Nonprofit Radio for August 30, 2019: Online Major Giving & Online Adversity

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My Guests:

Adam London, Carrie Rice & Anneliese Davis: Online Major Giving
Do you have web forms for your major donors? Our 19NTC panel hashes the pros and cons of automating major giving and—if you decide to expand to online—how to work around the obstacles. They’re Adam London at Project Donor Love; Carrie Rice from Carrie Rice Consulting; and Anneliese Davis with Rahab’s Sisters.

Burt Edwards: Online Adversity
How do you maintain personal and organizational values when people are screaming at you in the social networks? Burt Edwards, our panel of one from 19NTC, shares strategies and systems that keep your staff, supporters and social ambassadors safe when they speak out online. He’s from Friends of the Columbia Gorge.

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Transcript for 455_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190830.mp3 Processed on: 2019-08-31T18:57:44.018Z S3 bucket containing transcription results: transcript.results Link to bucket: Path to JSON: 2019…08…455_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190830.mp3.155990547.json Path to text: transcripts/2019/08/455_tony_martignetti_nonprofit_radio_20190830.txt Hello and welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit Radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of Psycho in Drusus if you hard into me with the idea that you missed today’s show online. Major e-giving. Do you have Web forms for your major donors? Are 19 ntcdinosaur. Hash is the pros and cons of automating major e-giving. And if you decide to expand toe online, how to work around the obstacles there? Adam London at Project Donors of Carry Rice From Carrie Rice Consulting and Annalise Ed Davis with Ray ABS Sisters and online Adversity How do you maintain personal and organizational values when people are screaming at you in the social networks? Bert Edwards, Our panel of one from 19 NTC shares strategies and systems that keep your staff supporters and social ambassador’s safe when they speak out online. He’s from Friends of the Columbia Gorge on Tony’s take to your board’s role in planned e-giving responsive by Wagner CPS Guiding you beyond the numbers wagner cps dot com By koegler Mountain Software Denali fundez. They’re complete accounting solution made for non-profits tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain for a free 60 day trial and by turned to communications, PR and content for non-profits, your story is their mission. Turn hyphen to dot CEO. Here’s online Major e-giving Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. You know what that is? It’s a 2019 non-profit technology conference. You know that we’re coming to you from the convention center in Portland, Oregon, and at all of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at Act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact. What you don’t know is that my panel now is seated with me. And they are Adam London carry Rice and Anna Lisa Davis. Adam is founder of Project Donors of Carrie is non-profit consultant carry Rice consulting and Anna Lisa Davis is the executive director at Rehabs Sisters. Welcome altum each of you. Thank you, Tony. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. Your session topic was 21st century major e-giving creating an effective online major gift program. I thought this was interesting. I don’t I don’t see much about online major e-giving program. So that’s what caught my attention to this. Why I invited you to come. I like to start down The end is the person down? The end sometimes feels at least at least part of this, although they’re not. But sometimes they feel so we’re gonna start with Lisa. Um What? What? What are the possibilities? Just like headline over a big, big picture. What are the possibilities here online, Major e-giving. Well, we’re a very small organization that didn’t really start doing fund-raising in an intentional way until I came on board is the first staff member a year and 1/2 ago. And so, working with carry on, Adam, they’ve helped us think creatively about how we engage people online without having a huge development staff or a lot of board members who could go out and talk to Major Gibbs. Okay, So you moved it online or you didn’t move it online. You started it online. We started a major give program is native online. It is okay. And you work with Carrie? I did. Yeah, we did. We do. Absolutely. She did a wonderful board treat for us last year, and then it grew into this project. No surprise, Carrie, uh is this a trend that I’m not aware of. Are you seeing Maur? We arika program. We’re starting. We’re starting the trend. Yes, we It was more like an area where we saw the But there was a hole out there, which was that there are people who, for example, in an in person ask if you let’s say you’ve done all the research, you’re ready to make the ask for 25 $6100 whatever it is that if you then get a pledge from them, you have to go home, get in envoys, right attack, get a return envelope and so forth and do all these things to make the donation. Whereas in this way someone says, Yeah, that’s it. $100,000 sounds great. And you say, Well, if you want, you can fill out this form right now and get your frequent flyer miles right now on your black card, you know, and boom, it’s done. So that was something that people started saying, like, That’s a really good idea on Ben also being able to directly using direct mail or using email to be able to contact people who are major donors in Anna Lisa’s case, they’re just now figuring out what a major donor is and what their capacity is, but figuring out what that number is and then being able to direct people to a different form. It’s not a poor form and a rich form, it’s just an unlisted folk. Are you directly? Yeah. We’ll get to the details. Okay. Adam. What? What? What’s? Ah, Product dahna loves rolling This You have online Major e-giving Also Sure. So project dahna Love is an agency in San Francisco. We design and build custom websites on reporting a Pardon me. Oh, you’re okay. You’re not a non-profit. I’m not a non-profit. Okay? Project dahna love sounds like Okay, Okay. I’m sorry I interrupted you expect so? Yes. We built we design and build custom websites and reporting tools for non-profits. We have a particular interest in donation forms in optimizing and customizing donation forms to make them to get maximum conversions out of them. And we also interested in bringing in modern U ex practices and also leveraging the organization’s data to really improve their fund-raising online. Okay. Okay. Um, so what’s the, uh Well, I guess including for rehab sisters this is This is the beginning of your major gift program. You’ve just been doing fund-raising, you said, for a year and 1/2 for him for amore mature organization that’s got a well established major gift program. And let’s say you know our listeners, Aaron Small, a midsize shop. So let’s say they define a major gift as $10,000. Okay, And of course, they have giving $1000 level. There’s a society for that, etcetera. But they define for their fund-raising major gifts $10,000. Carrie. What would what would be the advantage to looking at an online major gift program for them? What would that look like? Well, the first thing is, we have very passionate and strong views about recurring gifts. So if you were someone