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Nonprofit Radio for June 2, 2017: Get Creative & Get Tech Buy-In

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Lissa Piercy: Get Creative

Lissa Piercy

Thought about poets and other artists as part of your board meetings, trainings and conferences? How about open mics? Lissa Piercy reveals why you need to consider these and how to get them done. She’s executive director at Strength of Doves. (Originally aired 11/20/15)

 

 

 

Norman Reiss: Get Tech Buy-In

You need to stay ahead of tech trends–or at least even. Norman Reiss reveals how to get the buy-in and acceptance you need for your new technology decisions, from your board, leadership and end users. He’s project manager for technology at the Center for Court Innovation. (Originally aired 5/29/15, from the 2015 Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d get slapped with a diagnosis of diagnosis if i became predisposed to the idea that you missed today’s show get creative thought about poets and other artists as part of your board meetings, trainings and conferences. How about open mikes? Lissa piercy reveals why you need to consider these and how to get them done she’s executive director at strength of doves this originally aired on november twentieth, twenty fifteen and now get buy-in technology is ever changing, and you need to keep up. Norman reese reveals how to get the buy-in and acceptance you need for your new technology decisions from your board, leadership and and users. He’s, project manager for technology at the center for court innovation this is from the twenty fifteen non-profit technology conference and originally aired on may twenty ninth. Twenty fifteen i’m tony steak too take time for yourself. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling. Bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here is lissa piercy with get creative, dr a trip or journey in a car also an internal, biologically determined urge to attain or satisfy a need. It is after ten p m on a friday night, and i’m standing alone in a laundry room in boulder, colorado, a student in a social entrepreneurship program my whole life is waiting for me back in boston, i am watching the live stream of a national poetry slam competition. I am watching the first poet i added to our roster win a national poetry slam competition. I am fist pumping the air, i am stomping my foot, i’m screaming to an empty room. I’m remembering yesterday when i questioned why i had taken on the task of starting a business in the first place. I am crying and smiling and balancing computer and cell phone and laundry and coffee and laughing because this is what a start up looks like when i opened my computer one hour before tomorrow on a friday night and cringe at the emails that all seem urgent that all scream no sleep when the coffee wears off and the grant application start to blur when the mission feels miles away from my office when my office is really just a coffee shop or a living room or a kitchen, when i stare at spreadsheets that looked like foreign language, like potential failure or future like risk, risk a situation involving exposure to danger. Also, every time i have ever followed my gut, sometimes you’ve just got to throw out the plan and follow your gut, grit, courage and resolve strength of character. Also small, loose particles of stone or sand. And some days i feel like sand small enough to slip through the cracks of this foundation i am building. In those moments, i think of the poet who risks reputation on a national stage to proclaim her love of women. The poet who tells the story of her sexual assault so that a girl in a middle school classroom can finally feel safe confessing the violation of her body. The poet who rejects gender pronouns and reminds me that this world has never been binary. The poet who run straight into vulnerability and somehow comes out stronger for her honesty. These poets so purpose into fists i wanted. To raise at a world that took my father away, these poets raised their hands up don’t shoot taught me to proclaim don’t shoot in my name, these poets, the heart of these poets heart hollow, muscular organ also the center or innermost part of something. And aren’t we all just trying to find the innermost part of something? It took poetry and entrepreneurship for me to find the innermost parts of me. Lissa piercy she is co founder and executive director at strength of doves, an agency which is itself a non-profit the represents socially conscious, activist spoken word artists, the connect poets to venues and organizations, they’re at strength of doves dot com and lissa is at lissa poet this appears to welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for having me beautiful energy. Tell us what is the story behind that? Well, i was actually commissioned to write that poem by the center for social impact learning, which is part of a graduate program with middlebury it’s, located in monterey, california, and they asked me to write a poem for their launch of this social centre, so i put up a facebook status and asked my entrepreneurial friends to tell me the words they think of when they think of social entrepreneurship, and i got a bunch of words and a lot of number in that poem, so dr grit risk. And so then i put a poem together for the launch of their center, and the name of the poem is is called dr excellent. All right, so we’re talking about maur creativity inside your organization outside the organization, using poets and other artists to sort of open things up. Yeah, and let’s, let’s start with, like, uh, internally intern where where might we bring in? Argast s o i think that internally creativity and a non-profit you can start with your board meetings or even just kind of your regular staff meetings. So i like to say that you know, a lot of the time we think about innovation when it comes to our programming or our products. We don’t always think about innovation when we’re thinking about how we run a meeting on a monday morning or board meeting so it can start with kind of basic creativity, like, for example, there’s, an organization called the millennium campus network, they’re bored meeting one of their board members told me recently was the best board meeting she’d ever been tio they didn’t use poetry, but what they did was they created a hackathon in their board meeting, so they were really creative about how they put the board meeting together, which i thought was fascinating. So i talked to abigail, who had created that plan, and she said that for them, creativity started with the way they set up the room. So thinking about what’s on the walls of your room in your meeting and what? What are you doing to kind of create a setting that feels different than other board meetings? Do our other monday morning meetings? I think, for example, there’s a site called button poetry, it’s, a youtube channel and there’s tons and tons of spoken word poems. They’re they’re typically about three minutes long. You could even just play a poem at the beginning of your meeting, and it opens up a part of the brain that gets you thinking in a different way, and i just think so often we look at meetings is something that we dread going to and sitting through, so you start by. Infusing something different at the top of your meeting, it can really shift and change the whole energy of the meeting. Do you think it’s risky toe invite meeting participants, too? Do their own performance? No, i think actually you’ll get surprising results if you do that when i found i run open mikes at conferences, so like the opportunity collaboration, i did some stuff with the school world forum, and what i’ve found is when you invite the community to be part of being creative, they bring inside you, that you didn’t know that they had, and often those things can actually be used to infuse organization with new life. So yeah, bring in, bring in creativity from people that already you’re sitting at those meetings with you for sure, and we’ll see another side of people. Yeah, absolutely. It may not be poetry, i don’t know. It might be a song. It might be a guitar that they play someone’s a drummer. Someone has a poem and someone else plays behind them. I mean, the options are endless when you bring in creativity in new ways. You mentioned opportunity collaboration, which is very collaborative and that’s where we met just like a month or so ago six weeks ago. Roughly, yeah, in mexico. Yeah. And i run there open mike every year. And i talked teo jory and aunt over the team that puts it on every year. And they said that one of the reasons why they like having the open mic is that it brings collaboration in a new way on people rave about it because they get to see those different sides of people. Also, something that i’ve often said is, you know, if you meet me and we talked for five minutes, you might find out that i live in boston or that i run strength of does you’re not going to know intimate details of my life if you see me perform at an open mic, you know how hard it was to start my business, you know, personal details about losses that i’ve been through, and we connect in a deeper way, and then collaboration is richer because we care about each other as people, not just his business partners in a collaborative, collaborative setting. Listening to dr, we learned some very intimate details about your dad’s death. Okay, very energizing, right? Well, let’s, go out for a break when we come back. Listen, i’m going to continue, of course, talking about getting creative. We’ll have live, listener, love, et cetera. Stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent live listener love got st louis, missouri, brooklyn, new york and new york, new york new york’s checking in excellent lovett i’ve listener love yes, let’s go abroad always have very loyal seoul, south korea of listeners. Remarkable. I don’t know if it’s the same person all the time where people it’s multiple multiple in seoul, anya haserot for mexico city, very close to where listen and i first met because we were in x top a at the opportunity collaboration we were talking about mexico city. Welcome live listen her love to you. What can i do? Keitel look it’ll there was my husband. Thank you anytime and also in japan, tokyo and osaka checking in konnichi wa live listener loved all of our live listeners and of course, we never forget affiliate affections for our multiple many am fm stations throughout the country. Affections if you’re listening on the terrestrial stations and oh that’s, ah, terrestrial affection! I gotta work on that there’s something there on dh station, affection, terrestrial and also podcast pleasantries never forget the podcast listeners over ten thousand painting houses, washing dishes whatever it is you’re doing as you listen pleasantries to the podcast audience. Okay, listen. Thank you for helping. Yeah. Now i have tried to get with any time spanish mexico city that’s. Why? I like opportunity collaboration because i get to be i get to speak spanish more than i do on my regular day to day life. Do you do to poetry in spanish? I have a couple of lines in spanish in my poems. Everyone smile in my international women’s day poem. I talk about the venezuelan constitution so i say constitution the venezuela but i typically i like there’s a line about using spanish because i’m not of dissent. That is latin at all. So i’m careful about how okay? You know what, that’s a much larger conversation about appropriation. And don’t betray yourself appropriately. You would feel yes, exactly. Um all right. So, let’s, keep talking about eso these internal. This idea of board meetings? Yes. Now i have had a lot of guests recommend. In fact, one michael davidson was just ah last last week recommending having people who are benefiting from your services come and deliver a presentation at every board meeting. Yeah. So they are sharing fashion their tears about how your organization saved their lives, improved their life, you know, maybe there’s some creativity there, you could ask someone like that to do a performance instead of just read some paragraphs. Yeah, so one thing that i think is really important to note is, especially with organizations that are working organisations working with youth tons toe already think about maybe creativity, poetry, open mikes. It doesn’t only need to be youth there’s a lot of opportunity to do some writing workshops in any demographic i really believe, and if you’re producing content like that, you can have someone come in. It also, though, gives the opportunity to let’s say, you’re an organization a non-profit that’s working outside of the united states, but your board is primarily in the united states. If you do a writing project with the people that you’re working with on the ground and you bring back some of those writing samples and they’re available on the table during the board meeting during the coffee break, that’s the kind of thing that people in your board can look at even if you don’t have time to be reading. Their material or having a guest come into the actual board meeting. Okay, i mean, even in that case, you could have maybe someone who’s trained reading those store absolutely a voice artist, something like that freshbooks rather than just the one dimensional reading painting with a broad what else? Any other ideas? You know, the internal internal creativity as well. So one thing that comes to mind is, you know, every organization faces kind of pain points, things that they’re struggling with. There are a lot of conversations now around diversity, and how do you talk about diversity within organizations? There are other challenges the leadership changes that happen or, you know, anything that happens internally. I really think that that organization should think about looking to more creative ways of having conversations around those tough things. Later on in the show got loose on this. Gomez, who the really amazing poet with the dialogue arts project, is going to be reading a poem on air and their organization will come in and do a full training. And they use spoken word poetry at the top of the training to get everyone’s kind of juices flowing, and then they do trainings around diversity around pain points within organization? So for those organizations that are going through maybe a transitionary moment or need some kind of a different training instead of just checking the box with oh, we talked about diversity, think about looking for creative wri sources that are out there to bring into those training’s you’ll have a better experience and your staff won’t feel like you’re just checking the diversity box, which i think is really important. Am i out of touch if i keep saying poets instead of spoken word artist? No, no, i have i missed twenty fifty five. I missed the change of century, i think. First, i think the biggest distinction that often happens is a slam poet versus a spoken word poet. Slam poetry is a form of spoken word it’s a competitive style of spoken word at least that’s the way i distinguish. But yeah, spoken reports are definitely poets the way that i think about it and this definition is different depending on who you talk to is spoken word or performance poetry is performed from like the tip of your pinkie toe to the tip of your finger out. The top of your head and you can also be a written poet that is publishing books as well. We’re also thinking about how am i presenting this poem beyond the page and that’s? Kind of what a spoken word are a performance poet is doing in my definition of it. Okay, so so if i say a spoken word artist. Yeah. That’s that’s what? I mean, that could be the same as poet or official versus slam performer. Yes, exactly. Slam is dafs. Yeah. How did americans turned poetry into a competition sport? Well, it’s gotten a lot more people paying attention to it. That’s for sure. So hey, that’s, it started. It originated in chicago. A guy named mark smith who is a construction worker, and then here in new york. There’s the moth that’s like storytelling. There’s also the nia recon is another location that does poetry slams your recon. Say it one more time. You knew your weekend. Okay, mahogany brown is a poet. She’s actually on our roster. And she’s, an amazing poet who hosts their poetry, slams their team when you compete against their team. You come prepared, let me tell you. Okay, new. York has some great poets. Okay, now, what’s your background. You have. Ah, what zoho around? Yeah. How did you get into poetry? I started doing open mikes in college after i lost my dad and i went through two and a half years where i lost seven people in my life. And this is a lot of grief and poetry was the only thing that could really motivate me to get out of bed and go to things. I was running the open mic group on my college campus and then actually turned down the opportunity to apply for a fulltime social work job to figure out how more of these amazing social change poets could be earning a living from their poetry. And now we have strength of doves where we put poets in performance opportunities and workshop opportunities toe to really bring this to kind of communities that haven’t necessarily thought about spoken word poetry as a tool because it really is a tool. And the other thing i’ll say is the reason i think spoken word in particular. I think all forms of art are important and open up our brains in new ways. Spoken word. Is extremely accessible, so a really strong spoken word artist, in my opinion, is using poetry and using language in a way that someone who’s maybe never thought that they liked poetry or never thought of themselves as a creative person before can now access a really creative art form and begin to open up the idea from themselves that, hey, maybe i could write, or maybe i can open up this creative thing, but what do we say to the people whose eyes glaze over? Oh, poetry it so it’s beyond may i don’t get it, you know, it just doesn’t reach me. Listen to to watch two videos on button poetry or go search dialogue, arts, project poets, strength of doves, poets i really have never seen it happen where someone said, i don’t like poetry on when it’s exposed to a couple of videos and said, i still don’t like poetry, it’s just not what you’re thinking of when you think of poetry. If you had a boring english class on poetry, poetry does not need to be born. I promised give me a subject that you like, email me a subject you like and i will. Send back a poem that you will like about that subject. Okay? Do you want to show your email? Oh, yeah. It’s lyssa at strength of does dot com. Okay, listen, l i s s yes, challenge me. I guarantee i will be able to draw you in with someone. Else’s problems. Okay. Cool. Let’s go outside our organization just like a mirror. So before going to bring in carlos yeah. Conferences, galas, gallant fund-raising events. Why are fund-raising haven’t still boring. I’m sorry if i’m offending anyone out there, but i just think we need to address this. So these gallows where you have a dinner, any of a bunch of speeches and so there’s a moment at a lot of these events where, you know, people are eating dinner and kind of talking to each other, and then you want to get everyone’s attention. So someone clicks on a glass, someone in charge of the organization says, welcome, everyone kind of turns their attention begrudgingly to the stage, and then they’re a bunch of speeches sometimes there’s really fascinating stuff in those speeches, but we’re not really our attention isn’t necessarily drawn immediately to the stage. The person saying welcome, welcome zoho please hide me. I wanna hear my gladstone brandraise oversignt neo-sage chimes here in a fancy paint none none bungalow. Exactly. So it’s dead. I think everyone should try finding a spoken word poet and putting them on that stage. That’s, the way you get people’s attention don’t even say welcome like we just opened our secondly, just drive a trip or journey in a car really loud, really punchy everyone’s going to turn to you if you want to go a step further, you can hire a poet to write a commission to poem about your organization. And now in three minutes you’ve explained everything you’re doing. You’ve got everyone’s attention and you just invested all this money and all this time in creating this event. Don’t you want to vent the people going to talk about after the fact they’re going to be more likely to talk about it? If it’s different bringing a poet? And if you don’t for some reason believe, listen with all their energy and zeeland enthusiasm, think about what happened in beginning this segment we threw you in with lissa was completely different different format you said you turned into what? What is that? The same way, like college did it with their marketing campaign recently. All right, we got carlos andres gomez, award winning poet member of the dialogue arts project, on twitter, he’s at carlos. A g live. Is there anything you want to introduce before before carlos carlos, let me say, just say, welcome, welcome to the show so much. Tony thinks my brother carlos eyes everything you want to say. I just want for everyone out there. That’s not, you know, always listening to spoken word. This is such an amazing opportunity. Godless is kind of a titan in the community and just does really amazing work, using poetry to have really important conversations. Carlos, please, thank you so much. This poem is called stansted. I’m holding my friend gino’s hands and asking the army recruiter for more information about the marines. Please, i say he fits with his cufflinks, pause it, his necklace through his shirt drags the back of his hand across the close shaven sand paper of his chin. Gino is staring him down through the island. Artie wears like a middle finger. We watched a stranger caught between the train movements of a machine and the churn butter in his body. Just like mine. Two months before, when i said, hell no toe a trip to the gay club, i just don’t want to leave anyone on it be like colonizing the space, i said which sounds a lot better than i’m uncomfortable i wouldn’t know how to stand what do i do if a song i like come on in zambia i walked the dirt roads of a slum my pinky finger intimately wraps around the smallest digit of the most infamous guy on the block. He was my friend. It is how friends walked the streets there. When i greet my iranian friend’s father, we embrace chief twice in thailand. My host casually patted my leg the first family dinner, i nearly jumped out the window, thinking he was reaching for something else. Everyone laughed, probably confused as to why this strange foreigner had been trained to be so foreign to the gentle touch of a man. A passer by gives me and gino matching name i tongue the word around in my mouth. Feel the tender sting, make a home in my torso, stare at the word brotherhood splayed across the camouflage banner. The recruiter stares down the table, and though it holds the secret code to life’s, great questions, it’s corrected, stutter and suddenly overcompensating stands blend into the decorations behind. So much so that i can barely even tell he is still there. He pretended, if we are not, begin sorting and then re sorting the three lonely pamphlets dwarfed by the large rectangular table where they now six boys. Please. I’m just doing my job. His mouth bags in a voice so small and so human. It makes me feel like i have just blurted out a secret. This man has given his life to guard like freedom. Carlos andres gomez! Carlos, thank you so much. Thanks. Kottler thank you so much. Let’s. Send tony. I don’t know why i have watery eyes. I just first listen, you know, i would need to think about it more, but but it moved me because i do so that’s the kind of thing that dialogue arts project workshop would start with wood with poems to kind of open up a new space in everyone’s head and kind of i mean, the energy, even in this room, while we’re listening here in the studio, just comes down and there’s cubine start having conversations about your own experiences that can lead into deeper conversations for more shared understanding within your organization. Carlos, we have just like, a minute and a half or so. Do you want to share anything about that? About the poem? Yeah, sure. I mean, i think there’s there’s so much to be there’s. Someone is so easy to have a very i think superficial, topical conversation if we if we wantto engage someone about gender sexuality or any of these huge hot button issues or topics or anything related to identity and i think the biggest thing that dialogue arts project believes, is that using personal narrative and using something artistic as a medium for that personal narrative that is the most that is the most, i think dynamic way to enter a conversation, because that that holds the true story right about me walking down the main walk with the university of pennsylvania, and i think me telling that story it immediately invites other people that share stories in a way that that i think invites people into a vulnerable space, as opposed to having an intellectual discussion that doesn’t have any stakes involved and ultimately is not a meaningful conversation. Carlos and lissa, we have to leave it there. Excellent cardinals. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you, much less a piercy cofounder, executive director at strength of doves, its strength of doves dot com and again on twitter she’s at lissa poet thank you, thank you. Thanks a lot. Now get buy-in with norman. Reece is coming up first. Pursuant. Their newest content paper is called breakthrough fund-raising it’s free. It walks you through break through thinking where you will learn three things first how to solve the challenges that are facing your non-profit second, how to set a breakthrough outcome and number three how to create a culture of breakthrough in your office there are some good ideas in this paper it’s called breakthrough fund-raising you download it at pursuant dot com and then quick re sources and content papers always free love that and we’d be spelling spelling bees that raise money. It’s a fun night out at a local place and it’s not your seventh grade spelling bee. Good thing for that for me, i got knocked out on the word lettuce. I know exactly how to spell let us, but you can’t make any mistakes and i said, you have to say it and then you spell it and then you got to repeat it again after as i said, let us l u e t you see, let us two, eight knocked out it can’t make any mistakes and the winning word the winning word was aeronautical a r o n a t e and a u t i c a l i would i would’ve got it alot if i made that mistake, i wouldn’t have got it, but i probably would have made it i could have made it to earn article, but i got screwed on lettuce anyway. You need to raise more money. You can do it with we’ll be spelling. Check out the video at we b e spelling dot com now time for tony’s take two memorial day has passed. We are into summer whether you’re ready or not, it’s here and i really don’t care about summer solstice. This is what’s telling in emerald isle, north carolina prices have gone up and the beach stores are open. You know those you know the beach stores, those places where you, they will sell you a ninety seven dollars beach towel and you get a free hermit crab and you spray it with water and it dead in three days. That means summer is here and it’s. Time to take time for yourself. I hope you’ve booked time away already. If not, you need to get on it. The point is getaway decompress. Get away from the office where you’re not checking e mail, voice mail or texts. If you want to do your best work in the social sector and taking care of other people you need to take care of yourself? Nobody of this week because i took time off just some friendly advice. That is tony’s take two here’s norman reese with now get buy-in. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference and tc fifteen day too. We’re austin, texas in the convention center. My guest is norman reese he’s project manager technology at the center for court innovation. Norman welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Good to have your first time. Um, your topic is winning one hundred percent buy-in from staff and board for your next non-profit technology adoption that’s a that’s. A real narrow niche, but critical if we’ve gotten, we’ve decided that we need new software and we’ve gone through the due diligence and the process of identifying the right new software for us, whether it’s, cr, m or accounting or combined. Now we need everybody to agree with us. Where do we start? I think sometimes when you you pick out a new system there’s somehow this assumption that the board and the management are all behind it. And in reality, that’s not always the case or even if it is the case. Things can change once the project is planned or once the project that started, so it really has to be something that’s, a continuing effort that even even if you take the time and you get people on board at the beginning and they fully support, you know, and they’ve been with you through the process, yeah, to really check in with them while the processes going on and make sure that they haven’t been diverted by other things. Or that as new people come in two management or to the board that they don’t suddenly have a change of heart. So it’s really kind of crucial to make sure that a system actually is goingto have the result that you’re hoping for when you when you first selected. Yeah, all right, so we can have sometimes turncoats. They’ve been with us through the process, and now they’re abandoning, they get nervous or they what they feel we made the wrong decision. We made a mistake somewhere in the process, there’s so many things that could get in a way, i mean, even people with the best intentions, something just comes in that distracts them or they have a friend. That tells them about a different solution or different. So it’s really well intentioned friend. Yeah, i mean, it’s really a zoo? A technology. Is it’s really critical to build those relationships with management and with the board all the time, even before the project is even envisioned? And if you haven’t done that, if you’re operating in kind of a silo, then soon related that’s going toe that’s going to hurt you because you need to work. You need to partner with these people when you especially when you’re bringing in a new a new software platform, a new system. They have veto power? Absolutely. And they can do that any time. Yeah, yeah, i love that. You know, the friend my friend was just telling me about, you know, something we didn’t look at it. All right? So the importance of relationships even when you don’t need their buy-in the people’s buy-in but but always working together collaboratively just day to day. Absolutely. Okay. All right, all right. But that’s ah, let’s speed ahead to the process now. Like i said it there as i set it up. Um, we’ve chosen something and they’ve been part of the process we’re talking about staff from a senior staff and board getting did julie from both it’s really about working with staff that are going to be using the system as well as management as well? It’s really across the board? Because if you get the management and the board to buy-in but the staff don’t feel like they’re included, they’re not going to cooperate, and then they may not use the system once it’s rolled out. If you get the staff, but you don’t get the management and the board, then you won’t have to support you need to have a successful implementation, get the rolling. So you have to go both ways. Okay? All right. Good. Thank you for straightening me out. All right. How are we going, toe? How do we start this? Well, assuming we’ve had this these good relationships all along, but now there’s some some defectors or where it was the best way to start the but the topic together. I think probably just the initial stages when your first envisioning that you need something new. Whether it’s a replacement for something you already have. Where something entirely new that you’re imagining for your organization, you really need to being you need to be in communication with everyone about why you’re doing this, because what’s obvious to you is probably not obvious to other people, even though it may seem logical and a natural evolution, it really needs to be talked through, and different people have different ways of absorbing information. You can’t just send out an email to the staff and say, this is what we’re doing. You have to really take the time to seek out people, sometimes one on one, and explain why not only is this good for the organization, but how is how is this new system going to make their lives easier? Why should they bother? I mean, nobody. I mean, i shouldn’t say nobody, but most people have problems with change, and everybody kind of gets used even bad systems because they know, you know, they know what it’s like, they know the howto work around things that don’t work, and even though you’re introducing something that is, seems to be a clear win for the organization, not everybody has that wider focus. Some people had just focused on their own responsibilities and their own position and some people may see this as a threat because a new system may mean that some people’s jobs changed their what they need to do during the day, their routines, their routines air going, teo and and some people would see that as an opportunity. Other people will see that as a threat, and you will have people that will will try to take it down. And if you don’t try to deal with that, earl, as early as you can, it’s just going to a back fire down the road, okay? All right, so we’re explaining why and certainly including them in the process, right? Should they should should should people from all levels? I mean, maybe this is obvious, but be part of the the committee that is making the decision and hearing the hearing the different, getting the different presentations from all the different potential vendors for their b stakeholders from all well, i mean, i mean, the reality is that it’s, hard to invite have everyone at every meeting because people don’t have time, large meetings can get a little unruly, but you have to give people the opportunity to be involved, all right? And some people will take it, and some people will say they’re too busy or they’ll send a representative, but you have to find a way to make people feel like they’re part of the process if they feel like this system is being imposed upon them or that it’s being chosen by someone else who doesn’t fully understand their needs, then they’re not going to be supportive. So it’s really it’s kind of a fine balance between not having too many, but, you know, really seeking out beyond the obvious people that are going to be directly using the application. But anyone who might want to get data from the application who might want to get a report from it, it’s, usually and as a project manager, i so didn’t know you have to really seek out stakeholders foreign beyond what you initially think, because people outside the organization they’re going to be affected by this, too, and they need to have a you’re saying this is well, okay, so at a minimum, you’re keeping all the stakeholders apprised of maybe milestones in the process, okay, okay. And, you know, especially reliance on email on lee, which seems to be what? A lot of people do now, i mean that’s kind of shallow, you have tio, especially people who are different locations, you may have to go out there and actually sit down with them. We just invite him out for lunch and talk about what’s going on because the humane, i mean, i’ve seen the email reliance in my office where people said one hundred feet away from each other and they hardly ever talk to each other and that’s, you know, that’s not a good practice when you’re trying to win people’s support for a new project, yes on dh needing them to feel a part of the process and, you know, it was kind of shallow, and you’re not getting any of, you know, you don’t see the facial expression, you don’t hear the tone of voice, you know, you don’t really know, i mean, they may be saying one thing and actually feeling something entirely different. All right? What else? What other advice do you have strategies do you have for getting this this critical buy-in anything specific to the board that might not apply for staff? Anything special there? Well, every non-profit is a little different. As far as how the board works, some sometimes the board will work only with only with the d and sometimes the board has more relations with staff. But i think you just need to be aware that the board is operating in, you know, in azaz an age of management, and sometimes they will want to be actively involved. Sometimes they will have a more surface involvement. But it’s, just, i guess, just a kn awareness that that they do have a role in this and that if you ignore them suddenly, at one point a boardmember will come in and maybe drive the project in another direction because you haven’t taken the time to apprise them of what’s going on. So i think just justin awareness that they may not be in your field of vision because you don’t work with them at your office or you don’t work with them on the day to day basis, but they have to be part of part of the team. Yeah, it could be easy. Derailment from from a boardmember the way it happens all the time. Yeah. You know, you have some bad stories about that personal experiences. Well. I mean, i’ve worked in organizations where the board dealt mainly with the and the staff really weren’t even aware of, you know, things that were happening, and it didn’t seem to make sense, and until we actually found out what was going on with the board and with the and sometimes you win an organization that’s more transparent than others where you know you’re edie, will we’ll communicate well about what’s actually happening in other cases, things will be happening that you just have no awareness of, and suddenly things are going in a new direction, and you have no idea what so it’s just a matter of just taking the time especially, you know, in a technology role, which is what i do in my organization, you really need teo go beyond the tech group and make sure that you’re you’re talking with other organisations. The other thing i also just as a precaution, is that something that happened to me in the last year? You have to be really aware of your boss’s position in this whole scheme of things because you can’t be viewed as somebody who’s going around your boys or you’re trying to have a relationship with a boardmember and he’s. Not all. She is not aware of it. So you have to be respectful of who you’re working for. But on the other hand, you also have to make sure that you have relationships with people other than your boss, because your boss could leave tomorrow. And then your future with the organization will depend on those other relationships you’ve built or not. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re doing another workshop at ntc on getting people to actually use the technology that that is adopted yes, that’s it flows perfectly from this so let’s let’s spend the next well the rest of it, we’re about ten minutes or so together about half our time. Perfect talking about getting people to use it once it so now we’re past the decision stage and it’s implemented. Is that where we are now? And yeah, i know and this i’m really going by my own experience. I’ve been in my car enroll for almost four years now, and i’ve had a couple of situations where we rolled out systems that we thought rolled, you know, when everything went, you know, as expected, and we checked in with the users later on, and we found out that they had gone back to their old system, that they were going back to excel, and that’s really it’s really it’s a point it’s really? I mean, i found that you can have the best technical solution which you know which seems to make perfect sense, and it’s a good future path for the organisation, but because people don’t feel like it’s there’s, nothing. In it for them that they just and the other thing is that if you don’t take the time to actually beyond sight with people and again, this goes back to what i was saying before about over reliance on email if you if you have different sites that are going to use the system, as most organizations do now, you have to actually go over there and talk to people, and sometimes people will say different things in one on one than what they’ll say in the group, so you just can’t, you know, just hold a meeting and just invite everybody and say, ok, what do you think you’re gonna have to go over and actually sit with people on dh watched and talked to them at their desks? You may need to get them out of the office where they feel safer to talk without people overhearing a conversation saying, well, what’s really going on here because it’s really a shame to go through the process of vent this election and months and a lot of organization, money and time has been devoted a and then russia and then three, six months, three to six months later. In the same position again, you’re back using the old system. So if again, i mean, this sort of goes back to what we were talking about before if people haven’t bought into the whole idea of why they doing this and not only that is that people need you need to get training on our ongoing basis, you can’t just go in the day after you roll out of systems, okay? We’re going to train you for the next week and then disappear. You need to be on site on a regular basis because people move around, they leave new people come in or people forget and you can say, oh, i gave them documentation, but, you know, we know nobody’s going to really read that stuff, so you need to really probably plan a good chunk of time after the rollout to be on site, working through problems, because no matter how much you plan, always things come up that need to be need to be work, work through and if you take the time to plan for that and you don’t just immediately say, okay, i’m wolf on another project now and good luck to you and you need to take some responsibility for that. I mean, it doesn’t happen by itself. All right, all right. What? Ah, we still have plenty of time together. What else in the in the use of the technology, other other strategy’s tips you have for ensuring it’s going to be used? What else can we say about that? Ah, well, just in the conversations i’ve had with some other people since i got here this week here in austin, you need to take the time to really go through the business processes that you’re trying to deal with in this system early earlier in the in the in the selection and understanding back-up back-up that at the time that you’re really thinking about let’s, say you, you be the picked the system or you’re you’re at the final stages, you need to really understand what you’re trying to achieve and what the workflow looks like in the organization and it’s very hard to know that and the other tips that does that mean? Well, before we get to another tape, old, you got your brimming with tips, but wait, let’s, dive into this one. That means spending time with them. Watching them in their processes well, sitting side by side, maybe you made you probably want to do that because what i found is that there are some situations where i would talk to the manager of a group on dh she or he would tell me that, you know, they need certain things, you know? And then i find out later that the actual people who were sitting at the computer is doing the data entry. They really don’t do things the way that the manager things they so then i get involved in in between the staff and the manager, and that can be a tricky situation as well. But it’s better work to find that out early and to get the trying to get your staff on the same page, then to roll out a system based on what a manager tells you only to find out that the staff that work for that manager actually have a whole different view of what they’d like to really have it in a system. Yeah. So the end user the actual yeah, hands on keyboards. Those are the people you want to be talking to and and maybe even observing yeah, i mean, ideally, if you could spend some time just shattering them as they do as they go through their day, then i don’t kind of really tell you what’s really happening because it’s one thing to talk through it, it’s another thing to actually spend a week or spend a couple of days out of sight and see what people are dealing with and see how one of the other things that i found out is that ah, there’s sometimes other systems in the mix that people are dealing with. I ruled out a system about a year ago that people weren’t using, and i found out later that there was a hole of the system that they were required to use because of a grant that we had. The grant required them to put data in this other place, and you have no idea i had no idea, i mean, that nobody nobody mentioned it, and it didn’t occur to me to ask that question. But now i, you know, when i’m doing a new project, i was make sure to ask, what other systems do you maintain and sometimes those other systems, maybe paper to mean, surprisingly enough not, you know, there are a lot of people who don’t want to give up the traditional tools and sometimes it’s what works fine with a small system will not work fine as it grows and that’s just a growing pain, sometimes of an organization that wants toe really centralized data. And, again, what’s obvious too to ah, tech team that, you know, that’s looking at all the sexy things that are available now, a lot of people don’t feel that way back on the ground, the ground so you really need to respect their where they are. You have another tip that you were going, you’re going to throw out and i made us dive into the the one about the end users probing the end users more. What else? Well, this one i actually think i included in my block i have a blogged that i thought for several years now what non-profit bridge, where i talk about technology and communications and fund-raising and something i blogged about recently was that we were working with a vendor that wasn’t quite getting what we needed, so we literally just took we took screens and we annotated them and we we showed them, is that this is exactly what we want, and sometimes you actually need to use graphics and visuals to to show on. It also helps you kind of work through the process of how the workflow is so really giving that kind of documentation to a consultant or a vendor or anybody who’s helping you implement a new system. I can really help them understand, because you can’t expect someone who comes into and works with you for two or three months on ana implementation to fully get what your organization is about. So it’s, really your responsibility to educate them on this is what we need, and this is how we need to do it. And, you know, some of the same way that you need to over communicate with staff to make sure that you deal with people who like to absorb information in different ways. You need to you need to make sure that your vendor or consultant really understands your business needs and how your business works and and whatever that method is, whether it’s, extensive conversation or you need a diagram it but it’s really not the vendors responsibility. To get it, it’s it’s, your responsibility to know your business well enough that you can explain it to someone and have them really, really understand it. Okay? We have just like a minute or so men and a half left anything. Well, i’m sure there is so throughout some or whether it’s ah it’s getting the buy-in or getting the users to use the new technology sheriff there’s a more. Well, one thing i would definitely advise people if you’re not already part of this and ten community, this is the place to be, because very often, when you get wrapped up in a project and you only see things in the vision of your own organization, you need to talk to other people from other places that it doing similar things that you are and just being here for three days and just having conversations with people on how are they dealing with similar situations, approaches that you may not have thought of on your own? You need to really be in in the community. And the great thing about being here at ntc is that you actually can see people and have the conversation. I mean, you can’t do everything on social media and on email, and you need to sometimes just pick up the phone and talk to someone and this is a great environment and if anyone who’s there who’s not taking advantage of this community, especially small on non-profits they don’t have a lot of resource is important to know it’s, not only for technologists and absolutely no intent is not only in fact, one of the reasons i like and ten is that it’s, not it and it’s sort of like the way my block covers communications and fund-raising if you look at the session is that we have in, they cover a wide gamut for people who do different roles in a non-profit so there’s something here for everyone, and i would really recommend that if even if if you’re not here at ntcdinosaur year there’s, a lot of other ways to be involved in the end ten were very active and it’s very rare, and i’ve been a member for years. It’s very rewarding, excellent, good shot latto intern our hosts and ten and they’re at inten dot or ge auntie em and yeah, as well as the online they have. A lot of there. There are meet ups throughout the country. Small, small groups meeting lots of places. School. Thanks, norman. We’re going to leave it there. All right. Okay. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Good to have you. Norman reese, project manager in technology for the center for court innovation. And this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of and tens and tc the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen. Thank you so much for being with us next week. What business is that of yours? I’ll do whatever the hell i want. This is my show. I’m in command. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. Our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Buddy mcardle is our am and fm outreach director. The show’s social media is by susan chavez. And this music is by scott stein do with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff sort of dane toe add an email. Address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were. And, uh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for May 12, 2017: Your Cyber Risk & Beyond Online To IRL

