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Nonprofit Radio for April 10, 2023: The High Growth Nonprofit


Matt ScottThe High Growth Nonprofit

Matt Scott returns to talk us through his new book, “The High Growth Nonprofit.” He urges you to shed the 5% growth mindset and plan for exponential growth with your rapid growth plan. Matt is CEO of CauseMic.



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[00:01:19.31] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your Aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. And oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of gero morph. Um Is um if you made me lose my mind because you missed this week’s show The high growth non profit Matt Scott returns to talk us through his new book, the high growth non profit he urges you to shed the 5% growth mindset and planned for exponential growth with your rapid growth plan. Matt is CEO of Cosmic On Tony’s take 2:23 NTC shows coming. We’re sponsored by Donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor box dot org. Here is the high growth non profit It’s my pleasure

[00:01:54.73] spk_1:
to welcome back, Matt Scott to non profit radio He is CEO and co founder of Cosmic A Portland Oregon based consultancy, helping nonprofits leverage best in class for profit methods to grow their organizations before cosmic. He was a fundraising leader on the inside of numerous young and fast nonprofits One of which he helped take from $275,000 to $51 million dollars in seven years. We’ll be talking about that one. He’s the author of the book, The

[00:01:56.66] spk_0:
High Growth non profit Proven steps

[00:02:14.23] spk_1:
to quickly double your revenue and drive impact. The company is at cosmic dot com and Matt’s book is at cosmic dot com slash book. Matt Scott. Welcome back to the nonprofit radio

[00:02:17.02] spk_2:
Thank you for having me saw this on the calendar and was feeling pretty stoked about

[00:02:21.16] spk_1:
it. Thank you. Oh, you just look five minutes ago like you haven’t been anticipating it for the past month.

[00:02:26.62] spk_2:
I absolutely looked last night and was okay.

[00:02:30.26] spk_1:
Alright. I’ll accept 12 hours of excitement is, is terrific. Thank you. Congratulations. Congratulations on the book, the high growth, non profit

[00:02:42.82] spk_2:
Thank you. Yeah, I think uh if any of your, if any of your listeners have ever have ever written a book, they will probably relate. It took me twice as long as I thought it would to

[00:02:54.74] spk_1:
write. Yes, I’ve heard that numerous times. Right. All right. But it’s done. Congratulations.

[00:03:00.58] spk_2:
Thank you.

[00:03:04.07] spk_1:
Let’s talk with, with a 30,000 ft view. You, you reference different uh degrees of views in the book and one of them is 30,000 ft. What, what’s a high growth? Non profit

[00:03:42.37] spk_2:
I think a high growth, non profit is an organization that is looking to go beyond incremental growth. Um, an organization that’s looking to double their revenue and impact Over the next 2-3 years. Um and it’s an organization. Yeah, that’s that’s willing to take bold calculated risk and also follow some some process and systems to get there. Um Yeah, it’s an organization ready to invest in growth.

[00:04:06.79] spk_1:
Okay. That’s audacious doubling in 2-3 years, growth revenue and impact. Alright, so one of the early chapters makes it clear that if we’re gonna achieve high growth, we need to outgrow Our 5% mindset. Yeah, help us through.

[00:04:17.67] spk_2:
Yeah, this is, this is my favorite exercise or tip or uh out you know, just learning from the book um because it’s worked time and time again. Big small, it scales at every size organization. It’s quite simple. It’s most organizations especially fundraisers are guilty of this. They set these really low revenue targets and then they like to wildly exceed them. Um At least that’s what I do know that was a frontline fundraiser um but

[00:04:39.75] spk_1:
really classic uh under under over, perform under

[00:05:52.32] spk_2:
undersell over. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So outgoing the 5% growth mindset is this idea that most organizations look to grow, say 5 10 15% you know, and the reality is you don’t actually have to do anything differently in order to grow that incremental growth. You just have to do what you’re currently doing and do it a little bit better. And so what we encourage folks to do is to kind of gather around a whiteboard with their team and say, answer this question, what if we had no choice but to double our revenue with half the resources over the next three years, what would we do? And it’s awesome because in a resource constrained environment, you’re forced to uh get creative innovation comes to life and you’re forced to ruthlessly prioritize. And that’s usually how you can begin to set a path towards exponential growth. Um And we’ve, we’ve seen this, we’ve seen this work at lots of clients and I think it’s something that uh that is an easy thing for a leader to do.

[00:06:01.45] spk_1:
And in addition to having an audacious growth goal mindset, you need to have a plan for achieving audacious goals, which is what to me, this is what the book is all about. It’s not enough to just be audacious in goal setting. We need to have a method of getting there that’s going to be different than what we’ve been doing.

[00:06:20.66] spk_2:
Yeah, exactly. I, I could, I could say I would like to be £50 lighter by my birthday. But if I don’t actually have any plan to, you know, to replace, uh to, to drink green tea and eat more vegetables, I probably am not going to get there.

[00:06:42.53] spk_1:
I love the idea of exponential exponential growth. Let’s talk about the North Star and why don’t you talk about the North Star? What’s our North Star?

[00:07:04.73] spk_2:
Yeah, I think what’s, what comes to mind for me is, is unlike a mission statement, a North Star is sort of this, this guiding light for your organization. It’s more about the why. Um And you know, the analogy kind of comes to mind like as you’re a kid and you’re exploring and you know, or any explorer really. And the thought is that this North Star can kind of take you in a certain direction, It can always guide you and point you there. And it’s something that when I was at Team Rubicon nonprofit that, that, that re purposes the skills of military veterans to, to assist folks who have been affected by disaster. Um

[00:07:26.80] spk_1:
That’s the organization that you grew referred to in your bio.

[00:07:31.76] spk_2:
Yeah, exactly. I was a part of, uh, I was a part of our rapid growth there and in fundraising and, uh, there was a lot of people involved in that but, but the organization was ran by, um, this guy named Jake Wood, a former marine. Uh, if there’s any marines listening, I apologize. There’s no such thing as a former marine, a marine, I should say.

[00:07:53.23] spk_1:
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:08:39.45] spk_2:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I hope I still make his Christmas card list, um, for making that error. But, yeah, Jake pounded the North Star in our head to be the best disaster relief organization in the world. And we were really encouraged to take these bold calculated risk and it was, it was that guiding star to say, hey, when we’re, when we’re at a decision point, when we’re trying to figure out what to do, look to that North star and say, is this going to get us closer there? Is it gonna guide us towards that direction? And I think it’s important for an organization or a leader to set the organization’s North Star and to communicate that frequently. So, you know, that cosmic, we were laser focused on helping uh fully fund every nonprofit organization. Um That’s a pretty big bold audacious thing. It’s like being the best disaster response or in the world. And throughout the journey to get there, you’re gonna, you know, you’re gonna have all these decision points and it helps you, I think filter through them.

[00:09:07.47] spk_1:
I like that. The book is filled with examples of basically you, you’re walking your walk, you use a lot of examples from, from cosmic,

[00:10:22.84] spk_2:
yeah, from cosmic, from clients like um honestly, the book is filled with, with just as many lessons that were learned from trying something and it not working. But one of our cultural principles is success is not final and another one is the future belongs to the curious. And I think the combination of those two things are what, what allows an organization to try, try new approaches. But then when something works well to examine it, to look at it, understand why it worked or why it didn’t work and what’s still missing about it and to refine it. And so I try to share examples from our experience um because I’m so goal oriented and sometimes I share with, with Bobby, someone was like my thought partner, my operational partner here at Cosmic, just, just the other day I shared with her was like, gosh, you know, uh I was like, I wish we were growing faster. And she said, Matt, we more than doubled, you know, last year ourselves. And we helped 22 clients double at the same time. Like, let’s take a breath and like, look at what, what worked and what didn’t and what we accomplished. And I think that, that, that, that’s what I tried to include in the book was the stories from those lessons learned. And I hope, I hope it comes through.

[00:10:30.12] spk_1:
It does, it does true to your uh walking your talk. I said you, I said you walk your walk, you walk your talk. True to walking your talk. Uh your North Star. One of them is to fully fund every nonprofit, you know, you do know there’s about a million and a half of them, right?

[00:10:52.72] spk_2:
Yeah, there’s, there’s far too many probably to realistically reach. And I gotta be honest, like we’ve refined that over the years to be those that align with our values. Like I actually, I hope that there’s certain organizations that don’t have access to my book and don’t actually put to use these practices

[00:11:27.25] spk_1:
but you’re scaling back scaling down a little bit. Alright. That’s that’s perfectly reasonable with the universe of a million and a half or more but true to your North Star, you are giving this book away books just go to cosmic dot com slash book and give a name and an address and you’ll ship the book for free.

[00:11:33.51] spk_2:

[00:11:35.22] spk_1:
I’m not gonna ask why you’re doing that because it’s your it’s your North Star. That’s why.

[00:12:11.19] spk_2:
Yeah, exactly. I think um yeah, we give away free strategy calls to and I’m gonna be honest, like a lot of the calls are folks that aren’t necessarily in the right mindset or in the right place to benefit from the approach that we take. But we still want to help them. So we’ve developed a free curriculum. Like we’ve, you know, I just wanted to capture some of the lessons that I’ve learned and so many, I’ve gotten so much free advice over the years, um that I’m so grateful for that. We wanted to put some of those thoughts down on paper and, and share those with books and um yeah, just help people, help people grow and scale and it’s the easiest way to, to distribute our knowledge out there.

[00:12:59.59] spk_1:
You have a chapter on and all your chapters are short this quick. This is a, it’s a quick read but valuable and I mean, it has to be valuable. You get it for free. So it has just infanticidal value and then you have, if it’s just infanticidal value, then you have a positive R O I because cosmic is paying for the shipping. So culture. So one of your, one of the many chapters, culture, culture is the glue. How do we I think folks probably understand why that’s important but how do we create the culture that we want?

[00:16:51.67] spk_2:
Yeah. So um I kind of already shared with you two of our cultural principles that cosmic, right? And I can still remember and recite all seven cultural principles at Team Rubicon. But I’ve also worked at two other places in my career where I actually cannot recite even one of the cultural principles because they were a poster on a wall, right? So when I think about cultural principles, they need to be what guides your team in the absence of your presence. So, just a few years ago when it was myself and Bobby and one full time person here at cosmic uh Franny who still works with us. Um I remember gathering her and saying, sharing with her. There’s gonna be a time when we’re not in the room, you’re gonna be alone in the room and we’re going to make a decision about how we need to move forward. People are going to question that decision and we won’t be there to answer it. And I need you to look to these cultural principles, to guide you and to provide them with context as to why this decision is made. Um so that we can all be aligned and so that we can all move forward together. So I think when you know, to address your question, I think of two parts, one is like, what is the importance, the critical part is that you have, that your team has something that they can fall back on to filter through their actions, their ideas, to understand your decisions, all those things in the absence of your presence, it’s really important how to get there. Um It’s as basic as sitting down and writing down, like, think about yourself. Think about your top performing people on your team, the best people you’ve ever worked with. If you’re just building your team from scratch, what are the characteristics of those folks? What is it that they have in common? Where is their overlap and start to write those things down? Don’t go with these lofty like integrity and things like that’s kind of baseline. I hope that wherever it is that you’re working, right? But go with like what is uniquely you and then you can actually refine them and that’s how we come up with fun stuff like at Team Rubicon. Uh One of my favorite cultural principles was uh your mother is a donor. So when we think about how we’re going to reinvest the money that is given to Team Rubicon to serve folks affected by disaster, think about it as if your mother gave us that money. And that was a really cool right way to frame that up. And so at cosmic, we’ve, we’ve got fun ones to write like sleeves up at Team Rubicon was gets it done. So the you can start to put a fun spin on it and then how you move it into action. Um I found is you repeat it all the time and you call it out all the time. Um Are you familiar with strength Finder, tony It’s, it’s a, it’s a gallop kind of generated thing where you fill out this survey of millions of people filled it out and it kind of identifies what are your top five strengths of all these different strengths, right? And a lot of folks use strength finder, but they’d go to a half day session and then they never talk about it again. And the same is true about cultural principles. They take a day a week, a month to define these cultural principles. They’re passive, they’re on a poster and they’re not ever talked about. And so you have to like when you see sleeves up, when you see success is not final, whatever yours are, you have to call attention to call it out and say, hey Franny, that was amazing. You know, that was a success is not final moment for you. This is thank you. You know, this is what works about it. I think that’s what I would say about cultural principles is define them but, but revisit them often. Um that’s how you’re gonna be able to fully leverage them.

[00:16:58.18] spk_1:
What guides your team in the absence of your presence? I love that.

[00:18:00.50] spk_0:
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[00:18:01.24] spk_1:
about yours. Success is not final. What does that mean to cosmic?

[00:19:25.63] spk_2:
Yeah, to cosmic. It means um we actually do, I learned again, I learned this kind of thing at Team Rubicon. We did this thing called an after action report which is sort of came out of the military culture where we would evaluate, hey, we just responded to hurricane Harvey. What worked? What didn’t, what was missing? What was confusing, right? Um And so what we do here at cosmic and is we actually evaluate like, like literally we did a retrospective on writing this book. Um You know, I think it was a success. I can’t wait to come out with a second volume, but I’m like, okay, what are all the things that need to be, that need fixing? You know, that could be better about how we approach this? Um And there was a ton of them and then how taking the lessons that we learned about the, the editing process, like the outlining process, um the boiling it down to two, like you said, I mean, it was written in a way for to be, to be, you know, kind of digested on a domestic flight. But we, we try to put like the key lessons up front. Well, that actually came out of another project that we worked on where the audience of, of our curriculum said, you know, the just like the lesson learned upfront was really helpful. So it’s taking that success from one thing and applying it to what worked well this time. And also looking back and saying, what didn’t work, what did not go well about that fundraising campaign that we just ran? What, what didn’t go well about that digital transformation that we just did and how do we address that for the next go around so that we can improve upon how we deliver, you know, services to clients and impact to the world.

[00:19:59.77] spk_1:
As you said, each chapter has to takeaways upfront right under the title of the chapter, there’s two shaded boxes that are going to tell you what that chapter is all about.

[00:20:09.22] spk_2:
Yeah, you can skip the chapter if you, if you’re really short on time or not intrigued by what it says or no,

[00:20:53.24] spk_1:
you should, I think you make this point if one doesn’t appeal to you that you should read it all the more to find out what it is that you’re missing about the takeaway that, uh, that you’re not getting, you know, what, what it is you don’t understand about the takeaway that, that makes it, uh, interesting to you. So, read a couple of pages and, and come away enlightened. Yeah. Um, you talk something about, well, actually let’s get a little deeper in your, in your own life that this team Rubicon sounds like it was, I don’t know, transformational for you, you know, so grounding you, you took away a lot from your time at Team Rubicon.

[00:21:15.16] spk_2:
I sure did. Uh the, the opportunity, you know, for, for your more established leaders who are listening to this uh 22 year old Matt was given way too much responsibility.

[00:21:17.65] spk_1:
Military that, that comes, that comes right from your founder. Jake. Military does that 18 year olds are given incredible responsibility right out of right out of high school.

