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Nonprofit Radio for August 11, 2017: Master Google AdWords & Master Your Decision Making

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Jason Shim & Mark Hallman: Master Google AdWords

With Jason Shim & Mark Hallman at 16NTC

Google has $10,000 of free advertising for you each month. Are you taking advantage? Learn about the program and how to plan your campaign. Also find the best search terms to bid on and stay on track as AdWords evolves. At the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference I talked to Jason Shim at Pathways to Education Canada, and Mark Hallman of Evergreen Digital Marketing. (Originally aired August 12, 2016)

 

Karin Hedetniemi & Jayme Nelson: Master Your Decision Making

Karin Hedetniemi & Jayme Nelson at 16NTC

You make hundreds of decisions a day: some simple and some complex. What’s the science and art behind making good ones? You’ll learn how to pare down choices and ask yourself good questions. Karin Hedetniemi and Jayme Nelson are from the Inside Education Society of Alberta. This is also from 16NTC and the August 12, 2016 show. It’s 16NTC Canada Day!

 

 

 


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Durney hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with trapani mitosis if you infected me with the idea that you missed today’s show master google adwords google has ten thousand dollars of free advertising for you each month. Are you taking advantage? Learn about the program and how to plan your campaign also find the best search terms to bid on and stay on track as adwords evolves the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference i talked to jason shim at pathways to education canada and mark coleman of evergreen digital marketing. This originally aired august twelfth twenty sixteen and master your decision making you make hundreds of decisions a day, some simple, some complex what’s the science and art behind making good ones. You’ll learn how to pare down choices and ask yourself good questions. Karen headed niimi and jamie nelson are from the inside education society of alberta. Karen is director of business in human resources, and jamie is an educator. This is also from sixteen ntc it’s ntcdinosaur day on non-profit radio canada master day. Lots of mastering going on on tony steak, too solitude, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here’s master google adwords welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen auntie si the non-profit technology conference. We’re also part of ntcdinosaur say, shins, we’re in san jose, california, at the convention center on day three of the conference. My guests now are jason shim and mark holman will meet them very shortly first have to shout out today this this interview’s not just one a day, but one interview swag item which is a brand dahna and it’s from ah on good from on good many ways to wear it and also ah ah yo, yo alighted yo yo which we don’t have enough not brought enough frame i can’t demonstrate my yo go pray yo, yo prowess i used to be able to walk the dog doo around the world, you know, rocket out horizontal butt now it was not to take my word for it that i can still do it, so this joins our swag pile. All right, jason shevawn jason is associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education in canada. Thank you. Very welcome back, jason. Thank you. Believe it was two years ago. It ntcdinosaur good memory and more. Coleman is president of evergreen digital marketing. Mark, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. My pleasure. All right, gents, we’re talking about how to be a google adwords superhero waken rock this now let’s talk first about the ten thousand dollars per month program for non-profits who who knows this program best. Is it free? How do we where we find it? What is this? Who knows the best? Go ahead. Yeah. Basically it’s ten thousand dollars of in-kind advertising given by google every month. It’s rule over grantspace oh, there’s there’s no limit to it as long as you keep me in the grant requirements and basically it’s in-kind so the little adds it show up on the top the google search results and that’s what you get so it’s a great program be part of. Okay, where can we find info for people who’ve never heard of this before? Google’s website is, i believe it’s google dot com slash non-profits or for canada’s, google dot cn non-profits okay, and you get ten thousand dollars a month? Yeah, a month free. Edwards yeah, free. Albert is not a cash it’s non-cash granted in-kind advertising, but every month limited to three hundred twenty nine dollars per day. But every month on going, as long as you meet the program requirements, there is no expiration date. Okay, did you find it very hard to qualify if you’re i mean, if you’re in the u s and your five o one c three or if you’re in canada and you have the wherever the equivalent designation is, um, you’re a bona fide non-profit is that about all it takes are very much if you meet the requirements for being a registered charity, then you’re pretty much good to go. Okay, well, that’s outstanding, alright, i’m not sure how widely known that is, but it is now because everybody listens to the show. If they’re not, then they do. They ignored at their peril because then i don’t know. All right? Well, let’s, talk about some campaigning. Where should we start with our google now? We’ve got three hundred eighty nine dollars, a day forever where should we start our campaign? So i think that one of the first things to start off with is really identifying, you know what your organization’s your mission is, and then how you can align some of those add words to to align with, you know, with that that mission. So for example, for pathways to education canada, you know, our mandate is to help high school students that they’re living in low income communities to graduate from high school. So anyone searching for any topics that are related to, you know, dropout prevention or helping the high school students day in school or people that are living in communities that we serve, you know, whenever they’re searching for nothing’s, really to education and drop you? No, we make sure that we sort of an ad, so, you know, they confined our resources more easily and that we can get access to nothing’s like tutoring and mentoring and, you know, access to scholarships and things like that, so it really helps connect people with the resource is out in the community. Yeah, how do we think broadly about what keywords people might be searching for him and you know, i’m sure every organization could name half a dozen off the top of their head, but how do we go beyond that? Maybe listening on twitter? I don’t know. You tell me, how did it go beyond what it comes to it comes to mind immediately. I think it’s, you can start with a sort of ah thought experiment and just trying to get into that the heads of other people and really, you know, using your, you know, just general empathy. So when when you, for example, mark and i, we used to live in a way, we’re sort of used to work together in kitchen waterloo at a place called cries in family counseling services. And what we did was we were trying tio create ad campaigns to target people who are looking for things that couples counseling. Nothing is the market for key. Which couples counseling. You know, the bid rate is quite high, you know, for it. And then when you think about it, you know, by the times a couple realizes they need couples counseling. You know, you may have to pay more than what you have for those kind of words. You rewind it. You know, a month, six months prior. You know what? What kind of things might that couple be going through? And, you know, trying we want it that way. So the kind of things maybe bidding for it’s, like, you know, i’m having challenges, you know, communication with i suppose, you know, how do you resolve money issues? Fundamental difference of opinion about children. You know, things like that that, you know, you krauz you at the end of the path, you know, but for people who would require couples counseling you how to get to them a little bit earlier to connect them with the organization. So really, it’s just a lot of service sitting there and thinking, oh, i love that idea of thinking ahead because you actually beat the competition that is paying the higher price for couples. You know, for that phrase couples counseling, absolutely relationship counselling you can get. You can beat the competition if you’re thinking a couple of months earlier. What are they talking about? Like money? Children finance center? Yeah. Cool. On another example, i can provide and american and speak to this. Ah, as well. Let’s, when we part of the service that were offered was credit counseling, and the thing is, like payday loan places like they’re they’re willing to bid up to, like fifteen dollars per click and the google lad words krauz is limited to two dollars per click maximum. Okay, so you really have to be extremely creative when you’re thinking about, you know, for some of those services where you also, you know, essentially competing against for-profit right on do you know, how can you think about, you know, okay, so for people that are running into credit issues down the road, you know, what might have looked like six months prior? And, you know, maybe, you know, people are searching for, you know, troubles making their bills or looking for, you know, initial, you know, information about me, you know, loan consolidation or things like that, you know, before they get into that critical, you know, the moment where you know, they’re they’re living on sort of back to back loans and yeah, so it’s just a lot of thinking and but one of the greatest tips that i think we received when we first discovered head where it’s at it’s from the ultimate guide to adwords by perry marshall you know, way highly recommend that book through the ultimate guide to edwards yeah, it’s called okay. And if one of them was read cosmo magazine and, you know, i think cosmo magazine provides a lot of lessons around, you know that the way that it cost one magazine covers designed, you know, it’s it’s designed to entice, you know, people that are going through a shopping check out to pick up a copy immediately, and i mean, it’s been the best selling women’s back-up dean since nineteen seventy to know so you know, they really done that in the print industry on the transits quite well into design in-kind adwords campaigns as well, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it, tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna oppcoll is pathways to education canada using google edwards ten thousand dollar month program? Yeah, yeah, ok, and mark, you have other clients that are as well, successfully, yeah, a number a number and you’re going with jason’s saying as well to part of the big part of adwords is trying to think of you know how how our people need our programs and services are looking for us if you’re doing banner ads or magazine ads to to kind of show what your your services are in google search is very specific, you can’t think of what our people looking for it so how to use the wise all the questions for help versus the opportunity of having made a scene at where you can put a big, you know, big, full page description of what your services are. This is really an opportunity for people who are actively searching for your programs and services and bring them right back to website. So it’s a really important program tohave from non-profits okay, after we’ve set on decided on a set of add words, phrases that we can afford to bid on how do we? I’m thinking next stage is monitoring. Our our results day today is that if i skipped anything well, there’s there’s a process there’s the whole setup piece, which is your campaigns, i groups keywords creating your ads. But one side nuts and bolts piece of it is done gather it is the moderate peace and add words and google analytics are fantastic for that they show you clicked the rates that should you conversion rates if you have that set up impressions and something, and really manage actively and make wise decisions on a short term basis. And that’s what actually drew me, tio adwords and that grants program originally was the fact that i came from a auto background. We have the auto trader, which is it’s, a paper magazine, and anatoli, you’re hoping to see people come in and say, i came here because i read your magazine without words, jason first showing the dashboard the first day i’m like, okay, we can actually see that accent or people clicked this ad in this time frame. It went back to our website and took actions, so get the monitoring in the analytics part of is a really big piece it’s important? Okay, yeah, jason won’t you talk about this more? Yeah, what’s really great is that you can really make data driven kind of decisions, which is, you know, one of the hallmarks of working in digital, an example i would give us, you know, we we had run a campaign to get supporters to donate their air miles to our organization, and we worked off the assumption that, you know, people want to give their, you know, their airline miles, you know, the goodness of their hearts because, you know, you know, but what? We quickly realized that, you know, the think the ad copy was something along the lines of, like, hey, you know, i don’t need your airline miles to ah, charity focused on youth and, you know, the click to rates on that were abysmal, like they weren’t fantastic people kapin verdict, so we, you know, we sat down and went back and thought about it, and the ad copy that did perform better was, hey, i don’t have enough miles teo to go on a trip, you know, donate them to our charity instead, which reflected the kind of reality that some people face when you realize that you need like, maybe ten or fifteen thousand miles you wanna trip in just a thousand? Yeah. Dahna and they just want to, you know, do something good with it and, you know, because they can’t go anyway and that one converted three times better and it’s amazing to people to get, get the metrics around and really support some of those hypotheses around. You know how our people thinking, how are they behaving? And you can really test those out. And conversely, you know, sometimes you know the hypotheses that you come up, you know, fall completely flat as well. But it’s, you can always go back to the data rather than relying on some of these, you know, anecdotal, you know, kind of gut feelings. You can still have toast, got feelings, but you consistently validating them over and over again with the data, which makes us think, edwards, you know, one of most compelling platform’s teo, really experiment and run campaigns. Mark, you mentioned something. I want to die aggress to an add grants. You said adwords and add grants what’s with the ad grantspace program. Yeah, granted, we’re actually talking here for non-profits adwords is a platform. That google has five times in that sort of business is you and you pay for ads today, but i grantspace the non-profit program that’s just ten thousand dollars a month. Okay, exactly. Right. Keeping keeping a straight. All right. Okay. Well, all right. So now we can monitor results like day to day, right? I mean, we and at the end of a week, we can see one phrase, one word is performing quite well. Another is not so weii stop bidding on the on the underperformers that basically what what we do? Yeah, basically straight a be testing and if one odds working other ones not if it’s we’re talking incremental increases. Here is what we’re talking about. One point five click through rate versus the one point seven or two point three it’s not always an eighty twenty of this huge disparity. Okay, but over time, you can make these incremental increases and really improve your presence, and we’ll set up typically set up two ads per at group abila play them out like jason mention. We make assumptions about what’s going to work, and we’ll quickly learned that it does or it doesn’t, and they get to go on, we’ll pause the want ad, create new adam, obviously reset the process and move forward. So kind of a fun game that i have with my summer intern. So we get a summer intern every summer, and what i do is i challenge them to a competition, so every week will come up with an ad and you’ll see what the results are. And then we face off every week, so the lower performing at gets paused. And then we were both trying to create a better one every week. So, you know, by the end of the summer, you sort of have this, like, hunger games, you know, style of creation. You know, only the strongest survives the best click through and the best results and conversions. Okay, all right. Pathways, education canada benefits. All right, they’re the winners. All right, do-it-yourself time together. What? Let’s? See what else? You, uh, campaign what else can we say about a campaign but the ongoing but i think waken speak a bit to the google grantspace oh, program. So if you max oh, it’s, your ten thousand dollar grant does there’s a few of our requirements in there. You max out your the ten thousand dollar grant for two months out of the prior six months, a cz well as maintaining certain kind of quality metrics around new york like two rates and also setting up conversions non-profits are eligible to apply for the grants parole account, which is forty thousand dollars a month, which is nearly half a million dollars a year in in-kind ad revenue and, you know, that’s that’s a great way for, you know, larger non-profits or international facing non-profits to get additional kind of exposure grantspace pro it’s called that’s pro. Okay, ru is pathways, education and a grand pro now, yet we’re run away, but i know that a mark is pricked with several clients against pro against yeah, we we have a few that working with the grants provoc counts again. It’s the more than international reach or the national across the states reach the reality is a lot of our smaller non-profit to have a regional focus, a search based so there’s a limitation, sometimes near population, searching for programs and the relevancy in just the raw reach doesn’t there sometimes, but for the bigger the big organizations absolutely it’s. A fantastic way to actively manager account and and really reach out. Okay, okay. You are. You also spent some time talking about keeping your skills fresh. As as adwords evolves. What is that about? What happens? I think that the platform is constantly changing. And s o back in toronto, i teach a digital marketing classes in the evenings. And one of the things that i am costly, thomas students, is that in one working in adwords and analytics, that the platform can change at any time on do you have to adapt to it? That’s part of you know, being, you know, working in digital so an example would be, you know, if when, when google changes our algorithm for search, you know, you have to respond to that, and you read up on, you know what the new algorithm changes? Maybe an adjuster campaigns accordingly. Another one is sometimes the platform itself changes. So you log into the interface and, you know, the buttons of switch debate or there’s. A new feature or a new tab. It’s? Very disconcerting. Yeah. Especially people. We’re not, you