which if you’re not getting them, you can get them at tony martignetti dot com. Thank you for letting me in your inbox every single week. If it’s youtube our fans, their subscribers, they’re on youtube there’s a new video every week twitter, thanks so much for following me reach meeting this show tweeting about the show just enormous, enormously grateful i just got us you know this is an anniversary time to time to say thank you, thanks so much. And speaking of the latest video aside from the three fiftieth which you don’t need now because you got to show you don’t need the previous video, you might check. Out the one that i did most recently before that it was feels good in sixty nine and that’s all i can say about that video, you just have to watch to see what the sixty nine is all about. And, of course, that’s at tony martignetti dot com feels good in sixty nine, and that is tony stick to we got maria simple online. I’ll bet we don’t have a reassembly yet. Wow. Okay, i’ll tell you what, let’s do a little math quiz clay morrow, because i’m really good at math. So exactly, um, and i’m a lawyer. So we picked a non-profit radio math quiz. So you know, we’re gonna sing a song writer writer on dh lawyer, former engineering student i story story for you to bring your slide rule uh, i can not write. Or your engineer, you may need your engineering calculator for those. Ok. Ok. So here’s here’s the math quiz? Because tony’s been doing this show for a long time now, since since twenty ten, it’s a lot of shows that he’s very prolific. We have three hundred fifty shows, so i’d like to kind of figure out some things that some numbers that we’ve accomplished over the years. So would you say how many guests average per show phone and live in studio? Yeah. Live in studio and then plus you gotta bring in the conference guests. I mean, sometimes there’s like three and four panellists. I’d say average. Okay, average, uh, one point seven three let’s. Say two. Okay, let’s round it. So three hundred eighty shows. Two guest per show we have. Who gets it first? How many is that? I hope that i hope that some hope that seven hundred, seven hundred okay, so how many steps are there to climb up the stairs from seventy second west? Seventy second street to the studio here. Oh, you could take the staircase around here. I do it all the time. How many steps? Which is saying? Oh, sam, sam sametz again. Twenty. So twenty steps, times two hundred fifty shows is that’s. Got to be that’s. Gotta be the same. Seven thousand fifty seven thousand. Scott so you did bring a slide rule? I yes. Yes. It’s right in here. All right, all right, all right. So, tony and scott, how many times during each show would you say scott’s music is played during each show. Oh, that’s a cool oh, that’s like how many times is the number one appear on a dollar bill? One, two, three for i’d say it’s probably five. I’m thinking five so what’s time to a two hundred fifty. I don’t know the seven, seventeen, fourteen hundred plus three. Fifteen degree was kottler against that’s got with all right. All right, i swear i’m not i’m not just like peeking over the over the engineering because a ringer is i didn’t know that, it’s. All right? I don’t know. Who’s going to bring her. Okay. How many times have you taken the show on the road? Oh, my gosh! Conferences. Oh, that’s. Probably like, i’m afraid that’s an easy one. Well, ten. So let’s say eleven. So what percentage i can’t even do? The percentage of eleven of the three hundred fifty shows are were shows on the road but you cut me off the delays. I get more than one interview per unconference less now last non-profit technology cover. That was twenty, thirty two interviews in one conference. So there’s thirty two right there, right in three, two and half days. I got thirty two interviews, i’d say probably come away with twenty times eleven conferences. That will be two hundred twenty interviews out of no, that can’t be right. Two hundred twenty. That sounds too high. No that’s. Not right. What am i doing wrong? It’s probably not that high it’s probably it’s. Probably been like one hundred. Oh, those air segments that you’re messing me up. Segments two segments per show. So seven hundred segments. Two hundred let’s. Say, two hundred something two hundred twenty five of those maybe have been conferences or so two hundred out of seven hundred segments. Okay, so the last questions for may out of seven years of shows, i probably come and do it live. Maybe, like, three times a year. So i’ve been here maybe twenty one times. Uh, yeah. In the early days. Yeah. You’re blowing me off in the early days? No, i invited you all time. You never came up? No, i yeah, don’t twenty more. That sounds like a lot. And you know, the last time i was here in the studio, i left tony and i saw another man who works in broadcasting. I met someone. Really? Really. Cool. Right after i left tony show. Oh, you met lester. Lester holt? Yeah, i went down to nbc and lester home. You’ve treated me a picture. You facebook me a picture of you and lester. So today stepped down, you know, the talking alternative studios where we are live on nbc, and then i guess you could go down, continue going down on the show to last. So what are you doing in new york? I said i have clients here and stuff like this came from this non-profit radio show. Oh, and cause i realized later that lester worked in radio. So radio people like even if they end up working in tv or whatever, they still really love stick todo zoho he’s. His eyes lit up when i said, ready brady was cool. Absolutely, absolutely. All right. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for the non-profit. Your math quiz created, produced. This is what she’s, the creative producer. Well, what a surprise. No surprise. Came up with this last night. Like eleven. Thirty my maria semple, decide your simple cold. And i was actually calling on her a little early because she was not at fault when i said maria symbols online, but she is now anyway. Fremery a sample. Hello there, how are you our social media contributor? Immense. I’m sorry prospect restarts contributor. I’m doing great, our prospect research contributors. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and she’s at maria semple on, and she has been a long standing oh gosh, but going back also many years hyre contributor to non-profit radio. Thank you, maria, thank you so much for the time you put in a month after month for our listeners. Thanks so much for my pleasure and congratulations on three hundred fifty and looking forward to three hundred fifty more. Oh oh, my god, they’ll be seven hundred. Okay, i don’t know what i’ll be another seventy years. Oh, my god will be forty. What is that? Twenty, twenty four? Um now cool. Where you now? Where you calling from? Maria semple? I am in new jersey. You’re home in jersey, okay, cool. Very simple loves the new song you facebook live. Do you love scott’s new song? Thank you. Yes, i did. I really liked it a lot. I’m gonna have to go see where i can find it. I think he said it was scott stein music dot com. So i jot that down that’s exactly right. And get the album. Traveling companion. Yeah, she lives out facebook live. All right. Um, summary of you. You got a little tidbit for us today in respect, research land. What do you see? It’s one on there? Yeah, well, you know, i thought it was just kind of focused on teamwork a little bit because, uh, sort of staying in the spirit of, you know, your three hundred fifty shows wouldn’t have happened with without a lot of teamwork there in the studio and from your regular contributors and so forth and all the conferences you’ve attended and really focusing on how important prospect researches to the development process. But that really it’s only one component of the development process on and really try to encourage folks if if you’re wearing that, that prospect research had either as a your sole function within the organization, or maybe one of the functions that you do and your everyday job to try not to work in a vacuum and to try and get a seat at the table. If you can try and see if you will be allowed to attend those development committee meetings and so forth to really play a role in the overall development cycle so that information that you’re able to glean from important conversations can be incorporated into the work that you d’oh alright, it takes a village. It takes a village, is what you’re saying. I think it takes a community text community to raise money and number, and, well, of course, non-profit radio is a part of that, but so is prospect research. All right, the team approach i love thank you for shouting out the team. We do have a great team. We do have an excellent, cool team. I shot them out of the end of every show. Claire scott, sam. Oh, our social media, social media, of course. Social media, susan chavez, all part of the