[00:24:28.53] spk_2:
Exactly. If you give people clear direction, commander’s intent, um, as Jake would call it, uh, and, and, and, and, and a sense of connection with one another, a sense of codependency with one another. Um Then, you know, even if you fail, if you’re failing forward, you’re gonna do. Okay. Right. So, uh for me at Team Rubicon, all of the places that I’ve worked, I’ve, you know, have taught me a lot. Um but I learned about, I think the 30,000 ft at team Rubicon, the power of having a really strong uh direction that we’re headed at the horizon level and then how to operationalize it is really critical. So, um I was given the opportunity to, to buy, given the opportunity, I mean, there was a problem and, and someone let me, let me just tackle it right? Um To, to lead 2.5 digital transformations in my seven years, but I had never done that before. Um And so learning a lot from that are developing a mass market fundraising program, building out a fundraising team, um you know, partnering with marketing, all of these different things that uh that were so, so important to who I am today and how I lead today and how I help others lead is because of the lessons that I learned. And I’m gonna be honest, a lot of stuff did not work um at all. And so I’ll share an example that maybe will resonate with folks like one of the things we do and I talk about it in the book is that the strategic planning process is completely broken. At most organizations, right. It takes 3 to 6 months. It cost over $200,000 in staff time and consulting. And usually it, it ends up with this 50 page strategic planning document that nobody reads and is completely in actionable. And a team Rubicon, what we would do is we would actually develop strategic plans every six months. We were putting new ones out there and we would look back and laugh at where we thought we would be. Sometimes we, we thought we were like going to the moon and actually we ended up at Mars or sometimes we overshot, sometimes we fell way short. But the plan was like a good place to deviate from. It was, it was, it was something to guide us, but it was not a desk, a destination, the planning process, you know, um what’s it? Uh I’m gonna mess up which general this was. But one of these famous generals talks about how plan is useless, but the act of planning is really, is really what is really useful because it brings people together and gives people a common understanding. And so a team Rubicon like we would fail all the time at our strategic plans. But, but we were always had a bias for action over a bias for documentation. We always had a bias for getting things done. And um yeah, I’m very grateful for the time that I had there because I don’t think I would be able to support so many organizations today if it weren’t for the opportunity to fail early, um, and succeed early, you know,

[00:24:43.08] spk_1:
G S D getting it done, right. You talk like you were in the military, like operationalized commander’s intent, you know, you, you sound like you were a para marine yourself.

[00:25:01.56] spk_2:
Oh, gosh, I have three, I have three brothers who served in the military. Uh, but I did not have any military jargon or discipline whatsoever before going to team Rubicon. So it’s 100% byproduct of my as my time as a gray shirt and it has nothing to do with uh with uh my level of service stops at the nonprofit sector at Fortune.

[00:25:22.42] spk_1:
Alright. And great shirts of course. Were the team Rubicon volunteers? Right. Exactly. Where the great shirts. Yeah. Alright. So let’s explore a little more of the strategic plan. You, you spend a couple of chapters on it, having an adaptable strategic plan and why don’t, why don’t you bring in another organization? The talk about the uh SFP the Salon to Family Project.

[00:25:47.39] spk_2:

[00:25:48.32] spk_1:
adaptable strategic plan.

[00:29:48.15] spk_2:
Yeah. So what I what I favor is is action over over documentation, right? But documentation is important. So capturing your strategy on a single page, it’s like what are we trying to achieve? What are the key, how are we going to do that? What are the key strategies on how we’re gonna do that? Right. So Salon to Family project. When they first started working with us, they actually pair marginalized Children or women rather so just women who were largely ignored in the community with orphan Children. And they create what they call these forever fan families where they are not just a temporary placement for orphans, but rather a wraparound care service. A long term commitment of family goes well beyond, you know, a kid graduating from high school, say right, you can still call your parents well into life and then you care for one another. Um And so when they were thinking about how to grow and they really needed to grow, we started to identify, okay, well, if we were going to double revenue, how would we go about doing that? What are the key areas we’re going to focus on? So we capture that in a strategic plan and then you essentially look at okay. One of them was going to be, we’re going to really lean into peer to peer fundraising because that was there was an opportunity there for them. And another area was cause marketing and really thinking about how to leverage corporate marketing dollars instead of corporate philanthropic dollars. Most nonprofits go after donations, but those are very limited versus marketing dollars are kind of infinitely scalable. So those were just two of the strategies that made sense. Then we developed all these tactical things. Like if we’re going to focus on fundraisers, we need to have little things like we need a good peer to peer fundraising platform. But more importantly, like, let’s think about donor segmentation or, or supporter segmentation donors, volunteers, fundraisers, advocates within the fundraisers. Like, are these people network mobilizes? Can they get a lot of people to attend the event and donate on their behalf? Um Sharing a ton of context. But my point is that there were all these little ideas like we need to coach people who are passionate about Salaam to but who are not professional fundraisers on how to ask people for money. So a fundraising coaching series made it in there so big ideas, little ideas, they all get added in and we scored those based on impact. How much impact would they have on our ability to double revenue against that key strategy, how with cost, you know, time and money, like a fundraising platform cost money, it takes time and money to draft an email series and build out an engagement flow, right? And so by doing this more action oriented strategic planning process, what we did was we started to develop, uh we were clear on direction and we were clear on how we were gonna get there and we really thought about what should be done first. And um and as a result, the organization was able to, you know, leverage all kinds of cool stuff, a Travelocity grant to film to build brand awareness. Like we built a really big peer to peer program, but also kind of what I was sharing about team Rubicon and cosmic is like our identity shift over time. And what to uh to Marissa the executive director’s credit. She saw an opportunity and actually the connection between family, the forever family in the faith based community in, in the US, the donor base. And that there was a strong connection there that they were, they weren’t really maximizing or taking advantage of because they weren’t directly connecting the two. So that’s that a plan is a good place to deviate from that I was talking about is as you move through the process of growing, you need to success is not final stop and evaluate what’s working, what’s not what’s missing. And she found that opportunity and leaned into it with these frameworks and they’ve been very successful. They’ve, they’ve grown up, they’ve doubled more than more than once. Um So, yeah, just a little bit more about, about Salam to and how they leverage that growth strategy.

[00:30:03.61] spk_1:
Explain about the one page strategic plan, the O P S P, talk about this in the book too.

[00:30:53.97] spk_2:
Yeah, this is, this is like my favorite uh my favorite thing um because it aligns everybody and it’s the simplicity. It’s hard to get down into a single page, right? But, but essentially at the very top, it’s what are we trying to achieve? Okay, let’s say we’re trying to double our revenue. How are we gonna do that? I talked about that already. What are the key strategies? Um okay, then who should we be targeting? Uh like who should be going after? Let’s say one of your key strategies is to, to take an audience led approach, right? So one of our clients is Surfrider. Well, who they’re going after is mass market, major donors, uh you know, certain corporate partners, etcetera. And then what motivates them? Well, they have four programmatic pillars. So that’s really like, what are we talking about? What do they do? They,

[00:31:02.76] spk_1:
what do they do?

[00:32:35.42] spk_2:
Surf rider is a group of a collection of chapters. There’s over 80 across the the country. And what they do is they work collaboratively to put forth legislation to protect beach access, to protect clean water, to reduce plastic pollution and to reverse the impacts of climate change. And why people support surfrider are different. Somebody who’s interested in plastic pollution might not be interested in beach access. Um So what we, what we want to capture on that page is who are we going after? What, what’s the core message? What are the, what are the major drumbeats? What are the times when everybody? So World Water Day super important for them. Um Some of them are planned and some of them are unplanned. So the rainfall that we just experienced in California really damaged coastal communities, but that was an unplanned drumbeat. So the ability to look at this one page strategic plan and say, should we respond to this disaster? Does it align with our, our strategy towards doubling revenue? Um It gives people a filter who are execute Urz and who are operational ist and leaders to look at and, and glance at and say, yeah, we need to lean into this opportunity and it means that we’re gonna have to stop doing these other things um temporarily or otherwise to get there. So, uh yeah, that’s a little bit about what’s captured in the one page strategic plan. It’s sort of the, what are we trying to do and how are we going to do it? And who are we targeting? And where should we focus our efforts?

[00:33:45.99] spk_0:
It’s time for Tony’s take two A week before the 2023 non profit technology conference. And already we’ve got a dozen interviews booked. Who I’ll be talking to conference presenters about. Oh, like data driven storytelling with Julia Campbell, inclusive culture on your board. Oh, using your voice to lead quiet, quitting. Perhaps personalized fundraising at scale. You might see these and lots of other shows are coming up in the months ahead. If you are at the nonprofit technology conference swing by booth for 24, I’ll be there talking to all these future smart guests along with heller consulting our 23 NTC sponsor. Thank you again. Team Heller for sponsoring. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got Boo Koo, but loads more time for the high growth non profit with Matt Scott.

[00:33:55.02] spk_1:
You talk about intentional discoveries,

[00:33:58.21] spk_0:
these sort of internal

[00:33:59.86] spk_1:
interviews that are, that are valuable, explain what that’s all about.

[00:35:50.48] spk_2:
Yeah, for this, I’ll use an example when we were working with Mercy Corps, uh non profit large established organization. Uh They provide humanitarian services across the world in over 100 countries and some of the most difficult places and their fundraising and marketing team is about 65 people. So big department within that, they got lots of senior leaders and we were helping their, their fourth C D M O and four years get the team aligned. So she was relatively new in the seat. And so what we encourage is to do stakeholder interviews with each person. In, in her case, she had within the department, there was about 12 directors just in the department, senior leaders for her. Um and it was about interviewing each of them and figuring out, hey, what’s working, what’s not, what’s confusing, what’s missing, you see that kind of common theme and gathering all this input from your team on the regular revisiting it with them once a year is really effective because it allows you as a leader to do the stakeholder interviews, even though you already work there, you already know who those people are and what they face. Well, chances are by just slowing down, taking a pause and actually having a conversation with your team. You know, if you’re, if you’re truly doubling. If, if you, when you, when you grow revenue by 25%, of your systems will break, that’s been our experience. So by pausing and slowing down and doing interviews with the various stakeholders on your team and understanding what’s working, what’s not, what’s missing, what’s confusing. You can begin to prioritize where your clarity needs to, where you need to provide more clarity where things need to be re prioritized, where, where you need to address problems that are popping up, that are new problems that you weren’t expecting because you just moved to a different phase of growth.

[00:36:12.43] spk_1:
That that’s a whole nother good topic because if you’re experiencing this rapid growth or you’re, you’re in the midst, yeah, you’re in the midst of it. Prioritization is key.

[00:38:06.72] spk_2:
Mhm Yeah. And that’s actually you talked about what is something else I want to talk about in the book. It’s uh something we found really useful is um is Larry Griner is a, is a researcher who years ago, uh you know, wrote an article in HBR about the evolutions and revolutions of organizational growth, growth. And how as you move through the stages of growth, the inevitable crisis, crisis is that come up as you move, the pain that you’re going to experience the solutions that you put in place to address that phase of growth is inevitably going to lead to crisis in the next phase of growth. And so we used to pass out the original article and it was very much written from a for profit lens. But yeah, sorry Harvard Business Review. Yeah. And uh we just received so much positive feedback from, from clients that were taking through our rapid growth program, which is this transformational process um that were like we need to rewrite this for nonprofit specific audience because there’s some uniqueness to that, like it’s particularly resource constrained, you know. So we did that. And it’s one of the chapters in the book, I talk about like the various phases of growth and the five different ones and how as you move through them, you’re gonna inevitably come up with new challenges. But that’s how I think those, those two questions for the two topics we just talked about come together. It’s like by doing those interviews, re checking in with your team frequently as you move through the phases, you’re going to be able to um see more clearly from their lens from their vantage point when things are breaking. And when the solutions that you put in place, when you are moving from an entrepreneurial environment to one where you have decisive leadership is inevitably going to lead towards like a sense of I need autonomy. I’m being told what to do too much, you know. So you have to check in with your team regularly as you move through the phases of growth.

[00:38:18.85] spk_1:
That’s like you had a lot of autonomy at Rubicon.

[00:39:32.20] spk_2:
We, we did until I didn’t. And so it’s funny because Jake is a friend of mine still. And one day we were talking about, you know, we were both sharing with each other. How long do you think you’re gonna stay? Um And uh for me, it was, became so clear, I was like my identity, I am a builder and a doer. I am not a maintainer. And so as soon as my job becomes more and more narrow and it becomes more when to maintain state status as opposed to like what we’ve just gone through for the last seven years. That’s gonna be the moment when I when it’s time for me to uh yeah, to move into the gray shirt as a volunteer as opposed to a staff member role. Um And so yeah, I think that’s that, that was my own experience in my own journey and in evaluating when it was time for, for me to, to kind of move on. But I was given a lot of autonomy and then it started to get rained in, you know, um because it had to, we started have department budgets and processes and, and I was like, yeah, this is necessary and this is not for me. Yeah,

[00:39:43.60] spk_1:
let’s talk a little about hiring, you say higher when it hurts but, but you need to have a couple of things in place before you before you do something that sounds reckless. So what, what, what’s, what’s higher when it hurts.

[00:40:26.97] spk_2:
Yeah, this is some advice that I was given by, uh, now the chief operating officer at a major Humane society, but came from a consulting background when he and I were talking about me building this consulting practice and I thought about it was like, gosh, that is so on point. Even when I’m at a nonprofit, right, you always feel like you want to put more bodies in place, right? Like if we only had more people, we could achieve more. Um And we were talking about it from a, a cash flow perspective. Don’t go hog crazy on hiring too many folks because you don’t wanna have to lay people off if, if you, you know, if it’s a temporary need, you need to evaluate when, when you need to hire. So I’ll share this because I think it’s so valuable for, for folks who’ve made it this far into the, into the podcast episode,

[00:40:41.42] spk_1:
but nonprofit radio listeners are not dropping off. Okay. Good,

[00:40:46.11] spk_2:
good with

[00:40:47.23] spk_1:
us till the end. I’m sure of it. Especially talking about, about high growth.

[00:44:29.39] spk_2:
Okay. So yeah, help us be the best, best selling book in the free book category by making it this far. Um So World Bicycle Relief, I, I share this story. This is one of our clients and uh and they there you really unique because they’re not just a nonprofit, but they’re also a social impact business. So they ask for financial donations, but they also sell a Buffalo bicycle to communities in countries across across the world. And they do this to help provide education and access to health care and jobs. Um And let’s just take in, in certain parts of Africa, like the terrain and the infrastructure in Kenya is really different than that of Colombia, but they operate in both places. And so their marketing team is stretched really thin because they’re not just serving the donor audience, but they’re also trying to serve the various social impact audiences in different countries and produce materials that will help those social businesses and entrepreneurs that they’ve set up in country to sell these bicycles to service these bicycles. And so they’re stretched really thin, right? And naturally you just want to go to, I need a higher. But what we did first with them is we gather their marketing team and we said we want to show you how to think like an internal agency, how to think like a marketing firm internally within your organization. So this tip is something that I think nobody, most nonprofits don’t even think about, don’t say nobody but I haven’t come across any yet. So one of the things we do at at cosmic and this is common practice in any agency or consultancy is you think about your time as billable and non billable and billable time is essentially time that we spend building to clients but as an internal agency, it’s things like writing coffee, uh building out workflows, um merging contact records, whatever all these different things. Non billable time is not bad time. It’s things like professional development, it’s things like paid time off, it’s admin time going to staff meetings, getting a line, things like that. And so what we told we we shared is like you need to actually evaluate where all of the time is being spent as an internal stakeholder and determine your billable time divided by your total time gives you what’s called a utilization ratio. And so at cosmic, you know, our team of 16 Served 28 clients last year. And we have, we have currently over 65 work streams going on that are across all these different clients. And how in the world does that few of people do that much work? And the reality is we are very meticulous about understanding how much time it takes to do. Uh If we get asked to create an annual report or build a landing page or build a workflow, we need to understand how much time it takes for the project manager, the content strategist, copyright of the designer, right? And so we taught this to world Bicycle Relief’s marketing team to actually keep track of your time and to set targets for billable versus non billable. And what they found was where they were spending time and where they weren’t spending time. And then when they got request from the major gift officer for a one off, uh, you know, uh, one pager, they were able to evaluate how much time that was going to take and the impact that it was going to have and they could then prioritize their work through their backlog in a way that they had never thought to do before. So that’s an example of like going back to higher when it hurts. Chances are it hurts right? You’re stretched, then there’s more to do than time to do it before hiring, stop and take stock of where you’re actually spending time and what can go and what needs to stay. And only when it really is like your team is running hot and consistently running hot. And if you look ahead and you’re saying, gosh, we’re having to turn down high impact work because we don’t have the capacity to do it. That’s when you should hire. But you don’t really know that unless you’re actually keeping track of your time,

[00:45:02.59] spk_1:
did you think of something that you want to talk about? That? We haven’t yet.

