Tag Archives: Michael Hoffman

Nonprofit Radio for February 17, 2017: Don’t Burn Out In 2017 & Personalized Video

I love our sponsors!

Do you want to find more prospects & raise more money? Pursuant is a full-service fundraising agency, leveraging data & technology.

It’s not your 7th grade spelling bee! We Bee Spelling produces charity fundraiser spelling bees with stand-up comedy, live music & dance. It’s all in the video!

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:


My Guests:

Paul Loeb: Don’t Burn Out In 2017

Paul Loeb

Paul Loeb has been doing social change since the Vietnam War and his most recent books are “Soul Of a Citizen” and “The Impossible Will Take a Little While.” After nearly 50 years of activism, he has a lot to recommend about keeping yourself motivated day-after-day, especially in a time when nonprofits may suffer federal cutbacks. We talked at Opportunity Collaboration 2015 in Ixtapa, Mexico.





Michael Hoffman & Jono Smith: Personalized Video
(L to R) Hoffman & Smith at 16NTC

Are your videos engaging? Do they deepen your donor connections? Are you taking advantage of video personas? Is video part of your donor onboarding and retention strategies? If you answered “no” to any of these, Michael Hoffman and Jono Smith can help you. Michael is with See3Communications and Jono is from Make-A-Wish America. We talked at the 2016 Nonprofit Technology Conference.



Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

Get Nonprofit Radio insider alerts!

Sponsored by:

View Full Transcript

Transcript for 327_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170217.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-11T23:53:20.493Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2017…02…327_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170217.mp3.818671787.json
Path to text: transcripts/2017/02/327_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20170217.txt

Oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer with ad elect assists if you deflated me with the notion that you missed today’s show, don’t burn out in twenty seventeen paul lobe has been doing social change since the vietnam war, and his most recent books are soul of a citizen, and the impossible will take a little while. After nearly fifty years of activism, he has a lot to recommend about keeping yourself motivated day after day, especially in a time when non-profits may suffer federal cutbacks. We talked at opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen in x top of mexico and personalized video or your videos engaging and deepening your donor connections. Are you taking advantage of video personas? Is video part of your donor onboarding and retention strategies? If you answered no to any of these, michael hoffman and jonno smith can help you. Michael is with c three communications and jonno smith is from make a wish america we talked at the twenty sixteen non-profit technology conference on tony’s take two is your thanks sincere? We’re sponsored by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers we b e spelling dot com here is paul lobe with advice on not burning out. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration twenty fifteen we’re back on the beach in x top of mexico with me is paul lobe he’s, the author, most recently of soul of a citizen and the impossible will take a little while, plus three other books before those those two have sold over a quarter million copies, you’ll find paul lobe at the impossible dot org’s polo. Welcome to the show. Glad to be here. Thanks. I’m glad we’re together on the beach. I want to talk about avoiding burnout. A lot of your work for decades. Going back to the seventies is in activism. Citizen activism, right? Um, taco, actually, let’s. Start with a cool story that i heard you tell about rosa parks. So it’s. Interesting. Because rosa parks is the sort of story that everyone thinks they know. You know i can go. I can be overseas and people know the name i can talk to eleven year olds and they know the name. Oh, yeah. She’s the lady on the bus. But what’s interesting to me is that most people know in a certain version and they know it as one day she was writing on this bus and sort of just feed retired. She just refused out of nowhere and single handedly launched the civil rights movement. You know, all by yourself is this lone heroic woman. And i get very frustrated when i hear that story because it strips away the context that’s so important understand that actually is much more empowering that that story and so i look in there several elements there’s the one he is that’s, their mistake, the element of community. So she at that point is the secretary of the end of the civil rights organization in montgomery, alabama. And she has worked for dozen years with the p co founded by her husband. That particular chapter was a barber in the city and she’s doing these sort of humble towns, like getting people to come to meetings and all the stuff that certainly is not going to make the history books. Or the network news or even page six of the local paper. And when you take that away and you take out all the other people that she’s working with, it becomes a sort of lone crusade, which is very much a mythology of our culture. I mean, you know, one of things i sometimes bright lad in the language around social on ownership is lone hero super person. Yeah, but she’s, part of a community that she’s built there’s, others in it. There’s ah, a union organizer, gotomeeting nixon who’s, the head of the local. At that point, he’s, the person who gets a very young and relics on martin luther king involved king is all these excuses. He’s young he’s, new in town is thing was reluctant to join. He was reluctant to join. Yeah, he’s reluctant step for we think of them as leaping forward, but at that point, he has not really fully he’s not embraced that path. He’s still, you know, well, i i’ve got divinity school. I’m going to be a minister and it’s not at all clear that that’s going to be his direction. So he’s looking, i think warily at it and there’s a phrase i used the perfect standard, which is the notion that you need to know everything be the perfect place in your life, be the combination of sort of albert einstein, gandhi, king wonder woman, mother grace, you know, add seven other people, you know, none of us is ever going to get there so and it’s also about the perfect time and place and, of course, he’s saying, well, it’s, not the perfect time in place. I’m too young, i’m do knew all the excuses, you know, in his case elements of truth, but he’s their excuses. And so it’s nixon, who persists, gets king involved, and montgomery is where the world hears the king as well as in rosa parks. So when you strip that away and you make it the long hero, it ends up, i would say, being very disempowering to people, even though think it’s an inspiring story because they have to be as her work as a perceived princessa rosa parks perceived rosa parks as opposed to the real heroism which is doing the stuff day after day after day. Um, and then the second element is that they think it is. A sort of accidental action one day, her feet hurt, but there she wasn’t. The first person refused to move to the back of the bus. There was a young woman who was actually unmarried and pregnant. They just died not from the youth section, not to build a campaign around because they’re up against enough as it is latto strategic decision and these parks had got the summer before arrests, going to trainings at a place called highlander center labor and civil rights center still going in tennessee despite being burned at once by the group klux klan and so she’s meeting with an earlier generation of civil rights activists smaller move but still certainly present and when she acts it’s intentional, intentional doesn’t mean she knows the outcome. I always said that there’s a two, two aspects one is, you’ve got to have a leap of faith. The minister, jim waller’s, from the social justice magazine sojourner, says hope is believing in spite of the evidence and then watching the evidence change. Yeah, so, you know, by your actions, you change and you have believe it faith about the possibility, but right next to that is intentionality, which just means you’ll be strategic. So you’re looking at you’re saying, ok, what do want accomplished? How do we get there? Who are allies are the obstacles? How do we get the resource is how do we carry it out? How do we tell our stories? All the practical stuff? Of course they had to deal with that montgomery and and when parks took that leap, she also knew that it was going to be part of intentional campaign. They would run his best they could. And, you know, they’d see where lead and it is. Yeah. I love the story because of the intentionality aspect, and that leads us to the social change work the people are doing now, right? And where we get to the potential for burn out in all this day after day after day after work that is so intentional and so time consuming, right? And and so and so emotionally fraught. And the stakes could be life and death and disappointing. Yes. And i just ate pointing. Yeah, yeah. You know, never enough resource is all of those kinds of things. So so i think there’s a third element. That’s missing is perseverance, which is okay, you know, twelve years, if she gives up in your tender rate, we’ve never so and so and so that that carries into that question of burnout persisted. You have to keep going. So let’s spend some time talking about sort of empowering people toe, right? Not burn out in their day to day work as they’re going about their struggles. Where? Wherever in the world yeah, you, uh you believe a lot in, uh, support and they do, and the disempowerment of isolation isolation is the killer. I mean, when you feel like you’re the only one you’re up against every but when you change it to okay, we’re up against a lot, but there is a way and the wii doesn’t have to be thousands of people. It can be three or four people that are the ones that you rely on, but it’s so easy. I mean, i i find myself i run a project that i found it that gets students engaged in elections using the resource is of the colleges and universities. Shut that out. What’s the name the campus election engagement project. Campus elect a door ad it’s really demanding on dh. You know, resource is and on also sometimes, you know, really hard personnel situations and, you know, because this comes up, you hire people and sometimes problems like you and i remember one particularly acute situation, which really, wass i mean, it was just the kind of thing we are going to details that just wrenches your heart wrenches your soul on it had the potential to destroy the organization and and just trying to deal with my own. And then, you know, call. I talked to a friend who we have really wonderful street newspaper in seattle where i live real change that where homeless people sell it and it’s partly professional staff partly almost poses a great model. And, you know, i just called my friend who who ran it was like, ok, tim, why don’t i d’oh it’s like, you know, you really you know, this is something that you can’t you’re not large enough to handle the son, you know, you know, when you know, you just hear this, you have to be ableto, you know, hard as it is to say, this person can’t be apart the organization because, you know, it’s just this otherwise you’ll be in constant crisis, so we need to have support. Yeah, it could be it could be colleagues similarly situated right in the community or across the country, right? Yeah, could be, yeah, with funders even made the tech with the technologies we have, you know, it doesn’t have to be geographically focused. Yeah, but you do have tohave and you have to have a team of folks. I mean, on the other side is we’re doing, like, i mean, i’m asking people in my election project to basically take the culture of us college or university, get access to the administration, and we go in through sametz works that they tend to work with, but even still, you know, and the student government convinced them to do something that they haven’t done before, or now that some of them now they have done because they worked with us, which is to make a priority of registering their students to vote and getting to reflect on issues and helping them turnout at the polls in all non partisan is this school has to be done lorts ad and i mean, we’re just think, okay, here it is, here’s how we’ve done it before go do it and so it’s hard. So, you know, part of even like working it’s harder working virtually, but we have our conference calls each, you know, in the heat of it every week and me, we’re gonna do a video or we don’t go hang out or whatever, and we’re supporting each other. We’re appreciating each other’s successes were brain streaming through the through the project. We also have coaching the cohesion in the group is what sort of were being extremely were being extremely intentional. The cohesion doesn’t happen automatically were laughing and making jokes talking about, oh, did something cool happened in your personal life? Two be able to sort of give people the sense that it’s not just because in our particular case, they really are physically on their own there’s not somebody in an office, but they’re off on a college campus know weather off where they happen to live, and then they’re either talking by phone or visit making site this is tow campuses, but they don’t have the calling next to them. So we try and very intentionally create that community because otherwise they would they will burn. Out, you’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. Fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Dahna about in in recruitment, there’s gotta be there’s gotta be things that you look for bringing people to the organization that are going to help create this cohesion, you know, it’s a good question, i’m not, and i wouldn’t say i’ve always been perfect at it. I would have had my share of a fallibility, but i do think that, you know, as i learn and we all do, you know that being able to i mean, have a strong sense of self but also know that you’re not going to do it all on your own know that you’re going to be working with others no, that have a sense of humor. I mean, if you’ve got a sense of humor, helps help cement slim and you see people in just, you know, dealing with the hardest i lost the vote, heart wrenching situations and there’s a sort of i mean, somebody called gallows humor, which french trenches humor has in-kind wartime or whatever guys get you through it’s so important in prison culture, they talk about the brotherhood of suffering, yeah, it helps to be that cohesive group, right? And so, you know, one of the stories i tell in the impossible, take a little while. Um, is, you know, they’re breaking it robben island prison in south africa, you know, they’re telling mandela and all those other folks, you know, you are going to rot here, the world has forgotten about you, you will never leave here alive, and they isolate him in every way they can. And so they’re breaking rocks in a prison courtyard, and they start whistling a freedom song and just just that, you know, okay, we’re not allowed to have this political conversation, but we all know what this means, and they’re they’re ice. They’re denied newspapers and, you know, further isolate him. And they said guard who’s got his tuna fish sandwich wrapped in a newspaper and throws, you know, sandwich stores in his paper in the trash, take it surreptitiously under their shirt. They see a story that they think might give each other heart and in a kind of coded script on toilet paper’s only paper, most of them had access to the right, you know, just something that will tell that story of the outside world so that people are connected to the outside world to each other. And then they pass it hand in hand, you know, when they’re waiting, you know, had lunch or whatever the damn chance or in the yard. Yeah, so it’s just it’s those air extreme situations, but they also suggests to me that and this is the lesson of both soul of a citizen and be impossible to take a little while, but that in any situation, you know, you don’t have to be faced in prison. But if you’re doing difficult work, you need that camaraderie. You need that community. And you have gotta be we know recently intentional about trading it about, uh, the scope of the work of the organization being judicious about what the organization takes on, right. So it’s not straying from mission and and stressing stressing in killing staff? Well, yeah, i think we are. I mean, i think we all face that challenge because if you’re trying to do something, i mean, i was the needs are so great, the needs are so great, and i always encourage people to think really large and to tackle big systems on a lot of times. There’s a tendency to sort of yeah, which i describe it. It’s i think there’s a value in that more delimited personal work, it’s i don’t want to demean it in any way. Hyre but i remember stanford students saying very well meaning lee, i’ve learned so much volunteering at this homeless shelter, i hope my grandchildren get the opportunity to volunteer at the same homeless shelter that i have and as his friends sort of try to gently remind him that really wasn’t the point. And so if you’re working at the homeless shelter, which is great, you wantto look upstream and you want to be able to say, okay, what am i learning from this one on one encounter? And how do i buy-in with others and join together others to tackle homelessness on a larger platform? Because if you don’t it’s just going to the endless parade of need, so i think that that’s true and at the same time well, where do you draw the bounds? And you look around the issues and there’s poverty and inequality and climate change and, you know, on and on and on, you know, police violence, i’m not stone on on on how do you deal with all of it? And so i think part of it is just you do have to think about what your capacity is. You do have to think about the past people. I tend to be somebody who thinks large and tries to get my project on staff to think large and probably, you know, maybe drives them a little too hard. But by national directories is wonderful. Twenty eight year old is pretty good at balancing, like, all right, you know, this is what we can ask people to do. And if they do it, well, that will matter. But i have this wonderful friend who i nufer years who died at a hundred to is an environmental activist. And of course, you know what time she reaches her. You know, late eighties and nineties, you know, you’re asking your weather sees her secret of longevity is certainly but also her secret of being able to keep doing this work. Yeah, on and so, you know, one of the phrases she does that you know, you you do what you can, you can’t do everything you have to say no to people, but you can do what you can and then you could do some more and you could do that your entire life. And then she also another point she was talking about reviving our spirits and she said, you know, you go kayaking, you go hiking, she both into her nineties and she gets the mist of a smile and she says, then you come back ready to take on exxon, you know, so she’s willing to take on exxon, but she also knows that she has to go do those other things to renew her soul, you know? And, you know, and humor and just she and this sort of goes to the recruitment to you, right? You recruiting hole people? Yeah, you have other interests beyond the work that you’re you’re hiring them for your not recruiting robot? Yeah, no, absolutely. And so i think having, you know, having people who really are just i mean, it’s hard because i always want people who are passionate about the cause, but also but not one dimensional, but no one dimensional. Yeah, yeah, and not, you know, we’re not recruiting robots aboutthe aboard as potential support you, you know, in times again, times of burnout, we’re not talking about your fiduciary responsibilities. But hyre valuable to have a couple of trusted board members who, you know, i would you can’t trust confide in i mean, i would say the trusted people can be anywhere, so i think, you know, if they’re on the board that’s terrific, you know? And there was also i mean, sometimes you sort of worry, will you exposure in, er, you know, the afraid of the classic phrase about politics and sausage making