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Okay. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host oh, i’m glad you’re with me this week i’d be forced to endure the pain of glass. Zoho farren, jill neuralgia, if i came to learn that you had missed this week’s show, mobile engagement are you finger is ceo of do something dot or ge and president of t m my agency she knows a lot about engaging thirteen to twenty five year olds via mobile and we’re not talking about aps also games for change. Any sample ward returns? We’ll continue the mobile conversation going into detail on gaming. She’s, our social media contributor and ceo of intend the non-profit technology network between the guests on tony’s take two i’m changing the show’s format a bit you probably already noticed and i’ll explain why were brought to you by rally bound peer-to-peer fund-raising and telephone bill reduction consulting tb rc getting your money back from phone bill errors and omissions. I’m very pleased to welcome our your finger back to the show in the studio this time i caught a remote last time. She’s the chief operating officer for do something dot or ge overseeing business development, finance and campaigns, she launched their teens for jeans campaign, which clothes half of all homeless children in the u s each year she’s also the founder and president of t m i a subsidiary of do something dot or ge that advises brands and organizations on young people, technology and social change. Ari’s on the board of care for the homeless on new york city non-profit she was named to the twenty twelve crane’s new york business list of forty under forty. And she was featured on that cover, probably showing her tongue ring, which i do not have. And i was just going to my first question are you finger? Welcome back. Thank you so much. Great to be here. There was a very poor, aka a little provocative picture. But it was terrific. Maybe made the made the cover of ah fortune. That was wonderful. I remember that. Uh, welcome back. Thank you so much, it’s. Wonderful pleasure to have you texting and the popularity of texting for for thirteen to twenty five year old. So this is for our audience that is interested in engaging the thirteen to twenty five year old audience ah, texting is critical for them. Texting is absolutely critical for young people. Obviously, this is a diverse age group, so you have some people who are texting more than others but the average young person. And so this is a teenager. A college student sends over one hundred text today, and the power users who are often female were often teenage girl are sending over five thousand text messages a month. Okay, so we’re relating to t m i you even you have brick and broken it down by gender. You know that girls and so and what? Our boys what’s what’s the average for boys if it’s five thousand for girls well, the averages in five thousand for girl power users. Yeah, the power users are over five thousand, but we see across the board that girl’s just do everything more they watch award shows more. They read magazines more. They volunteer more. I don’t know what boys doing. Okay, they’re chasing around the girls. We hope i wasn’t. Especially at thirteen. Fourteen. I was i was in. Well, maybe we’ll get to that. But i wasn’t chasing the girls. Anyway, and how about compared to email texting versus email? So we see the typical teenager actually doesn’t even use email every day, and if you look specifically at the open rates, the average text messages open ninety seven percent of the time by a young person email open rates you’re lucky if you get to twenty two percent for the general public, we see lots of young people who have smart phones. For instance, you probably couldn’t imagine not activating your email or your gmail on your smartphone, right? They don’t even activate it. They think it’s a waste of time, they’re not interested, you know, they might only use it to communicate with their school, their teachers, their parents if they’re in college, but they don’t see email is their main method of communication very interesting. Okay, what about i’m going to deviate a little bit now we’re going to go back to texting, definitely that’s where our conversation is and the games around that but twitter usage is that thirteen to twenty five how popular is that? Twitter users is actually growing in that demographic, so twitter started out as a technology that was used by twenty somethings in thirty somethings and teenagers didn’t pay any attention to it, and in the last year, teenagers have been finding twitter for the first time. Okay? And so they’re especially heavy users of young people who are really involved with celebrity musicians, etcetera, so you’ll see demi lovato’s followers, the robotics or justin bieber’s followers, the believers going crazy on twitter, the average sort of pop star could make something trend worldwide in a matter of minutes and about snapchat. Oh, teens love snapchat! Amy and i were a mean sample warden. I talked about this just maybe last time she was on or two times ago, very popular among teens, right? Yes. And i don’t think it’s worrisome everyone’s like oh, they’re sending, you know, sext messages. They’re taking all these risque photos. That’s actually not what we’re seeing that they’re using it for what teens often say is that a typical conversation that they have face to face with a friend? It goes away no one records known videotapes that known records it that’s what snapchat is it’s ephemeral, it’s not around forever. If they say something stupid if they look stupid there’s no record of it. So it mimics a conversation, not one that we’re having because we’re in front of microphones, but right it’s typical of your average conversation, it goes away exactly if i say something stupid right now. It’s online for well, nobody listens to this show anyway, so you have nothing to worry about money? Nobody listens, but for for other types of conversations, right? I mean, it’s goes away, and i think that’s part of the attraction of snapchat right, doesn’t hang around even if somebody doesn’t listen, it doesn’t doesn’t read a message. It goes away after thirty days, i think, yeah, everything they do. I mean, they have longer sponsored stories now for organizations you want to get involved. It sort of twenty four hours, but most things they go away. You know, if someone snaps a picture, you have a ten second window it’s, sort of that immediacy. And then it’s gone. And how do you come by all this information? About thirteen to twenty five year olds, mobile and and other online habits. So do