Tag Archives: donor retention

Nonprofit Radio for May 24, 2019: Small Dollar Donor Power & Donor Retention

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My Guests:

Sara Kerrigan of ActBlue and Carrie Mann of Friends of the Earth

Sara Kerrigan & Carrie Mann: Small Dollar Donor Power
Small dollar donors are shifting the digital fundraising landscape. Our panel reveals basic principles of running a sustainable program online. They’re Sara Kerrigan from ActBlue and Carrie Mann with Friends of the Earth. (Recorded at 19NTC)





Laura Cole and Paul Habig of Sanky Communications

Laura Cole & Paul Habig: Donor Retention
Now that you’ve got new donors, learn how to keep them with you: Avoid retention pitfalls, leverage technology and track the right metrics. Our teachers are Laura Cole and Paul Habig, both from Sanky Communications. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with Skip Tosa Maya sis, if I got infected with the idea that you missed today’s show Small dollar donor power Small dollar donors are shifting the digital fund-raising landscape. Our panel reveals basic principles of running a sustainable program online. They’re Sara Carrigan from Act Blue and Carry man with Friends of the Earth that was recorded at 19 and TC. And don’t a retention now that you’ve got new donors, learn how to keep them with you. Avoid retention pitfalls, leverage technology and track the right metrics Our teachers, our Laura Cole and Paul Hey Big, both from Sang Ki communications that’s also recorded in 1990 si on Tony’s Take two. Be a good American. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuing by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy Text NPR to 444999 Here is small dollar donor power. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 ntcdinosaur. What that is it’s a 19 2019 non-profit technology conference. You know that we’re in Portland, Oregon, at the convention center. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me. Now are Sarah Kerrigan seated next to me? Email Director Attack blew and carry man, Deputy Director of digital membership and advocacy at Friends of the Earth. Carry Sarah. Welcome. Thanks. Carrots are looked upon with Welcome. Welcome. Both of you. Welcome the non-profit radio. Okay. Your topic is the largest group of untapped charitable givers. Small dollar donors. Um, Sarah, what do you feel like? Non-profits don’t fully appreciate about small dollar donors. Why do we need this session? Yeah, well, I think it’s really important. I would actually say that non-profit They actually do really appreciate small dollar donors that I’ve that I’ve seen on. Really? The our goal of the presentation was just doing power non-profits to take the case to their boards or their directors and say like, Hey, this is actually like a really good use of fund-raising on. And it’s also a really good way to engage people move their mission forward. Sometimes it just takes somebody to really, like, dive deep into email on to dive deep into those fund-raising strategies for people to feel empowered to take that business case, you know, straight to their organizations. Okay, carrot. So I assume you’re working with ActBlue. Yes, we are. OK. Were you the person that Sarah just referring to? I went to your leadership and said, this is worth investing in. That was before my time. But it’s carried on. Yeah. OK, so so glad that your predecessor did that. All right, All right, So where’s the best place to start? Well, uh, if we’re if we don’t feel we are capturing all our potential in small dollar donors, where What’s the first thing that we need to have in place before we can be effective with the campaign? Yeah, that’s a really good question. Eso actually email is the driver of the vast driver of all contributions. So, really, all you need is an email program, andan email list and just a message, and you can easily write your own emails and send it out to your audience. Of course, you can use an act, Liu wink if you so choose, Um, but, yeah, it’s really, really easy to tap into small dollar donors. Really, all you need is an email address and names, and then you can go ahead and get started. Okay, you don’t have to screen for who the best the best prospects are. Well, now, I mean, there’s also there’s other different acquisition strategies that you can absolutely use. But if you’re just starting from ground zero like really, all you need is an email list, a new email address, and you can get started with your own fund-raising. Okay, Alright, Carrie, how how successful has been at Friends of the Earth? It’s been huge for our programas a hole. When I first started in front of the Earth, we had about 225 2 150,000 people on their email lists, and it was raising a pretty negligible portion of our budget. Now we have about one point 8,000,000 people on our list, and it’s raising over two and 1/2 $1,000,000 a year. All right, all right. That’s, uh, explosive. How do we define what does? Does the definition of small dollar donation Barry from organization, organization or you feel like it’s all pretty consistent, Like we’re talking like 15 $2025? Is that Is that what friends of the Earth that you define small dollar when you have these conversations? Yeah, I mean, really, we aren’t going to turn down $1,000 contribution if somebody wants to do that online. But for the most part, we’re seeing people giving and more of that $1,000 30 to $50 range online on DH. Just giving, sometimes more than once a year, three or four times a year. And yeah, that lower dollar level. Okay, All right. So, Sarah, I have I have small dollar on my T shirt. How does ActBlue define what’s on my T shirt? Yeah, sure. So a small dollar donorsearch buddy who makes a contribution of 250 or less? That’s pretty much the standard that we use, but basically the whole goal about engaging small dollar donors that that goes beyond raising money. I mean, these are people who are marching their protest ng they’re volunteering, and they’re really pushing. Non-profits causes forward and That’s really the message that we want to drive home, that it’s just like it’s not just about like fund-raising. It really is about building of movement, a powerful movement of people on DH. Usually that massive movement of people that we see are small dollar donors because they’re the most engaged. Okay, Okay, um, you’re in your session. You talk about some basics principles of running a sustainable small dollar program. So let’s start with uses were way. Stay with you. I should say, uh, what, you got to start with some basic principles. Yeah, sure, I’m the number one thing. Is this treating your supporters with respect? I mean, we live in a world right now where there’s just so much content, like were saturated with content, especially is Carrie and I are both email professionals. It’s just so important to really look at your email program and say, like, you know, we really should choose a tree. Donors with respect there’s a lot of email programs out there that kind of focus solely on fund-raising and bottom line in our in our position is we really need to build like a sustainable program again, where we just create content where people feel like you know, they want to be on the email list and they want to donate and they want to give and they want to get their time, money and energy towards the mission. How do we show that respect? Well, there’s lots of different ways Way don’t hold off on Don’t hold back on non-profit radio listeners. Yeah, How do we How do we show it took off a couple ways? Sure, eso being honest with people about why you’re asking him to give money is very important. I’ll use an example about recurring donations. Something that we have found really successful is when we just asked people like, Hey, like, can you give a monthly $3 donation to support our cause? A lot of people shy away from that because like, Oh, my gosh, I’m asking somebody to give 35 $10 a month. That seems like a pretty big ask, but really, just being honest and upfront about what you’re doing and why it’s important is super important. Also, being timely, being like relevant to the moment is super important, like people want to be engaged on. People really want Teo hear from your organization, right when the moment happens, thinking about like family separation of the border. They’re just so many people who wanted to be involved and so having a way to talk directly to supporters. Eyes really important. So I was a honest, timely And of course you need to add value, Tio. I mean your email program. It’s definitely a two way street, right? We’re not just sending mathos ostomel just of fund-raising really has to add value to the support of this border has to feel engaged into your mission on DH. That’s another great way that email like, serves that purpose. What is what is friends of the Earth do carry to show this respect that Sarah’s talking about? Yeah, So if you think about what motivates a small dollar donor to give, it’s not necessarily because they care about the specific organization. They’re really trying to advance their values through through there giving, and that’s the way they see themselves as being able to make change in the world. So as we’re fund-raising from our small dollar donors, we want to give them the credit for the work the organization can do. Those aren’t our victories. There actually are donors victories when we win a campaign, it’s because people gave us $5 out of their Social Security checks, and they deserve the credit for that. Like that’s not ours. So how do you share that specifically What? How does friends of the Earth share that? Sure that impact. Yeah. We always use a lot of you language in all of our messaging. So we never say Friends of the Earth And this we say you did this. We want to make sure the word you appears in almost every paragraph in an email whenever we possibly Can you say if you save this or you change the law? Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Okay. It’s time for a break. Pursuant. The art of first Impressions. How to combine strategy analytics and Creative two captive to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition. It’s still up on the listener landing page. How do you make that smashing? First impression donor-centric keep them. This is how you keep them coming to you. It’s at Tony dahna. I’m a slash pursuant with a capital P make the capital P for pursuing this week. Now back to small dollar donor power. Like, how often do you communicate with you? Share the impact with somebody who’s let’s say, has gives three times a year is only at those three times, not it all way. Always want to be intertwining sametz impact messaging in every communication that we send for friends of the earth. That’s about an e mail a day for most people. So every single day, just reinforcing that narrative of like you can change laws, you can change policies you’re empowered to do. These things, whether you’re giving, are signing a petition or making a phone call to your decision maker. It’s all part of the same set of impact methods. So, like, it doesn’t really matter what way they’re engaging with us. We always want to be rewarding the impact that they’re having. Okay, so someone makes thes donations typically online. I’m assuming we’re talking about small dollar because they’re coming from e mails. All right, so they get an immediate getting immediate acknowledgement. Thank you. Absolutely. Okay. And then what would be the next? Uh, suppose it was a $25 gift. They get immediate. Thank you. When’s the next time would be the next day? You said. You said everyday. Is there any Is there any suspension of suspension of mailing for a couple days to give the person a break or they hear from you is like Day two. They’re going to get going, get some impact message. They could get something to hours later. Even if something happens out in the world and we need Teo, go to them and ask them to respond again. Like, for example, if somebody gives to help stop drilling in the Arctic. And then two hours later, Trump releases his next Arctic drilling plan. We’re not going to hold back that information from our supporters were going to share that with them, even if they just donated and ask them two hours earlier that gave $25 you’ll ask him to give again. We may not ask them to give again, but we would ask them to take action in some way, maybe to volunteer, get old solution way call legislator or something that Okay. Uh, all right. How about, uh, another? Well, honesty. You said honesty. I mean, they got don’t do flush out honestly do we mean? I think is pretty well understood. No, don’t lie to your supporters. Don’t like their potential. Supporters don’t like anyone. I think that’s just I don’t think that’s going further with that another we got lots of We got lots of time together. So still talking about basic principles of, ah, successful campaign, you want to stick with you, Go ahead. Yeah. So I think you touched on a little bit, Sarah, but with urgency and just making sure that when you’re asking people to give its relevant in that moment and you’re convincing them that by giving it will have an immediate impact. Still like, for example, if a bill is moving through the legislature right now like that’s why your contribution matters today, not tomorrow, not two weeks from now. And just constantly reinforcing that like this is the moment to engage. And if you want to have the maximum impact, now is the time. OK, Sarah. Another another principle. Yeah, sure. And she touched on and carry touched on this before. Teo, we really want to focus on building what I call horizontal relationships with our supporters. A lot of times non-profits and organizations across the board say, you know, we have this solution chip in if you want. Like we have this very big idea. We we’ve got it cover, but, you know, chip in to help us. But what we want to do is kind of take that messaging and move away from it. So it’s actually really saying to supporters like Hear that Here’s this issue. Let’s fight on it together. We cannot do it around about you helping us do it right, right, right. And it’s very, very easy on an email marketing to literally put help us in every single email. Ask. Well, Windows won’t eliminate the help us, and we actually really want to bring the supporter in. And I was telling folks during our presentation, There’s a study in the UK about horizontal relationships in sustainable giving, and people who are asked by their peers are actually twice as likely to give, which is really, really incredible on DH. That’s just something that we really want people to focus on for writing emails that sound like they’re coming from your parents. We like a vertical relationship. You probably want to stay away from that. You probably want to make sure that it’s really coming from like a respected here peer-to-peer peer-to-peer rancor. And that’s where that is from. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Um, why don’t we just keep taking off principles of success? I mean, I imagine that was a lot of your was a lot of yourself. Have you done your session yet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You’re on the downside then. Okay. I’m assuming a lot of your session was best practices. Basic principles. Yeah. Success in this thing? Yes. In this small dollar campaign. Give us another one. E. I mean, there’s there’s just so many. Another thing Teo is just having, like, a really, really clear email copy and just making it very simple for people to understand. Does that include short? Well, it depends. And email. We always say it defends. You should always, like test, but basically making sure that people the average like person spends 11.6 seconds reading your email, which is actually pretty long compared tto in the past. But it’s still 11.6 seconds. So just making sure that your email copy is super super clear. Your asks. They’re super clear. Your supporter is not left wondering what they khun D’oh! In that moment to drive the whole mission on the whole organization Forward. I mean, a lot of times I’ll see an e mail that has text, uh, wrapped around on action box in the in the upper right tech starts on the left. But if you want to cut right to the chase, there’s the language of the petition that we’re asking you to sign, Right? Just click there. You have to read the text explanation If you don’t want to. Yeah, yeah, and that’s accessible to everybody. Right? Like some readers like like to just immediately go on Like say, Okay, I know what I want to dio that. And then some people really like just like taking their time and background. Some people really feel down Notes of five foot note down the bottom, right, right. And being open to all levels of like readership is really important to we talked about in our training the power using inclusive language and making sure that your email copy is accessible, accessible to everyone, which is also I think that is very important in the state. How do you How do you ensure accessibility it was a couple of different ways to do that. Carrie actually mentioned a really good point with her email program, which I’ll let her talk more about. But usually people are 65 and over on email lists. So, Carrie, I’m going to kick it off to you to talk specifically about how you made it more accessible on your list. Yeah. So one of the things that we experimented with this font size. You know, a lot of people think that if you’re reading something on a mobile device, you want it to be clearly fitting the screen. But we actually found that for our older audiences, we needed 18 point fun on Mobile, which, if you think about what that looks like kind of computer, it’s huge on your phone. That’s like three lines can fit in the screen. But we tested it, and it just universally work better. Okay, Okay. How about what else do you test? What does the mother’s subject line, who signs we test took off? Well, name some names of other things besides everything. So, in one email, for example, if we’re sending a fund-raising message, we might test the subject line we might test the content. We might test the language on the donation page both in the headline of the donation page and on the body of the donation page. And we might test the ask amounts all in the same all at the same time. And so we really want to test every single piece of the experience all the time. Those of the results that were going to get back in a matter of minutes. We also might be doing some kind of long term testing. Like, for example, what happens if we segment based on highest previous gift? We might need to test that for six months to really understand the impact that’ll have. So while we’re doing all of this testing in the moment, we’re also have this backdrop of the long term testing that we’re running behind the scenes. Did you say you have one point 8,000,000 was 1.31 point. Okay, so you have the luxury of having a large, large numbers that you can test with. So I suppose a list supposed listens only 10,000. Can you still do? Abie testing with 10,000 persons list? Yeah. What? I’d like to tell people is don’t worry about getting sister’s school significance or being like a data purest. It’s fine. The goal, really for, like, email eyes just to improve your email content so that you can raise more money. That’s really all it takes. I mean, you, Khun segment off a 10,000 list into, like to, what? 2,000 list for subject lines and just see if there’s a bumper. Not really. Doesn’t have to be that complicated. And again, like our goal. For me, for AC Blue and for Carrie is like to make in this presentation is really It’s like, take, like the fear out of email and actually make it to listen right? Exactly. That’s what I should have said. The whole university invention non-profit treyz right there. There you go ahead. I cut you off. No, it’s okay. I know, but really it’s like take the fear out of e mail on DH to take the fear out of fund-raising. This is something that anyone could. D’oh! Yeah, Okay, Okay, That would be a good rap up play point, but we have another 10 minutes left. Ok? Because this is 1/2 hour segment Yeah, so I’m not letting you off the hook, so that would be good. Rap will come back to you later, okay? In about 10 minutes. So let’s keep talking about I don’t know testing. Is there anything more we can say about testing? Either of you carry Sara about anything more you want to add about testing? I think the big thing is look for the stuff that’s going to have the greatest impact. So you know, you might test two versions of your content, but if it’s only one line difference, then you’re probably going to see a really small change. As a result of that is opposed to completely rewriting the E mail, you’ll probably see a much bigger change. And it’s not really that much more investment of time to create the much more different version and the results that you get well, just be that much more valuable. So we really look for the places that we can make those radical improvements or something we’ll just radically fail. But then at least we know, you know, rather than constantly testing around the margins. Okay, Okay. Test for significance. What have you found about who signs an email. You have signers to your email? Yeah. Now, of course, this is unique. Understands unique Teo, Friends of the earth. Thes result. Your your results may vary, but what has friends of yours found for us? Who signs What? Successful? Yeah. So we test it in two places. One is the sender, and one is who actually has their name at the bottom of the text. We have found that it makes osili no difference whose name is at the bottom of the texts. But the sender could make a really huge difference for us. The organisation’s name is usually the winner. So coming from friends of the Earth beats coming from our president’s name. But the thing that actually wins the most is just like a totally random like climate alert or be action. Something that is about the issue rather than about the organization or an individual. And that’s as a sender. Yes. Oh, interesting. Okay. Okay. Um Okay, so we’ve exhausted testing. We feel like you said everything. It was there more. Anything more. You want to know about testing, testing principles? Yeah, I think it’s just important for all testing. It’s really like optimizing your content ofthe devising your ask amounts, and it’s just a continual thing. Having one test for email is probably a good place to start and again, Really, anybody could do this. Yeah, okay, okay, Let’s continue with our basic principles. That good. Keep going, Sarah. Cool. Another basic principle. Trying to think. I mean, there’s just there’s just so many We went through so many again trying to think, Let’s get carried. You got one. You got one in mind in your mind, I think, like relevance is super important. Like, what do your supporters actually care about? It’s probably not the same thing that your organization’s leadership or even your organization staff really care about. So try to think about it from your supporters perspective. Like, what is it that makes them get excited about in our example? Environmental protection like water, the things that are their core values And how do you speak to those things like it’s probably not the amendment to the budget bill that’s passing through the house tonight. You know, that’s probably not thinking about Okay, right? How do you find that out? How do you know what your supporters were interested in? So I think some of it comes from just listening to the different staff of the organization who interact with supporters. If you have people who work in the community like if your service organization than get their stories go out on a site, visit with them for us. We always talk to our donorsearch Mrs Staff, who answered the phone from donor-centric leave the major donor calls, but the it’s all dollar donors who might give through direct mail or other channels who actually called the office to give us feedback that Khun just give a really interesting perspective on how people are interacting with us and then even things like social media or people who hit Reply on your mass e mail. You know it’s not data driven, but it can kind of guide some of your thinking and get you out of the bubble. So these air folks who call probably to complain about something sometimes I’m guessing most of the time, most of time, right. But you’re able to turn that call around first by satisfying hearing the principles we talk, you know, validating their concern, apologizing, fixing it on. Then you can get information from them about what it is that motivates them around. Friends of the Earth work? Absolutely. Yeah. So staff is all trained to do that. It doesn’t just happen. Doesn’t just happen. Staff is intentionally trained, you know, Let’s get some information while we’ve got these people on the phone and they’re feeling good, um, you’re familiar with the service recovery paradox. I’m not? No. Okay, that’s that because we’re talking about people calling and complaining. Ah, a person will be a person will be mohr committed to a brand. If there’s been a problem and it got solved, then if there was never a problem because they got the opportunity to be heard they had the opportunity to interact with staff on the problem. Presumably get solved. So they’ll be they’ll be more committed than the person who never has a problem, right? I think that that’s why it’s paradox Interesting. Okay, um, more principles. Sarah passed last time. So no person are you, Carrie, You give another one. Since we’re with you, then we’ll come back. So I’m never going back. But she passed up returns. Think if you’re talking about small donor fund-raising, you always want to make sure that you’re giving people the right ascot the right time. So if someone’s capable of giving $30 don’t ask him for five. If someone’s capable of giving $5 don’t ask them for 250. You know, all of our son isms have data, or you, Khun do some analytics to find out what each individual donors has previous gift is or if they’ve never given before you contest into what makes the most sense. But you want to be talking to people and meet somewhere there at rather than trying to, like a massively over sell them in a way that isn’t accessible. Okay, Okay. Before I ask you for principal, I’m gonna ask you, Sarah, how does one become a email? Your director of director of email? Yeah. That’s not a That’s not a major. No, no, we don’t go to college for that. How do you do? You work your way into that? Yeah, sure. So I graduated college and I it worked as a field organizer for then Senate Senator Kay Hagan. So I really liked what state? The state of North Carolina. OK, Yeah. I’m sorry. I should know that I should I own two homes in North Carolina. Really? Pinehurst and Emerald Isle. Okay, but I’m not from there. Yeah, I didn’t know. Okay, Don’t. Yeah. Now it’s now it’s ber until us all right now the current. Yeah, we lost another current guys. Yeah, but I didn’t know. Okay? Yeah. Eso graduated field organizer. I love talking to people, but I didn’t think that knocking on doors was going to be my life’s calling And my life’s work. Eso ended up getting into digital fund-raising Just because I was just you could talk to people at a massive scale which is really empowering and very cool Uses both sides of your brains. You could be like creative. But of course, we’ve talked a lot about testing on this times. You kind of have a science to it. Also right. Eso I’ve spent like 4 to 5 years and political fund-raising, so I work for the DSCC. I work for Revolution Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. Okay. Yeah. I worked for a revolution messaging a za consultant there, and I was formally the deputy email director at the Democratic National Committee, the DNC, where we had a multi $1,000,000 programme and I’m up at blue. So I’ve been very fortunate to have really great, like female mentors on work on female teams. And so I credit them a lot. Teo, you know where I’m at today on DH. There is a lot of space for women to be an email. There’s a lot of space for young people to be an email on DH. There’s a lot of space for people who haven’t really been involved in email. Toe start. I was with a panel yesterday, which was called I don’t have you know, I left him back in the hotel yesterday’s notes, but was called grit. Female was basically female technologists go that you’re nodding. I didn’t It’s okay, but it was great how to be a successful female in technology. That right? Very good, Carrie, how’d you work your way into being an email scientist? Yes. So I started answering. Our phone line for donorsearch vis is which is why I feel so strongly about your whole career’s friends of the earth. Yet so far on. And basically I discovered that I really wanted to have an impact on the issue that issues I cared about. But I didn’t really want to be dressing up in a suit and going in meeting with a lot of people on the hill. I really wanted to be, you know, out in the field, talking Teo really human beings. And email was just the right mix of those things where I could ask people for money to help further the mission. Or I could give people the tools to lobby their own. Elected officials are whatever the action mechanism was, it was all in my fingertips, and I never have to put on the suit, so that looks okay, doesn’t it? Okay, so we’re back to you practice. Best practice. Did you think of one since the last time? Yeah, I think so. Back to what Carrie was saying about multi-channel about talking to other people within the organization. I think that that is really, really important. Usually when I started a new organization, or like every three months, I’ll talk Teo, just different folks just to get some authenticity and authentic voice. I mean, people are craving authenticity and email, so that’s a really good way to do it. Another thing. That and another question that I got during the panel was direct mail and email. And how do those two things relate? And can they co exist? My personal opinion is yes, they absolutely can. You can use direct mail pieces and email vice versa. You, Khun, send email to to direct mail folks too for a multi touch, eh? So that’s another thing, too, that I think non-profits Khun really explore its really not one or the other. You can have both had someone on the panel yesterday who said that their donors loved getting. They thanked them for direct mail letters that say thank you for an email gift for non line gift. Yeah, yeah, it’s a really good way to keep your sustainers like, really happy. And that’s like your big donor based. Okay, how often would you thank sustainers as often as I can after every gift every month? Well, usually you could do in personal personalization so you can say, like, Hey, you’ve made, like, a $3 monthly donation and literally you just put Inem dash and say thank you. It’s it could be that simple, or it can be like so extreme that you write like a hand written thank you know and send it in the mail. So it just depends on what your capacity is. But just giving, you know, those donors a sense of like appreciation is super important you want. Do you want to touch them at every at every monthly donation, one way or the other? Yeah, well, I’m That’s my personal belief. I think people like they pretty much know that they’re doing a monthly donation and actually reminding people that they gave him a plea donation for us. Like I haven’t seen any dropoff whatsoever. I know a lot of people are like aholic. I’m nervous about reminding people that they have a monthly donation, but I think for us, it’s like part of a gang. Like the honesty authenticity on being up front with people in where they stand. I’ve heard it both ways. I’ve heard. Set it and forget it. Don’t remind them. But then you risk when the court expires or it gets compromised. They decide they have had enough, and I don’t really hear from them very often. But there’s two sides to that argument, right? Okay. What? Carrie, I’m gonna let you wrap it up. We got just like, 30 seconds or so left. Give us a motivation about small dollar donation campaigns. Yeah, I mean, I think for friends of the Earth, it’s really been a a game changer for us. You know, every dollar you raise online has the potential to be unrestricted. So it means that you can run the programs that you want to run as an organization without being required to do what a major donor wants you to do or what a foundation wants you to do. You could be much more flexible, and you’re empowering human beings in the real world to be a part of your cause and advanced the mission that you care about. And there’s just no better way to do that than building those relationships online. Where people, you know in the 21st century, that’s where they’re at. So we meet them where they’re also thank you. That was That was Cary Man. She’s deputy director of digital membership and advocacy at Friends of the Earth and also Sarah Kerrigan, email director. Attack Blue. Thank you Each very much. Thanks. Much pleasure. Thank you. And thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC all of our 19 1990 seon reviews are brought to you as from our partners at ActBlue free fund-raising tools that help non-profits Macon Impact. Thanks for being with us. