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Marci Brenholz: Ask When Not Asking
Strong, real donor-centered programs will save you money because you’ll hold onto existing donors rather than having to find new ones. Marci Brenholz knows how. She is director of development at the Ralph Lauren Center for Cancer Care and Prevention.
Glen Macdonald & Stacy Palmer: What Are The Wealthy Thinking?
Stacy Palmer & Glen Macdonald dish on the changing landscape of philanthropy: what giving habits persist and what new trends are developing. Stacy is editor of The Chronicle of Philanthropy and Glen is president of Wealth & Giving Forum.
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. Oh, i’m glad you’re with me. I’d be forced to endure scleroderma if i had the itchy feeling that you missed today’s show ask when not asking strong riel donor-centric programs will save you money because you’ll hold onto existing donors rather than having to find new ones. Marcy brenholz knows how she is director of development at the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention that was recorded at fund-raising day two thousand fourteen this past june. And what are the wealthy thinking stacy palmer and glenn mcdonald dish on the changing landscape of philanthropy? What e-giving habits persist and what new trends are developing? Stacy is editor of the chronicle of philanthropy and glenn is president of wealth and giving forum that’s, also from fund-raising day on tony’s take two thank you, responsive by generosity. Siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks here is my interview with marci marci brenholz on asked when you’re not asking. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen, we’re at the marriott marquis hotel in times square, new york city with me now is marcy brenholz her seminar topic is howto ask when you aren’t asking. Morsi is director of development for the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention. Marcy brenholz welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Good to be here. Thank you. What a pleasure to have you how teo latto asking. You aren’t asking what are what are non-profits not quite getting right about stewardship. Well, i think you know, in this day and age, we have a lot of focus on acquisition and acquisition is really expensive. So there’s direct costs like buying lists. If you’re doing direct mail there’s also staff costs for prospect research and things like that. It’s a lot less expensive toe hold onto the donors you already have. But it’s not the easiest thing to do. So in the seminar, i’m going to kind of break it down into two things that you can do. What is getting your house in order at your organization? So meaning your acknowledgement processes streamlined. You have a great way of recognizing staff might redo your cash reports, some kind of really boring things, like that make an assessment of what kind of stewardship each department is doing. If you’re a bigger organization on dh, then the more fun part of it is to think about what you have to offer to your donor’s that’s really special? Do you have access to celebrities? And that doesn’t necessarily mean, you know, beyonce and jay z. It could be an expert in the field where you work. It could be a great event that you do. You could add on opening session for special donors. There could be travel any number of things that you can do to make donors really feel like they’re part of your work. All right, so why don’t we start with the, uh, the more dry but still important? Yeah, right? You’ve got to get yourself in order before you could go outside. Yeah, we have a good amount of time together. So that’s, where should we start with assessing? I mean, how do we figure out where we’re what do we need to look at? You figure out where we are and then we’ll look at where we gotta go. Yeah, well, i think it depends on the size of your organization. So the case study that i’m going to use is from the u s fund for unicef, where i worked for about three and a half years. It’s a bigger organization, a bigger staff. So what we did is we put together a working group. I mean, people hear the word words working group and just generally roll their eyes, but sometimes they can be effective. We made sure we had representation from all of our departments. And during the first meeting, we just talked about what we thought would be challenging for donors. Attention, soda place. Like the us fund, for instance, we acquired a lot of donors to emergencies the indian ocean tsunami, the haiti earthquake, et cetera. And then we really struggled to have plans about holding on to those donors. Okay, so we talked a lot about whether we were being donor-centric as an organization. So on a two inch of you, you’re my second of you so far from the first one was all about donor-centric zm he was ceo of food for the poor in florida on concerned about donor-centric sametz well, but trying to make it true, not just not just a flash phrase that doesn’t really have a meaning behind it yeah, it’s kind of a buzz word, but you know, the way i think about being donor-centric and if it’s not kind of resonating for you, every fundraiser kind of has low moments, you know? Why did i why did i become a fundraiser? Why am i doing this on dh for me going back to being donor-centric can make you feel better in a way if you think about why donors are given to you and how much of their time and personal resource is there devoting because they believe in your cause, it makes you want to be donor-centric it makes you want to be a good friend in a way, you know, if you have a friend who’s, incredibly supportive and thoughtful, who remembers your birthday always asks you about important things in your life, you know, who shows up at your party with a great hostess gift every time, and then you do nothing in return, you’re not being a good friend, so that’s like being donor-centric if the donor is so generous to you, but you’re not respectful of his or her wishes, you know? You’re just not doing the right thing, there’s such a thing is doing the right thing so well, where should we look specifically to determine whether we are doing the right thing? Well, our marketing communications our, which includes the website print and, you know, let’s, let’s, drill down to some some of the things we should be looking at. Specifically, i think probably where to start is financial accountability that’s also kind of a buzz word these days, i think, but making sure that you’re letting your daughter so and this is the drier stuff again, this is the getting your house in order, making sure that your donor’s know where their money is going and making sure that you’re respecting where they told you they wanted it to go. You know, there’s some great donors who say here’s, some money, i don’t care what you do, it could be operating costs, it can be salaries, and then there are other donors who say no, i really wanted to go to the specific program and we have to make sure that we’re being a countable to the donors on and i liked your work too respectful, yeah, respectful of what their wishes when when they do don’t make a designation right back to the friendship example, you know, it’s just what’s the right thing in the friendship. In the exchange you mentioned website it’s a great point, you know, there are all of these charity rating organizations now, including charney navigator, who look at two things they look at your your finances so they’ll read through your audited financial statements in your nine nineties. They also want to see certain things posted on your website, and that includes your audits and your nine nineties on dure leadership staff. And you have to really be telling donors how you run your organization and not be afraid of letting them, and i think we’re often afraid that donors will find something out about us that they don’t like and that’s what marketing communications has forts it’s for telling the story, but you really do have to be pretty open with your donors. I think in the more sophisticated days where we live, so making sure that that stuff is up on your website is great for ratings on charity navigator, but again, it’s just the right thing to do. Also interesting. Parallel about not not fearing letting donors in. I think of a parallel with social media know what? Everybody’s got a facebook page now, but the early fear was what if donors post comments that we don’t like, right? And there haven’t been many instances of that, and when it does happen, it’s an open communication and if it’s, of course, if it’s blatant and doesn’t belong, that can always be eliminated. Deleted but but that’s that’s the that’s, the that’s, the rare rare exception yeah, no it’s it’s a conversation, right? It’s it’s a dialogue, and so we shouldn’t fear the openness. And now facebook pages are rampant but seven hundred wherever five or seven years ago probono heimans many, seven, five, four, five years ago, the fear was when we can’t let donors post on our our our new facebook page, they might say things we don’t like, right? Yeah, reputational risk is obviously huge and the problem with the google accessible world right? Is that you confined if there was a faux pas non-profits passed it’s just like any person it’s going to be on the internet? So if some risk to your effort, reputation occurs it. Lasts forever, so it makes a lot of sense that we’re apprehensive, but i think you’re making a great point if someone comes out, whether it’s on your facebook page or if they send you a private message and says i’m really worried about some aspect of your business practices, i’m really worried about your program design it’s a great opportunity to be able to say, you know what? This is how we really do it. Let’s, let’s have a conversation. So yeah, i mean, it’s a lot to manage its a lot more to manage than we’ve ever had, but i agree, it’s a good opportunity to be out there on that person who’s saying that to you cares about you? Yeah, if they didn’t care, they were just written you off and said they’re screwing it up, you know? I’m not gonna bother, but they do care enough to to learn and maybe and they’re even trying to help. Yeah, and just to bring it back to donor intention to kind of tar tar topic, if someone cares and they have a concern and you address it, you probably have that person for life, right? I mean, you if you’re honest, if you’re open, if you’re thoughtful about how you’re telling your story, you’re going to be able to hang onto two donors and it’s better in the long run for your business. What else should we be doing? Internal e-giving getting our own house in order? Welchlin look, so i think once you’re kind of clear they are out there that you’re financially accountable than a lot of what i encountered when i was looking at stewardship again, i’m using the us fundez and fundez an example, but there’s this’s applicability. Other places, too, is how motivated staff were to retain donors, so sometimes that way organisations put together their cash report or the way that they recognize fundraisers might recognize acquisition more than it recognizes retention. So just making sure that you’re you’re making sure that it’s really a priority for your staff and they’re being recognized and evaluated on the right, the right kind of metrics, right attention as well as acquisition? Yeah, exactly and internally, a lot of organizations have started to measure their retention, but they don’t necessarily measure upgrades or donorsearch atis faction and i’m just going to name check here because this is not something that i thought of this is actually from karen osborne of the osborne group, and these are her recommendations specifically to measure retention upgrades and donorsearch atis faction as a wayto make sure that you have a healthy stewardship for donor relations program going on, so some organizations are not even measuring retention necessarily. So that’s a great place to start, but measuring how often you’re moving, the donors up the pipeline that’s also really helpful, and then whether or not donors think that your mission is crucial whether they feel that you’re one of their top five organizations, how committed are they to you that reflects on how you’re communicating with them? How do you how do you judge these things? Well, if you have a donor database again, i’m talking about a little bit of a bigger organization. You can actually run reports on these kinds of things. You can set them up in an ornament. Sorry. That’s what i meant. Donors feel that your mission is critical. Are you one of their top five charities? That’s gotta be done by survey conversation. Yeah. So if you want to do, you can do a doner satisfaction survey with smaller donors, you can do it online, but you can also sit down when you’re talking about major donors are board members you, khun do individual interviews with them where you’re really not asking them? So why i called the session howto ask when you’re not asking, i hope everyone doesn’t show up and think, oh good, i don’t have to solicit anymore marcie’s going to tell me how it’s more, what are the moves that you’re doing in between? The asks that are making the donor feel really good and really invested in you? So sitting down and talking to them about what they think about the organization without asking them to write a check is could be a good move, you know that old saying if you want to ask for money, ask for advice, it’s like that? Yeah, so you would do it face to face or you could do, you know, an online survey or something like that and agree maybe to do it every two or three years, you know what i’m talking about really takes a lot of resource is and not every small organization, so now i’m a one. Person shop at my new job on dh. This kind of thing is probably going to be a little bit more challenging than it was when i had more research. Resource is at a bigger place, so there’s that, too. But you’re going, you’re going to find a way. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Now, so one person fund-raising shop, you are talking to donors a lot. Yeah, so? So some of these questions could weave their way into your daily conversations with donors. Maybe not everyone, right? But you can sample, right? Yeah. And one of the things that i’m doing so there was ah, one year gap between development directors at the ralph lauren center. So some of the things that i’m doing there are sort of resurrecting some relationships that we had before. And i’m making sure that there’s no stone unturned if you’ve given money to us before, if you cared about us before, i’m going to try to bring you back. You can’t be successful all the time. You’re gonna lose some donors. People’s circumstances change. It might have nothing to do with your organization. But it’s really important to make sure that you’re being very methodical about renewing let’s let’s, switch to the more fun the donor side of good donorsearch worship. Yeah, so i had a great experience again at the u s fund for unicef. Where i put together are a major donor e-giving society now abel he managed by another colleague at the us fund-raising donors we decided to talk to our board members about what they might like to see. So when you structure a major donor giving society, you’re basically putting together a list of tiered benefits and that’s also an important part of putting your house in order. What are you offering to donors? A different levels is a consistent who are the donors that your leadership and board members need to be involved with? And you have plans for howto steward those donors. So with us one farina’s have is lucky they have a lot of board members, so they have a national board and then seven regional board. So some people may say that’s very unlucky that’s true. Thankfully, it was thankfully was fortunate for the for the us fund. These board members are great. I’m a board relations person, so right, i think that’s great and some people think it’s a nightmare. Now i have an eight person board, so i’ve, you know, i’ve gone on, but they have about probably about one hundred twenty five port members between all those groups, and we did some surveying of them and i’m not saying that these air the answers you would get from every a group of board members, but this is the kind of thing that, like on your terrible worst day, you just think about it and feel good. These board members were like, i don’t care about recognition that’s fine, i just want to be more connected to the mission. I just want to talk, teo, the workers in the field and really understand what you do. They were looking for these really meaningful engagement opportunities. It wasn’t like, oh, yeah, i’d like a tote bag or i’d really like to meet beyonce when i’m named checking her, maybe she’ll call me, uh, you know, they really wanted more programmatic depth, and they also wanted to network and connect with each other, so we tried to build benefits that felt a little bit less transactional and more i’m kind of life affirming. Like what? What? What were a couple of examples? Well, you know, again, this is not something that everyone can offer, but travel to the field is an example at a certain ok, but a small organization, maybe maybe it’s not travel to on exotic country, but maybe welcome to the to our office. Yeah. To the place where we’re serving people that you’ve never seen yu know we internally take it for granted because it’s on the floor below us who’s down the hall, but our donors have never seen it however modest you may think it is. It might mean the world to the donor to be invited. Absolutely, i mean at the ralph lauren center. So i work on site at the cancer center it’s in harlem on one hundred twenty fourth and madison, i’ll be honest, a lot of donors don’t go up to that neighborhood very often because of the involvement of ralph lauren. The center is really beautiful looking, and i love walking in there every day and seeing the patients in the in the waiting room, not it’s, a very unhappy time for the patients, but i feel really connected to them into the mission, and we do a lot of site visits at the ralph lauren center. Before unicef, i worked at a education non-profit called learning leaders, and we did school volunteerism, so we used to do a lot of site visits to schools, and that was great. And whenever i was feeling kind of disconnected. Elearning leaders, i would get up and go to a school and be like, okay, this is why i’m doing this, so yeah, the travel with units of the little sexier right, every charity has got someplace that you can come. Yes, absolutely. Or some meeting that you can come to that you haven’t previously been invited too. Yeah, something is going on at your charity. I just went teo, a special events training session at robin hood. So the ralph lauren center is a robin, but grantee on the special event staff was sharing that their donors love to come to their office and just see where the work is done. So just just the administrative, like, ministerial type officers. Yeah, i mean, the stuff that the people who work there take for granted every day that has no interest. I mean, it has interested them, but it would never think of inviting an outsider. But you got it. We got stop thinking like that. They’re not outsiders, they’re insiders, and we want to welcome them. Welcome to the workplace. Yeah, you do it one day a month, who have a bunch of invite a bunch of people and have a breakfast and maybe you know that that half a day a month becomes mohr donor-centric yeah, then the other nineteen and a half workdays that you have in the book. Yeah, absolutely. And i think that’s why i found the responses from the board members of the u s funds so encouraging, they were saying exactly what you’re saying. We want to know how you do your work. We want to really drill down with you. We’re not necessarily looking for a lots of glitzy stuff we want we want the day to day and it kind of relates financial accountability also fixing your bike so it doesn’t fall off table, right? I’m i’m getting violent with my mike. I’m better that way. Yeah, although we’re close enough, you could. But if you should appreciate, you’re not breaking down that you haven’t done anything. Yeah, it’s been it’s been ok? Not feeling your mind myself across the line either of this relates back to financial accountability again, if we’re afraid to let donors in, then they’re not going to come closer to us and we want them to be closer. That’s not every single donor, but the important. Ones and the ones who care. So yeah. That’s. The interesting part that was so us fund for unicef. It was travel abroad. Make clear that it could be traveling to your administrative office. Yes. What else? What else did you do on the outside? It could be also in individualized reporting. So back to how donors want their money spent. You know, a lot of us do kind of ah, general operating support report, which is okay, but at certain levels, you really want to make sure that you’re doing an individualized report and, you know a lot, i think most of us do this, but that was included because unicef being such a big place, sometimes people were getting a more generalized report and not feeling like we were really drilling down into the program that they wanted to support. Then we did a couple of other things, like at the higher levels dinner hosted by a boardmember dinner hosted by the global unicef executive director. So that thing that i said about celebrities before a lot of people think that tony lake who’s, the executive director of unicef globally, is a celebrity in the world of you. Know, international charitable work people really want to meet mr lake and he’s more of an academic than he is anything else but that’s really interesting to donors. So we did travel to see unicef’s work in the field, and then unicef has some other interesting international properties to visit there’s, a research center in florence there’s a supply division in copenhagen, so travel to those places also, which is again inner workings. Okay, way covered travel. Yeah, but but your phone is ringing. I think it was beyonce. I heard a phone ringing. This is more important. I mean, i’ll get to her after i agree. You’re everything in the world in your life has brought you to this moment. Exactly don’t want to surrender it to be on no side. It might have been someone else’s phone. I heard that you could actually be calling. I always keep mine on site could be calling somebody else. I’m sorry, it’s. All right, you’re next on the list. I’m sure i’m sure i’m sure up. What else? Way put on there. So receptions before big events for having a gallery. You don’t spend a lot of money to add a small reception before you’ve already got the space, the caterer is already coming. Yeah, marginal cost of that before or after reception, especially when you’re putting on a bigger event on that gets to the donors wanting to network with each other and to know each other. They don’t always get to be in the same place either. And, you know, a boardmember meeting or another kind of meeting isn’t always the best place to network. So something like that, which is a lot of my my work is planned e-giving consulting way. Do a lot of those vips receptions before the larger event? Right? Another thing that doesn’t cost much is v i p seating at an event? Yeah, it costs nothing. It cost the couple strips of masking tape. Yeah, mask often area and and have vips seating for an event you’ve already paid for the tickets. For you’ve already got the seats rope off ten or twelve seats for vips. People feel like the world way because the i p c yeah, and, you know, what’s funny about that. We’re already doing it right when you think about it. When you’re doing your gallus eating, you are putting your most important people in the front, but they don’t know that we’re not revealing our methods. So if you make that a little more open and say by the way we’re going to, we’re gonna give you the best seats here this important, i think, you know, we’re continuing on that theme of tell your donors what you’re doing, and it might make them feel good, so yeah, great. Ok. Ok. What else? We still have a couple minutes left. Marcie. What? What else? What else can we talk about? Well, we could talk about volunteer opportunities. Maybe. I think that that is a big saying. That’s emerging volunteers helping with stewardship donors having volunteer opportunities to make you feel more engaged. Because i think it’s emerging as a theme because corporate supporters often are asking while how can my employees come for a day and do something and it’s a little bit difficult for some organizations to figure out how to do that? I had the luck. This is back. Tio. Sometimes stewardship moves are a little easier at one place or another. A little more obvious. When i worked at a volunteer organization, i got a lot of my donors and my board members through a pipeline of one particular volunteer program, which was an art program, and it just attracted the kind of volunteers who were also able to be donors. Not everybody has that. So ralph lauren center does a lot of stuff with our physical plants, having people come in and paint having people come in and plant flowers outside. You know, i just think it’s important to make sure that you have at least a couple just up your sleeve and ready to go a couple of volunteer opportunities in case either of corporate supporter asks or, you know, a group of boardmember xero group of donors say, i don’t really feel like writing another check. What can i do so that’s, you know, i think that’s big and a lot of donors also want to do things that involve their children and family. Family philanthropy is such a big emerging topic, so if you can think of a program or volunteer opportunity where people can bring their children that’s also huge, we have just a couple of minutes left. What about the board’s role in the stewardship? Yeah, that’s a really good question. Okay, we’ll come up with one. Twenty. Only took me about twenty four minutes. Well, i mean, this is like a house in order. It’s, you know, it’s, the more kind of the more boring stuff. So i had mentioned that bored hosted annual dinner could be an interesting big storage it move. Thank you calls. Thank you. Notes all those kinds of things. I hear that from a lot of guests. Just get the board together, do it for an hour before a meeting. Right? And they’re going to get a great feeling from it themselves. And you’re just right. Just calling to say thank you, thank you. Nothing else. Don’t do don’t do anything more, you know, we’re not asking for anything more. Just calling to say thank you. And and a donor has gotten a call from from a pipe and the organization it’s a boardmember it’s really big it’s big you people. A lot of people in the international world love teo support the carter center because the carter center does great work, but also jimmy carter calls you. I’ve had a bunch of donors like president carter called me. Okay? So not everybody. Has jimmy carter, but it’s still important to hear from, you know, a leadership voice if you much you mentioned the executive director? Yeah, who’s not not really thought of as a celebrity in in in way, popular media, but