something. Dot or ge has about two point five million members and our whole goal it do something is to activate them. So get them involved in homelessness, the environment, etcetera and so the lucky sort of data exhaust that we are able to use as we’re able to see when we sent out a snapchat versus if we, you know, sent out an email what’s the uptake. So actually, you mentioned teens for jeans at the top of the show, but that was the first campaign where we did a pretty rigorous sort of a b test, sending out text messages and emails to statistically similar groups. And we said, what is the uptake from those text messages versus those emails? And with teens for genes in particular, we saw forty times mohr engagement with those who he sent a text message to. There were forty times more likely to sign up for the campaign, and then we saw those groups were just is likely to follow through and donate jeans and be engaged for the long term. Okay, so you said that was your first test between email and texting. That was one of the first test that we did for a campaign that we were currently running. All right, and obviously i opening them, um thirteen, fourteen, fifteen year olds, what can they do? What can’t they dio? I think one of the problems is that people assume that they can’t do anything. And so i do something. We have rules, and our three rules are no money, no cars and no adults. So we never fund-raising from our young people. We don’t require an automobile, and we don’t say you have to ask your parentspermission. You have to ask your coach, your guidance counselor principle because teenagers think that they have strength, and i would tend to agree with them, and so there’s nothing. Stopping them from running a clothing drive to support the homeless, or running financial aid workshops in their school, or setting up a tutoring program. Those are all things that young people can do and have done to make a change in their community. So it’s anarchy absolutely. And that’s. Okay, it’s. Cool, it’s. Cool anarchy with with a purpose, right? I mean it’s. Not really an icky but it’s. Obviously, with the social purpose on, we’ve seen mohr and mohr that young people are excited about things with a social purpose. I think that, you know, in the past maybe it was something. That was looked down on, but we have seen a cultural shift where the captain of the football team, the head of the cheerleading squad, the so called cool people, whoever those might be there getting involved in social change and they have a purpose. And so is everyone else. Okay, now those those that category of categories of people you just rattled off the captain, the football team chilling squad. I didn’t know those folks, and i was i was on ava was audio visual aids, which was un affectionately called, gave me a, um i got my varsity letter in announcing, so i don’t know that population, but but we were involved, obviously, boy scouts. So that was that was my move toward social change. All right, let’s, let’s go out a little. It’ll take a little break and, of course, are you finger hangs with us and we’ve got some live listener love coming up, lots of new yorkers cool. So hang in there and we’ll keep talking about mobile engagement. 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Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent gotta live listener love, let’s start in the us this time. New bern, north carolina, new york, new york will start with you lots of new york, new york listeners cool, welcome live listener love there in japan, we’ve got kobe, tokyo and italian aggie, japan. Konichiwa! Are you let’s? Let’s continue our conversation. So you would like to see, of course, that there is a texting strategy as part of a multi channel engagement communication strategy? Absolutely. I think a lot of people are talking about oh, this is so terrible that all these teenagers or text messaging and what they’re trying to do is you get your head out of your phone like, look up, don’t text and that’s fantastic, but these teenagers are going to tax no matter what, so we might as well use the technology that they’re using toe activate them for good and do something has been incredibly successful with it, and i would love to see other, you know, not-for-profits that might not you have such a pulse on the youth audience be able to use this text messaging to activate their own demographics or perhaps reached new audiences that they didn’t they didn’t reach before and that’s part of the work of t m i t you mentioned you explain what do something is about what you talking about? T m i so over the past few years, we’ve been approached by several of our corporate partners from somewhere, not republic partners, and they asked us, you know, can you can you teach us about this technology? Can you teach us about the social media work that you do? We have these campaigns that we’d love to work with you on andi just saw that there was this great demand out in the marketplace for folks who were experts on young people and specifically activating them. And so this past june, we launched t m i, and so we use our expertise in teens, social change and technology, and we work with for-profit ce focusing on social change campaigns, agencies, non-profits and help them achieve their goals with all the expertise that do something has to offer on dh you you had said, of course, thirteen to twenty five that’s, a pretty broad range, thirteen year olds and fourteen year olds are very different than twenty foreign twenty five year olds, but you have data by by age, absolutely so they do something dahna graft demographic in particular has an average age of eighteen, so we’re pretty split. Half high school students have college students in just a few in the twenty three twenty four twenty five demo, but i think it’s important to remember not only our fourteen year olds and twenty four year olds different, but fourteen year olds are different. I think we often paint young people with a broad brush. It’s just not true. Some love celebrities, some hate them, some text all the time. Some are my sister who hates technology and doesn’t have a smartphone and sewed really treating this demographic as sort of diverse individual people will help you be able to reach them and really sort of assess your marketing strategies to do so. Okay, so let’s, talk a little about having a texting strategy as part of your engagement. What? Where do we start? Ah, goal. What? Where do we start? You start with using the mechanisms you already have to collect those cell phone numbers so you can actually communicate. With your membership