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Nonprofit Radio for August 28, 2015: Fundraiser Incentive Pay

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Dave Dalessandro & Liz Cooper: Fundraiser Incentive Pay

The University of Pittsburgh has created a career ladder to stem frontline fundraiser turnover—and it includes incentive pay. Explaining Pitt’s innovation and helping you think through whether this makes sense at your organization are Dave Dalessandro, associate vice chancellor for university development, and Liz Cooper, senior executive director for university development.

 


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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I go into hydro poisonous if i got exposed to the hot idea that you missed today’s show fundraiser incentive pay university of pittsburgh has created a career ladder to stem frontline fundraiser turnover, and it includes incentive pay, explaining pits, innovation and helping you think through whether this makes sense at your organization. Our dave dalessandro and liz cooper fund-raising administrators at the university on tony’s take two the ntc videos responsive by pursuing full service fund-raising data driven technology enabled, you’ll raise more money pursuant dot com i’m very glad to welcome dave dalessandro and liz cooper to the show. Dave is associate vice chancellor for university development at the university of pittsburgh and liz cooper is senior executive director for development at the university. David liz, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having us for having a it’s a pleasure, dave, i don’t i’m not sure we’ve ever had a a chancellor or vice chancellor on the show before. This sounds like a very regal term, but you’ve got a crown born there. What? You’re sitting on a throne. What? Mrs chancellor? Well, uh, associate vice chances are a lot like vice presidents in bank. Okay, a lot of you. Okay, but they prefer chancellor. Essentially, i sit over all of the individual fund-raising for the university plan giving prospect, research all the analytics and lose his second in command. Okay, uh, it’s, just interesting that some places, i guess mostly i see it, and i guess it is in universities. Prefer chancellor over president. I don’t know. I don’t know where that. Okay, i don’t know it just right. It sounds, uh, sounds like royalty. All right, um, liz, you and i are ah, you and i are the now the libyans know, um, what is your responsibility, liz? As senior executive director for development? Sure. So i oversee all of the central fund-raising operation. So i hyre orient and supervise all of our fundraisers that are located here. Centrally. I also oversee fund-raising efforts that go on in some of our smaller schools, for example, school of education or the school of social work. And i also work closely with our regional campuses. All right? And of course, ah, i wanted teo, we’ll let you know that i’m a carnegie mellon altum and no, carnegie mellon is just down the street from pit, so we’ll have no ah, we’ll have no trouble with you, please way won’t hold it against, don’t yeah, that’s. Sure it is two against one. So what am i talking about? Yeah, all right, all right, dave, why don’t you get us started? This incentive pay and the career ladder, and why was this important to do it? Back-up i’m gonna have i’m gonna have to start off on that look at this already is an anarchist anarchist already? I okay, this is what is what happens when you deal with this. What happens when you’re dealing with a chancellor? I see. Ok, ok, go ahead, liz. You start off. Um, you know, i think that it seemed like every moment i was checking my email, i was receiving an article or blogged about some big hyre education fund-raising issues, um two of which were the recruitment of major gift officers and the retention of major gift officers. During our campaign. We were fortunate to have a group of very successful and talented individual major gift officers that are loyal to the university. But as you know wherein one campaign ends, you start thinking about another, and we knew we were going to grow. So we wanted to address these issues recruitment and retention of major gift officers at pitt before they became ah common. Seem to us, if that makes sense. In other words, it was a common theme across hyre education. And we didn’t want it to be an issue here. And what do you see? As the downside of just make sure everybody eyes on the same page with this the downside of a frequent turnover of fundraisers, i think continuity is a big themes that you’ll find in development. Uh, continuity is good for donors. It’s good for the employees. It’s good for the organization. Good for the bottom line. Um, when an individual major gift officer leaves the university, uh, that relationship that they developed with that individual major gift donor repaired and start over again. So all right, so yes, we want this continuity, and donors prefer it. Donors prefer it sure they because they begin a relationship not only with pitt, but with that individual major gift officer. Yeah, for sure, dave, if you think i’m going to bring you in this conversation, you’re out of your head so you can hang up or whatever i don’t. It doesn’t matter to me. No, it sounded like there was something you were going to say, dave, you want to add something? Well, i think that one of the things that we learned was that it’s actually less expensive over the long run to retain your existing fundrasing not only have you spent time training them, and we spend a lot of time training our major gift officers, but the process of recruiting the process of, you know, matching salaries from from folks coming from larger cities or larger institutions actual becomes more expensive over time, so it seemed us that one of the things we wanted to do it was to control, uh, for those those problems when we were going from eleven major gift officers to probably thirty two, so you multiply all those problems when you’ve got three times more fundraisers and you’ve got a real problem of scale if people are coming and going, so that was a big hit was a big issue for us that, you know, once we had made this initial investment, we didn’t want to have to recoup it over and over again with new folks. Liz, you said you’re responsible for the hiring and training, so why don’t we? Why don’t we start with this? The career ladder idea and the incentive pay around around fundraiser orientation? What what’s what’s different now that you have this method of evaluation and compensation? Sure, when there’s so many young, talented folks out there that have maybe two or three years in development. These millennials, when they came to me in an interview, would ask me, where will i be a pit in five years? Or where will i be a pit? In seven years? Prior to the career ladder, i would stare back at them, and i would not be able to answer them except with simple response. We hope that you’ll still be here. So, you know, this was a really when when this was established, this was a really interesting way for us to tell that applicants there is a future for you here, and we have thought it through. How long have you been doing incentive pay and the career ladder, which we’re going to talk about? So we worked on the career rod, or for about eighteen months, and it was implemented in janu miree okay, so we’re talking, oh, wow. All right, so just eight months or so, all right, but a lot of little lead time lot of thought went into it, so go back to the orientation question then was how is training of new fundraisers different now? So a part of what we wanted to ensure was that we were orienting exceptional fundraisers and that’s, really, what the career ladder is based on is really those performers that are going above and beyond a successful and being exceptional. Part of that is us training them for the first three months of their employment to get up and running as quickly as possible. So learn how pit fund-raising tto learn how we do it. So we establish what we lovingly refer to as the academy it’s a week long, intensive training, hands on experience taught by our own staff on all the things that we think they need to know as individual fund-raising individual gift fundraiser, for example. But they get a crash course on plan giving. They get a crash course on our endowment, making the ask proposals agreement’s, etcetera. So that we feel that after that week, they really do have a great face in what it takes to be an individual major gift officer here. And what about god? I was just going to add that part of that so is the explanation is the explanation of the career excuse me? Is the explanation of the career ladder? Yes, there is actually a booklet that they get that that sets out uh all the requirements for them to in a period of three years be eligible for promotion. Okay? We’re we’re. We’re gonna we’re gonna go out a little early for a break. When we come back. We’re going to talk about what these elements are to being exceptional, there’s six of them and we’ll talk about how they fit into the career ladder all that stay with us, you’re tuned to non-profit radio tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation really all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Liz, let’s, let’s, turn to you. Would you please take off the six elements to prove that you’re an exceptional fundraiser? Sure, what well we have the first is our fund-raising visit number, dollar raised agreement sent. Agreement’s accepted the total contact that they have in our in our database, and the last is origination guest. Okay. Thank you. Um, let’s, let’s. Define some terms. What’s, an origination gift and origination gift is a gift that the development officer excuse me. Let me go back. The origination gift is a gift where the prospect was never placed in what we call active management. In other words, ah, other universities use the term maybe a legacy or one that was kind of handed down from a previous development officer to another origination gifts or those gifts that were the relationship that was established by the gift officer cultivated, solicited and closed. So their new giver to the university at the major gift level. All right, all right. And to be exceptional, you what? You have to achieve a certain level or exceed or so how do you prove that you’re exceptional across these six categories? Yeah, if it’s okay, i’ll let dave kind of handle that. And what we what? We’ve determined to be exceptional. That’s okay, trust him. Go ahead. Yeah. One of one of the things that that the career ladder does is takes a traditional major gift officer position and breaks into six steps. So at each step, step one step two, step three. Step forward. So on there are a set of performance standards. The initial performance standards are considered. This is your level of competency. This is what you’re supposed to be doing. Uh, and then you have the exceptional being in terms of money raised double that amount. And all of these other factors are not all that different at both exceptional in regular. In other words, what we’re really trying to figure out is are you doing to baseline of activity? And how effective are you taking that baseline and raising mohr gifts than the person sitting next to you? So at each level and exceptional person is always raising double the amount of money that another person in the class is raising, or with one so the ones might be exceptional taken average five hundred thousand if they could propose to it to their only exceptional, they raise a million if they get to three, they’re only exceptional. Raise two million. If they get the for their only exceptional, they raise three million. Alright, so in this system it’s entirely possible to be promoted and be exceptional as a cr m one and never leave the c r m to level because you’re not exceptional at that level. All right, so let me just way have jog in jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio c r e m is probably pretty widely known but let’s, just make explicit. I assume that’s, constituent relationship manager, charitable relationship, charitable. See, i did not have a charitable relationship manager. Okay, okay, go ahead. Sorry. And, uh, yeah. That’s that’s. Kind of where we got away from the major gift officer term. Because we felt that terrible relationship manager actually is a title that expresses the job. Yeah, related. They’re managing sheriff oppcoll relationship. Yeah, kind of like that. A charitable relationship manager. Okay, so do you to be exceptional. Do you have to do double the double the goal in all six of these categories? No. No. Okay. How does it work now? How does it work? What’s the formula. The formula is that let’s say you come in as what we call the c r m one. So you’re cr one and we tell him here’s what you need. All right. Need forty five fund-raising visits two hundred thousand new pledges. Six. Agreement sent four agreements accepted. A thousand total contacts. Into origination gets now. If you are exceptional, you’ll have forty five were mohr fund-raising visits. You’ll raise five hundred thousand maurin new pledges and gifts. You’ll have six agreement scent, or mohr for agreements, mohr, a thousand total contracts and three origination gifts. So if you managed to make all those numbers all right over a period of three years, in other words, set your average of doing at over three years. Yes, stand. At the end of the third year you’re eligible for a promotion, it would be promoted to c r, m two two. Okay, okay, what is probably should just defined this earlier, but what is the total contacts? Total contacts are all the things that you put in the database, which indicate an attempt to maintain communication with the donor. So emails, letters, phone calls, okay? That’s, pretty liberal, and then and then one of the categories i think the first one lives mentioned is is actual visits fund-raising visits, right? That that assumes that that’s a face to face meeting, yes, okay, but here’s the difference and, you know, we’ve had people say, boy, that number that numbers, so we have to make two hundred visits. Well, the only way you get credit for a fund-raising visit is that you have an actual discussion about a major gift, and in fact, all of our folks are supposed to call and say i would like to come and talk to you about your philanthropic relationship with the university of pittsburgh. So these aren’t alumni visits. These aren’t people you casually run into at a football game or a basketball game. We still count those, but you don’t get credit. We’ve got you know, we’ve got a staff that actually vets all the contact reports, determine whether you get credit or not for that visit i used to be a planned e-giving director at two colleges before i before i became a plan giving consultant. Yeah, i do. I do play e-giving telling now, but i used to be plain giving director i i’m trying to decide whether i would have loved this or hated it. I think it’s i think i would have loved it because i kind of like the office competition. Although buy-in both these shops, i had started the plan giving program, so there was no other planned e-giving fundraiser. But i mean, you could. I’m sure we could have worked out a way of comparing my work to that of frontline major gift officers, but sure. Okay, now i think i would have i don’t know if i would have succeeded, but i think i would have liked it. I don’t know. I might have been out after three years. Why did yu let’s turn to lose? But is why? Why a thirty six month average? And and also, how does that work? If someone goes out on maternity leave or or family medical leave or, you know, has an injury or something like that. But first, why the why the thirty six months? We felt like three year rolling average was a great way to measure exceptional performance and that you’re not relying on a successful year and you’re not relying on a particularly poor year, either. So for example, let’s say, ah, major gift officer has ah, year where they raised one point, one point, one million dollars it’s a great fund-raising year well, then, if you take the three year rolling average, you can’t just do nothing for the next two years and and know that you’re going to get promoted. There’s still work to be done? Um, so and on the flip side, if you have a year where you raise only two hundred thousand dollars, you still have plenty of time to make it up, so we thought it was fair in that sense. Um, the thirty six months is what hr helped us to find us as active employment, so if they are, go on maternity leave, for example, essentially their performance cycle thes thirty six months pause and it picks right back-up and thirty six months so that’s, another thing that i want to mention is that we don’t run on the fiscal year, for example, we run on a calendar year from the date of their hyre they’re hired on march first, they’re judged on twelve year cycle for a year, one from march first to march first. So if they were to go on maternity leave on march first and then it would pause for the next three months, it would then pick up on june first, and that would be the end of their very six months, if that makes it okay. So each each person’s anniversary is the date of hyre correct and and there’s a if there’s a chunk missing for medical leave or whatever, then you would just tack on more time at the end. You got it. Okay, okay. Does that does that trouble you at all that or how did you think through this one? Everybody’s got a different anniversary date. I mean, putting aside the record keeping well, we’ll get to that. I mean, that’s a ministerial we could deal with that. But the different people have different anniversaries when they’re thirty six months is up. Does that? Does that concern fundraisers at all? Is that concern you? Well, i think that they believe that that’s actually extremely. Fair um, so let’s say you start in september if you were running on a fiscal year, you’ve only got nine months of performance, so at the end of three fiscal years, you actually haven’t worked for thirty six months. You’ve worked for thirty three months this way, your guarantee that you get the full thirty six months for your promotional review, and, uh, from what i know from the folks who who work here and now live under this, they love the certainty of all this, they know when they’re going to be up for a promotional review, which almost never exists in any organisation i worked at before, one of which was carnegie mellon. You’ve got voodoo, you’ve got booted out all for emotion. No review was something that you might ask your supervisor. Hey, i’ve been doing pretty good for two years, you know, when you’re going to look at, you know, what else can i be? How can i be promoted? And that was always this foggy kind of answer this way. They know at the end of that thirty six months they’re going to sit down and they’re going to be able to review their last three years of work. I’m sorry. You got booted out of carnegie mellon. Pardon? I said, i’m sorry you got booted out of carnegie mellon. Yeah, well, they had crazy ideas. Okay? I’m so uncertain. That didn’t happen. So so is there not a performance evaluation? Interim during the thirty six months there is there’s still an annual praise a ll, um and and that’s kind of the more, um, qualitative way of looking at this. So each annual appraisal has five performance factors, and these performance factors are what we’ve identified to be an exceptional individual, major gift officer. They are perseverance, problem solving, functional technical skills, interpersonal communication and kind of most importantly, donor focus. So that it’s not just about the numbers and i will and i when i would like to say that individual major guest officers tend to be numbers driven people. And they like this career ladder because it’s very transparent and it’s very numbers driven. But to us, it’s not just about the numbers to us, it’s about ensuring that there still meeting the needs of the donor and these annual appraisals help us determine that there still totally donor-centric now i would think that even in these annual appraisal, though, you’re you’re evaluating the a reviewing with the fundraiser, their performance, how they’re doing time versus goal over there for their thirty six month period. Yep, you got it. Okay, so there’s that there’s that too. But but okay, but also call it a more qualitative assessment than than the thirty six months which would be that’s, that’s, pretty quantitative and numerical in the thirty six month review. Okay, well, the thirty six month review so here’s how it fits together, tony. All right, so at the end of the thirty six months so everybody every morning gets there gets their current running total on their screen so they know exactly where they stand. Oh, my, everyone. So at the end of the first year, they will get their current totals and there their average at the end of the second year, they’ll get their current total stand. How that averages so they’re always they always know how hard they have to be working to get where they need to get. Okay? And that becomes that’s important because when they sit down for there promotional review their very well aware of whether or not they’re going to make it or not, the others the numbers there, right? You have seen it and seen it every day during your appraisals, you cannot have needs improvement in any aspect. If you get it needs approval, you will not be promoted because exceptional employees don’t need to improve on one of these five aspects, right? And the biggest one that trips everybody up dysfunctional technical skills. Handup uh, one of the things that’s functional technical skill is putting accurate information and timely in a timely manner on what you’re doing. And so we just have some folks who simply can’t get around to port again trip reports, or they put in inaccurate trip reports, and so they get a needs improvement, and therefore they don’t get promoted because they’re not exception, i see, right? Even if, even if the numbers are there, even if the numbers you can’t need, you can’t need improvement in any of the five qualitative areas that liz mentioned. All right, so what’s the problem with the trip report? I mean, i that that used to be really valuable to me when i came back. Although, you know, if you get behind, then you’re really screwed because you have to forget and hopefully had decent notes. But but okay, we just have about two minutes before a break, but that that’s what? You’d be surprised. How long? Two minutes last. What? What trips people up with the use of inaccurate tripp reports? Like, how does that happen? One of the things that the one of the rules is that one of the only way you could get counted for a credit for a fund-raising visit one of the fifty six is you have to enter a next task. So a lot of folks, not a lot of folks, but there are those people who go to the visit and don’t think about what they’re going to do next. And so, over time, these people who are actually competent fundraisers, all right, they meet their basic numbers. They get a backlog of information that they owe us, and they never catch up. Yeah, i mean, they never catch up. Now, if you keeping up with your visits yeah. It’s