Tag Archives: Human Rights Campaign

Nonprofit Radio for November 30, 2020: Virtual Event Engagement & Personalized Video

My Guests:

Mike Wilkinson & Joshua Meyer: Virtual Event Engagement
Virtual events are routine now and there’s good reason to believe they’ll outlive the pandemic. We’ve got you covered with pre-, intra- and post-event strategies to maximize engagement and raise more money. Our panel is Mike Wilkinson from Human Rights Campaign and Joshua Meyer at OneCause.

Mike Wilkinson from Human Rights Campaign

Joshua Meyer at OneCause






Matt Barnett: Personalized Video
Matt Barnett explains the benefits and use cases for short videos that grab attention and thrill recipients. Think volunteers, prospects, donors and anyone you want to feel special. Matt is at Bonjoro.



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[00:02:44.94] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Yes, Abdominal has made it into the introduction and exalted August position indeed. Welcome. Heh Abdominal. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with Bala Muthiah Mandrell, Aris if you exposed me to the idea that you missed this week’s show virtual event engagement. Virtual events are routine now, and there’s good reason to believe they’ll outlive the pandemic. We’ve got you covered with pre intra and post event strategies to maximize engagement and raise more money. Our panel is Mike Wilkinson from Human Rights Campaign and Joshua Meyer at one Cause and Personalized Video. Matt Barnett explains the benefits and use cases for short videos that grab attention and thrill Recipients think volunteers, prospects, donors and anyone you want to feel special. Matt is with bon jour. Oh Antonis, take to my December Webinar were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives Prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and a free month. Here is virtual event engagement. It’s my pleasure to welcome Mike Wilkinson and Josh Meyer to non profit radio. Mike is deputy director of events at Human Rights Campaign. He and his team organized over 30 annual events nationwide. He previously worked for the National Kidney Foundation and the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. HRC is that, HRC dot or GE? And at HRC? Joshua Meyer is senior director of marketing at one cause. He has two decades of fundraising, volunteer management and marketing experience. He started his non profit career at Human Rights Campaign. The company is that one cause dot com and at one cause Mike Josh, welcome to non profit radio. It’s

[00:02:45.10] spk_1:
great to be here. Thanks for having us, tony

[00:02:47.05] spk_0:
E. Have you back now? We had originally recorded this as part of the non profit technology conference when events were still face to face and we were talking about digital engagement for your face to face in person events. Obviously, Josh, you’ve seen lots of clients. Well, all clients, I suppose, either move or cancel events. I mean, there’s all that is the only two options in today’s world, Um, but there’s still a lot we could do around Digital to keep people engaged pre during and after, right?

[00:03:21.14] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s that’s for sure. I think back in March, we had a weekend with hundreds of events ready to go, and it went down to zero. But I think what What was really interesting is that, you know, non profits are so resilient and they quickly figured out that they had to sort of make this ritual pivot, right. And we’ve seen a lot of that Ana here one cause we become sort of focused on virtual. First Way had these long standing in person fundraising events sort of moved to a virtual virtual format on dso they all. They all get it. And I think I’m really excited. Toe have Mike share sort of what they’ve done over at H. I see, you know, as their sort of moving the virtual, the next thing now is really like, how do we engage people? Right? What’s the social engagement component of these of these virtual fundraisers, and how are they? How do we get the people who are watching from their living rooms right to get involved right in this, uh, this virtual program. So there’s all sorts of neat things that we’re excited to share about.

[00:04:24.77] spk_0:
Yeah. Cool, Mike. What did you see initially? A T h R c where you did you see declines in in, uh, event attendance initially when you moved online, and then now you’ve gotten smarter and you’re seeing increases.

[00:05:35.24] spk_2:
So initially, I’d say, you know, our approach was we sort of had, you know, money in the bank already for some of these fundraising events. So we used that as an opportunity to do some testing on virtual events. You know, we already had, um, some results for events that have been canceled. We had folks that are sort of like, wait a minute, I paid money for this event and, you know, as a charity, they want us to keep the money, but they want something for it s oh, we did two events in, uh, April and may, um, that were events that pretty much were carry overs from in person events. And we learned a lot from those events. Um, I wouldn’t say that we saw a decrease in attendance from the event, but I will say, um, you don’t have the attention span that you have for a Nen person event. That immersive nous to it is just not there. So you have to do a lot of work up front in order to get folks to be excited to actually participate in the virtual event.

[00:05:58.24] spk_0:
Have you found there’s an ideal duration or just vary by type of event? I mean, I’ve been hearing like 45 minutes, even less than an hour. People are seeming thio, seeming thio, seeming to seem to prefer.

[00:06:10.24] spk_2:
Yeah, I mean, I would say unless you have fee like blockbuster capabilities of, ah, Hollywood studio, you’re not going to keep anybody for longer than a now, er, like they’re just not going to do it because it’s not that interesting. You know, I think I think 45 minutes is a good amount of time. I think, um, we had one signature event that I think we’ll probably talk about here a little bit that went a little bit longer. That had a big national scope. But yeah, you have to be very, um, reserved in the amount of content that you present to the audience because they’re going to be paying attention to Onley pieces of

[00:06:50.64] spk_0:
it. All right, Josh, why don’t you start us with, you know? So we’ll do this, like, pre during and post event. Um, you have ideas around SMS texting?

[00:07:01.92] spk_1:
Yes. So we’ve seen texting, um, both to drive attendance. Right, But also engagement, um, at the event. I think the other thing that we’re seeing pre is this this sort of change on? Mostly, uh, you typically pay for one of these fundraising events, right? If you’re going in person and we’re seeing sort of a change in that people are organizations are charging them or they’re not charging. They’re trying. They’re using them Is broader engagement tools, um, to get sort of general membership. But maybe also major donors involved. Whereas typically, sometimes these gallons would focus more like the major donors set Onda as a result of that, then they’re also sort of layering in. And Mike and his team did a really interesting thing there, which is sort of doing tear. So there’s like, a free tier for ticketing. But then there’s also like you could upgrade paid, uh, ticket that got you some sort of swag or some sort of premium that they would send you afterwards, right? And so I think that’s when you’re kind of looking at sort of your driving attendance. And how do you factor in where you traditionally see revenue coming from from tickets? How do you should have recruit some of that that revenue and as part of your fundraising stream on driving through actual ticket sales and our engagement that day of using SMS Thio get people to engage like I don’t know if you wanna talk a little bit more about how you guys did, um, ticketing. But also e think it was really interesting the ambassador fundraising that you guys around your table captains?

[00:10:01.14] spk_2:
Yeah, certainly eso to Joshua’s sort of lead into that. We did realize that the really powerful capability of the reach that this messaging can have, Um, you know, people talk about it like this mystical thing, but it’s fairly obvious a virtual event. You don’t have to travel to it. Um, it removes some barriers to attendance. So, um, you know, I work in a division called Development and Membership Development being high dollar fundraising and membership being probably your $10 a month monthly donors, you know, we would not see a lot of those $10 donors in our ballrooms each night. So what we were able to do is create a new event that will merge both of these fundraising techniques together. Whereas we provided ways for folks who are smaller dollar donors to participate in the event at low to no cost at all way really brought in the messaging on dhe. This came at a really key time in our mission because, you know, we’re in election polit political organization, so that election was coming up and it was important to get our message is why it is possible. But we also wanted to provide opportunities for those folks who were giving us, you know, $100 well, over $100 you know, each month to participate as well. So we sort of did this thing called the Quality Captain, which is a peer to peer ambassador fundraising campaign. We allow people to set up fundraising pages and ask their friends, colleagues, co workers to support them. And really, since there’s no table for them to come and sit at, this is the spot that we said, Hey, this is where you tell your story. This is where you put your personality into this event, and it really worked very well. So

[00:10:49.54] spk_0:
Okay, let’s take a little step back just to get some mechanics down. So you’re you’re collecting cell numbers at the time of registration. Are you giving people an option thio to receive these text messages about the event, or do you just ask for the phone number?

[00:10:57.44] spk_2:
Yeah. So at the time that people registered, we did ask for their cell phone number on dhe. Then, you know, sort of told them that in participating in this event, you’re going to receive text messages. Uh, yeah. Folks that have attended in the past are pretty used to this because one cost has had a long history of doing this in with the event on dhe. You know, at any point, someone can opt out of this, but we did say, giving us your cell phone number and we will be texting.

[00:11:27.04] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Um, so let’s not Let’s not focus just on this large event, but you You’ve been doing lots of smaller events also since since March, right? Virtual events

[00:11:38.20] spk_2:
know what we did was we decided that rather than tests or organizational capacity. And do you know, 30 events across the country? We were going to use the leadership structure to focus on this one large event in September.

[00:12:05.84] spk_0:
All right? And and the event was in. I’m sorry. You just said in September September Okay? Okay. Mhm. Okay, um, Josh, anything more about the pre pre event phase? I mean, well, yeah, give me some insight. Like, how often are people getting messages before the event?

[00:12:26.54] spk_1:
You know, I think it varies with the organization, right? And I think it sort of depends on how you’re using it, right? We’re seeing, sort of. I think there’s probably too tight right there is sort of the messaging to try and get people to purchase the tickets or just to pre register. And then I think there’s the messaging sort of that happens the day of to get people engaged in the fundraiser, right? So there’s usually a set period of time when the sort of the program, right, so that virtual livestream is happening on dso. You wanna make sure that you get as many people there, you know, engaged in the live programming as possible, so I think there’s, you know, oftentimes a couple a couple of text messages that lead up to that. But then there’s usually fundraising components that are happening in tandem. Right? So we talked about ticketing, right? So that would be sort of, you know, prior to the day of to try and get people to purchase registrations. Often times we’re seeing our clients, um, set these virtual events up in tandem with online auctions. Right? And so there’s messaging around that on dhe. Then, you know, depending on the software people are using, right, as people are engaging in these online auctions right there getting automatic text messages. So the text messaging is, um you know, it sort of varies depending on what the organization is trying to accomplish at at the different points leading up to that event.

[00:13:36.94] spk_0:
Okay, okay. Eso then let’s let’s do during the event. So the event is live Now, folks are are on. Um, Mike, how many people did you have? A tw the peak.

[00:13:55.24] spk_2:
So we had I want to say we had 2000 people pre register for the event. Additionally, we live streamed the event on YouTube, Facebook and Twitter. So Let’s say we probably had about 8000 people viewing at the peak. Um, okay, Of those 8000, those 2000 pre registrants are the ones that received text messages to engage further with us.

[00:14:19.04] spk_0:
Alright, and just for a little more context, how many of the 2000 that preregistered were were, uh, had paid? Versus were the free free tier. We had

[00:14:31.25] spk_2:
about 70% that were free on bond. We had 30% that were paid.

[00:15:16.54] spk_0:
It’s time for a break turn to communications. They have relationships with journalists because of the trust they’ve built with reporters and editors and outlets like The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CBS Market Watch and The Chronicle of Philanthropy. Turn two is the first call these outlets make when they are sourcing stories on charitable giving, non profit trends and philanthropy. That means you get first crack at first class media exposure. The right turn hyphen two dot CEO. Now back to virtual event engagement. Give us a little more detail About what? What you got If you if you paid, was probably was it more than just Mike? I’m sorry. Josh mentioned swag, but what else What else did you get if you paid for the event?

