Tag Archives: engagement

Nonprofit Radio for February 22, 2021: Listen Closely

My Guest:

Emily Taylor: Listen Closely

If you want to know what folks are thinking, interested in and motivated by, you need to listen to your donors, volunteers, advocates, employees. How do you get to the answers to listen to? Emily Taylor talks. We listen. She’s principal of teenyBIG.

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[00:01:45.84] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with hereditary angio oedema if you swelled me up with the idea that you missed this week’s show. Listen closely. If you want to know what folks are thinking interested in and motivated by, you need to listen to your donors, volunteers, advocates, employees. How do you get to the answers to listen to Emily Taylor talks. We listen. She’s principle of teeny Big Antonis. Take two a webinar or two were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo and by dot drives Prospect to donor Simplified. It’s my pleasure to welcome Emily Taylor to non profit radio. She is principal of teeny big coaching nonprofits to meaningful e engage their audiences through human centered design. Her prior experience is in nonprofit management and industrial design. The company is that teeny big dot com and you’ll find Emily on LinkedIn prominently. Emily Taylor. Welcome to the show.

[00:01:47.64] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Happy to be here.

[00:01:49.53] spk_1:
I’m glad. Let me ask you a question and I’ll bet nobody’s ever asked you. Did I pronounce your name correctly?

[00:01:54.24] spk_0:
Yes, yes, I’ve definitely lucked out with the easily pronounceable name.

[00:01:58.94] spk_1:
Excellent with martignetti. You know, uh, nobody ever asks, and they always mispronounced, but I’m always careful. But of course I

[00:02:05.24] spk_0:
Yeah, I’m married into a more common name. So it made things easy for me. Yeah,

[00:02:20.84] spk_1:
it’s easier to spell. Easier to say now. Industrial design is always interesting to me that I always think of like commercial design, like Cheerios boxes. But But that’s not That’s not strict. That’s not industrial design, really, is it?

[00:02:44.44] spk_0:
It actually is. It’s not the greatest name for a career path, but but it’s designing of products, you know. It’s the people who decide. You know what your cereal box might look like, but also your phone and your car on and, uh, you know, pens and pencils, just everything.

[00:02:46.46] spk_1:
Everything around us has design features to it. And of course, someone else was

[00:03:00.14] spk_0:
inside. You know, someone who decides how they make it, and that’s the engineer. But industrial designer really decides what it looks like what it communicates and how people connect with

[00:03:02.83] spk_1:
it. Okay, well, that I mean, there’s different principles around bookshelves than around iPhones. IPhones A little more complicated, little more complex. What? What did you industrially design?

[00:03:39.14] spk_0:
Most of my career was spent in packaging. So packaging really? And you know it Tze telling you what’s inside of something and you know why you want to pick it up and buy it on DSO Really? I like to think of packaging is an analogy for a lot of stuff. You know how we present ourselves to people have nonprofits present themselves to each other. It’s all a package that someone could gets a sense of before you dive in. Further,

[00:03:43.84] spk_1:
My favorite package packaging comes from Apple computers.

[00:03:48.05] spk_0:
I thought you were going to say that

[00:04:07.74] spk_1:
they’re so elegantly, uh, like the phone. You bet. It’s like on a pillow. I mean, it’s a piece of some material, which is not exactly cardboard, but it looks to me like it’s on a pillow and it’s wrapped in a gentle little plastic sheath. And the the power cable is is perfectly coiled, with a little little tie holding it. I mean, it’s incredible.

[00:04:38.44] spk_0:
Yeah, it is what we call the packaging experience on. And that’s really you know, if you imagine opening that up and having all the pieces jumbled out, you’d be really confused of what to do. And so, um, you know what I’ve been trained to do is think of things as a process. And how do you present information in a staged way So that someone gets it? Someone’s excited about it. Yeah, they can, you know, enjoy the joy. What’s inside?

[00:05:01.94] spk_1:
Okay, excellent. And you’re you’re you’re making a segue. Thio listening. We’ll get there, we’ll get there. Um, but yeah, you You wanna, you know that it’s your first impression. It’s the way the box looks before you even open it before you see just seeing it on a shelf, whatever it is. But then but then you I mean, you’re doing packaging, so there’s also security like you gotta hold the thing together. You don’t want it shaking in the box or whatever it was that you were packaging.

[00:05:16.34] spk_0:
Yeah, you don’t want people stealing it. You don’t want to toe fallout, get too hot while it’s shipping, there’s there’s a lot of different elements thio crunch into that beautiful package. Okay, cool.

[00:05:22.80] spk_1:
And then you move Thio Nonprofits?

[00:05:46.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So I was able to make a lateral shift where I moved, um, took my industrial design knowledge and ran a nonprofit called Design House where we worked in revitalizing local manufacturing, using design, and so we would run workshops on dhe. That was really my first forefront until, like, living in a non profit space versus just volunteering.

[00:05:58.74] spk_1:
Okay. And where’s the interesting listening and engaging with audiences on on that kind of level? Where did that come from? How did you get interested in listening?

[00:06:02.42] spk_0:
You know, I

[00:06:03.81] spk_1:
have developed interest in listening, right? I

[00:06:06.04] spk_0:

[00:06:07.14] spk_1:
what little But let’s problem where six minutes in. Let’s look what?

[00:07:16.94] spk_0:
Let’s stop listening. Um, well, I I grew up is a very kind of shy and awkward child, and and so I found, but I was really interested in people. And so I found that listening to what other people were saying and figuring out how to connect what I wanted to say and due to that really helped me. Um, you know, figure out how I could connect with people. I almost had you know, analyze it versus it, coming naturally, and so that that has allowed me to really listen in a way that I think not everybody does is I’m really looking for the words people are saying and asking them why they think that way s so that I can understand the context of where they’re coming from. And you know, whether it’s a cultural difference or or just, you know, a difference in in personality. It allows me to like bridge that gap and see where people are coming from so that I can then communicate what I want to to them.

[00:07:19.04] spk_1:
Interesting. All right. It’s very It’s very personal for you, too.

[00:07:41.64] spk_0:
Yeah, yeah, it’s It took me a while to really, like, make that connection back to That’s where it came from. Um, but it’s fun. I always love just, you know, connecting with people well, in the past, in cabs. Or, you know, at the train station you just start up a conversation and and here where people are coming from, because it’s always a totally different place,

[00:07:49.84] spk_1:
we’ll be in cabs again. We’ll be in. Captain, it’s coming. It’s coming. Where you coming from, where you taking. Used to take cabs and trains. Where are you?

[00:07:59.54] spk_0:
I’m in Chicago. So we’re about 2 ft of snow in. Yeah, Okay,

[00:08:13.74] spk_1:
so let’s Tze talk about listening. So we were kind of already kind of touched about it, but, you know, like, why it’s important. But, you know, we’re talking about user research. Why should we? Why should we spend time on this?

[00:08:49.64] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s it’s really important. Tons of for profit companies are doing this, you know, everything that comes out of Starbucks And we mentioned cabs with uber like they’re constantly listening to people and getting ideas in front of people and and hearing the reactions to them. And people are just getting used to having these very customized experiences. And it it connects to nonprofits to people have, once you have those expectations, you have those with everything you do. So

[00:08:50.53] spk_1:
s So how are companies doing this give give a couple of examples?

[00:09:30.24] spk_0:
Um, they’re doing focus groups. They’re they’re interviewing people. They’re putting out surveys. They’re also running, testing, you know, they’re getting prototypes out in front of people. Um, they’re having, you know, influencers work with them to design products. It’s all things that concerned a little overwhelming and expensive on DSO. That’s where I think, trying to bring those the most important elements of those two non profit. So it’s not not a huge cost barrier on, you know, and finding ways to listen in the way you can.

[00:09:32.67] spk_1:
Okay, But I interrupted you when you were describing why this is important.

[00:10:52.84] spk_0:
Oh, yeah, well, you know, it’s it’s important because people are are used to having. Like I said, having these, um, being more targeted and not just following whatever a leader says eso it’s is part of human to human centered design. This is part of the experience of being let’s top down, um, or bottom up, how can we, rather than having a leader that has a vision and everyone follows it to be thinking about, um, yeah, gathering the pulse of the people that were working with and using that to ladder up to the decision making. It’s not to say this is a you know, everyone needs toe to make a decision for all but toe have that input. And I think it’s really important this year because I cannot remember a year where it is so unpredictable what people are thinking, Um, you know, how comfortable are they going out? When are they going to get vaccinated? You know, what is their? How their perceptions of organizations changed over the last year based on who connected with them and who didn’t and you know, stories. They read that it just seems even mawr important to see where people stand because this is like a There’s no apples to apples Comparison.

[00:11:43.04] spk_1:
It’s time for a break turn to communications. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CBS Market Watch, The Chronicle of Philanthropy You wanna be in papers and outlets like that? Turn two has the relationships to get you on those outlets so that when these places air looking for experts on charitable giving, non profit trends or philanthropy, they call turn to turn two calls you because you’re their client. Turn hyphen two dot ceo Now back to listen closely. So we’re interested in how folks are, uh, interacting with our organization or interested in interacting with it. What what, like what’s motivating them? Those kinds of things.

[00:12:23.34] spk_0:
Yeah, I think motivating And then also you know what will fit into people’s lives like you no longer have the, you know, the consistent after school programs or the favorite, uh, you know, venues someone attended to like I remember. You know, it used to be you couldn’t plan things less than a few weeks out on a Friday Saturday night, and now you know, people are home. And so So how do you kind of get a sense of like where, you know, as a non profit where you could now fit into people’s habits as they bring some of those you know, we’re out of home experiences and to their lives.

[00:12:40.94] spk_1:
So when I was introducing the show, I ticked off listening to donors, volunteers, employees Are there other constituencies that we should be listening to?

[00:12:43.04] spk_0:
Let’s see, You said that donors,

[00:12:45.32] spk_1:
donors, volunteers, employees.

[00:13:04.64] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, I tend to look broadly at, and, um and I call audience, you know, basically people who are following you because a lot of those people could become a donor. They could become a volunteer, and they don’t really see themselves as such. Um, eso

[00:13:06.78] spk_1:
it could include, like your social Social Channel followers,

[00:13:10.58] spk_0:
could it? Yeah.

[00:13:11.85] spk_1:
Okay. Yeah. All right.

[00:13:27.84] spk_0:
Yeah. Um, you know, listening, trying to figure out how do you get them to the next stage? How do you turn them into, you know, one of the other categories? Um and, you know, but there’s really no end to who you could listen, Thio. I think that’s just where I focus is general audience

[00:13:50.24] spk_1:
folks who are benefiting from your programs to if you’re if you’re doing any kind of human service work or it could be customers if you’re a museum or a theater, it could be patrons that way. May not be donors, but maybe patrons to your museum Visitors.

[00:14:02.34] spk_0:
Yeah, and I’m going to make it sound too broad. But the real trick is to figure out who you want to listen to so that you can define it for yourself.

[00:14:11.44] spk_1:
Okay? Okay. But But all these folks, I mean, if they’re if they’re interacting with you in a meaningful way, don’t they? Don’t they deserve a voice in your You’re listening campaign?

[00:14:55.54] spk_0:
Definitely. I think where I’m going with is you know, the people who maybe are following you on social media will have different things to say. You know, if this is a museum, um, I have different things to say that people who are coming in to the museum or people who have donated to the museum for a long time. And so it’s helpful when you’re listening to kind of focus who were listening to so we don’t mix up Well, somebody said this and the other you know, these long term donors think this other thing and and you’re mixing up the messaging when, really, um, you know you need to be separating. People are gonna have a different perspective, depending on how well they know your organization.

[00:15:14.84] spk_1:
Yeah, for sure. And how they interact. So that’s what we’re here to talk about it. So we wanna we wanna avoid this. Yeah, You don’t want All the messages are like all the feedback coming a LH coalesced together and aggregated. I mean, maybe for some purposes, you aggregated. But you want to know what your distinct audiences are are saying back to you?

[00:15:18.25] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s about targeting and segmenting eso that. Yeah, when you listen, it doesn’t get confusing.

[00:15:31.74] spk_1:
Yeah, okay, so let’s let’s let’s talk about how to do this for for different audiences. How do you go about thes listening campaigns? I’m calling them listening campaigns. Is that

[00:15:35.37] spk_0:

[00:15:36.29] spk_1:
Can you put your imprimatur on that? Is that all right?

[00:15:38.87] spk_0:
No, I love it.

[00:15:44.34] spk_1:
Listening campaigns. Okay, so if you have different listening campaigns for different audiences, let’s talk about some method methods.

[00:16:43.44] spk_0:
Sure, Sure. And, you know, I always wish there was one that could really kind of all encompass get the right information. But there’s different tactics that kind of our good and bad in various ways. Um, but the one I love the most is to just straight up interview people just talk to them and this, you know, that could be done. You know, obviously, if you have very passionate followers that you can have conversations with them at any time and really talk to them about you know why they’re part of your organization. But you can also just go on toe Facebook or Twitter and just say, Hey, you know someone who comments, would you have 15 minutes to chat with me and get them on the phone? Just do that. You know, a couple people a week, and all of a sudden you’re starting to get a broader sense of what people who aren’t connected to your organization are just lightly connected. Think about you.

[00:17:19.74] spk_1:
Yeah. Excellent. Okay, So I like I like that you say, You know, just comment back to somebody on Facebook. I see you know your comment a lot. Would you like to spend 15 minutes talking to me talking to us about our organ? That you you seem to be very interested in? Um, you know, non profit radio is action steps. So, like, what can we dio eso? Um how about I mean, could you just approach? I guess you could just approach volunteers the same way or, you know, you’re you’re devoting 10 hours a week to our work or whatever it is 10 hours a month. Could you could you sit with us for a phone call and talk about the organ?

[00:18:18.14] spk_0:
Any any interaction is ah, opportunity. I mean, you could even if you have a cocktail hour, just go around and ask the same question Teoh a few different people and and take note of what they say it Z. It’s more of a qualitative kind of feedback. But you get some really great answers. Although I would take a step back and just say it’s good to know what you want to learn. I actually had a a little hosted a conversation earlier this morning about listening to your audience, and it was interesting. I asked the group if you could just reach into your audiences brain and find out anything, you know, what would you want to know? And the question really stumped people. Mhm. Uh huh. And so, you know, it made me realize that, like, as you listen, you also need to know what what you’re looking for.

[00:18:19.37] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s like your goal setting for your listening campaign. Every campaign has to have a goal. This is not a volunteer campaign or fundraising campaign. This is listening campaign. So what would you like to learn?

[00:18:39.74] spk_0:
Yeah, you know, it’s so obvious. But sometimes when we just talked to people were used to having a conversation, not, uh, really digging for information.

[00:18:56.24] spk_1:
So when you’re at that cocktail party, if you’re if you wanna engage folks in your listening campaign surreptitiously, you’re not going to say, you know, let’s have a can of pay. Would you join my listening campaign? You’re just gonna say these kind of pays a good I like the I like the little like the little shrimp tails. So what s all right? So what you want to know is gonna inform what question you’re gonna ask or what questions you’re gonna ask.

[00:19:19.64] spk_0:
Yeah, but it might be, you know, how did you find out about this event? This organization? What? What drew you to To come here, kid. Um, you know, those those kind of questions.

[00:19:27.64] spk_1:
What moves you about our work? What do you know about our work, or what’s your favorite thing that you know about our work or Okay,

[00:19:46.64] spk_0:
Yeah. And sometimes it’s a really great time to ask about. You know what you think of certain words. I’ve you know, it’s kind of taking some notes on some clients that I’m working with that are having issues. And I work with this, uh, organization that’s doing contemporary classical music. And they they

[00:19:46.91] spk_1:
have a really classical what? That’s

[00:20:04.04] spk_0:
modern, modern modern composers doing classical music and they always run into Probably What you’re thinking in your head is like people associate classical music with the big, you know, white wigs and Beethoven

[00:20:06.84] spk_1:
Strauss and right. Yeah.

[00:20:23.94] spk_0:
And so I’m really pushing them to start asking people what does classical mean to them so that they can start to really here where people are coming from and what they need to say. Toe to bridge that gap. Okay.

[00:20:25.44] spk_1:
Okay. How about some other methods? So we got the cocktail party casual. We got the, like, the ocean social listening. What else? What’s more form?

[00:21:57.84] spk_0:
Yeah, you know more. Traditionally, there’s there’s surveys which can be big and laborious, so they could be quick. Just three, You know, two or three questions surveys that you pop into your email. Um, and the thing with surveys is, uh I think really making sure they, um they don’t just They asked the right questions. So, you know, again going back to your goals. You really need to look at that. Um, but a lot of times of surveys, um, they’re not great at predicting people’s behaviors. And so, you know, a survey I’ve run into a lot of nonprofits who will say, you know, we did a survey, and everyone thought, you know, Tuesday at seven was a great time for an event, but no one showed up. Yeah, and and you know, I think the thing there is like, it’s really hard for people to predict. You know how they’re gonna feel on a Tuesday night. You know that it tze different people have, like, a mode for answering surveys. And so really, it’s great to get ideas out in front of people for those surveys. You know, maybe, What do you think? Between these three things, Um, you know, these three messaging campaigns, these three event ideas or even just, um, you know what? Sorry, I just lost my train of thought. My cat came into the room. Um,

[00:21:58.63] spk_1:
okay, we’re very We’re very family friendly. Wonderful. It could be a child in animal. Not only family friendly, family embracing, family embracing. You’re welcome to bring your cat onto this. Excellent.

[00:22:35.24] spk_0:
She might she might just join anyways. Okay, um but having what was going to say is having open ended questions so that you can here some of the things that you might not expect, so a lot of times with surveys will we might make assumptions about things. And when you leave some open ended questions that allows people thio, you know, one participate and feel like they’re engaged, but also opens you up to things you might not have thought to ask about.

[00:22:43.94] spk_1:
Do you have a favorite survey tool? Um, Surveymonkey. Everybody knows story. Monkey. Yeah. You have a favorite monkeys.

[00:22:47.95] spk_0:
Great. I’ve just started thio use type form.

[00:22:51.44] spk_1:
I’m, like form.

[00:23:30.64] spk_0:
Yeah, and and that’s been nice. It’s a little You can actually do some assessments. Uh, but it’s a really It’s more like visually engaging software. Um, so I’ve enjoyed that, and I think things where you can just when you talk about tips like putting things in emails So being able to put the first question of a survey into an email blast so people can just click on that kind of get a sense with the surveys about and that just takes, um, shoots him right into the survey versus click on this link to take the survey and then just sort of like one extra step. Okay,

[00:23:34.04] spk_1:
Do you have ah preferred length? You said they could be super long or it could be very short. I mean, I’ve I’ve had folks on saying, you know, no more than five questions or people start to fade out after so many questions. What’s your advice?

