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Nonprofit Radio for June 19, 2020: WOC & Life And Career Lessons

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Yolanda F. Johnson: WOC
Women Of Color in Fundraising and Philanthropy is a new online community. Founder Yolanda F. Johnson returns to explain what it’s all about.




Alex Counts: Life And Career Lessons
Alex Counts has over 30 years in social entrepreneurship. He returns with his latest book, “When In Doubt Ask for More: And 213 Other Life & Career Lessons for the Mission-Driven Leader.”





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[00:00:11.34] spk_1:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio big non profit

[00:01:30.09] spk_2:
ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’ve suffered the effects of obliterating and daughter rightness if you inflame to me with the idea that you missed Today’s show woke W O C. Women of color in Fundraising and Philanthropy is a new online community. Founder Yolanda Johnson returns to explain what it’s all about and life and career lessons Alex Counts has over 30 years in social entrepreneurship. He returns with his latest book, Winning Doubt, Ask for More and 213 Other Life and career lessons for the mission driven Leader on tony Steak, too. Start the racism conversation were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As Guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar Mountain Software Denali Fund. Is there complete accounting solution made for non profits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Martin for a free 60 day trial and, by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo. My pleasure to welcome back Yolanda F. Johnson.

[00:01:32.96] spk_4:
She is president of Y F J Consulting and founder of Woke women of color in fundraising and philanthropy. Ah, brand new site. Which is what we are membership community, that we’re here to talk about. Yolanda, welcome back to the show.

[00:01:47.84] spk_5:
Thank you for having me. I’m really not to be here.

[00:01:50.58] spk_2:
Absolutely pleasure. So there’s a lot of excitement. You are launching this new

[00:01:54.58] spk_4:
membership community. Woke women of color in fundraising and philanthropy. Um, Big launched June 30th. What is vocal about?

[00:02:47.34] spk_5:
Well was created Teoh support and celebrate and champion Women of Color and fundraising and philanthropy. It’s unique in the sense that it comes at the very intersection of fundraising and philanthropy to support both could be a professional, them both up areas of, um of the good work that’s being done in our society. So those who are raising the funds, those who are giving the funds and how just toe help everyone be strong in the work that they’re doing. I am also for the first African American president of Women in Development, New York, and from that work where I launched a diversity and inclusion task force that reports coming out soon. By the way, ah, what we’ve been able to accomplish. I just started to realize that it was necessary to create the space. And over the past few days, uh, it’s that amazing feeling of validation that you get when you work so hard on something and put it out there and then suddenly just responses been overwhelmingly positive. And I’m really grateful for that. And I know for sure that it was necessary to create the space.

[00:03:22.64] spk_4:
Yeah, awesome. I want O for the first time and I’ll try to remember Say it again before we close. Let listeners know you’ll find it at W O C. Hyphen f p dot or ge right?

[00:03:22.94] spk_2:
Come dot com dot com. Okay, scratch

[00:03:25.94] spk_4:
with the scratch with the lackluster host Just said wsoc hyphen. F p dot com. Yeah, what can members expect from the community? What what’s it all about?

[00:05:18.84] spk_5:
It is about again back to that mission statement. So we’re providing high quality content from women of color for women of color who have accomplished so much just inspiring and imparting all of that sage advice and knowledge. Financial literacy is another big component of woke, because I think that’s important for both the fund raiser who is a professional, Um all those who could be underpaid as well because we’re going to talk about pay equity. Um, and then also for the philanthropists, because we want to talk about building wealth and the definition of what a philanthropist is, uh, people, a lot of women of color, especially because of some of the religious background on bonds. You know, there’s a lot of money that’s given from their annual income to maybe religious institutions. And sometimes, you know, we may not necessarily see ourselves as philanthropic, but we are so just toe disperse some of the the myths about what a philanthropist is and who’s a philanthropist on and for those who really are in the philanthropic sphere toe focus on that wealth building and for those who are on the fundraising side to really help them, Teoh navigate endemic first and foremost and then move their careers forward. So we’ve got programming never take to have in person. Evans will have those right now. We’ll have lots of virtual offerings, discounts, Teoh, exclusive discounts to brands, partner brands, Um, and in the future, we’re gonna have a mentor match program and also one for executives to have accountability partners with each other. They may not need a mentor, but they want someone to talk to about certain things. We’re also offering online resource library. That’s gonna be jam packed with findings and reports. And publications are people of color and women of color. Uh, just trying to compile a ZX much as possible in one place in addition to regular career by something that are just helpful. There’ll be a lot of anti racism tools there as well. Um, so, you know, lots of amazing things in articles. Lots of content by experts with articles

[00:05:45.04] spk_4:
for women who joined before June 30th. There’s a special career consulting, uh, session that they can have with you, right?

[00:05:56.24] spk_5:
Yes, with me. Okay. So I’ll offer that to them if then joined by. This is our launch period. Right now, we that the soft launch last Thursday. We’re continuing this whole introductory period until we celebrate on June 30th and stuff you joined in that time, I would be happy to spend 1/2 hour with you to give you some career council, especially at a time such as this. It’s a really good time to take a step back and just assess your career and where you want to be next.

[00:07:14.84] spk_4:
All right. Cool. Uh, W o c hyphen f p dot com Now you and I arranged this all before the murder of George Floyd on ah, Memorial Day, May 25th that we’re recording now, June 9th. But it was like, 10 days or two weeks before George’s murder that that your you know, you and I said, we’re gonna talk and you tell me about woke now in the wake of what’s now 15 days off protests, um, conversations about racism running much deeper than law enforcement, you know, into housing and education and health care and all kinds of bad outcomes for people of color woke seems even more relevant now what you want toe talk to the with the greater relevance that you’ve now happened on because of because of that murder, Onda, all the all the talking and the protests that have that have ensued.

[00:07:27.34] spk_5:
Well, I will tell you that I personally I feel restless. I feel so restless right now because I feel that because of everything that’s transpired, we’re on the cusp of possible real change, like it really could happen this time if the right steps are taken that if the dialogue continues, you know apartheid ended about three decades ago. Now, this year, and the being that special about how they handle things is that they will not stop talking about it. The dialogue has always continued because on the dialogue ceases, so does the progress. And so, Whoa, I just say now, more than ever, Teoh to come together this time, especially during an election year, just to empower ourselves, to support, to champion, to inspire, to move women of color forward in these professions because from the philanthropic area, you know there will be a very interesting time. You know, people who put their dollars behind their beliefs in a whole different way. And other people who were allies and non people of color may be more willing to invest and to learn and to use that privilege to help the cause off for the inequity. It still exists for women of color,

[00:08:30.68] spk_8:
and that’s a

[00:08:58.54] spk_4:
president that’s essentially you have to have people who have the levers of power and privilege allied with you. All right, so woke will, in part you’ve got a lot planned, but sounds like, you know, be a platform for keeping that conversation going when the cameras have focused elsewhere. Uh, you know, the memory of George Floyd’s murder will continue, but the deeper conversations and work and journey around dismantling racism and white privilege and power structures, you know that has to continue for

[00:09:03.99] spk_5:
the past.

[00:09:04.99] spk_2:
I don’t know. Decades.

[00:09:16.74] spk_4:
No. After the George Floyd murder. And so I hope what becomes, ah, platform for continuing that that important conversation. Like I said after the cameras have have looked away. So good luck. Good luck with

[00:09:18.55] spk_5:
woke. You look at

[00:09:33.43] spk_4:
Beijing on you’re gonna have an Allied membership. I look forward to being an ally of woke, uh, it’s women of color in fundraising and philanthropy. Wfc woke w e hyphen f p dot com Yes. Good luck, Yolanda. Great luck,

[00:09:35.34] spk_5:
baby. And thank you so much. Thanks for your support.

[00:09:37.76] spk_4:
My pleasure. Absolutely.

[00:09:48.71] spk_2:
It’s time for a break. Wegner-C.P.As. They can talk you through paycheck protection program. Loan forgiveness. Congress passed

[00:09:49.60] spk_4:
The P P. P Flexibility Act allows your or GE 24 weeks to spend money on forgivable expenses and increases the time to pay back what’s not forgivable

[00:10:59.24] spk_2:
it’s all explained at wegner-C.P.As dot com. Click Resource Is and Blawg. I’m very glad. Welcome back to the show Alex counts. He founded the Grameen Foundation and became its president and CEO. In 1997 he grew the foundation from its modest beginnings into a leading international humanitarian organization. Today, he’s an independent consultant to nonprofits. A professor at the School of Public Policy at the University of Maryland, College Park and then affiliated faculty of its Do Good Institute. He’s at Alex counts dot com and at Alex Counts, Alex counts. Welcome back to non profit radio. It’s great to be back. It’s a pleasure to have you. Good to see you, sir. Um, so you have this, Ah, very interesting new book. I’ll say it’s a very easy read. It’s very smooth. Read with 214 ideas that you’ve coalesce through the years. What made you sit down and collect

[00:11:58.57] spk_6:
all these? Well, you know it’s certain. Quit my career when I was having some enjoyment and success with mentoring a few young professionals in the non profit area. I figured how, how how could the things that I’ve learned often through terrible mistakes that taught me something. How could I scale it to more than a few people? I could mentor and I just started writing and I wrote 800 pages was all over the man, and one of the things I did was I just would sometimes break down 20 or 30 lessons that I was taught myself or someone taught me and it got to about 400 of them. And then with an editor, I boiled it down to the ones that were, you know, seemed to be the most relevant to the most people. That’s where I got 214. And when in doubt, ask firm or just is one of my mantra is and fundraising. So that was one of the lessons. And each lesson is described as you do so on just maybe three or four sentences. It’s a really just get to the heart of the lesson, not to adorn it with too many stories or details or footnotes or anything like that.

[00:12:05.35] spk_2:
Yeah, yeah, And there, uh, they’re categorized. The category is scattered throughout the book, so they’re not all in sections together. But you’ve got travel. You got bored. Management, fundraising, personal care. Wellness?

[00:12:20.11] spk_4:
Um, others. You got what I think. 88 or nine. Different

[00:12:25.83] spk_6:
category enactment. Public speaking.

[00:12:28.90] spk_2:
Okay, so I’m usually I take

[00:12:31.89] spk_4:
control because my show and I do whatever the hell I want on my show. But,

[00:12:35.06] spk_2:
uh, I’m turning around. I feel like, why don’t you kick us off? You You know, I have a bunch of I’d like to talk about, but, uh what what’s your favorite one or two? You know, you think tops

[00:13:37.83] spk_6:
Well, I mean, the way that I was able to, you know, I spent the first decade of my career doing a very extended a apprenticeship in Bangladesh with the future Nobel laureate Mohammad Yunus. And then I set myself up to running on profit, to advance his work and his ideas. And I wouldn’t have gotten very far if I hadn’t fairly quickly understood, changed my attitude. And my techniques are on fundraising. And so some of my favorite lessons here are run fundraising. How to see fundraising not as a zero sum transaction, but as a win win. And I talk about how I was able to talk George Soros out of $10 million in a way that, uh, you know, I I kind of just saw that this would be as much a win for him and his team as it was for me and Mohammed Yunus and very tactical things. I learned that if you’re gonna be a meeting with a major donor, um, you know, one of the people who taught me fundraising said you should be preparing from 4 to 8 hours for every meeting included, not including travel time, which I thought was initially absurd. What are you going to do for eight hours to prepare for a one hour meeting? But then I learned there’s actually a lot you can do, and the quality of those contacts improves dramatically. So it’s a lot of my favorite lessons, really, is how I built myself up from a reluctant fundraiser into a very aggressive And I would say, you know, successful fundraiser, which then allowed everything else. My people management skills, public speaking. You know, when you have resource is and you can attract really successful business people of foundations behind you, then everything else opens up.

