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Robert Skrob: Retain Your Subscribers
Is your churn too high? Conversion too low? Credit card problems getting in the way? Robert Skrob is author of the book “Retention Point,” and he reveals strategies to keep your monthly sustaining donors engaged–for life.
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Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week. It’s Kyle Tharp. I did not meet Kyle. He could not make the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference where I was last week with the show in important Oregon. But he implored two of his co workers to take a picture with me and they got past my security, accosted me. And of course, you know, they showed such brazenness and they were so ah, apologetic for pushing my a security aside that I relented and I gave them a selfie. Uh, so I’m grateful to Kyle that Ah, he could I’m sorry he couldn’t make the conference, but he wanted to have a picture so bad. Eso Thank you, Carl. You are our listener Over the week. Kyle Tharp Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer oto and try this if I heard the idea that you missed today’s show. Retain your subscribers. Is your churned too high conversion to low credit card problems getting in the way. Robert Scrub is author of the book Retention Point and he reveals strategies to keep your monthly sustaining. Donors engaged for life Tony Steak to thankyou ActBlue and and ten were sponsored by PURSUANT full Service, fund-raising Data Driven and Technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By Tello’s Turning credit card Processing into your passive revenue stream, Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text NPR to four four four nine nine nine It’s a pleasure to welcome Robert Scrub to the show. He is a specialist in membership program turnarounds, transforming sick programs, losing ten percent to as much as twenty percent of their members each month to keeping members for years and even decades for life. He’s consulted with more than forty seven associations, creating marketing campaigns for membership conferences, sponsorships and events for dozens of different industries, including non-profits. He’s at Robert Scrub and robert scrub dot com. Welcome to the show, Robert. I’m so proud to be here, Tony and my goodness, I knew I would break through your security to get a selfie as well. You want great opportunity that well, it’s only know too well It’s four guys. It zbig challenge. But the’s too small. Folks from from from Kyle’s office were able to do it. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Not everybody would be so bold. That wellit’s Tony martignetti. I mean, it’s it’s it’s worth. It’s worth. It’s worth risking incarceration. I think I had a bottle. Yeah, yeah. Potential bottle injury. Write thie. Guys are not the guys not strapped, so there’s no weapons. Well, there’s no guns. And about anyway, I won’t. I won’t go so far to say there’s no weapons, but there’s no guns. So you’re saying you don’t want to disclose exactly what it is because you know that Would Justin Jangers, your own security that would that would put them at risk? We can methods and tactics. Is that What is that? What? Our justice. Methods and methods and sources, methods and sources. I cannot reveal methods and sources. That’s well, it’s a pleasure being on the program. Thank you, Robert. Thank you. Put it. All right, we’ve got to have you glad to have you the retention point. We’re talking about retaining s o. We’re applying your your, uh, mostly corporate principles, but not exclusively. I know you don’t work with non-profits, but we want to apply this to monthly sustaining donors. So, um, give us, like, the overview of water. And we have, Of course, we have an hour together. So what? What? Where the, like, the main pressure point. So what could we like? Overviewing big picture be doing better with our monthly sustaining donors. And And I’ve had the pleasure of working with non-profits for twenty five years. And yes, a lot of what I’ve learned and applied has actually come from the for-profit world of membership. But you’re back in the day. All of this was non-profits, and what I found was that well, you know, backward was all hundred percent annual renewal. That you are first year renewal rate was always the load. You know, if we had kind of an average renewal rate of eighty five percent, then maybe the first year renewal rate would be fifty percent, and then subsequently would be ninety four, ninety eight percent for years, two, three, four, five, and so really kind of set out to figure out what the heck’s going on here. And, you know, eventually I just kind of I actually moved the finish line. So rather than congratulating ourselves on the back for grating a new member, we didn’t really count them as a member who we gave him all the benefits. And yeah, of course, we can’t have a member. But all the incentives, all the rewards were for renewal of the first year of the member rather than the first day they joined. So that now the game became What are we going to do over the first year of their membership to get that first renewal? Yeah, and by maximizing renewal and even, well, moving that first year renewal from fifty five or fifty percent upto fifty five or sixty percent. Now, you’ve increased your membership rates by ten percent or twenty percent. Yeah, yeah. So just by focusing on this one area, how are we going to onboarding are minu members? And get that renewal? You can increase your overall membership revenue by ten or twenty percent of straight off the bat and in the retention point, that’s really what we focus on, in particular with monthly members membership. You needn’t have less time you got You know, the first thirty days are really even the first thirty minutes to engage that member. Get them Mohr excited in over the next twenty nine days. Then they were the day they joined. Yeah, And you said the first thirty minutes even, and we’re gonna we’re gonna get to the member on ramp, Uh, all all and do all in due time, all in good time. All in good time. I’m going to send my pretty, but all in good time. Um so the so the the retention point. How would