[00:24:16.44] spk_0:
Well, I I the big lengthy ones. Those are like like marketing surveys that some organizations do every couple of years. That’s that’s really not by focus. I like, Yeah, I mean, it’s especially right now. People are changing their mindsets month, a month, the quarter to quarter. And so the more the shorter you could make things and the more focused the better. So I’d rather see people you know asked 3 to 5 questions a month or every other month than 25 question survey each year,

[00:25:30.14] spk_1:
it’s time for Tony’s Take two. I’ve Got a webinar for you. Five Planned giving websites that set the standard. It’s on February 25th, 3 p.m. Eastern time. It’s a romp. It’s a quick shot. I’m gonna take a romp through five plan giving websites in 45 minutes. Show you what I love about them. Show you what not to do that I don’t think is so good on them. And take your questions. Of course. Always time Q. And a quick shot 45 minutes, February 25th at 3 p.m. Eastern time, and you register for this esteemed webinar at PG Websites PG websites that is Tony’s take two. Let us return to listen closely with Emily Taylor. Do you have? Ah, this is different. Unrelated. But where my mind is thinking. So I’m gonna ask you Do you have opinion? An opinion on political polling? Like the accuracy of polling. Do you consider that within your I know you don’t do that work.

[00:25:33.37] spk_0:
Obviously you

[00:25:34.49] spk_1:
consider that within your belly. Wick toe comment on.

[00:26:36.04] spk_0:
I’ve been really fascinated by this. And this is where I go back to, like, whatever you do a survey you always have toe question what people really are, You know, the action versus what they’re predicting. Ah, nde. We’ve seen that with the last two elections of poll numbers just being way off. And so that’s that’s the sense that I get is, um that is a result of, you know, asking people toe fill in boxes versus trying to get to what they how they really feel about things. Um, you know, there’s there’s definitely a I think with surveys we can put on a we don’t want to be mean to this non profit hat or, you know, with political things like we don’t I don’t You know, I don’t quite understand. Can’t quite articulate how I feel. But I I’m just gonna answer this because this feels like the safe thing to Dio. And so those kind of answers don’t help us. Yeah, right.

[00:26:45.54] spk_1:
They’re misleading. Uh, maybe. Maybe not intentionally Or maybe in time, But anyway, they’re not helpful. Leaving your right. Leave it leave. It is not helpful. E want to attribute bad motivations to folks. I don’t want to do that.

[00:26:50.04] spk_0:
No. Like I said, sometimes it’s It’s because you know you don’t wanna be means it’s a It’s a good thing, but it doesn’t help.

[00:26:57.34] spk_1:
How about focus groups? Are there are people doing those online? I mean, it’s certainly eminently doable, are they? Are they valuable? Our folks are people participating.

[00:27:17.04] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve definitely There’s been focus groups happening over the last year. I find them. You know, there’s a lot to be careful with with focus groups because there are group dynamics that you need to be aware of. You need to be

[00:27:28.44] spk_1:
a pro at facilitating those, right? Yes. Yeah. You don’t wanna go off as an amateur trying it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Because you’re asking for people’s honest opinions and

[00:27:40.64] spk_0:
yeah, and it’s very hard for people. You don’t want to talk about some of those being nice elements. That is amplified when you have a few strangers in a room.

[00:27:48.14] spk_1:
Yeah, right. Yeah. I don’t want to say anything controversial. I don’t want anybody feeling. Yeah, but then you’re not getting truthful answers, right? So you need all right, You need a pro if you’re gonna do the actual focus groups, right? Okay. Do you facilitate those? Do you facilitate focus groups?

[00:28:04.84] spk_0:
Um, I do not. Usually there’s a few people I work with that that have done them, or, um, but, like I said, you know, prefer being able Thio digging a little deeper with people

[00:28:16.34] spk_1:
you don’t have that lions lions, then of focus groups. And yeah,

[00:28:40.34] spk_0:
well, I’ve definitely done them in. You know, in the past industrial design world, I’ve watched a lot of focus groups, so e think I I understand how complicated they are. And it’s when you get into, um, nonprofits that air so emotionally entangled in our heads that I don’t find them as is practical.

[00:28:43.24] spk_1:
Okay. All right. So don’t try this at home. Or maybe you don’t need it.

[00:28:47.52] spk_0:
Just just have a good Yeah.

[00:28:49.25] spk_1:
Alright. Another You got another method?

[00:29:20.34] spk_0:
Um, well, another, you know, we can also get into more data driven methods, which is like, a b testing or doing, you know, sending out several different options. And and so this is not listening in the sense that you people are voicing things back, but you’re seeing what decisions they make your observing their behavior. And so I find observing as another type of listening, like,

[00:29:21.18] spk_1:
what are some examples of things you might A B test?

[00:30:13.34] spk_0:
Um, you could a b test a new message you wanted to use to promote a program or or to encourage people to donate. Um, you know, the trick is to always have an action that you want people to take eso You could talk about an event in two different ways. Send that out and see you know what? What? Got people to, you know, come to the event or click for more information? Um, whatever it might be. But that’s those air. Really. They’re harder because again, you don’t get that. Why? But you do. You do get the behavior, which, as I mentioned before in the survey’s can sometimes, um, not come through because, yeah, it’s not someone’s riel reaction. Where reaction.

[00:30:19.54] spk_1:
You’re getting reaction you’re getting You’re getting data. Um, Anything else? Quantitative. You like to quantitative?

[00:30:22.97] spk_0:
Yeah. I, uh I mentioned observing Don’t

[00:30:26.54] spk_1:
hold out on non profit radio listeners. Now, keep anything into my

[00:30:30.51] spk_0:
bag of listening trip.

[00:30:31.84] spk_1:
Nothing. Nothing at the bottom of the bag.

[00:30:57.34] spk_0:
Well, this one is so observing, I think can also happen. Um, it’s a little harder right now, since a lot of people are socially distanced, but observing people’s behaviors, Um, and this could be, you know, watching people and an event. How many people like, if you have different tables where they’re going, you know, keeping track of of some of those things. Are they paying attention to different speakers

[00:31:01.91] spk_1:
when you’re CEO gets up? Does everyone go to the bar or the bathroom? That’s a bad sign.

[00:31:08.04] spk_0:
Yeah, You just don’t know what it means. You know, I always think

[00:31:13.59] spk_1:
they don’t wanna listen. Uh, going to the bar to drink. When? When? The CEO of the bathroom. They probably don’t wanna hear the CEO. So that’s bad.

[00:31:41.14] spk_0:
Well, I always think of the example of, you know, and a friend to other friend gave a speech at an event and came up to her afterwards and was like, What? Why did you hate my speech? What was wrong? And she really She had some sour candy in her mouth the whole time. And so she was kind of like like making these

[00:31:42.47] spk_1:
grimacing, disapproving

[00:31:46.94] spk_0:
faces unintentionally. And so this is where you don’t want to make those assumptions eso we can observe, and that will help

[00:31:53.82] spk_1:
us. I mean, there might be an alternative. Might be an alternative explanation for everybody going to the bathroom when you maybe you had too much

[00:31:59.82] spk_0:
punch. Maybe what? Maybe you serve too much punch.

[00:32:13.74] spk_1:
Punch, punch. All right, All right. So maybe it’s the timing. Okay. Um Alright, so that’s interesting. Yes. Observing dynamics in a room where people where people huddling. What? What? What might you learn from things like from that? Those kinds of observations when we get back to in life are really ever personal. Presidents? What might you What might you pick up or what have you seen? That’s interesting. Um

[00:32:58.54] spk_0:
uh, let’s see. I mean, you can learn like I think of an example like at a museum. You know, where are people stopping and taking the most pictures might learn. Like what is, um, what? Elements of a space are engaging to people and that could then lead you to ask more questions about why that seem more interesting to people. So So sometimes observation helps us come up with more questions than answers, but very, very helpful ones.

[00:33:01.64] spk_1:
Yeah, because those questions then could become goals for your the next phase of your listening campaign.

[00:33:25.14] spk_0:
Yeah, well, and I think, you know, to the museum example, someone might not realize they were, you know, idling in a in a certain room and taking more pictures if you would ask them in a survey or even in an interview. But if you observe them doing that, then they have to kind of think a little bit more about why they why that appealed to them?

[00:33:42.14] spk_1:
Well, that’s it. Like they’re hanging out in the French nudes room. Of course, they’re all going to say, Well, I didn’t realize I didn’t I didn’t know I was there, that really 25 minutes. I don’t make any assumptions about that Yeah, I thought I breezed right through that. The newsroom. Alright. Yeah, e

[00:35:09.14] spk_0:
Just saying Oh, yeah, Are sometimes our minds remember different behaviors than than what we actually did. Yeah, sure. Let’s see if I could think of other ones. Um, I think that that kind of covers I was I was gonna add toe observation is, um and this is less like little observation, but seeing what? What else? People do. Um, and so this could be understanding. Knew where? Where do your where’s your audience shop? What what other things are they doing with their time? Um and so this It’s not really a different method. You might still need to do a survey or interview around this, but but to understand, um, you know those air behaviors that we can then use to work with our programs on dso understanding that people, you know, maybe are more organic or vegan shoppers might then lead us to think more about the food we serve at an event, um, or or how you’re appealing your, um, your mission to people. Especially like a newer There were people. There might be some connection you can make with other habits and behaviors that they have

[00:35:11.05] spk_1:
or knowing maybe what other causes folks give to

[00:35:32.44] spk_0:
exactly. Yeah, um, you know, And knowing that someone shops set eco friendly stores might than, you know, make them more connected to a sustainable part of your organization. And, you know, knowing that you you have sustainable practices could be more appealing to them.

[00:36:28.63] spk_1:
Right? Right. You want to share that? Okay, time for our last break. Quote. There’s nothing as simple as dot drives. Our executive team meets once per week to sit down and go through our dot drives pipelines. It’s fun to watch them have a healthy dialogue and to see them get excited about their numbers rising toward their goals. DOT drives has allowed us to take those key relationships and bring them to a deeper level. End quote. That’s Wendy Adams, director of donor engagement at Patrick Henry. Family Service is prospect to donor simplified. Get the free demo for listeners. Also a free month. It’s all on the listener landing page at we’ve got but loads more time for Listen closely, and I hope that’s what you’re doing. How did you get the company named teeny big?

[00:37:00.93] spk_0:
I gave myself a small window. Thio come up with a name and, um and what I really liked about it is I love zooming in and out on things. And so the big picture is very fascinating to me, but then to zoom in on these little details that we might observe on doing back out to see what we can broadly learn from those, Um, that was that really drew me to to the name.

[00:37:10.63] spk_1:
Okay, Now what? I’m this interesting s So why did you give yourself a time frame for choosing a name? Did you feel like you could go on forever if you didn’t? Yeah.

[00:37:27.83] spk_0:
Yeah. Coming from the design world, I knew I could spend endless amounts of time. And so, yeah, that was an entrepreneur practice I learned of. Give yourself 45 minutes for an idea and just come up with as much as you can. Then, uh, is that

[00:37:31.43] spk_1:
one? You got a company name in 45 minutes? Mhm.

[00:37:33.13] spk_0:
That’s all right. And then 14 minutes for the logo. Yeah. Kept it moving.

[00:37:41.63] spk_1:
Yeah, for a clever name. Okay. Interesting. Very. That was a very productive 45 minutes. Give.

[00:37:43.74] spk_0:
Yeah, it’s interesting. When you give yourself constraints, sometimes you can get a little more creative.

[00:38:13.32] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s for the those of us who work in the last minute. You feel that pressure now? I’m not saying, you know, last but it. But it’s time pressure. You know, your do other things until you know that you’re at the point where you absolutely have to focus on something else. And then you do. I mean, it’s amazing. You know how I can squander three hours and it’s amazing what I could do in 25 minutes. Uh

[00:38:20.72] spk_0:
huh. Yeah, that’s a part of the brain I’ve not quite understood, but it’s It definitely forces some focus. That helps. Yeah,

[00:38:34.72] spk_1:
it’s valuable. It helps. May not that I’m squandering 7/8 of my day, and then I’m only working half hour a day. But but the time pressure of ah, of an imminent deadline helps me.

[00:38:41.72] spk_0:
Yeah, sometimes you have to force it in yourself. I’d like to think about really didn’t like the names. I could just give myself another 45 minutes. But all right,

[00:38:42.21] spk_1:
you’re cheating. Then you’re gonna cheat yourself. I know, I know. Not setting the boundaries. You’re not supposed to abandon your boundaries. Emily, you’re supposed to stay. It was there was

[00:38:51.38] spk_0:
this part of my brain was telling myself that. And then the other part was like, Wait,

[00:38:57.92] spk_1:
maybe if I need more time. All right. Um, what else? Where else do radio? Where else do we go from here? Where do you wanna talk about?

[00:41:06.01] spk_0:
Let’s see, One of the things I love to talk about that I think is not happening very much in the nonprofit world is prototyping and testing on dso. I mentioned this a little bit in the ways toe. Listen, um and this kind of gets into again, like a lot of listening, and it’s a, you know, professional listening, not just conversation is trying Thio get answers to these questions that people aren’t always able to articulate. And so when we can get ideas in front of people that allows them to react. So, you know, you could you might be able to say, Oh, what would get you to come to this next event? You want pizza or free wine or, you know, you might be ableto like Sorry. I phrase it the wrong way. You might ask somebody that and they might say The obvious answer is like pizza and wine or or a discount. Um, I feel like that’s sort of the ultimate, um, answer to a lot of non profit questions when when they do surveys is people like Oh, yeah, I would come if I just had a discount or if there’s a free ticket and and yeah, I like the amount of non profits I hear that. Say, they gave them the discount and they didn’t come, Um, And so if instead we get ideas in front of people and say, You know, what if we had a Q and A at the end, or what if we, um, you know, told you some really interesting stories about this artist or composer? Um, you know, and maybe share some of those tidbits so they would understand what that actually meant. Um, you can start to paint a picture that they could get excited about, and so maybe it isn’t about the discount or the free thing, but it’s about the the interesting value that they would get out of it. Um, and they’re able to react to that rather than having to come up with the idea of themselves

[00:41:08.19] spk_1:
can give another example. It feels like we’re talking in the you’re talking in the abstract. Can we?

[00:41:13.05] spk_0:

[00:41:14.51] spk_1:
Can come An example for us. Toe ground. This?

[00:41:36.41] spk_0:
Yeah, yeah, let me think of a good one. So let’s see, with, uh, there was an organization that they were really having our arts organization, that they discovered that people were viewing them mawr as a entertainment venue. So people were coming and supporting them through ticket sales, but they weren’t moving towards donations And really seeing this organization

[00:41:45.71] spk_1:
as Yeah,

[00:43:11.70] spk_0:
yeah, and so they’re kind of struggling in this barrier. And so what we did is we actually prototypes, um, three statements that they could say ahead of their programming to remind people about the broader work that they were doing what happens, you know, when they left the building and on DWI could hit different, you know, emotional touch points. You know, one was really about the big picture of how this organization fit into the world. One gave us a practical numbers around the impact they were making. I think one told a good story about the history of the organization and So those were prototypes. Those were three different ways they could talk to people about why their organization is more than just entertainment on DSO. Then they could take those those concepts and whether it was in a survey and have people kind of choose which motivated the most. Or through an interview where they can literally just get, you know, ask people what they thought about those different. You know, those different statements and use that to then build a really powerful statement that when they did actually go, so have the next event. They had the confidence that that would make an impact. Okay,

[00:43:33.50] spk_1:
Okay. Helpful. Thank you. All right. Um, any anything we should be cautious of when we’re having doing this work? Maybe whether it’s casual at the over the counter pay table at an event or whether it’s more formal. Any lessons learned that we should avoid?

[00:44:00.29] spk_0:
Yeah, I’ve been going back thio some of things I’ve said before about people don’t always know what will motivate them. Um, and you know, they don’t always know what they’re the kind of predict their behaviors in a certain situation. And so I’ve definitely learned to live with a certain sense of, uh, uncertainty,

[00:44:01.45] spk_1:
A certain sense of uncertainty, a

[00:45:23.19] spk_0:
certain sense of yeah, helpful. Um, you know, listening is a process, and so it’s not as concrete as, um, you know, maybe some some more quantitative data points, but it is. It’s something you should always be doing. But always questioning on dhe. This kind of goes back to making, making assumptions about people you want to make sure that we’re not taking people literally, um, that that were, you know, uh, that we’re trying to figure out the motivations behind them. The, um you know, not just the functional touchpoints. So maybe, are they attending an event? Um, would they want to attend event, But also the why behind it? You know what really draws them to your organization? What caught their eye about that event? Um, and using that to then, you know, kind of taking those bits and pieces and building a story about them slowly so that we’re not. So I feel like I’m kind of getting in a little bit of a word. Jumble. Right. Okay.

[00:45:32.19] spk_1:
Well, you first of all, for functional touchpoints almost put you in jargon jail. I

[00:45:32.30] spk_0:
know. I

[00:45:32.73] spk_1:
know. Okay? Yeah.

[00:45:52.49] spk_0:
Yeah. Tony and I were just talking about jargon on LinkedIn. So, Z, uh, my watch out is to toe always sort of live in this hypothesis with listening on dso I think of. I think of it as, like a scientist.

[00:45:56.65] spk_1:
Okay, what’s the What’s the hypothesis? Oh, that you have a hypothesis going in.

[00:46:50.38] spk_0:
Well, that’s so a scientist is, um, you know, studying rocks, and they might find certain information about those rocks, but they always always have to keep questioning. Is that true? Is that true? Is that you know, is that really, um, the truth? And so I think with listening, it’s the same thing. People are complicated and so we can keep listening and gathering mawr information. Um, but we also have to know that it’s not solid ground that we’re standing on it. Z, it’s something that my ebb and flow throughout. Okay, you know, a ZX time moves on, and so it’s You have to live with some uncertainty. I e I guess what I’m saying is that if you you know, you don’t just do a survey and wipe your hands and think you have all the answers.

[00:47:06.08] spk_1:
Understand? Okay, right. You may need to have You may very well need to probe further. Asked what? Little asking One more question. Ah, dive deeper Thio to get to the rial. Yeah, Motivations person people really motivations what really moves them?

[00:47:25.78] spk_0:
Yeah. And you know, like this year as a ZX vaccinations happened, Those the ideas that people said in March might not be the same as in September. Eso you just have to live with some of that that uncertainty,

[00:47:27.28] spk_1:
okay, but it’s still worth proving its worth. Oh, yeah. You’re listening campaigns, Of course.

[00:47:35.98] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, it’s better than saying the wrong the wrong thing. All

[00:47:36.78] spk_1:
right, we’re gonna leave it there. Okay?

[00:47:38.78] spk_0:
Okay. All right.

[00:47:51.38] spk_1:
Emily Taylor. Principle of teeny big at teeny big dot com, which was derived in 45 minutes or or less. Um, thank you very much, Emily. Thanks for sharing.

