Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%
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- On Fridays at 1pm Eastern: Talking Alternative Radio
- Listen to the April 10, 2015 archived podcast.
My Guests:
Roger Craver: The Agitator’s Donor Retention
Roger Craver is The Agitator and his book is “Retention Fundraising.” He has strategies to help you keep the donors you’ve got.
Avi Kaplan: Wearable And Mobile Tech
Google Glass. iBeacon. These and other devices and apps have implications for your organization. Should you pay attention and where? How do you avoid shiny object syndrome? Avi Kaplan is director of online strategy at Rad Campaign and we talked at NTC, the Nonprofit Technology Conference.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week. Chelsea ferraro, quote, your show is such an inspiration to me and i enjoyed listening each and every week i do my best to encourage others to do the same end quote chelsea, i can’t ask anything more that is just outstanding. Thank you so much. You have my best wishes for your new job and i’m going to send you a video. And from that video, you choose a book from the non-profit radio library and i’ll ship it out to you. It’s yours. Congratulations, chelsea listener of the weak and thank you so much for loving non-profit radio i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be stricken with asthmatic sn ophelia, if i got wind of the idea that you missed today’s, show the agitators dona retention. Roger craver is the agitator and his book is retention fund-raising he has strategies to help you keep the donors you’ve got and wearable and mobile tech google glass ibeacon, these and other devices and aps have implications for your organization, should you? Pay attention. And where? How do you avoid shiny object syndrome? Avi kaplan is director of online strategy at radcampaign. And we talked at ntcdinosaur non-profit technology conference on tony’s. Take two between the guests. A double honor and a fellowship opening responsive by opportunity collaboration with working meeting on poverty reduction that will ruin you for every other conference. I’m really glad that roger craver, the agitator is with me. He’s, the agitator at the agitator dot net he’s been shaking things up for a long time in big ways. He helped launch organizations like common cause greenpeace, the national organization for women and amnesty international. Damn that’s. Impressive. His book is retention fund-raising the new art and science of keeping your donors for life published by emerson and church he’s at roger craver on twitter and right now. He’s on non-profit radio welcome, roger craver. Thanks, tony it’s. Great to be with you, it’s. A pleasure it’s. A real pleasure to interview the agitator. I love that the agitator that’s cool like thank you. Did you think about the anarchist? Did you consider that or no it’s? No, i don’t need that much chaos. I think they’re stirring. Things up in agitating ways. Good. Okay, that’s sufficient? I understand. Um, why was there a need for a book called retention? Fund-raising well, for the last ten years, possibly fifteen years, american non-profits and european non-profits have been basically losing mohr donors than they’re gaining. And that is that is a real problem, not only for the present, but for the future, the history of fund-raising before then was the donors were fairly easy to come by, and the cost of acquiring them was relatively inexpensive. And so there was a sort of burn and turn mentality that so what if we lose the donors? Well, well, get new donors and simply replaceable that’s not possible anymore. And so people who are you caring about? Their organizations future need to be caring about holding on to the donors they have early in the book, you cite a twenty thirteen a f p association of fund-raising professional study that says that ah, a few things, but it starts with flat fund-raising every every hundred dollars raised from new donors was offset by one hundred dollars, in losses. That’s, right? And it got worse. It got worse in two thousand fourteen. It was off by one hundred six dollars really way are going the wrong way. Um, and then also that there was negative growth in the number of donors for every hundred dollars for every hundred donors acquired, one hundred seven were lost. That’s, right, that’s, right. Pretty a pretty frightening statistic when you couple that with the fact that the number of non-profit has grown enormously in the last thirty years. It’s grown from about six hundred thousand to a million. Five hundred thousand non-profits so many more non-profits chasing far fewer donors. That, in essence, is the problem. And why retention is so important, many more charities chasing many fewer donors. Right? Alright, so that is clearly unsustainable. Um, all right. So, what we gonna do about this? Well, that’s, what i asked myself after after watching these statistics for a long time, i decided there there really has to be an empirical way too. Find out why donors leave and what we can do to keep them in the bowl. Yes, the study and s so we set out to do and did a two year study of two hundred fifty non-profits in the united states and in the united kingdom and survey tens of thousands of donors to determine why they leave, and then what steps on organization could take to hold on to them? And that it is the findings from that study that i’ve encapsulated in this in this book, along with some quite practical suggestions on what organizations khun due to step in this hemorrhaging, we’re going to get to those because that you call them retention winds? Yep. Um ah! Finger pointing is not particularly valuable, but i’d like to do some anyway. My show, we’re going to do whatever the hell i want. Where do you think that? How do you think this problem arose? This lays a fair, lackadaisical attitude about how we treat our donors and doesn’t matter. We lose some, we’ll gain more back. Where does the fault line you think? Well, if it arose from the days when it was so easy and