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Nonprofit Radio for May 2, 2022: The Other Tony Martignetti

 

Tony Martignetti: The Other Tony Martignetti

Am I encroaching on him or is he encroaching on me? I think we can find peaceful coexistence. The other Tony Martignetti is the individual and team coach at Inspired Purpose Coaching and author of the book, “Climbing the Right Mountain.”

 

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[00:02:20.14] spk_0:
mm hmm Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. We’re welcoming a new second sponsor fourth dimension technologies. Thank you, thank you very much for joining us for d. So glad to have you and I’m glad you’re with, I’d be thrown into Blefary rhinitis if you swelled me up with the idea that you missed this week’s show. The other tony-martignetti am I encroaching on him or is he encroaching on me? I think we can find peaceful coexistence the other tony-martignetti is the individual and team coach at inspired purpose coaching and author of the book climbing the right mountain. We’re gonna have some fun today on tony state too, managing those who fear fundraising, we’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c O. And by welcoming fourth dimension technologies I. T. Infra in a box. The affordable tech solution for nonprofits. tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Just like 3D but they go deeper. What a pleasure. What great fun what you know, it’s just amazing to welcome tony-martignetti this tony-martignetti is the trusted advisor coach experience, creator, author, podcast, host and speaker, he’s chief inspiration officer of inspired purpose coaching and author of the book climbing the right mountain Navigating the journey to an inspired life. His company is at inspired purpose coach.com and he’s at Tony-Martignetti one. tony-martignetti welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio

[00:02:31.14] spk_1:
I am so thrilled to be here tony It’s a, it’s truly amazing that we’ve finally made this happen. Um and this conversation is long overdue

[00:03:01.54] spk_0:
indeed, I think I dropped the ball for a while, I had your book and then I didn’t get back to you and tell you that I got the book and I feel bad about that, but we’re here, you’re here. Um I, you know, I, I felt bad when I was introducing you, you you have to be at tony-martignetti one, I feel bad about that. I’m sorry, I’m sorry I grabbed tony-martignetti Where were you? Where were you? Six or eight? Yeah, I don’t know when I started on twitter, where you been? Where were you? Yeah,

[00:03:02.51] spk_1:
just a little bit slow to the uptake and you had to get there first. It’s all good

[00:03:07.14] spk_0:
if it wasn’t for

[00:03:08.16] spk_1:
you. You know, if you weren’t such a good guy, I wouldn’t, I would be more upset, but you know, we can coexist and I’m thrilled to uh, to share the name with you.

[00:04:13.14] spk_0:
We certainly can. Oh you’re sharing your name with me. Oh I see, I see how it is. Okay, okay, now you first came uh into my awareness my, on my radar because folks were confusing us like they would post on linkedin Thanks to at tony-martignetti for having me on, on the podcast. And the first time I ignored it and then it kept happening. So you have a lot of guests who are grateful and then I realized okay there, then I then somebody said the uh you know the fireside, I’m sorry, no, the virtual fireside uh uh podcast and that’s all right. There’s a, there’s another guy out there who, who has stolen my name. So I had to reach out of course, of course. So you’re, you’re in the, you’re in the boston area, you’re in boston proper or they’re just

[00:04:19.42] spk_1:
in the suburbs, so just south of the city. But I spent most of my time in boston and Cambridge area working in a number different companies there

[00:04:29.54] spk_0:
and neither one of us is related to the martignetti liquor empire in the boston area or the Anthony martignetti of Prince Spaghetti fame,

[00:04:38.74] spk_1:
yep, no royalties coming my way.

[00:04:57.64] spk_0:
No, no, I’m chronically unconnected. Um the now that the Prince Spaghetti is dating probably both of us a bit, you have to be, you probably have to be over 45 or 52. Remember Prince Spaghetti commercials? Of course Wednesday was Prince Spaghetti day and Prince Spaghetti, I don’t think they make it anymore, at least I don’t see it. I don’t see it on the shelves.

[00:05:06.84] spk_1:
Yeah.

[00:05:22.24] spk_0:
tony brought them down, but Tony was the spokesman, he was the mother would be yelling out her boston window, Anthony Anthony martignetti and he would come running down little tony in fourth or fifth or sixth grade become running down the streets of boston, that was, that’s what I’m referring to or we’re referring to it, We’re talking about Prince Spaghetti.

[00:05:30.44] spk_1:
Yeah. In the classic north end of boston.

[00:05:52.24] spk_0:
Yes, that’s right in the north end of boston and then he would run up the steps to his mom’s apartment and she’d be in her house dress. The pasta pot is boiling and I think he came in with a bouquet of flowers or something to make up for being late for supper or something. I don’t, I think so. It’s good to meet you tony-martignetti

[00:05:55.44] spk_1:
here. It’s

[00:06:02.74] spk_0:
a little surreal. It’s interesting. Um so tell us about your, tell us about your coaching before we were gonna talk to someone about your book, but tell us about inspired purpose coaching please.

[00:06:31.14] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, so the first of all the coaching I do is something that it’s really my calling. It’s what I was called to do even though it took me a long time to get here. Um the the work I do is work with accomplished leaders and entrepreneurs um in all different types of industries who are feeling like there’s something missing. Um they’re feeling like they’re stuck and they want to find the connection to their inspired purpose, They want to lead with purpose and they want to find fulfillment in life and in work

[00:06:38.74] spk_0:
and these many industries include nonprofits. Do you have, have you coached or are you coaching focusing nonprofits?

[00:07:03.24] spk_1:
Yeah, nonprofits um you know, across many different tech organizations but from nonprofits for sure. I recently just got back from doing a training with a nonprofit organization in Ohio. Um, and it was really powerful to help them. Were there challenges.

[00:07:29.44] spk_0:
Alright, excellent. So, so the, The book, the book has universal appeal, but certainly, you know, the book is kind of, it’s personal and professional. I see it as more personal. Kind of see like 70, 30. I don’t know if that do you think I am? I am I being unfair to your book? Like I see it largely personal, but then it certainly has professional implications and, and ideas to, I don’t know, am I am I mischaracterizing? You can tell me, you can tell me if I’m messed up,

[00:07:33.27] spk_1:
I’ll be honest with you. I

[00:07:35.82] spk_0:
think, I think you’re absolutely

[00:08:21.34] spk_1:
Right. I think it’s more that 7030 because you know, the reality is you can’t separate the person from the leader in the organization. And I think there’s most of it has to do with how you’re showing up to life, not just how you’re showing up to work and definitely you want to make sure that we, you know, had that element of how are you showing up to work because it’s a big part of what we spend our time doing. We want to make sure that people think about what I want to do for the work that I’m doing, How am I leading my people if I’m leading people, um, there’s a lot of elements I tap into their, um, I think one of the big messages that I try to, to come across in the book is that it’s really about defining success on your own terms. Um and that it’s never too late to change the path you’re on.

[00:08:26.04] spk_0:
Yes. Success in your own terms,

[00:08:28.74] spk_1:
not the

[00:08:34.24] spk_0:
culture’s terms, not society’s terms, not your professions terms. Yeah,

[00:09:14.74] spk_1:
Yeah. And when I think it’s a great message, because when you think about, like, even as we think about non profit versus profit for profit organizations, oftentimes people think like, well I don’t want to work for a nonprofit, you know, that means that I’m not gonna make any money um or I’m not going to have an impact. Well, the reality is that it all depends on how you look at your role and it looks at how you craft your position. You know, you can do well and make enough money to live a good life. Um it doesn’t have to be an either or um you can do well and make a good living. Um it doesn’t have to be one or the other.

[00:09:30.54] spk_0:
Yes. Yes. And you make the point, we’ll, we’ll get a chance to flush it out, but you make the point that happiness doesn’t follow from success. Success flows from happiness.

[00:09:45.54] spk_1:
Yeah, Yeah. So choosing that path of like really wanting, you know, what is it that makes you happy to, you know, really understanding, you know, what’s going to bring life to your life um is important. I

[00:09:45.80] spk_0:
had plenty of time to read the book because I sat on it for a long time before before I remember to tell you that I got it. So I had plenty of time to go through it. Um All right, so you use this very interesting um I think clever metaphor of mountain

[00:10:00.99] spk_1:
climbing

[00:10:02.64] spk_0:
and it’s in the title of the book, explain, explain.

[00:10:11.54] spk_1:
Yeah well um I do enjoy climbing mountains in fact um when uh this summer I’m going to be climbing Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania. So

[00:10:17.68] spk_0:
yes you should be preparing for that right now, shouldn’t you?

[00:10:21.08] spk_1:
I am I am I am doing the preparations uh you know getting out hiking a lot and doing a lot of um just aerobic exercise because it just want to get you know used to the oxygen um at those different levels.

[00:10:35.84] spk_0:
How do you how do you train for the oxygen deprivation at however many tens? I don’t know how how is Kilimanjaro

[00:10:41.64] spk_1:
19,000

[00:10:42.72] spk_0:
19,000 ft? How do you train for that part?

[00:11:10.64] spk_1:
Um so you just have to continue to get out and do more hikes. I mean if I could get in, I’m not going to get up to 19,000 ft anywhere here locally. So I’m just doing a lot of different mountain climbs locally and what I’m trying to do is just get used to getting up to to elevation. Um more and more instead of staying at the consistent elevation all the time. So just you know getting used to it. It’s all it takes. You

[00:11:12.06] spk_0:
have to travel to you have to travel to some mountains to prepare for higher elevations.

[00:11:57.54] spk_1:
So the last mountain I traveled to was I went to Peru during the pandemic actually while I was finishing up my book which I’ll get into in a moment. Um I went to Machu Picchu in um in peru and that was the whole area of Cusco is actually at a pretty high altitude. I can’t remember the exact altitude of where you’re at above sea level there but it’s um you constantly have to be ready to have oxygen on your on hand in case you need it. But it’s just really about slowing down and breathing more intentionally. And um that’s part of the process is just getting used to that breathing slowly. Um And slowing down every step you take is intentional. So

[00:12:03.23] spk_0:
my goodness. When are you going to Tanzania

[00:12:06.38] spk_1:
in august so

[00:12:08.34] spk_0:
yeah

[00:12:09.09] spk_1:
it’s right around the corner.

[00:12:10.44] spk_0:
Good wishes. Good. I’m not gonna say good luck. You don’t really need luck but you know good wishes and your training and everything. I hope you stay healthy.

[00:12:16.81] spk_1:
What

[00:12:18.07] spk_0:
a feat.

[00:12:19.04] spk_1:
Yeah it’s gonna be amazing. I’ll keep you posted as to you know how it all turns out but

[00:12:22.66] spk_0:
okay you have you have a guide of course and you go with the team.

[00:12:27.72] spk_1:
Yeah. Yeah. Don’t

[00:12:29.06] spk_0:
climb alone. You make the point in the book, that’s part of your metaphors. Never you’re never climbing alone.

