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Nonprofit Radio for July 29, 2016: 300th Show!

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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My Guests:

Claire Meyerhoff, Scott Stein, Maria Semple, Gene Takagi, Amy Sample Ward: 300th Show!

It’s the 6th anniversary of Nonprofit Radio! We’ve got live music, giveaways, Nonprofit Radio Fact or Fiction, impressive show announcements and all the familiar guests. Claire Meyerhoff our creative producer co-hosts. With us are theme song composer Scott Stein with his “traveling 88” and our savvy contributors Maria Semple (prospect research); Gene Takagi (law); and Amy Sample Ward (social media). It’s a blowout! It’s an extravaganza! It’s our 300th show!

Catch us on Periscope on Friday at 1:00 eastern! Follow @tonymartignetti

Many thanks to Cura Coffee and The Nonprofit Times, our giveaway sponsors!

 

 


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Hello, martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. You hear that? Live music. That means it’s, our three hundredth show. Scott stein. We got lots of live, more music, more live music coming up. We have a listener of the geek lauren wilkerson she’s at fit underscore fund-raising she first tweeted me that she’s been a podcast subscriber for awhile and loves it. Although lauren, you spelled my name teo and i please get that straight is why at the end when i told her that she’s our listener of the week, she said she’s geeking out so i dubbed her listen er of the gate and she tweeted back, geeky is the new sexy she sent nice tweeted a nice picture with those black bcd you know those birth control device classes and saying that geek is that geek is the new sexy. So she is our listener of the geek she’s lauren whisker seuin congratulations, lauren, our very first listen to the game. Cool. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into press oh, pota, please jia! If i had to face the idea that you missed today’s show it’s the sixth anniversary of non-profit radio, we’ve got more live music giveaways, non-profit radio fact or fiction, impressive show announcements and all the familiar guests clear myer half our creative producer cohosts with us are the theme song composer scotty stein, who he already heard from and he’s traveling eighty eight. We’re going to hear a lot more music from scott are savvy contributors are calling in maria simple on prospect research. Jean takagi are brilliant and now award winning lawyer and any sample ward our social media ceo it’s a blowout it’s extravaganza it’s our three hundred show that’s claire meyerhoff that’s name we are we’re on periscope way don’t start periscope oh no where’s our periscope corey okay, we’re going to be on periscope very shortly. We didn’t start where’s our periscope cable sam um if you have the app, then i’m at tony martignetti and also on twitter. Of course we’re live tweeting the show today so check check that use the hashtag non-profit radio wanna give a shout? Out. And thanks to cure a coffee and the non-profit times they are our giveaway sponsors on tony’s take two. You know, i just i got to say thank you. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. You’ll raise more money pursuant dot com. And by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com and we be spelling. Where the heck did that come from? That’s? One of the cool announcements. Our newest sponsor is spelling bees for charities. We’d be spelling dot com. We’re going to talk to the ceo. He’s going to be calling in alex’s career. Explain why we be spelling is perfect for non-profit radio listeners krauz meyerhoff. Welcome back to new york city. Thank you, tony. Martignetti, it is great to be here. It’s. A pleasure to have you co hosting. You gotta hold your mike because it fell off the stand. Well, you know, sometimes you have to go old school. You are, you’re improvised, and we gotta get our get our periscope feed going. I just plug this in. Sam. Okay, okay. I’ll try to do that, huh? Well, i also welcome scott. Stein okay, sign doesn’t have a mic. Regrettably wasn’t do yell. Doesn’t quite have a mic, but he’s here and okay, so you have that? Here we are. Cool. There’s scott star he’s got a mike? Yes. Thanks for having me. Well, it’s a pleasure. You were here for the two hundredth last year. You couldn’t make it. So we had a pre recorded segment of you right in my apartment. We did it from your apartment, your studio in your apartment. And this year, fortunately, you can make kitt on dh. You’re live, and we’re going to course be playing cheap red wine. Yes. Yes, we are. And you got a piece coming up from your new album. Yes, indeed. All right. We’re going to a chance to talk about all that clear meyerhoff what’s going on with you and the plant e-giving agency. Well, i’ve recently incorporated. I’ve grown my business. I have a great new website pg agency dot com and i’ve brought on a partner. Business partner diana grows from the national wildlife federation. She’s a ah, millennial she’s a younger person shows she knows a lot of stuff that i don’t know and i know stuff she doesn’t know, so you are a great combination and we’re helping all kinds of non-profits with their philanthropy, communications and their plan giving marketing and just basically helping them with a wide range of communication needs, the good half are the pg agency dot com it’s pg agency dot just pg agent don t agency dot com we have a special paige pg agency. Dot com slash tony three hundred and for anyone who wants a phone consultation, which we have ah fee for a very reasonable fee, we have a discount for you, so give us a tap there on pg agency. Dot com slash tony three hundred cool you arranged a discount for not property listening but described your property respond? The website is new, right website is new. We’ve got all kinds of great content on there about some strategies you probably haven’t even thought about that most people don’t think about for their plan giving marketing so it’s not the same old, same old plan giving marketing and, of course, in addition to those weighty responsibilities at the plant giving agency, you’re non-profit radios, creative director i am non-profit radios creative director when tony i met tony years ago when he was starting the show and he’s like, can i? Can i help you? Can you help me start the show? And i’m like, sure, and so i showed him how to make, like, a clock, you know? So the u do you know, certain things that certain times and and and guest schedules and things and he’s using all that to this day, i’ve seen your many your files full of them? Absolutely dunaj job i do you and that wasn’t just a few years ago. That was actually your six years ago. Like almost to the day it was it was a was a very auspicious july day in two thousand ten, and we gotta ruth, chris steakhouse or some somewhere like that. I think it went great. Papaya, gray’s, papaya. We get a cheap, hot dog. No, it was in north korea was in care o in cary, north carolina. We did. We did to organize things that’s right? Would you, uh, why don’t you and scot chat a little bit? Because i got to get our periscope feed started. Dahna you know what? You know each other? He’s got a new album and she’s got a new website got talking about you have a new album tell us a little bit about your new new album. Sure, it’s called traveling companion on dh it’s going to be widely available next month. I’m gonna be going on tour, hitting some spots in pennsylvania, being lancaster and pittsburgh and my hometown of akron, ohio. Now we’re going to a cd release show here in the city on september twenty first rockwood music hall s oh yeah, traveling companions knew record i’m very, very excited for people to hear this the first single which i think we’re going to play later, is already out. You khun get that on band camp and get down on my website on scott at scott’s buy-in music dot com and yeah, i can’t wait for people to hear the whole thing that’s wonderful. So how long did it take you to complete this? This album we started recording back and january or february on dh. The initial plan was to knock it out in about two weeks and then slowed down a little bit and so down a little more, and what we found was, you know, what this we felt really strongly about this, this collection of songs, me and and the guys i’m working with, and we just felt like it’s worth it to take our time and get this thing right, and i’m just really glad that we did it. It was the right decision. So tell us about a couple of the other songs on the album. Um, well, i could tell you in general that i think the album touches on a number of themes, including, i think, sort of moving up and moving forward, you know, it’s a lot of recollections of things that i did maybe in my first years in new york as a twenty something and growing in to a thirty something who is now married and ah, homeowner and things that feel very adult and so that’s. So that’s, i think the theme of the record, we’re going to we’re going to a quick give away oh, great, you got the periscope feed going? So if you have the periscope app, check me out to follow me at tony martignetti and you can join us on periscope and i guess, well, i’m talking, maybe i should turn. It around there we go. Cool. Okay. And we’re going to go. We got to give away. This is for is going out to katie benson she’s at katie be underscore nc and she tweeted our three hundred show she’s a mom volunteer consultant to non-profits c f r ee fundraiser jargon jail that’s a certified fund-raising executive and she says she’s funny, we have to check that, but i have no reason to doubt her. I mean, why? Why running by lie in a twitter profile? Of course, right, claire? No, of course it doesn’t. It doesn’t happen. It doesn’t have never. Okay, but she’s she’s a listener so she’s an honest person. Katie benson, we have a bag of cura coffee coming your way. And claire, why don’t you? Don’t you actually tell us a little about cura? Well, cure coffee directly connects coffee lovers with farmers and families who harvest the finest organic coffee beans. So with every cup of cura, you join our effort to expand sustainable dental care to remote communities around the world and curious direct trade coffee company with direct impact. It’s brought directly to you, creating organic smiles beyond the cup and you can find them at cura coffee, dot com that’s, cura coffee, dot com delicious coffee and and ah, very important social mission and very important dental care to low income, really coffee farmers and their communities. It’s our two favorite things non-profits and coffee and we love cure. Thank you. Okay, we’re gonna go out for a for a, uh we got a first break. We’ve gotta take a break. And when we come back, we’ve got tons. We got cheap red wine coming up. We’ve got another song from scottie’s new album. Uh, we got all the all the regular contributors calling in. We got more giveaways, we have non-profit radio fact or fiction stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Claire meyerhoff maybe you could hold the mic for him so that because we’re going, we’re going to do a little. We’re gonna get the full version cheap red wine. So as we figure out the studio configuration, um, yeah, exactly. Exactly. That was not cheap red wine, but that was our that was scotty with his traveling eighty eight. And maybe if you take that mic flag off, maybe it’ll work better. Um, cheap red wine just struck me as a perfect song. I just love the instrumental it’s been our theme song for probably three years now or so roughly you you hear it at the opening of every every show. We come back from commercials. Of course we close with it. And ah, scott stein is the composer and it’s all legal it’s all license and everything. This is certainly not a bootleg. Okay, scott stein, appreciate that high. Okay, you’re you’re good there. We’re going to get cool, okay? Just before we play it, tell us what’s the what’s, the story of cheap red wine, i think it’s ah, sort of. Ah, recollection of being new to new york and ah, being a musician in a neighborhood in which it was a lot of people who work in law and finance. In fact, i remember, i went to aa a dinner of some sort dinner party, and someone very new york ish came up and said, so do you work in law finance? And i said neither, and she thought, well, then, i must be a doctor, you know? And then i had to explain that i know freshly musician, doctor, doctor, lawyer or doctor. Yeah, so here i am, him shoretz places. I don’t know if we need that is unimportant. No, we’re good without okay. Ah, yeah, so that’s, what the song is about. The song goes back in number eight years, and i love this song, but, yeah, i’m so glad it has found a home here, and i appreciate you using it. All right. Here we go. Wait, you just keep on talking sooner or later, i think you’re out just what you mean. You seeking romantic advice from a bill. What i’m looking for answers up on a tv screen way can agree on nothing way, get tell our ups from my down, wait. Disappointed in each other now, timid baby ate this love with me. I found you know you used to find a charming, but i can’t figure out how and you said, you thought i was handsome, but it doesn’t matter now. So game fallen for my punch lines, as long as your time will allow, because i’ve gotta read me promises about laci bread awhile on and now. You know, some girls just living diamonds, they want type of that kind of clothing that i wear well, i’m to put over for the good stuff in your too easily distracted to care way ain’t got too many options, and so i’m going to do the best that i can wait, do you have some competition when day, when i’m a well, the your man, you know, you used to find me charming, but i can’t figure out how and he said, you thought i was handsome, but it doesn’t matter now, so get falling for my punch lines as long as your time will allow it. I gotta wrap your promises of biology bradrick red wine and wait well, baby, literally glasses take a drink better daisy of a people can kiss houses and they don’t like the things you say and i again because the heavens no i want flashing up into signs were perfect for each other’s along with nobody else it’s in my nobody’s winning way wait hyre hey, you know, you used to find me charming, but i can’t figure out how you said your father was handsome, never mind don’t matter now, so get falling from a punch on his lungs. Your time will allow. So i’ve gotta empty promises about a cheap one. Wait! Neo-sage wait. Well, i love that song. Thank you, scottie. Alright, think. Love that song. I love that song. All right, we’re gonna turn in. Thank you. Thank you. And we got more from scott coming up. He’s going to play something from his new album, traveling companions shortly is gonna play out in the second half. And while well, scott and ah, and claire share mikes on dh get themselves together than there’s, not there’s. No. You know, it’s totally transparent. Here we exercise. What? All our guests a total transparency. Nothing happening behind the scenes that you’re not aware of, um, because in a moment, claire and i are going to play little non-profit radio fact or fiction. Wait, marie on the line. We do. We got maria simple online. Okay, i’ll tell you what, let’s, talk to maria. Simple and they will do is fact or fiction. Maria simple. How are you? I’m doing well, thanks. How about you congratulate? I’m doing great. I look, i’m congratulating myself and you were doing great. But you can’t you tell? Well, i’m delighted to be here and congratulations to everybody there. Thank you. Thank you very much. Six long years and although it seems like seems like six months, i mean, the time cruises by but maria semple, i’m just very grateful to you on our show. I don’t know how many years you’ve been on three years, right? And, uh, every month talking about prospect research, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So i’m delighted to be here and sharing my tips when i can. Thank you, it’s. Absolute pleasure. Now i’m glad you you emerged relatively unscathed from recent little traffic accident you had you’re now listeners know you’re a boater. Listeners know that you have a sailboat you probably should have. Maybe she’d been boating when when this happened. Actually, i was on route to go to do that, but i never made it there. Ok? Oh, so was boating. Okay, well, i’m glad that it wasn’t a big deal for you and glad everything’s a okay. And i guess the waterways they’re safer than the roadways. Yes, they sure are. Well, you know, so it’s a good a good news. Bad news situation. Good news is ah, my husband and i survived. The bad news is the cars completely totalled? One of your prius is you have multiple priuses, right? I d’oh. Okay. Okay, well, you’ll get a brand new one from the insurance company. Well, yeah, we’ll see posting of that? Our work, our sticks, the sailboats and ah, we’ll be talking to you very soon because you’re on every single month. Love it, that’s. Right. Okay, well, listen, i hope you’re all having a great party there. I know you’ve got all the other regulars calling in and, uh, you know, i think it’s some point, you know, i was thinking about this as i was listening to the red wine song. Tony, it be really fun if you got all the regulars together in manhattan for a bottle of cheap red wine, i see. Ok? And i presumed that would be a non-profit radio expense. Well, that’s that’s. The whole cheap red wine piece, the cheaper. Yeah, but i gotta fly gene in from san francisco. I gotta fly. Amy. And from portland, oregon. I gotta bring claire miree often from north carolina. You from new jersey. You’re the you’re the cheap date your accuser train ride, but okay. Okay. What do you call me? The queen of no dia. Diane of dirt. Cheap and free, because he always got free and cheap resources for us. That’s, right, you are dyin okay, all right, thank you, maria. Simple, cool. I hope you all have a great party there. Thank you very much. All right, we’ll talk soon. Bye. Maria abi. Mr cem non-profit radio factor fiction. Claire crime. I hope i’m ready. And i know you feel how you feel. Okay? It’s ah. Okay. I did. Did a guest. Oh, i’m not going to play the clip because the radio, the phone has periscope on it, so i won’t be able to play our heart attack clip. We’ll have to describe it. I’ll have to describe it. Dahna did. Did a guest almost have a heart attack on non-profit radio? I think it kind of gave away the answer right there. We’ll just sort of it. I guess it probably didn’t happen. Yeah, it was dennis miller on dh. Hey, was he was, you know, there’s miller? Oh, the comedian? No, not the committee. This one is he’s. A little it’s a little bigger than the dennis miller that most people know and he ran from i think you ran from the subway. He had a heart attack? No, he almost he came close. He was breathing. He was breathing very hard. He was huffing and puffing. Onda had a clip for you know, but i didn’t realize require any any assistance? No, no, no, it is there an i e d here in the studio. Sam, there was not a good thing. We didn’t need the no, he was fine. And he persevered and was out for the hour. It was cool. That’s. Good. So he was. He was he was a okay, um, let’s. See, um, did i interview a cab driver ever? Um, i think that’s fiction dahna it’s actually it’s close enough to be a fact. I’m sorry i came close. I interviewed that was, uh that was derek feldman, and he was in a cab at the lincoln tunnel when we started, which is not very close to here. That was a good ten twelve minute cab ride before he actually made it to the studio. That’s pretty far on. Guy tried to get him. I tried to get the cabby on the air, but he doesn’t have a sack guard, so he wasn’t allowed to do it right. He doesn’t sets a requirement here. No, it’s, because what? I understand, you’re all upset cards. This is i actually did this bonified you do? Your tough man after saying radio what’s your radio background, you been on washington? I worked. I worked for an abc radio cluster in d c doing doing news and traffic hour for exams, satellite radio at the very beginning days of satellite radios, they’re in the launch of the x m except, um, satellite room in d c in two thousand one. We launched on september tenth, two thousand and one. Okay, so the next day was september eleven, two thousand one. We weren’t prepared for that, and we’re also i worked. I worked. I worked for cnn. I worked for the d c bureau of cnn, a za news writer and sometime reporter at worked for beauty. Oh, petey! Oh, petey! On the station in d c i was news reporter and sports anchor there on the weekends. Your weather girl. I’ve never been a weather you want, whether okay, sports argast i’ve read plenty of weather because when you do news like for an fm station in the morning, you do like a little bit of sports. A little bit of weather. I was like doing the weather. Three t o p it’s still going strong to your council being up here, it’s like two big deal is awesome. Yeah, great station, cool. I learned to it all the time. All right, let’s, try one more fact or fiction. Yes, one more. Um, has seth godin been on this show? I’m going to say that that’s a fact, that is a fact. Did i interview seth goat subpart a. Did i interview seth gordon? I don’t know, maybe did to tap dance, or or you interviewed him. I think you interviewed him. I didn’t do that interview. Seth gordon was on the show. In fact, it was our very first next-gen charity conference and was our very first remote first time we took non-profit radio remote, right? And seth cohen was one of the speakers, and it was here in the city, and i ran to an atm. I don’t member. Why? But i remember i went to an atm to get money. Yeah, why? I needed money. Why do i need money for the route as paying guests? Latto buy-in might i have a paper trail for my sag card? I guess. And when i left, seth gordon was available, so somebody else stepped in. That was our very first social media manager. Was regina walt? I know. I know. Regina, you know, regina, remember regina? And she was she was doing the room. She was in new york at the time, national in san francisco. But she jumped in and did that interview. So seth was on the show, but i didn’t interview. You’ve done quite a few remote ce. We were together one time in san antonio at the national plan getting conference. We did that’s, right? I forgot. We did that together. That’s, right? San antonio. I’m talking to them about being at the next one. You know, alice yes, in dallas now called and pcc, isn’t it? National? No. Nc p p national conference for philanthropic planning. And now they call it now. And speaking of which, i wantto let the listeners know that if you’re in fort worth, texas, i am going to be speaking in fort worth, texas, on september twentieth to the lone star chow chapter of the ppp. They’re bringing me down there to talk about legacy storytelling. So i’ll be in texas in september. The lone star chapter, the lone star chapter. Sounds like worth and west. Okay, it sounds like three people are going to show up. No lone star chapter because texas is a huge state. You know, i have heard rumors to that effect. Yes. It’s enough. You know, texas is the number two populated state after california. Really bigger than new york. I know. On people in new york, uncommonly known scottie give us fact that’s a fact that’s that is, uh, that is fact. Yes. Texas is the second most populated state after after california. Really? Yeah. Very interesting. All right, nasco you’re from midwest, you’re from ohio. I am akron, ohio. Indeed. Ok. You’re following the convention at all. That was in cleveland. Yeah, it’s an extent, you know, little. Okay, it’s kind of not necessary on doesn’t really matter what side of the island you’re on. You wanted to see that the city of cleveland and the region come across well and i think they did. I think they did in this job. It was obviously it’s it’s always a challenge. And i think that they were think they were up to it. Ok? The fact they had a little championship parade a couple of weeks earlier. Sort of help them prepare so that’s right? See, i’m not i’m still celebrating. You are cavaliers nb a championship n ba that’s basketball that’s baseball that’s baseball, basketball basketball’s basketball. Okay n ba that’s not basketball associate baseball season what’s the national baseball association that’s and there’ll be a major league baseball and then there’s the national league in the mlb for major league baseball. Okay, i’m not a big sports story, ok, nfl, you know that is the nfl i’m gonna put you in charge in jail for assault folly in the nhl. What’s the nhl hucksters. No, okay, i’m putting you in jargon, jail for both. For nhl, nfl, they grew up in new york, unknown terms to me, you so sports plain country, xero i’m not even gonna that’s, ok, thank you. I’ve heard of the met because my dad, we grew up in the met, so i know i know that they cause i’m nets, they definitely do field goals. They’re very good field goal. They were very good. Ditigal now they have a good free throw percentage. Sametz sametz cool. Sorry, kar exist. We should take a break and what we got coming up, we’ll wrap the break will do a giveaway. We got another giveaway coming up and ah, jean takagi is going to be on the line very soon. We got more music. We got more non-profit fact or fiction. Stay with us. Oh, okay. Sam says that we shouldn’t take a break right now. Okay, that we should do something different. All right, so in that case, we got ill. D’oh. Oh, i know what i’ll do. Okay? We should we should say that we’re grateful to the sponsors and yeah, that’s. Right. Take a minute of your, uh, carol marrow. If you’d be into this pursuing pursuing to the sponsor now they do. If fund-raising software right for non-profits like, you know, they help you stay time against goal for fund-raising managed tasks like when’s. My next phone call to this group of donors. What’s. Um, next milestone i gotta make for being on task and on goal. That’s, the plan giving agency. I mean, you do marketing communication. We do marketing communication, so we would. When i lived with a client, i would i would rely on them. And i would say, what sort of software do you have? And they might say, you know, if i’m lucky, they’ll say they have pursuing for something well, let’s look at some of the information in there and try to, you know, target some specific donors or, you know, there’s all kinds of good information that’s in there, if you know how to use it, and i think that’s important is that for company, you know, for pursuing, i’m sure they offer great customer support and trainings and things like that so you could make the most of the software that’s really, exactly in the most it’s dule, you gotta have the data, and you gotta have the marketing communications to tell those stories, right? That aaron, the data. Okay, you have to have good data in a good way to organize it, and with pursuant that that’s what they could do and, you know, get the most out your pursuit software. Don’t just learn like, the first two things like, you know, learn it all. Yeah. And there are pursuing dot com and, uh, tell you what uh little differently when i told alex career but we’re gonna bring alex career on he’s on the line because our our new this is another cool already. I divulged it earlier, but another cool announcement that we have and there’s another one coming up later too, involves california that’s all like that’s. All i am permitted to say at this time about that cool announcement, but this school announcement is that we be spelling is a brand new sponsor of non-profit radio. We’ll be spelling and alex greer, ceo is on the line. Alex welcome. Thank you, tony. How you doing? We’re doing great. Welcome. Thank you for being a sponsor. Thank you for having me on. Congratulations on the three hundred show, it’s. Very tough. Cool. Now we we’d be. We’d be spelling these air. Not your grandmother’s spelling bees, right? They’re not your grandmother’s spelling bees. They’re not your elementary school spelling bees. We had no idea two a kind of nostalgia that we all have of spelling bees. But combine it with some stuff that we love to do when we go out in new york city. Like like music like comedy, music, dance, write music, dance around, meet up with some new friends. Have a couple of drinks and play a really silly game, okay? And we make money for charities at the same time. We sure did. Right? We have. Ah, great. Yeah, we have a great fund-raising platform. The idea here was to create a ticket price that young people could afford so that they could come and join these events. It’s not a five hundred dollars gala it’s usually a twenty five dollars ticket to come in, but then we turned all the spellers into peer-to-peer fundraisers. So essentially, if you were running a marathon or five pay for charity, these people will participate in this killing me, okay? They’ll reach out to their network and say, hey, and you and get up on stage and might embarrass myself, but i’m doing provoc oppcoll right. And so this makes perfect sense for the small and midsize non-profits that are non-profit radio listeners? Absolutely. Yeah, we’ve had a lot of success with a mid sized non-profits engaging younger people and really activating their crew to come out, learn about the non-profit and have a great time while they’re doing it cool. Well, alex, i want to thank you very much for for being a sponsor of non-profit radio. Thank you. That’s. Really cool that that’s my pleasure and got loved the music. We should connect. It will get you that be fantastic. You’re both in brooklyn. Oh, scotty’s soon moving to brooklyn. Yes, and alex is in brooklyn now. Oh, cool. All right, well, then we’ll have tio have to connect that be great. Absolutely. Okay, he’s going to the next musician on cool on one of the wee bey spelling bee. Sounds good. Alright, alex. Alex men. Thank you very much for being a sponsor. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. And congratulations to get cool. Pleasure. Pleasure. All right, take it. Ah, let’s. Do tony’s take two when i just want to say gratitude and thanks to all the people who have made this show possible, you hear me recite them at the end of every show, including claire meyerhoff and scott stein. Get credit every show. But then there’s so well and soon chavez, she gets credit every show to she’s doing the live tweeting right now. Are we watching the hashtag non-profit radio? Sam, we are not okay. We’re watching the phone panel that’s important too? Just in. Case anybody live tweets besides susan she’s out there tweeting this show and but then there’s, you know, there’s, the behind the scenes guy mark silverman on, of course. There’s family what’s it. The board he’s credited every show. I’m staring at him at him and taking him for granted every single week. I’m doing it right this second. But he’s the one producing he’s, the one managing the live stream that’s. Why he’s managing the stream and a right to ask him to watch the sea. You telling me who’s listening live so i could do live listener love plus he’s watching the hash tag plus he’s watching the conference line pushes, watching the board pushes. Got to keyboards in front of him. The man is uncredited. We gotta turn this thing around. Where is this? Uh, here, sam. Here, sam. Dreadfully uncredited. There he is on periscope. All right. Very odd. Looking to see. I’m not blind to keyboards. Looking at multiple. Should have multiple screens. But there’s a screen is the man’s inundated with technology. It’s it’s. Amazing. He keeps this thing together. Scot’s done. Okay. This clip there, huh? Cool durney. Uh, let’s. Keep it on. There, meyerhoff, while i’m talking, is that bad things gets a mistake is a mistake. No. Okay, so all the people who have made six, three hundred shows possible six years, three hundred shows. It’s amazing. I am so grateful to this magnificent team. And of course, the team includes our three contributors who are calling in maria and gene and amy, you know, they just they take time to prepare this show mean, every month they come up with a topic, they come up with conversation around the topic, and they take the time to think about these things, and then they take the time to call it. I mean, you know, gene and, uh, amy on the west coast, i declare i mean, they’re doing us a ten. Thirty ten o’clock in the morning, ten. Thirty in the morning. That’s early. Well, for california. Yeah. I mean, you know, those people, i mean, they’re starting the day like noon, but these but these two are not they’re they’re more ambitious than your average california person. That’s bad, right? That’s bad for everybody, for i was born in california. Are you? Are you from california? Was born there you’re born he was more than a little teeny tiny town called coal inga. They had a big earthquake there in nineteen eighty three. Is that their claim? Tio? Okay, wasn’t that the celebrated jumping frog that’s, calaveras celebrated jumping frog of calaveras county or something? Isn’t it cooling? Is is known as the home of harris ranch, which is a horse breeder, and they had a horse a couple of years ago that that one like the two big races but didn’t want the third one. I can’t enter the name of it. No, i’m sorry, it was a great story, okay, so you don’t know much more about sports going to do well and i don’t know that much about horse racing. Well, let’s, me neither feel any better, but i don’t know about baseball, so great gratitude, gratitude going out to those three contributors who have been with us for a long time. Maria is like three years, amy, since the hundredth show, which would be four years, fifty shows a year, two hundred shows, five, fifty, two hundred for four years. And jean takagi even longer than that. It’s amazing! So that’s tony’s take two lots of gratitude going out? Okay, let’s do a giveaway we give away, we got some to give away this one’s going tio dan kimble dan is a product specialist, and apple owes software longtime non-profit fundraiser, he says with a passion for people, music, food and a few other things and probably the real interesting stuff is probably a few other things that he doesn’t, including his twitter profile he’s at fugitive d m k although it doesn’t spell fugitive the right way, i hope he knows that, but he tweeted our three hundred show and that’s what it took to win a prize we’ve got to give away for your dan it’s a subscription to the non-profit times. Claire the non-profit times the leading business publication for non-profit management than non-profit times dot com that’s non-profit times dot com that is non-profit times beautiful. What a pro! Thank you. You do have a sag card? I can tell nastad card, scott. No, i do not. But i’m a musician some part of local later to here in the city. Look latto to any man. He’s bona fide. I’m the only one who’s not. I don’t have any have no credentials. All right, jean chicago. Lots of credentials i’ve could have, but nothing like you’re an attorney and that’s. The first one you think of, i’m embarrassed. That’s the first one. That’s important podcaster. You’re a podcaster. Thank you. You’re a certified podcaster. C p c let’s, bring in jane takagi he’s on the line. Gene, welcome to the party. Congratulate durney amazing three hundred shows. Thank you very much. Thank you, jean how’s. Everything. Where you doing in san francisco today? What’s going on there? Well, it’s, a little early, as you mentioned, have, uh, just getting a bit of work done. But it’s, a beautiful day out here, as we often happen in california and san francisco specifically, you have beautiful weather there, right? Well, particularly in july, july? Not june. Sometimes a little gloomy, but right, junior, get that junior. Yes. Do you know where do you know the little town that claire miree office from in california what’s kayman coalinga. Do you know that when you absolutely drive by all the time as i drive down i five tillis, ingeles it’s, halfway between l a and san francisco. Pretty much, right? Yeah, exactly where we make a little stop to get gas and grab, drink, exactly, or you could go to the harris ranch. They have great food at the restaurant of paris ranch. There you go, jean. If you need a lunch, stop instead of just gas and bathroom break, stop it! You know that stuff? I think there’s, a it’s, like a bob’s, big boy or something, is right there. I’ve driven up and down there. Is there a big boy there? Gene, can you verify that? Recall their way? You lots of big boys. But that ok, well used to see lots of big arjun. I want to go there, let’s. See what else we got. Oh, so oh, well, just the fact that you got a restaurant recommendation. So if you need lunch what’s in paris, the harris harris ran her cerini is this huge ranch, but they have a restaurant on site with, you know, great burgers, because the meat comes from the cows that you smell when you’re driving along. I five. There you go. Okay, so i get the before and after. Okay. All right, all right. You are truly a vegetarian. Jean takagi. Uh, are your vegetarian gene? No, i’m not. I don’t admire those who are ok. Waiter it’s a big world out of love for everyone. The vegetarian, vegan, macro, macro, ovo lacto, whatever you might be, your inclusive were inclusive. You included? You included? Because we’re inclusive. Non-profit radio. Um so, jean, you’ve been with non-profit radio for a long, long time. I think it’s i think it’s it may be even more, like more more than five and a half years. You were on very early in the show. My first show was august twenty seventh, two thousand ten august. I see you did the research. You’re better than you better than the host that’s. Why that’s why? I’m not bona fide august twenty seventh, two thousand ten well, we only started the thing in july two thousand ten. Oh, so you were definitely your your hands almost the whole six years. Yeah. It’s. Pretty amazing. And i take way. We have a way. Had drinks, actually at a restaurant here in san francisco that is unfortunately closed down. Since then, i take the only to the best places, right? Yeah. That was back when emily chan was was with us. Yeah, absolutely. So we had the drinks. Do we have the drinks? And then you were on the show or we we did the show and then two drinks, remember? You know, i can’t remember the order, but it was it was very close to around the same time. Okay, so, so call it six years. Jean. You’ve been on the show the whole six years for pete’s sake. I guess so, and very honored to be part of the show. Wow, cool, all right, well, i want to thank you very much for doing that gene. Year after year after year, so many shows together, jin takagi hey edits the very popular, exceedingly popular non-profit law blawg dot com, and his firm is neo, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, um, and on twitter he’s at g tak e t a what a gentleman and what a smart guy. Oh, but we can’t sign him off. You got the award to talk about jean. We gotta spend minutes on this. All right, again, either fact or fiction. Non-profit radio was instrumental in your winning a major award. Jean takagi. Yeah, i’m a little shy to talk about it, but yeah, it was really very, very helpful in and on the first line of my bio. I’ve noted out that that i’m a regular contributor to tony martignetti non-profit radio and that the american bar association’s non-profit organizations committee was kind enough to honor me with their lawyer of the year awards. Thanks. Thanks. It’s also about tony and i very much appreciate being part of this show and absolutely help you get that recognition. Now, gene, i know how modest you are. It’s coming out right now. The full title of the award from the american bar association is two thousand sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer that’s the award that gene takagi one it’s remarkable, so well deserved. So overdue. I mean, you should have been the twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen too. But they finally they fixed it. Twenty sixteen and i was very proud that non-profit medio was a part of your bio on that in that testimonial for the award. So, jean, you’re modest and i admire that. But i’m shouting you out as the american bar association. Twenty sixteen outstanding non-profit lawyer. Well, that’s. Awesome that is awesome, absolutely. Gene, your gentlemen, thank you so much for being a part of non-profit radio. Congrats many, many more so absolutely, and you’ll be a part of a lot of them. Thank you, jean. Thanks, jane, okay, was i mean, we get a little break, we’ve got to go toe, you gotta go to break, is that right? Okay, sam, labbate says, break time. We’ll be back in, uh, moments, mere moments, and we got any sample ward still calling in. We’ve got more fact or fiction. We got scott stein’s gonna play a song from his newest album, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trans sounded life that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i am his niece, carmela. And i am his nephew, gino. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. As you can tell, we got we got skynet is traveling eighty eight. We got scott at his traveling eighty eight is called it’s time. I responded many names. Okay, um, the album, the new album, is traveling companion. What were you gonna play? I’m gonna play the first single it’s called wild abandon, and it just released it last week. It’s available on bandcamp and via my websites, got stein music dot com, and the record will be out in the coming weeks, and as i’m starting to hit the road and do some, do some tour dates in support of the album. So cool. All right, here is scott stein, wild abandon off his new album, traveling companion. I’m going against the traffic, if not exactly against the grain speeding past jamaica on the first outgoing tree. It ain’t the prettiest of day. Ah, but it’ll have to do. To make in naz living, god be in honest man. I read that in a book somewhere is all i understand. No, i’m headed somewhere. I don’t know where to wait, but wherever i’m going, i’m going with you. I live my life. Just win for someone who threw me out in deep shit, mate from a stupor arouses wig made from my sleeping to teach me how to love, because i didn’t have. Hit me like a rocket then, and never side coming. You nearly knocked me over, but his payment run. It doesn’t matter what direction. But just as long as north is true way, wherever i’m going, i’m going with you. Yeah, wherever i’m going, i’m going with you. We’ve got tio love with wild abandon and louder, abandoned, my dear. You’ve got to learn to love with wild abandon, wilder abandoned, my dear, i’m good love you, wild men and wild bend, my dear, i’m done. You know what? Out of band wild abandon, my dear. I’m going against the traffic of not exactly against the green speeding past to make it line and down, darling, i can’t wait. Till’s wagon days through there has never been more certain, darling. Because i made up my mind. I’m going to make that safe, uncertain path going. But my heart walk line. So baby let’s get lost together. Stumble down the avenue. Because wherever going going with yeah, wherever i’m going, i’m going with you. Wait! Thanks. Scott stein. Scott stein. Music dot com the new album is i do. Two new album is traveling companion. That was wild. Abandon you’re gonna find him. It’s scott stein, music dot com you’re gonna find him in pittsburgh coming up. You’re gonna find him in lancaster pen pencil. Vania we’re gonna find him in akron. His hometown has got dates in all these towns coming up and there’s a lot more at scott stein. Music dot com, right? Yes, sir. Thank you. And again. Congratulations on three hundred. And thanks for having me. Absolutely. It’s a pleasure. I want to hear for three. Fifty. I’ll start. I’ll start counting. I’ll give you the date so you don’t look yourself. You okay? Cool. I’m glad you’re with us. And you with us for the rest of show. Write your exam. We got there. We got ten minutes left on my god. Okay. So while while scott and claire switch mike’s again, i’ll turn the periscope around me and i’m going to live listener love you gotta have the live listen love it’s always got to go out now live listeners know this i make a big, big to do out of you gotta have the live listening, but why is it because i’m grateful? I’m just showing men, i’m just showing gratitude that we’ve got live listeners and i don’t care when it’s only three or when it’s thirty three or fifty i i know the three people are out there and i love it it’s a rush knowing people are listening live yeah, the vast, vast majority that over ten thousand listen, the podcast but the live listeners knowing you are with me gives me juice. I’m telling you it gives me energy every single show. So we got a live listener love going to new york, new york, charlotte, north carolina and swan’s borrow north carolina, mount vernon, new york a couple of new yorkers checking in thomasville, north carolina, multiple north carolina school treat dale, oregon i know it’s oregon, not oregon, because amy sample warden trained me months ago years ago that there’s no e at the end of oregon treyz dale, oregon, um, alexandria virginia’s on live listening love going alexandria st louis, missouri matt laurel, new jersey live listener love to each of you now, of course we’ve got to go abroad lots. Of countries always checking in south korea. So so loyal, always, always somebody from south korea. So for south korea live listen, love i send comes our ham nida japan! I don’t know where in japan were a little tax today, so we don’t know cities but we got japan in the house konnichi wa also argentina, hungary, china’s with us china also always checking in so loyal in china, ni hao and australia is with us live listen love to australia that’s the live love has got to go out we got to the podcast pleasantries because you know, if the live listen love goes out right comes after that podcast pleasantries, bestie over ten thousand claire over ten thousand people listen to show on itunes and stitcher those were the vastness of the vast majority, the the itunes stitcher platforms, but over ten thousand people on the podcast i mean, this technology is wonderful and the different shows on talking alternative radio it’s, like anybody, can have their own show and everybody can be their own media mogul. You don’t have to rely on traditional communications and traditional media to get your to get your message out, you’re absolutely right. But you know what? We have traditional on non-profit radio because we have affiliate stations throughout the country. I am and fm stations throughout the country listening stations. Do we have dozens? I don’t remember how many really doesn’t. Yeah. So from oh, in fact, scotty is doing lancaster, pennsylvania. We have a station in lanchester. Yeah, we’re talking about that stopped when we’re on the way out. W l r i will shout them out specifically in lancaster, pennsylvania. Mary-jo yeah, we’ll see you guys this saturday. Okay? Out and will a straight hans her house is probably playing so outstanding. Okay, but the am and fm listeners. So we got we got the traditional media. We got the new media, the podcast, but but going out to the affiliate listeners, of course. That’s affiliate affections. It’s not podcast pleasantries. We’re live. Listen, elearning that’s affiliate affections for the affiliate listeners. Okay, just so we know fillied affections to all our lives to are all our affiliate listeners. Okay, um, let’s, bring in the sample. Warden, we gotta bring around she’s on amy sample ward. How you doing? I’m doing well. How are you? Happy number three. Hundred. Thank you very much. You’ve been with me since number one hundred. I know that was my first show. And you have another very auspicious occasion. You’re on maternity leave right now. Well, concrete’s am. And today is my son’s. Three months treyz orange orange way today. Have you, it’s? Not a year. Three months and three hundred, sold was three months old and we’re doing the three hundred show. This is very auspicious, three’s. Lots of trees. So open. Nobody in the audience has triskaidekaphobia because that’s fear of the number three. I hope that i hope nobody has that. Now you have tricked triskaidekaphobia. No, you don’t. Okay. Congratulations, orin. Happy birthday, he’s. Currently way. Okay, okay. We just have a minute or so. Amy sample word. But i wanted to have you on to thank you for all your work with this show. It’s. Amazing. Oh, my gosh. It’s. My pleasure. I was just thinking this morning about this being the three hundred show. I heard you do the math earlier. So fifty show of the year. So four years and how how much has happened in all of that time in the sector and the kinds of conversations that we’ve had in the different topics that you covered, like four years is a long time in a non profit world. Thank you. And i’m glad you’ve been with me for that long. And and the show’s been around for six. So imagine that so. Well, like a dinosaur non-profit radios. A dinosaur? No, we’re not done, sir. All right. We have to go in, but i want to thank you very much for being a part of the show. Really? Sincerely. And for calling in on maternity leave time and orin happy third, third month. Thank you so much. We love you. We love you. We love you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we got one minute left. Claire meyerhoff has a bunch of let’s. Let’s. Do a little more factor fiction before we before we wrap. What do you got? Well, i’ve got a quiz for you. It’s a it’s. A new york quiz that comes by way of my friend amy wolf at the new york community trust. We’ve got a couple of questions for you, let’s. See what you know. How many public charities call new york city. Home includes hospitals. And churches is a ten thousand. Or is it twenty thousand or thirty thousand? Hyre i thought i was like fifty thousand. So i’m going to say thirty thousand thirty, one thousand one hundred and fifty, to get some music for that, i said thirty. Yeah. Thank you. I’m getting screwed by. I’m getting screwed by scott stein. I’m not getting my music, all right? What else we got? Okay. What is the largest nonprofit organization in the state of new york? Is it in you? New york university? The metropolitan museum of art or columbia university, new york university, columbia. Fourteen billion billion. Thatis oh, and assets o if you had said in assets i would’ve known i thought you meant number of students. So here’s, the last. The last question. New york employees. The state of new york employs the most number of people in non-profits in the nation is at one million. One point, one million or one point two five, nine. One point two five. One point two. Five million workers are paid more than fifty seven billion dollars in wage is. Thank you very much. Thank you. You did really well, okay, i did. I got two out of three, but i get you cheated me on the way. You asked that’s what i got wrong. Thank you, amy wolf. Okay, we gotta wrap this up, so we turned off the periscope to me, and i have to say thank you very much to cure a coffee. We love your coffee, our price sponsor and the non-profit times also. Thank you so much. Thank you, scott stein. Thank you. Being with its course. Thank you. Clear. Markoff. Thank you. Thank you for co hosting. Love us love being here. I love the show. We also got to thank everybody who called in. You know, those listeners, those those contributors, you know who they are. Maria, gene and amy. If you missed any part of today’s show, how could you miss it? It’s the three hundredth finding on tony martignetti dot com. Responsive by pursuant to full service fund-raising data driven, technology enabled pursuing dot com, and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We’ll be spelling dot com. Our creative producers plan meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer shows social media is by susan chavez susan chavez dot com on our music is by scott stein you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Xero what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe. Add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is fired-up that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts tony, too. Not to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio 300th Show!

Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio’s 300th show is July 29, 2016. Claire Meyerhoff, our creative producer, will co-host. With us will be contributors Maria Semple (prospect research), Gene Takagi (law) and Amy Sample Ward (social media). Also, live music by the composer of Nonprofit Radio’s theme song, Scott Stein. Be with us, live or archive!

Listen live 7/29/16 at 1pm ET:

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Nonprofit Radio for June 24, 2016: How We Got Here & New Overtime Rules

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Robert Penna: How We Got Here

Features of today’s charitable community emerged from clear points in history. How did women come to outnumber men in the sector? Why is the northeast dominant? Dr. Robert Penna returns to reveal the formation of our modern charity complex. His book is “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox.”

 

 

Gene Takagi: New Overtime Rules

Gene Takagi

The Department of Labor has issued new rules for classifying which employees are eligible for overtime. They’re effective December 1 so you need to know what’s up. Who’s got your back? Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and managing attorney of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations law group (NEO).

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host our listener of the week is aubrey burghdoff, our she’s executive director of the california symphony, she tweeted, i love this episode! I listened a second time and took notes. She was talking about the march twenty fifth show this year on lead and matching gif ts and corporate matching gift she’s at aubrey. Why? Why that’s aubrey with two extra wise on the end thank you very much for loving non-profit radio aubrey, congratulations on being our listener of the week oh, i’m glad you’re with me i grow a gibbous if you backed me into the idea that you missed today’s show how we got here features of today’s charitable community emerged from clear points in history how did women come to outnumber men in the sector? Why is the northeast dominant? Dr robert penna returns to reveal the formation of our modern charity complex. His book is the non-profit outcomes, toolbox and new overtime rules. The u s department of labor has issued new rules for classifying which employees are eligible for overtime they’re effective. December first so you need to know what’s up, who’s got your back. Jean takagi are legal contributor and managing attorney of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo on tony’s take two fund-raising fundamentals round up. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com my pleasure to welcome dr robert penna back to the studio he’s, author of the book the non-profit outcomes toolbox first brought him to the non-profit radio studio in september two thousand eleven he’s been a consultant to charity navigator and has presented in canada, africa, the middle east, europe and australia. Nothing in the antarctic and oh, i see he grew up in the bronx, lives in wilmington, north carolina, and knows more about dc comics characters than an adult should admit you’ll find robert penna at outcomes toolbox. Dot com bob, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Pleasure. Thank you for hustle on your way to the studio today. The train was late. I understand, but you’re you’re not you’re not. You saved it non-profit outcomes. Toolbox. Last time you were here was five. Years ago, how’s the, uh, how’s the book doing it. Just come out when it’s been phenomenal. Yeah, it was that just released two thousand eleven. It was released in two thousand. Okay? Yes, it was sixty days before i was here. It’s it’s got me all over the world. The response has been incredible. Not antarctica, but not an article. I think the the penguins and the puffins and particular interest serious in the performance. But the good news is that word has been spreading that there’s nothing else like it out there for non-profits they want to learn howto tio be performance based on dh really start working on outcomes. And it’s got me all around the world. Places i never, ever thought i’d get to see. Saudi arabia and nairobi australia’s been phenomenal. Outstanding. So international organizations are interested in outcomes measurement as well out the united states actually is the leading non-profit sector in the world. Everybody hopes to see what we’re doing. Eso when non-profits started looking outcomes here non-profits in other parts of the world started looking as well. And so i got invitations and there i was. Excellent. Love it. Okay, i’m glad. He’s doing well, i’m i’m i’m even happier than you are. Not literally. The checks are pouring in. Finally, the first one. All right, the first one takes five years. Depends on how big your euro your advances. Jeff, work off the eye. I see. All right, but i finally did. Okay, i don’t want to get details about your personal finance is all right. Just get a a short subject. You know, we have to film. Remember, you have to be together twenty five minutes to fill twenty. We’re going to because we’re going to talk about the history of the charitable sector, which is a part of a new book, part of a new book that you’re working so and so exposes to what the new book is not out yet. Yeah, what’s that going to be about the new book is basically a donor’s guide. It really is basically what you should know about the sector every year we individual americans give billions of dollars. Last year was two hundred seventy eight billion dollars from us, and most of us know nothing about the sector. And so i am, depending upon the metaphor you choose, i’m either. Lifting the curtain or lifting the fig leaf and we all know what usually has been so all right. Ah, fig leaf, i, for that matter for all right. Okay, so when is that? You have a big fat advance that you’re working on now? Yeah, yeah, i’m working on a big fed events. I really can’t tell you because the book is i’m trying to do very, very thorough job. There’s an awful lot that we’re going to talk about today is just some of it today, when we talk about the history part, right, this is not it’s, not a history. Mode is not understanding. This is one chapter isn’t right, you know, one piece. Okay, so all right. So let’s, uh, still into it. Okay, let’s, go back, tio, old england. Oh thing. Which is where our charitable sector started with with queen elizabeth the first what was going on under her fig leaf? Oh, don’t do that to me! Latto charity, as we think of it, was, was vastly different back then. It was it was virtually all individual. But it was not really designed to help the poor. The old christian idea was that by the act of being charitable, the person who was being charitable got some sort of divine grace e-giving charity had nothing to do with ameliorating poverty or helping the poor. It was i’m doing this so i will get good graces. Most of the poor laws had to do with trying to corral and chase the poor from place to place to place. But they were also the divergence of opinion as to really what was charity. And so what elizabeth did was she did a there was an actor. Royal acted in sixty no one. The the charitable uses act and what she did in one fell swoop was she secularized charity. Because in addition to the usual type things poor, the needy, the infirm, the agent she now included as perfectly valid charitable uses things like building roads, building bridges, building causeways, supporting the troops. If you donated money to to to raising an army that was considered charity, the things that you might consider to be almost social engineering a fund for the marriage of poor maiden’s. Because in those days you needed a dowry. If you had no dari your chance of being married, we’re even lower. So this was a fund for the dowry of a poor maiden so they could get married. There was ah, charity was seen to be also thie encouragement and support of young learning artisans and artists and things of this nature. So what she did at that point was expand the concept of charity beyond the usual idea of helping an individual or helping individuals, and more towards what you and i would consider efforts of public benefit public good. And that strain has never left us. Okay. And also similar mints of social engineering. Yes. Helping see the women get married? Yes. You said you said moving the poor around moving the paralysis is moving the poor round. That is the poor laws we don’t talk about. That was that was not very nice. That was not there was rather know thiss was. This was in terms of helping young artisans helping argast supporting them, supporting young young academics. All of these. Were included in the list had never been thought of his charity before they’re they’re after yes, okay, as part of explains, it can just finish white today you can have the opera, you can have a bird sanctuary and you could have a battered women’s shelter all considered charities because going back to elizabeth, all of these sexual things became part of chuck, and now we have just a minute before break, we brought this concept over with us. Well, the puritans i shared i’m in italian, so i didn’t bring it over. We brought something else over, but, um, puritans brought these concepts with them. Yes, it is, yes, but they also brought some. They also had some very, very important individual ideas of their own. I’m not quite sure if you’re trying to go into it right now, but i could go over just over the top number one. It was every person’s responsibility to take care of his neighbor. That was your duty to god, and that was your duty to the king arika secondly, very, very important thing, the puritans, unlike anyone else who came to north america, had the sense that they could use the law to enforce changes in attitude and behavior so if we’re talking about moral standards and we’re not talking about that shot, not till we’re talking about ideas towards social behavior, their idea of a city on the hill, their idea of the new jerusalem, they were going to create a better society, and if you wanted to live there, you had a full flowing line one hundred percent we always see these pictures of them wearing dark clothes that said, all of this was enforced by law, we can get back to it after the broker. All right, well, we’re going to move on from the puritans, actually, because i want to start talking about some of our features of charity today we only have twenty five minutes and, uh, okay, so we’re going to look a tw. What? What characterizes charity today and how that how we got here? That’s what it’s all about let’s, stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. This is our two hundred ninety fifth show. The three hundredth show is coming up on july twenty ninth. That’s the sixth anniversary of non-profit radio july twenty ninth. Very special show for you with us. Okay, bob. So the so i want to look at some features of charity’s today. Like on this has relationship to the puritans the northeast. So is sort of the first explain. How is it that way characterized the northeast as being dominant in charity philanthropy? It’s, not the northeast is nominated ways going culture is what you have to go again. I hate to do this. You have to go back to pilgrim’s idea of creating a better society. The pilgrim’s. This was their fat. One of the founding ideas you and i chatted briefly before about the split between charity and philanthropy. Weight of these two split well, one of the things that happen is that when philanthropy started developing that that protestant strain of creating a better society informed what they were doing and that has never changed. Most people would think would agree today that in terms of its humanistic goals in terms of the kinds of things that embraces that, more or less, the non-profit sector truly has sort of a liberal caste or a liberal bent by no means to be political. But in terms of things that it embraces. Those all go back to creating that better society that started with the pilgrims and through the eighteen hundreds through the organized benevolence that they spread, this stuff was not down south dahna south at a totally different kind of culture. This all came from the north east. When you look at the non profit sector today you’re looking at the direct descendants of the of the organized beneficence off the northeast going back to the eighteen hundreds. Okay, and today we see that way see just concentrations of charities in the northeast. But you but you always did a cz early as eighteen. Twenty. There were over two thousand of these voluntary associations in doing a little, vastly outstripping the numbers. Any places? Yeah, americans have a have a penchant for tokyo breeding association doesn’t talk to us. You have a quote in the chapter from the total talks about that and he says anyplace. In in europe, will you see a great man at the head of some endeavor, or in france, the government in the united states? You will find an association and that the world that in eighteen thirty? Yeah, and the association’s became associations are non-profit non-profit we’ll talk about how we got there, through laws and recognition and etcetera. Okay, all right, what about women will be very interesting sixty percent of the employees in non-profits air women do i have that rough? If you pray it’s probably more than that, and several women, when they’re friends of mine, would point out that ah, shameful number of directors are actually women, particularly with not latto yeah, with larger number i mean that’s. The staffs are overwhelming when i when i speak in front of groups of very often, there’ll be a hundred people in the room and they’ll be like four males. Honestly, that’s normal where this start this actually was in the early decades of the eighteen, eighteen, twenty just again thinking about this society due to the social mores of the day, women were not allowed to do it in twenty there weren’t even voting well, they weren’t voting they weren’t working. Certainly the middle class and upper class when we’re not working, however, this was a victorian era that had this notion that women were more sensitive, that women had a more perceiving i was also something very, very important going on male world. And that was the beginning of what we call today. Contract theory. It changed. Changed working relationships. I created the world we think of in terms of dickens. What means? Contract theory. Contract theory was its. We write it down. I owe you nothing past what’s in the contract. And if i fire you, i don’t owe you anything. It changed working relationships throughout europe and it hit the united states, the northeast, particularly the east coast. Particularly in the very late seventeen hundreds. Early eighteen hundreds it began to change the relationships amongst people amongst neighbors amongst the merchants and the people with whom we do business. Life got very, very sharp, hard angled and different. Almost a cruel is supposed to have had been women. Women started to see in ways that men refused to recognise the downside off of this, you know, hyper capitalism on the crass commercial world every other evan who was close to them. But this was not. They started pushing for a cz earliest seventeen. Ninety five women were behind the idea of pushing for penal reform. I had a list here i think i could have looked at but every they were against war, they were getting against press gangs. They were against dueling there against inebriation. They were against the abandonment of children. One thing that was a big issue throughout the eighteen hundreds was women being, shall we say, would seduced and abandoned. There were numerous groups, but if you look back as early seventeen, ninety five was the first formal women’s association for social betterment. Again, i have the name somewhere. My notes here. Wait, we don’t even know so we don’t need the name. But the point is it goes back to seventeen, ninety five. Yeah. And by the early decades of the eighteen hundred eighteen ten, eighteen twenties, this movement was almost entirely driven by women of the association’s thes associate these associations that were geared toward social betterment. Now yes, there were associations. There were associations of fishermen there with grange, as they were. Those were not female dominated. But those warm or those worm or industry related those one male dominated because they had to do with the trades. Okay, trades right? Because the men were but doing use the work this think about abila first of abolition. Where was the capital of abila? Abolition? It was boston. It certainly wasn’t down south. And yes, there was a gentleman whose name escapes me. Who ran the paper. But most of his field troops. The shock troops were women. Abolition, suffrage, suffrage, temperature tendered. Yes. Take carrie nation. Yeah. Thes wall women driven and there’s. Many, many, many more. Particularly when it gets around the, uh, child welfare and abandoned women. Orphans, widows. Ah, help the prisoners. All right. Reform price. You mentioned a prostitute. Refund forms pressure not only help for prisoners, but penal reform, penal reform. They recognized the cruelty of the institution. Well, actually, you know, they thought the institutions are better than what preceded it, which included the pillory that stock in public whipping and branding. And so they thought the penitentiary is we’re better than that. And so they were pushing initially for jails rather than bilich stop whipping and brand. Okay, that should have his peanut that’s that is penal reform is compared to what had been okay. Yes, all right, i thought so. They didn’t. They didn’t move out of the prison system or no, they were trying to prove that they were trying to get to a person to person comes whipping, etcetera, whipping, branding, and all right, so it’s ours and feathers. So there was so it really emanated from the with women recognizing the softer side of of life actually know. And there were a diversion and performing over contract the capital prize, the emergent males perception that they had a softer side. They were very shrewd. They knew what they were doing. It was this was not they were soft, and they had these these flowery ideas that just happened to work. They knew exactly what they were doing. But the thing was that the male population stepped aside because it deferred to what it saw. Women’s keener insights in other words, they weren’t playing, that they might have been playing the gender card. But they did very, very, very intelligently. They got what they want. They had their male allies when it came to having people write checks deeply. Clinton for mayor of new york. He was the mayor of new york and the head of one of the biggest societies of social improvement societies in the city at the same time. But it was all being run by these with women, sisters and daughters of the ruling male elite and let’s. See, what they did was they used the ruling male lead to get money for the rest of the men had it? Yeah. Okay. See, i think that’s cool. I get hysterical. All right. Anything you want to say about women, how they emerged as dominant. Well as as the century jin is very, very interesting. Because dominant in numbers, i should say, i mean, there are yes. There are a good number of women, ceos, executive actors, but a very small proportion of of the one, point, one million charities. So what are led by women? What is very, very interesting is the way they kept running and having the kipping resurgent. There was a move towards the early twentieth century which would have replaced a lot of them with male managers who was thought to be much more scientific. But when the sector got basically got into trouble and ones saying that trump latto did anything wrong. But it suddenly found it’s ah it’s, ah, its raison de tre questioned not to mention its sources of funding. It was the women who came back and were able to answer the need when the sector moved to the middle class as its salvation. And this was after the war. This was an era when the non-profits hadn’t what we call non-profits today they were called that, then they really know had no idea what they were going to do it, a lot of them there weren’t that many of them, but they were starving. They were drawing upon the vine, and they didn’t know really what to do with themselves. And it was literally women who saved them by virtue of thinking in terms of things like family counseling and marriage campuses around. This is nineteen forty, nineteen late nineteen forties nineteen fifties. Okay? And we’re seeing so so i guess another another area that i want to cover is services to the middle class. Yes, and it it emerged around the new deal when new deal legislation sort of the new deal captured the poor away from the association, the new deal people think in terms of the new deal is a couple of things i think of the w p a they think of the ccc they think of high was being built in things like this, but they they didn’t offer a lot more because they weren’t not just laborers and construction people that were out of work. They were thinkers, they were, they were artists, there were musicians, and so under some of the new deal programs, an awful lot of these people were hired and they provided services they provided thing, for example, there was one course really interested me how to how to teach people to think critically, and so they were offering this ah, for free public expense. But what was very interesting is that when after the war, the the public, particularly the middle class, liked a lot of these services also think about it in the earlier days, you really couldn’t talk about marital problems that was very probably right, but you sure as heck couldn’t talk about sexual problems. You really couldn’t talk about having problems rear your young because in the earlier days it was but it’s supposed to be the male had a strong hand. Spare the rod, not the child, you know. Spare the rod, spoil the child, etcetera. It was only after the war that these things became started become things people could talk about. It was the salvation in many cases of a lot of these these non-profit agencies, because what they started doing was providing specifically these kinds of surfaces to the middle class. Interesting enough. One of the rationales was the middle class could pay for it, at least in part it didn’t have to all be free. You have to understand that a lot of the agencies that you think of now things like community chest, they really and truly number one wanted to get get away from relief. The experience of of the depression and the new deal when they’ve been pushed out of relief and forced to find other ways to survive. You had really gotten them to the point where they did not want to be back in the release in really space, which was really seen as a descendant of charity. They were much more comfortable in the benevolence, the philanthropy, the betterment of society kinds of kinds of efforts. And they said that on the brothers, all right, rather than charity. So we talked about that before the division between charity. We didn’t get into detail we’re going through, but this is where they were much more comfortable, and that led them directly in the path to be ready for when eventually came along. Great society. It’s such like that. Okay, now, is this the beginning of the divergence between charity and philanthropy? Now, at the beginning of the divergence is actually in the eighteen hundreds. Okay, what was the history of that? The history of that was life was we’re looking back, we think we have this picture of this very bucolic america, if you know, from the colonial era, most people don’t even realize all the things that happens. Say, from eighteen hundred eighteen forty we sort of jumped from george washington to the civil war, but an awful lot happening, like you’d be in the wilderness if you went to fill it beyond philadelphia. That was true, but it off. A lot of things was happening, and one of the things that was happening was that cities were growing new york city was growing exponentially. You had a lot of immigrant groups coming in you had but also think about the older areas of new england, massachusetts, et cetera. These have been farmed out that was there have a great soil to begin with. The ohio valley was opening. People were moving the tightness of the you know, we all have this kind of notion of ah, sturbridge village and the cute little yeah that existed at one point. But by the time eighteen hundred rolled around, ah, lot of that was changing. So that whole idea of direct community responsibility for charity was breaking down. Secondly, when you got to the cities, the city’s had anonymity and that alone attracted a lot of people. There was the structures that had created charity before, on allowed upon which charity had been based before. We’re breaking down tremendously. Number one, number two. The numbers were increasing. And the idea was that charity was a waste. It was a waste of time. Charity comes from the latin word careerist, which means tenderness, mercy and love. Philantech becomes from the greek, which means love of mankind as early as seventeen o four. It was recognized as a term meaning somebody who was interested in the public good in public works in public benefit. All right, they started looking not to help tony or bob because we had problems, but rather while the but problems that tony and bob facing exist nowhere when did this thinking this thinking started by eight by eighteen ten by eighteen. Twenty early very, very early. It was also seen as much more organized and much more scientific. All right, where is that? We can help? We can help the masses rather than one person at a time. They were we could get to the cause is exactly what they were looking to do. Was copy that. Go back to securing that center. I want to go back to the puritans, create a better society. Why do we have poverty? All right now their answer in many cases was very still to their answers. Was if only the pool without more like us. All right, that is. But that is true. Very helpful. No, it isn’t very helpful. But it was awful long for roughing long time. That was the answer they had was the whole period. Called the friendly visitors who went into places don’t like fight like five points, and basically the message is, if only you would be more like us. However, even though they were misfiring because they didn’t have the knowledge we have today, they didn’t have the theory today certainly didn’t have computers where they could crunch numbers. Their idea was this benevolence. The idea was