inexpensive, too acquire donors and at a time when direct response became very popular way of acquiring donors and so they the mindset became sort of it’s it’s. Easier to sign the purchase order for direct mail lists and printing than it is to really worry about how to take care. Oh, rather casual. Okay, so we consign this purchase order for an acquisition, mailing campaign or whatever, whatever channel we use acquisition, campaign and that’s easier than being introspective and evaluating and then improving the way we treat our donors exactly, because, uh, the the reality is that, uh, treating a donor well takes thought takes work, takes planning and, uh, takes the willingness to build a relationship between the organization and the donor and that that involves a lot more than simply mailing a letter or making a phone call. And i love that we’re talking to someone who has studied this problem. I noticed a non-profit radio last couple of weeks, i’ve been saying introspection a lot, this but it just seems to be coming up with a number of guests that non-profits i need to be introspective about whatever, whatever subject we’re talking about this that’s not enough it’s critical self evaluation. No, there isn’t. And one of the one of the reasons for that there’s a there’s a so called well there’s a horrible jargon term called brett. Best practice. Okay, what in the earth? Best practices are i? Don’t know, and i’ve been doing this for fifty years, but people latch onto that term and they most often compare their organization with other organisations and say, well, if we’re we’re doing about as well as the other other guy, so we must be using best practices but that you know, that there’s no introspection involved in that that’s that’s like reading the box score something it makes no sense. I mean, the other, the other organization might be doing it badly. You can’t you can’t just say that we were consistent with others they maybe, maybe underachievers. And by the way, we have non-profit radio we have jargon jail but best practices has been used so often that i’m not even sure that’s jargon anymore. It’s ah it’s. More like cliche. We should send it. Send ugo senate jargon jail within you. Teo, send you teo cliche camp, are you near? Are you near an airport? There’s a jets taking ice and you’re about thirty miles away. But one just came over, so okay, well, maybe we’re being a song that kept going. It didn’t stop. Right? Okay, we would’ve heard it if it stopped. All right, so we’ll put you in cliche camp, which doesn’t sound that bad joke it’s like for minor offenders. That’s a juvenile would be in there. That’s trade. I don’t use it. No, i don’t think there is such a thing. Best practice. Um, and i’ve been hearing state of the art a lot too. Maybe that’s replacing best practices, but there’s just a substitution. All right, spare us and thought thought leadership we could we could talk all day about jargon. Jail thought leadership. Yes, i know there’s a lot of it in non-profits and that’s. Why? Non-profit radio has drug in jail sometimes i let offenders off easy and other times probation is is harder to come by. All right, we’re gonna go out for a break. And when roger and i come back, we’ve got a good amount of time. We’re going to talk about some of these retention wins that are easy to do and and had a help you build trust with your current existing donors so they don’t depart. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst. Of fund-raising insights, published once a month, tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent we’re pre recorded this week. I’m sorry, i can’t send ah town and city live listener love but you know that i love are live listeners so that’s out to each of you listening live podcast pleasantries those on the time shift, wherever you are, whatever device whatever time. Whenever however many days or weeks later, you listen to non-profit radio pleasantries to you and never forget our affiliates. Very important affiliate affection out to each of our affiliates throughout the country non-profit radio was heard. Okay, roger craver. Now, how can we be sure that these retention winds are not cloaked? Best practices? Well, so he could be sure based on empirical data as measured from the responses of ah, thousands and thousands of donors. There’s. No conjecture here on my part. You know, there’s there’s, lots of so called best practices where the people say, well, you know, you ought to print your thank you notes on a very high quality paper. Or you ought to get him out within twenty four hours. Or you need tio send x number of cultivation pieces with no asks. And all that, of course, is is pure tribal wisdom, so our best practices, whatever you want to call it. So here we weigh in this study, we measured what people care most about and what they don’t care about and put it in priority order according to their responses, and came up with a way of of isolating the seven drivers that make for retention or flipside of retention of courses is attrition. And, you know, tony, all all of this is really based on apart from our empirical data, there’s a lot of common sense here, but common sense, it turns out, is a fairly rare commodity. Ah, the business of building relationships, which is what donorsearch tension is all about is based on two, two things consistency and reliability. None of this, uh, listening to this program have serious personal relationships that don’t have an element of substantial element of consistency and reliability by if i say to my spouse, i’m i’m going to meet you at seven thirty, and i’m persistently late or early or inconsistent with that. That relationship is not goingto laugh the same the same when it comes your have you been talking? To my wife, you’re describing my marriage, let’s, let’s keep personalities and personal lives out of this job. All right, well, people just translated into into the non-profit world if i if i receive a on appeal, a prospect appeal let’s, say from from an animal organization and it talks about