[00:14:37.84] spk_1:
Yes, that’s exactly it. And I think, you know, so just to come back to this idea of climbing, you know, I’ve always enjoyed climbing and one of the things that’s interesting is that there’s been some climbs that I’ve taken that are not so successful when you just go in without preparation, without having the right people alongside you and without having a map. Um I’ve literally done that when I was a teenager, but then you have these other clients where it’s more successful when you have that preparation, your partner, the right people and you see this this idea of like really knowing what you’re getting yourself into without really having everything all mapped out in terms of like specifics. Um but the preparation is key. So the whole idea about the book is climbing the right mountain is about really being on this journey to, you know, see the mountain as your career and the path you’re on and when you get to the top, are you going to be satisfied with what you’ve created for yourself? And often times, you know, I’ve talked to a lot of different leaders and myself included um gotten to the top of their mountain based on what they thought that they wanted and they realized it wasn’t what they wanted. The view is not what they expected and they’ve had to sacrifice a lot of things to get their, you know, their health, their well being, their time with family, friends. Um, and it’s unfortunate because you know, when you have that, that singular focus of like this is what I need to do to get to the top and then you get there and you feel like let down, um, you want to have a sense of what can I do now? And so, um, the book is really there for us to be able to think a different way. And if you’re still on the path and thinking yourself like, oh gosh, am I on the right path at all? There’s some thoughts around how can you stop, pause and take another look and see what else is possible? Am I really climbing on the right path for me right now? And sometimes it’s not about leaving your, your career. It’s not about, hey, you know, I should be leaving my job and go somewhere else. Sometimes just looking at your job from a different lens, just changing perspective a little bit,

[00:16:25.54] spk_0:
it’s time for a break. Turn to communications, they do content creation and content management. Let’s focus on the management part. Your blog. Is it out of date? Have you got a resource page whether it’s your content or the content of others that you’re sharing? And is that thing that resource pages out of date? You’ve got resources from like 2018, even 20, years old, you’ve probably got more current content. Let’s get it up on the resource page, let’s get it up on the blog. Turn to can help you not only with the content creation, creating all these um communications, all these messages, but with the management also and keep that management current. You don’t want to blog, that’s even six months old, right, where the most recent stuff is six months old. No, you don’t want that turn to can help you turn to communications turn hyphen two dot c o Now, back to the other tony-martignetti Although for you, it was a major and sudden job career change. You know, what, what did that, what did that before? You know, you can welcome to tell the story of, you know, the incident, I’m not gonna I’m not gonna beg, you know, I’m not gonna spoil it. But what, what was that feeling like for you that you objectively, I guess to outsiders had succeeded, but you still have this feeling of, of, of longing and emptiness.

[00:17:40.14] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s exactly you know, I love the way you put it there because that’s exactly how it felt. You know, I had, I had had outward success, people saw me as someone who was really doing well, I was working as a finance and strategy professional in the biotech industry. Um I had done a lot of successful things on the outside, but there was a sense of something missing. There was an emptiness inside and I know I’m not alone in this feeling. There’s a lot of people who feel this way in their navigation through their own path. But I got to this place where I was sitting in a boardroom and feeling like I don’t want to do this anymore. I was looking around the room and seeing a lot of people checked out, you know, looking at their cell phones and just listening to these leaders who are toxic in nature, they were more concerned about their own image and how they were showing up. And as I was looking around, I had this feeling and that I didn’t want to do this anymore. I didn’t want to be here anymore and collect a paycheck and just show up um that there’s got to be a different way for leaders to inspire others and to change the way that they’re showing up in the room. And so I decided to to leave the room um to walk out.

[00:17:43.04] spk_0:
And I said to myself, yeah.

[00:18:44.24] spk_1:
And I just I said at that point that I’m going to leave the room to change the room in some way. I don’t know how I just know that it’s not this and that’s what really was the the the point that really flipped for me and created um the path that I’ve been on of the past 4.5 years. Um and you know, when I talk to people about this, sometimes they’re like, well, is that the path that I should be taking? Like, no, it’s it’s not, it was for me because that’s what I had to go through to get to where I wanted to go. But ultimately, if you can to do small experiments along the way or kind of maybe take small bets and not leave, you know, your day job, if you will, then that’s always better. But if this is what it takes for you to actually make that movement, then do that. This is a good it’s a good path. If if it’s the only thing that’s gonna get you in motion, I

[00:18:55.34] spk_0:
like that idea that you have to leave the room to change the room. I’ve never heard that before? Maybe that’s common. Uh but you do, it changes the room and it changes your, that changes the room you’re gonna be in next.

[00:20:25.24] spk_1:
Yeah. And I think it also was a was a big moment of being so fierce, so much, so much fear, so much uncertainty for me. I didn’t know what I was doing at that point because I knew hardly that there was something coming up for me, but I then had to kick off this process of understanding, well, who am I really to be doing this? Like, like the imposter syndrome that I had to go through to really experience this, like building a business around this, am I gonna do this on my own is just gonna be you know, coaching is what I ended up getting into, but I had to like figure out well how is anyone gonna want to buy coaching for me if I don’t have a track record of being a coach, So there’s a lot of that that comes into place um but slowly but surely I built the confidence one conversation at a time and also by getting to know who I was um by exploring myself as I say oftentimes my tagline inspiration through honest conversation and those conversations are not always with other people, they start with yourself, really understanding who am I, what makes me unique, you know, what is it that I am wired to do? Um and that starts by getting really quiet and listening to yourself answer those

[00:20:26.84] spk_0:
questions and what and

[00:20:28.09] spk_1:
to answer those questions, the important ones,

[00:20:31.94] spk_0:
essentially helping yourself before you can help others. Yeah

[00:20:34.78] spk_1:
exactly.

[00:20:44.54] spk_0:
Uh coaching yourself before you can coach others, Finding yeah, finding yourself before you can help others find you know, their their right path. Um yeah, you talk, you talk something about this is related self leadership,

[00:20:50.84] spk_1:
what’s

[00:20:58.74] spk_0:
this, what’s this idea of self leadership? Oh by the way, wait, I wanted to ask you first, did anybody yell at you when you walked out of the boardroom? They yell martignetti martignetti get back here or don’t ever come back or anything dramatic like that or

[00:21:20.44] spk_1:
no, it’s ironic that it didn’t uh it was more like looks around the room a little bit like what is he doing? Uh it’s not like I made it some more massive thing and after when I um when I did leave, I came back and I basically said to them, I said, look, you know, I made the decision that I’m, I’m done and this is what I’m doing. Um and they said, okay, you know, it is what it is. You know, they just kind of accepted it, what else, what else are they gonna do? All right? Um but the, you know, jokingly I would say the person who was yelling at me most of all was probably my, my brothers and sisters and

[00:21:38.71] spk_0:
thinking

[00:21:40.04] spk_1:
like what are you doing?

[00:21:42.00] spk_0:
I think

[00:22:33.84] spk_1:
that brings up a good point, which is to say um the cost of your new life is your old life. You have to um to kind of shed the old beliefs that you have the old thinkings of who people think you are and you move into this new place and what that means. You have to sometimes, you know, realize that you’re the only one who’s going to truly know who you are becoming. There’s gonna be a lot of people who don’t understand what you’re going through. Um and that’s okay, they’ll eventually come along, they’ll figure it out, but you have to be okay with being in that raw state, the we often call liminal space that is between the known and the unknown. Um and you become the person who’s more expert at who you’re becoming because you’re going through it yourself,

[00:22:34.73] spk_0:
its its vulnerability to

[00:22:36.65] spk_1:
Yeah, yeah,

[00:24:22.64] spk_0:
willing to be vulnerable to family colleagues who you know who you’re departing, you know, whatever. Yeah. You know, you said I have a little bug a boo about it is what it is and I think in this case you’re being modest, but uh because it is what you made it, you know, as I don’t know if it was a conversation with the boss or you know, whatever, but it’s not just, it didn’t just happen, You know like the weather, it is what it is, we can’t control that. But 99% of the time I think people use it is what it is. Either they’re like in your case you’re being modest. I think you you caused that you caused that to happen. You made a conscious choice in the moment and left the room and and followed through on it. So you you you caused the change um and a lot of times I think uh aside from modesty at absolves people of responsibility, you know, it is what it is. Well, no, actually it is what you made it or what we together made it maybe there is a shared responsibility accountability, but I uh I’m I’ve I’ve I’ve said it a million times it is what it is, but just like in the past few months or so. I’ve been drilling down on that because it’s so common and very little is what is what it is. The vast majority of times. It’s what someone has made it, it might be some industry, it might be some political party, there might be some person, it might be some group of persons, it might be you, it might be me, it might be us together. Yeah. You know, it is what it is. Uh absolves accountability. So you’re, you know, you’re a thinker, you’re a thinker. So I want to share my, maybe you’ll think about what I think about. Maybe

[00:25:45.64] spk_1:
not. I love what you said and I think it’s what’s so cool about it is that it’s like, it is what it is, has to be um, you know, proceeded followed by, um by and what now and what now. So if you say that, okay, it is what it is. Well, okay, but there’s gonna be some action that follows it that makes it meaningful, makes it meaningful that you’re going to take some action that’s going to like say, okay, if that’s what the existing paradigm is and you’re willing to shift out of it, that’s what means that you did something about it to actually make a difference. Um, to shift out of what it what it is, what it is, which oftentimes we’re stuck in these environments that have become, you know, self perpetuating if you will. Um, and then what you do is you step out and say, nope, not me, I’m not going to stay in this environment any longer, so I’m gonna do something about it, I’m going to move out of that environment and I’m gonna create something different, but it’s about taking action and that action then has follow on action and before you know what you’re doing something different, even if that action is not perfect, gosh, like that, you know, the first step you take could be the wrong step, but the fact that you’re taking a step is um, it’s a sign that you’re, that you’re ready for something different, you’re ready to make a move into a direction, that is not the one that you’re in right now

[00:25:54.74] spk_0:
and then you are taking responsibility. You know, you’re, you’re, you are sort of flipping that and you’re, you’re saying without saying it, you’re conscious of, you know, it is what I’ve made

[00:26:04.76] spk_1:
it, my

[00:26:13.24] spk_0:
life is what I’ve made in my career, whatever, you know, whatever macro or micro um aspect, you know, you may be focusing on, if you’re within your existence, taking responsibility for it, it is what I have made it

[00:26:21.74] spk_1:
now,

[00:26:46.44] spk_0:
as you’re saying now, I can take an action, take a tiny action, I can take a big action and walk out of the room I can take a small action, start investigating, start talking to other people in other careers. You know? Whatever whatever it is, you’re you’re you’re taking responsibility. So that’s my little that’s my tirade on it is what it is. You know, I want folks to take responsibility or or give responsibility or or or responsibility or blame or credit wherever it’s do whatever it is,

[00:26:52.05] spk_1:
if

[00:26:57.54] spk_0:
it’s yourself, it’s a team, if someone else, you know, very little is it is what it is like I said, the weather.

[00:28:09.24] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, I’m going to take it a step further because, you know, as we often say, the words we use, you know, really, um creates our world and the word that comes to mind for me now, especially when it comes to self leadership, is that it’s taking ownership, um ownership of your path and if you continue to accept it is what it is, then what’s happened is you’re stuck in this, like this path of like, whatever, you know, comes to me, I’m just going to accept it and live within it, live it, live within the existing paradigm. But if I take ownership of my path, take ownership of my life, lead myself. Then what happens is I can own the decisions, good or bad, whatever happens next, I could fail, I could win. Um and either way I can be proud that I took ownership of whatever happens next. And that’s what leadership is about. Self leadership especially is about, is really saying that I choose to take ownership of the path forward as opposed to just accept what is. That’s

[00:28:26.04] spk_0:
one of your, one of your guide posts. You know there you have uh you have eight guide posts in the book and we’re not gonna have time to get to all of them. So you know, folks are just gonna have to buy the book. You got to buy the book. That’s the way that’s the way to get the full content. You know, we can we can we can tease you with with ideas here. But you know, one of your guide posts is connect with the leader within

[00:28:31.44] spk_1:
Yes,

[00:28:37.04] spk_0:
that’s the self leadership that we just talked about. Another one is check your surroundings.