know, native digital. You know, you just used to something for years. And then without an announcement, it’s different yeah, so you have to keep on constantly beating and adapting and everything, but part of it is that, you know, even though, you know, for people who have been doing it for a while, you know, and maybe a little bit disconcerting to, you know, have everything shift, i think it’s also an opportunity for people who are completely new to the platform, i mean, it hits the reset button for everyone, right? So if you’re if you’re brand new getting into edwards, i mean, it’s a great opportunity jumpin you’re at the same level of everyone else. So, you know, it’s it’s also, i think, a positive thing and, you know, for people, you do not feel intimidated about jumping into it cause i know that when you first log into the dashboard like it’s, a lot of buttons and everything, but, you know, it’s, you know, both of us, you know, we start doing adwords about seven years ago when we were working at a smaller non-profit and, you know, it’s been a constant kind of learning and evolution, and we’ve seen so much change on the platform, but you know, the more time you spend in it, you know, it’s, the analogy we used in in our in our session was, you know, we’re not the kind of, like superheroes i got bitten by a radioactive spider and wasn’t out with all these superpowers to do add words, we would be more like, you know, the batman or the ironman in-kind things where, you know, just a regular person who, you know, that man went away for, like, five years, you know, into the mountains to, you know, train and honed his skills and everything. So, you know, similarly, i think it’s a lot of reading, so i really start off with a you know, just that the ultimate guide to edward’s weii read that book cover to cover many several times. Okay, is there a i presume there is? Ah, blogged that block for edwards. So google keeps yeah, google keeps obl argast adwords dot black spot dot com and that’s not asleep. Grants focus but that’s where all the new updates come out. Oftentimes the update will come out a few days before they get around the block post. So part of the fun as your law again and you think things were happy? Like, oh, shoot where’s my reports button, but they are constantly changing things and they are constantly improving. That’s part of the fun of google’s, they’re always innovating and, you know, a few weeks ago they went from having ads on the top, the top the searches also and decide to just the top. So jason’s thing it’s an opportunity to have you say that’s what i noticed that s o for advertisers know we were used to having, you know, three or four spots across the top, plus five or six more down the side, and i were down too two or three or four at the top. It has become really competitive, so if you’re willing to spend the time and research and learn the program, you’re competitive, you could be up there. So it’s, not it’s, not it’s, not something you’re like. Jason said begin with immediately and be up there, but you can learn it quickly and to spend the time. That’s what? We both started a lot of reading a lot of time out the side of our deaths and a lot of time at night, you know? Just just learning the craft. So yeah, it is definitely a worthwhile investment in time because i think that for all the organizations i’ve been involved with after implementing the edwards grant, like, you see a good spike in traffic, you know, in your google analytics, because people are finding the organization and all the the services you offer much easier and better. And, you know, mark has a similar kind of experience with the organization that he works with, like just getting general traffic over to your site for better awareness and, you know, connecting with existing supporters who are looking to make a donation like no one, no one google’s like, you know, i have too much money, you know, how you know who can i give it to you? I don’t, yeah, yeah, me strategic, yeah, all right. Now you had a superhero theme your your session? I see now i am not a dc comics guy or, like, superheroes, guys. So were you challenging? You’re challenging audience members, too. I identify with a superhero name themselves a superhero now? Yeah, not actually named themselves. But the whole approach was that you could be a superhero as well, and you can learn the craft. You can hone your skills, you could be a superhero. And you really do have responsible of the digital marketing record in your organization. Tto learn this and you know it’s there. It’s free it’s free money from google’s free ahjumma, google if you dont having not using it is a bit of a disturbance. So step up. Be a superhero and you know, okay, take it up. What? What is excelsior in you’re in the god zoology is thin. The session description says excelsior that’s how you ended it, excelsior all right, so that was that was just like a superhero. Kind of like exclamation that comment is the marvel comics. Yeah, okay, sure. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Part of superhero theme is also, you know, the spider man quotation. You know, with great power comes great responsibility and that’s good if you have an opportunity to connect with someone and you miss that opportunity, you know, that could be someone who was searching for, you know, help with their rent to what their anxiety or depression or help, you know, with some of their personal challenges. You can’t you can’t be serious. You’re absolutely right. We have a couple more minutes left. What have we not talked about or what you want to see? More detail may be something we covered too quickly. You spent ninety minutes in a session, so i know you got more. I got more knowledge than nineteen and a half minutes. I think that one of the questions that we ask this, you know, how much time does this take, you know, to do adwords. And to be honest, i wish i could say that, you know, it’s, you know, you can always make you know the case and be like, okay, i’m going to spend this amount of hours and you know, you’re your organization is going to support you all the way to do it. But, you know, the reality is, you know, sometimes you get you know, you’re really busy and non-profits and no this’s another thing to do on top of the you know, the ten or twenty, you know, items on your list for the for the week. And i guess what i want when i want a share is that when we both started out doing add words like we really were doing it off the side of right ask you not to try and prove that viability that you know, to bring in new traffic for our site. So you two, i guess whatever advising people are looking into adwords is you don’t know that this way. Do you know if if you to have a passion for it and are willing to do, you know, a bit in your spare time to even, like, get the initial ball rolling like it’s worth it? You know, even just to prove the viability to the organization because i know could be hired to try, negotiate for that time and resources and initially to get started, okay, but you’re encouraging. Yeah, for sure and the other part, guys don’t expect you have to spend two, three, four hours per week and build all your campaigns the first it can be a slow burn, it’s non going grant you khun step a a few basic campaigns to start with you learn the accounts, learn how things work and build from there that’s often often times your clients of just become super overwhelmed because they want to have this full blown fifteen campaign hundred. Ads that i’m going to spend my ten thousand dollars but it’s a race today you don’t need to yeah, that’s actually very good point we always talk it’s not about spending ten thousand dollars of spending the money properly, and you might spend five dollars, a month or a thousand dollars a month. But if you’re reaching your target and the people need to find your finding, you dori with ten thousand dollars, worry about doing it properly and making sure you spend the money properly and i think one of the great things about antennas that there’s ah, a community of people that are using adwords a spell. So, you know, one of the things i was really important for our session is like it’s, not only to show people how to use adwords, the google adwords grant better, but also, you know, reminding people like, you know, don’t forget to reach out to those around you because we’re all facing similar challenges, and we’re all along, you know, a spectrum of you know, your movies to experts and, you know, whenever something changes in all the experts become newbies again and so making sure that, you know people recognize you, there’s always help, you know, just around the corner just, you know, don’t be afraid to ask for help when especially in the community for is there a, uh, maybe xero community of practice around add words, you know, in in ten? Not yet, but we should wait. Yeah, i mean, you know, they’re very liberal about ah, a couple people interested, and now they’ll support it. Ok, there isn’t yet, but yeah, the entire community is very giving. So even without a formal structure around around edwards, there’s still help. They’re absolutely just posted one of the one of the one of the community boards and examine you and ask, ask for help, ok? And the one thing i would mention is that american speak to some of the more advanced you. So just so you know, i think there’s there’s certain things that you khun dio with the free adwords grant, but it also helps pave the way for a charity to explore usage of paid advertising as well and that’s, you know, the edwards grant is a great way to sort of explore those initial kind of foundational steps before moving to the paid advertising model what you have demonstrated, no clear return on investment for you’re on schnoll can about what you can persuade the leadership that there’s value, then maybe they’ll start to invest some of the organization money. Is that where we’re headed? Yeah, exactly. A string itself is an expert, as you understand there’s gaps we might know jason talked about competing with the pity alone’s places are competing with payed counselors and professionals add words is a really competitive market, but if you can show yourself is an expert and say, you know what, here’s what we’ve done but there’s a few gaps over here would like to other, you know that on some paid, you know hyre big key words or potential duitz, um, banner advertising, the google display network, or even potentially do some advertising on youtube that’s all within the adwords platform on a number of my clients and people i work with have their google grants account and also separate google adwords account is paid and google’s fine with that they there’s no wish without as long as you’re not competing on the same let’s, same keywords in your paid account and you’re free account. Dahna wish you okay. Okay. So you can you can do both side by side. Exactly. All right. Um okay. We wrap it up there. You think we’ve anything else? Well, before we do any other good, you have to raise something that made me think any other good questions that came from from the audience in your session. You want toe one highlight. Eleven were around some of the kind of technical details and that there are quite a few kind of, you know, technical, administrative details, you know, related to, you know, properly administering your adwords accounts. The one question that did come up during our session was, you know, what if you’re inheriting account that, you know, it is quite old and, you know, it may not have been well administered in the past, you know, how should you even start to, you know, fix it up, and our suggestion for that was to, you know, to break it down into buckets and just start changing it one campaign at a time to try and use proper structures and applying very method a logical approach to it, rather than sort of the scattershot approach that may have been used, but if you’re inheriting a campaign that has been a total mess, theun, you know, chances are it’s not performing very well, you may as well just wait, you know, most paul’s most of the campaigns and restart everything on the other question that came as well was just, you know, are on general support. And one thing that i like some of the google reps here at ntc mentioned is that there is a support line as well. So, you know, it’s it’s amazing, because there was a lot of companies that don’t offer, like, direct phone support. We’re talking about telephone support. Yeah, from google. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was actually a number that you can call, you know, if you’re adwords grantee that, you know, if if you need help, you know, navigating, you know, the main panel or creating ads or whatever, you know that there is, you know, entire support team that you can pick up the phone and call and they will help navigate through some of those challenges. Excellent. Yeah. So that that number is available. Okay, that is rare. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let’s, leave it there. Thank you. Very much thanks, alright. Jason shim, associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education canada, and mark coleman, president of evergreen digital marketing. Thank you again, gents. Thanks, tony, thanks, thank you very much for being with us. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thanks so much, master. Your decision making coming up first. Pursuant is your last chance to check out the archive of the state of fund-raising midyear checkpoint that’s, their webinar with ceo trent ryker and senior vice president jennifer balat. Midyear fund-raising reports they came out last month. What’s most important to follow. What if you’re not hitting the benchmarks? How do you keep up your good pace if you are doing well in comparison with the rest of the community? Pursuant is data driven. They’re gonna help you succeed in these all important third and fourth quarters by making sense of the data that you are inundated with its at pursuing dot com quick resource is then webinars. Let them help you make sense of data. We be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers it’s a night of live music, dancing, standup comedy, spelling and raising money for your work. It’s a night devoted to your charity not a bunch of charities it’s for you that’s the purpose raise money for your good mission to help you make the world better. Watch the video at we b e spelling dot com and then talk to ceo alex career ninety nine to two four bees now time for tony stick too solitude i’m hitting this again this week. It’s essential if you want to do your best work helping other people, you’re in e-giving profession if you want to give, you got to take take time for yourself. It’s essential time away from phone, email, text, social media and work just me show your boss my video. I’ll get an extra view your boss will agree with you, they’ll see it. My way. And you get the time off. It’s called solitude, full cast and crew. Your boss is going to be impressed. You got to trust me. Just show this thing to your boss it’s at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two here’s karen headed niimi and jamie nelson with master your decision making welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc that’s, of course that’s, the non-profit technology conference hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. This is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose, california, at the convention center on my guests are karen already said, karen headed niimi and jamie nelson and their session topic is the science and art of decision making. Karen is director of business and human resource is at the inside education society of alberta and she’s sitting closest to me. And jamie nelson is an educator at the inside education society as well. Ladies, welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. My pleasure. Indulge me, please. While i just highlight our swag item for this interview, which is from think shout it’s a t shirt from think shout and according to our outstanding piela hanna this is a minimalist star wars theme. She can point out that there’s ah, minimalist death star and a minimalist. What else is there? Millennium falcon. See it. See the minimalist millennium falcon, that’s, an mmf, minimalist millennium falcon. For those of you who are not on the video, i’m sorry. Go to real tony martignetti dot com r e a l, and you can watch the video there. It’ll be there shortly, so we’re adding this to our second day swag pile. All right, that’s. Where it goes, the science and art of decision making. Karen what? What are our challenges around decisionmaking? Well, i’ll tell you a little bit of the back story of this session, okay. Came to the non-profit technology conference last year for the first, and i am not a techie, but i want to learn more about trends and issues. And after it was over, i was very overwhelmed. And i thought it would be really need if there was a session on another life. Important topic to kind of give my brain a break. So weii well, had to choose this one, but i don’t know. You know what? It just came out of the universe, but i was here to make decisions about technology solutions, and i was having some trouble, and yeah, so i just thought, you know what? I need to learn more about this. And so it’s been a good long years journey. And here we are spent a year curating content a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Jamie wanted to share. What did you what have you learned in this curation process? So karen invited me in after she’s done. Quite. A bit of the legwork, which was wonderful on dh, so for me, it was really trying to look at the three different kind of areas of decision making, so we talked about the science on dh. Then we talked about what it’s like to take in additional information, and then we kind of talked about some of the the influences, and i think for me, one of the big things that i learned is is too to understand the systems that are happening every time that we face a decision. And that was really, really important because, like karen said, we’re here at the ntcdinosaur decisions a cz non-profits we’re faced with all kinds of, like, really important decisions on dh, so being able to kind of understand that process was really, really valuable as part of this whole, the building of the presentation, okay? So there’s, the science, the influences and the process all around our decision making. What did the count since you did most of the duration will give you the chance. What? What did you learn about the science of decision making? Well, it drew a lot from the work of dr daniel kahneman. Who? Wrote the book thinking fast and slow and he’s very respected in his field. He’s, a psychologist. And he also won the nobel prize in economics eggs for some of his work. So okay, smart guy. He basically proposed that our approaches to judgment and choice take their two mental systems or modes of thinking one of them is sort of fast and instinctual. Then the other is slower and deliberate. So that was sort of based on the different types of decisions we have to make, like whether whether it across the road now versus whether to buy a new home are hard wiring. You know, we could come free built right way. But we have different types of thes to these two methods