[00:14:20.73] spk_2:
All right. Since you teased us on, we’ve got a good amount of time together. Take a take a little time. Tell that George Soros story.

[00:14:57.54] spk_6:
Sure. You know, I was I was just weeks into the growing foundation journey. But Mohammad Yunus sees you. He’s made a career out of asking people for big things. And so he asked me to raise $10 million for a project in Bangladesh that was end of being a huge success. But at that point, he needed, you know, you ate figure kind of money Teoh to move it forward. So I found myself sitting in front of our entire who is the newly appointed head of George Soros is fairly new foundation. And I sat with him and I explained the project, which I really didn’t know that well, but I just was, you know, kind of fake it till you make it, you know? Yeah,

[00:15:06.02] spk_4:
Or you took your own advice about spending 48 hours to prepare

[00:17:27.41] spk_6:
for. Yeah, I didn’t really I was I was just, you know, I read a little brief about it, and also, the Internet was still quite news. Like getting a whole briefing for Bangladesh would take, you know, 10 days and d h l and all that. I have that time. So anyway, I sat with him and I started just described the project and he was very impassive looking, and at one point he asked me something. He asked me how much money was needed. I’ve been really hadn’t divulged that yet. And I was terrified because I thought that to ask someone for 10 million in the first meeting my broach, some philanthropic etiquette that I barely understood and that he might call security on me and I was just terrified. And so I every bone in my body wanted to answer him in a kind of very hesitant way, almost apologizing for such a such an aggressive ask and some part of me I wasn’t get a good fundraiser in the preparation everything, but I just I followed my instincts, and I just answer his question as simply as possible. It said $10.6 million he wrote it down, asked me a few more questions left, left the room, said, I don’t think George is gonna go for this, but I’ll tell him about it anyway. So he’s setting expectations. Game of philanthropy we know so well and then and then fast forward a year. We got our 10 million. His wife was the vice chair of my board. Aryan Iris wife. They began making a, uh, a kn annual donation of £10.5000 dollars, which George Stars triple matched. And honestly, if I had one of my lessons in the book is I never asked for money, apologetically or hesitantly. If you’re doing that, there’s some. Go back and do some work on who you’re asking for, what and why. Because otherwise, if you’re coming from a place where I’m asking for money to do something good in the world that I think is going to serve the donor to, So why would I be apologetic or hesitant about the amount or any aspect of it so on and so that you know, that huge fundraising win early in my career on getting the other you know, things of their personal support are you and you, Yvette Dyer. You just propelled us in a big direction at night, and I maintained tony that if I had answered his question about how much I meant how much we wanted, you know, in a hesitant or apologetic way, none of those results happen. Dismissed is an amateur who doesn’t really even believe in what I’m asking for and I never hear from him again.

[00:17:55.72] spk_2:
That’s the key right there. If you come across is not having full faith and confidence in your own your own. Ask your own program that you’re seeking money for and what kind of faith and confidence so you’re gonna get from from outsiders were looking in and no considerably less about it than you do expert on it. And you’re not confident. What do you gonna get back, what you gonna get from others?

[00:18:26.67] spk_6:
And and that hesitancy, I think, comes from a lot of people feel that fundraising is this kind of zero sum transaction where I’m trying to manipulate you into losing, giving me money or on, and yet it doesn’t all have to be that way. That’s that’s what I learned. But this is why so many volunteers over the years have told me is that I will do anything to support your organization, anything at all. Except please don’t ask me to fundraise. It’s rooted in that idea that I need to kind of manipulate someone to lose a transaction rather than to enter into a partnership with me where both parties come out ahead.

[00:18:34.44] spk_2:
What else? Um, keep it to you. What else? Around fundraising. Some of your 214 ideas. What else?

[00:19:27.68] spk_6:
One of the things that you know. I start by really good fundraiser Cedric Richmond, who I met through my board, share One of the things he just explained to me that we went through a major gift boot camp, and and he wasn’t big into doing simulate missions, but occasionally he would. But he put himself in the in the hot seat as the fundraiser where they learn when you ask someone for money. Yeah, and do it directly. Ask someone for a specific purpose in a specific amount. Don’t beat around the bush, and then you’re the one thing you have to do at that point is shut up. Is that Let them speak and maybe they’re gonna need 10 seconds to think about it. But to try to fill that awkward, what might feel like an awkward silence with some sort of nattering whatever your again, that’s another way of undercutting your ask on dso. So that was the on in a solicitation meeting I usually make me ask with the specific dollar amount in the 1st 10 to 15 minutes of the meeting, and then you just when you made the ask, it’s their turn, and they could say Yes, no, maybe ask questions, but give them that moment. Don’t feel like a silence is something to be avoided. It’s You got to give them time to think cause you’ve made a serious request of them and they mean you think before they make a serious response

[00:19:59.47] spk_2:
in that same sort of vein. I don’t know if you have this categorised under fundraising, but you like to spend, uh, spend time, you say, at least every three weeks with your major donors.

[00:21:32.60] spk_6:
Well, listen, people, um, people who could be a major donors and that and that’s the definition of that varies by organization. But where means organization? You have to know that there are other organizations after their money all the time knocking on their door, and some of them will tell them that they do what you do, what your non profit does. They just do it better. Um, And so, by taking donors for granted, which is one of the major kind of pitfalls of fundraising where you made an annual donation that you’re like, Let’s just leave him alone because something can go wrong. But when you when you let you know more than 34 weeks go by without hearing from, you know, they start to feel taken for granted and in many cases, other nonprofits air beating on their doors, saying that they’re more responsive, better, you know, better run, and you’re slowly going to lose them so it doesn’t have to. You know what you do to contact them every three weeks or have someone another board member do it for, Say, it should be tailored to that donors preferences and how they like to communicate. But, boy, you know, a little iron rule that one fundraising workshop told me is, don’t the three week rule. Don’t let three weeks go by without a donor hearing from you in some way. I adopted that, and I’m very few cases where I’ve regretted that people, people feel like you’re important to them. They’re important to you, and you’re always gonna there was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not be taken for granted.

[00:22:01.34] spk_2:
that could be a simple is leaving a message. Yeah, I was dropping an email thinking about U S. So a bit of news made me think about you, whether it’s related to your organization or not. You know, it’s just simple, you know, just courtesy and relationships. Yeah, it’s just I hadn’t seen it, you know, every three weeks or so, but, uh, yeah, for your major donors, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. These people are investors with you, Uh, you want to keep them, you want to keep them close, and you want to know that you want them to know that you’re thinking about them. It’s more than just a transaction for

[00:22:08.84] spk_6:
you. That’s right. There is. When my borders said that, You know, I like nonprofits that don’t regard me as an a t. M. And they realized that I have I have a brain on dhe feelings and connections their assets as long as well, in addition to my bank account. And yes, I think some contacts could be very slight. You know, we had a success here. I wanted to share with you, especially if it’s personalized in some way. I know you have a particular interest in our work in the Philippines, so I wanted to share this other times you should be more substantive, and I find one of the things that builds bridges with donor many donors the most is to ask them for advice on things that you’re struggling with. And you don’t have to do it in a way that your seeding, the decision making to them. That’s when a lot of non profit leaders feel. I just want your view and get in the end. I’m gonna make the decision, but you may be able to help me think it through. You may have faced a similar issue in another non profit. That you were involved in a war in your business on DSO asked him for advice. It shows humility. It shows respect for what they know on it just draws them in closer

[00:23:13.10] spk_2:
to your mission. What about you have advice around responding to your critics, and I think a corollary to that is everybody has critics. It’s OK. It’s OK to have critics.

[00:23:21.97] spk_4:
If you’re making an impact, you’re gonna offend some people or but bother. However you want a category call it, but, you know, piss some people off, whatever it is responding, responding to critics.

[00:24:56.26] spk_6:
Well, there either. Couple of related things here. I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to, but they’re all I. One of my rules in this 214 is is don’t be afraid to make a few enemies, you know, Don’t rob yourself of spontaneity trying to everyone. And I would if I were to write the book again, I would almost amend that. It’s all I would say Talk about counterintuitive. It’s OK to burn a few bridges if you’re doing it truly out of on an issue of principle. I once was forced to resign from aboard because I stood up for good governance principles. On the way out, I sent a letter to some of the major donors saying that I think you should look into this and I didn’t make many friends on the people left on the board. But I checked back two years. They actually fixed a lot of they’re not all that’s a lot of their board dysfunction. So with the hand I somebody Sadio, I engaged. I was encouraged people to engage in the big debates in their fields and to do it not too carefully to do it in a pretty outspoken way once they have a point of view, even if it’s a minority point of view and then interview questions. This was I learned from a head of HR Grameen Foundation. One of the great question interview questions I’ve learned is I asked people, Teoh take kind of two to think about who they worked with. Are there kind of critics on dhe? Not the ones that were hopelessly biased against them, for some reason. But the thoughtful critics and what they have to say and what do you have to stay back to them,

[00:25:16.91] spk_2:
right? Right. Yeah, that’s one of yours. Um, let’s talk about some of your, uh, some of your self self care self care

[00:25:18.72] spk_4:
ideas. What do you like there? What’s

[00:27:28.84] spk_6:
your guy? I began my my book that came out before this one with the story of, ah, iconic homeless activists who I talked to for the one and only time in my life. And then he killed himself like the following day. And it was front page news guy by the name Mitch Snider. And and yet a decade later. Here I was three years into my dream job and I was gaining weight. I was irritable with everyone. I was I was on that same slippery slope to self destruction, and I I just said I got to turn this around. I’m not, uh, not that good at what I do that if I I’m I’m unwell that I can really perform the way I need to. So I do. You know, all sorts of things, but probably about 1/4 of the lessons this book around self care in one way or another. And it sounds indulging to some non profit leaders, one of which just became maniacal about about aerobic exercise because it relaxed me and relieved my stress and anxiety. And when I’m anxious, I make decisions that are really often quite poor, so exercise helps me be less anxious. Uh, on the other hand, I learned a quirky, funny thing that I kind of tap into a more more playful, less self important part of myself. If I’m always doing something in, uh, that I’m a novice at that. I’m a beginner at that. I’m bad at news. Someone said something to be once recently said, having the courage to suck it something, Um, and a lot of us as we get into our forties, fifties and sixties, we do very little that we’re not silly, semi competent at, because you make a says look foolish in I just found that to be such a gift. Teoh do that. And it just it makes that self importance that self kind of complacency. But you get it just it brings it out of your whole life because you’re just in that one domain. You’re a novice, and you just can’t help but laugh at yourself and not take yourself so seriously. So right now I was cooking was my was the thing I was a novice at. But I’ve actually got, like to an intermediate cook in the last, you know, maybe 6 to 12 months. So the latest thing I picked up is meditation, and I’m terrible at it. Oh, horrible, Andi. I may try to meditate after we do this show, and I just in my mind will launder, but you know, But it it just reminds me that there’s lots of things I have to learn.