through text, one interesting thing that we saw is that we used to just collect an email address. So sign up, tio, you know, be part of a do something campaign. Give us your email, get involved instead we said, ok, let’s, add a cellphone number let’s, give them the option of you know, you have to give us an e mail address, but we’ll make cellphone optional. We’ll just say, hey, if you want to give it to us, you can. We saw that seventy percent of young people who signed up with do something optionally gave us their cell phone number, and then when we texted out to them, they engaged with us. And so that was just a easy first way to test the waters if no one had signed up and we know our audience doesn’t want to have a mobile conversation with us, so you you get them where they already are. You’re going to that finding out where they are rather than where you’d like them to be. What channel you like to be on that’s so interesting that seventy percent gave up their cell number. I mean, i just think everybody forty and over wouldn’t would protects that like i don’t like email addresses were originally protected. You know why? Why would i think is free? And why should i give it away? My email address? I think people older are treating cell phones cell numbers that way. Certainly we see a readiness of young people who are more likely to give up their cell phone number, but i think also it’s an easy way to look at your demographic and see who are the most involved. If you ask people for information, the people who give you the most information, those air, probably your best advocates, your best brand ambassadors, and so you can also sort of sort the data and make sure you’re giving them sort of the highest level engagement where someone who just gives you an e mail address and not they’re regular address their cellphone number, this additional information, you know, that they’re involved, but not nearly as involved as the brand ambassador i’m thinking of. I think it was the same conference where i first met you and you were first on the show at nextgencharity i had the founder of idealised mihdhar on and he’s, the one i was talking about when email addresses first came out, people were reluctant to give them away. I think i’d better keep this to myself. Interesting. Okay. Um all right. So now we find people where they are. And again, this is for non-profits that want to engage thirteen to twenty five year olds. Not that may not very, very well not be. Ah, population, that you’re trying to a tractor that’s appropriate for you. It also by no means are we saying this fits all it’s, all charity? Sure. But if you are trying to engage that that group or a subset of it, okay, we know where they are now and how heavily there using it. How do we start to engage? One of the things that we have used text messages for is creating these mobile games. That is a way to both educate young people as well as activate them. And so we launched several of these mobile games throughout the year on issues we actually just launched one this week called would you rather that’s about financial literacy and it’s? A way? You know what young person wants to sign up? For a financial literacy campaign, you know, you’re not from new york, are you? I am really would you rather your so my hope everyone and my life makes fun of me because they say, i sound so snobbish, you know, i don’t know it’s not latto the part of the country no born and raised in the bronx west chaillou to new york, would you rather would you rather is the campaign also that’s an alternate name for the campaign? My husband is from queens, and he gives me, gives me guff it i don’t know how much is that? My whole family says they don’t know our awareness argast that’s, right? Everybody knows now. What was i translated? Thank you. Appreciate it. So would you rather it’s the least sexy topic possible? Teaching teens about personal finance? That’s not interesting and exciting. But we entered text messaging into this and we made it a game. So we said, you know, would you rather share a car with your grandma for a week or not? Shower for ten days like stupid, hilarious, funny thing has ways of saving money is exactly a za way to save money. We actually we did this with h and r block. They were really interested in teaching young people about personal finance, and they wanted to find an interesting way to do it. So he set up this game. Would you rather and have young people go through these scenarios? But the trick is that we pepper them with financial education tapes, and we asked them after they go through this, would you rather experience? Hey, do you want to tip about financial education? And last year we saw sixty four thousand young people opt in to get financial education tips and so it’s just a easy way to create sort of a scalable game that would be appropriate across the country, wherever you are. For young people to get excited about personal finance. I played one that you let metoo on bullying and i read about salmon. Alex on guy chose different options will explain, explain that one. So we looked at bullying as something that the press has a cz me and media have finally said is something that’s important in our young people’s lives and we talk to teenagers and they said yes, absolutely bullying is critically important aa lot. Of people are talking about cyberbullying being sort of the most important thing, but young people, they go to school, they see bowling in their everyday lives. And so we created a text experience called the bully text, and it walks a young person through the first day of school or first day back after the winter break, and you’re given scenarios and opportunities to step in. So if someone’s, you know, whispering to someone else and you should step in as a bully, you know what should you, d’oh? And we looked at the research and a lot of strategic partner organizations, and they said that’s actually, the number one thing that a young person can do to stop bullying is to step in and intervene in the situation. And so we wanted to teach young people here’s what happens when you intervene or if you don’t and you continue playing the bully text, you’ll see the negative consequences. Yes, i saw that i could either talk to the i was, and i was in a locker room scenario. Somebody was saying something unkind about another guy in the locker room, but he’d be checking us out and how? Gross, that is. And so i had the option to talk to the guy who made the unkind comment. Talk to the guy who had the comment made about him or walk or walk away. S o i tried some different options and i got a