who considered yourself prepared to give $10,000 is a one time gift, there’s a pretty good chance that you’re willing to give $1000 a month. So I just raised your gift 20% and now you can split it up into $1000 a month, which fits into your monthly budget. So it’s kind of ah, different way of thinking, but it’s just right right there off the top. By encouraging the recurring gifts on the major for on the form it gives people the opportunity to actually give us give someone a little more. So what’s new then, is that we’re offering someone the opportunity. Thio make a $10,000 gift online. And then I understand we’re trying to convert them to Stainer, but we’re we’re offering higher levels of giving online. That’s crap. In the exhibition, which case over 5000 you’d have to send a check or transfer stock. Exactly. Exactly. And in the case of an organization like rehab sisters, they use a fairly small, less robust donation platform. And so we kind of had to pick. Are we going to encourage one time gifts or we gonna encourage recurring gifts? And so, in this particular case, we chose Onley monthly gifts and to make it on Lee a major gift sustainers level period because that was the best thing to do with the software that was available in this situation. And Elisa, What kind of outcomes are you seeing? What kind of interest are you? Feedback getting any feedback from donors? Well, we’ve just started rolling it out with our supporters. We have been Typically, we’ve had very low, you know, like a $15.20 dollar a month sustainers kind of program on. And now we’re being able to go out and ask folks for us, Would you do $100 a month? We could just click right here and get you signed up. And people like the convenience of being able to do it right then and there. Um, and it just it kind of speed the process along because again, being a one person shop for everything I am, the less follow-up I have two. D’oh! After that particular meeting, the better, much, much better. It’s time for a break. Regular C P A. Is they have a new wagon are on September 10th. Leaders Guide to Understanding, not for profit financials, CEOs, board members, directors You don’t need accounting details that’s not necessary for you, but a realistic and basic understanding of financial statements will boost your decision making. You’ll find it at weinger cps dot com. Quick resource is and upcoming events Now back to online major giving. Adam What? What is your advice around streamlining this process that we’re talking about. Carrie was talking about trying to get recurring gifts. That’s definitely part of it. But the biggest thing probably is segmentation, actually, with all fund-raising segmentation critical, but particularly when we’re talking about major gifts online. Firstly, we want the major gift for more forms to be something that is hidden from the main navigation. So this is something that you are only directing your major givers to via email or doing it in person or by direct mail. Okay, And then what is that? Well, because the first reason is that there’s no very graceful way to have a donation landing page that says, You know, big money Year little money here, Onda. Also, if you have a single donation form that has both very large suggested mounts in the thousands of dollars on more typical 29 2150 that’s a confusing situation for anyone who lands. There is a small donor. Those large amounts might make you think, Well, that’s my $50 gift. Even worth it if they’re asking for $5000 okay. And if you’re at the high end right, you’re feeling like, why am I? Why am I on the same page is the $25 Don’t exactly. Yes. Do they really need this? 5000 different? There are $25. So putting them, making sure that these two populations get into donation forms that are targeted at the amount you expect them to make you see. And then you can also have multiple donation forms. There’s another great aspect off doing this online because if you’re able to segment your don’t know major donors more finally into high high level donors, high mid owners, et cetera, then you can have separate donation forms for each of these segments or separate donation forms for campaign or things like that. Okay, okay, um, from your session description, you you talked about using Is it events? As an in person asked Carry, you were describing? The person asked earlier. What about that events? How does that look? Like so at an event? So let’s say you’re having a reasonably priced, for example, like a gala or something, that 100 t it’s $10 a ticket, Um, and then you have ipads set up around the room and, oh, are you have interns or assistants who are able to go around from table to table and say, You know, instead of filling out this pledge envelope like you’ve seen those pledge envelopes in the middle of the table, please take a pledge of open fill it out. But if someone came up to you and said they’ve got a tablet in here you go. I’m gonna hand it to you right now. And I’m not going to show you the $15 to $75.1. I’m going to show you the Esso We’re going around to the tables. The tables are saying What Anyone What exactly What is that look like? You’re saying what? I would like to make a gift tonight, Right? Exactly. Exactly. And then just say I have a really easy way. And then I like to be somewhat playful for it and say, you know, you could have your frequent flyer miles by tomorrow. Yeah, You know, just just being able to say, like, just do this right here, right now and boom, you’ll get an instant Thank you. That has a photograph and an impact statement. And then I know for rehab sisters, they send ah, hand written, personalized Thank you Card. A little bit later in the future, but they get that instant gratification. All right, So, Annalise, that you’ve done this at events or an event? Not yet. That’s good. Sign. Coming. Coming. Coming up. Okay, okay. They’re just really good at thinking people. I just know that from personal. All right, so then you just So then the person with the was working for the organization, Just asked, how much would you like to donate? Right. So they’re going to show them a major donor level. So again, like, let’s say it’s $200 a person, and so you’ve got on the sheet on the form, you know, 500 a 1025 105,000 and fill in the amount you want. And then they look at that and they can say, What can I give $100? Yes. Can I give a million dollars? Yes, but we’re we’re prepping them. Were prompting them to be thinking OK paid $200 to come here, and I was planning on giving something anyway. And this is like this super super simple way to do it. All right, So if it is ah, $200 a ticket gala. Where would you start the ask string? What would your advice speak? Ah, well, I would say get them drinking. First way to talk about the time I just wear hearing that. Yeah. So 20 and physically, You know, on the donation form, what would you start the ask string with the with the numbers be mount. What amount would you start? No, that’s particularly gonna depend on the whole matter. Ask. Yeah, it is okay. Making me feel like I don’t know what I know I’m feeling. I just I didn’t know. You thought I meant what? Where, like what time in the program. Okay. Yeah, really? You can’t generalize of its $200 ticket. Would you start the ask string up to 50 or 505 100 or something like that? Yeah. Um I mean, we are still in the early stages. We’ve just It’s only been less than a year that we’ve been doing this so we don’t have a huge number