they were trying to change society, not necessarily help people. So that was the division between charity, which has always been direct and specifically focused on individual family and philanthropy, which is always had much broader goals and has always been much more abstract. But that that split literally tony goes back to the early decades of the eighteen hundreds. Well, okay, cool. Um, let’s move forward a little bit, tio. Some of the recognition in the in the tax laws. That’s, that’s. Really? Not really about really, like two minutes left. So you’ll have to go through this little quickly charity’s. Well, first. Well, there was first non-profit status was like nineteen. Nineteen o nine. Okay, let’s, let’s, go back. We only have about a minute and a half. Now then let me do. The talking like men and they haven’t finished. Ah, before the before the turn of the last century, almost all taxes were levied by states churches had never been. Churches have never been taxed. It started with churches, property belonging, the church’s libraries. But all of this state law it was not until eighteen, ninety five something in that area when the federal government first mentioned not the charitable organizations that in caldnear non-profits charitable organizations, they were exempted. Then later it was codified that they had to be non-profit it was charitable organization first then non-profit what we think of today with the whole tax loss set up with the five o one sees that did not happen until nineteen. Fifty four and they were not in those days twenty nine categories of five a onesie. But just let again your listeners understand what we have today in terms of the tax exemptions. Number one this goes back centuries number two it’s started with the state’s number three. It became the law of the land when the feds put it in around red, around world war on dh that actually the exemption, the personal exemption for giving it inevitably goes back to the world will want here. Okay, so again, everything we see today, tony has roots a long time ago and that’s the overall theme of this particular part of the book. They’re working outstanding. We look forward to the book when it when it comes out, we’ll talk more. I’ll be back. Okay? Sounds like charity navigator between, uh, on the bookshelf. Dr robert pennant. You’ll find him at outcomes. Toolbox. Dotcom thank you again, bob. Thank you for having me. Future of e mail is coming up. No future females not coming. Who writes this copy? New overtime rules with jean takagi is coming up. All right, what i need you’ve heard me say this before. I need an intern. So i have somebody to blame for this crappy copy. So if you have, if you are interested being an intern, i don’t know. Or if you have a son or daughter andi, you don’t mind them being blamed for my mistakes. Sammy. Sammy the resume. Tony at tony martignetti dot com new overtime rules with jean takagi that’s what’s coming up first, pursuing there’s an opportunity for you to join a groundbreaking panel to raise the bar for us fund-raising pursuant is partnered with rogue hair, which is a fund-raising think tank in england. Dr adrian sergeant was a guest. Oh, maybe four, five, six weeks ago, roughly from from rogue hair to bring this. This joint venture is to bring what’s called critical fund-raising to the u s and they are recruiting a panel of pro fundraisers to make sure that new ideas come out of rogue ares research like the relationship fund-raising study that dr sergeant and i talked about was the march there was a march eighteenth show, so it was more than six weeks ago, march eighteenth so they want to put this you know this this thought into practice and that’s why they are recruiting a panel and also help the two companies identify while one’s accompany one’s a think tank let’s be precise. Now identify gaps in fund-raising knowledge so that rogue air can research them and fill them in. And, you know, i keep saying no, gary, i don’t know if it’s rogue array that’s the latin that it comes from, which is to ask, i don’t know if i don’t know if over there they’re pronouncing it. Rogue air or rogue ira, but any case they’re they’re partnered with pursuing. You can join the panel. The deadline to apply to be a panel member is july first. So you still have about a week. Go to tony dot, m a slash pursuant rogue air r o g a r e and you have to put a capital p and you have to put a capital r, because that’s, the way bentley works. So tony dot m a slash pursuant rogue hair and get your application in before july first. Hopefully you will be on the panel and improve fund-raising practice in the us. That’s the whole purpose of this now tony steak too fund-raising fundamentals it’s the podcast that i produce for the chronicle of philanthropy but doing this for three or four years you know that part i put together a round up of shows that are excellent that i think deserve your attention. There’s one on donor empathy called put yourself in your donorsearch news ideas for giving tuesday there’s ideas for boosting your plan e-giving and there’s more now this is a short form fund-raising fundamentals. Only each one was about ten minutes, so i could never squeeze dr penner into fund-raising fundamentals. It wouldn’t work. Um, he’s still here. So he i’m not saying anything behind his back. Um, anyway, i did a round up the video and the links to the to those short episodes of fund-raising fundamentals are at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two. Jean takagi. I know he’s on the phone and you know who he is. He is the managing attorney at neo non-profit and exempt organizations. Law group he’s, our monthly legal contributor times. Many, many years he edits the popular blogger at non-profit law blogged dot com. And on twitter, he is at gi tak gt a k welcome back, jane takagi. Thanks, tony. Happy summer school. Happy somebody. You do? It’s a sweltering one here in in here, in washington. I almost said new york city’s the mid eighties what’s it like in san francisco. It’s actually a pretty comfortable, like, seventy two out here. No big deal. All right, san francisco’s. Always bragging about their weather. You always boasting about that? Not in juno. You have june gloom you had. Did you have fog earlier today, june gloom we’ve had some june gloom way we’re headed towards july and the sweet whether or not yeah, well, we’ll worry about that. All right? Another time, all right, overtime rules, overtime rules have changed, gene, and it take a takes effect december first, so there’s still time to plan, but this has some serious implications for non-profits it does, and i think most of us are sort of generally aware of overtime rule that enough if you’ve had hourly jobs before, like i have tony, but, you know, we sort of get used to that idea of if we work more than forty hours per week is a narrowly employees were entitled to overtime time and a half, so i remember being an hourly workers that was actually sometimes a great thing to have to have that extra income, no, but i think what’s less known is that even if you’re paid a salary and so let’s say you’re paid, you know, thirty thousand dollars per year or something and not on an hourly basis, you might still have the time. The right tio overtime if you work more than forty hours per week that sometimes little known and little understood both. By employees and employers and generally the way people think is that salaried employees if you get a salary and not an hourly wage, you’re kind of in that category of exempt employees, which are those who are exempt from the overtime pay right, but not all right. And so that the most common forms of exemption are referred to as the white-collar exemptions. I mean, those are the executives who are, you know, usually managers managing two or more employees. Um, the professionals who are like, you know, teachers, lawyers and doctors. And usually it requires a degree and some sort of certificate, our license and the administrative imp ploys that are performing office and non manual work that’s directly related to management or business operations. So those are the typical salaried exceptions, the white-collar exemptions from from overtime. Okay, let’s, let’s acquaint listeners were, uh, and me with what what’s what’s changed. What’s the that’s not bury the headline what is new about overtime? So what is new is those white-collar exemptions were subject to a minimum amount. So even if he falls under the definitions of executive, professional or administrative straight of professional if you were making less than twenty three thousand six hundred sixty dollars, which is currently the threshold. You were entitled to get overtime if you work more than forty hours. So that’s what little known if you made less than twenty three thousand six hundred sixty dollars, you were entitled to overtime even if you were a salary. Now the law that’s changing says that minimum threshold is going up by more than double, so the new threshold is going to be forty seven thousand four hundred seventy six. So more than forty seven thousand where the old threshold, which will apply until december first, is only twenty, twenty three, twenty three so many more people now eligible for overtime pay, right? So basically, everybody who was salary between twenty three thousand six, sixty and forty seven thousand four hundred seventy six are entitled. Teo will be entitled to overtime pay time and a half based on their salary starting december first. And how do you calculate? What is the hourly rate? You just you just divide the weekly salary by forty? Yeah, i think you’re just going to do on on a pro rata basis. You, khun divided by the number of hours that you work in a year for for for a worker and then that’s the hourly rate your time and times it by time and a half. Okay, now this applies to all employers, right? This is not just non-profits that are being hit, it applies not all employers, but non-profits don’t have a special knows i’m from there. Okay, no special exclusion for non-profits and it comes from the us department of labor, right, not california law. Now this is not right for once it’s, not california, but people should know that they need to look at the state laws because the state laws sometimes might be even more strict than the federal laws. In some ways, that could be more difficult for employers, and in some ways, this increase will be much, much less for for state law. Under under state law in california, for example, are current minimum for exempt employees is forty one thousand, so that jumped to forty seven thousand isn’t so big. The federal level is jumping from twenty three thousand forty seven thousand much much hyre increase affecting many, many more employers and employees. Are there any states going above the forty? Seven, four. Seventy six and none that i know of. Okay? No. None being more generous. All right. Right. But i understand important. You do need to check your own state law. Yeah, and california will will probably be over that that amount in a few years as they’re targeting a fifteen dollars, minimum salary, hourly rate and the example categories will go up with that over a number of years. All right. You said no special exemption for non-profits, but some non-profits are accepted. No, no, no umbrella exemption for non-profits. But there are some excepted non-profit categories. Yeah, so not non-profits so generally you khun get you can fall under the coverage in three ways, and one way is just by operation of state law. So i’m going to leave that out for now, because the states will all differ on that. But the two other main ways to get covered is one if the non-profit is considered a covered, enter surprise. So a little bit of jargon there, but generally that means one of two things. One is that they’re one of these named enterprises. So if it’s a hospital or an organization that takes care of older adults or people with disabilities who reside on on the organisation’s premises or schools for children who are mentally or physically disabled or gifted preschools, elementary school secondary schools and in colleges and universities all covered so all their employees air covered as well the other type of non-profit but that would be great, but i need to understand something covered means they’re they’re subject to this rule, or they are not right. They’re subject to the new to the new law, right? So, employees, uh, all of those named enterprises are going to be subject to those those new rules in the new threshold for overtime. Okay, so those are categories named enterprises. All right, so you still might be outside the named enterprises? Absolutely. Okay, most non-profit they’re probably not just in the strict categories hospitals and schools. So the other way you get covered is if you have ordinary commercial activities that result in sales or business done of at least five hundred thousand dollars. Bonem so that the church here is its commercial activity, so they’re not talking about donations, and they’re not talking about income that’s directly related to furthering your charitable purpose, they’re talking about commercial activities that they’re more like unrelated business activities. So if you’ve got that type of commercial activity and i should say that commercial activity and unrelated business activity under the tax code with unrelated business income tax, they’re defined slightly differently. So i’ll just say this is more broader. So if it’s a commercial type activity that’s being done for-profit and you’re you’re intending, tio, i run a business to generate income for the non-profit no matter where the profits go, you’re just running a real business, and if it’s you’re making at least five hundred thousand dollars on it, then you may be a covered enterprise, and then all of these the new thresholds for for the overtime are going apply to your organization socially. So still a lot of charitable organizations that are not covered yet, but well, based on what we’re going through because you’re right, you have the named enterprise. Is the covered enterprises the named ones? Yeah, half a million dollars threshold in commercial activity. If you’re over that in commercial activity, then this these new rules apply to you, but okay, we’re still talking about a lot of charities that are not going to be impacted? Not yet. Okay, what’s your other category. All right, so any non-profit who has employees who are engaged in interstate commerce so that business transactions basically between or amongst different states and including whether you’re on on the phone or whether you’re doing business not on a very, very rare basis, but somewhat regularly interacting with folks or businesses or other organizations across state lines that does that include fund-raising activity? Yeah, that could that could. Well, this is a close one having this’s not not not going to just be donations there so it’s beyond just simple fund-raising it’s beyond okay, now i’m gonna i’m sort of putting you on the spot, so if you can’t say definitively, you know, of course, you know, use your usual loyally skills toe qualify, but this is going to be the biggest one that would potentially potentially that’s why i’m asking the question sweet lots of non-profits in if you’re if i’m a california charity and i’m making calls to nevada for fund-raising or sending e mails or any of these other things that our solicitations that you and i have talked about when you get into that whole charity solicitation registration realm, if you’re doing these things across state lines, is that the kind of activity that you’re talking about? Yeah, if you do it on a fairly regular basis, that could be activity that that we’re talking about. That’s, a book category, if you’re looking for donated items that are going to cross state state state lines, that maybe what we’re talking about, a swell. So any movement of persons or things including donated goods across state lines, that’s going to trigger and just the employees who are engaged in that activity that doesn’t cover all of the non-profits employees it’s just the employees that are engaged in that particular activity. Okay, so most likely this is going to be your fund-raising team, if you’re going across state lines and, you know, depending how big you are, you might have ah, corporate sponsorship team that just just does that sabat crowd funding is going to be implicated, right? Yeah could be we’re not really sure crowdfunding is so so new and not really caught into how the rest of the laws are our thinking about interstate commerce, and i don’t exactly know how that will. Work, especially with different intermediaries that that help out in the crowd funding. Provoc okay, yes, the intern, yes, those platforms as well. All right, gene let’s. So let’s, go out for a break. When we come back. Of course, we’ll keep talking about this, and you know, you have some ideas for what non-profits need to do and also coming up. Live listener, love, stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from a standup comedy, tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. I’m jonah helper, author of date your donors. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back live listener love as promised! Oh my goodness, we’re gushing! San jose, california, stamford, connecticut, south bound brook, new jersey lovett welcome, south bound brook, morristown, new jersey live listener loved to you, boston, mass talking all about new england today with with with bob penna, rockford, illinois live listener love, i think that’s so that most of the domestic up st louis, missouri it was early early on live listen love, so grateful to have ah, that many live listeners love goes out to you. Of course we got to go abroad. I would be remiss if we don’t i have to do it. Tokyo, japan three three different listeners in japan in tokyo, specifically konnichi wa. We have three, listeners in seoul, south korea, anya haserot lot of times we can’t see had just how many? We just know it’s multiple, but, uh, you see three today and also multiple from tehran, iran welcome live listener loved to tehran three listeners, they’re also love it love it, my voice cracked little bit malaysia, we can’t see your city i’m sorry, but we know you’re with us live listen love to you and we got any other let’s see? Oh, yeah, of course. Hustle be sweden. Welcome live listen, love in noble park, australia live listener loved to you also, i believe that is all the yes. If we didn’t shut you out, then i’m sorry, but live love love to the live listeners. Absolutely. Podcast pleasantries. You know how many you are? Well, over ten thousands of you listening, whatever it is you’re doing. You know, i get tired of me in nouma rating the activities that i’ve heard. So just simple pleasantries to the over ten thousand podcast listeners, the vast majority of our audience and they affiliate affections. Got to send that out to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Our affiliate stations. Let your station know that you listen. You listen to non-profit radio. They would love that feedback. I would be grateful. Thank you very much. Am and fm affiliate listeners. Jean takagi. Thank you for that indulgence. Thank you for being on the phone with me while i, uh well, i think all our listeners it’s important, important it’s. So impressive in an international scope of your listeners. It is it’s cool. Did you know? I don’t know if you were listening earlier today. Did you catch our listener of the week at the top of the show? The executive director of california symphony. I did not. I’m sorry i missed that’s. Okay, aubrey burghdoff hour. Do you don’t know? Do you patronize california symphony? I patronize symphonies in california. Ok, well, hopefully audrey’s. Not listening any longer. Okay, um, let’s. See? So we have ah, you know, we have our standard, like five minutes or so left. What? What are some things that non-profits should be looking at doing to make sure that they are in compliance come december first? Sure. So, first of all, make sure you check to see whether you’re covered or not. And the one broad categories i just refer to very offhandedly was coverage through state law. And note that there’s the national council of nonprofit says that in at least eleven states, including new york and new jersey, the federal rules will apply to virtually all employees and employers, including of non-profits. So watch your state law coverage as well. In addition to the different coverages we talked about, can you a gene? Can you name any of the other states in that eleven has, according to them, it was alaska, dc, illinois, maine, maryland, massachusetts, missouri, new jersey. In new york, they said north carolina and ohio ok, and, uh, the national association non-profits believes most of the non-profits most or all non-profits in those states will be covered by this subject to this bye operation of state law regulation or administrative ruling will automatically apply to virtually all employees and employers. Okay, thank you very much for that in nouma rations. All right, so you got to know if you’re if you’re subject to it, then what if you are? Well, then you’ve got to do a lot of planning, right? So if you’re going to be subject to it, then you gotta start managing and figuring out your budget and what’s so difficult about this is it starts in december, so not too many people are going to have a chance to react to this with their next year’s budget. They’re gonna have to figure out how this is going to impact. They’re this year’s budget um and so so then they’ll have to figure out what do we do? Are we going to do we regularly use over? Time first of all, on our employees covered on are we going tohave teo find different alternatives? Do we need to maybe hyre part time employees or spread out the work in a different manner? So we discourage? Oh, our lesson are need teo give overtime pay? Or do we provide pay raises that increased the worker’s salaries to the new threshold? So so we are sort of been sink overall on we don’t have to pay overtime if we can get them up to that new threshold, and if they’re very close to it, that might be a cost. So one of those is heartless and the other is altruistic, but if we start cutting workers, reducing them to part time that’s ah that’s bad for them. Oh, actually, what i was suggesting and, you know, there’s there’s good and bad to all of this, but when i was first, suggesting is hyre part time employees, new employees so your current employees don’t have toe work the overtime. Oh, hyre new employee. Okay, i was thinking, reducing current employees to part time and bringing on more. Yes, so what? What the critics they’re going to say, though, is that that may not happen, but what may happen is that with the increase costs that are going to result because of the additional overtime taste, some non-profits they’re goingto have to pay starting in december, they may just lay off workers or cut programs instead. That’s a scary thought has that i’m sure somebody has raised that. That doomsday scenario yeah, i mean, it’s interesting. I’m not sure how you feel about it, i’m you know, without having a chance to sort of really study it, but there were over two hundred thousand comments that were sent when the first proposed these regulations to the department of labor. Most of them were pretty negative, and a lot of those negative comments came from non-profits that we’re saying, you know, first of all, we had no chance to really react because the rules come in place so quickly by december, and we didn’t really account for different geographic, you know, cost of living issues. So, you know, making you know that amount forty seven thousand in new york is probably one thing or san francisco and making it in oklahoma city or somewhere else, maybe very, very different. So there’s some really good criticisms about it and some difficulties, some non-profits especially in those rural areas that are going to have to face, on the other hand, they’re people that say, you know, we shouldn’t be taking advantage of workers just because we’re a non profit organization and paying them at a rate that’s below poverty level for a family of four. And that was the reason why the administration had justified that shift has not been changed since two thousand for so where twenty three thousand is below the poverty level. Yeah, family. In fact, i think the twenty three thousand is well below poverty level for a family of four serving one person making the income from that family okay? And where does the new forty six or forty seven and where’s that in respect to the poverty level, do you know what this is? How they defined it’s? I’m not exactly sure how they compare it exactly to where the poverty level is defined, but they say it represents the fortieth percentile of earnings the forty forty out of one hundred forty percent of that’s not very a fulltime salaried workers in the lowest wage census region, which is the south so forty percent out of full time salaried workers, that’s forty seven thousand in a place where the cost of living is lower, right is the lowest and okay in south. Okay. All right, well, you got to take these things, maybe incrementally, but it definitely, you know, it’s yeah. I mean, it has budget impact. And, you know, i’m not surprised that a lot of the comments from non-profits were negative. This this is gonna cost. Yeah, it’s definitely going to cost and it’s going to hurt some people in services, you know, maybe the counter is sometimes you’re gonna have to take some steps back is on on an organizational level. So on a national or or broader level, we’re moving forward. All right, gene, we’re gonna leave it there. I want to thank you very much. Thank you so much, tony. My pleasure. As always, jean takagi, you’ll find him at non-profit law block, dot com and also at g tak next week. Purpose driven branding and the new guide star platinum. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant. Online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuant dot com. Remember to check out the three hundredth show. Hope you’re gonna be with us july twenty ninth. You could play the music, sam, go ahead, don’t be shy. July twenty ninth, thirty three hundred show, sixth anniversary. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam lee broots is the line producer. Gavin dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and this music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address their card it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for January 8, 2016: Don’t Burn Out in 2016 & The PATH for Charities