[00:27:42.74] spk_2:
There’s plenty to suck out, we need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software. Their accounting product Denali, is made

[00:27:59.64] spk_4:
for non profits from the ground up so that you get an application that supports the way you work that has the features you need and the exemplary support that understands you. They have a

[00:28:09.74] spk_2:
free 60 day trial on a listener landing page at tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant. Now time for Tony’s Take two Start

[00:28:40.99] spk_4:
the racism conversation. That’s our latest special episode. My guest is Case Suarez, executive director of Equity in the Center. This is one of those moments where you can be the change you wish to see in the world. Ending institutional racism can start with each of us. If we’re each willing to take the needed action, you can start in your office by opening the conversation about race. This show will help you. It’s out in podcast. If you prefer video, it’s on my YouTube channel in the racism and white privilege playlist

[00:28:51.85] spk_2:
that is Tony’s Take two. Let’s go back to life and career lessons with Alex Counts. We’re talking about his book winning doubt. Ask

[00:28:58.36] spk_4:
for More and 213 other life and career lessons for the mission driven leader.

[00:29:05.64] spk_2:
What was there something in particular that triggered you at that time of life? To realize that

[00:29:13.96] spk_4:
you are on a downward trajectory? You said you were gaining weight and stressed and not eating right. Was there Was there an episode that made you realize it wasn’t

[00:31:06.62] spk_6:
sustainable? Yeah, um, there was It was It was it was just kind of a slow downward trajectory. In many ways, on dso is having some professional success, but I was deeply unhappy again, gaining weight £30 heavier than I am today, irritable with my wife curable with my staff. They knew it. They were complaining to the board. And then just one time, we had a We had a a Christmas party, and for some reason, and it was just they they some someone with the contract with the restaurant that hosted it. We paid way too much for the bar bill. Um, and so we like got a huge amount of liquor that we’ve already paid for. Um, at least you know, And so I we just all started drinking. And for the one the only times 1000 college, I actually ended up that night basically getting sick from drinking too much. And one of the people most admiring the world happen to be staying with us that night. You didn’t come to the party, but we met up with him. I was so ashamed. T see me like that and I just said something’s gotta change on When I was in a gym a few weeks later, I weighed myself. I saw a number I’d never seen before. I’m like, this is we’re gonna change this and then it I wish I could tell you and your listeners that it was, you know, one magic idea that changed me. But it was just literally hundreds of things that I started experiment with to make sure that every year I was a little bit healthier mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. That I was the year before and the ones that worked I kept doing. And the ones that didn’t I didn’t do. But it was. I wasn’t willing to follow that non profit strapping him works. I saw her. I was going following perhaps Mitch Snider. Sadly, I didn’t want to go. That it was almost my personal on wellness was a badge of honor. Is a non profit leader when it’s for so many. I said, I’m getting off that treadmill and I’m just gonna try new stuff and just keep doing the stuff that works. Even if I’m a little not is prepared for a meeting, even if I’m not as prepared for a board meeting, that’s a cost. If this is a marathon, not a sprint, that’s a cost that could bear.

[00:32:05.44] spk_2:
You mentioned may be sacrificing on an hour of sleep. You know, to exercise that Maybe you mentioned that one of your travel tips something, but you know, it’s it’s This is not at all self indulgent, you know, there it’s wrongheaded thinking to be wearing your self sacrifice as a badge of honor. The way you say it, you if you don’t, you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of anybody else. Whether it’s a spouse, your staff, your organization, you have to take care of yourself. You have to love yourself enough to care for and love others, whether those people or institutions. Otherwise, you don’t you don’t have it in you. If you don’t have an interview for yourself, you’re not gonna find it for others?

[00:32:17.89] spk_6:
No, but there. But there is this. I mean, the some of the dysfunction of the non profit leadership culture that you know I still get sucked into on occasion is, you know, people say, Well, I’ve been taking a vacation six months. I haven’t taken a vacation in two years. That’s how dedicated I am Or don’t

[00:32:26.79] spk_2:
blame. May I hear? You know that’s not my fault,

[00:32:47.81] spk_6:
right? And, you know, and so different strokes for different folks. But, you know, I always When I was running Grameen Foundation, I worked. I worked plenty hard, but I’m rarely carried over a vacation day from one year the next cause I used it all up. I had a blast. I went down to Qs Florida, where I have a lot of friends and just would party like I was, you know, you know, 25 years old, and then I’d come back and refreshed and that’s indulgent than you know. So be it. But it helped keep me help keep my kind of equanimity through some very tough times because I had that I gave myself permission to enjoy things like that

[00:33:08.90] spk_2:
you mentioned in the book that Key West Florida is a very special place for you. Ah, place where you can act differently. Then you need to act. And the other 90 98% of your time,

[00:33:58.50] spk_6:
I kind of slipped into a different persona. I mean, I don’t hide what I do, but a lot of people that know me there just know me as someone who is a kind of a group B for some of the local bands there. And and you know, when I get out, get out on the dance floor, kind of make a fool of myself, You know, if the slightest provocation and, uh on all and you know, if they and many of them I’ve known them for years, they never asked me what I did, or if they did, they didn’t understand it. They just never asked again. So I get to slip into the different persona and on have some deep friendships that are based on what my my professional accomplishments were failing or training. It’s just a human being, and, uh, who just enjoys that on it was just, you know, is a particularly for a 10 year period, very intense, work wise that having that outlet was so important and that the things going back to the thing about being a novice, it’s something I got so entranced by one band that I volunteered to be their fan club manager because they didn’t have didn’t have a fan club and I was so bad at it. I mean, I didn’t understand their genre of music, the music business. I mean, I was I was terrible, but I had a blast. It was so much fun. And I just you know, I’d be around musicians and there

[00:34:30.27] spk_2:
was something else something else for you to suck out. That’s right. That was

[00:34:53.14] spk_6:
the original one. It was it was in describing that to someone else that I kind of tripped upon that were generalized lesson there because I ultimately got good at being their fan club president. But I found it important to find something else that I was terrible at and joy didn’t want to be good at, and I’ve always you know, I’ve always had something that I’ve been doing to this. This is 12 years later, 13 years later,

[00:34:56.94] spk_2:
you still get the Key West every year. Do you treat yourself

[00:35:43.00] spk_6:
I do, I dio In fact, I was gonna do event for this book. Uh, when in doubt, ask for more and it got canceled because of Cove in 19 and it’s gonna be rescheduled, hopefully for December. But unfortunately, Key West is starting to suffer the effects of climate change. And otherwise I might be scheming to buy a place there. And that’s, Ah, an issue that I come to care about. They talked about in Key West. Ah, high tide flooding in a lot of places. And it’s like, you know, this is this Israel, folks, but I get down there at this point right 2 to 3 times a year, and I just I just love it on. I just love the kind of person I could become there. That that is just a lot less serious than the one that’s up here in the mid Atlantic.

[00:35:57.66] spk_2:
No, you also talk about in the book. You suggest learning a new language, every body. I don’t know. We just 10 5 or 10 or 15 years or something that you okay, something to indulge in, learn a skill and and be a novice at.

[00:37:06.00] spk_6:
That’s right. I mean, languages. So and it’s, you know, it’s especially when you to learn your first foreign language as I did in my twenties is is hard and humbling. But I mean it does so much re wires your brain. I think it puts you through the humbling process of being around fluent speakers when you’re not and you’re so self conscious and you bust through that and also languages. Such a such a gift to be brought up with English is the world’s business language is your native language. You don’t really have to learn, uh, foreign language, but if you do, it could be a huge built bridge builder with people from other cultures to feel forced to learn English. But for you to make the attempts to breach the language gap in the other direction by so many Bangladeshis were just stunned that I put in that effort to learn Bengali on dyuh, and it was because again I cared. I wanted to. I want to make them comfortable in our communications on. I put a hell of a lot of work into it, and the trust that was came out of that was huge. Let’s

[00:37:17.83] spk_2:
talk about some of your travel tips. I like, uh, like a bunch of those. Um, make sure you exercise. We talked about being indulgent to yourself while you’re traveling. Be a grateful tipper. You

[00:38:10.46] spk_6:
know, I early I was in my twenties and teens. I don’t know why. It’s not really how my father brought me up on my parents, but I was You know, I was always, uh, very frugal, you know, how little can I tip on? Guy was I was very frugal with praise of people. Afraid it makes them, you know, complacent. And I just learned that by being generous with people, the service industries, If I think you just feel better about yourself, you feel like a generous person. You feel like, and I just I swear that travel God’s pay you back. You know, if you tip on a trip, the likelihood that your plane is delayed coming back, I think, goes dramatically down. I can’t prove it. There’s there’s no logic to it. But just the travel gods are look out for you. If you just push yourself to be at least is generous if not more than local custom dictates. Also,

[00:39:22.77] spk_2:
when you run into trouble. You know, if your if your flight is canceled delayed, you’ve lost. You missed our connection. You know, whatever it is, if you if you approach the customer service person, whether it’s on the phone or you’re standing in a line, Actually, I like to stand online and call at the same time. So if I get one of the other windows lines along, But, um, you know, if you approach them humanely, you know, not pissed off. I think you get I think you get a better outcome. You know, like you. You know, I can’t prove it. But there are. There are often things that people on the other other side of that on the customer service side that can do for you that they may not They’re not gonna be so willing to do if you’re not thoughtful and kind. And, you know, they know that you’re I know you’re upset, but you know, they’ve got a job to do, too, and they’re trying to help, you know, they want they don’t want the 400 people calling you from the flight that just got just got canceled. No. Didn’t want it any more than you do? If you approach them humanely, I think you get a better result. Plus, you’re just going to feel better about yourself. After the transaction is over, we’re going up the phone. You’re not gonna feel like the asshole. But aside from that I think you get I think you get more out

[00:39:24.67] spk_4:
of people when you approach them. You know, with honey rather than vinegar that old that old

[00:39:33.71] spk_6:
so and I always have just found. You know, if if you want something from an airline or ah, or rental car agency or whatever a hotel you know without any sense of entitlement, ask him for it. Working in a nice way and you’ll be surprised how often they’ll give it to you or looking you something like it. Now, if you ask with that sense of, you know, anger, entitlement will, probably even if they can give it to you, they might not

[00:40:44.81] spk_2:
feel that they have a lot of discretion about things like that. Yes, yes. And they’ll exercise their discretion in your favor. If you’re I think if you’re just a thoughtful, decent person, I like there’s something I have a little thing I make a point of saying hello to the bathroom attendants in airports because everybody, everybody in an airport wants to be somewhere else. They’re either their toe leave or they’ve just arrived and they got to get to their hotel and they’re worried about where they’re going to get. Get a car. We’re gonna make the meeting on time. They just arrived or they’re gonna make their flight. Is the flight delayed? If they’re leaving that looking, everybody in an airport wants to be somewhere else. So I I just have recognized that probably the least appreciated people are bathroom attendants in airports. So I always make an effort. I tip them if there If there’s a typical tight, you know, sometimes there is a glass there or something, and, uh and I But I will at least always say hello. Thank you. You know, how are you? Have a good day?

[00:41:00.07] spk_6:
Well, acknowledging people’s existence while you’re traveling, which is something that falls by the wayside. Even people that begged for me. I don’t rarely give to beggars on the street, but almost always acknowledge their existence in the fact that they’ve asked me for something. I say, you know, sorry, I can’t today and kiss that human element. It takes a little effort, but I just think again the travel God’s just look out for you. If you do those those little things is you rush from place to place.

[00:41:23.66] spk_2:
You got some ideas about using sleeplessness on during travel to your advantage.