[00:28:40.04] spk_1:
Mm hmm.

[00:28:45.64] spk_0:
Those around you. The influences around you. Talk about that. Check your, Check your surroundings.

[00:30:25.94] spk_1:
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s so important to think about that. Like Oftentimes, you know, you think that um you know, the environment that you’re in is um It is you know that you just show up and the people around you are going to support you or they’re gonna, you know, bring you to where you are. What the surroundings we have. They create this uh container for um Either supporting us or defeating us. And so we need to make sure we’re very careful about is surrounding us with the type of people who are going to help us to thrive. Not just survive. Um you know, i in the book, there’s a there’s a conversation about how, like, you know, in India in Delhi, um there’s this idea that like, you know, there’s a lot of pollution, there’s no doubt about it. There’s a ton of pollution. And the people of Delhi have really come to this place where they’ve just been able to adapt into living in the world of their bodies have adapted to the pollution, but the reason why they’ve done that is because they have no other choice but to adapt because that’s what their environment is. But when you make a conscious choice to say like, well, I don’t want to be in that environment. If I take myself out of the environment, I don’t want to adapt to a toxic environment. I want to adapt to an environment. In fact, maybe even shape the environment so that I’m in a place where I’m surrounded by people who helped me to become something better than who I am. So that’s surrounding is important. If you surround yourself with people who support you, who allow you to be free to speak your mind, then you’re gonna really take yourself to the next level as opposed to holding yourself back.

[00:30:50.04] spk_0:
You spend time with people who bring you up uplift you not, you know, toxic personalities, negative personalities. You know, that that really that really can hurt it impacts, even though you’re, you know, you you you may even recognize it as toxic, but it’s still you know, I don’t know, you know, to me, I would say like it tears you down. It brings you down it, it can hurt you

[00:31:04.04] spk_1:
absolutely. And sometimes you don’t even recognize it. Sometimes we don’t

[00:31:04.78] spk_0:
recognize that we’ve

[00:31:19.44] spk_1:
become so immune to it that like because we’ve built these um these immunities to seeing what it is that we’re living in. It’s like the fish and water, right? We don’t know where in water we’re just in it. Um so it takes someone else to tell you, hey, do you realize what you’re living in right now. Do you realize the environment that you’re in is not supporting who you really want to be and that’s why a coach or mentor somebody who can can look at your situation and help you to see you know how it’s not currently serving you and how it could be different.

[00:31:49.84] spk_0:
I should have asked you to explain the purpose behind the guide posts before I story we started talking about the guard post. You’re stuck with a lackluster host tone, you know, there’s no way there’s no way around it. So you know, I apologize for that.

[00:31:58.77] spk_1:
I mean

[00:32:11.04] spk_0:
you could take over it is tony-martignetti non profit radio you’re you’re you’re you’re you’re not the aptly named host, but you know, you could be you could be you have the potential to be host of All right. So the guide posts, what’s the whole what’s the whole point behind uh the eight guide posts that you spend a lot of time talking about in the book.

[00:33:29.74] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean the guy poster, there are two really kind of set your path to getting to where you want to go to create a journey to, you know, connect with what you want to accomplish in your life, to be on a journey that will connect you to the type of, you know, fulfillment that you’re looking for. Um I mean, you know what I think is most important is to just the pause, the initial, you know, let’s step back and look at what’s possible. And as you get to those different posts they build on each other. You know, as you said, there’s this, you know, connecting with self leadership and you know, seeing that, you know, whether or not the environment is right for you, but also thinking about legacy, what you think is so important. And when you start to think about like what do I want my legacy to be, who I want to be remembered for? Um and that’s important. I think it’s important to think about those things because sometimes we just get our heads so down and we just focus and we just need to step away from it and say what else is important here, what else do I want for my life and what do I want people to know about me um in the end

[00:33:34.14] spk_0:
and this is all to help folks climbed the right mountain.

[00:33:35.86] spk_1:
Exactly

[00:33:36.41] spk_0:
for them for them.

[00:33:37.73] spk_1:
Yes yes for them so key

[00:37:48.83] spk_0:
it’s time for a break. Fourth dimension technologies join me in welcoming four D. Their I. T. Solution is I. T. Infra in a box. It’s budget friendly and holistic. You pick what you need and leave the rest behind. I thi assessment multi factor authentication, other security cost analysis, help desk and more choose what’s right for your I. T. Situation and for your budget. Fourth dimension technologies tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant four D. Just like three D. But they go one dimension deeper. It’s time for Tony’s take two managing those who fear fundraising. We’re probably talking about board members or potentially other volunteers. You could have other volunteer leaders conceivably helping you with your fundraising. Well I’m not talking about professional fundraisers. You know if you hired a professional fundraiser who fears fundraising you made a big mistake. Cut bait. It’s time to let that person go or find another job for them. The professional fundraiser who hates fundraising, fears fundraising. But uh so that’s that we’re putting that aside. It’s probably not a professional. So the volunteers who fear fundraising. My first advice is help them in there fundraising endeavors in their soliciting, help them with training, certainly staff support role playing assuring them that they don’t have to solicit alone that there will always be either a staff member or another volunteer with them. So they’ll never be alone doing it. Help them see that they wouldn’t be in this, you know, all by themselves. But if they’re still resistant to soliciting, okay, then we’re gonna take them off solicitation and find something else fundraising related for them to do. Like thanking folks board. If its board members were talking about what donor would not love to get a handwritten note or a phone call from a board member, purely a thank you. No more. No, nothing more than that. Just to thank you. Why do you love our work? Those are such easy conversations. So thanking could be hosting, hosting an event, small event, perhaps in their home, maybe some other venue that that maybe their office club, whatever, hosting a small event for you, introducing you to folks, bringing their networks to your organization. So there’s three other ways that those who fear fundraising because they think it’s, it’s soliciting can be brought into the, into the fold more comfortably showing them that there are things that are not soliciting, but that are still valuable around fundraising. And then the third, if they’re not willing to do either one or two, then you gotta move past these folks. They cannot be obstacles to those who don’t fear fundraising, who are embracing it, who recognize how important a role it is for them as as key volunteers. So you gotta get past these folks, they, we can’t have them as obstacles to other people. So those are my uh, my ideas around helping those who fear fundraising, helping you manage those folks That is Tony’s take two, we’ve got boo koo but loads more time for the other tony-martignetti with tony-martignetti I love that name. The the other other guide posts I want to talk about be ready to adapt.

[00:38:39.32] spk_1:
Yes, Yeah. I mean I kind of, I think I already kind of talked a little about this, but there’s this idea that like, you know, we have to be able to think differently about how, you know, each thing that comes at us, like every time we are moving to a new job or a new place, we’re constantly being faced by change. So we need to be ready to adapt. Twitter’s on the horizon so that the idea that, you know, we need to have that skill set built into us around, you know, what else is possible for me? What else do I need to build into my path that allows me to be able to adapt to that change. And I talked about that, being able to adapt to a toxic environment or being able to adapt to a positive environment that still applies here when you can adapt in a more positive way to make a big difference as to how you navigate

[00:38:50.52] spk_0:
and how does that impact leadership then if you are, if you are leading others.

[00:39:45.22] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean when you’re leading others and you’re able to show them your modeling the way you’re helping them to see that how they can adapt is is really how you’re showing them, Hey, things didn’t go according to plan. Let’s pivot in a different way, Let’s move a different direction. Let’s, you know, figure out what we need to be able to change. You know, this particular initiative to something else like during the pandemic, there’s been so much adaptation that businesses have had to take and leaders have had to take because well we weren’t already for, you know, leading in a virtual space from the get go. So we had to get ready for a lot different changes. How are we going to communicate how we’re going to connect with each other? How are we going to just get the business to continue to operate? So there’s been a lot of that, you know, how do we become more adaptable as humans?

[00:40:17.11] spk_0:
I think a lot of that goes to vulnerability to, you know, being willing to, you know, as you said, you know, pivot, try something different. Um, you know, whether it’s the pandemic or just, you know, I don’t know, some event or some fundraising campaign keeping for our listeners in the nonprofit space, um being willing to be vulnerable. I think vulnerability is, is so valuable for for a leader.

[00:40:19.91] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it really is, it’s something that nowadays, um we’ve come a long way from from what was um the way leaders were, that’s still

[00:40:42.71] spk_0:
sort of the Jack welch general motors or general Electric, pardon me, G yeah I’m the leader, follow me, you know the omniscient, I’m the present, you know, grab, grab, grab my belt loop and hang on.

[00:41:45.11] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean I think with when it comes to the you know vulnerable and I know it’s a very often nowadays it’s very popular word to be using the vulnerable leader but it’s not just about being vulnerable, it’s about being true to the people around you being you know, transparent and reel. Um when you’re showing up to the people around you and saying like I don’t always know the path forward, I don’t always have to have the answers and I’m okay with being wrong, you know, there’s this element that they will respect you more. It’s actually like a paradox in a sense because we’re so used to having the leaders having all the answers. But when leaders are courageous enough that they can put themselves out there and say I’m going to lead us forward with your help to move us in the right direction, even if I don’t have the answers, that’s scary, it’s scary to think that like you’re gonna just put yourself out there and it’s like the person who goes on stage to present and there’s petrified

[00:41:47.31] spk_0:
of

[00:42:29.00] spk_1:
doing it but they do it anyways because you know what they believe and the fact that they that what they’re doing is important and what they, what, you know what their company’s mission and what they’re wanting to contribute is important. So they do it and they do it with all the fears included, everything included, the impostor syndrome. They do it anyways. Um and when people see that they resonate with that because they say, wow, now that’s a leader, that’s someone who’s despite of all his shortcomings, despite of the things that his or hers um shortcomings or things that are holding them back. He goes forth anyways, That’s pretty

[00:42:34.90] spk_0:
cool. Yeah, yeah. Um get your bearings and you know, you’re talking about the game versus gap thinking,

[00:44:03.39] spk_1:
Yeah, I love this particular one because this is one that I think I tap into a lot for myself myself personally, which is that we we constantly thinking about like, oh, you know, why am I not where I want to be in my life, where why am I not where you know, where I want to be in my professional career. Um and even when we do set a goal, there’s this expectation that we should be like, you know, maniacally focused on getting to that goal. But the reality is that’s all about gap thinking it’s like the gap between where I am to where I want to be, but when we focus on the game thinking you can really look back and say, well where have I come from? You know, what are the gains that I’ve, that I’ve created on this path and how can I really use that as the fuel to move forward. It’s like you appreciate the journey that has gotten you here and then it also gets you thinking all I need to do is continue to take those small steps and look at the small gains that will, that will take to move from here to the next place, to the next place to the next place before you know that gap that you would have been looking at is gone. So at change in perspective, gain versus gap will get you thinking out of that little, you know, the place of, of lack of scarcity and into the place of abundance. Mhm

[00:44:04.19] spk_0:
How far how far I’ve come?

