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Nonprofit Radio for November 17, 2017: Your Little Brand That Can & The Future Of Email

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My Guests:

Julia Reich & Stuart Pompel: Your Little Brand That Can

Control your brand. Respect your brand. Consistently message your brand. Recruit strong ambassadors for your brand. Julia Reich is from Stone Soup Creative and Stuart Pompel is with Pacific Crest Youth Arts Organization. (Originally aired June 10, 2016)

 

 

Sarah Driscoll: The Future Of Email

Email still rules and it will for a long time. Sarah Driscoll urges you to be multichannel, mobile and rapid responding. She’s from 270 Strategies. (Also from the June 10, 2016 show)

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with see alaska sis, if you made me stomach the idea that you missed today’s show your little brand that can control your brand respect your brand consistently message your brand recruits strong ambassadors for your brand julia rushes from stone soup, creative and stuart pompel is with pacific crest youth arts organization that originally aired june tenth, twenty sixteen and the future of email email still rules and it will for a long time. Sara driscoll urges you to be multi-channel mobile and rapid responding she’s from two seventy strategies and that’s, also from the june ten twenty sixteen show. I’m tony steak, too promote the rollover, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant and by wagner cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com you’re not a business you’re non-profit appaloosa accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com tell us they’re turning payment processing into passive revenue streams for non-profits tony dahna em a slash tony, tell us, here are julia rice and stuart pompel your little brand that can welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference we’re hosted by n ten the non-profit technology network. We’re in the san jose convention center san jose, california with me now is julia, right, and stuart pompel they’re topic is the little brand that could multi-channel approach for the small non-profit julia is branding consultant at stone super creative and stuart pompel is executive director, pacific crest youth arts organization julia stuart welcome. Thank you. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you both. Julia. Welcome back. Thank you. From lester’s ntc we are highlighting a swag item at each interview. And it’s, i think it’s only appropriate to start with. And ten non-profit technology network score and which i love the reverse side of as zeros and ones. You have your bits and bits and bytes. I believe that. Anyway. Zeros and ones swag item number one goes into the swag pile. There’s more to come. All right, julian stuart let’s. Talk about the little brandraise multi-channel approach. Small non-profit. Tell us about us. About the organization, please. Stuart okay. Pacific crest is a drum and bugle corps, and a drum and bugle corps is an elite marching band and it’s made up of students who audition it’s, a maxes out at one hundred fifty members. And this is a group that performs on field competitions and civic events. But primarily the unique aspect is a tour that our students go on for two months during the summer. Based where so we’re based in something california headquarters in the city of diamond bar. But we have kids from one hundred cities across the state, and we actually have some kids from other countries as well. My, my father was a percussion major, taut drum while taught elementary school music. But his major was percussion. And i, his son, was a failure of the drum. And then i must a clarinet. I tried violin. I practice. So you went from the easiest instrument to the most difficult. I yes. Yeah. My progress showed it. And i was just i was a bad student. I didn’t practice. If you only go to lesson once a week, you’re not gonna learn. I have to practice it’s. Very true. What is your background in? Music. So i was a musician growing up. I didn’t major in music in college, but one of the founders of pacific crest on when i first started, i was percussion instructor. But the group is made up of brass, percussion and dancers, and then a show is created very intricate blend of music and movement. And then we take that show on the road, as i said earlier. Oh, and the unique aspect of it is a two month tour where the kids leave the comfort of their homes and we travel by bus and stay at schools and performed four, five times a week. And just how old are the kids? Sixteen to twenty one. Okay, all right, julia let’s give you a shout. What is? Tell us about stone super creative. Well, i’m a branding consultant and i work mostly with non-profits and hyre ed and i help them to find and communicate their authentic brands to help them maximize mission impact. Okay, very concerned. We need to be multi-channel right? Because our constituents are in all different channels. And of course, we want to meet our constituents where they are, so we need to emphasized multi-channel. Ism is that true? Multi-channel is, um, yes, okay, it’s, like not discrimination, not, we’re not discriminating cross channels. How do we know where which channels we should be focused on? Because there are so many, how do we know where to be and where to place emphasis? Wow, it really depends on the organization. It depends on the organization’s audiences. I’m sorry, we’ll dazzle too broad. How do we know where our organization’s, how do we assess where our organization ought to be? I think that’s a better question for stewart to ask t answer in terms of his organization. Okay, all right, well, all right, where is where is? Where is pacific crest? So way have we have a number of channels, but the website obviously is the first communication place, but on social media, we’re where we limit ourselves to instagram, facebook and twitter and youtube as well we’ve not moved to any others and there’s some philosophical reasons, for example, snapchat is not one that we’re going to move towards of, but we know that the demographics of our organization are trending, you know, in terms of people who are fans and kids who are interested in being a part it’s going to be in that younger age group, and so we know that twitter is becoming more popular with that age group, and so we’re going to do a little bit more there to attract that age group. We also know that facebook is trending mohr a little bit older now, and so there are certain things that we do on facebook that we’re not going to do on twitter. Sorry or vice versa. That’s okay, wait, we have a small set here squeezed into ten by ten so don’t worry if you knock the night a night, not mike’s, okay? And so that’s, how we make some of our decisions, you know, we start with what’s out there a lot of times the kids bring it to us, we should have a snapchat, you know? Or we should have a facebook page, or we should have a facebook page for the trumpet section and a facebook page for them, you know? And so we have to, you know, we had to be mindful of which ones of the official ones which ones of the unofficial ones and how are we using social media to communicate? We may be using the facebook page to communicate to the outside world, but we also use social media to communicate within the organization because students, by and large, do not read email that’s for old people. I’ve been hearing that. Yeah, okay, okay. And so so were communicating to our members. Of course i’m going to send email to them in their parents, but we’re also going to follow-up with did you check your email on facebook? Okay, uh, now, i think it’s important people know that you do not have any full time employees. We do not pay anybody full time, so we have people who work. Ah, lot of ours. Yeah. Say that jokingly, but no, we do not have full time employees. Most of the money goes right back into the program. Okay, back-up what’s the philosophical objection, teo snapchat i think for us, the fact that a picture could be taken and or a comment could be made and then it khun disappear and the fact that it doesn’t necessarily disappear because it can be forwarded on, we lose control over it. And so for us, it’s, not something that we’re comfortable with right now. Snapchat is not a bad thing in and of itself, but when it comes to having kids in the group in the organization, we just felt that we’re not ready to do that at this point. Okay, it’s, time for a break, pursuing they’ll help you bring new donors to your work. They’ve got a new content paper on donor acquisition it’s the art and science of acquisition paper covers strategies that work from successful acquisition campaigns, and this is a campaign plus it’s got the numbers side pursuing you know them data driven as well as technology enabled, so data rise. What metrics should you be paying attention to? How do you know whether your campaign is succeeding? If you’re not looking at the right metrics, you’re not going to know and if you’re not succeeding, you need to pivot all the data that you need to be looking at. They’re going to cover that too. Um, it’s on the exclusive non-profit radio listener landing page that’s where you’ll find this content paper, it is the art and science of acquisition you’ll find it all at tony dahna slash pursuant and i am very grateful to them for their sponsorship. This show was back in june twenty sixteen when it first aired and pursue it was our sole sponsor. They’ve been with us that long. Check them out. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p now back to your little brand that can julia anything you want to add? Teo building a a fiercely loyal group of supporters. Well, i would just add to what stuart was saying in terms of controlling the brand, you know, that’s something that’s important to consider and something we talked about in our session as one of the differences between the for-profit sector and the nonprofit sector is that we want to take control of our brands so that, you know, we’re in control and people aren’t just making up our brand for us, but at the same time, you know, i think traditionally for-profit sorr yeah, the for-profit sector and, you know, they kind of tightly policed their brands or at least they have, i think that’s changing, but i think with non-profits it’s more there’s, more flexibility built into the brand. So, you know, snapchat i can understand, you know, that’s not gonna work, but it’s not it’s more about, like, guiding your brand across the channels and, you know, there’s more of ah, sense of collaboration, i think inflexibility with with guiding your brand across the channels, there’s more of an interaction with your audience rather than tightly policing it. Okay, yeah, on stuart, especially the age group that you’re dealing with, there has to be a degree of flexibility absolutely right. That’s why? When the kid comes to me with an idea than you know, that’s, we listen to those ideas because especially now they know how they want to communicate, and sometimes where we come in from the management side is that’s great information. Thank you so much, but you need to understand that there’s a larger picture here. So when a kid comes to me and says, i think we should have different facebook pages for different sections, you know, and we should have a brass facebook page and we should have ah, regular facebook page and a percussion facebook page. My question back to that student in this case, a nineteen year old kid just asked me that in who’s, a member of the corps for three years, i said, can you please explain to me in your mind what’s the marketing reason for that? What is the marketing benefit of having so many different channels that essentially say the same? And so then we get a conversation going to help the students understand that while he may be seeing a small piece of this there’s a larger piece to consider who becomes a teachable moment in that way, but it also then opens up the question of well, if you want to communicate that way within sections that’s a great idea, let’s. Go ahead and make those pages. Make sure that i’m an administrator on them so i can see what’s going on. And then that’s and that’s how we kind of grew the internal facebook and the i think it’s the official facebook okay, you knocking mike twice now? That’s enough! I’m going to stop using my there’s just we’re so excited. We’re just just stick yah late ing wildly teo convey their passionate we are. Thank you so much, stuart. Thanks. You also let’s say, julia that’s every file of something something stuart said, not little listening, listening he’s listening to the nineteen year old who want to do something that probably isn’t isn’t in the best interest of organisation, but there’s still a conversation about it listening and all your channels way amplify how that gets done effectively and really, you know, really? Exgagement well, i think it’s about knowing who your audience is, um, you know, you don’t want to just put your brand out tio every single channel in the hopes that it sticks somewhere. You know, i think, it’s what stewart saying is really important he’s listening to his audience, he knows exactly. Who is audience is on and he, you know, he’s he’s lucky in that sense, because it’s kind of a built in audience and he’s able to listen to them closely and know, you know, where they want to learn their information, where they want to get engaged, and i think, you know, ultimately all of this leads to trust and trust in the brand, you know, if they feel like they’re being listened to, they’re going to trust the brand, and once they trust the brand, they’re going to support the brand, become advocates, let’s spend a minute defining the brand way you mentioned a few times. I want people to recognize that it’s more than just logo and mission statement amplify that would you for us that the brand? Sure, well, you know, i present the definition of brandon my session, and it was, you know, generally accepted for for-profit sector definition, which is that it’s your reputation and you know it is your reputation, i agree with that, but it’s your reputation in order to gain a competitive advantage, so that doesn’t really work with non-profits it is about your reputation, it is about your sense of identity. But you’re not really looking for a competitive advantage, per se. I think what you’re trying to do is clarify what your values are, what your mission is in order you fit in the community, right? And then ultimately, i think, it’s about collaboration, you know, that’s where non-profits do the best work and make the most of their impact. Their mission impact is by collaborating, okay. How do you think about you’re the brand? Stuart, a cz you’re dealing with, a lot of young people are exclusively young people well know their parents also how do you how do you think through this that’s? A good question, because we’ve we’ve had to come to terms with that a number of times because especially with the youth group, the thing that you’re doing is not necessarily what you’re doing, okay? So this producing a show and going on the road and performing that is what we’re doing in terms of the actual product. I guess you could say that we’re creating the program we’re putting together for the kids, but when you’re dealing with students or young people in general, you have to go beyond that. You have to go beyond the we say, you got to go beyond the music, you’ve got to go beyond the choreography and the competition. There’s gotta be a larger reason there’s got to be a so what? To this whole thing and for us, it’s the unique aspect of leaving on tour for two months and something really transformative happens to a kid when he is forced to take responsibility. For himself or herself for sixty days of lock down? Yeah, and for us, it’s maturation, maturation requires coping skills, and as adults, we cope with challenges throughout the day wouldn’t even realize it anymore, but there is an issue in this country, and the issue is that students don’t have the coping skills that are past generation tad there’s a variety of reasons for that that i don’t want to get into, but we create that a pacific crest when you go on tour and you’re living on a bus and you’re driving through the night and not getting as much sleep is, maybe you want to and it’s still hot, but you still have to rehearse and we have a show tonight and people are depending on you. The coping skills get developed quite quickly and learning how to cope and learning how to deal with those challenges leads to maturity. Maturation is a forced condition isn’t come from an easy life, and how does your use of multi-channel strategies online contribute to this maturation process? Right? So they don’t necessarily contribute to the maturation process, but when we communicate what we do, it’s always about the life. Changing experience, even we’re recruiting. We’re recruiting kids and we’re saying we want you to do pacific crest or come check us out because this is going to change your life. It’s not about performing in front of the audience is they already know that’s what they do, they already know they’re going to get into that we want to explain to them and their parents. This is why you’re doing this. You could be in the claremont, you symphony you, khun b in your local high school marching band, you can play little league, you go to the beach, you can do any of these things. But if you want an experience where people are going to applaud for you and it’s going to change your life were the place to go. Julia, how do you translate what stuart is saying, too? Latto cem cem strategies for actually achieving this online in the in the network’s. Uh, well, you know, stuart and i met because we were working together. I was helping him with his rebranding a few years ago on dh as part of the process of re branding. You know, there were several questions that i posed. To him, gee, i don’t have those questions in front of me right now, but, you know, it was it was pretty much about, like, you know, who are you? What do you dio and most importantly, why do you do it on also, you know, what is it about what you’re doing is different than what other organizations are doing? What makes you unique, you know, and then ultimately that lead tio three different what i would call brand messages that pacific cross has been able to use in one form or another, you know, across their channels in their promotion of their brand, i don’t know, stuart, do you know the brand messages off the top of your head? And we could maybe give an example of how those have been used, okay, what are they? So the first one and these air paraphrased is to bring together a group of kids who are like minded and and want to be in a very high quality, superior quality performance group that pushes them right, okay, the second brand messages that were here to develop your performance skills, okay, which is an obvious one, but needs to be stated. And the third one is the life skills that i mentioned earlier, where we’re going to create an experience that changes your life because of the unique aspect of the tour. And so we hit those super hard in all the channels and all of our communications. So when you mentioned, how else does this manifest itself in communication, when we’re talking to people about donating to pacific crest? We’re not talking about donating so we could make beautiful music. We’re talking about donating so that they can change a kid’s life through music so that the drum corps becomes the way we change lives, not the thing we do in another cell vehicle, right method rights and it’s about consistency in promoting those brand messages in some form or another, you know, distilled down to their essence. And i think that that is really important when you’re talking about brands. But how do you achieve this? But this consistency multi-channel some channels, very brief messages. How do you how do you do this, julia? Well, we gave several examples of what you have to think about. Like you know what should be in your mind? Well, i think with every type of marketing communications thatyou dio you want to think back to what the brand represents, you know? So, you know, let’s say your values are, you know, integrity and education, you know, when your personality is fun, you know you can think about while is every message that i’m putting out there. Is it fun? Is it promoting this idea of integrity, of educating the child? You know, that’s, those are just examples, but i mean, you can kind of use those as benchmarks, it’s, almost like the brand is your like, your north star pointing the way i’m actually not very good that’s. Excellent metaphor, maybe seen analogy? No, i think. Okay, stuart, who at pacific crest is is producing our managing the channels? Is that all you? No, we have a social media manager. Okay? And what he does is he uses a nap location called duitz sweet to queue up her posts, but he’s also, we also use him as an internal manager. Two that doesn’t make sense. We use them to monitor what the students facebook pages because students might say all kinds of things about the organization and once in a while there might be something that gets said or posted that is not reflective of what we are, who we are, and then i can always count on brandon to send me an email saying, i saw this on the kids site and i’ll i’ll contact the kid and say, we need to have a conversation about this post and that’s, so so we kind of do it both ways. We manage it internally a cz well, as externally, i don’t know if that answers your question completely, but i’m i’m not in every box of the orc char, but when it comes to communication, i’ve got my finger on that pretty, pretty tightly. Julia dahna maybe how can i be a larger organization but not huge? But, you know, just a five person organization and how can they shouldn’t manage this the same way stewart is trying way stewart is doing, but on a you know, smaller scale organisation, how do you sort of manage the integrity and without it being controlling right? That’s a great question eso when i work with clients, i make sure that if we’re going to go into a branding process that there’s a branding team that really represents all levels of the organization and its not just the marketing people or it’s, not just the executive director. I think it needs to be the executive management team, but i also think it needs to be, you know, everybody, not every staff person, but just every level represented, you know, at the organization, you know, the admin person, maybe it’s a programme, people, i think it could even be bored members, beneficiaries of your services, you know, on some level, i think that they need to be involved in that branding process, and then what happens is that the end? You know, everybody has kind of bought into this idea they’ve contributed, they’ve been heard and they become your brand ambassadors. So you’ve got internally, you’ve got people who are being consistent and gauging in conversation in the same way externally, you know, it’s it’s kind of this marriage of internally, the brand identity is matching with the brand image externally, so it’s, you know, it’s, you are who you say you are, you’re walking the walk and people people get that yeah, i’d like to add to that because julia said something that i hadn’t really considered we were even talking in our session today. We have a very dis aggregate. I love that we have a recession idea for a new session. So we have ah, what i call a disaggregated staff of people. So, you know, we have a few full time or sorry for full time focused on admin like myself in our operations person and finance person book keeper, right? But we also have all the people who teach the kids and these folks have to be ambassadors for the brand as well. So when our program director hires a new person to be in charge of all the brass instructors are all the percussion instructors. And we have a team of forty people who work with these kids. So the person in charge of the brass section we call the caption head he and i are gonna have a conversation and we’re going to talk about what the goals are. Pacific crest. And the first thing that he’s going to realize is competition is not part of the goals because it’s not part of the brand. Okay, it’s, it’s. Definitely something we do. But when i talked to him or or her, anybody who’s going to be in charge of the staff? They need to understand what pacific crest is all about, what we’re trying to do and that, yes, i expect you to make helped develop the best brass program that we can have so that the kids have an amazing experience and we can represent ourselves, but there’s a larger reason for that cause i want these kids to learn howto work hard, i want them to learn the coping skills, to mature, to feel responsible for themselves and to each other, those air, the outcomes, you’re exactly not not a prize at the company, right? And then and and i and i have jokingly say that every single person on the staff is part of our retention team, you know, and part of our fund-raising team like as good a job as they do of instilling that brand all the way through the organization through the death of the organization is what helps tell her tell her story. More importantly, if i’m in charge of the brass program and now i’ve been told by the director that this is what we’re looking for now when i go find my trumpet instructor and my french horn instructor and my tuba instructor, i have to make sure that they also believe in that same philosophy. And so the nice part for me is once the caption had buy into it, then i’m pretty confident that the people they hyre are also going to buy into that, and so it flows all the way through the organization. Okay? Yeah, essentially grand ambassadors, yes. Julia and ambassadors, he’s recruiting brand ambassador, random brassieres duitz a new head of of the percussion section or the right. Yeah, because i mean, the way i used to do it is i would go and i would meet with, you know, the executive director or the marketing director or whatever your dork, right? Right? Right. And, you know, and then we would talk and, you know, then i would, you know, go back to my studio and, you know, work my magic behind the curtain and come back and present them with their brand. And guess what? That doesn’t work at all. No, you know, because that it’s you know, either like it or you don’t like it collaborative, right? You haven’t been part of the process. Right. So it’s, harder for you to become an ambassador for it to buy, to get that buy-in right, right? I mean, have the body. Yeah. Now, it’s just really about facilitation, making sure that everybody’s heard and, you know, getting everyone on board so that they can own the brand. When it’s, when we’ve come to the end of the process, okay, that seems like a cool place to wrap it up. Okay? I like the idea of the brand ambassadors. Thank you very much. All right. Julia. Right. Branding consultant with stone soup. Creative on stuart pompel executive director, pacific crest lugthart organization. Julian stuart. Thank you so much for sharing. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen non-profit technology conference? San jose, california. Thanks so much for being with us. The future of email coming up first. Wagner, cpas. They really do go way beyond the numbers for you. Way beyond being cpas. The guides, all these guides that they have there’s a couple of dozen of them on their resource page, each one specifically for non-profits ordered committee versus finance committee. Independent contractor. Versus employee checklist ali versus frazier disaster arika even find ali versus frazier disaster recovery plan church internal audit plan floor plan there’s no floor plan. All right, there’s, no floor plain, but there is a koa cost allocation plan. I’m not even sure what that one is. I went through it, but if you’re allocating costs, then it’ll make sense to you cost allocation plan, but they’re ah, bank statement, bank statement review form your viewing your bank statements all the time. Are you checking for the right things? Ah, wireless device policy. So they’re going way beyond the numbers. Very generous with all these free resource is just browse the list for god’s sake. It takes you a minute toe, look through and see what applies for you. Take a look at everything they have wagner cps dot com click resource is then guides at blow software i think you’ve heard me say this you’re non-profit but you’re using accounting software made for a business. I never thought of this. It was completely outside my ken then apples came along, wandered over, walked through the sponsorship door and i found enlightenment non-profits need accounting software that’s made for non-profits not quick books or terrible cash or microsoft or escape, those are built for corporations for businesses. Appaloosa counting is designed for non-profits built from the ground up for you, for non-profits to make your non-profit accounting easy and affordable. Non-profit wizard dot com now for tony steak too. My latest video it’s still out there, promote the ira rollover this’s a fantabulous gift for you for end of year only applies for those who are seven and a half and over. I explained that you know the details of the advantages last week for donors and for you just amplifying the benefit for you is this is a gift for you now today. So i considered a planned gift because it comes from someone’s ira, their retirement assets. But the cash comes to you today, not at the donor’s death, so that distinguishes it from most planned gift. Very easy to market. You could put a buckslip in the mailings you’re already doing, do a sidebar in an email blast. Maybe the email blast pertains. Teo your annual fund on dh yeah, your annual fund for the end of year appeal put a sidebar in promoting the ira. Charitable roll over, it’s. Really simple. The donors just go to their hyre a custodian and get a very simple form which is usually on the custodians website. They fill in your name, your legal, your legal man, your tax idea, your address boom and it’s yours. So, um, prote the ira roll over my video. Is that tony martignetti dot com? And that is tony. Take two. And here is sara driscoll with the future of email. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference. This is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose at the convention center. My guest now is sara driscoll. Sarah is the email director and vice president at two. Seventy strategies. We’re gonna get to sarah in a moment talking about the future of email for the next ten years. First, i have to do our swag item for this interview. And it is some locally sourced cooking. Nothin crackers from crowdster crowdster non-profit radio sponsor. Actually. So crowdster and local crackers. The crowdster cracker. Thank you very much. Crowdster way had these two the swag pile four today. Okay. Sara driscoll. The future of email for the next ten years, twenty sixteen to twenty twenty six you’re pretty confident. You know what this is going to look like? Absolutely. Absolutely. You’re not just pretty calm. You’re absolutely confident. No qualifications. Okay, um how do we know what? Well, how do you know what’s going on what’s gonna happen in ten years? Well, i should say i don’t know exactly what’s going to happen, but what we do know is that email isn’t going anywhere. So there’s all debate right now in the tech and non-profit space about, you know, is email still a resource that my organization should be investing in, you know who even check their email anymore? No one reads them everyone’s going way too much of it all the, you know, millennials are on snapchat and twitter what’s the point of, you know, really investing my email list anymore, and the truth is, email is still stronger than ever. I actually just came from another panel where email revenue was up twenty five percent in twenty fifteen the year before, so people are still reading their e mail. They’re still donating it’s still one of the most powerful ways to reach people online. We have to get smarter and more strategic about it. Okay, now maybe there is some age variability, so if your if your constituents he happens to be exclusively sixteen to twenty five year old, maybe email is not the best channel for you. Ah mei is still maybe a channel, but maybe that’s not what your priority should be. That’s ah, great point and something that where we’re definitely looking at in terms of you know, you not only want to just you don’t want to just rely on one tool for everyone multi-channel write. The most important thing is to look at who your supporters are, what your goals are and make sure you’re meeting your people where they are, um and so that’s kind of the biggest piece that we talked about yesterday. I had folks from the sierra club and act blue join me to talk about their current email, listen, what they’re seeing and the number one theme was yes email, still alive and well, but it’s no longer king the most important thing is to make sure you’re going not just with email, but really integrating it with all of your digital tools, so making sure supporters are seeing you, not just on email but also on social media on dh, just using email as one of the tools in your toolbox, not the only one and consistency across these messages, right? Absolutely we actually to seventy. Our digital ads team recently has been ah, playing around with testing facebook ads that correspond with email. So is someone who reads an email, maybe clicks away from it, then goes on facebook and season ad with the same ask, are they more likely to then go back and don’t have that email on dh it’s across the board? We’re definitely seeing lift there. So with so much of all human, so many touchpoint these days and people having such for attention spans, the more you can get in front of them, the more you can get into their brain, the more likely they are to take the actions that you want them tio okay, a lot of lessons came out of the obama campaign four years ago now, so center in a presidential cycle again want to refresh our recollection about how groundbreaking a lot of their work was? Absolutely, yeah, and that’s something that you know, we are three xero everything about this now is, you know, the obama campaign was four years ago, email is absolutely huge then is it as huge now as it was back then? And the answer is yes, you’re seeing it with hillary and bernie raising tons of tons of money on line, and and it was that same back in in twenty twelve, we raised more than half a billion dollars online over email alone, and i think to really key things came away with from that campaign one was that you should not be afraid of sending maury male ah lot of people, you know, probably complain, and when i tell them today that i was on the obama joined brovey multi and they say, oh, god, they were sending you yeah, yeah, and so they say so it was you who sent me all those e mails, but we tested it thoroughly and we saw no, really no effective sending more email, not everyone’s going to read every single one of your e mails that people who are really, really, really upset about it are might unsubscribes but they’re not the people who you want. To reach anyway, they’re not going to be your your top online advocates and supporters if they’re not willing. Tto gett une male and and you didn’t see large rates of unsubscribes onda well, especially in terms of the people who we want to hit those online donors people. We had one group of people that we segmented out and sent maury mail every single day, so we sent him one or two additional messages. So we’re talking now for five, six emails a day those people actually gave more than the other group because again, it’s about, you know, people have so much email in their in box that you want to just make sure you’re getting in front of them. A lot of people won’t even notice how maney you send, and you want to make sure that you’re hitting them with the message is that they’re going to respond, teo but i think more importantly, the reason why are our strategy of sending maury mail worked was because every single email felt really personal and really relevant. So, you know, all this is your other take away, yeah, yeah, yeah so we spent so much time crafting the messaging developing really, really unique center voices that the emails felt like they were coming from the president from the first lady from rufus gifford, the national finance director on dh that’s, the philosophy would take a two, seventy two is making every making email personal, so it doesn’t feel like more email or too much email if the email that you’re reading is really strategically targeted to you and feels really personal and timeline relevant what’s happening in the world, it doesn’t feel like, oh, they’re just sending me another email, it’s oh, they’re sending me an email right now because they need my help to achieve this, and if we if i don’t step up and help right now, there’s going were not i’m not gonna help solve this really urgent problem, and and one really clear indicator of that twenty twelve was when we sent the last email from the national finance director rufus gifford, and he said, you know, it was election day or the day before like, this is going to be the last time here for me on this campaign, you know, it’s been a wild ride sort of thing, twitter actually kind. Of exploded and people were legitimately sad to see rufus go there like we’re going to miss burnam is your proof is i’m gonna miss seeing you in my in box every day, and that was someone who had sent them hundreds of emails, so it just shows that if you take the time to craft really personal messaging that really treats your email subscribers as human beings, they’re most of them will respond really, positively. All right, you gotta tell me what it was like to be just part of the obama campaign and specifically in the in the email team when when you were breaking ground. Yeah, it was freaking like i’m a fourteen year old cause i’m so excited. What was that like? It was incredible is definitely one of the best experiences of my life. How do you get that job? Honestly, i i actually just a applied through ah, an online form. One of my friends sent me listserv inside the job posting was writers and editors for the obama campaign needed, and i were actually fording that to a friend and saying, holly can talk about dream job, i’ll never i’ll never get it. And i didn’t expect to hear back, but i did, and you know, the leadership there, it shows that they really were looking for people who are committed and also just great what they do. It wasn’t about who you knew. They were biggest one to find people from outside the normal realm of politics, and i was working in a really small non-profit at the time, and they saw me and they they liked my rank simple, and here i am today, that’s outstanding, so they didn’t they didn’t want that the established direct mail on email consultants for inside the beltway, they truly wanted really good writers and on dh that’s something that that i talk about all the time now my current job at two seventy, whenever i’m hiring, i always say i want great writers first, whether it’s for email, whether it’s for digital, anywhere because digital is all about storytelling and that’s how you move people to take action is by telling them a story that they were gonna feel andi want teo to respond to. And so it all comes back to the words, even in this tech age around a tech conference, but i’m still you know, the tools and tech is really important too, but it will only take you as far as the words that you write twice. Yesterday it came up in interviews that a logical appeal causes a conclusion, but an emotional appeal causes inaction on the action is volunteer. Sign forward, share give you know, whatever that is, but it’s the emotional appeal that it creates the action that we want absolutely people are goingto take the time out of their busy days. Toh ah, volunteer or, you know, give any their hard earned money unless they really feel and they really believe in it. Okay, all right. So let’s ah, all right, so let’s dive into this now a little more detail. The future um, mobile. Now we already know that email needs to be mobile response is is that i hope they’re way past that stage or people still not providing mobile response of emails right now. We actually said that on the panel yesterday when when we when i introduce the question the panel, it was, you know, whether or not my e mail needs to be mobile optimized shouldn’t be a question anymore. It’s more you know, how can i continue innovating and continue optimizing for mobile something like my julia rosen for mac blues on my panel said that somewhere around forty percent of all donations they processed this last year were from mobile, and they brought in. They just celebrated their billion dollar. So you think about, you know, how i consume email in digital content these days, it’s mostly it’s on the bus when i’m goingto work, you know, it’s when i’m on my couch, watching tv on and it’s almost exclusively on my phone. So it’s not just about making sure it looks pretty on a phone the most important piece now and where where i think especially non-profits can continue to push is making the entire user experience really optimized and really easy, so that goes to saved payment information platforms like act blue and quick donate making sure you’re capturing people’s information so they don’t have to pull out their credit card on the bus and type in their numbers if they’ve given before you should have it and they nowadays people can click, you know, with single click of the button and their donation goes through same thing with the advocacy messages and it’s things like making sure that your, you know, landing page load times are really fast on that they aren’t being slow down with too many forms or too many images. You want people able to hit your donate link on, get there immediately or whatever action you want them to take because you’re gonna lose people if they have to sit there on the, you know, again on the bus forever waiting for your page to load and it’s the more barriers that you can remove, the more likely people are going to follow through. Should we be thinking mobile first, designing the email for mobile first rather than as the as the add on? Absolutely. Jesse thomas, who is at crowd back, was also on our panel yesterday, and he said that he which i thought was brilliant, he now has his designers and developers do their previews on on a phone. So usually when you’re previewing a new website, you know it’s up on a big screen, but that no one is going to be looking at it on a big monitor. So he literally has the developers pull up a phone and say, you know, here’s where we’re at in staging so they can, you know, make edits and go from there. Okay, okay. Okay. Um, mobile acquisition. You have ideas about acquiring donors and or volunteers or whatever constituents, supporters? Absolutely eso from now until twenty twenty six? Yeah, i think it’s just going to get harder and harder. We’re noticing, you know, the quality of of names are going down more and more people want a piece of the pie and i think it’s so it shows just how strong a male is because people are still are trying to grow their less, which they should and the traditional platforms like care too and change it order still great. But again, with mohr and maura organizations rightfully looking to grow their list, we need to start figuring out how else we can get people in the door. So i don’t have the answer. I think this is one of these places that the industry really needs toe latto innovate in. I think that one area that non-profit especially can really ah, invest in maura’s peer-to-peer on dh that also there. People are constant asking me how do we get you gnome or more teens where millennials onboard and just going back to like we’re talking about the emotional appeal. People are much more likely to do something if, if asked, comes from their friend or family member esso, i think the more we can get people to reach out to their own networks and bring people onto email list into the these communities on their own, those people are going to be so much more high quality to than any donor that you, you know, that you buy or any listen let’s build that you do that way. So i’m just gonna ask, is the state of acquisitions still buying or sharing lists with maybe buying from a broker or we’re sharing? Or someone with a similarly situated organization means that still where we are? Yeah, it’s definitely still worth it to invest in list acquisition. I always say you have to spend money to make money, but it also goes backto, you know, quality over quantity. I would never recommend an organization going out just buying swaths of names just to say they have ah, big list. You only want a big leslie you can go to those people, when you need that truly yeah, yeah, i do think one area that the industry has grown a ton lately, and i just really going to continue to is in digital advertising, so in the past used to be that you would never you wouldn’t think that you could acquire donors, you know, through facebook ads or that sort of thing and that you don’t want to ask money over advertising. But in the last year, we’ve really seen that change, and people are really starting to respond more to direct ass over advertising and there’s so much more that we can do there, and in general, the non-profit industry really lags behind corporate marketers, so i think about, you know, my own online experience, and i’m constantly being followed around by that those boots that i wanted to buy, but i didn’t and things like that and the corporate spaces so good at really targeting people with exactly what they want the booty just glanced at exactly, but then they’re there and then suddenly they’re in my head and i’m like, oh, maybe i do want them, and more often than not, i buy them, which i shouldn’t but i think that’s where the organization’s really need to go is really highly targeted, highly personalised messaging that responds tio people’s previous actions are they bun hyre kayman on having been on your site for exactly, you know, the most simple exactly just let people tell you the messaging that they want to receive and the type of types of actions that they’re interested in and yes, you can, and that digital advertising is going is a huge, huge space for that. But, you know, not every non-profit has a butt huge budget, but you can still look at your own data and figure out okay, who are my people who seem to really like social actions or people who are on ly about advocacy petitions and target your messaging that way? Let your own data show you the types of emails you should be sent there. Okay, so you so you have a lot of the intelligence, you just have to mind it. Yeah, you have to know what to look for and you have to take the time which i know having worked a non-profits time is your biggest scarcity, so but it’s so worth it. Really, make sure you’re looking at your data and tailoring your messaging that way got to take a break keller’s credit card and payment processing. How about this passive residual revenue stream pays you each month? That’s what tello’s payment processing is offering when you refer businesses to them, the businesses that sign up will get discounts, and you will get fifty percent of every dollar that tell of urns from the businesses that you refer. And on top of that there’s the two hundred fifty dollars offer, which is on ly for non-profit radio listeners, you refer a business if tello’s decides that they can’t save them any money that this business has such a great credit card processing fee structure that they can’t save them any money, they will give you two hundred fifty dollars so it’s worth it for youto start making referrals to tell us and, you know, same businesses you’ve heard me mention, but i i’m going to drill this home because i need you to think about businesses that you can refer the ones owned by your board members, local merchants in your community, the maybe restaurants, car dealerships, storefronts of any type big. Small. Anybody who accepts credit card your family members do they have a business that accepts credit cards? You can save them money and you can earn half the revenue that tello’s urns from the businesses you refer that sign up with. Tell us. The only place to find this offer on the two hundred fifty dollars is the landing page. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s. Let’s. Get them some referrals. Now back to sara driscoll and the future of email. You have ah, advice around. Rapid response. Yeah, i love rap response so way. Talking about after a donation or, well, after some action has been taken by that we mean no wrappers. One’s mohr is just respond to something that happened out in the world. Ok, yeah. So event that’s. Topical? Absolutely. Yes. So on. And this is a struggle that we had in twenty twelve, and i think every ah lot my clients have in that every organization has is where you spend so much time cal injuring and planning and designing these amazing campaign’s a cz you should. And then, you know, something happens. And every single time i’ll tell people you want to respond to what’s actually happening in the world doesn’t matter how how much you love the campaign you had planned for may be this day people are going to respond much more to what they’re seeing and hearing and feeling rather than what you’re, you know that if your community trying to crack for them from you, so and i think there’s ways that organizations can set themselves up for success with rapid response so first is just having a process for it. So, you know, anyone who works in email knows that you can spend a lot, you get bogged down approvals processes and getting emails actually set up and out the door, make sure you have a plan for if something happens that you need to react, tio, that you’ll be able to turn something around quickly expedited approval, absolutely put out the layers that we don’t really need you to get this out within hours. Really, we’re talking about our absolute the quicker you want to be the first person in their in box and that’s, you know and and and also you don’t wantto on lee send the one email, though, and then walk away and say, we did our apparatus rapid response? We’re done, it’s, a big enough moment. Keep it going. You should, you know, make sure you’re following up with people who took the action with different actions to take and just keep the keep the drum beat up for as long as its people are paying attention to it. Okay, okay. Let’s see are their automated tools that we can weaken you can recommend around rapid response that that that help i would say automation is actually the is is great and i think is a huge space that non-profits and grown as well. So again, corporate marketing so much of what you see, those drip campaigns, the re targeting you get is automated esso they have a lot more time tio, you know, think of the next creative thing to dio rather than just manually setting up the next email to send you know, an hour after someone visit their website, but it’s, when you’re playing with automation, it’s really important to not just set it and forget it because of moments like rapper response. So if you have ah triggered welcome siri’s set out for new people who join your list, don’t just let it go for a year and not updated with what’s actually current and relevant, same thing if you if you know that you’re going to be having automated message and going out and then something happens, you want to make sure that you’re going back in and either revising or pausing it, especially if it’s unfortunately, we never want this, but if it’s a tragedy or something out in the world, you also really don’t want to seem tone deaf, so automation is great, but and we actually talked yesterday about, you know, if we’re all going to be replaced by robots, one day robots can do all of the automation take a lot of the work off your hands, but they don’t have the brains and the heart to think about. Okay, wait, what? What does a user really want to be hearing right now? Be sensitive, exactly sensitive to what people are feeling? Yep, reading okay, okay, fund-raising you have ideas around fund-raising lots of ideas about fund-raising i think about it way too much, i mean, this could bea, you know, you talk about fund-raising for hours, i think the interesting thing right now that people are seeing is we saw we saw this huge boost in email on online fund-raising, you know, around twenty twelve and with all of the ground that we broke their and things like quick donate all these new technologies appearing, making it easier for people to give online, so we saw a huge boost around then. And now i know so my clients and organizations i’ve been hearing around here are kind of seeing a plateau effect, so let’s say, you’ve done all the optimization sze yu have the tools, but and so you probably saw some huge a huge boost in your numbers, but now you know, what do you d’oh and so and with and it’s also like the cat’s out of the bag with the male fund-raising right, like people know that it works so now everyone’s doing it, and that gets back to the volume issue where how do you break through the noise? That’s? Why, i think it’s super important toe really? Look at first, we’ll continue toe investing your list, get those new people on board, but also look at the people that you currently have and make sure that you’re you’re targeting them effectively, so things like making sure that you’re sending the right ass amounts for people segmenting by previous action taker. So if someone’s dahna someone who is an offline volunteer could probably be a wonderful online fundraiser for you two and too often, organizations treat their people in silo, so they’re volunteers are out in one. Area and digital isn’t really touched them their direct mail people are in a whole other area than their online givers are also treated differently and it’s so important to look at each user individually as a whole person and making sure that you’re there recognizes that there recognized for their relationship with the organization surveys could help. Here is really simple where we had someone on the show yesterday talking about just like five or six questions surveys? How many times do you want me to do? Do you want to hear from us? What channel do you want to hear? When should we ask you for for your your gift? If they’re assuming they’re in annual about a sustainers but, you know, so simple, like survey and listen yep, yeah, and then adhere to what they ask absolutely so again because there’s so much volume the more personally khun make your messaging, the more like the people are to respond. Another thing i’d say is there’s also, people often ask what the magic number of fund-raising emails is a year, but i think it’s so much more important toe to make sure that you’re developing really creative and interesting and timely campaigns. So look at your entire year and you really do have to start a year back and figure out what’s, you know, if they’re big moments that you know of that you can create fund-raising campaigns around. So, you know, giving tuesday is a great example of it that’s when it’s really blown up in recent years because it’s such an organic fund-raising opportunity that people are listening to in paying attention and they want to be a part of, and now the challenge is figure out how to create those moments your own moments, right? Because so many people are now involved in giving tuesday it’s hard tto tto break through the noise. So look at your calendar. Figure out what your giving day could be. Where can you drum up noise around your organization? And the more that you can tie it to a specific date so you can then have a deadline and a goal and ramp up your volume towards it. The more likely people are toe to pay attention. Um, you know, it’s all about crafting that urgency in a really authentic way. Okay, we’ll leave it there. Sara driscoll. Okay. Great, thanks so much. You’re loaded with information could talk about enough for our how did you get this into ninety minutes are over long. Okay? Sara driscoll she’s, the email director and vice president at two seventy strategies and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur the non-profit technology conference. Thank you so much for being with us next week. There’s no live or podcast show happy turkey day affiliate’s you’re covered. We’re going to replay this week’s show for you. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant bye weinger cpas guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com by apple it’s accounting software designed for non-profits non-profit wizard dot com and by tello’s credit card and payment processors. Passive revenue streams for non-profits tony dahna may slash tony tell us ah, creative producers claire miree sam liebowitz is the line producer. The show’s social media is by susan chavez and are very cool music is by scots diner brooklyn. Thank you for that information, scotty with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and, uh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

16NTC Videos: Fundraising

Fundraising video interviews for Nonprofit Radio from the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference (#16NTC), to help your charity raise more money for its social change work. The annual conference is hosted by NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network. 

