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Nonprofit Radio for July 10, 2023: 10 Easy Ways To Boost Your Fundraising On A Budget & Personalized Fundraising At Scale

 

Rosalind Zavras & Julia Toepfer: 10 Easy Ways To Boost Your Fundraising On A Budget

Relationships; storytelling; thanks; impact; consistency; and more. Rosalind Zavras and Julia Toepfer share tactics you can use right away to increase your fundraising impact without busting your fundraising budget. Rosalind is CEO of Aropa Consulting and Julia is from the National Immigrant Justice Center. (This was recorded at the 2023 Nonprofit Technology Conference, hosted by NTEN.)

 

 

 

 

Joe Frye & Peter Yagecic: Personalized Fundraising At Scale

Here’s the 11th easy way to boost your fundraising! First, adopt a better definition of personalization, beyond first-name emails. Then, understand the many types of personalization available. The advice comes from Joe Frye and Peter Yagecic, both with Town Hall Agency. (This is also from 23NTC.)

 

 

 

 

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[00:00:25.58] spk_0:
And welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite abdominal podcast. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d suffer the effects of Jerome Erasmus if you dragged me down with the idea that you missed this week’s show.

[00:01:55.47] spk_1:
10 easy ways to boost your fundraising on a budget, relationships, storytelling. Thanks impact consistency and more. Rosalind Taveras and Julia. Temper share tactics you can use right away to increase your fundraising impact without busting your fundraising budget. Rosalyn is CEO of a rope a consulting and Julia is from the National Immigrant Justice Center. This was recorded at the 2023 nonprofit technology conference hosted by N 10 and personalized fundraising at scale. Here’s the 11th. Easy way to improve your fundraising. First adopt a better definition of personalization beyond first name emails, then understand the many types of personalization available. The advice comes from Joe Frye and Peter Logistic, both with Town Hall Agency. This is also from the 23 and TC on Tony’s take two, got feedback. We’re sponsored by Donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor box dot org. Here is 10 easy ways to boost your fundraising on a budget.

[00:02:24.58] spk_0:
Welcome back to tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of 23 NTC 2023 nonprofit technology conference. We are sponsored here at the conference by Heller consulting, technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. With me now are Rosalind Taveras who is CEO of a rope, a consulting and Julia Tepfer, who is senior marketing and digital engagement strategist at the National Immigration National Immigrant Justice Center, Rosalind Julia. Welcome to non profit

[00:02:37.12] spk_2:
radio.

[00:02:39.25] spk_3:
Alright,

[00:02:54.52] spk_0:
pleasure, pleasure. Your session. Uh is 10 easy ways to boost your fundraising on a budget and it’s already, it’s already in your past. You can relax, relax. All right. Um Leslie Rosalind, why don’t you get us started with just, you know, some like 30,000 ft overview of why this is an important topic.

[00:03:04.46] spk_2:
Well, I will and one thing that we really emphasized is there technically are no easy ways to boost your fundraising. But our strategies were how to make your fundraising easier and your processes, especially for small teams. How can you leverage different tools so that you can fundraise effectively? Even if you are resource

[00:03:53.83] spk_0:
strapped, there is no easy way. There is no panacea. Okay. Okay. Um Julia, you wanna, you have, I’m just looking at the the learning objectives or learning outcomes. I think they call the list of fundraising tactics. Start right away. You wanna, we have 10. We don’t necessarily, it’s not ping pong. We’re not gonna go Julia Rosalind. Julia Rosalind. But Julia, do you want to kick us out with some, some of the

[00:04:18.70] spk_3:
strategies? Yeah. Um I mean, one of the things that we talk a lot about um in the session is relationship building and how important it is to establish a strong relationship with your donors. Um and um some of that comes from talking directly to them, um comes from thanking them often um knowing what their needs are and why they are connected to your organization, why they’re passionate about what you do. Um And so a lot of the tips and tools that we talked about really stem mostly from, from some of the that initial relationship

[00:04:45.47] spk_0:
instead of transactional treating KTM communicating when we want something. Alright, so I’m gonna make, I’m gonna make you drill down. I want to, I want to hear the 10. So start us off with number one.

[00:04:51.33] spk_3:
Um Do you remember what exactly number

[00:04:54.35] spk_0:
one, I’m not going to know

[00:05:33.15] spk_3:
the number 11 that we talked about in the session was thinking your donors and doing it in, in creative and different ways. So um making ensure that you particularly thank them after the um the transaction receipt, you know, an auto response email is not a thank you. Um So making sure that you really build that relationship through thanking them. Um And using some really creative methods um to continue that conversation with them and thank them for their, for their donation. Ross had a had a great um tip of um writing letters to them and um doing it through a method called Punk Post which send

[00:05:42.91] spk_0:
letters and you have some of these creative, I don’t want you to just say we talked about creative ways. I want to hear what the creative ways are

[00:05:59.04] spk_2:
really interesting service that has cards and then they employ artists to give creative designs and handwritten notes within the cards. So especially if you’re not an artist and you or maybe you don’t love your penmanship, you can use punk Post to send these really beautiful cards and they’ll do the stamp, they’ll do everything for you. So you just pick the card type in your message and they’ll send it and you can do big groups of these for donors as well. So you

[00:06:24.92] spk_0:
post dot com. Is that easy? Okay? Okay. Alright. If you don’t like your own hand, but people do like handwritten notes, they love them, but if they can’t read them, then they’re not very valuable. So if your handwriting is that bad, but people do love, respond to handwritten notes. They really do another creative way. Rosalind creative way of saying thank

[00:06:51.13] spk_2:
you. And this also goes back to our second strategy which is segmenting your donors. So understanding who your donors are and why they got connected to you and then creating a thanking strategy from there. So you wouldn’t thank someone the same way for coming to your house for dinner as well as giving you a birthday present, right? Those are two different interactions. So your donors should also have two different types of thank you, depending on how they come in to your organization or maybe what they’re interested in. Okay.

[00:07:34.95] spk_0:
Okay. So thank you, segmenting. Um segmenting, I guess, you know, also by what their interests are, what they’ve given to. Okay. And technology helps with these things, right? Tags, attributes we can segment in your CRM, you can segment in your email, uh app. Okay. Okay. You wanted to keep going wrestling some more, some more of the 10. We’re gonna hit all 10. So we’re not letting, uh letting you hold out on non profit radio listeners. Okay. What else? What else do we have?

[00:07:53.88] spk_2:
Another great tip is to talk to your donors and this is one of my favorites. So that’s why I’m jumping to this one. A lot of us are nervous to speak to our donors. Don’t really. No. Should we call them? Yes. Call them, text them, email them, get to know your donors because they are excited about the cause that you’re working on and they want to get to know you and they’re excited if you want to get to know them as well as we were saying earlier. Fundraising is relational. So build a relationship, the same way that you would build a relationship with a friend or colleague.

[00:08:13.12] spk_0:
What are some things you could talk to folks about if you’re picking up the phone, talking, how

[00:08:18.14] spk_2:
they got involved, how they found out about your organization, things that they’re interested in, you could tell them about the programs that you’re working on and things that are coming up. And also it’s a great way to gauge what they’re interested in and maybe they’ll say in that conversation, oh, I didn’t realize you do this. I’d love to hear more about it. And then now you know which emails to send them because they’re most interested in this one particular program. Okay. Okay.

[00:08:52.30] spk_0:
Um And even, I think even if you’re calling and even just leaving a thoughtful message, even if they don’t call back, you still made a valuable, valuable contact. I think

[00:08:56.89] spk_2:
we also talked about you could potentially use volunteers to help out with this as well. Like you don’t have to be the only one calling all of these individuals, but just make sure that whoever is calling knows the verb that you want to use, knows how to talk about your programs, the way that you want them to,

[00:09:14.31] spk_0:
that can be a good exercise to for boards. I mean, it’s an easy, I’ve made lots of thank you. I do plan giving, fundraising. Nobody’s ever turned, turned down or been upset at a thank you call sometimes you have to reassure them. Actually, a lot of times I’m only calling to say thank you,

[00:09:32.67] spk_3:
thank

[00:10:02.91] spk_0:
you. Yeah. You know, because I work with plan giving donors to, to the non profits, but sometimes they make an outright gift to and since I might be the relationship manager, I’m calling to say thank you, I think, you know, but I just gave, you know, and I might say tony-martignetti from so and so charity I just gave, you know, or something like I’m calling to say thank you for that. Yeah. And then, then they let their guard down like instantly, but sometimes you do have to reassure folks, but for both, that’s a really easy call to make a thank you

[00:10:06.73] spk_2:
call. It makes everybody feel good, especially if you have a board that doesn’t exactly know how to fundraise or maybe they’ll say we’re uncertain. Start with

[00:10:27.57] spk_0:
the first one. They’ll see how easy they are and who wouldn’t love to hear from a board member of an agency that you just gave to volunteered for. All right. Um Julia, let’s go to you. What else?

[00:11:11.45] spk_3:
Yeah. So one I really like a lot is telling personal stories. So sharing um the victories of your clients, your staff, um really creating a personal connection between your donors and the cause that you um that your organization represents or the service, the services that you provide. Um We talked about um making sure that, you know, if you’re sharing a human’s story um to make sure that they have control over the way that story is told, um to make sure they have that they have consented to the way that you’re sharing that story. But it’s a really great way to really connect donors to the actual impact that, that they are having and tell

[00:11:24.40] spk_0:
the stories in what ways.

[00:12:21.13] spk_3:
Yeah. So um we shared a few examples actually um on, you know, you could do it through written stories, right on, on emails or in letters um but also on social media and through images and videos. Um Roz has um some great examples of um organizations that might not provide direct services to people. Um um but can still share pictures on social media platforms that still really tell a story of the work that their, that their organization does. Um In this particular case, it was um food in the back of a, of a minivan um from an organization that uh does food reclamation and delivers food to organizations that then distributed and it was still really sharing the story of the work um but didn’t necessarily involve people. So we really stress that like there are lots of different ways that you can share and tell stories. They don’t have to involve um people or animals. Um that it’s possible for all organizations to, to do that effectively. Rosalind

[00:12:42.23] spk_0:
sounds like it looks like you may want to amplify that some definitely.

[00:13:18.30] spk_2:
Well, and this woman also after the session came and asked a similar question, you know, she has an advocacy organization. So a lot of what she was working on is how can I tell a story when our stories numbers and, and one of the things that I spoke with her about was I’ve seen organizations in similar spaces tell the story about why the advocacy is so important. So you can connect your organization to. Okay, we’re working on this issue and pedestrian safety. So maybe we tell stories around why pedestrian safety is so important and how people have felt, walking on roads without sidewalks and you know, doing short videos and things like that. The other point that I like to emphasize is only use platforms that you’re comfortable with and that your donors use. You don’t have to be on a specific social media platform to share these stories if that’s not where your donor base lives and if they’re all, if emails really effective, then you can do a video and send it in an email,

[00:14:08.61] spk_0:
okay, meet them where they are not where you would like them to be. Uh okay. Alright. Um Anything more on anything more on that one on one personal stories? I mean, the point is everything, everything, all the work we do affects, impacts people somehow climate change, you could say, well, how do I reduce that to a story? Uh But that’s a, that’s a great example of a of an advocacy organization that personalizing, able to personalize anything more on that one before we know,

[00:14:13.74] spk_2:
I think we can. Yeah. Well, another good one is

[00:14:18.13] spk_0:
okay, Rosalind both. I like them both. Okay. Okay, I’ve been using now, I’m using both. Alright, thank you.

[00:15:02.29] spk_2:
Thank you. Another great one is to convey impact and so and convey impact in everything that you’re doing. Not just your emails but your social media campaigns. When a donor does give, how can you connect their gift to the impact of their dollar? Right? And that’s more than just saying. Thank you for your gift. You donated $5 to the education program. It’s rather this $5 allowed kids to come in and you know, gain access to new books uh so that they can now read after school, right? Um And a huge part of that is donors are excited about the cause. It’s not about your organization, it’s about your community and the work that you’re doing so center them in what you’re talking about so that they know that they’re part of the solution. Their donation affected change in an area they’re excited about that could

[00:15:17.25] spk_0:
even go back to personalizing the story. Enabled a student like tony to buy a book, attended school, whatever. Yeah,

[00:15:26.43] spk_2:
exactly. A lot of our tips work together.