[00:44:06.08] spk_1:
Yeah, how far I’ve come

[00:44:07.78] spk_0:
versus how far I need to go. Yeah.

[00:44:30.39] spk_1:
Yeah, I mean it’s funny when you’re connecting this back to the whole mountain analogy, which is so true. Oftentimes, you know, that’s the, makes all the difference when you look and you’re saying like, oh my gosh, like we’ve got a long ways to go, then that can be really defeating. Um but when you look back and you say, oh my gosh, how far we’ve come, that that’s game and it really makes you feel like appreciative and like almost proud of, you know, wow, all we have to do is just now we’re we’re three quarters away there another quarter to go.

[00:44:43.59] spk_0:
Mhm You mentioned the journey

[00:44:45.59] spk_1:
and

[00:44:46.08] spk_0:
you make the point that happiness is the journey. It’s not a destination.

[00:44:53.09] spk_1:
Yeah,

[00:44:54.14] spk_0:
talk about that.

[00:46:10.78] spk_1:
Yeah, I think it’s so important that people are in this place of trying to enjoy even the struggles that they’re on in their path of creating who they want to be, who they’re, who they’re destined to be. You know, there’s this element of like, you know, seeing the growth as just something that is, you know, enjoyable. It’s something that they can be happy about um if you’re constantly feeling like you’re missing something, then your life is going to be full of a lot more struggle. The struggle itself becomes even harder because you’re constantly feeling like your urine lack mode. Um So when you come from a place of, I’m happy now and this is who I am. I’m already the person who I want to be, All they have to do now is continue to, to do the steps to fulfill some of the pieces that will lead me to the next thing that I’m, I’m after. It’s almost like you the, you know, to connect to this might lose some people, but the idea that like everything you ever wanted is already within you, you just have to do the process of physically creating it in the world

[00:46:26.78] spk_0:
Alright let’s make sure we didn’t lose anybody. That sounds like, I think you have a quote in the book, You quote someone to, to that effect, isn’t it that everything you have is already within you for everything you want is already everything you want is already within you. I think that’s one of the quotes you

[00:46:30.81] spk_1:
have to have a lot of quotes

[00:46:43.58] spk_0:
at the start of a chapter. Alright, so so say more about it. What what what what are we, you know, what are we, what are we missing if we’re not realizing happiness in our journey?

[00:46:55.18] spk_1:
Yeah. We may be thinking to ourselves that like I could, I’m not being the person I want to be. So I’m gonna use an example. So the example I often think about is the person since today’s marathon monday um in uh in boston we have um the boston.

[00:47:05.05] spk_0:
Yeah,

[00:48:00.37] spk_1:
yeah. Um so which is kind of a momentous considering the fact that the past two years um there hasn’t been one. Um but the the whole idea is that if someone says that I want to be, I want to run a marathon but um I, you know, I don’t, I’ve never run a marathon before. So they had the sense of like, well and how do I do that and how do I become a marathoner? Well, the first thing you can do is start thinking about yourself as being a marathon runner. I am a marathon runner. So internally you start to create your programming to say I am the person that I want to be. And when you do that, you start to think, well what are the things that a person who’s a marathon runner do? How do they act, who do they, who are they being and how can I be that person now? So when you connect with this idea of like, of being that person now, even though you haven’t still haven’t run, I haven’t taken a step yet, since I’ve said that um what you’re starting to think about

[00:48:12.08] spk_0:
it, you should be out there, you’re supposed to be aerobic training, Why are you not in this marathon? Seriously? Come on.

[00:48:29.37] spk_1:
But but the reality is, it’s like, you know, when someone makes it makes a commitment like that or says that they want to do that, the first thing they can do is start to think and act like it’s already who they are.

[00:48:31.77] spk_0:
Mhm.

[00:48:47.37] spk_1:
Like if you say to yourself, I want to be this person who’s contributed this in this way, or a person who is kind and um and thoughtful and such and such, so what would a kind and thoughtful person be doing? What would they do? What would a marathon or I mean, just come back to the other analogy, what would a marathon only be doing while they train every day? They don’t eat snacks, like they don’t eat junk food on a regular basis, you know, they do certain things, they act in a certain way, if that’s who I wanna be, that’s who I am,

[00:49:02.07] spk_0:
then

[00:49:04.07] spk_1:
I got to be that way. Um it’s, it becomes like a programming, it’s a place to come from, not a place to go

[00:49:09.05] spk_0:
to

[00:49:24.67] spk_1:
and that same thing is about, you know, if you’re saying that I want to be happy, then don’t say that I’ll be happy when it’s a place to go to, it’s not a destination, it’s a place to come from, so I’m happy now. All I need to do is to do the things that keep me happy, make me happy,

[00:49:36.47] spk_0:
awesome. Alright. Mhm. What would you like to talk about tone? I

[00:49:39.07] spk_1:
uh it

[00:49:43.97] spk_0:
is tony-martignetti non profit radio you could be the aptly named host, so no, uh I mean I have some other stuff to ask, but what do you want to talk about your your book or your practice?

[00:49:51.37] spk_1:
Well

[00:49:51.81] spk_0:
we can talk about the practice

[00:50:13.96] spk_1:
a bit because I think um one of the things that I found interesting about um coaching with people over the past few years especially is this element of like really wanting to get unstuck, especially when they’re, you know, they’re challenging their business and they’re feeling like uh how do I get to that next place, How do I get that next? You know, past this hump that I’m in um so maybe we can talk a little bit about that,

[00:50:20.56] spk_0:
okay.

[00:52:05.75] spk_1:
Um so one of the things that usually comes to mind and I like sharing this model called, I call it, expand your vision narrows your focus. And the reason why I call it that is because oftentimes the stuck nous that we feel is because we don’t, we’re not seeing beyond what’s right in front of us, We’re just seeing the wall. And so oftentimes, um, when I’m talking with people, I’m getting them to think about new possibilities. Um, what else is possible for me. And so I’ll have them do is I’ll have them say I expand your vision means like just really stepping away from that wall and create some more options. Um, and don’t feel as though you can leave anything out just like completely brainstorm, think differently, you know, what’s on the periphery of who you are, what you’re doing, what your business is up to. Um, and even when you think about it from the nonprofit, like where are the things that like if we’ve only been doing traditional things, how can we get nontraditional? What are the non traditional ideas? So just put them all out there and when you start to explore those different options and you say, okay, well this is the one that I really think is interesting. It hasn’t, it’s intriguing us. Then you narrow your focus and that’s the next part of this, which is to say this is what we’re gonna really spend our time and effort in and all those other things, they just kind of go away and they become not important right now. It’s like you say no to everything else. And this becomes the primary focus of the next move forward until you’ve investigated it. And you find whether or not it’s not the path, if it is the path and fantastic, but it’s like an iterative process, you can kind of say, expand narrow, expand, narrow until you figure out the path that’s really gonna mean a lot for you as a business.

[00:52:22.65] spk_0:
It sounds like the inspired workplace, or at least it reminds me of inspired workplace that you talked about in the book.

[00:53:13.85] spk_1:
Yeah. In a sense, Yes, but it’s a there’s a lot more to the inspired workplace because it’s more than just getting them to think like, okay, you know, you show up in your, you know, going to create an inspired workplace, it definitely gets new possibilities going and gets them thinking differently. But with the inspired workplace, what if I usually tap into there is I want to make sure that people understand that, that you can make failures and you can allow people to really feel safe in the process of doing that, because, you know, constantly there’s gonna be people who are feeling like, can I really share that idea, can I really get out there and do this so like this, we have to make sure that in the process of expanding our vision and narrowing of focus, we also create that safety and trust that allows people to feel as though I can do all this because if you don’t have that foundation, it makes it really hard for people to do that.

[00:53:19.75] spk_0:
That goes back to vulnerability to

[00:53:22.18] spk_1:
absolutely

[00:53:22.99] spk_0:
willingness to

[00:53:23.76] spk_1:
be

[00:53:34.15] spk_0:
alright. Um is your is your official name on your birth certificate? Is it Anthony or

[00:53:34.55] spk_1:
is it is it

[00:53:35.53] spk_0:
is so you use Anthony like when you open a bank account or something like that?

[00:53:39.45] spk_1:
You

[00:53:40.11] spk_0:
do? Yeah, I do too.

[00:53:44.95] spk_1:
Yeah. All

[00:54:05.54] spk_0:
right. Um you want to leave us with Some, I mean you’re pretty, you’re you’re pretty inspiring. Overall we’ll be talking almost almost 50 minutes. You’re it’s hard for me to say leave us with inspiration. You’ve been inspiring. Um but uh I know you want to give it a shot, give it see if you can bundle all your inspiration into uh into a couple of sentences of closing please.

[00:54:12.30] spk_1:
Yeah, I’ll get I’ll get a good closing for you.

[00:54:15.50] spk_0:
So

[00:54:49.14] spk_1:
the one thing that I often tell people is if you’re feeling like you have lost the spark in your life in your work, the best thing you can do is look for the signs of the things that are that do spark you up and do more of that. You know when I when you look at the week ahead, if there’s nothing on your calendar that you look forward to look for, put something on your calendar at least one thing that will get you going that will make you look forward to the week ahead and that is a starting point. You want to make sure they have something to look forward to.

[00:55:00.04] spk_0:
tony-martignetti chief inspiration officer at inspired purpose coaching inspired purpose

[00:55:01.18] spk_1:
coach

[00:55:07.34] spk_0:
dot com and he’s at tony-martignetti one. Sorry about that, don’t

[00:55:09.54] spk_1:
what

[00:55:28.94] spk_0:
a pleasure. Great. Find your over. That’s good. Yeah, we don’t dwell on these things. Right. Of course you’d be the, you’ll be the last person to be still piste off Eight years later that you didn’t get at tony-martignetti that would defeat everything. We just talked about antithetical to your entire being anyway, so what a pleasure to have you Tony. Thank you very much. Really enjoyed the same

[00:55:32.13] spk_1:
here. Thank you so much.

[00:55:35.74] spk_0:
Next week We’ll get back to our 2022 NTCC

[00:55:39.02] spk_1:
coverage

[00:56:46.74] spk_0:
if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. I feel bad about that too. You can’t, you can’t have tony-martignetti I missed this guy’s life up. I messed it up but I was, I was first of the game, what can I tell you, I was responsive by turning to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission and by fourth dimension technologies I T infra in a box, the affordable tech solution for nonprofits. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff shows social media is by Susan Chavez marc Silverman is our web guide and this music is by scott stein, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty be with Me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the The other 95%. Go out and be great, mm hmm, mm hmm.

