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Nonprofit Radio for July 13, 2018: IT/C-Suite Crosstalk & Capacity Call Out

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Joshua Peskay & Robin Jenkins: IT/C-Suite Crosstalk
How do we improve the relationship between IT and management? Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference is Joshua Peskay at RoundTable Technology and Robin Jenkins with The Hope Program.

 

 

Steve Heye: Capacity Call Out
“Capacity” means nothing until we unlock what kind. Technical? Managerial? Fundraising? Board? Steve Heye with NetSuite encourages introspection and shares assessment tools and models. (Also recorded at the Nonprofit Technology Conference)

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of fei bro dysplasia, pacific cans progressive. If you exhibited the tendency to miss today’s show i t c suite cross talk how do we improve the relationship between it and management? Our panel from the non-profit technology conference is joshua peskay, eh? At round table technology and robin jenkins with the hope program and capacity call out capacity means nothing until we unlock what kind technical managerial fund-raising board steve, hi with nets sweet encourages introspection and shares assessment tools and models that’s also recorded at the non-profit technology conference on tony steak, too. A big lump of thanks, responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner, cps dot com and by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tello’s here are joshua peskay, eh and robin jenkins. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ninety sea it’s a non-profit. Technology conference in new orleans were at the convention center, and this kicks off day three of our coverage coverage, cracking like a fourteen year old. This interview is sponsored by network for good, not by the penguins. It’s actually sponsored by network for good, easy to use dorner management and fund-raising software for non-profits i’m joined by penguin one joshua peskay eh? And robin jenkins and robin also robin’s show your penguin for those who are not do not have the privilege of the video. Robin and joshua both have blow up penguins, probably three feet tall. Blackfeet black beak andi joshua, who were these courtesy is a courtesy of soap box engaged. They have a booth entirely filled with these giant inflatable penguins and have been doing that for the last ten years started when there was a lennox day preceding the conference that they brought the penguins for. Okay, so the penguins are not gonna be able to join us. We do have enough head sametz easy, joshua put it, had you on his? Yeah, we’re goingto neo-sage you’re putting the heck out of my head, said it’s, all stretched out now i think i have a fat head amy could take that for you. Thank you, amy. I don’t know. Wait. I would just leave this here. Okay. Uh, penguin madness on the third day of the and thank you to woobox who’s it’s a fox and gabe woobox neo-sage thank you very much for that. Nice folks. Joshua peskay a is vice president of round table technology. And robin jenkins is chief financial and operating officer at the hope program. And your seminar topic is unmet. Expectations and intervention between tea and non-profit leadership. Is that correct? That’s, correct way. Yesterday waited another session yesterday. All right, strategic tech planning. Yeah. Now you’re complicating my problems are today. We’re talking about bringing penguins i t and management together. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Can d’oh? Well, we did mostly multi task. You can’t wait to be single. Single focus. All right. Like direct mail. The best direct mail, you know, single single purpose. Yes. That’s. What non-profit radio? Okay, so, let’s, start with you, robin. What what’s the problem between management and why? Why? Why do we need this session? Well, sometimes they can’t talk past each other with different languages on dso, making sure that we can converse and a common language helps us to get to our end goals? Yeah, and joshua what’s the implication if we’re talking across each other well, i think that technology people in particular are guilty of not thinking of communications as a really critical part of their job and one main component sessions to be here. It is, yeah, it is an absolutely critical part of their job. And when they fail to communicate effectively, two executives about technology than the organization’s needs are ultimately unmet. That’s the unmet expectation in the title. Okay, so, robin, i understand. So, robin, you’re the you’re the leader in the leadership, a strata of this organisation, correct. And joshua was the vice president of technology. And what technology and technology strategy. Okay, tech guy robbins, the leadership. So he’s, actually, our vendor. So we actually a chance to practice in real time. Okay? Workflows kayman okay. You work together? Yeah. Let’s. See, you mentioned something. Well, now we’ll get to that about offers of children and skills. We’ll get to that. How do we how do we start? All right. Everybody needs to come to the center, you know, in a common language, right? I mean, he’s got their technical language. They tend to be very graphical. Maybe leadership, maybe not so much interested in the graphics. Is that? Is that a part of it? Okay, well, i was gonna say in the session were actually encouraging people there’s, there’s something in marketing that’s called a buyer persona where a market are actually develops an overall picture of the person that they’re attempting to sell. Tio what are they looking, what they read, what they listen exactly, you’re familiar with that, so we’re persona donorsearch dona we’re we’re giving them a template to develop an executive persona and encouraging people to actually create one. And then look at that when they’re thinking about communicating with executives around important strategic technology initiatives right now. But is it only the tech people who have toe come to leadership? Shouldn’t leadership be coming coming now? I was coming down. That’s not right, but coming, yeah. Reaching across the aisle wuebben their circle toward the circle that common space is that a common elliptical between the two circles? Yes, it’s. Not all on it. So, that’s, how i take my role is being able to straddle. Both groups and making sure that leadership is held accountable for how they communicate and what they need. Okay, so they are accountable as well. So should we start with our leadership persona? Is that is that a good place to can we develop together? Way could yeah. E-giving visual on someone you get included in the thing. Okay. Could be a link to it or were shooting video. We can. You don’t have. We don’t have a visual with you. I have it on my phone. But abila small. Okay? Yeah. If you had something penguin size, i do not have anything coincides and for just a small persona, but it’s a big personality. Okay, so how do we start now? The persona is different for every organization i write. I mean, for every person in every way. But we’re trying to reach to the c suite. Exactly. Or for the people who spend the money, you could okay. Who could be sponsors? Could be champions. Okay. Yeah. In a small organ might only be the executive director. Correct. We’re talking a lot of mean were there are twelve thousand listeners are small and midsize. Shop some of the marrow, you know, two or three people, right? So it may be a fundraiser. Executive director on dh, you know, maybe a marketing person. Morning communications. All right. I think these skills, though, in this workshop are are incredibly useful for anyone’s who’s communicating with someone who has a different perspective from themselves, which is essentially everybody all right. Because that’s really not more complicated, the fact that their executives is just part of the session title ultimately it’s about how do i who has one perspective communicate effectively with someone else who has a different perspective about a common need that we have but don’t think we have. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. So, it’s not only i t and management let’s. See? Amy, you have those, okay? The penguins are local. We’re going to call on them. Right? I told you this is this’s improvised penguins, by the way. Incredibly effective communicators. I mean, it zoho their way. They have to find each other right in a sea of penguins. Where are they? All look the same. What? Find each other? Oh, yeah. Find individual penguin you’ve never seen like march of the penguins. That thing with the guy? You know that the female penguin comes back with the fish he’s gotta find like her killed turner in, like, a million penguins. That all look the same. Like, how do you do that? We’re gonna call doing through communication. They have a unique calls that are very, you know, very effective. Why don’t we just create a penguin persona? Oh, yeah. It’s got the alliteration like a really big fan of fish cold weather extremes lighting on belly bilich magazine reader subscriber like water parks love the slides in water polo yeah, okay, all right. Let’s, let’s stick with our likes, polar bears. You know, you know, sharks are just starting with joshua peskay non-profit radio, so watch it or i’m shutting our eyes. They put the penguin in your seat and you’re out. Penguin talks a lot less than you do on robin and i will continue all right. It’s time for a break pursuant. Their newest paper is the digital donation revolution. You’re online donors have high expectations of you because of the swift transactions that they could do it amazon, zappos and other fine retailers that have easy user experiences the digital giving bar has been raised how do you get over it? Get the digital donation revolution the latest it’s on the listener landing page. Tony dahna em a slash pursuing to radio now back to it. See sweet cross talk. Okay, let’s, build our see sweet persona. How do we how do we start with this? So if i think of actual examples in my own organization, so i have a staff member who was very open and eager for change change but doesn’t always understand how that can impact their lives. So i have to make the tool that we’re thinking about implementing real to this person. How will it change? So i asked them questions. What do you do? And what would this have with this tool? Improve your work efficiency, your understanding, communicating with others, getting things done quickly worked quickly. So that’s how i begin to approach it. Okay on dh who is it? That’s asking these questions? Eso i’m asking the questions of the staff person of the person no more of this just not even someone who has either. Is aversa rights he or someone who doesn’t have much experience with it? Ok, ok, so we’re going a little broader than just okay. Okay, good. By the way, the penguin is also better dressed in you. The color blue is not becoming skin like pencil radio. Howard stern was nicer way sometime. Okay? And then what do we do with the answers to these questions? Right? So then i translate them to round table or two. Joshua i say this is the thieves or the people that i have. Then how can we make sure that we can communicate our pitch the proposal properly in the way that they can understand it and approve it? I mean, in the end goal, my goal is to get it approved. So how do i get to that place? Okay, joshua. And then what are you doing with this information that robin’s giving you? I’m really helping to make sure that we’re understanding not on ly what problems the organization has, but what challenges the executives have that we need to understand and communicate about how we’re going to overcome a lot of executives may be pressed by either they are intimidated by the technology that that might be changing, and they might not want to talk about that with other staff, but that could be a block for them or they have other pressing priorities that aren’t technology related and don’t think this is really worth their time, so if if we need their time and we need their buy-in what? Usually we d’oh understanding their challenger, okay, is critical something? I heard it in an interview i did yesterday duitz seems related come to me with a solution, not a problem. So you’re you’re suggesting not not just coming to the leadership in the decision makers with what the issue is, but with technology solution, but that also includes recognizing their needs and what their challenges are not just the challenge that you’ve identified, i’ll put it really succinctly, i shouldn’t come, teo, if you’re the executive, tony, i shouldn’t go, and i’m the me and robin like that like that i should like asking you for the problem. You’re the one who tells me the problems we say, oh, great here’s a way that we think we can solve that, then you say here’s some challenges that i have with that, like, oh, if i have to learn a new piece of software, i’m not sure that i’m ready to do that? We say, oh, here’s, that we can help you overcome that challenge so that we can solve this problem for you. Okay, if i don’t know those things and i don’t ask, you’re not you’re not querying the leadership. You don’t know what the troubles are, so i can build on that a little bit with a specific example. So my executive director, she has a really special quality of asking a lot of questions. That’s what i’ve learned is, if i can think through what she’s going to ask and what she’s going to need it, i can get it down to two questions based on our conversations, and i know i have i’ve solved a lot of her problems if i come out she’s still asking questions, and i haven’t predicted and i don’t know very well what her what her issues. Okay, so you’re you’re you’re you’re putting a thought into your that’s, right? You’re whatever weekly meetings are your proposal, executive directors were proposal. Okay? Yeah. Okay. How do we move this persona along? I feel like i feel like we haven’t developed this person yet. Yeah, well, i could get you. More specifics of the persona when you’re breaking it out, your whoever your person is right, you’re kind of saying here’s a little bit about them. So this is the one we have in this in that session is erin the is the first one, right? Just air in the diner, erin e r i n her and and she’s she’s got an avatar of a unicorn, right? Our unicorn executive director and, you know, she’s, super smart, but super busy. She probably has personal demands on her life as well as professional demands. And she really wants her organization to thrive and be successful and her staff to be, you know, well equipped with all the things they need. We should hope so. But she also she also has a lot of pressures around budget around the board asking to do things so so that’s kind of like a snapshot of her right. Then you have