[00:15:29.36] spk_0:
Okay. Very good. Yes, they don’t stand alone.

[00:16:16.64] spk_1:
It’s time for a break. Donor box. It’s the fundraising engine of choice. For 50,000 organizations from 96 countries. They’ve got something new. Now, you can accept cashless donations anytime and anywhere with donor box live kiosk, turn your ipad or Android tablet into a kiosk to boost in person giving. And with their new additions to donor box events, you can sell tickets in 43 currencies and ask your buyers to cover fees, put these two together and you’re in person events will take off donor box helping you help others. Donor box dot org. Now back to 10 easy ways to boost your fundraising on a budget.

[00:16:23.23] spk_0:
Ross. Let’s stick with you. Give us another one.

[00:16:40.13] spk_2:
Another good one is to test your online donation experience. And so a lot of us, especially in the fundraising space, we know what an online form looks like. We’ve filled them all out, we know them really well and we don’t really have an outsider’s perspective into what it looks like to donate. So a really good and I think this one is actually pretty easy and simple. Ask somebody who isn’t in fundraising to try and make a donation and give you feedback and even give them a little rubric to say, you know, here’s some questions that we would like you to answer as you’re trying to give this donation and let us know how it looks and feels and if there are ways that we can improve the experience.

[00:17:06.84] spk_0:
Okay, easy. Yeah, and do it from the outside easy. Okay, Julia, you got something, it’s getting harder now because we’re down like number seven or so. So there are fewer and fewer left for you to choose

[00:17:31.96] spk_3:
from. Yeah. So testing your assumptions is an important one. Not assuming that, you know, what works well with, with people and with your supporters and donors, um making sure that you really use um hard data to look at what it is that, that works for you.

[00:17:39.97] spk_0:
Assumptions like what, what assumptions are people, organizations commonly making?

[00:18:08.56] spk_3:
Yeah. So I think um like the way that they interact, the way that they interact with um with your donation page, I think was something that we touched on. Um and A B testing different messages, um different ways that people respond to um to your messaging. Um but also not testing, trying to test too many things at, at one time but um doing some A B testing with, with messaging and subject lines and, and things like that.

[00:18:31.67] spk_2:
Yeah. So really to piggyback off that if you’re going to test um do A B testing on emails, change one thing per email, right? Change the subject line. Maybe you have a subject line with emoji and one without emojis and see which one gets opened more and same with your social media, right? Post on a Monday and then maybe next week post on a Tuesday and see if you’re getting different engagement. It doesn’t have to be fancy you don’t need to use all these analytics tools, just create a plan and say, okay, we’re going to test this thing now and we’re gonna test something else later.

[00:18:55.05] spk_0:
And uh is there a minimum size that you should have before your testing or minimum, let’s say number of emails for, for validity.

[00:19:05.02] spk_2:
Um There are plenty of content specialist that will probably tell you yes and give you a number. I think you could test with five people personally. You can always um understand your donors more and understand how they communicate. So I’m a big proponent of no matter your donor base, how big it is, how small it is. You can, you can test and get valuable information.

[00:19:28.15] spk_0:
Um Go ahead Julia, you were, you were taking off some, it’s getting harder now. Yeah,

[00:19:48.39] spk_3:
I think so. I think we can remember um timely calls to action is a really important one that is actually really pretty rich because there are a lot of different ways that you can use that effectively. But um a lot of it relates to urgency and making sure that you’re conveying urgency um with donations, whether that is um around a campaign deadline or an event um or a holiday or something really tying it back to urgency and making sure that people know that it’s very important that they give right now. And creating that sense really helps to, to um encourage people to donate.

[00:20:18.94] spk_2:
It really also helps with donor acquisition when you have a current event that is directly affecting your cause to then try and create uh campaign and language around that as well. Uh The classy why America gives report is really interesting. And according to their survey, um and their, their data collection, 60% of donors were likely to give when asked in, in relation to a current event.

[00:20:42.82] spk_0:
So using a news hook or something right? Related to your work? Okay. Okay. Did you all have stories or cases that you shared like examples of these in real life?

[00:22:12.31] spk_3:
Yeah, I mean, we, we showed some examples in particular of the way that we um show the or quantify and show the um the impact of that donations will have like on a donation page really equating the um the way that people’s donations, what they’ll actually fund and the impact that they’ll really have. So um we showed some examples of how um Rose mentioned this too but how um you know, for our organization, $35 provides translation services for a refugee or $100 provides a legal consultation for a family. So we showed some examples of how you can come to those numbers and conclusions and figure out how to um determine the value that donors will see of, of what their donation actually does. And, and that really is about starting with numbers and making sure that you can see what it is that um, what value as relates to your mission and services, what, what dollar value might equate to something.

[00:22:20.65] spk_0:
Exactly. Exactly.

[00:22:27.49] spk_2:
And also within your organization you’ve been able to do timely calls to act because you work in immigration and unfortunately immigration has been in the news quite a bit. Right. Do you see also that cycle of when a news cycle happens, you’re getting more engagement. Yeah.

[00:23:17.18] spk_3:
Yeah, for sure. And I think, um, the, you know, when not only using the sense of urgency, but when you ask people is also really important, yes, using things that are happening in our communities and in the news is something that we do quite a lot. Um because our organization does respond directly to some of those on some of those issues. So yeah, that’s something that’s really important. Um We also pretty effectively um can use light boxes and notification bars to really amplify messaging that we’re sending out. Um and making sure that people really see that it, you know, when there’s a particular campaign, not all the time, but in a rapid response situation, that can be a really effective strategy for not only donor acquisition but also donor retention.

[00:23:34.03] spk_0:
Okay, who’s up to naming the last one or two? I have not been counting, but we’re who’s up to naming another one or two that are remaining

[00:25:24.06] spk_2:
a consistent communication is definitely remaining. Um And again, when I was reading different surveys of donors, you can range anywhere from 53% to 75% of donors will not give again if they receive inconsistent and unclear communication. So it is this is incredibly important uh to get right. And it doesn’t have to be complicated. One of our best strategies is, you know, create a calendar for communicating with donors and it doesn’t have to be on, you know, fancy social media planning calendar. It can just be in your Google calendar, your outlook calendar and share it with everybody on your team that communicates with donors. Because this is also really important if someone in the program team communicates with all of your volunteers who are also probably a good number of number of donors and sends them a bunch of emails in a row and then you tack on and the last email is about a giving campaign, they’re going to have email fatigue, right? And so let’s make sure everyone in the organization who does talk to donors are on the same page about what our calendar is and that everybody is using key language that you want. Another really good strategy is to look at all of your platforms online and make sure that the language and the logos are all the same. You know, I can’t tell you how many organizations that I start working with. This is one of the first things I do and then maybe I’ll go to a Facebook page and it has the old logo and it has language that doesn’t correspond to their website at all. And the nonprofit says, oh, well, that was just someone in development and we lost the password and we’re not, you know, we’re not on Facebook. So we’re not going to change it. And I say you need to change it because it is a public part of your persona and because these social media platforms are all seo linked, they’re going donors are going to find it and you want to make sure you control the narrative.

[00:25:42.12] spk_0:
Okay. Excellent. Is there more any other strategies? Yeah.

[00:25:44.21] spk_2:
Well, we had a bonus tip if we’re

[00:25:46.24] spk_0:
at. So it was you got 11 for 10? Oh, cool. Alright. Give us a bonus.

[00:26:46.27] spk_2:
Yeah, so it wasn’t counted in the original 10 because it’s not as quote unquote easy to do, but it can be very effective and it’s creating a peer to peer fundraising campaign. Uh And one of the reasons it’s not necessarily easy is because it requires a tool, right? It’s not necessarily a lot of our tips and strategies you can implement without needing some sort of fancy technology. You can use the systems you already have. But peer to peer really relies on having a peer to peer fundraising tool that people can easily access, set up their own campaigns and get ready to go. It’s also the really important to arm the um to give the donors that are participating in this campaign a ton of marketing material and a ton of training on what it looks like to fundraise for your organization. Just as I was talking about consistently communicating, you want to make sure that your wonderful, well, meaning donors are using the same language that you would use when they’re going out to um talk about their organization with their friends and

[00:26:49.21] spk_0:
family, give them resources. We’re talking about brand, you know, consistency you were saying, so give them the logo and the colors,

[00:26:56.41] spk_3:
tool kits, messaging, messaging,

[00:27:00.01] spk_0:
consistent messaging.

[00:27:19.37] spk_3:
Yeah. And we’ve even done um you know, starting off really with a small core group of folks. Um we started it with our board. Um but even doing a webinar with them to make sure that they understand the process of setting up the peer to peer page and, and how they see in the system who donated to them and how they think them and how they keep track of all of that. Um So really one of the things that makes it a little bit more of a complicated tip um is that it does require quite a lot of effort, at least to get off the ground.

[00:27:39.29] spk_0:
Um As I said, you need a platform. Is there a platform that the two of you like to use? Is that one of them preferred over the others? You can shout it out. What’s the diff?

[00:28:18.25] spk_3:
Well, I think one of the things that we talked about that’s really great is um if you are just getting started to, to piggyback off of foundations or other um organizations in your community that are doing giving days, um they often will provide the infrastructure for you to use and you can test out the tool and you know, a peer to peer tool in the process that way. So you don’t necessarily have to have your own in order to participate in those ways um through a community giving day or something. So that’s, that’s a really great one.

[00:28:26.64] spk_2:
And I like to stay as platform agnostic as possible because it depends on your team and your donors as to which one makes the most sense. Do you have very tech savvy donors who are really excited to go in and make changes or do you have donors that want something that’s plug and play because they don’t really understand how to use these tools and they’re just excited to go out and fundraise for you. So, you know, there are amazing platforms out there, but I really always start with who is your team and who are your donors?

[00:28:58.84] spk_0:
Okay. I did

[00:29:28.60] spk_3:
remember, I did remember one about, about matching matching grants and um matching gifts. Um And so we talked about how, um you know, a lot of it’s not great to leave money on the table. Um We talked about employer, particularly employer matching gifts. But then also, um if you, you are, again, this is a little bit more complicated. But if you are equipped for uh kind of recruiting matching grants from donors or companies or foundations, that, that, that’s another thing that can, that can work really, really well. Um particularly in um a campaign situation where you can say, you know, all donations up to $20,000 will be matched dollar for dollar until midnight. Thanks to XYZ donor.

[00:29:58.95] spk_2:
And when we say leave money on the table according to um, double the donation, they researched this and 4 to $7 billion a year goes unclaimed in matching gifts. And that, that is money that is just left on the table by all of

[00:30:20.81] spk_0:
the company. Let your employer know that you donated their simple form. Exactly. And they’ll send the same or whatever they are match, match.

[00:30:23.06] spk_2:
And even I’ve seen reports that up to 40% of fortune 500 companies now have a volunteer match program as well. Which means if you have a volunteer base, maybe they haven’t donated. But they work for one of those bigger companies. You should also talk to those volunteers and see if they can talk to their company and if they’ll match some of the time that they’ve donated.

[00:30:43.51] spk_0:
Oh, so it’s the company providing another volunteer to piggyback on the employee that’s already volunteering for the organization. No,

[00:30:52.59] spk_2:
it’s the company writing a check equivalent to that person’s time.

[00:30:55.69] spk_0:
Oh, it’s giving cash equivalent to the

[00:30:58.24] spk_3:
volunteer time.

[00:31:10.84] spk_2:
Oh, and this has been a very effective strategy for one of my clients because they have a mentor program and all of their mentors are volunteers from large tech companies. And so they get often written checks from those employers saying, oh, I’m so happy my employee participated in your program. Here’s a check for their time.

[00:31:20.12] spk_0:
Damn. So 20 hours in a month or something, or 20 hours in a year, it was more like like somebody donated 20 hours in a year and the employer will pay the nonprofit, the value of that 20 hours. Okay. Excellent. I’ve never heard that. What is that called?

[00:31:36.85] spk_2:
Volunteer?

[00:31:42.17] spk_0:
Aptly named? Alright. Um okay. So anything else anything we probably, well, I don’t want to let you off the hook. We may have named all 11 but did we I think

[00:31:51.06] spk_2:
so confident. Well, like I said, they’re all super intertwined. So um we covered them all. I don’t know if we named

[00:32:05.19] spk_0:
one way or another. Okay. Alright. Alright, fair enough. All right. Um You, you’re one of your outcomes, tried and true fundraising tips from other nonprofit professionals do that that does come from the audience or, or, or I mean, you two are already a nonprofit. So is that redundant? I don’t know are the tips coming from you to or from the audience?