rescuing puppies and cats, and i send them a contribution. And the next thing i know, i get an acknowledgement letter about the oceans and let’s save some whales that is not consistent, and i will not likely be back to that organization with another gift or if they send that acknowledgement letter and it says roger carver instead of roger craver call their their help line, and i get a rather surly or non-cash arika clerk, and he says, well, i may i try to get to it as soon as i can and isn’t very helpful. I’m not going to go back with another gift because that’s an unreliable organization, so we have to understand that relationships are built on trust and the two pillars of trust or consistency and reliability. Andi therein lies the key to retention because it leads to the next element of of retention, which is understanding the donors the importance of the donors attitude. You know, it’s it’s, not it’s, not the donors behaviour that we should be concerned about behavior in the sense of transactions giving money or not giving yeah, donors attitude that we need to care about because the organization bonem determines what that attitude is going to be by the organization’s action. Yeah, when you use organization is doing things that affect the donor positively, then the donor’s attitude will lead to behaviour that makes transaction increases. The size of a gift renews the membership, whatever, whatever the desired outcome. But it’s, not the donor per se, that is to blame are not to blame. It is the organization’s action. I have determined how that donor feels about the organization that something that folks really need to understand if they’re serious about donor-centric right? How did they perceive? Perceive your organization? Is it professional? Does it care about me as a donor? Aside from all the programmatic important work that it’s doing. But how does it treat our relationship that’s? Right? And that that tony that is paramount in ah, donors. Psyche. No, they people hyre non-profits to do a variety of of things a number of jobs sometimes is to make them feel good sometimes it’s to enable them to be able to tell their peer group that they’re doing this or that sometimes it’s, because they want to do a specific thing, but very seldom is what is that, what the organization claims it is in their appeals. Many people really don’t care that you have ten regional offices or that your ceo has appeared six times in the new york times, none none of that is important yet organizations just love talking about themselves, and nothing is more deadly and building a donor relationship that let’s move into these retention winds, which i’ll remind people are just reiterate these air based on empirical study, not not conventional wisdom or would just tribal wisdom that has been repeated at conference after conference. Just because one organization does it a certain way and they’ve been successful doesn’t mean that that’s going to be successful universally it’s not really lesson that’s amore that’s an anecdote. Um okay, you like saying thank you. That sounds pretty simple. Why does it why does this need to be? Why does need to be said, well, it needs to be said because sixty four percent of american non-profits don’t bother thanking their donors. We could start, we can start right there two thirds to two thirds of gifts or not not acknowledged and thanked. You’re saying are not are not acknowledged, thank some. Some of that third is acknowledged the sense of a tax receipt, but a tax receipt doesn’t go very far to build toward building a personal relationship. That’s a little cold? Yeah, yeah, patane has retained this receipt for your tax advisers evaluation? Yeah, exactly, exactly so they the importance of a thank you is that it is the it is an initial step in building a relationship, and we’ve learned a couple things through this study that that air quite important. One is it needs to be personal, and by that i don’t mean personalized i mean, personal sounding and warm, warm of heart and meaningful to the donor not necessarily long, but it really has to be real. Not way we’re so happy to have received your twenty five dollars gift, it will be put to immediate ineffective you sincerely, x y z that is not a that is not a thank you. Rather it is. Dear tony, your check arrived. I can’t tell you how happy it’s going to make sammy who tomorrow will have not only a meal, but he will have a toy for christmas heimans and so forth so it needs it really needs to connect the donor to the organization and the donor’s gift to a beneficiary in a real sense of the of the word. Something has something way before you get timely there’s no automatic rule that it has xero out within twenty four hours, but it should go out promptly after receipt of the gift. Because we in the studies we we’ve done the preferential time is forty eight hours, but donors are forgiving of taking longer than that. What they’re not forgiving of are these form printed, impersonal, thank you’s that just ring ring hollow. So that’s that’s the importance of saying thank you? One of the things you mentioned that i want to emphasize is that the thank you doesn’t have to be long? It doesn’t. I’ve heard this and said it many times on the show heard it from guests to be genuine and sincere does not require something long. No, i mean, i love you. If it’s if it’s said in a heartfelt way, three words does an awful lot to a relationship. That’s your right that’s it that’s an outstanding analogy. Cool. All right. Oh, and the book points out that there’s, um, resource is available around. Thank you’s. You have. Ah, there’s a thank you letter clinic at sophie, which is the showcase of fund-raising inspiration and innovation and your ovary thoughtful to point out that people can lift thank you letter ideas from there, but not copy and paste. No, not copy and face, but take, uh, lisa sergeant has put that together and done a terrific job, and she she has an attic full of ah, wonderful. Thank you. Uh, campaigns in there and get inspired by it. And by