[00:15:31.43] spk_2:
Yeah, we branded some really great merchandise packages. You know what’s great if the human rights campaign is We have a very strong brand that people identify with eso. We made some commemorative pieces. Um, and, you know, way sort of have different tiers. Where if you gave $35 you got a bandanna. Non. If you gave $50 you got the band and in the face mask. And the more that you gave, the more stuff that you received. So

[00:15:58.89] spk_0:
Okay, so it was OK. There was swag was ultra ultra swag.

[00:16:03.17] spk_2:
I wouldn’t say it’s like trade show giveaways. I would say stuff that you would probably walk into a store on 12 purchase. So

[00:16:10.95] spk_0:
okay. And strong brand. So loyal, loyal folks who would like to have a commemorative pieces. All right, All right, So now, Mike. All right, so during the event, what kinds of text messages or folks getting?

[00:16:26.34] spk_2:
There were two primary ways that you could support us during the event. Um, it is to bid in the auction that was online or to make a contribution. So folks were receiving text messages at key points in the run of show so that they would either a place a bit or make a you shot.

[00:16:47.64] spk_0:
Oh, what was the content for the? Was this a 45 minute event?

[00:16:52.54] spk_2:
So the event in September was a little bit longer because it was their national event. You

[00:16:58.63] spk_0:
did say that. I’m sorry.

[00:16:59.59] spk_2:
Thats one is a signature event, and people were really excited about it. So, um, you know, to your point, you know, folks that didn’t pay any money for this event, we assumed that they had a lower investment in attending at all. So those folks were invited to what I would probably call the main stage event, and that lasted for one hour. Um, for folks that were donors to the organization or who bought one of those ticket packages, that’s a clear indication that they’re very interested in seeing mawr. So they were invited to see additional content. That was 30 minutes in advance of the event. And this is really cool, because this 30 minute, um, basically VIPs section of the content was designed with, like a behind the scenes sort of look. So they got to sort of see how the virtual event was running. And some really specialized content focused on their deeper connection to the organization.

[00:17:58.44] spk_0:
Oh, including how the event was running. So they saw some backstage

[00:18:02.40] spk_2:
s. So we had some backstage elements backstage. Pass. Yeah,

[00:18:08.74] spk_0:
Okay. And what was the what was the main stage content?

[00:18:12.22] spk_2:
So the main stage content highlighted are really strong video packages we’ve even before the pandemic. We have very strong video content that’s very impactful. That really talks about the state of the movement, why you should get involved. We also pared those with a lot of celebrity messages and performances so that we were able Thio have some folks that folk that people recognized that really were boasting or cause. We have a long history of always having celebrity guests that are event. So this one was an opportunity. Instead of just seeing one celebrity guests, you got to see basically 15 of them really talking about why the cause was important.

[00:19:10.54] spk_0:
And I’m hearing that prerecorded content is valuable, takes a lot of pressure off. The folks running the show toe have to switch back and forth between live live appearances. Did did you have? Ah, do you have a mix of pre recorded in and live content or was mostly pre recorded? That’s what I’ve been hearing about pre recorded.

[00:19:14.65] spk_2:
Yeah, So I would say we’re probably about 60 40. Prerecorded content, 60%. 40% live. You know, we have found that pre recorded messages air great. But our mission sits on the cusp of history every day. And when something happens in politics, when you know who tweets something out ridiculous. We have to. We have to. We have to be responsive to that in our programming. So, um, some live, some live elements were absolutely necessary and honestly, like that takes a lot of the pressure off of us to use our crystal ball, which these days is so much more fuzzy than it used to be on be able to really resonate with folks hurt what folks heard in the news and what’s affecting them that day. But that doesn’t mean that, like the prerecorded content was bad at it just means that, you know, we were able to get some of these messages from folks that are celebrities or friends of the organization in advance and piece it all together in a way that worked. This

[00:20:12.74] spk_0:
seems like a good time for you to explain quickly. What? What HRC does for folks who don’t know. Human rights campaign. You have a lackluster host. Ah, good host would have asked you that at the beginning s, uh, but make up for my shortcomings, Would you?

[00:20:27.94] spk_2:
Yeah. So the human Rights campaign were a 501 c for charity, and what that means is that we are engaged in political work that advances the right of LGBTQ people across the country s Oh, this is a little bit different than 501 C three. Work where political work is not allowed. We are the kind of the opposite of that. You know, we still are designated as a charity. There’s some some differences with the way gifts or processed. Um, but, you know, we’re allowed to go out and say we think that this is the issue that should be report. This is the issue that should be pushed through Congress. Your local legislature. This is the This is tthe e candidate, that candidate or, you know, current, um, elected official. That’s going to do that so whereas in a 51 C three like that’s sort of off limits.

[00:21:19.41] spk_0:
Or mostly, I mean, you’re limited to the percentage of your you said at key moments. Folks got fundraising messages or maybe auction messages. How did you How did you time those to the content? What’s the relationship there?

[00:21:38.84] spk_2:
Well, we did do actually live fundraising appeal where, you know, folks were able Thio, you know, make a donation on their smartphone. And we had a large thermometer up there that showed how many people across the country were making donations. Um, and you know that that was always a really successful fundraising technique in person, and I continue to be so in the virtual world. We just had to make sure that we had the magic formula to get people to that moment in the program so that they were ready to give. There’s nothing different about that. You just have to think about what that means in a virtual world, starting with the first time that someone learns about your event,

[00:22:27.94] spk_0:
let’s lay concerns about, uh, folks maybe feeling like they got too many messages and opting out. What? What did you see in terms of people and any any time during the during the process before, during or after the show opting out of these SMS messages.

[00:22:47.14] spk_2:
So we get very few complaints about books in during the run time of the event, receiving too many text messages, I’d say maybe we get comments that there are a lot of text messages, but nobody’s mad at us. You know, folks sort of when they sign up for an event, realized that they are asking for a high level of engagement. So during the run town time of the event, um, it’s very difficult to over communicate with them. Um, you know, we have to pay attention to in advance of the event, like how often we talk to them. I would say we probably started about 10 days out with a message launching the auction on then maybe one or two reminders about what’s going on so that they could get get ready for the event, and some of these text messages are people were waiting for because it included information on how to do things like actually watch the live stream and stuff like this. So some of them were very nuts and bolts types of messages. They weren’t just Always give us money. Give us money. It’s like, Okay, you purchased two in a ticket. A ticket to this event. This is how you get in, you know? So

[00:23:47.24] spk_0:
Okay, Now, will you also emailing or this is strictly SMS.

[00:23:52.64] spk_2:
Absolutely. So we sent emails as well. You know, you’re obviously able to put more detail into email. Um, you know, I find that email is really tough these days just because there’s so much noise. You know, you’re lucky if you get somebody to even get their email on their high priority inbox and they get filtered a lot. So there are a lot of folks that do you read our emails, but there’s a lot of folks that that’s not how they found us. So they’re not receiving those emails. You gotta get really creative on how you reach out to folks.

[00:24:24.34] spk_0:
Okay? And but so the more immediate ones, like during the show that was that. I’m guessing that was exclusively texts. You weren’t sending emails that. Okay,

[00:24:34.46] spk_1:
Okay. E think One of the other avenues that we have at our availability right is also live chat, right So you have. You can sort of push that text message right to someone’s phone during, ah, virtual event. But we’re also seeing a lot of our clients engage in sort of live chat that’s like built into the page, right? So So as people are watching the converse watching the show, they’re able tohave conversations or they’re able to make comments. Or they’re able to actually engage to the school with the speakers or the organization on DSO. There’s that’s another sort of avenue we’re seeing organization sort of really harness in. Some cases were actually having, like, there’s a staff person whose sole responsibility at the virtual event is to monitor the chat and thio, address any donor questions or also to just really pump the pump. The people that are watching the show up right, like get them engaged on dhe sort of start the conversation. Uh, you know, somebody what you would do you see, like in a live event at at a table, right? People are commenting and watching and engaging on the show, and we feel like that sort of helps. It helps the fundraising in the long

[00:25:51.44] spk_0:
term. And Josh, I’m assuming one cause is a is a platform that offers this these functionalities that we’re talking about.

[00:25:59.64] spk_1:
It is Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do offer virtual virtual event center, sort of ties all that together on DSO. I think, you know, there’s there’s a couple other components depending on sort of what you’re looking, um, at accomplishing or how you want to set up your event. We definitely can help you with that, but yeah, I think between text messaging, the live chat, virtual streaming or even sort of broadcasting pre recorded videos as we just talked about, you know, we have We have tools to help nonprofit organizations make that really easy on. Really, really smooth. If they’re if they’re looking to make the move from in person toe virtual event,

[00:26:38.94] spk_0:
take us to the post event. Now, Josh, what does that messaging look like?

[00:26:43.74] spk_1:
Yeah. I mean, I think the post event really is, um we’re looking at some of those tried intrude best practices, right? Like you’re still gonna want to do the personal Thank you. Note. You’re gonna still you’re gonna look at all your data and who make who made a donation at that virtual event right Onda who made, you know, silent auction purchases on D do that outreach post event. And then I think it’s really, um, you know, if you have new if you’ve acquired new donors is part of that virtual event right, you’re gonna want to do You’re welcome. Siri’s. You’re gonna wanna take those people through very much like you would do in person event. You can get creative with social or online channels, right? You could as an organization. Do I Thank you. Video that gets pushed out through your social channels Or just, you know, it could be an instagram message or image, right? Thinking people who attended s So I think there’s ah lot in that post event, right? I think there is. A lot of it remains the same. Andi, guess right. We can also bring in text messaging, right? You could do a post text messaging as as a as a way to think, people. Uh, Mike, what did you guys dio a ce faras posted that wrap up.

[00:28:40.14] spk_2:
We always send a thank you email. We were in a unique position with our September event. Um, in that first holes, phenomenally successful, we raised over $2 million had great viewership of the Livestream. Um, and you know, we were facing the election coming up. So our campaigns and organizing team was highly interested in engaging these folks to see um, if they would doom or it was great. Is everybody who was, ah, supporter of our September event was ready to doom. Or so we gave them additional ways with the organization to connect eso that they’re not just sort of writing checks, but they’re also sort of getting the work done alongside a lot of the staff, which was really, really, really transformational for us is an organization. This year it’s It’s actually one of the things that I look at 2020 and think about. Wow, I never would have imagined that that to go like that, but it did so

[00:28:54.14] spk_0:
excellent. Did you use a lot of video afterwards? Video clips to remind folks of the experience.

[00:29:01.54] spk_2:
We had one video message from our host that we emailed and texted out on dhe. It was basically just a big thank you. Um, and I think it was a reminder that the auction was closing because it went a little bit a little bit longer and sort of last ditch. Like if you didn’t make a contribution and you’re feeling like it, then then don’t let us stop you. So, um, u m and that went really well. So

[00:29:26.84] spk_0:
and what was the I know you said raised about $2 million overall. What was the proportion of the 8000 overall who e either gave or contributed by the via auction versus non donor?

