Tag Archives: fundraising for introverts harnessing our powers for what matters

Nonprofit Radio for October 2, 2023: Fundraising For Introverts


Brian SaberFundraising For Introverts

That’s the title of Brian Saber’s new book. He returns with uplifting news for those who prefer quiet time over party time: You can be a great fundraiser! Brian knows. He’s been a successful introverted fundraiser for nearly 40 years. He’s also president of Asking Matters.


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[00:00:47.44] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti Nonprofit radio. Big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of and the pod father almost forgot that of your favorite heb doin podcast. I can’t quite bring the usual energy today. I will explain in Tony’s take two. Nonetheless, I’m glad you’re with us. I’d be stricken with depopulation if I had to speak the words you missed this week’s show. Here’s our associate producer, Kate with What’s up this week?

[00:01:54.37] spk_1:
Hey, tony, it’s fundraising for Introverts. That’s the title of Brian Saber’s new book. He returns with uplifting news for those who prefer quiet time over party time. You can be a great fundraiser. Brian knows he’s been a successful introverted fundraiser for nearly 40 years. He’s also president of asking matters on Tony’s take too. Got the COVID we sponsored by donor Boxx, outdated donation forms blocking your supporters, generosity, donor box fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit donor Boxx dot org and buy Kila grow revenue, engage donors and increase efficiency with Kila. The fundraisers, CRM visit Kila dot co to join the thousands of fundraisers using Kila to exceed their goals here is fundraising for introverts.

[00:02:30.82] spk_0:
It’s a genuine pleasure to welcome back, Brian Saber to nonprofit radio. He is President of Asking Matters and author of the brand new book. Fundraising for Introverts Harnessing our powers for what matters. Brian has nearly 40 years of professional experience as a frontline fundraiser, soliciting major capital and planned gifts. The company is at asking mats dot com. Brian and Brian’s book are at fundraising for introverts dot com. Welcome back, Brian. It’s a pleasure to see you.

[00:02:44.99] spk_2:
I am delighted to be back, tony.

[00:02:48.16] spk_0:
Welcome from Palm Springs, California where you are just recently located to from New

[00:02:55.15] spk_2:
Jersey. From New Jersey. Yes. Uh, I have made this my base. Yes, it’s very hot in September here. Uh, but it is beautiful and, uh, I guess it’s one step towards retirement. Who knows

[00:03:14.68] spk_0:
Palm Springs, California is a very different culture than, uh, no Jersey.

[00:03:16.20] spk_2:
It is. Everyone says hello and I don’t wanna say New Jersey, its aren’t friendly or New Yorkers aren’t friendly.

[00:03:25.58] spk_0:
We don’t, we don’t have time. We’re in, we got somewhere to be. There’s too many. I, I can even in small town, New Jersey, I mean, you might get a smile, you might in a small

[00:03:41.53] spk_2:
town here, many people have no place to be a lot of retirees. The pa is slower and it’s sort of

[00:03:43.19] spk_0:
nice. All right, you’re bringing down the average age then

[00:03:46.53] spk_2:
I have, you know, I went from feeling like the oldest person in Jersey City. I might have been the oldest person in my building by 20 years to feeling like, uh, younger than spring time and Palm Springs.

[00:04:25.41] spk_0:
Right. I, I think I better also disclose that Brian and I are both on drugs. Me for my COVID, he had some surgery very recently. So, let’s see what unfolds. Let’s make sure I can keep straight the difference between intuitive and introverts. That’s the first thing since the book is about introverts, we wanna make sure we keep things straight that way. Um, I saw you just, you, um, you were just on Jay Frost Mastermind series

[00:04:31.38] spk_2:
actually, that is this afternoon.

[00:04:41.86] spk_0:
Oh, it’s coming up. Oh, it has. Oh, well, I don’t like being the warm up for Jay Frost at Hack. I wouldn’t, uh, II, I was, I, I was gonna say that he was the warm up for me. Now, I’m the opening act for Jay

[00:04:50.75] spk_2:
Frost. Well, actually, by the time this, this airs Jay’s will have happened. So he will be your warm up act, in fact. Oh, good. Oh, ok,

[00:05:10.20] spk_0:
good. All right. Then we can proceed because otherwise we’re, we’re gonna do this at six o’clock Eastern, uh, at, at three o’clock your time because I’m not warming up for Jay Frost Hack. All right. So let’s, let’s, let’s get some terms. Uh, introvert. We’re celebrating introverts. We’re celebrating introverts, right? You’re an in, you’re a proud introvert. Welcome. Proud introvert.

[00:05:38.51] spk_2:
Thank you. Yes, I am a proud introvert and it took a long time to become a proud introvert for most of my life. I thought it was something I had to compensate for something that would hold me back, something to hide. Something that makes me less of a fundraiser than others.

[00:05:44.45] spk_0:
Your own mom, Elaine Saber was, was confused.