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

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Paul Loeb: Don’t Burn Out in 2016

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Paul Loeb has been doing social change since the Vietnam War and his most recent books are “Soul Of a Citizen” and “The Impossible Will Take a Little While.” After nearly 50 years of activisim, he has a lot to recommend about keeping yourself motivated day-after-day. We talked at Opportunity Collaboration 2015 in Ixtapa, Mexico.

Gene Takagi: The PATH for Charities

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The PATH Act signed by President Obama late last month includes 3 key items for charities: IRA Rollover, conservation easements & food inventory gifts. Gene explains them all. He’s our legal contributor and principal of NEO, the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host happy new year to the live and podcast listeners happy new year again for our affiliate listeners. They had a special show last week. Happy new year, everybody! We have a listener of the week! Susan hurt on twitter she’s at susan hurt bassett. She has a thing for basset hounds clearly, and she volunteers at open door animal sanctuary in st louis, missouri. She volunteers and listens to non-profit radio, and she doesn’t merely listen, quote, i have learned a tremendous amount of valuable information from you, and i’m so inspired by your optimism and generosity, you are a true inspiration. Is that the best you can do? Susan really mean like no comparison even to god or anything like that? Susan hurt listener of the week congratulations and thank you so much for loving non-profit radio oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into a log. Akufo sis, if i heard you say the words i missed today’s show, don’t burn out in twenty sixteen paul lobe has been doing social change since the vietnam war and his most recent books are soul of a citizen, and the impossible will take a little while. After nearly fifty years of activism, he has a lot to recommend about keeping yourself motivated. Day after day, we talked that opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen in x top of mexico on the beach and the path for charities. The path act, signed by president obama just late last month, includes three key items for charities the ira rollover, permanent conservation easements and food inventory gif ts jean explains them all place he’s got some other stuff for us, he’s, our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group on tony’s take two thank you. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com. We’re also sponsored by crowdster online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits welcome crowdster and thank you for supporting non-profit radio crowdster dot com here is paul lobe don’t burn out in twenty sixteen. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen we’re back on the beach in x top of mexico with me is paul lobe. He’s, the author, most recently of soul of a citizen and the impossible, will take a little while, plus three other books before those those two have sold over a quarter million copies, you’ll find paul lobe the impossible dot org’s polo. Welcome to the show. Glad to be here. Thanks. I’m glad we’re together on the beach. I want to talk about avoiding burnout. A lot of your work for decades. Going back to the seventies is in activism. Citizen activism, right? Taco actually, let’s. Start with a cool story that i heard you tell about rosa parks. So it’s. Interesting. Because rosa parks is the sort of story that everyone thinks they know. You know, i can go. I can be overseas and people know the name. I can talk to eleven year olds and they know the name. Oh, yeah. She’s the lady on the bus. But what’s interesting to me is that most people know in a certain version and they know it as one day she was writing on this bus and sort of just feed retired. She just refused out of nowhere and single handedly launched the civil rights movement. You know, all by yourself is this lone heroic woman. And i get very frustrated when i hear that story because duitz it strips away the context that’s, so important. I understand that actually is much more empowering that that story. And so i look in there several elements. There’s the one he is that’s, their mistake, the element of community. So she at that point is the secretary of the end of the civil rights organization in montgomery, alabama. And she has worked for dozen years. With the co founded by her husband, that particular chapter was a barber in the city and she’s doing these sort of humble towns, like getting people to come to meetings and all the stuff that certainly is not going to make the history books or the network news or even page six of the local paper. And when you take that away and you take out all the other people that she’s working with, it becomes a sort of lone crusade, which is very much a mythology of our culture. I mean, you know, one of things i sometimes bright lad in the language around social on for ownership is lone hero. Super person. Yeah, but she’s part of a community that she’s built and there’s others in it. There’s ah, a union organizer, gotomeeting nixon who’s, the head of the local. At that point, he’s, the person who gets a very young and reluctant martin luther king involved king is all these excuses. He’s young he’s, new in town is king was reluctant to join. He was reluctant to join. Yeah, he’s reluctant step for we think of them as leaping forward, but at that point he has not really fully he’s not embraced that path. He’s still, you know well, i i’ve got divinity school. I’m going to be a minister and it’s not at all clear, that that’s going to be his direction. So he’s looking, i think warily at it and there’s a phrase i used the perfect standard, which is the notion that you need to know everything be the perfect place in your life be the combination of sort of albert einstein, gandhi, king wonder woman, mother grace, you know, add seven other people. You know, none of us is ever going to get there so and it’s also about the perfect time and place. And of course he he’s saying, well, it’s not the perfect time in place. I’m too young. I’m do knew all the excuses, you know, in his case elements of truth, but he’s their excuses. And so it’s nixon, who persists, gets king involved. And montgomery is where the world hears the king as well as in rosa parks. So when you strip that away and you make it the long hero, it ends up, i would say, being very disempowering to people, even though think it’s an inspiring story because they have to be as her work as the perceived the problem with rosa parks pristine rosa parks as opposed to the real heroism which is doing the stuff day after day after day hyre and then the second element is that they think it is a sort of accidental action. One day, her feet hurt buy-in there she wasn’t the first person refused to move to the back of the bus. There was a young woman who was actually unmarried and pregnant, they decided not from the youth section not to build a campaign around because they’re up against enough as it is latto strategic decision and these parks had got the summer before arrests, going to trainings at a place called highlander center labor and civil rights center still going in tennessee despite being burned at once by the group klux klan and so she’s meeting with an earlier generation of civil rights activists smaller moving but still certainly present and when she acts it’s intentional, intentional doesn’t mean she knows the outcome. I always said that, there’s a two, two aspects one is, you’ve gotta have a leap of faith, the minister, jim waller’s from the social justice magazine, sojourner says hope is believing in spite of the evidence and then watching the evidence change. Yeah, so, you know, by your actions, you change and you have believe in faith about the possibility, but right next to that is intentionality, which just means you’ll be strategic. So you’re looking at you’re saying, ok, what you want accomplished? How do we get there? Who are allies are the obstacles? How do we get the resource is how do we carry it out? How do we tell our stories? All the practical stuff? Of course they had to deal with that montgomery and and when parks took that leap, she also knew that it was going to be part of intentional campaign. They would run his best they could, and, you know, they’d see where late and it is, yeah, i love the story because of the intentionality aspect, and that leads us to the social change work the people are doing now, right? And where we get to the potential for burn out in all this day after day after day after work that is so intentional and so time consuming, right? And and so and so emotionally fraught. And the stakes could be, like death and disappointing. Yes. And i just pointing, yeah, yeah, you know, never enough resource is all of those kinds of things. So so i think there’s a third element that’s missing is perseverance, which is okay, you know, twelve years, if she gives up in your tender rate, we’ve never so and so and so that that carries into that question of burnout resisted. You have to keep going. So let’s, spend some time talking about empowering people toe, right? Not burn out in their day to day work as they’re going about their struggles. Where? Wherever in the world yeah, you you believe a lot in support and they do. And the disempowerment of isolation, isolation is the killer. I mean, when you feel like you’re the only one, you’re up against everything, but when you change it to okay, we’re up against a lot. But there is a on the wii doesn’t have to be thousands of people. It can be three or four people that are the ones that you rely on but it’s so easy. I mean, i i find myself i run a project. That i found it that gets students engaged in elections using the resource is of the colleges and universities shut that out, what’s the name, the campus election engagement project, listselect dot or yeah, it’s really demanding on, you know, re sources and on also sometimes, you know, really hard personnel situations and, you know, because this comes up, you hire people and sometimes problems that you and i, rem number one particularly acute situation, which really wass i mean, it was just the kind of thing we are going to details that just wrenches your heart, wrenches yourself on it had the potential to destroy the organization and and just trying to deal with my own and then, you know, call. I talked to a friend who we have really wonderful street newspaper in seattle where i live real change that we’re homeless, people sell it, and it’s, partly professional staff partly almost poses a great model and, you know, i just called my friend who ran it it’s like, ok, tim, why don’t i d’oh it’s like, you know, you really you know, this is something that you can’t you’re not large enough to handle this on your area on you know, you just hear this, you have to be ableto, you know, hard as it is to say, this person can’t be apart the organization because, you know, it’s just this otherwise you’ll be in constant crisis that we need to have support yeah, it could be it could be colleagues similarly situated in the community or across the country, right? Yeah, i could be with funders even made the tech with technologies we have, you know, it doesn’t have to be geographically focused, yeah, but you do have tohave and you have to have a team of folks i mean, on the other side is we’re doing, like, i mean, i’m asking people in my election project to basically take the culture of a college or university, get access to the administration, and we go in through some networks that they tend to work with, but even still, you know, and the student government convinced them to do something that they haven’t done before, or now that some of them now they have done because they worked with us, which is to make a priority of registering their students to vote and getting to reflect on issues and helping them turn out of the poles and all non partisan does this last? Lorts yeah, and i mean, we’re just think, okay, here it is, here’s how we’ve done it before go do it and so it’s hard. So, you know, part of even like, working it’s harder working virtually, but we have our conference calls each, you know, in the heat of it geever and me, we’re gonna do a video and we don’t go hang out or whatever, and we’re supporting each other, we’re appreciating each other’s successes were brain streaming through the do the project, we also have coaching the cohesion in the group is what sort of were being extremely were being extremely intentional cohesion doesn’t happen automatically were laughing and making jokes were talking about did something cool happened in your personal life? Two be able to sort of give people the sense that it’s not just because in our particular case, they really are physically on their own there’s not somebody in an office, but they’re off on a college campus know whether off where if they happen to live, and then they’re either talking by phone or visit making site. This is tow campuses, but they don’t have the calling next to them. So we try and very intentionally create that community because otherwise they will burn you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Yeah. About in in recruitment, there’s gotta be there’s gotta be things that you look for bringing people to the organization that are going to help create this cohesion, you know, it’s a good question, i’m not, and i wouldn’t say i’ve always been perfect at it. I would have had my share of fallibility, but i do think that, you know, as i learn and we all do, you know, that being able to i mean, have a strong sense of self but also know that you’re not going to do it all on your own know that you’re going to be working with others no, that have a sense of humor. I mean, if you’ve got a sense of humor and helps help cement slim and you see people in just, you know, dealing with the hardest possible, heart wrenching situations and there’s a sort of i mean, somebody called gallows humor, which french trenches humor has in-kind wartime or whatever guys get you through it’s so important in prison culture, they talk about the brotherhood of suffering, yeah, it helps to be that cohesive group, right? And so, you know, one of the stories i tell in the impossible. Take a little while is you know, they’re breaking it. Robben island prison in south africa. You know, they’re telling mandela and all those other folks, you know, you are going to rot here. The world has forgotten about you. You will never leave here alive. They isolate him in every way they can. And so they’re breaking rocks in a prison courtyard and they start whistling a freedom song and just just that, you know, okay, we’re not allowed to have this political conversation, but we all know what this means, and they’re they’re ice. They’re denied newspapers and, you know, further isolate him and they see a guard. Who’s got his tuna fish sandwich wrapped in a newspaper and throws, you know, it’s sam with sores on his paper in the trash, i take it, you know, surreptitiously under their shirt, they see a story that they think might give each other heart. And in a kind of coded script on toilet paper’s only paper. Most of them had access to the right, you know, just something that will tell that story of the outside world so that you are connected to the outside world into each other and then they pass it hand in hand, you know, when they’re waiting, you know, had lunch or whatever, but they have a chance in the yard. Yeah, so it’s just it’s those air extreme situations, but they also suggests to me that and this is the lesson of both soul of a citizen and be impossible to take a little while that in any situation, you know, you don’t have to be faced in prison. But if you’re doing difficult work, you need that camaraderie. You need that community. And you have got to be, you know, recently intentional about trading it about the scope of the work of the organization being judicious about what the organization takes on, right. So it’s not straying from mission and and stressing stressing in killing staff? Well, yeah, i think we are. I mean, i think we all face that challenge because if you’re trying to do something, i mean, i have the needs are so great, the needs are so great. And i always encourage people to think really large and to tackle big systems on a lot of times. There’s a tendency to sort of yeah, which describe it. It’s i think there’s a value in that more delimited personal work, it’s i don’t want to demean it in any way. Hyre but i remember stanford students saying very well meaning lee um, i’ve learned so much volunteering at this homeless shelter, i hope my grandchildren get the opportunity to volunteer at the same homeless shelter that i have and as his friends sort of try to gently remind him that really wasn’t the point. And so if you’re working at the homeless shelter, which is great, you wantto look upstream and you want to be able to say, okay, what am i learning from this one on one encounter? And how do i buy-in with others and joined together others to tackle homelessness on a larger platform? Because if you don’t it’s just going to the endless parade of need, so i think that that’s true and at the same time, well, where do you draw the bounds? And you look around at the issues and there poverty and inequality and climate change and, you know, went on and on, you know, police violence, i’ve got stuff on on on how do you deal with all of it? And so i think part of it is just you do have to think about what your capacity is. You do have to think about the past people. I tend to be somebody who thinks large and tries to get my project and staff to think large and probably, you know, maybe drives them a little too hard. But by my national directories is one of twenty eight year old is pretty good at balancing. All right? You know, this is what we can ask people to do. And if they do it, well, that will matter. But i have this wonderful friend who i nufer years who died at a hundred to is an environmental activist. And of course, you know what time she reaches our, you know, late eighties and nineties, um, you know, you’re asking your weather sees her secret of longevity is certainly but also her secret of being able to keep doing this work. Yeah, on dh. So, you know, one of the phrases she does that you know, you you do what you can, you can’t do everything you have to say no to people, but you could do what you can and then you could do some more, and you could do that your entire life. And then she also another point she was talking about reviving our spirits and she said, you know, you go kayaking, you go hiking, shooting both into her nineties, and she gets the mist of a smile and she says, then you come back ready to take on exxon, you know, so she’s willing to take on exxon, but she also knows that she has to go do those other things to renew her soul, you know? And, you know, and humor and just she on this sort of goes to the recruitment to you, right? You recruiting hole people? Yeah, you have other interests beyond the work that you’re you’re hiring them for your not recruiting robot? Yeah, no, absolutely. And so i think having, you know, having people who really are just i mean, it’s hard because i always when people are passionate about the car, but also but not one dimensional, but no one dimension. Yeah, yeah, and not, you know, we’re not recruiting robots. What about the idea of the bored as potential support you, you know, in times again, times of burnout. We’re not talking about yeah, fiduciary responsibilities, but hyre valuable to have a couple of trusted board members who, you know, i would you can’t trust confide in i mean, i would say the trusted people can be anywhere, so i think, you know, if they’re on the board that’s terrific, you know? And there was also i mean, sometimes you sort of worry, will you exposure in, er, you know, the afraid of the classic phrase about politics and sausage making it’s like you really don’t want to see how the sausage is made? I mean, there was there at least those those sure are mediators and made sausage sometimes i really don’t want to see how it’s made and, you know, do you expose the inner workings that boardmember than thinking, oh, my god, this is like, you know, we’re in crisis, we’re in crisis, you know, you know, and the same things too, with funders, i mean, certainly myself, you know, there’s funders who i have a very serious, trusting relationship you really do want to know and who i trust if they recognise that oh, everything is not going perfectly, but this is true in any organization and is not and is perfectly compatible with doing astounding work. You know, i remember i had a staffer once was running operation brilliant, brilliant guy and you, you know, innovated. A lot of the things that moved us forward is an organization about at one point he liked to plan, which is good because he brought. He brought us to a higher level of planning, and planning is really good, but at one point, he said, it’s supposed to election, he said, you planned all this stuff out and, you know, it’s all going out, it’s all happening, different blade. Yeah, and i’m like and yes, and that’s always going to be the way it isthe it is gonna happen differently and the planning with good and it makes us respond, you know more effectively, but there’s always going to be if you’re doing anything worthwhile, ambitious enough to be worthwhile, there are always gonna be things coming in from left field and purples and what not and it’s just how about sort of going backto what the one hundred two year old activist saying she kayaks, etcetera, right? And he’s mischievous? I mean, she remember us hundred two years, i think, like he was busy in your party little chablis apartment lived on second, section eight subsidence dilgence social security, which, when she was twenty three years old, is a young union activist should help lobbied through one of the first public pension programs in america became a model for social security, so something she didn’t twenty three or four benefits there are ninety eight and nine, one hundred, and i think her i can’t see what she was talking about her landlord and said, well, you know what? If something happens, you know? Yeah, just dig a hole in the backyard didn’t pretty small letter and take up my case, you know? She just was she didn’t know there was one point. Yeah, there was a reason in central america something there was a congressman did she met. It was very active in the audubon society and who very condescendingly in the way that when does towards the old and the young i said to her, oh, so i hear you’re a birdwatcher like isn’t that? And she said, yes, there’s a lot of birds in washington d c but been watching these days, but i was thinking of the kayaking, she she takes care of herself, she takes care of its just got this wonderful sense of humor, right? And she’s a kayaker and yes, you know, so having similar to recruiting people who aren’t one dimensional, not being one dimensional yourself. Yeah, i mean, you do have to take care of yourself. You do? I’m a big proponent of naps. Yeah, i’ve blogged about the the the the love i have for napping. But whatever it is you do, you need to have something outside. Yeah, yeah, i know. And it’s true and, you know, and again, i think we all wrestle with i mean, i certainly rest that it’s like, yeah, you know, my wife’s going out to see a play? I’m she works very. She works very hard, but in a more contained space, probably ad, you know, and i’m like, yeah, i got this deadline i got to do this, you know? But you know, if i over the years, i’m a runner. And run early sixties been running since i’m fifteen and fortunately, my knees haven’t given out and so, you know, if i go run, i also live in seattle, so i get to run by water. But, you know, if i’m traveling, lecturing on the road, it’s, like i take a break, which because i make it sound like my living, you know, i take a break and i run along usually if there’s water around, i’m going to run along the river or the stream of the, you know, whatever the lake and it just, you know, physically, it flushes me, you know, the toxicity out of you, but it also just, you know, it gives you a space and it’s it’s, you feel better afterwards? Endorphins, there’s lot to be said for endorphins, flood flow. All that stuff suppressing the stress hormones. Yeah, yeah, i can think of offhand. Well, dahna general in one of them. Yeah. Suppressing those. Yeah, and building up endorphins. And yet, yeah. And i think also things like diet. Yeah. He’s getting enough sleep? Yeah, yeah. I mean, i called. I mean, i called the holy trinity of, you know, exercise diet, which includes, um, good supplements. So yeah. Okay. Now, now, there’s not a not on the suicide. Very practical. And you know what? Yeah, you are dealing with serious dressed. This will help. Uh, this will lower your cortisone there’s. Another right doesn’t stretch on and, you know, and sleep, were i my sleep tends not to be that great. So i just figure okay, i’m gonna log nine hours to get a where you get seven and a half, okay? You know, and you know, and that helps about switch gears a bit to the two donor-centric dahna burnout, right? You know, i’ve been doing this. I’ve been supporting this cause a long time. I feel like it’s time to move on. I need any advice around that. Well, i think part of what happens is people have this constant pressure to sort of see the quick short term results and a lot of times howard’s in new york by accepting the impossible take a little while, the greatest story. And he talks about the optimism of uncertain you don’t know when the moment will turn you go backto parks of all the wasn’t like she was doing lots of things for twelve years as they all were one of them little spark. But you couldn’t anticipate which and so i think, it’s, very it’s. Very easy to sort of say that success is for human dignity that we’ve had were inevitable civil rights movement. Of course. Eventually they would have revealed gay rights in eventually. Well, our environmental challenges open question whether