in the middle section, like here’s, the things that are most important to her that she’s working on right now, like these air, the air forms are top priority rights fund-raising i’m trying to fundraise for, you know, two thousand nineteen, you know? The next one is i’m dealing with hr issues right in the next one like these air, so from my perspective, like the it guy, like i need to understand that, like, it is not in her top four things, this is just not, you know, so unless i can appeal to these problems and say that the work that robin and i are doing is going to help with these things or help you focus on them even more, i’m fighting a losing battle, right? Okay, yeah, okay. Okay. And then was there another component to the they’re going to the three point is yes, so the third probono hand is then is so if you think of these, like, three columns, right? So we’ve got like, this is about erin. These are the problems and challenges she faces than the last one is here. In order to successfully communicate with aaron, here are the things i’m going to dio, right? I’m going to ask her about the problems that she’s facing in the organization. Okay? And this is what robin, this is what you try to anticipate, and i’m going to communicate the why, what and how if everything were doing very clearly. I’m going to prepare fully from conversations with her, so i don’t not ever waste her time, right? I’m going to anticipate questions she’s goingto ask about things we want to do. This is where robbins. Incredible, right? So, robin, when we had a big meeting with her executive director, she reached out to me and said, we need teo spend probably four hours making a slide deck and here’s all the questions i think she’s gonna have, right? So you you take the time to do that and it’s, in my opinion, it’s stuff we all i think i know, but i think doing it, we’re not regularly. We’re not being fundez being intentional about it. Yeah. Okay, so and so that’s and so it’s. Like a little one sheet thing, you can stick on your office. And and now it’s a reminder to you like, okay, these are all the things i need to do before i go talk to aaron or send her an email or ask her for something, right? I need to understand these is her problems. And these are the things i need to do to communicate successfully, okay? Okay? And is that what about in terms of actual words like, i mean, your your your session to talk about language? Does it get down to that granular level or words? Natural words? How does that how do we find the commonality in the words like avoiding jar? I mean, avoiding technical jargon. All right, you help me? Yeah shouldn’t be trying, you know, i guess if you tell me no, i think you’re you’re right, it’s that sometimes even the number of words someone may not have enough time, do you have to really keep its distinct? In short, i’d say there’s a even bigger gap between fund-raising and where we need to translate it into fund-raising funders will understand too healthy development team to communicate their proposals. So a couple of times we’ve had to go back multiple times to understand how to phrase something, even to the point where we have a specific budget of twenty five thousand that means i may only be ableto order for laptops and not five, because i really am above twenty five thousand with five so it really there are, you know, boundaries that we have to follow on dh. Communicate. Get down, tio. Okay, okay. Joshua language. Anything you want to add about this is a language really specific example that we give in the session. We’ll give it here, too. And hold out on video. Listen, i’m not going. Teo, cut your mike again. We’ll get the penguin’s. I have offstage talent breeding. I would never i would never claim to be more effective than the penguin at a change management executive communication. One of the questions is if you’re, you know, expressing like, hey, i think we should go to sales forthis is another problem that comes up the executive, maybe read something in the times or maybe here’s something from a boardmember and says, you know, we should use slack everybody else using slacks, we should you slack and a lot of people or folks like robin, your operations are kind of like, is that really what we need to be doing right now? And the pushback on that with an executive? Give me challenging. So a question, a specific phrases. What? Help me understand what problems we have at this organization that slack is going to solve for it. Right? And then then follow-up question. Is how does solving that problem help our organization and it’s a softer way of kind of, you know, walking them back from an idea that might be a bit something came from a boardmember has a wild hair, right? Exactly right? And so that that question i always push people to come back to the question of please tell me what problem we’re trying to solve here, that’s what i have to understand and then on lee then cannot communicate. You know, whether slack is the right resource, right tool to do that exact or, you know, maybe there isn’t really a problem or maybe there’s a better way to solve it. Okay, yeah. That’s related. Teo. Something you mentioned in your description, which is, uh, the boardmember child and nephew. Uh, i have a nephew took a coding course. Yep. And, uh, i think he could help the organization with his computer science skill. Right? Rare. You’re found course certificate, right way do with joshua. Well, i mean, i’m not going to sound really redundant, but it’s the same. So help me understand what problem we have in this organization that a recently graduated she’s going programmer could could be effectively applied to solving right if we can identify that, that, in fact, there may be an opportunity for that person to help us, but if we’re hammer looking for a nail and we’re not a nail it’s going to hurt? Yeah, you know? And so okay, andi, rock god, robert doesn’t add to that we actually had an example where we wanted to show a boardmember how much something costs and what we folded into that was the cost of me spending time with that person who was volunteering, so they sold them, they see true cost. So there’s a real life example, this is a real life example, and we show them the true class, and they were shocked, so i would say, don’t be afraid to show them under the hood so they truly understand the impact of what they’re asking for you in your your role as cfo. You get a lot of that, you know, coming down from boardmember zor, maybe your executive director sort of these ad hoc, you know, i read this article type or i heard about slack type, you know, we should be looking at this there’s a lot. Of that that come to you. So i want to get compliments through our board before i sit, go any fire there until they’re an amazing forward. I really mean that, so no, we don’t get too much. But when we do that’s where this example came in, where we really showed the true cost of personnel time training, if this person doesn’t stay, you know, this person doesn’t last long enough to actually get the work done. What does that cost? So so we have a good bounce with our board, but we do want them to understand sometimes what their suggestions metoo institutional costs and including time, right, right, and what that’s resulted? That is, of course, because they fundez us. Then they understand they’re going to raise that much more. But this other person, the way they responded was actually very helpful. They said, look, you know what, let’s, let me join the committee with you so i can dig in and understand how this works. And so now he’s working with us, you threw an opportunity. That’s, right? Yes. Excellent. And pick you up on that? Yes, you may be okay, but i appreciate you asking. For you, teo, turn around to the other side of that close to your mind. Sorry, so i’m picking up on what robin said i’m go and going back to his redundant any of the problems, if if executive director came to me with that and said the boardmember want that if i’m i have a good, strong relationship, i’m okay having candid conversations, we actually have some in our workshop on howto, like develop resilience toe having difficult conversations, i might ask the exact director is the real problem here that we need to find something for this person to do, to engage with the organization to satisfy this boardmember if that’s actually the problem we have to solve, then i will solve it right? But that’s not the problem, then maybe this isn’t the right opportunity, right? But let’s, be honest about what the problem is exactly i can find something if that’s if that’s what you’re asking me to dio, you know, and we’re guard listen, whether benefits organization, because it may be on a macro level benefits because this this boardmember or yours and you will be happy donor, exactly important insider to the organization and and that’s, the perfect example of, like, i may not be able to see that as a mighty person, so i’m not open to seeing it and don’t know how to ask the questions. I’m hopeless. Okay, okay, now you teach something maybe that’s because it was in your other session which i which i forbid you from bringing you said, push back and difficult conversations no that’s in this session that’s it it’s going to be a way we don’t have a hard time keeping my boundary. I’m enforcing that and let’s let’s talk about that, some having having that difficult conversation, who wants to start? So actually, the topic is now pushing back. When when you’re getting resistance, is that it? Yes, doing it appropriately and right. Eso joshua could speak really well to this because we talked about this thing other evening, but in my case, i think i’m very clear on where we need to end up, but open to changes in the path and because i’m very clear on where we need to end up it’s not problematic when people push back. Okay, so you know, if you’re not confident, what? Where you think you need to go, then you question in yourself if people you know push back on you but a cz long as i’m clear on where i think we need to go, then it’s much easier to have those cards. Conversation you’re advocating for something that you really believe in. That’s. Good for the organization. That’s. Right. Ok. All right. So how do we do it? Well, essentially, there’s there’s. I think people think there are other good or not good at having difficult conversations with people and it’s a skill that you can build like any other skill. And were we give a couple examples. This will sound kind of out there, but the example, the first example, we give us something called the ten percent challenge. Where for a week you go. And this was not something i came up with this they got him. Noah kegan who came up with this and you go. Any retail transaction you have? I go to starbucks to buy coffee. I asked for ten percent off. And if the city of a coupon, you have a discount code, i said no, i’ve just i would like you to give me a ten. Percent discount because i just, um, asking and i’m hoping that you’ll give it to me and you’re not pushy about it or anything you just you just and you do that every time you bison, you force yourself to do that every time for a week, and what you’re doing is essentially, like the equivalent of a push up for having difficult conversations. You’re building the muscle? Yeah, you’re building the muscle for, you know, dealing with that discomfort around having may be a difficult conversation, what that there’s other things you can do, and it allows you to maybe talk to your executive about something that you think they’re not going to be very happy about and say, you know what? This thing that we set up isn’t going very well, here’s, why it’s not going well, here’s what i think we need to do to fix it and have that, you know, very candidly because our tendency is due over promise and under deliver constantly because it’s easier on an interpersonal level for me to promise you the world and then once i’m not in the room with you and doing stuff, just get it good enough. And then hope that you don’t notice that. It’s. Not really what i promised. And you want to do exactly the opposite. When i’m with you. I want to really calibrate expectations conservatively, even though you’re you may not like it, right? And if i, if i can get over that difficulty, that discomfort and get really used to it, and i’m going to be much more effective with that, okay? And where do you go? Out? Ten percent. Ten percent challenge? No kegan k a g a n you did it, it’s it’s. Kind of it’ll seem kind of cheesy because it’s kind of been like what i refer to is the opto bro community, you know, like all that, you know, like the, uh, you know, the tim. I mean, with all due respect to this group who i’m a huge fan of. And i suppose i should be dead, but you know what? They’re like the kind of young dot com guys who are, like here’s, how you optimize everything in your life. So it’s, like the young white venture capitalist crowd, got almost exclusively male who were like yours, that you optimize your fitness, your diet, your productivity or everything to be like a super you know, dotcom entrepreneur. So i refer to them. I shorthand them is opto bro’s? Isn’t that what we all aspire? Yes. Okay, let’s. See, we’re going to aa. We’re gonna bring the penguins back. Amy! Hey, could we get the penguins? Oh, and i was so dull. What did i say? Penguin wanted penguin. You know, this is aaron here’s, the arrows! Aaron the yeah, this is air in the air in the back, headset back honor because they’re stretching out, but, well, they’re in the on dh er wait, you need robbins to caress way brought in the frame garrett to bring robin another one. Okay, we need teo or we got everybody now. I guess that’ll do it right. Okay, now that you’re showing that penguin, don’t do that. Okay, there we go again. But it’s, aaron and yu want t this is the other one said, oh, that’s our other next hour, both very dapper in both eyes. All right, all right. This is the panel, aaron and cedric. Oh, and also joshua peskay a vice president, roundtable technology and also robin jenkins, cfo, chief financial on operating officer at the hope of program. Thank you so much. Thank you. Last thiss interview sponsored exclusively by network for good, easy to use donordigital and fund-raising software for non-profits thank you so much for being with non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc we need to take a break. Wagner, cps. We recently had segments on storytelling, but you don’t want your excellent storytelling to be so excellent, so compelling. That it leads to too many restricted gif ts based on the stories that’s where wagner comes in their block post is avoiding restrictions from donations inspired by storytelling. Regular cps dot com quick resource is then belong in a moment its capacity call out right now. Time for tony’s take two. A big lump of listener. Thank you. No discrimination, no hierarchical. Thank you’s. If you are supporting listening to this show, supporting this show, gaining knowledge and help from this show for your organization, for your work. I’m glad. Thank you. Thank you for being with us. You’re getting something out of it. But we are on this end too. And i certainly am so glad that the show helps you. It helps you do the good work that you need to do. Thank you for being with us, it’s that simple. My video of gratitude if you wanna get a little more complex at tony martignetti dot com now time for steve. Hi and capacity. Call out. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference in new orleans. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising. Self aware for non-profits and my guest is steve. Hi, he’s. Solution consultant at net sweet. Welcome, steve. I thank you. Welcome pleasure. You want to welcome you to my own show? Well, i feel welcome. You are. You are genuinely welcome. Your seminar topic is capacity is more than a buzzword. Yep. Alright, that’s short. But i feel like there’s a lot in there. Iss what are we talking about? When we say capacity? What do you mean? And that was the whole point in the session. The whole point of the session was varies depending on where you’re sitting and yet there’s so many definitions of capacity. Everybody talks about it differently. So the idea of this session was too, really walk through all the different ways that people talk about capacity, how you can measure it, how you act on it when you know what it is. And so one of the key things was providing context to the word capacity. So the only way you can really talk about capacities by putting something in front of it. Like if you think about a car, it has seating capacity. Where if you think about, you know, a truck. It has towing capacity. All right, so that was a lot of our framework. So what are some things that might go? A friend of, uh, acquisition capacity fund-raising capacity. So fund-raising bassett is a good example. Organizational capacity program capacity, you know, financial capacity, technical. So we did it’s been quite a bit of time on technology, cassidy. So we’re around, you know, duvette right systems, right operations, the right technology, the right tech staff skills also. So there’s, you know, layers to how you can talk about capacity within an organization to meet their mission. All right, what with it being the non-profit technology conference? I feel like we should start with technology capacity. Absolute, which is a phrase i’ve never heard. Yes, i’ve heard those two words never put together. Yeah, what now, make sure you know that our listeners are large over twelve thousand there in small and midsize non-profits so they may very well not have any devoted technology staff correct. They probably sure they still have some some technology capacity right on, and we’re gonna help them try to measure it right? And we’ll flush it out more because i can’t even think about other things, too, say about it right now, but i’ll know more in about twenty minutes. Exactly. Um okay, but so, you know, a very good chance they don’t have dedicated technology staff, right? They’re outsourcing everything that they need or they’re piecing it together through. Ah, they’re executive director. And maybe you don’t an office manager or something. Okay? Technology capacity. Okay. What is that? So one thing to think about is the technical capacity. So what do you have enough? Do you have someone on staff that knows enough to able to talk to the vendors you work with and to be able to do the right sort of planning so that you at least understand the systems you have and the need you have so it’s a simple term of technical questioning. Meaning you know the right questions to ask. You know, you have a person driving the strategy. You have somebody making the decisions around your technique technology. And so one of the things that we do at my work is we donate software. Yes. Through social impact. Yes. And so what? My role is before we donate to software what we want to do. Is ask a simple set of questions to see if they have enough technical capacity to be able to implement the software. Oh, i know how you fit into this. Because i had peggy duvette on the show. Yes, just maybe two months ago. Or so you could. You could. If you miss that one, you go to twenty martignetti dot com and you could search her last name. Do you, e t and you can listen to how oracle net sweet social impact has all kinds of free not only product, but also consulting to go along with that to help you build your capacity for use the product that you will get from social impact from from oracle, that sweet social done. You could go back and listen to that. Okay. So now, steve, hi. You fit in determining whether an organisation has the capacity in a technical side. Correct. Tio tio, use what? Your company don’t generously donate. Correct. Okay, so how do you measure it? So we e so one of the challenges we had way had all kinds of grand ideas of how to measure. So he had all these thoughts around, you know, really? Deep interviews and but all of those things take time. So what we ended up doing as we came up with a very simple set of, like, twelve questions, and they’re all kind of very high level questions, but give us a set of information. For example, we asked, do you have a tech plan? These are these questions answered online? Yes. It’s a form that they fill out a hell of a lie you’re building your capacity for for intake to the donation program through social impact. Correct. You are. Congratulations. We had our own constraints and your talk. You’re walking your walk? Yes, it was one questions in your do you have a tech plan? One is. Do you have an i t staff and most people say no, but the second the answer is no, we don’t. But we have a volunteer that has a lot of tech skills that helps all of us allow it a lot. Another question was around. How much time are you willing to commit to a project? How much do you have? A financial understanding accounting in those kind of questions. Right? So the software is khun khun take on financial financial management, right. And i just use this is the one example of measuring technical capacity. And so then the idea is ok. Now we understand our capacity. Where do we where do we have gaps? And then what are some creative ways to fill that so for our non-profit to think about their technique capacity, that’s simple to just sit down and look at it. And then if you decide good. Okay, i got to stop for a minute. Yeah. What if what if an organization is not planning to apply? Tio oracle, that sweet social impact for donation? Can they still use these question? I mean, how would they manage our measure, their technical capacity? So our questions are pretty specific to our program. If they have an organization i think is looking to measure their own, i would look at the end ten and ten just lost the new launched a new technical capacity survey as well. That one is much more broad and open. Okay, so i would look to somebody, something like that for a more generic won. The example i use is just a little straight. Why? You would measure it in what you would do with a one way of measuring the inten a technical capacity survey. You could find it. And ten and tn dot org’s. Yes, kruckel second capacity and that’s a new one that they’ve just launched. And it kind of helps you give, get a clear picture of the technical capacity of your full organization as a whole and then gives you when you take the survey, it will spit out results afterwards of oh, you were a little short here. Go read this book here. Oh, you’re short here. Here’s a website. You should go visit. So it gives us set of recommendations as well. So that once you understand you capacity now you have a set of actions to follow-up right as well. So there is that much more public. Ours is for a very specific purpose. Yeah. So that was a key part of our whole presentation. My presentation of capacity was the there before you even talk about capacity. The key is to understand what? What? What capacity? Trying to understand what gold you have once you understand your capacity. And that would help you determine what type of assessment to do so, for example. Yeah, help. If your goal was to increase your outcomes, your program outcomes so you want to be more effective in the work you do to meet your mission. That would probably mean you would need to do like two different assessments. One is organizational effectiveness. How well do your staff work and how clear our their goals and isn’t tied to the outcomes versus a resource falik assessment to figure out ofyour right funding? Do you have the right revenue streams to support the right staff and then to do a staff have the right skills? So tying those two things together then allows you determine what needs to change in order to have more outcomes from your organization? Ok, boy, that’s a mouthful. It’s a lot. A lot. I’m gonna take a little aggression. So what is your work now, if you’re you strictly devoted to measuring the capacity of potential grantees for the social impact program, so no, i do two things. One is i designed this. The assessments that we use to figure out their capacity design that survey. Okay? And then i designed the interventions that go with it. So once we have their assessment, then we figure out what path they need to go down and what they need to get ready to be able to implement the software. And then once they’re implemented, i figure out, well, there there’s this capacity, we create interventions along the way to help them grow in their capacity so that they’re more successful in what they’re trying to do. Okay, like, but i know a standard part of a program is there’s a monthly monthly webinar for grantees drive that right? So there’s quarterly probono and then there’s regular opportunities to get help and assistance? Yes, we don’t know that there was something webinar maybe i’m wrong, okay? Yeah, i know i’m not sure, but i do a lot of interviews. Yeah, you’re being kind because it doesn’t exist. Not only you’re not sure about it does exist. I just realized you’re you’re good. He has branded oh yeah, you’re branded with nets sweet it’s, the old it’s our old logo on the old alright doesn’t say work along. All right? Yeah. Okay. All right. We got a good amount of time together. Yeah. How do we know what i’d love to talk about it? Unless you were going to take it out. Please go ahead. Thistle. Abstruse for me? Yes, absolutely. Zoho that was the whole purpose of the session was because when people talk about capacity, they it’s such a buzz word that it means nothing like this whole session, if we’re not careful, belongs in george in jail. It’s. And it is the whole thing was jargon joe and that’s. What? Really? So so what? The way i’ve structured the session was i first talked about. There are standard models of doing organizational capacity assessment. Mckinsey has one there’s, an organization called lisk that has one that’s called cap map. And then there’s an organization called the unit. I think it’s a unity foundation. And they have a model so it’s, a very purposeful, driven model. And they measure it in different ways. So you can do a capacity assessment as a self assessment where you just every staff person kind of takes a survey. You look at avery quantitative way to figure out what your what your capacity looks like that way, then you khun benchmark yourself against others that have taken the same survey or what they do is usually give you a report that says here’s your capacity here’s the actions need take here’s your strengths, here’s your weaknesses that’s quite an algorithm. How did they figure all that out? Yeah, and that’s that? Yeah. Then that’s. Why? You should leave something like that to the professionals? Because i don’t know. Okay, you are a professional. You designed a twelve question survey. Yeah, yeah. It’s a week really scaled ours. Now you’re touching at the perimeters of this, but gosh, i mean all right. What? What are the factors that go into it? Depends what kind of capacity you’re measuring me. We gotta break it down so i can break it down. So we had a list of six things. So is it really hold your list? Hold you. Listen, it sounds like something interesting, but is it really worthless to say the phrase organizational capacity? It is useless. It doesn’t mean anything. Yes, it factors in all these different capacities, right? That that is so it’s a broad. It really is unhelpful. Right? And organizational capacity. For what? For what? That’s? My follow up question. Capacity for what? Okay, okay. So that was one of my biggest struggles was as i walk around, you know, the vendor booths, and i will go to sessions and i could hear people and, you know, all of these vendors and several of, like, capacity building initiative. So what? What does that what does that mean? And what does that? How does their non-profit actually act on that? It just becomes, you know, like other words that people throw around there, just buzzwords, and it doesn’t have enough of a meeting. So that was my goal. Was that really actually give it a meaningful contact? Okay, now i see how worthless that is. Georgia. Organizational capacity really is all right. You had your your your clickbait and i’m clicking six list of six. Yeah. So though, so when the when the those three surveys, when they would do their type of assessment, they can’t keyed in a on key areas. One was leadership in governance. So that’s the top level? Do you have the right leadership? You have the right board structure because that really drives a lot of things. The second level then was around do have the right strategy and plan. And then the third was like program delivery. The fourth was around the right staff and structure to do that part. And then the last was resource is in the last was the final, final one with zsystems. Okay, so the penultimate was resource is, yes, the ultimate was back-up saying last night wasn’t the last one that was my sixth and ultimate. Yes, uh, okay, s so all right, so we have these six areas that okay, so these are the two categories that the tools that you mentioned, like the mackenzie said, this is what they’re surveying, yet they’re breaking down into differently. Yeah, okay, different layers of capacity, okay. And then that that broad. All right, go ahead. Yeah. So when you take those six, then it becomes much more meaningful to talk about capacity. Because if you break those down, you take the first two for example, leadership in governance and strategy and planning. If you if you do an assessment on that to see how effective you are, the gore, the and creating a strategy driving towards your mission and then does the board actually have the right governance structure and the leadership have the right tools in place to actually make changes that build your ability to meet those things. So that becomes more meaningful, rather entire organization capacity, which is such a fluffy where that means nothing. When you get into the details of does your leadership do the right things to move you closer to meeting your mission? Okay. So now you’re talking about tying capacity goals yet to the to your plan. Yeah, well, see your organization? Yes, exactly. Organization as it exists. And then you need a plan for filling the gap between what you need and what you have yet to reach the capacity that you’re striving for. Right? Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Those sentences makes sense. What i just said they make sense. Okay, all right. Got to take a break. Tell us this new tellis moughniyah liz from a company tell us, has been has allowed my business to support my favorite charity without even feeling the pinch of writing a check. I am donating money every month that i would have spent on credit card processing anyway. Also, their customer service is far better than we’ve ever had. End quote, one hundred percent business satisfaction with tell us the businesses you refer are going to love it. You will get the money. Watch the video at tony dahna slash tony. Tell us now. Back to capacity. Call out with steve. Hi. All right. So if you don’t have the means, you need one of these tools. You need some kind of professional. You said that earlier? Yeah. That’s. Where? Bringing bringing the professional. You really need some help measuring your capacity in whatever it was through. Whatever chadband whatever channel you want to talk about correct way that you’re concerned about you. And if you’re concerned about your whole organization, then it’s the six sound like the place to start, but you need help, right? And so on, but i think it’s, in a large organization, you really, really help if you’re small and you only have six staff, right? There’s really boils down to is simple questions, because then you don’t need the complex question because you don’t have eight departments to interview, you don’t have one hundred staff, you don’t have this big, unknown kind of presents from my wife’s organization that is no full time staff, you know, they just have a couple, you know, like, eat part time staff, they’re never going to need an organizational capacity assessment. They know they know what they can and can’t do, but so at that level, what they need to acknowledge, though, is do they have a strategic plan? Do they have a mission statement? Do they have a vision statement? Is their board engage, you know, and asking some simple questions like that and then doing it on a quarterly basis and then actually investing in that and finding someone that could maybe come in on a pro bono basis and just provide an outside opinion of whether things were going well or not on that organizational top level leadership? Because i think with small organizations what tends to happen is obviously they don’t need this, you know, one hundred question assessment, but what they do need is to have somebody tell them if they’re spending enough time strategically thinking versus just meeting today’s needs. So that’s, where we really spent the rest, that second half of our session was we were focused in on well, i gave an analogy, so the analogy i used was beer. So my whole session was your themed. My slides had beer on it. I gave away beer during my session was wonderful. It was a nice ice breaker. So the idea was, i gave somebody a beer. I said here, hold this beer. And then i threw a ball to them and told him to catch the ball. They were able to catch the ball, and then i did it again, and then somebody in the audience says, well, why don’t they set down their beer so they can catch the ball use here? And so i was like, oh, that’s, a great question. I was hoping somebody would ask that that was the whole idea for the exercise and i said, the reason you don’t want to sit down your beer is what we want to do is pretend to beers your mission and what often happens at a small non-profit is we put all of our capacity into catching the everyday balls we set down our beer, which is our mission, and nobody ever takes enough time to really think about how do we meet the one year goal, the three year goal in the five year goal? What changes do we need to make today? So for example, was going go back back to my wife’s small non-profit they wanted in five years from now, they wanted to be able to have my wife retire as the founder, but as an unpaid executive director, you can’t hire another executive director and tell him that it’s a freak job. Yeah, so she’s like, well, if i could want to retire, i need to be able to pay an executive tractor, so but in order to do that, i need to have more students in our program and in order to have more students in our program, i need to have a second studio, but in order have a second studio, i need to have a better staff set of of skills so that i can handle capacity, so i don’t have enough people in my organization to handle more students, so she worked backwards from there and figure out which capacity she needed to start with fixing, and what she needed to start with was management. So she took her executive director roll started breaking into an admin role, a program role and an executive director role, which usually doesn’t happen it tiny non-profits usually it has one leader, and they control all the power and it’s that founder syndrome of a lyman charge, and then what happens over time those that when that founder leaves, you have that? Oh, my gosh, is that huge hole? So she saw the capacity need of ok at the leadership level on strategy level can’t be me. We’re going to spread the beer around everybody’s, going to have a cup full of beer, and we’re all going to hold the mission and hold onto it together, and we’re going to share a part of it. So i think that’s the difference between what’s needed at a tiny organization versus a large one if you’re complicated, if you’ve a lot of politics, a lot of messiness, you need someone from the outside to come in with a very rigid tested nice framework. Toby, evaluate your capacity at the leadership level at a small one. It’s usually it’s just having coffee with a friend that understands is coming to a conference like this and having somebody just sit down. You share what you d’oh give you a beer and throw balls at yes, exactly. So what? The way my wife did it was she went to a dance studio owner conference she’s a non-profit dance studio. She had other studio owners tell her and do an evaluation of how she was working. So she benchmarked against them. She told him how she was doing and they’re like all you’re doing this wrong. You’re doing this wrong and the leadership level. So it was a peer evaluation rather than a formal evaluation. All right, first of all, shout out the name of the organization. Oh, my wife’s organisations called leap of faith arts ministries. So it’s a very small non-profit in the chicago land area. Okay, okay. All right, so this is very helpful because we’re breaking it down now for smaller organizations. Yeah, there’s also there’s a good degree of self assessment. I mean, inspection going, yes, there are a lot of founders who would not be willing to divide their job. Yeah, the way your wife did in tow three parts and that’s a that’s, a real struggle because you’re putting all the burden on one person, which is great because that that one person is there for a reason they’re really good at their job and they do it well, so it makes sense tow have them keep all of that stuff. But at the same time, you’re not building a long term capacity for that organization cause when the founder leaves, then the whole order dies. And it’s also not healthy for all these different functions to be in right, ready in one place, because even if the founder doesn’t leave or doesn’t die, eventually they go on vacation. Yeah, they do on dh if if if if getting to the next level which i hear a lot right, you know, how do i do? It is important to you? Yes. Then having a founder. Or maybe two people, maybe not literally just one. But write one or two people holding all the keys and the power that’s all the potential for the organization is is unhealthy. Limited instrument, of course. So yeah. So that was a start assessing start looking in for introspection. Yeah. Figuring out where the you know where the consolidation of power is, so that you can spread it out so that more people are involved. So then we then we continue the conversation to a much more tactical level. So we ended with all right. So if we want to be able to spend more time thinking, capacity, thinking, strategy, thinking, leadership, the on ly way we can do that is to stop doing other things. So you you need to be able to sit down and okay, where am i spending my time? That isn’t helping the mission. What tasks am i doing? What tax my staff doing mohr introspection. Right? So then you look down and you go, okay, well, wow. We’re spending a lot of time on our finances were spending a lot of time tracking our donors that we’re spending a lot of time. Tracking manual pieces of paper for our students doing registration, doing so you talked to start to take those things that there are systems in ways to automate those things. So it’s almost taking a laundry list of, you know, work for three weeks, right down where you spend your hour every hour to write down. Oh, i spent this on adam and i spent this some finance. I spent this and just doing like, a catalogue of your time and then looking back and going so well, i spent a lot of time doing stuff that really doesn’t change our outcomes. It makes us run, and it has to be done. But i could probably give that decided piela won doing it. Yeah. So so then that’s where you start to break down and build capacity because it allows you to focus on the mission in the vision and strategy, and you start to offload those things. And almost everybody went to get a capacity. Says that the first two things they think it’s all i need to raise more money. I need to hire more staff. That’s the only way that we’re going to build capacity and really to me, it’s not that you, khun. If you get your staff trained, they may be able to work better if you get the right systems. It may take away some of the work that you spent all your time doing. If you start to bring in probono staff to do some of this look for a probono accountant look for probono lawyer look for, you know, ways to supplement your staff because of you, in my experience every non-profit that i’ve been at when we ask for more money, or we ask for more staff, the answer is always no. So when i talk about capacity, i say let’s, just stop talking about the illusion that there’s more money and more staff so let’s take and go in two directions. The only way you can do it is supplement your staff, increase the skills of your staff, or look for ways to automate things that your staff shouldn’t be doing that a system can do for you that’s where we ended and that was a really fun cover, that that was the fun part of the conversation to me once we get past the gobbledygook of the word capacity. And the words organizational capacity because really what all what it’s all about is what do you choose to spend your time on? What tasks do you choose as your priorities and what? Where do you invest? The resource is thatyou’re non-profit has been given to meet your mission. What kind of questions did you get? The questions i got from the audience were really about one a lot about the tools. Which tools should i use? Of course, that’s where we started the other one, though, was what do you do? One leadership stands in the way and doesn’t want to change. Or what do you do when thie organization is so small that you know, these tools get away don’t know. Sorry latto clothe first one leadership leadership is resistant. Yeah, so i think when leadership is resistant to this, i think the best way to do it is to celebrate small winds, so arguing with the leadership and trying to prove your point usually doesn’t work. So i think what the way i’ve approached this in the past was do small experiments with just the other staff around you find ways to involve a volunteer or automata. Task and then celebrate it and show hey, you know, we did this little thing over here, and it saved me three hours a week, and now i’m able to do this other work. So i think a way to convince leadership is to prove success when you change capacity on your own, and then eventually you can show them dahna that it is worthwhile for them to spend time, maybe bite it off in small bit and do a test and show show the improvement. Yeah, exactly. Small level. Okay, we got time for one more question that you were asked and but because you can provide the answer. So the last one that since this is a technology conference is doesn’t make sense to do a technology specific assessment and i think that’s another way to answer the first question. So one of the ways that you can get around if somebody doesn’t want to do a full organization assessment, there are some great ways to have somebody just come in. Look at your technology set up, you know, hyre of endor or ask money report members. If they have a solid person, have them come into an inventory of your look at your tax strategy, i think that’s a simple way to start to prove the worth wildness of spending time looking at capacity is just to start with a technology capacity assessment and just have a vendor committed. Do it for you. That it’s. Not all that expensive. If you can find it probono it it’s. Very effective, too. Okay, we’re gonna leave it there. Yeah, steve. Hi. Thank you very much. Thank you. I hope i didn’t confuse you too much of a good overview. I mean, it’s a it’s, a dense topic. But it is a really done you broke it down. Well, for the small order. Good. Steve. Hi, he’s. The solution consultant at net sweet. Thank you again. Thank you. Appreciate it. My pleasure. This interview sponsored by network for good, easy to use dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. And you are with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc wrapping up our coverage right now. This interview. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Next week. Attentive and productive with steve rio at bright webb. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you find it on tony martignetti dot com were supported by pursuing toe online tools for small and midsize non-profit it’s, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant radio by wagner, cps, guiding you beyond the numbers. 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Nonprofit Radio for August 15, 2014: Female Technologists & Hiring Geeks