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re accountants, for God’s sake. Okay, you know you know what they do. Do you need one? Do you need help with your form? 9 90 is the time to change ordered firms. Perhaps they’ve got a deep rich practice for non-profits and they’re growing it. You could be a part of that. You know a partner. You know, one of the insiders Yet which tomb? He’s been on the show. Check him out. Give him, then give you a ring. Get started at wagner cpas dot com. Now time for Tony’s take two. My video is two ways to be a good American Abroad. I was in Paris for two weeks and while in Brussels, Belgium. Short hour and 1/2 train ride away. Ah, I witnessed some some bad behavior. Bad Americans abroad. There were two things that particular relating Teo language and currency and those air. But those are the two subjects. But how can you do them better than these ugly Americans that I witnessed in Brussels. That’s what the video is about. Now, I had said that earlier that my video was going to be a tour in L C C A launch control center from when I was in the Air Force. But I put this one up instead. The launch control center one is coming. I’m not cheating you out of the tour of the LCC, but right now check out two ways to be a good American abroad. You know where the video is? It’s at tony martignetti dot com. So now that you’ve got new donors, how do you keep them? Here is donor retention. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 1990 si. You know what that is? It’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference. We’re in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center and this interview, Like all our 19 ntcdinosaur views brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact, I guess now are Laura Cole and Cole. Hey, Big Laura is director of account Services at Sancti Communications. Paul is president of Sank a communications Welcome. Welcome, Laura. Welcome poem Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Pleasure. You’re seminar topic is finders keepers the art of donor of retention? I don’t know how many guests have been on non-profit radio telling us that the cost of retaining a donor is so much less than the cost of acquiring a new donor. More. Let’s start with you. What are what are non-profits Just not getting them. This is not just within the past six months. For years we’ve been talking about donorsearch tension problems. Retention rate is so low, I don’t know what the most current is, but it’s it’s it’s sad, Whatever it is, what are we not getting right? And you’re welcome to give the most recent stat if you I’m sure you know it. So I think it’s a great point and I think one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about it today and in our session. We really focused on it too. Is that this? This December was definitely a challenge for a lot of non-profits, and it was particularly a challenge for getting new donors in the door. And that means that retention becomes that much more important and to your point. Retention doesn’t happen. You really have to tow work and focus on your communications to make sure that you’re building that relationship because it’s donors are going to give. But you have to take that is the first step of the relationship and really work on cultivating them so that they’re going to become lifelong donors. Paul, Why we’ve been talking about this for so long. Why are non-profits not getting the message that Laura just redid? Rated for the 1,000,000 times? You know, I ended the session off with the audience and said to them, You’ve already done. You’ve really done your session this on the down side already on our way to end it all by saying, Don’t be impatient, Don’t dahna Retention takes time. It takes time to improve it. So we did a case study with the African Wildlife Foundation, and we’ve been working with them for like seven years, and we were able to get there Don’t retention right now. Currently in two thousand eight from 2,018 upto almost 70% prior. You’re donors to give again in the second year, and it took years of planning and communicating and it really is the foundation of what we discussed. And what we believe in is that you really need to build the foundation with technology, good technology from the start. And so this organisation, we went through a really important and arduous database and technology conversion for them almost three years ago, three years ago. I think he was closer to 55 years ago, and so we were able to actually put all the pieces that you need to make this a mohr automated process to really focus on things which allowed the organization and us and freed us up to be more creative with how he spoke to donors. The campaigns that we produced for the organization and really give them an engaging donor experience throughout the 12 month period that we benchmarked this morning. All right, so it’s a long term process you need to have. You need to have infrastructure in place before you can before you can hope to move the needle on potential. It is buy-in caps. Elated. This Yeah, I know. The idea is that one of the things we’ve mentioned at the end was you have to invest. Unfortunately, we’ll invest in the technology even before we even get into donorsearch tension versus new donorsearch attention. It is important because what happens is if you don’t have that infrastructure there. Misstep and interesting. It was the way originally were caught. We’re going to call the session howto lose a donor in 10 days kind of pop culture reference for a movie. But it really is true. Is that idea that in the first part of the relationship, if you have a misstep, you probably lose a donor for life if you, you know, code them differently if you personalize something and it’s the wrong information, if you don’t thank them in a timely manner. And there’s a lot of different things that go into that so really kind of making sure that infrastructure is up and running to make sure that you don’t have those early missteps so that you can create a lifelong donor-centric to get to some of the pitfalls you have in your your description talk about pitfalls that are causing dahna patrician. So why did you want Okay, well, naming the person incorrectly. Yeah, Personal personalization is one of our most powerful tools in marketing and fund-raising, but if you call Bob Barbara, you know, you kind of lose a donor for life for sure, making sure that you I already have in motion the idea that if someone comes on brand new, this is like a data problem that people do that you’re suppressing the people who are new versus old and actually figuring out who they are. So, for instance, I make a donation. A lot of signs, some systems is that you’ll go right into the next campaign stream. But I just made my first donation. So what we can certainly do with the technology for our clients is that will create an automated program that will actually capture that new donor-centric, possibly who hasn’t giving but maybe give their email address for the first time and put them on a separate track and making sure that at the same time they’re suppressed from any other campaigns. Generally, the can kapin would have some kind of fund-raising asked. So really kind of setting the stage of their relationship for the beginning and not forgetting that they just made a donation and really trying to the information that we provide in that Siri’s is meant to be engaging in the part where it actually educates them on the mission and deeper into the program versus you know, usually probably what we brought that original donor and is on some kind of urgency, you know, really quick and got emotional reaction. But at that point, then you have there you have their attention, and you have to use it wisely. Okay, and Laura suppress them For how long? So generally, what what will work with organizations to do is to build a really robust welcome Siri’s. And that usually is at least fortified emails that will go out over, say, 2 to 3 weeks. So making sure that they complete that cycle before they start to get the regular stream of communications. So they’re not kind of being dropped in in the middle of one campaign, or they’re not getting the welcome Siri’s and that campaign. But instead they’re really sort of sitting by themselves, getting this very targeted, very tailored Siri’s that’s going to introduce them to your mission to the organization, tell them what their their donation has done before you ask again. So it’s really making sure that those and and to go back to sort of the movie reference that we made its It is like a relationship, and if you make a mistake in the first date or the second date or the third date, you’re probably not going to turn into a long term relationship. But Teo ads that question about how long it does vary from organization to organization. What we discussed this morning would be the organization that we were case studying, which is the African Wildlife Foundation. They have a membership program. So the how long is a shorter period of time because of the membership program and a lower dollar average gift for them. Repetition in marketing fund-raising is key to their success. But some organizations we work with that might start off at a much higher average gift. That’s where you’d have to really kind of b’more conscientious on the frequency and how when that next asks, Come in. So that could be you know what with the organization with membership, you might be 2 to 3 week where you’re suppressing, but an organization that has a higher average gift donor-centric month or two before or really looking at they’re giving history, so it’s not a one size fits all. It really has to be customized to each organization and what their mission and what type of donors they do have. Oh, and and also targeted to the constituent. If you’re talking about a donor that’s giving a small gift, you’re you’re going to want to suppress him for a shorter period of time than someone that gave you $10,000. That person’s going to need a lot longer period of pure cultivation before you make that ask again. Okay, let’s let’s do some more pitfalls like these pitfalls to avoid attrition. Absolutely. Go ahead, I think. One of the big ones. And this is partly why digital retention tends to be lower than direct mail. Is not making sure that you’re updating donor email addresses, whether they tell you that they have a new email address. But even more proactively finding out what the what what? Maybe someone’s new email address is called in a way or email. Change of address process. Something like that where you’re you’re actively saying, let me make sure that I can keep emailing a donor because email addresses changed much more frequently than someone’s mailing address. People don’t generally move as much as they change their email address. Maybe they go to a new job. Maybe they switch from Yahoo Hotmail. So making sure that you can keep talking to them, because if you’re not going to talk to them, you can’t make that ask. You can’t cultivate and they’re not going to get there much less likely to give again if you kind of lose touch. I’m not even sure that non-profits know a lot of them know that there are services that will do it. The email change of address for you, Yeah way the Postal Service with, like, a a national change of address I have now on the way. I have, ah, have a little personal story, my dad’s name and my name or the same Anthony martignetti, but he uses A J. He’s Anthony Joseph. I have the same middle name, but I never used the J. There’s one indicator that we’re different. Also, his his current address is not my last address. I haven’t lived there since I was nine, eighteen 18 years old. I went to college. I moved. I moved from New York City to North Carolina. More than a dozen charities started emailing Anthony J. Martignetti to my North Carolina address Charities that my dad is a is an active donorsearch. For now, he’s a small level donor. Is he’s one of those guys who writes like 15 $2025 checks, and I mean literally he does dozens of these a month. He gives a lot at the end of the year, so they were. So they were aspiring to be proactive. But there were two flags that should have been raised that that I’m not the guy, that he’s not the guy who moved the middle initial and the last address. So that brings us to another pitfall. It’s one of the major pitfalls pitfalls. A lot of non-profits full into his data issues data. Bad data can really harm donorsearch tension. So in your case, these organizations are not actually there. There, there, there, there, looking up your information. It’s either it’s household or individual. And so you can. We’ve seen this happen for organizations where you’ll get a household match, and that’s what you’re what happened with name yes, but versus an individual, which is directly just you and that address. But it brings back the point, which I think we’ll go back to our topic on pit bulls data. It could be the right that for all non-profits not. And it’s the hardest part for an organization that really both invest the time and money and resource is. That’s usually people power to make sure that you have clean data for knowing when someone is active or made a gift recently, and then you ask them by actually ask him to renew when they just renewed a month ago. Or I mentioned the personalization piece or recognizing when someone is, ah, high dollar donor-centric. And that’s one of actually the things that you mentioned. Is it really important? Sustaining giving is one of the differential factors where online retention doesn’t actually start going up from offline retention if you’re really good at recruiting sustainers or monthly givers and then making an active effort. So part of the case study with you this morning was that we’ve been actively growing the sustainers file for this organization, and it right now they’re they’re about 25 plus percent that there digital giving is coming from sustainers e-giving, which each year helped their retention grow, and that’s why they’re close to 70% now on retention because of that. But when we treat sustainers, we always recognize that there are sustainers. So even though that you don’t want to stop communicating sustainers gonna wantto forget about the organization. But we segment and we recognize their contribution and we usually put them in a lot of the engagement campaigns and cultivation. The awesome part about sustainers is they’re so engaged with the organization what I always call the 13th gift. So that will be a monthly Don’t make 12. They’ll make that 13 because they’re so engaged. But you have to really treat them well and so generally will maybe get they’ll get a matching gift campaign, maybe year, and to say, Hey, we have this match going on. We know you’re a monthly supporter, but we just wanted to bring it to your attention. It’s all about the nuance messaging and really think about that. But it goes back to the data being clean and knowing who you’re speaking to, segmenting your audiences and really paying attention to that and bad data. Really, convict can really lead, Yeah, two mistakes like that. Now you know if if it wasn’t my dad I wouldn’t be. Wouldn’t wouldn’t have given them the second chance. I just tossed it or said, You know, take me off your list. Hence, how to lose a donor in 10 days Time for our last break Text to give. Get their five part email Many course to dispel the myths around mobile giving Donations do not have to go through the donors phone company. They don’t have to be small. There aren’t large startup costs. You don’t need to know a lot of technology. You can do this. You can do mobile giving. You get the five part email, many course and it’ll explain how to get started. Um, you get that by texting NPR to 444999 You’ve got butt loads. More time for donorsearch retention anymore. Pitfalls. I liked the men I like taking off these things, that organ ords maybe doing wrong. So so along the lines of what you brought up, I think one of the biggest pitfalls is not respecting when when donorsearch Hey, I don’t want to get mail or you have the wrong address. Please update it. Donors who bothered to reach out and tell you that are very loyal donors. If they’re proactively reaching out and saying, Please send, you know, to this new email or this new postal address or this is the wrong you know, middle initial or this is the wrong no last name. Anyone who reaches out with that cares a lot about the organization. And so it’s making sure that you’re respecting that and that there’s business rules and to Paul’s point, people in place to make those updates right, because the second time, the person when the first that’s right, second request. Then you’re done. This is your you’re hurting. So absolutely that dovetails into a point of really making sure the right hands talking to the left hand, where if you’re running a campaign that you have really good donorsearch vis reps who understand what’s going on with the fund-raising department and can actually feel those questions. So they got a matching gift request, for instance, knowing that when they answer the phone that they were talking about that a lot of time. Our donors donors will call for organization to say well, might give still be matched. I’m a little late, so having someone ready to know that. But at the same time, what we find the organizations have been most successful is when they have somebody on the phone who can really take a donor complaint and make them to a lifelong donors. And it’s just really preparing them and training them on DH, treating someone like a human being and understanding that even their $25 gift is just as important as the $1,000 gift when they when they take the energy to call the organization. And generally you can really kind of swing a donor to be really lifelong supporter as long as you have somebody on the lines and the phone. Many organizations forget about that, and you made a good point this morning, which I’ll let you make about even just the last week of the year. Well, it’s It’s remembering that some of the biggest giving days on the online side are not working days. It’s the end of the year. It’s Christmas, it’s New Year’s. It’s days when the office may be closed. But if no one’s answering the phones when you have donors trying to make a gift, you know if you get back to them in January. It’s too late, you know, a sort of mist that window. And so it’s thinking about customer service, especially on those key days when, even if you know, recognizing it’s a holiday. But it’s when people are giving and needing to be there for the donors. Do either of you know the There’s a paradox service like service repair paradox or something like that in customer service, where if you’ve made a mistake and corrected it as a as a company, you will. You will have a more loyal customer than if you hadn’t made the mistake in the first place. And that’s goes to what you were describing. Pull their end well and Laura, too, that that there’s someone there responsive that actually makes the change or correct the problem. They have to be empowered to correct the problem, and if they do, you’ll have a more loyal well, it feeds over in our in our circle. It does have a more loyal donor-centric to begin with, so we made a point this morning. Another don’t was when your when your service recovery, that’s what service recovery paradox. So we made a point talking about the fact that Okay, so you’re going to make mistakes sometimes. So just say, make sure your emails rendering correctly when someone views it makes sure when someone lands on a donation form, it’s working correctly. However, technology breaks down sometimes, regardless of how much you test how great you are at that. But what I talked to the audience about is as long as you’re both timely with your apology and also just things do happen. And, you know, one of the best examples would have been Steve Jobs. When the iPhone had the antenna issue, he pretty much changed the entire power paradigm for PR in the sense of how he handled that situation where they were. They were roasting Apple at that point, and he actually turned it around and it became the best selling high phone because the way he handled that, he took responsibility and they moved on. And I think the quote was, well, technology breaks down. Actually, all phones dropped calls, and it’s not just it’s not just the iPhone and that quickly the media shifted there, but the whole idea is being quick and nimble and being able to go back out So the non-profit has an issue with their donation form or something with their sight being quick and being able to be. You know, sometimes humor works in some ways and some organization, depending on your mission. But being direct on that and really kind of talking about it and getting out getting in front of it is so important. And again, then you know that that that experience level, we actually see that a lot of the times those correction emails do perform quite well, sometimes even better than the other emails in the Siri’s. When you go back and you’re just really human and honest about what happened and take responsibility exactly that za piece of what a piece of what you’re describing all right, and and to your point earlier about the small dollar donor to remember that for that donor, that’s that’s a big commitment they’ve made for you. It’s a it’s a small amount of money, but for them it’s a big commitment, and so treating them well regardless of the amount of money that they give. And that’s one thing that the digital space allows for is that high touch treatment allows for the personalization it allows for. The customization allows those donors to feel special regardless of how much they’ve given and in terms of numbers. Sometimes the small dollar donors that given year after year and say, Hey, I’ve moved, please update it. Those may be your best plan giving prospect so you can’t dismiss them even if they’re giving you a little amount, because for them, it’s a It’s a lot I do plan. Giving consulting now 1997 carrying on and the ultimate retention I’ve seen lots of seen lots of eyes algorithms, I guess, for you know, who makes a good plan giving prospect. I still think the best plan giving prospect is that person who’s given you 23 gifts in the past 25 years exactly on the most recent one was no more than, like, six months ago or something. Yeah, they are thinking about you every single every single year, and I don’t I really don’t care. Here’s $10 a year. In some cases, I think they’re testing you, but they’re probably testing you for 23 years. But but some of those initial small dollar gifts they may be testing you do I get a thank you is a timely yeah. Did they screw things up in the thank you, you know, etcetera. So I think there’s some of that. Some of the testing on the small dollar lord to your point about small dollar donations. But they are enormously good playing, giving prospects that kind of that kind of loyalty and longevity, even if even if small, small, double digit levels very good plan giving prospects here earlier point about because acquisition is so challenging. Some one plan gift from someone who made a gift for 20 years who can pay for an acquisition program for an entire organization meeting. You know, you you invest that money 20 years ago and then you’re banking on it later on where they’ve left this entire you know, there’s a part of their state to an organization, and so it’s important, actually tracked those folks right to find out what the origin of those folks who do come in because it’s generally as you just said, those low Doyle. The donor’s really do care about the organization. That’s why they stuck around for 23 years. It is important. Look, back-up e-giving history and try and ascertain from those patterns. Hoo hoo! Your other good prospects are. Yeah, and that’s one thing we spoke about at the session is, is the data side of it is is to really track retention and really leverage it. You have to have the data collection in place. You have to know who your donors are. You need ideas for them. So you contract. They’re giving year over year, but you also need to be able to identify where they came from in the first place. If you want to invest smart going forward, you have to know what your investments really yielded in the past. And so the cost of acquisition. What’s the source? The source, the source? And what did it cost exactly? And even if it was a long time ago, being able to know what that was is really valuable. That’s a great transition anymore, Waken say about technology. I mean, well, you both in it a lot. There’s no anymore more strategies around technology that he needs to be in place. So Paul touched on it, and I think it’s important is to recognize that your technology can can work for you or against you and recognizing where it it is working for you and maybe where it’s it’s presenting challenges and and maybe those air too much, and you’re really costing yourself on the retention side for not investing in technology. But it’s also recognizing that technology without the people to really leverage it isn’t going to get you very far that you need data people you need. You know, people who know how to use the technology and can really make it work for you. So I think it’s It’s technology, by itself is not powerful. It’s technology and people and subsided. And what you’re saying is you have to hire the expertise that you need. If it’s not a full time employee, you have to get a consultant freelancer. You can’t You can’t manage this and master it on your own on DH. That’s not your expertise anyway. You’re zan inefficient use of your own time or your organization’s time to try to master something that you don’t know you need to. You need to invest in the talent that you need because the organizations are good at their missions. You know, in many ways, right, it’s not really about marketing or technology or database management. I mean, it does. It does come to that. Sometimes you and I think also a point you made earlier that that I do think sometimes gets lost is that when when it comes to our attention, sometimes it’s it’s fancy technology and automation and behavioral driven content. And sometimes it’s the basics. It’s the acknowledgement. Did you send an acknowledgement? Did it talk about the impact that the gift had did it? You know, thank the donor an appropriate way. Was it sent out on time? So with all the bells and whistles that are out there in technology now, it’s important to not forget those fundamentals and to make sure that those air in place, regardless of whether you have a staff of 10 or one very well said you should be co presidents. Take note of that account services sounds sounds beneath her to mate. We’ve been working together for 10 years. It’s true. That’s good. Yeah, co President. Um, okay, let’s look metrics. You talk about metrics to measure churn and retention. Who wants to wants to kick off the metrics? We got like, four more minutes left together. So you want to start for so the biggest thing when it comes to metrics is, is having the data in place and knowing whether or not you even have the data to track it. And the key for retention is that you’re tracking donorsearch cohorts. So it’s not talking about the total number of gifts that’s talking about donors and specific groups of donor. So when you want to measure overall retention from one year to another, you need to know which donors gave in your one and which donors went onto given year, too. So so if you can actually identify that because you don’t have the ideas or you don’t have the data in biology infrastructure, just talking, you’re not going to get anywhere. And similarly, knowing someone who’s new versus who’s who’s renewed is quite important because going back to the point you made earlier about acquisition, the retention of a new donor right now hovers around 25%. And so really tension of a 1st 3rd 1st time, first time donors so well, so organized organization whose 75% of the people they broke time don’t Yeah, and so there is making sure you have the ability to track these things so that you actually then Khun, figure out you’re targeted strategies towards these groups, treating them separately in some ways and actually having creative and ideas and specific pieces that go to them so that you can retain those vote for people. We kind of haven’t touched upon it. But a lot of the strategies that we’ve been implementing with great success is trying tio convert a lot of those first time donors into sustainers, and that really has helped lift the program’s on the digital side and where digital retention for the overall programs have have been on the rise a little bit, and particularly with this organization that we case study today African Wildlife Foundation that was the sustainers program has been really one of the key to the success of really good online retention because we really quickly move folks from their first gift and have strategies to convert them to sustainers and then due to individual sustainers drives where it could be coupled with the match and really kind of back to really strong, evocative creative that goes back to for there in this mission is, you know, poaching of elephants and the crisis that’s going on there, but it works with other organizations to. And so the success of those programs and then having the data to make sure that you actually keep the retention of your sustainers is another really important factor because that there’s there’s low hanging fruit that that could be easily forgotten or missed by organizations on when credit cards expire and making sure that you really invest in that channel, you know, And it’s actually more channels that we’re discussing this morning. Not only sometimes email does not work to retain a sustainer, you actually need to use offline and send it direct mail piece or take it even further. And sometimes we’ll do telemarketing to see if we can get that boat that person back because their their lifetime value is greater than most other sources. Why do, uh, she would just have, like, 30 seconds? How come some How come sustainers stop sustaining? I think two reasons I think one is some sustainers don’t realize that they’ve became a sustainers so generally in the 1st 2 or three months on stage, it was a mistake, and that goes back to data making sure that when you when you confirm those sustainers that you actually tell them they’re sustainers. OK, there is like a threshold where they passed 13 and four, and then you got them. The other thing is credit cards. A little scripture expire expires. Or they or yeah, exactly. And they decide to have done it long enough because you kind of want sustainers toe almost go on autopilot and, you know, and then really, you still want to engage them, But you don’t need to constantly remind them that they’re making that gift. But you wanted still engage them on your mission. So those air to areas where I’d say that where you would lose sustainers. Okay, we’ve got to leave it there. That flu fantastic was awesome. All right? Yes, they’re both with. Thank you, Communications. Paul is the president, and Laura is soon to be co president, but currently director of account Services. This interview, like all the 1990 sea interviews brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits Macon impact. Thanks so much for being with non-profit radios. Coverage of 1990 si next week. Tech accessibility and culture of resilience. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing capital P by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers Regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to 444 999 are creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein. The With Me Next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Yeah, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at 9 to 10 p.m. Eastern time And listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential live life your way on talk radio dot And why easy? Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs Theo Best designs for your life Start at home. I’m David. They’re Gartner interior designer and host of At Home Listen, Live Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern Time As we talk to the very best professionals about interior design and the design, that’s all around us right here on talk radio dot N. Y c. 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Matt Scott & David DeParolesa: Reducing Donor Abandonment
From Amazon to Zappos, there’s a lot you can learn from e-retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online gifts. Our 19NTC panel, Matt Scott and David DeParolesa, reveal proven e-commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from CauseMic and David is at Give Lively.





