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Nonprofit Radio for November 16, 2018: Asking Styles

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My Guest:

Brian Saber: Asking Styles
In fundraising solicitations, one size does not fit all. There are different styles and personalities. Brian Saber sorts them out to make you a comfortable, confident and effective fundraiser, based on what you bring to the process. He’s the author of the book, “Asking Styles.”

 

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, feels so good to be back in the studio after six seven weeks away and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure buba analgesia if you paint me with the idea that you missed today’s show asking styles in fund-raising solicitations, one size does not fit all. There were different styles and personalities. Brian sabers sorts them out to make you a comfortable, confident and effective fundraiser based on what you bring to the process. He’s the author of the book asking styles i’m tony. Take to my farewell. We’re sponsored by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuant by wagner. Sepa is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony tell us on by text to give mobile donations made easy text. Npr to four four four nine nine nine what a pleasure to welcome brian sabre to the studio he has personally solicited thousands of donors as a director of development executive director and consultant over thirty years. Working with non-profits, he needs training programs and speaks nationally about asking styles to help people understand and embrace their unique strengths. As fundraisers. You’ll find him at asking matters dot com and he’s at brian saber. He’s a kindred spirit. We’re going to find out what that’s all about. His book is asking styles revolutionize your fund-raising. And i’m so glad to welcome him. Brian. Welcome to the show. Well, thank you, tony, for having onto the studio my pleasure. A little closer to the mike, the internet. Intimate with that thing. Okay. All right. Now, back in two thousand eleven, almost almost to the day was the november of two thousand eleven. Seven years ago, i had andrea kill stayed on. We talked about asking stiles. Um what? What? What’s happened? What’s evolved since then? Seven. In these seven years. Seven years? A lot. When andrea was on in twenty eleven, we had been quote live for about a year and meaning the asking matters site had been up and we had been promoting the asking styles. And so now we’ve had another seven years to delve into all of this material and what the first thing that changed probably about twenty thirteen, i think, is we change the results a little bit. So you might recall from twenty eleven tony that there were something like thirteen results, you could be one style. You could be two styles. You could be three adjacent styles, or you could be all four. And one of the things we found was that it wasn’t giving the staff and volunteers enough direction in terms of what to do, we found that too scattered, too scattered to say you’re all four or guo your these three didn’t give people a framework or a roadmap forward. And so we we actually tinkered with the assessment, and we narrowed it down to eight results. So everyone has a primary style and a secondary style. Okay, so the primary style is really what you lied from in the secondary gives you a sense of which of these two characteristics on the asking style graph is your dominant characteristic, whether it’s your introversion or extra version or your analytic or your intuitive side. And so having that as a guide gives people more to go on, right? So they’re still not locked into a narrow. Did you narrow your focus is that you focus it without saying you’re in this box or you’re in that box. We wanted people to have a little leeway there, because sometimes when you tell people this is exactly what you are, they say, no, that’s not what i am. And we didn’t want that right now. Andrea is no longer with asking styles and asking matters. Well, yes and no. We are no longer partners. I bought her out in twenty thirteen, but she is now. You bought her out. This was not a force. Was this jeff sessions? A kind of buyout? Are you trump out of session? In fact, andrea, i’m your request. I give my resignation and by and let you buy me out cause i get her on the phone. Yeah, i get it. I’ll get to that available. Did she say she’d be waiting by the phone today? Now she’s actually booked, but but all i did inquire are i know no, it’s graphic. She killing to me and said, i know what i think you should take it over. Andrea is one of the foremost creators of incredibly creative, sorry to use that twice ideas and products. She has brought so much terror field and she loves developing new stuff and constantly is doing so. She has endless undertaken to do it. But she said, you know what brian and andrea not go get? She’s a go getter, right? Talk about all the things we’re gonna talk about. All these right? Kindred spirit. Go get it and show you she’s gone. She’s gone and she is no getting rid of years older than me not to say anything to you what a chunk of your mother she is. And she said, you know what, brian? You can run with this for a long time. I’m not going to want to run this business for a long time. I like creating the ideas. I’ve got places to go. Exactly. And she has. She’s created more new things. It’s incredible. So and it actually inmate sent. So yes. So i took it over. And and but andrea is one of the four experts at asking matters. So she is actually still providing content, doing webinars on dh and such. I have a couple of people who have particular expertise is entree is one of them. So we’re still involved ethan and dear friends, ok, yes, i know. I do know, you never ask a question. You don’t know the answer. But now i do that all the time. Lots of questions, i don’t know answers to, um all right, so we’re going to get to all these, uh, all these different personalities, all these different asking styles, all the different styles, but we got a lead into it. So what a premise of the book is that there is no ideal way toe ass. And we’re talking about fund-raising solicitations. They asked the solicitation, that’s what prism. Everybody knows that. But make it explicit. But there’s no one way to do it. There’s no ideal way everybody brings something different we’re going to capitalize on. There’s no set way. That’s the best. There are best practices in the field. Yeah, but so much of it is about personality and relationships, and that means every one of those is going to be different, and you need to bring your true self and you. And that’s another theme throughout the book, all right. Authenticity and want us to be authentic. In our ask absolutely every step of the way. Because otherwise you can’t form a true relationship of the donor. And if you don’t do that, then the gifts they’re just transactional what we want his donors who really care and believe and want to be involved for the long haul. And that’s only gonna happen if they believe they’re having an authentic relationship with with the fundraiser in the organization. And can’t they tell us they tell him? Absolutely, mister, um is corporate, and it’s not your true self right talking to them, i say all the time. If you if you give your board an elevator pitch and expect them all to go out and give that same exact pitch, unless some of them are amazing actors, almost all of them will sound phony, right? You want everyone to talk from his zoho nick’s own experience in his or her own words. And why is this better done in person than any other method? When we’re in person, a level of empathy develops between us that just doesn’t develop some other way. When we’re sitting across from each other and looking in each other’s eyes, we care more about each other. We’re more vested. We want to come through for the other person. So there’s this bond that you just don’t get when you get a letter in the mail or an email or even a phone call. Because that voice khun b disembodied the reason i prefer to have guests in studio that, you know, body language is another one inflexion, you know, so special, you know, like i’m giving you the finger right now. So you know that, you know that it’s not going well. Okay, so we wait. We take a first break. Very good. That’s the figure i’m giving you. This is the one i didn’t say that. Did i say middle fingers that i say hold it. Maybe i’ll forget it. All right. I’m going up. The index finger pursuing they’re e book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take the secrets from the fastest growing startups and applied those startup growth strategies to your non-profit. It’s free as all their resources are. You’re accustomed to that? It’s on the listener landing page. You know where the listener landing pages? You’ve heard me say it repeatedly. Repeatedly. It’s tony dot m a slash pursuant. Remember the capital p for please. Now back to asking styles. All right. S o much better done in person. All the reasons that i prefer to have guests in studio. I mean, i’m happy to have call, but i’m very glad that you were able to make it in from moline, illinois. Att for am or so what demanded it for am work airport? Because we have this huge storm. Yesterday, it was crazy. And i was lucky to get in because when i landed at newark, there were thousands of people sleeping on the floor i couldn’t believe it was doing here. And people still trying to get onto planes at three. Fifteen. And then when we came through chicago, i did, which was its own madness. Yeah. Ok, that’s not a good way. Okay, so, midway, i mean oh, here must have been a madhouse. Also, it wass everything was a madhouse. Yes, everything fell apart. Transportation was yesterday not surprising. I’m glad you made it. Thank you. Checked in to do it by phone, but i considered renting a car. If i couldn’t get out and driving from davenport, iowa, it was it was fourteen hours, and it turns out i would have gotten home about the same time. Really, you could’ve made it a job if you could have got if you couldn’t write. So asking in person is better. But it’s hard. Yes, it is. It is. It is hard. Just feel better about why it’s worth the difficulty that we’re putting in. No one makes their biggest gift by direct mail by phone accufund by special events. If you want someone’s biggest gift, you have to develop a relationship with them. Over time, no one gives their biggest gift right off the bat. It usually comes over time as they get closer to the organization, as they understand the organization better. And and especially in this day and age where i think we’re starved for in person, right, so much is happening electronically. It makes the in person even more special. But it’s virtually none of those names you see at the top of the donor roster or on a building or a room. None of those gifts came from a phone, a thon or direct mail appeal. They came from building these relationships, so and eighty seven percent of all charitable gifts come from individuals, so almost told to give a compliment of it. You include family foundation’s yes, family foundations in there, as well as the individual gifts and the bequests there. And those total up the eighty seven percent. Wow, you did your homework. I read this book, i think. Very good. I’m disappointed that you’re impressed. That here is shocked. I’m disappointed that you’re surprised that she always put together, for god’s sake, i’ve been at the studio for six weeks. Of course, lycan youth rallied for one show. Excellent. It’s all downhill from here for next two months so well and and your subscription on itunes going going down after this week? Yes. So eighty seven percent of all the gifts come from individuals, and the biggest gifts come from asking in person. So if you want to fulfill the vision of your organization, if you want to have the biggest impact your organization can have, you have to go out. But ask individuals in person. But there’s a risk of you might take personal when there’s a rejection. You know how important it is to the organization or you over you over perceive how important it is. It’s life or death. You know, there’s a lot of personal risk in doing it. Face-to-face there certainly is, and depending on our style, more risk than not. Yeah, and i know we’re going to get into that in in a bit. I will share. And i i share with everyone. People think because i have been in thousands of meetings and i’ve raised tons of money and all my organizations have been very successful with the results that i am this stereotype of a fund raiser that i’m something most people can’t be, that i’m slick and confident, and i get in those meetings and i ask for big gifts. And if people push back, i push back. And i i don’t take rejection personally in all of this stuff and and there are might be a few people like that in the field. But i’m not like that. I’ve had all my own issues to grapple with all these years, and i like most people fund-raising not because we think fund-raising is the most exciting, wonderful thing we could ever do in our lives. But because it makes a difference, none of us grow up saying i want to be a fundraiser. I i asked this question every time i train, virtually no one raises their hand. We we we get the bug for doing something good in the world. We care about the arts, education, religion, a medical cause, whatever it is. And then we’re not a doctor or a musician or whatever, but we realize there’s a way that we can help. And that’s by fund-raising, too, so that our organizations have the resource and help musicians and doctors exactly. And social services, social workers. So we most of us come to it in a circuitous fashion. Not because we have some stereotypical skill set that people think of fundraiser has tohave. What we really need to have is the ability to form a relationship which almost all of us do have right. There are some people who’d rather antisocial let’s go about it at different in different ways. Exactly. Think pacers ways different levels of anxiety, etcetera. All right, let’s get i want just one more point. That is that after thousands of solicitations, i still confined it daunting. I can still be anxious. I can still fun for in a meeting and i still take rejection personally, even though i know i’m not supposed to thank you for opening up. I admire that. Thank you. Alright, let’s get into the styles. Now there are two acts. Do you know the plural of access? Because you worked at a c actually. Exactly right. Axes. Now axes. X s has the distinction of being the on ly word in the english language. That is a plural. For three words is the plural for acts a x axe axe e and it’s also the plural for access. Ex maxis, according to read its bona fide. I read it online. So it has to be true. It must be true. Must be true. All right, so let’s get to