within the organization within that mission. He’s very well known. Yeah, so it could just be somebody in your office. Exactly. And also, i didn’t mention loyalty recognition. I think calling donors and thanking them for gift that they’ve just given is fantastic. Don’t take that off of your roster, but five years in a row, ten years in a row recalling their thing irrespective of the size of the raft. Is that kind of loyalty? Yeah. Recognition for for the history. Yeah, how gracious and thoughtful is that if you just say thank you for giving to us for five consecutive years, we really appreciate it. That’s it and we didn’t care how much it was. Marcie, thank you very much. We have to leave it there. Thank you. My pleasure. Marcie brenholz. She is director of development for the ralph lauren center for cancer care and prevention. Thank you very much. More. See again. Thank you. You’re listening. To tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen. Live listener love we got fort lee, new jersey, brooklyn, new york, jersey city, new jersey hutchisson in new jersey might that’s when my dad was born and raised in greenville hospital and has to live on mcadoo have in jersey city, but you probably that’s old jersey city, new york, new york, washington, d c live listener love to everyone let’s, go abroad paris, france bourgeois iran is with us live listener love to you. So is toronto, ontario and king city, ontario in canada, of course, tokyo connie chua beijing and she on in china. Ni hao and seoul, korea on your haserot we have a couple of others too, and they’ll be later on generosity siri’s you know them because they host five k runs and walks and i talk about him often two weeks ago. I am seed. They’re new york city event. Last week they were in philadelphia. Nine charities in philadelphia came together, raised seventy five thousand dollars, had a very fun event. The key is none of the nine are big enough to have hosted their own five k run walk. It just wouldn’t have enough people participating, but when the community comes together, great things can happen. Seventy five thousand dollars raised that’s what generosity siri’s does puts charities together in these events, and they have them coming up in new jersey and miami. Devlin is the ceo. Please tell him you’re from non-profit radio you could talk to dave lynn it’s seven one eight five o six nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com i thank you very much for supporting non-profit radio. We’re almost at ten thousand listeners each week very close and i thank you very much for being with us. There isn’t a thanksgiving show next week, so i’m giving my thanks this week to you very much for your support. I have to give a special mention to our outstanding monthly contributors maria semple, jean takagi and amy sample ward. They are so generous with their expertise for the benefit of all of us very, very grateful for them as well. Again, no show next week. This week i thank you very, very much for your support of non-profit radio. And there is a thank you video at tony martignetti dot com that’s tony’s take two for friday twenty first of november forty sixth show of the year here’s my interview with stacy palmer and glenn mcdonald about what the wealthy are thinking. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen we are at the marriott marquis hotel in times square, new york city with me now are stacy palmer and glenn mcdonald. Their workshop topic is whatthe wealthy. What are the wealthy thinking now? It’s a question, not a statement. We’re going to answer that question. Stacy palmer is editor of the chronicle of philanthropy and glenn mcdonald is president of wealth and giving forum stacy glen welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Pleasure to have you, glenn let’s, start with you. What? What? What is this topical? About? What? What? What are the wealthy thinking now? Well, the first thing i want to say as a preface is that we like to categorize the wealthy as a homogenous group, but in fact, that’s really not fair of anybody are very diverse. I’m just like any cohort group that you would mention they spend this political spectrum young and old. You know that wealth can be minute very quickly, especially in silicon valley and and, interestingly enough with on that topic, you know, it is young generation that is spurring new trends. E-giving um, and the number one trend right now is thinking about their philanthropy across everything they do not just in the czechs, they write, meaning how they invest their portfolio and what sort of for-profit cos they invest in ones that they believed that they could be transformation on society. And i think that’s really the number one trend that i see on day are shifting the thinking of their parents and grand parents to be quite frank. And when you say the young, are we thinking of people in their thirties, you know, early, early twenties coming out of college and thinking about the business voices they make the careers, they want to be involved with, the types of companies they want to work for, they want their doing good and doing well and making money to be integrated into one it’s no longer separate, and i think that’s a trend that’s here to stay, and i’m sure we’ve read, you know, in the press in the chronicle philanthropy wall street journal that socially responsible investing and impact and interesting are considered alongside of the donations and grantmaking that foundations are making now. Right now. Stacey, what do you have to add? Early on, i agree that’s one of the big trends, the other thing that some people are starting to talk about is whether there’s a whole third wave of philanthropy coming among the young and whether mark zuckerberg really kick that off and he’s not even thirty yet. Ah, but by giving so much money to the silicon valley community foundation rather than setting up his own foundation, he said a model for the other ways of thinking about giving, not institution building, but really saying i want to do this differently and others may be following his model. So i think we are seeing a pretty big shift. Yeah, glen a third wave. I agree wholeheartedly, i think even before mark zuckerberg duitz warren buffett said, look, rather than build a new private foundation, i’m gonna give my money to bill gates. I respect him. I trust him. I like his work. I like his team he’s built. Why start over? I think, you know, station. I would probably agree that the proliferation of new foundations and new non-profits when a lot of great organizations have already been built, small and large, and everything in between already available to donors and in some respects, by giving to the community foundation what market burghdoff burgers saying, the staff is there, there’s, a lot of programs already in place, and we can be flexible because the community foundation structures allowed for flexibility, not only in the way they given the timing e-giving, but also in the number of programs that are available now. Those watching video will note that the room got darker, durney martignetti non-profit radio, a cz continuing. The overhead lights are flickering, a little bit of that coming on off, but it makes no difference. We persevere here non-profit radio, absolute. Nothing stops us earthquakes, bring them on. We will continue. We are not leaving this set until until we flush this out. Let’s see, let’s, talk a little more stacy about this this third wave, what else? What else characterizes this? You know, i think in addition to things like impact investing, we also see growing interest in merging political giving and philanthropic e-giving and thinking about the various ways that you can use your money to influence change. And of course, as came pain finance limits are basically going away. It’s easier for the wealthy to think about doing that when you think about the scale of their political giving compared to philanthropy, it’s so much smaller anyway, but they’re definitely looking at both ways to do things. I think that’s got good sides and bad sides. The good side is that they’re getting engaged to the bad side is people are starting to worry about whether the plutocrats are setting policy and are starting to hear more about that. I think that could kick back on philanthropy in some pretty serious way, so we have to talk about, you know, sort of are people going to be accused of of trying to sway public policy through their philanthropy and the wealthy, setting the setting, the agenda, setting the research research? Priorities indeed. But the flip side of that, of course, is that we all know that you can’t create change unless you change some systems with everybody influence if he’s been talking about that for so long, so in some ways you would think that they might be applauding the billion years for finally getting more engaged in public policy. But yet we don’t see that going to see you nodding a lot. Yes, absolutely agree, and i think that, you know, in some respects, there is some advocacy and political influence of the wealthy that are looking to take care of themselves by not having more taxes or limiting wreck regulations on businesses, and i think they’re the coke brothers are big example and tom style on the other side of the fence would say, well, yes, but i’m advocating on behalf of those who don’t have but you know that the challenge there is that while i think tom’s tires is well intentioned, that sometimes the billionaire’s advocating on behalf of those that are less fortunate don’t really see the issues at the depth that the underbelly really does and that they should be advocating for themselves and the only way to do that is, you know, frankly, this is getting bleeding out of philanthropy and into a political commentary is through true democracy. And so i think there is an issue and stacy’s spot on and saying, you know, by philanthropy and the ability to raise dot org’s toe, advocate and influence the political process, the challenges that will philanthropy get, you know, a little bit of a black spot when there’s so much goodness like in this room, you go upstairs, there’s a thousand organizations that are doing are wonderful things that nobody hears about it. And you don’t want the non-profit charitable sector and philanthropy world to be viewed as to to link tio, you know, just the wealthy influencing the way the political game happens because the real truth is it’s so much goes on underneath that’s. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Stacy looked like you wanted to add. Well, and i also think part of it too is that there’s so much influenza b that doesn’t have anything to do with politics. And so that is we need to bear keep things in context. Yeah. What else? What else are you planning to your session? Is this afternoon, what else is on your minds for the for the audience? I think one of the things we’ll be talking about is the different ways to appeal to today’s donors and to talk about what kinds of things draw them in it’s not enough just to say that they’re motivated by a particular cause, but what kind of language do you use, teo, get them engaged, you know, do you need to talk about financial metrics when you’re appealing to an investor? Do you need to talk about how you’re fixing things when you’re talking to an entrepreneur? I was talking to a wealth advisor the other day who said she was advising an ophthalmologist, and he looks at everything through what people aren’t seeing because that’s what he does all day, you know, and so trying to think about donors in those ways, um, and what their professional obligations are, that that might shape what it is that they want to hear about how you draw them in and get them engaged. So we’ll talk about tips for doing that so segmenting absolute across your constituencies will want to share and share some of the some. Of those tips, but let’s not hold out on listeners. Well, again, i agree with stacy. You know, you know, the rail challenges that i say that that every individual who is a donor giver investor in for-profit solutions to social issues has his or her own own formula for wanting to give, and it involves the head and the heart and summer, morehead oriented and rational thinking about and they focus on outcomes and measurement more than the emotional joy of that comes sometimes from giving and everything in between. And i think that to stacey’s point and wealth advisers have the same challenge in managing money. They have to figure out what makes the person tick. And i think the most important thing and i think everybody in this room would agree, is what’s most important is the discovery processes, the listening and then the appeal khun b couched in the framework of the individual not in some standard way of of soliciting money asked the listening, listening whether that’s done through social media channels right at our one to one conversation with a survey. Yeah, i think that’s that’s something that i hear on the show often. Is that we’re not active listeners. And you love listeners. I have read of nine thousand of them. I do love them, and i listened to them. But they are sometimes not listening the way they need to be less exactly to their various constituents, whether that’s vendors on one hand or donors on the other. Yeah, someone’s trying to watch that. Okay. Background noise, bleeding in. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked. And naomi levine from new york universities heimans center on philanthropy tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Duitz one further thought i’d be interested in stacy’s perspective on this is i’m just getting to know her. Um, that comes to mind is, is that i’ve seen that the most committed philanthropists that really followed through on a long haul on and staying with heimans developing a strategy and then really staying through with an organization or an innovative not-for-profits leader that’s starting something new or social issues to address is is the ones who really do stay the course and have great impact and have patients for the outcomes. The right outcomes are those that have been introspective and been thought and taking a step back and not do something that’s trendy, but something that really means something to them or their families, but that takes a certain kind of investment and investors who are in for the long term and damp latto had a lot to say about that correct perfect example. Stacey, wait, we all know that one of the things that goes wrong in philanthropy all the time is that people follow the trendy they want to start new organizations and get excited about the next new thing instead of staying for the long haul. And in some ways, what we need to change the culture of philanthropy is to say, there are some of these organizations that are doing great work already if they just had more money and more support from their board members, they could do even more on and that’s not to say that the organization shouldn’t get started, but i think when people come into philanthropy, they just get excited about i’ve got this innovative idea, please back me instead of saying, wait a minute, who’s already doing terrific work and how can i get involved in the board and that’s? One of the things that non-profits really need is committed born members who will get involved and do that kind of thing is, well, it’s not enough just to write a check there’s some sentiment that the, uh, the passion takes over and r r system allows people to start a non-profit as long as they could meet some some not very high threshold requirements from the irs and that we never end up with a proliferation of charities duplicating overlapping rather than the person going through an existing charity and saying if you don’t have an opening for me on the board? Can we can i partner some other way with you exactly about this proliferation of non-profits means that you see that hurting us? Well, i think the stacey’s point at the beginning of this session that, you know, mark zuckerberg and and i added, you know, maura buffet to the mix and there’s more and more that are saying no, that isn’t the right thing, and i think they’re setting that example altum that others are starting to take a step back and ask that question, which is a good trend, and i also think there’s some consulting firms that are starting to encourage non-profits to think about partnerships and merging and consolidating programs into one and gaining scale and leverage across that that’s starting to happen. It’s we need more of it, and some of it was by necessity and some in our great recessional that’s, exactly the wayto nine crisis forced with lower funding and some issues that even someone doubt doubt organizations, you know, that poor performance on their operating budget suffered that that forced the issue. But it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a trend that starting and what we need more of it. You know, no question, yeah, we have an op ed in our current issue that’s actually arguing for that and saying that, you know, really there needs to be more of mergers and acquisitions business in the new non-profit field thie incentives are totally different than in business, but we need to find ways to think about ways for strong organizations to work together, not just because the financial crisis caused it, but for reasons to extend the mission and to think about it that way. And sometimes, you know, we were just talking before about board members it’s often the board that gets in the way of a merger because they don’t want to give up their boardmember ship, we’ve got to find some other incentives for them because there’s plenty of roles for them to get involved. There are precious few consultants i’ve had one on sabrina lamb, i think sabrina lamp consultant’s doing latto advising around merger, acquisition and or even just joint ventures, partnerships and not always for fund-raising purposes, but for a longer time, you know, just mission that mission achievement, there’s that that overlap is, uh, can be hurt can’t be hurting us. Back-up what other? Any other strategies around the the topics of listening? I think one of the things that many fundraisers find challenging is that even if they are the ones who are doing the listening, getting the ceo, getting other people on the staff, teo do that listening is much more of a culture shift home. And so one of the messages i think well osili talk about today is how to engage the chief executive and other people in the organization to see that talking to what it don’t cares about doesn’t mean sacrificing your ethics or, you know, getting in the way of letting the donor dictate the mission it’s just saying, how do you talk to them in a language that they understand and that appeals to them? And maybe they do actually have some good ideas about how you run your organization differently that were worth listening to, but i think you know so often, that’s one of the challenges fundraisers have is they get it, but not everybody in the organization corrected. On the flip side, you might be talking to a donor who is really it’s, a patriarchal matriarch, or maybe even the son. Of daughter of a wealthy family on dh sometimes the whole family’s going to be part of the decision process. So it makes that dynamic and challenge a little bit more complicated, because sometimes family members they seemingly be on the same page till the time comes for the check to be ripping and then there’s some symbol, wait a minute, that’s. Ah, that doesn’t really have it is not in concert with the mission of our private foundation and one orders yes, and the other going there’s no, and so look fundez that that’s why this is a profession i mean fund-raising is a huge challenge. You’ve gotto work the organization on the one hand and step, as stacy pointed out, on the other hand, sometimes the dynamics of the emotional dynamics of one individual donors end or the family dynamics associated with that donor is makes it a interesting challenge. If we’re seriously interested in listening, then we have to be asking questions the answers to which we need to be willing to hear couldn’t and they’re often not, and they’re often not couldn’t have said it better. I mean, you know, that’s why i mentioned the discovery process if that’s not part of the question set, whose else involved in this decision process? I know you have a private foundation to have professionals on the part of the private foundation that are going to influence this. Do you have other family members come teo going to come and weigh in on the decision? And should we be meeting with them and and so forth? There was absolute a lot of times, you know, for smaller and maybe even midsize shops they you need often, i think, an outside adviser to help facilitate this, this this process and a lot of the smaller shops, you know, they don’t just don’t have the wherewithal to bring someone in to facilitate a conversation on the board or conversation among among donors, you know that, and they and they’re so insular in their work that they’re not able to ask these these challenging questions. I think one of the things all non-profits no matter what size they are can seek out is professionals who want to give their time to facilitate something like that. Most people would like to help in organization in various ways, and, you know, we don’t think about the sort of skilled volunteering enough in the ways that people can help out. So i would say, you know, an organization of any size can really reach out to people who can help in that process on dh should be creative and thinking about that rather than just asking for money because you’re right, sometimes you need more that kind of coaching and that sort of thing. Clint, i think one of the things you talked about in our call was thinking about mentors for people who so, you know, thinking about the way people in their profession want to meet other people in their profession and that that’s a good way for non-profits to think about how to find new donors and volunteers, you had a couple of a couple of things on that was, well, we believe the weapon giving form we believe in pierre learning, so wait really exist to encourage greater philanthropy and in that regard now our sweet spot is emerging philanthropists. But we have other philanthropist comments tell their stories about how they developed their own form of forgiving and struggles and challenges. They asked themselves about how much to give and what’s the direction of my giving and howto i involve my family and how do i ensure that when i’m i’m not going to get dahna fatigue and so forth and so on? And it’s really? I think peer-to-peer learning in any field of endeavors is hugely important. That’s why there’s a lot of, you know, organizations like young presidents organization for ceos and so forth and so on, but even for non-profit professionals, i mean there’s a great a couple of organisations, they’re just i don’t if you heard of catch a fire. Oh, sure, back when stacey was talking about going to mention catch afire volunteermatch right, so in order to get, you know, if you need an accounting accounting or you need your having board challenges or you’re having, you know, they will find professionals who could help come in and advise non-profits on those issues and challenging than one new one i just heard about was inspiring capital that i mean, really just organize this year to help non-profits think about intellectual capital and capabilities they developed that might be a source of revenue stream because they developed this expertise, you know, i give you one. Example, a year up national, you know, organization that helped inner city youth find a pathway to self sustaining, you know, income and a great career and, you know, they become very well known, but they’ve really developed over the past fifteen years a great capability to only train young adults in inner cities, but also to stop thing properly and be on dso, you know, they have a model that’s that can compete with robert half, so they’re, you know, thinking about a revenue stream off of that that can help fund the organization, and i think more and more non-profits we’re gonna start doing the same thing, stacy, we have just a minute or so left one leave ah, parting thought something we haven’t we haven’t talked about that you plan to share one of the things that is clear and giving trends overall is that the affluent are the ones that are powering givings growth in america. We just saw e-giving yusa report come out and were it not for the wealthy, i don’t think we would have seen the good numbers that we saw so making sure that every organization of every size reaches out to these individuals is really important rather than focusing on things like special events and other kinds of things, i think almost every organization has the capacity to get what is for them a major gift, and there really should be thinking about that and important for them for then everybody doesn’t need to be going after seven, seven, eight, nine figure give exactly a ten thousand dollar gift might be a big gift for you. Go for it. Excellent. We’re gonna leave right there. Well, but i love that alright. Stacy palmer, editor of the chronicle of philanthropy, and glenn mcdonald, president of wealth and giving forum thank you both very much. Thank you for happiness. Thank you. Turning my pleasure it’s tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand fourteen thank you so much for being with us. Thanks to everybody at fund-raising day two thousand fourteen next week happy thanksgiving. I hope you enjoy your time very much with loved ones and friends take the time. Enjoy take a nap over the long weekend. I’m a big fan of naps indulge no show next week if you missed any part of today’s show, find it on. Tony martignetti non-profit radio no finding on tony martignetti dot com non-profit radio just rolls off my tongue, it’s it’s in my sleeping. Then i’m saying it. You’ll find info at tony martignetti dot com generosity siri’s, good things happening when small charities work together. Generosity, siri’s, dot com. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. This week’s line producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell. Social marketing on the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit video is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein. You will be next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Go out and be great. Heimans what’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a, m or p m so that’s when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to dio they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Hani door is the founder of idealist. I took two or three years for foundation staff sort of dane toe. Add an email address card. It was like it was phone. This email thing is right and that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of offline as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gifts. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing those hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell. You put money in a situation and invested and expected to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.