[00:06:39.29] spk_2:
She was confused. You’re right. You read the book closely. Yes. My mother, uh, I, I was very shy when I was young and she thought at a certain point I got past it that I became this confident and outgoing person. Well, she wasn’t seeing what was underneath, which was, and still is a somewhat shy introverted person who wants to move through the world in a certain way. Command respect, uh uh, and be seen as confident and able because, uh, there is some bias, there are lots of biases in the world, of course, and there’s a bias towards people who are more articulate and uh forward and, uh social.

[00:06:41.56] spk_0:
Yeah. Well, they

[00:06:42.33] spk_2:
suck up all the oxygen thing

[00:06:44.41] spk_0:
up, all they suck up all the oxygen and, and so there’s no choice but to pay attention to them because you can’t get a word

[00:07:05.20] spk_2:
in. Well, this is true. This is one of the challenges for introverts that we can’t get a word in unless we jump in ahead of when we really want to participate. And this is one of the great dichotomies between introverts and extroverts. Is that rhythm in a conversation?

[00:07:20.06] spk_0:
All right. So let’s, so let’s talk. Let’s get some of our terms. Uh settle, settled down. So, so introvert, extrovert, uh let, let, let’s, let’s uh uh contrast the, the introvert extrovert for us,

[00:08:03.18] spk_2:
please. Well, in fact, it, it all comes from science and uh introverts are introverts and extroverts are extroverts because of how we’re wired and because of our neural pathways and our transmitters and our enzymes. So which is actually great news to be able to say we are who we are as, as we want to in so many parts of our life and say this is simply how, who I am, who I was born to be. And uh there are a few points here. The first is that introverts have longer neural pathways, brain pathways that they use in thinking through an idea coming up with an idea, coming up with a response to a question, introverts have a longer pathway and dig deeper into their memories into their pasts, into their knowledge base to come up with an answer. Yes.

[00:08:33.40] spk_0:
You say you say introverts rely more on long term memory. Extroverts rely more on short term memory.

[00:09:29.87] spk_2:
Correct? So it’s much easier for an extrovert to grab it that short term memory or what’s coming through their mind right at that moment and to then spit it out and feel it’s a complete thought. Whereas the introvert really wants to stop and think before, before responding. And I, I ask people if they have this same challenge I’ve always had when I’m in a situation where I have to talk quickly. I repeat myself because the first time I say something, it doesn’t sound complete to me, it came out too fast before I could put it together. And I’ve had to watch and try to keep myself if I’ve had to talk quickly from repeating myself. It’s a bit of a mind thing there. Uh You might get too much into your mind, but I, I watch that now so that I’m not repetitive. And you

[00:09:37.83] spk_0:
said you asked other people are uh did you find

[00:12:58.28] spk_2:
and other people find the psycho with you? Yes. Yes. Yes, they are. Simpatico with me. They get it. So that’s the first difference. The second difference has to do with dopamine and Acetic Cole. And I’m not a big science guy, but I dug into the science for this book because I really wanted people to understand who they are and what’s making them tick. Everyone’s heard of dopamine. We hear it all the time. We hear about it in terms of sports and that rush and everything who’s heard of coli very few people. Well, they are complementary uh neural transmitters. Dopamine is called the feel good uh uh transmitter or enzyme. And when dopamine is activated people, well, pe dopamine is activated, I should say by external rewards and excitements and things. Aesthetic cole is the internal, feel good that’s activated by going inside by what’s what, what you’re feeling inside yourself. It’s a more of a self-satisfaction and it’s been proven that dopamine is more active in extroverts, anesthetic coline and introverts. So, extroverts are motivated for that to get that excitement, to get that rush in the moment that might come from meeting with people, meeting new people at a bar, going to an exciting concert and feeling the the mood of the crowd. Whereas introverts aren’t as reactive, their dopamine isn’t as reactive and so are less drawn to that type of activity and get less pleasure out of it. They get more pleasure out of quieter activities and often more solitary activities where they’re actually thinking deeply. And I’ve noticed only very recently, I’m not a big joiner. That’s an understatement. Actually, I don’t like to join things, but I’m into groups. One is uh yoga. I’m a big yoga guy and I realize what I like about yoga is we’re together, but we’re not really interacting. I’m feeling the energy of the room without having to be social the whole time. I’ve also been in a chorus for the last two years as you know, tony, I started singing now, I’m in a chorus. And what’s nice about the chorus is we chat a little bit beforehand and during the break, but most of our time together is spent making music where the interaction with each other is, is not a social interaction and it’s much more comfortable for me. I hear of these meet up groups all the time and for a million dollars, I wouldn’t go to one of those events. So, so, you know, I’m very aware of where I’m getting my energy, people think because I do have many friends and because I do well in social circumstances that that must mean an extroverted. But in fact, I’m using a tremendous amount of energy that wears me out. So those are the two big differences and sometimes people to simplify it. Think of extroverts as those who talk to think and introverts as those who think to talk, right. Extroverts process out loud, introverts like to think, process internally and then talk,

[00:13:24.15] spk_0:
you make this clear in the book, let’s uh distinguish between being introverted and shy. Uh

[00:14:27.87] spk_2:
Yes. So often they’re conflated because they often result in the same thing. Someone who’s a little reticent to be in groups, maybe a little awkward uh off to the side, want to spend time alone. Uh Shy has to do with fear of being judged and the opposite of shyness is an introversion. It’s outgoing ness if you will. Um So you can be shy or introverted or both. So, um there are shy extroverts which might seem odd but uh it an extrovert can be drawn to the shiny object into the, the uh the big social circumstance and still be shy in that situation, uh for fear of being judged. They’re, they’re two different pieces of the pie. OK.