[00:29:41.60] spk_2:
You’re asking such so many data driven questions? Things,

[00:29:45.83] spk_0:
non profit radio Don’t hold that. Come on. What are you expecting? I mean, the host is lackluster, but the conversation is not Wow. Well,

[00:30:18.74] spk_2:
I mean, way clearly had about, you know, 800 people that make contributions for tickets. E would say that. I mean, this is a very hard number to quantify, because between our our ambassador fundraising campaign that the the ticket premium sales and the auction I’m making a guess and say we probably had

[00:30:21.64] spk_1:
it was a lot, right?

[00:30:23.12] spk_2:
Yeah. 2500 people making contributions at varying amounts. So

[00:30:28.54] spk_0:
just trying to set expectations. You folks, um, context, Okay,

[00:30:32.69] spk_1:
any one of the things that we’re also seeing as a lot of these virtual events are bringing in new donors for a lot of the reasons that we previously discussed. And so it’s making sure that you know what we’re advising our partners, our clients is that, you know, making sure that as you’re bringing in those new donors, that you have a way to engage them, right and that there there is. There’s a set plan to do that follow because it’s more than just the event. Follow up, right. You have new acquisitions, and now you gotta get them engaged into your mission and your messaging and make them, you know, become routine. Regular donors on DSO. I just think I don’t caution, but I think it’s just something to consider, right as you’re looking to do this, virtual that because it’s a lot easier for people to plug in and they don’t have toe, you know, go to a hotel and they can just turn on on from their from their living room, right? We’re seeing this high number of new new donors, and so figuring out the strategy around that is really

[00:31:37.47] spk_0:
important. Well, maybe not a caution admonition. You’re admonishing admonition that, and that’s consistent with face to face events. I mean, you had your you just You have to be thinking through what you’re going to do for the for the folks who came to your what used to be a face to face event, you know, they were brought by ambassadors might talk about the ambassador program. And so they were. They were brought by folks who needed to fill a table in the past. Excuse me, but they were They were new, new to the organization. And so you wanted to suss out. Are they interested in a long term engagement or they’re really just don’t wanna hear from us anymore. They were doing a friend a favor,

[00:32:10.15] spk_1:
right? Right. Well, then, yeah, and then trying to figure out how you could build that relationship, right?

[00:32:47.94] spk_0:
Uh, and, uh, you know, there was. I don’t know if I don’t know if it’s true or not, but just intuitively in the face to face events. The folks got these new acquisitions, got something out of it. They got they got cocktails and a dinner. Um, now they don’t get that. So maybe there maybe they’re more likely to be interested in the in the mission because, I mean, all right, so they’re giving up less time, but they’re getting less for it. There’s no there’s no free cocktail hour and and and dinner. So maybe I’m thinking maybe they’re mawr invested virtually even though they’re spending less time. But still, time is valuable. You know, they’re not even getting free drinks out of it. So

[00:32:57.39] spk_2:
I would say you’re onto something, tony there because folks have been looking

[00:33:00.90] spk_0:
Thank you for rescuing me. Thank you. Because I wasn’t even sure that I wasn’t sure if I waas Thank you, Mike.

[00:33:05.70] spk_2:
Folks are looking for those take action items in their homes. So if you’re able to provide those to them in conjunction with these with these with these virtual events, um, they’re much more apt to take them as opposed to, you know, they have a nice meal. 129 cocktails. And then the next day, they think that was great. I wonder if I will do that again, and then you’ll see them again next year, as opposed to the next day. They’re sort of like Okay, well, I can sit here, and I can get involved with this organization in ways that I haven’t before That you know, isn’t far off. And I think I think you’re definitely right. That that this leaves Thio, it lowers the bar for entry into further engagement with it with the organization.

[00:35:39.04] spk_0:
Yeah, all right. I think that’s a perfect place to leave it. My savior, Mike Wilkinson. Thank you for that. Deputy Director of Human. I’m sorry. Deputy Director of Events at Human Rights Campaign HRC dot Organ at HRC And Josh Meyer, Uh, senior director of marketing at one. Cause one cause dot com And at one cause Mike and Josh. Thank you very much. Good ideas. Thanks. It’s time for tony. Take two. I’m hosting a new free webinar planned giving five minute marketing. It’s kind of nice hosting my own webinars. I did one in November. We had very good turnout, so I’m hosting one this month in December. It’s another quick shot. 50 minutes on planned giving marketing how to promote the idea of planned gift to your prospects. Who are the prospects? What’s the message and how do you get it out? Multi channel. Plenty of time. Also, for your questions? Absolutely. My favorite part is questions you can register at planned giving accelerator dot com slash webinar. It’s on December 17th. I hope you’ll be with me. That is tony. Take two. Now it’s time for personalized video. It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome my next guest, Matt Barnett is Papa Bear at Bon jour. Oh, he launched from Sales Hack for his first business, where he would send every new lead a personal video to delight and surprise them. His goal is to be the next Zappos to be the most loved brand in the world. When he’s not making videos or products, he’s out tagging bandicoot ce for wildlife research. He’s with us from Sydney, Australia. The company is at bon jour, oh dot com And at Bonn jaro app. Matt Barnett. Welcome to non profit radio. A pleasure. Pleasure to have you, uh, I’ve been doing this show for 10 years over 500 episodes, and you are the the most remote guest by far before this. Yes. Uh, before, before, this was your home was from the UK.

[00:36:07.13] spk_3:
Good. Good to hear. You should get some more. Ozzy’s a lot going on here, Especially the environmental side of things raises its head. I think

[00:36:21.83] spk_0:
and and and speaking of, well, environment or animals, what are you tagging? Bandicoot? What’s a bandicoot?

[00:36:23.63] spk_3:
Have you ever played the game? Crash Bandicoot? They are nothing like that. There are small marsupial. Looked like a get a rat with a long nose but have pouch with the care of the babies. On dhe, they dig around for grubs and roots. We go out and tag Aziz the isolated population and one the headlands here, where they’ve got certain genetic traits. And we tagged those monitor them and they’re great case study for for the animal in isolation. Also collecting the wildlife rescue we have you know, we have a python living in our basement. It’s very It’s very Australian out

[00:36:59.19] spk_0:
here, marsupial. So we don’t use that word too often here. But kangaroos are marsupials as well, right? Is that

[00:37:07.53] spk_3:
you guys have you guys have them? You have a as well.

[00:37:23.13] spk_0:
Okay. Thank you for educating me about wildlife in the, uh so it’s good to have you. Good to have you from Sydney. Um, personal video. What do we What are we talking about when we say that personal video, What does it look like?

[00:37:31.43] spk_3:
Eso what it is is essentially sending quick asynchronous. They’re kind of one sided personal messages that are targeted towards individual Boehner’s in this case. So if someone dropped, if someone gives donation, then having won the team within a few hours, we can say, Hey, Mrs Jones saw that you donated $734 to the cause. Just wanna let you know how much that means to us. You know, the money is probably gonna be used here, here and here. And just again, Thank you for a while. Support on. So the idea here is very quick messages that are shot on desktop or phone. They’re not edited, nothing else. It’s just a piece comes on its directed act. An individual rather than a piece of concerts used again and again, again, generically.

[00:38:24.02] spk_0:
Okay, one time. One person, one use. And they’re probably watching it on their phone, Mostly. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I saw somewhere you call this the, uh, purple cow of donor engagement. What is that? What do you mean, there?

[00:38:26.02] spk_3:
Yeah, it’s actually it’s actually that’s actually quite fun about one of our clients because I think you’re international in the States. um se. So I guess it’s kind of a secret weapon that they used. They’ve used on a quality campaigns during the recent pandemic, because what they find is that going that little bit extra, I think I think it’s a really like linking donors to benefactors, especially if that could be done so in their in their cases. Actually send videos from schools in Africa to donors, Um, is just it’s like for three second investment. The impact it’s having on donations on be engaging lapsed owners and getting donations that don’t have to increase the nation’s isn’t saying it’s kind of off the charts they’ve ever done. I mean, it makes me it makes it might, of course. Of course it makes

[00:39:20.12] spk_0:
sense. Yeah, Andi think purple cow comes from Seth Godin that, you know you would if you saw a cow would be no big deal. But if you saw a purple cow, you know, then you’d be tweeting it. You’d be taking pictures, you know, it would stand out. So it’s a pattern interruption. We do something special on dhe. That’s that’s that seems like a feature of one of many features, like It’s something special it? Tze personalized. It’s sincere, right? I mean, you’re you’re looking at the person on your phone there speaking right to you. They’re saying your name there, thanking you. It’s it’s like it’s human.

[00:40:00.91] spk_3:
Yeah, like there’s like there’s incredible power in the name way. No, this year, I think Andi And then the other thing is that the the authenticity of it as well? I think I would suggest that authenticity is it’s a challenge day, a fake news that I said So I think I think that really is coming through, I think, especially where you know many of our experiences, our distance, you know, even prior to the world situation as it is today because the way we work gain that bit of community connection back again on doing it in a surprising, authentic, like the way it joins the light is because it’s not expected. It’s because because the bar is so low, it has a huge impact on the Barlow we could rant about again. I think it was just so much opportunity here for anyone willing to put it more often.

[00:40:47.33] spk_0:
Yeah, and we’re talking like 45 seconds or a minute, right? These air. Quick, Quick shots. Minute maximum. Okay. Is that one of your tip? Is that one of your? Is that a best practice? Keep it short.

[00:41:30.21] spk_3:
Yeah, I think there’s an engaging point of view, I think, within the women Charity Specter within down space You know, you could talk more like Absolutely, But the reality is you don’t you don’t need to. It’s not about It’s not about doing a sales picture and that, yeah, it’s just acknowledging. So it’s stopping for your danger, acknowledging, you know, a customer client a don’t know that that’s what you were doing it. It’s not even about the video. The video is the medium that that shows that you’re willing to do this, but it’s actually the time. That’s really what you give me, but you’re saying you are worth might be one of my teams. Time to stop. Just thank you in person. If the 22nd. That’s fine. Yeah, obviously you’re doing a lot of these from from the person doing the videos. Shorter means you can get them or easier as well. I mean, that’s an aspect to it. Less than a minute is all it takes.

[00:41:48.71] spk_0:
Yeah, and I like that. You know that you took the time to thank me personally in in a surprising, humane way. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you know, there’s a you know, you said I mean, there’s a there’s a there’s a connection there, you know, you’re looking right at the person you’re saying their name again. I gather, that’s I I see that in a lot of the the advice to that some other interviews you have done, you know, you got to say the person’s name mean that Zamora it’s personal. Yeah.

[00:42:07.40] spk_3:
Say the name. You know, like, if you’re able to see, you know, we’ll try to help you here. We’re trying to show you kind of actually where they’re based. What donation amount is how long they’ve been a donor. So you can customize what you say you go, the further you can. You know, I see you’ve been with us for the last three years. You know, everything you put in this on now, I think especially specifically here. This is what saying earlier is the idea of like connecting the dots so down into benefit. Like, what is that? You know, $734 done like specifically. If you’re gonna line this, there’s amazing people. It’s storytelling, you know, People go. I could see how that dollar makes difference. And quite often, you know, for me, like for us as a company way gives charities. We do this as well. The key thing is about impact. You know, we’re on enterprise cut like company. So and what we’re giving is not a million. So I’m like, right, I wanna make sure every dollar counts. So what’s the impact on this thing here? What you’re doing is you’re making it much easier for customers to see sort of donors to see the actual impact with dollar. And that’s what’s gonna make me stay with you. Be a donor for life versus, you know, switching other causes This time gets on.

