Tag Archives: social justice

Nonprofit Radio for February 7, 2022: Influencing Young America To Act

Derrick Feldmann: Influencing Young America To Act

Derrick Feldmann returns to discuss the takeaways of this study, revealing the causes, actions and influences that move young Americans.



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[00:00:10.04] spk_0:
Hello and welcome to tony-martignetti

[00:00:12.93] spk_1:
non profit

[00:00:13.60] spk_0:

[00:01:47.34] spk_1:
big nonprofit ideas for the The other 95%,, I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh I’m glad you’re with me, I’d come down with paraphernalia MMA if you lit a candle to the idea that you missed this week’s show, influencing young America to act. Derrick Feldmann returns to discuss the takeaways of this study, revealing the causes, actions and influences that move young americans On Tony’s take two. Thank you for indulging me. We’re sponsored by Turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c O What a pleasure to welcome back after uh probably too long. Too long a hiatus. Derrick Feldmann, he is a sought after speaker, researcher and advisor for causes and companies on social movements and issue engagement. He leads the research team for influencing young America to act The study of how young adults 18-30 are influenced by and influence others to support social issues and movements. It’s that study that brings him back to nonprofit radio he’s at Derrick Feldmann two Rs and two ends. Well there’s two es also but they’re not these are not co located there, they’re spread across these two names. Eric welcome back to nonprofit radio

[00:01:49.64] spk_2:
tony thanks so much, I appreciate that on the name. You know the two Rs and two ends can throw a lot of people quite honestly,

[00:01:55.54] spk_1:
yes, I don’t want listeners following the wrong Derrick Feldmann, he’s whoever he is. Uh

[00:02:11.04] spk_2:
well you would be shocked there is another one and my mom will ever this person actually, there is a Derrick Feldmann, that is a very well recognized medical professional in europe actually. And so um my mom every once in a while asked me if I’m into medicine,

[00:02:19.21] spk_1:
so she wishes all these years, Why didn’t you be a doctor?

[00:02:25.11] spk_2:

[00:02:28.05] spk_1:
Could have been better than him.

[00:02:30.15] spk_2:
Exactly. My

[00:02:37.24] spk_1:
son, he could have been a doctor. Alright. Chosen entrepreneurship. Alright. Um congratulations on the study. I know you do this annually. Congratulations on the 2021 study coming out.

[00:02:43.34] spk_2:
Yeah, absolutely. I actually, we do this four times a year and the one that we’re gonna be talking about today is sort of a compilation and including the last one in this in December, which is 2021. So yeah, thank you.

[00:02:56.07] spk_1:
You do it seasonally. You’ve got spring, summer, fall and winter.

[00:03:04.94] spk_2:
We do actually. That was born out of the Covid times. We were, we were um We were doing a lot of quantum qual during when COVID in March 2020 and we just sort of stayed with it to be quite honest. It changed a lot of our research approach.

[00:03:35.74] spk_1:
All right, so let’s let’s go to the study. Um I don’t know, it must be the New Year or something and I’m feeling generous with guests. Usually I’m very dictatorial, We’re gonna talk about this and then this and then that and then I’ll give you a chance then if there’s time, what would doug guests like to talk about? But I don’t know, maybe like I said, maybe it’s a new year. I don’t know what you you’re immersed in this, you’re the lead researcher, what’s your headline for the for the study?

[00:06:00.24] spk_2:
Uh you know, I of course have the chance to look at across the whole year. So while there’s some good stuff at the end of the year, I think the number one thing that we are seeing is and I I I have to unfortunately be the bad bearer of news at times around these moments. These issues and movements that say started the pandemic have really sort of lessened a little bit in their participation and interest. And I don’t say that just because of because of our december data, but I say that looking across from 2020 20, and two where we are today. And so things like social justice or racial justice, those have decreased the participation in our panels in general. And I mentioned this a lot in um the upfront of this year’s sort of compilation report which is around moments that we have in general and that once these moments go away maintaining engagement still is a hard thing to do. It’s still is and if you look at in in in this kind of study versus all the other studies I’ve led in the past, we always look at the influences to one’s behavior, right? So it’s not just what did somebody do, but who told you what influenced you? How’d you get there as well? And it follows the cultural media, popular culture narratives and developments that happen in society. And I think this is really really important for movement leaders and and cause leaders, C E. O. S and um even brands that are working on social issues is, you know, if you’re dedicated to your issue, which all of them are, you know, what are you going to do when you’re not in the headlines and when you’re not upfront and everything else? And that’s the hardest part, especially with an audience that’s very digitally native, very engaged in media and so forth. So I think that that was probably, you know, one of the things that I’ve continued, we’ve continued to track and kind of see. Um one other, one other thing to that we I think it’s important to understand one social issue engagement in context with all the other things that they do. I see. And you know, I I’ve been a researcher focusing on young people now for 15 years and I’ll see studies that talk about young adults.

[00:06:03.51] spk_1:
You’ve been doing this work since you were 12,

[00:08:19.94] spk_2:
practically right. Um you know, when we look at these studies today, I’ll often find an organization would come to me and say we did our own research on what young americans want or something. And we found out that they’re really interested in our programs? We found out that they’re really interested in these kinds of things and so forth. And I asked them, I said I want you to share with me your questions and when they share those questions with me Tony I see as if we’re asking about social issues in a complete vacuum constantly and the person who takes those surveys will consistently say the ideal state. We always do that. That’s the ideal, right? That’s the path of least resistance are our brain goes into. And one of the things that’s very apparent in our studies is that we move beyond just social issues and triangulate that with other things that are really going on. And I will say this over the since we’ve started tracking things heavier and deeper when we started this research project four or five years ago to where we are now. And even through the pandemic, there is one consistent rising issue in addition to their social issues and that’s mental health and it has not slowed. It has increased over time, not only because our panels and are individuals who are in them are affected, but they know a lot of peers and young people who are also affected. And I I think this is important because we all want as leaders, everybody to do everything for us and with us in some way, shape or form that’s the constituency side. Let’s get everybody active for the issue help our beneficiaries and so forth. But what happens when the constituents are also challenged with many other things? And where does our issues sit in that? And I think we have to recognize the challenges, especially if you’re working with younger demographics like 18 to 30 year old, the challenges that they face in addition to the desires that you want them to to hopefully perform. And so we did a special call out in this one because it’s just been consistently concerning and rising not only as just being affected by it, but also one that they see should be addressed as well as a larger social issue within America. So I, I bring those 23 points to to hear because I think it’s it’s a time we must recognize that as leaders as well.

[00:09:30.04] spk_1:
And we’re going to talk some about the mental health issue, how it’s how it’s evolved and how consistent it’s been. Um, I think bearing out your, your first point about moments and shifts in shifts in interest. I thought very interesting Across 2021, um, animal rights, spring summer and fall, We’re the # one issue of interest. But then in winter they dropped off. They weren’t even one through three and, and civil rights took the place of of number one in the, in the winter, but but also interesting in that is that, you know, all three of those are our, well, the concern for others just shifted from animals to in the first three quarters to two people in the, in the fourth quarter, but also civil, but civil rights Was civil rights remained in the top three all year. It’s just in the fourth quarter it became the number one, the number one area of interest, but civil rights was the only one that was throughout the whole year.

[00:11:49.64] spk_2:
Exactly, exactly. Now I will say what’s interesting Tony in addition to civil rights and we were shocked about animals. If you actually look at 2022 now, animals and animal rights is always no matter how we randomly, by the way, we randomize the list for every person that’s taking it and our panels were like, there’s no way animal rights is gonna come out and it’s surely it does every, every single time. So I want to go back to something that we started to see, I will say probably latter part of 2020 into the, into 2021 and but it shifted a little bit further now and that is, is that a lot of the social issues that they were being engaged with were very personal issues as well. Um, in 2020 and into 2021, we would consistently see things like wages, jobs, employment issues that they were wanted, that where they were going with it, health, by the way, healthcare and premiums and health in general has always been an issue of interest And um, and into 2021, it was kind of there, but not it was, you’re seeing the top three, but it was in the top 45 and six. And she’s kind of hovering around there and when we see civil rights and those kinds of pieces coming in, we’re always looking for were there moments as well and that was kind of going back to that there would be maybe heightened things that occurred in moments or that there was something in the media, there was something that in culture that was also happening. Um, but what’s, what’s intriguing about, say, a gun safety or gun rights coming in there are the conversations, is, is that some of those will be momentarily types pieces when I think about it, I look at it and say, what are the things that that young americans are personally being affected by and how has that changed? And when I see things like healthcare still getting in there and wages and employment in the top five and six, that’s an issue when I look at things in which that they may personally, but also just social issues in general, animals, civil rights and sort of the gun space tends to be consistent over the last couple of years and it wavers now in october Climate was in the top five, but again, I only listen to the top three

[00:11:53.98] spk_1:
climate was I was gonna, I was gonna ask about climate, where where’s because I’m, you know, I’m seeing the top three in the,

[00:12:01.56] spk_2:
in the report,

[00:12:02.31] spk_1:
where’s where’s where’s climate change? The climate crisis?

[00:12:05.24] spk_2:
Because yeah, the expectation would be this population is very interested in reminder

[00:12:11.31] spk_1:
Reminder. Listen, we’re talking about 18-30 year olds, exactly. They’re gonna be around blowing, they’re gonna be around a long time.