ride home if i talked teo, the guy who got bullied, but i believe i was turned down for a ride. I think i’ll take the bus if i walked away. Interesting. Now i also notice they were you could choose to be a boy or girl on guy chose the girl side. I was overlooked in to do that second time because i don’t want to be a middle aged guy girl. But i knew it was a text game. There’s only between me, it’s. Not like i was in a chat room or anything like that. Um, and then sew. But i saw the names or androgynous was still sam analysis for interesting. It was good was cool. Now good. I was going to say the great thing is we see that of the people who start the game. Ninety three percent finish it. So we know we’re doing okay. Job that. People want to continue his experience on and also people who finish our text games are four times as likely to go on to do another campaign with do something so we know that these are actually being internalized by these young people, and they’re going on to other on the ground experiences focussed on social change. I didn’t s o i fell in the seven percent i didn’t i didn’t keep going in the game. What would i have learned about bullying if i had? I pretty much stopped. I think it was the next day in class. I got one. So one scenario i had to take the bus home. Another scenario? I did a little differently. And i got a ride, i think from a girl nicole may have been nicky on de so what would i have learned about bullying if i had continued all the way through? Well, first of all, tony, you’re ruining our number so well, somebody’s gotta be in the minority. We’re okay with it. I just got a text. Is this from just do something? Just text me. That would be amazing. I set that up, okay? No. So we you actually, we’re almost done, so we make we set it up so that you are able to be given other opportune. Other resource is about bullying and then other opportunities to take action. And one thing that do something is doing is we’re creating many more mobile games that when someone finishes a mobile game, there’s always another one about a different topic, then go right into because maybe their preferred medium of communication is tex. And so we always wanna have something for them in their preferred mate mode of communication. I know that i could not participate and be the person who was being bullied. That was my as a member of gave me a that was typically rye was no, but there wasn’t there, and i didn’t have that option. No, i was a bystander or or a participant, but i wasn’t the one being bullied. Okay, you mentioned talking to teens in order to gather information about what they’re, what, what causes are on their minds, or that they may find interesting when you bring it to their attention. How do you how do you have those conversations with teens? So i think one thing that’s really important is that we both look at the data that we gather implicitly and also the explicit conversations that are having with young people. So once a year we do a national survey, and this is of do something membership and also non do something membership, and we ask young people one of the causes that are most important to you on we think that matters and you think that’s important. But if you compare that data with the data that we gain from our website, we have an action finder where you can choose the cause you’re you most want to take action on. And so, again, this is young people on their mobile phones or in their homes. No one’s looking at what they’re choosing, no one’s telling them they have to pick a certain cause and the big area of discrepancy is that when you ask someone they’ll say that they really want to take action around the troops and our own disasters, and then when you have people self select when no one’s watching the troops and disasters come out dead last oh my goodness! And so whether that’s good or bad, i don’t know, it’s just something to make sure that we’re aware of is that of course, when you’re talking to someone, their answers will change. So we try to use implicit and explicit data and compare them whenever possible. And then what did you find ranked hyre when ranked up at the top? When nobody was looking? What was hyre pretty consistently we’ve seen over the last few years is that there’s always the environment, education and poverty and education means very different things to different people. For young people, especially the low income areas, it means my school is bad, you know, i need to improve the ap classes, my teachers, etcetera for young people in rich areas, sometimes they’re talking about inequalities between other schools. Often they’re talking about paying for college. But again, those three causes poverty, education, the environment are always in the top three at least. For the last ten years and then there’s always sort of a cause of the moment, and right now, it’s bullying and we’ve seen bullying bia riel sort of had staying power for the last three years, as in that top five do you have demographic information to like, like income levels, family income levels? How do you arrive at that? S o we actually looked and we were very interested because we look to do some things most engaged city, and this is the young people who are more most likely to respond to our emails, respond to a text message, and we found out that our most engage city was mcallen, texas, which is a city that’s ninety seven percent hispanic, and it is actually the poorest metropolitan area in united states, and when was your most engaged community? Absolutely interesting. And so one of the reasons we saw was that the’s thes kids don’t have other opportunities to get involved in mcallen, texas, and so do something was a real lifeline for them that they were able to be involved in the things that were providing, but what we also saw was in places like mcallen, texas. Anything to do with family and health was very, very popular. R i heart, dad campaign that focus on getting your dad’s blood pressure checked through the roof in mcallen, texas. Thie environment way less important are summer scavenger hunt that it’s, about a rich variety of causes does not actually resonate well with hispanic demographic. And when we look in much more sort of white city is when we looked at provo when we looked at boston in those cities, the environment on this summer, specifically the summer scavenger hunt there was sort of a more lighthearted campaign. Those resonated the most talk about a call to action. So as we are advising non-profits about what they might including their in their texting plan. There’s always a call to action at the end of these