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Nina Chanpreet Kaur: Trust, Mistrust and Betrayal
These by-products of our relationships with donors, bosses and peers can make your success or break your heart. Nina Chanpreet Kaur, organizational consultant and doctor of social problems, shares her research on trust.
Maria Semple: Why The Rich Give
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. We have a listener of the week build driscoll he’s, a disaster non-profit executive, and he takes non-profit radio with him when he travels love that bill, you’ll find him in milton, massachusetts, or the twin cities in minnesota on twitter. He’s at b driscoll j r there must be an s r but he’s. Probably not on twitter. Congratulations, bill, and thank you very much for your support of non-profit radio. We’ve got a new online station joining us k s c r out of pomona, california welcome very good to have you with us and i’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the embarrassment of submarine dermatitis if i even heard rumors that you had missed today’s show trust, mistrust and betrayal the’s byproducts of our relationships with donors, bosses and peers could make your success or break your heart dahna chanpreet power core studies the issues around trust and why the rich give maria semple is back she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder she’ll walk us through the twenty fourteen us trust study of high net worth philanthropy on tony’s take two it’s amazing when charities come together and work together responsive by generosity siri’s hosting multi charity five k runs and walks i am seed. They’re new york city event just this past weekend, and i’m very pleased that nina chanpreet core is with me in the studio. She’s, an organizational consultant and social psychologist by training doctor of social problems and educator her work sheds light on what underlies drives, motivates and manages effective change in the world. She was the founder of kitchen table community teaching cooking classes to understand how food can build trust across ethnicities and religions, nina lives for the tender moments of truth and compassion, clear seeing eyes, hands reaching out to help arms embracing in understanding. You can follow nina on twitter she’s at nina chanpreet nina chanpreet court welcome to the studio. Thank you so much for having me. Tony it’s. A big pleasure. Thank you. I love the you know the way you describe yourself as living for tender moments of truth and compassion. That’s very touching. Well, it’s, very important in the world we live in today, i think it’s difficult. To ah have the experience of trust. I mean, in many ways, there’s very little we can trust the ingredient labels on the food we eat and the information we’re getting from the media. It’s challenging to understand what’s really that’s not really what’s what we can trust andi, i think there’s a lot of wounded nous and i rolled around it interesting that you mentioned the first example you give his food labels well, always right, you’re you must read ingredient labels like i do, so i don’t try don’t i am one of those people going to bother? No, no, no, i’m very meticulous. I don’t trust any ingredient label myself. I’m writing a fiction i mean, michael short work of fiction, right? My my research on trust emerged out of my own personal experiences and in which i found myself not trusting anything or anyone and really having to examine that and understanding what it is like in an organizational system and what it is like internally as well, not trusting anyone or anything that that that that’s a cold place to be a lonely place. It’s a cold lonely i’m exaggerating, but but you understand you know we’re going to actually define i’m going to ask you later, you know, defined trust and betrayal and things, but i feel like i’m a person who trust at the outset before i even know somebody i sort of i trust until someone gives me a reason not to trust, um, i think i’m going down the wrong path. Well, seymour, about that okay, let’s, take a business interaction. I just on the strength of a phone call, i trust my intuition. Yeah, i’m going to use the word trust or rely on my intuition, and the person seems like a good person like they they they ah, can be. They will be someone who will follow through on their commitments, whatever commitments we’re talking about making together. And when they give me their word, i can rely on it. Um, someone you know and i draw these conclusions on the strength of maybe a ten minute phone call. Maybe i’ve never let’s use the example where lots of times i’ve never met the person face-to-face it’s. Just a phone call, and i feel that, uh, that i can i can count on them. I can rely on them. I can trust them. That’s just my my nature. Well, one of the parts about trust that i research was the unconscious elements of trust and what’s really going on underneath the surface. So while consciously we may say, oh, you know, i trust this person there’s always something else going on under the surface. And i think we do need to challenge the idealization of trust because buy-in doing the research that i kept breeding things that trust is so important. Trust is so important trust is so important, and mistrust is actually equally important i mean, scientific research and, you know, antibiotics and so many scientific inventions were based off of not trusting something and seeing something in the road saying, wait, let me let me rethink that. Do i really trust what i’m seeing? Let me let me study this right there’s so many inventions in the world, scientific and non scientific that were really premised on mistrusting or trying to look a little bit further. So the idea that trust is that simple or that it’s, the most important thing on dh is easy to achieve, i think it’s something that i challenge because i think it is more complex than that. Similarly, i think mistrust and betrayal can be equally important, if not more, in some cases. Okay, so something more going on? All right, i’m glad we have. Well, there’s always more going on. Isn’t there? Okay, i don’t know. I you think about these things and study them more than i do. You know, i gave you my my approach toward it. Let’s. Define some terms. So since you’re the researcher in this, what how do you define trust? Well, there’s it’s a challenging question to answer because i think it it’s so subjective. But i do think that trust is not it’s it’s, not some kind of stable, non changing experience. I think it has a sort of life of its own and is very subjective and is the product of conflict and collaboration and deep relationship building. Yeah. Excellent. I know you refer to it is a product or by product of relationships. Yeah, some of my earliest work experiences is a when i was in my twenties att that time, i was a teacher. We would sit down in these meetings and we were supposed to take on these very big tasks, and we’d sit there, and everyone was twiddling their thumbs, complaining about how nobody trusts anyone. Of course, that wasn’t the language that was being used, but it was really a cop out and a lack of accountability because we would have gotten there, we would have formed that trust had we been willing to dig into stuff that was very uncomfortable to confront our own incapacity and our own kind of heartbreak about our failure as teachers in a school system that is failing, and so our inability to do that or lack of accountability, which, you know, we were just kind of dancing around, and i’m sort of pretending, and i say we i mean, i was of course aware that this was happening, but unable to necessarily do something about it in a big way. So and i’ve seen this in another non-profits i currently work a teaching matters, which is a non-profit i’ve consulted other non-profit so i so i see this kind of expectation that we start with trust, but the truth is that we usually end with it. So what? Okay, i’m going to challenge myself then, since you’re challenging these notions what i’m calling trust maybe is naivete. Well, i have a child in the dark or something or so that’s. A very interesting association. I wouldn’t say naive a tae that that there’s there may be i mean, there’s always a judgment. I think when we use that word in it, i don’t know what it is for you. But i do think our our first experience of organizational life is in our family system. And so are first formative experiences around trust are really important to pay attention to because they have a rich information for how we currently experience trust and betrayal and the notions that we have in the associations that we have around that. So i do think thie i mean, not that it makes you a child, but i do think it’s important to look at that dimension of our relatedness around trust. Okay, this may be a conversation more for my therapist than then a special psychologist. Let’s see s o i’m going to presume that your definition of mistrust would be something similar. It’s certainly also a byproduct of relationships. And it was him. Or you would add about mistrust. Well, again, it it there’s there’s a different i guess the only way i can distinguish it is there’s a difference between mistrust and betrayal, i think, which is that i think trust and mistrust kind of live together. So if we’re if we think we have one underneath the surface, the mistrust is always there. If you think about any even personal relationships, you can’t have a professional ones many times we give trust, hoping that we won’t. We won’t have the experience of being betrayed or are having experience of mistrust so that there’s it’s always there and betrayal in particular is an incidents when agreements between two people, whether unconscious or not conscious, are our transgressed or broken or boundaries are really crossed on dh i mean and well, i guess there so i’m saying that there are so many other components to betrayal, but that would be a very basic way to look at it. Okay? Betrayal. Very harsh. That’s the word no eight years horse but but but that’s, the thing about the world we live in today’s, which is why does it have to be perceived so harshly? We have to go away for a couple minutes. Nina chanpreet corps. And i’m going to keep talking about the bite. These byproducts of your relationships, trust, mistrust and betrayal. Stay with us. You’re tuned to non-profit radio. Tony martignetti also hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a quick ten minute burst of fund-raising insights, published once a month. Tony’s guests are expert in crowdfunding, mobile giving event fund-raising direct mail and donor cultivation. Really, all the fund-raising issues that make you wonder, am i doing this right? Is there a better way there is? Find the fund-raising fundamentals archive it. Tony martignetti dot com that’s marketmesuite n e t t i remember there’s, a g before the end, thousands of listeners have subscribed on itunes. You can also learn maura, the chronicle website philanthropy dot com fund-raising fundamentals the better way. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent let’s talk about your research, nina, how do you study these issues? Well, my, my, my approach to doing research is looking through a psychodynamic lens, so just to touch on what you said before about, is this a conversation more for my therapist and and and i and i think that that is something within non-profits the idea that well, we only have to deal with strategic plans and theories of change and how we run meetings and not deal with the softer aspects, the reality, the felt experience between people. And so i about a year ago, i went to a group relations conference, which is it’s, an experiential unconference looking at the group dynamic systems, dynamics, organizational dynamics, and i stumbled upon the topic of trust and betrayal that week, it was a week long conference, and it was a very powerful experience, one of the members on staff there i was dr jim krantz, and he has done a lot of research also about trust and betrayal and how leaders often times have to make very tough decisions and betray in the process of managing organizations and it doesn’t it doesn’t, and you’re right. I mean, when you said betrayal is harsh, it’s true, it it’s a very painful experience. I mean, i don’t mean to take away from the felt experience that can be debilitating in the face of betrayal, but but but but our ways of thinking about trust and betrayal is really what i researched and in the context of school. So i have i mentioned before, i am a consultant teaching matters, and i’ve worked for the new york city department education for the last ten years, and trust and betrayal are just the most the biggest issues happening in schools today because there are so many changes, and those changes aren’t being built well managed, and as a result, i was looking in these organizational systems, i working in the schools and seeing that the ideas about trust and betrayal, or were very for me a little bit strange because change itself for many teachers and for many even administrators was a form of betrayal, just just the fact of so many changes happening was produced and invoked a sense of betrayal, not probably not only among teachers, but