[00:43:13.40] spk_0:
I saw one example where a non profit linked to a video. And so in the in the video that they sent to the donor, there was a link Thio, like a mini documentary about how the money is used and what the what the organization is doing.

[00:44:31.99] spk_3:
Yeah, and so s so you know the other part. This, obviously is that when you’re using this be this’ll kind of communication. It’s very hard, quite engaging. So you have an opportunity there. Thio, take that storytelling further, potentially ask that donut can take the next step. So in that case, what they’re saying is it Thank thank you in person, um to show you what it is go and watch this. And so what we’re doing is obviously driving traffic, but those videos of you getting a lot more views off the back of those those combined with the fact that take a long time bringing back in lapsed owners get people thio up their donations, increasing the nation’s obviously stay around. Some Chinese used that Teoh they’re available. They’re subtle. They’re like, Here’s a little bit more body or here’s a link Thio Share the story on social or, you know, here’s here’s our latest campaign we’re doing We’re building X Y Zed, please gonna be more about, you know, on inform yourself as well. So it is opportunity here. They’d be starting conversation that that’s not a it’s not a lycan endpoints. It’s the start of, you know, the next piece of engagement which can lead Thio. You

[00:44:35.06] spk_0:
wanna have some kind of a call to action, right? Have them do something beyond just beyond beyond the thank you. And so what are the use cases? Have you seen for nonprofits? Aside from donations, what other? What other uses are are nonprofits. Putting personalized video to

[00:45:04.75] spk_3:
E because it was just here is taking time with the individual donor. It tends to get so intense it used with donors and partners. So it’s being used either on on daily Drive, just as a daily habit. So anything comes in your thank you’s Ugo campaigns as well so specific drives they’re doing. We get used a lot for laps for lapsed donors. So reengaging past owners A ZX. Well, bring them back into the fold.

[00:45:14.19] spk_0:
Okay, so something like, you know, you haven’t been with us for a while. Exactly. We’d love to have you back. Here’s here’s what Here’s what our work is And here’s Here’s a link Thio what we’re working on now or something like that,

[00:45:43.59] spk_3:
Yeah. You know, obviously informations we’re just trying to do is to re engage those those users and be like, Look, this is what we’ve been doing in the last two years Since Since you’re with us, we’ve come a long way. Here’s what the impact you made. And so what I can do is to re engage me. Some of your customer base, especially ones that you know, are potentially large backers or more torrential backers to bring them back into the fold, especially especially with the younger child. Is that growing up where in the year the impact they’re making is exponential because of the movies they’re making?

[00:45:57.59] spk_0:
Um, I could see you know something like for volunteers. Do you know, if you just want to thank someone for having spent an extra 20 hours the past week doing extra volunteer work for the organization, stuffing backpacks for for Children, going back to school, where you know most people do five or 10 hours and somebody does 20 or something, You’re just a little shout out to them. I mean, it could be a simple thank you like that, right?

[00:46:55.48] spk_3:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s why we use that way. Get used internally on teams, especially when people have quite, um, probably less engaged volunteers. Nowhere like people like May. So I’m involved in a wildlife system called called wires, which which is huge really, although firefighting states in Australia where you know it’s massive again with us, where we’re not necessary is fitting underneath people above us, you know, we’re not turning up for such thanking people who are less connected as well. Like you said, the ones that go above and beyond for their work like it, it’s one Does that to you, Like you know, it’s all worth it. You know, like again, again, again, it’s connecting. What I’m doing is a volunteer to the end result. So again, it’s back to the impact Peace. Like, um, I’m making an impact. Has someone noticed the work I’m doing because you haven’t noticed? Maybe I should put my time somewhere else.

[00:47:19.18] spk_0:
Yeah, eso like anytime you would think about writing a thank you note, you could consider ah, personalized video.

[00:47:32.28] spk_3:
Yeah, I think so. And this is like it’s not the answer to everything. And this is just another arrow within. Within your quiver on. Great. There’s different ways. Toe communicates, I think, with the video. But here’s the thing. It again. It’s not about the video that the fact that you can get it across the authenticity it’s you yourself, you know that 70% of communication is in the face the face. Yet it’s not even in the tone of voice. So if you get across people love it. They connect with it better. I just think Video’s amazing medium for this. Ah, nde on the other side. It’s a lot quicker than sending. You know I’m more cost effective than than writing a thank you elements and that off. It’s definitely worth try

[00:48:42.97] spk_0:
time for our last break. Dot drives dot drives Engagement that drives relationships dot drives is the simplest donor pipeline fundraising tool. It’s customizable, collaborative, intuitive. If you want to move the needle on your prospect and donor relationships. If you want to get folks from prospect to donor, get the free demo. As you know, for listeners, there’s also a free month. Go to the listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. We’ve got but loads more time for personalized video with Matt Barnett and and you’re right. I mean, you see so much more, you know, written words. You know, that’s one Dement Well, all right, this is one dimensional too, but you can hear the person’s voice. You could see their expression when they say thank you. See their smile? It’s It’s so much more engaging than, uh than a hand written note in certain or even type you know, the word word word document on you.

[00:49:05.32] spk_3:
Show them any of the most powerful things which, which is hard to dio, is when you know, like we see people doing these videos like with kids and schools in Africa or they do it No wallowing like a wildlife center or they do it while that one the one camps with everyone about behind them. Ah, nde, You’re not just gonna shoot you like Look, look, this is this is this is the impact like check it out. You know, this is what’s happening so that that’s that’s that’s become a wow stuff. It is. It is hard because you’re always in their situations, but when you pull it off people just it compared to a leather like it’s like seeing is believing, you know,

[00:49:39.97] spk_0:
now does does the team at bon jour. Oh, that you’re the papa bear of Are they able to see all that? Can you see all the videos that people do?

[00:50:25.46] spk_3:
Eso accounts accounts of private? If we asked, So what we will do it, especially with non profit. So we personally like me and probably a few. The team members are pretty driven. We do the whole one sense. We talked about as much time as we can. We tend to get on calls and consulted held by non profits, get most system. So when when we do that is one thing we suggest is that we have permission. Can we come in and have a look on? You could use a few examples. And then what we could do is experts is kind of suggest otherwise. From what we’ve seen up to the user, Uh, obviously the only other thing is that call them privacy privacy reasons. Then myself and my CEO could do that. Otherwise it will, Private. It’s all off the record.

[00:50:49.16] spk_0:
Okay, Because I want to know if people are using this for, uh, you know, for prurient, uh, illicit in place of sexting. I’m gonna send you a I’m gonna send you a or Oh, yeah. Are you seeing any of that? The only thing we’ve

[00:50:50.07] spk_3:
seen is we have some swingers clubs.

[00:50:53.40] spk_0:
So what? Swingers clubs? Yeah. Alright, alright.

[00:50:56.28] spk_3:
However, however we talked of you. It’s not being used in that way. It’s being used as a lead generation, like business funnel. Let’s just look at it like, Well, that makes sense.

[00:51:12.46] spk_0:
So right. Okay. Ah, funnel. Okay. Again,

[00:51:13.10] spk_3:
again, again. Look like how we used during private, You know, of course, on users can choose if their recipients can share the videos. And non profits were, like, let let them share them. Because if they take it to him and say, Look what I got off the heart foundation, thanking me for my donation like that. That’s awesome. Yeah, that’s awesome storytelling. But if you want to be used in privacy, then we could lock that down.

[00:51:39.26] spk_0:
Oh, yeah, These are right. Incredibly terrible. Yeah, yeah. Um and this is this is you know, this is also consistent with what I’ve had a lot of guests say, and I’ve said on this show many times that that in doing production that in doing video, uh, sincerity always trumps production values. You know, you don’t have to have a fancy Mike. You could do this. You could You could do this walking to your car. It doesn’t take fancy studio when it’s genuine. And sincere

[00:52:02.45] spk_3:
like like Abbott’s, like real life, you know, like like like Like, who do you trust more? The guy in the perfect tailored suits or the guy wearing a T shirt has got fun with enthusiasm, you know, like like shake your hand and hugs you. I’m gonna go with that guy every time, like it’s the same thing, you know?

[00:52:18.35] spk_0:
And are you seeing, uh, Mawr use of this during the pandemic? E mean people are so much more accustomed to seeing each other by video. Now are are you seeing a burst since, uh, since March?

[00:53:16.75] spk_3:
Yeah, like I think it’s helped. I think it’s helped in terms people overcoming you know, the Fear video, which I think comes from the idea that video has been the car medium of film for so long that you put on on on a pedestal. Now, realizing it’s it’s not that it’s just the same as having a coffee. So I think we’ve people using Zoom people getting a video calls. Mawr has obviously made people realize that actually videos easy on dso. There’s a mental pieces become over. I think there’s also a challenge that living in a bit more to disconnect environment the moment we’re struggling. Thio connect Obviously not with team members on my partners and do things like this, but with their customers as well. And so we’ve been adopted, like in that space and videos being more adopting that space to help keep those relationships going where you couldn’t. But you can’t have the coffee or or go to the conference today. You know,

[00:53:18.15] spk_0:
um, want o share a good client story, somebody that another one where someone used it successfully and saw an increase in gifts or volunteering. Whatever. Yeah, yeah, we just

[00:54:00.06] spk_3:
we just that given we just doing that with the Heart Foundation here in Australia, which is a large organization s made a lot of work in schools in the big A little school fundraising. So they did two things. Uh, they went out and they did what he said. They congratulated the Children who got the biggest fundraisers. So the whole team went out on just engaged with those high performing kids from organization directly, whereas normally they would always be kept a kind of arms on the other than it did in the way that where they were, where the kids were raising funds was through skipping competitions on trying to kind of crazy skipping competitions. And so, it turns out, quite your team on the heart foundation, our next level skippers, where they’re doing tricks and stunts. And so those team, we’re sending our videos through the kids in schools being like Okay, right, whoever you could do this and basically challenging them to kind of come with crazy stuff. And so, like, really engaging with again directly with kids rather than just the teachers, which ultimately they have been generated $45 from just one of the schools. I think the private previously with them $5000 because they got a LH the Children themselves so much more engaged that it became a real driver. Whereas there wasn’t one of those fundraising things you do at school. So it’s interesting again. Is that connection between the cause and the people doing the fundraising?

[00:54:55.94] spk_0:
You’re seeing Children, too? I mean, that’s a heart string. Yeah, Heartstring puller.

[00:54:57.64] spk_3:
Yeah, exactly. Um,

[00:55:00.54] spk_0:
um what else? What else should we be talking about? That I I haven’t asked you.