it’s hard plus, you know, administrative tasks and things. I definitely if you get yeah. Like i said, if you get behind and you agree, right? Would you have just a minute? Liz, what happens if i come to you and tell you i got an offer at a competing? I got it. I got offered carnegie mellon. And not surprisingly, you know, they’re going to pay me one half times what i’m making at pitt. How does that fit into the career ladder? What kind of nice about the career ladder is that we can say to that employee? Well, this is where we value. This is where we see you. This is where our our standards are. And this is where we see you at pitt. So if you feel that that a move to carnegie mellon or to wherever is the appropriate step for you at this time, we’re sorry to see you go, but this is where we value you. Okay? This being your current salary, we’re not current. We’re not matching. We’re not matching competing offers. No. Right? Ok. All right. Sounds fair. We got more coming up. Of course, we’re going to talk a little about the ethics of of all this and maybe get some dahna reactions as well and talk about the infrastructure you gotta have a lot more coming up. Stay with us. In the meantime, i need to talk about pursuing because they’re a very smart company and, well, they sponsor non-profit radio. So there you go, that is de facto they’re smart company if you need more than that, they rely on data not unlike what we’re talking about with david liz that pit on dh technology metrics analysis, they’re not basing you’re fund-raising on tradition and popular wisdom that gets propagated at a fundraising conferences there’s too much of that around, you need to be smart and analytical and measure and then learn from what you’re measuring and that’s. What pursuing is about, um, for instance, the prospector platform that they have, which uses your data and, of course, supplements it with their algorithms to find your upgrade ready donors who should you be spending time talking to about upgrading from a thousand dollars a year to five thousand dollars a year, or half a million dollars a year, or half a million dollars last major gift to three quarters or a million dollar gift this time, whatever level you’re at, whatever size your shop, they’re going to apply prospector platform and its algorithms to your data and help you. Find the people target the people you should be spending time talking about with around upgrading their giving. It’s all at pursuant dot com i was at the non-profit technology conference back in march, interviewing speakers. I used all those interviews on non-profit radio you’ve been hearing for the past several months, we also shot video of those interviews and now it’s about time. Um, the videos are coming online, we’re going to start putting them on my youtube channel. The first four is up already, and it includes our contributor, amy sample ward, who is the ceo of non-profit technology network, which, by the way, is an excellent organization around using technology smartly in your non-profit and you know, her she’s on every month talking about social media so that’s, one of the four videos that’s up the the others are previewed on my video and of course, their links to all for anti seizure goes and there are more to come because i did twenty five interviews that ntcdinosaur year so there’s, a lot more video to come and that is tony’s take two for friday, twenty eighth of august thirty fourth show of this year. David liz, you’re still with us, right? Yes. Ok. You ok? Thank you. I know you were seven. Sam, let me know, but i just like to say a little affirmation. Um, let’s. See, i don’t know who wants to talk about this there’s? Not really too much. But i just wanted to make it clear when you talk about incentive pay, i think there’s a possibility that people might be thinking of the ethical considerations and constraints that the association of fund-raising professionals f has. And the relevant sort of passages, i guess are that members of a f p shell not accept compensation or enter into a contract that is based on a percentage of contributions. Nor shall members except finder’s for your contingent fees. Well, this clearly that’s that’s really not that’s, not what’s going on here, right? Right. That’s not what’s going on. And there is no relationship between the amount of money anybody raises and there increase in salary. So this is not a okay. You did really good this year. So here’s twenty thousand dollars based on one percent of your increases. This is an actual an actual increase in their salary, their annual salary level and hr work with us to ensure that that compensation levels stayed within the university’s ranges for jobs. That were classified like our jobs were classified and hr actually had no problem with this. We thought that would be a stumbling block, but they really didn’t see a problem with that. Because, you know, the alternative is that people walk in and say, i have an offer from cmu and it’s one and a half times what you’re paying me and what are you going to do and a most instant? Most places that i know and i’ve worked for a bunch of folks sit around a table and say, what do we want to keep that person or not? And, you know, that’s, basically what it’s, what it’s, what it’s, based on right, and they kick it up, and so that drives a long term that drives your cost over because it’s, not controllable, it’s, not predictable and it’s hard to set up long term budgets when you say fifteen percent of the people in our community and asked for more money. So ethic but we’re trying to do is say to somebody, if you, uh, you have a career here and there is a a future that you can envision based on your performance. All right. What has the fundraiser reaction been now since since january? And neither one of you wants to commented did well, i can let me talk about two examples without naming any of the school’s involved. We hired someone from an ivy league school, and she basically said that she had no idea how she would get promoted at the school. She was that she had never seen anything like the career ladder where it says, if you do these things every three years, we’re going to look at the possibility of promoting you within the major gift class, so that made us feel really good, you know that someone from an ivy league school thought this was great? Um and we, you know, recently hired someone for from a private school who also said the same thing now what’s nice about the career ladder is we were able to bring that person in at a four because she had ten years of experience as a major give fund-raising yes, so we’re not limited to just bringing people in in one. And when we sent the numbers over to h r, they said, well, that person fits exactly into who we defined as a four so we don’t have any problem with that compensation, and it actually worked out wonderfully dahna and most people when we come in and handed this booklet during the interview, they’re just amazed that that this thing has been thought out to the details been thought out, has anybody? Ah, i’m going to challenge us to see on the other side has anybody either applicant or employees. When it was implemented, i objected and on departed because of it, no one’s left yet, okay and apprehend list as you’re interviewing applicants, potential fundraisers, anybody said, i don’t think this works for me again. I mean, the young applicants are mother of their millennials or it’s a generational thing, you know, they want to know what their future is going to be like in an organization, and so most of them are very appreciative that we’ve kind of thought it through another existing staff. You know, the reaction has been very positive and i think it’s in large part because it’s so transparent, all right? And yes, it sze clear everyone everyone knows they’ve been knows that i think that he knows the state level of trust. That this engenders it is very powerful for, you know, a group of fundraisers and, uh, one more point on that is we’ve had three promotional reviews two uh, managed to make the jump to another level, and one did so that’s the way it goes, right? All right. And the one who didn’t well, let’s not say his or her name, but nobody listens to this show, so it really doesn’t matter. You don’t worry about that, but the okay, so for people who don’t make the so then they’re still retained a t organization. Yes, there’s capped and now we’re going in thirty six months will look att promoting you the possibility of promoting you again? No, actually that’s not the way it works, the way it works is what we do is we drop off the first year of their three year total and their scent in their third year again, so i don’t understand that what you mean? Ok, so the person who came up had worked here for three years and he didn’t make it. So what happens is we then say, we’re going to take all the Numbers from year 1 and drop him. And now you are in your new third year so you can come up again on your next anniversary. Oh, in one year. Okay, so i’m now right. I’ve now finished my second year and i’m entering my third because we drop the first one off. Yes. Okay. Well, that’s good. Presumably they’re getting better if you had a great, great first here and then you went down that’s not that doesn’t work to your advantage, but presumably fundraisers are improving. Not always, though you might have, you might have a spike one year and and not be able to match it in. You’re too, but that happens a lot. Yeah, on the other thing that’s important about all this is when you move from a one to two, all your previous numbers is zeroed out so you don’t carry those successes forward. In terms of the career ladder, you carry the prospects forward, but those numbers disappear. And so now you’re starting from ground zero again. Yeah, so, you know, it seems like, oh, wow, you know, all these people getting promoted over and over again, but in fact they won’t be because now they’ve gotta prove that they’re exceptional with the other level. And now they have to raise more money because we paid them or so they have to raise more money. And they have to do even better to be exceptional at that level. Yeah. Give us a sense of what the percentage increases from fromthe levels. Can you can you do that? Yeah, we could do that. It’s. I’m going to say it’s between ten and twenty percent. Okay, across all the levels, do you think? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, but that’s. Yeah, but here’s here’s the thing the university of pittsburgh has given out a raise of one point. Five percent for the last three years. Pary here. Right. So that’s, half percent over over three years. And you have the chance to go somewhere between ten and twenty. Yeah. Yeah. Ok. Yeah. That makes sense. It should. Your exceptional. You’re only being promoted your exceptional so exceptional peoples get the exceptional increases. Let’s. Move to the social infrastructure. Little record keeping well, ministerial stuff. What do you what do you need to put in place if you’re if you’re goingto take this on? Well, the first thing you need is some way to validate and verify all the information that goes into counting all these things you’re supposed to count, right? Almost everybody has that. What we have is we have two people who are assigned. Do as i say, validate all the information it goes in. So, you know, that becomes very important. The second thing is evaluation of gifts on some gifts. We have a sliding scale. Um, so certain request, depending on the age of the person, are not going to be valued at one hundred percent. Yes. Okay, uh, you know, so, you know, you want to be fair about these insurance policies that university doesn’t? Oh, are not valued at all our credit. It all right? Because that’s that’s rather krauz remainders knew all those things have have values based on, uh, you know, kind of the standard way of valuing things in the campaign. Right? In other words, all those numbers have to be validated. In other words, they’ve planned giving is getting screwed. That’s what’s happening because i could really i could get lots of bequests. But bequests are revocable and yeah, is there an age? At which a bequest would count at maybe not at not a future value. If the person reveals the amount. That’s just first of all, let’s. See if you think it’s i think it’s, i think it’s. So i have this thing here. Got sixty five. They get one hundred percent information. Okay, let’s, just let’s. Just passed it on age sixty five. Okay, so requests, if they’re over sixty five hundred, chancellor, if they’re under sixty five to get a five percent discount per year to the age fifty five. Okay. That’s, actually. Pretty generous, by the way, liz, that already? I think so. Liz had provided that about thirty seconds ago. But that’s all right, there. Um ah, yeah. That’s. Pretty generous. I was thinking more like seventy or seventy five. Wow. So full face value for aged sixty five. Ok. I think you bring pretty generous there. That’s. That’s. Very nice. Now that that presumes that, of course, the plan giving donors is willing to reveal the amount a lot. A lot would rather not. And it’s also put some pressure on the plan, giving officers to inquire right? And of course, they need what we call. Letter of testamentary intent. Yes, it’s got to be something in writing, okay? And there’s. So you’re not discounting the fact that this remains a revocable gift? No. Okay, but you are discounting that on the life insurance side. You said if it’s a life insurance beneficiary there’s no credit now the university’s nifty insurance is owned by the donor and doesn’t transfer the ownership to the university. Right? Right. That’s that’s the problem, right? The university’s just named as beneficiary, right? Okay. And that that doesn’t count. There’s no credit for that. That beneficiary designation. And i’ll tell you what you know, one of the things that scare one of these things came about is is, you know, meeting with someone who says, well, you know, i’m with this i’m with this corporation and i’m on the board, and so i’m going to put you in this a beneficial for the corporation, all right? On the key map, they’re not key, man. You know what they allow you to do that we’ve had those things just disappear when the corporation disappears. Most recently what? Hines when it was bought. Oh, heinz, of course. Very big in pittsburgh. Yeah, yeah. Okay, i could see that on the corporate policy said, okay, because i’m if i was one of your plan giving officers, i would i would question that life insurance beneficiary designation. If i got it, i got a letter that says, you’re a beneficiary of my life insurance policy and, of course, that share the beneficiary designation form. You don’t see that is equivalent teo to a request for a sixty five year old no, no, okay, go, we’ll take a break, not because of that, not because that the screaming with the break was coming anyway. You’re not cut off, don’t worry, stay with us, okay, okay. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger, do something that worked, and levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to, he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti m a r t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard, you can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Buy-in top trends sound advice. That’s tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Lest you thought that i forgot about live listener love, certainly i did not. We can’t can’t send live listen live by city and state today because they because we are he recorded where we can advance, but of course the love goes out to each live listener. I just don’t know exactly where you are. Podcast pleasantries those listening in the time shift over ten thousand of you, wherever you are, whatever you’re doing as you’re listening pleasantries out toe all the vast podcast listeners and those very important affiliate affections our am and fm stations across the country, there may be ten thousand affiliate listeners who knows? I don’t really know the stations don’t have the ppm data, so maybe there’s no, maybe there’s another ten thousand, who knows? But anyway, however many however few affiliate affections out to our am and fm station listeners. Liz let’s, let’s bring you back to the to the conversation. Is there anything more that you want to tell us about sort of infrastructure that it has to be in place to make this career ladder of success? Yeah, i think what’s important is is looking a little bit at your own. Analytics. Um, so we talked a little bit about, you know, pits Numbers 45 visits fund-raising hundred thousand six agreement sent etcetera those numbers were not thought off the top of our heads are plucked from the sky we used data from our own individual major gift officers going back far fifteen years individual gift officers that were that have a very exceptional record individual gift officers that didn’t and came up with the numbers looking at the data that way so i think it’s important to tell your listeners that if they’re thinking about using a career ladder as a model for individual gift officers that it’s important to kind of examine your organization and and and what kind of data makes sense for you and looking at your own analytic and what those analytics tell you all right dave, anything, anything more you want to contribute to the to the infrastructure question? Well, i think that when you said when you set this up, you have to have some set of folks who are worried about the impending review dates so that all the information is gathered together. All the information is is put together that you do this in sufficient time so that any increase in pay is cleared by hr and buy your vice chancellor. You know, these big organizations, uh, you know, the cat time seems to creep up on you will be sitting there, especially the first two we did after january, you know, the place was basically more or less closed christmas spray, and suddenly you’re coming up on this deadline that you have to meet, and you’ve got it, you’ve got to be ahead of that, so you have to have people care about it and our curating the information, and then you’ve got to get everything in line with all the people have to know you’re going to do this so that when the person comes in, you basically handed the letter says congratulations or we’re sorry that it didn’t work. This time, but yeah, i mean it’s, not the kind of it doesn’t run on its own. Okay? And that’s actually could play into the the hands of small and midsize shops advantageously because they don’t have different levels. They may not even have a person who manages hr. It might be the it might be the executive director taking care of hr so you don’t have to. You have to worry about getting that. I guess that administrative buy-in we’re talking about a leaner organization. So there may be advantages there, making it a little easier to create something like this. Yeah, definitely. I mean, once you decide once, once you decide would exceptional means, uh, then i think that’s the big that’s, the big leap. Okay, what does it mean to be exceptional? And when you determine what it means to be exceptional, what happened? Whether you have three, four, seven, eight however many criteria you have, our metrics you have, you know, it could be managed in any sign shop, but i think where becomes difficulty is where, uh, you don’t really identify what exceptional performances. And, of course, liz, you made the point that it should come from your own data, your own analytics, not from some benchmarking survey of what’s, typical in organizations of your size or something like that. That’s. Exactly right. I mean, you know, when we look at pitt, or if you look at harvard, those that data might look completely different. Um, and so, i think, it’s, beneficial tio to look within your own organisation, because you really can’t control where the numbers fall. When it’s your own data. Yeah, yeah. How about ah approval for this, david? Was this something that that needed to reach the board or no? Well, actually, this needed to work its way up through the chancellor’s office. Okay, jess, um, yeah. So we started hr and, uh uh, it was approved by hr after months and months of work. And then it went up to the chancellor’s chief of staff and then that’s at the level at which it was approved. I was thinking that for a smaller, much smaller organization or non-profit this might go to the board. All right? Yeah, i was wondering presentation aboard because it has somewhat of an effect on the budget. But it’s not it’s, not as overwhelming as you thinking. Here’s actually, advantage. If i have one minute, this is this is very interesting. You have actually, you have just about a minute. All right, i’m on it. So, uh, remember that we have these folks who are scattered all the way through the year, and so from a budget standpoint, the actual amount in that year that they’re going to make might be cut by fifty percent. In other words, the actual outlay. Because hyre of when? They started. So, you know, the way it works is that you actually have. We have the three year anniversary date for twelve people already calculate. So we can estimate based on the numbers that we have thus far, what the cost in the budget would be over the next three to four years, which is really from a budgeting standpoint. Really? Value? Yes, i see the value. That. Okay. All right. We have to leave that there. Liz. I don’t know if you are aware dave volunteered you oftheir to accept questions that people listeners might have. Are you willing? Are you, in fact ah, consenting to that? They’re more than welcome to e mail me at sea lives at pit p i t dot edu see liz at p i t dot edu. Yeah. All right. We have to leave it there, and i want to thank you both david and liz, thanks so much for sharing everything. Thank you, tony. Appreciate a real pleasure. Okay, buy-in, if you missed any part of today’s show, you will find it. Where else? Tony martignetti dot com. In fact, where in the world else would you go pursuant? Full service. Fund-raising you’ll raise airplane loads more money, and i’m not talking about those two seater piper cubs like you see in the local county airport. I’m talking dreamliners seven eighty sevens, like emirates flies with the studio apartments in first class that have showers and double beds filled with money. Pursuant dot com. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, janice taylor is no. Sam liebowitz is the line producer today who writes this copy. I wish i had an intern to blame. The show’s social media is by susan chavez, susan chavez, dot com and our music is by scott stein. Be with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. 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Nonprofit Radio, April 5, 2013: Talk Between The Generations

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

Tony’s Guests:

Phyllis Weiss Haserot
Phyllis Weiss Haserot
Phyllis Weiss Haserot: Talk Between The Generations

Phyllis Weiss Haserot, president of Practice Development Counsel, is a consultant and coach in cross generational communications. Think 60ish boss and 25ish employee. Or 70-year-old fundraiser and 30-year-old donor. Phyllis has strategies for understanding and working across the generations.

