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Peter Panepento: Who Needs Campaign Counsel?
Peter Panepento is back with a new report, “The Do-It-Yourself Fundraising Handbook.” Self-funding campaigns are rampant and Peter walks you through how to do yours smartly. He’s a consultant and author of the report.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure the pain of retro fire inge itis if i had to speak the words you missed today’s show who needs campaign counsel? Peter panepento is back with a new report, the do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook self-funding campaigns are rampant, and peter walks you through how to do yours smartly he’s, a consultant and author of that report, and he’s with me for the hour on tony’s take two non-profit radio testimonials responsive by pursuant full service fund-raising data driven and technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com, and by we be spelling super cool spelling bee fundraisers. We be spelling dot com three glad to welcome back peter panepento from like a short hiatus from the show’s on early last month, he’s, a freelance writer and principle of panepento strategies, a communications consultancy working with non-profits foundations and companies that serve the sector. He’s, a former assistant managing editor at the chronicle of philanthropy, he’s at panepento dot com and at p panepento peter, welcome back. Great to be here, tony way, haven’t gone, too. I know that. What what brings you back so quickly? This is this is unusual. Generalise does not happen. What what the hell brings you back so fast? Well, i think it is the release of this new report on, um, do-it-yourself fund-raising that i worked with the chronicle of philanthropy to produce within the last couple of weeks, there went live, and i think due to the coincidences of timing, we have another interesting report to talk about pretty quickly. Okay, excellent. I agree, that is that’s. The reason. Let’s see? Alright, so do-it-yourself fund-raising what are we talking about? Let’s? Make sure everybody knows what this thing’s category is all about. Yes, and it’s ah, pretty rapidly emerging form of fund-raising although it’s not brand new. So if you think back over time, you may have seen campaigns where people decide they’re going teo one across the country, or try to break a guinness book of world records, you know, world records record or shave their head for a cancer charity. These are typically do-it-yourself campaign, these air compan campaigns where a supporter of an organization takes it upon themselves to to take on a challenge or do something on behalf of their favorite charity, and then solicit their friends and family for donation. Um, you know, if you think back about terry fox running across canada back in the nineteen seventies and eighties, um, if you even think more recently about the ice bucket challenge where a group of people, you know, decided that it would be a great way to raise money for a lot less research to double ice water over their heads. Um, these air campaigns where the charity isn’t doing the heavy lifting their supporters are, and they’re raising money on their behalf. Cool. All right, um, don’t we just call this peer-to-peer fund-raising well, it’s a it’s, a subset of peer-to-peer fund-raising peer-to-peer fund-raising also includes a lot of really charity managed events, so you know peer-to-peer fund-raising includes walkathon, ds and runs and bike rides and things that are scheduled events that the charity organizes, and then people go out and raise money for charity. Oh, god do-it-yourself is really self organized events where the charity doesn’t schedule an event per se or really go to great lengths to organize it. It these are things that are really done by the fundraisers themselves, the people who hatched a really interesting idea or or want to take on a challenge of their own, to raise money and with online platforms. Now charities are kind of starting to steer people a little bit and helping them and giving them the tools to do these campaigns on their own in a bit more of a formalised way than they’ve been done in the past, right? Cool. Okay, so i see it’s a it’s, a subset of peer-to-peer but you said the charity’s not organizing. Their encouraging you to organize on your own and there’s enormous creativity, and we’re gonna have a chance to talk about some of that on on dh support from the charity, i guess charities air recognizing that if they create this support infrastructure and we’ll have a good chance to talk about all that, too, then you know, they just keep that up and their supporters can can go off and do vast numbers of campaigns all on their own that’s right? And yeah, and that’s really what’s exciting about this and why a lot of non-profits are really moving into the space and trying to be more aggressive with with helping their their supporters do this for them because it can really become a almost a turnkey way. Teo, get teo, get fund-raising revenue. Now there are a number of things that you have to do to enable it, and there are pasta oppcoll into it’s doing well, right? We’ll talk about later, but what’s exciting and promising for a lot of organizations as it takes the onus off of them to have to organize some huge event with tons of volunteers and lots of dates staff to make. Happen, and it gives the tools to the people who are out there raising the money for them to do a lot of that for them. Excellent. Cool. All right, all right. Um, so i know you have lots of examples of great support let’s go in. And the first thing that the report recommends is that there be a ah, a strong platform, and we’re just have, like, two minutes or so before our first break, just so you know, okay, well, i’ll quickly talk about a strong platform, and then we can come back to it after a break up. You know, for sure what a lot of charities are doing. And really charity water is one of the groups that hyre knew this is they have created sections of their website where they offer fundraisers, although our, you know, supporters all the tools they need to raise money into do-it-yourself campaign and charity water has done it, giving people the tools to give up their birthdays or their weddings or create their own challenges on their website. And then it really walks them through the process of setting up the campaign, soliciting their friends um and doing everything