among students, also parents, i looked mostly at the staff and what we’re looking at. We we’re looking at a school system that fundamentally is not meeting the needs of the student. And so what i research was, why is this happening? Why do we have a system? And by looking at a couple of schools this case, studies in which the needs of the children are being met and what i found was that there is a regression happening, there’s this idea that we be able to trust or or that change never happens this agreement within the staff systems of schools, and this expectation around things either not changing or being ableto have a certain level of comfort, right right now in school, so many things are being challenged, the contract, the pay scale, the curriculum, the standards. I mean, almost everything in a school right now is changing. But basically nothing has stayed the same. And so what i wanted to understand is, why have we why do why does that expectation exist? That nothing changed on my hypothesis about in what i research? Was that the expectation that there be some kind of idealized trust that doesn’t change is a form of regressed thinking in a way in and a way in which and when i say regression, what i mean is that the needs of the children are being met, but rather the needs of the staffer put first and that’s what that’s what’s going on, and it doesn’t mean i’m not trying to say teacher would be listening. This alarm bells might be going on. I’m not trying to say the needs of the staff are not important to the needs of the adults are not important, but the needs of the children are not coming first on di didn’t you know it’s interesting, i didn’t look at the experience of trust between teacher and student that is a more difficult thing toe look at just in terms of the, um i guess just the logistics in terms of running a study like that, so my research was both quantitative and qualitative, and i was looking at it from a particular psychodynamic lens, so i hope that gives you a little bit of context. Well, one of the other things i’ll say is that a couple of years ago i had a leadership mentor. Who said to me, you know the world is changing so quickly, you really do need to know yourself and have a firm sense of yourself. Because when things change, you don’t also want to be falling apart in the middle of it. And around the time when i started this research, something in my life happened that really challenged me and challenge my notions of myself and trust and other people on dh in it and i it really required me to have that strength. And so one of the one of the things whenever, whenever i talk about my research, it’s impossible also not to talk about what i personally went through to be able to learn and see more clearly in my research, right there was there was a personal journey there. So you want to expand on what the journey was in a minute or two? Well, you said a little bit about it before i mean, it is t now there was a personal journey, and then, well, not sure. Well, what i’ll say about it is just that i, like i had mentioned before, beginning when we were first talking was that i was looking at myself, kind of putting myself in a p tradition, noticing that i don’t trust really anything, including ingredient labels, which are very black and white and s o it was just sort of, you know, looking more carefully at my own internal and interest psychic world around trust and betrayal, and trying to understand what was going on for me, and it became very informative for how it was then seeing the world around me. Where do you think this expectation comes from? That that there won’t be changed and that things will remain constant? Well, i think it i think it comes from, um it come, it comes from living in a world in which our organizational systems, and in which our school systems are are not are not dealing with the what i will say unconscious or underneath the surface elements of things, and so eh? So i think when we are more conscious of our thoughts, beliefs and actions it’s very simple to to challenge that notion. But when we’re not doing that, it’s just it’s, it’s, it’s very easy to fall into that belief, it’s very counterintuitive because there is so much change day to day from from employment situation’s toa technology, tio new stop signs. And in new york city the new speed limit this week from thirty to twenty five there is so much change around us, but so the expectation seems really exactly it’s irrational. This is so this is it. So when we think about when i say unconscious is exactly what i’m referring to is the irrationality, and we and and this is something i learned from jim krantz, which is that we are really living in a myth of rationality in the world, when in fact, there’s a whole lot of irrationality, that’s running our organisations in our systems and particularly i would say, buy-in in startups non-profits where people who are running them not that this oh my god, it’s, just so much irrationality happening in corporations, but non-profits and social enterprises are very interesting to look at because they have less funding to invest in some of these other types of mechanisms that they may need in their organizations. It’s kind of you know what i experience a non-profits is sort of like you have to be bare bones, right? You can’t always invest in these other aspects of organizational life that are so critical and and what i’m referring to is this approach of looking at the irrationality and an organizational system and looking at group dynamics and really grasping it. So how are we going toe navigate through our relationships, understanding that there’s going to be disappointment and frustration and also elation? Yeah, i think what you just said is the first artist is having that expectation and and knowing with open eyes and an open mind that, you know, there will be mistrust, there will be betrayal. And why do i have this idealization that that might happen? Let me look at that and what’s going on with me that i’m not seeing the reality of what could potentially happen. I mean, i think that’s the first start, but the other piece of it is tio when we think about working and living in an organizational system is it is trying teo, to really know oneself to really reflect no, your triggers know your motivator is no what’s really important to you and to be able to gauge that about other people and see the connection between the individual, the group, the organization the system, the world around us, i mean, these these these connections are very important to make, and when we’re not making them, we’re really missing a big part of our a big piece of relationship building, and we may not be able to see what is necessary to see to build that trust so i don’t have hokey ideas about okay, sit around in a group and tell the truth for a while, and then then you’ve got trust me. I there’s so many people are very quick to sell you ideas that would form let’s. Go on a group retreat and we’re walking on hot coals. I think therefore i think that trustee or reform back, i hope it’s okay for me to say this, but i think that’s bullshit. So i know we’ve had worse, i think it’s i think it’s i think it’s much more complex. I think it depends on the type of organization, the history, the memory of that organization. How long it’s been around the dynamics of turnover in that group? There’s? Just so many things to think about. And when you’re on the funder the managerial end of things you you know leaders have to make decisions all the time, whether they’re conscious of it or not, that they that they are betraying our may need to betray in the service of the larger task of the company and the larger well being of the mission of the work. And i mean, i think a lot of funders don’t don’t know the quality of of the dynamics within systems and organizations, and if there’s one thing i could recommend, it would be i mean, i’m not in the business of giving advice, but i really do think the experience i went through was invaluable and going to a group relations conference, and particularly for funders and the managers and leaders of organizations to be ableto have that experience it’s very eye opening. So and there is one coming up in our area in january it sze called authority roll on accountability and organizations and it’s happening january fourteenth eighteenth it’s a residential experience experiential conference in the taba stock tradition. And dr jim krantz is the director where it’s andover, massachusetts so it’s not far from here, and i have the name of it again its authority um roll an accountability authority. Role and accountable the website is leadership twenty fifteen dahna oregon. So we’ll post it, you know, we’ll post it when you were so sure the link with you. Yeah, we put in the takeaways. Paige there’s a lot of variables that go into power and authority in relationships, and i think those air relevant in around these topics, the variables on something of whose wealthier who’s got more experience, those the ones that come to mind and i’m thinking, you know, i’m thinking like, fundraiser donor-centric gree more tony, i mean, i think we we again living under this either this myth of rationality, this this idea that we have leadership figured out we don’t you know, we would continually need to revisit these basic issues of authority roll power. You know, these very basic things that play into how we relate to one another and how our organizational systems function as a result of that. And i think that, you know, trust is not in itself it’s sort of is just one thing, but it’s, everything around it that either creates that air destroys it. It’s a very elusive thanks, yeah, little more book. Well, like when we’re talking about authority and power and i mentioned before accountability, you know, we were talking about the group dynamics. These things are kind of the the the world of the organizational life and that’s going to determine whether or not they the system’s ableto hold trust and individuals can form bonds of trust or not, and in my experience and this is something that’s challenging for me to even say, but in some of the school’s right work, it’s just buy-in what i found is sometimes it’s just not possible it’s not possible to form trust, and it can take a very long time. And it’s it’s, the reason why i have a hard time saying it is because it makes me feel debilitated or i’m like, how do we live in a world where it’s just at times not possible and many people may challenge me on that. But from what i felt and experienced, there are times when it’s just not possible, and it doesn’t mean that there’s no solution, but it can take it can take an organization where there is a significant trauma or an incident decades to rebuild e i mean it’s on and it goes much better when we’re looking at what we’re just talking about, we’re looking at these dynamics and we’re working on them and we were we continually see trust is a byproduct instead of having the expectation that it be there in order for us to do the work, we’re always going to be working under a kind of discomfort and a sense of constant change that that may not be ideal, but but we have to work wonder it to get to the trust we’re always working in a state of discomfort you’re saying i think so to some extent, i mean, i mean, when in my own work, you know, i love what i do. I really love the work i’ve done in schools over the last decade, and it brings me a lot of pleasure, but that, but but that feeling of pleasure is always there with a lot, with a mixed, other set of emotions around discomfort, uncertainty, fear, you know, questioning myself, questioning other people on dh in fact, what’s interesting so year, so a year since i started well, over a year now since i started doing that research what i have discovered in myself is, i trust myself more, but i continue to question myself, and i continue to reflect, and that has been, i think, a guiding light for me and being able to navigate so much complexity. Yeah, good, yeah. Lorts there aren’t probably enough very many people always questioning, always asking these bigger questions the way the way you’re going through not only your research but your life. It sounds like you, and the reason why i figured out how to do it is because i’ve met many people along the way who opened the door for me or open my eyes to something that said, hey, pay attention to this or, you know it it’s so much of my success is based on the success of other people who i have many form bonds of trust with, but but but but nothing and nothing in my life has ever remained constant or consistent, and so perhaps because i’ve had that experience just even from my childhood to today, it has given me a bit of a different perspective. What is it that you love about the work that you’re doing? Whether it’s consulting the research, what do? Well, i’m really driven by you know what? What you mentioned in the introduction, which is, which is how do you effectively impact change? And i’m i’m also driven by buy-in finding ways to continuously improve what we’re doing that so that’s my m o that’s what i really want to see in the world and so it just gives me great pleasure to be able to work with people and work and