to look at me. Oh, yeah. We think it really depends on the organization. And we want to work with the executive director, the development director, maybe even the board to get an idea of what feels like they’re normal. Okay. You want to look at the donation history of the organization to see what kind of major gives that? Got what? The average major can build the US base it more visible on a e-giving history of the organization, like medium givers. Then the ticket price. Okay, Okay. I take the simple minded approach. See, my fund-raising is all the consulting out. It was all planned e-giving So we’re not talking about these events, you know? We’re not gonna sign your way. Have an attorney in the corner preparing wills or way Do it through legalzoom if you want. You know you can, you know. So I’m not doing event based play e-giving fund-raising. Right? But on the major gift form, there could be a little box there that says I am interested for sure, Absolutely. But I’m you know, I’m not running fund-raising at events as planned giving, but I’m not saying Of course, I I’m the evangelist for plan giving with that without the religious overtones. I mean, I’m always put it on your envelope flaps. Put on your business cards. Put in your email signature included in your will ask how? Yes. Absolutely Another great point about these. I guess. I was just trying to justify myself minded suggestion of basing it on the ticket price. Okay, Go ahead. Adam. I’m sorry. Yeah. I wanted to say another great point about doing this online is that you can also integrate these online forms into a more traditional major gift. Ask situation. Living room. Explain that. Oh, yes. So you could make the couple has decided No point in waiting. Exactly. Like if you’re online form works well with mobile devices, which you definitely should do. Then you can bring a tablet to a meeting with major donor. Sure. And then when they’re ready to make the donation instead of writing the check or getting a promise to make a donation, you can actually have them get the credit card to make the donation, right? Would you like to do it right now? No pressure, exactly. But if you like, we could We could do it right now. And you can have your frequent flyer miles tomorrow. And I think that free and Elisa, that’s gonna end up being a good fit for your board members. For example, Yes, absolutely. Um and Adam, I was I was thinking about in my previous life before I did grassroots non-profits and I did a large asks from major donors up. I had one asks situation where the CEO insisted that after the person who made the $100,000 commitment, she had to get their credit card right then and the only thing I had in my purse was a valet ticket. And so we wrote her credit card for $100,000 gift with the back of a valet ticket. And so this approach altum sophisticated, sophisticated, secure, right, right. That’s an interesting policy, CEO Yu, That is not a little pressure for ah, gift officer. You you have to get the credit card. She was She was closer. She was all right. She is a bold woman. Thanks for your commitment. Let’s do it right now. I mean, I’m saying, let’s offer to do it right. Rather not use our tablet. You’re welcome to mail you a check or we never even pull out the tablet in the first place because you just know that that’s not the right person based on the conversation, even still in their eighties. And they’ve already told you three times that they never made a single purchase online. They’re certainly not gonna make their $50,000 gift. Exactly your tablet. Okay, of course. Okay, uh, we’re all learning here. I’m trainable. Treatable. Um, let’s see the event. That’s really interesting about the events. Um, you also talked about how to create the forms. Adam, any more advice on the you can share on the details of the form I love. Of course. I love the plant Giving checkoff. Sure. So thank you for that. As I said, segmentation is key to this. You want to have a separate home for the major gift form and then ideally have different major gift forms, different giving levels or different segments that you’ve identified within your major donors? You definitely, especially on a major gift for model. Give formers, Really? But these sort of things become more important as the money goes up. You want to form to look like the rest of your organization’s website. That’s a place where a lot of non-profit forms. Unfortunately, full down is you’ll find a great, well designed website, good information, easy to navigate and then you reach the donation form and it looks nothing like the rest of the site. It’s a default site. It’s a default donation form for whatever vendor they have for their online donation. For so finding an online donation form that you can make it look like your sight. We can get a CZ much control as you can. Over what information you’re asking. Four. So you’re not asking, you know, forcing people to enter the phone number, for example. Things like that. Yes. You want to control, You want it to look like a form. And you definitely wanted to work well on mobile devices. Yeah, we’re past the mobile mobile mobile optimization discussion. Oh, yes. We just know that everything everything, including your donation form and needs to be optimized for a tablet and phone. OK, we’re past that. Oh, yes. We still but we still have to bring it up. We start, we do have to bring it up. Unfortunately, yeah, we still dumpster full way still remind people that over 50% of peep people today are using mobile first, so it’s only gonna go up from here. It’s not going to go down. Okay? Okay, and at least I’m feeling bad about you over there. But you don’t. You don’t have a lot of experience just rolling this out. So, uh, what do you Anything you wanna say that is related to what, Uh, Adam and Carrie, You’re saying, uh, you want to contribute? I mean, just beyond. From what? We were just talking about it for a small shop, Something like this is a really handy tool toe, have. Like I said, you don’t have to worry about doing as much follow-up. And you’ve got something in your back pocket. You can pull up and you don’t have to use a valet ticket. So wrinkled valet ticket. It’s a good point is you don’t necessarily need to have a huge budget to get started with this. Very good. That’s implicit in what we’re saying. Yes, we identify rehabs as one employee. No, but thank you for making one and 1/2 now, right? Oh, no. Technically, we’re both part times 11 tone. Oh, yeah. All right. So But thank you for making explicit Adam. Absolutely right. This is ideal for small shops, right? There’s a lot of online donation tools that do have reasonable donation forms that you can work with to integrate NTS site, make it look reasonably like inside and then use those to get started with. Of course, you know, spending more money lets you have more flexibility in terms of what the form is ensuring into personalization for each individual, which could be very powerful. And what Adam was saying earlier about where you send people online because our support has typically come from volunteers who give very small amounts transition we’ve gone through now where we’re going out into the community and getting much larger gifts. Volunteers. I’ve been really worried about how volunteers are gonna feel like, Is there $15 gift not valued anymore? That’s if they see all these hyre options. Statham’s point of having segmentation of dahna donation forms so that one caps out