team. Yes, thank you for that. Thank you so much. Cool. Maria, i want to thank you so much again for being part of the show. Thank you very much. And again, wishing you many, many more. Thank you, maria. I gotta give shut out to people who are with us on facebook live. We got we got tons more still. Aunt mary. I know her on david insta with us. Gary astro jimbo xero welcome, jim dahna gillespie rivera ray meyer mary-jo chamberlain michelle libonati oh, my god. Old good friends. Thank you. Thanks for being with us. You could join us on facebook live at tony martignetti non-profit radio page and we’re also live tweeting and use the hashtag non-profit radio. Is that true? That’s true, isn’t it? Um, let’s. See, we got a make on line. Scott. Sam. Any buy-in the line? Okay, then, uh, let’s. Go to i got some new ah, so new affiliate stations and i’d like to welcome. We’ll continue bilich community absolutely am fm stations throughout the country. We got a new one. Que tiene que eighty eight point one fm carbondale, colorado and w c s q one o five point nine fm radio coble skill in upstate new york. I know. That you know, couples skill. Well, i went to plattsburgh state, so i know you would know. Yeah, i know. Yes. Did you know is it’s uh, you know, that’s coble skill, not kabul skill. It’s it was called didn’t know. I didn’t know that i do now, but it’s spelled like kabul, but it’s coble told only one day only one b all right, thank you very much. Like right would be no e at the end of oregon. Okay, you’re right. Couple would be all right. My gobble kabul it’s coble it’s called bilich latto global scale koegler and i’m so glad they’re with us that’s w c s q one o five point nine fm andi i know couple skills. I got a ticket there once. Yeah, it doesn’t. Eighty eight, i think route eighty eight. I don’t know. Interesting fremery take out there, but i’ve got to take a lot of other places in upstate. You got you got a tear, right? Hearing even all the good places. Saratoga, you got a parking ticket right here on seventy second street after one show. That’s a parking ticket that was parking moving violations, or you’re in the big time. Yeah, i did get one. You’re you’re coping skill. I’m pretty sure it was on eighty eight. You gotta hire a lawyer when you get a speeding ticket. That’s the best thing to do. I had to do that once, actually in virginia? Yep. Virginia. You know what? Because anything over eighty, of course, that was not me. I saw it on a sign. But if you happen to be one who was pulled over for dui strike more than eighty is reckless driving. I’ve been there. You get you get a misdemeanor. You know, mr metoo convey. Imagine if you sign the back of that ticket. Mr metoo conviction in virginia for doing over more than twenty miles per hour over the speed limit or over eighty miles per hour. But you could. So i’ve heard you can hire an attorney. You know, they send you letters and for a very reasonable about they’ll take care of it. And the lawyer that took care of mine, i chose his letter out of about twenty letters because his name was will robinson. Oh, cool. Thank will robinson. I didn’t get that was virginia. That was virginia. Virginia. I didn’t get here because i would have picked him through. Thank you. Will robinson? Yes. Be careful in virginia on ninety five. I’ve heard it could be bad. So, yes, eso brand new stations now in main oregon, colorado in new york. So lots of new affiliate affections going out when? When we get to that. So so many affiliates do we have a terrestrial radio? Couple dozen. I really don’t know the exact number. Look where they ended up partying more than twenty. Woman. Twenty. So a score score was more than a score. We gotta score. Plus more than stone. Just don’t get that matthew’s teo what’s that teo give our leaders. Tio penn was that old word for a for a ten cent piece. Whatever a dime in the tie. I can’t remember to bits. We got to bet your two bits worth of that isn’t isn’t cubine oh, is it that those dying what’s two bits i don’t want it was a dime. Now two bits a quarter. We’re almost a two bit we could were around to putting wimpy say, it’s worth burglar hamburger um okay, let’s. See, uh, i want to i want to. Do some more music. Yeah, i’m ready for more music. Scotty stein. Oh, it’s, time for the time, for the theme of non-profit latto now, this is this is legit. I never stole this music from scott start. We have, we have no way of really license, license and he’s been with the show ever since. It’s a couple of years now, you know, i didn’t go back and look at when the licensing agreement started, but if you have been a few years, yeah, cheap red wine, this is scott’s dying cheaper what what’s the album, the cheaper ones snusz from a two thousand nine record, i did called jukebox and get their jukebox. I’ve seen him live ilsen him in and bars clubs. I’ve seen him do cheap red wine a few times. Scott stein, the theme song for non-profit radio, cheap red wine, all right. To be, they just keep on talking sooner. Later, i figure around just so what you mean. You see, in romantic advice from a village, i’m looking for answers upon a tv screen. Buy-in wait can agree on nothing. We can’t tell our ups from our downs. We’re disappointed in each other. Nothing baby. And i love that we have found. You know, you used to find me charming, but i can’t figure out how. And you said you thought it was handsome. But doesn’t matter now. So keep falling. Five foot sounds as long as your time. Well, because i haven’t got any promises about a cheap one and down. You know, some girls live in diamonds. And they won’t talk to the cut of clothing that i wear. Well, i’m reporting for the good stuff, and you’re too easily distracted to care, relying got too many options, and so i’m gonna do the best that i can, but you have some competition one day when i’m a wealthy man said, you know, you used to find a job, but i can’t figure out how you see your toes, and it doesn’t matter now. So came falling from my post as loans. Your time will allow, because i’ve got a runny promises by achi, brenna wine and wait let’s, raise the glasses. You drink the better days. The other people’s kids are. They don’t like the things we say, and i’m thinking, because of everything that i want flash nothing. Three signs his work permit for each other, as long as with you, nobody else in my nobody’s way. What? You know, you used to find the jumping, but i can’t figure out how and you see, your father was handsome. Never mind it. Don’t matter now, so get for from a punch on monday, tom. Allow about her any promises, a cheaper one. Teo. Yeah, man, that song is under my skin. I can’t help it. I just love i just love cheap red wine from the first moment i heard i knew it had to be the thing that theme song thank you so much. Thank you for your, you know, for communion to have me on and getting congratulations every fifty and, uh, you know, supporting local independent music. Absolutely. Absolutely love it. Thank you. I’m glad you’re part of the show chanpreet out every time. Every time we got we got alex career alex were called and he’s the ceo of we’d be spelling you hear me? Talk about it every single every single week. Super cool spelling bee fundraisers we be spelling dot com. Hey, alex. Career. Hey, what’s up. Tony, how you doing? I’m doing great. How are you? I’m doing fantastic. Thanks so much for having me on for the three hundred and fifty of the exciting stuff. Absolutely. I just wanted to hear you tell people. You know, in your own words what we be spelling is all about, and i’m grateful that you’re part of the show week after week after week. So, you know, give us give us the short version. What? What? What tell me about we’d be spelling absolutely. So we’d be selling the lifetime of game show. We have a live band with comedian judges. What we do is we take this wacky event repair with non-profit and we use it a za fundraiser. So we start peer-to-peer campaigns with all of the spellers. They raised a bunch of money like marathon runners in the lead up to the event. And we come together. We have ah, party of an event that it’s spelling bee only in name, but feels a lot more like comedy. Game show. Yes, cool! I love that it’s all it’s, all entertainment i’m you know i’m always saying, is that it’s not your seventh grade fundez not your seventh grade spelling bee, not you. It is not your grandmother’s, not your grandmother spelling that. What do you got coming up? Anything exciting? Going share? Yeah, so we’ve been really busy this year. We’ve been doing about two to three events a month from the top of the year axel next big event is august twenty third in brooklyn were going to be part of the brooklyn comedy. Festival so that’s a really fun event we’re partnering with. They tell you to raise the money at a big event with a whole bunch of comedians participating in fellers that august twenty third at union pool in williamsburg, brooklyn. Excellent. Excellent. Yes, and it’s a night for your charity, it’s ah, it’s fund-raising for your charity individually. S o you know, check out the video. We be e spelling dot com and then just talked to alexx. I mean, you could see what a what a what a cool guy is, right? I mean, it’s, no trouble. No trouble. All right. Appreciate it, alex. My pleasure. Thank you for calling in. Thanks so much for being part of the show. For your sponsorship. Of course. In two to three hundred fifty and three hundred fifty more shows. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Let’s. Go teeny sample war. Who? Thank you. Thank you. Alex let’s, go to any sample ward. I know she’s on. Hello, amy. Sample ward. How are you? Hello. I’m doing well. Congrats on three. Fifty. Thank you. Aimee semple ward, our social media contributor. Ceo of intend the non-profit technology network. She’s at amy rs. Ward the ours for rene. Um and thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, i can’t believe that. I mean, i remember five years ago getting to be on the show. Can you believe that it’s been five years? I know you were on your guest on the one hundredth. You’re a guest on the one hundred, and then i just fell in love with the whole idea of prospect of sorry mixing him up social media and being on the show every single month. And, uh, yeah, two hundred fifty shows ago. It’s. Amazing. I know. Five years. Absolutely. So. So, you know, there are there were tools that didn’t exist five years ago that now we get to talk about on the show. Indeed, there were indeed there were so glad so. And let me say to you, i am grateful for the time that you put in every month to educate non-profit radio listeners in small and midsize non-profits thank you so much. Amy really means a lot to me. Thank oh, my god. It’s. My pleasure to get to share. Cool. Thanks. You give us. We just got a minute or so. Give us something you’d like to share. Well, one thing that i was thinking about that i will not put any any political commentary around, but i was reflecting earlier this morning about being on the show, talking about social media five years ago. And would we have ever thought five years ago that we would have politicians using the same tools that organizations are using right, like, five years ago, it was such a difference reality when it came to that, and now it’s normal, that articles would be quoting a tweet or a facebook post or facebook live stream, you know, from from d c i think it’s really interesting what that will mean going forward? Yeah, i think five years ago, politicians were just kind of figuring out whether twitter is something they should put their name on, is it? Is it safe for me to be associated with this platform now? It’s zits fundamental and you’re way behind if you’re not, you know? Yeah, i mean, we have, you know, elected officials using facebook live stream when there, you know, doing presentations on the floor, how does that change their relationship to their constituents? I think i think it would mean a lot. Get shifted pretty quickly. Okay, cool. Wait, what did you have something you want to know? We got it. Okay, we gotta let me go and we’re happy. Three. Thank you, thank you so much. Thanks for being part of the show. Amy. Of course. Thanks, amy, and we got to go to a break. When we come back, we’ve got got more giveaways. We got live. Listen, love podcast, pleasant she’s, an affiliate, affections. You gotta hang around, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trans sounded life that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i am his niece, carmela. And i am his nephew, gino. Ah! My niece’s name is carmela. Come on, that was carmela and gino metal, niece and nephew there. Now they’re not yet there. Now thirteen and eleven, they’re italian. Let’s, give something right there. A little talent, let’s. Give something away. I got some more cure a coffee. Um and this time it’s going to seth perlman. Ah he’s at s j perlman p r l m a n and he tweeted better, brighter, bolder broadcasts for those who give back yeah, you know that’s an attorney that’s, that’s that’s about what you’re gonna get. You know, i know it’s great just writing for a living. No such problem not very good and i’m grateful for him tweeting out and using the hashtag non-profit radio three fifty for today’s show. So we’re sending him a pound of bolder kira coffee for seth perlman. Claire cura coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee dean’s. With every cup of cure, you join our effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world. We are a direct trade coffee company with direct impact brought directly to you, creating organics miles beyond the cup. Cura coffee dot com your coffee dot com love them. Thank you so much, cura, for sponsoring those two giveaways and we got a grand prize to give. Away the grand prize is going to cheapen cole she’s at non-profit chapin and she tweeted for today’s show congrats to tony martignetti on celebrating non-profit radio three fifty seven years of enriching inspiring content on an amazing podcast exclamation mark thank you! Thank you so much. We got the grand prize for you and that is a seven part webinar training siri’s sponsored by pursuant are our sponsor. I hope they’re not at their sponsoring. Too many eyes not distribute the sponsorship dollars too broadly. I mean, don’t forget non-profit radio for god’s sake. Claire, what about that? What about that seven port? Serious? Well pursue it is proud to sponsor a seven part webinar siri’s with some of the world’s top fund-raising experts, including gael perry from fired-up fund-raising the donor relations guru lynn wes for simon scribe er from change fund-raising leah eustis s f r ee and founder of blue canoe see change strategies founder mark rovner and a rachel muir c f r ee what’s that stand for cfr certified fund-raising executive and then there is also a c f r ee what’s that advanced certified fund-raising and then there’s and then there’s double advance. D a c f r double advanced, which and then it has an asterisk at the end too. And then you drop a footnote at the bottom of the page and it says that you’re super sort of fundchat yes, so go for the cfr, which i just made up. In fact, it looks like dale perry. Looks like cal perry just joined us on now. Hey, just join us on facebook. Hello, gail pantry. So joined lisa martin game and joined hello, lisa. Jeff lane joined wow, let’s vote for lots of friends from and vot nor the value altum pan high school. Thank you so much, jeff. Lisa um, panda reso mary-jo chamberlain didn’t realize this show had so much math. Now, this is a special because it’s got a three, five zero in the title. So not to worry come back and not a lot. Nothing so much math every time greg rajic am i going to saying no, no, i was left thinking you did mind you don’t mind my lip sync when you were singing it all now and listen if you want to sing harmony like you know what does that mean? I have jack in jail, jack in jail, not proper radio jock in jail, i don’t know. Not sure harmony is normally the lyrics is that what the lyrics is now it’s like when you sing, when people sing together, one sings like the team, the melody and the harmonies, like another part, like the background, or sometimes what’s the lyrics what’s that what’s that i hear the words that’s, the word zoho fancy way to say it works the melodies, the tune this is why i have drug in jail. Um, i like to write the words first and then i do the lyrics after let’s do live listen alone using one minute. So what? The end of the show home? My god, no, no, alright, live! Listen love, i can’t do i can’t doing languages look at this live love! I’ve got to get out besides everybody on facebook, shalem, malaysia, seoul, south korea padano dune yano, italy thanks for being with us. Italy, brazil, austria, germany non-cash yang, china let’s bring it into the u s new york, new york multiple in new york city, potomac. Marilyn brooklyn, new york. Stuart scott stein, who hails from oakland. 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If you missed any part of today’s show where i beseech you, as i do every week find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling. The fundraisers we b e spelling dotcom are creative producers. Claire meyerhoff sam league rules is the line producer shows social media’s by susan chavez. Our music is by scott stein of brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? 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Nonprofit Radio for July 21, 2017: Look Good To Creditors & What Boards Get Wrong

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Paula Park: Look Good To Creditors

Loan? Credit line? Bond issue? Paula Park reveals how to impress creditors when you’re knocking on their door for money. She’s senior vice president at BankUnited.