Brenna Holmes & Chrissy Hyre: Welcome Your Donors The Right Way
Your donors now complete their online gifts at record rates. Have you got in place a multichannel welcome and nurture series to receive and steward your new donors? Our panel will get you started. They’re Brenna Holmes with CCAH and Chrissy Hyre from Innovation. (Also recorded at 19NTC)





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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow on Odo polyp ous if I heard that you missed today’s show. Reducing donors Abandonment From Amazon to Zappos There’s a lot you can learn from e retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online GIF ts Our nineteen anti seat panel Matt Scott and David de Para Lisa reveal proven e commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from cause *** and David is at Give lively and welcome your donors the right way. Your donors now complete their online GIF ts at record rates. Have you got an in? Have you got in place? A multi-channel welcome and nurture Siri’s to receive and steward these new donors. Our panel will get you started. They’re brenholz is with C ch and Chrissy hyre from innovation that’s also recorded at nineteen and TC. I’m Tony Steak to be the one we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dad, I’m a slash pursuing by weather CPAs guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is reducing donor Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. You know what that is? It’s a non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This interview, like all are nineteen ntcdinosaur views is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guests now are Matt Scott sitting closest to me. He’s CEO of Cosmic and David De Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively Welcome Welcome mat. Welcome, David. Thank you. Thanks, Tony. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you on DH mascot. Welcome back to non-profit Radio. Thank you. It’s good to be back. All right. Your topic here today is reducing donor. What’s a copy from e retailers? David, why don’t you get us started? What? Give us the Give us the headline in the lead. Sure. So this session is intended to help non-profits think about the full life cycle of thie experience of making a donation and all of the elements that could result in someone dropping off from completing a donation way. Want to, you know, bring in expertise from the consumer world. The world that most everyone lives in on apply it to this non-profit space. Okay. And just so in case there’s any question want you define abandonment for us. So someone starts a starts to donate two or starts thie intent, or has the intent to donate to your cause and then leaves in the middle of it. Right? Okay. Yeah. Okay, Matt, anything you want to add to the overview of our session? Yeah. I mean, I think when we’ve had a lot of conversations, one of the thing that I really enjoy about David’s perspective is you No way. Think about Amazon. One click check out. Right. We think about Netflix in terms of, you know, the user experience that we’re all used. Teo and I think that if we can copy some of those things and move them over to the non-profit space, we’re going to be a head as an industry. But if we’re thinking on ly about competing against other non-profits from a donor experience, we’re going to find ourselves in a lot of trouble because you’re starting setting the bar too low. You’re setting Well, yeah, you’re absolutely setting the bar too low, because we, as consumers, are also the people who are donating to charities, right? And if our expectation is for it to be a seamless process to collect a little information as possible to have unique, engaging content delivered to us if we’re not thinking like that as a nonprofit organization, we’re missing out on consumer behavior, which are the e retailers, that you want us to learn from that really broad base. So you know, we’re inspired by Amazon Zappos to some degree you thie experience at an Apple store, which, you know, in a way, is a kind of hybrid retail experience and generally taking best practices from that space broadly, even if it is in a specific retailer, it’s It’s some of the elements of what makes Annie retail experience common. For example, a simple donation, a simple check out flow a a checkup, though that doesn’t ask many questions but lets you get through it as fast as possible. A one click check out a digital wallet capability, the’s air, things that have worked for the for-profit sector and non-profit sector is catching up and we hope to help them get there. Yeah, why? What’s the What’s the problem? Why so slow? I mean, we’re all experiencing these things on the e commerce side. Why were we not recognizing that? Uh, the analogy between our our donors and ourselves as consumers? What’s the disconnect? I would say that there’s an access issue. There’s an access to technology that brings the retail style practices to the non-profit. Sectarian give Lively is a response to that problem, which is looking at the world of non-profit tech and seeing that elements like digital wallets are not common, that something that isn’t available in the A lot of other platforms but that is available on the give lively platform. So it’s those types of things that have kept non-profits behind. I mean, unfortunately, platforms or not innovating as fast as they can. And they’re not innovating with the consumer mindset that that us in just a few other players are. Okay. All right, so I started to add to that one of the things that I think is really interesting working with established non-profits, You know, you you look at these behemoths and they are their worst own worst enemy When it comes to technology, you look at the younger, more rapidly growing organizations, and those are the ones that are really out there able to adopt new technologies quickly. They’re not constrained by existing say, CR M systems or their, you know, existing, you know, ways of doing things. And and when you when you take a tool like give lively and you put it out there and you integrate with the C R m like sales force, you unlock that potential. And I’ve seen it time and time again, where established non-profits in particular they are their own biggest hurdle when it comes to getting getting in line with e commerce. Best practice? No. All right, all right. So why don’t you kick us off, Matt? What? Uh, let’s get kicked off with what we should what we should be learning. Where do we start? Yeah, I mean, I think David brought up a lot of really good points in terms of Amazon, and you’ve got, you know, a donor experience. But then what I’m really interested in and I think where we complement one another is on the content side. And so I like to always start with you know who is your target audience? What is the unique user experience that that person or persons wants tohave with your brand? And how can you make sure from the moment that they interact with your brand and are brought to your page to your checkout form that they understand you’re unique market position? And so I think that that’s really important to have a singular content strategy that’s very user focused. And, uh, if it’s okay handing it over to David because I feel like that’s where he picks up in terms of the e commerce checkout process and where that’s really critical in terms of the transition from content to check out. OK, yeah, I noticed matter-ness were on Mike, you’re more deferential than, uh Well, then all this *** that you were giving me before before. Before I turn the mike on, why don’t we talk about monthly giving, for God’s sake? But all of a sudden, my cousin, he’s like, uh, if you don’t mind, I’d like to pass it over to David. Very interesting. There can only be one New York around like you’re dominating. Yeah, you multiple turned. You know, talk about talk about best. I’m gonna start the guest personas start start creating that that is surrounded by New Yorkers right now. Yeah. You know, you’re only here. He’s being into forced deference. A submission sametz Alright, yes. Well, I’ll take your suggestion. The matter very politely requested It’s time for a break Pursuing the art of first impressions how to combine strategy analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition and had to make a smashing first impression with your potential donors. You will find it on the listener landing page at Tony that I may slash pursuing capital P for please. Now back to reducing donor-centric. Share your expertise. You did tick off a bunch of things. I wallet went one click, check out seamless, but we got we got a lot more time together that way. Gotta go into some detail. Yeah, and so you know, at first I think it be helpful too. Acknowledge what Matt mentioned in terms of thinking about storm the content, right? And the thing that keys in for me there is thinking about how the experience starts at the level of the ask and then the level of the intent of the donor. So to reduce abandonment, you want to get the right person to the checkout flow, right? So you want to start with the right people who respond to that message. And so you know what that’s doing It cosmic is creating messages that resonate at a very granular level with different constituencies in such a way that when they get to the checkout flow, they finished the check out great. And I think that okay, that thread is a thread that involves technology because it’s not only the channels in which that message is being sent, but then it’s how that story is represented on the donation page and through the check outflow and even after the checkout float. Okay, we’LL come back to that. I understand ITT’s all of spectrum. Yes. Ah, movement a process, Matt. What? The different how we identify the different constituencies for these granular messages. Yeah, No, you’re you’re getting at is like, what are the technical steps that need to be put in place? So let’s just take acquisition is a great example, right? So you’re you’re going to post up a variety of ads like paid social. And if you set up separate landing pages with separate checkout forms, that’s one way of identifying. You know, this ad directly relates to this check out page, and there is a continuum of content once you arrive there at that page and you know they arrived from there because you’ve set up different ones. The content can then be dynamic essentially for that constituents. And that’s where David talks a lot about stealing your thunder here. But you know, you you have you have that check out for him. That’s asking for his little information as possible. So capturing that email address in that zip code and getting right into the payment and and you’re getting right down to the nitty gritty then you’re worrying about Okay, now that I’ve already got this information, what additional information do I need to provide? But I’ve already processed the donation. That’s right, Yeah, So it’s thinking about what is Germaine to the donation experience as the only things that you should be asking a donor before the payment is actually made. You want to capture the dollars, so every affair to say, like with his few distractions, is possible. There’s no need to have AH on issue video on your or issue photos on your on your checkout page for donation. The person has already moved by your issues. Well, it depends in their different ways that that can be implemented. One way would be to have a page that’s both telling the story and allows you to make that seamless donation in the same view. Okay, and there’s some that do the jump, right? So there’s a storytelling page, and then you jumped to a donation form that’s on a different page, and I’ve seen it done both ways and, you know, way See it work both ways really depends heavily, though, upon how they get there, right? Like if they’re coming to your they’re experiencing your brand for the first time, where they haven’t, you know they need to be informed, right? And so another best practice is having called toe actions throughout your page. Right? So you’re not just one. So you’ve got big, strong, powerful image or something that draws that user in from a content perspective in a high c t es of donations and I think Sita Way got drug in jail on non-profit radio. A cz a previous guest Disappointed you didn’t know that lock myself away is a call to action, right? And to that point, I mean, I think that’s that’s another best practices. Give lively donation check out form can be embedded into your existing site so you can have this microsite like, let’s say, taken unbound page right. And you know that you’ve set up this unique page and you’ve got the both the story there and the narrative there, and then you’ve got a call to actions throughout the page. That’s best practice, because as they move down the content, there’s lots of opportunities to make that contribution. Okay, what’s an unbound page they’re not paying me to talk about on? I’m just kidding. Way were, It’s a wonder. Anything anyone think it’s a tool. You keep this up, I’m shutting your Michael Fair Fair. It’s a it’s a landing page tool that is really easy to use in turn end of setting up unique content on DH. Then you Khun, track that you know someone lands on that page and you contract that they came into your database specific to that content. Okay. Okay. So this is we’re getting to our segmentation of constituencies. Okay, Okay. All right. So now let’s go back to David. What more can you say about place? Things you need to have in place? Sure. So you know one thing that this let’s start at the very kind of high level, which is that a donation form should work if you’re going to reduce it. Abandonment of your donation form one. Someone’s in it. It better work on a mobile device, but it’s kind of a simple statement, but we’ve got to be passed out by now. I mean, everything should be mobile, but that’s not a body. But that’s not always the case. And they’re still donation forms out there that are asking for. I like to joke. It’s there asking for everything but your blood type. You know, it’s a it’s a twenty eighty step form that. Then at the end, you have a credit card entry field. Maybe, and maybe there’s an error in that process. Just over what kind of stuff? They all asking. But I don’t dare ask me. Study this So they’re asking for. You often will see full mailing address, even if that person has no is a digital savvy your digital only person. They’LL ask questions about, perhaps, how they got to our learned about the cause, which is a good question asked. But maybe not before the dollar is captured and can be inferred by some of the tracking that’s occurring. That brought them to the patient was That’s right, pages, etcetera. Okay, um, you know there are even in how the payment information is presented is an element that can be very confusing. So for some donation forms, they make you type or choose whether it’s a Visa card instead of just detecting. Yeah, why did he do that? I know it. And I can tell by the first digit they could tell that the battery ditches first for Justin. It’s welcome. And that’s not even that’s not unique to non-profits Know that. Was there e commerce mary-jo just to say that? I said, That’s laziness on behalf of those building those forms, okay, or that’s lack of capacity. Shoes is a diner’s club or MasterCard or visa or markets. It’s laziness. I mean, it’s easy to detect. It should be present on every single page is interesting. All right. So I don’t know if listeners were interested, but I am well, but it’s, you know, but the channel there are there’s data that shows that every, you know, hub spot ran a study and show that when you increase the amount of fields that you ask a person to complete, you end up over about two to three fields total. You get a fifty percent drop off. Oh, so it’s that high so And once you get to eight, which is many of what he’s talking about, right, you’re down to its well under single digits of conversion rate, which is a dismal. If you think about like you have a really strong contents from the person was into it, they made their way to your donation return until you ask them for their blood type. Yeah, I I also will say one of my pet peeves that, you know, non-profits continuously asked people for the same information over and over and over and over again. Right? So you know who this constituent is? You’ve sent them this email communication. You already know who they are there in your database, and you ask them to re identify all that information again. For what? Like why? You know, when you go to Netflix and you have your subscription to Netflix, they’re not asking you. Or if you’re in Dollar Shave Club and you decide to get shaving cream on top of your razor, no one’s asking you. By the way, could you tell us like what you’re you are in? Yeah. Like right? No, we know. Okay, save it and stop asking for repetition. All right? Yeah. Consolidate. I mean, consolidate fields as much as possible. Don’t ask for the same inspiration twice. What’s essential? I mean, I’m all right, so I’m thinking of the quintessential, you know, the Amazon checkout. It’s been so long since I did. My first time was on a purchase like everybody else. I obviously can’t remember that, but what? What, What? What, what? What’s actually essential. So I mean so in my view and the view that informed to give lively donation platform when we first launched it, it was nothing more than identifying information about that donor. First name last. Actually, in the very early days, not even first name and last name email address, payment information. That was it. You know, now there’s a little bit more in terms of full name, just enough to make sure that we’re doing receding the right way and all of the all of the tax deductible benefits, by the way. So payment information that includes the billing address You have to have the billing and not include Okay, so rate. So let’s get really specific. So it’s It is literally first name, last name, email address and credit card information, meaning nothing more than the number, the expiration date and the CVC code so you can process the donation without without telling you that’s not required. That’s right. And, uh, you know, one of our favorite partners that cosmic is another organization called touchpoint, which is amazing. You give them just too little little tip bits of information like about Tony. We’d find out what kind of bagel heeds you know on Wednesday because they can pull back all that information for for only thirty cents per constituent and give you everything about them. What property they own, what, what non-profits They give to their address everything, and so that’s One of the reasons why we like to give lively platform is you can take as little information as possible, get that donation and then just pay thirty cents. Because if you have drop off, that goes, you know, down fifty percent. When you’ve asked more than three questions, why not ask just as few questions as possible and go pay thirty cents for that information somewhere else? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you cannot go, and that’s getting into very sophisticated strategies in terms of augmenting date. Instead of asking for things up front, find other ways to get at it. You know, there are social networks that have advertising networks that have ways to link. For example, email address is back, too. Uh, that social, so that you don’t necessarily need to ask them. So then you learn more about that donor to those networks through your own work, rather than asking and risking the abandonment. That’s right, just the frustration do of it. Okay, um, go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say I think David should speak a little bit about, you know, the digital wallets, and that’s that is absolutely game changing when it comes to best practice. So take it from here. Thanks. So and we’LL get a mascot non-profit radio things there latto longest running part kapin most listen to podcasts. It’s also in order Mobile off deferential and generous welchlin the mike is on. Yeah, yeah, B b cut. Well, good to have Tony back on the show. I just like so we, you know, hear Give life. So that another session, actually that that I’m leading called digital while it’s so hot right now and in that session will talk about digital wallets. The concept. I mean, digital arts have been around for a long time, but in examples of them are PayPal. Apple pay, Google pay the’s are one click payment options that have in them a variety of security protections and data that gets easily shared without having to ask that door faster. Just talking about All right, so there’s no entry. What? You’ve entered a credit card once you’ve entered your address once, and you’re just using it over and over again in in this example of donation form on. They’re incredibly powerful, and they are people use them. The level of, you know, penetration of mobile wallets. is increasing increasing at all age groups, but particularly with younger foe. But in non-profits well, very few have actually have ever had access to it. So our platform has digital wall So you’LL see See it in. For example, If you go to malala dot org’s that’s one of our partners right on their home page You’LL see if you have a wallet on apple pear Groupe browser that you’re on you’LL see those buttons right there and you can make that donation very quickly If you’re on your phone, you’LL see it there. But most other platforms are not offering that service or they’re just now offering that service eso And but this is a service that we’re used to write. So think about buying a cup of coffee at a on using square and tapping with apple pay. You’re not. I also think like it would be it would be troubling if we didn’t at least mention this best practice for me. Commerce, which is the classic upsell, right? So I think one of the areas that I’ve seen the wall it works so well is when you’ve got you’ve got a recurring donorsearch, right, you’ve got this person who’s a member of your tribe, right? And one of our client team, Rubicon, stands out. Our mercy corps stands out where you have these sustaining donors who give monthly right. Then you have this urgent appeal that comes up. And because you have a really robots content strategy and your quantifying the impact of their recurring gift, you send them a text message that is a simple is them putting their thumbprint on to authorize an additional one time contribution for a wildfire in, you know, Northern California or whatever. It is incredibly effective for up selling for those who are on a subscription model a CZ. Well, as you know, you attend an event or whatever it is, it’s an easy way to take that best practice for me. Commerce, which is your existing customers, are your best potential you know, customers for for an additional service. Yeah, yeah, and those you know, those buttons should be front and center. So no ineffective donation form to reduce abandonment shows you easy ways to pay up front and suggests the best way to pay right on, right on that first screen. So, you know, looking at a donation from that works. Well, is one that may say you’re making a twenty five dollar donation monthly. Tap this one button and you’re done. You’re you’ve not even moved beyond that first page. You’ve really not even asked any additional questions of the user because the answer’s air embedded inside of a digital wallet payment s o very low friction. Easy to make donations much more secure. One of the objections of her, uh, from’s arounds streamlining like we’re talking about is the preservation of credit credit card information. Because then that then you’re implicated with Peace PCL complaining PC exactly that So that an acronym fell? No, not when I do it. Ok, ok. Thank you. Thank you. It’s personal. Personal credit information watching your mike is going down. It’s already been slowed down. You hear yourself? But no one else will. Yeah, I notice you’re only asking David questions. You know, I don’t not only get to speak. He says, Can I say something? I, uh, thought I should mention here is because Tony is not going to ask me. All right, so now you’re now you’re in your you’re implicating PC I compliance requirements, But if you’re accepting, you use digital wallets, you’re not. You’re not personally. You think the organization is not preserving the the information right? It’s the I don’t know what it’s called the host of the host of the wallet. Yeah, exactly what they were getting into the payment process. Non-profit. The payment process apparently doesn’t have to save the Yeah, I mean, I hope. And if I I hope no one listening to this who’s who is working for a nonprofit is ever dealing directly with PC high compliance like they should be using a vendor who is shielding them from that level of risk because that’s incredibly risky and a lot of a bureaucratic burden in order to get PC I compliant. So the payment processors under the give lively platform are stripe papal. Those air both PC I complaint writers in the case and in all cases platform like you’ve lively, never has access to a person’s donor-centric our information directly and through a wallet. What’s really smart about wallets is how they hide. Even they create one time use credit card numbers. Essentially, that’s an easy way to think about it. One time use numbers that he used every time you make a purchase so that there’s no one number goes down or gets, you know, used inappropriately, and it’s not affecting any other element of your credit history. So it’s secure on hidden from both the payment provider themselves as well as a platform for writer. No, certainly the non-profit. Okay, man, I’m gonna give you a break, actually, and I feel bad. I don’t really feel bad, but I’ll say I feel bad about the way I’ve treated you. So I’m going to give you the going to give you the wrap up because we just have, like, a twenty or thirty seconds or so let you clue how generous cosmic from clolery Thank you. Uh, I would say for any non profit organization who is out there, think about to yourself. What is the experience that you did? You really just turn? No. Okay. So paranoid. I don’t take my word for it, I guess. Think about the experience that you have with the brands that you love and think about how you feel when you’re asked lots of questions that are unnecessary and and try and channel that when you’re setting up your your donation form or when you’re selecting your vendor toe work with to process your donations because it’s that that’s the standard. The standard is not other non-profits. The standard is not your system that you’ve been using for three decades, and it works because it’s what we always used. The standard is how we interact with brands on a daily basis and how we spend our money on a daily basis, and it’s really important to think about that. Those brands have raised the bar your donors are experiencing that that high level of, of, of, of purchase flood. He’s he’s thank you, and they’re coming to expect it from you. That’s right, Yeah, Unless unless they abandon the process, that’s right and, you know, and then give Lively’s case, just plug us for a second. You know, we don’t charge money for our for access to our platform, so we’re enabling non-profits use digital wallet type technology and have that access and not have to pay for it. And I think that’s something unique, and I hope people take advantage of that. All right. It was shameless self promotion, but allowed with bilich thinking, I feel like I’m with the two Smart through smart promoter from cookies. Permit me to say Young Young Seo’s fifty six. I can’t say that. Alright on DH They are Matt Scott’s Yo of Cosmic and David de Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively, and this is Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit Technology Conference This interview Like all our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re free. Webinar came and went. It was tips and tricks for your nine. Ninety. You missed it. No problem. Watch the archive. Yes, the archive learned how to use your nine ninety as a marketing tool. The thing is so widely available from GuideStar Charity Navigator Attorneys general, Probably your own website. Let the nine ninety promote your work. That’s what the webinar helps you with. Wagner cps dot com Quick seminars, Then go to April. Now, time for Tony’s Take two be the one. This was inspired by a re union that I attended and had a hand in Ah of Air Force of former Air Force missile ears. We were all working in the Reagan years on Minuteman. Two nuclear missiles were all missile operators at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, and we got together way left there in the late eighties. We’ve been together a couple times, but only eyes our third time. So ah, lot of people haven’t been