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Maryanne Dersch: Courageous Communication
Maryanne Dersch says your nonprofit may be codependent and it’s stifling your communications. Are you afraid to stand out? Do you prefer middle-of-the road content to driving on the sidewalk? She may be right. She’s the author of the book, “Courageous Communication.”
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Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.
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Hello and welcome to Tony Martignetti Non-profit Radio Big Non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. My friend the Scarecrow just got a promotion. She’s outstanding in her field. I just heard that today I got I stole that from a bank. A za bank joke. Um, I’m glad you’re with me because I’d be thrown into trauma nap. Tia, if I had to breathe while you told me you missed today’s show Courageous communication Mary and er sh says you’re non-profit maybe co dependent and it’s stifling your communications. Are you afraid to stand out? Do you prefer middle of the road content to driving on the sidewalk? Occasionally she may be right. She’s the author of the book Courageous Communication on Tony’s Take two Insider yet responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled. Tony Dahna slash pursuant by Wagner CPS guiding you beyond the numbers weinger cps dot com Bye. Tell us turning credit card processing into your passive revenue stream. Tony dahna slash Tony Tell us and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four, four nine nine nine What a pleasure to welcome Mary Anderson to the studio from St Louis. XI is founder of Courageous Communication. She works with Non-profits to move from operating out of fear and scarcity to confidence and abundance. So they attract like minded donors and raise more money. She’s author of the book Courageous Communication. How Co dependence Is Making your Non-profit brand Boring and what to do about it. Marianne has a shoe fetish, a diet Coke fetish. And she sings karaoke E, which I call Carrie. Hokey. Ah, you’ll find her, her company, her book and her fetishes at marianne. Derschau dot com. And she’s at Marianne Derschau. Welcome to the studio. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. We’re gonna talk about coke and shoes and all kinds of thank you for coming in from St Louis. Thank you. I’m glad I made it. Yes. Your seven hours delayed yesterday. Yes. You got a lot of purple going on? Yes. Kruckel, hair, lips, nails. Yes. Okay. I just I just goingto embody my brand. That’s right. Live the brand for sure. Yes. You’ve got to be courageous. So Okay, um, co dependence you feel that organizations, maybe a little co dependent and you wanted to move away from that, Teo Courage. Yes. And I actually the thought of this concept in the therapist office when we were talking about co dependence, which the simple definition is when you subvert your needs for the needs of others. Right. So you’re not doing what’s right for you because you’re too busy doing what’s right for others. And so it’s that weight that we can’t be kind giving people. It’s just when that when we are subverting our needs, which builds resentment right in our personal lives. So I was looking at that as an organizational issue. I’m thinking, Wow, a lot of my clients are subverting their needs for the needs of their donors, right? So they are not doing and saying what would be right? Because they’re afraid of someone might what someone might think, right. So it’s all way they’re focusing on the loss, not the wind. So that’s when you talked about moving from fear and scarcity. So that is a lot of that Ideas like, if we say or do something wrong, something bad is gonna happen. We have to like Speaker act a certain way because we want to appeal to, you know, this group of people and that’s usually around around money. Okay. Okay. All right. And, uh, your therapist? No background? No, no. I was in therapy. I have a team of mental health professionals. You guide me through my, my, my actual therapist, actually just told me I should cut back to wait. Go back to five days a week now. So? So I’m getting I’m not After eighteen years, right? Things were getting better. Yeah. Um, All right, So what is this courageous communication? You know, of course we have the hour, right? So don’t go into Don’t go in there. Right detail, But just give us overviewing. What is this Courageous communication? So courageous communication is about not worrying about the people who don’t like you, but focusing on the like minded folks who share your heart in your mission and attracting them to you. So that is the simplest explanation. Don’t worry about the critics. Focus on the folks who have an affinity for what you d’oh. Okay, okay. You also encourage needing less praise. Please don’t be so needy. So the idea is level the purple in-kind together talking her hands are flailing hyre lips, and that’s amazing Hope. The Olan song. Yes, so right, so praise and criticism. So so again. One day I’m in my therapist’s office and and I was talking about how someone had criticized made a criticism and because I’m oh mirriam, you’re always in the spotlight or something and and then where other people would praise me for that same like skill are, you know and tendency. And she said, Well, Mary, and that’s just other people’s opinions of you and and it shouldn’t and they’re both the same thing. Praise and criticism are the same. They’re just other people’s opinions of you. And I’m like, Okay, well, that’s ridiculous, because Treyz feels really good and criticism feels really bad. And she said, A whole person really can manage praising criticism, right? So you don’t need praise to feel good, and criticism doesn’t derail you. Although one feels good and one hurts, you’re still going to be a whole person, like moving your way like through your life. And at that moment, I thought, Oh, my gosh, my clients are overly dependent on praise and terrified of criticism. And even if you meet people like that in person who are, like, very needy for praise their kind of exhaust sing right, and then it forms this sense of inauthenticity. So relationships reform with people and organizations are made of people, and we want to have an authentic relationship. And so when we’re when we need a lot of praise and are terrified of criticism, of course we send these messages that seem inauthentic, right and were afraid to like Show the true, the true truth of like who we are and what our organization is. And and so we think that that that’s super shiny, perfect image is what attracts people. But that doesn’t attract people. What attracts people is the real n’est, like they want to know who you really are and how they can help you with your struggles and the wins and the losses. And and all of that, just like we want to know from each other, you say You say have a point of view, right? And don’t be ashamed of that, right? Right. And people who have a