Nonprofit Radio for December 14, 2018: The Encouragement Show

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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti non-profit Radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with Geren Topia if I saw that you missed today’s show. The Encouragement show Sarah Olivieri wants you to shed fear based decision making scarcity mentality and reflects of negativity in favor of confidence, abundance and an open mind. Your aptly named host has encouraging words of his own to contribute. What a surprise. No surprise. Sara is principal of Pivot Ground Tony Steak, too. Train. We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash pursuant by Wagner. C. P a’s guiding you Beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com By Telus durney Credit card Processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna em a slash Tony Tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine My Pleasure to introduce Sarah Olivieri came down from upstate New York. She’s a non-profit digital strategist, helping Non-profits bring their mission and services to life on the Web. At Pivot Ground, she leads her team of digital experts to help clients increased capacity, deliver better programming, attract more funding and make the world a little better. In college, she studied in Spain, Tanzania and Cuba, then moved to Japan to teach English. Sarah’s company is at pivot ground dot com and she’s at pivot ground. Welcome, Sarah Olivieri. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Pleasure. Pleasure to have you in the studio. Thank you for coming down from upstate. I love it when guests come to studio. Thank you. Always my pleasure. You’ve been abroad. You would’ve brought a good bit in your in your life. Yes, I traveled quite a bit. I studied international studies as an undergraduate. And so that took me abroad. And the University of Chicago University of Chicago led me. Tio move to Japan afterwards. Then I came back and to my home community in the Hudson Valley. Start getting involved with the local non-profit. They needed a conference organized which led to running a program which led to starting my own non-profit on. And then I went and got my graduate degree in humanistic, multicultural education. Humanistic, multicultural education. Alright, break that down to make some sense and what was what’s the non-profit thatyou started. Tell us a little about that. Your first? Sure. I started a non profit called the Open Center for Autism. It was following in. The program they had been working at was a school for kids on the Spectrum. High school on that program was shut down. And so I went and started my own program. If if the state isn’t gonna provide it or whatever, the counties that if the school is gonna provide it, I’ll do it myself. That’s right. And hope you mentioned it myself. Okay. All right. All right. Andi, what? How long were you with that organization? What? What happened? Well, kind of good and bad. You know, what happened was the need became so clear that a number of the other local public schools picked up their own programs. So we ended up not starting this school as we anticipated because the need was filled. S o. That was all right. But it was a great It was a great start to learn all the elements of not just starting a nonprofit. But when you charter school in New York State, there’s a whole bunch of extra things that need to happen on that happen when you’re a fundraiser, right? Right. And, you know, thinking about what you do that really led me to go in, like, Wow. I couldn’t find lawyers who knew about how to register a school in New York State s o. I just dove into reading the law myself, and that kind of even deepened my like the stuff isn’t so hard. No one knows how to do it. I’m just gonna dive in and figure it out, okay? And, uh, how long at pivot ground pivot ground has been since, uh, we had another incarnation that started in around two thousand five. But we’ve been in our current state about three years. Okay, you you brought along some some words of encouragement. Like so sort of some symptom and problem areas on DH words of encouragement. I thought this would be a nice wayto. This is really wrapping up the year because the next the next two shows the next two weeks, there are no shows. So this is our end of year Show so and like, end of your encouragement, looking to the future. Ah, people can be feeling overwhelmed. In this In this hectic fourth quarter, Lots of listeners may not even hear this until January, so it could be the look forward kind of show for them. Um, so what are some of the What are some of the symptoms that you hear in your practice that dahna raise your raise, your consciousness raised red flags for, you know, maybe we should be thinking a little differently. Yeah. I mean, anybody who works with Non-profits have heard these things like, we just can’t do it or we don’t have money for that, or we can’t spend on overhead. All our money has to go directly to programming. Actually, had it was part of a local group, kind of a support group for non-profit. Leaders run by front of mind Susan Ragusa. And we talked about this one day, like, scarcity, mindset. And a lot of it, I think, boils down to money. Um, and a lot of people in that room that day said, Yeah, you know, like, I don’t have a good relationship with money. And my non-profit doesn’t have a good relationship with money on guy. Think that it’s a little self identified when they really raised their hands and say, You know, we have we have issues with money. Yeah, but only in the situation where we said this is a safe space and we’re going to talk about scarcity mindset. Otherwise, I don’t hear a lot of people realizing that that that’s kind of one of the cores of the issue is the This relationship with money and resource is just I think that the people say, like, Oh, we’d better like, do it ourselves And I think the reality the worst reality is what I call D E. Why do everything yourself? Yeah, well, we can’t afford the expertise that we need. We’ll just have to learn it ourselves, which takes you away from core work and distracts you terribly down some rabbit hole that someone could come in and be so much more efficient at it. Um, so these are there’s a lot around you talk about money. There’s a lot around fund-raising, too. I just in your own personal experience, how aware of the fact that you had to raise your own money. Were you? When you started the school program? I was pretty aware my mother had actually run a school in much the same way. She just kind of fell into it and figured it out on the job. I did have some family experience, but, you know, related to the money question. I think, Ah, lot of people, you know, when they start feeling in non-profits like we don’t have enough money, the only they see have tunnel vision. They’re like fund-raising. We need to raise money. But that’s only half of the picture. Like you have to be good at spending money as well as raising money. So there’s two sides to this coin about money, and it’s not all raising money, you know, outright gifts. I mean, there there could be revenue opportunities. Yeah, so look, think strategically. You met you, whether you’re capable of producing product or service is or some form of revenue, that other non-profits or government or individuals and whatever will pay for lots of lots of non-profits have a thrift shop. That’s one way of what’s won. Simple way. Not simple that it’s one common way, I should say of raising raising revenue. But you know when we think of fund-raising, it’s not all grants and gifts from individuals. Absolutely not. Right, your revenue stream of revenue right When you’re non-profit, you’re like revenue. What’s that? But that’s that’s just your total money coming into your non-profit fit, and you want that to be somewhat diversified. And now it might sound like we’re talking about a stock portfolio, but we’re talking about your non-profit. You have to think about having some of you know, if you can charge a little for your programs you want, you may want some revenue streams that way. If you can have a donor base of donors who give small donations more regularly. Some donors who give larger domain donations some grants. Maybe there’s some government funding you can apply for. You want a mixed bag, because if one of those pieces goes away, you don’t want to go under. You wanna have a few Resource is you can pull on and the one you didn’t mention. Eyes events which we see I see sometimes a little too much. If we’re going to take our first break, though pursuing they have two. New resource is on the listener landing page. The field guide to data driven fund-raising is practical steps to achieve your fund-raising goals using data. Plus, they have incorporated case studies and demystifying the donor experience guides you through creating a donor journey, plus savvy stewardship strategies for your existing donors could check those out. Tony dahna em a slash pursuing Capital P for please. Now back to the encouragement show. So events sometimes you know, actually often to too much too much reliance on events. I think that comes from a fear of asking someone directly across their desk for a five thousand dollar gift or a fifty thousand dollar gift or whatever it’s going to be. We’d rather invite people to a big party and have them pay tickets, pay money for a ticket at a table we got, You know, you got it again. Diversify. You see Too much event. Definitely, too. I think you know, it’s natural you get into a room of people is like, What can we do with the like our hands? You know, with with an event, but events, most kinds of events that you’re probably familiar with, that non-profits air doing are the least return on investment, meaning you’re going to spend a lot of money and a ton of energy. But I have event you’re absolutely and you’re going to get a relatively small amount of money back. And when I see happens, is if when you lead with events, then you’ve used up your entire fund-raising capacity, your money, your energy. It’s all spent on those events, and you don’t have time for those activities that actually generate a lot more money. I love the example you just shared, like picking up the phone and calling them and asking for money is like super super effective and the non-profits I know who are really great at Fund-raising their executive director Nose, like a handful of twelve major donors who are interested in supporting their non-profit, doesn’t have to be twelve. It’s just an example, and when they need money, they call them up and say, Hey, we need twenty thousand dollars for this program or we’re going to have to close it or, you know, whatever the thing is that they want if they want to take a step forward. And usually when you ask people for something, they give it to you. I love to test this out, and I encourage people. Tell it out like that. Go, you know, go over to your your friend or your relative or somebody on the street and be like, Oh, hey, could I borrow your pen? They’re going to They’re going to do it. Probably They’re going to feel extremely compelled to do it on DH. It’s same thing. When you ask people for money, people are compelled to give something just because you asked. So this this kadre of close, you know, major donors. However, you define major donors based on your needs. And your work, um, is, you know, you’ve recruited them because you know that they’re committed. I mean, they’ve risen to the top. They’ve they’ve been perhaps been volunteers for you. There were people who asked, What can I do? What do your needs, They shine. You know, as you as you’re listening to this, people are probably occurring to you. Oh, yeah, like she’s she’s like that. We’re that couple. Is that you know where the So those are the people you want to continue to cultivate that they do become sort, of course, supporters of yours. So that when you have a big need, you know, those are the people you can go to when you kick off a campaign. Those are the people you talked to initially before you go public with your number so that when you do go public for your hundred thousand dollar campaign, you’ve already got forty or fifty thousand dollars or sixty thousand already committed. And now you’re just asking people to get you to the margin. You know, the other thirty or forty percent those having that kind of a kadre of donors you can go to who, you know, love your work, cultivate those people that is time very well spent and don’t only cultivate them when you need the money. You know, this is a this is a long term process of cultivation bringing people to your Yeah, I think a great way to start with That is what? What some people call the friend raiser. If you’re nervous about, start by just getting those people in the same room just for the purpose of, like having a positive interaction with them. And that’s a great way to build that relationship. I think that there’s another piece to this where a lot of people, when they think about asking people for money, they feel like they’re there feel like they’re a fraud. Or that, like the person who’s giving them money isn’t getting anything in return. You gotta you gotta cut that shit out way Don’t have. We don’t have AA affiliate AM FM stations anymore, so I’m free. I could I could do the George Carlin. You know, seven words if I if I felt like it, we’re not bound by the FCC anymore. So, yes, you’ve got to cut that out and they are getting something. They are getting really the most valuable thing that you could spend money on. They’re getting a positive feeling. They’re getting the feeling of fulfillment. How else do people spend money to get that feeling? They buy food, alcohol, drugs, people who go shopping to feel that feeling of fullness. What? I can’t think of a better way to trade in money for a feeling of doing. You know, that positive, fulfilled feeling than giving money to a non-profit. And the peace of that is, you know, I just was reading about a business book about you know, what is the most motivating thing for employees, and it’s when they feel they’re making a positive contribution. That lead that creates progress. For an outcome that they’re interested and having fun. It’s not salary. It’s a salary, no snack. It’s not exactly so. It’s the same for donors. They’re interested in the outcomes that you’re having. And when they give, they want to feel like they’re helping in that journey there. Making that step a little piece of that step now belongs to them. A little piece of that progress and that’s worth that’s worth real money to people and share it with them. Invite them in. I don’t mean just right. A right. A direct mail letter that shares a story. Yes, storytelling is important, but I’m talking about, you know, if you’re talking about major donors, bring them in, let them see the impact of your work. How can you show it off if you haven’t figured that out yet? Brainstorm with your staff. Brainstorm with your board. How can you show off the impact that you do? There are ways If you can’t bring people to it, you can video it and present it to them. Uh, you