[00:42:12.30] spk_6:
Well, two things one is I used to in my twenties whenever I just had this. Like, I had this idea that if I lost the night of sleep, if I took a red eye, I was gonna be a wreck, and I just It was just all mental. It was like 80% mental. And so I just realized that you know every so often, if you do a red eye, if you don’t talk yourself into being a wreck, you won’t be. And I don’t do it two nights in a row on DSO sleeplessness When it’s just part of, um, just rushing around, if you don’t occasionally, I’ve done it even now in my fifties, and as long as I only do it once every month or two, it’s fine. I can function well if I just don’t get myself into that. But I also felt if your jet lag if you goto other continents, if I’m rolling around in bed at three AM, it’s like Forget it. I’m not sleeping tonight. Get some work done. Read a book. If it’s open, go to the gym on. Don’t just sit there, you know, kind of gnashing your teeth about nothing. Asleep used the time to do something productive.

[00:42:29.13] spk_2:
Time for our last break turn to

[00:42:59.20] spk_4:
communications relationships. The world runs on them. We all know that turned to is led by former journalists so that you get help building relationships with journalists. Those relationships will help you when you need to be heard. So people know you’re a thought leader in your field and they specialize in working with nonprofits. They’re a turn hyphen two dot ceo. We’ve got, but loads more time for life and career lessons.

[00:43:03.40] spk_2:
Some of your board advice you talk about diversity board diversity. That’s obviously Ah, very rich topic in the U. S. Well in the world right now, but you But you talk about beyond just gender and race

[00:44:04.17] spk_6:
Well and as important as gender and race are and how you handle gender and racial diversity, is one of my friends said. You know, if you’re trying to diversify your board on those lines, you know one person is a token to people, is a kabbalah and three people is of a certain gender race. That’s when you get real representation. So you didn’t follow through. But one of the things I learned is this just, you know, is diversity in terms of age, in terms of industry, in terms of wealth, in terms of profession, in terms of work style. I found I was on a board where the people from the East Coast on the West Coast really operated differently. And and And the only way was gonna work is if they just accepted the fact that the West Coast folks kind of participated meetings a little differently. The East Coast folks. And that was okay, um, and, uh and so that’s diversity. Just I came to think of it in so many different dimension. It’s not just race and gender is as important as those are.

[00:44:21.53] spk_2:
And you want those different perspectives. Not everyone professions, you know, on account in is gonna look at the financials very differently than marketing. Ah, marketing professional

[00:44:47.18] spk_6:
But I have had many people say to me, You know, you need to have people, Whatever you need to have everyone having wealth over X on the boards, you just basically get you get a bunch of, you know, white man in their fifties and sixties for the most part, a few women equally wealthy on this. Okay, if you want to throw in one other person who takes all the other boxes and that’s where you get the tokenism, Yeah, I’m like, No, you need to have a certain number of people who have a certain wealth profile that can help you in that way. But, uh, but you also you mix it up with some people from the nonprofit sector, academia, government, um, other, you know, other professions. And it’s great to have a CFO of another non profit on your board. Who can demystify non profit fundraising to your board members from corporate America because they get totally confused and they don’t believe you if you say it. But if appear says that they believe it.

[00:45:34.49] spk_4:
Oh, interesting. Yeah, that’ll that’s right. I remember that That’ll save you always having toe hire an outside consultant to validate what you know to be true, but your board members are skeptical about. Yep.

[00:45:40.19] spk_2:
You have some advice around, Um, a dysfunctional boards. Well, myself enough time to cover.

[00:49:07.25] spk_6:
Yeah. I mean, first of all, I think that of the four words I’ve encounter, I’d say 70 80% of the U s or dysfunctional when 11 type of dysfunction another. And so if you have a dysfunctional board, you’re not alone. But the thing that I learned is is that just a lot of people look a dysfunctional board, let’s say they could hire is an executive director, and they and they say, first, I want to turn around this board, um, in 90 days and boards of directors do not. Groups of that size do not change their operating style in 90 days and you don’t even try. But if you really want to go for it, it can happen in 3 to 5 years, and I But then the other thing I say, if you want to get there in 3 to 5 years, the way a lot of executive director sabotage themselves, they have another rule, which is I practice this really micro so I’m gonna start really investing in my board members, treating them exceptionally well and having their journey to the organization be well curated. But I’ll do that when they deserve it when they start producing. Problem is, they’re never going to start producing unless I do that first, unless I start unless I treat them is the word I want them to become and I treat them is if they’re already that board and it’s not gonna happen overnight. But over a course of years, if you start treating them exception like their high performing board, they’ll become a high performing board. But it’s one of my mentors said. It’s it’s is one new member. It’s one good meeting. It’s one good agenda item a time you build it brick by brick on dhe. If you do it long enough, you build something special. But if you’re if you’re looking for a quick fix, don’t even bother. What’s the balkanized board? Well, some boards. I’d say this is a relatively benign dysfunction, but it can get it can become serious. Even that is, you have some people join the board to like look after their donation. Let’s say they’re putting in one million out of $6 million in the organization. They’re opening up a new branch of your homeless shelter or there have you bring your social innovation to Latin America has never been before, and the problem is now a donor who’s doing that has every right to as a donor. But if a donor sits on a board and expresses no interest or commitment to the other 5/6 of the organization that they’re not funding, they just go to sleep when they’re talking about anything other than what they’re interested in, um, venue. Have aboard were No. One on the board or at least some people on the board, and it tends to kind of aboards get constructed this way. It’s not just one person where no one is owning the totality of the organization and how all the pieces fit together because everyone is just focused on their peace. And I say that whenever brings one on the board, I said you can you could be focused on Lee. A slice of the organization is a donor or volunteer, but on the board to get your card punched. To do that, you need to buy into every last piece of the organization. Be curious about it. Look for ways to support it. Learn more about it. Otherwise, get aboard Isn’t the right place for you. If you’re just only interested in a part of the organization, Uh, wards can’t survive that way. If just maybe the board share and the CEO can see the whole picture and care about the whole picture. That board, it can kind of lumber along for a while, it going limp along and do OK, but when crisis strikes, then it’s then it could get very messy.

[00:49:09.95] spk_4:
They’re not working together. They’re working in their little Balkan

[00:49:15.49] spk_2:
states together. And you have a corollary to that, Which is that being on the board is not about loyalty.

[00:50:44.26] spk_6:
Well, right. I mean, I I served served on board that, uh where you know, when people would go around the room and introduced themselves into retreat, they would say that, You know, I’m I’m I’m loyal to, um you know, I’m loyal to the founder. I’m loyal to the CEO, pledged their loyalty, and I’m like, who is loyal to the mission of the organization. What happens when the founder of the CEO, go off the reservation and take the organization in a dangerous direction. You know, it sounds like you’re gonna side with them, not with the mission. And I had 11 board, one member on that board, who whenever anyone criticized the executive director, you could just set your watch by a millisecond after the person was done speaking, he would basically in a kind of a friendly way. And assertive wasn’t a mean way. But he would just with a laugh. You just say that idea is completely wrong. We don’t need that without even taking a second to kind of think about it. Yeah, is there some validity there? So if any board member is reflexively either attacking or defending a person or part of the organization without consideration, it’s really a political thing, and they’re not really trying toe. They’re not taking the mission to heart. They’re trying to express their loyalty to some thing that is, to me, subsidiary to the mission. You

[00:50:54.33] spk_2:
also have advice about spending time with board members extra time more than you think. You should extra time with board members that we talked about it for donors. But you say like spend 2 to 3 times the amount you think you should spend with board members with board members.

[00:52:53.14] spk_6:
Yeah, well, you know that the reality is tony, that I think a lot of people executive directors who are in your 95% probably because they didn’t have someone to mentor them, and I didn’t immediately either. You think of fundraising is a necessary evil and board management board. Lee is honest, a necessary evil on. Do you know you’re putting yourself where you’re kind of You’re feeling invulnerable, independent? Whether this person is they’re gonna write a check, you extend my contract. Eso you often do as little as possible and delegate where you can. And I said, No, you just need to turn the tables there on Make your board members feel special, have every contact they have of the organization be it will be a high quality contact, whether it’s me involved or someone else, so that they just feel good about their participation. They feel that they’re not being, you know, that dealing with them isn’t a necessary evil to be done every six months, but it’s something that nurturing their full commitment to the organization on that become a part of their life that they talk about, you know, throughout the rest of their life. This is one of most meaningful things I did, and that’s partly the nature of the work. And it’s partly the way they’re treated on DSO. So yeah, I’m always there. Just what’s the next thing that create? This board member experience of the organization is something deeply meaningful for them and that they want to do anything that they could help to support. And that takes a lot of thought. It takes effort. It takes being in front of them on. It also takes This is another lesson is when a mistake is made with the donor. So many people just blame the donor or the board member or just act as if it didn’t happen. And I just think it’s a great opportunity to humble yourself to show that you learned from it on. You can actually build a better relationship, but it takes time when a mistake is made, is they inevitably are Onda. And so I’ve had many such cases. I gala go completely south with top donors chairing it on. I thought they’d never talked to us again. But in fact, they end up giving 37 figure gifts after that, just because we showed that we cared about them and that we learned from our mistake and wouldn’t make it again.

[00:53:17.93] spk_2:
There’s something called the service recovery paradox. Do you know it?

[00:53:19.09] spk_6:
I’m not. I’m not heard about it.

[00:53:37.40] spk_2:
Is that people who have been wronged by an institution, whether it’s a non profit or a company and and feel that that wrong has been remedied, that they were heard that there was a solution putting place, that the solution was implemented? Those people will feel stronger closer to the institution than those who never felt a wrong against them.

[00:53:54.95] spk_6:
I know my experience bears that out, but it just I find so many people overworked executive directors. I don’t want to be a mode blaming them where they just think these, even if they see that the work, the potential of that, it just looks like more work. And frankly, right now, with Kobe 19 there’s so many stressed out executive directors that putting in that you know that playing the long game with the donor of board members seems like a luxury, but I think it’s I think it’s even more important than ever is as hard as that may be, toe to swallow for people that feel under a lot of pressure right now.

[00:54:17.14] spk_2:
Yeah, yeah, and at all

[00:54:18.79] spk_4:
times, not only not only in the midst of, ah, recession and a pandemic and a deep conversation about race at

[00:54:31.82] spk_2:
all times and these air not necessary evils spending time with donors and board members. We just have about a minute left or so and I want to. I want to finish with your suggestion that you be a lifelong learner.

[00:55:07.78] spk_6:
Well, I just again this this goes to the goes back to some of my lessons around being a novice around being curious rather than being someone who’s, you know, kind of self satisfied with. What they learn is is just, you know, as much as you know that’s relevant to well being or your profession or your non profit area. You know, if you get if you feel like you’ve learned enough, you learned all you need to know. Right now, you just need to go give speeches and write papers and lost people around, and you’re gonna lose something very important, Which is that curiosity? The humility on? I learned it partly from a guy who was a publisher of The Miami Herald, and he just I met him in his seventies that he was. He’d been reading a book a week for 30 years and you’re still doing it. When I ran into him, he was reading a book. He told me about this and he said, You know, your lifelong learning like David Lauren, 70 lord Enough. But when you lose that desire, learn and self improve and humble yourself and be a novice in in the area that I think you’re just your ability to be productive and effective goes, goes dramatically down.

[00:56:01.62] spk_2:
Alex Counts, author of the book. Just Get the Book. It’s not only an easy read, it’s a valuable read winning doubt. Ask for more and 213 other life and career lessons for the mission driven leader. Alex, Thank you very much. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, tony. Next week, More tech goodness from 20 and TC interviews. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by wegner-C.P.As guiding you beyond the numbers. Wegner-C.P.As dot com by Cougar mapped in Software Denali Fund Is there complete accounting solution made for nonprofits tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turn, to communications, PR and content for nonprofits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen two dot ceo.