similar point of view will be attracted to you. Yes, and those who do not will criticize or depart. And that’s not bad. Yes, because you want more of the people who share your point of view and fewer of the people who don’t exactly like the like the You don’t call yourself this, but like I’m doing it for you, you know non-profit therapist? Yes. Right. Yes. You’re you’re You’re encouraging this cognitive behavioral dahna scheme for non-profits right to use an organizational level. Okay, um, be strong. You say, You know, this is another thing. You saying the book be strong, be strong in your message and easy to find, right? So because the ideas create a brand of attraction to attract like minded people. And so if those people see that you’re standing up for the causes and the issues that they have an affinity for, that’s going to attract them to you. And then when you’re easy to find that helps you attract, attract those people. So if I have, you know, a desire to help a certain calls or issue and I’m looking for that, I can find someone who does that and then build build a relationship with that organization. Okay, we’re gonna take our first break, okay? And I want to say that when we come back, We’ll talk about how this is all very personal to you and not only the therapy, but you got some other things going on that that are interesting and and a little provocative. I will bear myself. Yeah, you in the book. So you read the book for detail, or you can hang out here and get get the Cliff notes version. Well, not really Cliff notes. I mean, we’re on for an hour. That’s not right. Get the get the audio version. That’s what I mean to say that this is the audio version of her book pursuing. They have a new free E book, which is the art of First Impressions. You need more donors. The Art of First Impressions. The book is about donor. It has the six guiding principles of ineffective acquisition strategy. It has how to identify your unique value and use it to attract people like Mary and I were talking about plus creative tips. You’ll get it at tony dot m a slash pursuant capital p for Please remember that. All right, let’s go back to creative communications. So you’re relaxed. You’re a burlesque dancer. You were You’re unashamed unashamed about the shoes, the platform shoes. That you? Yes. So you are. You know, you make those other things, You’re out there and you’re attracting people. How are similarly minded? Yes. And you’re not upset when people are, I guess put off. I don’t know if people are put off. Everybody in the world I don’t know. I guess I just don’t get carried away. All right, But you’re you’re out there for your own, for you’re in your own brand. You’re practicing. What, you Yes, yes. And my company to it is built on the same principles of a brand of attraction, right? And really connecting with with like minded organisations. And so it’s It’s less about worrying about trying to convince people you know it. It’s hard to change what’s in people’s hearts, right? We all we all have our philanthropic heart. We all have what’s in our hearts. So what’s in my heart and who I am? And so it’s hard to convince people of the worth of your organization. It’s hard to convince people that I look for like minded people, right? And your work. You probably do, too, and I publish a podcast. Right producer podcast and people who enjoy it will come to it. Yes. And so it’s this idea of of working less to convince people of your worth and that just attracting the like minded people. Teo, tell me about the burlesque. Well, that’s so I mean, I mean, what I call a midlife adventure, so I know why. Wouldn’t know. There’s nothing to be going crazy. Whoever heard of a good life eventually? Well, that’s what I call it on. DA. You know, I’m fifty three. It just turned fifty three, so And I just decided that you know her, so out about their age, you know? I love that. Well, why Why would I? Because I don’t know why, but lots of women are coy about Yeah. So fifty three three very. And that’s when you’re supposed to say, Oh, my God, you look great in here. You look amazing. That’s what you’re supposed to say, right? OK, thanks. So I just decided that I was feeling really confident. Like, I think women in their fifties. It’s a really great time. And you you feel like, really confident. Like I don’t care what anybody thinks. I’m doing what I want. It’s Sometimes I call it like your second act like after the kids are a little older and whatever you can go do. And I just decided, you know, this idea of feeling really confident about your body and and your sexuality and who you are. And in burlesque, the beautiful thing about it is the key. Everybody is welcome and everybody is beautiful, right? So big bodies, little bodies. We celebrate our curves and giggles. There’s trans bodies, you know, there’s one of the guys in my class is Ah ah did burlesque in drag. So, like any, you know any who any person you are is worthy of celebration. And so in a lot of times women, we get the message to, like, you know, like, whatever you are is not good enough, right? You have to like, Thanks. Put yourself in here and wrap yourself up. You know what I mean? There’s something about you that is unappealing. So in burlesque, it’s sort of like this idea of owning yourself. But also I did it for sort of command of myself and the stage. So as a speaker and trainer, you know, having command of your of your brain and your body, like in front of people, right? So learning I chose improv in stand up comedy, it But it’s a lot of the same skills, right? And understanding, like being in the moment, like being really in the moment and really selling something right. And so and it’s this idea of even though I was, like, terrified in my head, you know, I went out and what you just let go and just have fun and that that feeling of that intersection of fear and exhilaration that that’s that’s something that is that it is such a great feeling and and you know that, right? This stand up on the stage doing stand up there. The applause is over. It’s your audience. Are you going to make them laugh, right? Or are you Are you going to be embarrassed? Exactly. You got eight minutes go and and you just dive in. And And it is really about just being so present in that moment. And so that was the fun for me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for sure. Fifty three millions fifty three. How bad you’re about? Uh, okay, so, uh, s so let’s talk about some communications? Uh, more brand promises you want. You want tohave? You want us to have a Is it just one? We have a brand in order to have a brand promise or one brand problem. Grimm Press What’s a brand program promises the highest level of thinking that the highest level of experience. So ah, brand promises something A promise that you make to everyone your organization interacts with on And it’s not always stated, but it’s felt so. I used the example of, like, a target because everyone’s been to target. Right? And you know what? It