along the way that you need to do to actually successfully execute one of these campaigns as an individual. So a lot of organizations are now investing in creating these platforms almost in the same model that charity water has done. Groups like the world wildlife fund has created a a platform called panda nation, where people can engage in do-it-yourself campaigns and a lot of other organizations that, you know, largely national charities with some local ones, too, are starting to try to create these types of platforms that really give people everything they need. Teo, do these campaigns and gives them some guard rails and rules of the road. I would help them do them. Well, yeah. Panda nation. I love that the world wildlife that’s called panda nation. Um, i think we might be talking about st baldrick’s to you. You admire a lot of the work that they do around this. Yeah, they are a little bit different in that. They they organized people around us pacific activity, which is having people volunteered to shave their heads to raise money. Right? Ok, so they’re they’re narrowing the focus of what they want volunteers to do. Exactly what they’ve been able to raise tens of millions of dollars doing it, and they have really built up a lot of a lot of support and a lot of supporters for their they’re caused by focusing all of their fund-raising really on this activity and providing a lot of the same tools that the other sites are providing to do that. So they are a great example of of a group to emulate if you’re looking at getting into this, uh, space, they’re a bit dinner structured in terms of what the options are and how they encourage people to do it, but ah, lot of the same tactics and ideas, um, that applied to other platforms are ones that they’ve really mastered it perfected over the years. Let’s go out for a first break and you and i’ll keep talking see if we have anything more to say about the platforms, and then we got conversation about cem examples of challenges and marketing and stewardship stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once. A month tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website, philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals, the better way. Oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I feel like doing live listener love et cetera right now because i’m just about being back in the studio. It’s been three weeks. I’m pretty sure that was recorded so let’s let’s go abroad first with the live listen love going abroad. Brooklyn, new york now that’s. Not very nice. I’m sorry i take that back. Brooklyn, you’re part of the five boroughs. Let’s really go abroad! Mexico city, mexico welcome live listen her love to you brenholz tartus! Hi beh china and we have multiple china actually knee how? Seoul, south korea always checking in just like china on your haserot comes home, nita, we have a couple in brazil. We conceicao paulo, we can’t see the other city in brazil, but we know you’re there live listener love teo multiple listeners in brazil wade get everybody up! Vietnam dung, vietnam live ilsen love to you is, well, let’s. Come back into the u s new bern, north carolina st louis, missouri we hawk in new jersey, brooklyn, new york. You deserve a second shot out since i was unkind to brooklyn. Bridgeport, connecticut all live listener love to each of each of those and there’s more coming when we do the live. Listen, love course, we got to the podcast pleasantries, because how could we not? How could i who’s the week there’s, no, corporate, we its eye? I’m the host here. I need to be grateful, and i am, in fact, for the over ten thousand listeners each week listening on the podcast, most ofyou on itunes, then stitcher and then lots of other smaller platforms. Player dot fm and podcast, dot net or something, and there’s, one in germany, etcetera, over ten thousand podcast listeners pleasantries to you, the affiliate affections, always going out to our am and fm listeners throughout the country. Let your station no, would you? If you’re if you’re listening on am fm, if you’re one of our affiliate listeners, let your station know that you appreciate non-profit radio, they will appreciate that feedback, and i will, too affections to our affiliate am and fm listeners. Thank you for that indulgence. Peter panepento gotta be gotta be good to the audience, so thank you. You absolutely do. And you’re not doing this without an audience. Thie audiences, really? Why we’re here talking right now. So if you have to make sure that we’re engaging them and and listening back to them to sew for it, i do. I do indeed. So thank you very much. Let’s. Talk about some of the examples. You have some cool examples you mentioned already. Mike fox? No. You to mention mike fox of the the mike. I’m conflating two things. Yeah, there. I got a guy. I got a job with cary out there. Yeah, this couple foxes, right? But somebody got the jump. So i talked about terry fox, who was a cancer patient in canada. A way back. I think in nineteen eighty who excuse me, made worldwide headlines for his quest to run across canada and raise money for cancer research and he actually died on his mission on dhe never completed the quest, but he’s been a national hero in canada and had really became a model for, you know, the individual who was willing to take on big challenges for big personal challenges to raise money for a cause that matters. And a lot of others have followed in his footsteps over the years, and one of them was a guy named sam fox who, ah, interestingly, raises money for the michael j fox foundation. So i guess we do have a lot of fox’s, trail blazers and do-it-yourself fund-raising but he got he got that job. Damn fox, who was somebody actually interviewed several years ago when i was working at the chronicle on staff, he ran the pacific coast trail, i believe, to raise to raise money for for the michael j fox foundation support of his mother, who was i was dealing with parkinson’s disease and went through some pretty substantial challenges and raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the charity as a result of that, um and on top on top of his efforts, they actually ended up bringing him on staff to lead uh, uh, basically one of the first do-it-yourself charity sponsor campaigns where he was going out and helping people create their own challenges for the michael j fox foundation. Those are a couple of