 

 

 

Gene Takagi: What Boards Get Wrong

Gene Takagi

You may have heard rumors that your board isn’t perfect. We’ll run through the most glaring offenses you need to look out for. Gene Takagi is our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent get excited for next week it’s our three hundred fiftieth show seventh anniversary i’ll say more in a few minutes and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into psych ataxia if i tried to focusing on the idea that you missed today’s show look good to creditors loan credit line bond issue pull a park reveals how to impress creditors lenders when you’re knocking on their door for money, she’s senior vice president at bank united and what boards get wrong? You may have heard rumors that you’re bored isn’t perfect. We’ll run through the most glaring offenses you need to look for. Jean takagi is our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group i’m tony take two, sixty nine and three fifty, but not four hundred nineteen. Responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com my pleasure to welcome first time guests to the show pullup park she’s. Senior vice president responsible for new business development in the non-profit hyre ed and healthcare sectors at bank united’s commercial banking she’s, a banking industry probono over twenty five years of experience focusing most of her career on the banking needs of tax exempt organizations before bank united, she was with wells fargo bank. You can email paula she’s offering her email. People are at bank united that dot com welcome polish pork high thank you. I’m very excited to be on the three hundred and forty nine forty nine that’s. Amazing, thank you very much. It’s almost set seven years called seven wow, seven years what’s one week between friends, right, seven years. Thank you very much. Um, yeah, i don’t know if i’ve had, uh i don’t know if we’ve had a bank around before. I think you might be our first banker. We’ve talked about financial things, but we’ve had, uh, more investment advisors you’ve had, you know, invite investors. We certainly had accountants on you. Might be the first banker zoho that’s. Exciting. Three forty nine. Right? Right. That’s like a low percentage. I feel i’m in the one percent you’re in the europe urine the point o o one. Yes. Okay, so we want to look good for creditors. White let’s. Just make something explicit. Just in case there are maybe or eggs that i haven’t thought about this. Why is it advantageous for them to borrow money? Well, you know, there’s. A lot of reasons for borrowing money. And first, i’d like to say that these air my opinions and up the opinions of my bank. Okay. Okay. Disclaimer. Thank you. So, you know, it helps you expand the reach of your own money. So not every organization can afford to do everything they need to do today. But, you know, do you have a long term risk repayment show source for a short term needs that’s a great reason to borrow. So you want an asset that will last you for the rest of your life. But you don’t have all the money today, okay? Like real estate. Like real estate. But you have the cash flow to support that. Maybe you want to think about borrowing, maybe it’s a great alternative to renting. Ah, and also non-profits use it to help them with their seasonality of their cash flows. Okay, that would be a credit line. Yes, and cried. Um, one of the purposes. Do you see clients coming to you for borrowing? Yeah. I mean, it’s, mostly capital and cash flow. Sometimes we bridge capitol campaigns. So again, back to this that, you know, you have pledges, but they’re going to come in over ten years. But you could buy that asset today if somebody will finance those pledges. Okay, so if there’s the right kind of documentation against those pledges, right? Like, if they’re biting their legally binding, right? I guess that would be part of your due diligence, and they allow lending. You have to let them, you know, they have to say in them that you could borrow against. Okay. All right. We’ll get to the details. All right. Cool. So so you have this future basically receivables? Yes. And you could borrow against them. And under the right terms? Yes. Okay. All right. All right. So it’s, mostly for assets and credit lines. Cash flow is mostly assets and cash flow. Okay, cool. Well, sam, just hand me the list of live listeners were bursting with live listeners who want to hear about looking good to creditors. Okay, we’ll get to the live. Listen, love that comes later. Okay. Okay. So, what should we think about before we approach a creditor lender and start an application or even to start inquiry? What do we need to have in line first? Yeah. I mean, i think you want to get your story together. You want to understand yourself and why you’re approaching them what you’re asking them for, you know, is there collateral? Can you offer collateral? You want to understand your own finances, and you have to be able to explain them to a bank in a way that they can understand wth? Um, okay, so we can’t just voice the whole bunch of documents on you and let you sort through it. Yeah, i know that’s an awful approach that does happen. And that tends to be the last thing you pick up. Don’t do this. Don’t do this. Don’t you throw a whole bunch of random things, really? Organize it. Think about your approach. Think about what you want to tell folks about yourself. Um, if you have a compelling story about yourself, tell it. And you have to be able to tell the story. Behind your numbers, because if you can’t tell it, nobody else can understand, okay, so you’re going to ask is this is this now is this? We’re like an initial phone call just like inquiry call i call up and say, you know, we’re thinking we have a cash flow issues, you know, we’re thinking of fifty thousand dollars credit line would be valuable for us, right? I could that would help us make payroll when you know things like that make our rent payments, et cetera, eyes this in an initial call, or do i need to have these things in line before i even call you and say, i’m thinking about doing this? Are you able to help? Yeah, i mean, i love asking questions, so don’t expect that the person on the other end of the line isn’t gonna have a ton of questions there are even in the usual cold, even in the initial call try to feel it out and see if it’s something you’re interested in or not, um and get an idea of what they’re looking for. Why, you know how they’re going to pay you back? That would be part of the initial conversation, because if it’s something you know you can’t help somebody with you don’t want to spend too much time on your trying to feel it our right. You’re beginning contrary, maybe the popular opinion. You’re not just throwing money at every organization that comes because you because it helps you make money, right know now you know. Okay. There’s due diligence. There’s a lot. I do know. How are you going to repay? All right. So how are we going to repay? I mean, if we need to borrow, how do we repay? Well, so, you know, there’s there’s. A couple of different ah, ways to do that. One is, obviously you have excess cash flow every year. So on a long term repayment, you know that extra hundred thousand dollars you have every year goes to pay the term long town. Okay. Okay. With, you know, with the capital campaign, you play it down, you pay it down, it’s the pledges come in and for lines it’s around your seasonality. So you know your your contract started. You perform the service now, it’s. Three months later. And you’re starting to get paid lines when i was in. College lines meant something different. I am not referring to the white lines now. No white lies a credit line. He’s a credit local. Just making sure. Yes, so would credit lines it’s based on your seasonality. So wants your money starts coming in from your government sources. You should be able to pay those back down, okay? Or maybe your donors, donors or your biggest and, you know, whatever that is. It’s it’s lines are meant to be drawn down and repaid and drawn down and repaid over the course of the year, and most of them have a thirty day cleanup. So you’re not supposed to use them for thirty consecutive days. Oh, meaning thirty days you’re supposed to be paid off within thirty days within it. Within thirty days of every year consecutively you have to pay a line of credit town. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, keep about my organization. Can’t keep a balance. No, the idea is to show us that we’re not your permanent working capital, that we’re just a temporary solution. Otherwise, that usually shows evidence of a larger problem. Yeah, because i say all right, right. If there’s always a balance, then the credit line isn’t the right vehicle for you, right? There’s always a balance because, yeah, you have a systemic issue usually. Ok, which is you’re you’re going to try to get at before issuing the line, right? I try to figure that out. First poker. Sometimes things aren’t as visible. Okay, we’re gonna talk about that. We’ll get more detail. Right? So we got we got to go away for our first break for a couple minutes, and then we come back. Of course, paul and i’m gonna keep talking about looking good to creditors. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy. Dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Uh, paula okay, um, so now we’ve progressed past. We’ve gotten past our initial inquiry call, okay? And we’re still viable. Yes, we haven’t. Slobbered we understand our financials. Oh, how would you want to see you? So when you say understand your financials on what you’re looking for, what kind of explanation? I mean, you know, numbers tell a story and what we want to hear the story behind the story. So we want to understand, you know, what you’re doing out there, you know, how you’re helping people, but also how your funding helping people, what your cash flow cycles like, you know, why you’re goingto borrow you know, you’re you’re building a new homeless shelter? Why do you need it for how many people are going to stay in there? How do you how are you going to pay it back? You know, um, you know, how do you budget? How do you work towards your budget? I the one of the my pet peeves is when somebody tells me they don’t track their budget, that scares me. Oh, that’s, terrible ally, i admit that. To a potential lender. Yeah, i’ve had that several time. We don’t track our budget. We don’t track to our budget and money. And yeah, we don’t do internal financial statements. We don’t track to our budget, right? That’s about that’s a bad sign? Yeah. That’s a that’s, a big red flag right there. It’s like, how do you know what you’re doing if you don’t keep track, right? Yeah. How do you know? How do we know we’re going to get paid back-up wi calendar if if you’re not if you’re operating from a budget. So at the end of the year, you figure out if you made it or not. Yeah, december thirty first. Yeah. Scary. Scary. It’s bad. We shouldn’t be operating that way, but that’s systemic. I mean, that there’s a there’s. A problem with board oversight there? Yes. What is not executing its fiduciary duty? Okay, i don’t know if jean takagi is listening, but he and i are gonna talk about some of the things boards get wrong. That’s one of them? Yeah. Okay, now. All right. So next step durney. What is the next? How would you define the next? So so what? I usually do is i gather financial data. So i asked for three years of audited financial state man’s your current year today how you’re tracking to your budget, you know, some sort of a numeric picture of how you’re going to pay me back. You know, what’s the funds flow if it’s aline what? Your cash flow cycle looks like that’s. Another red flag when somebody says, i don’t know what my cash flow cycle looks like. Um, you know, what’s your plan to pay me back to cash flow cycle well, that’s, your receivable cycle. So most organizations, especially government funded, have a very typical we know. Yes. Okay. All right. So we know, on the end of the quarter, we were very rich, and then we draw it down from the end of the quarter. Because our government pays us, the state sends me. It sends us to check every quarter, and that sustains us for the three months and right. And then we have other revenue sources, like events. And then we have individual donors account for right. Thirty percent of our revenue like that. I mean, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s it and you. Show me your cycle s i collectibe bunch of financial dad and then what i like to do is come visit, meet in person, see what you look like, see where you work here, what you sound like in person and, you know, asking a lot of questions and again have you tell me your story? How can we impress you now now you’re we’ve given the documents now coming on site, right? Right? How can we impress you so that you will give us the loan? Whatever it is that we’re that we’re looking for? Yeah, i mean, first of all, i always bring somebody with me and they’re usually the credit person, one of the credit people, so if you don’t impress them, does that mean they’re the ones who make the decision date? They either make the decision or influence the decision, okay? And you know, if they’re not impressed, that’s it but the end of the line and how to impress them. So you know again, you tell us your financial story. You tell us how you’re going to pay us back. You tell us about what you dio and how you do it. If you have a great program that you can show us that that’s going to really impress us. That always helps a lot. Ok, so show off our facility. Oh, yeah. Even if it’s not directly related to our loan. Yes, absolutely. Okay, you know, bring important people. Bring the cfo. Bring the executive director. Boardmember bring aboard matter-ness boardmember i love when they bring boardmember bring a boardmember show how committed everybody is, you know, talk about why they’re there and how much they love it. And, you know, it’s and the personal impression means a lot. You know, if you leave a meeting and you don’t trust the people you spoke with, they don’t sound articulate. They were confusing. You know, the chances of getting the loan get lower and lower. What about its summertime? Okay, if i show up at this meeting shorts and flip flops. Yeah, shorts and flip flops are a very bad idea. I’ve had it happen. Birkenstocks, you name it. Cut off jean shorts. You know the bank for god’s? Yeah. Think about your audience. You know, even if you have casual fridays, you should probably hold off on showing me your casual fridays until i know you better invite you for monday through thursday. Yeah. Invite me monday through thursday if you don’t want unless we’re doing a barbecue sacrifice your casual friday. Yeah, yeah, but don’t turn up in your casual friday close. I want to bring my credit people it doesn’t mean they’re in suits and dresses. Yeah, we just sweat it out and suits and you’re in your flip flops. They feel insulted. Okay, what else? Anything else? Tip of ways we can impress you. Tips inside of these the pro tips. I mean, you know, the pro tips. I guess one of the things we talked about was pricing hot off the show. But pricing bad banks, you know, come up with a score card on you. They basically take all your data and important into a financial model. And we come up with a risk rating for you and it’s. A number, man. Every bank has a different range, but the idea is the same. And and the number we come up with for you goes into usually some sort of a pricing model. And based on the number your price changes like there’s no, your interest rate. You interest rate, right. So the mohr um risk-alternatives and some of that’s quantitative. So you can’t really change that, it’s. Just a number driven there’s a portion that’s, qualitative and that’s. Where impression and how you sounded in how your story sounded. That all goes into the quantitative piece. Quality. Yes, qualitative piela that that moves your number around. What would you say that proportion is quantitative qualitative in deciding this risk rating? I mean, quantitative hyre okay, but sixty, forty years? Seventy, thirty, thirty percent. I can influence about a third that’s. A lot of my rate by putting on a good show having good present that making a good presentation, right? Right. I mean, there’s, nothing you khun dio, if your numbers are never going to work, there’s nothing you can do to change that. Okay, but if your numbers do work there’s a lot you could do to move, move it around and and put yourself in a different place. Okay, so, you know, i think that’s an important thing to consider is is what impression you’re leaving people with, you know, think about before you have before you call before you meet. What impression am i? Trying to give you what are some of the numbers that go into the these these? Yeah, that go into the risk lady. Yeah, s so what we do is we take your you typically it’s three years. We take your last three years of audits, and we lined them up against each other so we can look at trends. And we re like ratio analysis. We like, first of all, we do a percentage for everything. So revenues is, you know, made up of seventy percent this and ten percent bad expenses. We break every line item into a number and a percent. And then we blind him up so we can say things like, why did your program express spence? Increase relative to your revenue? Why was it twelve percent last year and this year, it’s? Thirty ah, wei take numbers and we pour them into a whole bunch of ratio analysis. Leverage is an important one. It’s basically debt to net assets. All right, we’re getting into jargon jail territory now? Yeah, you just defined leverage. That’s. Good it’s. A ratio of debt to net asset that to net assets. We look at liquidity numbers, which can be all different. It could be a gross numbers. Something like cash and i’m restricted investment. You can be a ratio like sabat current assets minus current liabilities. That could be current assets divided by current liabilities. So there’s a whole bunch of different numbers to look at. And then they think the most important one is debt service coverage ratio here in jargon. Jill. Yeah. Yeah, i know, but i can tell you thie d s c r the common. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s, your operating access plus interest appreciation operating access that we have to find that. Alright. Wait. All right. So let’s, just leave it with dug a hole here. Alright, jargon, but you get me out. Get me out of this hole. I mean, this dark hole, all right, basically shows us how you can pay us back that we have the capacity to pay you back. Yeah, it has to be better than one. If you want more detail in that email. Female polar at people back tonight at dot com. Okay, i got out of that slow. Okay. So, what’s all right, so you’re going toe. You’re doing deep evaluation. This is your your due diligence, right? God, quantitative and qualitative. What are some red flags? That that, yeah, what is a red flag? Yeah. I mean, you know, you’re looking for big, big red flags are ah, negative net assets. So negative equity negative equity means you you own less than you owe you. Owe more than you. Everything, including our copier are if we owned property, whatever all our assets yet or less than our liability. Yeah. That’s, that’s a big no, no, but, you know, this debt service number we’re talking about is below weinger okay, skip over that. Okay? You’re okay, you’re below one the one that’s bad that’s bad. You’re operating continually at a loss like year after year after year after year here on it’s getting worse, okay, you know, so the trends are getting worse. You know that? The number that you’re looking at two pay your backs getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Right? So your risk the risk of this money that you’re going to be lending is rising and rising, right? What? It may just be so high that when that we can’t even help you. Right? Right. All right, red flags. Any other red flags? Birkenstocks, you’ve got a deal. Killer it’s not a deal killer. I’ve done, i’ve done deals for cookie people and strange outfits, but but there, but they paid more. They might have paid for that race probably were hyre yes, stocks, birkenstocks will cost you, you know? I mean, they’re they’re lovely, but not not, not when you’re meeting the credit people, right? And if you go out to meet with people and for burke, they don’t understand what they’re talking about and they can’t tell you why they’re expenses. Air hyre