[00:57:17.81] spk_1:
A creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz Managed stream shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy. Miss Music is by Scots You with me next week for non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% Go out and be great great stuff talking alternative radio 24 hours a day.

Nonprofit Radio for June 28, 2019: From Opera Singer To Fundraiser

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Yolanda F. Johnson: From Opera Singer To Fundraiser
Yolanda Johnson’s classical opera training informs her fundraising practice. She’s the founder and president of YFJ Consulting and the first African-American president of Women in Development, NY. She’s with us for the hour.

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Transcript for 445_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190628.mp3 Processed on: 2019-07-01T21:38:46.887Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results Path to JSON: 2019…06…445_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190628.mp3.503741039.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/06/445_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190628.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% on your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with Hemi Diocese Eah, if you blindsided me with the idea that you missed. Today’s show from upper Singer to fundraiser Yolanda F. Johnson’s classical opera training, informs her fund-raising practice. She’s the founder and president of Y F J Consulting and the first African American president of Women in Development, New York. She’s with us for the hour. Tony. Stick to Hello from Boise were sponsored by PURSUANT full service, fund-raising Data driven and technology enabled. Tony dot m a slash Pursuant by Wagner CPS Guiding YOU beyond the numbers regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made easy text. NPR to 444999 I’m very glad to welcome Yolanda F. Johnson to the studio. She has nearly two decades of experience as a fund-raising expert and professional musician. She is founder and president of Y F J Consulting and the first African American president elect in the 40 year history of women in Development, New York. Her company is Why? F j consulting dot com Women in development is at wid And why dot or GE? And she’s at Yolanda F. Johnson. Welcome to latto Johnson. Thank you. My pleasure. Come a little closer to the mic. Okay. Classically trained opera singer. I’m surprised your your voice. I’m singing. You’ll hear everything. I’m speaking way. Make it to that. No, I wouldn’t put you. Okay. Um So Congratulations, President. Elective women in development with New York. You begin your term on July 1st run day. Yes, that’s awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. So timely. See, everything in your career has led you to this day on non-profit radio. Indeed. Everything that we’re gonna talk about and coming up culminates here. You’re at the pinnacle. It’s all downhill from here. It means it’s all downhill from here. I’m sorry. Uh, okay. So, uh, your Nebraska girl I am. How did you find your way from Nebraska? Thio Professional upper singing. That’s Ah, that’s not a typical trip for Ah, Nebraskan. Well, not necessarily so, but, Ah, we all have our own paths. I began with music probably four years old and that was piano first. And then I started to sing in church, Actually, Ah went to get a music degree of performance degree and undergrad in Oklahoma. Went to get a graduate degree of that, how to focus and fund-raising Arts Administration and fund-raising and then sold all my worldly goods and moved to New York. Because this is where you can do everything for singing for singing principally originally or fund-raising or something else. Interestingly, I never did. Fund-raising. Some people always have day jobs or you see performers and they have other jobs or surgeries or something like that. Hospitality. I’ve always loved both. I’ve always loved music and have always loved fund-raising. And I’ve always had them in my life simultaneously. Okay. What does it mean to be a classically trained opera singer? What? What is that what it means? I worked really hard with lots of teachers. Toe learn proper technique to sing opera and classical music. Uh, opera and recitals, Art song specializing spirituals as well with the underground railroad. Um, well, say a little more about that. What about spirituals in the underground realm? It I mean, you’re performing those now? Yeah. You have an album called Feel the Spirit. If you’ll feel the spirit. Yeah, and I have a concert lecture called a spirituals. Experience like that. Spirituals experience, spirituals experience, a concert lecture. So that’s talking. Singing? Yes. I teach people about the hidden messages behind some of the music, the spirituals, some of the things they meant with the underground railroad. Okay, Okay. I haven’t seen a lot of opera. Um, my, the pinnacle of my opera attendance was probably I saw Aida in Italy at the battle out at the Baths of Caracalla. Okay, which is an outdoor. It used to be a bathhouse in ancient days. Now it’s ah, it’s a performance space. And I was traveling in Italy. I just stumbled on these tickets from a booth on the street. You stumbled on this, too? Yeah, they were. Well, I had to pay for them, but I stumbled on the booth That was selling the tickets. Just said I eat a counter. Colin, Let’s go. I know what kind of call is. Um, so I mean, this was a lavish mean I eat It takes place in Egypt. I know you know that, but for the neophytes out there, uh, you know, thanks, marchenese. And there were there were all kinds of animals. There were camels. I think there were tigers on stage, like 100 and 50 people. I mean, this was a lavish. There were live animals and lots of people. It was amazing. It was amazing. It was a beautiful night. Um, anyway, so, um, have you performed in our you know, I have not performed. It’s the only one I know. Okay. I remember this was years ago. I don’t know, but I know it involves a queen and love and a mistress, and each of the plot of a lot of just like 90% of opera. Okay, Um, now you’re still currently you’re still performing? Yes. Yeah, you have some. You have a show coming up? I do. I have a show in August of Gian Carlo Menotti’s The Consul, and we actually put it in contemporary times. So it sparks dialogue about the immigration debate. Okay, um and we’ll say it now and then. We’ll remind listeners at the end, Where can they see the council? They can see the consul. I’ll be Magda, Magda, Cyril in that production at the amphitheater at the Hudson River Museum in Yonkers. It is not upstate. It’s just the suburb Yonkers. Yeah, well, right. For New Yorkers, that’s upstate. Yeah, but it’s not upstate eerie and buffalo Where? Upstate. Okay, but for geo centric New Yorkers who think this is the center of the universe, that’s you need a passport to get to Yonkers. OK, so if I don’t If I forget, you remind me that little pitching for that at the end to um So now you’re, um before we get to win. So opera and singing informs your consulting It does Y f J consulting very much. What’s the, uh, what’s the influence their of singing over fund-raising? Well, since you know, as I mentioned, I’ve always had a love for both. I found this intersection that makes me so excited. And it’s using performance practice in Philanthropy in and fund-raising. I realized I was at somewhat of an advantage, right, because, uh, I knew how to get into character. I knew how to breathe. I knew how to get through things that make may make other people nervous. Um, by using the things I had learned as a performer and all the world is a stage, I have a workshop that I just launched a month or so ago called All the World’s a Stage and it deals with that. It helps people. It coaches them through, um, being on that fund-raising stage and using performance, practice, toe succeed and excel. So we’re talking about overcoming the anxiety of face to face meetings, uh, training sessions, taking in-kind of public speaking, making me ask, making the pitch, knowing howto pivot if I’m talking to you and it’s not going quite right knowing what to say next, that’s improv improv. Yeah, uh, interesting. Because I was trained. I was. I was coached. I guess years ago when I was getting started, Public speaking, I don’t feel like I was very strong and my coach was a jazz singer and she brought in some elements of jazz, which is largely improv on. And then we thought this was incredible. She and I worked together for a couple of years, on and off, and then she felt like she had done everything she could to help me, and she recommended I take improv classes, and I loved improv so much instead, taking one class, I took four classes, like in a year. There were three month classes. I think I could come back to back improv at UCB, the Upright Citizens Brigade here in New York City, and that really she She did take me to another level. But then improv. Just the confidence of walking on stage with a scene partner with knowing only one word like knowing your first word of your first sentence and relying on your scene partner or team. And even if you’re not confident faking it until you make it getting into character, taking that breath, walking out there and just doing it, giving that performance done whatever it is that the stage is the board room, if it’s on the stage, you’re always on stage, right? Pretty much in life. You want to live an authentic life, but you also want to be prepared and be able to navigate. All right. So let’s, um, let’s take our first break and then we’re gonna talk a little more detail about, uh, some of the things you just ticked off some of the some of the, uh, singing lesson performance lessons that specifically that inform your informed fund-raising and speaking etcetera. OK, little detail pursuing you could check out their new podcast go beyond It’s hosted by their vice president, Taylor Shanklin. You know heart because she’s a friend of non-profit radio. They’ve been sponsors for a long time and, uh, tell has been a guest on the show. Ah, a couple of recent episodes of Go beyond our Optimize your fund-raising events. That’s where uh, you want to start in events and you used to do events and I still do a lot of even okay on also self care for leaders. You’ll find that at pursuant dot com slash resource is And, uh, let’s go back to upper singer to fundraiser. OK, OK, so it’s a little more detail about I mean s o I riffed on improv. But what are some of the specific, uh, skills that you can bring from performance toe help fundraisers? While one thing in particular, I think, whoever your audience is, if it’s 205 100 people in an auditorium, if it’s your board of directors, if it’s some major donor prospects, um, you know, always being prepared, nothing will save the day like being prepared proposed. So you have two from the version. You nothing’s gonna get you by if you don’t prepare. Um, but once you have that, there’s a certain peace of mind that comes. And then so you understand your audience and you want to make sure that there’s a level of comfort between you and them with, especially with American audiences. Um, we don’t breathe a lot as native speakers of English. You ever notice? Well, have you ever noticed that you’re talking and you’re just having this conversation with somebody? Maybe not you, because you’ve done improv, but a lot of us other people were just talking and then suddenly take a really deep breath. Yeah, sometimes on the show, I think everybody’s here is my breath of, like, some kind of Godzilla something? Yeah. You take a huge breath because you haven’t been breathing. Okay, you don’t want to walk around breathing too much, But you want to relax, right? Because your audience, actually on the subconscious level, consents when you’re not breathing, and it makes them very uncomfortable singing or speaking. If you’re going to long, they’re like, Oh my God, she hasn’t burghdoff. I’ve also done stand up comedy along with improv, and the audience can definitely sense fear. Maybe it comes from breath. I don’t know, but they can tell when you’re nervous, and that makes them nervous. And your material could be fabulous. But they’re scared for you. So they’re not laughing the way you want them to. Yes, it’s like nervous. They can smell your right. I mean, audiences consent. So you got okay. So be prepared. Gives you confidence. You’re not fearful. People don’t sense your fear. Right? And then you just know what you’re doing, right? I’m having a conversation with you. Have done the research. You do. You’re prospecting as a fundraiser. You read your lines, you learn your music as a performer. Be prepared, whatever it is that you’re doing. And then that gives you that peace of mind. So I’m having a conversation with you where I don’t necessarily just have bullet points in my mind that I want to cover. I have them. There’s back-up. But I can have a real authentic conversation with you. Right? And and from that comes hopefully dollars and cultivation of relationships and augmenting of audiences. Um, anything else we can touch on Besides, Okay. So preparation, preparation without breathing are there breathing out. Do you go through breathing exercises with clients. Yes. What’s a breathing exercise? We do one. Sure. I’m trainable. Do I need to stand up for it Way? Pretend I’m standing cause then we gotta just a mic and everything. Okay, But I’m standing. So whenever you take a breath, the proper breath is not a shallow one that just goes straight out front. Right? It’s a breath that’s barrel shaped. We have these muscles between our ribs. Wireframe. Everybody talks about the dye from, but think of your not necessarily untrue. But think about your intercostal muscles, right? That’s the one that connect the ribs to the spine. So your breath should be barrel shaped, not shallow. There you go. And into the shoulders, like up, up, up. It doesn’t have to be effective just because deep and then you control it out. Whether or not I’m sitting there and I’m about to perform or if I’m about to ask you for $10,000,000 Tony, you take that