it’s like you really don’t want to see how the sausage is made? I mean, there was there was at least those those sure are meat eaters and made sausage sometimes i really don’t want to see how it’s made and, you know, do you expose the inner workings that boardmember than thinking, oh, my god, this is like, you know, we’re in crisis, we’re in crisis, you know, you know, and the same thing’s true with funders, i mean, certainly myself, you know, there’s funders who i have a very serious, trusting relationship who really do want to know and who i trust if they recognise that, oh, everything is not going perfectly, but this is true in any organization and is not and he’s, perfectly compatible with doing astounding work, you know, i remember i had a staffer once was running operation brilliant, brilliant guy and you, you know, innovated. A lot of the things that moved us forward is an organization, but at one point he liked the plan, which is good because he brought. He brought us to a higher level of planning, and planning is really good. But at one point, he said, it’s supposed to election is that you planned all this stuff out and, you know, it’s all going out, it’s all happening, different blade, yeah, and i’m like and yes, and that’s always going to be the way it iss. It is gonna happen differently, and the planning was good and it makes us respond, you know more effectively, but there’s always going to be if you’re doing anything worthwhile, ambitious enough to be worthwhile, there are always gonna be things coming in from left field on her balls and what not and it’s just. How about sort of going backto what the one hundred two year old activist saying she kayaks, etcetera, right? And he’s mischievous? I mean, i remember a lot of us hundred to you talk. I think there are like he was busy in your party little chablis apartment lived on second, section eight subsidence dilgence social security, which, when she was twenty three years old, as a young union activists, should help lobbied through one of the first public pension programs in america became a model for social security, so something she did in twenty three or four benefits there are ninety eight, ninety nine, one hundred, and i think her i can’t see what she was talking about her landlord and said, well, you know what? If something happens, you know? Yeah, just dig a hole in the backyard. I’m pretty small. I don’t take up my face, you know? She just was she didn’t know there was one point there was was in central america, something there was a congressman she met. She was very active with the audubon society and and who very condescendingly in the way that when does towards the old than the young sort. Said to her, oh, so i hear you’re a birdwatcher like, isn’t that? And she said, yes, there’s a lot of birds in washington d c that need watching these days, but i was thinking of the kayaking, she she takes care of herself, she takes care of its just got this wonderful sense of humor, right? And she’s a kayaker and yes, you know, so having similar to recruiting people who aren’t one dimensional, not being one dimensional yourself. Yeah, i mean, you do have to take care of yourself. You do. I’m a big proponent of naps. Yeah, i’ve blogged about the the the the love i have for napping. But whatever it is, you do need to have something outside. Yeah, yeah, i know it and it’s true. And, you know, and again, i think we all wrestle with i mean, i certainly wrestle with that it’s like, you know, on, you know, my wife’s going out to see a play. I’m she works very. She works very hard, but in a more contained space probably dad, you know? And i’m like no, i got this deadline. I got to do this, you know? But, you know, if i over the years on a runner and run in my early sixties and been running since i’m fifteen and fortunately, my knees haven’t given out and so, you know, if i go run, i also live in seattle, so i get to run by water, but, you know, if i’m traveling, lecturing on the road, it’s, like i take a break, which because i met town, make my living, you know, i take a break and i run along usually if there’s water around, i’m going to run along the river or the stream of the, you know, whatever the lake and it just, you know, physically, it flushes me, you know, they did toxicity out of you, but it also just, you know, it gives you a space and it’s it’s, you feel better afterwards? Endorphins, there’s lot to be said for endorphins, flood flow. All that stuff suppressing the stress hormones. Yeah, yeah, i can think of offhand. Well, no, gentlemen. One of them? Yeah. Suppressing those. Yeah, and building up endorphins. And yet, yeah. And i think also things like diet. Yeah. He’s getting enough sleep? Yeah, yeah. I mean, i called. I mean, i called the holy trinity of, you know, exercise diet, which includes, um, good supplements. Yeah. Ok. And after? Yeah, not not on the suicide. Very practical. And you know what? Yeah, you are dealing with serious dressed. This will help. Uh, this will lower your cortisone there’s. Another right doesn’t stretch on and, you know, and sleep, were i my sleep tends not to be that great. So i just figure okay, i’m gonna log nine hours to get a where you get seven and a half, okay? Yeah. And, you know, and that helps about switch gears a bit to the teo donor-centric team. It don’t, er burnout, right? You know, i’ve been doing this. I’ve been supporting this cause a long time. I feel like it’s time to move on. I need any advice around that. Well, i think part of what happens is people have this constant pressure to sort of see the quick short term results and a lot of times howard’s in new york by accepting the impossible take a little while the greatest story. And he talks about the optimism of uncertain. You don’t know when the moment will turn you go backto parks. Of all, the wasn’t like she was doing lots of things for twelve years, as they all were one of them little spark, but you couldn’t anticipate which and so i think, it’s very it’s, very easy to sort of say that success is for human dignity that we’ve had were inevitable civil rights movement. Of course, eventually they would have revealed gay rights in eventually. Well, our environmental challenges open question whether we will be able you do what we need. Well, we are able to do what we need climate change, but they have the will is yeah, the will for it. I mean right now, you know, the technology is there, renewables have now passed, you know, they are cheaper than coal, there are equal with fossil fuel without any externalities at all. And you know, when next molly’s it’s not even close. So but will we have the political will? I don’t know, um, it depends on us and you and the stakes are pretty ultimate because, you know, we’re talking about the habitability of the planet. So you know, when i when i look at it, you know what i what i see is donors being subject to the same schools is the rest of us buy-in possibly possibly in a more mediate wet because they’re not actual sum of money, but a lot of making sure they aren’t in the field, they’re they’re dealing with, you know, with them, you know, then the publicans of hands, possibly and it’s so and they’re getting reports, but they may not even have time to read the reports and, you know, depends on how good the people are a storytelling and so i think and, you know, let’s be honest, at least on some issues, they they may be insulated by privilege, they’re not, you know, they’re not seeing in their social circle, and i remember talking with one of our funders, and she said, well, she has a couple different pieces, like one of her groups, they are just not always down in silicon valley, they are just not at all concerned about this stuff at all and, you know, so she’s an environment that is not reinforcing her concern. Yeah, and that’s what? You know, that makes it harder to continue as a donor, then everyone’s talking about these urgent issues and oh, yeah and, you know, here you are, so you’re trying to address them, so i think you know, the challenges well for the rest of us, to try and offer that perspective in our work, which is hard because we’re often mean again, the stakes couldn’t be life and death, you know, they’re huge, even if they’re not immediately life and death wait care passionate about our families to myself, it’s like this is what we can do, and we want to put these many people on the ground in our states in time to really work with the school’s for this election and the clock is ticking and, you know, so, you know, from the donor perspective, if you want to try and really see that long term, you know, i mean, and of course, you want to be rigorous and you want all the rest of this stuff, but not get but see that long term goal is his long term goal recognized the the the short term, the short term impacts we can have, right? And but you also see the longer the wait and see how things build on the other thing i think is, you know, there’s a certain, you know, i would argue that our our culture, including certain the non-profit donor intersection, has that has adopted dahna bh session with certain kinds of measurement to the detriment of other kinds of metro meant measurement. And so it’s, metrix, metrix, metrix, metrix and i mean, i mean, i’ve been seattle in a city where it’s particularly talks, because we’ve got a tech culture, and yeah, some of the numbers could be exceptionally important. There’s, no question about that, but here’s, a story that embodies the process of what’s occurring that can be equally indicative. And so when you’re trying to evaluate impact, which is a reasonable in good thing, you want to take that broad, long term picture, and you want to get the understand all the different ripples of a particular organization. You’re supporting our considering supporting. Yeah. That that’s that can be as warm or important. Then then the numbers, you know, and not to dismiss the numbers, you know, but another way of measuring there’s qualitative, this good storytelling as well. Yeah, but, you know, in which can include numbers which can include numbers the air of i mean, you know, when i talked to donors, they know we have some very good numbers on our project. Way from our best calculations. Couple hundred thousand students who voted our last year who wouldn’t have otherwise? This is huge, you know, for a tiny minute budget of well, i have less than half a million dollar budget for that level of impact is amazing. Yeah. Yeah, we just have about a minute left or so you’ve been doing activism. What? Forty some years? Forty something years. It creeps up on you. What do you love about it? Why do you keep forty you? Why so long? What do you love? Well, some of it’s that the work continues to need to be doing dahna but some of it is that you do. I think the old skills and you build a sense of capability. And you can see, things happen that you’ve done or and this is what i would say is that everybody wait the books that i write, try it like impossible and so try to connect people to a broader stream of people working for such for social justice that started way before any of us were born and is going to continue long after we die. And if we feel connected that stream, it can help carry us, and we can help carry others. And to me that’s a lot of what keeps me doing it because it means that not only do i have a community that supports me current time, but i have a community of historical time, which i could see is supporting, and that makes you an awful lot of difference. Follow-up he’s written five books, the most recent our soul of a citizen and the impossible will take a little while you’ll find him at the impossible dot or ge paul, thank you so much. My pleasure. Been a real pleasure talking to you. Thanks a lot. On the beach on the joanie martignetti non-profit radio coverage of opportunity collaboration. Twenty fifteen. Thanks so much for being with us personalized video coming up first, pursuing they have mohr free research for you. This one is a paper it’s their e-giving outlook report. They bring in data from several industry reports, different reports and put it together with their own boots on the ground perspective as fund-raising consultants to give you precautions, opportunities and questions for discussion in your office e-giving outlook report by pursuant and it’s at. Pursuant dot com click resource is than content papers we’ll be spelling spelling bees for fund-raising have you checked out this video? You’ll see live music, dancing, standup comedy, spelling and raising money from millennials it’s that we be e spelling dot com now time for tony’s take two my video this week is, is your thanks since here less thanksgiving, i got two messages that said, thanks, but they added in promotion and solicitation that made them sound less than sincere like here’s an example. Just wanna wish you a happy thanksgiving and ask about your athletic fund-raising i’m kidding like, well, happy thanksgiving to you. And can i borrow five hundred bucks? Have you got all the insurance you need? Uh, might you be in the market for a used car happy thanksgiving i have another example of something less than sincere and a little more to say about sincerity. The video is at tony martignetti dot com that is tony steak, too, from ntcdinosaur sixteen here. Michael hoffman and jonno smith on personalized video welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc this is day three with e san jose convention center, and this interview is also part of ntc conversations. My guests now are michael’s, michael hoffman and jonno smith. We’re going to eat them in a moment. First, i have to shut out the swag item for this interview, doing one each time and this is a t shirt from canopy studios. What i like about this one is the pretty green tag i mean, they don’t just toss you a t shirt and throw it on, but comes a little pretty green ribbon, i should say pretty green ribbon. We had that to the swag pile the three day pile with a small thumb because that’s a soft item, alright. Michael hoffman and jonno smith. Michael is ceo at sea three communications. Jonno smith is director of brand marketing and digital strategy at make-a-wish america gentlemen, welcome to non-profit radio. Thank you, michael. Michael, welcome back. Thank you, it’s. Good to be back two years ago and tc believe was twentieth. Twenty fourteen. Your workshop topic donor onboarding and stewardship using personalized video to create stronger constituent ties and raise more money. Okay. That’s a mouthful. Yes. Let’s, let’s. Start with michael. You’re the c three is a video production company and marketing what’s. What is personalized video? Personalized video is away. Toe put user data inside a video to give every individual a personalized video experience. So it may say hi, tony, in the video and you get a link to that video that’s for you. So it’s almost like mail merge for video. All right, what’s the okay, i have a couple questions. Can this be done on a large scale or were absolutely so we’re not talking about recording an individual video about now we’re talking about tony. Hello, michael. Hell, john, we’re not doing that. We’re talking about automated triggers with a c r m so that we can take any data out of your database and say tony gave fifty dollars, last year. Tony, will you give one? Hundred dollars this year. Or thank you for your gift of x and the ex comes from the database. Okay? And these are called triggers. Within a video, you create a trigger to make the video so it might be a first time gift. Or it might be trying to upgrade you. And then the system will produce a video on the service side and send you a link to a video that has your name in it on way. See that people are incredibly responsive when we are customized to their own experience. How okay, if if i am the person in the video howto my lips sync with each different persons also mostly we don’t do audio we just to text on the screen so it might say hi, tony in ah in words on the screen on then there’s kind of a generic voice over. We have done it with voice and basically the way you do that would be to record, you know, the top two hundred first names, for example, and then and then have a default for names that don’t fit so most people would get you know, something that that says their name. And other people get some default, but usually that’s not necessarily worth the effort, because just seeing your name on the screen and seeing a donation amount or something specific about you, i really had an impact. Upstanding how long have we had this personalized video technology? We’ve been doing it for years, mostly for peer-to-peer fund-raising sofer run, walk and ride fund-raising mostly tto help the person who’s raising the money, who’s just a donor really ask others for money, so it’ll say, you know, tony is walking in the in the important, you know, make a wish event. Yeah, and you should support tony and and so you could just send that video to your friends, and that does the asking for you because most people don’t like to do the asking, and most people aren’t very good at it. So we’ve seen that raise money we’re doing working now with the alzheimer’s foundation and alzheimer’s association, and we’ve done for american cancer society, and we’ve done for autism speaks we’ve done from video reference it’s a very successful company. Did you develop this? We did. Yeah, we did. And there’s other other folks doing it there’s some. Companies that just do this for the corporate side, which is really what got us into the question of onboarding and stored ship on retention because we’re seeing companies like a t and t uses technology to welcome new customers to say hi, tony, this is what you ordered this when you’re billing date is this is who you know and and it keeps people are connected. I saw jonno check his watch. He’s. Well, let’s bring you in there’s a part of this. You know what? I’m speaking at a ten o’clock. Okay. Oh, my gosh. Okay, it’s. Nine. Forty. All right, we’ll try to be mined mindful of that, but i got to get these twenty one minutes out of you. All right, so how is make-a-wish using this? Well, what we’ve done is work with michael’s team to create nineteen in nine different audience personas. And historically, all of our video has been very make-a-wish centric and not focus on our constituents. Oh, and so we created dahna personas volunteer personas medical professionals because they’re very important to our wish referral process, huh? And have rolled those out across all sixty two our chapters