seen for years, and some even never even came to their other reunions. But the idea of everyone coming together, um, sharing old stories coming together like like it had been just a week. And for some, it’s been thirty years since we’ve seen them, but that common bond. So I encourage youto get people together from the different phases of your life, whether it’s elementary school, high school, college, whatever. Grad school, military neighborhood. If you’ve got ah, if you’ve got this, I don’t know. Affinity group sounds kind of formal, but if you’ve got these group of people, these folks who know each other and shared something, it’s such fun to get them together. It’s rewarding. It’s gratifying. It’s just it feels like being a kid again. Do it, do it. That’s what the video is about and you’LL find that video at tony martignetti dot com That is Tony’s Take two Now that a hundred percent of your donors complete their online gif ts u want to welcome them the right way? Here’s that from twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen NTC non-profit Technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This nineteen ninety si interview, like all of ours, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are brenholz homes and Chrissy hyre. They’re both with Chapman, cubine and Husi. Brenna, seated next to me is vice president for digital services and Chrissy is vice president Innovation Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back to each of you. You, you and Brenna has disclosed that thes these interviews have a secondary purpose for her. Chrissy, I’m sorry. Kinda married. That’s not Christy. Christy has disclosed there’s they have a dating. They have dating power. They do so definitely. Come on the show. Yeah, because your your dates will google you. They will find your non-profit radio interview. Yeah, and when they do that? I want you to inquire about the host. I’m really not interested in what they thought of your performance, What they think about the host and then let me know if it’s positive on Lee was not positive. It’s not positive. Silence is best. Just carry on with your date after that ostomel of that. That’s it. But we’re not talking about dating. We’re talking about making them well, we are actually making love you. Yeah, welcoming donors the right way is your your session topic. Um so, Chrissy, what a zoho overview. What are non-profits not getting quite right about welcoming? Let’s start with first time donors and will evolve in the conversation from there. But what we’re not doing quite right. Yeah, So I mean, you know, Brenna says this really Well, actually, but you really only get one chance to make a first impression. And so one of the things that a lot of organizations don’t do particularly well is showing folks exactly how much they care about the gift that folks are giving to them. And so, you know, one of the things that we really focused on our session today was thinking through. What are the ways that you connect people back to your mission back to the work that you’re doing, making them really understand the impact of the gift that they’ve just given and building that connection in that relationship so that they’re ready to take that to the next level, so to speak and give you another gift? Okay, on Brenda, how do we get started thinking about this process that we have for for donors? Yeah, think about everything from multi-channel perspective very much, not just the channel they gave the gift in, but really talking to them in multitude of ways. Because, as you know, everybody’s over saturated in lots and lots of media on DH non-profits have to do more and more to stay top of mind, get keep that good feeling moving forward to maintain that share of wallet as well. So the first thing that you start with, like especially for online donors, very appropriate here for Auntie Si is making sure that you’re customizing the confirmation page and the auto respond or email to that donation. A lot of it is just like the default setting. Non-profits never remembered a change on just updating that can go very long way customizing the confirmation page and the acknowledgement letter that yeah latto respondent your mail going a little bit further and adding direct mail into the mix by sending your online donors direct mail. Acknowledgement letter goes even more like We love that wonderful. Now I did have a panel just maybe an hour or so ago. I want half ago. That said, you know you want to keep your donation process streamlined, Ask a few questions possible now, in order to get the the direct mail address. That’s going to be another level of questions you have to ask. Well, no, You mean you pretty much can’t make a credit card donation without putting in the billing address anyways, so it’s already part of the foreign fields to process again. OK, well, not according to those two guys. I guess it depends on the platform. Two friends on your processor, I guess. Sure, right? Yeah, they were saying they were pretty clear that you do not have to ask for address. You can, but you don’t have to. The majority of non-profit websites today do they do rice. But their point was, that’s not the best idea. Right, But But now so well. But this is not in conflict, right? We gotta bring this tio black and white. Everything not so clear. So, you know, I mean, you’re saying that’s a lycan ideal process. Ideal practice. Acknowledging an online gift, I’LL find through the mail offline. Okay, there could be another way of acknowledging that online gift could be through phone. A phone number could be another way. Okay, uh, Wes life calls. Auto House. Okay. Latto caught was latto calls. Yes, was a pre recorded call very inexpensive that, like the executive director of the organization, can record. And you send that to all of your new donors to welcome them to the organism. Thank them and welcome them. Yep. Okay. Interesting. Um, okay, Uh, I’m not sure. So we’re way. Start with audit of our current process. Always a place to start. Okay. What are we looking for? What? Some common sticking points and bad practices that we want to be conscious. Seldman are loaded. So we’re looking at, like, what already goes out, right? What’s the default? So again, for online donors, there is the default confirmation page. That’s usually very receipt transactional basis that has all of the semi critical information from the processors point of view. But it’s not very donor-centric on DH. It certainly doesn’t show the impact that the gift is going to make for the non-profit who’s receiving the donation. Same thing with that otter responder email. It’s generally plain text, very receipt based. Well, we want to do is build out stewardship touches like turned these receipts into nurtured opportunities so that people are bonding with the organization and moving past that transactional relationship. Same thing with their direct mail receipts. You know, most organizations send them out, at least to their direct male donors, if not also to their online donors. But you can improve upon the look and feel of that package, make it really stand out in the mailbox so that it doesn’t look like one of your fund-raising appeals. Or it doesn’t look like a bill from, you know, your health insurance company or anything else right on DH. Just show that love right up front. No one has ever said, Stop thanking me like in the history of effort, So that’s something that we’re constantly trying to reinforce with that, and then the newer, like the newer channels, all of the innovation with SMS and auto calls, or even live calling like those air usually add on so they wouldn’t show up in your audit. But they’re nice iterations to go above and beyond on DK and be done with volunteers and things like that out of my Mahler’s remembers. I love a working board. Yeah, put him to work, Christie. What you wantto I mean, I think that that’s exactly right. Everything Brenna said. I think the one thing to consider and your audit as well is making sure is, Brennan noted, at the top of our conversation about that multi-channel experience. So just because someone is giving online, don’t assume they don’t want to hear from you offline. You know, a lot of us almost all of our media interactions are happening in on a screen. And so to actually get that piece of paper is something that people really remember really means a lot to them, and it’s significant. The other thing is, don’t be afraid to reach people on their phone to think them. You know, a lot of people have sort of a bad taste in their mouth about what telemarketing is. Nobody’s gonna be upset if you call them to say thank you. And nobody’s gonna be upset if you text them to say thank you. And if you text them to say thank you, they’re definitely gonna see and they’re definitely gonna remember it. Okay, Um, so after we have our audit, what’s our next step? We got it. We got to start improving improving our practices. Copy. Maybe a little bit of time. Couple steps in time. Your creative Seymour Brennan. Yeah. So it’s, you know, it is about building up the that content into both being relevant for that specific donorsearch for Don’t hurt I ppe Did they make a one time gift at what dollar value did that dollar value kicked them into e-giving circle of some level. And then you need to acknowledge that in a separate way, you can also use the type of appeal that they responded Teo to enforce. Thank you. Copy as well. So like, did they respond to something about puppy mills versus something about horse meat? Like having that content flow through into the acknowledgement program and into the welcome Siri’s afterwards to keep them going tohave a next action opportunity eyes A fantastic way to start. Is it right that our first time donorsearch retention read? Uh, non-profit wide is like around twenty five percent. We typically see closer to a third to being healthy, but oh, I’m going down. I’m citing how bad it is. Yeah, it has been going down is going down. It is going on the wrong direction we got. And that’s honestly, like a lot of that data is coming out around the last few quarters of twenty twenty eighteen. So there’s a lot of reasons right now as we kick off year to start really thinking about how you’re bonding people to the organizations that you’re fund-raising for. All right. All right. Um, we’ll also talk about designing a multi-channel welcome and nurture nurture. Siri’s is that Is that basically what we’re talking about? Our nurture. Siri’s a little bit. I mean, I think I think the acknowledgement process should be part of that nurture mint, right. It’s the first interaction for a lot of organizations post that gift. The first outbound communications and a lot of ways s oh, it’s a natural bridge to the welcome Siri’s and kind of steward that stewarding them throughout that relationship. So longfield we should not be setting anything and forgetting about it. Everything needs to be very conscious decisions about what copy we’re sending to who, what content they’re getting when on the touchpoint. I mean, all of the data that we have shows that the more of those pieces of touch our personally identifiable information right, like whether it’s postal address or email address or phone number, the more of those contact point that we have on for a constituent hyre their retention will be and the hyre their value will be to the organization on a lifetime level. So, like while it might be easier to not get that postal address, I want that postal address. There’s so much more value. Okay? Yeah, You know what? There there are other Point was don’t do it in the donation. All right, that’s in the donation on the donation pages. Waken ask for that later on that they may be right after the gift is made. Would you like to share your your mail? Now that makes it option over. Okay, Right. But then it raises the question of why, right? You which you have to have a good answer, would like to be able to think we’d like to be able to send you something. I don’t know. All right, but, you know, incentive based. Thank you. They’re always like people love swag. So you could do that. That’s definitely an office sticker and done in Dustin. Yeah, okay. What they done Injustice e. Did you get dates with the kind of lines like that? This’s kind of witty banter like that. Future dates or watching? Amazing. Oh, my God. You’re turning right there. Okay, so I just realized I just put two and two together. You that’s gonna happen in the future, too, is not only in the past. Oh, my God. And this is going to be more relevant. More, more. It’s a more recent about making love you. So in other words, what do you think of the host? That’s what I want to know. Okay. Uh, Christy date. What do you think of the host? Keep which it’s Tony. As tony martignetti dot com is the best way. Or you can use the contact page at tony martignetti dot com from and I never hear from you again. I think the time you said I think, think of the time I’m saving you. Thank you so much if they come, if they beating you up, I feel about you know if if they make it through over this threshold, right and you know that it’s it’s really more than yeah, it’s more than superficial thinking past this. They say they watch the whole video like we haven’t gotten into a ton of things, but I can try to learn more. We’LL see Next time just roughly halfway in thistle happened roughly twelve minute mark. So? So if they hear this, they making twelve minute mark. You know, I think there’s potential definitely beyond the average. Definitely all right time for our last break text to give. Get their five part email. Many course to dispel myths around mobile giving. You know donations don’t have to go through the donors phone company that puts a cap on GIF ts. There’s a smarter way with no cap. Mobile giving does not have to be limited to single or double digit gif ts. To get the email. Many course. Dispel the myths you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. We’ve got lots more time for welcome your donors the right way. Okay, so we’re, like only halfway in. So what else do we need to talk about if you don’t? Your panel yet? We did it. So one third, seventy five minutes. Talking about what else? What else? On Let’s broaden it a little bit now. So not on ly first time donors, but volunteermatch comes a donor. Small, small gift donorsearch a mid level or higher level donor. What do we need to do to make them love us? Chrissy? Yeah. So I think this is actually really great question. So thank you for asking. It s o. You know, essentially, I think that there are ways Tio Tio integrate people into new parts of our organization. I think one of the easiest things for folks to understand is upgrading folks to monthly giving. And how do you start to think those people in a way that feels really special and bonds them to that program you already know? They’re exceptionally bonded to the work that you’re doing. And so how do you start to think them in a way that makes them feel like, Oh, my gosh. Now we’re part of an even more special piece of this community, right? So, you know, in our session, we talked a lot about you know, when you, for example, are thinking a monthly donor. Often do you want to thank them? Do you wantto Brenda calls it waking the bear. You know, where you kind of like your calling out to them? Do you want to tell them? Every month you’re giving me a monthly gift, and then, you know, where do you want? Oh, yeah. You know, you want to take him every month. I mean, so there we were talking about it also talked about splitting the baby there because there are philosophical differences and conversations there. I think the that standard used to be Don’t wake the bear, right? Don’t remind them that they’re giving every month they will leave. Oh, my gosh, that can’t be it anymore. We all have so many subscriptions in our life, whether it’s Netflix or Lulu or you know, all of these things, that if they don’t feel good about it, then when the card expires or is stolen or core compromised not going to bother and I drop them might drop it, right? So So we had some people in this action that we’re talking about quarterly, right? Maybe kind of following up in a different way, a different time period. So it’s not every month, but I think you can do monthly as long as you are using it as a nurture touchpoint. It’s not just a receipt like you don’t want anything you give to your donors to just be a throwaway effort. If you’re taking the time to send it, you wanted to actually mean something to them. So if it’s literally just a receipt, how much value does that really provide? Like not a lot. OK, so something impactful for that month. Way reached. Yeah, I don’t know. Nothing’s coming to mind, but that’s why you’re the consultants in that. And I’m the consultant plan e-giving. Yeah, you know, one of the go ahead. You know, I’m just flushing out why I don’t have an answer. I don’t no more. No more detailed needed on that. I don’t have a suggestion, I should say, Well, one of the things that you know could be a really impactful way to leverage that Thank you. Moment is to kind of look at your sustainers file in winter, people the most likely to fall off of your file and then take that opportunity to do, like an exceptional thankyou. So we see you lose a lot after between one, three and four, right? Exactly. So maybe that’s the month where you send that hand written note. That’s like we know you are. We love you. We see you right? If you already you’re sending tote bags or calendars in your acquisition or something like that. Leveraging that with a special note two two sustainers at the quarter mark for the six month mark way have clients that do, like all out at your anniversary. Your thank you for being here for one year with us, you know, making it about them. There was miles so now and then again, tying it to the impact and, like people want to make impact and they want to feel important. And that’s true whether this is their first ten dollars gift or their thousand dollar gift or their one million dollar gift. And so figuring out the way that you say thank you that feels like they’re making that difference, that that matters. That’s part of a good donor experience, you know, And I think that carries through whether it’s sustainers or like an event volunteer who’s becoming a donor for the first time. That’s a different level of engagement with the organization and the fact that they have that history already with you eyes very powerful. And so, if you can reference that relationship in the content as well, that will go much further and building strengthening that relationship in the long term. Um, a lot of this subsumed in what we’re talking about is having these systems systems in place on DH, constantly tweaking them. Voice just cracked like I’m a fourteen year old is coming twelve fourteen. You gotta have these systems in place and somebody will be monitoring them. Christie, to your point, you know you can’t just set it and forget it. Or one of you said that I’m sorry, whose you bring up, but, um okay, so who’s responsible for these systems? Is this is this is in the development to Development department depends on the non-profit. It’s definitely a collaboration between, like some level and development marketing each non-profit is configured in a different, slightly different way. So, like, who owns things would change, But yeah, the data is really important on and having a two directional or multidirectional sink of key data components so that you can condition allies content based on those relationships from other channels. In other words, like sinking between your cr m and your email Exactly. Your texture responded. Yep. Yeah, and vice versa to write. If we are sending those offline acknowledgements toe online donors, you need that level of information. Ideally, there’s some source codes in there. So you know what sort of relationship they had with you before Andi, you know what sort of appeal? Our issue they came in on. So again, Was it dog me? Are you know, brovey meals are? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that’s all very important. You don’t have the infrastructure setting that I always like. You know, you got to get your house in order before you invite people over, right? And that’s more about acquisition costs. But data is also super important. Like you can’t. You can start and then build and have a plan to scale because everybody can’t do everything right away. But you got to start with clean data. So can I ask a question? Is that not OK in this setting? Okay, So beat you up so much. How could I possibly say no to im those now, everyone? Yeah, Kristie hyre non-profit. So, like, what would you say about, like, not letting am not letting great be the enemy of good. So, like, invokes air. Just like we we don’t have the bandwidth for all of the data collection or all of the data sank. Like, where? Where is that starting point? Yeah, well, I mean, I think it depends on where you’re getting most of your gifts into, Like, what channel? You want to start with the focus on right, Because bang for the buck. If you’re If most of your gifts are checks in the mail, let’s focus on those confirmation acknowledgement letters, the receives and and the welcome kit direct mail package kind of offline pieces. So you don’t have to worry about the email side of the world if the date is not playing nicely right away. Vice versa. Obviously, here at ntcdinosaur mary-jo online focused, you start on the online site and Luckily with the online stuff you usually have the the thinks like you don’t need to sing because your email marketing system is in the same system. Is your donation processing system doesn’t have to be right plugging You could have a husband spoke solutions at that point, too. But for most of them, they are most of our clients, especially so you can excuse me. You can live also going over, yeah, latto happening at this table. A lot of personal latto personal, something momentous person and not a cheap hormones. So you can. You can create a somewhat cohesive donor experience with siloed channels. It is possible it just takes a lot more like work on an ongoing basis. In Official, it’s very inefficient. So I get out. You know, we talk about how much work it takes to set up the process in the beginning, to get a multi-channel like really integrated surround sound campaign happening. But if you’re not doing that, you’re putting in the leg work all the time to make sure that you don’t sound like two different organizations. An email indirectly, that’s very bad practice. Yeah, have some of the questions were some of the questions you got in your session that you thought were particularly interesting or I don’t know if they could be provocative, but interesting is good. Yeah. WeII did get questions about, like, just testing. What tide of creative treatments. People should focus their time on to test on DH. Tarsem. It depends, obviously, depends on the channel, but I think a lot of it for anything that will email and direct mail. Specifically, it’s trying to get people into the content in the first place. So whether it’s your subject line and send her name and email or your teaser on your outer envelope in the mail, both of those air very similar from a user experience standpoint on their very low bar. Easy tweak tests. Teammate teasers on outer envelopes. They work. Oh, they’re so important. They do? Yeah, that’s a good one example of a couple of good ones. I mean, for our for acknowledgements. Thank you. Gift receipt and close. Like, very clear. Okay, this is not an appeal, right? All right, we’ve got for acquisition. Oh, God, we’re off. We’re off on your own time. But I’ve always wondered about this, because when I see these things, and it’s not at all what I do know. What’s a good Christy? What’s a good acquisition? Uh, what do you call these on? The outer sabelo Theo. Good acquisition. What kind of depends on what’s inside or the organization. But anything that talks about matching gift urgent. Well, urgent. Open immediately that work. Sure, people respond to that Second notice reminder. Special gift enclosed for free gift. Yeah, free gift and clothes. I could notice that I didn’t notice. We’Ll stamp like reminders. They have the stamp it rough. It looks like it was damned. Yeah, Looks like it was a hand written. Oh, anything. Anything that looks like a human touched it. We call it the power of the paper clip because like, you can’t machine that. So if it anything that feels like humans have touched it will automatically get more attention. But it is a machine printing that Oh, yeah, but it looks like you’re just trying to create the experience of life came off their desk. But you people believe that mean yes, we’re not wear not I do believe this stuff like a human actually wrote that or somebody’s coming. Somebody had a stamp on ink pad and a stamp. I think it depends on the size of the organization. Like somebody’s probably not going to believe it as easily from AARP, but they will believe it from their local U S P c A. Well, so it just depends. Yeah. Alright. I’m really surprised that second notice open open urgently. Renewal is a very powerful word as well. So having renew does well yeah, renew your membership right on the teeth. Er, something like that. Okay, we’re hearing everything. You’re turning those. The winner was the other one Free. Free? Yeah. Just just a word. Free Well attached to something so free. Some very powerful words. Just free. Just wait. Just wait, OK? We got another, like, two minute and a half or so two minutes. What? What else? What else? Questions. Other question. They were good. Oh, gosh. You know, I feel like a lot of people had questions. Agent about sort of what it meant to take their online. Thank you. Experience offline. Dahna Few. There was a lot of questions about printing and paper. Yeah, favorite. Everyone’s favorite. Well, cause some of its first. So some organizations like conservation organizations are very paper free on DH. So but having the numbers that actually show that people who give to receive packages to acknowledgment gifts are better donors than people who don’t can make the case to the board members or to your CFO or whoever else that, like we really should think about this at some level. Maybe we’re not mailing every online donor. Maybe it’s not five dollar donors or ten dollar donors, but maybe at the fifty dollar donors level, those folks are like, worth that added investment. So having that numbers to back it up is really helpful, and any time you could decrease the time to second gift is huge on. Typically, most non-profits see one gift a year on average, whatever time of year that is. If it’s not sustainers. If you khun, change that twelve months between first and second gift to two months between first and second gift because people you have a greater lifetime value and hyre retention we’re seeing, I mean, especially with new donors, because they’re giving habits haven’t been cemented. Get we’re seeing anywhere from forty five to sixty five percent hyre retention rates across the board and hyre values. So it’s amazing. Okay. Okay. Christy, I’m gonna give you last words, like, fifteen seconds of motivation about, you know, making them love you. Oh, gosh. Well, that’s a lot of pressure. I know. You know, I think that if you don’t know where to start, just say thank you. Say thank you every way you can say it sincerely and say in a way that really means a lot to the folks who have given you their time, their money, their actions, whatever that looks like. It really goes a long way to improve your donor’s experience. All right, that was Chrissy hyre. She’s vice president of Innovation, Chapman, cubine and Husky. And sitting next to me is Brenda Homes, Vice president, Digital services Also at Chapman cubine, Cassie. And you are with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen Auntie Si twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. This interview, Like all of ours this year brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Come see. Ch is in sponsoring brovey radio. That is a great question to bring them when you bring that back to back to back to the main office way. We’LL do that. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Next week, Google grants with the head of Google. Add grants Michelle her Tato, also from nineteen. Auntie Si. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Pursuant online Tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven technology enabled Tony dahna em a slash pursuing capital P. Wagner CP is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternate network e-giving Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. 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Nonprofit Radio for April 7, 2017: The Agitator’s Donor Retention & Your Content Strategy