feels like it and they you know, they’re brown brand promise, even though they don’t say it is like, you’re going to have a good experience here. You know, like for some women like targets or recreational activity, Right? We, like, walk around with our carts, bring kids. Yeah, Yeah, you push the kids around. When my my oldest child, when we adopted my oldest child, like and I was a nervous mom to a three year old, you know, I would just go through target because I like target, you know? So ah, and s o. So it’s this idea of that promise that we make Teo to everyone we interact with. And then once we figure what out what that is, then we can then that can distill into all our messaging and our talking points and how our organization looks and feels well or it’s a grand process could see. I was going to say, How is that different than a vision? But but vision is what you’re trying to achieve. Yes. Yes. This is your brain is about This is about what you’re going to get when you interact with us. So so I’ll give you an example. So there is a national organization called Oasis that works with older adults. And they do recreation activities, volunteer educational. So as people are, you know, nearing retirement, you know, finding the free time in their life. Okay, Now I’m going to really pursue my own interests or do what I want. You know, you would turn to Oasis for for further education, for volunteer opportunities of exercise. Right? And so when we looked at them and we said what? What are we really promising people? And it was this idea of ah young at heart. Right? So being young and violent and feeling like life is full of promises, like no matter what age you are. And so when we created that young at heart brand promise U S. O, then it’s like, Okay, now we’re going to look at okay. They remain message, which then became Oasis. Lifelong adventure. There’s no one. So here’s the thing no one wants to help label. Nobody likes labels like Millennials Don’t want to be called Millennials, right? Seniors don’t want to be called scene like people don’t like labels, right? And so we couldn’t say for seniors or, you know, so it was this idea of implying lifelong, which is throughout life and adventure. But the brand promise was really this idea of staying vital. And so when you looked at the color, the photography, you know how how the organization looked and felt how people interacted with that organization in person and in print online did that? Did that make that? Did that? Keep that promise right? So once you have that, that’s sort of this feeling that just works its way through everything you dio. And sometimes it’s like so known. It’s just it’s a thing that people don’t really talk about it Just obvious and evident. And some. But it’s always good to define what it is. Because then you could really look and say, Are we communicating? That, you know, is are we keeping that promise with every with every interaction that we that we have? That was life, life, long adventure? Yeah. This is Oasis that well, they’re brand promise. Was was this ideas being young at heart? Which lettuce to the tagline like lifelong adventure. Like your midlife adventure? Exactly. Like you recommend adventures to clients to have no life, e Yes. So Okay, I hadn’t drawn that parallel till you just said that. Yes. Oh, well, this is why some property for thirteen thousand? Yes, it’s unlike you could be a part of my mental health team. Time organic xero fee. I can’t afford me. I know I can’t afford my therapy five days a week now, but so hyre. Okay, I don’t know where I’m going with that, but so are so You have the brand promise, and then you have belief statements. Okay. Yes. They seem to Segway from Okay. So yeah, so from the brand promise. So this came about because a lot of heat would say to me. So I I want to appeal to this group. So butt And yet I what appealing to this group may mean like hurting the feelings of this group. And and we’re not sure what to say, you know, and how to keep all these, you know, different groups, you know, from not offending anyone. And so I was at a workshop, and this woman said to me, You know, I work with women’s health and some of the women in the group are that that that this organization serves are pro life, and some of them are pro choice, and there’s always, ah, you know, and and I’m all work. It’s this constant battle. Okay, so so in their head, there’s a battle, right? So it’s like, so these beliefs statements then allow us to say, Here’s what our organization believes. Here’s what we stand for and these are five to seven principles that we just don’t move off of, right. And so one of those beliefs statements could be we we work to include all you know, points of view around, you know, this issue, I said, you just state that you’re trying to do that, right? So that’s a belief that you have a belief that she had was We’re doing our best to accommodate the most diverse, you know, points of view possible around this issue. But isn’t that contrary? Teo. Courageous communication. What we said earlier about not being fearful of offending some people. So so you’re not. It’s not that you’re offending. You’re trying to make space for both these groups that were a part of this this organization. So it’s it’s this idea of, like, Yeah, and we might We might we might We might fall down on that everyone so out. But we’re doing our best to accommodate everyone. So this is not an organization that has to take a stand on on abortion, right? Whether with the organization, right? Right, right. This is organization that was working in maternal health. White like maternal health. So it’s like, So there’s route that and saying, There’s room for and we’re doing our best. So one of the organizations I worked with in St Louis is called Episcopal City Mission, and they serve kids in juvenile court custody. And so the idea of why your kids in court custody. What have they done? What? How? And then they’ve minister to them, it’s called a minute. They call it a ministry of presents. So they minister to the kids, their mentors and ministers to them. And so this idea of creating these beliefs, statements for them allowed them to say, Here’s what we believe about the children that we serve and about And it also allowed them to talk about their religious, the religious foundation around that. Because then these air this is what we believe we believe that no child is should be defined by the worst thing they’ve ever done, you know. And so when you hear things like that, like, okay, and no one argues, no one can argue with what you believe. This is just what we believe. And if it’s not for you, that’s OK. So And it’s It’s a very freeing way because this is what we believe in. And if something it like if something comes to in conflict with that, then you know well, that that’s that’s that’s This is something we just don’t move off. Yeah. How do you develop belief? That? What are you telling you? Talk with your hands. I I’m pulawski demolition. We say we