[00:32:24.46] spk_2:
And we had really good audience participation and they gave some of the tips that they use. So let’s bring them in.

[00:32:29.97] spk_0:
So share some,

[00:32:32.17] spk_2:
please. One organization mentioned that they have a threshold over $350. That’s when they start calling people. And that for them has also been incredibly effective. They just pick up the phone and they give donors a call um if they’ve reached that amount and that also helps them manage it a little bit because then they’re not necessarily calling everybody, but they know that that’s their threshold. My recommendation though is even under that 3 50. Take a sampling maybe and occasionally call them as well

[00:32:59.36] spk_0:
or like whatever you whatever you think you have the bandwidth for. If $50 is a big donation for you, then maybe that’s your threshold if you can manage it. Okay. Alright. You got another one came from the audience,

[00:33:48.57] spk_3:
another one that somebody shared was that they crowdsource stories from their participants and um collect them and share them out in monthly emails and they share a few stories in each email um in that the person’s words who submitted the story and it might include a photo, but it’s all coming pretty much directly from the participants themselves. And they mentioned that they put um a fundraising, a donate button, not even a hard ask, but just to donate button in the bottom of those males. And it generates quite a lot of donations just from this one email that shares these impact stories from, from folks who have participated in the services. Um and even with the soft ask, they get a great return on those.

[00:34:15.28] spk_2:
That also reminds me another tip. Um, and an audience member echoed this was around lapsed owners. So going back to segmenting your donors, if you can segment who has lapsed, then reaching out directly to them and talking to them and saying hi, we’ve missed you or, um, you know, here’s information about our programming. Again, targeting lapsed owner specifically has had great returns both for my clients as well as the woman that came and spoke

[00:34:30.72] spk_0:
and targeting them more digitally

[00:34:42.00] spk_2:
email, just having direct language to them that says like, thank you for your support. We miss you. Can you come back or here’s what we’ve been up to, especially if you have lab donors that have been away for five years, 10 years. You can use that as a great opportunity to say, this is everything that’s changed in the organization in that time and sometimes they just forgot, but they haven’t donated. And so reaching out to them and communicating with them in that way will help jog their memory and say, oh yeah, I love what you’re doing. Yes, I’ll donate again.

[00:35:08.71] spk_0:
And I didn’t realize that I had stopped and you found success even going back that far, going back 10 years, very successful. Interesting because that’s typically, I think folks will like do one or two, maybe three years lapse. You found success going back as far as 10 Okay.

[00:35:36.05] spk_2:
Okay. And again, it’s about targeting the communication, right? So you would target a 10 year lapse donor differently than a one year lapse donor. The one year lapse donor might have just credit, credit card expired or something changed. And that’s why they haven’t given, whereas the 10 year lapse donor is there, probably aware they’re not giving to your organization anymore. So use this as an opportunity to talk to them again about what may be their life has changed? What are their priorities again? Get to know them and say, hey, you know, we love your support. Is there something that we can do to get that back?

[00:36:02.00] spk_0:
Awesome. Any other area? The pros from tips from either one of you to professionals or that came from the audience trying to immerse listeners in the in the session experience.

[00:36:10.04] spk_3:
Okay. Those are the ones

[00:36:12.30] spk_0:
we’re not gonna okay. Put you on the spot. Um Rosalind, why don’t you leave us with inspirational thoughts around easier ways to boost your fundraising, the value of all these things we just talked about.

[00:36:36.33] spk_2:
Well and again, donors are excited about the work that you’re doing. So when we talk about tips to boost your fundraising, it’s about honestly just connecting with them and having them connect with your organization in fun, interesting and personalized ways.

[00:37:12.31] spk_0:
Rosen is a CEO A Ropa consulting and Julia Tepfer, Senior Marketing and digital Engagement strategist at National Immigrant Justice Center, Rosalind Roz Julia Thank you very much. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing. Thank you for being with nonprofit radio coverage of 23 nt see where we are sponsored by Heller consulting, technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. Thanks for being with us.

[00:37:20.87] spk_1:
It’s time for Tony’s take two.

[00:38:25.11] spk_0:
Thank you, Kate. Have you got feedback? You know, I’m always interested in your opinion of nonprofit radio. It might be an individual show or a guest or topics that resonate with you or some topic that you think was off topic, didn’t, didn’t really belong on the show. You know, it might be this week’s show, it might be next week’s next month, next year. Anytime I’m I’m interested in your opinion, I’m interested in your feedback. I welcome it. Positive, negative, good, bad. I can take it. It’ll be okay. I’ll be fine. I am genuinely interested in what you think about what you’re listening to week after week. And the best way to get feedback to me is either the contact page at tony-martignetti dot com or just email me tony at tony-martignetti dot com. Eight

[00:38:26.57] spk_1:
that is Tony’s take two. We’ve got Boo koo, but loads more time here is personalized fundraising at scale.

[00:39:06.50] spk_0:
Welcome to tony-martignetti, non profit radio coverage of 23 NTC. Our continuing coverage of the 2023 nonprofit technology conference at the Colorado Convention Center in Denver where we are sponsored by Heller consulting technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits with me. Now is Joe Frye Account, group director for nonprofit and Cause at Town Hall Agency and Peter, Vice President of Innovation at Town Hall Agency, Joe Peter. Welcome to nonprofit radio. Thanks

[00:39:14.64] spk_4:
for having us. Thanks

[00:39:15.42] spk_0:
tony and my welcome also to the, to the teams at Town Hall Agency. What Peter, what is Town Hall Agency about

[00:39:33.06] spk_5:
Town Hall agency is an agency that is focused on the non profit and higher education sectors and it’s a full service digital agency. We have been uh kind of evolved and grown out of our parent company, which is, which is Situation Group and Town Hall. We, we have really brought a lot of folks on board to grow that brand for us. Uh And Joe can speak a little bit more to that, but it is, it is an outgrowth of the work that we’ve been doing for a lot of our uh clients that care about creating passionate communities and really making sure that we’re making impact in the work that we’re doing.

[00:39:59.55] spk_0:
Your session. Topic together is personalized, fundraising at scale a how to discussion. So we’re gonna talk about the how to of personalized fundraising at scale. Joe, what what could nonprofits doing a little better? It sounds like with

[00:40:29.38] spk_4:
personalization. Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. I mean, you know, I think when we look at the data already, about 60% of non profits are doing some sort of personalization, right? It’s the at scale that we’re really talking about. Um And it really, to me and to Peter, we were talking about this, it doesn’t necessarily start with the tech stack. It’s more of a mindset. Um And how do we break down the silos within nonprofits? Um So that we’re not personalizing one channel at a time, but we’re personalizing the whole ecosystem.

[00:40:46.94] spk_0:
And so you’re encouraging us to go beyond the hello, first name, email, personal and, and assuming that we were personalizing, we use people’s first names and

[00:41:12.30] spk_5:
emails. It’s not a bad place to start, but it’s really growing from that and kind of thinking about the subtle ways that you can do personalization across multiple different channels. So not just saying okay, one and done, we do it here, we’ve ticked that box. But how can we always be thinking about increasing that level of personal is a because we see that constituents respond to that. They actually, they have a tendency to give more when personalization is done, right?

[00:41:20.13] spk_0:
So Peter, how, how far can we go? And what’s, what’s a better definition of personalization?

[00:42:03.02] spk_5:
Well, I, I think there’s a lot, there’s a lot that’s coming out right now in, in thinking how this is going to impact every single part of our lives. I think we’re being personalized to, in ways that we do don’t even realize every single day. And, and one of the things that we talked about in our panel was how can we make sure that we’re always doing a feedback loop of the data that we have, we have first party data about the people were communicating to. And then that the second piece is really making sure that all of that data is consistent, cleaned up, de duplicated, not the most fun part of the job, but that really allows you to then take action what you know, and then always be listening when you’re continuing that conversation with your constituents, they’re giving you feedback on how they open their emails when they do that and the kinds of things, the things that they’re reading on your website. So always make sure there’s a feedback loop to not just rest on your laurels about what you think, you know, but how are you continuing to learn about those people as you evolve in that relationship with them?

[00:42:28.54] spk_0:
You mentioned that we’re always being personalized to, I mean, I’m thinking of any of the, any of the online retailers, you know, customers who looked at what you looked at, looked at these other things, people who bought what you bought these other things, people who bought what you bought, bought these other things with those. I mean, these things paired together, right? We know this is your preferred address, you know. So in those types of ways, is that what you mean? Yeah,

[00:42:48.46] spk_5:
the example that we used

[00:42:49.50] spk_0:
in this is one example, retail and online

[00:42:57.29] spk_5:
retail. Yeah, the example we used in our presentation was about kind of online streaming platforms. They’re all vying for our $8 a month right now. And the ones that are making sure that they know what we like and giving us those recommendations from their content library. Those are the ones that are going to have that competitive edge. So I think we see it a lot in the for profit world that, that personalization is kind of survival of the fittest. But then, you know, the challenge is how do we adapt that for nonprofits when we’re not putting those up against each other in a competitive way? But we’re hoping that we can just make sure that we have the best relationship with our constituents.

[00:43:26.43] spk_0:
I just got an email yesterday that HBO Max is becoming Max. That that’s an interesting branding. I would have thought HBO Max would be better uh keeping their name, front center, but

[00:43:39.27] spk_5:
there’s a lot of money to make that

[00:43:54.59] spk_0:
decision. Okay. Um So look for that big change. Uh So, so do we need some infrastructure, we need to be able to capture and preserve and then coalesce the data that you’re, you’re talking about? Either one of you need infrastructure back in before we can personalize that scale. I

[00:44:26.70] spk_4:
mean, I think one of the things that Peter and I spent a lot of time thinking about is what you do actually need, right? You need data, you need a tech stack, you need a website, you need an email platform, you need something like that. But really it’s organization, right? It’s, it’s a little bit of time. And in our panel, I talked about an example of the client a couple years ago where we spent two hours a month, tagging their data for four months and we had enough data to then personalize everything to them two hours in a month. Yeah, it wasn’t much time at all. Right. And we didn’t ask them for new technology we used what they were using. Uh And so I think there are ways to do it. It’s why we like to say that yes, it can be a tech stack, but really it’s a mindset.

[00:44:45.53] spk_5:
And I think unless you’ve built your own technology from the ground up, chances are there are features within the tech that you use today, you don’t know how to use or that you’re just not using to the extent because those platforms are always improving

[00:44:57.88] spk_0:
tags, attributes, segments, segments. What else are these things commonly called across different platforms? Anything else that

[00:45:31.73] spk_5:
mark that there’s a lot that falls on like marketing automation. Um You know, I think there are more and more platforms that can identify the best time to send, not just for your entire audience but based on you, you know, when do you tend to engage with those emails and then when I hit send for that, you know, maybe it’ll hold that email until it knows when tony is going to open it and it will deliver to you at the right time. So it’s just scale being able to exist. It does exist,

[00:45:34.73] spk_0:
just describe something that you’re dreaming of

[00:45:37.16] spk_5:
that exists. Otherwise I’m going to go off and trademarks but know that exist today. Absolutely.

[00:45:41.67] spk_4:
Existing tools kind of upstream and downstream, right? Like not just the really expensive tools but also the more achievable approachable tools. Okay.

[00:46:13.92] spk_0:
So folks may already have this these resources, you just have to exploit them. That’s right, because I’m thinking of, I use male chimp for my company, emails and uh blasts for the podcast. There are, there’s, there’s like send time optimization. Um I don’t know if it’s including optimizing for me, but it’s including optimizing for the folks I’m sending to and I’m not even thinking about segments, I could set the audience and then segment and then send time optimization for the different segments. I’m just doing it in one

[00:46:37.85] spk_4:
group. Alright. And right, that’s, that’s part of when we define personalization. That’s part of what we’re talking about, right? Like a lot of people think personalization, 1 to 1, ultimately, we’ll get there. But like let’s start in a smaller phase of personalization, one to a persona, one to a group of people. Let’s build our confidence there. And I think a lot of it is kind of, it sounds so big and intimidating and you know, we have all this data and we’re gonna get lost in that data. But when we break it down and we really try to crawl, walk, run a personalized approach. We can do it in ways that everybody gets on board. We can start to break down some of those silos and barriers inside of organizations, bring everybody to the table know clearly.