you How would you defend his title? The book. How would you define the retention point? What does What does that mean? Well, all of us have members that we couldn’t get rid of. Even if we want Teo there. They’re so excited. They are so engaged. There are top refers. They’re passionate about what we have to offer and they wanna volunteer and participate. Now, Roger Rabbit, let me ask you a question. Do you Do you know the book Zombie loyalists buy part? I have not heard. Okay, Well, it’s related. I thought of it several times. I was reading your book. He’s been on this ship while he was on the show. Once, and I’ve replayed it many times. The book’s title is Zombie Loyalists. The author is Peter Shankman, and he talks about the the people that are so committed to your brand that they are zombies. They’re zombies for your brand, and they will go out and do your marketing. Your PR. You’re advertising your social media for you. That’s how much they love your brand and his. So he’s in marketing and PR and his job. His His work is getting people so in love with your brand that they become zombies for zombie loyalists. He calls them. So it’s just it’s related. You may, you may be interested in. Listeners have heard him many times because, like I said, he’s been on treyz online once, like twenty, fourteen or fifteen, and I’ve played him every December or January since then. Anyway, I interrupted you, defining the retention point for us. I’m going to do that. I’m going to that often. So expect my point that they become that your zombie loyal okay, And how do you do that more often and you want to see, like where I got the idea was from Netflix, where you know, you know they have their streaming shows, and what they have found is that they have what they call a hooked episode. Which is, you know, for instance, were oranges new black. There are twelve episodes there about an hour long, so that’s a lot of lot of So yeah, but what they have identified is that the third episode, if somebody watches that seventy percent of the people who watch the third episode will finish the entire season. Yeah, that was really that was really interesting. Some on the same night, others, you know, over the course of the next couple of weeks. But yeah, that they they will go through, go through the end. And that’s what we want to do with your non-profit is figure out what that point is that they are so hooked and then accelerate. That gets into that point. And the same way that Netflix does, where he’s got a study plot, they study character development, figure out what makes the hooked episode work. We want to dissect how your non-profit work so that we could figure out that key place that gets folks hooked and engaged. Yeah, that was that. I found that very interesting that Netflix Hook hook episode. They know that for each different Siri’s, which which is which is the hook and right, And you’re you’re objective of the book is to accelerate that retention point. Like you said, you you want to see, like, seventy to eighty percent of members staying for life, right? And by the way, we just have, like, a minute or so before our first break. Yeah, absolutely. And And what I found is that that’s completely doable on DH. It’s really focused on status roll. Making it all about how you make your members feel about your membership rather than what you deliver. Yeah, Yeah. You know, that’s one of your one of your accelerator’s. Isn’t that one of the ten? No question. Yeah, Feelings are more important than content. Or so I’m paraphrasing it. Sorry, I don’t have I don’t I don’t bring the book in front because otherwise I’ll be tempted to quote, ask you to read from page sixty two so I don’t do that. But what do you accept? You have ten accelerators and one of them is that feelings? What feelings? Trump content or something? You say it. Please It’s not about what you deliver, but it’s about what you do ever. How it makes your members makes people feel right. All right, all right. We’re gonna come back. We got to take this first break pursuant. Their newest free book is the art of First Impressions. It’s about donorsearch. Hopefully, you’re going to be doing less acquisition. You’re going to need to do less acquisition with their monthly sustainers because you’re going to be keeping more of them. You still going to some acquisition? Always. But you’re not going to be so reliant on it. But for other parts of your fund-raising, you’d be multi-channel, right? You’re fund-raising for attracting new donors, making his smashing first impression. That’s where you want this e book. Ah, the art of first impressions. You’LL find it on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Pursuant. Remember the capital p for please? Okay, let’s go back to retain your subscribers. All right, um, you say that the, uh, relationship begins after the sale, would you Would you flush that out, please? Yes, Absolutely. The You know, a lot of times we think of, you know, a lot of organizations are focused on members after Mecca member acquisition. And, you know, when they get a new member, often they’re moving right on to the next one. And I’ve had conversations with multiple organizations are like, Yeah, we used to send out a member welcome kit. And then we stopped. We didn’t really see a benefit in it. And that is absolute killer, like there are other than they’re they’re ending the relationship once the person comes on board, right, that it’s like the end. Okay, we’re done with done with her. Let’s move to our next acquisition. Just like a series of one night stand. Yeah, like dating metaphors were not even calling them like way. They gave us their money, they suddenly participate. And then, boom, we move on to the next one, right? Forget about that relationship. Well, there’s money involved that those of the transactions I’m most familiar with in dating, but the money transfers, but I prefer not. I keep that in my therapy sessions. Yeah, yeah, So please don’t ask me any more questions about that now, So So go ahead. You know, there s so that they get the person, and then they move on to the next. But you say that’s antithetical to what you should be doing. Absolutely double down on the most of the time. Your