[00:56:32.93] spk_3:
I think like so. It’s just like beyond your personal video, but I think just the idea off personal. So the idea of personalization of scale, the idea of taking a little more time with customers like we haven’t here that way where we say automate process, but not relationships. But I think I think you take that into into any aspect you’re doing in terms of customer engagement or in terms of marketing on. So I think where on where you can, where you can start to personalize your experiences and your customer experience, like your your donors or your partners, or to your or anyone who engage in the organization, you are going to get better results. You know, I suggest you probably get a return on any of the extra time that you put in. So I think, you know, we start to come past the stage where you send the yearly update and you’re like, This is what the fund has done this year, and these impacts were made to yeah, as donors like, we want to know what our dollars are doing because we have so much choice because we’re being picked all the time to invest in different areas way do bounce around, especially my generation. So you look kind of like between e. Guess Young, young, um, young Corporates, young people making decent money, who have now, for the first time, I got my to spend on causes they’re passionate about. I’ve got on there’s good money to spend where we’re gonna put it. It’s gonna be hard to know. So it’s just that way you could pursuant experiences and you connect people with people like ultimately, If that happens, the decisions easier for the benefit of me. Because I go What I know these people. Therefore, I believe my money will go further here. That’s not obviously necessary. True, but that’s that’s how you feel. So I think, you know, the more we could do personalized customer experience, customer journeys. Being through video will be it from any other means on. There’s a lot of smart systems out there now that start to tell you more information about your donors so you could do that. I think the more you connect the end benefactor to the donor as well, it’s super important. You know, You see this doing on products now where if you buy products that are fundraising, you could look at it and it’ll tell you the journey of the dollar and where it goes, the more you could do that. Connect the dots, which in space technology is a lot easier. I would argue again, the mawr likely here you have a of keeping donors for no, not a year, but 10 15 2030 years.

[00:57:37.63] spk_0:
And based on how you make them feel, you know, there’s a lot of research that says people people are less likely to remember what you tell them, but they’re they’re very likely remember how you make them feel. So if you make you make them feel special by doing personalized special things, like notes or videos or, you know, connecting connecting them to their to the impact of their dollar, that that’s all that’s all feelings and that stuff is in the heart. Once, once we hold a cause in our heart, then our our brain will say, you know, go ahead and make a donation.

[00:59:25.42] spk_3:
Yeah, way give, because it makes us feel good. Like we’re satisfying human urging, you know of doing good. And have you looked at it, You know, from, uh, whether you’re, uh, wanna be a possible or negative about it. You’re like it. We’re doing it. We’re doing it for a personal reason. I’m doing it because it makes my dolphins go. I feel good, like I could get back eso you need trigger those on storytelling on connection does that. You know where things would have worked 10 years ago because now there are so many causes and so many systems, and so just just generally get the average person gets 65 notification today from emails and SMS. Everything else like How do you cut through that? Like it’s hard like everyone’s, You know, you’re not just competing against other nonprofits. You’re competing against every single person who is contacting this individual ornate, multiple times daily basis. So you need you know it’s not. It’s not whether you could do better than that. It’s not whether you can get the attention over another cause. It’s whether you could get attention over other businesses and everything because the dollars could go anywhere on That makes it incredibly hard. But I think with with with good causes, you have this massive benefit where you are like like like like you pull heart strings like no else can like you have these stories, you have these stories. You have these people, you have the good things of doing. Just how do you get that to the individual?

[00:59:28.02] spk_0:
Interesting when you say, you know you’re not only competing with other nonprofits, but also businesses. But also you’re competing with every app on the person’s phone that that for which they have notification set, you know, So that could be their stock. That could be their their their their stock trading account. Uh, it could be their bank. It could be their newspapers. You’re competing with every everything that’s tugging at their attention. But here, you know, you do something personalized, sincere, genuine, quick shot 45 seconds. And it’s it’s something unique in their day in their weak easily.

[01:01:14.31] spk_3:
Yeah, I think it s I think communities play a big part here, and this is well, so building an active private community for for everyone involved because that’s where conversation start to happen. Because I think there’s a There’s another piece I like RL interesting. Yeah, which I think most realizations don’t do the best job off. And this is around the advocacy side so often we will focus on on the new donors. And, like when on the next one, like it’s much easier to grow donations from your existing community was than his mom from new ones. I think the way to do this is to make U M. Into what I call super fans. Yeah, this applies to business. That’s the challenge. That’s everything else you want, people who are going to rave about you and talk about you. And to do that, you need to consistently engage them. I always think about with its about making lifetime. Dana is not not single donors. So if you’re not running an active community or if you’re running a community just like it’s not just about talking, it’s a two way peace. If you’re not making this active, I would challenging to look heavily at that because that’s where you can make your connections happen on the quiet to scale as well. Um, so I think a lot of times they don’t do a good enough job. This it tends to be a lot of one way Commons versus two ways on again. I look at that. I’m like this opportunity because most of us are not in many communities, we get lots of all my stuff we’re not want to in the community. You instantly start to cut through that because, you know, you get medications for my community and your prioritize those. Like if you know, if you’re if you’re small, if you’re starting up, it could be a WhatsApp group. It could be that simple, but looking for ways to cut through with something, that person is going to keep this a priority and know that whatever comes from that is one they’re gonna open.

[01:01:47.81] spk_0:
And that’s when you get to the stage where they start missing it. If they’re not hearing from you, it’s been a couple of days. There’s been a week or something. I haven’t, You know, I haven’t heard from this. You know this group where you know where they’ve been. So

[01:02:00.00] spk_3:
if that happens, it happens. You’ve done it.

[01:02:57.90] spk_0:
That’s the gold standard. Oh, yeah, that’s a that’s a gold standard. That’s Ah, that’s Ah, triple play. But I’m not very good at sports, but that’s Ah, that’s Ah, home touchdown. So, yeah, when they start missing you, um All right. All right. Went thio. I feel like way we’ve given, like, enormous motivation for why, why people should look a TTE not only personalized video, but just personalized action. Personalized engagement. You know, we talk so much about the community talking about sex segmentation, but this is segmentation to the smallest possible degree, the most segmented to the individual, not to the collect, not to a collective of of 50 or 100 or 5000 who are devoted to petition signing for for your cause, you know. But this is the individual. After they’ve signed, it’s it’s it’s hyper personalization, hyper segmentation, which is called personalization, I think.

[01:03:36.30] spk_3:
Yeah, yeah, I think in order to tackle this again. So my suggestion is it may seem overwhelming, but you need systems that are quick to do so They need to work out the time you put in. But you also need need need toe like bring in, bring in anyone involved in the cords. So talk about, for example, be take myself his involvement in the wildlife rescue. Face it to May. Would you mind thanking you? Don’t of a day like sure. Yeah, like so. Like use your use Anyone who’s volunteering like get him to help us. It’s like you have a I think it becomes easy If you could spread it amongst enough people. The other thing is obvious to say, segment out and go like not all donors are equal. Maybe in terms of like value their big in terms like the dollar valuables in terms of the influence and that kind of reach they have as well. We’re engaged. They asked, may be focused on those first start with those and then start being down. Um, yeah, the smart ways to do it. So like like anything start small. If it works and you essentially get return on investment much, I hate that term. Then then you could start to work out how to scale it more because it was working like Like it doesn’t matter like it will scale. It will pay for itself. Just take a small step, But don’t get too overwhelmed. Begin.

[01:05:16.99] spk_0:
All right, Matt Barnett, Papa bear a tw bon jour Oh cos at bon jour oh dot com And at Bonn Juro App. Thanks very much, Matt. Good to talk to you. Pleasure. Thank you. My pleasure. Next week, your annual report as a marketing tool. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you. Find it at tony-martignetti dot com. Beseeches Still good We’re holding on to that not losing beseech were sponsored by turn to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot c o and by dot drives Prospect to donor simplified tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant for a free demo and a free month. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty, be with me next week for non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for August 5, 2016: Multichannel Fundraising Survey & Smart Email Marketing

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Peter Panepento: Multichannel Fundraising Survey

Which channels are earning nonprofits the best returns on their fundraising dollars and where will investment expand in 2017? Consultant Peter Panepento authored The Chronicle of Philanthropy’s report, “Fundraising In A Multichannel World.”