[00:47:00.10] spk_0:
And then it just become awareness because we’re reassuring folks that a lot what they need is already in place. It’s just exploiting it.

[00:47:22.34] spk_5:
And I think the subtlety of how you approach it and how you start that, that crawl phase. I think we’ve all gotten that email that was personalized to us, but maybe it had the wrong name or it had the first name tag instead of our actual name. And you may I equate that to, uh, if a romantic partner calls you by the wrong name, you might forgive that, but you’re never going to forget that moment. So, so how can we be thinking about personal, personalizing things in a subtle way where it’s just enhancing what we know about you? But we’re kind of mitigating that risk of maybe, you know, as all technology does from time to time, you know, makes a mistake. But, but that’s really where that second stage we were talking about before of making sure that your data is constantly sanitized up to date, clean and consistent. Are there

[00:47:47.25] spk_0:
other examples that we can, we can give folks a different types of personalization. Yeah.

[00:48:56.61] spk_4:
So I like, I think there are a couple of things we can do personalization wise. One is we can personalize to the content. So um right, hubspot came out a couple years ago now with the stat that they have dynamic CTS built into their platform. Uh And so essentially the CT A changes based on your data uh and they came out and said it converts 202% better than a static one. That’s a huge number. But what are we actually personalizing that too? Is it the story that it appears underneath? Right? So our ask is based on uh whatever the blog post topic is and like what was able to help that person and that impact story or we personally personalizing it to the fact that tony donated $100 last month. Now we want them to donate 100 and 20 because we want them to donate 20% more. So, what are we really personalizing too is a good, a good place to start. Um You know, one of the things that I’ve spent a lot of time with is working with organizations have gift catalogs and how to activate a gift catalog across a blog to then have a CT A that isn’t even dynamic. It’s static, but it’s written in the same way that the ask and the gift catalog is so that way everything ties together. So regardless of which channel somebody’s engaging with you with or what the ask is. Everybody’s on the same page about what that actual ask is going to be. And it feels more personal to the donor and the potential donor.

[00:49:09.98] spk_0:
Peter. Other examples. Yeah.

[00:49:32.43] spk_5:
Well, I think one of the things that Joe and I were having some conversations around, uh and I know he’s done some, some campaigns with this personalized video is something that’s becoming more and more attainable without, you know, breaking the bank. Really, there are a lot of services that you can work with to have different videos stitched together. They could include things like your donation history or, or just an appeal to you or, or really just includes segments, you know, as part of that B roll that of things that we know that are important to you. So when you’re thinking about a video campaign or an end of your appeal, you can actually start to use more and more to uh tools that, that every piece of that campaign have some level of personalization going

[00:49:50.42] spk_0:
on. Are there any video platforms that you can, you can shout out recommend as a potential resource

[00:49:56.18] spk_4:
we like item, you spell it. Idomoo

[00:50:01.90] spk_0:
idomoo

[00:50:05.18] spk_4:
dot com dot com. They do a great job really connecting in um to a database or uploaded Excel docs. Um

[00:50:14.18] spk_0:
So the video, so Peter, you’re saying like the B roll can change based on the data that’s in your CRM.

[00:50:30.45] spk_4:
Yeah, B roll the music, the ask everything, right? So everything is a data point. Um And it doesn’t really change your production process that much. They, their system has an after effects plug in that. A lot of producers and editors are already using after effects to produce videos. Um And so you define what the personalization is, what the element is and then you create all the different assets to that. Um But to your

[00:50:45.40] spk_0:
point, both of you, you could start with, maybe, maybe start with first name and maybe giving history or something like that or start simple. Don’t, don’t, you know, you’re not, you don’t have to be Martin Scorsese to produce your first one. But explore

[00:51:32.04] spk_4:
and I think like also, right, if you, if you even wanted to explore it at a higher level, um when somebody makes a donation, right, you, you know what they clicked on before they donate it typically, right? You’re gonna know if they came from an email article from a blog post from something. And so if you take that and you say, you know what, I’m gonna follow up with a personal thank you from somebody that benefited from a donation like this or from our president and CEO or from somebody on our team. Uh And I’m only gonna show them stories and content around the topic that they actually donated to. Um It’s a nice way to personalize in a very subtle way. So it’s not actually saying, thanks Tony for your donation of X, but it’s saying thank you for your support with a personal uh personalized aspect and then also showing them other stories, other impact that you have in that that segment

[00:51:48.01] spk_0:
related to what they gave to. Yeah, he’s a great example. Any other what other examples that we

[00:52:37.21] spk_5:
got on the media buying side? There’s a lot of conversations we’re having around dynamic creative. So this idea of dynamic creative that you when you’re building out your, let’s say it’s your display ad, you have a few different versions that you upload into a system. And then that system can based on targeting as media has always done. But it can also, you know, know where you are geographically and it can say, uh you know, here’s, here’s an opportunity for you in your area and it will show you something different because you’ve set up the rules to do that. It takes, it does take a change of workflow, the tools are getting cheaper, but it does require your team to maybe work in a way that they haven’t done in the past. And the non waterfall way of saying, okay, we’re going to put this ask out to the designer to get back the assets and then we’re not going to talk them again. Well, we may need to go back to that designer and say, you know what we need another variation that can achieve this thing that we’re trying to target. So can we get a few more from you? And it’s just really about making sure that, that the team is, is having that communication. It’s, and there’s a muscle within the organization to be able to adapt to that.

[00:52:58.92] spk_0:
And you were talking about media buying. What are some examples of your, your think? Um

[00:53:00.28] spk_5:
Well, just like the ads that we see,

[00:53:01.81] spk_0:
search, search, search,

[00:53:04.06] spk_5:
search ads

[00:53:28.70] spk_4:
and search ads. It’s, it’s built into Google Google ads from from the start, right? They have the dynamic ads and they optimize for you using AI but you can also optimize by location and, and some platforms allow you to kind of put together other assets. Um I mean, I also think about, you know, as just another example, thinking about communication channel preference and frequency. Um for some reason, I don’t know why my mom will not text me but she Facebook messages me. I can’t get her to text me, but her preferred channel is Facebook messenger. Um And so, you know, with donors, they all have a preferred channel um and a communication frequency that they want to hear from you. And it’s okay to ask for that. Uh

[00:53:47.61] spk_0:
Simple surveys. Yeah. How do you, how do you like us to be in touch with you?

[00:53:52.43] spk_5:
Yeah. And you mentioned Male Chimp a little while ago, tony is something that you use. The survey tools are built into that platform as well. So you can, you can deploy an email that links, you write to a survey on the same platform and then that survey will automatically update those tags on that constituent that you already have. So it’s, it’s, it’s both you can, the tools have never been better to integrate those different tools. But some of those tools are actually adding within themselves to give you even more.

[00:54:19.99] spk_0:
Any other examples you want to share? Did you do your session already or it’s coming up? Any other examples that came from maybe questions or that you shared? No, holding, holding out on non profit radio.

[00:55:10.27] spk_4:
No, we um you know, we talked a little bit about a little bit about chat, lots, a little bit about automation or across social platforms, right? Um I’ve used in the past multiple platforms, but I really like many chat as an example where you can actually set up triggers. So somebody that likes a post or somebody that comments on one of your post gets a message sent to them through whatsapp or any of the Facebook ecosystem messenger wise. Um And it’s just a nice way to kind of build that communication back and forth in that network uh in a not really creepy way, right? Like everybody wants to be engaged with or if they don’t, they tell you, they don’t want to. But it’s often a nice way to kind of automate some of that when we’re thinking about how we can do it. It’s,

[00:55:18.26] spk_0:
it’s interesting. Alright. So somebody liked or commented on a post. Yeah, I don’t know. Just a like and then they get something

[00:55:21.21] spk_4:
they could, I mean, you can set up whatever rules you want. Right. Maybe it’s three likes, four likes.

[00:55:26.33] spk_0:
Yeah, maybe a couple, a couple, a

[00:55:42.20] spk_4:
couple of engagements. And I think that’s where like, you know, I think a common theme, especially at this conference but that we often see is always be testing and it’s what really is that, you know, is it after five likes, somebody is likely to want to engage with you more and they’re looking for feedback from you. Um or is it after 10, like what really does that donor journey look like? And I know everybody is a little bit different. But, and

[00:56:25.31] spk_5:
I think Joe, you, you alluded to this in our panel, but when you’re engaging, when constituents are supporting a nonprofit, they see that relationship is very personal. If they’re going to give you their money, it’s usually because it’s something that they believe in, they support your cause. So, so we find a lot of times people are looking, you said it might seem a little creepy, but we, we find that people that are willing to give often want to engage in a dialogue. So it’s just about making sure that we’re engaging with them in the right way. They don’t just hear from us, you know, once a year when we need money, we’re making sure to, to put information in front of them that we, that we know is with them for them based on what they’ve said to us

[00:56:28.08] spk_0:
before. It was just that one example of the single, single lake, single thumbs up. And then I get a message on what’s

[00:56:47.03] spk_5:
happened. Well, yeah, and you know, we touched very briefly, uh you know, on A I what AI is going to be doing to the world of personalization. Uh I was at a talk recently from Amy Webb from the Future Today Institute and she said we used to search the internet and we’re getting to a point where the internet is now searching us. So just everybody buckle buckle your seatbelts in terms of what’s going to be happening in our worlds around uh the kinds of messaging that we’re hearing from all the new AI that’s coming online.

[00:57:03.11] spk_0:
What does she mean by that? The internet searching us? Well,

[00:57:16.74] spk_5:
that all the signals that we’re putting out into the world about our preferences, what we like that, that, you know, in the best case scenario, you have a dedicated team that’s looking at those making sense of them and, and figuring out a strategy that works to communicate. But when you just, you know, we’re getting to a point where a lot of tools are being unleashed that haven’t been tested before. So, you know, what was the micro response time from how someone moved their mouse from the bottom of the screen to the top. Does that have an indication of maybe a health issue that they’re dealing with? And you just, it doesn’t take long to go into some, some really black holes around this conversation.

[00:57:41.43] spk_0:
Trillions and trillions and quadrillions. We’re all,

[00:57:44.88] spk_5:
we’re all putting out data. Yeah.

[00:58:12.73] spk_4:
And I think that’s the thing, right? Like data, the amount of data can be scary, right? Like I have to analyze all this data um from a personal standpoint where Peter and I I kind of start is you don’t have to analyze everything. Let’s make a hypothesis, right? Like do people care more about where you do your work? Do they care more about the aspect of what you’re doing? Like what do they really care most about? And let’s try to just collect data around that and organize that data first and see if that’s actually what they care about and then move on from there. Yeah.

[00:58:14.74] spk_5:
And don’t be afraid to act. I think it’s possible in an overwhelming sea of information to become paralyzed. But, but you know that at the end of the day, the goal is to try something and see what impact that has. See if it moves the needle and make sure you’re paying attention to those performance indicators to make sure what you want to do is actually happening.

[00:58:32.04] spk_0:
So staying short of the micro seconds that it takes to move the mouse, how can we collect on our own? Some of this, some of this, some of the data that we can be then used for uh personalization at scale.