pretty prominent examples of people who take on extreme challenges to do this, but, um, there’s also a number of people who are doing pretty ordinary thanks to we mentioned head shaving earlier on dh we mentioned how charity water has really pioneered or kind of owned the space on people, touching their birthdays to raise money for the charity. You know, people, they’re doing all kinds of things there, you know, there organizing your own pancake breakfasts. They are wuebben, you know, taking on, you know, all kinds of challenges to try to break in a book of world records records, whether it’s around tennis, volleying or bringing groups of people together to sing together and different things like that. So there’s a there’s, a lot of different modes that these campaigns models of these campaigns follow and that’s part of what makes it interesting and fun to see how people are doing this. There’s also the fear ones. There’s, bungee jumping. The report mentions singing karaoke e although i have to find it hard to believe that that’s a real fear. But i guess because somebody is afraid of karaoke e but i that to me is something i’m really but i guess that would probably be something that would not e yeah, well, if you have, if you have stage fright, i guess that could be a legitimate fear. But anyway, people were you it would be facing us here, but actually, you know, maybe a chance for society. They created a campaign last year called the fearless champ challenge, which was essentially that people could buy-in basically acknowledged what their biggest fear is, and they could collect pledges up to it. You know, a certain dollar level on def. People hit the pole for the pledge than the person would then go and face their fear. Right? So you know, tony let’s say you, you know, let’s, you know, let’s say i am i my biggest fear is actually singing karaoke with you. I know you totally upstage. May i would, you know, tell my friends that you know, if if i collect five thousand dollars on pledges. My friend tony has agreed to have me sing with him. Uh, you know, and then, you know, once that pleasure was hit, you know, you and i would then go and do that, and we would report back with a video of, well, everybody so that they could then laugh at how fat i was doing it. So and they had quite a bit of success with that. They had people do everything from, you know, agreed a bungee jump, tohave spiders crawl over them to eat something that they are, you know, that you know, some food that they’re either afraid of. R oh, are, you know, just, you know, disgusted by all kinds of different things. And again, that leaves the door open for a lot of imagination and a lot of different ways that people can can you can do something personal and fund to raise money. Long term listeners. The show will remember that years ago, back when i used to chase likes on facebook, i had something under three hundred and a couple of high school friends challenged me that if they could get to three hundred get me two, three hundred likes the facebook page. The non-profit radio facebook page, not mine. If they would get me to three hundred, then what would i do? And i agreed to do a blue pedicure. Get a blue pedicure on the way. We called it the blue pedicure challenge. And indeed, they got me to the three hundred, and i went to a salon across the street here on seventy second street in new york city. And i got it. I got the boot pedicure, and i chronicled that you could goto the my youtube channel and you’ll see there’s. There are i think there are three videos. There’s, one of me making the appointment and choosing my color had avery. You know, i was kind of a royal blue. I think i chose on dh, then there’s one or two. But i think i did it into segments. The actual pedicure and there’s, the waxing, et cetera. The application, of course. The drying, the massaging. Um, what else? Ah, over the parapet treatment. Oh, the hot, powerful treatment that was that’s. A classic. So anything that was that was a highlight of the i have not gotten. A pedicure since then, but blue pedicure challenges out there and so, you know, i wouldn’t exactly say i was a pioneer in do-it-yourself fund-raising but it was a way of having fun is exactly what you’re talking about. Exactly, and you know it. You, khun, you know, you could be really creative with ease and do really personal things. And, you know, if you have, you know, if you have a following on social media or on youtube, that could be another great way for for youto capitalize on that and do some good for your favorite charity. So i don’t think i was familiar with the blue pedicure challenge. That’s. Pretty interesting. Yeah, you know that david has a keel who writes who runs a peer-to-peer form and is doing a lot of work in this issue. He came up with a for a charity a few years ago, came up with a hot pepper challenge, and i believe he collected pet pledges and had others collect pledges for the number of hot cuppers they could even one sitting so there’s. Lots of different ways you can do this. My dad will be into the hot pepper challenge. Habanero is like tuna fish for him. I don’t know. It’s it’s, a judy food for him. Hadi’s! Nero’s. Okay, let’s, go right. So we know that we have to have support now, here’s, where we start to get into the infrastructure. And there is, as you mentioned, there’s a cost involved with this there’s overhead. There has to be a platform for you to send people to when they decide that they would like to fund-raising for you in this way. What is this? What is this? This is the platform for the volunteers. We’re going to run their own campaign. What is this platform need thio provide them with? Well, it needs to provide him with a few things. And i know a lot of the software vendors who served the space are very good at helping build these platforms to and actually have models for them. So if you’re working with one of those companies already there, there may actually be ah, ah, kid or some kind of starter thatyou could use through that vendor to actually help you get that started. And i won’t name names on vendors here. We’re agnostic, right? No, no, no, wait. Hold on, hold on. Wait, give shoutouts. Teo ifit’s a resource related to what we’re talking about, right this. Right? Right. So if you know what give you if you work with the black blotter, a donor driver or any one of those software companies, chances are they’re there