[00:47:53.98] spk_0:
Thank you, tony. Thanks for having me.

[00:48:00.37] spk_1:
I did pronounce your name. Right? Right. Emily, You okay? Okay. No more shy and awkward either. Well, you’re over that. Your china smart assed, uh, non profit radio. You are. Thank you very much.

[00:48:07.77] spk_0:
Thank you.

[00:48:57.67] spk_1:
Next week, strategic execution you know, strategic planning Now what if you missed any part of this week’s show? I beseech you, Find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives prospect to donor Simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation, Scotty, with me next week for non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with calla boma if i saw that you missed today’s show linked in volunteermatch it place. Allison dorsey is the social impact manager at linked in she wants you to understand the value of their volunteermatch it place and how to use it and stop talking at me. Vicky jones and christine hughes will help you avoid common problems and improve your internal communications between people and departments. Christine is director of individual giving and external relations at westchester medical center foundation, and vicky is planned giving officer at weill cornell medical college that was recorded at fund-raising day twenty fourteen and both segments today are from the november seventh twenty fourteen show. And for that reason, you’re going to hear some live listener love that is spurious and erroneous because i didn’t quite give sam the show information about which one we’re going to use in time and it just it gets all complicated. You you really you don’t want to know how the sausage gets made just suffice to say today’s sausage has a little bit of trichinosis, so just a couple of cells, so make sure you wash your hands thoroughly after. After touching the rock show on tony’s, take two my charity registration webinar we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com here is alison dorsey from that november seven twenty fourteen show i’m very pleased to welcome from california. Allison dorsey she’s, the social impact manager at lincoln, helping linked in members connect with non-profit opportunities. She also works with non-profits to build their brands and identify talent, and she leads lengthens veterans initiative on twitter follow-up at linkedin for good that’s the number four and, of course, the arabic number four don’t use the roman ivy linked in arabic number four good ilsen dorsey, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me, tony. I’m glad you’re in from california san matteo, is that right? Yeah, we’re in mount view it’s great to be in new york, a mountain view we’ll get sent matteo from i’m from near sama. Tasks okay. Are you one of the got to know? Are you one of the aipo billionaire? If only now i’m not going after that? We don’t have a billionaire on the show now. Not today. Unfortunately, both of us. Yeah. Okay. Um, what’s it like working there. I mean, that’s a pretty high energy place. Yeah. World famous world known. I don’t know how many members there are, but ten lines. Yeah, over three hundred twenty million. Two hundred twenty million. Okay, hundreds of millions what’s it like working in a place like that. It’s exciting, i think it’s a lot like you see about silicon valley fun culture. You know, we have the ping pong tables and all the people running around having a good time and it’s also a lot of people working really hard and we get, you know, there’s always the profiles of the super genius engineers who are creating the tools. And we definitely have that. Yeah, okay, they barefoot in the winter time. California that’s. It doesn’t matter that sometimes they are, but doesn’t get that. I went to carnegie mellon. Where were computer science majors? And they were they’d be barefoot or they’d be flip flops or even barefoot in the winter? Not in the snow, but that’s. Pittsburgh personally had to stay inside. Yeah, i guess they yeah. There’s. Just shuttling between their dorm and the computer. Science, but still barefoot in the winter. Yeah, but yeah. That’s. The stereotype exists for a reason. One of my very favorite co workers, this guy matthew shop, is our hacker and residents and he’s very famous for wearing flip flops all year round. Yes. Does he wear the holiday parties like family events? Everything okay? Um, what’s going on there anything before we talk about the volunteer marketplace? Anything like insider and he anything coming up exciting you can share. I think the biggest excitement right now is the content platform. You know, we have this influence or platform that you’ve probably seen where? It’s, about three hundred incredibly famous people who do their writing on lengthen now. And we opened that upto all members, and so i can now write blog’s on lengthen. You can write logs on lengthen, and they get much more attention than they probably. What if we were doing it on a stand alone website? So content on linked it. Has been a big new thing for us. Okay, cool. Now you mention the influence of some people. Our designate? Yeah, i’ve seen that on some some profiles, i think designated influence. So you’re talking about used to be on ly there were three hundred or so. Right. Right. Good block. Okay, okay. Um now when it goes over five always wondered about this when it when it goes over five hundred, you have more than five hundred connections. Right? Then it just has five hundred plus. But there are people who have tens of thousands, but they only still say five hundred plus why is that? I think it’s because we don’t want to create a competition for having the most connections that your lincoln connection should be people you really know. And if we show on your profile exactly how many you have, we might have people just trying to compete to have the most, which would be a really valuable use of lincoln’s, which conan o’brien did it want famously in the nonprofit sector? Because he shouted out beth cantor! Yeah, i remember that because that was a great red hat. That’s, right and profile he had her hurry at her profile picture on the on his show, saying that he would he was lamenting that he didn’t have as many followers as beth, who had three hundred thousand or something like that. Yeah, i think it was in the three hundred thousands, and he made fun of her saying if he wore a red hat more and she came back saying instead of focusing on my red hat, how about you shout out? I think it was giving tuesday last year, right? But he didn’t he didn’t invite i think i’ve still got a lot of attention, though, for bath and giving tuesday, so you know, he still helped in his way. Yeah, beth beth was more informed. Beth was was more valuable, though, but he brought attention certainly linked in yeah, yeah e-giving tuesday’s doing very well later in december, going henry tim’s on he’s the founder is the executive director of ninety second street y here, our city, but also credited for being the founder of e-giving tuesday, yeah, i’m a big fan of henry’s and what they’re doing e-giving tio okay, so he’ll do a recap for us in in december, great, but we have you here to talk about the volunteer marketplace. What is this, and why is it valuable for non-profits so the volunteer marketplace is how non-profits can recruit skilled volunteers and board members on lengthen and it’s valuable because linked into the largest global network of professionals in the world, and eighty two percent of them want to volunteer their skills, which is really remarkable if you think about that. Yeah, so the vast majority of people globally are saying we want a volunteer, we just need to find a place to do it, and so we’re working with non-profits now to post volunteer opportunities and their board positions on lengthen and connect those with members so it’s the same system as we use for jobs, they are essentially job postings on lengthen. We just offer them to non-profits at either an extremely heavy discount or for free. Okay, where will non-profits find volunteermatch kit place? So at non-profit dot lengthen dot com all of the resources for non-profits air there, as well as links to post opportunities on the marketplace. Okay, and we’re going to talk about some of the resources i was clicking through. There’s some good. Stuff in there. Um, why? Why are we still called? Cos provoc way get that thing, i think it’s really just about having one tool that everyone uses. I get this question all the time, people saying, hey, why do i have to have a company page on dh? But we’re going non-profit dot lengthen dot com, right, right, but it’s so much we can provide so much more value as a company by using the tools we already have than building new tools for non-profits so we give non-profits company pages, we give them job postings instead of re creating tools that are just non-profit pages and have it be the same thing? Yeah, i mean, but like, just on the screens, couldn’t we just say non-profit name instead of company name? Could we could we do that? Yeah, yeah, i understand that. I mean, we we definitely know it’s. Ah, something that non-profits would prefer we’re working on the clerks. Um, yeah. It’s like, you know, we’re trying to be we are different. Yeah, non-profits are different. Andi. I know i’m not the first person to mention it, but okay, so you go to non-profit that linked in dot com and then you click volunteer opportunities. Is that right? So on non-profit darlington dot com there are a few different pages. One of them is fine volunteers, and that talks a lot about posting and searching there’s another tab for finding board members, and that really focuses first on searching because we also offer non-profits of free premium subscription that enables greater search visibility specifically to find board members. That’s the board connect you’re talking about okay, okay? And we have talked about that on the show, and you and i may have a chance to talk more about that bmc argast got boardmember connect, okay, but for posting the volunteer opportunities you click, click post volunteer opportunities, right? Right. So when you’re on non-profit, darling, do not come and you click any of those post links they send you right into the job posting flow just with a discount code there so that you get the discount. Oppcoll yeah, ninety percent discount is that right? Yeah, but actually i really want to offer all of the listeners to the show free volunteer postings, and so we will have a new option available where if you email volunteermatch murcott place at lincoln dot com and you say that you are listening to tony’s show today, we will send you a free posting code to be able to try out the volunteer marketplace. Okay, we have to say this again. You email volunteermatch kit place at linkedin dot com. Is that right? Yes. That’s. Right. Ok. And just and mentioned non-profit radio. Exactly. Okay, and this will be a test to see. Ah, you know what kind of ligeti this show’s got? Um that’ll be interesting because sometimes podcast listeners it’s a little tough to get feedback from them. I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but i know they’re out there because i see the download statistics, but to try to survey them, get them to feedback. Um, it’s it’s difficult, you know, i’m not trying make apologies, but i’m just letting you know now i can understand that i think they kind of do their podcast listening all in one stream of things like that, right? Or they’re driving while podcast is on, and so they’re not in front of their computer to e mail me write for them the third out of five that they listen to we got to take a break, alison and i’ll keep talking about the volunteer marketplace. Stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s do live listener love in the us? We’ve got multiple live listeners, but they’re yours. They’re masked. I don’t know, we don’t know even what state it is, i don’t and i don’t know why they’re mask that’s unusual but live listener love to our unidentified us listeners, and in japan we’ve got listeners tokyo, chiba and yokohama. Konnichi juana is more live listener love coming. Allison dorsey, thank you again for that generous offer, you’re welcome for non-profit radio listeners were so thrilled offering, but we’re looking for more people to try out the volunteer marketplace and get to connect with lengthened members looking to serve okay, three hundred twenty million and eighty six percent one of volunteers they are, yeah, metoo doesn’t wanna volunteer, and seventy eight percent want to be on a non-profit board it’s also pretty remarkable that is that’s outstanding and board connect. I hope we have time to talk about that. But we have covered that on another show before. Um okay, what are i mean, that’s? Another little thing? Yeah. It’s called it’s called job not volunteer opportunity. Right, so look for jobs don’t look for the window don’t look for the place to enter the volunteer opportunity will be called job well when you’re on non-profit darlington dot com it’ll say volunteer opportunity when you click over yet puts you into the job posting flow, and then when we send it to members that comes through in two ways. One lift your aa member who’s looking to volunteer, and you see all of your job recommendations from lengthen your right, they’re listed as jobs. The volunteer positions are mixed in with those based on your skills and interesting experience where we think you’d like to volunteer. And then if you are one of the members, think around six million now, something like that. Members who have added the volunteering causes field to your profile. We know that you have an extra interest in social causes, so we send you separate emails of just volunteer opportunities. Ok? We’re going to talk about that because i know you want you want non-profits to encourage their volunteers toe add that time were going absolutely. Get that. Okay. Um, what is cem cem common volunteer opportunities that you see, i think our most successful campaign so far has been around social impact managers. Sorry, social media managers. We see this all the time, especially on linked in, you know, a non-profit joints linked in, they set up a new company page, and now they need someone to help them manage that company page and post the right content and get more followers. And so that’s, our most common is people saying, okay, i need a volunteer to be my social media manager and also managed those those lesser twitter a secondary second responsibilities from social media yeah, way focus a fair amount on this show. Amy sample ward is the ceo of intend the non-profit technology and i heard her show with you last week. Yeah, she’s on every month talking she’s, our social media contributor is i know that that is a big difficulty. Big challenge for non-profits first deciding where to be you have to consider your resource is time and especially time and my right where to be and then how to keep that active what’s your advice around keeping the company page for a non-profit active what should we be doing? Yeah, i think the best thing to do is to distribute that responsibility so it’s good to have a social media manager who keeps track of everything and make sure that there’s enough content and that its content that’s engaging the followers. But it’s also really helpful tohave multiple people in the organization keeping this top of mind and either posting information themselves or funneling that information to that social media manager for them to post then the other thing is to post different types of content, you know, maybe a graph speaks to me, and i like to see data in that way, and maybe a video speaks to you, so having that variety of content forms so that different types of people can stay engaged with paige, we have to remember to there are lot of non-profits small and midsize that don’t have a social media manager, right? Maybe they have a volunteer if they’re lucky, but a lot of times it’s falling to the earth, person in charge of fundraising, director, development a lot of times, even smaller organizations, it could be falling on the executive director, right? So empowering others, including at those smaller organizations, the volunteers absolutely you encouraging an empowering feeding content? Right? Yeah. And i also think that it’s a great role for a volunteer tohave who’s. Not looking for a big commitment. If you say please post into my group around my company page every monday. You know, giving a really small role, teo, someone who wants to be involved with your organisation but doesn’t necessarily want to commit to being your overall social media manager. You mentioned opening up blogging now is that is that possible on the company pages so it’s on your individual account. So you posted and it links to your profile. And then what we see a lot of non-profits do is then post links to those on their company page. So if their executive director rhoda blogged, then they would link to it on the company page and is video a possibility there, too? Yes. Okay. In the volunteer opportunity section, i mentioned there’s a lot of resources. You got something from some advice from catching fire? Yeah. How to do the best. Ah, profile. Best volunteer opportunities. Profile. Yeah. There’s other resource is there? Yeah, absolutely. So catching fire provided a lot of those sample descriptions of skilled volunteer opportunities and they’ve been a really great partner of ours on the volunteer side and then bored source created sample postings on the board side because non-profits air frequently posting both board openings and volunteer partings. So those templates around there, and then we also have just kind of advice there, so separate from here is the template description is here’s how to make sure you’re representing yourself well on linked in, you want to have a strong company page so that when you write your volunteered job description, you’re linking over to that company page, and you’re keeping one centralized brand on lengthen. So a lot of those recommendations are on that site. The catch a fire ceo has been on the show. I know that, you know that too fantastic and following the show. Oh, yeah, cool. Not just saying that i don’t know what you really did. Look. Okay, let’s, talk about the this is interesting. The those profiles company profile pages for non-profits advice about keeping those up to date. I mean, aside from what you already mentioned and advice about maybe creating one if you don’t have one. Yeah, so that actually we got a lot of questions around. Should i have a profile for my organization? And yes, you absolutely should, but it should be a company page, so you don’t set up a separate account like a person instead, within your individual must take a lot of people make the page, they make a personal page because maybe company confuses them or you just don’t know, ok, but it should be, and i think it feels a little different to do it within your personal account, and so sometimes that throws people off. So once you’re within your personal account on the top of langton, there is a tab that says interests within that tab is the option for cos you follow, and when you’re looking at your list of companies you follow for other company pages, there’s also the option to create your own company page so that’s where you would do it, and then you would be the administrator of that company page. Okay, and how about advice on setting those up? Yes, so the setup process actually only takes about five minutes. You’re going to probably paste in information that you already have on your website about your mission and your values and your programs. And then i think images air really important. So usually i recommend tohave your logo be thie image that’s associated with that page whenever anyone links to it. And then you’ll also have the opportunity for a background image. So there i think it makes sense. Tohave, you know, smiling faces of the people you serve have it be really programmatic image and then post updates. That’s the best thing you could do is post updates there all the time. And i think a little known fact about most social networks is that the majority of actions taken on linked in our one member copying another member. So tony posts on update about non-profit who he follows, and then i go follow that company paid, too, because i trust tony and his instincts on which non-profits have content i’d want to see. So if you are just getting your company page going and you want more followers ah, great thing to do is to send the link to your company page out to your board, your volunteers, your other supporters and ask all of them to follow it. And then when they take that action and follow it, it will be shared with their network so everyone they know we’ll find out about your organization, okay? And that’s how your stream gets propagated out. Exactly. Okay, your page gets gets noticed. Okay, um, let’s see? Well, uh, you were encouraging. We also want to encourage hyre employees and our volunteers to take actions around our company page right kapin okay, we’ll start with the employees. What should they be doing? So your employees should to start with have strong linked in profile, so that that means is they have a photo. They have a summary. They have their experiences listed, and within their experiences they’ve listed you as their employer, and they’ve linked to your company page when they do that, so they’re selecting your name exactly as you have it on the company paid and then on your company page, it will show who all of your employees are. So those brands are linked, and they could also put the name of your organization within the list of organizations they support which just shows that they believe in your mission is organizations who support. Is that something you have to add or that’s by default on a profile? So that is within the volunteering causes field so you can choose to add that field, and when you’re setting up that field, you’ll be asked about thie organizations you support the cause you care about the ways in which you volunteer and how you’d like to volunteer in the future, and that one is really interesting to us or how you’d like to give of your time and talent. It’s actually, the first time we’ve asked a question on the profile so it’s, the first ford looking party, your profile where you get to eighty two percent so that’s from survey. So this new check box that says, how would you like to give your time and talent? You can check skilled volunteering or board service that has, i think around three million people who have checked that and it’s growing really rapidly every week, and so that’s part of why we’re so focused on getting mohr volunteer opportunities up on lengthen is to feed the demand from those professionals who are saying, hey, linked in, i’d like to serve you asked me if i would, and so now we’re we want to be ableto answer them and give them the right opportunities for them to fill in let’s, go to volunteers. What wish? What should be encouraged should we be encouraging our volunteers to do teo show their allegiance to the organization? So within that same section, they should be putting you on organizations they support, and they should be listing their volunteer experience within that field and again, linking over to your company paid so everyone knows that they’re volunteermatch your organization, and then they should be the most active proponents of your company page. They should be sharing your updates out with their network so their network knows that they care about this, and they’re keeping your mission and programs top of mind for all of the people that they know. And how does that how do they share? So when you post an update it they’ll see that on your company page. Yeah, and there’s just a share button on the update so they’ll share it out with their network. Any any unusual, weird volunteer opportunities that you’ve seen way see so many great ones. I don’t know if this is weird, but we our favorite story lately has been one warm our love story. They’re amazing. So one warm coat, i think, goes to that point of what you’re saying, you know, some small organizations don’t have a social media manager and might think that they don’t have time to do these things. And one warm coat is an all volunteer run organization where their board share sherry would has been so forward leading on all new tools. So when we launch boardmember connect, she joined it right away to use premium search to find boardmember sze. Then when we started testing out two years ago, what would it look like if we were to have volunteered board postings on lengthen? She volunteered to test those out, and then she found two new board members through these postings, and one was in seattle and was in texas. And this is ah, nationwide organization. So people aren’t in touch all the time, and she realized, you know, i really want to be able teo build community among my board members have a brain trust so that we can really set the strategic plan the next three, five years. And so let’s have a retreat and let’s get some volunteers who could be strategic planning consultants. Teo, facilitate those discussions managed the retreat really get us tto plan by the end. So she posted on linked in again. And she found this strategic planning consultant who said she would love teo volunteer her time during that weekend, and that she also want to bring in a friend of hers because he thought it needed to planner’s so they were amazing. They facilitated this whole retrieve they actually filmed themselves saying thank you for the opportunity and senate and dust, which was pretty cute. And, you know, sherry would the director of one warm coat, the chairwoman, one warm coat, one warm coat they collected and distributed four million coach last year. And it’s all volunteers. So i feel like if sheri and her volunteers have enough time to find a volunteer to manage their social media, really everyone khun take that opportunity because it doesn’t have to be you. It could be someone else who wants to volunteer their time. We have a couple of minutes let’s talk about the boardmember connect is the way of finding boardmember sze let’s, let’s remind listeners because its been many months or maybe even over a year since i’ve we’ve talked about this, and actually we have some updates since then. So one very exciting change on lengthen is that there’s a non-profit interest search fassett, this is a free search fast it available in everyone. Search experience on lengthen, and it allows you to identify those specific members that i was talking about who have checked the box, saying that they want to do skilled volunteering or serve on a non-profit board. So if you wanted to find someone in new york who has finance expertise and who is passionate about education and who wants to be on a board, you could select all of those facets within lincoln, search and find the hundred or two hundred or three hundred people that meet that criteria outstanding. Yeah, it allows you to tape a powerful, sir. Absolutely. You know, you could go from the three hundred and twenty six million lengthened members to drop down there going. Oh, yeah, all the time. But you could go from this huge pool where the huge pool is not really useful in and of itself. It’s. Only useful when we can take that pool down, teo the hundred or so that are exact members are going to talk to you. Okay, um, what do you love about the work? You do it, lincoln. I love the non-profits they’re using the tools we feel so lucky to get individual stories sent in all the time i managed our email aliases. So, like, i was saying, you can email volunteer marketplace that lengthen dot com that inbox gets so many great inbounds from non-profits saying, you know, i needed a logo and i knew i didn’t have money to pay for a logo, and then i found this volunteer on linkedin and here, check out the logo he designed for me. It’s so rewarding to hear how it’s actually working outstanding and the offer again is for ah, for free posting of volunteer opportunity, you email volunteermatch marketplace at lincoln dot com ilsen dorsey, it sounds like you’re going to be the one who sees the emails. I will, and then i’ll send you your free posting codes, okay? And mentioned non-profit radio, of course, in that important email. Thank you very much for being against. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And i’m glad it worked. My pleasure. I’m glad it. Worked out that you’d come in the studio and you can find them again on twitter, follow at linked in four arabic number for good that linked in for good allison dorsey, thank you again. Yeah, thanks, tony. My pleasure, tony steak too, and stop talking at me are coming up first. Pursuant they’ve got another free resource for you it’s the donor pipeline report card it’ll help you evaluate the health of your pipeline spot possible weaknesses and you’re donorsearch i plein and help you spot areas of greatest opportunity it’s an infographic you’ll find it at pursuant dot com under resource is check that one out. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising they’re not like the spelling bees that you are accustomed to through your years. They have live music and dancing and stand up comedy, and of course they’re raising money for your charity, and they weave spelling in there. Also take a look at the video ideal events for millennials the video is that we be ea spelling dot com now tony steak too! I’ve got a webinar coming up it is charity registration demystified it’s hosted by rally up, which isn’t all in one fund-raising platform rally up dot com i’m going to explain in plain language what this charity registration morass is all about so that you can get your organization properly registered in each state where you are soliciting donations like, why do you need to comply? What’s, what happens if you don’t? And how do you register and how to exemptions, work and one of the forms? And i’ll be taking questions, of course. Get those questions answered from you, it’s on october twenty fifth, it’s at one thirty eastern it’s free free webinar my video with a link to register for the webinar is at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two now for quick, non spurious real time live listen, love podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections you know that all three of those go out last week i felt bad gave it a little short shrift. We ran out of time. I hate that it cost me nausea and wolber rig mus last week after that happened. So the live listener love the podcast pleasantries and the affiliate affections are going out to you. Here are vicky jones and christine use stop talking at me. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen or in times square. New york city at the marriott marquis hotel. And with me now, are you, christine use and vicky jones. Christine is director of individual giving and external relations at the westchester medical center foundation. And vicky jones is planned giving officer weill cornell medical college. Ladies welcome. Thank you. Thank you, tony. Thank you for inviting your welcome. Glad to have you. Thank you very much. Your seminar topic is it’s all about communication. Vicki. Let’s, let’s. Start with you. Why? Let’s make it explicit? Why is communication so important? Well, it’s, especially important in the world of flynn of playing e-giving for many reasons, your donor may no longer be able to help you realize how the gift is to be allocated when the gift actually comes in. So communications and understanding that donor’s intent documenting that gift is very, very important. And, christine, what do we see non-profits not doing so well around communication? Well, i think communication is the key to relationship building. And i think that is really the basis for our line of work. Weigh have tio you. Know, build, strong, concise and really just heartfelt relationships and without good communication skills, you can’t do that. So and, you know, we’re we’re focusing on internal communication is that you’re focusing on the but in the office, correct. So in order to i think to have a strong outreach, you need a very strong to build a very strong infrastructure within the organization and that’s all based on communication and relationships. Okay, where do we get started with this? So take it. So so for me, i know we don’t we don’t do like volleyball. You talk for a few minutes, a few minutes, he took great. So i know for me a lot of times the challenge has been to build internal communications, internal relationships, and one of the i think i think the best way to start is just getting off your chair in your office and going around visiting the other departments that you need to work closely with developing strong relationships, inviting them out to lunch, making sure that you’re all on the same page, figuring out how you can help each other, how you can work together and i think it’s a lot of fun and one of the results i’ve had and i’m sure vicky would agree is, you know, when you leave in an organization you leave with all of those wonderful network, you know, that wonderful network and all those those contacts. Zoho so it’s, uh, not always necessary to just send an email to a colleague who maybe in the office next door cubicle down the hall we can actually get up on go talk to them? Absolutely yeah, email, email is so misrepresented or miss spread in many cases, people will read a tone into something that may not even be there. So i think that when you have communicated face-to-face is a good idea, and then just really saying it was great talking with you, i think this is a great plan and just reiterating what you decided to do based on those communications closer, very important and yeah, email texting i mean, haven’t we sort of lost the the art of face-to-face on dh, the joy of face-to-face i mean, isn’t it for me? I’m so much more pleasurable to have a conversation where i can see the person now a lot of times, it’s not feasible. But when it is when it’s just a walk down the hall, vicky, i mean, shouldn’t we take the walk? Oh, yeah, i think the walk. We have a lovely deep bass voice. Have you a radio trained or opera singer? I think i’m just coming back from either bronchitis or pneumonia, so i just got me on a good day. I got it perfectly. Uh, okay. Let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s. Go back. Christine, what are some strategies were beyond? You know what we talked about so far? And we have a good amount of time together. What else should be paying attention to internally? Well, i’ll just give you some examples of what i’ve done. And it’s been it’s been fairly successful so far. But, you know, basically again identifying the key department that you need to work with, figuring out how you can work together and making it attractive for them. So for instance, you know, just skip over. I know i’m in the world of health care, but in the world of education, admissions and advancement, if they can team up together, they can work together to pair alumni and incoming students and prospective parents and it’s. The most magical thing in the world and it’s so easy to dio but it’s just again, it’s just forming that relationship and we all know here that when relationships, they’re going arrive of the reason usually is because of communication, communication, breakdowns, miscommunication. So if we can really work on those skills and be very proactive, which i think is what we’re talking about, i think we can really change the landscape again building that internal network building the internal structure really speaks volume when you step outside of that institution and go out into the community and start spreading the good word about that institution. If you’ve got a strong network inside, it is amazing what you can do. You know, tony, one of the wonderful things about working at weill cornell medical college for thirteen years is that i’ve built a lot of relationships, not only with my donors, several physicians and faculty of the universe with the medical college, and we also because in dealing with playing, giving, you have to work with your director of operations. You have to also, in my particular case, work with cornell university’s, department of gift in trust, administration and when you work with somebody and in that function in so many different ways, you’re able to identify this, this is a problem, how are we going to be able to stop this from happening or re occurring in cannes? Come on, what are the steps that we can ensure that this one market and you have that relationship history so that you’re not only going to your colleagues when there’s a problem, but you have a long history of working together around problems, and i didn’t very smooth times that when a problem does develop, you’ve got that history behind treyz next-gen one of my favorite things to do, too. And now speaking more towards the medical side of it is just taking doctor’s out to coffee and identifying identifying what it is. They’re funding opportunities are what their hopes and dreams are. And then when you sit down and talk to donors and their expression, a certain wish to be apart, you know, have a philanthropic foot print at yours institution it’s really wonderful because you have all this knowledge in your head about the doctors and the researchers and what it is they want. Teo moved forward. With so i think a lot of what we’re talking about is just consciousness. You have to be conscious of deepening relationship, getting up from your chair, going to talk to colleagues, going to lunch with colleagues, it seems, you know so basic, but we’ve lost we’ve lost consciousness, i think about a lot of these things, tony, one of the things i’ve been working on in the past year is to try and break down the silos in playing e-giving there are many gift officers that i worked closely with that we’ll work together in meeting with a donor and discussing dinner situation with the donor on the telephone and meet with them together, and what i tried to do is i try to make sure that my colleague gets a shout out when any kind of playing gift happens, even if it comes through the annual phone let’s they perhaps somebody passed way. All right, this i always look at the donors giving history, and then i’ll say so and so passed away just received two hundred fifty thousand dollars through there, a state plan towards cancer research they gave for years to doctor and morris breast cancer. Research and i help the people that have been working in building the program know that they’ve been successful in a way they’re not maybe realizing so it’s, you know, it’s, it helps them build their understanding of playing, giving and make them a little more secure with concern. Among a lot of fundraisers is that if i give credit elsewhere, then i i’ve diminished my contribution to the to the to the gift you’re a plan to give the officer and you’re giving credit to the annual fund. A lot of people would think that, well, you know, now now my my vice president or directed development may not appreciate my role in that in that gift. How do we overcome that thinking what i try to do is they try and save this is, you know, i laugh and i told people i don’t get paid commission, so it really doesn’t matter, but what i want to do is to show a serious building relationships of working with gift officers, working in collaboration, you know, we’re trying to say that as gift officers, major gift officers working with our donors, we want to be able to tell them. Yes, i have thought about maybe, including will. I want my gift officers to work with me on a one to one level so that they can hear me saying to the donor, oh, i’m sorry. I have to ask to stay a couple of questions. I hope they’re not too sensitive, and that reassures the gift officers and understanding and feeling a little more comfortable themselves in approaching this questions. So as far as getting credit are, we’re working towards making metrics for our major gift officers and principal gift officers that they work her assist on a plank after two or three within a quarter. But where is beginning to incorporating that by incorporating that, we’re encouraging people to work together. More clap, christine is there. Is there another thought that you might have around? Measuring employees methods of collaboration so that it sort of becomes part of their their formal evaluation process. Well, one of my experiences just recently, too, has been that when you collaborate, it really inspires you to think outside of the box so normally funding sources that everyone thinks about, you know, again, we’re all sort of going after those individual donors, you know, corpse and found things like that. And recently, just sitting in a meeting and i heard a doctor give a presentation, and it reminded me of the research that was going on at a pharmaceutical company, not too far away from where we’re located. So it’s sort of opened up my creative juices, teo, maybe start talking, having talks with that pharmaceutical company to underwrite some of the research that we were doing. That really was a great match. And so i was able to work with the doctor, other team members. So we have team members on our development staff at our corpse and founds the, you know, corporate relations. So we were able to really pull in my individual giving experience with corpse and found with the doctor in the researcher and then the senior staff. And it was it was. It was an incredible collaboration, and it’s been very successful. So i love the way that vicky talks to collaboration and how important it is and how it’s being measured. But what i think the part that really astounds me is the amount of just ingenuity that is a result of, you know, innovativeness, that’s, a result of that collaboration. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, a gift. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Yeah. I think you’re doing a lot of nodding. Oh, yeah, yeah. That’s what i love about playing giving its i used to joke around with one of my former directors and i said, it’s kind of like mcdonalds too. You want deal number one don’t number to remember three it’s like once you get together with your donor and you’re talking about what are they interested in? Then you start thinking there’s a project and you know, how much money do they think they could do? Do they realize they could stretch it out over five years? Do they realize that they might be able to create a chair? Believe trust that could provide a income for their child and at the same time provide a societal gift to the medical college? You know, those air, the exciting things, and i think that when everybody starts talking about possibilities that’s, what’s amazing that deal one, two and three also reminds me of monty hall let’s make a deal. I was i was on let’s make a deal in my early twenties, like a deal. What was your costume? I’ve had a green cut out a piece of carpet and my sign said, monty, don’t be a jerk. Let’s. Make a deal. Don’t be a girl. There’s a there’s a deal and let’s make a deal. You don’t say let’s. Make a deal. Did you let’s make a deal? Oh, you did, d i don’t know don’t know. Don’t be a girl, let’s make a deal. Correct. Did monty pick you? I did get picked by you. Did you? Did you indeed a rubber band or a paper clip or something? That he was? I’ll give five dollars for the next rumor mill. I was offered door number one, two and three. And how did you do? I did. Well, i walked away with twenty five thousand dollars. Oh, my goodness. No kidding. That’s well and yeah, that’s. Outstanding. Yeah, about it in a box in new york candy bars. Go figure it’s better than a case of canned squid behind door number three. You got the song? So that was the big deal. You want the big deal? You know, it was more the first deal of the day. Oh, it wasn’t even the deal. Did he ask you if you wanted to trade your oh, yeah, traded every door. But you didn’t. You didn’t trade, you know, i think that’s where i got my first experience. And looking at playing, giving, like, do i really want to do this? Or how about that, eh? So you held on. You held on to your twenty five thousand dollar deal, has spent it quickly. How cool! Glad i mentioned it, by the way. You know, the lights overhead lights went out martignetti non-profit radio with casey crown, the lights are our lights never damn way. Go right through. That doesn’t matter here, uh, bring on the earthquake. No earthquake coming now don’t don’t. Okay, what else? Communications your seminar description. It’s all about communication. You mentioned events. Things can go wrong. Miscommunications around events. Somebody have a story about that or something admonition or something like a bout of each one of us are doing as a certain topic. I’m sure that both christine and i could talk about snappers and events, a lot of them, but we’re actually today i’m the one i’m going to be talking with. The workshop i’m goingto be leading is called dahna a donor disease in a doctor on what we’re going to be doing this. We’re gonna be talking about how a donor came and decided he wanted to support huntington’s research and he wanted to be with one of our top physicians that was doing research in that department. And then we’re going to talk about communications that happened involving that deal of you know what? He wanted to find and this makes the snafu who’s with this started with the fact that he was talking with the director of playing giving at new york presbyterian hospital. Many of you and our donors also were confused as to what’s new york presbyterian hospital while cornell medical center. Well, talk about communications mean, now, that’s not your department is branding and marketing, but that is that is there absolutely right? That is critical. There’s a lot of misunderstanding just in the general population of new york city. Where the heck newyork presbyterian, weill cornell and begin well, it’s a wonderful partnership, but what happens is when we’re working with their donors, we really have to listen to what they’re talking about supporting in this particular case, the the donor met with the director of playing, giving and the head of the department, and they did a little walk through, and the doctor discussed the kind of research he was doing on the donor was in love with everything that was going on and said, this is great, i want include something in my estate plan. I want to find an assistant professorship or maybe a full professorship. And at that point, the director of playing e-giving for new york presbyterian hospital went, i’m gonna have to give you to the medical college because the professorships air with college, because so so we have a collaborative work. Exactly. So he introduced me to the diner, and we put together a suggested request language for the the donor to help achieve his goal. Okay, in a collaboration, well, you know, actually, we could he handed it off to me because you can’t after that point wants to realize with gift is really going to benefit another organization, you know, you know, it’s professional e-giving professionals, we all have unethical standard. We have toe here too. And so, you know, knowing that professorship was, you know, through the medical college, he knew he couldn’t facilitate the gift any kindly directed the donor in the right direction. Christine, what is what are you sharing? So basically, i’m talking about something that mickey mentioned earlier about the silo ing and give you a quick example in the educational arena that i used to work in. And just, you know, just this morning i had a a meeting with a donor i had been trying to get a meeting with for nine months, and the key to the meeting was the chaplaincy at the hospital chaplain, one of the chaplains of the hospital, she this particular dahna was very connected to him personally, and it was because of that relationship, and i was able to get the meaning and working with him in collaboration. So here i am fundraiser working with chaplin, teo teo, just educate the donor, thank the donor for their gift and then to educate the donor on the programs that are coming up to see if there was anything she’d be interested in funding in the future and, you know, it’s like magic, i think you know, vicky would agree. It’s it’s, amazing when you have those internal relationships and those collaborations, the strength of your meeting is phenomenal, and i think that really shines through to the donor. So you’re really presenting a well unified well, educate, you know, you’re you’re well educated, your unified and i think it just presents a great picture to the donor and you feel the key to those relationships is communication. Absolutely so i’m one teo always get up from my chair. And, you know, walk to somebody’s office or walk around the hospital or, you know, go and visit a physician, i think the best place to have those informal meetings in the cafeteria and the coffee shop and those air sometimes some of my best meetings internally just catching up with people, finding out how they’re doing, you know, finding out what they did on the weekend and and all that time you’re building those great, trusting relationships internally, look, you’ll be doing a lot of nodding, yeah, because it’s that’s a wonderful thing i love is that love building relations it’s just it’s always i’ve always been a people person, you know? In addition to being fine getting officer welcomed a medical college, i’m also the president of the philanthropic planning group of greater new york, and what i really like about that organization is the closeness of the relationship between playing, giving people throughout the entire community. Um, you know, it’s, it’s, great tohave relationships that build over the years, one of the things that we know by staffing donors and since i’ve been there for thirteen years, it’s really quite unusual in the non for-profit world is that unfortunately, i’ve seen some of my gifts become realized, but i’ve developed relationships with my donors who at one time wanted to make a gift for cancer research because they knew somebody who had cancer. And then what happened is they learned about stem cell or the geo gnome, and they’re so excited about the science that’s happening today they’re like, oh, thank you. Tell me more about this what’s going on with that, and they wanted that, you know, our donors really want to know more about basic science and about what are we doing and how you’re curing diseases? And what do you mean some forms of lin former now curable? They’re very excited they have this huge, you know, diversion of interest. Now what’s the lesson in communications, you have to keep fluid, because usually what happens in the medical institution? Our gift officers work in either neural cancer. They work in pods, surgery, breaking down those silos right your earlier in christine’s. Exactly, because even though you’re you have a cancer donor-centric might change, but it’s building the relationship with a donor that you’re able to really truly understand, you got to get outside your own world. Exactly. Ladies, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much. Thanks, danny. My pleasure. Christine hughes, director of individual giving, an external relations at westchester medical center foundation and vicky jones, planned e-giving officer for weill cornell medical college. Thanks again. Thanks. Thanks much pleasure listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen. Next week. Have i ever let you down? I won’t. Again. Professor eugene fram returns with his new book going for impact the non-profit director’s essential guide book. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com, i beseech you, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com. Our creative producers. Claire miree half sam liebowitz is a line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And this great music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of offline as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for October 14, 2016: Unpaid Interns & Social Appreciation

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Gene Takagi: Unpaid Interns

Gene Takagi

There’s new law on this and it’s pretty good news for nonprofits that use interns. But there are questions depending where you’re located. Gene Takagi explains the ins-and-outs. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.