the axes. All right, listeners, i’m encouraging you, teo. I mean, you could you can go to asking matters dot com and isn’t there? Isn’t the chart there you’ll see? Right? You’ll see the chart. Okay. Don’t go asking matters dot com. You’d go there. But if you if your podcast listening with the vast majority do, uh, just you need a pencil on paper? It helps. It helps. I mean, you can try to visualize it if you insist, but it helps to have a piss peple a piece paper and pencil draw. Draw a vertical drop vertical axis and what we put on the vertical axis we put you. Look, don’t you guys to look? He’s looking at my teaching e. I wrote the book is look at my sheet people less. Well, where you bonem five. Well, where’s andrea? Didn’t you get her in? Get her bath started here. I think you made it. I think you made a blood thing is a big opportunity to buy you out. It’s funny. I was listening to her podcast and she was so articulate about how you lay this out when i need her to come here today and say that i was safe. She is our first date, so you have to drop both axes. Okay. Did you need the x and a y? Ay, right. One’s vertical once horizontal when they intersect. And they do the middle in the middle. Middle. Not like i wouldn’t make a bar chart from the origin that’s called the origins and mental virgin, so above ha sergeant must sign ok on on that y axis is in is extra version and blow the x axis. Is the introvert okay? That’s the vertical estonian. Why access and accept. Right? But, yes, the vertical line has introvert on top and no extra vert extra proton from atop an introvert. You right on the bottom, karaca. And they have the look you’re not okay. And on the horizontal, i’m a visual learner. I think it’s a link in my own material. Looking my own book. Damegreene goodcompany i didn’t bring your book. My copy. Your book. I guess that was a mistake for you. I have one. Okay. If i have to take it out and then on the x axis landing to the left and right of the vertical line, you have thie, analytic and the intuitive. So analytical is on the left. Correct and intuitive goes on the run. Right. Okay. Can i have your two lines and your four words? Right? You do? Okay. S so we know that you were in a couple of spectrum’s now. So which is which? Is this the style that you like that you seem to always start with? Go get her. You seem to know a mission control’s sorry. No, no, no. I’m sorry, rainmaker. I go from top left and i go claim make right, you stop. Rain, right. Go get our kindred spirit control. So in the tommy off here, tony top lefty, i wish you we gotta get gets to know their material. I’m in diamond barrister. You never know. I live in breach of it every single day. No, we wouldn’t. We wouldn’t. Quite right about that. Thank you. Ah, andrea was articulate. E missed that sometime we’ll have parents, so in the upper left, you right, rainmaker, correct on then in the upper right, you write go gets the go getter, correct. And then in the lower right, you write kindred spirit. Yes, you do. That’s you. That is me and you. We think we’ll come back to that. We’ll come back to that. I have an announcement about that. Okay. And in the lower left, your writing mission controller. Correct. Mission controller. Ok, um what is it? Just give us the overview of these. These four, like sure. How do they relate to each other before we get into the individuals? And how do they relate? How are they different? How are they different? Yeah, well, the key difference. The easiest way to think of the difference is through the core question. Each of these styles asks very good when trying to figure out what’s important to me. What’s going to drive me? The rainmaker top left, the analytic extroverted says. What’s the goal? It’s very quantitative. It’s something you can calculate. You know, when you’ve reached it, i’m going to raise a million dollars. I’m going to close ten gifts. I’m going to do glorious golden lorien. Did the ring make goal oriented? Top right? Go get her, go get her asks. What’s the opportunity? Like the rainmaker, the go getter is looking in the future. But the the go getter is looking more globally, less specifically. What is the vision? What is possible? Reduce poverty in right moline, illinois. This khun b so excellently provoc eliminate poverty, eliminate hunger, save the whales. It’s that type of looking vision for the future picture opportunity wise, right? The kindred spirit bottom, right? The intuitive introvert is saying, what moves my heart? What am i feeling? Because the kindred spirits decisions are all personal, they come from the heart and what they’re feeling inside and the mission controller says, and that’s the bottom left. The analytic introvert says, well, what’s the plan, guys? Because it’s okay to have goals and opportunities and a vision and to feel something. But if we don’t have a plan, we’re not going to get there. It needs to make sense. You need to see how you’re going to get from a to b. This is your detail person. Mission controller. What’s our plan for getting as you just said. Okay. Okay. I love that. All right, um, so let’s talk about then. Let’s let’s make it a little personal before we get into the more abstract, you know, planning your your asks, etcetera, etcetera. Dahna. So you’re you’re you’re an avowed kindred spirit. Yes, i now what’s your secondary mission controller? Mission controller. Ok, you went the other way for me. Okay. Okay. Ah, so so it’s a little more, in essence, that’s you since your kindred spirit. And we would you share that dahna say a little more about the kindred spirit. What? Sure. What do you love about it? And what? What? What makes it a challenge for you? Well, i what i love about it well, i’m embracing myself for who i am. Hard right? We all should embrace ourselves for who we are. I think developed developing this stiles has allowed me to embrace myself and be comfortable with who i am is a fundraiser and a person, and to say, you know what? I am feelings oriented. I take things very personally. I have a big heart. I want to help everyone. I want everyone to feel good. I want to be heard. I want to be seen. All of that is very important to me, those relationships and those feelings and on, and that’s what i lead with. And when i developed relationships with donors, they’re very much based on that there, very personal, and they’re very warm. And that’s that has been my avenue to success over the years as much as anything. Building those relationships very personally. Having a mission controller secondary, however, even helpful talking about the one what you have to overcome as way. We have to need to overcome his kindred spirit. What are our challenges? Well, no one loves rejection, and we do face a fair amount of it in fund-raising, or at least the there’s that fear that it will happen. And for kindred spirits, it’s personal, right for others. Okay, i got rejected, but it was about the donor or it was about the system or they didn’t believe in the vision or whatever. When we put ourselves out there and someone and we really believe we do it because we believe our heart is in it and then someone doesn’t want to support it doesn’t agree. It’s very hard for us. Did we do something wrong? That’s so upsetting? They don’t they don’t want to support what i believe in, and i believe in it so much. How can they not believe in it? It’s it. And i was telling this, ah, this room of fundraisers yesterday in davenport, iowa, that no, that yeah, i’m never going to get that past that you’re never going to get past that feeling, right, and you just have to you just have to embrace it. And no matter how hard i try not to make things personal, they are personal. So i have to just say their personal. What can you do that they’re going to be personal? Said earlier. Even though you know that’s not the way to feel about it, right? It still happens, right? And hopefully, just by knowing it. And some would say under overstaffed ing it being ableto look outside myself and say, okay, i can see you’re that way except it and we’ll figure out howto work with that, that it’s much better tham thinking i’m lesser because i take yeah, don’t write not lesser, just it’s fact based. We were not making judgment value judgments here. But you know, there are value judgments in society about that, and i do think kindred spirits are often judged. Introverts are judged to be inferior to extroverts, though there’s so much talk about this recently, and susan kane has this amazing book on it on the power of the introvert rights called quiets. A fantastic book. Quiet, quiet! Yes, the power of the introvert. I think it’s in a world that can’t stop, can’t stop talking something like that. But in fact, introverts or not is highly regarded, right. And i don’t think intuitive czar as highly regarded as is analytics, which is why everyone keeps thinking of the rainmaker, the analytic, extroverted, as something special and better. I think there is a bias in some ways towards and away from various people of different personalities. But we don’t have to take that bias to ourselves. We’re the person we don’t have to well, judge ourselves. Correct. Based on what society probably is judging, we have to block out the noise and believe in ourselves. Let’s move over to the left and you’re the your secondary style is the mission controller. That’s ah s o. That’s the plan that you’re the planner? Yes. How do we get there? So it’s funny. I details. I make lots of lists, and i always think they need to be better organized. And i’m always taking pieces of paper and trying to put them together and make cleaner lists. But i do have lists, and a lot of people don’t have those lists you have. Do you keep a list of all the lists that you have? More or less your deep into? You sure. You sure? Mission control. Your secondary secondary is definitely secondary. It is myself. Yes, but when people need someone to plan something, they often asked me to do it. I end up in charge. I don’t really want to be in charge. The kindred spirit doesn’t want to be in charge, but i know i can do what i have those skills and people need me to do it, and i want to come through for them. So i do it. But i’d be very happy if someone else would do it. What do you need to overcome as the mission controller? One of the challenges for for that? Well, the big challenge is giving up control, being able to go with the flow and not being thrown off when things veer off course, which can often happen in a meeting with a donor, you go in your you’ve got everything planned out. You’ve done your research, you’re going to hit these topics. You’re going to ask the turn to these questions and five minutes in, they take the conversation in a different direction. There could be a curveball or they ask a question you weren’t considering or you find out they have less time than you thought they had or whatever it is. And for the mission controller who’s planned everything out so carefully and meticulously, it’s difficult to tack in another direction. A lot of what you said about, uh, the relationship building and and the personal solicitation comes through in the work i do in planned e-giving. I mean, if those relationships aren’t so, if the donor relationships aren’t solid through the years, then there isn’t going to be a gift in their estate plan. Or there were times that land if you’re if you’re purely transactional in all in all respects, as people are giving to you through the years, and i don’t care whether it’s fifteen dollars a month or five thousand dollars a month or so are five hundred five hundred thousand dollar gift. If you’re treating it as a transaction through the years, then the likelihood of a plan to give being successful plan give scylla station big. Successful is much, much lower. Absolutely plan gifts do sometimes come by non personal asks. I’ve closed lots of charitable gift annuities all through email, so stations and mail and phone calls. But that’s where the relationship was rock solid, exact and the person was never treated transactional, e or if they were, it was rectified and they felt like they had a relationship. It was relational with with the charity. So that’s the big spectrum of, you know, from your monthly sustainers through toe plan gift. The ultimate, the ultimate gift hyre. So i was seven years ago. I was, ah, kindred spirit and a mission. A mission controller. Yes, seven years. November two thousand seven. I took the assessment on, but you gotta go to just take the assessment, asking matters dot com. It was thirty thirty. Questions. Yes, thirty very simple questions like eight eight eight ten words per question. Mean brief questions. Yes, no boom. It only takes a few minutes asking matters dot com not asking styles dot coms don’t go asking style dot com. That’s a point site. No, i don’t know what’s there, but actually that will do. Redirected our site to oh, good. So you do own asking sound. I thought, all right, all right, but just go directly. Sure we do. So you don’t have to go through pornhub goto asking matters dot com. Take the assessment. Thirty questions. It’s really fun, even if you’re not a fundraiser if you’re not a fundraiser. But but i have said in that interview with andrea that i aspired to be a kindred spirit and go get her so i was disappointed in my outcome. Come on. I want to be now taking it very recently this morning i wanted i wanted to be. I wanted the results to be fresh. Um, i’m still a kindred spirit primary, but now i’m a secondary go getter. You are. I evolved or i just answered the questions to the desired outcome. No, but i didn’t do that way. No, i did it honestly. So i have evolved. So we just have, like, thirty seconds before a break. But you can evolve, right? You know, i didn’t know you knew. Didn’t you answer the question differently because she just thought about it a bit differently today than you did seven years. We don’t evolve. No. We learn how to live in the world. On we learn we learn how to embrace our strengths and deal with their challenges. But we are who we are. I think we’re wired a certain way, but we weigh, manage our lives. We manage all sorts of relationships with all sorts of people. And and and certain skills are become more important in certain parts. And in our lives, we take leadership roles. And so we we need teo, focus on the differences of skills. And so we’re using different parts of our toolbox. But we are still who we are, right? Maybe i pulled the top. Maybe i pulled the top shelf off the toolbox. It’s dangerous for me to make two references on, because the first time i used a phillips head screwdriver, i had to go to the emergency room like, all right, we got to take another break. Regular cps. Are you not satisfied with your cpa firm? They’re not paying enough attention to you. Are you thinking about a change in twenty nineteen? Look at wagner. Check them out. You know