now offering some kind of a package for this, and we’ll work with you on creating it. But what it essentially needs tto have in addition to a mechanism for actually collecting donations, typically are, you know, an explanation of how to do that. You know how to do it. Some examples in ways for people to easily set up a campaign. Um, it needs teo equip them with ways tio the message and use social media and e mail actually reach out to their friends and tell them about the campaign that they’re doing. Um and it usually gives them a mechanism for for, you know, reporting back to them and thanking them and actually collecting the donation. So it, you know, all of these, um, platforms of they’ll tend to look a little bit different, and they give people some different options, but essentially you need to give people a currency experience that allows them to do every part of their campaign through your platform and give them the tools to do it very easily. The easier you can make it for people, too, not only make the ask, but, you know, post photos and makes, you know, share on social media and and be very clear about how how they could be most effective in doing that better success, you’re going tohave with those with those with those platforms naturally. Right. You gotta make it easy for your for your volunteers. Absolutely. Okay, once we have this. All right. So that’s there some investment there you’re goingto create this yourself which felt like not necessary, but or pay for for a module that’s a turnkey teo, be integrated into your sight one way or another. Whether it’s, a vendor, you’re working for somebody you bring on for this. Oh, are you purchased for this? For this purpose? Exactly. All right. And then we need to be able to we need to drive our volunteers to this. Paige. This platform platform what’s your advice around that? Yeah. This is probably as crucial is having the platform itself is actually making people aware that it’s there and getting them to engage with it and you know, we you know, as we’ve been studying this and i’ve i’ve done this both with the chronicle and with david hesse kills peer-to-peer forum on dh talking organizations that air trying this there are some that have essentially created the platform and then not done much marketing behind it and have been, you know, somewhat surprised that nobody came and really used it and raise much money for them. Um, so you really need to do some marketing behind it. You need to think about what audiences or or groups are most likely to want to raise money on your behalf and then and then build a marketing campaign that actually makes them aware that it’s there and comes up with some front ways to engage them in that, um, the canadian cancer society, which has had a lot of success and this is also invested quite a bit of money in search engine optimization, so that when people type in cancer and fund-raising their sight comes up, so part of it is being being smart about what people might be searching for if there are interested in your cause and want to do something about it, you know, making sure that you’ve done the search engine optimization and the google ads and other things that allow your platform to show up when people are actually motivated to do something they mean, you know, they specifically for health charities, they may be very interested in trying to do something for a disease that’s affected a level another themselves or or a friend who may have passed away due to a certain type of cancer making sure that you have your site top of mind and top of google, i guess, for situations like that is it is another important thing to be thinking about investing in, um and then making sure that it has a prominent place within your own web universe, that you’re promoting it on your home page in your email newsletters, in any of the other things that you’re doing to make people aware that it’s there and that you’re you’re actually spotlighting examples of others who are doing it for you, too. On google adwords, we just had a show within the past couple of weeks exactly on that topic. And the segment is called google adwords, a reminder that google offers ten thousand dollars per month. Complimentary add word. Add word. Edward edwards for non-profits. So if if you want, if you’re not taking advantage of that, listen to that show on glad words and well, it will get you started. So, i mean, essentially is no different than driving people anywhere else, and you have a facebook page, you have to drive them to that. You have a website, you want to drive people there, you know, it zoho about the marketing and promotions. I’m surprised that there are organizations that have surprised if they set up a platform that nobody comes to it. You have to. Well, i mean, marketing and promotions is one of those things that for non-profits eyes sometimes a difficult thing to get budget for. So you, you know, and that’s one of the big challenges facing the sector, i think, is that it’s an overhead costs, and it becomes something that a lot of organizations are a little, you know, either budget conscious or don’t necessarily think of it, it is up front as they need teo, but it’s something that’s really crucial in a, you know, in a in a environment like this, especially when it’s not built around a specific events or one thing that the organization is doing this is something that has to be almost on billing marketing because unlike a walkathon or, ah, a single event that you can put a lot of weight behind it for a few months and then take the rest of the year off. Something you you almost have to budget for and and work on your round. Okay. Agreed on dh. Yeah, well, and certainly you invest this money. You want this to be a platform that’s going to be used? I don’t know. What’s what’s. A big number for your organization hundreds of times, thousands of times or tens of thousands of times. Yeah. You got to keep driving people to it. Um, all right, we get teo teo, talk a little about cem, our sponsors, and, uh, and tony, take two. So, peter, hang on and you and i’ll will keep talking shortly. Okay, terrific. So there’s more of who needs campaign counsel coming up first, pursuing you need to raise a lot of money at year end. And i know that your urine push is in planning now or it’s going to be very soon, maybe right after right after labor day is pretty typical for your and planning. Take a look at year end