breath. Then I can look you in the eye and we can have an authentic conversation. Okay. Did that help? Did you notice the difference between the shallow and the also the pacing of your the way you were talking to? Yeah. Together. Yes. Okay. Like you change, you can change the mood in a conversation through pace. Exactly. So And pace is very closely related to breath. You can get people’s attention with silence, like you built in a little silence. Not awkward, but there’s some pauses. You could get people’s attention that way. Yeah, I did that. I stand up trying to get do that some time to stand up, take a pause like every second. Doesn’t have to be filled with syllables, Right, Because in the audience starts getting stressed out. Okay. Okay. What? Thank you. You’re welcome. Um, this is very good. All right, So this is the intersection of performance and on dhe fund-raising, and of course, you’re right. We are sort of constantly performing and fundraisers, all the mauler, whether you’re in a board meeting, whether in a 1 to 1 meeting, and I may not even necessarily be a solicitation. Just trying to get to know someone, make them comfortable so that a couple of meetings from now you’re gonna ask them to be a step up for the campaign or for the dinner or to be a major volunteer or be a boardmember. You know, whatever it is not only about dollars. Whatever ask it is we’re going to because you can’t just ask people unnecessarily immediately for money. You want to cultivate that relationship, and you want to be asked again, or you want to have your invitation accepted the next time so you can continue that process. And if it’s awkward, uncomfortable, you’re lowering the chances of going to get any mail. Yeah. You get an email after a call, right? You get a voice, you leave a voicemail, get an email. That’s about that usually bad sign. Um, okay. Um, let’s all right, let’s talk some about weed. 40th anniversary of the first black feet up. Well, they’re all females. First black president of weed. Congratulations on that mountain. Um, what’s ah, what’s coming up for? Weird? This is a big anniversary year for we do. It’s a huge anniversary year. I happen toe. Just love this organization. I don’t just say that, um it’s been ah, really big factor in my fund-raising career and in my life. And it has some amazing women that are really running this town as faras fund-raising is concerned in the tri state area. Really? And for our 40th anniversary, we have lots of wonderful things planned new programming. We have a really robust programming schedule. We’re gonna delve deeper into some issues that we haven’t necessarily touched upon before about the experience of being a woman in the field. Like what? What are some of those issues? Uh, well, we’re actually gonna have a conversation about the role of men. Okay. You know, uh, and we’re gonna look holistically at the Wood woman. And who women are in the development field and embrace the role of men. I mean, like, I could snap size that I can summarize it in a sentence. White men have all the power. Well, we’re gonna talk about that. Okay? Maybe you should come to that session. That’s very interesting that you say that I wasn’t gonna bring this up. Um, but I will. Eso Years ago, I tried to be a speaker at Wood, and they had some kind of policy. I know it was written. You are just Ah, er de facto. But they weren’t. They weren’t bring in mail speakers. Well, I’ll put it this way. Would is open. Wit is really smart. Okay, I will. I will say that not just because I’m a better organization, but we’re dealing with some really highly intelligent people who make on really good decisions for the organization where it’s at whatever period. But what is it with this one when they wouldn’t? Well, I don’t know that they blew it. They just made a decision that was best for the patient. But that being said, um, we our mission is to empower women in the field, whatever that means in whatever way, um, is appropriate at that time. And so, in this particular season, we’ve been around for four decades and, ah, we find the value in having that conversation about empowering women. And what does that mean? You know, how can this whole village of people in philanthropy and power women in the development field And so, um, at that particular session, it would make a lot of sense, possibly for you to join us. Us. My committee’s list way have witnesses. Okay, I would love to. We’re gonna send out live Mr In Love with your money or in Manhattan right now. But I also want to make clear that they don’t know they’re not to be men in the room to talk about dealing with male power. No, not not. Not at all. But we, as women, have talked about it for a long time. And now we need we want to look at it from a different perspective. And not only that, but again empowering women. So we have programs around professional development skills based, um, wellness. You know, we’re gonna be introducing that this year. We’re going through a rebranding, so we’re gonna launch that. Ah, remember meeting in September? Eso just lots of really wonderful, exciting things. We also talk about leadership, of course. You know, in the trajectory of a women and development members career, uh, how to assess that. And then we have this amazing network of women that are so supportive. There’s a sense of camaraderie with wood that’s just unique is with national. And this is the New York chapter we’re talking about. Or is with New York unique with geever imminent development. There are other chapters, but there’s not a national body that oversees us. Okay, but there’s a chapter and others would Greater Boston. Um, there’s one in New Jersey. There’s one upstate and actual upstate. Not unless you think there’s running around Westchester to, um and, you know, we’re actually doing some research to really discover. So if, um, your audience is brought right over the country all over the country, So if there are wood chapters that we may not know of, we want to talk to you, actually, because we like toe toe, have a conversation with you about getting together and working together. Um does would you mentioned the network does does with encourage mentor ship. You must we do we have an organic mentor ship that happens? I’ve had several really, really pivotal mentors that have come through with that have taught me so much. Um, and I think that we all find those relationships. It’s why going to our networking events going to our programs. You end up developing this circle of colleagues and really friends, Um, that it lasts for years. Yeah, it’s crucial. I’ve had lots of guests talk about it, and I’ve experienced it myself. Um, mentor ship. It’s very important, and that’s one of the beautiful things about many in leadership with with our board of directors phenomenal women. Uh, and I don’t say that I don’t give free compliments. Um, I mean it when I say that, and they are so open too, you know, spending time with young professionals with other people if they have questions really championing. And again, we all go back to empowerment of women in the fund-raising field. Is there a coronation on Monday? Monday, July 1st is our coronation event that we should be attending at the Cipriani or Oh, uh, you know, But we just had our woman of achieve that lunch. Johnny, did you okay a week or so ago. Um, you know there isn’t it? It’s a quiet transition, but, uh, but nonetheless enthusiastic. What is your first official act as president? My first official act. I already have a task list for Monday of some things that just need to get done. I’ve been working for a while, actually. Our outgoing president. I’ll give her a shout out here. Brooke Bryant, um, wonderful person and leader and, uh, Brian of the Kaufman music. She’s a doctor development there. And so I’ll just be looking forward to a lot of the things that I’ve started implementing. Really as early as January. She was very supportive. We started a system that hopefully I’ll be able to continue of allowing the person coming next to begin the planning process so that they can be ahead of the game before that January July 1st period. Sounds like you had that advantage. I did. And how long is your term? Two years. Two years? Okay. And 2020 is the 40th year of which is that right? Through this is our 40th anniversary year. But we’re gonna have ah ah, birthday anniversary bash in January to celebrate that we’re entering that no one will sit at the Pierre Hotel. Cipriani, would you like to sponsor about sponsoring? But I might come. Where is it? What were you doing it? Those details will be available later. We have a lot that we’re launching at the meeting in September. Okay, so January General January. Miguel in general. Not big gala, but big celebration celebration. Okay, um, as an events person, I’m very careful about that word. That g word piela means that it means a certain certain expectations. 1000 human-centered anabolic at the world over story, Right? Right. So, events, um, do you Do you still enjoy events I love even still. Do you still like putting them together? I mean, I know it’s not your practice, but you still like being the organizer of events On a personal level, I think I planned my first even when I was six years old. Okay, two years after you started music so late bloomerang events. All right, Um, and I personally, I love to love people through that they’re being bringing them together through, ah, common bond. A mission Just, you know, an affinity for something with delicious food and for what was right for you mentioned food? Yes. Food enjoin. I think our great lubricate er’s for a room. Yeah, you know, just it’s that sensory thing. Yeah, it’s a sensor thinking a sharing Its A shares were coming together with a table not necessarily sitting around it but the buffet table. Or if we are sitting down together, it’s sharing a space. That’s why exactly, And for a non-profit, it should have that same sentiment. I think you know, we’re all what makes it special. Is that your coming together to celebrate? It’s a culmination of them, you know, belief in the organization’s mission. Um, it’s not just the party, but it is a celebration. You know, Um, yeah, events. I have a hard time doing it. I just the details. Like, Does the bunting match the flowers? You know, things like that, Um, I don’t have a lot of patients for So I’m grateful that there are people who enjoy doing it. And I love campaigns. You know, Those are my focus areas with my practices, events and campaigns. And I happen to specialize in anniversary campaigns that culminate in an event. So, you know that marries those two things at the anniversary of the anniversary, as you’re doing with wood should be celebrated over a long over over a long period, right? Plan these things in advance? Yes, I mean, one night, like a one night thing. 40th 40th anniversary night. And then it should be multiple activities right through a year. Exactly. Ah, And so it is the 40th anniversary year. That’s why we’re starting in 2019. It’s the year and then it’ll culminate next year, and there are lots of things planned. So we have. We’ll have our woman of achievement luncheon again next May and ah, then we’ll have the celebration in January. But everything this year, You know, we have thematic concepts across a year. A lot of the time this past year was women in philanthropy, and this coming year is gonna be focused upon being around for four decades and what would has meant to the fund-raising field. And, Ah, and where it goes from here, what has meant a lot to women in the field. We have some real pioneers, um, many of whom are still around and still supportive of the organization, and we’re really appreciative of them. Got shot. A couple of them. Oh, see? And I’m like, I know I will, but, you know, I’m not really somebody out. Right? And then you’ll feel better me do that disclaimer. But I am that type of person that loves to give people individual attention. And then I’m like, Oh, wait. Next week on your show, you mention these names. You’re about the best in-kind. I put her on the spot. So she did not come prepared, but name some pioneers who were members of wood. Uh, Linda Hartley. Okay. I know her. She’s been on the show. Yeah. When she came out with her book When this amazing, Um, Shirley Jenks, who you also know surely very well done. Some work with our Shirley Jenks in J e n ks dahna in here in the city? Yes, argast. Holman has a past president. More group. She says she has a relationship with Nebraska to OK, she’s on the board of the university and rescue. Um, we have a current boardmember who just co chaired, uh, the woman of achievement luncheon this past year. Jane. Carlinhos, A beautiful person. Uh, and then Oh, my God. See, now, I don’t know Susan Yulin. You know Susan Ulan Koshi. I know my favorite people on the planet. I think I know her name. They recognized? Yes. Um, but just generally for non-profits, too. Planning in advance of your upcoming anniversary. You know, if it’s your 50th year or some organizations you know, 125th year, you want to start planning that a couple of years in advance, whether there’s gonna be what’s it gonna be is gonna be a fundraising campaign or it doesn’t have to be, But it’s a good hook. Well, for whatever it’s gonna be, you should start planning out of major anniversaries, I think two years in advance or so That’s a good time line. Yeah. Gives you timeto think ahead and be creative. Maximum advantage of eggs out of a big news hook. I’m a piecemeal er by nature. You won’t really see me dive into something and complete it all at once. I like to be ableto work on it and take a step back. Go back to it. Have the daily experience of your life in form some of the decisions that you make. You know, you keep living life and things happening. You’re like, you know, I’ll go back to this and maybe I’ll try it this way. So, um, so what is definitely We’ve been planning ahead and we’re excited. It’s a life practice. It is piecemeal. You say piecemeal. I would say life, it’s a life practice. Come back to things. Um okay, Um let’s, uh let’s take our break. And when we come back, I want to talk a little about your experience as a black woman and fund-raising and ah, survey that we have, um so hang on there. Okay, great. All right. Thank you. Don’t walk out. Um Where are we now? It’s Tony’s steak. You know we need to take a break. Were Wagner CPS because they’ve got a webinar coming up, it’s on July 11th. Engaged and effective, not for-profit governance. All right, so this firm is auditors, so they know all about governance. How is yours? Doesn’t measure up. Are you getting the most out of the expertise and the creativity of your board members? You sign up at wagner cps dot com. Click Resource is That’s on July 11th. Now time for Tony’s Take Two Hello from Boise, Idaho. I was just there for a long weekend, visiting dear friends. Um, and I recommend Boise on. By the way, it’s Boise, Boise. I mean, you don’t know this boy, See, but it’s not Boise for you East Coasters. It’s Boise, Boise, Idaho. I learned just like it’s Oregon. Not Oregon. No ive the Oregon at the end of Oregon. Um, that little bit of a digression. So, Boise. What about it? It’s got mountains, beautiful mountain range, snowcapped mountains in the winter and the spring, even when the temperature is is more modest. Down below that beautiful, snow capped mountains, they take their beers very seriously. 