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Dahna Goldstein, Rose de Fremery, Tracy Kronzak: Female Technologists 

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Dahna Goldstein, Rose de Fremery, Tracy Kronzak

Women are underrepresented in nonprofit technology–and leadership. What can your organization do to support the women who make up 60% of nonprofit employees? How can women help their own careers and each other? Dahna Goldstein is founder and CEO of PhilanTech; Rose de Fremery is founder & CEO of lowercase d Consulting; and Tracy Kronzak is consulting manager at Cloud for Good (Recorded at NTEN’s Nonprofit Technology Conference.)

 

 

 Amy Sample Ward: Hiring Geeks

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Amy Sample Ward

Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor and CEO of NTEN, the Nonprofit Technology Network, shares strategies for hiring technologists if you’re not technical: job descriptions; interviewing; testing; and onboarding. 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week, jeff jody he’s, constantly spreading the word about non-profit radio, especially on twitter, is in athens, georgia, and franklin, tennessee. His businesses, lighthouse counsel. At lighthouse council dot com on twitter he’s at jeff jody j o w d y jeff shout out to you! Thank you so, so much for helping spread the word about non-profit radio. Really, i’m very, very grateful for your support. Congratulations on being our listener of the week. Jeff! Jody! Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d come down with african trypanosomiasis if i heard that you had missed today’s show female technologists, women are underrepresented in non-profit technology and leadership. What can your organization due to support the women who make up sixty percent of non-profit employees? And how can women help their own careers and each other? Our panel interview is from the non-profit technology conference back in april and hiring geeks, maybe sample ward, our social media contributor and ceo of n ten, the non-profit technology network, which hosts the non-profit technology conference, shares her strategies for hiring technologists. If you’re not technical job descriptions, interviewing, testing and onboarding or what we’ll talk about on tony’s, take two a taste of non-profit radio video we’re sponsored by generosity siri’s they host multi charity five k runs and walk here’s the interview from non-profit technology conference on female technologists, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc twenty fourteen we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c and i am joined by three women. We are going to talk about female technologists leading ourselves on duh leading helping each other, and those three women are dahna goldstein she’s founder and ceo of philantech rose defremery founder and ceo of lower case d consulting, and tracy kronzak, consulting manager at cloud for good ladies. Welcome. Thank you, thank you. Get to be here, let’s. Start furthest away, tracy. Well, why are women so underrepresented in technology? You know, i think it has a lot to do with a few things, you know? I’ll start with a little factoid, and it really is one because women in the nonprofit sector represent almost sixty percent of non-profit staff and on lee, twenty one percent of senior leadership. And that means that when you layer in something like technology, what happens is that you are not on ly coming to the table with already it’s slanted against you when it comes to accessing senior leadership. But all of the things that we talk about at this conference here, such as getting it to the table in the first problem, is prioritizing strategy at an organization you’re fighting that in addition to that slanted table. And lastly, you’re also fighting the factors that actually just make women’s career success something much more difficult than men’s career success because of all the things that you know, you’ll hear from, like strong women leaders in the for-profit sector, like marissa mayer and shell samberg’s, say about mentor ship role models and the ability to access that sort of informal formality that happens there on career promotion. So, you know, we’re here today because this is a time that it’s come from women in the sector, and we’re here today to talk about an issue whose time is necessary to talk about at this conference, and it sounds like women need to be helping each other considerably more than they are absolutely, i mean, the time has come for both women to not only step up to the plate with our own networks but simultaneously, you know, make sure that we’re looking forward for our own careers and put our hands back for people’s careers behind us, most notably other women okay, roughs anything more? You want to add introductory wise us to that topic? Absolutely, uh, the issue of women and technology in our sector, to my knowledge has never really been a formal topic of conversation at this conference, where in other non-profit forums that have been a part of and speaking as someone who has a long career in non-profit before the career, i have now about ten years as a non-profit director, i personally select role models. There weren’t i was one of the only ones around who i could look to as as the person who was performing that function. Uh, and although there’s plenty of networking for tea here at this conference, women in technology that has not been a dedicated for maura dedicated topic of conversation and there’s so much fertile ground. Um, and i’ve had women over plenty of time coming to me because they saw me in this role wanting to have this conversation. I thought, you know what? We really need to be talking about this in a more formal i structured way, okay? And rose in your own career, going backwards as an it professional. Did you feel sort? Of left out. Or did you did you, in fact have the support that we were encouraging? Well, it’s interesting, because some of that is mixed in with the issue that tracy was talking about just now where it is a function can have difficulty getting a seat at the table man or woman. I see my male peers running into this often as well. That being said, ah, yeah, and i think that some of this was, uh, necessary to build on my own networks and support groups of in mentorship opportunities with other women. Um, i didn’t necessarily feel obviously in concrete. Lee left out often, but then rate later on in my career, i began to realize, wait a minute in order to advance my career to the next level, i really need to be doing more in my own professional dahna and figuring some of that out a good amount of it on your own. Exactly. You know, dahna anything you can add the introductory wise. Yeah, i do think that the time has really come to have this conversation and i think even just walking around the conference if you look at the number of women here versus the number of men, you know, a lot of more tech oriented conferences, you’ll see a lot more men than women. But if you come to the auntie si, there are a lot of women so there’s a lot of women representation here, not everybody, is necessarily in a technology function in their organization, and some of that has to do with just the way that it functions are developing and non-profits and that a lot of people, men and women end up being maura kind of accidental techies and sort of being the people in their organization who are in a marketing your communications function, who are just comfortable with technology and end up sort of taking on the role of technologists. So one of the things that we feel is important to talk about is particularly for women but for men as well. When you end up in that accidental techie rule, as technology is becoming really mohr integrated into the mission work of organizations, how khun that transform your job function and potentially your job title so that technology is a more essential part of the role and more cases part of the job. Description in the job function that it’s actually being being pursued and since you’re talking about jobs, you just ended job description and function what what daniken can organizations do? And we’re going to get to the personal level also women helping themselves and each other, but let’s start at the organization level. What would you like to see done differently? Better? There are a number of things, and one is, you know, i do think that this this conversation about women and technology is really tied into the conversation about technology having a seat in the at the table in general s o bringing technology to the table to senior management, but the the staff that that tracey mentioned early on that despite the fact that women represent sixty percent of the jobs and the nonprofit sector on ly twenty one percent of the leadership, i think it’s really important for organizations to grow there women leaders and to grow women who are performing good functions within the organization into leadership roles, promote them into leadership roles, bring them to the table, we’ll bring them us into senior management s so that we can also then provide role models. For people coming behind us. And do you have advice at the board level? The non-profit board could be contributing to this. I mean, i think the board needs to be involved in the conversation. You know, boards are involved in doing things like setting hiring plants and setting compensation plans. So, you know, sometimes the board construction can also be ah, factor dependent. You know, an all male board is more likely to think about things and all male terms. So depending on the board construction, there may be ways to diversify the boards as well. There have been a number of studies that have come out recently in the for-profit sector that outlined the fact that companies that have women on boards and women and senior management rules outperform companies that don’t. You were making that point. Tracy was violently shaking your head. Yes. You want to tell us about one of those surveys? Well, i mean it. Obviously, the facts and statistics are out there. And frankly, one of my favorite terms lately at this conference has been let me google that for you. Because i think, you know, to dana’s point, you know, we have studied the phenomena of women in technology for years we know where the numbers lie for both companies that make conscious efforts to incorporate women’s leadership into their board and senior management. We know how they perform. We know, you know, on awful lot about women. But all of that study is actually, in my opinion, taking the place of riel action. Well, it’s, the kind of writes the chronic that we hear a lot of times by obstructionists needs to be studied more exactly, better studies. The research is not there, right? Yeah, you know, so it’s, like, you know, when people ask me for facts and statistics, i’m like, let me google that for you right now, i’ll tell you so. But on the other hand, it’s, like, you know, the difference now is the time has come for action. And i think what all of us came to the realization during the course of development of this workshop is that in the absence of seeing concrete, organizational action or consistent organizational action in the nonprofit sector, we would start somewhere. And that was kind of the onus for this workshop to beginning with anything more tracy you’d like to add to what dahna suggested still at the organization level, i think of the organization level, the study that most kind of resonates with my own experience is the one that says, you know, organizations that are mostly predominantly run by men always will default to male modalities and hiring and promotions, and it’s not got anything to do other than with communication styles and presentation of career assertiveness that makes those choices happen and very unconscious ways. So we can on ly break that by being much more conscious about elevating women toe boards until leadership positions in the nonprofit sector roughs anything you want to add on the organization level? Uh, well, i’m goingto definitely agree with my colleagues on what they said so far. Um, i also think that it happens at the personal level that women ourselves as technologists are going to have to kind of stretch forward and backward at the same time we’re going to be advancing ourselves and ours, our careers, um, and seeking a seat at the table if it’s not extended and and like tracy said, i don’t necessarily think it’s always a conscious thing, i think that there are defaults in culture that can kind of facilitate this but it’s not necessarily an obstacle. All you need to do is kind of press forward and ask one of the things that i learned in the research for tomorrow’s presentation was ah, that women a cz muchas this is still, you know, being debated and discussed right are not requesting professional advancement opportunities as much as they could, um, in the mentorship department. So that’s something that we as women can do, um, and it’s there’s nothing to lose, there’s everything to gain, but at the same time, i think we also need to recognize our own talents and experience and consciously look at other women dahna made a point about if you’re a woman and senior leadership at a non-profit to consciously invite other women who are coming up in the organization, too, the table to leadership discussions and conversations and forms, which would be appropriate so they can get experience and exposure. So you’re not necessarily asking for a promotion, but you’re asking for inclusion into some of the is it literally just like some of the meetings