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Marc Schein: Your Cyber Risk

Bad things can happen to all that data you store on donors, volunteers, employees, vendors and others. But, there are ways to minimize your risk and protect your nonprofit if a breach occurs. Marc Schein of Marsh & McLennan Agency shares his wisdom.

 

 

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Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d go into burbage oration if you repeated the idea that you missed today’s show your cyber risk bad things can happen to all that data you store on donors, volunteers, employees, vendors and others, but there are ways to minimize your risk and protect your non-profit if a breach occurs, mark shine of marsh and mclennan agency shares his wisdom and beyond online. Teo i r l maria semple are prospect research contributor, and the prospect finder reminds you that ria life conversations remember those little things i can tell you so muchmore about your potential donors than online research. Plus, she has conferences you need to know about on tony’s take two i’m wagging my finger, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com here is mark shine with your cyber risk. I’m very glad to welcome mark shine to the studio he is a risk management consultant with martian mclennan agency and an authority on cyber insurance providing strategies to protect sensitive employee, customer and business information. He’s a c i c a c l c s and are i am to find out that very shortly on dh the company is at mm. A hyphen. Any dot com mark is at em. Shine that’s s c h e i n c i c c l c s mark, welcome to studio. Thank you for having me. My pleasure coming closer to mike so we can hear you even shatter. Okay, um, we won’t talk about cyber. Cyber exposure would share what is define it for us first everybody’s talking about the same thing. Sure. So when we look at a cyber attack, you know certain industries think that it has to do with a nation state coming and hacking and things of that nature which which it does it could be, which it does absolutely. Okay, but there’s other exposures that really come tto tto light as well. Three idea we look att information and the type of information that businesses or not-for-profits have. And it really falls into three silos. Person identifiable. Information. P i at nonpublic names, phone numbers, so security numbers, email addresses, physical addresses, things of that nature. Ok, then when we look at p c i, the payment card industry that’s really looking at the credit cards, how many credit cards do you have on file that kind of that kind of information? And then you take a look at p h i information, which is the health care information, and so we look at it from three different from three different segments on dh for not-for-profits when we take a look at it, typically the way that they’re asking their donors to donate is video website and when they go on to the website. Typically what we’ve seen from our clients is you have to put in your name your address, your email addresses, personal latto personal info, a tremendous amount on, and then they ask you for your credit card information in order to make the donation. So now when we look at not-for-profits several years ago, the cyber exposure didn’t necessarily exist. Now there’s certain first party legal responsibilities in the event of a data breach that these non-profits have to comply with. Ok, ok. And you mentioned a whole bunch of acronyms p c i and c i a, which i’m glad you’ve defined because i’m non-profit radio. We have george in jail and i would hate to put you in there on the outside. Sit on. It reminds me that i forgot to go back and look at your acronyms. So you’ve got a bunch of letters after your name? Yes. Ah, i see. I see what’s the c i c commercial. Certify insurance counselor. Sort of what you even get. Confuse yourself, eh? So many. So many seas after my name that yeah, there are. There are three. Ok? So certify insurance, counselor. And then you’re also a c l c s yes, commercial lines covered specialist commercial lines covered specials. Now you must be especially proud of those because those were in your twitter id. Yes. Okay, but then rim what’s his rimming work. You know, what’s rim. I’m not sure what the rim that you’re referring grimm are i am response. The responsible that rim counts. I sit on the rim. Counsel for the pondimin institute, which is the leading organisation for cyber stats in the country. Cyber stats open among latto department institute looks like pokemon but it’s not a problem on that end. Exactly. Okay on dream is responsible information management correct at the pokemon that the bonem mind the parliament, its ottoman parliament. Sorry. Alright. Thank you. Okay, um all right. So we’ve got your credentials are clear. You got a lot of letters, a lot of professional certifications. All right, um, now i i mean, when we think of cyber breaches, i mean, i think of yahoo and target on dh even the democratic national committee meets off these highly sophisticated organizations, i think, a toast in terms of i t i would think that they are are vulnerable than surely small, a midsize non-profits have vulnerabilities to be concerned about. Sure. So so what you’re saying? And again, we’re not going to comment on any specific client just because of the nature of the business and who we are. But we’ll talk about is the exposure’s they all do face on dh. I mean, if these big organizations are at risk with yahoo five hundred million user i ds and, you know, passwords and things, right? I mean, this is so again when you’re looking at a hacker forgetting who the company is, you take a look at the breaches that are going on there now targeting the vendors of some of these larger entities because they realised that the vendors don’t have the same protocols. They don’t have the same budgets to implement the cybersecurity best practices that some of the fortune one thousand companies that you know you previously mentioned half alright, so sometimes it za something that’s, a contractor’s exactly it’s the low hanging fruit that they’re looking for. All right, so there’s a real easy. They don’t want to work any harder than anybody else does. So if they’re able to get into a smaller entity who has access into another larger entities, well, that could be the treasure so that they were just looking for okay, so that raises a good point if we are outsourcing any database management in terms of the of the type of data that you were talking about those three different categories we need to be sure that the vendors were hiring have have either insurance well, insurance, which would you’re not going to talk about and or on dh really should be end high. High levels of security. Correct. So we gotta make sure our subcontractors are vendors. Basically, you want to make sure that you’re doing your due diligence when it comes to your vendor selection. That’s a very important step on duitz something that businesses are now starting to pick up on something of march that we march my client agencies that we recommend when we’re talking to our clients and you hit the nail on the head. Ok, ok, it doesn’t happen often. So thank you for acknowledging the one of the rare instances. All right, right now, if we happen to be ah, ah, a target or a victim of ah, of a cyber exposure. I’m the first thing that occurs to me is a bad press. Yeah, what else? What? One of the risks are way suffer. I mean, not in terms of the data, but just in terms of costs and things like that. Sure. So so when you look at a data breach and you see what the average cost of a data breach was and, you know, the parliament institute, which were just reference the average cost of a data breach was about seven million dollars. In two thousand sixteen and when we look at it, what is the first party legal responsibilities that the business has or the non-profit has to do in the event of a data breach? First, they have to notify they put in a call to there hyre insurance broker they want put the carrier on notice, let him know that the possibility of a claim might be coming down the pike line. Let them work with the prefer providers that the cyber insurance provides toothy entity, then they’ll work with the data breach coach, which is the attorney who let them know what they’re for with their first party league responsibility’s ours builders that forward on then the notification because you not only have to notify the affected individuals in your non for-profit that were affected. But you also have to notify the estate attorney generals where those individuals reside as well. Okay, all right. We’re gonna unpack some of that. We got to go out for a break. Sharon, we come back, mark and i are going to keep talking about that and some of the other the hard costs of recovery. And then, of course, the ways of ensuring against a loss stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We’re talking about cyber exposure, cyber breaches and what can happen if you and your constituents are our victim with marke shine, risk management consultant with marshall mclennan agency. Okay, mark, um, before the right before the break, we return about notification. Yes. All right, you gotta let the individual’s no. Yes. And the angels that were affected, that information could be compromised. Attorney general, you mentioned so when the state where the individuals reside, you have to also notify that a state attorney general all those states exactly could be notifying fifty. Well, forty general, forty seven different states have forty seven different state breach notification laws, which make it so complicated in the event of a major breach where you have donors, you know, across multiple different sametz one of the three states where they don’t care about their residents breach of data where those three states, when the close call in after we’ll play the game and we’ll let them call in and figure out if they could guess that. Oh, way. Don’t have way don’t have life callers. Okay, you got to reveal it. Shocking. What are the three? Sure, so, it’s. Some of the provinces province’s, yes way, have forty seven different states that have it it’s. I put you on the spot. Hey, gip. No, no it’s, not a problem. Okay, i get it. I’ll get back to way. We got about fifteen or eighteen more minutes. Ok? That’s right. Just seems to me like those states aren’t protecting. Their citizens are thin this narrow respect. Okay, um, attorneys general, individuals, of course. And you mentioned carrier if you have. Ah, if you have to have a cyber insurance carrier, they have obviously no. Also, exactly. Because the cyber insurance pays for these exposed the first party legal responsibilities the notification that we just went over then the forensic cost. You need to figure out how the breach happened. What did they take? When did it stop? Did you fix the issue now? Carries will pay for the forensic investigation. You also have to provide credit monitoring for the affected individuals. Roughly about twenty dollars per an up individual to provide credit money. Let me ask you about that part. The credit monitoring that i’ve seen the breaches that i’ve been notified about. It’s so it’s. Always been a year. A year of credit monitoring could be too it’s. Okay, i guess i haven’t been lucky. I’ve always been one, so now is that? Is that really valuable? Because i’ve read that this data is actually valuable three or four years later, after it’s been sold and those of us who are the victims have for gotten about the breach, so we’d like we can’t identify where it came from because it’s like two, three, four years later and the credit monitoring is long expired, then sure is that is that true? I mean, is the data more valuable to up to a bad guy? A few years after the breach? Typically the data when it’s out in the market, it’s its most valuable when it first comes out first, comes out when he first comes out. Precisely. You know you look at you. Look at a credit card. You know my credit card has been compromised before. Where there’s been fraudulent charges the next day, my credit card provider sends me a new credit card. Right? Ok. Ok. Credit card. I could see that. But what if it’s ah, date of birth. The address, you know, maybe maybe it’s password to for ah site. I mean, does that? It doesn’t have residual value, you know. Like, years later? Sure as well, you always want to make sure that you have it for when you’re when a company is goingto offer credit monitoring in the event of a data breach, you always want to make sure the year taking the full limits of whatever they’re giving, whether it’s a year or two can information be used. Five, six, seven, ten years down the road. Yeah, absolutely. But if the entity is going to be able to provide you with two years of credit monitoring it’s better than running around without after your information was just out there compromised. Okay? And i guess in terms of the credit card example and that it would cover you that way, but usually goes get a zoo. Said it was get canceled immediately. All right. Um all right. So we’re going to get to the insurance, you know, like the details of insurance. Um, so does that. Does that cover? Like what? That cover everything that the organization should do if they do suffer a breach each. These these notifications. Anything else? So? So they provide the notifications. They deal with the data breach, coach. They could do a forensic. Investigation. You know, some entities will be responsible for pc i fines or penalties or re issuing debit cards or credit cards. The’s a role different coverages that khun b now implemented within a privacy. A network security policy within insurance when we look at most other insurance policies, whether it’s, worker’s, comp, general liability, ah, professional and, you know, exposure, whatever it may be it’s all based off of an isil form and with the ghisolf whoa jargon job. Okay, s o form. Yes, what’s s oh. So i suppose the insurance services organization on dh what they are is they basically provide a vanilla form or vanilla suggestion and each carriers than able to change it a little bit and that’s what they have done to help develop property liability auto so on and so forth, when we look at cyber, there is no isil form, so one carrier can be all the way on one side of the room offering terms and conditions. Another carrier can be all the way on the other side and the prices and the terms khun b wildly different. And the coverage is okay, okay, we’re still going to get to that. More detail. I want to flush out a little something that you mentioned now. Twice. The data breach. Coach? Yes. What is his or her job? Who is that? Sure. So typically, what happens is each insurer will have ah, panel counsel or they’ll let you select your data breach, coach. And they will walk you through what your liabilities are, who to speak to who, not to speak to what you should be saying. What? Just not what? Your first party legal responsibilities are there going to be your end? All be all guide. Okay? On dh, they come from the carrier. Typically us okay? Or recommended by the carriers, like, typically comes from a panel counsel that the carriers have already selected. Ok, ok. Um all right. So why don’t we get into a little bit of detail about, um, different types of policies now, there’s there’s to protect yourself? Particular organization? No, that i know. There’s. Cyber insurance and there’s cyber liability. These two different categories of coverage. What? We’re all interchangeable. Okay, so same thing. Really? Okay. Privacy in network security is the technical term cyber insurance or cyber liabilities? The street name, if you will. Ok, i’m a street guy. We’re going to be okay, so what what what are we looking for? If where if we want to be out in the cyber insurance policy marketplace, what features should we be looking for? Well, you think it really depends on, you know, the entity and what their concerns are, because you want to make sure that this coverage specifically is highly customized for the specific business, so one of your not-for-profits that might have five hundred employees might have a dramatically different exposure than a company who has fifty employees out in north dakota, so we need to again figure out what their true exposures are. So we work with a client like we do on a daily basis, talk to them, figure out what their risk tolerance is, because cyber insurance, although it’s a technical challenge, the risks still is transferred to an insurance carrier or it’s held within to ah, an anti itself now are their policies that are for small organizations like suppose an organization has just eight or ten employees, maybe they have fifteen hundred donors, two thousand donors, they have some credit card info that they’re saving, which i guess we’re talking about whether they really need to save it. Or just transact with it, but they’ve got they’ve got that they’ve got some personal information because they like to send paper mail as well, and they’ve got is email addresses. Is there coverage for, ah, smaller organization like that? Absolutely they i mean, you could get privacy in network security first, a company smaller than that. Ok, eso eso absolutely size is not an issue when it come comes to obtaining this type of coverage. Okay, um, i don’t suppose it’s possible tow the premiums could are gonna vary wildly depending on what the what the risk precise exposure is like. So you can’t really ask, no point really, and asking what? Like what a premium thing would look like. All right, i don’t think, you know, i mean, you hit the nail on the head. It varies dramatically between the amount of records that you have, the type of information that you’re collecting the way that you’re storing the information, all of those play factors. And when trying to quantify what the premiums would be a first, i relied bilich policy, i have no one had twice, twice in one interview. It’s don’t get that’s a record, thank you now should i should’ve vendor of of these kinds of policies be able to help you determine whether you’re saving info that you don’t need to save and, you know, going to the point that you just mentioned if you are with the info that you are safe, so are you savings stuff you don’t need to do and what you are saving. Are you saving it in the right way under security under the right security? Is that is that part of this or that something separate? No, no, it’s absolutely. We want to make sure that we understand the culture of the business, and we want to make sure that they take cyber security to the highest regard in two thousand seventeen. This is one of the crown jewels, the intangible information that a business has on their donors, their clients, etcetera s o typically, what we like to recommend is some type of vulnerability and penetration testing an ongoing test that will say where where you guys are from a security standpoint right now, what the culture looks like, which changed? Andi in-kind gives you a snapshot in time of where we currently stand. Oh, this sounds like a very sophisticated vulnerability and penetration testing. Correct? Excuse me. Who does the who runs a test like that? I mean that something has been sighted. Offers cybersecurity firms, firms. Okay, it doesn’t have to engage a firm. Exactly. Go on, attack your precisely your size or your social media ate your internal networks, your servers, that nature. Exactly. Okay. Um, all right, what else? What else should we be thinking about? Is we’re going out into the marketplace? E think it’s, even before you go out to the market place that’s really, what your listeners need to think about is the proactive steps that they could do in order to make themselves a better risk. So when they’re out in the marketplace, a carrier wants to give them more favorable terms. So doing things like creating an incident response plan that basically says who’s in charge of what information who’s going to be notifying who in the event of a data breach which information was classified? Where, who had access to what? All of those different types of questions you want to make sure that you have that document in hand? It’s kind of like a fire. Drill back when you’re in elementary school, you want to make sure when the fire happens, you knew exactly where to meet the teacher the you know, the corner of the road, it’s the same thing when a data breach happened, you want to know exactly who is going to be dealing with the vendors and who had access to the information. The time to figure this out is before breach not after you in a crisis, their precise that’s the third time in the interview here, here, if they knew this guy’s coming back. Oh, my god. Okay, yeah, you’re in crisis and yeah, all right, what else? Things. These are things that you mentioned underwriter. So these are things you can do that will bring your policy, your premium down, you’ll look more favorable to an insurer. You will be a more favorable real scared. The more that you put involving your in growing efforts on cybersecurity, the more better off that a business is going to be going forward. Okay, don’t see intangible property going away any time soon. More people more aunties or collecting mohr information in two thousand seventeen than ever before. There’s a trend? That’s not going away. So we advise our clients to be proactive rather than reactive when that’s what we work with them on what else besides the incident response plan, could we could we be doing proactively? Sure what you want to engage with attorney to again draw the instant response plan? You will make sure you doing your vulnerability and penetration test. That’s what? I want to deal with your cyber insurance broker to make sure that things on the applications or actually being done and you’re not making a material misrepresentation when filling out an application. So if you spat that’s bad, absolute if you’re claiming claiming you have a plan or you’ve done vulnerability testing or something, and then then there’s a claim, and it turns out that you haven’t. Yeah, yeah, that could be trouble. Precisely. We don’t want to line an application. We make sure that our clients are truthful on. We work with them to find the best carrier for their certain circumstances. Okay? Okay. Anything else we can do proactively before we’re in crisis mode or, you know, we just maybe it’s part of our strategic plan. We’re planning for this. What if? There’s one thing that i can recommend to the management of the not-for-profits that listen to this organ, this radio station, you want to make sure that your training, your employees, the employees error factor can be the difference between a data breach in a non data breach if they know to what to look for in terms of a phishing attack on that can lead to some type of rain somewhere. These rural types of methods now that entities are individuals are using to try and breach a company, so we want to make sure that we train our employees thoroughly. What to look out for what to click on what not to click on that’s one of the biggest things that i would recommend when i go out and i do my talks, his employee training because employees era unfortunately causes a tremendous amount of breaches. Ok? Yeah, we’ve been thinking about the bad actors coming in, but you can keep them from coming in precise don’t click on the attachment there sametz expecting or doesn’t look familiar to you. Yeah, and on the same point of the employee training, what happens when the employees sent an e mail to jane doe and i’m supposed to go to john doe. And now all of that census information or the credit cards from your donors are now out there in the public. Well, now you have a data breach. So again, making sure the right protocols are in place. So an email doesn’t get sent. Teo, you know john dahna supposed to go to change original employee training. I can’t stress it. Enough is one of the biggest thing. I get your passion here. I feel it it’s it’s palpable in the studio. What else can we be training on them? This because this is valuable for people who even may not be. Then there may not be in the insurance marketplace or they may not be out looking. But but there are things that they can do to help protect themselves. Or what else can we include in employee training around this? Sure. You wanna make sure the policies and procedures in place classifications, policies things of that nature. Pacification of the information. What information was segmented? Was all of your information on your server? Was the secretary ableto access the same information? Is the ceo yes, levels? Right. So levels of employee access exactly. People classification. Okay, okay. You find that in database precise programs are apt aps typically, you know, somebody’s a super user. Only certain people can see social security numbers. Percent have access to things like that. And you want to make sure again the ceo is able to see certain information that perhaps the you know, the rank and file doesn’t necessarily need to see. Okay, so if there’s information out there that is highly sensitive and employees don’t need to see it there’s no actual there’s. No reason to give them access to it. Right? You have a business need exactly exactly, exactly so, it’s, just again. Doing your due diligence ahead of time rather than post. Ok. Anything else? Try employee training. This is gold. This is charlie’s gold for listeners. So what else can what else could be, including employee training again, i think we hit on a bunch of the major. But this way, you know, if you like one of your guests, i could put you in touch with a good friend of mine who does some of the training. And they could go into more detail. But my really okay experiences qualifying. Quantifying what a breach could come or cost and not for profit. And how come the bottom line of their piano? Right. Okay. Okay. Uh, now we still have some more time left. Eso let’s. Okay, like two or three minutes left to share. What happened? I asked you that you want to talk about i think the trends of the way that the breach has been happening. We’re seeing now certain thie carriers are now changing the policies because of the way that the attacks are happening. You know, what’s happened things like social engineering, social deception, that’s now you can now get incorporated into the cyber liability policies. What is this social engineering, social deception with so have you have you have you heard about the types of emails that are coming to the c suites? Were the rank and file from the c suite saying, can you make a payment to x y z company? We’re looking to acquire somebody, right? We call it voluntary parting of funds and this is now the need for a holistic point of view from a risk management standpoint when looking at a cyber exposure because this is a part where the crime policy and the cyber policy can interline to try and provide coverage so it may not just be crime may not should be cyber, but if yu of the overlap of the two, that might be the best form. So we want to make sure that we truly again understand the client specific needs. Because what we talked about today was all generalizations way need to understand their actual risk profile that you mentioned a crime policy. Now, this is something we haven’t talked about. This is something unrelated, right? Precisely. Coverage against crimes against the organization. Different types of crimes. Could be. You know, for this, the voluntary parting of funds, if somebody’s willing to transfer monies if sounds so innocuous. Voluntary parting of funds that sounds like i write my niece a check. That’s a voluntary parting of fund. I gave her fifty dollars for a birthday. It was young that’s. Why? Fifty dollars is enough. Don’t you think, uncle, you wanted to give you you needs to fifty dollars. Typically when these air going on this is ah, bad actor that it tricked and employees to release the funds like your example? Okay. Precise. Alright, thank you very much. We’re going to be there. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being in the studio. Mark shine. You’ll find him at m a c h e i n and then his credentials c i c c l c s thank you very much again, mark. Thanks don’t appreciate the very timely discussion we had because just today ah, sixteen health facilities in britain were breached. People couldn’t reach their own data. Medical facilities couldn’t reach patient data. Patients had to be diverted. So that’s, just today’s headline we got maria simple coming up with beyond online to hell first. Pursuant, they’ve got a new paper it’s free. Of course. Lots of free content from pursuant breakthrough fund-raising achieved the impossible with a new way of thinking. What is brick troop? What does break through thinking? And can you say it? And how do you get it? To help? Ah, use it to help you overcome your organization’s challenges like speaking and moving lips and tongue in move in precise ways that will actually form syllables which turn into words and sentences. How do you do that? Breakthrough thinking of course. How do you set a breakthrough outcome? How do you make sure that that outcome is going to reach far enough and achieve something that seems out of reach to you? But is not all right identifying actionable strategies to create a culture of breakthrough that’s, what’s all in this paper? Learn breakthrough fund-raising you can learn it, go to pursuing dot com click resource is than content papers. I hope you have more success reading it. Then i did talking about it. We’ll be spelling. Do you need to raise more money? One engage millennials, perhaps host of fund-raising spelling bee it’s a night out at a local place that’s devoted to raising money for your non-profit check out their video at we b e spelling dot com, and they get in touch with ceo alex greer. Very nice guy, stupid, stupendous guy, he’s an amazing guy. I love this guy, alex career ceo on duh you’ll find out more he’ll fill you in now. Time for tony’s take two. Are you properly registered in each state where you solicit donations? I’m wagging my finger at you if you are a northern louisiana charity, perhaps and you’re sending email to southern arkansas needs a register in both states if you’re in eastern oregon non-profit and you’re hosting an event in western idaho, you need to register in both wherever you are. If you mail solicitation pieces to retirees in florida, you need to register down there. Don’t get caught with your shorts down, please. That reminds me i wrote that. But then this reminds me of ah, this company truck that i saw once said ganz or electric, let us check your shorts. I love that. Ah that’s another that reminds me of another one. Um, it was roofing fiedler roofing it’s only done right if there’s a fiedler on the roof. I love those. I don’t know if ganz or electric and fiedler roofing. They’re out there somewhere. Okay. Charity registration back to that. I can help you. If you want help, i can help you do it. The video explaining what you got to do and what this is all about is that tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s. Take two. You probably very much looking forward to maria semple because i’ve i don’t know. It’s it’s, philo rough today. So let’s zoho maria semple to do a lot of talking and ill will just have sam bring my mike down. She’s the prospect finder she’s, a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her latest book is magnify your business tips, tools and strategies for growing your business or your non-profit she’s our doi and of dirt cheap and free she’s at the prospect finder dot com and at maria simple. Welcome back, maria. Thanks for having me, it’s. Great to be here. And you’re in the studio today. Absolutely. That’s that’s, always special in the studio share is it’s not a great day to be in the studio with me, even though the first part was pre recorded. I don’t know how you can help me change the trajectory. There you go of my performance. Yeah, don’t don’t take your mic down because then it’s no fun. Okay, well, that’s ah, today that’s a debatable question. Typically, i would agree with you. All right, so we’re talking about going on beyond online and this is actually a topic that i think brought you and i together in early days, back when i used to write blawg posts actually write words i wrote something. On the value of going not only is researching online, but the value of actually talking to your potential donors, and i’m pretty sure you commented on it. Yeah, probably, yeah, there was one of the only things yes together. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so many times when you think about prospect research and even on the shows that we’ve had, we’ve really focused a lot on the online stuff, you know, the technology and, you know, how can we get information? But, you know, we we haven’t spent a lot of time talking about, well, what are some of those offline strategies, those people, two people strategies that you can use to elicit cem, great information. And, you know, sometimes when i’m sitting there typing up profiles on individuals, there are things that i just, i guess, out of curiosity really want to know about that person, you know, i want to know more about what makes them tick and, you know, the strength of their marriage, strange from their kids, like those kind of questions, maybe no, but we have to get along with her parents just really what, what, what their interests are what are they? Really doing in the non-profits more conventional. Yeah, yeah. How are they spending? You know, even how, but but maybe even how are they spending there? Ah, they’re free time. Like how do they spend it? Are they volunteering? Are they? You know, vacationing? Are they advocating? You know, what are they doing so very often? I wish i could, you know, call up that person that i’m researching and say, hey, i got a couple of holes missing here in this profile and a love to ask you a few questions, and i have thought and going back to that blood posted i wrote years ago, you know, talking to the person and there’s other people who could talk to do we’re going to we’re going to talk about that, but talking to the person i’ve always thought is just a great source of information just ask open ended questions, right? And you find out about not only about their interests within the organization, but they’re family circumstances where they like to vacation, you know? I mean, who they who their friends are that might be affiliated with the organization that they might be willing to bring in and you know, you just you find out so much if you would just, uh yeah, talk to people. Absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, if if you know, if you’re doing the prospect research for the organization, i’m going to give you some some questions to think about. But also, you might think about ceding your your your development staff, your executive director and you’re bored with some of these questions that they might just curious, you know, in their conversations with people they might be ableto ask so that you can fill in maybe some some holes that you might have on the donor profile that you might be, you know, compiling on this person or just, you know, at some point filling in night now you and i have talked about boards being valuable for prospect research and occasionally or you think you advocate even regularly making part of boardmember or period board meetings or periodically list of prospects? Yes, a swell as institutional funders, funders and people thes air these these are the people in the organizations that are on our screen right now. Yeah. How can you help us with any of these? Right? Right. So it could be it could be through that process that you could elicit the information another way you could potentially do this is, you know, tony, you’ve, you’ve probably heard this phrase where if you want to get money, ask people for their opinion, has them for their opinion and they’ll give you money. So if you can figure out a way, tio, engage people either through a formal feasibility study or bring together some sort of small focus groups where you’re really getting people engaged and asking them questions and making sure that they understand there’s, there’s, there’s nothing behind this, we’re not you’re not being brought in the room to to solicit you in any way. We just really want your opinion, and i think that people start to feel more engaged and and committed to an organization once they understand that. Oh, you know that they want to know what i think about this organization and how to move it forward into the future. So, you know, i you know, kind of came up with my top ten questions that i thought i would love to ask, okay? Okay, we’ll get to those, um we’re going to get there. Um, so we mentioned the board as a good source. Focusedbuyer oops, sorry, focus group staff, you’re you’re you’re might be development staff, but not necessarily could be staff that’s interacting with people in a different in a different way besides fund-raising that’s, right? That’s, right? So maybe it is staff that’s involved with really just ah, organizing your volunteers so you might have a volunteer engagement person on staff that really just that focuses on your special events? Ah, you’re runs your walks, things like that s so they could be sort of armed with this set of questions as well, so they could just happy just be kind of on their radar and be always looking to collect this type of data because the type of data that we’re about to talk about a lot of times, you just can’t even find it on you. Yeah, and ah, and i think it goes to really good development work to be able to source that data and fill in some of those holes and missing piece puzzle pieces, so dismayed now this raises the question of social media, so when you’re researching prospects, do you go to their social media accounts to see what what might be public like if a lot of their facebook posts are public now, some people keep them private, but or only to their friends. But do you do you look at social media? Tio try to fill in hold while i tell you what i actually do? Because one of the things that i do, of course, is i google somebody’s name. So when i do that and on page one of google search results very often will be their social media accounts, they’re linked in their facebook instagram, right? So even even you think okay, well, it’s an instagram account it’s all photos. What am i going to gain from that? But you can really gain a lot of information avectra their second home? Yeah, their boat, their plane? Yeah, i mean, our just, you know, maybe maybe there really into birding, for example. So they’ve got, you know, a lot of pictures around that and you think ok, well, gee were an environmental organization. We didn’t realise they had this particular interest within our scope. Eso you, khun really? Maybe even learn a lot, you know? They say a picture’s worth a thousand words, right before you just filled with the old the old saying, zoho yes, yes, i’ve heard that you have heard that, you know, so you know for sure on dh, then then let’s not forget some of the some of these platforms that also allow for video, so my goodness, when they then not only have photos up there, but then they’re involving video as well. So if it’s if it’s public right? Um and, you know, that’s not somehow password protected or privacy protected, then it’s in the public domain, you’re not going in friending all these prospect? No, no, no, no, to try to sneak in, no, no, and become their friends absolutely know you’re going? No, no, absolutely not. But i will say one thing about the linked in if you’re doing the research there. Ah, there is a way to set your your privacy settings in such a way that you will like if i’m researching you, tony, or if i’m just looking at your linked in profile, i go in as anonymous an anonymous user, so you won’t know that i was looking at your profile really, however, give up the ability to see who’s been looking at mine. Oh, well, i wouldn’t care about that. How do we set that? So you go into the privacy settings, and, um, and one of the options is, you know how you want to appear to others. When you are looking at their profiles, they’re three settings there’s one that’s, fully transparent. So your your your picture will be there. Your name will be there, and your headline will be there. Right? That’s the setting that allows you to also then see who’s been looking at your profile. If you choose that setting, then there’s two private settings. One is semi private, so i could come across as just somebody who’s in the management consulting industry in the greater new york city area. Or i could be anonymous. Okay, so those air, the two private and semi private said they’re either naked, topless for that’s. Fully clue, fully clothed. Okay, um, all right. And that’s. Very interesting. I mean, i would i could care less. Who looks looks at mine. I get those e mails. I know it is an option. I can turn off, but i just haven’t. But, you know, whatever. Twelve fourteen people looked at your your your profile this because i don’t care and okay, but so now so if i turn around but you could turn it on and off you can’t you don’t want to you want to be if you want to be naked sometimes and fully exposed could do that if you want to put your clothes on top and bottom tops and bottoms like jammies like foot season, everything right on the twenty years and everything, you know and hoody you could do that to write. Okay, you go back for all right? This is all online. And what i promised was we’re going to go beyond online in real life. But this is all valuable. So we do whatever the hell i want the okay, um, he’s going rogue it’s my show now, it’s not rogue. It sze mainstream sametz dream it’s twenty martignetti non-profit radio. All right, now you have questions that are good for in real life. Real life questions. So let’s, talk about some of those for aa for a couple minutes before we take a break. So what kind of things should we be putting out into? Our among? Our people, because it is not just for us to be asking, but all the people that we just think about a few minutes ago, and also these would work really well in, like i said, a focus group or or a feasibility study type of the situation. So question number one, what do you feel are the most pressing challenges for our community? And i often can’t find that type of information, right? So you’re now you’re getting into the mind of that individual and you’re getting them to talk about what are the challenges that you see, not only with regard to the service types of services that we provide, but in our community? What are the challenges that you see? And then, you know, hopefully from their conversation will will happen around, you know, how does does this particular non-profit even address any of those challenges? And it may not be appropriate that in fact, that’s your next suggestion? What role do you see? Non-profits playing resolving the issues, right? That that are pressing for you, actually, that you feel, you know, i like this, you know? What do you feel? Because you’re asking the person what’s their opinion where their feelings about write something good, open ended questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You definitely want to make sure that they are open ended and not just yes or no questions, right? Because what you’re looking to do here is really just listen, um, and and i think that, you know, this is something that i think especially those of us in the northeast. We’re so used to talk, talk, talk, talk that we have that we have trouble just listening. I don’t know you may have that trouble. I don’t feel i have that trouble. Well, you know, you’re already transitioning to the south so well, slowly but that’s like degree of sarcasm. Okay. So, you know, how do you see us fitting into it? Yeah. How do you see are not fitting into this into addressing this particular in need. You know what? How can we help address this need in our community, in the community? Is it appropriate for us to be addressing this need within our community? All right. Do you feel like this should be? It should be a priority for us. Yeah, it is. Or it isn’t. And some of these i think are things that i mean? I hope that fundraisers, frontline fundraisers have in mind, and they are asking people, you know, a taste. These last couple that we talked about, you know, what are we doing right? How do we, how do you think we fit in? How do you feel about the work that we do have to fit into the community? You know, what else should we be hitting on that we’re not things like that, all right, we got to go take our car break. When we come back, we got live, listen, love, et cetera, et cetera, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that or neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m chuck longfield of blackbaud. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have got live listeners all over the country, it’s amazing, but we’re booming today from new bern, north carolina. Bradenton, florida, and tampa, florida. Basically, we’ve got all this is that this is a first for non-profit radio for sure, we’ve got all five boroughs of the city checked in bayside and rochdale in queens, bronx. Cancel your neighborhood, brooklyn can’t see your neighborhood. Manhattan and staten island got all five boroughs checked in live listener love throughout the city of new york throughout the five boroughs. Also blair’s town new jersey used to go to boy scout camp in blair’s town no, be bosco stood for north bergen boy scouts no be bosco bladders in blair’s town and that’s, where they filmed friday the thirteenth one of kevin bacon’s early movies flight friday, the thirteenth films at that boy scout camp in blast down new jersey live listener love to you blessed town also woodbridge new jerseys with us i’m nowhere altum pandu jersey is where my mother and father are they did not check in they’re checking out there so i don’t know but they’re not checked in we got all way all the way west coast. Can’t washington live? Listen, love out to the upper northwest? Um, i think that’s, everybody so far in the us of a how about germany, multiple cities in germany? Guten tag, spain. I can’t see your city, i’m sorry, but spain, buenos di days. I’ve got a newcomer. Ah, the area of the stars of by john the town is tub breeze and that’s, iran welcome, iran live with their love to you in iran, give us a high five from iran. On the heels of the live listen, love, of course, comes the podcast pleasantries, maria samples getting close to her, mike thinking that’s her time to talk again. But it’s? Not quite because we’ve got to do the podcast pleasantries, she’s trying to cut you off podcast listeners. She doesn’t want me to do it, but her restraints are are ill are feeble against my will to do podcast pleasantries to the over twenty, twelve thousand listeners, whenever you are whatever device i am so glad you’re with us pleasantries to you and the affiliate affections to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. So glad that you are with us as well affections to you on those analog devices glad you’re with us. Ok, marie simple. Now it’s back your turn. You can sit up straight again. Maria sample. You’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and she’s at maria simple. Um, yeah. So more questions we got. We got some more questions that we’d like to be asking. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So these next two questions are very inter related, and they may be difficult for you to ask directly to someone it might work. Better in mohr of aa group situation, and i think it would work really well if you had, i’m going to say, ah, third party may be a consultant or other volunteers, perhaps asking this question, so the questions are, what are we doing right? And what can we improve? Because i think you’re going to learn a lot about how your organization is serving the community. And maybe there is some gaps that that that these potential donors feel thatyou’re not filling but should be filling eso it sounds particularly student to a focus group, right? Or a feasibility study, a consultant asking feasibility study questions of individuals or couples one on one yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And this next question really has to do more with your communications and how you’re communicating with people and, you know, you know, are we transparent and communicating effectively regarding our programs and achievements? S o you know, i think that fund-raising and communications marketing, pr, whatever you want to call it are they cannot live in silos, they absolutely are interrelated when one one part of that is not going well, it’s going to impact thie other side and vice versa. So i think it is important to have an understanding of, you know, are you over communicating under communicating, you know, sometimes donors feel like, you know, g the only time we ever hear from this organization is when they’re asking for money that’s always about right, right? So, you know, are you adequately communicate? And also, how would you like to be communicated with right? Do you prefer email, paper, mail, phone twitter, you know, how would you like us to be talking to you, right, exactly what channel? So yeah and thiss next question i really like because now we’re going to start to understand, will these people be willing to make a major number seven minutes if you like this one? Where was this number seven? Well, no, i mean, because now we’re getting into more of a major gift flow of questions arc to the right, right? We’re approaching danamon right there, and then we’re going on that we’re goingto leave xena, ok, exactly. Bonem so have you ever made a multi year commitment to a non profit organization? And would you ever consider doing so? So not necessarily to your non-profit to a nonprofit organization ok, you need to go through the next couple quickly. Okay, great. We have a few minutes left and we got to talk about conferences. Okay. Great. Read them off. All right. So how many non-profits do you typically support in a given year? Do you give more to an organization when you are involved in its leadership? Would you like to be a boardmember? Etcetera? Volunteermatch ok. And who else should we be talking to? Excellent. Right? Because you you who have your in your network and you bring to us, right? Who in your circle of influence should we be talking? Teo? All right. Excellent. In real life, go there. Don’t ignore the in real life. It’s it’s it’s part of you being a human being. It’s not all digital. Okay, let’s, go to conferences. If you want to meet in real life, we have a nap. Unconference association of professional researchers in advancement, right? Where’s that that’s, right? So they’re big annual conference it’s their thirtieth actually is happening in anaheim, california. This year on july twenty sixth through the twenty nine, you’re going to be there? I am not. No, i’m not. I’m not going to. Be attending it this year, but i do want to make sure that everybody is, you know, he’s aware that it’s there in case they want to get some extra education and this information as well as a lot of this other stuff i’m going to bring up now is all available on apple. His website, which is a p r a home dot org’s. So that’s apra home dot order s so that’s, the big, the big international conference. A bunch of statewide stuff just passed in in april, but a couple of other upcoming things that i did want to bring to your attention. So if you are members of the florida chapter of apra, they’ve gotta state conference coming up june eighth through the ninth, we’ve got anapa overdrive one day conference coming up in seattle, washington may twenty fifth, there’s a couple of webinars coming up a free one on june fifteenth. Ah, getting the most out of wealth screening and they’ve got one that they’re running in conjunction with a f p called you khun do it research at your finger tips and that’s going to be on august twenty third i don’t know about all these is available on apple home dot org’s. Yes, yes, it iss that’s. That’s exactly where i got it from. Okay, very good. We gotta leave it there. She’s a prospect. Find her again at maria simple and at the prospect finder. Dotcom. Thank you, sir, for being in the studio. I was so glad to be here too. Two force cracked like a fourteen year old is unbelievable. Next week, health care funding options and jean takagi is back. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez. And this cool music is by scott stein you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hopefully i’ll be more articulate, go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phone. Amador is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff sort of dane toe add an email. Address their card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