can prove your impact. Do it. That’s how you know that. That’s how they’re going to get the positive feeling that you’re talking about, right? That’s what they’re buying their buying. Something from you. You’re not there. Not just giving you money. I think another piece to this is I remember this one in my early days working at a non-profit cause I know I’ve never had a corporate job on DH. And for a moment, I felt well, thank you for money. I would be a terrible employee. I vacation request forms, Please. Can I have the week between Christmas and New Year’s off? Oh, please. Oh, please. What? Are you kidding me? I just take it and I can’t. I can’t. I would be a terrible employee. I believe the interview. I won’t even show up. I show up late because I Because I don’t care. You know, I’d be an awful employees. I would never even get hired. Yeah. What do you make? The second interview got bounced. I won’t even make the full interview. I’d like I probably walk out. What? You kidding me? I don’t need this shit. Why am I even here? I made a big mistake. I’m sorry. I’m getting out. I won’t even make it through the first e here yet, so yeah, So you know when that came in those early on, I was like, This person makes a high salary, like theirjob is making money in some way. That’s why they have their job, and my job, like the purpose of my job is not to make money. I might be making a salary at my non-profit, but ultimately my purpose is to do good. And so somehow I felt like initially that that the person who is giving me money knew something about money that I didn’t and it felt like the scales were because they have it because they have it on and I need it more than we have, right? So they’re smarter about exactly have your about money than I am, and we are right. But now I know better, and I want non-profits to know better, too. What you’re doing is important, and it’s worth money and and you’re savvy because you’re getting people to give you money in exchange for a valuable experience. You know just a CZ much about money, if not more than for-profit businesses. And in fact, I dive a lot into business. Operations for Non-profits and Non-profits are more complicated than for-profit because you always have to target customer groups, even if you’re you know, even if you’re a teeny non-profit, you have the people who donate and give you money. And then you have the people you serve or the impact you’re trying to make and the people who are going to help make that happen. And so by that very nature, by having you always have to audience Ah for-profit company that small can have just one audience, the people who want to buy their product or service. So it’s it’s more simple in that nature to be a for-profit goodcompany before you have shareholders, right so on. But you know, as a board, as if as a small non-profit you have aboard. So that’s like having shareholders when you’re just a teeny cos. True enough. I’m not a financial stake, but yeah, but absolutely. But there’s certainly commitment, right? Commitment, opinions, human relationships. So be proud of yourself. If you’re running an non-profit, you already probably know a lot more than many for-profit business. You’ve got your three constituencies thie service you’re doing whether it’s two people or animals or the environment, there’s that’s considered outta constituents. Your community and your donors and your board. Absolutely. Right now and then, if you have a staff, you know, whenever there’s relationships involved, I like people think about like, imagine you know, you’ve got one person in the room that’s no big deal. You got two people in the room. You think you just doubled. But you actually tripled in complexity because you have two people and hopes you have the relationship between those two people at a third person to the room. You’re not three times bigger than you were when you were one person, you know, have three people, plus the relationships between each two of those people. And when all three of the people are in the room in your mind and now it’s nine, right, Zack, growing exponentially. Which person you add to any kind of dynamic, whether it’s your board, your staff, the people you’re working with you now are exponentially increasing in complex ity on. I think that a lot of non-profits as they start to grow there, like this spaghetti mess starts to begin. And that’s why Because you didn’t expect that you were growing exponentially in all these relationships. Right? It takes people off guard. Doesn’t it often reflect itself in the board? Because as the especially in early phases, as the board is growing, we need more expertise. You know, etcetera. I see it in the board, but I see in the way staff and departments are organized more as you grow and you start adding programs. Sometimes it’s like you might add a program and you might suitable who in our non-profit, like, has capacity to, like run this new programme and you just throw it in. And then often with my clients, who tend to be a little bigger, they they have these kinds of organizational structures that don’t make sense like that. They don’t work efficiently because they just started throwing things in on DH. They didn’t think like very carefully about how exactly should we organize it? We should just They just threw it in where they could. And then we go through a process of kind of reorganizing. So they get so much time back in their day, Are they going to fill it up again with amazing work delivering their mission? Absolutely. But at least then it’s It’s faster progress towards their mission. Yeah, it’s a more deliberate rather than just let’s throw it in, you know, foisted on somebody who they can learn they can train up. That’s the that’s the kind of you know, Yeah, that goes back to the scarcity mentality. We can’t afford the expertise that we need to help us develop this program. We’ll figure it out on our own. Yeah, and I want I want people to stop, Stop thinking that way because there’s two things that I think if you had, if I had like two dollars left in my pocket, I would buy one of two things or both of these things access to expert advice, not even like how you know if you can’t get help doing it, if you don’t have money for the tool getting an expert to tell you which way to go, I think, is like, one of the most valuable ways because they’re going to see things that you don’t. You’re in your own bubble. Even if you were that expert, you wouldn’t be able to see it for yourself. And once they point you in where your next step is, you have a step to take forward the other thing these days that I think people who are really strapped for money will get a huge return off of is investing in some automation. So we have, you know, computers and the Internet can take off a lot of the busy work that your staff might be doing right now. Or if you’re a solo, you know, solo operation. They’re things that you’re doing right now that the computer could start doing for you and free you up to take some real positive growth. Steps to resource is come off the top of my head in that vein non-profit Technology network, which helps, which helps non-profits used technology smarter so that they can focus more on mission. Listeners know Amy Sample Ward are regular social media contributor every month. She’s the CEO of and ten non-profit technology network and ten Dot or GE, and the other one is idealware idealware dot org’s ah, they They are essentially the consumer reports of technology for non-profits. They don’t accept grants or GIF ts off of technology, but they evaluated and they evaluated objectively. The CEO Karen Graham has been on the show. I think she’s been on twice, just really loved when I was an object strenuously, but I don’t think she loves when I make the analogy between idealware and Consumer Reports. But to me, it it works. So those are two excellent resources that are agnostic, you know that They care about platforms. They’re trying to help you in ten and on idealware. Yeah. And you shouldn’t care about platforms. The biggest thing, you know, I work a lot in technology, and I talk about automation and digital strategies for people and the people. They always come like, what tools should I use? And that is the very last question you ask. First you ask, what problem? And I’m trying just trying to do with it, right? Exactly. And if it’s we’re talking about automation. You need to have a process in place of how you do something. So if if it’s not something you repeat and if you don’t haven’t written down how it goes on like what the process is, then you’re not ready to automate. But, you know, and automation can get, like, really complex. It takes like a bit of like mind shifting to think about automation. But people should start simple with automation, and I often like to just remind people that, like there’s elements of your email that can probably already be automated and say Pierre, which is one of the most common tools for connecting things it can actually automate without connecting to ass. I got I got connected to Zippy or some other from someone else do it just this week gdpr you create zaps and and it links like, Aah! Sales force with your with your outlook, right? And actually, Khun, do some automation is just with one app. So, like, if you if I use it. Teo, you know, if you receive an email with a certain subject, it can then, you know, send a reminder to somebody else. Sorry, it’s very company. We just think the tax that it can automate yes between thousands of it. Very good guts, but they’ve got partnerships with that. You can start simple. Lt’s a Piers has a free level, but for Non-profits, you can get their pro level for free if you put their logo on your website. Oh, yeah, so it’s You can really do a lot with Napier. It’s what a lot of the automation people kind of use at some point to connect things, even if they’re using more advanced tools. So I think that’s a great starting step for people. Symptoms of this. If you if you can use automation, I think of If you’re if you find yourself entering the same data in multiple places, doing a lot of copying and pasting routinely. Yeah, there’s a good chance that that could be automated. Sarah, you mentioned email so there are. There are lots of email tasks that could be automated. What you’re following up with people is huge. If you set appointments or need to remind people to do things, automation is great. For that, you can create a Siri’s of emails that remind people to do something on and for non-profits you, especially if you’re a human service non-profit. You can use automation to help deliver some of your programming programs. If you teach a course in your in your organization, you could turn it into an online course. You could make it what we call in Evergreen Online course, which means that it’s like video. The content is written, content and video that as soon as somebody signs up for the course they can, then access the material, so that’s one great way. And parenthetically, is a revenue possibility. There absolutely will be. So think about it. You could charge for your course. You could have, you know, get a donor to commit to like a matching sponsorship. Everybody who enrolls in the course they’ll make a certain donation. Lots of possibilities for that. Andi, just which other symptoms of we could technology could help us here? Absolutely. And you know, I love still of the classic email course email miniseries, um, the kind of tool that you used to this. Anything that does what’s called a drip campaign. That just means email one goes out. You wait two days or however amount of time you set email to goes out. Then email three goes out. It’s just on a timer. And you, Khun, deliver education that way. One of my favorite uses for that is internally, a lot of non-profit struggle with keeping their staff trained or keeping them up today on policies that they really want them to remember. That might not be that fun. We send out reminders of the critical policies and the organization that the staff, especially if they’re like direct support staff need to remember. We often rewrite them and make them a little more fun in the email. It’s like if you want to read the real, you know the original policy, go to the handbook. But we’re going to make this a little more fun and remind you to, you know, drive safely or whatever those key policies are. So it’s a great way people aren’t going to read like if I give most people like a book and say, Here’s the man, you want to read it yet? Do they read it? No, it’s not. But if I turn it into five or six emails that air just like one or two paragraphs long and remind people in a fun way of the things I need to remember their going to read it. Yeah, Provoc could also be part of a campaign. Exactly. Do this with your volunteers with their donors. Um, okay, Automation. All right, so we’ve spent almost the first half of the show just like spitballing. But this is great. You know, I feel like I’m at a bar and we’re just having drinks and, uh, and there’s thirteen thousand people listening in um, but you know, so, uh All right. So you came with more orderly. You know, this is not all just a spitball thing, but leader now, I mean, this show does get planned, but I love this just back and forth. And, you know, it’s what we’re what we’re seeing through the years. Um, okay. We just have about a minute or so before a break. Let’s introduce this idea of overhead. Yet we haven’t, uh, yeah, the lingering overhead myth. Let’s introduce that, and then we’ll pick it up after the break. Sure. The lingering overhead myth, I think Damn pelota grave. A great Ted talk on it, dates back, apparently to the Puritans. But it’s this idea that there’s your programs that where you deliver all your impact and then there’s your overhead and that the overhead has nothing to do with the impact. And overhead is bad and impact is good. So all the money should go towards those impact. And I’m putting quotes around that because, yeah, around those programme activities and nothing should goto overhead because that’s a waste of money s O. But really, that’s not true. May be after the break. We’ll dive into that. Absolutely will. Because that is not true. And we need to I see it being eroded, but we need to kill it. Well, your C. P s. You need help with next year’s nine. Ninety perhaps. Or you are you doing? You’re nine ninety. I hope to God you’re doing You’re ninety for country. Are you thinking about a c P A change, perhaps in twenty nineteen or changing audit firm, maybe time for a fresh look at the books. Look at Wagner. Talk to partner yet each tomb. You know, he’s been a guest on the show. There’s no hard sell. There’s no bullshit duitz It doesn’t matter. We’re That’s right. We’ll have to see free. So I’m getting carried away. Ah, good weather cps dot com Now, time for Tony Steak too. Train your staff. Basic plan E-giving. I’m encouraging you to get them comfortable. Just opening conversations about the most popular type of plan gift, which is the charitable bequest in people’s wills. There’s no lifetime cost to your donors that can keep it private if they want to. I mean, you, you