Nonprofit Radio for August 5, 2016: Multichannel Fundraising Survey & Smart Email Marketing

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Peter Panepento: Multichannel Fundraising Survey

Which channels are earning nonprofits the best returns on their fundraising dollars and where will investment expand in 2017? Consultant Peter Panepento authored The Chronicle of Philanthropy’s report, “Fundraising In A Multichannel World.”

 

 

Tiffany Neill & Ann Crowley: Smart Email Marketing

Tiffany Neill & Ann Crowley at 16NTC

It’s one of the successful channels and it takes more than good copy. Our panel from the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference takes on the full process of a successful email campaign. They are Tiffany Neill, partner at Lautman Maska Neill & Company, and Ann Crowley, vice president of membership and online strategy for Human Rights Campaign.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have a listener of the week pulawski joshy. She messaged me that non-profit radio was one of her first shows when she started working in the sector and she loves my solitude video more about that in tony’s, take two so pulawski thank you, olivia joshy, thank you for being with us and congratulations on being our listener of the week. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I get hit with a bad case of mathos thomas iesus if i merely smelled the fishy idea that you missed today’s show multi-channel fund-raising survey, which channels are earning non-profits the best returns on their fund-raising dollars and where we’ll investment expand in twenty seventeen. Consultant peter panepento authored the chronicle of philanthropy is report fund-raising in a multi channel world and smart email marketing it’s one of the successful channels and it takes more than good copy. Our panel from the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference takes on the full process of a successful email campaign. They are tiffany neil, partner at lautman, maska, neil and company, and and crowley, vice president of membership in online strategy for human rights campaign between the guests on tony’s take two solitude and major announcements that i should’ve made last week. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling not your seventh grade spelling bees for charities, we be spelling dot com glad to welcome back peter panepento he’s, a freelance writer and principle for panepento strategies, a communications consultancy working with non-profits foundations and companies that serve the sector. He’s, a former managing former assistant managing editor with the chronicle of philanthropy, you’ll find him at panepento dot com and at p panepento peter panepento welcome back. Great to talk to you, tony. And glad teo. Glad to be back on the show. A pleasure. Pleasure. I love your name. Because it’s so musical and a literate ivo i just love it. Peter panepento i like saying very, very fortunate with monica. I didn’t like it growing up, but i love it. Oh, yeah. Now the obliteration. Of course. I love liberations. But you know it’s, just it’s. Very musical. I love it. And ah, little italian pun, eh? Bread pento is repent. So did you know you have? Surely i’m sure that you’ve surely you’ve translated your name before having you. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So repentant bread. I don’t know. Have you sinned? And you’re baking bread in independence or what? I don’t know what that means. But i think that for another podcast completely, i think so. You don’t talk about well, okay, then. That was in that. In that case, we talk about this for twenty minutes, then on multi-channel fund-raising gets about three. Okay. Um, you know, i love move your name. Okay. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. You know, i mean, it’s always great when we get martignetti together. It’s a great combination of names that’s true and don’t i love the way you pronounce martignetti thank you. Thank you. Um, so, multi-channel fund-raising this, uh, this report based on a survey tell us about this. Yeah. So i started working with the chronicle late last year to take a real close. Look at how non-profits and specifically fund-raising departments are making, uh, making sense and investing in the explosion and the number of channels that they have at their disposal for fund-raising aziz. You know, and i’m sure a lot of listeners know we’ve we’ve really seen ah, really expansion of a number of options that fund-raising shops have to talk, teo acquire and solicit donors, you know, from everything from email, social media, online’s mobile. I’m all of these new channels are giving folks a lot of options, and there were also rendering a lot of other channels are absolute, so we wait really set out to try tio talked to non-profits and survey them and find out how they’re shifting their reese is and which which of these channels are more most successful to them? And what we did was we ended up working with a survey firm, campbell rinker, out of california, and we got responses from nearly five hundred non-profits of all sizes. Hoo hoo provided some really interesting insights on how these spring and what they might be in the fundraisers. Did you do cement? Irv uses part of this too? Yes, once we got the results back, i i reached out and spoke teo quite a few fundraisers across the country, from both local small organizations to some really big national charities to okay, cool now, um the headline is that the the old school one toe, one solicitation, my voice just cracked like i’m fourteen again hyre is ruling in in terms of effectiveness, yes, and i would imagine it doesn’t surprise a lot of folks to know that even with all of these different channels that we have that the most effective and the most popular form of fund-raising still is the one on one half, and when we we spoke to fundraisers about you know which channels they used the most and which ones were most effective, we found that personal solicitations were not only the most still the most popular and more than nine out of ten charity say that personal solicitations are are a part of their fund-raising mix now, but that also that they are still the most effective in terms of r a y and in fact, seven out of ten organizations in the survey said they’re becoming more effective than in the past. So with all of these different channels that we have to communicate with each other now, and maybe even because of that, all of these channels exists. Um, one on one the you know, the art. Of a person asking another person directly that they, you know, presumably built a relationship with remains the most effective form of fund-raising now, this does this include online one toe, one like i’m we’re doing a, you know, a peer-to-peer campaign does that does that include this? Or is this familiar? Peer-to-peer separately and okay here was actually did very well as well. In fact, half of the organizations in the survey said that peer-to-peer fund-raising is becoming a more effective form of fund-raising for them than it has been in the past, you know, it it doesn’t quite have the same level of popularity that personal solicitations do, but you know, those peer-to-peer campaigns and and, you know, the act of having, you know, one donor askanase other donor for for support for their favorite charity is is has been and is continuing to be very effective, okay? All right, i got you. All right. So the so the personal solicitation we’re talking about is the old school calling on the phone or meeting and and making an ask right that we’re talking about personal, so okay, okay, alright. Cool. That’s the headline, but there’s a lot more. To cover s o, peter and i were gonna go out for a break. When we come back, we’ll cover all the rest of this multi-channel fund-raising survey. Stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love right this minute, and there are a lot from texas, so i wanted very much thank j c and joan, the hosts of the previous show. Twenty first century entrepreneur forgiving non-profit radio, a shout out that was very gracious of them and it looks like a lot of their texas listeners hung in there. Houston, austin, sugarland live listener loved to you, let’s. Bring it right here to new york, new york, new york, bronx, new york, queens, new york live listener love to all five boroughs, even though staten island and and who’s, who we missing staten island in brooklyn, are not not with us this minute. They certainly have been in the past. So extend the live love even to the to borrow is not represented and focus on the three that are bronx, manhattan and queens gillette newjersey live listener loved to new jersey that’s ah that’s fairly new i think charlotte, north carolina love north carolina live listen loved head they headed there and lincoln tonight oh, lincoln’s in north carolina also. Thank you. Cool love. North carolina, you know, i’m on emerald isle ah, three weeks out of each month, let’s, go let’s, go abroad. Mexico, mexico, monterrey, mexico live listener loved to you. That would be a good afternoon. So we would say, argast artis, when a star dies precisely romania, iran, cambodia live. Listen, her love to you, love, ah, cambodia, don’t think we’ve seen you before in southeast of asia. Welcome on biron and romania. Also korea, you know, always so, so gracious, south korea, always with us on your haserot comes a ham nida and china always always at least one from japan, although i mean china, although we’ve got multiple today, ni hao and multiple from japan as well, so grateful for that live listen love to japan, konnichi wa. Peter panepento we’re going to get to the rest, i mean, don’t forget the affiliate affections and podcast pleasantries, of course, but peter panepento is waiting patiently, their hearing, breathing heavily science coming durney live listeners does this clown has give it a rest already in romania, they know you were a man of so many languages well, so many listeners, yes, only a few languages, but but there’s, this this show cut across states, counties, continents, we’re everywhere. All right, um, okay, anything else you want to say about the personal solicitation being the most way we covered that you think, well, i think i think one one point i thought of during the break there was that, you know, as i spoke to some fundraisers about this, i think one of the takeaways on this is just the fact that with people being so tied to their, you know, mobile devices and so connected online that they actually really appreciate the personal connection mohr when they can get it, and that is actually, you know, working in the favor of organizations who are investing in, uh, more on the ground face-to-face fund-raising there, you know, donors really appreciate that x for personal touch probably now more than ever before, and that applies also to millennials. I’m finding that, um, the misconception there is a misconception that millennials don’t want to meet anybody, they just want to do all their giving and shopping online and, you know, they love events they love coming out now, i’m not sure about the personal solicitation meeting, i’m not i’m not going quite that far, but in terms of gathering’s face-to-face meetings, events, you know, as long as the thing is fun, they love getting out absolutely and a big thing for millennials to is authenticity and there’s nothing more authentic than you know, shaking somebody’s, hand and looking him in the eye and talking teo and that’s that’s a really i value that the millennial generation is bringing to the table on dh articulating quite a bed. And i think as that generation matures and they actually become more likely to be ableto give it higher levels, i think those personal solicitations air going toe going to continue to be really important for those dahna relationships i get so many invitations for just usually une male coffee or lunch coffee line you know from people from millennials twenty thirties on, and i’m happy to do it, you know? I mean, if they want to sit with fifty four year old that’s their life, you know? So what am i going? No, but there’s a misconception that we need to beat that down. And the last thing about personal solicitation, i see you have this outstanding graphic about future investment. And ninety nine percent of charities that answered are goingto either spend the same or invest more in personal solicitations next year. That’s absolutely right. And, you know, that is really on an important stand, i think. It’s it’s, um, almost, you know, almost surprising just how overwhelming that is and help those two thirds of them are actually planning to increase their investment. And in personal solicitations, nominally, they’re investing in that they’re going to be increasing their investment in it, which is which is really powerful. Yeah. Agree. All right. Excellent. Um, direct mail doing very well. Yes. Direct mail. One of the really interesting things that came out of this survey. Wass the shift in attitude toward direct mail. I remember. And we had some discussions about this. A few. Years ago to tonia, i remember that, you know, direct mail is is, you know, in danger getting phased out of some organization. Were you really wondering whether or not they should just kill the of the the direct mail letter in investing all digital? And what we’re finding is that direct mail is not only remaining the third most popular channels for multi for multi-channel investment, but that it’s also ah channel, in which organizations are starting to step up their investment again after years of scaling back in it. Um, we found that almost a third of organizations that they’re planning to invest more resource is and direct mail over the next year by-laws than they have in the previous year and and that’s actually at a faster rate than things like email in social media in terms of increased investment over the next year. Yeah, you have a quote in the in the study that its still a world where people were thinking print first and digital second in planning campaigns. Yeah, i mean, even with all of the increased investment that we found in digital channels, latto you know, direct mail remains really, really popular and builders still respond to what a particularly the more mature donors, too, you know, are used to giving that way and remain a very important audience for non-profits so important to recognize our our top two channels, our traditional what might have been called dinosaurs, you know, years ago as social media emerged, but they’re not dinosaurs, they’re not. If they’re dinosaurs are not extinct yet because they’re talking about we’re talking about face-to-face and direct mail? Absolutely. And and and not only are they not going extinct, they’re they’re making a bit of a comeback. So what does that make them? Uh, i don’t know what we have. Ah, was i mean, i know that maybe they were the share of ah share. Tio that’s. Very good. I just picked up one of her dvds a couple months ago with this she’s got his flamboyant pink outfit and the cover the dvd is, is it called a hologram? Or you you turn it, you know, you you turn in the light and you get different images of her. I think i picked up for a light. Well, sorry share. I picked it up for like, a book, but i had to i had to just have it for the cover. I loved it. I loved. Um okay, so maybe the share. Yeah. Um all right, so don’t abandon traditional methods. Ok? So let’s move into the more current and social media also strong also strong. Not always this strong, but organizations are really continuing. Teo double down on their investment in social media. Um, we sell that sixty percent of organizations over the last two years have put more resources into social media, and they’re reporting that they’re planning to continue to to to invest more in it. More than half of the groups in the survey said they plan to invest maurin social media over the next year. And this really comes despite the fact that for a lot of organizations, they’re they’re having a hard time really articulating what the return on that investment is. Yes. So they’re not necessarily seeing direct dollars coming in the door through social media. But they are still thing enough value and where they want to continue to invest more in it as a as a donor acquisition tool and dahna communication stole. I see ninety seven percent are going to spend the same or mohr you said, as you said, over half spending mohr and, like forty four percent spending the same why why is it still getting increased investment? Um and so much attention so much the share of resources if we are having so much trouble identifying r a y well, it’s interesting, i spoke to a number of organizations, including some really sophisticated groups like make a wish and and the less association who say that even if they can’t put a direct dollar figure on what’s coming in, they’re they’re noting that social media is a great channel of bringing new people on their websites and getting them to sign up for e mails and other things like that. So that’s one thing and other is that it’s becoming increasingly necessary for organizations, particularly on facebook, to get noticed, you actually have to invest in promoting their posts and, you know, actually, you know e-giving facebook and lincoln and twitter um essentially at you no at investment, tio have their post get noticed by doing that, not only are they getting more clicks and like, they’re also getting some better, some better metrics back from those platforms, in terms of how people are engaging with their posts to sow some of that, i think is out of necessity, you know, you can’t keep the same level of investment and get the same results on facebook if your charity anymore. So, you know, some groups are putting ad money against it, where in the past they weren’t doing that right? I hear a lot of frustration about facebook because the organic reaches so small now and so much smaller than it used to be, and and you do have to put ad money against it if if you want to keep that reach high. Yeah, it’s purely i hear a lot of frustration, okay? And another part of your message is that there are other ways of measuring success besides strict return on investment. So if you’re getting more people signing up your email list, if that’s an action that you’re asking for, you’re seeing more unique visitors to your sight may be to the donation page on your site, even if they’re not translating to donations there are there are other methods of measuring return on social media other than strict dollars absolutely, and that’s i think the really interesting point that and and way of expressing it, tony, is that, um, you know, it may not lead to a direct donation, but those those folks that you’re engaging with on social networks are, you know, that that might be their first weigh in the organisation for them to be communicating with you in other ways, and you may actually be getting success through some of the other fund-raising channels as a result of you making that initial contact with a potential donor on a social network. You have you have a graphic in the survey that that covers the different methods of measuring success besides the ones we’ve talked about growth over previous efforts, long term donorsearch al you net yield per donor. So those are some other method, good, right? Right? And, you know, in on top of things, just like revenue raised and donors acquired, which are, um, kind of the obvious wants some of these other ones are metrics that organizations are starting to use mohr regularly to try tio to figure out how these different channels are performing and how they can make better decisions about where to invest later, yeah. You know, it’s, just yeah, you have to be able to say more than, you know, you just got to be there, but i mean, intuitively you do because there are just so many billions of people on facebook on four billion or five billion or something twitter, i think is over a billion users, um, you gotta be able to say more than that, it’s just it’s a lot of people, and so i like that the survey got moves like seven different six different methods of measuring return, not just yet. I think that, you know, what we’re starting to see is that organizations are becoming more sophisticated and how they’re measuring how they’re measuring these different things, and they’re putting mohr effort into actually trying tio better understand, you know, dahna behavior and their own in their own efforts at acquiring and, you know, building relationships with donors, how would you characterize non-profits as a group, we’re generalizing in terms of technology, adoption, do you feel like they’re slow to adopt? They wait for the corporate side to do it? Or do you feel like they jump in a little quicker, but not fully understanding and maybe that’s ah, maybe that’s to their detriment. That’s an interesting question, and i think, you know, if if you when you asked that question five or ten years ago, i think the consensus in the non-profit community was that, you know, that we were slow to adopt and that we were really reticent to to invest in new things and trying new things with technology, i think that’s starting to shift, i don’t necessarily think that we’re, you know, as a zone industry, we’re going to be rivaling silicon valley in front of of our willingness. Tio tio, jump in feet first, things that we don’t really know online, but, you know, there’s been enough success out there, and there have been enough for thinking organizations that have in front runners on some of these technologies that that it’s, you know, that the case can be more easily made toe boards and too, and the top leadership in organizations that it’s worth experimenting a little bit with new things and trying them out, but seeing where they go and you know, the digital capacity is still probably not where it needs to be with a lot of organizations but it’s a lot deeper now than it was even a few years ago. Andi, you only have to look at things like the growth of of interest in the non-profit technology conference every year and just the amount of social media and online activity that’s happening across the sector now. Let’s, talk about mobile, you call mobile a conundrum. Yes, um, and this was an area where a number of groups actually dove in and tried to invest in mobile and text to give early on and found out that they weren’t really getting the results they wanted to. So they’re starting to scale back a little bit in in their investment and mobile. Now. So, you know, of the groups that are actually using mobile, only forty percent say that their efforts were more effective in the past year than they were yeah, in the past year than they were the previous year they’re started there’s a really, um, there’s a real struggle out there for organizations to really figure out how to best use mobile other than using it as a you know, kind of, i know of ah, you know, a modified way of looking at their websites. There, there aren’t a whole lot of really successful mobile e-giving campaigns that that organizations air finding to be useful, important to point out that only thirteen percent of the respondents are actually using mobile and of those of those platform, you know, you know, in talking to organizations for the reporting on this, we’re finding that groups are finding some pretty creative ways to use mobile, even if they’re not using it as a standalone channel. Um, i spoke tio, the top fundraiser at the quietness institute in rochester, new york, which is a which is a private high school there, and they have actually done away with their traditional phone, a phones where a woman i would gather and do a night of calling teo their classmates and i have kind of replaced it with almost like a texting and facebook base kind of outreach for using the same idea everybody gets together with their mobile phones that starts texting classmates that they knew and hitting those short donations or or messaging them through facebook on their mobile phones. Hill yes, she didn’t count that as mobile fund-raising but it’s still using mobile devices for for, you know in-kind of using the unique powers of mobile devices fund-raising and hybrid ing that with the peer-to-peer za peer-to-peer ask itjust happened, happens by text exactly exactly so in some cases, we’re seeing these channels, you know, maybe falling in one bucket, but but they actually utilize technology that might be included in another bucket of in terms of how they’re measured. Peter, we have just a little less than a minute left, and i want to wrap up with the management of all these multi-channel methods is now multi department that’s, right? That’s one of the other interesting storylines coming from the surveys we asked, you know which department is in charge of all of these different all of these different channels? And in which cases is that more than one? And you know, by and large, you know, the development shop is still very engaged with with all of these different channels, but, you know, depending on the channel, usually between a quarter to assist of them are being managed by multiple departments means that there’s some, you know, they’re both being held accountable for the results of of those campaigns and it’s becoming a much more collaborative. Environment now where the development of the development department really needs to be working a lot more closely with you, with communications, with marketing, with technology to make sure they’re being success. Peter panepento follow this guy on twitter for pizza because you’re gonna learn a lot at at p panepento and he’s at panepento. Dot com peter, thank you so much. Thank you. And the surveys also free and for download that philanthropy dot com slash multi-channel fund-raising for anybody who wants to check it out in more detail philanthropy dot com slash multi-channel fund-raising cool. Thank you again. Thanks a lot, tony. Smart email marketing is coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got free research for you. Also another free research report. It’s their report optimize your donor pipeline. You need to raise more money. You need a fat pipeline of pipeline that’s a pipeline of potential donors coming in that’s a piece today. This report is going to help you do that. It’s going, build, retain optimize your daughter pipeline it’s free optimize your donor pipeline it’s at pursuing dot com and then click resource is we’ll be spelling again. You need to raise more money host we’d be spelling spelling bee. This is not your mother’s spelling bee this’s, not even your seventh grade spelling bee. 