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Schnoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I come down with high potro pia, if i saw that you missed today’s show idealware new release, karen graham, executive director, would idealware announces their new publication to help you use technology smarter. She has a discount for non-profit radio listeners, you need to know this organization and it’s valuable work and this new resource antonio, take two sexual harassment in non-profits we’re sponsored by pursuing two full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, wee bey e spelling dot com i am so pleased to have karen graham back on the show and in the studio this time she’s a sort after speaker, trainer, writer and consultant with expertise in technology, leadership and innovation non-profit software and digital strategy. As idealware sze, executive director, she leads a team of researchers, presenters and writers who create technology information resource is to help non-profit leaders put their vision into action thereon idealware dot or ge and she’s at karin t gram. Welcome guarantee, graham. Thanks, tony. That’s. A pleasure to have you in the studio this time. What’s the tea for the tea and karen tigre off. Theresa theresa now, karen teresa? Yes, we must. Yes. Ok. Last time you were on the show was from sixteen and t c the non-profit technology conference last year. And you were talking about virtual order eggs idealware is a virtual organization. And you were talking about how to manage that tell us about idealware i really think this is something that i mean we highlighted you made you idealware listener of the week a month, a couple months ago or so. And i really do that for organizations it’s, usually for people. But idealware is outstanding. Tell us i need to know more about how extending it is. Thanks. I think it’s outstanding tio it’s a great place to work and that really a privilege to lead idealware but so here’s, what we do, we are a small nonprofit organization, and we also exist to serve small non-profits actually non-profits of all sides. But i think that the smaller ones that don’t have a lot of internal resource is about technology that don’t have people on their staff can stand to benefit the most from what we dio and are we talking about something like eighty five or ninety percent of non-profits exactly, i mean, this this show is a big non-profit agent for the other ninety five percent when we know that upper five percent has these professionals that you’re talking about, but i don’t know, maybe the other may be a small percentage of the other ninety five does does also, but not very money, right? Well, and we we know, i think your listeners probably understand that technology is really important for non-profits heard rumors to that effect on the show you so hopefully i don’t have to persuade people of that, but but we also know that a lot of non-profits, especially the smaller ones, really struggle to tap into the power of technology and it’s because they’re lacking the knowledge and the skills, and the resource is to really take advantage of it, and so idealware tries to be part of the solution to that, and so the core of what we do is impartial research on technology for the nonprofit sector and i’m gonna stop you at the impartial research partner. Do you object to me saying that you’re the consumer reports of non-profit technology? Some of my colleagues might object to that a little bit, but i think that’s a great shorthand way of describing what i do bilich dahna certainly all the feature you don’t take advertising companies don’t donate their software to you. I don’t think for evaluation do they just do not donate it all right? Ah, so your objective in that respect on dure i think your reviews are my voice just cracked reviews are just as comprehensive, and we’re going to talk about that exciting. We’re gonna talk about that in the announcement. That’s coming up, but yeah, i mean, you’re impartial objective. I’ve been citing idealware reports for years before we met before, i really was familiar with what idealware was just years ago on the show, because someone mentioned one of your reports. That was it was a comparison i think of of donorsearch hannes mint software or it might have been fund-raising software, but but i went through and i read the report and i saw the chart with all the bullets of different features, and it talked about features that you might need based on the size of your organisation and it just since then it struck me as very similar to consumer and just as valuable as consumer reports. People tell me all the time that they have that kind of experience where they’ve come across one of our consumers guides and you’re talking about the consumer’s guide to low cost donorsearch zsystems which is now and it’s, maybe fourth or fifth edition. I am that’s why i’m talking, you have to tell me what i’m talking about, and i rarely know. We just released the twenty seventeen edition in partnership with an ten a few weeks back, you know? Why aren’t you called the non-profit technology network? Well, it’s where they stole it, you should be the non-profit technology network. I don’t think that you know amy amy’s on the show every month, she’s, our social media contributor. Yeah, and there should be a social technology non-profit technology network, not them. Well, they’re they’re the network because their membership organization and idealware is not some of the misconceptions that people have about us, is we’re? We’re not a membership organization. And we also don’t do one on one consulting with non-profits i guess our bottle is more like a publisher in that we’re trying teo create some economies of scale in doing research and creating publications and resource asses that can benefit lots and lots of people, and so much of your your content is free. Yes, we’re not what we’re about to announce. Although we got a discount for this into the cracked voice, we’ve got discount for non-profit radio listeners coming up teasing, but but so much of your content like that survey. But you said i was talking about for five years and consumer guide that was free. I mean, i just went on your website, someone had referred me to it, and we talked about it on the show, right? So so much of your content is free and on our website, people also find workbooks that guide them through different kinds of decision making processes. Right now, we’re working on a new work book, which will come out in another month or two about developing security and bring your own device policies so it’s not just software that idealware covers it’s also policies and best practices and so that’s maybe the difference between idealware and consumer reports okay, that we’re not just doing reviews, but we’re also trying to help people get the most out of the technology that they have with policies and administrative practices things right? So you’re more you’re more robust than your consumer reports, plus that’s a policy in his administration best practices more than all right, all right. Let’s ah, that’s how we want to do this let’s go out for our break a little early when we come back we’ve got the big announcement the major announcement major announcement of the new uh, the new guide on dh then we’re gonna talk through it stay with us you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s t i g e n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website. Philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent guaranty graham, karen, theresa graham you have a major announcement major a love letter could say major award was not a major war, but you have a major announcement. What is the publication that is brand new that idealware has it’s the field guide to software for non-profits excellent twenty seventeen version yes isn’t even is even available now. It is now available on amazon, amazon, and i’m excited to say that this year, for the first time, it will be available as a kindle ebook as well as a paper version. Congratulations technology organisation uses smart use of technology all right, so we wanted to do that for a while. So so it is the field guide to software for non-profits, and we have a discount graciously provided by idealware if if you go for non-profit radio listeners, if you go to idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio couldn’t be simpler. That’s a idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio you will get the discount. The instructions are right there, and we’re going to say that multiple times throughout the show. Congratulations on the twenty seventeen field guide. Now, this is an updated version of previous work-life s we have published this book before, but it’s been a few years, and so this year we just went through every single word of it, and we checked all the research and updated a lot of thing things. And so this is significantly different than the previous version because, as you know, technology that changes so fast that a book from twenty fourteen is hardly even relevant anymore. So, almost even last year, it’s. Too early last year. Now the field guide. This reminds me of something i had in boy scouts and boy scouts. I had a field guide where it taught how to build a fire. Proper use of an axe. Ah, so it reminded me of my boy scout field guide years is there’s a little thinner? My boy scouts. Well, my boyfriend’s got field guy was more compact page size wise, but it was a it was a fatter thing. Well, and it’s it’s not unlike that kind of field guide, i think. And in two ways one, your maximum ship in there. I don’t know how to build a city teepee. Fire versus log cabin. Fire, you have that we don’t have, you don’t have that. But but we’ve got all the basics of forty some different categories of software in here, but i think the way it’s like that kind of field guide is that it’s it’s, fairly lightweight it’s ah, how many pages is this? About a hundred ninety pages? And so it’s not going to go in depth on any particular subject, just like, you know, with building a fire, you’re not goingto read about all about the history building fires and, you know, three hundred different ways to build fires in different conditions similar to that this is going to spend maybe two or three pages on each category of software, but it will give you everything you need to know on the fly. And and then, of course, if you want to dig deeper into a specific topic, there are lots of other resource is like our consumer guides that will help you do that. Okay, all right, fair enough, it’s also, i think, like like a traditional boy scout field guide or other kinds of field guides in that it’s useful for people who have a lot of experience. But also for beginners. Okay, that is important, right? So you don’t have to be ah, a tech geek, teo, to benefit from field guide, right? And likewise, in my scout longfield gotta remember, boy scouts was founded by i mean, it did have a history, but baden powell latto buy-in powers, the founder of boy scouts. I forget the year i actually even i figure this century, but, ah, lord powell. Nonetheless, um you are probably often asked what is the best software for human resource is or fund-raising management or accounting? And that that doesn’t that doesn’t sit so well. It’s not that’s not a valuable question to ask, is it? Have we talked about this before? I think we either have or i’m just very insightful, so let’s just assume the ladder i’m from the midwest, and so when people ask me questions that i think are stupid, i usually don’t say so outright, okay? I didn’t say stupid i tried to be very nice about it, but i said i’m not the most valuable or helpful question, but honestly, when people ask me what’s the best fund-raising software example inside, i’m thinking that is the wrong question, but the right question is, what is the best fund-raising software for me or for my organization? And that answer will be different for every organization s o that that’s a really key component of idealware approach is that we don’t say which software is the best, but rather we help people make that decision for themselves by understanding a lot of detail about their own requirements. What is possible to do with software and then what they’re different options are and what the strengths and weaknesses of different systems might be. And you have a whole section in the book devoted to selection, selection and implementation, and i’m going to take a little romp through the the table of contents cause i want people to see we’re going to do this. I’m going to just a couple times through the show, but i just wanted people to get an idea of the breath of what’s in this what’s in the field guide me so there’s there’s, a major section on back office and productivity and within that there’s accounting and credit card zsystems document management, email calendar, fire file, back-up recovery firewalls, hr office management, then there’s, a major section on analytics analyzing your organization’s data. Ah analyzing paper data, custom reporting tools, dashboards, maps and geographical information measuring social media, online listening program evaluation. All right, so we’re going to stop there for now, but that’s just a couple of the major sections. I mean, other section collaboration, constituent management. So i just said, we’re gonna stop there and i kept going, but so i get, you know, i’m excited by this because the the number of topics you cover and the depth and then there’s a section on helping you helping choose and in and within each of the conversations, the topics you’re talking about, if you’re small organisation with under a thousand records or a certain budget, you know, this might make more sense than if you’re a larger organizations with a thousand twenty five thousand records, etcetera or larger, you know you’re breaking it down so there’s great value here i want people to understand that, alright discount idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio okay, and don’t forget the case studies too. I think that’s an important part of this book we start right towards the beginning with three case studies and there’s a fourth one at the end in the implementation section and those what we found is that those were able to put it all together. Those hypothetical yes, hypothetical, but realistic. Yes, syria is very important. Footnote. I was trained in law school. Always read the footnotes hypothetical but realistic. I mean, put together by you by obviously, by the team that wrote this and idealware yeah, right, but they’re all of the scenarios and there are based on riel organization, but we’ve used a little bit of poetic license, i suppose. Okay, you’re out about it. I mean, not you. Well, you’d buried in footnote, but i mean it. Sze imprint, right? Its imprint. You’re right. They are hypothetical case studies, but i think that they help people. Teo, imagine themselves in that situation and think about all the different kinds of software and kinds of decisions about technology that they need to make. All right, all right. That’s going to aa detail now that we know that there is no best package in each of these areas, it depends on your organization. All right. Um, you’ve got a section on what every organization needs. I mean, there seems to be basic. Not what package or what system or whether online. Oh, our cloud based or installed is better. No, not that. But basic areas of function that it seems like every non-profit should be using technology in. Right? All right. So let’s, let’s, let’s, cover a couple. Those like you start with a back office. Productivity. What are some that just every organization ought to be using. Well, just about every organization needs. Some way to manage their files to do file back-up things like that. They also need an e mail system for internal office emails, so and calendars ofthis software for word processing, spreadsheets, things like that. So that’s that’s the type of thing that falls under this category and now, if you’re gonna have email, you’re obviously online, so you’re going to need virus protection, right? And probably should be looking at firewalls to okay, okay, um, and the reason we put that first is because if that stuff isn’t an order, it’s not really worth while to be paying attention to some of the communications and outreach tools it’s it’s like trying to paint your walls when your basement is flooded? Um, you know, there’s just kind of a hierarchy of needs that non-profit has have when it comes to technology, and so you need to take care of the back office and make sure that that stuff is is just working well, you have a solid internet connection, that sort of thing first as a foundation for everything else, let’s not go too far on the home improvement metaphors, because i’m a cz good at that, as i am at sports, which i confused the other day the field goal i thought that was baseball, so i thought that was the three pointer so let’s not go too far get agreed. I’ve tried to repair toilets, i had to replace the handle and i end up cracking the tank. I didn’t have to take it off, but when i put it back on, i tightened it too hard and the islamic cracked unaided old toilet for the for the five, ninety nine handle i was trying to replace aunt, of course a plumber to go with it, so let’s end the home improvement and metaphors and don’t start on sports. Alright, alright, but those constraints okay, so, you know, a lot of times i get the question how do we get to the next level? And some of these basic tools are that? I mean, if you’re if you if you don’t have a good file management system, if you’re working with more than one person, if your organization is more than one person, you need to be file sharing files and they’d be backing them up. So, you know, how do you get to the next level? You need to have this. I don’t want you the word foundation these basics because the foundation is the bottom of the house, so but you need to have these basics before you can get to the next level. Okay, let’s, go a little further on some basics like you talk about the analytics measuring how effective the organization is, right and that that is often the next place that organizations go because using data well is something that can have a huge impact on an organization’s ability to deliver on their mission. Once you’ve got those those fundamentals taken care of, then they’re often moving, too. Um, you know, what kind of tools do we need in place to collect data to manage data and then to report on it and use it to tell our story, but also to make decisions about the organization from day to day about, like, how do we allocate resources? How do we do future planning dahna can help with all of that, and so we cover a number of analytics tools and dahna presentation tools in here, ok, can help with that let’s move to the all important area of fund-raising donor relationship management, things like that, what is most likely needed in place for that stuff and that’s actually, the area that i probably know most about when i was a consultant, i did a lot of software selection process passes with organizations that we’re looking at donorsearch sustainers or grants management systems are or, you know, whatever the appropriate system was for their type of organization. And, you know, these days, almost no one can manage their constituent dahna and excel anymore and it’s becoming more and more risky, i think, to use a customized system, especially as a smaller organization, because the cost of that the cost of ownership for that and the limitations of it can often be really unattractive compared to cloud based systems. And so that you will find in a lot of idealware is work, including in this book, that we tend to nudge these smaller organizations toward software’s, the service and cloudgood based solutions you do especially for data management. Yeah. Okay. Why’s, that why’s our preference for those you think for the smaller or eggs. Well, it’s, there are much more robust features for security. For one thing, i mean that’s, not something. That a lot of people think about straight off, but i do because i want everybody’s data to be secure and well backed up, and so when you’re using a cloud based system, the the level of back-up insecurity is usually much more than any non-profit could afford on its own if they were doing that in house. And so i mean, really, if you are hit by hurricane and you like your office floods, i don’t know you lose electricity, whatever, you can’t access anything there, then if you have a cloud based system, you can go to another location and log in and immediately you have access to everything again. So that’s just one example. Not that people are facing hurricanes very often. Well, the midwest girl tornadoes, it can happen. It could just be a power outage in your local areas are in your office, but your home is okay. Or you can get to somewhere else. Someone else’s home and operate from there. Or you can use your battery and still work. Or maybe your computer just crashes and then you lose a bunch of stuff. If it’s not well backed up, you know. So it was just nice to have all that taking care of it’s also, i think at the then he just for a small organization, teo, just try to take advantage of tools that have been developed based on the most common needs of non-profits like yours and people have a tendency to think that they’re they’re really special, and they are they’re all special, but but sometimes there needs as non-profits or not as unique as we believe they are, and ultimately it can be more effective to just adjust your business processes and your expectations a little bit in order to take advantage of inexpensive, easy to use tools that exist that probably addressed ninety percent of your needs and the rest, you have to question whether those air true needs or if they’re just preferences, ok, you are right, and whether people processes might be able to just adapt right a bit. Now i know that there’s ah, a lot of hesitation to adapt people to the technology. The feeling is that the technology should be assisting us in the way we work. But, you know, if you have to compromise and ten percent of what you what the way you worked to get ninety percent of what you need. It seems like that would be a fair. There’ll be a fair trade off. Yeah, and i hold those two things intention all the time, you know, like, while i’m saying, just compromise and sort of go with with what everybody else is doing at the same time out of the other side of my mouth, i’m saying, like, no, you need to be innovative and on don’t just accept what everybody else is doing, do something different. So it’s, i don’t know some somewhere in between those two extremes is probably the right way. Okay, okay, um, and we’ve had we’ve had guests on actually from talking about subjects like what if your what if technology isn’t your problem? That was a good panel. I think that was from think that was from twenty fifteen. You know, where you’re blaming technology, but really it’s people, attitudes and culture that are your issue. And it was a bunch of software consultants, some of them two of them were our consultants for sales force. You know, help organizations implement sales force in their in their offices, and they were suggesting that, you know, technology can’t solve problems that are people based, i would say amen to that some of their speaking yes, yeah, that that’s part of the reason that in this book, we include the section about defining your needs and making comparisons and managing an implementation process, because there are so many people issues that can easily be overlooked there. And so here’s one example, i talked with an organization that had gotten new software maybe a year ago, and they were the executive director was so frustrated because nobody was using this new software, and i started to ask him questions about their process and, you know, like, who was involved in selecting the software who had input into this? And she said, well, it was it was a boardmember who just sort of did this as a project for us, and so they researched options, and they recommended a package, and then we just went with that, and so the staff who were the end users of the tool had no input into the process at all, and they felt that it was being imposed on them on dh, so of course they’re going to kind. Of dig in their heels and and not go along with that and because, first of all, they didn’t feel included, and secondly, it didn’t meet their needs the and they hadn’t had a chance to express those needs. And so there are a lot of things that you because they weren’t included, right? Yeah, there are a lot of things that you could do early on in a process like that that paved the way for user adoption down the road and that’s important because you could spend easily, like forty, fifty thousand dollars on a case management system, which is one of the categories that’s covered in the field guide just in the first year, and if people aren’t using it, that is a lot of money that’s being wasted and that’s a huge opportunity cost as well, because if you’re not using the software for what it’s intended to do, then you know, maybe you’re not serving people as well. Maybe you’re not getting good data about the impact of your work, and that inhibits your ability to raise money in the future. And, you know, there’s just like a lot of consequences to a bad software. Decision and a badly run implementation process if you want to find that that show that i was talking about the panel which deals with the issues that karen is just mentioning, i don’t know what we called it for sure, but i remember two of the guests that were on it, and i think one is an idealware adviser robert winer. Yes, right. He’s a good friend of ours. So you could go to tony martignetti dot com search. His last name, whiner w e i n e r and also tracy kronzak was on that panel. So k r o n t z a k. So if you searching through their names, you’ll find that that particular show um okay, let’s, let’s start to go into a little detail about your expertise, which is in the constituent relationship management and donor management system area, right of the of the book. Um, what’s ah, where should we? Where should we start when we’re talking about constituent relationship management? Well, probably idealware is most popular. Resource is air about donorsearch zsystems so that’s that’s maybe a good place to start because every non-profit organization, i think, has donors and so reserved about them to manage you won’t be an anarchist than all right, we’ll do it your way. Uh, is the donor management is a subset of considering management because they’re they’re wanting some of your donors and the others are vendors and employees and volunteers, right? All right, so you don’t