we will be able to you do what we need. Well, we are able to do what we need climate change. But they have the will is yeah, the will for it. I mean, right now, you know, the technology is there. Renewables have now passed, you know, they are cheaper than coal. There are equal with fossil fuel without any externalities at all. And you know, when next molly’s it’s not even close, so but will we have the political will? I don’t know. Um, it depends on us and you and the stakes are pretty ultimate because, you know, we’re talking about the habitability of the planet. So, you know, when i when i look at it, you know what i what i see is donors being subject to the same schools is the rest of us, but possibly possibly in a more immediate way because they’re not actual sum of money but a lot of making sure they aren’t in the field, they’re they’re dealing with, you know, with them, you know, then the publicans of hands, possibly and it’s so and they’re getting reports, but they may not even have time to read the reports and, you know, depends on how good the people are a storytelling and so i think and, you know, let’s, be honest, at least some issues, they they may be insulated by privilege, they’re not, you know, they’re not seeing in their social circle, and i remember talking with one of our funders, and she said, well, she has a couple different pieces, like one of her groups, they are just not always down in silicon valley, they are just not at all concerned about this stuff at all and, you know, so she’s in an environment that is not reinforcing her concern yeah, yeah, that’s but, you know, that makes it harder to continue as a donor, then everyone’s talking about these urgent issues and oh, yeah and, you know, here you are, so you’re trying to address them, so i think you know, the challenges well for the rest of us, to try and offer that perspective in our work, which is hard because we’re often mean again, the stakes couldn’t be life and death, you know, they’re huge, even if they’re not immediately life and death wait care passionate about our summit is to myself, it’s like this is what we can do, and we want to put these many people on the ground in our states in time to really work with the school’s for this election and the clock is ticking and, you know, so theo, from the donor perspective, if you want to try and really see that long term, you know, i mean, and of course, you want to be rigorous and you want all the rest of this stuff, but not get but see that long term goal is here long term goal recognize the the short term, the short term impacts we can have, right? And but you also see the longer the wait and see how things build on the other thing i think is, you know, there’s a certain, you know, i would argue that our our culture, including certain the non-profit donor intersection, has that has adopted on obsession with certain kinds of measurement to the detriment of other kinds of metro meant measurement. And so it’s, metrix, metrix, metrix, metrix. And i mean, i mean, i’ve been seattle in a city where it’s particularly talks because we’ve got a tech culture. And yeah, some of the numbers could be exceptionally important. Question about that. But here’s, a story that embodies the process of what’s occurring. That can be equally indicative. And so when you’re trying to evaluate impact, which is a reasonable and good things, you want to take that broad, long term picture. And you want to get the understand all the different ripples of a particular organization you’re supporting our considering supporting on. That that’s that can be as warm or important. Then then the numbers, you know, and not to dismiss the numbers, you know, but another way of measuring there’s qualitative his bed storytelling as well. Yeah, but, you know, in which can include numbers which can include numbers the air of i mean, you know, when i talked to donors, they know we have some very good numbers on our project. Yeah. Mark, best calculations. A couple hundred thousand students who voted our last year who wouldn’t have otherwise? This is huge, you know, for a tiny minute budget of labbate. Ah, half less than half a million dollar budget for that level of impact is amazing. Yeah, yeah. You have about a minute left or so you’ve been doing activism. What? Forty some years? Forty something years. It creeps up on you. What do you love about it? Why do you keep forty you? Why so long? What do you love? Well, some of it’s that the work continues to need to be doing dahna but some of it is that you do. I think the old skills and you build a sense of capability. And you can see things happen that you’ve done or and this is what i would say is that every way the books that i write try a likely impossible soul try to connect people to a broader stream of people working for such for social justice that started way before any of us were born and is going to continue long after we die. And if we feel connected that stream, it can help carry us, and we can help carry others. Add to me that’s a lot of what keeps me doing it because it means that not only do i have a community that supports in the current time, but i have a community historical time, which i could see is supporting, and that makes you an awful lot of difference. Follow-up he’s written five books, most recent, our soul of a citizen and the impossible will take a little while you’ll find him at the impossible dot org’s paul, thank you so much. My pleasure. A real pleasure talking to you. Thanks a lot. On the beach on the durney martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration. Twenty fifteen. Thanks so much for being with us. Boy was good listening. To that beach on dh paul lobe sharing so much jean takagi and the path act for charities coming up first. Pursuant you know them, they’ve been with non-profit radio for six months supporting us. They have fund-raising management software for small and midsize shops. It’s it’s that simple. Use the tools you need and don’t subscribe to the other ones. I presume you need to raise more money in twenty sixteen than you did twenty fifteen growth is good, they’ve got the tools to help you do that like they’re a prospector and velocity. So check him out. You know what? What? Ah, they’re ideal for small and midsize non-profits what’re you waiting for for pizza pursuant dot com welcome crowdster just like it sounds they do crowdfunding, but not the usual. Their crowd funding sites are elegant and simple and fast, so easy for your admin, though in the back end and super easy for your donors. I had two long talks with ceo joe ferraro, and we both decided that crowdster is perfect for non-profit radio listeners, in fact, he runs a charity himself, which helps orphans globally, and he runs crowdster on the the guy likes to stay busy. What can you say? Um, you can talk to him. You know how i love picking up the phone and talking to people to do business. Give him a call. Five one, six, five o one, ninety three, double six if you want to check them out first crowdster dot com they really do make very good looking sites. Now. It’s time for tony’s. Take two. Thank you for loving non-profit radio over the holidays. I read the testimonials on itunes, which ah, i got a couple of non-profit radio listener that’s what he or she called themselves said tony’s, an animated host who knows how to conduct a good interview black oak games. Even though tony is interviewing the guests, it feels natural and they have a true, too way conversation, which i really appreciate. Back-up richard tony’s, a skillful interviewer who attracts great expert guests, thank you so much for that and all the other comments that air on on itunes and the other feedback i get, especially on twitter, thank you so much. I don’t even i don’t even have a sarcastic come back for those just thank you and you know, i hope. That i always do want your feedback, good or bad? That’s tony’s, take two. I got chink takagi on the line. You know, jean takagi is the managing attorney of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He and it’s the wildly popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he’s at g tack on twitter happy new year jean takagi. Happy new year durney great to be here. Thank you again. This would be your fifth year. I believe we’re beginning your five. I think it’s been a good long run. I’m glad. Glad to have you back another year. That’s. Amazing. Tony and its great teo continue having our conversation. So thank you. All right, um, before we get into the path act, there is something that you alerted me to just happened yesterday. The irs had this proposal for acknowledging gif ts of two hundred fifty dollars, or more. And they have withdrawn the proposal. Can you can you get us up to date? Sure. Um, and so that’s. Ah ah, great new happening for the nonprofit sector. Although we have cem cem maybe controversial or dissenting about about that, we’ll get there. Go. Ahead. Okay. Object in your presentation, please. So let’s, start by saying what? What? What? The proposal wass and it was for providing an alternative for donors tio evidence that they actually have made a charitable contribution of two hundred fifty dollars, arm or under existing laws, donors are required to have a written receipt that contains certain information, including, you know what, the chick who the charity is, what amount of the contribution is, and importantly, there must be a statement on that receipt that says no goods or services were provided by the charity and return assuming that was the case. If donors don’t maintain that receipt, then they could get their deductions denied, even if they had actually made the contributions right. The time of getting that receipt, they must have that receipt in hand, or it must have been prepared before the donor files their tax return. It’s no good to do it after they’ve been audited and can’t produce that. So that was the original problem. So the irs said, well, you know, we should make up a rule that allows the charity tow, have some responsibility as well if they opto have it and it is really important which you’ve pointed out to me, said it is optional for the charity under this new rule, which ultimately was withdrawn. But the proposal was that the charity could file another information, return to the irs with the donor’s name, the amount of the contribution and the donor’s social security number, and that would be in lieu of providing a proper receipts the donor, and meeting those requirements of having a proper written receipt so that would evidence a charitable contribution to charity would take on the burden at its options, and you go about it there’s that the donor loses the receipt, or the charity didn’t issue the receipt with the right information about that no goods or services were provided to the charity. In return, it was still ok, everything was good. The donation was good because charity filed that information return with the irs, that evidence the contribution, that that the big dispute about that and why a lot of non-profit organizations, especially the big advocacy and national organisations got upset was because of the social security numbers that the non-profits would have to collect if they wanted to file that return, right? Ok, s o the need for the social security number makes sense because that’s the identifying part, may that’s the identifying the piece of data so it’s clear why it’s needed, and i just want to point out that this has been a problem just taking a little step back. It’s been a problem where donors and you and i have talked about this, so i make it clear for everybody. Donors have had their deductions denied because they don’t get or don’t keep well, i guess it’s more don’t get from the from the non-profits that contemporaneous acknowledgment that they need so this has been a problem area. And as you said, iris was trying to address it. You were, i’ll give you first shot we have is we didn’t really have a difference of opinion on the substance of this, that there was something around it that was troubling me. But you were very much opposed to this and a lot of others. You’re right. The big dick secure. Oops around the concern about that having that social security number metoo yeah. Thanks for letting me first time. Yeah. You know, the big problem is identity theft is a huge and growing problem both for individuals and the country itself. Identity theft is a huge problem, and the federal government has been i’m saying as a matter of policy, t people into agencies don’t collect social security numbers unless you absolutely have to, because there’s a danger in not adequately protecting them. So if non-profits opted to do this, they would have to make sure that they had adequate protections not to allow those social security numbers to get into other people’s hands. Andi so that was one of the big problems is could non-profit adequately protect the social security numbers if they didn’t really understand the rules regarding protection of what it’s called personally identifiable information that would allow people teo steal a person’s identity and there are a lot of laws around that and non-profits probably don’t know many of those laws and might accept the burden of taking on the ocean security numbers and filing that new information returned because they didn’t know about the laws, and that would create more liability for charities. That was the big problem. The other problem that comes up a scam artist would now be able to call donors. And ask for their social security numbers on behalf of a charity that they know that the donors are associating with so they might show up at a charity event. No, get to meet some people there, give them a call and ask for the social security numbers is part of the scam saying that they represent the charity, get that social security number and then commit identity, you know, theft that way as well. But those are a couple of the big, big problem that we had with this and, well, i’ll let you go next, and i have an additional tried t try to be civil about these things now in the place where we different was was not the substance i agree with your concerns and all the other agencies and and bloggers who are concerned about the substance of what opting in would mean my disagreement was why do we presume? It seemed like so many people were presuming that non-profits weren’t bright enough? Tow opt out of this, remember it’s totally optional. So why are we presuming that non-profits would opt in with great, vast unawareness of what it means to protect someone? Social security number versus presuming that the non-profits would say, you know that that opens up it’s up to some real potential liability and expenses of protection and software. So let us not opt in it’s a great point, and i don’t want to be little the expertise on dh ah skill that that non-profit leaders bring throughout the country, and certainly there are smart leaders throughout the sector, and the sector is the most trusted of all of the sectors by far and there’s reason for that. On the other hand, tony, last five years we’ve had more than six hundred thousand non-profit organisations lose their tax exemptions for failure to file with the irs. We’ve also had probably more than half of the organization’s they’ll tow register and states to engage in charitable solicitations in the state. Um, and, you know, part of that has to do just with a failure to understand some of the laws that may apply in the laws change from time to time, creating new requirements, which is case with the irs and smaller non-profits having to file all of a sudden, but also there had been a lack of really enforcement by different agencies. On non-profits because non-profits were trusted so much and a lot of scandals that have been coming up, you know, mostly because of the media attention that focused on a really pew of very isolated number. But very bad actors now has raised the enforcement level from from all the agencies. And because non-profits are not used to this level enforcement, it could easily oversee the neto to really adequately protect itself on legal compliance issues and that’s what we see a lot really well intentioned non-profits really bright leaders, but not being used to this level of enforcement. That’s our big concern with social security numbers. All right, let’s, go out for a break, gene, you and i’ll keep talking about this subject for just ah, a couple of minutes after the break, and then we got to move on to the path act. Um all right, so keep it civil. I do have to have something to say in response, but let’s, let’s, take a break and gene and i’ll be right back. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email. Tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact, i guess, directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m ken berger from charity navigator. We have such a treasure trove of drops that occasionally people move on. So that was king burger, formerly ceo of charity navigator. Sam will have teo to take that one out of the rotation, but there are many others. Okay, jeanne, now you mentioned the way can’t devote a couple more minutes of this and we’ll get carried away. You mentioned, you know, the six hundred thousand or so now that lost their tax exempt status for failure to file three years in a row, even just a little return little postcard. But we know that a lot of those were defunct, you know, out of out of commission organizations. Not all but a lot of those were that were so they wouldn’t be soliciting. Continue. Teo, get donations anyway of any size. All right? And then you you mentioned charity registration that hits my sweet spot. Of course, we know that i do that part of my practices, keeping charity’s compliant in each state where they are soliciting donations on your right there’s a lot of lack of awareness. I say that a lot when i’m speaking in training and even for those who are aware there’s a lot of misunderstanding of it. So i i grant that i just ah, sametz dahna from, you know, it’s, just the seams, the constant presumption that charity’s won’t figure it out and do it correctly. Andi, just not up to opt in. Ah. Okay, i guess. You know, i’m pretty much just repeating myself. I don’t know anything else you want to. You want to add to that to that discussion? Well, i’ll just add that if donors really want to be sure that they’re going to get a deduction, they should really just ask the charities to make sure that they maintain permanently the receipt that was issued to them at the time. So if the donor loses at the charity will maintain it permanently, or at least for the number of years where they could go back, um, to make that deduction and that will have the same effect. Okay. Okay. But i mean, donors have responsibility too. You know, the charity sends you an acknowledgement letter or e mails it to you. You want to save it, you know. Ah, charity’s only do so much for tow. Hand hold their donors and then it becomes the donor’s. Fault. Really? Okay. Um, let’s move to the path act protecting americans against tax hike. I believe as a path and there’s ah, there’s stuff in there for charities. And most significantly, the ira rollover made permanent. Yeah, i mean it’s a really interesting act and is part of this greater bill that was signed into law but there’s three charitable giving provisions that were originally established this temporary laws and year by year they were extended for for the following year. But because congress would wait until, like, december of each year to make retroactive so effective for the previous night, that was so annoying, they would do it like november or october or something and give you, you know, thirty days or sixty days to market and promote it infinite into your your fourth quarter, but busiest time fund-raising plan. It was crazy. Yeah, and sometimes it what? There wasn’t enough time, particularly with the ira charitable roll over. So let’s talk about the diver roll over first, so that the provisions of the ira charitable roll over, which was first available in two thousand seven, allowed individuals age seventeen and a half older to donate up to one hundred thousand from their traditional or their roth iras latto eligible public charity. So no donor buy-in funds, no private foundations, no supporting work. And you didn’t have to count those distributions to charities as taxable income. Yes, very important. Yeah. And so that would be separate because i mean otherwise. At seventeen and a half, you have to start taking distribution from your iras and that’s typically taxable income to you. So instead of taking it and then making a gift of it, which you know you could get a terrible contribution from you just don’t include it in your income. It all right? So right. The nice thing about about that if you don’t get it, actually not included his income and take a charitable deduction because that would be double dipping, but but you don’t reflected in your gross income, which has a lot of different benefits that it that are even better than it’s been getting a charitable deductions so you don’t want to recognize it is income and then take it as a deduction. You want to make sure this is done right? Which means that the ira has to be made directly to the public charity and eggs. I can’t go through you first as an individual and then tow a public charity. Right there is there is an exception to that gene. If, ah, one of the years it was, it was available, there was ah, you know what they call them? Not private letter rulings, but attacks alert or something that if the charity writes the check payable to the sorry the ira custodian, your ira custodian writes the cheque payable to the charity and sends that to you and then you that you then convey that check to the charity that’s. Okay, that that does qualify as a as what? This is really a qualified charitable distributions. Technically, not a roll over, but i just want to say so that’s a possibility. And the other way, the other group of people that this could be really valuable for is non itemizers. Because if you’re not itemizing you, don’t you don’t earn a chat, you know, claim a charitable federal income tax deduction. You take the standard deduction, but you can benefit from this. Roll over and be a non itemizers. Still get the benefit? Yeah. That’s absolutely right. So most people don’t itemize their deductions, so getting a lower growth income on dh, lower taxable income, in effect is much, much better than nothing at all, which is what would happen if you’re a non itemizers and you make a gift to cherish and, of course, that’s a big benefit. Also another benefit of a lower growth income, which would happen by making the charitable roll over, is that your tax treatment of social security benefits is better and you have a lower medicare premium as well, right there they’re all based on taxable income thresholds, right? Exactly right? So the extent you can keep your taxable income lower, you’ll you’ll get you’ll have greater benefits in the store security area and and others too very true, and we don’t want to get too much into this, i think is an hour to go through them, but another big benefit of certain states charging income tax to their residents, the state income tax, but i don’t recognize a charitable contribution deduction for state income tax purposes, but they will take the lower growth income based on the charitable contribution exactly made from from the ira. So again, another benefit that you wouldn’t get if you took in the ira as income and then made a gift out, so this rollover provisions is really beneficial and has been seen tio for the years that it’s been around has been seen to be a very, very valuable tool for forgetting jean. We have to we have to move past that now because we promised people all three components of the path act and we only have about a minute and a half left, so i’m going to sort of summarize the first one for gifts of food inventory. Non si corporations can now can now deduct ah greater amount up to their basis there there cost plus fifty percent of the fair market value and for non si corpse that used to be limited to just your basis in that food inventory. If i even the playing field now so that small businesses could get the same benefit big businesses which are typical, see corporations so really nice to see that you can get not only a deduction of your coffee of the food that you’re donating, but half of the profits you would have made if you sold it and well. Seymour contributions from food to food banks because of that. Excellent. Okay. And you got to be concise on the third one. I’ll let you go. We just have a minute left. Okay? Landowners can deduct the value of a conservation easements land that they’re giving up their development rights over so that there’s preserve preservation natural resource is the old rule. Thirty percent of your adjusted gross income for up to six years could be deducted. The new rule. Fifty percent of your adjusted gross, thinkin and up to sixteen years. So really promoting land conservation. That’s why i let gene explain it. You see how much more articulately and concisely he does it than i do. Thank you, jean. Thanks. Study. Jean takagi, managing attorney of neo non-profit exempt organizations, law group and our monthly legal contributor. You’ll find him on twitter at g tak g t a next week. Tips from maria part do maria sample back with smart tips from her book magnify your business if you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com where in the world else would you go? There’s little flat on go i’m still thinking about this for twenty sixteen, i’m not. I’m not sure. Responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled pursuing dot com. We’re also sponsored by crowdster. Welcome again, online and mobile fund-raising software for non-profits crowdster dotcom are creative producers. Claire meyerhoff, sam legal, which is the line producer. Gavin dollars, are am and fm outreach director, and the show’s social media is by dina russell. Our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and degree. Yeah. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony, talk to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