[00:12:26.84] spk_2:
And you know, I was at cop 26. So we, and by the way, every quarter besides our regular battery of questions that we have, we asked, um, questions that are most likely going to happen or moments and things that are gonna happen in that quarter. So in october when we fielded, we focused on climate. So for anybody who’s in the environmental space, make sure you look at the, the october release of last year. So in preparation for cop 26

[00:12:43.94] spk_1:
my folks went top 20, let us know cop 26 there in

[00:15:11.14] spk_2:
slider Yeah. The Global Conference on Climate, Yeah. It’s technically called the Conference of Parties, but you can go back to what that all means in general later. But essentially, everybody got together in Glasgow to talk about the commitments that were made out of paris and then commitments forward and where the country is really stood and and there’s a lot of policy and a lot of other things that need to occur. So in preparation our partners and others asked us to make that October one focused on climate and the environment and climate and the environment throughout the year has always been and maybe it’s it’s always in the top 10, sometimes it’ll pull in the top five in the top five, but never in the top three, it’s always five or six. And so forth. The assumption is, and this is something that I talked about actually in in I was referencing climate as well as many other issues at times that sometimes the media narrative about very active young americans generalizes the general population’s perceptions of what young americans are really involved in. Right. And so when we see that, and this is the same thing that happens in maybe high states of polarization where you have the pro and the anti side there, you know, voices become louder and louder even though their numbers may not be as loud in general too, because, you know, we we actually did research for an organization that’s involved in the gun space and the thunder. And one of the things that were quite shocked about is they didn’t know things they didn’t know the individuals from March for our lives and in the climate space, they didn’t know Greta thunberg either. But there’s an assumption because our media kind of takes that perception that they’re young people being incredible movement leaders, therefore they’re garnering people involved and they are, but that population tends to be those that are active already. So they’re not skewing the rest of the data consistently. So what you end up having and this is what we have in climate in ours is we have a large swath of young people sitting in kind of this middle position, which are not necessarily incredibly overly active, but they’re, they’re what I would call probably more their climate conscious, but they’re not climate active and they’re, and they’re sitting there and that’s what happens on these issues when they sometimes rise to the media attention that they get, is is it doesn’t necessarily equate to participation, but we perceive it is because we’ll see a march rally or protest and assume that that’s what all young people believe.

[00:15:18.94] spk_1:
Yeah, right? There’s a, there’s a bias around the moment

[00:15:22.44] spk_2:

[00:15:23.05] spk_1:
because it’s now it’s now it’s in our, it’s in our ken it’s been brought to us. So, you know, it’s an enormous moment, not reflecting the larger context over time. Alright.

[00:15:40.04] spk_2:
And, and in climate is one of those that consistently is in the top 5-10, but it, but it hasn’t even in october it barely made it into the top. So our top five. So I would say that if you’re getting national representative samples really spending time making sure that you have a good set subset of the american population, you’re gonna realize some of this stuff happens this way.

[00:17:01.64] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Turn to communications thought leadership, do you or your nonprofit want to not only participate in conversations around your work, but lead them lead the public dialogue. Wouldn’t it be fulfilling to have media call you to get your opinion on breaking news. It takes time to learn that credibility, no doubt. But turn to, can get you started and can get you there. Thought leadership, turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o Now back to influencing young America to act you, you focus too on actions that, That the uh, 18 to 30 year old set take. And I see signing a petition is very common. That’s a, that’s sort of an easy, that’s a pretty light lift action to take. But it’s pretty consistently and in, uh, it’s pretty consistently number one, at least in 22 and 2021. It was

[00:17:10.24] spk_2:
so, so

[00:17:11.26] spk_1:
signing petition, you know, it’s very likely you can get somebody to do that.

[00:18:05.14] spk_2:
And we, and we have to think about this. And I mentioned the phrase, the path of least resistance. We have to recognize our brain is an economic system, right? It’s always, I’m gonna do the least to get the most in general. Right? And so if I was to say to you Tony, you know what, I know you care about this. I want you now to go out and volunteer 30 hours a month, are you in your brain is gonna be like, well how can I do something, but maybe not go that far? That’s, that’s their model of our head and how it works. I always enjoy saying, well, we wanted, I hear young people want to be on board and I’m like, I can show you the national panels that that’s not the case. You might have very active young people are surrounding yourselves, clouding that perception and judgment. So that might be the case, but the vast majority are not ready to be on your boards and nor are they asking too in general.

[00:18:38.74] spk_1:
You see, there’s the bias. Again, we have to be aware that it’s very hard to overcome this. What we see is not representative of what’s happening nationwide. It’s just, it’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s in our face. So we think, you know, we, we see a car crash and all of a sudden, you know, we elevate the likelihood of of ourselves being in a car crash we see and we see a tragic airline disaster and all of a sudden, you know, the risk of flying on a plane rises in our minds, but, but it’s still, uh, exponentially safer than driving a car. Exactly. It’s, it’s very hard to overcome the bias of what you don’t, I forget. I have a book called alternative interpretations of data based conclusions college, but it’s still on my rival hypotheses. So there’s a name for this, but it’s like consciousness bias or something. What exactly that, Is that what it is? Okay, Okay,

[00:19:02.74] spk_2:
well, and, and tony here’s the interesting thing because, um, I’m often invited to speak, you know, you know, I’ll go to a board or something, you know, big organization, big brand

[00:19:08.85] spk_1:
that’s in your, it’s in your bio, you start after, it must be true.

[00:19:20.34] spk_2:
It is, it is. And and what’s interesting about that is I’ll often get the um, I know all young and I’m like, oh even starting out, starting out, I can’t

[00:19:26.08] spk_1:
even agree with your premise, let alone your

[00:21:27.34] spk_2:
Question. And you’re always going to hear me say according to our sample, according to because even though we have a representative samples constantly, you know, we’re fielding literally in this moment, Tony is supposed to end in about 15-20 minutes after we get off the call. Like I’m going to look at that my team will too and be like, here’s what this sample is recording as well. And I think when you look at our action because I want to get back to this because this is very key, especially for organizations that desires say funds, they desire heavier volunteerism, high expectation enrolls from young people. They are interested in those there is no doubt and so is the american public. Everybody is right. Are empathetic desire that’s coded within our brains to is saying you should that’s a good, you should be doing that as well. But we don’t start there. We usually ease into it after we overcome the path of least resistance and I talked about this a lot in both my book and some other stuff that we’ve done, which is that the first part of engagement is historically the path of least resistance. Where the brain says you should stand up for this or do something because it’s wrong, right? It conflicts with values and beliefs signing a petition is that way right? It’s telling the brain is saying at least you put your name to something, you can at least be honored in that way. Right? Then the second part of that really kind of comes down to that you see others who believe like you and are a part of it. And that is where peer engagement is very, very key because they don’t create relationships with the organization, they create organisms, they create relationships with the others and people around in the community, the movements, the constituency and so forth. Once we get some past some of that, then we start to get into heavier and deeper engagement and so on. But organizations really love to circumvent all of that and go right to the front and for some reason. And this is sort of my little uh um challenge to those that have an opinion around small passive acts because signing a petition

[00:21:29.21] spk_1:
to the collectivism argument

[00:21:56.14] spk_2:
and I have heard every argument about it and I always, when I’m sitting there listening content, li about it, I often say to them, it may not mean anything to you, but it means a whole hell of a lot to the person doing it. And it is a step in many steps to get involved. You should take that as an invitation to do more and and not expect that people have to be a donor immediately in order to be relevant within the organization because they don’t do it that way. They think any action I do for you. You you value it and you believe it’s important and you’re inclusive with it. And that is super key that we have to reinforce.

[00:22:42.34] spk_1:
Yeah, that’s very good looking at it from from the perspective of the person who took the action that was requested. Look, you asked me to do something and I did it. You know, I’m committed, I’m committed, you know, exactly in their mind, I’m committed to the cause. Now, all right. Now, if you want to convert that into volunteer time or come to come to a march or donate, you know, that those things are possible. But in the person’s mind, they’re they’ve they’ve they’ve taken a commit, they’ve made a commitment to the organization. And, and now it’s up to the organization. If you want to try to leverage that beyond, you know, beyond what some considered, uh, an insignificant act.

[00:23:28.04] spk_2:
And that’s the hard part. Right? So, I mean, that’s the hard part of digital marketers engagement and constituency managers who have to and sometimes I find haven’t done the hard work to take somebody who raises their hand and says, yeah, I align with you petitions are alignment, right? Yeah. It allows you to pick somebody out of a crowd and say these people align with the belief that we shared. So it’s our job now to develop the journey, go through it and so forth. But I find we spend so much energy in the intrigue awareness phase of many campaign efforts that we fought, and it’s like, oh, you know, that’s the wind. And I’m like, no, no, no, no. That was just successful to get to the wind, which will be later. That was the moment their milestone.

[00:24:26.54] spk_1:
I see a lot of interest in uh, I’m I’m not I don’t think I’m using the the uh the caption that you use the type. But I see a lot of interesting human rights, you know, Black Lives Matter, um, a woman’s choice, um uh housing, mental health, mental health, This is sort of transitioning into what, you know, you talked about at the outset. Um, I see a lot of interest in human rights and and I consider mental health and treatment for mental health, of course, you know, a basic human right? So I see a lot of interest there, I was gonna say sympathy, but, you know, you’re a researcher, so you might not like the word sympathy, but I see a lot of interest in basic human rights

[00:25:56.84] spk_2:
throughout, and I will say that if you pick up any of our reports, you’re not going to be shocked by seeing any of that, it’s consistent and it’s not just with this, your others. And what’s interesting too is that our social issues become our political issues and political issues become our social issues consistently and it’s not just in this year’s throughout right. If you were to look at and in the report, we talked about, what do you think needs to be in the biden plan that he proposed, which is to build back better or what was even asked what’s missing or what was necessary. And the things you mentioned are always kind of not just in this. I mean that was the one set question that we asked in the fall, but we’re always asking the question, what do you think the country needs to focus on? And they tend to be the same social issues and political issues around the human rights, the condition in which that the person isn’t right, mental health, affordability, employment, and wages, because these are the things that they see themselves when they see their peers also challenged with in general. Um and we have to remember the 18 to 24 year old, right, this will be your older gen z um and versus your 25 to 30 year old, which is in our sample. So we got both young millennials and older gen Z ers in here. Alright, if you look at wage, you look at all the other challenges that they’re dealing with in the formative years which includes now having for those 25 to 30 year olds, now having to pay for health care or hopefully getting it subsidized to companies for the 18 to 24 year old jobs wages, employment college.

[00:26:02.08] spk_1:
These, these folks graduated in the pandemic.

[00:26:48.54] spk_2:
Exactly, exactly. So again, this is one of those where I’m often saying, we have to understand the contextual, social, cultural, economical and political setting in which the person is taking this questions these questions from us because social issues don’t live in the vacuum and they become our issues, they become our politics, they become our values and our beliefs and so you’re going to see that thread consistently and someone said to me, I love, you know, we, we share this with them, I’d love to see all the social issues, like I got everything in there, from medical research to health care to you name it, because if we say, well, no, that’s a political issue I’ll say. But you’re not looking at it from their perspective, in their perspective, they see these as issues affecting them and there are places that they can go to to address it,

[00:27:07.74] spk_1:
let’s dive in a little more to the, your mental health findings. Um you know, you said at the outset, it’s because people have experienced their own Incident of depression or or you know, some other mental health issue or experienced it personally or they know someone who has it is it isn’t like uh is it one out of 10 is has been personally affected or know someone?