Amy Sample Ward: Social Appreciation

Amy Sample Ward

We look at social engagement for member appreciation or your donor campaign that doesn’t include an ask. Amy Sample Ward is our social media contributor and CEO of NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network. (Originally aired December 12, 2014.)



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Hello and welcome to tourney martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. My voice is cracked now that uh oh, you know that i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with duodenal atresia if i had to digest the idea that you missed today’s show unpaid interns there’s new law on this and it’s pretty good news for non-profits that use interns, but there are questions depending where you’re located. Jean takagi explains the ins and outs he’s, our legal contributor and principle of neo, the non-profit and exempt organizations, law group and social appreciation. We look at social engagement for member appreciation or your donor campaign that doesn’t include an ask amy sample ward is our social media contributor and ceo of n ten, the non-profit technology network that originally aired on december twelve to twenty fourteen on tony’s take two i cracked again to twelve years old, thirteen years old. Oh, tony, say to trump and and tc videos we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee. Fundraisers, we be spelling dot com. Jean takagi is with me. Very glad of that. Glad he’s back. You know him? He’s, the managing attorney of neo, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits that popular non-profit law block dot com. And he is the american bar association’s twenty six eckstine outstanding. Non-profit lawyer he’s at g tak. Welcome. Outstanding non-profit lawyer. Hey, welcome. Outstanding non-profit radio broadcaster. How are you? I’m great. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I don’t know. Have you been live? Yeah, you have. You’ve been live since since you got this outstanding non-profit lawyer award. Yes, once or maybe twice. But yes. So it is not the first that listeners they’re hearing it, but it bears repeating until twenty seventeen and then it’s old news and you’ll have to re apply, i guess. Hey, guess but this is my first time i hit the first lot of your show. So i’m honored. Was this the first time you’re in the first half? Is that right the first time? Oh, ok. That was not intentional. Well, see, these are the perks that come with being the american bar. Association outstanding. Non-profit lawyer during the’s the perks that come with it now twenty seventeen, we’ll be back down in the aisle. Squeeze you into tony’s. Take two. You get a minute and a half. Okay. No, not at all. Not at all. I love having you. You’re our longest running. You know, we’ve talked about this every every every july when there’s an anniversary, the show we talked about this, you’re the longest standing contributor, so by no means denigrate that. All right, we are we are talking about you have unpaid interns. So, um, i want to set the stage a little bit altum in in august, there’s a federal court in new york that applied a new test to dismiss an intern’s lawsuit against the hearst corporation. And just parenthetically, i think he or she is now screwed in that career that they’d better go back to school and major in something different because their their name is dirt in whatever they’re they’re majoring in now. But any case that was august and then there’s a federal court down south in that covers alabama, florida and georgia that applied that same new test uh, which we’re going to get through all this, but but the rest of the country is a little uncertain. So i just want to set the stage for you to explain to us, um what? What is the what is the problem here with non-profits and volunteer interns? Sure. So maybe if i if i take a step back to tony, you know there are employees and there are volunteers, and if your employees, you’re paid in your subject to, like, wage and hour laws and all of the rest, right? So everybody knows that and non-profits especially charitable non-profits often rely on their volunteers very heavily, and volunteers are so so important to so many non-profits, but it becomes a little bit tricky when non-profits decide they want to pay their volunteers. You know what they might call a stipend and it’s really important to determine whether by paying the volunteer, you’ve actually converted them from being a volunteer into a worker who’s paid right, which might typically be an employee. This is when you triggered all the employment, right? This is similar to what you and i have talked about with independent contractors just because you label someone an independent contractor. Or a volunteer or an intern doesn’t make it. So exactly so the legal definition. So, i mean, you know, part of you know what a non-profit might do is if somebody like that person in the hurst case said, hey, you know, you called me an intern or a volunteer, but i’m not on. I actually have gotten some sort of payments. I should be treated as an employee and, you know, the subject, all of deals, employee rights, i should be able to exercise them well, it’s not the label that created. So perhaps they have a case and there was enough of the case, and i think it might have been a class action or just multiple plaintiff sex bob um, in that case, but so labeling them a volunteer or intern, but giving them a payment might make them an employee. And so that’s, what you have to be careful of and the fallback position before all of these new cases, we have some guidance from the federal department of labor, and they just gave us a sixth element tests, and we’re not going to go through them all. But basically the internship experience has got to be for the benefit of the interns and one of the factors and that test is that the employer that provides the training can derive no immediate advantage from the activities of the interns. Yeah, and that’s a really tough criteria to place. So you’re you’re taking on an intern, you’re supposed to train them, you’re not supposed to displace any regular employees that you have, so they’re not just, like, take the role of an employee. It’s got to be for their benefit and in in that department of labor guidance which still serves most of the country the employer khun derive no immediate advantage. So it’s like that the intern can actually benefit your business, right? Not even not even marginally. Now you have the you have the six that are standing throughout big parts of the country and, well, all in detail at non-profit law block dot com. So yeah, why don’t we put in the more references in there? I hid some of them until we do this. I saw that you had your very clever. I really appreciated that you people need to goto non-profit law block dot com if they never have but and go back if you have been. But yes, you said, you know what advice for the future chicken after the show, we’ll add it after the show and you said what’s the current state or, you know, what’s new what’s the new trend checking after the show. So you you kept i love that. Thank you very much for doing that. I was really i wanted to comment, but you had comments blocked you had you don’t allow it. You don’t know your allow free discourse on on your on your block. Did you know that is that it started to become a trend on on that elearning perhaps we could talk about that another day, but we sort of get off track with the comments. Uh, really good political in every oh, jeez. Okay. Okay. I understand. All right, so but i did want to comment, but alright, so, yeah, the the this longstanding department of labor, the six test, the sixth element test, and then the different one is the new one is seven elements yet was very weighted to the in favor of the internet and against the employer. Basically is what i saw in those six yeah, well, it definitely could be read that way. Much of this is the same actually in the new test, but the big difference is that the employer can derive no immediate advantage is not in the news and it’s. More of the new one is, uh, more of a balance versus the old one. Or maybe current in a lot of places. The six elements you had to meet all six. Yeah, versus the new one is a balance. Or were more flexibility. Okay, i think i feel like we’ve done a lot of teasing the listeners we’re going, we’re going to flush it all that, you know, you know, you know what? We’re not gonna let you down, you know that? All right, we got to take our first break, gene. And this is what happens when you’re when you’re in the first segment. There’s early break. But then we get a long stretch together, so stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing some live listener love good. Jean, if you will indulge me, let’s, let’s, start abroad and ah, actually, let’s, let’s start in japan. Gene. Gene, you do you speak japanese? Gene schoolauction okay, i guess. I mean, that means a little bit. Okay. Okay. Well, i we say konnichi wa am i? Am i pronouncing that correctly? Like you are very close. Cooney is that better? Yeah, that was better. Okay, um, i exaggerating it or is that good? Well, we’re got it. Okay, thank you very much. Ok. Last time you’re in the first segment. That’s the end. Of course we have listeners from japan, but we can’t see your city today. For some reason, cities are masked and same thing in career we cant do you routinely can see cities but korea? Of course, on your haserot comes ham, nida and mexico city mexico bueno, star days. Glad you’re with me in mexico city. I love mexico city’s very nice. I’ve been through there a couple times norway again we can’t see your city but norway welcome live listen love to you and the philippines philippines live! Listen, are left to you that’s a new one? Do i think i’m not sure you’ve been with us before? Beijing is with us always so gracious multiple in beijing ni hao and also san juan, puerto rico would that be a way to start? Is also a way to start is, of course, san juan wellcome back here in the u, s, brooklyn, new york and new york, new york love it, love it! Brooklyn, new york in new york, new york live! Listen love to you st louis, missouri and garfield, new jersey look at this, i love it! And uh oh, late, late check in changsha, china also? Well, of course you get knee how as well for the doesn’t matter late chicken glad you’re with us in changsha and also las vegas, nevada to get some new ones garfield, new jersey brand new lovett and las vegas. I’m not sure you’ve been with us before, okay, we’re going to do the of course with live listen, i’ve got to have the podcast pleasantries and affiliate affections, but i’m gonna divide them up today. I’m feeling avant garde so those air to come. I never forgot coming. Okay, jean thank you for for hanging in there with me. Well, i get verbose, but it’s thanks. It’s. Gratitude, i think. It’s well placed verbosity. All right. Okay, so we are. We were talking about the difference between the two tests. The longstanding six elements all had to be met versus the newer one. The seven elements more balanced and s o fairer. I thought in my that’s being very subjective but in my opinion seemed fairer and friendlier to employees. Employers sorry, friendly to employers. So, um, let’s let’s talk about the newer because you summarized and again, the details are all a non-profit law block, dot com let’s talk about some details of the newer test that that got applied just in in august. It came from last year, though, right? Yeah, it originated. So for lawyers out out there, i’m probably very few. But the appellate chords sort of determined the law because a different district court might be on different sides of and then the powered court takes it and says, this is what everybody lower than us have to abide by and and the hearst corporation case with the lower court that applied the new tests that came from the second circuit, which includes new york, connecticut in vermont. So that’s, the appellate court that covers all those three states, they came down with a case called glad versus fox searchlight pictures. And i only bring that up because that’s the black swan case if anybody saw the portman movie oh, yeah, was he was based on an intern claim from from that project. So the second circuit said that hey, the department of labor test that’s not the approach we should use anymore. They actually said the approach we adopt reflects the central feature of the modern internship, which is the relationship between the internship and the interns formal education. And they said no six elements of which all of need to be met. Aziz said before it’s seven factors that were going away and the whole idea behind this is who benefits more the employer or the intern. Okay, so there’s the balance we get, we get the way a bunch of factors and see how how each of them comes out. Is that it? Basically, yeah. And that’s the modern approach not saying the employer can’t derive any benefit, which is the department of labor test, but saying, who benefits more the employer or the intern now, is this, uh, is this an an example for people who think that our courts are activists? Now we’re getting political, i don’t do politics, so we’re not going. I’m not going to give my opinion, but ah, of whether this appropriate or not, but this and this this is basically court made law, right? Because it’s the appellate court superseding a longstanding department of labor so executive branch test yeah, and, you know, the laws are either made by our legislatures or they’re made by our administrative edges agencies, they’re executive agencies, but if the you know legislature, does it there’s a lot of discussion, a lot of lawyers involved the administrative agencies khun do it just like that, right? So they create regulations that fall within the rules, and they’re trying to interpret them and it’s only through the court that we understand how to interpret their regulations and whether there are regulations are actually constitutional are consistent with the loss of this is the balance and check to the regulations and basically here we’re balancing the department of labor’s. Right. To create the tests and say that this is this is what the statute really contemplating. Okay. All right. So one one person’s balance of oven executive. Ah, executive regulations would be another person’s arbitrary lawmaking by courts. So there’s, the there’s, the two sides. And then we leave it there because this is not a political show. Okay, um, activist activist courts. Okay, so let’s, talk about the seventy seven factors in this balancing test. Um, on go. They all start with the extent to which so there’s your balance. You balancing phrase? Glad jean, once you get started. Sure. So the first is that both the intern and the employer clearly understand that there’s no expectation of compensation. So both parties no it’s, a volunteer position. And if there’s a stipend paid, you know, that’s that’s above and beyond what was expected, the expectation is no compensation. Okay? And it is a stipend that is in aa compensation for expenses that are that are paid out by the intern. Is that the stipend? Well, the stipend can actually even be a payment. Well, it could be a reimbursement for what the internist spending on. Their own, like, you know, the even transportation expectation, right? Commuting or the stipend could just be kind of saying, hey, you know, we know you’re working here for free, and we’d actually can’t afford to keep you as an employer, and we’re going to make sure that we fall within the department of labor’s or the court idea of an intern, and we’re going to give you some money. It might be five hundred dollars for the month, for example, and an employee minimum wage would be a lot higher than that. But you’re allowed to give entrance stipends within reason of longer. They really are unpaid interns and under these guidelines yeah. Okay, again, this is one factor out of seven. So a stipend is not going to kill it, but not like the old test where all six elements had to have been met. Correct. Okay. Okay. All right. So cool. All right. So you could give a reasonable stipend, a song that doesn’t look like a salary. Correct. Okay, okay. All right. What else we got there? So we got to that. That the internship actually have to provide training. That’s going to be similar to? The type of educational training that they would get in an educational environment, like, like in the school or in the clinic or something like that. So it’s inside a real life location, working location, but it’s still going to be a training element that’s really important, which makes sense. Okay, in addition to that, it’s got to be tied. The internship has got to be tied to the interns formal education program. So there’s got to be some sort of integrated coursework or the internet’s got to receive academic credit for it. Okay, now this is the second one about the the training similar to that which would be given an educational environment that seems like i don’t know is that? Is that common? I mean, i’m out of the workforce. I mean, i i i’m i’m unemployable, nobody would hire me. I’d be too much. I’d be way too much trouble. Way too many headaches. I’d be a you don’t want me, so i’m out of this. Is that pretty common? Like there is formal training sessions in an internship besides doing the day to day work? Yeah, you know, we would recommend that that be the case. It doesn’t. It doesn’t have to be like every day, and it doesn’t have to be like, you know, five hours of the eight hours that they might work. But there has to be. There should be a training element again. It’s, it’s, it’s. Not absolutely required, it’s part of the balancing test. But having a training programme is a really good tip. Okay. Okay. And then, uh, the extent to which it’s tied to the interns formal education program. So you have that might be, you know more about the class that they’re in. You know, they might write a paper about their experience at the internship. That would be integrated course work. Or they could just receive academic credits. Instead of taking a class or a clinic at school. They might just get credit for serving as an intern at a particular non-profit. Oh, well, that’s. Very common, right? I think the school credit comment. Yeah. That’s ah, it’s something that would be very important. Teo, incorporate. Okay. If you had a client, you would recommend that their interns air getting academic credit for the work they’re doing. Yeah. Or at least having their coursework recognized that they are interning at a particular non-profit and that they’re completing some sort of assignment related to that. Okay, okay. Actually, i said if you had a client, i didn’t mean to suggest that gene takagi sze practice has no clients. That’s, not the case as you are counseling your many, many clients, you would recommend what i just said. Okay, um, all right, let me i mean, i’m going to read one. I feel i feel like meeting, um, the extent to which the internship accommodates the interns academic commitment by corresponding to the to the calendar. So you gotta weave this within. What? What the intern is doing over over at their university. Right? So you don’t want to go. Hey, i know you have a class between nine and three on monday, but we’ve got work needs. You better come out here or you’re gonna lose your job. You can’t do that. Okay. Very bad. Alright, so so the employer really does need to be working with the the academic institution. Whatever is, i mean, it could be a high school, too. I suppose there needs to be a lot of coordination. It seems like yeah. Or the intern has got got to represent what their schedule is, and the employers got to accommodate that. Okay. Okay. Sorry. That’s a good one. All right. Um go ahead. You go. You go now. Okay. What about some pictures? I don’t know. Then the next one is extent to which the internships duration is limited to the period in which they’re receiving this beneficial learning. So you can’t have an intern for five years. Who’s not learning anything beyond the first six months. It’s tied to the learning again. The primary beneficiary is the intern, not the employer. Okay, the duration should be limited. Okay? And should it be limited to the to the academic calendar year like that way? Well, it might be limited depending upon what you’re tying it to see if it’s tied to just one course, it might be limited to that course. It often is limited to the summer in between, you know, the fall and the spring semester. So, it’s, just you want to make sure that they’re learning during that period and it doesn’t look like if i could jump to the next one. I’m going to take your place and let you take the last of it doesn’t displace a paid employees jobs, you’re not just taking a paid employee position and saying, hey, we don’t have an administrative assistant for this program. We really need one, but we can’t afford one what’s hired an intern on ben, train them for two days on howto answer the phone and make copies and then let them work, you know, for a year doing right, right? Right now now if if you were challenged, if the non-profit was challenged, how would it demonstrate that one that it wasn’t displacing an employee? How would you how would you go about defending yourself about that? I think you would say that you know what? We designed an internship program in advance? We did not fill a whole unemployment hole with just somebody that we hired on just called them an intern. There was a training program that we created and established in advance with thoughtfulness to make sure that they’re learning in this program. Andi put them in this position for this limited period of time, i think that’s how you show that it wasn’t intended to displace any employees on its intended to compliment on dh, you know, for their learning. Okay, okay. Cool. All right, you go ahead with last night. You’re the guest, please. Okay, so that the last one seventh factor is extent to which the intern and the employer understand that the internship is conducted without entitlement to a paid job. So it’s not like intern for us for the summer and we will guarantee you are we will strongly consider you for a job in the fall when we’re hiring for full time positions. So as your screening in turns on daz, you’re negotiating whether they’re going to come on or not, you don’t want to be emailing or saying the wrong things. Yeah, and, you know, they might really have a leg up legitimately have a leg up when you’re hiring for a full time position in the fall, because now they have a bunch of experience, but you don’t want that to be the basis, and you don’t want to entitle them to it, so they shouldn’t have the expectation that just because i intern, i’m automatically. I’m going to have this job now. Suppose someone in the organization e mails to the potential intern during the hiring process ah, you we always give our interns preference in employment at the end of the internship. How does that how does that sound to you? Yeah, it sounds like it was the gate. The factors in the balancing test thinks so, yeah, it wouldn’t be a great fact, but by itself, it probably isn’t gonna like kill them. You know that the argument that they’re not ok, but it doesn’t help so better to do things that that help your employer than rather than don’t help or, you know, neutral. So stay away from promises or preferences or anything like that of a job after your internship. Yeah, we want to stress like this is a great learning experience for you, and we’ve designed it to be a learning experience for you that the email you want. Okay, okay, now i’m not sure we made this clear, but i want to that the maybe it’s absurd and everything that we did say so the so these seven factors is balancing test. We know that this would apply in the areas that are covered by the two, the two, the two courts in new york and connecticut and vermont, because that would be a second, that concert like a second circuit. And we know that that they seemed the same. Seven apply in alabama, florida and georgia because that’s the eleven eleven intricate. Which also said that hey, when they considered in a case on appeal, they said that tests the second circuit test. Sounds right toe. Okay, so that’s for those six states that leaves forty four states wear those forty for if you’re not in one of those six. So the best guidance they have is the department of laborers. Six element. Okay, but that still has wide application in every other state. Yes. Okay, but what if a ah, now what supposed case arises in one of those other forty four states and that and the courts in that circuit or state decide we we are also going to take this second circuit seven factor balancing test. And even though you were relying on the department of labor, we are telling our region that it’s the newer test that applies from the second circuit, then the organization will be screwed. Yeah, they might be if there is, there isn’t a higher court in those other states. Those forty for other states. If there isn’t a higher court opinion that says the department of labor test is the one that you have to use, which probably for most jurisdictions, there isn’t that decision. So right? Because so long that was into court to say, hey, we’re going to use the second circuit test tube. This is more modern sounds more fair to us and then it’s upto sort of the higher court to decide whether you know, and they’ll only take it if one of the parties appeals. So, uh, if it’s been non-profit lost on it, and then you know, the lower court said, hey, this is an employee, we use the department