[01:01:07.08] spk_4:
Yeah. Um Well, to go back a little bit about the data piece, right? Like let’s let’s take a step back and think about why personalization really matters and like why it started in in the more commercial world first. Uh there’s a data point out there that says every second it takes me to, to think about where I’m at on a website and to act, take the next step, there’s a 10% drop off for every second. So 10% plus 10% plus 10% right? And so it’s easy to see how somebody can go from clicking on an ad, a search at Google Grants, add something like that to a website that takes a couple of seconds to load to where you went from, somebody who was going to give to you. So now there’s a 50% chance, right? Because you’re 567 seconds in by that time. Um And so personalization really started as a way to remove friction, uh which is what people often are looking for. And we know that people are really interacting with organizations across channels across platforms. Maybe it starts with uh friends um post on IG or linkedin sharing a success story and you click on that and you’re interested and you sign up for a newsletter and then you get a newsletter and you kind of read another blog post and you kind of build your relationship over multiple channels. Um But when we think about the data that you can collect, right? It’s what if you’re, you’re collecting like the last step. Um Google Analytics has a previous step metric. So everybody that goes to your donation page that converts, what was the previous step that they were on? What was the content? Um Let’s analyze that content. Let’s see what, what looks good about it? Is it 1000 word blog post? Is it a video that was embedded? Is it the ask itself was $50? And we know you actually only gave 25. Why did you only give 25? We can start to look at some of that data. Um And with an email, right, we can see what you’re clicking on open rates, uh platforms like mail chimp and hubspot and in constant contact, they all do that on an individual email record. Uh So you can actually start to see and when we do these uh and we start tagging me. So let’s start with email, right? And let’s figure out if we’re tagging around topics. What tags are people clicking on? Like are people only clicking on an article about X or are they only clicking on articles about why? And let’s start to segment those and build out more detailed personas just from an email engagement because they’ve given you their information, they’ve said they want to hear from you. They’re going to engage with you likely. Um, and it’s just an easy way for us to start there and then expand it out to multiple

[01:01:11.11] spk_0:
channels. Everything you just named is eminently doable if you’re using the most basic email, email service. Yeah, Peter

[01:02:33.78] spk_5:
to go back to, I think the idea of being a good steward of that data um treating it responsibly. Not only because legally you have to and more and more laws are coming out to say, you know, this is, this is how governments are protecting all of our data every single day. But also listening, listening to your constituents letting them know, we alluded to this earlier, letting them know why we want that information and how we intend to use it. We really just want to deepen our relationship with you. We want to make sure we’re landing your in your in box at the right time when we have something to say and when we think this is going to be important to our relationship and we’re listening to you, if you want to come to us and say, you know what? I need a break, I need to, you know, I want to change our relationship and being responsive to that. It’s not so that’s not just the technology and you know, all of the check boxes we’re all familiar with when you hit the unsubscribe button on an email and it takes you to that form and it’s like, why are you leaving? That’s kind of very cold. You have to do that. But also because privacy laws require outreach and you have to be listening to that you have to have in most states, a phone number and an email address where people can reach out to you and say, tell me what you know about me and in our organization, we listen and, and we look at every single one of those and we treat them with respect and we treat them as we would want to be treated if we were reaching out to somebody else who had our data.

[01:02:40.14] spk_4:
And again, that’s, that’s process, right? That’s not, that’s not necessarily technology, it’s, it’s a process internally and that’s part of the reason we say personalization is a mindset.

[01:03:04.77] spk_0:
Yeah. Um Peter, can we go further? So Joe identified um you know, like I was saying, data, that’s eminently collectible. You, you can start tomorrow, just turn on some analytics or, or just go back and look at data that’s already been collected. What will be the next step in terms of data that we could collect or methods that we could use to collect data for more personalization?

[01:03:50.19] spk_5:
Well, I think the way we think about it is may be reversed a little bit. We want to start with what, what is the outcome that we’re looking for? And how do we get there? Because I think it can be really tempting to just say, let’s plug another data source into the machine and see what happens. And I think that’s what you’re seeing a lot with a lot of the large language models that are pervading and coming out in the AI world right now. It’s, let’s just hook up everything that everybody said on reddit and see what happens. And I think as an organization, we don’t want to be, we don’t want to collect something that we don’t need to have to make the relationship better. It’s very tempting um to say like, oh, look, we can get 50 more data points. But if you don’t have a plan for that, then, then you’re just kind of bloating your systems and you’re, you’re risking having more than you need. Um So I think it’s, it’s, how do we, what is the end goal that we want? How do we want that constituent to feel at the end of this relationship? And then what do we need to get there? And, and let’s not over indulge.

[01:04:20.35] spk_0:
Yeah. Very good point. All right. Um What else? Um What else from your session that we haven’t talked about yet? We still have some time if, if there’s more we can talk about.

[01:04:27.75] spk_5:
Well, I think we, we were really encouraged by the, some of the conversations we had after the session. Questions.

[01:04:33.89] spk_0:
Yeah. What, what questions came or what Yeah, I think, well, he can come

[01:04:40.51] spk_5:
anytime you want the vice president. I’m just here to make Joe look good. That’s my job today. I don’t know.

[01:05:09.64] spk_0:
I see Deray vice president and group director, so Peter is the vice president. All right. Um, no, I’m not trying to create a tension within, within town. Yes. Right. Right. Um, what else came from? Yeah. Get Joe Rogan’s numbers. Right. I start going to fisticuffs. Um What else came from this audience feedback, whether questions or comments after privately, what stuck with

[01:06:25.03] spk_5:
you? I think one of the things that stuck with me was going back to what Joe was saying. It’s, it’s not just about the technology and making sure the gears are spinning, but oftentimes in organizations, it’s about the human work of getting teams that are all focusing on their own individual piece of it who are very proud of the work that they do to come together and have a conversation and understand what the bigger goal is. So there were, we all have egos. We, we all want to be told we’re doing a good job and if my part of the machine is working, I’m going to call it a day. Don’t bring me into a meeting to tell me how I have to change something because now some and so what I’m doing is working, but to really achieve something like personalization at scale, it does require getting people into a room together and almost having kind of like a professional therapy session and saying this is where we’re trying to go with our, imagine if we had a system that looked like this. Now, we’re not saying anybody in the room is preventing us from doing that, but we know that we’re only going to get there together by cooperating and finding a new way to break down those silos that exist today and, and how we do that needs to be respectful of everybody who wants to show up and it’s gonna be key to making that happen. Okay. Very good,

[01:06:26.01] spk_0:
very good perspective. Anything else that for anything struck you from the questions, anything else, audience related questions, comments

[01:07:58.00] spk_4:
that yeah, I mean, I think um I think there were really two things, one kind of piggybacking a little bit on that. We spent some time talking about making sure that when you’re collecting KPI S to see if personalization is a success, right? When you’re starting small, like what are you actually looking at? Um if you personalize the subject line of an email, the primary KPI shouldn’t be a donation, it should be an email open, right? And so when we start to have these leading indicators um that are kind of micro metrics that we’re looking at, we can start to get more people on board because we’re then sharing the same language with them, right? Uh We spend a lot of time talking about uh just how different people perceive different words, uh awareness, for instance, right? Like when we run an awareness campaign as an agency, we’re thinking it’s brand lift, right? The action is, does somebody remember your organization name and what you do? Um But oftentimes when organizations come to us and they say we want an awareness campaign, they actually mean they want somebody who doesn’t know them to take an action. Uh and it’s a, it’s a small difference but it does change one, the metrics that we’re tracking and to the type of, of media by that we do. Um And kind of how we message that. Uh And so I think it’s important, like all teams have slightly different language are slightly different connotation of a certain word. And so getting everybody, like Peter said in a therapy session at the beginning to kind of define everything that we’re gonna talk about. Everything that we’re gonna do is a really important key step. Um And it starts with a pis

[01:08:21.76] spk_5:
and, and just because you think something may seem obvious, don’t assume that everybody in that larger group when they get together is necessarily going to click on everything. And an example I often use is in the world of technology, a developer means one thing, someone who codes software in the world of nonprofits development is raising money. So just that assumption, if you’re going off on a tangent about something, and there are people in the room who maybe haven’t worked together before. Don’t assume that everybody is using the exact same dictionary

[01:08:27.75] spk_0:
work in development, right?

[01:08:29.90] spk_5:
Good website. No, no, no, not that kind.

[01:08:45.51] spk_0:
All right. Leave it there. Does that sound good? Alright, they are Joe Frye account, group account, group director for nonprofit and Cause Town Hall Agency and Peter president of Innovation at Town Hall Agency. Just to foment a little more dissension back at the

[01:08:50.47] spk_5:
agency. Thank you very much for

[01:08:53.45] spk_0:
sharing. Thanks. Thanks Peter. Thank you very much. And thank you for being with tony-martignetti non profit radio coverage of the 2023 nonprofit technology conference where we are sponsored by Heller consulting, technology strategy and implementation for nonprofits. Thanks for being with me.

[01:09:21.77] spk_1:
Next week, we wrap up our 23 NTC coverage with communications and development teams working better together. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I

[01:09:24.73] spk_0:
beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com.

[01:09:43.62] spk_1:
We’re sponsored by Donor Box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster, helping you help others donor box dot org. Our creative producer is Claire Meyerhoff. I’m your announcer, Kate martignetti. The show social media is by Susan Chavez, Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein.

Nonprofit Radio for June 19, 2023: Feasibility Studies: What, Why & How

 

Brian AbernathyFeasibility Studies: What, Why & How

If a capital, endowment or other campaign may be in your nonprofit’s future, you’ll want to consider a feasibility study beforehand. Brian Abernathy, from Convergent Nonprofit Solutions, explains what they’re all about.

 

 

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[00:00:53.31] spk_0:
Welcome to tony-martignetti non profit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95%. I’m your aptly named host of your favorite he Abdominal podcast. I’m still traveling without my studio mic. So my sound won’t be up to par. It’ll be back to normal next week. And I’m introducing my niece Carmella as our sponsor announcer this week. Oh, I’m glad you’re with me. I’d be thrown into trypanosomiasis. If you infected me with the idea that you missed this week’s show feasibility studies, what, why and how if a capital endowment or other campaign, maybe in your nonprofits future, you’ll want to consider a feasibility study beforehand. Brian Abernathy from Convergent non profit Solutions explains what they’re all about on Tony’s take too classy digs non profit radio.

[00:01:14.17] spk_1:
We’re sponsored by Donor box with intuitive fundraising software from donor box. Your donors give four times faster helping you help others. Donor box dot org.

[00:01:57.82] spk_0:
Here is feasibility studies. What? Why and how? It’s a pleasure to welcome Brian Abernathy to nonprofit radio. He is General Manager at Convergent non profit Solutions where he has supervised and managed capital campaigns that have raised more than 100 and $25 million. The company is at convergent non profit dot com and Brian is on linkedin. Brian Abernathy. Welcome to nonprofit radio.

[00:02:00.54] spk_2:
Thanks tony. Great to have the opportunity to join you today.

[00:02:13.07] spk_0:
I’m glad you can. Thank you. Let’s talk about feasibility studies. Let’s before we get into the how and the why, which actually will do the why and the how, but before we even do the why and the how, let’s talk about the what, what, what are we talking about? Feasibility studies?

[00:02:39.09] spk_2:
Yeah. So a feasibility study, tony, you could boil it down very simply to a strategic due diligence. Before a major funding initiative in capital campaign. That’s the context of feasibility study. The convergent manages and works with our clients on it’s not a will this new building attract the right market of folks? That’s a different type of study, researching utility. What we’re talking about here is, can this program of work raise the necessary amount of money? And are we confident that we’ve got the right dynamics to go out and execute a successful capital campaign to secure that

[00:03:09.00] spk_0:
funding? Do we need to know what our goal is going into the feasibility study or have a working goal or I mean, surely the study is going to refine that? But do we need to have a ballpark of what we’re, what we’re looking for?

[00:04:22.18] spk_2:
Yeah, within reason, we always say it’s good to think big in a feasibility study. When we go into this process, the the proposed program of work that we’re gonna take out and use in confidential interviews. We refer to that as a draft prospectus. So it is a working document uh primarily because we want everyone we meet with to know that their feedback can still shape that plan. But it also gives us the opportunity to test different aspects of the goal amount and the utility of that funding. So we know we might need to do a building campaign for instance. But do we want to also test the prospect of some endowment to underwrite the long term maintenance of that building? Now, that’s obviously gonna bring the funding goal up. We can test all of those things in the study. We will come back and recommend a specific goal range for a camp pain, but it’s always easier to bring that number in a little bit after a study than to realize, oh, we should have, we should have tested the endowment for the building, but we didn’t think about it in advance. So we want to think with a, what could we possibly need to execute this plan? Uh and, and reference that number as our proposed goal during the feasibility

[00:04:51.34] spk_0:
process? Okay. So, so a part of it is getting feedback on the proposed

[00:05:12.77] spk_2:
goal. That’s right. That’s right. Did people get sticker shock? If, if most of the folks that we talked to see a number in their eyes get really wide and they start to sweat in the interview that tells us it may be a little bit ambitious and sometimes they’re really easy ways to resolve that. Maybe there’s a piece of the program like an Indie that we can just quietly approach in the appropriate individual conversations. But sometimes it is a recommendation of you might want to look at phasing how you go about this so that you can get the necessary funding and just look at a longer horizon of time and potentially a couple of campaigns or more to bring that funding.

[00:05:37.96] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. All valuable info. All right. Um And, and how many folks are we, are we talking to typically? How does that work?