thie end of each game. Wait, try as much as possible to make our calls to action simple. It has to be one thing. We’re not asking them to do too much. Certainly, if we have a call to action they completed, we can give them something else. But as much as possible, it should be something simple. That should be unique on something. That they can do without money, a car and adult. I wanted to let people know that they can play the bullion game that i played alex and sam. And i hope they do better than i did. Walking away from everything you can text bully to three, eight, three, eight, three. Bully to three, eight, three, eight, three. It’s fun. It actually it’s. Quite fun. Um, we have just a couple of minutes. All right, do something that work does not ask for minute. We have a minute. Does not ask for money. Why’s that you don’t ask for money because we don’t. We want young people’s time from the young people, you know, asking for money. Exactly way want them to donate their genes to play the bully tax to, you know, clean up their park. And so for us, we have you know where eighty percent corporate funded. So we have other ways that we fund to something. And we think that there’s plenty of other organizations who do ask for money and that’s. Fantastic. But we will leave it to them. And the person in charge of that aside after you is monisha panjwani absolutely shot. After him, because he’s, the one who reconnected us over the best because he was on the show and he was with tricia, neighbor from the alcoa foundation on dh, they talked about how do something an alcoa work together in the in the couple of a couple seconds we have left. What is it that you love about the work that you’re doing even was do something or t m i i mean, such a cop out, but the people, everyone, i’d do something in tm eyes, just passionate and excited and smart and, you know, i mean, i could almost, like sell cigarettes of children if i was working the smart people, not almost on guy, so i think that’s fantastic, and i’m also just reminded about the best parts of humanity. Every day i get to hear the stories of amazing fifteen year olds were doing great things instead of hearing all the bad things that they’re doing, so i get to believe in humanity. Are you finger is seo for do something dot or ge and founder and president of t m i you’ll find her on twitter at aria irene. Ari irene finger thank you. Very much for being on. Thanks so much, tony it’s been a pleasure. I would like to share a little information with you about some people who help us bring this show our our amazing sponsors who helped us bring amazing guests like aria finger rally bound supports the show. They make very simple, reliable peer-to-peer fund-raising campaigns possible, his friends asking friends to give to your cause as a non-profit radio listener, you can get a discount and people have been. People have been calling and talking to joe magee at rally bound i love that claimed a discount. Find out what rally bound can do for you in a peer-to-peer campaign. He had a job. Mcgee told me about a camp that had a one day campaign, andres nine thousand dollars in that day and that one actually was not around an event. Typically, when i’m talking about rally ban on talking about runs, walks, rides, races and they do a lot of those but doesn’t have to be an event, you can have a campaign it’s not event driven as that camp you know, lady did, and they raised night, as i said, nine thousand dollars in a day for not a large camp. You’ll find joe magee at rally bound dot com or just pick up the phone and talk to him, and he will answer your questions and help you set up your campaign. He’s at triple eight seven six seven nine o seven six and we are also sponsored by t b r c cost recovery that is telephone bill reduction consulting yourselfer been what’s. I’ve known him for over ten years. He’s going to look at your phone bills looking for errors, omissions, way above market pricing charges for things you didn’t ask for, and you’ve heard me say it in ninety percent of the time that he looks at phone bills, he finds mistakes. Phone companies are not so not so scrupulous, not so careful about their phone billings, and when he finds mistakes, he picks up the phone. He deals with the phone company if he doesn’t get your money back from those errors and omissions and things you didn’t pay for didn’t ask for but were charged for, then you don’t pay him, he doesn’t get money from the phone company. You don’t pay him, you’ll find him yourself. Rabinowitz at tbe rc dot com or two one to six double four, nine, triple xero i’m tightening up the show you probably noticed this week i changed the opening a bit because i want to syndicate the show on community radio non-profit radio and what it called low power fm stations or lp fm. Um, i used to recap last week’s show, and if you listen as i do to public radio, you’ll notice that nobody recaps last week’s show or the previous show if it was the previous day. So i don’t know how i got into that habit, but i broke it today. No need to remind you what you heard last week. I’m just going to talk about what you’re going to find this week. If you know of a community radio station in your neighborhood, in your area community, they go by the name, community, radio or non-profit radio or again, low power fm. If there’s one in your vicinity and you think this show should be on it for the help and support of charities small and midsize in your area, then i’d love to know about it. You can know he’s, get me on the facebook page or my blogged at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, thirty first of february, the fifth show of the year. Amy sample board you know, her she’s, the ceo of the non-profit technology network. And ten her most recent co authored book is social change any time everywhere about online multi-channel engagement, her block is amy sample, ward, dot or ge? And on twitter she’s at amy r s ward. Forgive me, i’m doing well, how are you? I’m very well to thank you for asking your down and used your down in houston. And you hear me? Ok, i’m calling in from a conference in houston today. I feel like i’m never in the same place twice when i call into the show. Well, your mobile you’re a sort after speaker. You’re at creating change, right? The g b t conference in houston? Yes, put on by the task force. It’s really unconference so far on dh. Houston is a great city. They’ve been means welcoming plenary had i feel like they would have had to, you know, send people away. So many people wanted to be part of welcoming all these attendees for thousand folks