of labor standards, the non-profit if it wants to pay a lot of money to go to an appellate court, i could say, hey, we’re going to take it up and fight this and see if your hyre court will say, no, we should apply the second circuit test, too. Mmm. Okay, so i’m feeling bad for the people in. Well, i won’t. I won’t list the forty four states, but like my friends in wyoming and indiana and iowa and let’s, see who? Else is listening live. Wait, let’s. See nevada? Well, listeners, we got listeners in nevada and missouri and no new jersey. New york. You’re covered florida. Oh, monica lee is with us in florida, chicago, illinois. Our friends in illinois. Well, i’ve listened love to each of those places. By the way, what do we tell them? I know you’ve got advice. Yeah. So, you know, this would apply to every whatever job. Okay, this is advice for all fifty. Okay. Oh, even better. I better get a signed writing. First of all that when you hire an unpaid intern that there’s an understanding in writing that this is an unpaid position. And we talked about developing the position as a learning experience ahead of time and then filling it, not the other way around. Throw in some educational sessions during the time that might not be. Might be one a week, for example, where they get, you know, learning it could be a videotape or an online presentation or in person training by supervisors and you, like your supervisors are also paid on the difference. Are also trained on the differences of managing an intern versus managing an employee. Is going to want to do that differently, including on enforcing likes scheduling and accomodating school schedules and emphasizing the education rather than giving them a lot of menial work that didn’t actually result in any academic o our educational benefits. Okay, gene, the intern let’s. Let’s. Go back to the one right before the the educational sessions. You like them to be unrelated to the the interns day to day work. Yeah, well, not unrelated, but they should be separated out. So maybe at the end of the day, there’s an hour and you do this once a week and say, hey, what do we learn from all of our, you know, your work experience today, you know, if it was mechanical, whether it was, you know, counting, background or program management. Like what did you learn that, you know, let’s, you know, write me an essay and let’s discuss it or let’s, just, you know, hash it out. And as the supervisor of the trainer in this case could could tell them what their perspectives are and what they should be looking for, how to help their clients the best so there’s a lot more into it than just sort of doing the practical work. Okay, okay, we have just about a minute and a half left just enough time for the remainder of your advice for doesn’t matter what state you’re in. Sure, so require proof of academic credit eligibility so you don’t have to sort of do it at the back and to make sure that they actually got the academic credit but require that they’re going to be offered academic credit. Okay for the internship. Okay in-kind assess and limit their their operational duties that day to day stuff. That’s really menial again? It doesn’t mean that they can’t make copies and get coffee for you, but if that’s a big part of their job, then you’ve got a problem there. Limit the length of the intern relationship. I think the last thing i want to say is and for foundation president darren walker wrote an opinion in the new york times a few months ago, you know, saying that the internships are not a privilege, and it made a strong case for paying interns and providing a handup and not, you know, treating it as a handout, so if you do that, if you start paying your interns. You’ve got to be careful that you haven’t made them employees, so make sure that you know the department of labor guidelines, and if you’re in one of the second our eleventh circuit’s st make sure you’re familiar with those guys, flint, and we’ll have it up on our block that well, you want to go back? Well, they’re familiar now because we just talked about it in detail. Yeah, okay, but yes, more detail at non-profit law blogged dot com which you should be subscribing to and reading regularly and followed jean on twitter at g attack jean thank you very, very much. Thanks, tony. My pleasure. Pleasure having you in the first segment. Social appreciation coming up with amy sample ward first. Pursuant, they have another free webinar this time it’s on donor acquisition proven techniques to add new names to your file acquisition examples for every budget. And they’ll have strategies to convert mere impressions into new donors. Impressions with your organization this is on thursday, october nineteenth at one o’clock eastern email me tony tony martignetti dot com and i will send you the registration link. And if you can’t make that it will be archived because i know a lot of our affiliate stations may be playing this after thursday, the nineteenth we have you covered, email me again, tony attorney martignetti dot com and i will connect you with the with the archive so you listeners are covered. I got you, i got your back don’t worry about that. Um, that’s pursuant and they are at pursuant dot com to check out that webinar, we’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising these are ideal for bringing millennials into your organizations work not like any other spelling bee you’ve been a part of or you’ve seen check out their video, which includes clips from events, and you’ll see that there’s music and dancing and stand up comedy and fund-raising and spelling as well, ideal millennial events. The video is that we be ea spelling dot com now, tony, take to you may have heard a couple of weeks ago, the trump foundation got punished by the new york attorney general for not being registered before soliciting in the state of new york very bad and i try to make this a teachable moment, so i explained what the requirements are. Um, in my video and i’ve got another video in the same post, which introduces the first group of non-profit technology conference interview videos, i got thirty two interviews and i’ve played a bunch of them on the show there more are coming, but there were all video too, so if you miss them here, you can check the videos or if you’re ah visual person like i tend to be more visual than watch the videos, and they are all on this first group is all on digital digital data disruption, digital inclusion, your modern digital team and digital metrics. Did you see the pattern there? Okay, my videos with links to those four ntcdinosaur o’s are at tony martignetti dot com. I was very pleased with myself. I stayed out of the politics of the trump foundation. I just very straightforward. I think i was very objective there. That’s tony’s take two here’s amy sample ward on social appreciation from the december twelve twenty fourteen show you’re going to hear some live listener love there, you know we’ll send it out. It’s erroneous, but we love you anyway. We got amy sample ward have monitored for being late. But nonetheless, she’s, the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten her most recent coopted book, social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement and we’re going to talk about appreciation and engagement. She blog’s at amy, sample war dot or ge? And on twitter she’s at amy r s ward any without cubine well, you may have heard the west coast had a bit of a storm last night with lots of power outages, so just dealing with getting everything back online. Sorry, that’s okay? I did not hear that i’m sorry. You have you don’t get snow there in portland, oregon. Very much. It was not. No, it was actually very warm and, you know, wind gusts seventy or ninety. Some crazy high speed, actually a piece of building downtown just a few blocks from the intent. Office blew off and crashed through the fifteenth floor windows of a law office while the lawyer was working there. No, it was a very interesting evening. Pieces of a piece of a building flew off. My god, yeah, very unfortunate. Very unfortunate for that building owner that it flew into a law office. Right? They’re prepared to think that only you know, that broken building is screwed. Okay, now i understand you’re, you know you’re like, like all the contributors, your typically early, you’re not even just on time, so i understand completely. Let me ask you about something before we get to our appreciation campaigns. Yeah, and just like in the past four months, i noticed at facebook they spun off their messenger app, and at four square they spun off. They’re a nap called swarm, and i’m wondering why why it is that these huge two huge social sites would spin off two separate aps big chunks of what draws people to them. The facebook it’s the messages message i’m sorry messaging and it’s a four square the whole purpose of four square is checking in, and they spun that checking function off too. A separate app called swarm why do they do those things? I have a few different ideas, probably none of them have any, you know, piece of reality in them, they’re just totally my own experience trust your way, trust your judgment. I mean, i do think that one piece that factors in is the you know we’re all we’re using different act all the time and if i am using facebook to connect and i’m able to kind of multitask inside of their consent messages, i can post things, whatever, and then i leave facebook and i go to some other messaging app to talk to friends. You know, facebook just had fifty percent of my time, but if i’m using facebook to do that, i closed facebook and then i opened my messenger app and start messaging people there. Now facebook has one hundred percent of my time in that example, you know, so it’s providing a way for the app to be it me and focused as possible, but then still own the other nation focused parts that you know you want to do. So instead of having that all in one super multitask kind of after experience, you’re splitting that off into ap, and part of that, too, is that you know, facebook is more of an example of this than four square, but a lot of facebook users in the beginning were all using facebook on their computer where was a lot easier to kind of multitask. Have a chat, you know, send someone a message post on your news feed whatever. Well, now, you know, most people are using facebook on their phone, so it’s it’s much more difficulty to be multitasking inside of a nap. So again, you have multiple app that are all technically rolling up into the same umbrella. So it’s easier from the user’s perspective, i don’t have to import all those new contacts in new app it’s still facebook, but it’s focused on what i’m doing there, okay, that one and then you always have to factor in like, well, how are they? How are they monetizing those ap? Whether the ads, what are they selling? What’s the data they’re able to capture? And if you have multiple apse that are more focused and maybe have different different data pieces that air getting pulled in, then that’s even more opportunity, i see. Ok, and the one thing that does resonate with me eyes the ease of use of the app. The facebook app gets a little it’s a little busy so i could say i had to see that spinning. Okay, see, that is a good reason, but okay, monetization too. And andi, just time, time, time that they want you paying attention. To their they’re brand okay, yeah. I mean, if you want to think about the four square example, i mean, when we first started using foursquare, it was you could check in somewhere. I am here. You know, you could see where your friends were, and then they really started in and encouraging users to leave tips and post recommendations, and then they rolled out some features that we’re trying to see where you were and then ping you and say, hey, is this where you are? What if you do this thing here, you know, and have offers and promotions? So it became came. It became a little busy, right? So it made sense been off that other piece that’s more the recommendations and the where to go and where your favorite places. Because now that’s almost like competing with yelp, you know, give them a second app. That’s more in competition with maybe app. Those users are already, you know, have installed on their phone right and system apart a bit from that. Okay, cool. Thank you. Thank you for those insights. I find myself actually checking in a lot fewer. A lot less often now with the with the separate swarm app that’s that’s me. I don’t know, i have no idea what the statistics are, but i just thought, you know, i don’t feel like i haven’t even used it since that which happened interesting. I mean, i had a very boring foursquare news feed in which i only checked in an airport, so i did, you know, i used to only see you at airports that’s, right? I just thought you were just there all the time. Okay, well, it was a way of saying, hi, i’ve come to new york was around or i’ve come teo wherever. All right. Thank you. Let’s talk about appreciating our donors and maybe and volunteers and maybe even employees through the through the social networks. We don’t always have to be asking for something, right? I don’t think that we have to be asking for something. And i also think that really great. Ah, really great. Thank you. A really great sign of appreciation will be met with eagerness to give again or to volunteer again or two, you know, come again, wherever it was that you were an event, etcetera. So i think, you know, i have worked with people and organizations where it felt like if we’re not including an ass, you know, we can’t necessarily devote the staff time and energy to put on appeal together on dh, you know, i get that if you’re really strapped, there’s only three of us, you know, we have to make this happen, but i really think that taking that time to just say thank you really goes so much further in building that relationship, which we want to talk about fund-raising a special, especially individual fund-raising that’s really that’s really the peace, right, it’s building that relationship, you know? I don’t know that you could sure maybe you don’t mail something out that is a hard cost of male and all those thank you letters, you know, but i think there’s got to be a way, especially with social media, where it can be so much more quick and nimble to say thank you and make it feel really good. So maybe for twenty fifteen, we can plan an appreciation campaign. Yeah, let’s do it. Okay? And you have a bunch of examples we’ll get to talk about some of the examples, but what? You know this true of probably any campaign that were we’ve talked about in the past, but what do you think we should be thinking about as we plan our let’s make it what is most likely a donor volunteer appreciation campaign, napor which would be, what do we have in mind? So one thing that i think we need to have in mind is the timing of when we say thank you, i think often we always think, okay, well, we’re going to ask people for money. It’s december, right now, you know, so say everybody’s got their end of your appeals, and then when someone donates and it goes into the database, they get their confirmation email and it says, thank you, and we made sure that it was a really nice thank you letter, but it’s a confirmation email and it says thank you and we feel great because they got think i also think there’s a lot of opportunity to have said thank you before that ask went out if we if it’s december it’s the end of the calendar year, right, what if november or even that very beginning of december is when you make sure everybody that’s already donated, donated in the year or maybe donated last december or volunteered so far this year came to one of your events this year. Whatever it is, it’s important to you is a monthly member, whatever they get thanked for what they’ve already done. So when they received that end of year, ask they feel like, oh, i’ve already been recognized. Maybe i do want to give a little bit more. Or maybe i do want to come to the end of your, you know, gala, whatever it is, i think that that’s really important and some thing i don’t often see organizations do say thank you. First on dh then that people up for that ask later. Yeah, you get them feeling very good when the actors come that’s really interesting. All right, we’re going to go out for ah, quick break. And we may end up dividing this into two two conversations since we got a little short and i you know, i had an extra question for you, but we’ll get through. Well, well, great. Certainly. Nobody’s going to be short changed on non-profit radio. It just is not going to wait. All right, we got to go away for a few minutes, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I like the drama in rob mitchell’s voice. Thank you. Rub some more live listen, love quick woodbridge, new jersey i love all the new jersey sabat fort lee woodbridge let’s go abroad croatia sorry, we can’t see your city. I have a friend who works for unicef in croatia, ireland, turkey and vietnam. Vietnam we can see you cities kanto and hoochie minh city live listener love out to each of you. Okay, let’s, continue thinking about r a campaign of appreciation, something that we’re always emphasizing together because you make me pay attention to it is you’re going to have to do this in the channels where your donors and volunteers are not in the channel where you would prefer to be thanking them exactly. And i think i think part of that is, um, uh, struggle and an opportunity so there’s the, you know, if we see just use antennas an example, if we see people are tweeting about their local tech club and they’re an organizer, so they’re, you know, big volunteer for us, we wantto jump right into twitter and start engaging with them and thanking them and pointing people to them and, you know, doing whatever, but then we also want to find ways where we leave that channel to make something private just for them. I think there is that thank you and recognition that’s public. Um but for example, last week, everybody on staff sat together and just passed cards and everybody wrote thank you cards and signed everybody else’s thank you cards and mailed those out to aa group of what we call community champions, you know, really, really great volunteers for us. And it didn’t take that long, but everybody physically wrote, you know, out that card and we never mail things to tech. You know, we don’t ever male things were a technology organization. So when those folks received the cards at the end of last week, we started getting emails were like, oh, my gosh, you mean, how did you even have my address? You mailed me a card. This is so cool. Thank you for thinking of me. So i thought fingers that in the moment go into the same channel. That person is and thank them and engage with them. But then find something that can be special. That’s just between you and that donorsearch or that volunteer or whatever that makes them feel extra special. Excellent. Excellent. Videos are very common. As as an appreciation method. You could do them and mass, and you could do them, maybe even individually. Which i think i think what most difficulty when we think about video is one of the most often pointed two examples of how to do a thank you to your donors that i see in block post every year is charity water and how they, you know, record all these different videos so that, you know, if i donated, i opened up my email oh, my gosh, here’s a video where someone is saying, you know, hi, amy, thank you for donating, and i’m like, oh, my gosh, they made this just for me, we, you know, most non-profits do not have the staff capacity to do that, or if we’re going to be really honest, maybe don’t necessarily feel like they have the technical skills to create lots of videos and added them and feel like they know howto get them up quickly on youtube and embed them in an e mail and send them out, you know? So i think that video khun b really personal, but i really think organizations should consider video something that can be personal because they’re being really authentic and they’re being their individual selves versus you’ve created separate videos for every single donor that makes sense. I mean, i think it’s a non opportunity for staff, whether it’s executive director, other staff to just not feel like it has to be a high production video that it’s really just me sitting at my desk, if you, you know, you sitting in the studio creating a quick, very authentic video that says thank you, and you can share that either an email or, you know, share that video on twitter, whatever that is. But i think it’s better that it’s, that it’s really authentic as it’s created versus feeling obligated to create, you know, tons of videos just so that it has people’s names in it doesn’t make sense for sure, because you’re saying that something that’s authentic, genuine, heartfelt will will come across and people are people don’t really expect to have a personalized video made for organization that can do that, you know, that is terrific, but the vast majority cannot, but everybody could be genuine, you know? I mean, i try to come across genuine on a mic and in video, and a ceo can do the same thing, and and you’re right, and staff to you you have examples of each of those thie all right, the ceo of girls inc has a very nice, very thoughtful video judy reading berg and it’s just her sitting in an office and it’s like a minute and a half video and she’s very genuine. Yeah, i actually i’ve i’ve talked to a lot of people at, you know, at our conference or other conferences where, you know, they say i’m the executive director, you know, i know that if i’m going to be in a video, of course it needs to be, you know, like in a nice setting or, you know, we don’t have a very pretty building, you know? We don’t have, you know, our offices and very nice i don’t know where that comes from that feeling that, you know, you’re the executive director and you’re going to create a video for the organisation. It has to be in some, like, beautiful, you know, sound studio. I love it when it’s literally your desk like i would if i was working with girls inc and judy has hurt you. I would say put more messiness on that desk, mate, make it literally your desk. You know, people. Maybe she’s, super neat and tidy, which i also am. I have currently two things on my death, but but maybe that’s really her desk, but just haven’t be an invitation to come in and sit down with you. You know, i think that’s, um, that’s a really great and super easy way for any organization tohave a video feel like it’s being personal, you know, you’re just inviting them into the space. Of course, if it’s on office, where you’ve got all kinds of things in there, that can be a video. I mean, of course, there’s going to be, you know, exceptions to that statement, but i do think just invite them into your office have, you know, make it feel like someone sitting down with you have someone literally in the video sitting down with you, whatever you can do to just make it feel like you’ve been brought in, you know, personally, we just have about a minute left there’s an example of a different one from nature conservancy, which is a whole bunch of staff from all over the world, and a lot of it starts with them each saying thanks to you and then whatever it is their job is and how, how the donors all support their work, whether it’s underwater, you know, forest and grassland that’s a lovely one, too, thanks to you, yeah, i love that example video from the nature. Well, we can we’ll send out these links and everything for listeners on dh i love that they use is an opportunity to highlight what staff do because with an organisation like the nature conservancy, often times you don’t even know. I mean, i want to support the nature conservancy, but i don’t know i’m supporting them because i don’t even know how to do that work. I don’t even know what you would do, you know? And so i think, it’s a great way to highlight this is actually what our organization does. These were the kind of staff that we employ to do this important work, because again, if you’re goingto follow-up later with another, ask donation request, people now have that understanding of oh my gosh, yeah, you do need more funds because this is the scale of the work. These are the kinds of people that, you know, need to be on the ground doing this. And i want to support that. We have to leave it there. Any sample ward ceo of inten, you’ll find her at amy, sample, war dot or ge, and also at amy, r s ward on twitter. Thanks very much, amy. Yeah, thanks for letting me talk about appreciation. I appreciate you so much, tony. Oh, amy, oh, my god, that’s. Incredible, thank you. I’m grateful. I’m so grateful that you contribute month after month. Thank you. More gratitude live. Listen, love check, but the podcast pleasantries in the affiliate affections i got a lump them together because sam is telling me i’m running out of time. You know i appreciate your listening, whether it’s an am fm station or in the time shift from your own device in your own time, my pleasantries and my affections to you next week. I’ve never let you down. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be spelling dot com. Our creative producer is clear myer off sam liebowitz is that line producer keeping me on schedule. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and our music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and degree. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of offline as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for May 13, 2016: Social Change Anytime Everywhere