where to go. Wagner cps dot com. You’ve heard that. Then talk to you. Coach tomb. Their partner. He’s been a guest twice. I trust him. He will be honest about whether wagner can help you. You gotta weinger cpas dot com now time to tony’s. Take two. I need to say farewell to our affiliates. This is the last show for our affiliate stations throughout the country. The affiliate family just hasn’t grown. The affiliate stations are not procreating, if you will, at the rate that i need to make the investment of time and money worthwhile. In that program, i’m enormously grateful to the affiliate stations and listeners that we have. Thank you. Thank you for being with us stations and listeners. I thank you. I just wish you had more siblings. I needed you to procreate more. I tried to get more siblings, but it takes a lot of time. And they’re just not it’s not coming through. So for our affiliate listeners, of course not. Proper media is always with you. Always available to you. Um, on itunes on google podcasts on stitcher andi. Lots of smaller wraps that you probably have never heard of. So we’re still with you. We’re still available to you. Stay with us. You don’t have to leave. I don’t want you to. I just need you to listen differently. And i’m going to do the men of the affiliate affections first, because i i do have affection for our affiliate listeners and stations. And i regret that this has to be the last show. But affections to our affiliate station family and to our affiliate listeners. Thank you, live listener love. It’s got to go out. It goes out to jacksonville, florida lake worth, florida russia were going abroad how that happened so fast. Ok, well, we’ll do. We’ll do. We’ll combine it all, um, delhi, delhi, india, russia. We can’t see your city, but live. Listen, love goes out to the coast to the whole country. Why not? Um, it’s leadership that a little concerned about. But to the people the life goes out. The love goes out another tampa, florida we got tampa lakeworth and jacksonville. Wallington, new jersey, new york, new york, new bern, new bern, north carolina live love out to new bern, korea. Can’t see your city gets anything. Cities, korea, netherlands live! Love goes out doesn’t matter. And seattle, washington and connecticut live love to each of our listeners. Thank you for being with us and the podcast pleasantries toe are over thirteen thousand listeners podcast each and every week. I’m telling you, it makes it so much easier to get good guests like andrea kill state. I mean, like brian saber, when i can tell them that there are thirteen thousand listeners. Alright, people put up with this. I wouldn’t i would walk out. I’d walk out. I’m getting my amusement for the day when they know that there are over thirteen thousand listeners each week. It helps with sponsorship too. So i thank you. The pleasantries to our podcast listeners. I thank you for being with us. All right, all right. So i learned a lesson. We’re not evolving. You were pretty much pretty much born into born into our asking styles quadrant and and that’s it. And we just apply different skills as needed, right? We’ll have a least a little bit of all of thes, and we call on it when we need it. We do it right, right. It’s not as if the rainmaker can’t be carrying insensitive and the kindred spirit can’t be strategic and goal oriented. It’s a matter of what we lead with, right? What? What’s court of us that dictates the styles. But there’s a bit of all of this and all of us. Let’s apply this to our donors, because where we know that we now have a style. And if we don’t know what, we’re going to go toe asking matters dot com and find out what it is. And then we’ll get the book to asking stiles. Just get the book. You could find the book asking matters dot com and then, oh, so but our donors have styles absolute. So if, if our donor happens to be in the same of the same style is us or at least on the same end of one of the axes you know next to, because the next twos they tend to work well with each other, don’t they? The next, the next two’s work well, and the well, they can tell you have a certain commonality. Commonality. I think the analytic intuitive pieces is particularly important, their meaning. If you’re an analytic, a rain maker or a mission controller and your donor is a a rainmaker or mission controller, you’re talking more of the same language. And if you’re both intuitive, sze go getters or kindred spirits, you’re talking the same language. Right, or whether it’s facts and figures or it’s a heartfelt story. There’s just there’s a bit of commonality there, and to me, that’s actually the mohr important parallel than the extra version introversion. Ok, right, ok, i think an introvert extrovert can establish a rhythm. Each has to watch out for the other. The extroverts has to slow down a little bit. Thie introvert may have to speed up a little bit in there in his air, thinking and speaking, but they they evolved a rhythm, and we’re used to doing that in society. I think the analytic into it is intuitive is a bit different, though, where i think we tend to associate with people who think like us right, whether where facts and figures, people’s people and we’re looking at outcomes, measurements and things, or where sharing heartfelt stories. So all right, so let’s start. Let’s apply this to our donors now, because if we can figure out where they are, if not if not a style than certainly what end of maybe maybe what end of different the two different axes on ly word in the english language? And as is the plural for three for three cingular’s. Then we can anticipate what they’re questions might be, what their objections might be, how they’re thinking about what we’re talking about. So how can we give us some strategies figuring this out for donors that where you have a relationship with now or someone were thinking we’re going to be soliciting? Well, we would have a relationship. Now, how can we apply? This? Could be suss this out. So there are a number of ways to figure this out. If you don’t know a donor well, and you’re going to set out to meet with this donor. You asking events, would you like me to send you any materials? Is there anything you’d like to know about before we meet and the analytics in particular? The mission controllers are going to be the most like. Please say yes. I’d love some material. Mission controllers will review as much material as you give them. They wanted to know all the facts and figures the rainmakers, the more strategic ones. But the mission controllers, everything you give them go getters are go. Getters of the most likely say, i just come talk to me now. That’s ok. Just come talk to me. We’ll figure it out so somewhat. Based on the material, whether people asked for material or not now much they asked for it. You can figure it out. Okay. God, you can figure it out. By which of your donors go to your special events o r. Or at least have a good time when they go. You hate events. Hate events. Yes. I hate gatherings of more than about six people actually. Which which is very funny, since i spend most of my life now doing workshops. First, i had two hundred people in this room sitting in the studio right now which would give a seventh in here to make you want that i’d have to leave, and then you could bring entree. And because she really likes these big total, not that’s why you’re here. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Ah, close. But it’s but it’s ironic. People would not expect that. But you’re very open about it in the book. Yes, i avoid events at all. Counterintuitive. I should say it is because i have learned to adapt. Right? I regardless of what you may think of the moment, people generally think i’m articulate and and i, i come off with a certain amount of presence and such, and i’ve learned how to do that to operate in the world. But it’s not my comfort zone, right? I mean, i was speaking to this room of people. Yesterday was not my comfort zone. Did i like the fact that i was sharing information that i thought was helpful to them? I like teaching. I like helping people be better. But i had no desire to be in front of that room or even in the room. And as a matter of fact, as soon as all the speeches were done, people hung around in the room to schmooze a network, and i made a beeline for the door. Even though i was the keynote speaker, i actually i must say i went out into the hallway because i had i have had enough. Can you share a start? My voices crack you fourteen, fourteen years old. Can you share a story when dahna thinking about a donors style helped you buy-in ah, solicitation. Anything coming to mine and put in the apse? No, i know immediately. I can think of a very significant donor at hudson guilt, one of the old settlement houses here in new york city, where i worked for many years and everything for her was about the children in the daycare and kindergarten programs, and for her it was about being in the classroom and hearing these stories about the kids. Even though she had a finance background, she never once asked about outcomes measurements. It didn’t matter how many kids exactly were being served what our goals were. She knew these kids were there, that their lives were being impacted. And and so it was all about sharing those stories and getting her into the kindergarten and the head start center clear as day. So that’s that’s an example. Yeah. All right, we gotta take a break. Tell us for pete’s sake, think of the companies. You can refer and ask them. Will they switch their credit card processing to tell us so that you can claim your long stream of passive revenue? Month after month, it’s coming to you. Fifty percent of the processing fees tello’s earns go to you every month. Start with the video at tony dot m a slash tony. Tell us, then get asking the companies. Now back to brian saber and asking styles. Uh, our listeners like stories. That’s why i put you on the spot for our first story. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, this has great application that when you’ve done these thousands of sea pulsations when when? In the course of your thousands did you and andrea start start this work? Unfortunately towards the end couple weeks ago? Yeah. No, no, no. It was from two thousand ten, and so right. Well, i had i had been a fundraiser my entire career. So at the point andre and i met, that was more than twenty five years. I’ve gone through a number of campaigns, and i was always the frontline fundraiser. The person who cultivated and solicited major gifts in person who worked with the board. I did the work that had to be done. I never actually wanted to do it per se. I did it because i wanted to make a difference right now. So i did tons of that work forever. Now, since starting asking matters, i have worked on campaigns. There’s a an organization very dear to me in chicago called northwestern settlement house. It’s a it is a settlement, just like hudson guild in new york. I’m a massive fan of that model of cradle to grave service, and i’ve done a number of campaigns with them. Ron, who i talk about in the book and who even talks about his experience in the book. Ron, matt, man anderson and a shine. Yes, amanda shaw. Yeah, he’s a twenty five year buddy of mine. You guys get a lot of asks together partners, we believe i’ve been in a thousand meetings together in all this time. So the good news is the last big chunk of them came after we started this because the settlement finished a campaign now, probably about two years ago, and ron and i again were really the leads to listeners. They’re so we spent a lot of time together asking for gifts, cultivating toners and asking them. And i could see us through this prism of the asking styles, and it was really enlightening. It was enlightening because ron is a go getter. So it became so much clearer as to what he was bringing to the table what i was and the fact that we’re both intuitive and neither one of us was a leading with the analytic peace, even with our analytic donors. And you know what? That was fine. So we didn’t change anything. We did. But we embraced what we did more fully once we had this. This asking styles rupert to deal with were teasing the idea of partnering. And i’m goingto tell listeners that for insiders, brian and i are going to talk about partnering. So if you want to be a non-profit. Radio insider, go to tony martignetti dot com, get the insider alerts, then you’ll have access to the that the insider content. And in this for this interview, it’s going to be about partnering with a ko solicitor, basically, ah, and and using the styles, of course. Um, all right. How about well, s o? I feel like i’m jumping around, but going back to assessing your donors, i mean, certainly if you have a relationship, if you know the person through the years, um, that will obviously in form you’re figuring out what style they are. Absolutely. You learn their rhythm. You see whether they pause before answering questions way often talk about this the moment when you ask for the gift. And then what happens after? Well, a mission controller is most likely to pause for longer after you’ve asked to think about it. Where is the go getter is probably going to jump in very quickly with some gut response. So so as you spend more time with your donors, you you pick up on their traits such as this, right? What? The rhythm in the conversation, the questions they ask you. How many questions they ask you? Yes, right. Kindred spirits are less likely to ask questions right in the room. When i train, you’re the introverts are less likely to speak up, which means you. You have to sort of anticipate you have to try to anticipate their questions because the introverts aren’t going to be asking. And if you’re not fulfilling what they need to be favorable to your solicitation, they’re going to leave the meeting unfulfilled, and you will to write. And i don’t know for jumping ahead or whether you plan to cover this. But this is important for boards of directors as well. Latto understand the interactions of the board members. That’s the dynamic of the board, right? Because in a board meeting, the introverts are less likely to express their opinions. So if you want your entire board expressing its opinion, if you want all the voices at the table, you have to be particularly sensitive to your kindred spirits in your mission controllers, who in that large group are less likely to speak up? Okay, we may. We may come to the boy, us. If we don’t come to the board, then just by the book, for god sakes, goto asking matters dot com. Get the book. You know, we could get these brilliant authors. Well, we get these authors, and, uh, you know, semi are starting the catskill semi articulate on and, uh, and we can’t cover everything. It’s impossible. So everything so just get the book. But i will try to have time for the board because