this year, and they don’t manage to a budget and you walk in and the ceiling’s falling down, you’re like, i don’t know if i want to do that. What if we’re lending for renovations because our ceiling is falling down? Well, that would be we’re borrowing. That would be a different story. But if this is like your not that, you know, your i’m in for working capital and you know, the book just fell on my head. I’m a little worried, okay? Yeah, but you have deeper issues beyond. Yeah, there’s more keeping your program’s going in. Your staff paid yes within which these programs and staff are residing is not stable, right? Your buildings falling apart. Yeah, this is fun. And you? Oh, well, let’s, get back to some of the fiduciary duties that the board should be overseeing. What if there’s excessive compensation, right? I mean, you know, there’s not a hard and fast rule for executive compensation. But i do think that if you see stuff that’s really out of the norm, it does raise a big red flag. And one time, for example, i was looking at the nine. Ninety of social service that their financial statement there ought. It looked a little odd, so i went to the nine. Ninety to see if i could dig a little deeper because there’s. A lot of information in there. And i found out thea president, ceo and cfo. Were husband, wife and son. Oh, no. The social service was it’s operating at a loss, but the three of them together made over two million dollars a year. And the headquarter hyre? Yeah, hop on. The headquarters was being rented from the president. Man, i didn’t do that loan, right? Yeah. That’s. Egregious. Yeah. That’s. Great. Where’s, the board i don’t know. And it’s it’s, you know, it’s, a founder run entity. So, yeah, that has to sell that story. Yeah, and i won’t tell you who but it’s when you know very marriage. One wife and son. Yeah, and the three of them are making two million dollars over that’s a lot for a social service. Especially one that’s operating at a deficit. Right? Him? Yeah. So, you know, i look for things like that. Google, sir. Oh, you mentioned. Oh, okay. You mention financial statements, flandez these come with a lot of footnotes? Yes. When i was in law school, i had a professor who he was so keen on the footnote being so important that the answer to an exam turned on whether you read the footnote or not. Yes, absolutely right or wrong in big way. Whether you if you didn’t read the footnotes. Footnotes i read, i actually i read the footnotes first before i even look at the financial numbers because their stories in there because that’s, the football i love the footnotes. Yeah, there’s. A lot of stuff in there. It’s. Very interesting. Um, all the good stuff’s in the footnotes if we’ve got stuff buried in the footnotes that we would rather you didn’t see? Should we just let you read it on your own? Or should we come out clean and say, you’re going to see cem, some improprieties or some, you’re going to see some red flags? Let me talk about these shoes. In other words, should we reveal it, or shall we leave it to you two? Maybe you won’t find it. Yeah, it’s always better off to come up front with things make cerini find it, maybe we find it and and you know what it is and and and if it’s on google, if i can google it, you have to tell me, because if it’s out there, i google search everybody everything yeah, bad press um and if it’s out there on google, everybody knows so china hide it it’s better to just tell you story a pride. It always sounds worse when you dig it up on your own. Absolutely well, that’s. Like being ten years old, it’s. Much better to go to mom and say you did something bad. Then have her discover that you fed the broccoli to your dog. Right? Right, it’s. A deal killer. When you find something on google and it’s egregious for me, it was liver, but i have cut it into little bits at a smother it with ketchup. I always say, if you covered cutting little bits and spread it around the plate, it looks like a lot less right, right. At least hide it under the mashed potatoes. Yeah, hide it or just diffuse it when it’s dense on the plate. That’s when? It’s scary, right? Just just last night, this came up, somebody cooked me liver, even smothered with onions. I just i’m not a liver fan myself, but you got to come clean. He gotta come tell up front. You know, we don’t like liver here in this organization, right? That’s, right? And we want you to know and here’s why? And here’s but here’s what we do instead we have other sources of iron right supplement. Wei have other sources of good protein. That’s right? We’ve finished. They were in vegan. They were even begin here. Yeah, there are good. So alright. Come clean. That’s. What you’re saying? Come clean. Dafs piela all right. Um anything else? All right, so now we’re getting to this, the evaluation, the number’s sounds like we’re just reduced to a bunch of spreadsheets cells, right. While we tell you story too, we tell you story and writing. Oh, so you tell us your story. We tell you, we tell our credit people your story. Okay. Okay. So are you? Basically is your role basically too be an advocate for the would you put it that way and advocate for the non-profit is that too strong of a navigator? As long as that they’re worth advocating for. Okay. Okay. Until they’re not your advocate until they’re not worth advocating for. Yes, absolutely. So you’re the liaison. I’m really a front face of the credit organization. Credit institution, bank united on dh. You’re working between the organization of the credit right in the middle person? Absolutely. I kind of represent both to each other. Anything else we can do to get the best rate possible? We just have, like, a minute and a half left. What could you d’oh? Besides, have great numbers tell you. Good story. Where the right clothes? Show me your show, mia programs. Okay, alright. Stuff recovered. Yeah, i can’t think of anything else in that case tell me why you love. You’ve been in banking and lending twenty for over twenty five years. Why do you love this work? Yeah, i mean, i’m here for the not-for-profits so i’ve always been a not for profit. I started lending to not-for-profits in nineteen, ninety and i’ve been hooked ever since. I love to be involved in the projects i love to be involved in the missions i love to meet the people i’ve set on board. I’ve done volunteer work. I’ve worked. It not-for-profits too and i just i just want to help the the not-for-profits helped the universe. Our cold is to go to that to go to the ribbon cutting oh, i love going to the river cutting that’s like your shining moment of glory when all the all that work you did paid off for everybody. Yeah, so that’s fun. We loved the ribbon cutting and we try to bring some of our bosses to the ribbon cuttings too, and let them see how great we are, where their money did something good for a change. Outstanding cool part. Thank you. Thank you. Ballpark. Senior vice president at bank united park at thank united dot com. Thank you again. Thank you so much. Jean takagi and what boards get wrong is coming up first pursuant they have ah, well, they have something, but you have seen a lot of midyear fund-raising reports now we’ve we’ve crossed june thirtieth and benchmarks being discussed everywhere, you know, whether you’re living up to what the community is doing or not, but one of the most important trends and how do you make the most of the best sense out of them for your organization? What if you’re not hitting the benchmarks that other people have created on dh? How do you keep rising above if you’re if you’re ahead? That’s what the next webinar comes in for from pursuant it’s, the state of fund-raising midyear checkpoint with ceo trent riker he’s going to be on the show next week for the three fifty and senior vice president jennifer abila they’re gonna help you push through your third and fourth quarters if you can’t make it live on july twenty fifth, watch archive either live or archive go to pursuing dot com click resource is then webinars. We’ll be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers make millennial money that’s my own that’s my own alliteration that’s not there so don’t don’t blame alex queer. We’d be spelling for that, but listeners have been talking to alex. I know he’s the ceo there he’s also going to town next week and you could be next. You could be a b you could be you could be next. Look at this. What is brilliant mind since that what? You’re witnessing it at work right now. Um, b next, check out the video at we b e spelling dot com and then pick up the phone for pizza. Talk to alex and look, look what his number is. Nine to nine to two four bees. Okay, see, i’m not the only one now the time for tony’s. Take two. Sixty nine and three. Fifty. I’ve got a new video. Feels good in sixty nine. Get the filth out of your mind. Get it out! This is a family show. Although i don’t know anyone under twenty one. Why anyone under twenty would listen. But in fact, if you are under twenty one and you can prove it to me, i’ll make you listen for the week. Get me at tony martignetti sixty nine is a new position for me, it’s. Hard it’s a hard position. Watch the video and it will all become very clear. Next week is the three hundred fiftieth non-profit radio we’ve got all the regulars that iran, including jeanne kaguya, was coming on very shortly hyre meyerhoff she’s gonna be with me the ceo’s from pursuing and we’d be spelling live music with scott stein he’s going to play our theme song, of course, cheap red wine and another and we’ve got giveaways from pursuant and your coffee. How do you enter the wind post your most creative? Congrats on the three fiftieth use the hashtag non-profit radio three fifty post will pick the best ones those will be the winners here’s that hash tag non-profit radio three fifty you’ll find my sixty nine and three fifty videos at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two jean takagi. He, uh you know, he’s been listening to tony take two he’s been on for a couple minutes. You know who he is? He’s, the managing attorney of neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the wildly popular non-profit law block dot com and he is the american bar association’s. Twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer you’ll find him at