[00:27:27.34] spk_2:
Yeah, 56 actually, yeah, yeah, it’s substantive and this again was

[00:27:30.79] spk_1:
50, I’m sorry, do I, 56,

[00:27:33.04] spk_2:
56 had personally been affected or know someone who has affected 56%.

[00:27:37.10] spk_1:
So it’s over half I was

[00:28:58.64] spk_2:
confused. Okay, okay. But here’s here’s the thing that uh as I mentioned at the up front and I’ll reinforce here, which is that this has, this has been growing and it’s been consistently growing because this is not the first, we’re just now calling in a special section at the end of this year because we we we are looking at the researchers back pre pandemic. I mean we started our studies five years ago and now we’re in our fourth or 5th, 4th to 40. I’m sorry for you. We published four years ago, we started five contests a little bit of time and then um you know where we are now and it’s it’s just continuing to go up in general and I think this is something that we have to recognize and what I also find interesting because this is the first time that we asked, what do you think? Because this we sometimes never ask the people who are being affected what they think the solution should be in general. Right. So we asked them like what are the top solutions and you see here one of the top one, if you remember earlier, tony we talked about what we’re one of the issues health care premiums. One of the key things that they said, 46% of them of our sample, overall ensuring adequate mental health insurance coverage and treatment options for the uninsured and underinsured. That is, that goes to tell you something about a group of a cohort of, of a generation in the middle of a pandemic, you know, going through this and I think that that’s really key for our leaders to understand

[00:29:11.64] spk_1:
And then right behind that at 45% requiring insurance companies to cover drug and alcohol addiction treatment.

[00:29:23.84] spk_2:
Exactly courtly. That’s the fact that health and healthcare premiums were a major issue concern. Yeah.

[00:29:24.64] spk_1:
So this, this is a very compassionate group and, and has been for years as you, you know, you, so I like that, I appreciate you bringing in the larger perspective beyond you know, the year that I’m looking

[00:29:35.16] spk_2:
at this

[00:29:36.56] spk_1:
is this is uh these are, these are tender, compassionate folks.

[00:29:41.14] spk_2:
Yeah, absolutely. I well, very

[00:29:44.82] spk_1:
Uplifting to me at, at 60 years old. It’s very uplifting.

[00:32:01.94] spk_2:
I think that every generation is obviously going through their unique cultural, social political moments in which shape their values, right? And beliefs in what’s happening this generation is, you know, our younger gen z, our oldest gen, z’s are 18 to 24 year olds are getting out of high school in the middle of a pandemic going into college, you know, having these kinds of experiences that we’ve all had over the last 2 to 3 years. I think that what you are seeing here, especially in the 2021 compilation here, is that there there’s some struggles and they want, they want to help others because they’re personally affected by a lot of this stuff. And I think that if you look at this and say, well I don’t see things like other nonprofits are working on, it’s because this is the situation they’re in and that shapes one’s perception of what needs to be helped because they’re the ones also in the same camp of ones that need help in general. I’d also make another kind of comment around the compassion pieces that, you know, when we did the 10 years of the Millennial Impact project with the Case Foundation that I led that research for, we would consistently see patterns like this too, But wasn’t what was interesting in that one, although we didn’t ask things around mental health, although it would have been very nice. Now, looking back, you know, as a researcher, like it would have been great if we would have tracked that for 10 years, but we always tracked actions, participation issues and so forth. And the issues have always been somewhat similar somewhat. There’s some differences, Social justice versus civil rights were often in that sort of top three and so forth. But what hasn’t changed is sort of this desire to help their fellow appear because of them going through a situation like I remember there were 2 to 3 years the millennial impact project. This is probably studies like six years ago, seven years ago, eight years ago where it was debt getting a job and employment because they’re trying to come out if you look at it, you know, millennials are trying to, we just have retirement issues that we have a big boomer generation that still hadn’t retired. So you get forces that challenge employment and then you have millennials who are the one of the largest generations coming out of university, you know, Underemployment and then unemployment as well. Right, So these things affect when social issues and I don’t think that we’re, we’re kind of to our point throughout this conversation is that when you look at the perspective the person is going through, it’s not surprising to be seeing them say I want that person to have either what I have a little bit of or when I’m being affected by two

[00:33:57.74] spk_1:
very uplifting. It’s time for Tony’s take two. Oh, thank you for indulging me over the past several weeks, I’ve been promoting my plan giving accelerator class, the class starts this week all is well with the class very fulfilling and next week I’ll start promoting the next class through july No, that’s not true. So, but thanks for listening to plan giving accelerator commentary by me, um, I love doing the accelerator, I like seeing big robust classes and that’s why I promote it so much. I want there to be a lot of peer learning in which there always has been and there will be in this class too. So, so thank you for for that indulgence that’s all. And that is Tony’s take two. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for influencing young America to act with Derrick Feldmann. I gotta ask about um, I’m gonna caption it preserving democracy. Does that, does that appear? It’s, it’s not in the, it’s not in the top three that, that this report talks about. But is there, is there that, and I’m aware of your admonition, you know, that’s not a political issue. It’s a, it’s a larger, there’s a larger context to to it, but does something like that appear as an as an interest, the concern about political polarization, democracy,

[00:34:39.14] spk_2:
it’s, it didn’t hit in the top. Um, I will say that we, uh, in the fall of last year, if anybody wants to take a look at our reports at the beginning, all the way up until the election um, are reported because we, we had, we were asking questions around voting, democracy, participation, civic and so forth. There’s some stuff in there, but it was isolated a little bit, but when, when it’s in, when it’s in the rest like democracy voting and other issues, the large battery to select from. It’s, it hasn’t been in the top, it hasn’t. I know,

[00:35:24.94] spk_1:
uh, you know, it’s okay. I’m, I’m not, well, I’m a little disappointed, but I’ll be all right. You know, it’s, it’s still the compassionate I dubbed them uh, I was taking my notes that the compassionate cohort. So I’m, I’m still, I’m still largely upset. Okay. Goes to the older, yeah, the the older set. Well, well, we’re working at it too. Alright. I don’t like to go too far into politics. I just, I had to get my own personal question. So what about what, what can we say for, for nonprofits that work in spaces that you and I haven’t even talked about. Uh, I suppose they work for a medical cause. Um, anything that we haven’t, you know, we haven’t, we haven’t touched on, Do I presume your advice is don’t surrender 18-30 year olds. It’s just that you’re not among their top three or five issues, but don’t surrender the cohort or or what, what is your advice? I don’t want to.

[00:39:30.82] spk_2:
Yeah, I had somebody I was thinking this is pre pandemic, big conference speaking engagement. Somebody raised their hand and said, you know, I work for a cancer support organization and basically you’re saying I’m, I’m done and I’m like, no, I’m not, no, I’m not, I, you know, we have to recognize that this is the formative years that somebody is going through and what I always say to people to is When I think about an 18 to 30 year old in their social issues is that it’s it’s like going into a big, large space with so many options to choose from and there’s so well in tuned to get to any of those options and they’ll participate here and there and so forth. But what you see here is sort of the underlying interest in general, those things change. And by the way, we know this from our research, both millennial impact project and now those things change when someone is responsible at work for other people meaning their own management, those things change when we have spouses and partners and families and people that we have to support those things change when we make more money in advance and careers and those things also change the more educated we are in general. And so what we see right now is the interest that underlying a lot of this participation with both of those cohorts that I talked about, but it but it changes, it changes over time and as we, what we do know, even when you look at say, a boomer or a greater generation, the greatest generation or others is that it starts to narrow over time, right? It’s not so big in general participation. But what I would say is is that that, you know, I look at the mental health space and I know that there are a lot of organizations that address and touch on mental health, like there’s youth empowerment and youth organizations that do address mental health in general. And I also know from the guns issue that they the gun rights issues and you know gun safety, they work in the mental health space at times too, and for those that are wanting to attract and engage an audience, I always say to is that to what end is it just because because and this is what happens with those that might be infatuated with trying to get younger demographics because they see a data point like, you know, everybody is retiring and the transfer of like all this stuff that’s in the data point section of um, an article about older people and where the money is going to go and so forth, and I say to them, well before you focus on an 18 to 30 year old, do you have a, how effective are you with a 30 to 40 year old? How effective are you with the 40-50 year old? And what I find is is that we’re always looking for the silver bullet to engage young people, but I before that every organization has to figure out if their engagement model really works and people are really engaged regardless of age. And then you have a second thing to look at that and say, okay, if this is the case and we know their participatory, they’re taking actions are doing digital actions, doing somewhat of a passive activism and some other ways they’re getting deeper involved in things. We probably have roles for those kinds of people within our community. And so let’s create those and we may focus one or two times throughout the year to target that audience to help us out. But I’m not gonna make it about them, I’m gonna connect them to our larger thing. You know, for example, if I’m an organization that wants to get attention for something that we’re doing with our beneficiaries, with our donors have come together, you know, make it around the policy policy and activism style piece and get that we’re gonna get that population to engage with many other generations on it. It’s when we start to create siloed pieces that we get ourselves a little bit in trouble or like we’ve got this young person thing over here where I’m like, well, You know, no one looks that they are not going to say I’m doing this because I’m a young person. They’re doing it because they believe and regardless if you’re 18 or 80, you can still do and believe in the same thing and perform the same actions.

[00:39:44.42] spk_1:
Thank you. Okay. So it’s an encouragement and but don’t be, you know, don’t be chasing data points.

[00:39:51.42] spk_2:
I don’t Yeah, I mean

[00:39:57.02] spk_1:
don’t have don’t have board meetings. Look, you know, there’s research that says 18-30 year olds are interested in in a piece of what we do. You know, let’s create a program.

[00:40:02.61] spk_2:

[00:40:03.48] spk_1:
stay true to where you are. Look for points of overlap.