accelerator by pursuant. They’re combining proven best practices with innovation in acquisition and cultivation strategies. All to improve your year end. So you have you have a real strong year and push. Check that out. It’s pursuant dot com slash year end accelerator we’ll be spelling spelling bees for non-profit fund-raising these are not your mother’s spelling bee. This is not your seventh grade spelling bee. They have live music, concerts, dancing, stand up comedy fund-raising and they managed to get spelling into so these these nights are a ton of fun. There is a ah really cool video that shows all these things. I just i just rattled off. You’ll see the video at wi be spelling dot com and b is b e we be spelling dot com now time for tony’s take two this week i am boasting and i’m bragging this’s my gushing gaskin aid because you have got to hear the testimonials that listeners have posted in itunes reviews. Really very thoughtful. I love them so i’m grateful there’s over sixty of them. And i highlight a few of them in the video, which is at tony martignetti dot com. I hope i chose yours. If you want to check out whether i chose yours, check out the video. The testimonial video at tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two. Peter panepento thanks for hanging in there again, your urination, your gracious guy see, i usually don’t have people on for the full hour and even rarer full hour by phone, but you’re you’re you’re reasonably articulate and ah, and engaging so s so i i thought, you know, that’s actually, my tagline let you hang on, okay, should that that kind of lackluster expectations and all your clients would be excited because you’re under produce your under promising and weigh over performing, i’m sure. Okay, let’s, um all right, i just i guess i just want to stress something on this on this platform and the marketing that your you do that you’re doing to drive people to the to this platform. It really needs to encourage creativity around. I mean, that’s absurd and all the things you’ve been saying that all these vast examples, but of challenges that people have taken out, but you really want to encourage people to think outside the the box of what everybody else has done the run, the whatever, yes, and so part of it is is giving them some. Some examples of things that they can do, whether they’re made up examples of things that you would love to see somebody try on your behalf or whether these are things that somebody may have done free organization already and telling the story about that and making sure that that you’re giving them some some guidance on on some of the types of things that they can do on your behalf is really important here. So, um, some, uh, organizations like the world wildlife fund on their panda pages, they actually they have categories of events that on and challenges that people can take on, um, to help guide, you know, things that they think their supporters are going to be interested in doing, but also giving them ah, platform to jump off and create their own ideas. Yes. Okay, um, or that you’re able to do that, and and then, you know, and the back and event really market the fact and tell the stories of the people who are doing campaigns for you so you could spot light them. Um, i think that’s really helpful charity water has done again a great job of this two whenever they’ve had somebody do a a creative campaign for them and they’ve had some creative ones, they had somebody swim naked from san francisco to alcatraz after they after they reached a certain fund-raising level, and then they also had somebody who who hated the band nickelback. All right, right? This kind listens. Yes decided to basically listen to them nonstop for one hundred sixty eight hour straight at people if people donated enough to him and when we hold, people did. And he had a subject himself to that auditory experience. How many hours? How many bones? But they’ve they’ve done a great job of then in turn, you know, telling those stories, you know, creating block post featuring on their home page, creating videos about these things so that they can then show those back to their supporters as examples but also as ways to get attention for the organization. So, yeah, cool. How many days is one hundred sixty eight hours? I don’t know what that is that a week? Maybe that’s seven? I don’t know. I was told there’d be no math on this interview. Tony, you put me on the spot. You weren’t you weren’t told. That by me that’s. Okay, that’s a long time hundred sixty eight hours. I wouldn’t even i wouldn’t have thought that the band nickelback had one hundred sixty eight hours. Maybe he had to replay, you know, your place. And i hope i hope he was sleeping in there at some point. Yeah, i was warning about that on dpi breaks also. Okay, let’s, move on. So now, after your your volunteers have done their campaigns, or rather in the midst of them sorry, i should say what, while they’re in the midst of that, they need support, they they need to be told how to promote their own campaign inside your platform and latto asked and howto follow-up etcetera. Yeah, and this is another really key. Part of it is, once you get them there and get them to agree to do something, you have to walk them through the process, and this is crucial with any peer-to-peer campaign. You know, a lot of organizations have gotten very, very sophisticated at making sure that they’re providing very clear instruction and motivations to their fundraisers around events that they’re doing and sending them e mails, you know, being available latto feel their phone calls and questions and and providing incentives to them for reaching different fund-raising global’s along the way with these campaigns, you have to do the same thing. You really have to, uh, make sure that you have systems in place to be communicating pretty regularly with the people who agree, tio take on one of these challenges and and giving them tips and advice and and maybe even many challenges along the way i do to help them be successful with these. So a lot of a lot of the more successful campaigns, they’re ones that you no have, ah series of e mails that they send out at various times to participants, you know, telling them how to how did for what’s that they’re friends, uh, you know, reminding them when they haven’t sent out ah, message or collected, ah, new donation in awhile and giving them prompts and different