gee tak gt a k jean takagi. So great to have you back. Welcome back. Thanks, tony. Great to be back. My pleasure. We’re talking about some, um, some mistakes that boards make. What, uh, what brings this to your attention? Well, it’s been in the news a lot on dh governance on every level in every sphere of ah, our country has been coming to a lot of attention and whether things were done properly up on the top or not, um, has become a big issue, and i think there’s a common saying the tone is set at the top and the tone of proper governance on non-profit boards really sets the whole tone for the organization and when you don’t have boardmember that air prepared to set that right tone, there are there are problems that follows, and those are the things that get into the news, okay? And we were just touching on just a couple of those with with paula park a few minutes ago, some talking about some of the fiduciary issues fiduciary duties that board members might be ignoring if they’re if they’re not. Properly prepared for, you know ah, credit application sabat okay, but aside from that let’s, see, what would you like, tio? What would you like to start with you? Pick you pick somewhere. We got to get a bunch to go through. But you pick something to start. I feel like i always dictate to you. You choose. Okay. Let’s do allowing. No, i’m sorry. Go ahead. What would you like to do? Well, i could actually let’s start with sort of conflict of interest transactions and that’s where boardmember sze decide that they want to sell services to the non-profits on whose board they sit and, you know, some some sort of say, all of that should not be allowed. And with private foundations there’s ah, much stricter rule that prohibits most of those transactions. But with public charities, it’s usually not sort of absolutely prohibited in some cases, a conflict of interest times action is actually to the organization’s benefit. Like kinda boardmember says, you know, i’ll give you rent at half of the market rate on you. And you can use my my offices to run the organization. That might be a very good deal for a public charity, but where board get in trouble is where one member of the board says, well, you know, i’ll sell you these advertising services for the organization, and my usual rate is five hundred dollars an hour, but i’ll charge you four hundred dollars an hour, and maybe that is what you know that person’s rate is when they’re selling him tto fortune five hundred companies. But for this little one hundred thousand dollars a year non-profit a four hundred dollar an hour rate for advertising is probably excessive. And if the rest of the board just blindly goes along that’s as well he’s giving us a twenty percent discount let’s go with it that gets boards in trouble. Yeah, okay. Would that fall under that eyes that a conflict, conflict of interests? Yes. I mean, there may be several laws where it could be a problem, but on sort of the federal level on the federal tax level, along with being a five a one c three organization and the public charity, you’re not allowed to engage in on access, benefit transaction where somebody like a boardmember gets an excessive payment. And if that happens, what? The irs could do would say, hey, you know, that was excessive, really, nobody should be paying a charity this side should not be paying more than let’s say, two hundred dollars an hour for those services, so you were overcharging two hundred dollars per hour and what we’re going to make you do, as the irs says, we’re going to say you have to return that excessive portion back to the charity, and then on top of that, we’re going to charge you a tax for violating that rule, and that will be twenty five percent of the excessive amount that you charged. And if you don’t fix that within the tax year, we’re going to charge you a two hundred percent penalty under the mountain, all right away, if any boardmember approved that transaction and they knew or he really should have known it to be excessive, we’re going to hit them with a penalty as well. Oh, my goodness. Okay. And i think you and i have talked about this not recently, but xs benefit transactions. I think we’ve covered this. This yeah, and then very i love that you point out the possibility of individual fiduciary penalties and my saying individual money, penalties for the board members, personal penalties. Yeah, really, really rare. But, you know, if if boards look like they colluded, teo benefit one of their fellow board members and weren’t really looking after the best interests of the organization, they can be imposed. Okay, okay, let’s go to aa, not preventing misappropriation, our misuse of the of the ah, the money’s that come in or the other other assets of the organization. Yeah, i mean, that’s a great segue way because one misuses overpaying a boardmember really is overpaying anybody. So maybe you’ve got a friend. And, you know, that friend is offering this great deal to the organization according to your friend, but maybe it isn’t such a great deal. Or maybe it’s for services that the organization really doesn’t even need. So he’s saying, you know, i’ve got this great storage facility. You guys should rent it, and you know, i’ll give you this this great deal on it, and so the organization goes ahead on, rents it but actually never uses it because they never needed that storage facility. Well, that would be kind of a waste of assets and potentially, a diversion of those charitable assets to benefit somebody’s friend. And again that back and get people in a lot of trouble about cyber security risks what’s the board’s responsibility there? Yeah, cybersecurity czar really hot button issue right now and then we’re seeing it everywhere from, uh, people getting their social security numbers stolen or credit card number stolen and identity theft associated with that. So when non-profits are collecting what they call personally identifiable information information that can be associating with a specific individual, they’ve got certain rules that apply, and these are specific to the states. So there’s certain rules that apply that say, you’ve got to really maintain and protect this information, and if it gets out, if your sites that contain this information are breached and those things that released a lot of states say you’ve gotta notify the individual who’s data has been breached and taken so that they can take steps to protect themselves. So really big deal now you you will have already breached the law if you didn’t create secure systems preventing certain breeches and hackers from getting at that data. And if you fail to notify possibly donor’s information, for example, or some buyers of your services or goods? If you don’t notify them of that reaches well, you could be violating another law. So a lot going on there in cyber security. Actually, another really interesting one was recently there was some ransom where that that was came out and hit not only for-profit organizations but some non-profits is well and ransom. Where is basically where somebody hijacks your site and some of some of your site, maybe for processing donations or for selling goods and services. And so you really rely on having them up every day while the hacker takes over your site says unless you pay me let’s, say, you know, ten thousand dollars by tomorrow, i’m going to keep your site hacked and it may take you, you know, even with your experts a week, two weeks to recover it, and maybe you’re gonna lose a lot more money if you do that now, what do you do? Yeah, we just had that nationwide within about the past, not not not just nationwide internationally with in the past, what, six weeks or so? See, i think the wannacry ransomware i don’t know if it’s called a virus or something else. But yeah, it was widely prevalent in a lot of organizations, and organizations have to figure out how to deal with that and it’s best to figure those things out before it actually happens, rather than after the fact we just had a guest with in the past. I’d say that in the past two months, mark last night was shine mark shine. I think, talking about cyber security on how to ensure against it, the different policies that are available. Teo, to protect your organization in the event of a breach s so you could listen to you could look back at that it’s just with i’m sure it was mark shine just in the past couple months, okay, let’s. See, um, let’s. I do want to get teo another, another popular blawg, not not as popular as non-profit law block dot com, but we’ll we’ll give ellis card or a shout in a couple minutes. How about yeah, investments what’s the what? I don’t think you and i have talked about this one, the board’s responsibility around the investment policy statements of the organization? Sure. So, you know, even some smaller charities, you know, they got reserves and order some of them anyway. If they’re lucky, enoughto have not have to live sort of day by day, have some reserves on dh. They may want invest those reserves rather than just keep it in in a checking account, for example. And if you do have assets for investment was a charity. There are state laws that are associated with prudently investing those foreign investor axe. Yeah, on dh those are really important to pay attention to so some charities and some have come to us for service. You know, when when the market is it is it’s hot on the market has been pretty good lately, you know, they’re also served deals out there, and some are like going no, you know, we would like to invest all of our our money in this hedge, but, uh, and they may not even know what a hedge fund is. And i don’t know that anybody actually knows what a hedge fund is, because that covers so many different broad groups of investments, but they tend to be wildly speculative, meaning you could make a ton of money on them in a short period of time, and you can lose a lot of money in a very short period of time and that type of speculative investment making unless it’s part of like a prudent portfolio where maybe, like ten percent of your assets are devoted to those that are, you know, much more speculative, but ninety percent are in much more conservative investments can be a real breach if you put all your money’s in one basket, which it’s never good