at 7500 right? Okay. In the ask string. Yes, I was I was implicitly It was implied that I didn’t know what I was talking about. Uh, obstacles. You have a little discussion about obstacles, challenges to this on how to overcome them. Carry well, having having had the opportunity to work with Anna Lisa and her board as it was going through a transition, and a new board was coming on where there were, in particular people who were coming on that had a lot of non-profit experience. We having the board’s support for something like this when it was very possible when we proposed this to Anna Lisa that her board could have said like, What do we need for with a major gift form? We’ve only been, you know, But she has an incredibly supportive board. And so, making sure that you have boards support and that they understand why you’re bothering to do this is a key component of it. It’s not just about the staff and the donors being happy, but it’s also about making sure that, well, that that everybody gets it and that the board supports it. What would you say it was? Your, uh, we’re putting you in hypothetical. Now you’re in a board meeting, and, uh, they’re saying exactly, that would mean online donations, for we have meetings. We have. We have We have two little bigger organization. We have, uh, we have two full time fundraisers. What we eat online donation form forward. Who’s this consultant who brought this consultant to this meeting, right? Exactly. Don’t go that far. Yeah, well, yeah. No e. Everybody is grateful for consultant. Why would anybody about a consultant, But just not to your face. What would you say to that room? Reluctant board. I would say this is the in the improv. The yes, and you know, this is Yeah. Everything you’re doing is great. We’re not telling you to do anything different. We’re just giving you an additional tool to use. And so if, for example, I were stewarding someone and things have been going really well and I’m ready to send them an email solicitation that I can put the hyperlink to the major gift form. Same thing with a direct mail piece. Same thing with a conversation, whatever. But I can. I can build that as being a norm for those donors, but it’s really up to the officer of how they’re going to use it again. Annalise doesn’t have the opportunity to have someone who’s going to be dedicated to using this, but she also she’s very sophisticated with her online users, so she’s gonna be ableto go in and change. The amounts are at another form or do those kinds of things on her own on Dhe. And then if she ends up with a development director and in the not too distant future, then that person can say, OK, wow, amazing. This organization already has this tool set up for me. I’m gonna see where it’s appropriate to use it to persuade the board that is just another tool and uses that at their discretion when the relationship is right or the boardmember right? Yeah, I also hear that it’s a future facing thing that this I think that online major fund-raising is going to be more and more standard as time goes on. I mean, where were based in San Francisco. There are plenty of young households with an income over 300,000 who don’t really use checks for anything. Yeah, so there’s plenty of people out there who are willing to make major gifts online for cash using cash either. But you’re right that as they mature, it’s gonna it’s just gonna that trend is just gonna continue. Yeah, I was with somebody, uh, they were nephew and niece, probably under 30 at the time, and we were coming back from a restaurant and they were locked out of their apartment. And the building owner sent the representative. But it was late, So there was a $50 service charge t open the lock, and neither one of them had the cash and they couldn’t, and they got into the apartment, you know, he did let them in and they couldn’t find their checkbook. I mean, I know exactly where my checkbook is, and I always carry cash. But neither one of them had either have to fry 50 bucks for the surface for the midnight service call to get them into their apartment, to not find cash or a cheque book inside that couldn’t find it dollars back? Uh, no, that’s still a point of contention. And as a result, I did not send a birthday gift this year. Um, don’t Don’t mess with me. I bailed him out. If it hadn’t been for me, the guy would not have let them in. What they have done, gone to an A t. M. Maybe they couldn’t find the debit card. They couldn’t find the checkbook for guns. And I know exactly where my checkbook in my top dresser drawer. Right, But um, you know, if you had a, uh, habit If that vendor if that the person that was sent out had the square, then they could take the person’s credit. Unsophisticated. That’s where things were going is that I want to be able Thio Just go on my phone and be like, 0 $50 to Tony, $50 Bhuvan, you know, And so why not take that to these other levels of? It’s just that’s how they’re used to doing things, you know, they go on Amazon and, you know, uh, Adam and I were interviewing someone. At one point he was talking about how she walks around her house with her phone, and when she notices that she needs something, she literally just goes on. Amazon places in order. And then later in the day, she’ll place another order like it’s just it’s her pendant. She just orders things one at a time. So why not make donating that easy to, you know, as close to an e commerce site as possible without being an e commerce site? Unless you’re like you, said one of the enterprise sized non-profits, who really can make this a robust program and as rehab sisters grows, you know, they’re looking at their own donor-centric management software and saying, Oh, well, this has certain limitations on it. As we grow, we can change products and find something that’s gonna allow the monthly gifts and the the onetime gifts in a way that works best. Yeah, All right, You know what? That’s Ah, perfect wrap. That’s a perfect conclusion. We’re gonna leave it. There they are. Adam London, founder of ah, Project Donor Love, which is not a non-profit sultan. See, Thank you. Carry Rice non-profits, Consultant also carry rice Consulting and Anna Lisa Davis, the executive director of Rehabs Sisters, thanks to each of you. Thank you so much. You’re welcome. And thank you for being with Tony martignetti non-profit Radio coverage of 19 NTC. All of our 19 ntcdinosaur views are brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools help non-profits make an impact. We need to take a break. Cougar Mountain Software Here’s a quote We use Denali Fund for non-profits. It’s easy to track how much is in each fund. That’s fairly simple to use and the training is very helpful and thorough. Customer service has been responsive and caring. That’s Laurie D. From a church and also a quote all the features of a sophisticated fund accounting system at a reasonable cost. That’s Kim T. From Lawrence Township, and this is all about Cougar Mountain software. They have a free 60 day trial on the listener landing page at tony dot m a slash Cougar Mountain. Now, time for Tony. Stick to your board’s role in planned e-giving. Um, there is a video on this, of course, as there is, uh, there are all the all the critical subjects facing mankind. I’ve got a video on all of them and this the week it’s your boards, giving in your boards role in planned e-giving steps up at first. Um, first blush, let’s say, um, their own personal gif ts They need