can’t You can’t talk with your hands strapped down. Yeah, yeah, that’s what I like to have zoo meetings when I explain concepts. A lot of times I used my hands, you know, to describe things, so okay. All right. So my developing within your organization, how do you develop? So most of them are known, but not said so get them in writing, right? Exactly. Yeo. Yeah. Yeah. So more. Yes. So So it just really depends on the organization s o. We asked people. So when we asked people, like, what do you believe? You know what? What? What? What? What? People on the organisms staff and bored. And then from there, we distilled it down. So we got a lot of input and then distilled it down into, like, five or seven things. So But when I’m working with an organization, I’m hearing them as I go. So I’m sort of like already taking a mental inventory, you know, and and and and and listening to what they are because a lot of times they’re just they’re just known and they’re not written. And this one of my clients that it’s called there. They call it the values, their value statement. It’s police stated value statement. I mean, you can call it different words is still the same thing. Here’s the unassailable things that we believe in. Right. And then there were working on putting them, like in the in a very prominent, Like when you walk in, like, here’s what we believe, which I think is wonderful, right? Because it just grounds everybody into that. Okay, Okay, way. Don’t stray from these, so if we’re going to embark on courageous communication. Courageous. Well, courageously. Yes. We’re going to change some culture. Some thinking within the organization, right? Because most organizations are middle of the road. You know, there’s safer. We’re not goingto for the reasons that we talked about, you know, they don’t want to. Ah, I don’t want to be provocative in their communication. Yes, maybe not. Take a stand or take a week or stand. So how are we going to get changed? You have some ideas in the book about changing culture. Tto make this shift correct. So non-profit culture is fundamentally risk averse. I think the board structure is the board structure. Like they’re in their mission to be like, Let’s not ruin this, right. No problem. I’ve been on the boards before. It’s like, Please don’t let let this organization die under my watch. Right? Right, right. All right. Like that was shot that Do you know those hos do no harm? Right? So So the idea is to switch from this idea of fear and scarcity. So I’m constantly scanning and thinking about what could go wrong to thinking about what could go. Right. So an idea of living in confidence in abundance and so how that happens is really from I work with organizations on on all levels, so I can’t just create cultural change through one person. So what I was doing before was like I could teach you how to write better Web content, or I can teach you howto have a more engaging brand. But if you don’t have the culture that supports that, that’s not that’s not gonna work. So typically it’s working with, you know, board and executive director at that level to embrace this idea of that, you’re going to go a lot farther. Ah, latto faster and achieved more success when we adopt the principles of of abundance, right and so and it’s and that’s calling Teo to the front. So here’s like, Here’s when we did take a risk and it paid off, right? So so because I think organizations, they’re doing this already there, just not giving themselves credit for it. So a lot of times it’s just like helping them understand. You’re kind of already doing this. We’re just going to do this in a way that’s really deliver it and the idea of and showing them the numbers of of, you know, how it. It takes a lot of time and a lot of money, Teo, to convince people of something rather than create, like fighting those likeminded people and attracted them to you. And it’s about relieving yourself of not at casting that really wide net of having to appeal to everyone. You know, Because what if What if we miss this dollar? What if we miss this? Don’t you know what? But I know I understand that. Yeah, but I want to get to that house too. Okay, So one of the things our first remind listeners we had a show called buy-in bitches. There were two women. Yeah, we’re who talked about who talked about getting buy-in that there was around it and technology project, But But you could listen back to that show because they had a lot of good ideas that are that go beyond just tech projects. Cool. Forgetting buy-in from from your boss from your CEO. Buy-in bitches. Okay, I’m sure if you go to twenty martignetti dot com and you start the word bitches, that’s that show, that’s so we’ll make itself apparent like those ladies. Alright, i e I love them too. We did that on the show just is organic. We You know, we don’t come up with the name we need to come up with a name of one of them Said we could be buy-in. I said we needed a liberation, was close and she I think and then I said, which is really did that just thinks. Oh, really? Oh, well, I forget whether she said it hesitantly. Or I said it boldly. I don’t know. But yes, love, Anna, But you also you mentioned you touched on something You say the book share the successes, share small successes when when you’re when you’re new form your new brand of communication does well get get Retweeted or yeah. Get special attention on Instagram or something. Great. Share it, share it and and share it with especially the board. Like, show them how this is work and give them the data to support this because they had their typically data driven Okay. Okay. So I want getting this getting this buy-in You’re also encouraging us to understand what the board’s motivations are correct. We’ll say little about. So you’re you know, you’re like I said the boards. Motivation is typically tio not mess up, but they also really they I mean, the board members really care deeply about what’s happening. And so when you can understand, like what they want to contribute what they’re what’s, then they’re what’s in their specific like, ah, mind how and and then pull that out of them. Then once they can increase their buy-in increase there, um, they’re emotional impact into the organization. Then we can. Then we can really work with them on taking those risks and coming with us. You know, for me, I’m, you know, I’m come from a communications background. I was on a board, and it was a lot of lawyers and accountants, and I was wondering, like, you know, how do I fit in here? You know, what is my gifts? And the organization is foster, adoptive cure coalition, that they’re my client now. I said, musicians what Foster and Adoptive Care Coalition. And I stepped down so that they could be my client. One of the things that we did is like these monthly our yearly meetings where we met one on one, the staff and board to talk about what our goals were, and then how they could contribute to those, And I think that’s really helpful. Another thing you suggest is be