know management let’s go there, let’s, go there. What do you want to know? Where, um i wanna take a break, and then we’ll compose our thoughts about dahna management systems and count and i will will continue very shortly. First, i need to talk about pursuant. They have their fund-raising camp coming up and this is a one day intensive on site. It will challenge the way you think about identifying major gift prospects and managing a portfolio and managing and managing a relationship pond leading up to your your solicitation you’re asked. I know you need to raise more money. I hear that all the time. And if you want to take your fund-raising to the next level, aside from software, obviously what we’re talking about all day today. But in addition to that, there are processes that you need and relationship management methods and that’s. What this boot camp will help you with and space is limited. They aren’t keeping it to a small group. It’s the fund-raising boot camp you go to pursuing dot com click resource is and then training we be spelling spelling bees for millennial fundraisers fund-raising it’s a night out to raise money for your organization this is not a night that is benefiting half a dozen organizations. These are custom made for you in your location and it’s not your seventh grade spelling bee with dance and stand up comedy and live music, et cetera. It’s all gets set up, it’ll get set up for you it’s your organization’s fund-raising night check out the video is that we be e spelling dot com and they get in touch with ceo alex career and you could find out more it’s all that we be e spelling now. Tony steak, too sexual harassment in the non-profit workplace i’m interested in what your experiences it’s, timely it’s in the news and i but i don’t see anybody talking about it with respect to non-profits, but pretty confident it’s there i blogged this not this exact topic in two thousand eleven, i blogged about sexism in the non-profit workplace not identical, i know that, but that’s the closest i’ve come to this topic before now, and this the stories were rampant. It was my most commented post that was back when i used to write block post now, of course, it’s all video, but it was the most commented post, so since it’s in the news, i’d like to bring it home to non-profits and i’m interested in aa hearing from victims hr professionals, attorneys richness is to something inappropriate. Anybody with an opinion about sexual harassment in the non-profit workplace let’s, talk about it. You can comment anonymously on the video i disabled the requirement for email address so you can do it anonymously, and the video is at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two. Karen graham is the executive director of idealware idealware dot or ge she’s at karin t gram and i need to take my another romp through the contents of the field guide on section five collaboration board support software elearning file sharing internets and portals learning management systems online chat section six constituent management, which we’re about to talk about. Well, i was going to talk about it broadly, but karen anarchist so would do it her way. But there is a section on constituent relationship management, advocacy oriented cr, ems all in one case management donorsearch panitch mint systems volunteermatch judgment zsystems um fund-raising and events a major, major what’s their crowd funding a peer-to-peer fund-raising systems event, an auction management event registration foundation grants research, online auctions, online donations amazing. I’m just reading through the table of contents you’ve got to get this thing is the field guide two non-profit to software for non-profits and of course, your discount is at idealware dot or ge slash non-profit radio get the get the get the darn thing. Get the discount. You gotta have this thing. It’s an amazon forgot. Take him and that’s it. That doesn’t say anything, but you gotta have this lots of things on amazon that are worthless, but this is not among them. All right, thank you for indulging my romp through the contents, etcetera. Okay, so if we’re gonna talk about dahna management way, dont have to dive into that, you know, we’re not going back now. Now we’re not flip flopping. No use committed me. All right. Um, we need to use the book says for most of the ability to handle both gifts and pledges, including recurring gift that sounds pretty basic. We need to handle these things, right? Right, ok, where do we go? How do we decide or what should we be thinking about in determining what’s, our what’s, the best dahna management system for us? Well, some of the things that i think differentiate different fund-raising programs are how much they emphasize pledges and recurring gifts, although more and more, almost every non-profit is doing that these days. There also are some differences in these systems in terms of how they handle relationships, and i don’t know if that’s actually i don’t i don’t really see that highlighted here, but that’s something that i have personally found varies a little bit from one system to the next. So just to get a little more more specific on that let’s say that my husband and i are both involved in an organization we give jointly as a household, but i’m on the board of directors and he is not he volunteers for another particular activity, but i don’t, you know, so we each have our own individual relationship in preference is related to this organization. So it’s a rocky marriage, it’s not table, is not stable marriage it’s a great marriage, you know, but but partly because we sometimes do our own thing. And so organizations need constituent relationship management system that can honor people as individuals, but that can also treat them in some cases as a household. So that’s that’s a feature that i think it’s important to look at and see if that seems user friendly to you, you and and sort of meets your needs there. Another thing that might be a priority for some organizations and not for others is whether the system is is available not just available, but really functional on a mobile device so that’s essential. I mean, don’t we know, like something like seventy five or eighty five percent of emails or something are opened on mobile devices now and websites needs? I mean, if your website is not mobile response of your donation pages, not mobile responsive. I think you’re way behind the curve that’s his standard at this point, but i know that’s just elearning but let’s say, you know, i’m a development. Director, do i want to be able to look up a donor right before i’m going to meet with them while i’m on the train and just read a little bit about their history or after my meeting? Do i want to be able to log some notes and created follow-up task about that donor on my phone? Those are things that some systems support really well, and others really don’t, and you’re probably not going to find great support on a mobile device for complex reporting analytics assembling a mail merge, you know, that sort of thing is what you would rip out your desk, right? But but some of those things related to meetings and interactions with donors are some systems support that really well on mobile devices, and and others haven’t really made that a priority yet, i would say they’re probably all moving more in that direction. Okay, okay, um, credit cards, we gotta talk about credit card processing and often that is handled by a third party. So for example, i actually try not to name specific technology vendors very much when i when i talked like this because i don’t want to give the impression that idealware favors one over any of the others. But i will say the book has reviews, it does it doesn’t kayman number saying and think, yeah, yeah, also for credit card prices processing, i can tell you idealware has an account with authorized dot net as our payment processor and and that integrates with our donor management system and so that’s a very common way of doing it. You’ll have a payment gateway that actually handles the credit card processing. But then the data is shared with your donor zsystems and that’s, where all the records of the gifts and donors and histories live. Okay, i don’t want you holding out on non-profit radio listeners. I mean, the discount is very nice, but we gotta go beyond that’s. Just the money we get value. Okay, you’re not holding back. I won’t let you. Um, yeah. And the book actually is very clear about naming. Like i said, different different vendor’s alternatives. Pricing. What might be appropriate for your size organization, etcetera. Consumer reports, plus reports. Plus just report. Yes. Um, can we talk a little bit more in general about serum? Do you mind if we could just get me off! You took me off. Well, we’re just we’re lifting off. You know, we’re in the helicopter were just going up higher and metaphors flying. I don’t know what a pilot either. All right? Yeah. Let’s talk about you because i think you feel strongly about it. You tried before and i said no. And now you’re back to it a third time. Okay? I’m just going to keep pushing. We would like to say i i think it’s important to look at it. We could wrap latto out. Let’s, move to fund-raising. Go ahead. What do you want, it’s important to look at? The whole landscape of different kinds of serum. And one one choice that people have to make is do they have it all in one constituent relationship management system? Or do they have specialized tools for different purposes? So think about it non-profits constituents, their donors, clients or service recipients. You know, whatever that might mean for your organization patrons, maybe, maybe its members, volunteers. And there are a number of different kinds of constituents that non-profit is interacting with. And what about vendors? I mentioned vendors could be included in here. Definitely. Okay. Trustees mean there are higher level of volunteer, right? That’s. What? I think that’s should be treated as a separate constituency. Okay, so lots of i mean, there are probably thirty or forty different kinds of constituents that the car brainstorm if you took the time. So so one way to do it is to choose one tool like one. Great to rule them all. You know, one one tool that sort of does everything. And in the book, we describe that as the swiss army knife approach. So if you think about a swiss army knife it’s, a great multipurpose tool that you can put in your pocket. It’s, inexpensive, lightweight. If you need to build a house, you’re probably not gonna use a swiss army knife, right? Yeah. That’s. My problem about specialized tool when i try home improvement that’s my toolbox. Yeah, on the tweezers. I didn’t find very valuable for the toilet repair. Well, so if your needs are pretty simple and if simplicity is important and if a low cost is is really essential assed. Well, then that’s what’s army knife approach might actually be really great. I mean, it doesn’t have a phillips and a flathead screwdriver way. Really versatile. Gotta fish. Official remover. I mean it’s de scaler. I mean, my swiss army knife is quite robust. Probably got eighteen or twenty things on there, so we have some exam glass screwdriver. Thie i glad the way the eyeglass screwdriver weaves into the corkscrew. It’s. Amazing. Have you seen that the corkscrew hold the eyeglass screwdriver because it has a little groove and it rolls into the corkscrew. He’s. Brilliant. Brilliant. So don’t don’t diss my my swiss army knife. All right, well, i’m not s o those those all in one kind of tools. They could be great. They work, they can work. All right. That’s, one way of doing it. But there are also choices for first specialized tools. And so there are a set of software applications for case management, which is that’s, where you would keep track of your client’s service recipients. There are some very specialized tools that are made for arts organizations that handle data about patrons. Ticketing not sort of thing. There that’s that’s a whole other events event ticketing, event processing, payment, processing, sponsorship. Okay, that’s a digression. Goods are their specialized tools for membership. Organizations or for association management, clearly, for doner management, we’ve we’ve probably talked about that enough your expertise there are all sorts of lt tools in this this space as well, and s so if you’re using maybe three different things one to keep track of your client’s one for donors, one for volunteers, then you likely need some way to tie that all together. And so that might mean an a p i that might mean just a process of wei have jargon jail on non-profit radio a p i that you know, i’m not even going to say what that stands for, ok, what is because it doesn’t matter what it means. Is it’s just a way for different databases to talk to each other? The way for them to exchange data? I’ve heard the phrase a p i call it’s a calling data from another system or table or something like that, right? All right, sharing data. Watch your step non-profit radio jargon jail. So there are more and more ways that air developing now to share data between systems, i think that’s becoming more important as organizations become more sophisticated and start to use more of these specialized tools, but then they think, well, wait a minute. What if we want to know how many of our donors are also volunteers? We need to get those system to talk to each other. Okay? And that’s tables, tables all talk to each other in the background, right? The tables are all talking to each other. It’s gonna be okay? Yeah. All right, all right. That’s, that’s. I have a degree in information system, so i know about tables and all right? We don’t have a prize when i was in college, though. All right now there’s some gold here when you start to get into actual talking about particular system donorsearch panitch mint systems. Um, let’s say, you say among the best values for organizations starting out or that have a small list fewer than a thousand records is little green light. I hope you don’t mind me saying this that’s missing that’s in the book it’s in the guy uh uh, which offers a basic package at four hundred twenty five dollars, plus discounts for new users via text soup. All right, so i mean that’s, the kind that’s. A level of detail that thing gets the guy gets it. I mean, it actually starts talking about now. Let’s, talk a little about tech suit, but some people may not be acquainted with with what that is and how it can help there. Technology work pre-tax soup is wonderful. There, there. Ah, good front of idealware as well along with and ten and texas does many different things, but one thing that’s really relevant here is that they are a distributor of discounts on software and hardware tools for nonprofit organizations. So so, for example, if you want to get adobe products at a deep discount, then you khun sign up for tech soup. You can register with them, and then you’re able to do that. I got my headset, which i used in my home office. I’ve a wireless had said at about an eighty percent discount, and the box came packed with tootsie rolls. Uh, and i got that through text soup. So cubine ended the cookie rolls. Well, it wasn’t actually. Valium sets dot com, i think, but they distribute their non-profit discounts through text soup. So eh? So if you’re looking for any of the software that is covered in the field guide or really any kind of technology tools for your non-profit i think it’s it’s good to at least check tech suit to see if they have a discount and not just not just software. I didn’t realize that i thought it was i i just always thought it was software, but you got you got headsets. So any technology product you’re looking for, right, look for tech soup. What’s their site was its text soup, dr dot or ge. And i should spell that since we’re on the radio because the other day i was talking to somebody about it and they said, oh, so what’s the website for duck soup. Duck soup, right? Marx brothers? Yeah. So it’s th s o u p dot org’s. Okay, okay. Or should i say e at the end, it doesn’t have any at the end of soup right now. The french tc h s o u p dot or ge? Yes. Okay. Okay. Texas dahna excellent hardware, too. All right. Um, you know, you talk about donorsearch prophetic. You talk about the bloomerang zsystems you’re going to blackbaud i mean, this is to me this is just gold. Um, all right. Let’s, take a break. And when we come back, i may get into a lot more of this gold because we should. We should share some of this with listeners. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m dana ostomel, ceo of deposit, e-giving and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m gonna continue my jump through the table of contents there. Section eight is communications, email, broadcast, email, email, discussion lists, graphics and multimedia mobile under mobile has broadcast texting mobile, aps, mobile friendly websites, social media, of course, facebook, linkedin, twitter, web’s under websites, content management systems, landing pages and micro sites online advertising search engine optimization. All this in the table of contents for the field guide, section nine choosing an implementing software. And karen and i are going to talk about that no in a fair amount of detail, so you get the guide for god’s sake, what else can i say? Idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio field guide two software for non-profits don’t go to amazon directly go teo idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio get your discount and then you’ll you’ll end up in the amazon, but get the discount the insider discount for listeners. Okay, karen let’s, talk a little about some detail or so i read about about little green light. You recommend you like that, one would say, you know it’s, not like you say, you know, best buy or something, but it says among the best values for organizations with fewer than a thousand records. Little green light people should look at that, right? A little green light and all of the suffer companies that were mentioned here were well rated in our consumer guide. Okay, we’re goingto fair now, right? We’re going to talk about more. So still talking in that up to a thousand records section dahna perfect. You like them? Well, sure, they were also very well rated. And don’t think that that is it’s a system that has some more robust features that might be useful to a slightly larger organization. Now, how do you how do you know this? All right. So i read that sentence before. Among the best values for organizations. I have a small list. A few thousand record, little green light, and now we’re saying don’t perfect. And also bloomerang is another one. How do you know what? What? Going testing. Is he’s gone through? Well, i’ll tell you about our research process. How did what’s behind this sentence that says, among the best values, how do we know that i should say that in every single one of these categories we have done some level of research in the constituent? Relationship management category. We’ve done a great deal of in depth research to compare these tools. So this is this is one of the most well research sections of the you’ve done, the research idealware itself has done the reese right and it’s not that we have used every single one of these systems, but we have we’ve talked teo a number of people who have expertise in the field and gotten their ideas about what are the important features and what are the important products to look at. And then we have looked at thirty some products and conducted demonstrations. We’ve surveyed them to get their answers to a long, long list of questions about features and capabilities and pricing and on and the company itself, you know, is it a stable company, that sort of thing? So so we’ve conducted quite a bit of research there, and then we’ve also for our consumers guide too low cost bonem management systems, we’ve done in depth demonstrations of a number of thes systems that go beyond the initial demonstrations and there, you know, maybe two additional hours of looking through every detail of what the software khun d’oh. Okay, excellent. That’s another great we shot that you mention that before the consumer guide, right? Yeah. All right, um, and we also fact check all that data with their all that information with the vendors as well. So before we publish anything they will sign buy-in off that what we’re publishing is factually accurate about their product. You mentioned bloomerang also has an availability for up to a thousand records, right? So that’s, another one to look at and that’s kind of a newcomer to the market that did not appear in the previous edition of the field guide. Not that they’re brand new. They’ve been around for several years now and are pretty well established. But that is an example of one that’s a little bit newer is j love bloomerang is that j dellaccio he’s been on the show years ago? First rodeo what’s, not his first round. I don’t know if he was with bloomerang then, but he’s been on the show also mentioned su mac offers a free basic cr m for up to five hundred records and charges just two hundred forty dollars a year for five hundred two thousand records. Right? Semak when that’s just one example of a number of these tools that are very affordable, even for tiny organizations. So we’re finding that even like some volunteer run organizations that have a budget, maybe even under one hundred thousand dollars a year are still finding that it’s valuable to them to invest in dahna management software and if they can get it for, you know, thirty, forty dollars a month, then that’s affordable? Fair enough. I agree, all right? And then, uh, there’s blackbaud i mean, they’re they’re in the small market, too. Um, blackbaud offers e tapestry the field guide says, yeah, okay, that’s, another option to look at. And i mean, in my opinion, where blackbaud really shines is with mohr enterprise applications and larger organizations, but they do have a product that was well reviewed for smaller organizations as well. Ok, that’s z tapestry, you tapestry, right? All right, we’re going to switch. We’re going, toto, how to choose what is best for your organization choosing implementing, um, number one. You want us to define our needs? You mentioned this before. We’ll say we’re more about this, right? Well, and actually, i would back-up from that, i think the static the first step is to determine whether you really need new software or not. Okay, so back to the story i told before where there was a softer package that was chosen without a lot of input from the staff there there wanting to change to new software, you know, they just want to start over, but is that the best thing for them? Maybe maybe your existing system can be modified added on to so let’s, talk to our vendors for the existing system and see if that can be scaled uppers or modified someone write about this already. I know. Yes, that zoho storming through the third cat. Why go through the tremendous effort and expense and frankly, a drain on morale, sometimes of making a software change? If you don’t really need tio drink, sometimes it’s better to improve what you have and and make sure that you’re not changing. Make sure that you’re not thinking that it’s a feature problem when really it’s a user adoption problem. People get confused about those things, the way people are using it versus what it might be able to do, right? That’s the distinction you’re making okay and that morale problem comes about because it’s, you know, if you’re if you’re doing a significant stuff where change learning a new system is a big deal it’s a big change in an organization it isthe alright, your says i can take up a lot of people’s energy and it can also productivity khun suffer for a while. It’ll probably bounced back up to a higher level than previously once you’ve gone through that, but productivity khun suffer during a change for sure, all right, after we know what our needs are, we go to a short list right a couple times, but i just have like a minute and a half left for this topic, i would suggest looking in depth that no more than four and take control of the demos. That’s my best advice for people who are shopping for software don’t just listen to the vendors jogging will fly through screen sharing and they’ll fly through for forty five minutes, but but but but you don’t even know if they want to impress you and show you all the bells and whistles and, you know, that’s great! I used to sell software i know i know how. That is, but but you want to make sure that you’re seeing the things that are most applicable to your situation and seeing the same thing would say, you look at three different vendors. You want them all to show? Like, how do you enter a pledge, or or whatever it is that you decide is an important business case for our use case for you. You want them all to show the same thing so that you could make a fair comparison. We just have to wrap up with the idea that you might need a consultant. You might consider getting a consultant to help you with this software selection, right? And having been a consultant, i can say that if you do some homework before you work with the consultant, that will be a much valuable, more valuable engagement for you. And it actually will be probably more enjoyable for the consultant as well. If they have a well educated client who knows the right questions to ask and has thought through their needs a bit before they start working with you. But it is sometimes very valuable. Tohave a consultant walk side by side with you and help you with this process it’s the idealware field guide to software for non-profits non-profit radio listeners get the insider discount goto idealware dot org’s slash non-profit radio karen graham you want to follow her on twitter? She’s at karin t graham t for theresa and the organisation with all its outstanding resource is is that idealware dot or ge? You gotta check this organization out and the field guy just get the darn thing. How many times have i said it? Karen, thank you so much. Thank you, tony. Real pleasure. Next week, it’s risk management day healthcare funding and data breaches and don’t glaze over because we’re gonna make this fine and interesting. If you missed any part of today’s show, i’d be seat. You find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Betty mcardle is our am and fm outreach director shows social media is by sea soon chavez and this cool music is by scott. Stein, be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Hey! Buy-in what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno. Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make you feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for February 3, 2017: Grow Your Sustainer Revenue & Protect Your Donors’ Data