customers are more real excited when they joined. They have this anticipation and then the kind of the excitement wanes over time. And what do you want instead, is the curtain to go up? He wants more excited and engaged about your organization thirty days after they joined, then the day they joined. And also your like your confirmation email that you son, as a result of them buying that will be the highest open rate of any email. Any message that you’LL ever son anyone. So why not make that all about your You remember your mission? How how that membership is going to help them feel, you know, some of the things that I’ve done with other organisations as well even make that email also inviting the member upgrade their level of contributions OK, that you can use just a small percentage take you up on it. It can totally transformed the economics of your new member funnel. Okay, you said a couple things there, which I have trouble remembering sometimes multiple subjects So one of them I want to touch on one that I want to touch on is that that’s the highest. That’s the most red thing that you’LL ever send. And the other is oh, asking, asking for a small upgrade. But then you got a straddle a fence of not having them feel that what they just did is insufficient for you. So let me take the first one and hopefully you can remember the second one to, um, there’s a good chance I’ll forget it. Um, what was the first one you see now? I forgot the first one. The first one was that the open races over? Yeah. Yeah, confirmation. I’ve worked with clients. Now I do. I do plan to giving fund-raising very different than the type of fund-raising that we’re talking about here. But I’ve seen you know, those thank you notes. Um, and they look like they look like tax receipts. You know, it’s s O. When I read that, I didn’t know that that was the most opened communication that you’LL ever send. But, I mean, I recognize that the clients were squandering an opportunity to be to have the person feel warm and and, um, Susan about the gift that they had just made. It should not be a tax receipt, but all the more if that’s the one thing that their most most likely to read. You know, don’t squander that opportunity on a by citing an internal revenue code section that justifies their charitable deduction. Well, and all the your relationships that involved money. When the person who receives the money calls the next day and says, Thank you, I appreciate you and what you’ve done has created a huge impact. Then there you’re going to help them feel good about spending money with you. Yeah, that’s one of the things you recommend for the for the on ramp, right? You say it could be a could be a call. Yeah, it certainly can be a call, But even if it’s on ly an email that that message you should be about confirming how brilliant that person wass on helping recognizing them for it. Okay, Right to the most most opened. Where is that? What you said is the most opened communication you’LL send. Yeah, you’re open. Rates on your confirmation email are higher than any other open rate. Very often. It’s like eighty percent open rate on that, you know, buyers, confirmation email. Okay, in-kind goodness, We’re going to get eighty percent of our people of recipients open it. Let’s make it good. Yeah, Don’t squander it. Right. Okay. Turns out I did remember the second thing, But thanks for potentially helping me out. How do you straddle? Asking for a little bit of an upgrade with, ah, not making the person feel that what they just committed to as a monthly sustainers is insufficient. And like the organization is not grateful. Well, I think the key is having your focus on the member and the emotional reasons the member gave in the first place and helping them get more of that. There’s nobody who’s children went hungry last night is becoming your member today. Yeah, this is a luxury pitches that’s made because of the feelings that it creates and, you know, just the same way that Louis Vuitton purses double the cost of a coach first. It’s not because Louie Baton first has more pockets or higher quality leather. It’s all about how that first makes the person who carries that feel about themselves with when they when they have it. And that’s the same, which is tragic. But we’LL talk about that tragic and tragic and shallow, but I’m not going opine on that. Well, it’s, but it’s human nature. You know who you are. What status rolls is something that’s very impolitely talk about. But it’s critical to understand and put in the forefront in particular for non-profits, because the reason people join you’re become a member of your charity versus becoming just a normal donorsearch are a member of your museum versus a donor is because you have a special member line and they’re treated differently. And so now they get the status improvement of being able to go in the short line versus waiting long. Or they’LL become a donor because because they want their name on a plaque or a bigger plan, or they want they want a table instead of buying a ticket because they want not certainly they want to support you. You, But more than that, if they want their friends to see them supporting you and they want to be ableto Oh, I have a table at this benefit. Would you like to come? You know, having those opportunities to demonstrate there that they that there’s so successful that they can contribute money to an organization like yours and that that makes them a better and more important person. That’s where the reasons why people are donating and it’s crucial that we don’t feel embarrassed about talking about Yeah, that’s interesting. You know, it is good to talk about it. It’s gets to ego and self image, gets to the psychosocial underbelly of charitable donations. Okay, and and the real drivers of it, you go back to your question, you know, how do we make them feel good about the contribution that they’ve made while also giving them the opportunity to contribute more? It’s Hey, a lot of a lot of members who joined really enjoy that to become part of the Gold Club or, you know, this is You know, if you’d like more information about that, you can click here it just some sort of subtle, uh, to show that there is another status, a