of decision making. Break down into the types of decisions we have to make for sure, like one is mohr sort of natural. The fast thinking that we do is effortless is just something we do is we navigate our life. We drive the car down the road. Okay? Slow thinking is more deliberate, it’s more logical thinking through procedures. Little more algorithmic. So it takes more mental effort to do logical thinking decision making. It takes longer. Okay. More deliberative process. Yes, exactly. Um, is that all you learned on it for you in the years that all the science you master and that’s it? No. I mean, we boy, you could go on forever. I mean, a decision making is such a huge topic. You can look at it from a leadership aspect. Marketing behavioral economics. It’s huge. We just sort of focused in this session on, you know, information overload in an increasingly digital world. And how that’s we process that kind of information differently. Then then what? What we’re hardwired to do? Just perfect. Because that’s what you suffered after and twenty fifteen mental fatigue you were you were distressed and overloaded. Exactly, there’s. Not that you suffer from ntcdinosaur. The after effect was it was so much value, so much value. You were you were you were shell shocked. All right, um, so how can we start to help people in there decision making and let you know, let’s, take the the normal in our conversation. Let’s, take the normal day to day decisions. Not this. Something is simple minded is crossing the street. But, you know, some fair minded. Work decisions or personal decisions, but it is not his monumental is whether to buy a home, whether they have a child. But, you know, you know what? Like, what am i gonna have for dinner tonight or ah, whether i should have my parents over or, you know, i mean, average sort of day to day decisions, sort of in the middle of the spectrum, very fair, fair enough, very good point because our brain doesn’t doesn’t prioritize all the decisions we have to make in a day so we could be spending a lot of mental energy on things that are a trivial nature. Andi and then we don’t have enough reserves for the important ones, you know, when when we’re expending mental effort in our slow thinking we are we’re the brain is using twenty percent of our body’s energy, so we’re using up more of that energy in our in our logical processes. So if there’s a new way of losing weight, i just obsess about whether across the street now definitely can i can i lose twenty pounds? Not that i have a lot to lose, but but but, you know, yeah, i obsess about whether to put the stamp on the envelope right side up or upside down can i drop some pounds? You may drop some pounds. I know, i know. All kidding aside energy not calories, energy. Okay, assuming energy. Okay, but, i mean, you do. You are depleting some of your resources if you spend too much time on thing on decisions that just ultimately don’t matter that much. Ah, so, you know, some really good advice is to look at how you are. You know, how? First of all your energy when you’re making these decisions, you don’t want to make them when you’re tired and hungry? I mean, this is just obvious when you’re feeling emotional things, you can monitor about yourself. You know, in a busy life. We did go. Go, go, go, go. We don’t have this sort of transition zone to kind of recent reset our mental mode to the next transition zone. Right? We don’t. We don’t have. Okay. Okay, jamie, anything you want to add at this? Ah, scientific stage. Yeah, well, i think a lot of people can can relate to that. And that transferred really well from kind of talking about how as an individual, we make decisions and what influences us, whether it’s past memories, past experiences, you know, the time of the day how much you’ve had to eat, i think it really translates well when you’re talking about the non-profit world is a cz well, so if you are thinking about some major decisions that you need to make, you want to make sure that you’re you’re planning your board meeting an appropriate time of the day, you know, like so people are feeling fed if you feel really happy if you’re in a really good mood than that can actually make you less thoughtful in your decision making. And so we’re not saying that, you know, everybody should be kind of new thriller on happy in a board meeting, but just keeping these kinds of influences in mind. So in your day to day life, if you’re if you’re making decisions on what project to work on or if you’re making some of those bigger organization all decisions just keeping these influences in mind, khun b can actually have quite an impact, and that was really surprising to me to find out all of these external factors, aunt. How you know, just one of the stories that karen tell told in the session today was how if you’re holding a warm liquid like a cup of coffee? Yeah, you actually feel warmer feelings towards the people person that you’re chatting with, which makes sense culturally, like we get together over coffee all the time. And so and usually when someone asks you to go for coffee, it’s not because they want to yell at you, it’s, because they wanna have ah, positive, you know, productive kind of conversation, so that was was really interesting to think about and and that’s, what i loved about this session is it helped us kind of connect with our our own processes, but at the same time, we can think about how it influences our day to day work. Excellent, i liketo like that exploration of holding a warm liquid, what other other influences are there that we haven’t talked about yet? Well, we’re we’re influenced by almost everything in our environment, you know, our natural impulses when you know if i look at you and i see i might be able to detect that you’re angry, just buy one or two. Words that you say in the tone, you know, whether makes us happy if you ask someone if they’re happy and that’s a beautiful brightstep durney day, they’re more inclined to say that they’re happy than they are on a cloudy sort of moody day. You know, we are feeling beans before we are thinking beings and so, you know, this translates in our day to day life. All right, so how do we control some of these things? The one that we can control? We can control the weather, but our feelings, our state. How do we how do we sort of harness that? So that we do make better decisions? Well, you know a very simple thing you khun dio, is before you’re making a decision. Put yourself in a neutral state of mind. You know, you can. You can just say write down everything that you did yesterday, step by step in sequins i got up, i had breakfast, i drove to work had my day of work came home walk the dog you’re just sort of reset it’s like it’s like your computer, your rebooting your computer on then you’ve shifted your mental mode, you know? You’re not bringing in, maybe your emotion and your anxiety and whatever you’re kind of reset and then take the appropriate approach for what type of decision that that it is, you’re making. You want to just take a step back. You need this transition zone, you know, it’s hard, all the switching we do all the time, you know, between with multi task. And, you know, they’re really saying, well, what you’re doing is you’re you’re, you’re just doing attention switching, and that is very depleting in our mind, in our body. So, you know, having a little like, if you go to a therapist and you have an appointment, your appointments probably going to be about forty five minutes. It’s, not an hour, because they use some time to prepare. Have your session sometime to externalize what just happened and and collect some notes and be ready for the next person, you know, that’s logical. I see myself, yeah, i see my therapist for three hours, three hours, three times a day for a week, so i don’t know how she’s managing externalization she’s got just needs she needs to download, just like on the only person we could see each of those three days or practices suffering. I’m bolin pain, well, externalizing information. I mean it’s coming at us, and i mean, we we learn our brain like spatial, you know, and and the context of the environment that we learn in having all of this information coming at us. It’s. I mean, yes, lists are still important in this digital age. It’s still important to externalize some of what’s going on in your mind so that you can look at it as an observer in your environment, rather than you know, yeah, okay, yep, little dispassionate, yes, once removed, but but clearheaded. I see your head, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they are levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Anything else about these influences? Because we’re going now, we’re going to move to the process. Okay, but anything more about the influences? Well, i mean, biologically speaking, good moods. I mean, meant to us and our ancestors that environment was safe. We could we could relax a little. We could let our guard down, but that makes us less vigilant. You know, a bad mood. Singles tow us. Something’s wrong. I might need to protect myself. There might be a threat. I need to pay more attention. So, yeah, emotions. Like i said, we’re we’re thinking or feeling beings before we’re thinking. Okay? We moved to the process of of decision making. I mean, i feel like we’re sort of there, but okay, it sounds like yes. Yeah, well, i want to go there next. Well, one thing about the process, there is a lot of choice in today’s world, you know. Example, in the session we gave was going to pick out aspirin. You know, when you look at the isle of there’s, a spare for migraines and for sore muscles. And for all the different reasons you might have an ailment. But ultimately, maybe it’s the same. Product on homes have thousands and thousands of our possessions um, there’s research that shows that actually having too much choice leads us to make poor decisions, and we’re also dissatisfied with them. So having in the process fewer, fewer good options, but just a few and fewer variables, okay, karen is nodding a lot what you wantto into this? Well, i think that that ah, really translates well, when we’re thinking about that, the options that a lot of non-profits faces thinking, well, we can go in this direction, and we could do this kind of program or or use this kind of tactic, and what karen saying is is really like pairing that down and then making that decision and and the process of paring it down requires a decision as well. But i think a lot of us can agree that after a brainstorming session, it’s pretty obvious what some of the best options are, and then kind of taking a moment and taking a break, especially in, like, a working meeting where everyone has a chance to kind of reset and then that makes that actually makes the decision process easier on dh, that is really profound that sometimes people just want to kind of powerthru and say, it’s, getting towards the end of the day like we just need to make a decision. And that’s exactly right, you just need to make a decision. So in order to do that, you have to kind of think about all of these, all of the influences that air that are wrapped up in that. Okay, okay, we still have some time together. You spent ninety minutes on this and in your session, so has it goes quick, here’s a lot more to say and have enough time. This well, i mean, okay, the other the other part that we touched on in the session of the end was about creativity, because how can you choose the best option if you haven’t even imagined it? So part of it is developing some flexible thinking skills to, you know, be experimenting a little whimsical. And, um, you know, that requires sometime sometime in a calm mental state to do that kind of creative exploration. Eso we didn’t exercise in the session. We just ask everyone, what could you do with a marble? You know, similar to google? Asking what? Can you do with a pencil? Let’s? Try and see what we get. And some of the answers were like super unique. Jamie, can you ask the audience? Okay, what can we do with a marble? So it’s kind of fun? Yeah. Some people went really practical right away. Like i could hold it. I could put it in my mouth. I could put it in my head. I could put it on the table on dh. Then other folks also kind of went more creative right away. So one of our participants said you could write a haiku about it, which i she’s like it’s, not that left field, but but in the activity they had on an opportunity to work just by themselves and then to share and build upon. And i think what was really apparent is that a lot of the folks who participated said that that once they connected and started to build upon existing structure, then it it was really additive and really complimentary. And they started to go in more creative places. Yeah. Um, you know, along this line we were talking about the complexity of problems today and a lot of our problems are crossing borders and what is required. You know, i read something today about borderless leadership on dh you need a different skill set to address some of these problems. And so some of the things we talked about beyond creativity, where was critical thinking skills, you know, to look at all of the information coming at us and to be able to discern what is true and what is not true, what are some reliable sources, you know, and to be able to synthesise some of this information together with that we talked about being able to ask good questions, because that helps you ultimately make a better decision if you can clarify things so it’s kind of a lost art, you know, we reward people at work for having the answer rather than having a really good question and children asked several hundred questions a day on. Well, you probably ask a lot as an interviewer, but i do know i’m also child. I’m asking a thousand questions today in our day today, life like way asked everyone in the room, like, see if you can keep track of how many questions you ask today is probably going to be very few. Ah, very good skill to develop question answering how does that help us make better decisions? Jamie well, for me, i mean, in our work with the inside education, we we ask a lot of questions, so we do environmental programs with our students on we talked about natural resources in the environment and in that is this critical thinking piece. And so i found that if a student asked me a question and i turn it back to the rest of the classroom or or answered them with another question that it helps start to kind of peel back the layers and let’s folks realize they start to consider the question from a different perspective. So if i used the example in the session, you know, the first time a student asked me, well, what’s the difference between coal and charcoal? First of all, i couldn’t believe that i didn’t know the answer and it’s not a life changing thing, you know, like, i’ve gone so far without knowing that, and that was fine, but once i realised that it made me think to myself like, what else don’t i know about the world? Like, why don’t i know the difference between those two things and that’s the power of questions is that i know, like karen said in a professional life, sometimes if you’re if you’re in a meeting and and there’s questions about the reasoning behind the project that you’re working on, folks, khun bristle they can feel really defensive, but the power of asking a really good question is that it expands that horizon, and it helps you start to think about the bigger picture on dh then in that you’re able to think creatively and shift the paradigm and that that can only be helpful, you know? Okay, okay, we still have a couple minutes left. Let’s tease out. Come on. Did ninety minutes in a session. We’ll back on non-profit radio listeners. Yeah, never. I’ll never have your back-up billet. All related. Teo related to good questions and critical thinking is really about how we learn on dh and, you know, if you notice someone’s thinking process, if if if there’s a bias or they they they have a distorted reasoning, you know, we get defensive when people point out our errors. So the best way to help people see that they have maybe a flaw in their thinking is too created a learning experience for them to see the insight for themselves. Tohave a lightbulb moment an ah ha moment your mental mode shifts more easily when you discover it for yourself. How do you create this kind of moment? Teachers are good at creating this moment. What teachers are good you turned away from the mic, she said teachers were go to creating this moment on, i guess one of the ways that that i do that in a classroom with students is i you know, if we if we ask in opening question like what’s, a type of natural resource that we used to create energy, you know, some kids might have the answer right away and then others will be like lightning and it’s like, okay, so why did you say lightning? We don’t get electricity from from lightning, but why that? And then it helps them instead of saying no, you’re wrong because they’re they’re right. Lightning is electricity, but instead then we can kind of have a conversation about it, and then the student can come to the conclusion themselves working can work. Through the process themselves and say, okay, wait a second that doesn’t make sense, there’s nobody running around trying to capture lightning so that we can have power in our homes, but in that it doesn’t it’s that experience, and i think it resonates more with a student. I mean, this is such a trivial example, but like karen said, if, if there’s this this bias that occurs or this kind of error in thinking, i think everyone can relate to have someone if you have ah colleagues saying you’re wrong, the rest of the conversation doesn’t always go really well. So instead, you know yeah, you came, you can and it’s not avoiding the conversation, it’s just helping them kind of see, because that’s, the only way that that folks can kind of overcome is that if they experience that process themselves, it can be really hard to try to convince someone that they’re wrong and you’re right. But by building that experience by kind of understanding how our mind works and how thoughts are created, you can you can help increase that knowledge and expand the conversation instead of shutting it down and making it kind of antagonistic. Okay, okay. That sounds like a pretty good place to wrap up. Yeah, i think bernie’s consolation like you. All right. See, the closest to me is karen headed niimi, director of business and human resource is at the inside education society of alberta. And if the same society is jamie nelson who’s, an educator at inside education, ladies, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. Thank you. And this is that i thank you for being with us. Twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thank you. Next week. Definitely not fermentation. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. And by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is climb hyre off. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez on our music is by scots time be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and i agree dahna what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist. It took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for August 12, 2016: Master Google AdWords & Master Your Decision Making