to be committed to the organization to the extent that they included include your organization in their will or some other state plan. And that’s reasonable to expect because they are your highest level volunteers. There you’re insiders there fiduciaries if legal duties to your organization and, um, their duties go beyond legal, including fund-raising support, and how can they ask others if they haven’t done it themselves, and that’s one of the other roles that they can fill. Once they have included you in their state plan, then they could be asking others their peers on the board, other volunteers, major donors. They could be encouraging other planned GIF ts from those folks hosting events, introducing you to other people. They could combine those that could host an event in their home and invite some of their friends to find out about more about your organization. There’s a lot that you’re bored can do around planned e-giving, and you find me, uh, saying more about it, flushing it out on my video, your boards rolling. Planned e-giving and that’s at tony martignetti dot com. That is Tony’s Take two now online adversity. Welcome to Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC. You know that’s the 2019 non-profit Technology Conference in Portland, Oregon, at the Convention Center on day three of the Conference three like gum in puberty and all of our 1990 see interviews are brought to you by our partners. That act Blue Free fund-raising tools to help non-profits make an impact with me is Bert Edwards, He’s communications director at Friends of the Columbia Gorge. Burt, Welcome. Thanks. Tony is great to be here. It’s good to have you back. Thank you. We think it was We think it was about three years ago. It ntcdinosaur? Yeah. San Jose Sense sense in San Antonio was sent. No sandals. I’ve got my hands. Okay. Okay. It was That was either 15 or 16. We’re not sure. All right. It’s good to have you back. Uh, you’re session this year is Social Security combating fake news, triaging twitter, trolls and dealing with digital distractions. A lot of injuries. I start out. Why do we need this session? I don’t think we need to think. Well, well, I’ll give you well, Put it this way. What do you feel like? Non-profits. Need to know that they don’t about managing trolls and digital distractions. Well, there’s actually a interesting background history for how this panel came to be. And so this panel was one of a couple panels that the end tem team had picked out as a community session as far as a topic that they wanted Thio speak about, uh and so I ended up getting in contact with Amy and ash and, uh, worked with them to kind of put together the concept. They actually connected me with my first panelist, Ken Montenegro, whose on the End 10 board and then can we were kind of fine time for include tuning, so to speak, the topic because we really want to make a discussion. He suggested that we reach out to actually the keynote speaker idiot who was able to join us. So it really kind of came together as, ah, community topic. And it’s something, sadly, that all non-profits they’re dealing with these days we’re gonna talk about how to keep your staff, your supporters and social ambassador’s safe. When they’re talking about your organization online, where they’re putting themselves out as the face of the organization, how do they stay safe? Um, and then you had a group exercise to What was that? So basically, instead of eso when Kenan mediating and I were chatting instead of ah, doing power point, we decided we really want to have a discussion with the audience. And as we don’t have ah, we wish we did have a magic box that we could give her everyone to deal with trolls and digital distracters these days, we thought instead, we share some lessons that we’ve learned and then have a discussion for people to share other things and have a conversation. Um, so that overall was the challenge. So the first exercise we did was I actually walked through an example, something that happened to me, which was a case of every day you come into work on one of my colleagues came to us with our social listening report, and all of a sudden someone was tweeting at us and accusing us of stealing a photo online. They hadn’t e mailed to reach out that we had bought the photo inappropriately off him. They were just calling us and our CEO of photo geever. And they started then tagging media out, saying that this organization and this person stole our photo. Um, and that and so actually I talked a little bit about the situation I then asked. We then had a discussion with members are argast as far as how they would have handled. It was interesting. I got some suggestions for what we ended up from, actually, some things that we didn’t end up doing, but it would be interesting to try. Well, that’s all flush out a little bit. So what? Well, first, what did you do? What did you do? We? Well, what we did was after we looked into it. What it turns out is that the photo we had bought was from 1/3 party photo vendor. The photographer at some point had had a falling out with, and I don’t remember the outlet, and I won’t. I won’t use their name. Sure. At some point, she had had a falling out with that group. She had taken her photos down. And so all of the organization, because there was a number of non-profits. Our non-profit had bought that photo to do some work on Syria, and they were the number non-profits had bought that photo. She either did a similar thing as far as kind of threatening them on Twitter. Or she’s kind of set, like, kind of a legalistic sort of Ah, season desist. Yeah, yeah. Um So we tried to find a way to actually engage the person in a conversation that we didn’t have a contact information. We sent them a GM. They did not respond. So at that point, I came up with two plans. One was We decide to go ahead and take the photos down, because when we take photos, even though we had about the photos legally, But we take that very seriously, Andi, that we couldn’t engage with the dialogue with the person that was that was the least passive resistance. And as the alternative, what I had prepared to do was to engage her on my personal Twitter account so I could deal it, escalate the situation as far as it wasn’t our institutional social media accounts and her and said it would be metoo communications director talking thio this unhappy for did she end up engaging with you as an individual? Well, actually, when we took the photos down, she thank the New York Times. Although the New York Times didn’t contact us about stealing on her photos, Um, and then she stopped. So I didn’t have to face-to-face D’oh! Okay, Okay. What were some of the suggestions you got in the session? How to deal with it? You know, we got a really interesting suggestion that I didn’t think of it, and someone suggested that we should have taken a photo of the receipt that we had and put a note on Twitter saying, Hey, we’re sorry that you’re concerned we actually bought this legally. Here’s the receipt and that’s interesting approach might have been kind of antagonistic. A cz um, her tweets were fairly hostile, so it might have worked. Come. It’s hard to say whether that would have egged her on the other challenges. It was consuming a lot of our time, okay? And that was one thing that we had were after is an issue. Even if you’re in the right, it may just be easier to fold. It’s not. It’s not that big a deal. Maybe it’s not worth fighting a