patient. Take small steps. Yeah. You know, you had over, like, a minute or so. Yeah. No, I mean, I think you just said it just you’re transforming a culture takes time, and it takes till it takes deliberate action every day. And so that’s why those successes, they’re so important, so people can start to see the transformation. And that’s a Olds. It’s been a month. And then, you know, let’s let’s move off this. This takes some time to really become part of your culture and just how people act and and think every day. Okay, we’re gonna take that break. Wittner, CPS. They’re kicking off a remote non-profit roundtable. Siri’s Each quarter, a Wagner’s sepia sepia will cover a topic that they know intimately detailed. And you need a basic understanding. That’s all you’re going to get in an hour. This is not a sepia, you know. Cielito SEPA credit course. You need a basic understanding of it. Their latest is revenue recognition for grants and contracts. You watch the archive video at wagner cpas dot com. Quick resource is than Webinars. Now, time for Tony’s. Take two. Are you insider yet? I’m pushing this because what do you get as an insider? Exclusive content. So today, with Maryann, we’re goingto produce her shoes, her platform boots that she’s about. You’ll see the purple thes. So there was shooting extra content videos short, like five minutes videos with each guest. And insiders get that on a private playlist. Now, some podcasters might charge you for that. You got five bucks a month or something? Whatever. Maybe seven. Eight bucks a month? Something? No, not non-profit radio? No, no charge. I just want you to be an insider. So you go to tony martignetti dot com and you click the insider alerts button that’s it. Prominent and you’ll be an inside its name and email, That’s it. It’s all I ask. You’ll be an insider, and then you’ll get the access to these exclusive videos that I’m doing with guests and, uh, including your going to see Mary Ann’s boots. All right, uh, let’s go back to Mary Anders and courageous communication, All right? Okay. All right. Yes, of course. My favorite thing. Tents. Are you okay? Stand up straight. Okay, okay. All right, so that the cops way talked about the culture, change, all change. Listening. Listening? Uh, you like, uh, discovery sessions and focus groups. So what’s the part first before we get to discovery sessions of folks, why do we have is listening How does a listening exercise fit into courageous communication? Okay, so when we, when we listen, Teo, so courageous communication is not too saying or doing whatever you want, right for the purpose of doing it. So when we listen, This is when we find consensus points in thinking that help is building develop our messaging and our brand so that everyone who’s part of it feels excited to share it. And s O You know, when I just want to make that clear, is when we talk about being a courageous communicator, that that that means that you’re speaking your organization’s authentic truth, right? And how we get to that is by listening. So, you know, what do we value as an organization? And then how can we present that in a way that feels authentic? Tow us and that but then is also exciting and engaging for those like minded people that we want to attract. And that’s where the discovery sessions and the focus groups come in. SoHo are we listening to? So for so So I I’ve used this cool tool call Discovery sessions for many, many years and S O. N. And it’s different. So typically a focus group, you would say, Here’s a couple of ideas we’re thinking about Can you give us some feedback around these specific ideas, right? A discovery session is more of an open ended conversation where you’re asking people how they think and feel about an organization. What attracted? Who are you asking? Well, I’m going to get to that. What’s so so about Non-profit? I would never platform boots and altum. Yes, so So So what we would do is create way create a cross section of people so bored staff, volunteers, clients creating a cross section in the room. Now, sometimes I would do it where, um, an organization would want different discovery sessions based on audience. And then it was up tio us to kind of synthesized the information, but most the times like that was a longer process and, um, or involved in an expensive process. And they wanted so we would take maybe twelve to fifteen people, put him in a room, board staff Like I said, you, Khun Dio, volunteers, clients, those people that are really close to your organization, they don’t even have to know a lot about it. Just have an affinity for it. And so sometimes people come in the room and they would say, Well, I just joined the board. I don’t know very much. It’s not about what you know. It’s like, What’s what? You’ve what you feel, What you feel right? Right? Yeah, right. You come. Why’d you join? So we and in the book I really lay this out step by step on how to do this, But we’re going to ask questions like, so, you know, tell me how to get the book. Just get the book right. What? Three words come to mind. You know, when you think about us. Like, what do you think that we do? That’s different or better? Because that’s what we’re looking for. Like our positioning. Right? And you know what attracted you? What? What would you tell people, Teo? You know who you think might be attracted to you? Would you tell people about right? So so that’s for two reasons. Because we’re planting something in their mind. That, you know, Hey, you should tell people about this. And if you did, what what would What would you say and what we’re looking for us. I said our consensus points and thinking. So when we do these, I have people write first and then speak and they write first. So that, like, if you and I were at opposite ends of the room and I heard, you know, everyone had the same thing to say by the time we got down Teo, you strain your Yeah, right, everybody. So I’m just going to not say that, because then I don’t think so. So we look at consensus points and running first, and then you got to read what you wrote. Exactly. And it’s a very strength space conversation. So a strength space, right? So you’re looking for what? What assets you have that you can present, And then how can you use those assets to connect with like minded people? So I just did this recently for a group that was starting their first sort of, like, big plan giving effort. And so we had a Yeah, right. Your your your wheelhouse. Yeah, And so it was the idea of, you know, These were people who had been long time donors and volunteers. So they were really the top prospects for this. But in But before we wantedto ask them formally, we’re asking them. Hey, how did you become involved? Like, what is your affinity? You know, what do you want your legacy to be, you know. And so most philanthropy is born of pain, right? Like so, There is a pain that I had in my life that I want to prevent other other people from happening. Right. So, right. So the pain of you know, you know, my