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into vou care. Arai assis, if you wormed in with the idea that you missed today’s show, grow your sustainers revenue you want more sustainers we’ve got the formula multi-channel up, sell benchmark avoid attrition. The panel is alison weston and chrissy hyre from chapman, cubine adams and husi and sabra lugthart with the trust for public land, this was recorded at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and protect your donor’s data. You don’t want to be the next headline. You don’t want to fight with a donor over whether you compromised their credit card number. We’ll keep you safe and in compliance. Also from sixteen ntc are tracy lorts and joshua alan, both with greater e-giving tony, take two seventeen and tc responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. Wee bey e spelling dot com here’s, our first panel on growing your sustainers revenue from the sixteen ntc, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference with the convention center in san jose, california. My guests now our chrissy hyre alison weston and several lugthart chrissy is see you’re strategist at chapman, kyu buy-in, adams and pronounce all those hyre directly did even cubine you did? Yeah, i should have asked you before, but we’re rolling now. Alison weston is, uh, also with chapman, cubine adams and yep. Okay, what do you do there, though? Does have a title for you. I’m a digital account executive. Okay. Excellent. And say piela oneaccord is associate director of annual giving at the trust for public land. It was a very simple one. Thank you. We love everything documented here correctly. Thank you. Before we start with shot out swag arse crack item for this interview is from cornershop, cornershop, creative it’s ah it’s vegetables. We’ve got sure that’s an eggplant got tomato stress balls no pair stress ball also. But all the vegetables items are not stress balls. We have a banana pen. We had a chili pepper osili all from cornershop creative. So thank you very much. This goes into our swag. Pile ilsen would you help me budged? And those items put him up front. There we go. Oh, the implant. Okay, but all this way, swag pile. Thank you very much. Okay, ladies. Let’s, get serious about sustainers now, sabre, you have to depart a little early. So when sabelo leaves it’s not because my questions suck or anything like that because you have to go because we’re running a little behind. So let’s, start with you. Make sure you get. Yeah e-giving for some time. What is the problem that non-profits are not getting things quite right with sustaining don’t? Well, first, i’ll preface that i’m a client of cch that’s, right? I think we’ll give my organization has an example before i started working at the trust republic land way just didn’t have a sustainers program in place there nobody we didn’t have a dedicated staff member. Um, well, you know, sustainers air worth so much in revenue. So, you know, we did all of these things we work towards that teo grow our program and really recruit sustainers so i think, really the bottom line is is over time when you build your sustainers program, it just generates so much revenue for your organization so it’s worth focusing on okay, we’re we’re for some reason we’re not what we what we alison, what do we not quite getting right about building our sustainers base? I think a lot of regulations do get some things right. I wouldn’t marry you. What herself not getting quite right, i think you know, a big factor for continued, most like sustainers growth online is continue testing so there’s a lot of things to do with donation forms and, you know, i think once you find something that works, that doesn’t mean it’s going to continue to work. So i think one thing we talked about in our sessions, they was keep testing online and keep holding it on things in your donation form and making sure that, you know, you’re continuing to grow and try new things, okay, chrissy, if you want to add to our overviewing this point, i think, you know, maybe two things that i would add to what these ladies have said that, you know, having organizations make sure that they’re taking a multi channel approach to sustain a recruitment that they’re using all the same channels. That there, soliciting one time, gibson for sustainers recruitment and then really evaluating on the back end. Making sure that once they go to all of the trouble of making sure that folks have become monthly donors, that they’re staying monthly donors. And they’re staying engaged in the organization. Why do you think some organizations aren’t taking st multi-channel approach for sustainers that they are for other types of dahna with what’s happening disconnect? Well, i think that, you know, i think that people get a little bit overwhelmed sometimes by, you know, the number of thing are the kind of logistical set up that it takes to start a sustainers program, and so it seems, i think sometimes like, oh, the easy way to do this would be just to do it online let’s, just sell this through email let’s just do a light box, let’s just do it digital ads, you know? And that seems like kind of an easier kind of entry point into sustainers e-giving whereas you know something like telemarketing, for example, which is what i really focus on with my clients can feel a little bit scarier, a little bit more, a little bit bigger, maybe a little bit tougher to bite off, okay, yeah, i think also for a lot of non-profits data is just a challenge, even just getting everything set up in the back, and i know sabra, you had a lot of leg work to do before you got started so i would say, yeah, just getting your house in order before you can even get started and keeping it in order and keeping your data clean. It’s a big challenge, especially with this scene. E-giving okay, all right, so let’s, start with our multi-channel approach to sustain. E-giving now, of course, we’re talking about monthly monthly. Sustainers is that right? Is that we’re all so everyone’s on the same page, okay, monthly sustainers huh? Our multi-channel approach are we trying to convert existing donors to sustaining or we try to require new donors? Sustainers or both, you can do it all, you can have it all. So, you know, i think that’s sort of the lowest hanging fruit is converting the people who are already connected to your organisation as donors and two monthly givers. I think that a lot of organizations also find tremendous success with kind of warm prospects, online activists and that kind of audience and then certainly alison and sabelo could speak to this, but one of the things we find works really well, digitally is using sustainers e-giving is an acquisition tool. Yeah, so i mean, i think there’s, the biggest factor we’ve seen in converting to see here, has been doing a recent cso like christie said, making sure that you’re getting people that sustaining ask after they’ve made a one time gift anything there’s a lot of ways to do that online, trust me publicly, and they do, you know, a few different things. One of them is a rolling email out to you one time donors, ten days post donations so that’s a good way of you know, reaching out to people when they’re current. In recent donors, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna oppcoll okay, let’s, let’s, drill down. But what does that email saying? Thanks them for their gift? Sabelo what does it say? Yes, so the again the emails sent out ten days after the after donor-centric thank you, basically, thank you very much for your recent gift that builds a case for support of why sustaining gifts are so important and it’s all wrapped around the mission of our organization at the end, it says, would you please consider becoming a monthly donor and that’s about what’s in the mail and a link to click to, of course, yes, all of the links to other clip now, when they get there, do they also get a written acknowledgement for their one time give if in our organization, if they give online, they get an automated and they get an automated email and sustainers get a different kind of automated email. So okay, we’re not going out there, and i’m still the one time donor. If they make an online gift to get a in ordinated email on our ana made it basically, thank you eat tax receipt online and then if they don’t, it makes a gift off line they get, you know, they get mail ok in that in that offline, direct mail are they also invited to become sustainers in direct mail? Yeah, so we do dio way doo doo like a b r e slip and direct mail asking has a sustainers ask, and we do do some segmentation and email like we recently sent out a tax receipt that asked people to become, you know, if they had recently given a one time gift, asked them to become a sustainers consider becoming a sustainers and i think that that’s actually really speaks to kind of some of the multi-channel approach that we’re talking about, which yet, you know, it’s, not even just which channels you’re inviting people to become a sustainers through, but branding the program across everything that you send a donor so thinking them with that, you know, and making that sustainers asking, just kind of keeping that in the forefront of their mind as they go through. Sort of their donor life cycle. Okay. Uh r r one time donors asked again before their other once on gift if they hyre turn down the first sustainers nasco they then asked, like i said before there before their other annual gift. Yeah, good question we solicit our month. Well, we are monthly donors on a limited mail solicitation track, so we only send the mailings three times a year. Um and yeah, so we will when it that time is appropriate. The year and campaign. We will ask them to make a one time contribution or we’ll ask them to upgrade their gifts. So we do. Sorry, i’m kate reverting back to monthly donor is not one time your gifts. Sorry, my question was, how often do you ask one time donors to become sustainers you ask them the first time after ten days after their first there one time gift, how often after that? Before their next one time. We don’t have a player friend. Yeah, we don’t have a plan for that right now. Okay? Alison and christine, do you think that is advisable? Or should you just continue to wait until they made their other? Their next one time? Well, one of the things that we find to be really successful is again, kind of, you know, you’re asking the multiple times, but maybe you’re not asking them in the same way, so you’re, you know, you’re thanking them for their gift and there’s this kind of soft asked for them to become a sustainers then you send them an email and explain the program to them and ask them to become a sustainers that way, then you call them and ask them to become a sustainers and then you follow up from that and say, thanks so much for listening. Is this something you would consider so it’s? Not it’s, kind of a cohesive strategy that asked them multiple times, but it’s not necessarily like these kind of random, you know, isolated asks it’s, sort of an overarching okay, okay, that make sense. Yeah, it sure does. And allison, to your point about the importance of data earlier now, obviously way. Have to have good data for all these channels. Christy just described we need a phone number. I need their e mail. We need accurate mailing address, right? The importance of good data. Before we could do anything. Yeah, no, that’s that’s. Definitely right. Okay, way also need to know piggybacking on that how they want to be communicated with. So suppose somebody doesn’t want to receive phone calls. Yeah, i mean that that definitely has to be taken into account. You don’t make the donor injury. You want to communicate with them in the channel that they prefer to be communicated with thin. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that someone who donates online is only ever going to donate online that’s. Why i keep talking about the multi-channel approach. So in fact, forty five percent of the stayner’s that we see recruited into programs are actually recruited as a sustainers by a different channel in the first channel, they gave a gift to the organization, and so we brought them in through mail. But then they became a sustainers through the phone or online, or they came in on line. And then we made the ms sustainers half convert. They’re giving channel. Exactly. Okay, use the right language that you did. It was very krauz. All right, so we still have a good amount of time together. Sabelo before you have to. Go now. Yeah. Okay. She was taken by your sorry have really thank you. Nothing duitz conversation. Okay, thank you for saying that. Even if not sabelo breaks down. So it was like that. All right, thank you. Say thanks for joining us. Okay, now we’re now we’re just left with the consultant. So now we’re in a big, big loss. I did play e-giving fund-raising. Well, it was not it was not serious. Where should we take this next? Right. We talked about how i’m gonna convert at a game. What else have we, uh, not talk about that? We should in this hole multi-channel topic. Campaign ideas. You have some campaign ideas? Yeah. I mean, i could talk a little bit out some different things that we’ve seen we’re calling, why don’t you? Okay, i hold out on non-profit radio. Sure. So i think one of the things we’ve seen work really well with a lot of clients in a lot of different areas has been sustainers up so light box. So that means basically, on your one time get form, somebody makes the onetime gift and before their gift actually process is a light box pops up. And says, hey, things for your let’s define like box everybody doesn’t know whether it’s opaque shoretz i’m not okay. You know, when you go on a site and kind of the site gray’s out and then something pops up to the forefront that’s basically what? George in jail on non-profit radio yeah, try to help you out of it. Sorry, so you can still see through? You can still see through it. So pictures yeah, so picture this you’ve made, you’ve made a gift, then you know you’re you hit process, and then the screen kind of gray’s out in a box pops up and it says, you know, has a nice image and it says, you know, thanks for your gifts before we process your one time gift, would you like to turn this into a monthly gift and you can click no or you can click x and x out of it, and you’re one time gift will still process. But if you could yes, then it will convert to you become a sustainers so you’re catching people right at the moment when they’re making a gift and you just get people to convert and we’ve seen that works really well for bringing a new sustainers, but also doesn’t depress one time. Revenue does not. Okay, okay, what do we know about what? What amounts to ask them to? Would you like to make this gift to sustaining you? Well know, the mountains is different. So in the back end of the light box itself, there’s kind of an ask string tree, so basically gives a range. So if you make a gift between, say, five and fifteen dollars, and you ask for a five dollars monthly gift or, you know, if you kind of move up and you make a thirty two fifty dollars, gift your ass for a little bit hyre maybe, you know, fifteen or twelve dollars monthly gift so it’s kind of tiered. So you’re making sure that you’re asking for the right amount from people what we call that strategy. That’s the sustainer, upsell, lightbox okay, sustainers yeah, i terminology, yeah, as long as you define it joining way don’t like talking about it. Criminology sustainers upset like box, of course, who doesn’t know what that is like? Everybody who listens to cop radio does now that you know, you just treyz down. So i don’t think so. Sustainers upsell white-collar christine woman a woman who sat in your seat before this interview was so that was misty magog a chrissy hyre christy, what other campaign strategy can you share? Well, campaign strategies? Um, you know, i think that as alison alluded to one of the most important things that we see for organizations to remember, no matter what channel they’re trying to recruit, sustainers through is really the recency of the gift. So i think that a lot of times organizations have a little bit of a fear that if they asked too close lead to this is to the person’s original gift that it’s going to seem ungrateful to be like. Well, now, could you do ten dollars a month? Like ten days? Seems to be okay. Ten days a spine. In fact, the most successful phone programs we do call people within thirty days, which that’s really close? I mean, they just gave a gift. But you really want their commitment and their passion for the organization to be top of mind. And any time in the thirty days, not the next day. Not the next day. No, typically. The window starts kind of two weeks after their gift for two weeks to thirty days, you’re safe in asking for sustainers gift after someone made a one time yep, absolutely and of course, you know you want you want to thank them, you want to appreciate them for the amazing donorsearch es are but that’s, you know, that’s totally acceptable. And i think the other thing that we talked a lot about today and that we could go into a little bit more now is sort of what to do with sustainers once you bring them on, and so i think that you know, sustainers support is great because it’s the stable monthly revenue, but it’s not a set it and forget it kind of strategy and so there’s a lot of work that has to be done once you actually bring these folks to the table to become monthly donors, to make sure that they stay engaged and passionate and interested and that they continue to give and you don’t lose them because their credit card expired or they just sort of became disa passion with your organization. Okay, very important too. Yes, yes, we don’t, we don’t. Want to lose? You don’t want to lose our donors. What do we know about out? After someone becomes a sustainers do they then keep up their their annual giving, too? So this is something that a lot of organizations kind of go back and forth with. Do you continue to ask sustainers for one time gifts? Do you try to just upgrade their sustainers gift, like what is the perfect mix of howto results in them? And so one of the things that we found is that, you know, thes air your most committed, passionate donors, and so it is completely acceptable to ask them for a one time gift. A lot of folks use a strategy called the thirteenth gift, where in december they’ll ask sustainers to give sort of the thirteenth gift of the year. If you have, like, a key matching gift campaign or something really urgent happening within the organization sustainers air great group of people to reach out to on dh, then organizations have seen success upgrading sustainers is close to their original sustaining gift is three months after they give it. So you know, there’s there’s really no hard and fast rule it’s kind of about testing and finding what works best for the organization. Okay, even okay, things. That that sound unusual to me, even just within three months of their first sustainers gift it’s okay, in some cases to ask the upgrade that absolutely so we worked with a really large non-profit that has an extraordinarily large sustainers program and what they they tested six months versus three months in terms of a sustainers upgrade and found no difference. At three months that is many people upgraded the donor’s weren’t displeased to be getting called again so quickly that folks felt really engaged and excited. They kind of under you just always have to explain what their support is doing. Why is that additional three dollars, a month so important? Allison, could you help us with went to be thanking our sustaining donors? I think is pretty well recognized don’t think them every month, but do we thank them every year? What’s appropriate? Yeah, i think i think they definitely need to think them, but not overthink them, but i think something else that you can do more often is kind of keep those engagement touches going, so send engaging emails that aren’t just asking people for money, sending them something that’s going to keep them tied. To the mission of the organization and kind of keep the organization top of mind without asking them for money every single time they’re opening an e mail from you. Eso whether that’s a quiz about your organization reading article, you know something, something fun like that to keep them engaged, it informed, i think, is really important and sustainers going, of course, be lumpkins that along with everyone else on your email list on your contact list, but i think you know it’s nice at the end of the year at the beginning of the year to send out a nice impact email or an impact, you know, whatever you’re doing to show, um, you know how much their support meant to you over the year and all the stuff that you were able to do because of all the, you know, consistent support that sustainers gave you okay? So generally recognized that end of the year is is the best time or if there’s, another key bowman in your organization? I don’t think it’s a problem to thank donors, but i think you can do really consistent engagement emails, teo, to keep folks, you know, tied to your organization okay, way too little a budgeting conversation. Okay. Dahna what? What are expense items that we need to factor into creating a sustaining sustainers? Provoc well, i think that in some regards and allison definitely jump in. I think that when you think about sustainers recruitment, you almost have to think about it in the same way you think about acquisition, and so, you know, you’re going to invest in acquisition, but it’s a long term kind of long game strategy and sustainers recruitment is the same way, so you know that obviously one of the biggest cost is making sure you have the back and systems to process the spokes monthly, that you’re not gonna lose track of that. And, you know, all of that is part of the organizational budget i would assume and then additionally, you know, making sure that you are kind of realizing that if you’re starting a program from scratch, this is like the long game, this isn’t something that’s going to pay off in three months. This is something that you’re looking at in some cases, if you really want to build a large program, the big net is going to happen. After a year, maybe two years, maybe three years, depending on how big you want to go. Okay, so you gotta be in it for a longer term, right? Any other budget type factors? Allison, you want to jump in? No, i think you pretty much well covered it, but i think, you know, if you’re sending out e mails, you obviously have to have a sierra. So i think a lot of the stuff you know, most organizations already have but it’s a matter of using it for recruiting sustainers but definitely i think the biggest hurdle for a latto organizations is getting that peanut processing set up. Okay, got a meat processing that you trust? Are there payment processors that you like? You want to give a shout out to particularly well. Okay, what about strength? Yeah. So, you know, i think that this isn’t so much about the actual monthly processing, but, you know, there’s there are a lot of great tools out there right now, like stripe or a man tive that help recapture credit card information before it lapses, which really helps organizations that are trying to build sustainers program stem. That sustainers attrition on. Dit could be a really huge factor and turning around sustainers avenue. Okay, now, what was the second advantage vantive used to be? Lytle now, it’s canton. Okay, so we know that when credit cards laps, we’re likely to lose sustainers donors so just kind of some quick stats i can share with you, so i work with pretty large sized political action committee, and they’re very committed growing their sustainers program, they spend a lot of money investing in this new sustainers growth and so this year or in twenty fifteen, rather we saw this pattern where we were exceeding our budget projections for new sustainers revenue every single month and our sustainers number was decreasing every single month, so just, like, made no sense, right defied logic, so we dug in to see, you know, what’s going on? Why are all these people falling off the file? Because the problems really attrition and of those folks who are falling off, eighty percent of them were falling off because of bad credit card numbers. So this was sort of during that time where we all got this new chip cards or their expiration dates were expiring, theyjust were getting new cards and we weren’t able to contact them quickly enough to get that new credit card back on file. So with this process all of a sudden, you know, we implement this in december, and we go from losing thousands of dollars every month to seeing, like, twenty three percent growth since december through february. Okay, so what are we doing in advance of the credit card lapse? So a little bit technical and that’s? Not really my bailiwick, i will tell you, but so basically, what thes companies do is they contract with banks so that they have a relationship with the bank to update your credit card before it ever even expires. So, for example, if you have a netflix account, you probably notice that your credit card never actually expires. No matter what. You know how many cards your bank is sending you in the mail and that’s because they’re contracting with them directly to get that information so that you, the consumer, don’t have to go in and update all of that. Oh, i see. Ok, so it’s all happening transparent to you. It happens automatically, right? You never have to decide. I’ve given enough. To this organization, exactly it’s a customer service convenience that actually saves organizations a lot of money. Yes, it’s also non-profit exactly. All right. All right. We still have a couple of minutes left. Zoho some benchmark benchmark’s is for sustainers growth. Allison, help us with that. Yeah. I mean, i think it depends where different organizations are in their sustaining journey about growing their program. So i think, you know, when folks are thinking about starting or growing at sustainers program, you have to kind of set your own benchmarks that i can throw it a couple stats. I think you know, some things to consider. You know, overall good, healthy benchmark would be about having ten percent of your revenue comes from sustaining, giving. So, you know, that varies from organization organization, but i think that’s kind of ah, national benchmark it like a good back of the napkin calculation on that. I also think some other things to consider are just, you know, benchmarking and kind of setting some goals for how much revenue goals you want to have come from a scene e-giving and also thinking through, you know, looking at how much you want to spend to acquire these donors and then what’s the return on investment. How long are these sustainers staying on the file? Are they lapsing off? Is there a certain channel that’s? Not really working very well. Maybe honing in on, you know, tweaking your strategy a little bit. So i think there’s different things and it’s it’s going to be different for every organization you know, not everyone is the same place in there seeing e-giving program. But those air something’s toe consider. Okay. Okay, christy, i want to leave us with i think that ultimately what i would say is that while building a sustainers program is an investment, it ultimately is so worth it. It is probably the number one thing that organizations khun due to help grow their files. Folks who become a credit card sustainers will stay on your vile for thirty seven months or longer. They’re your best prospects for plan giving. They’re your best prospects for mid level upgrading. And they are ultimately kind of the core of your fund-raising once you develop that audience is ideal, concise, beautiful. Thank you, ladies. Thank you. Ok, they are christy hyre and she’s, a senior strategist. At chapman cubine adams and she was right. Okay on. Alison is also there doing marcus ellis, a digital account exec. You can’t exactly fucking watch, ladies. Thank you. Martignetti. Non-profit radio coverage of sixteen non-profit technology conference san jose, california. Thank you so much for being with us. Protect your donor’s data is coming up first. Pursuant. Have you checked out their white paper overcoming the major donor dilemma? It’ll help you. The research is free. It’s valuable it is. I can make it any simpler. This stuff is helpful. This one, the overcoming the major dahna dilemma covers identification, engagement and cultivation of new major donors. So you’re finding them, you’re getting them active and then you’re cultivating for the solicitation. Overcoming the major donor dilemma it’s at pursuing dot com you click resource is and then content papers. We’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising have you checked out their latest video, it’s from a night that raised money for help for children raised over one hundred ten thousand dollars, the organisation needed help. It turned to re be spelling. You can see it all documented. They’re documentarians it’s all there on the video at we b e spelling dot com now for tony’s take two, the twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference so we got two interviews today from twenty sixteen. I urge you, i can’t be seat you because that belongs elsewhere, but i urge you, i implore you to check out the twenty seventeen non-profit technology conference it’s march twenty third, twenty fourth, twenty fifth in washington d c there’s always there’s like one hundred or more there’s more than one hundred smart speakers, smart seminar leaders they’re all talking about how to use technology smarter, more efficiently, brighter all just better to help you do your work and is not only for technically oriented people mean, i go and i interviewed people and i can hold my own in the conversation so you can too on you don’t even have to converse with them. I mean, if you don’t talk to somebody and then just don’t talk, just listen but it’s not on ly for geeks, which is no longer a pejorative now than it was when i was growing up. But now it’s ah, people boast about being geeks but it’s not only for them, so if you’re using technology and ah, you’re odds are you’re listening on a smartphone, so guess what xero embedded in your life using it to do your work accomplish your mission. Then i would check out twenty seventeen and tc get latto all the info at and ten and tn dot or ge and that is tony steak too. Here’s, our second panel on protecting your donor’s data. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc this is also part of ntc conversations. We are at the san jose convention center kicking off our day to coverage. My guests are tracy lorts and joshua. Alan tracy is community marketing manager for greater e-giving on dh joshua is not listed in the program. How come? Last minute addition in addition, okay, joshua, tell us your title and your organization. So students engineer with greater e-giving what kind of engineer? Solutions solutions engineer with greater e-giving okay, they’re seminar topic is super boring. Crazy important p c i and protecting protecting your donor’s data. What? Thank you, joshua. Welcome. Thank you. All right, we have to acquaint listeners with what? P c i is i’m going to assume that a lot of people don’t know a post. We have jargon jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio, so we want to start off with you in prison in george in jail. That was tracy, since you’re most concerned about prison justin, maybe you’ve done time, so i don’t know, but you’re not not it’s. Not about jargon. Jail. All right, tracy, what is p c i? So p c i is an acronym that stands for the payment card industry. So it’s, a set of standards that’s put forth by all major card brains around the world to ensure a set of security standards are implemented by everyone involved in the card processing services. Okay, security standards, if you’re involving card processing, is it also dependent on what kind of data you save and whether you save data? Yeah, s o p c i has a set of data security standards called tell them the twelve pc ideas s going to get more darken. And thats the data security standard. Okay, so it’s a set of twelve requirements that are kind of a minimum standard for anyone involved in card processing that you have to meet those standards in order to be compliant with pcs. Okay, joshua, you’re doing this session so safe to assume that a lot of non-profits i don’t know what pc is my assumption, correct? They may not know what it is or they know what it is, and i’m not sure how to start so that that’s what our purpose far session is to is to get people acquainted with with what they what they should start learning to know and then and protect themselves and their donors. Data. Okay, okay, what is it? What is the best way to get started with learning pc? I mean, is it just a matter of twelve gss is or is there a better way to make entry into this for people aren’t familiar? Yeah, you need to know more if they are a little familiar. Yeah. There’s a four different levels of pc i compliance and it’s, based off of the number of transactions that you’re doing on a yearly basis. S oh, that would be the number of people that would be impacted if your organization were to have a breach so larger businesses processing, you know, billions of transactions annually have more stringent requirements than someone on ly processing in the thousand thousand transactions per year range. I’m so most, you know, most large large companies air having to do really, really strict requirements for p s p c i but if you’re a smaller processor, you really just have to complete what’s called the self assessment questionnaire that’s put forth by the p c i council and you have to do it on an annual basis and it’s basically as self verification that you are complying with all the requirements of pcs. Okay, let’s, just take one step back. Joshua if people maybe you’re in a smaller organization on, they don’t really want to take this on which we’re going to be talking about for the next twenty minutes. They could just accept gifts by check. Yeah, that’s always a possibility. Absolutely they could. But as we’re as we’re going into the digital age it’s very important that organizations open themselves up to the other fund-raising streams, including credit card payments and okay, i just want to put it out there. Yeah, just briefly, you could. This really scares you. And it was really small shop. You could just not accept credit card donation, right? But you’re missing out on the town. Of donations. Okay, this is it. It’s. Really? Not a big scary idea. You know that twelve requirements are really simple. Concepts like having a firewall in place. That’s one of the twelve. So they’re things that should be a part of your security process and your security policies is a non-profit to begin with. So they’re things that you should already be doing. It’s really? Just about ensuring that all of the checks and balances are in place. Ok. Ok. What are what are the four different categories? There’s twelve? No, twelve other. There are four categories based on the tear, your revenue, your number of processes for per year. Yes. Okay. You just lay out what? Those forty years. You could just tears called him. Tier one tier don’t know the terminology. I gotta be on the terminology. Okay? Right here. One through four. There’s. Some specific data. So i think she’s. Yeah. So okay, a tier one eye merchants going to be processing over six million transactions annually. That’s, that’s. A lot of, um a tier two. Going to be processing one million to six million. Tier three is twenty thousand to a million and then tear. Forest. Twenty thousand or less. Okay, so we would expect most to be three or four correct, vast majority for yes, okay, but we’re looking in the three and forty years, yes, level for most for most. Non-profits. Okay, all right, we’re just going to go through the, uh, that twelve. Yeah, we can ok. Have all these twelve applied to the tiers three and four, they d’oh okay, no matter what, okay, okay. It’s, just that simple. Should we just took him off? We can. Twelve. Yeah, okay, is there anything else we need to any other ground work we need to set for people who don’t know this stuff like me and anything else i should know before we go through the twelve? Well, i think it may be important that even though you do these twelve steps, it does not automatically prevent you from being breeched or unable to continue with these steps, right? But this is the industry standard is the industry standard. So even if you are breached, you can at least say we’re meeting the industry standards. But we still got, you know, we still got our data stolen or reached, right? It’s it’s not the it’s, not the end. All prevention from right, there’s. Almost nothing. I mean, if you have a bad guy in your or bad woman in your office nothing’s going to prevent that or right out of your office or out of it, so okay, all right, well, we can’t prevent one hundred per cent. We could be industry compliant, and we’ll get into some trouble. If we’re not industry complaint, maybe we should just have a little a little more motivation. What happens if you decide? You don’t want to do the pc adhere to the pc high standards? Are there civil or criminal? Sametz people there can be yes, definitely if you if you have a breach and you’re not complain with p c i or even if you are and you still have a breech, there are some potential ramifications. There’s actually quite a if you um most notably there’s some fees associate it that that your non-profit can receive on and there could be legal action taken against you. Obviously, if there was something that came up, that was ah, a major issue for your organization. So you’re better off. Obviously, if you’re our complaint can’t find them, tracy can’t okay. Joshua said, fees it’s a lot of information. All right, give us an idea of a penalty regularly. Regulatory notification requirements that just be like letting people know that you had a data breach, which is not good. You’re bad organization. Weren’t you weren’t complaining? Definitely. Loss of reputation, loss of donors, potential financial liabilities like fees and fines. And in some situations, litigation could be taken against you. Okay. Okay. And and all those situations, you’re in a much better position if your pc i compliant. Definitely. Okay, alright. Still more motivation. All right, let’s, start with our, uh we got the twelve. These are the twelve gss requirements. Yes, right. And what is the ss again? Data security standard. That a security standard requirements? Yes. Okay, s the number one isn’t install and maintain a fire wall pretty commonly done across most organizations. But obviously important to keep in mind that it’s up to date and that you’re continually checking on its security and making sure that it’s working accurately. Um yes, but you don’t have a three year old firewall. No, no. That’s. Not gonna do you any good. Okay. Ah, number twos do not use vendor supply defaults for system passwords. Okay, let’s, dive into this a little more now. Passwords. Don’t you? What you want to amplify what we should be doing with our passwords. Don’t use password. Wei had panel yesterday. Password? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, six and p word or so there was another one. Password with a zero for the o that’s. Really common. We actually cover the top twenty five most commonly used passwords in the last year in our presentation. Right? We’ll roll a few off these. They’re all bad people do not use the first one to say this is a list of what not to do with your password. Not what to do? Yes, exactly. Please don’t use these this’s good information for your daily life as well. S o so some of the top passwords are one, two, three. Four five six password one two three four five six seven eight corti more number strings football baseball welcome let me in, master monkey princess, my two favorite that made the list this year were as solo and star wars solo and star wars. Yes, alright, so they’re related. All right, bad passwords don’t use these, don’t you? You’re opening yourself up means the top twenty five passwords in the country. You’ve got to have something a lot more secure than one of the top twenty five, and you have to bet that that hackers that are out there no thes passwords are commonly is and all the other, you know, simple variations like using numbers to substitute for letters in the top things, you know, just don’t do it for god’s sake, how much plainer can we make it? And if you have passwords protecting your donor’s data, don’t use it across all of your your different systems that use that your your organization that is very important as well you’re saying have different passwords for the different software system? Absolutely all right, so don’t use the user default. I mean, don’t use a default password. What else was buried in that one, tracy there’s, little more. I thought, um, that was it. Don’t use vendor supplies, defaults, orb system, password. Now you’re decent password. Joshua wanted to read the next one protect card stored cardholder data. So this’s big now, yeah, that starts going into your files and being sure that the information that you do collect is relevant and important, too, maintaining accurate files, handup, but keeping them in a locked, stored area where they tried to help me out here. What was the research on this one? You want to cut back your risk of someone getting access to cardholder dahna? Obviously on dso, you wanna make sure that if you were using digital systems that use encryption, truncation are masking of card numbers, which means masking would be if you are, if you have a set of credit card numbers that your entire string except for, say, the last four digits, which is the most commonly used, wait up tio mask a card number, all of those air exes except for the last four Numbers so that would be 1 way to protect to the data that you’re storing. Let me ask a threshold question similar to my, you know, accepting check questions. What have you do? Credit card processing? What? You’re not storing credit card numbers, you’re still going to be able to benefit from no credit card transactions, right? But just don’t they have to store the numbers with the advantage there you don’t. So i would say that most on profits or using some sort of external service to actually process card data they, of course, as the merchant in that situation are having they do have access to card numbers for a short period of time when they’re transitioning it from there, their hands into their processors hands isn’t microseconds it’s, it’s seconds, but you never know what could happen, and you also never know, especially if it’s in a digital situation who could be watching what you’re doing that also includes the last four digits of a number or the expiration date as well. That all pertains that cardholder data. So even if you’re only storing the last four digits, yeah, you have to do this. We’re going to make sure it’s secure, okay, so in storing all sixteen and storing all only for no difference, you have to do all these things. All right, it’s. All right, so all right, so back to my simple minded question, maybe. Do you do you need to start, right? So i’m asking, do you need to store it? You’re saying you do have it in your possession for a short time, the microseconds or whatever that it goes to the processor that’s still considered you storing it right? And how did you get that data? To begin with that’s? The other questions to come encrypted. It has to come in in some fashion. So i mean, could it be a donation envelope that had that information written down on it? What do you do with it after you’ve processed it donation envelope? Can you shred it? What if you just shred it? That would be a great way to get rid of it, okay? Or burn it burning well, about having that’s always dramatic, but it actually works. We’ve talked about having burned piles in the office. You have a pc. I burn party. You could end of every week. Yeah, yeah, but you just want to make sure that it is completely, you know, it’s completely out of your hands, you’re no longer have access to it anymore, especially when it includes all of that. Really important cardholder data. Okay? And we’re talking about address name? Just a number. Correct. Not just the card number, but they’re mailing address their zip code. That’s the kind of stuff you do need to save because you wanted to mailings. Correct? Yeah. And and most of the time, you know, that kind of information is stored on under management system and those those systems are secure, so you obviously have to have access to them using a log in and password on dh. That information generally is going to be going to be secure as long as you’re using a really good password. Obviously, yes, way covered, that one. Don’t go back now way, have twelve to cover. I’m sure we’re gonna get it, but they all were with each other. That’s, your sister, all right. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guest directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll Joshua read another 1 please. The next one encrypt transmission of cardholder data across your open public networks. So if you are a larger non-profit working, you know, with the main central office, you want to make sure that any of the cardholder data that you are sending is encrypted, you know, meaning you’re using. No, sorry. What of encryption protocols are in place? Couldn’t find the words are okay. All right, so you need to know. You need yes. You need some kind of expertise to know that you’re encryption. Protocol is correct. Yep. Okay. And that includes obviously working with your particular vendor that’s processing your cards for you that the system that they’re using is goingto also encrypt the data for you. Okay, that was a two way street that they’re encrypting also. All right, what else we got? Joshua let’s. Go ahead. You would protect all systems and gets malware and regularly update antivirus software program. So that mcafee system that it’s always bugging you in your in your bottom, right hand corner to update. You want to make sure that you’re continually keeping up to date with those. Oh, and updating to the latest software, especially with your your your donor management system software as well. So any bugs could be worked out routinely and kept up to date on this. Okay, okay, that was that was malware was an anti virus that is now wearing it tomorrow. You want to make sure they’re europe today and that that that system wide, teo. Obviously, a lot of you know, large organizations have hundreds of computers that are using that network. So you have to make sure that every single device that’s accessing your network is secure and updated on a regular basis. Okay. Okay, tracy want teo, don’t you give us a couple all right, number six, develop and maintain secure systems and applications. S o that’s just basically saying, you know, there are tons of vulnerabilities out there to your security system, and the landscape is constantly changing, so you need to make sure they hear up to date with, you know, vendor provided security patch is kind of like what josh was mentioning with your dahna management system that you’re keeping it up today if there’s any updates that come out with that on dh, that all systems have software patches and are just, you know, you’re managing and maintaining them on an annual basis. Okay, this sounds like another one. That is a pretty common sense. You should be doing this anyway. Yeah, irrespective of your this storage or not, of your credit of credit card data. In-kind yeah, big cognizant of who has access to that. Data in your in your office as well. Okay. Okay. Area right. And what machines it’s on? Yes. All right. All right. S o the number seven is restrict access to cardinal data by business. Need to know s o that just basically means that the people within your organization that have access to cardholder data is limited. And then it’s on ly the people that really need to know what that data is. Eso you just, you know, you want to have someone who’s, the authorized person to take care of of those transactions and that it isn’t open to just anyone, you know, accessing that information. And you really should just generally have a deny all setting for things like processing cards, denial, setting. What does that mean? It just means that that for the baseline, no one has access to it. But that there is, you know, one or there are one or two people that do so the default thie developed is no one touches him. And then we work up from there. Correct? Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this should be in the hands of you’re donor-centric gift processing department. Wherever that is, someone on the development team, right? But, you know, like the director of development and the vice president for institutional advancement, do they need to know credit card numbers? Not necessarily not know. Yeah, probono depending on the size of your organization. That’s true, that could be the gift processors. Yeah, director development could be the gift processor. It’s alright, but yet fair. Okay, let’s. Give joshua shot hyre let’s. See, i identify and authenticate access to system components. So it’s really important. Tio this hyre goes back in and ties in some of the other, the last two. You wantto uniquely hold everybody accountable for their actions. So the people who do have access, who are processing the cards, you have a system set in place where they have the checks and balances needed to hyre go through the crucial data and systems that can be traced back to them. So a lot of the love, the systems that that are in place, you can you contract who actually process that credit card to access that person’s record because just record in their dinner, we should be able to track treyz back all all transactions and viewings and things like that all right? Yeah. Okay. Is that standard in in aa cms zsystems? Absolutely. Yes. You just have to make sure, obviously, that when you set it up for your organization that you make sure that each person has their own unique logging. So, like, for example, some limes, it’s like admin doc development that’s not really going to be effective and tracking before people could be twelve people. Exactly. Disaster. If it’s more than one. The chicken finger point yet. So all right. You right. You have to have unique log. Yeah. E-giving each person their own unique identification. Okay, report. All right, go ahead. Who’s. Next restrict physical access to cardholder data, which is ah, tracy is a really good example of this. When she used to work for a nonprofit, she is really embarrassing. Way won’t name the non-profit, but she probably could tell the story better, but i attended this organization’s fund-raising ah, year before i started working for them. And they tried to kind of daisy chain a system together to be able teo capture credit card information. A check in it failed them on of that night and their internet dropped and they couldn’t collect card holder information to process card payments for purchases. Made it the event. So they walked around with donation cards and just had people hand right in all of their credit card information on these donations. Pompel pretty common practice, you know, non usual, however, start working for the organization years down the road. I’m going through some old files and what i find all of the donation forms with everyone’s. Credit card information from that event, which was three years previous was laying in an old just laying in an old file disaster. God, numbers, addresses everything. Expiration date, everything. Security codes. Exactly what you don’t want to have happen. So i you know her. I can attest that. You know, this kind of information needs to be out there in the nonprofit world. And organizations really should be considering following the pc. I guidelines. You should be just doing it. Yes. Okay. What a fine. Oh, my god. I got a chill. I don’t think it’s the air conditioning today afternoon, the air conditioning came on. I would say maybe was the air conditioning. But today is it’s not blasting? Yeah, that’s. That’s really is chilling it. Is what did you do? I immediately started all of it. Yes, absolutely. I think they had a burn party, fire bond fire departments to be on call. And what about now? Did you bring it to the attention of of management? They’re absolutely yes, yes, that changed their yes behavior. Yes, definitely. You know, a lot of things. A lot of things have changed since then. It was just, you know, it was an oversight on someone’s part along the way, and it just kind of got for gotten and in the shuffle. And, you know, it was just one of those things that happened, and you just have to it does have to, you know, really you don’t you want to minimize the risks of exposure to that kind of problem within your organization. Let’s, move on. Go ahead, joshua. You want to track and monitor all access to network resource is and that called cardholder data. So if it is, if you if you are storing the physical copies of the last four digits of the number with everything else blacked out or anything you want, teo have that restricted access in a locked filing cabinet with one person having the key and you want to know who has it as well? Okay, excellent locked access, one person, one person. Qi is pretty common sense. Pretty simple, but, uh, they’re easy to spell out and miss one of these. Yeah. Okay. Now what if that person ah, is sick for a day? You know, should narrow. Shouldn’t be some redundancy. Like we have multiple people who consign checks should there be a second key holder so that if a person is out for a day, we need to access that? Yeah. You know, we definitely encourage that you don’t want to give all of the keys to the kingdom toe one person. There shouldn’t be one individual person that’s accountable for all of that. That data and access to that data so definitely should be more than one person that that’s that’s managing. But they’re still has to be controlled, like, maybe have to sign in cracked, you know which, which is an honor system. Okay? Or or maybe now, don’t we use this to, um where this where this data is stored in this physical location, maybe there should be a camera focused on that spot. Just like we have cameras that focused on the desk where the cash gets counted. Right? Ok, so that would be a method of determining who’s been in there. Okay, go ahead. Um, did you just do ten? Ok, alright, eleven regularly test security systems and processes test. Okay, how do we do this? So, obviously you know what? You know when you wanna have a security policy in place, but if you don’t test it to make sure it’s goingto work it’s not going to work s so there could be a potential gap somewhere along the way that you missed on dh the only way they’re going to find out that it was mrs by testing. All right. So what are we testing? We’re pretending there was a brief if you have that camera set up, are you actually actively looking at the camera? Occasionally. Are you testing? Were you testing your checks and balances? Right? Orders the video get get re recorded over every twelve hours. Exactly north. Maybe. You know, maybe seventy two hours is okay. I don’t know how long it may be. Should be a week. I don’t know, but yeah, if it’s too. Short, the video is worthless. What else? What else? I mean, how do you how do you run these tests? What do you what? You’re testing s o i mean, you want to test all of your, you know, excuse me, all of your software components, those need to be tested on a regular basis on dh that i’m that your network is continuing to be secure, that you’re updating and changing passwords to be able to access your network on you know, this is a this is ah, one of the areas of the pc i that’s kind of it it’s definitely the most important because lots of people don’t conduct those scans. I’m but it’s frequently overlook. Okay, how many do we have left on? I was eleven or twelve. Alright, maintain a policy that addresses information security for all personnel. Gotta have a policy, right? Absolutely information. Security name just took off a couple of things and then we got to wrap up. That should be in your policy. Yeah. So you want to make sure that you have ah, usage policy for technology. So if you’re giving access to computers to your users, you want to make sure that, you know, you have things in place to ensure password security. So you want to have restrictions on what passwords can be? How many characters it has to be on let’s. Joshua would give the last word another tickle. Fight him on this number twelve. And this needs to be policy. Yeah. This needs to be incurred grunts with your privacy policy that that that you display with your donors as well like that, they know that you’re being good stewards of their data. Okay? Data as well as biographical and all the other demographic info that you have on them. Absolutely. Okay, we gotta wrap it up there. That’s ah, tracy lords, community marketing manager for greater giving. And joshua alan is an engineer. Solutions lucien’s engineer that’s also a greater e-giving. Okay, tracy. Joshua. Thank you very much. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntcdinosaur profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us next week. A new accounting rule that you need to know. Do not roll your eyes. We will make it interesting. I will. I guarantee it. This is going to be with the huge tomb who’s been on. The show before. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enable pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows. Social media is by the excellent susan chavez, and this cool music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. 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Nonprofit Radio for January 27, 2017: Successful Tech Projects & Inauguration Social Networks