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Google has $10,000 of free advertising for you each month. Are you taking advantage? Learn about the program and how to plan your campaign. Also find the best search terms to bid on and stay on track as AdWords evolves. At the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference I talked to Jason Shim, associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at Pathways to Education Canada, and Mark Hallman, president of Evergreen Digital Marketing.

 

 

Karin Hedetniemi & Jayme Nelson: Master Your Desicion Making

Karin Hedetniemi & Jayme Nelson at 16NTC

You make hundreds of decisions a day: some simple and some complex. What’s the science and art behind making good ones? We discuss how to pare down choices and ask yourself good questions. Karin Hedetniemi and Jayme Nelson are from the Inside Education Society of Alberta. Karin is director of business and human resources and Jayme is an educator. This is also from 16NTC. It’s NTC Canada Day on Nonprofit Radio.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer accident, missus if you unnerved me with the idea that you missed today’s show master google adwords google has ten thousand dollars of free advertising for you each month. Are you taking advantage? Learn about the program and how to plan your adwords campaign also find the best search terms to bid on and stay on track. As adwords evolves. At the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference, i talked to jason shim, associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education canada and more coleman, president of evergreen digital marketing and master your decision making you make hundreds of decisions a day, some simple, some complex what’s the science and art behind making good ones. You’ll learn how to pare down choices and ask yourself good questions. Karen headed niimi and jamie nelson are from the inside education society of alberta. Karen is director of business and human resources, and jamie is an educator. This is also from sixteen ntc today is ntcdinosaur abila day on non-profit. Radio attorneys take to love your work we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant to dot com. Here are jason shimanto, mark holman from auntie si welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen auntie si the non-profit technology conference. We’re also part of ntcdinosaur say, shin, we’re in san jose, california, at the convention center on day three of the conference. My guests now are jason shim and mark holman will meet them very shortly first have to shout out today this this interview’s, not just one a day, but one interview swag item, which is a ah brand dahna and it’s from ah on good from on good many ways to wear it and also ah ah, yo, yo alighted yo yo, which we don’t have enough don’t know brought enough frame, i can’t demonstrate my you’ll go, yo, yo prowess! I used to be able to walk the dog doo around the world, you know, rocket out horizontal butt back-up you’ll have to take my word for it that i can still do it, so this joins our swag pile. All right, jason shevawn jason is associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education in canada. Thank you. Very welcome back, jason. Thank you. Believe it was two years ago. It ntcdinosaur good, mary and more. Coleman is president of evergreen digital marketing. Mark, welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. My pleasure. All right, gents, we’re talking about how to be a google adwords superhero waken rock this now let’s talk first about the ten thousand dollars per month program for non-profits who who knows this program best. Is it free? How do we where we find it? What is this? Who knows the best? Go ahead. Yeah. Basically it’s ten thousand dollars of in-kind advertising given by google every month. It’s rule over grantspace oh, there’s there’s no limit to it as long as you keep me in the grant requirements and basically it’s in-kind so the little adds it show up on the top the google search results and that’s what you get so it’s a great program be part of. Okay, where can we find info for people who’ve never heard of this before? Google’s website is, i believe it’s google dot com slash non-profits or for canada’s, google dot cn non-profits okay, and you get ten thousand dollars a month? Yeah, a month free. Edwards. Yeah, free average it’s. Not a cash it’s non-cash granted in-kind advertising, but every month limited to three hundred twenty nine dollars per day. But every month on going, as long as you meet the program requirements, there is no expiration date. Okay, did you find it very hard to qualify if you’re i mean, if you’re in the u s and your five o one c three or if you’re in canada and you have the wherever the equivalent designation is, um, you’re a bona fide non-profit is that about all it takes are very much if you meet the requirements for being a registered charity, then you’re pretty much good to go. Okay, well, that’s outstanding, alright, i’m not sure how widely known that is, but it is now because everybody listens to the show. If they’re not, then they do. They ignored at their peril because then i don’t know. All right? Well, let’s, talk about some campaigning. Where should we start with our google now? We’ve got three hundred eighty nine dollars a day forever. Where should we start our campaign? So i think that one of the first things to start off with is really identifying you know what your organization’s your mission is? And then how you can align some of those add words to to align with, you know, with that that mission. So for example, for pathways to education canada, you know, our mandate is to help high school students that they’re living in low income communities to graduate from high school. So anyone searching for any topics that are related to, you know, dropout prevention or helping the high school students day in school or people that are living in communities that we serve, you know, whenever there searching for nothing’s really to education and drop you? No, we make sure that we sort of an ad. So, you know, they confined our resources more easily and that we can get access to nothing’s like tutoring and mentoring and, you know, access to scholarships and things like that. So it really helps connect people with the resource is out in the community, you know? Yeah, how do we think broadly about what keywords people might be searching for? Him and, you know, i’m sure every organization could name half a dozen off the top of their head, but how do we go beyond that? Maybe listening on twitter? I don’t know. You tell me, how did we go beyond what it comes to it comes to mind immediately. I think, it’s, you can start with a sort of ah thought experiment and just trying to get into that the heads of other people and really, you know, using your, you know, just general empathy. So when you, for example, mark and i, we used to live in a way we’re sort of used to work together in kitchen waterloo at a place called cries in family counseling services. And what we did was we were trying tio create ad campaigns to target people who are looking for things that couples counseling. Nothing is the market for key which couples counseling. You know, the bid rate is quite high, you know, for it. And then when you think about it, you know, by the times a couple realizes they need couples counseling. You know, you may have to pay more than what you have for those kind of words. You rewind it, you know, a month, six months prior. You know what? What kind of things might that couple be going through? And, you know, trying we wind up that way. So the kind of things maybe bidding for it’s, like, you know, i’m having challenges, you know, communication with i suppose, you know, how do you resolve money issues? Fundamental difference of opinion about children. You know, things like that that, you know, you dahna you at the end of the path, you know, but for people who would require a couple’s counseling you how to get to them a little bit earlier to kapin act them with the organization. So really it’s just a lot of service sitting there and thinking, oh, i love that idea of thinking ahead because you actually beat the competition that is paying the higher price for couples. You know, for that phrase couples counseling, absolutely relationship counselling you can get. You can beat the competition if you’re thinking a couple of months earlier. What are they talking about? Like money? Children finance center? Yeah, cool. On another example, i can provide and american and speak to this. Ah, bit as well. When we part of the service that were offered was credit counseling, and the thing is, like payday loan places like they’re they’re willing to bid up to, like fifteen dollars per click and the google lad words eyes limited to two dollars per click maximum. Okay, so you really have to be extremely creative when you’re thinking about, you know, for some of those services where you also, you know, essentially competing against for-profit right on do you know, how can you think about, you know, okay, so for people that are running into credit issues down the road, you know, what might have looked like six months prior? And, you know, maybe, you know, people are searching for, you know, troubles making their bills or looking for, you know, initial, you know, information about me, you know, loan consolidation or things like that, you know, before they get into that critical, you know, the moment where you know, they’re they’re living on sort of impact back loans and yeah, so it’s just a lot of thinking and but one of the greatest tips that i think we received when we first discovered hardware it’s from the ultimate guide. To adwords by perry marshall, you know, way highly recommend that book through the ultimate guide to edwards. Yeah, it’s called okay. And if one of them was read cosmo magazine and, you know, i think cosmo magazine provides a lot of lessons around, you know that the way that it cost one magazine covers designed, you know, it’s it’s designed to entice, you know, people that are going through a shopping check out to pick up a copy immediately, and i mean, it’s been the best selling woman’s back-up dean since nineteen seventy to know so, you know, they really done that in the print industry on the transits quite well into design in-kind adwords campaigns, you know as well you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it, tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna oppcoll is pathways to education canada using google edwards ten thousand dollar month program? Yeah, yeah, ok, and mark, you have other clients that are as well, successfully, yeah, a number a number and you’re going with jason’s saying as well to part of the big part of adwords is trying to think of you know how how our people need our programs and services are looking for us if you’re doing banner ads or magazine dad, you have the opportunity kind of show what your your services are in google search is very specific, you can’t think of what our people looking for it so how two’s the wise all the questions for help versus the opportunity of having made a scene at where you can put a big, you know, big, full page description of what your services are. This is really an opportunity for people who are actively searching for your programs and services and bring them right back to website. So it’s a really important program tohave from non-profits okay, after we’ve set on decided on a set of at words, phrases that we can afford to bid on how do we i’m thinking next stage is monitoring our our results day today is that if i skipped anything but, well, there’s there’s a process there’s the whole setup piece, which is your campaigns, i groups keywords creating your ads, but one side nuts and bolts piece of it is done gather it is the moderate peace and add words and google analytics are fantastic for that they show you click the rates that should you conversion rates if you have that set up impressions and something, and really manage actively and make wise decisions on a short term basis and that’s what actually drew me, tio adwords and that grants program originally was the fact that i came from a auto back-up under we have the auto trader, which is it’s, a paper magazine, and anatoli, you’re hoping to see people come in and say, i came here because i read your magazine without words, jason first showing the dashboard the first day i’m like, okay, we can actually see that accent or people clicked this ad in this time frame. It went back to her web sight and took actions, so get the monitoring in the politics part of is a really big piece it’s important? Okay, yeah. Jason, won’t you talk about this more? Yeah. What’s really great is that you can really make data driven kind of decisions, which is, you know, one of the hallmarks of working in digital, an example i would give us, you know, we we had run a campaign to get supporters to donate their air miles to our organization, and we worked off the assumption that, you know, people want to give their, you know, their airline miles, you know, the goodness of their hearts because, you know, you know, but what? We quickly realized that, you know, they think the ad copy was something along the lines of, like, hey, you know, i don’t need your airline miles to ah, charity focused on youth and, you know, the click through rate on that were abysmal, like they weren’t fantastic people converting, so we, you know, we sat down and went back and thought about it, and the ad copy that did perform better was, hey, i don’t have enough miles teo to go on a trip, you know, donate them to our charity instead, which reflected the kind of reality that some people face when you realize that you need, like maybe ten or fifteen thousand miles. You wanna trip in two thousand? Yeah, and they just want to, you know, do something good with it. And, you know, because they can’t go anyway, and that one converted three times better and it’s amazing to be able to get death the metrics around that and really support some of those hypotheses around. You know how hard people thinking, how are they behaving? And you can really test those out. And conversely, you know, sometimes you know the hypotheses that you come up, you know, fall completely flat as well. But it’s, you can always go back to the data rather than relying on sir. These, you know, anecdotal, you know, kind of gut feelings. You can still have toast, got feelings, but you consistently validating them over and over again with the data, which makes us think, edwards, you know, when the most compelling platform’s teo really experiment and run campaigns. Mark, you mentioned something. I want to die aggress to an add grants. You said adwords and add grants what’s with the ad grantspace program. Yeah, granted, we’re actually talking here for non-profits adwords is a platform that google has five times in that sort of business is, you know, and you can pay for ads today. But i grantspace the non-profit program that’s just ten thousand dollars month. Exactly. Okay, exactly. All right, e-giving a straight. All right. Okay, well, all right. So now we can monitor results like day to day, right? I mean, we and at the end of a week, we can see one phrase, one word is performing quite well. Another is not so weii stop bidding on the on the underperformers that basically what what we do? Yeah, basically straight a be testing and if one odds working other ones not if it’s we’re talking incremental increases. Here is what we’re talking about. One point five click through rate versus the one point seven or two point three it’s not always an eighty twenty of this huge disparity. Okay, but over time, you can make these incremental increases and really improve your presence, and we’ll set up typically set up two ads per at group abila play them out like jason mention. We make assumptions about what’s going to work, and we’ll quickly learned that it does or it doesn’t and they get to go on. We’ll pause the one ad, create new adam, obviously reset the process and move forward. So kind of a fun game that i have with my summer intern. So we get a summer intern every summer, and what i do is i challenge them to a competition. So every week will come up with an ad and you’ll see what the results are. And then we face off every week, so the lower performing at gets paused. And then we were both trying to create a better one every week. So, you know, by the end of the summer, you sort of have this, like, hunger games, you know, style of creation. You know, only the strongest survives the best click through and the best results and conversions. Okay, all right. And pathways education canada benefits. All right, they’re the winners. All right, do-it-yourself time together. What? Let’s? See what else? You, uh, campaign what else can we say about a campaign but the ongoing but i think waken speak a bit to the google grantspace oh, program. So if you max oh, it’s, your ten thousand dollar grant does there’s a few. Of requirements in there, you max out your the ten thousand dollar grant for two months out of the prior six months a cz well as maintaining certain kind of quality metrics around new york, like two rates, and also setting up conversions non-profits are eligible to apply for the grant bro count, which is forty thousand dollars a month, which is nearly half a million dollars a year in in-kind ad revenue and, you know, that’s that’s a great way for, you know, larger non-profits or international facing non-profits to get additional kind of exposure grantspace pro it’s called that’s pro. Okay, ru is pathways education dahna grand pro now, yet we’re out run away, but i know that america is a bricked with several clients against pro against yeah, we have a few that working with the grands prix accounts again. It’s the more than international reach or the national across the states reach the reality is a lot of our smaller non-profit to have a regional focus, a search based so there’s a limitation, sometimes near population, searching for programs and the relevancy in just the raw reach doesn’t there sometimes, but for the bigger the big organizations absolutely it’s a fantastic way to actively manager account and and really reach out. Okay, okay. You are. You also spent some time talking about keeping your skills fresh. As as adwords evolves. What is that about what happens? I think that the platform is constantly changing. And s o back in toronto, i teach additional marking classes in the evenings. And one of the things that i tell my students is that in one working in adwords and analytics, that the platform can change at any time on do you have to adapt to it? That’s part of you know, being, you know, working in digital. So an example would be, you know, if when, when google changes algorithm for search, you know, you have to respond to that. And you read up on, you know what the new algorithm changes? Maybe an adjuster campaigns accordingly. Another one is sometimes the platform itself changes. So you log into the interface and, you know, the buttons of switch debate or there’s. A new feature or a new tab. It’s? Very disconcerting. Yeah. Especially people. We’re not, you know, native digital. You know, you just used to something for years. And then without an announcement, it’s different. Yeah, so you have to keep on constantly beating and adapting and everything, but