level of status and recognition within the club of yours, the same way that when somebody buys a brand new Harley Davidson, the other usually you know, they they want to They also want the leather and they want the, you know, upgrade because you know, the people within that social circle recognized that the motorcycle that’s been customized with chrome or a special paint job on the gas tank is, you know, Mohr of that social circle, then somebody who hasn’t bothered to do that, you know, we’re just simply giving them that opportunity. Become Mohr of our kruckel. Harley Davidson is one of the examples you use as a as a luxury brand in the book. Yeah, it had been a client is they’ve been a client of mine since two thousand three that Harley Davidson dealers of Florida. And it’s that when somebody buys a hardly, if you know there’s things are priced and a more expensive than any other motorcycle you could buy. And yet they represent fifty percent of all sales within their category. There’s not another luxury brands that represents fifty percent of the market share, and you’re not buying a Harley because it transports you better that a Honda, it doesn’t go any faster. They’re not Harley on ly lane. I mean, there’s no practical reason why it would be, you know, deserving of the increased premium and price. It’s all about how it makes the person who ride that, how it makes them feel about themselves. And that’s the same with your non-profit. One of your accelerators is it’s always about them. And another one is Your value is the feelings you deliver. Not the stuff that that’s the one you mentioned earlier, but yeah, it’s it’s ah, it’s about the feeling. Okay, I got you. All right? Uh, yeah. Good. Something want to air? Do you want me to move us along? Well, And then the only other thing with that kind of goes along with that is how do we change the way they feel about themselves? You know, we talk a little bit about transformations and you are we able, you know, like a Harley Rider. You go. You can go from somebody who is not recognized by anybody that, you know, They kind of feel obscure, mean. All of us feel like we’re smarter than most people in particular. Utah, I mean, deservedly so. Why don’t just feel it? I know it. I mean, it’s object, its objectivity Elf out there better than average. It’s not just my feeling its objective fact sametz provable. We also nobody’s. Isn’t it true that were overlooked that were disrespecting? We feel that others aren’t giving us the thehe tension that we that we should be receiving. And, you know, with a Harley Rider, you could go from being this, you know, mechanic, that nobody pays attention to or a junior lawyer that, you know, nobody likes to know are some government bureaucrats. And you walk out of that Harley dealership, you ride your motorcycle and you got your leather on. And now all the sites in Europe a bad dude, right? And people were afraid of you, okay? And you they have been able to transform themselves, you know, almost like a Clark Kent Superman in a phone booth. They could go into Aah! Harley dealerships and come out this amazing with this amazing self image. And those transformations are what we want to be able to deliver within our organization to increase retention. So let’s bring that back to non-profit. So how do you create that kind of transformation when you know the person is not donning a suit or, you know, riding a bike? But, you know, they’re supporting charitable work. Whether it’s a local, why or it’s saving whales or hyre children or feeding the hungry. You know, how do you create that transformation when it’s it’s services that you’re providing toe other other parties? Sure. Well, I had the pleasure on honor of working with charity water for a little bit last year, and they work with. They provide water and wells to of people in Africa. And one of the things that we found in the year that they had long since found in the research is that it’s their offer allowed. Younger people, in particular their their demographic, attract millennials more than anybody. But it helped that person feel like they were doing something important for somebody that that couldn’t, you know, that couldn’t take care of themselves, gave them this feeling that they were connected to the world and that they were contributing to making the world a better place. And so they really were there. Those donors were really were kind of going through the Clark can’t phone Booth Superman sort of feeling where your charity water was, giving them the opportunity to be part of this mission to change the world that everybody deserves clean water and that there’s six million people that don’t have it. And you could be part of, uh, that’s something a solution. And so it’s making your charity and what you deliver helping helping them be part of this mission and enabling the feel amazing because they do that you use charity water in the book as an example of the the relationship after the sale. Um, talk about the one of the things that is in that section is the members save sequence. What is that? So when there’s several technical things that that for-profit publishers, I know how to do very well that non-profits are really pretty oblivious to and, for instance, to talk. If you have spotify and you go to cancel it, they’re going to give you the opportunity to continue your membership, maybe for a lower price or some other term, you know. And a lot of times when you go to cancel some sort of description, you’re given the opportunity to continue to subscribe, either maybe at a lower level or or different terms. Maybe instead of paying all for the whole year one time, maybe you can spread out payment or Maybe they’ll encourage you with some other special bonus that you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. Um, and there but many non-profits there don’t even attempt. And what you’LL find is that just by having a staged sequence that you’LL improve your results that a percent a significant percentage of your members will not cancel after all. And you’LL be able to save them. And by tweaking that over time, testing what works, Maybe split testing a couple of options. You’LL find that if you’ve got donors at the one hundred dollars a month level and they go to council offering them the opportunity to get status and continue to be engaged at the fifty dollar level now, it will generate for you six hundred dollars this next twelve months that you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise had you not made that, David. That’s excellent. Excellent. Robert, I love I love the lessons from the from the corporate side. That’s that’s awesome. The members safe sequence. All right, we’ve got to take our We gotta take our second break. It says that you drink a lot of water. You okay? Your eyes, Your throat. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sounds like you were taking a lot of drinks. Are you calling from an airport? I forgot you drink a lot. Okay. I do to, uh were you calling from an airport? Actually, no, I I happen to be. I made it home. I didn’t know I was going to be on the road, but I’m home today. Okay? Okay. Cool. And where is home in Florida? Tallahassee, Florida. Tallahassee, Capital State Capital. Okay. All right. I’ll get Luli. We gotta take this break. Weinger CPAs there? CPS, for goodness sake. Certified public accountants. Do you need one? You need a new one. Talk to eat. Which tomb? He runs their non-profit practice. He’s been a guest on the show. He’s a good guy. He’s not a hard sell. Ir um he’s hasn’t got a pushy bone in his smallish body. He’s not a huge guy, but he’s not a pushy guy. That’s the point. Um, he’s warm and he’ll just tell you. You know, you tell him what you need, and he will tell you whether, uh, Wagner is gonna be able to help you. All right. Wagner. CPS weinger cpas dot com Now, time for Tony’s Take two. I’ve got to send my thanks to Act blue and and ten, which used to be the non-profit Technology Network. But they’re nothing non-profit technology Network anymore that just end ten and t e n. That’s it in ten period. The conference last week. Twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference Just wonderful. The speakers I interviewed thirty four different panels of speakers from one to four. So or what? No, actually want One of them was five. So people have to share mikes So you’ll be hearing these interviews over the many coming months. The speakers are smart, you know, the topics so diverse from website redesigned to diversity to managing your tech tech teams even And then oh are outsourced If if If you don’t have in internal Tech team just lots of lots of different subjects As you can imagine over thirty four different conversations and act blue, of course, they were our premier sponsor At the twenty nineteen non-profit Technology Conference. We shared a booth together. Guests would sit for an interview and then have a chat with AC blew. It was seamless. We were all in this oversized booth together. It was wonderful. We recorded drawing of ah, giveaway that act looted for on site on site training. It was wonderful partnerships. I’m grateful very much Teo ActBlue for sponsoring non-profit radio at the non-profit Technology Conference and on grateful to intend for putting on a terrific conference two and a half days last week. You can see my gratitude video at tony martignetti dot com and you watch that you’LL see me trying to find the end ten office. Good luck tryingto find that, um and, uh, that’s what we got. So let’s go back to Robert’s crowbar and retain your subscribers. Um, all right, so we were We’ve been We’ve been hitting around the on ramp and I love that member safe sequence. I know because because that’s what I’ve heard. In fact, one of the interviews I did it the non-profit Technology Conference was about increasing your your sustainers base and reducing that churn rate. Um, the credit card expiration or the credit card compromise. That’s ah, that’s a tough spot for for non-profits toe overcome. The when the where the cut credit card fail. Yeah, with card fails because it’s been hacked or or it expires. You know, that’s a It’s a moment where people questioned I don’t do it. Should I keep this up or not? But your your argument is they can be kept up. And a lot of that comes from the from the on ramp. But not exclusively, but not exclusively. Well, it’s kind of crazy. I have not found any profession other than non-profits where you have to be an expert in so many different discipline. I was just thinking about it when you were talking about the technology conference and as a non-profit, You’ve got to be on top of technology. You’ve got to be on top of accounting and internal controls and your bordered and keeping them happy and all of this marketing stuff. And on top of that, you’ve got it actually do the mission of the non-profit. And I don’t know another profession that could be possibly more challenging than running a non-profits and along with that, with the credit card. This is one of the areas when you do go to monthly billing. One of the things that come along with that is that credit cards expire. There are people, they are victims of fraud. And so they have to change their card number and the middle of the you know when when they haven’t land, too. And you’LL have a good five to seven percent of your transactions that will fail each month, and they need to be tracked down. Sometimes they reach our area. You recharged, attempt well, enable it to go through. It’s not always because the credit card doesn’t have money on it, you know, available credit. It could just be the issue in card. You know, the issuing card bank, for whatever reason, just declined it. Once you can retry it and it will go through. So it’s it does need some administrative oversight in order to make sure that the car goes through now Theninety. You know, even if you had seven percent of these things failing, getting ninety three percent of the revenue every month would be worth it. But tracking down the seven percent is a very lucrative because every one of those is in just one month no contribution but a sequence of contributions on the future. Yes, having a automated follow-up sequence of emails having a, uh, call out to those members I even send. Recommend sending something in the mail to those members but more than anything is having a relationship, because if your power got shut off today, then you’re