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Amy Sample Ward: Social Change Anytime Everywhere

Our social media contributor and the CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN), co-authored this smart book, “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.” When it was published in 2013 we talked about how your nonprofit can raise money, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our anytime, everywhere world. It’s worth hearing again. (Originally broadcast on March 15, 2013)



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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of amblyopia if i saw that you missed the friday the thirteenth show social change, any time everywhere our social media contributor and the ceo of non-profit technology network and ten co authored this smart book, social change, anytime everywhere when it was published in twenty thirteen, we talked about how your non-profit can raise more money, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our any time everywhere world it’s worth hearing again, there was originally broadcast on march fifteen twenty thirteen on tony’s take two there’s a new video and i’ve got five minute planned giving marketing tips. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, also by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay for mobile donations crowdster dot com we’ll take a break and when we come back, we’ll go right into amy sample ward. You’re here that you’ll hear that she was a little late getting. To the studio. A little huffing and puffing from the subway will go right into that. After this break. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’ve got live listener love forest grove, oregon welcome forest grove you haven’t been here before. Welcome. Lincoln, nebraska, brooklyn, new york and woodside, new york welcome live listener love out to all of you let’s. See in aa. Tokyo, japan. Osaka, japan, and fukuoka, japan. Konichiwa, welcome live love tto live listen to love teo each live listener amy’s not here yet, so we’re going do a little a little preview of her book, a little browse through her book. The first thing that i want to point out is that i wish it had more pictures when i’m when i’m picking books. I i flipped through looking for pictures and i probably would not have bought her book. It didn’t have enough pictures for me. I like pictures like more graphic, so it has graphics and has some screen shots. It’s very good that way, but i would like more. I would like more pictures in amy’s book. Aside from that, any sample word has just joined us. Well, i’m sure you did. All right. Pick moment. Take a moment. Compose yourself if we figured you were in the subway, i was just saying, i wish your book had more pictures. Oh, yeah. Pictures of what? Just it doesn’t really matter. I don’t know. A cute dogs, landscapes, landscapes. Yeah, i just looked and i look for pictures as i’m i’m browsing through the book section. The books, it was meant more for reading than browsing, but okay, take another breath. Yes. You knew you knew that we were waiting for you, and yeah, i was going to be fine, but welcome. Thank you. Have you for the full hour? Yeah, exactly. I’m happy to be here for as much of the subway would let me to be our best majority. I did tony’s take two in advance. So? So whenever i’ll have that time together, congratulations on your book. Thank you. It’s called, written by alison is keeping kapin kapin much. Tell us about alison she’s, the founder of radcampaign and the tele summit and network women who tech she’s based in d c uh she’s. Pretty. Cool. Yeah. I met her because i was at your book launch. Oh, that’s right book launch that you did at the at planned parenthood. Planned parenthood federation. Yeah. Yeah, that was very good to about forty people. If you got to meet your husband, max? Yes, very nice. Often left alone as your traveling throughout the country. Yes. That’s the that’s the first time he’s ever seen me speak in any capacity in public? Yes. He said that i didn’t talk to him. You know, first time i know for certain that lovely. Okay? We’re in a what? Why do you let’s make this clear? But okay, i need any time everywhere, what’s, what’s our anytime, everywhere world that you are trying to help people make social change in. Well, the anytime everywhere is really focused on the people, not the organization. So all of your constituents, donors, supporters, whatever you want to call them, they are, you know, living their lives basically around the clock, their life. And they are thinking about okay, if i want to talk to this person, i’m going to do it here or if i want to talk about this topic, i’m going to do it here, you just interact with your community. However you do as an individual, it might mean a friend calls you and then after you hang up, maybe you go look at facebook and interact with another friend there and then maybe send your mom and email, you know, but you’re not thinking okay, well, i only talk to sam on the phone, and i only talk to my friend barb in email, you know, you as people, we don’t treat our communications and our networks in that way, so organization shouldn’t be saying, ok, well, we only send you emails or we only let you talk about our campaign on facebook. We need to think about the way we communicate and allow our communities to engage with us as as a way that crosses all those channels as well, okay? We’re not segmenting our lives and write our community our conversations, right? Stilted, like communications are conversations, right? I see somebody on foursquare check in and i’ll make a snarky comment or something. E i have seen one of those geever andi didn’t answer it as i recall, um, in fact, you were recently traveling, you were in south by southwest i wass that’s ah, what i think of it is just a big music and party and drink fest. Is that what many people think of it that way as well? I’ve never been there at the beauty of being me is that i can know nothing about something and still be an expert in it. Yes, of course. Oh, i think i’m very well acquainted with south by southwest, even though i’ve never been there. Why don’t you tell us what the rial tell people like me who think they’re getting everything that they know nothing about but it’s a very comfortable place to be actually i what is south by southwest? Well, it are very originally was a music festival, but now has three components music interactive, which is really all kinds of technology, not just social media, including gaming and all kinds of interfaces hardware, software, etcetera and film. So film and interactive take place the same week. Concurrently on then the following week is all metoo xero were you there in your capacity as membership director of non-profit technology network? I waas so there’s a non-profit lounge there lounges of all different types sponsored by different people. So there’s, a blogger lounge meant for bloggers to find each other, etcetera. So the non-profit lounge is sponsored each year by beaconfire ah, long time, you know, and ten member organization sponsor, etcetera. And they opened it up for others to get to be in the space with them. So and ten had a presence. We had a couple couches, if you will. And i was also working with them to manage the content each day so that people that were started in the lounge. Yet what kind of cause that we had was that we had a different topic each day. So we had one day was focused on measurement and metrics. One day was focused on engaging millennials. One day was focused on technology, staffing and the capacity around technology. Um, there were a couple more, and we so we highlighted little, you know, not not trivia because they’re real. But, you know, just little tidbits from our research each day based on that topic. So you come in the room and learn different things. And then at lunchtime we had panels on that topic so people that we knew were going to be either at south by southwest are actually based in austin that we could bring in to talk that day, just with who ever wanted to be there and engage with them. And then night times that was the drink fest in. Well, for some, i think drinking started as early is, like, eleven, because i guess technically it’s noon on the east coast, huh? Yes, yes. All right, anything. Did you learn a couple of one or two little things that that you didn’t know or maybe reinforce something that what was your was your take home from from south by the has to be some? Yeah, i think you know, they’re always different applications or tools that get launched itself myself west. So people, you know, waiting, teo, unveil some new application, and so there was a bit of that as well, but i think this year, the feeling that i got from a lot of the non-profit and social impact crowd at the conference was that people are really starting to get to a place where they feel really proud about some of the things they’ve done in their non-profit and they they wish, you know. Hey, what? Why don’t we get all the attention? You know, just because that really big organization, you know, that has tons of marketing budget and had tried and tried many things and then succeeded with something, you know, we’re a tiny organization, and we did that to, you know, they want a platform for their voices to but, you know, south by is always kind of mixing up the content and have had different tracks and and things like that over the years. So it’s not to say that there will never be a platform for them, but i think this year there are a lot of organizations there, you know, looking for a place where they could stand on their soapbox and then get to share with everyone what they’ve worked on, all right and excellent that they got that exactly like to see that small, especially small and midsize shops getting attention. Craig newmark wrote the forward to your book. Craig is the founder of craig craig’s list, of course. And craigconnects he’s been our guest on the show twice? I think that was a trivia question once. How many times you been on the show? Oh. Did we do that? Oh, i think we did. I think for a giveaway and weigh just you were my guest for the hundredth show and we’re giving away, yes, but the answer’s two way long ago gave away a lot of intense swag for us to give away. Yes, and he says in the forward that social media and good customer service or big deals you think we were going, you and i talk every month about social media, we know that that’s a big deal goodcompany mers service, why? Why is he talking about that with respect to social engagements? Social change? Well, i think it doesn’t matter if you’re for-profit aura non-profit if you do true direct service or not, ah lot of the most basic day to day interactions that you could be having with your community take the form of customer service, even if you know, in a non-profit we normally don’t call them, but answering people’s questions or just being able to be present on social media, where you see people asking a question, even if it’s not about you being the organization that i can answer the question for them and really playing. A service role builds community in such a small kind of passive way, but that israel and you’re creating value with them that it is a matter you know, if you are comcast and you want to use twitter to answer customer service questions or, you know you’re the humane society and you want to use twitter to make sure people know how to get help with their animals and and, you know, i like your just broad definition of what’s customer service. I mean, it may just be interacting on a day to day, right? We may not think of it as a service to the customer just having, you know, we’re just engaged in a conversation there on the engagement ladder and which is that we’re just, you know, talking to them, right? You’re exactly right and helping helping your supporters take advantage of all that they could do with you is customer service, you know, someone calling and saying, i want to volunteer, but i don’t know how and you pointing them in the direct in the right direction that is still a customer service function in your organization. We’ve got some live listener love, we’re talking. About texas, austin, texas, where itself by was but we have san antonio on the line, santa or on the web, you know, antonio, texas live listener love, welcome, welcome to the show and the conversation let’s talk, talk a fair amount, i think about fund-raising and then how will we even, you know, engagement and advocacy get, you know, getting talking toa advocates and motivating advocates, and you spent some time talking about the different motivations to give why white people are giving on dh there certainly have been articles and books on this right by the the traditional, i guess. Fund-raising pros that are out there, you you spent a little time with emotions, emotions versus statistics, right? What would you like to say there? Well, obviously, we are humans, we are driven by emotion, and i think that a lot of online tools facilitate that really well, you know, how many times have we seen a tweet or gotten an email where they say, you know, this many million people in this country are dealing with this issue and it’s like, okay, well, i don’t actually know a billion people, so i can’t conceptualize that very well. You know, but having a story that directly connects with you and is someone that’s already been served by that organization helps you understand the kind of person that is may be dealing with that issue and the way that the organization helps them because that’s really what we need thio conceive as the person who’s going to take action, isn’t that what does it really mean for a billion people to be dealing with this issue? But what does it look like to help a person with dealing with that issue? If i can conceptualize what changing the fate is, then i can understand how i can help it and be a part of it. But if it’s just the raw data, it’s really hard to see what the action is in that, and social media really helps with storytelling because you can have, you know, people interacting people sharing their own story in response to that story, it really facilitates that. But the other part of emotion is our natural competitiveness and, you know, not really wanting to say, oh, yeah, my friend karen gave a lot more to that organization that i did. Who says that? Who? Says, oh, i gave the least of my friends, you know, and and tapping into that natural competitiveness, you know, using peer pressure for good is actually very successful. One of the research reports that we sight in the book was in pledges, so so, like a pledge drive over the phone. But still you could do this on social media. But when the caller you know, talking to the donor said that the previous caller had given more, then they were about to pledge they then up to their pledge, and they upped it even more when the collar sad. Oh, actually, the woman before you, if it was a woman collar and once they knew it was the same gender is them. They gave even more so just by presenting the opportunity to be outdone by someone else, people wanted to beat them. We’re going to talk that’s. Outstanding. We had a guest. I had guessed professor gen shang from the university of indiana and she had done research with this was telephone based also with public radio in bloomington, indiana. When when? When certain, whether she had five key words and when they were used to thank the person you’re or to describe the person as as a donor. So you’re very kind of you to give or it’s very compassionate of you to give that it increased the the donations right for that call. And actually i think that we’re doing it. I’m being a little inarticulate, but where they were doing it was want to thank you for your kind donations in the past, or your compassionate or your thoughtful donations in the past, and we hope that you’ll you’ll help us today. Yeah, those using there were five different adjective she had and they could trigger they would trigger hyre giving than someone who who was just thanked. Thank you for your past giving, right? So this is this is really interesting when it’s gender and when there’s a comparison to the previous calling out, how were they, you know, like what the language they were using? Because you don’t be snarky about, right? Right? Do you remember? I know they were introducing that it’s now the top of my head. It was something like, you know, similar. Like, thanks so much for your desire to give the woman before you donated fifty. How? Much would you like to donate? So you’re just kind of using it as a the context setting statement and then giving them the chance to say like, well, darn it, i’m given sixty five, you know? Yeah, yeah, excellent. Okay, going back to your point about big numbers versus a face, i found a quote, i’m going to quote mother teresa, i found a quote that that’s pertinent to this, i think she said, never worry about numbers, help one person at a time and always start with the person nearest you social media can make a story come alive. It could be a person near you could be pictures on instagram. It could be video youtube video on your block you can you can put a face to the homelessness or the hunger that affects a billion people right, and show people how their gift will will impact that that story right? And i like the part of the quote that says start with the person nearest to because that’s too, what we’ve talked about many times in the show don’t go out there and try and find these new people you already have a community of people. That you work with that you’ve served start with their stories and then other people will come out of the woodwork, you know, that identify with that story or that have also been served, but maybe hadn’t talked to you before, so start with the stories you already have and just show them out to the to the rest of the community. Ok, so some peer pressure, yes suffering make a little point about about suffering can be a valuable, motivated give yeah, it’s kind of a weird nuance on competition. It’s it’s part of why things like walkathon tze and challenges of you know, if i if someone donates five thousand dollars, i’ll shave my head because we we actually really liketo watch each other have to deal with something that we don’t have to deal with. And so it’s it’s part of why we can say great, you know, if you pledge, i’ll have to run this many miles terrific. I would like to see my friend have to run that many miles yeah, and again, doing that in a place where all those people, you know, in a like a thon process where all those people are. Competing for donations gives you both layers of the captain’s competing against each other for the most pledges, but then also all of their friends saying, oh, yeah, i want my friend to have tto shave his head back in the dark days before, before i knew you as well as i do, those were the dark days they were well, they were more your doctor darker for you if you’re going there were much darker for you before you knew me then, and then before i knew you, i was used to now so you’ve even like you, really? You haven’t liked me because i used to pay more attention to vanity metrics. Then you and i have talked about vanity tricks, and i’m going to give the quintessential example of it in the second i pay less attention to those things now more involved in the more thinking about the engagement, and i was paying at that time very close attention to the number of facebook like likes, likes of the show’s facebook page, and this was a couple of years ago, and i wanted to get to three hundred and i don’t remember where we started, right? But i i with some high school friends of mine who were willing tto co chair, the campaign i issued the blue pedicure challenge and i said that i would get a blue pedicure if friends from anywhere but the two friends from high school with cochair radcampaign if we would get to three hundred likes. And of course, we did get the three hundred likes within a certain time is like two weeks or so. We’ve got three hundred and and i went across the street from the studio here. There’s a rope on the second floor there’s a salon. And i got a blue pedicure and i had video it’s sons on the youtube channel. It was great fun. Yeah, and people said, you know, a soon as we got the three hundred are weighted the blue pedicure. Yeah, it’s tony gonna make good on the way we want to see the photo. So i had video of me making my appointment, which was won. And then i picked my color. Nice different shades of blue. Of course, of course. Pick my blue color. And then i went back a week later for my appointment and i upgraded to the paraphernalia axe also, i got the paraphernalia. I don’t even know what that means, but well, they put your feed in warm wax. Oh, interesting wax. Okay, yeah, i don’t know what i’m supposed to soften. I think too interesting. That was my first and last predator. Like so many questions now, so well, they’re all answered on the video there i’ll go to the video i blocked i met blogged it too. I know it’s on the but certainly it’s on youtube blue pedicure challenge you took a multi-channel approach to this pedicure experience. I did that’s true because we campaign was in multi-channel and then the impact in the outcome were were probably blawg and certainly facebook on dh youtube e did take multi-channel provoc any other and plenty of engagement. Lots of engagement it was great fun. Yeah, it was good. So pie in the face you use the pie in the face example in the back there’s a picture of someone one of the few pictures in the book has someone getting those lots of graphs and good pictures has someone getting a pie in the face and there’s a picture of alison’s dog in the book leah leah lida, lida lida. Like peter with a now. Okay, why is why is there a dog picture? Because they adopted her. And so there’s ah, case study in there about an adoption campaign. Okay, so there you go. There’s a picture and it’s a cute i didn’t say there were no pictures. I said it’s not enough to suit me. We’re coming out in the fall with color book edition, graphic novels like graphic novels. All right, we have just about a minute before break let’s talk about the last area of motivation sharing impact. You and i have talked about this before, but let’s just remind listeners how important that is. Yeah, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, i think a lot of organizations, when they think sharing impact, they think, okay, well, you know what? The campaign’s over will send an email that says, we got all of the money, and now we’re going to do the thing. There we go, that’s the report, but but there’s versions of sharing impact that are kind of like evergreen content. You know, the putting, putting some of your expenditures or big, successful things. In the footer of your email. So anytime someone goes are in the photo of your website, anytime someone goes your website, they see this is how much money is being devoted to programs. And this is what those programs have created or whatever. There’s also reached the research that shows on donation forms where you actually show the impact of the money. People donate more so again, just just keeping it really clear, clear and present all the time as an opportunity. Right? Wait, go away for a couple minutes. And when we come back, of course amy stays with me. And i hope that you do too back live in studio it’s. Time for a live lizard. Love i feel like doing that now. Sometimes due later. But it’s my show do whatever the hell i want live listen love new bern, north carolina live listener love to you love north carolina and new york. Checking in big bloomberg blooming berg upin the stuart area blooming burghdoff york, new york, new york and rego park in queens loveless or love to everyone in new york and north carolina. Let’s go abroad. Tio, tokyo, japan. Konnichi wa multiple tokyo naturally, that’s, that’s standard and multiple korea seoul. So, chou i hope i said that, right? Korea on yo haserot some listeners in india today that’s unusual welcome, welcome live listen love to mumbai and siliguri again i hope i said that correctly in in germany we’ve got wartenberg, guten dog and we got buenos aires, argentina bueno, star days excellent, lots of live love what comes after live listen, love i know you know it’s a podcast pleasantries how can i continue with how could i do live? Listen love and not podcast pleasantries it’s not possible. Likewise arika do podcast pleasantries, not affiliate affections you can’t have one without the other and the other are ten thousand over ten thousand podcast listeners. So grateful for you thank you! Thank you for listening so loyally and our affiliate am and fm stations. So grateful for your listening across the country affections to the affiliate listeners, whatever time and day your station fits it into your schedule. I’m glad you’re with us now pursuant and crowdster pursuant talk about generosity generous with their knowledge and research. They hosted a free webinar ten days ago. So may third i talked about it here. I hope you took advantage of that. They had over five hundred people on the on the web in our outstanding. Now that wasn’t