always want them to tell you, but if they want to keep it private. They can. They can change their minds. These air a couple of reasons that bequests are always I don’t care what size organization always the most popular planned gift. And so that’s the place to start. So that’s the place you want to start getting your staff trained just on the basics again, opening a conversation you don’t need in house expertise. You don’t need a lawyer. You don’t even need a consultant like me. You don’t need a lawyer on your board. You don’t need all that because you’re going to refer people to their own attorney because we’re doing this on a You know, this’s a streamlined which is trying to get you into plant giving. You don’t need the expertise. You can open those conversations. All right? I say more about this on my video. Aunt, I bring in the holidays. You see, as I talk about training is awesome. Holiday in search there as well. Ah, and I did it from a beach. And you’ll find that video at tony martignetti dot com. Okay, let’s go back to Sarah Olivieri and the encouragement show. Okay, So the overhead myth. Ah, yeah. So what do you counsel clients? On who? Who say that they’re concerned about possibly spending too much. And are donors going? Think we’re wasting money on overhead? Yeah. I mean, first of all, be brave, be intentional. Know that it’s not true that this I don’t even like to use the word overhead. I call, I say, its operations, right? So, like operations is the backbone of your organisation. Nothing happens without it. It’s the core. It couldn’t be more opposite then. This overhead myth. You need good leadership. You need structures and processes in place in order to make your whatever you’re delivering consistent and efficient. I love to talk about efficiency with non-profit. Okay? You need technology. Just technology, fundez technology. All these supporting you that costs money. Exactly. You need tools. Oftentimes you invest in a tool and you’re going to save so much time for so much money. But people are hesitant. That’s that D y. We’re going to do everything ourselves mentality. And it’s literally when you have that mentality, you’re sinking your own ship because your your ship is your overhead. It is your operational structure. And then it’s like the cargo is all the stuff you’re going to do to deliver your mission. So if you have a teeny ship and you just load on a ton of cargo, you are just going to sink it and you’re not going to deliver any mission. You’re not going to go anywhere and you’re not going to solve any major problems. So you need to make sure that if you’re going to grow programs, you grow your capacity. That means growing your ability to operate, right? So I hope people can begin to think like overhead is operating its function, its investment. In other words, yes. An investment in in your office, in a nice place for people to come to work on investment in professional development for your staff, an investment in technology investing in the future, right? You’re saying, you know, make you tea to be sustainable and have it be the right capacity. These are all investments, right? This is not wasted overhead. It’s investing in the future right here. If you’re planning something new, you might have to invest for a year or two in it and lose money at it. T get up to speed. That’s an investment in a new programme. Exactly. Yeah, I think I think you’re absolutely right and end its fundamental, you know, too many times to talk about, You know, of course, there’s the Non-profits are messy right on Dne on people say not, You know, a lot of non-profits. I’m like, Oh, man, we’re kind of dysfunctional, that dysfunction. That means you don’t have good functioning, Good functioning. That overhead is how you get good functioning. That’s how you become not dysfunctional, that that’s how you become not messy. That’s how you become a clean, effective, oiled machine that just is doing good in the world and can scale that up. If you want Teo and deliver, you know, deliver to more people, um, or whatever. If your environmental organization make a bigger impact, that is the key to making a bigger impact. It is not, you know, spending. You know, I think that the mindset shift that people need to make is they think, Oh, if we’re spending money on operations, it’s like we’re spending money on ourselves and we don’t spend money on ourselves. There’s kind of like that martyr mentality. Yeah, it’s got to go. Really got to go. You are worth investing in your staff is worth investing in your office is worth investing in. Technology is worth investing if you go to. If you go to your office on Monday and you’re boarding up windows X P you are not investing the way you need. Thio technology. Bring that shit to your boss and tell them this has got to go. We’re eight years behind on and just since this is the you know, I want to give some motivations of encouragement for people. You know you are, but you’re more the story and the story. That’s alright. Bien and Yang. Positive. Negative. You have this in you already. The story of Dorothy, right? Dorothy has the power to return home all along, but she has to go through this great journey. All she has to do is click your heels three times and say there’s no place from home. Well, you if you’re running a non-profit right now, or if you’re involved in one no place like home That’s right. I want to go home. I like to be really directed. Right? So you already believe in your non-profits mission? Like I know this about you like listening, right? Now you believe that your mission is worth investing in, which means you already have the power to believe that this is that it’s worth investing in. But you are part of your non-profit. And so you have to believe. Now you have to take that same belief that you believe in your mission and just convinced yourself you are worth investing in. Because if you don’t invest in yourself and in your organization, you’re not investing in your mission. And so if sues you, connect those two dots you already have that power to believe that you’re worth it. I don’t even. Yeah, the overhead myth. The way we gotta bury it, we got to kill it and bury it. It’s gone. All right. Um, something you have some ideas around feeling like you. You appear that you don’t have enough or appearing that you have too much Teo. Donors what? What is this? What is this second guessing? Why we looking over our our shoulders at ourselves? Why? We’re looking over our own shoulders. How did we do it? Yeah. Why are we looking over our shoulders? Wear we second guessing where we how we’re perceived, you know, I had a nice coincidence. I had two clients start where he will be around the same time on DH within within a week of each other. Had these two conversations, one client was a non-profit who had money and they said, Well, we’re afraid that, like if our website and our brochures and stuff look good, people are going to think we have a lot of money and they’re not going to want to give to us right. And then the other client who was a very small startup didn’t have any money, said We need our we need our brochures on our website to look really good because if people know that we don’t have money, they won’t give to us. And guess what? It doesn’t matter if you have money or if you don’t have money. You have just be authentic. Be yourself, play your own game, run your own race. If you have money, people will say Hey, this organization’s impact is important. That’s always the first thing and wow, they’re stable, They’re sustainable. They have enough money I’m going to give to them because I know that they’re going to keep going for the other one people want to give to their impact the primary driver. Is that like that emotional return? Yes, For some people, there’s the tax benefit. But I really think that secondary or twenty three year, twenty years in fund-raising consulting and it’s absolutely secondary. Yeah, for they’re buying an emotional return. They’re buying a feeling on DH And so but if you don’t have money, then you say, Hey, we don’t have money. We’ve got this amazing thing that we want to do. We have a great way, way so far, right? We want to scale do this with a thousand people instead of the dozen that we’ve served so far. Right. So you’ve got a great argument whether you don’t have money or you do have money with one caveat. If you’re worried that you’re not really delivering the impact that you say you are, measure it. Measure your impact. And if you’re not, if you if you take it and you’re like, man, we’re not really two making the changes. We thought you were just reorganise. Start time to pivot, right. It’s time to invest in that overhead and utter and figure out you know how you can make that impact cause you probably didn’t. You know, there’s a need there. There’s always a need. This goes to also just you touched on, you know, be genuine. Be honest. People can people when they’re talking to you less. So when they’re reading your material, that’s one dimensional. But but it applies somewhat. There. Two people can tell when you’re genuine and when your phony you know, if if you’re a small shop in your producing fancy four color brochures or you’re spending money on lavish video production, when when low production value could be just a sincere and jet or more sincere and genuine people see through that stuff, you know, be yourself. You said it yourself. Don’t And don’t don’t be ashamed of who you are and what you’re what you’re coming, too. Yeah, and when the way you look exactly. And both those problems, you know, relate to those air marketing marketing concerns, and I just like his marketing gets thrown around a lot. I like to just clarify, like what is marketing and because it’s not a department. Marketing is a means to an end. Marketing is about finding people whose who have an issue or problem that you can solve. So if it’s a donor, it means they’re looking for this positive experience. If it’s somebody who you might serve, it means they have, you know, you have a solution to the issue in their lives and then engaging those people who you found who already basically need what you have so that they take action with you. That’s marketing. Yeah. We have to take a break. OK, Eso look over your page air and you’re goingto welcome you to introduce the next topic right after this break. Tell us. Start with the video at Tony Dahna em a slash Tony, tell us don’t think what companies can you talk to toe? Ask them to switch their credit card processing to tell us maybe it’s one owned by a boardmember. It’s a local company that supported you or one that you’ve been thinking about approaching because you have a relationship of some type. Talk to them, have them watch the video. If they switch, you get the long stream of passive revenue from all those credit card um, transactions that they process. Tony Dahna may slash Tony. Tell us for the video. It’s not for the live listener love. We’ve got to do it. Did you think I had forgotten because I didn’t do it after Tony take to perish the thought? Hell, no. I could get it going further than hell. No, but I’ll just stick with hell. No. Um So where are we? So let’s go abroad. I want to go abroad. Russia. We cannot see your city But we know that you’re with us. Russia, Live Love out to you Toronto up north. Welcome. Live Listen, love to you Mexico We can’t see a city And we got multiple Mexico. We have more ellos Mexico as well So we can see more ellos live love to you point a start is and the city we cannot see live love out to you Also, we got multiple New York, New York. Always got multiple New York, New York, Brooklyn, New York is in Queens, New York. Thank you very, very much. I don’t see anybody upstate. Sarah. Olivia. He didn’t bring her tribe, but they’ll listen to the podcast. And that’s the podcast. Pleasantries that come on the heels of the live listener love. You know, it’s the podcast Pleasantries that one dreaded follows the other can’t have. You cannot have one without the other. You cannot. It’s actually matter pleasantries to the thirteen thousand plus podcast listeners throughout the mostly in the US But I know throughout the world, but I know the UK checks in I know we’ve got listeners in Germany and now we’ve got Mexico podcast listeners also Ah, pleasantries, pleasantries to you, the vast majority of our audience. Thank you for being with Non-profit radio. Okay, What did you pick? What we were talking about Next. We’re gonna talk about wasting money, wasting money. What do you got? Well, I think you know a lot of people. It goes back to what we first talked about, right? This bad relationship with money and that a lot of people feel like when we spend money at Non-profits were flushing it down the toilet. When we spend it, it’s gone. That’s what’s happening. And that’s not the relationship I want youto have with money. I want you to realize that the way you should be spending money the way you hopefully our is thinking about what am I going to get back for my money and my getting Mohr value back than the money costs me. So you know, I get excited about spending money, not because I love spending money, but because whenever I choose to spend money in my business, I’m always getting something back that’s worth even more to me than the money that’s going to take me to the next level. So it’s great. It’s always like this exciting moment of growth where I’m getting something on DH. That is the mentality they really want people to adopt this coming year is that when we spend it, we are not throwing it away. But if you’re not thinking about what you’re getting back then, you might be wasting money. S O. This is one of those like, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. If you feel like spending money is wasting money, then the chances that you are wasting money are away. Hyre if you feel like spending money is a process of trying to get more back then you spent then you’re probably not wasting you want value for the dollar that each dollar you spend exactly. So I definitely want you to think about that. Another thing that’s related to this, I think, is a lot of people think about, You know, we need something it costs. I don’t know. Two thousand dollars, twenty five hundred dollars. We don’t have that money. Now. When we have that money, then we’ll spend on this. And that’s just like a process. I was just like in the future, if you have more money, we’ll spend on that. That money is never going to come. There’s not going to be a delivery of money that says you’re marked for this purpose that you’ve been putting off for eighteen months. Exactly gonna happen that way. So here’s the way I want youto think like time. Sorry. Exactly what? You’re not gonna find time now when I could find the time. I’ll do that. No. If it’s something that’s worth, well, you gotta make the time. That’s consciously put the time. Put the time aside now. And if you’re constantly putting it off, then you need to evaluate. Maybe this thing that we think talking about is not that important. Or maybe you’re not prioritizing correctly. Exactly. It’s just it’s it’s recognizing the value of time and