16 brew houses in Boise. Now, I did not get to sample all the monument to a couple. I can shout out Powder powerhouse, a jus powerhouse. Very nice place. Um, 10 barrel, which happens to be downtown. Those air to that we went to there was 1/3 1 I can’t remember. They also take their food very seriously. If you go downtown around where Around where? 10 barrel is 8th 8th Street and Main Street. Lots of restaurants and other brewpubs and and, um, breweries not serving food. Right along eighth and main. Lots of serious restaurants there. And now I don’t mean serious, upscale. Just very good food. Reminds me of Portland a lot. In that respect, they take this food very seriously. Um, what else about Boise? Oh, just drive 10 minutes. 15 minutes. You’re out. You’re way out of the city. We visited a winery. So, um, I’m recommending Boise has ah travel destination, and there’s more in my video. Um, and you will find that at tony martignetti dot com. And that is Tony. Take two. Now, let’s Ah, let’s continue a little more with Yolanda F. Johnson and, uh, opera singer the fundraiser. Whoa! Look at the bursting. Oh, man. When we get the live lister love, we’re bursting. But we’re not doing that now, okay? Bursting. That means there’s a lot of bursting with life listeners. And we’re on Facebook live too. Oh, I guess I should do is I’ll shout out All right. Aunt Mary and Mary Bob Largent. Hello, Rose mary-jo video. Love to see you. Thank you for being with us on Facebook. Give us give us a little give us a little love on Facebook and I’ll be happy to shut you out. All right, So, um, s O The power in non-profits is maintained by white men. They’re they’re overwhelmingly the board chairs, the board leadership, the CEOs, the C suite, uh, senior fundraisers. What’s been your your experience as a black woman doing fund-raising in that culture? Well, coming from Nebraska, how’s it going? And, uh, it’s interesting that it is a national issue, is it not? You know, no matter where you are, even in a place as diverse as New York City, that’s still our reality. And, uh, it’s obvious that, uh, philanthropy would do well from continuing diversity in my experience as an African American woman in the field. You know, You know, this year we did a diversity. Brooke and I did a diversity and inclusion task force for wood because we were looking at the room and amazing women. Um, but the room could be a bit more diverse, you know? And so we wanted to You think about that. And one of the first questions was, you know, is the field already diverse? Does it exist that way? It’s just that people may not, um, come out and aren’t. It is necessarily feeling is welcome for whatever reason, or, um, are they just not there? And so, because of some of these studies that have come out recently, I was I spoke a case conference on diverse diversity and fund-raising in Indianapolis in April. And that was one of the things we talked about Is diversifying that pipeline for fundraisers because you don’t necessarily see yourself. Did you have you come to any conclusions whether it’s there, there are there is greater representation in fund-raising, But people are not coming out or there just isn’t the representation that we’d like to see. Both. Okay. Yeah. I think there was more the ladder that just not just not reply. It’s about your It’s both because we have to make those efforts toward diversifying the pipeline. We have to look to the future. We have to look to see what’s happening now. We have to stay self aware and just aware in the profession. Um, and that’s the thing. You know, inclusion is the exact opposite of tokenism. So sure inclusion means that you’re naturally, organically there. You’re appreciated for what you’re bringing to the table, and when you don’t see diversity, sometimes that doesn’t come to mind. So one of the things wit is gonna dio is really focus on that this coming year. And, ah, just make sure it’s on our mind, You know, if you have an opportunity to invite a speaker or toe work with different people in partners, Um, is there someone who’s just disqualified who may be a little more diverse? Um, thinking fairly, you know, they’re just disqualified again. Like I say, it’s not tokenism, but just making sure that’s on your mind, because when something’s not on your mind, it’s, um it doesn’t exist. Okay, right. So, consciousness awareness consciousness, Yes, Critical first step, but necessary, but not sufficient. You know, they need to be action. They need to be conscious. Action? Yes, not just policies, not just tokenism. Yes, I’m outcome oriented person. So I believe in the process. But I’m not interested in staying stuck there. So we have some definite recommendations that our task force is made to the board of directors that we’re gonna be implementing in the in the coming year. And so just tow elaborate a bit on my answer to your question. So, yes, there are fundraisers of color in the field, but as the cause effective study shows, you know, Yeah, um, mentor ship professional development, because you know that we’re still underrepresented. There’s more work to be done to get those, you know, professionals of color, all of the support that they need to survive into thrive and at the same time, work to be done to develop that pipeline so that we continue that into the future with great consciousness and in being intentional about it. I know that I personally have been paying more attention to this just within the past two years or so, so but I don’t know if that’s s Oh, I see. So I see more conversations about this, but I don’t know if that’s because I’m participating. Maura. Maura, I’m thinking about it more. All right. Walk. I won’t, um, Or if the conversations really are happening more frequently and there is greater awareness than there was three years ago. Do you? What’s your sense of you? Do you think? Do you think there’s, uh, not not saying sufficient awareness or or action? But you feel like there’s more activity around diversity equity and inclusion now than there was just like three years ago? I do, yes, and strategically. So you know, I’m a strategic thinker. Meaning what? Uh, there’s been a lot that’s been going on for the past few years, but now people are really buckling down their understanding, those exact facts and figures and metrics that they want to capture. And then we’re talking to each other more about how to move that forward. There was a great event, um, a week or so ago on June 18th and was held at the end of the CP and we there’s a committee, a host committee. Ah, I was on it, um, one of the lead researchers for the study was on it, Um, the A f p person who’s involved with their idea programming, Um, people from case. It was a pretty good host committee of us. And I’m sorry if I’m forgetting anyone and then on a barber barber as well who’s ah, noted phenomenal fundraiser. We all got together to get the fundraisers of color together in New York City. And, you know, it was interesting because honest it to me. We’ve been doing this in D. C forever. I can’t believe, you know, like, it’s interesting that New York hadn’t done it yet. And so we did. We got it done. We got together, um, divided. We fall united, we stand, and so we’re aware of each other more aware of each other. Now, instead of being siloed and in a vacuum of ourselves, for whatever reason, we can come together and work together and push everything forward, move the needle. Yeah, well, that moves that leads to empowerment, thinks that we’re working together. Okay, Um so now your your personal experience as ah, as a fundraiser, you feel like that’s ah anomalous for an African American woman? Um, somewhat I you know, I’ll give the greatest shot out of all to a woman named Lori Cronan from would be remiss if I didn’t mention her name. Ah jokingly call her my would mom. Sometimes she really brought me in to the organization and and introduced me to so many different things and people that have to do with fund-raising. But it takes a village, no matter what the color that transcends color lines. It takes a village of people sometimes to pull you up to support you, to help you get that professional development and to help you move forward and to encourage you. Um, it’s something that’s on my mind for young women of color, of course, in the field, something that personally is important to me because I think it does make a difference when you see someone who looks like you, just like, um, not on Lee within the field. But even within your organizations, you know, um, that kind of had gone over my head at first, and then I had a boardmember. Mentioned that to me where I used to work and they said, You know, a lot of these kids are seeing you and it makes a difference because they think that the executive offices are like the big bosses in the office is up there in the executive director and all that and the fund raisers and philanthropy. That’s a whole other issue within it, you know? Do they really understand that this is a viable profession for them? You know, first, the profession had to get the respected deserved. Yeah, And then because, you know, we work hard and we’re educated in this, and a lot of us have degrees that air focused upon this. We’ve studied the science of fund-raising, and it should be fully respected. It used to be thinking that this is the first event planners, right? They’re just out. There have been so many slapping backs holding her hand out, and it just comes It’s like, No, no, no, no. We work very hard. Um, and so you have to have that first. And now we have to diversify. And we have to really consider all of the different issues within the field. Um, the woman who you, uh, said you’d be remiss Lauria, who gave you a guidance coach mentor? Is that a white woman? It is okay. Happens to be yes, but I had, um, some really wonderful African American women obviously, uh, who have been integral to my life. I had, you know, a good balance, but, um, it’s sharing the power sharing the power of Orden. It’s important to have role models and mentors of whatever ethnicity, nationality? Yeah, we all have to work together because if you’re there and if things are imbalanced in the first place than if white males are really, you know, at the pinnacle of power, then you know. And what role do white females have? Our females of whatever color. But you have to reach back, and you have to help people. Yeah, That’s why I say I share the power. Yeah. Um okay. Um, so you’ve had a, uh you’ve been fortunate, and you’re and you’re very blasting. Obviously grateful. And I want to do everything I can for all of the president of Wood. Now you can lift up others. Yeah, um, and they’ll see ah, black woman in power at will. Yeah, that’s me. And I think that makes yeah, it makes a difference. Let’s talk a little about the this cause effective study Okay. This is, uh, money, power and race. The lived experience of fundraisers of color. Um, are you familiar with what they did? I mean, there’s speak to what they did, what the process was. Just interviews, et cetera. They did, Ah, lot of indepth work. Judy and Cynthia, if you’re listening, this is the shout out to you that the executive director of cause Effective and Cynthia bradrick, who did a lot of work on that, and she actually engaged me. I was interviewed for this. They worked very hard at getting a diverse array of professionals of color to answer and to participate in the survey. I was, ah, reader at the end as well. Um, another wonderful person soon. Ill omen. Um, I know he was a swell with They have p and, ah, I’m very happy for them. I’m very proud of them. Of the work that they’ve done. This is a very important study, and I think it’s gonna be helpful. Helpful tool if we don’t set it away, You know, you have to keep these things out and keep remembering. Like the strategic plan that goes on cause effective is a terrific organization. We’ve had guests on. Um, Greg Cohen comes to mind. He’s been on a couple times. And then someone who, Uh oh, now I feel bad. Someone who retired out of cause effective. She’s Greg Coin’s neighbor in Brooklyn because I was out there. I was at their summer party line last year, and they shared. There was a back shared backyard thing. Um, it’s not. It wasn’t Judy, though. I feel terrible now. She’s retired, so she probably doesn’t listen. Well, nobody listens to this show. E thought you 30,000 with Yeah, well, you just told me we’re interesting. We’ll fake it to make it figured to make it that way. Um, okay, let’s take our let’s take our very last break, okay? And then we’ll talk more about the more about the survey. Okay, study text to give. They’re five part email. Many course dispels myths around mobile giving. These do not have to be small. Gif ts. They can easily be gift in the hundreds. The donations do not have to go through the donor’s phone company. That’s a that’s a common practice that need not be because the phone companies typically put a cap on the gifts. You don’t have to go through phone companies. You want to get the email? Many course over five days. You text NPR November Papa Romeo. I didn’t say that. Quite right. My Air Force days November Papa Romeo, not Papa Thio Text NPR to 444994499 All right, now we got to do the live listener love Steve Cook give you a shout out on Facebook Steve Cook joined us on Facebook And, um, let’s start abroad. There’s just so many I’m not even gonna use. The language is like annual haserot Comes comes a ham, Nida, etcetera. We’re just gonna go through where everybody is. Seoul, South Korea, Denmark, Jakarta, Indonesia. Tashkent, Uzbekistan Who you’ve been with us before? His Pakistan is not the first time. Not every week. Try to make it a little more regular. There was Becker. Stan, would you please try to be? You should be with us every single week, but no live. Listen. Love to Tashkent. Hoochie Minh City in Vietnam. Um, Porto Alegre, Brazil Whoa! Tehran, Iran. Tehran has been with us before. Yes, not the first time. Glad to have you back Live love to Tehran. on to Toronto, Canada. And now we made it to North America. So let it’s bring in, uh, New York, New York. Three people. We got multiple listeners. Looks like three while ago. Right here in the city of New York. Gillette, New Jersey. We’ve got Brooklyn, New York, in We’ve got Clifton New Jersey Wallkill New York. Woodhaven, New York. Bellmore, New York. All right, Staten Island. Staten Island is in Yes. Welcome Staten Island. Live love to Staten Island. So who’s not with us? Bronx and Queens Chicken. Maybe they’re maybe they’re masked. You know what? They could be masked. I’m sure that I’m sure Bronx and Queens are with us. So live listener, love, live love to you. Thank you so much for being with us. And for those of us on fate those of us those of you with us on Facebook live love to you as well. And the podcast pleasantries to the to the over 13,000 that I keep saying it’s nowhere near that, but, uh, no, we have 13th out over that thing. 