their research. They had a ah a guest sharing lessons from walt disney. And actually, i might be thinking about him for the for the show here. Apparently he’s a big walt disney fan. And he’s, also a fund-raising consultant. Gonna look at him, but they they pursuing does put their own research out in white papers and seminars, and they do it gratis. And i admire that. Plus they have that fund-raising tools that are perfect for small and midsize shops. Pursuant. Dot com. The madison park co operative preschool in seattle, washington used crowdster peer-to-peer fund-raising for a brand new event. They had been doing galas, and they got away from that. They want to do something daytime that would be more family oriented. It’s a school. So they tried this first time a polar plunge in lake washington. The school has about a hundred families. One adult from each family took the plunge. The others were cheering on. Their goal was twenty thousand dollars through the crowdster peer-to-peer fund-raising sites that everybody created the raise. Twenty five thousand dollars outstanding. The school is thrilled. Crowdster works small and midsize non-profits crowdster dot com. Okay, well, tony’s, take two. I’ve got a new promotional video for non-profit radio. There are shots of me in central park. It’s got interview clips, standup bits, it’s three minutes and that video is at twenty martignetti dot com or on youtube, where my channel is riel r e a l twenty martignetti some swine up in the boston area took tony martignetti i had had add rial to my channel life’s tribulations first first world tribulations. Terrible. Um, let’s talk a little plant e-giving marketing because we’ve got a little extra time because, uh, well short with amy because she came in late so i’ve got some i got what i call five minute marketing tips planned e-giving it is not a black box is not hypertechnical. You do not need expertise to be successful in plan giving. You do not need a lawyer or a consultant to start planned e-giving marketing. It is not on ly for big non-profits and it is not on ly for major donors. All those play those back if you need to, but those are common myths that i constantly and dispelling when i do plant, giving workshops, training, whatever, so count all that back, play it back if you need to easy tips drop a few speaking points into remarks at your events like this. I’m excited we’ve kicked off a campaign to encourage you to remember us in your will, it’s very simple to do if you’d like more information, please talk to and then whoever it is and then what? That was that person say all they’re doing is giving advice on some very simple language that goes into the person’s will, but you’re directing the person back to their own attorney to create to create that language you don’t, you don’t have to provide the legal language totally unnecessary. Another idea in your annual report or in a newsletter? Put a little sidebar we’ve picked off a campaign to encourage you to remember us or your or your name, you know, in your will, it’s very simple to do secures our work long into the future, and you’re you. The info that they’re going to need is your legal name, your address and your tax i d number your donors then present that to their attorney and drop it into the will. Very simple. Five minute marketing. I’ve got a ton more, but some easy plan giving marketing don’t be put off by plan giving. Please get started. That’s tony’s, take two here’s more with amy sample ward. Thanks for joining us. Multi-channel let’s. See what you bring in-kind caroline, caroline caroline xero eyes are san antonio is that i believe shut up, san antonio. Um, okay, so we’re all about multi-channel we should have a plan for our multi-channel now engagement strategy comes out, we ought to write. Yeah, you want to have goals? You and i have talked about some of this before, but right, putting it all together now and you’ve put it together in a book. So it’s ah it’s worth it’s worth revisiting the stop. Yes, because they are important. Our multi-channel plan goals. How we’re going to figure out where we want to be. Well, especially for fund-raising you know, goals have to be really specific. It’s hard to say we’re going to do this year and campaign because we would like to raise some money and you know where? We’re soup kitchen, we do things that are important, although important, not compelling has a goal for your staff to even create a campaign out of, but also for your donors to want to support. But if you can say if we raise this much money, it will actually give us this many meals in this much time, you know, three hundred meals over the course of the month. If we can raise this much money, people then can imagine bourelly you know what their actual like hundred dollar donation means as faras how much is served, but it also sets you up to do more than your asking, you know, if you say we’re we’re shooting for ten thousand dollars and that gives us us three hundred meals for the month of january as soon as you get close to the goal. It’s really easy to say terrific. Now, if we get ten thousand more, we can feed everyone for february two instead of those campaigns that you see where they’ve done a really great job, they’ve activated their community, and once it starts, they actually start raising a lot of money, and then they get to the end. And they think terrific close down shop, you know, the thermometer reached the top instead, you’re setting yourself up to go is much, you know, raise as much as you can in the time that you’re planning to run the campaign, and you also set yourself up. If, in case you don’t reach your number, you’re still able to report back in a successful way of saying, you know, we had high hopes of raising ten thousand and we didn’t get there, but we’re still have enough to do two hundred bills this month, and this is how you could help us, you know, after the holidays to serve those last hundred or whatever. So giving yourself a really clear goal lets you iterated kind of as the campaign goes and respond to how, how it’s doing important, do you think tio, have a time limit to your your fund-raising goal? Definitely ah lot, whether you have one week or a one month or however long that the time is, you’re going to see an initial tick and then a big drop in the valley and then as it gets closer, you know, everyone starts donating again, so it doesn’t. Really? I mean, technically, it matters. You don’t want to say this is a yearlong donation campaign, but whatever the duration, is it’s really clear or it’s really important to be clear about when the end date is so that people know? Ok? It’s coming, oh, my gosh, i better donate now and and they actually respond to that e mail instead of just saying, oh, well, i could do it next time i remember or next time i have my wallet now we’re gonna have to figure out how to message messages campaign, so that should be a part of our our plan also, exactly, and a lot of organizations, you know, when when starting to think about a campaign fund-raising or otherwise get really excited in that staff meeting when you start brainstorming like the catchphrase of the campaign, you know, and that can be fun and enjoyable, but very rarely are the witty catchphrase is actually the things that include the action and the ask, so don’t spend too much time thinking of like balloons for ur or whatever like crazy thing that maybe is related to the campaign is because you want to make sure whatever. Very simple phrasing you use and then build your campaign off of includes the aschen, the action. So what, you know, give or do this thing for, you know, this many meals in this time? And then once you have that core messaging yu khun, start planning out of communications calendar that’s reflective of all those channels you want to use remembering, of course, offline or direct mail and not just e mail, etcetera. The other part about messaging that i see organizations forget about is is they concentrate on how they’re going to launch the campaign, and their communications calendar will say, you know here’s, the first email that goes out and here’s, how we’re going to decorate our facebook page and rebranded there’s no date in that planet’s launch plan on them. Exactly, exactly for exaggeration plan. Sometimes organizations say, well, you know, we want to be responsive, we want to wait and see how it goes. Well, that’s totally fine, but you could still say our plan is to send a second email day three of the campaign, and we’ll be able to say what you contribute, darling, you need to have planned out when you’re going to message so that you can say great if day three, we’re going to send it on update email let’s, make sure later that afternoon facebook has an update as well, and not just another, you know, status report or something, so it helps you maintain a good flow across your channel so it’s not always responsive and you’re you know, twitter isn’t just thanks, thanks, thanks, but also has things to share out, you know, that match your other communications you meant now you mentioned offline also. So this is that we’re not just talking about online social social networks, but the offline strategies should be coordinated, if that’s the way that you’re right, typically engaging with people right? And some organizations may plan an offline launch event the day that the campaign is launching. So of course, you know there’s a lot to do there, but it’s also a good reminder to to capture content from that launch event that you can use throughout the campaign. If you have a bunch of people in one place, make sure summer your staff have their phones or flip cameras or something to take some videos, and then you have maybe half a dozen videos you can use during the course of the campaign that again, just bring up on individual story give you some divers content, etcetera, you know, whatever kinds of content you could pull from that live event but it’s also a good reminder that many organizations, even while running a campaign, have other work that you’re doing. And so maybe you have a press event about some of your other work use that as an opportunity. Once the press component of that piece is over, you know you’re done talking about that policy change, you have a room full of people, then say, great, you know, this is all done i had now want to talk to you about this campaign we’re running, and we’re on day five and it’s going really well and here’s the story take advantage of all those awful and opportunities to engage people kayman sample ward is a cz membership director of and ten, which you’ll find it in ten dot or ge and the book that we’re talking about, whether that she co authored is social change anytime everywhere you khun follow amy on twitter she’s at amy r s ward which we know stands for. Rene the artist for rene and her block is amy sample ward, dot or ge? Get some more live listener love madison, wisconsin. Tustin, california. Salem, oregon. Welcome, salem. Welcome. You’re in. So you were in salem several months ago. You were in somewhere in oregon. Weren’t portland, portland not very far away. Okay, italy, we don’t know what city in italy. We just have a vague reference to italy. Bon giorno, chow. Welcome live listener. Love also tio sudbury in ontario, canada. And barnaby burnaby. Pardon me, burnaby in british columbia, canada. Two provinces welcome, canada he’s offline strategies. Amy, um, could also be so for, aside from events direct mail, if you usually using that channel telephone. Yeah, right. This these could all be coordinated in your three day or one week or one month campaign. Yeah, especially if you have stories that you know you’re going to use ahead of time in your campaign. You know, things that you’ve collected in the past, because if you khun send a direct mail piece, especially just something simple, like, ah, postcard or, you know, an invitation to participate in the campaign, that is from that person, or telling that person story has their photo. And then two days later, you can send them an email that says, great. Now, the campaign’s open, and it has that same story. People then can say, yes, i know that story. I ready to kim. You know, i’m ready to join or actually remember that they’ve signed up with your organization at all, and that they should be engaging in this campaign. And that direct mail piece wasn’t a like mistake in their mailbox in their apartment building. What do we know about how donors give across multi-channel versus more traditional the off, strictly offline? Well, that data is changing every year is we actually get more and more data at all have more people that we can ask survey, etcetera and and organizations are also becoming more sophisticated with being able to track their donors with they came from online or not, and then just able to report that data so it’s getting more it’s getting clearer every year, but really, we know that people that are online aren’t just saying because i found you online, i want to give to online or because i found you offline. I want to give to offline there’s actually a lot of back and forth that happens. And for most people, even if they are millennials, where people think for some reason, you know, young people only ever look at facebook even if they found you on social media, they still come to your website tto learn about your work and figure out if they want to donate to you so that relationship, maybe on facebook, that relationship may be off line at events they attend, but they still want to go to your website where they can kind of take control of what they’re looking at on your website and learn about your work. So it’s still really important that you have information on your website, but also that you provide that donation, ask an opportunity button, what have you on your website so that once they go there and learn about you, they could take that action? We also know that activists are seven times more likely to be donors, so we can’t treat people like, well, this is my activist list in this database and over here is my donor list because those activists are totally primed to now give you money, they just put their name on a bunch of work for you, they might as well, you know, give you ten dollars, so it isn’t just about allowing them to come to you wherever you are, but also making sure you’re giving everyone the opportunity to to engage in donation or fund-raising asks, excellent, uh, keeping with our multi-channel a z, i said you could join us on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio there’s some folks on the facebook page and we have a phone. Call. We have tim. Tim, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you very much. Hi, dad. Ah, that’s. Adorable. Dad called yes. That’s to sweden. Where you where you calling from? Amy sample wards. Dad. Well, i work important oregon, but amy was raised, and we live out in the country outside of portland. Okay. And, uh, of course, her mother knew first and called me and said, oh, my god, going to computer your daughter’s on the radio. I just had to get on here, listen and tell everybody i see how proud i am of this. Oh, thank you, dad. I love you. Now, i hope you’re gonna listen. Other shows to tim, you know. Oh, i will now want you to be a regular starters on there. Yeah. Do you have? Do you have a question? You really want to ask? Amy? Yeah. When’s. He coming home. This’s too sweet. I love this. I’ll see you on saturday. You will at a girl. All right. Find adal. Proud of you, amy. Thank you, dad. Nice to meet you to let me on it’s. A pleasure to meet you, tim, if you want to, if you want to. Ask a question of amy. You can call eight seven seven for eight xero for one, two, zero, eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to zero. Or you can also treat us. We’re monitoring the hashtag and the facebook page. That’s. A very nice way of saying you’re stalking social media in case people ask questions. Here in the studio. I’m busy talking now thought control. We want to engage people in our messages, whether they’re online offline and you talk about the hooks we have just a little we have a minute before a break, what just once you just tease the idea of of the hook a little bit. Sure, i mean, different people have different ideas of, of messaging hooks and what you can do, but i think for people really thinking about multi-channel campaigns, the important idea of a hook is that that’s, the consistent piece you’re going to throw in so that whether you’re maybe sharing a photo and a story of someone on facebook that day or you’re sharing a big infographic about, you know, all this work that’s going into the campaign or maybe it’s just tweets about simple actions people can take you use a consistent hooked to bring them back into the campaign. So it isn’t just like this photo or share this info graf or, you know, retweet this step, but there’s an additional hook that always connects it back to the larger campaign, so people don’t think, oh, the campaign must be over, and now they’re just sharing info graphics, but but that there’s always some peace, hooking it all together. So it, you know, you want to break the campaign and into individual stories, individual images and smaller actions, but they have to be connected. Otherwise, people don’t get why am i doing this today? And i did this other thing yesterday. We’re going to go away for a couple minutes when we come back, amy, and i’ll keep talking about your your multi-channel plan and what should be in it, including the goals and the messages in the hook that we’re talking about. Stay with me. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises strong’s best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trans sounded life that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i am his niece, carmela. And i am his nephew, gino. Oppcoll welcome back. I’ve got more live. Listen, love asia so well represented in john china sold. I’m sorry. Inchon, korea in john career where the airport is. Everybody knows that on john korea. Seoul, korea welcome. Manu haserot fu sh out. China, shanghai, china taipei, taiwan ni hao. Amy, did you know all these languages? I know i have been to korea, but i don’t remember much more than hello. Were you at the airport in inchon? No, you don’t know. You went to see flora. Different airport. I i flew into seoul and then hopped over. Teo, you know we’re other places. Okay, um, the these these little hooks you you have some ideas about matches the hook in as part of your your message plan might be that you have a campaign match which could be which could be motivating to people to give. I thought you meant matches like to ignite striking matches. That’s. Why? I could see the look on your face. Keep talking until you come back till it’s. In my reality, we need to show some reality. Um, yes, matches are a great way. As you know, in a fund-raising like retirement today campaign especially when you know that money is already guaranteed you don’t necessarily have to just recruit a matching sponsor, you could say, well, the sponsors giving us ten thousand dollars anyway, let’s give this sponsor more visibility, give them more value as a sponsor, but also leverage that to get more individual donations. So saying, you know, this sponsor is goingto give for every one of your dollars, and we want to get up to ten thousand just like, you know, they will match more to say, you know, every time you do this action, they will donate so that way you can, you know, maybe you don’t necessarily have a fundraising campaign that’s pure fund-raising but you want people thio maybe donate, you have this sponsor that’s going to donate the bulk of the funds, but you really want to get some behavior change in your community. So the diabetes hands foundation did a great campaign. We’re actually fall diabetes hands, foundation spend, you know, they’re they’re focused on people with diabetes and really making behavioral change so that they have healthier lives and and are healthier people. So they had a campaign where there was a matching sponsor. So they were going to donate every time people exercise for thirty minutes and then took did their test so that they were being able to see from their own results that when they took a test than exercise for thirty minutes and then took another test, how much better their results were blood a butcher on, and then you report that. So so go onto the website or goto instagram and share a photo of view exercising and to prove that exercising for thirty minutes doesn’t mean you drive all the way to the gym. You change your clothes, you know, you do the thing, whatever it could just mean taking your dog for a walk that’s twice as long as normal. So you actually get to thirty minutes instead of maybe, you know, ten or fifteen around the block and realizing you don’t have to go out of your way to be exercising every day and still see those positive results in yourself. So every time you posted that you did the testing and you exercise into the test again, then the sponsor was going to donate. So of course you have all these people that for one. Month no, every time i do this thing that i should do anywhere, you know, they’re going to donate money and then because you’ve done it for an entire month, and even if you only did it once a week, that was already for five times that you’ve taken this positive action and seeing how easy it is, and you’re that much more likely to continue that behavior outstanding. I love how it’s so closely tied to exactly what they’re what they’re mission exactly, exactly improvement of health, of people with diabetes. Exactly. So now, if we have these messages now, we need to identify who they’re going to go out, too and where where they’re gonna go out? What? Which way said you and i are always saying, you want to go to people where they are exactly, but it’s also not the same message, every single place i mean, we have all experienced those campaigns where an organization sends you an email and then post on facebook like the exact same two paragraphs that they just sent you in an email, and then you don’t hear from them for the entire month and they’re just waiting for the response to come in, so recognizing that you’re going to have some consistent messages throughout the campaign, like we talked about with the with the campaign communications calendar, but also that they’re going to be slightly different and nuance. So you may see on facebook people not really catching the campaign, not really engaging, and yet you see people on twitter going crazy and sharing that information, so you’re going to have to address the facebook community, maybe with less information about the campaign, maybe that community is just saying we’re not really interested, so don’t be posting every single day because otherwise they’re definitely going to tune out, whereas you could start engaging twitter more because people are really responding there. So it’s it’s also recognizing where to pull back and not just okay? Well, we’re going to send the ask everywhere another channel that you and i haven’t talked about it, we just have about a minute left, so is mobile. Yet for people who have given you permission to say little about mobile, all mobile is great for engaging people, especially in the middle of the campaign where you could send a text that says, hey reminder. Tomorrow is going to be the last day, so today, when you get home, you should donate or even include in the text the link so that they could go from there, you know, text message on their smartphone over to the to the web and donate their so long as you’ve actually optimized your website. So from a phone, the for the forum doesn’t look like this weird gobbledygook. Amy sample ward she’s, co author of social change. Anytime everywhere i’m very grateful that she’s, our regular social media contributor thank you. I really enjoyed having you on. Do you have so much banter with others? I want to believe that i give you the hardest time. Okay, well, i want then i in that case, i want you to continue believing that the book is social change. Anytime, everywhere get the book. We just talked about a small part of it. We talked about the fund-raising portion, but it’s all about engagement and increasing advocacy. Moving the needle on engagement get this book it’s ah it’s on you’ll find it on amazon social change any time everywhere amy’s blogger is amy sample ward, dot or ge? And on twitter she’s at amy, r s ward. Amy, thanks so much. Thank you, real pleasure every time next week fund-raising and finance friendship and your modern digital team. If you missed any part of today’s show, i charge you find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? Please show me the path. I’m very conflicted on this. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com, and by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits now with apple pay crowdster dot com, our creative producer is claire miree off. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and our music is by scott stein what a great team this is. Thank you, scotty. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of offline as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.