going to your orders. You got an email today that you know your cable TV is going to be shut off because we don’t have your your credit card or your Internet is going to be shut off because we don’t have your credit card. Correct. You know that that call’s gonna get returned and that credit card is going to be updated. And so you want to have a relationship with your member where you feel justice essential as their Internet provider and got all about the relationship. Let’s talk about that relationship. One of your accelerator’s I mentioned it earlier is it’s, you know there’s ten accelerators. We’re not gonna have time to talk about all of them, so you just got to get the book. You just got to get the book called Attention Point because we’re just going toe. We’re going Dutch on a few of them so that in terms of that relationship, talk about your accelerator, it’s always about them. I one of the great opportunities that I like my job so easy doing the turnaround Because almost every time the non-profit, or even the for-profit membership program focuses on their benefits and what they’re delivering to the member. And there’s these long, you know. Either they believe it’s short copy is important, and there’s all these bullet points about what they deliver. Or there’s a paragraph about what they deliver, and it’s always about them. And I could tell you, Tony, I promise you you are. None of your listeners woke up this morning going, Oh my goodness, I hope I get an e mail today of and none of your donors woke up today going Man, I hope I get an email. I want to find somebody I could donate to that will send me an email of an email newsletter every month. That sounds like they don’t want your email newsletter. What a woman is the feeling that they’LL get because they’re engaged and they’re participating and they’re part of this movie part of your movement, and you want to make those benefits instead of talking about what they are. Talk about how those benefits will impact your members of life. Flip the benefit. Flip what you’re describing. Instead of talking about what you deliver, talk about how your members life will improve or change because they’re getting that benefit well, So how does the life changes? Suppose you’re supporting your local. Why Y m c a Y W c A what? Er, why? M. H a. I don’t want Teo bi partisan. Whatever. You know, your local wine. Let’s keep it near you. Supporting your local Why? How does how does doing that change your life? So are they are they? They’re simply donating for the kids that are participating in the organization’s Let’s just say it’s general operating support I’m giving. I’m giving fifty bucks a month. So to my to my local, why for general support and the the mission of the why they have Yeah, they have after school programs for children. They have a big fitness center. They have classes in yoga. They have they have chair yoga for seniors. Um, that’s ah, that seems like an overview of a wide. That’s all I can think of so you could be part of the movement in child obesity by supporting the gymnasium that gives children a place to exercise after school that you can help get kids more active and away from their tablets by giving them a program where they can interact and learned how to learn. You know, learn howto have sportsmanship, you can help senior you’LL be you’ll be in power and seniors by supporting this was, rather than talking about the seniors program or talking about the after school program and instead you flip it into what? That donor as a result of that program. Okay, you will help our chilled our communities. Children, you will help. Our seniors will be in your community. Yeah, our your community. Okay. Or our our Yeah, not mine. Yeah. Now, right, Right, right. Exactly. Your I’ve heard your is ours. And yours. Yours especially. Very good for copy. Help your community help your help. The seniors in your community be more fit and flexible because the because they come to chair yoga and help the children the way you were describing. All right, we gotta take another guy to take another break. Robert. Excuse me. Hold on. Tell us you want fifty percent of the fee. When cos you refer process their credit card transactions with Tell us all these small fees add up these like two, three, four percent fees. It adds up and you get half of them. And that is the long tail of passive revenue for your organization. It just comes once you make these company referrals. Teo to tell us the explainer video is that tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us on the Tell Us landing page, Watch it, have the company’s watch it and then ask if they would consider switching to make money for your organization. Tony dahna may slash Tony Tell us we got to do a live listener, love and, uh, and there are a lot of them from AA Seattle, Washington and Oakland, California to Tampa, Florida and New Bern, North Carolina. And it’s Tampa. It’s not Tallahassee, so we know that’s That’s not Robert. Awesome Live. Listen, love, live love to you. And, uh, no point in leaving out Adelanto California. Why would I do that? I wouldn’t I wouldn’t While do I leave out Clifton, New Jersey Why would I not send the love the Clifton, New Jersey? I wouldn’t not send it, which means I would so live love After Clifton, New Jersey and also out Tio Adam latto, California forya. Let’s go abroad to Istanbul, Turkey. Turkey. My God, my voice is cracking like a fourteen year old. Every everything. Every other syllable now live love out to Istanbul and also young San Korea. Anya haserot comes a ham. Nida Ah, who else’s abroad are? Finland is abroad. I’m sorry. We can’t see your city in Finland. We know that it’s not a monolithic country, but we just cannot see it. Sorry. Oh also Seoul. Seoul, South Korea is with us on your haserot and comes a ham. Nida Teo to Seoul. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. That’s that. I think that’s a new one. Live love out to Riyadh, Moscow, Russia. Live love their Tokyo, Japan. That’s a common one. So glad, so glad you’re so loyal in Tokyo. I could eat. You are thank you for the live love for the live listening and the love goes out and the podcast pleasantries, Of course, to the vast majority of our audience. That’s where the over thirteen thousand listeners are listening and on their devices on their time. That’s the beauty of podcasts. Take it. Draw it in. Breathe it in. Listen in pleasantries to our podcast listeners so grateful that you are with us. Let’s go back. Teo. Robert, Scrub your name. Uh, your name. I want to make it clear your name rhymes with Strobe s k r o B. I want to make sure I spell it so people don’t think it’s s k r o b e or something s k r o b. You’ve got to get the book. You gotta know how to spell his name. It helps. You probably could get it without that. But you want to have a spell. His name s K R O B. Robert. First name, no middle initial. You’re you’re an M I? Well, I do have a middle initial that I didn’t use it on the book and my name. Why Mei Mei great grandfather came over from Poland and nameless crow be alone. Oh, that’s a good one. That one. Funny, they shortened scrubby pulawski. Oh, that’s a great one. It’s not. It’s not a great thing that it’s not a great stage name and will take up the whole cover of your of your book, but that’s that’s a great name? Scrabulous Key. I love that one. That’s good. That’s awesome. Scrub pulawski. Um, So, uh, where were we? Let’s see. Uh oh, yeah, we were talking about Yes, it’s always about them. And what the feelings are you you’re You’re very concerned about the feelings that we give to our donors so that when these obstacles do come out, do arise there easily surmounted, like the expiration of the credit card or something like that. You say that you’LL never out Mark you’LL never out membership market your churn rate That growth comes from new member retention, not new member acquisition. Amplify that for us. You know, I think that it goes back to all the challenges that you have running a non-profit. You kind of make sure that the things you do have as high an impact as possible. And if you’re going to spend a couple of hours doing something that that couple of ours is best in, invested as it possibly can be. And what I actually do have plenty of clients that we focus on member acquisition. And that’s their issue and challenge. And the acquisition problem is always fixed by improving the deliverer ble that thie organisation is sending and might seem like. Oh, well, that’s really a retention thing, but you know, they don’t really care about what we deliver until after they’ve already joined, and we can take our chances then. But by improving the deliverer ble and focusing on the feeling that we get in e-giving that premium experience so that you know, they really feel better about you’re participating too. Makesem have that kind of Superman experience that that also helps us improve our our conversion rate on our on our appeal and also increased the value of those conversion rates. Where because we understand that this is a status sale and we are emphasizing the status rape within each donor level, we find that we’re able to improve that initial transaction size as well as birds. When you kind of the side benefit is when you do focus on retention, you’re also improving your act with another one of your accelerators is seems related to what you’re saying. Every member contact is a sales communication. And you know the well I hope you agree with that. You wrote it. You know, you don’t quit your quibbling. Your quibbling with geever accelerated isn’t done there. Then you’LL got nine left. You know you like pony. Preach it. Okay. You were just I am. So of course, just affirming my my enthusiasm for it. You’re not quibbling with your own accelerate because then you’re down to nine and we gotta rip out, like, a dozen pages in a book. Okay, so every member contact is a sales communication that that one struck me too. When I was thinking of what I said earlier about thie, the thank you message that looks like, you know, citing the Internal Revenue code and justifying your charitable deduction. We got a couple of minutes before we take another break. Talk about that. That that one, that every member of every member contact is a sales communication. You know, it happens not only there and the administrative e mails and communication, but even in your monthly newsletters and the things that you are delivering to your members of ongoing basis. That was really were also one of the key places that charity water had questions because they had for many years grew because of their donor program that was focused on creating one time transactions. And now, all of a sudden they had the membership that they need to communicate with their members on an ongoing basis. We’re trying to figure out what we send our members every month that they will love and appreciate, and by focusing on understanding that every monthly quote newsletter is really a sales communication that helped us back into what really needed to be there. Well, I helped them dissect what there marketing messages were for their donors. You know, we created this list and it turned out there were a thing and their highest performing member acquisition, marketing pieces. And then we used that less of a thing that needed to be in every single ongoing communication that they were sending and when, you know, at first they were like, No, we already do that. But then when we actually broken back out, it compared. They had no more than two or three of those message point and any one of their emails or videos or anything like that that they had that they were sending out. So bye bye. Recognizing that that monthly email or those other ongoing communications really our sales messages, it helps you drafted so that each one of those is more effective and increasing the excitement in the organization. So you got to know what it is that moves people to support you and then keep hitting those home time after time in a a sales communication. All right, Robert, we gotta take our last break text to give Diversify your revenue by adding mobile giving right. You want the multi multi-channel diverse this mobile giving contrary to popular belief not only for disasters, not only for small dollar donations, you can build relationships through text. What is it? What is Robert saying? It’s about the relationship. You can do it through texting. You doing