boards are big challenge. Yes, i do want to talk about preparing how preparing for your solicitation. And, of course, you know, solicitation that could be over a solicitation. I mean, there’s a meeting, but the course of the the course of that phase of our relationship could go over months, sometimes in back and forth and not this program or this program, but not that way. Or, you know, etcetera, att least implant e-giving. That’s certainly the case, and it’s got to be the case in major e-giving. Sometimes, too. Yes, well, you know, major giving to me there are two ways to look at major gifts. I think of a major gift as any gift worth the time to cultivate and solicit in some shops. There, they’re going to put a cut off, and it’s going to be those very large gifts for new programs for buildings or for plan gifts. But i to me, a major gift program is made up of all of the donors and hopeful donors prospects who have the ability to make a gift of a certain level that’s worth your time because everything needs to be customized and personalized. And that takes some time. So so major gifts could be twenty five hundred dollars gift to the annual fund, right? Your hundred thousand dollar a year organization. You’re going to go out and solicit a number of these to me. Those are major gifts and some of those gifts. So some of those gifts will happen fairly quickly with one meeting or two meetings. The bigger meet the bigger gifts. Those transformational gifts often take months and multiple proposals and bringing in various programs, staff and such donors. Advisers correct. All right, so so it’s it’s a process, yes, but so in terms of preparing for the meeting or the process, um, how do you ah, how tow us. Ah, how do we kindred spirits? Best prepare. How do we prepare? The best thing we can do is go visit the program and re acquaint ourselves with the program. It’s particularly important for fund-raising professionals because we can get very caught up in our day to day work, and sometimes we’re not near the program. Physically, we might be in a satellite office or something like that, and and and we don’t touch the program for a long time. We don’t see it in action. We don’t meet the participants, and that is critical to us because everything so personal. So the number one thing you can do to prepare is to go visit the program and get revved up again about it, because at the end of the day, all of us have to break. We’re all making our own case for support, telling our own story about why the organization’s important to us. That’s a very important piece of of the preparation for the kindred spirit. It’s it’s all going to be a personal story about a participant or their own journey. And and and so visiting the program enforces that. Okay, let’s go to your secondary. The mission controllers. How do they best prepare? They plant? They do a lot of research, much more research than the intuitive to go getters in the kindred spirits. Much more research on the donor that they will. I’ll plan out the meeting very, very specifically, even planned a meeting planned the meeting out. And how do we think the meeting will unfold? They’re more likely to have, ah, complete list of questions that they’d like to ask. They they’re gut will be to send information in advance because that’s what works for them. One of the exercises that asking matters is we asked people if someone were going to come ask you for a gift, how would you like them to do it? And how does your style impact that? Right? Well, mission controllers will often say, i want you to send me a lot of material in advance, so i can see it. And i can be prepared when we meet. So if your mission controller development officer your gut right, your natural inclination is to send a lot of material because that’s what you’d like. Now, once you get to know your donor, you might know your donordigital appreciate that you’d have to pull back on it, but often we don’t know our donors that well, so the number one thing to do is go with our own gut and our own style. So that’s how the mission controller would come here. We’re going to take our last break, and then we’re gonna come back and talk about how my secondary the go getters should best prepare. Okay, hoexter give. They haven’t email many course. Five myths of text giving debunked they’ll give you info so you can decide if this is a fit for you. The the the idea of text giving and then whether text to give fitz specifically, you hear all the hype about mobile e-giving get through that. Get the five part many course comes to you by email. Learn what you need to know. How do you get that? You text n pr november papa romeo to four, four, four, nine, nine, nine. Okay, we’ve got several more minutes for asking styles. Gladly. Uh, so the go getters, how would they best prepare for this solicitation meeting or process? Well, it’s funny that you say that because they’re the least likely to prepare. They winging it? Yeah, they’re very comfortable revolution. They’re very sure of themselves. And they are very good at being thrown into a situation and thriving whatever it isthe relating to various people keeping a conversation going, keeping the energy up so they tend to prepare less. What i do say to go getters is okay. I get that you’re going to prepare less than you’re comfortable. That’s fine. But everyone can benefit from from practicing their story their case for support because you don’t want to take a lot of time to tell it you wanted to be concise because of you share a lot with the donor. The donor is not going to hear what you’re saying. They’re not going to remember what you’re saying. And go getters tend to talk a lot too much. They can talk to much as a matter fact. Ron and i joke about how he can go long. He could go long, and it’s my job to rein him in and cutem uncovering the table, right? So go getters. Don’t prepare that personal story, which should only be a couple of minutes. Their tendency will be to go on and the story will lose it. So that’s the number one thing they should do. Ok, and how about finally the mission controllers? Preparation of the rainmaker? The rainmakers range, right? They’re going to want to review the outcomes, measurements and the goals of the organization because they’re going to tell the story their story through those because that’s what drives them right? The that we’re accomplishing x, y and z where sure, we’re making a difference because we reach this point and we made this difference with this many people and so forth. So they’re going to want to review that. They’re the most strategic, so they’re going to want to think a lot about where do we meet? What questions do i ask you? How do i how do i elicit certain information and a certain reaction and so forth so they’ll be rather strategic. Maybe without getting into the details the mission controller gets into. We just have a few minutes left. So i do want to talk about the board because that’s a that’s an important topic. Brian likes to ah, do his asked to the beverage. You will have to get the book to figure out why. Find out why he loves why it’s important to him to have a beverage in his ass just by the book, for god’s sake. All right, the board. So you would you would like us to. We just have a few minutes left. You would like us to have to have the board take the assessment. Absolutely right. It’s so effective. Lots of boards. What comes out of this? Tell us. Tell us due illustrated with a story. Well, i will give you a story from when andre and i were first testing the assessment. Okay? We had a small university in upstate new york. Take the assessment. The vp for advancement had his board take it. And and andrei and i looked at the results and we said, oh, no, it doesn’t work. Something’s wrong with the way the person i designed the test for us calibrated and so forth and so on. So with are did you think something was wrong because everyone on the board was a mission controller and we thought, well, statistically, that’s impossible, right? We may be there were twenty responses. So with our tail between our legs, we went back to the vp and said, we’re really sorry we’re gonna have to do more work. It doesn’t seem as if the assessment is correct. Everyone showed up is a mystery controller, and the v p said, that’s exactly our problem. Everyone is a mission control. You’re right. That is it. The dynamic is all off. We don’t have the go getters with the vision. We don’t have the rainmakers to keep us focused on accomplishing goals. And we don’t have the kindred spirits to remind us that this is about helping people and we have to have heart. So on a board, you want a mix of the styles for a variety of reasons. Committees, leadership. Well, right? I mean, aligning people to work together, deciding who, maybe who the leadership should be absolutely, and who ever every one of these organizations does. Special events, unfortunately, but you want to mission control are organizing them so the details or set right and you also want to go get her at the event. Who’s going to be really wonderful in the moment? So in some cases you might design board members to the work based on their style. But at the very least understand the dynamic of the board based on everyone style, just as you would in any behavioral analysis of staff for people in general. Ok, how about for the c suite? You see value there. We don’t talk about that. I don’t think it’s in the book. That’s interesting. I don’t. And that is interesting because i speak too many development directors who are aware of their executive director’s style and how that impacts them one way or another. And each executive director brings something different to this fund-raising equation based on his or her style. So the rainmaker is going to be rather driven right for their organization on. They’re going to like the big gifts because they want to make big impacts. The go getters will be happy to meet anyone. The development office wants them to meet and we’ll be charming. But it will be up to the development office to be strategic about that behind the scenes. When you have introverted executive directors, that could be a little more challenging to get them out. But, of course, the kindred spirit, you know, cells with the heart, and people usually really admire that. Executive director. But sometimes the kindred spirit executive director doesn’t want to make the hard decisions that need to be made in leadership on mission controllers when their executive directors can need to watch out that they don’t get into the weeds, that they don’t micromanage. So there’s value for the for the people working for the what of the c suite to know what you’re boss’s style is a way, i guess we need to encourage the c suite itself to recognize where it stands and ah, what it’s opportunities are and what it’s what it’s potential. The pitfalls are and to appreciate all its staff for who they are. Yeah, all right. We have about a minute or so left, and i want to enter the same place where we started. But authentic. You know, your authentic self. Remind us why that is so important. Using all these styles fund-raising good fund-raising the fund-raising that that leads to gifts year in and year out and larger gifts over time. And donors who really care about organisation. Though this is all based on relationships. If if you’re not authentic with your donor, your donor will smell it and your donor want to build that relationship. Who wants to have a relationship with someone you think is phony? So if we’re looking for longtime donors, we need to be our authentic cells and not worry about anyone else. Brian saber goto asking matters dot com take the assessment. Get the book which is asking styles. Thank you so much, brian. Thank you so much, tony. We planning to be here next week? There’s no show. Happy thanksgiving. You’ll be with family and friends. I’m sure i urge you make time for yourself. North. I didn’t say fine time for yourself. You never find it. You’ve gotta make time for yourself alone. Time. It’s important, even if you’re not a kindred spirit. Um, so and i have a thanksgiving. Thanks. Video. Which you’ll find forget to promote my own stuff. Go to tony martignetti dot com. I have a video e-giving my thanks to you for your support of non-profit radio. I don’t know if i say thank you too often, but enjoy your thanksgiving. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you. Find it on tony martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuing by wagner cps guiding you beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com by telus credit card and payment processing you’re passive revenue stream tony dahna slash tony tell us, and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. Npr to four four four nine nine nine our creative producers. Claire meyerhoff sama liebowitz is the line producer show social media is by susan chavez. Mark silverman is our web guy, and this great music is by scott stein of brooklyn, new york thank you for that information, scotty. With me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great buy-in. You’re listening to the talking alternative network you get to thinking. Cubine you’re listening to the talking alternative net. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, i’m nor in santa potentially eight. Tune in every tuesday at nine to ten p. M. Eastern time and listen for new ideas on my show. Yawned potential live life your way on talk radio dot n y c. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates interested? Simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. You like comic books and movie howbout tv and pop culture. Then you’ve come to the right place. Hi, i’m michael gulch, a host of secrets of the sire, joined every week by my co host, hassan, lord of the radio godwin. Together we have over fifteen years experience creating graphic novels, screenplays and more. Join us as we bring you the inside scoop on the pop culture universe you love to talk about. Wednesday nights eight p. M. Eastern talk radio dot and wives. Did you know you’ve been playing poker your whole life, even if you’ve never played a hand of cards? Hi, i’m ellen lake and author of polka woman and host of the new show poker divas. On the show, i talk about poker. Strategy helps you win in business, life and love tune in live every thursday one p. M to two p. M. Eastern standard time on talk radio dot n. Y. C. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you a conscious co creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? Um, sam liebowitz, your conscious consultant. And on my show, that conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen, live at our new time on thursdays at twelve noon eastern time. That’s the conscious consultant, our awakening humanity. Thursday’s twelve noon on talk radio dot you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah.