Nonprofit Radio for October 30, 2015: Don’t Be The Founder From Hell & Chilling Laws And Regs

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Jim Nowak: Don’t Be The Founder From Hell

Jim Nowak heads fundraising for the dZi Foundation, which he founded. How did he and the Foundation manage his transition from executive director to chief fundraiser? He talks candidly about the board, job descriptions, ego and more. We talked at Opportunity Collaboration 2015.

 

 

Gene Takagi: Chilling Laws And Regs

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host it’s our halloween show ghosts and goblins and ghouls hope you enjoy your happy halloween this weekend and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with carp itis if you came up with the inflammatory idea that you missed today’s show, don’t be the founder from hell, jim, no ac heads fund-raising for the zi foundation, which he founded. How did he and the foundation manage his transition from executive director to chief fundraiser? He talks candidly about the board job descriptions, ego and mohr. We talked at opportunity collaboration just a couple of weeks ago and chilling laws and regs thes air no tricks. Jean takagi has actual and proposed laws that will scare you into action. He’s, our legal contributor and principle of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group on tony’s take two between the guests tech videos from mexico we’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com here’s jim nowak and the founder from hell from opportunity collaboration welcome to tony. Martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen were on the beach in x top of mexico. My guest is jim no act he’s, president and co founder of zi foundation. They’re at deasy i that’s deltas, delta zulu, india from my air force days dot org’s dc i dot or ge, and we’re talking about avoiding being the founder from hell. Jim is not that jim. Welcome. Thanks, tony, for having me on the show. Appreciate it. It’s a pleasure. I’m glad we got together. What? Two days ago, right? I think we’re connected. And, um, all right, you’re not the founder from hell, and we are gonna take this really have one side of the story, so i don’t have it. I’m trusting you because one of your board to collaborate to corroborate your your side. But you’re doing a session here. Yeah, i presume you’ve been. You’ve been vetted. Yeah, i’ve done done the session for the six years i’ve been coming. Job pretending collaboration. I keep offering. You know, i don’t need to do the session, but it seems as i always say, nobody ends up at that session by mistake, you know, people and it’s been interesting people, aaron, really tough situations, very emotional, you know that the social sector is a tough space to be in and their people are very passionate and it can be really charged, but we do our best to try to give people some tools, maybe walk through these these these difficult situations, all right? And in the six years i’ve been doing, you’ve never been challenged by anyone who said, no, that guy is the ceo. That guy he’s the founder from hell, no never had that challenge, but haven’t i know, but there, you know, again, i would say i only have one perspective to bring to it there are people that have different perspectives and say that would never work that are absolutely, and i’ve had some of them as guests, but but we’re getting the founders perspective, which i haven’t had before. Yeah, um, let’s, start with your history with the organization. I’m the cofounder and now i sit is president. We started our work in the fall. Seventeen years ago. It was around an expedition that had been climbing in the fall for a number of years and small expedition to climb memoria twenty three thousand four hundred foot what’s. The name of it from maury fremery. Yeah, three miles to the west of everest, on the nepal tibet border. Doing a new route has never been climbed. I was on there in eighty nine. Now back in ninety eight and in ninety eight found out about small girls home that was financially failing, huh? Raised money in my local community to help bail this girl’s home out. That was the genesis of our work. Where’s. Your community. Where were you living then? I was living the vail, colorado, that and shortly after that moved to where were based now in ridgeway, colorado, southwest corner of colorado. Down by telling. Right. Okay. And how long have you not been the executive director? I was executive director for the first thirteen years. Okay? And then we started into a process of identifying we wanted to shift from there and bring someone in with better financial skills than than myself. But and it was early, early on, it was identified by my board that they want me to say connected to the organization i carried the history carried. A lot of the donors carried those. Relationships on. They want me to become the development director. Okay, i’m going to get to the details of how that all played out. That’s that’s, critical part. So it was for you, it’s been four years now since you were executive director. Is that right? Correct. Okay. And there is a new executive director. Hired and same person have been in the position for years. Yeah, we feel like we we did a really thorough an extensive search. Get a job and he’s still on the job saying individual okay. Okay, so, he’s uh, he’s executive director, um correct, mark. Mark. And you won’t get a shot at mark. Yeah. Mark rikers, mark rikers. And you’re the president. Correct. Okay. Let’s, uh, let’s start with the board’s role in this. What i think is really interesting eyes that it was the board recommendation that you stay it wasn’t you as founder dictating. I want to stay with this organization. Thie impetus for having you remain came from the board. And also the impetus toe hyre an executive director came from the board, so it was to phase. It was like we need two. And as my board affectionately refers to jim, if you get hit by a bus, this organization could potentially go down in flames. So the impetus came from some very skilled and wise board members that had experience in the nonprofit world. Had experiences changed management leaders. We’re just very savvy and saying let’s, make our organization more sustainable and increase our bench bench strength. There had to be a lot of trust, a cross, you and the board. I mean, you had to believe that the board actually wanted you two remain and in the capacity that you ultimately became president and which is chief fundraiser for you have put a lot of faith in you’re in your board members telling you that believing what they were telling you. Yeah, and this is a really an emotional space for founder’s teo walk into because you could certainly believed that you were in a situation where you were being replaced, you know, and, um, that certainly took ah, was it took a while for me? Because that was my first reaction. I don’t think it was an unusual one. Um, this changing roles and organizations is really tough work, i think it’s exceptionally tough if you’re the founder, if you were the very first person working on your own, you know, from monstrous hours and generating the organization. But pardon parcel of that is that i always had the belief that eventually, you know, in organizations everyone leaves eventually, and i always had in the back of my mind that the most important thing was that this organization lived on beyond me. And this was certainly a major stepping stone to that. What about the the composition of the board you mentioned? You had some change management people on your board? I’m talking about the importance of having the right skill set on your board to help this transition. Yeah, i mean, it’s it’s, kind of like who’s. Do you have the right people on the bus? You know, and early on in our evolution, you know, we had a lot of people that knew a lot about paul, and that was great, but they were all foreigners, you know? And they had great skill, great passion and that but the evolution has been to bring in buy-in people with sound non-profit experience people who were changed management leaders that basically had their own consulting firms that actually helped corporal eaters and non-profit lee, just walk through these really challenging transitions in the evolution of the nor is a t had that expertise. Oh, yeah, we have that three people that change management expertise. Yeah, that was that was really hughes. And then more than anything, maybe was that i had specifically two individuals that i trust implicitly, that they actually have my back and that that boardmember board members that this was, you know, they had long non-profit experience, but that this was the way the organization could go and that i was not being, you know, put out to pasture and that that that this would be a very fascinating time for me to be able to find out what i really wanted to do instead of having to do everything you also had to trust that the board has the best interests of z in mind that and that their vision is at least, you know, parallel to yours. I mean, it may not be identical, but they yeah, they’ve got z in their in their hearts and and that that really, you know, one of the two individuals i trusted implicitly had been there at the first board meeting in my kitchen table, you know? And now we’re actually we have our board meetings at his board table on the fourteenth floor in denver office, you know? So i mean, that’s been a long evolution, but that had been fourteen years of that relationship, so yeah, i really knew that they had my had my back, a lot of trust ways, but not without a lot of emotion. And a lot of baggage, i’m sure is a tough, you know, you know, talk about the emotional, you know, you just just feel, is this the where am i actually going? What was actually going to happen to the organization, you know, what’s gonna happen to me because i really impassioned about this work and want to stay in this space, you know? So yeah, a lot, a lot of challenges and a lot of ups and downs, and i would say that that period tow walk through that and feel confident it took a couple months, it made it really took a couple months, and we laid out a very deliberate plan on the evolution of this after about a month into it. So i was starting to get on board a month of emotion. Yeah, the emotion continued, but then it started become irrational process. Yeah, because it started to develop and expand into what could be and i didn’t see that initially. Oi! All i saw was what what what i thought was being replaced yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Initially that’s it. Yeah, yeah. All right. But you obviously overcame that. Yeah. Oh, and to add to that in this process. And, you know, one thing that was really fascinating is that our entire board bought into the concept that as we moved into a new executive director, that the executive committee and myself would be the five people that would decide, and it would be unanimous on who we decide if we didn’t find them knives like your daddy way did not find that person, we would scrap it for six months and then come back okay, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive tony martignetti dot com that’s t i g n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way we’re going to get to the search. I spent more time on the board. You mentioned you had a lot of longevity on the board, not not just the one the one guy who started your kitchen table and now you’re on his floor. But you you yeah, you had other board members with long longevity, they understand the organization, they they have the best interests of z in their hearts to jury. I mean in our by-laws boardmember sze sit for three years, they have to be voted back on for another three years. They could walk away from the organization or immediately go to an advisory board that gets all the information doesn’t vote after a year, they could be voted back on the board, but wave have everything we’ve had people that stayed a long time. We’ve had people that cycled and cycled out. I think that’s a really healthy for the cycle more than anything. New ideas, new energy, new vision. You know, new new things. Yeah. Onda connection disease work. Yeah. And and that that solid underpinning has always been that people have been there to anchor it. Not just myself. Uh, let’s talk about the the search that that that search process you said it was the executive committee of the board, just four people. And you? And did it have to be? You had to be unanimous. Vote on who the successor would be. Okay. He obviously had a lot of there. Had to be a lot of trust in that process. Yeah, from the rest of the board members. So well. And you too, you know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All five of you have to. Well, actually, the whole board had trust the process. Yeah, they had delegated the vote to the executive committee and you, but the whole board had trust this process. Yeah, they really did. And so there were some mechanisms that engaged staff engaged other board members, whether it was an opportunity for the three final candidates to be in our office and ridgeway and people to come there and meet them and to sit in on a conference call with all the board members. Anyone that wanted to patch in, we actually had the three final candidates work with our financial officer for an hour. And as questions around that they were in a closed room also. With our the paul country director who was in country at that time. So they they all spent time with them. So it was really a deal where everyone had input. But there were five the executive committee and myself that were decided. Maybe a little detail. But i’m interested. What was the mechanism for staff to give feedback to the five people who are going to do the vote? It was basically threw the board chair. So they say the staff whether it was the financial officer in the whole country. Director, they gave that input directly back to the board chair on the board chair. Disseminated that too. The selection committee. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Was there a outside search consultant? No, we all did. With is completely just posted it publicly. Well, we posted it in all sorts of spaces, you know, on you threw the peace corps on on, were located in a remote area in western colorado. So speak on the western slope. So we had lots of people in the denver area. Certainly. Um what we ended up through our network’s way ended up with sixty for paper applications now on dh. So that was what we started to wed our way through and pretty short, or there were a third that it was really crystal clear. Yeah, yeah, way too much of a stretch. And people asking too remote work remotely in new york for this job. So glamarys and that was deal that we want people in the office, you know, you know, face to face on dh, so that i was a real process. And and once we cold that list, then all of the board members were assigned. The executive committee searching me were assigned a certain amount of people to deal with, to make phone calls, too. There was a list of questions to be asked, and then that information was brought back to the search committee, and we started to just with labbate, whittle it down. Job job descriptions. You’ve identified that as being critical, setting boundaries. About what? What you’re what you’re gonna be doing as president and not doing with the exec director is going to be doing let’s, let’s flush that out job description. Yeah, that was that was really critical, you know, so to speak. What? You know, what was mark’s role? What was my role in what was our rule? You know, and how are we gonna work? Basically in the same office. And how is that going to make this kind of lateral move to be in charge of of all development, really focusing and digging into that, which is something i certainly had done, but i was doing a lot of different things, too. So that was just really critical and also having our executive committee really get into the weeds on that. And then, you know, it’s all about really owning that once it won once things transition about assuring mark who became the executive director, but during the process, maybe at the point where he was offered the job or at some point he had to be reassured that this was not going to be a founder. Syndrome situation that he was stepping into. Yeah. What was that like? How did you? Well, we did that with all of our three final buy-in indefinite detail. And that was something that we put forth. This is how this out was this how it’s changing. Okay. And, um, you know, i mean, this is probably a good time and, uh, it’s about somebody’s ego and, you know, what’s the what’s, the main driver, is it about you is about control, is it about not allowing the organization to grow past you and evolved past you? Or you’re going to keep a stranglehold on it on dh make things miserable for not only marked, but everybody else in the organization, so i want to double it more detail on how those three candidates got god assured that this was not going to be a disaster situation they’d be walking into mean, it had to be more than just the written job descriptions. Yeah. You know, i think one of the things that was really interesting is we weren’t, you know, quite often in this the executive director search or changes organization. What happens is it’s because the, you know, the staff’s upset programs are not being delivered properly, and financially, you’re you’re in dire straits. I mean, it was a kind of that’s, a standard, why you’re changing. We actually came from a really strong position, and we felt it was inappropriate time to make the shift financially. We were in good shape, staff was quite happy with what they were doing, and programs were certainly evolving at that time. So, you know, nothing was perfect, but we certainly were not in the crisis mode that’s quite often, what happened, so we were on the front end of this, but we were again realizing the vulnerability of of me is the founder. And they also had to be assured that you personally wood abide by the job description, yeah, on everything that’s being said. I mean, you know, this is all in writing, and it all sounds good, but, you know, i was the new executive director could walk in and, you know, this guy jim is just blowing everything out of the water that we talked about, and now i’m in a bad spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of really latto had to trust you. Yeah, and it’s a pretty standard situation. Yeah, you know, it’s pretty standard, um, that it be negative. Yeah. Is that the name? And quite often i do hear that people cycle through, though that first executive director didn’t work out. Now we’re into our second one, you know, we were fortunate, and maybe i don’t know why, but i guess mark and the two other candidates believe me, you know, i mean, i really think it comes down to you know that and reassurance from the executive committee. No or trust. Yeah. Latto trust there’s a lot of stress. Yeah. We’re taking a big step here. Like i said, the paper documents are fine. But in the end, they could be end up being meaningless. It comes down to a human connection and right and trust. Yeah. Yeah, ego. You mentioned it before, so let’s explore that mostly your ego that you had keep in check for the for the good of z. Yeah, i think so. I mean, i’m no no expert, trust me, but i guess at the core of this is i’ve always held a belief of doing your best to hyre smart people than yourself on that doesn’t intimidate me. It makes us a stronger organization. So that’s a core belief of my mind. Um, i why would i not try to bring the best and the brightest board members to the board, the best and brightest staff to the board? Um, that’s, just a core belief of mind that that’s what’s going to make a sustainable organization, you know, that’s where the oil starts for me, all right, you know, and, um you know, again, that core belief that my biggest responsibilities this organization lives on beyond me. Yeah. It’s bigger than you. It is much bigger than me. And then you, you know, from one person operation tow for people in colorado in twenty five in the fall. And, you know, fourteen girls is where we started serving over thirty thousand people now it’s way beyond me. I play an inter call roll i have in trickle power because i am the founder, but i’m on ly a piece of the puzzle and that’s that’s a healthy place for nor ization obviously there was a transition period where you had a share, a lot of corporate knowledge with mark as the new executive director. Absolutely. You know, one of the things that was interesting way we’re in an office situation where we had two basic office rooms and initially mark and i were going to work in the same room and i just was, like, that’s not gonna work. We took the office next door. We’re connected by a door, but we can be close and have our own private space that i didn’t want him to feel that i was. Looking over his shoulder, yeah, ever, you know. But there was institutional knowledge, you know, of our organization and what we done, and our relationships and our funding and our partners, and how we did things and where we worked and all that stuff that had to be transferred over. And that takes time. That’s, just a constant process of answering those questions. Mark was incredibly quick study, but, i mean i can’t imagine i’m thinking back out for years now, but, you know, he was really getting it after four months, six months a year, you know, it takes time and it’s, you know, and transferring those relationships, introducing him to those relationships is key and again, taking that letter will move away from that, you know, so that’s, what an and in a way, we also identified that it was an opportunity for me to become maur engaged in the board. You and i now sit on the board. I had never sat on the board first. No, there was not next-gen has founder no, no one. I was fonder, i said as the executive director, but i did not sit on the board and you don’t have a vote now. I didn’t have a vote that i don’t have a way or not right now you’re on the board, but you don’t have a vote, correct. So i’m basically straddled the board on the kind of clutch between the staff from the boy. Why that decision to not have a vote i already have enough power is what the board felt and i think that that’s the accurate. That definitely was another risk situation for me where i was like, wow, i’m losing control. Yeah, but founders have immense historical knowledge, respond relationships, they have immense power with organizations. And although that did feel uncomfortable, it was the right decision. Yeah, and quite a lot. Itjust wass, you know, a lot of this feels like it has to be the right people. I mean, here you’re you’re you’re saying, you know, you struggled with not getting a vote being on the board, but not having a vote, but in order for this to work and for the board to be comfortable, you had teo swallow that you had to accept that and, you know, another person might not have been able to yeah, i think a lot of this, yeah, trust and and the personalities people have to be right now, it’s, not the right people. Then you’re not gonna have the trust and and we’re going toe end up with what i’ve had guests on the show say that which is when the founder leaves the leadership role here. She has got a several ties. Yeah. That’s really the default right? But it sounds like if you arrive the right personalities. You don’t have to, you know, except the default. Well, i think there’s a couple things that play into that one is most times when people are shifting executive directors, it is a crisis situation, and maybe the management wasn’t very strong for so that’s that’s a pretty standard situation. I mean, i for us, we’re coming from ah, solid footing and the thing that was the constant phrase that we we used in our search was we need to find somebody with correct emotional intelligence to come in and not gutsy, but to build on paan what we’ve already created. And so that was it was really the baseline kind of tag line that way worked off the position as president created opportunities for you that you didn’t have as in the leadership role is founder yeah, let’s, talk a little about that because i think it was important for you to recognize that there was opportunity for you and the board was making that clear in the new president role. Yeah, and there i think the opportunity around it was too deep in my relationship with board members. And as i say, be that clutch between what’s happening in our work on the paul what’s