[00:40:19.51] spk_2:
And there’s some great consultants out there that love to pick up on this thing. Like they’ll probably look at my report which I know who they are. They look at the report and say, look, we’re pretty he’s promoting young engagement. Actually, that’s not the case. I am promoting that we engage people as you should be engaging anybody, anybody. And you need to master that before you start knitting segments. Because it would be the same thing to say if I read a report and said, you know, 50 to 60 year old people from this state are going to give more. You wouldn’t say in a board meeting, let’s create a strategy to go get that. No, no, no. Like what is our overarching plan and how do how does anybody fit into that in general?

[00:41:04.81] spk_1:
Yeah. Stay. Stay true to your mission. Always take a breath, your mission, your values. You know, center those maybe some there may be some things you can learn here, but let’s not pivot based on on the influencing young America to act.

[00:42:01.80] spk_2:
Study. Alright. No, but you should say is you know what we’ve got an upcoming event, our campaign efforts. How do we create in a way that also invites them in to be participatory that’s different than saying we’re doing it for them to say. And that’s that’s where we got it. Well, that’s the strategic thinking that we need back in place. I mean I work with brands in America that you all that, you know that our youth consumer brands that this is there like they are squarely in this space. They they have to I also work with large nonprofits or global nonprofits that this is also their target audience. They don’t do work outside of this. They focus on the formative years, you know, and I’m like got it. But for those that are very big that have all generations that they are, they’re not to appeal to one or the other. I mean, who’s going to say? I appreciate, I I don’t want your money versus this money, you know, you desire to get any dollar that kind of comes in as well. Okay,

[00:42:03.70] spk_1:
let’s uh let’s leave folks. Well, first we gotta say, where do you get, where do people get the influencing young America to act?

[00:42:12.10] spk_2:
Study? Yeah, you can see all this report that you’re talking about, which is the culmination piece from 2021 as well as all of the last four years at cause and social influence dot com and dot org. Either one will bring you there

[00:42:23.24] spk_1:
cause and social influence

[00:42:25.71] spk_2:
you dot

[00:42:26.20] spk_1:
com or causing

[00:42:27.57] spk_2:
social influence

[00:42:28.43] spk_1:
dot org

[00:42:29.70] spk_2:
either way. It’ll work out, You’ll get there either way.

[00:42:32.40] spk_1:
Okay, causing social influence. Alright, yeah. Alright. Derek, what? That was pretty inspirational, you know, I’d like to end on a upbeat note, thank you. But is there anything we, we haven’t talked about that you’d like to, you’d like to mention?

[00:45:20.69] spk_2:
Um I would say one thing and we touched on a little bit and this is something that we are spending a lot of shoot Alright, tony um please pretty good. Um and that is uh and this kind of goes to the bubble that sometimes we live in in general and especially when it comes to the spaces of like who’s engaged with us, who isn’t, who’s involved and so on and the word engagement is so fluid, everybody has to define it for themselves. But and I wrote a recent article about this is that a lot of people, young americans, all americans um are kind of sitting in this a place where they need nudging, they need nudges, they need that that piece to get them involved in something. And they’re also not sitting there attending rallies that we think they are going to every protest, you know, doing all of these kinds of things that sometimes we perceive them to be that that if you look at at the end of the day, we have empathetic, compassionate, interested people in the social issues that personally affect them and the people around them. The real question becomes is how do we get past those that make the loudest noise and participate the most to get to the people that are sitting a little bit outside on the sidelines, waiting for that right moment in that right nudge. And that’s where you should be spending your time creating the campaigns and the efforts. And we have been specifically looking at, you know, and and even we’re talking about in the, in the next year to to next year, this year to um start to exclude those that are overly active. They skew the way we think about data as well. Uh you know, we’ll report on them, but say, you know those that are performing tons of actions a month is your Uber involved person. And once you throw that in there, just like you wouldn’t throw in the $100 million donor on your analysis of all the people that gave 0 to 100 it’s gonna skew things the way we look at it in general and so you have to do and be incredibly diligent to take out those that are overly involved and really center where you’re trying to go to, you’re gonna find that those people are are want to be informed, they really don’t know you, they probably have never heard about you and are looking for that moment in that nudge to probably do something that’s different than what those people who are surrounding you. Tell you.

[00:45:41.39] spk_1:
Terrific, good and great insights. Thank you, I am too. Thank you. Thank you for terrific ideas. Derrick Feldmann. He’s at Derrick Feldmann. Remember to ours to ends. Thank you very much Derek.

[00:45:42.52] spk_2:

[00:46:14.78] spk_1:
absolutely. I will. Thank you next week. We don’t have any more Derricks. We had to Derek’s in a row. No more Derricks. But how about AmY sample ward visits To talk about the 2022 nonprofit technology conference which is coming up in March. Many support visits, visits. Sounds like mr Rogers, I’m too Who writes this copy? I I need an intern so I can blame for this visit copy. It’s there. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com. I do need I do need an intern to blame. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o.

[00:46:49.08] spk_0:
Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. The shows, social media is by Susan Chavez. Marc Silverman is our web guy. And this music is by scott stein. Yeah, thank you for the information scotty. You’re with me next week for nonprofit radio big nonprofit ideas for the The other 95% go out and be great.

Nonprofit Radio for August 30, 2021: Decolonizing Wealth

My Guest:

Edgar Villanueva: Decolonizing Wealth

Edgar Villanueva’s book, “Decolonizing Wealth,” takes an innovative look at the purpose of wealth. His thesis is that the solutions to the damage and trauma caused by American capitalism, including philanthropy—can be gleaned from the values and wisdom of our nation’s original people. He’s a Native American working in philanthropy. (Originally aired 11/30/18)




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Board relations. Fundraising. Volunteer management. Prospect research. Legal compliance. Accounting. Finance. Investments. Donor relations. Public relations. Marketing. Technology. Social media.

Every nonprofit struggles with these issues. Big nonprofits hire experts. The other 95% listen to Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio. Trusted experts and leading thinkers join me each week to tackle the tough issues. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

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[00:02:21.14] spk_1:
Yeah. Hello and welcome to Tony-Martignetti non profit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be hit with hyper guard Dallas the asia Footnote one If you tickled me with the idea that you missed this week’s show de colonizing wealth. Edgar Villanueva’s book de colonizing wealth takes an innovative look at the purpose of wealth. His thesis is that the solutions to the damage and trauma caused by american capitalism, including philanthropy can be gleaned from the values and wisdom of our nation’s original people. He’s a native american working in philanthropy, This originally aired 30 November 2018 Antonis take two gratitude all day. We’re sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. And by sending blue the only all in one digital marketing platform, empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in blue. Let us begin here is de colonizing wealth. It’s my great pleasure to welcome to the studio Edgar Villanueva, He’s a nationally recognized expert on social justice philanthropy. He chairs the board of native americans in philanthropy and is a board member of the Andrews Family Fund, Working to improve outcomes for vulnerable youth. He’s an instructor with the grantmaking school at Grand Valley State University and serves as vice president of programs and advocacy at the shot Foundation for Public Education. He’s held leadership roles at Kate b Reynolds charitable trust in north Carolina and marguerite Casey Foundation in Seattle, Edgar is an enrolled member of the lumbee tribe of north Carolina. You’ll find him at de colonizing wealth dot com and at Villanueva Edgar, you’re welcome to studio.

[00:02:22.29] spk_0:
Thank you. tony Pleasure to be here.

[00:02:23.87] spk_1:
Congratulations on the book. Thank you. Which just came out last month was october

[00:02:28.33] spk_0:
october 16th.

[00:02:29.31] spk_1:
Yes. Alright. And you just had a very nice interview with the new york times?

[00:02:33.16] spk_0:

[00:02:34.14] spk_1:
congratulations on that. They perhaps perhaps perhaps you for nonprofit radio

[00:02:37.66] spk_0:
Right, right. I’m ready. All

[00:03:25.24] spk_1:
your, all your media appearances to date have brought you to this moment. Right. So it’s all culminated here. Um, I promised listeners, footnote one, footnote 12. hyper guard Alice these asia. Uh, of course, anybody listens to the show knows that I open with something funny like that. A disease. Every single show. Uh but in Edgar’s book, he mentions hyper guard anesthesia. So this is the first time Over 400 shows that the, that the guest unknowingly has uh, provided the opening disease state. So thank you very much. You didn’t know what we do that every single show. Um you didn’t know that you’re not listening to nonprofit radio It’s it’s your life. All right. Um, okay. De colonizing wealth. Uh, you’re you’re, you’re a bit of a troublemaker

[00:03:30.54] spk_0:
a little bit.

[00:03:33.34] spk_1:
Yeah. You’re raising some eyebrows. Uh,

[00:03:33.76] spk_0:
someone told me yesterday that I was the Colin Kaepernick of philanthropy, which I was like, I haven’t thought about it that way, but

[00:04:04.94] spk_1:
that’s not also bad. Get a little closer to the mic so people can hear you. Yeah, just get not almost intimate with it almost. Um, I used to call myself the charlie Rose of charities until he blew that gig for me. You know, he ruined that. Uh, can’t use that any longer. Um, because you talk about uh, colonizer virus and exploitation and division. Um, like these are bad things.

[00:04:06.84] spk_0:
Yes, they are bad thing. What

[00:04:09.48] spk_1:
uh, what is the, what’s the colonizer virus? Why do we need to de colonize

[00:04:46.74] spk_0:
so many of us who work in philanthropy or even the non profit sector, um, you know, have this firewall that we are completely disconnected from, um, Wall Street or from capitalism or, or some of those uh, processes and systems in our country that may have a negative connotation for the good doers. But in philanthropy, we are not very far, you know, disconnected from uh, corporate America. Most of this wealth was made by corporations and businesses, um, sometimes, uh, not in the best ways, not in the

[00:04:50.24] spk_1:
backs of a lot of indigenous and colored people.

[00:05:10.14] spk_0:
Yeah. When you look at the history of the accumulation of wealth in this country is steeped in trauma. Right? And so legacy wealth that has been inherited for generations. Now, folks may not even know the origin of their family’s wealth, but you know, when we look back and we see in general how wealth was accumulated. Um, you know, especially I’m from the south north Carolina, we’ll talk about that. Um, there absolutely was the legacy of slavery and stolen lands that, that help contribute to the massive wealth.

[00:05:23.04] spk_1:
And you feel there are a lot of lessons we can learn from the values of native americans.