in the us. As a framework for them to think about storytelling and video storytelling specifically in a different way. I’m not just talking about make a wish and how great we are, which we are, but we couldn’t do what we do without hundreds of different people to make witches happen. And so by featuring these different personas in our videos, it really moves make-a-wish out of the hero role and more into the mentor role and puts our constituents ahs the hero of our story. So personalized video is just one tactic in a in a bigger strategy, which is to really understand who your donors are and speak to them, you know, clear directly, personally, thoughtfully, yeah, we’ve been just really privileged partner with make a wish on figuring out who those who those folks are today and who they will be in the future and on dh, then to be helping them shift the messaging so that it really speaks to those people in their role. Yeah, it really does mean using their name that speaks to them. Yeah, right, i’m saying, but even outside the technique of personalized video, we’re doing that through all other kinds of content. Development just wanna banding that, you know, the major donor is of this age or is likely to like these things. Then when you start to create content, you speak more clearly to those people, even if you’re not using their name. Okay? And this is one of many channels that you’re communicating with courses altum staying multi-channel sure, all right, you know, you’re specifically using this for donor onboarding and retention or stewardship? How, john, how are you using it in the end? Donor-centric video technique, it’s personalized video is just one tactic that we’ve used around this donor onboarding in sword ship. Oh, okay, but well, you have video personas, though yes, so just a little bit different. We’re not at the point yet where we’re featuring the person’s name in the video, okay, but we’ve just changed the storytelling archetypes, so to speak, to focus on these different individuals and make them the folks of the video instead of it being all about us, okay, makes a lot of sense. All right, so then for onboarding michael, how how are non-profits using it or how might they? Yeah, i i think i think it’s a powerful opportunity. To say when somebody doesn’t action or does a donation to say to them, you know what you just did was really important and organisations are so focused on acquisition all the time, it’s like that new name, that first gift that they forget to amaze and delight their donors afterwards. And so the theory and we’re seeing it again in the corporate world, is that if you treat them well at the beginning and you explain what they did and why it was important, then they’re going to stay with you longer. And so we know, for example, that monthly givers often drop off after a couple months when they see this thing recurring on their credit card, but if you keep them for longer than a few months, they might stay for seven years, so just using different techniques, personalized video being one of them to really speak to them in those moments and say, hey, what you’re doing is really important and here’s the impact that it’s having and here’s people like you who are doing it and doing incredible things and making them part of the story, one of our most important metrics is donor commitment. Score, which is the non-profit equivalent of the net promoter score and we measure that on an annual basis with our donors, you have to explain what the net promote. I have george in jail on sorry twenty martignetti non-profit radio i do not know what the net promoter score is, so and i’m the on the orbiter for jorgen shell. So? So when amazon asks you, how likely you to recommend amazon to a friend on a zero to ten basis, the nines and tens are considered promoters of that brand and the ones most likely to purchase again and to refer amazon and there’s a group that’s adapted that for the nonprofit sector and not only asks, how likely are you to donate to this organization? But are they your favorite charity? Do you love this organization? And they combine those scores to understand the donor’s commitment? And so we measure that on an annual basis and what we’ve seen since we’ve transitioned to the more personalized form of storytelling in general and specifically through video is that our donor commitment scores have started teo increase because the donor’s air really seeing themselves in our stories for the first time and in a long time, okay, and what are some of the other techniques that you’re using alongside the personalized video? So we’ve once we created these nine different personas, we actually built collateral around them for all sixty two of our chapters and developed with michael’s team, a flip book that sits on every marketer and fundraisers desk throughout make-a-wish way have a thousand employees throughout the u s and so having a shift like this and storytelling was a massive endeavor. We didn’t want the personas to end up on the shelf in the office, so to speak. And so literally we put these flip books on everyone’s desk, and when they’re getting ready to send an email or write a direct mail letter or create a video or whatever the case, maybe they can literally flip the persona and remind themselves about their demographics there. Psychographic sw what? What these individuals value so they make sure that they’re truly speaking to these individuals and personalized and segmented way, right? So if you’re writing an e mail or you’re writing a facebook post, you look at those pictures of those people and you say, well, will this person like that was this speaking to them now they’re not it’s not speaking to everyone. It’s, speaking to specific types of supporters donors wish, refers on making that really top of mind all the time when you’re doing content creation. Now the flip books are the persona. Yeah, the nine percent cracked and their posters on the walls and there’s, you know, an idea of like these air, our constituents, we need to be talking to these people, you’re not the audience, these in the audience. So when we think about the language we use, when we think about the things we want to share, when we think about how to ask for for donations, we have to look at these faces and their character, and we have to say, you know, will this resonate with them on dh that sharpens started to sharpen the messaging on, but also diversifies the messaging because it’s not just one one type, so make a wish kind of got caught in talking one way tau one type and the way to grow is really to think about, well, who were those other types that we weren’t speaking too? Okay, and it sounds like common sense, right? People have been talking about being donor-centric and constituent centric it conferences in presentations and white papers for ten years, but the reality is, most organizations have not really embraced that. And although it seems like common sense and doesn’t sound like a controversial idea, it was actually very controversial for many of our chapters, especially those with staff who have been there for ten, fifteen, twenty years. They’ve been used to talking exclusively about make a wish, make a wish being the focus, and when we said no, if we’re going to grow, if our donor commitment scores are going to rise, we need to flip that and people were resistant to that. And so the flip books really helps push that along. What are some of the other personas you mentioned? Doctors, volunteers, major donors? Who some what are some of the other? Sure so we created not only current heh personas, but perspective personas of those who were not currently reaching that we feel like there’s a good opportunity. Two one example of that is a volunteer persona of an older male. Most of our volunteers are younger females, but we thought there was an opportunity with men who are approaching retirement age to become volunteers who helped grant our wishes. A tte the same time, those individuals could potentially become candidates for plant giving, major gifts and so forth. Doctor’s on social workers and child life specialists, or court our mission. And they’re a really difficult audience to reach. Eso, we develop personas for all three of those individuals. And it’s enabled our chapters toe. Think ah, a little bit more strategically, about how they get into the conversation, in hospitals, in treatment centers and with nurses, and so forth. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige nani, author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. I like the idea that it’s not only people you’re dealing with now, but perspective volunteers, for instance, the old er, the old er older guys, yeah, i mean, that was really an important insight that michael’s team helped us come teo and sell internally. Yeah, yeah, and also, for example, it fits in with the diversification of america as well. So, you know, we have a millennial donor-centric perspective dahna persona whose latino so, you know, those air communities that the chapters are starting to connect teo and don’t necessarily have the insight or the language to connect well, and so the persona is help them do that. Jonah, what kind of reactions have you gotten from donors who have received personalized video for whatever stage of their relationship with you? Yeah, so, ah, since we started implementing this about a year ago, ah, pretty much every single metric on our youtube channel has doubled subscribers, engagement, comments, shares, you name it, we’ve, you know, historically are channel had gotten a little flat. Excuse me, are these personalized don’t don’t personalize videos on youtube channel their videos with these personas featured in them on our youtube channel? Yes, not not the ones personalized each individual doesn’t. The person doesn’t go to youtube to watch it. It’s a it’s a private somewhere, as i said make-a-wish e-giving treyz you guys wait, give me a break elearning this now i’ve got about fifteen minutes of forty six seconds into personalized video. You’ve been doing it for years, okay? Yes, yes. Oh, no. Just saying that personalized video where the name appears in it is one tactic that make a wish is not using yet right? And they’re using the broader approach, which is to really see yourself in the video in the broad sense that there were somebody like you on the video, i think that’s having a great impact, i thought you meant they weren’t using them in donor onboarding but you’re not not using that. You haven’t personalized the videos yet, correct. Okay, you too. Metrics have doubled in views in every single way. Yeah, as you know, we believe as a result of changing the storytelling paradigm on youtube. Historically, all of our videos were about the wish, the child’s name, their disease and what they wish for organization centric or when you were talking about being donor-centric exactly, and now they can actually see themselves in these videos, riel live donors, medical professionals, volunteers contributing to our mission. We saw a video in the session that that make-a-wish produced that was these guys who created a polar plunge thing, and then they were somebody said, why don’t you make it a fundraiser? And they raised over five million dollars for make a wish and the video was about they spill it on you, but the video was about them, right? And there the donors on there, the fundraisers in the video was about them. It wasn’t just about the wish kids and the impact they had a huge impact. It had a huge impact on their life, right? They were incredibly moved by it. So this donor-centric heimans techniques is really saying, well, that’s an important story to tell and that impact is valuable, right? The impact on the child is a focus, but that impact on the donor is a real value and it’s something that make a wish is bringing to the world and let’s talk about it. Yeah, i mean, videos like this, i think, really make volunteering and giving contagious because people are able to see themselves in these videos more than they have in the past and they can say, well, if these these two guys from long island put together a polar bear plunge that raises five million dollars from make a wish, why can’t i do that? Why? Why haven’t i done something as simple as that that’s exactly how the ice bucket challenge took off right for for a l s purely organic and it was it was a beneficiary who thought of the thought of it, and it is now obviously took off from there. So in this case, a donor saw it and said, why don’t we do the same thing? So it’s our job to remind people every day how they khun get involved and and stay of involved? And if we’re just talking about us, we’re not going to be able to be doing that. Yeah. Grayce now, general, won’t be respectful of your time. It’s ah, about seven minutes of no it’s. All right, ten. Thirty i’m good. Oh, ten. Thirty. Okay. Okay. Because michael and i could’ve wrapped up in like, the next three, four minutes. But you’re good till ten. Thirty, i speak in ten. Thirty, so okay. Oh, yeah. We’re gonna get you wrapped up in a few minutes. Okay. Um, so we do have a few more minutes left. What what more can we say about this technique? The multi-channel that goes along with think, you know, important thing to say is that there’s a lot of shiny objects here. There’s a lot of technology is there’s a lot of good strategy, but in the end of the day, it all bumps up against culture and capacity. And and so you can say let’s be donor-centric you can say whatever, but if you have buy-in grain silos, if you have people have been doing some things for thirty years the same way that’s, what you’re going to run into, and so well we’re really focused on and what we’ve been working with jonno. And is this culture change and that’s not an easy process? That’s something. But if it’s not built in tow, whatever it is it’s it’s not gonna work. So when we think about strategy, we really think about that culture and capacity and, you know, how are we designing for change? Johnno talk a little about that. Because this this applies not only to a video strategy but really anything new where there are long term employees who haven’t been doing this way. Culture change, we all know, is enormously difficult. How did you bring along the recalcitrant ones? Yeah, absolutely so creating the percentage was twenty percent of the challenge, you know, eighty percent was rolling it out, and we work with michael’s team to create something internally. We call the content strategy collaborative, and we’ve broken our sixty two jap chapters into cohorts of fifteen, fifteen chapters with similar characteristics and are putting them through a nine months virtual learning program where each month they participate in a webinar on a topic related to one of the personas. Then they have personalized one on one coaching with a marketing and fund-raising coach, and then they get back together with their peers at the end of the month in a webinar that we call a share fest, where they share how they’ve experimented and tested and started to implement these personas in their storytelling and their campaigns and it’s been ah, overwhelmingly successful so far, the chapters love the program and have been extremely engaged in it and they’ll be spending literally nine months, five to ten hours per month. Just focused on this for the next year. Yeah. All right, so so there really weren’t people who were seriously objecting because they were brought along in the process and it was it’s a working product is the working process. I mean, even in this program, you know, there’s there’s, people, there’s, you know, resistance to specific things all the time. So it’s ah it’s working through it it’s saying, hey, we never did it that way or hey, look, we have events we’ve been doing our schedule a certain way, and we feel really full, like you want us to do these other things, you know? So that’s it it’s not a straight lying. So the program is great. And it’s moving the needle, but it’s turning a big ship? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Where we want to leave this? We have just like, another minute or so left. What? What happened? We set about it that that we should yeah. I mean, i would just say, ah, you know, every day if you work in marketing or fund-raising the non-profit you’re going to get an email from a vendor with a white paper about being donor-centric you’re going to go to a conference and see all the sessions air about that? But if that’s been going on for ten years, why have things not changed? And, you know, one of my former colleagues used to call it the mission megaphone. All we’re good at doing is sort of shouting our mission, but nobody’s listening, nobody cares what your mission is, that they care about what impact they can have on your mission. And until the sector really embraces this idea, e-giving will continue. Tio tio, grow at a at the small rate that it that it is. And so, you know, i would really challenge all of my colleagues to think seriously about this and start finding ways to implement in their organizations. Okay, outstanding. Thank you. Deep thinking civilization, right. They are michael hoffman, ceo of c three communications and jonno smith, director of brand marketing and digital strategy at make-a-wish america. Gentlemen. Thank you again. Thank you. All right. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of sixteen ntc the non-profit technology conference. Thank you for being with us. That was interesting. I got i got a little confused. I feel like i wasn’t totally paying attention to what michael was telling me. So i apologize for that, michael his first time going through it. Sorry about that. Next week, jean takagi returns he’s, our legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. You know, jean takagi, if you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com, responsive by pursuant online tools for small and midsize non-profits data driven and technology enabled, and by we’d be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers. We b e spelling dot com, a creative, producers clad meyerhoff sam leave uses the line producer. I’m still working on hyre, not am and fm outreach director. Social media is done by susan chavez. On our music is by scott stein. Offgrid me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and i agree. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful posts here’s aria finger, ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dno, two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.