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Roger Craver: The Agitator’s Donor Retention

Roger Craver is The Agitator and his book is “Retention Fundraising.” He has strategies to help you keep the donors you’ve got. (Originally aired April 10, 2015)

 

 

 

Brett Meyer & Katie Carrus: Your Content Strategy

What should you create for the communications channels where you’re active? How do you stay consistent with your mission? Who’s responsible? Brett Meyer is director of strategy for Think Shout and Katie Carrus is director of online communications at Humane Society Legislative Fund. (Originally aired April 17, 2015)

 


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Hello and welcome tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host i’m going in from emerald isle, north carolina today because the show must go on. We have a listener of the week abila anis, she tweeted. Tony is a snarky host who tells it like it is now what non-profits need to be successful, i would’ve preferred charming or ah charlie rose knockoff would’ve been nice, snarky, probably accurate, but who cares about accuracy? Facts are overrated. She named it best non-profit podcast on her block fact check that is accurate. She’s at abre auctioneer and auctions generosity dot com abila thank you very much for the kind words, but in your block post you could’ve mentioned my youtube channel isn’t mentioned that one it’s really tony martignetti r e a l abila anise congratulations on being our listener of the week oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into noma phobia if you called me with the idea that you missed today’s show the agitators donorsearch retention. Roger craver is the agitator and this book is retention fund-raising yeah, strategies to help you keep the donors. You’ve got that originally aired on april tenth, twenty fifteen and you’re content strategy what should you create for the communications channels where you are active? How do you stay consistent with ambition? Who’s responsible brett mayer is with think shout and katie caress from the humane society just later fundez that originally aired april seventeen twenty, fifteen, twenty two non-profit radio on stanford social innovation review responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers may be a spelling dot com here is roger craver with the agitators donor-centric i’m really glad that roger craver, the agitator is with me. He’s, the agitator at the agitator dot net he’s been shaking things up for a long time in big ways. He helped launch organizations like common cause greenpeace, the national organization for women and amnesty international. Damn that’s impressive. His book is retention fund-raising the new art and science of keeping your donors for life published by emerson and church he’s at roger craver on twitter and right now he’s on non-profit radio welcome, roger craver. Thanks, tony it’s. Great. To be with you, it’s. A pleasure, it’s. A real pleasure to interview the agitator. I love that the agitator that’s cool like, thank you. Did you think about the anarchist? Did you consider that or no it’s? No, i don’t need that much chaos. I think they’re stirring things up in agitating ways. Good. Okay, that’s sufficient? I understand. Um, why was there a need for a book called retention? Fund-raising? Well, for the last ten years, possibly fifteen years american non-profits and european non-profits have been basically losing mohr donors than they’re gaining. And that is that is a real problem, not only for the present, but for the future. The history of fund-raising before then was the donors were fairly easy to come by, and the cost of acquiring them was relatively inexpensive. And so there was a sort of burn and turn mentality. That so what if we lose, the donors will will get new donors and simply replaceable that’s not possible anymore. And so people who are caring about their organizations future need to be caring about holding on to the donors they have. Early in the book, you cite a twenty thirteen a f. P association of fund-raising professional study that says that ah, a few things, but it starts with flat fund-raising every every hundred dollars raised from new donors was offset by one hundred dollars in losses that’s, right? And it got worse. It got worse in two thousand fourteen, it was off by one hundred six dollars really way are going the wrong way. Um, and then also that there was negative growth in the number of donors for every hundred dollars for every hundred donors acquired, one hundred seven were lost. That’s, right, that’s, right. Pretty a pretty frightening statistic when you couple that with the fact that the number of non-profit has grown enormously in the last thirty years. It’s grown from about six hundred thousand to a million. Five hundred thousand non-profits so many more non-profits chasing far fewer donors. That, in essence, is the problem. And why retention is so important, many more charities chasing many fewer donors. Right? Alright, so that is clearly unsustainable. Um, all right. So what we gonna do about this? Well, that’s, what i asked myself after after watching these statistics for a long time, i decided there there really has to. Be it empirical way too find out why donors leave on what we can do to keep them in the bowl. Yes, the study and so we set out to do and did a two year study of two hundred fifty non-profits in the united states and in the united kingdom and survey tens of thousands of donors to determine why they leave, and then what steps on organization could take to hold on to them? And that it is the findings from that study that i’ve been encapsulated in this, uh, in this book, along with some quite practical suggestions on what organizations khun due to stem this hemorrhaging, we’re going to get to those because that you call them retention winds. Um ah, finger pointing is not particularly valuable, but i’d like to do some anyway. My show, we’re going to do whatever the hell i want. Where do you think that? How do you think this problem arose? This lays a fair, lackadaisical attitude about how we treat our donors and doesn’t matter. We lose, some will gain more back where does the fault line you think? Well, it arose from the days when it was so easy and inexpensive, too acquire donors and at a time when direct response became very popular way of acquiring donors, and so they the mindset became sort of it’s it’s easier to sign the purchase order for direct mail lists and printing than it is to really worry about how to take care. I don’t owe rather casual, okay, so we consign this purchase order for an acquisition, mailing campaign or whatever, whatever channel we use acquisition, campaign and that’s easier than being interested, active and evaluating and then improving the way we treat our donors exactly, because the the reality is that treating a donor well takes thought takes work, takes planning and, uh, takes the willingness to build a relationship between the organization and the donor and that that involves a lot more than simply mailing a letter or making a phone call. And i love that we’re talking to someone who has studied this problem. I noticed a non-profit radio last couple of weeks, i’ve been saying introspection a lot this, but it just seems to be coming up with a number of guests that non-profits need to be introspective about whatever whatever subject we’re talking about. This there’s not enough it’s critical self evaluation? No, there isn’t. And one of the one of the reasons for that there’s a there’s a so called where there’s a horrible jargon term called brett best practice. Okay, what in the earth best practices are? I don’t know and i’ve been doing this for fifty years, but people latch onto that term and they most often compare their organization with other organisations and say, well, if we’re we’re doing about as well as the other other guy, so we must be using best practices but that, you know, there’s, no interest, thie other the other organization might be doing it badly. You can’t you can’t just say that we were consistent with others they maybe, maybe underachievers. And by the way, we have non-profit radio we have george in jail, but best practices has been used so often that i’m not even sure that’s jargon anymore. It’s dahna it’s more like cliche, but we should send send you do instead of jargon jail within you teo ilsen ugo cliche camp union are you near an airport? There’s a jets taking a knife in your back about thirty miles away but one just came over, so okay, well, maybe we’re being a zombie that kept going. It didn’t stop, right? Okay, we would’ve heard it if it stopped. All right. So we’ll put you in cliche camp, which doesn’t sound that bad joke. It’s like for minor offenders. That’s a juvenile would be in there that trade. I don’t use it. No, i don’t think there is such a thing is best practice. And i’ve been hearing state of the art a lot too. Maybe that’s replacing best practices, but there’s, just a substitution. All right, spare us and thought thought leadership we could we could talk all day about jargon jail don’t leadership. Yes, i know there’s a lot of it in non-profits and that’s. Why? Non-profit right there has drug in jail. Sometimes i let offenders off easy and other times probation is it’s harder to come by. All right, we’re gonna go out for a break. And when roger and i come back, we’ve got a good amount of time. We’re going to talk about ah, some of these retention wins that are easy to do and and had a help you build trust with your current existing donors so they don’t depart, stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent we’re pre recorded this week. I’m sorry, i can’t send ah town and city live listener love but you know that i love are live listeners so that’s out to each of you listening live podcast pleasantries those on the time shift, wherever you are, whatever device whatever time. Whenever however many days or weeks later, you listen to non-profit medio pleasantries to you and never forget our affiliates. Very important affiliate affection out to each of our affiliates throughout the country non-profit radio was hurt. Okay, roger craver. Now, how can we be sure that these retention winds are not cloaked? Best practices? Well, so he could be sure based on empirical data as measured from the responses of ah, thousands and thousands of donors. There’s. No conjecture here on my part. You know, there’s there’s, lots of so called best practices dahna where the people say, well, you know, you ought to print your thank you notes on a very high quality paper. Or you ought to get him out within twenty four hours. Or you need tio send x number of cultivation pieces with no. Asks and all that, of course, is is pure tribal wisdom, so our best practice, whatever you want to call it. So here we wait. In this study, we measured what people care most about and what they don’t care about and put it in priority order according to their responses, and came up with a way of the of isolating the seven drivers duitz that make for retention or flipside of retention of courses is attrition. And, you know, tony, all all of this is really based on apart from our empirical data there’s a lot of common sense here, but common sense, it turns out, is a fairly rare commodity. Ah, the business of building relationships, which is what donorsearch tension is all about is based on two, two things consistency and reliability. None of this, uh, listening to this program have serious personal relationships that don’t have an element of substantial element of consistency and reliability. If i if i say to my spouse, i’m i’m going to meet you at seven thirty, and i’m persistently, uh, late or early or inconsistent with that. That relationship is not goingto laugh the same the same when it comes. To your have you been talking to my wife? You’re describing my marriage? Let’s, let’s keep personalities and personal lives out of this, shall we? Alright? Well, people just translated into into the non-profit world if i if i receive a on appeal a prospect appeal let’s, say from from an animal organization and it talks about rescuing puppies and cat and i send them a contribution. And the next thing i know, i get an acknowledgement letter about the oceans and let’s save some whales that is not consistent, and i will not likely be back to that organization with another gift or if they send that acknowledgement letter and it says roger carver instead of roger craver call their their help line, and i get a rather surly or non carrying clerk, and he says, well, i may try to get to it as soon as i can and isn’t very helpful. I’m not going to go back with another gift because that’s an unreliable organization, so we have to understand that relationships are built on trust and the two pillars of trust or consistency and reliability, and therein lies the key to retention because it leads to the next element of of retention, which is understanding the donors, the importance of the donors attitude, you know, it’s it’s, not it’s, not the donors behaviour that we should be concerned about behavior in the sense of transactions giving money or not giving yeah, donors attitude that we need to care about because the organization dahna determines what that attitude is going to be by the organization’s action. Yeah, when you use organization is doing things that affect the donor positively, then the donor’s attitude will lead to behaviour that makes transaction increases the size of a gift renews the membership, whatever, whatever the desired outcome. But it’s, not the donor per se that is to blame are not to blame. It is the organization’s action that determined how that donor feels about the organizations have something that folks really need to understand if they’re serious about donor-centric we’re also talking about perception, right? How do they perceive? Perceive your organization? Is it professional? Does it care about me as a donor? Aside from all the programmatic important work that it’s doing? But how does it treat our relationship that’s, right? And that that tony that is paramount in ah, donors, psyche, no, they people hyre non-profits to do a variety of of a number of jobs sometimes is to make them feel good sometimes it’s, to enable them to be able to tell their peer group that they’re doing this or that sometimes it’s, because they want to do a specific thing, but very seldom is what is that what the organization claims that is in their appeals? Many people really don’t care that you have ten regional offices or that your ceo has appeared six times in the new york times? None none of that is important. Yet organizations just love talking about themselves, and nothing is more deadly and building a donor relationship that let’s move into these retention winds, which i’ll remind people are just reiterate these air based on empirical study, not not conventional wisdom or would just tribal wisdom that has been repeated at conference after conference. Just because one organization does it a certain way and they’ve been successful doesn’t mean that that’s going to be successful universally it’s not really lesson that’s amore that’s an anecdote? Um okay, hyre you like saying thank you? That sounds pretty simple. Why does it? Why does this need to be? Why does need to be said? Well, it needs to be said because sixty four percent of american non-profits don’t bother thanking their donors. We could start, we can start right there two thirds to two thirds of gifts or not not acknowledged and thanked you’re saying are not are not acknowledged or thank some. Some of that two thirds is acknowledged the sense of a tax receipt, but a tax receipt doesn’t go very far to build it toward building a personal relationship. That’s cold? Yeah, yeah, patane has retained this receipt for your tax advisers evaluation? Yeah, exactly, exactly so they the importance of a thank you is that it is the it is an initial step in building a relationship on we’ve learned a couple things through this study that that air quite important one is it needs to be personal, and by that i don’t mean personalized i mean, personal sounding and warm, warm of heart and meaningful to the donor not necessarily long, but it really has to be real, not we’re. We’re so happy to have received your twenty five dollars, gift, it will be put to immediate ineffective use sincerely, x y z. That is not a that is not a thank you. Rather it is. Dear tony, your check arrived. I can’t tell you how happy it’s going to make sammy who tomorrow will have not only a meal, but he will have a toy for christmas on dh so forth so it needs it really needs to connect the donor to the organization and the donor’s gift to a beneficiary in a real sense of the of the word, something as something way before you get timely there’s no automatic rule that it has to go out within twenty four hours, but it should go out promptly after receipt of the gift. Because we in the studies we we’ve done the preferential time is forty eight hours, but donors of forgiving of taking longer than that what they’re not forgiving of are these form printed, impersonal, thank you’s that just ring ring hollow. So that’s that’s the importance of saying thank you? One of the things you mentioned that i want to emphasize is that the thank you doesn’t have to be long? It doesn’t. I’ve heard this and said it many times on the show i heard it from guests. To be genuine and sincere does not require something long. No, i mean, i love you. If it’s if it’s said in a heartfelt way three words that’s an awful lot to a relationship. That’s your right. That’s it that’s an outstanding analogy. All right. Oh, and the book points out that there’s, um, resource is available around. Thank you’s. You have. Ah, there’s a thank you letter clinic at sophie, which is the showcase of fund-raising inspiration and innovation and your vory thoughtful to point out that people can lift thank you letter ideas from there, but not copy and paste. No, not copy and face. But take, uh, lisa sergeant has put that together and done a terrific job, and she she has an attic full of ah, wonderful. Thank you. Uh, campaigns in there and get inspired by it. And by all means use that. You know, shaul had a saying the mediocre borrow genius steals and there’s. Lots of good stuff on sophie that’s that’s worth looking at that will give you ideas. And this thank you. Clinic is certainly one of them. All right. Mediocre borrow and the genius steals. I’m in the wrong business. We gotta transcend the law’s a little more often, but there we go. You want us to be boring? What do you mean what’s behind that? Be boring. Let’s go back to the to the term consistency, one of the one of the realities of painful realities among most non-profits is they get tired of their of their same message, and as a result, because they’re bored. Uh, they they hyre another copy writer or the same copywriter and say let’s, let’s do something fancy or something that glows in the dark. Something different, something exciting? Well, that is that is not only a horrible waste of time and money. It’s also destructive of relationships, consistency is important and that’s what i mean by be boring. You may be tired of the same message you, mr or mrs organization of same message, but the donor isn’t tired of the same message. They they joined for that reason and they want to stay involved for that reason, so be consistent. That doesn’t mean you have to copy this same thing every time, but stay on the same themes that have produced the donor in the first place and the same the same way a good politician will give the same stump speech over and over again. She may be absolutely sick and tired of it, and the press may be sick and tired of it, and her staff may be sick and tired of it. But it is a speech that works with don’t with the voters, and it has to be given over and over again. You have a background in political consulting, too, don’t you? Yes, ideo i, uh, did a lot of work for twenty years for a number of democratic senators, presidential candidates in the course, citizen advocacy, the work for groups like greenpeace, the seal, you and others that’s all tied to politics. You’ve been around, you’ve been doing this a long time. Did you say fifty years earlier? I believe just, yeah, i’m probably older than most of the trees you’re looking at. Well, i’m in new york, so thie average tree life in new york is, i think, seven years, the street trees. So you got you got those. You got those covered, but all right, you’ve been around it. I’m in i admire its wisdom, its wisdom coming let’s. Imperially no! It’s, empirical. Wisdom it’s not anecdotal. Here’s what’s worked for me in my client’s through the decades. Okay, you want to listen to donors, don’t you? Absolutely. And here here is on area that organizations can really score against the competition and can also help themselves because very few folks in the nonprofit world design effort to get the feedback from their donors. You know, the court corporate america spends billions of dollars getting feedback. If you go on an airline, get off that airline the next day you get a survey you goto to ah, hotel, the next day you get a survey after you’ve checked out my heavens, even ihop, it doesn’t survey on the back of the receipts from their breakfast, and the reason they do this is they know that it, uh, that asking for people’s opinion build satisfaction and builds loyalty, and it is so easy to do, and it is so inexpensive to do, but most non-profits don’t do it, and they just keep the mute button on rather than listen to their donors. But by having feedback mechanisms, you can find out that your website, uh, sucks when it comes to the donate page or you can find out that you’re donorsearch vis program isn’t good, and these these feedback mechanisms are there basically widgets that you’ve been put on your website or questions you can put in your direct mail? Andi, uh, get get the donor’s opinion and, you know, twenty one one of the thing on that you don’t have to necessarily get a written response or telephone response from a donor zamir act repeat, the mere act of asking for someone’s opinion and feedback will boost retention by thirty percent. That is a significant difference. Roger, we have teo to start to wrap up. We just have about thirty seconds left, and, uh, i want listeners, of course, to know there are many more retention winds in the book retention fund-raising published by emerson and church, roger, just spend a couple seconds. Small and midsize shops have a big advantage here, don’t they? They absolutely do. And i love your your slogan for the other ninety five percent because they have a huge advantage because they can do things personally and a well run non-profit shop that pays attention to its donors will exceed return on investment by by five to ten. Times higher than the big organization. Roger craver, he’s, the agitator, to find him at the agitator dot net, and at roger craver on twitter. Roger, thank you so much for sharing all that empirical wisdom. It’s. My pleasure, and i join chelsea and your fan club. Thank you, cool, write something nice, and i’ll make you a listener of the week. Thank you again. You’re content. Strategy is coming up first. Pursuant, they have a free content paper for you. Intelligent fundraisers guide to sustaining e-giving so its forces um, intelligent. You got that? You listen to non-profit radio done fundraiser, you’re you’re either doing it frontline or you’re probably involved in it in some respect. It’s, not you, khun fast forward guide who doesn’t need a guide ever needs guidance in life and sustaining e-giving the research proves that there is a cause and effect relationship between sustaining giving and donor retention wolber roger and i just talking about you need to raise more money. You need to keep your donors that terrible attrition rate. Get it down what you waiting for? Help yourself you can learn the right way to do sustaining giving notice i did not say best practices, you’ll find this content paper. The intelligent fundraisers guide to sustaining e-giving at pursuing dot com quick re sources and content papers couldn’t be simpler. You read the paper to you and don’t make me do it. You want to be with you for an hour, go to pursue it. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for millennial fund-raising it’s a game show. Fundraiser reminds me of the gun show actually, the host chuck barris just died like a week or ten days ago gong show had the unknown comic so does we’ve been telling the got comics gene gene, the dancing machine we’d be spelling has dancing dahna show had a live band there’s live music and we’d be spelling parallels amazing between the gun show it’s the gong show plus spelling equals we’ll be spelling so you so the gun show equals we be spelling minus spelling is when you move it over, you gotta change the sign you could solve for spelling. Spelling equals the gun show minus we’ll be spelling everything else can be derived. Andi, i’m not sure about the natural log with the natural log of we’d be spelling is the video nonetheless is at we be spelling dot com natural log of we be spelling now. Time for tony’s take two non-profit video we’re on stanford social innovation review we are a podcast. Yes, sir. At s i r dot org’s now you don’t personally need this because you’re listening live or podcast or affiliate, but for everybody else, the ones who haven’t yet been born. Into the non-profit radio family, those sheep without a flock fighters without a formation, the fords without a fleet, they are the ones who confined us on stanford social innovation review check out my video that makes two videos for you to watch overviewing paying attention taking notes in my video the random dude in alexandria, virginia, signals excitement about this announcement and i look fat. We’ll find that video at twenty martignetti dot com and that is tony, take two here are bret meyer and katie caress with your content strategy welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference two thousand fifteen it’s hosted by antenna non-profit technology network. We’re in austin, texas, at the convention center. My guest is katie caress she’s, director of online communications for humane society legislative fund. Katie welcome. Thank you so much for having me. That’s. A pleasure. Thanks for taking time on a busy conference. Your workshop topic is content strategy one or one. What are non-profits not doing so well? I could do better at around their content. Strategy. Well, about everybody here has the intention to do much better. I think that everyone here probably is. Looking for something like content, strategy and it’s, just a matter of kind of getting their leaders, the executives onboarding really what it does is it applies like intention and focus to all of your messaging. It’s. A basic plan r the idea that your messages need a plan. A plan focused plan strategy. Yeah, sounds like it starts with goals. Yeah, it starts with goals. It’s just a good idea to start with making sure that you understand oh, yeah, making sure that you understand what your business goals are and discovering how your channel usually is websites with content strategy, but it could be anything social email, whatever making sure that those platforms have goals that are tighter business schools. So you’re avoiding this kind of like sprawl and all over nests of what happens with web sites a lot of time, and the ad hoc put this up things to be just has to go, like, right now, right? I’m taking it that could come from a ceo or a boardmember yeah, and is there someone else senior and becomes hard to say? No, exactly, exactly, and i think that a lot of people who were working on websites or other channels just kind of feel like they’re in this quagmire, right there just likes just drowning and content, and they don’t have the tools to kind of push back or, you know, carve out a better way. So what this says it’s, like we acknowledge that you’re in this like situation where you’re getting input from stakeholders who had all kinds of varying degrees of a definition of what the website is for what this content is supposed to do so content strategy says everybody from their own perspective. Everyone have no perspective, their own priorities, different audiences, and you end up with this website that kind of like pleases nobody, right? It doesn’t drive your business goals, so content strategy says let’s. Ask the question of why, before we do anything and i think that’s kind of revolutionary who worked on the web even the past, like ten years. It’s it’s, just this race to the bottom, like what you said, like publish all the things now, and this has kind of slow down let’s have a plan and it ends up like driving engagement, and it improves your brand it, you know, drives up, conversions, everything if you can kind of get the buy-in take a beat and pursue this, ok, where should we start our conversation? That was great over that was excellent. Overviewing thank you. Should we get started? Well, you should get started by, you know, finding some similarly minded colleagues, right? So talk to your team members about this current problem. Probably everybody started talking about. It i’m sure they are, right. So talk to him about this this, you know, notion that people are pursuing get the, you know, good kind of the buy-in from your colleagues and then start reaching out to people who are, you know, a little above you who could be an ambassador for you to senior leadership and work on getting that buy-in from those folks and then you just start by what you’re basically telling them or trying to get them on board with we need to be more strategic about this. Yeah. Here, our problems. Yes. And here’s, what are potential outcomes are yeah, if we can be a lot more sophisticated about, like here’s, why we’re drowning, right? He’s? All right. Driving here’s where our pages aren’t really converting people here’s why they’re not performing the way we want them go and you don’t even, like start with your business goal and then you pursue it audit we got a big hump dahna okay, just went away. Okay? Great. What that was that was the with speakers. The thie non-profit radio sound system. A cz exemplary it’s beyond question. So that came from the austin convention center. I wish i could run, i could run this convention of the way we run non-profit really agree? I don’t know these losers here. Well, yeah, but so one of the great first step to take us to get an audit done, right? And so it’s an inventory of all of your content, but then it’s the audit phase, which you’re you know, you’re evaluating page by page, and for some people, this could be like tens of thousands of pages on their website, right? Or it’s a couple hundred, you’re evaluating page by page and determining whether that content a piece of content actually lines with what everybody says your business goals are it’s a pretty serious audit? Now you gotta look at every page, every page, and obviously, if you have hundreds of thousands of pages, or if you’re, you know, a merchant’s site you’re going, you’re going to do like a sample size of those pages, right? You’re the idea is to just see, really, hell, well, you’re you’re content is performing and a lot of times that drives a conversation that drives, you know, that gives you the ammunition to make the case that we need. To make a change so an audit is key. It’s the first place to start, and then you’re pursuing just getting that content landscape kind of sketched out determining what you’re ecosystem is right. So let’s say, you’ve got like, you know, thirty things the organization works on for non-profit you’re gonna have all kinds of things somebody’s working on. So you get the executives and the subject experts to agree? Like what? Our priorities right where the organization’s priorities get really clear on that? And then look at how those priorities and those areas are kind of developed on your site. Do you have one thing that’s like this really, really weird offshoot thing? Just like favorite thing, and you have, like, forty thousand pages on it. This should all be driven by the mission. Yeah, exactly. I already should be pretty clear. Yeah, and flow very yeah, smooth from your your mission statement. Yeah, but what you’ll find. But i think a lot of non-profit especially large ones like, oh, my gosh, there’s there’s competing goals were competing priorities and competing interpretations of what that mission is all across organization, which leaves just, you know, a lot of strife in a lot of tension for folks who are, like, right in the middle of that content production system like the web editors. So, yeah, the idea is to kind of, like, sketch out what your content ecosystem should be. So if our priority right here is, like farm animal welfare, we we should have, like, the depth of that contact your sights to reflect that, and it should also reflect what the current priorities are and the tone that you should using, etcetera. But if you have something that’s just, like, really, really low priority, it doesn’t make sense for that to have, you know, take up twenty percent of the site and you’ll find that that happens a lot of times, so okay, okay, so we were going to get some early stakeholders summerlee allies engaged with us? Yeah, who then starts to develop the content strategy. So, you know, you may have someone who is a content strategist on your team, like, if so lucky you a lot of places, all right, let’s assume not. Our audience is small and midsize. Non-profit yeah, exactly, i know and i’m from a huge non-profit and we don’t have anything like that, so usually this falls on the shoulders of, you know that editorial director of a website or, you know, a director of any filler online platforms and usually going to fall on them, and it doesn’t have to be like we’re going to do all of this right now. It can be baby steps. It can be like let’s just take on one like many project and apply content strategy to it, like run that through that screen, kind of demonstrate successive that way, teo to your stakeholders and say, look how well this worked. Look how we drove results this way by applying attention and focus to this, and then you could move on to a larger things, but it always usually kind of just germinates from the web team, maybe someone else, depending on how the organisation structure and maybe someone like development or design. Everybody has a part in this, but yeah. Then it just gets not only getting the work done and turning your website. Are you platform into what you wanted to be? Okay, uh, that all sounds very simple, but there’s gotta be more to it. And we got plenty of time to spend together. So where where do we go now? Well, i mean, yeah, gosh, so it starts with the audit, you know, and you’re looking into how your, how your pages map to your goals and everything, and then you might start with, like, a section of the website, maybe a section that you i feel like the stakeholders there are going to be easy to work with, and they’re going to, like, excited about the process, and so you might start with that that that section that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, but very good to make it explicit. You got some of those early allies tell me some of their content is the place to start, you know, and don’t start with someone who are a section of your organization who, you know, it’s been kind of contentious to work with them, and a lot of people talk about how content started she’s about like therapy, right? It’s like all these relationships, because content is so personal, there’s so many people who were owning content across the organization and to them that that page that they wrote on, like horse immuno contraception is think their baby right? Like, okay, well, this makes no sense to an audience. This makes no sense to a user, how are they going to do that? So a lot of this kind of, you know, revision, work or whatever is collaborative, and you’re getting people on those teams who contribute to content and you’re all coming to a consensus on, like, what it should be based on, like what? We’ve all agreed on the goals, and we’ve all agreed on the audience, like, how can we change? And sometimes you get them involved in writing new stuff? It all depends on kind of the scope of the organization and how involved everybody wants to be, but it should be a collaborative process, and it could be merely taking, like, five pages that you took out from the audit and saying, like, okay, well, these pages are they really working for us? And so you get them involved in that early early stages so they can kind of see it don’t feel like they’re being put upon, right? A lot of this is relationship management, and so, yeah, you may take five pages and two of them make the cut on. The new site, but you’ve all worked on that together. Three the me decide to retire or, you know, you can, you know, contingency of planet, right? Like have a couple of bourbons on any composed it, but the whole thing should be collaborates. You have everybody going on the same page from beginning tend so we should be thinking also about our audiences. That’s, right, who’s, who’s consuming this content, right and so that’s. One of the first things you develop as your, you know, working on your goal, you’re also thinking about your audience. And so anybody who’s working in a content strategy, capacity and organizations should be talking a lot, teo, all the stakeholders throughout the organization who are touching that content, right? So my job would be to go to that horse. Amina contraception page owner i mean, like, why is this important to you? Tell me how to use this in your work. Would you really, really want to see this? And what do you want them to do with it on? Don’t get a lot of really, really good information out of that. It sometimes turns out to be less contentious than you may. Have thought it wass right? You’ll discover that like, oh, actually, they’re you know, they’re worked requires something different, and now i can pitch something different to them that’s more useful than like this page on the website that i’ve seen has gotten like twenty, views and past year and so it’s, just a lot of lot of talking relationship management. Um, and then once you’ve got kind of i guess that section worked on or even the whole site, then you just move on to a governance situation and actually see bret coming right here. Maybe he wants to speak on governance. Governance is actually brett’s section right? Red, you better hurry up, man. Come on. Get in here. Brett, please get in here quickly. Cause we just transition to your section. Take your lanyard off, please. Red came in late, but we can accommodate him. And actually, we were just getting to the section on governance, governance. So please put on your headset because you’ll hear a lot better and filter out background noise. And wes is going to bring you into the picture. We got everybody, wes. Alright, outstanding. Welcome. Thank you. Okay, this is brett brett. Brett meyer, content strategist for think shout welcome, welcome to non-profit radio thank you. Coming closer to the microphone, please should be within an inch. All right, excellent kitty was doing an excellent job. Hopefully you were going to join us, but we would have gone ahead without you. So i don’t want you to think that you are indispensable. Great, but you did show up at the exact right time is very good timing if you’re going to be late was perfect great governance, governance around our our content strategy what what does? What does that even mean? The governance of it governance is the plan for the plan. There are a lot of non-profits these days who are under the impression that they need to create as much content as possible, which is kind of the opposite of having a strategy so governance helps you plan who is responsible for what so you’re going to have probably a team of writers. Is that team of writers going to be able to publish content directly to the website themselves, or is it going to go through a review process? The whole thing around governance is making sure that people understand what their roles are, and setting up the map for how content is going to move from creation through publication to the public. Okay, and as we are, these are these are written this’s, a written plan, this government’s plan. Ideally, it is going to be written down. Usually it is more of a word of mouth thing, and people just have a general idea of what their roles are. We always advised that there is that kind of written plan or map of how things work, because people leave and new people come in. And if you don’t have that documentation for how things were supposed to work, it takes them a long time to get back up to speed. Buy-in like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they are levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m gale bauer from sponsorship strategist. Dot com. Let’s, go into a lot more detail way got some time left together. What what elements you like to see in in the government governance plan let’s take the idea where it is, it is written. Yes, we try to make sure that things aren’t just happening in the communications department because everybody’s going to have some sort of content that they want to get on the website snd we talked about getting the early buy-in great. So yeah, it’s it’s kind of along the lines of a cross functional team, you have to identify who the best writers are the people who are going to create content that’s going to have meaning for the users who were coming to the website and just generally making sure that they understand what their roles are, who is going to be creating the content who’s going to be editing the content? If you have that kind of evergreen content, they stuff that is going to be kind of a permanent fixture of the website. How often are you going to go back and take a look at that content again to make sure that it is meeting the needs of the organization? Isn’t performing as well as it should be, so part of the governance is also understanding what the metrics for success are and the metro for success are going to be a lot different for the about the organisation information than it would be for, say, the blawg or if they’re doing events. An event is a very time box thing it’s going to have a ramp up, they’re going to be pushing a lot of content or information around the event, but as soon as the event is past that usually doesn’t have a lot of utility as opposed to maybe some of the about us content you want to get across what the goals of the organization is, what the organization does. You want people to really understand what this non-profit is trying to accomplish very important content, so they need to keep coming back and making sure that it’s working, writing down the goals means that they have something to measure against and they’re not just creating content in the dark. Katie, i see you doing a lot of nodding, but there’s things you like to add, i mean, the only thing i would add to that. I’m sure brett nose like you would think really addresses the idea that content is like a living, breathing thing, right? The website this is living, breathing thing it’s very different than an email that you sent out to your list, you know it has to it’s up there all the time. And so what? Brett’s talking about it’s so critical, teo to know that it’s not enough just when you hit publish, you know it’s not like a print magazine. It’s not like an email, he just sent out not even like log, you know, so that’s just the beginning when you hit publish and so this governance is so, so critical to making sure content is still performing, you know, a year from now or that you that you remember that it’s up thinks a lot of times you have a huge website, people were like, oh, that that page? Yeah, it happens to people who are, like, really deeply invested as well. It’s just e-giving huge websites going to it’s going to take over if you don’t govern it let’s spend a good amount of time talking about the measurement and the success metrics go ahead, that’s. Your that’s, your area? Excellent, yes, hyre we’ve been doing a lot of data with our cloudgood data work with our clients recently, so we know for a fact that the home page is not the common way that people come into a website anymore. They’re using google, they’re coming in deep in into the site, through social media or through what’s called dark social, the people chatting each other links buy-in on stuff that can’t really be tracked. So you have to understand that any page of your website might be creating the that first impression for folks, but the goals of the various types of content that you might have on your website are going to be different. So when we do work with clients, we try to help them understand that an event page, a page that somebody might google for. Oh, amplify austin, for example, what? We don’t know exactly what page they’re going to come into at first, but as the data starts to come in, you can see where they’re entering the site and you can help. You can come up with the metrics that are going to let you know whether or not that paige is successful, so if you’re coming into an event page with the registration, you want them to get the information about the event very quickly and decide whether or not they want to attend, and the next step from that would be clicking on the register button, which would be very different from a post on a blogger where you want them to consume the content and then probably share it. So the metrics there going to be slightly different. The important part is to recognize all the types of content and set up the different metrics that will indicate success for that particular organization, because it’s always going to be different, okay? And katie, we were using the interesting example of the equine immuno contraception paige thank, which could be a coin acquaint, contra or something? Yeah, i mean that that was so it was so benefit from governance. I would just so benefit from having those questions asked. Like, what does it mean for this page to succeed? What do you want your users to do with it? And then really, really, like, trail down and see if that’s happening. And i think that that could take care of so much like problem content on so many people’s websites if you’re just sticking to you, like, really direct, objective measurement and then there’s kind of you take away all the, like the sensitivity with that, like, okay, here’s this thing that i didn’t say like, you know, google said it, whatever. Yeah, we still have several minutes left together. What have we not talked about? Whatever i ask you that that you want to share. I like to, and i know that katie agrees with this because we’ve talked about it a little bit. Make sure that non-profits understand that content strategy doesn’t have to be just about the website, and it shouldn’t just be in the commune educations depart multi-channel it is multi channel and the development, the people in the development department who are sending out fund-raising letters that is a piece of content that is going to create an impression and if any one of these things is a little bit off message, i mean, we don’t want to get too far into the whole whole branding part. But if anything’s too far off message or strikes a wrong note with the supporters, you’re probably going to lose thumb, at least in the short term. I’m so glad you brought that up exactly whenever i’ve talked about content started, you know, a lot of people think like, oh that’s, just for websites and even this idea that content is only on a website and just like no like a tweet is content any you know, period it’s, certain pages, that’s, all content that’s why i get so excited about this top because i really feel like it has, you know, with the ability to bring everything together and it can get kind of as big as you want it to be. But that’s what that’s? Why it’s so cool? And the best organizations i’ve seen are the ones who are integrating every single channel into their content strategy and all just completely flows the same ethics the same style, same telling the same priorities and goals and audiences, they’re just really, really woven and deeply, inappropriately and it’s just like it’s cake. I love it. Brett katie knight a zai mentioned, talked about getting some allies early on and then maybe developing a mini project around some of their contents. Do you have? Any other ideas you want to add about trying to get this this team buy-in whether it’s in the early stage or or in the later stages, maybe some, maybe some departments are not as willing as others. What advice do you have there? Katie is absolutely right getting that early win always going to be important because then you’d demonstrate the success or what you can possibly achieve by having a written content strategy other than that getting that leadership buy-in early is it’s not just from the team that you’re assembling, that that’s going to be creating the content. Leadership really has to support this and understand the value they already understand the value, because we’ve been talking about branding at the non-profit technology conference for a long time, there’s a lot of companies who’ve been helping non-profits developed this brand, but the content that is sporting the brand has to be taken into account too. So it’s not a big step for leadership to take, from supporting the brand to supporting the content that is supporting the brand. Yeah, like there’s, so much overlap with just brand and content strategy is the time o que onda geun this all all flows from our mission statement, so that seems like the place to start. Katie and i did talk about that anything you want to add about that non-profits have a built in advantage. They don’t have to worry about what the for-profit companies do because everything should be coming out of their mission and their values when your values driven organization it’s much easier to develop content that has meaning than, say, one, a big company that wants to sell you shoes and thinks that a good way to do that is by showing people succeeding let’s, leave it there, all right? Brett meyer is content strategist with think shout and katie caress, director of online communications for the humane society legislative fund. Brett carry katy, thank you very much. Thinking having real pleasure. Thankyou. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen austin, texas, thanks so much for being with us next week. Gail perry returns. She was just on for god’s sake, but she’s so good i’m having her back, i’m going to drive to her home in raleigh, north carolina, on we’re going to do facebook live and periscope kapin what did britain, katie just say? Be multi-channel we’ll talk about subtle to the ass. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we be spelling dot com creative producer is quite my off. That lever, which is a line producer. Jenny mccardle is r e m and f m l reach director. To show social media is by susan chavez. And our music is by scott stein. You’re with me next week for not probably radio. Big non-profit ideas for the either ninety five percent go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for November 11, 2016: How To Appeal To High Net Worth