part of it is that, you know, even though, you know, for people who have been doing it for a while, you know, and maybe a little bit disconcerting to, you know, have everything shift, i think it’s also an opportunity for people who are completely new to the platform, i mean, it hits the reset button for ever, right? So if you’re if you’re brand new getting into edwards, i mean, it’s a great opportunity jumpin you’re at the same level of everyone else. So, you know, it’s it’s also, i think, a positive thing for people you do not feel intimidated about jumping into it cause i know that when you first log into the dashboard it’s like it’s, a lot of buttons and everything, but you know it, it’s, you know, both of us, you know, we start doing adwords about seven years ago when we were working at a smaller non-profit and, you know, it’s been a constant kind of learning and evolution, and we’ve seen so much change on the platform, but, you know, the more time you spend in that, you know, it’s, the analogy we used in in our in our session was, you know, we’re not the kind of like superheroes i got bitten by a radioactive spider and wasn’t dad with all these superpowers to do add words, we would be more like, you know, the batman or the ironman in-kind things where, you know, just a regular person who, you know, that man went away for, like, five years, you know, into the mountains to, you know, train and honed his skills and everything. So, you know, similarly, i think it’s a lot of reading so really is start off with a you know, just that the ultimate guide to edward’s weii read that book cover to cover many several times. Okay, is there a i presume there is? Ah, blogged that block for edwards so google keeps yeah, google keeps obl argast adwords dot black spot dot com and that’s not asleep. Grants focus but that’s where all the new updates come out. Oftentimes the update will come out a few days before they get around the block post. So part of the fun as you log in. And you think things were happy? Like, oh, shoot where’s my reports button, but they are constantly changing things and they are constantly improving. That’s part of the fun of google’s, they’re always innovating and, you know, a few weeks ago they went from having ads in the top the stop the search is off and the side too, just the top. So jason’s thing it’s an opportunity to have you say that’s what i noticed that s o for advertisers, you know, we were used to having, you know, three or four spots across the top, plus five or six more down the side. Now we’re down to two or three or four at the top has become really competitive, so if you’re willing to spend the time and research and learn the program, you’re competitive, you could be up there. So it’s, not it’s, not it’s, not something you’re like. Jason said begin with immediately and be up there, but you can learn it quickly and to spend the time. That’s what? We both started a lot of reading a lot of time out the side of our deaths and a lot of time at night, you know? Just just learning the craft. It is definitely a worthwhile investment in time because i think that for all the organizations i’ve been involved with after implementing the edwards grant, like, you see a good spike in traffic, you know, in your google analytics, because people are finding the organization and all the the services you offer much easier and better. And, you know, mark has a similar in-kind of experience with the organization that he works with, like, just getting general traffic over to your site for better awareness and, you know, connecting with existing supporters who are looking to make a donation like no one, no one google’s like, you know, i have too much money, you know, how you know who can i give it to you? I don’t, yeah, yeah, me strategic, yeah, all right, now you had a superhero theme your your session? I see now i am not a dc comics guy or, like, superheroes, guys, so hyre were you challenging? You’re challenging audience members, too identify with a superhero name themselves a superhero now? Yeah, not actually named themselves, but the whole approach was that you could be a superhero as well, and you can learn the craft, you can hone your skills, you could be a superhero and you really do live responsibly. The digital marketing record in your organization to learn this and, you know, it’s there it’s free it’s free money from google’s free ahjumma, google if you dont having not using it is a bit of a disservice. So step up, be a superhero and you know, okay, take it up. What is excelsior in? You’re in the ghazal jutze river in the session description says excelsior that’s how you ended it, excelsior all right, so that was that was just like a superhero. Kind of like exclamation that comment is the marvel comics. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Part of superhero theme is also, you know, the spider man quotation. You know, with great power comes great responsibility and that’s good if you have an opportunity to connect with someone and you missed that opportunity, you know, that could be someone who was searching for, you know, help with their rent to what their anxiety or depression or help you with some of their personal challenges. Kapin you can’t be serious. You’re absolutely way. Have a couple more minutes left. What have we not talked about or what you want to see? More detail may be something we covered too quickly. You spent ninety minutes in a session, so i know you got more. You got more knowledge than nineteen and a half minutes. I think that one of the questions that we ask this, you know, how much time does this take, you know, to do adwords. And to be honest, i wish i could say that, you know, it’s, you know, you can always make you know the case and be like, okay, i’m going to spend this amount of hours and you know, you’re your organization is going to support you all the way to do it. But, you know, the reality is, you know, sometimes you get you know, you’re really busy and non-profits and no this’s another thing to do on top of the you know, the ten or twenty, you know, items on your list for the for the week. And i guess what i want when i want a share is that when we both started out doing add words like we really were doing it off the side of my desk, you know, to try and prove that viability that you know, to bring in new traffic for our site. So you two, i guess whatever advising people are looking into adwords is you don’t know that this way. Do you know if if you to have a passion for it and are willing to do, you know, a bit in your spare time to even, like, get the initial ball rolling like it’s worth it? You know, even just to prove the viability to the organization because i know could be hired to try negotiate for that time and resources and initially to get started, okay, but you’re encouraging. Yeah, for sure and the other part, guys don’t expect you have to spend two, three, four hours per week and build all your campaigns the first it can be a slow burn, it’s non going grant you khun step a a few basic campaigns to start with you learn the accounts, learn how things work and build from there that’s often often times your clients of just become super overwhelmed because they want to have this full blown fifteen campaign hundred ads that i’m going to spend my ten thousand dollars, but it’s a race today you don’t need to you and that’s actually very good point too. We always talk it’s not about spending ten thousand dollars of spending the money properly, and you might spend five dollars, a month or a thousand dollars a month. But if you’re reaching your target and the people need to find your finding, you dori with ten thousand dollars, worry about doing it properly and make you spend the money properly. And i think one of the great things, both antennas, that there’s ah, a community of people that are using adwords this well. So, you know, one of the things i was really important for our session is like it’s, not only to show people how to use adwords, the google adwords grant better, but also, you know, reminding people like, you know, don’t forget to reach out to those around you because we’re all facing similar challenges, and we’re all along, you know, a spectrum of you know your movies to experts and you know, whenever something changes and all the experts become newbies again and so making sure that, you know people recognize you. There’s always help. You know, just around the corner just, you know, don’t be afraid to ask for help when especially in the country. Nufer is there a, uh, maybe xero community of practice around add words, you know, in in ten? Not yet, but we should yeah, but i mean, you know, they’re very liberal about ah, a couple of people interested, and now they’ll support it, ok, there isn’t yet, but yeah, the entire community is very giving. So even without a formal structure around around edwards, there’s still help. They’re absolutely just posted one of the one of the one of the community boards you any and ask ask for help, ok? And the one thing that i would mention is that american speak to some of the more advanced you said, just so you know, i think there’s there’s certain things that you khun dio with the free adwords grant, but it also helps pave the way for a charity to explore usage of paid advertising as well, and that, you know, the edwards grant is a great way to sort of explore those initial kind of foundational steps before moving to the paid advertising or what you have. Demonstrated clearly return on investment for you’re on schnoll can about what you can persuade the leadership that there’s value, then maybe they’ll start to invest some of the organization money. Is that where we’re headed exactly? A string itself is an expert, as you understand there’s gaps, we might know jason talked about competing with the pity loans places are competing with payed counselors and professionals add words is a really competitive market, but if you can show yourself is an expert and so you know what, here’s what we’ve done, but there’s a few gaps over here would like to other, you know that on some paid, you know hyre big key words or potential duitz, um, banner advertising, the google explain network or even potentially do some advertising on youtube that’s all within the average platform, i’m in a number of my clients and people i work with have their google grants account and also separate google adwords account is paid and google’s fine with that, they there’s no wish with that as long as you’re not competing on the same let’s name keywords in your paid account and you’re free account latto issue okay, okay, so you can you can do both side by side. Exactly. All right, exactly. Okay, should we wrap it up there? You think we’ve anything else? Well, before we do any other good, you have to raise something that made me think any other good questions that came from from the audience in your session. You want toe one highlight eleven were around some of the kind of technical details and that there are quite a few kind of, you know, technical, administrative details, you know, related to, you know, properly administering your adwords account. So one question that did come up during our session was, you know, what? If you’re inheriting account that, you know, it is quite old and, you know, it may not have been well administered in the past, you know, how should you even start to, you know, fix it up, and our suggestion for that was to, you know, to break it down into buckets and just start changing it one campaign at a time to try and use proper structures and applying very method a logical approach to it, rather than sort of the scattershot approach that may have been used. But if you’re inheriting a campaign that has been a total mess, then, you know, chances are it’s not performing very well. You may as well just wait. You know, most paul’s most of the campaigns and restart everything. Three other question that came as well, it was just, you know, are on general support. And one thing that i like some of the google reps here at ntc mentioned is that there is a support line as well. So, you know, it’s it’s amazing, because there was a lot of companies that don’t offer, like, direct phone support. We’re talking about telephone support. Yeah. So from google. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was actually a number that you can call, you know, if you’re adwords grantee that you know, if if you need help navigating, you know the main panel or creating ads or whatever, you know that there is, you know, entire support team that you can pick up the phone and call and they will help navigate through summer. The challenge is excellent. So that that number is available. Okay, that is rare. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let’s, leave it there. Thank you very much. Thanks. Alright. Jason shim, associate director. Of digital strategy and alumni relations at pathways to education canada, and mark coleman, president of evergreen digital marketing. Thank you again, gents. Thanks, tony. Thanks, thank you very much for being with us. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thanks so much, master. Your decision making is coming up first. Pursuant, like google adwords and making good, smart decisions pursuant helps you raise more money. Their tool velocity keeps you on task. Working toward that fund-raising goal. It was developed for pursuing fund-raising consultants so valuable for their client campaigns that they rolled it out directly to you. You, the small midsize shop. Use it yourself and get the value you need without the consultant. Check out velocity at pursuant dot com. Time now for tony’s take two. Do you love your work? I hope you do. I hope that you do something that engages you inspires you that you just feel so strongly about, you know that we throw the word passion around so much, but you just feel it that look, not every single day you’re going to work out, wake up some days and say, god, i hate this job. Oh, god, i wish i could just stay in bed, pull the covers over, but nine or ten days or eight or nine or ten days out of ten do you wake up and you just feel great about the work that you’re going to be doing the lives we’re saving, the the transformation, the change that you’re making in the world. I hope you feel good about it. I hope you feel great about it. Not just like it. I hope you love your work. Oh, and if you don’t, if you’re among the many who i see great faced on the subways, they don’t look like they’re happy going to work. I urge you to look to make that change small steps a little bit of a time start to see the light at the end of the tunnel i just urge you tow love the work that you’re doing i hope you do that’s tony’s take two live listener love i gotta send it out the live love goes out all the time so grateful for our live listeners listening right now at this moment now on august twelfth live listen love to you podcast pleasantries there can’t be live love without podcast pleasantries it can’t be just like the affiliate affections that air coming up podcast pleasantries to the over ten thousand listeners in the time shift. I’m very glad you’re with me pleasantries to you and those affiliate affections are multiple many am and fm stations throughout the country. Let your station know that you’re listening so that they know non-profit radio is valuable in their weekly schedule affections to our affiliate listeners. Here are karen headed niimi and jamie nelson with master your decision making welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc that’s, of course that’s, the non-profit technology conference hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. This is also part of ntc conversations we’re in san jose, california, at the convention center on my guests are karen already said karen headed niimi and jamie nelson, and their session topic is the science and art of decision making. Karen is director of business and human resources at the inside education society of alberta and she’s sitting closest to me and jamie nelson is an educator at the inside education society as well, ladies, welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. My pleasure. Indulge me, please. While i just highlight our swag item for this interview, which is from think shouts a t shirt from think shout! And according to our outstanding piela hanna, this is a minimalist star wars theme. She can point out that there’s ah, minimalist death star and a minimalist. What else is there? Millennium falcon. See it! See the minimalist millennium falcon that’s, an mmf minimalist millennium falcon. For those of you who are not on the video, i’m sorry. Go to real tony martignetti dot com r e a l and you can watch the video there. It’ll be there shortly, so we’re adding this to our second day swag pile. All right, that’s. Where it goes, the science and art of decision making. Karen what? What are our challenges around decisionmaking? Well, i’ll tell you a little bit of the backstory of this session, okay? Came to the non-profit technology conference last year for the first time, and i am not a techie, but i want to learn more about trends and issues. And after it was over, i was very overwhelmed. And i thought it would be really need if there was a session on another life. Important topic to kind of give my brain a break. So weii well, had to choose this one, but i don’t know. You know what? It just came out of the universe. But i was here to make decisions about technology solutions, and i was having some trouble, and yeah, so i just thought, you know what? I need to learn more about this and so it’s been a good long years journey. And here we are spent a year curating content a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Jamie wanted to share. What did you what have you learned in this curation process? So karen invited me in after she’s done. Quite. A bit of the legwork, which was wonderful on dh, so for me, it was really trying to look at the three different kind of areas of decision making, so we talked about the science on dh. Then we talked about what it’s like to take in additional information, and then we kind of talked about some of the influences, and i think for me, one of the big things that i learned is is too to understand the systems that are happening every time that we face a decision. And that was really, really important because, like karen said, we’re here at the ntcdinosaur decisions a cz non-profits we’re faced with all kinds of, like, really important decisions on dh, so being able to kind of understand that process was really, really valuable as part of this whole building of the presentation, okay? So there’s, the science, the influences and the process all around our decision making. What did the count since you did most of the duration will give you the chance. What? What do you learn about the science of decision making? Well, it drew a lot from the work of dr daniel kahneman, who wrote the book thinking fast and slow and he’s very respected in his field. He’s, a psychologist. And he also won the nobel prize in economics for some of his work. So okay, smart guy. He basically proposed that our approaches to judgment and choice take their two mental systems or modes of thinking one of them is sort of fast and instinctual. Then the other is slower and deliberate. So that was sort of based on the different types of decisions we have to make, like whether