[00:45:07.27] spk_2:
Yeah, something else I would like to share. Uh

[00:45:10.25] spk_1:
Alright, success. The only author I can, the only author I can remember who doesn’t know what he doesn’t have more to share their overwhelmed because there’s so much value in the book you don’t know what to choose from.

[00:45:49.76] spk_2:
Oh, that’s, that’s kind I, yes. Well, I, I will share, I’m very grateful to, to be on, on your show again. And the work that you’re doing to support the community, I think we’re aligned there. You know, you’re giving away this podcast constantly for free. And I know how much work it is to produce content. So I uh I appreciate you having us on and I really hope that people find this book to be useful. And I guess I would share, please provide feedback because success is not final. And if there’s elements in the book that you’re like, that didn’t land or we wanted more of this, um That’s the only way we know, right? Like what episodes you should, you should make a nonprofit radio or, or what chapters should make it into the next book.

[00:46:30.92] spk_1:
Alright. Alright. Challenge. The listener’s, you’re getting it for free, so give feedback. I’m not ready. I’m not ready to end yet though. There’s a couple of things that we still want to talk about. We um you talk about a rapid growth plan and there are three parts of it. We’ve talked about the first two, we talked about the one page strategic plan. Uh You talked about your, the project backlog, right? Which becomes these, these ideas to execute the one page strategic plan. That’s your does your projects and impact versus as you, as you described, just reminding folks impact versus resources that need to be allocated to that.

[00:48:09.36] spk_2:
Yep. And then the third, the third part the third part is, well, a plan is great and prioritization is great, but we have to measure how effective this thing is, right? So we develop a simple KPI tracker, key performance indicator tracker to measure the success of the plan. And so I’ll just use an example what might show up on a KPI tracker. So let’s say, let’s say you’re your donor base is aging and your file strength, your retention rate is good, but folks are getting older and so you need to acquire more new donors, right? Um Okay, how are you going to do that? Let’s say you turn towards maths market fundraising audience to get there. Uh There’s two things you need to do. One, you need to think about your plan giving approach and two you need to think about because that’s where the strength of your file is and to you got to acquire new supporters. So what KPI S matter? Well, we find with online giving that it comes down to website traffic conversion rate and average gift amount. If you can get more people to your website and more of those people give and they give more money, then you’re gonna raise a lot more money online right? Then when you think about, okay, well, what’s that retention rate look like? How many of our supporters are moving from one time to monthly? Um What’s that upgrade look like? And retention rate looks like? Um So those are all these KPI. So for when you go back to the one Patriot eg plan, you think about, well, what were our house, maybe one of your houses? We’re gonna build a robust legacy giving program. Which, which tony I know, you know more about than I do. So I don’t, what do you think are the KPI S that people should measure when they’re thinking about building out Planned Giving program?

[00:49:10.00] spk_1:
Oh, well, first of all, you’re not going to acquire new donors through planned giving, but some of the, some of the key metrics, uh how many conversations you’ve opened about, about the topic, how many solicitations you’ve actually gotten to um might be just how many meetings you’ve had around this topic, which is different than the conversation. You know, you may not have quite opened the conversation but you had a meeting to, to suss out the possibility. So, you know, those are so there’s three like number of meetings, number of conversations opened, number of solicitations made, of course, number of commitments. Yeah, donors are willing to make. So there’s, there’s four early

[00:50:50.10] spk_2:
ones. Yeah, exactly. And so the, the KPI has to match up to whatever your strategy is and it basically needs to, it needs to be I think of KPI S as both leading, there’s leading indicators and then there’s trailing indicators. So the leading indicators you described are like how many conversations, you know, we’re open. Uh meetings have, would be a very early leading indicator. And then how many, you know, conversation now you’re starting to get a little bit further, the trailing indicators. Um You know, you start to evaluate at different phases. Like are we gonna hit our goal? Is this strategy working or is it not working? Does it need to be adjusted? So the idea is that together those three things and by the way, throughout the book, I hope it becomes clear, but I’ll just share my own personal experiences when in doubt, make it as simple as possible. Create KPI S. They’re easily trackable that you don’t have to spend a lot of time going into a lot of different systems. Get this data. You want to be thinking about how do I make this as easy as possible? I don’t need to spend any time describing what it means when we say website traffic or conversion rate or average gift amount. We don’t have to describe what it means, like number of laps donors or whatever. Um And you just want to have your system set up so that your KPI dashboard you can regularly look at and not have to spend a lot of time building out. People think like, oh, data driven and you know, people, people want want a Ferrari when what they need is a Kia, you know, and they don’t even have a pit crew to like help them racist formula one car around the track, like find the Kia. Find the Kia that’s, that’s, I guess my metaphor advice on that,

[00:51:12.56] spk_1:
that’s the rapid growth plan and, and the one I do want to close on know your strength, that I know your strength chapter. Do you know your strength?

[00:53:47.17] spk_2:
Yeah, I think that this, this rings true both on an individual and an organizational level, right? Um And where is it that, that you are uniquely positioned to drive impact like nobody else can. Um I mean, you know, how, how it is, I think about like organizations that come to us and they think they’re the only ones solving the water crisis. You’re like, actually there’s a lot of people doing exactly what you’re doing. Um And I think it’s, I think it’s just really important to have a clear idea of, you know, what problem are we uniquely positioned to solve in a way that is unique to our culture? So I’ll use, I’ll go back to team Rubicon as an example to drive this home because we talked a lot about it. Um When you think about disaster response, there is response, the immediate response. Uh Well, there, there’s, there’s like preparedness, you know, readiness is the community ready for disaster. Then there’s the actual like response to the disaster and then there’s a long term recovery, right? And Team Rubicon, when we first got started, our strength was really in the response because we were able to pull from the military culture to very quickly respond. We didn’t have a lot of bureaucracy. We didn’t have a lot of red tape. Um, but it was really challenging to get into the recovery business in the early days by business. I just mean, the business of serving folks affected by disaster, not making money on recovery, but like, you know, that’s a different, that was a different organizations strength. That’s a different skill set to be able to build out rebuild communities affected by disaster re roof homes. And all that team Rubicon really didn’t get involved in that for a really long time in their trajectory. And it wasn’t until they had clearly uh they had leaned into their strengths on the response side and they had really figured out what worked and then they thought, okay, how, what worked in there that could work with, with how we would go about the recovery and how does that compare to someone like the Red Cross and how they approach the rebuild effort? Um So knowing your strengths and knowing your sector is super important. It’s like, what do you, what’s that North Star? What are you trying to achieve? What’s your cultural principles? What, what makes you uniquely good at what you do and lean into that relentlessly and stay focused on that and don’t try to become the latest thing in every category. Um I guess is what I would say at a, at a high level. Um Is there something that stood out to you in that chapter. Tony that I didn’t talk about their,

[00:54:16.97] spk_1:
no just identifying and leveraging what you’re strong at instead of trying to go broader. You know, some people and some organizations may try to improve weaknesses rather than double down on their strengths.

[00:55:24.82] spk_2:
Yeah, people do this all the time, right? Like that’s a good point. I’ll share one more thing and I know like more and more and more. I am really comfortable with the visionary role. Like I love starting things. I don’t particularly enjoy finishing them nor does my team like it when I tried to finish things because I’m not very good at that. It’s really hard for me. It’s a hard muscle to kind of push through. But I have like found Bobby, my operational partner. She’s the magic at 10,000 ft. She connects the executioners with the 30,000 ft vision and makes project plans and makes sense of things and loves finishing projects, not starting them. So knowing your individual strength as a leader to and figuring out like, am I more comfortable in futuristic vision planning? Um or am I more comfortable in operational izing things and figuring out what you need as an operational partner? Because really nobody has it all like you just don’t and you might be able to flex when you absolutely have to. But your best flex is going to be their worst, just standard operating procedure because that’s their strength right. So I found that we’ve been able to grow a lot faster in clients to like we, we work with a lot of clients that are C E O s that don’t have operational partners or sometimes they get in the way. And it’s like knowing when you should stop and when you’re, when the operational ist should pick up is really an important thing to distinguish

[00:55:57.57] spk_1:
Matt Scott. The book is the high growth non profit Proven steps to quickly double your revenue and drive impact. It’s at cosmic which is cause C A U

[00:56:00.65] spk_0:
S E M I C cosmic

[00:56:09.47] spk_1:
dot com slash book and it is free to you, including the shipping, shipping, shipping is covered. Matt. Thank you very much. Thank congratulations again on the book. Thank you for sharing your thinking.

[00:56:17.16] spk_2:
Yeah. Thank you, Tony. I really appreciate

[00:56:19.24] spk_1:
you. My pleasure.

[00:57:09.85] spk_0:
Next week, I’ll bring the 1st 23 NTC interview and they’re all gonna be excellent. I’ll just pick one. That’s extra excellent. Yeah, extra excellent. Exactly. Next week’s show is gonna be extra excellent. Just like I said, if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. We are sponsored by donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor box dot org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows. Social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy And this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that information, Scotty B with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. Go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for May 3, 2019: Reducing Donor Abandonment & Welcome Your Donors The Right Way

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Matt Scott & David DeParolesa: Reducing Donor Abandonment
From Amazon to Zappos, there’s a lot you can learn from e-retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online gifts. Our 19NTC panel, Matt Scott and David DeParolesa, reveal proven e-commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from CauseMic and David is at Give Lively.

Brenna Holmes & Chrissy Hyre: Welcome Your Donors The Right Way
Your donors now complete their online gifts at record rates. Have you got in place a multichannel welcome and nurture series to receive and steward your new donors? Our panel will get you started. They’re Brenna Holmes with CCAH and Chrissy Hyre from Innovation. (Also recorded at 19NTC)