This segment with Phyllis has a survey. Please take a moment to answer two questions.

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Durney hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me last week. I would develop gastroenteritis if i heard that you had missed discover your brand. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark vertical line mcdowell your brand goes much deeper than logo and tagline what’s the process to discover your brand strategy once you’ve found it, how do you manage it? Nadia and i discussed and content marketing scott koegler was with me he’s, our tech contributor on each month and the editor of non-profit technology news. What content should you post for consumption? And where should you put it? How do you start your content? Marketing scott and i discussed this week talk between the generations. Phyllis weiss haserot president of practice development council, is a consultant and coach in cross generational communications. Think sixty is bosh sorry, think sixty issue boss and twenty five ish employees or seventy year old fundraiser and thirty year old donor phyllis has strategies for under standing and working across the generations midway into the show at roughly thirty two minutes into it tony’s take two. The transcript for my web chat with maria sample is posted on my block. I’ll say little about that, and also reminder of how important it is for you to be registered in each state where you solicit donations. My pleasure. Now to welcome phyllis weiss haserot she’s president of practice development council she champions cross generational conversation to help non-profits and for profits, solve intergenerational challenges that can hinder productivity, employee attraction, employee retention and succession planning. Her newest project is national cross generational conversation day. Phyllis weiss haserot welcome to the studio. Oh, thank you for inviting me. Delighted to be, have you? Thanks for sharing your expertise. Is today national cross generational conversation day? No, it’s, not also. Why we why we talk of why we’re here. We should be here. We should be celebrating the day. When is the day? Well, we should celebrate every day and i booked way. We should have a cross. A cross generational conversation every day. I’m really encourage off all kinds of organizations to foster that welfare people. One’s national day. What is this project of yours? Way? Haven’t designated yet or not yet. The national day will be in twenty fourteen were expecting to do some pilots and late fall okay, so i will let you know what you mean. The date national cross generational conversation day will be in late fall of next year. No late fall of twenty thirteen, where we’re planning to do that with some pilot cites nationally, will be a year off, okay, but are you are you willing to announce the day when you two so i can mark my calendar? I don’t have the day you don’t have a day yet, okay, you’re working on it, i gotta go. I am working on it. Well, i got two people working on, okay, well, i want to mark my calendar, and i will let you know there’s, an anniversary, absolutely. Let’s just set our terms straight. So we know what that everybody is thinking about the same brackets and generations. What are the generations on? Dh? Their approximate age is okay. We have for now that are in the workplace, mostly three. But but also the traditionalists were still there and we haven’t gotten to the youngest generation yet. So starting with the oldest, we have the traditionalists. And those are people who are generally over seventy. Now. Ah, boomers are bumping up on seven seventy and to, um, late forties. And then we have the generation x which is from late forties down to about thirty four. And then from something like, you know, seventeen or eighteen to thirty three or four is what we call either generation. Why? Or millennials those of the most popular names? There are many others as well. Okay, how do we how do we choose these cut off ages? You say roughly thirty three or thirty for between gen y and gen x how did those get selected? Who to door? Who are? Well, they’re you know, they’re they’re a number of people who have just studied what’s what’s going on and there’s you know, it’s, not absolute. Ah, there are many things that will determine what generation you’re in because it’s really about what influenced you in your formative years, and i when i’m saying the formative years, i’m talking about probably high school and college ages, not not toddlers that was too inert, too young, so people have common things that they, you know, tend to be influenced by wars, economy, music, political, social, economic, cultural and influences so that there is some common things that form patterns. Do we have a name for people who are, say seventeen and under today is any kind of, ah, moniker emerging for them? They’re a couple there’s a corporate naming opportunity way we call them the goldman sachs or the facebooks or something that could be a corporate naming opportunity? Maybe, but it could they might try all right, but they’re they’re they’re a couple of things, you know, those like x and why have have said, well, the next one could be z andi have about a prime something, right? You start at the beginning, but you wouldn’t want to be just a a prime or a double primer so well, a prime would do it. It doesn’t seem like a very what else? What else is emerging on? A couple of i don’t like kensi so that’s out. I actually, like see, i have my son’s name is ain’t we like these, but i wouldn’t use it for the thing that was missing. So a couple of people are using regeneration the re the regeneration re hyphen generation. Yeah. Okay. What? What does that refer to? It refers to all the kinds of things we have to change in the world. For one thing there, you know, there were a number of things that that’s defensible released. I’m just trying to get away, you know? Yeah, i’m not sure that that that’s what i would choose, but there are some people, is that one emerging that you like or you’re you’re still open minded or what? Oh, and i think we’re we’re looking so much on the whole digital native thing, you know? And if there’s some demarcation between the general room, millennials and the and the younger ones, and i think i think we have to watch what’s happening and another thing that i that i feel strongly about accepted it complicates things is that a generation of sixteen to twenty years, it’s much too large and the older and the younger ends were halfs of the various generations are very different from each other, and so, you know, i think you have to slice and dice a lot more war more than then have these, but it just confuses people and complicates things. I certainly when i entered ah, the boomers, so i guess we’re not late forties. I didn’t feel much kinship with those who are seventy or so now, now that i’m or in the middle or a little a little closer to the middle anyway, i feel a little more kinship on both sides, but i’m at fifty one, but yeah, i i didn’t i felt that when i was like i said, when i was forty, i didn’t feel much in association with seventies, but but we were those in their seventies, but we were we were in the same group and i tried to opt out, but there’s no, nobody sent me a check off, you know? And now he was checking on my direct now response pieces there’s never a check off for opting out and, you know, opting may be for the lower the gen x, you couldn’t. You can’t do that, right. Well, i’m cross generational, and i strongly identify with boomers x and y i am actually age, wass boomer. But, yeah, i do. I really, you know, i see the world the way younger people do, and i have lots of young friends and get a lot of energy out of that lab, very allowed to socialize outside my my boomer group, right, i hope. I hope you didn’t do no, yes, of course i did, but i can think thoughts to that gen xers and generalize, think its okay, i hope you do. You can go outside, okay, very good, all right. Let’s see, so we have just, like, a minute a half or so before break. So but well, twenty time you know you’re here for the for the hour. What are what are some of the factors? Well, you mentioned economic could be wars, the digital age. Are there other things that that divide the that that are different across the groups? Um, well, i think, you know, we put those are big categories, if you say cultural, political, social, economic, but there are lots of things within each of these categories that that will divide them. And and i think also that people are so much affected by their background, where they come from and whether it’s a conservative family, a religious family or, you know, other things in the life cycle may be important factor, and that could actually could trump certainly absolutely rule what what person rocket, right and personal style, i think, personal behavioral style and some of that you’re born with and some of it is just your, um, how you respond to your environment, but very often you’ll find the people of two very different ages might get along much better than people who were peers and age, just because they have a much more similar personal behavioral stuff. We’re going to go away for a couple minutes, and when we come back, phyllis weiss haserot stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing or speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’ve got lots of live listener love, olive et michigan, reston, virginia, brooklyn, new york welcome live listener love going out to all those cities and we’ve got more to come. We’ve got dublin and mullingar, ireland well, good welcome shaman china, guangzhou, china and chang ching china ni hao he’s happy to have all of you and there are many more listening. Before the show, i pulled listeners, and one of the questions i asked was do you directly supervise? Or are you directly supervised by someone who is twenty or more years from your age? So that’s roughly a generation, right twenty years is approximately b and fifty percent said yes. Fifty percent said no, so half half our listeners have to listeners who were polled our inn in a work relationship that’s at least one generation from them. And the second question i asked is if you answered yes. So now we just have half the half the group from the first question if you answered yes, do you feel communication between the two of you is often hampered by your age difference? And i said often hampered and ah, twenty five percent said yes. Fifty percent said sometimes, but not often, and the other twenty five percent said, no. So it’s, sort of a mix, right. Okay, um, we certainly wouldn’t want here. That was one hundred percent who were having trouble relating to each other often, right? It’s. Only twenty five percent. Yes, on behalf said sometimes, but not often, so maybe we can help. We can especially help those twenty five percent who are often having communication troubles. What are what are the what of the feelings that people are are experiencing when it’s ah, you know, maybe sixty year old fundraiser and a ah, a donor who’s a millennial or or gen x? What? What, what? What are the feelings across these across these people? Well, i think i think it really depends on the people and whether, you know, some of it might even be their own relationship with their own children or their parents, and if we’re looking at the boomers and generation, why, that those two generations are the closest parent child relationships that we’ve ever had in history? And so it is the debt dynamic can be very interesting about that. Ah, a lot of the younger people really have a good warm feeling for older people because they have those good relationships, but it may be and, you know, even if we’re talking about donors and fundraisers, ah lot of the younger people have different ideas about philanthropy, then then the older generations do the kind of things that they want to give to how they want to do it, wanting to be more hands on involved, not just writing checks or you know, doing it electronically, but, you know, knowing getting to know, interact in some way with the people that they are donating to, and i think that’s something that we see really growing, i’m not an expert in the philanthropy area, particularly although i have cause i, you know, so fascinated by everything generational i’ve done that, and i’ve done some speaking to corporate philanthropy people too, and do follow that you have, um, for instance, a lot of the silicon valley people who have made a lot of money now and there are are getting born in their forties, yeah, and they they’re doing their philanthropy in different ways than the generation older than you. So i guess we have to generalize to some extent we’re gonna be able to have the conversation is talking generalizations. And there a cz you identified there are factors that transcend these generalizations. Individual people, your relationships with family, you’re your own personal style. Okay, so but we have to generalize in that in that situation where it’s ah, a fundraiser who’s, you know, could be thirty years older than the then the donor is there. Is there insecurity with typically from the the fundraiser is feeling that here she is talking to somebody so much younger, and they and that younger person really has the power in this relationship. Is there the donor there? The one with the money is there in security? Feelings are, i suppose it could be, but not nearly as much as it probably is when it’s the other way around, when the younger person is asking for money from an older person or the same thing in a in a work situation, when you have a new, older boss, and i mean a younger bus and an older worker reporting to him. Okay, so let’s, look at that, then. So the older, older worker, younger boss, what the one of the feelings are, how do we work with that team to transcend those feelings? Okay. It may be that the younger boss, especially if they have no come newly to that position, maybe feeling, ah, you know, uncertain about how to how to do it and how do you manage other people and even their own age? That’s another, another issue of managing your your friends that you were, you know, just coworkers with with but with older, with other people, you know, sometimes the fear that the other person knows so much more and you knows, maybe going to be trying to take over for them and what they’re doing, like some intimidation it it could be, yeah, it could be intimidated and, you know, and it may be that that there’s absolutely no reason for that it doesn’t mean that the older person really feels that way, right? But the younger person lives might might feel based on these generalizations and stereotypes, right mean, isn’t well, not only stereotypes, but, you know, if you haven’t been doing something for a long time and somebody else has ah, may feel well, you know, they they think they know so much more so why should they listen to me? Am i going to be looked? At enough as an authority figure so that that kind of thing can happen. And i think that what we need to remember is that people have to have respect for each other and to respect experience and not think, oh, well, you’ve always done it this way, but i have a better way or i have done it, you know, and it’s been proven to work for twenty years. So why you trying to get me to do something in in a different way just to say ok? You know it’s not about you, it’s, about whether our common goals here, you know, we have some objective we’re trying to read which we’re trying to do something for a client or for the organisation or trying to serve, solve world problems and it’s not about, you know my way or your way or the highway it’s how can we best work together? How can we take what i know and do really well and what you know and you do really well and figure out what the role should be based on our skills, our knowledge, our interpersonal relationships with people, the contacts we have, whatever it is, what? We need here. And how are we going to make this work? Right? And how can we start to how can we start this conversation across these two people if there is a little tension, a little intimidation, little fear, how do you how does your work work with a team like that? Well, you know, i think facilitating dialogues within work teams, people who have to work together, um, is really something that’s so important and not being done enough, and it should be encouraged by the employers and, you know, sometimes you have to bring in coaches, and it could be i’m not just saying from somebody from the outside, but it could be somebody within the organization. I i think that sometimes with mentors and mentoring circles you can have or this employee resource groups that are that set up around some kind of affinity s o that you see a lot of those for for gender, and you see them for lbgt now you see it for racial, ethnic and, you know, that kind of thing, and we’re starting to see some of them around generational issues, too. And so if you, you know, you have these discussions, you know, whether they’re internally were, you know, coming from the outside, getting people in a non threatening way to start surfacing, how they, how they feel, what you know, what they see is their obstacles. What i’ve read about the millennials is that they like to be like to have their voices heard absolutely, i don’t know so much that they need to see that what they’re recommending, you know, he’s always carried out i mean, i don’t read that there that’s selfish, but they would liketo have input they liketo be know that they’re being heard absolutely, you know, and i think from the older and two when they’re no longer running things, they also want have have a voice, but this opportunity for everybody to have a voice is really important and for the younger ones and one of the one of my favorite names for a generation wireframe millennials, it’s generation, why? W h y for all the questions that they’re always asking and you know when when managers have come to me with, you know, what do i do about this? I mean, sometimes you know either sometimes it’s annoying, but even when it is a nice child. Five year olds kinds of why? Why is the sky blue? Why are we doing it this way? Yeah, and and we taught our kids to ask questions it’s a good thing, but sometimes it’s inconvenient, you know, you’re running off to a meeting to the bathroom, whatever, whatever it is, and there are people who actually managers sometimes feel guilty about it because they can’t on the spot. It’s fun to feel like a prop that question, i can’t answer all the questions that are being thrown at them, right? Okay, so so what one thing that i’ve suggested? Because especially the younger people like working in groups is, you know, why don’t you schedule every couple of weeks a session where anybody can come and ask their questions and get answers to them? And then people can hear what other people are asking that can learn from that they all have their opportunity for for their voice, their self expression, whatever, whatever it is, and again, they don’t expect to get everything that they’re asking for, but also they want to know what’s going on that has an impact on me and i think anybody in or place really wants to know that the more they’re more vociferous about asking exactly not keeping it inside, right? But the more transparency there is, i believe it’s so usually better for everybody. Okay, let me send some live listener love. Tio medford, new york. Middleboro, massachusetts. Bangor, maine live listener love bangor. I love bangor. Yeah. That’s. When? When? When i was an urban planner. And my first incarnation. And that was a client that remained was in urban. That was an urban durban downtown bangor. Okay, i hope it’s benefited from your work. Can you remember something? You wantto somebody’s listening from bangor? What do you what did you do? You put it. Build a park oversea a parka monument. What? What? What can you point to where we were doing? We were doing studies on downtown commercial revitalisation. And what kind of businesses should come in and and attract them? And it really was a while ago. It was like i have no idea what bangor is like. Not sure, but it was a nice being shoretz a thriving small town. Lovely. Because because of your work there, taiwan taipei tai pei has checked in ni hao. Also none. Ching china was not with us before, but none. Ching is now with us. Ni hao out to you also. We have, ah, few more way have several minutes before break, so we’re talking about openness, transparency you want these feelings to be shared in the workplace, but typically we’re not especially, i’d say boomers in traditionalists. We’re not really accustomed to sharing feelings in the workplace. So much is that is that difficult toe overcome their? They’re traditional feelings about about sharing feelings in the workplace? Yeah, i think that you probably have a better chance with the boomers and, you know, especially some of them you don’t remember when boomers came into the workplace, they were going to change the world. No, especially the older hand. I’m on the young side of rumors, so well, i was on the young side, but i’m still a little on the younger younger, so i don’t remember that so and they’re still in trouble and they were going they were going to change things. Yeah, okay, you know, and and were kissed of all kinds of things. And you know what? What are they growing? Long hair? And what is this about woodstock and and the beatles and civil rights, you know, against the vietnam war, all of those kinds of things very politically involved. Ah, so and i think that what we’re seeing also with some of them who were thinking, what am i going to do? And i either voluntarily or involuntarily leave what i’m what i’m doing now, our thinking back to the three kinds of things that they wish they had gotten an opportunity to do when they were younger, but they were encouraged by their parents who came from a much more insecure, you know, depression area, a year era. Ah, to do something that was very respectable, that they thought was a secure job, like, you know, be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer or something like that nothing is secure anymore, and so that, you know, thinking that there’s still, you know, deep down somewhere, things that they would like to do that that would be helpful to the problems we have in the world, they could join the occupy movement on dh, some of it but but actually occupies similar really start analogous toe the the counter culture and political ah, not really revolution but turmoil and and that we saw in the sixties when the boomers were were of that a war. Of the you know, now what’s now the millennial age, so because i’m trying to compare the with the boomers were for in opposite were opposing politically and socially with what occupy that’s true accepted it and and yeah, it’s very similar, but the younger generations now have a different way of going about most of them would not be involved in protests out on the streets. Ah, they they would go about it in a different way. They tend to their political involvement tends to be different, but but they’re still very, you know, interested in doing something about cleaning up the environment. That’s a big one there, you know, some other issues just took a different form of unoccupied was more of a one of a cohesive group in a lot of different cities than than my at least my sense of what was happening in the sixties, which was much more scattered, and there wasn’t really there wasn’t really even a name to it. Now we have occupy and the and you know, you know, the tagline, the other ninety nine percent, so they even branded themselves sort of all right, we could take take another break. When we come back, tony’s take two. And then we’ll continue the conversation about cross generational conversations with phyllis weiss haserot stay with us. Co-branding think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz waiting to get in. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medication? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight, one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz dahna i’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rotter with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Durney what a lovely chorus that was love that time for tony’s take to roughly thirty two minutes into the hour late last month, maria simple and i hosted a live chat for the foundation center on prospect research, and that was called what’s in your donordigital see, eh? The transcript of that chat is on my block. So if you are interested in that, the block is that tony martignetti dot com and also wantto just take a moment to remind you of the importance of charity registration. It’s ah it’s, part of the practice that i do aside from the plant e-giving fund-raising consulting because not complying with the state laws in every state where you solicit donations can be a little embarrassing. I remember that chris christie was embarrassed because he created a sandy relief fund, and unfortunately, the fund was not in compliance with state laws. They’re in new jersey that sell embarrassing. Um, mary j blige was embarrassed. Sometimes i call him mary j bilge, but but i do like like most of her music, so i don’t usually call her build, but mary j blige, she has a charity and was not it was not. In compliance with st charity registration laws and that she was a little embarrassed. But lest you think that it’s only for the famous and the notable, a small connecticut police charity was embarrassed when the leader was actually find twenty two thousand dollars for failure to comply with these these laws, and it was a personal fine that was not for the charity that was for the executive director on and i’ve got a little more motivation around charity registration on my block at tony martignetti dot com. If you go there and just search the phrase charity registration, you’ll find one of the posts called charity registration matters and that one details a couple of other episodes of charity registration embarrassment that you want to avoid. And that is tony’s take two for friday, the fifth of april, the fourteenth show of this year. Let me send some more live listener love absecon, new jersey see ya, but i know everybody pronounces it abso khan, but i know that it’s absecon because i have a deep love for belmar, new jersey, which is not too far away. They’re not in the same exact vicinity, but there generally related. And, ah, i still go to belmar every summer, and i hope that bill maher and absecon have well will have recovered from the devastation of sandy. Bye bye the summertime so absecon good good wishes to you and new bern, north carolina live listener love also seoul, korea well, i love the asian thie asian listeners it just incredible. So far, it’s been taiwan, china now seoul, seoul, south korea got to send you an io haserot and we’re also thinking of you soul for some for attention very tense time we’ve seen these episodes before. I certainly don’t know anything about no very little. Well, let’s say nothing about the politics of the peninsula, but i don’t know anything more than i’m reading on our thoughts are definitely with you in in seoul and all of south korea continuing our conversation with phyllis weiss haserot she’s, the president of practice development council, which you will find at p d council dot com that’s ah, if you were going to do that fanatically, radically, that would be papa delta candy counsel. And, of course, counsel is c e o u n c l e dot com oh, and that’s where she’s the president and you can learn more about phyllis is practice there on if you want to google her her last name spelled h e a s e r o t haserot on dh thank you for pronouncing it right. You’re doesn’t just well, i suffered. What do you think i suffer with the name martignetti martin? Ellie. I find that the tease get transformed to elza latto. I get a lot of martinelli’s or martinelli martignetti martignetti they transposed the g in the end, i get o r martin getty there’s the transposition martin getti. So i have ah, have a deep and abiding respect for proper name pronunciation. Was it again? Has a rot? No, no, i know that’s not, uh, okay, so childish, so puerile, like, like i’m you know, i’m a gen y minus minus ten years. It’s terrible let’s talk about some of the some of the other advice that you might have. You know, if you’re consulting around opening up these conversations, you know, certainly talked about facilitating dialogue and having meetings where people, younger people can ask the questions what the strategies have you got for non-profits? It may be struggling. Around these issues. Well, i think that if you have, if you have something that i have met mentioned to you and we’ve talked before, who is about setting up mentoring circles, okay, i want you to describe what mentoring circles are, i think that the first phase of mentoring that we’ve seen is older people mentoring younger word that’s the typical right and done the reciprocal well, let’s say reverse mentoring on which, you know, got some attention because thie younger people tend to be better about technology than the older ones, suggesting that someone is twenty four years old has something to teach me. Is that your is that what you’re suggesting? I think less than would have been true ten years ago? I think that most of the boomers are techno tech dahna logically competent enough to do for most of the things that they need to dio, whereas, you know, you used to have people who had their secretaries assistants doing their email for them. You know which an email it’s really easy, i never understood well, why that was a difficult thing, but, buddy, i think we’re we’re coming together much more, even though you were not born with the computer and all of those things, and, you know, you can imagine a world without them. Yes, i remember, but it was yeah, i think the first thing people thought about was the tech, the gap in technology from one generation to another. And so but but there were other things as well, that the different generations could learn from each other, and the younger generations can teach older generations. I i very often ask i have ah linked in group called cross generational conversation and that’s, we want to do the things i’ve asked, and i ask when i’m doing workshops, what can you personally it’s a younger person? Ah, what do you have to offer as a mentor to an older person? And i think, you know, they need to it’s important, that they think about this for their own confidence as well, because a lot of times, people are reluctant to ask someone that they would like to mentor them because they don’t know, you know, what can they give in exchange? I want to be a taker, right? And, you know, maybe maybe that person wouldn’t particularly be interested, they’re probably pretty busy, but if they have something to gain from mentoring you, then they’re going to be much more apt to say, oh, yeah, you know, i’d love to help you. Well, let me ask you what kinds of things did you see? What kind of response did you see that young people felt they could contribute to an older mentor? You know, sometimes it could be the contacts they have, it could be the way you know, what they observe in the world. Ah, you know, even what? What’s, you know, what’s new and coming up in the market place, you know, what kind of products do you think? What kind of needs air people going tohave that that we weren’t noticing before? So they have, ah, you know, a different sense of that. They talk to different people, they might watch and and, you know, use different media, they’re getting different messages, they’re interacting with people in a different way. And so, you know, anybody who has a business or is trying to interact or rays, or whatever it might be, can get a lot of out of their perspective out of a younger person’s perspective. So you would suggest if someone seeking if someone younger is seeking a mentor, that they explain what value they could bring to the absence. So okay, let’s say, i think the first thing you want to do is whether you’re networking or you’re looking for a mentor or you’re trying to get a client. The first thing you want to do is try to offer something before you’re asking for something. You know, reciprocity is a very big thing about, you know, as as an influence principle, and if somebody gained something from you, they’re usually going toe want to as soon as they can give back, i think most people wanted yeah, i mean, we don’t want to be owing people something for one thing, and you know it and just to be nice still don’t want to do that too, but getting getting back to the mentoring. So so so? So first you have it going one way from older, younger, then you have going the opposite direction as well. Um, reciprocally, your mutually mentoring, but people are so busy now, and a lot of mentoring relationships really fail or wither away because that one person who’s supposed to be mentoring can’t find the time and has other things that might be high priority, and if you put together a circle of people of different generations, different skills experiences and all of that who can draw on each other and people can still pair off went one. But you have a whole lot of people to draw on a whole lot of people to give to, because even if you do ah, you’re lucky enough to get the time of one particular person, no one person can give all the advice that any other one person may need. I mean, everyone does not have exactly the same needs the same life that’s always been my reluctance when people ask if all mentor them. Ah it’s, i’m not sure that i can provide everything that they they’re in need of. Saand i can’t i’m certain i can so that’s always been my reluctant, so you know, sort of qualifying sale, do as much as i can for you, but with a circle you have the expertise of lots of obviously lots of people to drop and their time and so would the circle so you could set up a mentoring. Circle in a workplace you certainly can meets what? Once once a month. The way? Well, i think i went a week it’s probably more time than anyone’s going to devote to it. But if you could do it once a month that that would be very good, or even if it was every couple of months. But other people got together in the interim. A cz they needed or wanted smaller groups. Yeah. Okay. And you’ve seen these mentoring circles work? I have i think again, people have to be very committed to doing doing, you know, you have to show up. You can’t just say the first time, okay? I’m going to be there and and you don’t on a regular basis because not only what should be giving, but you won’t be getting either. Yeah. Okay. Cool mentoring circles. Um, you talked about the, uh, life cycle of ah of a person. Um, what is there? Is there? What are we have defined stages of of our lives? Is that what you meant? Um, well, yes, there are that, but a person can be ah, undergoing or experiencing the same sorts of things at a somebody very different age on the easiest example is, you know, medicamentos years, i’ll get right, okay, dumb it down. Yeah, is men can have children and a much older age than women can. So if you have, ah, father with young children in their sixties that may be experiencing and having the same concerns is somebody who’s in their thirties or twenty or twenty or twenty? If yeah, if people in their twenties air getting around to having children not as much as it used to be, but yeah, right, okay, we’re going to take another little break, and when we come back, we’ll continue. We’re going talk about veterans to you, have some special advice, can be very, very important subject, because, of course, we don’t we don’t deal with trivia here on tony martignetti non-profit rated that goes without saying, phyllis, come on, okay, and let’s, take this break in. Phyllis stays with us, and you should do. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Durney welcome back, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, continuing with the live listener love leave massachusetts, minneapolis, minnesota and columbus, ohio. Columbus, ohio. That’s, the appreciate the capital of ohio. I think i believe that’s, capital city live with her love to all those massachusetts, minnesota and ohio. Thailand. I’ve been to thailand. I was in bangkok and i was in pata also thailand, tokyo, japan also japan, konnichi wa. And why are you? You know, we have all these asian listeners taiwan, china, japan, thailand. Now, why are you listening at att one? Almost two o’clock in the morning. It’s oh, it’s. Remarkable. I don’t know why you’re you’re night owls or but consistently, you guys are up late on. Ah, well, this is friday night. Maybe that’s. The reason, but love to have you have you? Have you all, um, veterans? Phyllis, you have some special advice around generational cross generational conversations for for vets. What the special issues first to prevent. Well, first of all, we have ah, we’ve been at war for so long. We have a whole lot of people in their twenties and thirties who are coming back and either wanting to go to school, be educated um, her to teach or to get jobs. And if you think about it, the experience of somebody in their twenties who has been in iraq or afghanistan, or something like that has to be very, very different from the people that you see on the college campuses or, you know, at at at work, if they might have been on the thirty eighth parallel in the korean peninsula, they could have twenty eight, thirty, thirty thousand troops there, right? Right? Well, many, many places, but especially when you, you know, in danger of being fired out every day and their training is they s so much more leadership training, then younger people get now and that thie stress the and, you know, and i’m talking about now, even for people who don’t have post traumatic stress and all of those kinds of things, but that that they’re they’re pretty healthy physically and mentally, even so that you know, that that would put other layers i know on all of this, but they they’re also used to so much more structure if you think about it now, young people tend to and especially you. Know if you’re in school, you go to class when you want you dress the way you want, you don’t have very strict ways of behaving and those expectations, and so i think that the veterans arm or, you know, really more like the older generations because they’ve come, they have more structured workplaces and have been, you know, enough experience, so the lot of them have been leaders and think in that way, whereas the, you know, generalized seems to need a lot of guidance and wants to know what air their expectations, where have you been, the military there very quickly, there’s the court clear, very clear? So is so they’re really not like piers in in many ways. And so is there a problem of perception that people who are older tendo lump them as being the same as people that are in their same age group? And so that those of us who are older or not fully appreciating the differences that that air across vets and non vets, i think that’s very possible, i think that’s very possible on dh way just, you know, these people have been serving our country we need to get some jobs we have dealt with, um, you know, get educated, and so often they will look to people who have had similar experiences. So if there are older veterans in your in your work place, they can be good mentors or help them get up to see speed to how things are ah, loosen up. I mean, because if you’re used to a very rigid structure and suddenly you’re in a different environment, you have to loosen up more, uh, forming these affinity groups so that they are, you know, the veterans feel like they’re not, you know, standing out on different from everybody else around them who is their age can be very helpful. They just really have to think through what it is they’re looking for, what, what their needs are. A lot of them have families more than some of the younger people, particularly in school, and so they may have totally different needs. I want i want to close with what it is that you love about the work that you’re doing. Why do you love this? What moves you about this? I i just find differences fascinating. For one thing, i get a lot. Of energy from the younger people as well as people who are older as well. I saw something just yeah, totally, totally, i mean, i think that’s, why it’s hard to you know, we’re thinking about whether the boomer is going to do they’re not going to retire for most of them and, you know, not thinking even if money was not an issue of, you know, spending their days playing golf and lying on the beach and doing the traditional things that people thought about wanting to dio so what can i do next? I i appreciate the differences, and the other thing is that i just think that it is so important that we get all the generations talking together, working together for what they do in the workplace and solving the world’s problems that we have instead of pointing fingers at each other and say, we look at the world that you’re, you know, leaving to us. Duitz phyllis weiss haserot is president of practice development council at p d council dot com. Phyllis, thanks so much for sharing your wisdom around my absolute pleasure. I’ve had a lot of fun. I’m glad most guests do some are tortured, but not not many, and i’m glad that you’re not among the tortured, and there was no jargon jail there was all such a simple conversation, no jargon, jail love that absolutely, i don’t jarden next week followship not fellowship follow-up ship alison fine is co author with beth cantor of the networked non-profit and alison has been thinking lately about opening organizational culture to allow non-profits to be more reactive to the interests and motivations of their followers while still keeping goals in sight, and alison is going to share her thoughts next week. Also, jean takagi are regular legal contributor returns. We’re all over the web. You can’t make a click without dahna testes piela still trying to say, smacking your head hard into tony martignetti non-profit radio. What i what i actually need to learn is how to say put me on your do not call list in spanish. I’ve been getting telemarketing calls in spanish and i say, put me on your do not call list and they say, no, no, no, auntie ende they don’t understand, so they’re doing an end run around the federal do not call list, so if someone could explain to me how to say put me on your do not call list in spanish. I would be grateful. Any case we’re all over social media and youtube is but one example. My channel, their israel tony martignetti is over ninety videos i’ve got craig newmark, the found of craigslist is on there with me. Seth godin is there. Rachel sklar are from huffington post is there charles rich, the founder of donors, choose dot org’s where teachers post there, their needs and donors give to those needs he’s i’ve interviewed him so that all those people and lots of other videos at riel tony martignetti dot com also some stand up comedy is there. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz was not our line producer today. Janice taylor was the line producer today. And this shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media. The remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules will be going remote next time we’ll be in june at fund-raising day here in new york city. I hope you’ll be with me next friday one to two p m eastern at talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com no dahna. Hyre i don’t think they’re too good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get me to thinking. Hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time. Join me, larry shop a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Dot com. Hyre

Nonprofit Radio, April 13, 2012: Smart Interviewing Makes Great Hiring & Relationship Mapping

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

Listen live or archive:

My Guests:

Sherryl Nufer

Sherryl Nufer: Smart Interviewing Makes Great Hiring

Sherryl Nufer, a founding partner in Pareto Consulting, explains why Behavioral Interviewing is superior to traditional methods and how any size nonprofit can get better hires through more sophisticated interviewing, whether you hire once a year or many times a month.