parents, you know, we’re unemployed for a long stretch of time and write something like that. Right? And so when you asking people what you want their legacy to be, you know what? What? What? What? What changed? You want to see in the world, you know? Then you could really understand, like what their goals are. And so when we you know, when we did this, we got when we did these discovery sessions. We got so much information and not just around the plan giving, but just around who they were as people and and what and what their goals were in life. And how How can I How could an organization support that person? In many ways? Right, So so. And it’s It’s always we always get great stuff out of them, and people leave. People leave feeling really good. Like, Wow, that was a great use of my time. There was a very good donorsearch gauge mint. Yeah, Even bored engagement. Exercise? Yes, yes. So then what do you do with the with the synthesis of all this, Right? So just go. Yes, sure. So before you start, we usually have what we want out of it on the back end anyway. So if we’re looking for a messaging co-branding something like that, So we’re going to know what the front and what we want out of the back end. Sometimes people say like, this has happened so many times, people would say stuff in the room, and that would become their tagline, you know, and oh, gosh, yeah, but I can’t say that in the room. Right? Great sport. You catch it. Yeah, because I’m listening. I’m listening. And I’m scanning for you have the trained ear. Yes. And know what the purpose of the meeting is Yeah, and and and And there there were just creating a space for them. Tio Tio really express their thoughts around the organization and around their goals for their own with their own knife. Very informative, I think. Two CEOs, Teo full boards. Yeah. No, this synthesis, even beyond the product. Whatever it is, you’re looking for messages, right? Or or your promises or whatever, very informative, I think for it is. And it’s also, when you listen first and then and then develop later than we say to them. Hey, you know, because of what you said because of the guidance you gave here’s what we created, or here’s the direction we went. They see the impact. So if we don’t make decisions in the room and we make very clear up front like this is not decisionmaking, we’re not making a focusedbuyer. Yeah, you make want a pole or make a decision or, you know, get at least some priorities out of that. But this is about just this idea of Hey, let’s let’s talk. Let’s create this very specific space to talk about your thoughts around our organization, and then we can use that then to to help our decision making, You know, as a staff, a said struck me as outstanding engagement. Yes, for whatever. Whatever constituent. Cuz you’re bringing in volunteers. Clients? Yes. All the board donors plan giving donors get shot up. E-giving dahna. Yeah. Yes, that’s right there often for gotten. You know that they are. I’m the I’m the Evangelist without the religious overtones for planned e-giving at my client’s. Because it’s often the forgotten group. You know, there’s no recognition society for playing, giving you have a thousand dollars. Five thousand, fifty thousand dollar recognition, nothing for planned e-giving people who put you alongside their grandchildren. Right? And children in there will their life legacy. Teo, you can’t throw them. Ah, Recognition group. Come on. What do you mean? I’m not here yet, but, uh, I make the point. Dahna let’s take a break, and then we’re on our way. Okay, Well, when we come back, then we’ll talk about the authentic personality cause I feel like the info that you would gain from the discovery session of the focus groups leads to your unique personality and authentic personality partner. And and that’s important to know to learn. Tell us, can you use more money? You need a new revenue source. You want diversify revenue. Get a long stream of passive revenue. 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And the way Sam wrote it down real court to Argentina. Would that be, uh, put a star days when a star dies? Argentina Riel, Quarto Live Love to you Garza Garcia, Mexico Buena Star Days, Moscow, Russia. Good dog. No, that’s German. Um, Moscow, Russia. Live live out to you Middle village, New York. That’s Long Island. Middle Village. Cool. Charlotte, North Carolina. Live love, special love going on North Carolina, of course. Tampa, Florida Adelanto, adelanto, California Live love to each of you are live listeners And there’s more out there But summer summer mask guarded. I don’t know why, but there’s more live love going out to those masked, guarded people if I didn’t shut you out and the podcast pleasantries the over thirteen thousand listening in the time shift pleasantries to you. Whatever you’re doing, you’re painting your house. You’re washing your car. You’re doing the dishes. Is that your podcast binge day on a Sunday evening or something? No Sunday evenings of fir e mails. I have to be Sunday afternoon. Podcast binging wherever. Whenever you’re listening pleasantries to the that huge podcast audience, I’m grateful that you’re with us. Thank you. Let’s go back to Mary Anders. How does that sound? Great. Okay, cool. So what do I say we’re going to do? Oh, your authentic self authentic personality. One may all right, flushes out what we got here. Oh, you have a quote. I want Tonto. Okay. Okay. Frame this little bit. Page eighty for when you get the book, you’ll see it’s paid for the more honest and authentic you are in your communications, the more you’ll attract like minded people. So we’ve been talking around that, right? That’s like, to me. I was sort of like a thesis. Yeah, a theme running through the whole book, But Okay, but so now we’ll talk about your authentic personality. Okay, What’s this about? So as an organization. So we’ve talked about your personality on the center of the universe. If you can’t say that, you only have one cent. That’s so let’s move it. Dang it, dang it. Shifting away. Right. Light is moving now to your clients and nonprofit organizations who are listening. Yes. So So it’s this idea of, of of your organization just really being who they are. So if your grassroots e that’s okay if you’re older and more established, that’s OK. When you try to present yourself as something, you’re not just like people. People are going to get that through. Yeah. So I was meeting with Ah, a woman that I’ve known for a long time, and she now manages donorsearch vise funds. And she said, Marianne, it’s my job to get below the gloss. The brochure gloss into what’s really going on an organization. And I said, Melinda, it’s my job, not tohave the gloss that you can really see right into an organization that they’re excited, too, to present that to you and that they feel confident, you know and who they are. And and so one of the ways that you do that is, you know, celebrating successes, but then also being really honest about your struggles. We