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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d grow on Odo polyp ous if I heard that you missed today’s show. Reducing donors Abandonment From Amazon to Zappos There’s a lot you can learn from e retailers to keep your donors in the checkout stream as they make their online GIF ts Our nineteen anti seat panel Matt Scott and David de Para Lisa reveal proven e commerce strategies to increase online gift completion. Matt is from cause *** and David is at Give lively and welcome your donors the right way. Your donors now complete their online GIF ts at record rates. Have you got an in? Have you got in place? A multi-channel welcome and nurture Siri’s to receive and steward these new donors. Our panel will get you started. They’re brenholz is with C ch and Chrissy hyre from innovation that’s also recorded at nineteen and TC. I’m Tony Steak to be the one we’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dad, I’m a slash pursuing by weather CPAs guiding you beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine Here is reducing donor Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen ninety si. You know what that is? It’s a non-profit technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This interview, like all are nineteen ntcdinosaur views is brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact. My guests now are Matt Scott sitting closest to me. He’s CEO of Cosmic and David De Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively Welcome Welcome mat. Welcome, David. Thank you. Thanks, Tony. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you on DH mascot. Welcome back to non-profit Radio. Thank you. It’s good to be back. All right. Your topic here today is reducing donor. What’s a copy from e retailers? David, why don’t you get us started? What? Give us the Give us the headline in the lead. Sure. So this session is intended to help non-profits think about the full life cycle of thie experience of making a donation and all of the elements that could result in someone dropping off from completing a donation way. Want to, you know, bring in expertise from the consumer world. The world that most everyone lives in on apply it to this non-profit space. Okay. And just so in case there’s any question want you define abandonment for us. So someone starts a starts to donate two or starts thie intent, or has the intent to donate to your cause and then leaves in the middle of it. Right? Okay. Yeah. Okay, Matt, anything you want to add to the overview of our session? Yeah. I mean, I think when we’ve had a lot of conversations, one of the thing that I really enjoy about David’s perspective is you No way. Think about Amazon. One click check out. Right. We think about Netflix in terms of, you know, the user experience that we’re all used. Teo and I think that if we can copy some of those things and move them over to the non-profit space, we’re going to be a head as an industry. But if we’re thinking on ly about competing against other non-profits from a donor experience, we’re going to find ourselves in a lot of trouble because you’re starting setting the bar too low. You’re setting Well, yeah, you’re absolutely setting the bar too low, because we, as consumers, are also the people who are donating to charities, right? And if our expectation is for it to be a seamless process to collect a little information as possible to have unique, engaging content delivered to us if we’re not thinking like that as a nonprofit organization, we’re missing out on consumer behavior, which are the e retailers, that you want us to learn from that really broad base. So you know, we’re inspired by Amazon Zappos to some degree you thie experience at an Apple store, which, you know, in a way, is a kind of hybrid retail experience and generally taking best practices from that space broadly, even if it is in a specific retailer, it’s It’s some of the elements of what makes Annie retail experience common. For example, a simple donation, a simple check out flow a a checkup, though that doesn’t ask many questions but lets you get through it as fast as possible. A one click check out a digital wallet capability, the’s air, things that have worked for the for-profit sector and non-profit sector is catching up and we hope to help them get there. Yeah, why? What’s the What’s the problem? Why so slow? I mean, we’re all experiencing these things on the e commerce side. Why were we not recognizing that? Uh, the analogy between our our donors and ourselves as consumers? What’s the disconnect? I would say that there’s an access issue. There’s an access to technology that brings the retail style practices to the non-profit. Sectarian give Lively is a response to that problem, which is looking at the world of non-profit tech and seeing that elements like digital wallets are not common, that something that isn’t available in the A lot of other platforms but that is available on the give lively platform. So it’s those types of things that have kept non-profits behind. I mean, unfortunately, platforms or not innovating as fast as they can. And they’re not innovating with the consumer mindset that that us in just a few other players are. Okay. All right, so I started to add to that one of the things that I think is really interesting working with established non-profits, You know, you you look at these behemoths and they are their worst own worst enemy When it comes to technology, you look at the younger, more rapidly growing organizations, and those are the ones that are really out there able to adopt new technologies quickly. They’re not constrained by existing say, CR M systems or their, you know, existing, you know, ways of doing things. And and when you when you take a tool like give lively and you put it out there and you integrate with the C R m like sales force, you unlock that potential. And I’ve seen it time and time again, where established non-profits in particular they are their own biggest hurdle when it comes to getting getting in line with e commerce. Best practice? No. All right, all right. So why don’t you kick us off, Matt? What? Uh, let’s get kicked off with what we should what we should be learning. Where do we start? Yeah, I mean, I think David brought up a lot of really good points in terms of Amazon, and you’ve got, you know, a donor experience. But then what I’m really interested in and I think where we complement one another is on the content side. And so I like to always start with you know who is your target audience? What is the unique user experience that that person or persons wants tohave with your brand? And how can you make sure from the moment that they interact with your brand and are brought to your page to your checkout form that they understand you’re unique market position? And so I think that that’s really important to have a singular content strategy that’s very user focused. And, uh, if it’s okay handing it over to David because I feel like that’s where he picks up in terms of the e commerce checkout process and where that’s really critical in terms of the transition from content to check out. OK, yeah, I noticed matter-ness were on Mike, you’re more deferential than, uh Well, then all this *** that you were giving me before before. Before I turn the mike on, why don’t we talk about monthly giving, for God’s sake? But all of a sudden, my cousin, he’s like, uh, if you don’t mind, I’d like to pass it over to David. Very interesting. There can only be one New York around like you’re dominating. Yeah, you multiple turned. You know, talk about talk about best. I’m gonna start the guest personas start start creating that that is surrounded by New Yorkers right now. Yeah. You know, you’re only here. He’s being into forced deference. A submission sametz Alright, yes. Well, I’ll take your suggestion. The matter very politely requested It’s time for a break Pursuing the art of first impressions how to combine strategy analytics and creative to captivate new donors and keep them coming back. That’s their e book on donor acquisition and had to make a smashing first impression with your potential donors. You will find it on the listener landing page at Tony that I may slash pursuing capital P for please. Now back to reducing donor-centric. Share your expertise. You did tick off a bunch of things. I wallet went one click, check out seamless, but we got we got a lot more time together that way. Gotta go into some detail. Yeah, and so you know, at first I think it be helpful too. Acknowledge what Matt mentioned in terms of thinking about storm the content, right? And the thing that keys in for me there is thinking about how the experience starts at the level of the ask and then the level of the intent of the donor. So to reduce abandonment, you want to get the right person to the checkout flow, right? So you want to start with the right people who respond to that message. And so you know what that’s doing It cosmic is creating messages that resonate at a very granular level with different constituencies in such a way that when they get to the checkout flow, they finished the check out great. And I think that okay, that thread is a thread that involves technology because it’s not only the channels in which that message is being sent, but then it’s how that story is represented on the donation page and through the check outflow and even after the checkout float. Okay, we’LL come back to that. I understand ITT’s all of spectrum. Yes. Ah, movement a process, Matt. What? The different how we identify the different constituencies for these granular messages. Yeah, No, you’re you’re getting at is like, what are the technical steps that need to be put in place? So let’s just take acquisition is a great example, right? So you’re you’re going to post up a variety of ads like paid social. And if you set up separate landing pages with separate checkout forms, that’s one way of identifying. You know, this ad directly relates to this check out page, and there is a continuum of content once you arrive there at that page and you know they arrived from there because you’ve set up different ones. The content can then be dynamic essentially for that constituents. And that’s where David talks a lot about stealing your thunder here. But you know, you you have you have that check out for him. That’s asking for his little information as possible. So capturing that email address in that zip code and getting right into the payment and and you’re getting right down to the nitty gritty then you’re worrying about Okay, now that I’ve already got this information, what additional information do I need to provide? But I’ve already processed the donation. That’s right, Yeah, So it’s thinking about what is Germaine to the donation experience as the only things that you should be asking a donor before the payment is actually made. You want to capture the dollars, so every affair to say, like with his few distractions, is possible. There’s no need to have AH on issue video on your or issue photos on your on your checkout page for donation. The person has already moved by your issues. Well, it depends in their different ways that that can be implemented. One way would be to have a page that’s both telling the story and allows you to make that seamless donation in the same view. Okay, and there’s some that do the jump, right? So there’s a storytelling page, and then you jumped to a donation form that’s on a different page, and I’ve seen it done both ways and, you know, way See it work both ways really depends heavily, though, upon how they get there, right? Like if they’re coming to your they’re experiencing your brand for the first time, where they haven’t, you know they need to be informed, right? And so another best practice is having called toe actions throughout your page. Right? So you’re not just one. So you’ve got big, strong, powerful image or something that draws that user in from a content perspective in a high c t es of donations and I think Sita Way got drug in jail on non-profit radio. A cz a previous guest Disappointed you didn’t know that lock myself away is a call to action, right? And to that point, I mean, I think that’s that’s another best practices. Give lively donation check out form can be embedded into your existing site so you can have this microsite like, let’s say, taken unbound page right. And you know that you’ve set up this unique page and you’ve got the both the story there and the narrative there, and then you’ve got a call to actions throughout the page. That’s best practice, because as they move down the content, there’s lots of opportunities to make that contribution. Okay, what’s an unbound page they’re not paying me to talk about on? I’m just kidding. Way were, It’s a wonder. Anything anyone think it’s a tool. You keep this up, I’m shutting your Michael Fair Fair. It’s a it’s a landing page tool that is really easy to use in turn end of setting up unique content on DH. Then you Khun, track that you know someone lands on that page and you contract that they came into your database specific to that content. Okay. Okay. So this is we’re getting to our segmentation of constituencies. Okay, Okay. All right. So now let’s go back to David. What more can you say about place? Things you need to have in place? Sure. So you know one thing that this let’s start at the very kind of high level, which is that a donation form should work if you’re going to reduce it. Abandonment of your donation form one. Someone’s in it. It better work on a mobile device, but it’s kind of a simple statement, but we’ve got to be passed out by now. I mean, everything should be mobile, but that’s not a body. But that’s not always the case. And they’re still donation forms out there that are asking for. I like to joke. It’s there asking for everything but your blood type. You know, it’s a it’s a twenty eighty step form that. Then at the end, you have a credit card entry field. Maybe, and maybe there’s an error in that process. Just over what kind of stuff? They all asking. But I don’t dare ask me. Study this So they’re asking for. You often will see full mailing address, even if that person has no is a digital savvy your digital only person. They’LL ask questions about, perhaps, how they got to our learned about the cause, which is a good question asked. But maybe not before the dollar is captured and can be inferred by some of the tracking that’s occurring. That brought them to the patient was That’s right, pages, etcetera. Okay, um, you know there are even in how the payment information is presented is an element that can be very confusing. So for some donation forms, they make you type or choose whether it’s a Visa card instead of just detecting. Yeah, why did he do that? I know it. And I can tell by the first digit they could tell that the battery ditches first for Justin. It’s welcome. And that’s not even that’s not unique to non-profits Know that. Was there e commerce mary-jo just to say that? I said, That’s laziness on behalf of those building those forms, okay, or that’s lack of capacity. Shoes is a diner’s club or MasterCard or visa or markets. It’s laziness. I mean, it’s easy to detect. It should be present on every single page is interesting. All right. So I don’t know if listeners were interested, but I am well, but it’s, you know, but the channel there are there’s data that shows that every, you know, hub spot ran a study and show that when you increase the amount of fields that you ask a person to complete, you end up over about two to three fields total. You get a fifty percent drop off. Oh, so it’s that high so And once you get to eight, which is many of what he’s talking about, right, you’re down to its well under single digits of conversion rate, which is a dismal. If you think about like you have a really strong contents from the person was into it, they made their way to your donation return until you ask them for their blood type. Yeah, I I also will say one of my pet peeves that, you know, non-profits continuously asked people for the same information over and over and over and over again. Right? So you know who this constituent is? You’ve sent them this email communication. You already know who they are there in your database, and you ask them to re identify all that information again. For what? Like why? You know, when you go to Netflix and you have your subscription to Netflix, they’re not asking you. Or if you’re in Dollar Shave Club and you decide to get shaving cream on top of your razor, no one’s asking you. By the way, could you tell us like what you’re you are in? Yeah. Like right? No, we know. Okay, save it and stop asking for repetition. All right? Yeah. Consolidate. I mean, consolidate fields as much as possible. Don’t ask for the same inspiration twice. What’s essential? I mean, I’m all right, so I’m thinking of the quintessential, you know, the Amazon checkout. It’s been so long since I did. My first time was on a purchase like everybody else. I obviously can’t remember that, but what? What, What? What, what? What’s actually essential. So I mean so in my view and the view that informed to give lively donation platform when we first launched it, it was nothing more than identifying information about that donor. First name last. Actually, in the very early days, not even first name and last name email address, payment information. That was it. You know, now there’s a little bit more in terms of full name, just enough to make sure that we’re doing receding the right way and all of the all of the tax deductible benefits, by the way. So payment information that includes the billing address You have to have the billing and not include Okay, so rate. So let’s get really specific. So it’s It is literally first name, last name, email address and credit card information, meaning nothing more than the number, the expiration date and the CVC code so you can process the donation without without telling you that’s not required. That’s right. And, uh, you know, one of our favorite partners that cosmic is another organization called touchpoint, which is amazing. You give them just too little little tip bits of information like about Tony. We’d find out what kind of bagel heeds you know on Wednesday because they can pull back all that information for for only thirty cents per constituent and give you everything about them. What property they own, what, what non-profits They give to their address everything, and so that’s One of the reasons why we like to give lively platform is you can take as little information as possible, get that donation and then just pay thirty cents. Because if you have drop off, that goes, you know, down fifty percent. When you’ve asked more than three questions, why not ask just as few questions as possible and go pay thirty cents for that information somewhere else? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you cannot go, and that’s getting into very sophisticated strategies in terms of augmenting date. Instead of asking for things up front, find other ways to get at it. You know, there are social networks that have advertising networks that have ways to link. For example, email address is back, too. Uh, that social, so that you don’t necessarily need to ask them. So then you learn more about that donor to those networks through your own work, rather than asking and risking the abandonment. That’s right, just the frustration do of it. Okay, um, go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say I think David should speak a little bit about, you know, the digital wallets, and that’s that is absolutely game changing when it comes to best practice. So take it from here. Thanks. So and we’LL get a mascot non-profit radio things there latto longest running part kapin most listen to podcasts. It’s also in order Mobile off deferential and generous welchlin the mike is on. Yeah, yeah, B b cut. Well, good to have Tony back on the show. I just like so we, you know, hear Give life. So that another session, actually that that I’m leading called digital while it’s so hot right now and in that session will talk about digital wallets. The concept. I mean, digital arts have been around for a long time, but in examples of them are PayPal. Apple pay, Google pay the’s are one click payment options that have in them a variety of security protections and data that gets easily shared without having to ask that door faster. Just talking about All right, so there’s no entry. What? You’ve entered a credit card once you’ve entered your address once, and you’re just using it over and over again in in this example of donation form on. They’re incredibly powerful, and they are people use them. The level of, you know, penetration of mobile wallets. is increasing increasing at all age groups, but particularly with younger foe. But in non-profits well, very few have actually have ever had access to it. So our platform has digital wall So you’LL see See it in. For example, If you go to malala dot org’s that’s one of our partners right on their home page You’LL see if you have a wallet on apple pear Groupe browser that you’re on you’LL see those buttons right there and you can make that donation very quickly If you’re on your phone, you’LL see it there. But most other platforms are not offering that service or they’re just now offering that service eso And but this is a service that we’re used to write. So think about buying a cup of coffee at a on using square and tapping with apple pay. You’re not. I also think like it would be it would be troubling if we didn’t at least mention this best practice for me. Commerce, which is the classic upsell, right? So I think one of the areas that I’ve seen the wall it works so well is when you’ve got you’ve got a recurring donorsearch, right, you’ve got this person who’s a member of your tribe, right? And one of our client team, Rubicon, stands out. Our mercy corps stands out where you have these sustaining donors who give monthly right. Then you have this urgent appeal that comes up. And because you have a really robots content strategy and your quantifying the impact of their recurring gift, you send them a text message that is a simple is them putting their thumbprint on to authorize an additional one time contribution for a wildfire in, you know, Northern California or whatever. It is incredibly effective for up selling for those who are on a subscription model a CZ. Well, as you know, you attend an event or whatever it is, it’s an easy way to take that best practice for me. Commerce, which is your existing customers, are your best potential you know, customers for for an additional service. Yeah, yeah, and those you know, those buttons should be front and center. So no ineffective donation form to reduce abandonment shows you easy ways to pay up front and suggests the best way to pay right on, right on that first screen. So, you know, looking at a donation from that works. Well, is one that may say you’re making a twenty five dollar donation monthly. Tap this one button and you’re done. You’re you’ve not even moved beyond that first page. You’ve really not even asked any additional questions of the user because the answer’s air embedded inside of a digital wallet payment s o very low friction. Easy to make donations much more secure. One of the objections of her, uh, from’s arounds streamlining like we’re talking about is the preservation of credit credit card information. Because then that then you’re implicated with Peace PCL complaining PC exactly that So that an acronym fell? No, not when I do it. Ok, ok. Thank you. Thank you. It’s personal. Personal credit information watching your mike is going down. It’s already been slowed down. You hear yourself? But no one else will. Yeah, I notice you’re only asking David questions. You know, I don’t not only get to speak. He says, Can I say something? I, uh, thought I should mention here is because Tony is not going to ask me. All right, so now you’re now you’re in your you’re implicating PC I compliance requirements, But if you’re accepting, you use digital wallets, you’re not. You’re not personally. You think the organization is not preserving the the information right? It’s the I don’t know what it’s called the host of the host of the wallet. Yeah, exactly what they were getting into the payment process. Non-profit. The payment process apparently doesn’t have to save the Yeah, I mean, I hope. And if I I hope no one listening to this who’s who is working for a nonprofit is ever dealing directly with PC high compliance like they should be using a vendor who is shielding them from that level of risk because that’s incredibly risky and a lot of a bureaucratic burden in order to get PC I compliant. So the payment processors under the give lively platform are stripe papal. Those air both PC I complaint writers in the case and in all cases platform like you’ve lively, never has access to a person’s donor-centric our information directly and through a wallet. What’s really smart about wallets is how they hide. Even they create one time use credit card numbers. Essentially, that’s an easy way to think about it. One time use numbers that he used every time you make a purchase so that there’s no one number goes down or gets, you know, used inappropriately, and it’s not affecting any other element of your credit history. So it’s secure on hidden from both the payment provider themselves as well as a platform for writer. No, certainly the non-profit. Okay, man, I’m gonna give you a break, actually, and I feel bad. I don’t really feel bad, but I’ll say I feel bad about the way I’ve treated you. So I’m going to give you the going to give you the wrap up because we just have, like, a twenty or thirty seconds or so let you clue how generous cosmic from clolery Thank you. Uh, I would say for any non profit organization who is out there, think about to yourself. What is the experience that you did? You really just turn? No. Okay. So paranoid. I don’t take my word for it, I guess. Think about the experience that you have with the brands that you love and think about how you feel when you’re asked lots of questions that are unnecessary and and try and channel that when you’re setting up your your donation form or when you’re selecting your vendor toe work with to process your donations because it’s that that’s the standard. The standard is not other non-profits. The standard is not your system that you’ve been using for three decades, and it works because it’s what we always used. The standard is how we interact with brands on a daily basis and how we spend our money on a daily basis, and it’s really important to think about that. Those brands have raised the bar your donors are experiencing that that high level of, of, of, of purchase flood. He’s he’s thank you, and they’re coming to expect it from you. That’s right, Yeah, Unless unless they abandon the process, that’s right and, you know, and then give Lively’s case, just plug us for a second. You know, we don’t charge money for our for access to our platform, so we’re enabling non-profits use digital wallet type technology and have that access and not have to pay for it. And I think that’s something unique, and I hope people take advantage of that. All right. It was shameless self promotion, but allowed with bilich thinking, I feel like I’m with the two Smart through smart promoter from cookies. Permit me to say Young Young Seo’s fifty six. I can’t say that. Alright on DH They are Matt Scott’s Yo of Cosmic and David de Para Lisa, CEO of Give Lively, and this is Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen ntcdinosaur non-profit Technology Conference This interview Like all our nineteen ninety seon reviews brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. We need to take a break. Wagner, CPS. They’re free. Webinar came and went. It was tips and tricks for your nine. Ninety. You missed it. No problem. Watch the archive. Yes, the archive learned how to use your nine ninety as a marketing tool. The thing is so widely available from GuideStar Charity Navigator Attorneys general, Probably your own website. Let the nine ninety promote your work. That’s what the webinar helps you with. Wagner cps dot com Quick seminars, Then go to April. Now, time for Tony’s Take two be the one. This was inspired by a re union that I attended and had a hand in Ah of Air Force of former Air Force missile ears. We were all working in the Reagan years on Minuteman. Two nuclear missiles were all missile operators at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, and we got together way left there in the late eighties. We’ve been together a couple times, but only eyes our third time. So ah, lot of people haven’t been seen for years, and some even never even came to their other reunions. But the idea of everyone coming together, um, sharing old stories coming together like like it had been just a week. And for some, it’s been thirty years since we’ve seen them, but that common bond. So I encourage youto get people together from the different phases of your life, whether it’s elementary school, high school, college, whatever. Grad school, military neighborhood. If you’ve got ah, if you’ve got this, I don’t know. Affinity group sounds kind of formal, but if you’ve got these group of people, these folks who know each other and shared something, it’s such fun to get them together. It’s rewarding. It’s gratifying. It’s just it feels like being a kid again. Do it, do it. That’s what the video is about and you’LL find that video at tony martignetti dot com That is Tony’s Take two Now that a hundred percent of your donors complete their online gif ts u want to welcome them the right way? Here’s that from twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of nineteen NTC non-profit Technology conference coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon. This nineteen ninety si interview, like all of ours, is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits make an impact with me are brenholz homes and Chrissy hyre. They’re both with Chapman, cubine and Husi. Brenna, seated next to me is vice president for digital services and Chrissy is vice president Innovation Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back to each of you. You, you and Brenna has disclosed that thes these interviews have a secondary purpose for her. Chrissy, I’m sorry. Kinda married. That’s not Christy. Christy has disclosed there’s they have a dating. They have dating power. They do so definitely. Come on the show. Yeah, because your your dates will google you. They will find your non-profit radio interview. Yeah, and when they do that? I want you to inquire about the host. I’m really not interested in what they thought of your performance, What they think about the host and then let me know if it’s positive on Lee was not positive. It’s not positive. Silence is best. Just carry on with your date after that ostomel of that. That’s it. But we’re not talking about dating. We’re talking about making them well, we are actually making love you. Yeah, welcoming donors the right way is your your session topic. Um so, Chrissy, what a zoho overview. What are non-profits not getting quite right about welcoming? Let’s start with first time donors and will evolve in the conversation from there. But what we’re not doing quite right. Yeah, So I mean, you know, Brenna says this really Well, actually, but you really only get one chance to make a first impression. And so one of the things that a lot of organizations don’t do particularly well is showing folks exactly how much they care about the gift that folks are giving to them. And so, you know, one of the things that we really focused on our session today was thinking through. What are the ways that you connect people back to your mission back to the work that you’re doing, making them really understand the impact of the gift that they’ve just given and building that connection in that relationship so that they’re ready to take that to the next level, so to speak and give you another gift? Okay, on Brenda, how do we get started thinking about this process that we have for for donors? Yeah, think about everything from multi-channel perspective very much, not just the channel they gave the gift in, but really talking to them in multitude of ways. Because, as you know, everybody’s over saturated in lots and lots of media on DH non-profits have to do more and more to stay top of mind, get keep that good feeling moving forward to maintain that share of wallet as well. So the first thing that you start with, like especially for online donors, very appropriate here for Auntie Si is making sure that you’re customizing the confirmation page and the auto respond or email to that donation. A lot of it is just like the default setting. Non-profits never remembered a change on just updating that can go very long way customizing the confirmation page and the acknowledgement letter that yeah latto respondent your mail going a little bit further and adding direct mail into the mix by sending your online donors direct mail. Acknowledgement letter goes even more like We love that wonderful. Now I did have a panel just maybe an hour or so ago. I want half ago. That said, you know you want to keep your donation process streamlined, Ask a few questions possible now, in order to get the the direct mail address. That’s going to be another level of questions you have to ask. Well, no, You mean you pretty much can’t make a credit card donation without putting in the billing address anyways, so it’s already part of the foreign fields to process again. OK, well, not according to those two guys. I guess it depends on the platform. Two friends on your processor, I guess. Sure, right? Yeah, they were saying they were pretty clear that you do not have to ask for address. You can, but you don’t have to. The majority of non-profit websites today do they do rice. But their point was, that’s not the best idea. Right, But But now so well. But this is not in conflict, right? We gotta bring this tio black and white. Everything not so clear. So, you know, I mean, you’re saying that’s a lycan ideal process. Ideal practice. Acknowledging an online gift, I’LL find through the mail offline. Okay, there could be another way of acknowledging that online gift could be through phone. A phone number could be another way. Okay, uh, Wes life calls. Auto House. Okay. Latto caught was latto calls. Yes, was a pre recorded call very inexpensive that, like the executive director of the organization, can record. And you send that to all of your new donors to welcome them to the organism. Thank them and welcome them. Yep. Okay. Interesting. Um, okay, Uh, I’m not sure. So we’re way. Start with audit of our current process. Always a place to start. Okay. What are we looking for? What? Some common sticking points and bad practices that we want to be conscious. Seldman are loaded. So we’re looking at, like, what already goes out, right? What’s the default? So again, for online donors, there is the default confirmation page. That’s usually very receipt transactional basis that has all of the semi critical information from the processors point of view. But it’s not very donor-centric on DH. It certainly doesn’t show the impact that the gift is going to make for the non-profit who’s receiving the donation. Same thing with that otter responder email. It’s generally plain text, very receipt based. Well, we want to do is build out stewardship touches like turned these receipts into nurtured opportunities so that people are bonding with the organization and moving past that transactional relationship. Same thing with their direct mail receipts. You know, most organizations send them out, at least to their direct male donors, if not also to their online donors. But you can improve upon the look and feel of that package, make it really stand out in the mailbox so that it doesn’t look like one of your fund-raising appeals. Or it doesn’t look like a bill from, you know, your health insurance company or anything else right on DH. Just show that love right up front. No one has ever said, Stop thanking me like in the history of effort, So that’s something that we’re constantly trying to reinforce with that, and then the newer, like the newer channels, all of the innovation with SMS and auto calls, or even live calling like those air usually add on so they wouldn’t show up in your audit. But they’re nice iterations to go above and beyond on DK and be done with volunteers and things like that out of my Mahler’s remembers. I love a working board. Yeah, put him to work, Christie. What you wantto I mean, I think that that’s exactly right. Everything Brenna said. I think the one thing to consider and your audit as well is making sure is, Brennan noted, at the top of our conversation about that multi-channel experience. So just because someone is giving online, don’t assume they don’t want to hear from you offline. You know, a lot of us almost all of our media interactions are happening in on a screen. And so to actually get that piece of paper is something that people really remember really means a lot to them, and it’s significant. The other thing is, don’t be afraid to reach people on their phone to think them. You know, a lot of people have sort of a bad taste in their mouth about what telemarketing is. Nobody’s gonna be upset if you call them to say thank you. And nobody’s gonna be upset if you text them to say thank you. And if you text them to say thank you, they’re definitely gonna see and they’re definitely gonna remember it. Okay, Um, so after we have our audit, what’s our next step? We got it. We got to start improving improving our practices. Copy. Maybe a little bit of time. Couple steps in time. Your creative Seymour Brennan. Yeah. So it’s, you know, it is about building up the that content into both being relevant for that specific donorsearch for Don’t hurt I ppe Did they make a one time gift at what dollar value did that dollar value kicked them into e-giving circle of some level. And then you need to acknowledge that in a separate way, you can also use the type of appeal that they responded Teo to enforce. Thank you. Copy as well. So like, did they respond to something about puppy mills versus something about horse meat? Like having that content flow through into the acknowledgement program and into the welcome Siri’s afterwards to keep them going tohave a next action opportunity eyes A fantastic way to start. Is it right that our first time donorsearch retention read? Uh, non-profit wide is like around twenty five percent. We typically see closer to a third to being healthy, but oh, I’m