all means use that, you know, shaul had a saying the mediocre borrow genius steals and there’s lots of good stuff on sophie that’s that’s worth looking at that will give you ideas. And this thank you. Clinic is certainly one of them. All right, mediocre borrow and the genius steals hyre i’m in the wrong business. What we gotta transcend. The law’s a little more often, but there we go. You want us to be boring? What do you mean what’s behind that? Be boring. Let’s go back to the to the term consistency, one of the one of the realities of painful realities among most non-profits is they get tired of their of their same message, and as a result, because they’re bored. Uh, they they hyre another copy writer or the same copywriter and say let’s, let’s do something fancy or something that glows in the dark. Something different, something exciting? Well, that is that is not only a horrible waste of time and money. It’s also destructive of relationships, consistency is important and that’s what i mean by be boring. You may be tired of the same message you, mr or mrs organization of same message. But the donor isn’t tired of the same message. They they join for that reason and they want to stay involved for that reason, so be consistent. That doesn’t mean you have to copy the same thing every time, but stay on the same team that have produced the donor in the first place and the same the same way a good politician will give the same stump speech over and over again. She may be absolutely sick and tired of it, and the press may be sick and tired of it, and her staff may be sick and tired of it, but it is a speech that works with don’t with the voters, and it has to be given over and over again. You have a background in political consulting, too, don’t you? Yes, ideo i, uh, did a lot of work for twenty years for a number of democratic senators, presidential candidates and, of course, citizen advocacy work for groups like greenpeace, the seal, you and others that’s all tied to politics. You’ve been around, you’ve been doing this a long time. Did you say fifty years earlier? I believe just think, yeah, i’m probably older than most of the trees you’re looking at. Well, i’m in new york, so thie average tree life in new york and i think seven years, the street trees. So you got you got those? You’ve got those covered, but all right, you’ve been around it. I’m in i admire its wisdom, its wisdom coming shoretz empirically it’s empirical wisdom it’s not anecdotal. Here’s what’s worked for me in my client’s through the decades. Okay, you want to listen to donors, don’t you? Absolutely. And here here is on area that organizations can really score against the competition and can also help themselves because very few folks in the nonprofit world design efforts to get the feedback from their donors. You know the court corporate america spends billions of dollars getting feedback. If you go on an airline, get off that airline the next day you get a survey you goto to ah, hotel, the next day you get a survey after you’ve checked out my heavens, even ihop does a survey on the back of the receipts from their breakfast, and the reason they do this is they know that it, uh, that asking for people’s opinion builds satisfaction and builds loyalty, and it is so easy to do, and it is so inexpensive to do, but most non-profits don’t do it, and they just keep the mute button on rather than listen to their donors. But by having feedback mechanisms, you can find out that your website, uh, sucks when it comes to the donate page, or you can find out. That you’re donorsearch vis program isn’t good, and these these feedback mechanisms are there basically widgets that you can put on your website or questions you can put in your direct mail? Andi, uh, get get the donor’s opinion and, you know, tony one one of the thing on that you don’t have to necessarily get a written response or telephone response from a donor zamir act repeat, the mere act of asking for someone’s opinion and feedback will boost retention by thirty percent. That is a significant difference. Roger, we have teo to start to wrap up. We just have about thirty seconds left, and, uh, i want listeners, of course, to know there are many more retention winds in the book retention fund-raising published by emerson and church. Roger. Just spend a couple seconds. Small and midsize shops have a big advantage here, don’t they? They absolutely do. And i love your your slogan for the other ninety five percent because they have a huge advantage because they can do things personally. And a well run non-profit shop that pays attention to its donors will exceed, uh, return on investment by by five to ten times higher than the big organization roger craver he’s, the agitator to find omit the agitator dot net, and at roger craver on twitter, roger, thank you so much for sharing all that empirical wisdom. It’s my pleasure and i join chelsea and your fan club thank you coul write something nice and i’ll make you a listener of the week. Thank you again. Tony’s take two and wearable mobile and tech coming up. First opportunity collaboration. It was a terrific experience. It really kicked us up to the next level that’s ross baird, executive director of village capital. And there are lots of funders at o c. Extremely useful contacts, projects funding. It opens people that’s alberto vasquez, president of soc edad e dis capacidad in saudi’s, peru oh, see opportunity. Collaboration is a week long conference in x top of mexico centered around poverty reduction throughout the world. It’s in october you’ve heard me tell you i was there last year and i’m going again this year. If your work is related at all to poverty reduction anywhere in the world, check it out. Opportunity collaboration, dot net! I’m being honored by hermandad, a charity that brings water to the poorest of the poor in the dominican republic. I’ve been helping them save lives for lots of years, and it would be a double honor if you’d be with me by making a gift to hermandad, we can save lives together in the