[00:14:29.95] spk_0:
And then, and then you throw in, uh, Ambivert,

[00:14:33.81] spk_2:
which I

[00:14:34.58] spk_0:
thought, I, I thought of, I thought of her Metro but you don’t, you don’t call it her Metro.

[00:14:41.08] spk_2:
That’s a big scientific term.

[00:14:52.28] spk_0:
And it’s a nice, uh, that was a good prefix for, uh, for, it could be either one, her Metro but um uh Amber, Amber, right? Adex, we can balance both. Yeah. You think they exist? So

[00:16:42.93] spk_2:
yes, I think the ambivert exists. There’s been a lot of discussion about Ambivert lately. I think it’s helpful, but it can also keep you from understanding yourself because basically if you’re gonna say, well, I’m everything. OK. Well, what drives you, what, what you, you need to have some way forward and I, I think ambivert to me implies an equal amount of everything. Whereas I think we are most of us more of one thing than another. So you’ve had me on before and some of your listeners probably know the asking styles that we created at asking matters. And those really were the kernel even for this book. And uh there are four different styles, but we also have a secondary style for each because no one fits cleanly in one box. And when people take the quiz or they look at the graphic, they, they, they sometimes say, well, I feel like I’m a little bit of each of those. And I say, well, you know, you could be closer to what you’d call the origin of the various axis in this, right? Some of us are Uber, this or Uber that we’re all on a spectrum. We all have more or less of various things, whether it’s uh um in testosterone or it’s introversion, right? Dopamine reaction to dopamine reaction to a subtle and the idea through all of this discussion, I think, and through all of these different uh personality assessments and the work I do specifically related to fundraising is help people get a better sense of who they are, feel comfortable with that, understand they can succeed, given who they are and that they don’t have to be the other.

[00:17:26.62] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Donor box quote. We’ve seen incredible results with Donor Box. In the last year. We’ve boosted our donations by 70% and launched new programs in literacy, health, child care and tailoring for our girls. That’s Jennings W founder and executive director of Uganda 10 18. If you’re looking for a fast, flexible and donor friendly fundraising platform for your organization, check out donor box, donor box dot org. Now back to fundraising for introverts

[00:17:50.99] spk_0:
since you, you raised the asking styles. Well, this seems like a good place to acquaint folks, but I was gonna bring it up later, but we may as well just remind folks, you know, first of all the quiz that uh you referred to is at asking uh asking mats dot com and it’s AAA three minute quiz you ask about th there are about 30 questions. You don’t, you don’t overthink them three minutes. You’ll, you’ll get your asking style. But so what are we talking about if you can give us the 2 to 3 minute version of what the asking styles are? No point in my trying. You’ve been talking about this for decades, you can do it much more succinctly.

[00:18:12.19] spk_2:
Ok? I I had a feeling you might be asking about the asking styles later, but it just felt like the segway. So you,

[00:18:30.73] spk_0:
yeah, so you know, you run amok. Uh The guest guest takes advantage and has his own agenda. That’s fine. But I, I, so I yielded to it. Uh but I’ll just make it uh explicit with my consent. We will move into the asking matter, the asking stylist and

[00:18:39.70] spk_2:
for the record, one of the things I just adore about you is your sense of humor. And I think that’s why we get along. So

[00:18:46.55] spk_0:
please do proceed with my consent.

[00:22:16.09] spk_2:
Why? Thank you, sir. Kind sir. So the asking styles were developed by me and actually by Andrea Kilted, she was my co-founder. I always give her credit for this. Um And we, we came up with them because we wanted to help people in the field understand their strengths as askers, fundraisers and in, in particular askers because asking for money. That moment where you ask is such a difficult thing for so many people. And most people say I can’t do that. Especially volunteers and board members, we were both dealing with lots of boards and board members would come on and say I’ll do anything but fundraise. I’m not a fundraiser and so forth and we wanted people to understand that there isn’t just one type of fundraiser. There’s this stereotype which truly is just that uh fundraising and the fundraising, you and I do a lot of the major gifts, the plan gifts, capital gifts, they’re all based on relationships. We all have relationships in our life with a variety of people who have different personalities and we make it work and we bring different parts of our personality to the table depending we acknowledge uh who others uh are in, in, in terms of their personalities. I just saw a new book came out something about get people how to get people understand people. We wanted people in this nonprofit sector to understand who they were as askers. And we based it on two characteristics. First, how you interact this extroversion, introversion spectrum and then how you think uh the analytic intuitive spectrum and came up with a grid, not dissimilar to a Myers Briggs or a disc grid or any of the personality assessments people are familiar with, but we did develop it ourselves from scratch. Uh uh And, and the result is these four major uh asking styles. Rainmaker go Getter, Kindred Spirit emission controller, either the analytic extrovert, the intuitive extrovert, the intuitive introvert or the analytic introvert. And based on that there are skills and a style that predominate for you. Whether it’s the analytic extrovert. The rainmaker who is sort of driven strategic competitive, keeps their eye on the prize very objective or the intuitive expert. The go-getter who’s, who’s a big picture thinker and makes friends easily quick on their feet, engaging important skills for fundraising. The intuitive introvert, the kindred spirit, feelings oriented that is who I am. We our hearts and our sleeves, very personal relationships. And we tend to be attentive and caring and thoughtful towards other people, not to say rainmaker and go getters can’t be caring, but we excel at thinking about others and making them feel good. And then the mission controllers, the analytic introverts who are very planful and systematic and detailed and observant the best listeners, those most likely to sit back and watch what’s happening. And for those of us in fundraising, we know the number one skill really is listening and learning from your donor. It’s not telling them everything about your organization and trying to convince them of something, but learning from them and understanding who they are so that you can relate them to your organization and vice versa. So those are the four styles and um