going down. I’m citing how bad it is. Yeah, it has been going down is going down. It is going on the wrong direction we got. And that’s honestly, like a lot of that data is coming out around the last few quarters of twenty twenty eighteen. So there’s a lot of reasons right now as we kick off year to start really thinking about how you’re bonding people to the organizations that you’re fund-raising for. All right. All right. Um, we’ll also talk about designing a multi-channel welcome and nurture nurture. Siri’s is that Is that basically what we’re talking about? Our nurture. Siri’s a little bit. I mean, I think I think the acknowledgement process should be part of that nurture mint, right. It’s the first interaction for a lot of organizations post that gift. The first outbound communications and a lot of ways s oh, it’s a natural bridge to the welcome Siri’s and kind of steward that stewarding them throughout that relationship. So longfield we should not be setting anything and forgetting about it. Everything needs to be very conscious decisions about what copy we’re sending to who, what content they’re getting when on the touchpoint. I mean, all of the data that we have shows that the more of those pieces of touch our personally identifiable information right, like whether it’s postal address or email address or phone number, the more of those contact point that we have on for a constituent hyre their retention will be and the hyre their value will be to the organization on a lifetime level. So, like while it might be easier to not get that postal address, I want that postal address. There’s so much more value. Okay? Yeah, You know what? There there are other Point was don’t do it in the donation. All right, that’s in the donation on the donation pages. Waken ask for that later on that they may be right after the gift is made. Would you like to share your your mail? Now that makes it option over. Okay, Right. But then it raises the question of why, right? You which you have to have a good answer, would like to be able to think we’d like to be able to send you something. I don’t know. All right, but, you know, incentive based. Thank you. They’re always like people love swag. So you could do that. That’s definitely an office sticker and done in Dustin. Yeah, okay. What they done Injustice e. Did you get dates with the kind of lines like that? This’s kind of witty banter like that. Future dates or watching? Amazing. Oh, my God. You’re turning right there. Okay, so I just realized I just put two and two together. You that’s gonna happen in the future, too, is not only in the past. Oh, my God. And this is going to be more relevant. More, more. It’s a more recent about making love you. So in other words, what do you think of the host? That’s what I want to know. Okay. Uh, Christy date. What do you think of the host? Keep which it’s Tony. As tony martignetti dot com is the best way. Or you can use the contact page at tony martignetti dot com from and I never hear from you again. I think the time you said I think, think of the time I’m saving you. Thank you so much if they come, if they beating you up, I feel about you know if if they make it through over this threshold, right and you know that it’s it’s really more than yeah, it’s more than superficial thinking past this. They say they watch the whole video like we haven’t gotten into a ton of things, but I can try to learn more. We’LL see Next time just roughly halfway in thistle happened roughly twelve minute mark. So? So if they hear this, they making twelve minute mark. You know, I think there’s potential definitely beyond the average. Definitely all right time for our last break text to give. Get their five part email. Many course to dispel myths around mobile giving. You know donations don’t have to go through the donors phone company that puts a cap on GIF ts. There’s a smarter way with no cap. Mobile giving does not have to be limited to single or double digit gif ts. To get the email. Many course. Dispel the myths you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. We’ve got lots more time for welcome your donors the right way. Okay, so we’re, like only halfway in. So what else do we need to talk about if you don’t? Your panel yet? We did it. So one third, seventy five minutes. Talking about what else? What else? On Let’s broaden it a little bit now. So not on ly first time donors, but volunteermatch comes a donor. Small, small gift donorsearch a mid level or higher level donor. What do we need to do to make them love us? Chrissy? Yeah. So I think this is actually really great question. So thank you for asking. It s o. You know, essentially, I think that there are ways Tio Tio integrate people into new parts of our organization. I think one of the easiest things for folks to understand is upgrading folks to monthly giving. And how do you start to think those people in a way that feels really special and bonds them to that program you already know? They’re exceptionally bonded to the work that you’re doing. And so how do you start to think them in a way that makes them feel like, Oh, my gosh. Now we’re part of an even more special piece of this community, right? So, you know, in our session, we talked a lot about you know, when you, for example, are thinking a monthly donor. Often do you want to thank them? Do you wantto Brenda calls it waking the bear. You know, where you kind of like your calling out to them? Do you want to tell them? Every month you’re giving me a monthly gift, and then, you know, where do you want? Oh, yeah. You know, you want to take him every month. I mean, so there we were talking about it also talked about splitting the baby there because there are philosophical differences and conversations there. I think the that standard used to be Don’t wake the bear, right? Don’t remind them that they’re giving every month they will leave. Oh, my gosh, that can’t be it anymore. We all have so many subscriptions in our life, whether it’s Netflix or Lulu or you know, all of these things, that if they don’t feel good about it, then when the card expires or is stolen or core compromised not going to bother and I drop them might drop it, right? So So we had some people in this action that we’re talking about quarterly, right? Maybe kind of following up in a different way, a different time period. So it’s not every month, but I think you can do monthly as long as you are using it as a nurture touchpoint. It’s not just a receipt like you don’t want anything you give to your donors to just be a throwaway effort. If you’re taking the time to send it, you wanted to actually mean something to them. So if it’s literally just a receipt, how much value does that really provide? Like not a lot. OK, so something impactful for that month. Way reached. Yeah, I don’t know. Nothing’s coming to mind, but that’s why you’re the consultants in that. And I’m the consultant plan e-giving. Yeah, you know, one of the go ahead. You know, I’m just flushing out why I don’t have an answer. I don’t no more. No more detailed needed on that. I don’t have a suggestion, I should say, Well, one of the things that you know could be a really impactful way to leverage that Thank you. Moment is to kind of look at your sustainers file in winter, people the most likely to fall off of your file and then take that opportunity to do, like an exceptional thankyou. So we see you lose a lot after between one, three and four, right? Exactly. So maybe that’s the month where you send that hand written note. That’s like we know you are. We love you. We see you right? If you already you’re sending tote bags or calendars in your acquisition or something like that. Leveraging that with a special note two two sustainers at the quarter mark for the six month mark way have clients that do, like all out at your anniversary. Your thank you for being here for one year with us, you know, making it about them. There was miles so now and then again, tying it to the impact and, like people want to make impact and they want to feel important. And that’s true whether this is their first ten dollars gift or their thousand dollar gift or their one million dollar gift. And so figuring out the way that you say thank you that feels like they’re making that difference, that that matters. That’s part of a good donor experience, you know, And I think that carries through whether it’s sustainers or like an event volunteer who’s becoming a donor for the first time. That’s a different level of engagement with the organization and the fact that they have that history already with you eyes very powerful. And so, if you can reference that relationship in the content as well, that will go much further and building strengthening that relationship in the long term. Um, a lot of this subsumed in what we’re talking about is having these systems systems in place on DH, constantly tweaking them. Voice just cracked like I’m a fourteen year old is coming twelve fourteen. You gotta have these systems in place and somebody will be monitoring them. Christie, to your point, you know you can’t just set it and forget it. Or one of you said that I’m sorry, whose you bring up, but, um okay, so who’s responsible for these systems? Is this is this is in the development to Development department depends on the non-profit. It’s definitely a collaboration between, like some level and development marketing each non-profit is configured in a different, slightly different way. So, like, who owns things would change, But yeah, the data is really important on and having a two directional or multidirectional sink of key data components so that you can condition allies content based on those relationships from other channels. In other words, like sinking between your cr m and your email Exactly. Your texture responded. Yep. Yeah, and vice versa to write. If we are sending those offline acknowledgements toe online donors, you need that level of information. Ideally, there’s some source codes in there. So you know what sort of relationship they had with you before Andi, you know what sort of appeal? Our issue they came in on. So again, Was it dog me? Are you know, brovey meals are? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that’s all very important. You don’t have the infrastructure setting that I always like. You know, you got to get your house in order before you invite people over, right? And that’s more about acquisition costs. But data is also super important. Like you can’t. You can start and then build and have a plan to scale because everybody can’t do everything right away. But you got to start with clean data. So can I ask a question? Is that not OK in this setting? Okay, So beat you up so much. How could I possibly say no to im those now, everyone? Yeah, Kristie hyre non-profit. So, like, what would you say about, like, not letting am not letting great be the enemy of good. So, like, invokes air. Just like we we don’t have the bandwidth for all of the data collection or all of the data sank. Like, where? Where is that starting point? Yeah, well, I mean, I think it depends on where you’re getting most of your gifts into, Like, what channel? You want to start with the focus on right, Because bang for the buck. If you’re If most of your gifts are checks in the mail, let’s focus on those confirmation acknowledgement letters, the receives and and the welcome kit direct mail package kind of offline pieces. So you don’t have to worry about the email side of the world if the date is not playing nicely right away. Vice versa. Obviously, here at ntcdinosaur mary-jo online focused, you start on the online site and Luckily with the online stuff you usually have the the thinks like you don’t need to sing because your email marketing system is in the same system. Is your donation processing system doesn’t have to be right plugging You could have a husband spoke solutions at that point, too. But for most of them, they are most of our clients, especially so you can excuse me. You can live also going over, yeah, latto happening at this table. A lot of personal latto personal, something momentous person and not a cheap hormones. So you can. You can create a somewhat cohesive donor experience with siloed channels. It is possible it just takes a lot more like work on an ongoing basis. In Official, it’s very inefficient. So I get out. You know, we talk about how much work it takes to set up the process in the beginning, to get a multi-channel like really integrated surround sound campaign happening. But if you’re not doing that, you’re putting in the leg work all the time to make sure that you don’t sound like two different organizations. An email indirectly, that’s very bad practice. Yeah, have some of the questions were some of the questions you got in your session that you thought were particularly interesting or I don’t know if they could be provocative, but interesting is good. Yeah. WeII did get questions about, like, just testing. What tide of creative treatments. People should focus their time on to test on DH. Tarsem. It depends, obviously, depends on the channel, but I think a lot of it for anything that will email and direct mail. Specifically, it’s trying to get people into the content in the first place. So whether it’s your subject line and send her name and email or your teaser on your outer envelope in the mail, both of those air very similar from a user experience standpoint on their very low bar. Easy tweak tests. Teammate teasers on outer envelopes. They work. Oh, they’re so important. They do? Yeah, that’s a good one example of a couple of good ones. I mean, for our for acknowledgements. Thank you. Gift receipt and close. Like, very clear. Okay, this is not an appeal, right? All right, we’ve got for acquisition. Oh, God, we’re off. We’re off on your own time. But I’ve always wondered about this, because when I see these things, and it’s not at all what I do know. What’s a good Christy? What’s a good acquisition? Uh, what do you call these on? The outer sabelo Theo. Good acquisition. What kind of depends on what’s inside or the organization. But anything that talks about matching gift urgent. Well, urgent. Open immediately that work. Sure, people respond to that Second notice reminder. Special gift enclosed for free gift. Yeah, free gift and clothes. I could notice that I didn’t notice. We’Ll stamp like reminders. They have the stamp it rough. It looks like it was damned. Yeah, Looks like it was a hand written. Oh, anything. Anything that looks like a human touched it. We call it the power of the paper clip because like, you can’t machine that. So if it anything that feels like humans have touched it will automatically get more attention. But it is a machine printing that Oh, yeah, but it looks like you’re just trying to create the experience of life came off their desk. But you people believe that mean yes, we’re not wear not I do believe this stuff like a human actually wrote that or somebody’s coming. Somebody had a stamp on ink pad and a stamp. I think it depends on the size of the organization. Like somebody’s probably not going to believe it as easily from AARP, but they will believe it from their local U S P c A. Well, so it just depends. Yeah. Alright. I’m really surprised that second notice open open urgently. Renewal is a very powerful word as well. So having renew does well yeah, renew your membership right on the teeth. Er, something like that. Okay, we’re hearing everything. You’re turning those. The winner was the other one Free. Free? Yeah. Just just a word. Free Well attached to something so free. Some very powerful words. Just free. Just wait. Just wait, OK? We got another, like, two minute and a half or so two minutes. What? What else? What else? Questions. Other question. They were good. Oh, gosh. You know, I feel like a lot of people had questions. Agent about sort of what it meant to take their online. Thank you. Experience offline. Dahna Few. There was a lot of questions about printing and paper. Yeah, favorite. Everyone’s favorite. Well, cause some of its first. So some organizations like conservation organizations are very paper free on DH. So but having the numbers that actually show that people who give to receive packages to acknowledgment gifts are better donors than people who don’t can make the case to the board members or to your CFO or whoever else that, like we really should think about this at some level. Maybe we’re not mailing every online donor. Maybe it’s not five dollar donors or ten dollar donors, but maybe at the fifty dollar donors level, those folks are like, worth that added investment. So having that numbers to back it up is really helpful, and any time you could decrease the time to second gift is huge on. Typically, most non-profits see one gift a year on average, whatever time of year that is. If it’s not sustainers. If you khun, change that twelve months between first and second gift to two months between first and second gift because people you have a greater lifetime value and hyre retention we’re seeing, I mean, especially with new donors, because they’re giving habits haven’t been cemented. Get we’re seeing anywhere from forty five to sixty five percent hyre retention rates across the board and hyre values. So it’s amazing. Okay. Okay. Christy, I’m gonna give you last words, like, fifteen seconds of motivation about, you know, making them love you. Oh, gosh. Well, that’s a lot of pressure. I know. You know, I think that if you don’t know where to start, just say thank you. Say thank you every way you can say it sincerely and say in a way that really means a lot to the folks who have given you their time, their money, their actions, whatever that looks like. It really goes a long way to improve your donor’s experience. All right, that was Chrissy hyre. She’s vice president of Innovation, Chapman, cubine and Husky. And sitting next to me is Brenda Homes, Vice president, Digital services Also at Chapman cubine, Cassie. And you are with Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of nineteen Auntie Si twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. This interview, Like all of ours this year brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. Come see. Ch is in sponsoring brovey radio. That is a great question to bring them when you bring that back to back to back to the main office way. We’LL do that. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Next week, Google grants with the head of Google. Add grants Michelle her Tato, also from nineteen. Auntie Si. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by Pursuant online Tools for small and midsize non-profits. Data driven technology enabled Tony dahna em a slash pursuing capital P. Wagner CP is guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A Creative producers. Claire Meyerhoff Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Stein with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit Ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking Alternate network e-giving Wait, you’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network? Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned Potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. 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Nonprofit Radio for February 22, 2019: Flash Fundraising & DEI and Governance II