[00:06:09.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So you know, we as a, people talk about healing a lot. We have a lot of trauma that exists in our communities. Um, you know, because colonization as we often think about it as something that happened five years ago in north Carolina, especially where I’m from, we were the first point of contact, but colonization and the, the acts of separation and exploitation are still continuing present day. And so in my community, native communities across the country, even as recent as my grandparents generation kids were forcibly removed from their homes and put into boarding schools. And so we’re still, we’re experiencing a lot of trauma as a result of these practices, but we are a resilient people and those who are closest to a lot of the problems that we are trying to solve today as a society, have a lot of answers and wisdom that we can bring to the table.

[00:06:22.24] spk_1:
You say that the natives are

[00:06:23.73] spk_0:
the original philanthropists.

[00:06:44.94] spk_1:
Um, now you’re a member of the lumbee tribe of north Carolina. Uh, Robinson county north Carolina, which, which is not too far from where I own. I own a home in Pinehurst, which is a little north and west I think of, of Robinson County lumber. So the lumbee tribe, I assume the lumber river is named for the lum bees and Lumberton. The town

[00:06:49.90] spk_0:
named for lambis. Right? So love bees were actually named after the lumber river after river came first. Yeah, the river came first and so certainly the river came from

[00:07:00.26] spk_1:
the name of the river

[00:07:10.04] spk_0:
came from rivers been there much longer than, Yeah. So we are, you know, a hodgepodge of historical tribes that were in coastal north Carolina. Um, that I came together to form the lumbee tribe and named ourselves after that river.

[00:07:40.94] spk_1:
Um, and we’re gonna come back to uh, native americans as the, as the original philanthropists. But uh, that, that struck me a lot. I think you, you say, you say that the end of the, at the end of the book is where I, where I caught it. Um, uh, we just have like a minute and a half or so before the break. So just we’re introducing this, we’ve got plenty of time together, wealth. You say divides us, controls us, exploits us. What’s that about?

[00:08:01.84] spk_0:
So the accumulation of wealth. So money in itself is neutral wealth in itself, I say is, is neutral, but it’s the way that wealth has been accumulated in this country that has caused harm when we value when we, you know, fear and were motivated by greed. Um, the acts that can result as a, as a result of that to exploit the land and to exploit people or what that’s what has caused the harm in itself. So, um, the case that I’m going to make in this book that I’m making in this book is that wealth and money can actually be used for the good. If it historically has been used as a negative thing that has caused trauma, we can flip that to use it for something that can actually help repair the harm that has been done. You’ve got seven,

[00:09:10.04] spk_1:
6, 6 steps to that second half of your book. It’s time for a break. Turn to communications. They’ll help you find your voice and get that voice heard in the right places. Places like the Wall Street Journal, the new york Times, the Chronicle of philanthropy, fast Company Market Watch and lots of others you’ve heard me name. They’ll help you find your voice and get it out. Turn to communications, your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot c o. Now back to de colonizing wealth. *** tony-martignetti Uh, that is your indian name. Did I by any chance say that correctly.

[00:09:13.13] spk_0:
I think that’s correct. I’m a little shabby with my Ojibwe these days. You

[00:09:17.72] spk_1:
don’t know your, you know,

[00:09:18.75] spk_0:
you know that sounds, but

[00:09:25.84] spk_1:
that is your indian name. Uh, leading bird, uh, tell the story of how you got that name. Well, welcome back to don’t welcome back to the exploitation and control, don’t we? Yeah, this is a good story, how you got that name.

[00:11:55.54] spk_0:
So my tribe, the lumbee tribe in north Carolina doesn’t have a tradition of naming you are, whatever your mom calls you, that’s your name. Right. Right. So, um, but when I, when I was working in north Carolina and native communities, I went to a conference where there is a medicine man and some, when the medicine man was meeting with folks who wanted time with with him to, to talk or have a session and growing up in north Carolina, my identity as a native has always been quite complicated. We didn’t have these types of practices in my home in Raleigh north Carolina. And so, but I was very curious to meet with this medicine man and to um see what could happen from that encounter. And someone told me if you’re, if you’re really lucky when you meet with the medicine man, they might give you a spiritual name or a native name. Um, and so I met with this guy in the Marriott hotel in denver colorado or this, this native health conference. So it was all uh, tell the story in the book is quite um hilarious and in many ways, but at the end of our session where I was feeling um excited about, you know, the conversation we had but also a little confused and skeptical in some ways because I’ve, you know, had such a colonized ways of thinking. Um he did offer me a native name, Naghani pinochet, which means leading bird. Um, so I was very honored and my first thought was, what kind of bird? Right am I a little tweety bird or am I mighty eagle birds are best? So um he explained to me that I was the type of bird that flies in a V. Formation. Um, and as I when I left I studied these birds and and they’re the leading bird. I’m the leading birds leading bird. I’m the bird that flies in the front of the V. Formation, which is the kind of leader that is often visible but really understand its co dependence and interdependence on the other birds. And so if you watch birds flying in a V. Formation, it’s really like an amazing natural national phenomenon, how how they communicate and fly together. Uh the other thing that’s remarkable about the leading birds type of leadership is that it often will fly to the back of the pack and push another bird forward. So it’s not always the one that’s out front. And um when I, when I learned these characteristics, um I just felt really, um I was really, really happy and content about this name because I do see that’s the type of leadership that I model in my everyday life and I think it’s the type of leadership that’s really important for the nonprofit sector.

[00:12:32.04] spk_1:
You explain how the birds communicate, which I’ve always wondered, uh, they’re, they’re just close enough that they can feel vibrations off each other and micro movements. I think you say off each other, but they’re not so close that they’re gonna bump into each other and, and you know, be injured. But that’s how they, and I guess they’re feeling the breeze off each other and sensing these micro movements of each other. So they’re that close but not so close. They’re gonna be injured, right?

[00:13:00.84] spk_0:
It’s very, it’s very fascinating. It’s like a scientific, uh, you know, gPS built into their bodies. And the other thing I recently heard about these birds, um, is that you don’t ever find one that dies alone. And so, you know, I want to learn research that a little bit more. But I think when they’re when someone is down or you know, there’s an injury or whatever may happen. Uh, they, there’s there’s a certain way that they take care of each other. And so um, you know, it just kind of speaks to our common humanity and are interrelated, you know, being interrelated and

[00:13:21.14] spk_1:
exactly our interdependence. Now this is a, this is an indigenous belief that we are all related and that’s what it makes me think of. The birds also absolutely working so closely together that they feel micro movements. But how explain this this belief that we are, each of one of us related to the, to all the other.

[00:14:34.54] spk_0:
Yeah. So there there is a native belief um all my relations that means um you’re, all of our suffering is mutual, all of our thriving is mutual and uh you know we are, we are interdependent and so it’s a very different mindset or worldview from sort of the american individualistic type of mindset. Um we also have connected to that viewpoint is this idea of seven generations. So not only are we all related, you know, in this room right now and that we’re relatives um and we are related to the land and to the animals around us, but all of the things, all of the decisions and um that we are making today are going to impact future generations. So there’s an idea that I am someone’s ancestor and so what our responsibility to move through the world in a way that is thinking that far forward about our um our young people. And so these are concepts that were taught to me by my family, but also in recent years this book gave me the opportunity to revisit and spend time with indigenous elders to remember these teachings and and to think about how to apply them in my work

[00:14:54.74] spk_1:
and you encourage us to each that each one of us takes responsibility for as you said, were thriving and suffering together. Um what I’m referring to is the each of us takes responsibility for the colonizer virus. Say more about that.

[00:14:55.96] spk_0:
Yeah, so you know, I think are we all responsible?

[00:14:58.94] spk_1:
We’re all

[00:15:11.24] spk_0:
responsible because we’re all affected. Um, I think some folks, when we, you know, we learn about colonization in schools is something that seems pretty normal, right? We um, we think of colonization and the colonizers as heroes like the natural path of progress. Absolutely

[00:15:17.37] spk_1:
way it’s learned,

[00:16:11.34] spk_0:
right? We have holidays, you know, for for Christopher columbus for example. And so but the realities are that colonization um, was something that was terrible that resulted in genocide and all types of exploitation. And uh, that type of history that we have in this country is something that we um, as as the people have not come to terms with, we actually we don’t tell the truth, we don’t face the truth. And so I think we’re still dealing with the consequences. Um, and so the dynamics of colonization which are uh, to divide to control, to exploit, to separate those dynamics. Um, you know, I I refer to them as the colonizing virus, because they they are still in our bodies as as a nation. They show up in our policies, our systems reflect the colonizer virus and in our institutions in the nonprofit sector, and especially in philanthropy, where we are sitting on lots of money, privilege and power.

[00:16:20.24] spk_1:
Uh, these

[00:17:25.54] spk_0:
naturally to your point about us, them organizations go ahead. So, you know, I think the philanthropy, for example, can perpetuate, um, you know, the dynamics of colonization because when you look at um uh where this where this money came from and how we as a sector don’t face the realities of that truth. When you look at ask the question of why this money was held back from public coffers, um that, you know, had it gone into the tax system, it would be supporting the safety net and vulnerable communities. Um And when you look at who gets to allocate, manage and spend it, you see a very um white dominant kind of mindset happening because for example, if we get into the numbers just a little bit um foundation set on $800 billion of assets. That’s a lot of money that has been uh you know, sheltered from taxation. That’s money that would have gone into public education, health care, elder care, um things that we need for the infrastructure of our communities, but that money has been put there with little to no accountability. Um Private foundations are only required by the I. R. S. To uh pay out 5% of their assets. And so then, you know, you’re looking at just a small percentage of money that was intended to be for the public good. Only a small percentage is actually leaving the doors being invested in community. Let’s assume

[00:18:11.04] spk_1:
it’s uh I know there are a lot of Foundations that use that five minimum as their maximum. So that’s so 5% of that would be $40 billion. Uh So the counter is, but there’s $40 billion coming Each year. Could be more, but let’s take the minimum just to be conservative. And you know, we’re trying to preserve this uh this foundation capital for perpetuity. So if, you know, if we if we spent in the next two years, the 800 billion, then we wouldn’t have anything left for future, just future years and other generations were trying to, you know, we want to be around for in perpetuity. The foundations would say,

[00:19:26.24] spk_0:
right, right. And you know, I think I think there is a case to be made for saving some funds for a rainy day in the future. But the truth is that 5%, when Congress had acted that 5% role, Um it actually began at 6%, I believe in 1974. And then in 1976 was lowered to 5%. The reason that Congress had to actually put this legislation forward is because foundations were not paying out any money. And so when you think about the intent of foundations, are they being started to actually benefit the public? Are are wealthy wealthy 1% or whoever corporations starting these foundations just for the sake of having A tax break. And so that that uh IRS minimum payout of 5%. That rule was put in place to force um foundations to actually begin making grants. And so, you know, so it is sort of the other thing to explore if you are with a 95%, that is not leaving the doors. Um, if the intention is really to do good in communities, we have to look at how that 95% is then being invested too, generate more money for future grantmaking And the truth there is that the majority of those funds are tied up and harmful and extract extractive industries, um, that are counterintuitive to the mission of foundation. You make the point

[00:20:20.74] spk_1:
often uh, that often right, Those investments are in our industries that are hurting the very populations that the foundation is explicitly trying to help through its, through its mission. And, and in fact funding um, the uh, something else that was going to ask about the, the way the money is. Um, All right, we’ll come back to it if I think of it. Um, there’s there’s a lot that organizations can gain by hiring people of color indigenous people. What uh, and and very few. You’re, you’re a rare exception. Um, working in, in found doing foundation work. Uh, what’s the, make explicit those uh, those advantages?