[00:23:40.35] spk_0:
each of them, each of them has value in fundraising. Uh each of them could partner with others to enhance their own skills. Each of them could identify potential prospect and donor relationships based on their own styles as well as the prospect styles as, as best as you can suss those out. So, and you and I have talked about the styles on the show. I, I we’ve, we’ve done a show devoted to the styles, the styles and all and the, and the quiz to find out what your style, primary and secondary is again, is that uh asking matters, not asking styles. That would have been too simple. I don’t know why they didn’t choose asking styles but they didn’t. So uh they, he Brian, I don’t know why he didn’t, but it’s asking matters. Go to asking matters dot com. That’s why um that, that’s where the quiz is and that’s where all the info is. And uh I am, I am a uh uh I’m a Go Getter, Kindred Spirit. Yes. My, my one and two. And you’re a Kindred mission controller,

[00:24:35.43] spk_2:
right? OK. So your intuitive really dominates and you’re um you’re strong intuitive, strong from the gut. Yeah. And my uh and, and you have, you might say about more of a balance between introvert, extrovert, you’re not Uber, extroverted necessarily, right? My, I am uh being a, a Kindred Spirit mission controller. I am primarily an introvert and I have a balance of the intuitive and the analytic. In fact, you know, II I have an economics degree. I have a business degree. I have an architecture degree. I have all of these degrees that do depend a lot on quantitative measurement analysis, things like that. And I’m a good organizer. I don’t care to do it. I’m a kindred spirit. I’ll go along with whatever anyone wants to do because I want everyone to be happy. But people put me in charge because I can do it because I can organize something I can put on a special event if I have to and it’ll work well. So that’s how I define

[00:25:00.09] spk_0:
myself. In fact, you were CEO at uh Hudson Guild in New York City for years, six

[00:25:10.63] spk_2:
years, I was at Hudson Gill for eight years in, in total as deputy and as Ed and yeah, and I, I was pretty good at running the place coming up with budgets keeping to budgets. Uh

[00:26:09.27] spk_0:
Yeah, it would not have had eight years of, of uh lackluster performance. No. So certainly it was uh it was a successful run. All right, let’s talk about one of the opening chapters. Introverts are great fundraisers. We’re here to celebrate introverts because we, you know, we don’t want people to feel that they have to be something that they’re not right that you have to appear. You have to make a, make a AAA presentation or uh put up a facade of something that you aren’t to meet some fundraiser stereotype that is uh uh lacking and phony and we, you know, if you’re an introvert, we want you to show up as you are wherever you are, what we want you to show up as you are. But we’re celebrating today. Introverts. So, uh, like I said, early chapter introverts are great fundraisers. Why is that?

[00:28:31.44] spk_2:
Yes. Well, to pick up on something, we said a little earlier, the, the number one point is definitely the listening skills in a conversation. You’re either talking or you’re listening. Hopefully, if you’re not talking, you’re listening to the person who’s talking, I guess you could be zoned out. And in fundraising, we want the donor to do more of the talking. Well, it’s much easier for the introvert to sit back and let the donor do more of the talking to have more of the focus on the donor to keep asking questions and having the donor answer them. It’s a good skill overall, but it’s one that comes more easily to introverts and sometimes extroverts have to work at it. We, we talk about how we want our donors to talk more than half the time. Ideally more like 65% of the time if we can get above that. Amazing, not always so easy but important. So this listening is key and, and another reason listening is important is that it’s been proven that we remember the least of what we have heard. We remember much more of what we ourselves say and do, and we remember the most about how we feel or felt. And if, if, if, if I’m a fundraiser and I’m talking nonstop about my organization and not really including my donor in the conversation. My donors not gonna feel that great may might feel. Oh, ok. It sounds like a great organization. But isn’t going to feel any attachment, isn’t going to feel involved? Isn’t going to feel like there’s any stake and further may not even remember the important points you’re making because you’ve made so many points your donor might remember them all might remember the least important might phase out. So listening is extreme ordinarily important and it’s something that introverts do really well. We also tend to go deep rather than broad, right? That’s how our minds work. So we like deeper friendships, deeper, more meaningful conversations and it’s not that extroverts don’t like meeting people aren’t intrigued by people and such. But introverts do dig deeper and develop uh uh deeper relationships.