that you’re excluded from, even even without that having that? Leadership title? Is it that easy? Or i guess i’m asking what what is it we’re asking for? We should be asking for, well, that’s going to depend on a specific woman in her situation, so they’re they’re they’re playing women who i think probably should and, you know, definitely need to go out there and as for promotions, depending on what they’re doing and you know where they are in their career, but at the organizational level, absolutely, i think that there should be concrete efforts to develop women in terms of professional development, development opportunities, trainings and education and all of that kind of stuff that’s invested in the staff and this this also is an issue for i t staff non-profits in general men and women. Um but ah, in addition to that women and and others and in leadership in organizations should yeah, consciously think about if we have forums where decisions are being made in the organization at that hyre level, how do we get the younger women who have leadership potential explosive that an early stage? Excellent. Okay, i can actually often example from the for-profit world as well. And that is, you know, at this last dream force, which is a very large sales force conference this year, mark many often, and cheryl samberg spoke a great deal about some of the stuff that they’re doing at salesforce dot com with regards to including women in that kind of experience and it’s not so much that it’s the case that we’re saying ok, now you as a junior person should come in and make senior level decisions, but the truth is, is it’s a recognition that the exposure to the process is about how those decisions get made? The types of conversations that need to happen around them are limited for women and in there, the limited in a number of ways up to and including the absence of role models at higher levels. So, you know, if you’re a guy in technology, you know, another guy will take you out for a drink and say, you know, okay, young lion hears how business takes place, whereas, you know, if you’re a young woman in technology, a guy will take you out for a drink and everybody will say, ah, washington d c so, you know, the truth is i don’t get that. Washington. I don’t get it younger woman, older male usually indicates a transactional relationship, so here we are in washington, okay. Oh, i see on a d c residents. I’d take that a little personal thing. So you know, the new yorker, i did, i didn’t get it. I don’t think we think i hope you don’t think like that in new york. I don’t, i don’t think we do, but all right, but we’re in the belt, we are in the beltway now. I i got it now, thank you, didn’t didn’t, didn’t dick dude ing good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get you thinking. Dahna. Good this’s. The way we’re hosting a party in my french city, guests come from all over the world, from mali to new caledonia, from paris to keep back. French is a common language. Yes, they all come from different cultures, background or countries, and it comes desires to make new york they’re home. Listen to them. Share this story. Join us, part of my french new york city. Every monday from one to two p, m. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll dahna you know, they’re making an effort for young women who are identified as potential leaders at salesforce dot com to be included in those types of manager meeting so that they can understand how those meetings take place and then replicate that modality of that decision making in their own careers to enable their own advancement. So, you know, he said, oh, i got an email mark daniel said, i got an email from a woman saying, i don’t feel comfortable going to this meeting because i’m going to this meeting and my manager, who’s a male, is not and he said, no, you absolutely need to be there because your manager, who is a male, has obviously had already the exposure to this type of meeting that you’re not getting so come, you know? And i think it’s those kinds of simple steps that can vary from organization, organization and career to career that can help create new, fresh opportunities for women in the sector in a way that, you know, hasn’t even been fully encompassed in terms of what the possibilities are, okay, dahna are there any resource is that you can point organizations to our sites that you can point argast idealware any any anything that an organization could turn to for increasing diversity and making conscious decisions around elevating the the statue of women? Well, i would say the first thing is anybody who’s, an anti seizure come to our session tomorrow on we will give some practical tips for the incredibly this is not going to air. We’re not. We’re not live and s o but people should have come to our senses that ntcdinosaur don’t worry overviewing sorry e-giving come, t c well, it’s it’s your life, but next year it’ll be a fifteen ntcdinosaur anything else? What about what i would recommend is starting? Teo, look within your organization to see if there is a woman who could take that leadership role and who can start teo, bring other women to the table if there isn’t somebody within the organization who’s in a position to do that looked to other organizations, maybe there are collaborating organizations. Maybe they’re partners, you know, maybe there’s somebody on the on the board who it has been a successful woman in business, you know, to have her come in and help think about howto structure programs and doesn’t need to be that formal, but how to start to create that type of inclusion at the organization. Okay, andi let’s, stay with you down, and we’ve talked some about what women can do for themselves, but let’s think about what women could be doing for other women that we haven’t we haven’t touched on yet. Where can we start there? Dahna yeah, absolutely. So, you know, i think that negroes mentioned this a little bit, but, you know, we’re at a point in the development of women and i t where there aren’t that many women and later the senior leadership roles, those who are and those who were sort of coming up through the ranks, we think have an opportunity and maybe even a responsibility to be good role models. Teo, you know, really bring to the four what they’re bringing to the table and also to mentor women who were coming behind them. You know, i think one of the things that we all experienced more have all experienced to date is that none of us really had any mentorship. We didn’t have any women who were doing the types of things that we thought we wanted to do who we could go to to ask for advice. And now that there are women who are in these types of roles, there’s a real opportunity and a real need, we’ve seen it already, and we have forty women signed up for the session to tomorrow. Younger women who are coming up through the ranks and non-profits doing on t work are really looking for that type of mentorship. They aren’t necessarily asking for it. So it’s zoho those rose would advise. And obviously rose said absolutely, if you would agree way that women should be asking absolutely, but but okay, but from the senior level we should be offering exactly. And if women aren’t asking, then we should be offering that’s exciting eyes, there’s something going on, universities that need maybe even lower in education. That’s discouraging women from thinking about careers in computer science, computer engineering, computer programming. I can speak to that. Okay? Because i took computer science at oberlin college. This was some time ago, but i found myself or berlin. Okay. Yeah, this was a while ago, but unfortunately, it is much the same as it was when i was there. This is circa nineteen, ninety four to nineteen, ninety eight. There are so very few women in computer science. Yeah, i was literally like one of the only women. I think i was the only woman in certain classes in one of two and the others on. But does this mean, is there something institutional in our education process, but even going back to high school, but where you have presumably not in their programming courses and, you know, are we encouraging women into those programming courses? And then how are the women treated by a the teacher and be their fellow students who probably are mostly male once they’re in the course? You know, where they there’s there’s like, belittling and ridiculing of marginalizing or they really, you know, part of the class meaningful e well, uh, that all of those things that you described and certainly happen, i think, there’s constructive steps that institutions can take to facilitate on reach out to young women who want to be interested in this type of work. There’s actually, i should say there’s a wonderful organization right now called girls who code, which is a founded by another overland alumna. Ah, that’s. Trying to address some of these gaps, i think that a lot of interesting entrepreneurial solutions to the problem are are underway. Aah! The institutions that i really care about and want to draw more women into the profession, which i think is absolutely necessary. You’re totally right that, you know, if you have these opportunities early up, as you’re bringing women through their early stages of education, it really sets the stage for future development on a much greater level. S o i along the lines of what tracy had said earlier, there’s so many resources out there. I could name a few that’s one women who code is one yeah, and there’s plenty of others, i think. There’s thie, anita borg institute for women and computer science and general. Slower, sure and need a borg institute for yeah, georgie for women who are interested in in coding in computer science. There’s. Plenty out there that there’s more than i could list in the course of aa program. Okay, if i could jump in for a second, i think they’re a couple things to think and to keep in mind one is that computer science courses in college or university are really only one path to a career in technology, you know, i think most of us who end up being technologists in the nonprofit sector come at it from an interest in non-profits primarily and, you know, whatever the mission is the particular organization and frequently come at it from being, you know, a junior staffer in communications or in marketing or a program or something along those lines. So it’s not necessarily women who went into it thinking i’m going to have a career and technology, maybe women thinking i’m going to have a career in marketing and sort of develop opportunities and see that they have an innate talent, but on the on the coding side of things, in terms of actually developing programmers, the organization rose mentioned is wonderful. Andi think part of what that’s trying to combat, and maybe this is sort of getting out a little bit of your question about the university campuses in the developer world, certainly in the in the start up world there’s a culture of kind of programmers. You don’t know if you’ve heard that term, but it’s, you know, bro bro sam, i haven’t so you know programmers and you know, they’re they’re they’re all guys and, you know, that is in the midst of changing, but breaking into that culture is tough, and organizations like girls who code are really working on that, i think a lot of people there seeing that women are, you know, clearly as active as as men at programming and certainly on the strategic side of things, but we still have a ways to go all right turn, i think, you know, to this goes back also in a way, to the question of mentor ship on the question of, like, who’s ahead of me and what do i see them doing, andi? And because, you know, when we were putting together this workshop, we all realize that all of us have had really strong male role models in our life. I mean, like, we’re like, wow, you know, we can name all these great men who were role models to us and, you know, it kind of there was this moment of, like, a collective like, ah, you know, and, you know, we don’t want that to happen for the next generation of women moving forward on dh, you know? That’s not to take away from the mentor ship that we’ve all received from strong male role models, but it is to say that men and women fundamentally the way that we communicate, even if it’s the same things said in the same way they’re received two different manners, they’re perceived two different ways and the same communication from a guy that’s like, you know, looked out his mavericky and looked at is like a trail blazer and a creative thinker looks at, you know, a woman saying the same stuff is often interpreted as, you know, someone who is unreliable and has fundamentally ill founded principles. So i was thinking pushy or noxious, assertive and aggressive, bossy, even boston leven well, i have another p word let’s just say i mean, she’s a real bitch. Yeah, yeah, and i mean, i will tell you that i have progressed to appoint my own career, where i’m managing people, and to this day i am haunted by that word because i will look at my which work the b word, you know, and i will literally chat over to a coworker him, i’m not coming across too much of, you know? During the course of this conversation because, you know, being conscious of that means understanding that, you know, being a guy, you know, being one of the broads is not gonna work for us, and they still call it the guy for a reason exactly, and, you know, we’re not going to get a head in that way, so you know, this is part of starting a conversation of how are we going to get ahead in a way that’s different and understands the context in which we’re working? Tracy, i