#NonprofitRadio At #15NTC

Wednesday Interviews:

Stop Shooting Videos, Start Unlocking Stories
Sheri Chaney Jones & Yasmin Nguyen

Effective Distance Collaboration
Lisa Jervis & Jeanine Shimatsu

Content Strategy
Bretty Meyer & Katie Carrus

Visual Media For a Social World
Jessica Williams, Emma Chadband Y Jenna Cerruti

Walking Is Work
Beth Kanter & Ritu Sharma

Embracing Emerging Social Media
Lauren Girardin

How to Choose the Right Database
Michelle Chaplin & Laura Quinn

Considering Consulting to Nonprofits?
Julia Reich

Does Your Content Strategy Now Trump SEO?
Elizabeth Beachy

Video Strategy
Bridgett Colling & Michael Hoffman

Thursday Interviews:

Using Tech to Reach Rural or Marginalized Populations
Osvaldo Gomez

Contributing to the Commons: Using Open Licenses
Craig Sinclair & Carly Leinheiser

Staff & Board Buy-In For Your Next Technology Adoption
Norman Reiss & Kathryn Engelhardt-Cronk

The Secret Science of Email Deliverability
Trung Nguyen, Laura Packard & Brett Schenker

What To Do When Technology Isn’t Your Problem
Robert Weiner, Dahna Goldstein, Tracy Kronzak & Marc Baizman

Online Communities That Inspire Action & Generate Results
Megan Keane

Avoiding Disaster: Backup Systems & Disaster Recovery Planning
Darlene Ververka

It’s #15NTC!
Amy Sample Ward

Nonprofit Radio for May 23, 2014: Into Focus Nonprofit Video Survey & Activating For Fun, Celebrity And Organizing

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

I Love Our Sponsor!

Sponsored by Generosity Series, a nationwide series of multi-charity 5K events that provide a proven peer-to-peer fundraising platform to charities and an amazing experience for their participants.

Sign-up for show alerts!

Listen Live or Archive:

My Guests:

Michael Hoffman: Into Focus Nonprofit Video Survey

Michael Hoffman
Michael Hoffman

Michael Hoffman, CEO of See3 Communications, has takeaways from this survey that YouTube contributed data to: What works in video? What doesn’t? How do you measure so you’ll know? Plus he explains why he’s a big fan of Google+ Hangouts on Air. Recorded at NTC in April. df




Matthew Fisher: Activating for Fun, Celebrity and Organizing

Me with Matthew Fisher at 14NTC
Me with Matthew Fisher at 14NTC

Have fun in your social networks, because fun means viral! Also, identifying the VIPs in your networks and empowering your supporters. Matthew Fisher is chief marketing officer for Fission Strategy. Also from NTC.






Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

Sign-up for show alerts!

Sponsored by:

GenEvents logo

View Full Transcript

Transcript for 193_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20140523.mp3

Processed on: 2018-11-12T00:05:21.943Z
S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results
Link to bucket: s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/transcript.results
Path to JSON: 2014…05…193_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20140523.mp3.993271227.json
Path to text: transcripts/2014/05/193_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20140523.txt