[00:28:39.35] spk_0:
Curiosity. II, I call it, I uh you refer to it in the book too, a curiosity about people.

[00:28:56.20] spk_2:
Yes. And I, I’m not saying extroverts don’t have a curiosity. Andrea and I were talking recently and she’s very curious about people, but she isn’t gonna dig deep, right? She’s as deep as I will for instance. Um And that there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s, it’s different, right? You, you, you can spread the net, right? Until,

[00:29:08.66] spk_0:
until the conversation gets awkward but you don’t

[00:29:43.37] spk_2:
maybe. Um but I, I do think you extroverts help spread the net wide if I want looking at it in a different way than I’ve spoken about it. You know, you make lots of friends and have lots of relationships and I think the introverts deep can deepen those. Uh So that is the non, so listening and, and being attentive because attentive is related to listening, right? So they go together and tho those are key

[00:29:47.11] spk_0:
also sharing our own stories.

[00:30:06.38] spk_2:
Yes. And introverts in particular, Kindred spirits are more likely to share their own stories. Intuitive come from the story side where analytics often come from the facts and figures and outcome side. Now you can put those outcomes and uh uh uh statistics in a story of course, and I teach that, right? You want to tell your story, but that touchy feely warm story often comes from an introvert and most often from an intuitive introvert, it’s just how we roll and those are proven to be rather effective.

[00:30:33.77] spk_0:
Sharing your own story also reveals that your understanding, you’re processing, you’re empathizing with what the person has just said because you’re, you’re relating it to your own experience, what you’re relating, what they had just said to your own experience and then you can convey that. So I, so as you, I, I think that reveals to the person you’re speaking with that uh that you understand and, and empathize and you’ve seen it in your own life and here’s how, so I fully understand what you’re saying because the, the same happened to me sort of.

[00:31:50.00] spk_2:
Yes. Yes. And of course, in fundraising, we teach everyone to do that. It’s just what comes most naturally. And at the end of the day, there are some fundraisers who are super duper stars with tons of experience who have closed gazillions of gifts and can and can figure all this out. But for most people in the field, we’re trying our best where we’ve had very little uh training. We’re board members, let’s say who have had virtually no training. Um And, and at the end of the day, we need to just rely on who we are and as introverted fundraisers, board member, other volunteers, staff member can rely on that listening, that empathy, that attentiveness to, to be very successful.

[00:32:44.12] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Kila increase donations and foster collaborative team work with Kila. The fundraisers, CRM maximize your team’s productivity and spend more time building strong connections with donors through features that were built specifically for fundraisers. A fundraiser. Crm goes beyond data management platform. It’s designed with the unique needs of fundraisers in mind and aims to unify fundraising, communications and donor management tools into one single source of truth visit, Kila dot co to sign up for a coming group demo and explore how to exceed your fundraising goals like never before. It’s time for Tony’s take two.

[00:34:39.11] spk_0:
Thanks, Kate. I got the COVID. Uh, I was, uh, very proud that I hadn’t gotten it all these years, but it hit me, I don’t know whether it was, uh, a restaurant or might have been my local food store or a little, uh, home goods store that I go to a local, little, not home goods, the big shop but, uh, a little, a little houseware store. I go to, uh, I, I think it was one of those places which, uh, just leads me to the lesson that consumerism kills because the I was spending money. I was spending money somewhere and I got sick. I certainly didn’t get COVID on the beach. Uh I didn’t get COVID pulling weeds in my garden, my flowers, keeping my flowers clear. I didn’t get COVID doing those things. So spending is harmful to your health, don’t spend and stay healthy. That’s the lesson that we pick. Take. That’s the takeaway. That’s the takeaway consumerism kills. Um, no, so, so it’s actually a, uh, AAA pretty mild case. No, you know, certainly no hospitalization just, uh, so my case was pretty mild, didn’t feel mild for a couple of days. But, uh, overall in the big scheme of COVID, it, it’s a mild case. So that’s that. So I can’t quite bring it all today. And, uh, you can hear that I’m a little nasally talking to Brian because we recorded just today while I’m also you know, so, not, not quite over this, like, probably 80% recovered. 80% of my charm is, has, has, uh, has recovered. So that’s the explanation. Everything’s gonna be fine next couple of days it’ll all be over and that’s Tony’s stake too. Consumerism kills. Don’t spend money and stay healthy.

[00:34:47.57] spk_1:
Kate. Yeah, you do. Sound a little funny, but we’re glad that you’re feeling better, tony. All

[00:34:52.65] spk_0:
right. Don’t spend money.

[00:34:55.42] spk_1:
We’ve got, but loads more time. Let’s go back to fundraising for introverts with Brian Saber.