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Melanie Schnoll Begun: How To Appeal To High Net Worth

What are the wealthy looking for as they check you out on their way to becoming a connector, board member, investor, donor or other supporter of your organization? Melanie Schnoll Begun leads Morgan Stanley’s philanthropy management.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d bear the pain of pyla, rale, gia, if i had the stomach, the idea that you missed today’s show how to appeal to high net worth. What are the wealthy looking for as they check you out on their way to becoming a connector boardmember investor? Melanie schnoll begun leads morgan stanley’s, philanthropy management tony’s take two mohr ntc video interviews responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com no additional begun she’s here in the studio she’s, the managing director of philanthropy management at morgan stanley. She works with the firm’s, wealthiest and most influential clients, including prominent business owners, venture capitalists, social entrepreneurs, professional athletes and entertainers, as well as foundations and non-profits she is the nominating chair and former board president of the juvenile diabetes research foundation, new york city chapter and vice president of the board of metropolitan college of new york. Melanie is also on advisory boards for the naomi berrie diabetes center and quinnipiac university law school. Welcome back, melanie metoo pleasure. It was it was april two thousand twelve. You were here a long time to for, like, for four and a half years ago or so you’re looking great. Good to have you. Well, i like that. Thank you. Absolutely need that every morning for now. You impressive bio. No book. I thought. In these four and a half years, you would have written a book by now. Well, you know what? What i’ve done in four and a half years, i’ve i’ve run eight more marathons. Is that impressive? Okay, that that’s ah, yeah that’s that’s a a run up to that, but i like to see a book that you like to see it, but now you’re doing the marathon this year, right? And getting the marrow, which means yes, we’re a little pre recorded about ten days or so, which means this sunday you’ll be running this sunday on behalf of a cause. So of course, i’d never just run twenty six point two miles for myself. I’m raising money and awareness for juvenile diabetes for jr of europe. Okay, you’re on the advisory board, right? New york city chuck’s correct. I was ah, president, but more important than that, i’m an owner and owner of the disease, so you’ve got to take a stand, right? You can’t just own a disease and allow other people to raise the money or awareness. You have toe roll up your sleeves like i do. Tow. Take insulin. Okay, you gotta go out. There and run and raise awareness and money. Was there a juvenile diabetes research foundation? When you first found out that you had diabetes, there was the organization’s been around for over forty two years, and i’d say that we’ve had our greatest success this year. So far, we have received fda approval for the artificial pancreas, which could be my life cloaking technology outstanding, right? An owner of the organization that feels magnificent feels magnificent, but it’s not a cure, right at the end of the lot of us owe our promise has always been better treatment, prevention and a cure. So you know another device to wear in your bodies, you know, another device to wear in your body. There was just something in the times i think is today that so many of the the health that cause related non-profits are now seeking cures rather than just counseling and support on howto live with the disease. Yeah, i think that was just in today’s times. Yeah, yeah, it was it was the right article. Greater. Alright, so that’s what? Basically we’re here to talk about what a non-profit khun do should be doing to get the types. Of people who are your clients? High net worth ultra high net worth individuals interested in the cause as as interested as you are in jd are okay and that that’s on all different levels that might be a boardmember donor-centric ter, maybe just like introduction, supporter and some other methods, you know, maybe a volunteer, but not a boardmember so we’re going to talk a fair amount about you’re bored, you know, sort of fine tuning your board and making that look appealing, but the conversation’s not limited there, and we may just be talking about very well. Azad said non dahna relationship all right, so you’ve got you got a bunch of tips. Um, let’s, let’s, get into the heads of these men. He says this is an elusive group for a lot of people. They read about them. It’s always arms length. You know, ninety nine percent of us don’t know these people personally, they never will never meet them. But i got to believe that in the end, they really just i want to be connected to a cause no different than the rest of us. Just people just with norvig gets more money, there are people okay. Okay. Let’s. Gratifying, right? Right. So they just want, you know, they want some connection, the personal relationships. All right? No, i fear that in this presidential cycle, people could come away with a negative opinion of the very wealthy, but i hope that most are not like that. I presume they’re not. I’d like to see the good in you. I think i think we have to think that money and ego could be separate, right would be separate, of course, andi, ultimately, the people that we’re talking about today, which i think i think we’re looking at, many, many, many, many, many people, right? Ultimately you don’t see someone who is ultra high net worth right? It’s not, they’re not wearing it on their face. There’s no color. There is no religion, right it’s associated with with the kind of hair that you have. So it’s a it’s a matter of being right, it’s it’s something that you become either because you inherit the wealth, you create the wealth. There might have been a situation which brought wealth to you and the majority of the clients that we work with. Many of them don’t want to be associated with money. They want to be associated with purpose. So when we think about what creates purpose inside of someone versus a person being a wealthy individual and therefore they have purpose, but what creates wealth in itself, i hope it’s not a purpose as not it i’ve heard lots of stories about very wealthy people who are quite unhappy and quite modest people who are quite a brilliant in their lives, exactly, exactly, definitely independent and independent of you go to now let’s reassure people that there could be a place for these, these these people, these folks in small and midsize non-profits and they don’t all necessarily want to be on the metropolitan opera board, stanford university, right? And not necessarily, i think i think it’s a fallacy to think that wealth associates itself with just large, robust organizations. There is an opportunity if you’re a significant wealth holder to be not just a difference in a small organization, but perhaps to be the difference in a small nonprofit organization. But again, it’s really related to what the organization is doing. There are small, independent colleges that do not have wealthy donors that don’t have wealthy. Alum and are seeking amazing volunteers support leadership. There are arts organizations that are not like the amazing one sitting here in new york city for small museums that are small art collections all over the country that require and need attention. So again, it goes back to you know, where does the person feel that incredible connected with the organization you’ve helped some of your clients start? Teo get engaged with small and midsize non-profits i think the best part about our work is that the best part about our work is helping them distinguish between an organization where they could have a long, amazing history with versus one which is, you know, nice to be on procedures, prestigious. They got great people sitting around the table, they all looked look like them. They all have bank accounts that are like theirs, but most of our clients like a balance, right, and that’s what’s also so interesting about the majority of the boards that i work with. There are a few wealthy people sitting among the board members. There are some who are just industry experts who associate with the organization. There are some who just have some incredible skills or time on dh? All of that is what makes the composition of aboard great so wealth is not wealth doesn’t necessarily mean that i’ll be a great boardmember a great volunteers, you’re right. In fact, it could be the other way around. It could be difficult for the organization. That’s okay, we take our first break um, you know, what can i say? This is going to be exciting, we’re going to talk about it is exciting, we’re going to talk about getting your organization in tune for for making these approaches and then also even these are just very good advice, even if you’re not approaching high net worth individuals, just this is good stuff for your board and for your organization generally, so stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Okay, melanie schnoll begun. Let’s get into ah, some strategies that we got for for looking good and just being solid. And, um, what is the word that we always use? Sustainable? Of course. Ok, so we, uh, we’d be well advised to show that we can help someone we might be trying to appeal to as a volunteer that will be willing to help them raise money. What kinds of help should we be offering to our volunteers? Right? So many ultra high net worth individuals created their own businesses, right? You would think that they know how to raise money and it’s incredible the difference between yeah, that’s different kind of raising it’s a different fund-raising right, a capital raise for business versus raising money for non-profit that you might be so passionate about. For some reason, the psychological obstacles that happen in someone’s head are incredible. And i’m a professional fundraiser, so to me, i can’t understand it. But you have to appreciate that people get really scared about asking friends, colleagues, business associates for money so non-cash profits staff really needs to feel comfortable. In health, being potential board members were volunteers overcome these obstacles, and there were definitely techniques to do it. I’m getting them into a mindset to realize that this is not asking money for themselves. Most people think when they go out, even though they know they’re raising money for an organization, a small organization, they care about the desperately needs the money, they feel that making that ask appears to be making and asked for them personally. It’s personal way we got to get rid of that, right? Like you got to take that idea. You gotta put it on a shelf way, way up on the top of your ceiling and decide you know what? I’m not going into that box because this isn’t about me. This is selfless. I’m spending my time, my energy might interest to create awareness and raise funding that’s either desperately needed or trust is needed to improve the work of the organization, so taking yourself out of that formula is really important. One of the ways that we do it is helping organisations help, they’re bored or volunteers were raising money, helping them create personal and public narratives, and a narrative is a story, right? We all have our own stories. I have a story about who i am now j r and your relationship with jamie our f etcetera, metropolitan college, all these organizations, all of these organizations, are all of those organisations, so finding that story inside of you that you’re really incredibly comfortable with this isn’t an elevator speech, this isn’t, you know, standing in the middle of, you know, a tight little elevator where the door is closed and the person can’t get out of the way. This is something where it’s so authentic genuine, but this is but this is making it sounds like magnum or personal. We’re trying to put personal up on the shelf now, but but personal because you’re comfortable telling the story about your association with the organization that this is not money for. So i don’t want anyone to think that when i’m raising money for tv, raph, i’m raising it so that melanie doesn’t have type one diabetes. I’d love to not have type one diabetes it’s a disgusting auto immune disease, but i’m not raising money for me, and there may never be a cure for type one diabetes in my lifetime, i’m raising money because i don’t want any other little girl to have type one diabetes because i don’t want another woman tohave to wear all of these devices underneath her dress, trying to figure out you know where i hook it on. Can i wear this tight, beautiful blouse? You know, i just i want people to feel comfortable recognizing that they can keep it. Anything is a type one diabetic. They could be a competitive athlete running the new york city marathon. They could run a big business, right? They could have babies. They would have to worry about living with complications that type one diabetes could bring on. So i take myself out of the formula. You’re not giving me the money you’re giving in an organization that’s working in excellence to do the research to find better treatments and cure. But i tell a story about myself, because, tony, i want you to see me in the center of the story, and then i want to drag you into that conversation because i want tony to see that my story about type one diabetes is your story also it’s your story. I help you. See the connection between me and you give you a quick example whenever i’m raising money for type one diabetes and i talk about me being in a car, my blood sugar being low first talk about the possibility of what could happen to me or my kids if they’re in the car with me. I then relate the story to a donor that that that i’m trying to raise money with from and i say to them, you know what? If you were in your car on the road when i was a possibility of negan into an accident, hurry myself is possible, the possibility of me being low and getting into an accident and hitting your car is also likely. Now i’m not saying that type one diabetics get into more accents anyone else? Probably less because we’re so much more aware of our health and our well, is that anybody else? I’m always checking before i get into a car, but that’s how i help other people who are raising money for diabetes make a story that’s personal, but connect themselves to somebody else and it’s, not about statistics. People are nervous about talking about, you know. The efficiencies of the nonprofit organization they’re nervous about talking about the impact of the organization. I could relate it to just a little story about me being in a car and talk about how j d ref is doing such amazing work on better technologies and how that’s helping me live a better life and helping you because i won’t be in a car on the road level. Yeah, outstanding, milly know very i feel it because i’m planning on soliciting cubine shaking you down for a couple of bucks for my city marathon on sunday, we’re already doing a service for j d r f there were going to take them on the promotions for the show, they’re goingto they’re getting there getting an hour of promotion. Okay, one one more idea of a simple way, tio help someone who’s who feels like they’re they’re not a comfortable, they don’t feel comfortable soliciting one more. One more thing, one more thing you’re gonna have three ideas in your head, like just three don’t noel the facts about the organization we get lost, we get lost. In fact, people get lost in numbers when you make a mistake about a number so you’re you’re making a claim that this little school is serving twenty five children living with autism and the results are fifty percent better lives, whatever it might be, we get lost in statistics, and the issue with numbers sometimes is people can prove us wrong with a number it’s harder to prove us wrong with just a story. So i suggest to all of three organizations i work with who are helping their volunteers, their donors raise money, give them three easy facts that we no can’t be disputed right can’t be disputed and that you could really understand again that you could create a story around one of the facts if if we’re talking about autism and let’s assume that we have a play centre for children xero through the age of five rights in a community important to that community, we know that that autism eyes is increasingly on the rise. We still don’t even know why this is happening to our young children, but this center is so important to this community. So three particular stories, right? So i would i would give them one story about one young girl, right? And how? It changed her life by being in a community where she began. Tto be able to associate, have friends right where he began toe learn skills, teo cope with some of her emotions. We’re too began to make eye contact, right? And then i give them another statistic and it’s a step about the way it changed the life of the parent. That the mother now feels confidence and leaving her daughter in this beautiful little community centre, that the mother now can have a part time job. Right? There’s so many ways to give statistics, they’re not versus forty eight percent of our families feel more confident. Yeah, with the with having a two family income just, you know, okay, exactly. Exactly. So those are the three fax are are incredibly important to fund raisers. And one of them should be a fact that that you can that the fundraiser, right? So as a non-profit is working with someone on the board that the fund raiser can associate with themselves, perhaps they have a child who’s living with autism so they could tell a story about, you know, my daughter, uh, when he was four years old was in this school, you know, and what it did for her and just giving specifics about actually how it can capture how it came to that family’s life, what it did for the siblings in that family, so three strong fax can never go wrong and lose the numbers if they if they don’t serve you, you just raise something that there has to be an affinity before we approach any individual way don’t want to go after high net worth people just because they are because they are wealthy, that there’s no, if there isn’t some genuine affinity for the work that you’re doing. There’s no point, right? May i mean, unless you’re a robber, right? Unless you’re looking to, you know, going to someone’s home and you don’t care now, why would you even think of that? I don’t know, i mean, i wouldn’t even think about it, you know what? I don’t know why? Because i think in fund-raising sometimes wait do feel like we’re robbing the person we do if we don’t if we don’t believe in the story of, you know, i’ve heard actually i’ve heard that from grant writers we were asked by sometimes its board members or their ceo go after this hit this foundation and there’s no connection, but they have to try to find one and they know it’s tenuous as their writing the words of their typing. They know it’s disingenuous, and they know it’s going to fail, but they’re executing something that they were asked to do by somebody who presumes themselves to know more about grantwriting than the professional. So and i’ve heard in that in that realm, it’s, that it feels very feel smart. Well, it feels empty, it feels empty and the results are horse, so you have to know that there’s some connection now you know, you’ve you maybe have seen another similar organization that the person supports you mentioned some of your clients are entertainers and are athletes, so maybe they tweet about a cause and they don’t know about your organization. See, according paper, you know, if it’s not somebody with seventeen million twitter followers but you see them quoted relating to a cause, something you’ve got to know that there’s a connection before you tryto given introduction, we call it a common denominator common denominator so my my son is in the sixth. Grade. We deal with all these fractions percentage of fractions, and every time i’m sitting down looking at his mathos work i’m thinking about fund-raising because i’m thinking, what is that common denominator and a common denominator means we have to have some tenuous connection, something that where there’s there’s a correlation between me and the person that i’m raising money from? So we do a lot of work, we help our non-profit clients to a lot of work on the person, the organization, the foundation before they go and make the ass. Okay, maybe we should touch on something. What do you do for your non-profit clients cause i mentioned it in your intro and that you mentioned well, let’s, acquaint people with that side of your practice. Great. Happy tio r work starts with advisory services, so we work with non-profit organizations, small and large helping them in three particular areas. The first is bored development in governance and going into a nonprofit organization looking at their board, seeing where there are strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. The typical swat analysis, right? And during a swat analysis with a board is amazing. We do it on the way. We do it backwards. I think most people start with their strength, like who doesn’t want to talk about how strong i am? We start with their threats. You call it a tuesday, we calling wools elearning you’re inter combining okay, that’s right metoo we turn it on its head so threats and weaknesses have to be first. You could always go to the opportunities and the strengths of a nonprofit organization. S o going in really analyzing the organization, there will be some tremendous talents thing on the board. Sometimes the board is tired. I mean, we have to realize that some boards where they don’t have bored tenure and this happens a lot, tony and small non-profits like the leadership on the boy that’s been around too long over and it’s because the bylaws say it’s two three year consecutive terms is the max and you look on the board in there, people have been there twelve, fifteen, seven, twenty years, nobody has the the courage or the energy to enforce what’s in writing at night, so you know, you don’t get fresh perspective. I mean it’s terrible it’s terrible, and part of the reason is because they live in a feat they live in fear, you know, starting fresh perspective, people come on the board and they see what is supposed to be six year max, maybe a possibility of a second of a third three year term, and their board members have been here for seventeen years, and i don’t even follow their own by-laws what kind of an organization? By joining that’s, right? So so not only does it have poor governance, right? Not only does have poor governance, but ultimately it’s a new fresh member of the board. When you look at someone who’s been on a board for so many years, you know it, they’re they’re they’re exhausted from raising money for the same organization that’s, that’s one it’s not that they’ve lost the passion for the work they care about the work they want to see the results, but ultimately every three to campaign cycles, a delete four five year campaigns at least, and everything in between those and the preparation of planning and that’s a couple strategic planning cycles with that if you was done right, takes at least a year or so and that, and that means that they’ve even seen strategic plans that have sat on shelves that haven’t even been on there embarrassed the board members embarrassed to leave don’t want to leave the organization flat, but the organization is embarrassed to get the person off he’s another by-laws say they should that’s right, it’s a bad situation. Let me tell you how we help. Let me tell you how we help. Let me tell you how we help, we go into that board and we sit down with, you know, the current officers and really talk about you, let’s, analyze your you’re bored policy, right? This is what your terms are if they’re right. If it was right when we wrote this this language, if we were right about this, then we have to govern this way. Onboarding exactly so we need to make decisions now, how do we get rid of a boardmember who cares about this organization, who we care about, um, letting them resign in honor, right, letting them resigning? I think a lot of times it just takes a face to face conversation at seoul. It takes some degree of courage. Just ask the person to come in and sit with the ceo. And se look, oh, it sit with the board chair, hopefully is not the board chair, but that could be the person, but whoever it is, you know, you gotta go. You gotta grow a pair and and start enforcing the governance that you’ve you’ve put in writing. That’s exactly right that’s exactly what it is that simple and the person is a very good chance that personal thank you. In fact, not only thank you, they want to go, they want they’re embarrassed to leave. They’re embarrassed to tell you that they don’t want to go and you’re embarrassed to ask them to leave. But but i’d never let but it’s an opportunity, right? We never let ah threat or weakness like having someone who’s tired, who’s been on a board too long not turn into an opportunity and into a strength we go back to our twos, and so what’s the opportunity as you are a cz ur graciously in honor it’s celebrating the service of a boardmember who’s. Now retiring, you ask for a gift, we ask for a gift and we do it upon exit. And we allow that retiring boardmember and honor we celebrate that. Boardmember allow his or horse story about leaving this organization all the work that he’s done and in celebration upon departure, leaving a major gift. And by the way, major, at their level right now, talking about small organizations, this person might not have a fourteen to give, given their capacity at their capacity. I never heard that one outstanding, and i’ve heard the transition respectfully, to an advisory board nice, but ask for a gift as forget. I mean, of course we’re going to do all of those other things. But why lose our opportune eddie? Allow someone to retire and give at their highest and best potential and celebrate and celebrate their service and their their their gift? Okay, would you hang out, take