1000 podcast listeners. Um, listening in the time shift. Wherever you squeeze us in on the weekends, you binge Listen, you spend Sunday listening to hours of podcasts on end Thank you. Pleasantries to you. I’m glad that we’re in your podcast library. Pleasantries to the podcast listeners. That’s one of my It’s almost like a therapy. Oh, it’s almost like the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, the pleasant pleasantries to the podcast Listeners podcast pleasantries and lively sabelo I’m a big fan of ah, big fan of Ah, liberation Liberation, What did you what was the little phrase you just said? But but But the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue Yes. Is that a little exercise right before you go on stage, isn’t just tow annunciated like a said native speakers of English. Sometimes when you’re, uh, enunciating on stage, it could be difficult to decipher what they’re saying. And so, ah, lot of dip bungs going on and what we think is overdoing it. But that’s what it takes for the audience to actually hear what we’re saying. It does the lips, the teeth, the tip of dung. Okay, what do you do right before you go on performance? Right the minute before your first appearance on stage. What do you doing As a singer? As a singer, I meant as a as a Well, I guess there’s any kind of performer. What are you doing in that last minute? Um, I’m saying a little prayer, okay? And I’m getting excited because I’m ready to share this with the audience. Your blood pressure’s a little high, right? Sometimes, but not really. Yeah, I’m pretty Chill. I’m I’m ready to go do it If I’m prepared that I said I will never be that person backstage like, Oh, my gosh. I know I didn’t read any of this stuff, but I sure hope it goes okay, that’s bad. Terrible. Um, and so I just It is what it is at that moment, right? And so I just get excited and go out and share it. All right. Well, thank you for sure. Well, prayer to yes. Definitely prayer before. Um, Okay, So the cost effective study was was it was interviews. They were surveys. Lots of personal interviews. Yes. Yeah. People of color. Remember to stay close to Yeah, there we go. Okay. We won’t hear everything that you say. Um, so they learned some things. Um, why d I is important. This is interesting that you’ve mentioned earlier. We’d said we’d had a diversity and inclusion task force Didn’t include, uh um quit equity. Uh, it’s the i d. I Doesn’t matter. I mean, we’re shortchanging people cause you didn’t include the e’s. No, not at all. I guess it could have been a debt if, but it’s a d t i f. Um, the equity is inferred in that. It’s just that it’s not called a d. I think, and people have different thoughts and opinions on what each word means. You know, some people don’t like diversity as much anymore, and they rather focus on equity. Yeah, I’ve heard. Yeah. Alright. It’s like LGBT Q plus. Now we put the plus until right? It’s all inclusive. Yeah, If you’re not LGBT or cute, you’ll have to just be in the plus. Okay. What did you say before? D t d t f d I t f diversity and inclusion Task force. Okay, we have jargon jail on non-profit radio. I hate to sound imprisoned even for a short in for a short term. Um, so we know, I think we know why it matters. Um, you know, interesting Make making explicit that money is power. And for fundraisers of color, you know, they’re they’re seeking money from the people who have it, which are largely white and male. So that’s a that creates a dynamic for fundraisers of color that, um, white fundraisers don’t have toe. Sort of we’ll deal with overcome, depending on the opinions of the people trying to get the money from well, and I want to add to that whole diversity discussion Donors of color, you know, they’re out there donorsearch and tapping into them, you know, just like we have toe ah, work on the pipeline. We have to support people who are already in the field, and we have to think outside of the box. And remember everyone who’s been blessed with, um, the ability to be a philanthropist. And what does that even mean? Now, you know, when you I think that it’s so pie in the sky, but it’s not. It’s right in front of you to be a philanthropist in many ways. You know, the Indiana University Women’s Philanthropy Institute. We had a partnership event with them in May, where they revealed Some of the women give study and, you know, adult into, you know, how do you define being a philanthropist? So we have philanthropists of color that need to be tapped into as well that are, um, Kim be called ignored. Sometimes I think you find that you feel like we’re not reach The community is not reaching out donors of color wealth, wealthy folks of color. I think it’s a complex issue, but I think I could say yes to that in some ways. Um, but remember that a donor of color, um, we’ll also have probably had advert in life experiences as well. So, you know, it’s We’ll all have. Yes. Okay. I feel like we’re not We’re not We’re not getting it. So I’m surprised that that you find that, uh, because if we’re if we’re trying to get support for our organization, I mean it auto come from anybody who has the means. Exactly the means to support us. Yes. Money is color blind. Amen to that. Um, okay, that’s an interesting insight. I never I have to think more about that. Pay more attention that I’ve never I’ve never thought about that. All right, um you’re full of good ideas. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Ah. Okay. Um, So I think we understand why the d ay matters like we’ve flush that out. So? So some of what they they say something interesting. Fund-raising reflects and magnifies the racial hierarchies of our culture. That’s sort of what was scratching out, right? You know, um, it’s a you know, fund-raising is there’s just inherent, irrespective of people’s color. Uh, there’s It’s a fundamental power subservient relationship. You have money, and I’m asking for it, right? I mean, I do fund-raising, I do plan e-giving fund-raising. People of wealth have money and number. I’m pursuing it. So there’s your definitely pursuing people that have a certain amount of Yeah. Yeah. Well, now, modest people of modest means could do plan. Gift to That’s true. Let’s not forget, Okay? Actually, west, like anybody could put will request for 1000 or $5000 in there, will probably And that goes to the same point of What does it mean to be a philanthropist? You know, if you’re giving $500 whatever you have to give, you’re still helping a cause. It matters a lot of people don’t think of themselves as philanthropists, but they’ve indeed they are. It doesn’t really matter. I mean, they’re supporting organizations. But people who write $20 checks, $50 checks, they don’t they don’t think of themselves as philanthropists. And I think that’s what I used trying to get people to think differently, especially with women. Donors toe value yourself and to understand that contribution that you’re making to society through whatever the size well, they understand they’re contributing. What what’s the importance of? You could educate me again. So I’m trainable. Just any ideas? What? What? What’s the importance then of them recognizing themselves as philanthropists? Because it empowers you in a different way. When I see myself a certain way, um, it allows me toe think differently. And when I’m making those decisions, ah, it might allow me toe to get involved with an organization on a deeper level. Ah, and bring in my network. You know, we could talk about give and get so it can. It can open lots of different doors and just change the way that people think about themselves and about the ways that they give, so we should be encouraging our donors to think of themselves as philanthropists. Yeah, including the 20 and $50 donors. Yes, you’re a philanthropist. And we appreciate your gift and that. Well, there’s always that. Yeah, I’m just trying to distinguish the philantech. Think of yourself as a philanthropy. Yes. And then, you know, it’s that strategic thinking. So And, you know, it’s that same story of the whoever it is the janitor or somebody who passes away and leaves $5,000,000. A very modest life. There’s a 40 year old car they were driving or whatever, and then they have millions of dollars to leave him. You never know you can you never. You can’t judge a book by its cover. And so you never know what’s going on. You treat everybody with dignity and respect and appreciate their gift. And you never know what network they might bring in our, um, people they can introduce you to. Yeah, that’s all true. Yeah, it’s just a philanthropist thing. Getting getting your modest donors small dollar donors to think of themselves as philanthropists. Interesting. Ok, um all right, so this is the, uh, kruckel about the magnifying, the racial hierarchies, and we just have a couple minutes left. All right, so let’s leave the survey. That’s enough of that survey. It was a great service. So again, it’s money, power and race. The lived it experience of fundraisers of color. It’s published by cause effective, which is, I believe it’s called effective dot or GE. And now that you have the name of the survey study, you should have no trouble. Obviously finding it on dhe. Check it out. Okay, Um, a couple minutes left as, ah, professional woman in fund-raising your own practice. What would you like to, uh, would you like to leave our listeners with? Well, um, I just like to reiterate how honored I am to be leading within this 40th anniversary year. I’m excited about continuing the work of my practice. We already talked a bit about events, and I also specialize in campaigns and in going in and assessing what’s happening with small and medium sized development departments and helping them to get to the next level. So I look forward to continuing all of that work. Um, and I also look forward to continuing singing have a vocal workshop coming up in a couple of weeks And then, of course, the consul again. Yes, I mentioned right argast. 10. Where is that? In Yonkers, at the amphitheater at the Hudson River Museum. And it’s gonna be It’s deep, you know, using music, using art as that medium to spark the dialogue, the conversation, the thought about these current issues you cannot make the You can’t make this up, though The libretto has not been changed its 70 years old, and it could have been on the news last week. Really, it’s fascinating. Where when does it wins the opening? It’s a one night only thing. It’s August 10th 8 p.m. August 10 2019. Yes, if you’re in the New York City area, check yolanda johnson dot com. All right, that’s who she is. She’s Yolanda Johnson. Her company is Y F J Eyes Cos. At Y f. J hyphen consulting dot com. Women in development you’ll find at W I d n Y dot or GE. And she is at Yolanda F. Johnson and thank you so much. Thank you. This is a pleasure. My privilege. Next week, there’s no show. I hope you enjoy your holiday time off whichever day or days it is somewhat, officers seem to be having trouble like, do we give them the Thursday off and then make them come in Friday and then Saturday, Sunday off. Do we give them Thursday and then make them coming Saturday? Whatever Hope you have some time off, you certainly have the Thursday off anyway. Enjoy will catch up with you on Uh oh, that was a good breath. We’ll catch up with you again on July 12th. If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you, find it on tony. Martignetti dot com were sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits, data driven and technology enabled. Tony dot m a slash pursuant Capital P by Wagner c. P A. Is guiding you beyond the numbers. Regular cps dot com and by text to give mobile donations. Made Easy text. NPR to 444999 Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer. Shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our Web guy, and this music is by Scott Steiner, Brooklyn, New York, With me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You’re listening to the Talking Alternative Network. Are you stuck in a rut? Negative thoughts, feelings and conversations got you down. Hi, I’m nor in Sumpter potentially ater. 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