whether it across the road now versus whether to buy a new home are hard wiring. You know, we come free built right way. Have different types of thes to these two methods of decision making. Break down into the types of decisions we have to make for sure, like one is mohr sort of natural? The fast thinking that we do is effortless is just something we do is we navigate our life. We drive the car down the road. Okay? Slow thinking is more deliberate. It’s more logical thinking through procedures. Little more algorithmic. So it takes more mental effort to do logical thinking decision making. It takes longer. Okay, more deliberative. Process? Yes, exactly. Um, is that all you learned on for you in the years that all the science you master and that’s it? No. I mean, we boy, you could go on forever. I mean, a decision making is such a huge topic. You can look at it from a leadership aspect. Marketing behavioral economics. It’s huge. We just sort of focused in this session on, you know, information overload in an increasingly digital world. And how that’s we process that kind of information differently. Then then what? What we’re hardwired to do? Just perfect. Because, that’s, what you suffered after an ice twenty fifteen mental fatigue you were you were distressed and overloaded. Exactly, there’s. Not that you suffer from ntcdinosaur. The after effect was it was so much value, so much value. You were you were you were shell shocked. All right, so how can we start to help people in their decision making? And, you know, let’s, take the the normal in our conversation. Let’s, take the normal day to day decisions. Not this. Something is simple minded is crossing the street. But you know some fair minded work decisions or personal decisions. But it’s not. His monumental is whether to buy a home, whether they have a child but, you know, you know what? Like, what am i gonna have for dinner tonight or ah, whether i should have my parents over or, you know, i mean, average sort of day to day decisions, sort of in the middle of the spectrum, very fair, fair enough, very good point because our brain doesn’t doesn’t prioritize all the decisions we have to make in a day so we could be spending a lot of mental energy on things that are a trivial nature. Andi and then we don’t have enough reserves for the important ones, you know, when when we’re expending mental effort in our slow thinking we are we’re the brain is using twenty percent of our body’s energy. Oh, gee, so we’re using up more of that energy in our in our logical processes. So if there’s a new way of losing weight, i just obsess about whether across the street now definitely can i can i lose twenty pounds? Not that i have a lot to lose, but but but, you know, yeah, i obsess about whether to put the stamp on the envelope right side up or upside down. Can i drop some pounds? You may drop some pounds. I know, i know. All kidding aside energy not calories, energy. Okay, assuming energy. Okay, but, i mean, you do. You are depleting some of your resources. If you spend too much time on thing on decisions that just ultimately don’t matter that much. Ah, so, you know, some really good advice is to look at how you are. You know, how? First of all your energy when you’re making these decisions, you don’t want to make them when you’re tired and hungry. I mean, this is just obvious when you’re feeling emotional things, you can monitor about yourself in a busy life. We just go, go, go, go, go. We don’t have this sort of transition zone to kind of recent reset our mental mode to the next transition zone. Right? We don’t. We don’t have. Okay. Okay, jamie, anything you want to add at this? Ah, scientific stage. Yeah, well, i think a lot of people can can relate to that. And that transferred really well from kind of talking about how, as an individual, we make decisions and what influences us whether it’s past memories, past experiences, you know, the time of the day, how much you’ve had to eat, i think it really translates well when you’re talking about the non-profit world is a cz well, so if you are thinking about some major decisions that you need to make, you want to make sure that you’re you’re planning your board meeting an appropriate time of the day, you know, like so people are feeling fed if you feel really happy if you’re in a really good mood than that can actually make you less thoughtful in your decision making. And so we’re not saying that, you know, everybody should be kind of new thriller on happy in a board meeting, but just keeping these kinds of influences in mind. So in your day to day life, if you’re if you’re making decisions on what project to work on or if you’re making some of those bigger organization all decisions just keeping these influences in mind, khun b can actually have quite an impact, and that was really surprising me to me to find out all of these external factors and how you know, just one of the stories. That, karen tell, told in the session today, was how if you’re holding a warm liquid like a cup of coffee, yeah, you actually feel warmer feelings towards the people person that you’re chatting with, which makes sense culturally, like we get together over coffee all the time. And so and usually when someone asks you to go for coffee, it’s not because they want to yell at you, it’s, because they want to have ah positive, you know, productive kind of conversation, so that was was really interesting to think about and and that’s, what i loved about this session is it helped us kind of connect with our our own processes, but at the same time, we can think about how it influences our day to day work. Excellent, i like toe like that exploration of holding a warm liquid, what other other influences are there that we haven’t talked about yet? Ah, well, we’re we’re influenced by almost everything in our environment, you know, our natural impulses when you know if i look at you and i see i might be able to detect that you’re angry, just buy one or two words that you say in the tone, you know, whether makes us happy if you ask someone if they’re happy and that’s a beautiful brightstep durney day, they’re more inclined to say that they’re happy than they are on a cloudy sort of moody day. You know, we are feeling beans before we are thinking beings and so, you know, this translates in our day to day life. All right? So how do we dahna control some of these things? The one that we can control? You can control the weather, but our feelings, our state? How do we how do we sort of harness that? So that we do make better decisions? Well, you know, a very simple thing you khun dio, is before you’re making a decision. Put yourself in a neutral state of mind, you know, you can. You can just say write down everything that you did yesterday, step by step in sequins i got up, i had breakfast, i drove to work, had my day of work, came home, walk the dogs you’re just sort of reset it’s like it’s like your computer, your rebooting your computer on. Then you’ve shifted your mental mode, you know you’re not bringing in. Maybe your emotion and your anxiety and whatever you’re kind of reset, and then take the appropriate approach for what type of decision that that it is, you’re making. You want to just take a step back, you need this transition zone, you know, it’s hard, all the switching we do all the time, you know, between with multi tasking, you know, they’re really saying, well, what you’re doing is, you’re you’re, you’re just doing attention switching, and that is very depleting in our mind, in our body. So, you know, having a little, like, if you go to a therapist and you have an appointment, your appointments probably going to be about forty five minutes, not an hour, because they use some time to prepare. Have your session sometime to externalize what just happened and and collect some notes and be ready for the next person, you know, that’s logical. I see my yeah, i see my therapist for three hours, three hours, three times a day for a week, so i don’t know how she’s managing externalization she’s got just needs she needs to download, just like on the only person we could see each of those three days or practices suffering. I’m humble, unpaid, well, externalizing information. I mean, it’s coming at us, and i mean, we we learn our brain like spatial, you know, and and the context of the environment that we learn in having all of this information coming at us. It’s. I mean, yes, lists are still important in this digital age. It’s still important to you, externalize some of what’s going on in your mind so that you can look at it as an observer in your environment, rather than you know, yeah, okay, little dispassionate, yes, once removed, but but clearheaded, i see your hand, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m gale bauer from sponsorship strategist dot com dahna. Anything else about these influences? Because we’re going now, we’re going to move to the process. Okay, but anything more about the influences? Well, i mean, biologically speaking, good moods. I mean, meant to us and our ancestors that environment was safe. We could we could relax a little. We could let our guard down, but that makes us less vigilant. You know, a bad mood. Singles tow us. Something’s wrong. I might need to protect myself. There might be a threat. I need to pay more attention. So, yeah, emotions. Like i said, we’re we’re thinking or feeling beings before we’re thinking. Okay? We moved to the process of decision making. I mean, i feel like we’re sort of there, but it sounds like yes. Yeah, well, i want to go there next. Well, one thing about the process, there is a lot of choice in today’s world, you know. Example, in the session we gave was going to pick out aspirin. You know, when you look at the isle of there’s, a spare for migraines and for sore muscles. And for all the different reasons you might have an ailment. But ultimately, maybe it’s the same product on homes have thousands and thousands of our possessions um, there’s research that shows that actually having too much choice leads us to make poor decisions, and we’re also dissatisfied with them. So having in the process fewer, fewer good options, but just a few and fewer variables, okay, aaron is nodding a lot what you wantto into this? Well, i think that that ah, really translates well, when we’re thinking about that, the options that a lot of non-profits faces thinking, well, we can go in this direction, and we could do this kind of program are or use this kind of tactic, and what karen saying is is really like pairing that down and then making that decision and and the process of paring it down requires a decision as well. But i think a lot of us can agree that after a brainstorming session, it’s pretty obvious what some of the best options are, and then kind of taking a moment and taking a break, especially in, like, a working meeting where everyone has a chance to kind of reset and then that makes that actually makes the decision process easier on dh that is really profound that sometimes people just want to kind of powerthru and say, it’s, getting towards the end of the day like we just need to make a decision. And that’s exactly right. You just need to make a decision. So in order to do that, you have to kind of think about all of these, all of the influences that air that are wrapped up in that. Okay, okay. We still have some time together. You spent ninety minutes on this and in your session, so has it goes quick, here’s a lot more to say and have enough time that well, i mean, okay, the other the other part that we touched on in the session of the end was about creativity, because how can you choose the best option if you haven’t even imagined it? So part of it is developing some flexible thinking skills to, you know, be experimenting a little whimsical. And, um, you know, that requires sometime sometime in a calm mental state to do that kind of creative exploration. Eso we didn’t exercise in the session. We just ask everyone, what could you do with a marble? You know, similar to google? Asking what can you do with a pencil. Let’s. Try and see what we get. And some of the answers were like super unique jamie metoo, can you ask the audience? Okay, what can we do with the marbles? So, it’s kind of fun? Yeah. Some people went really practical right away. Like i could hold it. I could put it in my mouth. I could put it in my head. I could put it on the table on dh. Then other folks also kind of went more creative right away. So one of our participants said you could write a haiku about it which i she’s like it’s, not that left field, but but in the activity they had on an opportunity to work just by themselves, and then to share and build upon. And i think what was really apparent is that a lot of the folks who participated said that that once they connected and started to build upon existing structure, then it it was really additive and really complimentary. And they started to go in more creative places. Cam, you know, along this line we were talking about the complexity of problems today, and a lot of our problems are crossing borders and what is required? You know, i read something today about borderless leadership on dh you need a different skill set to address some of these problems. And so some of the things we talked about beyond creativity, where was critical thinking skills, you know, to look at all of the information coming at us and to be able to discern what is true and what is not true, what are some reliable sources, you know, and to be able to synthesise some of this information together with that, we talked about being able to ask good questions, because that helps you ultimately make a better decision if you can clarify things so it’s kind of a lost art, you know, we reward people at work for having the answer rather than having a really good question and children asked several hundred questions a day on. Well, you probably ask a lot as an interviewer, but i do know i’m also child, i’m asking a thousand questions today in our day today, life like way asked everyone in the room, like, see if you can keep track of how many questions you ask today is probably going to be very few. Ah, very good skill to develop question answering how does that help us make better decisions? Jamie well, for me, i mean, in our work with the inside education, we we ask a lot of questions, so we do environmental programs with our students on we talked about natural resources in the environment and in that is this critical thinking piece. And so i found that if a student asked me a question and i turn it back to the rest of the classroom or or answered them with another question that it helps start to kind of peel back the layers and let’s folks realize they start to consider the question from a different perspective. So i used the example in the session, you know, the first time a student asked me, well, what’s the difference between coal and charcoal. First of all, i couldn’t believe that i didn’t know the answer and it’s not a life changing thing, you know, like, i’ve gone so far without knowing that, and that was fine, but once i realised that it made me think to myself like, what else don’t i know about the world? Like, why don’t i know the difference between those two things and that’s the power of questions is that i know, like karen said in a professional life, sometimes if you’re if you’re in a meeting and and there’s questions about the reasoning behind the project that you’re working on, folks, khun bristle they can feel really defensive, but the power of asking a really good question is that it expands that horizon, and it helps you start to think about the bigger picture on dh then in that you’re able to think creatively and shift the paradigm and that that can only be helpful, you know? Okay, okay, we still have a couple minutes left. Let’s tease out. Come on. Ninety minutes in a session. Zoho back on non-profit radio listeners. Yeah, number. I’ll never have you back, bill it all related to the related to good questions. And critical thinking is really about how we learn on dh and, you know, if you notice someone’s thinking process, if if if there’s a bias or they they they have a distorted reasoning, you know, we get defensive when people point out our errors. So the best way to help people see that. They have maybe a flaw in their thinking is too created a learning experience for them to see the insight for themselves. Tohave a lightbulb moment an ah ha moment your mental mode shifts more easily when you discover it for yourself. How do you create this kind of moment? Teachers are good at creating this moment. What teachers are good you turned away from the mic, she said teachers were go to creating this moment on, i guess one of the ways that that i do that in a classroom with students is i you know, if we if we ask in opening question like what’s, a type of natural resource that we used to create energy, you know, some kids might have the answer right away and then others will be like lightning and it’s like, okay, so why did you say lightning? We don’t get electricity from from lightning, but why that? And then it helps them instead of saying no, you’re wrong because they’re they’re right. Lightning is electricity, but instead then we can kind of have a conversation about it, and then the student can come to the conclusion themselves organ can work through the process themselves and say, okay, wait a second that doesn’t make sense, there’s nobody running around trying to capture lightning so that we can have power in our homes, but in that it doesn’t it’s that experience, and i think it resonates more with a student. I mean, this is such a trivial example, but like karen said, if if there’s this this bias that occurs or this kind of error in thinking, i think everyone can relate to have someone if you have ah colleagues saying you’re wrong, the rest of the conversation doesn’t always go really well. So instead, you know yeah, you came you can and it’s not avoiding the conversation, it’s just helping them kind of see, because that’s, the only way that that folks can kind of overcome is that if they experience that process themselves, it can be really hard to try to convince someone that they’re wrong and you’re right. But by building that experienced by kind of understanding how our mind works and how thoughts are created, you can you can help increase that knowledge and expand the conversation instead of shutting it down and making it kind of antagonistic. Okay, okay. That sounds like a pretty good place to wrap up. Yeah, i think bernie’s copulation like you. All right. See, the closest to me is karen headed niimi, director of business and human resource is at the inside education society of alberta. And if the same society is jamie nelson who’s, an educator at inside education ladies, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. Thank you. And this is that i thank you for being with us. Twenty martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. Thank you. Next week. I just don’t know you’ll have to trust me. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is a line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez on our music is by scott stein thank you for that scottie with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great kayman what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for June 13, 2014: Online Canadian Connection & Right To Be Forgotten