dominican republic and be honored together on april twenty third. That’s that’s really what i’m thinking video and links are tony martignetti dot com and i thank you very much for considering helping me save those lives. Are you a millennial interested in measuring social good? Then evaluate for change has your next career move they are recruiting for their millennial non-profit data fellowship. The ideal candidate is a millennial employed or volunteering at a non-profit and dedicated to using data to improve the nonprofit sector. Roger craver would approve of this very strongly. I believe the fellowship is part time and includes training, mentoring and a final capstone project. The application deadline is april thirtieth. Apply at evaluate for change dot com that is tony’s take two for friday, tenth of april fourteenth show of the year and here is my non-profit technology conference interview on wearable and mobile tech with abby kopperman welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference twenty fifteen we’re in austin, texas, at the convention center in austin. My guest is avi kaplan he’s, director of online strategy for radcampaign brovey welcome, thank you durney pleasure to have you ah, your topic is wearable and mobile tech what it means for non-profits there’s, there’s a lot of new stuff out there, there is yes, just generally now we have plenty of time together, so you don’t have to pack it all into one answer, but generally, what does it mean for non-profits i think there’s a lot of exciting technology is emerging, a lot of organizations, they’re trying to make sure that they’re experimenting and taking advantage of all the technology available to them. Um and ah mobil’s, obviously a really great opportunity for engagement, but i think what it means is also there’s there’s um, it’s become a bit of a buzz word to me, you know? What are you doing on mobile? So what i think it means is it’s it’s an opportunity tio tio, come up with some some valuable ways to engage with their community um, but also to be really thoughtful and making making sure that you are investing your time and resources wisely in this area. Yes. We need to avoid shiny object syndrome. Yes. Okay. Because there’s, because there are plenty of shiny objects. Teo, to attract our attention. All right. What’s ah, what’s what’s. Interesting to you. What would you like to start talking about? Sure. Well, i think one of the starting points that a lot of non-profits today have when they think about mobile is related to their websites. You know, having mobile website being mullet going mobile responsive has become really wide, very widespread tactic your sight. If your sight’s not mobile responsive, you’re not creating a great experience for a huge portion of your audience. That’s growing. We have just interrupt. You interrupt a lot because i like to have yeah, absolutely. How many people view more likely to be viewing on mobile device? And then ah, desktop, what laptop? What kind of depends on on your audience? But you’re good, benchmark. Ah, somewhere between twenty and thirty percent for the average non-profit depends on your sector. Okay, if your audience is more you know, advocacy volunteer focused and expect that to be hyre through demographic is younger, more, you know, if you’re do something dot org’s there, i would assume upwards of fifty percent of their eyes. Ah, mole is mobile browsing audience i’ve had are your finger on the show, the ceo of do something she’s got a couple times, and also, you know, they have t m i their spin off for for consulting their head around, talking about that because you ceo of that ceo of do something yeah, that’s probably at least fifty percent buy-in likely hyre for, you know, for a larger legacy organization associations, i would expect around twenty percent, but, you know, it’s, easy to find, figure that out exactly for for your website with google analytics or another analytics platform if you’re have that set up. Ok, so we certainly should be paying attention to, uh what? How many people are viewing on our site through mobile? Now it seems a lot that ah, a lot of times in some organizations, people aren’t even going back to the website that often they’re more engaging on the social channels. Yeah, sure, i mean, that’s being conscious of where your contents being engaged with, right? You know, if it’s if it’s all in the facebook news feed or it’s, the grand feeds their, you know, whatever platform piece you observe people, you know, talking about your story, a lot of the social experiences on mobile as well. So being conscious of what networks folks are using to talk about, you know where that conversation’s happening, it becomes a mobile conversation as well. I think a lot of people don’t wind up at your home page for mobile, but the landing pages that they get, i don’t know what the status but it’s a email as well, it has shifted to mobile for sure. You know, even in the office, a lot of people, um, at their desks work with two devices because they just find email triage is so much easier on a on a tablet or ah or a phone, i do that myself often. Um, so then, you know, you want about the landing page and it’s mobile, you know, i know this is a cool phrase i’ve never heard this phrase email triage because i mean, that suggests it’s a way of medical. Emergency. We’re in a crisis and were triaging all our messages. Yeah, i mean, i’ve never heard that phrase it’s cool, all right? Yeah. I kind of just filtering through things. And, you know, i think a lot of the email platforms tryto try to help people with that and there’s on mobile people there’s some interesting applications to help people with that task. But email triage, female triage. So let’s, talk about if we do need to be mobile optimized moat, which is most likely, what should we be thinking about? How do we achieve this? Well, you the idea with ah responsive website is that, you know, in the design on the as you develop the site, you create break points so that, um, you know, you can you can