 
 

Maria Semple

Maria Semple: Relationship Mapping

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, is our regular prospect research contributor. This month Maria helps you mine your data with tools that reveal relationships you didn’t know existed among your donors. It’s much more than just a list of friends in a pull down menu. As always, she shares valuable resources, many of them free.

Please take a moment to take the survey for this week’s show with Sherryl and Maria!

You’ll find it below. If you could also share it with other nonprofit professionals, I would appreciate it. The more people who take it, the better the results and the better the show! Thank you!


Create your free online surveys with SurveyMonkey, the world’s leading questionnaire tool.

Here is a link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XXWN8MZ


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Here is the link to the show recording: 087: Smart Interviewing Makes Great Hiring and Relationship Mapping.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and it’s friday, april thirteenth, twenty twelve i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be devastated if i learned that you had missed campaign feasibility agility, why is a feasibility study important before you embark on a fundraising campaign? What do you learn from a well crafted study who should be interviewed and who should do the interviewing? Eugenia cologne of cologne and associates sorted that out for you, and i had creating a culture of philanthropy. Laura goodwin, vice president of the osborn group, had ideas about focusing on your donor’s, collaborating programming, board expectations and responsibilities and leadership all to help you increase your fund-raising revenue this week. Smart interviewing makes great hiring cheryl nufer, a founding partner in peredo consulting, explains why behavioral interviewing is superior to traditional methods and how any size non-profit khun get better hires through more sophisticated interviewing? This applies whether you’re hiring once a year or several times a month relationship mapping maria simple, the prospect finder is our regular prospect research contributor this month maria helps you mine your data with tools that reveal relationships you didn’t know existed among your donors, it’s, much more than just a list of friends in the pull down menu. As always, maria’s got valuable, resource is, and a lot of them are free between the guests. Tony’s take to my block this week, i have a favor to ask, and i’ll ask you when the time comes around, which is about thirty two minutes into the hour. Use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation through twitter. Welcome to the people from small non-profit chat who i was just with on twitter. I hope some of you were joining us. Use that hashtag non-profit radio right now. We take a break when we returned. It’s smart interviewing makes great hiring, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz lorts durney are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com hello and welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. My guest now is cheryl nufer cheryl is a founding partner of peredo consulting, providing small to medium sized organizations with business tools that are often available only the large for-profit corporations sounds like she’s sort of stole the tagline for this show. She’s, a strategy and organization development consultant with more than thirty years of experience, and i’m pleased that her expertise brings her on cheryl nufer welcome to be here, it’s a pleasure to have you thanks what’s wrong with traditional interviewing. Cheryl well, we have a top ten list of what goes wrong in interviews, but really, they’re too big and the first one is that it’s? Hard to believe, but a lot of interviewers don’t really know what they’re looking for in a candidate, and so they just figured that the more people they interview, the better their odds it’s kind of like vegas, and they don’t know when they see it. The second big problem is that they ask risky question when i say questions, yeah, what is that? Yeah, i don’t mean just the way i talk typically think about what we call illegal questions is that a problem, but risky questions, questions that, uh, a candidate can prep for that, they can anticipate that they can prepare a candid answer for which made or may not be the truth. So the data on which to base your hiring decision is a lot. So those sounds like questions like what’s your strengths and your strengths and weaknesses, like those types of questions are risky that’s exactly right? Because people can anticipate them. Yeah, the common ones, we here are what you just said there, but it’s also questions like, what would you do in a situation? For example, if you were faced with an angry donorsearch or this job is going to require a lot of long hours? Will that be a problem for you? Or my favorite is tell me about yourself. Why should i? And these are risky because they’re predictable is mentioned. Secondly, they solicit the candidates opinions and, you know, i don’t want to sound harsh, but the candidate doesn’t know a lot about what’s required for success in the job interviewer does interviewers opinion it’s most important and then last so you can say that. Not sound harsh if i say it, it sounds harsh coming from you. It just sounds very matter of fact unprofessional. And final thing is that they also asked the candidate to hypothesize, so if you ask, you know, what would you do in a particular situation? They can tell you just about anything now? Is that what they would do if they were faced with that situation, your organization, they may or may not. So again, all of these risky it’s interesting that you call very typical questions risky, but i understand. I understand why. Yeah, well, it’s all about making it’s all about collecting data to make a decision to predict how someone is going to perform in your organization and the risky or your database to risk your your hyre decisions. All right, that’s. So that’s the interviewing that we’re all most familiar with, we either do it or we’ve been through it, or or both. Why don’t you just start of acquaintance with behavioral interviewing? Okay, well, behavioral interviewing is not just about the interview. It’s really a business process, just like your financial processes review hr processes and it has a set of steps and so it starts off with identifying and defining the skills for success, and then you create a line of questioning that’s based on those skills, you put that in an interview guide, follow the guide after you interview you right candidate based on the data you collected and then all of the interviewers get together and share their examples, make a hyre or no hyre decision. So, first of all, it’s a repeatable process um, in terms of knowing what you’re looking for, i think that’s a really big difference, what we talk about is looking for a balance skills well, and what we’re looking for doesn’t that come from the job description? Well, not necessarily that’s a good question, because a lot of organizations job description are nothing more than a list of responsibilities that they will fulfill once they’re hired, but what i’m talking about is a list of skills that are required to be successful in executing those responsibilities. And so we look at those in terms of technical skills, which are really job specific and things maybe, like marketing most iranians fund-raising sales and then another set of skills that we call professional skills you might. Also call the sauce skills and these cross jobs and these air things, like planning and team work and initiatives and judgment, integrity. Those kinds of things way have a saying that a lot of organizations hyre on technical gilles. When they have to fire someone. Cheryl, we have to take a break. When we come back. We’ll continue this and start exploring why behavioral interviewing is better than what we’re all accustomed to. Please hope everybody stays with us. We’re talking smart interviewing makes great hiring e-giving connecting dick tooting, getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network to get anything. E-giving good. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that calm mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr robert panna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Welcome back with my guests, cheryl nufer of peredo consulting, you’ll find peredo consulting at parade o p r e t o hyphen h y p h e n but don’t spell hyphen just put a hyphen in consulting peredo hyphen consulting dot com. Cheryl, why is this method behavioral interviewing superior to what we’re all accustomed to? Well, that has to do a lot with the questions that you ask, i said before the other questions or risky behavioral questions are based on principle that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, so if we can figure out in an interview how a person behaves in the recent past in situations that are similar to what they face in our job, then we have a pretty good idea how well behaved if we hire them. So this is the opposite of stock investing investment advisors who will say past results or no indication of future returns, right? But past behaviour is predictor of future behavior. Yeah, because we are creatures of habit. So there’s a great formula for creating a behavioral question that your listeners could start using right away. So what you do is you start with phrase something like give me an example of the time in the past, or maybe describe the past situation, and then what you do is you go back to those skillsets i was talking about a minute ago there that are important for success, and you plug in burbage that describes the skills so let’s say we were talking about initiative, then we’d say something like, give me an example of the time in the past when you went above and beyond job requirement for a time in the past when you anticipated a potential problem and you made contingency plans. So what you do is always in behavioral interview issues asked what people did in the past versus what they would do in the future, which is a hypothetical. So this sounds harder to fake, but i have to tell the whole story. Now you have to tell a whole story, and it is very difficult to fake because they’re hard to anticipate, and a good interviewer should be asking specific follow-up questions? I mean it’s, easy to just ask the behavioral questions, but it’s an interview are you start listening for what you want you want a real situation. You want to understand what they said or did in that situation and you want to know what happened, what kind of results this is scaring the heck out of me if i’m in it, i’m nervous that’s a good thing i have my own business, so i’ve never run into this well. So what if i don’t have a story about initiative? Alright, i’m under pressure. I can’t i can’t think of one well, that’s a common thing and our bullets, the interviewer is to bring out the best in the candidate, so what we can do is that’s good that’s that’s reassuring it too, because when you’re comfortable, you’re going to share more information with me, so i would i want you with questions such as you know what about in this specific job? Or i may rephrase the question where someone doesn’t have work experience. I might ask them to think about a project that they did in college or maybe a summer job so anything that i can do or i can say, you know, we can come back to that question and give you a few minutes to think about it if you’d like, there are a lot of ways to handle that it’s not uncommon for someone to freeze up. Okay, i pulled listeners before the show. One of the questions i asked is, do you feel you’re hiring? Process is efficient and you’re hiring the right candidate, and about seventy one percent said yes and about twenty nine percent i said no, so we want to help the other third, but that two thirds may not be may not be as efficient and hiring savvy as as they think. That’s, right, that’s recorders almost sorry even if they have a good track record of getting good can bring along good talent beauty of behavioral approach is that up? You don’t necessarily have to interview a lot of candidates and pick the best of the lot if you know what you’re looking for and you have a good screening process and you interview the candidates and their experiences match the criteria for success. Technically, you could hire the first candidate you interview, which reduces your cycle time, and it also keeps you from potentially losing a good candidate because you’re hiring cycle is too long. Have you seen organizations do that either? For-profit or non-profit don’t they don’t they typically say, well, she was very good, but maybe we’ll find somebody better. Absolutely, and that positing are not confident in their process. There’s something in there god says, you know, i’m not confident in the data, my process for evaluating it and that’s where a good process really builds confidence to make that decision when you see that good. Okay on, yeah, these air interesting. Ondas you said very these type of questions very hard to anticipate that they’re going to come. How does the interviewer prepare? You talked down a little bit, like going a little more detail on and then shortly we’ll get to how many interviewers there should be, but but but how do we prepare as an interviewer? Oh, as an interviewer? Well, basically, you identify the skills that are required for success in the john. Based on those skills, you develop a line of behavioral questions using the formula that i shared with you. Typically you will type those up in an interview guide or just lift if you have multiple interviewer shall divide that list up among all of your interviewers so that there are no gaps in your questioning and there’s no redundant safe so everyone has their game plan. They interview based on that. So that’s, the primary way that you would prepare a search would review the resume common things, write what you want you want it certainly want to be prepared. So if it is a a siri’s of interviews interviewers, they don’t ask the same questions then no, they don’t that’s really a waste of time, and you have so little time in an interview. You want to make sure to use it wisely. Now they ain’t me ask multiple questions about a specific skill, but they typically don’t ask the same questions because if they asked the same question, the candidate will probably give the same example and that’s kind of silly. You still tell the same story twice, exactly, and you would expect that so it’s not the interview each fall. That’s the interviewers fault for not being prepared. On the other hand, what if all the interviewees stories, anecdotes come from just one of their jobs or something? Or just too? And they’ve got, you know, thirty years of experience or something like that? Well, that would absolutely be a red flag. Either they’re bred through depth of experience is not what it may appear on their resume or perhaps there’s something that they just don’t want to share with you so that’s something that you may, if you find when you bring your interviewers together, that the same stories were told to everybody, then you could either make a no hyre decision or you could make a decision have follow-up phone interview where you would try to clean examples from some of their other work experience. Okay, so you’d like to follow up interview to be by phone, but the first one to be in person is that right? What i’m talking about here is typically you would do a phone screen, ok stations, and then bring the candidate in for face-to-face what i was saying is, if you feel you can’t make ah hyre no hyre decision, you know, you always have the option to follow-up again by phone and asked more questions, okay, okay, um and so since we’re talking sort of around this, what is your advice around having just one interviewer or having a siri’s of interviewers, um, or even having a panel? Okay, well, we would always recommend more than one interviewer, if at all possible and you can is that just to eliminate bias of one person, it could eliminate bias. It can get you more data, because if you have two interviews that you have more data on which to base a decision, listen, there are two ways of doing what we call a serial interview, which is cheryl interviews candidate hands candidate off to tony who interviews to hands it off to joe, and then when you separately and then after all the interviews, you come back together and share your example and make a decision. There’s also the panel interview where you have multiple people interviewing the candidate at one time, and you, khun, do multiple panels panels are great ways to involve more people from your organization and getting exposure to candidate. You just don’t want the panels to get too big. You know what is to become a panel? Interviews khun b scary. I’ve heard stories from people who were interviewed by five people or so that’s pretty intimidating it’s very intimidating. I’ve been interviewed by him and he had six at one time. I know. A lot about interviewing and that that was a nerve ng me, what we recommend is either two or three. When it gets above three, it can not only be intimidating, but it’s difficult for the interviewers to kind of it should be choreographed. So you should have someone out of the panel who is kind of the host and is kind of orchestrating this interview. There’s not an r k. Everyone firing questions at the candidate, and it really doesn’t set the candidate up. Cheryl nufer is a founding partner of peredo consulting. You’ll find them on the web, but peredo pr e teo hyphen consulting dot com we’re talking about smart interviewing, making great hiring, cheryl, is there an advantage of serial interviewing over the panel or the other way around? Well, there is an advantage in the advantage is that when you’re in a panel, if you conduct one panel interviews, all three of you are hearing the same stories, the same situation in a serial interview. It’s more likely, you will hear different stories, or sometimes the same story told different ways. And so, you know, that sounds bad, but it can be bad if in fact, there are vast differences in the story, like your fourth step in the supposed be the results. So if the results who are different in the same story across to different interviews that’s a bad sign that red flag may be, the results keep getting better and better. Three interview that’s a great way to start catching a candidate who may be fabricating for people actually do that. Is that true? Absolutely, they do. I’ve heard rumors to that effect, but i always hoped it wasn’t so another question i asked listeners before the show is our hires in your office typically interviewed by more than one person and seventy one percent said yes, fourteen percent said no, so most people are doing the multiple interviewing and then fourteen percent said depends on the job. Um all right, is there a job where the solo interview makes sense or no, you really just don’t like that at all. There’s a situation, i guess i mean when just one interviewer makes sense. Here’s what i would say in some more straightforward job, maybe some entry level jobs it could perhaps the appropriate that i say it’s no more appropriate in bigger organizations, bigger cos you have a really small organisation. You have to hire the right people. You i have no where to hide them. You have no one to cover for them. Hyre abad a bad fit so i think it’s always good in a small organization, if possible, to have a second set of eyes and get that second set doesn’t have to be somebody that the person is going to report to, right? It could be a colleague. I mean, taking officer just four or five people, they’re going to be hiring off fifth or sixth, like a cz you’re saying that’s a big percentage of the staff, it doesn’t have to be somebody that that person would report to write absolutely not. And in a small organization of horrified people, i mean everyone’s wearing multiple hats, they really have to depend on each other. So everyone has a big stake in making sure the best person has brought onboard so it could be a appear. It could be someone that maybe is performed well in a similar job in the past. You’re absolutely right. It could be just as long as they’re good. Interviewer god, they would be appropriate. How do we gauge technical expertise? We’ve been talking about behavior? Well, you can use behavioral questions to get that technical competencies, but technical skills are a little bit easier. For example, if you were hiring someone for fund-raising you can actually have them bring in and explain fund-raising approaches that they’ve used in the past, and i would ask a lot of follow-up questions to make sure that what they brought us, something they actually did. There are tests that you can use for certain technical skills. You can also do simulations, so for example, if you were hiring someone for a sales position, are fund-raising position you could actually have them come in and do a presentation to a team of you, and so you were potential donors and see how they would handle it. So there are a lot of ways to get technical. We have just about a minute left, cheryl, what potential problems should people look out for if they’re goingto implement behavioral interviewing? I think the biggest problem is asking a behavioral question and assuming you’re going to get a behavioral answer, so you have to be able to sort out hypothetical responses through a good line of follow-up questioning about the situation there, action in the results in-kind situation. Obstacle, action and results. Shell nufer is a founding partner of peredo consulting, which provides small to medium sized organizations with business tools that are often available only the large, for-profit corporations. Cheryl, thank you very much for being