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I disassociated the podcast pleasantries from the live listener love and that’s okay to do. I think they can stand independent of each other, but the pleasantries go out to the people listening in the time shift, whatever you’re doing, whatever device, whatever time you are listening pleasantries to you are over ten thousand and the affiliate affections they could stand with the podcast pleasantries or the live listen love, or they could stand alone because the affections air strong, they could stand independent if they needed to, and maybe they will. But for now, they’re associated with the podcast pleasantries because i am sending affections to our am and fm affiliate stations and listeners throughout the country. So glad that you’re with me on the traditional the old but still critical, just like the face-to-face solicitations system solicitations, the am and fm media still important affections to those listeners. Here is my interview on smart email marketing, a very important channel from the non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference at the convention center in san jose, california second session of the of the conference and i’m with tiffany, neil, and and crowley tiffany city closest to me is a partner at lautman, maska, neil and company and and crowley is vice president of membership and online strategy for human rights campaign. Ladies welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Your session topic is what you mean. There’s more to email, more to mail than just writing copy for a fund-raising email so we’re gonna go way beyond just good copy out let’s see, tiffany, what you believe is the dahna shortcoming that a lot of non-profit or shortcomings latto non-profits have around email marketing. I think a lot of organizations spent a lot of time thinking about that first message that people are going to receive, and they don’t take a lot of time thinking about the total experience that that person is going to have once they choose to engage with that email so they don’t think about it in terms of the supporter, the donor who’s receiving that message, they just say, i am sending this wonderful email and they will just do exactly what i want there’s a whole process, there’s a whole process begins within gay exactly through your well written email. Exactly talk a little about subject line, etcetera, but yeah, we want the whole lot the whole process. Exactly. I mean, i can ignore every email in my inbox if i want to that’s my prerogative, and i think a lot of times non-profits just assumed because human rights campaign, which is a wonderful organization, is sending a message that everyone’s going to open it and respond. And did you feel that you needed some help around your email channel? I think we’ve been very fortunate in our ability, tio send out e mails and get people to respond, but that’s, mostly because our issue has really been on the front lines of of the, you know, what’s happening in the last few years, but i do believe it is getting harder to get folks to open our emails and engage once we’ve gotten past marriage equality, the response rates were starting to see a slight decline, okay? And you do have i mean, it seems like human rights campaign would have headlines nearly every day, if not way have refugee crises around the world, and i’m just scratching the surface you work there, but now there’s a lot to talk about. Yes. Although hrc only works on lgbt issues in the u s o okay, all right, so then refugee crisis worldwide is appropriately okay, very good. Still all right? So after marriage equality, okay, so then you didn’t have so many headlines drop correct? Yeah, just got a little bit more of a challenge, although right now we’re experienced experiencing a lot of states, trying to revoke a lot of the rights that have been voted in so it’s, still very pertinent and happening and that’s, our job is to get people toe, stay with us and engage in the same level that they had been. Okay, let’s, stay with you. And i’m sure we first approach are thinking about une mail campaign that were you want? Yeah, i mean, i think it depends, is it is it fund-raising or is it sit advocacy? And if it’s advocacy is that because something is currently going on right now that you need to engage your list in? And if the answer to the advocacy question is yes, then we always ask ourselves, what is the theory of change if we send out this e mail and we ask arlis to do something? What is going to come out of their action? So for instance, we are in the middle of trying to get congress, in particular the judiciary committee, to hold a hearing for the vacancy of the supreme court, and we’ve been asking our list too directly email mitch mcconnell and hold a hearing so there’s a clear theory of change there. So if it’s fund-raising and you guys, you know, organizations feel like they need to send out e mails to raise money is which we all do then really think about what the messages and his tiffany alluded to earlier, not only what the message is initially, but what the visuals are, what comes after they send in money? Is there a proper thank you, there’s? Just various steps to the process. Okay, again, a long process, but sounds like starting with what is your goal exactly? Call ultimately there’s some call to action that’s, right? Is it? Fund-raising isn’t volunteering write a letter. Writing is calling. Raise it. Signing a petition? Yeah. Calling the governor. Yeah, that that’s exactly right. I mean, we really stop and think about every situation and if something is needed and we feel like we can make a difference in particular in a state, for instance, then then we’re going to do it. Okay, okay. All right. So, tiffany, after we’ve got our goal set, where do we go? Where we go from there? Well, i think where i mean, really where it starts from us. Who is that message going to be from? And i think that that sender is something that, especially with hrc, we spend a lot of time thinking about in testing different senders to make sure that when someone’s looking at a bunch of emails in their inbox, they want to open this it’s it’s from somebody that they feel has something to tell them that they need to respond to sew that it’s that’s the first part is to figure out who’s this message going to be from okay, who it’s from and i guess maybe this is subsumed in what you were saying and but who’s it going to? Yeah, we’re subset of our constituency is going to get get this. All right? We’ve got we’ve got our center. We’ve we’ve tested and testing of course, important throughout this process. How does that work if you’re trying to listeners tryingto inaugurate a campaign. How do you test them and kick off at the same time? Well, it’s, i mean, these work together it’s great with a sender. Because we can send ten percent of the message out and send half of that ten percent one centre and half of that ten percent another center in whichever sender gets more opens. Then we send that out to the rest of the constituencies. So those kind of things we contest really in real time so that we know we can get the immediate response subject line forward, subject lying falls in that for the preview text. The thing that people see in their inbox before they actually opened the message. Those first few words, all of those things we test on the outbound message, especially with things that are time sensitive. We want to get those test results back quickly so that we can implement it. And if people need to act quickly, we get we get to them right away. We spent a minute on something that’s. A little bit of a peeve. Which is seeing in that preview to view this message better, right? If it’s not rendering right in your mobile version. Click here. Right? Is that a terrible waste of landscape? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I know what it’s called. What? The preview pain. Okay, and actually we in our presentation today, we actually touch on that because i don’t think it’s one of those things that organizations are moving so quickly, maybe they haven’t thought about that the experience, but for us, hrc our list is younger than a lot of other organizations and therefore there’s ah hyre usage of their mobile when they’re reading our emails. So we do everything mobile optimized, figuring that our folks are reading it on the phone. They’re moving quickly. We’re going to say it in the preview text what we want them to do or what the issue is, and at that point, they’re going to decide to open it and go take the next step or not, when you have your session, would you please tell the audience that this ticks me off? Well known, everyone will say, tony is very annoyed by that. Come back with one thirty four and render your your support for a proper preview checks but it’s one of the things that hrc does well is there’s an army of testers, and every tester has a different mobile device. So what may work on apple may not work on android, so, tony, if you have a different phone, yours may break up in someone else’s won’t. So we do all of that testing before the message ever goes out to consider, you know, even at work, someone was workout of outlook and some of us work out of google and things were under differently and while maybe annoying, i’m always the outlook girl, so i’m always like, it looks funny on that look and, you know, so for the seven other outlook, users were going toe we’re going to see it, right? Okay. All right. What? What else? So let’s, stay with this a couple seconds. What else can we easily test? Got sender subject line preview text? What else? Simple detect. The other thing that we test is in the call to action the words that appear on the button. We’re asking people to do something and really wants to test. Click here. We’re calling it the nineteen nineties tests, but we’ve found that saying, tony, you know, act now versus just act now versus, you know, change, change this do their job. And then i see more organizations using chip in exact and contribute exactly, and those air easy things, the test and you can test it on small number and then see how many people take the action that you intended them to and then roll that out said earlier, we’re testing to maybe just ten percent of the way debate test quantities frequently, but yes, i mean, in general it’s, about ten percent of the total, okay, seems like a good relationship. You’re going back and forth? Yeah, frequently on. Okay. Absolutely. Yes. Next to each other. It’s civil. Yeah. No, no, no. Tiffany and her team at law men are terrific. And we really view them as extensions of the human rights campaign staff well and to the point about subject lines and is frequently a sender of the hrc emails. And one saturday, there was an e mail from an and it was an official hrc email. But the subject line was i know it’s saturday, but and we all open it very quickly because we assumed it was work related and something? Yeah, it worked. It worked. It really was an accident. You know, it was everyone just forgot that that was going out that day at ten a m on saturday and that that was the subject line. All right, the best stuff comes from improvisation, it’s straight, solid improvisation. All right, so we’ve done some simple testing and what’s our next what’s our next step in this campaign? Well, i’m a big believer in the visuals, so if you can have a picture in the call out box, i’m also big believer, frankly, in the call out box, i feel like the call out box is the next step. After the preview text, you get somebody to open it because the preview texas either intriguing enough or important enough, it feels to me that most people then go to the call out box, and so if you’re looking at the email, the call out box can be in the center for us, it’s often to the right and it’s literally a boxed section and it’s it’s in my mind. It’s the headline it’s the action in a nutshell we want you to do x because of why and it’s it’s a shortened version if you want to read more there’s the whole email text that you can read and learn more about what the issue is. But the call out box is going to tell you what we want you to do. Why? And it’s gonna have ah, click it’s going to have a button to or link to click and immediately do the action or send in the money. So this is for somebody who’s, maybe just previewing. They read this cold outbox, but ultimately it’s the same action as if you got to the middle of the full tech that’s a bottom of a check that’s, right. Same action. And you sew for us too. We have a link or button often throughout the email throughout the call out box. I mean, we really make it easy for people to immediately we take action versus going through the entire thing. Do we have statistics on how popular the call out boxes versus going by showing further into the text? We would be able to know the amount of klicks from the call outbox versus the other clicks. Yeah, we could measure it. I don’t think we have. Just you found the flaw in the progress. You’ve done some consulting work this morning that we shouldn’t tell that it is a new toast way. Not like that. We’ll put that on the testing list meeting to the session. Exactly. Your audience would not have heard. You know, if you had not been here before. Yeah, before this, before the session. All right. No charge. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Through with no it’s. True it’s. Good point, actually. Very gratifying. Doesn’t happen often. Melkis. Okay, let’s. See, uh, all right. So we get past our email were also obviously testing different body of the text right now that this is more that’s. More elaborate. Yeah. It’s. More elaborate. And we it’s funny. We’ve tested some copy things, but often what will test is copy heavy versus image heavy things that are are more substantial. That are gonna move the needle a bit more. We try not teo. I mean, there’s tests that are interesting. And then there’s tests that we want to do that are really trying to get people tio to move the issues forward. And so we haven’t tested a lot within the copy itself. Unless it’s specifically the call to action that’s interesting now, because this is what i think people focus on the boat they dio so their focus is misplaced. It’s okay to say, well, i want i want people to approve we want people to improve, i’ll just speak for us. I mean, for hrc, i don’t think that is where our focus should be, which is why it’s not there for other organizations. It may be different, and we have tested for other organizations that may have a cause or a mission where they’re trying to figure out their messaging and in that case, figuring out how they want to state their case for support that’s a critically important tests to do and then something that should probably be done over several email messages where you have control groups getting a similar theme, or if you have a mission that has several different components. You spoke earlier about international work trying to figure out what part of the world people care about that’s, something that is worth text testing heavily with hrc there’s really don’t appreciate you bring up my one thing i said wrong well, see and overly latto that, with my brilliant way, gave you the brilliant oil pockets. No, no, you gotta remind people that i begin. What it does not get the i was right hat. So yeah, but that i mean, for some groups that’s, critically important for hrc that’s. We have so many other things past, so, yeah, okay, yeah, i would say that’s. True, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio i d’oh, i’m adam bron, founder of pencils of promise. So now let’s move next stages. We’ve we’ve refined our email as best we can. Nextstep is in a landing page. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to speak to what retested test every landing pages. You know, it’s interesting. I mean there’s, different landing pages. So for hrc, if it’s asking for a donation, they’re landing on a donation page and we spend a lot a lot a lot, a lot of time and energy and testing and thinking through exactly what they’re going to see when they get to that landing page. One of the air, the donation page. Because one of the things that hrc does very effectively is trying to get people to make monthly gifts. So we try to look at the donor experience of saying what’s going to encourage me to sign oppa’s a monthly donor. So we test what the text is. We test what numbers, aaron, the different donation options. We test it and there’s a brand new donation page for hrc. So that whole process, if it’s an action, then it’s a landing page where you’re asking people to take that action, and in the that case, we just try to go for clarity, making sure that it’s very clear what you’re being has to dio and as an said, making sure that theory of changes prominent so that people understand when they take that action there, having a positive impact on the issues they care about landing yeah, i mean, listen, first off, it’s tough to get people to open your e mails that’s number one so now you’ve gotten them to open it. You’ve gotten them to read it, you’ve gotten him to click to the landing page or to the action page or to the asian page, you have them so you don’t want to lose him at that point, so it in our minds, if they’ve gotten through to that point and let’s, say, it’s a fund-raising email make it as simple and as quick as possible to just have them, you know, hit the button and charge the credit card don’t spend a lot of times reiterating everything you’ve just said in the email and if it’s an action page, same kind. Of thing clear concise we’ve laid out the case for you. This petition is going to go to the governor for x, y and z reason click here so, you know, if you already got him where you want him, you’ve gotten them to take out the wall don’t oversell it basically, yeah, well, i make it consistent with the experience. I think one place where some organizations fall down is they’ll have that go to just a generic landing page or a generic donation page that doesn’t in any way reflect the experience they were having, so it won’t have i mean, we worked to make sure that the headlines are the same as in the emails they received in that sort of thing. So that’s, one of the reasons that we put the session together is because we were looking at the industry of things that people could be doing better than hrc does really well and go from there, i feel so strongly about consistent, consistent conversation with the reader that if we offer, say, a premium in the email for certain amount let’s say it’s, thirty five dollars and then they land on the contribution page. And it doesn’t mention it again, or we don’t start the thirty five dollars, unlike guys, we’ve just said this is going to cost thirty five dollars, then they land on the donation page, and we don’t make that reference again. So for me, it really is about the user having authentic conversation with your reader with your list and having a consistent, authentic conversation reassuring, yeah, i read this on the last page, but now it doesn’t say it anymore. Exactly five dollars like today and up in the wrong painting. Am i going to get what i wanted? It’s it’s, very it’s really important. Okay, okay, consistency, conversation. Um, after landing page, we have ah share page or some kind of post post post action post action and that’s, especially one of the other opportunities that hrc takes advantage of is if if the main action is to get people to sign a petition or call their congress person or something like that, there’s always a follow-up action where they’re given the opportunity to give because, as an said, if you’ve captured someone so deeply around this issue that they took the time to read the email to click it to fill out the petition they are most likely to want to embrace you even more and make a gift so that’s a really opportunity to encourage people to give that a lot of organizations miss out on and if it’s a donation, once people have donated, we want them to feel good about it. So we give him the chance to share the issue or to sign a petition or take take another step so that the experience continues. You always say, thank you, obviously, andi. So if this is tiffany said if they’ve taken an action, you know, get an email that said, okay, great, your actions been sent to the governor or whatever it is now, would you like to do more? You know, here’s an opportunity to give a donation. It’s not heavy handed, it’s just they’re given the opportunity many people don’t, but we’re often surprised at the amount of money that comes in from a post action shopped donation page. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pleased, very pleased. Yeah, and it doesn’t cost anything extra to add that step. Really? So so i never i never thought they were that successful. I guess i’m not obviously, don’t go by me. Yeah, and it depends on the issue. I mean, for some people, certain issues, they’re goingto be more important in the argon and not only take the action, but then donate for others. They’re just they’re comfortable with just taking the action, but but always give them the opportunity because you never know. Okay, you you’re spending some time in your session to talk about on order responder? Yeah, what are we talking about? First, i’m gonna keep you out of jargon jail, but i’m the one who said it. I don’t get you let you get me out of jail. Is that message that people automatically get through email once they’ve taken an action or made a contribution? And ah lot of email providers are set up to kind of send those auto respond messages and some organizations. All that auto respond message says is, thank you for taking an action with the human rights campaign. We think through what that says so that it is, as an says, consistent with e action, they just took it follows the experience they just had and a lot of times that will also give people another chance to act they’ll get a chance to do something else when they get that latto responder that that message that they get right away and his and said it always says thank you, yeah, usually so the order responded immediate, this is the immediate follow-up yes, right, right, okay, we didn’t talk about including video mentioned all about images. What about use of video in the email? Are you doing that more often as it isn’t working? Not in not in the email directly because it affects the affects rendering? I believe right now can it hurt delivery box is going to show up what people say on mobile, it doesn’t, because the hrc has found that they have when they actually embed the video within the email, the all of the open rates click through rates that sort of thing fall just because of potential rendering issues on different people’s individual technologies. So what we do instead is yes, so we’ll have an image of a video and with a narrow so it looks like you’re hitting the play button, but it actually takes you two in our case youtube, which is where we’ll and embed the video and that all that way they can see it and it’s a quick transition transact transition from that email to the video. Okay, and then within that video, we way try toe have words so that if people are viewing it without sound, they can still get the essence of what the piece wass eso last year, for example, at the end of the year, hrc had a very successful year. Last year, marriage equality was it was done by the supreme court. There were a lot of good activities, so to give their members the chance to participate, members were encouraged to send in their photos of the year and to make a urine video. So we thought, i don’t know, i thought maybe a couple thousand people. I don’t know how much you thought would do it. I thought maybe two. Three thousand. Yeah, i didn’t. I didn’t expect much, but we got seventeen thousand pictures. I mean, people were so excited to be a part of this. It was really i got phone calls from members saying i sent in my pictures. Could you please include them? I got permission from the photographer to include them. We got an ambassador calling, we got boardmember is calling. I mean, this ended up being so important, it really surprised me. So then when we put that video together, we had words throughout it sort of highlighting what the different groups of photos were, but we really let the photos speak for themselves. But the overall campaign, we had to really think of three because there were so many more pictures than we thought there would be. We created a siri’s of photo albums on facebook and then had other emails wherein post actions or things like that people were encouraged to then go to social media sites see the rest of the pictures because clearly we couldn’t put seventeen thousand pictures on a video or it would just be like a michael bay movie, and you were able to make it very, very inclusive. Yeah, yeah, it was clear to us that to not include i mean, everyone took it so so seriously that we wanted to honor that that feeling for them and include him wherever we could. All right, we’re gonna we’re gonna leave it there. Great. We’re gonna leave it with inclusiveness, okay? Like for human rights campaign? Yes, perfect. Now that twenty martignetti learned what human rights campaign does. I don’t mind it’s. Okay, if i do it different. But that xero durney neil isa, partner lautman, mascot neil and company and crowley, vice president membership in online strategy at human rights campaign again, ladies. Thank you very much. Thank you. Think, stoney. Sharon. Thanks, tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference. Thank you so much for being with us. And thanks to everybody at and ten the non-profit technology network next week, master google adwords and master your decision making. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by we be spelling not your seventh grade spelling bees for charities, we be spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Scotty, how come you weren’t listening today be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for June 26, 2015: Get Your Emails Delivered & The Open Movement

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Our Sponsor:

Opportunity Collaboration: This working meeting on poverty reduction is unlike any other event you have attended. No plenary speeches, no panels, no PowerPoints. I was there last year and I’m going this year. It will ruin you for every other conference! October 11-16, Ixtapa, Mexico.

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My Guests:

Harmony Eichsteadt, Brett Schenker & Laura PackardGet Your Emails Delivered

(l-r) Harmony Eichsteadt, Brett Schenker & Laura Packard at NTC 2015.

You probably don’t know if you have an email deliverability problem. You need to hear what Gmail preserves about your mail actions and how those impact what gets delivered. What’s a honey pot email? Harmony Eichsteadt was an evangelist at NationBuilder; Brett Schenker is email deliverability specialist with Every Action; and Laura Packard is a partner at PowerThru Consulting. We talked at NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 

Carly Leinheiser &  Craig SinclairThe Open Movement

Carly Leinheiser & Craig Sinclair at NTC 2015.