battle over. Exactly. And that was one of things that we talked about at at the session is when do you make that make make that judgment call? Because I mean, like, for me, it’s like I really want to protect my staff of my colleagues, Um and so being accused of wrongly steal a photo for me, I took very seriously and also photo rights. I mean, I also take really seriously, but in this case it was consuming a lot of bad with knowing me. But the personnel manager social media accounts. And that was something again. We discussed this faras while you might want to fight, it distracts you from your mission. And so, in this case, making making the situation go away so we could get back to our work. I wonder if it’s worth saying Thio tweeting that, uh, wait, We’re out of respect for the photographer. We’re taking the question of question about photograph down. But we want our supporters. We want you to know that we did legally buy it. I don’t know if at that point you would put a photo of the receipt, the invoice paid invoice, whatever, or just say we have a paid invoice. But in the interest of fairness and whatever, you know, we’re just gonna We’re just gonna fold it. We’re just gonna take the photo down. But we want you all to know that the accusation is not right. I like that approach because it’s very transparent for your other users who might be on wondering about what aboutthe presumption is. If they take it down, then they’re in the wrong right? So you’re saying No, that’s not the case. We’re willing to take it down out of just simplicity and fairness. But we’re not. We’re not in the wrong here. Exactly. Another thing about your approach is that I, like is also is a chance for us organization to restate your values, which is a photography rights is really important. Electoral property is a treasure exactly and way don’t violate that way. Have a receipt if anyone wants to see it. Well, you know, the mos or something like that. We have an invoice. Okay. Eventually, I said we could learn. We learn from the crowd. Of course. Um what else? What else? Uh, what other types of situations did you talk about? Our might non-profits encounter? You know, one thing that came up that was interesting. This is hard for me. It’s a communications director, but one of my co panelists brought up the point that, you know, sometimes you might need to push back on your communication staff or have a dialogue about Why are we Why do we want to broadcast this information as sometimes? Maybe there’s a reason that point information out and and sometimes not. And she was talking about. So here’s an example. When she was when she was talking. It made me think back from from the past. So when I was working at the US Institute of Peace, I remember we were meeting with our colleagues in the religion in Peacemaking Initiative, and they were doing some really great work on D. U S Institute. He’s being a taxpayer funded in front organization, and it was really important for the public know what they’re doing with the taxpayer dollars. And so we’re trying to come up with ways to put out more information about what what the religion priest make initiative was doing the challenges. A lot of the facilitation is that they were doing overseas the people in the participants who would come those inter religious sorts of conversations. Often they would come at their own personal risk. And so we were chatting with our colleagues in one of our colleagues, said, I understand, and I agree. We need to talk more about the work that we do. But if we accidentally, for instance, talk about put the participants of a recent workshop that they had had in Nigeria, those participants and even parts of their family’s lives could be at risk, and the outreach value, you just isn’t worth it. And so that was actually a good conversation that we had with the program stuff. I mean, we were able to come up with a middle ground on one of those being that we would have a conversation and some things that they did. We’re just too sensitive. And even though it would be great to talk about them, we just wouldn’t know the risk that we made a mistake. And then someone got hurt because he never want that to happen. And so that was one thing that came up. And I thought that was a good conversation as Faras again engaging your communications and outreach people to think about what you’re putting out and why, and if you really need to put it out there or not, how about from the audience? Did, uh, did, um, challenges arise or situations arise from the audience that you remember that you can share? Yeah, there was an interesting question that came up. Um, I’ve encountered this a little bit as well, and it was a challenge about when you’re working in a coalition or with partners with other non-profits, and it’s a sensitive issue and or you may have information about services or constituents that’s sensitive. How do you deal with that? Particular Because Or Tasers have different levels of mean. Non-profit will be vastly different size and resource is on. They might have different approaches. Thio. How they deal with with privacy and or And that was that was interesting conversation that one member of the audience raised because it was something they were dealing with, and they just kind of want to talk through it. And so that was nice for that person. Will that kind of talk about what they were going through? Not only the panelist, but other folks and nines were able to offer some thoughts and suggestions. So where did you hear What are some of the suggestions? Well, actually, that I want listeners toe learn from learn from what you learned. Well, actually, it was interesting. That was partly where this where we went into discussion about thinking about what information you need to put out. Uh, there were several suggestions that members the lions had, as faras secure systems that you can use Thio thio trade information as far as if it’s sensitive, not necessarily using the normally mall or even, for instance, Google docks are very popular within the non-profit community. But that type of information is probably bad for a Google doc, because it’s really hard. I don’t know exactly who has access to a Google doc s o. We talked about some obscure ways, Thio to trade information, which and share information which I thought were useless. Um, and some services people actually exchanged business cards so they could give information to each other. Um, offline. So why do you say that about Google docks? It’s it’s hard to know who who has access to it. What’s the concern there? I think the challenge with Google docks and we use that a lot is I mean, once the link is out, I mean often is in a way, I was gonna share. You don’t know who’s okay. Yeah. Okay. So just making sure that your partners are having the same sort of care for the sensitivity and protection of your data that you are a time for our last break Turn to communications, PR and content for your non-profit. They help you tell your compelling stories get media attention on those stories and build support for your mission. They’re into media relations, content, marketing, communications and marketing strategy and branding strategy. You’ll find them at turn hyphen to dot C E o. We’ve got butt loads. More time for online adversity. We still have a good amount of time together. Burghdoff. So what else? Uh, what? Uh, I’m hoping there are other situations and how they got resolved or what the discussion