it, take sip waters, complicity from aroma while i do a little business, you just keep that. I give a lot to remember. It’s not it’s, not a paid, so we don’t have to disclose it. Um, so much more with melanie coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got another free webinar. If this one is upgrade your best donors today with pursuant consultants chris taft and christian priest they’re gonna help you identify your donors who have the capacity and interest to do more for you maximize your resources as you engage the right prospects and fine tuning your prospect visits. This webinar is on tuesday, november fifteenth, at twelve central time. If you want to register, go to pursuing dot com and under resource is click webinars yet another free webinar from pursuing we’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising these air, not your seventh grade spelling bee there’s live music, dancing, standup comedy fund-raising and of course, there is spelling woven in there as well. The’s air ideal for millennial outreach night you’ll love these things because you do them in bars restaurants, not your seventh grade spelling bee. Check out the video at we b e spelling dot com now tony steak, too. I’ve got more video interviews from the non-profit technology conference he’s a rond fund-raising i picked the brains of smart technology guests to help you raise more money. This is what we’ve got in this batch donorsearch vase to boost your revenue growing your sustainers revenue, smart email marketing and increasing donorsearch retention all for those group together my video with the links to each of these four video interviews is that tony martin durney dot com, and that is tony’s take two. Melanie, thank you for hanging in there. I love i just love that gift idea. I know i said it three times already, but i love that gift idea of the departure of a boardmember but, yeah, we can’t have the seventeen years service service members it’s it’s just it’s not right. It’s bad business. Well, you just mentioned millennials and as i think about boards again, some of the work that we do it, morgan stanley is developing these boards. There is not a board around today that’s not looking to bring young leadership onto the board, and some have young monisha advisory boards, even they have if they don’t, they should, and they don’t, they should, and millennials are feeling the pressure. Tony. They’re really feeling the pressure because they realize that these organizations are all looking at them right now, right? Like there is an eye on them to be safe metoo saviors i i go to conferences and there’s a panel of three millennials, and there has to speak for the whole thirty million court record three people supposed to represent the entire group, they’re representing their representing all of us both leadership from the past, and they’re going to be our future. So, you know, we need to be mindful of the pressure that we’re placing on them, but also but again, we need to recognize the opportunity. So as i think about boards and for, you know, the other nonprofit organizations, the organizations that that listened to your show that you serve bringing on young talent is incredibly important. But that common denominator right, you doesn’t necessarily mean that. Wow, that’s a person i want sitting on my board. So as i think about the colleagues on my team, even even craig was on my team was here in the studio with us today, when i think about, you know, how do we bring young talent onto non-profit boards? He gotta do the same personal assessment of them and that’s what i helped non-profits tio, we help them analyze the potential of a young boardmember so e-giving really almost like like a questionnaire and analysis. Who am i? What kind of boardmember could i be? What kind of time could i give? What kind of thoughts can i? Offer would i be intimidated? Sitting among ah board of people so much senior to me coming in and they’ve been there for sixteen years? Am i going to have a permanent gag order? Will i ever feel comfortable offering my opinion, having a voice at that table? So you need to really look at millennials who come on to your board if they’re going to join your big board and make sure that they have the potential to be an equal participating boardmember support the reassurance? Yeah, the coaching one of your ideas is that there be a board buddy system? I love talking about that. I love it! I love it it’s like anything else. When you learned how to swim, no one went into a pool on their own little diesel sensitive hands under me as i was kicking and flailing. I’m still i still i still need that i’m actually not very good even i live on the ocean i flail that the hands have grown but they’re a little different now of it’s the same i do love it well, maybe that’s because you should be using your feet more than your hands that’s a swimmer it’s really? The power comes from the feed from the from the from the legs, but you’re right, it’s that support underneath you until until you’re ready to swim on your own till you’re ready is from on the road. So it’s the same exact like to see a mentor assigned a banner different dahna mentor has a met buddy somebody now i heard friends or friends buddies wait friends of friends, pals, pals, buddies sleep together. Okay? That’s not that’s, not the kind of body. You know what? We’re going to keep this show really clean. Okay, so, so what’s going on? We’re not. We’re not talking about the word sleep that’s killing you, right? So blue. So it was the together part. It was together part, but in the bud washing room she’s really norvig it is mormon studio, but you’re blushing more now than you were ever best falik so the idea of a buddy system it’s not a mentor in it’s, not a sponsor. It’s it’s, not someone who’s going be there give you no guiding you your half and it’s not someone there who’s gonna sponsor you to take on a bigger role in the organization it’s someone who’s going to share with you what they went through when they were joining the board. So would he to know that? Like, when you walk, i’ll give you something. This amazing issue that people have when they first joining aboard, where do i sit? Oh, my god. I’m walking into this boardroom there’s ten board members to someone which we have assigned seats on by sitting in someone’s chair and that’s that’s their there right? How do i prepare for a board meeting? Should i come into notes all over the board book? They’ve dog tag in my book be all highlighted. Do i ask questions? Should i answer questions? I mean, all of these things that go on in someone’s head when they’re first joining aboard because remember, you’re joining a family aboard is a family. These are people who work together, live together, pray together, cry together, sometimes over the issues that they’re working on, and you’re the newcomer and your brand new and your brand new. So a body is someone who gives that kind of support. The first thing a buddy does is they find a seat for their buddy might. They walk in and they go, you know what? You’re going to sit right next to me, you’re going to sit right next to me that reassurance when you just walking for that first meeting, knowing that you got someone right next to you and who like whispers something in your ear, like, you know, by the way, don’t listen to that woman, you know, she doesn’t have a clue what the hell she’s talking about or oh, that guy talks about fund-raising but he hasn’t raised a dollar for this organisation in ten years, you know, that kind of insight on that thing kibitzing really help someone get comfortable and ease into their fiduciary responsibilities, sitting on the board outstanding because i wanted to talk about making explicit the responsibilities of the boardmember clearly the organization has responsibilities to the to the board with the boardmember has responsibilities to the organization, and they go way beyond fund-raising and we need to make these explicit on, i think, going back again to governance many organizations, even small organizations, right, even start up organizations recognized the need tohave policy, and they’ll perhaps even write policy they’ll feel, perhaps copy some other organizations policy and make it their own not knowing what to be in their policy, but at the end of the day, whatever their policy suggests that are the board members responsibilities should be in writing, why’s that so critically important because new board members, especially for small organizations, they need to understand. What am i supposed to be doing here? Like what is my role? The first critical role is to talk about raising money for some reason, we leave it for last we we nominate people to the board, we cultivate them. We’re so excited to bring them on. Sometimes we’re bringing them on because they actually gave a gift to the organization in the past, right? They were a donor to the organization, and then when we bring them onto the board all of a sudden, you know, we don’t talk about fund-raising i start, i lied with with fund-raising in fact, we have not policy usually usually there’s this give and get expectation on the board. I hate that word. I hate that word. Why what they mean by expectation? The reality is, if there is a need, then we should say there is board fund-raising policy and some boards will explicitly say how much the number is that they have to raise. They don’t necessarily have to say how they get the money. But, you know, every board needs to realize if there are ten, people sitting around this table and if there’s an expectation for us to each raise ten thousand dollars or five thousand or one thousand, you know, i don’t know how much some of the organizations who are listening might expect of their things are in the range so in the range, but let’s just say it’s ten let’s, say it’s ten because it’s easier for me to do that kind of mathos on dh there, sir. Ten people sitting around the table rights of ten thousand times ten. You could even do that math. Tony what’s. That number would be a hundred thousand. Well now, imagine formal difference. Wolber lorts right for michael. But both were former lawyers. Exactly. Imagine the difference in a non profit organization. If it every single year before it even had toe open its doors, it knew it had a commitment because the board understood that each of them had the responsibility and on dh. Not a goal, not an expectation, but the responsibility to get ten thousand dollars in that organization knew we have one hundred thousand dollars toward with that. Do you prefer to see those expectations as a dollar amount or something? You see the phrase personally significant gift each year? I like clarity. Ok? I mean, i’m all about being clear and concise. What i hope is that ten thousand is the floor, not the ceiling. Yeah. See, that’s the problem. If you if you say there’s a certain there is a responsibility to do that, that becomes the person ceiling. Exactly. I got ten thousand dollars. I’m done. So i’ve got ten thousand dollars in january and i could fall asleep for the next eleven months. Now, what do you do though if you have a diverse board in terms of assets and ability to give? Yes. And for some people with ten thousand dollars is a stretch. And for some people, it’s, you know, a remainder at the checking account at the end of the week. That’s, right. So so that’s. So now let’s, let’s. Go back to this ultra high net, worth enough people that we were talking. About the beginning of the hour right on policy in that regard doesn’t necessarily have to be the same for everybody, right? And when you’re recruiting a member to report when you’re recruiting someone and you know that they have the potential to give hyre than other board members, you’re i’m i’m very clear with that new board potential boardmember i will explain the composition, the board i want you understand who you’re gonna be sitting with, you’re going to be sitting with some people who are academics who don’t have the opportunity to give them selves significant, but man, they gave intellectual capital to this organization. We have some board members who can give, ah, small amount of money, but give their time and then and then you, tony, you know, you have a lot of time, you’re running a big business, you live in north carolina, you’re on the radio, you got a lot of people want your attention, right? Right, right. Sounds good. Sounds good with you was reality story. I’m creating a good narrative for drama you add to it is eyes intense it’s all about creating the factual was all factual but bring thrown creating the public narrative here creating the public narrative so around that story, i know you have the potential to give mohr, but you don’t have much time. You don’t live in new york, so you can’t always be here for board meetings. You can’t always be here for the volunteer events, so you know, you’re in north carolina, but you have the potential to give more. I would be very explicit with you, tony, i want you to understand something the required give for this board is ten thousand dollars, but one of the reasons that we want you on the sport is because we know you have some tremendous networks. We know that you’re very affluent, we know that you run a great business, we know that you don’t have a lot of time, so we want you to realize that we’re not going to ask is much time of us. We might be asking of other board members, but we do hope that you can give at a higher potential. And what do we embarrass about what it was like, seriously, what we embarrassed about asking, but we know it, right? We’re thinking it, but for some reason. Somewhere between our brain and our mouth, there’s there’s this disconnect, we can’t get those words out, and we know the person we’re talking to his thinking it because as i’m describing the diversity of the board, i know that the academics don’t have the capacity to give the hypothetical tony level that’s exactly right qualified with hypothetical that’s, right? So you’re allowing i know it, you know it let’s talk about the elephant in the room, it’s the elephant in the room, and instead we’re going to be professionals. We’re gonna be genuine, we’re going to be authentic and we’re going to be transparent, and if i’m going to allow you to serve in excellence, what i don’t want to happen is i don’t want tony in north carolina running a big business who says, wow, i feel totally guilty because there was, you know, a volunteer events today. We were going out and clean the park because we’re over the garden because we’re garden organs, unicorns i feel totally guilty. I wasn’t able to be there, and i wasn’t able to be there for the last three, you know, vegetable growing things and the flower cutting thing, but you know what i know i could dio i care about this organization. It was in my neighborhood when i was growing up. I want to be a big part of it. I could give more than other people can give, okay? Honesty, explicitness, professionalism. We’re adults here, all right, let’s, go out for our last break a little early, and then we’ll wrap it up. We’ll still have another, like, nine, ten minutes or so you hang in there. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office with fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Welcome back, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Melanie, i love these ideas. E-giving really excellent. Um, by the way, you didn’t mention beach either on the beach in north carolina? Yes, i got it going. Address mamatoto the hypothetical means well, at that additional layer of fact and the view outside of your window. And now now you’re able to sleep with that with the shutters open because it’s getting a little bit cooler for indoor sliding doors, we could definitely do a fundraiser at your beautiful beach house in north carolina. Thank you so much for offering europe. Thank you for offering. I appreciate that. We’ll take that. We’ll take that done. Done. Let’s, not get aggressive. We’ll not only martignetti non-profit here not only taking we’re going where you already admonished me. Aboutthe sex joke that’s, right? We’re not gonna take it, but but at a gala we’re gonna raffle your home ofthe to somebody with a beautiful beach. Um, let’s show that our organization measures its own results, shows its impact assesses it’s assess its its effectiveness to the new potential investor etcetera that we might be trying to entice yes, so effectiveness. And measurement, right? So many conversations about this, i’m sure that you’ve had conversations like this on your range a lot we have, but it bears repeating buy-in impact reporting and measurements. Ok, so so we might have a slightly different opinion than many of the companies that are in the measurements reporting business. Go ahead and i’m gonna give you the opinion from the ultra high net worth jonah, right? So that’s, where we spend much of my time, our staff spends much of our time at morgan stanley. I’m you would think that the wealthy or someone is the more be the big bank accounts that they have the brokerage statements that they get. They always want all these reports. The reality is they don’t read them, they don’t read them, and i’m not saying everyone that no one reads them right. So their trust advisors, i might be reading them on behalf of the donor, but the ultra high net worth donor-centric ng all of your energy on it goes on red. So most of ultra high net worth donors want to know that you’re being effective, right? They want to know that if they have a connection to this organization. You’re not doing anything fraudulent, right? Just not doing anything. Fraud, that’s, that’s a that’s a floor that is the floor, right? That’s the floor. They want to know that their money is going to be making a difference, right? That there’s something that their gift is going to be accomplishing of the organization, that if you did not have their gift, you couldn’t do it right, like there’s. Just something else that was that might not have been able to have been happening. But the most important, the most important again is the relationship that they have with the person who’s making me ask or the relation that they have with someone on the board. So they look at these relationships and time and time again, they go back to, even if we might be doing a deep analysis on the impact of the organization and ah, qualitative and quantitative analysis of their work. If an ultra high net worth client has a relationship to the organization, if they have relations in person who’s asking him for the money or they have relation with a boardmember or they’ve had a relationship with the cause, the cause is done something for them personally for their family, all of the statistics there, not as relevant. And i’ll tell you why because we think about how doe i compared to another organization doing similar work. So if i went to will go back to the example of autism, if there was ah, community center in my neighborhood that was working with a small group of children ages zero to five and on and i had a friend whose daughter went to that school and i saw the impact it made on my friend’s life doesn’t matter if there’s another bigger organization working on autism, finding the research, doing the working towards the cure? No, because it’s so it’s, so easy for me t sting you wish between why this organization first another not because i don’t want to know that there’s going to be a cure, but i have that connection to this organization where my friend’s daughter excels, so it goes back to what we’ve been speaking about. Beginning results matter metrics absolutely matter when you’re looking for very large gifts, he need to make sure that you could back, huh? What you’ve accomplished with someone’s donation. But the end of the day working on that relationship nine times out of ten is what an ultra high net worth persons looking for just like a high net worth person or a low networth person. They’re looking for the relationship, the connection. We want to reassure our volunteers that their time is going to be used wisely, efficiently that we we support our volunteers, are meetings or efficient let’s talk a little about a little about overcoming some of the objections that people might have to volunteer like like thie perception is that all the volunteers are retired and they have lots of time um, the job’s right there, or or there where their home with their kids so so during the breaks with their kids, like they’re trying to find meaning in their lives and those of the people you should be asking for a volunteer, not me so much right away over how do we isn’t non-profit overcome that objection. So so i don’t want to assume that that mom’s at home who have tremendous potential to volunteer, really, who have no time because it’s the busiest, it’s it’s the hardest job on the face of the universe to be at home with your children that’s why i never stayed home with my children. Ah, much easier for me to go into morgan stanley, but ultimately, volunteers is going be an issue if your children listening to this is going to cause any but it could be something the family you know what? That when it was so so ryder and talk, i just want you to know later in life when when you’re lying on the couch just say it was because my mom just it was because of my mom don’t spend all the money saving himself gave all the money out of time and money save all the money and going back to the volunteers we confined volunteers anywhere, right? And the problem that that i see non-profits have is they don’t have an established volunteer program, right? They don’t know how to maximize the effort and the energy of their volunteermatch base. So if we are going after established individuals who have very, very busy lives and you want them to volunteer for a particular purpose, then outline what is the project, the program, the day, the hour than you want them. To spend maybe it’s doing a radio show like this, right? Like maybe it’s coming into your studio and spending one hour with you talking about the work of their organization man is that away toe volunteer and to volunteer in excellence, but many organizations who have who bring in a lot of volunteers, they become their staff to some extent, they’re not spend the time giving their volunteers thie the preparation to be really good volunteers, so even small organizations that are run by predominately of volunteer base volunteers could get lost. They don’t understand, you know, how am i going to be useful to this organization? So if they go into a small school or if they go into a library, let’s make it into a library, so i’m going to volunteer for a library in my neighborhood and, you know, i’m not a librarian, right? And i don’t know how to use the dewey decimal system anymore, right? To even use the library library. I don’t rememberthat night except duitz one through nine, right? That’s because we’re old on the card, the card catalogue. I’d love to go to court catalogue sametz just glide out so nice. There, all wood with the satiny brass fixture on if you pull the handle out, a lot of little tag inside the little it’s little frame. And if someone was eating like an oreo cookie, there was like that love thumbprint, right? Greystone think dahna car in the little time we well, i i don’t know what they use that anymore in our libraries. So when you’re going into a library, you know what? How you could be volunteering in a library and making sure that the volunteers that come in there, that there’s real potential for them tio feel to feel effective. The one opportunity teo do that is tripoint someone who is going to be the leader of their volunteers, right? Who is responsible for this incredible, incredible group of people who are going to be our staff for free, right? So someone needs to be assigned to be responsible for those volunteers they could check in with them. They give them their work orders. They evaluate them. They let them know what they’re being good. Volunteers, bad volunteers. How they could improve their volunteerism. So there’s accountability and and and support absolute. Okay, we have just like a minute and a half left and i want to how do how does that non-profit get the attention of the kinds of people were talking about? And we just have, like, a minute or so let let them realize that if they’re working in the space of on dh educating kids, health care, the feeding, the poor, those are issues that ultra high net worth individuals care about, right? We have to stop thinking that small non-profits need to be in the shadow of the large, established organizations ultrahigh networks care about the issues. How do we get their attention for our small roger’s warnings and make sure that we have stories there are powerful, so if you’re going to use social media, if you’re going to use volunteers to get the message out and advocate, if you’re going to use a letter writing campaign, be concise, be clear creating a public narrative that lets them understand why they are different than other bigger organizations, and make sure that you’re getting that message out to people not just mass but, you know, make it very pointed, so clarity, concise transparency and advocate for your organization because small organization’s matter. As much as the large ones, the ninety five percent matter. What is your twitter id? Melanie espy got melanie s begun. Mm. For morgan stanley at melanie s begun. Bj u n m s thank you very much, craig. Melanie, thank you so much. Great to have you back. Good luck this weekend. Thank you. And i appreciate your not coming on my hair. By the way, i’m dying. I have a second. So i have to just tell our listeners when i first met tony when we first became friends short cropped hair. Now it’s beach fundez mario. Probably like a lion like a lion next week. Eight areas of non-profit excellence. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers ideal for millennia. Ls we b e spelling dot com our creative producers clam hyre off. Sam liebowitz is the line producer gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein of brooklyn. Be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for November 4, 2016: Increasing Your Donor Retention & Social Media For Year End