[00:35:49.79] spk_0:
I have AAA personal downside that I have experienced to this. I do a lot of meals, uh meetings over meals and when you’re doing a lot of listening, you’re eating because the, the person is talking and there’s a meal in front of you and I have to pace myself so that my plate isn’t empty because I’m, I’m, when I say I’m, I’m allowing the other person to speak. I want the other person to be talking. I probably do meetings more like 80 20 them talking and me talking. Uh So at least that’s the way it feels. So you have to, I have to pace myself. So I don’t finish my, my meal before the other, the other person’s plate is still full because they’re, they’re doing all the talking, which I’m encouraging. So you have to, you have to pace yourself. If you go to the bathroom, that’s I find bathroom breaks. Good opportunity. Give somebody, five minutes to catch up. You know, they can, they can eat, they can eat while, while I’m in the, in the bathroom. That’s a good strategy. Um, also when the check comes, that’s another good time to go to the, go to the bathroom. Let them, let them ponder the, or when you know the check is coming,

[00:36:09.98] spk_2:
uh, you’ve only got five seconds on that one. Yeah. No, I

[00:36:18.45] spk_0:
know. Yeah. You say five seconds in the book. I, I let it sit there. I, I let it sit. You too. Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I’m representing a charity for pizza,

[00:36:23.82] spk_2:
but my hope is that I will then go for it and the donor will say, oh, no, please let me get that. I don’t want the charity to get it. Some donors don’t realize that I think some donors feel we pay all our own expenses as well. That shouldn’t

[00:36:39.42] spk_0:
be right either. That’s

[00:37:09.65] spk_2:
not right either. That wouldn’t be right. But we assume that our donors understand so much more about how the nonprofit sector works than they do the most sophisticated ones. Do those who have sat on a number of boards. They get it. They make sure not to put us in an uncomfortable position when the check comes and such. But most people are at, at the beginning of that journey. You know, we, we, we have to remember in this nonprofit world that most people have less information than more whether they are volunteers, donors or staff.

[00:37:16.12] spk_0:
Yeah, they do.

[00:37:17.76] spk_2:
We really want to help. Honestly. Not that we don’t want to help a little bit the, the, the big guys as they call them, but they have tons of professional, super experienced staff and board members. Most of our nonprofit world doesn’t have that. And that’s who I really want to help. That’s who needs the most help.

[00:37:35.78] spk_0:
That’s why you’re on nonprofit radio. We’re, we’re big nonprofit ideas for the other 95%. You’re speaking, you’re speaking to that other 95%. Yes. Yes, with my consent. Um

[00:37:48.37] spk_2:

[00:38:03.69] spk_0:
All right. Um, no, host is good enough, you know, sir, is not necessary. Just host. Um I, I wanted to be sure to thank you for putting me in the index. I have a, I have a quote. You asked a plan to you, you asked my reaction to uh, or my explanation of how planned giving could be, uh a little easier, maybe a little less taxing for introverts and I was happy to do it. And then you put me in the index. So I’ve never been indexed before. So thank you.

[00:38:37.57] spk_2:
Haven’t been indexed. Ok. Well, you’re great. You’re quoted. We brought um, a, a good perspective to plan giving because we talk about all the different roles in fundraising, not just the major gifts. And uh, and your expert perspective on plan gifts was uh really helpful and maybe we should say and, and to find out exactly what he said, they need to read the book.

[00:38:44.80] spk_0:
Well, what I would do when you get the book is, uh, I would jump to page 89. 89. Yeah, read my quote because if you die while you’re reading the book and you miss out, you know, 89 is kind of far away if you don’t get to 88. So if you don’t make it through the book for some reason, so jump to 89 read the important part and then, you know, jump then, then go back to the beginning and read, uh read about every, all the rest

[00:39:09.09] spk_2:
and advice. I think we’ll have to put that in social media somehow and make fun of it. All recommendations start on page 89.

[00:40:24.20] spk_0:
Uh But since we are talking about planned giving, everything you and I have just said about what makes uh in introverts are great fundraisers that all applies directly to planned giving. It’s just that you’re doing it with folks who are 60 to 70 plus. I mean, I, I uh I worked with a donor, I worked with a donor who was 99. She just very sadly, she just died on her 1/100 birthday. Exactly the day she died as on exactly her 1/100 birthday just last, just last week. Uh oldest donor I ever had worked with many uh shout her out Marion. Um many lovely lunches with her Um But you, so you’re just doing it with older folks. That’s all you’re listening. You’re curious and what rich stories they have to tell about the Great Depression World War Two Vietnam era for the younger, for the younger plan giving donors, Vietnam, uh Korea for some of them. Um You know, so there’s just a, a AAA glorious wealth of history that you can learn when you listen to folks. You are 70 or over.

[00:40:32.40] spk_2:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think planned gifts are great area for introverts.