want to stay with you just to pursue the the question of what women can do for others, the women who are in leadership roles, aside from offering mentorships and making conscious decisions, is there more than female leaders who who have that empowerment can can convey it down? You know, i can share from my own personal experience that i have had some very powerful women ahead of me in my career at various institutions that i’ve worked with and the trap that i felt they fell into that i have tried very strongly to resist for myself is now that i’m here being completely possessive of my power and authority as that person in that role has been advanced that far, i think any woman ahead of us in our careers, who’s proceeded to the point of things like vice president, director, founder principle it’s really easy because of the context in which we work to say, this is mine and all mine, you know, i have made this this moment in my career and, you know, any woman who’s coming up behind me is a threat to that because she might be doing something different or she might be doing something better. And i think, you know, for women who have advanced to a certain point in their careers, it’s not about saying what i accomplished it’s about saying, what are the women behind me doing that can inform their own achievement that i can highlight using that power using that established role that i’ve achieved to advance their own careers? So in some ways, that’s beyond mentor ship it’s actually calling out the context of saying, yeah, you know, like, i’m i’m confident in my role as you know, vice president or founder or prince civil or president and look at this other woman look at her achievements, look at how she is doing this work this way and, you know, focus that attention on her next because i don’t obviously need to prove myself because i’ve already been here and i think that’s a trap that we fall into a lot is saying i have to continually prove myself, even though i have that title on my door that says vice president or director or principal or founder are present good if i can just for a second, you know, i think in terms of asking what we can do for for others, it’s it’s not only a matter of doing for others within your own organisation, one of the big takeaway is that we want people to have from our our session and from ongoing conversations is the opportunity of network with each other, you know, so it doesn’t necessarily. You may not have somebody in your organization who can be that mentor or who can serve as that type of role model. Work with your peers, talk to your peers, their ways to either structured or unstructured pierre mentor each other. There are a lot of younger women who are sort of coming up through the ranks and there’s a great opportunity that creates a community, create some networking opportunities, help each other, figure out career paths, help each other ask for things, help each other get mentor ship s o i think even without having that that strong or, you know, senior level woman within your organization, there’s still lots of opportunities for us to help each other. And we have to we have to wrap up a rose. Please. I would just also add if you’re currently a woman and technology in a leadership position to be more visible. And if you are also coming up through the ranks, consider actually presenting on this topic. Last night i spoke with a woman at ntc. Very young woman, very smart. Who said, you know, i think i want to present a session next year said absolutely do it. If you want to find ah partner to present with your going tto learn so much in the process and you can keep that dialogue going. Thank you very much, ladies. Really real pleasure and important that it’s an outstanding topic and a rare one too. But but increasingly that’s that’s falling away. And it’s becoming more common dahna goldstein, founder and ceo of philantech rose defremery founder and ceo of lower case d consulting and tracy kronzak consulting manager, recently promoted at cloud for good ladies. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Pleasure. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference ntc twenty fourteen, thanks so much for being with us. My thanks to everybody at non-profit technology conference and and and ten, you know, generosity siri’s they host multi charity peer-to-peer five k runs and walks multi charity means that you can have an event with a small number of runners because together with a bunch of other charities, turns into many hundreds of runners and walkers. So if you’re using summer to plan for your fall fund-raising or if somehow you think that a five k run walk fits into your fund-raising i hope you will talk to dave lynn he’s, the ceo at generosity siri’s they have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia and toronto. You’ll find ah, dave lynn at seven one, eight five o six nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com but you know, i prefer to pick up the phone and talk? Make sure you tell him that you’re from non-profit radio i pulled a video off youtube and put it on tony martignetti dot com this week. It’s a taste of non-profit radio two minute sampler with seth godin craig newmark, the founder of craigslist, and craigconnects charles best ceo of donors choose dot org’s, mark echo from echo enterprises, and several other people are in that sampler. Of course, the full interviews with each of them are on youtube, and again, the sampler is that tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, fifteenth of august thirty second show of this year. Amy sample ward you know her she’s, the ceo of non-profit technology network and her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere her blog’s, amy sample war dot or ge and she’s at amy rs ward on twitter, pay me sample word hi, how are you? I’m doing terrific ly while how are you? Good, good. I don’t know how it’s august but i’m fine other than the incredibly swift passing of time. Yes, i know thirty second show of the year already. Holy cow and god, yes. And mid august already? I know, but are you enjoying your summer? Yeah, i it feels like a vacation because i haven’t had to travel since the middle of june. So many people travel during summer and it is their vacation. But for me, it’s been a wonderful vacation of staying at home and having plans locally. Excellent way. Enjoy our summers, each of us, the way the way we like that’s. Very good. Portland summer in portland is the place to be so it’s hard it’s. Hard to leave when it’s the most perfect time of year here. Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, i got a visit. You out there sometime. I gotta come to oregon. I’ve never been to oregon. Um, i know, i know, but i want to go. I really do want to go pacific northwest. Absolutely. I want to wash. I’ll believe it when i see it. Okay. All right. What do you think this is what you think of this panel of three ladies from it’s? Great. You know, it’s really interesting. And something that we were reflecting on is a staff after the conference to was, you know, it’s, not a brand new conversation, talking about supporting different groups, different communities either in within the inten community, at larger or in the tech sector in the nonprofit sector. But what we’re reflecting on really is the way those conversations i have taken shape and changed over the years, and this last year really felt like this was the ntc where there were multiple formal sessions opportunities like you presented where you folks could come talk, talk to you and have their their stories and their ideas shared more broadly, but also a lot of kind of ad hoc meeting’s at lunch where they would say, everybody come to the table if you want to have this conversation or let’s meet, you know it at the reception tonight and so many conversations about how do we how do we do more to get more people like us or more people like you or more people that know how to do acts? You know, how do we get more people into this community? And i think that’s really exciting and really interesting that that it’s at a place where it doesn’t have to feel like, oh, this is kind of a controversial topic. You know, we’re gonna have to go over here in secret and have this conversation, but that it’s such an open, you know, we really want to create a space in this community that is inclusive and is welcoming, and part of that is creating a great community, but the other part is saying, we have to go out there and make those invitations, you know, you can’t just say, i want to have the best dinner party and make all the food if you haven’t invited anyone to come over, so so i’m excited that the community is kind of at that space where it’s ready to go out there, think about how we’re creating community in inside this space, but also go out and make introductions and invitations and welcome new people in cool. I’m glad so this feels like a watershed year for you and yeah, it’s exciting, and i think it really inspired a lot of staff to feel like they’re not the only ones, you know, getting to see that there’s opportunity to bring more people in, because, you know, staff when when we know that there’s so many community members out there, but we don’t see them because we’re just in the office. I think the ntc really inspire them and reminded them, you know, there are all of these people out there and we can invite more people in it’s going to be great instead of thinking that it’s kind of just, you know, tucked away in the office that’s outstanding, and i’m glad i was a part of it. You feel like it was water. You’re cool. Maybe you’ll have me back next year. Yeah, well, we’ll see. Yes. All right. I’ll see you when i e i’ll believe it when i see it. I believe that recently. So over there at ntc, you get a lot of enquiries about bringing people literally into your organization. Hiring who are technologists? Yes. Oh, so you have some advice around let’s? Start with the the job description. Yeah, i think you know, this is especially the question we get asked the most. You know, we know that we need someone to do manage all of our attacker to help us with our website. But that’s what? That’s what? All that we know. You know, we just know that we need somebody who knows more. Than we dio. So how do we write a job description or where do we even promote the job on dh? So obviously it kind of depends on what kind of job it is it’s a website versus maybe on it, director, managing all kinds of systems, et cetera, but there’s still some some basic steps that everybody can take, no matter what technical job they’re trying to fail, and first is to remember that you don’t necessarily need to know all of the jargon and the acronyms and the web two point oh, everything. What you do need to know very clearly is what your organization needs and what your goals are, who your audience is. You know, if you kind of try to make up for not knowing by filling, you know, job description with a bunch of technical terms, but you’ve never put in there, you know what? We really need our systems that can talk to each other, someone who doesn’t have that integration expertise is not going to apply, they’re not going to know that’s what you’re looking for. So knowing what your goals are, the kinds of tools that may be necessary to meet your mission knowing that and being very clear about that is going to serve you more than, you know, trying to do an internet search for a bunch of jargon. Ok, so so that that’s the first caveat reminder on dh then also, before you start putting that job description together, there’s a great opportunity to talk to everyone inside the organization pull in from from what they know in their own job, you know, what do they need? What what tools are they using that they think need to be updated or and this is not like, oh, there’s, you know, so and so, who just personally doesn’t like this one tool we use not a preference kind of, uh, list, but here’s something that’s really stopping me in my work, you know, here’s something that isn’t serving me to do my job and create a bit of an internal needs versus wants assessment because when you look at that and you can say, will hear things that may be a bunch staff want, but they’re not the priority items of this, you know, kind of three or four things on our really critical needs list that’ll help you. Decide howto prioritize things both on the job description and when you’re looking at applicants. So if you see someone has, you know, a really great experience but saying their most experienced in isn’t on that needs list, you know, it’s it’s like, wow, that’s, greatest really cool project you did once, but not what we’re looking for. It’ll help you feel like you’re not just getting kind of dazzled by all of the shiny things on their resume, but you know what to look for, at least what? To prioritize a cz faras they’re experience or specific skills. All right, so a lot of the information that you need you already have. You just gotta start a conversation inside. Exactly. Okay? Okay. Ah, what? Anything else for the aa for putting together the job description? Well, another thing that i would suggest and it’s not going to be perfect. Of course you’re still going to want to edit it and make sure it’s, you know, meets your needs is an organization. But i’ve seen very few jobs that i have never been, you know, hired for before there’s very few times where someone has posted a job and i thought, wow, i’ve never seen a job like that, you know, i never in my life. So so knowing that you probably could go to, you know, idealist dot org’s look where there are