Dahna oppcoll hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s, the memorial day show i hope you enjoy your long memorial day weekend, but while you do perhaps keep in mind that many people through the years through the generations have given they ultimate sacrifice so that we could enjoy the freedom that we have today, so saluting all our active duty and veterans and those who have made the ultimate sacrifice remembering them over memorial day, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of dendritic carat itis if i had to see that you had missed today’s show into focus non-profit video survey michael hoffman, ceo of c three communications, has takeaways from this survey that youtube contributed data, too. We’ll talk about what works in video, what doesn’t and how do you know how do you measure? Plus, he explains why he’s, a big fan of google plus hangouts on air that was recorded at the non-profit technology conference in april, also activating for fun, celebrity and organizing have funding your social networks because fun means viral also identifying the vips in your networks and empowering your supporters matthew fisher is chief marketing officer for vision strategy. That interview is also from the non-profit technology conference on tony’s take two, you know, festival del fund-raising that was last week. Here is my interview with michael hoffman talking about thie into focus non-profit video survey welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the non-profit technology conference and t c the hashtag is fourteen ntc we are at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington, d c with me is michael hoffman. He is ceo of c three communications and see three is s e and the numeral three michael hoffman, welcome to the show. Thank you. Good to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you. Thanks for taking time in a busy conference day. Your topic is very interesting and the survey says with e into focus non-profit video report could do for your orc. Tell me about the into focus non-profit video survey. Well, we’ve been working with organizations for many years now around video and non-profits and we always get asked the same questions. What can we do with video? What works with video? How do you do it on? A budget who’s doing the best work with video, all of those kinds of questions, and we realized that there is data about almost everything in the nonprofit world there’s data about e mail and there’s data about social media and there’s data about fund-raising and there was no data about video, and so we went to our partners at youtube. If you’re going to do something with video it’s a good idea to do it with you two is a good it’s, a good name in video, and we went to edelman, which is a a big p r agency, and that works a lot with data and doing reports like this on we got together and we said let’s, find out let’s, find out what people are doing. We did a survey of organizations in north america, we had about five hundred organisations respond. We also got from youtube something they had never released before, which was actual platform data about what non-profits air doing on youtube. So what? Successful there in terms of views and which channels are doing well and all of those things, so we got all of that data. We also did qualitative interviews. We we interviewed lots of folks who are from the executive director position down to the person making videos to the digital managers all about. How are they using video? What did they see working? And we put it all together in this report called into focus, which you can download fromthe sea three website at sea three dot com slash into focus. Okay? And, uh, i presume a lot of what you’re goingto share his lessons fromthe survey, right? What? How should we as we break this down through the categories with survey house, we best approaches for listeners? Well, i think that the, you know, the big question is, you know, do organizations think videos you useful tactic? And, you know, what are they doing with it? And i think overwhelmingly organizations, they’re saying videos important, we need to be doing more but then some interesting gaps because when you ask them, are you budgeting maur? The answer was not know pretty much, you know, that they’re not, and then i think one of the really interesting findings was when you asked them, how do you measure success of video? Seventy three percent on ly measure success anecdotally. Or through views of videos, which is what you see on youtube and, you know what i always tell organizations is views never solved your problem. You’re working to solve views, don’t keep the lights on youse don’t create donation very much a vanity metric, like, like facebook fans, right? Exactly. It’s, it’s, it’s fine to have that kind of metric if it is connected to something that really matters for you. And you understand how it’s connected to that, you know, i think more important than views is whose views you know, are you getting and they lead to other kinds of engagement. So those are the things that the survey revealed when we looked at who’s doing well, we saw that it starts with planning, you know, there’s. So many organizations that say we need to make a video and the question is why? What do you expect to happen? What’s your goals? How is this going to do something for you and the organizations that reported thinking about that and asking those questions? Are the organizations that reported success with video? So the idea that you know why you’re you’re working on it and what your goals? Are is the first step that remarkably many organizations are not you are not taking. Yeah, i think the thinking about the the strategy and the goals that are going to get us there is often i mean, this is not a problem limited tio our shortcoming limited to video, i had guests talked about in terms of campaigns dahna engagement, whether to dio whether to engage in a new social channel or not. All right, i’m seeing this right? We’ve always about not planning shiny object syndrome. You know, it’s, you see, you hear about the newest channel or you think you need something or boardmember tells you that you should be doing something, but it’s not grounded in a strategy, and i think that’s, really what we encourage organizations do is think, what can you do? What should you do, what’s the best way to do that? And to really understand that moving forward to ask the hard questions up front. What advice do you have around the budgeting issue since so few non-profits are aligning budget with their desires around expanding video, right? I like in it too. I feel like we’re in the phase with video. That we were with the web in the mid to late nineties. If you asked organizations you know, in nineteen, ninety six or seven do they need a website? Some would say they have one already. Others would say, oh, yeah, we’ve got to get one because we see this web thing is really taken off but if you told them at the time that they would have a whole department that worked on the web, they would tell you you were crazy. They would say, where in the world could the budget come from to do that that’s impossible that’s a pipe dream and i feel like that’s where we are with video video is eating the web in terms of the amount of content the where people’s attention are the cisco estimates that ninety percent of all internet bandwidth will be video within four years. Oh, my good, really? Yes, on you know, we’re darling, we’re seeing you know the web turn into a interactive tv platform and dahna organisations have to become publishers in the same way, and broadcasters, you know, in the same way that everybody else does on videos a big piece of that and there’s a biggest barrier is a paradigm shifting cultural barrier, which is organizations didn’t grow up needing to do video, so they have no capacity and they’re not. They don’t think that way, and so when they think about video, they think about hiring a firm like ours to make that one big, you know, gala event video or something like that and that’s, not the world we live in, right? The world we live in demands a regular content and so that’s a huge paradigm shift for gin is ations. Oh, you have a bunch of things in mind. What about mobile? As as people are going more mobile? Is that increasing their their affinity for video are decreasing, so they’d rather not see it on a little screen. Oh, actually, the opposite video is the fastest growing mobile service that there is we’re seeing as for g has rolled out across the united states were seeing video. Um, grow incredibly and the other piece about mobile and video is everyone has a high quality video camera in their pocket. That’s remarkable. I mean the quality you see iphone video incorporated into feature films so the quality that you can get from these devices that are in our pockets is amazing and it totally the gates this argument that, you know, we can’t afford to do it it’s really about mind share in time more than it is about we need, you know, big investment dollars to do some video things in addition to having a video production studio in your pocket, you also have a distribution channel in your pocket, right? Exactly. I mean, the revolution of peer-to-peer communications, you know, through social media and the ability to reach people through their social channels and, you know, to be online all the time that way is incredible, it really is. So i’m not saying and, you know, we make great video, so i’m not saying there’s, no need for outside support ever, you know, in videos, but i think of it more like a pyramid, you know, there’s that one great video that’s on your website that explains what you do that you khun keep for five years, it probably makes sense to spend some money and make that really good the day to day content that describes, you know, where you are in a fundraising campaign or trying to get people to be advocates or giving an update about a storm that just happened that you’re working on all of that can happen from your phone from other kinds of equipment that you can have in the office and really should be internal capacity. And so we’re spending more and more time training people about how do you do this and not just camera skills, but really the the strategy piece, which is what should our video strategy be? And how does that make sense? I’ve seen such moving campaigns where the organization asked donors or or even better than donors, people benefiting from the service of the work of the organization. Tell us how you make your own, make your own video turned the turn their cameras to yourself and tell us how our work has improved your life saved your life impacted you enormously. Yeah, i think if you haven’t engaged community video’s a great way to do that, it’s still, for a lot of people, high bar, ask, you know, to produce video, so makoto sharing, for example, is much more popular and easier for people to do than video, but we’re seeing now. With services like vine that allow you to make a six second video or instagram now has a fifteen second video, it becomes much easier toe to do that bond. We’re seeing, you know, cem, entrusting things that general electric. I did a thing about science. They wanted to promote science, which is just connected to their brand. But it’s really kind of a social good thing, and they did something called six second science, and they said, how much science can you do in six seconds? And they invited a community of people you know, publically to do six second videos about science, and then they aggregated those they curated and aggregated those into a youtube video with all these different six second science video and it’s terrific it’s a great way to mobilize your community. I think lots of organizations are are doing that, and many more could be doing that e-giving anything tooting getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternative network get in. E-giving cubine do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants, and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services, a guaranteed to lead toe, right, groat. For your business, call us at nine one seven eight three, three, four, eight six. Zero foreign, no obligation. Free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna duitz is email us a growing frontier for for video? Well, we are seeing some new technologies that will allow email video to be played inside email so without clicking a link but emails a great driver for your community in general, i think if you ask organizational people often, how often do you think your your donors or supporters come to your website? They’re usually wildly inflated numbers from the reality because we don’t normal people don’t go backto organizational web sites, you know, unless you’re drawn there for some reason and the most of the time what’s drawing you there is something that was in an email and email is still the number one digital way to connect with people, and we know that when you say there’s, a video to watch the open rates of email goes up and when you say there’s a video to click on, we know that the click through rates go up so video is the content of the type of content delivery that many people want to have and so thinking about how are we using video? And where is it in our stream of communications? Overall is a n’importe n’t strategic. Question that organizations need to ask compelling moving video doesn’t have tohave high production values are being particularly expensive. Teo in production, right? No, i mean, there are a lot of the videos that get shared that are wonderful and moving our high production value video eliminated, you know, no question, but no, i mean, i think story trumps production that’s what i always say so, you know, if you have that moving story and, you know, you can tell it straight to camera and it’s going to be moving, and we saw that, you know, we see that all the time, really, where there’s things that are just telling the story and organizations have that, and i think one of the demands of being able to do that is for the communicators and organizations to be more connected to those stories within their own organizations, because it’s often not the communicators who are on the ground doing the work that connects them to those stories so they need toe open up the idea that everyone in our organization needs to be a storyteller. So that becomes, again part of this cultural shift that’s going to create, you know, and have an organization thinking of themselves like their media company. They’re they’re a broadcast of publisher where our stories. How are we finding them? How did they float up to our communications folks? How do we decide what make videos about? That path is not articulated very often in organisations, particularly smaller ones. So i think, you know, it starts with just having that conversation and that’s goingto do a lot. But google plus hangouts on air to me that seems like google is giving you the tools to create a a network you, khun broadcast on dh, put your message and and but but not follow the tv model because it’s enormously interactive, you see, promise, i think that’s. Absolutely, absolutely. I think that’s a great point. So when we look at youtube channels, for example, most organizations in ninety nine percent actually one hundred percent of organism growing because i haven’t seen one that’s doing anything different yet they treat their youtube channel like a repository for everything that every video they make, right. So you make a video for a campaign. You make a video for the web site, you stick it on youtube. So you two just a dumping ground for a lot of videos, every channel on youtube that’s really successful, the ones with millions of subscribers and millions of views, and they don’t treat you tube like that as a dumping ground. They treat you too, as ah broadcast channel that needs to have regular content toe build audience, just like your radio show needs to have a schedule and a regular way for people to find it for audience to grow for people to share it. Same thing with non-profit video hangouts on air give you an easy way to create regular content. So the idea that you could do, for example, a show using a hangout where you interview people from the field or experts or donors or whatever it could be ten minutes long. But if you post that every thursday at five o’clock, you’re gonna have an opportunity to build engagement and build audience if you’re putting a video once in a while, whenever you happen to have one on youtube, you have no opportunity to build audience. So i think the hangouts to me is connected to that question of how do we create mohr and regular content you know among the content we created and how, how can a non-profit use youtube in that way to the extent that it allows it’s not as robust is hangouts on here, but you alluded to the most successful youtube channels doing regular distribution have done well, you know, the most successful youtube channels are often individuals who are making videos themselves. I mean, with no crew, no, nothing, they’re they’re shooting themselves with video, they’re editing it themselves and their, you know, and what is it about them? They’re engaging people within? You know, they’re funny or they’re engaging or they’re doing something, and i think organizations need to think about, well, who in our world has that personality? People with personality is exactly