[00:20:49.64] spk_0:
Sure. So you’re right. I’m absolutely um an exception. I think when I started in philanthropy, I was one of 10 native Americans that I could find, we kind of found each other. What year was that? Uh, this was in 2005 And we are now, there’s about 25 of us now, the last time I counted. Um, so yeah, there’s, there’s, you know, an amazing opportunity for foundations and I think more and more foundations are understanding to bring folks in uh, 22 foundations that have lived experience

[00:21:12.64] spk_1:
and not only foundations but nonprofits and Ngos doing the groundwork. Absolutely foundations of the funders. And of course some foundations are now actually doing their own groundwork. We’re seeing that emerging, but, but for the nonprofits doing the day to day work

[00:21:15.21] spk_0:
as well

[00:21:16.01] spk_1:
represent the communities that you’re

[00:22:06.94] spk_0:
absolutely, it kind of makes sense, right? And uh, you know, it’s funny because some foundations actually require that of non profits. They ask about the diversity of their staff and their board, but they themselves have no type of, you know, values around diversity of their staff. But you’re, you know, the point is that for sure that any non profit or foundation to, to have folks uh, that that work there who have authentic accountability to community and understand and have been impacted by the issues that you’re trying to solve is going to bring an awareness and um, you know about the problem in a different way. It’s going to create some proximity that I think is gonna just inform strategies. That that makes sense. And I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve been in strategic planning processes and board meetings where decisions were being made and I always carry my mother, my family with me, you know, in spirit, into the room and I hear these decisions are these conversations and I’m thinking like, oh my God, like you know this, you know, this this would not in any way help my mother or my family that still living in poverty. Decision makers disconnected, there’s such a disconnect.

[00:23:12.94] spk_1:
Yeah, um and I I thought of what I was going to ask you about or just comment on the Foundation wise, we do see some Foundation saying that they’re going to spend down their assets. Uh I wouldn’t say it’s a needle moving, but you do hear that from time to time, that there’s a foundation that’s committed now to spending its its assets down, you know, uh was paul Allen, was that uh not paul Allen the Microsoft? I think the Microsoft founder, co founder who recently died, I think his foundation was paul Allen Okay, okay. Uh I was thinking of steve Allen comedy all comic, that’s why I thought, no, it wasn’t him, but it was paul Allen, I think his foundation is one, but there are some, so we do hear some glimmers, but you say in the book a few times people we need to move the needle.

[00:24:15.24] spk_0:
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think deciding to spin down is a very progressive way of thinking about it. There’s so much need now um if we actually release the funds or even if you don’t want to spend down, you can make a decision to pay out more. Um there there’s a lot of amazing work happening um right now that is so under resource that if we could um support and get behind investing money in these various movements and these uh in communities of color which are so marginalized by philanthropy, you know, uh the 5% that is being invested, only 7 to 8% of those dollars are being invested in communities of color. That would make a big difference. And so I think um you know, I think it’s a conversation that the boards of Foundation should think about, what is the value of, you know, why why do we want to stay in perpetuity? Like what is that about a family legacy? Is that really about making a difference in the world? Because in some ways it feels I can see that has been a very selfish type of uh you know, uh way of thinking,

[00:24:33.24] spk_1:
if this was CNN right now, I would I would play a video of you, but I don’t I don’t have that. But in your in your times, uh we have to work on that at talking alternative, we need we need video capture and screens and everything. Uh in your video, in your interview with David Bernstein new York times, uh you said by not investing more in communities of color philanthropy? Venture capital, impact investing in finance are missing out on rich opportunities to learn about solutions.

[00:25:52.34] spk_0:
Yeah. You know, I think that I think of, you know, people of color indigenous folks as being the canaries in the coal mine sometimes when, when policies fail or systems fail, um, we hurt the hardest and uh, but there’s just something so magical about and sense of pride that I have about my community because we are so resilient regardless of um, you know, all of the trauma, the colonization, the um, you know, genocide stolen land, we still remain intact as a people. Um, and so there’s, there’s gotta be something magical about that resilience that I would, if I weren’t native, I would be interested to know like what, when you think about sustainability, you know, we have a corner on sustainability. Um, indigenous peoples around the world are on the frontlines of saving this planet on, you know, um, you know, really fighting for environmental protections. Um, there, there’s so much wisdom and you know, often foundations roll out new theories of changes are changes are see strategies or there’s a new model or theory theory of change that comes up and I’m like, wow, we’ve been doing that in our communities for years. If someone would have asked us, you know, maybe we can get there faster.

[00:26:00.64] spk_1:
Is there still a lumbee community in Robinson robeson county?

[00:26:04.27] spk_0:
Yes, there are, there are about 60,000 enrolled members in the lumbee tribe. The bulk of our community is still in Robertson County

[00:26:12.59] spk_1:
now have a north Carolina driver’s license. Will that, will that get me in? Can I be a member?

[00:26:17.86] spk_0:
You know, we were very inclusive. We, we, we’ll take, we’ll adopt you as an honorary brother, but you have to have a little bit more documentation to get officially enrolled. So it’s, it’s a stretch for an italian american with north Carolina license

[00:27:18.24] spk_1:
player and, uh, driver’s license. All right. Um, you, you talk about, you know, I guess, I mean, we’re skirting around these things, Make it explicit the power imbalance, you know, that, um, minorities are seeking it. And uh, mostly middle aged white guys are, are doling it out. Uh, you know, piecemeal, um, the, the imbalance, you know, the grant, even the, even the word, you know, the granting, it’s like some, uh, I don’t know, it’s like some holy orders has, has bestowed upon you something that’s a gift when, uh, your, your belief is that your thesis in the book is that it’s, it’s a, it’s a right equally held by all,

[00:27:46.44] spk_0:
yeah. You know, I think power and money, A lot of, a lot of this does come down to power and ownership. Um, we are talking in the nonprofit sector right now, a lot about equity, right? And equity is very different from diversity and inclusion. Um, to me, equity really is all about shifting power. And we often think about that from the lens of equality. So we’re going to have the same power, which is a good thing. But to really achieve equity, it’s gonna actually require that some folks who have had power for a long amount of time give up more power to take a

[00:27:54.36] spk_1:
back seat. So that’s not gonna happen. You know, that’s, that’s highly unlikely. Like infant is really small, unlikely.

[00:28:27.24] spk_0:
You know, it’s, it’s a hard thing for people to, uh, to think about. And especially if you have, if you’ve been privileged for so long, um, equity might actually feel like oppression for you, right? Because it’s like, you know, well, I, I, I have less than I’ve had. So, um, but you know, we, I want to think about this through an abundance of my frame. There’s enough, there’s enough resources, enough power to go around. Um, we just have to work together to make sure that we are privileging those who have not been privileged by that problem.

[00:32:43.94] spk_1:
So I love that you, you approach it from a position of abundance and not, not scarcity. It’s time for Tony’s take to gratitude all day. This is coming up just next week. So this is something for folks that are listening to the show very quickly after it’s published. No, wait, what am I saying next week? Yeah, it’s this week. It’s this week september 1st and second. It’s gratitude all day, september 1st and second Wednesday and thursday, it’s online, It’s a live stream, you join and share with the world your gratitude. What are you grateful for health, your family, friends, good drinks, prosperity, uh safety. Uh you know, I’m thinking things that well, I don’t want to share my gratitude, I’m doing that, you’ll, you’ll hear what I’m doing mine, I can’t give you mine now, I can’t do that now. So I’m trying to think of what your gratitude might be. Uh wonderful vacation blossoming flowers over the summer. Uh you got approved for your life insurance policy, you bought your new home, you sold your old home, your kids are starting college, your kids are leaving college, whatever you’re grateful for you get the idea, you join the live stream on Wednesday and thursday the 1st and 2nd and you share it with the world whatever you’re grateful for now, The best time to do this is 7-9 eastern on Wednesday september 1st because that’s the part that I’ll be hosting. See, there are different hosts throughout hosts throughout the 24 hours and I’m the hostess for 7 to 9 p.m. Eastern Wednesday night. The whole thing runs from one p.m. On Wednesday to one pm Thursday. So the best time to share your slot, share your gratitude is my slot because that’s you know, you don’t want to take a chance with with a lackluster host when you can have a lackluster host of your segment. So 79 p. M. That’s, that’s the best time to share your gratitude, although you certainly can do it anytime during the 24 hours. And where do you get all the info for gratitude all day. It’s very simple. You go to gratitude rising dot org Now if you can’t join us because you didn’t listen to the podcast the day or the day after it was published, then just do your own gratitude. You don’t have to share it with the world. Do you? Do you do daily gratitude? You know what that is in the morning when you wake up, you you just, you’re beyond the twilight zone, but you haven’t gotten out of bed yet. A couple of minutes devoted to daily gratitude. Now I don’t do it daily, but I do it often verbalizing, saying them out loud, verbalizing the things that you are grateful for, think through and go into depth about the things I’m grateful for just talking to myself, but saying them out loud. So if you can’t join us for gratitude all day, do your own day gratitude and hopefully daily gratitude that way. But I love the idea of just gratitude, giving thanks and sharing it if you can. But even even saying it out loud is, you know, sharing it with yourself. It makes a difference saying it out loud versus just thinking about it. It does, That’s gratitude and that is Tony’s take two. Now back to de colonizing wealth. Now I want to go back to Edgar Villanueva. Edgar. Villanueva. See, I thought he would pronounce his name. Edgar And I was wrong. And but that’s that’s why I said Edgar. But it’s Edgar. Edgar. A gravel in river. And de colonizing wealth. Welcome back. You didn’t go far.