Connect With Your Planned Gift Donors

In talking to donors and potential donors to your Planned Giving fundraising program, it helps to be aware of the history and culture those folks grew up with in the mid to late 1900s. At least be curious about that period. Start with Abbott & Costello. 

 

Abbott & Costello’s “Who’s On First” 

Nonprofit Radio for October 12, 2018: KPIs & Fundraging

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Anna Rhodes & Brenna Holmes: KPIs
Our panel from the Nonprofit Technology Conference (18NTC), shares its wisdom and insight on using key performance indicators to build consensus around goals and measures for your nonprofit. They’re Anna Rhodes and Brenna Holmes from Chapman, Cubine & Hussey.

 

 

Amy Sample Ward: Fundraging
Amy Sample WardIs your org positioned to accept help from supporters who are pissed off and want to channel their anger to something constructive, like raising money for you? Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor and CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network (NTEN), explains what’s going on and how you can take advantage.

 

 

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent under aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with gastro inter opto sis, if you brought me down with the idea that you missed today’s show kp eyes our panel from the non-profit technology conference eighteen ntc shares its wisdom and insight on using key performance indicators to build consensus around goals and measures for your non-profit they’re anna roads and brenda homes from chapman, cubine and husky and fund-raising is your organ positioned to accept help from supporters who are pissed off and wanna channel their anger to something constructive, like raising money for you ? Amy sample ward, our social media contributor and ceo of and ten non-profit technology network, explains what’s going on and how you can take advantage. Tony, take two thank you, responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled tony dahna slash pursuing wetness e p a is guiding you beyond the numbers regular cps dot com bye tell us attorney credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash tony, tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr, to four, four, four, nine, nine nine here are and erodes and brenna homes with k p iis. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc non-profit technology conference in new orleans. This interview is sponsored by network for good, easy to use, dahna management and fund-raising software for non-profits. My guests are on a road and brenda homes. Anna is deputy director of analytics at chapman cubine and husky, and brenda holmes is vice president of digital at c c h ladies. Welcome. Thank you. Glad to have you both have you. Have you done your session already ? We did. We just just finished, finished all your coming off it, all right, it’s coming off the hyre exact. The bar is open now. Life is good. You’re topic was, but are we making progress, establishing and using kp eyes ? Okay, uh, maybe we’ll start with, make sure that everybody understands that a k p i is a what you stated in unison together, keep performance in the caner. We see that the voice okay, i think that’s pretty well understood, but let’s, just make sure, okay, why are these things so important ? Let’s start with anna because, er it is so hard to keep everyone within a non-profit hyre working towards the same goal instead of looking at all of their different measurement. Um, so having a way to agree on what success really looks like can actually end up making you be more successful in the end, because then you’re all working towards the same goals. Okay, so the part of this topic is organizational buy-in or we’ll not organic. Yes, whatever happens, you fire of you defined focus, a bunch of people, a bunch of people need to agree, so called that buy-in okay. And i also see another part of this is data overload. I mean there’s, just so much available, right. We need to focus on brenna on what’s what’s, the most important stuff. Exactly. Yeah, and the main thing, you have them clearing up the misnomer that not all kept metrics are kp eyes, right ? So everybody does have to agree. On what what are we trying to track ? Why are we tracking it ? How does that help us meet our strategic objectives and our end goals, right. So once you have the buy-in on all those goals, then you’re able to dig down deeper and develop. What are those specific metrics that will help us meet these kp eyes that we can then measure against those strategic objectives to ensure that we do have success and that we are tracking over time ? Okay, okay, very good, that’s, great, overviewing, thank you. Alright, so. Well, should we should we start with our so we started our organizational goals. Yes, because that’s what ? We’re measuring against that, you’re just saying that. So now we got to get okay. So this all obviously should flow from our mission. I’m gonna go back to that. That that that fourteen year old voice, that really reason that we exist our mission statement. Okay, from that, we have gold now. Now. Okay, i’m gonna assume that everybody buys into the mission. Otherwise they wouldn’t be working there. Hopefully. But now now way. Get to the goal stage people could start falling out. That’s where the disagree it’s not too far from mission to gold, but we could start losing people. What do we do ? Go ahead, runner. Yeah, i’m gonna start so we we like to focus it on the building. Kind of smart goals, right ? So what do we need to do ? Departmental e department by department to help us achieve our mission on dh. Really phoning it in tow ? Really ? No. More than two. Three. And i went up to five in our session. I was like, oh, but, you know, two, three things that we all can agree on as a group that these are priorities. These are important goals. And, yes, there’s. Other things that are important. But if we let ourselves go down the rabbit hole of just saying, listing everything that’s important now, things no longer important, which is what you’re starting with you yours, referring to earlier with the data overload and it’s, especially. Eazy, because digital metrics can be so different than offline metric to instead have the i’m actually moving it away a little bit, okay, okay don’t worry, it can actually be easy. Tohave the metric create new divisions within just the development department divisions that didn’t even exist before, but it’s sustainers causing problems in solving so a cz longest. You’re looking at twenty things in google analytics and through the facebook manager over here, and then a completely different set of metrics for direct male you’re not even working towards the same goals within the development department. So that’s part of why so important to start at the goal side of things rather than at the measurement side of things, so that the measurements always air serving the goals supporting those goals, right ? Okay, i imagine we need top down by this has got to come from leadership. That’s the goal agreement we still go agreement it’s got to be driven from above and and accepted. Yes, it doesn’t necessarily have to be driven from above but don’t really actually, i was you know, as i was saying, i think it could be bottom up it can be, but but but the leadership has to be on a great okay. Okay, for sure. All right. Uh, all right. So we agree on our goals. Now, now we’re moving to our kp eyes. How are we going to how do we know what that’s measurable belongs at the top within within these goals ? Yeah, that we’ve all agreed on. Well, and even before you get teo, what are the kp eyes ? We need to develop strategic objectives for each goal, okay ? Because the girls tend to be a little bit umbrella there. Vega. Right way. Operation. Exactly like we use greenpeace. One of our clients in our session today partnered with us, and one of their goals is defending democracy. Okay, well, that’s big right and an existential and long and yeah, eso then we developed strategic objectives that will help them measure against whether or not they’re being successful in duvette defending democracy it’s time for a break pursuant there. E book is fast non-profit growth stealing from the start ups. They take the secrets from the fastest growing startups and apply those methods and practices to your non-profit it’s free as you’re accustomed to all the pursuant resources. Are and it’s on the listener landing page ? No surprise, tony dahna may slash pursuing capital p for please and pursuing i guess now back to kp eyes from the non-profit technology conference. So what are you ? What are some of them that they chose so way ? Work through those greenpeace ? How come that on right now is accident or not at this table ? Alright, now they’re long sorry, it’s not proper radio your life. I know, i know, but we worked through them from the department perspective. So what would it mean for the fund-raising department to be supporting the organization goal of defend democracy ? So it is easy for fundraisers to think that their job is always the same. It is always just raise money, raise lots of money and then we’re done. But there actually is more nuanced than that if we’re trying to defend democracy. Well, sadly, that isn’t something that we’re just doing today or for the next month. That’s actually a long term project and certainly at least through the trump presidency. And and, you know, given how greenpeace defines this goal of actually reducing the amount of money in politics, i mean that’s going to take sometime. So that means whatever funding that fund-raising is supplying has to be sustainable and it’s the net that matters, not just the growth tomorrow. Okay, so that means now we’ve clarified the objective in the fund-raising department. So that’s, the next stage come up with the mission statement for the organization ? We’ve turned that into a number of goals for the organization, the big dream things defend democracy, stop global warming, all of these huge concepts and then we’ve broken them down for how does my department contribute to that ? And on lee, once you’ve done that, can you decide ? What am i going to measure what’s actually being, what do i need to measure ? Ok, right. So the object’s strategic objective is growth in sustainable net revenue. We’ll both sustainable and net are two measurable things. So then you can build your kp eyes off of those keywords on dh actually, decide on what are the metrics that we have to check ? How do we agree on collecting that data so that everything has a flat, measured baseline that we can then benchmark ourselves against what periodically so that we’re checking in on that growth ? Side of the goal and when we’re at this stage, is this just our department ? That’s that’s really making these decisions ? Okay, so we’re not we’re not at the higher levels anymore. It’s not necessary, correct is where the department level, but we’re going to build back-up so we’ve gone down to the department level to figure out that’s, so i mean, you’re using your expertise, so you want your fundraisers figuring out how fund-raising can best support the fund-raising goal, right ? You don’t i don’t want a cfo deciding that, but in the end, the cfo has two buy-in on it, all of leadership does have two buy-in so once the various organizations have figure out out their objectives and their kp eyes, then you have to come back up a level and talk across departments and see how these objective support each other and possibly adjust them is where we ended up with our greenpeace example is actually making slight objectives when the marketing department and the fund-raising department saw the amount of overlap between their objectives and the tactics in specific that they were planning in order to get there, so that sounds like an ah ha! Moment, way. Have a lot more in common than we realized. A cross marketing and fund-raising. Exactly. Yeah, okay, okay. Okay, dahna, but let me ask you where should we go next with this ? Where do we go next with discussion ? You talk good. Well, i was just gonna say i think, you know, we used marketing and fund-raising as the example here because obviously, the ntc audiences, a lot of marketers and fundraisers, but the same structure and the same necessity for kp eyes it’s in all departments, right ? Whether it’s, your program, people who are actually implementing the services or whether it’s your public relations or media relations outreach people like all of these departments have to go through the same process on. And i think there will be a lot of those. Ah ha. Moments for organizations who are used to working in silos when they start thinking about the goals. Right ? Actually being achievable of strategic objectives that can be measured to get back against the mission on dh over