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Rachel Clemens & Sean Doles: Increasing Your Donor Retention

Keeping the donors you have saves money and increases efficiency over acquiring new ones to replace them. Retention tactics come from Rachel Clemens, president of Creative Suitcase, and Sean Doles, vice president of mission advancement at YMCA of Austin. We talked at the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference.

 

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, marcus t coleman jr he tweeted, if you work for work with or support non-profits you should give twenty martignetti is podcast i listen insightful and practical interviews, marcus, thank you so much for that insightful, impractical that’s. Um, but that’s that that says it, i mean wonderful and magnificent would be would be called keeping cubine tra in context with the superlative culture that we have but insightful, impractical. I do appreciate that. Thank you very much. Non-profit radio is in the white house with marcus because he works for the white house office of faith based and neighborhood partnerships. So cool he’s at mt coleman jr marcus, thank you so much for loving non-profit radio very appreciative. Congratulations on being our listener of the week oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with book arai assis if you wormed in with the idea that you missed today’s, show increasing your donor retention, keeping the donors you have saves money and increases efficiency over acquiring new ones to replace them. We all know that retention tactics coming from rachel clemens, president of creative suitcase, and sean dole’s, vice president of mission advancement at y m c a of austin. We talked at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and social media for year end amy sample ward returns from maternity leave with social strategies that close out your twenty sixteen and align with your critical fourth quarter fund-raising she’s, our social media contributor and ceo of inten, the non-profit technology network on tony’s take two new non-profit technology conference fund-raising videos responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers wee bey e spelling dot com from the non-profit technology conference. Here are rachel clemens and sean dole’s talking about donor welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the non-profit technology conference this interview is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose, california, at the convention center. My guests now are rachel clemens and sean dole’s that’s very nice wave wave to sean metoo dignified coming from austin you’re supposed to do who you are. Right, it’s. All right. Rachel is president at creative success non-profit communications firm. Creative suitcase. What did i say? Creative success also. Creative success. Very successful case right there. All right, let’s. Try it again. President. Creative suitcase non-profit communications firm and sean dole’s is vice president of mission advancement at the y m c a of austin. Welcome, rachel. Welcome, sean. Thanks, feminist. You’re very welcome. We’re going to get to your topic on dahna retained shortly very shortly. But i have to shout out the swag item for this interview, which is from phone to action and a cardholder for the back of your iphone. Of course. Peel off the adhesive and stick it. Stick it to your phone, and then you put your phone toe action business card in it or your subway metro card or your whatever other drivers license, et cetera. Very practical. Goes in the swag pile for today. That’s our ntcdinosaur pile it’s pretty good. It was bigger, but it got stolen overnight. You believe that? I had an auntie. I’ll score through the scarf. Got scarf. You can’t trust these non-profit folks know who’s after hours i was here, so i was. There till six. Thirty oppcoll okay, come back and see us increasing your donor retention, rachel, when we not getting quite right, some i’m not imputing all non-profits and all practices, but what are some non-profits not getting quite right about some of their donorsearch practices that are leading to too much attrition. So the reason we want to talk about this today was we work a lot with our clients to dio urine strategies or giving campaign strategies, and what happens is a lot of the times were doing the strategy we’re doing the design, and then we asked, what you going to do to cultivate these donors after the fact and there’s not a good plan for that. So what’s happening is they’re working a lot to get new donors in the door, but not necessarily working to keep the donors that they’re getting right, which is a problem. We have very high attrition rate right? Right? I’ve heard as high as seventy percent. You have you have a different number? Yeah, we have it. The number from bloomerang that forty three percent comeback for three percent fifty. Fifty seven percent. Lost right still over. Has still high. Yeah. That’s. Terrible. After all that work, i feel like it should be, like two or five percent, right? Yeah. Only because you know how much, shawn? Because we know how much it costs, of course. Toe replace a donor than to retain one. Right? It’s it’s. Infinitely more efficient to retain that donor. Keep them happy. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Uh, let’s. Jump into some strategies. My voice just cracked again. Like thursday today. Jump. Okay. Reverse puberty. Twelve years old. Yeah. One of your wanted someone a reading from the recession description to expressing gratitude. Stewardship? What can we do better around stewardship? Let’s, start with you, sean. Well, i think first and foremost, you have to have an organized plan, and then you have to execute on that plan. You have tio be judicious. It has to be realistic in terms of its sustainability. Dahna it has to fit with your level of resource is whether it’s cost or staff time. It’s gotta be realistic. So you got you gotta. You gotta create the plan. Then you gotta execute on it. And you know if you can do that. You will see a tangible result from it, and and you have to be flexible along the way. Sometimes you you have the best intentions with a plan. And then reality gets in the way. You have to adjust your not going toe get to everything on your plan. Maybe. Or maybe you try something that you intended to do and it’s not working the way you had envisioned. You got to adjust, but donors will recognized the effort made to thank them, too. Communicate the impact of their gifts. They recognize that in it. And it is that that appreciation is manifested with recurring donation. What what types of things? Rachel belong in our are our stewardship plan strategy, right? So i think the first place is what are you going to do? What? The tastic tactics you’re going to put in place? So is sean mention thanking them so cumulative. Thank you’s, both online and off. So you might look a email strategies, impact videos, any sort of mfa graphics that might be appropriate to show impact. You also want to think about, huh? Okay, basically, the reason you want to do a lot of those things is that you want to remind them why they give in the first place. So thinking about why they might have given segmentation is also something to think about. So when they give the first donation, why are they giving you might ask them what particular focus area they have so that you can do many campaigns to them around those focus areas moving forward, so there’s air some tactics, and i think another key point is is personalization. To the extent that it is possible your organization’s may have thousands of donors, but to the extent that you can cut through and have a one to one communication to them that says, tony, thank you for your gift. Here is how you have made an impact on someone’s life, including if if we know if they’ve if they’ve given it to a certain campaign, right? We’re certain program recognizing that and and and i realize we’re at a non-profit technology conference, but in this day and age, something as traditional as a hand written note or a personal phone call such kari carries considerable currency and can be some of the most effective forms of stewardship that we could do. I’m a big fan of handwritten notes there, so they’re more effective now, then they then they were twenty years ago on the y has the benefit of having children as part of their after school campaign, so they’ll use kids will create bookmarks as part of can’t arts and crafts project. Hey, we got another arts and crafts project for you were making book bark, so we’re making placemats and we get a thousand kids making place mats and then we turn and we share them with our donors and anecdotally, those air, some of the most effective stewardship pieces that we create, people say our love, this bookmark it puts a smile on my face every time i you know, i’m flipping through the pages of my favorite novel, retouching of course it’s sweet it’s, handmade child made made in the usa what’s not to, like made in austin, texas. That’s. Right? All right, all right. What else? Stewardship meet such a broad topic? How else should we be thanking our donors and in the process? You know, as you point out, rachel were cultivating them suddenly for their next gift. So what else can we say about stuart, i think another thing to consider our reactivation campaigns or win back campaign, so for example, if if you’ve got a large database, but you’re not getting a lot of engagement from that database, segmenting those those donors in the database that you would consider an active so you would define what makes an active donorsearch o r there’s someone who’s given in the last year, they opened our emails, click right? You take the enact of bunch and you take them through reactivation campaign. So basically, you say, hey, we haven’t heard, you know, we haven’t. We’ve missed you. Um, we’d like to re a connect with you or this is the last time you’ll hear from us, and at that point you’re asking them toe op back in you’re not asking them to opt out, you’re asking them to say, i still want to get information from you on, but once you do that, you can take him through sort of a re welcome siri’s or something like that that would basically re engage them, get them interacting, opening things again before you go and ask for money can go it’s, not an effort, teo ask for money right out the gate. Okay, so it’s more just trying to get some engagement. Yeah, show that they’re still interested. Okay, okay, education. Re connect them to the cause. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti, dot com that’s t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. And, you know, from the outset, i think they’re several different ways you can approach this categorically one is kind of short, medium and long range, you know, the immediate recognize mission, the immediate thank you letter or communication, it goes out then what’s going on what’s going to be going out on a monthly or quarterly basis. Other other ways to conceptualize it are the online versus offline, you know, there’s a handful of things that, you know, like i mentioned the note, the phone call, you know, in in our organization, we recognize major donors by hanging banners in our wine say facilities might walk into a gymnasium or a swimming pool area, and you see a big banner on the wall many, you know, museums or schools have different sign inch opportunities so there’s there’s, you know, and then they’re they’re all the online tools now that are available. There’s obviously, emails where you can communicate impact stories, whether it’s us, short form digital videos, your email, communications, social, social media where you’re recognizing a donor through your social media channels. Dahna you’re doing much with the video in this in this category there’s a stewardship and cultivation we we do it in a way we do a lot, and it about two years ago it became ah, strategic focus for us. When we saw that, you know, we could send out an email that would have lines of lines and lines of text, and it would have a certain sort of open raid or click through rate, or we put a video there and the, you know, the open rates or the quick through rates were astronomically hyre so would much rather quick on the video watch it even if they only sit there for thirty seconds or a minute. So we put a big emphasis on video. And so we we created dahna a program that we called project fifty to which was essentially a goal of creating ah video and sending it out once a week, fifty two weeks a year that would communicate some ass aspect of impact and who was the scent, too? This would be sent to two donors or specific segmented groups within our within our donor or within our stakeholder based people that might have expressed a specific interest in water safety or childhood obesity or family that we don’t you know, we like most non-profits we don’t have tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy advertising, teo, tell these stories to the community, so we had to figure out cost efficient, cost effective ways to get these stories out. And so that’s one way that we’ve done that another way, you know where i was trying to regional it sounds like you had yeah, look like you want to say something e o i was actually going toe have him speak about how they’re doing thank you videos for their donorsearch i was the other piece of it that in addition to that, we’ve done some very, very simple. What were we no budget videos using a phone smartphone? Yeah. Ah, where we take a group of kids that summer camp we give him ah poster that says, you know, thank you, mr jones, for making our summer, you know, remarkable and, you know, it’s a one minute video that you then personally email to this major donor doing the video just for that person just for that person. Yeah. And that on social it took a minute to do that video and we were we would do twenty of those videos right to made me obviously, if you’ve got thousands of donors, you can’t do it wrong, but your major donors and it can make a huge difference. They share that with their friends, their family, and then they’re going to love that, and the production value doesn’t matter if it’s in this day and age it’s accepted, i have i have a lot of guests who say low production values find its sincerity right, hart, authentic genuineness, authentic that’s what that’s, what really grabs people not you know you don’t need to make a makeup lights. Yeah, they’re used to cat videos. I mean, we’re fine this’s that moves us, it doesn’t have to be high production value, too, to be enormously moving and a great, great choice, okay, anything else around the thank you’s? The gratitude i would just add one thing coming from a visual communications background is to make whatever you’re producing to make it his visual or as compelling as you can. So there’s a lot of especially in austin, we have over six thousand non-profits there’s, a lot of noise in our space sustaining out can be tricky e-giving people, things they can engage with or that looks like something they’d want to share goes a long way just that visual communication is really important. I think sometimes it doesn’t get the web is visual. Yeah, people stand, they don’t read you kidding this thing’s going to click video? Yeah, i think the other thing too back-up actually one of the things that’s most crucial and dahna retention is actually making that first give really simple and really easy. So making the give process online like if they’re going to come through your donation page making sure that donation page the user experience on that page is optimized for your user where they don’t have to think too hard. They have to do too much work, making it super simple no again making it visually interesting. Maybe you add delight factor. There’s organization called saturday place has a great little donation feature. You hit their donation page and is very visual. You have a sliding scale of dollar amounts so you can play with it and see how the impact changes. Oh, so you slide the scale and what happens is little pictures. Yeah, there’s little icons. The change. And so it might be like apples, so you’re you’re providing lunches for saturday place or along the other side. They have they have different categories so you can provide basics, which is the lower dollar amounts or at the very high end, you can provide futures so that i mean, wow, right, that’s pretty cool. So and so, as your slideshare seeing different icons? Yeah, you’re seeing them change based on what you’re giving her. What the impact is wonderful, it’s really good, you know, the other piece of that is at the entry point designing your systems so that you can collect information that will help you. You segment to your donor’s mohr, effectively, whether you are using an offline old fashioned pledge card that maybe has a section where people can indicate what areas of focus our of of key concern to them or in your online donation page, maybe pull down menu where they have the option of selecting, you know, identifying that, you know, out of school time or or educational enrichment is of your concern to them then subsequently, when you were we’re going through your stewardship plan, you can maybe segment that group and share some some impact stories with them that are particularly that air going toe particularly speak to that to that audience so segmentation personalization, but designed that into the process from the very beginning. Okay, surveys could be valuable there, too, if you have maybe you haven’t built into the to the process where you have some donors for whom maybe they didn’t answer the question or you weren’t doing it then. But, you know, simple, like five six question surveys i’ve heard this a couple of times from a few different guests easy, you know? But you have to keep up. You have to keep your promise if they say this is the programs i’m interested in or i only want to hear from you at holiday time, you know, don’t get them in february when they talked about, you know, december, their preferred month. I think people can also use their thank you pages after a donation as a way to get some of that demographic information. So for example, they’ve just given to you, they just engaged with you. Maybe you don’t want to do it on the front end in the donation page section because you’re worried about having more fields or whatever the case may be. So putting those making that thank you, paige, work for you. You could try testing. You know, some of the segmentation questions after the fact after the way they don’t have to open a separate email survey. You know, maybe just put it right there. Could test how many d’oh. Okay? Because the reality is, the more questions you ask up front, the more boxes you require them to check the mohr attrition. You’re going ritual saying make a donation process simple. Yes. And after now, i’ve given my gift now that was thoughtful enough to ask you, how many times a year to our do they want? Do i want to hear from them? What times of yes, the moment they feel best. Right? Right? Yeah. They’re feeling great. And they’re giving moment. Yeah. That’s. What? It could be a valuable test. Excellent. Let’s. Move. Teo yeah. I had a plan for an implement. Sustainer sustainers campaigns. We talkabout reactivation kapin about your sustainers program. What do you we know how valuable those are, right. Month after month. Just giving five dollars, twenty dollars? You know, whatever. I think the keating house, any plan is to have a plan. I mean, truly that’s where a lot of it breaks down. You know, you might have a goal to make. Increase your sustainers but it all comes down to the processes that are underlying, you know, foundation for making those things happen. So making sure you have ah, you know, a marketing template that you can work off of that you’re building a plan every time you’re getting stakeholder input into that plan, you could probably speak more to the actual implementation. Well, like, you know, in one instance, y m c a. We have facility members. We have what is essentially a sustaining member ship, that we will mark it several times. You really emphasize that toe where somebody would be paying, say, an additional ten dollars a month on top of there, traditional y m c a membership dues, right? And so in in, in order to recognize them, they get a special membership card that they swipe every time they come in, they get a special shirt there’s several other ways that we recognize them had become sort of ah, conversation piece for them and in a continual reminder of their support for the why i will run several very finite, you know, tightly plans many campaigns throughout the year like one around water safety coming up on this time of year one is we approach summer camp one is we approach after school care one at the very end of the year and will utilize the segmentation there so so that we’re only hitting those audiences that indicated we cared about water safety we cared about, you know, you know, the summer in richmond, right? And so we’re not creating donorsearch a t hg where, you know, a single donor feels like us you’ve you’ve asked me twelve times this year to give you money, you know? Wait, ideally, maybe we’ve asked them twice on specifically for the program save right expressed interest in yeah, again segmentation, yeah, for the sustainers thing i think one thing that’s interesting if you look at the younger audiences, you know, they grew up paying for things monthly, and they’re used to streaming video and paying eight dollars a month for netflix, so i think thinking about maybe how you khun specifically target that age demographic for sustainers might be an interesting test, you know, like and in it there they’re used to self where is a service? You know, it’s sort of the same model, but in non-profit world? Yeah, just excellent. Yeah. You’re right there in the habit of yeah, of being just routinely build. Okay, we just have a couple minutes left. Something about anything more around. Oh, you have some ideas about digital automation deciding which tools are best for you. So, yeah, i think the thing about data and if you’re gonna have a plan, you’re gonna be able to track and measure that plan, right? So sean always says garbage in garbage out if you don’t have a good database that’s pulling in accurate and good data, then you’re not going to get very far. Eso we you know, we talked in the session about before you look at features for databases, really looking at what your needs are, what your goals are, and you need to make sure that if you’re in development, that you’re talking to the communications department as well, you’re dahna programs anybody that’s going to touch that data needs to have some upfront say about, well, how they’ll use it why they want it. What it’s going to do for them? S o before you look at features really looking at needs and goals, what are the paint points? What the problem is you’re trying to solve with this new data base, you know? And then the other key point there is, once you have the database in place and you’re able to extract data creating reports that are meaningful that you can use in actionable way. So in other words, we create report cards, so to speak, for each of our facilities for the campaigns they run as well as for our association, where we’re tracking dahna retention, we’re tracking, you know, major major gifts, number of major gifts, number of gifts under a thousand dollars. We have all these different metrics that then we can we can analyze and see what kind of patterns emerge and then use that information. That’s really it’s not anecdotal, it’s, not a gut your level hunch, it’s riel. And then we use that to formulate strategies that will improve our performance in the next campaign. So then we owe our major donor, you know, level percentage, major give percentage. Was down. We want to formulate some strategies that are going to address that little things like that will help us create riel pathways for improvement in the future. We got some templates were goingto have up on our where slides live ones, a marketing campaign temple and then someone in the session as sean to share templates for the report card. How can we share these there at creative suitcase dot com slash sixteen and tc? Okay, they’re also in our collaborative notes, okay, people here here for people who are here subscribed to ntc conversations, but otherwise creative suitcase dot com slash sixteen and t c you okay and what’s their marketing template. Yeah, one is, ah, word template is a marketing campaign template, so it’s, like, what are we trying to achieve, who our audiences is, what our risk. So it basically ask all the questions that are hard to get to on your own sometimes seem just fill those in. It talks about tactics, you start running with that, and then shawn, is it excel docks? E think it’s actually a word i have to look and see, but well, it’ll be a template for for establishing a report card for your campaign performance that’ll be in the same place. Okay, that’s a great resource. We’re gonna leave it there. All right? Sounds. Thank you. Alright. Rachel clemens. Sean dole’s. Rachel again is the president of creative suitcase non-profit communications and sean dole’s, vice president of mission advancement at the y m c a in boston. They’re both from austin. Sounds that’s rachel too. Thank you very much. Thanks for having us over sharing. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the non-profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us. Social media for year end with amy. Sample ward is coming up first. Pursuant, they’ve got another free webinar for you. Upgrade your best donors today, it’s with pursuant consultants chris taft and christian priest and they will help you identify your donors who have capacity and interest in doing more for you. Maximize your resource is to engage the right prospects and fine tune your prospect visits it’s on tuesday, november fifteenth at twelve central and to register you go to pursuant, dot com under resource is click webinars and that when again is upgrade your best donors. Today we’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising spelling bees with live music and dancing and stand up comedy and spelling monisha lt’s raising money for ugh, these air ideal for that because fund-raising is but this is all about is great fun, but it’s fund-raising as well. Check out their video we b e spelling dot com now it’s tony’s, take two, i’ve got more non-profit technology conference video interviews for you these are all on fund-raising donorsearch vase growing your sustainers revenue byway non-profit times just had a recent story from blackbaud sbi pecan unconference something like triple digit revenue hikes from sustainers, and they’re quoting chuck longfield who’s, the chief scientist at blackbaud, also a non-profit radio guest, all the smart people around non-profit radio s o sustainers revenue very, very timely and smart email marketing and dahna retention, which is today’s interview, but you could watch the video. They’re all from the twenty sixteen conference hosted by the non-profit technology network. Of course, my video on the beach introduces thes four videos and has links below it’s at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two. The phone just rang and i know it was amy sample ward, maybe step award. How you doing? I’m doing well. How are you? I’m wonderfully thank you. Let me give you a proper introduction. Our social media contributor and ceo of inten, the non-profit technology network. Her most recent co authored book is social change any time everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s that amy sample ward, dot or ge and at amy r s board are for renee. Of course. Welcome back. Of course. Thank you. I’m glad to be back. Yes, that we did chat, you know, briefly on the three hundredth show, but now you’re officially back from maternity leave. Congratulations again. It’s. Wonderful. Thank you. Yeah. And and on that show, which was july twenty ninth, little lauren lewis was three months. That was his three month birthday s. So now, he’s. Just a little over six months, right? Yeah, exactly. Outstanding. Eso excited. So exciting for you and max. Wonderful. Yeah, it is exciting. And it is crazy that he’s six goes fast. I heared from all my friends who have children. I don’t know, personally, but my niece and nephew it does go fast. Yes. You have a little ah, little baby anecdote, little baby, orin louis anecdote. You want to tell her anything? Ah, that his peculiarities or anything? You sure? You know, i think every baby is different and he’s got he is certainly a product up his parents. When we meet up with other people that have babies, he is the only one who is constantly trying to talk, try to like, touch and engage all of the other big its crew. They’re all just lying there looking at him. Multi-channel he’s trying to talk to boys multi-channel engagement strategy has seen a lot of ourselves in him already. Cool. All right. That’s. Great. Multi-channel engagement. Listen. Seventeen ntc registration seventeen to twenty seventeen. Non-profit technology conference registration just opened. I note way want encourage people to go to that it’s an outstanding conference registration just opened three years ago on the first, and we’re already at record response. So we know this is going to be a really big ear. Excellent. All right. Just, uh, just he’s. Just this, like, weak or not? Even what? Today’s the fourth, right? So just in three days, you’re already ahead from this time last year, three days in last year o ahead from any year, yeah, standing, congratulations. Okay, so people goto and ten dot or ge and then i don’t even know do you have to click on the events tab? But now it just opens it and take you right there on the stage and ten dot org’s okay, go to the conference for pizza, but this one is in washington d c right? Yeah. It’s in washington, d c march twenty third through the twenty fifth and you know, dc is always our largest year whenever we go to d c because so many organizations air there or have partners there and feel like, you know, they’re they’re used to travelling there, so we know we always plan for the years that were in dc to be the biggest we’ve had, but it’s always like the biggest we’ve had until that year, so we know this year will be kind of the record that we’ve ever had until sometime in the future we go back, but yeah, it’ll be it’ll be fun. We’re planning all kinds of fun things. For this next-gen outstanding, always lots of hundreds of smart people speaking and it’s a very smart conference. So go and learn how to use technology wisely wiser in your social change work. That’s cool, i said, we want to talk about some some strategies that you have for year end social media um, and before we before we jump into, like, different strategies, i would like to start with how to evaluate whether we’re doing the right thing or not through our social engagement strategies. And you like google analytics for that? Yes, i mean, i think the biggest thing both kind of tio, this piece that you’ve brought up and more broadly to the idea of social media around you’re in campaigns it’s so frustrating and dishearten name to me when i see organizations or talked to organizations who are, whether it’s a you’re in campaign or any other time of the year and social media is like a compartment of itself it’s over, you know, on one side, and then you have, like, all these other people and and channels that you’re working on the campaign, and i feel like that’s, just setting yourself up to seo. Social media is invaluable toe, right? Because it’s not even a part of your plan and it wasn’t part of how you thought of the strategy, and it was only later that you were like, oh, gosh, we have this campaign going on let’s tweet a bunch about it, but that’s not that’s, not integrating right disintegrating social media into your campaign, you know, that still an after thought, and i think, um, just recognizing that you wouldn’t say, okay, we’re going to launch this fund-raising appeal for the end of the year, and we’re not going to tell anyone who’s going to work on the e mails related to it until, like, the day of, well, you would never do that. So why’re you doing that with all the social channels, you know, here don’t make social a step child? Thanks. Well, just don’t make it a separate no don’t help integrate. Integrate. Yeah, yeah, right. So so in our planning way want to build in analytics? Yeah. Okay. What? What? What advice do you have around specific? You are l’s? Or how would you like us to do this? Yeah. There is a lot with with google analytics. That you can do i mean, first, i always think you should go into planning campaigns with some sort of information already. So looking at your google analytics before you start planning your campaign to say, okay, gosh, what parts of the site are people using? I’m sure many organizations have a donate page that’s up year round, you know, our people even going to it to the rest of the year if they’re not then putting your year and campaign information on that donate paige is probably not going to get a lot of eyes right because no one’s going that way. So do some of your homework before you start planning using google analytics looking how people are using your site, but then also, you know, google analytics separates out traffic, evaluate what kind of social traffic you have for us, say direct links, which a direct link is often you know, that you sent him emails and someone had a direct link into your sight. We have to search or anything, so figure out what that incoming traffic flow is like now, because otherwise you’re going to spend planning your campaign, you’re going to want you and be like, oh gosh, we have all these people visiting our website. Well, maybe you already had that be visiting your website. You know you’re not gonna have anything to really inform your evaluations think doing some homework first on how people are using this i and also how people are getting to the site if they’re coming from social channels, they’re coming from email so that when you plan, you plan with those pieces in mind and then once you’re running the campaign it’s really not difficult, and there are plenty of resource is if if you want some step by step guides on using google analytics to set up what are called campaign girls so that you can instead of just always writing, for example, and tend that order, you can have a longer you are all that is still just sending people same page, but that girl has some important code, innit for google analytics, so it knows this is a link that you’re only using on social media for this specific pain, you know, here’s a different version of that code in that girl that you’re going to put in your email and that way you can say okay, we’re all obviously sending people as much as we can to the donate page or two, you know, to the ntc page. Um, but we’re able to look in guru bilich cincy, okay, a lot of the people that are coming are coming from social media, and those are the ones who are, you know, staying and going to the register page, etcetera, and then these folks coming from email, you know, they’re not coming as much or or whatever the situation is, but using the campaign you or else we’ll help give you so much more information about who’s responding, who’s coming to that page and how they’re taking action, okay? And it xero so it sorry, yeah, you’re you’re monitoring where they’re coming from and where they’re going to all in that bowling, that girl because of where you because we were in place because where you place it? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Brilliant. Okay. And there’s, of course. There’s tons to be said about google analytics. I think i think i’ve got an interview from one of the ntc on google analytics. I know we have one on google adwords, but separate. I know there’s. We could i know we could do ours on google analytics. Oh, totally. And like i said, there are resources to help give you some step by step if you’re new to using it. But it’s google analytics is free. You should be using that, and it does not take on incredible amount of technical knowledge to get it set up. You just have one little line of code you need to add to your website, and then your account is activated and you and you could do all this tracking. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Any you mentioned resource is do you know any off the top of your head that you can recommend? Yeah. I’m happy tio tweet a few and sent him to you to post up with the the archive. But with the takeaways, i could put him on the facebook page. Okay, you know, if you’re okay that you could do that? Sure. Um, okay, is there any other point you want to make about the analytics before we get into actually doing the campaign work? Well, i guess the last point that i’ll make kind of to wrap it back up to where we started is that if you don’t do that homework at the beginning to create some sort of benchmarks when you launch the campaign and you’re trying to kind of report out to staff or even your board about how well it’s going it’s going to feel really arbitrary to say, one hundred people from social media donated, right? Well, great. What is that compared to before the camera? That, yeah, so do that homework so that you could be informed in your planning, but also so that you can kind of report against that benchmark, you know? So so you’re reporting makes sense and has some context. Okay, very good. If we’re going to do this as part of a campaign, then we need to have consistency across all our all our channels, right? Yeah. I mean, one thing i always think about just in our own planning it and ten is that regardless of the age, demographic and regardless of the channel, that the donation comes in. So even if somebody is going to write you a physical check, the majority of people still go to your website before they make that donation. So even if they are following you on social media and that’s where they saw the ask and they’re going to do it online donation people are still kind of following up on your ask and and what it is that you’re potentially working on before they donate. And so the the huge opportunity there is to recognize that you’re not necessarily always going to know where they saw that ask and what is it? What other piece of your work they’re evaluating? So creating some consistent experience around that is huge, and it doesn’t take a ton of work. Most organizations are already going to create some sort of collateral or brandy material for their campaign, so making sure that you have those same images in the right dimensions, right cause, of course, every platform wants to have its own particular dimensions, but so that your facebook banner, you know, has an image that reflects your campaign. Maybe you are, you know, to use a pretty standard example for your ad campaign there’s, a family that you serve and you’re telling their story in your appeal letter, right? So making sure that maybe a quote from that story that’s really compelling as a standalone quote is in your facebook, the inner and your twitter banner has a reference of the same campaign. So wherever folks are kind of touching into the campaign and then moving around to evaluate if they do want to donate their there, seen the same, uh, appeal. Not that it’s, like exactly the same image over and over, and they’re just getting sick of it. But you’re within that same world of the campaign instead of heading over to your twitter page and having it be about your last event, hate and it is completely unrelated and doesn’t speak to the same thing. Okay, very good. Tomorrow, let’s, go out for our break, and when we come back, i’ve got live listener love. Of course, the live love has to go out and me, and i’ll keep talking, including integrating offline, you’re offline support for your social support for your year end campaign. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, tap trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. I’m melanie schnoll begun managing director morgan stanley philantech management. Melanie schnoll begun is next week’s guest for the hour all right, the live listener love it’s gotta go out it’s all over the world. It’s amazing. May where we’re starting, we’re going to start a broad protest it i don’t know if i’m saying it right. Testy romania love it kayman jin germany guten tag the live listener love goes out also to norway. We can see the city but i really don’t want to mispronounce it g et u p h e norway live listen, her love to you philippines we got craze on city. Istanbul, turkey. Milano, italy, seoul, south korea, on io haserot, of course, comes a ham nida also ottawa nation’s capital canada. Checking in ottawa live listener love to you, iran. I’m sorry. We cannot see your city. But we know that you are with us. Coming into the u s st louis, missouri, rosedale, new york, binghamton, new york, new york, new york. Unbelievable. New york. Thank you for that new york love it’s going out to you. Thank you for bringing it in. It’s going out, including new york, new york. Love that. Thank you. College station, texas with us live love. Eugene, oregon not oregon. I heard i was on a bus yesterday, and somebody said she was taking jetblue to oregon and i wanted tap on the shoulder corrector no it’s, oregon, eugene, oregon live listen, love going to you okay? And, of course, on the heels of the live listen, love comes the podcast pleasantries because how could we not say thank you to its really its more than ten thousand now? The numbers are going up it’s more like twelve thirteen thousand i make it official, but i want to see if it sticks before i start boasting, but we certainly have had shows where they’ve been twelve close to thirteen thousand listeners. Yes, is that consistent? Not quite, but were spiking. So podcast pleasantries to the many tens of thousands one point three, ten thousands listening. Thank you so much. Whatever activity you’re doing whenever you listen in your time shift. Thanks for being with us and the affiliate affections to our many am and fm station listeners throughout the country, including in oregon, i mentioned yugi eugene, oregon live. Listen, love, we’re on a station in salem, oregon, so if you were listening on one of the am and fm affiliates affections to you. Thank you so much, kayman sample ward. Um, here we are and, uh, let’s move along to ah what’s your next you threw out another strategy. Go ahead. What else? You want to talk about social media wise for our year end campaign? Sure. Well, i think one thing that we’ve seen organizations kind of struggle with or unnecessarily struggle with that kind of stumble with is how to balance their own kind of full year and campaign with these e-giving days that are now more prominent so e-giving tuesday often is happening kind of in the middle of people ar e having their own urine campaign, and then sometimes towards the end of the year, sometimes at other times of the year, you know, different states or regions have their own kind of local giving day. And so how do you balance all the effort that goes into, you know, even just a single giving day and having visibility and donors on that with what we’re already running for six weeks? Kind of an end of your campaign, and i think that that is tricky. I think it it requires planning. For that day, when you’re doing your full end of your campaign, if you’re going tohave, you know, six weeks is your end of your campaign knowing okay in week three e-giving tuesday is happening, so is there may be a version of our campaign ass that we want to reserve, as are kind of giving tuesday version of the ask so that it feels like, you know, an opportunity to make an additional asked during the campaign that otherwise maybe would have felt like too many asked, right? Because you’re kind of taking advantage of that day versus feeling like, you know, okay, we’re going to create a whole separate giving tuesday campaign. I think organization should try to be really realistic about their capacity, because e-giving days in and of themselves take a lot of effort, and your primary effort is probably going to be your own and of your campaign, but not necessarily completely avoid it. If it is something that’s going to give you a little bit more attraction, or like i said before, an opportunity to maybe make a different version of the ass that gives you one more touchpoint during the campaign, so planning is important and also being realistic about what your team can do, you know, you maybe, you know, maybe you need to pass on giving tuesday or something else in your in your year and strategy, you know, be realistic. I mean, you know, it’s the same thing we’ve talked about so many times, like shiny object syndrome, you know, in in the social channels, no, you can’t do everything in your year end campaign that you might like, so plan and be realistic and, you know, obviously get the get those the input of the people who are going to be doing the work one i think the other part about being realistic there is that for, you know, the vast majority of organizations that bulk of donations for your end of your campaign aren’t coming the first week of december, they’re coming the last week of december. So the timing of giving tuesday as the tuesday right after thanksgiving may not be the most high traffic time or your donor’s anyway. So thinking about that, too, do not have unrealistic expectation that, you know, that’s going to become your your bigot e-giving day now, and if it isn’t you know what? What do you want on giving days that made on giving tuesday? Is that a day like you said, you know, to skip because for your community it’s not worth it? Is it for your community an opportunity to maybe make a really small, ask and get people that otherwise wouldn’t give to give just ten dollars, and then you can ask them again before the end of the year? You know, i think there’s different ways to kind of use giving tuesday as a test for your community, but for most organizations who are running a full end of your campaign that’s just going to be one little blip in the longer campaign, it could also be for something smaller and non non non financial, maybe it’s, maybe it’s a signing of a petition or maybe it’s volunteering, maybe maybe use giving tuesday is a volunteer recruitment day. Totally, i think that’s a great idea because it led people deal like they’re still participating in that day and they’re still contributing to the organization, but maybe those are the folks who wouldn’t give for soon, and they’re not going to otherwise respond to ask, yeah, and so leading up to giving tuesday and and that day, you’re taking a little break from from from the money asks, and then you get back to it. Okay, um, okay, anything else you got in that? In that respect? Um, i mean, no, we could we could talk. I mean, i want to be conscious of time and talk a little bit about offline, too, because i think a few great pieces from the interview earlier in the show today, okay, let’s do that. Okay? Like, let’s, go there, the piece about cards, you know, and thinking about those riel physical touches that make make it so much more meaningful. Um, i’m such a i’m such a big such a big proponent of the hand written note on dh and the small card that you can do, you know, you know, you don’t starita blanket and a half by eleven inch page on your on your screen and feel like i have to fill it with words for the next forty forty minutes. Yeah, it’s one or two sentences on a on a little note size card and then a matching envelope i mean, hand written envelope it’s it’s enormously touching me. Sean dole’s, sean and shauna. Rachel both said it, but yeah, i’ve been a fan of that for a long time. It’s quick, it’s, genuine and sincere and it’s uh, extraordinary. It just doesn’t happen anymore, so you’re standing on when that we’ve tried is specifically when it comes to kind of year end things, of course we love at and then we love sending cards and stickers and things all year round, but when it comes to the end of your things picking a threshold like fifty dollars or five hundred dollars, whatever is your makes sense as a line for your organization and saying, ok, anybody at that number above is going to get a handwritten card and then because that takes slightly more capacity, but then we’ll also pick a day, usually before people go off line for the holidays so, like, you know, maybe the seventeenth or the eighteenth of december and anyone who was donated by then we divide up among staff so that every staff person only has, you know, eight or twelve people, and everybody just called to say thank you for donating doesn’t ask for another gift, doesn’t the purpose of the call is just to say thank you and, you know, as you can imagine, eight times out of ten, you’re getting a voicemail anyway, because people are at work or whatever, but we get such incredible response. From people saying, oh, my gosh, you actually called to thank me for it just donating because otherwise donating is pretty human list, right? You just goto you got an email, you went to a website, you, you know, putting your credit card like you didn’t interact with anybody. So being able to have a card or a phone call to say thankyou makes it feel like we saw that you gave that gift right? And that i think, is a really powerful thing is that people have people recognize that someone’s paying attention, right? They know that i made this gift and i am seen by this organization. I think that for a year on campaign, when there’s so many messages out there and, you know, so many different competing asks it can make people really remember you that’s where we have to leave it outstanding. I agree the offline on, and it is fun. It could be a lot of fun. She’s amy sample ward, ceo of inten at amy sample ward, dot or ge, and at amy rs ward. You still got it. You haven’t lost it since the spring loved having you love having you back. She’s gone already you believe that you hung up on us? I think you’re cutting all the way cutting out so i don’t know if i could say anything ever having. Very welcome and i was saying you didn’t you haven’t lost it since the spring next week. Next week, as i said, melanie schnoll begun how to appeal to high net worth people also next week please vote whoever for it’s important. Get out, please vote. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com the beseech got lost the past couple weeks. I don’t know what happened to beseech but it’s back if you’re not responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. 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When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe. Add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? 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