have your site b device aware and, you know, send out different code two different devices based on, you know, to create a good experience for that. You know, taylor to each device, but for non-profits of a more cost effective way of creating good mobile experiences to create break points based on the browser screen size. So, you know, if you break this down for us to get a little technical, but i’m jorgen jail on non-profit radio, so they’re going to get to try and stay out of jail. Yes, you are. We’ll be quick, quick parole, sure. So you know you’re if your website has a style sheet that the browser loads you, teo latto, you know, produce the design in the browser. You know, the site will load with different layout of different elements on the page based on how wide your screen is. And so, you know, if you’re on ah, you know, a nine inch tablet or ah eleven inch tablet or, you know, fifteen inch screen the pixel with will determine the layout of the elements on the page, but only one set of code will have to be downloaded. So you keep your sight it’s a balance between the speed of your sight loading and an effective way to create a diverse experience without having to think about exactly taylor for every device. Okay, all right, so size is critical. What else? What else were you thinking about for? For responsive sites. Yeah. Yeah. Mobile responses. Yeah, well, you it does help toe to know what. Ah, you want to have a sense of the help. So, you know, this is a scent, a sense of the devices people are using. You can find that in google analytics. Yeah. I mean, if you’re you know, if you know if you’re working with you know, we’re radcampaign we build a lot of response of websites and what we often dio there’s ah ah, device lab actually in near our office in washington, d c and you can go and test on specific, though, but, you know, especially on the android platform there’s, so many different if you have a iphone there’s, you know, six different models, something like that since the beginning of iphone, but on android there’s thousands, you can check out those devices, load your site and and run testing it’s just exactly how it’s going to appear if you have the patience for that and the resource is too, if you’re developing a site in house it’s really worthwhile, especially if you you don’t have the experience of your executive director has, ah, unique device that nobody else in your pockets hasn’t really complaint. Why doesn’t this element load? Well for me? You know, it looks goofy and, you know, you hope to catch all those specific cases as you’re doing your testing, but hyre sometimes it’s it really is something quirky with that device or ah, you know ah, plug in or an extension somebody has and, you know, everybody’s browsing experience if you’re on a tablet on ah, desktop itt’s unique based on your your own quirky set up. So let’s, let’s talk about some of the wearable technology you that’s that’s part of your your workshop also what? What’s what’s exciting there. And where do you see for non-profits? Sure, i see this is kind of more on the horizon for in terms of being a worthwhile investment. But, you know, wearables are everything from, you know, the fitness tracking devices like the fit bid. And you know, microsoft has ah, fitness device coming out there’s a company called misfit thie apple watches coming out, i think in april so it all kind of tracking these analytics of user activity. You know your steps here. Ah, you know, fitness activities and so that’s interesting to me, i think. Just cause it’s creating the consumer familiarity of wearing a device that gives you some some feedback. Interesting piece for non-profit communications and engagement are is that these where these devices start? Tohave notifications built in that our people interacted them a little bit differently. Oh, explain. Explain how that works is this is new to a lot of people. Yeah. Gotomeeting notifications. What anybody means. Sure. So, i mean, just like you get a push notification. Have toe pull out your phone usually, um ah, like fit. But i think they have. They have a couple of models now. There’s there’s ah, small enough screen simple text, but you can just get it’ll pop up and you can read your text message right on the on the device. I don’t mind on your wrist, which saves you from taking your phone out and you know it for non-profit and that’s that’s becoming ah, more more devices are getting becoming popular that had have that feature not just for a text messaging, but you know any type of notification that can show up anything that dahna, you know, android has ah platform called android where are injured, watch and ah, the iphone abila watch is going to be coming out, and that has its own platform. So a lot of mobile labs the people already have installed on their phones, no instagram or yeah, you are snapchat or whatever it is you are goingto have be easily extend, be able to be extended tohave notifications going to people’s wrists, which for non-profits is something you know you could you i could easily see somebody getting very excited about that or leadership. Ah, kind of jumping the gun and saying, oh, we now we need to just send our donation forms everybody’s wrist so it just highlights the importance to be very conscious of people’s, patience and attention valuing the permission they’re giving you too. You know, if somebody does give you permission to bring their wrist that’s having responsibility not to abuse that to respect your audience and ah, be very thoughtful about yeah, and should you even go there if you don’t have that permission, which most organizations probably do not. This is all so new. And just because, you know, you might technically grow a list. Um, i think that’s an awareness you have tohave now with with text, communications, one of organizations that have been successful for advocacy with these, you know, sms campaigns and, you know, text to give you may have a growing, you know, lets the phone numbers you, they’ve given their permission, but maybe they don’t recall or they didn’t really understand ah, quite what permission they were giving, you see really have to be very careful with that. You don’t wantto attacks those relationships. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, so what’s, terrible is i just, you know, i just see that as something to be aware of that, you know, there notifications are becoming, you know, in the next five to ten years, it’s an increasing space, that people are conscious of day today, and there is an opportunity to create a good, you know, it’s, an interesting experience of engagement. Way to be very thoughtful about it. Outside. Kind of think. It’s kind of on the horizon is a very thinking about onda. Respectful of the relationship. And the permission you have been given, basically, is your point. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon, craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and they only levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests are there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Let’s. See? I mean, do you still sticking with the wearables? Do you see that having value in particular sectors? What do you really think in there? Yeah, another kind of area. What ideas? Air occurring to you? Yeah. Another area of wearables relates to kind of well, i mean, everybody, they’re google came out with this thing called glass, which everybody was, you know, it kind of made everyone look like a yeah, but i tried one of those in-kind try it. But there was a friend of mine in new york who was one of the selected beta testers, i guess. Okay, so i had it on for five minutes or something. Yeah, it was cool. I talked to it. Yeah. So, you know, i saw stuff in the lenses. Yeah. Did it really go? Is really taking off the way everybody thought it was going to. I think the expectation was, you know, people got excited. Oh, everybody’s going to have a camera right in front of them. And you know, another screen there looking at it, you know? Ah, you won’t know that i’m you know, teenagers watching. Yeah, you know, breaking bad right in front. Of without mom knowing stuff like that. But the specialized experience for for ah, you know, that premise is about augmented reality, you know, engaging with with a task that you’re that’s in front of you with cem, helpful data or instruction, you know, available that you may have, you know, it’s that it’s more healthful have literally over laid on your on your vision for a specialized task, so it didn’t really take office must really take offers. All the early press is saying a revolution that’s i mean, i see that you asked about, you know, area’s fields where that could be helpful. I think in specialized fields, medical fields in you know where you need unique expertise, maybe in the in the field microsoft has a something called collins coming out and hollow, hollow, hollow lands like a hologram and the kind of really demos they’re just, you know, kind of whiz bang looking. But some of them are very practical, like they had. They had one demo where it was about teaching someone howto repair a light switch in their home, which doesn’t seem like a huge deal. But you could i could imagine you habitat. For humanity, coming up with holland’s demos for, you know you could maybe not need ah, you know, construction as many construction supervisors on site kind of doing involves years writing it as you’re watching it in your in your lens, maybe for howto latto spackle on yeah or tech support, you know, amazon has they have a set of ah, technically, you know, help support kayman what it’s called, but, you know, if you have an amazon tablet or fired-up well, whatever they have, if you get hit a button and then there’ll be, someone pops up on the screen and, you know, you say, you know, i don’t know how i tried to rent this movie and what’s going on, so i can imagine you could, you know, you could be doing some specialized task for for your free dramatic work, um, and carla, somebody with you, teo, you having trouble site from the troubles? You what you’re what you’re dealing exactly where you are immediate help? Yeah, i mean, i could see, you know, if you’re we’re here than non-profit technology conference, you know, maybe you have a navy volunteer who’s setting it, trying to set up radio and streaming set up for your for your live event on they’re having trouble, they could, you know, but on their hololens or whatever, and and have somebody help them literally. You know, figure here is that you know, i i don’t have audio xing the person routines, but somebody helping guys person helping you could see. And you can see them. And they can talk you through andi. Actually, you can do it as their asses were on with them. What is ibeacon? Ah, i beacons are kind of ah, there. It’s a sensor. You know, it’s related to it’s kind of a more granular location sensor. So we have gps, which are satellites that can, you know, peg your location. Ah, as a data point within, you know, i think it’s a few meters or something, maybe even like, twenty meters and ah, we have that there. Yeah, like there’s. Like location tags. Where i guess you’ve been in like a store. The shoplifting tags stop you from taking things out of the store. They know some radius of where that item is in the store. Ok, so i begins. Can they work? I think mostly off. Of the new bluetooth technology on bacon triangulate you within a space within a room. So if if there were i beacons in this room and we kind of tapping into that network on our devices, that could know where, where this device is within inches. So what’s interesting about that, to me, is the opportunity to create an experience, you know, a curated experience for for a space. So if your ah the most immediate, you know, application i see now is for museums where it’s very important, where museumgoers are in the space heimans what caught content that they were going to receive? Ah, what they’re you right, you what they’re going to receive, you know, if you’re here sharing as they moved through the