there. Okay, uh, what about digital digital fund-raising kp eyes ? You talked some about that ? Yeah. Okay, let’s. Shut out. You want to start anna s. So there are a lot of questions about digital fund-raising kp eyes because people immediately go to the measurements available. In google analytics, and which one of these should i use as if the answer is the same for everyone ? So this just, you know, as if conversion rate on your petitions should be asserted number for every single organization and that’s what defines success ? Because we can show you how to set that up in google analytics, so that came up in our session, and it was a another reminder to folks to go back to the beginning, decide on your goals. Yeah, i think i feel like a lot of ways it’s, like the ultimate consultant answer is it depends right ? Because everything is it is individualized. If you’re not taking the time to audit yourselves and personalize and get that organizational buy-in and that organizational priority list, then they don’t really matter than they aren’t kp eyes, they’re just metrics, whether they’re showing growth or loss or what they’re just vanity numbers at that point because they have no tie to the strategic objectives in the mission of the organization. We had one question in the session, which was great, and it was about supporter scoring and i think that’s mental really hot topic in the digital. Space border scoring ? Yeah, i don’t know what that is. Okay, so when the ads taking basically qualitative, um, pieces of information, whether that behavioral traits or demographic things on dh scoring it, putting a quantitative wait to that to then build a model to show you these are my best people, my top ten deaths ill or my latto bottom ten on dh, then also using it to find lookalike audiences and things like that out in the world. So you want you’re doing this for different constituencies like donors, volunteers, exactly, event attendees, service beneficiaries, okay, different constituencies. And the problem is exactly the same problem that folks have with models in the direct marketing space is that for non-technical users, they hear model, and they’re like, oh, it obviously adjust to my program. It’s must have something to do with artificial intelligence. I hear all these things are great, these people are scored at the top, therefore they’re the best for me, and then they’re surprised when the results don’t match that. But any model has to be based on what your actual goals are, so if you’re using a response rate, a response based model and your goal is actually to increase high dollar donors. That model is not going to serve you. The people with the top score in that model are not necessarily going to be the high dollar donors. And so it was the same thing with the supporter scoring thie. It was a very good question, but it again starts from the data side of things rather than the gold side of things. We have all of this data. We have thes scores saying these supporters are our best ones. We should contact them every chance that we get our screening. Fill those right back. Yes, when i think a lot of it stemmed for for that, for a lot of people in for him in particular, asking the question that like which which one should i buy ? Right which model is best ? Which scoring which software should i purchase that you actually have to do the internal look looking in to find out what’s important to you before you decide what direction on demand that of the vendors ? Because it’s true, that all of these models can be adjusted when you are able to communicate what is actually valuable to your organization. Otherwise, you’re going to screen it. You mean screening ? Yeah. Yeah. That’s not commonly known. Now, i think i think most most orders say they just take the algorithms. Yeah, they’re provided the show. Andi. Everybody gets the same. Same right ? Yeah. Yeah, that that’s not leveraging that to its utmost. Yeah. That’s. A very good that’s. A very important point. I think people are just taking it and they figure well, there there’s a half a dozen vendors. So there are each have different a proprietary algorithm way. Have to pick one, right ? Not so. And not so you can. You can negotiate. Oh, yeah. I got a chorus thing just like the k p i s started you off area that’s. Two songs together. Ask for what you need and it doesn’t matter what how big the screening of doesn’t matter whether martin lundy or blackbaud or know it it is it is going to affect of the pricing, but asking the question it does not affect the pricing. So always asked the question of these air the things that are important to us. What would that mean for the price that you would offer on the model that you built that incorporates these things that are important to us. So find that out from a few different vendors when i was a good partner vendor is going to ask those questions of you the best ones will write they don’t know because they do try and have everybody tries to have an off the shelf product that’s going to be successful for the majority of users, but really the ones that are caring about donor-centric communication and really carrying about long term relationships with the non-profit that they partner with should be asking those questions because it is about building that custom model based on the weights and measures that are important to each of the organization and each individual program or department in the organization. Okay, in my experience, that’s it’s not surely aspirations on night. I’m an optimist. Yeah, there’s optimism and then there’s today i think you know that saying, you know, you know, but i just haven’t experienced it. I know i’m working planned e-giving fund-raising so i’m not, you know, i don’t have all the conversations with potential screening vendors, but i just have never heard this that you can negotiate. On tweaking tweaking of the yeah, i’ve never heard that i’ve always you know, i say whether it’s your own professional development like negotiating raises or what but if you don’t ask, you get everything is negotiable. Everything’s negotiable think lorts in london was negotiable. And speaking of an analyst there’s nothing that i like better than being told exactly what your goals are so that i can build something that it’s really going to be successful, right ? Yeah, that’s the battle them to anna and say, show me these numbers, right ? I come to and i say, i’m trying to figure out this about this co owners this i’m trying to figure out the answer to this question, and then she comes back to me with the metrics that solve for x better than actually just telling me ac okay, yeah, well, we still have ah, good number of minutes together left. What ? What else ? Maybe other questions that got asked or other things that came out of your that were in your session that we haven’t talked about yet ? What else is there ? Well, one question that i got wass what software solves this ? I’m paraphrasing, but basically it was what what do i buy that will make this ? Um but thiss kp i process ? Yeah, are there ? Are there tech solutions way ? Haven’t talked about that at all ? No, i don’t think everybody just wants that easy answer, right ? Nobody likes introspection, and there are tons and tons of software programs that can display your kp eyes, so if you’re looking for a data visualization, a solution that board a dashboard product there’s tons and tons of thumb out there and what i told this person was that if your issue is that you don’t have the staff, teo, learn new software and you don’t have the budget to buy something that isn’t going to solve all of your problems. Then don’t buy anything, put your kp ice and excel, but, um, in a word, doc, if you have and it really is the process and the conversations and having thie organization wide agreement that makes this powerful not you know all, i’ll create some great visualization for you, but i can create plenty of great visualizations using meaningless data. Some some some of this discussion reminds me of ah, strategic planning discussion still mean you’re getting organizational buy-in we’re all agreeing on common goals and the measures toward those goals. I mean, those goals inform the future direction of the of the organization. So there’s overlap between this and a strategic planning process. Yeah ? Oh, definitely. Yeah, and that was a big part of it. The draw. When ana came up with the session idea, i thought it would be she roped you in ? Well, no, i basically solicited her. But then she came up with the idea because ntcdinosaur like solo. So i mean, i don’t know, but i’m the one that speaks of these things all the time. And i was like, anna, your turn. But it was her idea. The session was great and i just fell in love with it because it’s not just about numbers, right and that’s what people think that’s always important question. Exactly agreement. It really is about the change. Even change management, strategic planning like all of you respect exactly. And that’s, i think is. So is it lost on a lot of people, especially at non-profits ? Where everybody’s wearing ? A lot of hats, everybody is doing multiple jobs and just trying to get the next thing done on the list that this really forces you. If you want to do a right to take a step back and think about how your day to day activities impact the mission, impact the strategic objectives and on go from there and i think that’s, i think that’s really refreshing for people to do just in general, whether you’re developing kp eyes or not, because it does make you think about why we do what we dio and people who work in non-profits as well as those who partner like us, who partner with them, we do this because we love right now work the outcomes of the mission that zit and we all get so tied up in the weeds of the day today that we forget about the mission and how amazing the organizations that we work with. Our and people have a very hard time because they’re wearing a million hats, hats, and they have way too much on their plate. They just need to get that next e mail out so that they have a very hard time. Deciding okay, today i’m going to stop and actually go through this k p i building process, but i would urged people to try it because, uh, wait, we have a couple minutes left, and i think we talked a lot about motivation. Hyre logistically, how do you take this on you ? We meet once a week, tio i mean, he’s, a big topic you can’t you can’t do this in a in a week now, but you meet once a week, over months or a couple days over every other. How did you do this ? Logistically, i would suggest tacking it onto the front of your annual budgeting process, so work back off from when you’re budgets are due to the board, and then when their due to your department lead and due to leadership, and then give yourself a minimum of a month, but ideally two months so it’s, like not unusual for to be a six month process from the time of the department objective and kp i development to the time that the budget is actually finalized and signed off on by the board. Okay, excellent, helpful and that forces you to revisit on at least. On an annual basis, right, because you’re reevaluating before that next expenditure budget is good into place annually now, okay, okay, yeah, we have, like a minute and a half left. I wantto make sure this fits just right. So where ? Who wants to leave ? Leave us with closing thoughts. You know what else to say ? Okay. I wish i had something easy. Tio. You’ve seen this working clients, right using transformation and clients in the process can work. Yeah, stamina. Devote your vote attention to it. And i have seen it make those data day tasks easier, because then you have fewer interruptions from other departments or from leadership trying to push you in a million different directions. Dahna. Okay, it’s. A really good point. That’s. A good place. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. Love are well done. Wonderful. Okay, thanks. They are on a road. Deputy director of analytics chapman, cubine and husi. And also brenholz vice president of digital at c c h. The interview is sponsored by network for good. Easy to use donorsearch and fund-raising software for non-profits. Thank you so much for being with tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of eighteen ntc. We need to take a break. Wagner, cps. Do you need help with accounting or your nine ninety ? Are you thinking about a change of accountants in this ? Ah, next in the next cycle for yourself. Check out weinger cpas. Dot com. You start your due diligence there, of course. And then talk to them. The partner ? Yeah. Huge tomb. You know, he’s been on the show. He’s a good guy. I trust him weinger cpas dot com the place to start now. Time for tony steak too. Do i say thank you too often ? If i do, please let me know, but i’m saying it now. I am grateful that we have the support we have now over thirteen thousand listeners, whether you are listening, live podcast or affiliate thank you if you’re following along on twitter. If you’ve, uh you’re following what we call it on youtube is just following subscribing if you subscribed on youtube twitter, youtube i thank you facebook, facebook, facebook fans! It doesn’t mean much anymore. It seems to have very much faded into sort of triviality. I remember the days we used to say like us on facebook. Facebook dot com slash twenty monday now provoc radio those were the dark days, but i’m grateful that’s it. Thank you. However you’re with us. Thank you very much. It’s. My pleasure to welcome back amy sample ward. You know her for god’s sake, she’s, our social media contributor in the ceo of and ten the non-profit technology network where we just heard a segment from for the last conference her most recent co authored book is social change anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement she’s that amy sample war dot or ge and at amy rs ward welcome back, amy simple word hi. Thank you for having me back. It’s always a pleasure. I am. I’m always waiting for the day when i just stopped getting invitations. Yeah, it’ll happen that way too. I won’t officially tell you. I’ll just stop course. Just slowly stop scheduling me and i will know it. It’s over. Yeah, i won’t even be slow. It’ll be abrupt. It’ll just have the thing. And then six months later, you’ll think about well, hopefully is not that long. Couple months later think packed. Jeez, tony hasn’t been in touch with me for, well, that’s the way it’ll happen. Um, okay, so we’re talking about fund-raising fund-raising underage. What ? Yeah. What ? Uh, put this on your radar. Well, you know, i don’t think it’s necessarily new. I think it is. Has old as the world of fund-raising, you know, centuries and centuries old. But it has been something that here and in ten. As as staff, we’ve been talking about a lot, especially in the last two year political climate on dh it’s the way that i would define thunder aging is you can think of it a bit a bit like peer-to-peer where it’s individuals it’s not necessarily on organization or staff members, people out in the community fund-raising and it’s, the fund-raising that happens or the campaigns that happen in response to things in the news, you folks in a specific geographic community care that something is being proposed or moving forward ? That’s going tio threatened a way that they live their life or the way that the organizations they support are able to do their work, and in response to that kind of anger, that rage, they want to feel like they’re doing something, and it doesn’t feel like there’s really anything that’s in their power to do in-kind of that complex world we live in of policymakers and government officials and all the way down to us citizens. And so they start a fund raising campaign to benefit those organizations that they support that they see as the ones who are in a position to try and make a change or support people experiencing whatever situation is happening. So it’s really driven by individuals reacting to the news, you know, whatever that news, maybe not saying that this is something that only happens in one kind of view or political party, but as as a country, i think we see these examples of fund-raising jane becoming more and more visible, bigger impact on dh more, yeah, so not new, but certainly amped up under thinks the twenty sixteen election and since donald trump is president certainly amped up on really throughout the country, but, you know, i even has they say both sides because i’m trying to get away from us being a polarized nation, but across all across all political spectrums amped up yeah, okay, okay, yeah, you know, there’s a there’s, a there’s, a sense that, right ? You know, it it comes from a sense of sort of incapacity, you know ? Yeah, i think it really is that powerlessness that i think a lot of communities feel where, where the ability to make policy or protect existing policy or change processes doesn’t feel like something they are ever a part of, and yet they’re impacted by the results of those changes and that powerlessness, i think, is part of that rage, right ? How could this happen ? But also, how could this happen and not include me when i am a person that is a part of this, and so a kind of counterbalance that there’s this feeling of ? Well, if there’s on top of us, you know that all donate five players surely will be able to pull those funds, you know, into this organization or into this movement that can’t help that a lot of this i think, comes from or is is related to what you and i talked about in august over marketing, you know, if if there’s if there’s an over marketing problem in the non-profit community, if we’re constantly at eleven on a scale of zero to ten, then you know where, where were guilty of amping up the amping up the rhetoric, right on dh, the passions and the anger and the outrage for sure, and, you know, we don’t have to go down that path, but i think fund-raising when done successfully and by successfully to meet a part of that means in conjunction with an existing organisation and you know kind of ah request or past that makes sense for them to move forward with when that happens. It’s, because organizations are not over marketing, right ? They are very clear there, very consistent. They are providing information that helped synthesize the news, the changes, the policies, whatever it is and demonstrates really clearly that they are part of the fight or the solution or the alternative path. And that way it’s clear for supporters again. You know, these aren’t necessarily campaigns driven by the organization’s. These air campaigns driven by community members who just are so fed up they want to do something. And so when organizations can be very clear and communication be very consistent about the the things they respond to in the news or the issues that they are going to speak about, it positions community members to know oh, my gosh, i’m so upset. You know, i heard this thing on the news, but i know this organization i support, i trust them. I know exactly what they do. I know exactly how they’re part of a solution that i want to see. I feel comfortable and confident starting to fund raise for them because i know where they stand, i know what they do, and i’m able to even borrow that language, you know, for my facebook poster for my, you know, fund-raising page and in a home run by the organization, they’ve given me the tools and resources to help me create a campaign, you know ? So exactly we’ll get to that because, you know, you want to have ideally you want to have these things in place so that the community is empowered. Exactly, yeah, do you because you want to benefit from this, you know, if your community is upset, there’s there’s a potential benefit for you if you’re working in that space ? Exactly. Do you have a sense of what ? What helps make thes campaigns more successful ? O or not ? Yeah, i mean, i think that like anything there’s going to be those examples that are true out liars on dh, you know, feel like magical unicorn rainbow fundraisers that happened, and we’re not necessarily trying to replicate those, but the things that you can do is an organization beyond what we were just talking about being really clear and consistent on the issues that you talk about, that you respond to in the news demonstrating and communicated kating, how you address those things do all of that, but also i think if you think about this as a peer-to-peer campaign that you’re just not launching, you want to go through some of the same steps, you want to make sure that as an organization you can take donations electronically, that you, you know, have that kind of donation button set up on your website, but also that your, you know, maybe registered on various other peer-to-peer donation platforms so that if people wanted to create a campaign for you, you’re in the system and they can, you know, attach to your profile and have the funds go to u s o that’s one kind of administrative step to take and then on a planning communication side of things, you want to make sure that you’ve done again some of those same peer-to-peer best practices, you’ve got some tool kits that are really easy to find on your website, really easy to follow that say, if you’re going fund-raising for and then you know, whatever your organisation’s name is, here are the things that we know are successful here’s what ? Our logo file is that people aren’t just making a version of your logo that’s not right here’s, you know our mission statement here’s what we’re doing on these kind of top five issues, whatever you think may end up being the things that kind of rage people into fund-raising for you, so you already have sametz tab lish talking points out there, so put some of those tool kits together on dh. I also think that it’s important to keep in that you know it doesn’t have to be a pdf. It could be a page on your website that is, quote unquote the tool kit. It could be a google dog, it could be whatever, but make sure it’s up to date and you’re including things that are even even for people who want to want to fund rage but don’t want to create a whole page for you somewhere or don’t want it to be a long term thing, but they’re kind of really easy to copy paste messages that point back to your donation form so even if they don’t have the capacity or or maybe skills and knowledge to set up a fundraising page for you, they could copy paste that facebook comment that says, you know, i support and ten this is what they’re doing on this issue here’s the donate link so that you can even get those folks, or maybe it’s the lighter end of the spectrum. We gotta take a break tell us you’ve heard from charities that referred companies for credit card processing, and they’re getting the revenue each month you’ve heard from the companies using tello’s for their credit card processing now can use more revenue that long stream of passive revenue that comes from the fees that tello’s urns from the companies you refer. Start with the video at tony dot m a slash tony tello’s. Now, let’s, go back to amy sample ward. You ticked off a whole bunch of things there, andi, you didn’t have to go, but you were concise, you know, like you’re reading the outline for your next book for this chapter, fund-raising because, you know, i think that it’s important to keep in mind as like an idea about all of this is that this may be different from how organizations may think about other fund-raising campaign is that often really successful ? Fund-raising campaigns community led fund-raising campaigns the organization’s air in the background, but that doesn’t mean the organizations were not actively a part of that campaign being successful, so you don’t have to be the star because you’re going to be the start that’s all the talking points or about how you are going to do this change and that’s why people air are fund-raising you don’t need to be the voice that’s saying all of that so don’t feel like once somebody starts, you’re goingto kind of publicly jump on that and and you’re helping them by being really public about it. That’s actually, what you can do to help them is to be in the background reach out to them, send them an email if you know who they are, you know, send them a phone call and say, what do you need ? Do you need more messages ? We have staff to do that, you know, do you need images ? We can give you some images, help them and give them the fuel to make their campaign strong and don’t feel like you need to step out in front of it. I mean, you want to provide the infrastructure and an ongoing support, but but i think we actually counterproductive if you stepped in and started dahna messaging within their peer-to-peer campaigns, right o for sure we’re going the merciful st makes people feel like, do you even really care about this ? Are you just doing itcause ? This organization had you right ? I’m injecting, it loses that, yeah, you lose the first piela the pier is now the non-profit non-profit to the person’s peers who are not their peers, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s too long a string to abbreviate you can no longer abbreviated ptp. So exactly and i think what’s important to remember to is that the path you think might be most obvious or even easiest may not be the past for them and that’s ok, if they want to really focus on email because that’s who they are and they, you know, send lots of e mails every day and that’s where they know people will open their e mail and read it don’t tell them they need to be tweeting, you know, don’t tell them they need to post on facebook whatever channel somebody’s most comfortable with let them go through that channel. And say, you know, instead of giving