Carly Leinheiser and Craig Sinclair reveal what this movement around Creative Commons, Open Source and Open Data is, and what it means to distribute or use content, code or data from an open source. Carly is an associate attorney at Perlman + Perlman. Craig is digital media manager at Manhattan Neighborhood Network. Also from NTC.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I have to again welcome katie artie in davis, california, our newest affiliate, ninety five point seven fm really glad you’re with us. Thank you so much, katie. Artie davis, california oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with ginger vel stippling, if i had to speak the words you missed today’s show, get your emails delivered you probably don’t know if you have an email deliver ability problem. You need to hear what gmail preserves about your mail actions and how those impact what gets delivered what’s a honeypot email harmony eichsteadt is evangelist at nation builder brett shankar is email deliver ability specialist with every action did you know that such a profession even exists? And laura packard is a partner at powerthru consulting? We talked at ntc non-profit technology conference hosted by non-profit technology network and ten and the open movement. Carly leinheiser and craig sinclair revealed what this movement around creative commons, open source and open data is, and what it means to distribute or use content code or data from an open source. Carly is an associate attorney at perlman and pearlman craig is digital media manager at manhattan neighborhood network, and that is also from ntcdinosaur on tony’s, take two fund-raising fundamentals, my other show, we’re sponsored by opportunity collaboration, that working meeting that unconference on poverty reduction that will ruin you for every other conference here is get your emails delivered from and tc welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of day two of ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen we’re hosted by n ten the non-profit technology network and we’re in austin, texas, at the convention center. My guests are harmony eichsteadt brett shankar and laura packard, and their topic is the secret science of email deliver ability. Harmony is an evangelist for nations nation builder brett shankar is email deliver ability specialist. We’re gonna learn all about that at every action, and laura packard is partner at powerthru consulting harmony. Brett laura, welcome! Thank you. We’ve got we’re starting something new with the each interview today. On day two, we’re featuring a swag item and i’m wearing the first first item of the day from from at bay here’s my at pay t shirt password sucks. There you go. Swag item number one for ntc day number two we’re gonna pile them up. Let’s, i’m going. I’m dying to hear from the e mail deliver ability specialist because i before i learned about this session i didn’t know that such a job exists but i think it’s very it’s going to be reassuring to people it’s not nothing it’s scary at all but it’s scary i think it’s way need one. Maybe that we need them but i think it’s reassuring to people what does an email deliver ability specialist do day to day day today, pretty much i spend every waking moment making sure that every e mail sent has the best chance of getting to the inbox. All right, cool. It is reassuring. And other people are there. And the topic is the secret science of email deliver ability. Um, laura, why is this a problem? Why? Why? Yeah. What? What? Why? What? The problem is that many e mails don’t go to their intended recipients. So they go to spam or that i don’t get delivered. Why? Why is that weird that we’re going to talk about today? Why is that? Yes. Ok. And how to prevent it? Yes. And the problem is that people don’t even know it’s an issues so they don’t know what they should be doing. Tio make it better. They don’t even know harmony. We don’t even know it’s a problem. Yeah, i think i think a lot of times people don’t know it’s a problem and they don’t know how to even go about thinking about what it means to get an email to the right person or what they might be doing wrong that prevents the email from getting to that person. Okay, all right. What? Just generally because we got plenty of time together. What the hell’s going on in the networks that that creates a deliver ability problem. Well started really the focus of the email long time ago where it was the size you talk. Teo press. He talked to your investors. You talk to your board, any of those people and it’s always. How big is your email list and that’s what they cared about? And that was the focus over time, you know the shift of email providers like google yahoo all them of helping their clients and their customers to be happy changed over the years, so back in the day used to be just content, you know, nigerian scam stuff like that, but now its change tio, how people are interacting with your lists and it’s been a fundamental change, and really, unless you do e mail deliver ability or email full time, you have no idea that this change happened and it’s really relatively in the last two years that this changes really occurred. So now listen, eyes doesn’t matter anymore, but people are still focused on that there’s ah report by return path that came out not that long ago and thirteen percent of all e mail went to spam or when to spammer missing last year twenty percent, thirteen percent and ah, really talking about it at the panel, but i’ve been doing ah white paper and study and found on giving tuesday it’s closer to twenty four percent for non-profits is going to spam so almost one and four messages already get in there at the end of your fund-raising we’re talking more like eleven percent, and you do the math on that it’s a lot of money, it’s a lot of lost opportunity, so it’s just a very different focus emails in a very different place than it wass you know your tour go okay? Even that recent okay, past couple years, email shifts literally daily. Okay, so we got a good amount of time together to spend now that we’ve got some motivation out of the way on what to do about this harmony let’s start right here. What what what’s the first tip, you khun strategy suggesting you got sure. So i think the first thing i would say i mean there’s lots of really technical things, which i think is why it’s important to work with places that had email deliver ability specialist, i’m not one, but we’ve got one as well to help really focus on that. But even if you’re not super technical, i think the biggest thing you khun dio is just think about email andi remember that there’s actually human being on the other end of that and that you want to talk to them like they’re human beings, so don’t yell at them over and over again with the same message if they’re not responding, think about how different people are going to want to hear. Different kinds of messages remember to talk to them more than just once a year, so not just on giving tuesday, but build a relationship throughout the year. So sort of remembering that it’s actually human being and thinking about how human beings like to communicate, i think just that alone will start to increase your email deliver ability, really, okay on those are all very good suggestions to minimize them at all, but i don’t see how those what’s the connection, how short of those impact deliver ability, which is determined by our automated system. Totally so i think, sort of what bright was saying with the way that your emails will get delivered is based more on the engagement of your list in the size event, so if you’ve got to really engage list, then more of your e mails will make it to the inbox, and the way you get a really engaged list is that you talk to people about the things they care about, so they open your emails, right? So if i e mail you about something that has nothing to do with your life, you’re not going to open that email, maybe you’ll only open the ones that relate to your state or it’s a topic you care about, but if i make sure that i’m smart about only sending people emails about things that are relevant to their interests or their location, then that means more of the time you’ll open the emails for me, which will then increase your reputation over time. More of your e mails we’ll get into the in box, which increases your engagement, and it sort of becomes his virtuous cycle. And for those who are listening to the podcast and don’t have the benefit of video, lots of nods from brett through anonymous is unanimous recommendation. I’m still trying to get to the science of this. How does how did the automated filters is that okay? We’re doing. How did they know how engaged your list is? So ah, just like so many things out there, what google, yahoo, hotmail all them know about you and your email habits is freaky. Google literally measures how long you spend opening your email before you delete it or click down two microseconds so and they know who that email is from. Yeah, so they will know by the from address, they’ll know from the i p that sent from the headers that are in the email, like so many things they’re able to track who was sending it and all together they measure it so it’s everything from did someone open it? And did they immediately bleed it? Did they just delete it? Did they ford it? Did they reply back? Did they move it from their spam box that their inbox that they move it from the in box to a folder all that’s measured son of a gun, i’ll email this is what female is. Yeah, gmail is actually the one of the hardest all preserved. Yeah so gmail last occurred in a couple years old. It was like twenty seven percent of all e mail sent to gmail goes to spam. They talking to people at gmail. They don’t even know all the rules. It’s very it’s hidden like they don’t want everyone to know everything so they don’t want anybody. They don’t want one purse because they don’t like making the system yeah s oh oh my god! What they measure it’s freaky and then there is when it all started way back in the day of the first span was something like the seventies, i think, from there it’s, it’s, basie and learning so they have this algorithm that’s learning from everyone’s reactions and doing its best to figure out what to do with the emails. We kind of joked it, it’s, it’s, skynet, it’s, this learning system that sooner or later is going to rise up and take over it’s intel beyond intelligent to making these decisions millie’s the decisions and the fractions of a second remarkable you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way dahna oppcoll laura what? What else? Beyond the engaged lift, i would be careful how you obtained emails in the first place. Make sure that the people that are on your list want to be there, that you don’t just swap a list with somebody, and the people don’t even know who you are, let alone want to hear from you because those people are not going to be engaged, and they’re going to bring down the quality of your list. Okay? Okay. Anybody want to amplify the watch? Watch where you get your your your list from armani i think that’s so important. There’s in many ways, i think email deliver ability is sort of like the dark arts it’s ah, a colts and tricky. And we don’t know all of the things that they do, but way no, some of them and one of the things that could be really dangerous is that there are, like, honey trap emails that will be on a hot list way. Have a jog in jail on that radio and you are ah, severe e severe offender what? Let me explain what was the phrase again? Honey, honey trap email, honey, dropping their email. Address is set up to catch you if you buy a list of emails. So if you buy a list, one of them could have been set up by google. And they know if anybody said ditigal to it you’re on a list very calming. They seed? Yes, that are potentially going to be sold when they just seat every list in case it’s ever solve it. So they do it a couple ways. There’s. So these are also called spam traps and there’s really like two types. There’s what snow is pristine and then you can call the others, like basically used or expired addresses. Recycled tons of different terms. So the proceeding are never used as a real address. So they will put in on a website for bots to pick up. And they literally throw it out there to get caught. They want you. They want boss to steal it. And then if it winds up clearly it’s, not organic, they didn’t sign up. Because there’s, no way in hell this is used on. And then the recycled address are all the dresses that have gone out of use. And then they flipped him after a time. Period six months to a year, depending on the system. Some of them are like a couple months. And basically, if you’re not cutting your list and getting rid of these addresses, clearly you don’t really care about your list. I’m maintaining your list, right? So at that point, you’re bad dahna gun and then it becomes very hard to get any of your emails in teo an inbox once you’re, in fact, once you’re a known offender, yeah, yeah. Big nods. I love the way. Laura what? What? What? What? What? What if you are a known offender? Is there? Is there any rehabilitation possible? Well, if you are running into deliver ability problems when the first things you should do is cut off, the people that haven’t been responding recently to your emails just stopped emailing them on ly email to the people that are engaging with your emails. You, khun slowly add back-up people and then see what happens, but you need to go down to your known good list and just use that for a while until you break through all of these algorithms on these eyes peace so that you could get be delivered again. Okay, so, it’s, sort of like rebuilding up your credit. Yeah, you get you get a a card that has a fixed amount that you paid in advance. You have to rehabilitate your reputation. It’s. True. Wow, it’s, what a lot of people would describe it is it’s a lot like credit in that. Like a new organization with a new list. These email providers don’t know who you are, so they give you a very low credit limit. Yeah. And you have to build up a good reputation, and sooner or later you’re good. And you can free much. Do what you want until you cause trouble. I have ah, have a threshold question. We gotta go back to what you said earlier on all three that you may not know. You have a problem. But aren’t you getting bounced back? Oh, are you know? Are you? Not all the time. Getting bounce backs. Anybody? So yes and no. So you get bounce backs, but bounce backs might not be a sign of anything horrible. It could just be that in box was filled. That’s that’s amounts that’s. Innocuous? Yeah. That’s. Not certainly not your fault. Right. Exactly. Under it could be just the system was down at that time, which is actually really common tubes break all the time, and i think yahoo always kind kind of goes down, um, so that could be an issue or could be the account just doesn’t exist anymore or shut down. And then what happens is least withy spam traps and honey pots is they’ll bounce it for six months, maybe a year, and then at that point, they cut it off. So if you’re swapping lists or buying lis, especially for someone that has a horrible habit, you won’t necessary no, because they might not be bouncing anymore. I always call it when i’ve described it is it’s an std they’ve been with someone than they knew someone that may have been some sewing span transmitted disease transmitted and then, you know, you catch something and you might not know it’s a problem. The best description effort from anyone it’s, zombies and that’s one or two is not an issue sent earlier. The horde shows up and you’re you know you’re out of luck at that point. Okay, you need to do some serious work. Alright, cool. All right, thank you go ahead, laura. Also, every mass e mail provider handles things a little bit differently, so you may or may not see big flashing red lights. You may or may not know that there’s a problem. Okay, weinger absolutely, it depends too on where you’re looking and if you’re actually going to check to see if you’ve got bounces. Esso, i think depending again on what provider you’re using, you may not be even clicking on the place where there are the big red flags. Okay, okay, brett let’s not turn to you on ly teo amplify suggestion. But let’s say, have you given organic suggestion? This is again. We’re back now, tio avoiding deliver ability problems. I think the biggest is cut the list. That’s. The one thing no one does, very few folks dio is you cut your list. You want it small, lean and active. You know you might have a million person list, but if only a thousand people are opening and clicking it’s not really impressive. Five five thousand person listened. Five thousand people are opening click it’s way better than the million person list but that logic and that thought, isn’t present generally. People looking more at the vanity metric. Yeah. How many money? Like how many likes it got in my face, it’s that activity people on my list outdated thinking, very outdated. Okay, other suggestions? Yeah. Good. You should try to get a replay. Latto raise your hands very subtle, but it is very, very thoughtful. Thank you. You should try to get your list to engage more because that’s something else that the ice piece are looking at is how many people are opening, clicking, taking action. All right, i gotta be gotta be tips for what can we do? Right? So send out, send out an action to your list or send out a survey. Something that people are going to want to engage with because just reading your emails may not be good enough to get you out of the ditch. A simple ah, simple forward. You’re some call the action we’re looking for is that right? But it’s gotta be measurable. Yeah. Don’t just do not not pick up the phone. That’s no good thie email services. They’re not going. Yeah, the iast piece are not going to recognize that. Not yet. Okay, wait, if they’re coordinating. With another exactly could that’s not that’s? Not inconceivable. Alright, what whether what little tips we got for simple calls to action survey surveys are massive. People love to talk about themselves to a survey, especially if they’re opening it at work and they want to procrastinate what they’re doing and they can spend five minutes filling out a survey, i think that’s okay, surveys cool forward is good. We got another one and be very specific to the individual. I’m in mind. I think if you asked, i think a lot of people here, they probably send the same e mail to everyone. Yeah, it’s crazy. You know, to e mail should be the same that you’re sending out. It should be very tailored to the individual and very specific to their wants and how they signed up in what they care about. The best example i always gave his corporate world’s amazon. The e mails you get from amazon are beyond tailored. I mean to the obnoxious level like you go look at a item, they’ll email you, what, two days later with that item and here’s a whole bunch of other suggestions there’s, no other email it. Looks like that that goes out and that’s what we’re all striving moving towards personalized email beyond beyond so it’s supposed to have a list of a modest size? Maybe our listeners are small and midsize non-profit so let’s, take a five thousand person list small in the big scheme of email, what do we need? A we need a service, teo, help us to personalize to this granular level that we’re talking about. What? Well, no, we don’t we don’t. I mean, i think what you want is to have a system where it’s, easy for you to tell a lot of different things about people, so, like, which of those people follow you on twitter and which of them don’t? Because you could say, hey, thanks for setting up for the email list would also love tto engage with you on twitter to the people who don’t write which people are your donors, which people aren’t, which people live in texas versus california, you know which people have r s v p for events in the past versus haven’t and all of those things tell you a lot of different data, so you could say cool here’s our people in texas who are donors who come to events, we want to send them a specific email about that. Like, thanks for all of your participation this year. That’s. Really wonderful. Actually, you could gather this by one of the other suggestions. Have a survey exactly, have a servant. Now you’ve got a bunch of data and it’s and it’s targeted to that person because they because we know that they click through on their e mail link to the service. And they told you what they care about. Yeah. Yeah, if you d all right. Okay. Okay. Excellent. But the others, i mean, depends how they sign up. Like, if you are organization, that takes on many issues and you have an action that’s, very specific. You know, that person cares about that action, so you should test it out and see if that’s the one action they care about, you know, there’s some orders that i know do environmental and maybe banking too, or some of its and they’ll send the banking stuff with environmental people, which makes no sense because that’s not what they care about. So, you know, paying attention to how they interact and where they sign up and what actions they take is key. The simplest is just the donor’s at the end of the year. If someone’s never donated online, why are you sending a fund-raising ask so ask him to do something else a way we kind of year. I know you’re getting a lot of donation ass. How about share this instead? And then maybe their friends will donate because they’re not going to donate. You’ve asked him one hundred times. I don’t think the hundred first is going to get him to chip in five bucks, so ask him do something else, okay, let’s, stick with the deliver ability recommendations. We got another suggestion for improving deliver ability. I think another one is just tow. Have your emails be simple? Like a lot of times, people want them tow have you no borders and embedded videos and, like get really complicated, but just because that technology exists doesn’t mean you should use it and the most delivery ble emails have no videos, maybe not even any pictures or just one. They have simple subject lines. Onda more complicated. You get the hyre rapid reputation you have tohave to even. Get in an inbox because it just looks really spam metoo the filters now, but video is increasingly recommended in email. Now bread is on the fence about that. Not so much. When i hear the wreck. I know it’s being recommended it’s being recommended it’s not supported in a lot of email providers that’s the other thing is, you know, what looks good in gmail doesn’t look good, and yahoo doesn’t look good on gmail on the phone versus female on the web, it’s all different, your email will look different in every single provider we’re just talking about this on the list were i don’t know if you’re on the list was they were talking about jeffs, and so it was like, yeah, a moving image. Okay on dh that’s becoming more maurin emails beyond video because it supported a bit more, but someone’s, like i got to do this and i was like, no, because you have outlook users and it doesn’t work in outlook, so unless you know who’s an outlook, you shouldn’t be sending this. So what does it look like that just a square with a question mark in the middle of it broken. Images just will be an image that’s not moving. So unless you’re first images solid it’s, it looks really goofy on dh there’s, entire services that are built up, just a handle, that sort of stuff and you could do amazing things and our ally on it is amazing and impressive, but i mean that point you really no need to know what you’re doing, okay? And we’re starting to get that. Now you need expertise. I help you with your email. So if budget is an issue, better to keep it simple and linked to late link to the video somewhere else, will ya? And you can take us screenshot of the video. Really that’s right? Laura, you got another one? Well, i agree with what harmony said about keeping it simple and also make sure that your emails perform well on mobile because more and more email is being opened up on mobile devices on smartphones on tablets. It’s a third orm or it might even be half from more these. Yeah, so you need to make sure that your emails do well on mobile because if it doesn’t look good, half your audience is going to give. Up, that’s pretty standard with bulk email provider’s, isn’t it yahoo? I don’t mean i’m a male chimp. Not so not so standard. Really? The mobile trouble optimization? No. Now i know i’m not really all right, so you need to investigate their decent there’s more than just using their mobile responsive template. Okay, there’s. Much more than that. I mean, like a great example would be what you have in the email if you ask her fund-raising ask in the and people are reading in a mobile, then you might need to make it really easy to give money. So if they’re landing page off that moment, mobile is difficult. You have to fill out a whole bunch of fields. It’s wasted too much trouble. Yeah, so it’s beyond just, you know, using their templates. Your image has to be a right size. Your form. It has to be a certain way, or your ass will be a certain way. It’s not just using a template. Uh, okay. And if if your organization has been around a while, probably your email templates date back a couple years, and they’re probably not mobile optimized. All right, we have. Ah, we have another minute and a half or so roughly let’s share some more. I mean, you guys were talking for ninety minutes. Gotta beam or what have you, what have you not shared yet? Don’t don’t hold out. Or we can go into more detail on something you’ve already share. My i think the big one is don’t get on your high horse, i think a lot of non-profits political organizations feel that they can do whatever they want when it comes to email and that’s not the world that we live in there’s very set rules, no matter what the law says, many of them hide behind, like the spam actors can spam in the us, but there’s more than just that when it comes the laws. So there is a legal aspect to all of it, and i no idea what a lot of time with shawn gets busted and they always hide behind that be like, no, we could do whatever we want we’re non-profit or a political organization that’s not true, and i’m just like i they don’t care. No, they think your mind is gmail, yahoo all them. They have clients and customers to they need to keep them happy. So you’re sending e mail cost them money so they don’t care. This isn’t the post office. Where there? Yeah, okay, yeah, harmony. I think my final thought would be that email isn’t the only thing out there and it should be part of a holistic strategy so good you should think about multi-channel total, exactly text blasting and phone calls and social media and door knocking and there’s lots of ways to talk to people on dh you don’t even know email can seem to be the easiest cause you just hit. Click if you’re thinking sort of your long term goals. It’s not necessarily the most effective thing and it’s not the only thing out there if you want to just include all of your options, including all the social channels. Naturally. Okay, laura, anything you want you want end us up with i would just say that. Keep in mind just because you want to send something doesn’t mean that your audience wants to receive it, that you need to keep them mind their wants and their needs and make sure that you aren’t talking just teo hear yourself speak that you are delivering your information in a way that your audience wants to hear it or they will too now. Okay, you guys, have you done your panel already? Later? Today you’re gonna have a lot of fun. I can tell your audience is your audience is gonna love you. Okay, i’m gonna recommend yours. I wanna thank you very much. Thanks. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. They are harmony eichsteadt evangelist for nation builder and brett shankar. Our email deliver ability specialist with every action. And laura packard partner at powerthru consulting. Thank you again. Thank you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntcdinosaur profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us. I can’t send live listen love this week by state and city because pre recorded but live listener love does go out to everybody who is listening live labbate that’s not really so well stated. But, you know we love our lives, listeners, affiliate affections. All our affiliates throughout the country. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. Thank you. And again, katie. Artie, our latest and, of course, the podcast pleasantries over ten thousand of you listening. Maybe while you’re doing dishes. That’s. What? Someone told me lately. Listen then, whether treadmill, subway, car laying in bed, wherever it is. Whatever device podcast, pleasantries toe all of you. Tony’s take two and the open movement coming up first. I got to talk about opportunity, collaboration it’s an unconference it’s, an ex top of mexico for everybody working in poverty alleviation, there are non-profits from around the world you connect with people who can help you do your work. There’s lots of free time, deliberate free times you can meet people, make friends, figure out how you can help each other. It’s over eighty five percent sold out i was there last year. I’m going again this year. Amy sample ward will be there this year. There’s no plenary speakers there’s no power points every session is in a circle it’s collaborative opportunity collaboration three hundred fifty people from around the world getting together around poverty alleviation if that’s your work, you need to check it out at opportunity collaboration dot net i host fund-raising fundamentals for the chronicle of philanthropy that is my monthly podcast that is only a podcast never streaming live and it’s only ten minutes. It’s ten minutes once a month, and it’s devoted to fund-raising we’ve covered grants, events your board fund-raising planned e-giving major gif ts major gift relationships annual gifts mobile giving anything related to fund-raising that’s what’s on fund-raising fundamentals so if you love non-profit radio, then you might also love fund-raising fundamentals and there’s info on it at tony martignetti dot com it’s, also at the chronicle of philanthropy website, which is philanthropy dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday twenty sixth of june twenty sixth show of the year twenty six twenty six here is also from ntcdinosaur thie open movement welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fifteen were in day to today we’re in austin, texas, at the convention center. My guests are carly leinheiser and craig sinclair. Carly is associate attorney for perlman and pearlman in new york city, and craig sinclair is digital media manager for the manhattan neighborhood network, and then then welcome from new york city. Both of you, thank you, and i’m there. I’m based there as well. Your seminar topic. I love it contributing to the commons strategies for using open licenses. I say i love it because i think there’s a lot of things that people have heard of, but not really sure what they what they mean or what they’re doing, what they want to be doing. Um, craig let’s, let’s, start with you. What? What? What’s the, uh, what’s the open movement open movement is the idea that everybody knows what they can use and share. Basically, i’d saythe digest it simply that when somebody creates something they usually doing it for-profit and it tends to be close that you have to buy it. That there’s vendor that there’s somebody there’s a transaction financially involved there open movement usually means you can share something clearly with somebody else about having to change hands with money. There may be something else you’re exchanging instead, but it’s being able to make sure everybody has access to it. Full access, carly, anything you want to add to the overview? Yeah, i think there’s also some particular philosophical points that go along with the open source movement specifically, which is sort of the older, open most men. One of the ideas with open source software is this idea of software freedom, so that you, as the user, should have the freedom to look at the software that you’re running and understand how it works. And not only do that, but then be able to make modifications to that software and then and then you can share those modifications, so you sort of add to the world of free software that’s available for everybody. But this focus on thie idea that user should have freedom to look at. The tools they’re using is important. It’s sort of the idea of being able to open the hood of your car and see how it works on dh model for modification is well, right. Okay, cool. Um, what’s the best way to start should weigh. Begin by talking about the three creative commons open source and open data. Those is that okay? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s that’s. Sort of. The basic idea are these. What are creative commons? Open source and open data, right? So i guess a better way to describe it is they’re sort of different categories of works that are subject to copyright in different, different ways. So you have cultural works, which is what i think people usually think of when they think of copyright. So copyright a place of books, paintings, choreography, sculpture, anything that’s, a work of authorship that shows originality. S o copyright also applies to software in that source code is considered a literary work essentially. To put it simply on and then you have the idea of data, so data databases don’t have as much copyright protection. It’s sort of creative cultural works like i was describing, but if you have a sort of original or unique database, there might be some copyright protection there on then. There might also be copyright protection in the contents of the database. So if you have, ah phone book that’s, an alphabetical list of names. There’s, no copyright protection there, but say you have a database of, for example, the brooklyn museum isa great example. So they have ah, database online of all of their works. And you can search by license our or by works that are in the public domain. So they have a database that’s arranged by type of work and year and creator on and then the contents itself. Of that database being paintings and photographs are also covered by copyright. So then the open licenses are designed. Tio if you create a database or piece of software or cultural work, you could apply the appropriate licence to make your work open. S o that’s, where creative comments is creative commons licenses apply to cultural works to put it simply open source licenses to software and open data licenses to databases and their contents. Excellent. Excellent recitation. That’s. Perfect. Thank you. Very concise. Excellent. Craig, what is manhattan neighborhood networks interesting? This and that is that is that it’s the community access it’s, the union taxes tv from manhattan. Okay, and we have hundreds of producers who are making shows for us on a regular basis. And while most of it something they’re creating themselves, they may want music to go underneath that they may want to put an image up on screen. They won’t accept someone else’s video whenever you do that, unless you have a lawyer, you don’t necessarily know how legal it is on fair use in particular, which is often the thing that cited for re using something is open to such vast interpretation that usually the organization gets scared and we’ll say no, you can’t use anything else unless you have explicitly were viewed the copyright yourself or signed from someone whose organization being mn mn mn yes, on dh. Although we have for on air broadcast on television disclaimers off making it putting on producer, that still doesn’t. Help them! The organization may be protected, but we don’t want anything to happen to our producers over, so if they’re using something that has a creative commons license, for instance, which is simply the most common and popular of all the open license, nothing, they will know exactly what it is they can and can’t do with it. Usually we ask them to look for things that are non commercial anyway, because that’s then use it helping out somebody else in that field. But often, creative commons licenses will ask for attribution and to share alike, so when you’re using it, you’re also kind of giving back to the community because you are helping someone else who was a creator that shared something that you’re benefiting from and then you’re promoting them in turn by giving him a credit in our case on the television show and this is a nice way to kind of maintain the movement and paying it forward while you are producing you think excellent. So do you find yourself using open source and open data or not yourself? But your producers are they using those also for trying don’t really show much they thing. Is that sometimes we use the more without realizing it, so if you use the internet, the chances you’re using open source on a relatively regular basis you just don’t know because you may not go and look and see what tools have been used to make the site that you’re on. So were, for instance, a using open source is an organization because we used rupel content management system buy-in cvc aram to run our website and also our back and website, which manages all our producers, shed jewels or former television channels, all of our equipment and everything in an incredibly complicated initiative we’ve been involved with now since two thousand five called community media drew pool, so we chose that initially because we wanted to recognize is a non-profit that open source was more philosophically aligned with who we were, and we could tweak it and expand it as we needed. And yes, since two thousand five it’s changed pretty radically, but it’s incredibly stable and incredibly robust and weaken, we’ve been able to do what we’ve needed to make it available to our star from producers. Now pcrm is here, you and t c just stop! By have come of your own you love there there’s a there’s a lot of it’s, very rare to go to a place where people discuss their favorite sea around that you see that that’s what ndcc for exactly, but no savy ciroma fabulous! They also of the the open source efficient are those open source choice in many ways they very xero if you go into their convention, then you’ll suddenly realize the people there are the ones that make everything and they’re just so friendly and access. All right. Close community. Yeah, it’s really seriously around is very, very special place to call grayce kottler let’s, let’s spend a little time with well for both of you, but moved to carly creative commons. Now i see creative commons on youtube azan option for what kind of licensing you want your video and i think that’s a cz we’ve used both said it’s, the most common what exactly does it mean? So what does that mean, teo? Like if you upload a video to youtube, if you’re to apply that lesson period of comments to video, right, so so there’s six different creative commons licenses on dh they basically the different licenses have to do with what kind of restrictions you put on somebody’s use of your video eso you khun sort of most basic lana’s you just ask for attribution back, which means if someone were to take that clip that you uploaded to youtube and reason, they would have to credit you back-up if they make something there’s also share legs, if they make something new, they would have to put it out under the same license. They’re non commercial and no derivatives restrictions, no derivatives means they can’t change it, but they could redistribute it. S o if you actually, if you are blowing up to you to be there is also an option to choose the license on flicker a a bunch of other sites, or this is sort of getting more common. Um, that means you’ve sort of tagged your work with this license on dh, so you’re giving permission to anybody who comes across it to use it a song as they comply with those conditions. You’ve also made your work searchable by licence, which i think is a cool thing that creative commons does, so they when they talk about their licenses. They say there are three layers there’s, the legal code, the next layers, the human readable code because, you know, lawyers obviously we’re way don’t write things for human story on, and then the third layer is the machine readable code. So your computer khun search engines khun search for these licenses and actually creative comments is a search feature. If you go to search that creative commons dot com, you can put in what you’re looking for and you have an option to search clip art flicker, google image, search all sorts of different sites for works that you can use and you can put which conditions you want. So if you need something just for, like non commercial purposes, it’ll give you those. If you want something you could use for any purpose, i’ll give you that right about in the implementation of creative commons that m n n craig, anything like lessons lessons learned among your hundreds of producers, the main one is that no one, really you’re the in the field guys are no one really understands what copyright is or how it applies to them used to be that you would mail yourself something you’ve made registered post, it seems and not leave it unopened and now it’s away, but even for us is the broadcaster but some other community media stations it’s unclear whether it’s, the organization or the producer that actually then owns the copyright and no one is kind wants to sort of say they do or they don’t. Everybody that produces something kind feels they own it. So in explaining creative commons, it takes the world for people to grasp it, but when they do, they’re kind of amazed the issue tends to be that a lot of people in all spears feel that when they’ve made something they’re proud of, they deserve to be financially recompense for it on dh. What we’ve tried to say is it’s one of the things you can benefit from is you’ll be more likely to have it distributed if you’ve given it a license to share it because otherwise no nose and if they are, they may be doing illegally and all right? Well, they’re fine. Many, many examples of people illegally showing a thing on television to too many people are singing the song in the group, which had never crack down on when someone’s made it and put it out onto the internet in particular, you want them to be able to have it sent on. And i think, why you? When we’ve said, if you use creative commons, someone knows what they can do with it. And they also more likely to know who was created it. That has begun to get traction slowly with the long term producers. Okay. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that or an a a me levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Dahna carly, anything more you want ad about creative commons before way, proceed. No, i think that probably covers it. Yeah. Okay. Okay. How about open source? Just remind us what open source applies to what kind of content? So open source supplies teo software essentially and there’s sort of two different philosophies. So a lot of people refer to it is free and open source after because they’re sort of the software freedom side that i talked about earlier and then there’s this idea of open source, which sort of focuses on the collaborative benefits of are the benefits of buildings after in a collaborative fashion. So the idea is you’re going to get better software if if the source is open, everyone can look at it. You have more eyes looking for bugs and issues, andi and then sort of people who start to use it if you’re free to modify you. Khun seo there’s there’s a feature i want that i don’t have. And i could just build that in. And then if you’re using a share like listens. So the most common share like license in the open source context is the gpl dig. A new general. Public license? Yes, if you’re working with softer that’s licensed under that license, if you make modifications and redistribute them, you have to share it under the same license. So that’s, how the commons grows in the open source context. Okay, okay. Craig, in the community what? One of the things we do with it is because i’m not a developer, but we’re using it. We give back in another way as well. So although i can’t be can’t country code back off, then i will find bugs. I’ll find issues i’ll post about them to highlight them for other people. All right, documentation. So i’ve used that i know how to install it. Maybe i know then how to configure it for different needs, that we have an ecosystem of people toe they recognized by using it that they’re not required to give back. But if they do it’s going to help everybody, and so there’s the general usually kind of for drew people in service. Erm from the one you get a default installation off it, and then you, khun, do whatever you want afterwards and you know that you have that strong base to build on and that is something which you, khun help then with the extensions that come along with it. We’ve also my last job in amherst, massachusetts smaller community tv station didn’t have enough money for a network hard drive for the building, so we used open source for hardware, and we bought we built something for probably a tenth of the market cost, just by having access to local people that want it there was that was what they want to play with. They were producers in the sense that they were technologists are over the television makers, and they would not have had this opportunity to use this equipment themselves because they could not afford it. We would have not been out to take advantage of their their skills over ways. And so we created a situation where we got something we needed for much more affordable and actually much more stable than we would have done by going into the market. I love the flourishing of the community and is the sort of equality of it and egalitarian and the country contributing. You got me wanting to say, contributing to the contributing, you know, i just, uh, it’s it’s just very inspiring. The movement is the movement is growing. Yes, growing. It’s your encouraged if you if you look at the piece that played the places and people who use open source it’s incredible. I mean, the white house website thing was the most famous first one to be using drew triple. But second, that we just learned this i’m not. I wish i wish she would set it first cause then i would admonish people you always should be listening to non-profit radio because in the last segment we learned that drew people is this is the the the back end of the whitehouse dot gov write remarkable love that yeah. Okay, so we’re encouraged the movement is flourishing. Hopefully, yeah, i mean exact conferences like this it’s interesting example to see how much open source there is compared to how much vendor options for the same thing and it tends to be the open source. Somebody will just have an idea they don’t have access to over resources. So they look around and see what there is and then they create. There were, like maker events and hackathons people. They they will often try and replicate something else. They’ve seen and in order to do that themselves, these are the tools they found on dh. Other ways. They will then make the tools themselves. So it’s it’s, kind of a nice way to express your creativity into the sandbox, where you were allowed to use all the toys and develop new ones that no one’s thought of. Yet. I love it. Carly let’s. Talk about open data for our data base. Sure, so i think the open data movement is sort of the newest movement. And so there there aren’t a ton of different licenses yet, but the basic idea is that open data again should be if you build a database, should be freely available for anybody else to use either with attribution or if you make modifications to the database of the contents. There’s there’s, a share like open database license as well that you can use. I think what gets tricky about open data is first of understanding. Um, what parts of the database are actually subject to copyright and where you need to worry about a license? Because, again, if you’re talking about a phone book, that’s just names alphabetically, there’s not really any copyright issues. Um, so and and the other thing is there’s this sort of weird concept of database rights, which we don’t have in the united states but exists in the european union and a few other countries and the idea there it’s not a copy, right? It’s ah it’s a protection in the investment that the database maker put into making the database on dh so they get some protection for that time investment and the ideas where those database right supply other people can’t use a substantial portion of the database without permission so creative commons in these open database licenses had to figure out how teo sort of waive those rights in additions, any copyrights in the database if you happen to be in a jurisdiction where they apply s i think that could be a little tricky, especially because if you’re just in the united states and those don’t apply, you maybe could use the database without a license at all, and you don’t want to sort of restrict people unnecessarily if they had the right to use the database in the first place since s i think those are those are some of the issues with open data, i think e think there’s also some entrusting things going on in big data generally where i think people are thinking about how to use large amounts of data and make sure you’re using it ethically and that you’re not sort of infringing people’s privacy and thinking about what your looking that so to me. That’s, that’s some of the more interesting er action in data, okay. And, of course, from the snowden disclosures an enormous, enormous topic. Okay, what do you mean, what? Do you have? How are you using open data were not really using at the moment, i think it is us thing come along, but i’m really interested in it because of what people are doing when they talk. You realize how much is being shared that no one’s aware ofthe so most of the times i’m i’ve come across its being a group like the sunlight foundation who made a prize application programming interface is for people to use and just not generous. Generous you are to explain a p i from listeners who may not know because theon non-profit radio we have drug in jail. You just you you avoided it completely durney probation? Not even i mean parole not even required grayce warrant sentence it’s one of the ones i think i have to say myself for a moment, if you ask me what? Actually that means in a more detailed technical way, we’ll reach a threshold printing quickly. Okay, you’re greek. They have, like looking at so federal state and local data means that you can use those for your organization and begin to filter it so you can find out about things like voting records. Or use of resources on dh then the everyone would be transit often. I just set right piece about baltimore had said it was gonna cost six hundred thousand, no way think six million dollars to do some project and take years. It took one guy a weekend to work out. He contacted his friends, who then build something in the next couple of days, just for fun and for free to show it could be done. So if there is data it’s off knowing yes, how open it actually is whether you are allowed to access it, and i think you’re right with snowden revelations, people are more cautious about this. They don’t want to trespassed against it, but when you realize that you can if you have access to it, find out this over information and use it to help people out. That it’s a very compelling topic, which i think next year at this conference is going to be a much bigger deal. Moron, open data to come. Okay, well, we’ll be at ntc steen. I think they’ll have us back. Are we gonna leave it there? Thank you very much. Reinardy leinheiser, associate attorney perlman and perlman and craig sinclair, digital media manager at manhattan neighborhood network carlene krauz, thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks for sharing and sharing openly on dh, but we won’t. We won’t make any modifications. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntcdinosaur profit technology conference thanks so much for being with us. Lots of thanks to everybody at the non-profit technology network. I loved being at ntc this past march. Next week there is no live show it’s fourth of july affiliates. I will of course, have an excellent archives show for you. Got to take care of our affiliates. Affiliate affections happy fourth of july, everyone next week hope you enjoy your long weekend. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com opportunity collaboration with world convenes for poverty alleviation. It’s an outstanding unconference that will ruin you for every other conference opportunity collaboration dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is on the board as the line producer. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, susan chavez dot com and our music is by scott stein be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other, ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Hey! What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. I took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe. Add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 5, 2014: Anniversaries Are Opportunities & Work Smarter Across Email And Social Media