organizations where i can help them do that. And i can be part of that experience and figure figure something out for the wide world. So a lot of what i’m doing in schools, the reason i do the research is so i can look at it and take it back and say, okay, wait here. I found something this could apply across, right the applied research. This could apply somewhere else and making that making that connection, leveraging that change is really important to me. Um, you know, it comes from it comes really from my mother and the way that i was raised and she was very aware of global issues and whether or not i should have known what i knew about the world at the ages that i did is another issue, but just just having from her and seeing from her what’s happening in the world and wanting to understand kind of in this title that i wear the doctor of social problems, what’s going on and how you solve it. It is really what gives me a lot of pleasure, so i’m glad you credited your mom at the end. Well, of course, we have to leave it there, ok. Nina chanpreet corps last name spelled k es. You are. You’ll find her on twitter at nina chanpreet, thank you so much for having me, tony. My pleasure. I’m glad you know i’m glad you’re with me. Thank you very much. Generosity siri’s. They host five k runs and walks last sunday. I am seed, their generosity and why see, event over three hundred runners from nine charities came together in riverside park. They were from the center for urban community services. Creative artworks engender health, forrest, dale and other non-profits. One of them could have hosted their own event. They don’t have enough runners, but when the community comes together, then they can do incredible things together, raising over one hundred fifty thousand dollars for these nine organizations. And the fund-raising actually continues for another two weeks, so they’re not done. Generosity. Siri’s, dave lind, he’s the ceo. You can talk to him. Tell him that you came from non-profit radio he’s at seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven or generosity siri’s, dot com. They have events coming up in new jersey, miami and philadelphia. I shot this week’s video in riverside park at generosity and y c because i was really moved by the great success of these nine charities coming together like i just said, they none of them could do it on their own. But coming together such enormous synergy and there’s just ah, terrific lesson about collaboration, whether it’s with your colleagues or other organizations, this week’s video is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday fourteenth of november forty fifth show of this year. Maria simple. You know maria simple she’s, the prospect finder she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com and her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch prospects now she’s our doi end of dirt, cheap and free. You can follow maria on twitter at maria simple. Welcome back, maria simple. Hello there. How are you today? I’m doing very well. How are you? Just fine, thank you. Excellent. We’ve got the pleasantries out of the way. What’s what’s this high net worth study all about that you want to talk about? So i had an opportunity to hear about the results of the most recent high network study that was undertaken by us trusted it’s actually a partnership between us trust and the indiana university lily family school of philanthropy, and they do this study every other year. And i was attending a conference on friday for a f p in west chester, and i heard david radcliffe speak he’s, one of the managing director’s um, over at us trust, and so i thought it would make for some very interesting conversation because, of course, non-profits were always interested in knowing what what are the high net worth individuals in our communities thinking about as it relates to philanthropy in general, but about how we as organizations operate on dh? How can we leverage the results of this study to sort of improve or tweak what we’re doing is non-profit so it was very intriguing to me, and so as i was listening to him, speak and then afterward went in on the web and sought out the study itself. Um, i was thinking of this through the lens of a non-profit and what should they be gleaning from these reports? We should just cut you out and brought david on well, let’s, bring the principal in here. Well, well, you know what that would probably make for conversation, you know, how you know? Absolutely, but i think but, you know, i’m looking at it fromthe lens of if i were well, obviously, as a prospect researcher, i was very interested in this, right? So i’m always interested in what is going on in the psyche of the high net worth individual, but also through the lens, as i said of a non-profit executive or a non-profit boardmember what do you need to be keeping in mind as you’re approaching or thinking about approaching high net worth individuals for some major gift to really propel your organization’s forward? Important, i think, to recognize that the survey is based on self reported activity and thoughts around why we give why i give so there’s always that, you know, sampling bias. I’m not sure if that’s the right phrase, but there’s always a bias around self reported results versus something that’s observation all yeah, but what? You know, what was interesting was they really made sure that they tried to randomly sample across the entire united states on dh so in the end they’re in there. I understand. Just still self reported data. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Itself reported data and it has to do with their sentiments about they’re giving in the year twenty thirteen. So overall, i will say that i thought things came out to be pretty positive from the report. Things do seem to be on an upswing. So that was the overarching from me. Good news that i got out of the executive summary of the study. I did see that ninety eight percent of high net worth. And by the way, we should define our terms to they define high net worth as having a minimum of a million dollars net worth, excluding you home value on and having on an annual income of two hundred thousand dollars or more, right, that’s their definition of high net worth. All right, i saw that ninety eight percent of the high net worth individuals donate. Yes, yes. So that was that was indeed very good news as well as their average dollar amount has gone up. Um, since since the last study was done, so in two thousand eleven, their average gift was at fifty three thousand. Five hundred nineteen dollars and it’s actually increased twenty eight percent. It’s now up to sixty eight thousand five hundred eighty dollars. So again, good positive news. That’s probably reflecting our improved economy from two years ago. Right? Sort of expect that. But it is very it’s. Good news. Encouraging hyre encouraging also for the future that a lot of people think eighty five percent expect to give the same or mohr this year. Yes, yes, very ous. They look forward to what do they plan to do in the future? The overwhelming number of people said they planned to keep it at same levels or increased levels. So that was good to know that in their psyche, their not thinking about pulling back. Ah, they also think that non-profits are sort of a great solution to many of the problems and issues that we face in our community. So they do feel that they have a great deal of trust in the nonprofit sector to really harness and tackle some of the big issues that are going on right now. Okay, that you’re right. That’s also encouraging. What else you see in there? Well, i liked the fact that just over seventy eight percent of them gave unrestricted e-giving so that to me says as a non-profit as you’re thinking about your programs and so forth and how you know when you’re approaching foundations or corporations, and they want to give to some very specific programming as you’re approaching a non-profit i’m sorry, an individual their psyche is a little different, they don’t mind giving toe unrestricted e-giving they totally get the fact that you’ve got to keep the lights on and pay salaries, et cetera, so that takeaway was don’t forget to ask for that general operating support. Yeah, that is pretty startling. It’s that’s ah, considerably hyre number than i would have thought. But, you know, my insights could be completely off base as well, but that was yeah, pretty revealing to me that that high proportion of unrestricted giving also very encouraging. What did you say that? What did you say? The percentage was of unrestricted gift. Uh, the statistic that david shared with us with seventy eight point two percent okay, gave unrestricted among friends. We can call it seventy eight percent. Okay, um, i saw that volunteers give more. That seems intuitive if you’re spending time with the organization, you’re you’re more apt to give more to them than if you’re a non volunteer. That’s, right? Absolutely. So another takeaway, then, for a non-profit is teo not be afraid to first approach on high net worth individual and ask them for a gift of their time, as opposed to outright asking for a gift of cash? Because it is pretty darn likely. I think that if you can get them engaged at a very deep and committed level, it will probably stand to reason that the money will also follow what else you got there. So another interesting piece for me was that you have to really think about engaging both spouses so as you’re thinking about your approach to them, if they’re married, um, think about having the conversation with both people don’t leave the spouses out of the conversations around major gift because they are not making these decisions in a vacuum, and the spouse does appreciate very much being involved in that conversation on dh taking their overall interests and ideas toe heart. So they really wanna have that that level of, you know, involvement. So that would be a big takeaway i thought was make sure you’re not just talking to one person if they’re married, make sure both are at the table for the conversations. You know what i see that maria playing out badly often is at events, not where there’s an ask being being made the way you’re describing, but the, uh i see so often people working for the for the organization are talking to the predominant donor in the in the couple, whether it’s, the wife or the husband and sort of minimising or excluding fromthe conversation, the other person it’s really offensive, but i see that a lot. And so how does the how does the other person feel they feel marginalized? They they feeling like the organization thinks they’re insignificant, and i think that has a lot of repercussions. Yeah, you know what, you’re absolutely right. I’ve noticed the same thing and, you know, one way around that for an organisation is just to be a little bit more strategic, you know, in deciding all right, you know, in advance who’s going to be an attending a an event, so why not make sure that you leverage your board and keep volunteers that will be at this event to have them understand the key couples that will be there so that if a conversation is happening, you know, with, say, as you called it, the predominant donor and make sure that somebody else is, you know, trying to at least engage the other person in the conversation so that there emotions are taken into account well, just to be a decent person, you know, talk to talk, to both, talk to both the guys or the both the women or the guy in the women, you know, talk to everybody, don’t you know, just ah, yeah, i think we need a lot. More sensitivity to the fact that it’s not, you know, it’s, not all about just who gives and who volunteers and the other person we should ignore. I see that i see a lot, ok, but this was one of the other kind of along those, you know, staying on that line for a minute. One of the other interesting pieces that came out of that was that as i said, you know, you you want to make sure you’re taking both people into account. But then one piece of this study said that women are more likely to be the sole decision makers nearly three times as many women as men. Twenty percent versus seven percent are the sole decision maker. So and i’m pretty sure that us trust has also done a study in the past around women and philanthropy, so that might be something interesting to take a closer look at as well. But don’t forget to talk to the woman in the couple, that is for certain. Yes, if the if the guy is the predominant donor. But talk tio, talk to the whole family, you know? I mean, just be just just talk to people. Be decent. That’s all yeah. Okay, um, i thought it was interesting some of the breakdowns of why people give i like that there’s a very good chart about personal motivations for giving. Yes, you’re right. And i don’t have that one in front of the thing that stood out was that altruism. I was ranked highest and something that you would expect to rank high did not, which was the tax benefits ranked almost close to the bottom. So you’re a cynic you would you expected text to rank? I see i didn’t, but i work in plant giving, and i know that taxes don’t motivate most most people, but you’re okay, your little, your little more cold hearted than i am