[00:32:45.10] spk_0:
Thanks for having me. Okay. I’ll still be here. Yes, absolutely.

[00:33:06.44] spk_1:
You haven’t done anything that would lead me to shut your mic off. Um It hasn’t happened, I’ve threatened, but it hasn’t happened. So let’s, let’s start getting uh positive. You know, the second, roughly the second half of your book is seven steps to healing. Um, And uh, I thought you came up like five short. I mean, we have another 12 steps. I mean, if you want to, if you want to share power, you’re gonna have to have, you got to step it up with like 12 steps or, or even 15, you know, you have more than the colonizers. Uh, but but the seven steps are in themselves. They’re they’re pretty radical.

[00:33:33.64] spk_0:
Yeah. You know, it’s funny because I did have some resistance to having seven steps, right? Because it makes it seem like there’s a there’s a quick and easy fix. If I just do these seven things, then we’re done with this and we can move on

[00:33:38.37] spk_1:
prime number. So that

[00:33:56.14] spk_0:
I think that’s that’s unique. I don’t know why, but yeah, so, you know, but I did need to simplify the process in some ways just to help us get our minds around, uh, you know, a process that we can begin. but there is no linear way or a quick way to um, to solve, all these problems or to, to undo what has been done. But there are ways to, to, to move forward and the steps to healing for me where are

[00:34:07.42] spk_1:
listening out for us, just list all seven and then we’ll

[00:34:17.64] spk_0:
talk about, I’m sure. So they’re grieve, apologize, listen, relate, represent, invest and repair. Okay.

[00:34:22.54] spk_1:
Um, so you’ve been thinking about this for a while. I mean this, uh, I just did, I admire though. I admire the thinking that goes into this.

[00:35:30.24] spk_0:
Yeah. So some of it comes from my own personal experience, um, when it kind of coming to terms and with the sector that I’m working in and the disconnection that I felt as a native person in the space and spending time in my community to just re ground myself and my values and um, and kind of acknowledging the wisdom that was in my body and in my community that I could bring to the space. Um, the other parts of it come from, I did lots of interviews with folks who work in nonprofits and philanthropy who were, I think of very forward thinking people in the space activists who are leading movements around the country to get to a place of, you know, what, what, what have you gone through personally to kind of reconcile some of this. Um, and then, you know, a lot of this is also based on an indigenous restorative justice model. So we hear a lot about restorative justice um, in the nonprofit sector. Now, this is a method that’s used in schools and in the criminal justice system to help people deal with things that have gone wrong to kind of get back on the right track. And so this is a model that has come from indigenous communities where we um sit in circle with the offender with someone who has harmed us or done us wrong to get to a place of truth and reconciliation.

[00:35:58.84] spk_1:
So, uh, grieving, uh, you say everybody, I mean because of our inter relatedness where we all need to grieve, including the people of color and indigenous, you know, those who have been oppressed.

[00:37:06.43] spk_0:
Absolutely, we all need to grieve. Um, we need to get to a place where we’re just very clear and honest about the history of this country. What has happened, what the idea of, um, you know, white supremacy, which is not a real thing, right? But why the idea of subscribing to that the harm and the loss that has calls for people of color, but also white people. And uh, you know, I think that’s uh, we it’s pretty clear the trauma and the harm that has been caused a community of color. It’s not so clear. We don’t talk about it very much the loss that uh, the colonization and uh, the idea of white supremacy has actually caused in white communities. But it’s uh, it is, there is a loss there. I talk about it in the book um, of the idea that white people came from from communities where they had cultures and uh tribal ways of, of interacting in many cases um languages and things that were given up in order to assimilate to this idea of being american. And I think now we’re seeing folks feeling a sense of loss about that. That’s why if you see these commercials for these DNA tests are so popular right now because everyone wants to kind of remember where they’re from and they feel connected to that in some way.

[00:37:34.63] spk_1:
Um, and um the the thing you talk about too is uh the orphans orphans, you say that those of us who are descendants of, of the, of the settlers you call us orphans, how’s that

[00:38:54.42] spk_0:
I call them orphans. This is a term apart from some research that has been done on whiteness and it is, it’s kind of speaking to this idea of loss. Again, sort of giving up the culture that maybe from from, from the home country, from where where folks, settlers came from giving up those, those ways of being interacting in community to subscribe to this individualistic way of being in America. And so with that there’s been a lost of sort of that, that mother country um for lots of white folks and a loss of identity because although, you know, I’m not anti american, let me be very clear about that, this is the greatest country in the world. I’m very proud to be a citizen of this country. Um, but there is something about leaving behind and not remembering where you originated from in order to adopt sort of this new culture here. Um you know, and and not um that that makes you feel sort of like an orphan. If you’re not, you have no connection to where your grandparents or from or the language they spoke with, the culture they have. Um and I feel that that’s a loss for many white communities. That is actually a feeling that is shared with communities of color. Um, and if we recognize that loss in that trauma that we have in common, um it opens doors for a different type of conversation about race.

[00:38:58.32] spk_1:
You said a few minutes ago that white supremacy is is not a real not real. Why? Why do you say that? Well, I mean, there’s a white supremacist movement, uh, how are you thinking about it that you say it’s not real?

[00:39:41.42] spk_0:
Um Well, well, the idea that that uh, you know, a certain group of people, white people are superior because of the pigment of their skin is not a real thing. Right? So this wasn’t an ideology that was created um in order to be able to have the types of oppressive movements and systems and policies that have been put in place for many years. And so it is a mindset that has been uh you know, an idea that is not real, but we have built systems and um societal norms around that. You know, growing up I was taught that you know, are sort of the default for me was whiteness, was was better. And so if I were to behave or dress or act in a certain way that appeared to be more white than that was going to be a better thing for me. And so we know that the idea of white supremacy is, you know, the idea of it is not real, but there are very real implications and for how we have adopted that, that belief. All right.

[00:40:11.71] spk_1:
Um and you’re you also encourage uh nonprofits and teams to have a grieving space while we’re talking about, we’re talking about grieve, we just have about a minute before a break, but and then we’ll move on with the seven steps, but what’s a grieving space in an office.

[00:40:54.31] spk_0:
Yeah. So you know, these these steps are our personal, but it can be applied in organizational setting. And so I think especially those of us working in the nonprofit where we’re supporting communities, we need to have space spaces in our in our our work live to be able to talk about bad things that have happened and to grieve that and to feel emotion to be human about it. And so, you know, I share some research in the book and some antidotes of folks who have have done that, and the research shows that there um it’s actually um leads to a much more productive workplace to have moments where we we stopped the work to actually grieve and acknowledge the events are happening, you know, in our communities.

[00:41:33.91] spk_1:
The book is de colonizing wealth, just, just, just get the book, you know, because we can only scratch the surface of it here in an hour. But uh, de colonizing wealth dot com, that’s where you go. I like the idea of the grieving space, you know, uh acknowledge, you know, everything doesn’t go well all the time. It’s impossible. No organization succeeds 100% nothing. So give yourselves time and space to talk about it, acknowledge it, learn from it and and move on rather than it being some cloud over the organization that everybody’s afraid to talk about or something, you know, it’s how how how oppressive is that

[00:41:52.91] spk_0:
very oppressive and in philanthropy is especially because we were sort of carrying around these these secrets of like how this wealth was amassed or secrets that are within these families that um, you know, many people feel bad about. And so we just need to kind of, you know, be truthful and honest about the history and spend time grieving over that so that we can move forward as you said,

[00:42:32.10] spk_1:
and and that was the next step in terms of uh, your next step apologizing recognizing which includes recognizing the source of the foundation money. I mean, you worked for the Reynolds KB is KB. Reynolds Foundation Reynolds tobacco north Carolina. You know that money was raised on the backs of slaves. Um, I’m not going to ask you if the KGB Reynolds Foundation acknowledges that, but that’s an example of what we’re talking about in the, in the step apologizing.

[00:42:35.56] spk_0:
Absolutely no, there was, there was no acknowledgement of that. And uh, chapter one of the book is called my arrival in the plantation because our foundation offices were literally on the former estate or plantation of R. J. Reynolds. And so, uh, really literally and metaphorically I was, I was working there. But no, there was, there was, there was no acknowledgement of that. And I think you see that, you know, in, in north Carolina, recently, the chancellor of the University of North Carolina acknowledged that the history of slaves and building that university and that some of the buildings there named after a former slave owners, what most people of color want. Um, it’s just to be seen and heard and for folks to make that recognition

[00:43:31.70] spk_1:
acknowledge and maybe move to apology. Perhaps that didn’t johns Hopkins University do something similar that, that they had, their founders were uh, johns Hopkins, their founders were slave owners.

[00:43:34.49] spk_0:
I think Georgetown University

[00:43:38.10] spk_1:
Georgetown. Sorry, thank you. Okay. Georgetown, there were pre right. There were priests, uh, priest founders that were slave

[00:44:16.49] spk_0:
owners. That’s right, actually, no. Um a friend of mine who lives in New Orleans as a black woman who is a descendant um and was called to Georgetown to share about her family’s history. And it was a beautiful moment. They set in community together, talking about the history talk acknowledging the contributions of her ancestors. And there’s a big right up in in the paper and you know, this has been a very uh healing I think for the university, but also from for my friend Karen, um who is now having that, you know, that recognition that the contributions of her ancestors, you talk a

[00:44:51.49] spk_1:
good bit about the reconciliation process in South Africa. Um Canada, uh you gotta get the book. I mean, we can’t we can’t tell all these stories. I mean, I know listeners, I know I know you love stories as much as I do, but there’s just not enough time to just get the damn book. Just go to de colonizing wealth dot com, for Pete’s sake. You go right now, if you’re listening live, where are you poughkeepsie? It’s connected. He uh Nottingham Maryland just go to de colonizing wealth dot com. Um okay, listening, you talk about and empathic and generative listening.