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Matt Scott: Flash Fundraising
Prepare. Launch. Engage. These are the essential elements for rapidly and successfully fundraising when breaking news intersects with your cause. Matt Scott from CauseMic talks us through.

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Gene Takagi and I wrap up last week’s thoughtful convo on diversity, equity and inclusion, with mechanics for your board: by-laws; recruiting; committees; decision making; oversight metrics; and more. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group.

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit Radio Big Non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure your Asef Feliz. Um, if you blew my mind with the idea that you missed today’s show flash fund-raising Prepare, launch, Engage these air the essential elements for rapidly and successfully fund-raising when breaking news intersects with your cause. Matt Scott from Cause Mike talks us through and d I and governance to Jean Takagi and I wrap up last week’s thoughtful conversation on diversity, equity and inclusion with mechanics for your board by-laws recruiting committee’s decision making oversight metrics. He’s our legal contributor and principle of Neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group attorneys take to act blue. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS guiding you Beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four, four nine nine nine Here is Matt Scott with Flash fund-raising Matt Scott is CEO of Cause Mike and an industry leading Non-profit fundraiser. He helped Team Rubicon scale from two hundred fifty thousand dollars in annual revenue in two thousand eleven to thirty million dollars in two thousand seventeen twenty seventeen. He’s led the company to help a diverse range of non-profits raise millions of dollars online, including Movember Volunteers of America and the Humane Society. He’s at Matt B. B. A, and the company is at cause Mike Crew and cause. Mike dot com Matt Scott Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me really appreciate it. Pleasure, Pleasure. We’re gonna talk about flash fund-raising. And so I presume that the first thing Teo need to have in place is preparation so that you know, like what kinds of topics and issues are going to cause you tow burst into this flash Yeah, absolutely. So we kind of defined flash fund-raising as any time bound campaign, meaning it’s not going to be an evergreen campaign they’ve got running all the time. But to your point, Tony, it’s really rooted in in this notion of what kind of big moment they’re related to. The impact of your non-profit has in the world is newsworthy. Right? So how do you leverage or capitalize on those newsworthy moments? They relate to your organisation in order to raise funds and awareness. And Dr supporters Okay, so we really kind of finding is that Yeah. And, you know, if something relates to your mission in the news on and you are silent, you know, then I think you risk becoming irrelevant. Yeah, that’s exactly right. I mean, whether you were somebody like our client u s A for UNHCR working with, you know, refugee communities all around the world, or you’re someone like Mercy Corps who we work with. Who could capitalize on, uh, you know, the hurricane in Puerto Rico or the earthquake. And, Paul, you really gotta look for opportunities to be relevant in the news cycle. It’s an opportunity for you, Really, You know, both get your brand out there, but also to acquire new supporters. How How suddenly do you need to be ableto activate when we’re going to get to the preparation? Were not act activation yet launching yet. But I mean, how how quickly do you need to be ready to go? Yeah. I mean, I think it’s really important that that you’ve got the systems and process and method in place in order to capitalize on a news cycle within those first twelve to twenty four hours. I mean, if you take something like Hurricane Hardy Urmila Maria last year and you look a, you know, just really what does that cycle look like? It’s within the first twenty four to forty eight hours where the news is mace drawn to it. And that’s when you’ve got the greatest opportunity, too. Galvanize your base of supporters as well as engaged new supporters. I would say you need to move quickly within the first twenty four hours on the news cycle. In order, Teo really kind of be relevant. And then so I guess tangential to this because we’re talking about fund-raising. But you also want to have a communications plan in place so that you can activate quickly. Journalists. You want to be in touch with bloggers, other influence leaders influencers that you want to be in touch with when again when you know as you’re saying, something hits the news. So you can you can activate quickly on the communication side. Not, you know, not fund-raising related, but trying to get out to the media. Bloggers fear, etcetera. Exactly. I think of kind of two approaches to the communications plan, and both of them you absolutely had on in the head are all about being prepared. The first one is having a list of media outlets in building a relationship with those media outlets and people there prior to master over some news moment, right? So that they know that you’re a trusted source. You don’t want to use that news moment as a as a chance to reach out to them cold. You really kind of want to build that relationship in advance. Also, you want to think about how do you make it as easy as possible for you to be featured as a subject matter expert in the event of a newsworthy event? How are you going to make. It is easiest possible for them to ask you critical questions or to provide context of how your organization is driving impact to solve whatever problem it is that you’re facing. The second piece of it is really comes down to having a multi-channel communications plan, and this is a lot more in the work, you know, in the control of the non-profit. So that includes everything from, you know, SMS. Mmm. So text messaging, chap pot, email, marketing, social media, paid ad paid search How do you develop like a full multi-channel communications plan that ultimately has a single narrative and across all of those channels, but the actual messages slightly different, unique to those channel requirement. Yeah, excellent. Excellent. And listeners you’ll remember had Peter panepento on, and I think it was December and around his book, which I can remember the name of. But we talked all about communications plan and a public relations and a media strategy. Take back public relations. That’s not quite right having a media strategy. And we did talk about what what Matt is talking about, you know, having in place relationships and a plan in advance. So if you want to hear a flower on on a media strategy, including flash moments, go to tony martignetti dot com and just search Peter panepento and that that show will come up. It was a pressure was last December, or was it was November. Okay, so, Matt, so thanks for that. Well, digression on communications. I put you on the spot because that’s not your not your expertise. But thanks for thanks for weighing. And that was that was valuable. Um, all right, so let’s go back to strictly the fund-raising. And what what technology do you need to have in place in advance? Yeah, that’s a great question. So first and foremost, you need I make sure that you have a sierra. Some of our favorite theorems, their sales force for kind of some other organizations that wanted fund-raising solution. All in one, there’s Sierra something like fund-raising straight AA lot of more established organizations. They’re using products like, uh, like blackbaud, Right. But at the end of the day, you wantto want a place where you can collect dahna information as those donations start to come in. Beyond that, you also need to think about like, the top of funnel. So from acquisition, how are you really keeping track of which acquisition channels are working? So if you put out those paid Searcher paid social ads, how can you ensure that you’re seeing return on investment? You need a way to capture thie email address at the very least of the supporter or some form of communication, like a phone number, so we can text you also, of course, need a way to collect donations. So some of our favorite platforms for that include give lively, which is entirely free for non-profits pretty much disrupting the space right now. Getting integrate seamlessly with sales for you also got stuff like classy or fund-raising, both excellent classrooms and innovative sales lorts. And so you want to have a way to kind of take those donations right? But you also want to have an email service provider in place and, increasingly, more and more our clients. They’re seeing a lot of success around text messages and using SMS and Chapa. So we think it’s really important that you also have, you know, leverage a platform like Twill Leo, which you know is an amazing product that is near free for non-profits on and allows you to send one on one SMS and mmm messages to your constituents. So I think in terms of overall, you need a way to acquire and track your acquisition channels. You need to see our AMAH place deposits that in for me, Agent, you need to make sure that you have a way to process donations. Then you gotta have on the communication side, at the very least, a stronger but no service provider as well as an ability to text message your your constituents. I say those are the fundamental elements. Of course, there’s a lot of other a lot of other things that can go into a great text back, But those were really the fundamental Okay, we’re gonna take our first break. Matt. When we come back, I’m gonna, uh, tease out something that you sort of suggested. You didn’t say it, but I just sort of blackbaud razor’s edge. I wonder if those air getting antiquated even though they’re so huge. I mean that not those that razor’s edge product. So we’re going to die aggressive labbate. So give thought to that You got, like, thirty seconds and then I’m going to be on spot again pursuant their newest free E book, The Art of First Impressions. It’s all about donor-centric track new donors making it You need to make that smashing hit first impression. That’s what this is about. The book. It’s got six Guiding principles of Ineffective acquisition strategy. How to Identify your Unique value. Plus, it’s got some creative tips. You’ll find it at the landing. Paid the listener landing page tony dot m a slash pursuing capital P for please. All right, now, let’s go back. Tio, Matt Scott and Flash Fund-raising. So So, Matt, it was just like an inflection and you’re in your voice. Is blackbaud becoming, ah, dinosaur, even though it’s enormous in the market? Or Or did I misread your tongue? Uh uh, political answering this question now he’s hitting on you at the end of the day. Here’s what I’ll say. We’ve moved dozens of organizations off blackbaud and on they’ll force. We have yet to move anybody from sales first blackbaud. Um, but at its core, this is this is kind of the fundamental difference on, you know, sales forces really disrupted the space and the main different. You’ve got an open source platform where you’re able to use best in class female service. Best in class. Uh, you know, text messaging or best in class fund-raising. And you’re able to integrate all of those things in an open way where blackbaud forces you really to use their products. So when you think about you know it’s really come down the innovation, it seems like everybody else’s innovating. And and I think that it’s really important that non-profits go down the way where they’re going to have the ability to capitalized on major trends in the market, like the ability to monitor what’s going on on social media or the ability to really robotically track. Uh, you know, your ad spending conversion and as far as I can tell it can’t say that I You know, I’m all knowing about Blackbaud by any means. But I will say that, you know, we’ve been very satisfied with sales force and the ability to recommend that in class solutions to our non-profit clients that integrate into a system seamlessly really interesting. I So I’m boiling it down to open source versus proprietary. Ifyou’re on Blackbaud, you’ve got to use their plug ins. You gotta buy there. You gotta buy their add ons exactly. Right. At the end of the day, they weren’t forced to innovate. They were really the only players in the field of battle, you know, five years ago. And that makes a really big difference. The sales force still have first ten licenses for ah non-profit are free. That’s correct, gang. With the non president’s success, pack the first ten licenses training non-profit or free. Um, And then you’ve got to, like, give lively right there. Entirely free non-profits that integrated sales, They’re seamlessly. You’ve got a lot of non-profit discounts for Tulio. Male chimps. You got a lot of options there that just aren’t available. Okay, Okay. Say, Say what? What? What’s the programme again called on Sales Force sales force. What? Oh, non-profit success back. Okay, we’re given unpaid, unpaid shoutout to sales force because all right, so I think they need it. Yeah, right. They should be our biggest. Have four corporate sponsors. They should be the largest stations. Should be owning this. No owning this show. No, I own the show. It’s like a carry away. It’s not Salesforce non-profit radio, but yeah, they OK, I agree. All right, So I heard you. I heard you’re right. I read you. Right. I’m glad. Okay. Um, so we’re still in the preparation stage. You’ve got something called a campaign kit. What? What is this? We’re still in preparation. Yeah. Yeah. So really help our fine set up in advance, right? Like, what is that Multi-channel communications plan Look like? You need to make sure we have clearly defined brand guidelines. So what is your voice? What is your tone with style? Uh, what do you want to get out there? It’s really important. We start going across all these different channels because you want people to know, to be familiar with your brand. You want them, whether it’s the first that they’re hearing about you or their longtime supporters, you don’t want any surprises, right? You want someone to know this is a team Rubicon, This is mercy. This is the Humane Society. I know that because it’s strong. Brand guy won. Second thing you want to do is have a graphic kit teed up. So let’s say that you’re you know, the origin Humane Society. One of the clients. They respond to disasters as well. So if you know that that’s not your primary mission. But it’s something that is a service you provide. So when there’s wild fires, for example, they went down to California and rescued puppies and kittens to what other lies have been displaced. They pre-tax and we set up graphics in advance that had direct needs that showcase the work that they were doing that connected a supporter. The actual impact in the field. You also want to have a list of talking points, right? These are things that anybody on your team can point to, a reference that Khun clearly simply articulate. Exactly the you know what the purpose of your work is. That’s a really key point. And finally you really wantto have kind of the sample emails. Text Pete up. So these air urgent appeal emails are urgent appeals tax that clearly again demonstrates your target audience. The impact that you’re having, the fields and the urgency. It is important the customizes for each and every event. So it’s important that you don’t just think about it. It’s like, Okay, I’m sending out this temple it every time. Uh, but at the same time, there are, you know, there are certain aspects of it that you can pre planned for us. The final piece of, you know, kind of a campaign hit, if you will, is segmentation. We spend a lot of time helping our clients segments, their communications. It’s all about meeting each and every constituents on their preferred platform with their preferred message. There prefer time Dr Conversions to derive from using for the non-profit. So we like to think about donor-centric fund-raising and advocate. And within each of those major profile sites you need to develop a multi-channel communication plan, cleared grand guidelines, great visual, clear messaging on the talking points and lots of appeal. That action. What about making this all or subsets of it available publicly so that you can engage some people who might want to do their own like Peer-to-peer campaign around your your flash campaign, you share these share the stuff publicly. Absolutely. You just hit it on the head, Tony. I mean, you talk about Peer-to-peer fund-raising, right? These are people who are passionate about your cause, but they’re not professional. Fundez. Yeah, right. You have to deliver to them the tools and the messages that will resonate with care with your potential supporters, their friends and family. At the same time, the majority of people who donate to a peer-to-peer fund-raising page are not really in it to support the organization. They’re basically in it to get their friend their family off their back, over off their doors. Kept that at the end of the day, how do you transition somebody from being? I made a donation to Tony, too. I made a donation to U. S. A. For UNHCR. Yeah. Lorts begin to send them through the channels. So that bad because our okay, we’ll spend more time talking about making that transition. Where do you like to share? Where would you like to see clients share these docks for the people who wanted take it to the next level and do their own peer-to-peer fund-raising. Well, my favorite is keep it easy. And I think text messaging is rapidly becoming the way that we distribute fund-raising coaching serious tio clients. Fund-raising techniques like favorite. Okay. First for sharing the tools for people to create their own peer-to-peer campaigns. Oh, yeah. Okay. Where you going? Where’d you like to put the repository of these? The tools the guidelines. You know, the graphics, etcetera of the sample emails that people can use. What? Where do you like to see that stuff put? Yeah, I mean, if you if you’re only gonna host it in one place, having on a site the you own your own website, It is really important. But I actually think it makes a lot more sense to break it off over time and defended out by a tax ID. Now, you know, don’t give it to him all of once, but instead send them little bits of information that they could take action on right away to drag. Okay, so, like so, like, every every twelve hours. You mean in this in this Because this is going well, this is going to be pretty short lived campaign, right? We’re talking about, like, a week or two or something isn’t even that long. Yeah. Yeah, I think two weeks is actually the okay. So how often do you sending out tio thes people who really want to activate the next level do their own peer-to-peer campaigns. How often you sending out new stuff to them by text with? Within the first twenty four hours, You want to send things out like two, three times, and then it tapers off. So then it’s kind of every day for the first week, and then you want you want to kind of spacing out every other day. You can kind of run spring in in three day period. We find that that’s the max that anybody wants to receive multiple communications per day. But that’s where that multi-channel engagement strategy comes into play. Thinking, email, social. A phone call, right? You’re kind of sharing the burning across channels so that they’re interacting with your brandy today on getting kissy stay. But it’s not always delivering the same channel. OK, OK, What about, um, having some influencers like pre positioned that people that you know are going toe? Uh, create that peer-to-peer campaign. Or at least if they’re not going to do a campaign, they’re goingto help you get the message out. But having this in the, you know the prepare a story of proprietary stages, you got ten or twelve key influences, you know, love your mission. You know, if it’s UNHCR, the High Commissioner for Refugees and there’s a refugee crisis, you know they’re going to jump on it, these ten or twelve people? What about having those relationships in place so that they’ll start blogging? They’ll start emailing whatever you know, whatever they do, treating Teo help you build momentum. What about having those relationships in place in advance? Oh, absolutely. That’s the preference. I mean, one of the great examples that comes to mind right off that is Anson Mount, who’s a great celebrity supporter. Team Rubicon, Um, you know, building up that relationship with Anson in advance and then basically empowering him. And so create custom fund-raising Vegas for Anson to be ableto fund-raising for Team Rubicon in the event of a disaster in Texas. So he was, you know, filming a television show for A in Texas, and it was a perfect opportunity for him to reach out his constituents. But all that was set up in advance of the disaster season to be more or less knew that most likely there will be a disaster in Texas, that here they’re setting up that influence relationship, giving him the talking points e-giving in the sample Social media post really empowered into Ray’s about forty eight thousand dollars Teamviewer response to flooding in Houston All right. I’m gonna admit that I’m a pop culture. No, nothing. I don’t know this guy, Anson. Who is that? Uh, it’s amount is, uh well, he’s huge co-branded teamviewer columns of a great celebrity Porter. But even after, um and he was the lead on hell on wheels and he also most recently played in a marvel movie as well on, you know, fair track, maybe. Okay, he’s a great guy. Okay, I’m sure he is, but it’s, uh, you know, I’m not. Yeah. I mean, if you’d said Al Pacino, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have asked you. Who is that? You know, So I got a bunch of clients who were looking for that pompel ball club buddies. Support has been even relating. Yes. Uh, okay. Just generational difference. No problem. Okay. All right, So we got we got everything in preparation now its launch time, and we need to know who’s gonna who’s gonna pull the trigger, right? Yeah, we having a clearly defined who Didn’t your maker go? No, go critical because, like, we already talked about first twenty four hours Really important. So we recommend Ma Bargain was down with too much process. It’s important for you really have, uh, you know, check the balance is in terms of copy, make sure the things that spell correctly that you’re not speaking or offer ends, but that decision to go or no go she’s really lead with a single person. So they’re they’re given the information that says we feel like for all intensive purposes, with traffic, it’s really high, you know, highly spoke about in the media. Let go, or we feel like that. If we were to activate right now, we wouldn’t really necessarily be included in on the conversation. We’re not going to get a lot of media. It could get a lot of in front of a lot of supporters then. Probably not going. Why would you feel the ladder? What would lead you to conclude? To not not activate? Yeah, I mean, well, let’s take you could be popular. That disaster response here. Let’s take hurting. Hold the urn and Maria write one hit after another. You have to begin to really think about Donorsearch a Teague and the fatigue of of society as a whole. So timing is really important. Hyre segment of your communications. Which media outlets he reached out to, you got to take into account how much you’ve already gone through. You know, your supporter lists and how much you’ve already asked them. So that really influenced things. Like a decision. That’s just one data point. Like what’s the frequency of the storm Who was hit how long ago to be asked for support? Um, how did Airbase responded that those are some of the elements. Okay, Okay, so s so if we decide not to go, then the show’s over. So the conversation over. So let’s go the other way. Now, let’s decide that way. Are gonna we’re gonna launch. Um what? What? What’s What’s first thing we need to do, the CEO or whoever the decision maker is, has said yes, she’s approved. Where do we go now? Yes, this is where if you have a fund-raising tool like fund-raising classic, give lively. You got that? Get that fund-raising page set up right away. Home and because you already have, you know, kind of prefect communications plan that we talked about. You begin to activate that. So you get those emails in place, you begin to send out, start with the channels that are really busy. So text messaging doesn’t take long. Social media doesn’t take wrong. And depending on what your brand you know, look, it feels like it’s important not to miss good for great meaning. People want to see what’s going on behind the scenes. So if you’re responding to disasters and example and you’re in the planning phase and you’re really getting ready for a response that you don’t get have powerful visuals of light the people affected by Thorne it’s important to show that behind the scenes wolf because it’s raw, It’s interesting and it’s easy to get out. So I would say, Start with channels that are really easy to just share information with and then work your way towards the channels that are more work, like email, where you’ve got a draft more more. Give me some examples of that behind the scenes early on. I guess that’s like first twelve hours or so content. Like what? Yeah, so examples might include, uh, your team monitoring storm. Or they might include in from, you know, meeting time that you’re preparing or getting your go bags around here. Any equipment you need to get out the door. What’s happening? Place dramatically behind the scenes. In the case of refugees like, you’ve got terms of people working around the clock trying to find out more information from the field so that the field team can make informed decisions. All that kind of content is interesting and engaging, and it can just be shot on a smartphone, right? Just simple. There are updates. Maybe it’s somebody from your field team or your program. He’s literally just shooting a thirty second video that you know is framed. Well, well lit light in your face horizontally shot. Just quick tips on how to make them look better without spending a lot of money. But it’s just someone standing there saying, like, Look, this is These are the actions that were taking right now, and it’s thanks to the generous support of supporters like you, where we’re looking for people who financially contribute were dedicated to solving this crisis. This is what we’re doing Those air, like really, really impactful communications. Yeah, people do like, behind the scenes, absolutely that you’re drawing them into the crisis before as it’s unfolding to you that you’re trying to learn more, you know, you’re keeping them informed. I mean, if you’re going to fund-raising around a crisis or an incident, Um you Ah, yeah. I mean, you want to draw them in and you said something that really struck me. Please, when you when you’re doing quick video, please. Please hold. Hold the phone horizontally, not vertically. Act can’t stand those little frames. You get a little one inch by one inch frames you get when it’s vertical, for God sake. Okay, this is, uh we’re running a little long, so, um, let’s let’s go to engagement. So we’ve already We’ve already launched. We got our You’ve already talked about SMS and M M s and having chatbots replaced. Let’s move to engagement now. Yes, this is really the most the most important part, right. Uh, be your authentic self. So first and foremost, we want to express gratitude in a compelling and interesting, unique way. I highly recommend using a tool called can written. Um, this is one of our favorite tools for clients and integrate seamlessly with sales for us. It allows you to literally send and written cards by a robot, um, to each and every one of your supporters and comic, We actually have, like, a great pricing deal with them. So Chan, this plug there, but you’ve been retired there, But anyway, I think starting with a few card is really important. Is that going to help you stand out? The second thing you want to do is you want to send somebody through a new supporter. Welcome. Serious. And this is different, depending on whether they made a one time gift a recurring gift. But the serious should really be focused on first and foremost, expressing gratitude and immediately shifting toward the impact that they’re having in the field. Yeah, sure. Right. We like to talk about it. OK, that I’m going to give you give you an extra minute. Let’s go toe up. Great. Let’s goto let’s jump to upgrading. You touched on it earlier. You want to move these these one time donors to something more? You got a minute? I’m holding you to it. Yeah, so basically up their strategy is if you’ve got a one time donor-centric heidtke percent most e-giving difficult to do in a minute. But I would say Send them through a multi-channel supporter. Welcome serious. Quantify that impact present to them opportunities upgrade to a mostly get. To be honest, you can come to cosmic dot com on download our free guide on how to build a month e-giving program in ninety days. And I think that’s all I could do in a minute. Okay, that’s all right. Okay, so But it’s important to try to move These donors passed the incident that you were flash fund-raising for. Okay. Sametz got CEO of Cause Mike. You’ll find him at Matt b B a. And the company is at cause Mike Crew and cause mike dot com Where you could go for the resource is Matt just mentioned that Scott. Thank you very, very much. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. We need to take a break. Wittner, CPS. They have a new archive. Webinar for you. It’s accounting update. What has changed that? Wagner knows intimately, and you just need to know the basics off. That’s what they’re going to cover for. You. You don’t want to know the bait. You don’t want to know the intimacy of it. You just need the basics. For instance, new requirements for financial statements. You might not like to know a little about that, all right, and there’s other stuff that they cover in this accounting. Update. Webinar Go to Wagner cps dot com. Click Resource is then webinars to view the archive. Hey, it’s time now for Tony’s take Do I’m back Live ActBlue. Yes, ActBlue. I’m very grateful to them. They are non-profit Radios Sponsor, Premier, sponsor AT and TC Thie twenty nineteen Non-profit Technology conference. It’s March thirteen to fifteen in Portland, Oregon. P D. X. We are in a booth together. Boots five o eight and five ten. I’ll be doing tons of interviews for the show, Of course, that will be using over the ensuing months, and ActBlue will talk. Be talking to folks about the value of small dollar donations. You know them for political fund-raising Grassroots fund-raising three billion dollars worth over three billion dollars worth. Think about them for your non-profit fund-raising getting small dollar donations into the mix. That’s what they’ll be talking about. Um, they have a giveaway they have on site training. Giveaway on site. Did I say on site training giveaway that we’ll be doing at the booth? So come see us. I’ll be doing lots of interviews. Come say hello. If you’re at ntcdinosaur course, come buy boots five o eight five ten. Say hello to me. Metoo folks from ActBlue thank them for sponsoring ActBlue at the conference. Ah, and there’s a little more AA plus. Ah, mention of how hard it is to get good video talent on my video at tony martignetti dot com. And we’ll be talking about this more. Nineteen ninety Si, always a pleasure to welcome Gene Gene, the law machine. He’s our man. He’s the managing attorney of Neo, the Non-profit and exempt Organizations Law group in San Francisco. He edits the enormously popular non-profit law blogged dot com. He’s the American Bar Association’s twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer. He’s at G tak G Ta k. What else can I say about him? The best thing I think I most enjoy saying is Welcome back, Jean. Thanks, Tony. It’s great to be back. Yes, after just last week. Um, you were the twenty sixteen. You know, you realize now that that American Bar Association Outstanding non-profit lawyer thing, that’s three years old. Now it is. So we’re gonna have to get a new tagline for that or something. Are you going to run again? Can you? Can you be nominated again? I think maybe when I retire Tony, hopefully that’s some years away from that. That’s the Lifetime Achievement award. Yeah. You want to stay away from those? That’s that’s a death knell. Lifetime achievement award. You’re coming to a close when you get one of those. So you don’t You don’t want that yet. Okay? I want to thank you again for our very thoughtful the conversation last week. I don’t know. How does thoughtful, sincere conversation on this difficult diversity equity inclusion topic. I listened back to it on di just Thank you. That’s what I want to thank you very much for doing it. And for being a generous and sharing partner with me. Well, thank you for having that discussion with me to Tony that those air difficult discussions toe have, but I think really necessary ones. And it’s great to share that. Share it with the audience. Yeah, absolutely necessary. On DSO now, this week, which we didn’t get the cover. We want to turn some of this discussion into some action points for the board, and you have a lot of ideas around the board’s by-laws. Yeah, I think that’s right. So, you know, once you’ve committed that that, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion our topic of last weekend today are really part of the fabric of your organization’s core Vallon. You’ve got a champion for that, and they see it is organizational values they want on Believin in an equitable a system where you know all people are created equal and should have equal protections of law on equal rights. Unequal access. Once you’ve decided that that really is something that you want to do. And it’s not just about furthering your mission, which, you know, might be, too, um, advanced after school education. But you want to do it an equitable manner so that you’re not just favoring one you know group over other groups. And so once that’s decided, I think a really good sign of embedding those values into the organization is to put it in the organizational policies and the by-laws are really one of the core governing documents of the organization, and they’re really provisions there that can reflect the board’s commitment to diversity, equity and inclusions. Okay, um, and there’s, uh, there’s a lot that the board Khun do. Some of this is difficult. I want to point people to your blood post at non-profit law block dot com. You go into more detail there, and we have time for today about different provisions within the by-laws. But one that struck me is the is the selection of directors, and, well, I guess it’s too at the way you have The Post organized the selection directors in the qualification of directors, you know, again, challenging gets into should there be quotas or not? But, you know, say a little. It’s a little about the that selection and the qualification of directors. That was really apparent. So you know, a lot of people are focused on Well, the boards of non-profit organizations are really no more diverse, and they were twenty years ago. And sadly, that’s you know, with many non-profit leaders saying diversity on our board, this really important but not no riel action taken, you know, a sector over the last twenty years, and boards are still disproportionately dominated by white people and not with a lot of people of color, particularly in leadership positions. And the bigger the organizations are. Those discrepancies get get even worse. White males were talking about white males. Yeah, primarily, although there are a lot of females on especially smaller organization board, but still not not a lot of women of color on those boards. So addressing kind of some of those, you know, the discrepancy between non-profit leaders saying, this is really important, and the lack of action or achievement in advancing diverse boards or board composed of diverse populations is problematic. And so it’s not an easy thing to fix. But one of the things that you may think about is to determine Well, how are you? You know, qualifying board members. Do you have certain qualifications that say, you know, we we need board members toe, have this background with this education, or come from this particular area? Um, is that a good thing or bad thing? You know, sometimes you can say a quota like you mentioned way want, you know, a minimum of thirty percent of our board members. Uh, to be made up of women. So, you know, recently there’ve been some movement. California, I think, being going on one of the states in which they said, if you’re a public company operating here based in California, that you must have a certain percentage of women on your board by certain period Oh, interest line, though. Having a quota for non-profit corporations on board when when they haven’t really moved very much, could be effective. But there is sort of the disadvantage of Well, what if we said, you know, they had to be, uh, no, fifty percent Asian American? Andi, let’s say an organization and serving Asian American communities, we said the board has to be composed of fifty percent Asian Americans. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? And, um, you know, that’s a little bit more tricky to discuss. If we’ve got, uh, you know, uh, population where they’ve not been, where they’ve been marginalized and they haven’t been reflected. Well, fifty percent might be a good thing in terms of we. We’re not going to make them tokens in this organization if it was ah white dominated board, for example. But compare that if we said, Well, at least ten percent of our board must be African Americans, and we’ve got, you know, eight people on our board. So that means one boardmember they’re going to look for to be an African American person. And how are they going to feel if you know the reason they were picked? Because they’re African American. You know, that’s that was the determining criteria that you can’t really do it that way. I think you shouldn’t do it that way. That’s my opinion. So if you’re going to set a quota, you have to make sure that you’re looking at overall what your needs on the board are. So maybe you say, Well, we you know our serving African American population so we don’t have anybody African American on our board. So we lost that perspective of knowing how best to serve these communities. But bringing one member on the board and saying, Well, you represent all African Americans and give us your take on what they need is unfair. Yeah, that’s not only not only unfair but silly, it’s not fair to the person and just unreasonable Jean, I have to take a break. Got it pursuant their newest No, that’s Ah, that’s actually not the break that I need to take. The day break I need to take is tell us, can you use more money? You need a new revenue source. You know, you get the long stream of passive revenue when the cos you re far too Tello’s process their credit card transactions with Tello’s watched the video, then send the potential companies to the video. So it’s at tony dot m a slash Tony Tello’s We got to do the live listener love Oh, and there’s a ton of it to holy mackerel. Way far out. Well, whoa! Let’s go abroad. Um Brazil. Beirut, Lebanon. Seoul, South Korea. Bangalore, India. Hanoi, Vietnam. Lima, Peru. Moscow, Russia, Iraq in Baghdad and Yosh Car Ola in Russia Also well live listener Love to all the foreign listeners. That’s remarkable. Live love out to you Here in the States. I’ve got multiple New York New York. We’ve got Tampa, Florida got Providence, Utah, not Providence, Rhode Island, Providence, Utah Hello, Utah. Live love to the listeners who are with us at this very moment and the podcast pleasantries to those who are with us. At some other moment, maybe a couple days. Weeks could even be sometimes, you know, I see downloads Not uncommon, you know, like eight weeks later. Wherever, wherever we fit into your life into your podcast listening regiment pleasantries to you, the podcast listeners. All right, Jean, Thank you for that. Um, yeah, expecting. I mean, that’s that’s just gross tokenism and unreasonable, you know, expecting one person to reflect on the entire community, even if it’s just a neighborhood, you know? That’s that’s awful. Alright, so again, you know, like we talked about last, you and I talked about last week. We said between the two of us were these things, they’re challenges. He’s issued a challenge, but they’re not insurmountable. Theyjust take thought, you know, and some back and forth. But the these challenges can be overcome. I think so, too tiny. So, you know, you may determine on the board that you’re looking for a new board members, but not only to bring you perspective with respect to a particular population that your organization may serve. But you also may need somebody with the financial manager with background and somebody who lives in a particular geographic area and now you know how to get your candidates. He made sort of way in all of those things, and this might be house on some universities determined who to accept. You know their students when when they assess their applications, there’s sort of taking a look at all of the things and maybe the fact that a particular candidate is African American. And the example I gave to you where there is nobody with that identity on the board currently is a heavier weighting factor. But the fact that that person also has this financial experience and also comes from the geographic area that’s also not represented him. We have to think of of identity groups of being intersectional because, for example, I’m not just Asian American. I’m also a male. I also have a certain educational background. You know, certain social economic status, certain physical ability, status, a certain sexual orientation, certain gender identification, and we all encompass multiple multiple identities, and we bring different things to the table. So just sort of thinking about that and how people can contribute to an organisation overall and how you might waste certain things a little bit more at a particular period of time because it’s underrepresented in your organization. And I think you just have to sort of treated as a totality. And so while quotas, I can be helpful in some ways, especially if the board has shown no movement, adding just one member to take a good picture. And I think wait, talked about sure is in a terrible reason. You do it. So you want to make sure that you’re giving that person or those persons, preferably two or three board members. Toe bring in if you’re. If you’re picking a racial identity group, I I think really they’re bringing two or three people in minimum. Um, if you don’t have any persons that that belonged to that group, existing is really important. And making sure they have a voice and power within the organization. Well, athletic ability. I’ve seen pictures of you playing soccer. Is that your? Is that your sport now? Okay. That volleyball was a volleyball. Okay, about volleys, E. I thought you were bouncing a ball off your head, but that wouldn’t be followed. Well, that’s not that’s not good volleyball. So maybe I remember wrong. That was years ago. But I remember I don’t know. Maybe you were giving me potential pictures for a head shot or something Where they were on your website. It was playing was playing viable alt-right you’re in the sand. You’re like you’re wearing a suit in your barefoot in the sand, aren’t you? Rate a little bit old now, but yeah. Go play. Okay. Volleyball. All right, all right. Um, so let’s move. All right, so that’s that’s That’s very well said, Gene. And again, your block Post at non-profit law block dot com was into a lot of other areas in the by-laws of terms of meetings, compensation, different committees. That was a good committees. Well, we did talk about you having I made the point of having a diverse committee versus diversity committee. You make a good you make a good point in the post About diversity Committee could be valuable not being a committee of the board, because then it could be more inclusive. And you don’t consider you don’t have to bring everyone into your board. You don’t worry about expanding your board flesh out a little bit. That diversity committee that’s not a part of the board. Yeah, so you know, there there, maybe, at least in the initial attempts, difficulty to bring in that particular identity group to your organization. If you’re not really doing anything with you know that targets programs or that targets a particular aspects of what you do with respect to that identity group. So I’ll use Native Americans, for example, on DH saying, Well, we don’t have any programs that when we’re not planning on any, but we would sure like to have somebody who brings us that perspective with respect to what we do, Well, that’s going to be hard for somebody to want to be on the board, just to give you their perspective unless they’re tied to the organization in multiple other ways. But if you are looking for them just to sort of give you a little bit of voice, they might be a little bit more amenable to joining the committee that, you know, that might have a limited life man to see you know whether you really should be addressing Native Americans in your programming. Or maybe you’ve got a Native Americans on your staff, and you’re not really sort of thinking about what their particular perspectives or needs might be. That might be different from from other people. So, um, breaking committees together at hot committees or task forces and bringing in people from different backgrounds. Teo give you some advice, You know, on a high level might be a good way to start, and eventually that might lead Teo bringing them onto the board. If if you know it gets further along and you want to empower them and their ideas and they’ve got great things to contribute and you know it’s a way to bring your values that you are the organization’s agreed upon values. You know, more toa wife in what they’re doing by having the perspective. You also say that one of the activities of that diversity committee could be to conduct a diversity audit or D d I on it. Not just deficit but diversity, Equity inclusion, audit on DH giving that report voice. And then there’s a question where that should be public or not. But I thought that was that was particularly striking as well. Had an impact that can really be helpful to an organisation because you don’t know what you don’t know. And if you don’t have other perspective on it, you may never be able to find out. So bringing those people in-kind can really help. We gotta take our last break Gene. When we come back, let’s let’s talk about some decision making some oversight on a switch away from the from the by-laws nous. Really, our last break is text to give. Can you use more money? I need a new revenue source. Here’s the second one was repeated. Another way of doing it. Mobile giving learn about it with text to gives five part email. Many course fiv e mails away one a day break through some of the MS no mers and misunderstandings around what it takes to get into a text to give program the way to get the five part many course, which is five emails. One a day, you text NPR to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. All right, and we have got several more minutes with Gene for for our DEA and governance, too. Conversation, um, some decision making. Jean. You know, the basically, um, you know the oversight. How does that on DH? How does how does that how is that influenced by thes de issues suren and another really challenging area that that can be very organizational specifics. I’m going to really be speaking in generalities here, or maybe giving you a few examples of what it might be. But and I think first, you know, people who are leaders and nonprofit organizations really talk about being, you know, mission centric really centered. You know, all of their decisions should be made based on on advancing the mission in the best way possible. But, you know, with respect to some organizations if you advance your mission, but without considering your values, you really Khun go a stray from what you want the organization to be, so you know you’re You might feed homeless people, for example. But certain minority groups might be excluded because they aren’t receiving communications about those services in the language they understand or you might educate students. But you’re only serving those who can access your school, which might be in a more wealth the community and you might be protecting the environment, but not in places where marginalized communities lived. And in one example that’s close to the Bay Area, you might be. You might have an immense, an impactful grantmaking program, but failed to protect your employees from harassment and discrimination. Right? And so embedding D I values in how you oversee your organization and how you plan for their future and how you set policies. It’s really important because they can address all of those things, and there’s no shortage of examples where you know your values and diversity. Equity inclusion are not part of it where things could go go wrong. So hiring the CEO, selecting consultants, determining executive compensation How do you evaluate executive? All of those things don’t be influenced by the valleys that the organization have. And if you know, diverse, equitable and inclusive, um, practices are really what you wanted your organization to stand for. And really you think that’s going to be the best way to advance your mission and have, ah, happy, satisfied, fulfilled staff and volunteers and happy donors? I think you’ve got to start thinking about those things. You’re raising your raising consciousness. You know, again, we’re shifting from discussion toe action. If your organization is committed to d I as a core value, you know, then you’re you’re raising consciousness about what you could actually do to act on it and not just talk about it at board meetings. Let’s take a minute. You We only have about two minutes left. Was there a case in San Francisco that you were referring to her? That you said the Bay Area where our non-profit got into some trouble or what? Yeah, it was more a PR issue, but with Silicon Valley Community Foundation here, one of the biggest truckers in the world, you know, you know, they they ran into some some employees harassment at issue. And maybe, uh, leadership there was was not looking at that particular issue as muchas, sort of their core mission rather than than the set of values. So it really is just an important part of every organization I think is how you carry out your mission, Not just what your mission is. Yeah. Um, all right. I feel like, you know, we’re a little short, but I feel like we should wrap it there, Gene, because that’s I think that’s just perfect. Perfect. Wayto summarize our hour and a half of conversation. So I thank you again for covering this having this conversation, these conversations with me. Thank you so much Sharing, Gene. Great. Thank you, Tony. You’ll find him at G Tack. And, of course, non-profit. Lob log dot com Gene Gene, the law machine for insiders. Gene and I are going to talk about diversity, equity inclusion and your financial planning next week, your CEO board chair relationships with Aisha Nyandoro. And that’s going to spill over into a little about what Gene and I were talking about about intentionality of the selection of your board members. Because I know that we’re going to cover that because pre recorded that with Isha, see how it all blends together should not happen. Stance, for God’s sake. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled tourney dahna slash pursuant capital P by weather CPS Guiding you Beyond the numbers Wagner cps dot com by Tell US credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy. 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