the workers on our side. I mean, it’s like into the cooking show people don’t watch cooking shows about because it’s about cooking, they watch it because about personalities or competition or other things. So where is where those people who were those people in your organization? Among your donor’s among your supporters among your clients. Hoo, you go, that guy should have his own show, or that woman should have her own show, those are the people you want to figure out, okay, how do we get them? And hangouts on air is a great free way to start you khun do alive thing and it’s recorded and you don’t have to edit anything, and it goes right on your youtube channel. So that’s an easy way to start, but it takes a commitment, teo, you know, begin doing that, and i think that this there’s so many other benefits to doing that for an organization, right, they’re going to hear more stories that they can use in other places they’re going toe, you know, they’re going to create a certain kinds of internal communications is going to be helpful for them to do an initiative like that and empowering people who don’t think of themselves bad enough that the organization doesn’t think of itself as content creation and producers, but empowering people within the organization, individuals who don’t think of themselves as frontline communicators, teo to, in fact be such exactly. And i think this is connected to the bigger trends that we see around social media. You know, the old model of communications is corporate brand voice, you know, the voice of god. Talking in a hub hub and spoke model, right? So this corporate voice produces content and pushes it out and tries to interrupt people with it. You know, a new model is individuals communicating with each other and it’s a two it’s more than a two way conversation. And so that means that you have to have these channels where people can talk back to you and you engage with them, whether it’s video or whether it’s, facebook or whether it’s any other channel and then also people don’t want to hear from corporate brands. I don’t want to hear from your logo, i want to hear from people. So who are those people? So you need toe pig peek behind the curtain is what i say. I don’t want to see oz, the great and powerful wizard, i want to see the guy behind the curtain, and so we’re seeing he was a hell of a lot more charming and and fund then then the video projection of his of his image. So exactly, and we’re starting to see it. I mean, i saw something recently with a big ngo hyre, you know, had a of some videos at dealing with a storm and instead of saying, you know, we big organization need you to do x, you know, they said here’s, we want to take you inside our war room, about what’s going on and how our planning and so you see all these people who have been up all night, you know, working on maps and all kinds of things happening and and you, as the viewer feel like, wow, they’re people behind this and they’re giving of themselves for it, and i can be part of that and that’s very different kind of communication and, you know, it’s related to ah reduction of trust in brands and maura peer-to-peer communications in general and organisations need to be there or they’re not going to succeed this morning at the opening session of ntcdinosaur wasn’t there, but i know you were there you have the do gooder awards wanted to share with listeners with what that was about? Sure, about eight years ago we started to do gooder awards because we knew with broadband that video revolution was coming, it was definitely coming, and we wanted to take the few organizations that we’re really doing it and jumping. In and doing it well and hold them up as examples to try to encourage everybody else to do it on dh. So we created the doolittle awards a few years ago, youtube came to us and said, can we adopt these awards to become the official wards of the non-profits on youtube? And we said, yeah, you could do that on dso ever since we partner with them, we’ve had wonderful sponsors and partners and ten eyes, one of them and cisco is another and dot sub this year, and nickelodeon and and and other terrific sponsors. And, um, every year at the ntc, we announced the winners. And so any organization that’s on youtube in the non-profit program, i can submit their videos. We have different categories, the four categories that we have our youth media categories. So we’re having young people who are making videos, we have an impact ex category durney that’s sponsored by cisco and that’s. Really about what did that video do so it’s? Not just about is it a good video, but it’s about did it have impact and that those groups have to submit a statement of what the impact wass then? We have a funny for good category because we’ve seen time and time again, the videos that move people to action that move people to share are funny, and we wanted to call those out and they’re fun to watch, and then we have best overall video on dh we can put the links up to these videos, i think we’re on dh point people, but buy-in, you know, they were terrific and, you know, literally the audience today they laughed and they cried and you confined the video’s, all of it, it youtube dot com slash do gooder easy enough, share one of the really poignant moving out, you know, i’m sorry, one of those sort of heart string videos that it sounds like there were a couple of, well, the winning overall video was partners and mental health from canada and a video about teen suicide, and it was the thirty second piece, and the video shows teens very angry at their parents and then slamming the door like running into their room and slamming the door and slamming the door and slamming the door. And then the last time the doors slam it’s actually the mom on. The other side of the door in the room and it says it’s, hard to live with a with a team, you know, with depression, it’s, harder to live without one it’s, a very intense and, you know, packed a tremendous amount of emotion into a very small, you know, time frame. And the funny for good video was also canadian. Remarkably, the canadians have been doing doing great and that’s, actually from the canadian cancer society, and it was about testicular cancer, and it was about checking your nuts. It’s hilarious. And so i definitely recommend you. You go to see it because it’s just it’s funny and it’s taking something that is a serious issue and it’s educating people through humor and i think that’s great. And so, you know, there’s, no issue, really, that you can’t find some humor, and i think it was that a longer one. I would need more than thirty seconds. I was, ah, a minute and a half that would be about my speech all right night. I need a little more than thirty seconds. Let’s leave with listeners with a couple of tips that come from the survey, but how they can be mohr i’ll just say generally effective, and you can choose whether that’s in production or distribution, right? Go ahead. What can we leave? Well, i think that, you know, the one takeaway i would i would want to leave people with is the idea of mohr you need mohr content, you know, we’re in theirs, you have many more channels to put content in. You have social media, you have your website, you can’t rely on a single video anymore, you have to be thinking about more now, more can come from occasionally using professionals to produce videos, but more should also come from being able to grow your capabilities around production as well. And this is important, especially for small organizations. Mork uncomfortable curating videos made by other people. So for example, if somebody was working on the storm in the philippines and they said, we’ve got to go shoot the destruction footage there and it’s gonna cost, you know, all kinds of money, i’d say, well, why would you do that on youtube? There’s a thousand videos that show that really, really well and guess what? All of them allow you to embed those videos on your website and so you can take a video that somebody else made, and you can wrap it in your own wrapper on your website with your own calls, action and utilize something that costs could have cost hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars in particular with documentary film trailers, for example, really high quality stuff on almost any issue is there for the taking, and i would say two organizations make playlists on youtube, which fills out your channel with other people’s video use this video on your website shared in your social media with your calls to action and be wrapped in the halo of somebody else’s great work, excellent! Thank you very much, michael. Thank you. Michael hoffman is ceo of c three communications and how come people follow you on twitter? I met michael underscore hoffman on twitter. All right, tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntcdinosaur profit technology conference. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you very much again. Michael hoffman. Generosity. Siri’s supports non-profit radio. You’ve heard me talk about them. Sponsor’s like them. Help me to travel to conferences like ntcdinosaur last april, and obviously that helps me bring interviews to share with you generosity. Siri’s hosts multi charity peer-to-peer runs and walks, they do all the back end work that you’ve heard me talk about also. And of course, they have the charity support team that helps you to get participants for your five k run or walk, and then also helps you with the fund-raising you mean that’s the whole purpose? So that’s why they have the charity support team. The whole purpose of these things is to get money for your charity. The statistic that they share is that first year generosity siri’s fund-raising exceeds average thirty year fund-raising for charities that do their own events, do all this work and host the thing all on their own so you can skip years wanting to jump right to third year fund-raising they have events coming up in new jersey, miami, atlanta, new york city, philadelphia, toronto, those air all this year, you can talk to them by picking up the phone. David linn, l i n n is the ceo at generosity siri’s and he’s at seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven and of course they are on the web at generosity. Siri’s dot com very grateful for their sponsorship. Last week i was at festival del fund-raising in italy. It was amazing. It was terrific. Great fun to be with about seven hundred italian fundraisers from throughout the country. My session was on planned e-giving which they call legacy e-giving in italy. Very grateful to the festival. President valerio manda rally for inviting me and just everybody’s there was you know what? What italy has as its reputation. Warm, friendly, delicious food and the closing night was a terrific party. There is a video on my on my site. I got some video from the opening night and also from that closing night party that is at tony martignetti dot com many thanks to festival del fund-raising and that’s tony’s take two for friday twenty third of may the twenty first show of the year here’s my interview with matthew fisher of vision strategy from the non-profit technology conference. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of ntc non-profit technology conference twenty fourteen we’re at the marriott wardman park hotel in washington d c i guess. Now is matthew fisher. He is chief marketing officer for vision strategy. The workshop topic is activating your organization’s social network for fun, celebrity and self organizing. Matthew fisher, welcome to the show. Thank you, tony it’s a pleasure. I’m glad you’re here. Thank you. Invite your welcome. Thank you for taking time. Um, okay, we’re ah, we’re going. We’re going to activate our our constituents are social network for fun, celebrity and self organizing. What? What? What is the need around? What do you see that non-profits could be doing better that they’re not doing so so well? Yeah, it’s a big topic in it, you know, fun and celebrity, you’re certainly very different from thie organizing piece that i think most non-profits air, you know, on a daily basis engaged in and, you know, we sort of look at it is taking a new approach to engaging with those advocates and supporters. You know, we’re very versed in sort of the organizing concepts, but we also want to push towards making things fun because ultimately fund means viral and with viral, then we start to see things that you get a halo effect, for instance, when you start engaging celebrities ah lot of folks don’t believe celebrities, you know will engage on social media and there’s numerous examples where that’s not true, but, you know, for us we look at it is, you know, fun is more likely to be shared. It certainly is when when you get into the technicalities of facebook, you know, a drink goes up and certainly your clout creds scores as an influence or go up as things become fun because those are ultimately what we share online. So for the non-profits we really want them, and this is the lesson we want to resonate. We want to think about fun and celebrity in terms ofthe activating these guys to help your cause. Okay, well, let’s, let’s, let’s not get out, celebrity, we’ll come to it. We’ll spend a little time, but thie audience is small and midsize non-profits and and i think the likelihood of getting celebrity is kind of small. Sure. So let’s. Focus on fun and we’ll have a little time on maybe recruiting a celebrity for your cause but on the fun side how do we, uh i mean, how do we identify? What do we know? What’s going? To be fun for our, for our constituents to play with. Well, i think here we have to look at examples that air, you know, have been out in the marketplace and certainly there’s no definition of fun. Yeah, you know, but i think memorable and unexpected are to sort of elements of that recipe. I’m sure a number of people i’ve seen talks by youtube and they talk about what actually makes ah, video fun or viral on they have sort of three core principles there one is thiss unexpectedness and an example they uses, gentlemen, is riding his bike down in new york city and the bike lanes and he’s actually calling attention to a very serious issue, which is construction and hazards and so it’s it’s ah, sort of a monty python play where he’s running into construction trucks and taxis. And so this is something they show is, you know, something that touched in a core issue in new york city and ultimate lead to twenty million plus views of that video? Sort of. The next piece is something they call tastemakers i’ll use the word influences because i think that’s more relevant for us, but you know, touching and getting into something that will allow those influences and tastemakers to call attention to your your cause. And in this case, with videos, they used the example of somebody has shot a double rainbow in the backyard and sort of sat there and and yelled and screamed and couldn’t believe it. Oh, and it had been on youtube for six months and really had less than five hundred thousand views, probably extended family and friends. Yeah, and so but what happened was jimmy kimmel showed it on one of his late night shows, and almost immediately, of course it went viral. And so the key there was not the dennis lee pushed it towards jimmy kimmel, but it caught his eye, and so it really had nothing in it of it, other than sort of a fun, emotional response that we typically see and then the third is ultimately is the copycats that is ultimately what we see with buy-in viral and fun, um example, that is there’s a square cat that an animated story they’ve been going through on youtube on and really only had a couple hundred thousand views. But then as people started copying and reproducing this animated cat with different clothes on different nationalities, different holidays. And so we saw a replication of that. And so we think, sort of that unexpectedness the tastemakers. Oh, and ultimately copycats tragic can work in social media of all types, for fun. Because ultimately, you know, we believe once it gets fun, we have a balance of messaging betweens a serious issue on something that’s. More lighthearted. Yeah, wand. Your examples are well, certainly the bicycle you’re bringing you bring something that’s, light hearted. Teo, as you said, you know, a serious issue in new york city is hazards for for bike riders. So it’s got to relate back to what your charitable mission is all about. Exactly. It’s it’s gotta be it’s. Gotta be somewhat tangential to your issue. You know, the sort of the technicality behind fun or pulling it off actually, obviously is a little bit more difficult, creative. But, you know, the first part of it is, you know, we had vision and attentively are our email based platform. So we we love e mail and we see email is sort of the third leg of that social strategy and the reason is because certainly over the first two legs, certainly the first two legs are, you know, the social media platforms of facebook and twitter, they’re the big beasts, they’re the ones that have the most online time, the most phone usage time on they’ve dominated, obviously, but email has been in, you know, for the last decade has been a major source for online organizing and fund-raising still very important still very, very importantly, open rates. Well, you know, that’s that’s, the challenges that those those open rates in this click rates and those donate rates are dropping because