a guest has been a pleasure. Thank you so much, and i hope that this information will help you. I think it will help listeners. Thank you very much. A pleasure to have you thank you. Right now. We take a break, and when we return tony’s, take two. I have a favor to ask, stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s, time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is i have a favor to ask. I asked block followers to give the show a one to five star rating on itunes, just like i asked our podcast listeners to do in the past two weeks, and podcast listeners stepped up thank you very much for doing that. I’m not going to prevail on you for third week, i won’t ask you to take that easy step by going to the very simple to remember non-profit radio dot net podcast listeners i’m not asking you to do that to go to non-profit radio dot net and then to click on view in itunes and then on the next page to scroll down to the bottom and click the one to five stars not asking that this week, i asked blogged followers to do that, so the only group remaining is live listeners live listeners open a window, go to non-profit radio dot net, click overviewing itunes and then on the next page, scroll down to the bottom. You can do it five listeners, you’re the third segment that i’m prevailing on non-profit radio has a linked in group. You will find us on linkedin. Please join the group is going to be a place for us. Teo. Host discussion whether it’s follow-up to a show or discussion about new topics that you might like to hear on the show. So please check us out on linked in. And that is tony’s. Take two for friday, april thirteenth, the fifteenth show of twenty twelve. Maria simple the prospect. Find her. Are you there? I am here. I know you are maria simple. You’ll find her on the prospect finder. Dot com she’s experienced trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now. Welcome back, maria. Thanks for having me again, tony. Always a pleasure. We’re talking about relationship mapping and minding your own data. What is relationship mapping? Well, in a nutshell, relationship mapping is trying to map out relationships to prospects in your own database, but also to find new unknown connections. Either those connections that may exist within your database that you didn’t realize existed relationships between people or it could be relationships outside of the organization. So, um let me give you an example. We’ve talked in the past about reactive prospect research and proactive prospect research, so reactive is when you have a known name of an individual or perhaps an organization, an entity, and you need to know more about them. So you have a note you have you’re starting from a known point, and you’re just trying to find more information about that that’s reactive research proactiv might be if you are sitting with other members of your staff or perhaps members of your develop your development committee and, um, discussions starts coming around about cos center in the region or some new names that have popped up new people in the community, and you’re trying to figure out how are those people connected to others in the community? How well connected they may be, but also what might be the pathway to get us to that person or to get us to that organization? So here you’re you’re starting off with a lot less information, and you’re going to go out and proactively speak more information about about that. So, uh, let’s say you have ah, donors and your database, and you’d like to know a bit more about who else they may be connected to. There are some tools out there that we’re going to get into in a moment that will be able teo, help paint that picture for you, so speak so there are a lot of very useful tools that are available to us both free and sea bass, right? I always appreciate that you come with lots of free resource is i try to come with this much free is possible, but i do realize that some people do have some budgets or maybe already tied into some cem prospect research tools that they didn’t realize also had this other relationship mapping component to it that they might not be taking advantage of right now. So i do like to include some of that information, so i think we should just tell people at the outset no, that what the all of the resource is that we’ll talk about on today’s show i have compiled the mall in a list, and i’ll post them on both your facebook business page. Tony, and i’ll do it also on your new lincoln group, if that’s alright with you too, so this way they can they can listen and not have to worry about taking as much in the way of notes at this time, because i’ll point them to all of the sights. Okay, let me just share with you the poll question on this dark, which was, are you using relationship mapping tools? Many free, like muckety dot com and note excel, which we’ll get to toe uncover relationships in your existing data? Nobody said yes, half said no, but i know about the tools. And the other half said i’ve never heard of this. I better listen on friday, okay, so even people who know about aren’t using them. So hopefully we so we need to motivate a little bit. This is this is a lot deeper than just the pull down menu of friends that each person in your database has right friends within the database. That’s correct? Yeah, this’s much deeper than that. And so there are services that have done a very nice job of compiling people, compiling companies who those people are within the companies within the foundation’s, etcetera and and really painting a picture of how these people are all interconnected because, you know, building relationships is really crucial to the ongoing success of a nonprofit organization. We hear over and over and over again and development about how people give to people, get out their network, meet more people, build relationships and so on and so forth. So this could be a way to at least identify who some of those other people are that we should be talking. Tio okay. And so this is before we get into the actual services thes air screenings, right? So you would share your data with the companies that you are with the sites that we’re going to talk about? Is that right? Well, no, not necessarily. I go in and i used the services on a one off basis. No, i go in and i plug in the name of an individual, and i see what that particular service might have compiled on that individual and who they’re connected to in the world and so forth. So i was doing a little bit of testing this week on ah, well known name of an individual who is connected in both the business and the foundation world here in new jersey. And i came up with some really interesting results. I don’t know if you want me to get into, you know that specific name or any of that. I’m not the person. You. Yeah, but i know that you can just go and start with just a name and plug that name in. Okay, you can do it on individual name basis, but i’m a little confused. So i thought this was data mining. Can you also reveal relationships within your database? That goes deeper than that? A couple of theirs, too. Services that i looked at in the last couple of weeks. Preparing for this show that do allow you to do it with your own. Yeah. Never prepared. I tried. You should be the host. So two of the services one free, one fee based to do allow you to talk. Kind of. Take a look at your own database and discover relationship. Let’s, get into what? The zone. Now, what’s the what’s, the free one. Okay, so a couple of the free ones. But since we’re on the topic of minding your own database let’s, talk about a free tool that allows you to do that. It’s called node x l and o d e xl and this is actually a an interactive network. Visually, they call it a network. No, i can’t even talk visualization and analysis tool that leverages your m s excel application as the platform. So it’s a plug in really for your if you have anything that you can export to excel and they say it’s a free download in a zip file. Now i’ve not tested this. Hopefully, you know, i’m not missing speaking here that it’s up and still available and working, but that were supposed to be able, teo, help you identify relationships that exist within your database. And then is this one of the companies that are one of the site, so that will give you those fancy looking maps with all the detailed lines and showing all connections between people and treat people and companies? That’s, right? That’s really kind of the cool thing about this, about this whole notion of relationship mapping is that imagine tony martignetti being a little stick figure on your computer screen and resonating out from there like a starburst? Almost would be lines like spokes. Okay? And so tony might be connected to the two martignetti. Plan giving advisers tony might be connected to abc board of directors for a corporation. Tony might be connected to x y z non-profit board. So all of the spokes are pointing out to other places where tony has a connection. And this is all mind off the internet. Really? All of the publicly available data foundations also. Right. Someone’s got to foundation that’s, right? That’s? Right. So one of the other now a fee based tool that will allow you to look at again at your own relationship management tools. You’ve heard of sales force, right? Which is what they call a, like a cr ram, a customer relationship or constituent relationship management tool. What’s jargon jail. They’re okay. You know, that’s going trying to explain. So it’s it’s really it’s a way for you to house all of your contact information. A lot of people. Will you simply use something like outlook for this? Um, but anyway, it’s it’s a tool to house data on individuals that either customers, donors, prospects and sales forces. Actually, they do have a component available free to non-profits, by the way. So they have a tool called prospect visual. And what prospect? Visual does is it interacts with sales force, so they provide. They say that they provide their clients with comprehensive intelligence about their target opportunities, and they deliver key insights about ways to reach them with trusted introductions. So that is a fee based tool, and that might be something that if your organization is using the sales force to track all of your donor records and so forth, you might take a look at using prospect visual right now. Do you know whether prospect visual works with the free component, the free offering of sales force for channels? I didn’t get that far in my research, so i’m not one hundred percent certain about that, but i would think that it should interact who is even what they have available to the non profit sector, if not certainly something you might start asking sales force about. If you are sales force user, that might be something you could bring to their attention that you would like access to having this integrate with prospect visual. Okay, so there’s two tools that i know specifically of that i’ve i’ve come across that will look at your own your existing data now. Do you know? Do you import to the to the sales force based one the prospect visual? Is that also an xl import or export to it or someone you know? I think that directly connects and relates into your sales force dot com database. If you have a database house there, you would look at prospect visual if you have your database housed and more if you’re really small and you’re not into any type of fund-raising software, you might take a look at this note, excel if that plug in is available for you day or what, or whatever program you are using for your database management, you might be able to export from there to excel, yeah, and then and then from excel toe node excel, right? And, you know, i think it would be totally reasonable as well, now that i’m thinking about it for you to go to your software provider, whoever you are using for donor database management and say to them, hey, you know, i just learned about this new tool called relationship mapping i’d love to be able to know what does your firm offer in terms of a tool that i can use to mind, ah, nde, find new and existing relationship that i didn’t realize existed within my own database. Okay, we have just a minute before break. Maria, you wantto introduce us to another? Yeah, let’s, get yeah, let’s, get into one other one that’s free at this point. Muckety muck, itty dot com m u c k e t. Why this’s really pretty cool? It is. It explores path of power and influence. That’s. What their tagline, your muckety muck. So you can see here by a person’s name or an organization name, but don’t use me as an example because i am not a muckety muck. So put somebody else in that that that was your name in there. You didn’t come up in that database. I did. I did try to put your name in there while i was playing, but i could wait. What’d you say i was busy talking over you? What? No, i didn’t find your name in no surprise. All right, so you gotta rub it in. Thank you. Couldn’t just leave it. It wasn’t enough for me to just joke about you had actually make it realistic. And riel really? Thank you. Thank you so much. This’ll be maria’s last time on this show. So you may as well. Tweeter of fan fond farewell use hashtag non-profit radio say goodbye to maria. Actually, we’re going to take a break and when we come back we’ll talk more about muckety without me, so stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast. Talking. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m talking with maria simple about relationship mapping on dh, the next site that we’re gonna talk about his loser dot com. So your prospects are not on muckety like me, which maria hastily pointed out, you goto loser dot com and they’ll map all the of course they’ll be no spokes coming from that would just be one little stick figure in the middle. No spokes it’ll just have the person in isolation. Yeah, i’m not sure we should be sending people to that site. I have no idea. I don’t know what that all right, let’s, talk about mark s o muckety. Yeah, you know, we’ll we’ll provide you with that nice visual map, as i described it a little earlier about how people are connected, but also they have ah, brief bio that they provide on individual. So i do find that quite used so you might come across an individual that you’d like tio run through that particular database. I frequently when i’m doing my prospect research, tony, these are tools that i have in my toolbox, right? So i’ll be, you know, doing research and finding out what? You know about their philanthropic giving about their assets, anything i can get ahold of in the public domain. These sites are yet another tool that i do reach out to and run their names through the services. Sometimes it’ll be in one service, and sometimes it’ll be in another and that’s why it’s important to kind of have a nice arsenal that you can tap into and have more than just one even relationship mapping, mapping tools? What i think is valuable about these tools is i want to point out that because i was looking at the some of the maps that were created, they don’t just show the person and their connections, but then let’s say the person is connected to a foundation and then the other people who are connected to that foundation that’s, right? And then as well as other people connected that person so it doesn’t just go one one level out or one dimension, right? You can keep, you can keep expanding it out much further. So as i was talking before about using your name is an example. Let’s say you’re connected to the x y z foundation. Well, then, certainly that’s. That’s not just a bricks and mortar building, right? That foundation, that foundation is made up of people so you can actually click on that foundation name and hit expand. And it will then show shootout spokes. And at the end of each spoke will be the individual names of other directors who are connected to that foundation. So presumably then tony martignetti would have access to say all ten of those directors of that particular foundation. And this all has the advantage of being visual which appeals to a lot of people. Yes, absolutely, absolutely so. Moving on to the next tool i want to talk about is corporation wicki. And again here you can search by people, companies and st. So one of the things that i liked about corporation wiki is that you can. Then you can click on your state name and then drill down further to getting it just as far down as a name of a particular town. And names pop up their corporations and so forth. So, you know, a lot of the wealth in america. Tony is held by people who own their own business since right? So that was that was highlighted forthe very well many years ago in that book the millionaire next door. So you make you may have some new names pop up of businesses and individuals that you had no idea resided or ran a business in your particular community. And so this might bring up some new organizations and people that you want to check out a little further is corporation wicky one of the free sites or this is a pay one? Yes, it’s free. Well now another free one that we have talked about extensively in the past, it’s called lincoln and you know that is more on, you know, you have to be a lincoln member, which is free todo, but then you can also plug in the name of an individual, and it will tell you how many degrees you’re separated from that individuals so that’s more for me to be your business to business prospecting that you might be looking to do and developing relationship. So i don’t think we need to spend too much time talking about lengthen because we’ve talked about it a lot, but certainly it can be considered a relationship mapping tool they actually have ah provide a link to your listeners to something called in maps, which is kind of ah, cool, interactive visual representation of your own professional universe. Where do you find that? How do you find in mathos i’ve got the link for you right on the, uh called in maps, and i provided on the recap that i’ll send out after the conclusion of today was flickering through its on lincoln it’s unlinked yet, but i’m saying we’ll put it on facebook page and in the lincoln group. Yes, i’ll put it on both planes for you, uh, another freebie and the final one to talk about in terms of the free is called the notable names database, and they say that they track over thirty seven thousand people of note. Now i will say that there you’re going to be finding more of the, you know, famous people who are out there, but but certainly if you happen to have a prospect who is a famous individual or a donor who’s, a famous individual, you might run their names through the database to see who else they may be connected to, that they could help open some doors that sounds like it could also be called top one tenth of one percent dot com thirty seven thousand people that’s pretty small. But now that i’ve confused people, why don’t you give the name of that site one more time? Uh, notable names database it’s called n and d b and they had something called a mapper. Tools and andy be mad. Brutal. We have to leave it there. All these resources will be on the facebook page and the new linked in group maria simple is the prospect finder. You will find her. You will. You will find the finder at the prospect finder dot com. Thank you very much, maria. Thank you very much. Always a pleasure. Finance my thanks. Also to cheryl nufer for joining me in the first segment next week. The eminem’s melanie and melanie it’s the melanie show. Melanie grace west writes the donor of the day feature for the wall street journal. I have a special title all set for her. You’ll have to listen to hear what that is. I’ll ask her how she likes to be pitched so that you can give it your best shot at getting major coverage for your donors. In the journal, and we’ll also talk about what she’s learned from writing this column every day five days a week, the donor of the day feature and melanie schnoll begun is managing director at morgan stanley private wealth management. She helps her ultra high net worth clients make charitable gifts and get on boards, but she has incredible, really valuable practical advice that applies to any charity soliciting any size, gift or recruiting any boardmember also, do you think that the very wealthy people aren’t interested in small and midsize charity boards? She’s going to prove you wrong podcast listeners you stepped up. Thank you very much again for rating my show in itunes. If you haven’t yet, you can always start by going to non-profit radio dot net. I think i mentioned that once or twice earlier. And for those of you who did thank you again very much. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote proof producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you will be with me next. Week for the melanie show, friday, one to two p. M eastern. Always at talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. They didn’t think that shooting. Good ending, depending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, get anything. Cubine how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? 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You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Looking to meet mr and mrs wright but still haven’t found the one i want to make your current relationship as filling as possible, then tuning on thursdays at one pm for love in the afternoon with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all with distinguished authors, industry coolers and experts on everything from wine to fashion. Join us as we discuss dating, relationships and more on talking alternative dot com. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. 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Nonprofit Radio for September 3, 2010: Talking About Your People

Big Nonprofit Ideas for the Other 95%

You can subscribe on iTunes and listen anytime, anyplace on the device of your choice.