[00:06:07.38] spk_2:
So, excuse me, on average, we’re going to interview between 55 65 participants in a feasibility study process. We typically are going to do three weeks of in person interviews. That number obviously varies a little bit depending on the specific client, the geographic scope. If you’ve got a statewide campaign, it’s hard to get to all the right folks, maybe in a three week period. But we want to talk to the highest capacity, most influential stakeholders for whatever the nonprofit is that we’re working with, uh and get their bearings on where this proposed program of work and potential capital campaign might be headed.

[00:06:31.57] spk_0:
Does it have to be a capital campaign? Can it, can it be a programmatic campaign that we’re doing a feasibility study for or strictly an endowment campaign.

[00:07:22.80] spk_2:
Yeah, that’s a great question. And a lot of folks hear the words capital campaign and think, oh, we don’t need a new building so we don’t need a capital campaign. When we talk about a capital campaign, we speak more about the funding strategy and infrastructure. So it’s a focused initiative to fund a multi year program of work. It may be 100% programmatic. It may be 100% building capital. We’ve got a couple in process right now that are 100% endowment focused. We worked with the boys and girls club in Kentucky last year. That was all of the above. It was retrofitting a building that have been provided to them, funding the operation and utility of that building and its staff for a five year period of time and also putting into place an endowment to fund the maintenance and upkeep of that building. So a little bit of both, but when we say capital campaign, we certainly are not exclusively talking building capital.

[00:07:45.75] spk_0:
Okay, cool. Alright. So let’s move to the y what, what, what’s the value of doing a feasibility study? What are you gonna get out of it?

[00:09:26.25] spk_2:
Yeah. So the old adage of, of counting the cost before you start to build a tower plays in perfectly here, we’re going to approach the study and there’s a few key factors that we’re looking to validate. We need to know that there is a sense of urgency for whatever the need is that this program will work is going to address. We need to know that it’s being conveyed in a compelling way that those who hear about the need and then hear about the solution to that need are gonna be compelled to step in and be involved. We want to know that the right leadership is ready to step up for that campaign and this comes in two factors, tony, um One is just the right influence. Fundraising is a game of relationship strategy goes a long way. But if you don’t know anyone in a community and have all the best strategy, you’re probably not going to get the right doors open. So we want to vet out who would the best possible leaders be from a volunteer influence standpoint in the campaign. And the second piece of leadership is funding leadership, are we able to identify viable prospects ready to step in and play significant roles in terms of their investment in whatever this campaign will be implementing, knowing that we’re able to set the right perspective for the top of that uh donor pyramid or what we call an investment range tape. We’re specifically looking for a way to identify the top level potential supporters for a campaign knowing that that’s gonna set the peak where everybody’s gonna look too. So uh let

[00:09:46.06] spk_0:
me just flush out some of these So, so you can identify uh top potential campaign leadership and also top potential donors through a feasibility study.

[00:10:55.94] spk_2:
That’s right. So every single interview that we’re in, we’re gonna ask a number of questions focused on these two factors. And we’re gonna come out with a recommended list of key campaign cabinet and volunteer leaders for each campaign that we conduct a fees ability study. On, in most cases, we’re actually gonna have a drafted organization chart of different prospect divisions and leaders that we believe are gonna have influence with those different pools of individuals, organizations, foundations, whoever it may be, uh what that tells us is, we’re gonna have somebody with the right set of keys to open the doors that we need to get to and then getting a little bit further down the road into a campaign. We’re able to make the strategic highest and best use of each volunteer’s time because we know volunteers and fundraising efforts generally have day jobs and a lot of other things drawing on their time. So that’s critical intel, it’s for any nonprofit going into a funding initiative, especially a major funding initiative like a capital campaign because you just don’t want to churn and wear out your volunteers on a campaign that runs, you know, 18 months, two years, three years, folks just really start to get exhausted. So we, we map all of that out to inform a leadership strategy for the campaign.

[00:11:37.63] spk_0:
Okay. Uh So So, so far, we’ve talked about a need and a compelling purpose that’s gonna move people. Um you know, the, the value you get out of this, the leadership, the volunteer leadership for the campaign structure, the donor leadership. What else, what, why, why else do these do a study?

[00:12:14.42] spk_2:
Yeah. So in that donor leadership reference point, we do reverse analytics on every campaign that we complete. So when we look at non profit sectors or whatever the case may be, we’ve got a general idea of, we need to find a top pledge of X percent of the overall campaign goal. And our top five need to be the next percentage in the top 10 and so on and so forth. So we’re strategically modeling out a highly, highly reliable perspective on this is the funding mix that needs to be in place so that a campaign can be successful. So

[00:12:42.66] spk_0:
in these interviews, you’re, are you coming right out and asking folks, what, what, what, what do you see your participation as in this campaign that, that we’re talking about or do you, are you proposing, you’re proposing dollar amounts for each interviewee or we’ve got a, are you getting at this, this, this potential campaign contribution? Yeah,

[00:14:16.75] spk_2:
we’ll take the test goal and break it down into a funding chart just to show a visual of, we use around numbers. If we’ve got a $10 million campaign goal, we need a 15% lead pledge that would be a million and a half dollars. And so we do a couple of things. We ask every interviewee, who do you think could be up here potentially at the top ranges of this, of this pyramid? So who might be that million and a half dollar lead or a couple of folks at half a million below that? And, and in these candid confidential conversations, folks will say, oh, so and so would be great or this foundation or that family, you should try to talk to them. Uh The other thing that we do after that is we ask each interviewee if the right leaders were engaged in this campaign and if you had the right confidence in the case for investment, but where do you think from a low to high range your organization or family or whoever it is might land in terms of a potential investment? So it’s all very hypothetical based on the very the conversation, we’re very clear, it’s not a commitment to funding, but the majority of the time because we’re the third party outside person who is not putting a pledge card in front of them, asking them to sign it in this conversation, they’ll give us that range and sometimes it’s pretty broad within appropriate reason based on questions the interview you may still have. But it helps us to know both for those individuals and also for some industry and community subsets of peers where we might expect to be able to find the, for the campaign

[00:14:39.40] spk_0:
when you ask who might be at this, this top level, the 15% of the goal, do people ever say? Oh, I could do that

[00:14:41.93] spk_2:
in some cases? Yes. Does that happen a great way to identify a potential?

[00:14:48.03] spk_0:
Yeah. I mean, if they self identify, yeah. Say there’s no better way but that, that happens. People say, oh, I could do that. Yeah.

[00:15:48.57] spk_2:
Yeah. And especially when you’re talking buildings and you’re talking about naming opportunities, which we would of course address in a feasibility study. If there is a building in play, you get to have a whole another set of conversation to follow down of what might be more most appealing in terms of naming this facility to honor the memory of your mother or whoever the case may be. Now those are confidential conversations. So we’re using that to inform strategy moving on down the line in the campaign. Uh But we do not share that information. So we assure them that they’re never gonna see a report that says Bob and Susie really want to be the lead pledge and name the whole facility. We, we still work through the process, honor the reality that they may have other things they need to vet out and validate before they’re ready to finalize that commitment. But we’ve got a pretty good idea from that conversation, how we would want to approach them when in the campaign timeline, we might want to approach them and even what leaders would be most influential to garnering their pledge because we also asked them who they think would be the best leaders.

[00:16:37.22] spk_1:
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[00:17:19.90] spk_0:
Now back to feasibility studies. What why and how? Okay. Very interesting. So if you’re, if you’re a client, the non profit asks, well, who is it that stepped up? What makes you so confident uh that we can get this? We have a very good prospect for this 15% leadership gift. And who are they? You, you, you can’t say it’s Bob and Susie. Uh

[00:18:34.56] spk_2:
We don’t know, we probably could, we choose not to. Um because it, it is one of those factors that helps ensure that we’re getting the most candid and direct feedback out of those interviews. Uh What we do provide is a perspective of we’re highly confident that these folks should be considered in this range of potential investment or we believe based on prior conversations, this family could be a great naming target. Most of the time, tony with a nonprofit that’s highly connected and engaged with their constituents. They’ve already got a pretty good idea of who those folks are. So it’s not common that we get a complete surprise out of that and more often than not, we’re going into those interviews, uh sort of ferreting out. We think this person could have interest in naming a facility or, or stepping up and taking a key leadership role. So prior to even getting into interviews, we’ve gone back and forth several rounds with the list of interviewees getting all the background information on all the perspective from our client. What’s their past giving history look like and so forth? So we’ve got a pretty good starting point that we’re, we’re strategically approaching those conversations and when we find that potential lead pledge that we weren’t expecting, we’re thrilled. But, but most of the time we’ve got a pretty good idea where those need to come from before we even start the interviews.

[00:19:23.12] spk_0:
This sounds very much like an art. I mean, these, these face to face interviews or whatever zoom or, you know, however they’re done. But these interviews, it sounds like you get one shot, have a serious conversation with a donor or an individual donor or foundation or maybe it’s a couple, you know, it’s got to be it just sounds like an art. I mean, you got to be organized, you have to have the story complete. I think, I don’t know, it looks bad. I think if you come back and, well, you might say we have some follow up questions, I guess I could see that. But it seems to me you get one shot to do it really well.

[00:20:28.03] spk_2:
Yeah. And you’re exactly right. Tony. Most of these folks don’t have hours and hours of time that they want to give over a number of weeks or months to have following. So we’re very strategic. We developed a questionnaire that we use for each client and some of those questions are our standards. Some of those are obviously very unique to the client situation. But we’ve also got a team of consultants, most of whom are former uh sea level nonprofit executives. And so there’s a lot of intuition that comes into play here of if somebody says something about one initiative and a program of work that makes some interest, we may chase that thought a little bit more, uh We may push a little bit harder for what we would call the financial indication in some interviews and other places we may back off. So there’s a lot of nuance in how those conversations

[00:20:31.03] spk_0:
play out. All right. So let’s, let’s keep pulling on this thread about what you’re gonna get out of it, the, the value, why, why do it

[00:21:46.55] spk_2:
so the, if you want to think about value in terms of a simple deliverable, uh We’re gonna prepare what we call an opportunity, analysis report and recommendations and that’s gonna give um the objective responses that we collect did some quantitative, some qualitative, we’re gonna analyze those. We’re gonna give you perspective on the trends in the feedback that we got. And then it’s gonna give specific recommendations on next steps. Very, very rarely. Tony. Is that next step? A cold and hard? No, go on a campaign. Sometimes it is a bad time for an organization to step into a campaign. Most of the time there is specific work to be done to prepare for a campaign or we’re going into a campaign pretty swiftly. Some of that is the shelf life on these reports. We think of it about a 92 120 day times fans. Um The, uh we know from the pack last few years, a lot can change in three months. So sitting and waiting and considering, should we go forward? Should we not on the side of a non profit can be risky in some

[00:21:57.51] spk_0:
cases. Let me ask you what, what might some of that work be that has to be done first? If it’s not a, it’s not a hard, let’s go. We’re 100% or where you can never be. 100% were 95% confident. But if you’re not at that point, what might some of that work be that needs to be done first.

[00:23:57.83] spk_2:
So generally, it’s gonna fall into one of three specific subsets that we focus on. And we’ve got a principle we talked about it convergent called Asking Rights and Asking rights is the intersection of your nonprofits credibility. Uh The clarity of the outcomes that it delivers through the work that it does not the outputs or the activity, but the true bottom line impact and then fundraising skill. So we’re gonna look at those three dynamics through the interviews and we may come out of a feasibility study process and say your credibility is not quite where it needs to be. And so we need to take some focused time to cultivate messaging, to engage your constituency, get the right leaders committed, maybe do some board work to get them ready to step in and be active. Sometimes this can take place in the foundational phase of a capital campaign. Sometimes it takes a little bit more time on the outcome side. Generally, we’re gonna address this through something we call program refinement early in a campaign engagement where we’re taking that draft plan from the study were sharpening it up. We’re answering the questions that we heard, adding some specificity and really, really working on developing what we call an organizational value proposition, which is how we would convey the the true outcomes and economic value that whatever the nonprofit is we’re working with is delivering in their community. Uh And then the last piece is the fundraising skills. So in some cases, we’ve got a great plan, we’ve got the right outcomes. But the fun fundraising infrastructure to go out and execute on the campaign is just not there. And so one of the common engagements that we work with clients on in that space is a multi month resource development strategy engagement where we’re addressing and building out some of those fundraising infrastructure points so that when the time does get there to turn on a capital campaign, the organization is ready to move forward

[00:24:28.21] spk_0:
smoothly. Meanwhile, though the clock is ticking on the value of the the study, you said what you said 9200 and 20 days is that I don’t mean to put words in your mouth. Is that right?