the fact that it’s just not gonna land on your desk a week. Oh, here’s that project time you’ve been thinking about for eighteen months doesn’t happen that way. You need to be much. You need to be intentional about it. Exactly. Attention about time. Attention about money. So here’s the new way. I want people to think about it is that if you’re thinking, I need something stop and say What is the problem that I’m having? If you think you need a website if you think you need automation, stop for a moment and say What’s the problem I’m having If you think I need fund-raising say what’s the really cool Rob? What is the real problem? Get down to that problem. Could be a person. It could be a person, right? A process could not be working. A person could be in the wrong seat. It could be You know, it could be any number of things from outside influence, right? Once you’ve found that real problems say, if I fix this problem how much is that worth to me? If I don’t have this problem? If this problem is gone, how much is that worth to me? What can I do next? If this problem is gone and then say how much time money resource is. Am I willing to spend to have this problem gone? And then then you have your budget, if you can solve it for less bio all means. But then you have your number. You have your number, and then you go get that money. You say I need this problem solved. I see this probably the most painful area where I see this is with employees. If you have the wrong people in the job and you’re just, like, afraid toe, let them go or afraid to change their position. That is really hard. But if you ran the numbers, you bilich I’m wasting, like, fifty thousand dollars a year on this person. Shopping, energy and other people see it as well, right? No, it’s about the other people in the organization know it’s a bad fit that they’re seeing a day in and day out of their employees. It’s draining you. Yeah, so your problems are probably costing you more than you realize. And if you really think about that, you’ll be like, Oh, yeah, we’re going to raise that money right now, and that problem’s going to be gone. Let’s talk about something you mentioned early on fund-raising events, events sucking the life blood. What did you What did you say? It caught me. But But I But I also want to talk about you know, that over reliance on events. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I said I think like it sucks the capacity. All of your fund-raising capacity goes to putting on an event because the time Yeah. And then you have nothing left in you to do the more important fund-raising. Like, if you’ve done all other fund-raising strategies and you still have a ton of time and energy on your hand, do an event. But if you haven’t just, like, try not to do that event, try to stop doing it trying to do any other fund-raising strategy event. Also, a lot of times you have tio, um, defeat on argument by a boardmember. Yeah, that events. You know, I just went to this great gala, and they raised two and a half million dollars. Yeah. Okay. Well, so what size organization was that? Did they have entertainment that cost him three hundred fifty thousand dollars? You know, to get to get Don Henley on stage or something. Oh, are the Eagles, you know? So Don Henley here’s the Eagles. Okay, so you know, board members often come with these gala ideas because they just played, and they just they just played in a golf tournament. Or they were just at this lovely event at a restaurant. Is it? You have to help your board members recognize that you likely don’t have the capacity to produce the event that they’re trying to get you to do and then want something you might do is ask them to chair it, right? Exactly. And the event that they went to probably didn’t actually like after expenses. Probably right. And sometimes people think just about you know what they netted at, you know, based of costs, but put on that event, but they forget to calculate that it took, like, one of their employees full time work for three to six months. So you factor in there that salary chances are you’re taking a loss, and a part of the argument is, but think of all the people will bring. We get hundreds of people thinking about us and giving to us. Whoa, Thinking about us? Yeah, they’re thinking about you that night giving to you. That’s a big stretch. That’s a huge stretch, and there’s enormous follow-up That has to happen. And notoriously, event attendees who came because they’re friends invited them are unlikely to become long term sustainers for you. They were happy to do that. They were happy to buy the fifty dollar table or the fifty dollars seat with a two hundred fifty dollars ticket, whatever it was. But beyond that, it takes a lot of cultivation to get them to become close to you that they give beyond the annual event. So don’t let your whoever espousing this this great gal idea talk you into the idea that every everybody who comes is going to become a major donor instantly. It does not happen. There’s enormous cultivation and has to take place after that event. In fact, you know a pivot ground. We don’t really focus on fund-raising that much in a lot of people who come to me with, like we need to do fund-raising I say, Okay, well, what’s your capacity to like, manage donors like, Are you able to follow-up donor follow-up with donors? Do you have somebody who can like put together a fund-raising strategy. No, you need to do that for because there were these hundreds of people who come right reportedly come to this event exam you have No, you have no capacity to fall to do the follow up. Right. And for small non-profits out there, you know your thing thinking like, Oh, I need to do my end of your fund-raising letter. Ask yourself first, Do you have a list of people to send it to? No, but don’t worry about the letter. Move on to an activity you can do Move on to list building host a friend raiser host a holiday party that costs you almost nothing. Get some contacts on your list. Someone someone’s home, right? I love small events are great Hold that thought will come back to get take our last break text to give Talk about email many courses. Sarah was talking about the drip campaign. The five part email Many course debunking five myths. Do you think text donations have to go through a phone bill? And so they take ninety days to collect? No, not true. Doesn’t have to be that way. Do you think there are high startup costs? No, not so. There’s a lot of misinformation around. Text e-giving. You can raise more money, get the email many course from text to give you text. NPR to four, four, four nine nine nine, five Emails. Okay, We’ve got several more minutes for this encouragement show. All right, sometimes, as just now happens, as sometimes happens, I forgot what we were just talking about many events, but I’d love to talk about our pieces in the buying process, wake and finish up with many of them. That something? Yeah. In someone’s home. Right. Deal. This is ideal for the boardmember. Who says I hate fund-raising? Okay, you can help us. Friendraising you can bring some people will bring some of the some people to you’re not only responsible, but we’re gonna have We’re going twelve or fifteen people on DH. There’s going to be a short presentation by me. The CEO on We’re going toe that, you know, that’s something manageable, right? Weaken follow-up with twelve or twenty people. Exactly. And it should cost you roughly nothing. Like usually, like you get a host who has a nice house and we’ll buy dinner and, you know, make dinner you get. Maybe someone else donates the wine. Or you might have a host told Burghdoff grantmaking dinner. Exactly record make dinner or Kate or whatever their level is, there’s lots of people who would host a dinner for eight to twelve people in their homes. You know, you somebody from your organization, a couple boardmember show up and then you just have to Between your organization and the hosts contact list, you invite a small group of people and those can have fantastic turnout’s a great way to spend money and energy that you spend money. But spend energy. Yes, not so much money. Right? So eight to twelve. You could cook for that. But I was thinking, like, twenty might want to cater that right? Exactly. And it all depends on what your resource is air like. Who’s you know who’s house? It’s at what you’ve got. What you waiting get to think about. These cultivate small cultivation events, right? Much, much more manageable in terms of both front end and the follow-up. After that, what’s your point? Right? And you’ve got a follow-up after the event, and you know you really want to focus on that moment. That the donation is given and then expanded out from both ends. What happens? What’s their experience after they gave their donation? And what’s their experience just before? So a lot of people focus on making a great experience so that somebody gives them the donation. But then they forget about the follow-up after somebody gives, which is just a CZ important because you want them to give again and tell their friends that was great. That was the, uh, what What about the donor journey that pursuant as they have a whole, they have, ah, resource on this demystifying the donor experience. It’s exactly what, at twenty dollars slash pursuit with a Capital P. It’s exactly what you’re talking about. That donor journey mapping the experience out exactly. Exactly. It’s really important. Another tip I have for people is, you know, if you have a website, you can probably make a unique donation landing page for each of your board members. That way, when they go out and start soliciting their personal contacts to say, Hey, would you give to my organization? They can send them to a landing page. It’s like This is the donation page for my organization. But it’s got, like, as if I’m the boardmember. It’s got my name and picture on it and what my pitches to most of my friends and that way I know that when I give my friends and I’m asking him to make a contribution when they do, they’re having an experience that’s connected to me and that I know what that experience is going to be. And then for the organization, you know, exactly like you could give me credit as a boardmember, you know, you’ll know whence one of my contacts makes a donation because they came through my painting at the organization’s all trackable personalized boardmember landing page. Yeah, yeah, simple, even a short shit that you like for landing pages. I’m not particularly, you know, we do website, so we actually usually build them in the in the site itself. Um, and otherwise, you know, lead pages. Oftentimes if it’s a donation page, Whatever tool you’re using to list your pages, this is an area where it can get kind of complicated for non-profits picking the right tech stack we call it. That means the tools you’re going to use that all work together, so But yeah, there’s no specific recommendations. Really matter what you have already in places where you need to bring in experts in this, that is the moment. Like private group. Yeah. Pivot ground. That’s right. All right, so there was something we just have, like two minutes or so left you lying process, You know, r r f. P s and the buying process. You know, I think a lot of non-profits rely too heavily on our piece. Like our peace, Our good. Ifyou’re like, we have plans for building and we’re now going to build the building, we need a contractor doing R F P. But you don’t need an r f P for everything. And especially if you’re going to get, like, expert advice or have your situation assessed, You don’t need an r F. Pierre, you don’t need a complicated r f P. It could be like, What are you selling and what’s your process? Or maybe it’s like rather than rpm, it’s an announcement. Like it doesn’t have to be this giant document like, Hey, we’re hiring for this. Come, tell us if you if you solve this problem. And another thing is you, when you make complicated R F P is especially no in the marketing space. Like most good marketers, I know good Web people. They won’t respond to our I’ve had guests on the show talking about the R F P process for tech. Protect provoc. You’re going to get the bottom of the barrel. They won’t respect. You have to intensive. So if you can avoid it at all, costs like don’t do are of peace for tech projects. And then I think another thing is I’ve come across this concept that doesn’t I don’t understand of non-profits thinking, we have to be fair in who were hiring. And I think that this comes from like, we don’t want to be corrupt or we don’t want to, you know, have a conflict of interest that causes us to hire someone out of favoritism. But and you should make sure, though instead that you’re getting the best value for your non-profit. Don’t get this fairness. What do you mean? I heard it a lot like, Oh, well, we just left. Sure. So here’s a great one. We can’t hire someone who’s on our board. Who’s an expert in this because they’re on our board, and it wouldn’t be fair. They already know what the project is. And that’s just silly. I think people get confused about conflict of interest versus confluence ditigal hyre them, they become an employee, and then they shouldn’t. Probably they should not be on your board anymore as an employee, but but they could still be some kind of. Now you’ve got their expertise, right? Or if they offer a service, you know, you know, they shouldn’t be the only one. You asked for it, but chances are, if your board members a professional, I’m sure if you were on a board, you would give your services at that. Probably a better rate than anybody else would. Well, so you know this process of going out and getting a few quotes on something that’s great. But the purpose is to get the best value for your organization. Not to be fair to all the people out there. We’re gonna leave it. There grayce Sarah Olivieri. You’ll find her at She’s at Pivot Ground and the company’s pivot ground dotcom. Thank you very much. Thank you. It was a great conversation. Thank you. Next week, there’s no show. The week after that, there’s no show, no show. For the next two weeks. We’ll be back on January fourth. I hope you enjoy the hell out of your holidays. Take time for it. Make time for yourself. Don’t just look to find it. Make time for yourself some quiet time over the holidays. Enjoy the hell out of it. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuant Capital P Wet Nurse Oppa is guiding you beyond the numbers when you’re cps dot com. Bye. Tell us credit card in payment processing, Processing your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A creative producer is clear. Myer, huh? Chris Gutierrez is today’s line. Producer shows Social Media Is by Susan Chavez Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this cool music is by Scott Steiner. Brooklyn. You with me next week for Non-profit radio Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. What? Great. Go. You’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. Xero cubine you are listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in a rut? 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