it with family and friends all the time, right? Do it with your donors. Ah, text to give Has a five part email. Many course. You’re gonna get five short emails. One a day, Five days. And it will dispel myths and explain how to get started. The way to get into that email. Many course text End PR. That’s November, Papa. Romeo to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Remember, I used to be in the Air Force. I got picked up that awful Bravo, Charlie Delta Echo Foxtrot Golf Hotel India Juliet Kilo, Lima Mike November Oscar Papa Quebec Romeo Sierra Tango uniform Victor Whiskey X ray Yankee Zulu. That’s where this right. Pick that up. Okay, we’ve got several more minutes for retained Your subscribers. Um So let’s see. What else? What else could we talk about? You got some. Let’s talk to explicitly about Thea Member, the member on ramp. Um, the dream, the belief. The goal. Let’s let’s apply that stuff to non-profits, please. Yeah, let’s get a drink of water. There you take and you take a drink of water every time. Every time. Right before you talk, you drink. I hope that’s not vodka, is it? Or if it is, If it is, don’t tell your problem. I just don’t want to know. Now, why would you hold yourself together pretty well after fifty minutes? If that’s if that’s a straight up vodka. I mean, I wouldn’t know. So you’re doing a good job? Yes. They talk about the on ramp to the belief, the goal the, um and the dream. Yeah. So does. Most of the time we’re talking about ourselves and but with the with the with the materials that you’re delivering to your members, you really want to make them about the outcome that you are delivering. And the whatever the message wass the big promise that you had in your appeal that you’re showing them that mission and showing them you know what life was going to be like And the problems that would be solved because of your organization when you were I merely after they become your member, you want to affirm that and come right back with more of the same kind of take it up to the next level. And because really, now you’ve identified this person as somebody who is particularly interested in this type of information. Yeah, and so often we think, Well, they just heard that they won’t want to hear it again. Well, let’s give them different case studies, different stories that have a similar message. Next, why should they be? Part of this organization is very easy to think. Yeah, that’s important. I believe in it and somebody should be doing. But, you know, they don’t necessarily feel that personal passion behind it themselves. And it’s important to make it clear why they must be part of your movement. And why now is not only the right time for your movement, but why Now is the right time for them to participate in this part of their life. And certainly if you have some sort of, yeah, you know, progress where you’re helping them, you actually do something, you know, maybe, you know, part of the membership is they get some sort of benefit that they’re going to be taking action with, then giving them a goal. And you know and for for me. You know, I lost a good fifty pounds of about twelve years ago by joining Weight Watchers. I walked in, I was two hundred thirty seven pounds, and they said, Hey, you know, we think that we recommend that you set a goal of losing ten percent of your body weight over the first eight weeks. For you. That would be twenty three town. Uh, you know, buy, Forget the date. You know, by this date, how does that feel? Okay, that feels good. And so it gave me It wasn’t everything I needed to lose, but it was achievable Goal that felt good. That allowed me to make the changes I needed in order to lose weight. And anytime you’re trying to get somebody to take action, they could be quickly become overwhelmed by everything that they need to do. And if you are simply giving them an incremental goal, it’s going to help them get started and generate good big results. Alright, then all Robin wants to rob it and lock all the back doors and show them that this is the only true path. Okay, we’ve got to leave it there. Regrettably, that’s Ah, that’s hard time. You just got to get the book because there’s so much more that we didn’t get a chance to talk about about the onramp and the relationship building. You gotta look. You’ve got to take a critical look at each step of your monthly sustainers program. The book is retention point. He is Robert Scrub. He’s at Robert’s Crowbar and Robert’s group dot com. Thank you so much, Robert. I enjoy Thank you so much in honor to be on your program. Thank you for insiders. Robert and I are going to talk about the gift with subscription for New Member acquisition. So to be a non-profit radio insider to get exclusive access to these five minute insider videos that I do with guests, go to tony martignetti dot com and click. What else would you cook? Insider alerts. Next week we’re going to kick off our nineteen and T C coverage. I don’t know which one. It’s going to be one of the thirty four. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, Find it on tony martignetti dot com responded by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash Pursuant. Capital P Why Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers When you’re cps dot com by Telus Credit Card and payment Processing Your Passive Revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made Easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine Our creative producers Clan Meyerhoff Sam Lee Woods is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this cool music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that information, Scotty. It’s been a while since I got that from you with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. You’re listening to the Talking alternative network e-giving. You are listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in something potentially ater. Tune in every Tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show yawned potential Live life your way on talk radio dot N Y c Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business. Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested? 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