[00:24:34.82] spk_2:
That so

[00:24:51.09] spk_0:
three, so 3 to 4 months, you see uh after that, the landscape could have changed from the conversations that you had time is ticking while you’re trying to do this sort of fundraising infrastructure work. That’s

[00:25:27.40] spk_2:
right. So if we end up with a longer term engagement, uh that, that were involved in what we’re gonna do is maintain the reference points to know what factors we need to see, shift to be prepared for moving into a campaign. If we get beyond that horizon, we’ve got the perspective from the critical interviews that we conducted in the study and we would just roll what we call some re interviews into the early stages of the capital campaign to get some re validation and affirmation. One of those findings adjusted and that’s usually somewhere in the neighborhood of, you know, 6 to 10, maybe 12 key conversations. And once we validate yet, we still got the right leaders, we still have the affirmed support of some of those lead prospective donors or investors. Then we’re confident to move forward with the rest of the recommendations as we had previously

[00:25:48.10] spk_0:
identified. Okay. Okay. Anything else on the value proposition part, what we’re going to get out of this study? Why we’re doing it?

[00:26:13.92] spk_2:
Yeah, the, the last big pieces that campaign strategy and timeline. So we’re gonna give specific recommendations on the scope of campaign. What we believe a high to low feasible goal range is gonna be the number of months that we believe it’s going to take you to manage a campaign. Uh And then if that client is interested in working with us, we’re also recommending the level of campaign management or council from our side that we believe would be most conducive to their success, given their community size, size of their organization and staff and so forth.

[00:27:03.95] spk_0:
So now we have this, we have this report, I guess it’s, it’s also typically a presentation to the board and the C Suite leadership imagine, but also written report. Um Now then folks can take that report and go off and I don’t know, try they can try to try the campaign on their own. I’m sure they’re free to engage convergent, which, which you would love, you’d love to do that work. Uh, or they can do, they could hire some other firm, I guess.

[00:27:06.81] spk_2:
Right. Yeah, that’s right. So, every now and then we will do a campaign where another firm did a study. It’s not all that common and vice versa. It’s not all that common that we would do a study and another firm would come in and manage a campaign just because you can imagine there’s such a depth of institutional knowledge and connectivity that comes

[00:27:38.66] spk_0:
connection. You had somebody else did the interviews and now you’re executing, you’re going back and getting serious about soliciting volunteers, leadership soliciting gifts, but you don’t have the, you don’t have the connection. That’s right.

[00:28:27.79] spk_2:
Right. All right, you do get engaged periodically with an organization that’s got a strong development staff. We’ve got a few repeat clients in this vote. They are prepared to and understand what is involved in going out and raising the money. But they always want third party objective feedback out of the feasibility study. So they’re getting perspective on how do we do over the past X number of years in communicating with our constituents. How is our leadership seen in the community? Who would be the right leaders is the goal feasible? Now again, we’re not divulging the specific feedback from interviewees in these engagements, but we still say, hey, yes, we, we believe this goal range is a pro for you to pursue uh and so on and so forth. But they’re doing that based on aggregate data. Whereas if were retained to manage a campaign, we have the benefit of all of that very specific and nuanced feedback from interviews that our team members would draw on throughout the campaign to, to guide strategy and next steps with, with the different prospects that we may have interviewed.

[00:29:18.23] spk_0:
Okay. Okay. Um So let’s, let’s stick with, you know, I want to the nuts and bolts of this, of this uh feasibility study. Um How do we, who schedules the, who schedules the meetings? Is that, is that the nonprofits responsibility? Now, we’ve got this list of, you said, typically, I think 50 to 65 interviews. Um you know, who’s who, what’s the mechanics of moving forward? Yeah.

[00:30:33.89] spk_2:
So we will have on average between 55 65 interviews that’s gonna come from a list of normally around 120 or so interviewees. We know we’re not gonna schedule everybody we want to meet with, but we want to get critical mass of feedback. So we start with a list expecting some folks won’t be available. What we have found a over time and time continues to affirm a schedule er, from the nonprofit organization is far more successful in securing these interviews, especially with your higher influence, higher capacity interviewees. Just because it’s a name and a and a number or an email address that they recognize the, the email from convergent non profit solution is not incredibly likely to get a response when asking for a meeting. If any, if anyone’s like me, they get a number of those emails every day from somebody uh selling wares or offering something. And so we want to build from a place of strength in the scheduling. So we start with a representative of the organization. Usually we give about a two week lead time for scheduling and then our average feasibility study is going conduct interviews over a three week period. That person may have a little bit of scheduling work to do over the first couple of weeks, just filling in the gaps. But typically that, that schedule, er, is 2.5, 3 weeks ish of their time making some phone calls and following up on emails.

[00:31:02.20] spk_0:
And what are they asking folks to participate in? Uh, you were, the insiders are calling it a feasibility study or you even have a different phrase that you call it uh

[00:31:03.56] spk_2:
opportunity,

[00:31:04.81] spk_0:
opportunity analysis. But what are we using for? Our, our interviewees are potential interviewees? What are we calling it? What are we, what are we saying? We’re asking them to agree

[00:32:12.93] spk_2:
to, we send a letter over the signatures of a few key leaders that are affiliated with the organization explaining why we are there that we absolutely not asking for funding. We’re seeking candid confidential feedback on the proposed plan that is attached to that letter. So we’re giving them an opportunity to see what we want to talk about before the meeting. Uh Partly so they know, but also so they’ve had an opportunity to digest it and come up with questions before we walk into the room and we tell them it’s a feasibility study. It’s a vetting of a potential campaign that it would be unwise for the organization to go forward apart from the feedback of these key valued stakeholders and constituents. And so that information goes out to everyone on the interview list. We have some cases where for, for sensitive information in the program of work. Uh the client that we would work with might not send out the full plan until someone actually schedules an interview. We have online cloud based scheduling system that we use. So all of that is automated and simple. So not a lot of extra work there. But we want uh we want the interviewees to have perspective well, before we walk in the room because it’s gonna help us get the strongest feedback.

[00:33:45.25] spk_0:
It’s time for Tony’s take to thank you, Classy. Their blog post is 17 podcasts for nonprofits you need on your radar, non profit radio. That’s this show is there number five, it would be my pleasure to name the others, but there are 16 of them. You wouldn’t remember them all. And that wouldn’t be fair to the ones that you don’t retain. Imagine that I’m not gonna let that happen to my fellow podcasters. Well, I’m not going to allow it. So there’s really only one show you need to know this one. Tony-martignetti non profit radio. The post with the full list is on the blog at classy dot org. Classy. Thank you very, very much. That is Tony’s take two. We’ve got Boo koo, but loads more time for feasibility studies. What why and how with Brian Abernathy, they’re, they’re being asked to meet with someone outside the organization, right? That you, they’re, they’re being asked to meet with someone from convergent.

[00:34:08.09] spk_2:
That’s correct. And we identify that person even in that letter, uh you will be getting a call from so and so at the nonprofit organization to schedule a time for you to meet with Brian from Convergent for 45 minutes to an hour at a time of your convenience. So pretty, pretty clear all the way through. So they don’t think uh the executive director of the nonprofit is coming to meet with them and then it’s this outside consultant and they’re caught off guard or what have you,

[00:34:23.64] spk_0:
you prefer to do these in person or is zoom a suitable substitute?

[00:34:29.58] spk_2:
Zoom. Zoom has become a suitable substitute for a lot of things. I

[00:34:33.59] spk_0:
don’t know a necessity, right?

[00:35:20.41] spk_2:
But we still do the vast majority of our interviews in person and most of that is the opportunity to cultivate relationship when we meet with someone in their home or in their office or wherever it may be, you know, just the, the fundraising experience of walking in and seeing things in their office to be able to draw some personal connections. If that’s someone uh that we’re interviewing is 34 months later being sat down with by the same consultant to solicit a pledge. We walk in with that much more relational credibility and equity that we can leverage on behalf of our clients. So we love to do in person. That’s always our recommendation. But we, we absolutely are still doing some zoom interviews and in some cases, that’s just the most functional. We’ve, we’ve worked with some higher ed clients that have donors all over the country. And so in person is just not realistic and zoom allows us to do that. Uh And what we sacrifice in terms of not getting that uh in person sit down sort of warm fuzzy feel is certainly not detrimental to the results that we get in the final.

[00:36:28.17] spk_0:
But you prefer the in person. I always, I always prefer in person meetings with, you know, for me, I’m talking to planned giving prospects are playing, giving donors doing stewardship. But you know, there’s just nothing like seeing pictures of grandchildren, a picture of a sailboat awards from their business, whatever brother photographs there might be. I mean, there’s just a wealth of questions and you know, you can ask folks about to try to build a foundation with people and some of it, you know, may end up, you know, see pictures of yachts in the Caribbean or a yacht in the Caribbean. You know, that, that may be indicative of some, some potential potential giving that you maybe didn’t know about. Uh there’s just so much in someone’s home or office, but even just drawing, just like I said, just drawing a foundation for a relationship asking about the pictures, those Children, grandchildren, you know, etcetera. So yeah,

[00:37:13.30] spk_2:
and these days, the in person meetings are the ones that stand out in our memories, right? Where you’re like me all the time. But the so and so came by sat in my office or my living room, we spent time together. Those are now very much inflection points in terms of our interpersonal reactions are interpersonal interactions. And so that helps uh sort of entrance that conversation in the mind of the interviewee as well, which is a benefit when we get to a campaign because we want to come back and build on that prior conversation. Yeah,

[00:37:30.27] spk_0:
just have a warmer foundation to the relationship if it’s, if it’s not virtual, if it’s in person. What about meals? You like? Uh I like to, I like to, but I may have a different purpose. I’m not doing feasibility studies, but I happen to like to meet prospects and donors over meals is that, is that maybe not so suitable for a feasibility study?

[00:37:52.05] spk_2:
Yeah. We specifically tried to avoid meals and places for these conversations and some of it is we want to hear really candid feedback and we want to hear it about the organization we’re working with. We want to hear it about, as I mentioned a few moments ago. Who do you think could be that

[00:38:03.33] spk_0:
other people? Right. Right. The other person might be sitting two tables away. Yeah. Right.

[00:38:35.84] spk_2:
That’s right. That’s right. So it makes it a little bit easier to get the type of feedback we want. When we’re in a quiet private setting, we had clients who have said, hey, we’ve got a conference room right here in the office. We can do all the interviews in the office. And certainly that’s, that’s not the worst scenario. What we don’t want is somebody weird. Well, gosh, the executive director’s office is on the other side of this wall. I don’t want them to hear some of my true thoughts. So I just won’t share those things. So we, we try to always go to the interviewee so that we’re sitting down in, in their turf. So to say

[00:39:02.67] spk_0:
okay. And then, uh you have a conversation, right? You’re, you’re building that foundational relationship because hopefully you’ll, you’ll be embarking on a campaign with this non profit. Any bad story, like any war story, you ever get thrown out of someone’s home or office. Um I hope not. But if you did, I want to know if you did, I want to hear about it if you got thrown out.