came for this conference to there, they’re home to the accused in the mayor. Welcome committee, folks. I mean, it was just a great a great start last evening to the conference, and if anyone is listening right now and here in he’s been, please come find jolene and i we have ten booths set up. Otherwise we’re in sessions and and all the rest, so definitely come find us. We don’t see anybody from houston. We have some we have. Ah, san antonio, texas. We could send latto over san antonio and also inglewood, california. Just gotta squeeze a little live listener lovin sorry. And of course, the podcast pleasantries. If you’re listening on the time shift, we love you too. Over nine thousand of you are you? You’re speaking there or you’re just staffing the booth. What are you doing? Yeah, we’re not speaking. We just wanted to come at the sponsor knowing that especially the conference means going for thirty years now. And so many of the folks coming to this conference are working at that kind of funny intersection that that often people feel maybe there aren’t very many resources for them. That interception of trying to work on a social change issue or campaign and then having having the technology to support it because sometimes there’s a big infrastructure it’s part of an organization, and then, you know, other folks were at the conference because there’s, just one person in their town that wants to lead a campaign, so making sure that everyone knows they have access to intends resource is i do really be using the best tools they can for whatever campaign they’re running. And how rare is it that you can meet the ceo at the booth right there on the exhibit floor. So a rare opportunity to seize it. Meet amy sample ward. If you are at creating changing in houston, she is there a t intend booth? Um, you were listening. I know on the phone anything you wanted, teo. Add to what are you had to say? No. I mean, i just wanted to call in because i felt like it was such such luck that we ended up kind of having topics to talk about that that dub tailed so nicely. So i just wanted to call in here. Here were you and aria had to say, i think. Do something. Is it hard at intend for us to not always call on do something whenever we think we’d love to have an organization, you know, talk about how they’ve done this thing that was innovative or this thing that had really great engagement, you know, do something and always the top of our list of organizations to call. So it’s it’s even more evident now that you’ve gotten to talk to her, we have her on the show, why they’re always at the top of our list. Amy, i’m here and i’m blushing. Thank you so much for all the kind words it’s so nice to hear. Yeah, i mean, i’m glad i went with in-kind route. You were very close, but we loved. And ten to so it’s. A mutual respect that’s, right? You did not know she is that she was still here listening? No that’s. Great. I would love it. I would love for her to get to join the rest of the conversation too. If she can hang out. I don’t. Are you? Can you stay? Sure. Okay. She sets her own schedule. Ceo you both do. Ceo seo so okay, that’s. Cool, but i would. I would say that this was not merely a coincidence that they worked out this way. The show is, you know, some planning does going to the show. Amy okay. That’s fair. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um, so, let’s, uh, we’re going to continue this and we’re talking about games, games for change. Um, amy, are you are you familiar with other organisations doing a lot in this area? Yeah. I mean, i think it’s great. You guys kind of ended close to the end of the first conversation. They’re talking about the the ap starring the text messaging campaign where you could really get in and and explore how to intervene in bullying situations and, you know, it’s, a great text message service, but it also is a game, you know, and the game mechanics are still included in there, too, people moving forward as well as actually help with behavior change and then larger ship in communities on dh. So to other side, to throw out to other examples so we could open up and be able to reference multiple things. The first one to run is in. Sorry, i just said, i’m sure ari doesn’t. Mind if you mentioned other non-profits doing well here? I want to hear that, so i couldn’t tell my game folks about him so they can learn you so well. So the first one is intriguing because it’s not necessarily a nonprofit organization in the normal sense that we’re thinking about this, but it is definitely a sign that putting out to your community an opportunity to help you with something can still be a game. It doesn’t always have to be just a call for someone to volunteer at the university of washington put together in association with they have a center for game science in the university from and their biochemistry department who are tackling really important things like aides said, we’re going to take us years to look at this data, or we can put it out to our community of people on the internet who are interested. And, you know, some of them may be really care about finding finding all kinds of medical solutions, and others maybe just want to play again. So they put out a games, basically, that that provided a snapshot of protein strains like protein structures, and the game was to try and find matches and things like that, and in ten days of, you know, people on the internet coming and playing this buy-in matching game, they actually found the solution to one of the protein structures that leads to the virus, so it doesn’t always just have to be, you know, fun for the sake of fun, just to keep people engaged in your mission. It can also be helping you reach that mission. That’s outstanding scientific research that’s cool, good exam, yeah, and then another one that people may have heard of just from it. So i’m dropping. Ben and folks, they’re interested in the show, tony half the sky trans media campaign means no going across different types of media hasn’t had a book, which probably many people have read has a film that goes along with it but also had this game and so the whole campaign hole movement it’s focused on, you know, alleviating repression of women all around the world and the game actually would just a facebook game. You played it inside of facebook and in in so doing, you know, you are taking these different actions and leading up to real world. Fund-raising riel world social action so you’re not it’s not keeping you in facebook that’s just where you’re kind of lod mean in and and quote unquote plane but it’s taking you out of facebook to really make these larger actions, they raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for the campaign to help interact direct ways. Amy, would you say the name of the organization again? I didn’t. Quick pace to scott guy tap tap of the sky over tap like tapping on tapping on a drum no half like knothole half oh, half the sky. Okay, did you get that? I’m sorry. Okay, it was just me half the sky. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Let’s, let’s, drill down a bit. So if somebody wanted teo start ah, game campaign or, you know, for engagement, where would you suggest they start? Amy? Well, i mean, i think these two examples are pretty large, you know, if it can be overwhelming to think we’re just going to start by writing a book and making a film and then created a dame like you don’t actually need to start that high level. I think it’s really about looking first at what campaign? Or what action you want people to take, and then just making sure you can fill that out with all of the game mechanics and there’s, not a ton, and to really launch a game like experience for a community, you just need a very clear challenge. What? What is it? You know, one of the rules of the game what’s the parameters here? How do people take actions? And that could be reinforced by accumulating points there? Rian, you know, those actions can be reinforced in all different ways, but the important part is that there are different actions waiting to take to play the game on that there’s ultimately some sort of prize and what’s really great about games games for special impact is that many people playing the game are interested in that prize being we’ve solved, you know, aids, it doesn’t have to be, and now we’re giving out amazon gift cards to everyone who reached one hundred points, you know, it doesn’t have to be like that. Many people are are participating for that for the shake of the game, you know, for the fun of getting teo use their brain for ten minutes matching up these protein images on so you don’t have to get hung up on finding a prize that’s huge monetary reward for an individual. But there needs to be some sort of clear, clear win that is coming at the end of the game. Are you guys spend a lot of time talking about games? What can you had about the mechanics? I think the most important thing is that all not-for-profits workers should be behavioral psychology experts and i just to echo exactly what amy’s saying anything you do, whether it’s a game or not, you can put game mechanics in you, khun see what people’s incentives are again? Intrinsic extrinsic motivation, whether it’s a real world prize or it’s a feeling all of these things are important in fund-raising in creating games or just making your making your membership engaged. And i loved how amy mentioned the word funds so many times. Yes, that’s. One of the amazing things that you could do for your members is make them have fun. We’re gonna take a break. We return. Amy and aria will stay with us, and we’ll keep talking about games for change. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oh, oppcoll! Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one three that’s to one to seven to one eight, one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is claire meyerhoff from the plan giving agency. If you have big dreams but a small budget, you have a home at tony martignetti non-profit radio. Welcome back, let’s. Go abroad for live listener love, seoul, south korea, on io haserot and more listeners from japan, kenichi awhile to everyone joining us knew in japan, also a spin toe, portugal. Welcome, i hope i pronounced that right spin, toe live, listener, love, espinho, speed home. I was just corrected. I was admonished a speed home. Let’s see, where do we go? Ok, let’s see amy, you you mentioned things like badges and points. And how does how does this work into let’s? Start with badges, but what’s a badge? And how does this work into our texting game engagement? Well, i would love to have aria weigh in on this, too, but, you know, badges they’re tricky because i think as an organization, when we start thinking about who we really want, you know, in bed from gaming mechanics in this campaign or in the program on and, you know, what can we do to really make this great? Soon as we start going into, like, strategy planning mode, we get further and further away from human road where we’re thinking about if we were actually playing this game and instead we’re just thinking about all of the things that we could dio, you know, on badges i’ve often seen used in that way where maybe in that staff room, when we were planning this game or this campaign, they sounded really great. And then you designed all of these cute little logo or something, and then your community is kind of like, well, you know i’m not interested in that logo. Why do i want that logo? You know? So i think that badges can work, you know? I’m not saying blatantly all badges are bad, but they have to be based on things, eh? That those community members wants on that they’re reflecting something related to your mission and why people are engaged with that, you know, to youth and has an example, we wouldn’t necessarily have a badge where it just shows, you know, this person has opened eighty five percent of our e mails, we really care about that data, that person probably doesn’t care, and they definitely wouldn’t want that as a badge, just like i read all event and emails. You who cares but a badge that says, for example, you know, i have spoken many times at the conference that’s a badge that’s helping them. I have visibility in the community, it’s still something weak we care about and we want to track but it’s actually a badge li they want tohave associating with them instead of just a number of maybe we could have created a badge about does that nuance makes sense? It does, but how? Do people use these badges? The fifty two year old in this conversation used to know what is it somebody would do with the badge that that is appropriate? Well, you usually usually badges or not, something you would necessarily use you achieved you, you are awarded that badge by taking that act. You’ve made it to thinking about it in a literal name. Since, you know you have made it to level three of the games, you’ve achieved the level three bags, just like it isn’t necessarily something that you would be, quote unquote, using it’s more something that shows up on your profile, say, or on your whatever went that you could use it, you could lift it because it’s it’s referencing what you have done in that community or what you’ve