want to and and and if it’s a failure, right? And I In the book, I cite the Engineers Without Borders in Canada. They always do this failure there. Their annual report is their failure report the top ten ways we failed, and I’m like, Okay, boy, that’s a confident but they’re talking about Here is the lessons we learned. And in non-profit, I think we’re not allowed to fail like we think you know and get that become part of part of that risk averse culture if you’re going to take a risk if you can’t be bold and courageous you’re going to fail some. Great. And here’s what we learned from that. And here’s how that helped us grow. And so that’s idea of the good, the bad and and that that’s what people want to know when they want to connect to, you know, in in St Louis, I’m, you know, I’m ah, fostered dogs, right? So that’s one might. That’s one of the things that we do before dogs and you adopt children, adopt just Yes, I am a rescuer by nature, so And so I and there’s, like with you. Yeah. Yes. So there’s several organizations that sort of do a lot of the same this kind of the same thing, right? So they’re all working an animal welfare, right? I’ll show you who’s sorry, where were there are working in an animal welfare, but each of them has a distinct personality, right? And so so what? The organization that I that I worked for it there a little bit gritty and rebellious. The other one is a lot more folksy, community based other one is like older, established. They work on higher level like advocacy and overarching like statewide doing there in the streets. You’re doing the work. You’re rescuing the dog, right? And so so. But each has their own personality. Jefferson City? Yes. Jefferson City, Missouri. Yes. Capital of Missouri. Well, hardly hardly known. Right. City lived in Warrensburg for five years. I was in here for firstborns. Were really Okay. All right, so so. But each one has their own distinct personality, and that’s OK. And so when When you are looking so if I have an affinity towards animals, I can I can look and I can understand, like the landscape and one which one I’m attracted to, right? And and And And so it’s just sort of like owning that like, you know, Hey, you know, this is this is who we are, and this is what we’re about. And and And if you like that, that’s great. And if you don’t, that’s okay too. You know, we’re happy to know us and a hard place to be lorts well to a future with Sorry. I wanna keep it on the chairs now. We’re on a shoestring budget here. Okay, So leading to this is you’ve alluded to this a bunch of times. You wantto take stock inventory? What it is that’s that’s holding you back. What your fears are? Yes. Okay. We haven’t talked about this yet. Yeah, let’s let’s flush this out. Because because if you’re going to be courageous in your communications, there are going to be worries. Fears. We’re going live donors, We’re gonna lose volunteers. The mayor isn’t gonna like us anymore. Etcetera, etcetera, You know, you gotta take stock, right, And then go ahead. You flush it out. Yeah, eso. And so it’s important to inventory your fierce because the concern isn’t going to go away. So when the benefit outweighs the concern, then you’ll move forward. So what I mean by that is when you’re going to have concerns and fears through this whole process. But But we’re working towards something greater. So we just need to learn what our concerns are and then make a plan to address them. Because boardmember Zehr going to say, Oh, my God. What if this happened? Okay, Okay, so what if that does happen? So let’s make a plan to address that. So people like plans because it helps them, you know, feel feel safe and like, Okay, so if we’re going to do this thing, and so what if somebody doesn’t criticize us? What do we dio? And then once we have, like, so a lot of times, you know, Remember when Non-profits were hesitant to get on social media? Because they we’re afraid of of negative comments, right? What if somebody says something? Okay. What if somebody does say something? How do we manage that? And and so because crisis PR to me is just something that happens not every days. Ah, huge crisis. But it’s just you’re going toe. It’s the price of doing business. If you’re doing and saying something interesting, somebody’s not going to like it, and that’s okay. But the people who do like it are the ones we’re concerned about. And so it’s this idea of Okay, What if somebody doesn’t like it? Then how can we address that? And there are, you know, times when I worked with groups where we really just said, Okay, what are all our concerns? And we put them on the whiteboard and we addressed each one with some with some strategies. To address each thing. What if this happened? Okay, this is what we would d’oh. Okay. Right. Okay. On benefits as well. You wantto take stock of the benefits, right? And so that so the idea is to attach Teo and and the thing is, like, you could have one hundred fears. But if you have one benefit right, you’re goingto work past those those fears. And so the idea is okay, as a group understanding, what do we really want for organization? How? No. What is it that it’s really want going to move us forward? And then once we agree to that right, and then so now we know how to get to that. Okay, now, this is this concerns, and we’re just going to manage these as we go with a plan for each one of your plan for each one. Because what happens right now is we’re making decisions based in fear, right? And so let’s make decisions based on rational thought. Right here is what’s best for organization here’s here’s the most efficient way to get what we need or whatever. Whatever it is instead of Oh, no, we can’t do that. That’s that’s that’s too. That’s too something right. So when And so the ideas. Yeah, I get that. That’s scary. But let’s make decisions based based in the rational thought, and then and then just just be mindful that there’s going to be concerns popping up you say in the book fears don’t predict the future. Yeah, right. I’m not a mind reader. I wish I could be. I tell my kids that, too, just because you think it’s all going to go wrong, it’s not. That doesn’t mean it isthe right. So and the ideas like this idea of being an abundance of scanning the scene for but what good could happen instead of constantly scanning the scene for what could go wrong? And that’s why I’m working toward the good right. And that’s a mindset that that, you know, I work for every day, as you know as a person and that that, you know, I work with organizations to Yeah, right. So we’re going to look at the world is a place of abundance and opportunity Instead of fear and scarcity. You got a car last break text to give. Can you use more money? I need a new revenue source. Diversify revenue. Here’s the second way. Mobile giving. You could learn about it with text to gives five part email. Many course you’re You’ll get five emails over five days. Just like my therapy. I could do, mate. I did my therapy in this way be a lot