Tony’s Guest:

Karen Bradunas, Human Resources consultant.

Talking about your people.

They are your most important asset: attracting, hiring, retaining, motivating, managing and removing.

Here is the link to the podcast: 008: People: Your Most Precious Asset

This Friday from 1-2pm this week and every week!

Top Trends. Sound Advice. Lively Conversation.

You’re on the air and on target as I delve into the big issues facing your nonprofit—and your career.

If you have big dreams but an average budget, tune in to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

I interview the best in the business on every topic from board relations, fundraising, social media and compliance, to technology, accounting, volunteer management, finance, marketing and beyond. Always with you in mind.

When and where: Talking Alternative Radio, Fridays, 1-2PM Eastern

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Metoo this’s tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host tony martignetti welcome to the show. Last week, we talked about honesty about your organization’s mistakes and failures we had new york times, stephanie strong with us in the studio, and we also talked about keeping your non-profit and you’re bored, safe and out of trouble. Remember, that was with ken cerini and jean takagi no threatening letters from the attorney general in your state or from the irs that was last week. This week were focused on your people techniques to attract and retain your most precious resource, which is the people who work for you, the people who help you to help those who your organization is supporting and improving the lives of your people. Your most critical resource, your non-profits future depends on having the best people working for you. My guest this week is karen bradunas, human resources consultant. Karen will join us after the break and about midway through i’ll have some thoughts about charitable gift annuities. I want you to be careful about those they could be an outstanding gift for your non-profit but there are some things to be aware of, and i’ll talk about those around the middle of the show. Joining me after this break, we’ll be karen bradunas will be back in ninety seconds. You can wait that long. Please stay with us. You didn’t think that shooting getting thinking, you’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in i’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re non-profit is ignored because you’re smaller medium size, but you still need expertise and help with technology fund-raising compliance, finance and accounting will look at all of these areas on the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on talking alternative dot com fridays. One, too hyre talking. Welcome back, i’m tony martignetti i’m joined now by karen bradunas karen is a human resource is consultant, and her stated guiding philosophy is to bring large company expertise and best practices to smaller organizations. That sounds a lot like big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. So where? Simpatico on that? Prior to consulting, karen held officer positions at travelers insurance and deutsche bank, so she brings big for-profit experience to non-profits karen has an impressive acronym after her name one i don’t see too often s p h r spohr is senior professional in human resource is, and i’m very glad that karen’s practice brings her to the studio today. Karen, welcome. Hi, tony, how are you? I’m well, thanks very much for coming. A few weeks ago, i blogged on something that i called the elusive perfect fit employee. I was concerned about anecdotes that i hear from people who are in the job search and applying for jobs and are told that they’re very well qualified, but they’re told we’re going to hold out for the perfect fit. We’re looking for that perfect fit, employees, and you commented on my block and why don’t we start there. What do you think about that illusive perfect fit? Employees? This is a hot topic right now. Among a lot of hr professionals. Our concerns are what is a perfect employee in that term in general, is it what fits you organization today? Is it what fits your organization in five years? Do you even know where you’ll be in five years? Is a perfect employee, someone who’s flexible. So the word perfect and job specs right now, it’s a conundrum because when we have conversations with hiring managers, oftentimes they don’t know and oftentimes a job description is being written based on a failure of a predecessor or an employee who leaves and say, i like this person, but i really want to add this other piece to the job. So i have concerned that it’s not really strategic when people say i want a perfect employee. So i think this is challenging right now. A number of hr people are sort of scratching their heads. I’ve talked to a number of recruiters across sectors and all they’re saying, well, we’re not really sure. So what they’re doing is they’re translating what they hear from the employee into words they understand, which may or may not be the right fit. I use an example, a new organization that wants a cfo that does web design, which everyone so scratches your head. Maybe the client really means they need a cfo who understands the technology and presence of web two point. Oh, that’s a lot different than a cfo that does web design, and i think that that’s one of the challenges right now. You mentioned the job description a couple of times, and you’ve alluded to it sounds like that’s critical to the to the to the first part of the hiring process, which is identifying your needs basically right, the job description. Besides being necessary as a compliance issue, which is a big deal, and employers, i really need to look at it because this is going to be a heavily regulated and looked at field on area. Sorry of h r it is a guide map for anyone doing a search of a way of weeding out resumes. On average, a recruiter spends less than a minute on a resume that’s. Why job seekers are always worried about buzz words and trying to read. Job descriptions in job postings, which are two different things, a job posting summarizes what you’re looking for a job description, talks about usually summarizes a job, talks about specifics of the job and also skills needed and minimum requirements to do the job. And maybe we’ll get to the job posting shortly. That job description is that supposed to be just an internal document? Or is that also shared often or should it be shared? I mean, let’s talk best practices? What that be shared with potential potential employees? There are a few schools of thought on this from a risk reduction standpoint. Usually i show two prospective employees this is the job description. Are you able to do this job? Do you need any kind of accommodation to do this job? It’s helpful for them to see it? I think every employees should see their job description on the part as part of the hiring process. Yeah, i don’t see a problem with that because if if you’re looking for someone and you’re investing employees, invest a lot of time in recruiting there’s a huge amount of time, and if you really want the best person and you’ve taken all this time to write a job description. What? Why not share it? Why not talk about why not have the the prospective employees say i haven’t done this, but i’ve done this this and this that really would help your organization and have a chance to really talk to what your needs are and that’s going to be after the employees get screen or the potential employee gets screened because we’ve right, we’ve looked at the resume now where we have just a few people coming in, and at that stage, your recommendation is share. The job description was at that screening process. Yeah, that’s challenging, yeah, everyone i’ve talked to tio it’s frustrating right now in this market for every job posting out there, you get hundreds of resumes and i’m talking about hundreds in a week or in a few days, and so often times people are screening based on things like, okay, which school did they goto? I’m looking for this specific buzz where, because the client said it four times in our conversation, i i sometimes get asked by my clients to do searches, even though i don’t sell myself as a recruiter and i actually research candidates through linked in and other tools, and invite them to apply because i’m looking for specialized behaviours, projects, successes and that way i don’t have to weed through all the people that really are not appropriate. And that’s, pretty standard practice to for employers is, too go beyond the resume and cover letter writing to do some research online. It isn’t a standard, as one might hope. Okay, well, maybe. Well, why don’t we pick that up after this break? I’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio, and my guest is karen bradunas human resource is consultant will be back after this break. Stay with us. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness can help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set two one two nine six, four, three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Dahna hyre durney. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Durney welcome back on tony martignetti i’m joined by karen bradunas human resource is consultant karen. Before the break, we were talking about online research, researching candidates beyond their cover letter and resume. You think it’s not as widespread as it should be, i think it’s a generational split, i think generation x and y really do use web to point l as tools off attracting candidates as well as researching the backgrounds of candidates. I think baby boomers are a little reluctant to do so. I they’re at their peril. You think you think think they limit who they can their pool of candidates? I also think the approach to social media and privacy is very different for a baby boomer versus generation x and y and this is a hot issue legally let’s talk about it, what’s what’s up there. Well, i am pretty consistently talking to clients about what shared openly on the web and the implications to the organization on, and i find that for for most baby boomers there, they tend to be more conservative and again, i’m really generalizing and generation x and why the common is so what geever and it’s a quagmire and it’s yet to really be resolved, i have some employment attorneys that air saying, you know, we really need to be careful how we craft this because it’s not going away it’s goingto only grow in the future, but in terms of a tool and a viable tool to reach audiences. But do you really want to know how some of your employees spend their free time and what some of their alternative interests are? If it’s not aligned with the organization’s mission, you mentioned something earlier that i want to follow up on, and that was that you will occasionally invite candidates. You will go beyond the submissions that you get, i oftentimes we’ll start a search by not posting it. I will actually go on to and i use linked in a lot because i find that that to be a pretty professional tool that i can find out a lot about an applicant, i will go on lengthen, do some searches and ask people to join my network or tom about thie position, and then they can apply. And do you see others doing that you’re you’re doing that as a consultant. Do you see clients doing? That, on their own. Not again. I have smaller clients, so that’s our audience and one of the challenges they face is they have one person who wears five or six hats trying to recruit, you know, handle all of the hr handled a number of things. So when they have an immediate need for someone, they may not be having the time to do the research, andi, oftentimes they’ll ask me to help with that. I think they would benefit from it. I think that a number of people maybe can use some guidelines of of some shortcuts of how to do that that i’ve learned the hard way, but oftentimes i see the actual business line. Is we using corporate world or the individual hiring manager saying i found someone, i want you to meet them and let them through hr and which is ok, but i think hr lacks the supporting nature that they probably should have by by bringing in the candidates to the hiring manager. I’m tony martignetti my guest is karen bradunas human resource is consultant. Karen, would you share maybe one of those wanted to those shortcuts that you just mentioned? Sure, i i do sorts unlinked. In and i do google strings. There is an incredible recruiter whose classes are often free on the web. His name is shelly stuck role and i’m giving him a free plug. Can you spell his last name from s t e c k e r e l okay, andi, i think the organization he’s with his are baida r b i t a they also published things that help on he’s, viewed in the hr community as an incredible resource. He gives seminars on sure webinars and i think actually has done some sherm conferences. Sherm is the site of three mean society for human resource is management. It is lobbying bodies also. Ah, great resource for anyone who is has the hr function. They will do research for you if you need it. So it’s it’s a good organization you belong to. But shelly has some great ways of doing strings searches and using the internet for getting passive candidates as well as active candidates for a lot of not-for-profits it doesn’t make sense economically to join all the job boards it’s expensive to have their resume databases it’s also time consuming to develop your own resume database. Often for not-for-profits air looking for very specialized knowledge that may or may not be in the typical databases. So, um, doing searches and even business search is on specific documents. Published articles are great ways to get candidates excellent ideas. Thank you, let’s. Sort of follow the hiring chronology. Let’s, talk a little bit about interviewing, okay? Ah, i’ll just open it broadly. What? What ideas do you have? Based on what you’re seeing people doing about interviewing? I’m seeing more of a trend in this market of doing phone screenings first before in person interviews. I this was a number of months ago. The hiring turnaround has become longer. Typically for a secretary. You could turn that wreck around in about a week. Recruiting now, it’s about a month and this phone screening is at a practice you like, um, iphone screen. But again, i oftentimes will interview applicants in, like pennsylvania and it’s, just cheaper to do that. I do an hour phone interview. I don’t know anyone else. I approach recruiting, sort of like a retained in contingency approach, so i will have an hour’s worth of questions to ask someone and i will talk about how to handle this situation what? You know, what do you most proud of? Give me examples. So i’m doing a behavioral interview as well as going through the resume and getting, you know, data. So for small and midsize organization, they can really spend save a lot of time, i think, by doing the phone screening interview, even if it is a local candidate close. Yeah, i think so. And you don’t have to worry about scheduling and people traveling in and all of that, i do think it’s really critical what you ask in an interview, i’m really surprised when i go through files of of of interviews, it took place some of the questions that get asked because i think that the organization can really vet candidates much better had they asked a few more questions in the interview process, so okay, let’s, move past the phone screening interview, which you highly recommend to the live face-to-face what tips do you have there? Well, when in a live interview i’m looking for, you know, do they make eye contact? How do they answer my questions? Is there anything that looks to be that they’re uncomfortable with? And then i want to probe that further, so i’m doing a lot of body language at that point, i want to see how they interact with other people. I have done both group interviews and individual interviews. I’ve worked a lot with technical organizations, and although i’m not a night person, i’ve been fairly accurate a calling problems with employees out in the interview like you have a problem with this one he’s going to be late all the time, and you never problem with this one, they’re going to want to really be pushed in their career if you’re not prepared to do that, don’t hyre and have you been vindicated means there have been hires and then within six months or so, yes, you were, but i warned them and again, i think the challenge for me is an h r professional when i see this and i and i’ve learned over time to say i want to go on record as saying this, i then have to let go because it is the hiring managers role to take what they want as an employee because it’s their business, the ultimate decision is altum absolutely the interview what? About the dreaded group interview that from from the employees or from the interviewees perspective is the dreaded why might there be a need for for, ah, panel interview? Or is that a bad practice? I don’t think it’s a bad practice, i think it’s a bad practice if you’re having someone do in, you know, projects on their own and not going to be in a panel environment after hyre them, i think you want to replicate the environment that the person is going to be working in, and if you want to test how they interact with different work styles, i know some some employers say, you know, this person can get a little wild in an interview, so i’m going to be there to temper their questions or, you know, to make sure they’re okay with a candidate, but i think that you want to replicate his best, you can the environment to coming into it’s like training. People talk a lot about training classes and how they did really well in the training class, but they couldn’t bring it back to the workplace we’ll, of course, because the training class with this was a sterile environment. That there were rules there, the rules may be different in the work environment, but and it’s okay, toe evaluate the employee, how they might perform, even though you know that it’s already a pressure environment there feeling pressure because the interview situation so, yeah, i think that that’s really critical if you have someone that’s going to be giving proposals to senior senior people in donors, if you don’t test how they do well under pressure, i think you’re doing your organization into service and you may lose dollars dahna dollars because of that. So there’s an implicit value to doing this aside from evaluating the substance of their of their answers in their conversation that you’re seeing how they perform under pressure in front of a panel of things two or three people or maybe more people, right? Because that’s going to be part of their job responsibilities let’s get past the interview, you’ve made the hyre and i know there’s there’s a lot of law around the hiring, but i’m goingto i’m goingto skip that and i’d really like to spend a little time on training. You’ve got a brand new employee, it’s let’s say, it’s day. One what do we do in that first day? And maybe the first couple of weeks, i think most employers i talked to struggle with some better than others. How to onboard that’s, thie hr speak for onboarding employees, we have george in jail here onboard defined onboarding the employees, i’m bored not like waterboarding the important okay, but it can feel like that. But yes, lorts onboarding onboarding is really bringing an employee in and making them part of the culture so it can be all things from the paperwork to meeting other employees to feeling they know where they to go, to get what they need to get the job done to understanding what their role is in the organization. It’s really assimilation on, and i think that organisations typically could afford to spend a lot more time developing an orientation on boarding process. And i imagine there’s a lot of documentation that goes with this should be a written documents, right? What kinds of documentations, but even beyond that? Because you’re giving an employee of the legal requirement documents, you know, that setting up for payroll, giving an employee manual, all of that stuff, but there’s also you know, here’s, my team, this is what we dio let’s talk to this other team because we interact with him, let’s, meet with them let’s, you know, figure out how things work within the organization that people process it’s really difficult for organizations to get meaning time for new employees because everybody’s worried about getting there, job done and you hire people you don’t typically hyre five people on the same day. So it’s a really scheduling issue as well, but it is time well spent. Absolutely. It should be a sounds like it should be a priority that supervisors say this is important onboarding welcoming our new employee, you need to find the time for it. What? What if? What if we don’t? What are the implications of putting somebody in day one saying there’s, the there’s, the ladies room, here’s, your phone and computer let’s hit the ground running? Well, this this is typical of startups and i’ve done a lot of work with started i think you run the risk of a culture developing based on the the diversity of the group. If you have a set culture you want to maintain, which is our organization. Does this we value our people? This is what we respect. This is what we promote. This is what we reward. Then you have the basis for an orientation program. If you can’t articulate that, you’re gonna have trouble recruiting retaining a motivating. And i think that those air really but it’s, not the job description that gets you good people, it’s you knowing what your organization is and what you need for foreign employees based on what you don’t want for unemployed base and with a with a proper orientation, then it sounds like you’re point is everybody starts from the same base and you’re not subject to, as you said, the diversity of your employee pool. But everybody starts with same face of knowledge, base of knowledge and understanding of the organisation. It creates a transparency because you’re giving the same message to everyone. Let’s say that there’s one person in the organization that has the history, the organization if they happen to meet you and tell you that you now have insider knowledge that i might not have even though i started before you there is going that’s going to create attention there that doesn’t need to. Be there simply because i wasn’t there. It didn’t speak to this individual you mentioned motivating we have just a couple of minutes before the break. Let’s move to the next step. I think of sort of motivating and retaining your valued employees what? Just in the minute and half we have left before the break and give us little tease of ideas. Sure, i think a lot of people employees looked too benefits in salary to motivate, and i think that there are some other things that they should be looking at, especially in this marketplace name just a couple. Well, there’s um, some low cost, no cost rewards of training managers better that would help retain and motivate staff better management training. Absolutely people will feel that there they belong. They belong there. Value is recognized absolutely all the all the important things that go into teo hiring decision that you don’t want to lose a good value that you’ve hired by not motivating and retaining. Absolutely. And after this break, we’re going to talk more about motivating and retaining. I’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio my guest is karen bradunas and she’ll be with us, please. Stay with us after this break. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. I’m tony martignetti, the aptly named host of the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. You’re non-profit is ignored because you’re smaller medium size. But you still need expertise and help with technology fund-raising compliance, finance and accounting will look at all of these areas on the tony martignetti show. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on talking alternative dot com fridays one, too. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back on tony martignetti before we continue our conversation with karen, i’d like teo talk a little bit about charitable gift annuities. This is sort of come to my onto my radar screen because some recent phone calls that i’ve gotten organizations interested in a charitable gift annuity program. Now this is a type of, ah planned gift where the donor who creates one earns income for life from their charitable gift annuity and at their death. What remains in the gift is a gift of cash to your organization in the midst of our recession, there are more and more donors interested in lifetime income, and this income, by the way, is fixed, guaranteed by all the assets of your organization, not just by what’s in their individual gift, but by all the assets of your organization. So in the midst of a recession, that’s appealing to a good number of donors and there are calls that i’ve been getting about starting a charitable gift annuity program, there are some things you should be aware of. Um, if you’re in new york state, if you’re a new york state charity, for instance, there is a hefty amount of money that you have to put into ah mandatory reserve fund it’s one hundred thousand dollars that reserve fund is required by the new york state insurance of department of new york state department of insurance. That department regulates charitable gift annuity programs in the state of new york and it’s, not too uncommon across the states. So really, regardless of where your non-profit is, there’s a lot of regulation, i say in seminars, obey pretty thick web of regulation around charitable gift annuities. You need to know what the requirements are in your state before you can inaugurate a charitable gift annuity program. It’s not like a lot of other planned gift that you can just start offering like charitable bequests. We’d like to have your bequest in in your will for our organization that you could do any time. Charitable gift annuities, very heavily regulated, and in a lot of states, you need to have prior approval, usually by an insurance department before you start offering these gif ts, you also want your board to be well acquainted with the potential of charitable gift annuities because there is a great long term potential, but also the potential risk. I mentioned that the payments are backed by all the assets of your organisation. That means that if the reserve fund where the gift money’s go should be badly managed or depleted, your organization is really still on the hook to make the annuity payments for your donor’s lifetime. And you have multiple donors in your gift annuity program. That’s payments for many donors lifetimes it’s a contract so you’re bored needs to understand that it’s going to be at risk if there should be mismanagement of the monies that are given into a charitable gift annuity program. The organization’s money is going to be potentially at risk to make these life time payments. That said, charitable gift annuities can be a really valuable gift not on ly for the money that they bring in the long term, but also the relationships that they build for your organization. You’ve got donors now if they enter your gift annuity program to make this type of a gift, who are counting on you most likely to support their and supplement their retirement there, other income during retirement and for the rest of their life that’s a pretty serious responsibility, but it brings the donor so close to your organization because now they’re counting on you for their for their income are part of their income for the rest of their life. That’s a serious obligation that you’ve taken on, and a serious commitment that the donor has made to you. They you know, they love you a lot. They trust you a lot if they’re going to make that kind of a commitment to you. And now you’ve got someone that close to you and you can perhaps encourage them to make gift in other ways. You certainly want to keep inviting them to events and keep them close to your organisation. But you’ve got really a friend for life if this all goes well, so there are advantages to charitable gift annuities, long term financial advantages, relationship building, financial relationship, building advantages. But there are also risks and obligations that you’re bored and your ceo need to be acquainted with before you delve into a charitable gift annuity program. My guest is karen bradunas human resources consultant. Karen what do we give people an idea? How first? How can they reach you if they’d like toe talk to you? How can people get in contact with you. Sure, i have a website, which is km bradunas dot com. Which people can can go to and send me an email? I also can be reached by phone to one, two, three, oh, four, nine, one, four, six and typically get back to people within forty eight hours. Very thoughtful of you to offer your telephone number. Thank you and karen’s. Last name is spelled b r, a, d, u and a s karen before the break, and before i waxed on about charitable gift annuities, we’re talking about motivating employees to help retain them. What what other ideas do you have? I’d like to step back a little bit and talk about exit interviews. We’re going to go from the end of why employees leave yeah, okay, because there are lessons to learn, i guess lessons to learn and we’ll talk about i talk a lot ah lot about this with clients because i think that this is a great tool that employers are missing out on it’s free and you get valuable data. Typically, i’ve given a lot of exit interviews in my twenty plus years in hr of usually, the first thing an employee will say is i’m getting better money and then i’ll talk fifteen minutes, twenty minutes and invariably by a half a knauer i hear that they never had a review, they never had a review on time their manager never talked to them. Those are all low no cost things an employee may leave because of money, but five or ten percent difference in pay if they’re able to meet expenses, doesn’t typically have someone looking elsewhere unless they’re unhappy where they are. He’s employees spend a lot of time recruiting and onboarding people it’s sad when they lose someone simply because of manager doesn’t take time to check in with an employee, how they’re doing, and this goes back to the management training that you mentioned before the break. How can we help managers be better? It’s, it’s, really top down, start with the ceo. I talk a lot to ceos, and i hear the comment well, i don’t really like managing, or i don’t like, really doing reviews, and i talk about these air ceos saying, i don’t like managing. Typically, they they, like a lot of ceo, is like to be strategic, but they need teo. Give some guidance, and if they can’t, give guidance to at least hyre someone where staff can go to to get that. I talk a lot about critical incident files with people because it’s a little daunting teo to review a year in one of the challenges when you only do yearly reviews is you remember the last three months, so what’s a critical incident file critical incident file is let’s say we could build a tv show around, i think there’s an c s critical cf cf show, for instance, a manager comes to you and says your employees did a great job on this project. You know, i just want to let you know it really went off. Well, you write that down positive, it’s positive, you save it in a file an employee keeps coming in late, you’re getting emails or you’re keeping those two that that was in this file and you’re talking to the employees as this happens, by the way, so and so gave you a compliment. It takes less than a minute to do that and the motivation for an employee to get that instant feedback buys you an awful lot, so there should be a critical incident file for every employee, right and and that’s used. When you do you review, you don’t have to think about what happened this past year, you open the file and it’s there, and we’ll get more than just the last three months writing a review. What else? Management, you know, may maybe mid level managers training them. Two motivate employees. What else can we do? I’d like to differentiate between supervising and managing because there are people that view them as the same. Managing really requires someone to understand communication styles. Other staff. It helped it’s important for them to understand the interests of their staff in what motivates them. Some people are motivated by money. Some people are motivated by your organization’s mission. Some people are motivated by public recognition. You know, i had an organization that they really were into. Cakes for employees, teo acknowledge birthdays and that with a home baked cakes or were they store bought? Okay, well, so all right, you know, but i know a number of organization that’s really important for you. And for me, that was like, well, what do you mean? But that was part of their culture. And although there’s indications that they would benefit from allowing staff to run with projects of their own choosing, they have a creative staff, and if you have a creative staff, why not create a budget that says we’re going to hold a contest? You’re going to come up with your pet project and let’s, hold a contest and let somebody run with a project. So there’s there’s some creative ways of doing things, and when you start to look at how you’re spending money in recognition and it doesn’t really serve the demographics of your organization, i think you can come up with low cost, no cost rewards, creative ways of managing employees without spending a lot of money? Absolutely. How about the ah, the very important performance review you’ve given us a great idea had a coalesce all the activities for the year through the critical incident file. What else about performance reviews? Are you learning in exit interviews that that these reviews are falling short two areas one they’re not given and to their surprises, performance reviews should not be a surprise they should summarize the year that means if you have an employee that’s having difficulty getting to work on time or performing up to standards, you need to be meaning with them at helping them. Succeed because every time that happens, there’s an entry that goes into the critical incident five and there’s a conversation also, well, one of the challenges for those who don’t keep critical incident files and have conversations is the review becomes a surprise. So this is the first time the employees hears about it a lot. A number of organizations also have a napro tch to performance management, which is, you know, the first time i’ll tell you about it. The second time i’ll write you up in the third time, it will be a final warning, and they often don’t talk about performance improvement. That sounds pretty ominous. Sounds like that sounds like a one way one way track out of the out of the organization. So as soon as your manager comes to talk to you think, ok, this is one of three i’m going to get in the last one’s gonna be i’m out of here. It really needs to be where the manager owns the apart in the process of an employee success. Oftentimes i have conversations with managers that, you know, managing an employee doesn’t mean you just get more money and you get to tell someone what to dio you’re responsible for their success and failure to you share in that and so it it revolves around hey, this is what i need to change and it’s challenging sometimes to train managers at what specifics behaviors they want to see changed because it’s not a belief system, you have control over its behaviors, you know, the time frame for that change and what tools and training maybe needed to have that change occur. And is that something that an employee’s should sign a document that that they’ve been sort of counseled in improvement? Yes, they actually get a copy of this document and they’re actually with this document hr is involved in monitoring that meetings are happening regularly. Yeah, it’s it’s a working document and this probably has legal implications, too, if if the if the performance doesn’t improve, which we’re going to talk about after the break but this is all sort of building that file. Yes. Also the non the not doing of things also has a legal compliance, which we should talk about the organization not not doing things that it ought to be doing. Absolutely okay in the performance review. Is this one of those instances where there need to be more than one person giving the review? Well? Well, actually, we want to use your phrase, which was performance improvement when these performance improvement meetings should there does. There need to be more than one person counseling the employees, typically, performance improvement plans. It’s at the beginning stages of hey, this isn’t really working out. We’ve talked a little bit about it, let’s, figure out a way to make we need a road map. If someone’s trained in hr and delivering this kind of thing, no, if they’re not, then i highly recommend that someone a professional be there. Oh, not just that there be two people, but that one being hr professional, we’re gonna take a break on. My guest is karen bradunas. She’ll certainly join us after the break. I hope you will, too, tony martignetti non-profit radio. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oh! I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter in y si dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six, four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Print. Talking dot com. No. My guest is karen bradunas and we’re talking about your most important resource, your people. Karen. Before the break, we alluded to the legal implications of some of the performance review and performance improvement let’s go into that little further what what are some of these implications? Well, one of the challenges i find for a lot of employers is they don’t want to, or i have difficulty addressing concerns with an employee, and it gets it progresses over time to a point where they say this employee really isn’t fit for the organization anymore, and so to avoid having a difficult conversation, they they don’t do any reviews, they don’t have any any documented conversations, and there are really specific things you need to document in formats to document, and i really encourage anyone who is going through this process to really talk to a professional about it. Oftentimes managers want to handle it on their own. They really should work with someone in hr about what the wording is on a document what’s being spoken about in the conversation on you want to maintain respect for the employees, et cetera and and often times it’s very emotional, so the challenge is no review has given no conversations or documented, and then you want to terminate the employees or even better, the first year the employee was there, you gave them an excellent review and then no review since and now you want to terminate the employees? Yeah, i have had a number of conversations with employees about this and how to manage this, and it really is it’s stressful for them because they end up spending more time in the end of trying to transition and employees out. Had they done reviews regulating had conversations regularly, the process would have either turned around or because we want to be talking about employees improvement. Things could have gotten much better, absolutely, and and it’s unfair to the organization and to the employees and and i can’t stress enough how much this leaks out into the staff and affects all staff motivation because if they see an underperforming employees or disgruntled employees and nothing being done about it, it impacts your entire organization and wouldn’t the fellow employees rather see and a fellow employee improve, then be terminated? Absolutely talk about motivating, right, right, and they start inferring from your behavior toward that employee, how you’re going to treat them, and this is a huge issue that employers need to be aware of. Well, if you didn’t do this for jane, what do you going to do to me? How you going to tell me i’m not doing my job? Well, so it creates this fear that impacts, you know, motivation and productivity in an organization. So yeah, and it becomes really management by fear, even though the manager or the ceo may not he or she may not very well be a tyrant at all, but it’s still creating a culture of fear in the organization undercurrent. And then, you know, i i like to look for things like, well, what’s, absenteeism and what’s you know what, what people are out when and oftentimes in organizations that don’t address issues, often times you’ll see when a critical incident is happening someone’s leaving in and you don’t have a replacement and they need to have their were covered or there’s a project due. People are on vacation that are responsible for that, and i’m like, well, what’s going on here so there’s a lack of ownership and i don’t think it’s, because someone doesn’t want to own it, it’s, that they may be afraid of the failure in the implications of that all sort of leading back to good management practices, right? Absolutely and delivering i think an employee will respect you if you deliver the truth, even the hard truth, even the hard truth, because it’s much easier to hear it and talk about what said than to try and figure out what you’re thinking and the implications for not having these hard discussions. As we’ve said, you’re right, it’s huge, it’s, huge dahna then if you’re not talking to an employee, is it because i’m an older worker? Is it because i’m my race is different than most people in this organization? Is it because i know this person and you don’t like that person? All of this may or may not be true, but it’s unnecessary worry if you’re just having the straight conversation of this is the behavior that i need from you or this isn’t working out let’s figure it out what’s the source of some of the laws that we’ve been alluding to around around hr, we’re not the people unnecessarily going to read. The code, but we talk about hr laws. Where are these? Where do we find them? Well, for benefits, there’s, a risa department of labor has a number of laws. Jorgen jail, employment, retirement income, security act, or, for some of those in benefits. Is everything rotten invented since adam insider tips. Now you have insider hr tips. You would not have heard that it’s been around since nineteen seventy four, but it governs. A lot of it created the pbgc pension benefit guaranty corp. It creates a lot of the structure around how qualified plans are handled. There’s department of labor, there’s federal law there’s different laws depending on the size of your organization. What about state laws to state laws? Absolutely. So, really the hr professional needs to know federal law and state law, state law governing the organism where the organization is incorporated, i guess you know and located. So for instance, if you’re incorporated in new york, but you have a california office, you still have to follow california law. Yeah, which is it’s very important because you can be significant differences, karen, in just a minute or so that we have left, i’d like to end positively let’s talk about however you khun some up for us motivating, retaining, hiring, keeping the good people it’s because, that’s, what hr really wants to do? Right? I think it’s really an employer, knowing what they need on to the extent they can project for the future, what type of person they need in the skillsets to really recruit for that and be committed to making that happen through, you know, mentoring employees and then working out performance improvement plans when necessary and when the employees succeeds to remove them from the plan and have you know a great working organization i love focusing on the positive. The performance improvement planning performance improvement review. My guest has been karen bradunas karen’s, a human resources consultant. Her last name is bell b r a d, u and a s and you could reach her at karen at k m bradunas dot com that’s your email. I want to thank karen very much for joining us in the studio today. Karen. Thank you. Thank you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. We have a facebook page, facebook, dot com slash tony martignetti non-profit radio you could go over there and, like us, the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff, line producer and owner of talking alternative broadcasting. Sam liebowitz. Our social media is by regina walton, doesn’t outstanding job on our facebook page and everywhere throughout the web. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio on talking alternative broadcasting talking alternative dot com. Join us next friday at one p m eastern e-giving ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternate network to get you thinking. E-giving cubine. 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