[00:41:02.02] spk_2:
So you always get folks that have some sort of other unique local agenda or organization that they’ve got a stronger affinity for. And you hear a, well, this is, this is good but this other organization is, it’s really getting great work done. So, those are pretty commonplace. Um I had one that is sort of my favorite feasibility study. Worst story that, that really undergirds the importance of that fundraising skill that I talked about earlier. I walked into a feasibility interview. Uh The gentleman that I was gonna interview was ready. He was right there as I walked in, he had the draft program of work in front of him. So I’m thinking great. He read it, he’s ready to go and he pulls out another piece of paper and he says, I’m really glad that you’re here because uh five years ago, I supported this organization in a prior campaign. And this is the invoice for my last payment, which I’ll be sending off later this week. And then he held up that program of work. And he said this is the only other information I’ve received in five years is this proposed program of work. So I’ll be sitting this one out, but I appreciate your coming by to hear my thoughts and I didn’t get my questionnaire out. I thank you, I’ll be sure to convey your thoughts appropriately. Uh And, and that was the end of the interview. It was pretty quick, but that just goes to undergird tony, that all that we’re doing in nonprofits is setting the stage for the next opportunity. So you may not have a capital campaign in the next two years. But the things that an organization is doing today are laying the foundational building blocks so that they can be successful whenever that capital campaign or major funding initiative for an annual campaign you’re in, you can swap out the, the avenue. But that, that communication and relationship cultivation is absolutely critical. And

[00:41:30.92] spk_0:
the stewardship that follows. That’s right. He sounds like he made a five year, a five year pledge. He was just about to send his fifth pledge payment, happy to do it. But the stewardship was awful and all he got was the next funding plan. But he, he set

[00:41:49.98] spk_2:
you up very valid reasons for that organization and its leadership. But, but that, that individual didn’t care if there was a valid reason. His perception was the reality that he was working from. Um, and, and learning those things is good. Sometimes it’s painful to learn those things. But again, I would say that’s a value of a feasibility study as you get some of that inside perspective you otherwise might not

[00:42:30.47] spk_0:
have. Oh, absolutely. You know, you can’t count on that guy. He’s not he’s not gonna be your volunteer. He’s not gonna be your honorary chair. That’s right. It’s not gonna be any kind of volunteer and he’s not gonna give. So that is valuable to know because they probably thought exactly the opposite because he made a five year pledge to the previous campaign. So they probably thought he was a very, very good prospect for this campaign, but they did not do a good job at stewardship. So he’s sitting it out. I do note though that he set you up. He wanted to tell you this face to face. He didn’t want to do it by email. He didn’t say have Mr Abernathy call me an anti before he arranges the, before we meet Mr Abernathy called me. Didn’t, didn’t offer that. He, he wanted to tell it to your face to face.

[00:43:04.01] spk_2:
That’s right. He was going to schedule the meeting right after and you know, I can’t even, it’s probably not fair to presume intent or motive, but there’s a little bit of uh giving you the level of interaction that I didn’t get. Right. Nobody came by to talk to me, but you’re here now. And so I’m gonna tell you face in my perspective, it conveyed the seriousness of his thoughts. It’s really easy to ignore an email. It’s really easy to just say no, thanks. Don’t have time to meet with you. But it appropriately conveyed how, how significant it was to him that he had not been communicated with

[00:43:25.22] spk_0:
stewardship, stewardship. There’s no chance of trying to resurrect that relationship. And then maybe in the midst of the campaign, I mean, the, the CEO would have to be very humble and humble and apologetic, but maybe it’s worth exploring.

[00:44:55.96] spk_2:
Yeah, that’s one of those spots where you look at. Okay. Presuming you have the information available who connected with this individual last time. What was the process by which they were cultivated and solicited? What’s their prior other engagement with the organization? And sometimes tony, I’ve had feasibility interviewees tell me we might give a very nominal amount to this and I would have no interest in a leadership role because I’ve got my business to run and I’ve got these other things going on, but then you go back to them with the right person and they’re your campaign chair, right? I’ve literally seen that in that specific instance, play out in a campaign. And so it goes to show that just because someone says yes or no in one of these conversations does not mean that’s their final answer. And, and again, some of that is in the feasibility study, the value of an outside consultant is nobody’s afraid to tell them the truth. They don’t know them, they don’t have any local affiliate e affiliation. And so they’re just talking objectively about a program of work and collecting information when you get into a campaign, what you want is the exact opposite. You want relationship, you want influence and you pair the strategy and the perspective of a consultant with someone with local relationship and influence and you go back, you can change the response that you get very readily in many cases.

[00:45:16.28] spk_0:
So I’m not so naive. I mean, it’s, it’s possible to resurrect even the guy who says,

[00:45:24.89] spk_2:
but he

[00:46:56.46] spk_0:
held firm. But I would try if I was the CEO I would try and then if he’s not gonna meet me or, you know, he’s dismissive of the, you know, then of course, you can’t go any further. I’m not suggesting go any further, but it’s worth a try. I think, you know, I’m of the mind that if he didn’t care, I know we’re pulling on this one thread, but you picked a very valuable, that’s a really valuable outlier in your experience. He did care enough to tell you why he didn’t. He didn’t just do the things that you suggested would have been much easier, ignored the phone call, ignore the email just, you know, and then, and just blow the whole thing off. He did take the time to tell the organization that they messed up the relationship with him in so many, in so many words. So my belief is if people are willing to tell you that you’ve messed up, they, they still love you just not as much as they did when they made the five year pledge from the previous campaign. They don’t love you as much, but they do still have an affinity. They want you to know that you screwed it up. So, I, I see some, I see some potential but, and you’re saying I’m not 100% naive and at least trying to explore it. I’m optimistic. I have a glass is half full. What else can you tell us about the mechanics of, you’ve got these 55 to 65 interviews? You said you don’t do them over like three weeks. Obviously, you need some time to prepare your report. Do all you have multiple, I guess you have multiple interviewers, then how do you, how do you sort of coalesced the opinions of multiple interviewers?

[00:49:13.19] spk_2:
Yeah. So we’ve got some data collection and analysis tools that we use internally, uh that we come out from a couple of angles. So typically we would have one dedicated consultant who is running through the entire feasibility study process. And in a lot of cases, another of our senior team members is going to come on site for 23 days to, to join some interviews. What we want is a couple of different set of eyes on things. Um And then we come back out of those are our team member who’s been face to face with. Folks is telling us sort of the, the nuance of I heard these trends in conversation and these things don’t bear out in the numbers which are readily evolving day by day as we complete interviews. So we’re watching those trends as things move forward. But we’re able to say this, this number ticks here, but there’s, there’s a fact over here that’s meaningful, that’s not going to show up in the numbers. And so are are on the ground. Consultant is looking at that then a member of our client services leadership team is just blinders on looking at the data, right? Did we see a high enough level of interest in filling a leadership role? If we didn’t, we know there’s a hurdle, we’re gonna have to address do the completely objective numbers of a number of potential high level investors. We say investors, not donors. Now does the number of potential high level prospects match with what we would want to see to know that we could go out there and you know the 300 Hall of Fame batting average and still have a suitable pool of lead investments. Uh Do the numbers of financial indications match up to what history has shown us, we need to see to validate the campaign goal. And then we come together as a team internally and compare all of those things and triangulate in on the positive factors, the challenging factors, we identify what we call X factors that are outside variables that no one could control. But we heard enough about this that if X Y and Z bro this direction, it could have an adverse impact on the campaign. And again, we can’t do anything about it, but we need to always be aware of it so that we’re not surprised if something happens to shift, whether that’s local economy. I mean, who knows what those things could be? But they pretty often will reveal themselves through our interviews

[00:49:38.54] spk_0:
and then it’s a delivery to the, to the board. I don’t know, do the board leaders get an advanced copy of the report and then it’s a delivery to the full board or everybody gets it released to them at the same time, how does, what’s the best way there?

[00:51:14.32] spk_2:
So generally, within about a week of completing our interviews, we’re going to jump on a call with the executive and maybe executive team for our client by depending on their preference and share our preliminary find. So this is yes, we believe a campaign is feasible or not. Here’s the goal amount that we believe is uh is feasible low to high range and here or any other unique variables that we want to get planted in your mind so that you can think through how would be best to present those to your board and other key leaders. That meeting is typically about three weeks or so after we complete the interviews, because it does take us a couple of 2, 2.5 weeks to get that report together and polished up and presentable. And then we would send it to our client executive and give them discretion as to how they would want to distribute it in some cases. They just want to share an executive summary. And so we’ve got that ready in others. They want us to present and then they want to share the report. So we’re pretty flexible on that. And that’s really because every organization is different. And so we don’t, that’s one of those spots that we don’t try to prescribe. You’ve got to send the whole report to the whole board before some boards would read it and then check out of the conversation in person. And you know, there’s all kinds of variables out there that we don’t try to over prescribe a method for, for how we would present. But we would step in and show them the details of the findings. Give them some of the candid feedback at a again aggregate level and share whatever our recommendations would be for next steps.

[00:51:34.26] spk_0:
That’s, that’s a feasibility study. And then they’ve got their 9200 and 20 days to make a decision.

[00:51:52.56] spk_2:
Yeah. And most of the time it’s uh it’s, there’s a campaign or follow on work, I should say most of the time, it’s a much quicker transition. We had a client recently that um it’s sort of still in this process. So, but they had a very specific piece of X factor outside variable that needed to have a clear decision before they would be well positioned to move into a campaign that happened to involve some public sector decisions that has played out over the course of about nine months. And it looks like now they’re gonna be ready to move towards that campaign.

[00:52:14.87] spk_0:
Okay. But now they’re now they’re nine months past the feasibility study. So there might need to be some follow up interviews.

[00:52:17.27] spk_2:
That’s right. We’ll schedule over the first month or so of the campaign. A handful of those re interviews, just rechecking bearings knowing that there’s no new surprises that may have crept up or identifying any new surprises and course correcting for how we would want to navigate those moving

[00:52:53.73] spk_0:
forward. You had mentioned foundations as interviewees, foundation staff are willing to, to take these kinds of meetings and make a broad, I mean, they can’t commit, they can’t commit because every decision is a decision of the board. But foundation staff or I guess it’s a program staff are willing to take this

[00:53:47.41] spk_2:
in varying cases. And so you hit a very specific point that we always monitor when there are foundations on our interview list is 99% of the time that foundation staff person is gonna say a grant is a decision of the board. Our grant guidelines are on the internet or invitation only or whatever the variables. But we typically can be pretty strategic in using an interview if we get it as a cultivation approach. So less of a tell us what the foundation would do and more of a, how would we best position this for success? Given your focus areas as a foundation and would your foundation rather lead the way and help us get out of the starting block strong or put us over the goal line at the other end of the campaign? And as you probably know very well, there are foundations that have very specific spots that they want to play in that process. And we need to know that in a campaign so that we’re not starting out thanking on a meaningful grant from a foundation when that foundation’s board would rather be making that grant. You know, when we’re 80 90% of the way to the goal already.

[00:54:31.92] spk_0:
And, and it could be a funder that’s funded the nonprofit in the past, they’re still not gonna commit to something they’re still going to defer to their board. But uh they, you can deepen the relationship in, in that case. Okay. All right, Brian, why don’t you just leave us with a little uh a little motivation about feasibility studies.

[00:56:15.09] spk_2:
The important thing with a feasibility study is I would say is getting it right. It’s not one of those things that you want to rush through, I would say to a non profit, it’s not something you really want to do on your own because you’re gonna miss some of that objective third party perspective. And that is such a valuable due diligence, a campaign, a capital campaign of a large scale and we’re typically testing multimillion dollar projects. It’s not one of those things that you want to risk swinging and missing. Uh knowing exactly what is out there in terms of the fund, ability of a plan, the amount of funding that’s there. You can save a lot of relational equity and as we talked about before credibility for an organization. So like I said, we will do feasibility studies where there is no interest in our doing a campaign uh and, and offer that perspective in that guidance. But it also we’re an organization recognizes, they don’t have the capacity for a campaign in terms of their internal staff is a just invaluable first step of counting the cost before you don’t go out and start to build that tower. So we’re no surprise big proponents of feasibility studies. We’ve talked a lot internally. Is there uh is there a way to get the same information out of a different process? This is one of those things we’ve tried every thought of innovation and how, how could we move faster? But the reality is from our experience, there is just not a better way to get the level of intelligence that a feasibility study provides and then be able to go into a capital campaign from a position of

[00:56:51.64] spk_0:
success. And plus there’s that relational foundation. Yeah, that, that, that’s so much that’s so much value to it as Well, building that building that relationship. All right. Thank you, Brian. Brian Abernathy, General Manager at Convergent non profit Solutions. The company is at Convergent non profit dot com and you’ll find Brian on linkedin. Brian. Thank you very much. Thanks so much, tony. My pleasure. Thanks for sharing next week, data driven storytelling with Julia Campbell. If you missed any part of this week’s show, I beseech you find it at tony-martignetti dot com.

[00:57:17.04] spk_1:
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[00:57:37.14] spk_0:
is Claire Meyerhoff shows. Social media is by Susan Chavez. Mark Silverman is our web guy and this music is by Scott Stein. Thank you for that affirmation. Scotty be with me next week for nonprofit radio. Big non profit ideas for the other 95% go out and be great.