ideas, we’ve learned from our our parents or our kindergarten teachers. Um, you know, you’ve got to make sure that the portfolio of different investments you have is prudent, and so you’ve diversified your risks and not put it all in some wildly speculative investment, and that could be not only a breach of your fiduciary duty but reach a prudent investor rules and there’s a rule we don’t wantto get into jargon jail, you’re always about the impression that the acronym uniforms prudent management. Of institutional funds act, and it says that you have to look at different concerns when you’re investing on dh. It really talks about conservative investing in a portfolio with an eye on what your mission is as well. Gene, just give that acronym and what it stands for again, please, i talked over you sure upmifa upm i f a, the uniform, prudent management of institutional funds act. If you google upmifa and your state, you’ll find what the law is, and i think that’s in forty nine states, i think maybe pennsylvania’s the outline, hold on. All right, all right, thank you. I’ll try teo, keep my tongue civil from here on, but all right, let’s, go out for our break. When we come back, i’ve got live. Listen, love a ton, and we’ll give a shout out to another law block that you might be interested in state with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Krauz hyre hopes could be with us next week for the three hundred fiftieth show as well. Jean takagi, listen, let’s, do the live listener love because we’re bursting here. Tampa, florida bronx, new york and if we got all five boroughs, we got multiple manhattan. We got bronx. We got staten island. Um, we have brooklyn where’s, queens, queens. Let us down. All right. We got four out of five and multiple said, multiple manhattan, woodbridge, new jersey. That’s not far. Laura, laura, laura, belinda, california live listen and love to all of you, but also to torrington, connecticut. I’ve been to torrington, that’s, a nice little town. I did some consulting there. Uh, social service agency. Torrington. And you have that that renovated theater right in downtown. I love that’s, very pretty. Minneapolis minnesota lives their love to you also new bern, north carolina and midlothian, virginia. Midlothian, midlothian live listen love. However you pronounce it let’s, go abroad. Not too many people abroad, nobody, nobody in asia, nobody at all in asia. This, i think, is the first show where there’s, nobody from asia. Wow. Okay, uh, they’ll be back. Uk? We can’t we can’t we see uk, united kingdom so we don’t know whether it’s whales or ireland or scotland or england we don’t know well, you’re in the uk so we always give always give you know you got to do the you got to recognize that there’s more than one country in the united kingdom, please and germany, good talk, live listen love all our livelong sinners on dh so of course, on the heels of that has got to be the podcast pleasantries because we’ve got over twelve thousand podcast listeners in the time shift. Thank you. Pleasantries to our podcast listeners, never forgetting them. And then, of course, the affiliate affections to our am and fm stations throughout the country. And by the way, i have four new stations to introduce next week on the three, fiftieth four brand new stations joining us throughout the country from new york, colorado to washington. I think porter stations but for the current stations listening today affections to our am and fm listeners. Thanks so much for being with us, everyone. Thank you, jean. Thank you for that indulgence. You know the thanks that you know the gratitude has got to go out, right? You know that? Absolutely. Thank you. Um okay. So let’s give a little shout out to ah, another. Another non-profit attorney ellis carter. She she she curates the charity lawyer blawg, cherry lawyer block. And you know, ellis carter. I did turn and she’s a wonderful person and a great attorney. Alice and i have had a chance to speak together and work together on the few occasions you’ve worked together too. Cool. All right. So on her block post going back, i think it’s two thousand nine there was one of her earlier poster, if not her very first post. She links to you while she mentions a bunch of your problem ideas. And i want to give a shout out to your block. Of course. Non-profit non-profit law block dot com where listeners can check out all your list of all ten because you did a post for this show, which actually you do that every week, which i always appreciate every time you’re on, you do opposed. So if you want to see the full list of jeans, go to non-profit loblaw dot com. But ellis carter has charity lawyer blawg and she’s got a couple on there. That i want to talk about, like micro managing staff are you are you comfortable talking about ellis carter’s board governance mistakes? Yeah, absolutely actually give credit to her. She came up with a list of ten, and then i just added a few more to to her list, and so she recaptured all fifteen together on her block, but she was the one who came up with micro managing staff and it’s a really important one because i think he probably seen it as well. Tony, where board members start to get involved and then go around the executive director and start to give directions to the staff. Yes, i have and creates all kinds of political trouble and reporting line trouble and yeah, yeah, but, you know, part of that can be the responsibility of the ceo to and blurring lines and, you know, having boardmember do things that maybe you’re not appropriate, like, you know, day to day tasks and things. Yeah, and so, you know, oftentimes when you, this is a kind of a growing pain for some non-profits as well, because when you’re on all volunteer non-profit organization, it is where the board members involved. With everything as well and and managing volunteers in that case. But once you start to grow up a little and have staff and haven’t executive director, the board members have to know to pull back and, you know, for one thing, boardmember should know that individually they have no inherent authority to do anything. They don’t have the authority to manage staff it’s only collectively as a board where they have authority officers like your executive director or your ceo perhaps might have the authority to give limited direction to the staff to ceo would obviously have have the ultimate authority there with respect to the staff, but just knowing where your boundaries are, it’s really important and from a liability standpoint, board members, if they start to mismanage, that could get hit with unemployment claim, which really makes up, i believe more than ninety percent of all directors and officers insurance claims our employment related and if they’re directed against boardmember themselves, and if you don’t have dino insurance boy, that that could be a huge problem for individual boardmember so they really have to be careful of that. Another one on ellis’s list is airing disagreements outside the board room and that reminds me of the very timely, like complaining about your attorney general to the new york times as an example, it just happened today airing disagreements outside the boardroom what’s the trouble there? Yeah, and obviously as a non-profit when you’re taking positions, you wantto have one position that you’re setting out to the public you don’t wantto have ah, divided ah statement that you’re giving to a public where some persons involved with the organization are on one side of an issue when other persons are other side of an issue and it looks to the public that the organization is poorly governed, poorly managed, and can’t even make up its mind on what its messages and therefore could jeopardize support. So aaron aaron, you know your disagreements outside of the boardroom, a really big problem for the organization in terms of its, you know, public relations, but also a huge, huge problem for the boards themselves because, you know, tony, if you and i were on the board together and we had a disagreement over a key issue on dh, we got a chance to discuss it, of course, when we go out you know, even if i may have disagreed with you and, you know, your side won, i’m going to be supportive of that. I might not say very much about it, but i’m definitely not going to say, well, i, you know, in in public that i disagreed with it because what happens if i start doing that is i’m a chill further board discussions, you know, if you don’t kick me out of the board for doing that, the board might find itself very, very leery of, you know, raising controversial points because you got this one person who’s going to be a blabber mouth and start teo, reframe everything and criticize you personally outside of the organization, a really big problem. The place for the robust discussion and disagreements is within the confines of the board meeting and maybe discussions that take place in committee or or even know our board members having back channel communications right privately on the phone or email, but publicly wait, where were we? Face-to-face we present one face yeah, and this along with your duty of loyalty to the organization as well, you’re supposed to act as a board member in the best interest of the organization. Not in your personal best interests. All right? Yeah. You don’t want to hurt the organization by by airing your grievances outside. Thank you very much. Looking forward to talking to you next week on the three. Fifty of jean? Yeah, i’m really looking forward to three. Fifty congratulations. Thank you so much, jane takagi you’ll find him at non-profit law block dot com and at g tak gt a k next week three fifty three five oh, how many times i have to say it, make sure you enter to win our giveaways post your most creative congrats with the hashtag non-profit medio three fifty can’t wait for that great fun! If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com we’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com our creative producers climb hyre half sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez and this fantastic cool music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and degree. Sametz buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts, tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.