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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have a listener of the week pulawski joshy. She messaged me that non-profit radio was one of her first shows when she started working in the sector and she loves my solitude video more about that in tony’s, take two so pulawski thank you, olivia joshy, thank you for being with us and congratulations on being our listener of the week. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I get hit with a bad case of mathos thomas iesus if i merely smelled the fishy idea that you missed today’s show multi-channel fund-raising survey, which channels are earning non-profits the best returns on their fund-raising dollars and where we’ll investment expand in twenty seventeen. Consultant peter panepento authored the chronicle of philanthropy is report fund-raising in a multi channel world and smart email marketing it’s one of the successful channels and it takes more than good copy. Our panel from the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference takes on the full process of a successful email campaign. They are tiffany neil, partner at lautman, maska, neil and company, and and crowley, vice president of membership in online strategy for human rights campaign between the guests on tony’s take two solitude and major announcements that i should’ve made last week. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling not your seventh grade spelling bees for charities, we be spelling dot com glad to welcome back peter panepento he’s, a freelance writer and principle for panepento strategies, a communications consultancy working with non-profits foundations and companies that serve the sector. He’s, a former managing former assistant managing editor with the chronicle of philanthropy, you’ll find him at panepento dot com and at p panepento peter panepento welcome back. Great to talk to you, tony. And glad teo. Glad to be back on the show. A pleasure. Pleasure. I love your name. Because it’s so musical and a literate ivo i just love it. Peter panepento i like saying very, very fortunate with monica. I didn’t like it growing up, but i love it. Oh, yeah. Now the obliteration. Of course. I love liberations. But you know it’s, just it’s. Very musical. I love it. And ah, little italian pun, eh? Bread pento is repent. So did you know you have? Surely i’m sure that you’ve surely you’ve translated your name before having you. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So repentant bread. I don’t know. Have you sinned? And you’re baking bread in independence or what? I don’t know what that means. But i think that for another podcast completely, i think so. You don’t talk about well, okay, then. That was in that. In that case, we talk about this for twenty minutes, then on multi-channel fund-raising gets about three. Okay. Um, you know, i love move your name. Okay. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. You know, i mean, it’s always great when we get martignetti together. It’s a great combination of names that’s true and don’t i love the way you pronounce martignetti thank you. Thank you. Um, so, multi-channel fund-raising this, uh, this report based on a survey tell us about this. Yeah. So i started working with the chronicle late last year to take a real close. Look at how non-profits and specifically fund-raising departments are making, uh, making sense and investing in the explosion and the number of channels that they have at their disposal for fund-raising aziz. You know, and i’m sure a lot of listeners know we’ve we’ve really seen ah, really expansion of a number of options that fund-raising shops have to talk, teo acquire and solicit donors, you know, from everything from email, social media, online’s mobile. I’m all of these new channels are giving folks a lot of options, and there were also rendering a lot of other channels are absolute, so we wait really set out to try tio talked to non-profits and survey them and find out how they’re shifting their reese is and which which of these channels are more most successful to them? And what we did was we ended up working with a survey firm, campbell rinker, out of california, and we got responses from nearly five hundred non-profits of all sizes. Hoo hoo provided some really interesting insights on how these spring and what they might be in the fundraisers. Did you do cement? Irv uses part of this too? Yes, once we got the results back, i i reached out and spoke teo quite a few fundraisers across the country, from both local small organizations to some really big national charities to okay, cool now, um the headline is that the the old school one toe, one solicitation, my voice just cracked like i’m fourteen again hyre is ruling in in terms of effectiveness, yes, and i would imagine it doesn’t surprise a lot of folks to know that even with all of these different channels that we have that the most effective and the most popular form of fund-raising still is the one on one half, and when we we spoke to fundraisers about you know which channels they used the most and which ones were most effective, we found that personal solicitations were not only the most still the most popular and more than nine out of ten charity say that personal solicitations are are a part of their fund-raising mix now, but that also that they are still the most effective in terms of r a y and in fact, seven out of ten organizations in the survey said they’re becoming more effective than in the past. So with all of these different channels that we have to communicate with each other now, and maybe even because of that, all of these channels exists. Um, one on one the you know, the art. Of a person asking another person directly that they, you know, presumably built a relationship with remains the most effective form of fund-raising now, this does this include online one toe, one like i’m we’re doing a, you know, a peer-to-peer campaign does that does that include this? Or is this familiar? Peer-to-peer separately and okay here was actually did very well as well. In fact, half of the organizations in the survey said that peer-to-peer fund-raising is becoming a more effective form of fund-raising for them than it has been in the past, you know, it it doesn’t quite have the same level of popularity that personal solicitations do, but you know, those peer-to-peer campaigns and and, you know, the act of having, you know, one donor askanase other donor for for support for their favorite charity is is has been and is continuing to be very effective, okay? All right, i got you. All right. So the so the personal solicitation we’re talking about is the old school calling on the phone or meeting and and making an ask right that we’re talking about personal, so okay, okay, alright. Cool. That’s the headline, but there’s a lot more. To cover s o, peter and i were gonna go out for a break. When we come back, we’ll cover all the rest of this multi-channel fund-raising survey. Stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love right this minute, and there are a lot from texas, so i wanted very much thank j c and joan, the hosts of the previous show. Twenty first century entrepreneur forgiving non-profit radio, a shout out that was very gracious of them and it looks like a lot of their texas listeners hung in there. Houston, austin, sugarland live listener loved to you, let’s. Bring it right here to new york, new york, new york, bronx, new york, queens, new york live listener love to all five boroughs, even though staten island and and who’s, who we missing staten island in brooklyn, are not not with us this minute. They certainly have been in the past. So extend the live love even to the to borrow is not represented and focus on the three that are bronx, manhattan and queens gillette newjersey live listener loved to new jersey that’s ah that’s fairly new i think charlotte, north carolina love north carolina live listen loved head they headed there and lincoln tonight oh, lincoln’s in north carolina also. Thank you. Cool love. North carolina, you know, i’m on emerald isle ah, three weeks out of each month, let’s, go let’s, go abroad. Mexico, mexico, monterrey, mexico live listener loved to you. That would be a good afternoon. So we would say, argast artis, when a star dies precisely romania, iran, cambodia live. Listen, her love to you, love, ah, cambodia, don’t think we’ve seen you before in southeast of asia. Welcome on biron and romania. Also korea, you know, always so, so gracious, south korea, always with us on your haserot comes a ham nida and china always always at least one from japan, although i mean china, although we’ve got multiple today, ni hao and multiple from japan as well, so grateful for that live listen love to japan, konnichi wa. Peter panepento we’re going to get to the rest, i mean, don’t forget the affiliate affections and podcast pleasantries, of course, but peter panepento is waiting patiently, their hearing, breathing heavily science coming durney live listeners does this clown has give it a rest already in romania, they know you were a man of so many languages well, so many listeners, yes, only a few languages, but but there’s, this this show cut across states, counties, continents, we’re everywhere. All right, um, okay, anything else you want to say about the personal solicitation being the most way we covered that you think, well, i think i think one one point i thought of during the break there was that, you know, as i spoke to some fundraisers about this, i think one of the takeaways on this is just the fact that with people being so tied to their, you know, mobile devices and so connected online that they actually really appreciate the personal connection mohr when they can get it, and that is actually, you know, working in the favor of organizations who are investing in, uh, more on the ground face-to-face fund-raising there, you know, donors really appreciate that x for personal touch probably now more than ever before, and that applies also to millennials. I’m finding that, um, the misconception there is a misconception that millennials don’t want to meet anybody, they just want to do all their giving and shopping online and, you know, they love events they love coming out now, i’m not sure about the personal solicitation meeting, i’m not i’m not going quite that far, but in terms of gathering’s face-to-face meetings, events, you know, as long as the thing is fun, they love getting out absolutely and a big thing for millennials to is authenticity and there’s nothing more authentic than you know, shaking somebody’s, hand and looking him in the eye and talking teo and that’s that’s a really i value that the millennial generation is bringing to the table on dh articulating quite a bed. And i think as that generation matures and they actually become more likely to be ableto give it higher levels, i think those personal solicitations air going toe going to continue to be really important for those dahna relationships i get so many invitations for just usually une male coffee or lunch coffee line you know from people from millennials twenty thirties on, and i’m happy to do it, you know? I mean, if they want to sit with fifty four year old that’s their life, you know? So what am i going? No, but there’s a misconception that we need to beat that down. And the last thing about personal solicitation, i see you have this outstanding graphic about future investment. And ninety nine percent of charities that answered are goingto either spend the same or invest more in personal solicitations next year. That’s absolutely right. And, you know, that is really on an important stand, i think. It’s it’s, um, almost, you know, almost surprising just how overwhelming that is and help those two thirds of them are actually planning to increase their investment. And in personal solicitations, nominally, they’re investing in that they’re going to be increasing their investment in it, which is which is really powerful. Yeah. Agree. All right. Excellent. Um, direct mail doing very well. Yes. Direct mail. One of the really interesting things that came out of this survey. Wass the shift in attitude toward direct mail. I remember. And we had some discussions about this. A few. Years ago to tonia, i remember that, you know, direct mail is is, you know, in danger getting phased out of some organization. Were you really wondering whether or not they should just kill the of the the direct mail letter in investing all digital? And what we’re finding is that direct mail is not only remaining the third most popular channels for multi for multi-channel investment, but that it’s also ah channel, in which organizations are starting to step up their investment again after years of scaling back in it. Um, we found that almost a third of organizations that they’re planning to invest more resource is and direct mail over the next year by-laws than they have in the previous year and and that’s actually at a faster rate than things like email in social media in terms of increased investment over the next year. Yeah, you have a quote in the in the study that its still a world where people were thinking print first and digital second in planning campaigns. Yeah, i mean, even with all of the increased investment that we found in digital channels, latto you know, direct mail remains really, really popular and builders still respond to what a particularly the more mature donors, too, you know, are used to giving that way and remain a very important audience for non-profits so important to recognize our our top two channels, our traditional what might have been called dinosaurs, you know, years ago as social media emerged, but they’re not dinosaurs, they’re not. If they’re dinosaurs are not extinct yet because they’re talking about we’re talking about face-to-face and direct mail? Absolutely. And and and not only are they not going extinct, they’re they’re making a bit of a comeback. So what does that make them? Uh, i don’t know what we have. Ah, was i mean, i know that maybe they were the share of ah share. Tio that’s. Very good. I just picked up one of her dvds a couple months ago with this she’s got his flamboyant pink outfit and the cover the dvd is, is it called a hologram? Or you you turn it, you know, you you turn in the light and you get different images of her. I think i picked up for a light. Well, sorry share. I picked it up for like, a book, but i had to i had to just have it for the cover. I loved it. I loved. Um okay, so maybe the share. Yeah. Um all right, so don’t abandon traditional methods. Ok? So let’s move into the more current and social media also strong also strong. Not always this strong, but organizations are really continuing. Teo double down on their investment in social media. Um, we sell that sixty percent of organizations over the last two years have put more resources into social media, and they’re reporting that they’re planning to continue to to to invest more in it. More than half of the groups in the survey said they plan to invest maurin social media over the next year. And this really comes despite the fact that for a lot of organizations, they’re they’re having a hard time really articulating what the return on that investment is. Yes. So they’re not necessarily seeing direct dollars coming in the door through social media. But they are still thing enough value and where they want to continue to invest more in it as a as a donor acquisition tool and dahna communication stole. I see ninety seven percent are going to spend the same or mohr you said, as you said, over half spending mohr and, like forty four percent spending the same why why is it still getting increased investment? Um and so much attention so much the share of resources if we are having so much trouble identifying r a y well, it’s interesting, i spoke to a number of organizations, including some really sophisticated groups like make a wish and and the less association who say that even if they can’t put a direct dollar figure on what’s coming in, they’re they’re noting that social media is a great channel of bringing new people on their websites and getting them to sign up for e mails and other things like that. So that’s one thing and other is that it’s becoming increasingly necessary for organizations, particularly on facebook, to get noticed, you actually have to invest in promoting their posts and, you know, actually, you know e-giving facebook and lincoln and twitter um essentially at you no at investment, tio have their post get noticed by doing that, not only are they getting more clicks and like, they’re also getting some better, some better metrics back from those platforms, in terms of how people are engaging with their posts to sow some of that, i think is out of necessity, you know, you can’t keep the same level of investment and get the same results on facebook if your charity anymore. So, you know, some groups are putting ad money against it, where in the past they weren’t