achieved. Okay, i understand, of course, and i see them on foursquare badgers all the time. All right, you know, five mexican restaurants in a month and things like that aria badges, badges in games. I mean, badges are the oldest trick in the book about fdr used the badge of the blue eagle to put in storefronts that were, you know, hiring people for less. Hours and more money so i think badges can absolutely be effective as long as people want them, you know, in that, you know example, storefronts, one of the badges because their customers could come in just like amy was saying, if you’re coming up with these ideas in a vacuum, they’re probably not going to work. So what i would say is just test them quickly and be ok if they fail and rip wth um, so if you test it out, no one likes them. You remove them, you tried it, but you’re done. Okay, how about points? And you mentioned points in passing to same, same same thing we don’t use points that do something because we just want to make sure that people don’t feel like they’re losing at social change. I think points can be extremely effective, you know, airline miles you’re leveling up to a gold level, whatever it might be, but we actually are scholarships now, instead of for the sort of young person who collected, you know, the most cans during their canned food drive. We actually give everyone an entry. Everyone who collects five cans gets an entry because we want to make sure that no one’s losing you were the lame assed social change do out there on dso sometimes points can khun make that problematic? Amy, you have anything more about points? Well, i would say that the last point there about, you know, no one wants to be the loser. And then ultimately, if someone has signed up with your organization, they’ve already done a lot more than most other people in the world to help you with your mission, right? They at least know who you are and they’ve signed up. You don’t necessarily want to set yourself up for that negative reinforcement to community members that they’re not doing enough you want to have hey, you could be doing more kind of attitude, and i think that also points to things where you see voting or even the mechanic of voting often organizations have found more success by allowing things to be summed up, you know, like raise this concern or you agree with this and not even including the option. Tio tio put the thumb down just because no one wants to log in and see this idea they proposed or this comment that he posted getting voted down, it’s less it’s, less upsetting it. Oh, just not many people have liked it versus people you know, one hundred people since since since negatively moved my comment down instead, it was just this one got a lot of thumbs up and this one had fewer. You know, just staying on the positive sign of whatever system you’re using. Badges, points, voting. Okay, that’s interesting. And i think of facebook where there is no thumb down for comments. Of course, aria, anything about voting? What do you think about the open down votes? I think people love voting. We just did this campaign called fed up, and young people took a picture there school lunch. And then they posted online. And, you know, they made captions like, you know, this was a poop burrito. Oh, are my lunch was whatever, and we let them vote. And in this case, we did let them vote, eat it or toss it. There wasn’t a negative connotation for the burghdoff elearning that’s a lunch, right? Exactly. But it was incredible. We got five hundred fifty thousand votes. We were blown away. So i think sometimes voting could be an incredibly powerful engagement tool. Yeah. And i think in that case, you know, the context of what people are voting on in the way that you framed it. Not as this is good or bad. You know, this is a vote yes or no on this person or comment or this idea it was bringing in a way that it’s almost more interesting to see if more people said we throw out off these meals, right? The idea is like, these lunches should be healthy, and they’re probably taking pictures, many of them london, that are healthy or at least are not balanced or whatever. Splitting voting in that case isn’t even really a thumbs up or thumbs down or a yes or no that’s a voting of like writer left. You know what? Fuck it do we put this in on dh again? Makes it super wide open for people to engage consistently throughout the campaign. There there almost moving things into those two two buckets, right instead of just well, there was mighty vote cast for the one. Yes, i wanted to place. You know me, i’m going to give you the last word. What what’s the point. Of all this gaming and engagement, well, i think the point is that for many organizations and tony, we talked about this every month. You know, there’s always this question if we don’t have a campaign going on, we’re not acting, you know, asking for money if we don’t have a petition when you didn’t sign, how do we keep people engaged? Well, you just add the simple game mechanics into your communications into your programs and services online. Keep them engaged, but giving them something to engage with instead of just running the campaign and then having static content. Amy sample ward is the ceo of inten non-profit technology network. You’ll find her on twitter at amy rs ward. Thank you very much, amy. Thanks, tony. Thanks. Sorry, empress. Staying? Absolutely. Yes. Sorry. Thank you very much. Next week, corporate coffers tap into corporate giving with linda lycee kowski and committee conned fab i i just love the alliteration you’ve probably noticed. Ah, jean takagi returns with advice for your board committees. Rally bound and telephone bill reduction consulting joe magee and yourself rabinowitz. They support the show. I hope you’ll support them. Please check them out. Rally bound. Dot com and t brc dot com. Our creative producer is clear. Meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is a line producer. Shows social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point. Oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Our music is by scott stein, also from brooklyn, with me next week for non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You e-giving think. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people hi, i’m ostomel role and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour eleven a m we’re gonna have fun shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a m on talking alternative dot com you’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. Time. Montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Told you.