[00:40:34.08] spk_0:
Absolutely. But all of fundraising is all. That’s the point. All right. Um We got some more time. What uh what would you like to, what would you like to talk about that? We haven’t, we haven’t yet. You’re the author,

[00:43:38.40] spk_2:
I’m the author. You’re, you’re the host, but I’m the author. You are. I would love to talk about board members. Yeah, I do a ton of work with boards as you know, um I train boards all the time. So I’m in these situations where I’m facilitating and one of the things I’ve learned from those trainings and even more so from the virtual trainings. We’ve been doing the last couple of years with Zoom and now we’ll be doing tons of going forward. Uh Is the impact of this introversion, extroversion dichotomy on how boards function. If I use as an example after everyone has chatted at a board meeting and given their two cents and the chair says, does anyone else have something to say? And someone actually raises their hand and waits to be called on a often that is, that person has something really smart to say that has not been said before. And two, it’s often an introvert saying it and this has become even more so on. Zoom. I was doing a training a few months back and we asked people to raise their hand that little yellow hand if they wanted to speak. And people just kept speaking. Some people kept speaking without being called on. And finally someone called on this woman and she said, yes, I have been waiting politely with my hands up to speak. She wasn’t going to cut anyone else off. She was an introvert, right? Her and she was, she was also polite. You know, there could be a dichotomy between polite and impolite that has nothing to do with anything. But uh I say this all because if you are not as the chair in particular, if you are not aware of this and finding ways to get feedback from all of your board members, you will be missing out on the introverts. Uh Who II I and this is this shocks people. I never give my opinion in a large group. If someone asks for an opinion, I never raise my hand and offer it. I don’t ask questions when I go to con, if I go to a conference or I’m sitting in some talk, I generally don’t. Uh, because if I raise my hand, someone calls on me, I will actually then be a little embarrassed that everyone’s turned around to look at me and I have to say something. So if you want my opinion, you’re gonna have to ask for it in a different format. Uh, you might ask for it beforehand and try and get a group consensus before the meeting. You might go around the room so that everyone has their moment or follow up if you haven’t heard from certain board members, don’t assume just because someone isn’t talking a lot in a board meeting that they don’t have something to say. Now, does that,

[00:44:04.82] spk_0:
does that include saying Brian, we’ve, we, we’ve been on the topic for a while? You haven’t, you haven’t said anything. Is there anything? I mean, you’re basically calling them out.

[00:46:47.25] spk_2:
You are and they can say no, I’m fine and that, that might be a little embarrassing, but I think they’ll also feel you have respected them by noting that, right? Whether they want to speak or not, uh, they want to feel they’re part of the group and that can get a little tricky as in any group. You know, how much do you acknowledge someone? How much do you leave them alone? Uh, but it’s critically important in boards to, to be watching for this and making sure everyone has been able to participate and have their views heard and validated. Um If we look at the asking styles where we break people up even further, we need to make sure on our boards that all the styles are represented, including the kindred spirit, mission control or introverted styles because of what we bring to the table in terms of process, in terms of making important decisions. If everyone on your board is a rainmaker or go getter, you’re going to come to certain decisions that could be rather biased. Uh When you’re trying to build a strategic plan, decide on next year’s budget. Uh as an executive committee review, you know, in, in reviewing the executive director, when you have all four quadrants, you’ve got the strategy of the rainmaker, you have the opportunity, vision, really forward thinking nature of the go-getter. You’ve got the heart, the the interpersonal of the kindred spirit, really looking at the person as a person or looking at your programs through people who are impacted. And then you have your mission controller who’s looking at the plan and the system and whether it can get done and you need all four. So appreciating, introverts is important to getting the work done and having the strongest plan. And I will use as an example. It might, I think it might be in the book. I, I’ve been working with an organization for a couple of years. They did a strategic plan when I read it. I didn’t think it was particularly strategic I thought it, it felt like a business plan for the next year. Uh The growth wasn’t significant. The new program development wasn’t significant and this is a very strong, solid organization on solid financial ground doing incredible work, an organization that could take the next leap. And when we uh had everyone take the asking sales quiz, we found that most of the board was mission controllers. And so I, what I think happened is the board’s discussions quickly went to, can we do this or how do we do this? And there wasn’t enough time spent on aspirational goals and strategies and what was possible, which are what extroverts sooner bring to the table. Bigger

[00:47:08.45] spk_0:
vision, bigger visions were missing.

[00:47:10.89] spk_2:
I’m sorry, the bigger

[00:47:12.05] spk_0:
vision was missing.

[00:48:10.77] spk_2:
Yes, it was. And, and that can sometimes be a challenge with introverts uh who who may not push far enough, have a have that bigger vision but immediately are going inside internally, which could create some complications for them actually. So we, we just need to be aware of this in all all settings and, and we need introverts on our boards, right? We, we need everyone who is passionate about an organization to feel they belong and want to be a part of it and fundraise for it. OK? And that’s where the asking styles and this book in particular come in making sure everyone’s validated you. And I know we can’t find enough board members, we can’t find enough board chairs for the million and a half nonprofits, executive directors, development officers. And it’s actually going to get worse before it gets better. They say, because the whole baby boomer generation is retiring. And, and so either we validate everyone now and bring everyone to the table and we’re talking about it in many ways. We talk about DE I in many ways. But another, this is actually another lens for that to make sure everyone’s at the table.