millions of job postings for nonprofit organizations and look for a job, title or job description similar to what you’re looking for and just see how other organizations have explained that or how they’ve kind of structured some of the, you know, needs and an experience pieces there’s probably many examples out there just to get you started, especially with, you know, that fear of had i don’t wantto say this the wrong way, etcetera. You know, it occurs to me this could all apply if you were hiring ah, consultant as well, yes, i was only thinking of, you know, i was only thinking of the employees, but certainly ah, it all applies on the in that respect to consulting. Yeah. And i would even say, um, it applies when you’re bringing in, uh, like i contract id. You know, someone on an r f way. Wantto, you know, designer to dio this project or we want to bring in, you know, an organization? An agency to kind of help us with this campaign, like even those kind of larger than one individual consultant, but still outsourced project still using a process like this because if you can tell them nothing but what you want to dio teo to meet your goals, then you will have at least serve yourself well, instead of trying to anticipate all the things that they might be thinking, you know, you’re hiring either the staff person or this contractor, this consultant because they know more than you on those topics, so let them no more than you on those topics and really be clear about why you want to do those projects, why you need them to do this work anything else around the job description or i think we should move to starting to interview people. Yeah, let’s, start interviewing people. Let’s go. All right, so we’ve got these resumes, and of course, we’re now scanning them based on what our needs are making sure that we’re not we’re not getting attracted by shiny things on resumes that have no relevance to what we’re trying to do and what we’re trying to achieve. Um, okay, we were bringing people in and they’re a lot smarter than us about, about the things that we’re trying to hire them for, yes, we’re gonna do so i’ve seen a few different, uh, tactics work well for organizations that really depends on your comfort level, i think, but remembering, of course, that most often or organizations are kind of small enough that the person they’re hiring, whether it’s, a web person or a night person, etcetera isn’t reporting to another technical person, you know, they’re still going to report to maybe the executive director so not feeling that that person has to kind of opt out of the interview process because they don’t know the language again, they do know what all this work is going towards on, so they still should be a part of this interview process, especially the the manager, whoever that will be. But i would also encourage people to participate in that interview that art are probably not technical, but will rely on this person, you know, ensuring their systems their great, the development or fund-raising manager is often a great person because they maybe our technical, maybe not, but in many organizations they’re the one’s touching. The database the most and if you’re hiring a technical person who, you know, maintaining that data basically part of their job again, they might not be the most technical person on staff, but they probably have a deep investment in this tool, working well for them so that they can do their job. So bringing those people in that really care that the tools work well will help in the interview process because, again, even if they don’t know the language, they will be able to test out what it’s like to talk to this person they would be working with, and if they feel like, you know, they can talk to each other, even if in different languages and still get their points across it’s much better to figure that out and kind of have a feel for what? Talking and working with each other would be like in the interview process than it would be, you know, on day one when they’ve hired, and they’re just getting to meet and realize they can’t talk to each other right versus the she’s kind of condescending to me or, you know, right doesn’t really get me and yes, because you are going to be talking day to day once the hyre is made. So how does the person translate what they know the brilliance that they have in there in their niche of technology to the rest of us who were going to be using this technology and hoping it’s all going it’s all gonna come together and talk to each other? Exactly. And i like that you use the word translate because i was also going to make a suggestion kind of the other side that i’ve seen folks take in the interviewing process is to find someone that’s kind of a translator or ah, liaison. So reaching out either to a local non-technical group, you know, look, look on meet up, there’s. Probably a ton of groups in your city, whether it’s a non-profit tech related group or just, you know, maybe if it’s ah, web person you’re hiring for and you know that you use droop a ll contacting the local grouper droop a ll user group on dh just saying, hey, we’re hiring someone we would love it if we could spend ten minutes on the phone, you know, i was a volunteer from the group just to help us make sure we have the best questions for this interview, and that way, you kind of bounce the questions that you want to ask, you know, shared the intention of the question and had someone who isn’t. They have no, you, no stake in the game. They’re not applying for the job. They are not part of your organization, that they can say, you know, that’s, probably not the best way to ask it. Or, you know, if i was doing this, i would say it this way so that you feel confident going in your questions, meet your needs, and we’ll speak to this kind of technical component. We gotta go out for a way to go out for a break. And, amy, when we come back, we’ll keep talking about maybe testing and and some onboarding we’ll get that in just a couple of minutes. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Treyz. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oppcoll all right, amy, where? Ah, we’re past the interview stage and ah, we want to well, yeah, we’ve we’ve decided that we want to move forward with a couple of candidates and, uh, test their skills. How are we going to do this? Well, there are a few different options i’ve seen organizations who, when they’ve kind of brought on that translator to discuss, you know, what air the best interview questions that we could craft for our specific a job and organization that they’ve also said, are there some tests that could go with some of these questions or, you know, ways that you would suggest we do this and they get it? It really depends on kind of the suite of skills you’re looking for, but i’ve also seen organizations really successfully say cash, we have this board of directors and a couple of them, you know, workin in larger organizations that have an hr department. Could we ask you to tap your hr department and see if they have a standard set of questions or a standard? You know, couples sets of tests that they’ve used in hiring on dh we can modify those and that way. You know, it’s been used towards success before on dh most, you know, most boardmember zehr happy to say, sure. My h r department will share some of that. Are these are these written tests are online tests. Have you seen i’ve? I’ve seen things where it’s online. It would be usually directly following the interview. So we’ve had the interview. You know, we’ve all been at the table talking, and now, you know, way have ah, laptop set up with this page. And can you, you know, walk us through how you would? Okay, as part of you know, okay, it’s, part of an interview. Yeah, okay. And and that so i would say, even if you don’t have a kind of technical components test, you know, tio assess that side of the skills. One of the most i would i would say important test to include in that interview process is to have identified from your staff what staff consider to be, like, emergency all hands on deck with a technical issue. So for many organizations, that means, you know, it’s, our end of year fund-raising campaign. And the donation page is not working, you know? Donate now. Button isn’t working, we just sent out an e mail to ten thousand people and donate now doesn’t work that’s like critical all hands on deck. This is an emergency, and so in the interview, actually sharing, you know, this would be an emergency tow us on dh staff would would be communicating in-kind of a crisis mode style walk us through if you came into the office that morning, you know, you walked in the door and a bunch of staff were right there and said, oh, my gosh, the donation pages down the donate now button isn’t working. You have to get this fixed right away. What would you d’oh? And if you have a candidate for your job, you know, start coming back with very technical language, even in the interview, you can anticipate that’s how they’re going, you know, talk in that moment and if staff immediately feel like, well, i’m not getting information, i need him, i’m still frustrated, i’m still in crisis mode, i don’t know what’s happening, you know, it’s probably a good measure of what it would be like if instead they’re saying, great, this is exactly what we’re going to dio this is how long it’s going to take, you know, this is when we’re going to be able to know if it’s thick and people feel like, okay, i know what’s happening, even if i can’t fix it, someone is fixing it and it’s going to be okay, you know, it’s it’s an easier way to deal in that actual crisis and maybe a better way to talk through kind of a test quote unquote, in an interview without having to set up non-technical, you know, actual demonstration, okay? You said there were a couple of ways of going about this any any others? Is that it? Is that it? Okay, so let’s say those were probably the most frequent that i see they’re, you know, talking through a situation or including something technical, you know, actually showing them some systems and seeing if they i would say looking that the systems is i’ve at least seen it happen more often when organizations have a little bit more of a custom set up, you know, they’ve done a lot, teo modify their database or they’ve got a website kind of cms that custom to them, and they want to see you know, hey, you probably not seen this before because it’s kind of our set up, why don’t you poke around and let’s see how it goes? We just have about a minute and a half left for for onboarding you have some advice about bringing somebody in? Yeah, i think that there’s this sometimes organizations have this feeling that they’ve hired this technical person because they’re totally different than everyone else, and they’re just going to go sit at their desk and be technical and somehow do everything all by themselves. But ultimately what that means is they’ve never been oriented to what everyone does and why they do it and why they need to be maintaining these systems the way they are. So i would say, onboarding needs to really focus on including this new technical hyre in all kinds of team meetings, campaign meetings, anywhere where they can really be exposed to the way folks, we’re talking about the tools they used, and they’re able tto learn oh, that people don’t know that we could really set up, you know, the database to do that report for them. I can i can help here so they feel. Like they’re a contributing part of the team and not just someone kind of keeping everything running in the background, we’re going to leave it there. Amy, thank you very, very much awesome, thanks so much for my pleasure. Amy sample ward dot org’s is her sight. And on twitter at amy r s ward, she’ll be back next month. Don’t worry next week we have two more interviews from ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference. I have a ton of great guests from there. I’m going to pick two more for next week. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com small and midsize shops remember generosity siri’s seven one eight five o six, nine, triple seven or generosity siri’s, dot com our creative producers claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules are music is by scott stein of brooklyn you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. Yeah. They couldn’t do anything, including getting dink dink, dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get a drink. Nothing. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com you’re listening to talking on turn their network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking.

Nonprofit Radio, November 18, 2011: Your IT Plan & The Goods on Google+ Pages

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Jason Hutchins

Jason Hutchins: Your IT Plan

Jason Hutchins, president of Nonprofit Solutions, tells you why you need an IT plan and what belongs in it. He’ll get you thinking about budget, equipment, outsourcing, the cloud and a lot more, so you avoid an IT crisis.

Please take a moment to take the survey for this week’s segment with Jason! You’ll find it here at the end of the guest and segment descriptions. Thanks!
 

Scott Koegler
Scott Koegler: Your Mobile Website

Our tech contributor, Scott Koegler, the editor of Nonprofit Technology News, kicks the tires on the recently released Google+ Pages for organizations. Should you take one for a test drive? How are they different than Facebook pages? How do you interact with supporters? What’s the mileage on these babies?
 

 


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