experience, what what added value can you can, you know, perspective on the history of the pieces that, you know, they’re seeing or scientific information on the exhibit, you know, they’re looking at based on where they are, but also, you know, maybe the past they went through that’s how people interact with your contract, and now they’re gone, you could, you know, takes a lot of ah, resources, maybe to do this. But you could you could, if you could take that person’s path through your your space. You could say, you know, everybody who spent and really went through the butterfly exhibit, um, without them, you know, checking off a box. They’re raising their hand, or already, you know, send them all an e mail about our butterfly research or taylor this donation request to that group, which you could only do if you know they’ve, you know you have you have you have the space pegged with eye begins to be able to know where they are, and you have some request. Maybe at the beginning of the you know, the entrance way, you know, let us know, let it let us have for these permission way track. You’re right your your time through through our collection, right? Ok, but you’re going to start to see these around. I mean, there’s, it’s, it’s a little bit. It it goes back against that same permission thing, but also you know that that lack of consumer awareness about the data that is around there for us already, you know, it’s a little spooky sometimes, but, you know, if you’ve ever i don’t like sunpass or metro pass on your car. Sure, you know, there’s that if you have a subscription, uh, you know, to pay the tolls quickly, right? That is actually that’s, not the only place where that gets picked up. When you go in that little devices always picking out your saying, here i am, unique, the same thing that that’s on isn’t that how we find out what traffic l a is like ahead on our gps? Yeah, and there are implications for law enforcement using it for potentially determining speeding all kinds of things. But then also traffic volume, right? Right. So so but the permission you gave in in one location with ivy dickens, right? Yeah, that could be carried in other locations. Right. So if if if there’s a reciprocal relationship between, you know, the museum and other places in the city when they know, you know, send you could segment. Teo, the people on your list who are, you know, frequent restaurant. Goers that, you know, the stone, yeah, restaurant, whatever. You know, you know, and you know, you get, but you’ve got to know that that permission was granted. I mean, you’ve got to know that you’re granting that. Maybe maybe. I think, when you go through the butterfly exhibit, doesn’t, that doesn’t need to be disclosed. Well, i think they’re going to disclose to our partners were going to share with certain partners, and you’ll receive offers related platforms that are that are being set up for, you know, the way that it gets implemented. It’s a tricky thing, because the museum, you know, the point of permission may not even know the cascading effects of that permission. But that’s very risky that well, okay then they’re not fast drinking there don’t think they’re protecting their their constituents adequately if they don’t even know it’s very thoughtful of that air’s alright, we have just about a minute left. What do you want to wrap up with you? Time flies on non-profit sure does with with what’s what what’s, wearable and mobile and what non-profits should be thinking about. Yeah, i mean, i think my big takeaway with this is, you know, there there are some interesting technologies out there, but you should be very thoughtful. Make sure that what what you’re investing your time and resource is our in isn’t isn’t shiny object like you mentioned is gonna have a real specific value. Add for your audience. Um be thoughtful about the the comfort level of your audience in community, engaging with that technology and the maturity of the platform you know, there’s there’s, a few different i beacons there’s, there’s a few different, you know, implementations of that. So you wantto ghisolf about which? One you choose, make sure it’s one that you can support over the long term, as you have to continue to maintain that technology on be thoughtful about the hidden costs you know you, eh, it’s, not just the spend to implement and set up whatever you’ve started, you have to support it. You maybe have to train your staff. You have an ongoing communications, maybe you, you know, bee you’re likely going to need to generate and continue to develop it. So being thoughtful about those hidden cost and how you’re going to measure those and evaluate your success. Brovey kaplan he is director of online strategy for radcampaign brovey, thank you very much. Thanks for having me, tony. My pleasure. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference and t c twenty fifteen. Thanks very much for being with us. Thanks to everybody at in ten the non-profit technology network and and t c i love being there next week. Tomb or auntie? Si interviews embrace emerging social media and you’re content strategy on those new channels. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it on tony martignetti dot com. Where in the world else would you go? Opportunity, collaboration, the world convenes for poverty reduction. It’ll ruin you for every other conference, and that really is the truth. Opportunity, collaboration, dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liber, which is our line producer, shows social media is by susan chavez, susan chavez, dot com and this terrific music is by scott steiner. Brooklyn. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. 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When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine am or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you gotta make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealised took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. 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