doing that right? I hear a lot of frustration about facebook because the organic reaches so small now and so much smaller than it used to be, and and you do have to put ad money against it if if you want to keep that reach high. Yeah, it’s purely i hear a lot of frustration, okay? And another part of your message is that there are other ways of measuring success besides strict return on investment. So if you’re getting more people signing up your email list, if that’s an action that you’re asking for, you’re seeing more unique visitors to your sight may be to the donation page on your site, even if they’re not translating to donations there are there are other methods of measuring return on social media other than strict dollars absolutely, and that’s i think the really interesting point that and and way of expressing it, tony, is that, um, you know, it may not lead to a direct donation, but those those folks that you’re engaging with on social networks are, you know, that that might be their first weigh in the organisation for them to be communicating with you in other ways, and you may actually be getting success through some of the other fund-raising channels as a result of you making that initial contact with a potential donor on a social network. You have you have a graphic in the survey that that covers the different methods of measuring success besides the ones we’ve talked about growth over previous efforts, long term donorsearch al you net yield per donor. So those are some other method, good, right? Right? And, you know, in on top of things, just like revenue raised and donors acquired, which are, um, kind of the obvious wants some of these other ones are metrics that organizations are starting to use mohr regularly to try tio to figure out how these different channels are performing and how they can make better decisions about where to invest later, yeah. You know, it’s, just yeah, you have to be able to say more than, you know, you just got to be there, but i mean, intuitively you do because there are just so many billions of people on facebook on four billion or five billion or something twitter, i think is over a billion users, um, you gotta be able to say more than that, it’s just it’s a lot of people, and so i like that the survey got moves like seven different six different methods of measuring return, not just yet. I think that, you know, what we’re starting to see is that organizations are becoming more sophisticated and how they’re measuring how they’re measuring these different things, and they’re putting mohr effort into actually trying tio better understand, you know, dahna behavior and their own in their own efforts at acquiring and, you know, building relationships with donors, how would you characterize non-profits as a group, we’re generalizing in terms of technology, adoption, do you feel like they’re slow to adopt? They wait for the corporate side to do it? Or do you feel like they jump in a little quicker, but not fully understanding and maybe that’s ah, maybe that’s to their detriment. That’s an interesting question, and i think, you know, if if you when you asked that question five or ten years ago, i think the consensus in the non-profit community was that, you know, that we were slow to adopt and that we were really reticent to to invest in new things and trying new things with technology, i think that’s starting to shift, i don’t necessarily think that we’re, you know, as a zone industry, we’re going to be rivaling silicon valley in front of of our willingness. Tio tio, jump in feet first, things that we don’t really know online, but, you know, there’s been enough success out there, and there have been enough for thinking organizations that have in front runners on some of these technologies that that it’s, you know, that the case can be more easily made toe boards and too, and the top leadership in organizations that it’s worth experimenting a little bit with new things and trying them out, but seeing where they go and you know, the digital capacity is still probably not where it needs to be with a lot of organizations but it’s a lot deeper now than it was even a few years ago. Andi, you only have to look at things like the growth of of interest in the non-profit technology conference every year and just the amount of social media and online activity that’s happening across the sector now. Let’s, talk about mobile, you call mobile a conundrum. Yes, um, and this was an area where a number of groups actually dove in and tried to invest in mobile and text to give early on and found out that they weren’t really getting the results they wanted to. So they’re starting to scale back a little bit in in their investment and mobile. Now. So, you know, of the groups that are actually using mobile, only forty percent say that their efforts were more effective in the past year than they were yeah, in the past year than they were the previous year they’re started there’s a really, um, there’s a real struggle out there for organizations to really figure out how to best use mobile other than using it as a you know, kind of, i know of ah, you know, a modified way of looking at their websites. There, there aren’t a whole lot of really successful mobile e-giving campaigns that that organizations air finding to be useful, important to point out that only thirteen percent of the respondents are actually using mobile and of those of those platform, you know, you know, in talking to organizations for the reporting on this, we’re finding that groups are finding some pretty creative ways to use mobile, even if they’re not using it as a standalone channel. Um, i spoke tio, the top fundraiser at the quietness institute in rochester, new york, which is a which is a private high school there, and they have actually done away with their traditional phone, a phones where a woman i would gather and do a night of calling teo their classmates and i have kind of replaced it with almost like a texting and facebook base kind of outreach for using the same idea everybody gets together with their mobile phones that starts texting classmates that they knew and hitting those short donations or or messaging them through facebook on their mobile phones. Hill yes, she didn’t count that as mobile fund-raising but it’s still using mobile devices for for, you know in-kind of using the unique powers of mobile devices fund-raising and hybrid ing that with the peer-to-peer za peer-to-peer ask itjust happened, happens by text exactly exactly so in some cases, we’re seeing these channels, you know, maybe falling in one bucket, but but they actually utilize technology that might be included in another bucket of in terms of how they’re measured. Peter, we have just a little less than a minute left, and i want to wrap up with the management of all these multi-channel methods is now multi department that’s, right? That’s one of the other interesting storylines coming from the surveys we asked, you know which department is in charge of all of these different all of these different channels? And in which cases is that more than one? And you know, by and large, you know, the development shop is still very engaged with with all of these different channels, but, you know, depending on the channel, usually between a quarter to assist of them are being managed by multiple departments means that there’s some, you know, they’re both being held accountable for the results of of those campaigns and it’s becoming a much more collaborative. Environment now where the development of the development department really needs to be working a lot more closely with you, with communications, with marketing, with technology to make sure they’re being success. Peter panepento follow this guy on twitter for pizza because you’re gonna learn a lot at at p panepento and he’s at panepento. Dot com peter, thank you so much. Thank you. And the surveys also free and for download that philanthropy dot com slash multi-channel fund-raising for anybody who wants to check it out in more detail philanthropy dot com slash multi-channel fund-raising cool. Thank you again. Thanks a lot, tony. Smart email marketing is coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got free research for you. Also another free research report. It’s their report optimize your donor pipeline. You need to raise more money. You need a fat pipeline of pipeline that’s a pipeline of potential donors coming in that’s a piece today. This report is going to help you do that. It’s going, build, retain optimize your daughter pipeline it’s free optimize your donor pipeline it’s at pursuing dot com and then click resource is we’ll be spelling again. You need to raise more money host we’d be spelling spelling bee. This is not your mother’s spelling bee this’s, not even your seventh grade spelling bee. 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Here is my interview on smart email marketing, a very important channel from the non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference at the convention center in san jose, california second session of the of the conference and i’m with tiffany, neil, and and crowley tiffany city closest to me is a partner at lautman, maska, neil and company and and crowley is vice president of membership and online strategy for human rights campaign. Ladies welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Your session topic is what you mean. There’s more to email, more to mail than just writing copy for a fund-raising email so we’re gonna go way beyond just good copy out let’s see, tiffany, what you believe is the dahna shortcoming that a lot of non-profit or shortcomings latto non-profits have around email marketing. I think a lot of organizations spent a lot of time thinking about that first message that people are going to receive, and they don’t take a lot of time thinking about the total experience that that person is going to have once they choose to engage with that email so they don’t think about it in terms of the supporter, the donor who’s receiving that message, they just say, i am sending this wonderful email and they will just do exactly what i want there’s a whole process, there’s a whole process begins within gay exactly through your well written email. Exactly talk a little about subject line, etcetera, but yeah, we want the whole lot the whole process. Exactly. I mean, i can ignore every email in my inbox if i want to that’s my prerogative, and i think a lot of times non-profits just assumed because human rights campaign, which is a wonderful organization, is sending a message that everyone’s going to open it and respond. And did you feel that you needed some help around your email channel? I think we’ve been very fortunate in our ability, tio send out e mails and get people to respond, but that’s, mostly because our issue has really been on the front lines of of the, you know, what’s happening in the last few years, but i do believe it is getting harder to get folks to open our emails and engage once we’ve gotten past marriage equality, the response rates were starting to see a slight decline, okay? And you do have i mean, it seems like human rights campaign would have headlines nearly every day, if not way have refugee crises around the world, and i’m just scratching the surface you work there, but now there’s a lot to talk about. Yes. Although hrc only works on lgbt issues in the u s o okay, all right, so then refugee crisis worldwide is appropriately okay, very good. Still all right? So after marriage equality, okay, so then you didn’t have so many headlines drop correct? Yeah, just got a little bit more of a challenge, although right now we’re experienced experiencing a lot of states, trying to revoke a lot of the rights that have been voted in so it’s, still very pertinent and happening and that’s, our job is to get people toe, stay with us and engage in the same level that they had been. Okay, let’s, stay with you. And i’m sure we first approach are thinking about une mail campaign that were you want? Yeah, i mean, i think it depends, is it is it fund-raising or is it sit advocacy? And if it’s advocacy is that because something is currently going on right now that you need to engage your list in? And if the answer to the advocacy question is yes, then we always ask ourselves, what is the theory of change if we send out this e mail and we ask arlis to do something? What is going to come out of their action? So for instance, we are in the middle of trying to get congress, in particular the judiciary committee, to hold a hearing for the vacancy of the supreme court, and we’ve been asking our list too directly email mitch mcconnell and hold a hearing so there’s a clear theory of change there. So if it’s fund-raising and you guys, you know, organizations feel like they need to send out e mails to raise money is which we all do then really think about what the messages and his tiffany alluded to earlier, not only what the message is initially, but what the visuals are, what comes after they send in money? Is there a proper thank you, there’s? Just various steps to the process. Okay, again, a long process, but sounds like starting with what is your goal exactly? Call ultimately there’s some call to action that’s, right? Is it? Fund-raising isn’t volunteering write a letter. Writing is calling. Raise it. Signing a petition? Yeah. Calling the governor. Yeah, that that’s exactly right. I mean, we really stop and think about every situation and if something is needed and we feel like we can make a difference in particular in a state, for instance, then then we’re going to do it. Okay, okay. All right. So, tiffany, after we’ve got our goal set, where do we go? Where we go from there? Well, i think where i mean, really where it starts from us. Who is that message going to be from? And i think that that sender is something that, especially with hrc, we spend a lot of time thinking about in testing different senders to make sure that when someone’s looking at a bunch of emails in their inbox, they want to open this it’s it’s from somebody that they feel has something to tell them that they need to respond to sew that it’s that’s the first part is to figure out who’s this message going to be from okay, who it’s from and i guess maybe this is subsumed in what you were saying and but who’s it going to? Yeah, we’re subset of our constituency is going to get get this. All right? We’ve got we’ve got our center. We’ve we’ve tested and testing of course, important throughout this process. How does that work if you’re trying to listeners tryingto inaugurate a campaign. How do you test them and kick off at the same time? Well, it’s, i mean, these work together it’s great with a sender. Because we can send ten percent of the message out and send half of that ten percent one centre and half of that ten percent another center in whichever sender gets more opens. Then we send that out to the rest of the constituencies. So those kind of things we contest really in real time so that we know we can get the immediate response subject line forward, subject lying falls in that for the preview text. The thing that people see in their inbox before they actually opened the message. Those first few words, all of those things we test on the outbound message, especially with things that are time sensitive. We want to get those test results back quickly so that we can implement it. And if people need to act quickly, we get we get to them right away. We spent a minute on something that’s. A little bit of a peeve. Which is seeing in that preview to view this message better, right? If it’s not rendering right in your mobile version. Click here. Right? Is that a terrible waste of landscape? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I know what it’s called. What? The preview pain. Okay, and actually we in our presentation today, we actually touch on that because i don’t think it’s one of those things that organizations are moving so quickly, maybe they haven’t thought about that the experience, but for us, hrc our list is younger than a lot of other organizations and therefore there’s ah hyre usage of their mobile when they’re reading our emails. So we do everything mobile optimized, figuring that our folks are reading it on the phone. They’re moving quickly. We’re going to say it in the preview text what we want them to do or what the issue is, and at that point, they’re going to decide to open it and go take the next step or not, when you have your session, would you please tell the audience that this ticks me off? Well known, everyone will say, tony is very annoyed by that. Come back with one thirty four and render your your support for a proper preview checks but it’s one of the things that hrc does well is there’s an army of testers, and every tester has a different mobile device. So what may work on apple may not work on android, so, tony, if you have a different phone, yours may break up in someone else’s won’t. So we do all of that testing before the message ever goes out to consider, you know, even at work, someone was workout of outlook and some of us work out of google and things were under differently and while maybe annoying, i’m always the outlook girl, so i’m always like, it looks funny on that look and, you know, so for the seven other outlook, users were going toe we’re going to see it, right? Okay. All right. What? What else? So let’s, stay with this a couple seconds. What else can we easily test? Got sender subject line preview text? What else? Simple detect. The other thing that we test is in the call to action the words that appear on the button. We’re asking people to do something and really wants to test. Click here. We’re calling it the nineteen nineties tests, but we’ve found that saying, tony, you know, act now versus just act now versus, you know, change, change this do their job. And then i see more organizations using chip in exact and contribute exactly, and those air easy things, the test and you can test it on small number and then see how many people take the action that you intended them to and then roll that out said earlier, we’re testing to maybe just ten percent of the way debate test quantities frequently, but yes, i mean, in general it’s, about ten percent of the total, okay, seems like a good relationship. You’re going back and forth? Yeah, frequently on. Okay. Absolutely. Yes. Next to each other. It’s civil. Yeah. No, no, no. Tiffany and her team at law men are terrific. And we really view them as extensions of the human rights campaign staff well and to the point about subject lines and is frequently a sender of the hrc emails. And one saturday, there was an e mail from an and it was an official hrc email. But the subject line was i know it’s saturday, but and we all open it very quickly because we assumed it was work related and something? Yeah, it worked. It worked. It really was an accident. You know, it was everyone just forgot that that was going out that day at ten a m on saturday and that that was the subject line. All right, the best stuff comes from improvisation, it’s straight, solid improvisation. All right, so we’ve done some simple testing and what’s our next what’s our next step in this campaign? Well, i’m a big believer in the visuals, so if you can have a picture in the call out box, i’m also big believer, frankly, in the call out box, i feel like the call out box is the next step. After the preview text, you get somebody to open it because the preview texas either intriguing enough or important enough, it feels to me that most people then go to the call out box, and so if you’re looking at the email, the call out box can be in the center for us, it’s often to the right and it’s literally a boxed section and it’s it’s in my mind. It’s the headline it’s the action in a nutshell we want you to do x because of why and it’s it’s a shortened version if you want to read more there’s the whole email text that you can read and learn more about what the issue is. But the call out box is going to tell you what we want you to do. Why? And it’s gonna have ah, click it’s going to have a button to or link to click and immediately do the action or send in the money. So this is for somebody who’s, maybe just previewing. They read this cold outbox, but ultimately it’s the same action as if you got to the middle of the full tech that’s a bottom of a check that’s, right. Same action. And you sew for us too. We have a link or button often throughout the email throughout the call out box. I mean, we really make it easy for people to immediately we take action versus going through the entire thing. Do we have statistics on how popular the call out boxes versus going by showing further into the text? We would be able to know the amount of klicks from the call outbox versus the other clicks. Yeah, we could measure it. I don’t think we have. Just you found the flaw in the progress. You’ve done some consulting work this morning that we shouldn’t tell that it is a new toast way. Not like that. We’ll put that on the testing list meeting to the session. Exactly. Your audience would not have heard. You know, if you had not been here before. Yeah, before this, before the session. All right. No charge. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Through with no it’s. True it’s. Good point, actually. Very gratifying. Doesn’t happen often. Melkis. Okay, let’s. See, uh, all right. So we get past our email were also obviously testing different body of the text right now that this is more that’s. More elaborate. Yeah. It’s. More elaborate. And we it’s funny. We’ve tested some copy things, but often what will test is copy heavy versus image heavy things that are are more substantial. That are gonna move the needle a bit more. We try not teo. I mean, there’s tests that are interesting. And then there’s tests that we want to do that are really trying to get people tio to move the issues forward. And so we haven’t tested a lot within the copy itself. Unless it’s specifically the call to action that’s interesting now, because this is what i think people focus on the boat they dio so their focus is misplaced. It’s okay to say, well, i want i want people to approve we want people to improve, i’ll just speak for us. I mean, for hrc, i don’t think that is where our focus should be, which is why it’s not there for other organizations. It may be different, and we have tested for other organizations that may have a cause or a mission where they’re trying to figure out their messaging and in that case, figuring out how they want to state their case for support that’s a critically important tests to do and then something that should probably be done over several email messages where you have control groups getting a similar theme, or if you have a mission that has several different components. You spoke earlier about international work trying to figure out what part of the world people care about that’s, something that is worth text testing heavily with hrc there’s really don’t appreciate you bring up my one thing i said wrong well, see and overly latto that, with my brilliant way, gave you the brilliant oil pockets. No, no, you gotta remind people that i begin. What it does not get the i was right hat. So yeah, but that i mean, for some groups that’s, critically important for hrc that’s. We have so many other things past, so, yeah, okay, yeah, i would say that’s. True, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio i d’oh, i’m adam bron, founder of pencils of promise. So now let’s move next stages. We’ve we’ve refined our email as best we can. Nextstep is in a landing page. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to speak to what retested test every landing pages. You know, it’s interesting. I mean there’s, different landing pages. So for hrc, if it’s asking for a donation, they’re landing on a donation page and we spend a lot a lot a lot, a lot of time and energy and testing and thinking through exactly what they’re going to see when they get to that landing page. One of the air, the donation page. Because one of the things that hrc does very effectively is trying to get people to make monthly gifts. So we try to look at the donor experience of saying what’s going to encourage me to sign oppa’s a monthly donor. So we test what the text is. We test what numbers, aaron, the different donation options. We test it and there’s a brand new donation page for hrc. So that whole process, if it’s an action, then it’s a landing page where you’re asking people to take that action, and in the that case, we just try to go for clarity, making sure that it’s very clear what you’re being has to dio and as an said, making sure that theory of changes prominent so that people understand when they take that action there, having a positive impact on the issues they care about landing yeah, i mean, listen, first off, it’s tough to get people to open your e mails that’s number one so now you’ve gotten them to open it. You’ve gotten them to read it, you’ve gotten him to click to the landing page or to the action page or to the asian page, you have them so you don’t want to lose him at that point, so it in our minds, if they’ve gotten through to that point and let’s, say, it’s a fund-raising email make it as simple and as quick as possible to just have them, you know, hit the button and charge the credit card don’t spend a lot of times reiterating everything you’ve just said in the email and if it’s an action page, same kind. Of thing clear concise we’ve laid out the case for you. This petition is going to go to the governor for x, y and z reason click here so, you know, if you already got him where you want him, you’ve gotten them to take out the wall don’t oversell it basically, yeah, well, i make it consistent with the experience. I think one place where some organizations fall down is they’ll have that go to just a generic landing page or a generic donation page that doesn’t in any way reflect the experience they were having, so it won’t have i mean, we worked to make sure that the headlines are the same as in the emails they received in that sort of thing. So that’s, one of the reasons that we put the session together is because we were looking at the industry of things that people could be doing better than hrc does really well and go from there, i feel so strongly about consistent, consistent conversation with the reader that if we offer, say, a premium in the email for certain amount let’s say it’s, thirty five dollars and then they land on the contribution page. And it doesn’t mention it again, or we don’t start the thirty five dollars, unlike guys, we’ve just said this is going to cost thirty five dollars, then they land on the donation page, and we don’t make that reference again. So for me, it really is about the user having authentic conversation with your reader with your list and having a consistent, authentic conversation reassuring, yeah, i read this on the last page, but now it doesn’t say it anymore. Exactly five dollars like today and up in the wrong painting. Am i going to get what i wanted? It’s it’s, very it’s really important. Okay, okay, consistency, conversation. Um, after landing page, we have ah share page or some kind of post post post action post action and that’s, especially one of the other opportunities that hrc takes advantage of is if if the main action is to get people to sign a petition or call their congress person or something like that, there’s always a follow-up action where they’re given the opportunity to give because, as an said, if you’ve captured someone so deeply around this issue that they took the time to read the email to click it to fill out the petition they are most likely to want to embrace you even more and make a gift so that’s a really opportunity to encourage people to give that a lot of organizations miss out on and if it’s a donation, once people have donated, we want them to feel good about it. So we give him the chance to share the issue or to sign a petition or take take another step so that the experience continues. You always say, thank you, obviously, andi. So if this is tiffany said if they’ve taken an action, you know, get an email that said, okay, great, your actions been sent to the governor or whatever it is now, would you like to do more? You know, here’s an opportunity to give a donation. It’s not heavy handed, it’s just they’re given the opportunity many people don’t, but we’re often surprised at the amount of money that comes in from a post action shopped donation page. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pleased, very pleased. Yeah, and it doesn’t cost anything extra to add that step. Really? So so i never i never thought they were that successful. I guess i’m not obviously, don’t go by me. Yeah, and it depends on the issue. I mean, for some people, certain issues, they’re goingto be more important in the argon and not only take the action, but then donate for others. They’re just they’re comfortable with just taking the action, but but always give them the opportunity because you never know. Okay, you you’re spending some time in your session to talk about on order responder? Yeah, what are we talking about? First, i’m gonna keep you out of jargon jail, but i’m the one who said it. I don’t get you let you get me out of jail. Is that message that people automatically get through email once they’ve taken an action or made a contribution? And ah lot of email providers are set up to kind of send those auto respond messages and some organizations. All that auto respond message says is, thank you for taking an action with the human rights campaign. We think through what that says so that it is, as an says, consistent with e action, they just took it follows the experience they just had and a lot of times that will also give people another chance to act they’ll get a chance to do something else when they get that latto responder that that message that they get right away and his and said it always says thank you, yeah, usually so the order responded immediate, this is the immediate follow-up yes, right, right, okay, we didn’t talk about including video mentioned all about images. What about use of video in the email? Are you doing that more often as it isn’t working? Not in not in the email directly because it affects the affects rendering? I believe right now can it hurt delivery box is going to show up what people say on mobile, it doesn’t, because the hrc has found that they have when they actually embed the video within the email, the all of the open rates click through rates that sort of thing fall just because of potential rendering issues on different people’s individual technologies. So what we do instead is yes, so we’ll have an image of a video and with a narrow so it looks like you’re hitting the play button, but it actually takes you two in our case youtube, which is where we’ll and embed the video and that all that way they can see it and it’s a quick transition transact transition from that email to the video. Okay, and then within that video, we way try toe have words so that if people are viewing it without sound, they can still get the essence of what the piece wass eso last year, for example, at the end of the year, hrc had a very successful year. Last year, marriage equality was it was done by the supreme court. There were a lot of good activities, so to give their members the chance to participate, members were encouraged to send in their photos of the year and to make a urine video. So we thought, i don’t know, i thought maybe a couple thousand people. I don’t know how much you thought would do it. I thought maybe two. Three thousand. Yeah, i didn’t. I didn’t expect much, but we got seventeen thousand pictures. I mean, people were so excited to be a part of this. It was really i got phone calls from members saying i sent in my pictures. Could you please include them? I got permission from the photographer to include them. We got an ambassador calling, we got boardmember is calling. I mean, this ended up being so important, it really surprised me. So then when we put that video together, we had words throughout it sort of highlighting what the different groups of photos were, but we really let the photos speak for themselves. But the overall campaign, we had to really think of three because there were so many more pictures than we thought there would be. We created a siri’s of photo albums on facebook and then had other emails wherein post actions or things like that people were encouraged to then go to social media sites see the rest of the pictures because clearly we couldn’t put seventeen thousand pictures on a video or it would just be like a michael bay movie, and you were able to make it very, very inclusive. Yeah, yeah, it was clear to us that to not include i mean, everyone took it so so seriously that we wanted to honor that that feeling for them and include him wherever we could. All right, we’re gonna we’re gonna leave it there. Great. We’re gonna leave it with inclusiveness, okay? Like for human rights campaign? Yes, perfect. Now that twenty martignetti learned what human rights campaign does. I don’t mind it’s. Okay, if i do it different. But that xero durney neil isa, partner lautman, mascot neil and company and crowley, vice president membership in online strategy at human rights campaign again, ladies. Thank you very much. Thank you. Think, stoney. Sharon. Thanks, tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference. Thank you so much for being with us. And thanks to everybody at and ten the non-profit technology network next week, master google adwords and master your decision making. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com and by we be spelling not your seventh grade spelling bees for charities, we be spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Scotty, how come you weren’t listening today be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. 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