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Two fundraising Canucks share online strategies from above the 49th parallel for small-and mid-size shops, including an explanation of accepting bitcoin donations. Holly Wagg is philanthropic counsel for Good Works and Jason Shim is digital media manager at Pathways to Education Canada. We talked at the Nonprofit Technology Conference. df

 

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Duitz hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I got to give a shout out to our listener of the week lynette singleton she’s our very first listener of the week when that is in atlanta, georgia, on twitter she’s at s c g number four non-profits she’s been a longtime supporter of the show, frequent re tweeter and live tweeter of the show just a very, very good friend and we’re very grateful and that’s why i say thank you very much, lynette, and congratulations being our first listener of the week, i’m glad you’re with me i’d be forced to endure the pain of dermatitis her peta for mus if i had heard that you had missed today’s show online canadian connection two fund-raising canucks share online strategies from above the forty ninth parallel for small and midsize shops, including an explanation of accepting bitcoin donations. Holly wagh is philanthropic counsel for good works, and jason shim is digital media manager at pathways to education canada. We talked at the non-profit technology conference and right to be forgotten. Maria simple is paying attention to a european court of justice opinion that google must remove outdated links from search results what’s the impact on your prospect research maria is our prospect research contributor and the prospect find her on tony’s take to a new non-profit radio knowledge base on your board relationship. We’re sponsored by generosity, siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks very appreciative of there support here’s my interview from the nonstop non-profit technology conference on online e-giving welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen and t c we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c on with me is jason shim, who is digital media manager for pathways to education canada and holly wag philanthropic counsel for good works there. Their workshop topic is the canadian connection. What you can learn about fund-raising from people who wear two cc’s howie! Jason, welcome thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. That’s a pleasure. Thank you. Ah, did you, uh, did you feel that canada doesn’t get the sufficient representative rebel representation that you had toe explicitly create? A workshop called learned from us above the forty ninth parallel i would say so. You get short shrift, or do you think so? Yeah, i would totally say. So. We also thought that americans should know what tuks are and that’s a really important cultural piece of education. Okay, tuks are the word is spelled t o qu es correct. What i’ll gonna jason, why don’t you explain what it is? A two is a canadian winter. A traditional canadian winter hats. What do they look like? They look like all sorts of things. Like so some of them, you know, they just have you pull it down, and some of them may have labs. Someone may have, like, prom phones, but generally it’s the just pull over there, knitted generally. Okay, so right. So they’re in place of a hood. I’m seeing those in new york city. I’m seeing a fair number of two. Cc’s. I saw one adorable one had little ears little for years. Um, so it took so it’s the difference between america, some places that would be for style and arthur definitely for survival. Okay. And where each of you from in canada? I’m from toronto right now. Okay? And i’m from ottawa latto and what? Will toronto is ontario, and ottawa is also ontario. Is it? And what else is otto? What do you know? What else is ottawa? The capital of canada. And see now you know why the caged ian’s air at t c all right? Yeah. I was thinking of auto manufacturing. So is auto and auto manufacturing center. No total government city. Forty percent of our population are government employees were learning. But i took sinew. But the capital. I did not. Okay, what can we learn? So you each work for non-profits pathways to education canada and good works. And you have some lessons you can share for those of us down south here. Who wants to go first? I’ll leave it to you. You want me to go first? Okay, so i’m not holding good works is actually i’m fund-raising consultant now on s oh, no, no that’s. That’s not a problem s o we work with a variety of not-for-profits across the country we work with, like national healthcare, charities, international charities. We also work with local hospital foundations or social services on and when i came away from end ten last year i was really aware of what all these cool things that other americans were doing on day would say it didn’t work and i’m like, but what are you talking about? Like in canada? That’s actually really good. So for example, i heard a lot of people dissing the phone and saying, you know, telemarketing doesn’t work or we’re not getting the good numbers or don’t invest there, and it got me to thinking, you know, some of differences between canadian american fund-raising on there definitely is in the direct mail market how we do our asks and how we structures are letters like canadians or just a little bit more polite and less forthright and asking for money, but it was amazing to me going back to the phone to see that i could acquire online donors, and i’m seeing on the phone, you know, five to ten percent conversion rates, which nobody else was seeing here, so the question is, if the phone about tool or you just hiring a bad vendor, you know, okay, okay, jason yeah, and i worked for pathways education canada and we’re an organization that focuses on lowering the drop of a great among youth who are living. In economic fear, just advantaged areas, and so is the high school dropout rate. Yes, do you have a you have equivalent is a high school and then and then hyre ed same thing in the states goes ninety nine to twelve and then college or university afterwards, okay? And i was finding that, you know, when i was doing presentations focused on youth and talking about the technology, adoption and things that, you know, the numbers that we’re seeing in the u s were lower compared to canada and historically, you know, for adoption, for things like facebook bonem that the adoption rate among youth has been quite a bit higher and, you know, i i don’t know if it’s because, you know, we’re just more spread out and we use more, you know, technology to connect with one another, like just pure speculation on my part, but in terms of numbers wise, like, you know, technology facebook, adoption among youth was, you know, in the upper ninety percent where is at the time of the u s it was closer, you know, but the eighty eight percent among high school students, so that also influences how, you know we do our work in that, you know, it’s way have to be on facebook to interact with her youth, and but it also is much more readily apparent when making policy and trying to convince people. But, you know, facebook is the way to go when dealing with youth and but it’s neat because, you know, we’re able to run these projects that essentially it’s, where the u s may be on some technological respects and, you know, three or four years, and we could just, you know, everyone heads up because, you know, generally what has happened? Dahna technology round, you know, ends up happening in the us a few years later in terms of the adoption related kind of things really? Is that how you see trends go? I think so. I mean, ghoul recently had a program called google partners that was geared towards our advertisers, and they’re they’re pilot audience essentially was in canada, and i mean, it makes sense because it’s a it’s a small like relative to the population of some entire states, i mean, you know, population in canada thirty five million, thirty five million, yeah, yeah, that provided a place where you know, they could test it out and make sure that the communities where, you know well serviced and that people could provide feedback, and they made sure that everything worked for the canadians before they released it to all of the us audience as well. And i mean, from a non-profit perspective, i mean, it’s not like you can necessarily, you know, copilot non-profit projects in canada before deploying them to the u s but i think when looking at broader technology trends and how some canadian non-profits have adapted to things that you know, there’s, some can be some lessons i could be running from the canadian border. Okay, we’re going. We’re going talk in detail about what those lessons are, uh, i’m learning here thirty, thirty five million in in in the entire country, and then it’s about the population of california way actually going to research that tonight. That’s good baby, i was laughing because i’m speaking this afternoon on a different topic about email and one of the panellists i was speaking with those original supposed to be danny boo from the american cancer society, and so he was talking about the size of his list on dh he said it was around fifteen million people, and i started laughing and i was like, you’re half my country that’s actually, probably like the eligible age of everybody you can actually donate over. Teo was like, wow, like, you know, so when were also coming here, you know, you’ve come to this conference, a lot of the people who were presenting are often from really big organizations who are really well resourced, and so i thought it was really interesting that our definition of a small or a medium not-for-profits and for the purposes of our thing, we were kind of saying, like under five hundred thousand dollars annually and fund-raising revenue you’d be small and between five hundred thousand and two, point, five million being medium, but i don’t know if many organizations here if i settle this organization’s raising two point one million through their entire fund-raising program, they would probably be like that’s really small but it’s, not necessarily in canada. Yeah, well, be careful now in in the u s i’m pretty sure it’s just around fifty percent of the of the non-profits i think like fifty one percent have have have annual budgets of under fifty thousand dollars, so yeah, so it’s like that on our audience here non-profit radio is all small and midsize shops, i know that i’m not talking to, and i don’t produce the show for stanford university or hyre a memorial stone kettering hospital or, you know, any of these huge organization’s, although i do think they could benefit but there’s their lives, they’re missing out, i can’t reform them oppcoll but yeah, the vast majority of non-profits are small by your definition, and i’m pretty sure it’s, like fifty one percent have budgets, annual budgets under fifty thousand dollars that’s, that’s, crazy there’s, about eighty five thousand charities in canada and half of those are don’t even have a staff member like they’re all entirely volunteer driven. So even the context that we’re talking about, we’re guaranteeing at least, that these people have one staff member or at least organized enough to have some sort of fund-raising program of some, you’re not really very aware of what’s happening in the u s do you know the u s capitol? I’m in it, thank goodness, but i didn’t know about the mall because everybody kept on talking about the mall. You figured shopping? Yeah, i was like, why? Whatever. You want to come to the mall. And then i realized it was not about a shopping center. Embarrassing, but okay. All right. Um, well, holly let’s. Stay with u and s o your old working your each working either in a small, small, mid sized organization, jason or supporting them as a consultant. Holly okay, so what are some of the technology lessons that we can bring from from above? I think one of my favorite lessons because our agency tends to we have a direct mail history. So one of the reasons why i was hired is toe build the digital size of our business. Digital side of our business on dh what’s amazing to me is nobody that i work with. Has anything that’s integrated or even a comprehends of systems approach to, like, capture their data or even an email program? So i’m really struggling with organizations who know that they need to. Aye. Like, say, for example, i need tohave an email program. I need to be able to get people to sign up on my website. So part of what we do is teaching them on coaching or executing it for them, depending what the scope of work is. But all a lot of it is, is change management and culture management within organizations like a hospital foundation, you know, didn’t didn’t didn’t dick dude e-giving dink, dink, dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network duitz waiting to get you thinking. Dahna good this’s, the cook said about sonya wear hosting, part of my french new york city. Guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back french is that common language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes and desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us. Pardon my french new york city every monday from one to two p m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. And let’s let’s work within an example of ah client that you know, unattributed, but how not not just what you did, not just how you help them generally, but how you help specifically and what the lessons khun b for small and midsize shows here, one of one of the clients that i’ve worked with and they will see which i think is an awesome case study is that they’ve only had a gn online program, and all that online program really evolves around is email nothing else on dso they for the first time, we’ll see probably this year they’re online revenue surpassed their direct mail revenue and their direct mail revenue was pretty healthy to begin with on and some of the lessons when i came in was being ableto, for example, we have a big bulk list of people, but we had no idea who was actually honor email list. We didn’t know where they came from. We didn’t know if they were donors, if they were supporters, what kind of information? And so one of my first techniques is sort of to go in, you have to find out what information is of value to your supporters have to find out, you know, where they’re coming from, what they want. So we’ll work with our charities to really understand who their donors are on one of the things that were really big on his storytelling works exceptionally well. Let’s talk about that. Yeah, on dh. So we will help our clients find a story that will resonate with donors and then translate that and help them tell that story in an email. Mediums. So how do you how do you pick the right stories? Um, i used the very unscientific i will use a shiver that or the cry test. So if i read a story or zoho shiver a shiver castro, i got okay, but so if i hear of a story that stops and makes me pause and makes you feel like it punches me in the gut, then i know that that is the absolute right story for me. And so, you know, part of you know, sometimes i’m talking to the person to get the story. Sometimes i’m developing it, you know, off paper on dh. So for me, it’s getting teaching not-for-profits how to write a good story in an email andi think storytelling ski, but i also think regular communications is something that small not-for-profits really struggle with their, like all these big organizations, they say they send out, you know, thirty emails or, you know, five emails a month, and i we start planning out a schedule so that they don’t all get bulk dough, but like let’s say, we’re going to do one email a month and it’s just going to be telling about something in your organization that’s really important. So for example, one of the organizations i volunteer with his cold on the ten oaks project to me run summer camps for kids who have clear parent, and so we were never telling any of our donors what we were doing with their money. And so this year we have a plan series of six stories that we captured and sometimes their campers we’re talking about, you know, one girl i just finished writing her story. Her name is bernadette, and she talked about the moment when she was at school, and she found out that her friends had passed around a petition asking her to be kicked out of the girl’s changer during visit. Because her parents were gay and they presume that she was going to be making, you know, sexual passes at her. I mean, how did that story not kick you in the gut? Right? To feel like this kid, who at that time was in grade seven. This is a bunch of kids doing it, a bunch of kids and her finding out. And so really talking about the rule that this organisation has played in transforming and building her self confidence and her self esteem and, you know, helping her to successfully girl been building this community appears so for us in that organization, we’ve decided every other month we tell one of those stories so their camper stories, their family stories, their volunteer and the commonality between all of them is that look, you just got on your face. Tony was getting kicked out by your peers because it really people understand why they’re giving to this they they were there themselves. They can relate to that somewhere. They know that that’s a really important issue on dso. My job with everyone we work is to find that kind of moment until it well, that’s just remarkable kids. Becoming so bigoted at that age, kids becoming bigoted, period? Yeah, it’s horrific. And this is candy, and this is canada and we pride ourselves, you know, on diversity and tolerance. So i can’t even imagine what would happen in places that, you know aren’t as progressive is so finding that compelling story, how do you encourage the story? Teller? Teo, teo, open up. Maybe you hear about the story from program staff, for instance, some some of the way how do you induce the person teo to share personally? Well, actually, surprisingly, the best way to interview someone is over the phone, and you wouldn’t necessarily think that, but because of that little bit of distance between you and the person on, they often just open up and it’s, taking them through a journey through their questions and ask, and you should always, when you’re interviewing, someone asked the kind of leading questions if they’re not giving you what you want. But, you know, you ask him about a situation and you say, tell me how that that make you feel if they’re describing a situation, tell me what it sounded like. Tell me what it smelt likes you. Know, and you really want to get into the sensory processes when you’re interviewing that person, and sometimes a person will just go when they will tell you a story it’s and it’s an hour, and it’ll be your job to cut it back. I mean, sometimes it’s making them really comfortable in making points of identification i’m with them. And the skill i think that you develop as a fundraiser over time is that people actually tell me really everything, like, really candid because i’m a very honest and open person, and i think that relates through and they’re really comfortable being transparent with me. So it’s kind of a gift, you know, you might be a really good fundraiser of you have a natural gift for having people disclose very personal things. Teo the your advice about interviewing people on the phone reminds me of terry gross who’s who’s, the host of ah national public radio show fresh air. Yeah, she insists that her guests not not being the studio with her, they’re always remote and not just in another room, but they’re in other cities she doesn’t want them doesn’t want doesn’t want me looking at them. She feels she gets a better connection, just just having their voice in her in her head and same for them, exactly it’s unusual. But it works for it works perfectly well for her, but it’s not because eighty percent of communication is nonverbal and so all of the body language, all of the facial discomfort. Maybe if somebody’s telling you something that upsets you, none of that translates through. All you have to do is control your voice with absolutely no judgment is there, you know, sharing these really important, transformational woman’s that your cause or your organization has had in your life and there’s really nothing more beautiful or privilege to get to talk to these people who talk about how x organization helped their wife die or to talk about how they were able to get a mastectomy and then an immediate breast reconstruction at a hospital because of a piece of equipment that donors have purchased, how, you know, they were able to be get refugee status and come to canada about how they donated a kidney meat there, brother so he could live it’s a privilege to be able to hear those stories jason on the education side what uh, what can we learn from from above? Well, ah project that i was working on last year with the implementation of bitcoin donations at our non-profit and you know, within the non-profits unit is across north america are are indeed all around the world is quite unique because, you know, it’s, something that i cz perceived to be requires a lot of technical implementation, but it was actually quite straightforward, but it was further supplemented by the fact that the canadian government issued very quickly after bitcoin came out an advisor treyz saying, hey, this is how we deal with the tax implications of, you know, the coin and currency and you know, that provided guidance for people to start implementing it within the organizations and things. So in november, we became the first organization in canada to issue tax receipts for bitcoin donations, and i would like to go as far to say that, you know, the first organization in north america is your tax receipts have yet to find us organization that issues before we go much further, which we do have time for, but we better acquaint listeners with what bitcoin is. All about, i think a lot of people have heard of it. Very few people use it let’s, let’s flush that out for people and how you get it and it translates into real money because i still don’t really know. Yeah, okay, how does it translate to real mentor? So please tell us the story, but what bitcoins about so in a nutshell, bitcoin is on online crypto currency that so i use the analogy of imagine if you had to give someone who lived on the other side of the country off five dollars. Now, the options that may be available to you is you could mail that five dollars, to them. You could maybe send them a bank transfer. You could send it to them via paypal oppcoll, with the exception of emailing on an actual five dollar bill, requires central authority. So, you know, you would with your bank, you would say, you know, minus jason five dollars, plus tony five dollars, and that the bank would be in control of that for you. No papal would do the same thing part of their central ledger, but imagine a system similar to the internet where it’s peer-to-peer and no one actually has direct control as to whether or not the transaction goes through that it is the closest thing to cash that is electronically available, so if i want to send you five dollars there’s, no one in between that could stop that transaction that it’s as good as me giving you the cash there’s no government agency or organization or company that could say that could block the transaction, which is the system that currently exists now. It’s it’s, quite a revolutionary concept similar to the internet in which, you know dahna for the internet, you know, people accessing, like bulletin board zsystems that you’re dialing into a central server and, you know, people close messages, but if someone doesn’t like you being there, they could kick you out, but the magic of the internet being that anyone can communicate with anyone else in the world and, you know, if people you know, i can’t say that, you know, this piece of data is in venturing my country like you know of these what the ideas of ideals of net neutrality, um, so imagine that applied to a financial system on it’s, quite a revolutionary. Concept that, you know you could i’ll be sending, you know, large sums of money what i actually transferring what do what do you get if what do i get when you’re giving me this five dollars? What do i see? You would see just a whole bunch of code s o it bitcoin is transferred to what’s called wallets and these air usually expressed in q r code. So you would you would get a wallet that would essentially be a cure for that people could deposit. And of course, the q r codes those little black and white diagrams that that air scannable and lead to lead to websites. Yeah, okay. And if if you wanted teo hyre generates bitcoin so that this is something that’s created by the network. So every every computer that is part of the bitcoin network is actually helping facilitate these transactions in return for helping facilitate these transactions, and being the network that bitcoin in a program or algorithm itself will give those computers that are transferring everything like small bits of bitcoin. So it’s sort of like an incentive system two to keep the network flowing and everything and it’s it’s designed in such a way that you can’t just, like, manufacture more money like, you know, just you can just print more bitcoin or create more bitcoin. It’s it’s not a preset rate that you know it’s tributes at a set amount and that can only ever be like twenty one million bitcoin in the system. And yeah, okay, wait, i do have a couple questions, but we don’t really have time to go into any more details about bitcoin. We’ll have to have to leave it there. I’m sorry listeners about bitcoin buy-in because we want to get the technology lessons from jason. All right, so now we have some grounding in bitcoin let’s get to the your take away that u s o show in terms of implementation. I mean, this is a technology like we we chose to pursue it because the canadian government itself through the world canadian mint, they’ve been working on a project called the midship. Now this is a government backed project that’s what they are pursuing digital currency. So imagine the way that they’ve structure is, you know, the ideal science fiction ideal of you top two cards together and you can transfer the money straight there. So there’s no such thing anymore is like five dollar bills, a ten dollar bills that you know you could just touch the two tarts cards together and it’s just a currency transfer. No bank in between to to do that. And when we look ahead, i think one of the absolutes will be like currency will change. I think they’re that’s the way that things will be moving, like in terms of wave moving from cash systems to electronic systems. You know, like things like papale, this is the next natural evolution of currency transfer. So whether it was bitcoin or anything else, you know, that was the rational that we used to it to pursue it because the canadian government already exploring digital currency. So bitcoin came out, which seems to be a global kind of currency. So why not pursue it? So we went through the process of implementing it was actually quite straightforward men there’s a there’s, a great fund online actually goldenburg point one hundred and it’s ah, a fund that was developed by early between adopters. And they put a whole bunch of bitcoin into a wallet, and i think they started off something like over a hundred thousand dollars, and they said if a non-profit eyes interested in exploiting bitcoin and implements that further non-profit and puts the q r code on the web site, we’ll just give me a thousand dollars oh, and it’s the simplest thousand dollars that i think the organization has ever received, like you just let him know that hey, we’re accepting bitcoin and no grand proposal, they just sent the thousand dollars and be like, okay, well, have a nice day. I was like, oh, do you want to follow up on that and he’s like, no, just the best thing you could do for me is help me get rid of this fund. The money is going faster than i can spend it, like, serve your ideal philanthropy, right? But this’s only available to canadian no non-profits the gentleman’s actually based out of maryland inside dimitri and he he runs the final target. He’s he’s access a community trustee for this funds that was built around an online forum. So you know, he’s charged with distributing on how can we find him just google bitcoin one hundred and believe the website is bitcoin one hundred dahna allergy? I just let him know that you’re interested in getting the thousand dollars and you know, you should follow-up okay, that’s actually an excellent takeaway, because now we have a site we could go to weaken, learn more about bitcoin and the possibility of accepting it and, of course, bigger takeaway being the transformation. What i was thinking, yeah, there’s a thousand dollars. But i was thinking of the thinking well, brother ali, that there’s a little more profound thought that jason had dahna which was the transformation of currency, and i think that’s, you know, that’s where it will happen. I can’t say what the timeline will be. Five years, ten years, flying cars, digital currency, grandchildren yeah, those are excellent. All right, two very good lessons and think things to think about. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having us. My pleasure. Thanks. You’re welcome. Jason. Jason shim is a digital media manager for pathways to education canada and holly. Wag philanthropic counsel for the consulting firm. Good works. I want thank you very much again. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage. Of the non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fourteen, thanks so much for being with us. Thank you very much and ten and and t c generosity, siri’s, sponsor’s non-profit radio and they helped me make it. They helped make get possible for me to go to conferences like ntc and to get valuable info for you from interviews like that, general city siri’s hosts multi charity peer-to-peer runs and walks you know them? You’ve heard me talk about them if you’re thinking about including a run or a walk in your fund-raising i asked you to check them out as a possible provider. Tell dave lynn that you’re from non-profit radio he’s the c o o you could reach dave lynn at seven one eight five o six nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com many thanks to them for their support of non-profit radio i have a new non-profit radio knowledge base, this one is on your board relationship. I know that lots of charities are struggling with their relationship with boards and board members. Just yesterday i had lunch with a ceo and a boardmember who were sharing their frustrations with there underperforming board, i’ve got links to non-profit radio interviews on getting the best out of your trustees. There’s a panel of three women who work in non-profits talking about that building a more effective board with gail gifford working with your small organization board. That was another panel board, a six with jean takagi and a couple of other links also all about your relationship with your board and getting the most out of your board. The video and the links are at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, thirteenth of june twenty fourth show of twenty fourteen you know maria simple she’s, the prospect finder, she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com, and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now exclamation mark she’s, our doi n of dirt cheap and free you follow-up maria on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria, good to talk to you. Good to talk to you. Thank you very much. You’re not going to say glad to be here or anything. Well, i am glad to be here, actually and it’s in my summer month and i’m always happy in the summer. So this is a good thing, excellent, and even happier on non-profit radio day, right? Absolutely. Now that i ve pimped you twice and you have no choice but to say yes. And i’m happy about everything. We’re talking about the right to be forgotten. This came from a spaniard who brought a case in the european court of justice. Yes. So, you know, i thought it was very interesting and i was wondering, you know, there might not be immediate applications for prospect researchers in the united states, but you know it. It got me to thinking what implications this might have five or ten years down the line in terms of information that might end up getting erased from google searches. Um, and it just got me to wondering, you know how how we have to maybe cross check data in other places, especially going forward? If if we’re going to start seeing data, you know, becoming race could it could even be more imminent than five or ten years? I think. Very well could be. You know, right now, um, one of the one of the steps that i had seen was that over forty one thousand europeans have actually asked through this online form that google has created to be for gotten so they want mention of themselves erased off of google search results. And that huge let’s set the scene in case everyone hasn’t heard of this. This was ah man in spain who brought a case to the european court of justice because there were links in searches of his name is just searching his name. There were links to old events that he thought were no longer relevant, right? It has to do with a realist state auction that was held, teo, settle some of what they call social security debts, whatever that meant. But he was, you know, not happy that that was still out there because he felt that the debts have been settled and so forth. And so he petitioned through this, uh, europe europe’s top court, which is the court of justice of the european union, i guess it’s somewhat similar to our supreme court and petitioned. And it was ruled in his favor that yes, google is going to have to comply. So of course, if google’s going tohave to comply, you have to think that the other major search engines like yahoo and microsoft being will also have to do the same and to comply. Google came up with this online form. I don’t know if you don’t know how you go directly to the form, i guess you can just search it. I think i ended up finding a link in one of the articles led me directly to the form and it’s pretty interesting because you actually have to select from a drop down menu one of the thirty two countries that are listed that you would reside in. You do need to provide some sort of a photo id, uh, so that i guess, you know, if you’re trying to get maybe say, a competitors, you know, information swipes or something like that, they want to make sure that yes, you are you’re the person and it’s information about you, etcetera, and so there are, you know, there’s certain things that you do need to do in order to comply, to get it to get the data removed, but they really think it’s going to be a very long time before google can’t even get through all of these. Requests. And right now it on ly pertains to the european union, as you said, the thirty two countries so this does not apply teo u s residents, but it could there’s potential that someone could bring a similar action on dh similarly succeed in the us i’m not i would not put it past somebody to come up with that idea, having read, you know, all the press that there is available out there about this particular ruling in europe. One thing that i didn’t realize i mean, i just thought that you go to google dot com and that’s just the one place to do research the devil, evidently there’s a google dot ceo dot uk, which is, i guess, the european equivalent of google’s search engine, so i think what they’re from my understanding of what i’ve read is that it’s going toe wife clean the search results that you would find on the european search engine and maybe not necessarily google dot com again, it’s also new and all such a grey area and google themselves trying to figure out how they’re going to end up complying with this whole thing. The implications than for prospect. Research are becoming apparent as we’re talking. You might not find everything that you’d like to find on someone, right? Right? And, you know, i can give you an example. Tony, of a search i was doing a number of years back, i was probably about ten years ago, i was doing some donorsearch research actually, i was just doing research. I wasn’t sure that this person was actually considered a donor prospect or not, because sometimes i’m doing the research because there’s, considering having this person as a high profile boardmember and so i’m doing the research, and i kept coming up with this a person’s name connected to corporate insider trading. So the bad kind of insider trading and at first i dismissed it because i thought, well, maybe it’s just the same name? Um, but then i came across one article that actually did link the person to the insider trading and linked to the person to current employment situation. So then i knew this was indeed the prospect, so i came i had a dilemma because right, if i put this information into a written profile, then, uh, any donor and he don’t prospect really has the right to walk into your organization and say, show me what information you’ve compiled on may i want to see my donor record on. And so i really had this dilemma, and i thought, well, what do i do with this information? So i decided to call the person who had hired me to do the research, and i asked, why are you having me do this research on this individual? Is it for a simple donation, or is there something more to this? And she said, oh, there’s a lot more to it. We are considering bringing him on the board, and our board chair thinks he would make a great treasurer for organization. Oh, my. So that was you know, i thought. Okay, well, red flag. So i decided to verbally give the information that i had found. I mentioned that the person had paid their fine had done their time. It was well in their past. But i did feel that the executive director didn’t need to know that this existed. Now why? This is really interesting dilemma. But why? Just verbally? Why? I mean, if if it’s bonified and you had confirmed it, why not? Put it in the written prospekt reports, well, we discussed that i told her that i would i don’t like to put information into a written profile that would potentially sever our relationship with somebody, and it could, you know, it was a potentially great relationship that could that could have existed. Um, so i did not want to eliminate that possibility for her if if he’d read this and said, well, you know, this was dug up on me and, you know, i’m uncomfortable with this, and i’m walking away from this organization hey, you know, clearly it was in his past, everything had, you know, all fine has been paid, and as i said on time, his concert, i just felt that it could end up, um, severing the relationship ultimately, and i didn’t want to several relationship before it even began, since they’re you know they’re may not have been any issues in the future. I just told her to tread carefully. You always have in the back of your mind what the donor or dahna prospect might think if they were to read this in the organizations report that you had written, yeah, it was absolutely there was the same reason i don’t like to delve into divorce records. Yeah, well, now i can see how that wouldn’t belong, but alright, it’s, just interesting. You always have this in mind that what would happen if the person were to read this about themselves in the organ in the organization’s files are always thinking away. Okay, interesting. And what what happened in that case? Did they end up inviting the person to be on the board? Do you know, or did they not? They did. They ultimately did, but i don’t think they put him in a treasurer position immediately. You know, i’m not sure down the line if that ended up coming to fruition, but it was certainly at least something that the executive director needed to be aware of. Excellent. Okay, excellent story. Thank you. Um, this all, you know sort of brings up also the the potential, the discretion, really, that google is goingto have and other search engines as they have to comply with this. The way i read the description i read, i didn’t read the court’s decision itself, but the description i read was that, you know, there’s some vague description or vague direction about, um, what google should consider inappropriate and what not, but but but nothing’s very, very specific. And so that leaves a lot of discretion for google as to whether something like what you described still belongs. I mean, it still could be very relevant, even though it’s in the past, you know, i mean, history is all in the past, we we were studying history all the time. So just because something is in the past google and detrimental to the person, google could still very well determine that that that belongs under that person’s search results, right? So now people are wondering, you know, it’s a matter of fact, i read an article that was in a may fifteenth edition of yusa today where, you know, they talked about, you know, that the court basically is here is blaming the messenger and, you know, this person had this, you know, situations in their path, google was simply giving you access to the information, and you know it e if if reputations can now be somehow, you know, as they’re calling it in this article, airbrushed on demand, right, you know, you’re going to have to think about, you know, well, it’s people who have done things, you know, maybe doctors who have botched surgeries and you just think about the implications of all the types of people that would be thinking about having this this shady past erased there’s just a scary amount of discretion that google has because the past is still relevant, but maybe some things are irrelevant howto how do you decide what’s relevant to other people and what’s not the other? The other very interesting thing about this is the information isn’t going away it’s not going to be removed from the internet if that’s even possible it’s just going to be removed from a search result with that from of that person’s name. So there really is a matter of fact, the very newspaper articles that this spaniard, you know, was it sat about still exist on the internet, more people have probably read the articles now than otherwise would have ever read them if he hadn’t brought to court. Um and so the articles still exists. It’s just getting to the articles by searching on this individual’s name is something that has been or will be very soon i’m not sure if it was removed or not, but i think it may be it wass at this point, but, you know, is you. Yeah, data is probably still going to exist. But as a prospect researcher, your main starting point is always with a person’s name. That’s. Why? I was wondering how this was really going to affect donorsearch research. I mean, we have a lot of institutions. Buy-in particularly hyre ed, that do their research. Donors who reside in europe, right. So you’ve got people who come to this country for their education on they go back or people who started, you know, as a u s citizen and are now living is expats in another country, so you know the borders being as fluid as they are. You can imagine, i know, maybe a very small social service organisation non-profit might not be in that situation as they’re researching their donors, because for the most part, they’re serving a geographic region and their donors come from that very small, smaller pool of people. But larger organizations that serve that our international and it doesn’t even have to be hyre ed, imagine the wise of the world or united ways we have to go out for a break. When we come back, marie and i are going to keep talking about this, and we’re gonna move teo, subject of the donors right to privacy and the code of ethics around around prospect research. So stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively clamber station top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. And i’m tony martignetti and with me is maria simple, the prospect finder, maria appa ra, the association of prospect researchers for advancement, they have something to say about donorsearch they dio there, they actually on their web site a statement of ethics, and i’d be glad to provide that link to your tear listeners. Tony on your facebook page, okay, we’ll put that after the takeaways. Yes, yeah, sure. And so the main pages apra home dot org’s a pr, a home dot org’s and so there, you know, that is the association that most professional prospect researchers would align with and rely on for their professional development. So there is a statement of ethics that the opera has and, you know, accountability and practice as well. I mean, i’m looking at one specific line that they have in their code of ethics around practice. It says that, you know, they shall on ly record data that is appropriate to the fund-raising process and protect the confidentiality of all personal information at all times dahna so, you know, they take donor-centric mation is safeguarded at their organizations password protect the software, for example, making sure that only people who need access to that information are going to get the access to the information. Well, let’s, go back to this donor. The confidentiality. I mean, how do you protect the person’s confidentiality when your task is to prepare research about the person? I mean, at the top of the page is the person’s name and, um the pages are loaded with stuff about the person. How do you how do they balance what they mean their protect confidentiality? So you want to make sure that on ly the people who need access to this information to advance fund-raising are going to have access to the information. First of all, the information is all derived from publicly available sources, right? So google obviously is one of those publicly available sources that we get information from. We’ve talked about hundreds of those on the show. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so what? You go to a lot of different sources to gather the information and bring it all together? The role of the prospect researcher is, too. Take all of that information, wade through it and come up with a concise profile. Most of the time, the information is is going to be embedded right into the donor record because then you can pull the reports, you know, as you need in the donor software, when i’m preparing the profiles, i just do it in a word document so that they can easily cut and paste the information and if if if, need be into their at their end. Obviously, i don’t have access to donor software that my clients are using, so you want to be sensitive to then who you’re emailing these two i don’t mean you as the prospect. Well, i don’t mean you personally, but the prospect researcher and they may very well in a smaller midsize shop not even be devoted to prospect research, so that let’s say, right, the person doing this research on donors and potential donors, you want to be very conscious of who you’re emailing these reports, too, right? As who has access to the to the next two folders where these prospekt reports are stored? Yes, absolutely mn it, and then you can imagine a situation where you get your development committee together and you’re doing perhaps some sort of peer review sessions so you might have printed profiles or data pieces of data pertaining to these individuals on the table, you know, every every development office really should have a good shredder in the office, and i would really encourage people not to allow boardmember sze some other volunteers involved in the development process tow, walk out with hard copies because you just don’t want this information, you know, floating around out there that’s very good admonition caution? Yeah, that that where the hard copies go and then they end up in the person’s office or home or something. Yeah, right? Yeah. Okay, talking about shredders, you know, i can’t stand seeing those shredders where it’s like quarter inch strips like a four year old could put those back together if if they wanted to there’s quarter inch long strips. I mean, you should get at least cross cut, if not the not the ones that make those little little paper tiny bullets, which you’re supposed to be impossible to put back together, right? And there are companies that you can hyre depending on how much you really have to shred, there are companies that you can you can hire to do shredding. I think that even in local companies like u p s stores. They have shredders located within those facilities, maybe even staples. I’m not sure i know ups does, but, you know, there are places that you can go then and taken have it securely shredded. So that might be something to consider. If you do have an awful lot, maybe maybe your office’s air moving and suddenly you find that. Okay, you’ve got files and files from maybe past years, and now things are going all electronic. What are you going to do with all of this? You don’t want to move it right, because you might not need to bring all of that old data with you, but yet it contains some potentially, you know, sensitive information that people would not want just floating around out there. Yes. And as you mentioned, there are services where they’ll just place a bin in your office. And then when it fills up, you call them and then they come and shred it and they and they give you back the empty bin. Yeah, what else? What else you thinking around? We’ve just about another minute or so. What else around this data? Data? Privacy and confidentiality? Well, again, just making sure that everything is very well password protected on lee allow people have access to the donor, soft to your donordigital base that absolutely needed shred anything that is printed and keep on top of what’s happening with this with this particular law that that occurred in the european union. And just you know what? Maybe you know, i will of course keep on top of it, tony, and weaken maybe revisited as things develop, even if we make it part of, you know, a small piece of the future show, but i think that that non-profits do need to be aware that this is out there and see the potential for its effect in the united states ask and you’ll you’ll be most successful, i think, in searching if you look for right to be forgotten, maria, thank you very much. Thank you, tony. My pleasure, maria simple. The prospect finder on twitter she’s at maria simple. Her sight is the prospect finder dot com next week, cindy gibson, our grants fund-raising contributor on the logic model, and deborah sharp from non-profit technology conference on user personas. If you missed any of today’s show, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam lever, which is our line producer, shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing on the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. The music is by scout stein of brooklyn, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Yeah. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving nothing. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. 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It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking. Bonem