cheaper. So I’m sure five e mails way, Yes. So what do you do to get the five female Many course from text to give you text. NPR for non-profit radio and November Papa Romeo. Air Force days, Whiteman Air Force Base, Warrensburg, Missouri. Jefferson said he’s the capital. Text NPR to four, four, four nine nine nine. All right, we’ve got several more minutes left for courageous communications. Um, so staff expertise you have. You have a chapter on developing right on creating developing staff expertise. Yes. Yes. So just take a picture of me. Yes, you did. You know how to shoot a video, So I know it’s exciting beyond Zoom. You love Zoom I d’Oh d’Oh d’oh. Okay. Okay. So, staff. Okay, so I learned a phrase a couple weeks ago, and it’s It’s not my genius. It’s not my job. And I think that plays really well here. That’s about a about why’s that bad? Because then you have to be. You have to be excellent at everything. But you’re not a possum. That’s right. You’re a genius and everything, right? So, Souto, from your therapist E I learned that for I know. I was on Ah, CEO workshop. Okay. To be average it something. Yeah. Was your therapist? Yes. Yes. It’s okay to be just OK, which is still, like, completely unacceptable to me. But I’m working on it. I know more about your therapy than you do. So know. So. So staff. So so. So a lot of times organizations will, um, get bogged down in what I call a like. They think they’re fund-raising or they think their relationship building because they’re, you know, putting together a newsletter or, you know, an annual report. When I work with folks on that, that there’s only one you there’s only one Tony and Mary. And like some of my kinds, Larry, there’s only right there’s only one Larry or Galen are are the folks that I work with and and so you only you could build those relationships. There’s a lot of people who could do other things in your office, like, you know, the newsletters, this the social media that could update the contents of your website or something like that. And but there’s on ly one you. So when you are bogged down in this, either either two things one is you’re kind of bogged down in it because you’re expected to dio all the relationship building of fund-raising. And then you’re expected to dio all of the you know, the design and development of marketing materials and social media, or you’re doing those things because you’re a little hesitant to do the relationship thing, right? So sometimes people get into fund-raising positions, and they really that relationship building isn’t their forte. And, you know, they fall into these position and they confined administrative things, Teo time. And then they wonder why they didn’t make their money creating goals on DH there moves goals by the end of the year because they’ve because they’re not comfortable doing it s o They found distraction. Yeah, eso and non-profits tend to value money and not time. So they said we were gonna watch every dollar, but we have plenty of time, right, so we can weaken we can have all the time. So we’re gonna work people really long hours. And then because we’re going to keep all that in house, well, we could do that here. We could do that in house and what that does, is it, You know, Yeah, You’re saving money by not sending that out. But the money that you’re losing because of the because those folks, those that they’re geniuses relationship building, let them build relationships, because then they’re going to be generating the income, you know, and then offloading some of those, those duties, that anyone you look at this and say it, and I’m not saying like all too because, like, you know, at my old company five one Creative, I worked with a very awesome team of designers and developers, so nothing anyone could do anything. I’m just saying, what is what is your genius right? What is your gift and are? And is that your primary focus of your job is practicing those gifts because in the end, that is going to move your organization farther. You also make a point of saying, if you don’t have expertise in house, you’re gonna have to spend the money, tio by it. Freelance consulting. Any of the sites that match a big potential volunteers. Yes, but you’ve got to get the expertise you don’t have that you need. Yeah, and, you know, you could learn how to build a website, but then you’re never going to replicate that point. Don’t spend your time don’t spend. And so so yeah, So bring those people in, have them help you in boost you. And I realized when I started my company, I looked around. I said, what makes a successful business? And those people were spending a lot of time and a lot of money and a lot of investment into the professional development of their company and themselves. And I look and I see the same thing. And non-profits they’re bringing people in right there, ringing the highest level, thinking that they confined into really push them forward in a way that they couldn’t have gotten gotten themselves. And then they’re seeing a lot of benefit from that investment. Yes, You have to. You you can’t. Another guest on a couple weeks ago, it was December. You can’t be expert and everything. And there’s no point in learning things right. You don’t need to do what your genius at. Yeah, you’re wasting your time. You’re taking time away from your genius, right? You think you’re saving, but in the end, it’s costing you a lot more. We got about thirty seconds. Encourage us wrap it up and encourage. Yes. So you know, right now, it’s kind of a crazy time. You know, politically. Onda lot of non-profits are really kind of flipping into fear, right? And so, my I’m gonna encourage them to start scanning the world for the possibilities and the abundance around them and creating this brand of attraction so that they can keep that positive energy coming towards them. So that because all these types of our world is uncertain everyday. So when we’re certain of the direction we’re going, we can cope with that a lot. A lot, a lot more easily. Outstanding. You’ll find her at Marianne dash dot com. There’s an e at the end of Marianne, and she’s at Mary and, er sh thank you very much. Thank you for having me. This pleasure. Wonderful. And for insiders, Marianne has time effectiveness tips that we’re gonna talk about. Plus, you’re going to see the shoes next week, walks and runs with Emily Parks. If you missed any part of today’s show, I’d be seat you Find it on tony martignetti dot com. We’re sponsored by pursuing online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled Tony dahna slash Pursuing by what you see piela is guiding you. Beyond the numbers. Wagner cps dot com By Tello’s Credit card and payment processing your passive revenue stream Tony dahna slash Tony Tello’s and by text to give mobile donations made easy text. NPR to four four four nine nine nine A great of producer was Clam Meyerhoff. Sam Liebowitz is the line producer shows Social Media is by Susan Chavez. 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