you really easy to use tweets, we will write, you know, paragraph chunks for you to use that are compelling that have links to resource is whatever it is that’s going to help them in their outreach on dh you just have to be flexible tete that. Yeah, again, it’s you know, it’s it’s offering support. I mean, the first p knows where the second piece all right, where they hang out. You know, they know my friends. I know my peers put it in the pdp what’s a good word. I was structure, but lexicon samson in the lexicon, you know ? So i know where my penis will like these hangout, so don’t don’t tell me what i gotta do. Of course not. You’re interfering and yeah, yeah, no, i’m great. Yeah, but peace that’s interesting. And i would love to put you on the spot in here. Your thoughts to tony is is the way that these kinds of campaigns justice we’re talking about really centering the people who are fund-raising and not the organisation. How that means they are different in the way that you recognize those donors and supporters. The way that you recognize the work of that campaign on the way that you take credit for those funds, i think there’s a lot of nuance in that give in the way that these campaigns often start the reasoned that people give to them versus give teo you as an organization. Right ? I think it’s important to remember people are giving to that campaign to that rage and not necessarily to you as an organization, even though they are giving he was an organization, right ? So how does that, you know, maybe require, as an organization, you have different practices for the way you recognize and think those donors and those supporters that maybe you do when you run other campaigns yourself ? Yeah, i don’t take well to being asked questions on my own show on your own. Show it sze tony martignetti non-profit radio way. You just made my voice crack. I’m so upset. I know i would say you i would say you need to defer to the to the first p the person who ran the campaign for you, i guess first. Are they willing to share contact info toe let you directly. Thank the donors. To the campaign, maybe one. That all depends. Where did those donations go ? Over there, where the donations happening on a platform where, you know the contact information with saves captured, renamed not you know, i think there’s a lot of kind of technical russians in there too. Okay ? But even if i did capture it on my e-giving form online, i still would ask the the person that person’s permission because they know their peers better, you know, then, you know, how would you feel ? Would you mind if we, uh, could we thank them ? Wei have the info, but we’re not going to use it unless you, you know, let us say something or could re send a message from you to them and, you know, maybe the two of us, right, send a combined thank you message. Maybe our ceo signs it and you sign it, you know ? So what i want that’s a really great idea for for some instances, because you’re then maintaining the same relationship you had during the campaign where your job is an organization was to give them what they needed. And now you’re reinforcing their leadership in the community by saying we’re going toe thank you. And if you would like to, you can pass on our message of things to your, you know, to the donors, but you’re kind of still putting them in the position as the leader instead of the organization. Yeah, yeah, they’re they’re in the lead. I mean, there, there. Yes. It’s there it’s there community that they were fund-raising from so, um, yeah, you wantto elevate them ? Absolutely, uh, that’s, my son and i think it’s also important. I mean, when we think about this, any kind of fund-raising campaign as list building and what that means for future cultivation, whether more donations, bigger donations or other actions, you know, kind of other ladders of engagement. I think there are a lot of instances in fund-raising jean situations where the people who feel kind of fired-up and are supporting that effort are doing it in the way that’s not visible to the organization, at least from a like database perspective, you know, they’re not signing up on the organization’s website. They’re not donating to the organization through a donation form that the organization has access to, so they’re not coming on to the list, but these are people who are fired-up and finding ways against through those leaders who are kind of calling their community action, too continue giving them more news, continue giving them updates even after the maybe donation phase of it is over, but not lose contact with those people and continue to go back to them to say, hey, you know, we got a million dollars, which is not unheard of in some recent examples of fund-raising, you know, we got a million dollars in a week it’s been a month here, the eighteen long years that we’ve hired, we just wanted to let you know, you know, or here’s work that’s happening because of this so that they continue to be in a place where there almost spokespeople for for that action now, and they are saying, hey, i just got this word from the organization, this has been the impact of what we did, and, you know, they get to be the ones sharing that news because you don’t have a way to connect with other people, so at least make sure you don’t lose contact with those that you d’oh, we got to take a ah last break. Text to give, you’ll get more revenue because they make e-giving easy for your donors. If your donor’s consent a text, they could make a donation. We’re talking about that right now, it’s, part of your infrastructure, it’s simple, affordable, secure plus the ceo chadband oid very smart guy he spent set up a smart company um, it’s easy to get the info text npr for non-profit radio to four, four four nine nine nine npr to four, four, four, nine nine nine we’ve got several more minutes for fund-raising well, i’m very glad of within the sample ward would it was one thing i wanted to bring up is a question that has been brought up here at staff when we’re having conversations about this world of fund-raising jane and that is that you can’t anticipate when it’s gonna happen because of the news of the death everyday tension between, you know, you don’t really know what’s gonna happen in the world every day in advance. And what does that mean, given that it’s september right now, when people are probably have already done or at least starting to do now their end of year campaign planning ? So what ? Does it mean if you were, you know, done months of planning all this work ? You’ve launched your end of your campaign ? It’s ? You know, november, december, you’re running this end of your campaign. Something happens in the news. It’s that moment, you know, it’s okay, at least in my opinion, open tio what you may think, tony, but, you know, it’s okay to me, if that means your end of your campaign comes in way under goal and you stop tweeting about it because it may be more important to focus on this other angle where your community is fired-up in a different way, then continuing to almost compete with your community’s interests on, and i think that can be hard in the moment to say, oh, my gosh, we did all this work. We have all these goals and expectations are bored, you know, wants to do x y and z, and now we’re not gonna send this, you know, email out or something, but depending on, of course, you’re going to have to gauge what the community’s responses and all of that. But it may mean that you do let go of that end of your campaign. And that has to be okay. Maybe there’s a way to combine the two so that you know, so yeah. I mean, i definitely think it matters what the universe is, what the community is trying to campaign around. I think you could definitely, especially for your organization willing to do it. I have it in real time and make that end of your campaign talking points aligned with the communities, talking points, you know, if it’s not a huge departure from what you needed, what you needed to say anyway, that’s yeah, i agree. I mean, i would i would try toe message it so that you can you can take advantage of the the outrage. And and as you’re saying, you know, message it into your end of year, you know, it’s that it’s a tough one, because, i mean, i know a lot of listeners have small organizations with, like, one, two, three, staff people and, you know, end of year is like, you know, way may not make payroll if if we don’t do a certain amount in the in the fourth quarter or a lot, a lot of times, you know, like the month of december um, so it’s it’s hard, you know, you gotta yeah, i don’t think that you know, on the first tweet from a community member, you know, manage, stan, you’re not doing now, you’re doing it lightly, but i’m just, you know, i’m trying to balance the i’m trying to balance, you know, what’s not competing with your community, what your communities anger is and what they’re talking about. Versace, versace, you’re own your own messaging for the biggest campaign of your year. Um, i’m trying out for a lot of organizations that have a diverse fund-raising kind of palate with maybe online fund-raising and end of your fund-raising and major gift that it is just filters into maybe how you balance or prioritize amongst that grid, like maybe you say, okay, well, our online fund-raising focus will be supporting these community members who are tryingto lead some campaigns and, you know, are offline is just going to focus on our major donors, and they it might be an opportunity that they feel more compelled because now they see other people, you know, are coming coming to support the same organization that may be a lower financial level, but it still means something, so i think it’s really, about how it plays into the mix. Dahna yeah, yeah, i agree. I’m just considering the balance on a zai know how critical certain campaigns, whether it’s fourth quarter or not, you can be teo teo, people in to those organizations that are small, like i said, you know, one, two, three before employees, you know, i worry about making payroll and making, making rent payments that can that can keep you up at night, you know, you know, um, okay, we still got a couple minutes left. About two minutes or so left before we let you go. What else ? What else should we be talking about for two minutes ? Well, you know, i would be curious outside of on ly fund raging the ways that organizations are also using the news for, i don’t know howto turn raging into the end of other words, but, you know, these air really important moments for organizations for what we were talking about before, with this building and ad ad advil raging, i really committed to making raging part of the word, but, you know, finding ways where probably a little bit more on the fly, which is always hard for organizations, whether they’re bigger, small but finding ways to say, ok, this thing was said, here’s, how we feel about it, you know, do you stand with us something that doesn’t have to have any material outcome from it ? You’re now not, you know, producing an event or launching a program because you’ve said something but ways to get your community feeling like oppcoll they are with you, they know where you stand, you are getting that information back from them to be able to maybe segment your list really dynamically to say, wow, all of these people responded to this news item this day and, you know, these people didn’t that’s another wayto plan for cultivation later. So i think even if your community isn’t necessarily starting fund-raising campaigns for you or you’re not starting fund-raising campaigns in response to the news, you can still be using things that happen, whether they’re local or regional, are at a federal level, help you get more information about who your supporters are, what they care about, how they, how they came to sign up for you so that you can again better reach out to them. But think about your list before you start sending out fund-raising messages later. Yeah, it’s, not it’s, not all about fund-raising wait, we’re gonna leave it there and you say the word you’ll find her at amy rs ward and just follow her for god’s sake. You see all this wisdom ? Get it on twitter at amy or it’s war and also amy sample word dot org’s. Thank you so much, amy. Thanks, tony, my publisher. Next week, jean takagi returns with his take on donor advised funds if you missed any part. Of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dahna slash pursuant capital p when you see piela is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com by telus, credit card and payment processing, your passive revenue stream, tony dahna slash tony tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text npr too for for for nine, nine, nine. Our creative producers claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. 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