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Susan Gabriel: Anniversaries Are Opportunities

Susan Gabriel
Susan Gabriel

Susan Gabriel, senior associate at Cause Effective, has tips to make your anniversaries–5th or 125th–more than a night or a weekend. They are great opportunities!

 

 

 

 

Alec Stern: Work Smarter Across Email And Social Media

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With Alec Stern at NTC

If you coordinate email with the social channels you’re using, people will have a better experience with your organization. Alec Stern shares his strategies, then tells the story of Constant Contact‘s birth. He’s a founding team member and vice president for strategic market development. (Recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference, NTC 2014.)

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, it feels so good to be back in the studio live and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with a para fire in jail abscess if i had to swallow the fact that you had missed today’s show anniversaries are opportunities. Susan gabriel, senior associate at cause effective has tips to make your anniversaries with her fifth or one hundred twenty fifth mohr than a night or a weekend. They are great opportunities, anniversaries are and work smarter across email and social. If you coordinate email with the social channels you’re using, people will have a better experience with your organization. Alex turn shares his strategies, then tells the story of constant contacts. Birth he’s, a founding team member there and vice president for strategic market development. My interview with alex were alec was recorded at the non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fourteen a couple months ago on tony’s take two do you know about my other show? We’re sponsored by generosity, siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks i’m very glad that susan gabriel is with me here in the studio she is senior associate at cause effective, she and they provide coaching and consulting services to non-profits on resource development challenges ranging from starting or strengthening annual major donor and anniversary campaigns and increasing board fund-raising to maximizing the strategic potential of special events and anniversaries and that’s what we’re here to talk about on twitter, they are at cause effective. Susan gabriel, welcome to the show. Welcome to the studio. Thank you very much, it’s. A pleasure to be here. I’m very glad you are. I’m glad have a live guest to welcome me actually back into the studio because i’ve been away a while back i am alive your life and live alive cause effective is a non-profit itself we are. What is your work? Helping other non-profits i like to say we have to walk the talk because we are a non-profit where? Thirty, i think almost three years old now, and our mission in life is to help other non-profits build their capacity around resource development. So we’re that’s that’s key for us that we’re capacity. Builders were not the kind of consultants who come. In and do the work and leave necessarily and not so much will come in and tell you what you should do and then leave, but we really sit side by side with our clients and help figure out what are the best strategy? Is what’s going to work for you? And then we’d do an awful lot of coaching side by side, making it work, making it stick. I get a lot of requests for fund-raising consulting, how do we get to the next level? Were mostly founder funded or very small board funded. The board is not effective at fund-raising beyond e-giving from their own pockets and it’s a small boarding. And how do we get to the next level? I believe cause effective khun do exactly that can help those kinds of organisations? Absolutely, yeah, that’s a that’s a question we hear every single day because we’re kind of stuck and you know it can happen to very small founder lead organizations and it can happen very large organizations as well that we’re just stuck. We don’t know how to move it. We don’t have to move the board. We just seem to be living in the past and not be able to really diversify our income streams. We know we need to do that to be smart, to be healthy in the future. And how can we sort of unstick everything and get it moving forward a lot that that a lot that unstick ing is that they’re being stuck in event fund-raising yes, and we’re going to talk about anniversaries specifically, but that’s a lot of what i referrals that i’m asked for our you know, we have an annual gala, we do some events during the year, but we know we know like you’re saying, we know we need to diversify, but, you know, can you help us? No, i the work i do, i cannot all i can do is refer and it’s not an easy referral, so i’m really glad to have found cause effective. It’s a pleasure. I like i said, we hear a lot of that. We talk a lot about year round fund-raising relationship building, so fund-raising is it’s that old thing? Fund-raising is friendraising its building relationships with people year round, building a community of support around the organization and many many of our organizations are stuck on. The one annual event, you know, if they’ve never done outreach to individuals very often, the first thing that we think of is an event. So we do an event and we do the event year after year, and breaking down out of that model is is one of the key leverage points is i see to helping people move forward. That’s outstanding! I said, really glad to have met you and calls effective because i can refer non-profits to you and i hope they come to you were thrilled. Let’s, let’s, talk about anniversaries we have ah, there’s. A lot of potential that’s not being realized. Absolutely that that’s. That word opportunity. I told you when we chatted that that that’s, the biggest word i use around anniversaries is for some reason people pay attention when it’s your anniversary. We know when we have a birthday we have a fiftieth. You know, wedding anniversary. Whatever it is, people will drive across the country. Write to help us celebrate. So people pay attention differently when it’s the anniversary of an organisation and it’s a wonderful time to gather everybody together again. You know everybody who helped make the organization what? It was to say thank you to people to applaud too celebrate the past too, really let people know where you are now and then. Of course especially toe let everyone know what the vision is for the future and how they can be helpful. So that idea that’s one of the leverage points for me in terms of the opportunities that anniversaries provide it’s more people kind of building the team right building the bench so that more people, our thinking about us and reaching out out on our behalf and opportunities or anniversaries are a great time to do that. So clearly it’s already sounding like it’s, got to be more than an evening or even a weekend. We do a workshop very frequently that’s called more than just a party because again that’s part of that stuck thing where people think, well, it’s our anniversary so i guess we better do a neve ent we better do agulla and very often some sort of event. Regala is part of it. You’re not saying that doesn’t belong. No, no, no, no, of course not, no it’s great, you’re going to celebrate, you’re going to invite everybody around, but very often that’s just one of the things, even in smaller organizations that don’t have the resources to do, you know, seven or eight activities during the year are too completely, you know, do a re branding, which people vary off organizations very often do during the anniversary, but even just putting, you know, the fortieth anniversary logo on your website, changing the letterhead, gathering people to celebrate in a different year in a different way. And that idea, you know, looking back former honorees, former board members, former staff, volunteers, donors who were no longer with us and the sort of building back the community touching base with everybody again to say thank you, because they all helped you get you know, where you are today, but then again reenergizing those relationships, so they’re sort of part of the team moving forward. When should we start to be thinking? If we have our fifth anniversary coming up for our one hundredth anniversary coming up, when should we start the planning? Those might be different answers. I mean, if it’s your fifth anniversary, i love it if they’ll start a year out and i know that’s very difficult for smaller. Organizations, you know, very often people wake up and go oops. It’s our anniversary, we better call cause affected somebody just told me yeah, our anniversary’s coming up? Yeah, so the lead time is really, really key cause again, that possibility of reaching out and finding people and and planning, i think, is so important because, again, that that idea of opportunities we always start when we’re working with any type of an event or certain or even an anniversary campaign with your objective and way often asked the question, where do you want your organization to be at the end of the anniversary period? And that’s? Not just i want to raise ex more dollars or i wanna, you know, have three more major gifts or i want to get two more board members, which are all very, very key goals, but there could be lots of different things that you want to accomplish. A new database, a new website you created and, you know, create an advisory committee or whatever it happens to be. So we find that at the beginning of the planning session, if you’ll step back, take a breath and, you know, gather the right. Folks around the table on dh really ask ourselves that question. You know what we want to accomplish in our anniversary, or what can we do now? And what can we build in to be a little bit healthier and stronger, you know, over the next, even three to five years, outstanding. You mentioned we just have, like, a minute and a half or so before ah first break getting the right people who are who are so well now where let’s say we are the six months in advance and maybe it’s our for our audience probably more like their fifth, tenth or fifteenth or twentieth anniversary coming up. Who are some of the right people? That should be in the in those early conversations. That’s a great question and i was pretty pleased with it. I was way asked the question, who might be interested in our work? And that is very broad. Sometimes we have attention. You get stuck on the question of who can we ask for money? You know, and that’s, what will happen if we’re just having one event who might be should be could be interested in supporting our work in some former fashion and then looking at that university people and inviting, as many of you know, representatives from those various groups around the table to do a big brainstorm with us and think together with us about how the organization can meet its goals in the anniversary. And then, of course, ultimately, we hope those people will continue to be part of the solution right part of the team that continues to make the cancerversary a success. This could even be community members, absolutely volunteers, parents, alumni program participants, local vendors. You know, the insurance guy that you know, boardmember sze funders, whatever makes sense, a lot of, you know, government folks are government allies, bring him around the table, and if it makes sense it’s case by case. But you mentioned funders that’s an interesting yeah, funders past current finders there. Well, if they’re interested, right funders future, if you can get them there, you know, potential board members, potential funders, absolute. What a wonderful way to engage them in the work with you. We have to go away for a couple of minutes when we come back. Susan, i’m going to keep talking about anniversaries as opportunities. Stay with us. You didn’t think that shooting getting dink dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. Dahna cubine this’s, the cook, said about bush senior wear hosting, part of my french new york city, or guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia. From paris to keep back french is a common language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it common desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us. Pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future. You dream of. Two one to seven to one eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We got to do live listener love because it’s so been so weak many weeks that i haven’t been able to let’s start here in the us. Shelby, north carolina, levittown, new york and new york, new york live listener love to you also langley, canada in british columbia live listen, love up there, let’s, go abroad several in japan we see tokyo, but there are several others masked or hidden for some reason. Konnichiwa, sweden, paris, france we have a guest live. Listen, love susan, please, for paris, france got you italian, mexico city, mexico. Hola. So korea and inchon, korea also on your haserot our anniversary very impressive. You’re beautiful. Yeah. Finders all with the new york accent. You lost your accent for the for there are parisian er’s. Um, the anniversary it is not well, we already said doesn’t even have to be weekend, but it could be months, right? This could be a long term affair. Could be long term affair could be twelve to eighteen months. Easily, it could easily be even a two or three year campaign. I mean, many larger we’re going to do? And you said you said when do we need to start planning? So if you’re planning an anniversary campaign where you want to raise, you know, five, ten, fifty million dollars you need to start way up front, you know, again, who are the right people? What are the right goals? First of all, who are the right people that we need to gather around to help us reach those goals? And the whole idea of a silent portion of that, you know, campaign before it goes public on raising a lot of money and awareness and getting the branding and the messaging straight before we ever, you know, take it live so it could easily be a year to even two years of planning. I love that it’s not just around fund-raising there all the stuff that you mentioned before the break, like new new database rebranding, i guess it could even be evaluating your mission statement. Perhaps you know, the core values, things. I mean, there’s. A lot of a lot of opportunity here having nothing to do with fund-raising or volunteer recruitment per se, right? Yeah, a lot of organizations do that kind of. Work, they’re doing a strategic planning process right before an anniversary is a great idea if you can pull it off, we do a little mini strategic planning is part of our work with organizations because we do want to take a breath and step back and say, you know, where are we where we go and what do we need in order to be able to get there? What are we trying to build hutu meaning on the team? What kind of resource is will we need to really to really be able to get there? S o but a lot of organizations do doing a formal strategic planning process right before an anniversary before they because that tells them where they need to go on the kind of objectives that they need to have, and it can be programmatic. Absolutely, it could be building the capacity of the infrastructure of the organization, and it is related to fund-raising because if you want to start a new program or, you know, beef up a program you’re going to need, the resource is in order to do that, and you’re going to need that, you know, the human resource is as well, including the people on your board and we have all these people together. Are we proposing things that we would like to be our goals at the end of the anniversary? We’re also listening to what they think we should be doing exactly both. I think i think, you know, because some of these people don’t know what’s really, really well and part of what we want to do, gathering them around the table is to get to know them better and have them get to know us better. I think tow walk into an anniversary planning process like that with a pretty good idea of where you’re going, what you as an internal team think your goal should be, um, and presented to them and share it with them, certainly for feedback. You want to hear what they have to say, but you especially want to here with them in terms of messaging and what might be meaningful to them and people like them in terms of engaging them in the way we want, you know, we want to have a relationship with these folks ongoing. So what would that look like? Please tell us what kind. Of messages you would need from us, our communications, or what kind of events and activities would be most meaning bill to you and people like you. Now you make just slip down a little bit. Yeah, there we go. I want you to be comfortable, okay? And i want people to be able to hear you, um, goals these need to be. I hear this from a lot of guests, but we’re going to reinforce because it’s been a while. Measurable, right? I mean, we talk about smart goals specific, measurable, achievable, and i forget they are in the team, all of those things. But we want, you know, like numbers of new donors. Perhaps if we were talking about fund-raising and maybe what sectors they come from potential channels. I’m glad you said sectors, because that, yes, measurable is really, really important. Just that old adage. Write what what gets measured gets done so as specific as you can make goals, you can say we want to raise more money, and if you raise an extra dollar you’ve, you’ve succeeded. But if you say, i really want to build our major donor effort and we now have five people giving us ten thousand plus and by the end of the anniversary period, we wantto have twenty five, people e-giving us that amount. That’s very, very clear. And justus, you said tony it’s measurable, so we want to be able to celebrate. You do want the goals to be realistic. You can’t be pie in the sky because you want your team to feel really, really good at the end of it. Like we we definitely succeeded. We definitely took the organization forward because that’s a very motivational to keep people engaged. If this is our fifth or tenth anniversary, what do you think are some some reasonable goals? I think you know it’s, our favorite answer at cause of activity. Thanks. It really depends on where the organization is, right? Tell us a story can share a client story about an organization that exploited its its anniversary and did. Well, um, sure, i can. I worked with a dance company whose board was lovely and very committed, but not used at all to reaching out on behalf of the organization and really serving as the face of the organization. The chair was knew he’d never been a chair. Before, it was a lot of work to do in terms of sort of building that second, that second team and by the end of the anniversary period and in fact, during the brainstorming session which i led for them, three meetings of pulling, you know, gathering all those folks, those disparate folks around the table, they had three new board members who were very active and you mentioned before from sectors came from different sectors of the economy. So they brought different collectivity and networks with them, and they’re in a much different place. The board chair, i can say, is doing a terrific job. He knows exactly what he’s after now and he’s out there, you know, introducing the organization to new people into new board members and getting you know it also having a lot of fun. Outstanding. What anniversary was that for them? Ten. Now you have your own background in the arts. I d’oh what? You are an actor. I was. Does that help you in your work? Certainly. With the arts organizations i use you mentioned that it wasn’t in my bio on the on the website. We do put it in my bio. When, when we’re ah reaching out to arts organizations because we, you know, we think they find it that’s fine, i have about half a dozen different bios, one emphasizes standup comedy, one emphasizes plans giving charity registration, exactly downplay everything because i’m embarrassed fundez organization, you know, whatever. So yeah, i have a lot of bios is, well, yeah, i understand it certainly helps me in my training work. We do a lot of workshops, we do a lot of training, you know, in front of boards of directors and engaging people, and being funny and and entertaining is certainly eyes, certainly helpful in that in that work. Yeah, there’s quite a bit of don’t dole training a lot of doll out there. There’s a lot of dollars is a lot of people are paying for it. Unfortunately, most of what we do is free, so i’m really glad that you made that point. You can get entertaining, entertaining smart people for free, excellent. After we have our goals, where what’s our next step in our planning, i think it’s the team again, it’s, who were those people? Who do we need on the team to actualize those goals? Xero an anniversary committee we’re talking about now? I think so. Okay, you start with the internal sort of, i call it the internal working group, but the internal team and then you go external when you’re ready, when you have your your goal is pretty much said, and you know where you’re headed, you’re going to gather the people together that you think can can get you there and his divers a group as possible because they all bring different skills, different connectivity, you know, different levels of commitment, but i think that’s key that’s one of the leverage points in terms of taking your organization to the next level is building the group of people who are serving as ambassadors and thought partners, and ultimately, you know, donors and supporters for your organization, the more people we have i mentioned earlier that idea of a community of support, the more people we have in that community, that air reaching out on our behalf. The bigger and bigger that community gets, and then we can really create a sustainable fund-raising model and it’s, not the same people asking the same people over and over and over again. Now, obviously, we have to take care of them on the other side, the’s a relation in ships with riel humans so we can reach out and raises over exactly if we just forget about them. We can’t expect them to be there the following year if we don’t take good care of them, let them engage otherwise it’s, poor relationship building and exactly were suffering in a lot of more fundamental ways than not getting the most out of our anniversary. Yeah, exactly. Presumably you would’ve invited to these initial meetings some of the people that you’d liketo see on the anniversary committee and you could be gauging their interest in doing that from the from the early meetings. Exactly a lot of those jobs that you is that old, i think it’s a dale carnegie thing of when you ask people for money, they give you advice. But when you ask people for advice very often it leads. It leads to money. So when you pull people together. It’s really? We just want to think together with you we want to get your thoughts. We want your ideas, but part of that is that you’re cultivating them. They’re getting to know its justus you said they’re getting to know you, you’re getting to know them. And very often people who have who have come for these brainstorms they will. Now what do i do? How can how can i help? Because this is great. The other thing is, is getting them asking other people for advice, an anniversary or kind of any day of the week is a good time to ask people for who should we be talking to? You know, if you’re not interested or if you are interested, who else do you know who might be interested to give us a little advice about something? Sametz spur, tease? Open a door for us or, you know, help us with our marketing or the right, you know, crafting the right messages or whatever people there’s a lot of different ways. That’s another thing i like to remember and share there’s a lot of different ways for people to be helpful to our organization’s. Not just money. Absolutely. We have our committee. Now together we start assigning roles, responsibilities, leadership, etcetera and my right. Or have i skipped anything? I don’t think so. I think that’s it. Okay. You have your goals depending. I mean, we’ve run one hundred fiftieth anniversary campaigns where there were seven different subcommittees. You no one was marketing. One was community outreach. One was fund-raising, etcetera, and smart. You know, smaller organizations where everybody’s in the same room together. But division of labour is definitely important if you can get volunteermatch leaders that you feel really comfortable working with to take on certain bits of this work, especially in a small ah, you know, not so well staffed organization that can be really crucial if somebody’ll take ahold of one of the pieces of it and run with it. And then you can sort of be the little wheel that that manages the big wheel instead of trying to manage, you know, seventy five different pieces. Who’s who’s who is shepherding this entire activities? This. And is there an honorary chair? Well, maybe not the honorary chair. Was there there’s an anniversary chair person. It was a volunteer or remember what again, adding, it depends very it depends on the organization and the structure of the organization sometimes it’s, the executive director who’s sort of keeping all the wheels moving if there’s a development director, very often it’s his or her job to do that in terms of leadership and sort of inspiring the group very often, it is that share of the anniversary who’s actually doing the outreach to especially high level folks, if it’s a big ask whatever that amount is very often it’s that person that we’re looking to teo to provide that leadership i’m i’m doing this, i believe in this this is a great opportunity, wonderful organization, and i’m asking you to join me, which is a very powerful and different message than coming from, you know, the development director who who works at the organization, so we love it when we get that peer-to-peer outreach and asking from members of the of the committee and those leaders, you’re absolutely right. Those leaders are key and making sure that it’s successful, what are some of the fun activities events that you’ve seen around around anniversaries? Oh well, you know, amazing things, carnivals and you know different things that people have done with auctions. People we have a wonderful group that i’m working with it. The heart of their mission is is volunteers corporate volunteers reading to young people on their lunch hour? They literally dropped down out of their offices for an hour and reid to the same child week after week. Can i plug them? You go, it’s called read ahead and they are read ahead and they are terrific and they’re inviting celebrity readers. And we had bobby kind of ali at the event last year and he did a wonderful job doing doing his reading from a children’s book. So something that’s very mission centric is is is most profound. I think the worst thing in the world you want to somebody leaves an event of any kind, but certainly your anniversary goes around to the office the next day and says, wow, i went to this great event, you know, it was on a yacht or whatever it was, and somebody says, oh, what group was it for? E? I don’t know it’s something to do with kids, you know? You know? So you really want people to be steeped. In the heart of your work, when they walk out and have a wonderful, enjoyable time, you mentioned quickly look focused a little more on some of the communications that might be different for around anniversary. You have f some advice around the marketing communications part ah, tiny things specifically, mostly it’s, that issue of just making sure everybody knows it’s your anniversary, that idea of inviting them in ah it’s a celebration we want to hear from you come in and be with us. Come to a you know, come to a barbecue in the summer aura, you know, holiday party in december. That idea of really thanking people and it’s very warm and that kind of outreach and also being very specific about about where you’re going and how people can be helpful, i think cause effective has some events coming up that i think we wantto give a little shout out for. Thank you. We do. We have. Ah, we do a lot of the workshops. Thanks, tio. Various and other organizations with which we partner. We have ah, works up. Coming up on october fifteenth at the foundation center and that’s about the development team building. A strong development team between the development department, the executive director and the board and even the program’s staff. And we have a lovely workshops around building your board’s ability to fundraise that we’re doing in partnership with the non-profit coordinating committee and city foundation. And that is taking there’s one in october in in brooklyn and there’s, no one in long island and one in connecticut. Where can we find information on cause effective site on the cause, effective site or and or on the non-profit coordinating committees site for the ones for their or foundation center for the first foundation center for the first one? We do usually three or four workshops there. Ah year. So i’ve coming back. I’ve done training there, too, on plant giving in charity restriction. Not boring, not boring, not boring. That’s what people said, i’m convinced already. Thank you, susan gabriel. She is senior associate, senior associate at cause effective. You’ll find them on twitter at cause effective. And the cost effective website is as effective dot org’s susan gabriel. Thank you very much. Terrific advice. Thank you so much is absolutely my pleasure. Pleasure. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Generosity siri’s you know about them, they host the multi charity five k runs and walks and they are a sponsor and so i have to give them shout out what is special about this is that small and midsize shops probably likely can’t generate enough activity enough participants to have your own run walk. You know you can’t go out there with fielding twenty people everybody’s going tto gett there and say, where’s, the party, but you put together a dozen or fifteen charities, and everybody brings twenty or so, and now you’ve got three hundred fifteen times twenty yeah, three hundred or so. So you know, i i just i love the concept of building this community for a day around your fund-raising they have a charity support team that helps you do the fund-raising of course, you get the, you know, you get the dashboard to get the website and everything so that your participants can go and they they in classic peer-to-peer fashion, you know, they ask all their friends, of course that’s all included in what what generosity siri’s does. I like to talk to people on the phone and so ah, you know, pick up the phone, talk to dave lynn he’s, the ceo. They have activities coming up in new jersey, miami, new york city and philadelphia. There are seven, one eight five o six. Nine, triple seven if you prefer the web generosity siri’s dot com do you know about my other show? It is fund-raising fundamentals. It’s, a podcast that i host for the chronicle of philanthropy. It’s very different than non-profit radio it’s it’s quick, quick burst it’s only ten minutes long, it’s a monthly and its devoted to fund-raising topics i usually have a consultant and one of the charities that they’re working with or a client you know, client or former client last month was getting large corporate gif ts we had the president of the wells fargo foundation and the ceo of accelerated schools in los angeles, one of the wells fargo grantees. Ah, i’ve done facebook fund-raising with john hayden getting to the next level online storytelling attracting monthly recurring gif ts creative lacoste thank you’s, lots of others i’ve been doing this for about two and a half years for the chronicle. You will it. It is called fund-raising fundamentals information? Is that tony martignetti? Dot com and so so on itunes and that is tony’s take two for friday, fifth of september thirty fifth show of the year here’s my recording with alex, turn on working smarter across email and your social channels. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c with me is alex turn he is remember the founding team and vice president for strategic market development at constant contact, alex turned welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you your workshop topic eyes grow your non-profit with email and social media, i presume we could be smarter non-profits could be smarter about working across on coordinating email and social. Yeah, for sure that there’s a lot of opportunity with the different channels that are out there today, and i think, you know, email is that targeted kind of private conversation i’ve given you my email address and your now reaching out, communicating to make there’s that opportunity where, you know, where’s, the supporters, the constituents of that non-profit hanging out and oftentimes it’s on those social channels, so when you think of the marketing mix there’s there’s, a wide variety of those options each non-profit for-profit i’ll figure out kind of which channel works for them and where their base is hanging out, but you can you can sort of leverage that communication, get in the conversation and share the things both in email and then replicate those over on the social channel so they may miss it in the inbox and pick it up on those social channels. And how do you know which which social channels you should be spending your time on? Yeah, so that’s a great question, i think, you know, oftentimes non-profits, you know, say, well, no, should i be on all of them? The best thing is really to sort of pick a channel where they believe that their constituents or hang out, they could certainly ask them, you know, are you on facebook? Are you on linked in twitter and so forth, and then test test their way and figure out when those channels get a presence on that start toe post? You know, some of their communications, some of their thoughts, and then really just see the engagement that starts to happen. And then once they kind of get a channel down, then they can look at which other ones make sense to expand on. Okay, so this has to be deliberate and unconscious and not it’s new, so we should be there. Yeah, i think, you know, you know, there’s an investment in terms of your time, for sure as you’re supporting these because you’re, you know, at your inn a conversation so it’s not just sending out of communication and, like you would say for an email that’s going to send in someone’s inbox their going to read it, and they’re going to take action. You’re in a conversation certainly is that expands over onto social and so in supporting that, you just we’ll figure out which ones work on and spend and invest more time in those if that’s where your constituents or hanging out ok, and then you’re good the the value in converting from the from the from the conversation on the social network two two as you call it it’s exactly the private conversation and email, right. And what? How do we how do we make that we start to make that leap? Yes, i think. You know, the as non-profits air supporting their customers and being, you know, all different constituents. So it’s it’s donors, it’s, boar, it’s, their board, it’s, their volunteers, supporters, there’s a whole wide right of different folks that are kind of involved with that. Non-profit and so as they’re in the conversation, say, on social, they could do they ask, you know, at that point to say, hey, you know, would you want to subscribe to receive our our newsletter, and then, you know, when they do that, they can set the expectation in frequency to say, well, our monthly news that air around events, you’re special events, news, you know, alerts about what’s going on with the non-profit and so oftentimes if they get in the conversation on one of the social channels that usually will drive them to want to, you know, go over and subscribe therese, receive some other information via email and so forth. And you suggested in that example you just gave making the case in even in let’s say it’s, even just a twitter ask, but making the case for why you should sign up, not just sign up for our email ar e mail alerts yeah, i think you know, the, you know, from the recipients perspective, you know, that being the constituent, they’re going to make decisions around what they’re where they’re going to sort of of hang out, and if they believe in what the organization is doing there supporting it, they like they like kind of the work that you’re doing there, hanging on those social channels just simply by asking its and sort of setting the expectation of what they would get if they were to subscribe through, you know, you know, the email newsletter, then they go over and and so then you’re going to meet their expectations because, you know, kind of told him i had a time what the what to expect? Yeah, it’s subsumed in everything we’re talking about, but let’s make it explicit. Email is still very valuable for for campaigns of any type, whether it’s money or call to action email is very important, right? Yeah. There’s, no question. You know, when you when you think about sort of the targeted nature of that’s going into the in box, they can take take action with that, you know, with the push of the button receiving that they can go and donate that can click toe, attend the event and very easily with the click of a button, share that to their social channels. So you get the leverage of it’s, sort of a trusted source. I believe in this organization, ivan affinity with with it. And i’ve got a bunch of friends and people that are sort of following me on my channels. So literally push of a button, share it out to my social channels. And then that could engage others to want to take a look at the organization and it’s coming for me. I could put a note. Say, hey, this is that organization i told you about let’s all go gather together, go to the park and teo, you know, the spring cleaning event or attend attend event. You know what? Do you guys consider making a donation as well? So i could be doing and ask of my friends simply by taking the email that’s in my in box and informing that on an email still has very high open rates. Yeah. Still valuable in that respect. Yeah. Eso, you know, certainly with, you know, with constant contact. We’re seeing over ninety eight percent, you know, kind of in the inbox and readable format, so, you know, the great thing is it’s getting there, and then they can easily take action from from that email. What about if listeners are our audiences about nine thousand small and midsize non-profits what about the, uh, millennials? Younger? Like suppose you’re trying to activate, like, i don’t know, fifteen to twenty five year olds or so is email less less? Uh, well, lower open rates among those ages for email and mobile becomes more important. Mobile in text. Yes, i think just across the board mobile in general, about fifty one percent. You know, recent studies say about fifty one percent are sort of opening those emails through through mobile initially, so, you know, kind of half the people are looking at on a mobile device on dso, a cz faras where, you know again, where’s, the audience of that non-profit hanging out potentially the millennials have you on some of the social channels, but you have that opportunity to do the ask on dh as you engage with them to have them subscribe in of course, then they would be able to get their communications v e mail as well. So, so, really it’s a personal preference, you asking you? And if email is not my, not the way i want to communicate with you, i won’t subscribe, and i’ll stick with the channels where we’re having the conversation right, exactly. Okay, um let’s, i know we need teo. We need to go to a lot more detail on, you know, leave. Leave listeners with something they can not necessarily execute, but least test on. Dh. Think about sure as they is there in their social channels and coordinating with email. So what? What? What about your your panel? Is that your i’m sorry, your workshop already already happened. What? What advice did you have for people that we can leave listeners with get them thinking about their own work? Yeah. It’s ah, there’s a lot of places we go with that i think they know there’s some there’s, some kind of key things to sort of take away. I think first, you know, when people were thinking about moving on to social channels and, you know, in my session, folks or start asking kind of which channels or should we get going and others who would be broader and you’re kind of the things we talked about earlier, i think one of the things that, you know, testing their way and again ist is figure out, sort of which of those channels when creating when creating their communications, for example, email there’s. That there’s the ability with one click for my creation of that email toe push those out to the social channels, but i think, you know, for example, fired five tips to why they should support my non-profit i could easily hit a button and share those on the channels that that we’re supporting is a non-profit but if you think about that, if i had these five tips, one thing you could do is, for example, on twitter, maybe do one tip today, right? So take spread those five out into five tweets on dh then so of course, with the same, you know, called action where, then go and see the others if they’d like. So then you have the opportunity and potentially catch someone who may not be on the channels when you’ve put that initial communication out through it. But now you have an opportunity, maybe catch him, you know, because they’re hanging out at the time when one of those additional sort of tweets happened, so i think there’s ways to take take the communication and share it, but also take the content and think about ways to sort of divide that up on dh. Use it effectively across the different channels, okay, um also value in sharing the content that others that others have created maybe an ally. I’m not thinking simply adjust the the retweet, but maybe going deeper and introducing people teo on allied organization that those similar type works maybe in a different part of the country. Or you’ve got a relationship, perhaps on a different level, with an organization sharing their content introducing. And i think at that point you become an introducer of people you’re making making new connections value there, too, and you don’t always have to create your own content. Yeah, so one of the big questions is always around content, and i think you could certainly be developing it on your own because, you know, you could be our authentic self is a non-profit you can talk to the audience about the things that you’re doing, but i think there’s so many constituents right under your soda under your nose that can support support your content as well. So you think about boardmember tze you could think about your supporters, your volunteers, the folks that are actually delivering the services on your behalf and, of course the recipient of those services so there’s, so many different folks that could actually be assisting in writing and developing some content, putting it sort of in the voice of the receiver of service, is that the ones who are actually delivering it? Staff, i mean, there’s there’s, sort of all of those things. But, you know, oftentimes there are complimentary non-profits there’s also different advocacy groups and folks that are talking about the similar topics that you would be supporting us a non-profit and so we would always suggest you could go read some of the content that’s out there and then put some opener in your own words when you’re attaching or sharing some of those things. So from a thought leadership perspective, here’s, why, i think it’s important for you as a supporter of our organization to read that information in terms of the your various internal constituents. How do you how do you empower them? Tio? Be content creators and enable them? And where does that stop, mister? Start with leadership, right? But how do we had a week persuade them that they can create through the content for us? Well, i think you know there’s. There’s a lot of different ways, tiu that ask sometimes you can just start simply by serving out, you know, asking for feedback, right? Few backs, a gift, so just going out to the recipient services and getting their feedback and then sometimes sharing back hey, you know, maybe we maybe we made an adjustment to some of the services were providing or we added another, you know, clean the park day because people said it was so great will want to do more of it. And so, you know, just simply by surveying, getting that feedback and saying, hey, we we heard you were going to add another day, and this was based on the feedback that provided by you are our supporters at the same time, when you’re thinking about your different constituents, anyone receiving services, you know, that gets to sort of the heartstrings of hearing from someone who, you know, i may be made a donation, that person received these services and what it did to them and their family, and then seeing seeing kind of the impact of what i’ve done with the delivery of those services, you know, is a real feel good and so, you know, they’ll be happy to share that, you know, they’re sort of their experiences staff and others that are delivering the services would want to share their experiences in doing so, and that certainly doesn’t feel good there as well. And then you kind of move around those different constituents, the just simply by asking, you know, you’ll find that several people, you know, believing in the organization will want to sort of tell their story from their vantage point. I think volunteers is just another great way where, you know, they’re they’re investing their time, they’re bringing their friends along to assist in volunteering and helping as well. And then, you know, they’re constantly and not even with the ass. They’re constantly always going to be sharing, you know, they attended the event that took photos, they want to post those they want to just talk about, you know, kind of the great experience, they’re they’re investing their limited time, we all have limited time, right? And so and they’re going, they’re going to sort of share on their own. But when you ask, you know, there’s, certainly i would feel good if the organization came to me and said they would love to get your thoughts. You know, do you mind telling us a little bit about your experiences with supporting the organization or volunteering? And people are happy to do that. This is going to require, ah, maybe a cultural shift in the organization. Our content is no longer just created by our web team, our web web person with, with, you know, in a small bits i shot, that could be one person. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re going tow, tow open, open up the culture, right? Yeah, i think you know it. It’s sometimes it’s an ah ha moment. You know, i actually helped start a couple of non-profits a cz well, sit on some boards and when we have these conversations, it’s sort of like, oh, ok, now i get it, you know, i didn’t even think of them as as opportunity for presenting some content for that we could be sharing. So it is a little bit of a shift. I mean, oftentimes you go rightto folks in marketing or on the content team and you know where they’re just going to be cranking out some of that content. But now they these two can reach out and find some other constituents that will assist. And i had a guest yesterday make the point that you have ah, production facility in your pocket with your average smartphone. Why not? We’re not empower people who are carrying those phones. Teo, his case was make a short video, right? So, you know, i think, yeah, the other thing, you could have some fun with it. So you know, there might be a contest around the organization. Was doing something where they’re like they wanted people to create t shirts, you know, or maybe some some branding around the organization, and so they have a contest and everyone starts creating those. Of course they’re going to want to share the ones that they’ve created they might may have. Well, here’s the top ten list or here’s the winner, of course. What are they going to do there? Want to tell everyone and share it on on their social networks? They look, check it out. My shirt wanted this contest at the local non-profit and so you could have some fun with different different ways to engage them. You probably have an interesting story. A founding team member of constant contact, constant contacts, pretty well known organization, which i’m sure you’re very pleased with. Yeah. What, what? When? When was i mint twisted in the founding of ah, such a ubiquitous company. When? When was the founding s so how did it come around? Sure. So, you know, from day one there was actually there’s three of us in an attic when we started. And then we quickly sort of banded together a great, great leadership team and others toe sort of help in sort of the founding of the organization. When was this? Where with a what year was this the ninety seven and ninety seven beginning in ninety eight? Okay, and so from day one there was obviously with with many of us there was, ah, sort of a passion to want to be involved with. Non-profits and we’ve we’ve supported non-profits from the get go, we’ve gotta cares for kids program where our customers are, partners are employees can all donate an account two of two non-profits that that are near and dear to them on, and certainly once that where they’re sort of supporting educational programs for kids. So we’ve been really active and involved there. Hyre and so today we have over a hundred thousand non-profits that we work with and so it’s, you know, obviously very key key part of the business and, you know, when we started early, i think, you know, one of the early premises were level the playing field for smaller organizations to be able to use the tools that you know, like email marketing against sort of the big box in the agencies and folks that we’re doing for for larger org’s yeah, what landscape looked like at that time, late ninety seven, ninety eight what was available before there was constant contact s o there were certainly some things that were being done on the enterprise, you know, kind of sort of upper end of the market for larger businesses, but there wasn’t present much for smaller, smaller organizations and non-profits and so, you know, at that time and still we see it today, ah, little bit where the inbox, you know, they were using some of their inboxes, you know, sending group based messages and attaching things to those and of course, all the problems that sort of ensued with using that as a marketing channel. And so, you know, as we evolved and creating this very easy to you sort of self self service tool, but but bringing in all of the thought leadership, the know how in the coaching to assist folks because, you know, we have over six hundred thousand customers today, and they’re all small businesses, you know, seventy percent have ten employees or less, you know, fifty per cent of two and twenty percent have one employee, so we’re dealing. With the v in very small, fifty percent have to two employees. Yeah, okay. And so, of course, in the non-profits scenario, there’s a lot of volunteers and other stepping in. And so we had to tow really figure out sort of that success formula. Tio, make sure that teach him how to do it well and help help them succeed at it. And now you have consultants who are who help help do the training. Yeah. So there s oh, there’s all kinds of way that we will assist them today. Last year, we spoke toe over four hundred thousand people locally. So we did about seven thousand events delivered by folks that we have out regional development directors in the field, but also we have authorized local experts that that air trained upto speaking as well and so we’re out, sort of in the communities delivering that thought leadership and best practices. Tto help folks succeed at that. And of course, if someone raises their hand and said, you know, i need assistance, you know, we have marketing coaches that are gonna help them, you know, as they initially get started, we’ve got, you know, sort of support. Any time where they can call on get assistance that way. But if they really do need someone to assist, we’ve got, you know, thousands of consultants that are local, and many that are also, you know, focused in different verticals that can assist them. I want to give a shout to ah maria simple, who is unauthorized local expert she’s a listeners know her very well she’s monthly contributor in prospect research, but she also is unauthorized local expert for constant contact. So i think if you’re thinking about constant contact, you’d like to learn more that no better place to start, maria simple and you can certainly get her through the show’s facebook page through my blaga tony martignetti dot com or her sight, which is the prospect finder dot com super yeah, she’s outstanding. Yeah, so glad she’s part of the show and has been for we’ll be a year and a half or two years, so yeah, um, let’s go back. Teo. Teo to your workshop. Back-up what? What more advice can we believe non-profits with you must have other tips. Things you take aways that you want to share? Yes, i think they’re a couple. Of you know, in terms of what we’re talking about content, i think one of the things today more so than ever, given that, you know, fifty one percent of the folks we’re looking at things on mobile phones a little bit on the less is more so thinking about, you know, oftentimes we want include images and and other things in there are communications want to make sure that the footprint of those air small so that it could be, could be read on those devices a supposed toe, you know, the way often see where have to sort of scroll side to side or up and down to see some of them. This is very important optimized for mobile, right? What do you say? Fifty percent of one percent opened on mobile? Yeah, kind of initially looking at the communication through mobile, so i think it’s really important to think about from the sizing of sort of images, but also make each other there’s an alternative text there if the images is blocked, so they’ll know kind of what, what, what they’re missing, but at the same time, you want to keep the content sort of short, sort. Of shorter and sweeter and you know you’ve got it, you’ve got sort of, you know, the initial two words of that subject line or kind of key, you know, you know, today or don’t miss out or, you know, things around, you know, sort of getting them. Tio tio want to go on and read that so they may look at it, the mobile they may actually, you know, go to the called action and do something there, of course, then you have the back of it being in your inbox. So then go look at the uso the full communication, but we would also guess, you know, if you’re doing a newsletter, you could do some of the initial content on, and then you could do some some sort of tease them with the article and then a link over to see the rest a supposed toe, putting everything in the communication. So there’s some some options there? Kind of, you know, dr them toe wanna click through because, you know, opens aren’t necessarily in an indication of reading, but what if they’ve clicked to go and see something you know, that’s that’s a good indication so as you look at things making immeasurable, i think one of the things that way often see is just, you know, thinking about the call to action and, you know, measurable results, right? So today, someone might say, well, so even, you know, email driving over to social, you know, if we get so many likes or so many shares that’s great, but but thinking about what? What you’re back to your goals and objectives of that communication, is it? Is that really it or do you want to be driving you? No action around, you know, attending our event or, you know, click to donate s o something something deeper than vanity metrics exactly and said it’s and said, you know, set that those goals and objectives so that that you’re mapping your communication to achieve that, and then of course, then, you know, as you go and and you create your communication, think about the leverage of sharing that so giving that campaign and through email, more life, bike by sharing that over on the social channels and as we talked earlier than once they’re on those channels and you, you’re building your building the conversation with, um then doing that ass to get them to subscribe in to get the targeted messaging through, you know? So so you you have the opportunity in that marketing mix to capture them wherever they’re hanging out. So if they miss the communication as ah, you know, because it’s girls through on social, they can always be coming back and seeing that in their inbox to take action. Okay, excellent. Thanks for your advice around. Coordinating email in social thanks to me. My pleasure, alex turn is a member of a founding team and vice president. Strategic market development. Constant contact. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc not brought the technology conference. Twenty fourteen. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you, tony. Thanks to the folks at and ten, the non-profit technology network got more live listener love people joining in kawasaki and shoes. Wacha, japan. Konnichi wa. Beverly, massachusetts. Atlanta, georgia and multiple new york city lots. People in new york city welcome live listener love to you going abroad again. Let’s. Go to china, nanjing ton gene ni hao the philippines air with us. Ireland is with us can tell what cities in either of those countries, we could see la paz, bolivia, though don’t we don’t get too many listeners from south america welcome live listener love and coming back here, mount st joseph, ohio live love to you. Next week we have a seat altum he’s going to talk about using your irs form nine ninety as a marketing tool and also another interview from non-profit technology network. If you missed any of today’s show, you’ll find it at tony martignetti dot com. Remember generosity siri’s for those multi-channel ity five runs, walks, generosity, siri’s, dot com, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing on the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. I hope you will big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Yeah. They didn’t think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get anything. Good. Come. Join us for the thirteenth annual vigil for international peace and ecology on sunday, september twenty one. From nine a, m to six p, m. Celebration of live music and dance performances. Spoken word human-centered line art installations in a world peace flag ceremony that celebrates the united nations international day of peace. That’s sunday, september twenty one from nine a, m to six p, m central park numbered band shell by the bethesda fountain. For more information or volunteer, go to www. Dot vigil number four. International peace dot org’s that’s, the number four in the earl, or call to want to chip in to five, four, three two that’s a two one, two, triple two, five, four, three two we’ll see you there. Krauz durney you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking. Hyre