that’s. Interesting? No, i just i think i would have expected from the study that a tax incentive would have been ranking higher than it did on the overall results have been surprised to see how low it ranked it was, it was one third actually, to be exact, thirty four percent said that receiving a tax benefit motivates them to give and what you mentioned the altruism, personal satisfaction rank very high, seventy three percent said personal satisfaction. And when you believe that your gift can make a difference, that was comparable seventy four percent, a lot of a lot of altruism, you’re right. What else was interesting to you? I thought it was interesting to see why wealthy donors actually stopped e-giving so when they were asked why why they had stopped supporting an organization, they said that receiving solicitations to frequently or being asked for an inappropriate amount. Forty two percent of the people said that was the reason why they stopped. Thirty five percent said they had you there change their philanthropic focus or decided to support other causes. But i thought it was very interesting. And so, you know, that just goes to really reiterate why, as a researcher, you need to think about what is that very targeted? Ask? We can make let’s ask less less frequently, perhaps, but let’s make that ass very much tied to what that family wants to be able to do in terms of making a deep impact. Impact was also a word that that was throughout this study, i thought, because fifty over three fifty three percent of the people said that they monitor or evaluate the impact of their charitable gift. So if you can really tie closely together, i think how often you ask how much you’re asking for and then clearly demonstrating and stewarding that gift. Well, i think that’s gonna have good results. We have to go away for a couple of minutes. When we come back, maria and i will keep talking about the us trust high net worth study. Stay with us. Like what you’re hearing a non-profit radio tony’s got more on youtube, you’ll find clips from stand up comedy tv spots and exclusive interviews catch guests like seth gordon. Craig newmark, the founder of craigslist marquis of eco enterprises, charles best from donors choose dot org’s aria finger do something that worked and a a me levine from new york universities heimans center on philantech tony tweets to he finds the best content from the most knowledgeable, interesting people in and around non-profits to share on his stream. If you have valuable info, he wants to re tweet you during the show. You can join the conversation on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio twitter is an easy way to reach tony he’s at tony martignetti narasimhan t i g e n e t t i remember there’s a g before the end, he hosts a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals is a short monthly show devoted to getting over your fund-raising hartals just like non-profit radio, toni talks to leading thinkers, experts and cool people with great ideas. As one fan said, tony picks their brains and i don’t have to leave my office fund-raising fundamentals was recently dubbed the most helpful non-profit podcast you have ever heard. You can also join the conversation on facebook, where you can ask questions before or after the show. The guests were there, too. Get insider show alerts by email, tony tells you who’s on each week and always includes link so that you can contact guests directly. To sign up, visit the facebook page for tony martignetti dot com. Lively conversation, top trends and sound advice that’s tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m lawrence paige, no knee author off the non-profit fund-raising solution. I still wish lawrence would pronounce his name panjwani sounds so much nicer than paige an oni i don’t know if i told him that when he was on. I don’t think i did. I think it only said it behind his back on the ship, but nobody listens to this show, so it doesn’t make a difference. All right, maria sample. What else was interesting in there, too? I have a few things, but let’s throw to you. What did you find? What else? Well, i did not see this printed anywhere in the report, but one of the things that david said at the conference was he really encouraged the non-profits to have a very succinct one page document about the organization with the legal name spelled correctly so that they can pass this document along to their attorneys for consideration in wills and bequests. So i thought you would like that tip in particular, and i modify it. One piece i would include. Besides, the legal name is the federal tax i d. Number yes. I like gross amounts of precision. Yeah, yeah. He said that, you know, make it as absolutely clear, it’s possible? Because, you know, and i’m sure you have seen in your work problems can arise if things are not properly spelled out. So i thought that was a really good tip that he shared with the audience. There’s another reason for doing it. And that is to make it easy for people to. And i’m sure this is what david thinking is they david is thinking easy to give to the organization by including it in your will. Your life insurance, maybe some other beneficiary designation document without having to go to the organization to ask what’s your legal name. What? Your tax? I d number what’s your address, you know, so just making that ah, easy process for donors. Exactly. On dh that’s. Why he wanted it to be. You know what? Go thanked one page. I thought it was interesting where the dollars are going. The high net worth dollars mostly to education. Just mostly education. Yes, they place a very high ranking on education. And that percentage did grow as well. From twenty eleven to twenty thirteen so they did feel that that was a key policy priority on dh. There were, you know, right behind that where poverty, health care and the environment. Yeah. Now that’s ah, beneath education that’s where this diverges from what atlas of giving and giving, yusa would would say, is the next most popular e-giving which is religion in the no studies. But here religion was number five durney beneath beneath like you’re saying social social services, basic needs beneath arts and beneath health. Then came religion. Yeah. And it could very well be because of the population, the demographics of the population that was actually being surveyed here. So, you know, while atlas of giving and giving us a look more broadly across all income levels since this was focusing so specifically on that hyre network population, you can see that you know what? That level things air skewed a little bit differently. Well, they’re coming again. They can afford to buy themselves into the afterlife. They don’t have to give to charities to get there. Maybe that’s it, i think, to the benefit of other non-profits other other terrible missions. What else you got there? Well, you know they’re clear expectations that they have set out for the non-profits and again, you know, comes back to two to measuring impact. I can’t stress enough how much i thought as david was speaking, then i subsequently went and read the executive summary how non-profits really need teo get very clear, um, about stewardship so important, i mean, i know that i’m here to talk about prospect research, you know, that feeds into getting the gift, but then keeping those people engaged once you’ve got them engaged with your organization toe, let them slip away because you’re either asking too frequently or ass skiing for not the right amounts or you’re not just simply telling your stories about keeping them engaged is just such a huge missed opportunity. How did how did they gauge that from this study? Well, they were they were talking about their expectations and how they expect to be having there is the impact of their gifts, how they monitor their giving, so a lot of them are actually measuring the impact they’re giving by directly engaging with the organization at eighty percent of the people are so again, it goes back to that asking them t be volunteering with you stay as close to possible with the mission of the organization so that they’re able to continue seeing the impact that you’re doing so don’t only demonstrate that impact through letters and and email and social media, but make sure that you’re engaging them to really have direct contact with the organization on dh reporting on impact for those that want that reporting? Absolutely yeah, i mean, there are going to be that the people who really want to see it in, you know, in that number’s format, you, they want to see the reports and so forth and that’s great, you’ve got to do that. You’ve got to do those outcome measurements and so forth, however, at that high net worth level, if you can keep them engaged as well through volunteerism. It’s going to bode very well going forward for you. Okay, we have just about a minute left. What what’s a final point you’d like to make again having that one page document don’t ignore thie, you know, because a couple aa in its entirety a cz decision makers understanding what motivates them, keeping them engaged with your organization, getting them to volunteer more often on dh asking for appropriate amounts so that does involve prospect research. It involves understanding where they’ve given what other levels and where you know what motivates them. What is it that they want to give to within your organization? She’s, our regular contributor in prospect research and she’s the prospect finder. You’ll find maria simple at the prospect finder dot com and on twitter at marie. A simple thank you so much, maria. Thank you. Real pleasure to have you back. Thank you. Next week got mohr informative interviews coming from fund-raising day. If you missed any part of today’s show, find it at tony martignetti dot com generosity siri’s good things happen when small charities work together. Seven one eight five o six. Nine triple seven or generosity siri’s dot com our creative producer was clear meyerhoff sam liebowitz is on the board as the line producer shows social media is by julia campbell of jake campbell social marketing and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules this music is by scott stein you with me next week for non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Sorry, i couldn’t do live listener love pre recorded this week. But i love our live listeners and podcast pleasantries as well. Go out and be great. What’s not to love about non-profit radio tony gets the best guests check this out from seth godin this’s the first revolution since tv nineteen fifty and henry ford nineteen twenty it’s the revolution of our lifetime here’s a smart, simple idea from craigslist founder craig newmark yeah insights, orn presentation or anything? People don’t really need the fancy stuff they need something which is simple and fast. When’s the best time to post on facebook facebook’s andrew noise nose at traffic is at an all time hyre on nine a m or eight pm so that’s, when you should be posting your most meaningful post here’s aria finger ceo of do something dot or ge young people are not going to be involved in social change if it’s boring and they don’t see the impact of what they’re doing. So you got to make it fun and applicable to these young people look so otherwise a fifteen and sixteen year old they have better things to do if they have xbox, they have tv, they have their cell phones. Me dar is the founder of idealist took two or three years for foundation staff, sort of dane toe add an email address their card, it was like it was phone. This email thing is, we’re here that’s why should i give it away? Charles best founded donors choose dot or ge somehow they’ve gotten in touch kind of off line as it were and and no two exchanges of brownies and visits and physical gift. Mark echo is the founder and ceo of eco enterprises. You may be wearing his hoodies and shirts. Tony talked to him. Yeah, you know, i just i’m a big believer that’s not what you make in life. It sze, you know, tell you make people feel this is public radio host majora carter. Innovation is in the power of understanding that you don’t just do it. You put money on a situation expected to hell, you put money in a situation and invested and expect it to grow and savvy advice for success from eric sabiston. What separates those who achieve from those who do not is in direct proportion to one’s ability to ask others for help. The smartest experts and leading thinkers air on tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent.
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This Friday is Scott’s swan song. Editor of Nonprofit Technology News, he’s our longest running contributor, at close to three-and-a-half years! I decided to change topics (see below), and I don’t want to have more than four regulars. They are half the show and I want to keep half open for other brilliant guests.
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In April, Cindy Gibson will join as our newest contributor–on grants fundraising. She’s principal of Cynthesis Consulting and has over 25 years helping funders (like the Carnegie Corporation) and grantees (including People for the American Way).
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