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Smita Vadakekalam & Sandy Reinardy: Successful Tech Projects

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Up to 70% of technology projects fail. How do you manage tech change to avoid the fail? Smita Vadakekalam and Sandy Reinardy have the strategies to prepare, communicate and manage change in your project. Smita is at Heller Consulting and Sandy is with the University of Wisconsin Foundation. We talked at the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference.

 

 

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Amy Sample WardAmy Sample Ward returns to reveal what went on behind-the-scenes to make social networks buzz this month. She’s our social media contributor and CEO of NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network.

 

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week it’s caused you. They are a cr m platform causevox dot com and at causevox you, they blogged four fund-raising podcasts that can help non-profits of any size now, the other three were something about fund-raising authority and tiny, messy non-profit sparks like that, but for non-profit radio, they’re fourth in the in this block post said they said all encompassing, quote, if there were parts of the other three podcasts pod casts that appealed to you than twenty martignetti is non-profit radio may be perfect, perfect martignetti podcast has gained popularity and for good reason if you have a lot of time to listen, you’re in luck. Non-profit radio has hosted over three hundred episodes today is number three twenty four. By the way, like, thieves have ah, markham of specificity. Three, two, one for today. Touching on industry news, best practices and bright new ideas and quote thank you so much. Industry news. Um, yes. Check. Because last week’s review we have twenty sixteen forecast and the twenty seven. Twenty sixteen review on the twenty seventeen forecast who writes this copy? Look, i wrote twenty sixteen forecast i needed i need an intern so badly that was the news industry news best practices, of course, every guest shares best practices bright new ideas, we have ideas, let’s not get carried away break new, i don’t know, but we got good ideas cause you thank you so very much for including non-profit radio in this podcast roundup, congratulations on being our listeners of the week cause you oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with rubio. Sis, if i saw that you missed today’s show successful tech projects up to seventy percent of technology projects fail how do you manage tech change to avoid the fail smita ve arika column and sandy reinardy have the strategies to prepare, communicate and manage change in your projects. Smita is at heller consulting, and sandy is with the university of wisconsin foundation. We talked at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference and inauguration social networks. Any sample ward returns to reveal what went on behind the scenes to make social networks buzz this month plus will have ah couple of the topics inauguration related she’s our social media contributor and ceo of intend the non-profit technology network on tony steak, too. Empower your volunteers responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be e spelling dot com here are smita arika column and sandy reinardy from ntcdinosaur sixteen welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc that’s, the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference hosted by intend the non-profit technology network. This is also part of ntc conversations. We’re in san jose, california. Of course, in the convention center with me now are smita vatikay column and sandy reinardy, and their session topic is change workshop managing change to ensure a technology project’s success we’re gonna get to that very shortly. First latto highlight are on ten swag item and tc swag item of the of the for the interview you want each each session, this is a smartphone shortbread cookie from ray’s mohr. And then, of course, the obligatory napkin for wiping your hands and and your lips very gingerly, it says yea for those of you don’t have the benefit of the video and this was in our swag pile. Oh, that’s. All right. There it is. Okay, ladies. Um oh, let me give you a proper introduction. Smita is vice president of professional services at heller consulting and sandy is managing director for gift and constituent records at the university of wisconsin foundation. Welcome drinking. Thanks for having my pleasure. Thank you for indulging my swag swag moment. Should i presume, sandy, that you had a ah project. You’re a project manager on a project, a tte university, wisconsin foundation. Sort of. I came. I came in on the tail end rape as we went live doing a full implementation of a serum system website. General ledger, a portal for our campus users. Whole thing. And, uh, i came in about six weeks before we went live and have been working a lot on post project and reflecting on how ah, things maybe could have gone differently. And what’s thinks he did. Well, alright, some introspection. Okay, now. Oh, and, sweetie, you were involved in this project or with the university? Wisconsin or no, i wasn’t. It was not involved in that project, but actually, sandy. And i have worked together at heller for many years previously, and both of us were working with many clients and we would talk about this topic quite a bit, and i’ve kept in touch with sandy, and we would just sort of talk about lessons learned and what she’s experiencing at the university of wisconsin and the things i’m learning from the consulting perspective. So we just love this, you know, exchanging ideas about the topic. Have you done the workshop already? Yes. Okay. Went well, yes. Okay, i think now i read in your description that seventy percent of technology projects fail. What is that? When something fails, meet oyu there’s, our consultant on the panel with something fails? I mean, is that? Does that mean it just doesn’t work? That’s a great question in terms of what failure means, i’m going to take the generic definition of failure being it’s the project’s not meeting timeline, scope or budget and i wantto and any one of those and actually the part that i like to focus on it’s also not meeting employees, adoption or usage, which, really to me, is a key driving, you know, metric for success. So project users hated exactly yes face in thinking you don’t like. Ok, so you have ladies you have strategies for not well helping to minimize the likelihood, i guess i guess you probably can’t prevent it, but minimizing likelihood of project failure is that right? Yes. Ok, where should we start with sandy? Where should we start with this topic? We’re in the convention center and the hallway is noisy. So there’s, no food bins coming by or something you know, but not proper radio perseveres. We don’t care about your mere background noise. Meaningless. You’re very sophisticated audio system here. So you’re here just in the rumbling in the background. Okay, santa grecian rescue. We start with this topic. I think it start with the fact that it’s primarily in terms of change management, it is so people first on this and the because all of our organization’s air made up collectively of a bunch of people who find themselves in different personal positions with relation to change people that are i want to be quick to innovate, and they just you’ve got a lot of energy and they want to always be kind of moving to the next thing, all the way down to people who really would prefer just to more steadily and consistently improve on stuff that they have or and all the way across that kind of arc and organizations than can tend to take on their own profile based on the number of people in the nature of their leaders and things like that when it comes to change and so really understanding where individuals are and how that’s going to affect an impact as you go through a project like this, how you’re going to ensure strong adoption by meeting people where they are, and treating each of those people differently, and utilizing their their position with different aspects of the project because it was a lot in there. Let’s, let’s start unpacked. That’s fine overviews stage let’s. Try to unpack that bit when we’re in the women in the planning stage of ah of a project i’m guessing it’s important who’s in the who’s in the process from the beginning. Okay, metoo my my right. Absolutely. Okay, i think that way you should be in there. Yeah, one of things i like to think about a project and is to think about it, it’s like a campaign, you know, a sandy said, i project is it’s there’s a technology and there’s the people side of it, and if we just concentrate on the technology side of it, the people get left behind. And if you look at change, management is really about it’s the it’s, the methodology it’s the tools and processes to recognize there’s change in a technology project let’s, be proactive and manage it. And so, like you said in the planning part of the project, ideally you’re getting a head start in recognizing that this is what it is understanding who your stakeholders are in a sandy said, those stakeholders range from leadership, those seemed like the obvious stakeholders, and we’ll be business process users. But there’s, you have to really think holistically about your organization and think thoroughly about who is impacted by this change. And in the early start of it, i think it’s good to get buy-in from all of those groups and understanding where they are, sandy mentioned, let me let me just dive into that a little more, the groups you obviously can’t have all the users in in each office or team. Whatever’s going on whatever it’s called that are that are impacted by this, so there has to be a representative should that necessarily be a senior person within that team? Or is that not necessary? I don’t, so i think they’re i think there are different types of state groups and committees there’s definitely, for example, in a project it’s good to have, ah, way of of proving and making key decisions, you know, approval process, which sometimes you need the people who have that power and influence in the organization, but then there’s a equally as an influential and important group, which is your key users and those don’t necessarily have to be, you know, it doesn’t have to follow the organization’s hierarchy, it could be r really a power user or someone who’s going to really be impacted by this change, and they’re excited to work on this project, and they might be the best representative on that committee. So if yes, it’s really important to be deliberate and strategic about the people you choose, you know, in in in engaging them in this project was i’m guessing sandy if they’re not part of the process, but they’re going to be impacted by it, we’re going tow. We’re going to increase the likelihood of the bad adoption that we’re talking about. Exactly. And i think you really have to include people that are sort of on all sides of that rains. You need to have some of the resistors, some of the naysayers, so that you could understand what their concerns are and figure out how you’re going to strategize around that and and kind of take that holistic approach. Okay? Yeah. All right, so you want to have some of the difficult cases in your in your process, you’ll be happier even though even though there’s gonna be difficulty through the process and in the end, you’ll be happier that that they were part of it. Exactly. Okay, okay. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst. Metoo fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Where should we go next after we’ve assembled are our project team basically is what we’re called this group you’re ah, could project team yeah, and then you can get super depending on how big of a project is, you can get a simple as just a team versus many committees and big and infrastructures, but yes, essentially the key people who are going to be involved in this project what’s next? Yeah, i would say, you know, i like to think of the analogy of running it like a campaign. So think about naming the project thinking, aligning it, you know, explaining the why behind why we’re doing this? Actually, actually, if i had to say that’s probably the first step, okay? Because in order to get people engaged in order to get even, funding resource is to do this, we really it’s critical that were very clear about why we’re doing this project, and it should align very closely to the organization’s mission, and there should be a good business case that support set and ideally, you know, it’s clear enough so that everyone can get behind it and can just buy a few sentences, understand very quickly. Oh, this is why we’re doing this change. This is why this is so i think, it’s making sure that’s clear and understood by all parties and you’re nodding a lot, anything from the university wisconsin you won’t share at this point. Well, our project, we really had very outdated systems, and we were the environment that we were working and really changed in terms of the critical nous of the foundation as a fund-raising toe offset ah reductions in state funding and things like that. So it became very critical that we figure out how to advance our capacity to raise money. And while that was fairly clear, i think to most people there needed to be a lot of visioning for people to say, well, this is why in the big picture, what do i need to do in my own role if i raise money for this particular school or college? What are the things that i need to do to engage my constituents and to improve my capacity to work with them and have individual people really picking up on that vision on the why? Why should i do this? Not just why should we do? It as a whole. What does it mean and breaking it down into those specific things? Okay, okay. I can see how that’s going to contribute to end user buy-in exact and that the ultimate you know, we’re all our goal is great adoption and buy-in and exactly all right. All right. Uh, well, shall we go who’s got the next next idea after? Well, you know, you want to continue thinking about it like a campaign. Sure. Yeah. So we got, you know, in lining the vision mission and being clear on the why we’re doing it. Engaging the right people. Stakeholders. Being clear on what your communication plan is your strategy. So, like a campaign, you know what we communicate and what frequency to whom? Throughout the project from the start socializing concept. You know, before the project start socializing this idea with those various groups just so they get understand before it happens. What’s happening. Another idea, too, is once you start telling people about a big change, people immediately think about how is this going to be done? You know? And i think it’s important to build that knowledge up front, or at least show them a visual of, say, if it’s a technology project what that road map looks like at a very high level, show them different milestones, milestones, timetable. Yeah, that’s one way without getting into the nitty gritty. But generally, is this a two year thing? You know, in these, you know, first half of the year what happens generally, you know, because people have a lot of questions as much as you can in the beginning, too illustrate that will just ease people’s fears and anxieties. And also no. Oh, yeah, we have a plan for this. We’re not just diving into this without any knowledge and to set the appropriate expectations around it. Okay, okay, sandy, anything you want to add to that just in terms of the visuals, the before and after picture also something that shows them this is where we are now. This is what’s going on. And this is what it’s going to look like at the end. What their system, diagrams, process things, stuff like that. Okay, to the extent we know from things going change without without qualification. But here’s, the better world vision that we have for you. Exactly. Better vision we have. For your world. All right, all right. Uh, okay. So as we’re moving along now, was there. Sandy was there consulting assistance in the project management at the university? Wisconsin. There was way worked with our vendor with blackbaud on the project that did the implementation. Ahs well, as had external project management involved to help shepherd things through and keep a focus. We’re a fairly large organisation and had were able to fortunately dedicate a fair number of staff some full time on the project and budget, accordingly, to put those resources toward in the investment in the time which was right. Okay, what kind of thing this is? Maybe this should be a question for the end, but i’m too anxious to hear what kinds of things that sandy you came in six weeks before implementation. So you kayman thes e stage. Yeah, well, maybe not, but you didn’t come in. You missed. You missed the blood and gore, maybe i don’t know. Right? So what kinds of things were the people in your your team, the records gift, inconsiderate records. What were they saying about the process that you missed? Right? Well, we had a really interesting situation on my team, which is within my department. I’ve got three teams, and one of them are constituent. Records. Area had really excelled throughout the project, in the planning, in testing and definite, identifying their requirements in vetting the solutions and really working things through and spending a lot of time doing that on the gift processing side. For a whole number of reasons, they were less ready, and there was some some significant change resistance that that had gone on way too long and on, and also just capacity. There was not as much time able to be dedicated from that team. And so that’s been a very different thing that we’re we’ve had to do a lot of making up for that after we’re live, which has been a significant challenge in that area, and i went to go live. Thiss was in august two thousand fourteen, so almost, yeah, okay. All right, so one team didn’t really come along as well as give processing, right? Didn’t come along as well as the others. Okay, sametz all right, so what’s ahh let’s. See what’s next. What other strategies for helping ensure success? Anybody? Sure, i think one one thing that is important is if you’re still in the planning phase. Ideally, you are really assessing the abilities you have in house or the resource is you have to do this project project? Yes, whether you need to be realistic about what you need help exactly. So it could range from budgeting obviously being really stick about that, but also your team. So thinking about from the leadership level even do the leaders have a very specific role to play on the project to the understand what that role is to they need coaching our support. Teo, help them what’s the leadership role in this real leadership programs are now weak leadership leadership of the project team or leadership of the organization. The organization? Yeah, what’s the role of the ceo, executive director, maybe even the board and i don’t know if the board is wrong. Let’s talk about these, so i’ll talk about the ceo maybe sandy has an example, but the board, university wisconsin but at least the ceo because ideally, you’ve already articulated the case of why this is important, why does it aligned with the organization’s mission ceo or someone of, you know, executive director, executive director? Sure, they should be visible and just be kind of, you know, your cheerleader about why this is important, because throughout the course of the project, it’s going to take people’s time, it’s going to be challenging it’s just not going to be a lot of fun. Many touchpoint saying it is a task being added to evaluate wireframes and processes and after test and, you know, i have a job to do too exact looking this on top, all right? So the somebody leaders tryto help us stay on mission on mission, right on goal are mission focused? Yeah, and i think it’s just being vocal and articulating and being there and have a presence of why this is important, that this still this is the reason why we’re doing this it’s lying to the organization’s mission, and then i think that just it doesn’t feel like this is just a project thrown onto this particular department or group, and they’re on their own. But there is support from the organization as a whole that we’re all behind this. We all support this. This is important. And the organization’s i’ve worked with as a consultant that have had strong leadership, who have done that job have been more successful. Ok? And so sandy is there something board hated you? Well, maybe. And maybe not even just at the wisconsin but general engine, the board’s roll. And then if you want to and if there’s a wisconsin story, we love stories. Sure. Well, i will use their story just because i think that we were we had excellent leadership in this regard. From both our ceo president and from our board. They were highly committed from the start. Our our president had been there. This was a major initiative for him and he’s been there for five years now. So this is fairly early. The implementation was about a three year project on dso. He recognised where things needed to shift in the organization and really was pivotal in making that happen. Some of the specifics he did throughout the project is it became a regular part of his communication when you talk about a campaign every week posts that go out on our internet from him with updates for things, there was regularly a section about what was going on in the project in trying to keep people aware of what was going and constant positive, a reminder of why we were doing it and what the vision would be. In addition, our board has technology committee that received regular reports and asked excellent questions along the way they were engaged, and they still are, you know, that they still are interested in seeing the metrics and seeing things and what’s what’s happening on the adoption side at every quarterly board meeting, our ceo does a presentation and an update on adoption and utilization in various things as the outcomes that have come along, which i think is is excellent, so they’re asking for those metrics and wanting to see them is one of the best ways to, i think guarantee adoption is that if somebody at the highest levels is looking at the reporting in metrics and outcomes of what year bilich the of what you’re trying to achieve? So not just adoption for adoption sake, but when you embed those into these air, huh? Hyre measuring our performance in our effectiveness if they’re not looking at that than nobody’s going to wanna, you know, going care to adopt it. So, you know, so that’s going really well, i’m sorry. Did you say the board had a technology committee? They do. They was that for the purposes of this project or there had always been a technology committee. I’m not actually sure how long it’s been in place, but it’s an ongoing it’s a permanent okay, that’s a committee i’ve never heard of. Technology committee looks at the use of tech throughout the brothers, the foundation, right information and tech. Okay, excellent. All right for interest. What else? One of the strategies do we have as we either of you move along our project project process, we got one thing that i would say is when it comes to change resistance and and this is a little bit, you know, maybe idealistic, but the more comfortable that in organization khun b and that the leaders khun b with the idea that you’re going to lose people but some people are not going to be on board with a change in direction and that’s okay, and people mean they leave the organization organization and maybe that’s not going to fit for them and that’s that’s a tough thing. But if you’re really looking out for what’s best for them and what’s best for you, you work you want to see this is why visioning, how their lives are going to be different is really important and what these benefits are so that people can evaluate it. Am i able to really put into this and my ableto continue to be committed to my job? Do eh? Is success in this how it what i view as personal success, and if those answers are no, then maybe you could be supportive and helping them figure out their next step, and because it doesn’t help to have people, of course, and they’re going to hold it down and they’re gonna hold it back and they’re never going to be satisfied. They should. They should leave. That seems really extreme to me. Does that happen? Often? People leave. Do you know if it happened to us was constant? I don’t want to do. I don’t want a new computer system that have to work with, so i’m gonna leave absolutely it having fun. I think almost all of the implementation projects we’ve done you’ve got coming to do. They tend to be people who aren’t very tech savvy. Maybe they’re older. What kind of people do this? I know this is so alien to me. Yeah, maybe i’m narrow minded. I don’t, but i mean it’s, just a new computer system, and i understand it’s going to impact your your your work every, you know, eight to five or, you know, whatever you’re our lever, however lengthy a day you have, i understand it’s gonna be a big change, but quitting a job over it? Well, i think it depends on where people are at in their career to, you know, some people, certainly, if you are, i can completely understand being at a certain point in your career where, like, you know, i did this fifteen years ago were ten and i’m just i’m done, you know, like i’m i don’t have the energy to do this again, learning something new, you can take a long time and khun b really, i know i personally if i have to get a new laptop, i i hate it because i know even as even though i know it’s going to be a week maybe where i’m like getting reoriented and everything still dread having to do it. And so when you’re using a major system and you’re changing the actual way that you’re working, that’s, it’s really exhausting, and so i can i can see where some people, if they’ve been through it before, and they really know what it’s going to take would say, i’m just not up for this right now. Interesting speech. Do you see this? You definitely i mean, i think the sandy brought up a great example. Sometimes it is the organization it’s the time they maybe this person hasn’t been reforming necessary that well. And then when it comes to a technology project everything’s going to change and it’s their opportunity to make sure they have the right team in place because it’s going to be a lot of work. So i’ve seen sometimes decisions about staffing being made once the project starts that’s, the organization leadership bilich making that for the first direct manager, okay, and at the same time, there are some people who just disagree with that decision. And because if they’re usually going to a new system, it might be a completely different platform, totally different set of skillsets and training that they needed a lot of investment for that person and for the organization. So they may decide that this is not where the direction they want to go in and okay, you have to be prepared for this. Yes. Ok. And so and it’s? Not necessarily it’s. Painful in that it’s. Not easy, that side of it, but sometimes that’s for the best of the organization, for that individual and for the project. Okay, wei have just a couple of minutes left now, sandy, you already alluded to pretty well, i mean, like, what we should be measuring in terms of are our outcomes on dh, how we’re going to measure success on this. Anything more that you want to say or that smith so that you want to add about evaluating success? Oh, yeah. That’s a big, big topic. Yeah, i what? What? I will say that it doesn’t happen enough. And i do think that it is important from the start to set out what your success metrics are for the project and because otherwise you decided the outset. Yeah, okay, because it’s otherwise, there’s no way you can meet, you know, every something’s going to give, you know, so just being clear, what are those most important metrics? And actually, sandy had a really interesting thought she brought up in the workshop about being realistic about in the context of a project. Do you have the same goals for your organization? You know, in terms of goals, um, set of activities like are you expecting when you’re going through this technology change to have the same outputs, to have the same fund-raising goals like it might? Maybe you could elaborate on that for sure. I think so. Hopefully when you’re implementing a new tool, it’s, because you’re looking to measure something, you’re looking to change something in the way that you work and how how effective you are doing your work so inherently in that hopefully the tool, whatever reporting or whatever kind of metrics are part of the tool itself, are reflective of that that you’re establishing those in such a way that this is what we’re looking to measure in order to inform further changes in strategy or whatever it might be. How well is this fund-raising initiative working in performance compared to this one? And so inherently in those tools? By capturing that data, you’re seeing adoption and it’s a cycle at that point. So the reporting on the outcomes is helping to inform how do you change your strategy, which you, in turn, use the tools to measure again and to kind of go around so it’s a little bit, but self fulfilling in that way, in terms of success measurements, the one other well, can you make you want to make a brief point? That’s? Ok, that’s ok. All right. We gotta wrap it up chanpreet leave it there. Thank you very much, ladies. Thank you. Sweet about a cake alarm. Vice president of professional services at heller consulting and sandy reinardy, managing director. Gift and constituent records at the university of wisconsin foundation again, ladies. Thank you. Thanks very much for sharing. Thank you. Thank you. And sandy. Especially from the university. Wisconsin. You know, sometimes it’s. Hard to share introspection. Thank you for doing that. Thank you. Thank you for being with us, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc non-profit technology conference, thanks so much. Inauguration social networks with amy sample ward is coming up first pursuant, their latest white paper is overcoming the major donor dilemma. The dilemma is the possible gap between data and activity. If your data doesn’t help you decide what to do, which course to take, then it’s not valuable? Yeah, time not well spent collecting it. That is the dilemma, and i actually might call it a paradox that they were this is what they wrestled with and their advice for howto bridge this gap is in the paper, it follows the life cycle of your major donor relationships, identification, engagement and cultivation it’s very much worth reading. Overcoming the major donor dilemma you’ll find it at pursuing dot com click resource is and then content papers we’ll be spelling they’ve got a new video up from the night that they raised a hundred ten thousand dollars for help for children spelling bees for fund-raising there is one hundred ten thousand dollars in a spelling bee because they include live music and dancing and stand up comedy it’s all in the video. They know what they’re doing around today’s. Um, spelling bees, not your grandmother’s spelling these. Check out the video it’s at wi be e spelling dot com now, tony’s, take two. My new video is from inauguration weekend. I was there in d c a met a volunteer collecting metrocards for martha’s table. They strengthened children, families and communities in dc jan’s story as i got to know her is a lesson on empowering your volunteers toe act on your behalf. My video with jan is that twenty martignetti dot com and it’s, the last one with luscious eleven inch hair for a long, long time last one for no other reason you got to check that out. That is tony’s take two. You better do the live listener love because amy’s ample warden, i have a lot to talk about, so let’s get the live love out there. Let’s go abroad. I mean somebody people abroad. I mean, i can’t believe asia always checking in korea multiple south korea, anya haserot comes a ham nida uh, the uk multiple. We can’t see the cities, but we know that you’re with us somewhere in the u k one of those one of the three countries china is with us new year, chinese new year. I can’t say that in chinese can neither cantonese nor mandarin. Can i speak? However, i can say ni hao and enjoy the new year tonight. Most right now. That’s. Twelve hours later is tomorrow night. Is it? Tonight is tomorrow night. Okay. Tomorrow night, because twelve hours earlier. Still tomorrow night. Happy new year. Glad we got that straightened out. Germany, germany is with us. Goodson housing in germany and guten dog. I wish you ah alvarado obregon, mexico. Buenas tarde days. Brazil is with us. Sao paulo, brazil is with us over the gado. Unbelievable. Thea foreign influence non-profit radio let’s. Bring it back. Domestic multiple new york city. I love that when new york new york checks in multiple times. Thank you. Jersey city, new jersey. Right across birthplace of my father in greenville hospital. Used to live on mcadoo. Have jersey city probably different part of the city and from where you are, you’re listening. I would bet. But that’s where he was born. New bern, north carolina is with us. Live love. Always going out to new bern. Woodbridge, new jersey, tampa, florida, houston, texas live listener love to you what comes next? We know it’s the podcast pleasantries over twelve thousand now podcast listeners ten thousand for sure old number over twelve thousand podcast listeners thank you pleasantries to you. Thanks for being with us and the affiliate affections to our am and fm stations throughout the country. Thank you for listening on your station. Whichever day, whatever part of the week that you’re, the station fits us into the schedule. Affections to our affiliate listeners. Amy sample ward. I’m very glad when she’s on glad to bring her back. She’s, our social media contributor and the ceo of intend the non-profit technology network. Her most recent car third book is social change any time everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s that amy sample ward dot or ge and at amy rs ward welcome back, amy. Hi. Thanks for having me back. Happy twenty seventeen, twenty, seventeen. We haven’t chatted that’s. Right. Happy to you. Thank you very much. I note that oren luis is going to be nine months in two days. Do i have that cereal? I believe the twenty ninth is his ninth month. Isn’t that? Right, i remember. I remember, uh, happy, happy nine, happy nine, teo xero another quarter, he will have been a year. I know it just goes by so fast, goodness gracious. Andi, in the meantime, well, a little after that. Ah, but before his first birthday, you have a little conference coming up seventeen ntc we do a small gathering gathering thousand twenty five hundred some like that a little chat, little chat group, community group until i like that. A little chat group of twenty five hundred people go oh, it’s a tight community. You’re going to be the warden in park marriott march twenty third, twenty fifth what can we expect? Well, um first it will be it really will be a packed house were on track to sell out in advance. So if folks are listening and are interested, be sure you register soon, but we are gonna have, you know, obviously by selling out the largest in-kind attendance so that we’ve had before. And that means we’re trying to have the most content that we’ve had. I think they’ll be eighteen concurrent sessions, so tons, tons of speakers, lots of great content and three days full, just like we have in the past on dh will be in d c so i imagine that inevitably there will be a folk using their attendance at the conference is an opportunity, tio go just a mile or so down the street, teo the large white buildings to connect it with some of their representatives and be a part of all all the different conversations that are happening now, too, which i think is exciting that that folks can come to the conference, talk about and learn about all different ways to use technology and their work to support their their organizations, and then maybe also get to be in the seat of our democracy and go connect with their representatives. Indeed, is there any part of the of the conference schedule? That’s ah around organized, so we don’t have a formal advocacy day or anything at the heart of the conference, but if folks are interested and support, we’re happy to help them make a plan for that, but we don’t have ah, because the conference really covers organizations of every different topic and mission and geography, etcetera. We don’t formalize an advocacy day in that way, but like i said, folks, they’re interested and need more resource is there aren’t sure how they would go about connecting with their representatives were happy. Teo, help them all the info is that in ten dot or ge? I believe there’s, we’re in the mid tier pricing now like the early bird is gone now aren’t regular and then comes late, but regular has another couple weeks, doesn’t i don’t yet regular is still open and it may be that we don’t even get toe late registration because we are like i said on track to sell out early. So be sure that you register now also, so that no matter what you do, get the regular rate and you don’t have to pay the late hyre rate yes or risk being blocked out completely and then exactly super disappointed, alright and ten dot or ge, it is an excellent conference all about using technology it’s more smartly, more efficiently to help you focus more time on delivering programs and services. So it’s not just for geeks by any means. I understand what people saying when i interview the man it’s tze for everybody who uses technology, and unless you’re still using index cards and pay a long paper sheets, then you’re using technology, so it is an excellent conference highly recommend seventeen ntc and ten dot org’s check that out. Um, okay, let’s, look at some post inauguration or around the inauguration social networks. You you do some research on the march? Yeah, what you have what you find out, what did you find out? They’re well, so a couple things to talk about. So i think there’s plenty that we could talk about as far as the march that happened last saturday. The women’s march, but just one. But if you are listening live to non-profit radio, which you should right now in dc live is another march happening called the march for life, which is maybe some overlap between those communities, but probably very different communities marching about a week apart and very kind of looking, comparing and contrasting that, too is interesting because there are some things that, you know, tony, you and i have talked about before best practices for engaging your community, calling people to action, things like that, that both marches really did well. And then there are some things that are very different in their approach. So first, kind of looking at the organization of it all. You know, one thing that we’ve talked about in the past, probably multiple times, is that you don’t just want something to exist in one channel he wanted to be able teo be found content wise, schematically wise, everything across different channels and i think bull marches, you know, there’s a website where the domain of the website is the same saying that you’re using the hashtag, which is really helpful for people who maybe don’t know what to look for if they see the hashtag and then the domain of of the website related to that march is the exact same words that is super helpful for making sure they know they’re in the right place on both have that going, though i am not able to go to the march for life website unless i go teo kind of a sub page from a knitter net search results, so i don’t know if their main domain is just got so much traffic that it’s down or what’s happening, but i thought that was an interesting note on that their their website maybe isn’t quite er up to speed there, and then, you know, another kind of and that’s something we’ve talked about before trying to remember when we would have talked about this, but you know, there’s there’s, the role of hash tags in in a campaign in organizing people across different geography is and, you know, i just said the two hash tags that were used were women’s march and march for life, but then there’s also inevitably other hashtags that people start using in association with those events. So then you start to see tweets that have, you know, two or three hashtags, and and it kind of creates, like a niche community within that that larger world and one that i have noticed, justin trying teo kind of pay close attention and analyze the two experiences from last saturday and then the march today is the use of the hash tag, why i march versus why we mark and there were, you know, lots of, um, signs and videos and pictures and, you know, content compilations from last saturday’s, women’s march, where people were trying teo share their story and i think also document maybe the diversity of issues that people were bringing to that march experience with the hashtag why i march and in i think, uh, a crowd setting where there’s millions of people having on opportunity to feel like you’re telling your story, there’s, there is a unique voice that you’re adding to that because sea of people can be really empowering. And i found it interesting that today there’s a number of folks within the march for life world using the hashtag why we march, which certainly you can make the cases, is a unifying message. But i think also loses a bit of that opportunity for it to feel like anyone is that’s, anyone’s, individual story and more than that, um, you know, maybe talking points or thoughts, or kind of larger ideas versus their own experience. That that was an interesting observation on dh may be lost opportunity, right? Feeling like it came from someplace central versus personal personal experience. All right, and we’ve got to wait for a break. Hold all those thoughts, let’s, keep talking, excellent. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guess directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. If you have big dreams in a small budget tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio, i d’oh. I’m adam braun, founder of pencils of promise. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Amy let’s, let’s keep comparing and contrasting these really interesting. The women’s march and the march for life going on today i love it. So the next big area and you know this is like the most important things for me when it comes teo technology. And that is how how do we use these tools to organize people? To call them to action and to have that action will be kind of either or offline, and towards riel impact, right? That that idea that social media is just kind of collectivism and no one’s really doing anything is going to be a self fulfilling prophecy. If all you ever ask people to do is click on things, right? So one thing that i was paying attention to, of course, since that is my my area of passion, is how both of the kind of organizer’s behind the marches focused on that. And of course, that means what are they doing ahead of time? How are they planning that? How are they getting consistent messages out, etcetera? And one thing that i was very surprised about is that with the women’s march, there were, of course, you know, not everyone can go to d c so there were marches all across the u s and actually even internationally. And they were all organized to happen on the same day, so that your amplifying that experience it feels like a shared experience, regardless of where you may be participating. You know, everyone in all those different cities is using the same hash tag, etcetera. But with the march for life there are also some some local marches happening in various cities, and they are not all on the same day, they’re kind of scheduled on various days come across a two week spread which i thought that’s again. A huge missed opportunity when it comes to creating that shared experience that people are all kind of in support of and and sharing this message that they would happen on all different days just feels disconnected. What do you mean? Ok, i mean, smart people put these things together, what’s the what’s, the other side of that. Why might they just to extend the time of the messaging and the conscience consciousness? Really think you could argue that it is? Extending the time that also it’s enabling, you know, local organizer teo time the march with maybe other actions or speeches or things that are otherwise happening locally at a different time, i think another reasoning that i’ve heard in general when it comes to more distributed timings like this is that way people have kind of their own day locally, but then everyone’s paying attention to the central event. But i still you know, if i was in charge, that wouldn’t be my strategic think the shared experience stronger. Okay, right you wanted to buy the same day same hashtag we feel the feel the joy and the passion across the world all over the same six hours. Yes, exactly. On dh then the last piece that i wanted to kind of compare and contrast that i thought was really interesting is so so what are they doing to drive folks toe action, right? Like the march is one action but that’s not going to be what changes the hearts and minds of politicians, local and national. You know, etcetera. So? So what? What are the other actions? And because the march for life is happening right now, i noticed and took a quick screen grab that in their live stream they have been flashing up. Ah, tex call so you would, you know, text ah word, teo, a certain short code on dh the word that you’re supposed to texas march for life, but i’ve noticed that had changed for two the number for which i think is very confusing because then your hashtag is spelling out fo r so there’s, i think a quick place where people are going to get hung up, but that’s, what you’re texting into is basically prompt tio notify your congress people that you are pro life. Yeah, so that felt like a very narrow channel to me. Andi in the march for women right away with with all the energy from marches all across the world, they have used the same website to create a centralized action process that they’re calling ten, ten actions in one hundred days. So every ten days, there’s a new action that they’re kind of owning and pushing out from that central march website that, you know, everyone was already going to. And if you look on the march for life website, they also have an action center and at resource is etcetera, but the actions are all outdated. The very top one references ah mother’s day campaign so, again, you knew the march was coming right? It feels like a riel missed opportunity to align that energy with action. And i think the march for women organizer’s have had a very strategic eye on riel action and forward momentum from the beginning. And you can see that in the way that they’ve set up some of those. Come on, you know, both the online content in-kind of the process for getting people to move forward. Okay, wey have to leave that topic there. That’s excellent. Comparing count contrasting. Thank you very much. Way just that we have about a minute left and i wanted to get to something that that you noticed about president trump tweeting from treating from his personal account versus the at potus twitter yes, i find it so i mean, you know, i think there’s going to be a lot of opportunities where we say i have nothing to compare this to and this is surprising. But i have, you know, no idea what to expect anymore. But this is certainly one of those situations, i find it so surprising, i guess, is the word that our president trump continues to use his personal, you know, longstanding twitter account at real donald trump to tweet things out all day long, and that the official potus twitter account is just a stream of retweets of his own personal account at what i think feels very strange on dh. I think what i mean by strangers is a reflection on the voice on the message. You know that our official presidential twitter account is a is a retweet, makes it feel and is reinforcing this feeling that president trump is separated from from that role. If he’s tweeting as himself and the quote unquote, the president is retweeting it, that just reinforces to me a very strange separation. I understand, okay, thank you. We gotta leave it there. Amy sample ward. You’ll find her on twitter at amy rs ward and again, check out seventeen ntcdinosaur provoc technology conference at in ten dot or ge. Thank you, amy. Next week, grow your sustainers revenue and protect your donor’s data both from the non-profit technology conference last year. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. And by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director. And we have to say goodbye to him because he got promoted to station manager at que tiene que carbondale colorado. He’s been outstanding. He got us off the ground with the affiliate stations. I’m gonna miss working with him. This is what happens. The best people move on and they move up and it’s. Gratifying and disappointing at the same time. So i i need to hire more lackluster people. I think that’s the lesson. More, more mediocre. Sze, um congratulations, gavin que tiene que better be our next affiliate station. Start the music, please, sam. Congratulations, gavin. And lots of good wishes to you. The show’s social media is by susan. Chavez. Our music is by scots. Dine with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and greet. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe, add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s, why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge. Somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.