we just have more, more email coming in and are they dropping overall? Absolutely okay, absolutely all right. And so, you know, as part of that third leg, you know, we believe that you know, you’ve gotta activate your full supporter base and there’s a number of people on your email database who our supporters, but not necessarily liking you or tweeting you. And so we really encourage people to look at that because generally speaking, you’ll have fifty times your audience in that email database. Then you will on your social media platforms now, if you get a celebrity a celebrity typically might be someone that we define as a clout score forty and hyre they might have an audience a total audience of three point two million on the reason is because they might have fifty or hundred thousand followers to start, and then they have a high enough credit score that it actually propagates through to their friends and family. But if you take your email database and you actually segmented out and look through there generally three to five percent of your email database actually can outperform one celebrity and the reason you know let’s say more about that, and the reason is because when you take your database, you generally have people who care about your cause and there’ll be a number of people in there who don’t necessarily have the huge following is saying and curry and on what she was able to do in two thousand ten with their her haiti tweet was tweeted the year, but what they are able to do is these are people who have already your message is resonating with them. They may have already donated, and what you see is a sort of one hundred twenty times. Effect and the idea being that if only if you have let’s, say, fifty thousand e mail addresses, you might actually still have an audience of roughly four million because of that effect. But how do you find these three to five percent to are the key influencers or the motivators? So, you know, certainly for smaller email list, you might just be able to visually go through and sort of figure it out manually by looking at their pages or another another way is to use platform’s like attentively, and certainly i’m sure there are others, but the idea being that it actually will match up those e mail addresses to all their social profiles and then scan those posts and pulling all those scores and the idea being that you can actually identify who those folks are and they may not be household names they made, you know, they’re not i mean, we’re down. We’re not talking about celebrity. Yeah, you know, i guarantee you that down at the washington post, there’s, probably forty or fifty journalists who have clouds scores over forty on who we would, we would certainly locally believe a sort of local celebrities, but have that reach because of obviously who they work for, who they are. Okay on, once you’ve identified these, these the top key influencers, what is it you’re asking them to do? How do you do, then approach them? Once you’ve identified, we think approaches that ultimately you’re going to, and this goes back to the engagement issue and challenge with the supporters and donors, when you start to find those people, they’re generally your vips are influencers. And so what you want to do obviously, is, you know, as the title here suggests, you need activate and the way we recognize that is we say that i’m looking at those vips, we actually want to start a segment them down into different groups based on the topics they’re talking about. And so you might have some of your supporters talking about climate change, and they may not follow you, but you might care about climate change and so weak suggests maybe take a baby step and start to follow them or reach out to them via email and say, you know, we’re talking about the same causes here. You want to join our effort, you could like us, you can also retweet some of our issues there and it’s very powerful, because when you’re looking at three to five percent it’s, not a huge number might be only thirty or forty people depending on the size that email list. But again, they still have that reach to get to three or four million people. So it’s it’s quite effective and it’s also something that it’s sort of buried inside your your database or your email platform or your syrian platform. We haven’t mentioned the blogging. I mean, they might maybe they don’t have a huge twitter following, for instance, but but their site gets a lot of hits, absolutely blogging is just as important, and, you know the challenge with blogging of courses, you know, it’s, even maurin structured content just like sort of the posts on facebook and twitter, but you, khun, obviously segment them down based on topics or terms and start to put them in a group. Let me give an example so that you know it, it makes a little bit more sense, but, you know, we typically look and work with non-profits and, you know, their databases aren’t necessarily large, you know, varies we have some customers that have very large databases, but let’s, certainly with the small ones that we want to focus on our listeners. Yes, mom, but so they might only have five, ten, fifty thousand emails, and it might be past donors. Or it might be people who showed up at rallies or somebody just signed up for the newsletter, but fifty thousands of good number, because it’s actually not that hard to get to, you know, in terms of what let’s, let’s, let’s, divide that by ten. Ok, for our for our listeners, i want to deal with something that’s manageable by most ultra z even just use five thousand as our example. Okay, so in the five thousand example, they might have five thousand, but there may be only three hundred there that are actually very active on social media and have that cloud score we talked about. And so they’re sort of your influence or group. Obviously, for three hundred, you can send very easily consent individualized message to them, you know, sort of expressing your your want for them to retweet some of their stuff and on their platforms you can also then put them into segments. And so this is one of our non-profit clients did is they started looking at who’s, mentioning some of the key words that they follow. I used the example of climate change, it might be elections. It might be a variety of terms, and so they put them in a segment called supporter no, and they actually sent him a bumper sticker. And so they’re actually trying to actually build some sort of relationship. They’re more than just sort of this mass mutual, like, yeah, especially before you’re asking for some kind of called action, you know, get to know the people start having a conversation about the fact that you know you’re sympathetic to our cause, and we notice, you know, we know you’re spending a lot of time on climate change in your example, and we’d like to get to know you better. I mean, you’re trying to build a relationship before you start asking you and we’re going to follow you and you’re gonna follow us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m lawrence paige nani, author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. And so then you can start scanning their posts as you go forward. Oh, and ultimately, if they retweet you or retweet something that you think is on message with one of your issues, then they become an ambassador. They’re literally in a new segment inside the database on then that will shoot off. An email is you brought a called action, you know, for a little donation, and the idea is that, you know, we think it resonates better when you’ve built that relationship, however small it might be, and you take it off line and the example here, you know, we start to see engagement really jump because most most organizations non-profits don’t have time to do anything other than sort of a monthly blast here we start to see opens increased to two hundred forty four percent of what they normally see, which is twenty, thirty percent open rates are generally what we see because it’s personalized it’s, individualized and it’s triggered on a behavior that just happened it’s right there, the recall is immediate because they’re getting it immediately, and we also see one hundred sixty one percent increase generally in the cliques. So you’re getting that called action and you’re starting to see ultimately revenue lift or donation left here generally of three to six times of what you’d see on a regular email blast. And so, you know, it’s it’s something that no matter how small your list is, you can get a lot more effective using that third leg of sort of activating now the facebook, twitter and ultimately email to really make it a lot more powerful. Um, and we’ve got obviously hundreds of clients that are doing this in a variety different areas, but i thought that example was most apra poto what we’re doing here because of i’m sort of building that relationship, okay, part of the workshop title is for ah, activating for self organizing. So what do you mean by self organizing? So i think with self organizing, i think it’s similar to the example and that, you know, you’re calling on people that maybe are sort of like minded to you and you have to identify them. They may not know about your organization, but you you’ve been able to scan through either their posts or their tweets and understand that maybe there aligned with your organisation. And so you can do things like not just call for donations, but ultimately call for action. Real action, there’s. A number of clients that i work with capitol hill, and, obviously, their causes, and not a sign a full lobbying effort. But a call to action. It might be something that triggers a kn e mail or fax to senator based on certain votes that are coming up. And so, you know, those those air sort of the more traditional cause actions that we see in the self organizing, you know, and we think that, you know, platforms that involved. Obviously, social media, as well as email, can be more effective, similar to what we saw in terms of engagement and ultimately converting them to that call of action called action in self organizing. Okay. Let’s ah, spend a little time on celebrity a couple minutes left. What? How do we identify the celebrities that that may be appropriate for us to reach out to on? Do keep in mind our listeners are small and midsize shop, so we’re not a list that there’s not a list non-profits oh, and maybe not not even pursuing a list. Celebrities necessarily mean there are lesser known celebrities who could still bring a considerable following. Uh, so but how do we how do we identify? And every celebrity is not not open about the causes? Andi, you know what? A lot of times if they are open, they may already be allied with a charity. So prods of them coming to us, it seemed kind of small. How are we going to find the right people with knowing all that? Well, you highlighted a couple of issues. One is obviously identifying, but the other is sort of weighing the risk. And so, you know, once you take on a celebrity, take on the full persona from yesterday and tomorrow, right, way unknown tomorrow we can’t predict tomorrow, but what we do see with celebrities is that they do. Have ultimately that immediate reach. You know, in one of the earliest examples we talked about, they have the halo effect in the immediate reach and they tend to have, you know, even celebrities with relatively low cloud scores, they can still reach a million plus in a roughly about eighteen minutes that’s generally the life span of the tweets and celebrity world. Okay, so you don’t have a lot of long term promotional effect there, but what we do see is that it does activate people who maybe weren’t even close to your cause, and it also is something that we see cross platform, so it might be a tweet that ends up on a variety of different social networks because of who that person is particularly it’s funny, you know? And the other thing is, celebrities really help with the search engine optimization, and we won’t go into the reasons why, but identifying the celebrity is actually not that difficult part of where i’d like to start on part of it is this where the process starts? That’s right is picking the right one’s a part of it is sort of looking off line. Which one do you? Think you identify with your organization does do they care about the issues that you care about? Are they on the right or the left? Those are things that you certainly you care about in terms of aligning your message because you don’t want to have a celebrity activate and help you, and then all of a sudden be off message two weeks later it’s part of that risk one way you can do it certainly is toe look at what’s in the popular press and gather a lot of what some of the comments are in the popular press you can use platforms that scan similar to what we do with the donor databases and supporters. You can put a celebrity’s email address in there, most of them know one or two and identify some of the social networks they’re on and see what the types of things that they care about. You can also approach them privately, and we’ve found certainly an example. Tomorrow on the panel will be the will be goldberg example, it’ll be the pluses and minuses of this strategy, but, you know, they literally just tweeted out to them on the site on her. Her profile and we’ll be then retweeted it, and it was something that there was there was no deal backroom deal. There was no phone calls, there was no rep agents, but it was actually something that they thought she she actually cared about, and they were right, and you’ll see that an example tomorrow well, in more detail, but our listeners won’t be there so what’s right? What was the cause on? So for her, the cause was it related to her love for for animals, and i won’t go into specifically because it’s something that’s being presented, but i will give you another one that that we’re talking about two more. Another was ann curry tweet from two thousand ten it was actually the twit of the year, and she had actually been contacted by doctors out borders to help them get into haiti after that disaster, the air force is blocking the planes that were allowing some of these crucial supporters in there, and and curry saw an opportunity there to retweet to get them to help planned those doctors. Obviously, and this is an example of someone who really only had fifty thousand supporters, but our followers, but it immediately got retweeted to the point where it reached over four, point three million people in that eighteen minute span. And so, you know, there are timely causes, too. You have to take advantage of events in the news and again, if you’re scanning posts of what your supporters we’re talking about, you’ll catch a lot of those things that are in the news, locally and regionally, that may not be in the national news, and you could take advantage of that. And so, you know, we we certainly believe, you know, a celebrity can help, but we also think that the influences that are already in your database can help you just as much because they really care about what you have to say. They’ve already proven it by their interaction or their donation or their activism, and they can’t have that same reach and that’s what generally we say is take baby steps, okay? They also you know, so i don’t have that dance. You minimize your potential downside risk, that’s, right? And what the celebrities gonna be doing or saying as you, you know, tomorrow and the day after, yeah, it’s, it’s similar to putting all your money into one stock, yeah, way don’t know what the future may hold, and we certainly don’t know if that type of celebrity will, you know, have the staying power. But certainly your supporter bases it’s a much broader base, and certainly they have the same influence with their followers on their social media networks and and they can certainly broadcast to their audience with the same type of general volume that you would see. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you very much. Matthew fisher, chief marketing officer for fishing strategy. Thanks so much, matthew. Thank you. I appreciate it, tony. And my pleasure. I look forward to speaking again sometime in the future. All right, all right. Thank you very much for joining us. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of non-profit technology conference two thousand fourteen. I’m grateful to everybody at the non-profit technology conference and at and ten, the ones who hosted the non-profit technology network. Always great fun, tio have be to be with that crowd. And next week, the ceo of inten will be returning that’s, amy sample ward, our social media contributor and also alison fine returns next week. To continue our discussion on matter-ness had to show people that they matter to your organization. If you missed any part of today’s show, you can find it at tony martignetti dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is the line producer. Sure, social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules will be with me next month to do fund-raising day. Our music is by scott stein. You with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent go out and be great. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network to get you thinking. Things. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun, shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com, you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking. Come on.