things along the way to help them help them be successful with the sun. Fund-raising and, uh, some organizations actually have staff people who will, you know, reach out personally by phone or e mail and make sure that their questions are being answered and that they’re getting the support they need along the way to do well, yeah, that’s where this is would be a challenge, i think for some smaller shops. You you need to be able teo provide that. I mean, well, are there organizations that are doing it all on lee automated? And they don’t have personal support like that, like, you know, a line you can call or someone you can chat with live. Is that maybe maybe that’s less common than i’m realizing? How common is that personal support? Well, i think, you know, for a lot of the larger campaigns are a lot of it is automated, and but but they do have some people who are minding the store and watching and making sure that when people are, you know, bumping their heads and facing challenges are now being very active, that they are following up with them and being being in touch with them. So but, you know, in talking to a lot of these groups, this is an area that is a challenge for them is figuring out what is the right level of support to offer. How can they do this in a way where? They’re not, you know, creating a whole new fund-raising arm in their organization, but are still providing that level of support and and service that’s needed to do this well, andan other thing we’re hearing and because this is a pretty new form of fund-raising there are actual questions, a lot of organizations about, you know, who in the organization and, you know, should be leading these efforts and where it should live, is it something that lives wholly in the development department? Doesn’t live in your marketing shop doesn’t live in some cases in your technology section because they’re the ones who are our leading the platform. I’ve spoken to people and organizations who where all kinds of different hats who are engaged in leading these campaigns and i think, um, i think it’s going to take a little bit of time to figure out what the best practices are in term and most effective practices are making sure that if you are going to lead do-it-yourself campaign that that you have fought through, you know how to, uh, how, how to structure and howto have the right people in the organization leading it, your research didn’t lead youto find that there’s there’s one ah, form of organization or location where this lives that’s that’s more popular than others. It’s really is pretty much a scattershot still it’s been a bit scattershot, but i think the groups that are most most advanced on it are ones that already have peer-to-peer fund-raising it’s part of their part of their tool kit. Um, i think the groups that, you know have people that are there organizing walks and rides and various other peer-to-peer programs are seeing the opportunities here first because they’re engaged with this kind of fund-raising already and they’re they’re talking to each other. So a lot of groups are doing this out of their, you know, their peer-to-peer arm of their organizations already, uh, but, you know, world wildlife fund, you know, this has been a major technological investment for them, so they have technology people who are really kind of the key voices within the organization, on that and for charity water. This was, uh, pretty much an essential and central part of the organization when i founded ten years ago with these types of campaigns. So i think, it’s, much more marketing driven through that organization. So there’s different different avenues to get there, but for groups that are starting in now and under are researching it now, these are questions that they’re starting to ask. Okay, um, interesting. Ah, pronunciation. Now you say charity water, i say charity water, i’m putting the emphasis on water. So now i suddenly i don’t like to quibble on non-profit radio, although i am, but i but i don’t know, i i think it should be charity water because there’s no doesn’t scott harrison want the emphasis on the water and not on the charity part? I’m pretty sure he does. You’re absolutely right. Charity water charted water, charity, water, charity, charity, border, charity, charity water i’m sure, but i’m pretty sure it should be charity water. Okay, well, we have actually we’ve got some live. Listen, love we got new york, new york a wonderful buy from charity. Water is listening, but also joining us a new afresh. Oakland, california. Boston, massachusetts and tehran, iran wow, live listen love to each of those and we got more if i didn’t say your country yet, then ah, you’re you’re coming so live listen love going out to even more countries in a few moments, but okay, i’m like aggression on princessa zoho yeah, where do you excuse charity water, though? It’s it’s, charity durney water. Well, i just i think i just gave you the definitive att leased for purposes of this show, but this is the center of the universe. So as far as i’m concerned, that’s the way it ought to be for, for all, for all being in all time. But at least when you’re on my show, you know, yeah, i charity water, but i’ve never heard scott harrison, so i don’t know he’s the ceo of charity water for those i don’t mean to name drop not like he’s a friend, i just know of him charity water. Okay, yes. So you’re essentially all right. So i understand that there’s there’s there’s timing challenges around what level of support and when people need support, but essentially the principle is you need to be a cheerleader for your volunteer fund-raising resort out there, absolutely. And you need to be talking to them regularly and giving them instruction and as you said, being a cheerleader, encouraging them but also giving them, uh, advice and help along. The way i helped them do this successfully, and, you know, while there isn’t a straight formula for a lot of these, uh, campaigns yet, in terms of you have tto send seven e mails over the course of two months, uh, you know, to make these work most effectively. What’s, very clear is that you have to have something that is that is regular and consistent and as clear as possible. And then you have to be paying attention to the results of those different communications and seeing what’s working and learning from that so that you can put your, uh, put the right emphasis on the right things moving forward. Cool. Okay, let’s, go out for our last break. And when we come back to peter and i’ll keep talking. Ah, about this, of course, and we got a bit of a double edged sword. There’s opportunities here, but there’s also challenges. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked neo-sage levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation talk. Trans sounded life that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i am his niece, carmela. And i am his nephew, gino. Love that drop. But i got i got i gotta tear listening to them. Well, i was just with them last week in down the beach more live listener love. Here it is i promised it since since last tehran iran checking in live love going out to tehran, chunking china and also guangdong, china now taipei, taiwan i don’t know if type has been with us much, but certainly ni hao going out to taiwan as well. And also newberg, newberg, germany cool gooden dog for germany gotta love the live love i do i do all right, peter, we have just like, five minutes left or so roughly, i’d say. Is that about right, sam? Get a little more than that, like, ten minutes. So let’s, talk a little about how this is a bit of ah, double edged sword. You alluded to some of the challenges, but let’s start with an upside. On the other hand, you’re getting lots of new donors, which creates a challenge, right? You you’re getting new donors on dure also finding ways to engage some of the current donors you have who may be, you know, looking for something new and a new way to support your organization? Yes, but yeah, but the challenge that becomes whenever you get new donors is is how do you how do you bring them into your organization and make sure that they don’t become a one and done donor on dh that’s? I think a big a particular challenge for these kinds of campaigns because they’re not, quote unquote traditional in the same way where somebody who gives to you through a through, you know, a mail campaign or even through a personal solicitation, these air folks who are doing something that’s kind of unique and different and may only do it once for you because it is so unique and different, i think it’s probably in a lot of cases, a lot easier to take on a physical challenge once and ask people for money than it is to do it a second time. There’s a novelty to a lot of these things, so for a lot of organizations they are, they’re happy to get the money and build the connection with thes supporters, but they’re struggling a bit on how to how to do that stewardship and kind of move them up the engagement ladder so that they do more things with him down the line. Um, and this has been particularly true for the a l s association after the ice bucket challenge or something. They didn’t even plan for an organized to create a platform for this, but they suddenly had a lot of donors who were who were taking part in a massive do-it-yourself campaign who are now part of their donors database, and they’ve been really, you know, thinking about and struggling over the last couple of years the right way and the most effective way to keep them engaged in the organization and to get them to come back and get more down the line. That was let’s talk about the number, then there’s two and a half million to something new donors to the organization, right? Yeah, i think it. And on top of that, a lot of them had no connections the cause before they embark in this campaign for a lot of them, they don’t have a personal connection to a less, but they were made aware of it, and they were compelled enough not only you know, um uh, take the challenge, but also to write a check and give to the organization so they they have this massive opportunity, but they but they can’t communicate with these donors in the same way that they do those who are have been part of their network for a long time. Um, and they can’t necessarily count on ah, high number of them that turn around and get to them again. Yeah, i know that that was one of the things that barbara, uh, sure, i can remember her last name remember the name of the ceo of charity water, peter barbara. She was a guest in any case, it’s not so much a lot. The last slaughter, who is their top development person and, you know, they’ve they’ve come up with some some things that they think are working well for them, and one of them is is communicating a lot about the impact of the gifts that we’re given and talking about the progress that those gifts have made on dh then in turn, saying, you know, additional support will help us get, you know, here, here and here, so they’re they’re really putting a big focus on, you know, showing not only showing the impact of the gifts, but also showing that they’ve been spending those funds wisely and are getting results out of it. And that’s that’s been a message they found not only works well, but also validates a lot of ah lot of what people did for them two years ago when they did yeah, wellit’s a smart way to start to engage people, and they had all sorts of challenges in and opportunities when this thing broke without twenty fourteen against the in fact, and it was almost two years it was two years ago, it ended august, right? I’m pretty sure it ended. Really. It was the equivalent of winning the lottery, right? For sure, you know, they suddenly had all of this. Great. Um, these great, unexpected resource is but, you know, when you’re not planning for that there’s, you know, there’s a lot of challenges, that pompel offense, so you know, there, dave, i think dahna very responsible job of communicating about about those challenges and how they’re addressing them and what they’re learning along the way, but you know it it’s almost impossible to fall into something like that and have the and have everything. In place that you need to be able, teo capitalize on a perfectly, yeah, it’s tze fell in their lap. And, uh, that was, as i was starting to say, that was one of the challenges that barbara and i talked about when she was on in wuebben october of twenty fourteen. She was a guest for the hour. In fact, we recorded that at the chronicle, flat to the studio, because they’re in washington, d c andi, i was down there and worked it out, but i actually remember that one. Yeah, that was one of that. That was one of the highest profile well, second to this one, of course, that’s, right, that’s, right, that’s, right. Okay, s so, you know, how do how do you