points were around them. That people suggestions that people had another. You got another situation? Yeah. Um, so one situation that was that was discussed. Waas Ah, there was a participant that noted that they had a challenge with having their social media feeds actually being mined and that information being used against them. So they went they actually had folks that looked at their personal Facebook and Twitter accounts on dhe, then use the information to insinuate themselves into their circles and actually did some things that were disrupted in regards Thio. They would have people sometimes show up at events that they found out their social media. Um and, um, that would reach out to people to be other people. Yeah, these imposters was that it was not asking the name of the organization, but was at a high profile organization that did some kind of provocative, controversial work that that they’re their individual members of the staff would be stalked like that. So the person in that case was working on a pretty controversial issue. Um, that was in the news. So I won’t I won’t say which justifies the action, but I’m trying to figure out what the motivation is. Just embarrassment trying embarrass somebody who stands for something that the stalker disagrees with. Cancerversary. Okay, They really were looking to disrupt the work that that person was doing on Ben and the tire network. And frankly, frankly, that throw them off. So but it was really on the ground. Everybody organizing work. So, um, which which made that even more challenging, Cause I mean, you’re out in the field, and all of a sudden you have this disruption of Yeah, Who is this person? So what the organization do, or what was the conversation around it? Well, that was interesting, because one of things that that person had taken away from the experiences eso es. They’re more careful about, um about what they put out on social media. So, for instance, I mean, personally, personally, right? So the consciousness that raised their much more careful what they personally put out on social media, they’re much more careful now in regards Thio, if they’re working on a, uh, organizing or Abssi activity overseas, as far as even just noting that they’re gonna be over there just even a casual, you know him at this diner, that sort of a photo that that sort of checking to make sure, for instance, gee, attacking is off when they’re taking that when they’re taking photos. Um, so it really changed the weather. That person kind of relates to social media, and that was someone who had really grown up, as far as you know, being an active social media users. Faras I come here with my friends and we’re having this. We’re hanging out here, we’re going to be there. I mean, that really changed the way that they they interacted. Just gonna walk in through that. Well, it doesn’t have to be circumspect about their own Facebook and Instagram posts. Tweets you had a part of the session was strategies for keeping your staff your volunteers safe. So maybe think of Ji attacking, having them in their personal posts turn Geo tagging off. What else? What other strategies you got for keeping us all safe? You know, one thing that we talked about and we did a little better serve a cause. I mean, most organizations have, like, a social media policy that kind of think about how you talk on social media. One thing a lot of organised don’t have. Although when we did a survey of surprised more Cokes did have it is having a policy in place, eh? So that if you have a member of your staff that is being harassed because of who they are on social media, So, for instance, this is had walked through our CEO at my last job because we had a lot of experts that spoke out on a lot of issues in regards to humanitarian and development that could be controversial. Um, and if one of our experts was out speaking, and all of a sudden they were personally attacked, even maybe docks and I just kind of walked our CFO. So what could we do? As far as what we’ve prepared as faras if they need like personal security to be able to help them out, or if they might need to. Stella stay in a hotel room for a couple of days. It’s like they’re just walking through some scenarios, hopefully things that would never happen. But when those things happen, things start moving really quickly. So having like actually HR policies to support, like your staff, they’re speaking on social media because if you’re asking your staff to go and put themselves out there, they’re they’re both speaking their personal capacity. But they’re also there a za person. You just need to make sure that they’re that they’re taking care of. So we talked a little bit about that. I was actually what were some of the policies that came out of this? I was really surprised to see how many non-profits I have actually thought about that. I think that’s interesting difference between from now and a couple of years ago when I had talked with colleagues and most folks didn’t have that, um, and a number of folks ice that that actually their admin in HR people. They either it had, like practices or plans in place to be oppcoll Thio help folks out. Um, and that’s where some of those practices of this practice get the detail. We drill down to the details. Yeah, I think so. So one of them actually is making sure it’s over. Example. When we’re talking about a security issue well, making sure that there’s actually like an emergency fund that you could dip into that sort of a case emergency fund your person is working remote e-giving on. But there’s there’s access to cash for an emergency. Well, even the organization as faras if if someone has a personal security problem that there’s that there’s a fun that you could tap into the organization level, right? Okay, right, because, I mean, you can have the policies that, for example, like if, like if a staff member get stocks and that you’ll put them up in a hotel, etcetera, etcetera. But if you don’t actually squirrel away like an emergency fund, a rainy day fund at your organization, so when that happens, you actually can’t pay for the hood. The motel may need a new car, a different car for the time being in a new place to live temporarily. So making sure that the money the money that the money is actually there. And that was one thing hearing from folks that organizations are moving to that next step. Um, some organizations are actually so a lot of humanitarian rittereiser will have a security team that will work with people on on security trainings. And some of those organizations have now started doing Social Media’s security training, which I think is a prudent thing to do. Yeah, so it was positive Thio here that, um so there’s actually been a lot more progress than over the past couple years. Then I might have imagined, just from consciousness has been raised. There’s a lot of headlines on dhe, particularly the organizations that are provocative, doing controversial work. They know they’re at risk, you know, they’re they’re staff is at risk. And the volunteers, I mean, a centrist. In fact, I was doing a little research before the panel. So the Pew Research Center did a study in 2017 and four out of 10 adults have they found, have experienced some sort of online harassment. And if you look at folks 18 to 29 the number jumps up to 67%. Holy cow, 2/3. 