[00:48:29.50] spk_0:
You’re talking. Uh As long as we’re talking about boards should uh just give a little mention to our, our uh deceased friend Michael Davidson. Just uh just a little, just a little mention for David Michael. Your uh your book together was uh engaged. Boards will fundraise with an exclamation mark. Uh And I had the two of you on talking about that. So just a little uh little remembrance of uh Michael Davidson. Yeah.

[00:49:35.16] spk_2:
He was an extraordinary member of our community um without ever drawing attention to himself. Modest as could be and knowledgeable and extraordinary and being able to understand boards and bring people around, help strengthen them. And he, it turned out to be my, which I didn’t realize at the time, my greatest mentor uh for almost 20 years I learned from him so much of what I know today about boards and, and miss him terribly in which he were here on our conversation uh with us. It would be a delight So thank you for bringing him up. Oh,

[00:49:51.16] spk_0:
it’s a pleasure. I always think of him when I think about boards. Yes. So why don’t you leave us with something? Uh You know, we can only scratch the surface of the book, which I say every time there’s an author, you, the place to get this book is uh fundraising for introverts dot com. But uh leave us, leave us with some inspiration. I think we’ve been inspirational for, for introverts. But we’re, we’re all, we’re celebrating introverts today. So leave us with even more good news for

[00:53:47.84] spk_2:
introverts. Ok. Well, and before doing that, let me just say from a sales point of view at fundraising for introverts dot com, you can find out to tons of information about the book. We have blog posts. Um We’re starting to put up some videos on different smaller thoughts, individual thoughts and all sorts of resources to buy the book, you buy it wherever you buy books. So we’re not self fulfilling uh um books uh book orders. Uh Amazon, of course, Barnes and Noble bookshop dot Was it bookshop dot com? Is it called? Which actually uh Andrea talked about it. It feeds money back to bookstores um or through your local bookstore. So I just want to say that that um and if you can buy through your local bookstore, amazing because they’re so important still and, and, and any bookstore can order this and get it for you in a matter of days to leave with an inspirational thought. Well, first I’ll say because so so many of us in the field knew Jerry Panis or knew of him, right? For those of us uh in the field for at least a while, he was the Pantheon wrote 21 books, including the book asking many of us have read one or more of his books and Jerry was an introvert. So the person we look at as one of our greatest fundraisers ever and someone who’s taught so much of us so much, uh who taught so much, uh for decades and still does through his books and through the institute and everything. He was an introvert. Um So to me that’s inspirational and, uh, and I guess here’s some inspiration. Um, you know, fundraising is a long game. I think it’s long game, you know, that it’s building relationships over time for the 25 years. I was a frontline fundraiser, executive director. I always thought I was less then I, I hate special events. I don’t like meeting new people. I never go up to someone and introduce myself if I can help it. That’s the shy. I don’t like the phone at all. Uh, very difficult. Um, and I kept thinking someone else can do this, you know, and someone else is a better fundraiser and, but all along, I just did the work, I did the work, I did the work and, uh there was a um AAA an older lady I was cultivating when I worked for BRANDEIS University. I was in charge of fundraising in the Midwest. She was in uh her name is Rosalyn Co I can share that. Uh she lived in Chicago. I met with her many times. The president met with her. We really developed that relationship and it was almost all one on one and she would come to events. But I we had lunch many times and I brought her to the campus in Boston and such and she passed away only a few years ago and left her almost her entire estate to BRANDEIS. I mean, it was $50 million or more the largest gift the university had ever gotten. And that’s not all credit to me because people continued to cultivate her and such. But I certainly was the person who opened that door and really involved her for many years doing my one on one work, right? And that’s um and there are many stories like that, that a decade, two decades, three decades later, uh come to fruition by, by doing the work that introverts do so well, which is building these deep relationships.

[00:54:20.65] spk_0:
Brian Saber info about Brian and his book, You’ll find at fundraising for introverts dot com. Brian. Great to see you. Thank you for sharing. Congratulations on the brand new book. Number one in Amazon in the nonprofit sector when it came out, right? Number one number one in the, in the, in that category. Congratulations. Thank you. Good to see you. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. Thank

[00:54:33.08] spk_2:
you. As always, tony. Next week,

[00:54:43.82] spk_0:
I’m sick. Give me a break. I will get somebody good. Plus we’ve got 659 shows to choose from. I’m not gonna let you down

[00:54:45.84] spk_1:
if you missed any part of this week’s show.

[00:54:48.72] spk_0:
I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com.

[00:55:24.33] spk_1:
We’re sponsored by donor box. Outdated donation forms blocking your supporters, generosity. Donor Boxx, fast, flexible and friendly fundraising forms for your nonprofit donor Boxx dot org and buy Kila grow revenue, engage donors and increase efficiency with Kila. The fundraisers CRM visit Kila dot co to join the thousands of fundraisers using Kila to exceed their goals. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff and your associate producer, Kate martignetti. The show’s social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein.

[00:55:53.07] spk_0:
Thank you for that affirmation. Scottie be with us next week for nonprofit radio and I will be feeling much better, big nonprofit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.