shepherd these new donors to your organization’s worked longer term, all right, clearly. So that’s one and i think another another key challenges is budgeting for this. You know, some some of these campaigns kind of jumped the wall and becoming really successful. Um, a and a lot of cases you can’t plan for that, and you can’t viscerally expect to replicate in the next year. So if you have somebody who, you know, does a, uh do-it-yourself campaign and they raise two hundred or three hundred thousand dollars for you, um, you can’t necessarily expect that donor to do the same thing for you next year. So how do you plan for that? How do you make sure you budget, um, responsibly for that revenue and set the right expectations within your organization. That’s. So that’s. Another challenge that we’ve heard organization’s report to us. Something else that’s mentioned in the report. That’s very closely related to that. Budgeting for for the future is just getting the volunteers to do repeat campaigns in the future. Right? Right. And that’s. Some that’s. That’s. Certainly a big challenge. St baldrick’s has been great with us. They’ve found a really creative way. Tio encourage people, tio take part multiple times and there’s their head chadband shaving campaigns um, and they’ve excuse me created am a secret society, i guess it’s not a secret society, but a society called the knights of the bald table. And if you take part in seven, uh, had shaving campaigns with them, they actually we’ll hold an event for you and have, uh, you know, basically ah, knighting ceremony for you. And you get a special pen and you get quite a bit of recognition for it. So, you know, there are some ways that organizations are tryingto deal with this issue and find some fun and creative ways to get people to come back and do something more than once. But it is a challenge because, you know, the first time i see i’m going to go sing karaoke with tony. My friends may think it’s a fun saying the second time they were like, well, i saw that act already. Yeah, right. Supported again, right, let’s like me doing blue pedicure challenge too great, right? Who cares now, now, now, if i did read pure a pedicure challenge, that would that would be different that way. A whole new campaign that’s completely different, but you can’t go back to the blue, you can never go back. Um, all right, we have a couple more minutes left. And what have we not talked about? What if i not ask you that you’d like to like to like to? Well, i think one one thing i think is really interesting on this is just the fact that it is such a a kind of an evolving form of fund-raising that that organizations are really craving information and craving opportunities connect with each other about it. So you know one thing that i’m working that try to identify our ways that not only can can we provide good resource is through the chronicle truth peer-to-peer forum and through other sources like this, but also how can we bring people together and get them talking about this war? And i certainly would welcome you know, anybody in the audience who is thinking about this and working on this, who wants to talk about it to reach out to me, reach out to you and find a way to further the conversation because i i think you know, because it’s such a evolving form of a kind of formal fund-raising now you know the book is still being written, so to speak, on how to do it well, and the more input we could get, the better contact, peter, because once this is over, i have no interest in the topic. I’m committed to nothing, so contact peter directly. Alright, i’m more than happy to know i’m committed. I’m committed everything all right. He’s on twitter, he’s at p panepento write the name of the report is the do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook. Is there a is there a convenient earl at att the chronicle site? Peter? Um or no, i have a far from convenience. Okay, yeah. That’s the one i have. So just the do-it-yourself fund-raising handbook, you’ll find it on the chronicle of philanthropy site labbate and and i believe they are after labor day going to start really heavily marketing it, and including it and their philanthropy today newsletter another six to so there will be you know, there’ll be a lot of opportunities see it. And if you follow me on twitter, i will be tweeting about it and sharing the limbs. There quite a bit over the next few weeks as well. Okay, very cool. Very cool. Uh, all right. So i want to thank you again for coming on quickly again, since just since august. That was very gracious of you. You do cool reports. So so i’m happy to give voice to them. But now i’ve lost interest in the topic. So it’s all good. So we get fifty, fifty minutes of your attention and that’s it. Yeah, i get that there’s a lot going on. It’s a busy place? Absolutely. Well, i look forward to the next. The next time i help with something that is of interest to you for, you know, a half hour and hour that’s, right? Don’t about it trying to move on and we’ve got another next-gen alright, do not assume it’ll be an hour next time. Thank you for well done. No, thank you very much. Peter. Thankyou. Thankyou, tony. All right. My pleasure. Next week, next week? I don’t know. I can’t say, but, you know i won’t let you down. If you missed any part of today’s show, i beseech you, find it on tony martignetti dot com responsive by pursuant, they have a year end accelerator pursuant dot com slash year and accelerator for your year end fund-raising and by we be spelling supercool spelling bee fundraisers, we b e spelling, dot com, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is alive producer here with me, gavin. Dollars are am and fm outreach director shows social media is by susan chavez, and our music is by scott stein. Thank you for that, scotty, beam me with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Kayman what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth gordon this’s, the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark insights orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing so you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff to sort of dane toe add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were on dh and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It zoho, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sacristan. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.