happening with staff and that but a zai moved into the development roll exclusively. Really? What happened is at a time. I mean, i had time to follow some more creative, creative things i mentioned there was a knopper to nitti where we were invited from a little town that’s less than a thousand people in ridgeway, colorado, to create enter an event in italy and in france, where there’s a charity cycling about where it’s it’s basically a fancy count for cyclists, that i mean, they have massages and right insane amounts. That was three days of riding with over twenty five thousand feet of climbing racing. And so basically we were able to bring in individuals who had financial capacity to commit to raising a significant amount of money for the foundation. Through this this leverage point through their friends. And you would not have been able to pursue this no way, and found a rolling no on and much band with way too much band with. And then what happened out there, that is, we actually then deepened our relationships in london, in the uk, and we were a register as a charity in the uk. So now there’s the zi foundation uk and we have a board of trustees over there and they basically carried the work of the zi foundation in the uk raise funds for in the paul that money flows through the u s and then in the fall so that basically become a whole new revenue stream that we never had, nor would they have had anywhere near the bandwidth to take something like that on so it’s all those opportunities you know, and looking around the corner what’s next and being very creative about it and that’s been very, very rewarding for me. Simple question in in rap why the title president instead of director of development or institutional advancement? I think the board really wanted to honor my legacy with the organization, you know? And instead of just director of della development, they just wanted to honor my title. Is cofounder present your morning thank you for sharing really some personal stuff, talking about trust and ego and being the right personality. So i want to thank you very much for for sharing. Yeah, thanks. I’m happy to share. With anybody it’s it’s, i think one of the things that happens is in these non-profits u u you changed from being stood sometimes teacher, and i’ve been able to share this with a lot of people it’s tough work at that level and i’m happy to share with anyone. So thank you for having me on pleasure, you’ll find him at zee foundation dot org’s, it’s dc i foundation dot org’s tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage at the opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen on the beach i know you hear the waves breaking in its top of mexico. Thanks so much for being with us. Great convo with jim noah hoexter shared some excellent, really and personal stuff live listener love. We got new bern, north carolina, san diego, california, washington d c that’s alive listener loved going there how about st louis, missouri and durango, colorado live listener love to all of you so let’s go abroad. So south korea always so grateful soul always checking in on your haserot asahi, japan! Konnichiwa and buenos aires, argentina is with us love that you’ve been. You’ve been with us a couple times buy-in mazarene we know star days, of course. We never go beyond live listen love without podcast pleasantries for the over ten thousand listening in the time shift, whatever you’re doing, what’s the latest i heard was painting a house listening to tony martignetti non-profit media while painting the outside this i was very explicit. I want no was the inside the outside she’s painting the outside of her house to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Whatever you’re doing as you’re listening to the podcast pleasantries to the podcast listeners and, of course, affiliate affections began our am and fm stations throughout the country next week. I’m pretty sure it’s going to be next week. We’re going tio, we i i’m going to be welcoming a new affiliate. I’ll give you a hint. Mission await, not mission. Impossible agent ninety nine, agent ninety nine is the hint and that’s as far as much as i am permitted to say at this time. Tony, take two and chilling laws and regulations with jean takagi coming up first. Pursuant, they help you raise more money. They have online tools like prospector, which helps you. You find the donors in your database who are most likely to upgrade to higher levels of giving and velocity, which helps you manage your fund-raising time against goal, lots of analytics associated with velocity to manage fund-raising online tools for small and midsize shops that’s what they’re about that’s. Why they’re perfect sponsor for non-profit radio take the tools that you need and leave the rest behind pursuant dot com i have a video introducing other videos on technology, their interviews from ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference, which is hosted by the non-profit technology network and ten and in ten ceo. You all know this amy sample ward who’s, our social media contributor on each month she was with me in mexico at opportunity collaboration, where i just got jim, no ac interviewed and she and i shot a video by the pool. Is this just becoming too complex? I don’t know. Amy and i were in mexico an opportunity collaboration, and we did a video all the rest was just kind of background and the video is introducing a bunch of other videos about technology, wearable and mobile tech is one of them your disaster recovery plan and a couple of others. The video is at tony martignetti dot com that’s tony’s take two for friday. Thirtieth of october forty first show of twenty fifteen. Jean takagi is with me. You know him? He’s, the managing editor, managing attorney of neo, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. And he edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com on twitter he’s at g tak and i am very glad. He’s back live non-profit radio welcome back, jean. Thanks, tony. Great to hear about your your time at opportunity. Collaboration. Yes, i know you were there. You went a few years ago. Is that right? Yeah. It’s been some years. I hope to go again one day. Okay. Yeah, we had a terrific time. And ah, amy was there as well. Very smart, very smart conference on poverty alleviation throughout the world. Well, lots of bright, bright people are incredible, and we have more interviews coming up. I have a couple that i a couple more that i recorded on the beach, and then i’ve got a whole bunch of other ones book. So lots of smart opportunity, collaboration, people coming up and, uh, and you’re one of them. Your opportunity, collaboration alum with me every month. Um, we got some troubles. Well, some concerns troubles, maybe troubles for non-profits in some chilling laws and regs because some non-profits air not operating the way they’re supposed to and some government officials would like tio, have a little greater oversight. Yeah, i mean, it’s, you know, that’s kind of how, how law sometimes work and it’s scary how it works, there’s some sort of scandal that gets onto the front page of the newspaper on some legislator decides, well, we’ve gotta have a law, and sometimes, you know, they’re thinking teo, be very reactively in terms of fixing a problem, but they do not see what with the broader effect on, you know, the ninety nine percent of the non-profits that are not doing anything wrong, stealing or committing fraud and what impact that might have on them. So it’s all a little distressing, and sometimes, you know, from a cynics perspective, it seems to be a little self serving for the for the legislator who might be up for an election, teo sort of rally the public outrage over situation to get some of these laws passed if they’re if they’re ballot, measure propositions or if they’re just something that the legislators up for. Reelection on. So yeah, without their yeah bashing non-profits i don’t know. I don’t know if it’s it’s not as bad as media bashing, which eyes rampant and nobody seems to object to. But but it’s getting a little let’s get a little worrisome. I mean, you know, it’s, always the it’s. Always the bad guys, the bad actors that get the headlines. And then we get the knee jerk reaction from the politicians who, like you suggested i have their own agenda as well. Um, it’s getting a little chilling? Yeah. Yeah. Scary times first, for sure. And especially with media and the internet just ramping up all the information that’s out there and trying teo attract attention scandals to seem to be the juiciest stuff out there. Yeah, that’s zoho get the headlines, gets the headlines and and causes the reactions that could be adverse. All right, so let’s, let’s, let’s. Start here in in new york, i have seen some local headlines. You want to talk about it? To the queen’s library ceo in the county of queens in new york has nothing. Nothing. Totally above aboveboard about spending and that’s causing problems. Yeah, and that it’s their former ceo now he was terminated at the end of last year, and that was after there there are many boardmember is tryingto protect that that person as well, and i’m not sure that they were doing their their full due diligence on the matter when they were trying to protect him, but ultimately he discovered that, yeah, he was spending fairly lavishly on very, very questionable, if not unlawful expenses. Well paying for fruit executive staff to like a tender maroon five concert and then spending several thousand on batter spending several hundred dollars on wine bottles. Tio entertain. Well, now, wine i could see i like wine, but maroon five, i don’t know. Maroon five. Is that worth a couple thousand dollars? Good, i don’t know. I don’t know them if it was. If it was bruce springsteen, you know it might be justified. No, of course, it’s not just i’ve got five love that. Okay? Okay. All right. But, yeah. It’s it’s lavish to take your executive staff is an employee morale event and spend that much money. And there were there were, you know, over three hundred thousand dollars. That issue with lavish expenditures, probably. Never reported his income by the employees so that that was enough latto haven’t fired, but the stories have been breaking since the late bladder half of two thousand fourteen in all of the local new york papers on and picked up by the new york times as well. Um, and you know, this summer a city council member from queens decided that, you know, there should be something done about this, and i i think she comes from a good place and said that there should be some sort of oversight bill that requires executive level officers of organizations that are funded by the city that receive at least fifty percent of their funding from the city to file the conflict of interest disclosure forms that age city agency employees have to file and file them manually. And you know, that type of disclosure requires some normal stuff like name in home address and principal occupation, but it also asks for disclosing any business interests that the employees or their spouse receives that represents more than ten percent of their growth income now requiring that of government employees. I understand that what? Why, that may be necessary, but non-profits our private organizations come, and if you ask that from every in-kind executive type officer of a non-profit is getting compensated, and sometimes they’re just making, like thirty thousand thirty five thousand dollars a year and saying that you’ve got to disclose all of these things, including what your spouse’s making and where they’re making their income that’s going to really chilled the desire toe to serve, um, for those organizations and it’s going to cost a lot of money to for boards of those organizations to try to enforce that type of annual disclosure on what happens when when, you know, they miss a disclosure. And this is why the mayor decided that that this was something that he wanted to support, but, um, the city council member is sort of taking it back. They had a hearing, and they’re going to take it back, and then they’re going to re craft it. But there’s already state and federal disclosures required so this is going to be pretty burdensome and duplicative and sometimes not consistent with what’s already required that they do with the city in the state, i’m sorry the state and the state, the fed, right? Because iris requires conflict of interest disclosures. Is that what you’re talking about? Yeah, yeah. Ah, okay, yeah, so your concern is the the chilling effect that that this is gonna have that people going to be reluctant to take on. I think it was ceo well was certainly ceo executive director, but it was also including, i think, cfo’s. Um ah, they probably any of those sweets, right? Okay, um, you know what? What do you think? And we have other examples coming up. Unfortunately, what can? What can a non-profit do? I mean, lobby the local lobby, the local city council person, who’s, who’s coming up with these reactionary ideas? Yeah. Or just generally educate their stakeholders about what’s going on and why this might be bad for these organizations. So they’re latto small organizations out there, and then this is really going to hit them or could hit them pretty hard that they let people know that this is something that can affect their livelihood, then, yeah, certainly they can either engage in some lobbying on the bill, and public charities are allowed to engage in lobbying. A lot long does it’s not substantial, and they’re pretty generous limits. And we talked about that before, huh? But yeah, this is kind of khun khun b self defense loving too, which might be subject to the exception to the limit. So this can affect their their health and livelihood inability. Teo, do their mission. So go out there, educate people about it. And yes, send it. Send a letter to your legislators and say this is not a good idea. And yeah, as you said, jim, we have talked about the limits around lobbying and advocacy work. So if people want to go to tony martignetti dot com and just search either jean’s name or why do jean’s name and then also lobbying, you will find the show where we talked about this, that entire topic, what the limits are around lobbying and an advil advocacy. Um, we have just about a minute before a break. Gene, you want to introduce us to what’s going on in aa california there’s a proposal about suspending activities? Yes, it’s now, not just a proposal. It actually just got past a few days ago. Our problem will get it a few days ago. It d’oh the new law on january first. And i’ll just sort of revealed before the break boardmember personal liability on the ability to tell an organization to transfer all of its assets to another organization for a little technical. Oh, my if that’s not a cliffhanger of boardmember personal liability. Ham, california crazy out there, that ninth circuit. But i know this is not federal. Okay? Let’s, go out for the break. Gene and i are going to continue provocative conversation. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. More live listener love food jiao china has checked in ni hao all right, jean california what’s going on, but boardmember of personal liability, transfer of assets and you you got you past this thing. Yeah, well, the attorney general it’s a regulation so it’s not a statutory law meaning that the legislative body didn’t elected officials didn’t come up with this law. It’s executive branch officials that passed it solicited some comments from the public and let me just give you some framework on it. First, i i understand why the attorney general’s office wanted to come up with the law that said, okay, we need thio make sure that charities are actually registered with us and are complying with the registration requirements because we need to know who’s out there. And this is probably true of every state where their tens of thousands of charities that have sort of let their registration slip, possibly because they think if they filed with the irs, that they didn’t know that they have additional state filings file in california, we have three filings with different agencies that you have to keep up with, and sometimes organizations particularly smaller ones that might not have professionals that are on top of their legal compliance and filing obligations. Sometimes they forget teo and let this one slip, and this one isn’t the one that’s done by the accountant’s. Usually either the count didn’t sort of take care of the tax for me, the i r s forms of the state tax agency forms, but this one is a charity registration for in which you’re well aware, i am it’s part of what i do, yes, yeah, exactly, but now the penalty they’re saying it’s like, we’re really wantto, you know, wrapping up our enforcement of this, and so we’re going to say if you operate and you’ve been suspended and you could be suspended for missing filing more, filing an incomplete filing, right and again in california, we have three separate filings with the secretary of state, the franchise tax board and the attorney general nypmifa miss one of the secretary of state or franchise tax court filings that can cause you to become automatically suspended with the a g’s office as well on so just slipping on those things, which some of them are very easy to file if you know about them. I can get you suspended and then if you operate while you’re suspended and this is where they’re they’re saying, well, if if you operate while suspended the age, he has the right tempos, boardmember personal liabilities, personal liability on boardmember that must be paid by the board members from their own money. This wouldn’t be covered by insurance thiss wouldn’t be covered by the organization itself. It couldn’t indemnify that boardmember for this it’s got to come out of the board members own personal pocket for operating while suspended, and there are, you know, there may be as many as one hundred thousand organizations in california. They’re not compliant with their filing regulations and charity registration regulations. You know, i think there’s some foreign organizations that are operating here that haven’t registered properly, yeah, that’s a that’s, a lot of organizations that to be subject to this draconian regulations, gina that’s important to point out that we’re not only talking about organises non-profits that are domestic in california, what incorporated non-profit in california, based in california, we’re talking about non-profits from throughout the country who are soliciting in california, that makes you subject to those three filings franchise tax board, secretary of state and a g that you’re talking about? Yep. And i think it’s more than the estimate of i i i saw was that your blogged or someone else above estimating one hundred eighty thousand? Like, i think it was fifty thousand domestic and then one hundred thirty thousand. Beyond that, i think it’s more than that. I mean, especially if you start counting online solicitations, email the california’s, the most populous state in the country. I think i think it’s more than one hundred eighty thousand that i saw that very well could be true. I was a little bit modest with numbers just because we don’t know some of those who just sort of been abandoned and dropped out. Okay, but being yeah, there are a lot of organizations that could be subject to this, and you wonder if you, you know, when you promulgate regulations like this and now non-profits air looking for board members and they’re trying to get the the most qualified in the best and support of board members that they confined, how many people are going to go? Well, you know, i’m a little bit worried about all of these. Things and ah, again, i don’t want to run the risk because boardmember is a typically volunteers and they don’t like stay on top of sort of the technical aspects of did we actually file with all three state agencies? They typically just reviewed the irs form nine, ninety submissions, if that so, yes, this is very distressing and for operating all suspended, not only can the g hold boardmember personally liable, but they can tell the organization you must transfer out all of your assets to another organization. Holy good, even big foundation you they could say literally, you must transfer out one hundred million dollars of your assets and give it to another organization because you’ve been operating while you were suspended. Yeah, so let’s talk about let’s talk about operating while suspended. So you failed to make of some arcane filing, although i it’s part of what i do with the franchise tax board now. Okay, so you failed that now you’re suspended, suspended means you’re not feeding people anymore. You’re not sheltering domestic violence victimssurvivors anymore. You’re not protecting the waterways of california anymore because you’re supposed to be suspended. You stop work and all your employees go home without pay. Is that what we’re talking about? Suspended. Yeah, basically can’t engage in any kind of operations while suspended. And if you try to keep helping the rivers and the oceans, and the and the survivors and the victims and the homeless and hungry, then you’re liable for have for the for the penalty of having a transfer all your assets, right? That sounds crazy, right off the ventilator. It’s, it’s, it’s really crazy and non-profit i’m going to do that and what the g has said to us and i launched a campaign here tryingto kapin get the a g to reconsider this and i had independent sector the national council non-profits cal non-profits united way’s, california lines for justice, the ceo, board source the non-profit insurance alliance group all fine on this so that they recognize that there was some national attention, that there was some big concerns about this, but unfortunately did not go through and the ages view is basically trust us. Even though we’ve got these broad, broad powers were not going to abuse them and we’re going to only attack use them against the very, very bad actors, and i just think that’s bad, yeah, may start out that way, but six attorneys general from now, who knows? All right, that’s a really that’s a really impactful one for anybody. Any organization operating in california soliciting in california? I don’t want to say operating soliciting donations in california. You need to make sure you are compliant. Holy cow! Okay, let’s, move. We just have, like a minute and a half left. Jean let’s. Move the federal tax court disallowed a couple of big charitable deductions, like over several million dollars in one, because donors or not, providing proper substantiation of their deductions? Yeah, i mean, so these weren’t that long ago, and the irs always wins on these cases, by the way, when donors tried to challenge them, take always win. So charities make sure you write proper forms in the first one, which was durden versus commissioner there’s just a deduction of twenty five thousand dollars for cash contributions they they were making to their church, and the church gave them a receipt. But the receipt missed the statement that you must have for donations of two hundred fifty dollars or more. A statement that says no goods or services were provided by the organization in return for their contribution. If you miss that statement, you can’t make up for it after the person the donor has filed their tax returns. It too late. Too late. Because that’s basically screwed it’s not contemporaneous anymore. Jean right. I’m sorry. I want to leave listeners with irs publication five twenty six it’s for people who make charitable donations it’s for your donors. But it has all the guidelines in it that that your donor’s need and that you need to be providing them when it’s your when it is your responsibility? Iris publication five twenty six gene, i’m sorry we have to leave it there. Great point, though thank you very much, jean takagi. You’ll find him at non-profit law blogged dot com and on twitter he’s at g tack next week. Great show coming up very, very good show coming up, but i don’t know what it’s going to be. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com where in the world else would you go pursuant? Lots of tools for small and midsize shops. You’ll raise halloween bags more money. I wish i could elaborate on this, but we’re running a little at a time just trust me big, big halloween bags like the ikey of those blue bags, not the tiny little things you get in the drug store when you buy a four pack of batteries filled with money. 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Two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.