2/3 of some kind on Hein harassment attacks from 18 to 29. Yeah, that’s that’s amazing. And so that’s why my God, everybody, that you’re growing up with it now. It’s like the tooth fairy. All right, Um, that was another 67 minutes together. You got any more hope? You do. You know the story or policy you mentioned hr. But also PR session describing Talk about PR policies. What you got for? Yeah, Speaking on the communication side, I think, and like with the photo example that we talked about coming up with ways to be transparent, but also to try the de escalate, uh, questions and again, thinking about one thing as far as if you’re gonna talk about something, can you talk about it after the event or the activity has occurred. So that way your folks air out of whatever activity or if they’re overseas, that there in his own unconference actually out of the zone of conflict, and then they talk about Okay, so that’s that’s one thing to think about on the on the communication side. I’m having a so have assisting have for social listening is super important. These days so you can get information real time. I recommend most organizations to no only track your key channels. But if you have colleagues that air speaking in a professional capacity or semi professional capacity just to keep an eye on again just in case something happens that way, you’re able to zsystems situations online can estimate really quickly. It’s been out of control within a couple of minutes. Come closer to the Mike Burns. Thank you. Yeah, I think another thing to keep in mind is when you’re listening, yeah, doing they’re listening And then keep in mind like the old philosophy is don’t put anything, don’t post anything that you don’t want to see in the New York Times. Yeah, if you want to see it as a headline, he don’t post it in here. I mean, one thing that I think a lot of folks forget is that remember the press really probably won’t call you beforehand before like grabbing skin grabs and running because we’ll just assume that it’s, uh, for general attribution. So so that’s so as an as an example for folks that actively worked for the press is just good for them to keep in mind and do, like a little bit of training. So, as example, a couple years ago, when I was living in Virginia, I was having a hard time because I owed the state of Virginia $1 income tax, your scofflaw troublemaker and the system. How is the state can operate without your dollar? Well, exactly. And the system is not set up online to pay $1. Okay, It was driving me nuts as far as I was. Like, I would drive down the Richmond, but it would cost me more and gas. And I was gonna like post on social media. How frustrated. I could just send a check. Well, ultimately, I did send the check because I called the apartment revenue. Uh, ultimately, like checking the stamp was the easiest way to do it, cause even they were confounded. And there was a point when I was so frustrated, almost like, put some post on social media about how ironic and funny that I really want to pay my $1 for the Commonwealth of Virginia. But the system set up, so you really can’t. Okay, Who wants to be delinquent for tax for $1. But then I realized I have a number reporters that followed me professionally and probably my place of work really doesn’t really want that to be in, like, a news story on so that the case is far. Is this kind of You just have to be slightly careful in anything you put on social media courses. It’s this kind of public works. So it’s good to have just swallowed that one that you pay your dollar. I did all right. But I did. Thank you, but I don’t live in Virginia, but I traveled. Virginia, I traveled 95 virgin. So next, no storm will be grateful. But the plow is there on gasped Onda, the driver behind the wheel of courtesy thanks to your dollar doing doing the right thing. Yeah, I want this in the penny rolls. But I thought that costume or in FedEx, you wanted to give a little stick to it. All right, I see. Um, tell us one more story. We got about another two minutes or so. Yeah, so, actually, this is gonna go back into the wayback machine on, and this is kind of early story, but this is an example with PR. But one of those strange days that you know, your computer wasn’t working. And so I went to my colleagues on the I t t. These aren’t so strange anymore. Sometimes I wonder extreme, which is which happens more often. Andan they looked on the server, and they actually like this is you have actually have a real problem. They were So they were recited on. And so they started playing around service and okay. And now we wait, what? The issue is, um, problem server. You had a bunch of e mails backed up. Now you should be good. Unfortunately, I then started getting a flood of emails, Um, and all in French, or at least 95% of them in French, um, went back to the times like, Oh, my God, what’s happening? So they went back and changed what? They changed on the server. And I don’t have to speak French. Fortunately, like I took Spanish and Japanese and high school in college. But I had colleagues that did who told me I probably wouldn’t have one to read most of the e mails. And so what it turned out was was that, um we were going to be having an event in a couple of weeks and bringing a leader from Africa. I won’t say which one who is quite controversial s. Oh, my email box had been targeted by Abasi campaign, and my colleagues on the I T team found it as they were talking about this new tool about the date myself that they thought they could find that solution in the new tools Google. All right. And But that was a That was an interesting case, as far as it was just It was a French advocacy group that was opposed to the speaker. You’re gonna be having a driven. And I was doing and I was press lead on the event, so they had targeted my evil boss. So, um, so that was that was interested. You handle it? Well, it was you. You talk back to these people, do you engage them? You try or we didn’t, uh, in that case, I mean what we came up with A So we posted something on our website explaining why we hadn’t invited the person why we thought dialogue was important. Uh um I mean, back in those days early like way. Still working on making it a lot by fax a Zara’s with the press. So put in a statement on the website was the easiest thing to do because it wasn’t like one good distribution point. We didn’t. But we did add a note into our email newsletter again, that kind of going a longer point in the newsletter, explaining this is why we hadn’t invited this person. This is why we think it’s important from speak. We understand people disagree, but we encourage you to come. But that’s a case also, where I was seeing the number of emails that they got that I got to say that they ended up getting in and getting more security for the We had no problems. Way did have some protesters that came and spoke out, but I mean, that’s actually was good. That was a dialogue that we really want wanted to have. Okay, properly managed. It can become an opportunity. All right, we’re gonna leave it there. He’s Bird Edwards, communications director at Friends of the Columbia Gorge on this is Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of 19 NTC 2019 non-profit Technology Conference, all each of our 2019 interviews is brought to you by our partners at ActBlue Free fund-raising Tools to help non-profits Make an Impact Thanks so much for being with us next week. New Power With Henry Timms If you missed any part of today’s show, I beseech you find it on tony. 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