[00:46:20.28] spk_0:
Right? So, you know, often um, when we, when we moved through a process like this, we feel bad, we’ve apologized. Um uh, the default sort of like dominant culture way of being is like, okay, I’m done with that. I’m going to move forward. And so, but before you move for an act, you just need to pause to actually listen, Uh, to listen and learn. So to, uh, for, for non profits. You know, I ran a nonprofit, I’ve worked in philanthropy for 14 years. When I asked nonprofits what is the number one thing that you wish funders would do differently? The response is always, I just wish they would listen. Uh, because there’s something about having resources, money, privilege and power when we enter the room, there’s a power dynamic where we automatically feel that we can control the airspace and we have an agenda and the non profits are going to be responsive to what we want. And you know, that often is the case. But the best way to really build a relationship with folks where there is a difference in power and privileges is to actually stop and listen. Put aside your own assumptions and, and try as best you can to put yourself in their shoes to understand their experience and their history. It’s just, it’s just going to make you a better person, uh, feel like listening as a human, right? We all want to be, We all deserve to be heard. And so that is just something that we have to keep reminding folks who have privilege is to, um, to, to stop at times to also listen and to let others be hard put aside the white savior complex. Absolutely. Uh,

[00:46:51.38] spk_1:
listening. We talked about, we talked about that a lot on the show in terms of just donors. And I know you’re next, you’re next step is relating versus being transactional. And that’s, that’s, that’s the beginning of a relationship. As you said. You know, listening, genuine hearing, uh, two whether its donor’s or potential potential grantees. Um, there, there’s a lot to be learned.

[00:46:53.59] spk_0:
It goes back to the

[00:47:08.98] spk_1:
value of bringing, representing the communities that you’re, that you’re serving. Uh, okay. So relation you want us to, uh, you want to relate, let me ask you, you, you, you read, um, how to win friends and influence people. You say dozens of times. You said it doesn’t, I have trouble reading a dozen pages in a book. You’ve read one book dozens of times. Uh, what do you take away time after reading? Uh, the L Carnegie’s book dozens of times.

[00:47:37.08] spk_0:
Well, you know, I still have an original copy from that. I, um, I stole from the library of uh, my mom was a domestic worker and she was caring for frail elderly man. Um, they had this vast library. So I end up with this little book that you stole from an infirm elderly elderly man. I feel terrible about a book. It haunts me to this day. So this is a public, you

[00:47:46.10] spk_1:
didn’t even think to leave like $20 or something

[00:48:26.47] spk_0:
on the table and have it if I had it at that. All right. Um So hopefully this is my my way of giving back, this is my reparations for for that that wrong. But you know, and the one take away from me in that book uh is uh is really kind of connected to relating and listening. Um is when you’re when you’re talking to folks, people just really want to be heard. So mostly you should listen. Um And if you actually just listen more than talk, people are gonna think that you’re a great friend like well Edgar that was such a nice time with you. But even if I didn’t say much and so yeah, it’s really about listening and letting others feel that they are important because they are um you know, we I think people just feel so invisible these days that just by giving people that moment of feeling hurt and connecting with something that they are interested in. Um It’s just gonna really take you much further in building a relationship

[00:48:54.57] spk_1:
and stop the transactional, the transactional thinking. Um You have you you have an example of uh um a like building design, like office design. Kitchens, you’d love to see a kitchen in the center of of offices.

[00:49:31.07] spk_0:
Yeah. You know so sort of like these ideas of like the colonizing virus infects every aspect of our community. So yes, even the way buildings are designed especially buildings that are financial institutions. Think about what banks look like when you walk in and with with all the marble and you know, hard edges, absolutely foundation offices where you have to go through five levels of security to get in as if we’re as if the millions of dollars were in the office. Right? And so we just threw even how we design our offices. And um, you know, the way they appear can be super intimidating for folks who are coming in who need access to resources.

[00:50:45.06] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Send in blue. It’s an all in one digital marketing platform with tools to build and to end digital campaigns, They look professional, they’re affordable, they keep your campaigns organized. It’s all about digital campaign marketing. Most software. You know, it designed for big companies with big, big enterprise level price tag, sending blue is priced for nonprofits. It’s easy to use and walks you through the steps of building a digital campaign. You want to try out sending blue and get the free month. You go to the listener landing page at tony dot M A slash send in blue. We’ve got boo koo but loads more time for de colonizing wealth. Now we’ve got several more minutes for de colonizing wealth. Again, just go to de colonizing wealth dot com, get the thing, get the book just in terms of designing organizations, uh more egalitarian you’d like to see.

[00:51:35.86] spk_0:
Absolutely. So uh, one of the steps of the book is represent and what you look at the, uh, the demographics of the nonprofit sector and especially in foundations that part of the sector. We still have a long ways to go with diversity, particularly when you look at the board of directors and the ceo positions folks who really hold power in organizations. So what are the, what are the ideas that I put forth in the book? Is that foundations should have a requirement that at least 51% or at least 50% of their boards to reflect the communities they serve. Um, this would drastically change what, you know, shake up what the seats on the bus look like. But this isn’t this, uh, far from what is required of, of many nonprofits. Funders actually are, you know, requiring this, of their nonprofit, that their funding, um, and many government organizations that receive government funding, federal funding have these types of requirements that the folks who sit on the boards must be folks who are benefiting from the services of those nonprofits.

[00:51:49.40] spk_1:
Again, representative? Absolutes, yeah, that’s a, that’s a stretch. 51%.

[00:51:57.36] spk_0:
It’s a stretch. It’s a stretch. But, you know, um, the conversation has, has been zero about it. So I figured, you know, if we put something a bold vision out there to help us imagine what’s possible, maybe we’ll get a little bit further down the road.

[00:52:17.45] spk_1:
And there are some examples you cite the novo Foundation in the book. Uh, they have a women’s building that they’re, they’re repurposing some old warehouse or something to turn into this building and, and the decisions being made by, by women who are going to be using the

[00:52:45.25] spk_0:
building. Absolutely. There’s some great examples of foundations and funds that are um, really, um, putting these values into practice in their work. Novo is, is a foundation that I really appreciate. Jennifer and Peter Buffett, the founders of the Novo Foundation, wrote the forward to my book. And they are folks that you, if you get to know them, you can see that they have done this work. Um, and it shows up in how they give, they are a foundation that absolutely sits in community and listens um, to folks who are impacted by, especially women and girls, which is an issue they really care about and they fund in a way that is responsive to what they really need versus what the foundations agenda might be.

[00:53:06.85] spk_1:
Is it no vote that funds for five years or seven years? It’s guaranteed you cite this in the book, no matter how much trouble you’re having in year 123, you’re going to be funded for five or seven years for their initial commitment.

[00:53:39.05] spk_0:
Right, Right. And, and that type of long term commitment is, uh, you know, something that, that is the best type of funding, you know, folks can be, you can focus on building relationship versus so I’ve got to meet these certain objectives, so I can keep getting this money year after year and so to be relieved of that, that pressure of thinking about where am I gonna, you know, how am I going to pay the salaries next year? Um really allows folks to have the freedom to think about the actual work that they’re doing in communities

[00:53:44.55] spk_1:
and and planning and and can plans that are being

[00:53:47.42] spk_0:
one only 1 or two

[00:53:56.25] spk_1:
years. Um so we kind of mishmash together, you know, relating and representing um investing.

[00:54:44.74] spk_0:
So investing is really a call to philanthropy to think about using all of its resources for um for for the public good, right. And so we are not going to be a sector that achieves equity that that is really moving the needle issues If we’re supporting with the 5% in our right hand, Really good work, you know, mission-related work. But in our left hand we are investing 95% of our resources in um industries and causes that are extractive that are, you know, really canceling out the positive of of our resources. So, you know, there are great foundations like the Nathan Cummings Foundation for example, who just recently declare that 100% of their assets, their entire corpus is going to be used in support of their mission.

[00:54:47.29] spk_1:
Uh Again, other examples in the book and uh we just have about a minute or so before we have to wrap up actually. Um, so talk about your final step, which is

[00:55:28.04] spk_0:
the final step is repair. Um, all of us who are philanthropists are givers and as we’re getting close to the end of this year, we are all philanthropists. I’m supporting, um, nonprofits in our communities. Think about how we can use money as medicine, how can we give in a way that is helping to repair the harm that has been done by colonization in, in, in this country. And so think about looking your personal portfolio. Are you giving to at least one organization of color um, to support grassroots leadership? So reach across, um, and support folks who may not look like you invest in ways that are helping to unite us versus thinking about some of the traditional ways of giving that have not been, uh, you know, along the lines of thinking or exercising these types of values.

[00:55:50.94] spk_1:
Okay, so I’ll give you the last 30 seconds, uh, in the way that the way I learned that natives are the original philanthropists was by what you, what you talk about your mom.

[00:56:13.63] spk_0:
Yes. So, you know, I think a lot of giving, when we look at giving in this country, the biggest philanthropist, philanthropist or folks who are giving the most highest percentage of their income incomes are actually poor people. And so I do talk about my mom in the book, um, who, um, was, uh, you know, is actually very low income and but yet she gave to our community and and how to run a ministry of our church to support Children,

[00:56:18.38] spk_1:
the bus ministry,

[00:56:19.36] spk_0:
the bus ministry.

[00:56:20.24] spk_1:
Just gotta, you gotta get the book,

[00:56:21.23] spk_0:
you got to read the bus ministry and so it’s giving of time treasure and talent, not just resources and so all of us who are caring for our communities in ways that are um you know through love is uh we’re all philanthropists

[00:56:33.73] spk_1:
get the book, go to de colonizing wealth dot com. Edgar Villanueva, thank you so much.

[00:56:37.97] spk_0:
Thank you for having me on tony real pleasure

[00:57:40.83] spk_1:
next week converting followers to donors with Adora drake, if you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com were sponsored by turn to communications pr and content for nonprofits. Your story is their mission turn hyphen two dot C. O. And by sending blue, the only all in one digital marketing platform empowering non profits to grow tony-dot-M.A.-slash-Pursuant in Blue, our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff to show social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by scott stein, thank you for that. Affirmation scotty Be with me next week for nonprofit radio big non profit ideas for the other 95 go out and be great. Mhm Yeah